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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

But Did She Move a Trash Can?
2007-09-28 11:26
by Jon Weisman

U.S. soccer goalie Hope Solo is rational but brash. If you've been following the Dodgers over the past week, you know where that's getting her.

From Philip Hersh of the Chicago Tribune:

Solo, making her World Cup debut, started the first four games of the tournament, allowing two goals in the first 62 minutes and none in the next 298. But Ryan chose Cup veteran Scurry as goalie for the semifinal based on past performances against Brazil in big games, especially the 2004 Olympic final.

When Scurry delivered an effort of much less quality Thursday, it was too much for Solo.

"It was the wrong decision, and I think anybody that knows anything about the game knows that," Solo said. "There's no doubt in my mind I would have made those saves.

"And the fact of the matter is it's not 2004 anymore. ... It's 2007, and I think you have to live in the present.

"And you can't live by big names. You can't live in the past. It doesn't matter what somebody did in an Olympic gold medal game in the Olympics three years ago. Now is what matters, and that's what I think."

It's Jeff Kent's instigational outspokenness - in a young player! Look out below.

While U.S. women's soccer team coach Greg Ryan admitted that "in hindsight, you can say maybe the easier decision was to do it the other way," that doesn't mean there won't be punishment for the goalie's Sololoquy.

Speaking today at a Shanghai hotel, Ryan made it clear, by implication if not point-blank, that Solo's statements may have cost her not only a start in Sunday's third-place game against Norway but likely jeopardized her status as the U.S. goalie of the future.

Ryan, who became head coach in 2005, said reconciliation is possible if "both parties are sincere." He added, in a hardly veiled threat, "One of the great strengths of American teams is the talent pool of our goaltenders."

Coach made the wrong decision, frustration should have been handled in-house, tensions rise after embarrassing loss, yada yada yada, can't everyone just be smarter next time?

Update: via Bob Timmermann, Solo's apology ... and this Jemele Hill commentary that begins thusly:

U.S. women's soccer coach Greg Ryan has pulled off quite a hat trick. His boneheaded decision to bench young goalkeeper Hope Solo for veteran Briana Scurry torpedoed the United States' bid for a third World Cup, ruined Scurry's legacy and created an unnecessary controversy.

Way to go, coach. Even Grady Little is wondering what on earth you were thinking.

Comments (194)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-09-28 11:38:20
1.   Howard Fox that a real sport??
2007-09-28 11:41:03
2.   Greg Brock
Possible punishments for Hope Solo include a stiff fine or being encased in carbonite.


2007-09-28 11:41:26
3.   kinbote
sometimes pierre plays centerfield like a goalie.
2007-09-28 11:42:49
4.   underdog
Solo was completely correct in what she said but wrong to have said it, basically. Since everyone knew the coach made the wrong decision, including me, before the game, it's so obvious she shouldn't have said anything that direct. I think the coach would have admitted his mistake anyway and then they would've moved on with her. Of course, she's understandably frustrated (like Jeff Kent was) and was probably flabbergasted by the move.

Oh, thanks Cajun (re: end of last thread advice on Nawlins)!

2007-09-28 11:43:20
5.   underdog
2 And/or invitation to join Underdog's co-ed soccer team?


2007-09-28 11:44:41
6.   Bob Timmermann
Petr Cech for centerfield?
2007-09-28 11:45:07
7.   Greg Brock
By the way, "But Did She Move a Trashcan?" is awesome.
2007-09-28 11:45:44
8.   El Lay Dave
I wonder what Hope's father, Napoleon, has to say about this.
2007-09-28 11:46:29
9.   El Lay Dave
7 I second that.
2007-09-28 11:46:59
10.   njr
I went to last night's game and sat in the Dugout Club (a work perk...). It really is a different experience and I noticed a couple of things that were really interesting and stuck with me (in no particular order):

First off, per the last thread, Dusty Baker was there last night. Which could be the cause and or effect of the rumors.

I had a good conversation with the guy who works in the little gift shop right by the Dodger's dugout door. He said that Kemp, Loney and Ethier were the only guys who usually came out to sign autographs after the games. Kemp came out to see his family, and struck me as pretty arrogant. And then I thought, who cares? He's gonna hit 40 homeruns! A rather annoying lady standing next to me who said she went to 40 games a year in the dugout club said "Kemp has no heart". She seemd to have a sense of entitlement about the team and it's players (that they should all have a personal relationship with her because she sat in good seats) and she said she wanted Kemp to get traded because basically she didn't like him. She said she would rather see Jason Repko, and that she would rather see a player playing above his ability than a player like Kemp not playing to his ability. She then proceeded to call Olmedo "chunky" when he walked out. I left her general vacinity. It was a painful reminder of what a "fan" can be.

I also asked the guy that worked in the gift shop if he had read Plaschke's article on Kemp. He said he tried not to look at the press since he has to see the players everyday. He said that "everybody hates him. I don't even think he (Plashke) is allowed in the clubhouse anymore."

James Loney and Andre Ethier both seemed great. They both came out to sign balls and chatted with fans. Loney came out to sign balls and then went back inside to get his stuff. A nice gesture...

I approached Frank McCourt as he was leaving and shook hands with him. I knew I only had a chance to get in a quick comment so I said "I'm hope I get to watching Matt Kemp play for many years" and he responded "I hope so too." In retrospect, I should have gone with Logikreader's "sign Arod and I'll buy season tickets" but I couldn't think that fast on my feet. I also should have said "play FOR THE DODGERS" but I think it was assumed.

Matt Kemp's back right pocket was hanging out of his pants for his first two at bats. Does he do this often? Was it just an accident? When he got to third base, Rich Donnelly reached over and stuck it back in his pants. A meaningful gesture? Just helping a friend out?

Kent was nowhere in sight. Dugout or otherwise.

All in all it was an amazing experience. In a lot of ways I prefer the less insulated experience of sitting in other seats. I certainly feel like less of a crazy person when I shout "Bison!" from there. But it was a great treat and a chance to snoop...

