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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodger Uniforms Commemorating the Team's Performance Since 1989 I Don't Want To See
2007-11-13 07:14
by Jon Weisman


Comments (402)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-13 07:21:53
1.   Disabled List
This made me LOL.

(If I could display colors, the "O" would be highlighted.)

2007-11-13 07:23:42
2.   D4P
How about:


2007-11-13 07:32:47
3.   Paul Scott
I generally dislike all "commemorative" uniforms. Hopefully they are only for one day. BTW, I don't see any mention of special uniforms on the Dodger home page. Where are you getting this (or is it just a reasonable guess given the anniversary year)?

D4P - an half-assed attempt to answer your Posada question is LAT'ed.

2007-11-13 07:34:25
4.   D4P
D4P - an half-assed attempt to answer your Posada question is LAT'ed

I just saw it and responded.

2007-11-13 07:37:45
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - It's a joke based on this:

2007-11-13 08:11:56
6.   GobiasIndustries
I keep hearing that the Dodgers are keeping an eye on Mike Lowell and his situation and that there is interest in him if Arod can't be signed or we don't make a trade for Miggy.
If we don't sign Arod, I don't want to sacrifice what the Marlins current asking price is for Miggy. So why not just sign our "big bat" at CF and let LaRoche have a crack as the starting 3B?
Mike Lowell had a career year mainly because he was hitting behind ManRam and Ortiz every night. Just like Kent in 2000, how can you not have a good year when you hit behind one or two of the elite hitters in the game?
I just don't see the sense in going after, or even faining interest in Lowell at all. Based on recent FA acquisitions by Bernie Lomax though, I am a little worried that there is some truth to these whisperings.
2007-11-13 08:12:34
7.   Paul Scott
Heh. Good thing there is no "L" in "Dodgers".
2007-11-13 08:14:19
8.   standuptriple
Keeping up with Gigantes?
2007-11-13 08:15:51
9.   Paul Scott
No. There is some reason for career year. It very well may be all luck. But it had nothing to do with hitting behind anyone. Protection has repeatedly been proven to be a myth.
2007-11-13 08:16:26
10.   ToyCannon
Plenty of hitters have hitten behind the best in baseball and did not have good seasons.
Lowell had a great season because of Fenway Park not because of ManRam and Ortiz.
2007-11-13 08:16:50
11.   ToyCannon
Or what he said.
2007-11-13 08:18:01
12.   D4P
Good thing there is no "L" in "Dodgers"

But it's hard to spell "The Angels" in Spanish without one...or two...

2007-11-13 08:18:09
13.   Vishal
perhaps the UCLA athletic department took lawler's law to heart... first team to a hundred wins.
2007-11-13 08:19:54
14.   Paul Scott
12 Good point. There is also the LA on our hats. Bad things could be brewing (well, in addition to all the bad things no doubt brewing in Ned's cauldron).
2007-11-13 08:30:08
15.   GobiasIndustries
How can protection be proven to be a myth? That makes no sense at all.
You take a fair to good major league hitter, insert him behind one (or in Lowell's case) two FANTASTIC hitters and then tell me that in scenarios where a pitcher can really get burned by pitching to the elite guy(s) that he won't opt to pitch around that guy(s) to get to the lesser hitter in hopes of achieving his desired result. How does that NOT benefit someone like Lowell? How does he NOT get better pitches to hit? Lowell is exactly what I described, a decent to good major league hitter. He has been most of his career, but when you put a guy like that in a role where he can thrive and he does thrive, it creates a false sense of greatness that can lead an owner/GM to let their judgement be clouded by recent performances thus handing them a ridiculous contract that should never have been given out in the first place.
2007-11-13 08:34:20
16.   D4P
How can protection be proven to be a myth?

You could start by examining the correlation between every hitter's performance (however you define that) with the performance of players who hit behind them. If there's no significant correlation, one would be tempted to conclude that "protection effects" don't exist, on average.

2007-11-13 08:34:51
17.   hernari

So you're saying if a hitter was placed in front of 2001 Bonds* in a lineup that same hitter would get the same pitches hitting in front of the pitcher?

2007-11-13 08:37:14
18.   D4P
I'm pretty sure someone (likely Paul Scott) told me once that protection effects don't exist unless the protector is someone like Barry Bonds.
2007-11-13 08:39:48
19.   Paul Scott
15 Yeah. Well whatever you may think of your theory, it fails to produce results. There are several excellent studies on the subject. If you pay for BP you can get a couple there. BTF has one in it's archives as does SABR. I'll get you think links if you try and can't find them.
2007-11-13 08:40:07
20.   Sam DC
So is protection supposed to mean hitting in front of someone great so the pitcher doesn't want to walk you (17 ) or behind someone great so you have more chances with runners on base (15 )?
2007-11-13 08:42:10
21.   Paul Scott
17 18 Yeah, in one of the multiple studies on protection, there was a measurable "protection" effect when following Barry bonds (well, 2001-2004 Barry Bonds). So at the greatest of extremes protection provides a small, but measurable, effect.
2007-11-13 08:44:04
22.   GobiasIndustries
You could start by examining the correlation between every hitter's performance (however you define that) with the performance of players who hit behind them.

I should clarify. It is still up to the hitter to make contact and put the ball in play. He has a better opportunity than say the #8 batter to see better pitches when you have stellar talent hitting in front of him. How is that not protection of some kind?

My guess is that "protection" will have a wide range of definitions from people so there is no point arguing my point. An interesting thought though..

2007-11-13 08:45:47
23.   ToyCannon
FYI-Mike Lowell batted in the 6th hole behind JD Drew much more then he batted in the 5 hole. However when he did bat in the 5 hole his OPS was 1.215 but in only 67 at bats as compared to mid 800 from the 6 hole.
JD also did much better in the 5 hole then the 6 hole.
2007-11-13 08:46:40
24.   Paul Scott
22 no, it is not a matter of definition. It just does not exist (again, noting the exception of a few of Bonds' years). You are talking about it in theory. Your words do "make sense." The problem is tons of data indicates that the theory does not play out.
2007-11-13 08:47:17
25.   dzzrtRatt
In the PE this morning, an article in which a "baseball economist" says A-Rod at $30 mil for 7 years would likely represent a net gain for the Dodgers, assuming he is surrounded by young talent from a productive farm system. The same applies to the Angels, but because they have already been successful recently, it's less significant. At the back end of the contract, when his skills have declined, he will still pay off assuming he is approaching a number of personal milestones, i.e. 700 homers, 3,000 hits.

He makes one assumption, however, that makes you wonder about how much homework this guy did:

"I think one of the real wild cards is Alex's Hispanic heritage, and I think that plays hugely into his value to both the Angels and Dodgers," Gennaro said. "The reality is if the Dodgers or Angels bring in A-Rod, I think it really starts to set them apart with the huge Latino community in Southern California.

Does he think A-Rod's heritage is Mexican, or does he think a lot of Dominicans live in LA and have been waiting for a Dominican player to join the Dodgers?

2007-11-13 08:47:52
26.   GobiasIndustries
Both. It can work either way.
2007-11-13 08:48:49
27.   Paul Scott
25 Most likely he doesn't recognize the difference.
2007-11-13 08:49:30
28.   Sam DC
Holy cow -- another DT reader lurking in the MSM.

2007-11-13 08:52:14
29.   D4P
Ranit Mishori is a big D4P fan.
2007-11-13 08:52:22
30.   KG16
16 - that's the wrong analysis. You need to compare how the player hitting behind/in front of the elite hitter fairs when hitting in those situations and when he is not (moved to a different spot in the line up, elite hitter getting day off).

Personally, though, I don't really care what the statistics say. It is a matter of strategy, and as Gobias says in 22 , it is still up to the hitter to perform. There is a difference between being put in a position to succeed and actually succeeding.

2007-11-13 08:53:01
31.   GobiasIndustries
The problem is tons of data indicates that the theory does not play out.

According to ToyCannon's post 23 , there is data to support my case.

I think that you are saying in most cases protection is a myth. I would tend to agree with that, but I won't say it doesn't exist at all. It clearly does in some cases.

2007-11-13 08:53:52
32.   LAT
I am hoping the Lowell talk is disinformation. Even Ned knows enough to talk up Lowell so as to not appear too hot for ARod/Cabrera. Doesn't he?
2007-11-13 08:54:29
33.   Jon Weisman
I think there's a potentially false assumption that a hitter who doesn't get "good pitches to hit" will make outs at a greater rate. Quite possibly, that hitter, unless he is Vlad Guerrero, is taking those pitches as balls. And/or, hitters still make outs on good pitches and still get hits on bad pitches.

It's not that having Ortiz behind you might not give you more fastballs. It's that baseball is still a mysterious game. Getting a fastball doesn't guarantee you a hit.

Beyond that, even with Ortiz behind you, it doesn't guarantee pitchers will throw fastballs one after another to you. Pitchers will still pitch.

I haven't done the studies - I only just read them. But even in theory, I just don't think it's as cut and dry as you think it is, Gobias. Even with a good hitter behind you, hitting is still hard. The difficulty of it could easily outweigh the benefits of having a good hitter behind you.

2007-11-13 08:56:48
34.   Paul Scott
31 If you want to believe 67 ABs is data that can support any case, well I think we would end up talking past each other most of the time any way.

Like I said before, there are plenty of studies out there that pretty clearly demonstrate that protection effects do not exist (or more properly stated are so small that they make no difference). If you read some of those and have disagreements or questions, I'll be happy to do what I can.

2007-11-13 08:58:23
35.   Andrew Shimmin
Remembering Sam's story about shelf installation, I was very worried when I read this. But apparently (astoundingly) alcohol wasn't involved. Anybody want to claim credit for this one?

2007-11-13 08:59:48
36.   KG16
35 - that's got to be a Darwin Award Honorable Mention
2007-11-13 09:02:38
37.   dzzrtRatt
Re: "Protection."

I don't have a dog in this fight either way. Intuitively, I agree it's overrated. However, it seems curious to me to study this issue as an "effect," i.e. something that is measurable as a statistical phenomenon. It is the pitcher in each situation who decides whether Hitter X is going to see better pitches hitting behind Hitter Y. It doesn't just happen.

A statistical study would, I assume, tend to look at all games in the same way when, in fact, there would be significant variances depending on:

--Who the pitcher is, whether he has better luck with certain batters or certain types of batters, whether he has the skill to control the kinds of pitches a hitter sees
-- The game situation. Does the pitching team have a lead or is it behind? Does the game matter in the standings?

So, while Lowell might see no different pitches in some large percentage of his at-bats, perhaps in "crucial situations," i.e. late innings, close game, the pitchers pitch differently.

Just a non-professional thought.

