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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Baseball America Prospect Report
2007-12-04 08:59
by Jon Weisman

Baseball America offers its annual review of the Dodgers' top prospects today, with a chat for subscribers being offered at 10 a.m.

One thing that the BA report called to my attention was the control of James McDonald, who walked 37 in 134 2/3 innings while striking out 168. That could be of value if and when he gets that promotion to the Dodgers. Top prospect Clayton Kershaw, for example, walked 67 in 122 innings.

Some other comments:

McDonald has above-average command of three average to plus offerings. His 11-to-5, 69-74 mph curveball is the best in the system, and he has the feel to throw it in any count. His 87-93 mph fastball plays up because of deception in his delivery and his ability to add and subtract velocity. ...

Kershaw pitches off a fastball that rests comfortably at 93-94 mph. He touched 99 a handful of times last summer, including once with Los Angeles general manager Ned Colletti in the stands (the Great Lakes scoreboard posted a reading of 101 on the pitch).

It was also interesting to see Scott Elbert still rank highly, even coming off injury.

For comparison with the pre-2007 report:

Top 1020082007
1)Clayton Kershaw, LHPLaRoche
2)Andy LaRoche, 3BKershaw
3)Chin-Lung-Hu, SSElbert
4)Scott Elbert, LHPJames Loney, 1B/OF
5)Blake DeWitt, 3BTony Abreu, 2B
6)Chris Withrow, RHPIvan DeJesus, Jr., SS
7)James McDonald, RHPMeloan
8)Jonathan Meloan, RHPDeWitt
9)Delwyn Young, OFJosh Bell, 3B
10)Pedro Baez, 3BPreston Mattingly, SS
Best Hitter for AverageYoungLoney
Best Power HitterLaRocheLaRoche
Best Strike-Zone DisciplineDeJesus Jr.Cory Dunlap
Fastest BaserunnerJovanny RosarioTrayvon Robinson
Best AthleteElbertMattingly
Best FastballKershawKershaw
Best CurveballMcDonaldElbert
Best SliderGreg MillerMeloan
Best ChangeupCody WhiteCarlos Alvarez
Best ControlMcDonaldKershaw
Best Defensive CatcherA.J. EllisGabriel Gutierrez
Best Defensive InfielderHuDeJesus
Best Infield ArmPedro BaezLaRoche
Best Defensive OutfielderJamie HoffmannHoffman
Best Outfield ArmXavier PaulPaul

Somehow, the tumbling Greg Miller still surpassed Jonathan Meloan for best slider.

Update: True Blue L.A. invites you to vote on the Dodgers' top-30 prospects.

Comments (177)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-04 10:01:47
1.   ToyCannon
I guess Jovanny Rosario gained a step on Trayvon Robinson from last year to this year.
2007-12-04 10:06:47
2.   ToyCannon
To Canuck from last thread. Yes, I've queued up my questions. I've found that if you send an email after any chat to the moderator and thank them for their time, they remember your name when the next chat comes up.
I tend to ask obscure questions because I want to find out information I don't have. I don't expect to find out anything new about the top ten guys. They already gave us their scouting reports when they did the top 20 for each league. Maybe some extra data on Withrow who didn't pitch enough innings to quaulify for the league lists but then he didn't pitch enough innings for anything to change from the time he was drafted.
2007-12-04 10:14:38
3.   CanuckDodger
1 -- Rosario was faster than Robinson last year too. I guess Matthews just didn't get the news. In spring training in 2006, the Dodgers lined up their fastest minor legauers for a foot race, with a cash prize, a hundred bucks or so, promised to the winner of the race. Rosario won, with Robinson placing second.
2007-12-04 10:22:13
4.   Jon Weisman

2007-12-04 10:25:29
5.   Kevin Lewis

I have lost all faith in the pageantry system.

Seriously, that would be horrible for the woman who needs to step down.

2007-12-04 10:25:57
6.   screwballin
Bob, from last thread, don't get your niece a Webkinz if she doesn't have a computer with internet. (That seemed like a possibility if they don't have cable.) If she can't get on the internet, then it's just a stuffed animal.

If internet isn't an issue, then she'll probably love it.

2007-12-04 10:27:22
7.   LogikReader

No pictures? Aw man!


Speaking of "aw man," would you believe the Red Sox are about to trade for Santana? That's a bit disappointing, since after all they are giving up Crisp and Lester, but not Ellsbury. To me it seems like a win for the Sox.,0,5628344.story?coll=hc_tab01_layout

2007-12-04 10:29:15
8.   LogikReader

A few other prospects were listed in the trade as well, so it's more than just "Crisp and Lester" for Santana

2007-12-04 10:39:24
10.   KG16
I'm really hoping Greg Miller turns it around, if for no other reason than the fact that he and I went to the same high school.
2007-12-04 10:40:11
11.   Jon Weisman
10 - Also, it would be good for the Dodgers.
2007-12-04 10:42:16
12.   Branch Rickey
I was confused by the newspaper today. So Ozzie Guillen, the manager for the White Sox, was telling the press that Miguel Cabrera, the player for whom the White Sox are hoping to obtain via trade, that Cabrera is looking better than ever and he's more valuable than they think?

"I told the Marlins he's going to be in the best shape you've ever seen him in"
"Whoever gets this guy is going to have a heck of a ballplayer with a different mentality. He's a big man and he has to take care of himself. . . . He has the power and talent to be one of the best players ever."

Interesting strategy. Remind me not to hire Mr. Guillen to represent me in a negotiation.

2007-12-04 10:45:02
13.   Benaiah
The 2008 Red Sox with Santana might be the best baseball team of all time. Their rotation:

Santana, Beckett, Schilling, Buchholz, Matsuzaka, with Wakefield as their 6th and Papelbon closing.