2007-09-28 11:47:20
11.   Bob Timmermann
I still don't know what the deal about moving a trashcan meant.

Really, I don't get it.

2007-09-28 11:49:29
12.   sporky
11 - Does anyone?
2007-09-28 11:49:51
13.   Bob Timmermann
Hope Solo's father (Jeffrey Solo) died in June just as he was heading out to watch his daughter play on the National Team for the first time. Her parents divorced when she was 6.
2007-09-28 11:51:42
14.   Bob Timmermann
Plaschke has to be allowed in the clubhouse. He's a card-carrying member of the BBWAA and the Dodgers would be in serious trouble if they did not allow him access to the clubhouse.
2007-09-28 11:52:28
15.   Jon Weisman
11 - The trashcan is a Maguffin?

My guess is that the point was that Kemp's behavior is so awful that anything he does merits a putdown from the Stonecutters. But to say that the anecdote was vaguely explained is an understatement.

2007-09-28 11:52:31
16.   underdog
11/12 - Maybe it's a workplace metaphor, like "Who Moved My Cheese?"
2007-09-28 11:53:04
17.   ImprobableImpossible
It was the wrong decision, and I think anybody that knows anything about the game knows that. There's no doubt in my mind I would have (been able to move laterally/thrown the ball to second base on the fly/taken a first pitch).

And the fact of the matter is it's not (2001/2003/1999) anymore. ... It's 2007, and I think you have to live in the present.

And you can't live by big names. You can't live in the past. It doesn't matter what somebody did in a (World Series/World Series/Saturday Night Live episode) (six/four/seven) years ago. Now is what matters, and that's what I think.

2007-09-28 11:53:37
18.   njr
14 I thought the same thing. I took it less as a factual statement and more as an indication of what he thought the general attitude towards Plaschke in the clubhouse was.
2007-09-28 11:53:50
19.   underdog
15 Are those the same people who made Steve Gutenberg a star? 'nuf said.
2007-09-28 12:00:07
20.   Bob Timmermann
Please ignore the two emails I sent you Jon.

Although they are unintentionally funny.

2007-09-28 12:03:41
21.   MikeB
I am sure this has already been noted here but -
Ross Newhan had a column in Sunday's LAT regarding the recent success of the Angels with Stoneman and Sciosia in charge.
It was in the same spirit as today's defense of the Dodgers transitional integrational youth movement --
You've got to give the kids a break & let them play through their mistakes
Choose your veterans wisely
Stay the course
Focus on winning the big prize - it's more important then the marketing campaign
Leadership begins with those who are paid to lead - the GM, the manager, the coaches
2007-09-28 12:04:07
22.   Bob Timmermann
Hope Solo says she's sorry:
2007-09-28 12:05:32
23.   underdog
21 >>

We Heart Ross Newhan.

22 Darnit. And I'd already sent my invitation for her to join my team.

2007-09-28 12:07:53
24.   Reddog
I was at the game last night, and I thought it was great that they honored the old guy who has been selling peanuts since 1959 at the games. He's the guy who yells "Nuts, Nuts" real loud and has great aim when he throws the bags to the people who want peanuts.

I still remember him from back when my Dad used to take me to Rams games in the late '50s, early '60s at the Coliseum. My favorite Ram was Jon Arnett, who was probably the 2nd greatest open-field runner ever, next to Gale Sayers.

2007-09-28 12:08:32
25.   Marty
Man builds guillotine. Uses it on himself successfully:

2007-09-28 12:09:50
26.   Jon Weisman
20 - Too late :)
2007-09-28 12:09:54
27.   MC Safety
6- I picture Ned being more of a Fabian Barthez/Jens Lehmann guy.
2007-09-28 12:10:28
28.   Bob Timmermann
The man's name is Richard Aller. I never liked him and found him annoying.

And once at a game when I was wearing a UCLA sweatshirt, he tried to convince me that Walt Hazzard was one of the best basketball coaches UCLA had ever hired.

2007-09-28 12:10:57
29.   trainwreck
If Hope Solo joins underdog's futbol team then I am joining it too.
2007-09-28 12:11:16
30.   Jon Weisman
22 - Solo should learn that "teammate" has a double consonant. Like "Scurry."
2007-09-28 12:12:00
31.   Humma Kavula
Personally, I love the trash can thing. Vague, meaningless, funny -- it has everything. It is taking on a life of its own, and that is great.

I am seriously considering changing my username to Matt Kemp's Moved Trash Can.

2007-09-28 12:13:55
32.   Jon Weisman
30 - Not that that's the point, of course.

But as apologies go, would you consider hers entirely successful?

2007-09-28 12:14:48
33.   trainwreck
Good thing she cleared it up on Myspace.
2007-09-28 12:18:03
34.   trainwreck
Seen as how she ripped on her teammate to a camera crew, but her apology is just on some stupid Myspace, I am going to have to say no.
2007-09-28 12:19:02
35.   underdog
32 Seems like it, if the comments and "kudos" are any indication. Which they may not be. Not the most professional thing in the world, but she's learning. Interesting that she didn't back down from her criticism of the decision, just apologized for making it look as if she were ripping Scurry. Which is more believable than if she'd recanted altogether.
2007-09-28 12:19:29
36.   Humma Kavula
32 She apologized numerous times for putting forth the impression that she was putting down a teammate. That shows that though it was not her intention, she understands why and how her words could give that impression. She apologized, I think, for that poor choice of words. Points in favor.

Her last line is "I hope... you can find the understanding needed to forgive me." That isn't an apology. I put it in the same boat as people who say "I'm sorry that you were offended by what I said," which also isn't an apology. Points against.

In the end, it's neither the worst nor the best apology I've ever read.

2007-09-28 12:20:46
37.   underdog
34 I know what you mean, but more and more people in the media world (film, sports, music, etc) use MySpace as their announcement space, for notices to fans and so forth. It's not as unprofessional as it seems, though I still hate MySpace and she obviously doesn't have a real good press person at her side.
2007-09-28 12:21:33
38.   capdodger
22 The fun part about that page is the 44 of 47 comments saying, "You're right, and the media loves to create a story."
2007-09-28 12:22:28
39.   Sam DC
Brianna Scurry could do some good by making a short statement that it was a hard loss for the whole team, she understands what it's look to be a competitive person, and she looks forward to the whole team, including its coach and its goaltending corps, pulling together to defend their Olympic title next year.

