Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Rockies' Way
2007-10-19 10:39
by Jon Weisman

For, I wrote a column describing how the Colorado Rockies are anything but an overnight success.

Colorado's blinding 21-1 run over the past month obscures the fact that this was a team that had played .624 ball (58-45) over the three months prior to firing the turbo boosters. And the abrupt turnaround of a team that had posted losing records in the previous six seasons, including 76-86 in 2006, belies how timid a makeover the Rockies put themselves through during the previous offseason.

Unlikely as it may be for a franchise down on its luck for so long, frustration and desperation went on a disappearing act in Denver. Rather, Colorado's success this year had more to do with taking long, deep breaths than with long, deep moves into the trade and free agent markets. ...

And for those who would suggest that Los Angeles is too impatient a city to allow a team to build in this fashion, 1) I don't see that this is true, and 2) if it is true, look where it has gotten us.

Value what you have. That's my 2007-08 mantra.

Update: Controversy?! The all-time Los Angeles sports No. 49, according to the Daily News, is ... Tom Niedenfuer.

You sort of forget the good things he did do, before he became a bete noir.

Comments (218)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-19 10:46:30
1.   scareduck
2007-10-19 10:57:58
2.   sweepstakes
And for those who would suggest that Los Angeles is too impatient a city to allow a team to build in this fashion . . .

I don't trust the brass to have the patience.

2007-10-19 10:59:55
3.   Ben P
Off topic -- here's an interesting piece on the beat writers and the potential conflicts of reporters being paid by the league they cover. As a reporter, it's hard for me to imagine this not being a big problem (though Ken Gurnick seems to do a pretty good job).

2007-10-19 11:05:42
4.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
I don't trust the LA Times to have the patience.
2007-10-19 11:07:27
5.   Johnny Nucleo
Takashi Saito was killed after being hit on the head with a bottle and beaten with an aluminum bat by a stable of Sumo wrestlers:

(no, not that Takashi Saito)

2007-10-19 11:11:37
6.   kngoworld
I heard a rumor that Rockies upper management and ownership are very religious. Supposedly they only draft and sign players within the same religion with the intentions of keeping a happy clubhouse. Has anyone heard anything like this? This seemed a little far-fetched to me.
2007-10-19 11:11:40
7.   regfairfield
I think the lesson that can be learned from the Rockies and Tigers is how important defense is with this absurd pitching market. Neither team had more than one good pitcher (Verlander's perhiperals were not great in 2006) yet they excelled at keeping runs off the board because their defense was amazing. Buying pitching off the free agent market is just pointless now, so picking up guys who have good gloves and letting your decent in house options and waiver wire pickups take the ball seems like a much better option.
2007-10-19 11:13:57
8.   fanerman
7 So are you saying we should make Jeff Kent the scapegoat?
2007-10-19 11:14:48
9.   Jon Weisman
7 - Interesting ... that would have been good for me to talk about in my column. Too bad I didn't!

5 - made my heart stop for the first 10 words.

2007-10-19 11:16:35
10.   regfairfield
8 It's a start. Obviously you need to find some balance between a good glove and a good stick, but it seems like it's a lot cheaper right now to find a guy who can save runs with his glove instead of a guy who can save them with his arm.

Plus, it has the added effect of making your pitchers overvalued due to their artifically supressed ERAs so you can spin them for something useful.

2007-10-19 11:17:32
11.   dzzrtRatt
2 The Angels were in a slightly different situation as the #2 team in the market, but their 2002 team was built in much the same way as the Rockies. They've tried to sustain it with imports like Vlad, Colon and Escobar, but the core of the 2002 team was comprised of homegrown players or players taken from other minor league systems: Anderson, Glaus, Lackey, Washburn, Eckstein, Erstad, Percival, K-Rod. The wave of emotion around that team was due to the fans' feeling that these players belonged to them. Even though the Angels have not reached the top since then, and even though the 2002 team has almost completely turned over, the fans still view the team as a local product, uniquely theirs.

McCourt needs to understand this. Bringing in famous old players is a quick fix for sustaining fan interest. In the long haul, fans like to discover, not rent, superstars.

2007-10-19 11:25:30
12.   Woden325
6 Somehow I doubt Kasuo Matsui is an evangelical. I'm skeptical of these stories about the, as Mark TR Donohue put it, "dugout crusade for Christ."
2007-10-19 11:27:36
13.   regfairfield
Slightly expanding on my defense point, these were the ranks in team defensive efficency for the playoff teams this year:

2nd, 3rd, 8th, 9th, 11th, 14th, 16th, 19th.

Two of the teams on the bottom, the Yankees (14th) and the Phillies (19th) were the two best offensive teams in baseball and won mainly with that. Cleveland is the only team that didn't score a huge amount of runs (6th in the AL) yet were still successful without a good defense. They prevented runs almost entirely with in house pitching with Paul Byrd being the only remotely relevant free agent pitcher.

It's not nearly enough data to reach a real conclusion, but this is leading me to think that right now to excel at run prevention you either need a great defense or home grown pitching talent.

2007-10-19 11:44:07
14.   scareduck
Magic Johnson over Koufax? I don't remember, was he an infielder?
2007-10-19 11:52:57
15.   ToyCannon
I'd love to see a team get built with agnostics and atheists. The post game interviews would be a bit more interesting.
2007-10-19 11:54:24
16.   fracule
Nice post Jon. I know I've said this before, but I think everyone is getting tired of the big markets requiring major alterations in their team every off-season. I wonder how many people turn out to the ballpark because of what they read in the Times that morning.
2007-10-19 11:55:37
17.   Jon Weisman
But isn't Alyssa a blogger?

2007-10-19 11:56:32
18.   fracule
6 The USA today article quoted them as being open to all beliefs, but that Christian principles guide their decisions, and the decisions of many of their players.
2007-10-19 11:57:27
19.   scareduck
17 - I think the assumption is that pitcher -> ex-girlfriend = Alyssa Milano.
2007-10-19 12:02:01
20.   underdog
Niedenfuer..?! Niedenfuer...! ("Cleaning Woman?! Cleaning Woman!!")

Actually, I always liked the guy until his big choke... and even then felt sorry for him.


Speaking of rumored coaching shifts, anyone think there's a chance the Dodgers could let Honeycutt go and replace him with Orel Hershiser? I don't have that many problems with Honeycutt but would love to have Orel on the staff, rather than see him go elsewhere.

2007-10-19 12:10:00
21.   Jon Weisman
20 - LOL - great analogy. The meter totally works.

I think Hershiser wants to manage or do front office at this point.

2007-10-19 12:15:58
22.   bhsportsguy
7 Not to beat "MoneyBall" to death but I do recall that after the run on OBP types, good defenders were the next category of players that could be obtained at a more equitable price.

I'm fairly confidnet that Kent produces enough offense to offset his defense especially on a team that had issues at other more offensively challenged spots.

I do think its a little early to say that the Dodgers won't play their young players instead of bringing in another crop of veterans. Right now, the only position that could even be considered would be 3B and the Dodgers have two guys already on the roster to compete for that position.

