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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Give Dodgertown a Proper Farewell
2007-11-10 07:55
by Jon Weisman

Let's weigh the importance of the Dodgers playing exhibition games in China next season against the importance of them playing a full schedule of exhibition games in their 60th and final season in Vero Beach, giving longtime and first-time visitors the biggest chance possible to see them there. No brainer, right? China can wait.

Bill Shaikin has more about the Dodgers' simmering controversy with their Vero Beach partners at the Times.

* * *

Bernie Williams? Nice guy, but help me Rhonda, only as a bench player, please - and probably not even worth the dough for that.

In this article appearing at, Williams seems to agree.

"I don't think I have any plans to do something like that," Williams said.

* * *

Dodger Thoughts commenter CanuckDodger offered this take on the team's preparations for the Rule 5 draft (to help explain why Chin-hui Tsao was ejected from the 40-man roster):

We need all of the roster spots that have been cleared for a good reason: we need to protect six minor leaguers from the Rule 5 draft. People have already mentioned (James) McDonald, (Justin) Orenduff and (Xavier) Paul as no-brainers. Somebody mentioned Cory Wade as a possible, but I think he is definitely in. The other two guys are Ramon Troncoso and Wesley Wright. If Wade, Troncoso and Wright are not protected, I guarantee they will be lost in the Rule 5 draft, and they are the kinds of arms that a non-competitive club would have no problem hiding on the 25-man roster, doing bullpen mop-up work if nothing else.

* * *

Don't forget to check out Ross Porter's Real Sports Heroes, either online or at 12:24 p.m. weekdays at KLAC AM 570.

Comments (491)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-10 08:11:21
1.   Gagne55
I don't really see a role for Bernie. Young is out of options, so he has a roster spot fo sho'. At most, he'd be a fifth outfielder.
2007-11-10 08:21:07
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - Oh, I presume Bernie would primarily be a pinch-hitter all the way, and maybe play even less in the field than Olmedo Saenz.
2007-11-10 08:23:56
3.   blue22
I think Bernie's name coming up was inevitable. Joe is really loyal to him, but you wonder if it's just a courtesy mention. He can't play CF anymore, which is where his value would lie.

And just in case anyone is wondering about other Joe Faves...Scott Brosius is currently the head coach at Linfield College. Luis Sojo is a manager in the Yankees system. Miguel Cairo is still active, however, playing last year for StL.

2007-11-10 08:25:50
4.   D4P
Two words: Aaron Boone
2007-11-10 08:26:40
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - Another article, from AP, made Williams seem like he wasn't interested.
2007-11-10 08:30:08
6.   blue22
5 - On Friday, Bernie Williams dismissed floating rumors that he would consider coming out of retirement to play for Torre in Los Angeles.

"I've been listening to all the things that have been said, and all the news and everything," Williams said. "I've been kind of an outsider looking into the whole situation. It's kind of bizarre to look at it from outside. But no, I don't think I have any plans to do anything like that at this point."

2007-11-10 08:32:08
7.   Bluebleeder87
The ugly side of business rears its ugly head.
2007-11-10 08:35:45
8.   Bluebleeder87
I'd definitely pick D. Young over Bernie Williams another intriguing thing is that Repko will be back for '08 so that is another interesting side to look for in SP '08.
2007-11-10 08:38:31
9.   blue22

Joe: "You know who would really help this team: Bernie Williams."

Everyone else in the entire world, including Bernie himself: "Wait, huh?"

2007-11-10 08:43:22
10.   LAT
In addition to the effect it will have on the final season in Vero, I don't want the Dodgers to play in China for fatigue reasons. The MLB season is long and grueling. Flying half way around the world in March may take a toll in Aug. There was a lot of talk in Clipper-ville about the effect the pre-season games in Europe had on their disappointing 2006 season.
2007-11-10 08:43:56
11.   blue22
8 - It would be nice to have someone that could play CF. Torre played Matsui, among others in CF recently. Maybe he's more open to giving Kemp or Ethier more time there.

I think Repko might be getting the Jayson Werth treatment, in that they might just non-tender him. I honestly don't know if that's a decision they need to make on him just yet, given his service time.

2007-11-10 08:50:33
12.   gpellamjr
11 It would have been nice if they could have non-tendered him last year and held on to Jayson Werth.
2007-11-10 09:29:36
13.   sweepstakes
12 would much prefer Repko or Werth to JP.
2007-11-10 09:47:51
14.   Andrew Shimmin
Looks like Wade spells Corey with an E. I still don't see Troncoso as preferable to Hammes. Thhough Troncoso is a pretty good name.
2007-11-10 09:52:43
15.   Bluebleeder87
R.I.P. Norman Mailer [ ]
2007-11-10 09:52:47
16.   underdog
Speaking of Delwyn Young, it was fun to read in the Griddle about another Dodger prospect leading the US team to victory in the World Cup. I wonder if the Dodgers' PTB are paying attention.

(From Herald Tribune) "Dodgers' Minor Leaguer Delwyn Young hit a three-run homer in the first inning to lead the U.S. to a 5-1 victory over Japan on Saturday in a Group A clash in the 37th Baseball World Cup in Taiwan."

2007-11-10 09:53:02
17.   GoBears
Flying half way around the world in March may take a toll in Aug.
recover quic
Really? I mean, sure, it's a long trip, and they'll be jet-lagged for a couple days, but these are kids, not old farts like us (well, 'cept for Kent). They'll recover quickly.

And they're not rowing a Viking ship over there - they'll be traveling in style. As long they get a couple days off at some point, they'll be fine. I can't imagine any lingering effects.

2007-11-10 09:54:24
18.   GoBears
Woah, weird editing snafu in 17. I need more coffee.
2007-11-10 10:02:24
19.   Bluebleeder87

I don't know Go Bears I kind of agree with LAT big time.

2007-11-10 10:06:13
20.   GoBears
Well, if what LAT meant was that it might cost them a game or two early due to fatigue, which would then come back to haunt them at the end of the year, I'll buy that as a possibility. I just meant that you can't store up rest or lack of rest for that long. The body self-regulates much more quickly than that.
2007-11-10 10:16:39
21.   MC Safety
Oh great. Please reassure me that Delwyn is not going out like Victorino and Ross.

Also I gave this a shot twice yesterday to no avail. not sure if I am being given the cold shoulder or what but can anyone shed any light on Jon Meloan possibly starting for us? An answer from say Nate Purcell or any of the other prospect guys would be great.

2007-11-10 10:23:57
22.   Andrew Shimmin
It's my understanding that Meloan's delivery (sometimes called "maximum effort") is not well suited to starting. Given the Dodgers already have too many starters, I'd be surprised if he were switched. Broxton didn't get switched, even though that seemed like more practicable than Meloan.
2007-11-10 10:30:39
23.   MC Safety
Thanks Andrew but too many starters? This is based on thinking Schmidt and Loaiza are toast, which is not unfair at all. After Kuo who is an injury risk and my boy McDonald possibly who is close to being ML ready?
2007-11-10 10:31:25
24.   Jon Weisman
Delwyn's not in danger of being cut, I don't think.
2007-11-10 10:37:52
25.   Benaiah
Interesting Free Agents in 2009
*Denotes team option in 2009
Mark Texeira
Chipper Jones
Carl Crawford
Adam Dunn
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez*
Rich Harden*
Jake Peavy
C.C. Sabathia
Johan Santana
Ben Sheets

Dodgers coming off the payroll in 2009
Furcal, Nomar, Lowe, Penny*, Kent

2007-11-10 10:40:36
26.   Andrew Shimmin
Zach Hammes! Or Houlton and Stults. Plus Lohse, when Colletti signs him. I don't think Loaiza is toast; I don't think he's very good, but he's probably not finished. And I expect Schmidt to come back to something like a serviceable starter. Plus Hendrickson, whom I don't expect to be going anywhere. And Wolf who could well be back.
2007-11-10 10:40:56
27.   Benaiah
25 - Actually, the Padres have an option on Peavy too.
2007-11-10 10:42:00
28.   Andrew Shimmin
Orenduff, too.
2007-11-10 10:45:35
29.   Ken Arneson
As far as the "China can wait" comment goes, I think the whole point of going to China in 2008 is to take advantage of the opportunity for pre-Olympic hype. If you're going to do China at all, 2008 is the year to go.

That said, I don't know any reason the Dodgers need to go instead of some other team.

2007-11-10 10:46:16
30.   Benaiah
25 - Actually, the Padres have an option on Peavy too.
2007-11-10 10:49:03
31.   Benaiah
25 - Actually, the Padres have an option on Peavy too.
2007-11-10 10:52:15
32.   D4P
Does anyone know where I can find out whether the Padres have an option on Peavy...?
2007-11-10 10:52:58
33.   Benaiah
Oops sorry about that. Sometimes when you refresh it reposts. Harden's option for 7 million and Peavy's for 8 will almost certainly be picked up (and if they aren't then it would mean they aren't worth signing anyway). Still, I think the Dodgers could have a rotation of Billingsley, Penny, Kershaw/McDonald, Schmidt and Santana/Sabathia/Sheets in 2009. The best way to win is to not make big moves in 2008.
2007-11-10 10:55:49
34.   Bob Timmermann
Why go to China in 2008? The future, Mr. Arneson. The future.
2007-11-10 10:56:21
35.   Andrew Shimmin
29- It probably seemed like a better idea when Kuo, and Tsao were on the roster. But Hu's still in the mix. Are the Yankees going?
2007-11-10 11:05:16
36.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees are already in China in essence. They have agreements to develop players in China in place. They've signed two players from China.
2007-11-10 11:05:24
37.   silverwidow

Peavy's 2009 option is for $8M (with an escalator clause that can bring it up to $11M.

2007-11-10 11:07:03
38.   Bob Timmermann
And I think Andrew knows that Kuo and Tsao are not from China.

Eventually we will find out that Andrew's real name is Owen Lattimore.

2007-11-10 11:09:55
39.   D4P
Saito's from China, isn't he?
2007-11-10 11:16:16
40.   Marty
China thinks Tsao and Kuo are from China.
2007-11-10 11:17:21
41.   Marty
Saito is Japanese.
2007-11-10 11:17:28
42.   Andrew Shimmin
38- They probably don't think they are (I've never heard them address it, specifically). But I don't think there's a shortage of people in Beijing who think Tsao and Kuo are from China. And those people are the target audience, presumably.
2007-11-10 11:18:19
43.   Bluebleeder87

John Huston spooks me to this day!

2007-11-10 11:18:56
44.   natepurcell
China is the new frontier for MLB. They just opened 5 youth academies this past quarter there. Dodgers are probably doing this to appease Selig and get on his good side.
2007-11-10 11:19:47
45.   Louis in SF
To me the LAT article about Vero Beach is another example of the heavy hand of the McCourts. You want to leave Vero with class-barely playing ten games and then going off to China and coming back to AZ seems to be a long spring and would impact people including myself who want to see Vero Beach before the Dodgers leave.

Have the Padres committed to China yet?

2007-11-10 11:19:57
46.   Marty
Selig had a letter in today's Times supporting Frank.
2007-11-10 11:26:04
47.   dzzrtRatt
44 So does that mean we get to pay the freight for next year's draft choices, instead of having to stop at the artificial "slot" bonus rate?

I thought we did that to appease Bud Selig.

2007-11-10 11:27:13
48.   Bluebleeder87

Meloan's fastball would take a significant hit if he would become a starter (I'm thinking 88-90MPH) his fastball is also pretty straight so I think the coaches who switched him to a reliever did him a favor. I'd be more than happy if he proves us all wrong but as it stands I like him as a reliever plenty more.

2007-11-10 11:27:56
49.   natepurcell

We do a lot of things to appease Selig. Maybe the culmination is that Selig won't get pissed when we give Arod 250mil dollars.

2007-11-10 11:30:15
50.   CajunDodger
Doing my quick math, it looks as if the Dodgers have about $40 million coming off of the payroll after this season. If we do not trade any of the good young 'uns this offseason, that will mean that Ethier, Bills, Broxton, and Martin will be eligible for arbitration for the first time (I believe).

Assuming some sort of long term deal (especially for Martin) I will subtract about $12 million from that total. That is some serious dough coming off at the right time with all of those guys except Lowe having ready replacements waiting in the wings.

Our fiscal situation looks good enough to go after ARod this year or wait and get a world beater rotation next year.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall during the Ng/White/Watson/Colletti meetings to see what they think...

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-10 11:32:35
51.   natepurcell
An answer from say Nate Purcell or any of the other prospect guys would be great.

I actually have seen Meloan quite a bit. He went to my college and I use to watch his starts during his junior year.

When he starts or pitches for a long length, his stuff diminishes a bit and his fb doesn't have the same velocity and his breaking pitches do not have the same bite. I also think the recoil action in his delivery will give his elbow significant problems if he logs a lot of innings.

I mean, he could definitely start. He has grown up starting and has done it to start his professional career. But to maximize his stuff, he is better off going in 1-2 inning stints.

2007-11-10 11:35:12
52.   Bob Timmermann
Marty, did you know that Gus's Bar-B-Q, home of South Pasadena's worst food is now closed for remodeling and will reopen under new management?
2007-11-10 11:36:55
53.   dzzrtRatt
Selig's letter gives McCourt credit for increasing the population of Southern California:

On Nov. 6, it was written that my office was "concerned about the McCourts' scorecard." In just four years of Frank and Jamie McCourt's stewardship, the Dodgers have increased their fan base by more than 600,000, have invested nearly $120 million into renovating Dodger Stadium, donated millions of dollars to the community and Major League Baseball initiatives such as the Compton Youth Academy and the Jackie Robinson Scholarship Foundation, and invested heavily in improving their minor league system.

If he wanted to say "increased attendance," why didn't he?

2007-11-10 11:40:33
54.   dzzrtRatt
51 Given Meloan's skills, why aren't we considering throwing either him or Broxton into the mix for Florida instead of Kershaw? They seem to be redundant.

P.S. I wonder if middle relief is the plan for Chan Ho? Does he have that kind of ability?

