...in which he gave up 7 earned runs in 4 innings, including 2 HRs. He did, however, have 4 Ks.

I knew the Lakers wouldn't get "equal value" by trading him, and that they would suffer in the immediate future following the trade, but I also knew they'd eventually be very glad they weren't paying him the maximum for not-so-maximum performance.

Twice around the Park with Chan Ho... Fernando Tatis, Bases Loaded, same inning.

Anyone else catch that?

I heartily endorse your selection, though.

I may not want to be in the same section if you have too much kimchee though.

Nice.

Explain to me how Winnie Cooper and Dodger Thoughts are connected.

Life's the same I'm moving in stereo
Life's the same except for my shoes
Life's the same youre shakin like tremolo
Life's the same its all inside you

And I am so with you as well DL 19 as that pause and her look in the walk like an egyptian video got me everytime.

550 in the last thread is worth a read, for those who were in on the Cabrera conversation.

On the downside, Cabrera is a terrible defensive player who belongs in left field, and his work ethic and off-field behavior are questionable, although new Yankees skipper Joe Girardi vouched for Cabrera's makeup the other day. Cabrera has two years to go until free agency, and will probably earn $26-30 million over those two years in arbitration unless he's signed to a long-term deal. If the acquiring team doesn't sign him, it'll be able to get two draft picks for him when he leaves, which probably isn't true for anyone else on this list. "

TC, you know... if we could somehow include Pierre in that trade, this might not be so bad.

The big difference between Arod and Cabrera is age. Cabrera is almost 10 years younger. So if you're gonna trade, it might as well be for a stud like Cabrera.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/411

AROD
Pros:
1) Best player in MLB
2) Don't need to trade any talent to get him.
3) Breaks Bonds record on your team.

Cons:
1) Too expensive.
2) Too many years.
3) In his late prime.

M.Cabrera
Pros:
1) Top 5 players in MLB
2) Fairly cheap for one more year.
3) Prime years ahead of him.
4) Won't be quite as expensive as AROD when he hits free agency.

Cons:
1) Must trade 3 young talented players.
2) conditioning concerns
3) will be expensive as a free agent or expensive if signed to an immediate long-term deal.

With the unbalanced schedule and see each of those teams 15-20 times (at least that's what it feels like), I'm not sure the Dodgers can risk bad defense in the outfield next year. Well, I'm not sure they can risk bad defense anywhere next year, and if we are stuck with Pierre, then I think we've reached our limit on bad defensive outfielders... no matter what Caberra gives us on offense.

And to back that up, bad defense in the outfield means more runners getting on (at least in theory), which means more "pitcher's jams", which increases the likelihood that the Dodgers will have to go to the bullpen. That is a prospect I don't like until the 8th and 9th innings.

I'm hoping for the latter, meself...

And Billingsley's off the table. He (and Martin, it goes without saying) would be my dealbreakers.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0327asufoot0327.html

Mike Nixon, Vero Beach/Las Vegas/Jacksonville, 6-3, 210, 8/17/83: Was rushed from Vero Beach to Las Vegas as a domino effect from the Dodgers' Paul Bako injury, and his OPS tumbled from .751 to .579. Ended the year with a 3-for-20 performance in Jacksonville, his likely destination in 2006.

Col: 1.218 / 1.513
Ari: 1.112 / 2.524
LAD: 1.052 / 0.583
SF: 0.808 / 1.364
SD: 0.685 / 1.042

The cavernous parks will be the ones with a high number of triples (lots of ground to cover and wierd angles). The one that sticks out is the triples at the park in Arizona, along with the way triples are supressed at Dodger Stadium.

I don't see Joe giving the same deference that Tracy gave Erickson or Sele.

The school voucher scheme in Utah failed. Here's what the "leading supporter of the voucher effort" had to say about people like Daniel who voted against it:

"They don't care enough about their kids. They care an awful lot about this system, this bureaucracy, but they don't care enough about their kids to think outside the box"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/91066300@N00/sets/72157600947040609/

The 2006 DT game

http://www.flickr.com/photos/91066300@N00/sets/72157600935039622/

We won both games.

Helmets make you look uncool but your right I rather look dorky then dead.

http://tinyurl.com/2du2mk

Or people who are otherwise interested in such matters, but I think we are the only two.

