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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

It's Thanksgiiviing
2007-11-22 06:06
by Jon Weisman

The Angels laid all the Torii Hunter speculation to waste Wednesday night, swooping in undetected to get the centerfielder (with a stunner of a five-year, $90 million contract) just like they did with the now underpaid Vladimir Guerrero.

Can you believe Gary Matthews Jr. and Juan Pierre may now both spend time in left field?

Regardless, no doubt this will heighten speculation about what the Dodgers will do. Me, I'm going to spend this holiday the same way I always intended - hoping the Dodgers are rational in whatever they do without wasting a minute trying to predict, because you can't predict. You can only hope that the turkey's juicy and that somehow, some way, you get a nap.

Happy Thanksgiving, folks.

Comments (471)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-22 07:44:42
1.   Bumsrap
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
2007-11-22 07:49:04
2.   timm
Interesting how the Angels have gone from "No changes Bill" to "Let's make a Deal Tony".
2007-11-22 07:49:52
3.   Rob M
Thanks Tony Reagins, and happy Thanksgiving to all you folks.
2007-11-22 07:57:09
4.   Bumsrap
3--Thanks, as in one down, one less poor choice for Ned?
2007-11-22 07:57:33
5.   Ken Noe
Happy Thanksgiving all, thanks for letting me join in.
2007-11-22 08:02:04
6.   Bumsrap
I am happy today because first, I choose to be happy, and second, for what the Dodgers haven't done this off-season.
2007-11-22 08:02:44
7.   LAbits
Send a subsidized Pierre back to Florida with Kershaw/McDonald and La Roche for Cabrera (less competition now), perhaps sign Rowand and you have a hugely improved club with depth that needs one more starting pitcher.
2007-11-22 08:02:47
8.   Chuck Churn
Happy Thanksgiving to all!

In the last thread, someone suggested that we could get Miggy and a position player from the Fish for LaRoche, Pierre and some cash.

That would be such a spectacularly good deal for the Dodgers that it would easily make up for all of Ned's other mistakes.

That is why I think it will never happen. The Fish are going to want Kemp and/or Kershaw.

2007-11-22 08:06:05
9.   Andrew Shimmin
LaRoche, Pierre, and Powerball tickets would be even better.
2007-11-22 08:06:51
10.   Bumsrap
7 - subsidized Pierre = a Pierre with a better arm and obp?
2007-11-22 08:12:33
11.   Bumsrap
Not that I want any Dodgers connected with Boras, but I wouldn't mind Turkey Day bringing Beltre back to the Dodgers for Pierre and LaRoche instead of Cabrera for too many young players I would enjoy watching play for the Dodgers.
2007-11-22 08:22:15
12.   bhsportsguy
Happy Thanksgiving to all.

1. Marty enjoy the sprouts.
2. Daniel, have fun baking.
3. Bob, your apple pie looks good.
4. Greg Brock, enjoy the day off.

2007-11-22 08:24:16
13.   deburns
Happy Thanksgiving to all. We can be thankful that we still have the young studs (or studs to be) and haven't made any foolish moves (yet). And we are in a position to cater to our obsessions, including the one I'm catering to as I type.
2007-11-22 08:28:20
14.   ChicagoDodger
11 You started your trade scenario with Pierre, a clever way to get "any" Dodger fan to agree with, but LaRoche is one of those young players I would enjoy watching as well. Just dump Pierre, anyway they can! Keep the young kids!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

2007-11-22 08:28:50
15.   Greg Brock
I'm thankful for Law and Order marathons.
2007-11-22 08:38:39
16.   Suffering Bruin
15 I'll be watching. Why? I'm home for the first time, ever. I've got a fever of 101 and that means... well, that means no Thanksgiving for me. I have requested that the wife bring me a small mountain of food.

I'm putting this in bold, folks: Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on this wonderful blog and thanks for contributing to this wonderful blog and Jon, thanks for creating this wonderful blog.

With many thanks...

2007-11-22 08:41:23
17.   Marty
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Everyone be safe out there. My Lab is running up hospital bills again, so have a have a turkey leg for him, I know I will.
2007-11-22 08:42:46
18.   kinbote
I'm thankful we haven't signed Aaron Rowand to a 6 year/$102mil contract . . . yet.
2007-11-22 08:49:55
19.   Sushirabbit
Happy TD, DT.

I got my nap in already. :-)

2007-11-22 08:53:11
20.   ToyCannon
The Clippers are not going to win a lot of games but every once in a while they make a bizarre effort. Denver was just about the hottest team in baseketball, the Clippers who were already playing without Brand and Livy, added Corey Magette to the injured list. Brevin Knight pulled a groin during the game so Sam Cassel who was nursing the Flu had to play, while Cutino Mobley is playing with his own groin problem.

So of coure the Clippers blasted Denver behind Chris Kaman.

Go figure

2007-11-22 08:53:23
21.   Bumsrap
18 - Rowand and his disconcerting batting stance.
2007-11-22 08:53:29
22.   willhite
Happy Thanksgiving all. Sorry to hear about your Lab Marty. We have a Golden Retriever and I'm afraid we're going to be in for some bills soon also.

Labs and Retrievers are the best companions in the world. Worth all the bills and far better teammates than overpaid centerfielders.

2007-11-22 09:00:36
23.   Bumsrap
14 - I included LaRoche because any trade for a third baseman hurts LaRoche's opportunity to play unless he is part of that trade.
2007-11-22 09:11:49
24.   ChicagoDodger
23 I understand. But, are we absolutely certain Cabrera remains a third basemen? Isn't he a left-fielder in waiting? Or a DH in waiting?
2007-11-22 09:13:03
25.   Terry A
16 - My three-year-old has the same temp, so I'm home with him. Only instead of watching L&O marathons, we're watching Word World and (as a sign he's truly sick) Barney.

17 - All the best, Marty.

2007-11-22 09:24:43
26.   GoBears
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. This little community is one of the things I am thankful for. Thanks to Jon especially, but to all the regulars who regularly crack me up 'round these parts as well. I have been too busy to participate much lately, but I think I've read every comment (usually long after they were posted).

This is the first year I've not traveled for the holiday since high school. Most of my family is now in Northern Cal, and I decided a couple years ago that the drive up (and especially back) was not worth it. One year, it took 14 hours to drive from the Bay Area. This year, the NorCal contingent made the same decision. So Mrs. GoBears and I are spending the day with friends. The commute will be to cross Pico Blvd. Good times.

I'm sorry to hear about the pooch, Marty. Mine started my day today by insinuating herself under the covers, plopping her head on the pillow, and snoring in my face until I arose and she could have the whole bed to herself. She takes up a lot of space for a beagle.

2007-11-22 09:26:08
27.   ChicagoDodger
23 My bad. I had Cabrera on the brain when responding. Your trade was for Beltre. In any event, I'd rather keep LaRoche then acquire Beltre. I think LaRoche will be better, and he is alot cheaper! For now.
2007-11-22 09:26:47
28.   Disabled List
8 In the last thread, someone suggested that we could get Miggy and a position player from the Fish for LaRoche, Pierre and some cash.

I think we could get the Marlins to go for this if we threw in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a leprechaun to be named later.

2007-11-22 09:30:55
29.   ChicagoDodger
28 I think we could get the Marlins to go for this if we threw in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and a leprechaun to be named later.

I would do that deal! Get it done Ned!

2007-11-22 09:38:11
30.   KG16
Happy Turkey Day everyone. Traveling this year, for the first time so I've missed my traditional football game for the first time since high school, little strange in that regard.

As for Hunter, I saw it on the crawl on ESPN and was really surprised, didn't think the Angels would be looking that way. Still, probably a good fit for them.

2007-11-22 09:43:25
31.   willhite
Now that Hunter is off the market, a few more teams may be looking at Rowand. Andruw is tied to Boras. What if Ned doesn't get either of these guys? Does that mean if we still have Kemp that he becomes the centerfielder? Does Ned go after Cameron? Does he swallow hard and put JP back in center?
2007-11-22 09:44:02
32.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Greg Brock wasn't visited by three ghosts last night:
1) Miles Standish - Ghost of Thanksgiving Past
2) Pete Carroll - Ghost of Thanskgiving Present
3) Miguel Cabrera - Ghost of Thanksgivings yet to be
2007-11-22 09:49:43
33.   Chuck Churn
I have come around to believing that we are better off passing on Miggy and going for pitching. Santana, Bedard, Snell, Blanton, and Haren are apparently all available for the right exchange. All of the great Dodger teams were built on pitching. Our first three starters are fine but Schmidt may not recover and Loaiza looked terrible last season. Lowe seemed to decline last year, too.
2007-11-22 09:57:20
34.   willhite
33 -

I wonder what it would take to get Snell? I really like him. Not a big fan of Blanton's. Santana and Bedard are both great but I always worry about trading half the team for a pitcher. Much greater injury risk than a position player.

2007-11-22 09:57:42
35.   Lexinthedena
33- If we trade a package involving LaRoche for pitching, then we are stuck with Nomar/Abreu at third next season...unless of course Ned over pays for Scott Rolen, which I wouldn't put past him....
2007-11-22 10:06:25
36.   Chuck Churn
If we opt for pitching and give up on acquiring a third sacker, we can keep LaRoche.
2007-11-22 10:14:44
37.   popup
Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Stan from Tacoma

2007-11-22 10:19:35
38.   Daniel Zappala
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. May you eat lots of good food and have a good time with your family and friends.
2007-11-22 10:31:41
39.   trainwreck
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone at DT.

And Happy Thursday to our international posters.

2007-11-22 10:41:29
40.   Johnson
Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Thanksgiiviing to all!
2007-11-22 11:03:10
41.   Bob Loblaw
I awoke with admiration on my mind:
- Ned has managed to keep our prospects. I kinda feel that if he hasn't traded them yet (Kemp,Kershaw,LaRoche), maybe he won't trade them at all.
- and the Angels stealthiness. Both the Garland and Hunter deals were generally unexpected, and they have also held onto their prospects. But I will be surprised if they don't trade some prospects for either Cabrera or Tejada.

Here's wishing a Happy Thanksgiving to everyone at DodgerThoughts!

2007-11-22 11:16:30
42.   dzzrtRatt
To Jon and to all DTers, Happy Thanksgiving. You're a fun bunch.

I assume none of you will be at Mervyn's tomorrow at 4 a.m.?

2007-11-22 11:20:47
43.   D Money
- Ned has managed to keep our prospects. I kinda feel that if he hasn't traded them yet (Kemp,Kershaw,LaRoche), maybe he won't trade them at all.

we havent even got to the winter meetings yet.... thats when the trades usually start.

and a few more FA probably need to be signed before the trade talks get serious.

2007-11-22 11:27:10
44.   D Money
from ESPN

In our surveys of teams looking for center fielders, Jones was already third on most lists, behind Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand. And that was before they even considered money.

"The big worry on Andruw is, his body is starting to scare people," said an official of one team that went into the winter shopping for center fielders. "You look at the body type, and you wonder: What are you getting? The question we were asking a few months ago was, 'Torii or Andruw?' But now Torii has gone way by him. I go back to bodies and conditioning. And based on that alone, I'd bet on Torii as the guy more likely to give you more productive years than Andruw, even though Andruw is younger."

2007-11-22 11:35:02
45.   Greg Brock
To all of you Dodger fans in Canada...Get back to work.
2007-11-22 11:39:07
46.   das411
Thank you to Jon and Bob and Ken for all of the awesome work they do here at the Toaster...and to Mr. Ned for keeping it interesting!
2007-11-22 11:51:50
47.   ToyCannon
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone including Grinch Brock.

I think I butchered the deviled eggs so hopefully everyone will just be polite and pretend to like them and throw them away in the toilet.

2007-11-22 12:04:44
48.   Daniel Zappala
Best part of Thanksgiving is getting to use your brother-in-law's iPhone.
2007-11-22 12:07:48
49.   Bob Timmermann
I have stumbled across a basketball game between NC State and Rider in Orlando that appears to have a crowd of about 200 people watching it.

Rider is ahead by 9. trainwreck is wondering if the ACC will expel NC State if they lose this game.

2007-11-22 12:16:59
50.   trainwreck
I am busy watching Mississippi St vs UC Irvine.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-22 12:18:36
51.   trainwreck
I am also watching a replay of Adams State vs Arizona.

Lute ain't coming back.

2007-11-22 12:21:54
52.   fanerman
What a nice start to Thanksgiving, seeing Torii Hunger signing with the Angels! Happy Thanksgiving!
2007-11-22 12:53:00
53.   27indigo
I'm definitely thankful Ned can't sign Torii Hunter!
I can't wait to be thankful that Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche, and company will still be here come spring.
2007-11-22 12:55:26
54.   Jason in Canada
Indeed, indeed I am sitting here at work coveting a turkey dinner here in the great white north. I'm actually from the San Fernando valley until 5 years ago when I moved to Canada for my lovely bride.

I'm very thankful for this wonderful blog Jon and all the hilarious, witty folk that make it great. I am also thankful for the 12 rules over on the right side that keep it that way!

Go Dodgers!!

2007-11-22 12:56:33
55.   Strike4
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. My holiday wish is for all remaining turkeys to keep out of the Dodger clubhouse.
2007-11-22 13:01:02
56.   Linkmeister
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

Among other things I'm thankful for, my dog is recovering well from her surgery and I'm happy there's a Dodgers forum like this.

Off to play "Alice's Restaurant." It's a tradition.

2007-11-22 13:02:14
57.   scareduck
17 , 22 - speaking as somebody who had two dogs contract cancer at the same time, I understand what you mean. You write the checks and hope for the best. (Actually, we charge it on Discover and get a 1% rebate because we pay off our balance every month. But the principle's the same.)
2007-11-22 13:07:01
58.   bigcpa
57 At first I thought you were talking about two dog contracts (Hunter & Matthews). That was weird.
2007-11-22 13:08:55
59.   D4P
Happy Thanksgiving from "upstate" New York.

I saw none other than Dick Enberg at the Raleigh-Durham airport this morning. He looks older in person, and was wearing glasses (which I've never seen on him).

2007-11-22 13:26:15
60.   jasonungar07
Happy Turkey Day..Be safe everyone..
2007-11-22 13:26:17
61.   jasonungar07
Happy Turkey Day..Be safe everyone..
2007-11-22 13:35:27
62.   Daniel Zappala
57 But the principal is different.
2007-11-22 13:37:37
63.   Kingmans Performance

I'm in for Mervyn's, but around 9am.

