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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Upcoming Scully Book Causes Rift
2007-11-09 09:24
by Jon Weisman

Since Vin Scully has never authorized a biography, any book about him would have to be unauthorized. According to Tom Hoffarth of the Daily News, author Curt Smith is publishing one next year, and Scully is bummed.

Smith said he contacted Scully last February and asked him to co-author it as an autobiography. Scully again turned him down.

In September, Scully was informed that the book had been written anyway. Rob Menschel, one of the cameramen on the Dodgers' local TV broadcasts, discovered a press release announcing Smith's project.

"I was in shock, after specifically refusing the idea," said Scully. "I called him and (Smith) said the book was already done."

Smith, who says he has known Scully since the early 1980s, does not feel he overstepped his bounds in going ahead with a book on Scully's life, even without his approval.

"I respect his privacy and admire his modesty," said Smith from his home in Rochester, N.Y., where he's also a professor of English at the University of Rochester. "But what I've done is a book that I feel is honest and affectionate and extraordinarily admiring.

I'm sympathetic to both sides. I'm sympathetic to Scully's side because he's Scully, but he's also a public figure, and heaven knows he's worthy of a book. The book should be fair, but should it be suppressed?

"I feel strongly that any public figure such as Scully deserves a biography, but I don't wish to be presumptive," said Smith. "The first words I use in the book, to paraphrase, are that this is not `the' book on him, but it's `a' book on him. It's a public look at the public man.

"It's been something I've had in mind for at least the last 10 years. When people read it there'll be no mistake about my great admiration for him and an analysis of what makes him great. Let readers and critics judge it." ...

Scully, who turns 80 later this month, says he feels he's betrayed many writers who've approached him in the past about a book project.

"It's a very helpless feeling on my part," Scully said. "Now all my pals I turned down will think less of me.

"It's a terrible feeling when your life doesn't belong to you. Very, very sad."

I wish those weren't Vin's feelings on the matter, but he wouldn't be Vin if they weren't, would he?

Comments (165)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-09 09:34:33
1.   CarlosDeC
Well I for one, look forward to reading about it. I am sure it will be a great read.
2007-11-09 09:38:58
2.   screwballin
I would love to know how many hours Vin has been on the air in his lifetime. He's got to be in the top 1% of celebrities of any ilk.

Point being, we all feel like he's a friend after spending all that time with him over the years. It's natural for us all to want to know him better. What he sees as not having control of his life, I see as his enormous base of fans wanting to get better acquainted.

I just wish he could feel better about that.

2007-11-09 09:40:43
3.   ToyCannon
Since it is not an auto-biography I don't see why Vinnie would feel he's been betrayed or why his pals would think any less of him.
2007-11-09 09:41:43
4.   PalmdaleSteve1
Vin is truly a man of honor and from another era when this sort of stuff "just wasn't done". Sad really but the book will sell well.

Great Man, and Dodger fans are honored to have him call the games.

Well besides his very bad joke at the Torre coronation "Chicken Catcher Torre", "I'll take two"... Lasorda. The Borscht Belt even groaned at that one.

2007-11-09 09:44:00
5.   screwballin
I guess it's just terrifying to wonder about what would come out. He's such an untainted winner, and any book would feel obligated to find something to balance out the good.
2007-11-09 09:46:05
6.   screwballin
4 There was an era when celebrities weren't subject to unauthorized autobiographies?

Pre-written word, maybe.

2007-11-09 09:46:08
7.   Eric Stephen
Speaking of honoring Vin, it would be nice to have a Vin Scully Day at Dodger Stadium. I don't know if Vin would ever allow it, but McCourt should do it anyway.

On Jackie Robinson day this past season, I got chills during the ovation given to Scully. Vin seemed embarrassed more than anything ("Please, thank you" begging the crowd to hush as it wasn't his day), but he certainly deserves it.

2009 will be his 60th year announcing the Dodgers. That seems as good a time as any to honor the great Vin Scully.

2007-11-09 09:46:39
8.   screwballin
6 Make that unauthorized biographies. Duh.
2007-11-09 09:47:20
9.   Samhain
Vin doesn't want to write an autobiography. And Vin doesn't want a biography written about him.

While I understand Vin's feelings--along with John Wooden Vinnie is tied for my favorite sports-associated individual; I really am in favor of any in-depth biography that might be produced about Vin Scully, so long as it isn't a hatchet job.

While I did meet Vin once for about thirty seconds (I introduced myself as he was waiting for his car at valet at the Bonaventure Hotel and told him how much his broadcasting had meant to me--and he was very gracious and kind,) I know that an in-depth bio will be the closest I will ever get to hanging out with the man. I'd like to have the chance to read this bio.

2007-11-09 09:47:33
10.   Eric Stephen
And to bring up another idea from DT Day, the statue in front of Dodger Stadium should be of Vin Scully.
2007-11-09 09:47:54
11.   Louis in SF
Realize I was late to the game, but the issue in the last post in my mind almost has more to do with the way story lines in journalism seem to be hatched. It seems to me now that in the main stream media all stories about the Dodgers are put into the frame work of veterans versus youngsters.
As Jon points out Russell Martin was a youngster last year. I don't know if it would solve it, but it might help if someone say a former coach like Donnelly could come forward and offer a greater explanation on what happened in Dodger Land last year.
2007-11-09 09:51:36
12.   CajunDodger
It is kind of sad to me that he feels this way, but I understand why he does.

My thought on the matter is that a book will eventually be written about him, no matter what. At least this way, he can answer the critical items for himself. Nothing is worse than sullying the name of the dead with something salacious. I am glad that this is being done now rather than after he is gone.

2007-11-09 09:51:37
13.   PalmdaleSteve1

Nope, but publishing houses had much tighter and smaller communities where bad boys and girls did not pull this sort of stuff off too many times.

Just like in electronic media, lots more outlets and publishing houses all looking for material to sell and make a buck off of. How else do you explain the Kitty Kelley's of the world, or for that matter "If I did it"?

2007-11-09 09:57:12
14.   Sam DC
From Shaikin's piece, as noted in the last thread: "I don't think you negotiate a window with someone not on the verge of free agency," Colletti said.

Why wouldn't you, esp. with a player like Cabrera and if you are giving up talent that you'd control for a long time absent such a deal?