Meanwhile they also have a top five offense with plenty of opportunity to improve on last year. As much as I admire Theo, maybe he could be a little less intelligent so some other teams have a chance?

2007-12-04 10:49:54
14.   D4P
As much as I admire Theo, maybe he could be a little less intelligent so some other teams have a chance?

I wonder if Depo ever gets jealous. I doubt Theo does anything Depo couldn't.

2007-12-04 10:50:06
15.   Disabled List
Santana to the Red Sox for players NOT named Ellsbury or Buchholz? This is unbelievable. Randy Moss for a draft pick, Garnett for a bunch of stiffs, and now this? What spell did the city of Boston cast on the rest of the country that makes GMs in other cities bend over backward for Boston sports teams???
2007-12-04 10:50:50
16.   bhsportsguy
13 All-time? Will 4 of their starters win 20 games each? Will they have 3-4 HOFs in their lineup.

Probably the best team I saw play was the 1970's Reds with Morgan, Rose, Bench, Perez, et. al. though they did not have a standout starting staff, they still won a lot of games.

I'm not saying they won't be very good but all-time greatness is something that needs to be assigned only after the fact not before the games are played.

2007-12-04 10:52:35
17.   Kevin Lewis

Yea, if they pick up Santana, I don't know how they don't repeat as World Series winners, barring any injury or J.D. Drew normality.

2007-12-04 10:53:41
18.   Jon Weisman
14 - Didn't Theo quit the job on his own once? That proved to be savvy in its own way.
2007-12-04 10:54:49
19.   Jon Weisman
15 - Is someone again getting upset over something that hasn't happened?
2007-12-04 10:55:11
20.   Disabled List
If Theo ends up pulling off this Santana-for-nobody deal, the Sox could win 120 games next year.
2007-12-04 10:56:19
21.   Disabled List
19 Jon, I'm trying to be hysterically irrational here. Please don't interject common sense into my delirium.
2007-12-04 10:56:41
22.   ToyCannon
Looks good on paper. Some are calling it the best rotation in history. If they are all still pitching in Sept it might just be.
I would have taken the Yankee package until Hank opened his mouth. Then I would have traded him to the RedSox since the deals were about equal and no one is going to tell me what to do if I'm the Twin GM. I'm liking the guts of the new Twin GM. It is interesting how the two most complacent franchises(Twins, Angels) have come out smoking since they switched GM's even though they were both replaced in-house.
2007-12-04 11:02:43
23.   Kevin Lewis
per Jackson's article

"Unless either Jones or Rowand reduces his asking price -- or the Dodgers' tepid interest in free-agent Mike Cameron increases dramatically -- the club apparently will go into next season with an outfield of Andre Ethier, Juan Pierre and Matt Kemp, something Colletti has repeatedly said he is comfortable doing."

I am very comfortable with that possibility if we improve on pitching and let LaRoche fight for the job.

Paging Mr. Kent, Mr. Kent...are you coming back?

2007-12-04 11:03:51
24.   Kevin Lewis

Did you have the name WETPETS on Xbox live? I think I saw you logon last night/

2007-12-04 11:04:02
25.   jystakes
Speaking of GMs, so what are the chances of Logan White eventually becoming the Dodgers' GM? Especially if he has a special relationship with Colleti. Are we willing accelerate this promotion since delaying it could cause his departure? What is the track record of success of talented scouts becoming talented GMs? Bueller? Anyone?
2007-12-04 11:04:30
26.   Benaiah
16 - I said they might be the best. Santana isn't even on that team yet and anything could happen. However, I am putting it out there that the over/under on wins for the 2008 Red Sox with Santana is, conservatively, 105. Even without Santana I think they will be around 100.
2007-12-04 11:06:30
27.   LogikReader

Me? I don't even have an xbox... Interesting though, some guy took my identity and went on Xbox live!

Just kidding. What gave you that impression?

2007-12-04 11:16:01
28.   Benaiah
22 - They won 96 games last year with Lugo and Crisp providing replacement level offense and ERA's of 4.40, 4.76 and 5.15 from 3 of their top 5 pitchers. Ellsbury and Buchholz will replace Crisp and Taverez so already I see a 2-3 win improvement. Santana pushing Wakefield into long relief (a job he is uniquely suited for) could make the season historic.
2007-12-04 11:16:22
29.   MC Safety
Great another Boston dynasty. If someone hypothetically asked me what it would take for me to not be interested in baseball anymore, Johan Santana to the Sawx would be the answer.

So ESPN claims if your anyone but Boston your giving up your best pitching prospects and best young OF prospect, but if your Boston a few B pitching prospects, Coco Crisp ( who was benched for Ellsbury ), and MINF prospect get it done? I know Im delving into obvious territory here, but I guess I have a bigger question. If this situation is so dire, and I have no doubts we can put together a better package than that, does it come down to only Boston and NY having the cash?

To make a long story short, why arent we at least interested in the best pitcher in the game?

2007-12-04 11:17:21
30.   MC Safety
24 IIRC thats Fanerman.
2007-12-04 11:18:14
31.   Jon Weisman
29 - No, it comes down to the Dodgers thinking that the better package is too much to ask for. But it's not as if the Dodgers aren't interested.
2007-12-04 11:18:33
32.   bhsportsguy
26 Yeah, I know but I guess as someone who looks at things in the big picture and certainly baseball has the longest history of any of the major sports, with some qualifications, if that deal takes place, Boston could have a very good shot at being one of the better teams since the Free Agent era began.

But with Lugo at SS, Youk, a good but not classic 1B, and Drew's numbers on a downward trend, I think that without the DH, Boston's offense does not match other teams that get thrown into that discussion.

