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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodger Rehab Update
2007-11-30 16:53
by Jon Weisman

From Ken Gurnick at

Trainer Stan Conte said all injured Dodgers are on schedule to be competitive in Spring Training. Specifically, Jason Schmidt (shoulder surgery) has just begun to toss. Brad Penny (sports hernia) and Derek Lowe (hip labrum) finished the season healthy and required no surgery. Hong-chih Kuo (elbow surgery) is on his normal offseason program. Tony Abreu (hernia surgery) has completed his initial recovery and is about to resume baseball activities. Rafael Furcal (ankle sprain) feels good enough to be considering winter ball. Nomar Garciaparra (calf) is undergoing his normal offseason rehab and training regimen. Chin-lung Hu (hamstring) has recovered and will join the Taiwan national team. Yhency Brazoban (shoulder surgery) is about to begin bullpen sessions. Jason Repko (hamstring surgery, ankle stress fracture) is resting the ankle, but the hamstring is healed. Minor Leaguers Scott Elbert (shoulder surgery) and Bryan Morris (elbow surgery) are also expected to be ready for Spring Training.

I haven't mentioned Kuo's name here in a while, but I'd love to see him back in the mix for a starting spot.

Comments (521)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-30 16:58:18
1.   KG16
Anyone else find it kind of funny that Nomar has a "normal offseason rehab" program?

Here's hoping that this isn't the smoke blowing we've seen the last couple of years and that the guys are all ready to go in a couple of months.

2007-11-30 17:01:25
2.   Eric Stephen
It will be interesting if a 21-year-old Bryan Morris can reassert his prospect status in 2008. I certainly hope so.
2007-11-30 17:02:57
3.   ToyCannon
While I agree with everything Eric said 1/2 of me says I'd still trade Kershaw for either Johan or Miggy. Not because I don't think Kershaw will pan out but because I'd rather see Johan pitching his age 29-36 seasons or Miggy hitting his age 25-30 seasons with the Dodgers then Kershaw's 20-25 seasons. The other 1/2 of me wants to watch Logans Army of Loney, LaRoche, Kemp, Martin, Hu, Billingsley, Elbert, McDonald, Meloan, lead by Colonel Kershaw knock the snot out the beasts from the East.

The part I love about Santana is this:
December 13, 1999: Drafted by the Florida Marlins from the Houston Astros in the 1999 rule 5 draft.
Ranks, right up there with D4P.

2007-11-30 17:08:39
4.   Jon Weisman
3 - Am I an idiot? I didn't know that at all. I always assumed he was original Twins property.
2007-11-30 17:09:55
5.   Eric Stephen
And then he was traded by Florida for Jared Camp!!

Colonel Kershaw is a great nickname.

2007-11-30 17:10:18
6.   Bob Timmermann
If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.
2007-11-30 17:11:11
7.   Jon Weisman
5 ... of Logan's Heroes?
2007-11-30 17:11:44
8.   Andrew Shimmin
I knew he was a rule five draftee, I didn't remember that the Twins weren't the drafting team.
2007-11-30 17:13:19
9.   ToyCannon
Nope, I'd love to know the name of the long forgotten stiff that the Astro's felt they needed to protect on the 40 man instead of Johan.
2007-11-30 17:13:47
10.   Eric Stephen
The draft & trade from Houston shenanigans of Johan have by now surpassed the clubhouse leader in that department:

11/18/97: Tampa Bay drafts Bobby Abreu from Houston with the 6th pick in the expansion draft, then trades him to Philly for Kevin Stocker.

2007-11-30 17:16:44
11.   ToyCannon
The Twins were in on him as it was a draft day deal. Kind of like the Josh Hamilton deal last year where the Cubs drafted him and then sold him to the Reds. I guess the Cubs felt they had to have CLiff FLoyd on the roster.
2007-11-30 17:19:32
12.   ToyCannon
How can they be surpassed when the TB deal was before the Astro deal?

Besides the baseball God was just getting back at the Astro's for Jeff Bagwell.

2007-11-30 17:21:58
13.   Eric Stephen
I meant Houston losing Abreu was bad enough, but losing Santana (2 years later) was worse.
2007-11-30 17:23:06
14.   Andrew Shimmin
It more than makes up for losing Big Papi to the rule five, but imagine how good the Twins might have been if they hadn't. . .
2007-11-30 17:24:13
15.   Eric Stephen
I thought Big Papi was just non-tendered, Alex Cora style. Same principle though.
2007-11-30 17:24:38
16.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops, have I got that wrong? I thought Ortiz had been rule fived, but bb-ref says he was just released.
2007-11-30 17:25:35
17.   ToyCannon
They didn't lose Big Papi to the rule 5, they just non-tendered him because they were cheap.... and had no clue what they had even though every roto player in the country was screaming, play him you idiots, play him.
2007-11-30 17:28:22
18.   Eric Stephen
After his first arbitration year (2002), the Twins non-tendered Ortiz, and he signed as a FA with Boston.

His contracts have been very "club friendly" for the Sox, too.

2007-11-30 17:29:51
19.   ToyCannon
I still feel that if HSC had been given the chance that Boston gave Ortiz that he would have had a chance at a Ortiz light career. I'll take that thought to my grave and only the devil will be able to pry it from my mind.
2007-11-30 17:30:54
20.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, there you go.

I got a form email from Baseball-Reference, today, saying their application for press credentials to the Winter Meetings had been rejected. I can't decide whom to pester about this. I could send a barely lucid email to whatever general MLBAM email address I find. But that sounds like more work than I'm willing to do, even though I do find it outrageous. But I was thinking, isn't this something that somebody else could do? Bob? You like quixotic battles.

2007-11-30 17:33:32
21.   ToyCannon
Gotcha - I'm a little slow.
2007-11-30 17:37:20
22.   Bluebleeder87

That's the guy I'm looking out for this '08 season & to be honest I don't know were he'll end up (A-Ball or Jax) but for some reason I'm excited about 'em.

2007-11-30 17:40:39
23.   ToyCannon
Tony Jackson on his BA gig says that Andy Laroche's stock has risen.
2007-11-30 17:40:51
24.   Bluebleeder87
14 ,15

I thought the Twins just gave up on him...

2007-11-30 17:41:46
25.   Bob Timmermann
MLBAM doesn't give out the credentials. It's MLB.
2007-11-30 17:42:23
26.   Ken Arneson
20 I went to the meetings in Anaheim a few years ago without a press pass, and it didn't really seem like a pass had much benefit besides getting you into the room with all the computer hookups, and the occasional press conference. All the action is in the lobby, anyway.
2007-11-30 17:43:12
27.   bigcpa
23 Would you mind copy/pasting his comments?
2007-11-30 17:49:15
28.   Andrew Shimmin
25, 26- I appreciate you're trying to talk me off the ledge, but I swear MLBAM will suffer for this indignity, with which they evidently had nothing to do. Where's that GameDay blog, again? I'm going to go leave a scathing comment there.
2007-11-30 17:52:12
29.   Andrew Shimmin
28- Done. I feel like I really made a difference.
2007-11-30 17:54:00
30.   Andrew Shimmin
Eek. "Your trying. . ."
2007-11-30 18:01:22
31.   Ken Arneson
28 It's for the best, I swear!

2007-11-30 18:54:57
32.   CanuckDodger
Jackson's Baseball America article says that there is a strong chance that LaRoche will be the Dodgers' opening day third baseman, but he will have to perform well in spring training to "seal the deal." Jackson also says that Delwyn Young is probably going to be the Dodgers' fourth outfielder, something we are all expecting but it was nice to see it in black and white.

The thing about LaRoche having to perform well in spring training is that Logan White has said that LaRoche has ALWAYS looked bad in spring training, even when it was just minor league spring training. Some guys are slow to get their act together in March, and that is true of many career major leaguers too. Obviously it's a much bigger problem for a guy who isn't already a PROVEN major leaguer and is expected to earn his MLB job in the spring.

2007-11-30 19:10:10
33.   natepurcell
It will be interesting if a 21-year-old Bryan Morris can reassert his prospect status in 2008. I certainly hope so.

Definitely. Like every other first round Logan White pitcher, Morris had nasty, nasty stuff. If that comes back, we are looking at another top 50 prospect.

I was so ecstatic when we drafted him since I really wanted him in the previous year's draft.

2007-11-30 19:12:35
34.   Jon Weisman
Diamond Leung:

"The Dodgers declined to offer arbitration to any of their free agents. Luis Gonzalez was a Type B free agent and if offered arbitration and signed elsewhere, would have garnered the Dodgers a compensatory draft pick. Then again, you run the risk of Gonzalez accepting arbitration."

2007-11-30 19:14:00
35.   natepurcell

Then you tell him he is a PH if he comes back and will play once a week.


2007-11-30 19:14:32
36.   Bob Timmermann
The AP corrected their Oregon-K State game story:

2007-11-30 19:14:36
37.   natepurcell
Oh man, that Milledge thread over at BTF is 500 comment of basically Mets mass suicide.


2007-11-30 19:15:46
38.   natepurcell
I wonder how SAM DC feels about that trade.
2007-11-30 19:17:33
39.   Bob Timmermann
Sam DC is on a top secret mission behind enemy lines.
2007-11-30 19:28:14
40.   Eric Stephen
Does MLB still have the rule that if a FA isn't offered arbitration, he can't sign with hi previous team until May 1 of the following year?

So, essentially Mark Sweeney & Mike Lieberthal are gone unless they re-sign by midnight tonight (or sometime tomorrow, whenever the actual deadline is)?

2007-11-30 19:28:49
41.   Eric Stephen
And Randy Wolf too for that matter.
2007-11-30 19:33:45
42.   Bob Loblaw
I hope we keep LaRoche and he becomes our starting 3B next year, but I doubt he will be the starter out of spring training unless he really rakes while Nomar tanks. It seems that whenever prospects are anointed with a starting job out of ST they tend to struggle. Edwin Jackson was anointed as 5th starter a few years ago, Joe Thurston was anointed 2B a few years ago, Wilson Betemit was anointed 3B last year, and they all struggled (though Betemit started to rebound before he was traded). It appears that Andy will have to wait for Nomar to hurt himself or struggle before he's promoted, just as Kemp & Loney did last year, and Martin & Ethier in '05.
I don't think it matters as much how LaRoche does in ST as it does for Nomar, just as Loney raked in ST and was passed over because it was Nomar's position to lose.

I'm not necssarily advocating this approach, just stating it as my hunch. I don't think LaRoche will be promoted until he's on a hot streak at Vegas, but certainly before the all-star break.

2007-11-30 19:34:05
43.   Jon Weisman
40 - No, they changed that rule last winter after my complaining about it.
2007-11-30 19:36:47
44.   natepurcell

I think they did away with that rule with the new CBA.

2007-11-30 19:37:08
45.   gpellamjr
43 You're a powerful man.
2007-11-30 19:40:48
46.   Eric Stephen
Thanks. I hate to use this example, but that was a main reason the Dodgers didn't re-sign Lima after 2004, correct?
2007-11-30 19:44:07
47.   trainwreck
Real cool booing Derek Fisher every time he touches the ball, Jazz fans.
2007-11-30 19:44:34
48.   Terry A
45 - Since childhood, Bud Selig has had an irrational fear of Olympic nerds.
2007-11-30 19:48:47
49.   Jon Weisman
46 - Check the archives :)
2007-11-30 20:00:10
50.   KG16
47 - yup, how dare a guy leave Utah for a city like LA because his 2 year old kid has cancer? I mean, the nerve of the guy...

Meanwhile, the Lakers are looking like a team that played a full game yesterday, rather than just half a game.

42 - I wonder if there's any analysis as to how young guys perform when they're anointed and when they have to kick the door down... Philosophically, I get the case for both sides, and I'm not quite sure which one I'm wanting to buy into.

Also, completely unrelated to anything else, Mr T doing World of Warcraft commercials is rather funny.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-30 20:06:00
51.   LogikReader

I saw the same commercial. Mr T's still got it. I love anything with Mr T in it.

Going back to Derek Fisher for a moment, it's not as if I needed extra reasons to hate the Jazz and their fans. What an absolutely poor display of sportsmanship, given the circumstances. Jazz fans should be ashamed of themselves for what they did at tipoff.

2007-11-30 20:28:58
52.   Eric Stephen
Steve Nash just missed a free throw, snapping a string of 74 straight makes, dating back to last season.

Nash is a career 89.85% free throw shooter, the 2nd highest percentage (Mark Price, 90.39%).

2007-11-30 20:34:23
53.   Eric Stephen
I stand corrected. Rick Barry has the 2nd highest FT% in NBA history (89.98%), but with his ABA numbers factored in, his total percentage is 89.31% which puts him behind Nash.
2007-11-30 20:41:58
54.   Eric Stephen
Not a good first half for the Lake Show. Giving up 70 to a non=Phoenix team???
2007-11-30 20:46:27
55.   LogikReader

Now that was bad wasn't it? I hope the Lakers are ready for Phil Jackson's "halftime show".


I'm looking forward to winter meetings this year. It feels like just yesterday when the World Series ended. I'm looking forward to seeing somebody else sign Rowand. If the Dodgers don't get him... who else would be interested in his "ability to play the game?"

