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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Fantastic Finish
2007-10-02 08:53
by Jon Weisman

As some of you might know, I grew up a Rams fan. My dad's family moved from Chicago to Los Angeles in 1950 and got Ram tickets almost immediately, keeping them until 1982. We spent one season trying to get from Woodland Hills to Anaheim before giving them up and devoting ourselves to the Dodgers – a decision I have never regretted.

I continued to follow the NFL closely through the 1990s, carving time out for it without a second thought, but eventually as my life got more complicated, it became one of the things I phased out. I haven't watched a regular-season NFL game from start to finish in a few years now.

I was thinking yesterday that if it had been the Dodgers who had moved away from me, I probably would have stopped being a baseball fan. It's not that I don't love the sport of baseball more than the sport of football, but my passion for the Dodgers is probably more important. If I still had an NFL team to root for, I'd still be with the sport. And frankly, my life would be a little easier. How much less of a logistical nightmare is it to devote Sundays, Monday nights and the occasional Thursday or Saturday to watching games than six or seven days a week.

At the last NFL game I went to, about 10 or 15 years ago in Anaheim, I was stunned by how bored I was. The stoppages in play made baseball seem fast-paced by comparison. For most of the game, there's a play, and then you wait a minute for the next play. Nevertheless, I know there are thrilling moments and thrilling games that I'm missing by cutting the NFL out of my life.

And then there's a game like Monday night's San Diego-Colorado thriller, and football becomes the last thing on my mind.

* * *

So, you know that home-plate camera on the Dodgers' Prime Ticket telecasts? The one that gives you a mostly dirt's-eye view of the plate that is mostly useless. Would that have come in handy at the end of the game?

I wasn't able to watch all of the game on TV, but I thought the TBS announcers were an improvement over the usual postseason gasbags. They were low-key until they weren't supposed to be, instead of treating every pitch like they were introducing pro wrestlers. And considering how many exciting plays there were, they really kept their cool.

But what a great way to finish the regular season, and what a wide-open postseason the National League has. Monday, Alex Belth asked me who I thought would win, and my reply was that the postseason picture had changed so much at the last minute, I hadn't even begun to think about it. Given that the Dodgers are out of it, I don't know when I've been more interested in the NL playoffs in recent years. (Bad Altitude and The Griddle have more on the game, the end of the regular season and the start of the playoffs.

I'll be rooting for the Cubs, because of how long my dad has been waiting for them to return to the World Series. (He attended the last Cubs' World Series appearance, as a 10-year-old in 1945.) But I definitely have a soft spot for Colorado, a state I love visiting with a team that has provided baseball a great story.

* * *

I updated the salary information in Monday's post a little bit, mostly with more payments to discarded players. Still not sure about everything. One major question is whether Rafael Furcal was getting paid (including bonuses) $9 million in 2007 and $17 million in 2008, or $13 million each year. I can't find any evidence that it's not the latter, but feel free to point me to it.

Furcal also is owed a deferred $4 million in 2009, after his contract expires.

Update: I cleared up my confusion about Furcal. His salary for 2008 is $13 million. He gets that bonus of $4 million at some undetermined point before the 2009 season - I'm going to put that down for 2009 itself.

* * *

Song I have fallen in love with: "Girls in Their Summer Clothes," from Bruce Springsteen's newest album. That and "Falling Slowly" from the Once soundtrack are my two favorite songs of the year.

* * *

Update: From Tony Jackson of the Daily News:

Tony Abreu will undergo surgery tomorrow to repair a sports hernia. He is expected to be fully healed in six to eight weeks and then resume his normal offseason conditioning, which should leave him fully ready to go by the start of spring training. ... The MRI on (Rafael) Furcal's left ankle showed nothing serious, he won't need surgery, and he is expected to be at full strength by the start of spring training after resting and rehabbing during the winter.

That answers a lingering Furcal question, and here's hoping that all the doubts about Abreu will be taken care of.

Comments (504)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-02 09:26:05
1.   Kevin Lewis

It is funny that you brought up the football thing because I said the same thing to a co-worker yesterday. My family was really only into Baseball and Soccer, so I was never much of a football fan, but I do wish we had a team in LA that I could watch once a week. It really seems like being a football fan would be a lot easier than being a baseball fan. You could get all hyped up for that one game, put on your jersey, and invite some friends over to watch the game. It just sounds pretty fun. Oh well.

2007-10-02 09:29:54
2.   Marty
I lived and died with the Rams in the 60s and 70s. I still rooted for the Rams up until they left Anaheim. Now, it's like who needs football? At least on the pro level. We still have college football which has always been more exciting than the pros.
2007-10-02 09:30:35
3.   LogikReader
I don't think we'll get to enjoy Don and Joe for long. I believe Chip Caray is the #1 guy for TBS broadcasts. Last night however, it was fun listening in, and I was like "Hey, that's the Red Sox guy!"

The TBS Broadcast was done very well last night; and I appreciated them taking a couple of commercial breaks out and using the time for "game breaks" with Cal Ripken Jr.

And finally, what a game!

2007-10-02 09:31:56
4.   LogikReader
Is there any evidence to refute Trevor Hoffman's overall failure in the most important moments? I don't want to be mean, but time after time...
2007-10-02 09:32:11
5.   Bob Timmermann
The #1 team for TBS will be Chip Caray, Tony Gwynn, and Bob Brenly.

I can only hope that Gwynn makes the other two be quiet.

2007-10-02 09:33:17
6.   LogikReader
"The usual postseason gasbags" = ESPN Broadcasters
2007-10-02 09:34:22
7.   Jon Weisman
James Loney was named NL Rookie of the .... Month!
2007-10-02 09:34:36
8.   Jon Weisman
6 - Don't forget Fox.
2007-10-02 09:36:43
9.   D4P
I had to wait for it...! That made it exciting.
2007-10-02 09:38:29
10.   underdog
7 Yay! Where do you think he'll finish in the year's award? 4th perhaps?

It's funny, just late last night, as I was watching part of a football game on NFL Network - one of those condensed games - which is the best way to watch a game, with all the boring downtime cut out, I started thinking that as much as I love pro football, and I do... it always makes me laugh when I hear some American denigrate soccer as boring. Attending an NFL game live was so freaking boring I couldn't stand it. Soccer at least is nonstop action. There may not be a lot of scoring but it's a game of movement, constant movement. Football is a lot of in between time which is okay on television but in person it's awfully torturous. Baseball in person can be slow too but it's like a symphony with moments of bombast, many of them in last night's game.

2007-10-02 09:39:09
11.   Improbable88
I know it's a bit ridiculous, but did anyone find themselves smiling over a similar sentiment:

"Matt Kemp would have gunned you down Matt Holliday, and you can bet Russ would have hung on to that ball."

Again, ridiculous I know, but I have to find something happy to focus on these Dodgerless days.

2007-10-02 09:40:03
12.   Improbable88
7 He didn't even make Buster Olney's runner-up list (of course).
2007-10-02 09:44:36
13.   LogikReader
You know, I contend Turner Sports as a whole is top notch. Ernie Johnson is to cable sports what Bob Costas is to NBC.

Love the Inside the NBA crew: Barkley, The Jet and Johnson, Ernie, that is.

The NBA Broadcast team is also good: Marv Albert is as good as it gets.

I liked their Pac 10/Big 12 coverage that they used to have.

Braves games were pretty well done, until they let Don Sutton go and added Chip.

2007-10-02 09:44:47
14.   Bob Timmermann
Congratulations to the Rockies for finishing with the highest fielding percentage in major league history.

They finished at .98925.
The Red Sox last year were .9891

2007-10-02 09:45:46
15.   jasonungar07

How did I miss this post in over 2 years? I have an anti Coletti scrapbook with Depo's pitcher on the front (joking). If I did this one goes into the "intro section"

I looked throught the DT archive and didn't see us talk about this article at the time, I may have missed it.

2007-10-02 09:47:14
16.   paranoidandroid
Having grown up in Chicago, I'll be pulling for the Cubs. I just don't think they have enough to get it done but you only have to go 11-8 to win it all.

My predictions for the postseason:
Cubs over AZ, PHI over COL
BOS over LAA, CLE over NYY

PHI over Cubs, BOS over CLE

BOS over PHI in WS

2007-10-02 09:47:25
17.   regfairfield
Jon, the exact wording of Furcal's contract:

signed 3-year deal worth 39M thru 2008 season on 12/7/05- + he receives a 5M signing bonus and salaries of 4M in 2006 and then 13M each year in 2007 and 2008- + he receives an additional payment of 4M before the 2009 season

I personally counted this as 9,13,17 but it could also be seen as 9,13,13,4. Furcal recievied nine million in 2006, not 2007.

2007-10-02 09:49:06
18.   LogikReader
I also think that Philly is the team to beat in the NL playoffs. That said, I think if not them, it could be the Rockies.

To see the Cubs within 5 outs of the World Series again would be so DELICIOUS!

2007-10-02 09:51:20
19.   fanerman
If the Cubs win, then that moves the Giants up one on the list of "teams with longest World Series win droughts."
2007-10-02 09:52:44
20.   blue22
8 - Yeah, when I think "Postseason gasbag" only one name comes to mind. Fire Tim McCarver.
2007-10-02 09:53:37
21.   Bob Timmermann
Rooting for Cleveland to win the World Series would have the same effect and that's more likely to happen.
2007-10-02 09:54:02
22.   blue22
11 - I kept applying the Dodgers to a lot of plays last night, but mostly it was "gee, I wonder how many outs on the basepaths the Dodgers would've run into on that play".
2007-10-02 09:54:07
23.   fanerman
15 I would have been more impressed with that article if Walter O'Malley was still alive, knew about Baseball Prospectus, and was in favor of fancy statistical analysis.
2007-10-02 09:54:46
24.   wireroom
I too, was a Rams fan. It really killed my dad when they moved to St. Louis. He cursed Georgia Frontiere as the woman who took his football team that he grew up with and movedit away. I hope the Rams lose every game they play.
The announcers on TBS were WONDERFUL compared to the dip sticks on fox and espn. I hope TBS gets more playoff games in the future and the networks start hiring more radio announcers from the teams themselves. Like when Vin used to call the playoffs for the radio and tv. The Dodger and Angel radio guys would be so much better to listen to.
2007-10-02 09:54:56
25.   Humma Kavula
16 My predix:

Boston over Los Angeles of Anaheim
Cleveland over New York

Cleveland over Boston

Philadelphia over Colorado (the fifth game lasts 12 innings!)
Arizona over Chicago

Philadelphia over Arizona

Cleveland over Philadelphia

2007-10-02 09:55:09
26.   fanerman
19 21 Well, maybe I'm rooting for a Cubs-Indians World Series, mister.
2007-10-02 09:57:14
27.   wireroom
A Cleveland-Chicago World Series is what I am hoping for. The ultimate grudge match.
2007-10-02 09:57:30
28.   paranoidandroid
I think the Rocks have peaked. No pun intended. They won a big playoff game and there will be a big let down when they are in Philly with that big crowd getting the Phils motivated.

Phils are more balanced. Could be some really fun games with all the big bats.

2007-10-02 09:57:33
29.   regfairfield
16 I think the Cubs are really the only decent team left. Arizona lost too much personell to be a threat, the Phillies have bad defense and lack any power arms in their staff except Hamels, and the Rockies only power arm is Jimenez (strike out pitchers tend to fair far better than control pitchers in the post season).

If the Cubs can keep ReDempster out of high leverage situations and give those innings to Marmol, they're easily the favorites.

2007-10-02 09:57:55
30.   Bumsrap
Instead of Kent's age vs. youth reason for the Dodgers not being in the playoffs, it is looking more and more like it was the Dodgers misfortune of having to play the Rockies 7 times at the end of the season that is the reason the Dodgers are not in the playoffs.

The Rockies are unstoppable and like the 88 Dodgers, the Rockies seem destined to become the World Champs.

2007-10-02 09:58:29
31.   Raf
4 Hoffman has gotten saves in the playoffs and he has gotten saves down the stretch when the Padres were in a pennant race. He has also blown games in the playoffs, and down the stretch as well.
2007-10-02 09:58:33
32.   regfairfield
That should all be in the NL. The four teams in the AL are all much better teams than any of the NL representatives.
2007-10-02 10:00:11
33.   paranoidandroid
Does anyone else think all playoff series should be seven games? That is what seems most fair to me. I'm glad the NBA got it right a few years ago, it's time in my opinion for MLB to follow suit.

I mean, you play 162 or 163 games to get to the playoffs, what is two more to win a series? It takes a deeper team to win four of seven than three of five.

2007-10-02 10:00:22
34.   Daniel Zappala
I'll be rooting for the Rockies and Angels, with an Angels win in the series. But if I had to predict, I'd bet:

Boston over LAA
NY over Cleveland
NY over Boston

Chicago over Arizona
Colorado over Philadelphia
Colorado over Chicago

NY over Colorado

2007-10-02 10:00:54
35.   Bob Timmermann
I was wondering for a minute there that you thought that the Cubs were superior to the Red Sox.
2007-10-02 10:01:09
36.   fanerman
Hey paranoidandroid,

Are you getting the 40-pound discbox version or the "free" download/donation version of In Rainbows?

2007-10-02 10:01:56
37.   Mark T.R. Donohue
14 Interesting! I was wondering after Carroll made the error in the eleventh if the Rockies were still alive for the record and if not how many more innings of extra baseball they would need to play to get them back under it.

There were two pretty big homer judgement calls by the official scorer: Tulowitzki bobbled a grounder that he made a nice play to get to, but he still bobbled it, and the Holliday misplay was clearly a two-base error and not a double. In fact of the three plays I thought Carroll's (he knocked down a Scott Hairston screamer, retrived it, and drew Todd Helton slightly off the bag with a quick throw) was the least deserving of an error.

2007-10-02 10:02:01
38.   Bob Timmermann
A best-of-seven DS is fine with me, but I don't like to spend my Veterans Day watching the World Series.
2007-10-02 10:02:28
39.   D4P
My choices for WS Champ (in descending order of preference)

1. Colorado
2. Philadelphia
3. Arizona
4. Cleveland
5. Chicago
6. Los Angeles of Anaheim
7. Yankees
8. Red Sox

2007-10-02 10:02:29
40.   Reddog
I mailed off my letter to Colletti yesterday, making the key points of keeping Kemp, not signing any more over-the-hill vets, and to convince McCourt of the value in getting A-Rod, not just to add a big slugger, but that it could lead to 4 million in attendance.

It might really help if everyone here could send similar letters to him - it only takes a few minutes, and could really have a big influence on what the team does this off-season. The address by the way is:
LA Dodgers, 1000 Elysian Park Av, LA 90012.


2007-10-02 10:02:58
41.   underdog
32 True, and that was true last year, too. And look what happened. All of which just means I'm glad I'm not a gambling man.
2007-10-02 10:04:03
42.   Humma Kavula
33 Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. I'm also not a huge fan of the one-game, winner-take-all tiebreaker. I think tiebreakers should be three games.

Luck already plays a huge role in the post-season, and while that's fine -- there's not really any way around it -- doing what we can to tone down the luck is a good thing.

2007-10-02 10:06:18
43.   Brent is a Dodger Fan

Jon... My Dad was also a 10 year old in 1945, going to the World Series in Chicago to root for the Cubs.

...and he now lives in Woodland Hills.

(Though he and my Mom didn't move to LA until 1962, I think).


2007-10-02 10:06:26
44.   Bob Timmermann
A 3-game tiebreaker again brings up the specter of a Veterans Day World Series game.

In a place like Chicago or Cleveland.

2007-10-02 10:07:59
45.   Bob Timmermann
In 1945, my parents were living in the St. Louis area and likely wondering how their Cardinals who had won 2 of the past 3 World Series couldn't win in 1945. They just waited another year.
2007-10-02 10:12:22
46.   caseybarker

The regular-season schedule needs to be shortened. And while I'm at it, get rid of the unbalanced schedule.

2007-10-02 10:16:12
47.   D4P
The regular-season schedule needs to be shortened

Some people fret that shortening the schedule would make existing records obsolete. But many of these same fretters fret that steroids have tarnished existing records. If we are truly in a roid-free era now, why not shorten the schedule and start with a whole set of new roid-free records?

2007-10-02 10:16:25
48.   ToyCannon
If Ned took advice from fans no matter how well meaning I'd be very disappointed.

The McCourts on the other hand, should always consider the fans opinions.

2007-10-02 10:24:16
49.   Reddog
Thanks, that is an extremely prescient post.

Too bad for us the first 5 turned McCourt down. They couldn't have been worse than what we ended up with.

I do think Colletti and Little will both be gone after next season if we don't make the playoffs in '08.

2007-10-02 10:25:41
50.   Daniel Zappala
In 1945 my parents were in the Bronx and Mount Vernon, NY. They were likely wondering how on earth there could be two World Series in a row without the Yankees in them.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-02 10:26:14
51.   Bluebleeder87
16 PHI over COL

the Rockies have been playing insanely great baseball for a few weeks now though, in the back of my mind I'm thinking there gonna bust an Angels 2002. In my honest opinion I think it's a toss up between those 2, I feel they both have great hitting (in hitter friendly ballparks) & marginal pitching, it's gonna be a fun series that's for sure.

Ps the Phillies have a better up the middle defense then the Rox in my opinion only because Cameron is still hurt but we'll see how that plays out. Tulowzki has an aboslutley SICK glove at SS, really fun to watch.

2007-10-02 10:26:26
52.   Reddog
Okay , then send your letters to McCourt - it sure couldn't hurt....
2007-10-02 10:26:57
53.   Andrew Shimmin
Joe Sheehan v. The Umpires.