2007-11-13 09:02:56
38.   GobiasIndustries
Like I stated before, it is still up to the batter to make contact and succeed. He is just put in a better position to succeed when he hits in front of or behind an elite hitter rather than hitting behind an average to below average guy in the 7 or 8 hole. That's why a guy like Lowell, or even Drew for that matter, is an ideal fit for that Boston line up. Both good hitters but neither can carry the whole offense with them being the focal point. We saw that with Drew first hand.
2007-11-13 09:06:03
39.   ToyCannon
I wasn't trying to support your case just showing that Lowell did have success in the 5 hole in limited at bats. Since he had an OPS difference of over 200 points based on home/road splits in over 250 at bats that is still the reason for his above average year, not because ManRam and Ortiz were in the lineup.
2007-11-13 09:07:08
40.   ToyCannon
Is Jeff Kent going to come back? It is now Nov 13th and Free Agency has started, you would think Ned would want an answer ASAP.
Why would he retire:
1. He is still young enough that he could now enjoy bull riding, motorcycle racing, stringing barb wire and all those things that cowboys love to do but have been prohibited by their contract.
2. He doesn't enjoy playing the game of baseball
3. He doesn't like the Dodger youth movement
4. He doesn't like failure and he will have more failure going forward then he's accustomed to
5. Hates travel
6. Has run out of motorcycle magazines to read in the clubhouse
7. Doesn't like the Dodger youth movement
8. Someone keeps moving the trash can in the clubhouse
9. With respect to Jay Jaffe he already has HOF numbers given his position, since the people who vote aren't going to be detracting his defensive numbers like Jay does.
10. Hates Los Angeles

Why he wouldn't retire:
1. At least 9 million reasons
2. Wants to play for Joe Torre
3. Wants to see if he can break the record for watching ground balls go between him and the 1st baseman or between him and 2nd base in a season.
4. Wants to teach the kids how to run the bases
5. Misses TJ Simers
6. Still dreams of a World Championship

2007-11-13 09:07:27
41.   MC Safety
Jon, should we put our shirt orders over in the previous thread or post them here? Thanks.

I dont get the Lowell back up plan thing. I would much rather see Andy take over third. Please, enough of the Boston back scratching Frank sheesh.

2007-11-13 09:07:35
42.   SG6
Did Lowell have a career year?

2002: 116
2003: 128
2004: 127
2005: 77
2006: 104 (switching leagues)
2007: 124

Was 2007 the aberration or was it 2005? Didn't he have some injury in 2005?

2007-11-13 09:10:20
43.   regfairfield
42 His BABIP was absurdly low and his power took a huge hit. Moving from Florida to Boston probably helped that last part out a lot.
2007-11-13 09:11:24
44.   MC Safety
40- Great list Toycannon.
2007-11-13 09:13:49
45.   das411
42 - There's one other piece of info that correlates with that and helps put things into better perspective, on whether Lowell had a career year in 07 or not:

2002: Marlins
2003: Marlins
2004: Marlins
2005: Marlins
2006: RED SOX
2007: RED SOX

2007-11-13 09:15:17
46.   GobiasIndustries
You outlined that much better than I have tried to say it. But essentially that is what I've been trying to state.
2007-11-13 09:15:49
47.   ToyCannon
I think everyone forgets how good Lowell was before 2005 playing in that pitchers park. He still has the great defense going for him. If we didn't have LaRoche I would have no problem having Mike Lowell playing on my team for the next two years.
2007-11-13 09:17:27
48.   SG6
45 - but doesn't OPS+ factor for ballpark?

And how does team affiliation detract from his 2003/2004 seasons?

2007-11-13 09:20:26
49.   El Lay Dave
40 Why he wouldn't retire:
7. Friend of Jamie McCourt
2007-11-13 09:21:03
50.   KG16
the ESPN scouting report on A. Jones is a little troubling to me:

he's settled into a pattern of trying to crush the ball every time up to the plate, leading to some long swings and a frustrating number of double plays for a guy who still has average running speed

I'm a little skeptical of guys who do nothing but swing for the fences.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-13 09:25:45
51.   ToyCannon
You took a snippet from a smart guy who expects him to bounce back and have a normal A Jones year without the complete link. Based on your quote most people here would think that Law does not like A Jones and nothing could be farther from the truth.
2007-11-13 09:26:10
52.   Greg Brock
49 Remember, he has Jaimie's ear. He could easily give it back to her and move on.

He's kind of a jerk for keeping it all these years.

2007-11-13 09:28:07
53.   El Lay Dave
42 To be fair, why start at 2002?
Lowell OPS+:
1999: 90 (97 games, age 25)
2000: 110
2001: 105

I agree with 47 . Problem is, when an old catcher (Posada) signs for 4yrs/$52.4M, Lowell is going to want four years also. He will be 34 before opening day, so in that last year you would be paying for a 37-year old 3B. (Perhaps this is the true huge payroll advantage for the Yankees; they can afford to carry that potentially bad last year of a contract and only get into trouble when there are too many like that?)

2007-11-13 09:28:48
54.   ToyCannon
The complete breakdown of A Jones by Keith Law.
Andruw Jones

POSITION: Center Field
2007 TEAM: Atlanta Braves
STATUS: Unsigned -- Type B free agent

154 83 26 94 .222 .311 .413

Once upon a time, Jones was the best defensive center fielder in the game, and one of the best who ever played, eliciting comparisons to Willie Mays at his peak. Now, he's a good defensive center fielder who hits for power and shows some patience, but he has an approach at the plate that has gone backwards over the last few years. He's hit more than .280 just once in his career, in his apparent breakout year of 2000, but he's settled into a pattern of trying to crush the ball every time up to the plate, leading to some long swings and a frustrating number of double plays for a guy who still has average running speed.

It might make some sense for Jones to sign a one-year deal somewhere and hit the market again next winter, since he's almost a lock to bounce at least partway back from his 2007 debacle at the plate. The 2008 center-field class isn't as strong as this winter's, with Torii Hunter, Mike Cameron and Aaron Rowand all out there this offseason. If Jones and agent Scott Boras want the larger payday now, look for them to emphasize Jones' relative youth as an argument that he deserves five or more years. There's an upside play here, but gambling on upside usually means signing the player to a short-term deal.

2007-11-13 09:30:40
55.   El Lay Dave
52 Never thought of Jamie McCourt as the Van Gogh type. Did Vincent wear strappy heels too?
2007-11-13 09:33:39
56.   StolenMonkey86
40 - So what are the odds of this one:

Kent Retires
Pierre moves to 2B
Dodgers Sign Andruw Jones

2007-11-13 09:33:53
57.   ToyCannon
Right, the RedSox or Yankee's can afford to go 4 years on Lowell and eat the final two when he declines. The Sox did that with Varitek knowing full well they will need to eat the end of his contract.
2007-11-13 09:36:27
58.   bigcpa
THT did an exhaustive write-up on Andruw Jones in September:

He appeared to bounce back with a huge July then had some elbow soreness requiring a cortisone shot in August.

2007-11-13 09:37:43
59.   SG6
53 - I would agree on a big "no" to a 4-year deal. I omitted his early years because many players take time to develop. I believe 28 is the typical "coming of age" for baseball players.

It also need to be mentioned that he is a fine defensive player. But three years max.

2007-11-13 09:38:43
60.   SG6
56 - Isn't Slappy a lefty?
2007-11-13 09:40:27
61.   Bob Timmermann
Juan Pierre plays with the glove on his right hand.
2007-11-13 09:44:18
62.   Sam DC
61 Doesn't that thing get in the way at the plate?
2007-11-13 09:44:37
63.   KG16
50 - I didn't mean to imply that Law didn't like him, only that I'm skeptical of guys who swing for the fences all the time.
2007-11-13 09:45:28
64.   SG6
61 - Yes, hard to say he actually throws with his left hand.
2007-11-13 09:48:15
65.   El Lay Dave
From the last thread: Are a couple of those James' projection numbers mistranscribed? A few OPS don't seem to total correctly, but only two seem to be off by more than .001 (I assume .001 is a roundoff error of some sort.)

Kemp /.322/.365/.521/.873 (should be .886 ?)
Loney /,321/.372/.465/.823 (should be .837 ?)

2007-11-13 09:49:00
66.   Bob Timmermann
For your sports viewing tonight:
FSN is presenting tonight's Ducks-Kings games on two channels tonight. One will have the regular broadcast with the Ducks announcing team and the other will be without broadcasters and presented from an angle of a fan sitting down near the glass.

FSN did a similar thing for an Angels game this year.

2007-11-13 09:51:38
67.   Bob Timmermann
Although I'm sure most people want to see Cal State San Bernardino's ESPN debut.
2007-11-13 09:52:56
68.   das411
48 - Oh he was terrific for the Marlins in those great 2003 and 04 seasons, but only now that he has done it with the Sox (and, to be fair, in a walk year) is it automatically presumed that the year he wins the World Series MVP is his career year. Lowell has been a good-to-great player for a lot longer than many realize, partially because he played for so long in that ginormous ballpark in front of zero crowds. I say more power to him if he finally cashes in on it by making the Red Sox eat his last year or two!
2007-11-13 09:53:54
69.   ToyCannon
Just like a UC man to be dissing the Cal State's.
2007-11-13 09:54:40
70.   Eric Stephen
66 FSN did a similar thing last season when Kobe scored 65 against Portland. That had the double benefit of being amazing to watch and not having to listen to Joel Myers.
2007-11-13 09:56:22
71.   Bob Timmermann
Why is the chief administrator of all the CSUs called "Chancellor" and each campus has a "President" and with the UCs it's the reverse.

Padres owner John Moores resigned his job as a UC Regent effective today. He didn't say why.

2007-11-13 10:01:33
72.   Bob Timmermann
Rupert Murdoch has announced that once his purchase of the Wall Street Journal is made official, he will drop the fee-based access for the WSJ website.
2007-11-13 10:01:44
73.   ToyCannon
Your asking me an academic question? Are you crazy, I went to a Cal State, how can you expect me to know answers to questions not related to baseball or basketball?
2007-11-13 10:03:29
74.   ToyCannon
I guess I won't be reading the WSJ anymore. Thank God for MF.

By the way it is a Marvelous day.

2007-11-13 10:03:53
75.   fanerman
71 Way to subtly change the subject.
2007-11-13 10:04:54
76.   SG6
72 - as with most everything Fox - ad revenue is the business model.

BTW - anyone see the article in today's Times re: Baseball flush with Billions in revenue?

Boras couldn't have picked better timing.

2007-11-13 10:07:17
77.   Bob Timmermann
I'm glad the LA Times is all over the increase in revenues story. It was actually on the wires on October 25.
2007-11-13 10:07:53
78.   KG16
70 - wow, that would be sweet, no Joel Myers.
2007-11-13 10:09:50
79.   Bob Timmermann
Are you crazy, I went to a Cal State,

And yet, I have to still managed to develop a modicum of respect for you....

I admire the way you have overcome hardships.

And remember ToyCannon, Jon and Daniel Zappala hold my college degree in disdain.

And in turn Ivy Leaguers ridicule them.

And don't get me started on the people who went to Oxford or Cambridge.

2007-11-13 10:11:05
80.   old dodger fan
72 I subscribe to the print edition. I called and asked for access to the on line edition and they gave it to me.
2007-11-13 10:23:09
81.   Daniel Zappala
79 I actually have great respect for UC Berkeley. They have a fantastic CS program.
2007-11-13 10:23:22
82.   ToyCannon
But you've won 100 National Championships!!!
2007-11-13 10:24:05
83.   underdog
Duh-er, I went to a Cal State school, too, for undergrajumate skewl. {Said in Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel voice}

But then I went to an expensive private school for graduate studies, further proving how dense I am.

2007-11-13 10:24:23
84.   fanerman
81 Go Bears!
2007-11-13 10:29:06
85.   Bob Timmermann
Don't forget that there is also a bizarre arrangement of the UC campuses with each one thinking that they are better than someone for something.

Except for UC Merced, whom everybody forgets exists.

