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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Spat! The Musical
2007-09-22 07:06
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Music by Diamond Leung, Al Balderas, Tony Jackson, Dylan Hernandez and T.J. Simers

Lyrics by Grady Little, Ned Colletti, James Loney, Matt Kemp and Jeff Kent

Call Me Responsible
Everyone has their share of responsibility
I certainly do as the manager
I'm the one who makes the lineups.
I'm the one who pushes the buttons
And waits to see
If it's the right or wrong button
I'm as much responsible as any player we got out there.
I accept all responsibility
I did the best I could
But if I was a fan
I wouldn't blame them for being really upset
What with all the expectations here coming into this season
I think the lineup will be a little bit different this last week of the season

Losing Is For Losers
I know how much Jeff Kent
Wants to win
And hates to lose

I think he shares that frustration
That all of us feel at this point in time
There aren't many of us who don't feel it

If I wanted to clarify anything
I would've done it yesterday
Are there no reasons we lost?

The season is over
And I'm mad
Look around this clubhouse

Is there any sense of loss?
They don't get it.
There's no sense of failure in here

The Kids Are Alright
So basically the young guys don't want to win the game?
We're busting our (behinds)
We're used to winning
And we're not used to losing (in the minors)
If you want to put the blame on the younger guys
I guess you have someone to put the blame on

We're playing hurt
Our hearts are in it
We come to play every day
It's not about age
Everyone wants to win - young or old
I haven't played with anybody that doesn't care about winning

Who said he was a leader?
If you take the younger guys away
Do you have a team?

The younger guys
We work hard
We play hard
We're trying to make a name in the game for ourselves

The older guys
They've already made their names for themselves
We don't want to get that bad rap
That we don't want to win
Or we don't want to play hard
Because you won't make it far in this game

That's not just in baseball
That's in life
Definitely, things get misinterpreted
You really need to get to learn that person.
A lot of people don't want to take that time.
A lot of people are too lazy to do that.

Having fun is part of the game
If you came up here
And you were serious all the time
That's not fun.
Joking with your boys, that's fun
It helps you relax
You don't have to think of all the pressures
You think of just having fun
But we've been serious when we get between the white lines

Call Me Responsible (Interlude)
Everyone's got a piece of this
Including me (said the general manager)

Marriage
The results have put
A lot of people on edge
People are bound to speak out
People are bound to be
Frustrated

We've got a lot of people in there
That haven't been through this
At this time of the season
It's not a good thing
That you like to
Feel

It'll be fine
We'll keep going
But it's only human nature
That it will be a little bit different
In this last week of the season
Maybe we'll win a
Game

We just have a lot of people
Who haven't been through
This time of the season
Where you aren't still fighting
For something at the
End

It's not a good thing
There is a lot of frustration
And understandably so
But it's like anything else in life
You deal with it
We're going to keep
Going

In a lot of ways
I think it's a two-way street
It's like a marriage
For those who have successful marriages
That's a two-way street
Too

(Building cohesion) has been something
That in some ways could've been better
We'll do our best for it to be better
The next time the situation comes up
But I don't foresee it coming up like this in my life-
Time

Reprise
I think the lineup will be a little bit different this last week of the season I think the lineup will be a little bit different this last week of the season I think the lineup will be a little bit different this last week of the season I think the lineup will be a little bit different this last week of the season

Comments (257)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-22 07:47:48
1.   Bumsrap
That was fun Jon. I think Loney also said something like there were too few players in their prime to help bridge the gap between the older and younger players.

My favorite was "who said he was a leader" and...too lazy to get to know another person

Maybe this has already been said many times here but...A friend of mine called me last night and mentioned the San Bernardino Sun had an article that mentioned that Kent's comments were made after he got 550 atbats and his contract vested for 2008. So, maybe he has been waiting for a while to vent and not just overly frustrated after the sweep.

2007-09-22 07:48:36
2.   Johnny Nucleo
Funny post Jon. Spat spelled backwards is Taps. That would be a good title for this musical too.
2007-09-22 08:28:23
3.   Sam DC
Blame it on the rain that was falling, falling
Blame it on the stars that did shine at night
Whatever you do don't put the blame on you

Oh, sorry, I thought all the comments in this thread had to be song lyrics.

Hopefully, I can atone.

2007-09-22 08:32:17
4.   Suffering Bruin
Very engaging post. I can't believe I'm going to watch UCLA football today to distract my obsession with the Dodgers.

We live in strange times, folks. Strange, strange times.

2007-09-22 08:36:17
5.   Bob Timmermann
3
I know a hotline you can call.
2007-09-22 08:37:30
6.   Bob Timmermann
4
I can't believe I may go sit out in the rain at the Rose Bowl to watch UCLA play.

If it is raining tonight, UCLA will be fortunate to get 40,000 fans.

USC will still sell out.

2007-09-22 08:45:55
7.   Gen3Blue
I've actually gotten all my news about the Spat from DT. Its in some ways nice to be on the far coast when things fall apart and the media swarms in for the carcass.
I'm realizing how much more I enjoy the D's, win or lose when they are based on home grown players.
Normally I would not be the type to embrace a play for A-rod, especially with my "love" of Boras. But I realize we are in a unique position that would make it feasible. It's important to not build too much in the way of expectation, for there are many hurdles to clear, foremost the prob. that the Yanks and Boras take care of this before it happens.
2007-09-22 08:48:48
8.   Marty
Man is it nice to see some rain around here.

I thought Loney had the most interesting comment with the one about no one in their prime to bridge the gap.

I'm going to take the fan's right to assign blame when I don't know the whole story. I blame LuGo for fomenting all of this. He's the one who bitched all last year in Arizona about losing playing time. And he's the one who's been dropping comments for weeks about not playing enough, not being here next year, wanting to go somewhere to play all the time, etc.

If my torch hadn't gone out, I'd be at his gate right now.

2007-09-22 08:51:30
9.   immouch
Rain, rain, go away
Make Jeff Kent give up his pay

Ok, that's stupid. But it's short. In any case, who would've guessed the most mature guy on our team would be 23?

2007-09-22 09:08:19
10.   Bumsrap
If some way somehow the Dodgers didn't start the 2008 season with Kent, Gonzo, Nomar, Loaiza, Hendrickson, Hernandez, Saenz, Saenez, Hillenbrand, Wells, and Pierre I would be a happy camper depending on who took their places.

I am not suggesting all positions be filled by players under 25 years old. But if we look around MLB we see Colorado, Milwakee, and Arizona with a great core of kids and the Dodgers need to make a decision. One decision is making it clear that players at the end of their careers that come to the Dodgers are going to be role players and not core players. Only healthy players in the prime of their careers can earn core player status. Young players just entering their primes or on the verge of entering their primes could also become added as a core player.

2007-09-22 09:32:08
11.   Sam DC
The title of the post makes me thing of About a Boy.
2007-09-22 09:37:56
12.   Gen3Blue
Not much chatter today. There is no joy in Mudville.
2007-09-22 09:41:55
13.   Bob Timmermann
We could all discuss what we had for breakfast.
2007-09-22 09:47:34
14.   Who Is Karim Garcia
13 Frosted Flakes, Tylenol Cold, and OJ. And a healthy dose of Dodgers disappointment.
2007-09-22 09:50:28
15.   dzzrtRatt
10 One decision is making it clear that players at the end of their careers that come to the Dodgers are going to be role players and not core players. Only healthy players in the prime of their careers can earn core player status.

This is inimical to Ned Colletti's theory of baseball personnel. Assuming an older player is healthy and can produce numbers approaching what they produced in their prime, such a player is clearly preferable to a younger player. Lost production is more than made up for by the wisdom gained down through the years, because such wisdom can be distributed throughout the clubhouse, where, in Colletti's mind, pennants are won and lost. Three months ago, if you'd asked Colletti if there was anyone in the major leagues he'd rather have at second base than Jeff Kent, I'm certain his answer would have been, "No. He's a Hall of Famer. His credential are impeccable. I've got the best right here." Same with Nomar, except Colletti probably feels Nomar's injuries were the undoing of that move. But that's just bad luck, Ned thinks. A healthy Nomar, Kent and Gonzalez were poised to lead this team to the postseason, with Furcal and Pierre setting the table. Oh, youth will be served, you can bet your bippy! That young prodigy behind the plate plays like a veteran. We've set aside right field for all the young outfielders to get their chance -- even Loney, who's a great young talent, but let's be honest, he doesn't bring us what Nomar can. My only concern is third base. We're putting the whole franchise's future in the hands of an unproven young fellow, Wilson Betemit. People who say I don't take a chance on youth, we-he-hell, how do you explain Betemit? But I'm glad we have the versatile Ramon Martinez and the thoroughly professional Olmedo Saenz to step in if he can't hack it. Long-term, if need be, we can trade Loney to bring us a third baseman of the caliber of Luis, Nomar and Jeff, but I'm willing to take a flyer on young Wilson.