2007-10-02 10:29:39
54.   hernari
So this weekend I'm talking with my Mom and I find out that my grandfather (who passed away in 1979) went to John Muir High school in Pasadena. So I look at their web page and guess who went to JM High the same time as my grandfather and also happened to play baseball? None other than the great Jackie Robinson!
My grandfather and Jackie Robinson were born in the same year but 10 months apart. Not sure if they would have been on the same team but I'm going to try and find out. I emailed the high school and hope to get a look at their old yearbooks. Wow. Hopefully I'll get proof so I'll be able to proclaim to my kids, "Your great grand-pappy played high school ball with Jackie Robinson!"
2007-10-02 10:30:27
55.   Bob Timmermann
In defense of the umpires, both the Atkins "home run" and Holliday "scoring" were both extremely difficult calls to make.

Especially the Atkins hit.

2007-10-02 10:32:16
56.   KG16
If I were the Commissioner:

1. Interleague play would be done (they are, after all, two different leagues)

2. the unbalanced schedule would be done (it made sense if only you had to win your division to make the playoffs, now, with the wild card, it makes little sense)

3. the league offices would be restored

4. astroturf would be illegal

5. division series would be seven games, extra time made up with all teams playing double headers on Independence Day, Memorial Day, and maybe Labor Day.

2007-10-02 10:32:54
57.   Bob Timmermann
Try the high school's alumni association instead of the school:
2007-10-02 10:35:37
58.   LogikReader
I don't think anybody uses astroturf anymore. It's all "field turf" now, which is an improvement.
2007-10-02 10:36:11
59.   Bluebleeder87

err, nevermind the Cameron playing for the Rockies thing...

the Rockies have the better up the middle defense, sorry, when it ain't the Dodgers I get players confused, oops.

2007-10-02 10:37:26
60.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies generally have better defense everywhere on the field than most teams.
2007-10-02 10:38:27
61.   Bluebleeder87

I'd nuke the DH...

2007-10-02 10:38:34
62.   Bob Timmermann
All of your points have some merit except the part about the two league offices.

From a business standpoint, the game doesn't need an extra level of arbitrary bureaucracy.

2007-10-02 10:38:57
63.   KG16
58 - good point. field turf would be illegal too - unless it was a funky color, like at Boise State...
2007-10-02 10:39:04
64.   BlueCrew Bruin
I'm calling dibs right now on the name "Postseason Gasbags" for when I finally get around to starting my garage band.
2007-10-02 10:41:06
65.   KG16
61 - I thought about that, but I think the only way you could get away with it is if you expanded ML rosters to 28 players - the union sees the DH as a great place for marginal ball player to become superstars.

62 - the commissioner's office would be reduced to an executive suite... probably in California because New York's not my home. So it wouldn't really be an extra level, it would be like it use to be.

2007-10-02 10:41:07
66.   KG16
61 - I thought about that, but I think the only way you could get away with it is if you expanded ML rosters to 28 players - the union sees the DH as a great place for marginal ball player to become superstars.

62 - the commissioner's office would be reduced to an executive suite... probably in California because New York's not my home. So it wouldn't really be an extra level, it would be like it use to be.

2007-10-02 10:41:08
67.   KG16
61 - I thought about that, but I think the only way you could get away with it is if you expanded ML rosters to 28 players - the union sees the DH as a great place for marginal ball player to become superstars.

62 - the commissioner's office would be reduced to an executive suite... probably in California because New York's not my home. So it wouldn't really be an extra level, it would be like it use to be.

2007-10-02 10:41:35
68.   KG16
sorry about the triple post
2007-10-02 10:41:38
69.   paranoidandroid
36 Already ordered the "Discbox", came to $81 and some change with the conversion. My credit card company called too, fraud alert. WASTE is the fanclub and they thought it was a strange charge.
2007-10-02 10:42:31
70.   fanerman
69 Cool. Yeah, $81 is quite a lot, but I'm gonna end up ordering it anyway, so I might as well get over the price now.
2007-10-02 10:44:34
71.   Daniel Zappala
I would vote for Bob for commissioner over anyone else. No offense, KG16, though I do like most of your suggestions.
2007-10-02 10:45:14
72.   KG16
71 - you kidding? If it was between me and Bob, I'd vote for Bob.
2007-10-02 10:45:16
73.   hernari
That's actually who I contacted. Apparently they have a museum and they forwarded my email to the museum's curator. So hopefully I'll be able to schedule a visit.
2007-10-02 10:48:05
74.   Kevin Lewis
From the last thread...TBS has an HD channel now? Thank goodness
2007-10-02 10:51:50
75.   Kevin Lewis
scratch looks like only through Comcast and Time Warner...just like KCAL grrrrrrrrrrrr
2007-10-02 10:52:14
76.   wireroom
so does anyone think that Dodgers have a realistic shot at signing A-Rod? I know that the Dodgers can pony up with the money, but it seems like the Yanks or the Cubs have the inside track. I would love for him to play here, but is it realitic especially with Ned's past with Boras?
2007-10-02 10:55:53
77.   das411
YES Jon!!! A worm-cam would have solved alllllll of this instant replay nonsense last night! Worm-cams for everybody!

Also, re: Bullpen Thoughts from the last thread, this from

[J. C.] Romero is a free agent after the season, but would be thrilled to return to the Phillies in 2008.

"I've enjoyed everything about being in Philadelphia," said Romero, who has a slim 1.99 ERA. "I've enjoyed my time here."

2007-10-02 10:56:09
78.   Humma Kavula
76 No, it's not realistic. But dreaming is free and pleasurable and sure is more fun than real life. So I'm going to continue to do that.
2007-10-02 10:57:48
79.   StolenMonkey86
What I would do if I was the commish:

1) No more interleague play

2) Instant Replay challenge rule. If a manager wants to challenge a play, umpires watch instant replay camera. If correct, the play is overturned, and the umpire who overthrew the play cannot personally eject the manager. If the manager is wrong, the opposing manager gets to select the player of his choice to be ejected.

2007-10-02 11:00:01
80.   ALbino
Great call on Falling Slowly. If there's a movie that surpasses Once as my "Fav of '07" I'll be shocked. That whole soundtrack is killer in fact, and it's been in my car rotation for months now.

By the way, I saw this interesting article on an Angel blog where they talk about the myths of the best team winning the world series, momentum heading into the playoffs and home field advantage. It's on the front page:

Kind of interesting. I guess you want to win a lot of games, but not TOO many? :)

2007-10-02 11:01:53
81.   Sam DC
So many people have such strong opinions about Holliday scoring or not scoring.

Based on what? I have no idea if he scored oer not -- the replays didn't seem conclusive at all. I didn't see one where you could actually see his hand and/or the plate.

Am I missing something?

2007-10-02 11:03:04
82.   Humma Kavula
79 Part 2 is hilarious. Every time I played the Cardinals, I'd encourage my players to make plays close -- just to get La Russa to challenge and be wrong. Then I'd eject Pujols.
2007-10-02 11:03:11
83.   wireroom
I was thinking maybe the weather and way of life are appealing to a guy like A-Rod. The money and the location plus that the Dodgers have a pretty good ball lcub give them a chance to get him I guess. I like dreaming too man.
2007-10-02 11:03:13
84.   Sam DC
BTW, "so many people" is more focused on the radioheads I heard this morning and friends in emails; not so much this crowd.
2007-10-02 11:03:53
85.   blue22
75 - scratch looks like only through Comcast and Time Warner

As opposed to? It's available via Directv now if that's what you have.

2007-10-02 11:04:53
86.   wireroom
Instant replay made that play look inconclusive but when I watched it in real time I thought he out until the ball rolled away. i think the ump was waiting to see if he held onto the ball
2007-10-02 11:05:40
87.   blue22
I think he probably missed the plate, but it's circumstantial at best, based on where I thought his hand was. Not at all conclusive.

But that homerun call was egregious. Not saying the umps should've corrected themselves (if no one saw it, no one saw it), but the replay was pretty obvious.

2007-10-02 11:10:44
88.   paranoidandroid
84 I can't follow what you are trying to say.
2007-10-02 11:16:47
89.   Zak
"Once" was an awesome movie. You come out of that movie like you've been in some oxygen bar or something. That movie gives out a natural high. And of course, love "Falling Slowly" and some other songs as well from that movie.
2007-10-02 11:17:06
90.   das411
(and Sam DC, thanks for that article by Boswell about Moyer, amazing to think how if Tommy G had come to Phila instead of NY when he left Atlanta, perhaps this last week goes in a whole different direction...)
2007-10-02 11:17:34
91.   kinbote
69 - i ordered the discbox too but am trying to figure out how to get the digital download when it becomes available. my home computer is el crasho and i'm currently relying on work computers for fun [i.e. reading Dodger Thoughts and occasionally incoherently commenting, like now]. i'm hoping i can download it, get it into itunes, and then burn a cd. is this realistic or is there a better way to feed my impatience for lp7?
2007-10-02 11:21:06
92.   kinbote
catching up on some other talk, i nominate "sky blue sky" by wilco as my favorite song of the year. i also make the following playoff predictions (i'm always wrong):

arizona, philly, boston, & cleveland win first round
philly & boston win second round
boston wins it all

2007-10-02 11:27:53
93.   Humma Kavula
I would like to nominate the New Pornographers' "Go Places" for a place in the song-of-the-year discussion.
2007-10-02 11:28:08
94.   KG16
Angels and Cleveland in the AL, Angels winning the pennant.

Arizona and Colorado in the NL (though I think Colorado and Philly go 5 games), Colorado winning the pennant.

Angels beat the Rockies in 6.

I think the Angels actually have the best offense for the playoffs - against the better pitching staffs, homeruns are less likely, and therefore the need to manufacture runs is more important, and the Angels are good at that.

2007-10-02 11:29:29
95.   KG16
oh, and since there was talk of myspace the other day... what do people think of starting a Dodger Thoughts group?
2007-10-02 11:32:52
96.   wireroom
dude, that wilco record is the best record of the year. I saw em a few weeks ago at the greek. one of the best shows i ever saw and i went right after i watched the Dodgers come back from 6 runs down to the Nats at the stadium. A perfect day for me.
2007-10-02 11:34:46
97.   Jon Weisman
43 - So, we're not brothers, then?

17 - Thanks. I feel that if it was intended for the Dodgers to pay the $4 million in 2008, that would have been specified. "Before the 2009 season" seems designed to have them postpone the payment until the latest possible point.

80, 89 - Have you heard the Frames' version of "Falling Slowly"?

2007-10-02 11:35:18
98.   gpellamjr
83 I'm probably wrong again (like the time I dreamed that Mike Piazza had been a switch hitter in the minor leagues), but I seem vaguely to recall that A-Rod had openly expressed a desire to be drafted by the Dodgers rather than the Mariners, and that Seattle experienced some hesitation about whether to draft him or Dreifort. If I'm right, perhaps A-Rod has always wanted to play in LA. If I'm wrong, I hope you all will chastise me severely.

95 Why on earth?

Prediction: Colorado will win the WS. If I'm wrong on this one, I will cease forever the making of predictions about sporting events.

2007-10-02 11:35:54
99.   Kevin Lewis

Sadly, I have Dish. It is not listed on their website, but that does not mean it isn't in the new programming. I will check when I get home for lunch.

2007-10-02 11:36:58
100.   Michael Green
Catching up on posts:

Re: Gasbags. I admit, I don't really look forward to Chip Caray's annoying habit of sounding like Charley Steiner in describing every fly ball as though it could be a home run. But he loves the game and at least does it all year, unlike a certain Fox pbp man who views post-season as an opportunity to show how bored he is with the game and how attuned he is to pop culture.

Re: Umpires. Joe Sheehan is a moron who knows nothing about umpiring. Tim McClelland is consistently rated at or near the top by players and managers. Was the runner safe? I don't know, but I know he worked the same game he always works.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-02 11:39:08
101.   Andrew Shimmin
98- Boras definitely wanted him to go to L.A., but I don't know if A-Rod cared.
2007-10-02 11:39:45
102.   wireroom
that ismy one complaint with Charlie Steinner is that he nearly gives me a heartattack every time a fly ball is hit.
2007-10-02 11:40:10
103.   jasonungar07
Yeah Kinbote..! The 2007 dodger season in a Wilco song...

This rotten time
Wouldn't seem so bad to me now
Oh, if I didn't die
I should be satisfied
I survived
That's good enough for now...

Right now my favorite new song is called "The Fizzy and the still" by Mark Knopfler

2007-10-02 11:42:14
104.   Chris H
93 That's a great song.

I'll nominate something off the new Jens Lekman record, but it is hard for me to choose a favorite.

2007-10-02 11:43:04
105.   Kevin Lewis
I don't know if Cameron would have had both hits last night, but you gotta feel for Brady Clark after the game last night.
2007-10-02 11:43:05
106.   Ken Noe
Jon: I too lost a team, when the Colts moved to Indianapolis. Must be how they feel in Brooklyn. I've followed NFL teams more or less since, but never with the passion I had for the Colts or have for the Dodgers. Indeed I missed it enough to take action this summer, and accordingly declared free agency. I contacted a dozen NFL teams I like and told them that I was available. The Browns won--sent me two nice e-mails, a window decal, three pockets schedules, and some stickers. It's not a Juan Pierre contract, but then at his age I had a better arm.
2007-10-02 11:44:13
107.   dzzrtRatt
95 The only changes I would want to Dodger Thoughts would be:

1. The ability for commenters to embed images and video.

2. The ability for Jon to make scads of money from it so he can quit his day job.

2007-10-02 11:44:59
108.   wireroom
anybody have thoughts on the new new pornographers record? didn't like it too much. checked them out last week when they played out here.
2007-10-02 11:47:18
109.   Jon Weisman
100 - The thing I hated about McClelland was his slow strike call - and I think that's relevant to the final play. I think keeping players in suspense about whether a pitch is a strike does a disservice.

The best part of Sheehan's column was the part about Hoffman.

2007-10-02 11:48:56
110.   Jon Weisman
107 - Take out a BlogAd on the sidebar, and 1 can lead to 2!
2007-10-02 11:49:25
111.   caseybarker
I'm starting to think a yearly subscription to BP would be better than my subcription to ESPN Insider.
2007-10-02 11:52:55
112.   dzzrtRatt
"Girls in their Summer Clothes" is a wonderful throwback to the Springsteen of his great second album. It's a little more contained than the anarchy of that album, but it has the same feeling as "Sandy" and "NYC Seranade." It's also reminiscent of my other favorite Bruce album, "The River."

I really didn't think he had another good album in him. But this seems to be one.

My other favorite new song (and believe me, I'm not a good source of information on the latest pop trends) is the New Pornographer's "Mutiny I Promise You" from "Challengers." The CD is fantastic. It's a lot less frenetic than what they've done in the past. The title song, sung by Neko Case, is also a highlight. Lovely.

And let's not forget Amy Winehouse. She might be TMZ fodder now, but her "Rehab" song and the "You Know I'm No Good" are great.

2007-10-02 11:54:49
113.   wireroom
I liked the call because I thought he was waiting to see if the catcher had dropped the ball which he did. that was my initial reaction anyway. but i do hate when they have a slow strike call. That must infuriate the batters. It is like some kind of game that he is playing with everybody.
2007-10-02 12:01:00
114.   Raf
47 I think a team would have a hard time giving up dates and revenues.

I say keep the season @ 162 games, but bring back weekend doubleheaders.

2007-10-02 12:01:47
115.   dzzrtRatt
108 I was reading your mind I guess.

I love "Challengers." It's definitely a quieter record than their previous three.

Back in the 70s, you could tell when your favorite rock star had fallen in love. Suddenly their music got a lot softer and gooier. There's a little of that going on -- more mandolins, banjos and violins for example -- but A.C. Newman continues to be the greatest Brian Wilson heir as a songwriter and arranger, and his vocal arrangements with Neko still give you chills.

However, I was glad that at their show in Hollywood was a loud show, and that they performed most of the new stuff with the same intensity as their older stuff. "All the Old Showstoppers" and "All the Things That Go to Make Heaven and Earth" came off particularly well in concert, as did the Dan Bejar tune "Myriad Harbor."

2007-10-02 12:04:02
116.   Humma Kavula
108 /112 You can't trust my opinion on the NPs because they're my favorite band and I'd be apologists for them even if the album was just AC Newman and Neko Case singing the names in the Vancouver phone book in beautiful harmony.

When I got the new album, it needed several listens for me to love it -- just like Twin Cinema did, and Electric Version, and Mass Romantic. And there are still things about it that I find disappointing -- I do wish there was a tune in which they really got rocking -- only Mutiny I Promise You and All of the Things that Go to Make Heaven and Earth really get going, and even those aren't as pleasing to me as, say, Sing Me Spanish Techno or The Laws Have Changed, to say nothing of Letter from an Occupant.

That said, though they might be in a slower, more contempletive mood, that suits Ms. Case, and the songs she's on shine. I love Challengers and Go Places, and she turns them out well. The opening track is also not so terrible, though I'm not sure that the refrain ("A new empire in rags / the truth in one free afternoon") is as memorable as that on some other NP tracks.

Also, Dan Bejar's tunes are among his best NP tracks -- yes, up there with Testament to Youth in Verse, which is high praise in my book. I'm not a huge Destroyer fan, but his stuff for the NPs is rich and strange.

In other words, I like their album and recommend it.

Oh, and they absolutely rocked the house two weeks ago. That concert made me very, very happy.

2007-10-02 12:04:55
117.   dzzrtRatt
110 I wish I was a good salesman. You need someone to sell the space on this site.

I can't believe that Alyssa Milano isn't advertising here at least. We are so nice to her!

2007-10-02 12:09:24
118.   Jon Weisman
117 - It's a thought. If someone wanted to sell on behalf of DT, I could give them a cut of the profits. That's what happens with BlogAds anyway.

I'm distancing myself from Alyssa now that she endorsed Kevin Kennedy as manager.