Mom's got the employee discount of 15%
on top of the Black Friday discounts.

See you DT'ers down there.

2007-11-22 13:53:19
64.   old dodger fan
I have a niece who will be in line at Circuit City at 1 am (they open at 5) tomorrow. Ugh!!

Happy Thanksgiving.

2007-11-22 13:58:02
65.   Marty
I have never shopped the Friday after Thanksgiving, and I hope I never do.
2007-11-22 14:00:48
66.   willhite
65 -

I did it once, and it was enough to last me a lifetime.

2007-11-22 14:06:39
67.   StolenMonkey86
64 - George Mason's playing on ESPN2 at 9p ET, so that's not an option for me unless I pass on sleeping.
2007-11-22 14:38:26
68.   scareduck
62 - not knowing what kinds of diseases Link's dogs have, I can't comment. But I can say that Labs get all kinds of ailments, including dysplasia (of the hip and elbow, both of which are usually detected early) and cancer. And yeah, radiation and chemo ain't cheap. But who's a good boy? Ohhh, who's a goood boy? Wanna go for a walk? C'mon!

2007-11-22 14:39:34
69.   Sammy Maudlin
Happy Thanksgiving Folks! I thankful I haven't seen a headline that read "Pedro Feliz signs 6 year 117 million dollar with Dodgers"
2007-11-22 14:52:31
70.   Linkmeister
68 She's a 15-year-old pointer. Here's a picture of her (this event took place about two months ago):

She just had about seven "growths" removed from her skin, and we're waiting for biopsy results on two of them. She seems oblivious to that worry.

2007-11-22 14:54:41
71.   Marty
This time it's pancreatitus. They've got him on intravenous fluids for a couple days. I hope to get him back tomorrow.
2007-11-22 14:54:56
72.   Linkmeister
70 Updating myself: from the time stamp on the photo (I scanned it from a film print) it was July of this year, so four months ago.
2007-11-22 14:56:04
73.   Paul Scott
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Go Cowboys!
2007-11-22 14:56:04
74.   Marty
I can't believe how depressed my other dog is. She has barely gotten off the bed today.
2007-11-22 15:04:19
75.   Daniel Zappala
I've been on several black Friday shopping trips. When our kids were young, and we were poor, I'd get up very early, a list of stores and items all prepared, and then make the rounds as best as I could, calling an audible whenever an item was sold out. It helped to be thinking of the sacrifice being worth it when the kids ripped off the wrapping paper. Still, I'm glad I don't do it any more.
2007-11-22 15:14:56
76.   Greg Brock
Daniel's like the best father ever.

If something was sold out, my parents wrote me a note saying "We'll get it later. Why don't you cry about it, Nancy?"

Well, something to that effect.

2007-11-22 15:54:03
77.   Dodgers49
Twins part ways with Hunter

>> Hunter said that he was "very" close to completing a deal with Chicago. The White Sox offered Hunter a deal around five years, $75 million. The Rangers put a five-year, $75 million dollar deal on the table with a club option for a sixth year in hopes of attracting Hunter to play near his offseason home, which is in Prosper, Texas. And the Royals made a five-year, $75 million offer as well.

The deal that that Hunter eventually agreed to with the Angels was nearly twice what the Twins had offered. <<

## Smith wouldn't get into specifics about possible targets for center field but said that the club will explore the free-agent market and trade options to find a center fielder. ##

2007-11-22 15:58:09
78.   Brian Y
On they have all sorts of trade scenarios with the Dodgers and they all seem to agree that a Pierre/Hu/LaRoche for Bedard and Payton would be fair. Actually they seem genuinely excited to think about that deal since Payton is in the final year at $5M and they take on Pierre with Hu/LaRoche basically being worth Bedard.

I would do that deal and I absolutely love LaRoche and Hu but I think we have depth. Possibly switch out LaRoche with DeWitt and I'd be ecstatic. If only it were true!

2007-11-22 16:07:44
79.   natepurcell

Ive been reading their forum for a bit and they all have this idea that they are going to get Kemp/Kershaw/Laroche for Bedard.

2007-11-22 16:13:04
80.   Brian Y
Here's what I would do if I were GM and of course other GM's were willing.

Trade for Bedard and Payton for DeWitt, Hu, Pierre, and Stults.

Sign Andruw Jones for 1yr $18M with $2M in bonuses so he can jack up his price for next year and we can try for someone else. Then we have a year to see Delwyn and gage if he can play and move Kemp to CF.

Sign Fukudome for 4yrs $32M (if possible)
Sign Kuroda for 5yrs $52M

Trade Loaiza to DET for Nate Robertson

Trade LaRoche, Ethier, Meloan, Elbert, Brazoban, Greg Miller, Robertson for Miguel Cabrera

SP: Penny, Bedard, Billingsley, Lowe, Kuroda

RP: Saito, Broxton, Proctor, Schmidt, Hull/Houlton, Beimel, Kuo

SS Furcal
C Martin
3B Cabrera
CF Jones
1B Loney
RF Kemp
LF Fukudome
2B Abreu

UT D.Young
PH Sweeney
OF Payton
IF Wilson Valdez or FA
C Rene Rivera (maybe?)

2007-11-22 16:14:44
81.   Dodgers49
Why would Barry Bonds name his company after Jeff Kent? :-)

Bonds' Former Friends Set to Testify

>> Bonds made Hoskins his business manager and they launched a company called Kent Collectibles to sell Bonds' memorabilia. <<

2007-11-22 17:28:32
82.   scareduck
70 - old dogs get those. Likely nothing to worry about.
2007-11-22 17:38:46
83.   old dodger fan
Thanks for the dog pics. Hope all goes well. We got a mixed lab from the shelter 2 years ago and he is a real blessing to our family.

I hope everyone here is having a great Thanksgiving and able to reflect on all the good things in our lives.

2007-11-22 19:46:49
84.   Sam DC
If you haven't watched Tom 'n Jerry in a while, you'd be surprised just how good it is.

(Yeah, my kids are asleep. What of it?)

2007-11-22 20:11:07
85.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA's Rose Bowl hopes are still alive!

In Osaar we trust!

(Note: suspension of disbelief is required. Offer void in California and Oregon.)

2007-11-22 20:14:04
86.   63Dodger
We drove out to Joshua Tree, sat on the rocks and ate turkey sandwiches while watching all the rock climbers. First non-traditional Thanksgiving, and while I love all the cooking and big spread, this was so relaxing! I'm thankful for national parks, desert beauty, the Dodgers, and this blog. Thanks Jon and everyone who bleeds blue!
2007-11-22 20:50:53
87.   Disabled List
Brined turkey roasted in rosemary and sage + maple sausage stuffing + homemade pumpkin pie and vanilla ice cream = DL in a blissful food coma.

I'm living up to my DT handle tonight. I'm on the couch and not moving for the rest of the night unless the house is on fire. Even then, I'll wait for the fire department to order me out.

Hope everyone else is having a happy and satisfying thanksgiving.

2007-11-22 22:07:09
88.   Jon Weisman
Ken Levine has a post about Jan Smithers. He went to Taft with her. He mentions her falling on hard times. Googlenewsing reveals a sad story if true.
2007-11-22 22:19:48
89.   Andrew Shimmin
The PR Inside story had a big honking picture of Barbra Streisand, whom they helpfully explained is the wife of Smithers' ex-husband. So, of course the picture would be of her.
2007-11-22 23:37:47
90.   Dodgers49
Hunter probably not the last piece

>> By signing Hunter, the Angels could more easily absorb the loss of hard-hitting second baseman Howie Kendrick, whom the Marlins are insisting be part of a trade with the Angels for Cabrera. Florida would also like catcher Jeff Mathis, pitching prospect Nick Adenhart and one of the Angels' three young starters, Ervin Santana, Jered Weaver or Joe Saunders. <<

2007-11-23 03:23:08
91.   Chuck Churn
My completely subjective ranking of Dodger trade names, from least expendable to most expandable:


Note: Other names have been mentioned in posts as potential trade bait, like Stults, Houlton, and others. But I would classify these guys as potential roster cuts with no real trade value, despite our wishful thinking.

And my completely subjective ranking of trade target names, in descending order, starting with best pick up:


Posters might quibble with these rankings but the key for Ned will be to leave the top names on the first list alone while acquiring players from the second list (preferably, from the top).

2007-11-23 04:34:47
92.   Chuck Churn
Apologies. In first paragraph, meant to say "least expendable to most expendable."

"Expandable" would describe girth of Miggy and Blanton.

2007-11-23 06:45:18
93.   gpellamjr
91 Is Tejada even good anymore?
2007-11-23 07:33:34
94.   Chuck Churn
Good question. That is why I have ranked him near the bottom.
2007-11-23 07:36:12
95.   Bumsrap
If this team cannot win, where would anyone make a change?

C - martin
1b - Loney
2b - Kent/Abreu
3b - Nomar/LaRoche
ss - Furcal/Hu
lf - Peirre/Young
cf - Kemp/Repko
rf - Ethier/Kemp

The first place I would try to tweak is 2b by trading for Ian Kinsler. Perhaps Kent and Abreu for Kinsler.

Left field would be my next place to tweak. Maybe trying to get Jason Bay in exchange for Pierre, Young/Ethier, and a pitcher.

2007-11-23 08:06:35
96.   Ken Noe
It's November 23. Do you know where your second baseman is? I'm starting to wonder if Kent is playing chicken--waiting to see if Colletti makes the trades Kent wants before he announces a comeback.
2007-11-23 08:15:33
97.   CanuckDodger
95 -- I think both of those ideas are quite bad. Kent will probably have another year like his last, so he will be better offensively than Kinsler, and we'll just have to put up with the bad defense for one more season. Come 2009, I believe Abreu is going to hit for a better average than Kinsler year in and year out, but won't walk as much, the power will be about the same (Kinsler's Arlington HR total is obviously inflated), and Abreu's defense will be superior. I wouldn't trade Abreu for Kinsler straight up. As for Jason Bay, forget that. Ethier's 2007 was much better than Bay's, and Ethier is just entering his prime mid-20's years, while Bay's have just ended. I pegged Bay years ago as a guy whose productive years might not last long, as he sort of fluked into prospecthood, and he may now be past his peak.

The only thing we should do with the offense is get rid of Pierre in a trade, even if we eat a lot of money and get nothing of value in return, and sign Rowand or Jones to play CF. Playing LaRoche and benching Nomar at 3B would also be good, but that just takes the will to do it rather than a transaction.

2007-11-23 08:16:32
98.   Duranimal
I am thankful we did not sign Hunter. The 2008 Bill James book has Hunter's runs created per 9 innings at 5.44. Kemp's is 7.06. Kemp's is actually higher than Beltran's 6.73. Ned, please don't feel like you have to make a move to make a move!

Also, although there's lots of talk about a busy off season with trades, it seems to me that one reason there's so few trades these days is that GMs know they can get fired for a bad trade. However, a bad free agent signing just don't have the same stigma.

2007-11-23 08:52:53
99.   Bluebleeder87
If anything it gets him off our hands (Hunter) his defense is pretty solid but I rather the Dodgers go after A.Jones. It's the first I've heard of the news so I'm very very happy the Angels snagged him from us.
2007-11-23 08:54:40
100.   Bluebleeder87

Once again, great write up Canuck.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-23 09:04:15
101.   greenchris
80 - Concept is good, I would make 2 changes
1) I don't think there's a shot in hell that we could get Miggy without giving up Kemp and Billingley or Kershaw.

2) Sign Rowand instead of A. Jones since any deal involving Miggy is most likely going to include Kemp.

I prefer Bedard rather than Johan because the asking price should be less. I am equally interested in Haren.

We're probably stuck with Loaiza for the next year as well.

2007-11-23 09:23:37
102.   gpellamjr
101 I don't understand #2. I don't understand what Kemp's beind traded has to do with choosing Rowand over Jones.
2007-11-23 09:38:36
103.   sincitydodger
Does anybody know how Joe Kennedy died?
2007-11-23 09:57:28
104.   underdog
88 Wow, at first I misread one of the stories about Smithers. Thought that one of my first childhood TV crushes (Bailey Quarters) was the mom of now-hot actor Josh Brolin, but she was wife before Josh's mom, and the mother to Josh's half-sister. Anyway, I feel for her. Hope she recovers.

Obscure movie to look for: Where the Lilies Bloom, with Smithers and Harry Dean Stanton, 1974.


Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving and is properly supplied with enough Zantac to get them through today.

2007-11-23 10:00:11
105.   Vishal
103 wow, i didn't know. he had an aneurysm, apparently.
2007-11-23 10:00:40
106.   Bob Timmermann
He just passed away today so no one knows yet. Presumably an autopsy will be performed.
2007-11-23 10:07:32
107.   Bluebleeder87
I have never shopped the Friday after Thanksgiving, and I hope I never do.

I tride it once (at Fry's). I parked the car, got of the car looked at the line jumped back in my car drove back home, I've never tride it again since. Those people who shop today are troopers.

2007-11-23 10:12:55
108.   underdog
Wow, when you said Joe Kennedy above I thought you were talking about the Kennedy family patriarch, not the young pitcher! Just saw the Griddle link. Yikes, how awful. Weren't the Dodgers looking into trading for him last year...? Anyway, my heart goes out to his family.
2007-11-23 10:14:52
109.   Bluebleeder87

Wikipedia says he passed away at home with his family so I'm thinking he was already ill no? sad news non the less & makes you think of how thankful we should be for being healthy. I hope everybody had a great thanksgiving by the way.

2007-11-23 10:15:36
110.   underdog
Wow, I say "wow" a lot apparently. I need to watch less Scooby Doo or something.
2007-11-23 10:16:40
111.   underdog
109 He could've been home with his family because it was Thanksgiving, though. Either way, it's pretty scary to think of a 28-yr old guy dropping dead. Definitely does make one appreciate every day just thinking about it...
2007-11-23 10:37:05
112.   Dodgers49
>> "The cause of death is unknown at this time," said Kennedy's agent, Damon Lapa. "The best guess at this point is either a heart attack or a brain aneurysm. The way he died was sudden. There is no reasonable explanation for what happened." <<

2007-11-23 10:38:07
113.   Bumsrap
97 - We look at Kent with different perspectives. You like what he brings to the plate and I don't like what he brings to the team. I would rather Kent not be with the Dodgers next year and that is part of why I included Kent with Abreu for Kinsler.