I think last year was just last year, it didn't work out. Now a lot will depend on what Jeff Kent does with his option and if the Dodgers try to go after a 3B in the free agent market.

2007-10-19 12:19:54
23.   underdog
"My plan was to kiss her with every lip on my face."

Yeah, I suppose so. I can't picture Orel managing in Pittsburgh or Kansas City (well, maybe the latter), so you never know...

2007-10-19 12:21:20
24.   bhsportsguy
I wonder if the Orel's managing and front office ship, has sailed?
2007-10-19 12:21:50
25.   silverwidow
We need to shell out everything possible for Hiroki Kuroda. I believe he put up a 1.85 ERA in close to 200 IP a few years ago.


Would be an excellent rotation with the only real question mark coming from #5.

2007-10-19 12:23:50
26.   sweepstakes
23 Trey Hillman named Royals new manager.
2007-10-19 12:31:21
27.   underdog
26 So much for that. Sorry Orel!

24 - Well, there are places where fans pine for him in some capacity, including Yankees fans (as pitching coach).

25 - How much would that cost the Dodgers? Do they have to do the ridiculous bidding process or is he a free agent?

2007-10-19 12:33:02
28.   Suffering Bruin
Teaching here so I must be quick. From Charles Pierce:

"On behalf of all Red Sox fans, I'd like to tell the team's management how happy I am that they now owe J.D. Drew only $56 million. I'm starting to come around on merit pay for general managers.

$56 million.

Jesus wept."

2007-10-19 12:33:14
29.   Jon Weisman
Trey Hillman is the only interview I've ever done between the hours of 1 and 6 a.m.
2007-10-19 12:36:38
30.   silverwidow
27 Kuroda has an opt-out clause in his contract, which would make him a free agent.
2007-10-19 12:39:40
31.   trainwreck
Yep, the A's have recently been built on defense, when they could no longer afford the high OBP guys.
2007-10-19 12:44:55
32.   JoeyP
Tulowitski replacing Barmes.
Morales/Jiminez in the rotation.

Those 3 things are the main differences between this year and last year.

The rapid development of Tulo has been unreal and made all the difference.

2007-10-19 12:46:31
33.   JoeyP
28--I'm not sure why so many columnist hate JD Drew.

Even this year, in a down season, Drew still put up a .373 OBP, along with a .796 OPS.

If he plays CF, he's worth every penny even in a down year.

2007-10-19 12:55:40
34.   JoeyP
I think the lesson that can be learned from the Rockies and Tigers is how important defense is with this absurd pitching market.

Not exactly.
The Rockies and Tigers finished 2nd in the NL/AL in runs scored during the regular season.

The "scoring runs" part of winning seems to have played a bigger role in them winning than preventing runs.

I'd be very leary of put so much value on defense, at the expense of hitting/pitching.

2007-10-19 13:00:19
35.   Brian Y
33. I think the good thing to do would be for Ned to send over Juan Pierre and Nomar for JD Drew. Then it's almost like revenge for taking Drew from us and leaving us with Juan Pierre. And the Sox get a decent 3B to replace Lowell and be able to leave Youk at 1B.
2007-10-19 13:00:28
36.   Marty
Can someone explain why Hershiser would be a good manager choice? All I can tell is he was a good pitcher and local hero. But I've seen nothing that would make me go out of my way to hire him as manager.

But maybe I'm missing something.

2007-10-19 13:00:57
37.   regfairfield
32 Morales threw 39 innings in place of Cook, I don't think that made a huge difference.
2007-10-19 13:01:45
38.   StolenMonkey86
17 - It's funny because the bloggers are the ones that do the fact checking.
2007-10-19 13:02:14
39.   regfairfield
34 True, but I meant from a run prevention standpoint.
2007-10-19 13:04:47
40.   fanerman
36 He seems to be a smart guy with good baseball sense as well as a willingness to look at stats. I think that's most of it. That and he's a Dodger hero.
2007-10-19 13:05:45
41.   JoeyP
Can someone explain why Hershiser would be a good manager choice?

I'd like to hear Michael Scott answer that question.

2007-10-19 13:06:01
42.   bhsportsguy
But Drew is not playing CF, he is being paid (and maybe wrongly) as a 25-30 HR guy not to a good OPS centerfielder.

That's how Boras markets him.

And that is why he is viewed as a disappointment.

If he made 8-10 million a year, played good defense in center and then did his standard offense, than he would get some slack.

But he doesn't.

2007-10-19 13:14:41
43.   ToyCannon
Bluebleeder could tell you why but I'd hate for him to get banned again.
2007-10-19 13:16:40
44.   fanerman
43 Huh?
2007-10-19 13:20:44
45.   StolenMonkey86
42 - But of course, compared to the Carlos Lee signing it's not too terrible.
2007-10-19 13:22:02
46.   ToyCannon
Who here wouldn't want an outfield of JD/Kemp/Ethier going forward?
2007-10-19 13:30:59
47.   StolenMonkey86
46 - I guess it would be worth an extra $20 million
2007-10-19 13:31:46
48.   StolenMonkey86
47 - cont'd

I'd rather have Young/Kemp/Ethier and then save up for Santana, though

2007-10-19 13:32:37
49.   El Lay Dave
24 Larry Dierker says no.
2007-10-19 13:40:30
50.   Marty
Where's Shimmin?

Bacon Candy Bar:

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-10-19 13:52:24
51.   paranoidandroid
Joe Torre is not coming to L.A. this year. For no other reason than he turned down 5 mil to work? McCourt won't pay him that when we have a manager under contract.

Grady is our manager. Now if things don't start out too well, I don't think we'll be very patient. But making a move now doesn't make much sense.

2007-10-19 13:57:08
52.   scareduck
50 - I think there was something in the book of Revelation about this: right after the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, there were the Three Candy Bars of the Nausea.
2007-10-19 13:58:13
53.   scareduck
51 - Has Frank ever exhibited any patience or good judgement before? Be prepared to defend your assertion with examples.
2007-10-19 14:01:57
54.   trainwreck
Most necessary invention ever.
2007-10-19 14:03:32
55.   blue22
51 - He turned down the performance incentives, not the lump sum money. $5M would still make him the highest paid manager in the bigs. It was pretty clear to him that the Yankees simply made him an offer he could only refuse. This way the Yanks can move on, and Torre gets to save face. I bet Torre is as excited as anyone to finally get out.
2007-10-19 14:04:05
56.   JoeyP
42--I always thought Drew was marketed as a good all around player. He had a down year this year in terms of power, but overall its not like the guys sucks.

A .373 OBP is a .373 OBP.

Its just that some of the traditional baseball media doesnt see the value on OBP, OPS, etc...not traditional baseball GMs...and both are focusing on HR/RBI's.

Carlos Beltran OPS'ed .744 his first year in NY. Sometimes good players have down years and bounce back.

2007-10-19 14:04:45
57.   paranoidandroid
Why are the Rocks so hot? Why did the Cards win last year? Were the Cubs a better team than the Dodgers?

