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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

By Mistake, An Open Chat Thread
2007-09-24 20:03
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Crazy Internet.

Comments (132)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-24 20:09:05
1.   bhsportsguy
To answer Bob, yes it is a NPUT.
2007-09-24 20:10:51
2.   bhsportsguy
Can Klesko steal a base?
2007-09-24 20:12:10
3.   Bob Timmermann
But it's not really new.
2007-09-24 20:12:58
4.   El Lay Dave
1 but is it supposed to be? Will this topic and these comments soon become scattered electrons amidst the vastnesses of cyberspace?
2007-09-24 20:14:16
5.   Nagman
2 Klesko had that bag but it was ball four.
2007-09-24 20:16:05
6.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know where to comment. I'm so confused. You're tearing me apart!
2007-09-24 20:16:40
7.   Sam DC
Is it really a post?
2007-09-24 20:17:08
8.   bhsportsguy
The Angels rest the Ranger Killer, Vlad Guerrero and they lose 8-7.
2007-09-24 20:18:03
9.   Bob Timmermann
TCY does not appear to have it tonight.
2007-09-24 20:18:17
10.   bhsportsguy
Tall Chris Young is not going to last 3 innings tonight.
2007-09-24 20:20:26
11.   El Lay Dave
This is a parallel universe, as described in the link in 466 of the "previous" topic.

6 Pure empathy for you.

2007-09-24 20:20:50
12.   Nagman
And I thought the Dodger season unraveled quickly, in that span from the Sunday loss to Az and the sweep in Colorado... the Padre season is unraveling even more quickly.
2007-09-24 20:22:46
13.   Bob Timmermann
But the Padres will have Jason Lane to keep Morgan Ensberg company with tales of playing in Houston. But Geoff Blum will taunt them with his World Series ring.
2007-09-24 20:23:36
14.   bhsportsguy
I was wrong, he will last exactly 3 innings tonight as he is due to bat 3rd in the top of the 4th.
2007-09-24 20:25:23
15.   bhsportsguy
Milwaukee's win still leaves them with the possibility of sleeping with the fishes on Wednesday but St. Louis is so bad it may extend a few more days.
2007-09-24 20:25:35
16.   Bob Timmermann
14
Bud Black would hate to burn up his 15 relievers too fast.

Actually, I don't know how many they have. Not as many as the Yankees do.

2007-09-24 20:26:28
17.   bhsportsguy
16 Brett Tomko may be the most important pickup this year for the Padres.

I am not kidding.

2007-09-24 20:26:54
18.   Bob Timmermann
15
St. Louis will now be without Molina the rest of the year after knee surgery. Mulder had more surgery on his shoulder.

Pujols actually played in the field tonight. La Russa wants him to get RBI #100 and then sit him down.

2007-09-24 20:38:15
19.   Bob Timmermann
Bud Black has some explaining to do after letting TCY hit with two runners on and no outs and his team down five runs.

I'm sure that sacrifice was a real help to get one run back.

2007-09-24 20:47:06
20.   trainwreck
If anything, micro-fracture should just affect Tracy's defense.
2007-09-24 20:56:29
21.   trainwreck
Terry Bowden seems to be campaigning a lot for the UCLA job.
2007-09-24 21:03:35
22.   Bob Timmermann
A Southerner coaching UCLA? Why that would never work! Unless he was named Red Sanders. Or Tommy Prothro.

Even Pepper Rogers would be an improvement.

2007-09-24 21:09:28
23.   Jon Weisman
Poor Eric. Even when my Toastering freaks out, he still gets LATed.

I am ready to change the term to Endersed.

2007-09-24 21:10:36
24.   Eric Enders
23 Oh, no, that one was intentional. No one was quoting Simon & Garfunkel lyrics in the new thread, so I thought I'd just leave it over there.
2007-09-24 21:16:18
25.   Eric Enders
I suppose by now that someone has pointed out that the Chris Youngs got their initials all wrong. If they switched middle initials, the Padres pitcher would be TCBY.
2007-09-24 21:16:59
26.   Bob Timmermann
So Cameron is now out for the season too for the Padres.

