Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Google Search
Dodger Thoughts

02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Meloan To Contend for Starting Role?
2007-12-05 16:23
by Jon Weisman

I believe this is the second time this has been mentioned this week, but Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise notes that Ned Colletti sees Jonathan Meloan as a potential starting pitcher in 2008, in Las Vegas if not Los Angeles.

Comments (244)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-05 16:29:24
1.   Gagne55
2007-12-05 16:30:34
2.   Eric Stephen
Who was it here that coined the "Mayday Meloan" nickname? Would that have more meaning as a starter?
2007-12-05 16:30:35
3.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
I like that rumor a lot more than any Matt Kemp plus others for XXXX star who has 1-2 years before free agency...
2007-12-05 16:31:07
4.   Eric Enders
I think Meloan is going to be an integral part of the bullpen, which appears to me to not have enough depth. I'm not opposed to making him a starter if we have enough other relievers and it turns out we need starting depth. But frankly, this sounds to me like just another excuse to keep him in the minors. Whatever pitching he does in 2008 should be with the Dodgers.
2007-12-05 16:33:39
5.   Eric Enders
Also, Diamond needs to study Meloan's minor league record more carefully. He's started a few games.
2007-12-05 16:34:32
6.   Jon Weisman
2 - But Mayday Malone was a reliever.
2007-12-05 16:34:42
7.   trainwreck
I hope Hull is in the bullpen from the beginning of the season.
2007-12-05 16:38:17
8.   blue22
Meloan's 2nd year at Arizona was sure interesting. He managed to go 10-0, while giving up 97 hits, 45 walks, and 17 homeruns in 92.2 innings. And he only K'd 77.

The Dodgers have done a fine job of coaching him, though. His walks have drastically reduced since coming out of college, while K's have gone through the roof.

2007-12-05 16:41:02
9.   trainwreck
I agree with Mr. Enders that Meloan is an important part of our bullpen. I know we would like one more starter, but we want an established stater not another young minor leaguer. We have enough minor league depth at that position right now with McDonald, Kershaw, Elbert, and Kuo/Guo.

If we add Kuroda then we definitely do not need to have Meloan trying to start in my eyes.

2007-12-05 16:43:13
10.   dzzrtRatt
Do I take that question to mean he will start in Las Vegas and not Los Angeles, or that he might start in Los Angeles?

Anyway, it's starting to look like Greg Brock snuck into the Winter Meetings, kidnapped Ned and put him on a freighter to China, and has been wearing a Ned disguise. Hence the "migraines." Greg/Ned is just worried about the makeup dripping.

Won't Mrs. Colletti be surprised!

2007-12-05 16:48:06
11.   paranoidandroid
I don't Meloan will be starting in LA. If they try him as a starter, it might not even be at Vegas, but back at Jacksonville.

I don't think this is going to happen. He has come up the ranks as a reliever. They floated this idea a bit with Broxton too.

I think Meloan will be closing in Vegas in 08 and will come up if there are injuries, a trade, a pennant push, or just a need before August.

Meloan showed after his first appearance last year that he wasn't ready for the pressure of the bigs just yet, I don't see him making the opening day roster, even with a good spring.

Maybe they are thinking he has Kuo disease and will do better taking the mound to start a game? I think they are different guys.

2007-12-05 16:50:33
12.   paranoidandroid
7 I see Hull as minor league insurance only. He's only in LA if we don't fill a void this spring, or there are injuries. I don't think he's the real deal, not from what I've seen.
2007-12-05 16:59:40
13.   Gr-ool
Perhaps they also want to prepare Meloan for a possible long relief/spot starting role.
2007-12-05 17:03:07
14.   ToyCannon
What is the real deal? He should have enough to be the 10th or 11th guy in the bullpen.
I like him.

Your actually judging Meloan on one game in the big leagues?

2007-12-05 17:03:23
15.   natepurcell
I like Meloan, but I don't see him as an impact starter.
2007-12-05 17:06:15
16.   Ken Noe
This may be more of a comment on Ned's lack of success in finding a starter in Nashville than anything else. Kuroda to the M's?
2007-12-05 17:07:13
17.   natepurcell

I think we are still in the thick of the Kuroda race. Meloan could just be a fall back option.