It is tangentially baseball related.

I arrived late to this years DT gathering but ScareDuck/Rob McMullin got me on the group picture he took late in the game. It's cool though cause DT'rs are 2 & 0 (MOJO!) when we're all gathered at the same time.

Arms race!

Then the tide went out. Way way out.

CLACK!

So true.

And there has got to be a better way to phrase that question.

How many rules did I just break.

Seriously, it was due to Jon's relationship with Josh R. (head Dodger PR guy), who does lurk here, and their respect for the site.

May gets devastating news, but decides not to cancel her therapy appointments. Jamie and Hugo reconnect, for better or for worse. Palek's blunt revelation at May's office shocks Carolyn. Having confronted the crossroads and challenges of their marriage for some time, Dave and Katie finally make a breakthrough.

1. I'm guessing May's news has to do with John. Maybe he died. Maybe he committed suicide because she rejected him. BTW: How long ago did their indiscretions supposedly take place?

2. From what I hear, the finale is great.

As I missed the meeting, it was my understanding that everyone glad handed McCourt and somehow swallowed their tongues when compared to how they write with their quills. Being good guests that is how it should have been but I've often wondered how it would have gone if they had verbalized what they wanted to ask.

The Dodgers were indeed in 1st place on that day, and ended the day with the best record in the NL at 55-43, a half game ahead of both the Brewers and Mets.

The lineup featured Loney, Kemp, Martin, Ethier, and Betemit. And we rejoiced.

And bhsportsguy's cookies were great too.

Otherwise, you're right.

However, I no longer "hate" the show. I hate myself for watching it. The show's improved, but I haven't.

80 For Jon's take of the day go to,

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/740691.html

To McCourt's credit, he did seem sincere in person even though it was probably just stock material.

Why?

Is he bringing Ismael Valdez and Antonio Osuna with him to Spring Training?

I think the group showed due deference to McCourt mostly because they wanted to make Josh look good. Josh really extended himself and was the mensch of all mensches.

I do wish we had gotten more pointed questions across.

It also seemed like Josh got most of the Juan Pierre talk.

Speaking of that, on the BB thread this was my response:
What can I say. It was the 1st "adult" TV show I ever saw and at the age of 7 I was bewitched by Elizabeth Montgomery while eating ice cream after having my tonsils removed.

"Segui, who acknowledges he has used a synthetic form of HGH under a doctor's supervision since being diagnosed with a growth hormone deficiency in 2003 [SHOULD BE 2001], says he thought nothing of the exchange until a few months later, when Grimsley was busted and his affidavit sped through baseball circles faster than a Josh Beckett heater."

I found myself rooting for the Anaheim forward Parros, or as we were calling him, "The 'Stache". That made even a blowout entertaining.

Also, I had no idea that essentially cheerleaders come out every 5 game minutes or so (every timeout) to clean the ice. That was a nice surprise! :)

The only downside was not getting home until 11:30. NHL is definitely better in person though.

Why is it "OK" to use steroids/HGH/etc. to address physical problems when you're under doctor's order, but not otherwise? Don't you get an "unfair advantage" under either scenario? Why is it less unfair if a doctor prescribed the drugs?

Whether it's due to Colletti, assistant general manager/scouting Logan White or underrated vice president/assistant general manager Kim Ng, the Dodgers have a pennant contender. That doesn't mean that the team hasn't made mistakes in the personnel department. Every team makes mistakes, of course, and no one expects perfection. But what kind of system do the Dodgers have in place to evaluate their personnel decisions and determine which transactions went south because of bad luck and which because of faulty - but improvable - reasoning?

This is a question I wanted to ask at the session, but unfortunately, I held off. Even if I had asked it, however, I don't know how meaningful an answer I would have gotten, because McCourt is not the type to do a lot of public introspection when things are going well.

Wins and losses are what matter in the end for a baseball team, but wins and losses aren't the best indicator of whether a general manager is doing the best job possible. When McCourt tells me that he has complete faith in Colletti, does that imply he believes Colletti will know how to improve his performance from the B or whatever grade he merits? Or does it imply that he thinks Colletti deserves an A? This is all immediately pertinent with Tuesday's trading deadline testing Colletti's judgment anew.