2007-11-30 20:47:57
56.   Eric Stephen
I'm not a fan of the ESPN Lou Holtz pep talks. They rank right up there with the fake MLB press conferences for me.
2007-11-30 20:48:53
57.   Bob Timmermann
I think the White Sox would welcome Rowand back.
2007-11-30 20:52:14
58.   Bob Timmermann
If Lou Holtz gave a phony pep talk for UCLA, it would be really weird. It would be so unlike what the players really hear.
2007-11-30 20:56:25
59.   El Lay Dave
Not to be too nitpicky, but... In the previous thread where Kevin Brown was discussed, it was mentioned that he was traded for Jeff Weaver and that when Weaver left as a type-A FA, the draft pick compensation became "First-round picks Chris Withrow and James Adkins, both of whom have shown promise thus far". I believe the compensation for Weaver was in the 2006 draft, yielding Preston Mattingly and Byron Morris, the latter of whom ties this comment neatly to this topic as well.

Also, the ultimate cost was less than $105M (Brown's infamous contract) since the Yankees paid Brown's last two years, around $31.5M, the Dodgers paid for Weaver instead, around $18.7M, but the Yanks also threw $3M into the deal! So that previously documented haul actually cost approximately 105-31.5+18.7-3 = $89.2M.

2007-11-30 21:00:55
60.   Eric Stephen
Here's a Padres' arbitration roundup:

Type A
-Michael Barrett: will offer arb; likely to accept a 1 yr/$4m deal)
-Milton Bradley: likely will not offer arb

Type B
-Doug Brocail: signed with Astros
-Mike Cameron: will offer arb; likely to decline

So if Bradley & Cameron sign elsewhere, the Padres will likely net an extra 1st round draft pick and three "sandwich" picks between the 1st & 2nd rounds, giving them 5 of the first 50-60 picks of the draft.

The Padres also had 6 of the first 64 picks of the 2007 draft, and 4 of the first 61 pick in 2006.

2007-11-30 21:03:55
61.   Bob Timmermann
I'm watching Milton Bradley's alma mater in the CIF Pac-5 semifinals. The Jackrabbits lead Orange Lutheran 2-0 in the 2nd quarter.
2007-11-30 21:05:56
62.   natepurcell

If you said Bradley wont likely be offered arb, why would the Padres get anything if he signs elsewhere?

2007-11-30 21:06:59
63.   Eric Stephen
61 Only a saftey, field goal, TD, and 2-pt conversion from the Timmermann ideal tally.
2007-11-30 21:08:37
64.   Eric Stephen
That would require me to pay attention as I type! :)

The Padres will most likely just get the 2 sandwich picks then. Yay!

2007-11-30 21:14:37
65.   Bob Timmermann
Winnipeg's line score in the Grey Cup:
3, 4, 7, 5.

The Blue Bombers lost 23-19.

2007-11-30 21:15:16
66.   Eric Stephen
Other NL West arbitration notes:

Will offer arbitration to Livan Hernandez, a Type B who will likely sign elsewhere
(sandwich pick for AZ)

Have already signed Type B Yorvit; will not offer arb to Type B Jorge Julio
(no picks for Col)

Sabean is tight-lipped, but will almost certainly not offer arb to Bonds, but will likely offer arb to Type B Pedro Feliz. Contract talks are ongoing with Feliz
(sandwich pick if Feliz signs elsewhere)

2007-11-30 21:16:45
67.   Eric Stephen
I should note, all sources for 60 & 66 were the individual team pages on
2007-11-30 21:37:15
68.   Andrew Shimmin
When do we find out if Hendrickson returns? I'm available to help him move, this weekend. Call me!
2007-11-30 21:43:04
69.   JRSarno
As is typical during this time of year, I find myself annoyed by the Dodgers' lack of effort in attempting to secure big name talent, or the mythical "big bat" that we have been striving for on offense. I watch names like ARod (for 0.1 seconds), Santana, Cabrera, Hunter, or A. Jones fly around as purportedly "wondrous" alternatives for rectifying perceived failures in our current lineup. Then I watch -- somewhat enviously -- as the Yankees and Red Sox continue to characteristically and outrageously outbid one another in an effort to overpay for "talent." With that said, it's definitely frustrating to see the Dodgers appear to display an impetus for high profile monetary investment, hire a "championship-caliber" manager, and then ultimately proclaim the need to stay the course with a youth movement. But as frustrating as it seems to me, I guess I'm fine with all of that. I love our young players, so fine, let them flourish. Let's see what a full season of at-bats gets you out of Loney and Kemp. But I guess I'd rather McCourt eradicate the candy-coated veneer that's used so often to bait his fanbase and, instead, call a spade a spade. He'd earn more respect from his Dodger constituency. The truth of the matter is that he's not going to pay like the AL east dynastic teams. He's not going to "do whatever it takes," as he always seems to say while smiling like a Bostonian gopher donning a silk handkerchief. The reality is that the Dodgers are in the National League West. Our path of greatest resistance like San Diego, Arizona, S.F., et al., pales miserably in comparison with what the Yanks and Red Sox have to deal with among themselves, and among the AL squads in general. So, I guess a big "whatever" is in order. I'd love to see the Dodgers become the filet of the National League, but at the end of the day, given the standard of competition in the NL, what's the point? So, fine -- let's go, start the season, "now batting for the Dodgers, center fielder, Juan Pierre." SIGH.
2007-11-30 21:45:56
70.   Bluebleeder87
Man, reading Eric Enders on the last thread, he was on his A-Game.
2007-11-30 21:47:43
71.   JoeyP
Sascha V might be the worst player in the NBA.

Amazing, or sad (better word), that Phil has kept him around this long.

2007-11-30 21:49:54
72.   Eric Stephen
December 12 seems like the drop dead date, the last day to tender contracts to players.

2007-11-30 22:12:24
73.   Joe Pierre
Great News from Stan Conte on the injury reports. A lot good men on that list. Let's go you guys we're waiting for you.
2007-11-30 23:04:41
74.   underdog
I'm not a big Sasha V fan either, but I think your summation of him is a little extreme. And he did score 22 points the night before. I think Phil likes his outside shooting and defense? Hard to know. I'm not a big fan as I said, but he's not quite that bad...
2007-11-30 23:28:51
75.   Gagne55
61 My alma matter got blown out by Hart earlier tonight. But I'm still happy with the Marmonte League title.
2007-11-30 23:34:35
76.   Ranma
I'm curious as to what the majority opinion will be here on the idea of the Dodgers selecting former highly-touted Yankee prospect Eric Duncan in the upcoming Rule 5 draft. Below are some choice excerpts that I find of particular interest:

"Perhaps the most unusual scenario was just how close top prospect, Eric Duncan came to wearing Dodger a nutshell, Duncan will continue to play third base in 2005, but will also continue to work on his skills as a first baseman. He will need more time than just spring training to learn the position so perhaps he will make the total switch in 2006, barring any trades of course."

Could someone here with more knowledge on the situation please enlighten me on what Frankie Piliere meant on how Duncan was close to being a Dodger almost two years ago? Also, would it be a good idea to bring him in to Spring Training to compete for the 3B job with Andy LaRoche? Maybe Joe Torre has an idea of how capable this kid can still be. Inquiring minds want to know. :-)

2007-11-30 23:40:34
77.   Eric Stephen
Duncan was part of the package coming from NYY to the Dodgers, in a 3-way deal involving Shawn Green to Arizona and Randy Johnson to NYY. DePodesta backed out of the deal, much to the consternation of many Yankee and D-Back fans.

Of course, Johnson still went to the Yanks, and Dioner Navarro ended up eventually in LA as part of the Shawn Green deal. It just wasn't in the same transaction.

2007-11-30 23:44:32
78.   Eric Stephen
See more information here (from 12/17/04):

Proposed deal was:

Javier Vazquez, Dioner Navarro & Eric Duncan to LA
Randy Johnson to Yankees
Shawn Green, Brad Penny & Yhency Brazoban to Arizona

The deal fell apart after Beltre signed with the Mariners.

By failing to re-sign Beltre, the Dodgers may rethink their role in the trade,'s Jayson Stark reported

2007-11-30 23:45:31
79.   Ranma
Thanks, Eric. Much appreciated.
2007-11-30 23:49:16
80.   Eric Stephen
Even more information here:

This article mentions "the Los Angeles Dodgers reneged on the deal," and that the deal was canceled because Javier Vazquez refused to travel to LA for a physical.

2007-11-30 23:56:20
81.   thinkblue0

My alma matter blew out yours!

2007-12-01 00:02:18
82.   68elcamino427
Keep checking for Kuroda signing.
What happened to the recruiting team?
2007-12-01 00:05:17
83.   Ranma
80. Once again, you have my gratitude, Eric.
2007-12-01 00:12:48
84.   Benaiah
78 - Dodged a bullet there. Brad Penny is far and away the best player in that deal and he almost was traded on a discount. Depo was got a reprieve there. At this point Depo's resume has no major problems, but several key additions.

For all the (perhaps justified) Lowe bashing, I am really glad we have him next year and I think he might be an excellent person to resign in 2008 if he can post his usual 200 IP and 3.6-4.00 ERA. Don't underestimate the very tangible values of Lowe (or Haren).

2007-12-01 00:13:57
85.   Eric Stephen
From the article in the Times earlier in the week, it sounds like the "team" went to Japan to recruit Kuroda over a week ago, and that the Dodgers' interest was reported after the fact.

Sounds like there is enough interest in him in the U.S. (Dodgers & Mariners being the most prominent) for Kuroda to officially leave the Carp.

If Kuroda and Andruw Jones (not Rowand) are the only big moves the Dodgers make this offseason, I can live with that.

2007-12-01 00:17:51
86.   Eric Stephen
But what kind of contract will Lowe be looking for after 2008? Assuming he's healthy and reasonably productive next season, Lowe will be entering his age 36 season in 2009 and I'm guessing will be looking for at least a 3-year deal (if not 4).

If the Dodgers can sign Lowe to a 1 or 2 year deal, I can be persuaded to accept that. But I'm skeptical.

2007-12-01 00:21:26
87.   Bob Loblaw
From everything I've read, I'd be surprised if the Dodgers don't sign Kuroda.
2007-12-01 00:25:12
88.   68elcamino427
86 It was pointed out to me that Lowe is a Bora$ client.
2007-12-01 00:27:38
89.   68elcamino427
I really am curious to see what Kuroda will do, with the beginning of the Winter Meetings at hand.
2007-12-01 00:31:59
90.   Eric Stephen
I don't think that's much of a factor either way.
2007-12-01 00:39:56
91.   68elcamino427
90 A persuasive argument was presented that Bora$ may ask for more years and money than the Dodgers would feel comfortable with.
2007-12-01 00:53:22
92.   Eric Stephen
Is the difference between Boras and another agent, specifically in Lowe's case, really significant?

If the Dodgers want Lowe back for multiple years, and if Lowe wants to come back, a deal will get done, regardless of Lowe's agent.

And is it really necessary to always type Bora$ instead of Boras? I'm not sure it adds to the discussion.

2007-12-01 00:58:42
93.   68elcamino427
My first thought was that it might be reasonable to sign Lowe for two more years.
That would put him at age 36 at the end of his contract. How many more years would you extend him for? Do you think that it is reasonable to assume that Lowe's agent will shop him to the highest bidder for more years?
2007-12-01 01:06:36
94.   still bevens
I've always been convinced that Lowe will end up signing with his hometown Tigers once his deal is up with us. Kenny Rogers will most likely be done there and they could use another decent older innings eater type pitcher. But with Boras in his corner I wouldn't be surprised if Lowe ended up with the highest bidder for his services.
2007-12-01 01:23:51
95.   Eric Stephen
Lowe is already signed through 2008, his age 35 season. He will be a free agent at the end of next season.

I think it would be unlikely to sign him to a 1- or 2-year extension, which is just about the maximum I would personally give him.

I just think Lowe will be looking for one final big payday with his next contract, meaning 3 or 4 years, something I'm not willing to give him. Whether his agent is Boras, Arn Tellum, Tommy Tanzer, or Fernando Cuza, or anyone else, I think that would be the case.

2007-12-01 06:59:43
96.   Ken Noe
Supposedly wasn't Ethier and Kershaw the Twinkies wanted, but rather Kershaw plus Loney or Broxton. Dodgers allegedly backed out due to the cost and length of Santana's contract.
Story in this morning's NY Daily News.
2007-12-01 07:24:06
97.   Suffering Bruin
I've never had a letter appear in the Los Angeles Times. I've tried, lord knows I've tried but I can't seem to break the firewall of readers that determine who's opinion gets read on the Saturday morning pages.

If only I wrote this:

"If Ned Colletti stands pat during the off-season, the Dodgers' season is over before it begins. Joe Torre is not going to bat cleanup. If Colletti signs Aaron Rowand, moves Juan Pierre to left and packages Matt Kemp and prospects for Miguel Cabrera, that would add 61 home runs and 208 RBIs to our anemic offense and allow us to compete with Colorado and Arizona." (Today's LAT)

Today, I will send a letter calling for the entire Dodger farm system to be sent to the Twins for Johan Santana.

2007-12-01 07:26:45
98.   regfairfield
97 He could be an ESPN featured commenter of the day.

The sad thing is that he actually took the effort to look that up without realizing that Kemp and Ethier would contribute more than nothing in their place.

2007-12-01 08:43:22
99.   Jon Weisman
The myth of important stolen bases:

Perhaps someone wants to attempt this with Pierre.

2007-12-01 08:48:45
100.   Bob Timmermann
Not before I had coffee.

Or balanced my checkbook.