2007-12-04 11:19:13
33.   blue22
29 - Lester, Lowrie, Crisp, Masterson, and Lars Anderson is the potential package right now. That's a pretty good mix of youth that can contribute right now, plus some building blocks that are 1-2 years away.

And they still have to give Santana his $200M.

2007-12-04 11:19:54
34.   paranoidandroid
ToyCannon: I can't make the Clips game tonight but truly appreciate the invite.

While I prefer weeknights, with two small ones in diapers, it's proving a bit more difficult this year than past years to get down there. My children seem to be a tag team as far as spreading coughs and colds.

As a teacher, I'll have a three week break. I'm eyeing the game on the 27th against the Suns. I'll score some tickets on eBay and if you are at the game, I'll buy you a cold one.

After the 4-0 start, they are starting to really collapse. Tonight is a big game. They have to stay near .500 until they get a bit more healthy.

2007-12-04 11:23:15
35.   bhsportsguy
29 I think that the Dodgers are in a spot where their best tradeable parts (not the Abreus, Hus, McDonalds, etc.) are players that are being counted on to play next year.

Now, would they deal Elbert, sure but with his injury, he probably does not have value and besides teams are going to ask for Kershaw or Chad.

In a way, we are punished by having really good young players because if this was another year from now and we had Withrow as a top prospect with Baez becoming a top position player, then we could deal them for vets that could help now. But to trade any of young players in multiples to fill one need just opens up another.

2007-12-04 11:24:52
36.   paranoidandroid
Toy: Please let me know you read my post so you aren't holding a ticket for me.

Happy Hannukah to all my tribe members in DT land.

2007-12-04 11:27:46
37.   Bob Timmermann
"Yeah, how many of those gals with the crown owe everything to me. I made them. Yeah, I made 'em, just like a-like a tailor makes a suit of clothes. I take a nobody, see, teach her what to say, get her name in the paper, pay for her fashion expenses. Dish out a lot of groceries and coal, get my boys to bring the voters out, and then count the votes over and over again till they added up right and she was named Miss California."
2007-12-04 11:29:43
38.   Kevin Lewis

I mistook you for someone else. I imagine there will be a comment later on today with the real identity.

Sorry about that

2007-12-04 11:30:34
39.   MC Safety
35 Im pretty sure we can put something together comparable to that without leaving any holes. Some package of Elbert/McDonald, DeWitt/Bell, Meloan/Broxton, or even Abreu/Hu is not going to leave any major holes this year.
2007-12-04 11:32:17
40.   MC Safety
38 see 30
2007-12-04 11:34:25
41.   paranoidandroid

They want Bills or Kershaw and Kemp and/or Loney. They want some major league ready talent and some blue chips prospects.

If they would consider our Coco Crisp (Slappy), we'd have a better shot at the deal. We don't have a desirable discard like Crisp to include.

2007-12-04 11:34:34
42.   bhsportsguy
39 But that's the problem, I am sure the Dodgers are telling teams what they are willing to trade but from a PR stance, if you do a deal with the Dodgers and you trade a Santana or Cabrera and you do not get two or three of our top guys, you will look like the loser in the deal.

That is why the Dodgers are in the position they are in.

2007-12-04 11:36:18
43.   Ranma
Rosenthal is reporting that Florida is in talks with Detroit to send both Cabrera and Willis for a package of prospects including Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller.

2007-12-04 11:39:28
44.   D Money
i like how our most athletic athlete is elbert, a pitcher.

also, what happened with Mattingly that caused him to fall from grace?

2007-12-04 11:41:49
45.   regfairfield
41 Coco Crisp is not, in anyway, Juan Pierre.

44 Sucking for two years straight does that.

2007-12-04 11:43:49
46.   ToyCannon
No problem. I appreciate the offer but 20 games will be punishment enough this year.
2007-12-04 11:45:10
47.   ToyCannon
How did he suck in 2006? Most thought his initial season was a success. It is what got him on the prospect lists in the 1st place.
2007 is another story.
2007-12-04 11:46:56
48.   Kevin Lewis

You are correct. Thank you

2007-12-04 11:47:01
49.   regfairfield
47 Suck was probably a harsh term, his season was better than I remembered, but he still struck out four times more than he walked and displayed very little power.
2007-12-04 11:48:36
50.   MC Safety
42 I understand teams dont like budging. I just refuse to believe that the Twins best deals are coming from the Sawx. According to Peter Gammons the Twins are deciding between a 3 for 1 with Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson or a 4 for 1 with Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, and Masterson. Money or has to be a factor, the Dodgers could trump that easily without selling the farm, and mortgaging the future.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-04 11:50:25
51.   Bob Timmermann
Restoring margins....


2007-12-04 11:50:56
52.   Bob Timmermann
That didn't work. Hmm...
2007-12-04 11:52:48
53.   MC Safety
50 Yikes, I think I'll start editing a little more.
2007-12-04 11:54:50
54.   underdog
36 Mazel Tov, bro.

I've been trying to compile a list of good Hanukkah movies for work today and there are like... 3. If you consider "The Hebrew Hammer" good. Sigh.

43 My Tigers fan friend is hoping Rosenthal is reporting incorrectly.

2007-12-04 11:55:24
55.   CanuckDodger
50 -- The Dodgers would be stupid to try and top that, though. Forget about Santana. He doesn't even want to play on the west coast so he really would be a one-year rental for L.A.
2007-12-04 11:57:46
56.   Marty
The Hebrew Hammer would be a great nickname.
2007-12-04 11:59:25
57.   fanerman
Kevin Lewis,

I'm WETPETS. You're Lyle Hutz, right? I was playing Halo3 campaign with my roommate.