I guess both sides face complicated risk scenarios along the way, but in some ways, doesn't the player's leverage go up a bunch as FA approaches, since he has another attractive option if he declines to sign?

2007-11-09 09:57:44
15.   Jim Hitchcock
[12} I don't see Vinny responding to specific items at all. It wouldn't befit the man and his
2007-11-09 09:58:55
16.   Gen3Blue
A book about Vin is one I am sure to read.

By the way can someone remind me of the exact words of PVL. I often think there should be a glossary of DT acronyms and terms(PVL) and nicknames(ie. Slappy McPopup, Lucille II) compiled somewhere.

2007-11-09 10:01:32
17.   LogikReader
PVL: Proven Veteran Leadership
2007-11-09 10:03:20
18.   PalmdaleSteve1
Speaking of someone that has no class, A$Rod

Someone should start a pool on how bad A$Rod and Darth Borris come out in this episode of GREED, from the planet A$Rod.

My bet is he goes back the Yankees under the offer for arbitration, and for less than he wanted.

2007-11-09 10:03:35
19.   gvette
Curt Smith's "Voices of the Game" is a well balanced, and seemingly authoritative book on the history of baseball broadcasting. Smith was very favorable to Vin and to Ernie Harwell.

Unlike the "colorful" life of Harry Carey, its doubtful Smith would, or could do any damage to our Dodger icon.

2007-11-09 10:04:36
20.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
The Mulder biography was unauthorized, too.
2007-11-09 10:06:21
21.   Gen3Blue
17 Ahhh yes-thanks Reader.
2007-11-09 10:11:04
22.   Robert Daeley
20 I want to believe.
2007-11-09 10:12:41
23.   jasonungar07
This Piggy Miggy talk is something I can really get excited about. I think he is exactly what we need. A good young and proven hitter just entering his prime. What is he 6 months older than LaRoche? With 4 all star game apperances and a sweet career line in a pitchers park. If we can get him without giving up Kemp, Loney, Billingsley or Martin I would be ecstatic. Of course who knows how realistic that would be. Not very I gather.
2007-11-09 10:13:10
24.   Sam DC
20 The truth is out there.
2007-11-09 10:17:13
25.   bigcpa

It's also believed that Florida also will seek Angels infielder Maicer Izturis as part of a trade package.

How is Kendrick/Maicer even in the same universe as Kemp/LaRoche?

2007-11-09 10:18:21
26.   LogikReader
I had a nightmare last night. NedCo traded Russell Martin and a few others for some average player.

That's not a joke, I really dreamt that last night, like I was watching it on SportsCenter!

2007-11-09 10:19:39
27.   blue22
23 - I think Kemp has to be included. Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw is the most likely package.

Hands off Billz and Martin. I'm partial to Loney over Kemp (subjectively speaking). And Kershaw can go in the right deal (Santana or Cabrera, basically) - seeing what Greg Miller is doing these days has me believing in TINSTAAP more than ever.

2007-11-09 10:21:24
28.   capdodger
18 ARod will not accept arbitration. He will, however, get less than he wants from whichever team signs him.
2007-11-09 10:22:44
29.   PalmdaleSteve1

Channeling Arnold M. Johnson are we now?

Who was the benefactor of your largess?

2007-11-09 10:23:28
30.   LogikReader

I'm going to google all that before I respond...

2007-11-09 10:24:08
31.   silverwidow
We now have 32 players on the 40-man roster. Tsao was outrighted yesterday in case anyone missed it.
2007-11-09 10:27:24
32.   screwballin
13 ...publishing houses had much tighter and smaller communities where bad boys and girls did not pull this sort of stuff off too many times.

I don't think many publishing houses would consider you a bad boy for doing an unauthorized but flattering bio of a beloved celebrity.

2007-11-09 10:32:42
33.   Paul Scott
Vin had a number of career choices open to him. If he did not want one that brought him into the public domain, he probably should not have chosen broadcasting. Maybe (probably) when he started his career he did not foresee becoming a national public figure, but pretty much everyone who has had great success in his chosen field has been written about without their permission. I don't see where Vin has any legitimate complaint.
2007-11-09 10:36:16
34.   Paul Scott
ARod, et. al.

I will continue to state I have no idea why issues of "GREED" and other complete BS come into play with some people. You all act like ARod and Boras are actively harming the game. It's not like MLB and the MLB owners are all poor bastards that need our sympathy. ARod has a job and it's pretty clear that he is being paid well below market rate for his production.

I hope he is a Dodger and I hope he gets paid a ton of cash for being one. There are not that many long term, big money contracts that make sense, but ARod is certainly one of them.

2007-11-09 10:41:13
35.   blue22
34 - There are not that many long term, big money contracts that make sense, but ARod is certainly one of them.

Big money doesn't worry me, it's the long term aspect that does. A 10-year contract to a 32-year old sounds ludicrous to me. I'd much prefer to offer a 5 year/$175M contract ($35M per) than a 10 year/$300M one. I guess that's rather obvious, but it's not the annual amount that scares me, it's the fact that I'm paying him that well into his 40s.

2007-11-09 10:41:20
36.   regfairfield
Ned has to be planning a lot of moves if he's already out righted Tsao and Hammes. Unless he really wants Russell Mitchell on the 40 man, there's now four or five slots open for new players.
2007-11-09 10:43:04
37.   CarlosDeC
i agree. Kemp, Kershaw, and LaRoche seems like a STEAP price but in reality that is probally what it is going to take, and sadly that is what I am bracing myself for.

What i am hoping for is a Kemp OR Kershaw + LaRoche + Meloan OR Hu. That I think is WAY more fair, but I am doubtful Neddy could pull that one off. Lets be realistic if we are going to make a trade we are going to over pay. it is bound to happen.

2007-11-09 10:43:05
38.   Paul Scott
And while we are on the subject of Boras...

Ignoring things that should be anti-trust violations absent poor SC decisions, a #1 draft pick is worth a hell of a lot more, on average (e.g. including all the ones that never pan out) than the paltry amount of money assigned to their slot. They are, on average, worth about $20M. So maybe the persons you should be upset about when your favorite team fails to sign a high draft pick are the very very wealthy owners who want to squeeze that last penny out of an already very good bargain.