Or figured out just why I'm watching the MAC Championship game between Miami ad Central Michigan.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-01 09:16:16
101.   Greg Brock
It's the end of an era today, boys and girls. May our Gutty Little Bruins smite the spoiled children from across town, and let us send the current coach out with a victory.

More importantly, let us send the current coach out. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 U---C---LLLLLLL-A--UCLA Fight Fight Fight!

2007-12-01 09:25:36
102.   Marty
Mr. Brock, would you be interested in a friendly wager? Say a beer at the next DT game? The current line appears to be 20. I'll give the points if you're of a mind.
2007-12-01 09:30:23
103.   Bob Timmermann
So nobody else is following Army-Navy, Central Michigan-Miami, or UCF-Tulsa?
2007-12-01 09:33:50
104.   Greg Brock
102 So you're asking for a free beer? I'd love to buy you a beer next game.

We ain't sniffing a victory. I'd be absolutely shocked if we beat the spread.

2007-12-01 09:35:09
105.   Greg Brock
103 I'm watching Army/Navy. Never miss it.

Go Middies!

2007-12-01 09:35:13
106.   Marty
104 Yes, but I think that's what you said last year too. And look how that turned out.
2007-12-01 09:35:43
107.   Marty
I always root for Navy since the old man was Marine.
2007-12-01 09:36:06
108.   KG16
99 - I've got some problems with his methodology. First, the little importance category, should look at the score when the base was stolen and when the runner scored. If the runner is the first run scored, and then the team goes on to score another 7 runs later in the game, that does not diminish the value of the stolen base because you do not know that the 7 runs would be scored later. For example, the Apr 25 run, made the score 4-2, a two run lead vs a one run lead in the 5th inning is huge, it is irrelevant that the Phillies scored five more runs latter in the game.

It also ignores the different defensive alignments when a runner is a first as opposed to a runner at second.

The Jun 24 steal is also questionable, would Howard have been intentionally walked if first base was not open? Or would they have pitched to him in a 1-1 game? That obviously could have altered the strategy. Given that an out is more likely than not, the stolen base actually may have saved the Phillies an out because of the intentional walk.

Just my opinion, but I'd put a little more importance on some of the steals.

2007-12-01 09:40:15
109.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm watching That's So Raven.

Well, no. Not really. I wonder if Army could have beaten ND this year, too, if given the chance.

2007-12-01 09:42:18
110.   Bob Timmermann
I think I may just go off all day and try to figure out a rebus puzzle to explain the Rule 5 draft.
2007-12-01 09:44:07
111.   Greg Brock
110 Help me, Rebus?
2007-12-01 09:44:29
112.   Bluebleeder87

Nice point KG16 (Kevin Gross?) it is an intriguing read though.

2007-12-01 09:48:21
113.   Andrew Shimmin
I wish my name were Zerbin.
2007-12-01 09:49:45
114.   immouch
Dumb thought:
I'd toss out all the nicknames in MLB in exchange for names as cool as Nippon Ham Fighters and whatever the guys are Carp.
I mention this because my mother-in-law is cooking bacon for my kids.
On another note, if the Dodgers can sign the Kuroda guy - and if he does anything decent in the slot we gave last year to Tomko/Loiza/Hendrickson, then I believe the Dodgers have a solid shot at the division. For all the kvetching about a bigger hitter, etc., I think (without research to back it up, naturally) that we were doomed last year by our crappy No. 5 pitching.
2007-12-01 09:54:11
115.   Xeifrank
103. Go Navy!
Anchors away and all that... I will save the hysterics. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 09:54:53
116.   Andrew Shimmin
Checking the Yankees' 40 man to see who they wanted more than Duncan, I see Scott Patterson. Never heard of him. He's older, played for a long time in independent leagues, but his numbers (even for an old guy at AA) are pretty exciting. If I were the Yankees, and decided I needed to use six hundred and twelve pitchers last year, he would have been one of them.

2007-12-01 09:55:33
117.   Bob Timmermann
Hirsohima Toyo Carp.

Remember that Carp in Japanese wouldn't sound funny.

The Carp used to be municipally owned like the Packers, but eventually the city had to sell the team. They're trying to get a new stadium. They play in a small park near the original Ground Zero.

2007-12-01 10:25:16
118.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN has run two different crawls about Les Miles taking the Michigan job. One mentions an assistant who would be going to Michigan.

Now on, Miles is saying that he's not going anywhere.

2007-12-01 10:28:16
119.   regfairfield
116 I think Duncan is safe to leave off the 40 man because there's no way he'd survive in the bigs. He hasn't cracked a .250 average at any level above high A.
2007-12-01 10:38:00
120.   immouch
Thanks. I think I guessed a little of that, but certainly not all... I actually don't hate a corporate/employer connection to baseball nicknames. I prefer them slightly over purile marketing weirdness (Devil Rays, Rockies, Marlins) or ill concealed footwear fetishes (Red Sox, White Sox, Reds) and more than slightly over unsavory racial references (Redskins, Indians). Carp, Packers, Browns - they all kinda reflect who signs the check. I might be stoked about that, but it seems fair enough.
Any thought about Ham Fighters? What is/are it/them?
2007-12-01 10:44:04
121.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN's crawl is not just saying "LSU coach Les Miles will remain at school."

Over and over and over and over.

It's giving me a headache.

2007-12-01 10:46:48
122.   GoBears
Actually, Carp does not indicate who signs the checks. All or nearly all Japanese baseball teams are owned by companies whose main business is something else. So the Carp are owned by Toyo. The Giants by Yomiuri (a newspaper company), the Tigers by Hanshin (a railway), and so on. Some teams also add their city name (hence Hiroshima Toyo Carp), or use the city and corporate name interchangeably (Yomiuri Giants or Tokyo Giants).

Nippon Ham is a company. The team is called the Fighters. The only reason this is confusing is that we need to see Nippon and Ham separated into two words when written in English (in Japanese, there are no spaces between words).

2007-12-01 10:51:32
123.   Bob Timmermann
The Fighters use a hyphen in their team name in Japan, although it does not appear in English newspapers in Japan.

2007-12-01 10:57:46
124.   GoBears
122 I guess the bigger reason that "Nippon Ham Fighters" is confusing is that the first word is Japanese and the latter two are English. So it's natural for English speakers to assume that the latter two go together.

Ah well.

2007-12-01 10:59:34
125.   bigcpa
Anyone know if we offered arb to Hendrickson?
2007-12-01 10:59:59
126.   Bob Timmermann
The Japanese like to mix and match English and Japanese words, especially in commercial enterprises.

It just sounds better to the Japanese.

2007-12-01 11:03:19
127.   immouch
That's cool. I thought "Nippon" was the Japanese word for "Japanese." So the name "Nippon Ham," I thought, would be "Japanese" somethingorother (assuming "Ham" means something other than tasty sandwich meat).
In any case, it's fun to learn this stuff. Thanks.
2007-12-01 11:09:24
128.   Bob Timmermann
The Japanese word for "Japanese" is actually "nihongo."

Most people in Japan call the country "Nihon" than "Nippon" and I've never figured out the difference.

My go to phrase when travelling in Japan is "Nihongo wakarimasen."
Strangely, most 6'5" white guys travelling in Japan don't get addressed in Japanese.

2007-12-01 11:10:13
129.   Andrew Shimmin
124- Plus Ham Fighters is such a potentially awesome name. I know better, but still want to call them the Ham Fighters.
2007-12-01 11:13:18
130.   D4P
You know better, but still want to wear pleated pants.
2007-12-01 11:17:35
131.   immouch
See, that's what I'm saying. "Ham Fighters" may be technically whack, but it would feel great to scream from the cheaps. Sigh... I suppose "Dodgers" is a fine name too in its own, no-longer-relevant, weirdly uninspiring way. Maybe we could update it to involve a freeway 'sted of the trolly.
2007-12-01 11:18:02
132.   Bob Timmermann
Calling the team "Ham Fighters" is akin to the time when I was in college and I went to the Tower Records in Westwood and looked for a recording by Ralph Vaughan Williams and looked for it in the W section.

The clerk there, who was obviously the prototype for Comic Book Guy, treated me with contempt.

2007-12-01 11:18:15
133.   immouch
Is D4P here to complain about middle initials?
2007-12-01 11:19:20
134.   Andrew Shimmin
130- The cords ended up being to short for cuffs, so, at least I won't end up hiding the shape of my ankles from the throngs of people dying to know what they look like.
2007-12-01 11:28:01
135.   Bob Timmermann
The Hokies pick up 2 points on a blocked PAT return. I expect UCLA to get one of these today. They will have many opportunities to block PATs.
2007-12-01 11:32:09
136.   D4P
I read today that my high school, which will be playing in the state football championship game next week, won its quarterfinal game (against the #1 ranked, previously undefeated team) 28-27. With the score 28-21 late in the game, the other team scored a touchdown and then failed on the extra point to lose by a single point.
2007-12-01 11:35:07
137.   CajunDodger
It's a good day for me, but just like Norm Chow, Bo Pelini was the power behind the throne, so to speak.

It will be interesting to see who Miles taps for his Defensive Coordinator next year. For now, this means all of the recruits that I have been tracking (and that no one here cares about since there's about 1 LSU fan on this blog) will now probably sign their name on the line that is dotted.

Good day to be a Tiger. Let's see if we can knock off some Volunteers this afternoon.

2007-12-01 11:35:17
138.   Bob Timmermann
Welcome to high school football. PATs are always an adventure at that level.

Long Beach Poly beat Orange Lutheran 2-0 yesterday and they are two of the best teams in California. The safety came on a bad snap on a punt in the first quarter.

2007-12-01 11:39:19
139.   D4P
2-0 is one of the best possible scores.

I suppose 3-2 is probably the best.

2007-12-01 11:45:34
140.   Bob Timmermann
4-2 would be an even better score.

The 2-0 game was pretty exciting to watch. The winner made two goal line stands at the end of each half. The loser fumbled at the 1 with 20 seconds left.

2007-12-01 11:47:45
141.   Bleed Dodger Blue
117 That's one reason why I think Kuroda might pan out in the bigs ... Hiroshima municipal has outfield walls at 300 (left, right) and 380 (dead center). As Andrew pointed out at True Blue, that definitely won't help his strikeout numbers, which are pretty mediocre ... but it makes me hopeful.

I wouldn't be upset to see us roll the dice on Kuroda. He's as much of a risk as anyone else we'd bring in ... and he might be a lot better.

2007-12-01 11:47:51
142.   Bob Timmermann
Are you geared up for the Civil War? Do the teams play for any trophy? Are there any traditions associated with the game that I need to be aware of?

How much do the two schools hate each other?

2007-12-01 11:51:05
143.   D Money
quick question..

if base stealing has such little importance, then why is throwing out base stealers such an important attribute in catchers?

2007-12-01 11:52:41
144.   Bob Timmermann
Because it's the easiest thing to quantify and notice with a catcher.
2007-12-01 11:52:54
145.   D4P
1. No.
2. Not that I recall.
3. See #2.
4. Somewhat, though it's mostly a friendly kind of hate. For example, I would guess that most Duck fans would have no problem rooting for the Beavers in the College World Series and such.
2007-12-01 11:54:47
146.   Hallux Valgus
137 early reports tabbed Jon Tenuta going to UM with Miles, and that seemed like a pretty good fit to me, given how much Miles likes to attack and how much Tenuta blitzes.

Assuming Tenuta doesn't get tabbed by GT, of course.

2007-12-01 12:00:53
147.   D Money
there is also the "rattle" factor..
I've seen Dave Roberts, Rafael Furcal, and Juan Pierre all do it to pitchers.

the pitcher gets so concerned about the base runner on first trying to steal that they make bad pitches, rush their deliveries, their mechanics get all messed up.

Not to mention the Sox amazing comeback against the yanks, was only made possible by Dave Roberts wheels.

2007-12-01 12:01:42
148.   D4P
I just looked at the following correlations for 2007 at the team level:

1. stolen bases allowed and runs allowed per game

2. caught stealing percentage (defense) and runs allowed per game

Interesting findings for each.

The correlation in #1 is negative, with a p-value of 0.06.

The correlation in #2 is positive, p-value 0.099.

In other words, without controlling for anything else, as stolen bases allowed goes up, runs allowed goes down. As defensive caught stealing percentage goes up, runs allowed goes up.

2007-12-01 12:04:02
149.   Bob Timmermann
Kuroda gave up 20 home runs in 179.6 innings. I don't have the home/road breakdowns.

Carp pitchers gave up 40 more home runs than their batters hit (172 to 132).

I think the principal explanation for this is that the Carp players overall aren't very good.

2007-12-01 12:04:29
150.   D Money
but why use an unimportant skill to evaluate a player?

maybe im reading too much into the "Base Stealing isn't important" chatter.

maybe they are just saying it isnt AS important

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-01 12:07:09
151.   D Money
interesting stats.

In JP's case though all i think that means is, his speed makes him better than he would be if he had NO wheels but he is still worse than other options haha.

2007-12-01 12:07:45
152.   D4P
I think the problem with evaluating the importance of base stealing is that the people who steal bases generally aren't good at other (often more important) stuff, like hitting the ball a long way and getting on base an awful lot. If you can do both of those things well, stealing bases is good. If you can't, stealing bases doesn't make up for it.
2007-12-01 12:11:36
153.   KG16
148 - that seems counter-intuitive, and I wonder if 2007 might be an outlier in that regard. But I don't have much interest in doing the research.