DT Questioner (I forgot whom): Who is your best hi-

McCourt: NED!!!

In Sun Belt cities, most ice surfaces are pretty bad toward the end of the game. That's one reason why the overtime is so short. And the penalty shot tiebreakers are best of three.

No chance to root for "gritty underdog" Bayern Munich.

I don't believe Munich has a pro basketball team, although there is a pro league in Germany.

http://tinyurl.com/34ctlk

Cabrera, on the other hand...I could see that.

I like the writing, directing, and acting.

I suppose wide-ranging evaluations are to be expected when something is so different from the norm.

1) Sign Torii Hunter for CF
2) Move Pierre to LF
3) Trade for Cabrera (LaRoche, Kershaw & Ethier/Kemp)
4) The leftover of Kemp/Ethier starts in RF
5) Sign Kuroda and/or Wolf as SP surplus

And if that were true, then McCourt would have felt the need to compete with the Angels in the past. And I think we can all agree that if McCourt has tried to compete with Moreno, he's gotten it handed to him for the past four years. He's not good at it.

Are we watching the same show?

Him who? Nobody. That's who.

For Cabrera, I'd give up a lot, but not Kemp, LaRoche, and Minotaur.

The beautiful way in which statistics reflect quality and predict achievement is a feature of the 162-game season. It's only a factor in the post-season.

With the unbalanced schedule and other things, we'll never really know who the champ of the regular season is. But winning your division should be a more celebrated achievement than it is, and getting first seed by virtue of the best league record is another strong sign of a team's success. This season, Boston was clearly the best team in the AL, and in the NL there was more of a muddle involving five teams really, one of which didn't make the playoffs. The post-season happened to follow form this season, but in other years it has not. Like, all the years the Wild Card team won the Series. Or like 2006.

That's why the idea that Joe Torre became a failure after 2000 is silly, and that's why the dominant NL team in the 90s and early 00's was clearly Atlanta. Yes, the Marlins won more WS than the Braves during that span, but does anyone put them on the Braves' level? The Marlins couldn't best them in a 162 game season, not even once.

There's no putting the genie back in the bottle, but the fact is, the WS hasn't been as meaningful since the divisions were created. The last real WS was 1968 (and it was a classic!) The problem with the post season was demonstrated in the very first year, when my beloved 1969 Mets were declared World Champs. Right.

If I were a GM, the fans would hate me because I would build a team to win the regular season, and just take my chances in the post-season. That's the only ethical way to play it.

1. Trade Pierre (and eat 1/2 of salary), La Roche, and a top pitching prospect for Cabrera

2. Sign Cabrera longterm (does $20mil/year sound right?)

3. Sign Andruw for center (around $15mil?)

Then you get Cabrera and Jones for about the same price as A-Rod. I think a lineup of

Furcal
Martin
Loney
Cabrera
Jones
Kent
Kemp
Ethier

has to be either the 2nd best (behind RedSox) or 3rd best (behind Mets) in the majors.

Isn't that lineup automatically better than Boston because the name Lugo is missing?

It appears that generally, the success rate regardless of the CF is 97% when a runner tries to take the extra base. However, runners only take that chance about 40% of the time.

Now am I guessing for Pierre, that number is statiscally 100% based on his number of assists but in a reality, how many extra runs did that cost the Dodgers? Did base runners take more opportunities than the average against the Dodgers and again how many more times was that.

The author will try to equate to wins and losses in tomorrow's edition.

Why do you say this?

If I'm understanding those numbers correctly, outfield defense is going to matter in the NL West. If we were going crazy last year with the Adventures of Juan Pierre in Centerfield™, what would it be like with Pierre and Caberra in the outfield?

101 - because you're using the drugs for their intended purpose. If the guys using it on a prescription aren't allowed to use it, they wouldn't be able to physically perform. It's like saying a guy has a cold and takes some Sudafed so he can play, is that "performance enhancing"? He'd obviously play better with a clear head, no?

http://tinyurl.com/yunlth

Hooray for all the Socks! I hope they pursue their direction, then two of the big "placeholders" will be out of Ned's hands.

I just spit soup all over my computer. That's gonna make me laugh for a while.

--
As Diane Weist's character said in Bullets Over Broadway, "Dooon't speak! Dooon't... speak" -- of trading the Minotaur.