They are going to go with an outfield of Scott Hairston, Brady Clark, and Brian Giles down the stretch.

2007-09-24 21:17:35
27.   trainwreck
25
I kept thinking of TCBY too.
2007-09-24 21:19:37
28.   trainwreck
26
Something tells me that the Padres are going to have problems scoring runs.

Just get this funny feeling...

2007-09-24 21:19:44
29.   Eric Enders
How many players on the Dodgers' opening day roster (including DL) will be playing in the playoffs?

Brady Clark
Brett Tomko
Marlon Anderson
Wilson Betemit

Am I forgetting anyone?

2007-09-24 21:21:21
30.   Bob Timmermann
Tomko can't play in the playoffs, but the other three can.
2007-09-24 21:21:44
31.   trainwreck
Brett Tomko can't play though, right?
2007-09-24 21:25:05
32.   Bob Timmermann
Soon, the Ex-Dodger Factor will be the decisive factor in choosing playoff winners.

The Mets are doomed.

2007-09-24 21:28:14
33.   Eric Enders
So I have my computer playing MP3s randomly right now, and when "Eve of Destruction" started playing, all the lyrics were gone. It had turned into an instrumental. The same file had vocals previously. It's really bizarre, and I don't know what happened, but I'm blaming Bob for stealing the lyrics.
2007-09-24 21:41:13
34.   Gagne55
Big series coming up for third place. The season has been a disappointment, but finishing behind the Rockies just makes me shutter.

Also this looks like as good a thread as any to mention that I think the Cubs are the best team in the National League heading into the playoffs. The Mets are banged up. The Padres are down two outfielders and the stellar pitching staff is even starting to crack. The D'backs have been smoke and mirrors all year. The Cubs though have a solid rotation top to bottom even if lacking as ace as well as a line-up with the likes of Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano. Postseason series often end up being toss ups, but the Cubs have got to be the favorite for the penant.

2007-09-24 21:42:26
35.   Eric Enders
The best team in the National League going into the playoffs may be the Rockies, if they make it.
2007-09-24 21:42:41
36.   Bob Timmermann
33
Hey, you can go out for four days in space,
but when you return it's the same old place.
2007-09-24 21:46:34
37.   Eric Enders
Thief!
2007-09-24 21:47:48
38.   Slikk
I can't believe the sympathy on this site for Bradley. "Bradley was screwed"? You've got to be kidding me. The only guy in MLB who would react like this, and not only is he making a fool of himself, he's costing his team the playoffs.

Regardless of what the official did or didn't say, it's something you can take to the league after the game with your first-base coach.

There's NO legit excuse for running wild on the ref. Especially now! The only reason I can imagine why the press is hoarding the official angle so much right now is due to the recent scams in the NBA.

Bradley has provided many examples of what he is. I tire of reading about what a "great person" he seems to be. What is this, the third team he's ruined? Yikes.

2007-09-24 21:48:17
39.   El Lay Dave
I'll be attending the ol' ball game tomorrow night. Curious what the crowd response will be (and if the actual fanny in seat count is about 10,000 people, 23 ). I suspect, though, that the most prevalent vibe from the crowd will be apathy.
2007-09-24 21:48:35
40.   El Lay Dave
(er, I meant 24 )
2007-09-24 21:50:30
41.   Eric Enders
How did Bradley ruin the Dodgers? By helping them make the playoffs?
2007-09-24 21:51:53
42.   ToyCannon
Sam DC from the previous thread. Yes, those are what I was talking about. It is a nights entertainment watching them bounce around a house in them, especially if you have hardwood floors.
Not that I've ever had a hamster, but my friend does and if I was a captive hamster, I'd want one. It even protects them from cat and dogs, though they will knock it around.
2007-09-24 21:54:17
43.   El Lay Dave
42 Never had a hamster, but I felt like one whenever I took my daughter to those human-Habitrail type kiddie places.
2007-09-24 21:55:57
44.   Slikk
41 - if Bradley didn't leave a bad taste in your mouth, or if you think he left a positive vibe on the franchise ... I dunno what to tell yah. Oh, and yes, he certainly helped us get there - by a thread. And as I recall, he missed the first game of the series, did he not?

