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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Not a Retiring 42
2007-11-28 23:00
by Jon Weisman

Greg Maddux will earn a reported $10 million from the Padres next season at age 42, coming off a year in which he had an ERA+ of 98 (over 198 innings), the worst season of his career. Would you rather have him or Esteban Loaiza (36 on New Year's Eve) for a year at $7 million? Loaiza's lifetime ERA+, coincidentally, is 98.

* * *

"The sharp increase in MLB revenue coupled with a slower increase in salaries brings teams closer to the point where all can afford premium talent, not just the richest clubs," writes David Pinto at

* * *

Rauuuuuuuul! Luuuuuuuuar!

From Dominican Today:

Former Los Angeles Dodger slugger and now deputy Raul Mondesi after a meeting with president Leonel Fernandez yesterday decided to continue backing the ruling PLD party and the reelection bid, just hours after vowing to support opposition PRD party presidential candidate, Miguel Vargas.

The newspaper El Nacional said deputy Mondesi – who won his seat after resigning from the also opposition PRSC party - met with Vargas on Wednesday and said he was willing to support his candidacy, but Fernandez invited the ex-big leaguer to the National Palace just hours afterwards, when he again vowed to support the re-election.

Vargas said in the two meetings which the former outfielder requested, Mondesi had expressed his disgust with the PLD, for alleged broken promises.

(Thanks to Andrew Breitbart for the link.)

* * *

Consider this, Dodger fans of Cal matriculation. Joe Starkey's call of The Play echoes that of a Giants broadcaster. Ron Barr's echoes that of a Dodger legend.

Barr rolls his eyes and smiles whenever he hears Starkey's call. Barr is Red Barber to Starkey's Russ Hodges, best remembered for his screaming reaction to Bobby Thomson's famous home run in 1951: "The Giants win the pennant! The Giants win the pennant!"

Barber, the Dodgers radio voice, went silent on air for 59 seconds for dramatic effect. He later criticized Hodges' rendition for lacking journalistic integrity.

Barr is more considerate of Starkey's call of The Play. He knows Starkey's cracking voice will forever be linked with it. ...

To this day, Barr claims that out of the corner of his eye he saw an official on the far sideline, 20 or so yards downfield from The Play, lift and wave his arms as if to signal the end of the game as Garner pitched the ball to Rodgers. Barr says that a wide-angle still photograph of The Play that appeared in a Bay Area newspaper 10 years later appears to show an official with his arms over his head. Barr believes that Garner's knee touched the ground before he pitched the ball to Rodgers.

"What is interesting and what I'm probably most proud of is the fact that — unlike Joe — I got it right," Barr said, smiling. "That's the single-most satisfaction I get out of the game."

Comments (212)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-28 23:06:20
1.   Eric Enders
So I'm doing some photo research for a client, and I thought you guys might be amused by this photo caption of a great moment in Dodger history. Corbis cutlines are always terrible, but this one reads like one of those kooky Google translations.

"Caught by the camera in a baseball history-making moment, Gill Dodges, the Brooklyn dodgers first base man, crosses the plate, to score his fourth home run in the same game against the Boston Braves. This last homer game in the eighth inning of the night game saw Dodges crack each of the circuit smashes off different pitchers. Only Loud Loud equaled this record in modern times in a nine inning game. In this photograph, Carl Loud, (6), who scored ahead of Dodges, moves out to congratulate Dodges. Bruce Edward's (10) is at the plate. Dodgers won with a thumping Edward's score."

2007-11-28 23:09:22
2.   trainwreck
Give me Greg Maddux!
2007-11-28 23:10:18
3.   Eric Enders
2 You forgot the last clause, "or give me death!"
2007-11-28 23:12:29
4.   Bob Timmermann
Hey, I thought Dickerson was out of bounds and Affholter didn't score, but I've moved on.
2007-11-28 23:14:05
5.   trainwreck
It would be pretty lame if my cause of death read:

Esteban Loaiza

2007-11-28 23:17:34
6.   Eric Enders
4 You forgot the Giants cheating in 1951.

And, heck, in 1962, too, with the muddy basepaths.

2007-11-28 23:23:53
7.   Eric Enders
I'm going to call it a night, but I'll sign off with a question:
How far will UCLA hoops drop in next week's polls after the pummeling they receive on Sunday?
2007-11-28 23:38:46
8.   Vishal
Consider this, Dodger fans of Cal matriculation. Joe Starkey's call of The Play echoes that of a Giants broadcaster. Ron Barr's echoes that of a Dodger legend.

well, i think it's in large part because the giants happened to win and stanford happened to lose. it's only natural for the announcer of the winning team to react with such a mixture of excitement and disbelief to that type of victory.

2007-11-28 23:49:03
9.   dodgerkramer1
2007-11-29 00:00:21
10.   jasonungar07

Just a few baby pics for anyone to check out.

Humma how are things with your little one??

2007-11-29 00:04:02
11.   Eric Stephen
Cute baby! Jason & Humma, belated congrats on your respective offspring.
2007-11-29 00:14:11
12.   natepurcell
Additionally, Kohrogi, Kojima and Dodgers assistant general manager Logan White scouted Kuroda extensively during the Japanese Central League season.

2 day old article but it seems like the Dodgers have been on Kuroda for a while.

2007-11-29 00:15:28
13.   natepurcell
this too.

The Mariners have been widely reported to be Kuroda's preferred team because of the presence of countrymen Ichiro Suzuki and Kenji Johjima, who would be Kuroda's primary catcher in Seattle. But a source with knowledge of the situation said earlier this week that Kuroda actually prefers the Dodgers for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is his close, long-standing friendship with Saito.

Sammy with another (potential) save!

2007-11-29 00:17:11
14.   natepurcell
another TJ article.

A source with knowledge of the Twins' position said Wednesday that the club is asking the Dodgers for a package of three or four players from a pool of six: pitchers Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton, outfielders Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp, top pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw and third-base prospect Andy LaRoche. Whether the Twins would want three or four players depends on whom those players are.


2007-11-29 00:22:15
15.   still bevens
14 Would you pull the trigger with Brox, Ethier and LaRoche and a consolation prize throw in? Granted theres no 'crown jewel' in there, but he did say 3 of 6.
2007-11-29 00:23:01
16.   Eric Stephen
Billingsley and Kemp have to stay. That leaves Broxton, Ethier, Kershaw & LaRoche. Wow, that's a lot. I can't say I wouldn't do it though!