2007-10-02 12:10:56
119.   paranoidandroid
91 I am a music download newbie. My wife bought me an iPod Nano in August, just in time for it to be obsolete. She'll help me download LP7 next Wednesday. I hope it all works out okay. I also hope I can burn it to a CD so I can listen to it on my commute. If she gets it done right, I'll post about it. Good luck. Have you heard any of the new stuff? It is quite good, at least the versions going around last year. They might have tweaked them in the studio.
2007-10-02 12:12:39
120.   wireroom

I don't mind a quieter record than their previous releases, so it could be that I need to listen to it more thatn the few times that I have passively. I agree with you that their records take a few listens to get into sometimes because when I first was turned onto them by my friend a few years ago I didn't like them much, but then suddenly out of nowhere, I would have a hankering for listening to their tunes.

That live show was wonderful and i was pleased to see Neko with them because I was told that she rarely tours with them.

2007-10-02 12:12:51
121.   D4P
I'm distancing myself from Alyssa now that she endorsed Kevin Kennedy as manager

I saw that. It hurt.

2007-10-02 12:16:43
122.   Humma Kavula
120 Singing in harmony is an idea that seems to have gone out of fashion in pop music -- especially if it involves a male falsetto voice -- but that's one of the keys that unites my favorite pop music.

Oh, that and handclaps.

2007-10-02 12:17:46
123.   Daniel Zappala
D4P, aren't you married?
2007-10-02 12:20:19
124.   Andrew Shimmin
A couple Dodger questions in a row from BP's chat, today (it's still going):

Silv (NY, NY): Okay, so the Dodgers would have to be absolutely crazy to deal Matt Kemp, regardless of his baserunning faults, no? Is he not a Mini-Manny in the making or am I blind?

Jay Jaffe: Kemp's baserunning faults are overrated relative to his skill with the lumber. To suggest otherwise is to fly in the face of everything we know about how runs are created. Yes, outs on the basepaths are important, but roughly speaking they have an impact that's an order of magnitude lower (1 win/year difference between very good and very bad) than hitting skill.

His baserunning blunders are even more overrated when one considers the absurdity with which veteran Mark Sweeney is being lauded for leadership -- he made the team's biggest baserunning gaffe all year -- at a time when the Plaschke types are killing the Dodgers' kids in print.

I'm not sure the Manny comparison is apt; Kemp is faster and more athletic, but Manny is one of the 25 best hitters ever to walk the planet (11th all-time in EqA coming into the year, though his career needs a bit more length). I don't want to see him traded by any stretch of the imagination.


Rich (Columbus, OH): Jay, didn't know you were a Dodger fan. Are you as happy as I am to see that all of these "Trade Kemp" rumors are dying down? You don't think the Dodgers will actually trade any of their top prospects, do you? Also, does your last name rhyme with 'taffy'?

Jay Jaffe: I will be enraged but hardly surprised if and when Colletti pulls the trigger on something that goes beyond his punting of overrated prospects/youngsters like Joel Guzman and Dioner Navarro. Not sure who it is that wil be dealt, but you're talking Russian roulette with the cell phone in Ned's hand.

And yes, it's Jaffe like taffy. Or giraffie, as one of my childhood friends used to say.

2007-10-02 12:21:51
125.   D4P
Ha[p[p]ilyu so. ]i d]idn't mean that it hurt in that respect.

(That's my keyboard acting out. I cleaned this portion up)

2007-10-02 12:22:01
126.   Daniel Zappala
I have nothing to say about the groups mentioned here today, whoever they are. However, I did listen to some of 90125, by YES, the only LP of theirs I own, for the first time in 10 years, and it is still an awesome album.

I also listened to Rush, and explained to my kids how amazing Neil Peart is.

2007-10-02 12:22:48
127.   Sushirabbit
I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this. (I did only because Sanchez was one of my fantasy drafts) Just more on the hazards of young pitchers in pain:

2007-10-02 12:22:55
128.   Daniel Zappala
Let's all chip in and buy D4P a new motherboard for his laptop.
2007-10-02 12:23:59
129.   wireroom
harmonizing is a lost art. Especially three part harmonies like the NP's do. I always love bands who get creative with their vocals and stretch out
2007-10-02 12:24:03
130.   regfairfield
Just so I have my facts straight, is Alyssa Milano above or below Jenna Fischer in the DT pantheon?
2007-10-02 12:24:04
131.   regfairfield
Just so I have my facts straight, is Alyssa Milano above or below Jenna Fischer in the DT pantheon?
2007-10-02 12:24:11
132.   dzzrtRatt
122 I'd put Neko/AC on a par with Johnny Cash and June Carter, George Jones and Tammy Wynette, Marvin Gaye and Tammi Tyrrel, or John Doe and Exene. They are that good together. I'm a fan of Neko's solo music, and she deserves the success she's starting to accumulate. But I hope she maintains her ties with Newman/NPs.
2007-10-02 12:26:16
133.   trainwreck
Totally below.
2007-10-02 12:26:27
134.   caseybarker
Yes had some great albums, including "Fragile".

Rush is one of the greatest Rock and Roll bands ever.

2007-10-02 12:27:16
135.   Humma Kavula
131 /133 OK -- and the the winner in the Jenna vs. Danica DT smackdown is...?
2007-10-02 12:28:57
136.   Jon Weisman
131 - Alyssa is not in Jenna's pantheon. Although Jenna is more of a Screen Jam muse. Danica is the DT belle of the ball.
2007-10-02 12:29:27
137.   Bluebleeder87
knowing the Rockies have better defense (thanks Bob, you rock) I really feel they have a compelling chance of winning this series, plus they had an absolutely GREAT stretch run.
2007-10-02 12:31:18
138.   paranoidandroid
Kevin Kennedy to manage the Dodgers? No thanks. I don't see it as realistic either.

Although, he used to be a manager and a catcher and he's happy to tell you that as often as he's able to fit it into any sentence about baseball.

Kennedy's Kofidential should find a way to add one more K so he's called out on strikes and has to go sit down and be quiet.

2007-10-02 12:31:20
139.   wireroom
Someone should stick a huge freeway adviretisement sign up in front of dodger stadium with the pictures of Mike Piazza, Pedro Martinez, Paul Konerko, John Wetteland etc., on it saying "Dear Ned Colletti, these hall of famers and batting champ were all Dodger prospects. Don't trade Kemp away!"
2007-10-02 12:31:27
140.   trainwreck
Aww come on!! They are re-making "The Brood."

I hate Hollywood.

2007-10-02 12:31:38
141.   regfairfield
136 Sounds good. In my defense I don't "get" Jenna Fischer.
2007-10-02 12:32:39
142.   Bob Timmermann
Stanford will be without its starting QB T.C. Ostrander Saturday at the Coliseum against USC.

Ostrander suffered a seizure at a restaurant over the weekend. Having a seizure and having the chance to have large men hit you in the head soon after are not a good mixture.

2007-10-02 12:35:59
143.   paranoidandroid
As well as the Rocks have played in the last two weeks, I can see them getting swept. I think Philly chasing down the Mets is an even bigger triumph. There is only room for one Cinderella gents, and she is wearing orange.
2007-10-02 12:37:31
144.   Jon Weisman
Now that it's been proven that quarterbacking in the NFL is easier than quarterbacking for Stanford, it makes sense for him just to wait it all out.
2007-10-02 12:39:34
145.   regfairfield
143 I think the Rockies are pretty much superior in every way to the Phillies. They have a better rotation, far better defense and a better back end of the bullpen with a comparable lineup. I have to say that Colorado is the favorite in that series.
2007-10-02 12:40:51
146.   trainwreck
I think Trey Brown may be Bob's new favorite football player.

"I'm not a big Notre Dame fan, so I don't know what they have done prior in their history, all I know is I don't like the green," Brown said at a Monday news conference. "I don't even like money this week, that color. Before I came in here, I threw my wallet in the trash. I don't like those guys and they don't like us, that's what it is. It comes down to who's going make more plays Saturday."

2007-10-02 12:42:44
147.   Daniel Zappala
142 Wow. I hope he's OK. I had a seizure once, while playing football at Stanford. Only it was intramural touch football. I've probably told that story too many times already.

144 Now that made me laugh. Good for Trent Edwards. I went out of my way to read the Buffalo News report on that game.

2007-10-02 12:43:17
148.   Bob Timmermann
Someone should tell Trey Brown that Notre Dame really wears blue.
2007-10-02 12:46:32
149.   Disabled List
139 Then Colletti will put up a billboard next to it with pictures of Joel Guzman and Dioner Navarro, and the caption "But I was able to get Mark Hendrickson and Julio Lugo for these guys. Just imagine what kind of Devil Ray I can get for Kemp!"
2007-10-02 12:46:48
150.   paranoidandroid
143 I personally would like to see the Rocks take it all, but I don't think they have enough pitching. Their young arms have some potential, but they aren't ready for the pressure they are about to face. I think that bullpen is overrated. Not that Philly has much more going for them overall in that department, but I think homefield advantage, an extra day of rest, less traveling, and the absence of a brutal 13 inning game tips the scales in their favor.

I could be wrong.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-02 12:47:03
151.   wronghanded
145 I don't see how Francis, Jimenez and Fogg are considered better than Hamels, Kendrick and Lohse. I think its going to be a great series and the winner will be the eventual NL champion, same with the Red Sox Angels series.
2007-10-02 12:47:39
152.   Daniel Zappala
There are some things that can get you banned from DT, right? Like joking about trading Kemp to Tampa Bay. That would be right up there on the list. :-)
2007-10-02 12:49:44
153.   bhsportsguy
146 I like Trey Brown, he's one the few players I can talk to eye to eye. (Okay, he is a little taller than me but not much).

Trey told me during fall camp that he was going to get 7 interceptions, he has 3 so far.

2007-10-02 12:51:00
154.   underdog
2007-10-02 12:51:55
155.   Jon Weisman
152 - I think that comes under Rule 3.
2007-10-02 12:52:30
156.   bhsportsguy
ToyCannon - if James McDonald is only the No. 7 prospect in the Cal League per Baseball America (no other Dodgers made the top 20), do you think he will be in the Southern League top 20?
2007-10-02 12:56:22
157.   goofus
Rooting conflict. I like both the Snakes and the Rocks because they both have a lot of young players like the Dodgers. But at least one of them has to lose. A Rocks V Red Sox series would be great but so would a Snakes V Red Sox........
2007-10-02 12:59:05
158.   Humma Kavula
What WS would you least like to see? It's tough, because any of the NL teams would be fun to root for over the Yankees.

Still, I'm not sure I could get into New York vs. Arizona.

2007-10-02 13:00:43
159.   trainwreck
I want Arizona vs Colorado so bad.

A big screw you to the rest of the country and especially to ESPN and Fox.

2007-10-02 13:01:14
160.   wronghanded
I'm saying Philly vs. LA Jr., LA Jr. in 6.
2007-10-02 13:01:17
161.   Jon Weisman
From Tony Jackson:

"Tony Abreu will undergo surgery tomorrow to repair a sports hernia. He is expected to be fully healed in six to eight weeks and then resume his normal offseason conditioning, which should leave him fully ready to go by the start of spring training. ... The MRI on Furcal's left ankle showed nothing serious, he won't need surgery, and he is expected to be at full strength by the start of spring training after resting and rehabbing during the winter."

2007-10-02 13:04:58
162.   Disabled List
I could root for the Rockies, Phillies or Indians. I despise the other three AL teams, and watching the Diamondbacks win their 2nd title this decade would be a little tough for this Dodger fan to take.

And I would root for the Cubbies, but I dread the insufferable bandwagon of arrogance that would follow a Cubs World Series win. Have we learned nothing from the 2004 Red Sox?

2007-10-02 13:11:13
163.   Bluebleeder87
You know, it's probably a good thing Etanislao Abreu is having surgery maybe like that his conditioning will improve (looking at it in a positive way) from what I remember of spring training he came a little on the chubby side. I'm expecting good things from Furcal in '08.
2007-10-02 13:19:06
164.   blue22
162 - I think Cleveland vs. Colorado has the least offensive outlook. I have a hard time picturing a Cleveland WS title producing more bandwagon fans than came as a result of the movie "Major League".

Cubby fans definitely have high insufferable potential (not quite at the '04 Red Sox level, but definitely moreso than the '05 ChiSox). I'm with you on AZ getting WS #2. It's bad enough that Florida has 2 already.

NY, Boston, and Anaheim are immediately disqualified based on current insufferability levels.

2007-10-02 13:21:03
165.   regfairfield
151 Lohse is at best average and Kendrick is terrible (look at the guys perhiperals, 3.64 K/9 with a 1.19 HR/9). Josh Fogg isn't any good either but I'd still take what the Rockies have rather than the Phillies.
2007-10-02 13:21:12
166.   gibsonhobbs88
What a classic game and what a bizarre finishing play. If the umpire truly believed he got his hand on the plate under the leg of Barrett, why didn't he decisively call him safe at that moment? Why did we wait for Barrett to pick up the ball and approach Holliday to tag him before the ump signify safe? I could not see one angle that would decisively show me he got his hand under the catcher's knee and on the plate. Did he get caught up in the moment and the home Rockie crowd?
This is where I would consider instant replay for calls like this in a play in game for the postseason and post season series. I agree it would not be good in the long run for regular season games-too many games, too much a logistical headache. However, after 162 games, for games and a team's postseason hopes to be dashed by a badly miscalled play goes against my sense of justice. Would this umpire have made the same call if the game was held in San Diego? I am not a Padre fan but I've seen the Dodgers get more than their share of the shaft in World Series play (Reggie's hip check deflection still rankles me to this day). Cowherd made a point this morning that instant replay is a human invention so you would not be taking out the human element in that if no overwhelming evidence to the contrary, then the umpires' call will still stand like in the NFL.
2007-10-02 13:23:19
167.   old dodger fan
I would like to see the Cubs win the series just because it's been so long for them but if the Yankees lose in the first round I will be happy no matter what else happens.
2007-10-02 13:24:45
168.   Daniel Zappala
164 NY, Boston, and Anaheim are immediately disqualified based on current insufferability levels.

There are lots of non-insufferable Angels fans that are DT commenters.

2007-10-02 13:25:35
169.   ALbino
97 Yeah, though I like the Once version better. Watching that movie not only motivated me to get The Frames album, it also motivated me to rent The Commitments which is a movie I had forgotten existed until I saw on IMDb that Glen Hansard was in it.

I think if I was to ever make a movie I'd like to do it Once-style; just simple, eloquent, and pure.

2007-10-02 13:26:35
170.   delias man
Would a AZ or Col WS win force the hand of McCourt to make THE huge FA signing if HE did become available?
2007-10-02 13:26:55
171.   Daniel Zappala
166 This is exactly the type of call that Instant Replay (a misnomer if there ever was one!) would not settle, because there were not conclusive replays. The rest of your comment was summarily ignored because you invoked Colin Cowherd, the worst sports radio personality around. Thank goodness for Dan Patrick's new morning radio show.
2007-10-02 13:28:38
172.   Robert Daeley
166 I think he was pausing to see if the catcher had the ball or not.
2007-10-02 13:30:31
173.   blue22
168 - And I feel bad about depriving you of a championship for your "other family". I really do. But such are the innocent victims of playoff baseball. Heck, I have some wonderful friends that are Giants fans, but I'll be damned if I ever want them to experience a championship.
2007-10-02 13:30:40
174.   ToyCannon
The two teams with the most ex-dodgers both collapsed in the last week of baseball.

The absurdity of Sept baseball with 35 man rosters made what should have been a great playoff game, comical.

Until every team has to declare a 25 man active roster for each game I'll always find Sept baseball a cheap version of the real game.

Having watched Brady Clark play CF, maybe we shouldn't be so quick to brand our own CF. I have seriously seen better outfield play from a Santa Monica B league then what Clark, Holliday, and Hawpe were showing last night.

2007-10-02 13:31:10
175.   old dodger fan
166 I suspect he thought Barrett got the ball in time to make the tag but held off making the call to see if he held on to it. Watching the replay at I don't think Holliday tagged the base but that is a tough call to make real time.
2007-10-02 13:31:48
176.   ToyCannon
You and I stand united against the ignorance.
2007-10-02 13:36:19
177.   Disabled List
168 There are lots of non-insufferable Angels fans that are DT commenters.

We're going with generalizations based on the demeanor of the fan base as a whole, not the small sample size of well-mannered DT commenters. NY, Boston and Anaheim indeed have the most insufferable fan bases in baseball, for my money.

The Cubs fans would rocket to the top of that list if the team were to win the World Series.

2007-10-02 13:36:53
178.   ToyCannon
I haven't a clue what managers, coaches, and scouts think about our prospects until their thoughts are published, and even then I take them with a grain of salt because everyone has an agenda, and telling the truth to BA is probably not high on their list.

My own opinion is that McDonald is one of the top 10 prospects in the Southern league based on his numbers.

2007-10-02 13:37:01
179.   trainwreck
ESPNews is reporting that the Braves will not re-sign Andruw Jones.
2007-10-02 13:37:40
180.   kinbote
119 for whatever reason, i've been resisting listening to the new stuff until it's officially released. "house of cards" is one that i did hear and like a lot. that being said, rolling stone has a pretty decent track preview feature with song samples. it's the same stuff from the good sites (green plastic, etc.), but easier to navigate. i'm beyond excited, to say the least.
2007-10-02 13:39:07
181.   Bob Timmermann
I plan on rooting for the Angels. The Angels 2002 postseason started right on the heels of my father passing away on 9/30.

I had relatives from the St. Louis area coming out and we watched some of that series against the Diamondbacks together. They liked being out here because one of the Cardinals-DBacks games started at 8 pm. Pacific Time.

