Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Twice Around the Park with Chan Ho
2007-11-08 10:30
by Jon Weisman

Filling the Wilson Alvarez/Jose Lima/Scott Erickson/Aaron Sele veteran shot-in-the-dark slot at Dodger Spring Training next season could be an old friend.

Other sites are linking to the Kim Tong-hyung/Korea Times news that Chan Ho Park is saying he has signed a contract with the Dodgers to give him a chance to try out for the team in Spring Training.

"The terms of the contract are similar to a rookie on the start, but the important thing is that I will be able to play for a team that I always missed," Park said.

Park debuted for the Dodgers at the age of 21 in 1994. At his best, in 2000, he had a 133 ERA+ and 217 strikeouts in 226 innings for Los Angeles. But he has been below average since 2002, and made it into only one major league game last season.

Update: According to public relations director Josh Rawitch, Park hasn't signed, but it's heading that direction. It would be for a minor league deal with an invite to camp, but it's not a done deal.

* * *

According to David Pinto of Baseball Musings, the Dodgers still had great defense at shortstop last season, despite Rafael Furcal's bum ankle.

Comments (370)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-08 10:44:56
1.   D4P
made it into only one major league game last season which he gave up 7 earned runs in 4 innings, including 2 HRs. He did, however, have 4 Ks.

2007-11-08 10:46:06
2.   Wilbert Robinson
I wonder if this move was brought upon with the hope that Chan Ho Park coupled with Jeff Kent would form an indomitable alliance to end rookie hazing in baseball as we know it.
2007-11-08 10:46:11
3.   bhsportsguy
Anything to avoid the Kyle Lohses and Carlos Silvas of the pitching world, I am all for it.
2007-11-08 10:46:16
4.   Xeifrank
Did Park miss playing for the Dodgers, or all the good Korean restaraunts? Korean-BBQ... mmmmmmmmmm
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 10:48:33
5.   Bluebleeder87
Hopefully Chan Ho Park still has something left in the tank. When he was with the Dodgers the guy stayed in awesome shape. if I believed in reincarnation I would love coming back with Chan Ho Parks body, the guy was ripped when he played for the Dodgers.
2007-11-08 10:50:17
6.   Marty
4 Korean BBQ with unlimited kimchee. I'm in heaven
2007-11-08 10:50:42
7.   bhsportsguy
However, this move would seem to give the chances of Hendrickson sticking around more weight.
2007-11-08 10:51:02
8.   wireroom
So it looks like Vin finally gets his wish and it will be something "he see's in his lifetime," where all base coaches are required to wear batting helmets.
2007-11-08 10:51:48
9.   Wilbert Robinson
5 I hope that your reincarnated body doesn't end up on the Marshall report.
2007-11-08 10:51:56
10.   bhsportsguy
6 What's your favorite place?
2007-11-08 10:52:04
11.   D4P
Park has had an ERA+ over 100 in 5 of 14 MLB seasons, the last being 2001.
2007-11-08 10:53:28
12.   Jon Weisman
Thunder-stealing thread at Bronx Banter.
2007-11-08 10:53:33
13.   CajunDodger
Just for my review, 100 is league average right?
2007-11-08 10:53:52
14.   Marty
8 That's right. I heard the GMs all voted for first and third-base coaches to wear helmets.
2007-11-08 10:54:57
15.   D4P
Wow. Shaq is guaranteed $60 million over the next 3 seasons.

I knew the Lakers wouldn't get "equal value" by trading him, and that they would suffer in the immediate future following the trade, but I also knew they'd eventually be very glad they weren't paying him the maximum for not-so-maximum performance.

2007-11-08 10:57:20
16.   LogikReader
Jon that is an excellent pun you penned up there with the title.

Twice around the Park with Chan Ho... Fernando Tatis, Bases Loaded, same inning.

Anyone else catch that?

2007-11-08 10:58:20
17.   D4P
Yes, 100 is average.
2007-11-08 10:59:15
18.   Marty
10 Soot Bull Jeep in Koreatown. But I find myself going to one in Little Tokyo a lot because it's close. It's name appears to be just "Korean BBQ"
2007-11-08 11:02:58
19.   Disabled List
12 Susanna Hoffs was my contribution to the BB thread.

I heartily endorse your selection, though.

2007-11-08 11:03:37
20.   wireroom
14 Vin is right, those guys should wear a helmet. I would rather look funny then look dead.
2007-11-08 11:04:27
21.   bhsportsguy
18 We must have a pre-game meal there before the next DT game or any game.

I may not want to be in the same section if you have too much kimchee though.

2007-11-08 11:06:02
22.   bhsportsguy
12 Phoebe Cates.


Explain to me how Winnie Cooper and Dodger Thoughts are connected.

2007-11-08 11:06:18
23.   Xeifrank
21. I may show up just for the food. :)
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 11:07:18
24.   Xeifrank
22. We had a Wonder Years Thoughts chat day last offseason. vr, Xei
2007-11-08 11:10:58
25.   Marty
21 That's ok, we'd smell so much of smoke, no one would notice the kimchee
2007-11-08 11:13:29
26.   Xeifrank
Glad to see that base coaches are now going to be required to wear the batting helmets. If base runners wear them, then the coaches should too. I wonder if it will ever get to the point where pitchers will be required to wear some kind of protective equipment on their heads too? Seems like we have alot of near misses and eventually a pitcher will get nailed on his noggon. I witnessed a youth (teenage) pitcher get hit on the head by a line drive during batting practice and die many years ago.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 11:14:47
27.   wireroom
21 there is a DT Dodger game? I haven't been on this blog for that long, but that would be something to watch a Dodgers game with people as tortured by the Dodgers as myself.
2007-11-08 11:15:26
28.   jasonungar07
Good call on Phoebe Cates!! She was my first.

Life's the same I'm moving in stereo
Life's the same except for my shoes
Life's the same youre shakin like tremolo
Life's the same its all inside you

And I am so with you as well DL 19 as that pause and her look in the walk like an egyptian video got me everytime.

2007-11-08 11:15:46
29.   Bob Timmermann
The World Cup of Baseball thread is doomed! Doomed!
2007-11-08 11:17:18
30.   wireroom
26 that really is awful that you saw that happen. Over the years there have been some pretty horrible incidents where pitchers got hit in the bean. It is lucky that no one has been killed on the mound by a line drive.
2007-11-08 11:19:41
31.   Jon Weisman
16 - Believe it or not, it was unintentional.

550 in the last thread is worth a read, for those who were in on the Cabrera conversation.

2007-11-08 11:21:07
32.   ToyCannon
Keith Law on Miggy
"Miguel Cabrera
Cabrera's the big prize of the offseason, and the Marlins know it. They're looking for a bounty of major league-ready players mixed with some tools prospects like the haul they received for Josh Beckett two years ago this month. Whatever Cabrera's flaws, he's a plus hitter with 60-65 power (that is, well above average on the 20-80 scale) and excellent on-base ability. He's averaged 31½ homers over the past four years despite playing in a park that kills right-handed power.

On the downside, Cabrera is a terrible defensive player who belongs in left field, and his work ethic and off-field behavior are questionable, although new Yankees skipper Joe Girardi vouched for Cabrera's makeup the other day. Cabrera has two years to go until free agency, and will probably earn $26-30 million over those two years in arbitration unless he's signed to a long-term deal. If the acquiring team doesn't sign him, it'll be able to get two draft picks for him when he leaves, which probably isn't true for anyone else on this list. "

2007-11-08 11:23:12
33.   Jon Weisman
22 - It's complicated. Short version: I esteem both Winnie and Danica.
2007-11-08 11:24:32
34.   LogikReader

TC, you know... if we could somehow include Pierre in that trade, this might not be so bad.

The big difference between Arod and Cabrera is age. Cabrera is almost 10 years younger. So if you're gonna trade, it might as well be for a stud like Cabrera.

2007-11-08 11:25:46
35.   ToyCannon
To bad, I thought it was brilliant before your confession.
2007-11-08 11:26:43
36.   Jon Weisman

2007-11-08 11:27:54
37.   ToyCannon
Mike Nixon will be playing for ASU at linebacker against UCLA on Saturday. He was drafted 14 spots a head of Russel Martin in the 2002 draft and was supposed to be our catcher of the future. He retired in 2005 even though he reached AAA at the age of 21.
2007-11-08 11:30:07
38.   ToyCannon
Arod was also a slugging SS at age 24 not a 3rd baseman destined for the OF or 1st.
2007-11-08 11:31:56
39.   Marty
37 I've never heard that story. Why did he retire?
2007-11-08 11:32:28
40.   Jon Weisman
I e-mailed Josh Rawitch. According to him, Park hasn't signed, but it's heading that direction. It would be for a minor league deal with an invite to camp, but it's not a done deal.
2007-11-08 11:35:31
41.   Xeifrank
My AROD/MCAB pro/con post from SoSG the other day. Feel free to add. vr, Xei

1) Best player in MLB
2) Don't need to trade any talent to get him.
3) Breaks Bonds record on your team.

1) Too expensive.
2) Too many years.
3) In his late prime.

1) Top 5 players in MLB
2) Fairly cheap for one more year.
3) Prime years ahead of him.
4) Won't be quite as expensive as AROD when he hits free agency.

1) Must trade 3 young talented players.
2) conditioning concerns
3) will be expensive as a free agent or expensive if signed to an immediate long-term deal.

2007-11-08 11:35:40
42.   silverwidow
Only two new episodes of The Office left. :(
2007-11-08 11:36:02
43.   Jacob L
Soot Bull Jeep is awesome, but I haven't been there for a long time because, quite frankly, its dangerous for kids. Does anyone know of a Korean BBQ place that, like SBJ, uses real wood charcoal, but has better ventilation. There are other places I like (Corner Place at 9th and Westmoreland, fer instance), but they all use gas grills.
2007-11-08 11:36:24
44.   KG16
32 - I was thinking, the NL West hit the fewest home runs of any division in the NL last year (or at least averaged the fewest by teams, three teams hit 171 each, the Giants hit just a couple more than the Dodgers). So that would, in theory, mean more balls in play, right? Doesn't it, therefore, make sense for the Dodgers to have a good defense in the outfield?

With the unbalanced schedule and see each of those teams 15-20 times (at least that's what it feels like), I'm not sure the Dodgers can risk bad defense in the outfield next year. Well, I'm not sure they can risk bad defense anywhere next year, and if we are stuck with Pierre, then I think we've reached our limit on bad defensive outfielders... no matter what Caberra gives us on offense.

