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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

2007-10-05 08:51
by Jon Weisman

I think I'm going to continue through the weekend this postseason vacation I stumbled into, especially because the game chats on the other Toaster sites are alive with flavor.

Not that I'm free from "What if?" thoughts about the Dodgers. Did anyone think of the Dodgers while watching Thursday's old vs. young, tech vs. gift basket episode of The Office?

Comments (221)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-05 08:56:29
1.   Sam DC
Enjoy the break.

Guess this thread is a good one to pass on that Joe Posnanski is back.

He blames Ted Lilly.

2007-10-05 08:57:03
2.   Humma Kavula
LATed/Endersed... all numbers refer to the last thread.

536 I have distaste for Cowherd as much as anybody.

501 I'm really kind of a putz -- and not the J.J. variety. You really shouldn't listen to anything I say. Except when I say that BB intimidates me. That's for realz.

539 and related: Regardless of my feelings in the matter, and without wanting to rehash the feud, I will say that I'm very disappointed by the turn of events in the past month. I was really, really looking forward to rooting for this team, and the fact that the kids are as good as advertised is immensely satisfying. But -- and I want to be clear that I am not blaming anyone for what's happened -- the whole situation has left a sour taste in my mouth. I still root for the kids wholeheartedly, but it would have been really great if they could have risen to the top without the kind of moral judgements on their character (whether deserved or not, and I know how I feel about that). I'm still their fan, and I feel that there's still no other way to go with the team, so really, see my earlier comment about not listening to anything I say... I don't really have a point at all, except to say that all of this has been disappointing from a fan's point of view.

2007-10-05 09:04:11
3.   LogikReader
I work in IT, so I can easily relate to the gist of Ryan's strategy. But man that guy is really showing his true colors, isn't he?

On screen jam, I posted my favorite moment of the episode, but how about Creed trying to dye his hear with printer toner? That was way funny.

And one last thing: I'm glad the Dwight/Angela relationship is over. Dwight can't be Dwight with a lady holding him down. Particularly the last two episodes... seeing them having a relationship conversation is neither funny nor enlightening.

It's early, but the second episode was right up there!

2007-10-05 09:04:43
4.   kngoworld
Did anyone think of the Dodgers while watching Thursday's old vs. young, tech vs. gift basket episode of The Office?

I did Jon.

When Creed was whispering in Michael's ear about the company slowly getting rid of the old, I immediately imagined Luis Gonzalez doing the same in the ears of Nomar and Kent while in the clubhouse.

2007-10-05 09:07:01
5.   LogikReader

Me too.

2007-10-05 09:07:42
6.   Jacob L
I also made the Dodger connection. Frankly, it made it easier view DePo as being right on merit, but also kind of a jerk.
2007-10-05 09:07:54
7.   LogikReader
"But man that guy is really showing his true colors, isn't he?"

Also applies to Luis Gonzalez.

2007-10-05 09:11:05
8.   LogikReader
Jon, could the connection be

Overpriced Veterans = Gift Baskets

Nice on the outside, but mostly useless?

2007-10-05 09:11:43
9.   Terry A
Depo: "Treat me the way you treated Dan."

Tracy: "Do I swing that way? I think there's sufficient evidence to say I do not."

2007-10-05 09:13:52
10.   El Lay Dave
7 Remember this last day of the season quote published in the LAT?

"What's been the most disappointing to me is that so many people, when things are going good, they're fine," [Grady Little] said. "But then the very minute things turn a little sour, the real person comes out. That's what disappointed me the most."

2007-10-05 09:14:52
11.   kngoworld
Creed took a much better approach then most of the Dodger veterans though. If Kent and Gonzo would have tried acting/appearing younger, maybe running faster or throwing harder or even dying the gray hairs, I believe there would have been much less tension in the clubhouse.
2007-10-05 09:26:48
12.   Kevin Lewis
game, set, match, point Scott. Game over, end of game.
2007-10-05 09:27:56
13.   Kevin Lewis
Last night was the first time I had a twinge of sadness not seeing Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier and our Chad in the postseason. It will be fun to watch next year.

New headline for this morning:

"How you like the NL West now?"

2007-10-05 09:28:22
14.   Kevin Lewis
I don't know why I wrote "our" in that sentence.
2007-10-05 09:31:47
15.   El Lay Dave
Of the 42 runs scored in the three games yesterday, 34 scored on extra-base hits.

I hope we Dodger fans see more scoring with extra-base hits next season; Kemp and Loney full-time will help.

BTW, Nomar's 2nd half number are interesting (but only over 134 PAs, 31 starts):

I doubt that he can sustain that over a whole season, but maybe there is a little hope that some power has returned. I think that LaRoche needs to be given the shot, with patience, and Nomar be infield insurance, but it might be a decent plan B.

2007-10-05 09:33:31
16.   jasonungar07
Kemp: Guess Who just got to be the best looking single guy in the office..

Nomar to Nomar while doing his pre hitting routine: Who is this old fart? Did you just stagger off the street? Out of a box or something? Who's this worthless bag of bones?

Gonzo to Kemp: look at you all grown up and no place to go. Hello Mr Sonny Crockett, I am Tubbs.

Lowe: For the record, I have never been involved with anyone at work, in any capacity

Kent: I am telling you, this kid is the grim reaper.

Grady: We are throwing out the entire playbook, we are starting from scratch.

Wells: I am 30. Well in November i'll be 30

Hillenbran to Loney: Dude you are so money you don't even know it. But you do.

Ned: Everyone always wants new things. Everybody likes new inventions, new technology. People will never be replaced by machines. In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me, the choice is easy.

Kemp: I'm not saying I had a meteoric rise. But I did. And if they knew how much I was paying for my haircut now, they wouldn't be giving me a noogie. It was $200.

2007-10-05 09:34:58
17.   underdog
Because he's ours and no one else's!

Man, I thought the same thing watching The Office, too, except I felt more sympathy for the "older" office workers on the show than I have for the veterans on the Dodgers. But the Old School vs New School thing was hard not to relate to the Dodgers.