2007-11-13 10:29:15
86.   DodgerBakers
another thought on researching if you players have a boost in performance from hitting in front of good players: Using pitched ball data from enhanced Gameday, find out if players got better pitches to hit when hitting in front of good players. Compare that to what pitches other slots in the lineup saw. Use that pitch data and combine with how well each type of pitch is typically hit by the major leagues. It seems that might give you something.
2007-11-13 10:29:38
87.   ToyCannon
78 Dan Zappala made fun of me when I said my interest in the Lakers waned when Chick died, but he doesn't have to listen to Joel Myers out in God's country.
2007-11-13 10:32:42
88.   Sam DC
Who is this "Dan" of which you speak?
2007-11-13 10:33:12
89.   Sam DC
Ratt, Enders, musictriviologists of the world, start your engines:

2007-11-13 10:35:14
90.   Bob Timmermann
I took that last week. I think I got a 33.

It's very hard.

2007-11-13 10:35:41
91.   Xeifrank
65. Yes, a transcribe error. Should read.

Kemp .322/.365/.508/.873
Loney .302/.359/.465/.823

with .001 rounding errors.

vr, Xei

2007-11-13 10:35:59
92.   Bob Timmermann
See, there's a reason why you have "oversight" in your job title.
2007-11-13 10:36:09
93.   Kevin Lewis
Isn't there a CS Channel Islands? DO they get any respect? It is always just a blip on the way to Santa Barbara
2007-11-13 10:37:17
94.   Daniel Zappala
87 Since I'm in God's country, I can repent for making fun of you. But I'm now feeling righteous indignation that you have improperly shortened my first name.
2007-11-13 10:39:32
95.   Bob Timmermann
The CSU roster:
2007-11-13 10:42:27
96.   KG16
89 - I gave up a third of the way through, not that I don't know some of the answers, I'm just not sure I've got the time to take it.
2007-11-13 10:49:26
97.   Xeifrank
93. Yes, there is a CS Channel Islands. It's tucked away at the old Camarillo State Hospital facility. People like to pronounce it's CSUCI abbreviation as Cal-State Sushi.
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 10:50:31
98.   fanerman
96 I only know a handful, mostly Beatles related ones.
2007-11-13 10:53:20
99.   Marty
Having never set foot on a college campus, I root for the working man. Not you hifalutin college elitists.
2007-11-13 10:53:46
100.   dzzrtRatt
One of the reporters who broke the BALCO story for the SF Chron is jumping to ESPN:

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-13 10:56:53
101.   D4P
I chose the first answer for each question on the music quiz (and went chronologically for questions requiring multiple responses). My results were as follows:

But still smarter than Bush.

2007-11-13 11:04:19
102.   Xeifrank
C.C. wins it.
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 11:06:32
103.   LogikReader
Vote Broxton for Setup Man of the Year

That's an award?

2007-11-13 11:09:02
104.   ToyCannon
I always wanted to know how to spell "hifalutin".
2007-11-13 11:13:54
105.   dzzrtRatt
89 I got a 42, out of 58. That earned me "expert" status, so the quiz must be graded on a generous curve. Where I come from, that would be a low C.

I would have to wonder about somebody who knows that Neil Young played on an obscure Monkees' track, and also knew the birth order of Bob Marley's children.

2007-11-13 11:17:00
106.   wireroom
89 I scored a 41 and was deemed a whiz, but I should still study more liner notes it said.
2007-11-13 11:20:43
107.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh. I got a 39. And I don't listen to Rock and Roll. I got all the Tupac/Seagal questions right, even though I've never seen a Seagal movie, or heard a Tupac album.
2007-11-13 11:26:52
108.   Marty
2007-11-13 11:30:23
109.   Fallout
50 KG16
Every time I saw A. Jones he was swinging from the heels. It looked like he had a strain of the same disease that Raul Mondesi had in his last year with the Dodgers.
2007-11-13 11:30:53
110.   Kevin Lewis
I gave up after the first three questions.
2007-11-13 11:33:05
111.   silverwidow
Cubs sent Craig Monroe to the Twins for a PTBNL.
2007-11-13 11:33:55
112.   D4P
My guess is that Andruw:

1. was on PEDs for a while,
2. then found hitting HRs to come "naturally" (with no need to alter his swing),
3. quit PEDs,
4. found hitting HRs to no longer come "naturally",
5. and has since started swinging for the fences in an effort to still hit HRs.

2007-11-13 11:35:32
113.   D4P
On the bright side, the Cubs are getting rid of a lot of crappy outfielders.

On the dark side, they had a lot of crappy outfielders in the first place.

2007-11-13 11:35:32
114.   Bob Timmermann
Take your pick on the spelling:

2007-11-13 11:41:47
115.   Jon Weisman
Backup catcher issues are solved: Paul Bako is a free agent.

Paul's wikipedia entry says, "Bako is currently the lowest ranked player in the MLB according to Yahoo! Fantasy Baseball. His rank is 1015 out of 1015 players."

2007-11-13 11:44:44
116.   LogikReader

woo hoo!

Sign that man to a 9mil/yr contract!


Jon, I hope you didn't take any personal offense to my thoughts on the WGA strike. I think what I wanted to stress was that, while I am in the WGA's corner, I think it's the networks that have more to lose.

People who watch TV don't depend on it the way they did in the 80s. There are other options now, so I hope broadcast execs realize this and make a reasonable compromise quickly.

2007-11-13 11:48:50
117.   bhsportsguy
Can someone answer this question, Jeff Kent can no longer become a free agent, either he plays for the Dodgers or he will be on a restricted list until next season?
2007-11-13 11:50:25
118.   regfairfield
117 True. Even if he could he's past the filing date.
2007-11-13 11:54:20
119.   popup
The Dodgers have certainly had a lot of poor hitting catchers. I guess Piazza kind of makes up for some of the futility at the position. Yeager, Brent Mayne, Bako, Joe Pignatano, Doug Camilli, the list is endless.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-11-13 11:56:14
120.   Jon Weisman
116 - I took no personal offense whatsoever.
2007-11-13 12:02:13
121.   Bob Timmermann
Jon only takes offense if you make fun of the Wilmington, DE office of the WGA.
2007-11-13 12:03:01
122.   ToyCannon
So has every team but we've had more then our fair share of good hitting catchers in Los Angeles.
La Duca

and even Yeagar had two years with OPS+ > 100 to go with his stellar defense.

2007-11-13 12:07:19
123.   regfairfield
119 Every team has bad hitting catchers, and having at least a solid hitting catcher for all but two years since 1980 means we can't complain.

Bad shortstops, on the other hand...

2007-11-13 12:08:34
124.   bhsportsguy
Here is why the Rockies payroll will go up next year:
Arbitration Eligible Players for 2008 season

Colorado Rockies (6)
Garrett Atkins inf 3.072 (2007 salary - $400K)
Brian Fuentes rp 5.125 ($3.5M)
Brad Hawpe of 3.058 ($403K)
Matt Holliday of 4.000 ($4.4M)
Cory Sullivan of 3.076 ($900K)
Willy Taveras of 3.028 ($402K)

As compared to the Dodgers' list:

Los Angeles Dodgers (5)
Joe Beimel rp 5.053 ($912.5K)
Yhency Brazoban rp 4.024 ($403K)
Mark Hendrickson sp 5.056 ($2.92M)
Scott Proctor rp 3.010 ($442K)
Jason Repko of 3.000 ($402K)

The only "kid" who will I know that will be arbitration eligible going into next season will be Jonathan Broxton, Martin and Ethier may get in as "Super 2" (2 years plus 2006 service time)(Also Saito but he may not come back after next year anyway), the next group will have to wait until the end of 2009 (Chad Billingsley, James Loney, and Matt Kemp)

2007-11-13 12:10:34
125.   regfairfield
I wouldn't mind getting Cory Sullivan when he inevitably gets non tendered.
2007-11-13 12:13:51
126.   ToyCannon
Every team should have Juan Pierre and Cory Sullivan on it so they can be reminded how stupid they are that they are paying one 10 Million to do what they other does for the minimum.
2007-11-13 12:14:37
127.   bhsportsguy
125 We know he can hit Dodger pitching but what about the rest of the league.
2007-11-13 12:16:17
128.   old dodger fan
There are 29 starting pitchers on the Free Agent list.

I don't think any of them will be the focus of a high $ (by baseball standards) bidding war.

If I counted right there are 143 players altogether.

2007-11-13 12:16:19
129.   regfairfield
127 He has something like a 28% line drive percentage in eight or nine hundred career at bats. I think he's pretty underappreciated and would be a great guy to have as the fifth outfielder.
2007-11-13 12:16:31
130.   Bob Timmermann
We need more players with Irish surnames to keep Vin happy.
2007-11-13 12:22:25
131.   old dodger fan
Sean and Jack are the 2 most popular baby boy names in Ireland.
2007-11-13 12:29:52
132.   popup
I never thought of Roseboro as a good hitting catcher. I guess he was hampered by playing half his games at Dodger Stadium, but even so, he never seemed to me to be a good hitter. Nontheless, he was one of my favorites when I was growing up. I remember getting a chance to talk with him and Lou Johnson outside old Connie Mack Stadium. I went to the ballpark on a questionable day and by the time I got to Philadelphia the game was rained out. I saw them both outside the ballpark and talked with them while they were waiting for a cab. Lou was doing most of the talking, but Rosy was friendly too. I must have been about 14 or 15 years old at the time.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-11-13 12:37:40
133.   ToyCannon
His autobiography was very depressing for a young kid who thought everything was always fat and happy if you were a ballplayer. I'll always remember his vivid details of life after baseball, especially for a Los Angeles Dodger and the loss of celebrity.
2007-11-13 12:40:26
134.   Marty
132 If my mother was alive, she'd be jealous. Sweet Lou was her favorite all-time Dodger.
2007-11-13 12:41:08
135.   ToyCannon
I'm not going to check every year but in 1964 he had the 5th best OPS+ in the NL , and in 1967 he had the 4th best for catchers.
I just listed all LA Dodger catchers who had at least 2 or more seasons with an OPS+ 100. Johnny had 4.
2007-11-13 12:42:06
136.   bhsportsguy
He should stick to watching "Spongebob Squarepants"

Aubrey Huff was just a little too informative in this interview.

Actually, the article does not go into the exact details of the radio appearance but you can probably guess what he talked about.

2007-11-13 12:43:17
137.   old dodger fan
Norm Sherry was our catcher in 1960 - 1962. His OPS+ were 126, 80 and 50. He went to the Mets in 1963 and OPS+ was 13.
2007-11-13 12:50:25
138.   das411
Um...this Keith Law character says that Aaron Rowand is "a good fourth outfielder who's about to be paid like an above-average starter"...I know Philly teams just don't exist to most of ESPN, but this is just flat out wrong, no?
2007-11-13 12:53:11
139.   regfairfield
138 There are two very different players named Aaron Rowand. One is a near elite centerfielder that showed up in 2004 and 2007. The other one is a good fourth outfielder.

Me thinks people (including myself) are too lose with the term fourth outfielder.

2007-11-13 12:56:11
140.   El Lay Dave
I tied Marty at 36, which is also "a whiz, but you should still study more liner notes" level.
I look at my results and the green (correct) to red (incorrect) chronological progression was strikingly obvious.
2007-11-13 12:57:18
141.   underdog
97 They don't even have sports teams, I think... At least Cal State Monterey (the other "new" CS school) has some teams - they are nicknamed the Otters, which is perfect.