And to back that up, bad defense in the outfield means more runners getting on (at least in theory), which means more "pitcher's jams", which increases the likelihood that the Dodgers will have to go to the bullpen. That is a prospect I don't like until the 8th and 9th innings.

2007-11-08 11:40:17
45.   Raf
14 So will they wear helmets with or sans earflaps?

I'm hoping for the latter, meself...

2007-11-08 11:42:06
46.   Howard Fox
12 Joey Heatherton
2007-11-08 11:43:12
47.   Daniel Zappala
36 So in the 1966 World Series, the Orioles had 3 of the top 90 World Series pitching performances of all time against the Dodgers. Wow.
2007-11-08 11:44:03
48.   dzzrtRatt
31 What I like about TC's post there is his trade scenarios are doable. The Marlins would be getting excellent value. These are competitive offers the way he's structured them.

And Billingsley's off the table. He (and Martin, it goes without saying) would be my dealbreakers.

2007-11-08 11:44:41
49.   Jon Weisman
Mike Nixon story from 3/06

2007-11-08 11:46:32
50.   Jon Weisman
DT, 9/18/05:

Mike Nixon, Vero Beach/Las Vegas/Jacksonville, 6-3, 210, 8/17/83: Was rushed from Vero Beach to Las Vegas as a domino effect from the Dodgers' Paul Bako injury, and his OPS tumbled from .751 to .579. Ended the year with a 3-for-20 performance in Jacksonville, his likely destination in 2006.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-08 11:47:57
51.   Xeifrank
44. Here are the 2007 park factors for NL West stadiums (HR/3B). vr, Xei

Col: 1.218 / 1.513
Ari: 1.112 / 2.524
LAD: 1.052 / 0.583
SF: 0.808 / 1.364
SD: 0.685 / 1.042

The cavernous parks will be the ones with a high number of triples (lots of ground to cover and wierd angles). The one that sticks out is the triples at the park in Arizona, along with the way triples are supressed at Dodger Stadium.

2007-11-08 11:50:11
52.   Bob Timmermann
The "domino effect from the Paul Bako injury" was first proposed by George Kennan wasn't it?
2007-11-08 11:51:27
53.   Jon Weisman
52 - X!
2007-11-08 11:56:29
54.   ImprobableImpossible
I get a kick out of the fact that Jon called this a "palate-cleansing" thread. Then 31 posts into it, pointed us back to the previous course. I guess Chan Ho doesn't inspire the masses.
2007-11-08 12:02:16
55.   wireroom
54 His sweet karate jump kicks inspire me!
2007-11-08 12:03:51
56.   dzzrtRatt
Yeah, I think Chan Ho will make Scott Erickson look good by comparison. He's so far past his sell-by date. That's not kimchee you're smelling.

I don't see Joe giving the same deference that Tracy gave Erickson or Sele.

2007-11-08 12:04:37
57.   Bob Timmermann
"X" proposed the idea that the Dodgers need to contain expansionism by the Angels into their territory and this should be accomplished by aggressive spending and a permanent presence in Germany.
2007-11-08 12:05:49
58.   D4P
For Daniel:

The school voucher scheme in Utah failed. Here's what the "leading supporter of the voucher effort" had to say about people like Daniel who voted against it:

"They don't care enough about their kids. They care an awful lot about this system, this bureaucracy, but they don't care enough about their kids to think outside the box"

2007-11-08 12:10:07
59.   Jon Weisman
54 - By palate-cleansing, I really meant message-counter-reseting.
2007-11-08 12:11:02
60.   ToyCannon
The 2007 DT game

The 2006 DT game

We won both games.

2007-11-08 12:12:29
61.   Bluebleeder87
Vin is right, those guys should wear a helmet.

Helmets make you look uncool but your right I rather look dorky then dead.

2007-11-08 12:13:11
62.   Bob Timmermann
Page 60 of this pdf document is for Xeifrank:

Or people who are otherwise interested in such matters, but I think we are the only two.

It is tangentially baseball related.

2007-11-08 12:16:43
63.   regfairfield
61 That would be a good tagline for a PSA.
2007-11-08 12:18:02
64.   Bluebleeder87

I arrived late to this years DT gathering but ScareDuck/Rob McMullin got me on the group picture he took late in the game. It's cool though cause DT'rs are 2 & 0 (MOJO!) when we're all gathered at the same time.

2007-11-08 12:19:26
65.   Andrew Shimmin
Finely we know who was speaking Cantonese in the clubhouse, destroying the team Chemistry. Kim Ng/Wu!
2007-11-08 12:19:28
66.   wireroom
60 hey thanks for letting me have a look at all of your mugs. From the looks of it, you guys were maybe sitting in the infield reserve?
2007-11-08 12:20:40
67.   Linkmeister
57 But when are the Dodgers going to explode their own A-bomb? The Angels did that with the acquisition of Vlad.

Arms race!

2007-11-08 12:20:48
68.   dzzrtRatt
60 That 2007 game, besides being great fun, turned out to be an almost novelistic moment in the 2007 season. When we met with McCourt, the Dodgers had either the best or second-best record in the NL, maybe in the MLB. The young guys were starting to really get more playing time, but the old guys hadn't started slumping. And so there was Frank, happy as a clam, talking about how everyone was on the same page, feeling like, I've finally figured this thing out, as I knew I would, smart businessman that I am. The run of championships under my watch could start now!

Then the tide went out. Way way out.

2007-11-08 12:21:04
69.   Daniel Zappala
58 Even worse, the guy who put all the money behind the voucher campaign said, basically, that "the voters in Utah failed an IQ test".
2007-11-08 12:21:57
70.   Greg Brock
68 The stupid door should have told us everything.


2007-11-08 12:23:32
71.   D4P
Yeah, I almost included that part of the quote too.
2007-11-08 12:24:21
72.   Jon Weisman
68 - "an almost novelistic moment in the 2007 season"

So true.

2007-11-08 12:25:05
73.   Andrew Shimmin
Finely, indeed. Stupid spellcheck, letting me use a correctly spelled word that isn't the one I want.
2007-11-08 12:26:48
74.   Greg Brock
67 Curtis LeMay thinks we should just bomb the hell out of Anaheim.
2007-11-08 12:26:54
75.   bhsportsguy
70 Now you say something. :)
2007-11-08 12:27:22
76.   wireroom
68 how did you guys get to meet McCourt? It sounds like you had a great time.
2007-11-08 12:28:55
77.   bhsportsguy
72 Not that he would have answered it directly but I do think the one question I would ask now is why don't the Dodgers treat the draft as something they can take advantage of (money wise) as opposed to adhering to something that no one can really enforce.

And there has got to be a better way to phrase that question.

2007-11-08 12:31:10
78.   bhsportsguy
76 It was because we show him the respect he deserves here on DT.

How many rules did I just break.

Seriously, it was due to Jon's relationship with Josh R. (head Dodger PR guy), who does lurk here, and their respect for the site.

2007-11-08 12:31:19
79.   D4P
Non-spoiler episode summary for the season finale of "Tell Me You Love Me":

May gets devastating news, but decides not to cancel her therapy appointments. Jamie and Hugo reconnect, for better or for worse. Palek's blunt revelation at May's office shocks Carolyn. Having confronted the crossroads and challenges of their marriage for some time, Dave and Katie finally make a breakthrough.

1. I'm guessing May's news has to do with John. Maybe he died. Maybe he committed suicide because she rejected him. BTW: How long ago did their indiscretions supposedly take place?

2. From what I hear, the finale is great.

2007-11-08 12:35:01
80.   ToyCannon
Your just not rolling with any crowd.

As I missed the meeting, it was my understanding that everyone glad handed McCourt and somehow swallowed their tongues when compared to how they write with their quills. Being good guests that is how it should have been but I've often wondered how it would have gone if they had verbalized what they wanted to ask.

2007-11-08 12:35:27
81.   wireroom
78 That's cool. I thought you were going to say McCourt was walking around with a beer or something talking to fans. That would have been a great coincidence.
2007-11-08 12:36:11
82.   bigcpa
79 How is it that I've seen every episode and I don't know the names of any characters? I think because I hate the show.
2007-11-08 12:36:43
83.   bhsportsguy
80 Part of it was due to the setting. Also, for me, since I felt I was there only because of Jon, I, for one, wasn't going to do anything to upset the cart so to speak.
2007-11-08 12:37:54
84.   Eric Stephen
68 The highlight for me (besides suggesting to Josh Rawitch the "Juan For Five" nickname) was Suffering Bruin high-fiving every single DT member, somehow even those not in attendance, after Kemp's HR.

The Dodgers were indeed in 1st place on that day, and ended the day with the best record in the NL at 55-43, a half game ahead of both the Brewers and Mets.

The lineup featured Loney, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, and Betemit. And we rejoiced.

And bhsportsguy's cookies were great too.

2007-11-08 12:38:39
85.   dzzrtRatt
82 Certainly you can't have missed that the Satan-y looking guy is named "Palek."

Otherwise, you're right.

However, I no longer "hate" the show. I hate myself for watching it. The show's improved, but I haven't.

2007-11-08 12:38:46
86.   D4P
Why do you watch it if you hate it?
2007-11-08 12:39:18
87.   bhsportsguy
84 Thanks, oh and how was your first hockey game, I'm assuming you had no rooting interest.

80 For Jon's take of the day go to,

2007-11-08 12:40:39
88.   Marty
Nice LeMay reference. I remember reading his diatribes in the 70's when I worked at a small 10000 watt Glendale newspaper.
2007-11-08 12:40:56
89.   Eric Stephen
80 Part of it was out of respect to Jon (as said in 83 ), and part of it was that I think only 5 questions got asked to McCourt yet he had 10-minute answers for each.

To McCourt's credit, he did seem sincere in person even though it was probably just stock material.

2007-11-08 12:41:38
90.   gvette
Chan Ho Park?


Is he bringing Ismael Valdez and Antonio Osuna with him to Spring Training?

2007-11-08 12:41:54
91.   dzzrtRatt
83 As I recall, I asked him a question he didn't seem to like. But I can't remember exactly what it was. Something like, "Where do you think you're still learning?" Anyway, he scowled at me.

I think the group showed due deference to McCourt mostly because they wanted to make Josh look good. Josh really extended himself and was the mensch of all mensches.