I guess a lot depend if we could get Andruw or Cameron instead of Rowand.

2007-11-29 00:23:51
17.   natepurcell
I don't know. That doesn't seem like a package the Twins would take.
2007-11-29 00:25:10
18.   jasonungar07
Thanks Eric!

Nate 14 which sets us back further...

The Marlins asked the Dodgers for a package that included first baseman James Loney, outfielder Matt Kemp and top pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw.

2007-11-29 00:27:19
19.   thinkblue0

They wouldn't take that package, it'd be nice though.

Of course we'd all love to have Santana and/or Cabrera on our team, but the amount we'd have to give up in either deal would just create way too many holes to make up for it.

2007-11-29 00:28:19
20.   Louis in SF
Just read the NY Daily News article-that Dodger kramer 1 put up, seems to jive with what Ned has been saying in LA recently and the basic standard GM comments about "not getting into specifics". However, no mention of LaRoche and Young or even how well the "youngsters" did in the recent World Baseball Classic.

Any thoughts if this means they don't have confidence in LaRoche?.....Is Saito signed yet? and speaking of former Dodgers and Asia. I believe Nomo is no longer pitching, if he is not I don't understand why the Dodgers are not employing him in someway, assuming he would have an interest. A scout in Japan? Working in the front office on a pacific strategy? He was big in Japan and his early years with Nomomania were spectacular and when he came back although he struggled in the first half of 2004, he kept us in many games without his best stuff. He should be working for the Dodgers.

2007-11-29 00:30:55
21.   Eric Enders
I'd offer Ethier, Broxton, LaRoche, and a B prospect as my best offer. The Twins might not take it now, but if it gets to late July and they're faced with the prospect of getting nothing for Santana at all, they might take it then.

It seems to me that premium players almost always come cheaper (in terms of prospects) during the season as opposed to during the offseason. Teixeira was an exception, though.

2007-11-29 00:32:09
22.   thinkblue0

Basically we have to just offer the absolute limit for both and say take it or leave it.

I don't want to hear about all this for the entire season.

2007-11-29 00:32:09
23.   trainwreck
Everyone seems willing to trade LaRoche, but who would our third baseman be next year and then in the future?
2007-11-29 00:32:17
24.   Eric Enders
20 Nomo is actually pitching winter ball right now in, I believe it is, Venezuela.
2007-11-29 00:34:53
25.   thinkblue0

Well, that's part of the problem. That means we'd have to deal for someone like a Scott Rolen or gulp, give it to Nomar.

2007-11-29 00:35:58
26.   Eric Enders
23 I don't know. What I do know is that third basemen are a dime a dozen right now because every team seems to have a good young third baseman on its hands. Some of those guys will become free agents soon enough.

Baseball America rated 3B as the deepest position in the Dodger farm system. Of course, that was based partly on LaRoche, but one of DeWitt, Josh Bell, or Pedro Baez is bound to pan out.

2007-11-29 00:39:16
27.   trainwreck
Weren't people saying that Bell won't stay at third? Also, those guys are at least a couple years away.
2007-11-29 00:40:24
28.   Eric Stephen
23 Everyone seems willing to trade LaRoche, but who would our third baseman be next year and then in the future?

And there's the rub. Maybe a Nomar / Mike Lamb platoon?

2007-11-29 00:47:02
29.   Eric Stephen
To further add to the speculation, trading for Johan ($13.25m in 2008) with either of the packages from 16 or 21 , plus signing Andruw for $18m per to take the OF spot vacated by Ethier, plus signing Mike Lamb to a $3m contract puts the 2008 Dodger payroll at roughly $125 million.
2007-11-29 00:49:51
30.   Lexinthedena
28- I keep forgetting about Mike Lamb...he would be a great pick-up...I see him putting up Andre Ethier type numbers....

I would give up a package centered around laRoche and Broxton, but losing Broxton does scare me due to Saito's age, and the fact that Brox has that extremely rare combonation of Power and control....

2007-11-29 00:50:37
31.   jasonungar07
I wish Kent could go all Y2K on us in 08. One for the dirt road...

.334/.424/.596/1.021 '00

2007-11-29 00:51:14
32.   Lexinthedena
29- If Pierre then moves to left I can see this board turning into "Play Delwyn!" Thoughts.
2007-11-29 00:56:19
33.   Eric Stephen
The one good thing about moving JP to left is that it makes him easier to replace. It removes his Ripken-esque invulnerability -- if they can move him from CF, they can move him again (reduce his playing time, benching him).
2007-11-29 00:56:36
34.   thinkblue0

But it's also not out of the realm of possibility that Laroche puts up Eithier type numbers as well.

2007-11-29 00:57:24
35.   thinkblue0

Whether it's right or wrong, Pierre's contract will mean his playing time will never be reduced.

2007-11-29 00:58:24
36.   Eric Stephen
I'm with you on Broxton. Maybe we can convince the Twins to take Meloan instead?
2007-11-29 01:01:33
37.   Eric Stephen
I don't buy this completely. The fact that the club has already talked to JP about moving from "his position" to LF shows that they are willing to stray from their original Pierre plan.

The first step is always the hardest. The ice appears to already have been broken.

2007-11-29 01:01:46
38.   Lexinthedena
36- I wish, but Meloan has proven nothing....the Twins are going to demand at least one proven stud...

34- I think LaRoche will put up numbers better than Ethier...but we are talking about trading him for the best pitcher in baseball....

2007-11-29 01:15:45
39.   thinkblue0

we are talking about trading him for the best pitcher in baseball...which would also mean paying him 20 mill a year, which would also mean putting him in a package with other players so we have more holes to fill.

as a hypothetical, I don't see how we're any better if we give up Bills, Loney, Laroche, Kemp for Santana. We're worse off.

2007-11-29 01:20:29
40.   Eric Stephen
39 Your hypothetical gives up way too much. Trading Bills, Loney, Kemp & LaRoche of course will leave holes.

But, in the article by Tony Jackson quoted above, the Twins asked for "3 or 4" of Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw, & LaRoche.

Giving up Ethier, Broxton, Kershaw & LaRoche doesn't leave nearly as many holes.