2007-12-05 17:07:25
18.   CanuckDodger
11 -- A difference between Broxton and Meloan is that Meloan WANTS to start, while the Bull didn't want to leave the bullpen once he got a taste of it. Also, Meloan has a four-pitch starter's repetoire. And Meloan's delivery didn't look too inappropriate for a starter when I saw him on TV in September, although he did pitch out of the stretch with nobody on base, like Kuo.

Bottom line, I wouldn't mind giving Meloan a shot a make the Dodgers' rotation in spring training.

2007-12-05 17:07:43
19.   underdog
Dodgers are talking to Kuroda next week. No deal will happen this week, it appears. They're considered one of the likely finalists for his services. It could take awhile for a decision.
2007-12-05 17:10:31
20.   CanuckDodger
15 -- But does Meloan have to be an IMPACT starter? We want a guy to throw into the #4 or #5 slot IF Schmidt isn't ready to start the season. That's not setting the bar too high.
2007-12-05 17:11:33
21.   MC Safety
Nice, I remember asking about this a while back but it was debunked rather quickly. Could this just be posturing in the papers to soften up a Bedard deal? Meloan has a nice live arm that could market well as a starter, no?
2007-12-05 17:12:18
22.   natepurcell

If Schmidt and Loaiza are healthy (along with Kuroda), we already have capable starters to slot in the back end of the rotation. If we could maximize Meloan's ability as a reliever, I would rather do that.

2007-12-05 17:13:04
23.   natepurcell

That could work.

Honestly, I believe Meloan is a prime trading chip for us and if he can be marketed as a SP, that ups his value even more.

2007-12-05 17:17:07
24.   Eric Stephen
19 Dodgers are talking to Kuroda next week

Time to scour the San Diego* area Del Taco restaurants! Side benefit: chili cheese fries.

*Kuroda's agent is San Diego based

2007-12-05 17:18:56
25.   natepurcell
from a phillies beat writer

The Phillies are out of the running for Japanese right-hander Hiroki Kuroda. A source tells me that Kuroda will visit Seattle, Arizona and Los Angeles next week. He doesn't appear interested in playing on the East Coast, and the latest offer made today by the Phillies wasn't as lucrative as Seattle's, which is believed to be climbing toward the $50 million mark.

50 mil is way too much for Kuroda.

2007-12-05 17:21:19
26.   thinkblue0

Kuroda is our best option, but you're right, that's just too much.

If that falls through, our best bet is to go with in house options. Of course I'm assuming Schmidt will be well enough to pitch at least somewhat effectively. Also, for all we know Kershaw could win a spot in the rotation. Would a Schmidt, Penny, Lowe, Bills, Kershaw/Loaiza be the worst thing in the world? I'd certainly take that over giving Lohse millions...

2007-12-05 17:21:29
27.   CanuckDodger
12 -- I saw Hull in a spring training game, and I agree he doesn't LOOK impressive. But you know what? Everywhere he goes, he gets outs. Every year we marvel at the bullpens put together by the Padres, and they seem to do it with the Eric Hull's of the world. Unimpressive-looking pitchers with unimpressive stuff, but they just get outs. Hull thrived in Vegas and has nothing left to prove there, and he did just fine in his short time in L.A. Why not trust him? A team's commitment to its farm can't be measured merely by what it does with its "star" prospects; a sound organization gets production out of its farm's "role players" too. Paul Lo Duca was like that. He was never a "prospect" in his life.
2007-12-05 17:22:31
28.   MC Safety
25 When you consider what else is out there is it that bad?
2007-12-05 17:23:51
29.   oshea2002
$50K for Kuroda is ridiculous, isn't that similar to Dice K's actual deal (minus the fee)?
2007-12-05 17:24:13
30.   thinkblue0

Well that's the point. There really aren't many other options out there. If Kuroda is the best option and he's too pricey, then you just have to go with what you have. The last thing I'd want to see is Ned throw millions in a panic move at someone like Lohse or Silva. Heck, if those are our only options I'd rather see Houlton in the rotation.