2007-11-08 12:42:07
92.   Terry A
81 - Interestingly, McCourt was seen that day carrying a small statue of the fans.
2007-11-08 12:42:31
93.   Marty
I'm still trying to remember who I was sitting next to.
2007-11-08 12:42:54
94.   Jon Weisman
83 et al - In part, I wanted all the others to get their chance to speak to McCourt before I stepped in. In part, there was a feeling that we shouldn't go on the attack, given that they didn't have to invite us there to begin with. In part, things were looking good for the team at that time. But most of all, McCourt talks a lot without stopping and tended to make every question, easy or hard, what he wanted it to be.

I do wish we had gotten more pointed questions across.

2007-11-08 12:43:51
95.   TheBigGrabowski
80 I also think everyone was confused as to what exactly McCourt was going to do. When he came in I wasn't sure if he had some statement or something, or if he was just going to talk.

It also seemed like Josh got most of the Juan Pierre talk.

2007-11-08 12:44:28
96.   ToyCannon
My wife wouldn't let me go to the pre-meeting, she was afraid I'd embarrass the group and I'd lose the right to post here.
She has no idea I embarrass myself daily here.

Speaking of that, on the BB thread this was my response:
What can I say. It was the 1st "adult" TV show I ever saw and at the age of 7 I was bewitched by Elizabeth Montgomery while eating ice cream after having my tonsils removed.

2007-11-08 12:45:59
97.   Bob Timmermann's editors were asleep at the switch with this. They left their editing mark inside an article that they posted online:

"Segui, who acknowledges he has used a synthetic form of HGH under a doctor's supervision since being diagnosed with a growth hormone deficiency in 2003 [SHOULD BE 2001], says he thought nothing of the exchange until a few months later, when Grimsley was busted and his affidavit sped through baseball circles faster than a Josh Beckett heater."

2007-11-08 12:46:38
98.   regfairfield
90 Because we lost William Juarez and Spike Lundberg to free agency. Vegas needs a back end of the rotation too.
2007-11-08 12:47:04
99.   Eric Stephen
87 The NHL experience was cool (get it!), and you're right, I had no rooting interest. Even though the Ducks lost 5-0 to the Stars, it was still an entertaining game.

I found myself rooting for the Anaheim forward Parros, or as we were calling him, "The 'Stache". That made even a blowout entertaining.

Also, I had no idea that essentially cheerleaders come out every 5 game minutes or so (every timeout) to clean the ice. That was a nice surprise! :)

The only downside was not getting home until 11:30. NHL is definitely better in person though.

2007-11-08 12:47:15
100.   regfairfield
Losing Juarez also confirms that all we got for Shawn Green was Mark Hendrickson.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-08 12:48:34
101.   D4P

Why is it "OK" to use steroids/HGH/etc. to address physical problems when you're under doctor's order, but not otherwise? Don't you get an "unfair advantage" under either scenario? Why is it less unfair if a doctor prescribed the drugs?

2007-11-08 12:48:45
102.   Jon Weisman
87 - From that post:

Whether it's due to Colletti, assistant general manager/scouting Logan White or underrated vice president/assistant general manager Kim Ng, the Dodgers have a pennant contender. That doesn't mean that the team hasn't made mistakes in the personnel department. Every team makes mistakes, of course, and no one expects perfection. But what kind of system do the Dodgers have in place to evaluate their personnel decisions and determine which transactions went south because of bad luck and which because of faulty - but improvable - reasoning?

This is a question I wanted to ask at the session, but unfortunately, I held off. Even if I had asked it, however, I don't know how meaningful an answer I would have gotten, because McCourt is not the type to do a lot of public introspection when things are going well.

Wins and losses are what matter in the end for a baseball team, but wins and losses aren't the best indicator of whether a general manager is doing the best job possible. When McCourt tells me that he has complete faith in Colletti, does that imply he believes Colletti will know how to improve his performance from the B or whatever grade he merits? Or does it imply that he thinks Colletti deserves an A? This is all immediately pertinent with Tuesday's trading deadline testing Colletti's judgment anew.

2007-11-08 12:48:48
103.   Eric Stephen
93 Well played.
2007-11-08 12:51:01
104.   Eric Stephen
Also, here is a rough transcript of an excerpt of DT Day:

DT Questioner (I forgot whom): Who is your best hi-

McCourt: NED!!!

2007-11-08 12:54:43
105.   bigcpa
86 I guess I watch it like a trainwreck. My wife and I have a bet about whether the husband with e.d. is actually gay.
2007-11-08 12:55:39
106.   Marty
I've been to one hockey game in my life, A Kings game sometime in the early 80's. I went with a rabid hockey/New York Rangers fan. I've never been so bored in my life. But even my friend said it was the worst game she had ever seen in her life.
2007-11-08 12:55:49
107.   GMac In The 909
54 A-Rod, I mean, Chan Ho for a buck.
2007-11-08 12:56:57
108.   Bob Timmermann
The women coming on to the ice with shovels is a relatively new change. Maintaining the integrity of the ice surface is a big challenge and the "cheerleaders" are removing the buildup of "snow" from the ice.

In Sun Belt cities, most ice surfaces are pretty bad toward the end of the game. That's one reason why the overtime is so short. And the penalty shot tiebreakers are best of three.

2007-11-08 12:58:58
109.   Bob Timmermann
I plan on attending a hockey game when I'm on vacation in Munich in January. It's the only sport going on in Munich at the time. The Bundesliga takes January off.

No chance to root for "gritty underdog" Bayern Munich.

I don't believe Munich has a pro basketball team, although there is a pro league in Germany.

2007-11-08 12:59:49
110.   D4P
I'm not aware of a husband on the show with "e.d.". I assume you mean Dave. It seems pretty clear by now that he doesn't have e.d., and also that he's not gay. He just no longer views Katie as a lover, though that could presumably change.
2007-11-08 13:01:04
111.   bigcpa
The Dodgers and Angels are competing for two of the best hitters in the game, and you people are talking hockey.
2007-11-08 13:02:34
112.   Xeifrank
62. Thanks Bob.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 13:02:55
113.   ToyCannon
Cheerleaders on ice got my attention.
2007-11-08 13:02:57
114.   JoeyP
Epstein and Schilling discussing possible 6-man starting rotation for Red Sox:

2007-11-08 13:03:24
115.   D4P
We never count our money when we're sittin' at the table. There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.
2007-11-08 13:04:47
116.   bigcpa
110 Well whatever his problem is the wife's behavior is totally unrealistic. She's about to explode with frustration in the early episodes. Then once things are out in the open she's all smiley and giddy even though nothing's been resolved. It's so hard to separate the bad writing from bad directing and bad acting.
2007-11-08 13:04:53
117.   Greg Brock
111 I doubt the Dodgers are seriously looking at Alex Rodriguez. It's fun to tinker with lineups and talk money and all that, but he's not going to be a Dodger.

Cabrera, on the other hand...I could see that.

2007-11-08 13:07:21
118.   Jim Hitchcock
6 We'll need scuba gear to converse with Marty :)
2007-11-08 13:07:54
119.   D4P
It's so hard to separate the bad writing from bad directing and bad acting

I like the writing, directing, and acting.

I suppose wide-ranging evaluations are to be expected when something is so different from the norm.

2007-11-08 13:11:24
120.   bigcpa
117 What will you say if the Angels beat us to Cabrera and exit the bidding for AROD? Now the price drops and McCourt's need to answer Arte rises.
2007-11-08 13:13:21
121.   Eric Stephen
117 Agreed. Most likely course of action involves the following:

1) Sign Torii Hunter for CF
2) Move Pierre to LF
3) Trade for Cabrera (LaRoche, Kershaw & Ethier/Kemp)
4) The leftover of Kemp/Ethier starts in RF
5) Sign Kuroda and/or Wolf as SP surplus

2007-11-08 13:17:42
122.   Greg Brock
120 Why would the Dodgers feel the need to compete with the Angels? They're not in the NL West.

And if that were true, then McCourt would have felt the need to compete with the Angels in the past. And I think we can all agree that if McCourt has tried to compete with Moreno, he's gotten it handed to him for the past four years. He's not good at it.

2007-11-08 13:17:50
123.   Jon Weisman
116 - "she's all smiley and giddy"

Are we watching the same show?

2007-11-08 13:19:02
124.   bhsportsguy
121 I never thought I would see more than 2 regular posters advocate dealing LaRoche,(Ethier/Kemp) and some guy that I don't think exists for anyone.
2007-11-08 13:19:15
125.   Xeifrank
121. I don't see too many teams able to beat that offer for MCAB. vr, Xei
2007-11-08 13:20:35
126.   Greg Brock
124 This is why we don't talk about him.

Him who? Nobody. That's who.

2007-11-08 13:20:54
127.   bhsportsguy
122 Except in the pocket book my friend.
2007-11-08 13:21:06
128.   Xeifrank
If the NBA playoffs started today, the Lakers and Clippers would be playing in the first round (#8 vs #1). And we all know that a four or five game regular season is the perfect sample size. :)
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 13:30:14
129.   Eric Stephen
124 I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying that is a probable action by the Dodgers.

For Cabrera, I'd give up a lot, but not Kemp, LaRoche, and Minotaur.

2007-11-08 13:31:34
130.   LogikReader
Even to this day, a Clippers/Lakers playoff series alludes us.
2007-11-08 13:32:51
131.   Eric Stephen
130 If only the Lakers could have closed out Phoenix in 2006! Stupid Tim Thomas and his stupid 3-pointer.
2007-11-08 13:33:55
132.   dzzrtRatt
128 Hey thanks for reminding me. On the "crapshoot" question, I've shifted over to thinking the entire post-season is an exhibition, purely for entertainment like the All-Star game.

The beautiful way in which statistics reflect quality and predict achievement is a feature of the 162-game season. It's only a factor in the post-season.

With the unbalanced schedule and other things, we'll never really know who the champ of the regular season is. But winning your division should be a more celebrated achievement than it is, and getting first seed by virtue of the best league record is another strong sign of a team's success. This season, Boston was clearly the best team in the AL, and in the NL there was more of a muddle involving five teams really, one of which didn't make the playoffs. The post-season happened to follow form this season, but in other years it has not. Like, all the years the Wild Card team won the Series. Or like 2006.

That's why the idea that Joe Torre became a failure after 2000 is silly, and that's why the dominant NL team in the 90s and early 00's was clearly Atlanta. Yes, the Marlins won more WS than the Braves during that span, but does anyone put them on the Braves' level? The Marlins couldn't best them in a 162 game season, not even once.