(Is Women's soccer/footbal a medal event next year?)

2007-09-28 12:22:59
40.   Sam DC
"what it's like to be a competitive person"
2007-09-28 12:23:52
41.   Bob Timmermann
Soccer is still on the Olympic list although FIFA and the IOC don't like each other much.
2007-09-28 12:25:53
42.   Sam DC
Yeah, it's not a perfect apology, and she does suggest that things have been taken out of context, which I have a hard time seeing.

But I don't begrudge her sticking by her main criticism and I think her point that, how could be an athlete like this and not want to be on the field and think I'm best was well put.

But I'm biased in her favor because I think the coach is a real jerk for threatening to cut her from the team -- that really seems extreme at this point in time.

2007-09-28 12:27:10
43.   Sam DC
And I'll just pile on with kudos for your headline.
2007-09-28 12:28:34
44.   regfairfield
I'm curious to see what happens next year when Kemp's numbers more than likely level out to something a bit more reasonable. Will this be seen as a failure to keep focus in the offseason and more of a measure of his arrogance? No one that would point out such a thing would ever even think to consider that Kemp's BABIP over .400 is totally unsustainable. Will it be used as another reason to trade him?
2007-09-28 12:33:29
45.   D4P
I'm curious to see what happens next year when Kemp's numbers more than likely level out to something a bit more reasonable

While it's true that he's still young, I'm usually suspicious of guys with high BAs and low IsoDs. Plus, his IsoP really isn't that high.

2007-09-28 12:37:12
46.   capdodger
44 Colletti? Use BABIP? Surely you jest. I don't think he could even pronounce it.
2007-09-28 12:38:39
47.   KG16
I don't follow futból at all, but I don't have much of a problem with Solo's comments. Scurry hadn't played in an incredibly long time (from what I understand), Solo had been pretty dominate through the tournament (again, from what I understand), and the coach played a hunch. We've seen 159 games of a manager playing a hunch.

10 - I can understand the woman's frustration with Kemp "not playing up to his ability" and preferring guys that play beyond it. I've seen both kinds of athletes up close and personal, the guys playing above their level are generally better guys and more fun to root for. I'd say they win about an equal amount.

2007-09-28 12:39:13
48.   Humma Kavula
I'm curious to see what happens next year

He'll move a Dumpster.

Then, in 2009, a 30-yarder.

2007-09-28 12:40:06
49.   capdodger
Ah... You're saying that the GM's ignorance of BABIP would lead to him using the Arrogant Ballplayer defense to trade him.
2007-09-28 12:41:06
50.   Bob Timmermann
Tony La Russa pretty much sent J.D. Drew into exile because he didn't think Drew played up to his potential.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-09-28 12:42:50
51.   LeeLacy
24 That guy is great. Every time I attend a game (3-4 times a year), I make sure to buy whatever he's selling, whether I actually want it or not. He's quite the entertainer in the stands.
2007-09-28 12:42:52
52.   Ricardo
What´s your favorite soccer team, Bob?

Marta´s goal:

2007-09-28 12:42:57
53.   capdodger
47 Can a player really play "above" their level. Isn't the level at which players play, by definion, thier level?
2007-09-28 12:43:34
54.   Bill Crain
my Dad used to take me to Rams games in the late '50s, early '60s at the Coliseum. My favorite Ram was Jon Arnett, who was probably the 2nd greatest open-field runner ever, next to Gale Sayers.

Me, too. To this day, whenever I look at a roster, I first check to see who's wearing Arnett's #26.

It's Luis Gonzalez. For three more games.

2007-09-28 12:44:06
55.   KG16
44 - shouldn't the BABIP be higher for line drive hitters? Kemp, and most of the young guys for that matter, seems to be a line drive hitter, so if it holds that line drive tend to be hits more than fly balls and ground balls, then it would make sense for his BABIP to be higher, no?

45 - IsoP, I assume is Isolated Patience... I have to admit, I've got a problem with this metric. Patience is not just drawing walks, it's working the count to get a good pitch to hit. I think I made this point a while back, but doesn't a guy who works more counts to 2-0, 3-1, 3-1 show more patience than a guy who swings at the first pitch every single time? As for IsoD, what is that?

2007-09-28 12:45:15
56.   capdodger
52 Wow. She almost wasted that beautiful second touch with a lousy finish.
2007-09-28 12:47:16
57.   capdodger
55 - IsoP is Isolated Power. You've got a problem with IsoD.
2007-09-28 12:48:03
58.   regfairfield
44 His line drive percentage was only 15% last I checked. Even then, to naturally have a .400 BABIP, you need a 28% line drive percentage, which is something only Cory Sullivan can do.

53 No, a player can perform exactly the same way and see less of his balls in play fall in for hits, simply because it's entriely luck whether or not a ball just misses a fielder or it's caught. A "natural" .300 hitter could be hitting somewhere between .380 and .230 200 at bats into the season by things that are entirely out of his control.

2007-09-28 12:48:05
59.   KG16
53 - I suppose it's more of a subjective thing.

Let me put it this way... there are a lot of athletes with natural talent, guys who make it look really easy. Then there are guys with less talent but more drive, they tend to be the guys who put in extra time at the gym, more time in the batting cages, etc. The guys with less talent are the ones who people say are playing above their level - it is, I think, the fascination that so many have with Eckstein. Relatively speaking, he's not very talented for a major league ball player, but the guy leaves everything on the field - a lot of fans can relate to those guys.

2007-09-28 12:48:51
60.   alnyden
Great headine. The Kemp moving a trashcan story has been burning a hole in my brain ever since I read it. What a great reason to suggest trading young talent.
2007-09-28 12:49:43
61.   KG16
57 - thanks

58 - huh, seems like Kemp hits more line drives than that.