I like Abreu alot but and even with Kinsler hitting being much better at home than on the road I think he will add more than what Abreu will add.

Bay was a suggestion because it seems that Pierre will play and Ethier will sit unless Pierre is traded. So my thinking is that Bay would be preferable over Pierre in left.

2007-11-23 10:39:58
114.   Marty
Well, the Labrador came home this morning. He looks pretty good and is happy to be home. We'll see how he does with his first meal. My other dog is ecstatic.
2007-11-23 10:41:08
115.   Bluebleeder87

it sure does underdog. I had one of the better thanksgiving in recent memory, I went to church which made my mom absolutely happy which in turn made me very happy that she was happy. Plus I wasn't drunk for the first time in a very long time for a holiday. it's turning out to be an o.k year.

2007-11-23 10:42:44
116.   Bumsrap
113 - I like Abreu alot but and even with Kinsler hitting being much better at home than on the road I think he will add more than what Abreu will add.


I like Abreu and I realize Kinsler hits better at home than he does on the road. I just think Kinsler will help the Dodgers win sooner than will Abreu.

2007-11-23 11:00:19
117.   natepurcell

So why would the Rangers do that?

2007-11-23 11:11:03
118.   dzzrtRatt
99 The Angels snagged Hunter from Texas, Chicago and Kansas City. Ned never made an offer for him. Hunter had made it public he was making up his mind and would decide by early next week, so if Ned hadn't put an offer on the table yet, likely he wasn't planning to. (Unless -- like Steve Martin said to the IRS -- he "forgot.")

97 Y'know...that's the bold, career-saving move Ned should really make. Dump Pierre for what he can get for him, and eat as much of the contract as necessary. Is there any doubt the press -- not just stat-geek fans, but the Plaschkes and Rosenthals and ESPN types, too -- would praise the move? At this point, the conventional wisdom is that Pierre is a liability. "Cut your losses," is an admired management capability. Assume he'd have to eat $24 million of Pierre's contract, and would get almost nothing back. If he does better than that, he'll have had a good day.

At that point, Ned should take modest steps to fill the last OF slot, assuming Kemp and Ethier are locks. Invite Bernie Williams and Steve Finley to camp with minor-league contracts, and let Delwyn Young compete with them. Obviously, Rowand or Jones would be better, but would they be worth the years and the money? Given the new precedent set by Hunter's crazy deal, probably not. But Ned can sniff around them, I wouldn't mind having them.

What would Kent do? Oh maybe he'd throw a hissy fit and retire, but I doubt it. He'll still have Nomar and Lowe to talk to about how youth is ruining everything.

The big target out there I'd like to see Ned pursue is Bedard. I wouldn't give up Kemp or any other major league Dodger for him, but I would listen to any other package of prospects. McDonald/Elbert/Hu/Pierre + $24 mil would be a persuasive package, I'd have to think.

2007-11-23 11:27:28
119.   Bluebleeder87
Canuck says Abreu's defense is far more superior than Kinsler. I haven't looked at the #'s but is Kinsler patient at the plate or something? for my taste I'd keep Abreu.
2007-11-23 11:32:45
120.   Bluebleeder87
one more thing. I value OB% as well but I'm just sick of watching Kent manning 2nd base.
2007-11-23 11:34:44
121.   Bumsrap
117 So why would the Rangers do that?
It is a conversation starter between the Dodgers and Texas. Where that would lead if anywhere is beyond my guess. Why would anybody do anything?
2007-11-23 11:34:59
122.   willhite
118 -

Hunter - weren't there some reports that he had a meeting scheduled with Ned for this weekend? Nobody ever contradicted that report, but my guess is that he would rather stay in the AL and the Angels offer was enough to make him jump right away.

Agree with everything else you propose except inviting Williams or Finley to ST. I, for one, would prefer Repko to either of those guys and my guess is that there are others out there who might be better choices than any of the above.

2007-11-23 12:33:01
123.   bigcpa
The Rangers are not going to offer Jones a multi-year deal. My hope is that the White Sox sign Rowand since he's still very popular there. Then who could outbid us for Jones? SF? SD?
2007-11-23 12:44:25
124.   regfairfield
122 It can't hurt. We've only got five viable outfielders right now in the organization, so starting Repko in the minors in favor of a worse option gives us some depth when someone gets hurt.
2007-11-23 12:48:12
125.   imperabo
118 Ned would still look like a moron cutting his loses on Pierre when the player almost exactly duplicated his last 2 seasons going into this long term contract. If Ned's just worried about his career he's better off keeping Pierre. The Dodgers can still win with him and then most people will say Pierre is a spark plug and the heart and soul of a scrappy team. If they drop Pierre and win with the kids people will say the team won despite Ned's stupidity.
2007-11-23 12:51:39
126.   Bluebleeder87
Here is a fun fact. The guy next to my cubicle (Bob Smith) his daughter (Julie Smith) is an olympic gold medalist for team USA softball (1996). She is now the head coach over at La Verne University.
2007-11-23 12:56:51
127.   overkill94
I think Finley and Bernie have proven that they have absolutely nothing left in the tank. I'd rather just let Delwyn sink or swim than even entertain letting those guys get significant at-bats.

The Reds are apparently putting out feelers on Josh Hamilton, anybody think he's worth the risk? He's a bit of a boom or bust type due to his injury problems and lack of long-term track record, but if last year was for real - watch out. I'm wondering if something like McDonald/Meloan would be enough to get it done.

2007-11-23 13:00:16
128.   MC Safety
127 He showed some nice pop when he wasnt imitating Jason Giambi with the gastroentitus (???) and other various ailments.
2007-11-23 13:01:05
129.   68elcamino427
DH/NO DH. Is there any sentiment afoot for the National Leauge to adopt the DH? Recent results show that the NL may be at an offensive/competitive disadvantage (All Star Game/World Series results).
The Dodgers are competeing to win. The Dodgers are also competeing with the Angels for fan attention (although at the present time both teams are doing well in that regard). For example, take a player like David Ortiz. Would he have been as succesful last year playing in the NL? Miguel Cabrera looks like he is another Ortiz in the making. Big Guy, Great hitter, sloppy body/attitude. Miggy is eating his way off of 3rd base. Left Field? Doesn't the outfield require above average speed? Miggy could play 1st base in the NL, but he may not be able to consistently bend over and stretch to scoop up the wild low throws. An AL team like the Angels can DH Miggy and be very happy with the arrangement. Wouldn't it be great if the Dodgers had this same offensive flexibility?
2007-11-23 13:23:47
130.   regfairfield
127 Probably not realistic due to the fact that they'd want the world for him and he's got too much baggage to give that up. Still, from what I've seen of him he's got more pure talent than almost anyone in the league.
2007-11-23 13:24:41
131.   regfairfield
127 Yeah, Finley and Bernie aren't options I would be too happy with. We need to get a NRI or someone like Cory Sullivan in the organization though.
2007-11-23 13:25:41
132.   overkill94
128 He may still be able to hit a little (though his OPS hasn't been over .800 since 2002), but his arm is even weaker than Pierre's at this point so he's a liability in the outfield.
2007-11-23 13:26:59
133.   68elcamino427
125 Is it true that Ned is in the last year of his contract?
We watched so many runners turn singles into doubles last year on balls hit to center (JP) and left (Gonzo).
2007-11-23 13:28:50
134.   overkill94
130 That's the problem with Hamilton - he's too good to let go for lesser talent, but too risky to truly rely on long-term. That's why my offer was in the mid-range between the two. If it could somehow be know that he would stay relatively healthy and continue producing, it would probably cost us Kershaw. If the Reds were hoping to unload him while they can assuming his long-term outlook isn't good, we'd probably only have to give up something like Elbert and Dewitt.
2007-11-23 13:30:04
135.   overkill94
131 With the Angels' sudden glut of outfielders, how hard would it be to pry Juan Rivera away? Pretty good pop, still fairly young, and only looks like their 5th outfielder at this point.
2007-11-23 13:34:54
136.   Vishal
i find AL baseball so much more boring. no DH, thanks. i love watching pitchers who can actually hit.
2007-11-23 13:37:18
137.   68elcamino427
135 That's a great point. It's also a reason that Rivera might be headed to the Fish. What's Rivera scheduled to make next year?
2007-11-23 13:38:33
138.   68elcamino427
136 Is that an oxymoron?
2007-11-23 13:43:52
139.   silverwidow
Is it true that Ned is in the last year of his contract?

No. He's signed through 2009.

2007-11-23 13:44:44
140.   overkill94
137 Looks like 2008 will be his last year of arbitration. Last year he made a little over 2 million, but considering last year was pretty much a lost year for him, I doubt he'll make any more than $3M this year.
2007-11-23 13:46:14
141.   GMac In The 909
126 In my best Ted Mosby: architect, it's the University of La Verne. Way back in the day, it was La Verne College.

Brought to you by ULV c/o 2000.

2007-11-23 13:46:23
142.   Vishal
138 not according to the likes of dontrelle willis, livan hernandez, and brad penny.
2007-11-23 13:49:03
143.   overkill94
137 Willits seems like a more likely target for the Marlins considering they need a center fielder and would prefer to have a guy who they can control for more than one year.

Assuming the Angels end up with 5 quality outfielders (whether they don't end up trading for Cabrera or for some reason don't include an outfielder in the deal), I doubt it would take more than someone like Dewitt to get Rivera. Then if the Dodgers could just plain unload Pierre, they would be left with an outfield of River/Kemp/Ethier with Repko and D. Young backing up.

2007-11-23 13:49:26
144.   regfairfield
135 I'd rather go after Willits. Rivera is too good to sit on our bench, and would probably take more to pry away.
2007-11-23 13:53:50
145.   68elcamino427
142 Thats a great point.
What about the other pitchers that have a difficult time even bunting?
Also, as a related link to 140 , what will the Angel batting order look like if they can land Miggy?
2007-11-23 13:57:14
146.   68elcamino427
143 That plan looks good. Are the Angels so flush that they can include both Willits and Rivera?
2007-11-23 14:12:22
147.   delias man
141 - I was going to say the same thing C/O 2001
2007-11-23 14:16:05
148.   Dodgers49
133 125 Is it true that Ned is in the last year of his contract?

The reports said it was a five year deal. But, remember, DePo also signed for five years. In reality, when you work for Frank McCourt you're always in the last year of your contract. :-)

2007-11-23 14:20:40
149.   silverwidow
148 It was a four year deal (2006-2009).
2007-11-23 14:24:36
150.   Dodgers49
145 Also, as a related link to 140 , what will the Angel batting order look like if they can land Miggy?

>> But they would part with Kendrick if he helped net Cabrera, a 24-year-old third baseman who is one of the game's premier power hitters, having averaged 31 homers and 115 RBIs for four years.

Third baseman Chone Figgins would move to second base, and the Angels' lineup would look something like this: Figgins, Gary Matthews Jr., Vladimir Guerrero, Cabrera, Garret Anderson, Hunter, Casey Kotchman, Mike Napoli and Erick Aybar.

That's a lineup filled with power, speed and athleticism, one that, combined with a deep rotation and solid bullpen, should contend for a World Series championship. <<

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-23 14:28:48
151.   Dodgers49
149 148 It was a four year deal (2006-2009).

Okay. I was working from memory. Which isn't always a good idea in my case. :-)

2007-11-23 14:30:35
152.   Chuck Churn
The more I think about trading for Josh Hamilton, the better it sounds. Remember, he is a center fielder. He hit 19 dingers in just 90 games last season. I like him a lot better than Jones, who had a terrible year in 07.

Imagine an outfield of Kemp, Hamilton, and Ethier, with Pierre either traded or coming off the bench. That is an outfield that might stay together for many years.

It seems to me that Hamilton could be had without including Kemp, Kershaw or Loney in the bargain.

2007-11-23 14:32:21
153.   regfairfield
152 He's also injury prone and a recovering drug addict. Very good chance you get absolutely nothing out of the deal too.
2007-11-23 14:35:47
154.   dzzrtRatt
Rivera's a good idea.

I'm not thinking of a fourth OF. We need a third OF if we're shipping Pierre off to Baltimore or Timbuktu. Repko ought to get a chance. I only threw Finley and Williams in there because I had too much turkey last night and my brain couldn't come up with somebody else; but Rivera is pretty good.

The priorities IMO:

Get Pierre off the roster, so Ethier and Kemp don't ever have to sit to make way for him. The idea of hiring another CF, moving Pierre to LF and leaving Kemp and Ethier to share RF has to be killed in the cradle. I have to think Pierre has enough ability to be worth $5 mill/year for somebody if we pay the rest. Especially for an AL team that could bat him 9th, the lineup spot that God made for him.

Get Bedard. Penny/Billingsley/Bedard/Lowe/Schmidt or McDonald is a killer rotation.

Find a CF who can catch and throw. If we put Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, Furcal, Kent, Martin and Ethier out there, along with the killer rotation above and a good bullpen, we won't need him to be a great offensive threat. An 8th place batter is fine.

Bedard will cost us some depth, plus maybe an heir apparent or two like Hu or Meloan. But Santana or MCAB will cost us Kemp and Kershaw, and we shouldn't go there.

2007-11-23 14:38:15
155.   bigcpa
F. Cordero gets 4 yrs/$46M from the Reds.
2007-11-23 14:38:35
156.   fiddlestick
ESPN is reporting the Reds are giving Francisco Cordero 4 years/$46M.

Unbelievable. Yet totally believable.

"Stand Pat" looks better and better every day.

2007-11-23 14:50:49
157.   nofatmike
142 "not according to the likes of dontrelle willis, livan hernandez, and brad penny."

Micah Owings waves and says hello.

2007-11-23 14:55:55
158.   bigcpa
154 I would expect Baltimore to ask for Kershaw in return for Bedard and that could make sense for both sides. Bedard has 3 years before FA I believe. Maybe they'd want Hu as Tejada's replacement.
2007-11-23 14:58:27
159.   Chuck Churn
Hamilton and Snell look like cheaper and better trade targets. Could we get both without giving up Kemp, Kershaw, or Loney? I would happily part with any combination of Abreu, Hu, MacDonald, DeJesus, DeWitt, Elbert, and Meloan to get those two.

True, Hamilton is a recovering drug addict. But the Commissioner's Office has scrutinized him closely. As far as I know, he remains clean. The concern is the damage he has done to his body heretofore. That concern is legitimate.

But we ought to be at least as concerned about the damage, though a different kind, that Miggy is currently doing to his body. He may be Venezulean but he eats like a fat American.

