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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Burrowing Boroughs
2007-10-19 08:09
by Jon Weisman

Ken Davidoff of Newsday raises the possibility of disentangled Yankees manager Joe Torre coming from the Bronx to Chavez Ravine to replace Grady Little, then gets an anonymous Dodger insider to dismiss the idea:

There are currently three teams, not counting the Yankees, looking for managers: the Cardinals, Pirates and Royals.

Forget about the Pirates and Royals. The Cardinals, to the contrary, would present great appeal to Torre. He is immensely popular in St. Louis, thanks to his terms as a player (1969-74) and manager (1990-95). Hall of Famer Bob Gibson, who is on the Cardinals' payroll, is probably Torre's best friend in baseball.

But the Cards appear likely to bring back Tony La Russa for a 13th season, so that's probably out.

Would any team jettison its current manager to go after Torre? Here's a guess for conspiracy theorists: the Dodgers. Owner Frank McCourt is a Boston native, so he knows all about Torre. Current manager Grady Little is under scrutiny for a tough 2007 season, during which the young and veteran players failed to peacefully coexist.

Imagine the Dodgers bringing in a Brooklyn native to end their World Series title drought of 19 seasons. That would strike a blow in the Southern California public relations battle with the Angels. And Torre could hang out with Billy Crystal and other Hollywood types.

Alas, on the condition of anonymity, an official intimately familiar with the Dodgers shot down that idea yesterday, vowing that the club would stay with Little. But keep an eye on the situation.

Meanwhile, Times editorial researcher Paul Thornton suggests, in the shadow of the team's 50th anniversary celebration of its arrival in Los Angeles, that the Dodgers are truly getting back to their Brooklyn roots ...

Maybe the Dodgers' two decades of mediocrity is just a return to form. After all, the Brooklyn Dodgers didn't win a World Series until 1955 — their seventh decade as a franchise — finally knocking off the hated New York Yankees. Then-owner Walter O'Malley plucked the Dodgers from their borough in 1957 and moved west; the L.A. Dodgers played their first season in 1958 at the L.A. Coliseum — and began winning in a hurry.

In just the team's second season on the West Coast, the Dodgers won the 1959 World Series — spoiling Angelenos with an accomplishment that took Brooklynites several generations to enjoy. The Dodgers won it all again in 1963. And '65. Again in '81. And '88. The team appeared in the Fall Classic three more times in the 1970s and also 1966. For 30 out of the team's 100-plus years, the Dodgers and their L.A. fans gorged themselves in Yankee-like victory and established a so-called "tradition of excellence."

A short-lived tradition, we might now add. Perhaps the Dodgers' move west didn't take the Brooklyn blood out of the Hollywood-adjacent Dodgers after all. Fifty years later, the Dodgers are finally the Bums once more.

2007-10-19 08:58:57
1.   BlueCrew Bruin
I could actually see McCourt making a move for some star power with Torre. Practically speaking, I wonder if he is much different from Grady.

Jumping back to the previous topic (sorry, by the time I caught up with all the posts I hit the NPUT...great stuff by all), my earliest Dodger memory is Jack Clark's homer in the '85 playoffs. I was 7. Mostly, I remember my dad's reaction: groaning and throwing his hands up in disgust. I think I learned a few new words that day as well. :)

Despite that, I think I have to credit my Dodger fandom to Steve Sax's sex appeal. My aunt had a huge crush on him and she would take me to several Dodger games a year in hopes of getting a closer look at him.

2007-10-19 09:01:37
2.   BlueCrew Bruin
I also remember The Wizard's homer in those '85 playoffs. Did the network play some sappy song about miracles over the closing credits or something after that game?
2007-10-19 09:07:14
3.   GoBears
Wow, that's just the worst kind of substance-free speculation. McCourt is from Boston, so he knows about Torre? Who the heck doesn't know about Torre? Torre could hang out with Billy Crystal? Huh? He'd come to hang with a Yankee fan? Then, Davidoff decides to go and ask someone "intimately familiar" and when he's told it's a non-starter, he concludes that it could happen.

Seems like being a sportswriter is not that hard as long as you don't care about reality.

