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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
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'Congratulations, Universe - You Win'
2007-09-24 09:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

T.J. Simers is lecturing the Dodgers and their fans about behavior and respect.

T.J. Simers.

* * *

Here's my latest tour of the National League West at SI.com's Fungoes.

Also, Dodger Thoughts reader Erin Wilson has a new blog going: Blue Thoughts, though she says she will soon change the name because the blog's scope has expanded beyond the Dodgers.

* * *

The California Parks Foundation is having a charity online auction on September 27th and one of the items is a Dodger fan package including box seats to a game. Proceeds will help to protect and preserve California's state parks, but bidders do not have to live in California to bid.

* * *

Update: Mark Whicker of the Register strikes a blow for sanity:

The fact that they're 22-29 since then is a disaster that James Loney, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Russell Martin and Chad Billingsley have done their best to prevent.

The Dodgers lost because they got one victory out of Jason Schmidt, and because Randy Wolf didn't pitch an inning after July 3, and because Hong-Chih Kuo was gone after June 26, and because Derek Lowe went from 16-8 to 12-13.

They lost because Rafael Furcal and Juan Pierre, the 1-2 hitters, rank 53rd and 57th in NL on-base percentage, and because Jonathan Broxton began throwing home run balls at game-breaking times, and because Nomar Garciaparra had 24 extra-base hits all season, and because there wasn't enough bench to sustain everything.

They did not lose because of their kids — or because of Kent, for that matter, since the second baseman had a scorching July and had a .498 slugging percentage. ...

The Dodgers' instability has traditionally spawned a culture of complaint, and that's a problem Little, Ned Colletti and Frank McCourt must fix.

It's simple self-preservation. Generally, players get more selfish the older they get and the more often they're traded. Bringing in the Wise Old Veteran only works if the WOV can still play. If he can't, he starts politicking for more innings and that one final contract. You could heat the Yukon with all the deadwood that lives in the Dodgers' room.

Comments (518)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-24 09:31:17
1.   Bumsrap
So maybe there is a heaven and a hell in the Universe.
2007-09-24 09:32:44
2.   Terry A
Great headline. Great.
2007-09-24 09:37:26
3.   Bumsrap
Regarding the existence of Ying and Yang on the Dodgers, why not start Hu at ss?
2007-09-24 09:48:52
4.   Bob Timmermann
I have no metaphor to use at home because I have a white kettle and most of my pots are yellow.
2007-09-24 09:50:29
5.   jasonungar07
If Oscar wants a donkey let's get him one.
2007-09-24 09:50:48
6.   Bluebleeder87
You know Simers seems like a nice guy & all (on the radio he sounds it anyway) but when he writes it's like he becomes this BIASED idiot, it's almost insulting.
2007-09-24 09:52:21
7.   Bob Timmermann
I miss Dwight.
2007-09-24 09:52:38
8.   underdog
Nice headline indeed. Simers scares me, only because I worry he has influence on the Dodgers' brass decision-making.

I wrote this at end of previous thread; reposting:
600 I dunno if I'm ready to lump Furcal in with the other guys, or give him away. He had an injury-slowed year but when he's healthy he's one of the best shortstops in baseball, on defense and offense. I'd want him back next year.

2007-09-24 09:53:00
9.   Bluebleeder87
3

Abreu's hitting has already dictated that, I'm sure Kent will get some days of though.

2007-09-24 09:58:13
10.   Bluebleeder87
I just read Tony Jackson's piece, nice to hear at least SOME are giving the rooks props.
2007-09-24 09:58:53
11.   LogikReader
Is that you [singing]?

Yep, all four parts, I did it on the computer, it took for-EVER...

--

This is almost like a Dodger roster cold war. We all fear one day someone will push the button and we'll instantly go back to 1999.

2007-09-24 10:04:10
12.   dzzrtRatt
Simers has no influence anywhere. He's a jokester.

Camille Johnston, to be fair, is the PR spokesperson for the McCourts and tends to deal with company rather than team issues. If they find some of the bobble-head dolls were made and China and are covered with lead-based paint, then you'll see Camille quoted. She talks about concessions, parking, ticket prices, stadium refurbishing, etc.

Having done this for a living for quite a few years, I can tell that if Camille is saying anything to McCourt or Colletti, she's saying "be unavailable." Any further comment would just fuel this thing. She realizes it's a bad story, but there's no reason it has to continue day after day. The quickest way for it to die is for the reporters to get absolutely nothing new from anyone who counts. You want to "deprive the story of oxygen," if you're a pro in these circumstances.

I'm sure the McCourts would love to weigh in on this. They're probably pissed as hell at somebody and want to unload. But if Camille is doing her job, they're both locked in their offices, duct tape all over their mouths, their phones replaced with replicas that aren't plugged into anything.

By now, Kent -- not a stupid man -- probably knows he committed a faux pas. His code of masculinity won't let him apologize or back down, but I'm sure he realizes now that he should have said nothing this incendiary.

2007-09-24 10:05:12
13.   dzzrtRatt
12 "made in China" that should be.
2007-09-24 10:13:50
14.   Eric Enders
12 "Simers has no influence anywhere."

I think we'd all love it if that were true. But it isn't. Just ask Paul DePodesta down in San Diego.

2007-09-24 10:15:35
15.   LogikReader
holy moly

first of all, I don't think anything rash is going to happen to the roster, but I made the analogy to express what I felt could happen.

ok, now, speaking of sports:

Milton Bradley out the rest of the year, tearing his ACL for having an... argument with an umpire? Plus, the umpire baited him into it. I'm a little behind in sports news... but wow!!!

http://tinyurl.com/2napjf

my first tinyurl :]

2007-09-24 10:16:07
16.   kinbote
8 - i agree that furcal back for one more year is not a bad situation. i just wonder if we might have to include him (with lowe, for example) to make something happen. abreu & hu could fight it out to replace him. in short, i think he's replaceable. (& if we try to clear some salary for an a-rod push, who knows?)
2007-09-24 10:18:17
17.   Bluebleeder87
as all of you know we have the nucleus of a good team, pitching:

starting 5

Penny
Lowe
Bills
Loaiza
Schmidt (if healthy at the bigining or do we sign Wolf?)

Bullpen

Beimel (Lefty specialist/acational stopper)
Brazoban (assuming he's healthy for '08)
Proctor/Meloan
Broxton
Saito

our hitting should be solid & assuming we get a power bat (A-Rod preferably) it can only get better.

2007-09-24 10:18:37
18.   Sam DC
15 Jon collects some of the Milton stuff in his linked Fungo.

And he smuggles Ken Tremendous into SI!

2007-09-24 10:18:58
19.   JoeyP
15--That article didnt say he tore his ACL. It said his knee was sore and he'd be having an MRI on it.
2007-09-24 10:21:02
20.   Terry A
18 - I read a piece by KT in the dead-tree edition of SI a few weeks ago. Something about Boston media, IIRC.
2007-09-24 10:21:06
21.   Jon Weisman
18 - Ken's had a one-page column in the magazine, so no smuggling was needed.
2007-09-24 10:21:17
22.   Bluebleeder87
15

from everything I heard the umpire TOTALLY baited him, I really hope MLB/commissioners office deals with the umpire accordingly.

2007-09-24 10:21:47
23.   LogikReader
The ACL news could have come (erroneously?) from an ESPN Radio report
2007-09-24 10:21:48
24.   Jacob L
If there's one thing the Dodger ownership/management cant' abide, its getting ripped to shreds in the local paper.
There will most assuredly be some sort of change in course due to this, in this instance it could as likely be for good as for bad.
2007-09-24 10:23:02
25.   Jon Weisman
Do I understand correctly that Ryan Howard has been given permission by the watchdogs to strike out 200 times? It's not being held against him?
2007-09-24 10:23:07
26.   LogikReader
Not erroneous, observe:

http://tinyurl.com/29eaqy

2007-09-24 10:23:57
27.   Jon Weisman
Pete Reiser column that I haven't had time to read yet:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6747

2007-09-24 10:24:03
28.   jasonungar07
If Furcal was healthy this year, everything would have been fine.
2007-09-24 10:24:51
29.   Humma Kavula
12 That's one side of it.

The other side is the old PR maxim: if you don't tell your story, somebody else will tell it for you.

In this case, though, I think you're right -- not to deprive the story of oxygen, but because now that I've calmed down about this, I think the real story may be that there's no there there.

Kent can be a horse's rear sometimes. Plaschke can write ill-considered columns. Simers likes to be the match that lights the powder keg. None of this is news... and WRT Simers, there can be no explosion if there's no powder keg. It's just a lit match in search of Big Boom.

2007-09-24 10:26:55
30.   Gen3Blue
15 It is incredible! Nice tinyurl:0)
2007-09-24 10:29:01
31.   Bluebleeder87
15

Helton heard IT ALL as well maybe they could get him to shed some light, even the MLB fantasy411 guys were on Milton Bradley side on this one & they work for MLB.

2007-09-24 10:29:20
32.   Eric Enders
15 Of course, the Bradley thing will be chalked up as just another example of him going ballistic. But I think it really needs to be looked at more carefully. Bobby Meacham, who witnessed the whole thing, made some very damning comments about unpire Mike Winters, specifically that Winters called Bradley an offensive name, unprovoked. Even Sandy Alderson, who used to be the umpire supervisor for MLB, ripped Winters a new one in the papers this morning.

Obviously, as far as the league and most of the public are concerned, that won't matter. Milton Bradley is a hothead with a reputation, who scares white people. Mike Winters is an umpire. So right and wrong is going to be decided based on those things. Not on what actually happened.

But while not denying that Bradley has big-time emotional problems, I think the problem of umpires' aggressiveness and baiting of players is a much more serious problem. Umpires, more and more often, are the ones picking the fights in the first place -- remember what we saw happen with Brad Penny earlier this year? It used to be just Joe West doing that sort of thing. Now it's a lot of them. And I don't think baseball has the will, or even the ability, to stop it. The umpires' union is so strong again that it's almost impossible for MLB to discipline an umpire now. (And when they do, we generally don't find out about it.)

Basically, we live in a world where umpires are completely and totally unaccountable for their actions -- not only unaccountable to their supposed bosses, but also unaccountable to the public. (Winters was prohibited from speaking to the media after the game.)

2007-09-24 10:30:07
33.   JoeyP
28--Furcal will need to step up his game in order to stick with Tulowitski, Rollins, Reyes, JJ Hardy, Hanley Ramirez.

Come to think of it, Furcal really is an average player at SS--given the influx of quality SS's in the national league over the last couple years.

13 mils buys you an average one nowadays I guess.

2007-09-24 10:34:55
34.   dzzrtRatt
14 If anyone at the LA Times did DePodesta in, it was Plaschke. Simers' influence is limited because his schtick is so obvious. He doesn't really believe anything he writes, he's just going for punchlines based on stereotypes of the people he writes about.

But I don't think the media really did much more than add to the sum of McCourt's pre-existing discomfort with DePo. I suspect it wasn't about baseball so much as management style, and DePo's inability to handle Jamie. Colletti is a former PR person, so he knows how to bow and scrape to big egos. DePo is both too smart and too dumb to participate in the perpetual dog and pony show the McCourts seem to want from their underlings.

2007-09-24 10:37:35
35.   dzzrtRatt
32 It'll be interesting to see if Selig fines anyone on the Padres for speaking out against the ump. The union is surely pressing him for it. If Selig disciplines the ump, you might see a strike before the world series.
2007-09-24 10:38:38
36.   JoeyP
Appears as if Mike Tyson will be going back to prison:

http://tinyurl.com/2jkavc

2007-09-24 10:39:40
37.   Eric Enders
34 "Simers' influence is limited because his schtick is so obvious. He doesn't really believe anything he writes."

Maybe. But it doesn't matter if he believes it. I think perhaps you overestimate the intelligence of the newspaper-reading public.

I agree that Plaschke was far more influential in DePo's firing. But Simers helped. And if he didn't have influence, he wouldn't have gotten access to Frank and Jamie McCourt so many times.

The fact that McCourt even considers what these two boobs have to say is black mark #1 against him in my book.

2007-09-24 10:40:24
38.   Bluebleeder87
dzzrtRatt is painting a not so pretty picture of the world as I know it.
2007-09-24 10:41:02
39.   Dodgers49
From the previous thread:

549. The worst thing about all these comments from Kent, Loney, Kemp, Lowe and so on is not exactly what is spoken, but the inability of Grady Little and the Dodger front office to manage this situation and keep this from continuing to be played out in front of the worst piranhas of the press (e.g. Simers).

For me, the fact that Derek Lowe chose to go public with his demand (that this must be settled by spring training even if it causes a fight) after Grady called a team meeting is a sign that Grady has lost this clubhouse. The "Vets" have put their "Player's Manager" in a pretty bad position.

2007-09-24 10:41:05
40.   Bob Timmermann
31
Helton just said it was "interesting."

However, I don't think he meant that Jeff Francis had a no-hitter at the time.

2007-09-24 10:47:09
41.   jasonungar07
33 Well there were quotes from Ned and Grady this weekend saying loosing Furcal made our whole offense inconsistent. I can find them if you all haven't read them.

I am a huge Bradley fan. I wrote here that he was our 2004 MVP, not Beltre which was sorta a crazy statement but I just loved the way he played the game. Very Kirk Gibson like to me...But at some point you have to walk away..He will never get that. It's sad really.

The reason stated for firing Depo was the club did not meet expectations. I think we know it was a personality conflict but say for a second it wasn't. Did this club meet expectations?

2007-09-24 10:49:15
42.   GoBears
Near the end of the previous thread, Paul Scott asked what I meant in worrying that Colletti would "buy in" to all of this garbage and ruin what could be a great thing. He made the point that much of this stems from Colletti (the PVL blather) and that he's at the root of the problem.

I completely agree. What I meant in this case (or at this step) was that I'm worried that he might take this latest sound and fury as an excuse to do what he so far has managed to avoid - dump the top prospects for PVL. It would complete the transformation of the Dodgers into the Giants, only without Barry Bonds to carry the offense.

And as I said, I'm not optimistic that Colletti will do the right thing.

2007-09-24 10:52:08
43.   Bluebleeder87
Doesn't it also say a lot about the McCourts in letting the media dictate what they do? I can almost garantee you that they know we have something special going on here with the kids... but to be fair to the McCourts there still pretty new at this "game" (sick game at times I might add) I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
2007-09-24 10:52:21
44.   regfairfield
16 Why is Furcal replaceable? Is there any situation where Hu or Abreu can beat out Furcal's amazing defense and above average offense? I can't see it. Is there any scenario where they don't come close? Plenty. Abreu and Hu are great candidates to put up .310 on base percentages until they get acclimated to the bigs. Furcal, even at his absolute worst this year, won't come near that.

The goal in baseball isn't to assemble the best young team, or the best team for the cost, it's to assemble the best team period. In 2008, the Dodgers best team involves Furcal, Lowe, Kent, Penny, and even Estaban Loaiza (for a bit, at least). I for one am sick of rebuilding, and we already have the tools to be a dominant team from 2008 or 2009 until the early part of the next decade. We don't need more prospects, we need all the good players we can get.

2007-09-24 10:53:27
45.   Gen3Blue
I've noticed an increase in possibly ump caused incidents over the years. And they wield a tremendous power in knowing which players are vulnerable to a little kick when the player is down. It therefore often looks like the ump said or did very little.
2007-09-24 10:56:00
46.   underdog
Yeah, I agree with Reg. I don't think because there are other excellent SS's in the NL makes Furcal "average" anyway. He's still above average in my book. He's had a disappointing season because he's played through most of it hurt. When he's 100% we've already seen what he can contribute to the team. If they trade Lowe and Furcal together, they'd sure as heck better get back some top ML ready prospects and/or another great player in return.
2007-09-24 10:56:36
47.   GoBears
44. I agree, but I'd say Furcal is certainly replaceable by Alex Rodriguez. That just ain't likely.

How about Hu's hitting this year? Have you, or has anyone looked a little deeper to see if it's for real? Is his BABIP out of whack? Is it a Vegas illusion?

2007-09-24 10:56:45
48.   briano
Say what you will about Simers. What he is describing about the Dodger clubhouse is true. What it shows me is the definite need for a new clubhouse leader: Kevin Kennedy. Kennedy would be what this team needs for next year. He's had quite some time off and would only take the Dodger gig. The time is now for a change. Kennedy is a Old school Dodger guy and let him bring in his staff and get to it.
2007-09-24 10:57:46
49.   Bluebleeder87
44

In my opinion we just need one more peace the the puzzle & thats A TRULY BONIFIED POWER BAT, A-ROD!!