2007-12-04 12:00:14
58.   fanerman
If the Red Sox didn't have ManRam, I'd start to be hating that (assuming they get Johann).
2007-12-04 12:01:58
59.   fanerman
them, not that.
2007-12-04 12:02:01
60.   MC Safety
55 How would they be stupid trying to snag one of the best pitchers in the game for a few prospects, and B prospects at that? Do you have a link to confirm that?
2007-12-04 12:02:33
61.   Marty
Stephen A. Smith on bloggers:

And when you look at the internet business, what's dangerous about it is that people who are clearly unqualified get to disseminate their piece to the masses. I respect the journalism industry, and the fact of the matter is ...someone with no training should not be allowed to have any kind of format whatsoever to disseminate to the masses to the level which they can. They are not trained. Not experts."

2007-12-04 12:04:37
62.   underdog
I stand corrected. My Tigers fan friend would be excited about that trade, he just told me.
2007-12-04 12:06:20
63.   MC Safety
61 Other expertise from Stephen A. (paraphrasing): " Look out for the Denver Nuggets! If Kenyon Martin's healthy, lookout Western Conference! LOL!
2007-12-04 12:07:51
64.   D Money
since when is Stephen A. Smith an expert...
he is a blubbering idiot that turns any issue he can into a someone being racist matter.
2007-12-04 12:08:58
65.   underdog
Now the Angels are involved in Santana talks, too:

Jered Weaver and Brandon Wood... for starters? Wow. You go Twins.

2007-12-04 12:09:27
66.   regfairfield
61 So many jokes flooding me all at once...
2007-12-04 12:09:32
67.   Cornell Blue Fan
From ESPN:

The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O's are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. "They want Bedard bad," said the source.

2007-12-04 12:11:34
68.   CanuckDodger
60 -- We're not getting "one of the best pitchers in the game" for "a few B prospects." I mean, come on. Minnesota is just taking what they have to from Boston because with the Yankees bailing out Boston is the only place that Santana is willing to sign long term.
2007-12-04 12:13:06
69.   D Money


2007-12-04 12:13:20
70.   Ranma
54 You can tell your Tigers friend that he/she can relax as I neglected to mention that the report noted the talks between the two teams as "preliminary". Also, on the ESPN Winter Meetings blog, Peter Gammons reports at 12:30pm ET today that the Florida GM doesn't think the talks are serious. I, myself, would like to snag Maybin from the Tigers, especially if the topic of my next paragraph is true.

However, there may be some cause for celebration for some and worry for others as Amy Nelson (who?) from the same blog at 2:56pm ET is citing a baseball source that claims the Dodgers want Erik Bedard bad and that a deal may be close to happening where Broxton and Kemp go over to Baltimore.

2007-12-04 12:14:40
71.   underdog
High price to pay, though Bedard would be a studly addition to the pitching staff. Man, I can give up Broxton, but Kemp... not the Bison!
2007-12-04 12:15:04
72.   regfairfield
67 It's nice to see that rumors are actually becoming reasonable.
2007-12-04 12:15:05
73.   Benaiah
67 - That is pretty fair. I wish it wasn't Kemp but you gotta give something to get something. The Dodgers would have to sign a FA outfielder to replace some of the lost offense.
2007-12-04 12:15:12
74.   D4P

WFAN is reporting on a possible trade of Erik Bedard to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp and Jonathan Broxton. It's a fair return, though we wouldn't be surprised to see the Orioles hold out for a fairly valuable third piece. Broxton would close in Baltimore, while Kemp would be an option both in center and left. Dec. 4 - 3:09 pm et

2007-12-04 12:15:24
75.   Sam DC
I have an Orioles fan friend (he grew up in Charm City so he gets a pass) asking who this Matt Kemp is. I gave him my take, but does anyone have a good link -- has Jon written a good Kemp post I can link?

I will give him the True Blue Matt Kemp at 22 but it makes a narrow point and doesn't quite have the scope/detail I'm hoping for.

2007-12-04 12:15:44
76.   fanerman
65 And Torii and Santana are re-united!
2007-12-04 12:15:46
77.   Dave G
61 - What's interesting about that is how his opinion completely subverts the most fundamental principles of our society. "Someone with no training should not be allowed to have any kind of format whatsoever"... Well, why don't we just eliminate the ability to report news of any kind without an official license? Who's supposed to decide who's "trained" and "expert" and who's not? I am sure many bloggers (especially ones like Jon) are more "trained" than many reporters--and Jon IS trained as a reporter! In Stephen A.'s 2-D world, free speech and free press should be limited on the internet because "the masses" are too stupid to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some people are willing to say the most outrageously silly things.
2007-12-04 12:16:53
78.   D4P
Over-under on number of days Kent waits to announce return after Kemp is traded:


2007-12-04 12:17:49
79.   fanerman
The Bison! I suppose it's fair.. but, The Bison!
2007-12-04 12:18:16
80.   natepurcell
If its just Kemp and Broxton, it would be a fair trade but I still don't want to do it. Its going to make our offense even less powerless.
2007-12-04 12:18:41
81.   Ranma
62 Well, in that case, tell him not to get his hopes up.

67 Beat me to the punch.

2007-12-04 12:19:48
82.   fanerman
77 It's Stephen A. Smith. The word "logic" isn't in his dictionary.
2007-12-04 12:19:49
83.   Cornell Blue Fan
Our BP wouldn't be as strong either...who would replace Broxtasaurs in the pen?
2007-12-04 12:19:53
84.   D4P
Cue NPUT headline:

Bye, Son

2007-12-04 12:20:50
85.   Bleed Dodger Blue
Beat me to the punch, too.

Here's a link from ESPN's winter meeting blog.

"2:56 p.m. ET, from Amy Nelson
• The Orioles and Dodgers may be close on a deal that will send left-hander Erik Bedard to Los Angeles, a baseball source said. The O's are in need of a center fielder and a closer who can play at the major league level, and the Dogders seem willing to part with outfielder Matt Kemp and reliever Jonathan Broxton, who could come in a close in lieu of Chris Ray, out for the year after Tommy John surgery. "They want Bedard bad," said the source."