2007-11-23 14:59:01
160.   68elcamino427
154 Yes, Yes, Yes! The question is, why are the O's eager to move Bedard?
2007-11-23 15:01:19
161.   68elcamino427
159 Re;Miggy. It looks like his role model is David Ortiz.
2007-11-23 15:11:11
162.   Sub4Era
11.5 mil for Cordero.. 1 mil for Saito. Thank god we have had the blessed closer/catcher gene the last decade or so.
2007-11-23 15:11:12
163.   Kevin Lewis
I'm getting all giddy about the possibilities with the Hunter deal to the Angels. If we can shed ourselves of Pierre, I will be buying a bigger ticket package this year.
2007-11-23 15:19:51
164.   Dodgers49
160 154 Yes, Yes, Yes! The question is, why are the O's eager to move Bedard?

O's prefer Bedard extension over trade

>> Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail won't trade Bedard without first determining what it would take to sign him to a contract extension, according to a report published on Thursday in the Baltimore Sun. MacPhail is set to begin conversations with Bedard's agent before next month's Winter Meetings begin.

Bedard, 28, finished the 2007 season with a 13-5 record, a 3.16 ERA and 221 strikeouts despite missing an entire month with a strained right oblique. His current contract runs through 2009, and an extension would require the Orioles to offer significantly more money per year than the $3.4 million Bedard made in 2007. <<

2007-11-23 15:39:10
165.   68elcamino427
164 Read the O's Mailbag. His stats look like Billingsley's, but he's a lefty. WOW.
I would rather have this guy than Miggy, if Miggy would stay in shape.
2007-11-23 15:46:59
166.   Bluebleeder87

I was watching him in action ( archives) he looks pretty darn good. Would you trade him for Kemp though?

2007-11-23 15:59:34
167.   68elcamino427
166 No, a bird in the hand is worth ....
We have Kemp, who may wind up being better than Miggy. It looks like we both recognize that it will take quite a bit to pry away Bedard. The O's GM is equipped with generations of experience.
2007-11-23 16:06:07
168.   Bob Timmermann
Someone take the sharp objects out of CajunDodger's house.

Arkansas 50, LSU 48 in 3 OT.

2007-11-23 16:07:34
169.   68elcamino427
LSU GO FOR TWO! It had a certain ring. Too bad for LSU and all of their fans.
2007-11-23 16:10:09
170.   trainwreck
What a great game.

I hope McFadden is in Silver and Black next year.

2007-11-23 16:11:34
171.   Daniel Zappala
CajunDodger: My condolences. At least your QB was healthy so you had a decent shot at it.

The BCS is so arbitrary. Who's to say that an LSU team, with two 3OT losses, is worse than Kansas, just because Kansas is undefeated with a relatively weak schedule? There is no proper way to compare teams that don't play comparable schedules.

At this point, we're looking at Kansas/Missouri winner versus West Virginia or Ohio State? Not very exciting. I'd rather see LSU versus USC.

2007-11-23 16:14:37
172.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Kansas or Missouri will beat Oklahoma. So the BCS title game will probably have Ohio State and West Virginia.

USC will get a BCS bowl of some kind unless they lose to UCLA. And I think USC's chances of losing to this year's UCLA squad are far more remote than they were last year.

2007-11-23 16:15:16
173.   68elcamino427
171 Maybe that will be arranged. They certainly pulled some strings when USC went to the Orange Bowl.
2007-11-23 16:22:35
174.   Michael D
Regarding Cordero, I hate Colletti and want him gone as much as most of the cool kids around here, but there are clearly worse GM's out there. I mentioned this in the last post but it was sort of LATed so I'll mention it again here. At least Colletti so far hasn't given any relievers any ridiculous contracts. A freaking reliever just got more money than Juan Pierre for one less year.
2007-11-23 16:23:22
175.   Linkmeister
Good grief. I've been so discombulated with the kitchen floor refinishing today I completely forgot there were football games, beyond UH-Boise State in a couple of hours.
2007-11-23 16:24:49
176.   Bob Timmermann
LSU is still going to play in the SEC championship game. If they win that, they will go to the Sugar Bowl. USC could get an at large bid to the Sugar Bowl, but I don't think that bowl will pick high enough.

USC is more likely headed for the Rose or Fiesta Bowl.

2007-11-23 16:26:49
177.   old dodger fan
171 There is no proper way to compare teams that don't play comparable schedules.
Well, there is this thing called a playoff that they do in Div II and Div III. Works remarkably well.
2007-11-23 16:28:37
178.   Bob Timmermann
And nobody ever complains that the baseball playoffs don't recognize the best team.
2007-11-23 16:32:28
179.   bhsportsguy
171 I don't hate Ned and while I know you are using the word in a non-personal way (more towards the moves/non-moves he makes), I still think its a loaded word to use.
2007-11-23 16:33:10
180.   Bob Timmermann
I'll be missing the BSU-'Bows game as bhsportsguy and I will be taking in the ancient rivalry in hoops between UCLA and Yale.
2007-11-23 16:37:56
181.   68elcamino427
179 -171 Disagree, not like, but hate and disrespect are very powerful and very negative .... a very vicious cycle.
2007-11-23 16:41:19
182.   68elcamino427
178 I'll bet you recall with a certain fondness some of those great one game playoff games that the Dodgers have participated in.
2007-11-23 16:42:32
183.   old dodger fan
182 I remember a 3 game playoff in 1962.
2007-11-23 16:43:16
184.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder what Bob's opinion of Ned is. I'm sure he was a HomeDepo fan for sure or no?
2007-11-23 16:45:05
185.   68elcamino427
183 Yeah, Russ Ortiz's old team. As you can see that moment seems like only one game to me.
2007-11-23 16:48:20
186.   old dodger fan
Nice article on free agent pitching options available at "6-4-2".

2007-11-23 16:58:23
187.   68elcamino427
186 Livan for the #5 starter?
2007-11-23 16:58:42
188.   Bluebleeder87
I'd take my chances with Randy Wolf in the back end of our rotation, why not, I really feel he'll be the surprise of '08.
2007-11-23 17:00:22
189.   Daniel Zappala
177 That's where I was going.

178 At least in baseball, the best teams get a chance to play in a playoff system, and we have a good way of determining who are the best teams over the course of the season. I'm not sure we know that at the end of the college football season.

2007-11-23 17:03:30
190.   68elcamino427
I really like Randy Wolf. He should be signed, if he would be happy with the role of a long guy out of the bullpen/starter. It seems unlikely that we will be able to count on him for 140 innings or more though.
2007-11-23 17:08:52
191.   old dodger fan
190 Wolf has pitched a total of 230 innings in the past 3 years. If he could pitch 200 next year he would be a bargain but that is a big if.

Maybe he could stay healthy long enough for Schmidt to get healthy. In my mind Schmidt is really the big question going forward. If he is OK then I think our pitching will be fine. If he isn't then we have some big questions about the 4/5 slot.

2007-11-23 17:08:59
192.   Bluebleeder87
Bartolo Colon would be nice also but I think he'd be to expensive $$ a gamble.
2007-11-23 17:15:07
193.   Humma Kavula
Just resurfacing from New Daddydom to ask:

Has there been any discussion of Kurt Streeter's column in today's dog trainer?

Because even as the L.A. Times spirals down its slippery chute into ever-lower depths, this piece represents a new low in journalistic endeavor.

2007-11-23 17:15:58
194.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not hear to talk about the past...
2007-11-23 17:17:06
195.   Bob Timmermann
For starters:

2007-11-23 17:17:27
196.   CajunDodger
168 171
That was just painful. You know what though, talant only takes you so far. We had more talent on the field than any team this year, but it was always something: penalties, injuries (which everyone has to deal with), and everyone wanting to knock you off. All you USC guys may be used to every team gameplanning for you a year in advance, but this is new to me after rooting for them throughout the '90s.

This team had real trouble with dynamic offensive individuals. It makes me think that we could beat a team like USC, but would have struggled with Dixon and Oregon.

I just want to stick sharp things in my eyes.

If we trade Kemp/Kershaw for nothing, the diameter of the sharp things will simply increase...

2007-11-23 17:22:58
197.   Bob Timmermann
I'm a UCLA fan, teams don't gameplan for the Bruins more than 3 days in advance.
2007-11-23 17:27:51
198.   68elcamino427
2007-11-23 17:29:03
199.   trainwreck
Is it even necessary to gameplan against the Bruins? Has anything changed over the last five years for the better?
2007-11-23 17:31:39
200.   Daniel Zappala
193 Truly awful article. I found myself thinking of all the ways it could be skewered on FJM before I mentally crumpled it up and moved on with life.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-11-23 17:40:49
201.   68elcamino427
200 -193 Just a tennis whiz from NorCal trying to make it out of the inner city and into the big city.
2007-11-23 17:41:43
202.   Bob Timmermann
Surprisingly not as many advertisers would want to pay for that game. Nor would people all that interested in watching it outside of Louisiana and Southern California.

Breach of contract is also not a fun thing to deal with.

2007-11-23 17:48:47
203.   CajunDodger
I also will be abandoning my "new positive outlook" for a few days that I spoke about in the previous thread.

Until I am over the loss (minimum of 72 hours) I will be expecting Ned to trade a package of Billingsley/Kershaw/Kemp to the Cubs for Ryan Theriot and Matt Murton.

Shortly thereafter we will give Mattingly, DeWitt, and Delwyn Young for Reggie Willits. We will then sign Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse in twin 6-year deals for $72 mil each.

2007-11-23 17:49:10
204.   68elcamino427
202 Yeah, that contract business can get a little sticky. Back to the at large dream.
2007-11-23 17:58:55
205.   Chuck Churn
USC football fans, please get over it. You choked this year. You lost to a glorified club team, Stanford (I can say that -- I'm a Stanford alum).

The BCS Bowl will be exciting. West Virginia has Pat White, a dynamic running QB; Steve Slaton, a slashing runner; and a big, bruising FB to open up holes for them. WVU is what USC wishes it could be.

2007-11-23 17:59:57
206.   68elcamino427
191 Jason is a really big question.
Attains age 34 this Jan 2008.
1,978 carrear innings.
2002,2003,2004,2005,2006 - 996 innings.
2007 25 innings and surgery to repair a "major tear" in the cartilige of his throwing shoulder.
Jason has the heart of a lion, but it would seem more realistic to have him performing at a major leauge level in spring training 2009.
2007-11-23 18:02:14
207.   Daniel Zappala
205 Actually, I'm not a USC football fan, I just like good football games.

203 What's the point of a positive attitude if you abandon it immediately? I'll counteract that with my opinion that Ned will trade Pierre and Hendrickson for Miguel Cabrera.

2007-11-23 18:02:56
208.   68elcamino427
205 Your message has a bitter ring to it.
I like/respect your coach though.
Says whats on his mind and gets it done.
2007-11-23 18:11:41
209.   CajunDodger
Hopefully your positive mojo will carry me through the next 72 hours. I have been through this before and I will be fine on Sunday.

I will be positive again. Until then, Daniel, carry the torch.

2007-11-23 18:17:57
210.   Penarol1916
207. If you like good football games, then how is a potential West Virginia-Missouri game not palatable? Have you seen how those teams carve up the opposition? I just think most college football fans so completely downgrade teams that they don't watch very often that they aren't excited to see them play. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a very good game.
2007-11-23 18:20:11
211.   Kingmans Performance

"WVU is what USC wishes it could be."

An antiquated 20th century offensive game plan versus a professional football program that recruits, develops and markets future All-Pro's for the NFL?

2007-11-23 18:28:09
212.   Marty
I'm a USC fan who's willing to admit they choked this year. They certainly don't deserve to be in the championship game.

That doesn't mean I don't think they'd chew WVU up and spit them out though :)

2007-11-23 19:05:06
213.   Bob Timmermann
One of the paradoxes of American sports is that people complain that the same teams win every year. Until the traditional winners lose and someone else wins. Then those championships are a sign that something is wrong.
2007-11-23 19:13:03
214.   Marty
I think that may be called Plaschke's Paradox.
2007-11-23 19:15:37
215.   68elcamino427
Does that mean if that enough people think that something's wrong, then the Dodgers will win a Championship?
2007-11-23 19:19:29
216.   Chuck Churn
208 -- "bitter ring to it." What am I bitter about? My glorified club team using its second-string QB to beat a USC squad described before the game as perhaps the best college team in history?

211 -- "antiquated 20th century offense"? It is a unique spread offense that brings coaches across America to Morgantown, West Virginia to learn its mechanics from Coach Rodriguez.

But your description of USC football is spot on. USC is a world-class university with high admission standards but it recruits the equivalent of ringers to play for its football team. USC is happy to admit athletes who satisfy minimum NCAA academic standards. When even those standards aren't satisfied, they patiently await the athlete's extra year of boning up at some post-secondary prep school designed especially for him. It is all a massive scam to produce NFL-caliber players. Degrees, courses, studies, etc. are mere distractions.

Now that does make me bitter!

2007-11-23 19:19:52
217.   Bob Timmermann
A perfect name.

The desire to not see a traditional power win does not apply to your own favorite team. Then you are just a knowledgeable fan who appreciates the subtleties of the game.

2007-11-23 19:40:51
218.   68elcamino427
216 Does this relate to Ty and Washington in any way?
2007-11-23 19:45:07
219.   68elcamino427
217 OK, I'm resigned to a sobfest with Plaschke then?
2007-11-23 19:47:28
220.   das411
Ahhhhh did anybody else on here watch the perfect Black Friday movie, the perennial holiday classic JINGLEALLDEWAY!!! ?
2007-11-23 22:06:51
221.   Linkmeister
Ahem. UH 39, BSU 27. UH wins its first WAC title without sharing it with any other team.

There were six lead changes during the game.

2007-11-23 22:17:13
222.   Sam DC
I was thinking that there was no good reason for me to be up at this hour.

But then I came across the prospect of Miami (OH) beating USC . . .