2007-09-24 10:58:05
50.   Eric Enders
48 I don't think Jeanne Zelasko as the new third base coach would solve anyone's problems. Except maybe Derek Lowe's.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-24 11:00:24
51.   blue22
48 - Kennedy is a Old school Dodger guy

And if you don't believe that, just ask him. I hear he also has some managerial experience; I believe he mentioned it on-air once in passing.

2007-09-24 11:00:51
52.   briano
48

Don't be hatin' on Jeanne. At least she probably wouldn't send Drew and Kent home at the same time.

2007-09-24 11:01:08
53.   Bob Timmermann
Kennedy wasn't even interviewed as a candidate after Tracy was cashiered was he?
2007-09-24 11:01:45
54.   Jon Weisman
Briano is trying to kill me.
2007-09-24 11:01:49
55.   Bob Timmermann
52
I just want her to pronounce her first name as one syllable. That's the way proper people do.
2007-09-24 11:02:24
56.   briano
I love ya Jon. We need you.
2007-09-24 11:02:28
57.   Dodgers49
From the previous thread:

579. 577 I wonder how much of it is simply that Simers and Kent have become favorite sparring partners, if not buddies. Weren't they giving away together signed jerseys for charity earlier in the season?

This a big problem as I see it. Simers has an agenda but tries to pass it off as objective reporting. He's going to be all over Loney and Kemp for quite a while for "disrespecting" his buddy, Mr. Chuckles. His making up something about Kemp that didn't even happen the way he reported it (Kemp refusing to congratulate Abreu) is an example of what you can expect. And unfortunately, he does matter. Anyone who writes for a newspaper that's read by hundreds of thousands of people matters.

2007-09-24 11:03:18
58.   bhsportsguy
Once the team held off on making any deals at the trade deadline, I cannot see the Dodgers realistically thinking they could have pieced together enough eggshells to fix Humpty Dumpty.

I thought it then and I continued to think it now, the lack of moves and the plan to keep these set of youngsters together for the future gave Ned and Grady at least until 2008 to build something that can last for a few years.

2007-09-24 11:04:35
59.   regfairfield
Every time Grady does something that doesn't work out, Kevin Kennedy would have done the opposite thing and he agrees with every move that works.

How would we ever lose?

2007-09-24 11:05:38
60.   Gen3Blue
I guess I'm speechless.
2007-09-24 11:05:42
61.   Dodgers49
42. It would complete the transformation of the Dodgers into the Giants, only without Barry Bonds to carry the offense.

But Barry is going to be available. :-)

2007-09-24 11:05:49
62.   Joshua Worley
48

Oh, no ... you're joking, right?

I guess not. :-) Kevin Kennedy just isn't my idea of a good manager, or a good analyst, for that matter.

15

I hate the Padres but I'm also a big Bradley fan and I'm very upset with this umpire Winters. Obviously Bradley shouldn't be lingering in the batter's box after a strikeout or trying to attack an umpire, but it sure looks like what Winters did was worse.

I can't believe that Bradley's two baseball demons got him at the same time. His temper and his susceptability to injury, one feeding into the other.

I fear his will end up a "what might have been" career.

2007-09-24 11:05:50
63.   Jonny6
Despite the added twist of an umpire's direct involvement, the most recent Bradley episode was utterly predictable and any sympathy I might have for the guy has long since faded away.

If he was baited by the umpire, than that guy should be disciplined accordingly. However, the fact remains that Bradley's immediate response was to charge the guy. It doesn't seem like Bradley has learned much from his past troubles, and he's still the same troubled guy with an epic persecution complex (of course this incident will just solidify in his mind that the world is out to get him). So the umpire called him a name, does that give Bradley the right to run after the guy and beat the hell out of him? What if it was the 1st baseman instead, is Bradley than justified in charging that guy? If the umpire really did instigate this whole thing, Bradley could have gone a long way in rehabilitating his image by not responding on the field and then vociferously and indignantly taking up the matter off the field.

Instead, he reacted as everyone expected him to react, and simply managed to reaffirm his status as the league's premiere unstable hot-head. In no way should the umpire's actions be excused, but Bradley sealed his own fate with this latest episode. He will spend the next two seasons kicking around with teams like the Royals and DRays before he is unceremoniously dismissed from the league due to his atttitude and injury problems. Bradley will then fade away into oblivion only to reappear occasionally as a cautionary tale on the daily police blotter. I'm really not wishing this upon Bradley, but it's nearly as predictable as the sun will rise in east.

2007-09-24 11:06:32
64.   bhsportsguy
57 Simers doesn't like anyone who takes themselves seriously as it comes to sports, he see sports as entertainment, he doesn't care about 5 year plans, he only thinks teams should win for now because for most people, now is all that they care about.

That is his act, and he sticks to it.

2007-09-24 11:09:03
65.   bhsportsguy
If Kevin Kennedy ever became the Dodgers manager, we could here great quotes after the game like,

"when I managed the Red Sox, Roger Clemens..."

or "back when I was in the Dodgers organization and was manager of the year in Albq."

Then someone would remind him that he is a manager.

2007-09-24 11:09:22
66.   bhsportsguy
If Kevin Kennedy ever became the Dodgers manager, we could hear great quotes after the game like,

"when I managed the Red Sox, Roger Clemens..."

or "back when I was in the Dodgers organization and was manager of the year in Albq."

Then someone would remind him that he is a manager.

2007-09-24 11:10:55
67.   Joshua Worley
42

In my opinion, money and talent speak louder than any Proven Vet'ran Leadership blather, even to Colletti. These young players are cheap. And even to a batting average guy like Colletti it's obvious that they're good. If he really was the sort of want to dump the youth for veterans, he would have parted with Hu or Abreu to get Dotel or something.

2007-09-24 11:11:33
68.   blue22
I don't even know that Kevin Kennedy would make a bad manager (except no one ever, you know, interviews him for open positions). I just like the running gag.
2007-09-24 11:11:47
69.   Eric Enders
63 "If the umpire really did instigate this whole thing, Bradley could have gone a long way in rehabilitating his image by not responding on the field and then vociferously and indignantly taking up the matter off the field."

I agree with most of your post, but this part I think is unrealistic. Had he done that, everybody would have said "Same old Milton, there he goes popping off again." People's response to it would have been indifference at best, ridicule at worst. He would have rehabilitated nothing.

2007-09-24 11:14:05
70.   kinbote
44 - i guess i'm just not that big of a furcal fan. part of it has to do with his salary; part of it has to do with his erratic defense. also, with this unit, i'm not that crazy about players who are playing out their last years with us. additionally, we have multiple prospects who appear ready to compete for his job. lastly--and this is a terrible thing to admit--i really like martin batting 2nd, even if it means putting juan-for-five in the leadoff spot.
2007-09-24 11:14:44
71.   blue22
69 - Well, to be fair, he's the one that's responsible for creating this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for himself. I only have sympathy for his continual inability to control his temper. But whatever he gets, he most likely deserves.
2007-09-24 11:15:41
72.   ToyCannon
Rafy needs to be a key ingredient for the 2008 team. When I suggested at TrueBlue that Hu should be playing now, it was only because of Rafy's ineffectiveness due to his injury. When healthy, Rafy is a cornerstone to this team. I wouldn't extend Rafy but I sure want him to be the SS in 2008.
2007-09-24 11:16:48
73.   ToyCannon
65
Is that you being critical?
2007-09-24 11:17:02
74.   Eric Enders
Furcal's defense is a problem now?

I'm not on that bandwagon, sorry.

2007-09-24 11:17:14
75.   blue22
Wasn't Furcal the top position player in the division last year (thanks in part to Bonds' injury, but still)? I don't think he's to be replaced so easily.
2007-09-24 11:17:29
76.   Humma Kavula
68 I agree. I think Kevin Kennedy, like Grady Little and most managers, would be neither good nor bad. He would simply exist with little effect either way.

That's kind of a dada way of looking at the manager. Marcel Duchamp for manager! A urinal for third base coach!

2007-09-24 11:18:21
77.   jasonungar07
How abut Mueller for manager. He is paid more than Grady anyways.
2007-09-24 11:18:55
78.   regfairfield
70 Furcal has at least five or six more years left in him. How could you say a guy who is 29 and is still performing, defensively at the very least, is on his last legs. The only way you can say Furcal is a replaceable talent is if you completely ignore his defensive contributions, and that cuts out what makes him most valuable.
2007-09-24 11:19:29
79.   MollyKnight
I'm starting to get upset. As much as I love Kemp and Loney as players, I'm worried they are acting like jerks right now!!

What are we going to do if it turns out they aren't honorable guys?

:(

2007-09-24 11:20:40
80.   Eric Enders
Can we please just stop talking about the Kevin Kennedy option like it was real? There are only a small handful of people in this world who actually take Kevin Kennedy seriously. I didn't realize so many of them were here with us.
2007-09-24 11:21:04
81.   kinbote
it's too bad bradley got seriously injured on that "play"--otherwise, it was a perfect comic moment. anyone care to calculate how much money he cost himself with that one turn of events?
2007-09-24 11:23:04
82.   Ken Noe
80 I'm waiting for someone to bring up Terry Collins. Then we can also discuss who the new GM will be.
2007-09-24 11:23:27
83.   Jonny6
69
You could be right. But I think with the backing of the 1st base coach and the Padres organization, they could have showed that this was a highly unusual and unethical situation and that Bradley took the high road, as much as that pained him to do. Would it have changed EVERYONE'S perception of him? No, but it could have helped soften his image substantially if he showed some proof that people/the umps/the league really is out to get him.

The one thing I know for sure is that the outcome couldn't have been any worse than the current situation. Now, not only has he solidified his image as a ticking time bomb, but by injuring himself while being restrained from the umpire he has the added perception of being an idiotic clown. After all, who hurts themselves while arguing a call (the specifics of the situation will likely get lost in the retelling of the incident)? His career could probably survive the perception of being explosive, but I don't think he will overcome the added indignity of being "that idiot that hurt himself arguing with the ump".

2007-09-24 11:24:34
84.   ToyCannon
80
He got more support then Grady did in the manager poll.
2007-09-24 11:25:07
85.   kinbote
74, 75, 78 - i appreciate being shown the error of my ways (really). i'm a bit of a reactionary, and this point in a frustrating season, i'm inclined to just clean house. this is reason #3145 why it's a good thing i'm not the GM!

(i hereby withdraw all opinions on furcal's defense based on that one heart-breaking play . . .)

2007-09-24 11:25:15
86.   SG6
TJ's "mission statement":
"There's a lot of friction in sports. I find humor in that."

He is not a "sportswriter", but merely an "entertainment" columnist in the sports section.

He slams everyone equally, including his wife, and also us fans who continue to support the team thru 1 playoff win in 20 years. Right or wrong, he points it out.

He's brought in a ton of donations to Mattel Children's Hospital, so he's not a bad guy in my book. Sometimes sports gets taken too seriously (you should see my mood after a Dodger loss). Maybe we should try to find a bit more humor among the friction. So Kent gets ruffled that Loney "chats it up with" Chris Young during a key series in AZ? (this happened during a time out, Loney wandering over to 2B to chat with Young) Should he? Should we? This all boils down to attitude. You've got "care free" kids on one side, and the "desperate to win" PVLs on the other. Does either attitude affect performance between the lines? Probably not, but it certainly gives an illusion that one doesn't care as much.

2007-09-24 11:26:05
87.   bhsportsguy
73 80 Sorry bad attempt at humor. The closest Kevin Kennedy will get to managing the Dodgers is from his desk on Prime Ticket.

ToyCannon, don't you think that the only way the will even consider LaRoche at 3B next year is if Kent comes back? With a lineup of Furcal, Pierre, Loney, Kent, Kemp, Ethier and Martin, I think they would go with some sort of weird dance combo of Nomar and LaRoche but if Kent goes, they might do something else.

I can't see A-Rod being an option but I won't complain at all if he does come here.

2007-09-24 11:27:10
88.   blue22
81 - Here's Bradley's career salary history.

2001 Montreal Expos $207,000
2002 Cleveland Indians $221,000
2003 Cleveland Indians $314,300
2004 Los Angeles Dodgers $1,730,000
2005 Los Angeles Dodgers $2,500,000
2006 Oakland Athletics $3,000,000
2007 SD Padres $4,000,000
Career (may be incomplete) $11,972,300

He's "only" earned $12M to this point in his career. With his talent, he could've been signing a multi-year deal for $12M annually with the rest of this year's crop of CFers. Now? Notsomuch.

2007-09-24 11:27:16
89.   Eric Enders
79 I hear ya, Molly. But really, what are the chances of that? I mean, you've been in the clubhouse, right? You've met some of these guys. Do they strike you as jerks? Loney, in particular, came off as a very quiet, humble person. These guys have spent years playing their way through the Dodger system, and spent a year in the majors, without anyone ever questioning their character or makeup. Now the team gets eliminated and they all of a sudden become jerks?

And if they are jerks, what are we going to do? Hopefully win lots of games with them, like we did with jerks like Steve Garvey, Pedro Guerrero, and Jeff Kent, just to name a few.

2007-09-24 11:27:58
90.   Jon Weisman
Not a political comment:

I'm starting to picture Loney and Kemp as Dukakis in that great SNL skit. "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy."

In other words, "I can't believe I'm being put down ... next to those guys."

I've never imagined Loney or Kemp (just those two as examples) were total saints. I have no trouble believing they might be a little arrogant. But being young doesn't mean you aren't worthy of any respect either, and it seems to me these guys have been disrespected in significant ways. For Kent and Lowe to gain role model status surely must make them wonder.

2007-09-24 11:27:59
91.   kinbote
78 - i've since rescinded most of my [stupid] furcal comments, but what i meant by "players playing out their last years" referred to his contract, not his longevity. for the record . . .
2007-09-24 11:28:43
92.   Eric Enders
Quote on top of Matt Kemp's Myspace page:
"I don't pretend to be friendly, like most people do when they're trying to get to the top. I AM friendly."

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=43569574

2007-09-24 11:29:22
93.   LogikReader
89

I'm with Eric. Chemistry is overrated

2007-09-24 11:31:11
94.   Eric Enders
83 While I don't disagree with you, it's worth noting that John Smoltz has overcome the stigma of being "that idiot who burned himself trying to iron a shirt while he was wearing it."
2007-09-24 11:31:33
95.   sporky
It's official: Bradley DID tear his ACL. If ESPN says it's true, it has to be true, right?

http://tinyurl.com/29eaqy

(Sorry if it's been posted before)

2007-09-24 11:31:49
96.   dzzrtRatt
48 Come to think of it, has anyone ever seen briano and Kevin Kennedy in the same room....?
2007-09-24 11:32:14
97.   sporky
94 - big fat LOL
2007-09-24 11:33:04
98.   ToyCannon
Sporting events are not war and even though everyone wants to use war metaphors, it is just a game. This isn't 1955 when the Dodger players actually did hate the Giants because if they didn't make the World Series they didn't make any money. In 2007 baseball is entertainment, players on opposing teams get along because everyone is in the money. Life is good. Only the fans are left to carry on the silly acrimony between franchises.
2007-09-24 11:34:19
99.   Humma Kavula
I still think that Marcel Duchamp should be the manager.

Yes, I know he's been dead nearly 40 years.

My point stands, and I think M. Duchamp would approve.

2007-09-24 11:34:42
100.   capdodger
92 Oh, my. That's an ugly, almost arrogant Myspace page.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-24 11:34:52
101.   LogikReader
You know what, I just thought of this!

Remember last year when Joe Beimel cut up his hand at a bar before the NLDS? I thought that was a clubhouse tension issue as well.

There might have even been some folks either in the media or in the fan forums asking to ship him out. In the end, Beimel stayed and put together another solid season.

In the end, management is not as quick to jump to conclusions as I originally thought.

