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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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October 8 Open Chat
2007-10-08 05:39
by Jon Weisman

Comments (276)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-08 06:46:45
1.   Andrew Shimmin
Is the Steve Springer thing going to be a fifty part series, to commemorate the fifty years since the Dodgers left Brooklyn?
2007-10-08 08:34:08
2.   Gen3Blue
With Hu and Kershaw being named to TSN's 10 man all prospect team, it may afford a bit more protection agaist either getting traded for a middle reliever or vet corner outfielder.
2007-10-08 09:11:55
3.   LogikReader
Hey everyone.

Before I go on, I want to congratulate both the Diamondbacks and the Rockies for advancing to the LCS. This is going to be one awesome series!

Well, in September I said the Diamondbacks were the surest to tank down the stretch.

When October began I said the Diamondbacks were sure to be blown out in the first round.

I have to give it to the pythag defying Dbacks for making a goofball out of me. Who do I favor in the NLCS? Of course, the Rockies!

However, I have a lot more respect for the Dbacks and wish the best for both teams.

2007-10-08 09:14:12
4.   Frip
Is there any legitimate, adult, rationale for being a fan of a team?
2007-10-08 09:20:42
5.   Frip
3 As you may know, the Diamondbacks were hurt by your late summer prediction, but word on the street is that upon receiving your congratulations they're feeling alot better.
2007-10-08 09:27:01
6.   ryu
Anybody know why the "C" in "UCLA" was painted a different color from the "U," "L," and "A" in the end zone on Saturday?
2007-10-08 09:29:24
7.   Terry A
Wasn't Torey Lovullo one of Depo's candidates to replace Jim Tracy in LA? Now he's the top choice, apparently, to follow Tracy in Pittsburgh:

(Apologies if this was noted previously.)

2007-10-08 09:32:54
8.   Bluebleeder87
traditionally do teams that advance to the playoffs do GOOD, BETTER OR WORSE the next season? it sounds like good research to do. of course you'd think the D-Backs & Rox are only gonna get better (young up & coming teams) in any case I think the NL West is gonna be pretty dominant the next couple of years & not to brag but the Dodgers & there (hopefully) big pockets & great young talent will be right up there with them to compete.
2007-10-08 09:33:57
9.   Bob Timmermann
The C is a different color all season to commemorate the 100 NCAA championships that UCLA has won.

C being the Roman Numeral for 100.

2007-10-08 09:43:06
10.   KG16
4 - Depends on how you define "adult" and "rational"

8 - I believe the answer to your question is "yes". Since 1995 (when the current format was installed), we see either teams returning to the playoffs for a decent stretch (Yankees, Indians, Braves early on; Cardinals 2004-2006). And then we also see teams win and then disappear from the playoff picture (Arizona, Florida (twice), Houston). Finally, we see teams be competitive for several years, though not necessarily making the playoffs (Angels, Boston, Mets

2007-10-08 09:47:23
11.   regfairfield
8 Instinctively, I'd say a little worse (since making the playoffs tends to mean you overperformed a bit), but a lot depends on the makeup of the team (group of veterans making a last ditch attempt at contention versus a strong young core) and the abilities of the front office.

I really can't see the Rockies or Diamondbacks doing better than 90 wins next year, but I've been wrong before.

2007-10-08 09:47:26
12.   ryu
9 Thanks Bob. Saturday was the first time I got to see the Bruins this season, either on TV or in person. And that C just looked odd, or at least stood out.
2007-10-08 09:50:56
13.   Bob Timmermann
That was the first time you saw UCLA play?

My condolences.

2007-10-08 09:51:11
14.   Frip
10 "Depends on how you define "adult" and "rational".

Big hit at parties are ya?

2007-10-08 09:53:08
15.   regfairfield
4 Probably not, but there isn't for other hobbies/pasttimes either.
2007-10-08 09:53:32
16.   LogikReader
I'm an SC fan, and have been since the late 90's, so I wasn't happy to see them get embarrassed by Stanford.

On the other hand, I wasn't really that disappointed, and in a way I expected it. I could not believe the 710 ESPN guys in the Pre Game show bragging about how the line wasn't big enough. Uh, I don't think so. They struggled on offense all year and if anything Stanford was a sure bet to cover.

Anyway, I'm not really that disappointed because I still think USC can run the table the rest of they way. Today, Cal is the clear favorite in the Pac-10.

2007-10-08 09:55:03
17.   CajunDodger
OK. I have wanted to broach this topic for the past couple of months but wanted to wait for an open chat to do so.

It is time for the Dodgers to officially name Russ Martin Captain. It is obvious that Kent wants to win his championship working only from innings 1-9 and reading magazines the rest of the time. Nomar just doesn't have that kick-you-in-the-face leadership that is needed.

We need this to happen for two reasons.

1. It would scratch Ned's itch to sign a "veteran presence". This ensures one less player with an OPS below 750.

2. It would put the fate of the team in the hands of a battle-tested, younger guy that can be with the team for years to come (see: Jeter, Matt Holliday, and Eric Byrnes)

2007-10-08 10:00:23
18.   regfairfield
17 Not that I believe this will help one way or the other, but:

Would Ned believe that stitching a C on someones uniform give them adequate presence?

Jeter, Holliday and Byrnes are all much older than Martin. Will the veterans really start feeling inspired by a 24 year old?

2007-10-08 10:01:18
19.   CajunDodger
I am an unabashed LSU guy, but here is a semi-unbiased observation about SC.

They needed to lose one of the close games for the sake of the rest of their season. They will play some tight contests with Oregon and Cal and will need the experience of this loss. Not so much for the players as the coaches. Carroll, it seems to me has gotten a bit cocky (rightfully so). I think that his decision not to take the three points before halftime shows that he thought he could outcoach Harbaugh at the half.

I hope that SC does run the table because the last thing that I want to see (if everything goes as well as I hope) is someone like BC or South Florida in the Title game. I want to see the LSU-USC game that both fan bases have been wanting.

2007-10-08 10:07:38
20.   CajunDodger
Other than Kent (who only cares about winning) and Nomar (who is passive regardless), what veterans need to be inspired? Martin has the respect and admiration of the entire pitching staff (50% of the team), all the young guys, and his veteran backup.

The only two guys that I would worry about are Pierre and Furcal. JP seems to be a pretty good team guy, but the only one that I am unsure about is Furcal. He stays out of the press, but has the potential to be our best all-around player.

I just want to see the guy that everyone knows is the best (albeit inexperienced) leader in the clubhouse get his due. And it would ensure that we do not sign someone like JP or Nomar this offseason just for the sake of "presence".

2007-10-08 10:09:32
21.   Bluebleeder87
I think lead by example is best suited for the Dodgers at this moment in time, & who better to exemplify that concept the Russell Martin...
2007-10-08 10:14:45
22.   KG16
14 - I have my moments.

But honestly, I can't think of an adult, rational reason to root for one team over another. Maybe you know some of the guys on the team? Maybe they have a philosophy with which you agree?

I sort of root for the Chargers because they're the closest thing we have to a local football team. Then again, I tend to root for Miami Uni. during football season because I really wanted to go to law school there (ok, I'll admit, not a good reason).

2007-10-08 10:15:47
23.   Wilbert Robinson
Sorry if thios has been posted here but I just found this article on Jim Tracy and the '07 Bucs. It claims that Tracy's emotional attachment to the '04 Dodgers borded on lunacy.

Werner Herzog should make a film about the managerial career of Jim Tracy.

2007-10-08 10:16:20
24.   Wilbert Robinson
23 borded = bordered
2007-10-08 10:17:59
25.   Frip
15 "Probably not, but there isn't for other hobbies/pasttimes either."

The strange thing about being a sports fan though is the issue of loyalty. You can be be into toy trains, but unlike a sports team, you wouldn't feel like you were betraying toy trains if you started liking toy cars instead.

Teams do alot to anger their fans, or offer nothing TO like about them. Seems to me the most rational of us respond by disowning their team. And the non-rationals respond with battered woman syndrome.

2007-10-08 10:19:47
26.   RIYank
18 I know you just meant that in a metaphorical way, but neither Holliday nor Jeter nor Byrnes have "C"s stitched on their uniforms. Jason Varitek has one. I don't think anyone else in MLB does (but I'd be happy to be corrected on that).

A small sore point of mine, is all.

2007-10-08 10:21:28
27.   KG16
18 - Ned being a bit more of an old school type, yes, I could see how naming a guy captain would give that guy insta-presence, in Ned's eye.

I can't figure this whole thing out though. I tend to believe that the human aspect of baseball is overlooked in the statistical analysis, so maybe having a captain and thereby an undisputed leader is a good thing. But then, how many teams actually have captains? The Yankees and the Red Sox? Who else? Is it really going to affect things on the field more than a year of improvement from Loney, Kemp, and Ethier? Or more than having someone who can actually play defense at second base?

2007-10-08 10:23:07
28.   ryu
13 I lost FSN after switching from cable to satellite and I don't get Versus (or whatever channel their games are sometimes on).

I think I'll switch back to cable once the satellite contract runs out.

Hopefully the Bruins will have figured out how to beat winless teams by then.

2007-10-08 10:25:04
29.   KG16
Ok, I just looked it up on wikipedia... according to the all knowing source of the intertubes, Jeff Kent is the captain of the Dodgers. It also does not list Byrnes, but does list Sweeney in KC, and Konerko in Chicago.

For what it's worth

2007-10-08 10:27:56
30.   fanerman
23 Wow. Just... wow.
2007-10-08 10:35:05
31.   CajunDodger
I firmly believe that this would help Ned more than the team itself. Cream rises to the top when it comes to leadership. The players know who to look to when a play needs to be made of a butt needs to be kicked.

For Ned, this would give him peace of mind that the clubhouse situation has been addressed and would allow him to acquire the best players irrespective of their status as veterans. It could be the difference between someone like Mike Lowell coming in versus a Miguel Cabrera.