2007-11-23 22:22:49
223.   63Dodger
Streeter basically replaced Adande, right? So this is what you get when you're trying to save money.
2007-11-23 22:48:56
224.   Vishal
congrats to the rainbow warriors! i watched the whole game and it was quite entertaining. a lot of good athletes on both sides.
2007-11-23 22:50:49
225.   Vishal
205 i just hope to god your glorified club team doesn't beat my tragic disappointment next week. :/
2007-11-23 22:53:23
226.   Vishal
157 oh yeah, duh! talk about a game changer of a hitting pitcher. i wonder how much that helps a team win, to have a pitcher who can hit as opposed to a more or less automatic out.
2007-11-23 23:01:03
227.   nofatmike
226 I almost wanted Arizona to make the World Series just to see if the D'Backs would void the DH for him in an AL game.
2007-11-24 00:04:56
228.   ToyCannon
I expect that Don Drysdale in 1965 gave his team a better chance to win then the normal pitcher. The whole Dodger pitchering staff would have been better off that year with Don playing everyday.
2007-11-24 00:21:39
229.   bhsportsguy
I just saw the best performance by a Los Angeles sportscaster in a movie, Gil Stratton in "Stalag 17."

Of course, Stu Nahan has a special place for performing as himself in the "Rocky" films and of course, "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"

2007-11-24 00:35:36
230.   68elcamino427
Dick Lane for Hub City with Wrestling from the Olympic, Roller Derby too. Was Dick a real sportscaster, a salesman, or an actor?
The Original Whoa Nellie!
2007-11-24 04:34:12
231.   mankatododger
Minneapolis paper this morning suggests the Twins have no choice to be trade Santana and includes Dodgers as potential trading partners. Asking price is allegedly three top young players.
2007-11-24 04:39:37
232.   dzzrtRatt
Just drove home from a late night. Looking across the Santa Monica Bay from PV on this extremely clear night, there is a big, bright fire in what could be Topanga or Malibu Canyon. Quite ominous. I was scanning a view of the ocean lit up by the full moon when I saw the fire. I was sitting outside looking at those mountains until about 3 a.m. and just saw this at 4:15, so it has just gotten going.

Weird to see something like that so late at night. Like I'm the only one who knows about it.

2007-11-24 06:33:35
233.   Bumsrap
MN Star Tribune

"The Twins want at least three premium young players for Santana, and they hope to address their gaping holes at third base or center field.

That could prove tricky, however, as any team that trades for Santana would likely need to sign him to a new deal, with some predicting he will ask for $25 million per year."

LaRoche, Pierre, Kemp/MacDonald

2007-11-24 07:34:40
234.   jones2929
I was at the Old Town Pasadena tree lighting ceremony last night (my son was in the choir that sang), and Lasorda was there as the guest of honor, along with the Rose Queen (who Tommy kept complimenting). Anyway, before the ceremony, I overheard a fan talking to him about how it looked like the Dodgers weren't going to get Cabrera, and how the Angels were signing people, and Tommy got mad. I went and shook Tommy's hand, but he wouldn't even look at me. You have to figure he gets sick of people approaching him, though.
2007-11-24 07:35:03
235.   Chuck Churn
Getting Santana would have a far larger impact for us than trading for Miggy. But only in my wildest dreams would the Twins give him up for Pierre, LaRoche, and MacDonald. I am certain that they would want Kershaw and/or Kemp, just as everybody else does. However, it is intriguing that they desire a CF and a 3B, both of which we would be in a position to trade to them.
2007-11-24 07:44:33
236.   mankatododger
Twins have no one in their farm system to replace Hunter and have struggled to find anyone to play third base for a while. I doubt dumping Pierre on them would work though.
2007-11-24 07:46:09
237.   therickdaddy
229 - Don't forget Chick in the Herbie movie!
2007-11-24 07:46:43
238.   Bob Timmermann
The concept of a major league team with BOTH Juan Pierre and Jason Tyner in the outfield is terrifying.
2007-11-24 07:47:30
239.   gpellamjr
235 I don't think I understand. Why would the Dodgers be in a position to trade a 3B? Who play 3rd with LaRoche gone? Do you give the position to Nomar? Sounds miserable to me.
2007-11-24 07:49:05
240.   Bob Timmermann
Chick Hearn also appeared in the film version of "The Loved One."

I was not expecting to see him wander through that.

2007-11-24 07:49:36
241.   mankatododger
238 The concept of subzero temps within the next two weeks is even more terrifying to some of us.
2007-11-24 07:50:59
242.   Bob Timmermann
I think the remark about the Angels would have really ticked off Lasorda. From reading his bio (I'm almost done!), Lasorda does like people, but I think he was just getting a bit cranky or tired.
2007-11-24 07:53:09
243.   MC Safety
There is no question they would ask for Kemp. The thing is if we trade Laroche we have no third basemen. Id rather trade for Bedard and not give up LaRoche.
2007-11-24 07:57:05
244.   Bob Timmermann
"Fred, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it."
2007-11-24 07:57:55
245.   Andrew Shimmin
242- Or hungry.
2007-11-24 08:00:07
246.   mankatododger
244 Just being mean now. I thought global warming would work faster.
2007-11-24 08:08:03
247.   MC Safety
I talked to Lasorda for quite some time a few years back. It was at the Long Beach St. vs. USC CWS game at Blair Field. He was in the box next to ours. He truly is a gentle giant. I dont think I saw a smile leave his face. When the game was over and we were leaving he wished me and my girlfriend well and said to tell my uncle (Doug Dicenzo) hello.
2007-11-24 08:08:12
248.   MC Safety
I talked to Lasorda for quite some time a few years back. It was at the Long Beach St. vs. USC CWS game at Blair Field. He was in the box next to ours. He truly is a gentle giant. I dont think I saw a smile leave his face. When the game was over and we were leaving he wished me and my girlfriend well and said to tell my uncle (Doug Dicenzo) hello.
2007-11-24 08:08:41
249.   Bob Timmermann
My early childhood years of watching the Vikings beat the Rams in the NFL playoffs sold me on the belief that Minnesotans were the hardiest bunch of people in the world.

All of my illusions shattered.

2007-11-24 08:10:53
250.   Chuck Churn
Remind me. The Orioles would want middle infielders and a pitching prospect for Bedard?

Any rumors about what the Rays would want from us for Kazimir?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-11-24 08:13:04
251.   MC Safety
We might possibly be able to dump Pierre on Baltimore. Then maybe Kershaw and Hu/Abreu ???
2007-11-24 08:13:40
252.   willhite
I've heard some real conflicting stories about Tommy through the years. He seems to be great as long as you don't question him about things he's uncomfortable with at which point he's likely to turn on you.

Ratt, you must have caught the fire just as it was starting. For those of you here in SoCal who haven't turned on a radio or TV yet this morning, Malibu is ablaze again (bad winds) and at least 12 homes have already been destroyed.

2007-11-24 08:15:50
253.   mankatododger
249 Minnesotans born in LA and raised in San Diego tend to be wimps. The rest of them drive their trucks onto semi-frozen lakes and watch them sink.
2007-11-24 08:29:36
254.   Andrew Shimmin
Mankato is south of the Twin Cities! My nearing-ninety Grandmother who lives up in Cloquet spits in MD's general direction. She's still walking to the gym in the mornings to go swimming. The one concession to the weather, this season she's made was, the other day when she was taking out her trash and saw that there was a foot of snow on the ground, she decided she'd better put on tennis shoes, first.
2007-11-24 08:32:18
255.   mankatododger
I freely admit to being a weather wimp although I will go out walking as long as there is no ice on the ground. We are about 90 miles south of MSP. Those folks who live up north pretty much think we are all wimps down here.
2007-11-24 08:42:37
256.   Bob Timmermann
Why when my father used to load iron ore on to ships in Duluth, he'd scoff at the people in Mankato.

He used to tell me stories about the real Edmund Fitzgerald.

(Full disclosure: My father never set foot in the state of Minnesota in his lifetime although he told me he wished he had.)

2007-11-24 08:45:47
257.   ChicagoDodger
235 By definition, the Dodgers are in the position to trade just about everyone within the organization. That does not mean it is wise to do so.

251 Or they could just hold onto Kershaw Hu/Abreu.

2007-11-24 08:47:55
258.   Vishal
i've been to both minnesota and wisconsin at the height of winter. syracuse is worse.
2007-11-24 08:48:59
259.   Bob Timmermann

Syracuse will get more snow than Minnesota, but the latter will have a lower average temperature.

2007-11-24 08:54:24
260.   mankatododger
258 Syracuse will get the huge dumps of snow. Once we get snowfall that sticks, it will be here through March at least. My sister lives in Flagstaff and they are often colder and snowier than we are, but their snow melts in less than 5 months.
2007-11-24 08:54:41
261.   Bluebleeder87
However, it is intriguing that they desire a CF and a 3B, both of which we would be in a position to trade to them.

It almost sounds to good to be true. There upper management & advance scouts are pretty darn smart though.

2007-11-24 08:56:50
262.   Vishal
260 it doesn't exactly melt in syracuse either. there's snow on the ground october to april, and i've heard that sometimes it snows in may. i'm so glad i'm back in california.
2007-11-24 08:57:28
263.   Vishal
261 i think they're one of the clubs which might actually value pierre.
2007-11-24 08:59:29
264.   mankatododger
263 I think the Twins guys are smart enough to know that Pierre can't play in the Metrodome where you need a centerfielder who can play bounces and actually throw the ball more than 10 feet at a time.
2007-11-24 09:02:29
265.   silverwidow
MIN would accept Kemp/LaRoche and a pitching prospect not named Kershaw for Johan.
2007-11-24 09:04:54
266.   mankatododger
265 They might very well go for that although the bad press locally would be hard for them to take. They are already getting killed over losing Hunter.
2007-11-24 09:10:35
267.   Bluebleeder87
I've only seen snow once when I was driving over to Porterville I made a "nature stop" by Valencia at it just happened to be snowing (a little bit) that day. I ain't a fan of it either so I'll be happy not to see for a long time.
2007-11-24 09:23:44
268.   bigcpa
The words "White Sox" and "Aaron Rowand" appear in the same sentence over at Rotoworld. Let it be.
2007-11-24 09:31:27
269.   Bluebleeder87
[ ] The Halos want it all this year it seems. That's way to much talent to give up for one chubby 3rd baseman in my opinion.
2007-11-24 09:51:41
270.   CajunDodger
"nature stops" tend to not be too fun in the snow...
2007-11-24 09:57:27
271.   MC Safety
270 Making little yellow faces in the snow is fun!
2007-11-24 09:59:33
272.   CanuckDodger
269 -- The Angels don't seem to be willing to give up anything of much value beyond Kendrick, so they can't be too desperate for Cabrera. I think the Angels are quite aware that they really aren't competing with anyone for Cabrera, much to the Marlins' chagrin. The Marlins have tried to get the Angels and Dodgers into some kind of bidding war to drive up Cabrera's price, but so far the Dodgers aren't cooperating with the Marlins' plan.

Depending on the day of the week, almost, I go from worrying that Colletti is going to be a fool and trade for Cabrera at a terrible price, to thinking Colletti isn't really interested in doing anything more than "kicking the tires" on a Cabrera deal, knowing that two years of the Fat Man isn't worth giving up a lot to get, and knowing that the Dodgers don't have a "hole at third base," no matter what the local media keeps telling Colletti.

2007-11-24 10:14:00
273.   MC Safety
272 It's hilarious how our hole in CF gets completely ignored.
2007-11-24 10:20:18
274.   ChicagoDodger
273 If they move Pierre to left (lord help us) doesn't the hole move there too? They have mentioned doing that, so that is not completely ignoring it.

272 Tell Ned he can kick the tires all he wants, so long as he doesn't buy the thing! Not at those prices!

Hey, maybe if Ned had stood in line at Dolphin Stadium at 2:00 Friday morning waiting for a door buster deal he could have traded Young, DeWitt and MeLoan for Cabrera! But alas, he was probably asleep!

2007-11-24 10:48:17
275.   MC Safety
274 Correct, but batting that black hole in the 1 and 2 spots everyday for 162 games and then wanting to move that black hole to left isnt exactly recognizing you have a problem either. Ned is on record saying he just needs Juan to get on base 200 times and steal 50 bases so I will believe it when I see it.
2007-11-24 10:50:52
276.   underdog
Hah. Story in The Onion:
"Tampa Bay Devil Rays Change Name, Uniform, Sport"

>>Tampa Bay Devil Rays officials announced Monday that the team will be shortening its name to the "Tampa Bay Rays," that their updated uniforms will feature a blue and white color scheme accented by orange rays of sunshine, and that they are now a minor-league hockey team in the Florida Panthers system. "We tried the combination of calling ourselves the Devil Rays, wearing purple and black uniforms and playing the sport of baseball for 10 years, and it just didn't work out," said Rays goalie Carl Crawford. ... The Rays will play their first game of the Mid Atlantic Hockey League season tomorrow night against their in-state expansion team rivals, the Miami Ice Dolphins. <<

2007-11-24 10:51:58
277.   MC Safety
274 Also I havent heard anything in regard to JP's on base woes. Most of the propoganda coming out of LA has focused on his poor CF defense and spaghetti noodle arm.
2007-11-24 10:53:26
278.   MC Safety
propoganda>propaganda..... whoops.
2007-11-24 11:30:13
279.   SoSG Orel
252 He seems to be great as long as you don't question him about things he's uncomfortable with at which point he's likely to turn on you.

To be fair, this describes me as well.

2007-11-24 11:41:14
280.   jystakes
In reading the rumors about Johan's availability rising, I think the Dodgers should make that their foremost play. THis pitcher is one of two or three that come along once in a generation (of the pedro/maddux makeup), and it's worth giving up a few prospects and a max contract. I would give up Laroche, Kemp and Kershaw for him, and sign him to a 7 year, 20-25 million a year contract and never look back. He is still young, durable, professional, and completely dominant.
2007-11-24 11:43:33
281.   silverwidow
I would give up Laroche, Kemp and Kershaw for him, and sign him to a 7 year, 20-25 million a year contract and never look back.

The contract MUST be signed before the trade is complete.

2007-11-24 11:48:33
282.   jystakes
281 Absolutely. I think he has a no-trade clause and he wouldn't approve of a trade unless he got an extension anyway.
2007-11-24 11:51:26
283.   jasonungar07
McCourt hasn't paid for a superstar yet ,so why now? He won't do it. Which is fine by me. I'd much rather have those three players than a locked or unlocked Santana.
2007-11-24 11:54:32
284.   ChicagoDodger
I would give up Laroche, Kemp and Kershaw for him, and sign him to a 7 year, 20-25 million a year contract and never look back. He is still young, durable, professional, and completely dominant.

And if he goes the route of Kevin Brown? Then what? At least in the Brown case the Dodgers only lost money.

Losing Kemp, Kershaw and LaRoche along with $140 million is an awful lot to lose!