2007-12-04 12:21:52
86.   regfairfield
83 Meloan, eventually. Until then, ugh, Proctor or something like Ron Mahay.
2007-12-04 12:22:00
87.   LogikReader

I don't think it's fair. You're about to trade the man with one of the highest OPSes on the team for a pitcher who will only start every 5th day.

Ok, the rotation is suddenly nice, but for what? What if Kemp will piles up biger numbers in Baltimore?

2007-12-04 12:22:47
88.   underdog
83 Meloan? Plus we have McDonald and Kershaw coming, they could potentially start in the pen. Plus Proctor, etc. I'd hate to lose Meloan, too, but for Bedard I'd do it in a sec. Kemp, I'm less thrilled about, and "a third piece"? You've got to be kidding, Baltimore.
2007-12-04 12:23:47
89.   underdog
Okay, I call moratorium on posting blurbs about this possible trade for awhile, eh?
2007-12-04 12:24:56
90.   regfairfield
If this is true, when was the last time we got a superstar in a trade? Green for Mondesi, or is Bedard better than that?
2007-12-04 12:25:48
91.   fanerman
84 "Bye Bye, Son" would make more sense as a phrase, while keeping the pun intact.
2007-12-04 12:26:21
92.   MC Safety
I dont like any deal that has Matt Kemp going to another team.
2007-12-04 12:26:25
93.   MC Safety
I dont like any deal that has Matt Kemp going to another team.
2007-12-04 12:27:28
94.   Cornell Blue Fan
"Bye Bye, Son" with a picture of a smiling Kent popping out of a trash can
2007-12-04 12:27:39
95.   underdog
Thinking about this more - I understand possibly trading Andy LaRoche in the right deal, especially since the Dodgers also have a couple of other third base prospects that could step in soon or later, but with Kemp you're dealing away about the only top outfield prospect you have for awhile (save Delwyn Young, who I like, but he doesn't quite have all of Kemp's tools). So the rotation would be strong, but, yeah, they'd have to sign another overpriced veteran outfielder (though I'd be fine with A Jones) and have little help on the way for quite awhile.
2007-12-04 12:27:53
96.   bigcpa
I would give up Kemp/Broxton for Jones/Bedard if McCourt would just cough it up already.
2007-12-04 12:28:35
97.   LogikReader

I'll adhere to the moratorium, but not before I say: If this goes through, nobody knows how to spend more for less than Ned Colletti.

2007-12-04 12:31:01
98.   CanuckDodger
In the Baseball America chat going on right now, Alan Matthews responds to the Bedard for Kemp and Broxton rumor and says the deal would be "short sighted." Of course it would be, and that is what we expect from Colletti. All the nonsense Colletti has been spewing about relying on the kids and not filling one hole by creating multiple holes in other places was just posturing. I believe that even if this Bedard deal doesn't go through. Colletti is talking to too many teams about trades for costly players (costly in terms of talent) for him to be remotely serious about "staying the course."
2007-12-04 12:31:20
99.   Jon Weisman
61 - I guess I still have to aspire to be able and willing to spread rumors like all the other professional gatekeepers.
2007-12-04 12:32:03
100.   underdog
97 I didn't call for a moratorium on discussing this, mind you, just posting the various rumors on it all saying essentially the same thing. But as you can see, I'm obsessing about it, too.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-04 12:32:49
101.   Sam DC
I vote no.

Anyone else want to vote?

2007-12-04 12:32:56
102.   Disabled List
Think the O's will take Pierre instead of Kemp? Maybe Young and Mcdonald?

How about Roger the Peanut Guy?

(I stuck my head inside the hot stove. Still a little loopy.)

2007-12-04 12:33:28
103.   bhsportsguy
98 But you admit that you have a bias about dealing any of the young players for anyone.
2007-12-04 12:33:55
104.   DeucesAreWild
Does anybody know Bedard's current contract details?
2007-12-04 12:33:56
105.   underdog
98 Once again - and I'm reminding myself of this now as much as anyone else - these are still rumors, and not just that, they could be yet another example of teams asking the Dodgers for certain players. Doesn't mean the same as the Dodgers offering certain players. Who knows? It's clear the Dodgers would like Bedard, that's about all I know at this point.
2007-12-04 12:34:18
106.   bigcpa
No way we open the season with Delwyn/Pierre/Ethier in the OF. That means Mike Cameron won't work. We just need Rowand to sign with Phi/CHW to force Ned into a 4 yr deal for Andruw.
2007-12-04 12:34:49
107.   paranoidandroid
Hebrew Hammer was my nickname for Shawn Green.
2007-12-04 12:35:22
108.   D Money
Jon.... i think we flip out about these rumors because it makes us feel better that maybe we can prevent them? even though we have no real say.
i dunno.
just throwin it out there

no from me too

2007-12-04 12:36:15
109.   silverwidow
Does anybody know Bedard's current contract details?

Free agent after 2009 season.

2007-12-04 12:36:34
110.   Curtis Lowe
I vote no.

Kemp is a rare young talent and Broxton is elite. Maybe a Ethier/Mcdonald, Ethier/Broxton but not Kemp and Broxton for Bedard. Even a package of LaRoche/Young/Pitcher but not Kemp and Broxton.

2007-12-04 12:37:06
111.   D4P
Yesterday from Rotoworld:

WFAN radio in New York reports that "there's news floating around that the Mets are close on Erik Bedard."

2007-12-04 12:37:26
112.   Jon Weisman
"They want Bedard bad," said the source.

The "They" in this quote indicates that it's from outside the Dodger organization. That means there is no source from within the Dodger organization giving this rumor any credibility.