2007-11-29 01:22:23
41.   Eric Stephen
Also, it would be kind of funny that both the Angels and Dodgers will have signed a CF to an expensive, multi-year contract one year after each of them signed a CF to an expensive, multi-year contract.
2007-11-29 01:33:31
42.   thinkblue0

3 or 4....i can't imagine in a billion years they would do a deal without including AT LEAST one of Kemp or Loney.

2007-11-29 01:33:50
43.   Lexinthedena
I still think the Angels are going to trade Gary Mathews...they are going to have a busy offseason...
2007-11-29 01:36:48
44.   Eric Stephen
I can see them keeping Mathews. Their OF-DH situation is set with Mathews-Hunter-Vlad-Garret. Not sure where Juan Rivera fits in there though.
2007-11-29 01:38:57
45.   Eric Stephen
I took the quote (see 14 ) Whether the Twins would want three or four players depends on whom those players are to mean that if it's Kemp & Billingsley, the 3rd player doesn't matter, but not including either one means the Twins would want the other 4 of the 6 they asked for.
2007-11-29 01:41:05
46.   Eric Stephen
Truth be told, I would rather trade Loney than LaRoche, all things being equal. And I really, really like Loney.
2007-11-29 01:41:22
47.   Lexinthedena
Mathews will be part of a Cabrera or Tejada trade....with their outfeild depth chart something like this...

RF- Vlad, Rivera
CF- Hunter, Rivera, Figgins
LF-Rivera, Anderson, Figgins
DH- Anderson, Vlad, Rivera

2007-11-29 01:42:12
48.   Lexinthedena
46- Really?

Please tell me why because I see Loney as a star...

2007-11-29 01:44:10
49.   jasonungar07
Please just no major trades. I am uneasy though, despite the public comments. I can see them claiming victory in a deal while most of us here are going "Serenity Now"....
2007-11-29 01:44:57
50.   Eric Stephen
No way Mathews goes to Florida (they can't afford him), but I can see him going to Baltimore for Tejada.

Depending on whether Wood or Kendrick are included (with Adenhart?) in a Tejada deal, Figgins will play either 3B or 2B. I can see that working.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-29 01:47:02
51.   Eric Stephen
I just think LaRoche will be a better overall hitter than Loney, and a first baseman is easier to find than a third baseman generally (even though Enders pointed out in 26 that there are a lot of good 3B out there right now).
2007-11-29 01:49:17
52.   Lexinthedena
51- I think LaRoche is the better all around athlete of the two....but Loney looks to have the makings of a truly great hitter....
2007-11-29 02:04:21
53.   thinkblue0

I understand what you're saying. But I will personally take you out to dinner if we were able to get Santana without giving up Kemp or Loney.

it doesn't matter what players they want, no matter what combination you put together we still end up a weaker team.

We're supposed to be building, not blowing things up.

2007-11-29 02:17:41
54.   Eric Enders
Loney, however, doesn't appear on the Twins' wish list above. They have a 1B who's the American League MVP, so they don't really need Loney. Unless they're willing to concede that Morneau, at age 26 or whatever, will be a permanent career DH.
2007-11-29 02:20:33
55.   thinkblue0

Okay, the point being that it doesn't matter what the report says: we're not getting Santana without giving up Kemp + Kershaw + probably Laroche.

That's just too much to give up. It creates even more holes for us. Then what do we do? Now we have the best pitcher in baseball signed to 20 mill a year which means we aren't about to sign anyone else. Do you really want an outfield with Repko and Pierre? Do you really want Nomar at third base all year?

There isn't any scenario where getting Santana makes us a better team unless they literally gave him to us, which ain't gonna happen.

2007-11-29 02:21:35
56.   Eric Enders
53 "But I will personally take you out to dinner if we were able to get Santana without giving up Kemp or Loney."

But the Twins, after today's trade, need neither Kemp or Loney. Nor Martin, for that matter. Any trade would probably have to revolve around LaRoche and pitching. Billingsley or Kershaw, or, more likely, both.

2007-11-29 02:25:11
57.   thinkblue0

They could still absolutely use Kemp. Look at their lineup.

Not to mention, you still haven't told me how any trade makes us better considering what we're giving up and the financial strain having Santana puts on the team.

Heck, if you're gonna do that, make a 20 times better deal and get Dan Haren. You give up less, get one of the best in the game who's still under control for what, like 3 yearS?

2007-11-29 06:15:27
58.   Bumsrap
Because Santana has been very good he goes deep into games and has accumulated over 900 innings already. He was not as dominent last year as he was the year before. Does any team want to give Santana a 6 year contract at $20M/yr?

The Twins arn't going to get fair value for the same reason they are willing to trade him.

2007-11-29 06:27:43
59.   Bumsrap
I would enjoy the Dodgers more if they had a good core of players that played together for 10 years. I don't want the Dodgers to spend long-term $$ now and not be able to pay that core of players enough $$ to keep them later.

I still think Dewitt will prove to be better than LaRoche.

2007-11-29 06:28:22
60.   regfairfield
56 I think the Twins need Kemp far more than LaRoche. Harris has no right being a middle infielder and should stick at third, plus they have Cuddyer who can play the position as well.

Meanwhile, Jason Tyner is their centerfielder. There's nothing wrong with carrying a pure defensive centerfielder, but when you already have another guaranteed dead spot in Punto, and quite possibly two more in Casilla and Young, they need another bat. Sure, Kemp isn't the best centerfielder in the world, but that lineup has Cuddyer and Kubel as the third and fourth best hitters. They need a stick badly.

2007-11-29 06:43:23
61.   Terry A
37 - The fact that the club has already talked to JP about moving from "his position" to LF shows that they are willing to stray from their original Pierre plan.

Has there been an indication that the planned move has been discussed with Pierre? ISTM that The Great Communicator has gone public with quite a few changes before discussing them with the players affected. I wouldn't be surprised if Pierre is still in the dark, or that he learned of his potential position switch the same way we did.

2007-11-29 06:44:56
62.   gpellamjr
60 They need a stick badly.

At first I read that as "They need a stick, baby." I thought you had come up with the catch phrase that was going to make you famous. Oh well.