There's no putting the genie back in the bottle, but the fact is, the WS hasn't been as meaningful since the divisions were created. The last real WS was 1968 (and it was a classic!) The problem with the post season was demonstrated in the very first year, when my beloved 1969 Mets were declared World Champs. Right.

If I were a GM, the fans would hate me because I would build a team to win the regular season, and just take my chances in the post-season. That's the only ethical way to play it.

2007-11-08 13:40:55
133.   driches
i'm a little late to the party, but how 1. good and 2. plausible is this scenario:

1. Trade Pierre (and eat 1/2 of salary), La Roche, and a top pitching prospect for Cabrera

2. Sign Cabrera longterm (does $20mil/year sound right?)

3. Sign Andruw for center (around $15mil?)

Then you get Cabrera and Jones for about the same price as A-Rod. I think a lineup of


has to be either the 2nd best (behind RedSox) or 3rd best (behind Mets) in the majors.

2007-11-08 13:43:33
134.   regfairfield
133 Anything that involves trading Pierre is probably completely implausible. To the Marlins especially.
2007-11-08 13:44:31
135.   ImprobableImpossible
I'm afraid that any scenario that begins with "Trade Pierre..." is good, but not at all plausible.
2007-11-08 13:45:16
136.   ImprobableImpossible
Yeah, what he said.
2007-11-08 13:46:27
137.   Kevin Lewis

Isn't that lineup automatically better than Boston because the name Lugo is missing?

2007-11-08 13:46:30
138.   driches
okay, how about the same thing but keeping pierre and inserting ethier. obviously not optimal, but i think still as good a plan as any if pierre has to remain...
2007-11-08 13:47:16
139.   trainwreck
Yeah, if Ned is going anti-Boras then Hunter seems like a real possibility.
2007-11-08 13:51:25
140.   bhsportsguy
Interesting article on Baseball Analyst regarding advancing the extra base on balls hit to centerfied (1st to 3rd on a single, scoring from second on a single, etc.)

It appears that generally, the success rate regardless of the CF is 97% when a runner tries to take the extra base. However, runners only take that chance about 40% of the time.

Now am I guessing for Pierre, that number is statiscally 100% based on his number of assists but in a reality, how many extra runs did that cost the Dodgers? Did base runners take more opportunities than the average against the Dodgers and again how many more times was that.

The author will try to equate to wins and losses in tomorrow's edition.

2007-11-08 13:52:23
141.   blue22
134 - To the Marlins especially.

Why do you say this?

2007-11-08 13:53:04
142.   Xeifrank
138. Then you are just the same as post #121.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 13:54:57
143.   Xeifrank
141. My guess is that $5mil for Florida does not fit into their standard operating procedures. Still too expensive for them. They are the poster child for cheap talent. Pierre does not fit that bill.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 13:56:15
144.   dzzrtRatt
If we keep Pierre, maybe Cabrera will eat him.
2007-11-08 13:58:34
145.   goofus
133 Sounds familiar. same thing I proposed about 5 hours ago, almost same batting order. And I probably wasn't even the first. How about we offer Cabrera 5 years/$65M and Jones 5 years?$75M, with opt-outs after 3 years? Opt-outs really turn Boras on, he'll look upon it as a chance to really juice their stats in the next three years and then ditch us. Fine. If we want we can re-sign them. Or look for replacements. If they tank, they might not opt-out but with Boras, you never know....
2007-11-08 14:00:31
146.   sporky
144 That made my day.
2007-11-08 14:01:01
147.   Jon Weisman
144 - LOL :)
2007-11-08 14:02:31
148.   Andrew Shimmin
How many arepas could you make from one Pierre? Or, better yet, it could be one Guinness Book of World Records sized arepa.
2007-11-08 14:02:58
149.   sporky
I'm late to the Korean BBQ party, but if you're brave enough, you can try it at home. Korean supermarkets often sell marinated kalbi/bulgogi.
2007-11-08 14:04:08
150.   trainwreck
Mmmm, Korean BBQ.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-08 14:07:22
151.   wireroom
140 I would agree with that, but I don't have the stats to prove it. It seems like how deep the ball is hit and where it is hit makes the most difference in runners being able to advance. I think the most important thing is for the outfielders to get to the ball. I know I will take flack for this, but I actually liked JP's year the second half.
Regardless of what anyone hopes, he is here for a while(probably) and he may settle into his position
2007-11-08 14:09:08
152.   KG16
51 - ok, I'll admit it, I have no idea how park factors work, so I really don't know what those numbers mean. But if I am reading those right, a triple is more likely than a home run in most NL West parks? What about doubles? And the chance for doubles to turn into triples?

If I'm understanding those numbers correctly, outfield defense is going to matter in the NL West. If we were going crazy last year with the Adventures of Juan Pierre in Centerfield™, what would it be like with Pierre and Caberra in the outfield?

101 - because you're using the drugs for their intended purpose. If the guys using it on a prescription aren't allowed to use it, they wouldn't be able to physically perform. It's like saying a guy has a cold and takes some Sudafed so he can play, is that "performance enhancing"? He'd obviously play better with a clear head, no?

2007-11-08 14:09:33
153.   ImprobableImpossible
We should have had Saenz do that last year. It would have been his second best highlight.
And it was implausible then too.
2007-11-08 14:09:58
154.   Marty
If we chicken-fried Pierre like bacon, I bet Miggy would eat it.
2007-11-08 14:11:39
155.   regfairfield
152 No, those numbers are relative to the average for each of those. For example a .9 in home runs and a 1.1 in triples means that the park produces 90% of home runs that an average park would, and 110% of the triples.
2007-11-08 14:13:41
156.   KG16
140 - That's interesting. There are a lot of factors to consider on that 40% number: where the ball is hit, where the centerfielder was playing, the centerfielder's throwing ability, the thridbaseman/catcher's ability to catch the ball and make the play, and the runner's speed (Furcal/Pierre running vs Kent/LuGo). Not to mention the score of the game and the number of outs.
2007-11-08 14:14:18
157.   CajunDodger
Then pay it all...
2007-11-08 14:16:03
158.   LogikReader
Hooray for the White Sox!

Hooray for all the Socks! I hope they pursue their direction, then two of the big "placeholders" will be out of Ned's hands.

2007-11-08 14:17:02
159.   KG16
155 - so then, triples are more likely to be hit in NL West ball parks? I think it still supports my hypothesis that outfield defense is going to be more important in the NL West, even if I misunderstood the evidence.
2007-11-08 14:18:17
160.   njr

I just spit soup all over my computer. That's gonna make me laugh for a while.

2007-11-08 14:21:07
161.   ImprobableImpossible
Quick, someone go hit a few 9-irons from the Stadium grass (and don't replace your divots.)
2007-11-08 14:22:07
162.   underdog
144 Or use him as an after-dinner toothpick.

As Diane Weist's character said in Bullets Over Broadway, "Dooon't speak! Dooon't... speak" -- of trading the Minotaur.

2007-11-08 14:23:55
163.   CajunDodger
144 162
Someone just came into my office and asked me what was so funny...
2007-11-08 14:27:55
164.   CajunDodger
Headline at SOSG:

Colletti Loses Mind; Signs Chan Ho Park

Good day for the funnybone.

2007-11-08 14:30:10
165.   das411
Ahahahahaha i love this title Jon! I remember like it was yesterday one night that a certain #25 went "Twice Around the Park with Chan Ho"!

(now to read all the comments and see if anyone else caught that...)

2007-11-08 14:32:23
166.   Sam DC
154: Where exactly does the CBA come down on that, I wonder?
2007-11-08 14:33:30
167.   KG16
166 - I think it requires the use of extra virgin olive oil if you are going to deep fry any player.
2007-11-08 14:35:24
168.   LogikReader
das411 is in for a treat.

With Hunter and Lowell seemingly out of the way (see 158 ) the big remaining FA blunder appears to be Lohse.. or maybe Corey Patterson.

2007-11-08 14:36:58
169.   Xeifrank
159. In general you are correct. NL West parks are more triple than home run friendly, except for Dodger stadium. Dodger stadium is very very stingy on triples. One could then argue that since the Dodgers play half their games in a triple stingy park that the outfield defense is a little less important. But Colorado and Arizona cannot make that claim.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 14:37:15
170.   Jim Hitchcock
Reasons to be careful when working with your woodchipper:

2007-11-08 14:40:36
171.   CajunDodger
I still think that Colletti is drinking a beer in his suite thinking...

"Cabrera...too many prospects. ARod...Boras is a meanie. LaRoche...too inexperienced."

"Hold ON!!! PEDRO FELIZ!!! I'm a genius! I wonder if he'll take $30 million for two years."

2007-11-08 14:40:59
172.   KG16
169 - do we have splits on those numbers for home and road teams? I curious because I would think that the make up of a team could drastically affect those numbers in their home park.
2007-11-08 14:46:19
173.   Daniel Zappala
171 I'm curious what it would take you to at least be neutral on Colletti or even to think he's done a good job. Are you satisfied if the Dodgers start spring training with Kemp, Loney, and LaRoche all still on the team? A-Rod signed? Cabrera traded for using a decent collection of prospects, without gutting the team, and then signed to an extension? Pierre off the team? At what point will you be comfortable with him? Or is the answer never?
2007-11-08 14:47:36
174.   Greg Brock
I wouldn't be making jokes about Pedro Feliz. We made jokes about a certain speedy CF last winter. A lot less funny three weeks later when he signed.
2007-11-08 14:53:32
175.   Andrew Shimmin
Just to be clear, homeruns are hit more often than triples in every single ballpark. There were 53 total triples hit in Arizona last year (home and visitors together), but 179 total homeruns. Park factor numbers are only comparable within categories, not between them.
2007-11-08 14:55:41
176.   trainwreck
I think Feliz's average stinks too much for Ned. Ned loves the average.
2007-11-08 14:58:13
177.   D4P
Ned loves the average

In more ways than one.

2007-11-08 15:02:01
178.   Greg Brock
Ooooh, 11 free agents are in the Mitchell report.
2007-11-08 15:02:06
179.   KG16
Sportscenter is reporting that 11 current free agents are named in the Mitchel Report.
2007-11-08 15:02:30
180.   KG16
178 five seconds? dang
2007-11-08 15:03:21
181.   ssjames
I bet that I can name one:

Barry Bonds?