112 - are we back to thinking that I'm actually Kevin Gross?

2007-12-01 12:12:07
154.   D Money
another fine point
2007-12-01 12:14:43
155.   Andrew Shimmin
153- It's a step up. I used to accuse you of being Kip Gross.
2007-12-01 12:16:04
156.   D Money
i think its kevin federline...he just typo'd.
2007-12-01 12:16:30
157.   KG16
156 - low blow!
2007-12-01 12:17:51
158.   D Money
2007-12-01 12:17:52
159.   Bob Timmermann
The ACC Championship game looks to be drawing a crowd of invited guests.
2007-12-01 12:19:27
160.   KG16
152 - is there a correlation between OBP and SB?
2007-12-01 12:20:15
161.   bigcpa
Wolf to the Padres...

2007-12-01 12:34:20
162.   dzzrtRatt
148 In other words, without controlling for anything else, as stolen bases allowed goes up, runs allowed goes down. As defensive caught stealing percentage goes up, runs allowed goes up.

Hypothesis: This could mean pitchers and catchers who concentrate on the batter more than the base-runner do a better job of preventing runs.

It also suggests the most insignificant exciting play in baseball is the two-out steal of second with no one else on base. For all the times that announcers can say "the key to the inning was Swifty's steal of second," there must be 50 times where Swifty goes no further.

2007-12-01 12:34:52
163.   trainwreck
Dang those smart Padres.
2007-12-01 12:47:58
164.   D Money

i'd bet the 1:50 ratio is an exageration but who knows.

also, on a team that has no swifty, or doesnt utilize him, they NEVER hear "the key to the inning was Swifty's steal of second,".

it all about scoring runs any way possible right?

2007-12-01 12:53:08
165.   KG16
152 160 - ok, just because I've got nothing else to do at the moment, I figured I'd look it up. 8 players this year stole at least 40 bases, the lowest OBP among them was .331 (by everyone's favorite centerfielder). 19 players (an additional 11 plus the group above) stole at least 30 bases, the lowest OBP among them was .294 by old friend Julio Lugo. 42 players (23 plus the 19 above) stole 20 bases, no one had a lower OBP lower than old friend Julio Lugo.

The range of OBP was .422 (A-Rod) to .294 (Lugo). The mean was .361. The median was .353 (Byrnes, Beltran, and Hart)

for what it's worth...

2007-12-01 12:53:35
166.   Andrew Shimmin
"the key to the inning was Swifty's steal of second."

If this were true a quarter as often as it is said, stolen bases would matter more.

2007-12-01 12:54:20
167.   El Lay Dave
163 I might reserve that judgment until I know what kind of contract he's getting (and until someone else besides Rosenthal also reports it), but it does seem unlikely that the Padres would overpay. But if it is not much different than the option ($9M) the Dodgers did not exercise minus the buyout ($0.5M), ....
2007-12-01 13:02:33
168.   Chuck Churn
I guess I affiliate with the "make no trades involving our top-tier youngsters" crowd. But I might part with one elite young player if we could get Bedard. In the real world, of course, the Birds won't ask for Hu, Young, or even Meloan. Like everyone else, they want the Colonel, Kemp, Loney, LaRoche. But what if they were agreeable to Hu, Pierre, and Broxton? I think I might go for that one. It would leave a big hole in the relief corps but Bedard is an ace with a favorable contract.
2007-12-01 13:21:38
169.   imperabo
148 I bet the Padres account for the entire diference.
2007-12-01 13:22:06
170.   underdog
Wait, when did The Minotaur become The Colonel?

Not that it matters, since he doesn't exist of course.

I'm sort of mixed about the Padres signing Wolf. On the one hand, I wanted the Dodgers to bring him back because he's better than some of the other options. On the other hand, I have a feeling he'll be injured again in some way next season and he's probably not worth his asking price (even if it's less than what some of the year's FA's are asking). Now all the Padres need to do is bring back David Wells and they're set!

I wish Bedard was a free agent this year, rather than needing to trade to acquire him...

2007-12-01 13:23:07
171.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA and USC kick off at 1:42 pm.

Use this chart to track Greg Brock's emotions.

1:42 - False hope
1:44 - Fleeting hope
1:47 - Depression
1:50 - Acceptance and happiness

2007-12-01 13:23:45
172.   D Money

He would be the creme de la creme, and probably a Yankee if he were a FA this year.

2007-12-01 13:26:23
173.   KG16
170 - yesterday, I believe, when the kids were dubbed "Logan's Heroes" and He Who Does Not Exist was deemed a potential leader, thus "Colonel".
2007-12-01 13:28:01
174.   D Money
I thought He Who Does Not Exist was all confuse me lol
2007-12-01 13:28:09
175.   D Money
I thought He Who Does Not Exist was all confuse me lol
2007-12-01 13:28:38
176.   trainwreck
Brock wants UCLA to lose, so I just expect pure joy from him.
2007-12-01 13:29:18
177.   Bob Timmermann
I gave him 8 minutes to get into that mode!
2007-12-01 13:29:42
178.   silverwidow
Dec 1 is the deadline to offer arb to free agents. Hendrickson is not eligible for free agency. He needs to be offered a contract by Dec 12.
2007-12-01 13:30:12
179.   underdog

No, He Who Does Not Exist is JP, but The Minotaur literally doesn't exist - just so teams will stop asking about him and so we'll pretend we don't have huge expectations for him. Er, for no one. {whistles}

2007-12-01 13:31:02
180.   D Money
i get it!
2007-12-01 13:31:36
181.   KG16
any of the other lawyers in the crowd have any experience on the criminal side?

I just noticed that three suspects in the Sean Taylor case were charged with "unpremeditated murder", which I always understood to be manslaughter. The facts seem to suggest the proper charge would be felony murder. But then, I'm not familiar with Florida law on the matter.

2007-12-01 13:33:52
182.   KG16
my bad on the He Who Does Not Exist. Were going to need a list of unofficial DT nicknames for players at some point.
2007-12-01 13:35:20
183.   trainwreck
8 minutes is quite generous to the Bruins.
2007-12-01 13:41:04
184.   Bob Timmermann
IANAL, but I believe in Florida "unpremeditated murder" is a little worse than "manslaughter."
2007-12-01 13:42:24
185.   Bob Timmermann
Congrats to Ken Noe's Hokies for earning a trip to the Orange Bowl.
2007-12-01 13:44:30
186.   bigcpa
Rumorthal says the Yankees won't sign a big ticket CF if they trade Melky. Time for Ned to break out one of his 3 year mongo offers to Jones.
2007-12-01 13:53:05
187.   Bob Timmermann
Austin's fumble for UCLA occurred around 1:48 so I misjudged Brock's elation by 2 minutes.
2007-12-01 14:02:00
188.   trainwreck
Me thinks it will take more than 13 points for UCLA to win this game.
2007-12-01 14:02:03
189.   Ken Noe
185 Bob, many thanks. We are Virginia Tech.
2007-12-01 14:04:01
190.   KG16
184 - hmmm, maybe it's the old second degree murder. From what little I recall from my crim law classes, most states have murder, felony murder, and manslaughter now. Interesting... but not quite.
2007-12-01 14:04:50
191.   Bob Timmermann
Does that presuppose the fact that UCLA could score 13 points today?
2007-12-01 14:06:38
192.   Hallux Valgus
Oregon and Oregon State have got to combine for the ugliest game in history. I'm speaking of the uniforms, of course.
2007-12-01 14:08:21
193.   KG16
so, in rooting for BCS chaos, who am I to support today? The University That Shall Not Be Named and UCLA? Probably the Vols too. But I need to be careful that chaos does not allow The Ohio State University to sneak into the championship game.
2007-12-01 14:09:34
194.   Bob Timmermann
Florida's murder law:

Not as interesting as the baseball rule book.

2007-12-01 14:10:08
195.   trainwreck
Ugggh. UCLA is looking to hire Steve Mariucci.
2007-12-01 14:11:31
196.   Bob Timmermann
I would think a Missouri-West Virginia championship game would be chaotic enough.

If UCLA won the Pac-10 and Hawai'i were to lose tonight to Washington and BYU beats San Diego State, then it's possible that the Cougars go to the Sugar Bowl.

2007-12-01 14:12:49
197.   D4P
Bob lobs law bomb.
2007-12-01 14:15:09
198.   KG16
194 - ok, looks like it is felony murder - a killing in the commission of another crime, here burglary (which is the entering of the dwelling place of another with the intention of committing a felony therein).

That makes more sense.

2007-12-01 14:16:12
199.   Bob Timmermann
You're welcome. Will more Tech fans be headed to Miami than Jacksonville today?
2007-12-01 14:17:42
200.   KG16
296 I'll take Hawaii in the BCS, since everyone has been dodging them lately. Now, if we could get the Cougars into the BCS anyway, that would be a lot of fun.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-01 14:19:14
201.   Bob Timmermann
Only one non-BCS affiliated team can get an invite to sit at the adults table.
2007-12-01 14:20:14
202.   KG16
201 - and so my dream of two non-BCS teams getting to the title game must wait another year...
2007-12-01 14:22:12
203.   Bob Timmermann
The BCS would have to rewrite the rules to allow that.

Not that the BCS doesn't rewrite the rule book about every two weeks.

2007-12-01 14:28:35
204.   KG16
I'm guessing that if two teams from non-BCS schools ended up 1-2 and the BCS said no way, there would be a lot of consternation in the world according to ESPN
2007-12-01 14:31:53
205.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, the BCS rules don't even foresee such an occurrence happening.

I would find it difficult to believe that in one year, for example, the MAC and MWC champions would ever be ranked 1-2. They would have such a hard time ever getting ranked high enough by the coaches.

Do you want Thom Brennaman saying "Welcome to Miami for the BCS Championship Game. It will be the Chippewas of Central Michigan taking on the Cougars of Brigham Young."

2007-12-01 14:33:12
206.   Bob Timmermann
The ABC sideline reporter thinks offensive linemen are called linebackers.
2007-12-01 14:35:51
207.   KG16
205 - if they were the best teams in the country, yes.
2007-12-01 14:37:15
208.   trainwreck
I think she realized her mistake after the first time, but just kept going with it.

She's used to reporting on horses, so she has not gotten this football thing down.

2007-12-01 14:38:10
209.   Bob Timmermann
Christian Taylor needs to block better.
2007-12-01 14:41:48
210.   trainwreck
And we thought he was small for a linebacker.
2007-12-01 14:44:08
211.   Bob Timmermann
I'm trying to come up with a scenario where UCLA scores in this game.

Any ideas?

2007-12-01 14:46:04
212.   trainwreck
USC fumbles on special teams and Forbaith nails a 50 yard field goal.
2007-12-01 14:46:13
213.   D4P
1. Blocked extra point returned for 2-points
2007-12-01 14:48:08
214.   trainwreck
Switching quarterbacks game to game may not be the greatest strategy in the world.
2007-12-01 14:50:35
215.   Bob Timmermann
I have popped in on the Civil War. If I were an Oregon alum, I would burn my diploma in protest over those uniforms.
2007-12-01 14:50:44
216.   Andrew Shimmin
I've heard that SC's quarterback isn't very good (reminiscent of a young Andrew Bogut), so maybe he'll throw a returnable interception. Another scenario: really cute streaker, really gay Bruin ball carrier.
2007-12-01 14:52:48
217.   Bob Timmermann
USC's quarterback will be wearing a baseball cap and carrying a clipboard for an NFL team next year.
2007-12-01 14:55:09
218.   D4P
I just turned on the game to check out the unis. I'll not burn my diplomae, but the unis aren't so good. At least they're not pleated.
2007-12-01 14:57:32
219.   trainwreck
I am not a big fan of the Washington basketball jerseys either.

They are playing Oklahoma State on ESPN.

2007-12-01 14:59:57
220.   Bob Timmermann
Those Washington uniforms are not that bad. The problem with the Oregon football unis are the glowing helmets.
2007-12-01 15:01:59
221.   trainwreck
The weird shape of the numbers with silver lining around them does not help either.
2007-12-01 15:04:17
222.   D Money
i like the oregon state unis...the oregon...not so much
2007-12-01 15:04:23
223.   3upn3down
Not a lot to complain about with USC's offense, but I find this funny. Stay with me here:

Steve Sarkisian was a senior at West Torrance High when I was a freshman at Peninsula HS. West Torrance came to Peninsula and lost badly (in the 30s to 10s range), but Sark put up over 300 yards of passing against us, which was a record that stood past my graduation date 3 years later.

75% of his passes that day were WR screens and passes on that route where he takes a 1 step drop and hits his wideout at the line of scrimmage.

Now that he calls plays with Lane up north, he runs that play ALL OF THE TIME, and it drives me crazy. Booty's first three throws were 1 step drop throws parallel to the line of scrimage.

Pay attention and you'll see it to.

2007-12-01 15:06:44
224.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA's record for fewest total yards in a game is 41 against Syracuse in 1964. That included -37 yards of rushing.

Syracuse won 39-0.