Ok, I have to go to San Diego now. Y'all have a good weekend.

2007-09-28 12:50:40
62.   Frip
Good on Ross Newhan, but his climactic "clincher" paragraph was a missed opportunity. Awkward and confusing, constructed like an autistic kid's Tinker Toy house.

"Although this is a difficult market in which to operate a development camp, the long wait for a nucleus of the current caliber to emerge from what had become a fallow farm system at times justified the 2007 route and demands caution if the club is now thinking it should break up that nucleus."

2007-09-28 12:53:51
63.   Terry A
62 - I think his original draft ended with, "They'd better be." But somebody had used that one in the paper already.
2007-09-28 12:55:22
64.   Bill Crain
cf. "2000 Years of Willie Mays" from Bill James. In the simulation (based on career numbers) Mays hit something like .360 one year and .253 the next.

It was a computer model, entirely random. If it had really happened, imagine the press.

2007-09-28 12:56:04
65.   capdodger
58 That's luck's effect on results, not on the player's performance. It's not something the player controls. The player performs exactly the same whether the balls are caught or not. If you're saying that a player can have results at, above, or below the level of performance, I agree. What most people mean when a player is playing "above" or "below" his level is 59 . I don't think that exists at all.
2007-09-28 13:00:54
66.   MikeB
Matt Kemp's Top 10 Comparables at start of 2007 season (courtesty of Baseball Prospectus)
4 Sammy Sosa
7 Orlando Cepeda
8 Larry Hisle
2007-09-28 13:05:26
67.   regfairfield
65 Very true, that's why it's probably more important to look at batted ball stats rather than actual performance, especially in a small sample size. But even then, the difference between a line drive and a ground out is amazingly small, and it can take some time for noise to fall out of the numbers.

Though I doubt any one who thinks Kemp is a problem would actually care about something like that.

2007-09-28 13:06:07
68.   neuroboy002
Quick question:

In a recent LA Times article, it was stated:

"... if [Kent] accepts his $9-million option and returns for 2008, probably will split playing time with 22-year-old Tony Abreu."

I thought 2008 was automatic once Kent reached a certain number of PAs. Once he has reached this minimum, there is no way out for either party; he will be a Dodger in 2008.
OR is it really an option - Kent can decide to opt out and play elsewhere (?) Or is the only other option with this contract retirement?

2007-09-28 13:07:01
69.   MC Safety
52- I cant speak for Bob but I am a Gunners supporter. I love youth movements too.
2007-09-28 13:08:11
70.   regfairfield
68 He can't opt out.
2007-09-28 13:12:08
71.   Johnny Nucleo
10 Njr, you have a golden ticket - a source "close to the Dodgers". If you were a sports journalist, you could pay him 10 bucks to say he thinks Kemp and Kershaw are going to be traded to the Twins for Santana, and voila, there's your article for the day.
2007-09-28 13:16:06
72.   trainwreck
I guess we now have to wait for Plaschke's article on why Hope Solo needs to be kicked off team USA.
2007-09-28 13:20:21
73.   underdog
72 Heh. Yep. Since they replaced her in the last game with a wily veteran.

But first someone has to explain soccer to him.

2007-09-28 13:20:48
74.   regfairfield
You know, in all the time that my buddy has worked for the Dodgers, I've never once thought to get quality quotes like that.

My source thinks that the Dodgers should stick with the youth movement.

2007-09-28 13:20:56
75.   Bill Crain
Njr himself is clearly a source close to the Dodgers and I've already written my article. I didn't even have to pay the $10!

I also hear the trash can has since been given an innocuous-looking coat of black enamel.

2007-09-28 13:21:08
76.   Ricardo
69. Arsenal is a good team and they have some brazilians players, I like them. Well I don´t have any favorite team in Europe.
Do you guys know São Paulo F.C.? Some years ago I played for their youth team but I broke the leg twice.
2007-09-28 13:27:12
77.   underdog
76 Wow, very cool Ricardo. (Well, except for the broken legs...) I have heard of Sao Paulo FC, sure.

Any Brazilians planning on playing in the MLS, or does that just cause laughter?

2007-09-28 13:29:02
78.   Hallux Valgus
77 Fred plays for DC United. I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others
2007-09-28 13:29:19
79.   trainwreck
I can't remember who, but one of the older Brazilians was considering coming to the MLS.
2007-09-28 13:31:53
80.   Hallux Valgus
also Denilson for FC Dallas
2007-09-28 13:33:19
81.   Hallux Valgus
and Ricardinho of FC Dallas
2007-09-28 13:35:32
82.   underdog
Ah right, forgot about Ricardinho and Denilson at Dallas. Fred is easier to forget, just because he's called Fred.
2007-09-28 13:37:06
83.   Hallux Valgus
and Marcelo Saragosa is on the Dallas injured list. So the answer to 77 is "yes," some.

79 I've read various reports of Ronaldo, Kaka, and Ronaldinho when they're ready for the pre retirement phase, but it seems like player movement speculation is soccer is worse than in any other sport.

2007-09-28 13:37:09
84.   Bob Timmermann
If Plaschke ever finds out that Hope Solo even spoke to Sasha Cohen once in her life, she's doomed.
2007-09-28 13:37:29
85.   Hallux Valgus
82 That's why I remember him!
2007-09-28 13:38:27
86.   Bob Timmermann
I don't really have a favorite team, but there are some relatives of mine in Germany who are big Dortmunder Union fans, but I can't even name one player on that squad.

I've always liked the name Sheffield Wednesday, even though they stink.

2007-09-28 13:38:55
87.   Ricardo
77. Last year after World Cup some people were saying that Ronaldo could play for Red Bull. World Cup years are the best, at least for a month everyone is happy.
2007-09-28 13:40:34
88.   trainwreck
The MLS is like the SF Giants of professional sports.
2007-09-28 13:40:56
89.   Hallux Valgus
87 unless you're an England supporter.
2007-09-28 13:43:15
90.   Bob Timmermann
I've always despised Richard Aller and found him the most annoying vendor in the stadium.