I'm just not a huge fan of out-of-control babies. I'd love to read something positive about him so at least I can think he's contributing something besides DL time to his team.

2007-09-24 21:58:13
45.   LogikReader
Don't go after Milton Bradley, guys. Go after that other guy. He's a MAN! He's 40!
2007-09-24 22:23:22
46.   Dodgers49
Padres lose. So, my scenario begins tomorrow. Dodgers and Braves win. Padres, Phillies and Rockies lose. It's all good. :-)
2007-09-24 22:33:11
47.   Gen3Blue
Semi-awake I am. And I think I want the Rockies to make the wild card. That said, I hope we sweep them on general principles.
And-----although I feel somewhat for Bradley, the monopoly man did hurt us a bit, and I guess I hope he has done in SD.
This is nearly subconscious stuff I think.
2007-09-24 22:37:39
48.   JoeyP
44-How did Bradley ruin the Padres?

He hit .314/.414/.580 for them or something. Without his contributions, they wouldnt be close to the playoffs.

His getting hurt shouldnt take away his contributions to the team. He was outstanding for them.

The Dodgers would be much better off with Werth/Ross/Bradley collectively in CF this year, than 1 year of Juan Pierre. Not to mention, that Pierre makes about 3 times what they make.

2007-09-24 22:42:49
49.   underdog
Don't know if this was cited in previous thread, but since we've all taken a fascination with the Dodgers' hazing ritual of their 1st and 2nd players (which takes on even more weight after Kentgate), thought this bit about Yankees game tonight (in AP story) was interesting:
>>Rescheduled from an April 25 rainout, there was hardly any energy in the ballpark. That is, until it was over.

Then, in their version of rookie hazing, the Yankees made their newcomers dress up in Wizard of Oz costumes for the bus ride to the airport and flight to Tampa Bay. There was plenty of hooting and hollering, and the rooks all posed for pictures.

Joba Chamberlain drew the Cowardly Lion, Edwar Ramirez was the Wicked Witch of the West and Ian Kennedy was Dorothy.

"I think I got the short end," Kennedy said, stepping into his sparkly, ruby red slippers. <<

2007-09-24 22:45:38
50.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the LA Times article from Baxter and Hernandez added much to the young/old rift.

Except give it oxygen:

http://tinyurl.com/2uq22x

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-24 22:47:16
51.   Bob Timmermann
This paragraph made no sense though:

Before a game on the last homestand, an attendant placed a trash can too close to Kemp's locker in the Dodgers' crowded clubhouse. But when the outfielder got up to move it, one veteran complained aloud -- but not to Kemp -- about how rookies today are different from those of the past.

I suppose rookies of the past just tripped over trash cans.

2007-09-24 22:51:23
52.   trainwreck
51
Makes them sound like old curmudgeons.
2007-09-24 22:56:54
53.   Eric Enders
Maybe veterans of the past took things up directly with the person they had a beef with, instead of whining to the press.
2007-09-24 22:58:25
54.   LAT
29. The thing that stands out from that list is what we got in return for those guys. . .
2007-09-24 23:00:39
55.   LAT
I have been away from the computer since 9:00 am. Has it come out what the umpire said to Milton to set him off?
2007-09-24 23:01:48
56.   Telemachos
My God, what a tempest in a teacup. Is this grade school or are these guys professionals.

For an old, curmudgeonly dude David Wells at least makes some sense. Whatever happened to keeping things in-house? What on earth is Grady doing through all this? Where is all the "communication skills" that these savvy vets supposedly have?

It's one thing to tell a young kid that the "right way" to play is to show up early, practice hard, and then be willing to talk to the media. It is hypocrisy of the highest order to not do these things yourself and then criticize others for not doing it.

I pray we see a team in '08 with Martin as the clubhouse leader for all the young'uns. I worry that we'll get a bunch of additional washed-up vets and end up with significantly fewer kids.