2007-10-08 10:37:58
32.   Ken Noe
Any Dodger hot stove news getting kicked around out there on TV and radio? The LA newspapers and internets ("a series of tubes") are silent.
2007-10-08 10:41:05
33.   KG16
32 - hot stove stuff doesn't usually start on TV until after the World Series - which is why I was surprised by the Santana/Kemp deal earlier this week.
2007-10-08 10:42:19
34.   delias man
Has anybody here been to Cooperstown? Can you do the HOF in one day, or do you need two? thanks.
2007-10-08 10:45:42
35.   RIYank
34 I took my kids there this summer, as a matter of fact. One day seemed like plenty to me. It depends on how into it you are, of course.

There are some other things to do in the area, too. Springfield was on the way for us, so we stopped at the basketball HoF (which I have to admit was more fun for the kids, because there are more hands-on things to do there).

2007-10-08 10:47:12
36.   PadreJeremy
What is the thoughts of Dodger fans regarding signing Alex Rodriguez this offseason? I am one that thinks LaRoche should get a shot and that the money be spent elsewhere. I would much rather have Adam Dunn in LF, a stud pitcher, and LaRoche at 3b for about the same price. I think if Dunn is a FA, you sign him before you sign Arod considering the money saved versus the production difference.

Would ARod even consider LA if the Yankees were offering the same money?

2007-10-08 10:47:17
37.   kinbote
32 dodgers are probably weighing the decision to pick up lieberthal's contract option for next year. that's about as hot as it gets right now.
2007-10-08 10:48:18
38.   Bob Timmermann
You can see the Baseball Hall of Fame in one day. The only reason to go for two days would be if you were doing research in the library.

I spent about 4 hours there and I pretty much saw every single exhibit that was on display. Cooperstown has very poor dining options.

2007-10-08 10:49:46
39.   Frip
I would like the Dodgers less if Rodriguez were on the team, but I'd be glad for the greater success.
2007-10-08 10:50:56
40.   Dark Horse
The fantasies about obtaining an A-Rod or a Cabrera are really inviting, but I'm afraid they're just that. Sure, we should get A-Rod: more than anything, that's what we need. But who honestly thinks McCourt has the stones, the raw, Ahab-like commitment to winning required to outbid not just Steinbrenner but the Cubs, the Mets, the Red Sox, the Angels or any other team that might be all-in? I don't, I'm afraid, and Cabrera could be had. For Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley and LaRoche. I don't especially want to make that trade, and I'm guessing Ned doesn't either.

Hence, Mike Lowell. The trouble with Colletti is he appears to think "doing something" is always preferable to doing nothing: that more is more, regardless. It's better to sign Pierre or pick up Loaiza than to do neither, because, y'know, you can't have too much of an almost-good thing. Pierre doesn't walk, or play defense, but he "led the league in hits." Lowell likewise: "insurance." But it'll prevent LaRoche from developing or playing and we'll trade him in the offseason for a sack of magic beans or Scott Shields, whichever gets offered first.

The organization's lack of foresight, its continuous poulticing of wounds that need to bleed clean, is potentially its doom. This whole "veteran" thing will go away, and Kent--if he comes back next year--will feel better by virtue of its being a new season. But Colletti will doubtless feel compelled to address this somehow, too.

2007-10-08 10:52:27
41.   bhsportsguy
38 I saw it one day too, I think it is more interesting if you have some base knowledge of the history of the game, seeing the Ruth and Gehrig's lockers won't mean much if you don't know that way were the original Papi and Manny (with apologies to Cobb and Wahoo Sam)
2007-10-08 11:00:16
42.   RIYank
38 Bob, there is a Chinese restaurant in Cooperstown, but I don't think I can give its name without violating Dodger Thoughts rules. Seriously.
2007-10-08 11:02:51
43.   kinbote
40 i agree with a lot of what you say. another scenario i can envision is for colletti to sign a free agent leftfielder--dunn, for example--and then deal with the roster/lineup repercussions later (or let grady deal with them). that just sounds like something he'd do. i think nomar will get every chance to be the starting 3b unless a megadeal [a-rod, cabrera] happens.
2007-10-08 11:03:04
44.   LogikReader

Ahahahahaha! They have a nice website too :) Is their food as good as Sam Wo's?

2007-10-08 11:04:39
45.   Bob Timmermann
The restaurant's website is:
2007-10-08 11:05:24
46.   Eric Stephen
42 ,44
2007-10-08 11:06:14
47.   Eric Stephen
45 Gotta respect for using the same shortened link even though we both entered separately.
2007-10-08 11:08:17
48.   RIYank
There ya go.
It's good food. I'm afraid I don't know Sam Wo's.
2007-10-08 11:09:37
49.   CajunDodger
I think that if Colletti were patient this offseason, a lot of deals will come to him. Guys like Santana, Cabrera, Damon (God forbid), and Berkman could probably be had because there are not a lot of teams with excess prospects.

In a lot of ways, we have a ton of flexibility because of our organizational depth. Guys like McDonald, Hu, Abreu, and LaRoche could be traded without touching our "untouchables". If I am not mistaken, we turned Joel Guzman into Chris Withrow (Guzman=Lugo=draft pick=Withrow). Something similar could be done with a guy like Dunn or ManRam.

I am not advocating any one particular move per se, but I think that a lot of GMs will come to Colletti if he is patient instead of aggressive.

2007-10-08 11:13:46
50.   Disabled List
I loved every minute I was in Cooperstown, but I was a little disappointed that I was able to complete the whole museum in an afternoon. It ought to be a lot bigger than it is.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-08 11:15:09
51.   LogikReader

2007-10-08 11:19:58
52.   yankz
Assuming he gets at least a couple hits tonight (and hopefully Wednesday night), I really think Arod would want to stay in New York if they offered him the same money as LAD, NYM, etc. He's definitely made more friends on the team this year, and the city loves him. Didn't boo at all last night.

However, we must not underestimate the power of C-Rod. She apparently hates NYC.

2007-10-08 11:20:17
53.   Eric Stephen
49 I'd include LaRoche on the "untouchable" list, with the caveat that no one is really untouchable and that I'd jettison LaRoche in favor of A-Rod or Cabrera, but not much else.

Dodgers that are truly "untouchable" (as I think back to Greg Brock's brilliant "show me on the doll where the Dodgers touched you"):


2nd tier of untouchability (i.e. would have to be for a truly great player -- Santana, Cabrera, etc):


Everyone else is quite touchable.

2007-10-08 11:23:34
54.   Telemachos
16 Since USC only fell to #7 in the coach's poll (which will help determine the BCS), and since they have the toughest road schedule right now, if they run the table, I think absolutely they'll be in the BCS Title Game.

Whether or not they actually can run the table is a different question. I think if they played today, USC would lose to both Cal and Oregon. But if the entire team and coaching staff takes this loss to heart (as they should), and if this cold slap wakes them up, then I can certainly see them winning out. USC plays down to their competition, but certainly plays up to competition as well.

If Stanford wons another few games, that'll help USC in the computer polls as well.

LSU looks strong, but I don't know how they'll face up against a really good Pac-10-style team (Oregon, Cal, or possibly USC). It would certainly be a fantastic game, and I hope we get to see it.

2007-10-08 11:24:08
55.   jasonungar07
The best hope we have is that Frank walks into Neds office and says..

Frank: what is 54 + 52?

Ned: 106?

Frank: what is 108-106?

Ned: 2?

Frank: Just think about that a while. And don't come out of your room until May.

2007-10-08 11:24:12
56.   Bob Timmermann
A-Rod and C-Rod would find that if they lived in Southern California, the vast majority of people wouldn't give a small virulent rodent's hindquarters about them.

Even Kobe Bryant doesn't get as much ink. And the Beckhams barely made a splash.

2007-10-08 11:27:55
57.   njr
I'm not sure if this was posted before. New renderings of the Dodger Stadium renovations.

2007-10-08 11:28:56
58.   Dark Horse
49-I agree. It's just that Colletti is about as patient as my three-year-old daughter. "Wait for other GMs to come to him?" Why no, man, it's about workin' those phones, the price is right, let's make a deal.

I try to stay calm, but Ned scares me. As I say, he just needs to wheel-n-deal.

2007-10-08 11:41:29
59.   Bob Timmermann
Unless the field level entrance is open to all ticketholders, few people will ever notice the difference.

Most of us will still be climbing up the stairs to the reserved level.

2007-10-08 11:44:39
60.   Andrew Shimmin
57- Looks like an airport.
2007-10-08 11:45:31
61.   CajunDodger
The SEC is definitely a defense-first league. I want to see what LSU could do against the best of the PAC 10. Right now, I want to see them against USC, but if Cal can run the table, then I would love to see Tedford scheme against Pelini and the LSU defense.

Florida showed that they are not impenetrable, but there may not be more playmakers anywhere in the country on one side of the ball. Last year, LSU had 4 first rounders, and this year it looks as if there will be at least three (Doucet, Dorsey, and Highsmith).

2007-10-08 11:46:25
62.   bhsportsguy
1. If the Reds exercise their option for Adam Dunn, he receives a complete a no-trade clause until June 15, 2008 (after that date he can select 19 teams to which he cannot be traded to w/out his consent).
2. Lance Berkman has a no-trade clause in his deal that ends in 2010.
3. Johnny Damon has a limited no-trade clause in his deal that ends after the 2009 season.
4. Migueal Cabrera will be a free agent after the 2009 season, this year he made $7.4 million after arbitration.
2007-10-08 11:47:41
63.   CajunDodger
I want to see the Dodger HOF that the McCourts keep talking about outside center field. I don't think that is in this renovation, though. No money in it for them.
2007-10-08 11:48:59
64.   bhsportsguy
62 If the Reds were going to deal Adam Dunn, they would have done so before now. Either they exercise the option, sign him to an extension or just let him leave, trading him is not a real option for them anymore.
2007-10-08 11:54:08
65.   Bob Timmermann
The only thing about the SEC that bothers me is that ESPN makes people believe that if any SEC team wins a road conference game, it must be a national championship contender.