2007-11-09 10:43:11
39.   capdodger
34 Agreed.
2007-11-09 10:46:55
40.   Frip
I'd rather not know too much about Vin. I like not knowing. I try not to read interviews from my favorite people either, be they artists, musicians or writers. Knowing too much defines the lines and destroys the poetry of it all.
2007-11-09 10:48:41
41.   capdodger
38 I like what you're selling and would like to add my name to your mailing list.
2007-11-09 10:52:20
42.   Michael Green
First, I think Vin is legitimately modest. We all have egos, and he knows he's a legend, I'm sure, but he doesn't think of himself that way.

Second, Vin has worked hard to keep his personal life separate from his public life. He has dealt with some tragedies--the death of his first wife and his oldest son. That doesn't make him different from a lot of other people. But I remember the LA Times interviewing him for his 45th year--1994--just after his son died and being asked about it, and he said he goes into the booth to try to put that aside, and that's what he's doing, and that's all. Plaschke did a wonderful, long article that included some personal anecdotes, but even then, you could sense a distance. And I think that's his right. He doesn't have to like what Smith did, but I would expect the book to be affectionate, yet address some of those personal matters.

2007-11-09 10:55:00
43.   KG16
37 - the high price is why I'm leaning against making a deal during the off season. I think giving up the of the seven that have been floated for one guy is too much. And yeah, I know Caberra has a monster line and all that, but still, I think we lose too much with the trade (it creates a hole in the outfield if it includes Kemp or Ethier, it creates a future hole in the middle in field if it includes Hu or Abreu, and a future spot in the starting rotation).
2007-11-09 10:59:35
44.   dzzrtRatt
I'm on Vin's side on this. Smith's behavior is disgraceful.

1. Asks Vin if he'll work on an autobiography with him. Vin says no.

2. Engages a publisher, writes book, submits to publisher, it's accepted, and the marketing plan is underway.

3. Through a cameraman, i.e. not through his agent or through the Dodgers who employ him, Vin accidentally find out about the book.

Some friend!

I'm sure we'll find out too that Smith -- trading on his "Voices of the Game" reputation -- told some of Vin's old friends that Vin was okay with them submitting to interviews. If he'd done the right thing and told Vin he was doing a book, Vin might have scotched it by asking friends not to cooperate. Or maybe he wouldn't have! The problem is, Smith gave him no choice, did the whole thing behind his back. good a book could this be without Vin's voice in it? Would Smith have had to go thru the Dodgers to get access to archives of game calls and so on? I assume if that request had been made, Scully would've been notified. I pray that's the case or we're going to have one ticked-off announcer!

As a reader, a book by Vin Scully would have been fascinating. A book about Vin Scully, in which Scully's way of expressing himself is absent? I don't know if that's going to be all that interesting in the way I would want it to be interesting. It's his perspective on his career that would draw my attention. Viewed from the outside, has Vin led a really fascinating life?

"It was 1954, time for another season of Dodger baseball..."

"It was 1971, time for another season of Dodger baseball...."

"It was 2003, time for another season of Dodger baseball...."

I guess we'll see. But I feel bad for Vin. Finding out a friend has betrayed you behind your back taints everything.

2007-11-09 11:00:32
45.   jasonungar07

Traditionally, the Marlins seek pitching back in any trades they make. As painful as it is to part with Cabrera's bat, he is the team's most valuable asset to lure in top-flight, affordable, young pitching.

So while the Marlins would like to secure a catcher and center fielder, Cabrera is being used to bring in strong pitching.

2007-11-09 11:03:44
46.   underdog
Vin has always indeed been very modest and embarrassed by any sort of attention, so this reaction is perfectly in keeping with his personality. Still, as noted above, he's a public figure, deserves a good biography and can't really do much about it. Now, an "unauthorized autobiography," that he could probably sue to stop.


The high price the Marlins are rumored to be asking the Dodgers for Cabrera is definitely way too high, no matter how incredible he is. Compared to what they're purportedly asking other teams, it's another case of the Dodgers being punished for having a terrific farm system. If Ned Colletti is the great negotiator he was rumored to be when he was first hired by LA, this would be a time to prove it. Hold out, make the Marlins lower their asking price a bit. If we're getting Cabrera, then, fine, trade LaRoche, but Kemp and Kershaw (the #1 pitching prospect in baseball) too? Fuhgedaboutit.

2007-11-09 11:06:25
47.   underdog
Off subject, but I was wrong in a previous thread when I'd said that Chinatown and The Two Jakes were both released in 2-disc special edition DVDs this week. They did get reissused this week, but they are in single disc "collector's editions" (and pretty darned cheap, too!) Haven't watched them yet, but assume the picture quality is better than in previous edition. Chinatown deserves a Criterion disc, frankly, imho.
2007-11-09 11:08:12
48.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I'm not sure there will be a worse contract in 2011 than Jorge Posada's.
2007-11-09 11:10:51
49.   JoeyP
Baseball people, and some baseball fans in particular, would be much easier to stomach if they just focused on what happened on the field, how much a player produces, etc...than everything else.

Miguel Cabrera can say/do whatever he wants, as long as he produces.

As can Matt Kemp.

Hopefully the Dodgers realize this in the end, and the veteran posturing is just that--posturing.

It'd be a sad day in LA if Kemp was traded due to "poor character", or Miggy not traded for due to "poor character".

2007-11-09 11:12:44
50.   Frip
About Vin's "modesty". No one is modest. It's not in our nature to be. We don't have the capacity for it. All we can do is take on the appearance of modesty.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-09 11:13:17
51.   JoeyP
46--I dont know if the Marlins are price gouging---.

They dealt Beckett/Lowell for Hanley Ramirez/Anibal Sanchez. That was probably a fair deal for both sides.

Kemp, McDonald, LaRoche for Miguel Cabrera seems fair. And if anything, the Dodgers have to give up more than usual, bc the Marlins are under no pressure to trade Miggy anyways. He's not a free agent till after 2009.

2007-11-09 11:17:35
52.   KG16
49 - I guess it depends on what you mean by "poor character". I don't have any problem with guys doing crazy stuff off the field (heck, I was one of the biggest marks for Dennis Rodman back in the day), so long as it doesn't affect his performance on the field. Kemp hasn't shown any tendencies off the field that would affect his on field performance. Caberra's weight problem though, that's a horse of a different color.