2007-11-10 11:47:26
55.   natepurcell

Definitely, but I would rather toss in Meloan if we had to decide between the two.

2007-11-10 11:48:26
56.   LAT
Bears, I'm just saying that under the best circumstances the MLB season is a grind. Throw in a trip to China in the preseason and it becomes longer. The Clippers found this out after playing preseason games in Moscow last year. They started the regular season slowly and never recoverd. Now this may have more to do with the Clippers being the Clippers but the trip to Moscow didn't help. MLB should be sending the D'Rays and Royals. That way a trip to China won't make a diffrence.
2007-11-10 11:49:41
57.   Marty
52 Hopefully, only the sign will remain.
2007-11-10 11:51:47
58.   silverwidow
50 Broxton is definitely arb eligible after next season. Martin & Ethier could also be as Super Two's.

Bills has to wait until after 2009.

2007-11-10 11:57:20
59.   LAT
Of course Bud's letter fails to respond to the issue raised by the LAT article, that the McCourt's 3 GMs and 3 Managers in 4 years is concerning.
2007-11-10 11:59:34
60.   old dodger fan
There needs to be at least a week between the day the Dodgers return from China until the 1st regular season game. If they get that they should be fine.
2007-11-10 12:01:27
61.   the2pin
The Dodgers need two big bats. Say it with me. The Dodgers need two big bats.
2007-11-10 12:02:40
62.   underdog
Good thing the Dodgers don't have any Tibetan players.
2007-11-10 12:07:17
63.   regfairfield
61 Where would said big bats go?
2007-11-10 12:09:38
64.   old dodger fan
61 The Dodgers need to keep the big bats they have. 2 more would be good but I will be happy if just keep what we have.

62 If they can play let's sign em.

2007-11-10 12:11:11
65.   Icaros

Say it with me. Matt Kemp and James Loney.

2007-11-10 12:14:34
66.   Sub4Era
2008 - Sign ARod... stand pat(unless Piazza for cheap)
Young splits time with slappy

2009 - Abreu in for Kent
Kershaw in for Lowe
Hu in for Furcal
Extend Penny
Have a field day on legit FA's

It just seems so much more efficient than giving up anything for Cabrera. I know hes amazing and 8 years younger but I don't feel ARods drop off being too dramatic over the next 5 years baring injuries considering his work-ethic

2007-11-10 12:14:35
67.   Benaiah
63 - The Dodgers need to get rid of one or two very little bats and just have a solid 1-8. The Dodgers scored nearly 100 more runs in 06 because they didn't have black holes at SS, CF, 3B/1B (where ever Nomar was playing) or to put it another way, in the 1,2 and 3 spots in the lineup.
2007-11-10 12:17:32
68.   Benaiah
66 - The Dodgers can just pick up Penny's option in 09, rather than extending him. I agree though. Give Laroche a real shot at 3B this year and if you aren't happy then make a run at a 2-3 year contract with Chipper Jones. The money could be there to sign a true ace to compliment a pretty solid staff already.
2007-11-10 12:17:47
69.   the2pin
Loney? No. Loney projects to hit for a high average with 20-25 power. Which is fine, but certainly not spectacular, for a 1B. On the other hand, given the putrid power the Dodgers displayed this season -- team high 20 HRs? -- Loney has some potential.

Kemp is exciting, I agree, but the Dodgers still need power this offseason.

2007-11-10 12:20:21
70.   the2pin
Additionally, though I love trade speculation as much as the next guy, ace pitchers and young stars almost never go on the market.

If we need to trade a fourth outfielder on a good team (that's you, Andre Ethier) to get star-quality talent, it needs to be done.

2007-11-10 12:36:16
71.   natepurcell

how do you figure to trade a fourth outfielder on a good team to get star quality talent?

2007-11-10 12:37:17
72.   rockmrete
Ethier alone is not getting you Star talent. Who else do you have in mind?
2007-11-10 12:38:48
73.   Sub4Era
70 I'm assuming the "ace pitchers and young stars" you are talking about are Willis and Cabrera? The problem with trying to go for them now is that it severely hampers our chances to make a splash in a far more interesting FA market next season because of the players we would lose in the mix. The LaRoche, Kershaw, Kemp type contracts are the ones allowing the financial freedom to go after guys like A-Rod. Besides, the only "big bats" available are both playing 3rd base...
2007-11-10 12:41:17
74.   Gagne55
Ethier is not a fourth outfielder. He's more of a 3.5
2007-11-10 12:41:40
75.   rockmrete
ARod at third, and LaRoache in Left sounds good to me, Preferably with Kemp in CF, and Ethier in Right
2007-11-10 12:44:18
76.   Curtis Lowe
I haven't posted for awhile but have followed a good chunk of the past 2 months of dodger discussion during daily downtimes with my cell.

I am in the sign A-rod camp, I would rather the dodgers trade an obscene amount of money for a top tier player than and obscene amount of talent.

If they do trade for MC I wouldn't give up more than LaRoche,Ethier and MacDonald with maybe some cash incentives or a throw in second/third rate prospect.

2007-11-10 12:44:56
77.   rockmrete
Besides ARod, my wish is another starter. I don't want to pin next year's hopes on the health of Schmidt, Loiza, Kguo, and Wolf
2007-11-10 12:48:56
78.   rockmrete
I aggree with that offer, I don't know that Florida will bite, but I would prefer to keep our talent and see what it can do. And save our bullets for 2009's FA.
2007-11-10 12:50:22
79.   Lexinthedena
It's not fair that Ethier has ben christened a 4th outfielder...

I can see him with an OB% of 340, hitting between 15 and 20 hr's and driving a fair amount of runs...he is not a player who you build around, but he is not a bench player...

2007-11-10 12:53:32
80.   DavidS
with Lowell able to negotiate with other teams starting this week and no deal in Boston where does Lowell fit with Cabrera and ARod in coming to LA to play for Torre (think they have some good history)? Something like ARod 40%, Cabrera 25%, Lowell 25%, Laroche is starting 3baseman 10%.
2007-11-10 12:55:57
81.   Lexinthedena
I really hope that Lowell is not a Dodger next year.....
2007-11-10 12:58:22
82.   adamclyde
ok, folks. This thread reminds me that I need some advice. I'm heading down to Vero Beach this year (one of the many who will make their first and only trip). I really don't know the spring training drill too well. Aside from making sure I see a few home games, are there any other mandatory things to make the trip complete?

And, are the games usually day games?

2007-11-10 12:59:18
83.   rockmrete
I think Lowell is a good example of someone like Nomar, and Kent(09 version) that is going to be overpaid on the downside of their career for performances past
2007-11-10 13:10:46
84.   natepurcell
Looking at the roster crunch, Nomar is the bigger elephant in the room than Pierre. He is due 8.5 mil next year and can't hit anymore. Yet, he will probably still get his at bats somehow.
2007-11-10 13:11:18
85.   Icaros

Loney has a career OPS of .915. 05 and 06 combined give him a full season of plate appearances. .900 OPS is a big bat, regardless of how many HRs were hit in the process.

2007-11-10 13:15:14
86.   LAT
I would rather have Arod than Cabrara. Don't have to give up talent and Arod will make you back some of that money when he closes in on the HR record. Plus it would be fun to have a Dodger own the most important record in sports.
2007-11-10 13:18:48
87.   Icaros

Plus A-Rod isn't on the Chris Farley diet.

2007-11-10 13:19:46
88.   LAT
84. I'm probably deluding myself, but I am hoping that Nomar is so disappointed by last season he will change his plate dicipline and take a few more walks and singles. He has to recognize he is not the hitter he was.
2007-11-10 13:21:30
89.   63Dodger
If McCourt wants to keep referring to Dodger history, he better start being a more responsible keeper of the flame. Exiting Vero Beach with class instead of crass is a must.
2007-11-10 13:21:58
90.   the2pin
73 wrote: "problem with trying to go for them now is that it severely hampers our chances to make a splash in a far more interesting FA market next season because of the players we would lose in the mix"

Who do you think is realistically going to be available? Young all-star talent almost always get resigned because GMs cannot let that talent walk and expect to keep their jobs.

This is why I advocate making a run at A-Rod, Cabrera, Johan, et al. this offseason.

79 As far as I am concerned you have defined a fourth outfielder: a guy capable of hitting 16 HR with an OB% of 340.

Look, I do not want to trade the kids. However, why keep mediocre young talent? Keep Kemp, yes, because he has massive upside. Does Ethier? Really?

85 I could quibble about whether 400 OPS is really a big bat, but suffice to say I basically agree with you that Loney is a quality player (and a guy with "upside").

However, how many players in the Dodger lineup strike fear in an opposing pitcher? How many players would you want to pitch around with runners on base?

SOLUTION: Sign A-Rod, trade for Jason Bay. Bay is coming off a down year but is still relatively young and would not require as much premium talent (read: Andre Ethier, not Matt Kemp).

2007-11-10 13:23:46
91.   LAT
As I have said before, I am most concerned about Kent this season. Given his age he is overdue to drop off. I fear he will be the 2008 Nomar and no one is tell the emperor of second base that he has no clothes. I hope I am wrong.
2007-11-10 13:26:15
92.   Curtis Lowe
87 - Speedballs and Hookers?

I'm hoping that Nomar takes one for the team and waives his no trade clause if the Dodgers sign A-rod. I also support the idea of giving LaRoche a try at 2nd and left.

If Ned insists on trading for MC than I hope he tells the Marlins either Kerhsaw and Abreu or LaRoche and Macdonald.

2007-11-10 13:39:03
93.   Bluebleeder87

Good point RockMrete but NedCo doesn't work that way.

2007-11-10 13:44:14
94.   gpellamjr
92 I can't imagine that Ned would prefer to trade for Cabrera when Arod is available through free agency. Doesn't all the Cabrera talk seem like a ploy to drive down Arod's value?
2007-11-10 13:48:16
95.   gpellamjr
90 Clearly a "400 OPS" is not much of a bat. But if you mean 900, as I think you do, and you are implying that that does not equal a "big bat", then how many players in MLB have a big bat?

I think a lot of us are underrating the talent we have. Why assume that Ethier will OBP .340, when he's OBPed better than that each of his first two years in the majors? Why assume that Loney is not a power bat, when he's shown in the majors that he has power, and he's OPSed over .900 in a season's worth of PAs?

2007-11-10 13:49:56
96.   gpellamjr

2007-11-10 13:52:01
97.   Bluebleeder87

Jason Bay is more of a meh (so-so slugger) than an awesome slugger. ARONS!

2007-11-10 13:53:50
98.   Lexinthedena
I want A-Rod, Pierre dealt out of town, and an outfield of Ethier, Kemp, and Young...
2007-11-10 13:54:38
99.   Lexinthedena
By the way, Delwyin Young is going to be a spectacular hitter....Manny minus 20 hr's.....
2007-11-10 14:04:42
100.   natepurcell
Which of these pitchers would do you like the most in return for Andy Laroche...

Matt Garza
Ian Snell
Tom Gorzelanny
Ian Kennedy
Andrew Miller

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-10 14:08:07
101.   Bluebleeder87

The only one I've seen pitch is Ian Snell so I'll go with him, the others must be AL'rs

2007-11-10 14:15:22
102.   rockmrete
Pittsburg may want to unite the LaRoache brothers, maybe we can talk them out of Sanchez as well.
2007-11-10 14:17:32
103.   natepurcell

Whats the point of Sanchez?

2007-11-10 14:17:37
104.   Bluebleeder87
Here are some Ian Snell 2006 Career Highlights:
By Year:
Spent first full season in the major leagues with Pittsburgh...Led club in victories and strikeouts...Recorded the most wins by a Pittsburgh pitcher since Todd Ritchie won 15 games in 1999...His 169 strikeouts were the most by a Pirates righthander since Kris Benson recorded 184 in 2000...Ranked 10th among National League pitchers with an 8.2 strikeouts/9.0ip ratio. ...Tied for fifth among National League pitchers in home runs allowed...Ranked 10th in the National League with a 3.94 road ERA. ...Went 13-8 with a 4.63 ERA (159.1ip/82er) in 27 starts against National League opponents...Worked at least 7.0 innings in nine of his 32 starts (posted an 8-1 record in those games)...

From his player profile. Pretty nice Résume if you ask me.

2007-11-10 14:18:50
105.   rockmrete
Just being greedy
2007-11-10 14:26:24
106.   regfairfield
99 Garza or Snell.

105 Sanchez is probably worse than Abreu.

2007-11-10 14:27:02
107.   Sub4Era
90 If they are gonna be resigned then why are they being delt? They are dealing them because they cant resign them, otherwise why even have this conversation to begin with. And you keep bringing up Ethier in all these trades... NONE of the players you have mentioned with big bats are gonna go for anything less than 2 or 3 tier one prospects. Ethier isnt one of those. Im sorry but it is completely unrealistic to attempt at the players you want without
a) making serious holes at other positions and
b) completely obliterating our farm system and going right back to the Pre-Dan Evans route that ruined us for the previous 15 years.
2007-11-10 14:28:55
108.   Johnny Nucleo
Very early as yet, but I am hoping to visit Dodgertown this year. Would love to meet up with some DT'ers in the process.
2007-11-10 14:32:20
109.   natepurcell

I was thinking the same thing. Both the Pirates and Twins are desperate for young, talented positional players.

2007-11-10 14:35:05
110.   regfairfield
109 I do think that Garza is unrealistic, and that the Twins would probably deal Slowey instead. Huntington seems like the type of guy that would love LaRoche, so there's a bette chance we'll get Snell.
2007-11-10 14:38:46
111.   rockmrete
Who on the Pirates was among the league leaders in batting the last couple years?
2007-11-10 14:43:30
112.   Marty
Illinois up by two touchdowns over Ohio State late in the third.
2007-11-10 14:47:04
113.   natepurcell

One of the reasons I said Garza is because he had a little tiff with Twins management earlier in the year and that might have rubbed them the wrong way.

Garza and Laroche are comparable talents, both were ranked within 5 spots of each other by BA coming into this season.