How did I ever think this team would finish higher than fourth???

2007-09-22 10:06:19
16.   oswald
i was at two dodger games this year with my brother (who has rejoined us, yay!), one in new york and one in san diego. at both games, he pointed out that every time there was an out, kent wouldn't throw the ball around the infield. he'd just throw it back to the pitcher. when kent was in the field, the infielders wouldn't gather at the mound. when was out of the game, they would gather at the mound.

i know chemistry issues are not very popular here, and that people believe that winning breeds chemistry, but there has to be something to this. there has to be something to the fact that in kent's three years as a dodger, two years are huge disappointments and the other kent missed significant time (in fact, the huge streak they went on last year started with kent out of the lineup). there has to be something to the notion that kent's surliness has a detrimental effect on this team.

i hope he's not back next season.

2007-09-22 10:18:01
17.   Bob Timmermann
Some of the interleague schedules are leaking out for next year. The Padres will have to play in New York and Cleveland.
2007-09-22 10:21:46
18.   Bob Timmermann
Differences between USC and UCLA fans.

My girlfriend is leaving for the Coliseum now. Kickoff is at 5 pm.

The UCLA kickoff is at 7:15 pm. I plan on getting dressed by 5.

2007-09-22 10:27:47
19.   underdog
I heard this bluesy musical will probably close before it reaches Broadway, alas.

Sure beats "Elephant Man The Musical" though.

8 "I thought Loney had the most interesting comment with the one about no one in their prime to bridge the gap." Definitely - he made a really good point.

A, say, Alex Rodriguez-type.

Alas.

Oh wait, we're not doing the "A" thing anymore.

Raining here, too, and I'm glad, even if it washed out soccer practice. We needed it, too.

2007-09-22 10:28:43
20.   underdog
19 The format of the post above was brought to you by Bill Plaschke.
2007-09-22 10:29:31
21.   Bob Timmermann
The Pirates are playing poorly against the Cubs too. Does Jim Tracy hold a grudge against someone in the Brewers organization?
2007-09-22 10:29:45
22.   Eric Stephen
18 I plan on getting dressed by 5

Posting in the nude today Bob?

2007-09-22 10:30:34
23.   Bob Timmermann
The sun is shining in the Pasadena area. Whether or not that will hold up and make Brookside Golf Course available for parking is still to be determined.
2007-09-22 10:31:28
24.   Bob Timmermann
22
I don't think anyone but Hugh Hefner can attend a sporting event wearing a robe and slippers.
2007-09-22 10:35:55
25.   Eric Stephen
As reported in today's Daily News by Tony Jackson:

" Minor awards: Infielder Chin-lung Hu, presently in the majors as a September callup, and right-hander James McDonald will be named today as the Dodgers' Organizational Player and Pitcher of the Year, respectively."

2007-09-22 10:37:46
26.   still bevens
That reminds me, I wonder how all the callups are perceiving this war of attrition between vets and young players. They've obviously played with many of the guys being called out and it makes you wonder whose side they would be taking.
2007-09-22 10:39:59
27.   Bob Timmermann
I didn't know I got ESPN-U as part of my cable package. There are even more college football games that only marginally interest me that are available to me.

Whom should I root for in the UVA-Georgia Tech tilt?

2007-09-22 10:41:16
28.   Eric Stephen
27 When in doubt, lean toward Mark Price's alma mater, GT. I always like Price for some reason.
2007-09-22 10:41:53
29.   Bob Timmermann
But Virginia is leading!
2007-09-22 10:59:49
30.   dzzrtRatt
California is playing today on the "Versus" channel.

Is this a real channel?

2007-09-22 11:09:47
31.   Bob Timmermann
30
It shows the NHL!

And bull riding.

Lots and lots and lots of bull riding.

2007-09-22 11:12:54
32.   Icaros
Jeff Kent is a cancer. He pulls this garbage every year the team doesn't make the playoffs. In 2005, it was the feud that got Bradley traded. He is not a team player. He doesn't care about what's best for the organization. He only cares about getting a ring (other than the 2002 loser's ring Colletti is so proud of) before he is forced to retire.

Now he looks around and sees these young players, who the Dodgers should be playing even more than they already are, and he's mad and jealous that they aren't as miserable as he is.

Loney, Kemp, et al shouldn't be joking around and having fun? They're young men realizing dreams of major-league success for the first time in their lives. They've spent years in the minors working hard to get here. I think it's been beautiful to watch, and I would hate for them to become pouty, unlikeable b-tards like Kent has always been.

Kent is a bitter old man who can't handle the fact that his time has almost passed. His little fit is nothing more than jealousy against the younger, more talented players with bright futures like he once had.

2007-09-22 11:13:48
33.   bigcpa
How's this for irony? The 23 year olds duke it out with the 39 year olds. We're fed the story that the age gap is wrecking the clubhouse. Meanwhile the guys most responsible for the dropoff in scoring from 2006 are 30-35 (Nomar, Pierre, Furcal).
2007-09-22 11:17:06
34.   Eric Stephen
32 He only cares about getting a ring

Isn't this a good thing? Look, I'll agree that Kent is a crabby jackass, but let's not denigrate his performance by painting him with the "old" brush. He has been our best hitter this season (I know Loney and Kemp have higher OPS, but it's a negligible difference).

2007-09-22 11:19:09
35.   Eric Stephen
33 You're right. The Dodgers' age Extremes have been their best performers. It will take More Than Words to bring this team down!
2007-09-22 11:20:31
36.   Bob Timmermann
I thought the players were supposed to want to win.
2007-09-22 11:21:55
37.   D4P
32
All a-BOARD!
2007-09-22 11:23:03
38.   D4P
I thought the players were supposed to want to win

The older you get, the more "wanting to win" seems to be defined as "wanting to be surrounded by a bunch of old people like yourself".

See, for example, Kent, Jeff, and Bonds, Barry.

2007-09-22 11:23:53
39.   underdog
32 I think I wanna start calling people "b-tards". I like that. If they're b-tarded, they'll just be confused.

Actually, thinking about Kent and what you wrote reminded me of this line they used to utter on Mystery Science Theater when there was a teenage character and a crotchety older character (not sure of the original source of this line); they'd voice the teenager: "Go to bed old man!"

"Go to bed old man!"

2007-09-22 11:23:59
40.   D4P
And Go, Lu. And possibly Mar, No.
2007-09-22 11:28:08
41.   Icaros
My point is not that Kent shouldn't care about winning, but that he only cares about winning for his own trophy case. He doesn't care about the future of the Dodgers. It wouldn't matter to him if the next ten years of good players were sent away for more old know-it-alls like himself.

This isn't about the season he's had, either. He's been very productive this year, statuesque defense aside, but are we sure he'll be as good next year? I'm not.

And I don't see why it means he cares more about winning than anyone else on the team just because he's a crabby little baby when things don't work out.

2007-09-22 11:28:47
42.   underdog
So who could we trade Kent to and who could we get back for him?
2007-09-22 11:31:14
43.   kngoworld
The guy, Kent, is frustrated, his biological clock is ticking louder and louder with each day and each loss. When the game ends and he is sitting in the clubhouse sulking because another season went down the drain, it bothers him to look across the room and see the young guys not sharring his dread. He probably glances over at Gonzo and sees him sulking also, but for another reason. Gonzo sulks because his production is down and he is slowly being replaced with younger talent.

It is easy to blame the younger players for not being cranky and upset after games because he is. He would be perfectly fine with walking into the clubhouse after a loss to a silent room, where everyone just reflects on their poor play over the course of the season. The only problem with that is that for the most part the young kids have done more then they have been asked of.

Kent is frustrated and he pointed his finger at the wrong people. When one is sulking it is easy to blame the cheery, although the cheery ones are not the problem.

2007-09-22 11:31:45
44.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I think Kent would be a good fit with the Mets.
2007-09-22 11:31:57
45.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Maybe we coult get Mota back.
2007-09-22 11:31:58
46.   Icaros
42

I'd send Kent and Bynum to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal.

2007-09-22 11:33:45
47.   Icaros
43

Exactly what I was trying to say, but nicer and more even-keel. Well done.