2007-10-19 09:12:30
4.   GoBears
Wow, that's just the worst kind of substance-free speculation. McCourt is from Boston, so he knows about Torre? Who the heck doesn't know about Torre? Torre could hang out with Billy Crystal? Huh? He'd come to hang with a Yankee fan? Then, Davidoff decides to go and ask someone "intimately familiar" and when he's told it's a non-starter, he concludes that it could happen.

Seems like being a sportswriter is not that hard as long as you don't care about reality.

2007-10-19 09:13:12
5.   GoBears
Weird. Didn't show up, then showed up twice.

Sorry 'bout that.

2007-10-19 09:31:15
6.   kinbote
next year figures to be a strange type of transition year (how many of these in a row can we have?). kent, furcal, & nomar figure to man the infield before vacating in 2009. lowe will end his run as well. if we stick to the plan of developing our own stars, we could be really good in another 2-3 years. if we deviate and resort to adding veterans, we're going to be passed by half the league.

lock up martin & bills this offseason. those are about the only moves i want to see.

2007-10-19 09:31:36
7.   SgtWyatt
Ya know, I have been talking about the Dodgers bringing on Torre as manager since the 2006 season when there was talk aout Torre being forced out by the Yankees. I think that his management style is just what the team needs. I understand that McCort is trying to return to the loyalty days of the O'Malley's but c'mon, you gotta put your stock in somethig worth standing by. Grady was a horrible manager in Boston and he's a horrible manager here. Fans dislike him, players dislike him, he just can't get the job done. He needs to go back to the minors.

Bringing Torre on would not only put a spark in the clubhouse, but I think it would also open the door for aquiring a certain start third basemean, if you know who I nean. ;)

WAKE UP FRANK MCCORT!!!!! Dodger fans are patient but only if you're trying. Grady Little doesn't have anything but hay between his ears and Ned Colleti manages with black and white baseball cards.

Ya know, the Dodgers last year reminded me of Mr. Burns when he was asking Smithers to find him ringers. "Honus Wagner! Moredchai 'three finger' Brown!"...."Sir, those players have been dead for over 50 years."...."Fine Smithers! Fine me some players, some good players, some LIVING players!"

2007-10-19 09:33:41
8.   regfairfield
If we did hire Torre, it would be at best pointless, and at worst harmful. He does not seem like the guy that should be handling a young team. Players fall out of his favor extremely quickly, so there's a good chance that if one of our farm system products like LaRoche takes 20 bad at bats to start his career, we'll never see him again. Also, he has a huge tendency to pick a favorite reliever and run him into the ground. Do we really want a bullpen where Broxton and Proctor combine for 220 innings?

He just seems to take what we don't like about Grady and magnify it.

2007-10-19 09:34:16
9.   Ken Noe
My first thought reading that was wondering if Scott Proctor was near anything sharp. Then I imagined asking DePodesta if McCourt would fire Little two weeks after vowing to keep him.
2007-10-19 09:34:48
10.   blue22
Scott Proctor is not fond of this rumor. And I fear for Jon Broxton's elbow if this happened.
2007-10-19 09:35:54
11.   blue22
8/9 - Ha, I swear mine was supposed to be an original joke.
2007-10-19 09:35:55
12.   Greg Brock
My concerns:

1. Third base
2. Jettisoning Nomar
3. CF
4. Starting pitching.

100. The manager

2007-10-19 09:36:03
13.   Ken Noe
On the other hand, we might get Betemit back.
2007-10-19 09:36:56
14.   fanerman
I really don't think changing managers would change our team's winning potential very much. Grady isn't even that bad. Not much better or worse than the typical manager. And Joe would take money away from signing players (or locking up kids).
2007-10-19 09:37:11
15.   regfairfield
12 Thank you.
2007-10-19 09:37:25
16.   Ken Noe
Would it help get A-Rod?
2007-10-19 09:38:41
17.   fanerman
I don't think A-Rod is loyal to Torre the way Mariano or Posada would be. A-Rod is loyal to the almighty dollar.
2007-10-19 09:39:56
18.   fracule
Hey, the Brooklyn Dodgers went to he World Series 9 Times.
The LA Dodgers have been to the World Series 9 Times.
Maybe, being a bum isn't so bad. I mean, you don't have to work, people just give you money for doing nothing but asking for it.
2007-10-19 09:41:39
19.   The Mootz
I'd be surprised if Torre became the Dodgers manager, this year or any year. Unless Torre is given part ownership of the team (yeah, right), McCourt won't be able to afford the salary Torre was used to in New York.