2007-09-24 23:02:37
57.   Eric Enders
55 According to Mark Kriegel of Fox Sports, Winters called Bradley "a ____ piece of ____."

Fill in the blanks however your imagination desires.

2007-09-24 23:03:11
58.   trainwreck
He called him a piece of excrement.
2007-09-24 23:04:22
59.   Vaudeville Villain
45

These latest stories are why I don't read the newspaper. BECAUSE IT'S GARBAGE!

2007-09-24 23:04:55
60.   Eric Enders
I figure since Derek Lowe thinks things have to be dealt with before spring training, here's how to deal with them: Name Russell Martin team captain. He seems to get along with both groups. And whether it becomes official or not, it's obvious he's the current and future leader of the team. The veterans don't like something, they can go complain to Martin.
2007-09-24 23:08:25
61.   trainwreck
59
And the editor that allowed them to print is GARBAGE!!!
2007-09-24 23:15:59
62.   Dodgers49
>> And, home and away, Kent is habitually the last to arrive, walking silently through the clubhouse to his corner locker without speaking to anyone. <<

And this is leadership?

2007-09-24 23:16:50
63.   trainwreck
I think we just tell everyone on the roster our plans for next year. If anyone has a problem with the plans then we can accommodate them and trade them.

Hopefully the plan does not involve trading any of the young guys.

2007-09-24 23:19:25
64.   Greg Brock
61 Terry Bowden? Really? Why in the world would he think he's a viable candidate. He hasn't coached in nearly a decade.

Kent and 34-year-old Nomar Garciaparra addressed the team after its sixth consecutive loss Friday, stressing the importance of finishing the season strong.

So, you trash the most productive hitters on the team, turning the last weeks into a trainwreck (no, not you) and then stand up and hold a team meeting about finishing strong? I'm so confused.

2007-09-24 23:21:49
65.   LAT
57 & 58. Thanks. Bradley was wrong but the umpire needs to be repremanded if not suspended. Umps should be above this sort of thing (but so should MB for that matter.) I'm sure this was all hashed out a few times over in the previous thread so I'll leave it at that.
2007-09-24 23:37:50
66.   trainwreck
64
He failed at broadcasting so I guess he figures it is time to go back to coaching.
2007-09-24 23:50:34
67.   Greg Brock
66 Terry Bowden sounds like a munchkin.

{Heavy Southern Drawl}
"I'M TERRY BOWDEN!"

2007-09-24 23:50:39
68.   Uncle Miltie
Milton is out for at least six months :(
2007-09-25 00:20:24
69.   El Lay Dave
62 ...Kent is habitually the last to arrive...

NOW I understand management's continued playing up of Pierre's work habits, including that he always shows up early.

2007-09-25 00:32:49
70.   Greg Brock
69 Leadership isn't about doing the right thing. It's about telling other people how to do the right thing.
2007-09-25 00:44:54
71.   trainwreck
67
He reminds me of Smilin' Joe Fission.
2007-09-25 00:53:41
72.   Andrew Shimmin
So, who do you think told Baxter the trash can story?
2007-09-25 02:00:20
73.   Benjamin Miracord
72 Alberto Bastardo?
2007-09-25 02:38:00
74.   Eric Enders
72 I'm assuming he witnessed it himself.
2007-09-25 04:41:56
75.   Gen3Blue
Starve it. Let it die. It amounts to nothing.
2007-09-25 05:46:28
76.   D4P
Manager Grady Little added: "All I can tell you is this: If we could've operated the entire season with the lineup we came out of spring training with, I would've loved nothing better. There would have been time to work in the kids and get them playing time here and there."
2007-09-25 05:59:54
77.   bcg60
In that article today in the Times it suggested that Ethier had said people were pointing fingers of blame. I remember reading that article in August and all he said regarding the losing skid was that now was not the time to start pointing fingers and that they needed to keep supporting each other. I didn't take it to mean that he was saying anyone was pointing fingers at each other, just that they needed to not let that happen.

Regarding Kemp and the trash can, who wouldn't want to move a trash can that was right next to them? Hardly makes him a jerk or disrespectful.