2007-09-22 11:36:04
48.   Eric Stephen
41 I don't personally like Kent, but I tend to take an Adam Smith view of the whole situation. Even if Kent wants to win for selfish reasons, his desire to win and play well still helps the team win.

I'm confident Kent will be in the top half of ML 2B in 2008. Even so, I wouldn't mind seeing the more occasional rest for him, with Abreu spelling him every so often at 2B (30+ games or so, depending on Kent's health and production).

2007-09-22 11:36:54
49.   kngoworld
46 One old guy and one young guy for a guy in his prime to bridge the gap between the rest. Loney would be happy with this move, but is it enough to get Kobe to stop crying?
2007-09-22 11:36:58
50.   D4P
Even if Kent wants to win for selfish reasons, his desire to win and play well still helps the team win

Except that his desire to win may mean for him that the veterans should be playing instead of the kids.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-22 11:38:08
51.   KG16
16 - that's an interesting observation. I, unfortunately, haven't had the chance to make any games this year (and doubt I will make any next week), so it's not something that I've noticed. It definitely goes to my argument that winning only goes so far in breading chemistry.

42 - Kent for Betimet?

2007-09-22 11:38:58
52.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
The longer this conversation goes on, the more I think the LA media and McCourt owe Depodesta an aplology (and maybe his job back?).

Depo was fired, it seemed to me, due to a disappointing/injury filled 2005, which was "caused" by bad chemistry. The chemistry, presumably, was Depo's fault.

If anything, the current chemistry seems worse than it was then. In hindsight, Depo's moves (particularly the chemistry-killing Loduca trade) look pretty smart, while Ned's are looking worse and worse.

Maybe this all just underscores Jon's point in his SI article that it's easy to fire management, but hard to actually fix problems.

2007-09-22 11:40:55
53.   Eric Enders
"Even if Kent wants to win for selfish reasons, his desire to win and play well still helps the team win."

Except there's a difference between fielding a winning team year after year, and going for broke this year. Kent, Gonzo, and especially Lowe seem frustrated that the Dodgers didn't trade away their whole future for a shot to win it all this year.

2007-09-22 11:41:07
54.   Eric Stephen
50 Except that his desire to win may mean for him that the veterans should be playing instead of the kids

Who cares what it means for Kent? He doesn't make the lineup card. He can bitch and moan all he wants, but he still produces and that's all I care about.

2007-09-22 11:42:31
55.   kngoworld
50 I do not think Kent has a problem playing the younger guys. Kent is a jerk, but he is no idiot, he knows Kemp is better then Gonzo, he knows Loney is a better option at first then Nomar, and he surely knows that Martin is a great catcher and team player. Kent is just frustrated with their attitude off the field, which should not concern him. I garantee Kent is just fine with the production from the younger guys. He just doesnt think their heart is in it enough. He wants them to be sad when he is sad.
2007-09-22 11:42:50
56.   Eric Stephen
53 I can accept that, sure. Who knows, maybe the "go for broke" attitude will let the Dodgers luck into A-Rod.
2007-09-22 11:43:45
57.   KG16
54 - ok, argument on how Kent's bitching and moaning affects chemistry and thereby affects play on the field: Kent's bitching and moaning about the kids gets under their skin so they start pressing in an attempt to show that they are the ones who should be playing, by pressing they start swinging at pitches they shouldn't be, getting under balls, and all the other things that lead to less than stellar at bats.

These guys are human, after all.

2007-09-22 11:44:15
58.   old dodger fan
Dayn Perry on Bonds in Dodger Blue:

"Bonds really doesn't need to be playing the field these days, but the Dodgers might be inclined to overlook his shortcomings with the glove. Luis Gonzalez is a pending free agent, and that leaves a hole in left field. As well, the Dodgers need more power, GM Ned Colletti loves to play the veteran hand, and they've got the deep pockets. On another level, Bonds in Dodger blue would be a nifty way to stick it to the hated Giants."

Say it ain't so.

2007-09-22 11:44:31
59.   D4P
Kent's bitching and moaning about the kids gets under their skin so they start pressing

Kent's bitching and moaning might also get under Management's skin, which (in my view) isn't likely to end well.

2007-09-22 11:45:09
60.   KG16
58 - they will be lucky to sell 4 tickets next year instead of 4 million
2007-09-22 11:45:14
61.   Eric Enders
56 And I'd be all for that. All you lose is money, and for a team like the Dodgers where profits are basically unlimited, it's a lot more prudent to give up money than to give up players. Even if A-Rod turns out to be a waste of $200 million, you still have Martin, Loney, Kemp, Billingsley, Broxton, Ethier, etc.
2007-09-22 11:46:09
62.   D4P
If Dodger fans don't mind having Jeff Kent on the team, I don't see why they'd be so opposed to having Barry Bonds.
2007-09-22 11:46:56
63.   Eric Enders
59 Maybe I'm paranoid, but I worry that it will have the opposite effect -- that is, that management will actually listen to him and think his opinions are valid.
2007-09-22 11:47:40
64.   kngoworld
If Kent would have made these comments at the start of August, everyone would be alright with it. Everyone would say, "Kent is just trying to light a fire under the team." "Constructive Criticism," and all that. The kind of stuff coaches do when a team is in a slump.
2007-09-22 11:48:05
65.   Eric Stephen
62 If Dodger fans don't mind having Jeff Kent on the team, I don't see why they'd be so opposed to having Barry Bonds

C'mon, you can't seriously claim that Kent is anywhere close to as hated as Bonds.

2007-09-22 11:48:53
66.   D4P
63
that management will actually listen to him and think his opinions are valid

That's mostly what I meant.

2007-09-22 11:49:44
67.   fanerman
I think the fewer moves management makes, the better (I just don't trust Ned). So, provoking management into making moves (like what Kent did) just seems like a bad idea.
2007-09-22 11:50:20
68.   Eric Enders
65 Inside the clubhouse -- which is what we're talking about here -- I don't see how one can think Bonds would be more hated than Kent.

Bonds has had disputes with exactly one teammate in his career -- Jeff Kent. Kent has had disputes follow him around like a contagion.

2007-09-22 11:50:50
69.   D4P
65
And you can't seriously claim that is anywhere close to as good a hitter as Bonds. They're both jerks. Might as well go with the guy with the 1.051 career OPS.
2007-09-22 11:51:13
70.   KG16
64 - except that Kent is not a coach, he's a teammate. Coaches and players, if they are going to do this kind of stuff, have to do it different ways. Kent has done it in a very bad way, at least looking at it from the outside.
2007-09-22 11:52:33
71.   Eric Stephen
[68} D4P mentioned Dodger fans. I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding inside the clubhouse.
2007-09-22 11:52:47
72.   Eric Enders
69 It should be kept in mind, however, that Kent is displacing Tony Abreu while Bonds would be displacing Matt Kemp (or, perhaps, Andre Ethier). Big difference there.
2007-09-22 11:53:55
73.   kngoworld
70 I definitely agree with you that Kent made a mistake, but I feel if the timing was different, and this was done a few weeks ago it would not have been such a big deal. He waited too long.
2007-09-22 11:56:09
74.   D4P
72
True, but is Ned really gonna go with Ethier and Kemp as the starting outfielders next year?
2007-09-22 11:56:22
75.   Icaros
I was telling my dad yesterday that, in my fantasy world, Pierre is traded for a block of government cheese, Kemp is moved to center, and Bonds is signed for left field.

Then Kent would have someone to hate more than the young players.

2007-09-22 11:56:25
76.   Eric Enders
73 I really think that if Kent had done this in August, though, we'd have seen a lot less of Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, James Loney, and Andy LaRoche in August and September. If there is one clear pattern to Grady Little's tenure with the Dodgers, it's that he will kowtow to the veterans' feelings and wishes whenever humanly possible.
2007-09-22 11:58:03
77.   Eric Stephen
74 I'd say Kemp is a starter for sure in 2008, and Ethier is as big a trade candidate than anyone on the roster (except for maybe LaRoche).
2007-09-22 11:58:28
78.   kngoworld
74 Ethier, Kemp, and Hunter, Torii Hunter.

Opps sorry, im still dreaming a little.

2007-09-22 12:01:12
79.   underdog
58 yeah, a hole in left field? Dayn Perry, do your research my man.

We have a hole in centerfield!

2007-09-22 12:03:07
80.   underdog
There is NO way that Bonds is coming to the Dodgers next year. Not with Conte as trainer, Kent still around, his gimpy knees, and so on. Don't even either fantasize or worry about it. It's not happening, and you can go back and throw this post in my face if it does. Which it won't.