2007-11-08 15:03:36
182.   trainwreck
Good thing I refreshed the page before I posted. I was beaten twice.
2007-11-08 15:03:47
183.   Xeifrank
175. Yes, thanks if that was not clear before.

172. Those things are all taken into consideration. But there is some variation in park factors from year to year (though nothing staggering), based on sample sizes. Dodger Stadium has always supressed triples since I started following the stat. I believe it was part of the argument/praise made by some people as to the Derek Lowe signing a few years ago. His tendancy not to give up home runs and the parks tendancy not to give up triples bode well. History will be the judge.

vr, Xei

2007-11-08 15:03:55
184.   CajunDodger
Not sure if you mean me in particular, but if you do, here you go:

1) Don't overreact. Acquire players that are needed and fit into a coherent plan. Lugo, Pierre, and the resigning of Nomar to block Loney were mistakes, plain and simple.
2) Articulate a plan to the fans and follow it.
3) Learn to work with Boras. You don't have to sign his people, but he will be representing ARod, Texeria, Holliday, and others in the near future. Suck it up and put personal rancor over JD Drew aside.
4) If ARod and a reasonably priced Miggy (LaRoche, Ethier, and McDonald or something similar) are not able to be acquired, give LaRoche a legit shot at playing time and don't acquire someone like Joe Crede or Scott Rolen on the downslope of their careers.

The thing that I find most galling about Ned is his unpredictability. He could go get ARod and work a brilliant move for Dan Haren or Scott Kazmir. Or he could sign Pedro Feliz and Lohse.

Each option is equally plausible.

2007-11-08 15:07:16
185.   airforceone
In order to get Cabrera, the Dodgers will be asked t give up more than any other team. The Yankees have already made their top three rookie pitchers untouchable. The Dodgers are in a great position to sign a free agent while at most giving up a 2nd round draft choice. They should retain all of their top rookies and sign a free agent or two even if it means paying a little more. They've got to hold on to LaRoche, Kemp, and Kershaw for another year.
2007-11-08 15:07:30
186.   LogikReader
I was getting excited about that report, but they didn't name any of the 11.
2007-11-08 15:08:31
187.   Lexinthedena
Arepas are not good...

Like a pupusa but gritty and a cornmeal hockey Venezuela they have some pretty disgusting fillings too...

I know it's all relative...but ewwwww.

2007-11-08 15:09:18
188.   Greg Brock
186 We already know about Jose Guillen.

So it's ten anonymous people we'll know about tomorrow.

2007-11-08 15:10:06
189.   Lexinthedena
So the base coaches are gonna wear helmets?...I'm sure I'm late on this, but I can see Vin smiling, and it makes me happy....
2007-11-08 15:10:22
190.   Hallux Valgus
188 what about Bonds and Cameron?
2007-11-08 15:12:13
191.   trainwreck
Cameron was just amphetamines.
2007-11-08 15:13:23
192.   Daniel Zappala
184 I guess I make the distinction between terrible mistakes and easily fixed errors. The only terrible mistake Colletti's made is Pierre. Nomar was easily fixed by bringing up Loney to play 1B anyway. Lugo was a blip on the radar. He hasn't traded away any key young players yet.

I'm not saying I think he's a great GM, but I also don't hate him or have fatalistic thoughts about this offseason.

2007-11-08 15:13:50
193.   Hallux Valgus
dang. there's got to be somewhere I can bet on this. I wonder what kind of odds I can get on Ramon Martinez.
2007-11-08 15:14:54
194.   ssjames
As for other free agents who may make up the 11:

Another certain name: Sammy Sosa.

A likely name (although I am sad about it): Gagne. :(

2007-11-08 15:18:22
195.   Xeifrank
185. I'm all for it, but who are the free agents you would sign? I'm not crazy about Pierre moving to LF.
AROD, AJones, Hunter??
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 15:18:58
196.   Greg Brock
192 Fatalistic Thoughts would be a terrible baseball blog. The comments section would be depressing.

"This sucks"
"We're gonna lose"
"Nothing ever works out for us"

2007-11-08 15:20:29
197.   Hallux Valgus
196 sounds like a Phillies blog
2007-11-08 15:21:00
198.   GMac In The 909
196 That sounds a lot like
2007-11-08 15:21:34
199.   LogikReader

I got a real kick out of that, so funny :)

2007-11-08 15:21:42
200.   Gen3Blue
124 It must be a hallucination.

Here is hoping anyway, at least where a potential front line starter is concerned.
At this point pitching is so much more important and rare than any offensive player.....Clubs that "club" their way into the play-offs without a big Ace are usually done quickly.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-11-08 15:24:26
201.   ImprobableImpossible
Are you gonna change your name back?
2007-11-08 15:26:24
202.   GMac In The 909
201 To "GMac In The 909"?
2007-11-08 15:30:05
203.   airforceone
Xeifrank. As much as I would hate to spend the amount of money that AROD would demand, I think the Dodgers are better off getting him than trading the top rookies. I don't believe the Braves will offer arbitration to Jones, so waiting that process out might be the best alternative. I think Hunter is also a viable alternative. I feel LF may be a better position for Pierre than CF. Of course trading him is a better alternative, though remote.
2007-11-08 15:31:38
204.   Daniel Zappala
196 That is hilarious. Thank heaven for Greg Brock. I worry that too many people are fatalistic about Colletti, but as long as Brock is around, I'm happy.
2007-11-08 15:31:40
205.   Greg Brock
203 Moving him to CF is only remotely acceptable if you get corner outfielder numbers from your CF. Which means at least 30 home runs and 35-40 doubles. If Kemp played CF, you could do that.
2007-11-08 15:33:32
206.   Greg Brock
204 You could always adopt me. I'm in dire need of the financial security right now.
2007-11-08 15:35:14
207.   CajunDodger
Your point is well taken in that we turned Lugo into Chris Withrow, but I would disagree about Nomar. He is not easily fixed. Had we played Loney and not signed him, Betemit would have been with us to the end of the season with about $8.5 million left in the till. Nomar will probably be a $9 million bench player for us this year, and our current payroll would be about $80 million. Plenty of room for ARod if needed.
2007-11-08 15:35:19
208.   trainwreck
Oh, lord. Riddick Bowe wants to get into MMA. That guy's brain does not need anymore damage.
2007-11-08 15:35:50
209.   D4P
You could always adopt me

"Eighteen is enough, to fill our lives with love!"

2007-11-08 15:37:29
210.   Greg Brock
Daniel gains three more imaginary kids every time I log in. I thought we were at thirteen?
2007-11-08 15:37:34
211.   Bluebleeder87

I really feel the very long season makes them take those measures, I really do. From everything I've read guys that are in tip top shape take them cause there body just gives out during a long season (I've read & heard of many players who I wouldn't imagine taking "greenies" take them just to cope with the LONG SEASON) I say shorten the season & you'll eliminate the use by at least half, guaranteed.

2007-11-08 15:37:38
212.   Howard Fox
171 Coletti will offer Feliz $35mm for 2 years...cause after a while of his thinking about $30mm for 2 years, he'll decide that he heard someone floating that out there and bid it up...
2007-11-08 15:39:26
213.   Andrew Shimmin
192- I still maintain that Colletti shouldn't be given credit for making the decision not to pick his nose with an acetylene torch more than once. I agree that the Pierre signing is the worst thing he's done, and that it deserves its own category of infamy, but it should be balanced (to the extent that its able to be) against what Colletti actually has done--not some theoretical dystopia.

Colletti brought in Saito. He got 3.5 for a player everybody knew he had to get rid of. He signed Furcal to a short, big money contract. He got Merlin for a beautiful couple of months. That's what he's accomplished. It's not half bad, because Saito and Merlin are/were so peculiarly amazing. But that's it. Everything else has been unimportant, mixed, bad, or Pierre.

2007-11-08 15:42:29
214.   Andrew Shimmin
Andruw Jones is a type B free agent, so the Dodgers wouldn't lose a pick for signing him. The Braves would get a sandwich pick if they offer arbitration, or (I think; somebody will correct me on this if I'm wrong) if he's signed before the arb. deadline.
2007-11-08 15:42:48
215.   Howard Fox
213 we'll see what you say about him when he gives up our youngsters for the food tasting committee
2007-11-08 15:43:37
216.   Howard Fox
214 and I know just the person to give that sandwich to
2007-11-08 15:44:11
217.   ImprobableImpossible
Psshh, yeah.
2007-11-08 15:44:27
218.   bigcpa
213 I would add the Schmidt signing to the positives. The backlash on that one is all hindsight. Getting him on a 3-year deal with guys like Meche getting 5-year deals was a great play. The fact that he got hurt is even more reason to praise the short-term deal.
2007-11-08 15:44:48
219.   regfairfield
Would you all hate me if I said that Pedro Feliz would be a nice guy to have on the bench?
2007-11-08 15:45:24
220.   Xeifrank
213. Schmidt happened too. Though that book is yet finished.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 15:46:18
221.   dzzrtRatt
203 I'd love to get ARod. The economic impact on me will be small, so ARod is the guy who lets us get better at 3B without giving up any of our prospects. My one concern is: How badly does Scott Boras want to torture the Dodgers. This thing could go on till after New Year's. Arod knows he's going to catch on someplace, and maybe if he's out there long enough, Boras figures the Yankees get back into it -- if they fail to land someone else to play his old position.

Cabrera is, in my opinion, almost as special a player, but 10 years younger. And we can get him now. It's much easier dealing with Larry Beinfest than Scott Boras. It will cost us at least a pair of beloved prospects plus additional bodies, but we're getting back someone who we know almost without doubt will outplay any one of them over the course of his career.

So my argument for Cabrera over ARod comes down to one of those cliches.... bird in the hand... don't step over dollars to get a nickel... I'm not sure which one applies.

If we are outbid on Cabrera, then we can focus on ARod. Whoever gets Cabrera will drop out of the Arod sweepstakes, so that's a more propitious time to negotiate for him anyway.

I think we need to pretend that Arod does not enter the market until January 1 because for all practical purposes, that's going to be the case. He's not there. What do we do? There's an opportunity to get Cabrera. What's the price? And go from there.

If we pass on both, we still have LaRoche. Smile!

2007-11-08 15:47:01
222.   Bluebleeder87

Hopefully Nomar bounces back but if not even better it gives a legitimate shot at La Roche.