2007-11-29 06:48:02
63.   regfairfield
62 I woke up at three in the morning with a massive hangover. Not really in the catchphrase spawning mood right now.
2007-11-29 07:05:49
64.   Penarol1916
59. Outside of possible injury concerns (which I believe DeWitt has had a back issue in the past as well), why would you say that DeWitt will prove better than LaRoche. LaRoche has been rated better defensively, and has shown far more power and patience than DeWitt at every stop of the way. I am hopeful that DeWitt breaks out this year, but I'm just not sure what you see that says he will be better than LaRoche (my 3rd baseman of the future is Gallagher anyway).
2007-11-29 07:08:11
65.   gpellamjr
63 That's a shame, because I've always thought of you as the Dick Vitale of the Dodger blogging community.
2007-11-29 07:34:42
66.   Robert Daeley
More drumbeats for stupid moves, by Steve Dilbeck:

"While Dodgers talk, Angels get deals done"

2007-11-29 07:37:48
67.   Jon Weisman
61 - There was a story a few weeks ago where Pierre expressed somber "they'll do what they want to do"-ness.
2007-11-29 07:39:46
68.   regfairfield
65 You'd be surprised at how often I hear that. Must be the looks.
2007-11-29 07:46:29
69.   Bob Timmermann
Thank God that this kid is a hockey player and not a potential centefielder for the Rockies:

2007-11-29 08:14:30
70.   Eric Stephen
Has there been an indication that the planned move has been discussed with Pierre?

2007-11-29 08:15:57
71.   Vishal
20 nomo is one of my favorite dodgers of all time. i felt SO bad for him when he was pitching for us in 2004, and it was completely plain as day that the man was hurt, yet jim tracy kept trotting him out there game after game to get pounded. i thought he deserved better. you could see from his body language how ashamed he was to be in that situation.
2007-11-29 08:29:33
72.   LogikReader
There is a real irony to the Angels suddenly becoming what we feared the Dodgers would be: the team that nabbed every shiny toy on the block aka the Yankees.

It's odd, but you know, the Angels still have some young talent, so the scenario is slightly different here. On the other hand, if they were just going to sign Hunter for almost 20 mil/yr, what would have stopped them from going the extra mile and pushing harder for A-Rod instead?

2007-11-29 08:31:07
73.   Eric Stephen
What is a reasonable ETA for Kershaw to the majors? I'm sure a lot depends on his performance in 2008, but if he stays a Dodger, will we see him in early to mid 2009, when he's 21? Or is 2010 more likely?

Just wondering.

2007-11-29 08:32:39
74.   Eric Stephen
I wonder if the Angels really had a shot at A-Rod. Maybe they would have gone after him had he not reopened talks with the Yankees.
2007-11-29 08:35:31
75.   regfairfield
73 I think mid 2009 is a good guess. Maybe late this year if we desperately need a pitcher. I would be very hesistant about starting to burn option years at age 20, so every effort should be taken to keep him off the 40 man if possible.
2007-11-29 08:38:17
76.   JoeyP
I just found out today I missed out on meeting Jake Peavy, Roy Oswalt, and Brad Penny.

Apparently, all three of them were in Champaign, IL (where I live) and hanging out at Kam's last night. Kam's is a regular college bar (but usually just frosh/sophs go there), but the people that went out last night and saw them said they were really nice guys. They took pictures with anyone that asked, and Oswalt was turning down the girls coming up to him since he was married.

Oswalt owns land in Champaign County, and they were all in town to hunt deer. The 2nd Illinois shot gun season just started this weekend

Pretty cool to see 3 CY Young Canidates just hanging out. I'll try to link some pictures if any one took any.

2007-11-29 08:38:18
77.   CanuckDodger
73 -- Jim Callis at Baseball America said recently that he could see Kershaw needing as little as 3 more MONTHS in the minors, which would mean we could see Kershaw in L.A. in July 2008. I would say it is doubtful, given how reluctant Colletti is to trust the young guys, but Colletti did bring up Kemp after just a couple months of Double A ball.
2007-11-29 08:42:52
78.   JoeyP

There's a link to an article about the players visits. One of the reports from the U of I's student newspaper was there and took some pictures.

2007-11-29 08:49:58
79.   ToyCannon
Every thing I read points to Kershaw joining us in mid season. Ned wouldn't have pushed him to AA in 2007 if he wasn't going to fasttrack him to the majors in 2008 if his performance warrants it. They won't burn an arbitration year so no way he makes the team out of spring training but if anyone is struggling in the rotation and his bulb continues to shine, he'll be pitching in 2008 for the Dodgers.
2007-11-29 08:53:43
80.   Kevin Lewis
Have the Padres extended Peavy yet? That has to be one of their number one priorities, right?
2007-11-29 08:54:38
81.   regfairfield
80 No, but they've got 18 more months to do it. I'm sure they're making every effort to.
2007-11-29 08:57:15
82.   CanuckDodger
79 -- I still doubt it, the Kemp precedent notwithstanding. I think James McDonald, while not likely to have nearly as bright a future as Kershaw, is closer to being MLB ready (just look at the difference in their stats as starters in Jacksonville). I could even see Orenduff getting the call before Kershaw. And then there is always Houlton and Stults. Colletti's noises on the subject aside, we really AREN'T lacking pitching depth -- just the PVL's Colletti loves.
2007-11-29 08:57:50
83.   regfairfield
79 That idea frightens me. I really don't want to get into an Edwin Jackson situation with Kershaw where he loses a little something, then we have to trade him for Danys Baez because he's out of options at age 23.

When he comes up, it needs to be for good.

2007-11-29 09:00:04
84.   regfairfield
82 Plus the fact that Orenduff and McDonald are already on the 40 man helps a lot. I think the Dodgers depth chart right now is something like:


This can change depending on how the year goes, but unless Kershaw is utterly destroying AA, I can't see him getting the call until all those guys go down.

2007-11-29 09:00:24
85.   Eric Stephen
There have been reports down here that both sides are working on a deal, and that Peavy is willing to accept a discount to stay in SD.
2007-11-29 09:02:57
86.   LogikReader

I'd do it too! Who wouldn't want to live in San Diego?

2007-11-29 09:15:07
87.   Kevin Lewis

It is nice to see some home town loyalty. I can't imagine him pitching for anyone else. He is just like Pujols...I want to hate the guy, but he is an awesome player and seems like a great person. It is much easier for me to dislike Manny.