I never bought a single item from him.

2007-09-28 13:44:09
91.   trainwreck
My friend and I stayed up in Vegas to watch England lose in the last World Cup.

That was pretty terrible. Thankfully, I did not bet on the game like I had planned.

2007-09-28 13:48:10
92.   Hallux Valgus
There are 22 players from Argentina and Brazil in MLS this year, although the artcile I read didn't list them specifically
2007-09-28 13:54:06
93.   trainwreck
Don't forget Russelldinho for BC Dodgers.
2007-09-28 13:55:32
94.   Kevin Lewis
Interesting article on booing your own team:

2007-09-28 14:03:30
95.   Hallux Valgus
94 "J.D. has always rubbed his fans the wrong way, even the mellow Dodgers faithful, who practically spit their Pinot grigio at him last season"

mellow? Dude lives in LA, you'd think he'd have made it to at least one Giants game

2007-09-28 14:04:11
96.   CajunDodger
I don't think that I have been to enough games to have a favorite, but I do like the older guys more than the younger ones.
2007-09-28 14:05:33
97.   underdog
95 Pinot Grigio? What is he on?
2007-09-28 14:06:22
98.   Disabled List
Pinot grigio? Does he have Dodger fans confused with those Chardonnay-drinkers by the Bay? Bottled water would've been the more appropriate cultural stereotype for L.A. fans, I think.

But Bill Simmons is from Boston. All West Coasters are the same to him.

2007-09-28 14:12:02
99.   Humma Kavula
I like Pinot Grigio. But I've never had a glass at a ballgame.
2007-09-28 14:13:46
100.   Daniel Zappala
I know it made Jon nervous, but the previous thread was comedy gold. I had a good laugh when I came back from class. Thanks to all.

If there was a Pulitzer Prize for best headline to a blog post, Jon would win hands down.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-09-28 14:13:51
101.   Kevin Lewis

Me too. I am going to smoke some baby back ribs this weekend, and that is my choice of wine for the occasion

2007-09-28 14:14:48
102.   Kevin Lewis
I've seen more and more people that sneak in liquor in those fake binoculars...rum and coke at the game.
2007-09-28 14:16:05
103.   El Lay Dave
101 Don't you think the smoked ribs might be a bit much for the Pinot Grigio? Maybe a Gewurtztraminer if you're staying with white wine?
2007-09-28 14:17:33
104.   El Lay Dave
2008 Dodger schedule:

2007-09-28 14:20:19
105.   Kevin Lewis

It paired really well last time. I finish them off with a sweet and smokey BBQ sauce, so the two flavors are extremely subtle, not overpowering the taste of the meat. I put a nice glaze on, but the sauce is not dripping off the meat. Plus, my BBQ is amazing.

2007-09-28 14:26:26
106.   CajunDodger
What is MLB's 0bsession with us playing the AL Central?
2007-09-28 14:28:12
107.   CajunDodger
August is kind of weird in that we have a 10 game homestand followed immediately by a 10-game road trip. Is that normal?
2007-09-28 14:28:41
108.   El Lay Dave
105 If it works, it works!

A little citrus. Maybe some strawberry. Mmm. Passion fruit, mmm, and, oh, there's just like the faintest soupçon of like, uh, asparagus, and, there's a, just a flutter of, like a, like a nutty Edam cheese.

2007-09-28 14:30:05
109.   capdodger
Crud. Midweek in August at the new park in WAS. I hope the wind is from the north.
2007-09-28 14:31:51
110.   El Lay Dave
107 It's not unusual to go out (on the road) at any time.
2007-09-28 14:34:02
111.   Kevin Lewis

I read up on the Gewurtztraminer, but it sounds like it might be a little sweet for my taste. Is it really sweeter than a Riesling, or is that just one of many options?

2007-09-28 14:35:40
112.   Daniel Zappala
106 I'm just bummed the Dodgers don't get to play the Royals. If they're going to do inter-league play, then get rid of this thing where you play your "special rival" every year because it really mucks with the schedule and turns that special rival into an ordinary rival.
2007-09-28 14:36:12
113.   Daniel Zappala
Something I cannot relate to: Wine Thoughts. I feel for Xei.
2007-09-28 14:40:23
114.   Humma Kavula
At least we get Cleveland. That'll be a fun series.

I'm disappointed, though, that another year goes by without Yankees or Red Sox... selling those tickets goes a long way toward making back the season-ticket investment.

2007-09-28 14:43:30
115.   Johnson
104 So assuming that San Francisco and Pittsburgh will be bad next year, we'll finish up with 10 of our last 13 games against weak competition.

Of course, San Francisco could manage to land ARod, so who knows about them. Pittsburgh at least can be counted upon.

2007-09-28 14:53:04
116.   Daniel Zappala
What if Pittsburgh signs Alex Rodriguez? Wouldn't that be a hoot?
2007-09-28 14:58:07
117.   jasonungar07
Did you guys see this?

Vandalay Industries strikes again:

2007-09-28 15:02:35
118.   Kevin Lewis
I hope this isn't too crude...

When I got back from the game last night, I went to close one of the windows of my house and had a full view of my neighbors across the way, curtains open, lights on, and... why would they do that?

2007-09-28 15:08:25
119.   neuroboy002
116 Wow. Why doesn't A-rod just jump off a building and land on a bicycle with no seat. At least the pain would be short term relative to a contract with the Pitts.
2007-09-28 15:08:53
120.   underdog
118 Beats watching the game, eh?

Perhaps they're... eh, we can save the analysis for a Dear Abby or Dear Penthouse column, I guess.

2007-09-28 15:12:17
121.   Kevin Lewis

No it did not beat the game. Not attractive at all. Burned image in mind.

2007-09-28 15:14:56
122.   Mark Linsey
Since I know a lot of people here are interested in how the Rockies do this last weekend, these articles about them, while over a year old, paint a very interesting picture of their clubhouse.