Though I suppose that's more of a discipline issue.

2007-11-09 11:17:39
53.   dzzrtRatt
The Yankees' need at third base is much more profound than the Dodgers, so I think you'll find Bruce's Bronx Banter analysis of the available players for that position quite interesting.

Assuming Ned is not going to stick with LaRoche/Nomar, there are many potential alternatives out there, and his take on all of them is worth pondering.

His take on what Florida would be looking for in return for Cabrera is also interesting. The real problem the Dodgers will face in going after Cabrera is that Florida's primary focus will be pitching. We're all focusing on Kemp, but it sounds like the Marlins would not value Kemp as highly as they would Billingsley and Kershaw. Billingsley is a deal-breaker IMO, and Kershaw... Ned needs to make it very clear to the outside world that he is perfectly happy to stand pat at third base and see if the Marlins come down in price. If he was as shrewd as he thinks he is, he'd have Mattingly say in the next interview something like, "LaRoche blows me away. He's going to have a monster year. I barely have to do a thing with a swing that perfect." Then offer LaRoche and Meloan.

2007-11-09 11:18:56
54.   natepurcell
bc the Marlins are under no pressure to trade Miggy anyways.

They sort of are, considering they operate under a 40mil payroll.

2007-11-09 11:19:08
55.   bhsportsguy
51 They don't want to shell out the projected 27 million for the next 2 years he will get through arbitration, plus if they trade him next year, he is unlikely to consider an extension for his new team so this is the best time to get their best deal.
2007-11-09 11:19:51
56.   KG16
By the way, how do the Dodgers fill the newly created hole in the outfield if they trade Kemp? In house, what are the options? Young, Repko? And what if Caberra has to be moved to left field? Is it still a good deal at that point?
2007-11-09 11:20:29
57.   natepurcell
Man, if only Morris and Elbert had pitched last year.
2007-11-09 11:22:56
58.   Robert Daeley
50 I guess the same could be said for cynicism and disenchantment, the appearance of which you have taken on.
2007-11-09 11:24:13
59.   regfairfield
56 If Cabrera moves to left, doesn't that fill the hole?
2007-11-09 11:24:30
60.   Eric Stephen
56 Pure speculation, but I'm guessing either Torii Hunter or Andruw Jones will be patrolling CF in LA next season, with Pierre in LF and Ethier or Kemp in RF (depending on trades).

They have already talked to Pierre about moving to LF, so unless they plan to play Kemp or Ethier in CF, they will have to acquire a new CF.

2007-11-09 11:24:43
61.   blue22
56 - If you trade Kemp, Kershaw, and McDonald/Meloan then Cabrera can play the OF. You'd have a Cabrera/Pierre/Ethier OF with LaRoche/Nomar at 3rd.

You could also go big and sign Andruw, or grab a RH veteran bat to go with Delwyn in LF. That puts Cabrera at 3rd, making Nomar and perhaps LaRoche expendable, though I really dislike Cabrera at third for the long term.

2007-11-09 11:25:25
62.   natepurcell

who plays 3b? a 270/320/390 nomar?

2007-11-09 11:26:47
63.   regfairfield
62 LaRoche? Assuming the trade is something like Kemp/Kershaw/Hu.
2007-11-09 11:27:39
64.   bigcpa
All this points to a golden opportunity to have the Angels to get Cabrera and exit the AROD bidding. 8 yrs/220m with an option year should get er done. '08 payroll at $116m. Play Ethier in CF.
2007-11-09 11:27:52
65.   Disabled List
The trade for Cabrera should top out at LaRoche, Kemp OR Billingsley, and McDonald AND/OR Meloan. I would not include Kershaw unless the Marlins gave up on Kemp/Billz and accepted Ethier instead. I tend to think Billingsley should be untouchable in this trade.

Does anyone know offhand if Jane Leavy's biography of Sandy Koufax a few years ago was unauthorized, or if she had Sandy's cooperation?

2007-11-09 11:27:58
66.   Eric Stephen
62 A-Rod, of course! :) In year 1 of a back-loaded contract, during which he receives only $15m to keep the 2008 payroll reasonably low.
2007-11-09 11:29:10
67.   KG16
53 - maybe we should take a look at Edwin Encarnacion? His numbers (in a bang box, no less) aren't as impressive as Caberra (playing in the Grand Canyon that is Joe Robbie Stadium). He can play defense though, and if Pierre is going to be in left, defense on the left side of the infield will be more important (fewer balls going into the outfield means fewer chances for Pierre to do something bad defensively).
2007-11-09 11:29:45
68.   regfairfield
65 There is no possible way the Marlins would accept that.
2007-11-09 11:29:47
69.   Eric Stephen
65 Would you rank Kershaw ahead of Billingsley? If I had to trade one, I would trade Kershaw.

Maybe I didn't read your post correctly.

2007-11-09 11:30:33
70.   blue22
65 - I tend to think Billingsley should be untouchable in this trade.

I really agree. Proven young starting pitching is more valuable to me than a young slugger like Cabrera. Unless maybe Florida takes Pierre as their desired CFer.

2007-11-09 11:32:09
71.   bhsportsguy
Trainwreck, you can watch the UCLA game tonight on

Monday night, newlywed Steve Lavin returns to Pauley as an analyst in ESPN2's coverage of the CBE Classic game with UCLA playing Youngstown.

2007-11-09 11:32:33
72.   silverwidow
65 I wouldn't trade Billingsley for Cabrera straight-up. He's the most valuable player we have (next to Martin).
2007-11-09 11:32:49
73.   jasonungar07
Out of all Dodgers for me anyways, Bills and Martin are the most un-tradeable...
2007-11-09 11:33:19
74.   KG16
71 - with the recent run of small schools beating big programs, I would see Lavin returning to Pauley as an ominous omen.
2007-11-09 11:35:07
75.   jasonungar07
72 meet 73 lol
2007-11-09 11:36:16
76.   Jon Weisman
Tulo's WARP3 of 10.8 is the 15th-best rookie showing since 1876.