2007-11-29 09:19:53
88.   ToyCannon
If Kershaw is still a Dodger and the team is competitive and the rotation or bullpen needs help, Kershaw will be pitching for us in 2008. Your not going to waste innings after June with the likes of Stults, Houlton, and Orenduff when you have a talent like Kershaw ready to go.
Maybe you go with Elbert and McDonald 1st but I feel Kershaw will press the issue. If he's as good as all the scouts are saying, you can't waste his arm. He would be a year older then when Felix Hernandez made his debut and Felix acquitted himself very well.

The following pitchers all pitched significant innings at age 20 since 1947. Other then Bonderman most of them were either quite a bit better then league average or at least league average.

I had a scout tell me he had the best stuff he's seen in the minors since Rick Ankiel. Ankiel's 20 year old season was kinda good. Do you waste that in AA in August?

2007-11-29 09:20:17
89.   Daniel Zappala
Who wouldn't want to live in San Diego?

No skiing.

2007-11-29 09:20:25
90.   Kevin Lewis
So, Yorvit is going back to Colorado. Who blew that deal? Did his agent speak up too soon about the Mets?
2007-11-29 09:22:55
91.   Bob Timmermann
I'd rather be beaten with a sack of doorknobs than live in San Diego.
2007-11-29 09:23:31
92.   MC Safety
87 I love the universal excuse that is "It's just Manny being Manny".
2007-11-29 09:31:14
93.   CanuckDodger
90 -- And look what happened to Ankiel:). And Edwin Jackson, the last 20-year-old Dodger to pitch in the majors. I don't know when Kershaw will pitch for L.A., but when he first comes up, I have every expectation that his control and walk rate will be like 2007 Chad Billingsley's, and as happened with Billingsley, it will be a short-term problem. I don't really want Kershaw to have to deal with that in 2008. For the sake of Kershaw's long-term progress, let him pitch all year in Jacksonville in 2008, the way Billlingsley spent all of his age 20 season in Jacksonville.
2007-11-29 09:32:37
94.   ToyCannon
Why ski when you can surf and the girls have bikinis instead of layers?
2007-11-29 09:33:20
95.   Daniel Zappala
91 Bob, when you don't like something, you always leave out the juicy details. I like to know why.
2007-11-29 09:34:32
96.   Bob Timmermann
I just believe that there has to be someone who dislikes San Diego. And it's me!
2007-11-29 09:36:26
97.   CanuckDodger
93 -- Sorry, that should have been Kershaw's "control and walk rate will be like 2006 Chad Billingsley's," when Kershaw first arrives in the majors.
2007-11-29 09:36:53
98.   Daniel Zappala
94 It's your fault if you haven't learned the fun that comes with unwrapping a present.
2007-11-29 09:37:44
99.   Eric Stephen
Doorknobs have always been my sack-filler of choice for beatings.
2007-11-29 09:37:48
100.   underdog
I have a friend who lives in San Diego to go to grad school at UCSD, and he complains constantly about it. "Staid, boring, nothing to do, there's no there there," were just some of the words and phrases he used... Of course, it is beautiful, and the people are nice, and the weather is good, too. But he's more of an urban dwelling intellectual who prefers darkness anyway, so it's not his favorite place.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-29 09:39:00
101.   underdog
Meanwhile, here's Tim Brown's breakdown on the players most likely to be traded, or at least talked about, at the Winter Meetings:

I liked his bit on Miguel Cabrera:
"Downside: Defensively, he's snacking his way to first base." (We don't need to debate that again, I just liked how he phrased that.)

2007-11-29 09:40:46
102.   Andrew Shimmin
Nickels are cheaper (unless you steal the doorknobs), heavier, and more useful after they've served their purpose.
2007-11-29 09:41:22
103.   ToyCannon
Unwrapping was never a problem, getting the present who wanted to be unwrapped was usually the struggle.
2007-11-29 09:44:52
104.   LogikReader

I'd just like to get a present!

2007-11-29 09:47:00
105.   MC Safety
102 Especially when they are already rolled!
2007-11-29 09:50:04
106.   LogikReader
How much is a roll of knickels worth from the bank?

"Knickels?" oops, I was thinking about tonight's Knicks/Celtics game. There's also this football game on, I hear.

2007-11-29 09:54:23
107.   Eric Stephen
The only purpose nickels serve is to buy more doorknobs. However, stolen doorknobs are much more gratifying.
2007-11-29 09:56:14
108.   Andrew Shimmin
Nickel rolls are $2.
2007-11-29 09:56:34
109.   Bob Timmermann
Tonight's NFL game can only be seen in Cuba and the Maritime Provinces of Canada.
2007-11-29 10:00:32
110.   Sushirabbit
I thought Bob was the person for Delaware. I'm confused.
2007-11-29 10:02:22
111.   ToyCannon
Bob is the only person for many hatreds.
2007-11-29 10:02:24
112.   Jacob L
109 Hey, I actually get the NFL network! However, since the wife and I will be watching 30 Rock tonight, your statement is still correct, to the best of my knowledge.

BTW, I'm also not a big fan of San Diego. Its best attribute is proximity to Mexico.

2007-11-29 10:05:42
113.   Bob Timmermann
I look out for those who are unhated and hate them.

Greg Brock took care of Thanksgiving.

2007-11-29 10:06:30
114.   Bob Timmermann
You mean just three exits down the Pasadena Freeway, the fabled NFL Network lives?


2007-11-29 10:06:34
115.   old dodger fan
109 It will also be seen in my boss's living room. Very little chance of me getting an invite.
2007-11-29 10:09:09
116.   Kevin Lewis
I could handle living in San Diego. Can't beat the weather and calming atmosphere.
2007-11-29 10:14:35
117.   LogikReader

The NFL network is on Directv too. I have Cox Cable, as does San Diego, so both of us are covered.

30 Rock is only a half hour show, the other 2.5 hours is still available for the rest of the game. I take it you're in our time zone, so the game might even be over before 30 rock starts. I love that show too!

-- they still have new episodes left?

2007-11-29 10:19:15
118.   ToyCannon
It would be a good night to find a Packer bar.

Don't think your efforts don't go unappreciated by those who were hateless before you took up their cause.