2007-11-08 15:47:03
223.   dzzrtRatt
221 Actually 8 years younger.
2007-11-08 15:47:07
224.   Greg Brock
219 Yes.

Why would he be a better option than Abreu, Young, or anybody else? And he's old. And he would tempt others into playing him. Because he's some sort of sorcerer in that regard.

2007-11-08 15:48:38
225.   GMac In The 909
217 I would if I knew how. It appears I'm stuck with 714 unless I sign up for a new account.
2007-11-08 15:48:40
226.   Xeifrank
221. Does AROD benefit from being one of the last FAs to sign / chips to fall? Will Boras wait for Lowell to sign, Cabrera to possibly be traded before getting serious? There are only a few possible suitors and if most of them fatten up their payroll or solidify their thirdbase options, what kind of leverage will Boras be left with?
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 15:49:40
227.   regfairfield
224 True, the "would recieve play time" part of the equation is bad. But, he plays amazing defense and can provide power off the bench. I don't see what would be the downside of signing him to a one year contract would be if it didn't stop you from doing anything else.
2007-11-08 15:49:45
228.   Disabled List
Besides Bonds and Sosa, here's a few other big-name FAs I'm betting are listed in the Mitchell Report: Clemens, Gagne, Andruw Jones.

Mike Piazza is also a FA. I really hope he's not in there.

2007-11-08 15:50:33
229.   blue22
219 - He's a phenomenal defensive player. That has value. In fact, if it wasn't for Nomar hanging around, I might actually lobby to sign Feliz.
2007-11-08 15:50:40
230.   Bluebleeder87

We can always go the A-Rod route your right DzzrtRatt.

2007-11-08 15:50:47
231.   ImprobableImpossible
Whatever. When Flanders trades Kemp for Crede (or something like that), you'll be glad to represent the 714.
2007-11-08 15:51:52
232.   D4P
here's a few other big-name FAs I'm betting are listed in the Mitchell Report: Clemens, Gagne, Andruw Jones

Check, check, and check.

2007-11-08 15:51:57
233.   Greg Brock
227 I want total clarity at third base. Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera, or Andy LaRoche. No wily vet able to coax playing time if LaRoche struggles out of the gate.

Feliz and his diabolical siren song could woo Joe Torre.

2007-11-08 15:52:23
234.   StolenMonkey86
I would have guessed that just from seeing Furcal near the top of the Range Factor charts at shortstop and the Dodgers near the top of the team K/9 charts.
2007-11-08 15:52:44
235.   StolenMonkey86
The fact that we have good defense at short thing, that is.
2007-11-08 15:53:35
236.   blue22
233 - Wily Nomar is still on the team next year...
2007-11-08 15:54:05
237.   regfairfield
233 Yeah, I guess he can't come with a stern lecture. Dang reality.
2007-11-08 15:54:22
238.   StolenMonkey86
219 - No, I'd hate Ned Colletti, and I'd hate Joe Torre when Feliz winds up with 500 PA at the end of the year.
2007-11-08 15:54:33
239.   Bluebleeder87
I wouldn't mind having La Roche play 2nd base for the next decade once old man Kent retires, I don't know why but I've been getting visions of him playing that position lately.
2007-11-08 15:54:36
240.   dzzrtRatt
226 If I'm Boras, I'm thinking I need to let a few things play out. Basically, my strategy is to get the Yankees back into the bidding, or at least appear to get them back. If the Yanks get Lowell or Cabrera, they're out for sure, and so he'll have to deal with that. But right now, they're saying they're out, and that makes Boras unhappy. As I've almost Rule 8'd by this time, Boras is not relishing a bidding war between San Francisco and Anaheim. Not a lot of dirty sexy money there. But as of now that's what he's looking at. Better to wait and see if he can entice more teams into the bidding, especially the Steinbrenners, but also LAD.

I don't buy the Mets being in this at all, BTW.

2007-11-08 15:56:33
241.   Andrew Shimmin
But if we start grading Colletti for what he was thinking when he made moves, we've got big problems. At least I do, since, while I have the power to read minds, his frightens me. There's a mirror on the ceiling of his mind, and it's not there to inspect his bald spot. Did he bail on Aybar because he knew there was going to be trouble? Did he have any clue how good Saito would be? Merlin would have to be taken out of the pro-Colletti side of the ledger, since there's no way he could have guessed that might happen. I was trying to be as objective as possible (objectively the Schmidt contract is mixed at best).
2007-11-08 15:56:56
242.   Greg Brock
236 Yeah. We already have Pedro Feliz with less pop.
2007-11-08 15:58:33
243.   dzzrtRatt
Who's "Merlin?" I thought that was Maddux, but in the context of 241 that doesn't make sense.
2007-11-08 15:58:35
244.   StolenMonkey86
239 - Could it be A-Rod, or shoulder issues?
2007-11-08 15:59:40
245.   Bluebleeder87
Of course we would have to package Etanislao (way better defense from him) to another team for that to happen. You know what come to think of it I rather have Abreau playing 2nd base, scratch my 239 out.
2007-11-08 15:59:56
246.   StolenMonkey86
243 -
2007-11-08 16:00:07
247.   Andrew Shimmin
243- The greatest hitter in Dodger history: Marlon Anderson.
2007-11-08 16:00:24
248.   regfairfield
242 And no defense, which is the main reason I want him.

243 Marlon Anderson.

2007-11-08 16:01:15
249.   GMac In The 909
231 Let's make one thing clear: I am never going to root for an AL team ... unless of course said team is playing The Bad Guys™ in the World Series.

However, I have no problem supporting the Los Angeles Angels of Rancho Cucamonga on Thursday nights.

2007-11-08 16:01:16
250.   blue22
242 - I'd take Feliz over Nomar in a heartbeat. Feliz doesn't have the PVL cache that Nomar has (so no starting position birthright), can actually play SS, and is the best defensive 3B in the league. Neither can hit.

But I won't take both. And we already have Nomar. And there I go arguing in circles again.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-11-08 16:01:17
251.   Andrew Shimmin
I didn't think of Maddux. He belongs in the list. Plus the team got better by getting rid of Izturis. So that's a nice little twofer I left off.
2007-11-08 16:02:44
252.   Bluebleeder87

Merlin "The Magician" Anderson, He was part of the 4+1 game.

2007-11-08 16:03:46
253.   StolenMonkey86
3 out of 5 active players that played for the University of South Alabama have been Dodgers under the tenure of Ned Colletti.

I wonder if Colletti will pursue Jon Lieber now.

2007-11-08 16:06:39
254.   Jon Weisman
De la Hoya charges the mound!,1,3467627.story?

2007-11-08 16:10:57
255.   CajunDodger

Real positives (intended or not)
Maddux trade
Furcal signing
Marlon Anderson
Not trading a single prospect that has had great success with another team.

Real Negatives
Nomar Resigning
Betemit Trade (I may be alone on that one)
Tomko signing
Schmidt (No guarantee he will ever pitch wearing Blue)
Not signing our 5th round pick this year to above slot dollars.

Mind-Boggling Neo-Sadist Moves
Juan Pierre

2007-11-08 16:12:24
256.   Xeifrank
NE Patriots are now listed as EVEN money to go 16-0.
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 16:12:37
257.   Howard Fox
240 I really don't think Boras cares who signs his clients, as long as he gets his price. Whether its SF or LAA or LAD or whomever, as long as its $350 for 10, he doesn't care.
2007-11-08 16:13:44
258.   GMac In The 909
201 Abracadabra. Now you see 714, now you don't.

Thirsty Thursdays, here I come!

2007-11-08 16:14:04
259.   Bob Timmermann
Who killed Davey Moore?
2007-11-08 16:14:08
260.   D4P
NE Patriots are now listed as EVEN money to go 16-0

I guess cheaters sometimes win.

2007-11-08 16:14:53
261.   Howard Fox
260 you spend too much time listening to ESPN in the morning
2007-11-08 16:15:14
262.   ImprobableImpossible
On the undercard, light heavyweight non-title bout:

Jeff "Papa Wheelie" Kent vs. Matt "Bison" Kemp

2007-11-08 16:15:37
263.   Xeifrank
257. Of course, but if it's a bidding war between the Giants and LA Angels he probably isn't going to get "his price".
vr, Xei
2007-11-08 16:16:10
264.   CajunDodger
I'll take Kemp in the 4th.
2007-11-08 16:16:56
265.   D4P
Is "zero" too much...?
2007-11-08 16:17:57
266.   FirstMohican
I really don't get why Ned gets so much credit for Saito or Marlon. They seem like no-brainers or decent moves at best.

Also, regarding Schmidt, Ned deserves credit regarding the length of the contract, but it was a gamble that many teams were reportedly not willing to take. Should it really be remembered as a good move? I think neutral at best.

My favorite Ned move so far is Maddux. Either was also up there.

Overall, I'd so far say Ned's really got a ton to prove with his future FA signings.

2007-11-08 16:17:58
267.   Howard Fox
265 good answer
2007-11-08 16:20:51
268.   Greg Brock
Kemp's reach would dominate Kent. Plus, he has way more lateral movement and quicker reflexes. He could jab Kent to death, Larry Holmes style.

Plus, he's stronger. Jab, jab, left hook to the body, left hook upstairs, and that's all she wrote.

2007-11-08 16:22:05
269.   Eric Stephen
259 Why and what's the reason for?

I had no idea that was at Dodger Stadium. Hey, let's look at the upside. Davey Moore dies in 1963...same year the Dodgers swept the Yankees in the WS.

If it takes Oscar or some other pugilist to croak to bring another crown to the boys in blue, I'll be a pallbearer!

2007-11-08 16:24:12
270.   underdog
I'm sure this was suggested multiple times earlier, but... aren't the Marlins looking for a centerfielder? Isn't Pierre best friends with Dontrelle? Didn't he like his time in Florida? Just sayin'... Say, "No Kemp, but we'll give you Pierre and eat some of his contract, and LaRoche, and McDonald and... er..."


Btw, Office fans and those interested in the WGA strike will want to check out this:
"The writing staff of The Office shot on the picket line this informative and funny YouTube piece explaining why they're part of the WGA strike."

2007-11-08 16:24:28
271.   FirstMohican
268 - Kent's an grumpy middle-aged guy, and he has kids. He has way more to lose. I'll still take Kemp, but Kent's toughness might be underrated.
2007-11-08 16:25:59
272.   Eric Stephen
270 Screen Jam!
2007-11-08 16:26:50
273.   Jon Weisman
266 - Does Ned get "so much" credit for Saito or Marlon? Or does he get a decent amount of credit. Or, really, very little at all.