All I know is I hope they repair whatever rift there is in that clubhouse, or trade the grumpy old men/man and move on. This ain't gonna work next year.

2007-09-22 12:03:54
81.   kngoworld
Is Dayn pronounced like Dan, rhyms with man,

or

is it pronounced like Day-N, Dane, rhymes with Jane?

2007-09-22 12:06:21
82.   Icaros
But I want to see Barry Bonds get 3,000 hits in a Dodgers uniform!
2007-09-22 12:07:43
83.   kngoworld
82 But I want to see Arod break Bonds' homerun record in a Dodgers uniform!
2007-09-22 12:08:42
84.   Icaros
83

That too!

2007-09-22 12:08:43
85.   D4P
Bonds would seem to be a perfect fit.

1. Short term contract
2. Won't insist on playing every day
3. Great hitter
4. Ex-Giant
5. Lives in LA (right...?)
6. Will put butts in the seats
7. Great hitter (did I mention that?)

2007-09-22 12:09:20
86.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
What about trading Kent to the Mets for Pedro? Think of the symmetry! 15 years ago we trade an up and coming Pedro for an up and coming (or so they thought) 2B. Now we trade a soon-to-expire 2B for an expiring (or so we think) Pedro.
2007-09-22 12:09:26
87.   xaphor
I'm rather bemused by all this heartfelt lamenting by players and management. Anyone would think we were the Yankees and had filled out our playoff dinner cards on the first day of Spring. The Eulogy I would like to see:

We had about the same chance as most of the poorly constructed and sloppily managed teams in our league, but in the end we fell a few games shy. We'll get them next year, not because we will have improved our managing skills, but due rather to this regression to the mean mumbo jumbo I overheard one of the young people in the office mention. It has us excited and we can't wait to put it into action on the field next year. Be sure to get your season tickets now.

2007-09-22 12:10:08
88.   kngoworld
85 All the more reasons to play for the Angles.

8. DH spot

2007-09-22 12:11:14
89.   Eric Stephen
82 But I want to see Barry Bonds get 3,000 hits in a Dodgers uniform!

But that would give him well over 5,900 hits in his career! :)

2007-09-22 12:12:10
90.   bhsportsguy
76 You really think so?

I don't because what were the options? They had already moved Nomar Garciaparra to 3B, he wasn't going to go back and play first base, Loney has held the position since they brought him up.

The only way Kemp and Ethier play less is if they decide to alternate just those two for one spot. And as for LaRoche, maybe he doesn't play at all if Nomar is healthy but Nomar wasn't and the options are Hillebrand, Martinez, Abreu and LaRoche, who all played anyway.

Unless Grady Little was going to do something similar like playing his backup catcher at first base, I think Kent could have said this back in August, everyone would have reacted the same way as they did now but the actual results probably would not have been much different.

2007-09-22 12:12:24
91.   Bob Timmermann
83
I suggest you get a good video program on your computer and maybe a new version of Photoshop.
2007-09-22 12:12:57
92.   Icaros
85

That settles it, then. My 2008 platform is official:

Pierre for block of cheese. Barry in left, sitting twice a week for Delwyn Young.

2007-09-22 12:14:02
93.   Icaros
89

Was wondering if someone would catch that.

2007-09-22 12:16:02
94.   dzzrtRatt
Former Dodger executive Tagg Romney is the subject of a do-it-yourself political ad that is in danger of winning a Romney campaign "create your own ad" contest. It's snarky!

http://tinyurl.com/2y9et7

2007-09-22 12:17:44
95.   Bob Timmermann
College football's best quarterback has led his team to a 37-28 deficit to Ball State in the 4th quarter at Lincoln.
2007-09-22 12:22:06
96.   Eric Stephen
I'm watching an HBO documentary, "Nine Innings From Ground Zero", about the 2001 World Series in the aftermath of 9/11. I'm a little disappointed they didn't delve more into the managerial decision by Brenly to bring in Kim in Game 5 one night after giving up two HR and throwing 61 pitches in Game 4.
2007-09-22 12:23:59
97.   Bob Timmermann
96
Did Arizona play in the 2001 World Series? I thought that the Yankees conceded the World Series that year out of grief?
2007-09-22 12:25:04
98.   KG16
94 - um, yeah...
2007-09-22 12:26:21
99.   KG16
96/97 - I'll admit, 2001 was the only time that I actually rooted for the Yankees to win the World Series. It was a strange feeling, but made easier by the fact that they were playing the Diamondbacks.
2007-09-22 12:27:38
100.   Eric Stephen
97 The documentary did featur Buster Olney yelling "Holy [expletive]" over and over again regarding the Brosius HR in Game 5.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-22 12:28:01
101.   Eric Enders
90 "You really think so? I don't because what were the options?"
I think Sweeney, Saenz, and perhaps Kent could have started a few more games at first base. Ethier and Kemp could have shared the one outfield spot most of the time. Whatever PT LaRoche got at third could have instead gone to Martinez and Hillenbrand.
2007-09-22 12:29:02
102.   Bob Timmermann
99
Some of us aren't that sentimental.
2007-09-22 12:30:05
103.   Eric Stephen
99 I was rooting for the Diamondbacks out of spite for seemingly all of America wanting the Yankees to win.

I also rooted heavily for the Rams versus the Patriots in the following Super Bowl, partly because of the "Patriots = America" outpouring, but mostly because I'm a Raider fan annoyed by the tuck rule.

2007-09-22 12:31:20
104.   KG16
102 - it was a combination of 9/11 and the fact they were playing an NL West team. Kind of like when I rooted for the Angels the following year. Or like you rooting for Detroit last year.
2007-09-22 12:31:57
105.   Bob Timmermann
103
Eric Stephen and I generally see eye-to-eye, although I'm not a Raiders fan.

I like the cut of his jib.

2007-09-22 12:33:01
106.   D4P
"If you aren't for the Yankees, you're for the terrorists"
2007-09-22 12:33:54
107.   Bob Timmermann
Teams I rooted for in the World Series from 2001 on:
2001 - Arizona
2002 - Angels
2003 - Marlins
2004 - No one
2005 - Astros
2006 - Cardinals, out of spite
2007-09-22 12:34:52
108.   Eric Stephen
105 I'm blushing!

I won't ruin the moment by revealing that I'm a USC fan (but I attended a UC school - San Diego - that doesn't have football or D-1 sports).

2007-09-22 12:35:31
109.   Bob Timmermann
The David Lettermans lead The Team with the Best QB in College Football 40-35 in the 4th quarter with 7 minutes to go.
2007-09-22 12:37:00
110.   Eric Stephen
The one great thing about Super Bowl XXXVI was the U2 concert at halftime. Great performance.
2007-09-22 12:37:02
111.   D4P
Teams I rooted against in the World Series from 2001 on:
2001 - Yankees
2002 - Angels and Giants
2003 - Yankees
2004 - Cardinals (didn't hate the Red Sox yet)
2005 - White Sox
2006 - Cardinals
2007-09-22 12:37:44
112.   Icaros
107

What was No One's starting rotation that year? I forget.

2007-09-22 12:39:46
113.   Icaros
World Series I have bothered watching from 2001 on:

n/a

2007-09-22 12:39:49
114.   Eric Stephen
This documentary failed to show my favorite moment on the 2001 World Series:

At the end of Game 6, a 15-2 drubbing by Arizona at home, the D-Backs were doing the whole handshake on the field thing after the game while the Yankees were filing from the dugout into the clubhouse. The PA system started playing "Start spreading the news...", and Joe Torre immediately had a murderous look on his face. Awesome!

2007-09-22 12:41:16
115.   Bob Timmermann
113
You missed the chance to see Geoff Blum get his moniker of "World Series Hero"?

For shame.

2007-09-22 12:41:24
116.   Fallout
Some of the comments on this board about Kent's comments are just as troublesome as his were. You put Kent down and yet you sound just like him but with more venom.

What Kent said was vague. By being vague he opened the door to all sorts of meanings to his words. You have Kemp saying, "So basically the young guys don't want to win the game?" I think that Kent meant to say many things but that was not one of them. But, you have a ballplayer who is understandably bothered by the comments over reacting saying something to the extreme. (He knows that he is being criticized in other areas than not wanting to win.)

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with Kent. But, he should not have said it openly in the press.