2007-10-05 09:36:53
18.   Kevin Lewis
I really was rooting for Michael's gift baskets to pan out. Creed is hilarious.
2007-10-05 09:50:04
19.   adamclyde
I didn't think about it then, but michael's disdain for computers certainly reminds me of a few LA Times columnists' disdain for computers or stats or anything else in the game of baseball besides "gut".

I would pay a lot of money to see plaschke drive into a lake.

2007-10-05 09:55:24
20.   Humma Kavula
19 I would pay a lot of money to see plaschke drive into a lake.

With a stone in his mouth?

My favorite book!

Who killed Boy Plaschke? Spoiler, sort of:

"He was killed by the usual cabal: by himself, first of all; by the blogger he knew; by the blogger he did not know; by the former GM who granted his inmost wish; and by the inevitable fifth, keeper of his conscience and keeper of the stone."

2007-10-05 09:58:22
21.   Humma Kavula
20 When we did not know the sex of Spawn of Kavula, Mrs. Kavula and I were considering boys names. One possibility was Dunstan, after the main character in that book. Such is our respect and love for it. I try to read it once a year.
2007-10-05 09:59:30
22.   briano
I am proud and honored to be a very small part of such a blog as DT and to know that you guys are such Office fans just makes me more proud. I think Kevin Kennedy is an Office fan too. It all really works out perfectly. Go Creed!
2007-10-05 10:07:00
23.   Ricardo
Hey guys, check this video: . I love this team!
2007-10-05 10:17:27
24.   LogikReader
Tracy is out as Pirates manager

2007-10-05 10:21:12
25.   regfairfield
The Office is on my DVR right now.

I don't think I can be here today.

2007-10-05 10:28:39
26.   Bob Timmermann
Anybody interested in going to the UCLA-Notre Dame Saturday evening? I have one extra seat.
2007-10-05 10:39:29
27.   dsfan
Poster at Ducksnorts says Santana could be coming to the Dodgers for Kemp and other young talent within the next 48 hours.
2007-10-05 10:40:08
28.   kinbote
24 i loved his recent quote about how much the team has improved over the last few years despite its poor record.

isn't that how you measure a team's performance, by its record?

2007-10-05 10:43:58
29.   Terry A
28 Well, Oliver Perez certainly improved...
2007-10-05 10:44:47
30.   Johnny Nucleo
20 Mrs. Nucleo is a big Robertson Davies fan. She read "Fifth Business" to me at night when we started dating. Now, several years later we are going through "World of Wonders" (We skipped The Manticore and all the Jungian mumbo-jumbo). We are both big fans of Dunny, having also grown up in small-town Ontario. It would be a fine name for your spawn.
2007-10-05 10:46:10
31.   Bob Timmermann
Can you make a trade like that during the playoffs? I thought MLB frowned on such matters.
2007-10-05 10:47:20
32.   El Lay Dave
31 I think they do. And we know Frank McCourt doesn't like to ruffle Bud Selig's feathers.
2007-10-05 10:48:05
33.   bhsportsguy
27 I really should stop posting there.
2007-10-05 10:50:01
34.   KG16
What is this "The Office" of which you all speak?

re the conversation in the last thread about why the D-backs win: I'm going to go with the obvious answer, they are a good team. They have a great pitcher leading their rotation, they have a great closer, and they hit well when they get runners on base. And yes, they play harder than other teams in that they do the little things that don't show up in the stats (running hard, backing up throws, etc)

2007-10-05 10:53:04
35.   Bob Timmermann
However, baseball rules do allow trades to be made without waivers after October 1.

So a big blockbuster trade can be made, but I just think that MLB doesn't like teams to do it while the playoffs are going on because they don't want attention drawn away from the games.

For example, if the Yankees got eliminated and then traded Robinson Cano to the Royals for Esteban German and Joel Peralta, there might be some uproar.

2007-10-05 10:53:59
36.   ToyCannon
lojix (Deployed): Why do you seem like a red sox fan?

Steven Goldman: Because you wrote "Deployed," which suggests you are an honored member of our armed forces, I will refrain from answering with appropriate venom. For some people, just because I can be critical of the Yankees means I don't like the Yankees. That's a really blinkered view of life... G.K. Chesterton once wrote, "Saying, 'My country, right or wrong' is like saying, 'My mother, drunk or sober.'" I feel the same way about the Yankees, the books I read, the music I like, our country, my friends, my family, and myself. Blind affection means loving an imaginarily perfect construction of something, not the thing itself. We owe it to the people and things we care about to regard them honestly. We owe it to ourselves, because when we turn off our ability to think critically, that's where we get nasty surprises.

2007-10-05 10:54:19
37.   JoeyP

This is an unconfirmed rumor from a source who I trust, but I don't vouch for the accuracy.

The Dodgers have 48 hours to reach a deal with Johan Santana. They're willing to give up Kemp plus other players. Santana's current contract demands are in the neighborhood of 8 years, 200+ million.

Thats quite a bit of money for Santana. Not only the money, but giving up young players to get him. I dont think he's worth that much.

2007-10-05 10:58:56
38.   ToyCannon
No griddle report on Tracy being canned?
2007-10-05 10:59:23
39.   Jacob L
26 I might be interested, Bob. Send me an e-mail.
2007-10-05 11:02:18
40.   Disabled List
Forget the $200 million, is there any pitcher who you'd be willing to make an 8-year commitment to?

I mean, 8 years??? What if Jason Repko steps on his foot next spring and he tears his ACL falling to the ground? With a pitcher, you never know when disaster could strike.

2007-10-05 11:02:23
41.   KG16
37 - I have this really strange feeling that this is going to be an implosive off season
2007-10-05 11:04:07
42.   El Lay Dave
37 The pertinent question is, what does anyone know about commenter "Tom Waits", other than the taste his handle conveys?
2007-10-05 11:04:20
43.   Terry A
"This is an unconfirmed rumor from a source who I trust, but I don't vouch for the accuracy."

I think that sentence says it all.

2007-10-05 11:04:25
44.   Reiichi
How painful will it be to see next season 'over' before the current season is officially over.
2007-10-05 11:05:58
45.   Jacob L
What's more surprising? Plaschke posting at Ducksnorts, or using the name Tom Waits?
2007-10-05 11:07:05
46.   dsfan
If Ned made no deals whatsoever this offseason, would that be such an awful thing? Might beat the alternative.
2007-10-05 11:08:25
47.   RIYank
Wow, that's a lot of money (for Santana). But maybe worth it -- the Red Sox are spending a total (posting + salary) of $100M for five years of a much worse pitcher, and Santana ought to still be very strong even in eight years. It's a gamble.