2007-11-09 11:37:27
77.   Jon Weisman
76 - Looks like most of the people ahead of him on the list had sophomore slumps.
2007-11-09 11:41:24
78.   bhsportsguy
65 Jane Leavy said in an interview, "[Koufax] refers to this as an 'unauthorized biography' by a neat lady, which I immediately told my husband is going on the tombstone, because nobody ever calls me a lady."
2007-11-09 11:42:15
79.   Jon Weisman
Still on BP patrol - interesting Sheehan column on the Yankees, A-Rod, Girardi, etc.

2007-11-09 11:42:41
80.   underdog
Speaking of college basketball, train and Jon probably don't need to be reminded that UCSB plays Stanford on Sunday, as part of a mini invitational this weekend. I wanted to go down to Stanford to see the game on Sunday but can't make it now. Anyone know if it's on TV up in the bay area?

Even without Brook Lopez, Stanford should win, but they shouldn't look past UCSB either. Should be a good game.

2007-11-09 11:44:59
81.   underdog
Oh man, I just looked it up, it is on TV! Stanford UCSB, Sunday afternoon at 2 on Fox Sports Net. Cool. My Tivo's gonna have a busy Sunday.
2007-11-09 11:45:25
82.   underdog
Er, 3, rather.
2007-11-09 11:46:00
83.   dzzrtRatt
64 That's certainly in our interests as well. I'm sure it makes a big difference to McCourt and Moreno, but it doesn't make too much of a difference to me if we get Cabrera or A-Rod. But if we don't get Cabrera, I hope he goes to one of the deep-pocketed teams that's on Boras' short list of candidates to take on A-Rod.

Boras: "Ned I've got an offer in my pocket for $325 million, so if you want to stay in, you've got to top that."

Colletti: "Really, from who? Not the Yankees. Not the Angels. Not the Mets. Not the Giants. You lying sack of crap, I'll pay $250 million and that's it."

Boras (sighs): Okay, fine.

2007-11-09 11:50:14
84.   Disabled List
69 , et al. I put Kemp and Billingsley on the same "tier", as we're talking about this trade: the blue-chip, ML-ready, cost-controlled player that the Marlins presumably won't swing the deal without. It's my preference to include Kemp over Billingsley, because as 70 pointed out, a top-notch starter is really a treasured commodity.

Including one of those guys, however, precludes putting Kershaw in the deal. My thinking goes, "You want one of our top studs? Fine, but no Minotaur for you." If the Marlins really want Kershaw, they have to pass on Kemp or Billingsley.

2007-11-09 11:53:15
85.   Jon Weisman
80 - I did need to be reminded, or minded. Thanks. Even more shocking, I believe the Stanford-Washington State colossal football game is on TV down here this weekend.
2007-11-09 11:53:55
86.   ToyCannon
Speaking of sophmore players, what Prince Fielder did was kind of awesome. He now holds the single season home record for a 23 year old.
2007-11-09 11:57:29
87.   kinbote
i agree with those who say a package of kemp/laroche/kershaw is the likely price for cabrera. i'd be surprised to see them accept anything less. i have to think billingsley in untouchable, but if he's not, a bills/laroche/? deal is the other possibility.

in related news, some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice.

2007-11-09 12:02:45
88.   KG16
I like seeing this in the Times' Dodger Report today:

"We never talked about walks," Mattingly said. "We talked about hitting good pitches."

2007-11-09 12:07:13
89.   Terry A
65 - Both. To paraphrase Leavy, Koufax didn't want the thing written, but if she was going to do it anyway, he wanted her to do it right. She was amazed at how polite and "regular" he was throughout the whole uncomfortable process.

And writing that, along with Jon's note about Vin, makes me realize how thoroughly I disagree with comment #49. I want more Koufaxes and Scullys associated with the Dodgers, not more spoiled brats and jerks. That does not presume that Cabrera is such a brat/jerk. If he is, though, I'd just as soon pass.

2007-11-09 12:09:16
90.   ToyCannon
Just a few snippets related to the Dodgers in the ESPN Jerry Krasnik chat.

Chappy (Upland, Ca): It is being reported here in Los Angeles that Dodgers' owner Frank McCourt stepped in and overruled his GM Ned Colletti as Colletti attempted to make trades prior to last season's trade deadline. Have you heard anything about this and if this is true why didn't Colletti quit?

Jerry Crasnick: Chappy,

If you stand in the lobby at the general managers' meetings, you hear a lot of stuff about how difficult Frank McCourt and his wife, Jamie, are to work for. But the same applies to Drayton McLane, Peter Angelos and a bunch of other owners. I suspect that Ned Colletti puts up with a lot of stuff because there are only 30 GMs jobs, and he appreciates the opportunity to run the Dodgers (regardless of the headaches he encounters).

Greg (LA): Maybe I'm crazy, but if I'm the Dodgers, I don't trade Kemp, Billingsley and Kershaw for Cabrera. I'd rather keep and build.

Jerry Crasnick: Greg,

That really does seem to be the problem with the Dodgers. Logan White loves his former draft picks, Frank McCourt's approach is day to day, and Ned Colletti is caught in the middle. They don't know if they're coming or going.

2007-11-09 12:21:40
91.   trainwreck
Thanks for the info, BH. I saw that CSTV was offering it for free. Too bad the TV channel is completely useless and does not ever seem to show basketball games.

The game will be on FSN.

2007-11-09 12:28:17
92.   dzzrtRatt
TV tip:

Turner Classic Movies

6:30 PM (eastern)
Whistling In Brooklyn (1943)

A radio sleuth infiltrates the Brooklyn Dodgers to solve a murder. Cast: Red Skelton, Ann Rutherford, "Rags" Ragland. Dir: S. Sylvan Simon. BW-87 mins, TV-G
What's a "radio sleuth?"

2007-11-09 12:32:43
93.   JoeyP
he is unlikely to consider an extension for his new team so this is the best time to get their best deal.

Why would he be unlikely to consider an exension with his new team? I'd think no matter if he's traded this offseason, or next offseason, or July 31,2009---it'll only matter what team he actually goes too.

Plus, with the Marlins core, I doubt they'd give up Cabrera now since they have a chance to win in 2008 if their pitching health recovers.--Josh Johnson being primary.