So many factors turn things around slightly in a set period of time. Luck is a big factor. Pure luck. So is timing, circumstance, and assigned match-ups.


1. If the Rocks don't hit two late inning home runs off the back end of our bullpen, do they even make the playoffs? Just not hitting one of those and they are on vacation at the end of September.

2. If the Dodgers win one more game last year (like April 30, 2006!), then we win the division and we play St. Louis in the first round. Does St. Louis handle us the way they did SD? Who knows. Luck. They got to play SD and got to face NY Mets when their lack of pitching depth hurt them more, in a seven game series.

3. Rocks sign Matt Herges, he has a great year. Who saw this coming. They pick up Kaz Matsui as a discard. Great moves or luck? Bringing up young pitchers late in the season and they hang in there enough to win some games. Lucky stretch, or are they true and solid major league arms? I say right now it is a good stretch, but if up for a length of time, MLB hitters could figure them out.

4. If Wakefield doesn't deflect the ball on Tuesday night and Pedroia turns a double-play, the seven run inning is only a one-run inning. A few inches and the game is totally different. Luck. Circumstance.

5. MLB makes schedules. Who you play and when during the season are determining factors in team records.

6. Did we really go 6 for 100 with RISP at one point this year? Did we forget how to hit, or did luck play a factor?

7. Smith's pinch hit basehit in game four of the Rocks series falls as a blooper to keep a 2 out inning alive. Rocks open the game up. If that ball is caught, D-Backs are out of the inning. Different game, eh.

The Dodgers just need to have some things fall our way next year. A good core of talent, solid leadership, consistent pitching and defensive, and a bit of luck. We got Saito out of nowhere. Boston picked up a discarded David Ortiz. Every team needs a shot in the arm like that.

2007-10-19 14:05:32
58.   KG16
33 - because JD Drew is dour. Same reason why so many fans just shrugged when he left. There are a lot of people that are rubbed the wrong way by a guy who has one of the greatest jobs in the history of the world and doesn't seem to appreciate it. And then there's the whole Philly draft issue.

48 - agreed, except for the saving up for Santana part.

2007-10-19 14:09:40
59.   ishXdavid
I read an article about the Rockies during the September stretch run where Matt Holliday was beaming about the young guys (Holliday, Atkins, and Tulo) giving everything they had and leaving it all out there on the field for Todd Helton because he had never been in the postseason. I couldn't help but contrast that attitude with the current dismal status of our clubhouse where our "veteran leaders" inspired nothing remotely close to that kind sentiment. Helton had come off an uncharacteristic down season sparking plenty of preseason trade rumors, but Helton's a true pro and obviously a real leader which is something I wish our "veteran leaders" could've picked up on. Helton could've went the Kent/Gonzo route and turned the season into a selfish ploy to revitalize a waning career, but the highest-paid Rockie of all time battled through and inspired a team of youngsters to grow up and win as a team.
2007-10-19 14:09:44
60.   KG16
57 - I'm tired of the luck argument. Really, if it's all about luck, then the stats don't matter. Stats show skill, correct? If each PA or play is all about luck, then the stats are absolutely meaningless. It's one or the other, skill or luck.

The Rockies won the pennant because over the course of the season and the playoffs they played better than the rest of the National League. They were better. Period.

2007-10-19 14:10:24
61.   paranoidandroid
I think Torre had a guranteed 5 mil with up to three mil in incentives, right?

The 5 mil per year is more than the Dodgers would pay a manager. I know Torre turned it down as it was a pay cut in guaranteed money. I just don't think as we look at 08 that we'd consider the move on a financial level even if we thought he was the guy who could put the team on the same page.

Just speculating.

2007-10-19 14:11:14
62.   Dodgers49
6. I heard a rumor that Rockies upper management and ownership are very religious. Supposedly they only draft and sign players within the same religion with the intentions of keeping a happy clubhouse. Has anyone heard anything like this?

I just read about that yesterday in last week's Sports Illustrated (October 15, 2007). If you have a copy handy you'll find it on page 40.

2007-10-19 14:12:46
63.   regfairfield
62 I guess that explains why they're team white guy with sunglasses.
2007-10-19 14:14:34
64.   paranoidandroid
60 "It's one or the other, skill or luck."

I think it is both. I am not implying nor saying talent, skill, effort, etc. are factors to be ignored. That is not my point. I am simply stating and I still absolutely believe that luck and circumstance factor into who wins and when. Perhaps not always and not as the deciding factor, but they do indeed influence outcomes.

2007-10-19 14:14:37
65.   Humma Kavula
57 April 30, 2006... boy, do I remember that game.

Here's the thing -- that game was the Beginning of the End of the Danys Baez era. That was the game where many people who previously thought that the guy might be OK changed their position to "We gotta keep on eye on this guy." I believe, though I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to look it up, that it was The End of the Lance Carter era, if such an era actually existed.

So let's say that Carter finishes that one up fine and Baez never comes in. Maybe they both stay with the Dodgers a little longer and the team loses multiple other games instead.

Change one thing, change the world, grasshopper.

2007-10-19 14:17:05
66.   still bevens
The girl I share my office just hugged Derek Jeter in the lobby. Anyone within the vicinity of the Starbucks near the Century City mall can run over and shake hands with Captain Clutch if they run over in the next 5 minutes. I think I'll stay put with my spreadsheets.
2007-10-19 14:17:13
67.   scareduck
58 - every time a Drew family member gets picked off base, an angel gets their wings.
2007-10-19 14:18:37
68.   paranoidandroid
62 I find that very hard to believe. Gabe Kapler was on that team for some time, he's a member of my tribe.

That would be a very shallow and simplistic viewpoint to base who you want on your team.

2007-10-19 14:23:34
69.   KG16
64 - What annoys me about the luck argument is that it is arbitrarily used to explain an outcome.

Everyone says that the Rockies got lucky, but they won as many games as Arizona (granted they had one extra game) which means they had the second best regular season record in the NL. If the 20 wins at the end of the season were spread across the year, instead of bunched at the end, would anyone be calling them lucky?

2007-10-19 14:24:00
70.   paranoidandroid
65 The last of Lance Carter. He started that inning and Baez was sent to save him. We wasted 8 innings of shut out work from D. Lowe. The Pads were on the carpet and ready to fold that year too. A really bad stretch. They took off at that point.

I agree with your assessment, change one thing, and it all changes in resonse.

2007-10-19 14:27:32
71.   ishXdavid
66 - You might want to santitize your office now. STD's aren't airborne, but you never know...
2007-10-19 14:28:11
72.   blue22
70 - If we reverse 4/30/06, don't we also have to reverse the 4+1 game? You can't cherry pick against karma.

I'll gladly keep things as they are, including the by-products of that 4/30 game (the banishments of Baez and Carter).

2007-10-19 14:28:13
73.   Humma Kavula
69 I think you're missing a key part of paranoid's point.