2007-11-10 14:50:03
114.   KG16
84 - the way I see Nomar getting his at bats is thusly: one game per week at third, one game per week at first, a couple games as DH in AL parks, and one AB in all other games as a pinch hitter in the 5/6/7 inning for the pitcher. At least, that's the way that I would use him, and if the race is tight come late August/early September, he could figure that he'd be getting few days in the starting line up (if he's not producing).

I really have this feeling that the Dodgers are going to rue the day they trade Andre Ethier. I just have this feeling that he's going to be a guy that puts up a line like this: .310/.400/.450, 20 HR, 85 RBI. This talk that he's a forth outfielder is absolutely absurd. He might not be an All-Star (at least not every year) but he's going to be very good. My take is that his numbers were down this year because he got yanked around on playing time.

The strategy for next year should be to tell Kemp, Ethier, and LaRoche that they all have starting jobs and let them see what they can do without the constant threat of a 0-4 day sending them to the bench for a week. The core of those three guys plus Loney and Martin will be formidable what will be an incredibly tough NL West next year.

2007-11-10 14:54:16
115.   Jon Weisman
82 I only went in 1992, but I just hung out around the complex, saw a game and took off. I was doing a mini-tour of different Spring Training homes. Most home games are day - if not all. For some reason, I have it in my head that the Dodgers only played at night on the road, but I could be having a brain cramp.
2007-11-10 14:55:02
116.   rockmrete

I should use my resources (internet) before I throw out a name like that. While Sanchez was good for the Pirates, Abreu going forward seems the better play.

2007-11-10 14:57:32
117.   regfairfield
111 Batting average is very highly variable. Sanchez lacks the glove for second and needs to hit in the .330s to be a productive third baseman.
2007-11-10 14:58:40
118.   regfairfield
114 Where's that patience coming from?
2007-11-10 15:01:54
119.   Jon Weisman
Ohio State losing in the fourth quarter.
2007-11-10 15:04:06
120.   KG16
118 - you mean in me wanting to see Ethier play? or in his OBP?

To answer the first, I'm fairly certain that I've shown myself to be one of the biggest marks here for Ethier.

To answer the second, I think experience will get him there. He's put up OBP of .365 and .350 with BAs of .308 and .284, so I think the potential is there. I don't have stats to back it up, but my guess is that younger players (especially hitting in the 8 hole) are challenged a bit more than vets and therefore get more pitches to hit, so I would expect their "isolated patience" to be a bit smaller earlier in their career.

I also think it's interesting that the Baseball Reference list of guys that he's most similar to at 25 includes Jacque Jones, Kirk Gibson, Jason Giambi, and Aubrey Huff. Not necessarily Hall of Famers, but good guys to have in the line up.

2007-11-10 15:06:19
121.   Megaballs
A Rod is coming to Anaheim. O.C. Boras's backyard. Where the owner collects Latinos. Talks of fiscal discipline and respect for Vlad publicly. Then calls Vladdy. "You want ARod on your team? OK. A contract extension. Ok, I'll see what I can do.
You think ARod wants to change leagues?
Moreno's coveted his neighbors 3b for a couple of years.

Dodgers need nothing but that Japanese starter for 3yrs, 24 mil.

Let LaRoche duke it out at 3b w/Nomar. OF Young,Kemp, Ethier, Pierre maybe as pinch runner for Torre. Martin, Loney, Kent/Abreu@2b, Furcal/Hu@SS...pen solid adding Meloan, etc to Brox,Proctor, Saito et al.

We need solid starting pitching...injury prone guys mean need depth. Lowe's hip? Schmidt's arm? Loaiza?

The real story is extending guys and building a stable studly team for the next 5 years. Extend Penny. Get ready to buyout 2 years of free agency over the next couple of years for Billz, Broxton, Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier. We're fine. As was said a couple of months back, marry the future of this team. You will lock these kids up. Guys will sign up in arb years if only to protect them against injuries. And it doesn't even cost draft picks if you grow with this team. The unspoken truth is that most any successful organization needs talented and affordable players to offset the inevitable high costs of the 27-28 +year olds with 6 years MLB experience. They all know it. Heck, even Cashman gets it.

Hu or Furcal in 2009? Decide now.

2007-11-10 15:07:33
122.   natepurcell
I think Ethier could spike at an ISOd of 80-90 one of these years but he's going to level off where he is now, 55-70 ISOd.
2007-11-10 15:08:27
123.   regfairfield
120 Walk rate actually isn't affected by hitting in the eight hole, except for intentional walks.

It seems like a rare thing when a player takes a big jump in isolated patience, and expecting Ethier to go up by 35 to 40 points seems way too enthusiastic.

2007-11-10 15:12:50
124.   KG16
123 - the walk rate point wasn't so much about hitting 8th (though I think it does matter situationally), but because he's young. Young hitters get challenged until they put up big numbers, then pitchers tend to work around them. It's the nature of baseball.

And Ethier seems to have a good eye, so I wouldn't be surprised to see his patience numbers jump. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but someone's got to stand up to all the flack he takes around here.

2007-11-10 15:21:41
125.   D4P
I did some research, and found that a loss by The Ohio State University would help My Beloved Ducks, though there's no guarantee MBD will win the rest of their games.
2007-11-10 15:25:10
126.   D4P
First down!
2007-11-10 15:26:14
127.   D4P
When you play the Illini, you're gonna get a fight.
2007-11-10 15:34:36
128.   Marty
I get all giddy whenever Ohio State loses.
2007-11-10 15:41:50
129.   D4P
I get all giddy whenever Oregon controls its own destiny for National Championship game qualification.
2007-11-10 15:43:39
130.   underdog
I think that was one of the dumbest passes I've ever seen a UCLA QB throw, and certainly not the best time for it.
2007-11-10 15:58:22
131.   trainwreck
I thought the computers control their destiny.
2007-11-10 15:59:38
132.   trainwreck
USC basketball lost in the pre-season and they lost their opener today.
2007-11-10 16:15:13
133.   Gen3Blue
I'm scared every time I go to a baseball site at this time of year. I guess I'm a bit over-conservative about keeping our young player, but darn it I feel better with home grown players. But no, this is not the strongest force influencing me. It is the fact that I don't trust ownership/management to get any value in a trade. And even if I thought they were good traders, they haven't been here long enough to deserve to make these kind of decisions.
2007-11-10 16:20:07
134.   Bob Timmermann
Navy leads North Texas 74-62 late in the 4th quarter.
I worry about our national defense.
2007-11-10 16:24:17
135.   PadreJeremy
The Pirates would be absolutely foolish to trade Snell for LaRoche.

If the Dodgers trade LaRoche now in a deal that does not bring back Miggy or some other stud 3b, then they will end up paying more then they would have otherwise if they later sign Arod. If they try to trade him after they sign Arod, teams will expect to get him cheaper then they would otherwise.

I see LaRoche in a deal for Miggy, especially after the Dodgers realize that Boras is going to expect 30 mil a year for 10 yrs for Arod or he is back in AAA next year unless he is given the 3b job because the Dodgers didnt make a trade for a 3b or sign Arod.

Timing is bad for the Dodgers to trade LaRoche for any of those desired pitchers even if you could get the other team to do it.

2007-11-10 16:27:09
136.   JoeyP
How do you lose to Mercer, with OJ Mayo on the team?
2007-11-10 16:27:27
137.   natepurcell
The Pirates would be absolutely foolish to trade Snell for LaRoche.

Why? Have you seen the ZIPs projections for that offense?

2007-11-10 16:47:05
138.   airforceone
Mega. You are absolutely correct about the direction the Dodgers should take in 2008 and the future. Your position is one of patience and fiscal responsibility. There is no guarantee that the ridiculous spending for AROD or the insane trading of high ceiling rookies will amount to winning the NL West, much less a WS appearance. Sign the best free agent pitcher available (including from Japan) and take your chances. The Dodgers have enough hitting if the shore up the starting pitching.
2007-11-10 16:52:16
139.   trainwreck
Because one player does not make a team and before the end of the game when he went on a roll, he was shooting terribly.

Kind of odd, but USC has never won an opener with Floyd as coach.

2007-11-10 17:28:23
140.   Bluebleeder87
Give us Alex Rodriguez or Miggy Cabrera if not just play La Roche all year long, I know it's not gonna happen though & I'm sure a lot of us are gonna be cursing at Nomar all year long.
2007-11-10 17:43:29
141.   Lexinthedena
I have a bad feeling that the big splash the Dodgers make is going to be Andruw Jones or Aaron Rowand.....I hope I'm wrong, because Ethier and Young both deserve to play.
2007-11-10 17:58:03
142.   Bluebleeder87

I don't mind A. Jones at all I think if he gets a FRESH START with a new club couple that with the bad year he had I'm sure he's aching to prove he is still an elite player, again I wouldn't mind him at all.

2007-11-10 17:59:14
143.   dzzrtRatt
Jones would be a big splash. Rowand would be a big huh?

I'd be scared off of Jones for the 'duh' reason that his offense declined so much. A Boras-type contract would be a risk.

But if Ned can figure out a way to slip Pierre to another team, then I wouldn't mind Jones. As with ARod, I don't worry about the money because it isn't mine.

2007-11-10 18:01:14
144.   therickdaddy
Wow. Amazing that the conversations these days have come to "I wouldn't mind Jones". I guess it's good days to be a Dodger fan? At least a few years past Jason Phillips hitting clean-up.
2007-11-10 18:02:30
145.   gpellamjr
143 If we had an outfield of Ethier/Jones/Kemp, where would you rank that group defensively compared to the NL? I have to imagine it's near the top, three athletic guys with good arms. It would certainly be a lot more fun to watch than what they threw out there in '07.
2007-11-10 18:03:40
146.   natepurcell

That's a top tier defensive outfield.

2007-11-10 18:12:37
147.   bigcpa
Soriano WARP
Age 28 - 4.7
Age 29 - 4.0
Age 30 - 6.4
career: .282/.327/.517

Jones WARP
Age 28 - 8.5
Age 29 - 7.1
Age 30 - 4.6
career: .263/.342/.497

If Soriano is worth 8/$136M then Jones should be a bargain for someone. I found it hard to believe he's washed up at 30.

2007-11-10 18:27:08
148.   Megaballs
The idea that we gotta make a big splash with free agents or big trade when the base of the team is maturing (moreso than at anytime in recent memory) is sad...

The grass is always greener if you let it, I guess...but that usually means the problem is you. (Ned and McCourt.)

What would be brilliant would be to focus on the one stealth FA and land 'em while Boras and Florida yank everyone's chain.

2007-11-10 18:38:28
149.   LAT
Off topic: Yesterday, I am driving down Purdue near Olympic and I see a recent model Blackberry lying in the middle of the road. I stop and pick it up. When I get home I look in the addresses and find the owners cell phone and leave him a message. Turns out he works in an office building on Purdue and left it on the hood of his car.
He calls me back at 10:30 pm and tells me he is out of town so would I put it in a manelia envelope with his name, drive it back to his office today and leave it with the guard. Is that some new language for "Thank you so much. Let me know where and when I can pick it up." I'm a reasonable guy but I told him he could pick it up from my office downtown.

Now I know its a little thing but I was annoyed by how presumptious this guy was. I should have known better. He works for a law firm.

2007-11-10 18:42:46
150.   thinkblue0

Oh man, that stinks. I have a quick story kind of like that.

The other night in Silver Lake I walk into Subway and there's a homeless guy outside. I go in and buy him a footlong turkey sandwich. When I come out and hand it to him, he takes it, looks at me and my friend and goes "do you guys by chance have a cigarette?"

I don't wish that I didn't buy him the sandwich...he looked hungry and I hope he really did enjoy it...but jeez....

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-10 18:43:30
151.   D4P
Was his name "Steve" by any chance...?
2007-11-10 18:55:55
152.   Louis in SF
Any possibility that the Orioles would be interested in getting Pierre and some pitching prospect for Tejada?
2007-11-10 18:56:00
153.   Bob Timmermann
A coworker was asked once to be reimbursed by the library for the cellphone of his that was stolen when he left it behind on a table.

He was not reimbursed.

2007-11-10 18:56:54
154.   Bob Timmermann
That wasn't clear. It wasn't a coworker who lost the phone. It was a library patron who asked a coworker.
2007-11-10 18:57:51
155.   Bob Timmermann
It looks like Stanford's bowl hopes will die tonight.
2007-11-10 19:14:59
156.   regfairfield
152 The Orioles are the only organization both incompetent enough to want Pierre and need him, so I can't just shoot that down outright.
2007-11-10 19:18:52
157.   gpellamjr
151 Just let it go, my friend.
2007-11-10 19:27:16
158.   regfairfield
3/12 with a four million dollar option for J.C. Romero.
2007-11-10 20:03:06
159.   blue22
158 - Was he not just released last year? The same guy that had 40 walks and 42 K's in 56 innings last year?

What's wrong with these people?

2007-11-10 20:09:15
160.   blue22
156 - Or they could just offer Corey Patterson anything to return and get the exact same player.
2007-11-10 20:14:00
161.   Icaros
Hey LAT,

I need you to swing by my ex-gf's place and pick up some books of mine she still has. If you could deliver them personally to my office in Oakland by 4:00 Monday afternoon I'd appreciate it.

2007-11-10 20:28:12
162.   63Dodger
Discussion of Ethier's numbers should include a consideration of the unease he has rightfully felt in never having the chance so far to just own his position. I just like his presence at the plate and in the field. He has the potential to be a solid producer year in and year out. Backbone of the team.
2007-11-10 20:31:52
163.   Daniel Zappala
LAT, can you get some milk while you're out?
2007-11-10 20:37:11
164.   Bob Timmermann
LAT is depositing a package for me at my secret Swiss bank in Zurich.

I guess it would be less secret if I hadn't written the address down on the package.

2007-11-10 21:20:58
165.   Linkmeister
Hey, Bob, UH is up 31-10 over Fresno State midway through the 2nd quarter.

ESPN2 is blacked out here.