2007-11-09 12:35:59
94.   Jon Weisman
92 - "I'm not a sleuth, but I play one on the wireless."
2007-11-09 12:38:00
95.   Benaiah
Untouchable Dodgers (most to least)
Frank McCourt
2007-11-09 12:39:40
96.   Benaiah
I forgot Furcal, but I would put him between Loaiza and Proctor. It isn't that he is less valuable, just that it wouldn't be that big a deal to trade him.
2007-11-09 12:41:41
97.   ToyCannon
Your last 7 players were all acquired or extended by Ned.
How come Jamie doesn't make the list?
2007-11-09 12:42:48
98.   jasonungar07
Where is Chan Ho. I recall Tommy once saying he would trade his wife Jo of over 50 years before trading Chan Ho.
2007-11-09 12:44:10
99.   Jim Hitchcock
in related news, some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice.

In the book I'm reading today,`Fear Nothing' by Dean Koontz, some say the world will end due to bad monkeys...

2007-11-09 12:44:34
100.   El Lay Dave
95 So is the least untouchable the most touchable?

If you are putting Ned on the list near the bottom, how close to the top are you putting Logan White?

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-09 12:45:53
101.   MC Safety
I remember hearing rumblings over the course of the season about Jon Meloan saying something about starting. Could any of the guys hear reflect on that being a possibility? His quirky delivery seems intriguing.
2007-11-09 12:46:33
102.   Disabled List
96 Great list. Vin Scully should be ahead of Billingsley, Charlie Steiner should be in between Proctor and Loiaza, Rick Monday should be in between Pierre and Nomar.

And Logan White should be in there somewhere, too. Upper third of the list, I think.

2007-11-09 12:46:43
103.   LogikReader
re: Frank and Jamie are hard to work for

bah! Is George Steinbrenner suddenly "a dream to work for?" How about the folks who own the Marlins and basically have a payroll the size of a single player?

I'll let that one stand on its own. If it was the McCourts holding Ned back from trading the farm, they were doing us fans a favor.

2007-11-09 12:46:55
104.   trainwreck
He probably would.
2007-11-09 12:47:27
105.   El Lay Dave
97 Those were some pretty strappy shoes Missus McCourt was sporting at the Torre press soirée. I'll bet Greg Brock noticed.
2007-11-09 12:48:01
106.   Xeifrank
95. I'm fine with that list. I might move Broxton up two or three slots and put D.Young somewhere in the middle.
vr, Xei
2007-11-09 12:50:18
107.   MC Safety
101- haha hear/here!! whew long night...
2007-11-09 12:53:58
108.   Jon Weisman
95 - I do like that list.

I'll add one note - Broxton over Saito.

What have you been up to, Benaiah? Seems like you used to be around more.

2007-11-09 13:01:50
109.   trainwreck
Congratulations to Carlos Pena! He is a Silver Slugger.
2007-11-09 13:03:34
110.   ToyCannon
Dodger Stuff from the Keith Law Chat:

Matt (Providence, RI): Hey Keith - I have a really serious question for you. Joba Chamberlain - great pitcher, or greatest pitcher? No, seriously though, what is with Farmer Ned and Andy Laroche? I have read in two distinct places this week that the Dodgers have a hole to fill at 3B. Seriously? A hole? You think he's starting in Miami next year? Got to figure Kemp, Laroche +1 gets it done, right?

Keith Law: (2:32 PM ET ) LaRoche isn't really a Marlins type of guy. They love their ath-a-letes down there, and they love power arms. I've heard that they're asking for Kemp plus one of Billingsley/Kershaw, so LaRoche could be a third piece but not a major guy. I saw one of those articles about the Dodgers having a hole to fill at third base. Fifteen teams would kill to have a hole like that.

Mike (San Francisco): The L.A. times is reporting the Marlines want Kendrick, Adenhart & Wood for Cabrera. Is that a good idea for the Angels? It seems like that's a lot for a soon to be DH who will cost at least $20 million a year in 2 years.

Keith Law: (2:38 PM ET ) That's a bad idea for the Angels, not a terrible one. I think the next five years of Kendrick are worth more than the next two years of Cabrera, a lot more when you figure in the cost. You can trade average players/prospects for a star, but trading a young soon-to-be-star for another star, plus throwing two prospects in the deal? Anyway, I don't see that as likely.

Jay (Palo Alto, CA): Great chats, Keith!! With their past employment history, could we see Colletti & Sabean work out a trade of a SP (i.e Lowry) for young postional player(s) (i.e. LaRoche)? Your thoughts please....

Keith Law: (2:41 PM ET ) Interesting - hadn't thought of that, but we see that kind of incestuous dealing all the time. If LaRoche isn't included in a Cabrera deal, but Billingsley is, they could flip him for Lowry ... I'm just making this all up, but it seems reasonable.

Oz (LA): Keith, Is Kemp as good as his hype and if so why are the Dodgers dangling him?

Keith Law: (3:16 PM ET ) Yes, and because there's a weird pro-veteran/anti-youth thing going on there.

J Arlington Ma: Do you think any teams will learn from the Sox patience with Pedrioa? It seems that they gain quite an advantage by having everyone adhere to a core organizational philosophy. How hard is it for a team to give a guy six weeks to prove himself if they believe in him?. How much better off would the Mets be just to give Milidge a job and trust he will eventually perform?

Keith Law: (3:33 PM ET ) Teams won't learn - it's too much of a reactive industry, reactive to media pressure, reactive to fan pressure, reactive to internal pressures. The Red Sox are unusual in that they just don't care. They don't care what fans say. They certainly don't care what the radio guys say or the writers say. They have a plan and they stick to it. It's a sort of useful arrogance.

2007-11-09 13:07:04
111.   silverwidow

Martin (5-tool catcher)
Billingley (Ace 1A)
Kershaw (Ace 1B)
Loney (May be a Triple Crown winner in his prime)
Kemp (30/30 man in his prime)

2007-11-09 13:09:02
112.   ToyCannon
Broxton ranked 37th in WXRL , according to BP. It seems that we may be overrating our big setup man. Saito ranked 3rd.

All of the sudden Billingsley is a 1A ace? I like Chad but the promotion seems premature.