Many were asking what did Plaschke say in his article yesterday? My answer is not much. Because Kent's comments were so disguised, no one knows exactly what he was trying to say. So, Plaschke did have much of a take on it either. His only definitive remark was, "When Andy LaRoche strikes out three times in a big loss in Colorado the grumbling is louder because he has done so at the expense of the benched Garciaparra."
If you have ever been on a team that is fighting for a title, you can understand how this kind of event can fester dissension in a team.

2007-09-22 12:42:28
117.   D4P
113
To clarify, I rooted against without necessarily watching.
2007-09-22 12:45:32
118.   Bob Timmermann
Shawn Green did not play last night for the Mets because it was Yom Kippur.

He is in the starting lineup today.

Which is still Yom Kippur.

2007-09-22 12:46:42
119.   KG16
Teams I rooted for in the Series since 2001:

2001 - Yankees (playing an NL West team and 9/11)
2002 - Angels (playing the Giants, got to go to Game 1)
2003 - n/a (just didn't care about either team)
2004 - Cardinals (didn't like the Red Sox before it was cool to not like the Red Sox)
2005 - White Sox (no reason in particular)
2006 - Cardinals (only because a good friend was a fan)

2007-09-22 12:47:23
120.   Bob Timmermann
The Greatest Quarterback in College Football has put his team ahead 41-40 over the David Lettermans with about 3 minutes left.
2007-09-22 12:52:14
121.   KG16
Michigan is apparently believing the "We can still go to the Rose Bowl" line, fumble recovered inside the Penn St 10 yard line. Of course, there is plenty of time for them to collapse... 9:36 left in the first, and Michigan scores a TD (run by the true freshman quarterback)
2007-09-22 12:52:47
122.   Fallout
68 Eric Enders
Bonds has had disputes with exactly one teammate in his career -- Jeff Kent.

Not true. Many players have had their problems with Bonds. Kent was just more open about it than the rest. Others waited until they left the team to state their issues with Bonds.

2007-09-22 12:53:35
123.   Bob Timmermann
122
Yes, I wonder what Mark Sweeney thinks about Barry Bonds.
2007-09-22 12:54:25
124.   Eric Enders
I'll start with 2000 because 1999 was the ultimate "who cares" World Series of our time.

2000 - Mets
2001 - Arizona
2002 - Angels
2003 - Florida
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - Astros
2006 - Detroit

In 2001, a friend and I cheered loudly for the Diamondbacks from the Yankee Stadium bleachers. That was, um, interesting.

2007-09-22 12:56:22
125.   Eric Enders
122 Okay, fine. I'll add a word.

"Bonds has had public disputes with exactly one teammate in his career."

I'm sure he's had private ones, but so has Jeff Kent, and probably many more than Bonds has.

2007-09-22 12:56:47
126.   Bob Timmermann
The David Lettermans miss a potential game-winning 55-yard field goal.

All hail the Greatest QB in College Football!

2007-09-22 12:57:17
127.   dzzrtRatt
116 The one additional bit of information that perhaps sheds light on what Kent was talking about came from the quotes attributed to Loney about "having fun is part of the game." Since Loney, Kemp and the rest of the youngsters were mentioned in Kent's remarks, I think it's a reasonable assumption that they are in a position to connect the dots, to know what Kent was talking about.

The picture I'm getting now is that Kent was extremely disappointed when the season started to fall apart in August, and then fell into the slough of despond last week in Colorado. He didn't see the young players reacting the same way. Perhaps he asked Loney something like, "Don't you care? Why are you playing that crazy beatnik music and rolling those laughing dice? Don't you get it? Your world is collapsing around you!" And perhaps Loney answered, "Chill, dude. It's just a game, man. I'll go out there and hit .340 and rediscover my home run stroke while you're still sliding into third base about 10 minutes after the ball gets there. But it's all good."

It is literally a generation gap. It's like the Cat Stevens "Father and Son" song, or Harry Chapin "Cats in the Cradle." I think it has been grossly overblown with regard to the outcome of the season.

If anyone's career should be damaged by this brouhaha, it would have to be Grady Little's. But this would only be one of the things on my list. I wouldn't want to see him fired just for this.

2007-09-22 12:59:33
128.   Bob Timmermann
Rain delay in Anaheim.
2007-09-22 13:00:50
129.   dzzrtRatt
124 When I try to impress people by reciting from memory all the World Series matchups from 1950 on, I usually crumble at 1999. I know the Yankees were in it. But who else? It seems like in those years they just played with themselves.

Without looking, I would guess Atlanta, but not confidently.

2007-09-22 13:01:55
130.   Eric Stephen
World Series teams I have rooted for:

2001 - AZ (I hate America)
2002 - Angels (but was rooting for Bonds to do well)
2003 - Marlins (Juan Pierre -- just kidding; actually more anti-Yankee than anything)
2004 - Red Sox (didn't want Larry Walker and his faux 1997 MVP to win)
2005 - Astros (although the White Sox were the first team I ever saw clinch a pennant in person)
2006 - Tigers (anti-Cardinal residue from 2004 playoffs, LaRussa).

2007-09-22 13:02:11
131.   Eric Enders
"Atlanta, but not confidently."

That's who played against the Yankees, yes. And also how.

2007-09-22 13:02:36
132.   Bob Timmermann
But the 1999 World Series featured Chad Curtis acting like a jerk to Jim Gray and then everyone realized that both of them were even bigger jerks than Pete Rose.
2007-09-22 13:03:43
133.   Eric Enders
I wonder how far back Eric Stephen and I would have to go to find one where we rooted for different teams.
2007-09-22 13:06:13
134.   Marty
Where's Uncle Miltie when we need him? I'd love to hear his take on Kent-Gate.
2007-09-22 13:07:05
135.   Bob Timmermann
And the 1999 World Series revealed that if you had a popularity contest to have people pick the greatest players of the 20th Century, that the average fan was incredibly stupid.
2007-09-22 13:07:24
136.   immouch
ok. i know the topic has been beaten to death, but the more i think about it, the more hacked i am at kent. he made his comments when the dodgers were not, (and are not) mathematically eliminated. seems an odd moment to criticize teammates for giving up. if he's such a gamer he should not, you know, quit.
2007-09-22 13:08:33
137.   Eric Stephen
133 Lets see:

1999 - Braves
1998 - Padres (that hurts to type that)
1997 - Indians
1996 - Yankees (they weren't annoying yet)
1995 - Indians
1993 - Blue Jays
1992 - Blue Jays
1991 - Twins
1990 - Reds
1989 - As
1988 - Dodgers
1987 - Twins
1986 - Mets
1985 - Royals
1984 - Tigers (first year I remember watching the WS)

2007-09-22 13:08:33
138.   D4P
Where's Uncle Miltie when we need him?

I think he must be overwhelmed by Oregon's greatness.

2007-09-22 13:09:24
139.   Eric Enders
My favorite moment of the 2001 World Series also involved Jim Gray. After Game 7 he was interviewing Tony Womack, who was standing next to a woman of somewhat indeterminate age who was wearing a bandanna on her head. Gray said, "And who is this, your mother?"

Womack responded "No, man, that's my wife."

2007-09-22 13:10:34
140.   bhsportsguy
135 Its raining on the Westside, what's it like in Pasadena?
2007-09-22 13:12:12
141.   Marty
Well, the best team in the best conference on the planet is down 7-0
2007-09-22 13:13:11
142.   bhsportsguy
All I remember about last year's World Series was watching the last game at a little bar and everyone in the place saying something like "c'mon its Jeff Weaver, he will blow up sooner or later."
2007-09-22 13:13:21
143.   Bob Timmermann
I go back a distance:
1971 - Pirates
1972 - Reds
1973 - Mets
1974 - Dodgers
1975 - Red Sox
1976 - Neutral
1977 - Dodgers
1978 - Dodgers
1979 - Pirates
1980 - Royals
1981 - Dodgers
1982 - Cardinals
1983 - Neutral
1984 - Neutral
1985 - Royals
1986 - Red Sox
1987 - Twins
1988 - Dodgers
1989 - A's
1990 - Neutral
1991 - Twins
1992 - Blue Jays
1993 - Phillies
1994 - Binding Arbitration!
1995 - Indians
1996 - Braves
1997 - Indians
1998 - Padres
1999 - Braves
2000 - Mets
2007-09-22 13:13:46
144.   Marty
It's raining where I am and I'm a mile from the Rose Bowl.
2007-09-22 13:13:48
145.   Eric Enders
137
1999 - Braves
1998 - Padres
1997 - Indians
1996 - I actually don't remember who I rooted for in this one. So we'll skip it.
1995 - Indians
1993 - Blue Jays
1992 - Blue Jays
1991 - Twins
1990 - Reds
1989 - A's
1988 - A's (kidding, kidding)
1987 - Twins
1986 - Red Sox

So there you go. 1986.