Instead of hiring a guy with Brooklyn ties, how about hiring the guy who hit a home run in his only at-bat in the 1988 World Series?

2007-10-19 09:43:54
20.   fanerman
Why don't we just stick with the manager we have and move onto other things?
2007-10-19 09:44:30
21.   Marty
I doubt Torre manages again. He was a failure everywhere but New York. He'll never have the talent he did in N.Y. Plus he's had a few heart attacks. He'll go back to the booth.
2007-10-19 09:46:06
22.   Jon Weisman
21 - "He'll go back to the booth."

Where I recall him being pretty good.

2007-10-19 09:46:23
23.   regfairfield
20 The only reason I see for this is that the Dodgers need a scapegoat for this year, and since it won't be Pierre or Nomar, I'd much rather Grady get the axe than Matt Kemp.
2007-10-19 09:46:48
24.   fracule
20 Agreed. It's not like this GM and Manager gave us 20 games below .500, or even below .500 at all.
2007-10-19 09:47:44
25.   fracule
22 I think I remember him in the Angel's booth before St. Louis. Is that right?
2007-10-19 09:48:19
26.   Marty
He was good in the Angels booth. Wait a minute, did Hudler replace Torre?
2007-10-19 09:51:41
27.   Reddog
I'm basically writing off 2008 already. We've got Ned, Grady, Nomar, Pierre and Kent
back, all hopefully for their last season here. We're going to have the same unhappy clubhouse we had this season. To me that sounds like 4th place again - maybe 2nd place at best behind the Rockies.

I do think that will lead to a bright 2009 -with Ned and Grady shown the door, Logan White taking over as GM, the old vets gone for good, and the young players taking over.

2007-10-19 09:52:11
28.   Greg Brock
26 Torre was outstanding on the Angels telecasts. Torre in place of Dusty Baker would make BBTN infinitely more watchable.

Now, about that Phillips character...

2007-10-19 09:52:40
29.   fanerman
Well, if we're gonna hire baseball people who no longer play baseball, I'd rather get Orel Hershiser or Leo Mazzone. Not necessarily for manager.

23 NedCo could just fire himself? Yeah. Not gonna happen.

2007-10-19 09:55:07
30.   Ken Noe
I don't favor hiring him either, but I can imagine five reasons why McCourt might:

1. Sox fans are obsessed with the Yankees.
2. Torre is a celebrity in the Lasorda mold.
3. The 2008 marketing plan. "Torre to LA!"
4. A-Rod (though I think I agree with 17 )
5. Instant credibility on ESPN.

None of these are good reasons, of course, but so what?

2007-10-19 09:59:31
31.   fanerman
23 Do you think the Dodgers need a scapegoat? Or do you think that the Dodgers think they need a scapegoat?
2007-10-19 10:16:40
32.   fracule
31 I think the Dodgers have more time then they realize to do things the right way. It seems the attitude among the press is that things have to happen right away. We as fans say we want that, but then reward a mediocre season by showing up in droves the next. It seems like everyone wants the nuclear option all the time, but what one wants, and what one needs are often two different things.
2007-10-19 10:18:53
33.   blue22
Joe Torre has a .471 winning percentage (across 1900 games) when he's managing a team that does not have the highest payroll in baseball.
2007-10-19 10:22:20
34.   blue22
26 - You've forgotten the Sparky Anderson years already?
2007-10-19 10:24:19
35.   blue22
Actually it was mostly Ken Brett that bridged the gap between Torre and Hudler.
2007-10-19 10:36:59
36.   regfairfield
31 I think they need to create the impression that they're trying to change things to placate the media. In a perfect world, nothing would change, but somethings going to have to be done. Firing Grady, even though he has done nothing wrong, would be the best course of action for the Dodgers future.
2007-10-19 10:42:39
37.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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