2007-11-09 13:09:26
113.   trainwreck
Wow, it looks like Rollins beat out Hanley Ramirez for Silver Slugger. That is a crock.
2007-11-09 13:11:31
114.   Jon Weisman
112 - I'm not saying Broxton's better than Saito today. But Broxton's not the guy I'd trade first.
2007-11-09 13:11:42
115.   trainwreck
Woo hoo!! Martin is a Silver Slugger!
2007-11-09 13:12:22
116.   Robert Daeley
Golden God adds some Silver!!!
2007-11-09 13:13:12
117.   JoeyP
95--Thats an interesting list:

Mine would be:

1. Penny
2. Martin
3. Billingsley
4. Kershaw
5. Kemp
6. LaRoche
7. Kent
8. Loney
9. Ethier

2007-11-09 13:13:24
118.   natepurcell
Loney (May be a Triple Crown winner in his prime)

That is a little too optimistic.

2007-11-09 13:15:16
119.   MC Safety
Way to go Russ!

Any thoughts on Jon Meloan starting for us? I remember that being brought up somewhere.

2007-11-09 13:16:44
120.   natepurcell

Penny at the top? Kent before Loney?

2007-11-09 13:17:06
121.   Benaiah
108 - I moved from Chicago to Boston and switched jobs. Everything is an hour later and I don't spend as much time on a computer as I used to. I still read most of the posts, but I have less to add.

Also, this offseason makes me want to care less, it is terrifying to have the Dodgers at a crossroads with McCourt and Colletti at the wheel. April can't come soon enough (in more ways than one, with the New England winter fast approaching).

2007-11-09 13:21:39
122.   JoeyP
119--Definitely. Penny's an ace, in his prime, and has a great contract. Dodgers would have a very tough time replacing his production. In fact, it'd be near impossible to replace him.

Kent's before Loney bc the Dodgers could much easier find a hitter, put him at 1st base, and have him put up Loney-esque numbers, than finding a 2nd basemen that could put up Kent's numbers.

I made my list thinking about "how hard would it be to replace what the Dodgers have" at each position.

2007-11-09 13:25:05
123.   trainwreck
But Kent is only with us a year, yet you have a guy like Kershaw really high up.
2007-11-09 13:25:14
124.   natepurcell
Out of any "ace" in the majors, Penny probably has the most unsustainable ERA numbers based on his peripherals.
2007-11-09 13:25:42
125.   Eric Stephen
111 Loney (May be a Triple Crown winner in his prime)

That might be overstating a bit, no? It would obviously be great if Loney developed into that, but I don't think his power will be that good.

I would list these as potential triple crown winners:


I wouldn't put Loney in that list.

2007-11-09 13:26:34
126.   natepurcell

I still think JoeyP doesn't really believe in Loney.

2007-11-09 13:28:36
127.   JoeyP
Kershaw's buying power (as a prospect) would be very hard to replace.

Kent, even if he's at the downside of his career, is still right now quite irreplaceable. If the Dodgers had a 2nd basemen in the minors ready, I'd move Kent further down. But I dont see any, and I dont consider Abreu that player either.

2007-11-09 13:29:22
128.   trainwreck
That definitely has been well established. I thought last year might have changed it a bit, though.
2007-11-09 13:30:34
129.   silverwidow
125 I think his ceiling is far greater than any of us think (except maybe Canuck). That swing is taylor-made for home runs once he matures as a big leaguer.
2007-11-09 13:31:55
130.   JoeyP
And I only put Lowe so low because I think he's going to fall off rather largely next year.

I dont think replacing him with what I expect him to do (be medicore), would be that difficult.

2007-11-09 13:33:29
131.   Penarol1916
103. I would actually think that the owner of the Marlins is very easy to work for. Keep payroll low, once someone's pay get's a little too high for us, go find the best deal, occassionally keep someone around longer, just to have a face. It's people who are constantly changing their minds about what they want and are very insecure that are hard to work for. The Marlins' owners seem to be very consistent in what they want.
2007-11-09 13:33:35
132.   trainwreck
I don't expect anyone to ever win the Triple Crown, but I definitely agree that Loney may be better than any us previously thought.
2007-11-09 13:33:47
133.   trainwreck
*any of us
2007-11-09 13:34:49
134.   Eric Stephen
The members of the "Am I buggin' you? I don't mean to bug ya" club for 2007 (Silver & Gold) are:

Russell Martin
Hey Look, Its Placido Polanco
Jimmy Rollins
David Wright
Carlos Beltran

2007-11-09 13:37:21
135.   ToyCannon
I'd like to see Justin and BJ Upton both win it the same year for different leagues.
2007-11-09 13:37:58
136.   Eric Stephen
129 I can accept that. The triple crown thing threw me a little bit.
2007-11-09 13:40:48
137.   trainwreck
Keith Law says the Rays would not trade Crawford for Haren or Lincecum. That is pure insanity.
2007-11-09 13:48:00
138.   ToyCannon
Evidently Keith Law understands how good Carl Crawford is.
2007-11-09 13:49:58
139.   KG16
Anyone see the story on about the Cardinals getting sued for a message that was displayed on the stadium scoreboard during a game? Apparently, it claimed that a 17 year-old girl had an STD, on a day that she was at the stadium on a school trip.

Legally speaking, it looks like an interesting case.

2007-11-09 13:50:47
140.   silverwidow
137 Is Crawford even an A's type of player?
2007-11-09 14:01:04
141.   Terry A
So she just had the STD for that one day? Sounds like they need to do a better job cleaning the stadium seats.
2007-11-09 14:01:47
142.   63Dodger
Any list that doesn't put Martin as most untouchable needs reworking. He's not only a five-tool player, as silverwidow notes, but he has a more positive effect on the performance of teammates than any other Dodger. Send him elsewhere, and the whole team becomes less effective.
2007-11-09 14:02:59
143.   KG16
141 - heh, I suppose I could have worded that better.
2007-11-09 14:04:11
144.   Disabled List
Kemp is being put in such an untenable position that he almost HAS to be traded at this point. If the Dodgers don't swing these rumored deals, then all the pressure will fall on him next year. He'll be the instant scapegoat as soon as he hits his first slump as the bum we wouldn't give up for Cabrera or Santana.