2007-09-28 15:16:16
123.   CajunDodger
Fascinating freelance (and slightly butt-kissing) article on Scott Boras on Here is the part that I found especially interesting:

"Scott Boras has a reason for everything he does. When he negotiated Alex Rodriguez's 10-year, $252M contract with the Rangers in December 2000, Boras looked into the future and added a stipulation: an opt-out clause after the seventh season. Why seven years?

"First, Alex was going to be 32, his peak age," Boras says. "We wanted him to have the option of a new deal when he was at his prime. Second, I knew the CBA would be at least a year old by then." He's referring to the Collective Bargaining Agreement between MLB and the players union, which, as Boras predicted, went into effect this season. "If the CBA was in, teams would be confident that revenue streams were solid. It meant they would be able to afford our terms." A-Rod's 2004 trade to the Yankees ensured that Boras would have his client in the perfect place at the perfect time for the biggest possible payday.

Sometimes I wonder if it is even fair for Colletti to negotiate for A-Rod. Knife to a gunfight...

2007-09-28 15:22:03
124.   sporky
123 - I found the part about data collection fascinating. I can only imagine what his situation room looks like.
2007-09-28 15:22:42
125.   Ken Noe
DodgerDugout, via Inside the Dodgers message board, apparently reporting that Grady will be fired on Monday. I say "apparently" because I can't get the podcast to work. Any reason to pay attention? I keep thinking about Baker being at DS last night.
2007-09-28 15:23:10
126.   D4P
Sometimes I wonder if it is even fair for Colletti to negotiate for (insert name of player)
2007-09-28 15:23:39
127.   overkill94
102 I did that once. Unfortunately, those things hold so much alcohol that I was too drunk by the end of the game to remember to take the binoculars home with me.
2007-09-28 15:23:45
128.   sporky
125 - The threat of a Dusty Baker hiring is terrifying.
2007-09-28 15:25:02
129.   Kevin Lewis

Baker was there to commemorate the 30 hr season and throw a first pitch...I hope that is all.

2007-09-28 15:28:31
130.   overkill94
118 A couple weeks ago I went to my kitchen to wash some dishes, happened to look across the alley and saw a girl in the buff in her kitchen, oblivious to the fact that I had a direct view of her. Definitely a classy broad - she was pouring a glass of wine while smoking a cigarette. I've come to the conclusion that she had a gentleman caller over and didn't feel like putting on clothes just to go to the kitchen.
2007-09-28 15:29:48
131.   underdog
121 Sorry, I meant for them. Not for you, it seems.

okay, so I don't see how Baker is an improvement over Grady Little, but remind me again why he's a bad manager? I remember thinking he should've been a Dodger manager, not leading the Giants to the World Series, but that was years ago and I've soured on him but can't remember why.

2007-09-28 15:30:45
132.   fanerman
131 Doesn't Dusty Baker abuse his pitchers?
2007-09-28 15:31:06
133.   D4P
remind me again why he's a bad manager?

Google "dusty baker clog bases" for starters.

2007-09-28 15:31:06
134.   CajunDodger
128, 129

Assuming that the rumor is true, they will have to pay Grady (and presumably part of his staff) the last year of their contracts. Baker will then require $3-4 million/year for at least 3 years.

Is Grady really so bad that we need to waste $12 million? For the love of God, USE THE MONEY ON AROD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2007-09-28 15:32:01
135.   underdog
Should we take rumors on DodgerDugout seriously, for that matter?
2007-09-28 15:32:17
136.   Kevin Lewis
I don't really have any reason to not like Baker except for the buddy buddy Kent remarks and the fact that I don't think Little should take the fall for this.
2007-09-28 15:33:31
137.   underdog
133 Ah, yes. There it is: "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."


2007-09-28 15:33:44
138.   CajunDodger
OK, I have been embarrassed to ask until now, but how do you hyperlink to previous comments and put the bold settings on the font?


2007-09-28 15:34:08
139.   underdog
134/136 - Agreed.
2007-09-28 15:34:57
140.   Ken Noe
135 That's my real question. It's not a site I know well.
2007-09-28 15:35:15
141.   underdog
Cajun, put a brace around each side of the comment number. A "[" # "]".

Bold you can do by putting asterisks on each side of the word or phrase.

2007-09-28 15:36:56
142.   Ken Noe
136 He was my Mom's favorite Dodger of the 70s. She'd be happy. But geez, why dump Little and keep NedCo, who's really responsible for this mess? It's time for White or Ng.
2007-09-28 15:37:58
143.   CajunDodger
2007-09-28 15:39:02
144.   CajunDodger
Hey it works
2007-09-28 15:39:22
145.   Kevin Lewis

I just figured out what NPUT meant two days ago. It was a light bulb on in the brain moment.

Same with IIRC

2007-09-28 15:40:29
146.   Kevin Lewis

On that note, what would be a good red wine?

2007-09-28 15:43:22
147.   Humma Kavula
If I were the agent for Clayton Kershaw, Chad Billingsley, or James McDonald, I would be calling Ned Colletti every day promising to make his life hell if he hired Dusty Baker as manager.
2007-09-28 15:44:03
148.   Kingmans Performance
104 Thank you Dave!
2007-09-28 15:44:09
149.   Daniel Zappala
At least with IIRC you can google it and find out that it means Interactive Illinois Report Card, which I think is an advanced stats method for ranking players for the Chicago Cubs. They have that funky park that messes up all their stats.

If you google NPUT you get New Paltz United Teachers, which is clearly the wrong thing so that must be some funny Dodger Thoughts thing.

2007-09-28 15:47:00
150.   sporky
From their podcast:

"I listen to the big sports talkshow guys, and one of them has heard, has lots of credibility (I won't mention names), 'By Monday, he'll be gone.'

"...This particular sports announcer has lots of credibility and he has lots of experience."

Then they jabber on about whether or not they would wait after the WS to make such a move.

They then read Jon's piece for (without crediting him, I think), and list 5 examples of 'questionable' management.

I doubt this rumor. Their podcast seems to consist of reader e-mail and whatever else they find on the Internet.