2007-12-05 17:25:03
31.   natepurcell

The thing is, he is 32 so how much realistically does he have left in him? I hope Colleti would his 3yr speciality contract.

I wouldn't be opposed to 3yrs 39 mil. Anything more than that is really pushing it.

2007-12-05 17:25:32
32.   regfairfield
28 He's not that much better than Estaban Loaiza. In the future, he could easily be pulling in 12 million while being the seventh or eighth best option to start.
2007-12-05 17:31:11
33.   MC Safety
32 Last I checked Loaiza doesnt throw in the mid nineties, in fact he doesnt even throw ninety.

I am not advocating signing Kuroda, but if you spend 50 million on a starter he's the best bet to get you the most for your money, imo.

2007-12-05 17:35:30
34.   CanuckDodger
Kuroda was only interesting to me insofar as I hoped his acquisition would keep us from making a dumb trade for a starter, but I have maintained all along that we don't NEED to bring in another starter. There doesn't seem to be any reason to think that Schmidt won't be healthy, so we have our five starters right there. And if he isn't ready, we have Kuo, Stults, Houlton and now, it seems, Meloan. NINE guys. Your starting pitching depth has to be your Triple A types, because you can't store extras on the 25-man roster.
2007-12-05 17:37:54
35.   regfairfield
32 He had a hard time striking out Japanese players so it couldn't have helped him that much.
2007-12-05 17:38:15
36.   ToyCannon
Rotation - Penny, Chad, Lowe, Loaiza, Schmidt
Insurance - Kuo, DJ Houlton, Stults, Hendrickson
KIW - McDonald, Orenduff, Elbert, Kershaw
Bullpen - Saito, Broxton, Beimel, Proctor, Brazoban, + whoever doesn't make the rotation.
KIW - Hull, Meloan,Troncoso, Wade
Wouldn't surprise me to see Orenduff and Elbert get some time in the bullpen in 2008.

Looks okay to me. It is the offense I'm worried about not the pitching. Come July we have plenty of help from the KIW to call upon. Or we have plenty of chips to trade.

2007-12-05 17:44:00
37.   thinkblue0

If Loney, Kemp, and Eithier are allowed a full year to actually play with some probably improvement from Furcal then our offense may not be that big of a problem.

But I do see what you're saying....maybe if we all dream of replacing Pierre with Jones at the same time it'll actually happen!

2007-12-05 17:44:46
38.   jystakes
I'm scared of Kuroda being a reincarnation of Kaz Ishii.
2007-12-05 17:47:02
39.   underdog
I sort of agree with you guys, and sort of disagree. I think McDonald and Kershaw in particular should not only eventually be good, but could be good in the majors soon, even very soon. In that sense, and in the hope that Schmidt comes back healthy and valuable, I think the Dodgers are okay with pitching. However, I don't blame them for looking for another starter. Last year was painful, and I don't have much faith in Kuo coming back, nor in Stults being much use, nor in Houlton (though I think he deserves a shot), and don't think Hendy will be back at all. And even though I think Loiaza will give the team some quality starts, he will also give the team some awful starts. But I think our bullpen will be fine, and if things go as well as hoped, the starters should be fine, too. But we know how that goes. So, yes, I agree, 50mil is too much for Kuroda. But I don't mind them trying for him, or another starter.
2007-12-05 17:58:15
40.   thinkblue0

Can we get a vote on a new DodgerThoughts rule to never speak that name again? ;)

2007-12-05 18:03:04
41.   Bluebleeder87

Exactly how I feel. I just don't see him as a starter.

2007-12-05 18:05:50
42.   regfairfield
38 The only thing they have in common is that they're both Japanese. Ishii had no control even in Japan.
2007-12-05 18:13:30
43.   jystakes
42 I hope you're right. I only mention Kaz because, like Kaz, he is a relatively unknown (to us) japanese pitcher who posted above average numbers in japan (like Kaz) and is hitting the MLB market at a time when the Dodgers really need another starter. I don't want to pay him $50 mill just to end up having to dump him on the Mets in two years for Endy Chavez. I think he will be better because of the control issue, and we should definitely pursue him, but not at any price.
2007-12-05 18:17:53
44.   regfairfield
43 I definitely agree with that. I see him maybe being decent in his first year then crumbling after that.