And it's not like Plaschke or the other idiots need much of a reason to scapegoat him.

2007-11-09 14:04:55
145.   trainwreck
I understand not trading him for Haren, but Lincecum is a strike out machine and is very cheap. I get that Crawford has a high WARP and EQA, but Lincecum is a potential number 1 starter.

Are Lincecum's walk rates that much of a problem?

2007-11-09 14:05:25
146.   Michael D
On the subject of owner meddling, I think McCourt as a business man has seen the millions wasted on Schmidt and Nomar and Mueller etc contrasted to the kids making the industry minimum wage and realizes he needs more of the latter than the former on his payroll. I don't care how rich you are, writing a check for 8 figures to Jason Schmidt this year would have to seriously annoy you. So I really do believe McCourt has a grasp on the economics of all of this and how he can get more for his money.

I just wonder what McCourt truly thinks of Juan Pierre.

2007-11-09 14:06:20
147.   Bluebleeder87

That is an elite company (aside from Polanco). I'm really glad Russell Martin's hard work is paying off & I really hope he continues to WANT TO GET BETTER (I'm sure he will, he's just an elite/special player) I really hope Kemp is working hard in the Arizona Athletic complex cause he's another one who can break out BIG for us in '08.

2007-11-09 14:14:18
148.   dzzrtRatt
144 and others,

The Dodgers "dangling" Kemp is a few miles from trying to dump him. And while the comments about him, specifically, were unnerving, most of the comments about Kemp have been to the effect that he is a great player and "isn't finished yet." That can be taken as a compliment, too. "He's going to be better."

I think this idea that the Dodgers are scheming to rid themselves of this menace, Matt Kemp, are a mass hallucination. He is being discussed in trades because he's a 50-pound gold ingot on the trade marketplace who plays a position where the Dodgers think they have a few options. He's untouchable unless it's Cabrera or Santana coming back, I have to figure.

2007-11-09 14:14:49
149.   CajunDodger
Not sure that I would rank mine from first to last, but I would rank mine in tiers:


Your deal better include someone named Cabrera or Holliday

Valuable building blocks and hard-to-replace guys

Really? Sure you can have...

For the love of God, take $30 million and you can have him...

2007-11-09 14:16:40
150.   dzzrtRatt
148 a mass hallucination.

Sorry for that and many other awful typos today. I'm just all thumbs. You should've seen me chasing a cherry tomato around the kitchen.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-09 14:17:32
151.   Andrew Shimmin
Now, even without having any fancy connections, you can get your kid a spot as a Dodger bat boy/girl for a day. The bid's at $450, right now. My favorite part is the disclaimer. There won't be any autographs, and you definitely won't be allowed to touch any player's equipment. But maybe some of them will talk to you. No promises.

2007-11-09 14:19:29
152.   ToyCannon
I think Law subscribes to the theory that Lincecrum will follow the path of Jesse Foppert.
2007-11-09 14:21:56
153.   blue22
152 - As I've been able to gather from his chats, Law feels Lincecum's optimal usage is as a 3-5 inning long man, pitching 100-150 innings per year.
2007-11-09 14:24:28
154.   blue22
149 - I agree for the most part, except Saito is a bit too high (he's old; can't seem him being with LA as a high quality reliever beyond next year), and Loney's inclusion in that top group has more to do with my heart than my head.
2007-11-09 14:30:47
155.   Terry A
143 - Nah, you did fine. I would've gone for the cheap joke regardless.
2007-11-09 14:32:00
156.   ToyCannon
I like the tiers but other then Martin I don't see a dealbreaker on the team.
I guess I just don't have the guts to see if Kershaw can make an impact before he's floored by an injury. I've gotten to the point where I expect them all to suffer an injury. The reason the Marlins want pitching is because Josh Johnson and Anibal Sanchez went down this year.
The Yankee's are all thrilled about their big three in Hughes/Joba/Kennedy but the Met's had the same kind of threesome a few years ago and the only thing left of those guys is a closer name Izzy for the Cardinals. Wilson and Pulpy are just twisted memories for Met fans.
2007-11-09 14:37:31
157.   natepurcell

what about Oakland's big three? And Atlanta's famed staff from the 90s.

There are situations where everything turns out great as well as the horrible ones you mentioned.

2007-11-09 14:38:29
158.   natepurcell
In regards to the Yankees, they should sell high on Kennedy. He isn't on par with Joba/Hughes like they are making him out to be.
2007-11-09 14:39:51
159.   Jon Weisman
2007-11-09 14:40:40
160.   blue22
158 - Maybe that's exactly what they're doing by putting him in the untouchable group. Then when the LA's balk at the Marlins asking price, they swoop in with Kennedy, Wang, and Tabata for Cabrera and Dontrelle.
2007-11-09 14:41:34
161.   blue22
159 - d'oh! They say you never forget the first time you're "LAT'd".
2007-11-09 14:43:14
162.   CajunDodger
My thinking on Loney is the following: You just don't find first basemen that can hit and play defense very often. I truly think he is Derrek Lee, just younger.

As far as Billingsley: I see him being the type of player that can pitch a lot of innings and get 20 wins if he has a decent defense behind him. His progression reminds me a lot of Dan Haren.

Truth be known, though, Martin is probably the only guy on the team who is absolutely not on the table at any price.

2007-11-09 16:00:06
163.   joekings
Is there a glossary for the site? I read it pretty frequently but have not idea what LAT'ed or NPUT means????????
2007-11-09 18:00:45
164.   popup
I am surprised a biography of Vin has not already been written. My preference would be to have Jon write a Vin Scully biography or King Kaufman. What is more interesting than a book though is just listening to a recording of Vin broadcasing a Dodger game from say the late 50's to the late 80's on the radio. No book can possibly capture Vin's ability to find the right words at the right time to convey the story that is a baseball game.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-02-27 22:17:06
165.   Joe Pierre
The first time I heard the name Vin Scully I was 12 years old and I'll be 70 next month. I was 19 when they left Brooklyn. It was always a thrill to hear his voice over the next 50 years, which wasn't that often but whenever I did it was great. I use to catch him on radio during Dodger World Series play, now It's great to get him all summer long. I remember reading that he didn't know his father, I wonder if that might have something to do with it.

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