2007-11-29 10:19:37
119.   Bob Timmermann
I will not live in the same county as Ted Leitner.
2007-11-29 10:22:13
120.   jystakes
IF I could sign Johan to a multi-year extension, I would trade Laroche Kershaw and Ethier for him. If the dealbreaker was whether to add Broxton, I probably would do it. That's giving up a lot, but you're getting the best pitcher in the game in his prime for the next 5-7 years. A guy who is going to face all the other aces in the playoffs and pitch games 1,4 and 7 for you in all post-season play. I will go to sleep just fine knowing that's true. Kuroda wouldn't be needed, and we can sign Jones. To go into the offseason and come out with the best manager in the game, the best pitcher in the game, and keeping Loney, Bills, and Kemp? I would applaud Ned. can you imagine this team?



2007-11-29 10:27:57
121.   D4P
Nickel rolls are $2

How many nickels do you get...?

2007-11-29 10:31:08
122.   regfairfield
Literally hundreds.
2007-11-29 10:32:10
123.   Andrew Shimmin
121- Bob disdains San Diego. I don't like jokes set up on a tee.

You do the math.

Shoot. . .

2007-11-29 10:38:24
124.   blue22
101 - Downside: Defensively, he's snacking his way to first base.

See, that's just a cheap shot. He's not a bad third baseman because he's fat. He's a bad third baseman because he can't catch the ball to save his life. He looks like Pedro Guerrero over there (sorry Jon).

2007-11-29 10:40:30
125.   Eric Stephen
Leitner is the best anti-SD reason I've ever heard.

Also, I believe Plaschke lives in Oceanside.

Damnit, I'm calling Bekins.

2007-11-29 10:41:05
126.   Kevin Lewis


Are you sighting something from the future?

2007-11-29 10:41:51
127.   Kevin Lewis

If that is true, than that is the best argument against SD I have seen.

2007-11-29 10:42:25
128.   underdog
124 Maybe he meant he's eating the ball when he plays third?

Oh man, dirty trick - I was a third of the way into the article on Lamar Odom in the Times today when I realized it was TJ Simers. I couldn't figure out why something about it was irritating, but was interested in the topic so I kept reading. That'll teach me!

2007-11-29 10:44:23
129.   Benaiah
123 - Andrew, you might not remember this, but I had a dispute with T-Mobile where my account went into collections for about $400 for a phone I had for two days and returned. Dealing with collection companies is like trying to talk your car off of a tow lot, they have you and why should they let you go? But a year and a half after I returned the phone I finally got T-Mobile to agree to dispute the claim and I only have to pay 10 bucks for the 2 days I had the phone. Not too shabby, though it took certified letters, two collection agencies, 30 hours on the phone, a drinking problem, ect. I still feel like I won... by not losing by too much.
2007-11-29 10:52:23
130.   Andrew Shimmin
129- I remember. Congratulations! Your old blog is still up, unlike some people's (ahem, Mr. Grant).

2007-11-29 10:55:45
131.   regfairfield
130 I just noticed that today.
2007-11-29 10:59:42
132.   Andrew Shimmin
131- I demand an uninterrupted, life time supply of free ice cream.
2007-11-29 11:01:35
133.   blue22
117 - Not only is the NFL network on Directv, it's in HD too. I'm not sure I want to know how much higher my bill is because of this, but for about 3-6 hours per year, it's worth it.
2007-11-29 11:03:53
134.   Bob Timmermann
That woman who does the commercials for DirecTV says she only gets 60 seconds to tell you why DirecTV is so much better than cable.

Only 60 seconds.

Repeated 100 times.

2007-11-29 11:04:26
135.   Kevin Lewis

Yikes. I lost my battle with AT&T to the tune of $450.

2007-11-29 11:05:19
136.   Kevin Lewis

Every time i see the commercial, I think of your bitterness towards the ad...and it makes me laugh.

2007-11-29 11:06:44
137.   Bob Timmermann
The commerical only steels my hatred for DirecTV more.
2007-11-29 11:07:34
138.   Eric Stephen
It would be a much more enjoyable commercial if she actually perished at the end of the commercial...she really did have only 60 seconds!
2007-11-29 11:09:44
139.   old dodger fan
137 Is it just the ad or is there some other reason you don't like it? I ask because I am thinking of getting DirecTV. Probably won't decide anything in the next month or 2 but any info is appreciated.
2007-11-29 11:12:21
140.   Bob Timmermann
I hate DirecTV's whole attitude of "You have to get DirecTV or life as you know it will end. Satellite companies are good. Cable companies are evil!"

Bah! A plague on both their houses.

2007-11-29 11:15:13
141.   Andrew Shimmin
As long as we're doing off-top Thursday, I have a question. I impulse-bought a pair of unfinished corduroy trousers the other day. I'm taking them to the cleaners today, to get hemmed, but can't decide whether it's permissible, corduroy-wise, to get cuffs or if they have to be finished straight. They are pleated, if that makes a difference. Any corduroy aficionados out there? This is my first pair.
2007-11-29 11:20:41
142.   Benaiah
140 - I hate cable companies are their pseudo monopolies on most markets. Cable companies have agreed not to compete with each other and have divied up the country into Comcast regions, AOL Time Warner regions ect. I have no choice but to get Comcast cable, so at least DirecTV provides a little competition. My cable is horrible and very expensive. I would switch but I don't know if I am ready to go dish just yet.
2007-11-29 11:21:14
143.   wireroom
139 well in my humble opinion, i have really liked driectv the last few years. i get more basic channels, NFL network and there have been waaaaaaaaaaay less techinical issues or cable boxes dying.
2007-11-29 11:22:01
144.   wireroom
2007-11-29 11:23:10
145.   Benaiah
141 - I don't think I would get a cuff, it is possible, but the backside of cords looks different so the cuff would look bizarre.
2007-11-29 11:24:32
146.   Kevin Lewis

I lost my last pair at the Grand Canyon, and I have not bought a new one since.

2007-11-29 11:25:16
147.   Kevin Lewis
I've been happy with DishNetwork
2007-11-29 11:26:18
148.   Hythloday
From Stark:
The Rangers, for instance, are believed to have kicked the tires on a group that includes Rocco Baldelli, Jim Edmonds and Juan Pierre.

It may be a steaming pile of rumor, but it is the sort of steaming pile of rumor that you can warm your hands by.

Sorry if this was already posted.