2007-09-25 06:18:29
78.   D4P
"In my day, we used trash cans for lockers! And we liked it!"
2007-09-25 06:27:10
79.   Andrew Shimmin
77- If he'd moved the can too close to somebody else, that'd be something. If he'd called the locker room attendant back over and made him move it, that'd be something. But moving it himself seems so innocuous, it doesn't make sense that Baxter bothered writing it up. Especially since that would have happened more than a week ago. I guess it establishes that this, um, whatever this is, predates the season-ending road trip, but that wasn't really in doubt, I don't think.

If Baxter saw l'affaire de la poubelle himself, and this was the best anecdote he had to explain what was going on, doesn't that pretty well mean he thinks the young players are getting dumped on for no reason? Or, at least, that he hasn't seen them do anything to deserve it? Maybe they're just sneaky.

2007-09-25 06:55:07
80.   goofus
79 I think the point he's trying to make is that today's rookies have the huevos to move the can; veterans think they should just accept things, they shouldn't think they have the right to say or do anything. School kid attitude.
2007-09-25 06:59:35
81.   JoeyP
*"All I can tell you is this: If we could've operated the entire season with the lineup we came out of spring training with, I would've loved nothing better."

Grady Little can make some dumb quotes, but wow.

Yeah, the team would have been a lot better had Loney/Kemp been in the minors all year.

Also, nice job of sucking up to the GM.

2007-09-25 07:05:57
82.   Andrew Shimmin
81- If Nomar had been good, the team would have been better off with Loney at AAA. If LuGo and Ethier had been terrific all year, the team would be better off with Kemp in AAA. He didn't say he wished Colletti had let Kemp and Loney rot in AAA, given the way the year unfolded. He wished that the team had been so good that it wouldn't have made sense tinkering with it.

It's not dumb, just wistful.

2007-09-25 07:08:05
83.   Hythloday
Terry Bowden wants the job because of the co-eds. There were pretty strong rumors that the reason he got the boot at Auburn was for besmirching the virtue of a young woman there.
2007-09-25 07:09:54
84.   StolenMonkey86
Also, nice job of sucking up to the GM.

Maybe he's not. He might be really bitter about the Betemit trade.

2007-09-25 07:18:38
85.   old dodger fan
82 If Nomar had been good the team would have been better off with Nomar at 3B and Loney at 1st. If LuGo and Etheir had been terrific all year the team would have been better off with LuGo in LF, Ethier in RF and Kemp in CF.

If all that had happened we would be shuffeling our pitching lineup to be ready for October 3rd. Sigh!

2007-09-25 07:29:38
86.   D4P
But "the lineup we came out of spring training with" presumably wasn't dictated by some external factor. It was determined by Management. In other words, Flanders and Grittle decided that Nomar would start over Loney. Flanders and Grittle decided that LuGo would start over Kemp/Ethier. Flanders and Grittle decided that Pierre would start over Kemp/Ethier. Flanders and Grittle decided that Tomdrickson would start over Billingsley.

Flanders and Grittle made a commitment to the Veterans from Day One, and Grittle appears to be indicating that he would have preferred starting the Veterans all year over starting the Kids.

2007-09-25 07:38:18
87.   Andrew Shimmin
86- I'm not arguing that the plan, coming into the season, was smart. Just that that quote wasn't dumb.
2007-09-25 07:42:55
88.   Andrew Shimmin
Listen, we have pretty great evidence that Grittle didn't (given the season as it was, not as he wished it might be) want to keep starting Nomar over Loney: he quit doing it. Same goes for the outfield trio (everybody who isn't Pierre). Grittle didn't want to give away the old guys' playing time; they played themselves out of it. He was saying it gently.
2007-09-25 07:44:33
89.   D4P
87
I'm not arguing that the quote was dumb, just that it appears to indicate a commitment to the Vets. I guess the question is this:

1. Is Grittle just indicating a preference that the initial lineup (regardless of how it's constructed vis a vis Vets and Kids) work out with no need for tinkering, or
2. Is Grittle indicating a preference that this particular initial (Veteran heavy) lineup workout because it was Veteran heavy?