2007-09-24 11:34:55
102.   underdog
I know it was probably like this a few years ago, but I can't remember another time with the Dodgers where fans, players, management and sportswriters were all so equally crabby about the Dodgers.
2007-09-24 11:35:19
103.   Howard Fox
90 isn't Lowe the ideal role model for how athletes should live their lives both on the field and off??
2007-09-24 11:36:17
104.   underdog
99 Why not? The team's already fairly surreal as it is. It would seem readymade for a Dada manager.
2007-09-24 11:36:18
105.   sporky
92 - His MySpace page is a cyber-shrine to himself.
2007-09-24 11:38:17
106.   Eric Enders
102 IMO, this is nothing compared to 2005, when Simers and Plaschke used their conch shell to rally the public around the idea of DePo's head on a stake.
2007-09-24 11:38:35
107.   ToyCannon
89
Was Pedro a jerk? I know he wasn't the brightest guy but a jerk. For some reason that bothers me to see him painted with the same brush as Kent.
2007-09-24 11:39:25
108.   bhsportsguy
101 According an article I read this year, when Beimel apologized last year before Game 3, the issue for his teammates was a done.
2007-09-24 11:40:09
109.   dzzrtRatt
105 I dunno, I kind of liked:

Occupation: Enjoying life.

His MySpace page is no more a cybershrine to himself than 1,000,000 other MySpace pages.

Perhaps you don't have a teenager at home.

2007-09-24 11:40:28
110.   Jon Weisman
102 - It was 23 months ago.
2007-09-24 11:40:41
111.   bhsportsguy
106 I saw Plaschke in 2005 just a month into that season and he just could not stand DePodesta.
2007-09-24 11:41:00
112.   Johnny Nucleo
76 I guess it's too late to hire Marcel Marceau as manager.
Though I'm sure he'd be good at sending out signals to the third base coach.
2007-09-24 11:41:28
113.   Eric Enders
108 So it's settled then. Loney and Kemp simply need to gather their teammates around and apologize for being so freaking good at baseball.
2007-09-24 11:42:26
114.   bhsportsguy
110 I wasn't crabby at the end of 2005, I wasn't, I mean you talk about a team that needed everything to go right to win and nothing went right except Jeff Kent, how can you be crabby.

Now after October, that's another story.

2007-09-24 11:44:18
115.   Bluebleeder87
63

wow, pretty darn good write up Jonny6. I specially dig this part

However, the fact remains that Bradley's immediate response was to charge the guy. It doesn't seem like Bradley has learned much from his past troubles, and he's still the same troubled guy with an epic persecution complex (of course this incident will just solidify in his mind that the world is out to get him)

2007-09-24 11:45:42
116.   Dave G
90 - Jon, particularly interesting note that it's Lowe and Kent who are making the comments. To expand on your implications, that's "clubhouse stick-in-the-mud" Kent and "distractor of the team thanks to torrid affair with news reporter" Derek Lowe. Now, the interesting thing is that both of those guys can really play. But so can the kids.

It just strikes me that what we're seeing here is hypocrisy, plain and simple, when it comes to judging behavioral standards between the vets and the younger players. And nothing galls the intellectually honest like hypocrisy. But when it comes to sports, I think even the most intellectually honest sometimes take leave of reason in their passion for the team. Compounding on that, I would think that the inside of an MLB clubhouse isn't exactly your strongest bastion of intellectual honesty. For people like us, the frustration will go with the territory every time.

2007-09-24 11:46:06
117.   ToyCannon
114
I was crabby that Milton and Kent didn't go at it instead of whining to the papers.
2007-09-24 11:46:10
118.   underdog
110 I still don't remember it being quite this universally bad, within the clubhouse and throught fandom, but I could be repressing memories.

105/109 - Yeah, I was going to say, aren't all MySpace pages shrines to their subjects? It's all "look at me!" self-talk. His is no worse than most of 'em.

2007-09-24 11:47:19
119.   bhsportsguy
[113} If Loney had not made a direct quote aimed at Jeff Kent, this story would have died a few days ago.

I'm not saying James can't believe that but silence was the better option.

Probably could have been better served if Kemp doesn't add the bit about without the young guys what kind of team would it be too.

If they let it go, then this comes out as just disappointed veterans missing another chance at the ring, instead now we get some kind of dissention in the clubhouse that has people drawing sides.

I guess my point is, even if James and Matt are right, they should have just said nothing for their sake as much as the team.

2007-09-24 11:47:25
120.   underdog
Throughout, that is. Have no idea what a 'throught' is, but it sounds like what part of Milton Bradley Jeff Kent wanted to strangle (I'd forgotten about that).
2007-09-24 11:48:34
121.   bhsportsguy
117 And Milton got in trouble when he went to the papers after being told that it was now an internal matter.
2007-09-24 11:50:07
122.   sporky
109/118 - Touche. I missed the MySpace generation by a decade, thank god.
2007-09-24 11:52:20
123.   SG6
92 - I see Loney is listed as a "friend", but am still trying to find Jeff Kent in that long list...
2007-09-24 11:54:20
124.   ToyCannon
87
Ned has stated that no rookie will be given a starting job headed into spring training without competition. In two years we haven't seen a rookie leave spring training as a starting player in the rotation or on the field by having won the job. Loney played 1st in the 2006 opener only because of Nomar's injury. No, I don't think La Roche has any shot at starting at 3rd base on opening day, no matter what happens with Jeff Kent.
2007-09-24 11:54:51
125.   dzzrtRatt
I guess what Lowe and perhaps Kent resent is that the young players are here at all. They were supposed to be traded for Mark Teixeira, Octavio Dotel and, oh, maybe Paul Konerko; and the Dodgers were supposed to be heading for the playoffs already. Maybe in Lowe's mind the young players are "those a-holes management thinks are just as good as Teixeira."

In fact, they are just as good if you're talking about Loney and Kemp. But Lowe will never believe that.

2007-09-24 11:57:22
126.   jasonungar07
I guess my point is, even if Kent and Lowe and Gonzo are right, they should have just said nothing for their sake as much as the team.

---

T Maybe these 2 kids are sick and tired of the veterans crap and felt they needed to stand up for themselves. I surely would have at 23 considering the obvious. It works both ways.

No Kent, like in 05 when eliminated became a baby after not talking to anyone for 3 months.

2007-09-24 11:58:33
127.   bigcpa
I just observed that Beimel had a 7.05 ERA, 1.65 WHIP, 3.2 K/9 against RHB. That is unfortunate.
2007-09-24 12:00:12
128.   sporky
I'm relieved that this blowout received little to no national attention. It only concerned fans, and is protracted because of bored columnists who refuse to stop baiting players. TJ Simers should be proud.

Instead, we can focus on more important matters, like the poor sucker who was named Wrigley Fields, and the fate of Milton Bradley's ACL. I shouldn't be amused at his expense, but dammit, I can't help it.

2007-09-24 12:03:42
129.   bhsportsguy
128 Actually, Rob Neyer amd Michael Ventre addressed it on national web-sites and even back at the trade deadline, Will Carroll talked about the Dodger front office being divided on keeping and dealing some of the kids for now, so I think its been floating around for probably a few months.

Kent was the first to speak out publically about it.

2007-09-24 12:16:30
130.   Dark Horse
All of this is ridiculous. The vets--Kent, at least--are upset about losing. They don't like it, so they blow off steam. Unto themselves, Kent's comments didn't offend me. They were emotional, big deal. I'm sure the cumulative disappointment of not winning a WS over a career that long got the better of him. Plus he's crotchety, and we all know Derek Lowe's not exactly the brightest bulb on the block. So he pipes up. No, we're not going to trade our best young players in the offseason; yes, Ned is probably stupid enough to patch nonexistant holes with whatever happens to be available, which I'm sure will not be enough. He might make a good move or two and surprise us all, who knows? But Kemp and Loney will be here, and Kent, Gonzalez (who I loathe), Lowe and Garciaparra will be gone in '09, at the latest. Good riddance to them all.

Meanwhile, I can't help but be delighted about Bradley's knee. I know it's wrong, that schadenfreude is a weak person's emotion, but anything that hurts the Padres brings me joy. A podunk franchise that will go another year without significant postseason success yet again.

2007-09-24 12:19:55
131.   Kevin Lewis
Milton Bradley's behavior is always over the top, and it does not help his case. But, I too have seen an increase of verbal involvement between umpires and players. There was a game last year at the end of the season at Dodger stadium...I forget who the visiting pitcher was, but he made a motion after a called ball and turned around. Instead of letting it go, the home plate umpire took off his mask, stepped in front of Martin, and started walking towards the mound. It just looked like the umpire was asking for more and wanted to light the fire on the situation. I am concerned that the home plate umpire even said anything to Milton about the first base umpire claiming he threw the bat at him after the strike out. Why even have that discussion before the at bat? Just do your job as the umpire and don't chat it up with the players in the middle of a game.
2007-09-24 12:21:00
132.   capdodger
130 Well, I'd hardly call Los Angeles podunk, but if you inist...
2007-09-24 12:21:25
133.   Eric Enders
130 "Gonzalez (who I loathe)"

Amen, brother. Gonzalez is rapidly moving up my list of 25 least favorite Dodgers of all time. He's about #5 with a bullet right now.

Remember when Ken did a list like that for the A's? Remember who #3 was?
https://catfishstew.baseballtoaster.com/archives/406318.html

2007-09-24 12:22:42
134.   capdodger
131 Just do your job as the umpire and don't chat it up with the players in the middle of a game.

Funny... That's what the rulebook says, too.

2007-09-24 12:22:44
135.   Terry A
Wasn't it alleged (or proven) that Kent had a hand in DePodesta's ouster? That he met with McCourt in the days following the 2005 season but prior to the ax falling?
2007-09-24 12:27:12
136.   Bob Timmermann
If the Yankees don't rally, Seattle and Detroit will live another day. But there could be a flurry of fish on Tuesday. It could come down to when particular games end to determine the order.

Judging by the entries for the Griddle Contest, it's wide open.

2007-09-24 12:39:33
137.   sporky
129 - I just dug up a Michael Ventre article. Yeesh.
2007-09-24 12:40:50
138.   Kevin Lewis
My neighbor just put this sign up on his window

" To Dodger Fan Friends: Better Luck Next Season"

With an Angles logo at the bottom. What should my sign response be?

2007-09-24 12:41:12
139.   Linkmeister
130 I object. Schadenfreude is a joy. It's right up there with a good cold plate of revenge.
2007-09-24 12:41:30
140.   Bluebleeder87
I still think Ned will make a splash this off season, I just hope it's of the superstar caliber We're L.A. after all aren't we?
2007-09-24 12:41:53
141.   Bob Timmermann
138
"Good luck in the postseason!"

Take the high road.

2007-09-24 12:42:07
142.   ToyCannon
133
That is great. I'd love to do one of those.
2007-09-24 12:42:37
143.   Linkmeister
138 "Where was your team from 1962-1986?"

That's off the top of my head; if the Angels made it to the post-season between their inception and the Donnie Moore game, I apologize.

2007-09-24 12:44:05
144.   Jon Weisman
Finally:

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/abox/article_1851119.php

2007-09-24 12:44:47
145.   adamclyde
Wow, go on vacation and this is what you come back to. A coworker reminded me of this:

It's 1992 and this new little Mets youngster, for whom David Cone was traded, causes a ruckus because he won't go along with the mild hazing by his new team's veterans. He's derided for not being a team player. For all I know, he may have even been criticized for not being disrespectful.

The youngster in question? Jeff Kent, of course: http://tinyurl.com/2ngdlj

No commentary on this really, but it's interesting to look back at some clubhouse controversy with Kent playing the role of the youngster. He's not being criticized for apathetic play or "not caring enough," true. But clearly there's a generational gap here. But he's on the young end of it this time.

2007-09-24 12:47:41
146.   JoeyP
The only way you can say Furcal is a replaceable talent is if you completely ignore his defensive contributions

Measuring his defensive contributions is the problem. How can you be sure your accurate? How many runs with his glove is he knocking in?

If the team can get A-Rod, you put A-Rod back at SS and trade Furcal's contract.

Furcal (13 mils), Gonzo (7 mils), Tomko/Hendrickson (7 mils)----that pays for A-Rod next year. Pretty straight forward to me.

I just think A-Rod's a must signing if the team wants to take that next step.

Furcal was worth his contract last year. This year, he hasnt been. He's being bypassed (at least offensively), but quite a few NL shorstops.

This team needs power.
Not slappies.

2007-09-24 12:47:49
147.   Dodgers49
One last thing I forgot to mention concerning the bag of flour that was dropped on the Dodgers Stadium infield during a game in '71. Because fans were concentrating on the game, no one got any numbers of a light plane that had flown overhead to report to the FAA. To my knowledge, the pilot of that plane was never identified. And the perpetrator(s) of this stunt was never caught.
2007-09-24 12:48:39
148.   regfairfield
138 Ask him to name an Angel that played on the team before 2002 besides Wally Joyner.
2007-09-24 12:50:24
149.   underdog
I'd love to see one of those least favorite lists, too, for Dodger players, but speaking of taking the high road, given how much cynicism is floating out there these days (with some good reasons), I'm almost more inclined to want to see a "Most Favorite Dodgers" player list just to do something un-sour.

But then we can follow up with the Least Favorite list because that'd be more fun. ;-)

2007-09-24 12:50:42
150.   regfairfield
146 When every defensive metric agrees he's a great shortstop, he's a great shortstop. Sure I'd ship him off for A-Rod, but I was referring to replacing him with Hu or Abreu.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-24 12:51:23
151.   Linkmeister
148 Oh, now wait. Steve Bilko! Albie Pearson! Dean Chance! Bo Belinsky!

(Can you tell I lived in LA when the team was established?)

2007-09-24 12:54:10
152.   Bob Timmermann
143
Where were you in 1979 and 1982?

If Mauch had only brought in Andy Hassler instead of leaving Luis Sanchez in!

2007-09-24 12:54:18
153.   oldfan60
I believe Simers is a really bad guy. Not a bad writer, a bad person.
Moving on to Ned, I can't believe so few of you give Ned no credit for not trading the top prospects.
How would you like to have Teixeira and Dotel right now, with Loney, Kershaw, Broxton, Abreu and Hu gone? Are you looking forward to next year, the last one with Teixeira here? And a bright future of last place for years.
2007-09-24 12:54:29
154.   Linkmeister
From the Whicker column Jon linked to above (the OC Register one):

"You could heat the Yukon with all the deadwood that lives in the Dodgers' room."

Great line.

2007-09-24 12:55:06
155.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
149
I'll take a crack at the least favorite list:

The Dodgers' 1999 25-man roster, minus Carlos Perez (of course!), plus Kevin Malone.

2007-09-24 12:55:33
156.   Linkmeister
152 Okay then.

(Scuttles off)

2007-09-24 12:56:47
157.   bhsportsguy
148 I can name a bunch.
My favorite All Pre-1992 Angel Lineup

LF - Brian Downing
SS - Rooster Burleson
1B - Rod Carew
DH - Don Baylor
RF - Reggie Jackon
2B - Bobby Grich (my favorite player)
3B - Carney Lansford (with apologies to DeCinces)
CF - Gary Pettis
C - Bob Boone

Sad to say that a lot of these guys had stops in Anaheim that were connected but they could never get everything to click to take it all. One of my biggest sports disappointments was not seeing Bobby Grich in a World Series.

I also remember "Tanana and Ryan and two days of Cryin." (or maybe it was three by then.)

2007-09-24 12:57:27
158.   sporky
144 - Yay, Mark Whicker!
2007-09-24 12:58:09
159.   Jon Weisman
153 - He gets partial credit for me for those non-moves. But most of his non-non-moves leave me cold.
2007-09-24 12:58:21
160.   JoeyP
150--I dont think anyone would suggest to dump Furcal and replace him with Abreu bc they think Abreu/Hu are better. Its more about payroll allocation.

Is Furcal worth 13 mils?
Is Hu + (another player for 13 mils) worth more?

It obviously depends on what you'd use the other 13 mils for--->

I'd gladly exchange some defense, for power pitching and high OPS hitting.

2007-09-24 12:58:46
161.   bhsportsguy
152 Really, Grady leaving Pedro in pales in comparison to the 1986 ALCS Game 5, top of 9th inning.

Even though Angels had two shots to win the series after that game, you just knew they were done.

2007-09-24 12:59:17
162.   ToyCannon
144
What a great find.
2007-09-24 12:59:20
163.   Bluebleeder87
144

Seriously, but we all knew that already anyway. it just makes Simers & Plaschke that much worse

2007-09-24 12:59:45
164.   regfairfield
153 Just because a team in an entirely different situation did something that turned out well doesn't make Ned any smarter. At least, it doesn't make him any smarter relative to any GM not named Schureholtz.
2007-09-24 13:00:05
165.   Bob Timmermann
My favorite Angels all-stars

C - Art Kusyner
1B - Bob Oliver
2B - Bobby Knoop
SS - Jim Fregosi
3B - Paul Schaal
LF - Alex Johnson
CF - Ken Berry
RF - Leroy Stanton

2007-09-24 13:00:10
166.   bhsportsguy
Jon, check your link at the top, its going to the 25 All-Time A's list.
2007-09-24 13:00:33
167.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
160
e.g., That 13 million could get us two more years of Luis.
2007-09-24 13:01:26
168.   bhsportsguy
165 You are not that old!