I remember seeing Game 2 of the ALDS between the Yankees and Angels on a monitor at Burbank Airport while waiting to pick up a relative.

We cleaned out most of the stuff from my dad's house during Game 4 of the ALDS between the Angels and Yankees.

And it almost all ended on a sad note as Game 6 of the WS almost made Russ Ortiz AND Shawon Dunston heroes.


But not quite. Thanks be to to Spiezio.

2007-10-02 13:39:29
182.   wronghanded
165 peripherals aside, their is something to be said about a 10-4 record with a sub-4 ERA sometimes overanalysis is not needed, his 1.27 WHIP is good enough. Tom Glavine has made a career out of being a Houdini act on the hill, some pitchers get tougher with runners on.
2007-10-02 13:39:31
183.   gibsonhobbs88
172 - But if that is the case, once he sees the catcher pick up the ball on the ground, he should have signaled safe, he delayed the call until he went to tag Holliday, that's what made the safe call so odd to me.
171 - To each their own buddy. I admit the Herd isn't for everyone but neither is Stern, Imus or Hannity either. I'm not a fan of the others but I get a kick out of the Herd's rants, some I agree with and some I don't. Also, I was more making a point that since the umpire had such a strange delay for a safe call that if instant replay was in effect they could have at least looked at it to see if there was conclusive evidence to the contrary. It's moot now since Bud Black is now fighting it even stating "I think he got it" talking about Holliday's hand touching the plate. This is supposed to be a free exchange of ideas and comments and I wouldn't summarily dismiss your opinion because you quote Stern or Imus for example.
2007-10-02 13:39:33
184.   bhsportsguy
178 Score one for you and me in the chat, DeJesus for you, Lucas May for me.
2007-10-02 13:40:07
185.   kinbote
170 what about an angels championship? i think that's likely to be even more motivating.

btw, how strange that the padres, dodgers, brewers, & mets are watching. it seems like they were leading the pack all year long.

2007-10-02 13:43:44
186.   al bundy
I haven't been pumped up about a Springsteen album in years, but "Magic" has lots of potential. Over the weekend, I was listening to the new all Springsteen channel on Sirius. They played a recording of a concert from the '80s held in Stockholm. In his rap between songs, Bruce talked about what a nice day he had spent in Stockholm, with all the girls wearing their "summer clothes."

I was in Stockholm 2 summers ago, and it was quite a sight to see, those girls in their summer clothes.

2007-10-02 13:43:45
187.   Jon Weisman
174 - Toy, we have to agree to disagree, because I am still confounded by this criticism. The baseball season is a contest between organizations, not 25-man rosters. The rules are the same for everyone, and you can prepare for it.

Was what we saw any less comical than what we otherwise would have seen ... pitchers pinch-hitting, for example?

I could live with either 25- or 40-man rosters, because I enjoy extra innings so much either way. But I don't think the 40-man makes the game inferior.

Maybe you could explain how the expanded rosters actually hurt last night's game...

2007-10-02 13:44:12
188.   gibsonhobbs88
183 -Sorry, I meant Black is not fighting it instead of "now fighting it".
2007-10-02 13:44:21
189.   wronghanded
I believe that this is the first year since the divisional playoffs began that their are 4 new teams in 1 league from the previous year to the next.
2007-10-02 13:44:22
190.   LAT
Ironically, what makes baseball tedious in May is what makes it so exciting in Oct. In May they call each pitch "slow pace." In Oct. its called "suspense build up."
2007-10-02 13:45:02
191.   Andrew Shimmin
Do they sell tickets for player's union complaint cases? I'd love to see Colletti (or, more likely, some one he delegated to do it), explain how Abreu really is the George Costanza of faking an injury, willing even to get cut open to continue the charade.
2007-10-02 13:46:23
192.   Jon Weisman
I don't see how Angels fans could possibly be in the same pantheon of insufferability as NY or Boston.
2007-10-02 13:47:40
193.   Robert Daeley
183 I'll have to disagree with that -- once the ump sees the ball, he begins to indicate "safe" right as the catcher jumps back toward the runner. It's simultaneous.
2007-10-02 13:47:45
194.   ALbino
192 Seriously. It's really not even up for debate.
2007-10-02 13:48:30
195.   bhsportsguy
170 No
185 No it won't have any impact on whether the Dodgers sign a big money free agent.
2007-10-02 13:49:50
196.   The Mootz
181 - My father passed away four months after the Angels won it all in 2002. Even though I'm slightly envious of their recent success, remember how much my dad loved this team reminds me to root for them if my Dodgers aren't playing in October.

I'd love to see the Cubs win it all, but I don't think they have the pitching.

I'm primarily rooting for exciting games; if we can have some more games like the classic last night, I'll be happy,

2007-10-02 13:51:54
197.   old dodger fan
196 My Dad passed away during the '02 season. He was a big Braves fan. I used to hate them but just can bring myself to root against them anymore.
2007-10-02 13:52:57
198.   ToyCannon
It has been a pet peeve of mine since I 1st found out that Sept baseball was different then April-Aug baseball when I was but a sprig. For 131 games you play with a fixed 25 man roster. For 30 of the most key games you play with an unlimited roster. It doesn't happen in any other sport and just seems ludicrous to me.

How can you change roster rules for 1/5 of a season?

And yes it totally changed how the game was played last night. Maybe it was only one or two moves but it was moves that would not have happened if they only had 25 players to work with.

2007-10-02 13:53:39
199.   gibsonhobbs88
192 - totally agree. Yankee fan thinks its their birthright to be in a WS. Red Sox fans are so obsessed about their rivals in NY that they disdain any other team that could beat them. Angel fans are mostly polite unless you are going to pour beer on them like some over zealous Dodger fans have done to Angel fans at the Ravine. They are both Socal - teams in this region folks, enjoy and savor the good baseball from either one. If and when a Freeway World Series happens here, then root whole heartedly for the Dodgers. Remember, 1/2 the Angel coaching staff played in the 88 World Series, we as Dodger fans should have a sense of pride about that.
2007-10-02 13:54:04
200.   El Lay Dave
65 "Don't you know that I gotta get out of here
'Cause New York's not my home"
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-02 13:55:21
201.   El Lay Dave
77 All things considered, he'd rather be in Philadelphia?
2007-10-02 13:55:22
202.   regfairfield
182 No, it's really not. Win loss record, ERA, and to a lesser extent WHIP aren't reproduceable numbers. You can not survive with perhiperals that bad. Glavine's strikeout rates were at least average and he didn't give up jacks like they were candy.

Kendrick is succeeding because he strands runners on base like the elite pitchers. If he were qualified for the pitching title, the leaders in strand rate would look like this:


Which one of those names doesn't belong? Once he stops having his preternatural ability to not suck with runners on base, he'll collapse.

2007-10-02 13:56:20
203.   Sam DC
Wow. This -- -- is a NY Times article on a new Director's Cut of Blade Runner. It is a very interesting read but warning -- it contains a mega-spoiler re the story.

Or at least, it was mega to me.

2007-10-02 13:56:24
204.   Daniel Zappala
177 If we're categorizing fans based on generalizations, then Yankee fans deserve the label of Worst Fans in Baseball for how they have treated Alex Rodriguez.
2007-10-02 13:56:39
205.   bhsportsguy
174 187

This gets debated every year of how the expanded rosters makes September seem like spring training games.

But everyone operates under the same rules though the Dodgers did call up more players than most clubs.

2007-10-02 13:57:43
206.   Daniel Zappala
Thanks be to to Spiezio.

One of the funniest lines in a while. Thanks for your perspective on the series, Bob.

2007-10-02 13:59:00
207.   bhsportsguy
199 Can I find their announcers annoying at least?
2007-10-02 13:59:49
208.   Daniel Zappala
183 Sorry, the crack on Cowherd was meant tongue-in-cheek. I still think the delay was to see if the catcher had the ball.
2007-10-02 14:03:37
209.   regfairfield
Every fanbase can be seperated into two categories:


Consider how bad ITD is. That's the average baseball fan right there.

2007-10-02 14:05:27
210.   wronghanded
202 I guess we can agree to disagree, Kendrick isn't great but I think he's better than Jimenez or Fogg and I think Hamels is better than Francis, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'm saying Philly in 4.
2007-10-02 14:08:21
211.   Jon Weisman
198 - It changed last night's game, but how did it change it for the worse?

As for other sports, college football and hockey have in recent years put in rules changes (to prevent ties) that to me are far more radical than adding players to the back of a roster. For that matter, college football also has different size rosters depending on whether you're the home team or the away team.

2007-10-02 14:10:53
212.   blue22
209 - Or look at a lot of the members of Bronx Banter. There's some good people in there, first and foremost Alex B.
2007-10-02 14:12:00
213.   ToyCannon
Kendrick has been lucky and I think his luck will continue into the postseason. I'll back your prediction but I expect it to go 5 games.
Matt Herges won't be getting Utely, Rollins, Burrel, and Howard out like he did the dismal Padre lineup. Corpas will be a corpse by the end of the 1st round after he gets Lidged.
2007-10-02 14:12:56
214.   regfairfield
212 True, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I'm sure the Yankees official board is filled up with stereotypical "Yankee fan".
2007-10-02 14:14:00
215.   regfairfield
213 Herges is terrible, but the back end of the bullpen sees much less play in the postseason than in the regular season. I'd be surprised if he threw a relevant inning in Octoboer.
2007-10-02 14:14:08
216.   blue22
214 - Well, I would say, and I'm probably fanning the flames here, but the good Angel fans in here are an exception to the Rally Monkey crowd that represents the new breed of Angel fan.
2007-10-02 14:14:57
217.   gibsonhobbs88
207 - Yes you can, LOL!!

208 - Okay, no harm done! As far as the delay, it was still odd to me. You might have a good theory as to what he was looking for. The timing of his call was just very odd. NL order of rooting:
Cubs (lots of transplanted Chicogoans are good friends of fine, they've suffered enough).
Rockies - The terrible H's lead a potent exciting offense. Series with the Phils might include 10-8 games nightly!!
Phillies - Potent offense and good old school players in Utley and Rollins make team fun to watch. Downgraded because Philly fans are tough to take as well.
D'Backs - Only good will do - maybe give Ned a kick in the pants to make a big move not just another mediocre PVL move.
AL - Angels - my Socal AL representative in the postseason, Scioscia and the brand of aggressive baserunning and ball playing I like to watch.
Indians - 2nd longest championship drought- 1948 - worth rooting them against the Bronx Bombers
Red Sox - Only one championship since 1918, can stomach them a little better than the Yanks.
NYY - I sooner eat tainted monkey meat than watch them win another title!!

2007-10-02 14:17:34
218.   wronghanded
213 Don't forget Rowand in that mix either, I will even go as far as saying the Phillies have a better offense: higher OPS, 42 more HRs and playing in 2 launching pads.
2007-10-02 14:19:00
219.   ToyCannon
Because I like to see managers work within the confines of a 25 man roster, especially when a game goes extra innings. The game last night was great, but I think it would have even been better to see how each manager would have dealt with a life and death game with 25 players instead of 35.

Luckily for me real baseball starts again tomorrow.

2007-10-02 14:22:02
220.   blue22
Some Johan Santana trade news, via Rotoworld. I didn't realize he had no-trade protection, which may increase the leverage of an acquiring team if the Twins are insistent on trading him:

Johan Santana indicated that he might be willing to waive his no-trade rights if the Twins decide to shop him.

"Everything about the Twins, I love," Santana said. "At the same time, if I have to go somewhere else, and it's for the better, I'll do it. I won't have any problems with that." Santana isn't likely to earn the top-three Cy Young finish he needed to retain his full no-trade protection next year. Still, he can block trades to 12 teams and put mostly contenders on that list. There hasn't been any indication that tht Twins will revisit talks with Santana anytime soon. A last-ditch effort to keep Torii Hunter is the first priority.

2007-10-02 14:25:19
221.   Bob Timmermann
If you limited the roster to 25 players, but still allowed September callups, you could have a situation like Japanese baseball rosters or even NHL rosters, and have players who are "healthy scratches."

Before a game starts in Japan, the PA announcer comes on and reads off the names of all the active players for the game. Pretty much any starting pitcher who is not available is put on the "inactive list." So e every game in Japan, a manager has about 8 relievers ready to go.

And the Japanese do love their pitching changes. Unless the ace is pitching. Then he stays out until his arm falls off. But if you're not the ace, every manager in Japan turns into Tony La Russa or Clint Hurdle.

2007-10-02 14:34:42
222.   El Lay Dave
215 I'd be surprised if [Herges] threw a relevant inning in October

Other than yesterday, October 1st.

2007-10-02 14:35:57
223.   ToyCannon
My last comment on the matter. The latest post on CubTown shows why he's a Lou fan. If this game had been played in Sept, the whole scenario would have been moot.
2007-10-02 14:39:33
224.   Bob Timmermann
Here's an example:
2007-10-02 14:42:26
225.   bhsportsguy
If you were Kevin Towers do you...
1. Offer Milton Bradley arbitration;
2. Buyout Hoffman for $2 million or have him on your team for $7.5 million;
3. Try to teach Kooz how to play LF.
2007-10-02 14:44:46
226.   Joshua Worley
I think the Rockies are slightly better than the Phillies, and indeed are the best playoff team now in the NL.

If anyone is interested I did a team stat breakdown for every NL playoff team on Dodgerama, with weighting factors based on how much it appears each player will play. In other words the fifth starter and back end bullpen and bench guys are left out of the stat averages, and an ace who would pitch 2 of the 5 games is counted double a starter who would pitch just one game.

Short version: Rockies, Phillies, and Cubs are all pretty good, with the Rockies slightly ahead and the Cubs slightly behind. The Snakes are way way behind everyone else.


I agree with 219 --- the game last night would have been better if the teams were limited to a 25 man roster. I've never liked key pennant race games being decided with bloated rosters. It's not a big deal, just an annoyance.

2007-10-02 14:45:21
227.   El Lay Dave
220 Still, [Santana] can block trades to 12 teams and put mostly contenders on that list.

I wonder what Johan considers the Dodgers?

2007-10-02 14:46:14
228.   blue22
225 - 1. Won't he be out almost all season? He can't take more than a 10% pay cut via arbitration, so I'd say pass on that one.

2. For a net $5.5M, I'd bring Hoffman back. Last night was an aberration; he's still a pretty good pitcher.

3. In that expansive park, I'd be worried. Mike Cameron won't be back to cover Kouz's ground. May as well keep him at third, until Headley's ready and then try to trade his bat back to the AL.

2007-10-02 14:47:28
229.   LogikReader
Final postseason prediction

I would guess Phillies/Indians will be the World Series, but I would not be at all surprised to see something like Rockies/Angels.

2007-10-02 14:48:45
230.   blue22
229 - Final postseason prediction

Dang, I was just getting ready to post mine. Oh well, I'll be quicker next year.

2007-10-02 14:49:15
231.   El Lay Dave
Without the Sept. callup roster, there is no R. J. Reynolds squeeze play.
2007-10-02 14:49:43
232.   bhsportsguy
BTW - this is just a comment on the nicknames that have been used on DT for a few of the Dodgers.

Brian Dohn, the LA Daily News UCLA beat writer, takes questions once a week and then publishes his answers in his Daily News blog on Fridays. There is always at least one question referring to Brandon Breezel, UCLA wide receivor as Blade. I can't recall if that is his actual nickname but I know it gets used a lot on chat boards.

Anyway, Dohn usually replies something like, "who are talking about?"

So just remember, whenever chatting or writing to non-DT folks, if you ask if Bison will play RF next season, they probably won't know who are talking about.

2007-10-02 14:51:55
233.   ToyCannon
A 4th place team. I don't think players are capable of deeper thought then that.
2007-10-02 14:52:24
234.   bhsportsguy
228 The question will be, is Heath Bell ready for the job at a third of the cost (2 million plus Bell's salary).

From a PR side, I doubt they will do it since Trevor did not get a great sendoff at Petco.

2007-10-02 14:53:09
235.   D4P
A big paycheck. I don't think players are capable of deeper thought then [sic] that.
2007-10-02 14:53:17
236.   LogikReader

I should be more specific... final LogikReader postseason prediction, hahahahaha

2007-10-02 14:55:02
237.   blue22
236 - In that case, Indians over Phillies. :)
2007-10-02 14:56:49
238.   trainwreck
I love Coach Howland's plan to build camps and work with a bunch of kids in Cameroon. He is basically creating a feeder system for UCLA.
2007-10-02 14:57:35
239.   dzzrtRatt
I wonder if last night's play wasn't a case of Barrett and Holliday playing chicken with the ump, and Barrett losing.

Here's what I mean. Maybe it was no more clear to the ump than to any of the camera angles whether Holliday did or did not touch the plate. Happened fast, body parts flying, cloud of dust, tons of noise.

So there's Holliday laying on his back. There's Barrett fishing around for the ball.

If Holliday lunges for the plate, that's a signal to the ump that he doesn't think he made it. If Barrett lunges to tag Holliday, then that's a sign Barrett thinks he didn't tag him. Holliday, perhaps aware of this, didn't move. The ump, figuring he knows if he touched the plate or not, calls him safe.

This is one of those calls it is almost pointless to debate. None of the camera angles give you anything more than evidence toward a conclusion, but no actual conclusion. The base is obscured at the key moments in every angle. I think he was safe, and I can tell you why I think that. But I also hate the Padres and loved the 13th inning comeback against "Trev," so that undoubtedly colors my thinking.

2007-10-02 14:57:45
240.   blue22
234 - Yeah, I was kinda taking sentimentality into account too. Would you let the face of the franchise go, who is still a pretty effective pitcher especially considering the park they play in, for $5M?

Heath Bell may be ready to step in, but you're sacrificing depth in the bullpen. This keeps Bell for the high-leverage situations, and Hoffman as the token 9th inning guy anyway.