Trading much more than Kemp, though, that might be a mistake. And is the market for Santana really that high? I wonder.

2007-10-05 11:08:35
48.   LogikReader
That really sounds like an outrageous trade. That is all.
2007-10-05 11:09:44
49.   kinbote
matt kemp traded for a swordfishtrombone?

seriously, the only mega-trade i could tolerate this offseason would be one for miguel cabrera. even then, we'd likely have to overpay.

2007-10-05 11:12:01
50.   Kevin Lewis

Oh, please No! Not for that many years. I'd rather see 7/220 for AROD.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-05 11:12:45
51.   MC Safety
Please not Kemp.
2007-10-05 11:14:18
52.   RIYank
KG16, about the D-Backs:
I'm willing to believe that they hit well with RISP, run hard, back up throws. And maybe those things don't show up in some stats. But they had better show up in runs scored or runs against. Right? And the D-Backs are just not very good at scoring runs (worse, for example, than the Dodgers). And they are not very good at stopping runs from being scored (worse, for example, than the Dodgers). So even though I hardly watched them at all this year, I am pretty confident in judging them to be not very good.

And yet, there they are.

2007-10-05 11:16:53
53.   dsfan
When Plaschke wrote about the Dodgers being inclined to trade Kemp this offseason, Ned, who was given a chance to repsond, should have said something like, "We love Matt Kemp. We think he can be a great player. He's a former basketball player who just hit .340 with power at age 22 and should be a good defender at both corner OF spots and could be a passable CF. That's phenomenal. Matt Kemp is part of our future. We have no desire to trade him. We think that if he works hard, he can be a superstar."

But Ned didn't. He just waffled and left the impression he is down on Kemp. I don't get it. I thought Ned used to be a PR guy with the Cubs. Is he trying to send Kemp a message? If so, why use Plaschke to do it? Is he sounding the bell for a Kemp auction? The whole column bugged me, not becuase of the author as much as Ned's response and what he didn't say.

2007-10-05 11:18:32
54.   Zak
Anybody here listen to ESPN Baseball Today podcast this morning? Peter Pasquarelli had a short conversation with Dan O'Dowd, and it's amazing how unlike Colletti he sounds. I don't know him well enough, and I'm sure you can look back and find questionable decisions he's made, but I loved what he was saying this morning.

To paraphrase, he talked about how much he believed hin letting the kids in the system take up roster spots when there was a need as opposed to going out and getting veterans for that role. He gave examples of how he patched his pitching needs and a LH pinch hitter off the bench, which made me think of Sweeney. Not that Sweeney was a terrible mistake or anything like that, just that it shows how differently Colletti thinks compared to teams that are acutally winning this year. Also, he added that he doesn't think the Rox will make any big acquisition this off season and will try and keep as much of this team together as possible.

2007-10-05 11:18:47
55.   sporky
53 - I agree. Even Grady sang Matt's praises, and I was waiting for Ned to do more of the same.

I'm still waiting.

2007-10-05 11:21:56
56.   Disabled List
53 I still think that column was a leak from Ned. Why not use Plaschke? He's the most widely read and respected [cough] sports voice in Los Angeles.

The most important thing that column accomplished was softening the ground for Kemp's eventual trade. Now the public is prepared. It wasn't a coincidence that the Kemp-for-Santana rumors broke the same day.

2007-10-05 11:23:16
57.   Zak
Tracy's record the last three years... 206-280. I hope he bounces back somewhere, but I think he might be done as a big league manager. I can see him either becoming a bench coach or some minor league coach. There was a time when I liked him for a little bit, but then I got to know him. He sure did some stuff that rubbed me the wrong way.. not just in game decisions, but stuff like wearing LoDuca's number after LoDuca left. I thought that more was such an insult to your first year GM. His whole Jason Phillips man-crush. Very puzzling!!
2007-10-05 11:25:08
58.   Jacob L
54 Going just by vague recollection, I'd say that O'Dowd has learned a few lessons along the way to get to his current point of view. The Rockies have simply had no success bringing in higher priced veteran talent, and so developing players and believing them was almost a last resort. Its possible that Ned will learn this, too, but he just spent so much time in SF where bringing in the older guys seemed to work so well; setting aside that they were building around the best single player in the game.
2007-10-05 11:30:09
59.   Terry A
58 - Lessons named Denny Neagle and Mike Hampton, for starters.

That O'Dowd is still around to enjoy this season says more about his bosses than it does O'Dowd himself. The man screwed up in countless ways yet lived to tell about it.

2007-10-05 11:32:41
60.   LogikReader

Does it say more about O'Dowd's bosses in a good way or a bad way?

2007-10-05 11:32:56
61.   Zak
58 Yeah, I'm just worried that because of the prolonged exposure to that line of thinking, it may never happen. Plus from what little I know of both O'Dowd and Colletti, I'd say Colletti is more stubborn in his way of thinking, whether it works or not. I see his reaction to this past season and I kinda cringe. For example, the Schmidt injury where all due diligence was done and no one could have seen the injury coming. I mean, really?!
2007-10-05 11:33:21
62.   sporky
56 - I wonder if Ned leaked the 'rumor' to Plaschke, with no intention of trading Kemp. Ned probably had a vague idea that people would be supremely pissed off at the idea of trading Kemp+Kershaw+?. Then by doing (little to) nothing during the off season, and assuming he fails to sign A-Rod, he wouldn't be blasted for twiddling his thumbs for five months. After all, Kemp is still a Dodger.

/pure speculation

2007-10-05 11:35:13
63.   Jacob L
Oh, and if Ned is thinking about acquiring pitching from Minnesota, perhaps he can get Liriano, Nathan, and Bonser for a middle of the road catcher (Lieberthal?)
2007-10-05 11:35:48
64.   regfairfield
62 I'd say that keeping Kemp doesn't mean all that much to the average Dodger fan. They saw a fourth place finish, they want changes. Matt Kemp is a cancer, he won't help.