What about Leon Wagner?

2007-09-24 13:02:42
169.   Bob Timmermann
168
Big Daddy Wags was before my time.

So was Bobby Knoop, but the others weren't.

2007-09-24 13:03:00
170.   regfairfield
I don't know if any team would give up valued prospects for taking one one year of Furcal at 17 million. If we were to not just make that a straight salary dump, we'd have to take on some other fairly costly player in return, negating a lot of the freed up cash.
2007-09-24 13:03:24
171.   Jon Weisman
166 - Crazy. Thanks.
2007-09-24 13:10:19
172.   goofus
138 A rock.
2007-09-24 13:11:12
173.   bhsportsguy
Whicker said in about 1000 or so words what should have been talked about since August.
2007-09-24 13:12:38
174.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I vote for Whicker to be our new GM!
2007-09-24 13:12:45
175.   JoeyP
The Cubs could still be interested in Furcal. I think they'd take him on given their apparent deep pockets now if they dont get A-Rod.

I dont think the Dodgers would get much propect wise for Furcal, but dumping his salary could work.

Dodgers need to dump salary the way Jerry West did when he went all out to get Shaq. Granted West was working within a cap, but McCourt's budgetary cap is very similar.

2007-09-24 13:16:30
176.   trainwreck
In a recent interview, Jason Bateman said there has been talk of an Arrested Development movie.
2007-09-24 13:23:32
177.   ToyCannon
"You could heat the Yukon with all the deadwood that lives in the Dodgers' room"

Cast call for the Dodger Deadwood. Is Jeff Kent, Bullock or Hearst. And who is E.B. Farnum?

2007-09-24 13:24:12
178.   bigcpa
The BTF thread on Simers' column has sparked Kemp trade fantasies.
2007-09-24 13:24:27
179.   ToyCannon
173
It has been.
2007-09-24 13:26:16
180.   bhsportsguy
I meant besides here. :)
2007-09-24 13:27:11
181.   Bluebleeder87
checking fungoes, Bob is just to funny for his own good, oh man...
2007-09-24 13:29:15
182.   underdog
177 I thought Kent was Al Swearengen?

That Whicker piece is awesome. The one true, sane piece written about the Dodgers in a SoCal newspaper since the you know what hit the fan.

2007-09-24 13:29:41
183.   surfing slug
Is Diamond Leung insinuating Kemp is conceded?

http://tinyurl.com/yore3y

2007-09-24 13:30:06
184.   underdog
178 BTF?
2007-09-24 13:35:08
185.   ToyCannon
182
He doesn't have a soft enough spot underneath the tough exterior to be Al.
2007-09-24 13:35:30
186.   bigcpa
184 Baseball Think Factory. Not that this isn't a think factory.

http://tinyurl.com/2mtfec

2007-09-24 13:36:06
187.   Eric Enders
Kent - Al Swearengen
Colletti - E.B. Farnum
Grady - Richardson
McCourt - George Hearst
Russell Martin - Seth Bullock
James Loney - Sol Starr
Matt Kemp - Hickok
Derek Lowe - Jack McCall
2007-09-24 13:38:57
188.   Ken Noe
177 Seth Bullock...Russell Martin
Alma Garrett...Alyssa Milano
Sol Starr...Takashi Saito
Wild Bill Hickok...Nomar Garciaparra
Doc Cochrane...Stan Conte
A. W. Merrick...Bill Plaschke
E. B. Farnum...Ned Colletti
Brom Garrett...Frank McCourt
Al Swearingen...Jeff Kent
Ellsworth...Juan Pierre
Wu...Hu
Charlie Utter...Grady Little
George Hearst...Arte Moreno
Johnny and Dan have me stumped
2007-09-24 13:41:06
189.   Ken Noe
187 Almost had Loney as Sol. Nomar's a better Wild Bill, the hero who dies early. Lowe as McCall is inspired.
2007-09-24 13:42:22
190.   blue22
183 - Is the synonym for arrogant spelled "conceded" or "conceited" (or something else entirely)? I'm confused.
2007-09-24 13:43:38
191.   scareduck
BTW, good on you Jon for not linking to Simers' piece. He doesn't deserve the time of day, mostly.
2007-09-24 13:44:30
192.   ToyCannon
187
I love your last two.
2007-09-24 13:45:03
193.   CanuckDodger
So Anaheim has Mark Whicker while L.A. has Simers and Plaschke? I begin to think there is a correlation, and perhaps a cause-effect relationship, between the quality of a city's newspaper sports columnists and its baseball team.
2007-09-24 13:45:19
194.   Kevin Lewis
141

I was thinking along the same lines

2007-09-24 13:45:47
195.   Dark Horse
"Conceded?" Good grief. Apart from the fact I wouldn't want Kemp "conceded" for anyone this side of Miggy Cabrera, what Diamond Leung offers up as possible evidence of high self-opinion seems a little vague to me, to say the least.
2007-09-24 13:46:30
196.   scareduck
190 - c-o-n-c-e-i-t-e-d.
2007-09-24 13:46:56
197.   Erin
Thanks for the plug, Jon.

Everyone else, if you want to read a fan's perspective on the Dodgers, Red Sox and (coming soon) Spurs, stop on by! I think it's worth your time.

Erin

www.bluethoughts.com (for now)

2007-09-24 13:47:01
198.   D4P
In a recent interview, Jason Bateman said there has been talk of an Arrested Development movie

The happy tastes like happy. I just hope they can get everyone on board.

2007-09-24 13:47:54
199.   blue22
196 - Phew, I thought I was going crazy there. Thanks.
2007-09-24 13:49:29
200.   Marty
Mark Whicker is my hero.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-09-24 13:53:28
201.   MollyKnight
89& 90-

In my warm little heart, I'd hoped that all of these kids (who are my age) would turn out to be like Russ Martin: unbelievably hard-working and freakishly lovable human beings. I'm starting to realize that the rest of them might not be that way.

Matt Kemp is completely different than he used to be, IMHO. He doesn't make eye contact with reporters anymore, and if he's already flashing his teeth at Simers, that's not good. He should have just played dumb like Ethier and Martin (with regards to Kent's comments) or given a healthy "No comment."

I don't know if he feels burned by guys like TJ, but he's definitely not the doe-eyed kid I met in June of 2006. Does that make him a jerk? Maybe not. But my concern meter is starting to flicker a bit. I'm saying this, all the while admitting that I'm more excited about his potential than any other Dodger.

2007-09-24 13:57:05
202.   D4P
As far as I'm concerned, Jeff Kent and Derek Lowe have done nothing to earn the respect of younger players. On the contrary, they've behaved in ways that would quite reasonably make someone respect them less.

"Oh Jeff, I have so much respect for you for lying about how you injured yourself because you actually injured yourself doing something you weren't supposed to be doing."

"Oh Derek, I have so much respect for you for having sex with that reporter when you were still married to your wife who was also the mother of your children."

2007-09-24 14:02:20
203.   D4P
And Kent/Lowe/Simers calling Kemp and Loney jerks is like the vat calling the cauldron dark-colored.
2007-09-24 14:03:03
204.   Sammy Maudlin
Happy 68th birthday Dick Nen! Happy 43rd to old friend Jim Neidlinger!
2007-09-24 14:05:08
205.   Eric Enders
Earlier this year, I was one of the people complaining that Dodger fans boo for no good reason. Well, now there's a good reason. I would be delighted to hear a loud chorus of boos raining down upon Kent, Lowe, and Gonzo during the final homestand.
2007-09-24 14:08:01
206.   D4P
205
And I wouldn't just be saying "Luuuuuuu-Go"
2007-09-24 14:08:50
207.   Jon Weisman
After all these years, I still don't quite understand the mentality as far as linking stories at BTF. I mean, I love Repoz, but I don't get why 90 percent of the Dodger stories they link there are Plaschke and Simers and other poor work. Why isn't BTF broader with what it links?
2007-09-24 14:09:25
208.   Eric Enders
206 Although there would be a terrific double entendre in that.
2007-09-24 14:10:09
209.   MC Safety
193- What a coinky dink! I especially loved the motorcycle exhaust jab at Kent.

Mike Gallo ( former situational lefty on the Houston Astro's ) told a friend some pretty funny stuff about Kent. High, horse, ivory, tower and plateau are words that come to mind when I think of the name Jeff Kent.

2007-09-24 14:11:02
210.   blue22
I know it seems obvious, but this was the first explicit mention I saw that Gonzo won't be back next year:

Luis Gonzalez said Sunday he will not be back with the Dodgers next season.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/98068

2007-09-24 14:13:57
211.   Eric Enders
207 Because the vast majority of posters are only interested in beating up on the mainstream press for its stupidity. Nobody wants to read the well-written stuff because then they can't vent or unload in the comments. When the good articles do get posted, they rarely get commented on.

Of course, I enjoy beating up on the mainstream press as much as the next guy. But they take it to extremes.

2007-09-24 14:14:45
212.   underdog
210 Anti-climatic but good to have it official. I wonder if he'll beg the DBacks to take him back... Actually, he would make a decent DH somewhere. But, so long, Gonzo.
2007-09-24 14:15:35
213.   D4P
Veteran teammates gave Gonzalez a bottle of champagne after he collected his 2,500th career hit here Friday

Cue Simers et al.: "Jerk kids don't contribute to Gonzalez's champagne"

2007-09-24 14:15:40
214.   Jon Weisman
211 - So having a lot of comments is the raison d'etre, as opposed to informing?
2007-09-24 14:16:39
215.   MC Safety
205- Wow considering how animated your argument was and your labeling of booing as primal, classless, caveman talk, thats a statement.
2007-09-24 14:17:39
216.   MC Safety
oops with the coma's.
2007-09-24 14:17:56
217.   Eric Enders
214 Yeah, I don't know. I gave up trying to understand quite a while back. I'm kind of surprised the site hasn't yet imploded on itself like a dying star.
2007-09-24 14:19:04
218.   D4P
imploded on itself like a dying star

I call that a "Britney"

2007-09-24 14:19:08
219.   Eric Enders
215 If you go back and actually read what I posted back then, you won't find anything remotely like what you characterized.
2007-09-24 14:20:56
220.   Jon Weisman
218 - No, it's a Jan.
2007-09-24 14:23:49
221.   underdog
"We got your 'too young' right here, Kent!" headlines the BlueNotes blog's latest entry.

http://tinyurl.com/238sxl

2007-09-24 14:23:58
222.   Jacob L
201 I concluded long ago that it was best to assume that all athletes are jerks, unless and until proven otherwise. I suppose there's good reason, or at least justification, for elite athletes to be jerks, anyway.

That said, and on the occasion of Luis announcing his intention to not return to LA, can we get started on the "Least Favorite Dodgers" list. It just sounds like so much fin. If everybody throws in one name, I bet we'll have 25 within the hour. I'll start: Juan Samuel (purposely avoiding the obvious ones).

2007-09-24 14:26:17
223.   underdog
Also, these were Brian K's comments in that same blog entry when asked about the character of the Dodgers youngsters:
>>In my interactions with all the young guys, I haven't found any to be "jerks" in the traditional sense. Kemp is definitely immature, and has a lot to learn. On the other hand, he's very young, hasn't spent much time in the minors. So really, is it all that surprising? Ethier is perhaps a little moody, and I've always gotten a whif or arrogance from him, but at the same time, it's not like talking to him is unpleasant. Loney really just doesn't talk all that much period. Is he a little cocky? Sure. You would be too if you hit all your life like he has. But he seems like a nice enough kid, and he plays hard.

We don't see everything that goes on, but from my perspective, they're really not much different than most young players I run into across sports. Martin happens to be prenaturally mature, but most aren't like him. Could they turn out to be "jerks?" Sure. Thye might also mature into great team leaders. Or somewhere in between. A lot of guys are both. But it's not all that important that they all be fantastic guys. Assuming they don't evolve into clubhouse cancers, they just need to be dudes who play hard and work to improve. They're baseball players, not our BFFs.

I think a lot of this is addressed at Kemp, because he is the least mature, possiblly the most talented, and has a long way to go. But for TJ to zero in on him at this point in his career is like shooting fish in a barrell. He can get whatever out of Kemp he needs to write whatever he wants, because he's far more savvy about this stuff. << [sic]

2007-09-24 14:26:18
224.   Eric Enders
I believe Juan Samuel would be #1 on my dad's list.
2007-09-24 14:27:49
225.   regfairfield
217 Despite the general lameness of the comments, it is pretty much the only site where you can view every little insignificant news item in baseball, so it still has that going for it.
2007-09-24 14:27:53
226.   Eric Enders
223 That sounds pretty much right-on to me.
2007-09-24 14:30:06
227.   WillieD
105 I like your tag, "sporky." I'm unable to view myspace from this computer. However, it seems like a lot of people, famous or not, tend to show how enamoured they are with themselves, on their myspace page. Sounds like Kemp does too. He has never struck me as lacking in positive self-image, so it makes sense.
2007-09-24 14:30:09
228.   blue22
223 - Andrew Kamenetzky has a comment just under that one that as well. Both good reads.
2007-09-24 14:30:13
229.   Terry A
223 - "prenaturally" mature?
2007-09-24 14:31:34
230.   blue22
229 - Martin came from the womb with that 5-day old scruff in tact.
2007-09-24 14:32:08
231.   D4P
No, it's a Jan

Jan who...?

2007-09-24 14:33:21
232.   blue22
231 - Freshly augmented and unemployed...
2007-09-24 14:33:48
233.   Jon Weisman
225 - Viva La Griddle!
2007-09-24 14:34:08
234.   Jon Weisman
231 - Jan Levinson, fka Jan Levinson-Gould.
2007-09-24 14:34:29
235.   Bluebleeder87
I'm o.k. with Dodger jerks if:

1)they don't hit there wifes
2)don't drink & drive
3)they work there tails off in the off season to be better athletes
4)sit in the corner reading motorcycle mags

I can't think of anymore at the moment.

2007-09-24 14:37:06
236.   MC Safety
219- It wasnt a jab at you Eric, and I actually do read the things posted here as opposed to.....umm....making things up. If I wasnt busy I would look but I remember it becoming quite heated with many shots aimed at overall fan IQ with some of those words. At some point the fans have to voice displeasure, I mean were not gonna let Brett Tomko go 2-18 are we?
2007-09-24 14:38:24
237.   LogikReader
218 231 234

Hahahahaha. Now I'm dyin' for Thursday night at 9pm (8pm Central).

Time for a nice cup of morning Jannnnn

2007-09-24 14:42:08
238.   Humma Kavula
Even if the worst was true and they're all jerks, what of it? I work with a bunch of jerks. They also work hard on their stuff and for the most part don't bother me. They probably think I'm a jerk, and they're probably right. We all have to work together, and it all comes out all right in the end.

But apparently, in sports, that doesn't apply.

2007-09-24 14:42:43
239.   Jon Weisman
Via 6-4-2, this piece from U.S.S. Mariner:

http://ussmariner.com/2007/09/24/the-danger-of-veteran-entitlement

2007-09-24 14:43:04
240.   kinbote
222 - todd hundley
2007-09-24 14:43:58
241.   Bob Timmermann
233
But now the Griddle is just a series of pictures of fish.
2007-09-24 14:44:32
242.   D4P
Jan Levinson, fka Jan Levinson-Gould

I see that Jan is from "The Office", which explains why I didn't get the allusion.

Even if the worst was true and they're all jerks, what of it?

And if they are jerks, why are Jeff Kent and Derek Lowe of all people being given a free pass?

2007-09-24 14:46:03
243.   Dodgers49
From Gurnick:

>> One of Kent's frustrations is that in his opinion, today's kids seem even more resistant to deferring to and respecting their elders than past generations, at least in a big league context. It's compounded by how quickly some are rushed to the Majors with so little fundamental foundation. <<

http://tinyurl.com/29ujnb

2007-09-24 14:48:39
244.   bhsportsguy
238 The difference, particularly in baseball, is that from March 1 through September 30 or a little longer, you are around your co-workers almost everyday. Sure you can get away both at home and away games but you still are around them for almost 6-7 hours everyday for 7 months.

That is why, mostly in baseball, does chemistry in the clubhouse become an issue.