Unless the team is playing at Vanderbilt.

2007-10-08 11:54:54
66.   delias man
thanks to all for the HOF info.....
2007-10-08 11:59:25
67.   Terry A
23 - Sounds like Tracy would make one heck of a bench coach.
2007-10-08 12:13:19
68.   Telemachos
61 The thing about LSU that makes me think they could be beaten by a good Pac-10 team is that so many of the SEC offenses seem fairly one-dimensional. Florida is a good team, and beat LSU for three quarters (in the Superdome). But they're basically Tim Tebow on offense, and that's it. The Pac-10 teams are so dynamic on offense, with multiple threats at a variety of positions, that I think they'd be a real challenge for LSU's defense (as good as it is).

Of course, I admit I haven't seen a lot of LSU games, so maybe I'm not seeing them at their best. Certainly I would think USC is over-rated if I'd only watched the last couple games.

I wish more teams had the guts to regularly schedule major out-of-conference games -- it's really interesting and fun to see teams with very different philosophies match up.

2007-10-08 12:20:16
69.   LogikReader

The SEC plays road games? Almost all of LSU's games are inside their state! Then you have three in neighboring Mississippi and Alabama... the farthest they have to travel is to Kentucky.

2007-10-08 12:20:47
70.   LogikReader
69 was for 65
2007-10-08 12:28:19
71.   MJW101
66 If you arrive at Cooperstown the evening before, planning on seeing the HOF the next day, get your tickets after checking in and do a brief tour. If you buy your ticket in the late evening it is still good for the next day. There is also a very interesting Farm Museum and Art Museum on the west side of town.

Just a few miles east down the interstate (I90) is an underground cave tour site worth seeing.

The lake and its environs should be very pretty this time of year. The lake is the headwaters of the Susquehanna River.

My wife and I stayed at a B&B outside of Cooperstown run by the HOF historian's wife. If you are looking for accommodations call or visit the Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce Visitor's Center. They were the most helpful visitor's center of all the places we visited in upper NY state.

2007-10-08 12:32:39
72.   Eric Enders
I disagree somewhat with Bob. The Hall can certainly be viewed in one day, but if you're the type who reads every label on every exhibit, you'll need two. I mean, if you felt like it, you could spend two hours reading the plaques alone.

He's right about the terrible dining options, though. Two things I would recommend. For lunch, get a sandwich from Danny's Market. For dinner, you should go to Nicoletta's. Both are on Main Street, near the CVS.

2007-10-08 12:34:37
73.   Eric Enders
Also, the Hawkeye Grill has nice views of the lake and has very reasonable lunch prices, though they will charge you an arm and a leg for dinner. It's on the first floor of the Otesaga Hotel.
2007-10-08 12:39:30
74.   Bumsrap
My untouchables are:

I would not trade for Santana, period. The Dodgers with Penny, Lowe, and Billingsley are good enough in 2008 for them to wait for Santana to be a free agent in 2009.

If the Dodgers can't resign/extend Furcal before 2008 starts then I would include him in a trade and give Hu or Abreu the ss job in 2008.

If Kemp is traded it only would be if Pierre and Kent were part of the package and if this is difficult, well who wants to trade Kemp anyway.

2007-10-08 12:39:54
75.   Johnny Nucleo
Trying to understand the Dodgers' season in retrospect, came up with a list of the five most important preventable mistakes management made this year. No doubt there are others, these are the five that come to mind:
1) Signing Pierre to a long-term contract instead of a one year deal.
2) Pierre starting every day, not even platooning against lefties.
3) Pierre continuing to bat at the top of the lineup almost completely through his first four months of mediocrity.
4) Keeping Kemp in the minors too long after recovering from his injury.
5) Too slow to move Garciaparra to third, Loney to 1st.
2007-10-08 12:41:57
76.   Eric Enders
For me there are no untouchables. Everybody has a point at which they're tradeable. I would trade any player in the organization for a Grady Sizemore/Fausto Carmona package. Not that it'll happen.
2007-10-08 12:43:53
77.   Eric Enders
74 That would be pretty funny, in a masochistic sort of way. The only reason to trade Kemp is because Kent doesn't like him. So you tell Kent, "The good news is, we traded Kemp. The bad news is, you're going with him."
2007-10-08 12:50:39
78.   Eric Enders
75 I think number 3 is not all that important. Batting orders have a lot more symbolic importance than actual importance. The rest of those, yeah, they hurt.

A few others:

6) The failure to call up Jonathan Meloan in midseason, so he could get his big league jitters out of the way in July and be a contributing pitcher down the stretch. He had nothing left to prove in the minors at that point.

7) Speaking of nothing left to prove in the minors, I was also distressed by the failure to replace Garciaparra with LaRoche in late July/early August.

8) The insistence on giving some August starts to Brett Tomko which should instead have gone to James McDonald.

2007-10-08 12:57:04
79.   regfairfield
9) Giving Nomar a no trade clause when it was pretty apparent that James Loney was, at worst, the exact same player.

10) Giving up on Betemit too soon, and when they did, not giving LaRoche a real chance and handing the at bats to Abreu, then Nomar.

2007-10-08 13:00:20
80.   Dodgers49
From previous thread:

20. Also, what is the rationale behind not having the division winner with the best record play a wild card winner from its own division?

Why not just seed them according to most wins?

The Commissioner would prefer to avoid the embarrassment of a scenario whereby Team A could completely dominate Team B during a long season series only to have Team B then unceremoniously dump Team A from the playoffs by getting lucky in the short opening series. This situation became acute with the current unbalanced schedule whereby a team may play other teams in its own division 18 or 19 times while playing far fewer games against other teams. For example, lets say San Diego has a great season winning 100 games or so while dominating the Dodgers by winning 16 of 19. The Dodgers then sneak into the playoffs as the wild card, gets lucky for just three games and boots out the team that beat them like a drum all season. The Commissioner put at least two obstacles in the way of this happening. The Dodgers would have to:
1). Defeat one of the other Division winners first, and
2). Defeat San Diego in a best of seven championship series (should San Diego advance)

The current unbalanced schedule is due to the need to schedule interleague games. So, while the Dodgers would have played 18 or 19 games against San Diego they would only have played 6 or 9 games against the other two Division winners.

2007-10-08 13:11:19
81.   Eric Enders
"Why not just seed them according to most wins?"

That is a different question, and I think the answer has something to do with the objections by baseball traditionalists to having a wild card to begin with. They want finishing in first place to still have some advantage, so they make things as tough for the wild card as possible. This is why the wild card can never have home field advantage in any series (except the World Series), even if they have a better record than the team they are facing.

2007-10-08 13:15:00
82.   bhsportsguy
80 Has happened before when you just had two divisions.
1983 - Dodgers went 11-1 against the Phillies in the regular season, lost in playoffs, 3-1.
1988 - Mets went 11-1 against the Dodgers in the regular season, lost in playoffs, 4-3.
2007-10-08 13:21:37
83.   Eric Enders
Has anyone ever heard a good explanation for what the deal was with the 1988 Mets-Dodgers regular season matchups? The Mets weren't that much better than the Dodgers. In fact, if you remove the games the two teams played against each other, the Dodgers were actually significantly better than the Mets when playing against the rest of the league (93-56, as opposed to the Mets' 88-59).
2007-10-08 13:23:00
84.   Dodgers49
82. 1988 - Mets went 11-1 against the Dodgers in the regular season, lost in playoffs, 4-3.

Yep, 1988 was the first thing that I thought about when the question first came up. I didn't remember 1983 though.

2007-10-08 13:24:27
85.   StolenMonkey86
is there some way we could trade Pierre for Jim Edmonds, since Edmonds is under contract for next year still?

Upside: Edmonds will be off the payroll sooner and could be replaced by Young, Repko, or a FA outfielder. Would not have to play every day. Put up a Rate2 of 106 in CF last year (compare to Pierre's 90).

Downside: he could hit .252/.325/.402 again and would get AB in the middle of the lineup.

2007-10-08 13:41:36
86.   regfairfield
85 If the Cardinals hire Dave Littlefield, it could be done.
2007-10-08 13:50:15
87.   bhsportsguy
83 Actually they went 10-1 against the Dodgers that year, my mistake.

In 11 games the Mets scored 49 runs and gave up only 18. Gooden had 4 starts and went 3-0, the only non-decision, the Mets won in extra innings.

They had a team ERA of 1.51 against the Dodgers who were not an offensive juggernaut anyway. Gibson had a .576 OPS against the Mets, Hershiser only had one start, he lost 2-1, pitching a complete game.

2007-10-08 13:57:39
88.   CajunDodger
LSU's schedule this year is definitely favorable, but last year we went on the road to Florida, Auburn, Arizona (because of Katrina), Tennessee, and Arkansas. In alternating years our schedule is tough in conference because of two extra road games against the tougher opponents.

I will say that even though we will end up playing the bulk of our games at home, our schedule will have included at least 6 ranked teams, and that may balloon to 8 if Arkansas and/or Alabama are any good toward the end of the year (VA Tech, Florida, Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, and the SEC title game if all goes well). And that is before our bowl game.

I would prefer if we scheduled more legit out-of-conference foes. The VA Tech game was a home and away that we scheduled in 1997.

2007-10-08 14:04:44
89.   Ken Noe
88 Speaking as a Hokie grad, it's okay with me if we don't play you again for awhile. Ouch. Speaking as an employee of Auburn University, I don't see the Tigers derailing you this year, although the team I saw Saturday was better than the one that lost to MSU. Overall, unless TV gets involved, the financial incentive in the SEC will always be to play more cupcakes at home.
2007-10-08 14:05:25
90.   Telemachos
88 Oh yes, I wasn't intending to single out LSU for not scheduling tough out-of-conference games. It's something that most schools avoid... and I understand why, especially in a very competitive conference like the SEC.

But more games like Cal/Tenn, USC/Arkansas (a few years back), Michigan/Oregon, etc would be really fun in the regular college season, and I think would be good for the sport in general (although individual teams might occasionally be hurt by a loss).