60 I'd say bad. Tthe reason the Rockies stunk for this long is because until a couple years ago, the only good thing you could say about O'Dowd is that he was good at getting rid of the terrible contracts they signed.

2007-10-05 11:38:24
65.   Jon Weisman
64 - I don't know. I've never seen such agreement that the kids should have played among people who usually disagree about what the Dodgers should do. I think the Blame Kemp crowd is a distinct minority.
2007-10-05 11:39:22
66.   old dodger fan
How many really good young players has Colletti traded away or let go without much of a fight?
Bradley-But we got Ethier for him.
Navarro-But we had Martin waiting in the wings.
Gagne-But he wasn't so good anymore.
Who else?
2007-10-05 11:39:48
67.   El Lay Dave
Santana's agent is the other party that benefits from a rumor like this. He could be planting the contract numbers to get it into the collect consciousness of the GMs. Boras plays this game too; are there well-circulated, speculative ARod numbers out there, like $30 million?
2007-10-05 11:41:45
68.   SG6
55 - From Oct 1 LA Times:

Colletti said "two or three" of the young players were close to becoming that middle-of-the-lineup hitter. He called the play of Loney "remarkable," adding that Kemp "is not too far behind," that Russell Martin "really developed this past year" and that Andre Ethier "is a solid player in this league."

I'd say "not too far behind" from "remarkable" is an endorsement of Kemp.

2007-10-05 11:42:03
69.   regfairfield
66 Joel Guzman was a higher ranked prospect than Hanley Ramirez. We traded him for a guy that we knew was hurt at a position we already filled.

Edwin Jackson - Traded for a "proven closer" when he still had options left.

Wilson Betemit - Traded for a middle reliever.

2007-10-05 11:43:21
70.   sporky
68 - Thanks!
2007-10-05 11:44:33
71.   Humma Kavula
30 Any woman who will read Robertson Davies to you is a keeper.

I share your opinion of The Manticore, but that book is Mrs. Kavula's mom's favorite of the Deptford trilogy. I see her point, but disagree.

Try the Cornish trilogy, too. I don't like it as much as Deptford, but it's very funny, in that extremely dry, odd Robertson Davies way.

2007-10-05 11:45:25
72.   regfairfield
65 You give Dodger fans far more credit than I do. If Kemp has any missteps at all next year, they'll want him gone.

The idea that what Plaschke says is law is rooted firmly in truth, I think.

2007-10-05 11:45:50
73.   Humma Kavula
This is a rumor on a Padres blog. Has it been repeated elsewhere?
2007-10-05 11:46:09
74.   sporky
Hmm. Is the average Dodger fan comparable to the people who call in to Dodger Talk and post on ItD?
2007-10-05 11:46:26
75.   bhsportsguy
52 They are really good at winning all their close games the D-Backs were 60-36 in games decided by 3 runs or less.

Here are the records for the rest of the playoff teams in games decided by 3 runs or less.

Angels 56-40
Indians 59-45
Phillies 51-44.
Red Sox 49-43
Rockies 50-47
Cubs 45-48
Yankees 36-42

Also, Arizona just had some games where they got blown out, they played 9 games where the run differential was 9 runs or more and they were 2-7 in those games with a negative 56 runs in those games.

2007-10-05 11:47:25
76.   BlueCrew Bruin
64 Really a sad reality about the average Dodger fan. But I guess that could probably be said about the average fan of any team.

All I know is I'll be seriously bummed if Kemp is dealt. Winning is great, of course, but it's just a little bit sweeter when it's done with players that have grown up (professionally speaking) as Dodgers.

2007-10-05 11:57:57
77.   RIYank
75 Well, yeah. When a team's record is much, much better than its Pythagorean record, then it won a lot of close games.

But most people think winning close games is lucky. There's having a great closer, that can add a few. But mainly luck. I think so.

2007-10-05 12:00:53
78.   Bob Timmermann
I worry a lot about this Amendment to the Constitution.

I'm glad someone is looking out for it:

2007-10-05 12:06:27
79.   Greg Brock
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but Jim Tracy has been fired.
2007-10-05 12:17:52
80.   still bevens
another victory for steve, r.i.p.
2007-10-05 12:29:36
81.   Bob Timmermann
Japanese workers face crackdown for making Wikipedia entries while at work:

"The six civil servants together made 408 entries on the popular Web site encyclopedia from ministry computers since 2003, an official said Friday.

One of the six focused solely on Gundam — the popular, long-running animated series about giant robots — to which he contributed 260 times. The series has spun off intricate toy robots popular among schoolchildren as well as adults known as "otaku" nerds.

"The Agriculture Ministry is not in charge of Gundam," said ministry official Tsutomu Shimomura."

2007-10-05 12:35:22
82.   Terry A
"The Agriculture Ministry is not in charge of Gundam," said ministry official Tsutomu Shimomura."

They'd better be.

2007-10-05 12:37:06
83.   Jon Weisman
72 - I'm just reporting what I've observed. The casual Dodger fan doesn't have an opinion on Kemp. The ones who complain - the ones who would actually take the time to write McCourt, call talkradio or post on message boards - the majority has wanted Kemp to play.

That's not to deny Plaschke has a voice, but the response to Plaschke's column about trading Kemp was as negative as I've seen outside of DT.

2007-10-05 12:46:01
84.   underdog
I'd say that posting on the Padres' blog was a success. It's gotten people here worried, even though it basically has no merit in fact at this point. I think "the piano has been drinking."

No way a trade is going down during the playoffs, no way.

2007-10-05 12:51:25
85.   sporky
84 - It really doesn't take much to alarm Dodger fans. Sad, no?

"Plaschke is thinking of writing a column! Hide the children!"

2007-10-05 12:53:09
86.   underdog
I do find Plaschke alarming, but I guess that's part of his modus operandi.
2007-10-05 12:54:28
87.   ToyCannon
Herd Mentality, someone ought to write a saga about it. Throw in a mule and I think you might have something.
2007-10-05 12:54:30
88.   Bob Timmermann
"Roberto Hernandez is warming up! Hide the children!"

"Juan Pierre is trying to throw out a runner going from first to third! Hide the children!"