2007-11-10 21:21:35
166.   dzzrtRatt
149 Like I always tell my son... for that lawyer, being who he is is more than ample punishment. Imagine having to wake up every morning and be the guy who expects to be treated like that. He's constantly frustrated and probably doesn't know why.
2007-11-10 21:22:52
167.   regfairfield
166 Though waking up on a large pile of money with lots of beautiful women probably helps.
2007-11-10 21:23:27
168.   Kevin Lewis
I for one would love to see Ethier get a fair shot at being a full time player next year. I really think he could be a solid producer for years to come, and I hate the juggling act he had to go through last year.
2007-11-10 21:24:13
169.   Kevin Lewis
I was just introduced to Battlestar Galactica tonight. There goes the next few weeks of social interaction.
2007-11-10 21:32:25
170.   KG16
149 - perhaps it's because I'm in the legal profession, I'd have to know more facts before I commented on the guy's request. There are scenarios where I don't think it would be out of line, for example: that is an area which you frequent and would be going today anyway. I suppose it also depends on the delivery. Also, don't presume he's a jerk because he works at a law firm, I've found the jerkness tends to predate the legal education for most.

166 - don't by the hype of Boston Legal, real life is more like the Practice. I mean, it depends on how big of a firm and the type of law he practices.

2007-11-10 21:42:36
171.   Linkmeister
34-16 UH at the half. UH scored on a 50-yard field goal with no time left.
2007-11-10 21:44:17
172.   Bob Timmermann
The Fresno State broadcasters are doing ESPN's broadcast. They use Randy Rosenbloom as an analyst.

I'm not sure why. I guess there are no famous former Fresno State players who want to come back.

2007-11-10 21:48:12
173.   Linkmeister
Hmm. Locally, K5 will be showing a replay at 10:00 am tomorrow. I doubt you'd be able to tune in, though.

Rosenbloom is not a familiar name.

2007-11-10 21:49:51
174.   Bob Timmermann
Randy Rosenbloom has been in the L.A. market for years and almost always has called whatever the least glamorous event would be.

He's done a lot of high school sports. He's the sort of guy you would hear calling things like minor league hockey. Or UC Irvine basketball.

2007-11-10 21:52:31
175.   Linkmeister
Utility infielder.
2007-11-10 21:55:24
176.   Bob Timmermann
He's sort of like a utility infielder who is at AAA most of the time.
2007-11-10 21:58:18
177.   Linkmeister
Grins. With unlimited options!
2007-11-10 22:03:52
178.   Telemachos
169 "I was just introduced to Battlestar Galactica tonight. There goes the next few weeks of social interaction. "

So say we all.

2007-11-10 22:16:00
179.   LAT
Whew I just picked up Icaros' books and dropped them off at Bob's library. Picked up Bob's Swiss bank package and gave it to A-Rod. Stopped by Brad Penny's house and grabbed some milk for Danial.

166. Ratt, I always enjoy your perspective.

170. He works for Mitchell Silberberg Knupp. Not like Boston Legal or the Practice.

2007-11-10 22:47:54
180.   Bob Timmermann
The Carolina Panthers signed Drew Olson to be their backup (or third string depending upon Vinny Testaverde's health) quarterback behind Matt Moore.

Two men inextricably linked.

2007-11-10 23:07:00
181.   Xeifrank
To me a Dodgers spring training trip to China is pretty exciting. I too worry about the fatigue factor. Every time I've travelled to the far east, I've had TERRIBLE jet-lag upon returning to the west coast. We are talking the kind of jet-lag that takes a full week to recover from. The trips were all great, but they better take the jet-lag recovery time into consideration. Flying first class on a private jet would help out though. If the Dodgers had gone at the end of last March, I could've watched them play as that was when I was there. I won't be there this March, but if they were to play the World Series in China next year and the Dodgers were in it, I would be there to watch. My next trip is one month after the Olympics are over (Sep/Oct-2008). Have I ever mentioned how awful the air quality is there? :) Any team playing over there is going to want to load up on anti-biotics. But the shopping/food/tourist sites are A+.

vr, Xei
vr, Xei

2007-11-10 23:30:12
182.   Eric Enders
So, I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but Bruce Springsteen has finally weighed in on the issue of the 2008 Dodgers lineup.

"Bruce offered... a hard-strummed take on the Rivieras' 'California Sun,' with modified lyrics in honor of Torre: "I'm goin' to where the palm trees are swayin'/Nobody gonna second-guess just who I'm playin'!"

2007-11-10 23:49:50
183.   Greg Brock
169 Welcome to one of the best shows of the past decade.
2007-11-10 23:52:34
184.   Greg Brock
157 So long as we remember him, Steve will never truly be gone.

That, and that fact that he's still around.

2007-11-11 01:16:31
185.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I should get some sleep instead of watching the DVDs of BSG then.
2007-11-11 02:03:49
186.   Marty
LAT, if you are still up, I could use some orange juice and danish. Thanks
2007-11-11 02:04:06
187.   Marty
LAT is the new Pink Dot.
2007-11-11 08:02:59
188.   Daniel Zappala
The other thing that helps when you're traveling as a famous athlete -- besides first class -- you probably will have a direct flight. You won't have to stop over in Japan, and then have the pilot for the next leg get sick, and then have the airline tell you there are no other pilots, so you're stuck in Japan for 24 hours. And you won't be promised a free flight for your inconvenience and then be mailed a voucher for $50. Yes, I'm still bitter at United Airlines.
2007-11-11 08:06:12
189.   Daniel Zappala
All you Cal fans -- I got my first look at Cal uniforms in today's LA Times -- how long have they worn the bright blue and yellow with a "C" on their helmets? I don't remember their uniforms looking that garish.
2007-11-11 08:08:55
190.   Jon Weisman
189 - Those were throwbacks to the mid-1970s.
2007-11-11 08:21:21
191.   Marty
I'm embarrassed that I didn't remember who Joe Roth was.
2007-11-11 08:33:58
192.   Bumsrap
A guywith 7 ex-wives, wearing suspenders and a bow tie says Kent wants to return to the Dodgers next year.
2007-11-11 08:37:26
193.   D4P
My dad has 7 ex-wives (technically, only 6 because he married and divorced one woman twice), but doesn't wear suspenders or a bow tie.
2007-11-11 08:50:09
194.   Greg Brock
When I was going to St. Ives I met a man with seven wives.
2007-11-11 09:03:18
195.   Daniel Zappala
Does anyone keep records for this sort of thing?
2007-11-11 09:21:04
196.   Gagne55
195 It would be pretty hard to top King Solomon.

"Among his wives were seven hundred princesses and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart."
-1 Kings 11:3

2007-11-11 09:22:24
197.   Jon Weisman
From Bill Plaschke today:

In the final three games of Bob Toledo's final three seasons, he was 2-9, and look what happened to him.

2007-11-11 09:29:41
198.   Bob Timmermann
How do you play 11 games in that time period? The final three games of the final three seasons should be nine games.

Is the LA Times no longer using base 10?

2007-11-11 09:31:19
199.   Jon Weisman
Look at me
I can be
Center field

2007-11-11 09:31:48
200.   D4P
What is the probability of The Ohio State still being ranked in the top 2 of the BCS...?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-11-11 09:32:05
201.   Jon Weisman
198 - Such is my question. You have stumbled upon the exact reason I referenced the paragraph.
2007-11-11 09:34:39
202.   Bob Timmermann
Less than 1%

tOSU will drop too far down in the coaches and Harris polls. They already weren't ranked very high by the computers.

2007-11-11 09:36:34
203.   Bob Timmermann
The correct figure is 2-7.
2007-11-11 09:39:11
204.   D4P
What is the probability that someone (e.g. Kansas) passes Oregon in the next BCS rankings?
2007-11-11 09:54:43
205.   blue22
199 - Ichiro and Coco rate out as the best CFers there but using Dewan/James plus/minus, Coco gets a +22 and Ichiro only a +4. Both methods are based on some form of "predicted plays made" too. The struggle for consistent defensive metrics continues...
2007-11-11 09:56:37
206.   MC Safety
Are there any Xbox Live gamers here on DT?
2007-11-11 09:57:24
207.   jasonungar07
So Jeff Kent is coming back according to Larry King (sounds funny to say but it's on
2007-11-11 10:01:00
208.   still bevens
206 I have a ton of xbox games, but am too timid to play multiplayer on live. Something about getting owned by 12 year olds whose voices havent changed scares me. However, I recently got the Orange Box so Team Fortress might change my mind.
2007-11-11 10:07:40
209.   D4P
Random question:

From the standpoint of killing germs, are you better off washing your hands

1. in cold water with soap, or
2. in hot water without soap?

2007-11-11 10:13:46
210.   Bob Timmermann
I'm no public health expert, but I'm going for #1.

The most important thing is actually to dry your hands completely.

2007-11-11 10:18:03
211.   D4P
What are the risks associated with wet hands?
2007-11-11 10:18:49
212.   Bob Timmermann
The little critters are still hanging around in the water on your hand.
2007-11-11 10:21:01
213.   D4P
Yuck! Does blow-drying get rid of the little critters, or do you need to actually wipe them off?
2007-11-11 10:40:27
214.   regfairfield
206 I would be if it weren't four the four and a half month journey of enlightenment my XBOX has been on.
2007-11-11 10:49:27
215.   still bevens
214 Did you get the red rings of death?
2007-11-11 10:54:08
216.   regfairfield
215 Yep. Only lasted about 30-40 hours total. Shipped my console off for repair in early July and haven't seen it since.
2007-11-11 11:15:12
217.   Xeifrank
204. says LSU, ORegon then Kansas, but if Kansas wins out they will likely vault to #1 by seasons end. So then the question would be, who would be #2 Oregon or LSU? LSU probably has a tougher schedule the remainder of the way, so Oregon might end up #3.
vr, Xei
2007-11-11 11:16:19
218.   still bevens
216 My dear lord thats a nightmare. Mine lasted almost a year before I was ring'd. My console was only gone for about a month. The only reason Im going to play Live anytime in the near future is because they bought my silence with a free month of xbox live in exchange for inconveniencing me with defective hardware.

I assume you've called and harassed them about your wayward xbox?

2007-11-11 11:18:04
219.   Dodgers49
LaRoche paces U.S. at World Cup

>> Andy LaRoche hit two two-run homers, powering the U.S. team to a 12-2 win Sunday over Spain at the Baseball World Cup. <<

2007-11-11 11:21:49
220.   regfairfield
218 12 times now. It appears that they've solved the problem now by having someone finally realize they have the wrong address for me (which is bizarre, since they make me tell them my address everytime). Still haven't gotten anything free from it.
2007-11-11 11:35:03
221.   Howard Fox
217 204 if Kansas wins out, they would vault over Oregon, as their final win would be over Oklahoma, while Oregon's would be over Oregon State...not quite the strength of schedule equivalent...

LSU will stay #1 unless they lose the SEC final as everyone seems to love them.

2007-11-11 11:42:22
222.   MC Safety
[208,214]- Have you guys heard anything bad about the new Call of Duty game? From what I hear from everyone it is supposed to be nice but I wanted to gather a few more opinions before deciding if I want Halo 3 or COD. i need a new game, Ive been playing Fifa 08 like an absolute mad man.
2007-11-11 11:50:22
223.   dzzrtRatt
219 If LaRoche manages to survive this offseason to become next season's starting third baseman, he could nicknamed "The Hole." Since that's what every baseball writer in America thinks the Dodgers have at third.
2007-11-11 11:53:16
224.   Bob Timmermann
And in the third quarter:
Miami 3, Buffalo 2

Please, please, let the game end with this score. It would make me so happy.

Although I would like to see a season where the Dolphins went 0-16 while the Patriots went 16-0.

2007-11-11 11:54:03
225.   still bevens
222 Halo 3 is the definition of mediocre. I havent played 1 or 2 so maybe Im missing something. But I dont play much multiplayer and the solo campaign is just boring. Im going to return it soon to take advantage of its resale value.
2007-11-11 11:55:46
226.   regfairfield
222 Really haven't heard a bad thing about it, though at this point I'm just hoping my console comes back before Rock Band comes out.
2007-11-11 12:16:52
227.   Sam DC
Bah Humbug Dolphins. Another reason to scowl at them I guess.
2007-11-11 12:29:23
228.   Bob Timmermann
And the Rams and Dolphins could both get their first wins. The old Buccaneers players are going to be really angry.
2007-11-11 12:34:48
229.   Curtis Lowe
CoD 4 is awesome. The singleplayer unfolds like a top rate action movie and the multiplayer is put together really well with the perk system and ability to upgraqde guns and unlock more guns based on certain challenges you complete.
2007-11-11 12:38:41
230.   Bluebleeder87
Black sunday for me, I stroke out 14 guys, had the apposing team shut down for 7 innings & then my Defense COLLAPSED ON ME! We lost in the LAST INNING WITH 2 OUTS! 2 OUTS!!! our stud shortstop bounced his throw to our 1st baseman I had to face another batter he hits a little bloop shot to right field & we lost. Our shortstop is actually very good, he felt horrible but that's just the way it flows.
2007-11-11 12:45:54
231.   Bluebleeder87
The Griddle says La Roche hit 2, 2 run bombs that is good to hear. I was trying to look for the video over there (IBF) but I guess it hasn't been uploaded yet.
2007-11-11 12:57:06
232.   Bob Timmermann
There isn't video available for every game in the tournament.
2007-11-11 13:03:10
233.   D4P
Rats. I was hoping the Rams would go 0-16.
2007-11-11 13:05:20
234.   Bob Timmermann
Keep hope alive. The Saints have pulled within 8 with 36 seconds left.
2007-11-11 13:05:29
235.   D4P
if Kansas wins out, they would vault over Oregon

I guess that's only fair, given that Kansas would be undefeated. But leave it to Oregon to be #2 in the BCS, win all their remaining games, and then not finish in the top 2.

2007-11-11 13:07:19
236.   Bluebleeder87
There isn't video available for every game in the tournament.


2007-11-11 13:08:40
237.   Bob Timmermann
If only Oregon's next two opponents were any good. And one of them hadn't lost to Notre Dame.

But this year could be one of the most eagerly awaited Civil Wars ever.