Colletti Loses Mind; Signs Chan Ho Park

Good day for the funnybone.

(now to read all the comments and see if anyone else caught that...)

With Hunter and Lowell seemingly out of the way (see 158 ) the big remaining FA blunder appears to be Lohse.. or maybe Corey Patterson.

http://tinyurl.com/ypho6g

"Cabrera...too many prospects. ARod...Boras is a meanie. LaRoche...too inexperienced."

"Hold ON!!! PEDRO FELIZ!!! I'm a genius! I wonder if he'll take $30 million for two years."

In more ways than one.

Barry Bonds?

172. Those things are all taken into consideration. But there is some variation in park factors from year to year (though nothing staggering), based on sample sizes. Dodger Stadium has always supressed triples since I started following the stat. I believe it was part of the argument/praise made by some people as to the Derek Lowe signing a few years ago. His tendancy not to give up home runs and the parks tendancy not to give up triples bode well. History will be the judge.

vr, Xei

1) Don't overreact. Acquire players that are needed and fit into a coherent plan. Lugo, Pierre, and the resigning of Nomar to block Loney were mistakes, plain and simple.
2) Articulate a plan to the fans and follow it.
3) Learn to work with Boras. You don't have to sign his people, but he will be representing ARod, Texeria, Holliday, and others in the near future. Suck it up and put personal rancor over JD Drew aside.
4) If ARod and a reasonably priced Miggy (LaRoche, Ethier, and McDonald or something similar) are not able to be acquired, give LaRoche a legit shot at playing time and don't acquire someone like Joe Crede or Scott Rolen on the downslope of their careers.

The thing that I find most galling about Ned is his unpredictability. He could go get ARod and work a brilliant move for Dan Haren or Scott Kazmir. Or he could sign Pedro Feliz and Lohse.

Each option is equally plausible.

Like a pupusa but gritty and hard.....like a cornmeal hockey puck....in Venezuela they have some pretty disgusting fillings too...

I know it's all relative...but ewwwww.

So it's ten anonymous people we'll know about tomorrow.

I'm not saying I think he's a great GM, but I also don't hate him or have fatalistic thoughts about this offseason.

Another certain name: Sammy Sosa.

A likely name (although I am sad about it): Gagne. :(

"This sucks"
"We're gonna lose"
"Nothing ever works out for us"

I got a real kick out of that, so funny :)

Here is hoping anyway, at least where a potential front line starter is concerned.
At this point pitching is so much more important and rare than any offensive player.....Clubs that "club" their way into the play-offs without a big Ace are usually done quickly.

"Eighteen is enough, to fill our lives with love!"

I really feel the very long season makes them take those measures, I really do. From everything I've read guys that are in tip top shape take them cause there body just gives out during a long season (I've read & heard of many players who I wouldn't imagine taking "greenies" take them just to cope with the LONG SEASON) I say shorten the season & you'll eliminate the use by at least half, guaranteed.

Colletti brought in Saito. He got 3.5 for a player everybody knew he had to get rid of. He signed Furcal to a short, big money contract. He got Merlin for a beautiful couple of months. That's what he's accomplished. It's not half bad, because Saito and Merlin are/were so peculiarly amazing. But that's it. Everything else has been unimportant, mixed, bad, or Pierre.

Cabrera is, in my opinion, almost as special a player, but 10 years younger. And we can get him now. It's much easier dealing with Larry Beinfest than Scott Boras. It will cost us at least a pair of beloved prospects plus additional bodies, but we're getting back someone who we know almost without doubt will outplay any one of them over the course of his career.

So my argument for Cabrera over ARod comes down to one of those cliches.... bird in the hand... don't step over dollars to get a nickel... I'm not sure which one applies.

If we are outbid on Cabrera, then we can focus on ARod. Whoever gets Cabrera will drop out of the Arod sweepstakes, so that's a more propitious time to negotiate for him anyway.

I think we need to pretend that Arod does not enter the market until January 1 because for all practical purposes, that's going to be the case. He's not there. What do we do? There's an opportunity to get Cabrera. What's the price? And go from there.

If we pass on both, we still have LaRoche. Smile!

Hopefully Nomar bounces back but if not even better it gives a legitimate shot at La Roche.