2007-10-05 12:57:17
89.   underdog
88 Stop it. My stomach is already bugging me enough today.
2007-10-05 12:58:06
90.   sporky
88 - You're making me queasy
2007-10-05 12:58:38
91.   sporky
89 - Or that. (presses F5)
2007-10-05 13:03:54
92.   Fallout
69 regfairfield
Wilson Betemit - Traded for a middle reliever.

How wasn't that a good trade?

2007-10-05 13:14:06
93.   underdog
Actually, right now I think Yankees fans (okay, the two I know) kind of regret that trade, too - just at the moment. But maybe Boom Boom will do something in the playoffs.

To tell you the truth, the one trade Ned's made that I question or regret is Edwin Jackson, just because he was so young and rushed, and talented, and they didn't get much in return for him because his value was lower at the time. I really wish they'd just held on to him and had him to use this year or next.

2007-10-05 13:18:27
94.   ToyCannon
1. In AA at the time we had the best minor league relief pitcher in baseball.
2. Scott Proctor's peripherals suggested his low ERA was misleading.
3. Right after the trade both Nomar and La Roche got hurt so the team signed Shea Hillenbrand.
4. Right after the trade the team realized it no longer had a decent LH pinch hitter and traded for Mark Sweeney.
5. Until the trade the Dodgers refused to try Betemit at any other infield position other then 3rd base. Two weeks after the trade Boom Boom had played 1st, 2nd, SS, and 3rd base for a team in the playoffs.
6. Did Scott Procter help the Dodgers? I can only recall one game where he had a positive impact. Could Meloan or Hull done the same thing without the deal? Who knows.

I don't see how the trade of Betemit for Proctor can be chalked up as a good deal for the Dodgers.

2007-10-05 13:21:06
95.   Fallout
93 underdog

From the Yankee viewpoint I cannot see how they made that trade. What did they gain to help them win compared to what they lost.
Ahh, what is their weakness again? A hitter to come off the bench? I don't think so.

2007-10-05 13:23:36
96.   ToyCannon
He was out of options, what were they going to do, let him pitch with his 6.50 ERA for 25 starts before he started showing improvement?
EJ was rushed in the 1st place. I don't blame Ned for trading EJ, only for acquiring a relief pitcher for him.
2007-10-05 13:24:33
97.   ToyCannon
Actually it was. Jeter, Cano, and Arod never got a rest until Betemit arrived.
2007-10-05 13:27:47
98.   underdog
96 - So they couldn't send him back down to the minors again? Yeah, I guess I can understand it from that viewpoint. But still, they got so little in return, and I'd rather watch him work thru the kinks with the Dodgers than watch Tomko and co. But yeah, the damage was done with him well before that.
2007-10-05 13:31:38
99.   RIYank
97 Pretty much. Keep in mind that he replaced Miguel Cairo on the roster. What a relief! And Cashman also picked up Molinas to replace Wil "Its now or" Nieves, another enormous upgrade even though Jose is not exactly the second coming of Johnny Bench.
2007-10-05 13:32:25
100.   Fallout
94 ToyCannon

Your best point, #3, is a second guess.

Without Procter the bullpen would have ended up in rages. So many complained that Billingsley was used too much as it was...

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-05 13:37:57
101.   Fallout
97 ToyCannon

How much will Betemit be used during the playoffs?

2007-10-05 13:42:00
102.   dzzrtRatt
100 "In rages?"

So you're saying Colletti acquired Scott Proctor to stop the relief corps from losing their tempers?

Actually, I think the Proctor-Betemit trade worked out okay. But it's a small-gauge trade however you look at it. The last really significant trades Colletti has made were probably Izturis for Maddux and Aybar & Baez for Betemit, at the 2006 deadline, unless there's something I'm overlooking.

2007-10-05 13:45:54
103.   ToyCannon
About as much as Proctor.
2007-10-05 13:46:55
104.   ToyCannon
Yea, because Nomar getting hurt sure took the baseball world by surprise.
2007-10-05 13:47:13
105.   SG6
83 - It was refreshing to see the Times include Newhan and Shaikin articles that were very much pro-youth movement / anti-Plaschke.
2007-10-05 13:47:20
106.   sporky
103 - lol.
2007-10-05 13:49:44
107.   Fallout
"rags" Rages is what I do when reading some of these posts. Especially when someone rags on me.:)
2007-10-05 13:52:28
108.   ToyCannon
You picked the only trade I'm actually passionate about.
2007-10-05 13:54:18
109.   bhsportsguy
There is one prospect who was dealt that is making an impact in the playoffs.

His name, Franklin Gutierrez. He was the major piece in the Milton Bradley deal.

He still had one more year where he did not have to be put on the 40 man roster so Cleveland had 3 more years where they could use his options.

He only hit 31 home runs in 4 seasons in the minors for the Indians but after his callup this year, he hit 11 homers in 230+ plate appearances with an .814 OPS.

Now, was that deal a bad one? Certainly Bradley helped the team win in 2004 and was later dealt for a player who has played a lot for the last two years.

In the end, it turned out to be Gutierrez for Ethier, Franklin is a year younger, probably has a little more pop but he does strike out a lot more and they both walk about the same.

2007-10-05 13:58:55
110.   ToyCannon
No, Milton was key component of the 2004 team. It took Franklin 3 more years to make the major leagues.
Even if we didn't have Ethier for Milton I'd still do the trade again.
Franklin has more speed but I don't think he has more pop then Ethier. If given a choice I'd take our guy.
2007-10-05 14:00:23
111.   Dodgers49
10/01/2007 2:02 PM ET
GM Smith looking to Twins' 2008 season

Buck99: Bill, congratulations on your promotion. You have some big shoes to fill. There has been speculation in the media that Johan Santana may be traded. What are the chances of re-signing Santana?

Smith: We are counting on Santana to anchor our rotation in 2008. He is one of the premier pitchers in the game and with Santana and a healthy Liriano, along with Scott Baker, Boof Bonser, Kevin Slowey, Matt Garza and a healthy Glen Perkins, our pitching should be good.