2007-12-01 15:08:30
225.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know "football" but I'm rooting for Bob Timmermann's alma matter.
2007-12-01 15:11:04
226.   Hallux Valgus
Verne Lundquist just described Tennessee as looking like "Moving Dreamsicles," which might have to be my next fantasy football team name.
2007-12-01 15:15:53
227.   Bob Timmermann
Get out while you can! Save yourself!
2007-12-01 15:19:41
228.   Bob Timmermann
I think that completion to Austin may keep the Bruins from breaking the record for fewest yards.
2007-12-01 15:21:12
229.   trainwreck
We scored!
We scored!
We scored!
A touchdown no less.
2007-12-01 15:21:34
230.   Bluebleeder87
They just scored Bob, WOOT!
2007-12-01 15:22:45
231.   Hallux Valgus
that was a great catch. Doesn't help my 20 point line, though.
2007-12-01 15:26:26
232.   Andrew Shimmin
How many personal fouls in a game is it that entitles a team to automatic entry into the SEC?
2007-12-01 15:32:29
233.   Bob Timmermann
In Sun Belt Conference news, Florida Atlantic upset Troy on the road, 38-32 to win the conference and clinch a spot in the New Orleans Bowl.
2007-12-01 15:33:38
234.   D4P
I had dinner last year at a conference with three female Florida Atlantic faculty members.
2007-12-01 15:35:44
235.   Bob Timmermann
Aside from "Florida", just where is Florida Atlantic?
2007-12-01 15:36:45
236.   Hallux Valgus
Boca Raton, I think
2007-12-01 15:36:52
237.   Bob Timmermann
Never mind, it's in Fort Lauderdale.
2007-12-01 15:39:24
238.   D4P
Aside from "Florida", just where is Florida Atlantic?

On the Atlantic. Ocean.

2007-12-01 15:40:02
239.   D Money
were they hot?
2007-12-01 15:43:48
240.   D4P
A gentleman would not answer such a question, by which I mean "No". But they were a lot of fun.
2007-12-01 15:45:49
241.   KG16
Vols take the lead in the SEC game
2007-12-01 15:49:45
242.   trainwreck
Jeanine Edward's neck could pull a car.
2007-12-01 15:50:10
243.   Bob Timmermann
Why do ABC's announcers always call Booty "John David"?
2007-12-01 15:53:37
244.   D Money


his name is john-david booty

2007-12-01 15:54:39
245.   Bob Timmermann
I know the man's name, but he is almost always rerferred to by his first name only.
2007-12-01 16:00:17
246.   D Money
ah, ive never heard him called by anything but booty or john-david.

p.s. i love every headline referring to Booty and Trojans...good times

2007-12-01 16:02:43
247.   Bob Timmermann
I've watched a bunch of Pac-10 games this year and I've never heard announcer call QBs from other teams by their first name.

"Dennis with the carry."
"Rudy with the pass.
"Tavita gets sacked!"
"Nate throws another interception!"

2007-12-01 16:06:40
248.   KG16
247 - maybe they're worried about the FCC and saying "Booty" too much?
2007-12-01 16:09:29
249.   D Money
john-david is his first name though.
2007-12-01 16:13:28
250.   Bob Timmermann

I think you're missing my point, which is:

Why does John David Booty get referred to by his first name ONLY many times when few, if any other player is referred to by his first name only?

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-12-01 16:16:18
251.   Hallux Valgus
250 Cody Hawkins gets the first name treatment for Colorado, and Jake Plummer got the same for the Broncos. I don't understand it, and I don't like it.
2007-12-01 16:19:17
252.   trainwreck
I am guessing Cody gets it because of the possible confusion with his father and I guess Jake gets it because everyone with the name Jake gets nicknamed the Snake.
2007-12-01 16:19:55
253.   Bob Timmermann
For Cody Hawkins I can understand it a bit since his father is the coach.

Jake Plummer I just don't understand, but you don't have to worry about it anymore.

Patrick Cowan is not being called by his first name and his brother is on the team.

2007-12-01 16:22:52
254.   Andrew Shimmin
It should be a twenty yard penalty when the personal foul is that dumb.
2007-12-01 16:23:36
255.   trainwreck
Well this is just getting sloppy.
2007-12-01 16:25:03
256.   trainwreck
It is a legal play to knock a wide receiver on the ground when they are running a route?
2007-12-01 16:25:12
257.   Andrew Shimmin
Oregon State tied it up.
2007-12-01 16:25:51
258.   Andrew Shimmin
256- As long as the ball isn't in the air. I wouldn't have guessed that, but the ABC guy is infallible.
2007-12-01 16:26:49
259.   Bob Timmermann
You can hit a receiver downfield before the ball is thrown in college football, but you can't do it in the NFL unless it's close to the line of scrimmage.
2007-12-01 16:28:04
260.   Jon Weisman
Stanford strikes first in the Supersize It Game.
2007-12-01 16:28:48
261.   Bob Timmermann
So if USC is supposed to be the true best team in college football now, why is this game still nominally close?
2007-12-01 16:29:15
262.   Bob Timmermann
Computers are behind reality. Cal tied it up.
2007-12-01 16:29:31
263.   Hallux Valgus
252 253 I thought that as well, but announcers make a big issue out of the fact that Cody is Dan's son no matter what. It's always an issue, and I don't see why "Hawkins scrambles for 5 yards" is confusing.

Jake the Snake as an obvious nickname is very true. It's like anyone with a name ending in "ick" gets labeled ".ick the Quick." It makes me wonder how Stabler ever got labeled.

2007-12-01 16:33:11
264.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I thought it was a good idea to accept the penalty. But Karl Dorrell just had his final Grady Little moment.
2007-12-01 16:34:37
265.   Vishal
"supersize it"? is "big" not good enough now?
2007-12-01 16:35:27
266.   Jon Weisman
the computers weren't behind. I was just waiting to see if you guys would mention it first. Cal's TD pass was in the air as I hit send.
2007-12-01 16:37:01
267.   Andrew Shimmin
261- Because UCLA is underrated?
2007-12-01 16:37:24
268.   trainwreck
ESPN was going through all the names of the rivalry games and made a mistake with Cal and Stanford.

They just called it "The Game."

2007-12-01 16:38:21
269.   D Money
who wants to say booty all game?
sounds unprofesional
2007-12-01 16:39:04
270.   Bob Timmermann
You're just trying to get on my good side and get on Greg Brock's bad side.
2007-12-01 16:43:58
271.   trainwreck
Had to get Steve Lavin in there.
2007-12-01 16:44:44
272.   D Money
booty up the middle.

booty passes a long one.

booty goes deep.

booty is HUGE tonight.

2007-12-01 16:48:23
273.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA will have to aim for revenge next weekend in College Station in the women's soccer semifinals.
2007-12-01 16:57:11
274.   trainwreck
That total yards stat says it all.
2007-12-01 17:00:00
275.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA can't even claim an Arizona Diamondbacks style victory!
2007-12-01 17:02:09
276.   trainwreck
It is going to take me awhile to get used to saying Coach Mariucci.
2007-12-01 17:03:21
277.   Vishal
so far longshore is looking like old, pre-ankle injury longshore.
2007-12-01 17:07:45
278.   trainwreck
Pete Carroll sure is a classy fellow.
2007-12-01 17:08:28
279.   Bob Timmermann
I would describe the handshake there as "less than perfunctory."
2007-12-01 17:08:45
280.   Hallux Valgus
wow. West Virginia's uniform's are fighting for the ugliest in the country designation. They look like a giant highlighter.
2007-12-01 17:09:05
281.   D4P
Beavers just got a "leaping and landing on a player" personal foul.
2007-12-01 17:10:18
282.   Andrew Shimmin
OT in Oregon.
2007-12-01 17:11:19
283.   Marty
I'm going to channel Michael Palin and say I owe Brock a bbbbbbbbbeer.
2007-12-01 17:11:35
284.   Bob Timmermann
The end of the Civil War makes it seem that both teams can't find their way to Appomatox.
2007-12-01 17:20:15
285.   68elcamino427
2007-12-01 17:22:44
286.   Vishal
285 i was quite hoping another team would repeat this year. alas, it wasn't meant to be.
2007-12-01 17:23:48
287.   Bob Timmermann
Go Arizona State! I want to see my Bruins play in a minor bowl. I'm a devotee of them!
2007-12-01 17:24:06
288.   Vishal
287 of what, minor bowl games? :)
2007-12-01 17:26:39
289.   Hallux Valgus
Mizzou fans have traveled well to San Antonio.
2007-12-01 17:27:40
290.   Andrew Shimmin
Every Bowl that isn't the Rose Bowl is minor. What needs to happen for Ohio State to come to the right game?
2007-12-01 17:28:25
291.   trainwreck
Will Ed Kezerian be coaching them?
2007-12-01 17:28:41
292.   Hallux Valgus
290 Missouri and West Virginia need to win.
2007-12-01 17:29:48
293.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, I'm a devotee of minor bowls.

If the Large Game holds up, the Pac-10 could have a passel of 6-6 teams.

2007-12-01 17:42:31
294.   68elcamino427
Someday, UCLA will be Pac 10 champions, again.
2007-12-01 17:44:55
295.   Hallux Valgus
294 I think he meant Cal, who split with SC last year
2007-12-01 17:46:04
296.   Vishal
280 striking, yes. bright? certainly. ugly... not really.
2007-12-01 17:47:22
297.   Vishal
295 that is indeed what i meant.
2007-12-01 17:47:22
298.   Vishal
295 that is indeed what i meant.
2007-12-01 17:50:10
299.   Andrew Shimmin
Ooh. Steven Pinker is on CSPAN2, tonight, at nine.
2007-12-01 17:50:14
300.   Bob Timmermann
I'm sure bowl reps are salivating over the number of tickets they can sell to eager Cal, Oregon, and UCLA fans. All those teams are finishing the season on a roll!

Does roll necessarily imply something good?

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-12-01 17:50:22
301.   Linkmeister
I'll be dogged. We actually get Versus, which is the channel Cal-Stanford is on. That'll make Mom happy.

I'm torn. Should I watch alma mater Arizona play the hated Sun Devils, or should I pay attention to Mizzou-Oklahoma (the latter being my late father's alma mater)?

2007-12-01 17:50:46
302.   Hallux Valgus
296 actually, correct. Especially because your Bears had similar uniforms, which I enjoyed.

It was just an assault on the rods and cones after USC/ Ucla.

I think the worst eye assault would be Clemson's all purple vs. Tennessee's all orange, and I actually like the Grimace look on it's own.

2007-12-01 17:52:21
303.   Linkmeister
ESPN's trailer tells me East Carolina has accepted a bid to the Sheraton Hawai'i Bowl. The morning paper had the results of an unofficial poll of Boise State players which had them wanting to come back here for the other side of that bowl.

There's going to be an attendance problem for that game if the Bows/Warriors actually get into the Sugar Bowl.

2007-12-01 17:54:51
304.   Bob Timmermann
Should I lift my boycott against Linkmeister's alma mater?

But they could keep UCLA out of a lucrative trip to Las Vegas or Fort Worth.

2007-12-01 17:55:56
305.   Linkmeister
304 Yes. If UCLA had any pride it would turn down invitations to either of those bowl games. ;)
2007-12-01 17:56:56
306.   Hallux Valgus
303 Isn't there always an attendance problem when one team isn't Hawai'i? I think there's also a revenue problem, because it costs more to ship the team than is acquired from the bowl. I know Colorado has had that probem, even without shipping Ralphie.
2007-12-01 17:57:26
307.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the Pac-10 would let a team turn down a bowl invite if they had to contractually fill it.

Sets a bad precedent.

2007-12-01 17:59:45
308.   Bluebleeder87
I got jipped! I thought HD T.V. was gonna be life changing (I just got my new LCD flat screen) It's o.k. I'm not complaining but it's not all that. Or maybe I'm just going threw old t.v. withdrawals I had my old reliable Fisher for about 10 to 12 years, I can't even remember.
2007-12-01 18:00:40
309.   Andrew Shimmin
308- What sort did you get?
2007-12-01 18:01:48
310.   Vishal
304 yes, you should.
2007-12-01 18:03:56
311.   Jon Weisman
308 - Do you have the HD service actually coming in? Some people buy the TV without getting the service.
2007-12-01 18:04:37
312.   Jon Weisman
This, you won't need HD for:

2007-12-01 18:06:30
313.   Bluebleeder87
I got a "ViewSonic" 32" incher, maybe I should have gotten a brand name? ViewSonic is pretty good though no.
2007-12-01 18:09:08
314.   Bluebleeder87

That must be it, I have to make sure though.

2007-12-01 18:10:07
315.   Marty
312 Was she ever in a South Carolina beauty pageant?
2007-12-01 18:11:51
316.   Marty
I've been told that getting the HD feed will improve the look on non-HD TVs. Anyone else ever hear that?
2007-12-01 18:14:30
317.   Jon Weisman
10-point lead, 20 minutes to go
2007-12-01 18:14:42
318.   Eric L
316 Will a non-hd TV even show an HD feed?
2007-12-01 18:15:55
319.   Hallux Valgus
316 That is extremely untrue, in my experience.
2007-12-01 18:16:20
320.   Vishal
2007-12-01 18:16:34
321.   Bluebleeder87
Oh man, did you guys here Randy Wolf signed with the Pads?
2007-12-01 18:16:49
322.   Bob Timmermann
I think you would need a converter to see an HD feed on a non-HD TV. So you might as well watch the HD.

My non-HD channels look pretty muddy. "Mad Men" on AMC looked like it was shot through a screen door.