Man, if the Cubs are getting rid of their crappy outfielders, there's hope for us all... Right?

2007-11-13 12:57:32
142.   El Lay Dave
139 He'd be more consistent if he could concetrate better.
2007-11-13 12:58:20
143.   Branch Rickey
Not sure if it has been reported but Mariano Duncan will return to the Dodger coaching staff for 2008.
2007-11-13 13:03:00
144.   popup
Marty, I can't say Lou was my favorite Dodger, but he was up there, especially after I met that one time. I think at that at that age any kid appreciates an adult who is willing to treat them as an adult. I don't really remember what was said, but it was a good experience. In the few minutes I was with them before they got the cab, oddly enough no one came up to ask for an autograph or interrupted the conversation.

I remember Roseboro as being very streaky. It always seemed to me his cold streaks were more pronounced. I remember him fondly nontheless. I can't say there were any Dodgers during the Koufax/Drysdale days who I did not like.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-11-13 13:04:42
145.   regfairfield
140 I took it without guessing and got a four. Three of which were based on my knowledge of The Simpsons, Steven Seagal and failed hamburgers rather than music.
2007-11-13 13:05:36
146.   Bob Timmermann
In 1965, Roseboro was a bit streaky.

Check out his monthly splits, especially July and August.

2007-11-13 13:09:23
147.   Gen3Blue
I got 27--Whiz--but if they subtracted for guessing it might have been a negative no.

Good 60's-70's question--What connects the songs "Time won't Let Me" and "Precious and Few"

2007-11-13 13:12:40
148.   popup
Bob, I remember he went on a real hot streak after he stopped taking pre-game batting practice. I am not sure if that was in 1965.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-11-13 13:15:34
149.   ToyCannon
That July is as bad as it gets. He made up for it with a 423 OBP in the WS, plus he received a MVP vote in 65.
2007-11-13 13:16:21
150.   fanerman
89 I scored a 38. How did I do that?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-13 13:18:21
151.   Bob Timmermann
Now here's a slump:

2007-11-13 13:19:00
152.   fanerman
I got the Bob Marley's children song right. What a stroke of pure probability.

I think I only knew about 4 of those questions (The Beatles, David Bowie, U2).

2007-11-13 13:21:22
153.   silverwidow
There is allegedly a rumor going around Pro Player Stadium that Cabrera was traded to the Dodgers. This is from a moderator at a NY sports board. Could be fake, so I won't mention the site.
2007-11-13 13:23:53
154.   old dodger fan
151 All is forgiven if you win the WS.

153 I'm going to hold my breath until that rumor is disproven. I hope it happens soon.

2007-11-13 13:25:26
155.   regfairfield
154 I would assume it's disproven. Some guy saying that there might be a rumor going around is pretty far away from fact.
2007-11-13 13:26:34
156.   underdog
That's like a whisper of a tease of a hint of a rumor from an unreliable source, so best to let it go for now.

There is a new article on Cabrera on, though. If the Dodgers are trying to acquire him, this part would give us hope:

>>"This winter, I'm really going to work on my physical condition in order to be in the best shape possible for Spring Training," said Cabrera. "I've been at it for four weeks now at a gym that specializes in professional athletes, and I'll be there until the spring."

There have been whispers that Cabrera's added weight has hindered his defense at third base, and that he could be moved to first at some point. The 24-year-old has always said that third base is where he feels most comfortable, but he knows that baseball is a team game.

"I'd like to stay at third, but if the team feels that it's best for me and everyone that I play somewhere else, that's what I'll do. The important thing is to play every day and to help the team on defense as well as offense. I'd have no problem playing first, or even the outfield again, if that's how I can help my team in 2008." <<

2007-11-13 13:28:00
157.   old dodger fan
I would love to have Cabrera but what I would be willing to give up is far less than what everyone says they want. Given the choice I would rather play LaRoche at 3B and keep the players they want.
2007-11-13 13:28:55
158.   underdog
157 How about LaRoche at 3rd, Cabrera in left, and Pierre on another team? That works for me!
2007-11-13 13:31:19
159.   fanerman
158 If we got Cabrera, I imagine LaRoche would be part of the package.
2007-11-13 13:31:21
160.   jasonungar07
Colletti said of the team's situation at third base: "It's kind of like center field. We'll investigate and see."

See this is why I think he is a total jerk. What he should say is, we currently have one of the top 3b prospects in all of baseball who we have very high hopes for after getting a brief taste of the big leauges last season. This kid (LaRoche) is currently tearing it up for team USA and we are proud that him and Delwyn Young are helping the US bring home a title..etc...

If he manages to stay with the dodgers, he will be this year's Loney.

2007-11-13 13:32:04
161.   old dodger fan
158 Depends on who we have to give up to see that happen. Ref Pierre-You're living in a dream world.
2007-11-13 13:32:55
162.   Kevin Lewis
I guessed all the way until the last page and I got a 26
2007-11-13 13:33:33
163.   KG16
160 - he did follow that quote up by hoping that Nomar could provide the numbers he did in 2006, and that he was impressed by LaRoche in the World Cup.
2007-11-13 13:34:02
164.   jasonungar07
And to add..even if he dosen't belive it, it should be said.
2007-11-13 13:34:30
165.   fanerman
160 "Wait and see" is better than "Nomar's our man," at least.
2007-11-13 13:34:40
166.   Curtis Lowe
If the Cabrera rumor is true it better be LaRoche,MacDonald and Ethier for MC not LaRoche,Kershaw and Kemp. I would prefer LaRoche moving to 2nd base and trading Abreu.
2007-11-13 13:35:10
167.   jasonungar07
yeah exactly, hoping for Nomar
2007-11-13 13:35:23
168.   ToyCannon
Given that he has a background as a PR guy, it is strange that he doesn't take every opportunity to talk up everyone on the team.

Maybe he was not very good in PR and that is why he found another niche. I've often wondered how many people don't get a job that they would excel at because of the interview while many get a job they are not qualified for because they know how to manipulate an interview.

2007-11-13 13:38:29
169.   D4P
Regarding the possibility that Ned no longer wants Pierre in centerfield:

What could Ned have possibly learned about Pierre in 2007 that he shouldn't have already known prior to 2007?

2007-11-13 13:39:46
170.   bhsportsguy
160 For years and years and years and years, the Dodgers talked up prospects. And for years and years and years and years, they did not exactly set the world on fire.

Look, I don't think what Ned says about players is going to impact their value either on the Dodgers or in the trade market.

2007-11-13 13:40:16
171.   jystakes
If Cabrera is traded to the dodgers, there's no way it won't include at least one of Kemp, Kershaw or Billingsley.
2007-11-13 13:40:30
172.   old dodger fan
169 Maybe he is smarter now then he was then.
2007-11-13 13:45:15
173.   jasonungar07
170 awww so that's the reason. Coletti learned from other former dodger GM's who made the mistake of trying to pump up our own players...Forgive me if I am wrong, but the last player I can recall with hype was Ashley and that was years ago.

But it would impact how those players feel. Ask Loney or Either.

2007-11-13 13:45:41
174.   underdog
Wow, I got a 28 on that quiz, which is better than I expected, and involved a certain amount of guessing. Didn't guess that Jimmy Johnson went to school with Janis Joplin. Interesting. Fun quiz, if, yeah, damned near impossible.
2007-11-13 13:47:48
175.   wireroom
Keith Law irritates me with his constant remarks about how much more dominant the American League is than the National League. The National League has shown that it can win the World Series just as much as the American League. I just had to get that off of my chest.
2007-11-13 13:47:50
176.   jasonungar07
169 Maybe because he saw it with his own eyes? And I don't mean that smugly. When being sold, he was sold on what the player could do and not what he can't do? I don't know, I agree there is really no excuse to all of a sudden feel Kemp can play CF and Pierre can't. Pierre performed the way he always has.
2007-11-13 13:48:07
177.   regfairfield
I'm trying to remember our massively hyped prospects that became nothing over the last decade and a half and I'm not coming up with much. The only three I can think of are Ashley, Karim Garcia, and Angel Pena. Can someone fill in the blanks?
2007-11-13 13:48:48
178.   jasonungar07
Hey guys which post links the quiz everyone is talking about??
2007-11-13 13:50:03
179.   Eric Stephen
[177} Chin Feng Chen? Although he probably wasn't hyped as much as the others.
2007-11-13 13:50:47
180.   Eric Stephen
178 See 89 .
2007-11-13 13:52:16
181.   Eric Stephen
177 Also, I seem to remember the LA Times making a big deal of Dennys Reyes's first start, comparing him inevitably to Fernando.
2007-11-13 13:53:20
182.   El Lay Dave
177 Depending on definition, Darren Dreifort.
2007-11-13 13:55:26
183.   ToyCannon
Talk about hype, Andy Laroche collects 3 more hits and leads Team USA to yet another victory. Longoria who?
2007-11-13 13:55:47
184.   robohobo
181 Didn't Reyes turned into a pretty good relief pitcher?
2007-11-13 13:56:44
185.   regfairfield
175 It's pretty clear that the American League is better than the NL right now. Is there an NL team that's better than the Angels or the Tigers, let alone the elite teams?
2007-11-13 13:57:56
186.   ToyCannon
It was a little eerie. Young baby faced LH Mexican who was just a twee bit chubby. Who wouldn't have run with the comparison.
2007-11-13 13:58:21
187.   Bob Timmermann
Reyes became an acceptable LOOGY in time. But the Dodgers were hoping he would become a top-flight starter.
2007-11-13 13:58:25
188.   old dodger fan
185 If we sign AROD and put JP out to pasture I think we will be better than either of those 2 teams.
2007-11-13 13:58:39
189.   Sam DC
132 Great story!
2007-11-13 13:59:12
190.   robohobo
187 In that case, Offerman didn't quite live up to the hype either.
2007-11-13 13:59:30
191.   Xeifrank
177. I suppose the book is still out on Joel Guzman. vr, Xei
2007-11-13 13:59:38
192.   bhsportsguy
Look, if guys are going to be upset because their boss is not giving out glowing platitudes all the time, then they are in the wrong business.

177 Memories are long, why do people always bring the Dodgers win on pitching and defense, that was over 40 years ago.

Finally, the days where Baseball America was just some small newsweekly talking about the minors and the draft are long gone, now there is just so much more informantion available that you don't need to rely on what the teams themeselves say about their own players. I remember buying Baseball America in the late 1980's to get an advantage in fantasy baseball because very few people knew about team's minor league systems.

Again, perhaps this is a generational thing, me being a little older than most here, don't see why it should matter if the youngsters don't get all this love from the start, I mean these are not amateurs, they are professional athletes earning six figure salaries, that alone should be enough motivation to do the job.

But then that's me and I could easily have felt different 20 years ago.

2007-11-13 13:59:46
193.   JoeyP
177--Roger Cedeno, Wilton Guerrero, Todd Hollandsworth
2007-11-13 14:00:19
194.   ToyCannon
Given the players the AL had up for the AL ROY compared to the players up for the NL ROY, in conjunction with Justin Upton, Jay Bruce, and Andy LaRoche in the pipeline I think the NL will start making some inroads into that supremacy.
2007-11-13 14:00:38
195.   Humma Kavula
175 With respect, I think that there is a difference between winning the world series and being better.

I mean, the '98 Devil Rays were one of the worst teams I've ever seen, and they still managed to beat the best team I've ever seen, the '98 Yankees, once.