2007-10-05 14:02:10
112.   kinbote
i can't believe we gave up ANYTHING for sweeney, let alone someone within a pierre's throw of actual prospectdom [travis denker].

some of colletti's moves just made no sense. we gave up on marlon anderson, then added an inferior version of marlon anderson soon afterwards. this kind of thing gets dangerous the more you do it.

2007-10-05 14:03:26
113.   jasonungar07
Yeah I dont see the Twins trading Santana at all. They will just let him walk...
2007-10-05 14:19:10
114.   El Lay Dave
113 If they are struggling midway through the season, they could trade Santana in July for a prospect package somewhat like Texas did with Teixeira. Maybe less attractive package though for a half-season rental.
2007-10-05 14:19:42
115.   Fallout
My Bonds limerick:

There was a man named Bonds,
Who acted like he was the Fonz.

He had no fear,
So, he applied the Clear.

After he rubbed some on his thigh,
It made him look like he had eaten a whole pie.

He said he felt great,
But, he was in an awful state.

The pitchers were in fear,
As Bonds came to hit with a sneer.

The feds came to investigate,
But, Bonds did not hesitate.

He proclaimed to be drug free,
So, he wouldn't cop to a plea.

The feds said, "We'll be back."
As Bonds continued to hack.

The record breaking ball was suppose to earn a star,
But it turned out to be a mar.

2007-10-05 14:24:25
116.   Humma Kavula
115 You'd best not let Score Bard see that. It's not a limerick.

I wrote this in 2005:

Quoth the ScoreBard, "I'm pleased by your crafts,
But check twice -- is your work free of gaffes?
You will please take the time
To check meter and rhyme
And you'll never just go for the laughs."

2007-10-05 14:24:36
117.   Winthrop
Jim Tracy was fired by the Pirates today. Where to next for the Jim Tracy swath of destruction tour?
2007-10-05 14:27:07
118.   jasonungar07
114 yeah that's true.
2007-10-05 14:31:32
119.   Fallout
116 Humma Kavula

I had so much to say,
with too many words to play.

2007-10-05 14:32:40
120.   Bob Timmermann
Every 50 comments there will be a mention of Jim Tracy's ouster.
2007-10-05 14:33:26
121.   sporky
120 - And Plaschke.
2007-10-05 14:34:41
122.   Humma Kavula
119 Fair enough.

From my own point of view, I find that the form of the limerick (as well as that of my own personal favorite form of nonsense, the double dactyl) forces me to consider exactly what I want to say and lead to a better, funnier, and more pleasing result.

But your constructions have their place, too.

2007-10-05 14:53:02
123.   sporky
"Trouser snake kills Cambodian man"

2007-10-05 14:59:19
124.   Fallout
122 Humma Kavula
I concede,
You are way out of my league.
If I tried to double dactyl,
My mind would begin to crackle.
2007-10-05 15:05:50
125.   ToyCannon
Don't let others stifle your creativity.
2007-10-05 15:12:45
126.   El Lay Dave
122 Isn't "double dactyl" Alfonseca's pinkies?
2007-10-05 15:14:34
127.   Bob Timmermann
Milton Bradley was not suspended for his run-in with Mike Winters. He was fined.

2007-10-05 15:14:46
128.   RIYank

Jiggety Juicety
Barry the Homer King
Sent many spheroids out into the bay

Till he fell victim to
Then baseball fans watched him wasting away.

2007-10-05 15:30:51
129.   LogikReader
ah hahahahaha!

Fuel to the Arod opt out fire!

2007-10-05 15:39:12
130.   Dr Gonzo
120 At the risk of messing up Bob's algorithm,

"Asked what kind of manager he wants, (Pirate GM) Huntington said, "A manager with energy, passion, structure, who will instill discipline, is an exhaustive communicator and wants to return pride to the Pittsburgh Pirates."

Mr. Showalter, white courtesy phone. Mr. Showalter...

2007-10-05 15:47:46
131.   Gen3Blue
What a time to steal third. What a resource Lofton is!
2007-10-05 15:51:55
132.   fanerman
129 What are you referring to?
2007-10-05 15:52:54
133.   Humma Kavula
125 I don't think that's what I was doing.

128 Good stuff! I like "Steroidophobia." Finding double-dactylic words is the hardest part.

2007-10-05 15:53:02
134.   still bevens
132 I believe Mr. Rod is 0-fer in the series so far. Lots of popping out to second and k's. Some walks here and there.
2007-10-05 15:55:50
135.   Jacob L
I think the Clevelands scored too many runs yesterday, and yeah, making the third out trying to steal third is not very PVLish. He must have been trying to light a fire under something or somebody.
2007-10-05 15:57:57
136.   Gen3Blue
Well, they now have Lofton's emnity for sure.
2007-10-05 16:02:36
137.   Gen3Blue
Doesn't this Sizemore cat have a good OBP.
2007-10-05 16:09:30
138.   fanerman
Lead-off triple doesn't score.
2007-10-05 16:11:43
139.   trainwreck
Abreu's bat is more brittle than Rich Harden's body.
2007-10-05 16:18:03
140.   fanerman
Yay. Another K for A-Rod.
2007-10-05 16:22:13
141.   Gen3Blue
1 How useless is A-rod in the post season--could be something to think about.

2 I forget.

2007-10-05 16:23:26
142.   Dodgers49
I guess no one should be shedding any tears for Dr. Buss after all:

About 1,000 tickets are available for each home game, with a limit of four tickets per person per game. Tickets will not be available for purchase at the Staples Center box office.

2007-10-05 16:23:41
143.   trainwreck
He could never get a hit for us in the playoffs for all I care. As long as we have him and gets us to the playoffs.
2007-10-05 16:24:54
144.   fanerman
141 He was pretty clutch back when he was in Seattle.
2007-10-05 16:27:48
145.   regfairfield
141 He's 0-5 against the #2 and #5 leaders in ERA this year. The clutchiest man on that team right now is hitting .200.
2007-10-05 16:29:52
146.   Marty
And talk radio is already hammering on the A-rod sucks in October meme.

All that needs to be asked is would the Yankees make the playoffs if A-Rod wasn't on the team this year?