Another way to put it is that "you make your own luck." The Rockies put together a very good team that was capable of getting to the World Series. They hit well and play good defense. Like any very good -- or even great -- team, they required a few bounces to go their way. That's not a knock on them; like I said, they were in a position to have those bounces go their way because they were so good to begin with.

Any team that wins 21 out of 22 at any point in the season is a very good team that has had some luck on their side.

2007-10-19 14:29:48
74.   MC Safety
67-every time a Drew is benched agianst a lefty, Jack Bauer kills a terrorist.
2007-10-19 14:30:26
75.   paranoidandroid
69 I absolutely do not attribute the Rocks overall success to luck. Nothing close to it. But luck has been a factor in getting them from being a good young team developing into a winning team, into being in the WS this year.

As far as the Rock story goes, I love it. I wish it was us. I wish we didn't lose seven to them in Sept, but as long as we were out of it and got our 83 wins, I'm very happy for them and it gives me a fun team to pull for.

However, I still stand by my belief that a few things went their way. While over time these things likely balance out for all teams and people, when it makes a small difference at the right time, it can make a really big difference overall. Just my opinion. If you disagree, you can still come to my birthday party. I've been wrong before, but I indeed feel strongly about this particular opinion. Gotta run now. Be well my Dodger friends. I'm hoping for a seven game ALCS series and a seven game WS.

2007-10-19 14:31:39
76.   KG16
73 - "you make your own luck" - so, you have skill that over comes superstitions?
2007-10-19 14:33:01
77.   blue22
76 - Luck favors the prepared, or whatever that saying is.
2007-10-19 14:34:02
78.   Humma Kavula
76 Well, that's a particularly uncharitable way of putting it, but in a sense, yes. It doesn't matter how lucky you are if your team is bad.

You seem to be arguing that luck plays no role. Maybe I'm wrong and not understanding your point -- if so, please explain. But if so, I don't get it. Chance plays a role in everything.

2007-10-19 14:35:13
79.   Dodgers49
62. I went to SI and looked up the article online:


>> The Rockies off the field are like the small-campus fraternity that gets involved in community projects, has a solid cumulative GPA and attends chapel regularly. The organization drew fire last season, in fact, when chairman and CEO Charlie Monfort implied, strongly, that the team looks to fill its roster with Christians, and general manager Dan O'Dowd added that "God has definitely had a hand" in some of the moves Colorado made and the games it won. (This season's 90-73 finish marked the fifth time in the franchise's 15-year existence that it ended with a winning record.) The subject hasn't surfaced this season, and O'Dowd said last week that the no-one-but-Christians-wanted angle was overblown. "Many people in this organization have a ton of faith, and I'm certainly one of them," says O'Dowd, who has been with Colorado since September 1999. "But it's not anything we talk about. Our focus is on getting players of good character. When you combine character with talent and nurture it within your own system, you have a good chance of succeeding. That's finally happened here." <<

2007-10-19 14:35:24
80.   paranoidandroid
72 Good points. I'm not sure 4 plus 1 would be a necessary and big win for us if SD doesn't get back into a winning mode with the 4/30 game. We'll never know.

I remember thinking they might have canceled each other out. I also remember a few of the games we let get away that might have been that one that made us the Wild Card instead of winning the division. Maybe SD had a few too. Either way, it was so close and it might have made a difference if we had home field for five games against STL instead of on the road against NYM.

I do not miss Carter or Baez. And I thought that was a good trade at the time. I though Danys would fill in for Gagne that year. I don't miss those guys. Carter was gone to the minors after that, took us to July to get rid of Baez. I'm sure he cost us a few more games before he left.

Gotta run!

2007-10-19 14:36:48
81.   KG16
75 - Don't mean to beat up on you on this. I just find it funny that so many people who purport to rely on objective statistics and rational will dismiss good play as being lucky.

A crazy bounce (or bad call) maybe changes the course of a game, and a team may use that game to build a winning streak. To me, that's not luck, it's the psychological reaction of very good athletes.

2007-10-19 14:38:51
82.   Humma Kavula
Here's another way of putting it:

I like to play board games. My particular habit is getting way out in front of my opponents and then try to hold on as they chip away at my lead. It works enough -- about a third of the time -- that I haven't really changed my strategy.

Sometimes, my friends like to parse my victories -- why weren't we able to catch Humma? Well, he got lucky on his fourth turn when he ______________.

To some extent, it's true. I do get lucky sometimes. Another way of looking at it is that I look at what I have in hand and formulate a strategy around my assets.

Did my strategy work? Or did I get lucky? Or both?

2007-10-19 14:41:04
83.   KG16
78 - not saying luck plays no role. Just that it is overrated.

Perhaps it's my time as a poker pro and dealing with people who would rather be lucky than good. Good players (and teams) do not need to rely on luck, bad players (and teams) need luck to win. At least, that's my take on life.

2007-10-19 14:42:28
84.   regfairfield
81 But you can't deny that luck plays a part. There's a reason that the best teams in baseball win only 60% of the time. A grounder that just gets past an outstretched fielder is luck. Hitting 50 points higher with runners in scoring position is luck. Stranding 90% of the opponents runners on base is luck. So much of baseball comes down to chance.

Now, would we be calling the Rockies lucky if they just played like this all season? No. They had the best pyhtagorean record in baseball. However, no team can win 20 of 21 and chalk it purely up to skill. There are tons of instances in the Rockies stretch where if things just went slightly differently, it would have been over.

2007-10-19 14:43:21
85.   Humma Kavula
83 I can agree with your second paragraph. The thing I'd add is that if you're a good player AND lucky, you can win the WSOP.
2007-10-19 14:43:43
86.   regfairfield
For example, the Rockies have been amazing during this stretch, and their Pyhtagorean record since they started rolling is something like 18-3. It's very, very good baseball, but so many things could have derailed them up to this point.
2007-10-19 14:55:43
87.   KG16
84 - I think the lower winning percentages in baseball is a result of them playing twice as many games as any other sport - the difference in skill between the best teams and worst teams in the Majors is much smaller than we sometimes recognize.

As for the rest of them:

1. there is something to be said for the skill of "hitting it where they ain't"
2. there are several factors that lead to a higher BA w/RISP, including the fact that a sac fly does not count as an AB. What would be F9 in a regular at bat and counts against a player's BA doesn't count with a runner on third. On top of that, there are the situational aspects of the game.
3.stranding runners can be a showing of defensive and pitching skills.

2007-10-19 14:59:04
88.   regfairfield
87 Do you really think theres a skill that makes a difference between making the ball go six inches one way or the other? A player can hit a ball to the certain part of the field? Sure, a player can poke the ball to one field or the other, but there's no skill at all between diving stop and just up the middle.

There are so few sac flys that theres no way it would make a 50 point difference in hitting.

Also, no team can strand 90% of runners by skill against another competent team. Mid to high 70s, sure, but not 90 percent.

2007-10-19 14:59:41
89.   scareduck
66 - The girl I share my office just hugged Derek Jeter in the lobby.

Hopefully your company has a shower somewhere.