2007-10-02 14:59:44
241.   blue22
239 - I question whether or not Holliday had the mental capacity to make a snap-decision bluff like that. He was looking a little groggy.

Has anyone heard how he's feeling today? Does he even remember that play?

2007-10-02 15:02:41
242.   dzzrtRatt
Santana is a one-year rental. No matter how you slice it, any team that tries to get him will be asked to pay for Johan Santana, superstar pitcher. But what's really on offer is one year of Santana before he tests the market. The better he does for his team next year, the less likely it is that they can sign him. He'd be a fool not to test the market.

Even if Santana was traded to the tender bosom of St. Mary, I think he'd test the market after a year.

2007-10-02 15:02:53
243.   El Lay Dave
234 Heath Bell just turned 30. If he isn't ready now, he likely never will be. Was there some knock on this guy that he got his chance so late? His numbers, minors and majors, are pretty good. Mets fans could tell, I'll bet.
2007-10-02 15:05:00
244.   El Lay Dave
"Mets fans could tell me, ..."
2007-10-02 15:09:51
245.   ToyCannon
Joe Sheehan of BP was always a huge Heath Bell booster but his performance just didn't mesh until now. Petco? Confidence? Bud Black? Maturation? Some Combo?
2007-10-02 15:11:04
246.   Humma Kavula
Even if Santana was traded to the tender bosom of St. Mary, I think he'd test the market after a year.

Johan Santana, ca. 2009: "I have always wanted to play for 'Avenue Q's' Lucy the Slut. Though just a puppet, Lucy showed real desire to be a winner..."

2007-10-02 15:11:32
247.   wireroom
all those gas bag baseball analysts at have made their picks for who takes each series. It is amazing how biased they are towards an overated east coast team like the red sox.
2007-10-02 15:15:23
248.   Sam DC
The thing about Santana is, why wouldn't he be ready to sign a massive extension based on his current record/age etc? Playing another year before extending seems like only downside risk -- can he really increase his value (whereas injury would be devastating and, to a lesser extent, poor performance would take him down a notch).

But the Twins have their limits, so he needs a trade. And a trade should make sense for the Twins since they should be able to get high value in terms of prospects assuming Santana is going to extend with his new team.

Unless the Twins really think they can make a serious run next year behind him in a contract year.

2007-10-02 15:16:45
249.   regfairfield
247 Overrated compared to what? They scored the third most runs in baseball and allowed the least. If anything, they're underrated.
2007-10-02 15:19:50
250.   xaphor
Sam DC,

There is a UK TV documentary, The Edge of Blade Runner, which came out in 2000 with lots of interesting tidbits, interviews and outtakes on the film. It's brief (just under an hour) and not terribly well produced, but a fascinating watch for fans of the film.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-02 15:20:19
251.   bhsportsguy
247 Boston allowed the fewest runs in the majors (they were tied with the Padres until yesterday) and they scored the fourth most in the majors for a the best run differential in the baseball.

They were tied for 2nd in Defensive Effiency and tied for third in the majors in fielding percentage.

Now, ESPN could very well be biased towards the Red Sox but when you look at the stats, they are not overrated.

2007-10-02 15:28:41
252.   bhsportsguy
An interesting comparison is that Boston had an ERA under 4 while playing half their games in the best offensive ballpark in baseball while the Padres were just a few tenths better despite playing in the worst offensive ballpark in the majors.
2007-10-02 15:32:55
253.   bigcpa
In my opinion this is our competition for A. Jones based on money and need for a CF:

White Sox

2007-10-02 15:35:38
254.   trainwreck
Competition? Why would we want Andruw Jones?
2007-10-02 15:36:08
255.   wireroom
yeah, but their starting pitching I don't think matches up with what the Angels have. I just think the Angels have a lot more intangibles. I guess this goes against statistical analysis, and I am by no means an Angels fan, but I like the Angels pitching better.
2007-10-02 15:38:56
256.   underdog
211 Speaking of the CubTown post, is that subject header a MASH reference? Is Lou Pinella Col. Blake or Col. Potter?

253 Giants could be players for him, too (at least according to murmurs in SF Chron story on the Giants '08 today)

2007-10-02 15:38:56
257.   wireroom
The Angels are a mistake free ball club which makes a huge difference in the playoffs as evidenced by last nights game
2007-10-02 15:40:44
258.   wireroom
plus the Angels don't make mistakes and that is huge in playoff baseball as seen in last nights game
2007-10-02 15:41:33
259.   Howard Fox
239 chicken?? the ump made that call about as quickly as he made all his ball and strike calls all evening...the more times I saw the replay the more I believed he had only a doubt as to whether Barrett caught the ball or not...if so, out...if not, safe...that is how I saw the ump's reaction...

1. yes
2. yes
3. no

Hoffman showed last night why it is so hard for relievers to be voted to the hall of matter how many saves during a career, voters only remember Hoffman blowing a big save (something he has made a habit of in his career, by the way). 524 saves in his career, and all anyone outside San Diego remembers is when it counts, he can't do it.

2007-10-02 15:41:50
260.   trainwreck
The Giants should do something intelligent for once and stick Freddie Lewis in center.
2007-10-02 15:44:07
261.   bobsbrother
Jon, if you want the Rams back, you can have them.
2007-10-02 15:45:11
262.   Jon Weisman
From AP:

McClelland wasn't available for comment after the game, and Montague had this to say about whether Holliday's hand swiped the plate: "I believe he did, yeah. I'm at first base."

So, he didn't have a great vantage point.

Brad Hawpe, who was on deck, did. And he was frantically motioning for Holliday to scramble to the plate before Barrett could retrieve the ball, which had arrived just as Holliday's left hand smashed into Barrett's left foot.

"Touch the plate!" Hawpe yelled.

Holliday, who lay face-down after cutting his chin, couldn't.

"I was dazed," the MVP candidate explained.

Barrett picked up the ball and tagged Holliday, then looked at the umpire.

"It looked to me like he got home plate," Padres manager Bud Black said.

2007-10-02 15:46:25
263.   Jon Weisman
261 - Only if Lawrence McCutcheon, Harold Jackson and Ron Jessie are coming with.
2007-10-02 15:47:13
264.   Howard Fox
263 and, of course, Roman Gabriel
2007-10-02 15:48:42
265.   NorCal-Dodger
The Rams were my favorite team, I was so despondent when they lost to the Steelers in the Super Bowl, and so aggravated choking away playoff games to the Cowboys and Vikings...

I have this gut feeling that the BoSox will win it all this year, they have the best pitching and good'll be such a joy watching JD celebrating..sure Ned will take delight in that.

And Holliday was out...JMHO.

2007-10-02 15:50:03
266.   D4P
it'll be such a joy watching JD celebrating

And if LuGo can't celebrate, at least Lugo will.

2007-10-02 15:50:38
267.   ishXdavid
I hate to chime in so late, but I want ANYONE but the Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels to win the series for obvious reasons. Thanks #40 for the mailing information. I think if the Dodgers sign A-Rod, he could become the city's biggest sports star eclipsing Kobe and Beckham considering the Dodgers are much closer to a championship than the Lakers. A-Rod says he wants to win in pinstripes, but I'd argue that bringing the Blue back to glory would be a bigger achievement than hanging #27 up in the Bronx. LA is a celebrity-driven city where we put our stars on the front page instead of the back page.
2007-10-02 15:51:36
268.   Howard Fox
265 as if JD will play a big part...

and I am picking the Rockies over the D'backs in the NL...and the Indians over the Red Sox in the AL...and the Rockies winning it all...

2007-10-02 15:53:33
269.   dzzrtRatt
262 I'm surprise we haven't seen people get killed or paralyzed in plays at the plate. There are few plays in football as violent as a home plate collision.

251 The Angels have a kind of hex over the Yankees. They do not have any such hex over the Red Sox-in fact, it's the opposite. I would love it if the Angels could shut those Boston fans right up. But I'm not counting on it. Boston is really, really good this year. I'd pick the Angels over NY or Cleveland, but this series scares me. (I'm an Angel fan, trying not to be insufferable.)

2007-10-02 15:53:37
270.   LogikReader
Dumb question: When writing a paper letter to the Dodgers, is it better to type it on the computer or hand write it on regular paper?
2007-10-02 15:58:10
271.   Howard Fox
270 paper letter? what is that?
2007-10-02 15:58:45
272.   Bob Timmermann
Handwritten letters go into the "Unabomber pile" at a lot of places.
2007-10-02 15:58:54
273.   Howard Fox
269 Pete Rose...Ray Fosse...nice to meet you
2007-10-02 15:59:19
274.   NorCal-Dodger
268 Walking and striking out looking is part of the game...and so is getting hurt on a routine fly ball, this will ensure that Ellsbury will play and JD will sit for the remainder of the playoffs, thus JD's contribution to the teams' success...sitting on the pine.
2007-10-02 15:59:31
275.   dzzrtRatt
270 Whatever makes you look wealthier. If your penmanship is such that it makes you look like the graduate of an elite prep school, I'd go the handwritten route. If you're handwriting is like mine, then I'd say type it.
2007-10-02 16:00:00
276.   bigcpa
254 Because he is a CF than can hit 40 more HR than our current CF. Why don't you want him?
2007-10-02 16:00:16
277.   Jon Weisman
I've heard that cutting individual letters from different magazines and newspapers and pasting them together in a whimsical "collage" style has a profound effect.

Seriously, I would recommend typing, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it either way.

2007-10-02 16:00:28
278.   bhsportsguy
272 That is true.
2007-10-02 16:00:33
279.   ishXdavid
Well, after the way the season ended I think a handwritten paper on toilet paper would get the point across.
2007-10-02 16:01:45
280.   Howard Fox
276 I'd take him, but with Coletti it means only one of Kemp or Ethier or Young would play
2007-10-02 16:02:24
281.   silverwidow
Competition? Why would we want Andruw Jones?

Because our CF isn't very good. Short and sweet.

2007-10-02 16:03:12
282.   ishXdavid
Sorry to bother you guys... but how you post a comment with the hyperlink to a previous comment you are referencing?
2007-10-02 16:03:40
283.   Howard Fox
281 you are correct, he is short and sweet...

saw the bit on Diamondvision Saturday night about favorite foods of the Dodgers...Pierre was a I like him

2007-10-02 16:04:50
284.   LogikReader
272 275 277

Awesome. The Campaign for A-Rod has officially begun!

I have three stamps... so I might write some follow up notes just before Veterans Day.

2007-10-02 16:05:56
285.   bhsportsguy
282 put [ ] around the number you want to link to.
2007-10-02 16:07:58
286.   LogikReader
I'll formulate a request to the Dodgers, but I'll need to wait until it is official that A-Rod is opting out.

Too much could happen between now and then.

2007-10-02 16:10:06
287.   Andrew Shimmin
My first Bob sighting on the SABR-l. And he's ripping Scioscia!

Well, not ripping, but cataloging his faults, without singing his praises, like an historical Ken Gurnick. What about all the times Scioscia didn't get called for obstruction, Bob? Huh? What about them?

2007-10-02 16:14:06
288.   dzzrtRatt
280 Well, if we had Jones, Kemp would clearly be the third outfielder, and either Ethier or Young would be traded, probably the former. The other would be the fourth OF.

We're stuck with Pierre. If we trade him, he can demand another trade at the end of his contract, which means he has even less value. Besides, Colletti thinks he's a table setter, a spark plug, a disrupter of pitching rhythms, a role model, a great "clubhouse guy," a great "character guy," you name it. The role Nomar played in this season's ad campaign will be filled in part by Juan Pierre. And I guarantee the PR department will use Pierre as the face of the franchise for all the offseason charitable and community events. He's a two-fer: Player and mascot.

2007-10-02 16:15:02
289.   blue22
the ump made that call about as quickly as he made all his ball and strike calls all evening

I was always under the impression that the ump (seems there are a few that give those delayed calls) gave a verbal call right away before eventually getting around to giving his hand signal.

281 - But that just means our leftfielder is now no good. I think the real question is: is Andruw Jones notably better than Andre Ethier and whatever we get in return for Andre Ethier?

2007-10-02 16:17:23
290.   Howard Fox
289 if you watched the game, throughout...both catchers hesitated after close strikes or balls before tossing the ball back to the mound...the ump was just slow
2007-10-02 16:18:43
291.   Howard Fox
but call or no call, one of the great and one of the most exciting games I have ever seen
2007-10-02 16:19:40
292.   Andrew Shimmin
We're stuck with Pierre. If we trade him, he can demand another trade at the end of his contract

I think the new CBA removed the provision about demanding a trade after the first year of playing with the team a player's traded to. So, it's just his contract and his not being good at baseball that limit his value.

2007-10-02 16:20:01
293.   bhsportsguy
288 Just to be clear, per the 2006 CBA, players traded in the middle of a multi-year contract no longer have the right to demand a trade.

Players who currently hold that right from the last CBA (signed their contract prior to the 2006 season) are grandfathered in and can still demand a trade.

No Dodger that qualifies under that provision.

2007-10-02 16:20:22
294.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Jon, how many DT commenters (is that the right term?) do we have? How fast is that number growing?
2007-10-02 16:20:29
295.   Howard Fox
I would bet Coletti isn't the only GM out there who thinks Pierre is valuable
2007-10-02 16:20:52
296.   blue22
290 - Well, that would be frustrating then. But I guess he has one of the better strike zones around, so maybe it's a good enough tradeoff as a player - slow and accurate is better than quick but all over the place.
2007-10-02 16:22:19
297.   Daniel Zappala
If Bob's brother says LA can have the Rams back, I'm all for it. But only if we get a new owner.
2007-10-02 16:22:42
298.   Howard Fox
296 yes, but if he has one of the better strike zones, then there must be alot of lousy umpires out there...he was really good side to side, but I am not sure he knows where the knee is on human anatomy
2007-10-02 16:22:59
299.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
For all this controversy, I love that there is no instant replay in baseball. I just think it adds a lot to the game (as evidenced by this extended conversation). It may feel like your team is always getting screwed by bad calls, but I bet in the end it evens out.
2007-10-02 16:23:07
300.   wronghanded
289 Yes he is, if for nothing more than displacing Pierre in left, you also have to figure that we could shop Ethier and Young for a promising young pitcher. With Jones, Hunter or Rowand in CF our defense would improve nominally.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-10-02 16:23:33
301.   blue22
295 - If Ned did indeed blow every other offer out of the water for Pierre last offseason, why would any GM want him at this price now? I guess if the current batch of FA CFers all get $20M deals, Pierre could look like a bargain. But that would most likely mean Ned has given a whopper of a deal to Rowand, Hunter, or Andruw. I'm not sure that's helping matters.
2007-10-02 16:25:17
302.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Jon, is it too late to order a T-shirt? If so, when does the store re-open?
2007-10-02 16:26:55
303.   bigcpa
295 This is what I'm banking on. Even if Colletti loves Pierre, he has to know Andruw Jones is more valuable. If there were premier corner OF's on the market then he could try to upgrade Ethier. Plus I'm afraid the Padres or Rockies will smell a value and swoop in on Jones for 85% of whatever Hunter gets.
2007-10-02 16:27:37
304.   trainwreck
Yeah, we are not getting rid of Pierre so we would paying a ton to replace Ethier, who is very cheap.

Plus, I do not expect Jones to hit 40 home runs again, unless he goes to a big hitters' park.

2007-10-02 16:29:22
305.   Jon Weisman
294 - I don't really have a way of counting individual commenters.

302 - If I weren't so busy at work and slow on e-mail, we'd be very close to starting the second run. But I do plan to do it as soon as I get my act together.

2007-10-02 16:30:34
306.   Jim Hitchcock
294 Everybody sound off. 1!
2007-10-02 16:30:34
307.   Howard Fox
I don't see us getting any of the CF's available...the rationale will be we already have a CF, we are sticking with the youth program, whatever...the four OF we have now will be the four we have in 2008
2007-10-02 16:31:46
308.   bhsportsguy
Lots of money will be not be on the Angels ALDS roster as Bartolo Colon and Gary Mathews, Jr. are both off the final roster for this round of the playoffs.
2007-10-02 16:31:49
309.   fanerman
304 Yeah, somehow I think getting rid of Pierre is less likely than acquiring A-Rod. If we get Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones (neither being my favorite idea), I imagine JP goes to left field, making him even less valuable on offense, though perhaps hiding his defensive inefficiencies better.
2007-10-02 16:33:29
310.   Howard Fox
further, we will make a giant run at ARod and come up just short, oh so close, I really thought we had him close...
2007-10-02 16:33:44
311.   trainwreck
Jones was really atrocious this year. The fact that he is a pull hitter only, makes me very worried about the fact that he has lost a step. He never had a great eye at the plate, so if he cannot catch up to pitches, then he is going to be terrible.

I think he is a bad signing for any team, unless he comes cheap.

2007-10-02 16:34:56
312.   Humma Kavula
This meeting of the A-Rod Or Nobody Society (ARONS) will now come to order.
2007-10-02 16:35:09
313.   Howard Fox
311 you are now it is definite that Coletti will sign him
2007-10-02 16:35:43
314.   blue22
307 - I think I prefer that plan anyway. Trading Ethier after signing one of the 4 CFer's means Ned is getting hosed on a deal. No Ian Snell's are coming in return, regardless of how valuable we think Ethier is.

Pierre doesn't make so much that he's not eventually benchable, but I get nervous thinking about 5+ year/$75M-100M+ deals to any one of the 30+ year old centerfielders. LA may be better next year, but I think it sets them back down the road. It also ends any ARod talk, as much of a reach as that would be.