I couldn't listen to any more of it. It's very difficult to bear through.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-09-28 15:48:06
151.   CajunDodger
Sometimes I feel like that DT is a proud little cult. It took me about 2 months of reading before I worked up the chutzpah to comment since most everyone seemed smarter on baseball matters that I am.

Much different than most blogs that I read. Evidence: the comments section of Inside the Dodgers. Good Lord...

2007-09-28 15:49:03
152.   scareduck
125 - I don't doubt this is within the realm of possibility, but I won't believe it until it shows up on something like a Ken Rosenthal or a Peter Gammons. DodgerDugout doesn't strike me as having the highest level of credibility. Also, the fact that they buried it in their damn podcast as a tease to get you to listen to the worthless thing really annoys me.
2007-09-28 15:49:23
153.   Marty
146 When I roast or BBQ pork, I like a nice syrah. But then, that may be my favorite variety of all anyway. I'm in a few clubs from vineyards in the Paso Robles area, so I can recommend Eberle, Adelaida, and San Marcos Creek reds.
2007-09-28 15:49:32
154.   Ken Noe
150 Thanks, that's sort of what I expected, but I really didn't know these guys. As my son said Wednesday, "I hate it, this entire off-season is going to be like the last week before the July 31 trading deadline."
2007-09-28 15:49:55
155.   scareduck
151 - ITD commenters are probably in the top 50% of the bell curve compared to what washes up on the sandy shores at Dodger Talk.
2007-09-28 15:50:09
156.   JT Dutch
... Wow. All this talk about Dusty Baker being the worst manager ever; about how if the Dodgers hire him, they'll be a "laughingstock".

Number one, the Dodgers are a laughingstock already. Number two, Dusty Baker has managed two teams: the Giants and the Cubs.

He brought the Giants in at 90 wins and a division title in 1997, despite the team allowing more runs than they scored. He took the Giants in 2002 to where they hadn't been in 40 years -- Game 7 of the World Series.

He later took the Cubs to where they hadn't been in 19 years -- the deciding game of the NLCS.

On top of that, Baker has the Dodgers in him; it's where he made his name, where he's still popular, and where he understands the dynamic of the fan base and the market. He's a link to a Dodger organization that was accustomed to success rather than failure, as the organization is known for now.

And bringing this man in to manage is a terrible decision? How so? I mean, most of you guys saw Grady Little manage the club into the ground this season; did you not? And you would rather have Little than Baker? Explain this to me.

2007-09-28 15:51:05
157.   Ken Noe
151 Close to six months here before I posted, and I still do so while genuflecting. I've learned a lot.
2007-09-28 15:52:28
158.   sporky
157 - A few weeks for me; thought it'd be odd since I got the impression I was on the younger side...
2007-09-28 15:54:51
159.   Scanman33
Email Frank McCourt if you're worried about Ned's potential "Appease the Veterans" approach:

He does read it or at least his secretary does. I emailed him a couple years ago and he gave me a phone call a few days later.

2007-09-28 15:55:25
160.   CajunDodger
I think those teams had some pretty good players also...

From my vantage point, why replace Little with Baker. Baker costs more, which will mean less money to spend, and they will need to buy out Little. Baker also has a bad habit of blowing up the arms of his pitchers from overuse.

Personally, I could also care less about the links to Dodger history. The devil I know beats the more expensive devil I also know.

2007-09-28 15:55:36
161.   BlueCrew Bruin
156 I can't really recall what Baker is like as a strategic, in-game decision maker. I think one of the biggest concerns is the fact that he really pushes pitchers to their limits, pitch-count wise. That is especially disconcerting with our crop of young starters waiting in the wings.

Other than that, I have to admit I kind of like the idea given the fact that he does have Dodger roots, which is always cool. {ducks}

2007-09-28 15:56:14
162.   jasonungar07

did u guys talk about this one yet?

2007-09-28 15:57:07
163.   Marty
But Baker has a bigger veteran fetish than Ned. He seems to be the worst fit for a team on a youth movement.
2007-09-28 15:58:43
164.   Marty
162 The only guy dumber than Dilbeck is Mike Waldner. IMO
2007-09-28 16:00:33
165.   Xeifrank
The guys in this DodgerDugout podcast said they'd love to have Kevin Kennedy as the new Dodger manager. Yikes! Anyone can do a podcast. Maybe I'll make my own. :)
vr, Xei
2007-09-28 16:00:55
166.   BlueCrew Bruin
At the risk of inciting a riot, does anyone recall the list of managerial candidates that ended up on Depo's short list? I remember there were some names that were very intriguing but I can't for the life of me remember the actual names. Not that Ned's list would resemble it in any way but, you know, just for old-times sake.
2007-09-28 16:01:53
167.   scareduck
162 - I hadn't seen it, but this quote sticks out:

With a very limited free-agent pool awaiting this offseason, Colletti's best move would appear to move one or two of those highly regarded prospects for someone with power still in his 20s.

"Yeah, if we can pull it off," Colletti said. "That would be the optimum."

The more I read these stories, the more I think the Dodgers really are looking to move the kids. If they do, Frank N' Ned will have made News Corp look like pikers when it comes to destroying the Dodgers. Kevin Malone didn't have a farm to destroy and kids to squander.

2007-09-28 16:03:19
168.   Hallux Valgus
167 That caught me, too. And the ending:
"A team can have too much young talent."

ugh, I feel that migraine coming back

2007-09-28 16:04:00
169.   Scanman33
Somehow, I'm guessing the local media weren't shouting about the poor drafts in the 90's when analyzing Depodesta's tenure here.
2007-09-28 16:04:45
170.   CajunDodger
I know that this is out of context, but even within the context of the article, I think that this is an astonishing comment:

"There are few ideal situations in baseball, and this is not one of them. A team can have too much young talent."

Ask Arizona and Colorado how it is working out for them.

2007-09-28 16:05:27
171.   JT Dutch

... Baker used Zambrano and Maddux more than he did Wood and Prior. Zambrano and Maddux seem to be OK, don't they? In 2003, Baker used his starters almost perfectly: the top four guys all pitched 201-214 innings each, all about 7 innings a start, and they all won 13 games or more. This is overuse?