Without discounting this rumor entirely, it seems calculated to drive up interest in Bedard.

2007-12-04 12:38:29
113.   Disabled List
I gotta say, I love a rotation with Penny, Bedard, Billingsley and Lowe heading it up. Not as good as the Red Sox' potential Rotation of the Gods, but not bad.

Gonna be a lot of 2-1 and 3-2 games next season if this one goes through.

2007-12-04 12:38:33
114.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I would be okay with the rumored Bedard deal, but only if we sign Andruw Jones.

I like Kemp A LOT, but quality young pitching is a truly precious commodity.


2007-12-04 12:38:36
115.   paranoidandroid
Do not trade Kemp. Do not trade Kemp. PLEASE do not trade Kemp.
2007-12-04 12:38:48
116.   Jon Weisman
108 - You flip out because you choose to. I don't mean that unkindly, but it's the truty. You want power over them? Accept that 99 percent of them are untrue. That gives you more rumor-prevention medicine than anything else you can offer.
2007-12-04 12:38:59
117.   MC Safety
55 I still havent seen anything regarding Santana's east coast demands. If the Angels are involved, Id have to think you got some bad info.
2007-12-04 12:39:16
118.   Dark Horse
98-I don't like this rumored trade, but I don't think we can have it both ways. Of course Colletti is talking to teams about good (that is to say, costly) players. That's his job. But it's ridiculous to say Colletti is "spewing nonsense" and "posturing" by investigating these things, or even by pulling the trigger on one of them. Again, that's his job: not to horde prospects, but to build a competitive baseball team. The lousy back end of our rotation last year was a huge weakness. But if he should choose to deal Matt Kemp, that's not a de facto indication that he's not serious about our young players. It just means he traded one for another, also very gifted, big league pitcher in his prime.

You can like the idea or not (I don't, like I say), but to extrapolate it into a very tired attack on Ned Colletti is unfair.

2007-12-04 12:40:11
119.   regfairfield
107 I prefered Joltin' Jew. Granted it does involve dropping a hard J.

112 Even if the rumor isn't true, I at least like the fact that it's interesting enough to drive some discussion.

2007-12-04 12:41:01
120.   JROBB
118, thank you Dark Horse. I couldnt say it better myself
2007-12-04 12:41:06
121.   Jon Weisman
truty = truth, but in a cutey way.
2007-12-04 12:41:13
122.   D Money
you are right, wasn't trying to justify it, just explain it.
2007-12-04 12:43:00
123.   Terry A
Those savvy Orioles would be wise to avoid this trash-can-moving Kemp troublemaker and focus instead on the underappreciated, below-the-radar Jason Repko as their next centerfielder.
2007-12-04 12:43:29
124.   D Money
HAHAHA...a cutey way....
never time i fakely express my love to a girl to i am gonna through in, "i swear it's the truty"
2007-12-04 12:43:46
125.   willhite
Since the rumored Bedard trade would create a rather large hole in our outfield, does Baltimore have any interesting outfielders that might come back to us?

Come to think of it, didn't Mora play the outfield at one time (not that I'm endorsing our getting him).

2007-12-04 12:44:11
126.   Disabled List
123 Seriously, the Dodgers need an inter-team media consultant.
2007-12-04 12:44:34
127.   D Money
...never time?

next time

2007-12-04 12:44:37
128.   underdog
121 Would typing "truthiness" be a WGA picketbreaker?
2007-12-04 12:44:45
129.   Sushirabbit
Bedard might also be a ploy to get Kuroda to committ on a 3 year. "Look, you're our first choice, but we can only do 3. Others are campaigning for Bedard, the window for you may only be open for a short time..." .
2007-12-04 12:45:17
130.   D Money
actually, that whole post was jacked up

i don't know what got into me.

2007-12-04 12:45:24
131.   Cornell Blue Fan
Id do it if we got Markakis back...he is a stud
2007-12-04 12:45:42
132.   underdog
125 Sure, we'll take Nick Markakis, thanks.
2007-12-04 12:45:44
133.   natepurcell
Don't give up pieces on the MLB team!


for Bedard + Bradford.

2007-12-04 12:46:06
134.   LogikReader

I also say "it's a no." Sorry Mr. Bedard, you're not going to Hollywood.

2007-12-04 12:46:31
135.   Disabled List
129 Doubtful. We need Kuroda more than he needs us. He can always play ball with his buddy Johjima in Seattle.
2007-12-04 12:47:01
136.   regfairfield
Considering some of these evaluations of Bedard is worth, I'd really want to know what you'd take in exchange for Penny.
2007-12-04 12:47:12
137.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 135

And the rumor is that Seattle's willing to give him four years.


2007-12-04 12:47:47
138.   Bleed Dodger Blue
129 Maybe, but I doubt it. Kuroda has plenty of other options to take a three-year deal with, and we aren't his first choice (presumably).
2007-12-04 12:48:00
139.   old dodger fan
This is my first "off-season" since I found DT. Is it like this every year?
2007-12-04 12:48:37
140.   CanuckDodger
Sure the Bedard thing is "just a rumor," and may be baseless, but my point still stands: I don't think Colletti is serious about "staying the course," and pro-youth Colletti comments like the ones in the local papers and in Baseball Digest Daily seem to me to be calculated to send a message to other teams (and agents) that they shouldn't try to take advantage of him because he isn't desperate, when "desperate" is exactly what I believe he is. Colletti wants to make splash, and he isn't going to do that by entrusting HIS team to "Logan's Heroes," the kids brought into the organization by the man Colletti is no doubt aware would like his job.
2007-12-04 12:48:43
141.   MC Safety
133 Bradford just got a huge contract last year too.
2007-12-04 12:48:56
142.   JRSarno
Okay, so let's say you make the Bedard trade, which I'm iffy on -- I think Kemp will be GREAT. But let's say they do that. We have a hole in the outfield. Then, they could seriously offer $ to Jones. So, by getting rid of Broxton/Kemp, we get Bedard/Jones on the backend. I'm 50/50 on that I think.... would make Colletti pay through the arse to Boras, which he already said he wouldn't, but you'd have to consider it more seriously if you're going to let Kemp go...
2007-12-04 12:48:56
143.   still bevens
132 I think the O's owner is Greek and he would let Markakis go over his dead body.
2007-12-04 12:49:03
144.   StolenMonkey86
125 - I wouldn't mind a lateral move involving Pierre and cash for Jay Payton
2007-12-04 12:50:11
145.   fanerman
139 Only since NedCo has been GM.
2007-12-04 12:50:19
146.   Sam DC
I believe Angelos has said that Markakis is untouchable.