Even if you think #1 is the correct interpretation, you still have to keep in mind that Grittle put the initial lineup together, and made it Veteran heavy in the first place.

2007-09-25 07:45:34
90.   Ricardo
Is TJ Simers a Giants fan?
2007-09-25 07:52:40
91.   FirstMohican
84 - Somehow I highly doubt Grady appreciated Betemit's value.
2007-09-25 07:54:49
92.   Vishal
84 He might be really bitter about the Betemit trade.

i think he would have been starting betemit if that were the case.

2007-09-25 07:57:11
93.   Daniel Zappala
I took Little's comment to mean that he would have loved to play the veterans more if they would have just performed like they were supposed to.

I thought this latest article from the Times was much more balanced (surprise! it didn't come from Plaschke or Simers) and fair to the kids. It gives me some hope, combined with how the Dodgers used the younger players so much this year, that the Dodgers will do the right thing next year.

2007-09-25 08:04:41
94.   Andrew Shimmin
89- I get it now. I think that's unknowable from what he said. Even if he is a PVL-lover, he's not a blind PVL-lover; he can be convinced to tick the old guys off, if the young guy is good. I'm not sure it would be better if he instinctively trusted prospects over the fogeys. The prospects so far have done extraordinarily well. Having a blind love of either (or any other) sort of player is bad. He does not seem to be so afflicted.
2007-09-25 08:04:51
95.   Bumsrap
The Mets have plenty of veterans on their team and are not finishing strong. It is not a given that good veterans are THE answer.

In the "old" days the veterans might joke around by getting the clubhouse attendant to put a trash can next to a rookie's locker and sniker while the rookie left it there because it was understood that they had to putup with such fun.

Freshman ans Sophomore hazing rituals should be done on the last spring training game and not during the the tail end of the season. Just a thought.

2007-09-25 08:05:36
96.   D4P
I took Little's comment to mean that he would have loved to play the veterans more if they would have just performed like they were supposed to

Does this mean:

1. Grittle generally prefers Veterans over Kids
2. There was something particular about this situation that inspired Grittle to prefer Veterans over Kids

2007-09-25 08:09:04
97.   Ricardo
"Little said he believes the Dodgers are real close to being ready to turn over their future to young players, the way the Arizona Diamondbacks have successfully done."

I hope it really happens.

2007-09-25 08:11:25
98.   Bumsrap
A player that has done well on a team for many years is going to be a fan favorite and those fans want to see him play when they come to the ballpark, even if he is fading. But a player that did his thing for another team and brings his diminished skills to a new team should be nothing more than a role player.
2007-09-25 08:34:11
99.   Daniel Zappala
96 Neither. I believe it was as subtle dig at the veterans:

If we could've operated the entire season with the lineup we came out of spring training with, I would've loved nothing better.

Translation: I had lots of veterans in the lineup, but they sucked. "I would have loved nothing better" doesn't mean he prefers veterans over the kids -- it's a tactful way of saying there wasn't anything he could do about the veterans playing so poorly that they quickly needed to be replaced.

"D4P, I would have loved nothing more than to hire you for this open position, but your publication record is lacking in a few key areas."

There would have been time to work in the kids and get them playing time here and there.

Translation: Our kids are good enough I would have found time to play them too. I could have given them more or less playing time, depending on how they responded. I would have had flexibility. Instead, I had no option but to play the kids full time, even if they stumbled a bit.

Bottom line: A manager can never have enough good players, so it would not have been a problem if everyone was playing fantastically.

2007-09-25 08:41:12
100.   Ken Noe
99 I agree. Little would have loved it if Nomar had hit well enough to keep the first base job. He would have loved it if LuGo hadn't tailed off after the break. He would have loved it if Schmidt and Wolf had stayed healthy. He would have loved it if Tomko could have won some games. And he would have loved it if Betemit had played as they wanted. But none of those things happened, so they went to Bills, Kemp, Loney et al earlier than they planned. That's all I read.

83 Good morning from Auburn, Alabama. True or not, I don't know, but that has been the rumor.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-25 08:41:17
101.   regfairfield
Seriously, moving a trashcan is a story? I guess I need to think more about those kinds of things at work.