2007-10-08 14:05:28
91.   CajunDodger
88 My last LSU post...I promise


I would have to agree about the Tomko thing. Probably more than any other point.

2007-10-08 14:07:36
92.   Robert Fiore
I would assume the main factor in Rodriguez staying or leaving is how much he likes playing in New York. If he does then the money is there. An advantage Los Angeles has is that if he comes here he immediately becomes the biggest star on the team, and very likely in sports altogether, aside from Kobe (who has popularity issues).

Per 75, it appears to me that the Dodgers decided going into Spring Training that Loney and Kemp weren't ready yet, Loney and Kemp proved them wrong, and the Dodgers sent them down anyway. Assuming Gonzo and Garciaparra would be more productive players in the year 2007 was simply wrongheaded. Winning teams put the best nine men on the field regardless of what they've committed to pay them.

2007-10-08 14:09:37
93.   KG16
49 - for the record, as much as Damon has dropped off (or at least is perceived to have dropped off), I'd make a straight up deal of Pierre for Damon in a heart beat.

80 - I'm going to go with the cliched response: that's why they play the games. I get the Commissioner's "concern", but if you're really worried about that, why not go back to two divisions and one round of playoffs?

81 - I have no problem with the division winners having home field against the wild card teams. Perhaps I worded it wrong. What I meant was, let's say we have a situation like this: Mets win the East with 100 wins; Cubs win the Central with 93 wins; Dodgers win the West with 90 wins; and Atlanta takes the WC with 88 wins. Why not let NY and Atl play each other in the first round, instead of going with the Dodgers vs the Mets and the Cubs against the Braves? Now, if the Braves, in my scenario finished with 95 wins, I'd have no problem with the Mets playing the Dodgers and the Cubs playing the Braves (with Chicago having home field).

2007-10-08 14:12:28
94.   The Blue Legend
Keeping Tomko for so long was a big miscalculation. He easily cost us about 5 games if not more.

Great comments about the HOF. I was just there over Labor Day Weekend, and you guys just brought back memories of the beautiful lake as you approach the HOF.

One thing to consider about A-Rod is that he has the reputation of not being great as the main guy in the team. Also who knows how he would get a long with some of the up and coming rookies. He didn't fare too well in Texas. He's not known as a leader.

2007-10-08 14:14:40
95.   KG16
I've been wondering about something... I seem to notice a lot of people mentioning "luck" as a factor in short series' and single games. But it only seems to apply when teams or players that are deemed "not as good" do something big. No one considers Manny and Ortiz hitting home runs against the Angels to be luck, right? But there seems to be this notion that Arizona and Colorado have been lucky.

So, the question is, at what point is it being lucky and at what point is it just being good and playing better than the other team?

2007-10-08 14:15:30
96.   KG16
94 - I'm pretty sure A-Rod won an MVP award in Texas. Not his fault no one else on the team performed.
2007-10-08 14:18:39
97.   StolenMonkey86
One thing to consider about A-Rod is that he has the reputation of not being great as the main guy in the team.

um, I'll take a risk on that. He wasn't bad in Texas. And his "down year" in NY was just really good instead of awesome.

Also who knows how he would get a long with some of the up and coming rookies.

He was teammates with Gary Sheffield. He can handle anyone.

He didn't fare too well in Texas. He's not known as a leader.

2007-10-08 14:20:31
98.   StolenMonkey86
Keeping Tomko for so long was a big miscalculation. He easily cost us about 5 games if not more.

Good call, although I don't think Colletti did a lot of calculations.

2007-10-08 14:20:55
99.   Disabled List
The rule that prevents teams in the same division from playing each other in the first round of the playoffs might otherwise be known as the "Don't Waste the All-Holy Red Sox-Yankees Matchup in the First Round Rule"
2007-10-08 14:21:17
100.   Dodgers49
87. 83 Actually they went 10-1 against the Dodgers that year, my mistake.

I'm sure you've looked it up since, but the funny thing is that I also remembered 1988 as 11-1 Mets. How could we both have been wrong? :-)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-08 14:22:10
101.   bhsportsguy
95 You could consider the injuries to the Angels as bad luck, they could have won Game 2 but could not get a key hit.

Were the Cardinals the best team last year or just fortunate the Carpenter was able to avoid injury until this season.

There are just too many times when the "best" team does not win the championship but championships are not given based on criteria that determines the best team, it is all about what happens that day.

What Red Sox fan doesn't catch that foul ball, what if Manny just misses that pitch?

For Colorado to win 17 out of 18 games, sure it takes skill, it also took Saito giving up his first walk-off home run, it took Hoffman blowing two saves, the D-Backs maybe have less of luck factor but now maybe they are unlucky to face an NL West team that does give them trouble.

2007-10-08 14:28:29
102.   CajunDodger
This plays on a point that I told a Cubs fan yesterday. I would rather have a bit of bad luck for the Dodgers and not make the playoffs at all than another sweep. Imagine if we had somehow gotten to the Wild Card. Does Gonzo re-sign? Do we trade LaRoche for middle relief or a fringy (sp?) starter?

Colletti could have looked at this season as bad luck if we had failed in the playoffs again. Who knows? He may have even signed the "gritty" Tomko to an extension. [he said, piling on unnecessarily]

2007-10-08 14:32:58
103.   Ken Noe
I assume that any real attempt to land ARod would be preceded by a McCourt salary dump. If I read Jon's numbers right, we'd save 8.5 mil by buying out Kent. Furcal is owed 13 mil next year, Nomar 8.5 mil., JP 8 mil or 10 mil over the next several years. The money seemingly would be there simply by embracing the "youth movement" + ARod. I'm sure I'm missing something, what?
2007-10-08 14:33:13
104.   jasonungar07
What drives me most crazy is this. they knew it Coletti. You didn't. Colorado knows it. Arizona knows it. Upton is 19.

Said Colletti: "Young players, in general, when they get to the big leagues, it's about personal survival. As time goes on, and I've seen it amongst our young players, especially in the last month or so they know that they're talented enough in the big leagues. Now, the focus has started to turn to, 'How can we win the game?' That's a key component, but that takes time."

2007-10-08 14:36:53
105.   kinbote
in looking at the free agent leftfielders, nobody stands out:

Moises Alou (42) - $7.5MM club option for '08
Barry Bonds (43)
Milton Bradley (30)
Adam Dunn (28) - $13MM club option for '08
Cliff Floyd (35) - mutual option for '08
Luis Gonzalez (40)
Geoff Jenkins (33) - $9MM club option for '08
Reggie Sanders (40)
Shannon Stewart (34)
Brad Wilkerson (31)

we'd certainly be better off just letting ethier play every day.

is there anyone here even colletti would sign?

2007-10-08 14:37:27
106.   Dodgers49
47. 45 Gotta respect for using the same shortened link even though we both entered separately.

I noticed that earlier this year. I guess I should have expected them to match it against the same link I'd had them generate a day earlier but I was surprised anyway.

2007-10-08 14:37:57
107.   The Blue Legend
I would much rather see kids like abreu, young, the rookie pitchers, get on the job experience next year than have to sit through another season of seeing journeymen taking up roster spots. I know that there will be growing pains with playing the kids everyday but it will also be exciting to see when they start breaking out. Sure there might be a couple that won't pan out but at least we won't have to live witht the what if.
2007-10-08 14:39:31
108.   LogikReader

I was guessing Sanders or Alou.

Foolish? Yes. Inconceivable? Absolutely not!

2007-10-08 14:39:55
109.   KG16
104 - I hate to say it, but Colletti has a point in that quote, to a certain extent. Generally speaking, when a guy gets called up, he is looking just to stay on the big club. It's only when they are assured that they aren't going back to AAA do they get a chance to relax and just play the game. The difference between the Dodgers and Colorado/Arizona is that the Dodgers blocked their young talent while the other teams let their young players know that they weren't going to face going back to AAA if they struggled for a week.

It's the difference between committing to the youth movement and being Plaschke.

2007-10-08 14:41:33
110.   Bob Timmermann

Some would say:

2007-10-08 14:42:35
111.   KG16
110 - what about Ness?
2007-10-08 14:43:28
112.   CajunDodger
What about Manny Ramirez? I know that long term contracts to mediocre veterans are not the answer, but Ned made a pass at ManRam last winter, but the price was too high. With only one year left on the contract, couldn't we take that on with maybe one prospect or two?

The first part of that I can see, but what may have to happen there would be LaRoche/Young to the Sox with us getting Manny and then having to sign a 3B like Lowell...

2007-10-08 14:45:21
113.   yankz
Arod gets along very well with younger players. When Melky and Cano were first called up, they couldn't afford suits, so Arod bought them each a couple. He is constantly giving them advice and hanging out with them, and includes them in his rigorous workouts. You should see this goofy little dance the 3 of them have.

(Who am I, Scott Boras?)

2007-10-08 14:45:37
114.   KG16
112 - Manny playing left field any where other than Fenway scares the bejesus out of me. Especially if it is in LA
2007-10-08 14:46:22
115.   Bob Timmermann
Ness is a veteran and he can be moved.

Not that Malone is a youngster.

2007-10-08 14:48:41
116.   CajunDodger
We put up with it in Kent and Pierre, but I can see how that might send us into the "horrible defense" strata...

Still, I wouldn't mind seeing his bat hitting in between Kemp and Loney. And he would not have to be a leader due to my suggestion in 17 . All he would have to do is play.

2007-10-08 14:52:45
117.   CajunDodger
What about Fukudome? Would he play left?
2007-10-08 14:54:00
118.   jasonungar07
Isn't that quote, his reality though?

There wasnt much difference in the way any of them were playing the game. With a month left in the season they obviously didn't know how to win any differently than the month before. It's just a bunch of excuse making.

Your rebuttal and then conclusion was the problem (as u suggest), not the way they were playing the game. Loney was hitting last year and hitting this year. Kemp too. Sure everyone improves and has much to learn, but...