2007-09-24 14:49:46
245.   sporky
241 - But very amusing fish!
2007-09-24 14:50:28
246.   Jon Weisman
243 - James Loney spent nearly six years in the minors. Was that enough, I wonder?
2007-09-24 14:51:31
247.   blue22
243 - Then this is all directed at Matt Kemp then?

Martin is Mr. Fundamental and no one can say Loney was rushed to the bigs.

2007-09-24 14:51:43
248.   Eric Enders
Okay, I came up with a list. I really feel bad about putting Nomar on the list, but I could only come up with 24 Dodgers I genuinely disliked.

25 Least Favorite Dodgers of All Time:

1. Delino DeShields
2. Dixie Walker
3. Chad Curtis
4. Carlos Perez
5. Luis Gonzalez
6. Juan Samuel
7. Jeromy Burnitz
8. Brett Butler
9. Marquis Grissom
10. Shea Hillenbrand
11. Juan Pierre
12. Juan Encarnacion
13. Darryl Strawberry
14. Brett Tomko
15. Mel Rojas
16. Andy Ashby
17. Bobby Bonilla
18. Tommy Lasorda
19. Julio Lugo
20. Enos Cabell
21. Jeff Hamilton
22. Devon White
23. Todd Worrell
24. Lance Carter
25. Nomar Garciaparra

2007-09-24 14:52:22
249.   LogikReader
239

Now that was a little harsh, wasn't it?

2007-09-24 14:52:27
250.   Jon Weisman
244 - I spend 45 hours a week with my co-workers, 11 1/2 months a year. So who's got it worse?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-09-24 14:52:53
251.   blue22
248 - Chad Curtis? There has to be a story there...
2007-09-24 14:53:10
252.   regfairfield
246 If Ryan Howard couldn't get called up until he was 25, ain't no one can get called up until age 25.
2007-09-24 14:53:47
253.   Eric Enders
246 In every baseball generation, it's always been de rigeur to say that young players are fundamentally unsound because they don't spend as much time in the minors as they used to. The facts, however, show exactly the opposite: The average amount of time players spend in the minors has gradually increased over the years.
2007-09-24 14:54:49
254.   Humma Kavula
248 If you're looking for a Dodger you somewhat dislike to replace Nomar, I humbly suggest Chad Kreuter.
2007-09-24 14:54:53
255.   regfairfield
248 Surprised that Jeff Shaw or Danys Baez didn't make the list.

I personally have it out for Antonio Osuna.

2007-09-24 14:55:10
256.   Terry A
246 247 - It's becoming increasingly clear to me that, yes, this is mostly about Kemp.
2007-09-24 14:55:49
257.   Eric Enders
I can't believe I forgot Todd Hundley. Sorry, Nomar, you're off the list.

251 Curtis had the rare combination of being both a self-righteous jerk and, while with the Dodgers at least, a truly awful baseball player.

2007-09-24 14:56:36
258.   ToyCannon
"deferring to and respecting their elders than past generations"

Gack, I hated that when I was a pup and I hate it just as much now. You earn respect you don't get it just because your old.

2007-09-24 14:57:05
259.   Dodgers49
223. I think a lot of this is addressed at Kemp, because he is the least mature, possiblly the most talented, and has a long way to go. But for TJ to zero in on him at this point in his career is like shooting fish in a barrell. He can get whatever out of Kemp he needs to write whatever he wants, because he's far more savvy about this stuff. << [sic]

That's what bothers me. Having Plaschke zero in a Gary Sheffield is one thing. Having Simers zero in on a 23 year old just starting his major league career is an entirely different ball game. This is just too easy.

2007-09-24 14:58:58
260.   bhsportsguy
250 I have spent way too much time with my co-workers too.

But then, my salary isn't published and my work product is not fair game to be criticized by anyone who has played the game regardless of what level.

So while no one is holding a benefit for any of the players, sometimes a little empathy is not too much to ask.

2007-09-24 14:59:50
261.   Dodgers49
248. 25 Least Favorite Dodgers of All Time:

1. Delino DeShields
2. Dixie Walker

Delino ahead of Dixie Walker? WOW! It wasn't Delino fault that Fred traded Pedro. :-)

2007-09-24 15:00:26
262.   ToyCannon
25 JD Drew
24 Davey Lopes
23 Jose Gonzalez
22 Chris Gwynn
21 Rick Sutcliffe
20 Odalis Perez
19 Jeff Hamilton
18 Dave Anderson
17 Don Stanhouse
16 Rudy Law
15 Dusty Baker
14 Rick Monday
13 Gene Michael
12 Bob Bailey
11 Wilton Guerrero
10 Kevin Gross
9 John Tudor
8 Roger Cedeno
7 Jeff Kent
6 Dave Goltz
5 Bobby Bonilla
4 Gary Sheffield
3 Kevin Brown
2 Delino DeShields
1 Jody Reed
2007-09-24 15:01:20
263.   Dark Horse
248-No late-period Odalis? No Scott Erickson? No list of mine would be complete without Jason Phillips, grimacing behind his goggles after another late-inning strikeout.

I can't hate Delino. I hate what he represents, hate that we have to hate him, but in his own right he was kinda cool. I remember seeing him, Eric Davis and Strawberry together at a P-Funk concert. It's a bitter memory, but at the time it just meant the team had soul.

2007-09-24 15:02:17
264.   Terry A
By the end of his LA career, I couldn't stand Mark Grudzielanek.

And Jim Eisenreich bugged me, too. Too danged twitchy.

2007-09-24 15:02:26
265.   Dodgers49
Make that Delino's
2007-09-24 15:02:45
266.   Bob Timmermann
262
The fact that ToyCannon even thought of rating Gene Michael in the pantheon of Dodger enemies has made him the coolest guy here.
2007-09-24 15:04:29
267.   trainwreck
I am probably the only person that would have Sheffield on my favorite Dodger list.

I was just too young to know all the previous jerk-like things he had done.

2007-09-24 15:04:50
268.   D4P
Jeff Kent belongs on any list of 25 least favorite Dodgers. Being a good hitter doesn't make one likable.
2007-09-24 15:06:31
269.   blue22
1. Todd Worrell
1a. Tom Goodwin.
1b. Todd Hollandsworth
2007-09-24 15:07:56
270.   MC Safety
I was never too fond of Greg Gagne but that rubbed off on me from my pops so it doesnt count. I dont think I liked too many veterans when I was younger either, but I dont know why he didnt like Greg Gagne? There arent to many Greg Gagne types around anymore.
2007-09-24 15:08:02
271.   JoeyP
These veterans would be much more tolerable if they were directing their anger towards Juan Pierre.
2007-09-24 15:10:36
272.   Humma Kavula
I have rarely hated a player as much as I hated Julio Lugo.

I mean, I started a blog railing against Juan Pierre, and I still don't hate him as much as I hated Julio Lugo.

2007-09-24 15:10:40
273.   underdog
Why so much hate for Jeff Hamilton? Because he was a disappointment? I don't disagree, per se, but just don't remember much about his personality.

D Baez would definitely be on my list. At first I was considering Tom Niedenfuer for the pain he brought in one game, but most of the time he was a Dodger I didn't mind him at all.

Stanhouse was a jerk and a gyp and even refused to give me an autograph when I was a little kid, so he's way up there on my list. Jose Offerman would probably make my list too, for being a horrible fielder and a disappointment and many other things.

2007-09-24 15:10:42
274.   bhsportsguy
I could never put Dusty on any least favorite Dodger list. His post-Dodger career has no bearing to me for that type of list.
2007-09-24 15:10:54
275.   Terry A
271 - Or if many of them didn't have another year on their Dodger contracts.
2007-09-24 15:12:07
276.   Humma Kavula
256 It's becoming increasingly clear to me that, yes, this is mostly about Kemp.

This is only cementing it for me: on Wednesday, when I attend the game, I'm buying a Matt Kemp T-Shirt.

2007-09-24 15:12:10
277.   blue22
This is an odd situation in baseball, since these guys don't come in with huge guaranteed contracts (like the NBA) or massive signing bonuses (like the NFL). The fact that they want playing time commensurate with their ability, not their hype or bank account, is kind of refreshing when compared to the other leagues.
2007-09-24 15:12:16
278.   screwballin
263 Yeah, I was shocked Erickson wasn't in the top 5.
2007-09-24 15:12:17
279.   Jon Weisman
260 - You've lost me. What's the point you're trying to make? What are we not being empathatic enough about?

269 - What the heck did Todd Hollandsworth ever do?

2007-09-24 15:14:37
280.   MollyKnight
BK is right: Russ Martin is one in a million. And if Matt Kemp hits 40 home runs next year, I really don't care if he makes eye contact with reporters. I just don't want him to become Simers' favorite target. That's gonna get really old, really quickly. He needs to stand there and smile and talk to him in cliches for fifteen minutes while giving him nothing.
2007-09-24 15:14:40
281.   regfairfield
I haven't been alive long enough to develop any decent hatreds, so I'll leave it at 15.

15 Jason Grabowski
14 Juan Pierre
13 F.P. Santangelo
12 Omar Daal
11 Jeff Shaw
10 Milt Thompson
9 Bobby Bonilla
8 Alex Cora
7 Kaz Ishii
6 Delino DeSheilds
5 Jose Offerman
4 Paul Lo Duca
3 Mark Hendrickson
2 Antonio Osuna
1 Gary Sheffield

2007-09-24 15:15:12
282.   bhsportsguy
Why do you hate guys who for no fault of their own, were either traded for or signed for a big contact?

Did Delino DeSheilds ask to be traded to the Dodgers for Pedro Martinez, did Julio Lugo begged to go to the Dodgers?

Now Julio Lugo, okay, he did not set the world afire while here but he did net two draft picks the Dodgers would not have had otherwise, but if you disliked him for his play here, I can understand that.

I guess there is no real rationile for dislike or even hate so maybe I am battling windmills.

2007-09-24 15:15:13
283.   ToyCannon
274
Lee Lacy and Jimmy Wynn were traded for Dusty. That was enough to get on the list since they are both in my top 10 favorite list.
2007-09-24 15:15:25
284.   JoeyP
Least favorite Dodgers (from recent memory):

Devon White, Eric Karros, Izturis, Cora, Dave Roberts, Encarnacion, Jim Tracy, Brian Jordan, Darren Dreifort, Juan Pierre, Tomko, Hendrickson, Carlos Perez, Luis Gonzales, Nomar.

2007-09-24 15:16:08
285.   blue22
279 - It's odd, he's one of those guys I guess I just had an irrational frustration towards. I remember in 2000, when he was traded, I was thinking "no matter how this year ends, it's a success because we got rid of Hollandsworth".

Unfortunately, we traded him for Mr. 1a up there, who came complete with a longer contract and less talent.

2007-09-24 15:17:15
286.   ToyCannon
282
Because expectations were large, performance was negligible. Each person has a reason for being on the list and in only a few cases was it their own fault.
2007-09-24 15:18:03
287.   JoeyP
280--Matt Kemp doesnt have to say anything to reporters if he doesnt want to. If Simers wants to blast the Dodgers best player in the future, that will make Simers look bad not Matt Kemp.

Simers can write a ton of hate against Kobe. That doesnt change the fact that virtually everyone on the planet realizes he's a great player and without him the Lakers are nothing. Of course, with him they are just above nothing.

2007-09-24 15:18:48
288.   MC Safety
281- Alex Cora cant be on any list for me after that marathon AB he turned into a homer.
2007-09-24 15:18:48
289.   screwballin
282 Lugo and all other wife beaters move right to the top of the list.
2007-09-24 15:18:51
290.   Eric Enders
282 Even before Lugo got traded to the Dodgers, I disliked him for smashing his wife's head into the hood of her car. After he got here, I disliked him for having the gall to complain about playing time and the positions he was asked to play. He was too awful to be making demands.
2007-09-24 15:19:14
291.   underdog
Yah, I think people have different rationales for a least favorite Dodgers list. I'm looking at players I just didn't like, because of their personality and their (lack of) effort.
2007-09-24 15:20:07
292.   Eric Enders
I would imagine Bob hates Todd Hollandsworth, too, since he is Matt Herges' brother-in-law.
2007-09-24 15:20:50
293.   Daniel Zappala
One of the antidotes to this nonsense (targeting Kemp) is to start a "Kemp's Korner" seating area in right field.
2007-09-24 15:20:54
294.   RELX
My Dodger "Least" list, in no particular order:

1. Gary Sheffield
2. Luis Gonzalez
3. Bobby "Bobo" Castillo
4. Paul LoDuca
5. Jeff Kent
6. Dave Goltz
7. Don "Stan the Man Unusual" Stanhouse
8. Fred McGriff
9. Devon White
10. Brett Tomko
11. John Candalaria
12. Kevin Brown
13. Ken Howell
14. Bill Madlock
15. Steve Garvey
16. Ted Power
17. Joe Simpson
18. Brent Mayne
19. Terry Mulholland
20. Tyler Houston
21. Rickey Henderson
22. Daryle Ward
23. James Baldwin
24. Tom Goodwin
25. Kevin Malone

2007-09-24 15:21:07
295.   regfairfield
291 Heck, I have about seven on my list. I don't even remember why I hate Milt Thompson, but I do.
2007-09-24 15:22:35
296.   MC Safety
279- I believe its a case of what he didnt do more than anything, I think people expected alot more out of Todd.
2007-09-24 15:23:24
297.   Bob Timmermann
292
I have given up my animus toward Matt Herges and Todd Hollandsworth.

But I do have a relational database set up to keep track of my grudges. So when I type in "peaches" in to my grudge database, I also get back "Ty Cobb."

I spent 152 man hours designing it.

2007-09-24 15:24:53
298.   Daniel Zappala
157 My list of favorite Angels (pre-2002) would be similar to yours. Those were great memories.
2007-09-24 15:24:56
299.   MC Safety
294- Tyler Houston!!! If I hadnt heard that name then I might have forgot about him forever. LOL
2007-09-24 15:25:05
300.   ryu
No one here hates Mike Blowers?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-09-24 15:25:34
301.   Eric Enders
297 The real test of the database not whether it spits out Ty Cobb, but whether it also gives you Peaches Graham and, therefore, Billy Maharg.
2007-09-24 15:25:59
302.   blue22
Paul LoDuca is a founding member of my Love/Hate club (my favorite player when in the Blue; despised upon leaving).
2007-09-24 15:26:14
303.   bhsportsguy
298 Wow, maybe I should stop now since someone liked something I said today.
2007-09-24 15:26:36
304.   underdog
So I missed something. Why are we doing least favorite Dodger lists and favorite Angels lists? Is it because the latter are in the playoffs?
2007-09-24 15:27:15
305.   Eric Enders
304 Because Luis Gonzalez announced he is leaving the Dodgers.
2007-09-24 15:27:32
306.   underdog
Next thing ya know someone will have Jack Fimple on their LFD list, and that's where I draw the line!
2007-09-24 15:27:53
307.   underdog
305 Shouldn't we be in a good mood because of that, though?
2007-09-24 15:28:01
308.   Eric Enders
The Angels part, I have no idea. My favorite Angel, to the extent that I have one, is Wonderful Willie Smith.
2007-09-24 15:28:23
309.   MC Safety
300- I got a Mike Fetters. ( Non Performance )
2007-09-24 15:29:13
310.   underdog
My favorite Dodger list would include The Penguin, Orel, and both Russell Martin and Steve Yeager at the catcher position.
2007-09-24 15:29:53
311.   trainwreck
294
Why do you hate Bret Mayne?
2007-09-24 15:29:53
312.   RELX
305. Is he leaving tonight? Does he need a ride?
2007-09-24 15:31:40
313.   RELX
311. Because having him as the regular catcher for the final two months of 2004 was like having a cadaver behind the plate.
2007-09-24 15:32:23
314.   blue22
One of my first favorites was Franklin Stubbs, since he was a LH 1B (as was the 11-year old me) and he led the Dodgers with a whopping 23 dingers in '86 (the year I started collecting baseball cards, which told me this information).
2007-09-24 15:35:38
315.   MC Safety
Quite telling that Steve Howe hasnt made a list yet but Darryl has.
2007-09-24 15:35:42
316.   jasonungar07
Eric Davis makes my list. Not because I don't like him but because he was so darn good and then came here and....nothing.
2007-09-24 15:37:40
317.   dzzrtRatt
The problem with these lists are whether we should be talking about genuinely irritating people, irrespective of talent, or just Dodgers whose presence, through no fault of their own, was an affront to the fans.