2007-11-11 13:11:51
238.   Bob Timmermann
The next US game that you can watch online will be the game on November 14 against Taiwan. It starts at 6 pm in Taipei, which means it will start at 2 am in Los Angeles.
2007-11-11 13:12:29
239.   D4P
But this year could be one of the most eagerly awaited Civil Wars ever

You might have to go all the way back to 1861 to find this kind of anticipation.

2007-11-11 13:16:35
240.   Bob Timmermann
And it will even be televised on ESPN.

ESPN2 to be precise.

I'm sure other game before it will run long and make you miss the first half.

The game against Arizona will be on ESPN. The other game is going to be harder to find.

2007-11-11 13:17:27
241.   D4P
The other game is going to be harder to find

The game against the team that lost to Our Lady...?

2007-11-11 13:19:32
242.   Bob Timmermann
ABC hasn't decided if it wants to pick up that game. If not I assume it would go to FSN.
2007-11-11 13:29:32
243.   D4P
The ABC game here is never Oregon. FSN is probably a better option. Plus, Barry Tompkins always takes me back.
2007-11-11 13:32:54
244.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure there will be some important ACC football game for you to enjoy that day.

The schedule says it would be a late afternoon game on FSN, so that wouldn't be Barry Tompkins. He tends to do the late night games that end around 11:30 pm.

2007-11-11 13:34:16
245.   D4P
There's some important ACC game every week.
2007-11-11 13:40:42
246.   Bob Timmermann
Virginia plays VA Tech on 11/24, so that will be the likely game for D4P.
2007-11-11 13:45:34
247.   D4P
Come to think of it, I'll be in Manhattan on that day anyway, and I won't be watching football.
2007-11-11 13:54:20
248.   old dodger fan
Virginia and VA Tech beat Miami and Florida State this weekend!! I don't think that has ever happened before.
2007-11-11 14:19:03
249.   Gagne55
209 It depends. Soap only kills bacteria meaning it gives no protection against the common cold as well as most types of flu.

221 Not to mention they also play Missouri before then. It's really a shame though. The Pac-10 is superior to the SEC, but LSU would prolly get the spot due to their preseason ranking advantage.

2007-11-11 14:44:04
250.   Bumsrap
LaRoche is the hole now but if he becomes the starting third baseman, doesn't he become the plug.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-11-11 14:48:31
251.   Bumsrap
Any opinions on the Dodgers and Yankees being more likely trade partners now that Torre has switched coasts?
2007-11-11 14:56:12
252.   trainwreck
Do not think it means anything in terms of being more likely to make trades.

Unless the Yankees want to unload Derek Jeter at some point.

2007-11-11 15:04:35
253.   3upn3down

I posted this question over at Screen Jams, but think it might get seen here first.

Does ABC purposefully program Desperate Housewives to end at 9:01pm CT to force people with DVR's not smart enough to crop that overage into making tough decision about either recording DH for their wives from 8-9, or recording something else in the 9-10p slot?

It is a really frustrating practice, and I'd be even more upset if it was to intentionally put me in the predicament.

2007-11-11 15:09:48
254.   3upn3down
Another question for you Jon.

Why in journalism school, do they teach sports writers who are covering the happenings in a game to write the article in reverse order, starting with the outcome, then moving on the the end of the game, then to the middle and beginning.

You see it all the time, but I was noticing it when reading Gary Klein of the LAT times cover the USC v. Cal game in his piece titled, "Washington Helps USC Drive Safely."

I personaly don't mind getting the outcome first, but reading about the 4th and 3rd quarter, final stats for players, then the 2nd and 1st quarter and first half stats in that order doesn't jibe with how I think.

2007-11-11 15:23:16
255.   Bob Timmermann
The articles are written that way so the parts at the end can be dropped more easily as the space available for the story in the paper changes.

Granted with an online story, you don't need to do this, but it's hard for a writer to come up with two completely different drafts.

2007-11-11 15:25:15
256.   Ken Arneson
209 #1. You're not really killing the bacteria with the water, you're rinsing them away. A temperature hot enough to kill the bacteria would probably also burn your hands.

The important key to hand cleanliness is in the soap & water scrubbing (CDC recommends 15-20 seconds) to loosen the soil from your hands. Then you rinse it off.

2007-11-11 15:28:20
257.   3upn3down
255 Interesting. Thanks Bob.
2007-11-11 15:29:52
258.   Ken Arneson
254 That's called the "Inverted Pyramid" style. More here:

and here:

2007-11-11 15:59:55
259.   Daniel Zappala
When it comes to sports reporting, I hate the inverted pyramid style with the passion of a thousand burning suns. If newspapers want to become relevant and want me to read their articles online, they will change this. Put a one-sentence summary in small, bold type below the headline (which they already do), then tell me about the game, in chronological order.
2007-11-11 16:03:12
260.   Ken Noe
248 First Hokie victory over F$U since 1975, when I was a freshman. A good birthday + 1 to be in orange and maroon.
2007-11-11 16:03:30
261.   KG16
Just out of curiosity, any one think that the football gods will have a sense of humor and let Miami get their first win of the season in Week 16 at New England (also, likely New England's first loss)?

And on a baseball note, has there been any report of Schmidt's condition?

2007-11-11 16:16:05
262.   Samuel

I was hoping the football gods would have a sense of humor and let Miami go an 0-16 season so they'd have a winless to go along with their undefeated season.

2007-11-11 16:28:09
263.   D4P
Thanks, soap people. I ask because the water in our sink takes a long time to warm up and it's never warm by the time I'm finished washing.
2007-11-11 16:34:39
264.   Bob Timmermann
I hate peaches.
Daniel hates the inverted pyramid style of writing.

We all have our foibles.

2007-11-11 16:42:09
265.   D4P
Surely you like peaches in smoothie form...
2007-11-11 16:44:47
266.   tjshere
My former girlfriend was taught in nursing school that lots of lather is the big key to clean hands. Apparently lather kind of wicks the germs away from your skin allowing you to rinse the nasty little critters down the drain.
2007-11-11 16:57:03
267.   Bob Timmermann
No, I don't.
2007-11-11 17:02:10
268.   Dodgers49
Dodger Blue Notes takes on A-Rod/Cabrera:

>> To A-Rod or Miggy? That is the question. <<

2007-11-11 17:13:53
269.   D4P
I guess I understand. I hate pineapple and cantaloupe.
2007-11-11 17:14:19
270.   Jon Weisman
Having the first paragraph of the 4+1 game story be about San Diego taking a 4-0 lead would be a disservice.

Or that multi-lateral game from a couple of weeks ago ... should the game story have begun in the first quarter? Or should the story get right into talking about the play and getting reaction and so on, before going back?

Rejecting the inverted pyramid style is that last thing online sites should be doing now. They have an audience that is surfing a ton of things at once, that isn't going to be patient enough to hunt for the key info.

Exceptions to this audience noted.

Meanwhile, Bob is right. Until print media is completely abandoned, you can't expect newspapers to put the most important information at the bottom of a story.

2007-11-11 17:15:31
271.   Marty
Cantaloupe? That tears it. How can anyone hate cantaloupe?

As a matter of fact, I think I"m going to call LAT and order up some.

2007-11-11 17:17:09
272.   Jon Weisman
253 - Networks often have their more popular shows run a minute or so long these days so that they can charge an extra minute of advertising at the rate that show gets.

I don't think they're actively trying to alienate the viewer, but certainly, they're not going to be worried about the consequences of
what you're trying to record in the next hour on another network.

2007-11-11 17:17:39
273.   Jon Weisman
Something tells me the definition of LAT'd is about to change.
2007-11-11 17:21:57
274.   D4P
Cantaloupe is the Juan Pierre of fruits. Or vegetables. Whatever it is.
2007-11-11 17:24:34
275.   Sam DC
Man, I hate when I just comfy and then the clicker falls back behind the couch.

You on that, LAT?

2007-11-11 17:29:01
276.   Bluebleeder87

We're tide for 1st place with them now, playoffs are gonna be interesting, very interesting.

2007-11-11 17:30:10
277.   Bob Timmermann
I don't care for cantaloupe, but I could pineapple until the cows came home.
2007-11-11 17:32:10
278.   Sam DC
Is that sort of like the Jitterbug? Or the Mashed Potato?
2007-11-11 17:32:37
279.   Bluebleeder87

Good to know. Although I'm the kind of guy that washes my hands 2 or 3 times depending on what I just touched.

2007-11-11 17:34:12
280.   Bob Timmermann
I like to turn DT into a game of Mad Libs sometime.
2007-11-11 17:34:29
281.   tjshere
Anyone who doesn't like cantaloupe ought to be impeached.

Which seems like a particularly good way to deal with Bob. ;^)

2007-11-11 17:47:34
282.   D4P
275 beat you to it.
2007-11-11 17:53:15
283.   Sam DC
So when did Devon Hester get traded to San Diego?
2007-11-11 17:59:52
284.   Daniel Zappala
270 Sure, tell me the exciting thing first. Put it in the lead paragraph, set off from the rest of the story in an obvious way. Then tell the rest of the game in chronological order. I'll shamelessly rewrite the AP recap of that game, while also removing the annoying style of creating one-sentence paragraphs:

Heads were shaking in Chavez Ravine -- nobody could believe what they had just seen. The Los Angeles Dodgers hit an amazing four consecutive homers in the bottom of the ninth Monday night to tie their game against the San Diego Padres, the last two coming off Padre closer Trevor Hoffman. Down again by a run in the tenth, Nomar Garciaparra blasted a two-run homer to lift the Dodgers to a stunning 11-10 victory over the Padres. The win vaulted the dodgers back into first place in the NL West.

"That was the greatest game I've ever seen. I've never seen anything like that," Dodgers reliever Brett Tomko said.

The game looked like an easy win for San Diego when they scored four runs in the first off Brad Penny...

2007-11-11 18:00:49
285.   Bob Timmermann
And Oregon is officially #2 in the BCS behind LSU. Kansas is nipping at the Ducks heels.

Except I don't believe Ducks have heels or that Jayhawks have the ability to nip.

UH is #16 and probably rooting hard for Michigan to beat Ohio State. UH (or Boise State which is #18) can get an automatic BCS spot if they are at least #16 and higher than a conference champ. And Michigan probably wouldn't get higher than #16 with a win over OSU.

Tennessee winning the SEC or UConn winning the Big East would also make things interesting.

2007-11-11 18:07:45
286.   Sam DC
Now there's an interception.
2007-11-11 18:16:51
287.   Sam DC
Frankly, that's another pretty compelling interception.
2007-11-11 18:30:00
288.   Bluebleeder87

Personally, I wash my hands with plain soap & dry them about 90%. I've heard if you use antibacterial soap it's actually bad for you, I don't know the details of it but I've heard it's bad.

2007-11-11 18:34:39
289.   Eric Stephen
I like how USC is #13 in all 3 components of the BCS (Harris Poll, USA Today, computer rankings) and yet is #11 overall.
2007-11-11 19:01:23
290.   LAT
For the record, I would prefer to be known as the guy who is victimized by NPUT than the official DT administrative assistant (well it depends what the assistant position pays, Jon?).

BTW, Mother, Jugs and Speed is on TV, maybe one of the worst movies ever but Raquel Welch is seriously good looking.

2007-11-11 19:09:47
291.   LAT
As the father of two daughters I am forced to watch Hannah Montana. I have moved past wondering how someone who, like her father, can't sing a lick could have such success as a singer and have now moved onto why Heather Locklear would take a recurring role on this awful, absurd, ridiculous show.

Answers? Anyone?

2007-11-11 19:20:53
292.   Bob Timmermann
I assume Ms. Locklear's reasons involve checks with a couple of commas on it.
2007-11-11 19:32:35
293.   LAT
TJ Hooker
Melrose Place
Spin City
Tommy Lee
Richie Sambora

She should have enough $$$ to avoid Hannah Montana

2007-11-11 19:36:36
294.   trainwreck
Hannah Montana is big money though.
2007-11-11 19:49:45
295.   KG16
wow, Rivers is apparently trying to give the game away in San Diego. Weird, I turned the game off at 23-0 to go have dinner, now it's 23-21 after the failed 2-point conversion.
2007-11-11 19:55:43
296.   KG16
Business of baseball question: is it really good for teams like Florida to bring up talent and then sell it like they have of the past few years? I can understand teams that are stuck on futility (like the Royals), which is just a sign of bad management. But it would seem like Florida's approach is bad for the game, though I'm not sure I can express the reasoning behind that statement.
2007-11-11 19:57:22
297.   Daniel Zappala
I just know my kids love Hannah Montana too. And I wasn't about to put out $80 for a ticket to her show.
2007-11-11 20:01:24
298.   Bob Timmermann
The Florida Marlins are just a very strange organization. And they play in a really bad stadium that's hard to get to.

And yet they've never lost a postseason series.

At least they develop talent. You could be a Pirates fan and get a bad team with little hope of getting better.

2007-11-11 20:06:14
299.   berkowit28
284 Yes, that's much better.
2007-11-11 20:14:57
300.   Bob Timmermann
I fully support Daniel's quixotic battle, although it will be ultimately futile and I don't agree with him.

But more people need to have quixotic battles. They build character.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-11-11 20:27:10
301.   Daniel Zappala
Bob, we've demonstrated we can get along, despite our disagreements about peaches and the inverted pyramid writing style. We are a shining example of peace and harmony. We ought to visit all the troubled enclaves in the world, demonstrating how to put aside deep-seated differences and just get along.
2007-11-11 20:33:31
302.   KG16
298 - sure, they develop talent, but so do plenty of AA and AAA teams. Shouldn't they be using said talent to, you know, be competitive more than twice a decade?

I get the futility of the Pirates and Royals, as bad management, but the Marlins are entirely different.

2007-11-11 20:39:56
303.   Suffering Bruin
Fake or real?

I'm thinking fake. Apologies if this is ground already covered.

2007-11-11 20:42:41
304.   Bob Timmermann
A talent like Juan Pierre can only be harnessed once a decade.
2007-11-11 20:46:58
305.   LAT
Has to be fake. We would have heard about it at the time.
2007-11-11 20:48:29
306.   trainwreck
A Marlin fan has had more to root for and be happy over in the last 10 years than a Dodger fan has.