2007-09-22 13:14:50
146.   Bob Timmermann
A shower had just passed through the Pasadena area, but it's stopped for the time being.

I have to think that Brookside Golf Course is going to be closed today.

2007-09-22 13:15:24
147.   Eric Enders
In 1990, though, I don't think I cared that much. I probably wouldn't have minded if the A's won.
2007-09-22 13:17:02
148.   Eric Stephen
145 I was bitter as a pseudo Angel fan in 1986 about the 1986 ALCS, mostly because I probably would have been able to go to the World Series if the Halos would have won.
2007-09-22 13:17:23
149.   trainwreck
Oh my God!

When I read all these quotes, I thought you guys were joking.

This is not good.

2007-09-22 13:19:32
150.   Linkmeister
140 "How are things in Gloccamora?"

Sorry, I just posted a random shuffle on my blog, and Broadway tunes got into my head.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-22 13:19:59
151.   Bob Timmermann
148
The 1986 Mets were the biggest collection of human beings who deserved next to no respect or admiration that was ever put together in the sport of baseball, with the possible exception of some prison teams.
2007-09-22 13:20:04
152.   D4P
149
We never joke about chemistry and clubhouse relations.
2007-09-22 13:21:09
153.   Eric Enders
Teams I would root for this year in the World Series, in order:

1) Cleveland
2) Milwaukee
3) Padres
4) Phillies
5) Arizona
6) Cubs
7) Mets
8) Red Sox
9) Angels
10) Yankees

Most of those teams I find fairly likeable. The only one I really can't stand is the Yankees.

2007-09-22 13:22:00
154.   trainwreck
Well, maybe this will lead to something good. I have no idea. Right now, I am just completely surprised.
2007-09-22 13:24:15
155.   Bob Timmermann
In an NBC commercial, John Madden was forced to say that the Chicago Bears are "America's Team."
2007-09-22 13:24:39
156.   Eric Enders
151 Bob with his irrational Ron Darling hatred again.

I agree, though. The Mets were total scumbags. They did have a handful of pitchers I didn't mind, however. Darling, old friend Sid Fernandez, future friends Orosco and McDowell.

2007-09-22 13:25:27
157.   Eric Stephen
151 I was 10; what did I know? I can't retroactively change my rooting interests. It was probably poor upbringing. :)
2007-09-22 13:26:35
158.   Marty
1964 - Cardinals
1965 - Dodgers
1966 - Dodgers
1967 - Cardinals
1968 - Cardinals
1969 - Mets (but I didn't think they had a chance)
1970 - Reds (I didn't hate them yet)
1971 - Pirates
1972 - Reds (I was starting to get annoyed with them)
1973 - Mets
1974 - Dodgers
1975 - Red Sox (Full blown hatred of the Reds)
1976 - Wanted stadium to explode
1977 - Dodgers
1978 - Dodgers
1979 - Priates
1980 - Who cares?
1981 - Dodgers
1982 - Who cares?
1983 - Who cares?
1984 - Who cares?
1985 - Detroit
1986 - Red Sox
1987 - Twins
1988 - Dodgers
1989 - Who cares?
1990 - Who cares?
1991 - Twins
1992 - Who cares?
1993 - Who cares?
1994 - Best Series Ever
1995 - Cleveland
1996 - See 1976
1997 - Cleveland
1998 - Padres
1999 - See 1996
2000 - Mike Piazza's bat
2001 - Who cares?
2002 - Angels
2003 - Who cares?
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - Astros
2006 - Tigers
2007-09-22 13:27:30
159.   Eric Stephen
153 *1) Cleveland
2) Milwaukee*

I'm down with that, as these are the team and stadium from "Major League".

2007-09-22 13:29:13
160.   Fallout
127 dzzrtRatt
The one additional bit of information that perhaps sheds light on what Kent was talking about came from the quotes attributed to Loney about "having fun is part of the game."

That a good point. Whereas Kemp was just letting off steam with his not wanting to win question.

But, I sure hope that Loney wouldn't say, "Chill, dude. It's just a game, man...." I would freak if he said that.

2007-09-22 13:29:40
161.   Eric Enders
159 They are also the two teams to call Miller Park home this season.
2007-09-22 13:29:49
162.   kngoworld
158 You win.
2007-09-22 13:29:58
163.   Bob Timmermann
156
It was Doug Sisk who really chaffed me.
2007-09-22 13:31:54
164.   trainwreck
I am going to go watch Cal destroy Arizona, while it is raining.

I do not really know why I am going, I guess just because I got a free ticket.

2007-09-22 13:32:23
165.   Icaros
Folks, with your vote for team GM I promise to do all I can to put this lineup on the field for you. It'll have everything: youngsters, oldsters (but still goodsters), hard-nosed play, Hollywood drama and smugitude, youthful glee and mid-air body bumps, clubhouse brawls...and will possibly score more runs than any team in baseball history.

Kemp (CF)
Martin (C)
Bonds (LF)
A-Rod (SS)
Loney (1B)
Kent (2B)
Ethier (RF)
LaRoche (3B)

2007-09-22 13:32:54
166.   Eric Stephen
163 I was about to ask, what did Tim Teufel ever do to you?

158 Marty really, really wanted the Tigers to repeat in 1985.

2007-09-22 13:33:13
167.   KG16
153 - interesting list... mine would go like this:

1. Angels (too many old friends on the coaching staff)
2. Philly (old friend Jayson Werth, and the symmetry of winning the World Series the year they lost game #10000)
3. Cleveland (because they aren't anyone else on the list)
4. Mets (too many old friends that I'd like to see get a ring, ok, mainly Lo Duca)
5. Brewers (still not a fan of the Commissioner and this is his team, even if it's not)
6. Padres (because they aren't everyone else on the list)
7. Arizona (see #6)
8. Cubs (because of the symmetry of celebrating world titles 100 years apart)
9. Yankees (this should seem obvious, but there is the added factor that if they tank, A-Rod would be less inclined to return)
10. Red Sox (because the difference between lovable loser and annoying winner is 4 games, god, they annoy me)

2007-09-22 13:33:20
168.   Eric Enders
160 I took Kemp's comments about wanting to win as a direct response to Kent's statement: "Look around this clubhouse -- is there any sense of loss? They don't get it. There's no sense of failure in here."
2007-09-22 13:33:45
169.   Linkmeister
158 Marty and I are very much of an age; I started caring about the WS in 1961.

On the other hand, in some of his "who cares" years I did have a little bit of a fan's interest.

And Bob, UH and its fans do not agree with your designation of the Nebraska QB as "Best Quarterback in College Football."

2007-09-22 13:33:47
170.   Bob Timmermann
165
The record is 1220.

You've got quite a target there.

2007-09-22 13:34:34
171.   Bob Timmermann
169
I was being ironic. Very ironic. See last week's comments about the USC-Nebraska game.
2007-09-22 13:36:00
172.   KG16
165 - I only have a problem with your projected left fielder. If we can change that to, let's see... anyone else in major league baseball, you'd probably get my vote.
2007-09-22 13:36:25
173.   Linkmeister
171 Yes, with the quotation marks surrounding the phrase I figured you were; I just thought I'd remind people that Colt Brennan, sprained ankle and all, has yet to play today.
2007-09-22 13:37:46
174.   dzzrtRatt
I go back further than most of you, rooting for:

1964 - Cardinals
1965 - Dodgers
1966 - Dodgers
1967 - Red Sox
1968 - Detroit
1969 - Mets
1970 - Didn't care
1971 - Pirates
1972 - didn't care
1973 - Mets
1974 - Dodgers
1975 - Red Sox
1976 - Reds
1977 - Dodgers
1978 - Dodgers
1979 - Pirates
1980 - Phillies
1981 - Dodgers
1982 - Brewers
1983 - Orioles
1984 - Detroit
1985 - Didn't care, thoroughly disgusted
1986 - Mets
1987 - Twins
1988 - Dodgers
1989 - Didn't care, glad nobody died
1990 - Still didn't care
1991 - Twins
1992 - Jays
1993 - Jays
1994 - Dodgers would've been in it, I swear
1995 - Indians
1996 - Braves, no Yankees, no Braves, no...
1997 - Indians
1998 - Ugh
1999 - No thanks.
2000 - Mets
2001 - D-backs
2002 - Angels
2003 - Marlins
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - Houston
2006 - Tigers

2007-09-22 13:37:59
175.   Bob Timmermann
173
So lots of Charleston Southern fans in town?
2007-09-22 13:39:55
176.   Bob Timmermann
Anchors Aweigh! Navy beats Duke 46-43 on a last second field goal.
2007-09-22 13:39:57
177.   Marty
Thanks Eric. Please switch 1984 and 1985 in my list.
2007-09-22 13:44:23
178.   dbenzen
Think the generation gap extends to the front office? Colletti sat at the knees of vet aquisition maven Brian Sabean. Not sure Ned has a clue what to do about mixing the kids and the vets.