2007-10-02 16:35:51
315.   dzzrtRatt
Who knows what Colletti will do? One thing you have to give him, he's a master of surprise. I don't think anyone here or in the press has a line on his thinking. Too many of his moves have come without much or any advance press leaks.
2007-10-02 16:37:18
316.   Howard Fox
315 or, apparently, a rationale for them
2007-10-02 16:37:53
317.   blue22
311 - Andruw had a .253 BABIP last year, 2nd lowest in the NL. It's flat out hard to have a BABIP lower than .290. He's due for a big turnaround.
2007-10-02 16:39:30
318.   trainwreck
The Betemit for Proctor deal, everyone knew about.

Going after Schmidt was known. Reports we were after Pierre, we just all wanted to ignore it. And everyone knew he was going to get Maddux.

I think it is getting easier to predict or find out what Ned is going to do.

2007-10-02 16:41:40
319.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I'm in the Bonds or Nobody Club (BONC). I think he's far and away the better value than A-Rod.
2007-10-02 16:41:45
320.   wronghanded
I think its a forgone conclusion that A-Rod resigns with the Spankees. If we can find a way to sign one of the 3 big CFs to a shorter term contract, I'm all for it. Our team is still basically built on strong starting pitching (at least at the front end) and regardless of how bad many think that Jones and Hunter are, they will give us better run production than Ethier and simultaneously stop the track meet that occurs around the bases once a ball is hit to CF.
2007-10-02 16:42:39
321.   trainwreck
Just how big?

He had a .311 OBP and a .413 Slug%.

2007-10-02 16:42:45
322.   Bluebleeder87
the thing that bugs me is that there doesn't seem to be a buzz from management on a "mega star deal" (A-Rod) I agree with a lot of DT'ers in that I think Ned will sign A. Jones & that's about it. Maybe things will change come Dec. & we'll start hearing rumors about A-Rod coming to L.A. but I doubt Ned pulls the trigger though, I hope I'm wrong.

Ps I secretly really like Andruw Jones glove though. But that's about it, he had a horrible year.

2007-10-02 16:44:11
323.   Howard Fox
everyone is assuming one of the 3 CFs would displace Pierre...I am not so sure...Little thinks Pierre looks cute out there in CF in his oversized uniform and cap
2007-10-02 16:44:57
324.   trainwreck
Ned loves Pierre, he is not going to be displaced. We benched every vet, but him.
2007-10-02 16:46:17
325.   fanerman
312 Present.

ARONS is just the unofficial name for Dodger Thoughts, right? We can conduct the DT census through this.

2007-10-02 16:46:47
326.   bhsportsguy
324 His performance improved in August and September, who would you bench him for during that time period.
2007-10-02 16:47:19
327.   bobsbrother
Sorry, the Rams come with Georgia. Though there are rumblings here that the Rams may soon be looking to relocate because they're no longer selling out every game.

The typing vs. handwriting discussion made me wonder, have computers rendered the old-fashioned ransom note obsolete? If so, it's just one more way modern technology is spoiling things.

2007-10-02 16:47:32
328.   trainwreck
I am just arguing why we won't sign Andruw Jones.
2007-10-02 16:47:50
329.   trainwreck
Or any center fielder for that matter.
2007-10-02 16:47:58
330.   blue22
321 - The .311 OBP doesn't look too bad on top of a .222 BA. That SLG% is weird. His homeruns were really down.

I guess my stance is that I would take him out of Andruw, Torii or Rowand, because there's the biggest opportunity for a rebound and thus some value. But I really don't want any of them.

2007-10-02 16:49:03
331.   Howard Fox
I've been saying all along that I preferred Pierre to Furcal at the top of the lineup...

I'd much prefer Pierre in CF, promote Hu to SS and shop Furcal, who is entering the last year of his contract, maybe get something for him

2007-10-02 16:49:37
332.   Humma Kavula
325 The first rule of ARONS is... always talk about ARONS.
2007-10-02 16:50:03
333.   fanerman
331 By "prefer," you mean, out of the semi-realistic options Ned might actually do, right?
2007-10-02 16:52:46
334.   trainwreck
What do we do with LaRoche if we sign A-Rod?

Move him to LF and trade Ethier?

Obviously, I would love to move Kemp to CF, but that is not happening.

2007-10-02 16:52:54
335.   Bluebleeder87
a lot of times we think these guys are robots, I for one think A. Jones will come back hungry to prove he's still a legit CF & I'm expecting him to have a huge year, if not a huge year I'll take an average Andruw Jones year ANY DAY. One more thing, this is BY FAR his worse year in 7 YEARS, I really feel he's gonna errupt in '08. I'm willing to go along for the ride if he becomes a Dodger. Like I've stated in the past I wouldn't mind A-Rod either...
2007-10-02 16:53:41
336.   Howard Fox
333 Ned isn't getting rid of or moving aside Pierre, Furcal is gone in a year, Hu will give us as much or more offensively than Furcal did this year (and besides, Vinny likes him, he really likes him)...

A healthy Furcal should be worth something in trade

2007-10-02 16:53:53
337.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Bonds is more proven than A-rod
Bonds is more veterany than A-rod
Bonds has a big helmet (like Pierre)
Bonds is a former Giant

All signs point to Ned signing Bonds over A-rod. And for once, I'm with Ned on this one (although not necessarily for the reasons stated above).

2007-10-02 16:55:08
338.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
contrast that with A-rod, who had the best year of his career this year.
2007-10-02 16:56:45
339.   trainwreck
But he is going to want a long-term deal. It is a bad idea to only think about the first or second year, when giving a big contract.
2007-10-02 16:57:03
340.   blue22
334 - What do we do with LaRoche if we sign A-Rod?

I'll say traded to Minnesota for Juan Rincon.

2007-10-02 16:57:54
341.   wronghanded
338 Exactly, A-Rod isn't even the best hitter in the game, I'd still put Pujols on top of that list. A-Rod is great but not 1/4 of our team salary great, in contrast A. Jones will now come at a relative discount due to his down year.
2007-10-02 16:58:25
342.   Daniel Zappala
You could get rid of Pierre the same way the Red Sox got rid of Mike Lowell. Whoever wants a player/prospect has to take Pierre too.
2007-10-02 16:58:59
343.   Woody
Watched from the 6th inning on last night and while it wasn't the Dodgers, it was a similar kind of torture. When Holliday misplayed Gile's fly ball to let the Padres tie, I was livid. So happy for him that he redeemed himself at the end, even with the questionable call. I feel as though the Padres loss was somehow our win. They've replaced the Giants as my most hated NL foe.

As a former Vermonter, I'm rooting for the Sox all the way, but if they can't win it, I won't be too upset as long as the Yankees don't win.

Another year older and another year without a championship. This year was particularly painful and annoying. Guess we just didn't have the talent, luck or management brains to do it. I guess I got spoiled in my youth with wins in '59,'63,'65,'81 & '88. Hope I'm not one of those 80 year olds with tears in my eyes in 2028 for the Dodgers next championship.

2007-10-02 16:59:31
344.   trainwreck
Red Sox got rid of Mike Lowell?
2007-10-02 16:59:36
345.   bigcpa
342 The Red Sox got rid of Lowell? They have a game tomorrow!
2007-10-02 17:01:08
346.   Humma Kavula
334 If the Dodgers sign A-Rod, the question of what they do with LaRoche is a beautiful problem to have.

Personally, I would package him with Ethier in an attempt to upgrade Ethier, but I don't know who might be available or for what price...

...but really, it wouldn't matter. I like LaRoche, and if we can't get the best player in baseball, I'll enjoy watching him play, but I'd rather have A-Rod any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

2007-10-02 17:01:10
347.   Howard Fox
I can't believe anyone would even care what happened to LaRoche if we got ARod
2007-10-02 17:01:51
348.   Howard Fox
and as far as the notion of ARod coming off a career year...its been a career career
2007-10-02 17:02:04
349.   Bluebleeder87
Don't get me wrong, if we could choose I'd rather have A-Rod in a heart beat but I really doubt Ned & McCourt have what it takes to sign him.
2007-10-02 17:02:19
350.   Jim Hitchcock
337 Yeah, Bonds and Kent in the same dugout, like that's gonna happen.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-10-02 17:02:38
351.   blue22
Unfortunately, 340 may happen even without ARod.
2007-10-02 17:04:07
352.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
When I daydream that I am the GM for the Dodgers, I have an imaginary sign on my imaginary wall that says, "Axiom #1 for FA signings: Don't sign a player to a long-term deal immediately following the best year of the player's career."
2007-10-02 17:04:13
353.   Bluebleeder87
A. Jones will now come at a relative discount due to his down year.

With Boras as his agent I don't think so, He's gonna spin the record player till he pleases.

2007-10-02 17:04:58
354.   trainwreck
Well I would be interested to see what we do with our best position prospect. Obviously he would not play third, so it creates some interesting possibilities.
2007-10-02 17:05:36
355.   Bob Timmermann
Have you read any posts about really long games yet?

Or found out more minutiae about events that happened in Washington?

2007-10-02 17:06:34
356.   wronghanded
Look at Pujol's career stats before proclaiming A-Rod the best in the game, a 1.040 career OPS and a "down year in 07" that yielded a line of .327 .429 .568, those are the kind of numbers that are worthy of A-Rod's potential contract.
2007-10-02 17:07:31
357.   Howard Fox
354 the possibilities are "who cares" if you can get ARod...I don't care about the LaRoche possibilities if I am preparing a lineup card with ARod's name on it
2007-10-02 17:07:45
358.   wronghanded
353 he'll still need to find takers and I don't think many will bite on the bloated Boras proposals.
2007-10-02 17:08:18
359.   Humma Kavula
You guys who are saying that the Dodgers won't or can't sign A-Rod are probably right.

The beauty of the A-Rod or Nobody plan is that if you can't/won't sign A-Rod, the plan has a reasonable alternative.

"A-Rod or nobody" isn't a dreaming fan making an empty threat. It's saying sign the best player in baseball or don't sign anybody at all. As Enders has pointed out, this club has a reasonable option at every position -- so the only way to improve the club is to overpay for one of the very very very best players in the game.

Signing something less than the best player in the game is a waste of money.

2007-10-02 17:10:25
360.   Howard Fox
359 Signing something less than the best player in the game is a waste of money

perhaps you haven't met my friend, Mr Coletti

2007-10-02 17:10:53
361.   El Lay Dave
358 A bidding war only requires two parties to bid. With the small FA crop, there will be competition for Andruw Jones and Scott Boras will reap the benefit.
2007-10-02 17:11:23
362.   Humma Kavula
356 If you can get Jon to go back and edit my posts to read "one of the best players in baseball" instead of "the best player in baseball," that's fine with me.

I think my point still stands. It's Alex Rodriguez.

2007-10-02 17:12:24
363.   bigcpa
359 The man behind the curtain of The JP Outwatch considers upgrading Pierre a waste of money?!
2007-10-02 17:13:26
364.   JimBilly4
I believe best player in the game might take into account position. How much more offense does Arod give you over a typical 3rd baseman than Pujols gives you over the typical 1st.

That being said, Pujols makes a nice candidate for #2.

2007-10-02 17:13:30
365.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I completely agree with that philosophy. I guess I just don't think we're quite to that point yet.

I'd say go another year or two making marginal improvements and then overpay for Cabrera.

2007-10-02 17:14:44
366.   Howard Fox
365 and he'll need every penny of it to pay for his food bill
2007-10-02 17:15:29
367.   wronghanded
362 Don't get me wrong, A-Rod is great, but if we pay the guy 30 mill a season, are we going to get the 05/07 A-Rod or the 04/06 A-Rod? My bet is on his numbers deflating a bit (04/06) playing the majority of his games in the NL West.
2007-10-02 17:15:31
368.   Humma Kavula
363 No. The man behind teh curtain of the OutWatch thinks it's unreasonable to believe that such a thing will happen. I am operating under the assumption that Juan Pierre isn't going anywhere and will play 162 games in center field for the Dodgers next year.

Perhaps that assumption is faulty, but if it is, that's a firing offense for Colletti. Pierre has turned in EXACTLY the season he was expected to turn in. How could he now feel that signing Pierre was a mistake?

2007-10-02 17:17:04
369.   El Lay Dave
356 The fact that ARod plays 3B - and maybe can still play SS - adds some value to help offset the batting difference between him and Pujols.

ARod is still in the upper, oh, 1% (top 7 or 8) or less of all major-league batters. It's rarified air up there.

2007-10-02 17:17:33
370.   Andrew Shimmin
355- Not yet, but I can hardly wait!
2007-10-02 17:17:58
371.   wronghanded
364 run production is run production regardless of position, plus its not like 3b (Wright, Cabrera etc) is 2b or anything.
2007-10-02 17:19:07
372.   JimBilly4
The 04/06 Arod still had a .900 OPS. That's his downside. Plus, I selfishly imagine what it would be like to have him at Dodger Stadium going after 600...700...800 HRs. Can you put a pricetag on that?

Boras will try to.

2007-10-02 17:20:06
373.   fanerman
338 341 Even if A-Rod's coming off his best year and Andruw Jones is coming off his worst, I'm more comfortable predicting A-Rod's future performance to be pretty darn good than saying Andruw's would be pretty good.

A-Rod's OPS+ is 183 this season. 4 times in his career he's OPS+'d in the 160's. He hasn't had an OPS+ lower than 133 since he was 21.

Andruw Jones has OPS+'d in the 130's exactly once, and he had to hit 51 home runs to do it. Even if he rebounds from his 88 OPS+ now, I think he'll have a hard time getting back over 130. If he's in the 120's, is he that much of an improvement over Andre Ethier (108 OPS+ for his career)? I point out Ethier because we all should know that JP isn't going anywhere. Except maybe left field.

Like lots of people have said has been said, we have a bunch of good players already. To improve, we need to add a great player. Andruw Jones isn't great.

2007-10-02 17:20:31
374.   wronghanded
372 exactly, and career HR #1 vs. #800 is equally valuable to a team.
2007-10-02 17:21:35
375.   bigcpa
368 Signing Jones and trading Pierre does not make Colletti concede a mistake. He acquired and dealt Seo, Baez and Betemit didn't he? There would be no outcry anyway. He just sells it as filling a current need (power) based on what's available this offseason.
2007-10-02 17:23:56
376.   fanerman
2004 A-Rod OPS+: 133
2005 Andruw Jones OPS+: 133

A-Rod's down is Andruw Jones's up.

2007-10-02 17:25:42
377.   Humma Kavula
375 No, it doesn't, but I do not think he can trade Pierre. If I'm wrong, more power to Colletti.

But if I'm right, then Ethier or Kemp loses his job/gets traded and either the new CF or Pierre plays LF. That is a waste.

Again, I could be wrong about Pierre's trade value... but any scenario that sees a center fielder, especially Pierre, playing left field is a disaster.

2007-10-02 17:26:09
378.   regfairfield
373 You have to consider his defense, which has declined, but is still excellent.

Is Jones plus something we trade Ethier for (Scott Baker? Joe Blanton?) more valuable than Ethier and 14 million in a dead market? (We drop enough salary next year and have enough young talent that the costs after that are near irrelevant) That's pretty much what this comes down to.

2007-10-02 17:26:33
379.   El Lay Dave
374 Only for W-L, not for the bottom line. ARod going for the HR record would set attendance records for the Dodgers - they have a big stadium - and push huge amounts of merchandise. McCourt could make a lot of dough - he has to weigh that against what ARod would cost.
2007-10-02 17:28:05
380.   JimBilly4
HRs #1 and #800 are not equally valuable to the owner of a stadium. If McCourt wants 4 million attendence, he needs Arod.

Arod is certainly overpriced, but the ARONs have noted that Ned Colletti has been spending 7-10 million dollars freely on mediocre veterans that are not clearly better than the young options at hand. If you are going to throw away 10-20 million a year, why not get the best player in the game and fill in the number one hole on your squad (sorry LaRoche, true or not, that is the perception). As a bonus history may be made in your stadium.

Of course, the ARONs may all feel foolish in 2014 when AROD bats .220 with 3 HRs, and his 40 million could have been used to keep Kershaw.

2007-10-02 17:29:44
381.   bigcpa
Ethier .295 .357 .464 5.8 RC/27, .275 EQA
Jones .263 .342 .497 5.8 RC/27, .282 EQA
2007-10-02 17:30:41
382.   regfairfield
381 Are Andruw Jones' numbers from 1997 really all that relevant to the discussion?
2007-10-02 17:31:16
383.   Humma Kavula
380 Kershaw? I know of no such pitcher. If only there were a minotaur with an arm that had to be plugged in every night -- that would be worth spending $40 million on.

Seriously, to your point: it's not either-or, or even Ethier/Orr-or. But I think you agree anyway.

OK, I gotta run -- gotta go learn about birthin' my baby. Spawn of Kavula is coming soon.

2007-10-02 17:31:18
384.   wronghanded
I guess one of my biggest concerns doesn't seem to bother many of you, Hunter or Jones would supplement 2 needs that negatively affected our team this season: improvement in run production (admittedly not as much as A-Rod), and shoring up our defense up the middle (Pierre gave up a ton of extra bases this season with his squirt gun). Its hard to quantify how negatively that affected our team this year, but I would venture to say that several more DPs would have been turned, less sac flys would have been yielded, and less FC's with RBI's would have occured. Our strength still remains to be our starting pitching and we need great up the middle defense if we want to truly have a successful team IMHO.
2007-10-02 17:34:03
385.   fanerman
382 Well, he had a higher EQA/OPS/OPS+ in 1997 than he did in 2007.
2007-10-02 17:35:49
386.   underdog
Since we're talking about Andruw, this was just a little while ago posted on, to make it all more "official":
>>According to David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Andruw Jones has priced himself out of the Braves' range and will not be returning next year. O'Brien says Scott Boras' starting point was seven years and nearly $20MM annually. {Me: Yikes!} So basically no discount at all despite Jones' terrible season. Boras would be a true magician to pull that off.