Being a Marlin fan is probably pretty painful at times, but at least they have reason for hope.

2007-11-11 20:49:24
307.   Suffering Bruin
305 I thought exactly that. But it's on his wiki page (yes, Martin Prado has a wiki page), and if you google 9/12/07 and Prado, you get... well, you get plenty. There is no doubt that it's Keith Hernandez doing the commentary.

I still think it's fake but I'm less sure than I was.


Yeah, I'm a little short on work right now.

2007-11-11 20:49:38
308.   KG16
304 - true, but think about how many fans the Marlins would draw if they had Penny, Beckett, and Willis at the top of their rotation the last couple of years? Pierre aside, they've dumped a ton of talent the last few years.
2007-11-11 20:53:52
309.   Bob Timmermann
The Marlins wouldn't be drawing marginally more people than they do any other year.

In 2003, the Marlins were 15th in the NL in attendance.

The 1998 fire sale left a pretty sour taste in the mouths of Marlins fans.

2007-11-11 20:55:07
310.   KG16
309 - so, sale and new stadium at the Orange Bowl site might solve the problem?
2007-11-11 20:59:59
311.   Bob Timmermann
A former Miami resident has told me that the neighborhood around the Orange Bowl makes the LA Coliseum neighborhood look like San Marino, CA.
2007-11-11 21:10:32
312.   KG16
311 - huh, I've got family in Little Havana, I've never really had any problems there.
2007-11-11 21:13:10
313.   Vishal
303 i saw that several months ago. i think it's real.
2007-11-11 21:15:58
314.   Jon Weisman
284 - I hate to tell you, but that story just sucks all the excitement out of the game. And you're really going to tell me about the four-run first inning before you tell me who hit four consecutive home runs in the bottom of the ninth?

But as a consolation prize, I do have a re-edited, chronological copy of The Godfather trilogy to offer :)

2007-11-11 21:21:08
315.   das411 who is hosting Postseason Awards Thoughts starting tomorrow?
2007-11-11 21:27:49
316.   Bob Timmermann
Such are the perceptions of the area though.
2007-11-11 21:47:56
317.   silverwidow
Rotoworld prediction:

Andruw Jones to Dodgers (3 yrs/$54 million)

I would love that deal, as I'm sure many here would.

2007-11-11 21:58:53
318.   trainwreck
If we got rid of Pierre then I could live with it. But that is not going to happen.
2007-11-11 22:23:19
319.   Benjamin Miracord
Mattingly: I think I can fix Juan Pierre's swing so that he'll hit 30 home runs next season.

Bowa: You're out of your element, Donnie.

2007-11-11 22:43:14
320.   Dodgers49
Asking price for Cabrera too steep

>> The price is so prohibitive and includes multiple top-tier prospects -- the kind of young players that are hardly ever traded anymore -- that executives believe the Marlins will have to drop their price significantly to deal Cabrera. Because the requests have been jaw-dropping, teams say they don't see anything happening until the winter meetings next month. <<

2007-11-11 22:49:59
321.   ToyCannon
Everytime LAT was mentioned tonight a baby chuckle was born.
2007-11-11 22:51:53
322.   ToyCannon
I love the "The Plug" as the nickname for LaRoche if he does indeed get the chance to live upto his new nickname.
2007-11-11 22:55:14
323.   ToyCannon
ParanoidAndroid - flip me an Email if you want to go to a CLipper game this Wednesday.
molokia at yahoo dot com.

Clippers gave LeBron a tough game. We tied them at 80 but then fell apart. Really missed Cutino in this game but Kamen is starting to make me a believer. His offensive game tonight was extraordinary.

2007-11-11 22:56:36
324.   Bob Timmermann
RIP, Laraine Day

Whom I already assumed was dead.

2007-11-11 23:41:53
325.   bhsportsguy
293 If you have tween daughters, nieces whatever, you will find yourself watching "Hannah Montana (who had a harder concert ticket to buy than the Boss).

So I am watching the show when Larry David appears with 2 girls who I later find out are his 2 daughters. They were there to illustrate how Mr. "Seinfeld" cannot get a table at a "hot" restaurant while Hannah Montana just waltzes in and has one put together like that.

My hunch is he did the show so his daughters could meet Hannah Montana.

2007-11-11 23:43:18
326.   bhsportsguy
326 When Mickey Rooney finally passes away, there will be a number of people who will think that same thing.
2007-11-11 23:52:43
327.   trainwreck

I cant picture Larry David on that show. I now must see that episode.

2007-11-11 23:56:18
328.   bhsportsguy
327 UCLA still wins the next 2 without Collison right?
2007-11-11 23:59:30
329.   trainwreck
It is Luc that I am really worried about. I still think we should be fine though for the next two days. Wish we had full squad though, since these are ESPN games.

How do you think Lavin is going to be received?

2007-11-12 00:05:04
330.   bhsportsguy
329 He's been there already so I think he will be received okay.

I don't expect the students to give him a shout out though.

I'll be there Tuesday so they better win tomorrow night.

2007-11-12 00:15:08
331.   trainwreck
Shipp was mighty impressive on Friday. I was extremely critical of him for most of last season, so I am very happy to see that he seems to have gone back to his ways as a freshman.

Aboya and Lorenzo seem to have really improved their offensive games, but too bad Aboya still plays out of control at times.

2007-11-12 00:38:57
332.   bhsportsguy
331 I always wonder what kind of defensive end Albert could have been, just tell him go get the guy with the ball.
2007-11-12 00:40:44
333.   jasonungar07

oy vey..

2007-11-12 00:51:55
334.   trainwreck
If Albert had been taught how to play football instead of basketball he would be an absolute beast and probably a first round NFL pick.

Which means he would not be playing for UCLA :(
So I am happy he learned how to play basketball.

2007-11-12 00:54:53
335.   trainwreck
Kent is just a bad teammate pure and simple. He just criticizes the young guys instead of trying to offer them some support or guidance.

Just produce next year and retire. I am tired of his act.

2007-11-12 01:05:57
336.   GoBears
330 Has he? I thought I heard him say during the $C-Cal broadcast last night that this would be his first time back in Pauley as a broadcaster. Maybe I misunderstood.
2007-11-12 01:10:37
337.   regfairfield
335 I think Kent will have a job so long has he can stand next to second base and OPS .850.

Is it strange to anyone else that Jeff Kent will be our second baseman for four years now?

2007-11-12 01:16:03
338.   Bob Timmermann
I heard the same.
2007-11-12 01:18:12
339.   trainwreck
I think ignoring Lavin and giving him no response is the best way to go.

It really does fit how he acted as a coach.

2007-11-12 01:19:39
340.   bhsportsguy
336 Well, I could only find stories where he has done a few road games but none at Pauley (though he has been back to Pauley to watch UCLA).

Again, I would not expect a big reaction but I won't be there until Tuesday.

2007-11-12 01:21:32
341.   bhsportsguy
339 C'mon they'll show him, the fans will cheer (although to guarantee that, he should fine away to broadcast with John Wooden sitting next to him.)
2007-11-12 01:24:18
342.   bhsportsguy
338 Not a bad crowd yesterday, for the first time ever, I brought a non-sports book to a game (I bought the Charles Schultz biography before the game). An aside, "Peanuts" was a lot more biographical than you might have thought, though not in a conventional way.

Anyway, the crowd was not as vocal in their displeasure, I think they are just resigned to what is going to happen.

2007-11-12 06:33:53
343.   Izzy
335. Maybe someone should write him and give him support and guidance, instead of just criticizing him in press.
2007-11-12 06:52:22
344.   Eric Stephen
Kent felt like the Lone Ranger down the stretch. He recalled a game in which he had two doubles among four hits and zero RBIs. There also was the Dodgers' final game in San Francisco, when his two solo homers off Matt Cain created a lead before the Giants rallied for a 4-2 victory.

I'm sure there were no games the Dodgers won when Kent had 0 hits or committed an error. Sheesh.

Oh yeah, and that game Kent had 4 hits, 2 doubles, and no RBI? The Dodgers won that game!!!

I guess Gonzo was talking about Kent when he mentioned players worried about stats and not wins.

2007-11-12 06:57:36
345.   Bumsrap
2007-11-12 07:03:37
346.   D4P
Alternative interpretation:

Kent couldn't hit in the clutch, and only hit meaningless doubles and HRs.

2007-11-12 07:06:38
347.   D4P
346cont. pad his own stats, rather than to help the team.

2007-11-12 07:18:50
348.   ToyCannon
Jeff Kent has hit the most home runs for ages
for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Very good bet he'll have the most for 40. If he does he'll be the 1st to be on the list 4 times. Piazza and Sheffield are on the list 3 times.

2007-11-12 07:20:02
349.   Ken Noe
Surprise, Kent blames Grady and the kids again. He's like Eddie Haskell bullying the Beav, "Wait'll Mr. Torre gets here, he'll show you punks." What happens next summer when Eddie wants Beaver or Lumpy chewed out and Mr. Torre doesn't do it? More sulking? Running to the Times? I hated the LADs signing him, and I've rued the day since.
2007-11-12 07:20:14
350.   D4P
Batting ahead of Kent on his 2 double, 4 hit, no RBI game:

Furcal: 0-6
Pierre: 1-6, single
Kemp: 1-6, HR

Sure, veterans Furcal and Pierre went a combined 1-12, but the real problem was Kemp's selfish 1-6 with a HR. Nothing more selfish than a solo HR, which gives you the RBI and doesn't let the guy who hits after you get one.

Batting ahead of Kent on his 2 solo HR game:

Abreu: 0-4
Pierre: 0-4
Kemp: 1-4, single

Once again, Kemp is the schmuck. And never mind that Kent left Kemp on base after his single: Kemp should have singled before one of Kent's HRs. Again, he selfishly didn't want Kent to get an RBI.

And check out Kent's clutch numbers:

None on: .302/.369/.580/.949
Runners On: .301/.381/.422/.803
Scoring Position: .293/.391/.400/.791

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-11-12 07:32:12
351.   Sam in SC
this comment is apropos of nothing at all. I just found the piece interesting. cnnsi has rated the worst 10 free agent contracts of all time.

three of them involve dodgers; two signings (both pitchers, and shouldn't be too hard to figure out) and another pitcher that left, and has now boomeranged. and I think they are all borasians.

2007-11-12 07:35:23
352.   Jon Weisman
Memo to D4P - I haven't watched the TMYLM finale yet.
2007-11-12 07:42:15
353.   Daniel Zappala
314 Jon, I won't hold it against you. :-) I just hate reading about a game in reverse-chronological order. I guess I'll stick to reading the play-by-play and box score online and avoid the newspaper game stories.
2007-11-12 07:44:46
354.   Daniel Zappala
It used to be that if you dumped a player who was going to cost you a lot of money, you didn't get much in return because your trading partner was taking on a lot of money. Or, you could offer to cover part of the contract in return for some better talent. I recognize Cabrera isn't making big money yet, but he certainly will in just a few years. So why do the Marlins think they can get three high-level prospects in return for a soon-to-be-expensive player? Has the trading market changed that much?
2007-11-12 07:47:42
355.   D4P
No worries, I haven't either. But I'm really looking forward to it. People seem to think it's the best episode yet. I've read a few spoilers, but haven't let myself indulge completely.
2007-11-12 07:48:41
356.   DodgerBakers
333 tells me why so many here are clamoring for Kent's trade. He is something of a force offensively (pun intended).
2007-11-12 07:49:12
357.   D4P
Might as well start the asking price really high. You can always come down later. Plus, you never know when some Sabean or Sabean-protege is gonna give you a bunch of great young players for an AJ Pierzynski.
2007-11-12 07:52:30
358.   Daniel Zappala
So Schmidt and Kevin Brown were both signed at age 34 by the Dodgers? I hadn't realized that. Thankfully, Schmidt's contract is only 3 years.
2007-11-12 07:56:46
359.   Gen3Blue
348 I enjoyed that story, but at least there's a good chance he won't lead the team unless he really steps it up. That selfish pair, Loney and probably Kemp, would have hit more than twenty with a full season of at bats. Martins right there and Ethier and a healthy Furc also. If Kent drops a few below 20HR, Young, Abreu, and even Hu would have a chance with enough at bats.

It seems to me, with a bit of luck,Kent could be 3rd-5th instead of leading the team, and this would mean a good D's season.

2007-11-12 07:59:32
360.   JoeyP
354--Even with Cabrera's salary increase from arbitration, he'll still be undervalued.

Miguel Cabrera, on the open market, likely gets 20+ million a year. In arbitration, he's likely only going to get 10 mils or so. I can see the Marlins holding out for 3 premium players.

2007-11-12 08:08:09
361.   Gen3Blue
360 at have price, they should just keep him.
2007-11-12 08:08:49
362.   Bumsrap
Cabrera would make a good first baseman for the Yankees. I hope he goes there soon, and I hope Lowell just as quickly resigns with the BoSox.

That should tighten the Boras muscle.

2007-11-12 08:11:52
363.   Gen3Blue
361 Make that half.
2007-11-12 08:12:44
364.   Bumsrap
363 - Already did
2007-11-12 08:15:05
365.   Gen3Blue
362 I take it you don't use resign to mean abdicate.
2007-11-12 08:15:17
366.   Bumsrap
I'm glad Kent is excited about the Dodgers, now trade him.
2007-11-12 08:18:27
367.   Gen3Blue
362 that was quite a riff we did, but I like your thinking. Sort of turns the rack another click.
2007-11-12 08:19:32
368.   Bumsrap
365 - At least your have was a typo while my resign was somewhere between lazy and stupid. Is re-signs better?
2007-11-12 08:29:03
369.   Gen3Blue
I'm not sure mine was a typo, and your first effort was good enough for anyone to get. I'm in no position to preach style of grammer anyhow.

I love the inherent contradiction in Boras position. If he and A-rod believe Arod will be good for so long, they should consider something like 40mil per for two or three years. I would like that.