I'll say this much. Based on what I knew, I wouldn't have paid Saito a dime to come to Spring Training in 2006. So I don't have problem tipping my hat to Ned on that one.

You can call those free throws if you like, but you still need to make some free throws to win. It really doesn't hurt the big-picture evaluation of Ned to say yeah, Saito was a good pickup.

2007-11-08 16:27:36
274.   Andrew Shimmin
255- If you're putting the Betemit deal in there, then I guess it's implicit that the Tampa Bay trades were bad too, but they deserve their own line item. A year and a half of Mark Hendrickson, with cameos from a disgruntled reserve catcher, CMC Baez, and a guest spot by Lance Carter is the statutory punishment for usury in Micronesia.

And, repeating myself for the last time, asking for credit for not trading the crown jewels is like Elaine wanting special treatment for not killing the telephone company worker who came to her apartment, even though nobody would have known he was gone.

2007-11-08 16:29:25
275.   Eric Stephen
273 I wouldn't have paid Saito a dime...

I wonder why dime is always used instead of penny? That always struck me as weird, given that the relative worth of the two coins.

2007-11-08 16:29:30
276.   Tangled Up in Blue
I just heard on ESPN that 11 free agents will be named in the Mitchell Report. Oh the suspense!
2007-11-08 16:30:52
277.   Hallux Valgus
we're expecting between 2k and 4k WGA strikers outside my office tomorrow. And I'm already half insane from the honking
2007-11-08 16:31:38
278.   Greg Brock
275 If we used up all the pennies, how would we buy people's thoughts?
2007-11-08 16:32:22
279.   ImprobableImpossible
Who's up for some completely irresponsible guessing of the Mitchell 11??

Jose Guillen is one of them. That leaves 10.

2007-11-08 16:32:57
280.   Tangled Up in Blue
255 Where does the Luis Gonzalez signing lie?
2007-11-08 16:33:11
281.   LogikReader
It's like deja vu all over again
2007-11-08 16:37:07
282.   Andrew Shimmin
Also, it should be noted that by signing Schmdit, we essentially gave the Giants Timothy Alderson. He has a 21.60 K/9 in professional baseball. That may come down, when he pitches more than five innings, but, you never know!
2007-11-08 16:37:45
283.   Jon Weisman
275 - More linguistically pleasing. Solid one-syllable word.
2007-11-08 16:37:56
284.   Greg Brock
279 Roger Clemens, Eric Gagne, Andruw Jones, Barry Bonds, Bartolo Colon, Russ Ortiz, Brad Wilkerson, Paul Byrd, and two other guys.
2007-11-08 16:38:23
285.   Jon Weisman
Larry Bowa, via Ken Gurnick:

"Believe me, we'll get inside their heads. It's important they learn how to win, to do the little things. Guys get caught up in stats. The sooner we get rid of the individual things, the sooner we'll get them to thinking of how to win as a team."

2007-11-08 16:39:28
286.   Bluebleeder87
If it wasn't for Pierre I'd give Ned o.k. grades, as it stands I'm neutral.
2007-11-08 16:39:54
287.   CajunDodger
I think Ned deserves some credit for the kids still being here. That means that he listens to Logan and Kim (at least a little) and there are lots of GMs not smart to hold pat on prospects: Paul Konerko, Chris Young, Liriano-Nathan-Bonser, etc. Look at the Taveras trade that Colorado pulled off.
2007-11-08 16:41:04
288.   Greg Brock
285 Larry Bowa, instantly unpopular at Dodger Thoughts.
2007-11-08 16:41:15
289.   Jon Weisman
279 - Not to be a party pooper, but could we skip that?
2007-11-08 16:41:40
290.   natepurcell

I still don't understand old men baseball lingo.

2007-11-08 16:41:50
291.   Jon Weisman
274 - I do give Elaine credit for that. It had to be tempting.
2007-11-08 16:41:51
292.   blue22
285 - Yay, more hitting to the right side! Fire up your Olney Counters for next year.
2007-11-08 16:42:59
293.   ImprobableImpossible
I think if there were any really sexy names, they would have leaked already. Ismael Valdez and Matt Williams are outed this week and they've been out of baseball for years.

I'll randomly say... Tony Batista, Doug Brocail, Miguel Cairo, Shawn Chacon. Jeff DaVanon, DeAngelo Jimenez, Jorge Julio, Jason LaRue, Luis Vizcaino, Brad Wilkerson.

2007-11-08 16:43:23
294.   underdog
272 I Screen Jammed it.

285 I wonder how constrictive Bowa will be...?
Seriously, I think he'll be a good presence for the young 'uns.

2007-11-08 16:43:53
295.   ImprobableImpossible
Sorry, Jon. Please delete 293.
2007-11-08 16:44:32
296.   GMac In The 909
279 I am hoping Luis Gonzalez is one of them.
2007-11-08 16:44:59
297.   Howard Fox
284 Sammy Sosa?
2007-11-08 16:45:05
298.   trainwreck
I am surprised no one has mentioned our own, Luis Gonzalez.

I wish they would hurry up and release this report.

2007-11-08 16:45:23
299.   Bill Crain
I think a tree fell in the forest.
2007-11-08 16:46:03
300.   GMac In The 909
289 Noted a few seconds too late.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-11-08 16:46:43
301.   Howard Fox
299 but no one was there, so did it make any sound?
2007-11-08 16:48:58
302.   underdog
Btw, I don't see the problem with inviting Chan Ho Park to a minor league contract and spring tryout. If he's got nothing left I'd expect they'd tell him and be done with it. No harm done. Of course, that didn't stop Brett Tomko and some others from making the team, but never mind that.
2007-11-08 16:50:15
303.   KG16
285 /290 - the loose translation is that the only stat that matters is the final score. If you win 1-0 on a base hit, stolen base, and two sacrifices, it's still a win; same as if you win 10-8 with 4 home runs.

Practically, what it means is that you don't swing for the fences when you're leading off an inning, you look to put the ball in play, get on base, and score runs. You play loose, not trying to do too much. Which really, was the approach of the Yankees most of the last 12 years at the plate (at least in the few games I got to see).

2007-11-08 16:54:43
304.   Bill Crain
My guess, that's not what Larry was thinking.

My second guess, Larry doesn't spend a lot of time actually doing any thinking.

2007-11-08 16:56:19
305.   Andrew Shimmin
287- Alright. I've been won over. Now I think we're being too chintzy. Here's a list of other things Colletti deserves credit for not doing:

-Keying Vin Scully's car.
-Ordering 100 sardine pizzas delivered to the visiting team's locker room, with Lasorda's credit card.
-Selling Avon products in the locker room.
-Selling team equipment on eBay.
-Having his picture silk screened on every piece of fabric in the stadium
-Repurposing the Dodgers computer network for sending herbal ED treatment spam.

2007-11-08 16:57:42
306.   jasonungar07
In watching the dodgers last year did any of you feel that anyone was just playing for stats?? PVL or Kid?
2007-11-08 16:58:20
307.   Jon Weisman
294 - above or below where I posted it yesterday? :)
2007-11-08 17:00:32
308.   ToyCannon
LaRoche leads Team USA to 2nd victory.
2007-11-08 17:01:02
309.   KG16
306 - LuGo was obviously interested in getting to 2500 hits. I think there's been some documented evidence of Kent "playing" second because he knows with his stats it's his best way to the HOF.

Other than that, I don't think so.

I do recall a couple of times when guys came up and were swinging for the fences (there were a couple times when I thought Russell was going to come out of his cleats on swings), when they should have just been trying to make contact.

2007-11-08 17:04:24
310.   ToyCannon
Isn't Larry Bowa's tempermant the reason why no one wanted Terry Collins to manage the Dodgers? Isn't Scott Rolen a Cardinal because of Larry Bowa?
2007-11-08 17:09:26
311.   Marty
I think Larry Bowa is the most dangerous part of this whole Torre deal. He's an old school nutjob isn't he? At least Yardwork thinks so.

What if it's Bowa being groomed to replace Torre?

2007-11-08 17:10:43
312.   Fallout
255 CajunDodger
>>>Betemit Trade (I may be alone on that one)<<<

Cannon agrees with you.

2007-11-08 17:12:34
313.   dzzrtRatt
309 Seems to me some of the clutchiest at-bats by Loney or Kemp resulted in singles. I can't think of one time where either of them were swinging for the fences except in situations where that was clearly the best option (i.e. we needed a lot of runs in a hurry.) I remember mostly being pleased by the results when either of those guys came to bat in important situations.

LuGo was an obvious clubhouse problem, but as a hitter he came through pretty frequently.

The big flops when it comes to self-sacrificing at-bats (Olneys and the rest) were Pierre and Nomar, to the best of my recollection. And the pitchers. Some of our pitchers swung lamely at ball four more than a few times.

The problems hitting seemed to be that once the slump started in late July or August, almost everybody was pressing and not getting it done.

2007-11-08 17:12:48
314.   Bill Crain
Actually, Bowa is being groomed to replace Don Zimmer.
2007-11-08 17:12:53
315.   natepurcell

Bowa is like 70 years old. He doesn't really need anymore grooming.

2007-11-08 17:14:08
316.   underdog
307 Argh. Sorry. It's been a long week, did I mention that?

311 I was worried about Bowa, too, but honestly I've heard really good things about his coaching from a lot of Yankee fans. I'd be more worried about him as a manager than a coach. I don't think he's being groomed to take over. It'd be Mattingly if they're grooming anyone.

2007-11-08 17:15:06
317.   jasonungar07
Bowa reminds me of Kent, just a more talkative one.
2007-11-08 17:15:14
318.   Howard Fox
314 how do you he being fitted for a metal plate?
2007-11-08 17:15:40
319.   Bill Crain
So, you think Larry Bowa is well-groomed?
2007-11-08 17:16:07
320.   Howard Fox
they'll groom mattingly, then in 3 years conduct a search and hire someone else
2007-11-08 17:16:19
321.   Marty
318 And people say you aren't funny.
2007-11-08 17:16:59
322.   LAT
Been out of town and off line for a few days but I just read the education thread. Ratt your 155 there was so on point in every aspect. I don't want to start the discussion all over but I want to let you know it struck a chord.