2007-12-01 18:16:53
323.   Marty
I'm skeptical, but one of my employees told me he was doing that.
2007-12-01 18:17:32
324.   D4P
Who woulda thunk that Oregon and Cal would end up a combined 14-10. Yuck.
2007-12-01 18:18:27
325.   Bob Timmermann
Greg Brock probably did.
2007-12-01 18:20:02
326.   D4P
Football is too violent, and injuries determine too many outcomes.

They should really consider converting to two-hand touch.

2007-12-01 18:20:19
327.   Hallux Valgus
we got an HD DirecTV receiver about 3 days before we got an HD TV. There was no difference in the quality. When we got the TV, it seemed that there was a significant difference between TV in HD and TV in D (and not just because of the HD. Our regular D seems worse, based on the other regular D TV's we have in the house).
2007-12-01 18:21:38
328.   Andrew Shimmin
The first monitor I ever bought was a ViewSonic 15" CRT. It was excellent.
2007-12-01 18:27:23
329.   Vishal
wow, a break.
2007-12-01 18:28:18
330.   D Money

that did nothing to lessen my love for Kellie Pickler...
nothing at all.

2007-12-01 18:30:08
331.   Marty
I had never heard of Kellie Pickler before that video. I had to look her up. Anybody that thinks Europe is a country will not be on my need to meet list.
2007-12-01 18:30:58
332.   Vishal
312 if you KNOW you're going to go on a quiz show, wouldn't you at least LOOK at a bloody map, first?
2007-12-01 18:32:17
333.   Jon Weisman
For those of us who watched Idol, there were many who thought her dumb act was just that - something she contrived to get herself attention. But if it's just an act, she is truly committed.
2007-12-01 18:33:25
334.   Bluebleeder87
I have a feeling Randy Wolf is gonna be another one of those players that leaves us & immediately becomes great specially against us.
2007-12-01 18:34:00
335.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody that thinks Europe is a country. . .

It has a currency. It has an anthem. I'm with her, on this one.

2007-12-01 18:34:29
336.   Marty
She was on American Idol? Man, I'm out of it.
2007-12-01 18:34:53
337.   Marty
Europe has an anthem?
2007-12-01 18:39:01
338.   Andrew Shimmin
337- The best anthem ever. They cheated, of course, but when you steel from Beethoven, it's not so bad. The flag is ugly, though.

2007-12-01 18:39:11
339.   D4P
Europe has an anthem?

"It's the final countdown...!"

2007-12-01 18:41:48
340.   trainwreck
I knew someone was going to say it.
2007-12-01 18:42:08
341.   trainwreck
Or rather type it.
2007-12-01 18:43:29
342.   Vishal
how do we not even have a first down in the 2nd half? this is disgusting.
2007-12-01 18:43:46
343.   D4P
I tried to find a clip instead, but couldn't.
2007-12-01 18:45:37
344.   Bob Timmermann
Missouri and West Virginia are both trailing now.
2007-12-01 18:46:51
345.   Jon Weisman
10-point lead, 10 minutes to go
2007-12-01 18:48:01
346.   Vishal
hahah, wow. this is so ugly.

on the plus side, that interception made me officially over this whole year.

2007-12-01 18:49:05
347.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA will be the only California school to defeat Stanford this year.
2007-12-01 18:49:35
348.   Bob Timmermann
Slaton is out for the game for the Mountaineers.
2007-12-01 18:52:13
349.   Andrew Shimmin
Missouri and West Virginia apparently hate me.
2007-12-01 18:52:17
350.   trainwreck
I do not want to see Ohio State vs Georgia or LSU.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-12-01 18:55:03
351.   Bob Timmermann
Georgia and Ohio State know the key to success in the BCS ratings this year.

Don't play.

2007-12-01 18:55:43
352.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh, there you go. Mizzou ties it up. Alright WV, your turn.
2007-12-01 18:55:48
353.   Bob Timmermann
I should say it's White who is out. Slaton is OK.
2007-12-01 19:07:28
354.   Jon Weisman
2007-12-01 19:16:41
355.   Bob Timmermann
I think that interception may have bounced.
2007-12-01 19:17:12
356.   Vishal
hah, fittingly enough, longshore throws another 4th quarter interception instead of connecting for the touchdown on two pretty decent throws.
2007-12-01 19:18:04
357.   Jon Weisman
2007-12-01 19:18:31
358.   Bob Timmermann
But I can live with that call.
2007-12-01 19:19:00
359.   Vishal
357 hehe, taking it back?
2007-12-01 19:20:09
360.   Bob Timmermann
West Virginia has run 6 plays from scrimmage in the second half.
2007-12-01 19:21:30
361.   Bob Timmermann
The Ax Committees look like soldiers standing on opposite sides of Checkpoint Charlie.
2007-12-01 19:22:02
362.   Jon Weisman
It has taken nearly 15 minutes to go from 2:45 remaining to 1:45 remaining.
2007-12-01 19:23:59
363.   Vishal
2007-12-01 19:24:12
364.   Vishal
i don't mind losing, but the calls should be right.
2007-12-01 19:25:37
365.   Vishal
364 well, okay, i do mind losing too. but i'd be more at peace with it if the calls were right.
2007-12-01 19:28:24
366.   Vishal
361 "axe", bob. with an e.
2007-12-01 19:31:58
367.   Bob Timmermann
Of the five Pac-10 rivalry games, the school that has a shade of red in its colors is going to win or is ahead.

Oregon State (orange has red in it!)

and ASU is ahead.

2007-12-01 19:32:56
368.   Bob Timmermann
"Ax" works much better for Scrabble.
2007-12-01 19:34:32
369.   Vishal
congrats jon, and stanford. g'night!
2007-12-01 19:39:17
370.   Bob Timmermann
Cal's loss (or Stanford's win) has clinched a bowl berth for UCLA according to Brian Dohn of the Daily News.

The Bruins will be headed to either Fort Worth or Las Vegas.

2007-12-01 19:39:48
371.   Hallux Valgus
the BCS Championship is about to include a 2 loss team
2007-12-01 19:40:47
372.   trainwreck
Are we going to hire a new coach before DeWayne Walker coaches our team in the bowl game?
2007-12-01 19:44:09
373.   Bob Timmermann
A UCLA-BYU rematch will likely end more favorably for the men from Provo.
2007-12-01 19:57:23
374.   Bob Timmermann
Another year, another 13-9 upset.
2007-12-01 19:57:26
375.   dzzrtRatt
Congratulations, Jon and other Stanford fans. Arrgh.
2007-12-01 20:00:09
376.   Bob Timmermann
The Rose Bowl:

USC vs. ???????


2007-12-01 20:00:41
377.   Kingmans Performance
#2 West Virginia loses at home to a 4-7 team?

I'm gonna call Chris Dufresne at the LA Times and tell him to...

Ah, forget it.

2007-12-01 20:02:39
378.   Bob Timmermann
The Pitt-WVA game was so eerily similar to last year's USC-UCLA game.

Pitt had a great defensive scheme, helped out by an injury to White.

2007-12-01 20:03:16
379.   trainwreck
I think they will play Illinois.
2007-12-01 20:04:03
380.   Andrew Shimmin
Maybe Ohio State could retroactively forfeit a game that wouldn't cost them their Big 10 championship, but would keep them out of the BCS Nonsense Bowl. I'll go leave a comment revealing my plan on the GameDay blog, so that MLBAM can get to work implementing it.
2007-12-01 20:04:50
381.   KG16
376 - as much as I'd like to see Hawaii, I'm guessing they'll go with a Big 10 team, so Illinois.
2007-12-01 20:05:58
382.   bhsportsguy
372 I heard secondhand from a source at halftime that KD has another job lined up assuming he will be replaced.
2007-12-01 20:07:23
383.   bhsportsguy
376 Maybe USC can play Ohio State in the BCS title game? Probably not but really if Oklahoma wins out, the only challengers for that game will be LSU and Oklahoma.
2007-12-01 20:07:24
384.   trainwreck
Interesting. I am guessing wide receiver coach somewhere. I can't believe someone would give him offensive coordinator job.
2007-12-01 20:07:28
385.   Andrew Shimmin
382- Kevin Malone's dealership had an opening, eh? Well, good on him, I say.
2007-12-01 20:13:02
386.   bhsportsguy
384 You are close, though if he can coach WRs, that wasn't proven in 5 years at UCLA.

385 First MLBAM and now Kevin Malone? Just getting ready for the Winter Meetings?

2007-12-01 20:13:58
387.   Bob Timmermann
Jerry Palm doesn't think USC can jump that high. Probably Ohio State vs. LSU or Virginia Tech.

And I really can't see how Va Tech can go ahead of LSU.

2007-12-01 20:15:18
388.   Andrew Shimmin
Everything that the Bilderbergs and the Carlyle group get blamed for is really the doing of MLBAM. And the Free Masons. We were right all along about the Free Masons.
2007-12-01 20:15:31
389.   Bob Timmermann
Also, Arizona State no longer seems to be the pick for the Fiesta Bowl. Kansas vs. Oklahoma seems to be the favored matchup.
2007-12-01 20:18:55
390.   KG16
Please tell me that there is a way to keep OSU from being blown out in the BCS championship game

Also, how much more are we going to hear about needing a playoff system?

2007-12-01 20:20:40
391.   bhsportsguy
387 The UCLA folks at the game were somewhat low key about what will happen to the coach, USC folks were not as annoying as you thought they might be.
2007-12-01 20:22:15
392.   Xeifrank
390. We need a playoff system. 8, 12 or 16 team playoff is fine with me. The 15 or so exhibition games plus one meaningful game system is...
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 20:22:29
393.   Bob Timmermann
Well, some of my best friends are USC fans.

Can I safely say that?

2007-12-01 20:26:13
394.   Marty
You calling me annoying?

I actually don't think Ohio State will get blown out this time. LSU is banged up and not dominant. But I still wouldn't bet on Ohio State.

2007-12-01 20:27:04
395.   KG16
392 - here's the problem with a playoff system... every other sport says, "win your conference championship and you get to go to the playoffs". You'd have to do the same with football, I would think. Which means, factoring in at large and independent schools, you're looking at a 32 team playoff - that's 5 weeks. I can't see it working.

I'd be fine with a plus one system. Go back to all the old bowl tie ins (let the Cotton Bowl become important again) and then play one more game after all the bowls. Otherwise, go back to the old system.

2007-12-01 20:27:10
396.   trainwreck
So you were told what the job is?
2007-12-01 20:29:42
397.   bhsportsguy
394 No, unless you were sitting in the UCLA section. Actually aside from the guy walking by the fan party playing "Taps" before the game, my venture to the Coliseum was pretty uneventful.

Oh, and the fans were much more upset about the stadium issue than playing UCLA anyway.

2007-12-01 20:30:10
398.   Kevin Lewis
I hope the Hawaii game ends up being a great one to watch. I had higher hopes for Mizzou.
2007-12-01 20:31:20
399.   bhsportsguy
396 I was told with whom he has an offer assuming everyone is correct that he is gone.
2007-12-01 20:34:31
400.   Andrew Shimmin
Also, I suspect "bhsportsguy" is a composite character, alternately manned by Henry Kissinger, Mary Landrieu's husband, and Tom Cruise.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-12-01 20:35:48
401.   Bob Timmermann
And several members of the UN Security Council.
2007-12-01 20:36:31
402.   bhsportsguy
400 And members of the Dodger PR staff.
2007-12-01 20:39:36
403.   Andrew Shimmin
402- Are you all in the room together, or do you just take turns logging on from your homes/bunkers?
2007-12-01 20:43:31
404.   bhsportsguy
403 We take shifts, Mary Landrieu's husband only works a few hours a year.
2007-12-01 20:43:40
405.   Bob Timmermann
I logged in from my luxurious box at the site of the Davis Cup final. I orchestrated who would win this year.
2007-12-01 20:47:02
406.   Bob Timmermann
The 'Bows are wearing white today at home.
2007-12-01 20:48:05
407.   bhsportsguy
Citizen Kane is on TCM (West Coast).

I just like the parts with Bernstein and seeing Orson Welles age throughout the movie.

2007-12-01 20:49:12
408.   Bob Timmermann
Jerry Palm has now projected a Ohio State vs. LSU national championship game.

2007-12-01 20:52:50
409.   Andrew Shimmin
408- Ha! MLBAM shut him down before word could spread. Curious how you knew about it before the site crashed. . .
2007-12-01 20:54:51
410.   Andrew Shimmin
Rats. It's back up.
2007-12-01 20:56:13
411.   Bob Timmermann
So with a LSU vs. OSU chamionship, we're left with:
Rose: USC vs. ???
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. ????
Sugar: ??? vs. ????
Orange: Virginia Tech vs. ???

Georgia will get one of the spots as the will be in the top four.

I assume Kansas will get a spot.

That leaves three more: Hawai'i (if they win) and then two other teams that won't be all that compelling. Arizona State and Illinois?

2007-12-01 20:58:04
412.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh, there's another Tuiasosopo.
2007-12-01 20:59:52
413.   Bob Timmermann
Early on, it looks like Washington is going to physically manhandle Hawai'i.

And Washington stinks.

2007-12-01 21:17:07
414.   KG16
413 - Washington is becoming the bane of the WAC, and the savior of the BCS

And for that, I really dislike them.

2007-12-01 21:19:36
415.   Dodgers49
Twins Look for Yanks to Up Ante for Santana

>> Santana has a full no-trade clause and has a strong preference to play for the Yankees, the Mets or the Red Sox, who may be the only teams that can afford to make him the first pitcher to earn $20 million a season on a multiyear deal.