Bet on the kids --- Loney and Kent are right, having fun is playing and winning the game.

2007-09-22 13:47:24
179.   underdog
There's like 5 college football games on right now and not a single one I care about. Just seeing SEC games written up in the TV Guide puts me to sleep.

Instead I watched Von Ryan's Express courtesy my Tivo and all was better with the world. Except for Frank Sinatra.

2007-09-22 13:47:53
180.   dzzrtRatt
I thought the '86 Mets were great!

Who can't love Mookie Wilson? And Howard Johnson, what a hard-core player. Orosco. Keith Hernandez. Gooden. Kevin Mitchell. Sure, I wouldn't have wanted to run into these guys at a bar, especially not the men's room. But to watch play ball -- they were fun.

2007-09-22 13:48:57
181.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I'm jealous of all these memories of rooting for the Dodgers in the WS. My finest (and only good) postseason memory was Lima's game against the cardinals. I think my baseball memory goes back to '92 or so.

Hmm... 1 playoff win in my entire Dodger experience. But I'll always remember the optimism that Malone brought before the '99 season.

2007-09-22 13:49:28
182.   underdog
This year the Indians and Brewers would get my official rooting seal of approval if they made the WS. I also have an obligation to root for the Yankees (sorry) because my dad is such a huge fan and he'd do the same for me. But as one who roots for the underdog outside my division, Indians and Brewers, that's about it. Not even the Cubs, because they annoy me.
2007-09-22 13:49:41
183.   dzzrtRatt
160 What I picked up from Loney's quote is the young fellers like to goof around in the clubhouse, to relieve the pressure. I don't know if "chill" captures that. You should probably ask someone younger than me.
2007-09-22 13:50:40
184.   underdog
Jesse Orosco was the only 86 Met I openly rooted for, because he went to my high school and I was in school with his nephew. Other than that, hated that team, but also found them kind of memorable in personality.
2007-09-22 13:51:14
185.   Eric Stephen
Apparently you are aloud to say [rhymes with spit] on FX many, many times, as proven by "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia".
2007-09-22 13:52:54
186.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
185 I have not seen the show, but I live in Philadelphia now. Profanity is pretty common here.
2007-09-22 13:54:22
187.   Bob Timmermann
I think today I may actually use the Gold Line to get me to the Rose Bowl. Combined with a shuttle bus.

I wonder if I will get home before midnight.

2007-09-22 13:54:37
188.   dzzrtRatt
I'll root for the Angels. Their success doesn't offset the disappointment, but it'll help. I root for both local teams, but the Dodgers much more intensely. If they falter, I'll pull for the Tribe.

Over in the NL - Geez, it's all a bunch of sad-sack teams, isn't it? Teams more known for being bad than good, with the exception of Arizona. I go back a long ways with the Mets, so probably them. But if the Brewers make it, I won't be able to help but pull for them. If the NLCS ends up being San Diego vs. Arizona -- ugh.

2007-09-22 13:56:24
189.   Bob Timmermann
Every time somebody roots for the Mets now Jesus kills two puppies and three kittens.
2007-09-22 14:02:59
190.   Bob Timmermann
I guess the dead puppies sort of turned poeple off.

I apologize.

2007-09-22 14:04:30
191.   underdog
No, it was the kittens. My cat spelled out "Mets" in the litterbox just now to spite you.
2007-09-22 14:04:57
192.   Eric Stephen
190 The dead kittens were no problem though. Stupid cats deserved to die.
2007-09-22 14:06:25
193.   Bob Timmermann
My cat has been cross with me in the last few minutes.
2007-09-22 14:07:30
194.   ToyCannon
1966 - Dodgers
1967 - Red Sox
1968 - Tigers
1969 - Mets
1970 - Baltimore
1971 - Pirates
1972 - Reds
1973 - Oakland
1974 - Dodgers
1975 - Red Sox
1976 - Yankees
1977 - Dodgers
1978 - Dodgers
1979 - Pirates
1980 - KC-2nd favorite team at the time.
1981 - Dodgers
1982 - Brewers
1983 - Baltimore
1984 - Padres
1985 - KC
1986 - Red Sox
1987 - Twins
1988 - Dodgers
1989 - My 1st who cares
1990 - My 2nd who cares
1991 - Twins
1992 - Toronto
1993 - Toronto
1994 -
1995 - Cleveland
1996 - Yankees
1997 - Cleveland
1998 - Padres
1999 - Atlanta
2000 - Mets and Mike
2001 - Arizona
2002 - Angels
2003 - Florida
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - Don't remember
2006 - Don't remember
2007-09-22 14:07:53
195.   Eric Enders
Image seen in Bob's apartment immediately after post 189:
http://tinyurl.com/yuuh88
2007-09-22 14:08:22
196.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Is anyone else missing Felice's 5 up, 5 down column on SI.com? I think that's my favorite feature on the site.
2007-09-22 14:09:25
197.   Eric Enders
My favorite feature on the site is Jon's column.
2007-09-22 14:10:31
198.   Eric Stephen
And now oddanimals.com is bookmarked!
2007-09-22 14:13:13
199.   ToyCannon
Loney is now my favorite Dodger.

Loney said of Kent, "Who said he was a leader?"

World Champion Preference:
Angels - not even close
Phillies
Brewers
Arizona
Cubs - just so we don't have to listen about their misery anymore
Cleveland

It is possible that if the Padres/Mets/Yankees/Boston are playing each other I won't even watch for the 1st time in my life.

2007-09-22 14:15:04
200.   bhsportsguy
199 I hated that he said that, it just struck me as the wrong thing to say.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-22 14:15:48
201.   Linkmeister
175 They haven't made themselves noticeable, if they're here.
2007-09-22 14:18:53
202.   bhsportsguy
And if only for the story, I find myself more and more rooting for the Yankees to again face the Red Sox and then the Cubs.
2007-09-22 14:20:11
203.   Bob Timmermann
201
I doubt that Charleston Southern has a lot of fans who travel to road games that are played in the state of South Carolina.

They had 12000 at their first game at The Citadel and then around 6000 at their next game at Samford.

For their home opener against Johnson C. Smith University they drew 2384.

2007-09-22 14:21:47
204.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees would take apart the Cubs in the World Series. That wouldn't even be remotely interesting.

I don't see a single Cubs pitcher who could handle the Yankees lineup.

2007-09-22 14:23:33
205.   Linkmeister
203 Yeah, the AD out here has been taking a lot of flak for scheduling two Div 1-AA teams; in fairness, Michigan backed out with a month or two to go before the start of the season.

Given the way they started out, obviously that was a smart thing to do.

2007-09-22 14:25:14
206.   Bob Timmermann
205
Michigan plays 6 of its first 7 games at home. Their first road trip is to Northwestern next week.
2007-09-22 14:26:13
207.   ToyCannon
201
I thought it was the perfect response to let Kent know what the kids felt about him.
2007-09-22 14:26:14
208.   ToyCannon
201
I thought it was the perfect response to let Kent know what the kids felt about him.
2007-09-22 14:26:28
209.   Bob Timmermann
The game in Atlanta is no longer interesting. The Braves led 2-0 in the sixth when Smoltz walked Weeks with two outs. Hardy followed with game-tying home run.
2007-09-22 14:27:58
210.   Fallout
204 Bob Timmermann
I could hear you booing Zambrano from here.
2007-09-22 14:28:37
211.   Fallout
200 bhsportsguy
I didn't like it either.
2007-09-22 14:29:33
212.   KG16
199 - I'd rather the Cubs continue to lose. If the Red Sox are any indication, the Cubs (and their fans) will be even more annoying after winning the World Series.

Since everyone else did a list going back as far as they remember...