All of this just goes to confirm the sentiment from a few days ago. But don't think this frees up a ton of money for the Braves to spend on Torii Hunter. As I noted earlier, a $95MM payroll (a $7MM increase from last year) would probably just buy the Braves their current roster without Andruw or Octavio Dotel. The raises are that significant.

When it's all said and done, I still think Boras and Jones will accept a significantly discounted contract in both years and average annual value. {Me: I think so, too}<<

2007-10-02 17:37:11
387.   JimBilly4
I would trade Pierre for Hunter or Jones in a microsecond. I would also give some extra cash to make it happen.

But I am not the GM.

So the question is whether expensive Hunter or Jones is better than inexpensive Ethier, which is sadly the real option on the table. I would say on this power-starved team it is not a bad move. Especially if we have salary to burn, which probably we will because there are no real good free agent pitchers and Arod will likely sign a Yankee extension, crushing ARON groups everywhere.

2007-10-02 17:38:19
388.   jasonungar07
If Pierre starts in CF I will know the Dodgers don't care about winning. I can careless about OPS+ when my centerfielder can't throw the ball to the infield.

I think you all give Ned way to much credit. People told him Pierre was good so he belived it. He needed 90rbi and he signed Nomar. He needed a closer and traded for Baez and his 30 saves.

If McCourt, McGrady and McNed watched the season and then put JP back out in CF then they are either totally blind or they don't care. And that's on defense. Not counting his .322OBP 30 extra base hits for the year.

2007-10-02 17:38:25
389.   Jacob L
383 Awesome! Get a whistle and sweatshirt that says "coach." Honestly, I don't remember the class being of much use, other than general familiarity with what's going on, but enjoy. Congratulations.
2007-10-02 17:44:52
390.   wronghanded
jungar, its charris1010321 from ITD it seems you and I both agree on the huge, glaring defensive problems that the Dodgers are facing this offseason.
2007-10-02 17:45:15
391.   dzzrtRatt
Boras wants to be the Albert Einstein of agents. He is determined to be the agent who gets his client a big contract after a lousy walk year. That's been the one fly in his ointment -- that his clients might get injured or unlucky in the year before he shops them around. Well, Boras is sick and tired of worrying about that! He's going to prove that you can sell a guy based on what he did two or three years earlier. And he'll probably do it. There is a greater fool theory of GMs he's always managed to exploit.
2007-10-02 17:46:18
392.   jasonungar07
383 Oh yeah I just went thru all those classes down at Hoag in Newport...My baby is due in 5 weeks. Support your wife of course but yeah those classes are a bit, well..for me it was like taking a penalty kick in soccer at practice. Versus taking one in a 1-1 game in the 85th minuet. good luck to you as well!!
2007-10-02 17:49:21
393.   jasonungar07
Hey Charris what's up buddy. I'll settle for Hunter or Rowand or Kemp or Ethier or Repko. I don't care. Just not JP in center. Please....
2007-10-02 17:49:59
394.   Jacob L
393 Fine, then. JP in left. Consider it done.
2007-10-02 17:53:56
395.   D4P
Like I said yesterday: I'll be annoyed at whichever GM allows Boras to get as much money for Jones as he would have gotten had he performed well this year.
2007-10-02 17:54:50
396.   wronghanded
393 Yeah ITD has been dead lately and I like the DT logic much better. As for your post in regard to Pierre, I couldn't agree more, whether we find a true CF in our own organization or not, JP absolutely cannot play out there next year. In either scenario, I see Ethier as expendable unless he finds some wheels and patrols CF himself next year.
2007-10-02 17:57:00
397.   bhsportsguy
Just so I am clear, is the A-Rod talk going to continue between now and whenever he signs with a some team? Since it probably will, here are the key dates for everyone to keep track of and to really crank up the posts when those days come up.

1. A-Rod can opt-out of his contract 10 days after the conclusion of the 2007 season, the latest that would be is November 11, 2007.

2. Players can begin to elect to become free agents for a 15 day period after the season concludes. So if the season ends on November 1st, the period is between November 2 - 16th.

3. Free agents can begin talks with other clubs starting on the 16th day after the end of the season. So, that would be November 17th in this scenario.

4. Not really related but the last date for teams to file their reserve lists for both their minor and major league rosters is November 20, 2007. (This is in regards to the Rule V draft).

5. December 1, 2007 is the last day for teams to offer arbitration to ranked free agents to be eligible for compensation. (List usually comes out around the end of October)

6. Not really related to this topic but the Rule V draft will be held on December 6, 2007.

7. Player deadline to accept arbitration is December 7, 2007.

8. For those on Mark Hendrickson watch, the last day to tender a contract is December 12, 2007 but that decision will probably be made prior to November 20th for roster protection considerations.

If a team signs a ranked free agent prior to December 1st, the team that lost the player will get compensation.

But there will be fewer ranked free agents due to changes made in the last CBA.

So, there is nothing that can happen between now and at least the first week of November so kick back and enjoy the playoffs, the Hot Stove won't get its first logs for a few more weeks.

2007-10-02 18:04:11
398.   Bluebleeder87
I selfishly imagine what it would be like to have him at Dodger Stadium going after 600...700...800 HRs. Can you put a pricetag on that?

if that were go happen, Dodger Stadium would definitely go over 4,000,000 & the McCourts would be the envy of all owners, & McCourt would also be sporting a few WS rings. If he stays healthy it could very well happen.

2007-10-02 18:07:38
399.   JimBilly4
Yes, it would probably make sense if the Alex Rodriguez Or Nothing Society (ARONS) joined up with the Adam Dunn Is Not A Bad Option Group (ADINABOG) and wait for their player to actually become a free agent, especially as the odds may be quite against it.

In exchange it should be noted that if said player, especially the more Aroddy option, does become a free agent that nothing else will be spoken of for weeks at a time.

That is all.

2007-10-02 18:10:44
400.   Jon Weisman
397 - Thanks.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-10-02 18:12:53
401.   underdog
397 That's useful, thanks. We're in the official gnashing of teeth/dreaming of a brighter future phase at the moment, deadline: flexible.
2007-10-02 18:22:19
402.   El Lay Dave
So when does the game thread open? Oh, wait.
2007-10-02 18:24:55
403.   Bluebleeder87

you stole my thunder El Lay Dave, I was gonna say that too, but I opted not to...

2007-10-02 18:27:24
404.   underdog
402 {cry!} :-(
2007-10-02 18:28:17
405.   El Lay Dave
403 That's because you're a classy guy than I am Bluebleeder. I'm willing to stoop that low.
2007-10-02 18:31:45
406.   El Lay Dave
classy = classier
2007-10-02 18:32:26
407.   Bluebleeder87

that signing alone makes me question Ned OH SO MUCH, I mean seriously, the bad arm, the shaky defense, the little base hits etc (FOR 5 YEARS!!). hopefully he comes back this winter with an awesome signing & all will be forgiven.

2007-10-02 18:56:00
408.   bhsportsguy
400 So for Jon's sake, Hendrickson will be dealt with before Thanksgiving so he can have a nice holiday (depending on the outcome).
2007-10-02 19:46:09
409.   Daniel Zappala
I am sorely disappointed. I made a cogent comment in 342 , suggesting that the Dodgers could get rid of Pierre by insisting he be packaged in any other trade they make. I then had to leave for a few hours, I come back, and has anyone complimented me on my bright idea? Suggested a player they would be willing to part with in order to get rid of Pierre? No! All I get is some griping from trainwreck and bigcpa about comparing it to how "the Red Sox got rid of Lowell" instead of "the Marlins got rid of Lowell". So I made a mistake! My first one in probably at least a year! And you let this stop you from having a useful conversation?

I sigh with great frustration.

2007-10-02 19:47:07
410.   Daniel Zappala
And to compound it all, it's been almost an hour since someone posted. Hey, isn't the party still going on?
2007-10-02 19:49:53
411.   Bob Timmermann
bhsportsguy is going all NFL on us. It's the Rule 5 draft. Not Rule V.

He's taken Mrs. Krabappel's lectures on learning Roman numerals too much to heart.

2007-10-02 19:51:26
412.   Bob Timmermann
I was busy typing.
2007-10-02 19:52:57
413.   dzzrtRatt
410 Season's over, man. Vacuum cleaner's working the rug. Smell of Lysol. Parking lot's empty except some trash.

Sun's setting a little earlier each night.

Besides, implicit in your Pierre scenario is that we're giving up a prospect. That's like taking your prize Pekinese to weigh down the bag in which you plan to drown that noisy alley cat. To get a team to take on Pierre's contract, offering DJ Houlton ain't gonna get it done.

2007-10-02 19:53:21
414.   Daniel Zappala
Hi, Bob. Is there any punch left?
2007-10-02 19:56:09
415.   Daniel Zappala
413 How about packaging him with LaRoche (assuming we sign Arod)? What do we have to do to get rid of this guy?
2007-10-02 19:59:53
416.   Andrew Shimmin
409- It's a brilliant suggestion. The only problem is that Colletti likes Pierre. It's the same problem as last year when there weren't three ideas dumber than signing Pierre, so all Colletti had to do was not sign him. But he did. Because he likes Pierre.
2007-10-02 20:05:59
417.   El Lay Dave
416 I wonder to this day where the various front office advisors fell on the Pierre signing; that is, who was yea and who was nay. And who was involved in making it a five-year deal.
2007-10-02 20:07:00
418.   bhsportsguy
409 I don't think any deal involving Pierre is doable until after the 2009 season, then you could package him and some cash but before that no one who want's prospects also wants a 36 millions dollar in guaranteed payout along for the ride.

But again, be glad you are not Giant fan. This is in today's SF Chronicle.

San Francisco Giants GM Brian Sabean seems resigned to trading a young starter to acquire an impact hitter because of a lackluster free-agent market. He has identified a half-dozen teams with a surplus of hitters that might need pitching. The two Florida teams come to mind, and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays' Carl Crawford and Florida Marlins' Miguel Cabrera would be attractive targets.

"The price of getting an established, up-and-coming position player is usually starting pitching-plus," Sabean said. "There obviously are going to be guys who we're absolutely not going to move."

When asked if he meant Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, he said, "I would think so."

But then who is talking about, what other young pitchers do the Giants have that are worth someone the caliber of the players he is talking about.

This could also could be a message to Scott Boras, don't come peddling A-Rod up here.

2007-10-02 20:08:00
419.   El Lay Dave
I also wonder which manager/GM/team might welcome Pierre with open arms. The only one I suspect is Ozzie Guillen and maybe Kenny Williams. I mean, if they like Posednik and Erstad....
2007-10-02 20:15:39
420.   El Lay Dave
409 Maybe Sabean is alsoing trying to goad his old friend Colletti into overpaying for some deal Ned is trying to cook up. Plant the idea that Ned should consider it not unreasonable to trade, for example, some mythological creature with a literally electric arm (out of the division) along with LaRoche for someone like Crawford.
2007-10-02 20:17:39
421.   trainwreck
If Sabean trades one of them, SF fans should kill him.
2007-10-02 20:18:28
422.   MikeB
415 - Daniel - I suggested yesterday we offer Juan Pierre for Barry Zito. Trade our bad contract for theirs. We clear CF for Ethier or Kemp or Hunter? and get a healthy LH starter to boot who could thrive in Dodger Stadium. Zito's an ex-USC guy too!
2007-10-02 20:18:51
423.   Andrew Shimmin
417- I try not to wonder since, no matter what, no reliable answer will ever be given. Even if Ng wanted to play at being Mark Felt, there's no Woodward or Bernstein to be had.

419- The White Sox were the only team in baseball with lower OPS out of their CFs this year. Hey, let's all get our hopes up!

2007-10-02 20:20:28
424.   trainwreck
At least my response was formed as a question.
2007-10-02 20:20:30
425.   El Lay Dave
418 Actually, in that excerpt, only the writer says "young"; Sabean just says "starting pitching-plus (sic)*" Obviously he means Russ Ortiz.

* that's wrong isn't it? "starting" doesn't modify "pitching-plus", so it should be "starting-pitching plus"?

2007-10-02 20:20:48
426.   bhsportsguy
417 I believe this has been explained pretty much by Ned's comments at the time of the deal.

1. He did not want to go into the 2007 season with the only Andre Ethier as the sole outfielder who played any significant time.
2. He had just finished a season nursing two outfielders who started about 75-80% of the time.
3. There were no more big bats available.
4. If he doesn't sign Pierre, his market is limited to older guys with injury histories which he did not want to deal with.
5. Here is the unknown but reportedly, Pierre was close to a 4 year deal with the Giants.
6. Juan Pierre wanted an extra year to sign with LA.
7. Again, this is just guessing, but the Dodgers did not feel that either Ethier nor Kemp could play CF and there were no prospects that could fill that postiion in the near future.
8. If you sign Juan Pierre, he has a track record that is pretty consistent from year to year, you know he has played pretty much everyday and he does get hits and steals bases.

Would he had signed for less years if he could, who knows but JP wanted 5 so that is what they ended up with.

Ned is probably correct in this sense by year 3 or 4, the money part of this deal won't seem outrageous because there will be less and less free agents as teams sign their own players to extensions and the few that go out and become free agents will continue to make big money.

2007-10-02 20:21:24
427.   trainwreck
But a Gaucho first.
2007-10-02 20:22:09
428.   Andrew Shimmin
I suspect Sabean just has inflated evaluations of Sanchez's and Lowry's value. Lowry, anyway. Sanchez I kind of like, if he can stick at starting.
2007-10-02 20:24:42
429.   El Lay Dave
423 What? You can't see Plaschke and Simers in those roles? No? Okay, how about a young, seemingly earnest reporter like, oh, Diamond Leung?
2007-10-02 20:26:36
430.   MikeB
427 - Barry is a wanderer.
Zito transferred from San Diego's Grossmont High School to University of San Diego High School, a Catholic school where he earned all-league honors with an 8-4 record and 105 strikeouts in 85 innings as a senior. He then attended UC Santa Barbara where he earned Freshman All-America Honors with 123 strikeouts in 85⅓ innings. Transferring to Los Angeles Pierce College, he posted a 2.62 ERA and went 9-2 with 135 strikeouts in 103 innings, and was named to the all-state and all-conference teams.

He then transferred to USC, where he was a first-team All-America selection by USA Today Baseball Weekly, Collegiate Baseball, and Baseball America. With a 12-3 record, a 3.28 ERA, and 154 strikeouts in 113⅔ innings, Zito was named Pac-10 Pitcher of the Year.3

2007-10-02 20:28:12
431.   El Lay Dave
426 I understand the purported reasoning, but that's not my question. I wonder which advisors thought that was sound reasoning and which advisors were in favor of some different action. As Andrew points out, we'll probably never know.
2007-10-02 20:30:15
432.   Andrew Shimmin
429- Yeah, I don't know. I don't really read him, except the excerpts that get posted here. So, I shouldn't be flip about calling the entire beat reporter crew worthless. Has he given any indication that he finds Pierre to be the greatest structural problem on the team? I'm not sure it would even work, in a newspaper. It's not really news. It would have been ten months ago, but nobody in the traditional press bothered with it then, so it's been grandfathered in, and we all pretend that signing another CF, and then trading Ethier makes sense. Does anybody think this team would be worse if Pierre were dumped this off season? I know there are ways to argue that it might be, but does anybody think it would be?

426- Reasons not to sign him:

1. Juan Pierre is not very good at baseball.

You only need one if it's a good reason.

2007-10-02 20:31:03
433.   El Lay Dave
Oh yeah, I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place, I roam from town to town
And when I find myself a-fallin' for some team
I hop right into that car of mine, drive around the state
'Cause I'm a wanderer, yeah a wanderer
I roam around around around around around around
2007-10-02 20:37:12
434.   MikeB
Regarding the L.A. Rams.
My father worked for the Herald-Examiner Advertising Dept. He usually got complimentary tickets to some of the Ram games each season. So I got to see them at the Coliseum more than once up until 1975 when he left the Her-Ex for the LA Times. My memories of the Rams were greatly influenced by listening to the great Bob Kelly announce the games, and later Dick Enberg.
If you think about it, LA has been really blessed by having some of the greatest sports announcers of all time for the Rams, Dodgers, Lakers, Kings and Angels.
2007-10-02 20:44:31
435.   Daniel Zappala
422 I like it, I just don't think SF would do it.

423 I think Pierre to the White Sox would be fantastic.

424 You are absolved.

2007-10-02 20:49:35
436.   MikeB
435 - dare to dream the impossible...instead of leaving our heart in SF, let's give them Juan with love...
It is rumored the White Sox are interested in moving a pitcher for a hitter and Jon Garland could be a potential candidate for a trade.
2007-10-02 20:50:49
437.   Daniel Zappala
Pierre for Joe Crede? Crede is coming back for back surgery and has one year left on his contract, I believe. Sure he blocks LaRoche, but would it be worth it to open up CF for Andruw Jones or someone else?
2007-10-02 20:52:06
438.   Daniel Zappala
I forgot about Garland. That would be a decent trade, but would we have to throw in someone with Pierre?
2007-10-02 21:05:08
439.   trainwreck
I am trying to think of a player I would not trade Pierre for.
2007-10-02 21:05:47
440.   trainwreck
Maybe Soriano.
2007-10-02 21:07:11
441.   MC Safety
433- That was my first thought as well.
2007-10-02 21:07:35
442.   Daniel Zappala
I'm going about it the opposite way. What would some (presumably gullible) GM trade for Pierre?
2007-10-02 21:20:22
443.   dzzrtRatt
When I moved to LA at age 12, it was the Rams that really got me into feeling like this was my home. I was too busy mourning the loss of my Mets to pay attention to the Dodgers much, and I also still was a huge fans of the Jets, following them through national telecasts all the way to the Super Bowl. But in what would be an unaffordable splurge now, my Dad got Rams season tix at the Coliseum for all six of the members of my family at that time. Even my Mom would go. I still can taste those salty, juicy hot dogs and those Carnation ice cream "malts" that took forever to soften enough to get a bite out of them. I can still see how the sky glowed blue and orange at sundown and the palm trees waving in the winter wind behind the peristyle. I think we had those seats for three seasons -- all those frustrating seasons when they'd win 10 or 11 games, but someone always got the better of them, usually the Vikings.