I also heard that once Matt Kemp called Jeff Kent "Jeff". How immature can the kid be?

2007-09-25 08:43:15
102.   D4P
Translation: I had lots of veterans in the lineup, but they sucked

But why did he have lots of veterans in the lineup in the first place?

2007-09-25 08:45:31
103.   regfairfield
102 Ned signed them.
2007-09-25 08:47:34
104.   D4P
103
That explains why they were on the roster, not (necessarily) why they were in the lineup.
2007-09-25 08:47:51
105.   Daniel Zappala
102 Good question, though the only one outside of Pierre I would have argued strongly against in April was Nomar at first instead of third.
2007-09-25 08:50:26
106.   Andrew Shimmin
102- Because Colletti signed them. They keep saying they're on the same page, which could well be true, but it's still Colletti's job. Loney started the year in AAA; it would have been against the rules for Grittle to try to start him, then. Kemp started four of the first seven games; then he got hurt. Kuo started the year hurt. Billingsley started the year in relief, ostensibly to preserve his arm for later in the season.

If Nomar and Pierre hadn't been signed (and re-signed), Grittle would never have started either of them.

2007-09-25 08:50:54
107.   regfairfield
104 Because high value free agents get put into the starting lineup, regardless of how bad they may be.
2007-09-25 08:52:44
108.   D4P
Because high value free agents get put into the starting lineup, regardless of how bad they may be

Which speaks to my #2 in 96 .

2007-09-25 08:53:09
109.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers Opening Day lineup was:
Pierre CF
Martin C
Garciaparra 1B
Kent 2B
Gonzalez LF
Betemit 3B
Ethier RF
Martinez SS
Lowe P

Martinez was in the lineup replacing Furcal who was injured.

The Dodgers still had Martin, Betemit, and Ethier starting on opening day.

Kemp started the second game of the season.

Those were the cards that Little was dealt. Most people didn't think Kemp would make it out of spring training.

2007-09-25 08:54:44
110.   Bob Timmermann
108
Who is this mysterious manager who would have handled the situation differently?

I'd really like to know.

2007-09-25 08:55:09
111.   regfairfield
Show me a manager who leaves a guy signed for five million+ dollars on the bench early in the season, and I'll show you a guy who doesn't have a job.
2007-09-25 08:57:09
112.   LAT
I don't know why, but I cannot get past post 29 . It really annoys me that these guys will be going to the post season and the only thing the Dodgers got in return was a single middle reliever. Can anyone tell me that Marlon Anderson would not have been a useful member of this team. We got zero for him. I am so sick of Ned making the wrong decision. Has the guy been right about anything. Hey look, I know some deals go south and mistakes get made. If your deals are .500 successful you are doing great but apart from Ethier, Ned has not made one successful transaction.

If you want a preveiw of who Ned will acquire in the off season, look for the player who has a career .265 average but hit .300 this season or the former Cy Young canidate who has been out 2 years with an injury.

I don't know how anyone can bother with Grady complaints when there is Ned who is a disaster.

2007-09-25 08:59:56
113.   regfairfield
112 Whose spot on the 25 man would have Anderson taken? I'm pretty sure he was the noteable odd man out when he got DFAd
2007-09-25 09:00:08
114.   Bob Timmermann
Marlon Anderson had a bad elbow early in the season, so there wasn't much time to play. The problem was, that like Betemit, his successors all got hurt afterwards, such as Abreu and LaRoche.
2007-09-25 09:01:56
115.   Jon Weisman
Pretty sure that Little's quote doesn't merit this much analysis.

112 - Anderson was a case of bad timing - I recall they needed to get rid of him to make room for Loney. It was only after Betemit was lost that the Anderson gap seemed big. Sweeney has essentially replaced Anderson.

They could perhaps have gotten rid of Martinez instead of Anderson, though. I have to go back and check.

New post coming up in about five minutes. Just a couple of links.

2007-09-25 09:02:38
116.   LogikReader
LAT, before I get you'd, I should point out that NedCo did in fact make a couple of good transactions.