2007-11-29 11:27:53
149.   regfairfield
148 Daniels is probably the most hardcore saber guy out there, so I'm thinking it's not true.
2007-11-29 11:29:33
150.   bigcpa
If Minnehaha takes Coco or Melky as the centerpiece of a Johan deal we need to offer up Pierre/Kershaw/Abreu. Castillo & Bartlett were batting 1 and 2 for them most of the year. Ned can sell Pierre as their leadoff guy over those two chumps.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-11-29 11:29:53
151.   old dodger fan
142 I can choose between Verizon and Cox for cable as well as internet and phone. Verizon is a bit slower but is in the process of upgrading. The upgrade should make it to my neighborhood by sometime in '08 so that might be the way I go. I love choices.
2007-11-29 11:30:52
152.   Marty
Every pair of cords I own has cuffs
2007-11-29 11:32:41
153.   natepurcell
Daniels is probably the most hardcore saber guy out there, so I'm thinking it's not true.

Daniels traded A-Gon and Chris Young for a consistently injured pitcher in the last year before free agency and a middle reliever!

....middle reliever!!

2007-11-29 11:32:45
154.   robohobo
I was reading on capitol punishment that the Nationals are looking for a center fielder. I wonder if they would let go of Zimmerman for Laroche and a center fielder. Maybe Kemp/Laroche for Zimmerman/Church. Or because its Bowden, Pierre/Laroche/Broxton for Zimmerman/Church.
2007-11-29 11:32:47
155.   PHilldodger
148 An early Christmas present. Can we get Victor Diaz back to be the right-handed pinch hitter/part-time platoon starter in the OF?
2007-11-29 11:37:15
156.   natepurcell
Thinking back on it, has Daniels made any good trades?
2007-11-29 11:37:48
157.   underdog
141 Forget those pants! Get yourself a pair of plus-fours.
2007-11-29 11:39:03
158.   regfairfield
156 Good on paper, plenty.

The Teixiera deal was good, and he did get Carlos Lee and two draft picks without giving up all that much.

2007-11-29 11:39:31
159.   Benaiah
I guess you can have it either way.

Here is a picture of cords with cuffs:

I don't have any cords anymore, though I remember loving the last pair I had.

2007-11-29 11:39:35
160.   underdog
156 What about the Texiera trade, and its bountiful goodness of young talent?
2007-11-29 11:43:10
161.   Eric Enders
154 The Nats would not trade Zimmerman for anything short of the Hope diamond.
2007-11-29 11:43:12
162.   ToyCannon
I thought his Tex trade was brilliant for a guy who was going to walk no matter what.

I have seen no indication from his transactions that he's a hard code sabremetrician so I have to take Andrews word for it.

2007-11-29 11:43:35
163.   Eric Stephen
The day the Nats trade Zimmerman is the day a peach-eating Bob Timmermann declares his love for DirecTV while wearing a Frank Robinson Giants jersey.
2007-11-29 11:43:44
164.   natepurcell

2 months of Carlos Lee for Mench and Co-Co?

eh i guess. Cordero was a huge boost for the Brewers though.

The Tex deal looks good on paper since the Rangers suck and need all the decent players they can get. But man, that Soriano and Padres deal were pretty sour.

Depending on what defensive metric Daniels goes by, he could see Pierre as a defensive upgrade, while playing lower than market price for him (with a subsidy from the Dodgers).

2007-11-29 11:44:25
165.   Bob Timmermann
But the Hope Diamond is cursed!
2007-11-29 11:46:21
166.   regfairfield
164 A lot of people liked the Soriano deal when it happened, mainly because Soriano had no defense and couldn't hit a lick outside of Texas (and couldn't really hit in Texas either). Things just sort of ended badly, can't blame him for that one.

I also think that Chris Young would be really terrible in Texas due to his extreme flyball tendencies.

2007-11-29 11:52:40
167.   robohobo
161. 163. Why? Zimmerman is no Cabrera, at least not yet.
2007-11-29 11:58:36
168.   Sushirabbit
148, 149 it's almost enough to make me long for the days of Steve and Choi Grenades.
2007-11-29 12:00:12
169.   Eric Enders
167 He's a hometown kid, already an idol there, and the first star in the history of the franchise. Not to mention the best defensive third baseman of his generation.

If they traded him, it'd make the outcry over the LoDuca trade seem like a mere peep.

2007-11-29 12:00:15
170.   regfairfield
167 Because he's the only really desireable player in the organization.
2007-11-29 12:01:56
171.   Bob Timmermann
Sam DC's kids would cry their eyes out if Zimmerman were traded! They would be bereft!
2007-11-29 12:08:11
172.   robohobo
169. So, Bowden wouldn't trade Zimmerman because he wouldn't want to get Plasked out of a job ala Depo? (or whatever the DC equivalent is)
2007-11-29 12:08:26
173.   robohobo
169. So, Bowden wouldn't trade Zimmerman because he wouldn't want to get Plasked out of a job ala Depo? (or whatever the DC equivalent is)
2007-11-29 12:09:03
174.   robohobo
sorry about the double post. (my first)
2007-11-29 12:10:46
175.   natepurcell
How much would this team improve with Jones replacing Pierre, Laroche the starting third basemen and Kuroda at the back end of the rotation with Loaiza as the long man instead of Hendrickson?

Enough to push it to 88-90?

2007-11-29 12:13:34
176.   ToyCannon
Just a FYI but Keith Law just predicted that Bedard would end up in LA and that he is the best value of the names being bandied about (Miggy, Johan, Haren).

He also seems to be very very wary of Johan's falloff in Sept and that he wouldn't trade for him with the idea of extending him until he pitches in 2008. In looking at the game logs for 2007 I don't see the concern. Not that it matters because I don't think we are players for him.

2007-11-29 12:13:44
177.   underdog
I'd rather have Zimmerman than Cabrera, frankly. No way is he traded unless Bowden has some sort of mental breakdown (beyond his usual).

175 At least.

2007-11-29 12:17:42
178.   ToyCannon
Was Pedro Feliz the best defensive 3rd baseman of his generation?
2007-11-29 12:22:10
179.   regfairfield
175 I think we're pretty close to 88 wins as it stands. We were one of the unluckiest teams in baseball in terms of third order winning percentage. I think with those improvements we become a 93 win team or so.
2007-11-29 12:22:31
180.   robohobo
171. Sam DC could comfort his kids with Kemp's homeruns and LaRoche's OBA.