2007-11-13 14:02:24
196.   bhsportsguy
193 Hey, Hollandsworth was a ROY or is it the winner of the Jackie Robinson Award, Bob?
2007-11-13 14:03:00
197.   ToyCannon
I want money, respect, and the adoring love from my boss in that order, or I will cocoon up and then sign with Boras.
2007-11-13 14:03:18
198.   El Lay Dave
190 For reference, Offerman is at the edge of the "decade and a half" stated in 177 - dang I'm old!
2007-11-13 14:03:53
199.   robohobo
177 Eric Young
2007-11-13 14:05:13
200.   ToyCannon
Can't believe no one mentioned Karim Garcia.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-11-13 14:05:38
201.   robohobo
198 I keep thinking the 90s were just a couple of years ago.
2007-11-13 14:06:01
202.   El Lay Dave
200 in the original question, 177
2007-11-13 14:07:40
203.   D4P
I don't know, I agree there is really no excuse to all of a sudden feel Kemp can play CF and Pierre can't. Pierre performed the way he always has

There's no excuse for all of a sudden finding out that Pierre's arm is weak. I can see Ned not knowing that prior to 2007, but isn't that what scouts, assistant GMs, special assistants, Bill Muellers, etc. are for?

Inexcusable. All around.

2007-11-13 14:08:44
204.   bhsportsguy
200 I think someone did above.

And just to clarify my position on LaRoche (I already have a wager on him being the starter at 3B next spring though I think that is waived if either A-Rod or Cabrera is here)

2007-11-13 14:09:20
205.   dkminnick
89 - 45 for moi. The 90's hurt me.
2007-11-13 14:10:35
206.   wireroom
185 I count who's best by World Series Championships. The American League won this year and the National League the year before. Since 2001, the D-backs, Marlins, Cards have won it, so there is no reason to belittle the National League as being an inferior league that doesn't produce teams and players to contend with the American League.
2007-11-13 14:10:47
207.   El Lay Dave
203 Don't blame them all, remember, it's a fractured front office.....
2007-11-13 14:10:54
208.   Bob Timmermann
The Rookie of the Year receives the Jackie Robinson Award.
2007-11-13 14:13:08
209.   Humma Kavula
206 Fair enough. I see it differently.

I count champions by who's won World Series championships.

I count who's better by total games won and by imagining what teams in different leagues would do if they played against the other 162 times.

2007-11-13 14:16:06
210.   ToyCannon
I think Ned listened to the wrong scouts and advisers on Juan Pierre. It is quite possible he got advice pro and con. Going forward I expect the pro voices will not count as much as the con voices.
If they are even talking about moving him to LF, then the management team as a whole is not happy with his play in CF. Of couse they might only be focusing in on his weak arm and not on the fact he is miscast as a starting outfielder period.
2007-11-13 14:17:44
211.   ToyCannon
You don't think the interleague schedule record might be a tad more indicative of the state of each league rather then a 7 game series in bad weather?
2007-11-13 14:18:23
212.   Xeifrank
209. I prefer your method to a 7 game crapshoot too. vr, Xei
2007-11-13 14:18:47
213.   Disabled List
Is it too soon to count Joel Guzman among the failed Dodger stud prospects?

How about Edwin Jackson?

2007-11-13 14:20:25
214.   wireroom
212 I don't understand how winning a game with better pitching and hitting is considered a crapshoot?
2007-11-13 14:21:31
215.   ToyCannon
Yes, to soon.
Edwin was showing some flashes in the 2nd half.
JtD will only be 23 on Nov 24th.
2007-11-13 14:22:32
216.   Xeifrank
214. It has something to do with sample size and variation. vr, Xei
2007-11-13 14:26:15
217.   Kevin Lewis
Although moving Pierre to left is not the answer to the problem, the rumors make me believe that Ned is seeing the error he made. If Pierre is somehow traded, the first round is on me.

I still wonder what Nomar is thinking with all this speculation at third. I know it is a ton of money, but shouldn't the general feeling of not being wanted drive him to demand a trade?

2007-11-13 14:27:10
218.   wireroom
216 Well in the name of competition being what sports is about and championships considered accomplishment, when the final game(s) are played, the considered best team should win. The best team should be able to find a way to win. Stats are great and I heed them a lot, but you still have to be able to do it on the field where it counts.
2007-11-13 14:29:45
219.   Xeifrank
217. Just out of curiousity what would it take to trade Pierre for "no" players. No team would take Juan Pierre for nothing because of his contract. If the Dodgers paid half his salary for the remaining 4 years would a team take him off our hands?
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 14:30:02
220.   jasonungar07
Edwin Jackson and Greg Miller were to be Koufax and Drysdale, I do recall that..

And BH I don't think they need love, just better support. But that's me and i'll let it go.

I know I am a better employee here than at other companies because my bosses belive in me. You are correct 100% though in that it's really up to me (in this case them) to be the best I can be no matter what others think.

2007-11-13 14:30:33
221.   Humma Kavula
218 I think that's wrong. Championships exist not because they determine who's the best, but because they are fun. It's really something great to watch a couple of really good teams battle it out for a few games and then one gets to call itself the king for a year.

If you want to do is determine which team is best, you have to play a lot of games -- whoever wins the most is the best. That's worthwhile, but it's not as much fun as a championship.

Ultimately, it's a semantic argument.

2007-11-13 14:31:37
222.   Humma Kavula
221 Omit "do is" from the second 'graph.
2007-11-13 14:32:27
223.   Xeifrank
218. I have no problem stating the team that wins the W.S., is the champion, and in many cases the best team. But I have a problem using the logic of the National League being as strong as the American League because a National league team won the W.S. A seven or five game series is a crapshoot for the most part. Perhaps slightly loaded dice, but a crapshoot for the most part.
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 14:36:23
224.   silverwidow
Bob Nightengale is predicting that we will sign A-Rod for 10 yrs/$365 million

2007-11-13 14:38:32
225.   ToyCannon
Jackson, Miller, and JtD didn't pan out for us but they were the reason I got back into following the minors again after a lapse of about 10 years. I'll thank them for that.
2007-11-13 14:39:17
226.   Bob Timmermann
And four other writers predict Rodriguez signing with four different teams.

And the article has this:
"There also will be a variety of players available from the Far East, led by Chunichi Dragons outfielder Kosuke Fukudome, who declared for free agency after leading the Dragons to their first Japanese championship in 53 years."

The Dragons won the Japan Series DESPITE Fukudome missing about half the season and all of the postseason with an elbow injury.

2007-11-13 14:39:56
227.   KG16
I've got to agree with wireroom on this one. Don't you run into the sample size issues with the number of interleague games? I mean, with the exception of the Angels, the Dodgers only play 3 games against each AL team on their schedule. How is it that 3 games is indicative of being a good team but a best of 7 series is not?

wireroom is right, good pitching, good/timely hitting wins games, whether it's game 83 of 162 or game 7 of the World Series. Besides, how do you honestly say that the Red Sox or Yankees are best over the course of 162 games when they get a disproportionate share of games against the Orioles and Rays, or the Indians get to play the White Sox and Royals.

In the play offs the teams with the best records play each other. Then the winners of those series' play each other. Head-to-head competition is the best way to determine who is the best.

2007-11-13 14:41:19
228.   fanerman
218 Should win, of course. But if the best team always won, there would never be an upset would there? Sometimes the team that happens to be playing the best at the right time is the one that ends up winning, even in 7-game series. And of course there's match-ups. Good teams can lose to worse teams that happen to match-up well against them.
2007-11-13 14:42:52
229.   wireroom
221 223 I agree with a championship being fun, but I don't buy the whole crapshoot thing. The Red Sox, to me, were the best team this year because they won it all. They won the most games this year as well, but you could start to question those "most games" when one sees that the Sox and Yanks played teams like Tampa, and Baltimore almost 40 times each. The Red Sox proved to me that they were the best because they won under pressure when it really counted.
2007-11-13 14:44:36
230.   fanerman
227 Well, if you honestly think that the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals were the best team in the playoffs last year, okay.

I have no problem with the playoff method for determining the champion. Sports should have some element of surprise. If the best team always won, it'd be boring to watch. But "best team" and "champion" are two different things, at least to me.

2007-11-13 14:46:32
231.   fanerman
227 I think with comparing interleague records, he means for the leagues as a whole, not for a particular team.
2007-11-13 14:52:30
232.   wireroom
228 I agree that there are upsets, so therefore that upset team played the best and to me, was the best team. I can't qualify "should have won unless" it was poor officiating or the possiblity that the long layoff the Rocks had was physically unfair.
2007-11-13 14:55:20
233.   jasonungar07
I got a 43 on the quiz..I got lucky, but then missed some I should have gotten...and how on earth did i know which albums were tupacs and which were segal movies and not know the Led Zep
2007-11-13 14:56:51
234.   KG16
230 - The 2006 Cardinals were in first place 129 days that season. On Sept 19, they were 80-69, that's a pretty good record (a .539 winning percentage), then they had a bad run to end the regular season. They still turned it around and managed to beat three division champions in the play offs.

In my mind, yes, that makes them the best team.

2007-11-13 14:56:59
235.   wireroom
My main original point is that I don't like how Ketih Law refers to certain players being not good enough for the American League but good enough for the National League. That is complete BS to me.
2007-11-13 14:57:54
236.   Humma Kavula
232 It's not "should have won unless." It's "If these two teams played 10,000 times, Team A would beat Team B 7,500 times."

Under that scenario, Team B beating Team A isn't unfair or even a problem in any way. It's how we determine our champions, and that's fine.

You seem to see "best team" and "champion" as the same thing. I don't agree... I'm not sure either of us can convince the other.

2007-11-13 14:59:00
237.   kinbote
now that free agency has begun, i keep seeing the same names popping up: a-rod, andruw, torii, rowand, lowell, and the florida crew.

going backwards, i'm scared to death of a mega-deal with the marlins: i'm thinking they'd snooker us into taking dontrelle willis too. in that case, we'd probably be giving up five impact youngsters. no thanks.

i'm praying we don't go after lowell. to me, he represents the worst-case scenario: a PVL whom we'd be buying when his value is as high as it will ever be/has ever been. AND, he plays a position where we have a viable replacement (the resurgent andy "plug" laroche).

roward fits into the lowell category, heavy on the guts and grit. his agent is talking $14 million. insert laugh track here.

everything points to torii going to the white sox. i'm crossing him off the list.

leaving andruw & a-rod. we all know signing a-rod is not simply signing a player: it's placing all our chips on the number #13. it's deciding the direction of our future is a-rod. so long, "golden god"; hello "platinum visa." as much as he undeniably brings to the table, i'm voting "no" in deference to the kids, to laroche, to the strange curse that is a-rod.

that leaves andruw. it's unknown what caused his poor year. he's undoubtedly a gamble, but if we can somehow get him for a short deal, he represents less risk than other signings. 3y/$54m? i'd vote yes, if and only if it results in pierre losing his starting job. if we sign andruw, then shift pierre to left--dumping ethier along the way--it won't make any sense. i was thrilled to see some here defending ethier. in my mind, he's the least appreciated of our youngsters. to me, he's a great complementary player: play him in left-field, bat him 7th, and enjoy the results. he's a perfect example of play-him-before-he-gets-expensive.

i don't buy the mariano rivera talk. in fact, the only f.a. pitcher i really want is the japanese one [sorry, the name escapes me]. i tend to like "control pitchers" who throw 95 mph. after seeing saito's radar gun readings, i've unlearned the bias that japanese pitchers don't throw that hard.

this is your last chance, ned. do us proud.