And I don't think he meant in the Harijan sense.

2007-12-04 12:53:00
147.   Jon Weisman
140 - I think the truth will be somewhere in the middle. I never doubted that Colletti would stop looking for veteran help. Plus, all of his comments through today indicate that Garciaparra and Pierre are incumbents. That doesn't mean that no young players will have a role. Martin, Loney, Billingsley - I expect the Dodgers will be sticking with them.

What are you suggesting, really? That Colletti won't play any young players at all? That doesn't stand to reason, any more than the idea that he would never make a trade.

2007-12-04 12:53:46
148.   Jon Weisman
147 - "I never doubted that Colletti would stop looking for veteran help" should really read, "I never thought that Colletti would stop looking for veteran help."
2007-12-04 12:53:56
149.   Disabled List
139 Just wait. Self-flagellation week on DT is always a hoot.
2007-12-04 12:55:15
150.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Stop being so judicious Jon! You're spoiling the rampant speculation we do to pass our time in the Hot Stove season.

More seriously, though, what else are we going to do besides talk about what we think is going on in Ned's head? That's the problem with not having any real baseball to watch.


Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-04 12:56:54
151.   old dodger fan
Per the Nationals website*But according to a baseball source with knowledge of the situation, Washington is looking to trade Kearns and infielder Felipe Lopez for starting pitching. The Nationals have interest in Mets right-hander Mike Pelfrey and Twins right-hander Kevin Slowey.*

If they are looking for starting pitching why would they want to get rid of Bedard?

2007-12-04 12:57:35
152.   still bevens
I cant tell if this line from the most recent news article on is encouraging or not:

Although it has been widely speculated that Pierre would be moved to left field because of his vulnerable throwing arm, Colletti said that decision will be made by new manager Joe Torre.

Torre moved Damon out of CF, but Damon could actually hit so I'm not sure if the scenarios are the same here.

2007-12-04 12:57:58
153.   regfairfield
151 Because he's on the Orioles.
2007-12-04 12:59:12
154.   Sam DC
151 The rumor involves a deal with the Orioles for Bedard, not the Nationals.
2007-12-04 12:59:21
155.   old dodger fan
2007-12-04 12:59:48
156.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
BTW, does anyone know what exactly is Baltimore's plan this season. Everyone talks about how they're active, but active to do what, exactly? Do they actually expect to contend in that division? And how does giving up their best starter further that along?


2007-12-04 13:00:50
157.   Curtis Lowe
150 - We could talk about my pool league, This is the biggest week of the season for my team. We are out of 1st by 2 points because the lame captain did not turn our packets in on time 3 times but this week we have a chance to regain first in the final match of the season. We play the 1st place team who we have owned for the last 8 matches.

We need 3 out of 5 games to take first and the money. Only 1 major hiccup though, our star player hurt his wrist in a scuffle on saturday night. Pretty intense stuff.

2007-12-04 13:01:38
158.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Actually, thinking about it, a Bedard trade would be a good move for long-term rebuilding; both Broxton and Kemp will productive probably for years to come.


2007-12-04 13:02:28
159.   Andrew Shimmin
Bedard's big pay jump in 2006 was without arbitration? It doesn't look like he'd have had enough service time to be a super two, but that's still a little surprising. He really won't be FA till after 2009, right? Why did he take so, relatively, long to get to the big leagues? Why hasn't he thrown two hundred innings, ever? Injury problems?
2007-12-04 13:02:28
160.   regfairfield
I don't think the Orioles have had a plan since the mid 90s.
2007-12-04 13:03:52
161.   ToyCannon
Colleti should be kicking the tires on all these guys. Kick the tires hard. Looks like Kershaw is a deal breaker but Kemp isn't. If I'm going to trade Kemp I'd rather have Haren or Miggy. I don't quite trust the jump Bedard had from 2004-2006 to 2007 and being shut down in Sept is not exactly going to instill confidence. Plus only two years before we lose him or we give him a massive extension. I don't have enough confidence to trade Kemp for him but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
2007-12-04 13:04:24
162.   Jon Weisman
I have never told anyone to stop mentioning rumors. But when people get angry about them, that spoils my enjoyment of the Hot Stove League. And that should count for something here.
2007-12-04 13:04:40
163.   paranoidandroid
I simply need to admit that I don't know enough about Bedard. Being a National League fan, I just haven't seen him pitch much. While statistics are a good guide, I feel more comfortable with having seen the player perform before I can jump up and down and want him on my team as a savior.

I've seen Santana in action a few times on the tube. He is a legit number one, a true ace. Bedard is the real deal according to my friends who follow the Angels. In each case, Bedard and Johann, I would want to reach an extension before I give up a Matt Kemp-type player.

2007-12-04 13:04:50
164.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 160

Ouch, but true. I live not too far from Baltimore and have seen more Red Sox fans at Camden than Orioles fans for BoSox games. The Ravens really are the pre-eminent sports franchise now in Baltimore.