And to say that could never happen is not being honest, because we all know it could happen.

I understand the theory that says you have to give up something to get something. But you don't always have to do that. Sometimes the wiser move is keeping what you have rather then giving it up.

2007-11-24 11:57:05
285.   regfairfield
284 What happens if Johan Santana remains an elite pitcher?

What happens if Matt Kemp stabs a dude and gets 18 to life?

2007-11-24 12:07:26
286.   ChicagoDodger
285 If we can see into the future that Johan remains elite, then fine. But we don't know that.

If Kemp were to stab someone, they simply release him. Very little risk there.

2007-11-24 12:08:35
287.   jasonungar07
I know pitching wins but I would not trade 324 games for 32 starts. (and thats not including Kershaw)
2007-11-24 12:10:59
288.   regfairfield
286 We also don't know if he's going to get hurt. You just have to go with the most likely scenario, that the guy is going to be far better than any pitcher we have for a while.

I just really, really hate the "well, what if the worst thing possible" happens argument.

2007-11-24 12:12:27
289.   dsfan
I think Santana is past his prime. Still very good, but will be outrageously priced in terms of talent and dollars. Better to develop Kershaw and McDonald, find another pitcher more cheaply. Also need to help the pitching taff by improving, which you do immediately if you can sign Andruw -- but it's got to be a high-dollar, short-term deal.
2007-11-24 12:13:34
290.   dsfan
clarifying 289...dodgers need to help their pitching staff by improving the defense.
2007-11-24 12:23:20
291.   regfairfield
290 True, but aside from the obvious move of ditching Nomar the worst defensive players on the team are Kent and (arguably) Kemp, our two best hitters. The Dodgers don't have a real easy way to improve the defense without gutting an already shaky offense.
2007-11-24 12:27:36
292.   JoeyP
Why trade for Santana now, when the team can sign him after 2008 as a free agent?
2007-11-24 12:32:21
293.   68elcamino427
226 Johan Santana has a career BA of .258 and hit for .286 last year!
2007-11-24 12:32:31
294.   gpellamjr
291 I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but is Kemp really a worse defensive player than Pierre?

292 Acquiring Santana this year would give the Dodgers a rotation including Santana, Penny, Lowe, Billinsley, and Schmidt (if he's healthy). I think that's about as good as you're going to see. So acquiring him would make the team a very strong contender this year. I think that would be the thinking. Besides, if Santana is going to be traded this year (and the Twins will probably try hard to get it done), then he will demand an extension and so won't be available on the FA market.

2007-11-24 12:39:48
295.   68elcamino427
291 Kent and Nomar, yeah, their old and creaky.
Kemp may prove to be a pleasant surprise on defense next year.
"Trashcan" may now be spending the off season being schooled by some of Mr. Torre's associates on the finer points of outfield defense and baserunning.
2007-11-24 12:40:07
296.   regfairfield
294 In my opinion, yes. I really don't have a problem with Pierre's defense. He's got no instincts at all, but I think he has enough speed to make up for it.

Kemp is similar, he just doesn't have the range of Pierre and seems hesitant when the ball gets around the wall. Every major metric seems to agree that he's a bit below average.

2007-11-24 12:42:04
297.   Bob Timmermann
The Irish are going through the glorified club team (self-described by a Stanford fan) like a hot knife through butter.
2007-11-24 12:44:49
298.   gpellamjr
296 I think you're right about his lack of instincts. Does his arm close the gap significantly?
2007-11-24 12:46:25
299.   Bob Timmermann
False alarm.
2007-11-24 12:52:42
300.   68elcamino427
296 Kemp has terrific speed. Kemp has made some spectacular defense plays.
Kemp has shown that he seems to lack the knowledge/training on how to get a get a good break on the ball/run a good route to the ball.
The same is true for Kemp's baserunning, knowing /understanding when and what to do.
It was funny/ironic last year when "Trashcan" was being publicly chided by certain players and then Kent winds up getting picked off during several important scoring situations late in the season.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-11-24 13:04:51
301.   dzzrtRatt
292 What he said.

Santana's a one-year rental, and that's how his trade value should be priced. (Nomar/Pierre/McDonald and some cash for the veterans. I know, sounds insulting, but the Twins won't get much better from anyone else.)

Given what his old teammate Torii Hunter was able to pull off, Santana would be stupid to agree to a sign and trade deal, and he won't do it.

A year ago, would anyone have signed Hunter to 5/90 if given the chance in a sign and trade? Never. The object lesson to Santana is, wait and see. Things only get better.

2007-11-24 13:11:03
302.   regfairfield
292 One of the best pitchers in baseball won't be able to fetch more than two salary dumps and a B prospect? There are teams out there that are trying to win this year before their team infrastructure crumbles to the ground. You think that the Braves wouldn't be willing to send them Brent Lilbridge in order to get Johan and a couple draft picks?
2007-11-24 13:15:54
303.   bigcpa
Santana has said he will veto any trade without a multi-year extension.
2007-11-24 13:16:12
304.   Lexinthedena
I only trade for Santana if Kemp and Kershaw stay.....I would give up Young, Meloan, LaRoche, McDonald, even Broxton, but that's it...I doubt Minnesota will do it...

Just sign Andruw Jones and stay put....

2007-11-24 13:16:46
305.   CajunDodger
In McCourt's defense, there really has not been a "franchise" type player that would really be a good fit for the Dodgers in the past couple of years. I'm not sure that the wisest investment would have been to invest in one of the franchise guys that became available last year: Soriano (low OBP, lots of Ks, questionable defense), Carlos Lee (no defense in two years, older, wanted to live in Texas) and Zito (just ask the Hated Ones how that one turned out) all have had the proverbial fatal flaw.

I really see Cabrera differently. Everyone knows about his weight issues, but a shift to LF can cover some of those. I'm not sure that the issue is that McCourt has not wanted to pay for a franchise player as much as the fact that the guys out there in previous seasons weren't worth the dollars put forth. Cabrera just might be the guy we have needed all along while only having a predictable and preventable flaw.

I hope that the price in prospects will not be prohibitive, but he will definitely be worth the money an extension will demand (8-10 years @ $20 mil per) and I think that McCourt knows that.

2007-11-24 13:17:43
306.   dzzrtRatt
Here's what Dan Graziano, a Newark Star Ledger writer told the Yankees could trade for Santana:

"I'm thinking the Yankees could offer a package of (Melky) Cabrera, (Alan) Horne and outfield prospect Jose Tabata for Santana."

My crappy offer is better than that crappy offer. Horne, according to Graziano, is the Yankees' fourth-best pitching prospect after Chamberlain, Hughes and Kennedy.

Graziano does go on to make this interesting point:

"The thing to remember in dealing with the Twins, however, is that they might not always be after the prospects everybody knows about. The Twins pride themselves on being able to identify and acquire big-time prospects at the Class A level. Players who have come to the Twins' system at the A-ball level over the years include Jason Bartlett, Lew Ford and Joe Mays, as well as Johan Santana himself and a skinny little hitter whose name at the time was David Arias but later changed his last name to Ortiz and went on to achieve some measure of fame with the Boston Red Sox."

If the Twins wanted us to take on Santana for a one-year rental in return for 2-3 single A prospects not named Kershaw, fine. With Juan Pierre as the cherry on the parfait.

2007-11-24 13:22:52
307.   regfairfield
306 His offer involves a cheap, decent center fielder, Horne, and the 27th best prospect in baseball coming into this year. Your offer involves giving up a B pitching prospect and tossing 42 million dollars worth of bad player plus money at a very financially constrained team. How is your crappy offer better in anyway at all?
2007-11-24 13:27:03
308.   MC Safety
Horne is a B prospect right?
2007-11-24 13:27:55
309.   old dodger fan
303 Where did you read that?
2007-11-24 13:30:09
310.   regfairfield
308 C prospect at best I'd say. He's still in AA at age 24 and his numbers aren't absurdly good.
2007-11-24 13:46:19
311.   old dodger fan
UCLA goes up 6 - 0 in the 2nd.

Congrats to Virginia Tech with a big win over Virginia. Tech plays BC next week for the ACC championship and revenge for a 14 - 10 beating earlier this year.

2007-11-24 13:47:30
312.   Linkmeister
311 I was wondering where UCLA thoughts was.

Did I mention UH beat BSU last night?

2007-11-24 13:49:47
313.   old dodger fan
UCLA thoughts is on the same link as Va Tech thoughts. I'm still looking for the T-shirt though.

Hawaii has an awesome offense. Any ideas which bowl game they will play in?

2007-11-24 13:53:42
314.   Linkmeister
313 There have been rumors about the Sugar Bowl. The Sheraton Hawaii Bowl has to have mixed feelings about UH's success, since attendance at its game with no UH participation would be presumably down.

I imagine we'll know more after tomorrow's BCS ratings come out, and even more after the UH-UW game next weekend.

2007-11-24 13:54:08
315.   Marty
Both UCLA and Oregon announced they will be holding tryouts at halftime.
2007-11-24 13:55:40
316.   old dodger fan
315 I am following it on line. The QB stats for both teams look awful.
2007-11-24 13:56:54
317.   Andrew Shimmin
What's the UCLA to the Rose Bowl scenario, again?
2007-11-24 13:58:06
318.   trainwreck
Just score a touchdown Oregon and put us out of our misery.
2007-11-24 14:21:16
319.   68elcamino427
Should the "Club Team" consider moving out of the "Pro Ten" and become an Independent?
Wouldn't it be fun to watch them compete with the Service Academies?
2007-11-24 14:25:21
320.   Jon Weisman
The club team almost just bought itself another 25 years of infamy.
2007-11-24 14:25:29
321.   Bluebleeder87
Why trade for Santana now, when the team can sign him after 2008 as a free agent?

Because Ned doesn't work that way he is impatient with young players & he also likes quick fixes (Pierre in '07 when he could have waited for some one better in '08) he is struggling to get out of the Sabean form of thought. How Sabean still holds a job is beyond me, I really hope Ned has learn some lessons because I really feel McCourt is gonna be watching him really closely.

2007-11-24 14:27:57
322.   Chuck Churn
Again, I am an alum of the club team's school, so that gives me some leeway on this issue. In recent times, Stanford's football team has lost to UC Davis and San Jose State. Unless they bend their admissions standards, I do not believe that they can be competitive in the Pac-10. I want them to maintain their admissions integrity. So going independent is not a bad concept.
2007-11-24 14:28:17
323.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA beats Oregon
UCLA beats USC
Arizona beats Arizona State
2007-11-24 14:29:35
324.   Bob Timmermann
Since Stanford does very well in other Pac-10 sports, the Cardinal aren't going independent. They like that nice cut of the BCS check they get by being part of the Pac-10.

And Stanford did win the Pac-10 in football not all that long ago.

2007-11-24 14:34:34
325.   ChicagoDodger
288 I just really, really hate the "well, what if the worst thing possible" happens argument.

Well, you might hate it, but it is something that needs to be considered when you are talking the cost of acquiring said player in terms of players given up, and salary.

I just don't understand how one can give up 3 players the likes of Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw, and then spend $140 million or more for 7 years or more, and then if he gets injured, or more realistically stops pitching at a level worthy of $20 million a year or more that one can simply say "oh well".

Because, I really really hate that kind of logic. It's too risky! It doesn't leave the Dodgers with any outs! After the trade and extension, "everything" has to work out perfectly. If it doesn't, it's a disaster!

2007-11-24 14:35:21
326.   Marty
But "club team" has a nice ring to it.
2007-11-24 14:37:13
327.   Andrew Shimmin
323- Thanks.
2007-11-24 14:43:10
328.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Oregon has to lose to Oregon State too.
2007-11-24 14:48:22
329.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, the other way around. Oregon would have to beat Oregon State.

I think...

2007-11-24 14:48:46
330.   Andrew Shimmin
Stanford needs to hire a sniper. Or two.
2007-11-24 14:51:09
331.   dzzrtRatt
307 I was just trying to illustrate the problem in properly valuing a trade for Santana given the free agency market. I don't think either crappy offer is particularly compelling to the Twins, and yet going beyond that puts a team in a position of mortgaging a significant part of the future for one year of Santana.

If the Twins are realistic and want to do as Graziano suggests they might -- identify some low-minors gems they want rather than players teams are projecting for '08 or '09 -- then they could make a good deal for themselves. But the idea that any team should be willing to solve the Twins' major league positional holes for one year of Santana is going to lead to some frustrating discussions that go nowhere.

2007-11-24 14:58:54
332.   Bob Timmermann
Upon further review, the Oregon-Oregon State game would have no bearing on the Rose Bowl if I understand the Pac-10 tiebreakers correctly.
2007-11-24 15:00:34
333.   Marty
OK, with that field goal Oregon will need 4 scores to win.
2007-11-24 15:02:18
334.   Bob Timmermann
The five quaterbacks playing at the Rose Bowl today are a combined 9 for 40.
2007-11-24 15:03:00
335.   Andrew Shimmin
It'd be hard to choke down a total rebuild when your team has Santana, Mauer, Nathan, and Morneau. Plus Liriano!

Are the Twins the worst DH pickers in the world? Offerman, Rondell White, and Jeff Cirillo, over the last four years, with LeCroy the only partial respite from sucking.

2007-11-24 15:12:10
336.   68elcamino427
335 Yeah, it looks that way. Aren't you glad that we don't have the budget contraints their owners saddle themselves with?
2007-11-24 15:16:15
337.   Izzy
I don't think anyone gives up any significant prospects, without a contract in place for Santana. The problem is, as with most franchise free agents lately, is they never hit the market. The teams who have them are smart enough to realize what they have and either sign them or trade them. We will probably not get a chance to sign Santana, if we don't trade for him. So, if we want him, that's the deal. I am not sure if he's worth it, myself.
2007-11-24 15:16:19
338.   68elcamino427
325 -228 Because of things that players have been using over the past ten years or so, do you feel that it may be wise to focus on younger pitchers now?
2007-11-24 15:21:32
339.   trainwreck
How is Karl Dorrell handcuffed? He has his starting QB and has the guy he planned on being his starting RB?
2007-11-24 15:22:10
340.   Daniel Zappala
Absolutely amazing what Dennis Dixon meant to Oregon.
2007-11-24 15:22:14
341.   Bob Timmermann
Because neither of those two are completely healthy.

Or were all that good to begin with.

2007-11-24 15:22:47
342.   trainwreck
*Accidentally put a question mark at the end.

I can't wait to see our bowl game.