If it's the former, my least favorite is Eric Karros. You can tell me all day that he had a good year or two in his career and I don't care. His selfishness embodies the Dodger 90s failures. It made things worse for me that Fred Claire was so geeked out about him. "Why don't you want a lefty in your lineup, Fred? How can you think 20 home runs is enough from your first baseman? Why does he always slump in April and shrug it off, even though it always helped put the Dodgers far down in the standings? Why would you keep him and not try Konerko?"

As opposed to Juan Pierre, who seems like a great guy, who just should be doing something else than playing centerfield for the Dodgers. He doesn't make up the lineup card. He doesn't want to be this bad. He doesn't have that Karros, 'I got my hits' attitude. He's trying hard. He just doesn't have the talent for job he's been handed. I would be delighted to have him on my softball team if I had a softball team. Just not starting for the Dodgers.

Generally, I like the Dodgers and try to find good things about them. But I will admit to disliking Mark Grdzlanek, Marquis Grissom (I don't walk, man. I'm a leadoff hitter, and I don't walk.), Darryl Strawberry, Jeromy Burnitz, Odalis Perez, Ismael Valdes, Scott Erickson, Roger Cedeno and Bobby Bonilla.

2007-09-24 15:39:52
318.   neuroboy002
Can someone explain what the following people did to draw your ire? (maybe I'm too young to re-call)

- Brett Butler (I liked him as a leadoff hitter and CFer)
- Juan Samuel (I hated his streakiness for hitting and his avg was never too high)
- Antonio Osuna (At one point, wasn't he supposed to be our closer-in-the-making)
- Todd Hollandworth (he did keep sticking his tongue out when he was batting but I don't think that is good enough reason)

Jeff Shaw should be on a list. He was never save automatic and we gave up on a good young 1st baseman to get him.

2007-09-24 15:40:07
319.   ToyCannon
295
Andrew your email from TrueBlue says it full and keeps getting returned.
2007-09-24 15:42:47
320.   Terry A
319 - Hey, aren't you a rookie over there? Andrew's earned the right to have a full mailbox; check the back of his bubblegum card sometime if you don't believe me.

You can't teach experience.

2007-09-24 15:43:08
321.   Daniel Zappala
Dodgers favorite - Reggie Smith, Orel Hershiser
Angels favorite - Bobby Grich, Jim Abbott
2007-09-24 15:43:24
322.   bhsportsguy
I think I have put out an holier than now attitude today, and for that I apologize.

I saw the Hurricane Jeff coming when the comments came out last week and while I may have tried to not to take a side, I should realize that others here who have strong opinions about it that are as valid as my own and should be allowed to freely discuss them in this forum.

Once I saw that now I find myself being defensive about my original position, I realized that I was taking this way too seriously and again I should take my own advice and if I have nothing of value to add, don't repeat yourself.

Certainly, everyone has a right to dislike or like players for whatever reason they choose.

So, again, keep up the discourse and I hope the Dodgers can close out the season like last year with a 7 game winning streak.

2007-09-24 15:45:01
323.   bhsportsguy
321 You and I are so simpatico, now if you tell me that you liked Ron Cey ten times more than Garvey, we should do a High Five if and when we ever meet.
2007-09-24 15:46:32
324.   WillieD
238 Speaking of working with jerks... After watching the Jeff Kent edition of In My Own Words, I found myself quite happy that I don't have to work with that guy. He seems to have a pretty negative attitude, and it comes through very clearly.

I was glad when the Dodgers signed Kent, having always liked him as a player. He's the sort of guy who ought to just keep quiet though. He may have some good work habits and such that others could pick up on, however, he has such a whiney, bitter way of putting things. Just set your example, Mr. Kent.

2007-09-24 15:48:08
325.   Bob Timmermann
322
In reality, you're just holier than some.

Everyone is pretty much holier than some other person.

2007-09-24 15:48:20
326.   Daniel Zappala
321 Ron Cey twenty times more than Garvey. A high five is definitely due. Does the 'bh' stand for Beverly Hills? I used to live there.
2007-09-24 15:48:23
327.   regfairfield
319 It's a symptom of not being able to access at work, then being exhausted when I get home.

I hate Osuna because it seemed like he was guaranteed to blow the game every time he came in. In retrospect, this probably wasn't true.

2007-09-24 15:48:43
328.   Wilbert Robinson
Tim Brown on the Dodgers in case you missed it. 2nd time today the Dodgers have been described as an embarrassment.

http://tinyurl.com/2txkxb

2007-09-24 15:49:48
329.   Daniel Zappala
325 Do you keep track of that in your database too?
2007-09-24 15:50:23
330.   Bluebleeder87
248

5. Luis Gonzalez
8. Brett Butler
9. Marquis Grissom
16. Andy Ashby
21. Jeff Hamilton

Wow, how can you hate those guys Eric?, from everything I've heard they were all swell guys, Andy Ashby use to help out the equipment crew.

2007-09-24 15:52:35
331.   Disabled List
Least-favorite Dodgers that ought to be mentioned more than once:

Davey Johnson
Carlos Perez
Everyone else on the 1999 team
Daryle Ward
Todd Worrell
Darryl Strawberry
John Tudor
Milton Bradley (yes, the guy's a jerk)
T.J. Simers (just because)

2007-09-24 15:52:45
332.   Bob Timmermann
329
I've ranked approximately 3.5 billion people today in order of holiness.

I have no ties.

There was a tough call to make between a 5-year old boy in Chile and a 6-year old girl in Uzbekistan.

The Uzbek girl got the higher rank.

2007-09-24 15:52:51
333.   bhsportsguy
326 It just bugged me so much when no one talked about Reggie Smith, who for a short time was clearly the best player on the team.
2007-09-24 15:53:22
334.   CeyHey10
326 Ron Cey ten times more than Garvey (as per the number, see above :)).

Times two.

2007-09-24 15:53:50
335.   Dodgers49
325. But what he really said was: holier than now

So maybe now he is no longer holy.

2007-09-24 15:55:24
336.   bhsportsguy
335 You are correct, and I should have said holier than thou.
2007-09-24 15:55:48
337.   RELX
Top 25 Dodger favorites (in no particular order):

1. Bob Welch
2. Jerry Reuss
3. Reggie Smith
4. Mike Scoscia
5. Fernando Valenzuela
6. Orel Hershiser
7. Kirk Gibson
8. Ron Cey
9. Burt Hooton
10. James Loney
11. Russell Martin
12. Hideo Nomo
13. Rick Monday (for his playing days; live in NY, don't have to listen to him on the radio)
14. Dusty Baker (as a player only)
15. Alejandro Pena
16. Joe Ferguson (because he hit that 10th inning home run that beat Houston in 1980, and then tossed his helmet into the crowd.)
17. Steve Sax
18. Greg Brock (thought he was going to be a star)
19. RJ Reynolds (see Greg Brock)
20. Eric Gagne
21. Takashi Saito
22. Rick Rhoden
23. Derrel Thomas
24. Steve Yeager
25. Tommy John

2007-09-24 15:57:32
338.   Terry A
15 - Nice choice. I'd forgotten about Alejandro Pena.
2007-09-24 15:58:06
339.   Terry A
(That should be #15 on the list in 337 , by the way. Links is fun!)
2007-09-24 15:58:42
340.   Eric Enders
330

Gonzalez - Thinks he's a better player than he actually is. Ludicrously, complains about playing time. Is treated as a saint by the press because he's nice to them. I get the impression that he's actually something of a backstabber.

Butler - I've explained this one so many times that I suspect most people here are tired of hearing it. You can check out posts 34-51 of this thread:
https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/724675.html

Grissom - Just his extremely lousy play on the field, nothing more. He drove me crazy because he was always swinging for the fences and he'd never take a walk.

Ashby - We gave him a lot of money and got no return on it. Nothing personal.

Hamilton - This one is pure irrationality on my part. He was an awful player, but there are lots of awful players and I'm not sure why I chose him to pick on. Every memory I have of him involves him either (a) striking out, or (b) being the losing pitcher.

2007-09-24 16:00:57
341.   bhsportsguy
340 I think he is annoyed that the Diamondbacks have moved on since the 2001 World Series Title.
2007-09-24 16:03:41
342.   Eric Enders
Also, and I realize it means little in the grand scheme of things, but everytime Gonzalez or Pierre launches one of those pop-gun throws I just want to tear my hair out.
2007-09-24 16:06:44
343.   Marty
Here's my 25:

1. Todd Hundley
2. Daryl Strawberry
3. Tom Niedenfuer
4. Carlos Perez
5. Giovanni Carrera
6. Bobby Bonilla
7. Juan Marichal (for a couple weeks)
8. Don Stanhouse
9. Dave Goltz
10. Jody Reed
11. Zoilo Versailles
12. Enos Cabell
13. Mike Marshall (General Soreness, not Iron Mike)
14. Jose Offerman
15. Odalis Perez
16. Wilton Guerrero
17. Ismael Valdez
18. Karim Garcia
19. Franklin Stubbs
20. Luis Gonzalez
21. Kal Daniels
22. Bob Miller
23. Juan Pierre
24. Julio Lugo
25. Paul Lo Duca

2007-09-24 16:07:43
344.   KG16
Wow, so LuGo ain't coming back? Cool, I'm down with that.

As for my favorites and non-favorites:

Favorites: Hershiser, Fernando, Scoscia, Piazza, Lo Duca, Martin, Sax, Garvey (though I only vaguely remember him with the Dodgers, more a by-product of my parents' influence), RM1, Gagne, Gibson, Butler, Offerman (only because one of the first games I remember attending at Dodger Stadium was when he hit a homerun in his first ML AB, and then stole a base later in the game, the Dodgers lost 2-1)

Non-favorites: Charles Johnson, Jeff Shaw, LuGo, Tomko (I have the same nickname for him that Boston fans have for Bucky Dent), Kevin Brown.

I could probably do a full blown list, but that would take too much time.

2007-09-24 16:09:14
345.   blue22
340 - Jeff Hamilton capped off this great game from '88 with a walk-off homer off of John Franco (Gibby had an MVP day that day too). The ball landed in my section near the foul pole and the place was going bananas. I always liked Hamilton, especially after seeing that in person.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1988/B09110LAN1988.htm

2007-09-24 16:09:35
346.   Eric Enders
343 General Soreness should have been a character in Dr. Strangelove.
2007-09-24 16:10:59
347.   Eric Enders
345 Yeah, I totally remember that game. For purposes of this list I was choosing to forget about it, I guess.
2007-09-24 16:11:20
348.   Bob Timmermann
Seeing all the lists makes me wonder why people think I hate too many people or cities or pitted fruits.
2007-09-24 16:13:27
349.   blue22
347 - Well, it just shows how subjective all of these "lists" and "rankings" are. I dug Hamilton mostly because of that one game; you didn't like him in spite of that one game.
2007-09-24 16:14:35
350.   LogikReader
LuGo is now declared ready to leave... That means the 2008 OF is set with no more 4th OF necessary to flesh it out... right?? please Ned?
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-09-24 16:15:34
351.   Jacob L
It was me who suggested making these LFD lists, but seeing them, my reaction is to stick up for many of the players mentioned. Seeing Bobo Castillo on somebody's list was definitely disconcerting. There must be a story to that.
2007-09-24 16:16:16
352.   regfairfield
350 Torii Hunter is just like Matt Kemp with several hundred times more PVL.
2007-09-24 16:16:30
353.   jtrichey
Molly, no offense, but aren't some of your comments about jerks and non-jerks what Dodger Thoughts tries to walk away from? You see these guys in the clubhouse under completely unnatural circumstances. Why do their actions there have to mean that they are jerks or not jerks in the rest of their life? I don't mean to pick on you, but you are the one there. Luis Gonzalez can be very nice to reporters and still be a jerk in some other aspect. Matt Kemp can not make eye contact with reporters (?) and still be a great guy to his friends and family. Why does there have to be a connection?
2007-09-24 16:18:38
354.   bhsportsguy
350 Delwyn Young and Jason Repko are two candidates, Repko might have the edge since he is considered the only one capable of filling in at CF. But Young is out of options and can just flat out hit so who knows.
2007-09-24 16:18:50
355.   KG16
352 - only if Pierre is included in a package for... something
2007-09-24 16:20:26
356.   Bluebleeder87
340

You know what, you just sparked some memory I remember being pretty angry at Grissom for those very reasons & actually being PO'ed at some of the CF plays he didn't make (I was actually more mad he didn't have any emotion some times)

2007-09-24 16:20:44
357.   dzzrtRatt
I'm truly saddened by what happened to Milton Bradley, on many levels. It's a Greek tragedy.

If the Padres get ousted from the post-season, it will be nowhere near as sweet now. Milt got screwed and thus the Padres got screwed.

Life is unfair.

2007-09-24 16:20:49
358.   underdog
350 Presumably! With Delwyn Young and Repko capable backups (assuming you can keep the latter away from anyone valuable in spring training), there should be no need to add a washed up veteran OFer. Power should come from either 2nd and or 3rd next year, and that depends on whether Kent stays and whether they give LaRoche a chance (or if A-Rod graces our team, which is unlikely).

337 Yay!
Great list.
For whatever reason I probably wouldn't h ave Monday on mine, and am too young to remember Rhoden, but it's otherwise fairly close to how mine would look. I should do this later.

2007-09-24 16:23:01
359.   underdog
353 Not to put words in Molly's mouth but I was taking what she wrote to mean that she doesn't care whether Kemp makes eye contact, etc., personally, but that he still needs to learn a bit about communicating with the media, interpersonal skills, so he can rise above it. Even if media includes cranky crackpots like TJ Simers. That's what I thought, anyway.
2007-09-24 16:23:05
360.   Jacob L
Jeff Hamilton, hmm, no strong feelings.

Plus side - started for World Championship team.

Minus side (and I think the reason many people here have been down on him) - blocked Dave Hansen, a demonstrably better player, and documented good guy.

2007-09-24 16:24:46
361.   bhsportsguy
But who sang "The Lollipop Song."

http://tinyurl.com/yo8vak

This story got more coverage than I recall, though I did not hear if the Angels had their rookies dress up.

2007-09-24 16:24:56
362.   underdog
Dave Hansen will definitely make my top 25 list.
2007-09-24 16:26:28
363.   blue22
352 - I'm thinking Aaron Rowand (Ethier traded for whatever pitcher he can get). Neither Hunter nor Pierre will allow themselves to play anywhere but centerfield - that's bad for team chemistry. Rowand will play any OF position (and will show Kemp and Loney how a veteran smacks face first into the outfield wall).
2007-09-24 16:27:14
364.   nick
353 I could not agree more; would use full caps if it wasn't a rule violation.....for years people thought Steve Garvey and Pete Rose were great guys because they were good at kissing journalistic....uh, donkey. Being nice to the media is pretty low on the list of important human virtues, and only a media professional would think otherwise.

Slight aside...anybody remember that Bill James essay on Steve Carleton on the media? from the Historical abstract, I think? He says Carleton's problems with the media marked a sort of turning point, a loss of innocence as sportswriters professionalized and became journalists. The money quote [approximated from memory]: "Carleton was surprised to find that reporters were mostly _______s; no modern ballplayer would be surprised by this....."

2007-09-24 16:27:49
365.   Bluebleeder87
345

one of my childhood best friends went to that game & came home happy as hell I remember him telling me how it all unfolded.