2007-10-05 16:30:24
147.   Jacob L
I'm pretty sure that ARod is going to be an absolute beast in the playoffs for his new team. Just to keep the NY media up at night.
2007-10-05 16:31:33
148.   Gen3Blue
Oooh! Bad decision. Just an intuition.
2007-10-05 16:37:32
149.   Gen3Blue
I probably should never manage a team on intuition.
2007-10-05 16:38:08
150.   fanerman
149 I think you just jinxed it.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-05 16:42:15
151.   Jacob L
Boy, Fausto (perhaps my favorite name in baseball at the moment, sorry Joba) is pitching a heck of a ballgame. Too bad they don't seem to be able to push across a run for him.
2007-10-05 16:43:23
152.   Humma Kavula
147 The New York media will continue to sleep like the babies they are, no matter what happens.

Some of the many possibilities:

(1) A-Rod might still hit a ton this post-season. Story: He will be embraced. There will be nothing written to indicate that they ever doubted him. He will be proclaimed a golden god.

(2) A-Rod opts out. New team goes to the post-season, where A-Rod hits. Story: A-Rod couldn't hack it in New York.

(3) A-Rod opts out. New team goes to the post-season, where A-Rod doesn't hit. Story: A-Rod can't play in the post-season.

No matter what, the story fits the event.

2007-10-05 16:45:42
153.   Jacob L
152 Hmmm. I don't recall seeing your by-line in the Post or the Daily news, but you seem to have this down.
2007-10-05 16:47:15
154.   Humma Kavula
153 I work behind the scenes. I wrote the NY Post Style Guide.
2007-10-05 16:47:23
155.   RIYank
Humma K.

Yeah, it's often better to make up your own word.

A-Rod Possibilities:
You must read the Post every day!

2007-10-05 16:52:50
156.   Humma Kavula
For Cleveland, getting to Joba is Job A.
2007-10-05 16:52:58
157.   fanerman
Grady Sizemore: on-base machine.
2007-10-05 16:53:37
158.   Humma Kavula
"on-field delay?" what's going on?
2007-10-05 16:54:56
159.   Reiichi
158 Bugs I think
2007-10-05 16:56:03
160.   Gen3Blue
How often does this Sizemore get on base? where does he play?
2007-10-05 16:56:17
161.   sporky
159 - on-field delay = BUGS?!
2007-10-05 16:57:55
162.   Jacob L
When a playoff game is delayed on account of frogs, boils, or cattle disease, I'll be worried. And I'll bet on the Cubs to bounce back.
2007-10-05 16:58:34
163.   Gen3Blue
Ahhh. Finally!
2007-10-05 17:01:45
164.   Reiichi
Haha, I'm not sure. But the players and especially Joba is getting swarmed by all these gnats. Must be hell to pitch, as seen by the wild pitches =/
2007-10-05 17:02:51
165.   sporky
How bad is it? Gameday, unfortunately, is making no mention of such bugs. I'm using my imagination here.
2007-10-05 17:03:50
166.   Reiichi
There were about 50 or so swarming around Joba, with over a dozen on his neck.
2007-10-05 17:04:02
167.   Humma Kavula
165 Went into a co-worker's office to see.

It looks like a bad, humid summer's day by a lake... so, highly uncomfortable... but not plagueworthy.

2007-10-05 17:08:56
168.   El Lay Dave
Wow. Cleveland ties it on walk, wild pitch, sac, wild pitch. Joba strands two. 1-1. ARod due up fourth in the ninth. Dramatic stuff. Nice pitcher's duel.
2007-10-05 17:10:50
169.   Jim Hitchcock
157 Grady Sizemore? We could still have had Lofton!
2007-10-05 17:11:59
170.   Marty
Hi folks, this is Troy McClure. You may remember me from "Godzilla Meets the Pirates of Penzance" and "Jim Tracy, Ex-Manager".
2007-10-05 17:14:37
171.   sporky
Bugs! I'm sure I'll see it on ESPN tonight. How bizarre.

Is there a way we can kidnap Fausto?

2007-10-05 17:17:38
172.   El Lay Dave
Unbelievable. Abreu two-out, none one IF single to bring up ARod.
2007-10-05 17:24:05
173.   Jacob L
2007-10-05 17:24:16
174.   Marty
Reminds me somewhat of Jackson vs. Welch.
2007-10-05 17:24:20
175.   El Lay Dave
Full count and ARod strikes out. Start measuring him for Dodger Blue!
2007-10-05 17:25:56
176.   sporky
His pitching is unbelievable. His 111th pitch was 95mph to strike out A-Rod.
2007-10-05 17:26:40
177.   Humma Kavula
175 On nine pitches -- #105-113 from Fausto.
2007-10-05 17:26:50
178.   sporky
176 - Oops. 113th.
2007-10-05 17:28:45
179.   Humma Kavula
If the Yankees lose this one, this game will go down in Yankee lore as "the bug game."

In baseball, never let them see you swat.

2007-10-05 17:30:43
180.   Marty
Bronx Banter is bringing the Toaster to it's crust.
2007-10-05 17:50:43
181.   El Lay Dave
Sizemore leads off by reaching on a K-E2 play!
2007-10-05 17:55:56
182.   Bluebleeder87
Did anyone think of the Dodgers while watching Thursday's old vs. young, tech vs. gift basket episode of The Office?

Yup, I did. the Elder gentleman that diode his hair jet black & started talking "hip" was pretty priceless, The Office is just flat out great. I can't stress enough how much I enjoy Californication, put the sex aside & I still think it's a pretty darn good show, really smart & timely one liners also.

2007-10-05 18:15:42
183.   Gen3Blue
Lofton does what he does well ---Leadoff walk!
2007-10-05 18:35:44
184.   Bluebleeder87
Looks like it will be an up hill battle for the Yanks...
2007-10-05 18:36:09
185.   still bevens
I take umbrage with giving Pronk player of the game. Uh, how about Fausto Carmona?
2007-10-05 18:40:48
186.   El Lay Dave
185 Yet another TBS blunder.
2007-10-05 18:46:21
187.   old dodger fan
Friom Bronx Banter

"1489. pistolpete
I'm sure gonna miss Alex and Joe."

YES!! Maybe we can get em both.