2007-11-12 08:30:43
370.   Gen3Blue
369 of was a typo --should be or. I should quit while I'm behind.
2007-11-12 08:32:57
371.   regfairfield
351 I don't really see how a guy who gave us three really good years belongs on that list, over say, Kris Benson, who never had an ERA+ over 100 and missed all of last year.
2007-11-12 08:37:24
372.   ToyCannon
I'm not a Brown fan but I agree, he has no business being on that list. Not only did he give us 3 good years, two of those years were excellent and then he was flipped so it is not like the Dodgers were on the hook during his huge decline years. Shouldn't take much digging to find lousier deals then the Kevin Brown deal.
2007-11-12 08:37:46
373.   ToyCannon
Carlos Perez perhaps?
2007-11-12 08:45:17
374.   GobiasIndustries
What about Andy Ashby's deal? I seem to recall that being an albatross around the neck of the team for a while there too.
2007-11-12 09:14:33
375.   Kevin Lewis

I play Xbox live quite a bit with Team Fortress 2.

I have heard nothing but great things about COD4 and nothing but so so reviews for Halo. I would go with COD4.

2007-11-12 09:19:32
376.   Gen3Blue
It seems that from the early days of free agency to the present, there are Dodger import pitchers that make me want to cry.
I'm hazy on this but I think some of the earliest were named Goltz and maybe Stanhouse? Coming after guys like Sandy, Drysdale and Sutton the contrast was a shock.
2007-11-12 09:21:36
377.   Eric Stephen
374 Yikes! I forgot about Andy Ashby. He made $22.5 million over three years from 2001-2003. He put up a 14-23 record, with a 91 ERA+ in 266.1 total IP.
2007-11-12 09:25:19
378.   silverwidow
Pending trade: Cubs send Jacque Jones to Tigers for Omar Infante
2007-11-12 09:30:31
379.   fanerman
206 375 Right now the only game I have is Halo. I play it on Live mainly because my roommate and various friends are all into it. It's pretty fun when played with people you know (sort of the only way I enjoy games these days). I've heard great things about COD4, though. What are your gamertags?
2007-11-12 09:32:06
380.   regfairfield
378 Detroit's going for it apparently. A platoon of Jones and Thames in left with Maybin waiting in the wings is a very nice situation to have.
2007-11-12 09:34:00
381.   blue22
380 - Good trade for the Cubs too, if they don't include cash. Saves about $10M over the next two years. Infante can be non-tendered.
2007-11-12 09:37:24
382.   regfairfield
Jones only has one year left, but the point still stands. The Cubs needed to clear some space in the outfield. Maybe this means Matt Murton finally gets a chance.
2007-11-12 09:40:44
383.   D4P
Let's hope this deal goes through before Ned jumps in and offers Abreu for Jones.
2007-11-12 09:41:37
384.   Andrew Shimmin
Maybin's already had 49 major league at bats, and still hasn't produced. Dombrowski has a duty to cover his bases.
2007-11-12 09:42:13
385.   therickdaddy
Those of you continually ragging on Kent post after post after post -- consider a few things.

1) He continues to produce.
2) His return carries with it a power bat that we need.
3) The last four years he's been here we've reached the playoffs two times.
4) Why does everyone have to be the "perfect teammate"? I've heard plenty of people talking about how they didn't care how many suspensions or disturbances Milton Bradley had as long as he continued to produce. Jeff Kent actually goes out and does it, and every year people clamor for his release/trade.

I don't understand it. Even for the sabermetrically-inclined, Kent has been in the Top 3 2Bs in the league forever and he's 40!

What are we complaining about again?

2007-11-12 09:42:18
386.   blue22
382 - I keep forgetting next year is 2008. Hardly seems possible.

Yeah, that's assuming they can commit to a Soriano/Pie/Murton OF, and not sign whoever this year's version of Jacque Jones is.

2007-11-12 09:46:10
387.   regfairfield
385 I agree. A lot of next year depends on whether or not Kent can defy the aging curve again.
2007-11-12 09:47:44
388.   blue22
385 - Kent is a first class jerk, hence the ragging. However, I think many on here are ok with him coming back and putting up his standard 120 OPS+ at second base. His defense continues to slip though, so that number becomes less and less impressive on every ball that gets through the right side of the infield.
2007-11-12 09:54:23
389.   therickdaddy
388 - There's no denying his jerkness, but we have other concerns than Kent coming in with Torre in charge. For instance, if the Dodgers are indeed going to sign Jones, I'd be pretty upset seeing Ethier as a 4th OFer in favor of Pierre in LF.

I have the ability to "live" with Pierre, but certainly not in LF.

2007-11-12 09:59:34
390.   Eric Stephen
385 I want to start by saying that I like that Kent is on the team, that his positives far outweigh the negatives.

The reason I pointed out the article was only for the specific section of the article where Kent brought up a game where he produced but had no RBI. The Dodgers won that game.

I'm probably guilty of lumping Gonzo with Kent, but Kent's selfishness in that section was a direct example of going for stats instead of wins that Gonzo mentioned a few times throughout 2007.

In summation, I'm not a Kent fan, but I want him on the team in 2008, and I'll be glad when he's gone.

2007-11-12 09:59:36
391.   gpellamjr
385 I am happy Kent is coming back. But the Dodgers have not made the playoffs twice since he's been here.
2007-11-12 10:00:31
392.   Andrew Shimmin
Did Pinto's CF rankings change any minds on whether moving Pierre would be a good idea? Pinto's model doesn't account for throwing (I don't think, anyway), but still. Pierre was very near the top of the heap. Maybe his CF defense isn't so easily replaced as has been speculated. . .
2007-11-12 10:02:01
393.   ToyCannon
Who you kidding? We've had 385 posts and very very very few were negative about Kent's ability to play baseball. I'm just tired of him opening his mouth. If he had kept his mouth shut during the summer of 2005 we might have a real CF instead of the albatross. This summer his rants were ill timed. If he comes to camp, shuts his mouth and plays baseball I'm all for letting him bat 6th and play the worse defensive 2nd base I've ever seen, outside of the few games that Scott Hairston did a terrible impersonation as a 2nd baseman. His only asset is his strong arm, his range blows and he cheats like crazy when a DP is in order so that he can get to 2nd base which is why single after single can be seen dribbling between 1st and 2nd. But he still hits enough that he can make up for it. At 40 will he continue to hit enough and be healthy enough to deserve his extension? We have no choice but to find out.
2007-11-12 10:02:18
394.   Eric Stephen
And Kent rightfully takes heat because he started the snowflake of perception that became the snowball of reality that the Dodger "kids" were the reason they lost.
2007-11-12 10:03:13
395.   Eric Stephen
391 Clearly 385 was a guarantee of a playoff berth in 2008. :)
2007-11-12 10:08:36
396.   blue22
385/391 - He's one-for-three. He was signed after the '04 team made the playoffs.
2007-11-12 10:10:58
397.   blue22
392 - But then there's this that rates Pierre at a little above average:

2007-11-12 10:12:43
398.   ToyCannon

Actually I am ragging.
2005 - had a great year while wrecking the clubhouse and helped move Depo on while bringing in the Ned Era.

2006 - he had an injury plagued year and the worse year of his career once he started playing fulltime. We still made the playoffs only to have him make the Dodgers look like buffons with the baserunning savy of a rookie instead of a 15 year vet. If Kemp had run into 2 outs at home in a playoff game the stupid rookie story would never end.

2007 - he had a decent year and was hurt again but still managed to pull in enough at bats to vest his contract. Once he vested he opened his big mouth.

So yeah I guess I'm ragging. I could easily live without him. He's 40 years old and plays 2nd base. The odds of him finishing the year healthy are very very slim. Check out the numbers of 40 year 2nd baseman, if you can even find any. Of course since he's really a statue and not a 2nd baseman the comp's don't count.

2007-11-12 10:19:38
399.   MC Safety
385- Your not going to find much sympathy for Jeff Kent around here. I have had enough of Jeff Kent. Having heard some first hand tales of his dousshiness through an ex teammate of his and the whole Matt Kemp vs. The Veterans trashcan fiasco I dont like him. I would not be the least bit disappointed if he got hurt washing his truck again so Hu or Abreu could step in.
2007-11-12 10:23:00
400.   Andrew Shimmin
392- As a point of honor, I should assert what should be implicit that moving Pierre to Bolivia to sell D4P's Ding Dongs is still the best possible use of Pierre. But, assuming he must remain on the team, and must continue to be permitted to play, moving him to LF would aggravate an already awful situation.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-11-12 10:24:38
401.   Bumsrap
Usually when I suggest trading somebody it is because I would rather watch someone else play in their spot. Nomar and Piere for instance vs. Loney and Kemp. I lost interest in Butler because of his actions and words during the strike. Kent annoys me and I would rather watch Ian Kinsler play second for the Dodgers than Kent or Abreu.
2007-11-12 10:25:24
402.   MC Safety
375,379- Well so much for choosing between COD and Halo 3. My girl bought me Halo 3 un announced yesterday, so FIFA 08 is officially retired until I can find some competition. I should be on within the week Fanerman and will shoot you my gamertag if you wanna play some H3. How is the new hammer eapon thingy online ? Is it worse than the sword for H2?
2007-11-12 10:27:28
403.   Bumsrap
Juan, I'll take a dozen Ding Dongs.
2007-11-12 10:31:43
404.   Andrew Shimmin
403- Unless you're in Bolivia, you'd be better off directing that order to LAT. Pierre's going to be wearing one of those GPS trackers that automatically explode if he leaves the boundaries of Bolivia. Ding Dong salesmen don't have a union.
2007-11-12 10:32:52
405.   Jon Weisman
That's the answer. Juan Pierre should return the missing Blackberry to the lawyer.
2007-11-12 10:34:56
406.   D4P
Meep meep!
2007-11-12 10:39:11
407.   silverwidow
The Jacque-Omar deal is official.
2007-11-12 10:39:50
408.   fanerman
402 I haven't used it too much, actually. I haven't seen it in the multiplayer yet. Granted, I've only been playing for about a week.
2007-11-12 10:40:35
409.   Bob Timmermann
I watched five episodes of "The Wire" last night, so I think an "Omar deal" is a much different thing.
2007-11-12 10:41:00
410.   silverwidow
Gurnick has a new mailbag up. Nothing too stupid this week, although his speculation that the Dodgers won't reward Martin with a big contract is pretty lame.
2007-11-12 10:59:54
411.   Humma Kavula
410 While I agree that the question and answer are lame -- why choose to answer that question in the mailbag? -- isn't Gurnick right? Isn't it unlikely that the Dodgers will give Martin a contract this offseason? Isn't it more likely and maybe even a better plan to wait until after '08 -- or even '09 -- to buy out arbitration and a few years of free agency?

Maybe not. Maybe the longer you wait, the less likely it is that Martin agrees to such a deal. Others know more than I do about this.

2007-11-12 11:01:38
412.   Eric Stephen
Check out the numbers of 40 year 2nd baseman, if you can even find any

You said it. There have only been 6 players 40 or older that have played a combined 9 seasons with at least 50 games at 2B since 1901.

The best OPS+ of that group is Eddie Collins' 124 in 1927.

2007-11-12 11:05:43
413.   Bob Timmermann
ROY winners posted on the Griddle.
2007-11-12 11:07:47
414.   Eric Stephen
411 Martin is going to be arbitration eligible after 2008, as a "Super Two". Ideally, he never sees the inside of an arbitration hearing room, which gives them about a year to get the extension done.

With the new TV deal just into effect, the contracts haven't accelerated into ludicrous mode yet (but they probably will within the next month) so it would probably be good for the Dodgers to sign Martin ASAP.

2007-11-12 11:10:38
415.   D4P
ROY winners posted on the Griddle

Congratulations to James Loney for his single third place vote.

2007-11-12 11:13:26
416.   fanerman
415 Hot diggity.
2007-11-12 11:15:43
417.   Kevin Lewis

I play under "Lyle Hutz"

2007-11-12 11:21:05
418.   Eric Stephen
Also, regarding Martin, his two contract comps are Brian McCann and Victor Martinez.

McCann signed his contract extension with 1 year, 117 days of service time, and it buys out one year of FA plus an option year

Martinez signed his contract extension with 1 year, 114 days of service time, and the club has an option year on his first FA year.

Russell Martin has 1 year, 150 days of service time.

Joe Mauer didn't sign his extension until he had 3 years of service, and his bought out his first year of FA, but was more expensive than the other two (but Mauer is also better than them).

2007-11-12 11:21:33
419.   regfairfield
385 There's definately a crowd on here that wants to replace Kent with Abreu. It might not be big, but it's enough for me to notice.
2007-11-12 11:23:53
420.   regfairfield
418 I think he'll get more than the McCann deal since he'd be signed in his third full year instead of his second, plus inflation and whatnot.

It would be horrible lapse of judgement if Russ was on a one year contract in 2009.

2007-11-12 11:26:20
421.   Humma Kavula
418 420 Thanks. That's much more useful information.

I have revised my opinion accordingly.

2007-11-12 11:30:36
422.   Eric Stephen
420 The best part is that the Dodgers get almost an extra full year out of Martin before he hits free agency. He was recalled on May 5, 2006, and still managed to catch 117 games, yet only accrue 150 days of service time, not a full season.

He'll be under team control in 2008, then have 4 years of arbitration (similar to Dontrelle Willis, and for that matter, Andre Ethier). For that reason alone (the extra arb year vs. team control), the contract will be more then Brian McCann.

I really hope he doesn't go to arbitration next offseason. I suspect he will be renewed in February, then they will work on a new deal in March and hopefully get it done soon thereafter.

2007-11-12 11:31:53
423.   Sam DC
So the Bruins are on national tv at 11 PM eastern tonight?

Against Youngstown State?

My mom grew up real near Youngstown. She describes it as, well, "crooked, in a general sort of way."

2007-11-12 11:34:51
424.   fanerman
417 402 My gamertag is "WETPETS"w based on the cult hit commercial.

(safe for work I suppose, but it's youtube of course).