2007-09-24 16:28:43
366.   Jacob L
I also like RELX's list in 337 . Have irrational love for Burt Hooten. Would have Yeager much, much higher. Rick Rhoden - heckuva golfer. I'd like to trade Monday (who I disliked even as a player) to Marty's "bad Dodgers" list in 343 for Giovanni Carrara. I like Carrara for 2 reasons:
1. performed well only while with the Dodgers
2. name like opera star
2007-09-24 16:32:44
367.   fordprefect
318
Juan Samuel deserves disrespect for not hustling out infield hits. I couldn't believe the lackadaisical non-effort I witnessed him exhibit at DS. His picture must be next to the "lollygagging" entry in every dictionary that contains the word.
2007-09-24 16:33:21
368.   Daniel Zappala
348 You'll notice my list was very short. And didn't include anyone I hate, just people I like. So I will continue to push peaches eaten in SF.
2007-09-24 16:34:49
369.   fordprefect
Just caught BT's entry on Fungoes. LOL.
Bob, you seem rather busy for someone who's so short on sleep.
-Better living through chemistry? :D
2007-09-24 16:34:51
370.   Bob Timmermann
368
Dare I eat a peach in Baghdad by the Bay?
2007-09-24 16:36:35
371.   Daniel Zappala
370 While at a Giants exhibition game. The ultimate test.
2007-09-24 16:36:51
372.   Jacob L
Rosh Hashanah was last week. Peach season is over.
2007-09-24 16:37:12
373.   regfairfield
My personal "bad Dodgers" list

Matt Luke
Tripp Cromer
Trindad Hubbard
Jolbert Cabrera
Scott Radinski
(Sadly) Hee-Seop Choi

2007-09-24 16:37:44
374.   Bob Timmermann
369
I'm taking a nap almost as soon as I get home from work. I might not even wait.
2007-09-24 16:39:36
375.   Daniel Zappala
By the way, I have to mention I hate those hazing stories where the rookies dress up or sing. I despise hazing in any form, having been picked on far too much as a kid. Bob, you can keep one thing on your list of things to hate, as I have one thing on my list. Which of the many things you hate do you hate the most?
2007-09-24 16:42:22
376.   Jacob L
373 O.K. that needs some 'splainin. Matt Luke should have received some credit for living in the same dorm as me, plus he was kind of inconsequential as a Dodger. Not enough of a presence to even warrant being disliked. I thought everybody liked Radinski on account of the whole punk rock thing. I'm not touching your last entry.
2007-09-24 16:43:33
377.   Bob Timmermann
375
What do I hate the most?

Peaches.

2007-09-24 16:45:09
378.   Jon Weisman
376 - Luke was a poor man's Jack Fimple, a folk hero for a season. I don't understand that one. For that matter, I'm not sure I understand most of those.
2007-09-24 16:47:56
379.   underdog
I think Reg thinks "bad" here means literally not good, as opposed to unlikable?
2007-09-24 16:49:22
380.   regfairfield
379 That was pretty much it. Pretty much just random bench players I got attached to. Luke was one of those guys that would do well whenever I went to a game, so I liked him a lot.
2007-09-24 16:50:33
381.   blue22
380 - Oh, you like those players? That makes more sense.
2007-09-24 16:50:46
382.   Jacob L
378 Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I don't recall Luke having the impact of a Fimple, who himself was the poor man's Chad Fonville.
2007-09-24 16:51:59
383.   Eric Enders
Okay, I am absolutely going to forget some people, but here goes. This is limited to guys from my lifetime, so, for example, no Jackie Robinson, although I'm sure he would have been a favorite of mine.

25 All-Time Favorite Dodgers

1. Kirk Gibson. When you're 11 years old and the guy who is already your favorite player (a) wins the MVP and (b) hits the most dramatic homer of all time, well, you tend not to forget that.

2. Ramon Martinez
Shameless plug: http://www.ericenders.com/ramon.htm

3. Fernando Valenzuela. There has been a poster of him on the wall of my childhood bedroom for as long as I can remember. At least 25 years. It's still there.

4. Orel Hershiser
5. Russell Martin
6. Mike Scioscia
7. Dave Hansen
8. Raul Mondesi
9. Eric Gagne
10. Adrian Beltre
11. Pedro Guerrero. My first favorite player.
12. Jose Offerman
13. Brian Traxler - Like me at the time, he was a short, fat, left-handed, singles-hitting first baseman.
14. Mickey Hatcher
15. Pedro Martinez - Mostly because of his brother.
16. Takashi Saito
17. Darren Dreifort - Always rooted for him because of his tenacious demeanor. And I like pitchers who can hit.
18. Manny Mota
19. Bob Welch
20. Eddie Murray
21. Tim Belcher
22. John Wetteland - When I was 11 years old, and he was in AA ball, he spent 15 minutes talking to me about playing the guitar.
23. Henry Rodriguez
24. Jay Johnstone
25. Steve Schmoll

My first year as a hard-core baseball follower was 1985, so I was just a few years too young for the Lopes-Cey-Garvey era.

2007-09-24 16:52:02
384.   MC Safety
Luke Prokopec
2007-09-24 16:52:05
385.   bhsportsguy
Trainwreck - Hot rumor from Westwood.

What little I know about UCLA admissions aka Murphy Hall would make it seem impossible that now former Notre Dame sophomore tight end, Konrad Reuland, from Mission Viejo, could possibly have everything in line to start classes this week at UCLA.

But the story has legs so we shall see. Reuland is definitely no longer a Fighting Irish, that part is true.

2007-09-24 16:52:29
386.   blue22
I had forgotten about the Cory Snyder era until today. I'm torn on him - I remember disliking him at first, but then he started to hit.
2007-09-24 16:52:32
387.   CanuckDodger
373 -- Why is Choi on your list? I thought you liked him, and I remember you were upset when Colletti released him.
2007-09-24 16:53:24
388.   blue22
386 - Nevermind, he never started to hit. Don't like him.
2007-09-24 16:54:20
389.   Jon Weisman
373 - Clearly, that "bad Dodgers" header was confusing.

382 - The impact of Fimple was way greater than Fonville. Fonville was like a sideshow in comparison.

2007-09-24 16:58:06
390.   Sam DC
Steve Schmoll!
2007-09-24 16:58:17
391.   RELX
My list is a mixture of obvious choices--Orel, Fernando, Gibson, etc.--players I liked for specific reasons--i.e Monday for his game winning homer in the 1981 playoff game, Ferguson for the reason I mentioned--players I liked for childhood reasons--Rhoden because he went 9-0 the first year I was a fan in 1977 (on the way to 12-3), Sax because he was the first Dodger that I followed from the minor leagues to the majors--and players I liked for reasons I still cannot fathom, like Alejandro Pena.
2007-09-24 17:00:20
392.   underdog
Steve Schmoll?

Brian Traxler? Well, how can you not like the guy, but wasn't he only around for a cup of coffee (and several donuts), just a few at bats?

2007-09-24 17:00:52
393.   Eric Enders
390 Yeah, I kind of miss doing those "It's a Schmoll World" posts that I started doing in '05.
2007-09-24 17:01:30
394.   bhsportsguy
390 So what will be your favorite memory of old RFK Stadium?
2007-09-24 17:02:46
395.   Eric Enders
392 I used to go to a lot of San Antonio games back then, so I probably saw Traxler play in person, oh, 30 times before he reached the majors.
2007-09-24 17:03:12
396.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Traxler had one hit for the Dodgers.

And it wasn't even a single!

2007-09-24 17:05:22
397.   RELX
383. I met Johnstone at a game when I was a kid. He was very cold and standoffish(which went against his reputation at the time as a crazy prankster), so I haven't liked him since then. I had a similar experience with Garvey, through he was more of a phony--he would only talk to women and really little kids.

Nicest man in baseball I ever met was Frank Howard. He used to coach third base for the Mets in the early 1980s, and my friend's father had season tickets right behind the third base coaching box. Between innings, Howard would come over and talk to fans in the stands. We also had this little thing going were we would yell, "Frank, oh Frank" like the Frank Perdue commercials at the time, and Howard would always turn around and wave and smile.

2007-09-24 17:06:17
398.   Eric Enders
396 One for eleven with a double. For some reason, those numbers are burned into my brain.
2007-09-24 17:10:44
399.   Dodgers49
363. 352 - Rowand will play any OF position (and will show Kemp and Loney how a veteran smacks face first into the outfield wall).

Kemp and Loney already know too much about the wall thing. Is there something else Rowland can teach them?

2007-09-24 17:10:55
400.   ryu
373 Radinsky had ERAs of below 3.00 all three years he was with the Dodgers. How can you label him bad?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-09-24 17:12:05
401.   ryu
Oh, you mean "bad" players you liked.
2007-09-24 17:13:35
402.   trainwreck
385
I saw a little bit of news about that. An interesting addition if it turns out to be true.
2007-09-24 17:14:34
403.   regfairfield
400 No, you had it right the first time. Radinski actually wasn't that bad, but I don't think anyone's actually said "man, I miss Scott Radinski".

I just messed that list up gloriously.

2007-09-24 17:19:55
404.   Jon Weisman
Postseason TV ad sales going well:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117972654.html?categoryid=18&cs=1&nid=2562

2007-09-24 17:23:55
405.   Bob Timmermann
I miss Mike Ramsey.
2007-09-24 17:26:18
406.   Bob Timmermann
I miss Scott Mullen.
2007-09-24 17:29:26
407.   Sam DC
394 Well, I've had some real good ones, mostly cause my son has grown into a baseball fan there.

Top five (although #2 is a cheat and if you asked me tomorrow you might get an entirely different order and/or list):

5. Tie between this game http://tinyurl.com/ywn99k (Zimm gw homer on Independence Day) and this game http://tinyurl.com/2o4arr (long rain delay we waited out with my cousins from CA, great pitching by Patterson, 2 incredible catches by Zimmerman, and 3 HRs by Soriano, including a gamewinner after the Cordero gave up 3 runs in the 8th to let the Braves tie the game -- Betemit in there too!)

4. My son's first near no-hitter -- Bergmann earlier this year going seven no hit innings against the Braves before McCann broke it up with a home run. Nationals won 2-1.

3. I remember a Sunday game in June where they called up a career minor leaguer named Rick Short. And there was a profile of him in the Post and it was just a great story. Then he comes into the game that afternoon and gets a huge ovation -- like everyone knows its his first major league at bat. And he gets a game changing RBI and the place goes nuts.

2. June 2005 -- Getting to know a new team that was expected to be in last place, but instead busted out on a homestand where they took something linke 12 out of 13 games and ended up in first place. They had 50 wins by the AS Break. (Then the bottom fell out in July.) Huge crowds every night and I went to around 6 games on the homestand.

1. Being there with my boy on Labor Day 2006. Ramon Ortiz pitches 8 no hit innings against the Cardinals. And my son was old enough to understand the amazingness of the idea "no hitter." Then, in the bottom of the 8th, he hits the first home run of his career. Lost the no hitter in the ninth to Aaron Miles, who then was killed on a double play. Than Pujols hit a home run. Ortiz out and Cordero saved the game.

2007-09-24 17:33:50
408.   Sam DC
397 At the last game at RFK, they had old Senators go out to the field with each starting player for the Nationals. They sent Frank Howard out with Ryan Zimmerman, and you wouldn't believe the ovation Howard got. It was so loud, and went on and on.

It was a very nice moment, and Zimmerman nicely backed away to let Howard enjoy it.

Apparently the line to get Howard's autograph after was enormous.

2007-09-24 17:43:40
409.   Bluebleeder87
383

nice read Enders, there's plenty of everyday people that have really nice things to say about Ramon Martinez, a couple of friends of mine had seen him in the Dodger elevator & say he's a really nice down to earth guy.

2007-09-24 17:54:30
410.   bhsportsguy
408 That's cool.

And again the Mets are wondering who are these guys and what happened to the team that lost 3 straight to the Phillies.

2007-09-24 17:57:22
411.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know if this was mentioned but Ken Gurnik has a new mailbag, it's pretty good.
2007-09-24 17:57:30
412.   Humma Kavula
If we're talking about favorite Dodgers, can I admit to my guilt about one current one?

The Other Ramon Martinez, a/k/a Lucille II.

I can't help it. I root for the 25th guy, the guy who makes it this year and is selling patio furniture or laboring in the minors next year.

I know there are a million guys like this -- guys on the cusp of being on the team or not. They are, for the most part, forgettable. But not for me -- I can't stop thinking about 'em.

Why do some of these guys make it, put together nice little 5- or 10-year careers as backups in the majors, and others labor away at AAA or Japan? It's why I rooted for Mitch Jones earlier this year. Sure, it was unlikely -- even impossible -- that he was ever the real deal. But never to receive so much as a cup of coffee? Are the differences between him and some other 5th outfielder all that great that he should never spend one day in the majors, even as a September call-up? That breaks my heart.

Lucille II is not my favorite player in the way one of the kids who actually, y'know, hits can be my favorite player, but it's pretty clear that his tenure with the Dodgers is just about up and he's probably gonna have a hard time finding a job next year. He's had a good run. Godspeed, Lucille.

2007-09-24 18:05:42
413.   bhsportsguy
For those in the Griddle Contest, as of 6:00 P.M PDT the teams with time running out are:

Seattle Elimination Number 1 - 9/25/07
Detroit 2 - 9/25/07
LAD 2 - 9/25/07
Atl 4 - 9/26/07
Milw 4 - 9/26/07
Colo 5 - 9/26/07
Phil 7 - 9/27/07

2007-09-24 18:07:28
414.   Sam DC
A good contest host would post an update allowing for the fact that some of his readers might not have sufficient recordkeeping systems to know who they selected, don't you think?
2007-09-24 18:09:28
415.   bhsportsguy
414 I didn't even enter but I had a few minute to compile the list.
2007-09-24 18:18:55
416.   bhsportsguy
Where to ship the bubbly?

Al
Boston is at home this week.
New York will be at Tampa Bay and Baltimore

NL
New York will be at home
Chicago will be at Florida and Cincinati
Arizona will be at Pittsburgh and Colorado
San Diego will be at Milwaukee (They can't clinch in San Francisco)

2007-09-24 18:22:26
417.   trainwreck
BH, this rumor about Hester de-committing and going to USC seems to be gaining momentum. Hopefully, we do in fact get Golden if this is the case.
2007-09-24 18:25:26
418.   bhsportsguy
417 We heard about guys decommiting all last year so I would not believe it until someone reports it. But Golden might be the prize pick anyway and considering what is happening at Arizona anyway and he was at the game on Satuday.
2007-09-24 18:29:57
419.   Dodgers49
413. For those in the Griddle Contest, as of 6:00 P.M PDT the teams with time running out are:

LAD 2 - 9/25/07
Atl 4 - 9/26/07
Milw 4 - 9/26/07

Milwaukee has the same number of losses and the Dodgers (76) so their Elimination Number should be the same as the Dodgers (2). In fact, if Milwaukee wins tonight they will have the same record as the Dodgers: 80 wins and 76 losses.

2007-09-24 18:32:33
420.   Bob Timmermann
419
But Milwaukee is closer to Chicago than San Diego.
2007-09-24 18:32:37
421.   bhsportsguy
419 Milwaukee is the only team on the list that has a larger elimination number for the division race instead of the wild card.

So the Cubs can win the division with a combination of 4 wins or 4 Brewer losses.

2007-09-24 18:32:59
422.   Paul Scott
Milwaukee's elimination number is based on winning the division. The Dodgers E# is based on the more difficult task of winning the wildcard. That is why they are different.
2007-09-24 18:35:41
423.   Dodgers49
Make that "the same number of losses as the Dodgers"
2007-09-24 18:38:06
424.   Dodgers49
420. 419 But Milwaukee is closer to Chicago than San Diego.

Okay. I gave up on them winning the division and just forgot about it. :-)

2007-09-24 18:39:54
425.   Bob Timmermann
And Milwaukee really isn't all that far from Chicago. ;-)
2007-09-24 18:44:11
426.   Bluebleeder87
Here's some more on Milton Bradley [ http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7260428?MSNHPHMA ] I was reminded of the 2005 WS reading that peace.
2007-09-24 18:45:53
427.   Gen3Blue
I've been watching ESPN and so far I have to admit I don't think they have spun the Bradley incident too far either way. I'm afraid Bradley's reputation may condemn him anyway, and this is too bad. My impression is that he is a very intelligent guy, and very talented. But he is obviously injury prone.
2007-09-24 18:46:17
428.   Andrew Shimmin
343 - What kind of bribe did Kevin Brown put together to get dropped from #1, to unlisted?

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/412726.html (comment #42)

2007-09-24 18:46:31
429.   Gen3Blue
426 piece?
2007-09-24 18:48:31
430.   ToyCannon
408
Thanks for the story Sam.
http://www.truebluela.com/story/2007/9/20/112821/031

Frank Howard was my 1st baseball hero and I'm glad it was him and not Frank Robinson.

2007-09-24 18:49:33
431.   Bob Timmermann
Detroit's elimination number is now 1 after losing to Minnesota.

Or you can look at it as New York's magic number as being 1.

2007-09-24 18:50:08
432.   Gen3Blue
Gee, I must be bad. I kind of liked the Okla St. coaches attack on the media.
2007-09-24 18:50:44
433.   bhsportsguy
Carlos Silva shut downs Detroit and now the Yankees can clinch a playoff spot tomorrow in Tampa Bay.

If they do, the American League playoff contestants will be known at least a day before any of the NL contestants are set.