2007-10-19 15:05:33
90.   goofus
Here's a way to get A-Rod: We offer him 5 years @ $35 mil with a two year opt out. The chance to opt out after 2 years will be a great temptation to Boras so he can be a free agent again from a higher established pay rate. Maybe by then some other options will be open for whatever our needs are then. This type of contract might work well in pursuit of Andruw Jones because he's coming off a down year: 4 years for $80 mil and back load the contract, with a two year opt out. We get him 2 years for $30-$35 mil, and if he has good numbers he can opt out and try for a bigger contract. Of course we're still paying Pierre for eating a roster spot...
2007-10-19 15:11:25
91.   Howard Fox
there is an old saying...I'd rather be lucky than good...

now that being said, you have to be good to be lucky

a lousy team doesn't have good luck cause they are never in a position to take advantage or benefit by it...thus you don't see the lucky opportunities

a good team is in position to benefit...the Rockies are good...are they lucky? damn right...but they have been in position to benefit by their luck for the past 22 straight games

2007-10-19 15:12:13
92.   regfairfield
90 I don't know if he'd go for it, but after seeing how opt out clauses have panned out recently, I'm a big fan of them. Unless the guy completly collapses, the economics of baseball pretty much ensure he'll get more money if he opts out in a couple years, so it's you can get a Furcal like contract without the extra money.
2007-10-19 15:13:09
93.   scareduck
90 - The easy way to get A-Rod is just set a tiger trap full of money.
2007-10-19 15:13:20
94.   regfairfield
91 There's no doubt the Rockies have been incredible the last month, but a lot of very small things could have changed to make them 18-3 instead of 20-1. That's where the luck comes in.
2007-10-19 15:19:35
95.   Bluebleeder87
Yhency Brazoban, coming back from elbow surgery, blew out his shoulder after only 1 2/3 innings. from Ken Gurnik (MLB.COM)

I still think Grady Little spead up Yhency Brazobans arm injury. Fresh from SERIOUS ALBOW surgery Grady used him like fresh 21 year old meat when he was coming off serious surgery, I don't think I'll ever like how Little handles the bullpen (remember Brox?) if anything hopefully McDonald, Elbert or Morris can prove major league ready in '08.

2007-10-19 15:20:06
96.   jasonungar07
Thats why JP is so rough for me as an offesnsive seems that everything he does on offense relies on luck.
2007-10-19 15:21:48
97.   Jon Weisman
More on the Rockies:

2007-10-19 15:29:17
98.   Bluebleeder87
McCourt needs to understand this. Bringing in famous old players is a quick fix for sustaining fan interest. In the long haul, fans like to discover, not rent, superstars.

Nicely said DzzrtRatt, it also shows the utter 360 in styles, L.A. Contra N.Y.

2007-10-19 15:30:43
99.   blue22
96 - Well, he does try to accentuate his strengths at least. He hits more line drives and more ground balls than anyone else on the team. He just never met a pitch he couldn't have a hack at; that's my big problem with him.
2007-10-19 15:34:08
100.   Bluebleeder87
A little more on my 95

I think he was used more in the minors (rehab) I just don't think he was nurtured (is that the word I'm looking for?) like some other players do slash have.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-10-19 15:55:58
101.   Bluebleeder87

his OBP was pretty good JoeyP but I'm sure the media is concentrating more on his 70 mill contract, I'm sure he'll bounce back next year, but man what horrible '07.

2007-10-19 16:04:03
102.   regfairfield
WARP1 Race:

Luis Gonzalez: 3.3
Rudy Seanez: 3.1
J.D. Drew: 2.8
Juan Pierre: 2.6

2007-10-19 16:07:32
103.   fanerman
At least with J.D. you have reason to think he can bounce back next year.
2007-10-19 16:14:33
104.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. The plane carrying the USC football team to Notre Dame plummets toward the ground during a thunderstorm.

""It wasn't the worst flight I've ever been on," quarterback John David Booty said. "But it was definitely the biggest drop."

2007-10-19 16:16:03
105.   regfairfield
103 Of course, but it's hard to argue he was anything but terrible this year.
2007-10-19 16:17:05
106.   regfairfield
I think Drew is capable of being what Brian Giles is now and this was just a down year, by the way.
2007-10-19 16:19:10
107.   Jim Hitchcock
The link to 104 :
2007-10-19 16:28:38
108.   Bluebleeder87
there's ALWAYS the injury bug with J.D. though.
2007-10-19 16:29:09
109.   Dodgers49
The Civil Rights Letters of Jackie Robinson: First Class Citizenship

>> Robinson writes to Dodgers owner Walter O'Malley in '62, admitting his loyalty to Branch Rickey and his "being stubborn" had probably led to a deterioration in his relationship with the team after Rickey left. <<

2007-10-19 16:30:41
110.   dzzrtRatt
66 "The girl I share my office just hugged Derek Jeter in the lobby."

That's what I imagine it's like being famous and rich. Women throw themselves at you. That's how Wilt Chamberlain hit 10,000. It started with a hug from a total stranger x 10,000.

2007-10-19 16:39:52
111.   BlueCrew Bruin
104 Defensive end Lawrence Jackson said he was going to see the team trainer because a Popsicle stick pierced the inside of his mouth during the drop.


2007-10-19 17:20:37
112.   Jon Weisman
Don't forget to watch Friday Night Lights, people.
2007-10-19 17:24:08
113.   scareduck
110 - That's how Wilt Chamberlain hit 10,000.

5,000 of which were "women". I guess at that pace, you're more interested in keeping the assembly line going.

2007-10-19 17:29:35
114.   scareduck
113 - or was that Magic Johnson?
2007-10-19 18:27:50
115.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, Coach.
2007-10-19 18:43:46
116.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm not sure about the apple wood smoked part. Bacon, in my experience, doesn't need different flavors. I don't think I've had apple wood smoked, but maple smoked bacon is an abomination. Also the whole chocolate thing doesn't seem to add much to it.

But I'm on board with the theory that there ought to be a more portable sort of bacon. Cast iron griddles are inconvenient.

2007-10-19 18:48:01
117.   nofatmike
109 Daily breeze article:

>>Robinson, however, would not side with either Republicans or Democrats in his quest for equality. [b]He stumped for LBJ in '64,[/b] Nelson Rockefeller in '68 and Hubert Humphrey in '72. Robinson had respect for Kennedy but was critical of his motives. [b]Robinson wasn't afraid to call Barry Goldwater a "bigot" and "white supremacist" during the '64 campaign,[/b] or to exchange ideas with Malcolm X about the right way for African Americans to have a voice in politics.<<

I thought Robinson supported Goldwater in '64 because he thought the Democrats were trying to use race as a political issue? Or, at least, that's what I read in a Bill James book.

2007-10-19 18:56:29
118.   Bob Timmermann
Robinson supported Nixon in 1960 I believe.
2007-10-19 19:18:01
119.   Sam DC
Days of Thunder is on Bravo.

This is not your father's Bravo.

Sorry coach, I see you up there in 112, but I'm not sure I'm ready for a real commitment.