Why would he be a better option than Abreu, Young, or anybody else? And he's old. And he would tempt others into playing him. Because he's some sort of sorcerer in that regard.

Mike Piazza is also a FA. I really hope he's not in there.

We can always go the A-Rod route your right DzzrtRatt.

Check, check, and check.

Feliz and his diabolical siren song could woo Joe Torre.

I don't buy the Mets being in this at all, BTW.

243 Marlon Anderson.

However, I have no problem supporting the Los Angeles Angels of Rancho Cucamonga on Thursday nights.

But I won't take both. And we already have Nomar. And there I go arguing in circles again.

Merlin "The Magician" Anderson, He was part of the 4+1 game.

I wonder if Colletti will pursue Jon Lieber now.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-oscar9nov09,1,3467627.story?

Real positives (intended or not)
Maddux trade
Furcal signing
Marlon Anderson
Not trading a single prospect that has had great success with another team.

Real Negatives
Nomar Resigning
Betemit Trade (I may be alone on that one)
Tomko signing
Schmidt (No guarantee he will ever pitch wearing Blue)
Not signing our 5th round pick this year to above slot dollars.

Mind-Boggling Neo-Sadist Moves
Juan Pierre

Thirsty Thursdays, here I come!

I guess cheaters sometimes win.

Jeff "Papa Wheelie" Kent vs. Matt "Bison" Kemp

Also, regarding Schmidt, Ned deserves credit regarding the length of the contract, but it was a gamble that many teams were reportedly not willing to take. Should it really be remembered as a good move? I think neutral at best.

My favorite Ned move so far is Maddux. Either was also up there.

Overall, I'd so far say Ned's really got a ton to prove with his future FA signings.

Plus, he's stronger. Jab, jab, left hook to the body, left hook upstairs, and that's all she wrote.

I had no idea that was at Dodger Stadium. Hey, let's look at the upside. Davey Moore dies in 1963...same year the Dodgers swept the Yankees in the WS.

If it takes Oscar or some other pugilist to croak to bring another crown to the boys in blue, I'll be a pallbearer!

---

Btw, Office fans and those interested in the WGA strike will want to check out this:
http://tinyurl.com/yw27hu
"The writing staff of The Office shot on the picket line this informative and funny YouTube piece explaining why they're part of the WGA strike."

I'll say this much. Based on what I knew, I wouldn't have paid Saito a dime to come to Spring Training in 2006. So I don't have problem tipping my hat to Ned on that one.

You can call those free throws if you like, but you still need to make some free throws to win. It really doesn't hurt the big-picture evaluation of Ned to say yeah, Saito was a good pickup.

And, repeating myself for the last time, asking for credit for not trading the crown jewels is like Elaine wanting special treatment for not killing the telephone company worker who came to her apartment, even though nobody would have known he was gone.

I wonder why dime is always used instead of penny? That always struck me as weird, given that the relative worth of the two coins.

Jose Guillen is one of them. That leaves 10.

"Believe me, we'll get inside their heads. It's important they learn how to win, to do the little things. Guys get caught up in stats. The sooner we get rid of the individual things, the sooner we'll get them to thinking of how to win as a team."

I still don't understand old men baseball lingo.

I'll randomly say... Tony Batista, Doug Brocail, Miguel Cairo, Shawn Chacon. Jeff DaVanon, DeAngelo Jimenez, Jorge Julio, Jason LaRue, Luis Vizcaino, Brad Wilkerson.

285 I wonder how constrictive Bowa will be...?
{duck}
Seriously, I think he'll be a good presence for the young 'uns.

I wish they would hurry up and release this report.

Practically, what it means is that you don't swing for the fences when you're leading off an inning, you look to put the ball in play, get on base, and score runs. You play loose, not trying to do too much. Which really, was the approach of the Yankees most of the last 12 years at the plate (at least in the few games I got to see).

My second guess, Larry doesn't spend a lot of time actually doing any thinking.

-Keying Vin Scully's car.
-Ordering 100 sardine pizzas delivered to the visiting team's locker room, with Lasorda's credit card.
-Selling Avon products in the locker room.
-Selling team equipment on eBay.
-Having his picture silk screened on every piece of fabric in the stadium
-Repurposing the Dodgers computer network for sending herbal ED treatment spam.

Other than that, I don't think so.