2007-09-24 18:50:50
434.   Bob Timmermann
Barry Bonds: still not in the lineup for the Giants.
2007-09-24 18:52:12
435.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats are unstoppable!
2007-09-24 18:52:45
436.   D4P
434
Huh: maybe Barry's the one pouting, not Nate.
2007-09-24 18:55:40
437.   Marty
428 Actually I'm impressed with how many names showed up on both lists. But Kevin Brown was a gross error.
2007-09-24 18:56:14
438.   Dodgers49
Here is what could happen this week. The Dodgers should play the same lineup they used Sunday for the remainder to the season except for Jeff Kent at 2nd. They would win their last six games. Meanwhile; San Diego, Philadelphia and Colorado wouldn't win any more games. Atlanta sweeps Philadelphia then gets swept by Houston. And the world, including Kent and Lowe, is in shock as the Dodgers waltz off with the Wild Card.
2007-09-24 18:56:43
439.   Gen3Blue
Hey Sam! I think the Nats are going to beat the Mets. I'll watch and try not to jinx ya.
2007-09-24 18:57:31
440.   Gen3Blue
Yeahhhh!!!!!
2007-09-24 18:58:02
441.   Bob Timmermann
Guillermo Mota: not a popular man in New York.

These hits never would have happened if Paul Lo Duca were on the ... oh wait ... never mind.

2007-09-24 18:58:28
442.   D4P
Here is what could happen this week. Kemp, Loney, Martin, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton, LaRoche, Abreu, and anyone else under 30 defer to their elders and refuse to play for the rest of the season. The Dodgers lose all six games.
2007-09-24 18:58:34
443.   bhsportsguy
Oh no, the Nats are using up all their karma in one game.

At least the Mets hope they are.

2007-09-24 18:59:35
444.   Sam DC
Nats fans are wondering about trading Jon Rauch for that clubhouse cancer Matt Kemp.

Man is Mota getting booed loudly at Shea.

2007-09-24 19:00:10
445.   bhsportsguy
G. Mota is signed for one more year at $3.2 million.
2007-09-24 19:02:51
446.   D4P
Line Scores:

Nats 10-9-0
Mets 3-10-1

2007-09-24 19:06:10
447.   El Lay Dave
438 Chad Billingsley's arm will fall off. ;)
2007-09-24 19:07:27
448.   Marty
If the Dodgers deal Kemp because of this, there won't be a need for a 25 most hated Dodgers list. There will just be one on the list permanently. As permanent as his hair isn't
2007-09-24 19:08:08
449.   Gen3Blue
There have been better forums for this thought, but I will try to keep it brief.

The Giants gave a player a contract more that a decade ago, that I thought was a travesty. It seemed so inflationairy I thought at the least it would ruin baseball.
It was for Barry Bonds, and it turned out to be worth every dollar, making a joke of a Giant team dominate the division and the D's for ten years.

The Barry Zito contract will not be a repeat: but an Alex Gonzalez deal could possibly do this, and for this reason I am willing to consider getting into the fray.

Does anyone see any similiarities? I hope not.

2007-09-24 19:08:17
450.   Gen3Blue
There have been better forums for this thought, but I will try to keep it brief.

The Giants gave a player a contract more that a decade ago, that I thought was a travesty. It seemed so inflationairy I thought at the least it would ruin baseball.
It was for Barry Bonds, and it turned out to be worth every dollar, making a joke of a Giant team dominate the division and the D's for ten years.

The Barry Zito contract will not be a repeat: but an Alex Gonzalez deal could possibly do this, and for this reason I am willing to consider getting into the fray.

Does anyone see any similiarities? I hope not.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-09-24 19:08:58
451.   Sam DC
446 Nationals 8 walks, Mets 3.

It's as if it somehow helps your team to scores runs by getting on base via the walk.

2007-09-24 19:10:37
452.   D4P
449-450
Which Alex Gonzalez...?
2007-09-24 19:10:57
453.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets broadcast team has shown that nearly the entire crowd at Shea Stadium has left.

Although I was told in St. Louis by a Mets fan, that they never leave early.

Never.

2007-09-24 19:10:57
454.   trainwreck
450
I would love to see the Giants waste tons of money on Alex Gonzalez.
2007-09-24 19:11:07
455.   D4P
451
Yeah. It's almost as if hits and errors don't tell the whole story.
2007-09-24 19:11:43
456.   El Lay Dave
Diamond Leung posted in his blog a link to a Press-Enterprise article from last season regarding a Kent-Ethier incident I had forgotten about.

article: http://tinyurl.com/359b2w

As Diamond's commenter Carlos de Castro points out, the last (unrelated) paragraph is the best part.

2007-09-24 19:14:39
457.   Bluebleeder87
429

Oops, sorry. Yeah piece.

2007-09-24 19:15:13
458.   scareduck
267 - I am probably the only person that would have Sheffield on my favorite Dodger list.

I was just too young to know all the previous jerk-like things he had done.

I came back to the game in 1999, and it wasn't until the Dodgers changed GMs that I realized what a jerk Sheffield was. Complaining about your deal after it was negotiated? Rubbish.

2007-09-24 19:20:49
459.   Sam DC
After that home run, Jim Bowden is now willing to include Ryan "3 Run Homer In a Pennant Race" Langerhans in the Kemp deal.

Mr. Colletti?

2007-09-24 19:20:59
460.   trainwreck
456
I forgot about that too.

That is how professionals act.

2007-09-24 19:24:58
461.   D4P
It's one thing to say the kids are immature and whatever. But it's another to hold up Kent and Lowe as bastions of professional maturity and model behavior.
2007-09-24 19:25:58
462.   fordprefect
458
With you on that.
-Oh, and something about a firecracker, IIRC.
2007-09-24 19:26:20
463.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres in addition to missing Bradley, don't have Cameron tonight.

Hairston is playing left and Old Friend Brady Clark is starting in center.

2007-09-24 19:26:44
464.   Sam DC
Sometimes it really bugs me that Baseball Tonight is such an empty show. There is so much going on in baseball right now, and I flip over to BB Tonight to hear someone talking about how A-Rod has a track record of choking in October and then a a promo for Dusty "telling you the one thing contenders need to know going into the postseason."

Sigh.

2007-09-24 19:31:13
465.   Gen3Blue
Yeahhhh Nats. and Sam!!!!!!!

And as painful as this is to say---goooooeeee1111 San Fran!!

2007-09-24 19:32:10
466.   Andrew Shimmin
If there are enough parallel universes, maybe Loney and Kemp are responsible for the 2007 Dodgers' crap out in at least one of them. Though, maybe they're responsible for the team's winning a World Series in a few of them, too. Double edged sword.

http://tinyurl.com/yrrjyj

I haven't seen David Deutsch's name in ten years, but I remember his book, The Fabric of Reality, was lots of fun.

2007-09-24 19:32:22
467.   bhsportsguy
The Nats will not see the Mets do any celebrating on their watch.

Mets will have to wait at least until Thursday with Pedro on the mound when they host your reigning World Series Champs, the St. Louis Cardinals.

2007-09-24 19:33:48
468.   fordprefect
464
I'm resigned to the fact that most of these sports talk shows are like Oprah for men.
-All gossip and ads, no info.
2007-09-24 19:36:15
469.   Marty
466 Don Juan was right!
2007-09-24 19:38:57
470.   regfairfield
458 A contract that was, at the time, the largest contract ever.
2007-09-24 19:39:31
471.   Sam DC
Hamster update:

Point 1 -- Morro and Pismo are both still alive.

Point 2 -- The cage comes with a wheel. The instructions say "For silent operation, place one drop of vegetable oil on the wheel shaft." Done!

Point 3 -- The hamsters consider it fun to carry their food up into the wheel and then spin it around, so that the food either violently rattles or shoots out in little bits through gaps in the wheel frame. "Silent operation" my eye!

2007-09-24 19:40:37
472.   bhsportsguy
Giants doing their part to give the Padres some breathing room.
2007-09-24 19:40:58
473.   fordprefect
466
The UC Davis prof sure was modest in that soundbite.
2007-09-24 19:43:30
474.   fordprefect
471
Meant to ask you earlier, Sam, why you couldn't have named them Bugs and Daffy. ("I knew I shoulda turned left at Albuquerque!"):D
2007-09-24 19:48:42
475.   Sam DC
474 It was a complicated negotiation. My kid's friend has a cat named Gizmo and he wanted to use the name Gizmo. So I was mostly trying to move him off that and we ended up agreeing on Pismo.

After that, Morro just fell into place . . .

2007-09-24 19:50:15
476.   Nagman
Diamond Leung has updated his post of links to Jeff Kent stories with one that is especially amusing and... ironic?
2007-09-24 19:51:35
477.   Bob Timmermann
Padres 2, Giants 1 in the 2nd.
2007-09-24 19:51:39
478.   Linkmeister
Sam, wait until they escape the cage. The one I owned used to hide behind the refrigerator.

Oh, in other four-legged critter news, I was looking out the family room door a few minutes ago and a mongoose stopped right in front of it, looked at me, and scurried off.

2007-09-24 19:52:48
479.   Bob Timmermann
Zito singles (barely) and Vizquel scores to tie it up 2-2.
2007-09-24 19:53:13
480.   Nagman
I love triples alley at whatever that stadium is called now.
2007-09-24 19:53:32
481.   Bob Timmermann
478
If the hamsters get out, I can send my cat out to help with search and rescue.

Well, at least it would be a search.

2007-09-24 19:54:19
482.   MollyKnight
Um, has anyone posted this beauty from the NYT in 1992 about Kent's, um, lack of respect as a rookie?

http://tinyurl.com/2ngdl

Some highlights:

"Kent, the second baseman acquired in the trade for David Cone last month, effectively squared off with the rest of the Mets Sunday night, refusing to submit to a clubhouse prank and wear the ridiculous outfit the players had substituted for his street clothes in his locker."

It appeared today that it was going to be difficult for Kent to extricate himself from his isolated clubhouse position, and, in fact, the 24-year-old, who doesn't bother to disguise his temper or arrogance, appeared determined not to soften his stance.

Kent, barely 72 hours after pledging to reporters that he would be at his locker regardless of his personal fortunes in any game, evacuated the clubhouse in Cincinnati after his misplay of a ninth-inning grounder led to a defeat.

"Not tonight," Kent told reporters as he raced to the team bus.

Kent argued vehemently with Umpire Bruce Froemming in his first game with the Mets. And Sunday night after being called out on strikes by Jerry Crawford, Kent flung his helmet and bat near the umpire and complained all the way out to second base.

He was quoted in a Toronto Globe and Mail article last weekend as saying New York was worse than he had imagined, and was reported to have taken verbal swipes at Toronto third baseman Kelly Gruber, the man he had filled in for in 1992. While standing by his claim that he had lost some respect for Gruber, Kent today again insisted "80 percent of the quotes were misprinted."

"He was not well liked in his own clubhouse," a former official with the Blue Jays said of Kent's experience with Toronto's Class AA club. "He's totally oblivious to what it takes to fit in with a team. And he had problems with the umpires within the first month of the season last year."

Kent clearly has imperiled his position in the clubhouse. He was savagely ridiculed after Sunday night's episode by the club's veterans, who thought the rookie had deemed himself above standard hazing rituals and who resented the fact that the manager had been drawn into the scene.

2007-09-24 19:54:32
483.   bhsportsguy
479 According to sources, Jimmy Clausen wanted to redshirt this year due to his surgery.
2007-09-24 19:55:26
484.   Gen3Blue
Yeah! Yes! I think? It is so hard to watch the Fransiscan's game and try and think at the same time. About who to root for; 2-2 Frisco!
2007-09-24 19:57:58
485.   ToyCannon
471
Sam if you've got a hamster you need the bubble boy toy. You take the hamster out of his cage and place him in this toy and he is able to scoot all over the house using his own legs as propulsion. It is a kick to watch and it really gives them a chance to explore and exercise without any worry about them getting lost.
2007-09-24 19:58:04
486.   Gen3Blue
I think it is time to deprive this conflict of Oxygen, as several persons wiser than me have said. We can help by saying nothing about what was a nothing to begin with.
2007-09-24 20:02:04
487.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I'm forever connected with Jimmy Clausen.

Purdue is favored by 21 1/2 over Notre Dame.

2007-09-24 20:02:18
488.   El Lay Dave
476 That incident was discussed earlier, when the Kent quotes first came up, I think, but I did notice this part of the article:

[Kent] was quoted in a Toronto Globe and Mail article last weekend as saying New York was worse than he had imagined, and was reported to have taken verbal swipes at Toronto third baseman Kelly Gruber, the man he had filled in for in 1992. While standing by his claim that he had lost some respect for Gruber, Kent today again insisted "80 percent of the quotes were misprinted."

Gruber would have been a 30-year old veteran (having a crummy season) in 1992.

2007-09-24 20:03:10
489.   MollyKnight
359-That's exactly what I meant. I don't care if Matt Kemp isn't BFF with reporters; I just want don't want to see him fall prey to Simers.
2007-09-24 20:03:23
490.   bhsportsguy
487 I just thought of you based on our talks at the game.
2007-09-24 20:05:27
491.   Bob Timmermann
490
I really wondered where the Clausens really lived? The kids went to schools all over the San Fernando Valley and then eventually in Westlake Village.
2007-09-24 20:05:48
492.   El Lay Dave
482 Molly, did you see the link in 456 as well?
2007-09-24 20:06:15
493.   Gen3Blue
Now tht I've read it Molly, it was really good and very relevent. but we need to snuff any mention to quell this baloney.
2007-09-24 20:06:18
494.   Bob Timmermann
I think Bengie Molina could steal a base off of Tall Chris Young tonight.
2007-09-24 20:07:13
495.   bhsportsguy
Its stolen base time in San Francisco.
2007-09-24 20:07:18
496.   Bob Timmermann
Is that really a NPUT?
2007-09-24 20:08:18
497.   bhsportsguy
Not a good play, should have taken at least a few pitches to let Winn steal second.
2007-09-24 20:08:20
498.   Nagman
494 Oh c'mon, Bard would nail him by a half step.

Bard can't seem to throw anybody out but when TCY is pitching, he has no chance.

2007-09-24 20:09:59
499.   Bob Timmermann
The Padres acquired Jason Lane for the last week of the season:

http://tinyurl.com/2ffsao

2007-09-24 20:10:31
500.   El Lay Dave
491 I suspect they lived in a tour bus as itinerant student/athletes.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-09-24 20:10:51
501.   Izzy
This Kent is a jerk/Kemp is God stuff is about getting old. Something new up top would be nice. Sorry if that ruffles some feathers.
2007-09-24 20:11:18
502.   Sam DC
Egad -- any of these in particular Toycannon: http://tinyurl.com/3bva9u ?
2007-09-24 20:12:05
503.   MollyKnight
492- Yeah. I was watching that game, but I'd forgotten about it. Thanks.

Anybody else on the east coast watch Weeds tonight?

2007-09-24 20:12:41
504.   Marty
Um, who said Kemp is God?
2007-09-24 20:14:41
505.   El Lay Dave
499 Could the Dodgers have offered Luis Gonzalez - his veteran experience could really help the Padres. ;)
2007-09-24 20:14:53
506.   Bob Timmermann
504
I think it's in one of the books in the Bible that only a few religions use? I think it's the Gospel According to Logan.
2007-09-24 20:15:15
507.   fordprefect
474
We had a hamster (or was it a guinea pig?) when I was 9. It somehow discovered a link between the sound of the fridge door opening and lettuce appearing in its cage. The squealing was spectacular.
2007-09-24 20:16:39
508.   Gen3Blue
4-2 SF!
2007-09-24 20:16:45
509.   El Lay Dave
504 I think I saw that as spray-painted graffiti in the Islington station of London's Underground.
2007-09-24 20:17:33
510.   Gen3Blue
5-2 SF.
2007-09-24 20:18:22
511.   Gen3Blue
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.
2007-09-24 20:19:34
512.   Gen3Blue
7-2 SF. And I am really confused.
2007-09-24 20:20:36
513.   Sam DC
509 The words of the prophet were written on subway walls.
2007-09-24 20:22:15
514.   El Lay Dave
513 Unfortunately, the Dodgers' clubhouse is full of anything but the sounds of silence.
2007-09-24 20:30:10
515.   Sam DC
Or are the words of the profits written on the studio walls?
2007-09-24 20:30:59
516.   immouch
i'm late to this, but i need to say something. if hell has a play-by-play guy, it'll be ted lightner. he is unspeakably bad.
2007-09-24 20:39:32
517.   Bob Timmermann
515
And tenement halls.
2007-09-24 21:07:32
518.   Eric Enders
Attendance tomorrow at Dodger Stadium: 10,000, maybe more.

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