But the Mets are not serious contenders for Santana because their prospects are not good enough. The Los Angeles Dodgers and the Angels have solid prospects and high revenue, but the Dodgers will not trade first baseman James Loney or pitcher Clayton Kershaw, and the Angels are focused on a potential deal for third baseman Miguel Cabrera of Florida. <<

2007-12-01 21:26:29
416.   Xeifrank
395. You just take the major conference winners, plus a few of the highest ranked non conference winners. You could easily do this with 8, 12 or 16 teams depending on how generous you want to be with conferences like the Sun Belt, Mid American, Conf USA, Mountain West and WAC etc... If you haven't either won one of the major conferences or are ranked in the top 10 or so, you don't really need to be in the college football playoff system. Basketball and baseball playoffs are different as you can play many games in one week (apples and peaches).
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 21:28:19
417.   Xeifrank
USC vs Illinois in the 129th annual Bob Timmermann Rose Bowl. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 21:30:00
418.   Bob Timmermann
It's the Rose Bowl, presented by me.
2007-12-01 21:36:37
419.   bhsportsguy
418 Bob will be hosting Brent and Herbie at his home for New Year's Eve, assuming his cat approves.
2007-12-01 21:37:48
420.   Kevin Lewis
For a second there I thought ABC (ESPN) did their second side discussion over the PA system tonight.
2007-12-01 21:50:07
421.   KG16
416 - the thing is, if you go to a playoff, you kill the bowls, and there is no way that happens without bringing in the smaller conferences.

So really, I just don't see a playoff happening. And honestly, I don't think it would make the sport any better.

2007-12-01 21:51:17
422.   Bob Timmermann
"You are looking live at a one-bedroom apartment in South Pasadena, California, that appears to be decorated by a single male!"
2007-12-01 21:57:15
423.   bhsportsguy
422 If Hawaii loses and falls out of the top 12, just who is left to play in these games.
2007-12-01 22:00:30
424.   bhsportsguy
422 Really funny, but will you have enough pie for the whole TV crew?
2007-12-01 22:03:45
425.   Bob Timmermann
The Jerry Palm projections, assuming Hawai'i loses.

BCS championship: Ohio State vs. LSU
Rose: USC vs. Georgia
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. Arizona State
Sugar: Kansas vs. Illinois
Orange: Va. Tech vs. West Virginia

I would assume that if Hawai'i won, they would take Illinois' spot in the Sugar Bowl.

2007-12-01 22:04:56
426.   Bob Timmermann
I bought an apple corer this week!
2007-12-01 22:08:15
427.   bhsportsguy
425 Midwesterners invade the South.
2007-12-01 22:09:10
428.   silverwidow
Jason Bay might be headed to Cleveland (per Boston Herald).
2007-12-01 22:09:26
429.   bhsportsguy
Is it rule that all sideline reporters in Hawaii wear aloha shirts and leis?
2007-12-01 22:10:41
430.   Daniel Zappala
426 Do I get credit for this purchase? If so, I'd like the apple corer named after me.
2007-12-01 22:10:51
431.   Bob Timmermann
A USC-Georgia Rose Bowl would be a lot of fun to watch.

The Sugar Bowl probably doesn't care much who plays since LSU is going to be there anyway and those fans will take over New Orleans.

2007-12-01 22:11:33
432.   Bob Timmermann
We'll wait until after the Las Vegas Bowl.
2007-12-01 22:12:11
433.   Jon Weisman
I covered three high school football games in Hawaii for the Daily News, but I did not go native. But that's just print journalism.
2007-12-01 22:12:33
434.   Xeifrank
421. You don't really KILL the bowls. If the peach eating, Delaware loving bowl addicts insist on their bowls, they can still have them. The bowls, minus one bowl game, are nothing but exhibition games. If you really really cannot live without these exhibition games you can still have them PLUS the playoff system. The major bowl sites will be part of the playoff system, the lesser bowls like the Las Vegas Bowl and the Taco Bell Bowl could pick from the better teams that didn't make the playoff system. Both sides win. I find it strange that people don't think a college playoff system would improve upon things. Why did they go to a #1 vs #2? They obviously did it because they thought it was an improvement over the previous system. So somewhere, someone thinks a playoff system is a better merit for determining a champion than a ranking system. The problem lies in all the "Don't Move My Cheese" or "Don't Move My Cash Cow" folks who are entrenched in power. Change is difficult, and in this case would be for the better.
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:15:35
435.   bhsportsguy
433 So does Jim Harbaugh get an extension ala Charlie Weis?
2007-12-01 22:17:11
436.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Harbaugh, unlike Charlie Weis, can beat his archrivals.

He just has trouble beating the teams that aren't any good.

2007-12-01 22:18:23
437.   Jon Weisman
435 - I think he'll get as much as Walt Weiss.

Nevertheless, I think Jim's as secure as a 4-8 coach can be right now.

2007-12-01 22:19:21
438.   bhsportsguy
436 That's bold talk for a apple pie baking, peach and Delaware hating librarian.
2007-12-01 22:19:41
439.   Bob Timmermann
Hawai'i needs to dispense with the shovel passes.

Then again is that how its spelled. I always phoned them into the Daily News as "shovel" but once it was changed to "shuffle" and another time to "shuttle."

2007-12-01 22:21:17
440.   Xeifrank
Bob, it will be Illinois not Georgia in the BT Rose Bowl. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:23:07
441.   Bob Timmermann
I've seen Illinois play in the Rose Bowl. It was not a pretty sight. The Illini were carved up by Rick Neuheisel.
2007-12-01 22:23:55
442.   Xeifrank
440. And if not Illinois the Rose Bowl will select Stanford. They are the only team that can beat USC right now. :)
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:25:24
443.   Xeifrank
441. Yes, I was in Pasadena that day. And was told to "Suck Eggs" by many an Illini fan. The Illini fans seemed so cold and calculated in their insults. I was not impressed. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:26:28
444.   KG16
434 - honestly, I liked the old system. The only reason they went to the current system (well, actually, the first incarnation of the BCS) was to do away with split championships. They've since tweaked it (pretty much every year) to keep from having split championships and deal with other "errors" in the system. Bowls plus a playoff system would mean we'd be playing the national championship game just as March Madness was starting. I can't believe that many would like that idea too much.
2007-12-01 22:27:40
445.   Bob Timmermann
The Illini fans were really nice to me. But I also went to the game with my mom, so people are less likely to insult you in that case.

Unless they're Northwestern fans. Those people have no shame.

2007-12-01 22:33:09
446.   Xeifrank
Bowls plus a playoff system would mean we'd be playing the national championship game just as March Madness was starting

Ok, I see you are not serious about this. I will move on.
vr, Xei

2007-12-01 22:34:54
447.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Dohn reports that as long as ASU plays in a BCS game, then UCLA will go to Las Vegas to play BYU again.
2007-12-01 22:34:54
448.   Xeifrank
445. If Illinois is in the Rose Bowl I will have more than a few relatives visiting at New Years. They are all die-hard Illini fans, even though they live closer to the Salukis. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:39:44
449.   Bob Timmermann
And UCLA will travel to Provo on 9/13/2008.

Lots of BYU to go around. I hope Ben Olson enjoys the trip.

2007-12-01 22:42:09
450.   Greg Brock
Marty owes me a beer.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2007-12-01 22:45:04
451.   Daniel Zappala
Hail, Stanford, Hail.
2007-12-01 22:46:00
452.   Bob Timmermann
See comment 283
2007-12-01 22:46:20
453.   Greg Brock
For the record, I was rooting hard for a UCLA victory.

To make matters worse, I was watching the game with my four best friends, one of whom is a USC grad, and is, by all accounts, the most arrogant, condescending, annoying Trojan that ever lived. I wanted to punch him in the gulliver. My only defense was talking about Paul Hackett until he had a conniption fit.

So, sad we lost, happy that Dorrell is gone. We really have to get better. I cannot deal with smug Southern Cal fans any longer.

2007-12-01 22:46:23
454.   Daniel Zappala
Xei, you don't deserve a BCS playoff system until you post a response to the only comment your Xei on Sports blog has ever received. :-)
2007-12-01 22:48:07
455.   Daniel Zappala
If BYU beats UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl, does that work like retaking a class and erasing the previous grade? If so, that would leave BYU with one loss, and they should be BCS eligible!
2007-12-01 22:50:06
456.   Bob Timmermann
If BYU beats UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl, does that work like retaking a class and erasing the previous grade?

Spoken like a Stanford grad.

2007-12-01 22:52:18
457.   Daniel Zappala
456 Actually, I was thinking of some of my students!
2007-12-01 22:53:33
458.   KG16
I think it works like creative writing classes, you can take it twice, but both grades count.
2007-12-01 22:55:28
459.   Xeifrank
454. Am I suppose to respond? :)
My response would be along the lines of, I could live with one of the lesser conference winners being in the 8 team playoff if they had a high enough ranking to deserve a spot. If you are 10-2 with NO wins against ranked teams I would not shed a tear if such team was left out of an 8 team playoff.
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 22:55:43
460.   Bob Timmermann
In UCLA's last three games, they've had 43 3rd downs.

They have converted five of them.

2007-12-01 22:59:13
461.   Greg Brock
The only way to have a playoff is to have conference champions. Take the champs from the Pacific Ten, Big Ten, Big East, ACC, SEC, Big 12, and SEC, and add an at-large bid. For WAC/Conference USA/MAC teams or Notre Dame. Polls dictate seeding.

You can't get in the playoff if you don't win your conference.

2007-12-01 23:05:18
462.   dzzrtRatt
I don't know how much I really care about #1, #2. College football was the only sport that decided such things subjectively. What was wrong with that? You've got dozens of teams, and no way of equalizing the schedules. Choosing a winner by acclamation doesn't seem to be so unfair. The BCS system has failed to resolve anything, despite its pretense to objectivity. I don't think anyone is going to agree the top two BCS finishers are the best two teams in the nation, not this year anyway.

I wouldn't mind a Pac-10 championship game, though, with the Rose Bowl berth on the line.

2007-12-01 23:07:27
463.   KG16
461 - I'm fine with saying you have to win your conference to get in, but what happens when Hawaii is ranked in the top 10 along with TCU?
2007-12-01 23:08:03
464.   Xeifrank
461. So if the top two teams in the country are from the same conference you leave one of them out of an 8 team playoff? That probably wouldn't go over too well.
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 23:09:41
465.   KG16
462 - personally, I'm leaning towards going back to the old system. I always liked the split national championships.
2007-12-01 23:10:37
466.   Bob Timmermann
I don't like conference championship games. And I don't want the Pac-10 becoming the Pac-12.

I like how all the rivalry games finish the season. There were a couple years recently when the Pac-10 scheduled conference games after the rivalry games and they seemed weird. That late season UCLA-Wazzu game was odd.

2007-12-01 23:13:25
467.   Andrew Shimmin
They could do a 64 team tournament, but play OT rules games. You could finish that off in one weekend. And then have the Rose Bowl.
2007-12-01 23:16:32
468.   bhsportsguy
I am now watching Holiday Dessert Iron Chef America and I am just wondering if Billy Joel's next wife has been conceived yet.
2007-12-01 23:19:02
469.   Greg Brock
464 You shouldn't play for the title of "Best team in the country" when you aren't the best team in your conference.
2007-12-01 23:20:52
470.   KG16
469 - small sample size doesn't count in football?
2007-12-01 23:21:31
471.   KG16
470 - more seriously, what about a situation like the Big 10(11) where you could have a split conference championship?
2007-12-01 23:22:04
472.   Gagne55
The thing is that how the season plays out is going to make one playoff system look best in a given year. When USC and Texas both went undefeated in dominating fashion while nobody else went unbeaten, there was no controversy and it would have looked stupid to give other teams reprieves while the previous season there were five unbeatens and three had to settle for lesser bowl games.

This year especially makes a 16 team playoff look good as there are some one loss teams with weak scheduals (Ohio State, Kansas) and two loss teams with killer scheduals (USC, LSU, Georgia). Heck, if Hawaii come back, I might advocate putting them in the title game as the only unbeaten (not that voters would ever consider doing such a thing for a WAC team)

2007-12-01 23:23:19
473.   Xeifrank
469. In a 2 team playoff I could live with that. In an 8, 12 or 16 team playoff format where you were ranked #2 and didn't win your conference I couldn't. Are you against the wild-card in baseball and football? Are you against the NCAA basketball tourney? Are you against the NBA and NHL playoffs letting teams that didn't win their division into the playoffs? vr, Xei
2007-12-01 23:23:36
474.   Gagne55
469 It's not about being the best. It's about winning your games.
2007-12-01 23:26:06
475.   Gagne55
How about this for a compromise: There is a 12 team playoff. The top four ranked teams get a first round bye. A conference title is required, however for the bye, otherwise the bye goes to the next highest ranked conference champion.
2007-12-01 23:29:13
476.   Xeifrank
475. Ok, now it's Ok for a non conference winner to play for the championship? :)

Here is what the 12 team format would look like.