2007-11-24 15:22:48
343.   Bob Timmermann
This could be the angriest most UCLA fans have been after a win ever.
2007-11-24 15:23:29
344.   Bob Timmermann
Starting check airfares to DFW.

2007-11-24 15:24:09
345.   68elcamino427
Does this mean that Nick is in leg irons?
2007-11-24 15:24:37
346.   Daniel Zappala
This is one of those games that reminds you of a 0-0 Oregon-Oregon State tie.
2007-11-24 15:25:30
347.   Bob Timmermann
Those were the last two teams in major college football to play a scoreless tie.
2007-11-24 15:29:59
348.   Chuck Churn

You are right. Stanford doesn't measure up in football for the Pac-10 but is in the thick of it in every other sport. I have never heard of a college playing independent in one sport while competing in the conference in all others.

As for the BSC check . . . Stanford's endowment, last time I checked, was $12 billion (no kidding).

2007-11-24 15:29:59
349.   trainwreck
It will sure be fun losing to USC by 40-50 points.
2007-11-24 15:31:09
350.   Andrew Shimmin
Lucky Sheppard scored there. Dorrell was all set to punt.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-11-24 15:31:38
351.   Bob Timmermann
The 12 punts in a game for Syria is a new school record for Oregon.
2007-11-24 15:33:25
352.   68elcamino427
Dan, in his office alone.
With a black and white of Prothro in front of him.
Incense in the form of an unattended cigarette burning in an ashtray next to the picture, asking, wondering,
"Who will be the next great UCLA Coach?"
2007-11-24 15:33:34
353.   Bob Timmermann
Army and Navy are independents in football, but in conferences for other sports. I think they are the only ones who try it. And they are about the only ones who it makes sense for.

Stanford has been down the last few years in football, but I can see them being competitive. It's not that far-fetched.

2007-11-24 15:34:33
354.   Marty
Oregon needs 6 scores to win now.
2007-11-24 15:35:44
355.   Bob Timmermann
And of course, duh, Notre Dame is an independent for football, but they're still part of the BCS. They are, as Bobby Bowden said, "Part of the Notre Dame Conference."
2007-11-24 15:37:47
356.   68elcamino427
Notre Dame once owned a Bowl invite.
2007-11-24 15:42:47
357.   Andrew Shimmin
Did the Pac10 outlaw fair catches, or are there at least two punt returners in Pasadena this afternoon without the sense Ch-i gave a chicken?
2007-11-24 15:42:55
358.   Chuck Churn
I have been watching the WVU-UConn game, first on TV, now on computer. Mountaineers are blowing them out 59-14. WVU QB Pat White has close to 200 yards on the ground again.

ESPN abruptly switched the game to Ga-Ga Tech in the third quarter, without warning. I hate it when they do that. I flipped to Stanford-ND during commercials. Now that is a boring, inconsequential game.

If you missed watching White, Noel Divine, et al., in the WVU game today, you can catch them again in the BCS Bowl.

2007-11-24 15:46:08
359.   trainwreck
This game helped Dennis Dixon's Heisman hopes.
2007-11-24 15:57:00
360.   Andrew Shimmin
They should have made Pritchard try to kick that.
2007-11-24 15:58:00
361.   Chuck Churn
If Kemp, Loney, Kershaw, and LaRoche are considered untouchable (at least by this online community), does anyone really believe we can get a player of value (a solid starting pitcher) in return for some combination of Pierre, Elbert, DeWitt, MacDonald, Hu, Abreu, Hull, Stults, Houlton??? I wish I could believe that.
2007-11-24 15:58:22
362.   Bob Timmermann
My likely completely incorrect guesses on where Pac-10 teams end up in bowls.

These picks are predicated on USC beating UCLA and ASU beating the unnamed school in Tucson (whom I've already named in this thread, as I forgot my grudge).

Rose - USC
Fiesta - Arizona State
Holiday - Oregon State
Sun - Oregon
Emerald - Cal
Las Vegas - UCLA

2007-11-24 16:00:06
363.   Marty
Stanford has decided to play a headless quarterback.
2007-11-24 16:02:17
364.   Andrew Shimmin
363- Their linebackers fell down on the job with that last run. Maybe they should get him back in there to play both sides of the ball.
2007-11-24 16:05:47
365.   Andrew Shimmin
The sideline reporter reports that "[Prichard] can walk good." So, I'm sure it wasn't dangerous at all.
2007-11-24 16:22:36
366.   68elcamino427
All State is seriously considering "dropping" sponsorship of Club Team
2007-11-24 16:23:39
367.   Greg Brock
Las Vegas Bowl bound, baby!


2007-11-24 16:24:34
368.   ChicagoDodger
361 If Kemp, Loney, Kershaw, and LaRoche are considered untouchable (at least by this online community), does anyone really believe we can get a player of value (a solid starting pitcher) in return for some combination of Pierre, Elbert, DeWitt, MacDonald, Hu, Abreu, Hull, Stults, Houlton??? I wish I could believe that.

Well, if they didn't trade any of them, I'd say that Elbert, McDonald, Hu, Abreu & DeWitt all had some value. And over the next couple of years, they should all have even more value. To the Dodgers that is.

2007-11-24 16:33:50
369.   Chuck Churn
Yep, those are arguably the five keepers in the group.

On the downside: Elbert had big hype but now is a question mark after surgery; McDonald looks like an overachiever; DeWitt is expendable if LaRoche is retained and reaches his potential.

But we will need a second baseman soon enough, and a shortstop after that. So Hu and Abreu are keepers unless they have get us something better in trade.

With every conversation here, our list of untouchables keeps on growing. Interesting.

2007-11-24 16:33:53
370.   Bob Timmermann
I'm not inviting Brock along for the trip now.

Steve Wynn was going to comp me for the trip because he knows I'm a high roller.

2007-11-24 16:54:31
371.   Daniel Zappala
UCLA can't go to the Las Vegas bowl because they would play BYU, and that would be a re-match of an earlier contest this season.
2007-11-24 16:55:49
372.   Marty
BYU in Vegas. Now there's a wasted opportunity.
2007-11-24 16:57:10
373.   Bob Timmermann
Fort Worth or San Francisco beckons!
2007-11-24 16:59:25
374.   Daniel Zappala
The Las Vegas Bowl loves BYU because they sell out the game easily.
2007-11-24 17:00:13
375.   Bob Timmermann
The Las Vegas Bowl claims to be sold out already.

The Bell Helicopter Armed Forces Bowl makes no such claim.

2007-11-24 17:03:05
376.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, I could actually make it up to San Francisco for the Emerald Bowl. I have that weekend off.
2007-11-24 17:07:56
377.   trainwreck
Well last year I could not find anyone to go with me to the Emerald Bowl.

This year I won't have that problem, because I have no desire to go.

2007-11-24 17:09:20
378.   Bob Timmermann
So, no trainwreck for the Emerald Bowl.
No Greg Brock for the Vegas Bowl.
I'm not sure who will turn me down for the Armed Forces Bowl. Besides myself.
2007-11-24 17:16:09
379.   68elcamino427
The Emerald Bowl was created by the San Francisco Giants.
Sponsored by Diamond Walnuts.
Shouldn't it be re-named the Walnut Bowl?
2007-11-24 17:47:54
380.   trainwreck
Gary Pinkel is the anti-Dorrell.
2007-11-24 17:50:49
381.   dsfan
This is exaggerating to make a point, but I'd be fine with Ned if he applied a buy low/sell high approach in every transaction for a year or did nothing at all.

Example: Buy low on Andruw Jones -- if Boras will take a high-dollar, low-year deal. Boras keeps saying he won't take a one-year deal, but why not find out? Offer im $20 million for one year or $36 million for two?

Buy low on some relievers and maybe bring back Wolf.

Don't sell low on LaRoche.

Maybe see if you can sell high on Delwyn Young to an AL club.

In an ideal world, Ned's evaluation would be more sophisticated than that prescription, but for now, I'd be happy if he just applied those two tests to every transaction.

2007-11-24 18:01:57
382.   Chuck Churn
I have a hard time understanding why we need Andruw Jones. He hit .222, .300 OBP last year. He's 30 years old. Is it because of his Gold Glove? Or is it the thought that by obtaining Jones, Ned will somehow then have to peddle Pierre?
2007-11-24 18:03:12
383.   Dodgers49
Actually, UCLA is on its way to the Rose Bowl. :-)

>> As for UCLA (5-5, 4-3), it can count the positives on one hand at this point. The Bruins were considered out of the Rose Bowl race long ago and have lost three straight games. Yet they retain the edge in the four-way-tie scenario -- just beat Oregon today and USC next week and hope Arizona beats Arizona State. <<

2007-11-24 18:10:21
384.   68elcamino427
382 -381 Better to spend $18-$36 mil. on two pitchers?
2007-11-24 18:19:31
385.   Vaudeville Villain

It's what's always confused me about the Twins. They are great at finding and developing players, but I feel like they either overrate the importance of defense, or simply don't understand what constitutes a good offensive player. I mean, it's obvious to everyone that Morneau and Mauer are good offensive players. The less obvious choices, they seem to whiff on. Didn't they start some guy who hit at the Mendoza line all year last year?

2007-11-24 18:27:08
386.   68elcamino427
383 The way things have gone so far this year, that scenario fits right in.
2007-11-24 18:30:12
387.   jasonungar07
372 LOL
2007-11-24 18:45:01
388.   Bill Crain
The ESPN/ABC ranking of the all-time top 25 college football players is the most arbitrary, idiotic, pointless development in performance analysis since Henry Chadwick invented the batting average.

Thanks, I feel better now.

2007-11-24 18:48:30
389.   Bob Timmermann
You'll be singing a different tune when Matt Leinart ends up as #1.
2007-11-24 18:49:53
390.   Bob Timmermann
What's the over/under on the number of times Ben Olson will be sacked next Saturday.

I'll put it at 5.

2007-11-24 18:56:50
391.   NorCal-Dodger
Correct me if I'm wrong, but of the BCS elgible conferences, if Kansas loses tonight, Hawaii will be the only undefeated team? Go Rainbow Warriors!
2007-11-24 19:00:20
392.   Bob Timmermann
Technically, the WAC is not part of the BCS. The BCS is the Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, ACC, Big East, Pac-10, and Notre Dame.

The other conferences have to sit at the kids table.

2007-11-24 19:04:12
393.   NorCal-Dodger
I think UH might be elgible for an 'at large bid' if they can get ranked higher...that's how Boise State got into Fiesta last year?
2007-11-24 19:05:22
394.   Bluebleeder87
Man, did you guys read Ken Arneson's peace? he wrote a gem!
2007-11-24 19:10:59
395.   Bob Timmermann
UH will get an automatic at-large bid if they finish above #12 in the BCS or #16 if another conference champ is ranked lower. Right now, the only potential conference champ that could be ranked that low would be if UCLA pulled off the unlikely Pac-10 win.
2007-11-24 19:16:46
396.   NorCal-Dodger
Thanx Bob, but I thought you weren't gonna make mention of a certain College Football team in West L.A.????
2007-11-24 19:23:56
397.   Bob Timmermann
That boycott ended last week. I have moved my boycott to an unnamed school in Tucson.
2007-11-24 19:30:10
398.   StolenMonkey86
Well, been a busy couple of days. I got engaged Friday, and worked all day today.

Are there any chances of us trading Lowe or Furcal, perhaps to help fortify (or replenish) the farm after a blockbuster deal?

2007-11-24 19:32:48
399.   NorCal-Dodger
397 Didn't realize Brown Mackie College had an athletic department?
2007-11-24 19:36:42
400.   Bob Timmermann
The fans of that school storm football fields at the drop of a hat.

And they like to get drunk three times beyond the legal DUI limit every Saturday.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-11-24 19:47:17
401.   natepurcell
With so many superstar players (in their 20s still) available this offseason, it almost seems inevitable the Dodgers will end up (overpay) with one of them.
2007-11-24 19:48:53
402.   Jason in Canada
400 But their rivalry with the University of Phoenix is epic... I think they've played since the '90's for the prestigious little red fanny pack.
2007-11-24 19:49:29
403.   trainwreck

I doubt Ned would trade either of those guys, even if they are in the last year of their deals.

2007-11-24 19:52:21
404.   Jason in Canada
401 As long as that 20 year old superstar is not Wilton Pierre, Juan's slighter, bat corking brother. That would cause all kinds of drama around this place. He hardly ever takes a walk.
2007-11-24 19:52:42
405.   kinbote
I think I'd rather have Bedard than Santana at this point--does that make me crazy?
2007-11-24 19:54:02
406.   Jason in Canada
Hey Trainwreck did you hear, it's Hughes and St. Pierre at 79... Officially for the interim WW title.
2007-11-24 19:55:11
407.   natepurcell

yes, considering the asking price for either seems to be the same.

Bedard might have less wear and tear on his arm in terms of innings pitched, but he has never proven he can pitch 200+ innings a year and is already 28.

I like Bedard but he always seems to have nagging injuries every year.

2007-11-24 19:55:11
408.   trainwreck
Yep. Get to see a better fight than planned.

Too bad winner has to fight Serra. They should have Fitch and Karo fight each other for a title shot, so we can get some new blood in the title picture.

2007-11-24 19:55:18
409.   Bill Crain
Actually, I'm expecting David Eckstein.

At Florida he was selected to the Jewish All-American baseball team even though he's Catholic, so not having played football shouldn't be a barrier.

According to Wikipedia, "David was voted "Most Helpful", " Grittiest", and "Sweetest" in the Class of 1993" at Seminole High School.

Based on whatever criteria these ESPN guys are using, I'm pretty sure this will put Eckstein over the top. (In case of a tie Charles Barkley will make the final decision.)

2007-11-24 19:55:24
410.   Daniel Zappala
Speaking of BYU and Vegas, they beat #6 Louisville last night, and are playing #1 North Carolina tonight on ESPN2. They were keeping it close, but now down by 7 in the 1st half.
2007-11-24 19:57:07
411.   kinbote
407 Fair enough, Nate. I respect your opinion. (So tell me, what exactly are we going to do this off-season?)
2007-11-24 19:58:17
412.   trainwreck
Did Albert Pujols make the Jewish All-American team too?
2007-11-24 19:59:09
413.   natepurcell
If Colletti was Sabean and McCourt was Steinbrenner.....