2007-11-13 15:00:23
238.   wireroom
230 That Cards team had the best pitcher in the league that year in Chris Carpenter and the best hitter in Pujols as well.
2007-11-13 15:00:33
239.   fanerman
232 236 Yeah, I think at this point it's a semantics issue. And discussing further wouldn't be very productive.
2007-11-13 15:02:05
240.   Xeifrank
234. Were you predicting the Cardinals to win the W.S., during their playoff run? Or even the last month of the season??
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 15:02:14
241.   Wilbert Robinson
236 It's not "should have won unless." It's "If these two teams played 10,000 times, Team A would beat Team B 7,500 times."

Yes exactly but I think the cause of a lot of this resistence is the use of the term "crapshoot". Because what you said above doesn't equate to the definition of a crapshoot.

2007-11-13 15:02:39
242.   wireroom
236 nope, but it is fun trying to! I can see your point though.
2007-11-13 15:03:45
243.   regfairfield
238 Yes, and 23 other guys that were pretty bad. When David Eckstein is arguably the third best player on your team, you have issues.
2007-11-13 15:04:01
244.   Xeifrank
239. It's more than semantics, but the polite thing to do is probably drop it. :)
vr, Xei
2007-11-13 15:04:46
245.   Bob Timmermann
How come we never say the playoffs are like a roulette wheel? Or a game of baccarat? Or backgammon?

I think baccarat would be best just because I think it would be really cool to see Tony La Russa dressed up in a tuxedo and turning to Jim Leyland and saying "Pass the shoe."

2007-11-13 15:05:45
246.   Humma Kavula
241 The word "crapshoot" is an incendiary term because in Moneyball it's the word Lewis quotes Billy Beane using to describe the playoffs.

I think that Beane was using hyperbole to make a point and that his choice of words has been blown out of proportion.

2007-11-13 15:06:53
247.   KG16
240 - no I wasn't, but I'm a Dodger fan, so I was predicting (and rooting for) the Dodgers to win.

244 - yeah, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

2007-11-13 15:07:20
248.   Xeifrank
241. Most baseball games, especially playoff games where two teams are pretty evenly matched do not have a team with a 75% win probability. That is pretty much unheard of even when the Yankees are playing the Royals. The team with the better W-L record has won ~54% of 5 and 7 game series. "Anyone who claims to know what will happen is only fooling himself."

vr, Xei

2007-11-13 15:07:41
249.   LogikReader
After reading the rules, baccarat has to be the easiest Casino game ever conceived. It's almost like playing blackjack without making any decisions.

The thing that keeps the average Joe out of it is the high minimum bets!

2007-11-13 15:08:20
250.   regfairfield
245 Maybe the odds are too split down the middle. If you thought people had a problem with crapshoot...
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-11-13 15:08:48
251.   regfairfield
249 It was invented because Louis XIV was too dumb to play roulette.
2007-11-13 15:11:51
252.   Bob Timmermann
And you have to be either James Bond or a supervillain to play.
2007-11-13 15:13:10
253.   regfairfield
I'm getting an idea, but I don't know how dumb it is. Fill in the blank: I would trade Jonathan Broxton to the Brewers for____
2007-11-13 15:13:48
254.   wireroom
244 I am with you on agreeing to disagree but until they change the championship to "winner of the regular season," I gotta stick to my position.
2007-11-13 15:14:04
255.   KG16
253 - Ben Sheets and Prince Fielder
2007-11-13 15:14:50
256.   regfairfield
255 Okay, how about, the Brewers would trade ________ for Jonathan Broxton.
2007-11-13 15:15:02
257.   LogikReader

Besides, you don't even have to "know when to hold 'em" or "know when to fold them." Where's the fun in that?

2007-11-13 15:16:14
258.   KG16
255 - check that, Ben Sheets and Ryan Braun, I don't think Fielder or Loney could play third.
2007-11-13 15:16:47
259.   Jon Weisman
If anyone wants a collection of Baseball America issues that dates back almost 20 years, someone has e-mailed me offering it for free. I assume you'd just have to pick it up.
2007-11-13 15:19:52
260.   silverwidow
253 Gallardo
2007-11-13 15:20:23
261.   KG16
256 - heh, sorry, being a little facetious there, and in 258 . If I were the Brewers, I'd say Tony Gywnn or Rickie Weeks. Though, depending on their posture, and whether or not Broxton could become a starter, maybe they'd give up Sheets (though I highly doubt that is even a possibility).
2007-11-13 15:20:24
262.   regfairfield
Anyway, my point is that the Brewers have a very good young team that has no bullpen at all. Would trading Broxton or Saito for Corey Hart or Rickie Weeks or, heck, taking a stab at Ben Sheets, be a good idea? Would the Brewers do it?
2007-11-13 15:24:38
263.   natepurcell

Sheets has one more year left on his contract.

I like Corey Hart, but Pierre already makes are outfield crowded.

2007-11-13 15:25:07
264.   D4P
Whose are closer?
2007-11-13 15:26:05
265.   regfairfield
263 That's why I thought Saito for Sheets could be very, very interesting. But, it would never happen.
2007-11-13 15:27:39
266.   KG16
262 - If Kent doesn't come back, Saito for Weeks would seem like a good deal. I'd also ask about what they'd want for Sheets.

I don't know that the Brewers would be willing to trade Sheets at this point, if they didn't do it the last couple of years.

2007-11-13 15:27:56
267.   natepurcell
Hart's ZIPs projections with MIL

289/353/518 25hr 49bb 124k

Seems like Matt Kemp type projection. Although Kemp is going to be 23 next year whereas Hart will be 26.

2007-11-13 15:28:38
268.   KG16
Pierre, Saito, and Lowe for two of Hart, Sheets, and Weeks?
2007-11-13 15:28:50
269.   natepurcell

Nice catch. My mistake.

2007-11-13 15:30:10
270.   natepurcell
Gallardo's ZIPs are really good considering he is only going to be 22.
2007-11-13 15:33:17
271.   Jon Weisman
265 - Wouldn't a team turn a starter into a closer before trading a great starter for a reliever?
2007-11-13 15:33:19
272.   silverwidow
If Corey Hart comes to L.A., will he be wearing sunglasses at night?
2007-11-13 15:34:55
273.   wireroom
Hasn't Sheets had a history of arm problems?
2007-11-13 15:35:09
274.   KG16
heh, Bonds has been offered a deal with the Washington Wild Things of the independent Frontier League. League max deal - $1200 a month, 50-50 merchandise, and a "host family" so he doesn't have to rent an apartment.
2007-11-13 15:37:22
275.   fanerman
274 The lucky family should ink a contract for a new reality TV show.
2007-11-13 15:37:36
276.   regfairfield
273 Quite so.

271 Probably. I would think hard about this offer if I were the Brewers, but most likely reject it. One year of Sheets for whatever Saito has left favors us straight up, but maybe the Brewers don't want to deal with his arm problems.

2007-11-13 15:41:32
277.   Gen3Blue
I have tried not to weigh in on the NL vs. AL debate, but my basic feelings are these. 1st, both leagues draft from the same talent pool and shop in the same international markets, so the intrinsic differences can't diverge much. 2nd, without the DH the NL is a more complex and satisfying experience. For the same reason, the AL may at times seem to have better offensive stats than the NL. This could appeal to fantasy Baseball fans.
2007-11-13 15:41:39
278.   D4P
I see that LaRoche is hitting .429/.480/.905 in the World Cup.

Now then: quit getting hurt.

2007-11-13 15:43:28
279.   wireroom
276 in fairness to Saito, it was his shoulder blade that was hurt and he fixed it with a new age fandangled thing called acupuncture. I thought that was pretty cool. Maybe more ball players should look into alternative techniques like this?
2007-11-13 15:47:18
280.   wireroom
278 Maybe his performance is swaying how Flanders looks at the free agent market? I should hope because of my inherent dislike for A-Rod.
By the way, the Colletti/Flanders thing is amazing and cracks me up every time.
2007-11-13 15:49:31
281.   wireroom
277 those are all good points and touch on my original point that I think it is bull that Keith Law rates some players as being good enough for the National League but not the American League.
2007-11-13 15:49:31
282.   Kevin Lewis
Have we even heard about Saito coming back next year? Will he want to go back home to his family or stay with the Dodgers?
2007-11-13 15:50:16
283.   LogikReader

Hodily didily do you figurooski?

2007-11-13 15:50:51
284.   LogikReader
Howdily didly did I make another typeroony?
2007-11-13 15:51:02
285.   fanerman
281 I agree that that's a pretty lame comment to make.
2007-11-13 15:52:49
286.   Izzy
Wow. There really is a site at I thought it was a joke.
2007-11-13 15:53:17
287.   Wilbert Robinson
282 I guess we'll have to wait until he calls Larry king.
2007-11-13 15:57:59
288.   therickdaddy
282 - yes, I distinctly recall Saito stating that he already talked to his family and is coming back next season. I believe Rawitch said it.
2007-11-13 16:03:07
289.   Kevin Lewis

Oh good. I was going to miss his smile.

Oh, and his crazy slider

2007-11-13 16:03:13
290.   underdog
I have a feeling the news that the Dodgers hired a new assistant trainer today will be the team's biggest announcement this week.
2007-11-13 16:04:52
291.   Bluebleeder87

affirmative on that, I read it also.

2007-11-13 16:09:28
292.   kinbote
259 could LAT pick it up and drop it off at my office?
2007-11-13 16:11:08
293.   wireroom
283 maybe seeing Laroche play well in international games which is pretty good competition will sway him towards holding onto Laroche.
2007-11-13 16:25:27
294.   Eric Stephen
293 Are these international games really good competition? I'm not trying to be glib; I really do not know.

Anything that sways in favor of LaRoche is good though, so this patented LaRoche hot streak® is good for the Dodgers, whether it sways them to keep and play him or it increases his trade value.

2007-11-13 16:25:27
295.   Daniel Zappala
RIP, Laraine Day.
2007-11-13 16:26:25
296.   jasonungar07
on yahoo..

NEW YORK (AP) -- Mariano Rivera was offered a $45 million, three-year contract to stay with the New York Yankees. Now, the team is waiting to hear back from its star closer.

"He'd be by $4 million a year the highest-paid relief pitcher," Yankees senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said Tuesday. "To say that's a strong offer would be an understatement."

2007-11-13 16:28:53
297.   silverwidow
With Torre having seen Lowell play so much the last two years, I suspect he'll be pushing for that signing if A-Rod isn't possible.
2007-11-13 16:45:27
298.   Jon Weisman
David Pinto's 3B fielding ratings

2007-11-13 16:51:56
299.   jasonungar07

"It's a great race between both L.A. clubs, no doubt,'' the person said.

"The person" sounds like something in a COEN movie. Speaking of, anyone see that yet? I was trying to go Sunday but got stuck seeing Micheal Clayton instead (I thought it was good)

2007-11-13 16:54:52
300.   Jon Weisman
299 - Personally, I liked Michael Clayton more, which is rather shocking. No Country is exceptionally well done but somehow more distancing.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-11-13 16:56:58
301.   Humma Kavula
299 No Country for Old Men is one of the bleakest movies I have ever seen.