Really the main problem that no one mentions is that for a team built on chemistry, it was sure built poorly. Forgetting the OPS or non OPS of certain guys...but the vets, because according to those in charge, need guiadance and need to learn...well who better to learn from then

Jeff Kent? Shea Hillenbran? David Wells? Loaiza?

Coletti just failed in every aspect you can think of and he blames the youth.

2007-10-08 14:56:35
119.   fanerman
As much as I love Manny, I'd have to say no to him coming to LA. If there's a place Manny can play LF without being a defensive liability, it's Boston.
2007-10-08 14:57:04
120.   KG16
116 - my other concern is that Manny is 35 and should be entering a decline period in his career. Plus, he's had some injury issues the last couple of years.
2007-10-08 14:59:25
121.   StolenMonkey86
103 - Kent's option will vest. If we're really intent on a salary dump, we'd have to do something like throw him in with Pierre in the trade for Jim Edmonds. That would make for a lopsided trade in terms of net value, but we could give PT to our younger players and save money for A-Rod.

But let's temporarily forget that. We're gonna drop Gonzo and Wolf from the payroll, not to mention Tomko and hopefully Hendrickson. That's like $20 million there, and if you're gonna spend an extra $10-$15 million that'll all but guarantee that the Dodgers sell 4,000,000 tickets, then hey, why not, from McCourt's point of view.

2007-10-08 15:00:21
122.   Eric Stephen
103 I read Jon's numbers right, we'd save 8.5 mil by buying out Kent

The Dodgers cannot buyout Kent. His $9m option vested (became guaranteed) when he reached 550 PA this season. The only way they can avoid paying Kent's salary is if they trade him (unlikely) or he retires (more likely, but still not likely).

2007-10-08 15:00:41
123.   Bob Timmermann
Fukudome hasn't played since mid-July for the Chunichi Dragons and it doesn't look like they are going to use him in the postseason. He's had an elbow injury.

He turns 31 next April.

2007-10-08 15:00:44
124.   Telemachos
I have no idea how much value to place in this, but according to Jon Heyman's latest at, A-Rod's preference is still the East Coast, to be closer to his Miami home.... although he's not ruling out the Angels, Dodgers, Giants, and maybe Cubs.
2007-10-08 15:02:01
125.   ToyCannon
Using Hindsite if the given is that Pierre/Gonzo/Nomar/Schmidt/Wolf were all signed.
1. Letting Werth go and keeping Repko instead.
2. Your No 2
3. Your No 3
4. Not bringing up Meloan/Hull in June to see if he would fill the bill as the setup guy when Tsao went down.
5. Trading Betemit because they failed to try/trust their in house setup options.
6. Not giving DJ Houlton a shot at the back end of the rotation after Tomko/Hendrickson flamed and Kuo/Wolf/Schmidt went down.
7. Signing Roberto Hernandez
8. Not releasing Roberto Hernandez
9. Not backing up the kids after Kent went after them, even if they deserved it.

None of these might have resulted in a playoff victory but we would at least know the following.
1. Can DJ succeed in a major league rotation
2. Can Meloan translate his minor league success to the major leagues
3. Can Hull do the same.
4. The kids wouldn't have felt the need to respond themselves if management had the balls to say something 1st.

2007-10-08 15:03:14
126.   The Blue Legend
A-rod is going to flirt with other teams. He'll go so far as to have "formal meetings" where teams will show them why he should go to their team. Once his ego has been stroked he'll turn around and resign with the Yankees.
2007-10-08 15:03:16
127.   regfairfield
117 I don't think Fukudome would be much better than Ethier, plus he's been hurt. Power just doesn't translate well from Japan to America.

Right now, I think that big name Japanese guys are becoming overvalued, but the guys just below them (like Iwamura and Iguchi) are way undervalued.

2007-10-08 15:04:54
128.   ToyCannon
The Cardinals have one of the best CF prospects in baseball. They have no need for JP.

The WhiteSox would be our best hope. They need a CF and they have shown the willingness to spend money on worthless players like Erstadt and Podboy in the past.

The negative side of that is every teams internet sites are looking at their crappy veterans and thinking the Dodgers might want them since we have shown the same tendancies as the White Sox.

2007-10-08 15:05:52
129.   Bob Timmermann
Off topic, but despite the headline, the guy is crazy:

2007-10-08 15:07:39
130.   ToyCannon
Iwamura started out hot but in the end his power was not very impressive. How was he undervalued for an American League 3rd baseman?
2007-10-08 15:08:34
131.   ToyCannon
I was shocked to find the Hockey season had started.
2007-10-08 15:09:56
132.   Ken Noe
121 122 Thanks.

128 The Giants did want him last year, but Sabean swears he's sworn off.

2007-10-08 15:11:49
133.   KG16
129 - wow.
Just wow.

Someone should explain to him that hockey's minor league system works like baseball's minor league system.

2007-10-08 15:14:26
134.   StolenMonkey86
128 - ok, now I'm really pulling for Dave Littlefield to be the new Cards GM
2007-10-08 15:14:36
135.   BlueCrew Bruin
Just a quick point on not allowing 2 teams from the same division to play each other in the first round: I wonder if that has contributed to the number of Wild Card teams that have won the World Series?

I guess it would come down to how many times the WC team comes from the same division as the team with the best record in the league. I would think that in this type of scenario, keeping the WC team away from the team with the league's best record would be an advantage for the WC team.

2007-10-08 15:14:44
136.   silverwidow
Ned will sign a CF and move Pierre to LF. I think it's a virtual lock.
2007-10-08 15:17:29
137.   The Blue Legend
I hope Ned doesn't go after Tori Hunter like it's being reported.,1,1329389.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

2007-10-08 15:17:37
138.   Humma Kavula
136 I hope you're wrong.
2007-10-08 15:18:16
139.   regfairfield
130 He still put up a .359 on base with above average defense for 1.8 million this year (plus a total posting fee of 4.4 million). He was a much better deal than other mid-teir free agents.
2007-10-08 15:24:14
140.   Humma Kavula
137 Only one of the three free agent CFs is likely to majorly out-hit Ethier next year: Jones (and nobody has forgotten that he had an 88 OPS+ this year). The other two, Hunter and Rowand, might out-hit Ethier a little, or be about the same, or be a little worse. In any case, they'll be signed for between $15-20 million, and they will not be worth that money when the Dodgers have Ethier for next-to-nothing.

If one of them signs with the Dodgers and then the Dodgers bench or are able to trade Pierre: more power to 'em. If they move Pierre to left field... surely Colletti, mad as he is, isn't crazy enough to do that.

2007-10-08 15:25:17
141.   Daniel Zappala
I can't remember where I heard it, but I liked the suggestion to expand the wild card to two teams in each league, then have the wild card teams play each other in a one-game playoff to see who qualifies. This gives the division winners a big advantage because they get to start their #1 guy in the first game, and their bullpen is rested. It prevents situations like this year, where who won the NL East became irrelevant at some point.
2007-10-08 15:25:32
142.   ToyCannon
He'll be even a better deal at 2nd base if he can make the transition. I didn't realize his salary was so low. The one I saw must have had his posting fee included.
2007-10-08 15:25:48
143.   silverwidow
140 - I'm not advocating the move one way or another, but I wouldn't be upset to see Pierre's terrible arm out of CF.
2007-10-08 15:28:05
144.   ToyCannon
At this point, Ned is crazy enough to do anything. He's a madman with spittle flying in every direction as he tries to right his wrongs, but like any embezzler who is out of control he'll only dig himself a deeper hole.
2007-10-08 15:30:48
145.   Humma Kavula
141 I hate the one-game playoff. Even the '98 Devil Rays beat the '98 Yankees once. I know that championships have very little to do with determining which team is better, but still, putting systems in place that actively work against that goal would frustrate me.

Also, out of curiosity: what if the final standings look like this?

90-72 Mets
90-72 Cardinals
90-72 Dodgers
89-73 Padres
88-74 Rockies
88-74 Brewers
88-74 Phillies

Do you hold a round-robin to decide which of the Rockies, Brewers, and Phillies get to play the Padres for the WC? What if each team goes 1-1?

2007-10-08 15:31:57
146.   Humma Kavula
143 Getting Pierre's arm out of center is a laudable goal, but putting it in left? The cure is worse than the disease.
2007-10-08 15:33:54
147.   Bob Timmermann
In the situation described above and there were two wild cards, the bottom three teams would likely play a three-way tiebreaker to decide the winner.
2007-10-08 15:34:46
148.   regfairfield
146 My thinking is this:

Pierre is going to play every day no matter what.

Assuming Dunn isn't on the market, there's no good corner outfielders out there.

Since Pierre is playing everyday, he might as well be where he'll do the least damage.

It's easier to get a new left fielder than a new centerfielder if we ever decide to rid ourselves of him.

2007-10-08 15:35:21
149.   silverwidow
146 - Furcal is the key to putting Pierre in LF. All Juan has to do is hit the cutoff man.
2007-10-08 15:38:44
150.   BlueCrew Bruin
I would be in favor of cutting the season back to 154 games and making the first round a best-of-seven series. I'd also be in favor of having home field advantage for the WS determined strictly by regular season record but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon either.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-08 15:40:46
151.   bhsportsguy
150 Its hard to ask some of the more successful teams to give up the revenue of 3-4 home games for extending the first round playoffs that only affects a few teams.
2007-10-08 15:45:11
152.   Humma Kavula
148 I agree on the first three points, but to my thinking, LF already needs an upgrade. Replacing Ethier in the lineup with a more expensive Ethier that can play CF and moving Pierre to LF is simply paying $15 million plus for the same production. It does not improve the Dodgers.

In fact, moving Pierre to LF necessitates another move -- replacing Pierre with someone who can hit -- and the Dodgers might not have the dollars for that.

I don't want to violate Rule 8, but I'm not convinced. I still think that Pierre does the least damage in CF -- terrible arm and all -- because the Dodgers get to keep their money.