2007-12-04 13:05:24
165.   CanuckDodger
147 -- Colletti has already played young players. So course he is not going to "play no young players at all." It is a matter of proportionality. I want a young home-grown team with veterans sprinkled here and there, and I believe Colletti wants a veteran team with young players sprinkled here and there. Martin, Billingsley, and Loney are fixtures, but that's three guys on a 25 man roster.
2007-12-04 13:06:08
166.   ToyCannon
New GM, they will have a plan now. By 2009 only Markakis will be left from the active roster. They have to blow the whole thing up.
2007-12-04 13:06:19
167.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 162

That's a very fair point. Big difference between speculating and discussing rumors, and getting really, really mad about them.


2007-12-04 13:06:20
168.   bhsportsguy
Just keeping score, Baseball America puts out a top ten list every year and since 2005, they have done 4 top tens following the 2004-2007 seasons.

The Dodgers have had 23 different players occupying these lists with obviously some repeaters (LaRoche and Dewitt have been on all 4 lists).

Since Ned became GM, he has had at his disposable, all 23 players that have appeared on these lists and he has dealt 3 of them, Edwin Jackson, Chuck Tiffany and Joel Guzman. While Dionner Navarro was on the Yankee top ten list at one time, the same could be said for acquiring Andre Ethier who was on the A's top ten list when he got him.

The 23 players are divided into 3 groups, the aforementioned 3 have been dealt, 12 are on the 40 man roster and 8 are still protected.

12 Top Prospects on 40-man
Tony Abreu
Chad Billingsley
Jonathan Broxton
Chin-Lung Hu
Matt Kemp
Andy LaRoche
James Loney
Russell Martin
James McDonald
Jonathan Meloan
Greg Miller
Delwyn Young

8 Top Prospects Still Protected
Pedro Baez
Josh Bell
Ivan DeJesus, Jr.
Blake Dewitt
Scott Elbert
Clayton Kershaw
Preston Mattingly
Chris Withrow

2007-12-04 13:07:14
169.   uclasway
The market for Japanese free-agent outfielder Kosuke Fukudome, 30, is moving quickly, sources say, with the White Sox and Dodgers also showing significant interest.

Fukudome, a left-handed hitter could play center or an outfield corner for the Dodgers. In 2006, he batted .351 with 31 home runs and 104 RBIs, winning the Central League MVP award.

He had surgery on his right elbow in August and sat out the Japan Series, but has 192 homers and a .305 batting average over nine seasons with the Dragons, who won their first title in 53 years on Nov. 2.

Many have compared his defensive skills in the outfield to those of Seattle's Ichiro Suzuki.

I think rather than give Jones or Rowand 4 or more years, the Dodgers would prefer Fukudome for 3-4 years at 11-14 million.

I'm interested to see what it would take to get Mark Prior. I'd rather give up Ethier to get Prior than Kemp and Broxton to get Bedard

2007-12-04 13:11:46
170.   ToyCannon
Fukudome would be a possible solution if they traded Kemp.
2007-12-04 13:14:11
171.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-12-04 13:14:44
172.   Penarol1916
169. Ethier for Prior would be absolutely awful. Anything of value for Prior would be awful.
2007-12-04 13:15:04
173.   Andrew Shimmin
Bedard's BB-ref top comparables are not reassuring, nor are his 2006 PECOTA projections for the future.. BP's 2003 explanation of what happened to Bedard:

"Oriole medicine, part 2 (see David Segui for part 1). Bedard was, without a doubt, the best pitcher in the Oriole system at the start of 2002: left-handed, with an above-average fastball, a better curve, totally and completely unhittable by left-handed hitters (who were 2–37 against him in 2002). So the Orioles bring him to major league camp, and leave him there until mid-March, at which point he's thrown just 11 competitive innings. He starts the season on a 50-pitch limit, 25 behind the other Bowie starters. But no problem, he is just as dominating as ever, and even gets a quick little call-up to Baltimore. Still, he's tearing up the league, up until June 26. On that day, throwing a two-hitter, he went out for the eighth inning, even though he had already reached his pitch count. The manager thought it was just so much fun, and then pop goes the elbow. The MRI showed that he had a partially torn ligament. The Orioles' medical staff prescribed rest, hoping that the tear would heal on its own. Six weeks later, without taking another MRI to see if it had healed at all, they had Bedard resume throwing. The very next day, the pain was back, and Bedard was heading for surgery. . ."

2007-12-04 13:15:51
174.   Andrew Shimmin
173- I should say, he sounds like a True Dodger.
2007-12-04 13:17:24
175.   MC Safety
If Kemp is available for Bedard, Ned is basically saying Johan costs too much right? So far the only reason I can come up with when it comes to us only having "passing" interest in Johan is the money.
2007-12-04 13:20:59
176.   paranoidandroid
Some of you know that I have taught and coached at Littlerock High, where Delywn went to school. I know and like his family. I would want him to get a shot in the bigs at almost any price.

That being said, I have this uncontrollable man-love for Matt Kemp. I simply don't want to see him in another uniform even if it means Delwyn is handed a job. Kemp will come back to haunt us I think.

Kemp is the middle of the line-up power bat we've been seeking since Green stopped hitting for power.

The only thing we don't know is what has happened in the locker room and with team chemistry. He sat in AAA after hitting the wall and getting hurt in the first few weeks of the season. If he was good enough to make the team over Loney, and he played well enough for us to sit Eithier, why did he linger in AAA for a month after recovering?

The only way I would consider moving him if he is Milton Bradley-like.

2007-12-04 13:26:57
177.   D Money
i say sign him so we can hear Vin say his name.


2007-12-04 13:28:44
178.   D Money
a school teacher talking about man love....gotta love it.

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