2007-10-05 18:49:59
188.   bhsportsguy
BB - 1538 comments on a game thread, you have to admire the sheer volume of material.
2007-10-05 18:51:17
189.   old dodger fan
188 Agreed but if we were in the playoffs every year we would have a lot more than we do.
2007-10-05 18:51:17
190.   Linkmeister
180 I once posited back in 2003 that Steinbrenner and the Yankees had an unhealthy sense of entitlement about the World Series.

The Bronx Banter crowd is bearing out my theory.

2007-10-05 18:53:26
191.   bhsportsguy
189 I don't know. I don't think we post on game threads as much.
2007-10-05 18:58:23
192.   ToyCannon
"In baseball, never let them see you swat."


2007-10-05 18:58:23
193.   RIYank
185 Yeah, seems obvious.

190 Huh? What on earth does that mean?

2007-10-05 18:59:01
194.   ToyCannon
Nice one minute of baseball. Pronk delivers and then Figgy plays Manny.
2007-10-05 19:00:50
195.   bhsportsguy
193 Tough one man, I think you guys will blow them out on Sunday.
2007-10-05 19:01:26
196.   WillieD
117 Every time I am reminded that Tracy is no longer in Dodger blue, I feel a little happy inside.
2007-10-05 19:05:45
197.   Linkmeister
193 Just that Yankees fans take it so personally when their team fails; it's as though the Yankees are supposed to be in the World Series every year.

Granted that 28 or 30 championships can do that to a fan base, but it grates on me sometimes.

2007-10-05 19:06:10
198.   RIYank
195 Me too. But, man, bugs, huh?

The Book of Joba

... And Joba said, "Lord, why am I constantly tested and tried with misfortune and plague, a just man as I?"

2007-10-05 19:07:44
199.   RIYank
197 Well, I like fans to take it personally when the team fails, myself. (That's what I like about Red Sox fans.) But the entitlement thing I don't see at all. Maybe I'm blinded by being on the inside.
I'm reading the Banter stuff now (I took off for a couple of hours) and I don't see it. I don't suppose you'd give an example?
2007-10-05 19:13:19
200.   RIYank
Ah well, I'm sure I'm being testy. Losing in eleven innings will do that.
Oh, and, it's 26, but thanks for the extra rings! ;-)

Also, thanks to underdog, trainwreck, El Lay Dave, bhsportsguy, um, Humma K., and whoever else I'm missing, for dropping by at BB.

Guess I'll head over to Cardboard Gods for a while...

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-05 19:15:04
201.   El Lay Dave
200 Sure, thanks for tolerating us interlopers.
2007-10-05 19:15:43
202.   El Lay Dave
200 Thanks for tolerating us interlopers in blue.
2007-10-05 19:16:00
203.   sporky
My dad has had a mancrush on Roger Clemens for years. He's convinced Clemens is going to throw a no hitter tomorrow. Maybe he'll be right...?
2007-10-05 19:16:54
204.   Linkmeister
199 It's an imperfect example, but the anti-Torre, anti-Alex Rodriguez sentiment expressed after the game ended misses the point that under Torre the Yankees made it to, what, five WS in a row for the first time since the 1950s? And that Alex Rodriguez is the best player of his generation by miles. It's the "what have you done for me lately" attitude that I find a little objectionable.

Hey, it could be just me.

2007-10-05 19:21:25
205.   RIYank
204 Oh, that.
I think you misinterpreted that. That guy is just a Torre-hater. And there wasn't any serious anti-A-Rod sentiment, not at BB, I'm pretty sure. It might have been people predicting anti-A-Rod sentiment from the press.

Believe me, the huge majority at Bronx Banter is hoping and praying that Cashman works out a big extension on November 3rd and your guys don't even get a crack at Rodriguez.

Anyway. You know, different Yankee fans react differently, I'm sure. Obviously.

Cardboard Gods has almost no commenting action, what's up with that??

2007-10-05 19:21:43
206.   El Lay Dave
203 Only if a frog infestion, or whatever the next Biblical plague is, shortens the game to six innings. Clemens will not throw a CG - but he just has to get to Joba and Rivera.
2007-10-05 19:21:48
207.   sporky
203 - By 'tomorrow,' I obviously mean Sunday.
2007-10-05 19:22:51
208.   sporky
206 - sporky's dad: "Talk to the hand"

Or at least I think he'd say that :)

2007-10-05 19:24:38
209.   El Lay Dave
205 My guess is posted over there.

"Because there isn't a true Red Sox or Angels blog here [at the Toaster] - no hardcore group of the faithful to propel it."

2007-10-05 19:25:47
210.   ToyCannon
Really felt for Joba when the bugs descended. The only thing I hated about DC was playing baseball and having the gnats swirling around my head just like you saw on TV today.
2007-10-05 19:27:15
211.   El Lay Dave
208 Roger's barely younger than me! No way he lasts nine!
2007-10-05 19:27:16
212.   sporky
210 - Yeah.. poor dude must feel miserable/foolish.
2007-10-05 19:27:38
213.   KG16
Did we ever get an official count of Old Friends in the play offs?
2007-10-05 19:30:40
214.   El Lay Dave
213 Beats me. Should it include the managers (Mike Scioscia, Charlie Manuel)?
2007-10-05 19:31:14
215.   sporky
211 - My dad's usually a logical man, but not when it comes to matters like this.

If he lasts 7, it'd be a miracle.

2007-10-05 19:38:26
216.   Fallout
210 ToyCannon
Yeah, but the ones you saw on TV were the ones that made it to the bigs.
2007-10-05 20:01:58
217.   underdog
Sorry RI Yank :-( Tough, tough one. The Indians pitching was unbelievable. But the Yanks hung in there. What a buggy game.
2007-10-05 21:47:02
218.   Daniel Zappala
For the record, I didn't swear when Manny hit that one out. ;-)
2007-10-05 22:00:47
219.   nick
what can you do? the home field advantage strikes in its weirdest form....if we can't keep A-Rod, I hope he goes to LA--but I think Cashman has some ideas....
2007-10-06 00:34:27
220.   dzzrtRatt
I wonder if other mayflies saw the game on TV and recognized their friends.
2007-10-06 06:24:11
221.   Daniel Zappala
Maybe if both the Yankees and Angels flame out, A-Rod will go to LA to play for the Angels.

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