2007-10-19 19:20:03
120.   Dodgers49
118. True, as the article points out. I even remember that campaign. But I don't believe he ever supported Goldwater.

>> Robinson and Nixon first met in 1952 at the Republican National Convention. Nixon shared a memory he had of Robinson playing football for UCLA in 1939. Robinson was more impressed with Nixon's pro-civil rights statements and ended up supporting him in the 1960 presidential campaign. <<

2007-10-19 19:43:12
121.   Dodgers49
Dodgers Notes: No changes on managerial front

>> LOS ANGELES -- Despite the sudden availability of Joe Torre, there is no indication from the Dodgers that anything has changed from the last day of the season, when owner Frank McCourt and general manager Ned Colletti said Grady Little would return as manager. <<

2007-10-19 19:52:29
122.   yankz
Whoa, dissing Arod and Jeter? I'm starting an "I hate Juan Pierre!" thread over at Bronx Banter!
2007-10-19 19:53:34
123.   Greg Brock
This, I think, is going to be a bit of an issue:

2007-10-19 19:54:58
124.   Greg Brock
122 We have those here every day.
2007-10-19 20:15:21
125.   ucladodger

Apple wood smoked bacon is heavenly. That stuff is rediculous.

2007-10-19 21:15:51
126.   Eric Enders
117 Robinson despised Goldwater probably more than any human being on the planet. I think James fixed this in later printings of the historical abstract.

Robinson supported Nixon in 1960, but campaigned vigorously against him in 1968 and 1972 once it became clear that Nixon's lip service toward civil rights was exactly that.

Robinson's presidential endorsement career can be summed up thusly:
1960 - Nixon
1964 - Rockefeller
1968 - Rockefeller (before primaries), Humphrey (after primaries)
1972 - anyone but Nixon

2007-10-19 21:39:30
127.   Dodgers49
Rick Reilly to Leave Sports Illustrated for ESPN

>> Reilly's departure comes one day after Sports Illustrated announced a deal with Dan Patrick, the former ESPN "SportsCenter" anchor and radio host. Patrick will write a column for the magazine and have his new radio program simulcast on <<

2007-10-19 21:59:13
128.   dzzrtRatt
126 Goldwater destroyed the GOP's once healthy share of the black vote when he was quoted to say that the Republican party should "go hunting where the ducks are," meaning stop campaigning for black votes and start appeasing segregationists. It's telling that despite losing to Johnson overwhelmingly, Goldwater cracked the "Solid South" that the Democratic Party used to depend on. Nixon bought into this idea and rode it to the White House in 1968; embracing the so-called Southern strategy while campaigning like a moderate in the other states.
2007-10-19 22:20:46
129.   StolenMonkey86
117 - I'd love to get into this, but this is the forum for it.

90 - The problem with that is that the free agent market will provide plenty of other good alternatives in 2 or 3 years, but right now, there's nobody. There are some guys that are pretty good, but also really old (Lowell, Bonds, Posada). Not to mention that there's no pitching to speak of on the market apart from Mariano Rivera. But you'll have some legitimate talent after 2009 or 2010, and that will drive salaries down a bit.

I'm sticking with $250 million over 7 years.

2007-10-19 22:25:16
130.   StolenMonkey86
128 - can't resist

Richard Nixon had a .313 campaigning EqA, but where was his soul?

Goldwater had Neifi Perez like campaigning skills, but a David Eckstein heart (because LBJ was gonna win anyway in 1964).

I think Bob Dylan said Goldwater was his favorite politician.

2007-10-19 22:44:40
131.   Greg Brock
130 The list of Goldwater supporters (and closet fans) is amazingly diverse. Including one Junior Senator from New York.

And with that, Rule 5 punches me in the face.

2007-10-20 05:20:27
132.   RIYank
On prospects for Dodgers (or other teams) hiring Torre:

In his press conference Torre quite explicitly and specifically said that if he were to manage for another team, he would certainly not expect them to pay him what the Yankees offered.

On luck:
Luck isn't really an explanation for a win. It's more like saying that there is no explanation. Someone who plays a lot of poker should understand this! Sure, smart money is on the skillful player, and in the long run the guys who 'rely on luck' will get fleeced. But that's the long run. The explanation for why Joe Greenhorn won $1645 in the last four hands could easily be that he got lucky, which (I think) means there isn't any explanation.

2007-10-20 07:36:50
133.   Jon Weisman
Tony Jackson says the Dodgers will joust without Jauss.

2007-10-20 08:39:40
134.   Bob Timmermann
The article implies (to me) that Grady Little is headed back for 2008.
2007-10-20 08:44:57
135.   LAT
"The rest of the coaching staff - Jauss, pitching coach Rick Honeycutt, bullpen coach Dan Warthen and base coaches Mariano Duncan and Rich Donnelly - are signed through Dec. 31. But all were given permission by Little and general manager Ned Colletti when the season ended to seek employment elsewhere because it wasn't clear how long it would take Little and Colletti to decide which coaches they want to re-sign."

Is it me or is that a crazy way to do things. You can go cause we can't decide if we want you. And its apparently going to take us four months before we can figure this out. Huh? Who runs a business this way.

2007-10-20 08:46:03
136.   Gr-ool
42 Plus, Drew's not a particularly good RBI guy, as he would pretty much rather take a walk than actually swing the bat with runners on. Not nearly worth what a good middle of the lineup guy should get.
2007-10-20 08:47:21
137.   Frip
110 I can't imagine the depth of tacky it takes to tell the world you've slept with a thousand women.
2007-10-20 09:15:59
138.   Andrew Shimmin
Drew has 469 career hits with runners on base. He has 306 career walks. 352 strikeouts, and 885 outs on balls in play. There's not a way I know of to parse out his strikeouts, to see which were looking vs. swinging, so I can't say exactly how much more Drew would rather swing than walk. But it's clearly much more.
2007-10-20 09:58:54
139.   Bluebleeder87

I hope we get Joe Girardi as our bench coach (future manager!) in all honesty I think Mariano Duncan returns but the windmill is a totally different story.135 I'm by no means a professional but I think the person who wrote that story could have phrased things better, this is baseball after all (revolving door) so in my opinion it's a non issue.

2007-10-20 10:34:56
140.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN halftime guy:"Why did your team dominate in the second half?"
Joe Paterno: "I don't know. I guess they played better..."
2007-10-20 11:23:15
141.   Eric Enders
139 When you've been named NL Manager of the Year within the past 365 days, I don't think you're going to take a bench coach job with anyone.

Of all the coaches we have, the one I would have most liked to keep was Jauss. Cripes.

2007-10-20 11:41:29
142.   Bluebleeder87

yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about him (I guess that's the reason The Bucs snatched him from us) oh well. I really hope Ned hires good people.

2007-10-20 12:23:33
143.   trainwreck
Making the coaches the scapegoats is quite dumb.

I just hope we keep Mariano Duncan. We need someone to yell at Peavy.