2007-10-08 15:46:07
153.   BlueCrew Bruin
151 Yeah, I don't expect it to happen. I'd still like to see the first round be a best-of-seven but it would be hard to do that and keep the season at 162 games and get the World Series in the books before mid-November.
2007-10-08 15:46:42
154.   Humma Kavula
149 But Furcal at SS doesn't help Juan's bat. That is the issue with playing him in LF. It also doesn't help Hunter/Rowand/Jones outhit Ethier, which they might or might not do, for $15 million more than Ethier costs.
2007-10-08 15:49:58
155.   LogikReader
154 and before

If NedCo tries to pull any of this, I will honestly not be disappointed to see the Dodgers finish in 4th place for 2008.

I ran through the FA sheet and basically arrived at most of the same conclusions. Why spend money to ride a treadmill?

2007-10-08 15:50:54
156.   Humma Kavula
147 I guess I'm not clear on how a three-way playoff works. I thought it was round robin.... obviously not.
2007-10-08 15:52:22
157.   silverwidow
Pierre would obviously be a terrible offensive LF, but he's the guy with a big contract; not Ethier. I also don't hear that many raves from the front office about Andre. Perhaps they view him as a complimentary player; he's certainly not the future star that Kemp is.
2007-10-08 15:52:54
158.   ToyCannon
Maybe some serious snow on Oct 28th in Colorado, followed by more snow in Cleveland from Nov 1st-3rd will change their opinions.

As much as I dislike the extended rosters in Sept, that emotion pales to having to watch playoff baseball in frigid weather. If you think the bugs were bad, wait until the weather changes off of Lake Erie.

Who wouldn't want to see baseball players turn into icicles standing around the diamond at midnight so the West Coast gets the game in prime time.

2007-10-08 15:54:18
159.   Humma Kavula
155 Oh, I'll still be disappointed. It'll just be in line with my predictions.

Plus, the Dodgers are likely to be a little better this year, playing Billingsly, Kemp, and Loney from opening day. Also, if Ethier is then expendable, who knows who Colletti will be able to get for him. That could improve the team, too.

That said, the Rockies, D-Backs, and Padres are also all likely to be better... so maybe 4th place is where the Dodgers will end up if Pierre is in left.

2007-10-08 15:55:02
160.   Bob Timmermann
The three-way playoff works this way:
One team is the #1 team and gets the option of playing one road game or two home games. The other two teams play off. The #1 team (which should opt for one road game) plays at the winner of the first game.
2007-10-08 15:57:06
161.   Humma Kavula
157 Agree completely. I am also not sold on Ethier. I just think he brings, very roughly speaking, the same bat as Hunter or Rowand... so I'm not sure why Ned would take him out of the lineup and put in somebody else that hits the same but costs so much more.

I say, stick with Ethier for another year, and then, when a free agent bat is available, replace him with somebody who can actually out-hit him.

2007-10-08 15:59:46
162.   jasonungar07
Humma Kavula....Honest question..did u watch all the games last year?
2007-10-08 15:59:51
163.   MJW101
The solution to the power problem is to trade for Raul Ibenez (Seattle). He may not be any better than Gonzo in LF defensively, but he would provide more power than Gonzo or Ethier.

Apparently, the Mariners are looking to move him (?). He gets $5.5M in 2008. His VORP is 31.3.

Of the others available:

Rowand - low OBP, high Ks
Crawford - low BB, high Ks, low power
Burrell - poor avg
Alou - Gonzo II

Rios would be nice, but expensive in terms of prospects.

2007-10-08 16:00:37
164.   D4P
I'm not sure why Ned would take him out of the lineup and put in somebody else that hits the same but costs so much more

Because it sends a message to certain people that Ned is "trying", and that McCourt is willing to spend money.

From what I can tell, GMs rarely lose their jobs over bad contracts per se.

2007-10-08 16:00:48
165.   Dodgers49
40. Hence, Mike Lowell. The trouble with Colletti is he appears to think "doing something" is always preferable to doing nothing

When I was in the military we used to pass the time by playing cards. When someone would take longer than normal to make up his mind someone would usually say, "Do something, even if it's wrong." :-) That's what worries me about Colletti. I have the feeling he will feel the need to do something this off season. Even if it's wrong. :-)

2007-10-08 16:03:51
166.   jasonungar07
One big-money club not expected to make a play for Jones is the Dodgers, who have a chilly relationship with Boras created partly by the J.D. Drew affair last year. ...

RF Matt Kemp was a main source of the erosion in the Dodgers' clubhouse because his flamboyant style irritated veterans. The talented Kemp, 23, has yet to grasp all of the game's nuances. ...;_ylt=Alfs52Au14u3fe7xg.imfBqFCLcF?slug=insidedishmoveovertejada&prov=tsn&type=lgns

2007-10-08 16:05:16
167.   Humma Kavula
162 Entering Jim Tracy mode, to try to parse your question.

Did I watch 162 games? No, I did not.

How many did I watch? Don't know. I would guess parts of 90 or 100.

Did I watch enough of 'em to know that Pierre's arm is completely useless in CF? You betcha.

Have I blocked those out of my memory? Nope.

Do I think the Dodgers have other problems, in addition to Pierre's arm, that could be addressed by spending money? Yes, I do.

Do I think that Pierre's arm is the greatest of these problems and deserves a $15 million fix? No.

End Jim Tracy mode.

2007-10-08 16:05:54
168.   D4P
In fact, I might go so far as to conjecture that bad contracts are good for GM job security, because of the overall message they send that the GM is trying to bring in "good" players and that the owner will spare no expense in putting a winning team on the field.
2007-10-08 16:06:26
169.   Frip
So Bon Jovi is now America's band. How did it come to this? What the hell's the matter with us.
2007-10-08 16:09:52
170.   Telemachos
"Flamboyant style"?
2007-10-08 16:10:47
171.   Bob Timmermann
His real name is Lastings Kemp.
2007-10-08 16:12:00
172.   D4P
Granted, I don't watch many games, but I've never seen one iota of flamboyance in Matt Kemp. Attention deficit disorder? Perhaps. Lackadaisy? Probably. But flamboyance?


2007-10-08 16:14:18
173.   jasonungar07
Thats fair. Just wanting to get where you are coming from. I disagree however which is fine. I don't think you can win with a CF like Pierre on defense unless we were a high powered offense.

I don't think we have enough offense next year with Ethier in LF and Pierre in CF and Kemp in RF unless there is a serious upgrade someplace..

I hope I am wrong.

2007-10-08 16:15:37
174.   Scanman33
172-Reading that makes me think that Kemp paraded around the clubhouse like Richard Simmons, all the way down to the short shorts.
2007-10-08 16:17:09
175.   KG16
Honest question, how many power hitters do we really need?

I'm looking at the possible evolution of the younger players for next year. Martin is likely going to continue to develop as a fairly decent power hitting catcher (20-25 HR). Loney and Kemp will likely develop into more stable sources of power. Doesn't it make sense to have a guy like Ethier (essentially a line drive hitter that gets on base fairly well) to set the table for these guys? Yes, I'm saying Ethier would be a great #2 hitter next year behind Furcal.

Plus, assuming we don't land A-Rod, isn't LaRoche supposed to develop into decent power hitter, right?

Pierre would be less annoying in the 7-8 spot. Even if his defense is annoying.

2007-10-08 16:17:46
176.   Andrew Shimmin
Kemp probably wears double breasted suits with peaked lapels.
2007-10-08 16:21:38
177.   LogikReader
Kemp was so flamboyant they couldn't tell the difference between him and his _______

[play goofy music]

2007-10-08 16:22:16
178.   Humma Kavula
175 I agree with all of that.

I'll answer your question honestly: how many power hitters do we really need? One more, if that power hitter is among the very best hitters in the game. None more if he isn't.

Again, I don't want to violate Rule 8, but the beauty of the A-Rod or Nobody Scenario is that it offers, right in its name, a beautiful alternative to A-Rod if he's not available or you can't get him.

2007-10-08 16:23:12
179.   jasonungar07
I know huh! Flamboyant style...gosh I swear I am so bummed that our management, even if true as toy cannon said, let this stuff go to press.

Of course then I would have to not belive it hasn't been put there on purpose.

2007-10-08 16:23:43
180.   D4P
Richard Simmons : Fitness :: Jeff Kent : Veteran Leadership
2007-10-08 16:24:55
181.   jasonungar07
Humma I am firmly with your rule 8 violation thought...
2007-10-08 16:25:46
182.   Bob Timmermann
From Gammons Insider blog posting today:

"Fourth, if you want to play young players, you'd better have the right veteran players to support them. Look at what happened with the Dodgers down the stretch. Hmmm. Luis Gonzalez raised a ruckus in Arizona when Carlos Quentin arrived, and his refusal to accept that times they are a-changin' ran him out of that franchise and into a similar mess in L.A. The Diamondbacks' veterans like Tony Clark, Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson and Livan Hernandez have been support nets for all the young teammates, as Trot Nixon, Casey Blake and Paul Byrd have done in Cleveland. Monday night, Johnny Damon acknowledged "our season started to turn when Melky got in there every day."

2007-10-08 16:26:11
183.   Andrew Shimmin
180- There's a Jamie McCourt joke in there, somewhere, but it's not coming to me.
2007-10-08 16:27:36
184.   Humma Kavula
181 Right. Let's change the subject.

As we prepare for the arrival of Spawn of Kavula....

Does anybody know a good pediatrician in the south bay? We found one we like in Torrance, but it's far from where we live. Manhattan, Hermosa, or El Segundo would be better.

2007-10-08 16:29:32
185.   Humma Kavula
184 That should say Manhattan, North Redondo or El Segundo. Hermosa would not be much improvement.
2007-10-08 16:32:52
186.   CajunDodger
I wonder why there is no buzz for Bobby Abreu. I know that his power is down, but a .908 lifetime OPS and a lifetime OPS+ of 135 wouldn't be bad. Plus, since he is 33, we could get away with a 1-2 year deal instead of 4-5 for someone else. 2 years $28 million or 3/$39 million would work.