I don't intend that as a criticism. It's extraordinarily well-made and works as a thriller at every turn.

But Charles Dickens, were he not dead, could see this movie and say, "Geez, lighten up, guys."

2007-11-13 16:57:04
302.   Jon Weisman
299 - I reject the premise of that article.

"The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp. "

2007-11-13 16:58:16
303.   D4P
The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp

No thanks. I have a hard time believing any other team would be asked to give up this much.

2007-11-13 16:59:01
304.   underdog
299 You can't go wrong with either film, imho.

Re: That article, I know Cabrera is wonderful and young and all but still this makes my stomach turn over:
>>"The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that includes pitcher Chad Billingsley, pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw, third baseman Andy La Roche, first baseman James Loney and outfielder Matt Kemp. The Dodgers probably would balk at giving both Billingsley and Kershaw in the same deal because it would hurt the organization's pitching depth.

"Right now it's just a matter of who they're comfortable with (giving up),'' the source said of both the Angels and Dodgers.<<

2007-11-13 16:59:52
305.   underdog
Are we jinxed from posting and worrying about the same exact section three times in a row? Should we say it three times fast now?
2007-11-13 17:00:28
306.   D4P
"The Dodgers would have to give up four players from a group that..."

Oh, never mind.

2007-11-13 17:04:42
307.   dzzrtRatt
280 Didn't Ned say exactly that in the Times today?

Lemme see....yep:

Colletti said he considered the Dodgers' present options at third base to be viable. He said he is hoping that Nomar Garciaparra will recapture his 2006 form, when he was the National League comeback player of the year, and that he has been encouraged by the performances of Andy LaRoche at the Baseball World Cup in Taiwan. LaRoche hit two home runs Sunday in the Untied States' 12-2 victory over Spain.

(I wonder if the Untied States players trip over their shoelaces when they run the bases.)

One way to look at this quote (and the next graf too) is Ned trying get both Florida and Boras to stop thinking they've got so much leverage against the Dodgers. But taking it on face value, Ned seems to have noticed LaRoche's performance and it's having an impact.

2007-11-13 17:05:15
308.   FirstMohican
Is the writer familiar with those 5 players?
2007-11-13 17:05:29
309.   D4P
I'm not even sure I'd trade three of those players for Cabrera. Course, three will sound really good to Ned when he's been initially asked to give up four.
2007-11-13 17:05:33
310.   fanerman
299 Four players!!

Everybody else is saying it so why can't.. me?

2007-11-13 17:07:15
311.   D4P
He said he is hoping that Nomar Garciaparra will recapture his 2006 form, when he was the National League comeback player of the year

...and when he hit .229/.286/.408/.694 after the All-Star break.

2007-11-13 17:08:53
312.   fanerman
.286/.408/.694 sounds good to me. Oh wait, that's OBP/SLG/OPS.
2007-11-13 17:09:05
313.   jasonungar07
You all don't belive "the person"? lol

If we gave up those 4 instead of just paying A-rod (if they feel the need to uprade so badly) I am not sure I can remain a dodger fan. Maybe thats Tracy Morgan Crazy talk but it's how I feel. And I have never been close to feeling that before in 30 years.

Good feedback on the movie guys, I am glad we didnt go. It was my wife's idea she will do anything to keep her mind off the fact that we are now offically 5 days late. Our baby was due Nov 8, but he/she(not sure) won't come out until after the winter, kidding. So yeah seeing a bleak and distant movie would have been a bad idea. I enjoyed Clayton and my wife really liked it..I thought the payoff was very satisfying.

2007-11-13 17:14:58
314.   Humma Kavula
313 Spawn of Kavula is also very late. Talk of inducing will happen on Thursday if she is not here before then.

She was due November 4.

Congratulations, Jason, if I don't see you before your big day!

2007-11-13 17:19:28
315.   Humma Kavula
Oh, also: if the Dodgers give up four of those five, I am going to be very, very cross. I may even write a strongly worded letter to the newspaper! A VERY strongly worded letter!
2007-11-13 17:20:06
316.   jasonungar07
You too Amigo! Our's is set for Monday the 19th if not here yet. How ya holding up?

Are you here in LA Area? We can bring em both to dodger thoughts day 08. Hopefully bring the kids to watch the kids!

2007-11-13 17:21:55
317.   scareduck
277 - 1st, both leagues draft from the same talent pool and shop in the same international markets, so the intrinsic differences can't diverge much.

Disagree. This also depends on whether the two leagues put equal dollars into scouting/signing young, cheap amateurs. I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a study recently that showed the AL was walloping the NL in Latin scouting/signings, by a substantial amount.

2007-11-13 17:21:58
318.   jasonungar07
Jon...I Would like a blue shirt...large.
2007-11-13 17:22:21
319.   dzzrtRatt
My son was three weeks late, and finally, it took a cesarean to get him out. But his mom did go through false labor during "Dick Tracy."

It's hard to get him moving even now, and he's 17.

2007-11-13 17:22:46
320.   Humma Kavula
Yep -- live in the south bay, work in culver... we'll be birthin' at Little Company of Mary in Torrance.

And I am planning on attending DT Day '08 with Naomi, if indeed it's bring-the-kids-to-DT-day.

2007-11-13 17:23:29
321.   D4P
2007 VORP:

Cabrera: 71.4

Loney + Kemp + Billingsley: 94.8

2007-11-13 17:26:18
322.   fanerman
321 Ned and VORP?
2007-11-13 17:26:32
323.   63Dodger
Took the quiz mentioned 'way earlier in the thread (89). Scored a 32, whiz-level, which says absolutely nothing about my music knowledge but a little about analytical guessing and test gamesmanship, and a lot about luck. Which is also how I did well on my SATs.
2007-11-13 17:27:10
324.   Humma Kavula
How ya holding up?

The anticipation is killing me. I was doing fine until we got to the due date. The past nine days have been murder.

How 'bout you?

2007-11-13 17:29:17
325.   D4P
Ned and VORP?

Granted, he's more comfortable with esoteric qualitative mathematical review times five.

2007-11-13 17:32:05
326.   fanerman
325 So how does Cabrera compare with the Loney/Kemp/Billingsley combo when using the esoteric qualitative mathematical review times five metric?
2007-11-13 17:34:23
327.   D4P
We'll have to ask Ned during his next chat session.
2007-11-13 17:39:40
328.   alexx
I wouldn't even trade 'just' Kemp and Billingsley for Cabrera. Unless they would take Pierre and we can sign a new center fielder. Maybe even then I wouldn't do it..
2007-11-13 17:42:22
329.   Jon Weisman
Joe Capozzi makes his bid for the November 2007 Evan Grant Rumormonger of the Month Award.
2007-11-13 17:48:01
330.   Marty
I had to get stitches at Little Company of Mary a long time ago when I cut my wrist trying to break into my own apartment (don't ask). I told the doctor "I cut my wrist" and he very seriously asked me "on purpose?"
2007-11-13 17:50:08
331.   ToyCannon
I covet most the of the Brewers players but I would easily trade Broxton for Weeks. He will either make it at 2nd base or eventually CF. Very soon he's going to put up a 280/400/450 line as a 2nd baseman or CF.
2007-11-13 17:50:31
332.   Humma Kavula
328 Assuming that the Dodgers can't/won't/don't sign A-Rod.... which I still think is the right thing to do...

I'd do the deal in 328 . Kemp and Billingsley and Pierre for Cabrera? Done. Then sign Jones.

Furcal SS
Martin C
Cabrera 3B
Jones CF
Kemp LF
Loney 1B
Kent 2B
Ethier RF


Looks pretty good to me.

2007-11-13 17:51:31
333.   Humma Kavula
332 I forgot, I don't have Kemp.

new lineup coming...

2007-11-13 17:53:18
334.   Humma Kavula
Furcal SS
Martin C
Cabrera/LaRoche 3B/LF
Jones CF
Loney 1B
Kent 2B
Ethier/LaRoche LF
LaRoche/Young RF
2007-11-13 18:03:23
335.   ssjames
334 I actually really like that plan although I don't see the Marlins ever agreeing to take on Pierre as they are trying to cut salary, but if in some way it worked. I would use your lineup thusly.

Furcal SS
Martin C
Cabrera LF
Jones CF
Loney 1B
LaRoche 3B
Kent 2B
Ethier RF

Now that lineup would pack a wallop, and be the best use of resources everywhere with that talent imo.

2007-11-13 18:05:55
336.   dzzrtRatt
317 The only answer for the AL-NL disparity can be the DH. It's the only changed variable.

What else is different? NL teams want to win less?

I've heard the argument that the AL is chasing the Yanks/Sox, but I don't buy it as a complete explanation.

With the need to add another hitter to the lineup every day, and the need for pitchers to prepare for tougher lineups, I would hypothesize that the AL teams draft and develop differently. Also, the DH removes the need for some of the strategic "little-ball" that NL managers use, and puts more of an emphasis on power. It's probably no accident that Juan Pierre's tour of the MLB has been exclusively with NL teams. There isn't an AL team he would start for.* The most NL-like AL team, the Angels, has started to compile a pretty dismal record in the playoffs because they are overstocked with NL type players, and the disadvantage of having that kind of a lineup really shows up in the postseason.

I'm not saying I prefer DH-ball, but I think it's a reasonable hypothesis that the DH gives the AL a perpetual edge when it comes to interleague and World Series play.

*wild generalization, not based on review of every lineup.

2007-11-13 18:08:20
337.   Marty
336 I can see Ozzie Guillen being dumb enough to start Pierre.
2007-11-13 18:10:55
338.   D4P
Ozzie did promise to bunt more in 2008...
2007-11-13 18:12:25
339.   dzzrtRatt
337 Right, and his GM traded for Darin Erstad, an NL-type player inexplicably regarded as a coveted player. But they've ditched him now, haven't they?

Granted the White Sox are another team that tries to win with NL types. Podsednick is another one. And, obviously, sometimes it pays off. I'm just speaking to the tendency of the AL to be superior to the NL. The NL's in-season interleague debacle is really the fairer test of this hypothesis. And the All-Star game edge is not completely insignificant evidence. The AL lineups are just so much more loaded, you never doubt they're going to win, in all likelihood.

2007-11-13 18:25:29
340.   Dodgers49
328 I wouldn't even trade 'just' Kemp and Billingsley for Cabrera.

I wouldn't trade Matt Kemp straight up for two years of Cabrera. And unless we get a 72-hour window to sign an extension, two years are all we can really count on.

2007-11-13 18:26:38
341.   Humma Kavula
336 You may be right, but if it's true, why doesn't losing a DH when playing in NL parks affect AL teams more than the other way around?
2007-11-13 18:27:41
342.   Gen3Blue
Just got in
281 Yeah I think that's bull!

317 This could be true, but to me its the kind of thing that evens out over time, and it is a team thing anyway, not a league thing. I could believe several AL teams are doing a good job in Latin America at the moment, but it would take a long time to convince me it was a league thing.

2007-11-13 18:29:20
343.   Humma Kavula
340 The key to 328 is that they also take Pierre, the team's biggest long-term structural problem.

I am aware that that trade would never happen... just saying that I'd offer it, and if it turned out that we lived in the parallel universe where it was accepted, that could be good.