2007-11-12 11:35:29
425.   Bob Timmermann
In keeping with my pledge, I can neither confirm nor deny that information.
2007-11-12 11:37:26
426.   fanerman
424 That "w" after "WETPETS" should be a comma.
2007-11-12 11:39:59
427.   Samuel

The one commercial that I actually enjoyed while I was in Berkeley. I guess I spent too much time watching tv and not studying. Oops.

2007-11-12 11:40:07
428.   MollyKnight
Congratulations to Dustin Pedroia for winning the AL Rookie of the Year award. He's a heck of a nice guy. I love to see his success.
2007-11-12 11:44:57
429.   underdog
I can't believe Loney only got one measly 3rd place vote for ROY, but then again it was a pretty strong year and it's hard to argue against Braun or Tulo. I guess I'm biased, but I'd have thought Loney would get a bit more support and Hunter Spence a bit less, but what do I know.
2007-11-12 11:46:26
430.   underdog
More thoughts on the Infante-Jones swap on Cub Town, btw.

He's scratching his head about it. So am I, frankly. Another light hitting middle infielder?

2007-11-12 11:49:16
431.   dzzrtRatt
415 It's Pavlovian for me. Whenever I hear the words "Rookie of the Year," I think of Fred Claire on some sports talk show, bragging about all the ROY awards the Dodgers won consecutively in the 90s and I get irritated all over again. He talked as if the Dodgers' actual record during each of those seasons didn't matter because "we" won ROY "an unprecedented five years in a row." (Like Ned, Claire was a PR man initially.) Somehow that was supposed to make up for Darryl Strawberry, John Wetteland & Belcher for Eric Davis, Pedro for Delino.

It will be a good omen if none of our good young prospects ever win ROY.

2007-11-12 11:51:48
432.   underdog
431 {Conjuring up memories of Todd Hollandsworth} Agreed.
2007-11-12 11:55:24
433.   regfairfield
430 I think the purpose was to get rid of Jacque Jones. Who they got in return was largely irrelevant. He's no worse than Theroit or Cedeno at least.
2007-11-12 11:56:56
434.   D4P
I think the purpose was to get rid of Jacque Jones. Who they got in return was largely irrelevant

See also: Pierre, Juan.

2007-11-12 11:57:28
435.   Kevin Lewis
I will add your name today.

That commercial is awesome. Is she trying to do the robot with the snake?

Did anyone watch those two fishermen in San Luis Obispo? The show was mimicking the style of Wayne's World. I love public tv.

2007-11-12 11:59:45
436.   Jon Weisman
The DT numerical roster has been updated. The lowest number not taken is 54.
2007-11-12 12:02:40
437.   underdog
433 - Indeed. Good point. Still, you should tell Derek that.

And I still think he could have at least filled a need a bit more than at that crowded position. But yes, at least they rid themselves of a cumbersome contract and cleared the way (presumably) for Felix Pie.

2007-11-12 12:03:28
438.   underdog
437 - "he" = they, the Cubs


Off subject, but, wow, Josh Brolin sure is busy this year, isn't he?

2007-11-12 12:04:08
439.   Eric Stephen
436 Damn, my numbers keep getting picked! Jon, can I please have 76?


2007-11-12 12:07:57
440.   LAT
Ding Dongs. I love Ding Dongs. I'm brining DinG Dongs to the next DT Outing. Then we can wad the tin foil up and wing them at each other. (Hey, it was fun in 6th grade!)

P.S. Blackberry guy called this morning and is sending a messenger to pick it up. Alas, we will have to find another purpose for JP.

2007-11-12 12:09:43
441.   D4P
Then we can wad the tin foil up and wing them at each other

Or warm them up in the microwave.

Two times.

2007-11-12 12:13:32
442.   Kevin Lewis

A messenger? I am having trouble relating to this man and his income bracket.

2007-11-12 12:14:45
443.   still bevens
438 He will always be Brand in the Goonies to me, no matter what else he does with his career.

442 I guarantee you he is charging it to his firm.

2007-11-12 12:16:44
444.   Bob Timmermann
The bike messengers of Downtown are an interesting subculture.

They are not nearly as glamorous as Kevin Bacon was in "Quicksilver."

2007-11-12 12:17:26
445.   D4P
They are not nearly as glamorous as Kevin Bacon was in "Quicksilver."

How do they compare to Puck in "The Real World"?

2007-11-12 12:18:59
446.   robohobo
435 This is the last place I thought I'd be reminded about Fishmasters. I haven't thought about that show is years.
2007-11-12 12:20:42
447.   Bob Timmermann
They make Puck seem normal.
2007-11-12 12:31:14
448.   wireroom
447 exactly what is the purpose of those guys? I work downtown and all it ever seems like they are just sitting around smoking cigs.
2007-11-12 12:34:30
449.   Bob Timmermann
Hire one sometime to take a piece of paper from your office to LAT's.
2007-11-12 12:42:41
450.   wireroom
Is that what you do? Give them a 5 and they will ride their bike somewhere and drop off paperwork?
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-11-12 12:43:26
451.   still bevens
448 Bobs pretty much right. We use messengers to send over things to other lawyers like service copies of filings, document productions etc if it cant be mailed. And since law firms are always rush, rush mailing is rarely an option. Theres some other messengers who know the ins and outs of the courthouse and we use them to file documents and whatnot. But yeah, it does seem like their primary M.O. is to congregate and smoke cigarettes.
2007-11-12 12:44:18
452.   still bevens
I should qualify my previous post by noting that I am not a lawyer.
2007-11-12 12:44:51
453.   Wilbert Robinson
[448} I used to be a messenger in New York City in fact. It is an interesting job the pay can be terrible but it sort of becomes more of a sport and a lifestyle choice after a while. I had to give it up because my knees went bad so now I have a desk job where I make twice as much money to do much less work but I still really miss it sometimes.
2007-11-12 12:45:14
454.   Bob Timmermann
Pretty much. Sometimes they come to the library and check out books for a law firm on the company library card. Because guys like LAT and wireroom are too important to come to the library themselves.

LAT hires a messenger and bills a client so he can get a bunch of John Grisham and Scott Turow novels to find out what it is REALLY like to be a lawyer.

2007-11-12 12:46:50
455.   Marty
They seem to like to hang out at a spot on Hope and 4th by the Bonaventure.
2007-11-12 12:48:29
456.   Bob Timmermann
During the World Cup, you can find a lot of bicycle messengers at the Carl's Jr. on 5th Street watching matches.
2007-11-12 12:49:05
457.   D4P
Are there any authors who specialize in the adventures and exploits of university professors...?
2007-11-12 12:50:44
458.   wireroom
454 I am not too important to go to the library myself! I go there all the time on my lunch break. I actually kind of envy those guys, just chilling outside on their bikes. Sometimes I see them timing each other and things like that. I am curious to know how much they make a day?
2007-11-12 12:51:22
459.   fanerman
457 There are probably books starring Indiana Jones out there.
2007-11-12 12:56:43
460.   D4P
I tend to forget that Indy was a prof, though the girl with the "I ♥ U" on her eyelids was a memorable scene.
2007-11-12 12:57:02
461.   therickdaddy
398 - I can tell you don't like him. But I remember plenty of folks saying that after his injury season he wouldn't produce last year, and he proved everyone wrong. He did this with no protection for most of the year, as well.

It's obvious that he's a one-of-a-kind player and I have no doubt he will have a comparable season at 40.

I really sound like a Kent apologist at this point, but I'll also point out that as far as anything he's ever said, stats don't matter to him. And why would they? He claims he doesn't even like baseball. So I really think that's way far-fetched. He was just bringing up an example where he thought he was trying and others had given up.

I remember a similar accusation of Kent caring about his stats when he chastised Bradley for stopping at 3B instead of scoring. I call BS on that. Kent just wants to win games.

I think Jeff Kent is on such a different playing field mentally (and heck, physically) than a lot of players, we try to compare him to others and it's just not plausible. He's really his own guy.

2007-11-12 12:59:07
462.   Andrew Shimmin
457- Most (counting off the top of my head, but I think I'm right) of Saul Bellow's protagonists were academics. Start with Herzog, the best book written in the 20th century.
2007-11-12 13:04:45
463.   KG16
454 - lawyers still use books for research? Really? Wow. Perhaps it's a generational thing, I did a little "book research" in law school in my legal research classes, but even the profs recognized that the reality was we'd be doing all our legal research online.
2007-11-12 13:06:40
464.   Jon Weisman
461 - The point is that stats should matter to Kent more than they apparently do. If he wants to win, then he needs to accept good players with their attitude problems, just like we accept him with his attitude problems of a different sort.

He's made his point that the kids don't "get it." Enough already. Now he needs to show me that he "gets it."

2007-11-12 13:07:14
465.   Andrew Shimmin
Illustrated internet forum sociology:

This is my favorite one:

2007-11-12 13:07:21
466.   Jon Weisman
464 - Which is not to say I'm looking to get rid of Kent - just that this veterans vs. kids thing needs to be put behind us.
2007-11-12 13:08:06
467.   regfairfield
Those books behind him aren't just for show. They're full of useful legal tidbits.
2007-11-12 13:08:39
468.   D4P
Which one am I...?
2007-11-12 13:09:20
469.   Marty
462 That shouldn't elicit any response
2007-11-12 13:10:47
470.   therickdaddy
464 - Well Jon, don't hold on to a Jeff Kent attitude switch next season. One thing that you CAN count on though is that Kent won't be looked at to do anything on the team next year but play. Torre will provide the professionalism and leadership needed, IMO.
2007-11-12 13:12:56
471.   Andrew Shimmin
468- I can't say, or I'd be a Dualist. But, hypothetically, it's possible you're a Lamer.
2007-11-12 13:13:55
472.   Andrew Shimmin
Duelist. ops, I hittd the A key.
2007-11-12 13:15:18
473.   JoeyP
433--A more perplexing question is why the Detroit Tigers need players like Jacque Jones and Sean Casey?
2007-11-12 13:17:23
474.   Jon Weisman
470 - I won't expect an attitude switch. On the other hand, he was able to keep his mouth shut for five months in 2007, so I can root for that.
2007-11-12 13:18:44
475.   regfairfield
473 Jones hits righties pretty well (last year not withstanding) and plays good D. He's not a bad guy to have in a platoon, especially when you have Marcus Thames.
2007-11-12 13:22:15
476.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume that Sean Casey won't be staying around Detroit now. Carlos Guillen will be taking over first base. That leaves Casey as a very well-paid cheerleader.
2007-11-12 13:26:33
477.   JoeyP
Jacque Jones only hit 5 homers in 483ABs last year with the Cubs.

That would scare me if I was the Tigers. If he cant hit for any power in Wrigley, he sure wont in Detroit.

He does have a career .825 OPS vs RHP, but the loss of power would really be a concern, especially for a player that doesnt walk much.

2007-11-12 13:30:07
478.   still bevens
463 We had a client who refused to pay for our westlaw/lexis charges because we could have theoretically looked everything up in books in our law library.
2007-11-12 13:34:58
479.   Howard Fox
478 but then you charged them for research time?
2007-11-12 13:38:20
480.   therickdaddy
476 - Casey=Nomar? :)
2007-11-12 13:38:28
481.   LAT
A lot of law firms, including mine, have in house messengers. We only use outside services when our in house guys are booked up.

As for Blackberry guy, you can be sure he charged the cost of picking up the Blackberry to his Firm. Also, I don't think he is an attorney (that is a good thing for him) he is not listed on the firm website.

2007-11-12 13:40:10
482.   old dodger fan
BR projects Loney to have had 24 HR's this year in 162 games compared to the 96 he played in. With an OPS of .919 and OPS+ of 131 he gets way more than one 3rd place vote if he plays all year.
2007-11-12 13:41:18
483.   LAT
Bob, I go to the library once in a while but the last time I went I spent the enite afternoon there just going from one topic to another. It is easy to do if you are looking to kill time. Unfortunatly, as most lawyers will tell you, those lost billable hours have to be made up somewhere along the line.
2007-11-12 13:42:48
484.   regfairfield
477 I have a feeling that they'll spend the first couple months seeing if he has anything left, then hand the job to Thames or Maybin if he fails. There's not much risk involved since they didn't give anything up to get him.
2007-11-12 13:51:43
485.   LAT
Some firms are giving up having a library. Compared to online research, the traditional library is expensive to maintain and takes up a lot of space (and that translates into more square footage to pay rent on). Online is faster and more efficent.

Having said that, Lexis and Westlaw are like crack dealers. During law school they hang around and give you free online access all the while eroding your traditional research skills. Once you get a job in a firm, wham, they turn off your free acces number and start charging you through the nose. Eventaully your strung out on law review articles and appelate briefs that can only be accessed on line. Next thing you know you don't even know how to Sheperdize any more and you wonder how it came to this. All because you took a little hit off the on-line research pipe.

2007-11-12 13:53:48
486.   silverwidow
I just noticed that the 40-man roster at lists 32 controlled players and Mark Sweeney.

Maybe he was re-signed and it'll be announced soon?

2007-11-12 13:57:04
487.   Jon Weisman
Now that LAT has posted ... NPUT.
2007-11-12 13:58:55
488.   Eric Stephen
486 Maybe it's just a mistake by whomever inputs the roster at Up until yesterday, David Wells and Luis Gonzalez were also listed on the 40-man, among others, even though they already declared free agency.

That said, I wouldn't mind Sweeney coming back. He'll probably sign in the $800k - $1m range.

2007-11-12 14:02:12
489.   regfairfield
486 Seanez, Wells and Gonzalez were still on there a couple hours ago.
2007-11-12 14:04:20
490.   Ken Noe
Rob/scareduck at 6-4-2 has linked some fascinating defensive metrics for centerfielders and second basemen. Germane to today's Kent discussion is a very negative appraisal of his defensive abilities and the runs cost. In contrast, JP's not so bad, who knew. Numbers are fun!
2007-11-12 15:46:28
491.   McDodger
Grew up in Vero Beach, and it hurts to watch the Dodgers go... especially with the Devil Rays taking their place as the Single A Advanced team. I'm going to go to a game this spring, one last time.

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