2007-10-20 12:30:59
144.   Eric Enders
Except Duncan failed to do that this year. So Peavy beat us. And beat us, and beat us, and beat us.
2007-10-20 12:44:03
145.   underdog
I know, of all the coaches, Jauss had the reputation of being the smartest. Seemed like he should be really valuable. Although there were times this year where I wondered, as bench coach, where he was, when Grady did something questionable, but maybe it's not the bench coach's place to argue with the manager (but, still, I thought that it was...) Anyway... it would seem they could lose Donnelly with no great loss.

Hm. My two favorite college football teams playing each other. Do I root for UCLA or California? (Don't answer that.) At least one of them will win.

2007-10-20 12:48:32
146.   underdog
Btw, we know it's a thankless and maybe even pointless job, but any frontrunners named for the hitting coach job?
2007-10-20 12:51:23
147.   trainwreck
Well Cal has more to play for than UCLA, because there is no way we are winning the Pac-10.
2007-10-20 12:55:00
148.   underdog
Hm. Think I'll root for Cal.
2007-10-20 13:21:54
149.   Bob Timmermann
There are four completely drunk Cal fans seated behind me and they are so annoying that I am tempted to rat them out to the police at halftime.

How can you be that drunk so early?

2007-10-20 13:25:12
150.   Bob Timmermann
They were so drunk they were in the wrong seats!

They've decamped for drunker pastures.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-10-20 13:32:43
151.   Andrew Shimmin
150- Being at the game, you're missing ABC's phone interview with Jim Brown, in which he called the NFL's pension system an atrocity.
2007-10-20 13:34:13
152.   Bluebleeder87
I just hope they don't fall head first & have a crowed of people they respect watch it all unfold. ;o) I'm glad I don't drink no more
2007-10-20 13:50:35
153.   Bluebleeder87
hey, you guys think there's an out side shot Kernshaw gets a Sept call up in '08? I guess it depends on how healthy the pitching staff is by September '08.
2007-10-20 13:53:48
154.   underdog
Yep, Blue, I think there's a more than outside shot that Kershaw gets called up in September. At the worst. It would surprise me if he weren't up by then, no matter what state the staff is in. If it has injury depth problems again, he could be up sooner.

150 Hm. I think I'll root for UCLA.

2007-10-20 13:55:51
155.   Andrew Shimmin
Wow. Is ND wearing throwback jerseys? Are they wearing their own throwback jersey's, or did they still them from Oregon?
2007-10-20 13:56:32
156.   Eric Enders
153 I think it's better than an outside shot that Kershaw gets a Sept callup--it's darn bloody likely. What would be an outside shot is him starting the season on the big league roster, or getting called up before June 30.

In the meantime, repeat after me: "TINSAPP."

2007-10-20 13:59:25
157.   underdog
Why is Notre Dame still getting nationally televised is a better question. Shouldn't that show be canceled by now?
2007-10-20 14:01:54
158.   Eric Enders
I think Oregon's throwback uniforms would consist of face maskless helmets, puffy pirate shirts, and jackets with long coattails, all done in bright yellow with each object emblazoned with a giant swoosh. Or something equally ridiculous.
2007-10-20 14:44:31
159.   Andrew Shimmin
Do I hate the AIG commercials because I'm a horrible person who doesn't like children, or does everybody hate the AIG commercials? I understand why the people taking video of their children laughing enjoy it. But is that something that other people like, too? Hearing other people's babies laughing?
2007-10-20 14:45:29
160.   trainwreck
I don't hate them and I hate a lot of things.
2007-10-20 15:13:04
161.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't understand. How can snatching a dead ball out of somebody's hands be called pass interference? Isn't the pass pretty much over once it's caught and called a touchdown?
2007-10-20 15:21:31
162.   Andrew Shimmin
Somebody make sure Brock is tied down securely.
2007-10-20 15:47:13
163.   Andrew Shimmin
I would punt, right here. Why wait for fourth down? I think it would really catch Cal by surprise.
2007-10-20 15:53:36
164.   dzzrtRatt
I love those Jeep Liberty ads.

I'm not sure what Don Draper would say about it, though.

Go Bears!

2007-10-20 15:53:37
165.   Andrew Shimmin
Now I'd burn the last timeout, to ice Cal's quarterback.
2007-10-20 15:56:22
166.   dzzrtRatt
2007-10-20 15:57:17
167.   Bluebleeder87

channeling my sisters, I think there cute & I smile a little every time I see them. Andrew I think you channel Ebenezer Scrooge or something.

2007-10-20 16:02:18
168.   Andrew Shimmin
Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
2007-10-20 16:04:52
169.   dzzrtRatt

I'm thinking Tedford is a little too much of a gambler. Last week and this week, they had the opportunity to go ahead (today) or go into OT (last week) by just aiming for a FG. But he wants to take one shot too many at the endzone.

Holiday Bowl, here we come again.

2007-10-20 16:23:29
170.   Marty
Congratulations UCLA.

USC covered finally.

2007-10-20 17:13:02
171.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA, in the driver's seat for the Rose Bowl!

Until they lose in Pullman next week.

The very drunk Cal fan was being walked out of the Rose Bowl by a female friend of his. He looked in really bad shape in the third quarter. I really wanted him to be around to taunt afterwards because he would have been too drunk to fight me effectively.

I pick my spots carefully.

2007-10-20 17:19:23
172.   Bob Timmermann
Although I will be watching the ALCS, why in the world is FSN West showing the Stanford-Arizona game instead of the Oregon-Washington game?
2007-10-20 17:33:04
173.   dzzrtRatt there a topic?

Anyway, every headline I saw concerning Joe Torre's press conference has him describing the Yankees' offer as an insult.

And yet I can't find one quote from Torre where he uses the word "insult" to describe anything. I thought he pointedly avoided characterizing it that way. He said he thought the Yankees were telling him he didn't do a good job. He never said anything denigrating the Yankees for having that opinion.

I thought the Yanks offer was an insult. Apparently so did a lot of sportswriters. So then the headline should have said "Writer of this story thinks Yankees' offer to Torre was an Insult."

Did I miss where Torre uses that word?

2007-10-20 17:35:15
174.   Bob Timmermann
RIP Shav Glick
2007-10-20 17:46:02
175.   Dodgers49
173. Torre Calls Yankees Bonus Offer an Insult

>> "I expressed my dissatisfaction with the length of the contract," he said of the meeting. "I explained that and the fact that the incentives, which to me I took as, you know, an insult -- that we basically get to postseason and then all of a sudden we're satisfied with where we've gotten to." <<

2007-10-20 17:50:21
176.   dzzrtRatt
175 Well I stand corrected.

But it was still weird that so many of the stories that used that headline omitted the quote you just cited.

The crowd sure got quiet when J.D. Drew stepped up to the plate.

2007-10-20 17:54:50
177.   Dodgers49
I guess J.D. decided not to walk. :-)
2007-10-20 18:01:14
178.   Jimi Shelter
Beautiful, J.D.! I'm not sure who I'm rootin' for, but I loved that!
2007-10-20 18:14:26
179.   Marty
174 Ah, too bad. I was glad to have known him slightly.
2007-10-20 18:15:00
180.   bhsportsguy
171 Good seeing you at the game, once again Bruin fans face the problem of what to root for.