2007-11-13 18:33:23
344.   Gen3Blue
If the D's traded Billingsley in a trade for one offensive player available,(and this doesn't apply to A-Rod), I would know the brains in management had dissapeared down a black hole. The D's have played the major part in showing the only way to get deep into the playoffs is to control good pitching.
2007-11-13 18:33:30
345.   Sam DC
I wouldn't put anything past the Orioles.
2007-11-13 18:37:07
346.   Johnson
343 I wouldn't want to give up any of our good prospects in order to "get rid" of Pierre. If you can't trade him in the offseason with the bait of a lower tier prospect or salary compensation, you hold your nose and play him - or hold your nose and bench him. Then put him on waivers at the deadline and see what happens. (And yes, I recognize that the proposition includes Cabrera coming back as well, but if you wouldn't trade the prospects for Cabrera straight up but would to include Pierre, then you effectively are giving up the prospects to get rid of him.)

Oh, and I'm very late, but four of our five best prospects for Cabrera? Truly insane.

2007-11-13 18:38:20
347.   Bob Timmermann
I remember when people thought the AL was superior to the NL because it had two more teams and so the league was able to "draft more players."

That was one of Lasorda's complaints. Now, the NL has two more teams and is not better.

The AL's big advantage it seems to me is that its big revenue teams are all run pretty well (Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels) while the big revenue teams in the NL have fair (Mets) to poor (Cubs) to apallingly bad(Dodgers) management.

The NL is bad because NL teams don't acquire good talent as efficiently as the AL does.

2007-11-13 18:41:24
348.   Bob Timmermann
And I apologize for being opinionated.

I won't do it again.

2007-11-13 18:43:09
349.   old dodger fan
347 But the AL has the Orioles and the Rangers.
2007-11-13 18:43:48
350.   Gen3Blue
348 I should hope not!
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-11-13 18:45:29
351.   Hallux Valgus
341 Because AL teams aren't really "losing" anything, they're just gaining the best pinch hitter in the NL. NL teams in AL parks end up with Mike Lamb as a DH, while AL teams just get one at bat from Jim Thome. (obvious over simplification aside). AL teams can hide guys whosebest position is "hitter" while NL teams are forced to decide whether, say, Jack Cust's bat is good enough to take the inevitable fielding hit, or just jettison him to the AL. Billy Butler is another good example of that.
2007-11-13 18:45:34
352.   scareduck
347 - I wouldn't say the Dodgers have appallingly bad management just yet. McCourt has the attention span of a two-year-old, but that doesn't mean there aren't signs the FO has something akin to a plan. The problem is, they seem unable to stick to it.
2007-11-13 18:46:48
353.   Bob Timmermann
I stand by the phrase "appallingly bad."

Can't I be appalled by something other than people eating peaches?

2007-11-13 18:51:13
354.   Gen3Blue
353 As you should. Imagine what a small market team could have done with our system.
2007-11-13 18:54:43
355.   Hallux Valgus
352 I'm not sure that's a good thing. The best thing I can say about the front office is it diverges from the plan when it fails (which it inevitably does)- dumping Baez and Carter, moving Nomar, considering moving Pierre...

I think they need a better plan, which might mean a better planner.

2007-11-13 18:56:15
356.   bigcpa
343 Hey Humma- where do you work in Culver?
2007-11-13 18:57:24
357.   El Lay Dave
336 I think it's an important note that "little ball" in this context has to include 2-for-1 switches for pitching changes, which is not an issue in the AL. The AL team carries a big-bat DH, the NL team carries a Ramon Martinez.

347 I've also thought that the performance gap between the AL and NL big-revenue franchises was a factor.

352 What does one call something that is akin to plan and not stuck to?

2007-11-13 18:58:51
358.   Bob Timmermann
The best part of the double switch is that you take out a pitcher and presumably one of your best eight hitters to put Ramon Martinez in to the game!

Woo hoo!

2007-11-13 19:12:02
359.   D4P
I stand by the phrase "appallingly bad."

You've stood by it long enough.

Now sit down and shut up.

2007-11-13 19:15:44
360.   Bob Timmermann
Let me tell you why I hate the double error...
2007-11-13 19:16:23
361.   Eric Stephen
359 A little harsh, no?
2007-11-13 19:17:28
362.   Bob Timmermann
bhsportsguy is off partying with the Youngstown State fans who are whooping it up after the Penguins won their consolation game at the CBE Classic!
2007-11-13 19:18:47
363.   Eric Stephen
I don't think the Lakers are going to win tonight in San Antonio. Down 17 after three quarters.
2007-11-13 19:20:49
364.   Bob Timmermann
Washington is going to play the New Jersey Institute of Technology in a first round Preseason NIT game in Seattle.

NJIT, a Division I independent, lost its opener to Manhattan.

They scored 28 points.

2007-11-13 19:21:57
365.   Eric Stephen
Pretty good article on bullpen construction by Josh Heyman at SI:

Here's an excerpt / lesson:

>> In just a seven-month span in 2006, Towers obtained relievers Cla Meredith, Doug Brocail, Heath Bell, Kevin Cameron and Justin Hampson at the combined talent cost of Jon Atkins, Ben Johnson and Doug Mirabelli. None of those five relievers he acquired earned more than $500,000 last season. And San Diego's bullpen wound up with the best ERA in baseball (3.01). <<

2007-11-13 19:25:25
366.   Eric Stephen
365 And by "Josh" Heyman, I meant "Jon". And by "Jon Heyman", I meant "Tom Verducci."

I ned to hire a fact checker for my posts. Sheesh!

2007-11-13 19:27:58
367.   El Lay Dave
358 Did Bob Timmermann really write "Woo hoo"???
2007-11-13 19:29:14
368.   Sam DC
367 Can "Woot!" be far behind?
2007-11-13 19:31:37
369.   El Lay Dave
364 However, each of the NJIT players was able to approximate the trajectory of each of his shots with a second-order equation, and calculate an approximate stress table for the rim-backboard assembly based on the observations of the Huskies thunder-dunks.
2007-11-13 19:33:17
370.   Eric Stephen
368 Wasn't there a "Woot, there it is" song 10-15 years back that ran second fiddle to the more ballyhooed "Whoomp, there it is"?

Wait, don't answer that. I haven't taken the music quiz from 89 yet.

2007-11-13 19:33:25
371.   El Lay Dave
368 Soon he will claim to have "pwned" someone.
2007-11-13 19:33:34
372.   Bob Timmermann
That's the new Bob. Highly opinionated and prone to saying "Woo Hoo!" I'm thinking of becoming a conspiracy buff too.
2007-11-13 19:34:55
373.   Sam DC
ESPN2 is showing me Toledo v. Ball St in football. The fourth quarter is just starting.

But the channelscrollchannel says it should be CBE basketball.

What have I done to deserve this?

2007-11-13 19:35:15
374.   Lexinthedena
Lakers are gonna lose tonight...but Farmar can get up!
2007-11-13 19:35:45
375.   Lexinthedena
As soon as I post that he has great hops, he turns his ankle....
2007-11-13 19:36:32
376.   Bob Timmermann
Sam loves his Cal State San Berdoo basketball!
2007-11-13 19:38:28
377.   Sam DC
372 Start studying up.

2007-11-13 19:39:14
378.   Lexinthedena
Horrible defense tonight by the Lake Show....unbelievable...
2007-11-13 19:39:36
379.   Hallux Valgus
37 oh man- that was by 95 South, a Miami Bass rap group. Their song actually came first, and I believe there was a bit of controversy... at least in the bass rap community. The track was almost the same.

And I'm kind of ashamed to know that.

2007-11-13 19:41:53
380.   Bob Timmermann
If they take me to court and the flag displayed there has fringe on it, I will deny that the judge has any jurisdiction over me.

I also don't believe Ohio legally became a state, so I'm not going to pay any income tax.

2007-11-13 19:42:54
381.   Hallux Valgus
that was 370 and the controversy was because the producers' doubled up on the song- they also produced the Tag Team version. Also- the producers were Miami bass rap rivals 69 Boyz and after that Quad City DJ's. They were great at catchy theme songs.
2007-11-13 19:43:56
382.   Daniel Zappala
Bob, I made this certificate just for you:

| This certificate is hereby presented to
| ____ Bob Timmermann ____
| entitling him to one (1) full year of
| outrageous opinions, on subjects of
| any kind, without complaint from the
| DodgerThoughts readership.
| This certificate is non-transferrable
| and has a cash value of 0.01 cents.
| Expires: 13 November 2008

Unfortunately, it expires in one year, so after that you'll have to fall back on non-opinionated humor.

2007-11-13 19:46:14
383.   Eric Stephen
I scored 28 on the music quiz from 89 . I'm shocked I got that high.
2007-11-13 19:47:06
384.   El Lay Dave
What is "bass rap"? Large fish chanting rhymes that taunt rod-and-reel wielding pursuers?
2007-11-13 19:47:22
385.   Kevin Lewis
What if the peaches were cut and pitted for you?
2007-11-13 19:47:51
386.   Daniel Zappala
I dragged my feet on the music quiz because I know nothing about that subject -- yet I got a 27 with some educated guesses. There were maybe 2 I knew off the bat.

I can't believe the Lakers are going to lose after Tim Duncan scored only 5 points.

2007-11-13 19:48:13
387.   Sam DC
So US Women's Soccer has a new coach.

She is Swedish.

Lou Dobbs is concerned.

Is Hope Solo still on the team?

2007-11-13 19:49:50
388.   Sam DC
Her first name is Pia.

Her last name is not Zadora.

2007-11-13 19:51:33
389.   Hallux Valgus
384 pronounce "bass" as if it were "base"
It's the low level on your fader. Bass= 12 inch sub woofers

387 Hope Solo was on the roster for the Mexico friendly, so I expect her to be on the roster going forward. I wanted to buy her jersey, but they only offered women's sizes.

2007-11-13 19:53:27
390.   Hallux Valgus
on that note- any thoughts on the US roster for the South Africa friendly? I'm thrilled that Jozy Altidore is on the squad.
2007-11-13 19:54:14
391.   Bob Timmermann
International soccer coaches come from all over the place all over the world.

The LA Galaxy's new coach is Dutch (and I think approximately 20 other ethinicities).

2007-11-13 19:57:43
392.   Hallux Valgus
391 I believe he is Dutch and Surinamese, but at this point, aren't we all mutts?
2007-11-13 19:57:50
393.   El Lay Dave
389 As if Barry White went a different genre route?
2007-11-13 19:59:46
394.   Bob Timmermann
You really just wanted to type "Surinamese" didn't you?

It's OK. I would too.

2007-11-13 20:00:15
395.   overkill94
"Help me Hope Solo, you're my only Han"

that was much funnier in my head

2007-11-13 20:04:00
396.   El Lay Dave
I thought Hope Solo was the grandniece from U.N.C.L.E., or something like that.
2007-11-13 20:05:29
397.   Hallux Valgus
394 Abso- freakin- lutely!
2007-11-13 20:07:55
398.   Greg Brock
San Berdoo has nifty uniforms.
2007-11-13 20:10:11
399.   Hallux Valgus
398 are they more reminiscent of the advent of Hell's Angels or McDonalds? Both began in San Berdoo.
2007-11-13 20:11:03
400.   Greg Brock
It was a dark day when John Wooden was introduced to bolo ties.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-11-13 20:13:34
401.   Hallux Valgus
400 I remember bolo ties. It the same era as Z Cavariccis and Chess King in my neck of the woods. awful and embarrassing
2007-11-13 20:22:13
402.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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