Never mind that he undid it, but he acquired Betemit for Baez. Just getting rid of him was a good move.

He apparently signed Furcal

He traded Izturis and some other guy for a good stretch run of Greg Maddux

That doesn't excuse him from all the other bad transactions, but he should at least get credit for the above.

2007-09-25 09:02:46
117.   Bob Timmermann
Also Marlon Anderson can't play the infield anymore. The Mets lost TWO second basemen in Valentin and Easley and they still didn't play Anderson at second. He just plays the outfield unless it's an emergency.
2007-09-25 09:03:14
118.   regfairfield
115 Since the Colittle regime didn't seem to think Betemit could play short, I don't think Martinez could have been DFAd.
2007-09-25 09:05:13
119.   regfairfield
116 Betemit for Baez and Aybar. Aybar still does have a career .387 on base, and I don't think Ned should get credit for Aybar's personal issues.

Plus it was just Izturis for Maddux and cash. That was easily the best move Ned made.

2007-09-25 09:08:08
120.   Andrew Shimmin
Izzy for Maddux was straight up, wasn't it?
2007-09-25 09:08:20
121.   LAT
116. Baez was a NedCo deal so if we are giving credit for fixing our mistakes I guess he gets credit.

You are correct about acquiring Maddux but the decision not to re-sign him was a mistake.

I can't remember but couldn't Brady Clark have been released and Marlon kept.

2007-09-25 09:11:54
122.   Andrew Shimmin
121- Clark was dumped before Anderson. Just a few days before, but before.
2007-09-25 09:13:06
123.   regfairfield
121 Clark was gone.

How good would Maddux be if he weren't in PETCO? Good enough that it would be worth giving a 41 year old a multi year deal?

2007-09-25 09:13:59
124.   Andrew Shimmin
123- Ha! This time I beat you.
2007-09-25 09:16:02
125.   LAT
123. Would he be better than Tomko, Hendy, Loaiza?
2007-09-25 09:16:12
126.   blue22
123 - I think we've discussed this before. If Ned would've offered arbitration, he'd have Maddux on a 1yr/$10M deal or 2 picks (if Maddux were Type A).

Instead we got Randy Wolf at $8M. I think the timing of the arbi deadline had something to do with it (ie had to act fast to get Wolf at a discount) but he should've offered arbitration to Maddux.

2007-09-25 09:16:52
127.   Andrew Shimmin
I was wrong about the few days, though. Anderson played his last game for the Dodgers on 6/24, but didn't get released till 7/12. Clark was gone 6/21.
2007-09-25 09:18:27
128.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2007-09-25 09:21:46
129.   regfairfield
125 Of course, but I don't know if the payroll could have supported Schmidt, Wolf and Maddux.

I think arbitration is debatable enough where it's not a boneheaded move. I think 10 million is his low end arbitration figure, he was coming off a year where he had a 3.30 ERA for us and made nine million, it could have easily been pushed up to the 12-13 million range. Combine this with the fact that he's 41, and I can see that being a risk that you can't afford to take.

2007-09-25 09:25:00
130.   Bumsrap
Championship teams need two very good starters,a couple of innings eaters, and a couple of very good relievers. The Dodgers had two of three for most of the season.

Colorado did a great job of pitching to Loney and it appeared that he was the guy they were going to most careful with in the four game series. More or less taking Loney out of the offense and Broxton's hurting arm was enough to sweep the Dodgers.

The Dodgers were in the playoff race until only ten days ago with a young team. Pierre wasn't the problem. Perhaps weakness at third base and Furcal playing hurt all year and no innings eaters were the culprets.

When teams win every decision looks much better and when they lose most decisions are second guessed.

2007-09-25 09:30:39
131.   Humma Kavula
I still can't figure out the trash can story. The idea that anybody -- whether it's the veterans or the Times writers or anybody -- thinks that moving a trash can is worthy of comment astounds me.
2007-09-25 10:08:15
132.   MollyKnight
^Maybe the writer was just reporting the absurdity of Kemp getting dissed for moving a trash can. That's what I got from it.

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