I do recall a couple of times when guys came up and were swinging for the fences (there were a couple times when I thought Russell was going to come out of his cleats on swings), when they should have just been trying to make contact.

What if it's Bowa being groomed to replace Torre?

Cannon agrees with you.

LuGo was an obvious clubhouse problem, but as a hitter he came through pretty frequently.

The big flops when it comes to self-sacrificing at-bats (Olneys and the rest) were Pierre and Nomar, to the best of my recollection. And the pitchers. Some of our pitchers swung lamely at ball four more than a few times.

The problems hitting seemed to be that once the slump started in late July or August, almost everybody was pressing and not getting it done.

Bowa is like 70 years old. He doesn't really need anymore grooming.

311 I was worried about Bowa, too, but honestly I've heard really good things about his coaching from a lot of Yankee fans. I'd be more worried about him as a manager than a coach. I don't think he's being groomed to take over. It'd be Mattingly if they're grooming anyone.

(Further proof that High School is brutal) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3100957

LOL

I just could never warm up to the good old country boy schtick of Little, for me it just didn't play well in LA...

I'm right with you there. I was hoping for a fight to the death between Betemit and LaRoche. But now Joe Torre can send Scott Proctor to the mound in the 7th inning every day.

D4P you are generally an excellent and inciteful commenter, and while because I'm not into football I really don't care that much about the Pats, my bandwagon team, you seem really obsessed with hating them.
It is seeming a bit irrational, but I guess I can understand, given my feelings for Boras. Everyone is entitled to one or two.

http://tinyurl.com/2klobr

I've heard he is actually a very good 3rd base coach.

and insightful as well....

I really wouldn't want him coaching any of the players.

It really cuts him to the bone.

How about Troy Percival as one of the fungible middle relievers? Next season's Rudy Seanez?

There is a nice little rivalry in the eastern part of Los Angeles (Garfield versus Roosevelt) that gets HUGE crowds, I'm thinking it's a little over 25k but I'm not sure.

>> Dodgers owner Frank McCourt was asked at the Joe Torre press conference Monday if he could conceive of a situation where he would be spending $35 million a year on a single player.

"I can't answer that question yes or no," he said. "If Ned (Colletti, GM) and Joe were to come to me and say, 'This is what we think is smart, this is what we think is strategic, this is what we think is wise in order to win now and continue to build on that foundation we now have in place,' I'm going to be all ears." <<

http://tinyurl.com/2bcoy7

Really? That's a big crowd even for a sectional championship.

The biggest crowd for any regular season high school game in Southern California is for the East L.A. Classic between Garfield and Roosevelt. I think they can squeeze about that many into ELAC.

Most high school football teams in Southern California don't draw more fans than just the parents and the marching band, unless it's a homecoming game.

There are a few pockets where schools draw well, but the fans and parents here in California haven't turned into Buddy Garrity yet.

"...in order to win now and continue to build on that foundation we now have in place... "

"Seating is offered on both sides of the bowl with a total of 20,355 permanent bench seats. There is room to comfortably accommodate 2,000 for standing room, although this total has been exceeded many times."

"It is perhaps best known, however, as the long-time site of the East Los Angeles Classic football match-up between Garfield and Roosevelt high schools, which have drawn crowds in excess of 25,000."

As you know, the Servite Friar football team will be playing against the Mater Dei Monarchs this Friday night at Angel Stadium. It has been a long time since we've beaten them, and the environment promises to be an electric one. Last year, there were about 25,000 people there and the game was as thrilling as it could possibly be. Unfortunately, the Friars were defeated. But it was not for lack of effort, heart or support.

OK, this kid is a freshmen, 15 years old, and he can kick a 60 yard field goal. His name is Jake Van Ginkel, and you'll remember this post one day when he's the best kicker in the NFL. I talked to his dad at a bar. Does that make me a hero? I like to think so.

The Wall Street Journal did an article on high school kickers, and a YouTube news segment on Jake, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0oLGoYvum4&NR=1

new latimes Miggy Article...

"[Forget] the veterans," Cabrera told the Palm Beach Post. "They haven't told me anything and they better not come tell me anything, either. I don't want to hear anything else. I want to play baseball, give what I have to give on the field of play and win. That's all I want."

No respect for PVL!!!