1988 - Dodgers (yes, it was actually the first World Series I remember, though I do vaguely remember Garvey prior to 1988)
1989 - Giants (I had yet to learn of their evilness and was more against the A's than anything)
1990 - Reds (ditto 1989)
1991 - Twins (Kirby Puckett)
1992 - Blue Jays (my sister liked them and the Braves were starting to annoy me)
1993 - Blue Jays (no reason in particular)
1994 - ugh
1995 - Indians (the Braves were really annoying me at this point, plus, I loved the Major League movies)
1996 - would have preferred another 1994
1997 - Indians (can't stand watching franchises buy championships)
1998 - didn't care
1999 - still didn't care
2000 - really didn't care

I will say this about los Yanquis, after their last title, they had one of the best Nike (I think it was Nike) commercials I've ever seen, something like: New York Yankees, 25 World Championships, we'll try harder next century.

2007-09-22 14:29:51
213.   Daniel Zappala
31-6 BYU over Air Force.
2007-09-22 14:31:28
214.   Bob Timmermann
213
You're not showing support for our boys in uniform there, Professor!
2007-09-22 14:36:16
215.   Bob Timmermann
The Blue Jays are trying a Dodgers-style rally:
Double, walk, strikeout, wild pitch, strikeout, passed ball, walk
2007-09-22 14:36:37
216.   Daniel Zappala
214 I just spent four straight hours doing yard work. If the Air Force had come over to lend me a hand, I would have rooted for them.
2007-09-22 14:36:45
217.   Dodgers49
200. 199 I hated that he said that, it just struck me as the wrong thing to say.

I thought it was a great question to ask. Because it seems to me one of the few people who actually think of Jeff Kent as a leader is Jeff Kent. How can you be a leader when you don't even interact with most of the rest of the team?

2007-09-22 14:43:36
218.   Daniel Zappala
1977 - Dodgers
1978 - Dodgers
1979 - Pirates
1980 - Royals
1981 - Dodgers
1982 - didn't care
1983 - Phillies
1984 - Tigers
1985 - Royals
1986 - didn't care
1987 - Twins
1988 - Dodger
1989 - boycott, living through the earthquake
1990 - against the A's
1991 - Twins
1992 - didn't care
1993 - didn't care
1994 - horrified and saddened
1995 - didn't care
1996 - against the Yankees
1997 - didn't care
1998 - against the Yankees
1999 - against the Yankees
2000 - against the Yankees
2001 - against the Yankees
2002 - Angels of course
2003 - against the Yankees
2004 - Red Sox
2005 - against the White Sox
2006 - Tigers
2007 - Angels
2007-09-22 14:44:13
219.   bhsportsguy
I'm off to Pasadena, I'm taking the long route.
2007-09-22 14:46:25
220.   Bob Timmermann
219
I'm trying it sans automobile tonight.

I might not stay for the whole game.

2007-09-22 14:50:53
221.   D4P
I'm trying it sans automobile tonight

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but I'm pretty sure you're violating The Patriot Act.

2007-09-22 15:15:52
222.   Bob Timmermann
221
Shh.... They're listening in.
2007-09-22 15:21:29
223.   D4P
(They can't hear when you type inside the Whisper Parentheses)
2007-09-22 15:24:48
224.   underdog
Ray Ratto has a nice piece on Barry Bonds, eliminating all the places he definitely won't play for.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/22/SPE0SC84P.DTL

--

Good for you, Bob! Taking public transportation, I wish more people in LA followed your lead.

2007-09-22 15:27:41
225.   D4P
224
I didn't read it closely, but from what I read, I didn't necessarily agree with his eliminations.
2007-09-22 15:28:30
226.   Bob Timmermann
224
I'm not going to like it. It will involve walking.

And I hope my asthma isn't all stirred up by the change in the weather. It already is to a certain extent.

2007-09-22 15:31:00
227.   kngoworld
Hey Bob, whats the most runs scored in a game without a homerun? The New York / Toronto game is 9 - 10 without a long ball.
2007-09-22 15:31:38
228.   Bob Timmermann
Free baseball in Atlanta!
2007-09-22 15:32:02
229.   Bob Timmermann
227
Many more than that.
2007-09-22 15:32:27
230.   underdog
225 Really? I think the Orioles, Rangers and Mariners would be my choices too, followed possibly by the Angels. And I can see him pulling a Clemens and joining a team midseason. I didn't like his "less said about them the better" dis of the Dodgers though it's hard to disagree if you look at the final month of this season.
2007-09-22 15:32:34
231.   KG16
224 - you have to wonder what he means by "well, the less said about that, the better" when talking about the Dodgers.

Otherwise, he's not that far off from me when it comes to Bonds, there just isn't going to be a market for him.

2007-09-22 15:40:50
232.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not certain what the most runs scored without a homer is, but the Yankees and Blue Jays are currently at 20 runs.

I would think a 19th century game would be the record.

Do a very quick and non systematic search, I've already turned up a 23-run game that had no homers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA199209230.shtml

In the last 50 years, the most runs scored by a team without hitting a homer is a mere 20.

2007-09-22 15:48:17
233.   Bob Timmermann
Here's a game with 27 runs and nary a homer:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN198105190.shtml

Ahh, early 1980s baseball!

2007-09-22 15:51:39
234.   Bob Timmermann
They're up to 22 runs in New York without a homer.

11-11 after 8.

2007-09-22 15:59:43
235.   overkill94
Anybody else see the worst balk non-call in history during the Angels game? Not only was the pitcher's leg further than the 45 degrees allowed, he was pretty close to a full 90 degrees.
2007-09-22 16:00:40
236.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees have used 9 pitchers today.

They have only 13 left.

2007-09-22 16:01:41
237.   Bob Timmermann
235
The umpire was dazzled by the hyphen.
2007-09-22 16:06:14
238.   overkill94
Bob, Scott Olsen had all eight of the runs he gave up yesterday be unearned. That's gotta be close to the record, right? If not most unearned runs charged to one pitcher, maybe most runs given up without any of them being earned?
2007-09-22 16:07:57
239.   Marty
Just be glad you didn't take the Gold Line yesterday.
2007-09-22 16:08:55
240.   Marty
Re: Loney. Me and Toy Cannon are simpatico.
2007-09-22 16:09:55
241.   Marty
The Fightin Geniuses go down again.
2007-09-22 16:12:04
242.   Who Is Karim Garcia
What's up overkill. good to see ya. I hate the angels. so. much.

that is all.

2007-09-22 16:14:42
243.   Who Is Karim Garcia
there is your balk.
2007-09-22 16:16:02
244.   Bob Timmermann
238
There's a whole post about it on the Griddle last night.
2007-09-22 16:17:28
245.   overkill94
Howdy WIKG, looks like we're about 4 men strong in here right now. Everyone else must be out enjoying their weekend or something.

I'm really rooting for the Phillies to overtake the Padres for the wild card now. I know way too many loudmouth Padres fans who will be talking smack all off-season even if they get dominated in the playoffs again.

2007-09-22 16:18:40
246.   overkill94
244 You're making too many posts these days, I can't keep track of 'em unless they're on the sidebar
2007-09-22 16:20:51
247.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I'm pulling for the Tribe in the AL. Anyone else think I'm crazy?
2007-09-22 16:24:05
248.   Bob Timmermann
246
https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/814904.html
2007-09-22 16:24:06
249.   Bob Timmermann
246
https://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/814904.html
2007-09-22 16:24:08
250.   overkill94
247 I'd be a little upset if they won the AL a year after I lost my bet at 8-1 odds for them to do the exact same thing.

But yeah, I like the Indians too, especially since it would really piss off ESPN.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-22 16:24:26
251.   Bob Timmermann
For emphasis!
2007-09-22 16:30:24
252.   Eric Stephen
According to Diamond Leung, Kemp plans this winter to "move to Arizona and work out with a personal trainer."

Also, I thought this was funny, from the same article: " The Dodgers have nominated catcher Russell Martin for Major League Baseball's Heart & Hustle Award."

2007-09-22 16:39:59
253.   Marty
252 Otherwise known as The Lo Duca
2007-09-22 16:40:50
254.   Bob Timmermann
The Angels must wait one more day to clinch.
2007-09-22 16:45:13
255.   D4P
Kemp plans this winter to "move to Arizona and work out with a personal trainer."

And to be closer to LuGo.

2007-09-22 16:47:19
256.   KG16
Watching the post game show on Fox right now. They just showed the play in foul territory where Abreu called off Nomar. I don't think Nomar was going to get to that ball anyway.
2007-09-22 16:51:04
257.   Jon Weisman
Game thread is open.

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