Kemp in Left/Center, Pierre in Center, Abreu in Right. Hmmm...

2007-10-08 16:33:50
187.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder if Bon Jovi gets royalties every time they play that HORRIBLE SONG I'm pretty sure they do right...
2007-10-08 16:37:58
188.   regfairfield
186 It would probably take a lot to get him and he's declined hard the last two years. That contract could easily become an albatross.
2007-10-08 16:42:18
189.   Humma Kavula
186 This year, Abreu's OBP and SLG are both down 50 points off his career avgs. But you're right -- his career production is so impressive that you can't just write him off.

If I were the GM, I would find out his price. If he's really available for 2/28 or 3/39, and if the Very Smart People that I would ask about him think that this is just a down year for him or if it's indicative of bigger problems.

If he's affordable, and if this is just a down year according to the Very Smart People, then yeah, I'll get on board with a short deal for Abreu.

2007-10-08 16:45:53
190.   Humma Kavula
Abreu's OBP last year was 424 (career avg 408). Sure, his SLG was down (462; career avg 500), but he was still very valuable last year.

It's this year that he's way off (369/445).

2007-10-08 16:47:09
191.   Jim Hitchcock
Was that the Ghost of Bill Buckner in the Cleveland outfield last night?
2007-10-08 16:50:35
192.   regfairfield
189 True, but his slug was way down (at least with Philly). I remember reading that years wear walk rate surges and power drops are a sign of bad things to come, but I can't find my source on that.
2007-10-08 16:53:11
193.   regfairfield
189 Actually, now that I look at it, he was fine last year. The huge hit he took at age 33 makes me very worried, however.
2007-10-08 16:57:23
194.   Dodgers49
175. Pierre would be less annoying in the 7-8 spot. Even if his defense is annoying.

Or, we could hire La Russa who would bat Pierre 9th. :-)

2007-10-08 17:00:00
195.   Humma Kavula
193 Agreed. With that in mind, a couple of givens, and then a question:

1. Given that Andre Ethier puts up something like an 800-825 OPS next year; and
2. Given that the going rate for Abreu in a multi-year deal is somewhere between 13-14 million; then...

...based on Abreu's career 900 OPS, and bearing in mind his drop-off last year, would you be for or against overpaying for a one-year deal -- say, $16 million -- with an option on the second year?

2007-10-08 17:00:58
196.   CajunDodger
It makes me wonder if he wouldn't do well in an environment that was a bit more friendly. With only Simers and Plaschke to give you grief, our media are nothing compared with the Philly and NY medias.

He would seem like an ideal #5 to hit in between Kent and Martin to me. He still has legs (with 25 SB and a 75% rate) and is a good fielder.

We could do a lot worse. If Ned has to "do something" I would prefer him to, say, Jones or Hunter and he would probably cost a LOT less.

2007-10-08 17:03:13
197.   CajunDodger
I would always rather overpay for short term rather than pay market long term. Schmidt doesn't look too bad because he is not here until 2012.

I give Ned credit for signing for more money and fewer years. He just isn't too good lately at picking the right guys.

2007-10-08 17:03:53
198.   Bob Timmermann
You wouldn't have to worry about Abreu hurting himself on the RF scoreboard.

Abreu is made of a substance that repels outfield walls.

But there could then be two Abreus on the team and we'd be confused.

2007-10-08 17:05:35
199.   regfairfield
195 Assuming we traded Ethier for a decent young pitcher in the Joe Blanton/Scott Baker mold, and we could get Abreu for at most two years, I'd have no problem with getting him. If either of those things don't work out, I wouldn't touch him.
2007-10-08 17:05:42
200.   dzzrtRatt
198 Abreii?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-08 17:09:12
201.   Humma Kavula
197 and 199 Motion carried.

Dear Mr. Colletti:

Really, I advocate doing nothing, but if you can't handle that we understand. So:

Go first for A-Rod, and when (not if!) he is not available, get Bobby Abreu for a one-year deal with an option on a second year.

If you get Mike Lowell or do the other thing that caused me to violate Rule 8, well then... I will boo you from my home in beautiful Hawthorne.

Sincerely yours,

Humma Kavula

2007-10-08 17:09:44
202.   bhsportsguy
The Yankees have a team option for Abreu for 2008, exercise it for $16 million or buy out for $2 million.

I think they exercise it for one more year.

2007-10-08 17:11:33
203.   bhsportsguy
BTW - Scott Wolf says that Booty is not throwing in practice and has a splint on his finger.
2007-10-08 17:14:29
204.   Humma Kavula
202 Too bad. Just when I had softened my position, the cold, hard facts got in the way.

If I were the Yankees, I would definitely pick up that option. With $2 million sunk no matter what, it's really Abreu for $14 million, which is the right price to see if he comes back.

2007-10-08 17:14:34
205.   BlueCrew Bruin
Why are the Yankee announcers so amazed that the Indians are playing well against the Yankees? I mean, I know that the Yankees dominated Cleveland during the regular season but come on, they are a playoff caliber team and they do actually have good players.
2007-10-08 17:16:11
206.   Telemachos
203 I think the Booty's fractured finger provides the perfect excuse to start Sanchez this Saturday. USC can always claim that John David's still the starter, but that he's injured and unable to play. Best solution for everyone -- Booty gets to save face and USC gets to play (possibly) their best QB.

btw, Wang has completely melted down. He lasted 1+ inning.... Mussina in with the bases loaded and no out.

2007-10-08 17:17:26
207.   regfairfield
206 See, I knew those perhiperals would catch up to him at some point :).
2007-10-08 17:17:28
208.   regfairfield
206 See, I knew those perhiperals would catch up to him at some point :).
2007-10-08 17:18:17
209.   Jim Hitchcock
No pressure, Joe Torre.
2007-10-08 17:19:25
210.   regfairfield
Of course, Paul Byrd is facing the Yankees, so the Indians need a nine run cushion.
2007-10-08 17:20:56
211.   Jim Hitchcock
At this rate, that may be in the cards.
2007-10-08 17:23:06
212.   BlueCrew Bruin
210 Very true and the NY announcers are certainly taking enough shots at Paul Byrd.
2007-10-08 17:23:23
213.   D4P
No pressure, Joe Torre

I bet Joe could not "work" another day in his life and be just fine.

2007-10-08 17:24:50
214.   Jim Hitchcock
He could write a book, The Bronx is Burning II.
2007-10-08 17:27:57
215.   ToyCannon
With the Indians winning in 4 it added a nice little dimension to the True Blue contest as several teams were able to add a point.

Paul Scott is ahead after the 1st round with 22 points. He will need the Rockies to win the World Series and that could be a tough road to hoe, once they start playing AL teams.

2007-10-08 17:30:18
216.   Humma Kavula
With the Indians winning in 4 it added

past tense?

2007-10-08 17:34:08
217.   regfairfield
If Paul Byrd can make it a through a lineup that's pretty much designed to destroy Paul Byrd, it will be a hell of a performance.
2007-10-08 17:35:21
218.   Bumsrap
If the Dodgers told Kent that Abreu will be the starting 2b and tell Pierre that Kemp will be the starting cf with Young in lf and Ethier in rf, maybe things would take care of themselves. Kent and Pierre could ask the Dodgers if they could be free agents and the Dodgers could say, sure.
2007-10-08 17:39:54
219.   bhsportsguy
218 The Dodgers owe Juan Pierre $37-38 million for 4 years guaranteed, short of designated him for assignment, there is no way for the Dodgers to get rid of him unless he is traded.

Kent will surely ask about the direction of the team and his playing time before he decides on accepting his option, if he comes back, those issues will already be dealt with.

2007-10-08 17:39:55
220.   Andrew Shimmin
Why does Fieldin Culbreth hate the Griddle so much that he would refuse to call catcher's interference where it was clearly warranted?
2007-10-08 17:41:15
221.   regfairfield
219 The option is already vested, at this point it would be like Kent declining a team option.
2007-10-08 17:42:00
222.   ToyCannon
Ned is our GM. There is a bigger chance that the outfield would be Jaque Jones, Tori Hunter, and Juan Pierre with an infield of Loney, Kent, Furcal, and Lowell then of any kid being handed a job headed into 2008.

Maybe Kemp is the 2nd coming of Glenn Burke, I mean when you break out the word flamboyant what are you really saying?

2007-10-08 17:43:22
223.   Humma Kavula
219 221 Right, can Kent even decline the option? Should we even use the word "option" to discuss Kent? He is simply under contract for next year, yes?

That said, he could request a trade.

2007-10-08 17:44:14
224.   silverwidow
222 - Remember, Ned loves batting average. So Jacque Jones over Kemp will never happen.
2007-10-08 17:45:10
225.   Andrew Shimmin
219- He could get caught doing something so horrible that the MLBPA would be too ashamed to defend him when the team tried to void his contract. Like ritual human sacrifice; which, that would be a twofer, since it would give Nomar a way of being useful, too.
2007-10-08 17:47:07
226.   Andrew Shimmin
I hope the clubhouse attendant who agreed to get the umpires six quarts of absinthe before the game is proud of himself.
2007-10-08 17:47:09
227.   regfairfield
223 Yep. Jeff Kent is under contract for nine million dollars next year, neither the Dodgers or Kent can do a thing about it.
2007-10-08 17:50:13
228.   Dodgers49
Ken Gurnick's Mailbag:

1). If there is anything to the criticism from veterans like Jeff Kent that the younger players just don't get it, what's the solution? Why are teams like Arizona and Colorado able to win during youth movements?

2). Who are some Dodgers prospects to watch for next season?

3). Which Dodgers are free agents this offseason?

4). Can you envision Kent agreeing to be traded to another contender, in light of recent turmoil?

5). What's going on with the Dodgers' medical department, in light of the firing of long-time trainer Stan Johnston?

6). Are the Dodgers getting their fair share of the young talent coming out of universities and colleges in California, particularly Southern California?