One note, I saw Verner's family before the game and told them that Al needs to get his first interception of the season today and it would be great if he could take it to the house. Well he did but I am no fool, I tell them that before every game.

Also, to Cal fans, enjoy Jackson while you can, he is great player.

2007-10-20 18:16:07
181.   bhsportsguy
157 They have a their own TV contract.
2007-10-20 18:19:54
182.   Gen3Blue
That looks like our Kenny, or our Juan for that matter, unfortunately. Of course Kenny had some speed AND some power.
2007-10-20 18:24:54
183.   MikeB
174 & 179. Shav was a nice person - and the kind of sportswriter we'll never see again in our lifetimes.
2007-10-20 18:32:14
184.   bhsportsguy
168 That made me laugh.

Of course, the best film version of "A Christmas Carol" is "Scrooged."

2007-10-20 18:34:34
185.   Bob Timmermann
The best film version of "A Christmas Carol" is anything that is not "Scrooged."
2007-10-20 18:39:54
186.   natepurcell
Sucks for Cleveland how their two aces have laid eggs this series.
2007-10-20 18:40:26
187.   natepurcell
Also, to Cal fans, enjoy Jackson while you can, he is great player.

he's going to be a Viking next year :)

2007-10-20 18:44:45
188.   Bob Timmermann
Oregon and Washington are tied at 24 in the third quarter now.

Are the Ducks looking ahead to next week?

2007-10-20 18:55:33
189.   Gen3Blue
Well, for better or worse, the Sox have finally gotten something out of our Drew and Lugo.

I found it very interesting that I read something today that said it might not be coincidence that the Yanks watched teams like the Astros, Marlins and Rockies make the show with half the payroll. The implication is that while young players are risky, in that they may bite the dust, the half that make it are gonna beat old Vets, no matter how much they pay them. And the Yanks have apparently paid > a Billion, over five years.

2007-10-20 18:57:33
190.   bhsportsguy
185 I love the Alistar Sim version. The George C. Scott version is good too.
2007-10-20 18:57:58
191.   Gen3Blue
Shouldn't they have a ten run rule or something?
2007-10-20 18:58:49
192.   Gen3Blue
I go with Alistar Sims also!
2007-10-20 18:59:32
193.   bhsportsguy
189 I guess if they cut down to $140 million payroll, it would be a big deal.
2007-10-20 19:01:26
194.   Marty
192 Is that some sort of add-on to Sim City?
2007-10-20 19:03:04
195.   Andrew Shimmin
A Christmas Carol is the book where, after reading it, and declaring that I had, I learned what "abridged" meant. Scholastic Books was my first mortal enemy.
2007-10-20 19:04:59
196.   bhsportsguy
194 So no more John David? (I could have used his last name but this is family blog)
2007-10-20 19:05:29
197.   Marty
I'm actually fond of the Mr. Magoo version.
2007-10-20 19:06:26
198.   Marty
196 Works for me. If nothing else, this is great experience for Sanchez going into next year.
2007-10-20 19:26:34
199.   Gen3Blue
Would I want to walk around Sim city as John David (Scribbles)/? Don't think so.

193 If they cut down to 140 mil., they may meet us on the way up trying to pay our crippled old pitcher club. But------

this is not yet a comfortable game for a mild Sox fan like me, because it is to early. One of my goofy rules is that when a team roles up a large lead like this, they seem to become paralized in regard to scoring runs--so their pitching better hold.

2007-10-20 19:43:44
200.   Uncle Miltie
Dennis Dixon and Jonathan Stewart are amazing.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-10-20 19:46:20
201.   dzzrtRatt
Boras can't be happy about this "win with the kids" trend. To agents, this will look like collusion in another form.
2007-10-20 19:52:34
202.   Bob Timmermann
31-31 to 55-34 in a heartbeat it seemed.

I assume Oregon will be favored next week at home against USC.

2007-10-20 19:58:50
203.   Gen3Blue
201 Imagine if Baseball people began percieving guys like Lowell and Andrew Jone as kind off old hacks, and prime guys like A-Rod as not more than a 3 or 4 year sure thing. Poor Agents might have to stuggle by on six figure salaries. Outrageous!
2007-10-20 20:05:11
204.   natepurcell
Auburn just did the coolest return thing...EVARRRR!
2007-10-20 20:08:03
205.   natepurcell
Dennis Dixon and Jonathan Stewart are amazing.

Who's better, McFadden or Stewart?

2007-10-20 20:08:05
206.   Bob Timmermann
I've seen that play before although not at the college level. Loyola High used to run that play a lot.
2007-10-20 20:14:35
207.   dzzrtRatt
The Fox announcer just said Schilling will probably leave the Sox b/c he wants a contract longer than one year.

It would be a healthy development if owners established a practice of saying "are you insane?" when older players make demands like that. What Schilling is really asking for is a guaranteed seven-figure paycheck for a year into his retirement.

Same for players heading out of their prime years. It would be a very positive thing if Mike Lowell went into spring training without a team because no one would give him the four-year deal he thinks he deserves. When you hit 34-35, a two-year deal should be the maximum except in very unique cases. A longer deal only makes sense if the player will still be in his prime in the last year of it.

2007-10-20 20:20:07
208.   Daniel Zappala
158 Oregon's throwback uniforms:

2007-10-20 20:20:40
209.   Andrew Shimmin
Kinky Friedman is on CSPAN2 right now.
2007-10-20 20:25:04
210.   dzzrtRatt
There so many upsets in college ball, they're really not upsets anymore. The whole thing is afflicted with upsidasium.

BCS prediction: Arizona State v Hawaii.

OK not really.

2007-10-20 20:27:31
211.   Gen3Blue
207 The best thing about your perfect logic is that teams like the Rockys (et al) seem to be confirming it every year!!

But alas--how many years might it take "baseball people" to get it?

2007-10-20 20:28:39
212.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh. He's still talking politics. Too bad.
2007-10-20 20:34:23
213.   dzzrtRatt
I will give Lowell points for style.
2007-10-20 20:35:53
214.   Gen3Blue
Yeah-- I'm afraid that play could make him another old and decrepid Dodger.
2007-10-20 20:40:55
215.   Gen3Blue
Oh man; Kinky still talking politics? thats scary--he must have lost it?
2007-10-20 20:51:52
216.   Daniel Zappala
Andrew's punishment:

2007-10-20 20:56:26
217.   dzzrtRatt
214 Ned should offer him a one-year deal. I'd go for Lowell for one year, assuming he's surrounded by a healthy Furcal, a full year of Loney and Kemp, and at least a chance for Young to get some playing time. It's the out years of the kind of deal Lowell wants that would make me ill. So, don't offer 'em. Just say no.

There is no economic or baseball rationale for long-term deals, unless it's to lock down a star young player past his arb and FA eligibility years. There's got to be some MIT economist who can do a study to prove that. If you find one, tell him or her I'll do the PR for free.

2007-10-20 21:01:38
218.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.