*sign Druw Jones

*move Pierre to LF

*trade Kemp/Meloan/McDonald for Santana

*trade Kershaw/Laroche/Hu for Cabrera

SS Furcal
C Martin
1b Loney
3b Cabrera
2b Kent
CF Jones
RF Ethier
LF Pierre


2007-11-24 19:59:35
414.   StolenMonkey86
403 - I was thinking that he might though, especially think I think he'll sign Jones and trade for Cabrera. That would make the infield defense worse and the outfield defense better. That, combined with bringing back Jeff Kent, makes trading Derek Lowe make sense. And if he manages to trade McDonald and Kershaw, then we'll need to find a way to rebuild minor league pitching depth. One thing that reassures me occasionally about Colletti is that he likes depth.
2007-11-24 19:59:50
415.   natepurcell

Wait! I wrote 413 before you asked me!

2007-11-24 20:03:47
416.   Jason in Canada
408 I agree. Fitch and Karo would add some much need clarity. Although it would be a bummer for the loser of that fight, having squandered their chances with a loss.

I think Hughes will put up a much better fight than than people are saying. Not saying he'll win, but do better than last time.

2007-11-24 20:04:03
417.   Bob Timmermann
The Apple Cup was a thriller. Although it was ultimately meaningless. It may end up being the best game of all the Pac-10 rivalries this year.
2007-11-24 20:04:53
418.   natepurcell

I honestly have no idea what the Dodgers will do. Ned Colletti is an enigma wrapped meticulously by a mustache.

What I think we should do is swap Jones with Pierre and keep talking to the Marlins until they lower their asking price.

We are going to need the pitching depth of McDonald and Kershaw with the impending free agency of Lowe and the uncertainty of Schmidt.

2007-11-24 20:06:31
419.   trainwreck
Yeah, I do not expect him to try to stand so much. GSP still has good take down defense though.
2007-11-24 20:06:41
420.   StolenMonkey86
413 - But here's a nuttier version of that

Trade Kemp/Kershaw/LaRoche to FLA for M. Cabrera

Trade Furcal/Hu/Pierre/McDonald/Stults to BAL for Tejada/Payton/Bedard

Sign Andruw Jones

Hold Lowe



2007-11-24 20:08:01
421.   natepurcell

I love working with the idea of an unlimited payroll!

2007-11-24 20:09:38
422.   trainwreck
I would feel bad for Loney with those defenders around him on the infield.
2007-11-24 20:10:22
423.   Marty
398 Congratulations! I'm expecting an invitation.
2007-11-24 20:10:37
424.   StolenMonkey86
421 - The premise was if McCourt was Steinbrenner . . .

The flaw in my plan is that it leaves the Dodgers without a "true leadoff man" who's not a catcher. If we just held who we had, I really want to have LaRoche lead off.

2007-11-24 20:11:38
425.   StolenMonkey86
423 - how long a drive is it to Dodger Stadium for you?
2007-11-24 20:11:42
426.   Bill Crain
"I cannot forecast to you the action of Colletti. He is a riddle, wrapped in a mustache, inside a hairpiece, wearing elevator shoes; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Frank McCourt's rate of interest."
2007-11-24 20:11:46
427.   Jason in Canada
It's funny that if we have Schmidt returning, he's projected as a number 5. Is the thinking that he'll never be his old self again?
2007-11-24 20:13:39
428.   StolenMonkey86
427 - Well, I think it's more that he'll be injured so much we can skip him more, and also the other 4 guys will be good.

I'm asking for a non-tender of Mark Hendrickson this Christmas.

2007-11-24 20:14:08
429.   natepurcell

The thinking (for me at least) is that you want to be conservative because you kinda have no idea how he is going to do after such an unpredictable surgery.

2007-11-24 20:16:27
430.   Jason in Canada
Right. Let's hope Schmidt has better luck than teams ranked #2 this year in the BCS! Man, what a year... Pete Carroll must be kicking himself.
2007-11-24 20:19:24
431.   StolenMonkey86
to clarify 425 , if you said less than 2 days of driving very fast, then it's going to be a bit of the trip
2007-11-24 20:30:20
432.   StolenMonkey86
I like Bedard but he always seems to have nagging injuries every year. But let's cherry-pick some numbers to compare two players.

AGE IP---------YR
25 137.3-----2004
26 141.7-----2005
27 196.3-----2006
28 182.0-----2007

AGE IP---------YR
25 196.3-----2003
26 143.0-----2004
27 175.3-----2005
28 189.0-----2006

Bedard was signed in 1999 (age 20) and had Tommy John surgery in 2002. Penny made his major league debut in 2000 (age 20).

I don't know what to think of Bedard's K-rate spiking this year, though.

2007-11-24 20:31:45
433.   natepurcell

His curveball is one of the few true 80 pitches in the majors.

2007-11-24 20:31:48
434.   StolenMonkey86
blast, meant to bold the first sentence, as it quoted 407 . I learned how to cherry pick like this from Jayson Stark.
2007-11-24 20:32:10
435.   Daniel Zappala
ESPN just said the UCLA win over Oregon was a "shocker". Apparently they didn't get the memo that the Ducks started the game with a gimpy #2 QB who has never played very well, then alternated between their #3 and #4 QBs, neither of whom had thrown more than a few passes in college.
2007-11-24 20:35:50
436.   StolenMonkey86
433 - ah ok.

I took my fiance to a Yanks-O's game last year, and Bedard handled the Bombers' lineup rather handily, much to her disappointment (she's a yanks fan). But that's a bit overshadowed in my memory by the fact that Cory Lidle was the starting pitcher for the Yankees.

2007-11-24 20:39:16
437.   Daniel Zappala
417 Abdollmohammadi is ice.
2007-11-24 20:40:05
438.   natepurcell

go to starter, go to erik bedard, watch highlight video.

just in case some haven't seen him pitch before. He's pretty nasty.

2007-11-24 20:46:32
439.   Bob Timmermann
Why in the world didn't Kansas try an onside kick after the safety?
2007-11-24 20:47:44
440.   trainwreck
Why didn't they call a timeout at the end end of the first half?

My guess is that Mangino's a meat head.

2007-11-24 20:54:13
441.   Xeifrank
439. Bob, I logged on to ask you the exact same question and figured you'd tell me about some obscure rule where you are not allowed to attempt an on-side kickoff after a safety. Glad you thought the same thing. After the safety, I thought to myself, why are they celebrating like the game is over. They can do an on-side kick and if it's successful they've gained 20-30 yards from where they were on the 9 yard line.
vr, Xei
2007-11-24 20:55:29
442.   Bob Timmermann
A free kick and a kickoff are the same play and the same rules apply. They just start from different yard lines.
2007-11-24 21:12:27
443.   natepurcell
Over the past twenty-four hours, the Brewers have been in talks with several teams, according to major league sources. He told me that Dodgers GM Ned Colletti has talked with Doug Melvin of the Brewers about a possible swap, but nothing has gotten serious as of yet. I expect the Brewers to be looking at either Joe Biemel or Jonathon Broxton, so it will cost them. The Dodgers are looking for an outfielder and could ask for Bill Hall in a trade.

2007-11-24 21:14:15
444.   natepurcell
I don't remember if that has been discussed yet.
2007-11-24 21:15:59
445.   Daniel Zappala
Really good basketball game with BYU and NC, by the way. They keep trading 1 to 3 point leads.
2007-11-24 21:16:04
446.   natepurcell
I really like Manny Parra but I don't know if I would trade Broxton for him.
2007-11-24 21:18:10
447.   Bob Timmermann
But are they throwing babies out of the balcony?

That's how another BYU grad would describe an exciting basketball game.

2007-11-24 21:22:39
448.   Daniel Zappala
447 ??? So instead of a barn-burner, this is a married-student-housing-burner?
2007-11-24 21:23:59
449.   Daniel Zappala
Darn. BYU's gone cold in the last few minutes. This could have been a huge upset, but NC looks like they're holding on.
2007-11-24 21:28:48
450.   Bob Timmermann
North Carolina is doing well despite having to put up with the unathletic Tyler Hansbrough. He's just an older version of Kevin Love I hear.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-11-24 21:36:32
451.   Andrew Shimmin
BYU has a big white guy, too, whom Dicky V. fell all over himself praising. He looked athletic to me, but I can't tell if athletic is a euphemism.
2007-11-24 21:47:17
452.   Bob Timmermann
That was Tyler Hansbrough.
2007-11-24 21:49:26
453.   Andrew Shimmin
BYU's guy is Trent Plaisted.
2007-11-24 22:00:55
454.   MC Safety
446 Parra is the lefty right?
2007-11-24 23:43:16
455.   Greg Brock
Bob, are you enjoying Battlestar Galactica?
2007-11-25 00:37:58
456.   bhsportsguy
Now, the Notre Dame game was just plain unwatchable. Today's game was slighly less unwatchable. Dennis Dixon may be the most valuable player in college football because Oregon's entire offensive scheme relies on a double threat QB.

Really, once Leaf went out, you knew that the game was going to be one of just not making mistakes.

I have no idea if Karl Dorrell can save his job with a win because he's the same coach at 8-5, 7-6 or 6-7.

The next week or so should be interesting.

2007-11-25 01:05:34
457.   JRSarno
Colletti's lack of movement right now is kinda beginning to piss me off. It would seem that any Cabrera trade is now at an irresolvable impasse. For the better, I say, as it would seem the Marlins are asking for too much, no matter what the trade iteration. I have more respect for Flanders in staying the course with our youth, rather than engaging in a spontaneous fire-sale of home-grown talent for an expanding slab of bacon at third base. I do think, however, that we need to sign Andruw Jones (NOT ROWAND) at this point (as much as I hate the prospect of paying Boras anything), and take the surplusage of outfielders that remain (including yes, some of our lauded youth) and make an offer for Johann Santana. That said, a key part of such a maneuver would inevitably presuppose that they must keep LaRoche off the prospective trading block, in order to have some semblance of a future at 3B.

Therefore, with (1) Pierre, (2) one of Kemp/Ethier, (3) Hu, and (4) Clayton Kershaw as trade bait, you could likely satisfy the Twins' trade demands with some formula of these aformentioned four players. [The theory being that you fill their hole at CF following the loss of Torii Hunter, and give them a huge pitching prospect]. The net effect is that the Dodgers add the power bat they've/we've been desiring, subtract Pierre from this entire equation, and manage to add Cy Young caliber pitching power, all at once.

Ergo, prospective lineup:

1 - Furcal
2 - Martin
3 - Loney
4 - A.Jones
5 - Kent
6 - either Kemp/Ethier (depending on trade)
7 - LaRoche/Garciaparra
8 - Young/Repko

Pitching Staff:

1 - Santana
2 - Penny
3 - Lowe
4 - Billingsley
5 - Schmidt
6 - Loaiza/Kuo

Unless I'm missing something, and barring injuries, I think this would solve virtually all our asserted woes, and get us into the World Series as the NL representative.

2007-11-25 01:05:40
458.   trainwreck
I figured UCLA would win this week.

There really should be nothing interesting about next week, because KD should be gone. Sadly, I am still trying to prepare myself for him coming back next year. Regardless, we are going to be terrible next year.

2007-11-25 01:28:07
459.   Bob Timmermann
I've watched all three seasons now.

I will watch "Razor" tomorrow night.

2007-11-25 01:31:32
460.   bhsportsguy
I'm watching this documentary on Steven Spielberg and as if he needed the money, he tells this story that I have never heard before.

George Lucas came down to the set of "Close Encounters" and said to Spielberg, something to the effect that this movie will be so much more successful than "Star Wars," I'll swap you 2.5 net points of Star Wars for 2.5 net points (profits) of Close Encounters.

Spielberg took the bet and is still receiving money from that deal that was made just between them nearly 30 years ago.

2007-11-25 01:32:38
461.   bhsportsguy
459 Thanks again for the game, did you finish Tommy's book?
2007-11-25 01:38:50
462.   Bob Timmermann
Too much TV watching. I'll finish it tomorrow afternoon. I need some sleep.
2007-11-25 06:17:00
463.   Ken Noe
Sorry if this is old news: McCourt's interview in the Boston Globe: Torre already his major acquisition, renewed commitment to the kids, the "feud" overblown (and the fault of Kent and LuGo), Cabrera's price too high (not three, much less four kids), but may take a run at Santana or another pitcher (Pettitte?). A darned encouraging read.

PS: Hokies win!

2007-11-25 07:13:23
464.   Bumsrap
463 - That Boston Globe article had a group of stories and all were interesting. If the Dodgers keep their team as it is for the most part, I would be pleased. I prefer to tweak the existing team like the article said, instead of destroying the strength of the farm for one player.

And if Schmidt does come back to his better days strength, the Dodgers will have very good pitching in 2008.

2007-11-25 08:00:40
465.   Bluebleeder87

Thanks for the link Ken Noe I was very pleased reading that.

2007-11-25 08:15:18
466.   Bluebleeder87
I'm kind of wandering why the Boston Globe can get an interview with Frank McCourt & the L.A. Times can not.
2007-11-25 08:18:20
467.   Daniel Zappala
The Angels and Marlins supposedly have agreed on Kendrick, Mathis, and Willits, with the Angels balking on also including Adenhart for Cabrera. Would be nice to throw together one good young player, two mediocre young players, and one highly-rated-but-slipping prospect for a player of Cabrera's caliber.

The Dodgers don't have this surplus of young major-league players like the Angels do, so I can't see a deal being done unless they want to take more prospects than major-league players.

2007-11-25 08:21:07
468.   Daniel Zappala
The best thing Kemp and Loney have going for them is that they have high batting averages from last season (.342, .331). This is the sort of stat that gets printed in articles like the one in the Globe and that gets Colletti's attention so he knows they are too good to trade.
2007-11-25 08:22:40
469.   CanuckDodger
463 -- There were no statements by McCourt that suggested the Dodgers would go for Santana. That was something the writer threw in, saying that the Dodgers would have to change their minds about not giving up three young players for ONE player if they want Santana. And, really, we can now pretty well rule out going for Santana completely, just as we can now put all the Cabrera nonsense to bed, since it stands to reason that if the Dodgers won't give up what they would have to give up to trade for Cabrera, who is two years from free agency, they cartainly aren't going to give up an equivalent bounty of young talent for a guy who is one year from free agency.
2007-11-25 08:29:14
470.   Ken Noe
463 I stand corrected. Late night watching Auburn beat Bama...again. I'd actually prefer the sort of deal for a starter discussed in the potential Brewers deal above.
2007-11-25 09:06:39
471.   Jon Weisman

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