7). Are any Dodgers involved in the World Cup?

2007-10-08 17:50:45
229.   Humma Kavula
225 He could also commit seppuku. Does anyone have a tanto?
2007-10-08 17:54:08
230.   Dodgers49
222. Maybe Kemp is the 2nd coming of Glenn Burke, I mean when you break out the word flamboyant what are you really saying?

Oh, oh. So that's why Kent doesn't like him. :-)

2007-10-08 17:56:33
231.   Orly Yarly NoWai
Yeesh. I don't suppose you guys want to take herm and dzzrtRatz back? They're not representing you well.
2007-10-08 17:59:31
232.   xaphor
Go Indians! :)
2007-10-08 18:11:34
233.   Bob Timmermann
One of them isn't coming back.
2007-10-08 18:31:34
234.   bhsportsguy
233 UCLA may have to use the Wishbone offense from this point on.

From a reliable source:
UCLA quarterback Ben Olson has a partial tear of the lateral collateral ligament in his left knee. As a precaution, Olson will have an arthroscopy on his left knee on Tuesday to check for a possible tear of the lateral meniscus (cartilage). An estimate on his return will not be known until after the procedure.

2007-10-08 18:36:42
235.   Bob Timmermann
A few years back when Cory Paus was struggling (which was most of the time), a guy sitting behind me at the Rose Bowl kept calling for Matt Ware to play QB.
2007-10-08 18:39:06
236.   LogikReader
Part of the beauty of this Yankee "collapse" is that it cuts out McBuck from glossing over the mystique and greatness of the Yankees in a playoff series.

For reference: McBuck = Joe Buck/Tim McCarver

2007-10-08 18:47:54
237.   bhsportsguy
236 I think going to playoffs for 12 straight years and winning more World Series than anyone else by far, gives them their due regardless of what any announcer says.

Unfortunately, the mystique did not mean that those great players came back and played for this Yankee team.

2007-10-08 19:00:23
238.   bhsportsguy
One of the greatest "athletes" I ever saw died today. John Henry was put down today at Kentucky Horse Park at the age of 32.

I saw him run at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park and even though I could only win 5 cents to the dollar, you had to bet on him to win those big races.

Sleep well John Henry, you were great one in your day.

2007-10-08 19:00:24
239.   WillieD
41 That's a pretty good analogy.
2007-10-08 19:01:38
240.   willhite
Anyone know if George S. and Dusty Baker have any kind of relationship? I could definitely see Dusty as the next Yankee mgr.
2007-10-08 19:03:17
241.   Sam DC
238 Thanks for passing that on. I saw him at SA and Hollywood several times as well.
2007-10-08 19:08:55
242.   Sam DC
John Henry info:
2007-10-08 19:19:55
243.   Eric Stephen
Wow, Bronx Banter is at roughly a bajillionty posts.
2007-10-08 19:37:49
244.   KG16
Just spitballin' as I watch this series, but one has to wonder if Jeter might be available via trade after this run of GIDP.
2007-10-08 19:39:23
245.   LogikReader
No doubt, bhsportsguy, that the Yankees have definitely earned their respect by sustaining runs to the playoffs for over a decade.

My statement, of course, was about the greatness during the playoffs, which lately has been overrated.

I was hoping they'd still win (the Yankees) so Torre could keep his job :(

2007-10-08 19:49:22
246.   Bob Timmermann
In a word,
2007-10-08 19:58:42
247.   Gen3Blue
Someone asked if the Yanks were a force of nature once they started hitting, and I feared they were. So to hopefully counterract my fear by stating it.--- Yes now the Yanks hitting will destroy everyone, right through the World series.
2007-10-08 19:59:13
248.   dzzrtRatt
231 I've been polite to my hosts. I'm enjoying the banter.

Don't group me with herm. He was an embarrassment.

2007-10-08 20:02:04
249.   Gen3Blue
244 He would be 4rth in desirabily behind Furcal, Hu and Rodriguez, in my opinion.
2007-10-08 20:11:41
250.   das411
153 - Is there any reason why MLB cannot just schedule (split, gotta have that $$) doubleheaders once a month, end the season a week earlier, and make room for those 2 extra NLDS games?

198 - AMEN! I would seriously consider flying out to LA just to see a Dodger outfield of Dunn, Pierre, and Abreu, just purely for the comedic value.

215 - "He will need the Rockies to win the World Series and that could be a tough road to hoe, once they start playing AL teams."

Does anyone else think we have major problems if the Rockies play more than one AL team this month? ;)

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-10-08 20:13:21
251.   KG16
249 - maybe we could get him to play 2nd?
2007-10-08 20:21:57
252.   Bob Timmermann
The only way Derek Jeter stops playing shortstop is if he volunteers to move to another position.

Cal Ripken was easier to move away from shortstop.

2007-10-08 20:23:36
253.   Bob Timmermann
Even split doubleheaders aren't all that popular with teams. You have to pay all the support people to stay around the park for an entire day and you probably run into some overtime issues.

And I don't think fans today really like doubleheaders. Most of us here would find it great, but we're not most fans.

2007-10-08 20:30:04
254.   KG16
250 - the Rockies will be on such a tear they'll just challenge the entire AL to running best of seven series.

"We beat Boston, bring on Cleveland, Anaheim, and then New York. After that, we'll take Detroit, Minnesota, Oakland... whoever!"

2007-10-08 20:32:59
255.   Gen3Blue
Darn, I think this guy who just struck out was one of our prospects who we traded to get Milton-Bradley.
Well, perhaps better to get right to the bottom of the ninth. Go Cleveland. Please!
2007-10-08 20:33:16
256.   Gen3Blue
Darn, I think this guy who just struck out was one of our prospects who we traded to get Milton-Bradley.
Well, perhaps better to get right to the bottom of the ninth. Go Cleveland. Please!
2007-10-08 20:34:17
257.   Gen3Blue
What a software trap!
2007-10-08 20:37:17
258.   KG16
just clicked over to Blue Notes where they graded the hitters for the year. They gave Kemp a B+ and said it's lower for glove work and base running - there was no mention of Kent's base running blunders, though he only got a C+/B- grade
2007-10-08 20:39:16
259.   Gen3Blue
The Yanks just killed one rally there. With that rally killing HR.
2007-10-08 20:42:37
260.   KG16
All is right in the world... go tribe
2007-10-08 20:44:31
261.   regfairfield
So, how can we blame A-Rod for this?
2007-10-08 20:45:24
262.   KG16
261 - when he finally hit a home run, there was no one on base, worthless solo homer, that.
2007-10-08 20:46:31
263.   Reiichi
Congrats to Jon for being the 1 of 11 SI experts who correctly picked the 4 teams to pass the first round.
2007-10-08 20:48:00
264.   regfairfield
262 There we go. I put the over under on the first blame it all on A-Rod at four hours.

As a nice life lesson: Two Buck Chuck: good for cooking, not so much for drinking.

2007-10-08 20:53:03
265.   regfairfield
Another life lesson: cooking by measuring via packages isn't a great unit. There's not a good way to covert between "thing of ground beef" versus "thing of spaghetti sauce".

I think I'm going to be dead within the next six months.

2007-10-08 20:54:02
266.   bhsportsguy
264 That's what we say in cooking class.

263 Boston will be favored but not in a walkover. I think most will favor the Rockies, though Arizona plays well at home and the Rockies, winning streak aside, do not play well on the road. But if they continue to hit and their bullpen does the job, a Sam Adams vs. Coors Light series could come to fruition.

2007-10-08 20:56:40
267.   Gen3Blue
I had admitted, when the Yanks won yesterday, that their hitting had woke up, and they were going to the wire.

I am so glad to be wrong; I would be glad to look like an A-hole. I am delighted the way it went. Ya hooooo!

2007-10-08 20:57:09
268.   KG16
264 - 4 hours? Baseball Tonight is on before that, isn't it?
2007-10-08 20:57:45
269.   dzzrtRatt
I had no idea Yankee fans were so emotional.

I've never gotten how anyone could be a Yankee fan, given all the money they spend, it's like rooting for a bully to win a fight. But the fans over at Bronx Banter might as well be rooting for a struggling high school football team to win their last game of the year. They really identify with the Yankees and they wear their hearts on their sleeves.

We Dodger fans are a lot more guarded. I think we care just as much, but don't want to show it. We also expect to be disappointed, so we're a little cooler when it turns out like we expect.

2007-10-08 20:59:16
270.   underdog
Since Fukudome was mentioned earlier, mlbtraderumors indicates in a new post that the Padres plan to push hard for him. For what that's worth. Also a note before that about the Dodgers being considered one of possible destinations for Andruw Jones, for what that's worth, which is probably even less.

But if Jones were in CF, and Pierre (whom we're most likely stuck with) were moved to left, and then presumably Ethier were traded (or made 4th outfielder?), would that be a better outfield than we had this year? I'd argue yes defensively (obviously) and probably slightly better offensively, but probably also not worth the expen$e.

2007-10-08 21:00:26
271.   Gen3Blue
I'm a genuine old Dodger fan. There's only two things I really love--- watching the Dodgers win or watching the Yankees lose.
2007-10-08 21:00:52
272.   underdog
269 Yeah and that expectation has come from essentially the last 19 years of nothingness (which doesn't compare to the Cubs' plight, or the Rangers for that matter) but it's still part of the psychology of disappointment.

But my expectations for next year will still be high, despite the division's improvement.

2007-10-08 21:06:26
273.   dzzrtRatt
272 Mine too. But I'm always mindful of the looming snafu on the horizon. After those 19 years, and quite a few of the years before that. We seem to have a Joba-and-the-bugs moment at least once a season.
2007-10-08 21:12:35
274.   Bob Timmermann
I think that's a general East Coast/West Coast way of approaching things.
2007-10-08 21:13:23
275.   Benjamin Miracord
273 "Joba-and-the-bugs"? That was a hit for Elton John, wasn't it?
2007-10-08 21:15:30
276.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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