By the time the Rams got into the Super Bowl, it was such an anti-climax. Much better and more interesting Ram teams that should've been champions had missed out, and the version that faced the Steelers was-- eh. It turned out they played the Steelers tough, sort of, for awhile, but I knew they couldn't win it. Most of my favorite players had long ago retired.

Then Rosenbloom died, Georgia took over and everything about that team seemed extremely fishy from then on. I feel about the Rams like people today must feel about the old Washington Senators. They're dead. This team in St. Louis has no connection to my team of memory. The rare occasions when I go to USC games -- that's when the memories come back. Even though I'm no Trojan fan, there is no better place to watch a football game than that old haunted palace.

2007-10-02 21:24:47
444.   ToyCannon
If Georgie Rosenbloom had only remarried Robert Blake our Rams would still be in LA.
2007-10-02 21:28:48
445.   Bob Timmermann
Which old Washington Senators? The Twins or the Rangers?
2007-10-02 21:30:56
446.   Dave G
OK. Maybe I'm totally insane. But listen: nobody dislikes Juan Pierre's game more than me. My friends constantly goad me into talking about how bad Juan Pierre is--his terrible arm and reads in CF, his empty batting average, his low OPB. I can't stand watching him at games, even. But I decided to look at the stats, and here's the thing about John Peter:

Post-All-Star Break: .308/.356/.373, 18bb/13k, 30 SB/6 CS.
(Pre-ASB, you're looking at a horrid line of .282/.311/.338.)

Yes, it's a half-season and reduced sample size. Yes, it's probably largely affected by luck (changes in BABIP? I don't know). A .729 OPS is certainly mediocre and probably just bad; we can all agree to that. But for a leadoff guy with great speed--and I'm not saying that I totally buy it, just that a case could be made--you could argue that a .308/.356/.373 line is relatively kinda-sorta satisfactory. Not great, but passable.

And so here comes Ned to look at the season stats. He'll see how Juan performed post ASB, and he'll say, hey, this is more in line with what we were looking for. I have a strong feeling that although Pierre's production for the year was probably below what Coletti expected, it wasn't so far below as to substantially change his opinion of Pierre as a player, and his second-half performance will likely lead Coletti to conclude that Pierre was simply off in the first half and his production was as expected in the second half. And based on his career stats, this is an overly optimistic, but not completely insane, conclusion to come to. So, I wouldn't expect Juan to be on the trading block this winter. Happy to hear opinions on these nutty ideas...

2007-10-02 21:34:00
447.   ToyCannon
I was such a geek over the Rams I remember spending one Sunday listening to the game on the radio and marking down every rushing yard gained by Willie Ellison on the Sunday sports page next to the Bill Hall column. Next thing I knew he was making history and all my little marking were adding up to over 220 yards.
2007-10-02 21:36:38
448.   ToyCannon
Juan Pierre has a 100% chance of playing CF or LF for the Dodgers in 2008.
2007-10-02 21:50:40
449.   underdog
I thought that Chronicle article suggested that the guy who would presumably be on the trading block would be Noah Lowry, which would make more sense to me. But i can't imagine them getting Crawford or Cabrera for Lowry unless a lot more was tossed in, or unless it was Cain or Lincecum instead.
2007-10-02 21:50:46
450.   das411
Why would the St. Louis Rams ever have played in Los Angeles?

/born in 1984

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-10-02 21:51:55
451.   dzzrtRatt
If I was going to be a Juan Pierre optimist, I would allow my mind to wander around with this thought.

When he gets a single or, uh, takes a base on balls, he is often standing on second base before the next batter's turn is over.

If there was a way to tweak slugging and OB% to:

a) give him a double for every hit or walk that in which he steals second successfully; and (And if he steals 2 bases, a triple).

b) take away the single/on base for every time he's CS.

What would his effective slugging percentage be?

(I'm not requesting anyone actually take their valuable time cranking this number. I'm just pondering whether this is an area where his stats don't show his contribution.)

2007-10-02 21:56:14
452.   Jon Weisman
451 - I've done this calculation. It doesn't really help his case much.

EQA is another way of approaching it. Still doesn't help.

2007-10-02 21:57:41
453.   Daniel Zappala
Wow. Jon and some of my fellow commenters were luckier Rams fans than I was. You had season tickets and everything? That would have been unthinkable when I was a kid. We just watched them on TV whenever we could, which is pretty much how I've always followed my favorite teams -- radio, TV, box scores. Go to games in person? Not till I was much older and better off than my parents were, could I think about buying tickets, and by then the Rams were gone.

I somehow stuck with my affliction/affection for the team even through their move to Saint Louis. It was if I had to hang in there until they won a championship. They finally did, I felt great about it, and only then did I let go. I still follow them, and no other team has taken their place, but they're no longer dear to me the way they once were, especially in the days of Eric Dickerson.

2007-10-02 21:59:51
454.   Daniel Zappala
451 As maddening as it is, we have to accept that the Dodgers employ a terrible, terrible CFer. Probably they used to employ all manner of terrible players, but we notice it more today, because we have more information available to us. It doesn't help the pain at all.
2007-10-02 22:16:56
455.   Bob Timmermann
The 1965 Dodgers won the World Series and started a center fielder with an OPS+ of 76, the same as Juan Pierre's this year.

John Roseboro turned in an OPS+ of 75 in 1965.

2007-10-02 22:22:21
456.   Jon Weisman
To try to recapture some of that football feeling, I was a charter season ticket holder for the L.A. Express.
2007-10-02 22:30:00
457.   LAT
402 March 31, 2008, 1:10 p.m. PST.
2007-10-02 22:31:06
458.   dzzrtRatt
The OBP of a good leadoff hitter should be...?

In 2007,
Jose Reyes was .354
Jimmy Rollins was .344
Dustin Pedroia was .380 !
Alfonso Soriano was .337
Eric Byrnes was .353
Grady Sizemore was .390 !
Johnny Damon was .351
Brian Giles was .361
Kaz Matsui was .342
Ichiro Suzuki was .396 !
Rafael Furcal was .333

and Juan Pierre though usually not a leadoff hitter, was .331 (and .356 in the second half).

So for what he's paid to do, he falls 60 OBP points below the premiere players, and about 20 OBP points behind the non-premiere starters for winning teams, although he achieved mediocrity in the second half.

Grim. Colletti likes what? about him.

2007-10-02 22:32:15
459.   LAT
444. Or O.J.
2007-10-02 22:40:35
460.   LAT
I went to one of the last Ram games in Anaheim. It was so boring I wanted to pluck my eyes out with one of those wooden Carnation Malt spoons that give you the chills every time you put a new one in your mouth.
2007-10-02 22:43:22
461.   underdog
So I guess the baseball groundhog saw his shadow and we'll have four more months of Juan Pierre debate?


I'm actually counting down the days 'til MHDD (Mark Hendrickson Decision Day).

2007-10-02 22:44:56
462.   Louis in SF
446 is absolutely right for all of his reasoning, JP will not be traded in 2008. I think what Ned will also take into account is the fact that when Furcal was healthy the year before, both he and Lofton together where definite catalysts to the Dodger offense, especially Furcal's homers, if he gets healty and is able to do it again in 2008 things should be better.

What I would like to see the Dodgers do is take some real risks with thier additional young players and not gurantee JP 162 games. The sad fact that never gets mentioned often enough, if when JP was really slumping in the first half, the Dodgers could have played Matt Kemp, Either and Gonzales and perhaps sprinkle in D. Young, the Dodgers has a team would have been better and probably happier. While 10 additional homers, between Gonzo, Either and Kemp probably does not get us into the playoffs it might have gotten us 3-4 more wins-with JP being guranteed so many AB's we lose out!

2007-10-02 22:49:45
463.   underdog
Via Diamond Leung, voice your opinion on what the Dodgers should do during the offseason:
2007-10-02 22:51:22
464.   Xeifrank
458. Thanks for the list. What does it look like when you add SLG% to the equation?
vr, Xei
2007-10-02 23:02:47
465.   trainwreck
It says we can vote, but I do not see where we vote.
2007-10-02 23:17:55
466.   fanerman
465 The "here" part of "vote here" is a link.
2007-10-02 23:22:33
467.   underdog
Yah, and you have to register for.. the Register, but it's free and what the heck.
2007-10-02 23:23:16
468.   underdog
Sorry, for the Press-Enterprise, I meant above. I'm very, very tired.
2007-10-03 00:24:14
469.   El Lay Dave
For those that don't feel like registering, this is the poll question:

What should the Dodgers' major offseason strategy be?

o Acquire more proven veterans even if it means trading some young talent

o Keep the focus on the talented younger players and fill in pieces around them

o Fire Grady Little and find a manager better suited to guide this team

o Keep doing what they're doing and be patient

The last choice is interesting. What it is that "they're doing" anyway?

2007-10-03 00:30:31
470.   Dodgers49
465. 463 It says we can vote, but I do not see where we vote.

The here doesn't look like a hyperlink on my computer either. But it does work. I'm going to assume that's an AOL problem until you tell me you're using something different.

2007-10-03 00:33:45
471.   El Lay Dave
470 I think that's a problem with their blog format. I use a PC/Windows at work and a Mac/OS X at home (AOL at neither) and both display that page the same as you are seeing.
2007-10-03 00:35:05
472.   Greg Brock
I missed a Rams thread. Good Lord, did I love the Rams...And then they left, fantasy football arrived (second only to bubonic plague in its destruction), Brett Favre became a gunslinger and had a lot of fun out there, and the NFL became nearly unwatchable. But I worshipped Eric Dickerson, and Flipper Anderson (a Bruin) and really believed in a talented QB named Jim. And Jackie Slater was a rock...

But every Rams conversation makes me think of Jim Healy...And I remember staying up late to hear the late night replay on Healy on radio. Dateline...The Big A...Madame Ram says...

2007-10-03 03:59:21
473.   D4P
Flipper's run-off touchdown in OT against the Giants in the playoffs that one year (1988?) is still my all-time favorite play.
2007-10-03 04:04:53
474.   D4P
Course, the Rams went on to lose to the 49ers in the NFC championship game that year something like 35-3.

That sucked.

2007-10-03 06:45:14
475.   Terry A
Sorry if this has already been asked, but...

In light of the finding that, hey, Tony Abreu really was hurt after all, could the Dodgers save themselves some heartache by paying him the salary and benefits he should've had by being DL'ed instead of optioned?

If the Dodgers made such a concession and apologized for their stupid stubbornness and/or outright density at the GM level, could/would the union un-grieve? A grievance hearing sounds like it could have nearly the level of animosity as an arbitration hearing.

2007-10-03 07:43:41
476.   Bob Timmermann
I believe that would end the grievance because his Abreu would have his money and service time.

I'm sure that the MLBPA could just withdraw the grievance. I don't think either side looks to deal with them. They're a lot of work.

2007-10-03 07:44:14
477.   ToyCannon
Since the Griddle is not running a World Series contest, we at True Blue will be if anyone is interested.

The winner will be getting a Dodger Shirt of their choice of Martin, Kemp, or Loney. This is not the fancy 150.00$ jersey, just the basic blue shirt with name and number.

2007-10-03 07:49:00
478.   D4P
I'm still waiting for my prize for predicting the 82-80 record.

I'm inhaling and exhaling at a normal rate.

2007-10-03 08:01:41
479.   PadreJeremy
Great post. I grew up a Rams fan despite being from San Diego. The 70s were the best and even the 80s were great with Dickerson and some of the playoff heroics of Jim Everett and Co. However, I cannot root for the St. Louis Rams. It just isnt the same. Ive been trying to become a Chargers fan, but just cant get into it.

As for the Padres-Rockies game. Really heartbreaking. Hoffman can be very frustrating to watch. I just wish the Padres had some of the young OF talent the Dodgers have although I think Scott Hairston will emerge. I cant believe the Dbacks let him go to a division rival, crowded OF or not.

2007-10-03 08:05:00
480.   Daniel Zappala
D4P, your crown really is in the mail this time.
2007-10-03 08:08:27
481.   Hythloday
Quick question: if you have the Gameday Audio package for regular season will you be able to listen to post-season games or do you have to buy the playoff package?
2007-10-03 08:13:13
482.   D4P
Do you have a tracking number?
2007-10-03 08:16:39
483.   Daniel Zappala
482 It's insured with LLoyd's of London.
2007-10-03 08:18:50
484.   ToyCannon
Not to be an insufferable Angel fan but my prize is in the mail:)
2007-10-03 08:19:01
485.   Bumsrap
In calculating Pierre statistics if he were to get credit for stolen bases he should also get penalized for giving up extra bases gained by opponents running on his weak throws.

Never cared to sit in the sun and deal with the glare to watch Rams games and the exciting plays resulted in me wanting to see them on instant replay and couldn't.

Much more to do in So'CAl in the winter than there is to do in Green Bay. And I love LA telling the NFL to shove it instead of caving in to stadium demands.

2007-10-03 08:21:46
486.   LogikReader

"Brett Favre became a gunslinger and had a lot of fun out there, and the NFL became nearly unwatchable."

Because of Brett Favre? Favre is one of the better quarterbacks of the last 15 years. He is a joy to watch, even if he does make the occasional dumb decision now and then. Sorry Greg, I have to take exception to that comment.

That and the fantasy football dig. I love fantasy football! Man first Scott Van Pelt and now Greg. I am disappointed at all the venom.

Of course, no matter what, I will always prefer baseball because of the intricacies of the game.

2007-10-03 08:24:42
487.   Kevin Lewis

Since I have never really followed football, what changed about the game that made it so boring?

2007-10-03 08:27:19
488.   Daniel Zappala
Football for me has always been better on TV than in person, unless you are with a group of friends at a high school or college game. Strong rooting interests and a bunch of friends make football worth watching in person.
2007-10-03 08:27:26
489.   Bumsrap
478 - Maybe you could start a Psychic Thoughts.
2007-10-03 08:29:04
490.   ToyCannon
Watching pro football live has always been boring for me, but I've been to less then 5 pro football games. I guess if I got hammerered it would enhance the experience.

I'll take the atomosphere of the college game.

2007-10-03 08:32:42
491.   Daniel Zappala
484 ToyCannon, does this mean you have tickets to the Angel playoff games? Will I see you on TV? Will you be using ThunderStix?
2007-10-03 08:33:57
492.   LogikReader
I'm with TC and Daniel. Football has all these little breaks in it, which is ideal for TV but not that great for watching in person.

I've only been to one game in person, obviously since the Rams left when I was 12. It was a game between the Rams and the Chiefs, it was very tedious, and mostly depressing.

I also went to one college game, and that experience was much better: UCLA, coming off that season where they missed the Championship game because of a loss at Miami (remember that?) playing the opener vs top ranked Alabama. Wow that was fun!

2007-10-03 08:34:23
493.   Bumsrap
Football in person is all downhill after the tailgate parties but I did enjoy the College games with my kids because they were experiencing college. We would walk around the campus as part of the outing.
2007-10-03 08:35:05
494.   D4P
I don't see how the conclusion in 491 was drawn from 484 .
2007-10-03 08:35:49
495.   Daniel Zappala
You need replays with football to understand what happened.
2007-10-03 08:36:28
496.   Bumsrap
494 - Then just how did you win the wins contest?
2007-10-03 08:38:58
497.   D4P
Oh, I get it now. TC's "prize" is not to me, but is rather his Angel tickets being mailed to him.
2007-10-03 08:39:25
498.   Daniel Zappala
Ding ding.
2007-10-03 08:40:21
499.   Daniel Zappala
But I really did send you your crown in the mail.
2007-10-03 08:47:27
500.   D4P
The regal, er, eagle, has landed.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-10-03 08:51:48
501.   ToyCannon
You are correct, Daniel is in error. I expect he is unaware of my Griddle victory which was posted for all the world to see.

No, I do not have Angel playoff tickets but I am a insufferable Angel fan.

2007-10-03 08:56:20
502.   Improbable88
Anyone hear Tim McClelland on the Dan Patrick show this morning?

He says he got the call right, and that the two replay angles can't help to disprove him. Says Barrett's foot was not grounded and that Holliday got the plate in pushing it away. Also mentioned that had Barrett hung onto the ball, Holliday would have been out.

I thought it was pretty stand-up for an umpire to go live on the air so soon after the controversy.

2007-10-03 09:04:22
503.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-10-03 09:19:17
504.   El Lay Dave
I attended my first (and only) Rams game when I was 11; it was the 1972 (one of the lackluster Tommy Prothro seasons, sandwiched between the winning teams of George Allen and Chuck Knox) home opener. The Rams still wore blue and white unis, Roman Gabriel was still the QB, Jack Snow was a SE (not a WR), Merlin Olson was still playing, and the D-Line was transitioning from the Fearsome Foursome to the Youngblood/Brooks/Dryer line. Bob Thomas subbed for Willie Ellison and ran for 144 yards; I thought he'd become a star, but Lawrence McCutcheon was a rookie on that team. Somewhere there are pictures on me wearing my blue-and-white Rams helmet. Later, I adopted the number 29 as my own, dreaming of being Harold Jackson (not Eric Dickerson!)

The playoff losses to the Cowboys and the Vikings stung me year after year. The move to St. Louis should have been unbearably painful, but Georgia and her Anaheim front office had already anesthetized me.

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