As for how much he costs -- the Dodgers spent over $100 million for a .500 team this season. I don't think "costs" were a factor in bringing in Gonzo, Nomar, Schmidt, and Pierre.

2007-09-28 16:07:04
172.   BlueCrew Bruin
167 Aarrggh!
2007-09-28 16:08:07
173.   Kevin Lewis

Oh, a syrah would be really nice. I am a bigger fan of red wine, so this sounds great. Thanks for the recommendations.

2007-09-28 16:08:41
174.   regfairfield
I can think of no stupider man in baseball than Dusty Baker. This includes Steve Phillips who had no idea how the 40 man roster worked despite being a general manager. Juan Pierre, I can deal with, hiring Dusty to manage a young team would be an "I'm done" type of moment.
2007-09-28 16:09:30
175.   Jon Weisman
166 -

2007-09-28 16:09:53
176.   Jon Weisman
166 - And this:

2007-09-28 16:11:11
177.   Prescott Pete
Ned Colletti interview on radio 570am at 5:30 p.m.
2007-09-28 16:11:15
178.   JT Dutch

... Again, here's another thing that someone is going to have to explain to me. In Chicago, Baker didn't have many kids sitting around on his bench. The only one he did have was Choi, who platooned with Eric Karros; they had about the same OPS and they had about 33 doubles and 20 homers combined, so I don't see what the problem was there.

Which young players did Dusty Baker pass over? Which ones went on to greater success elsewhere?

2007-09-28 16:11:34
179.   regfairfield
Pitcher abuse points leaders 2003:

2. Kerry Wood
4. Mark Prior

2007-09-28 16:12:37
180.   Scanman33
171-Yeah, throw in Wood and Prior and 2 out of 4 ain't bad.

The fact that Baker went out of his way to find regular playing time for the likes of Neifi Perez, Ramon Martinez, John Mabry, Jeromy Burnitz, etc. should speak volumes.

2007-09-28 16:12:43
181.   CajunDodger
167 168

Here is that list of players in their 20s that I would open up the cupboards for (pitchers excluded):

Matt Holliday
Carl Crawford
Miggy Cabrera (provided he comes with a treadmill)
Albert Pujols
Grady Sizemore

NONE OF THESE GUYS ARE AVAILABLE. Why? All of them were developed and subsequently held on to by their respective teams.

This is precisely the argument for keeping the kids.

I wish our media was more observant...

2007-09-28 16:16:20
182.   CajunDodger
I think innings and wins are less important than pitch counts. It would be interesting to see what their pitch counts were.
2007-09-28 16:17:20
183.   regfairfield
Why would you want this guy managing your team:

"I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can't run, most of the time they're clogging up the bases for somebody who can run."
--Dusty Baker, Cubs manager (Chicago Daily Herald)

"Who's been the champions the last seven, eight years? ...Have you ever heard the Yankees talk about on-base percentage and walks? Walks help. But you ain't going to walk across the plate. You're going to hit across the plate. That's the school I come from."

"It's called hitting, and it ain't called walking. Do you ever see the top 10 walking? You see top 10 batting average. A lot of those top 10 do walk. But the name of the game is to hit."

2007-09-28 16:19:30
184.   Scanman33
181-Or in the case of Sizemore, traded for when Omar Minaya got a sniff of perhaps possibly maybe a slight chance at the playoffs.

Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee for Bart Colon has to be the 2nd worst trade in the last decade (next to the Pierzynski trade). If only the Tribe had stuck with Phillips...

2007-09-28 16:20:13
185.   BlueCrew Bruin
175 , 176 Cool, thanks. Lovullo & Wotus were the intriguing guys I was thinking of. I wonder if they're still in the positions they were in back then.
2007-09-28 16:20:36
186.   sporky
183 - I'm feeling queasy.
2007-09-28 16:22:29
187.   Kevin Lewis

I think he negated his point on the last one.

2007-09-28 16:23:25
188.   Jon Weisman
New post coming up top.
2007-09-28 16:23:52
189.   JT Dutch

... Like I said, Maddux and Zambrano were used MORE than Wood and Prior. Maybe the problem was with Wood and Prior more than it was with Baker. As for Wood and Prior's pitch counts, obviously I don't have the numbers, but I would bet that Zambrano threw as many pitches per inning as Wood and Prior did.

And, you list the veterans Baker played; now tell me which promising young players were passed over in favor of those veterans?

I looked over his Giants years; I saw Baker try to give J.R. Phillips a shot, and in three seasons, Phillips failed to hit his weight. He gave shots to Bobby Estallella, Marvin Benard, Armando Rios, Royce Clayton; and that's just with hitters.


... If the current Dodger management had viewed walks as an offensive weapon, they never would have signed Juan Pierre for big bucks to bat leadoff.

2007-09-28 16:25:50
190.   ssjames
189 I think that the point you are missing is that it is only luck or massively good genes that saved Zambrano's arm. Do you want Billingsley and Kershaw to end up just like Prior and Wood? I sure don't. This whole offseason is going to be a nightmare, I can feel it already.
2007-09-28 16:27:15
191.   CajunDodger
...and I think that is one of the reasons this team failed to do anything this year. When your 1-2 guys are not in the top 45 in OBP, then you have a problem. A problem that would be further exacerbated with a "hits" and "swing the bat" guy at the helm.
2007-09-28 16:28:38
192.   CajunDodger
Maddux is also one of the most durable pitchers in history who had proven this well before Baker came into the picture.
2007-09-28 16:32:05
193.   JT Dutch

... I fail to see where pitching Wood and Prior 210 innings in 2003 blew their arms apart. Maybe Wood and Prior just weren't durable pitchers. How is that Baker's fault? What would you have him do differently?

2007-09-28 16:33:34
194.   natepurcell

its not the amount of innings in a season, its the amount of pitches per start. Baker was notorious for letting his pitchers rack up pitches counts of 120+ in starts.

That is what everyone is worried about.

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