You all may be right about Zimmerman. I just find it interesting that with D Young just traded and names like Haren and Cabrera going around as available several posters are dogmatically saying that Zimmerman in untouchable. If I'm Bowden and I see a package of Kemp/LaRoche/Broxton, I'm going to at least think about it.

2007-11-29 12:28:01
181.   ToyCannon
Can't say I understand why Zimmerman is being so highly thought of. He's a slightly above average offensive performer with a solid defensive rep. He's a nice player, he's not great and in his best full season he won't touch offensively what Miggy will do in his worse season over the next 5 years.
2007-11-29 12:30:33
182.   Andrew Shimmin
Thanks for the cord-thoughts, everybody. If they're long enough for tuck under cuffs (I hadn't thought about it, so thanks especially for that; I had a bad experience with a different dry cleaner's bizarre tailoring shortcut once, and it's made me vigilant in requesting exactly what I want) I'll do that.
2007-11-29 12:35:04
183.   ToyCannon
Channeling Bob, I hate cords. Always have.
2007-11-29 12:35:37
184.   Bob Timmermann
I haven't worn corduroys since Catholic school.

Let's not go any further with that.

2007-11-29 12:36:44
185.   Eric Enders
I saw the best third basemen of my generation destroyed by snack cakes, hysterical and naked,
Dragging themselves through the mean streats at dawn, looking for their Little Debbie fix.
2007-11-29 12:37:59
186.   silverwidow says the Marlins want Kemp and Broxton to head any trade offers from us.
2007-11-29 12:39:14
187.   trainwreck
In the ESPN article about the Red Sox obtaining Santana, they say they have agreed to deal Coco Crisp, Jon Lester, Jed Lowrie, and a 4th prospect, most likely Michael Bowden.
2007-11-29 12:39:54
188.   Penarol1916
180. I don't think he's untouchable so much as he is much more valuable to the Nationals than he would be for most other teams. They are still relatively new in the city and trying to form an identity and have decided to build it around him. Would they trade him for what we've been rumored to offer Cabrera et al . . .? Probably, but the Dodgers probably wouldn't do that deal.
2007-11-29 12:41:05
189.   Daniel Zappala
186 And they likely want Kendrick and Weaver from the Angels. It's just that the Angels are better positioned to give away some players.
2007-11-29 12:43:19
190.   old dodger fan
186 IF it is true could Cabrera go to 1B and Loney to the OF? If that is all they want I'd do it and I love watching Matt Kemp play.
2007-11-29 12:44:36
191.   silverwidow
190 Just to clarify, Kemp and Broxton BEGINS the trade.
2007-11-29 12:45:48
192.   old dodger fan
Calling Zimmerman a DC home town boy is a bit of a stretch. He went to HS in Virginia Beach (180 miles from DC) and to the University of VA (about 100 miles). He was born in Washington, NC but I don't think that counts.
2007-11-29 12:46:20
193.   D4P
Andrew's fashion sense is hopeless.

Rule 1: No pleats
Rule 2: No cuffs

2007-11-29 12:52:06
194.   Penarol1916
193. There is an ongoing debate in various chat forums about pleats and the consensus seems to be that pleats are necessary for men who are particularly well-endowed. So I'm wondering why D4P has never heard of this exception to the rule.
2007-11-29 12:55:30
195.   D4P
pleats are necessary for men who are particularly well-endowed

That pleats may help hide endowments does not make them "necessary", no more than frumpy sweatshirts are necessary to hide female endowments.

2007-11-29 12:57:00
196.   Andrew Shimmin
D4P only turned to academia after his dreams of being Chief Haberdasher to the Association of Argentine Pimps fell through.
2007-11-29 12:57:32
197.   Penarol1916
Well, it is more of a comfort issue rather than a hiding issue as male endowments tend to be more sensitive to the tightness of their coverings than female endowments.
2007-11-29 12:58:19
198.   trainwreck
Look what you started, D4P.
2007-11-29 13:01:05
199.   D4P
Ah, I see. Well, flat-front pants don't have to be tight and less roomy than their pleated counterparts.

We shouldn't assume that all flat-front pants are of the Chief Haberdasher to the Association of Argentine Pimps variety.

2007-11-29 13:05:35
200.   Penarol1916
All I can to say is that when it comes to endowments I am not Harvard, so I am not speaking from experience, just from what I have heard. Flat front pants do tend to be less roomy across the front than pleated pants of the same size. I suppose if you wanted to have your pants custom made, you could have flat-fronts with the necessary room, but otherwise, not necessarily.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-11-29 13:09:12
201.   D4P
Along those lines, one thing that separates "good" fashion from "bad" is fabric quantity. Bad fashion (especially, bad American fashion) uses way too much fabric and is way too baggy. Good fashion fits properly, which means that it's not baggy and it actually shows the dimensions of your body.

Some people are (understandably) uncomfortable showing the dimensions of their body, and thus (unwittingly) choose bad fashion.

2007-11-29 13:10:18
202.   Terry A
195 deserves nomination for the quote appearing on the cover of Best of Dodger Thoughts 2.
2007-11-29 13:14:31
203.   Penarol1916
201. Oh you sound just like brother that likes tight clothing and I would certainly never take advise on pleats or cuffs from him.
2007-11-29 13:16:01
204.   old dodger fan
202 I like 163 better for the cover.
2007-11-29 13:18:06
205.   LogikReader
Of all the things in the world to diverge to! Pants??


2007-11-29 13:21:52
206.   trainwreck
BRO reports KD is basically gone!!!

Everybody dance now!!!

2007-11-29 13:28:47
207.   D4P
BRO reports KD is basically gone!!!

KD Lang?
Kal Daniels?
Keith Dudemeister?

2007-11-29 13:33:00
208.   Eric Enders
Around here KD stands for only one thing and it's Kevin Durant.

But I think you mean the football coach of the school whose basketball team will be losing to Kevin Durant's former team this weekend.

2007-11-29 13:36:04
209.   trainwreck
Still dreaming of the guy that took you to the second round.
2007-11-29 13:37:01
210.   Jon Weisman
2007-11-29 18:43:44
211.   Vishal
98 every shiny bauble under the sun is gonna be a present under your christmas tree. sometimes it's nice to window shop :)
2007-11-29 18:43:58
212.   Vishal
isn't gonna be

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