II. 12 Team Playoff
Pros: No undefeated major conference team should be left out.
Cons: Takes four weeks to play.

Seed the following twelve teams based on their BCS ranking.
1. Big 10 Champion
2. Big 12 Champion
3. SEC Champion
4. PAC 10 Champion
5. Atlantic Coast Conference Champion
6. Big East Champion
7(A). Highest ranked division winner of either Sun Belt, Conf USA, Mid American, Mountain West or Western Atheletic.
8(A). 2nd highest ranked division winner of either Sun Belt, Conf USA, Mid American, Mountain West or Western Atheletic.
9. Highest ranked team not in 1-8
10. 2nd highest ranked team not in 1-8
11. 3rd highest ranked team not in 1-8
12. 4th highest ranked team not in 1-8

(A) if no team from 7 or 8 rank in the BCS top 25 their spot will be replaced by the highest ranked team not in 1-6.

vr, Xei

2007-12-01 23:30:41
477.   Xeifrank
475. Ignore the first sentence of 476.
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 23:33:46
478.   Gagne55
For example, say the top twelve are as follows:
1.Ohio State
10.West Virginia
11.Arizona State

Georgia and Kansas didn't win their division and would not get byes. Rather, LSU and USC get byes despite not being in the top four.

2007-12-01 23:36:33
479.   LAT
Had a Frank and Jamie sighting tonight out at dinner. They were at the table next to us. I was tempted to say something, anything, but I thought I should let them enjoy their dinner with their son and friends instead. It was an Italian resturant. Maybe Joe recommended it.
2007-12-01 23:37:51
480.   Gagne55
478 OK, while I was typing that, Xei posted 476 . I like Xeifrank's 476 .
2007-12-01 23:40:44
481.   Xeifrank
479. That was nice of you. You did the right thing. vr, Xei
2007-12-01 23:40:54
482.   bhsportsguy
476 I don't see teams playing 16 possible games plus the problem with college teams has always been they rely so much on fan travel and even the LSUs and Ohio States would have issues bringing that many fans out to games.
2007-12-01 23:42:00
483.   bhsportsguy
479 I think you should have sold them on putting a new yogurt franchise on the Loge Level.
2007-12-01 23:45:39
484.   Xeifrank
482. That's a fair argument. It would only be a couple of teams that played extra games. They could remove one of the non-conference games if they wanted to, what Big 10 team really needs to play Youngstown State, Akron AND Kent State all in the same year? Thanks for the thoughtful response.
vr, Xei
2007-12-01 23:54:48
485.   LAT
483. Did I miss a Pinkberry thread or something?
2007-12-01 23:56:20
486.   bhsportsguy
485 I think that came up a few weeks ago, you chimed in on the Big Chill.
2007-12-02 00:03:18
487.   LAT
Yep, now I recall. If Frank put in a Big Chill or a Pinkberry it would be $8 a cup. Like King Taco. $3.5 burrito on Pico is $7.50 at DS.
2007-12-02 00:11:39
488.   bhsportsguy
487 I still can't believe people bought Krispy Kremes when they were sold at DS.
2007-12-02 00:27:50
489.   silverwidow
New Tony Jackson article on the upcoming winter meetings. Kershaw/Ethier for Santana was never on the table and the Dodgers would've jumped on it if true...

2007-12-02 00:33:46
490.   Bob Timmermann
Updated projections from Jerry Palm:
BCS championship: Ohio State vs. LSU
Rose: USC vs. Illinois
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. West Virginia
Sugar: Georgia vs. Hawaii
Orange: Virginia Tech vs. Kansas

Arizona State would be the odd team out in the BCS. So the Sun Devils would go to the Holiday Bowl Bowl. Oregon State should go to the Sun Bowl. Oregon to the Las Vegas Bowl. Cal to the Emerald Bowl. UCLA to the Armed Forces Bowl.

I'm guessing on all those.

2007-12-02 00:40:40
491.   Strike4
I'm still wearing mine.
2007-12-02 00:43:31
492.   bhsportsguy
490 Good, so you and Daniel can have a peaceful holiday season.
2007-12-02 01:23:32
493.   Benaiah
I have always thought that I wanted a college playoff system, it just seemed more fair. Fundamentally it comes down the injustice of a team winning every game and still losing by decision. How can someone decide that you lost the championship?

As I read the comments tonight though, I realized that I secretly I have always been against that homogenizing influence. It is tempting, but it is better the way it is. Some games aren't meant to be played in the most scientific method, sometimes are supposed to be judged in a less than perfectly scientific way. I would rather have things be organic, have different logic and soul, than have a tournament with de facto authority to decide who is the best team. Given all of the ways in which anything can happen in one game, and every team has to win more than one game so the odds of a fluke loss by the "best" team goes up. How much more efficient is a tournament? Does it really authoritatively answer the question: who is the very best team of the year? The unscientific ending to baseball's playoffs is a marked improvement over the best method to determine what team was the strongest (probably something like third order Pythagorean record against a standardized strength of schedule over 162 games). We love college football for its tragedies and triumphs. Underdog wins mean more in college football than anywhere else. It is a great system and lets keep it the way it is.

2007-12-02 01:56:56
494.   natepurcell
Memo to Greg Brock:

It was hit like the fist of an angry god.

2007-12-02 04:13:00
495.   Xeifrank
493. I wonder if you would feel that same way about the current system if over the past 50 years we did have an 8, 12 or 16 team playoff and they decided to scrap it and let a group of writers, coaches and software code determine who the champion was or play in the championship game, while 15 or so exhibition games were played after a 4-7 week layoff. While I understand how people love tradition, this seems to be more of a "Don't Move My Cheese" type of argument for the status quo.
vr, Xei
2007-12-02 05:12:46
496.   old dodger fan
Wow-What a great discussion on playoffs last night. Far too late in the night for this east coaster but a great read this am.
I find myself ready to appoint Xiefrank College Football playoff czar. I like the 12 team format. If it started next Saturday it could be finished much sooner than the system we have now. All the games could be part of the exisiting bowl system (rotate them or give em to the highest bidder). The last 3 games would be huge draws.
2007-12-02 06:42:04
497.   natepurcell
Rule 5 Thoughts.

I think Brian Barton has the ability to stick on a big league roster.

He's a CF who has very good plate discipline but unpredictable power.

I have heard rumblings that the Rays plan to take him but they have such a glutton of outfielders, it just doesn't make sense for them to take an outfielder and not a pitcher.

of course there are other teams between the Dodgers and the Rays but Barton is one guy that could stick on the big league roster; especially if we say bye bye to Juan.

2007-12-02 06:56:25
498.   D Money
finally a baseball post...all that boring college football... GO STEELERS!
2007-12-02 07:14:57
499.   Marty
I favor the Blazing Saddles playoff system.

Ok, we'll take conference winners and non-conference winners.

But we don't want the Irish!

2007-12-02 07:31:42
500.   Daniel Zappala
I prefer an 8-team playoff instead of 12 -- basically two extra games after the usual bowls. Take the 6 "major" conferences and each winner of their conference is in. Take the 5 "minor" conferences and the two highest-ranked teams from that group are in. A team that doesn't win their conference doesn't deserve a national championship -- it just doesn't make sense.

The NCAA basketball tournament manages to get good crowds even if the teams playing in later rounds aren't known ahead of time.

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2007-12-02 07:33:37
501.   Bumsrap
December 2 Chicago Tribune

"A survey of teams heading to the winter meetings finds that almost as many (17) are looking for outfielders as starting pitchers (18). Eight teams are specifically looking to improve in center field, which is why Aaron Rowand is in such a great spot — and the White Sox are in such a weak position as they try to upgrade in center and left... Seattle is considered the front-runner to sign pitcher Hiroki Kuroda, but the Cubs and Dodgers have paid him house calls."

2007-12-02 07:35:14
502.   Bumsrap
WhiteSox, Our new favorite trading partner?
2007-12-02 07:48:48
503.   Benaiah
495 - You are proposing a new, more accurate system to determine who is the champion of college football. I will concede that it would provide a clear cut "winner" to every college football season. What I don't concede is that system is superior just because it is more accurate. Why do all sports have to use the same format to determine who is the winner? We already use a playoff system in the NFL, so it isn't like we are starved for that experience in football. At most, I could see a 4 team playoff over two weeks with no conference linkings. Keep the rest of the bowls, not to appease some fringe wackos, but because it is a fine system that has worked for a long time.
2007-12-02 08:07:52
504.   therickdaddy
498 - I hear you. Worst time of the sports season is when college sports dominate the airwaves.
2007-12-02 08:57:03
505.   Greg Brock

Atta boy.

2007-12-02 08:58:29
506.   Vishal
a glutton of outfielders

i'm seeing images of a mythical monster roaming the outfield grass of tropicana, devouring baseball players left, right and center. carl crawford and elijah dukes running in terror; oh no! rocco baldelli's pulled a hammy! the monster pounces, his hunger never quite sated...

2007-12-02 09:09:53
507.   Vishal
also, re: BCS this year... i'm not sure i understand why it would be LSU over va tech in the BCS championship. i'm no va tech fan or anything, but the facts are thus:

*going into this week, va tech was ranked higher than LSU
*yesterday, va tech beat #12 by a margin of 16 points while LSU beat #14 by 7 points.
*va tech is a conference champion

i don't see any reason why this week LSU should suddenly leapfrog va tech. yeah, i know they beat the hokies by a lot early in the season, but if that was such a big deal, then why was va tech ranked ahead of them coming into this week in the first place?

it just doesn't make sense.

2007-12-02 09:23:20
508.   Dark Horse
Can someone please explain to me why it is the Yankees' offer of Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera is considered remotely adequate (at least by them) to land Santana? How could they possibly think this is sufficient? That strikes me as perhaps--perhaps--equivalent to offering Kershaw/Ethier. In fact, Cabrera's not actually as good as Ethier, so where do the Twins get off thinking we should surrender the likes of Kemp or Billingsley to boot.


2007-12-02 09:32:38
509.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the Twins want a third prospect and that's the stumbling point.
2007-12-02 09:43:21
510.   Jon Weisman
508 - Why do you assume the Twins consider that offer remotely adequate?

Because the media that recently said that a (now-debunked) Kershaw-Ethier offer was turned down said so?

2007-12-02 09:49:25
511.   Dark Horse
I don't imagine that the Twins consider that offer remotely adequate, but various reports suggest the teams are dickering about "a third prospect" (Alan Horne, Austin Jackson) and that indeed, it was some kind of sticking point on the Yanks' part even to consider trading Hughes.

I just don't quite get how Melky Cabrera is other than a throw-in, and the Twins don't demand Hughes, Chamberlain AND a third good prospect before Cabrera even dots-the-i on the deal? Sure, these are just rumors, but it's widely reported that Cabrera (a negligible player), Hughes (OK, fine) and an additional prospect who's not even Kennedy or Chamberlain could conceivably get it done.

I just want to see the Yankees overpay, that's all.

2007-12-02 09:55:25
512.   Jon Weisman
I just don't like seeing people coming here complaining about news that is inherently unreliable. And that's what 508 did.
2007-12-02 09:57:24
513.   immouch
I realize this is fantasy time, but I hope this: If the Dodgers trade Kershaw (a horrible idea) to anybody, they should convince the receiving team to swallow a contract - Pierre or Furcal or Kent. Such a trade would at least have the virtue of letting us learn sooner rather than later what we've got with some of our second tier youngsters - Young, Hu, Abreu...
2007-12-02 09:59:25
514.   Jon Weisman
To put a finer point on it:

"widely reported that (X) could conceivably get it done" is meaningless


2007-12-02 10:02:54
515.   Vishal
513 second tier

i don't like that phrase. they're younger, not less good. how about "second wave"?

2007-12-02 10:04:49
516.   immouch
515: fair point. if we like the ocean theme we could go with "rising tide" or "next set."
2007-12-02 10:05:31
517.   immouch
515: also, i'm not sure young is younger... think he's older, actually.
2007-12-02 10:07:05
518.   Disabled List
Dan Wetzel at Yahoo ended the discussion on what type of college football playoff system we should have with this column:

I love this idea, and I'm not even a huge fan of playoffs.

2007-12-02 10:25:54
519.   Xeifrank
518. Sounds very similar to the system I devised 3 years ago.

vr, Xei

2007-12-02 11:02:59
520.   D Money

i like the idea of making a team swallow one of our contracts, but you have are mixed up, Kent and Furcal are above average players at their positions, even with Furcals low OB% and Kents declining range.

Kent had the second highest VORP of all second baseman, if you dont believe me.

Furcal had an off year, while injured, but was our team MVP in 2006.

Pierre or Nomar are the contracts we need gone.

2007-12-02 11:09:48
521.   D Money
just found this on TrueBlueLA evaluating JP.

Everybody's whipping boy Juan had another sub-standard year. Since his OPS+ peaked in 2004 at 107 it has gone down every year and reached the nadir this year at 76. His VORP on the other hand was 16.8 and he wasn't at the bottom of the list as many have suggested. His EQA was .249, which is bad, but it is not Mark Kotsay .201 bad. Subjectively I felt his defense improved quite a bit as the season wore on. The same balls that he showed shaky routes in April he seemed to be catching with ease in August. His arm is what it is, but there are several center fielders playing baseball these days who have rag arms. He stole 64 bases and posted his career best in stolen base %. Baseball Prospectus rated Juan Pierre as the best baserunner in the game for 2007. Here is a brief snippet of what they said "Juan Pierre unseats Chone Figgins (who led the majors at +9.19 in 2006) and takes the title at +11.47 runs, or a little more than a win, which is almost three runs more than the next runner". He played in all 162 games and needs to take a seat against LHP once in a while, or preferably all the time.

I dont know how Young does vs lefties but maybe thats how he can get the door cracked so he can break it down (hopefully it lands on Pierre).

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