(Further proof that High School is brutal)

2007-11-08 17:17:49
323.   Bill Crain
First time in my life I can type this honestly:


2007-11-08 17:18:19
324.   underdog
Grooming Mattingly, grooming Zimmer... what are the Dodgers, my cats?
2007-11-08 17:18:23
325.   Howard Fox
321 and those people are wrong, and if you don't believe me, just ask me, I'll tell ya...
2007-11-08 17:19:13
326.   Howard Fox
324 please don't tell me they are licking themselves...
2007-11-08 17:20:33
327.   KG16
313 - yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that sentiment. I should have been more clear in 309 , I don't think LuGo chasing 2500 was a bad thing, and my thoughts on Kent are well documented. I think for the most part, guys weren't swinging for the fences (and generally, I don't like it when guys do that, anyway). You're probably right about players pressing when the slump began.
2007-11-08 17:21:39
328.   ToyCannon
I hate darkness at 5:21
2007-11-08 17:23:19
329.   Howard Fox
I don't know what kind of a manager Torre will be here, or how his coaches and staff will be, but for me it will be more fun.

I just could never warm up to the good old country boy schtick of Little, for me it just didn't play well in LA...

2007-11-08 17:24:24
330.   KG16
329 - it definitely helps to be bigger than life when it comes to LA sports.
2007-11-08 17:24:31
331.   underdog
326 They licked themselves pretty well in 2007.
2007-11-08 17:24:50
332.   LAT
328. It certianly makes me want to leave the office earlier.
2007-11-08 17:26:16
333.   StolenMonkey86
255 - Betemit Trade (I may be alone on that one)

I'm right with you there. I was hoping for a fight to the death between Betemit and LaRoche. But now Joe Torre can send Scott Proctor to the mound in the 7th inning every day.

2007-11-08 17:33:25
334.   underdog
And btw, does anyone seriously think Bowa could be a worse 3rd base coach than Rich Donnelly? I mean, c'mon, perspective check, folks...
2007-11-08 17:34:23
335.   Howard Fox
334 you are right...Kent and Kemp can ignore him just as well as they ignored Donnelly
2007-11-08 17:37:32
336.   StolenMonkey86
I heard Larry Bowa actually has a stop sign.
2007-11-08 17:40:45
337.   Gen3Blue
255 Not trading a single prospect who has had great success with another team. If we can say that a year or two from now it will be a wonderful miracle.

D4P you are generally an excellent and inciteful commenter, and while because I'm not into football I really don't care that much about the Pats, my bandwagon team, you seem really obsessed with hating them.
It is seeming a bit irrational, but I guess I can understand, given my feelings for Boras. Everyone is entitled to one or two.

2007-11-08 17:42:10
338.   Bill Crain
I've finally figured out the one move Ned Colletti could make that would convince me he really is a smart guy and capable of doing a great job for the Dodgers. He's just got to trade himself to the Pirates for Neal Huntington.

2007-11-08 17:46:36
339.   Gen3Blue
334 Has to be an improvement. Take the two out at home play. In the corperate world I once kept my head down in, that would have led to at least two firings.
2007-11-08 17:49:34
340.   Bluebleeder87

I've heard he is actually a very good 3rd base coach.

2007-11-08 17:50:39
341.   Howard Fox
[337 generally an excellent and inciteful commenter

and insightful as well....

2007-11-08 17:52:29
342.   StolenMonkey86
337, 341 - I was waiting for Andrew to make some remarks about D4P always stirring up trouble. :)
2007-11-08 17:52:34
343.   Bill Crain
I would trust Larry Bowa to coach third or any other base.

I really wouldn't want him coaching any of the players.

2007-11-08 17:54:52
344.   Howard Fox
bowa reminds me of the drill sargeant in stripes...well, maybe not...
2007-11-08 17:56:05
345.   Greg Brock
344 Lighten up, Francis.
2007-11-08 17:58:01
346.   Bluebleeder87
There is a very nice Torre interview on HBO "Real sports with Bryant Gumble" airing every few days worth checking out. It's before the fact (although Bob Costas hits that Torre will end up with the Dodgers at the end of the segment) but still a very nice interview, judging from the interview Torre still has a lot of fire in the belly.
2007-11-08 17:58:48
347.   D4P
I think Andrew was too busy secretly commiserating with Gen3 over the "correctly spelled but incorrectly used word" thing.

It really cuts him to the bone.

2007-11-08 18:00:29
348.   El Lay Dave
346 Imagine how much fire there could be in Miguel Cabrera's belly.
2007-11-08 18:02:10
349.   El Lay Dave
335 The first time Kemp runs through a Bowa stop sign, Larry will challenge him to a fistfight. (I'm taking Kemp over the old man.) I seem to recall that in his playing days, the word used most often to describe him was "feisty".
2007-11-08 18:03:43
350.   El Lay Dave
2008 Chan Ho Park = 2007 Joe Mays. That's as much as I think I need to ponder that move.

How about Troy Percival as one of the fungible middle relievers? Next season's Rudy Seanez?

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-11-08 18:05:50
351.   Bluebleeder87
Looking at the photo gallery at Dodgers.Com, Tommy Lasorda has a huge fan base, wow.
2007-11-08 18:07:09
352.   El Lay Dave
351 "fan base" wasn't the words I was expecting to follow ....
2007-11-08 18:07:17
353.   El Lay Dave
351 "fan base" wasn't the words I was expecting to follow ....
2007-11-08 18:08:35
354.   D4P
""fan base" wasn't the words I was expecting to follow ...." wasn't the words I was expecting to follow 352
2007-11-08 18:10:13
355.   Daniel Zappala
I got an alumni email from my high school today, telling me that last year's game against their arch-rival drew 25,000 people to Anaheim Stadium. Do other high schools in LA draw crowds this big? Is California out-classing Texas when it comes to high school football?
2007-11-08 18:13:46
356.   Bluebleeder87

There is a nice little rivalry in the eastern part of Los Angeles (Garfield versus Roosevelt) that gets HUGE crowds, I'm thinking it's a little over 25k but I'm not sure.

2007-11-08 18:16:19
357.   Jon Weisman
350 - Joe Mays - that's the name that was escaping me!
2007-11-08 18:22:43
358.   Izzy
I like Bowa alot. Not for what he is, per say, but for the part that he can play on the team. He can ride guys that are lazy and might fly an attitude and he won't give a rip what they think. He'll be in their face, and I suspect that's what a few of them need. That keeps Torre exactly where he needs to be. I could change my mind later, but so far I'm liking it.
2007-11-08 18:26:06
359.   Gen3Blue
Damn--I hate being the goat in spelling.
But I have always been a rather poor speller.
2007-11-08 18:28:11
360.   Dodgers49
Commentary: Memo to L.A. teams:
A-Rod is A-Ripoff

>> Dodgers owner Frank McCourt was asked at the Joe Torre press conference Monday if he could conceive of a situation where he would be spending $35 million a year on a single player.

"I can't answer that question yes or no," he said. "If Ned (Colletti, GM) and Joe were to come to me and say, 'This is what we think is smart, this is what we think is strategic, this is what we think is wise in order to win now and continue to build on that foundation we now have in place,' I'm going to be all ears." <<

2007-11-08 18:29:44
361.   Sam DC
I haven't clicked the link, but I'll admit, I'm having trouble figuring out an answer to that question that I'd like better.
2007-11-08 18:32:32
362.   El Lay Dave
356 Yes, they play that game at East LA College. I think that stadium holds a little under 25,000 and it's usually at capacity for that game. I went there once for a Franklin - Eagle Rock game; I'm sure the "crowd" was at least 15 times smaller.
2007-11-08 18:37:24
363.   Bob Timmermann
25,000 for a regular season high school game in Southern California?

Really? That's a big crowd even for a sectional championship.

The biggest crowd for any regular season high school game in Southern California is for the East L.A. Classic between Garfield and Roosevelt. I think they can squeeze about that many into ELAC.

Most high school football teams in Southern California don't draw more fans than just the parents and the marching band, unless it's a homecoming game.

There are a few pockets where schools draw well, but the fans and parents here in California haven't turned into Buddy Garrity yet.

2007-11-08 18:38:25
364.   El Lay Dave
360 Some things Dilbeck wrote don't make much sense (I guess he's putting Pierre in LF, if Kemp is traded for Miggy and Hunter is signed for CF, leaving Ethier in RF), but I will draw optimism from part of what McCourt said in the quote you pulled:

" order to win now and continue to build on that foundation we now have in place... "

2007-11-08 18:39:25
365.   El Lay Dave
362 ... 25 times smaller ...
2007-11-08 18:44:59
366.   El Lay Dave
363 According to:

"Seating is offered on both sides of the bowl with a total of 20,355 permanent bench seats. There is room to comfortably accommodate 2,000 for standing room, although this total has been exceeded many times."

"It is perhaps best known, however, as the long-time site of the East Los Angeles Classic football match-up between Garfield and Roosevelt high schools, which have drawn crowds in excess of 25,000."

2007-11-08 18:55:31
367.   Jon Weisman
2007-11-08 18:56:03
368.   Daniel Zappala
363 This is the email I got. I have attended this game in the past, at both Cal State Fullerton and Anaheim Stadium and they do get a lot of people, but of course I never counted.

As you know, the Servite Friar football team will be playing against the Mater Dei Monarchs this Friday night at Angel Stadium. It has been a long time since we've beaten them, and the environment promises to be an electric one. Last year, there were about 25,000 people there and the game was as thrilling as it could possibly be. Unfortunately, the Friars were defeated. But it was not for lack of effort, heart or support.

2007-11-08 19:02:27
369.   Frip
Speaking of high school ball. I live in Upland and was talking to a guy at the local Outback Steakhouse bar the other night. Turns out his son is the kicker for Upland High Scool. Big deal?

OK, this kid is a freshmen, 15 years old, and he can kick a 60 yard field goal. His name is Jake Van Ginkel, and you'll remember this post one day when he's the best kicker in the NFL. I talked to his dad at a bar. Does that make me a hero? I like to think so.

The Wall Street Journal did an article on high school kickers, and a YouTube news segment on Jake, here is the link:

2007-11-08 19:31:10
370.   natepurcell

new latimes Miggy Article...

"[Forget] the veterans," Cabrera told the Palm Beach Post. "They haven't told me anything and they better not come tell me anything, either. I don't want to hear anything else. I want to play baseball, give what I have to give on the field of play and win. That's all I want."

No respect for PVL!!!

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.