2004 Jeff Weaver is a good statistical comparison, except Kuroda is older and hasn't actually faced big league competition.

2007-12-05 18:32:21
45.   Sub4Era
What kind of package do you think it would take to get Dunn?
2007-12-05 18:34:31
46.   regfairfield
45 He got a no trade clause when the team activated his option.
2007-12-05 18:40:01
47.   KG16
I've got the Laker game on TV and the Matrix Reloaded on my computer. I looked up in the middle of the weapons fight scene to see Kobe on the floor clutching his shoulder. I suddenly got that sinking feeling that the Lakers' season is over. That would make this a really bad winter.

Though the preview of The Bucket List looks promising. As does PS I Love You (but I read the book, so I'm already disappointed by the changes).

2007-12-05 18:41:44
48.   Ken Noe
Given Lowe's about-to-end contract and Loaiza's recent record of futilty, Kuroda doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me. Like Canuck, I primarily like the idea of signing him as a way to block a bad trade, but that aside he looks like a viable fourth starter to me, assuming a reasonable (for this market) contract.
2007-12-05 18:45:10
49.   Ken Arneson
33 Loaiza can get it up to 93 when he's healthy. In the two years he was with Oakland, he was only healthy enough to do that for about a month and a half, though.
2007-12-05 18:47:13
50.   Sub4Era
45 you don't think he would wave it to play in LA? I would personally think Southern California compared to Cincy wouldn't be a second thought. Then again im not knowledgeable about his family life etc.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-05 18:48:36
51.   Sub4Era
50 was supposed to be 46 ... although I've been known to talk to myself on occasion.
2007-12-05 18:50:29
52.   KG16
50 - Dunn plays 81 games a year in a bang box. He gets a bunch of day games at Wrigley, and games at Pittsburg, Milwalkee, and Houston. Playing 120 games, or so, in those stadiums has to help his homerun total more than playing the same amount of games in the stadiums of the NL West. Not to mention the quality of pitching in the divisions.

I'm not a big believer in Dunn outside of Cincy, but that's just me.

2007-12-05 18:52:42
53.   MC Safety
49 I have no problem with Loaiza if he's sitting at 93 but I remember seeing 86-88 consistant, with that little droopy slider thing he has at like 80-84. He can move both in and out but thats about the gist of Loaiza isnt it?
2007-12-05 18:53:39
54.   underdog
47 Kobe's going to be fine, sounds like. You can exhale. The bench appears to be doing okay without him, too.

Adam Dunn's been the subject of some debate here in the past (all through the season) and I'm on the side of the fence that worries about his defense, a lot. And we don't need him at first. So unless we can get the NL to instill a DH, I don't see a fit for him. (Though, I'd take him in exchange for Pierre out there in left, sure.)

2007-12-05 18:54:57
55.   thinkblue0

I find it hard to believe that Dunn would hit less than 35 HR no matter where he played.

2007-12-05 18:59:52
56.   MC Safety
I hear Kuroda has 4 pitches inclding a sinker/forkball type pitch, a screwball type pitch like Matsuzaka, and a slider to go with a mid nineties fastball. How big of an influence does the ball differance have on the pitches?
2007-12-05 19:02:52
57.   El Lay Dave
I can not imagine Ned Colletti having an interest in Adam Dunn, nor relishing defending him to the Plaschke-Simers Syndrome sufferers.

Dunn's career OPS+, which has a ballpark factor term is 130. His four seasons, oldest to current: 146, 141, 114, 136. But I agree with underdog about his defense.

2007-12-05 19:04:28
58.   GoBears
I think this has been said here before (possibly even by me) but Dunn is the picture-boy of a Three True Outcome hitter. If anyone is going to undervalue him, it's Ned Colletti.
2007-12-05 19:07:04
59.   regfairfield
Thing is that the scouting reports I've seen are a lot less optimistic on Kuroda than those, so I'm not sure who to believe.
2007-12-05 19:10:31
60.   Dodgers49
From previous thread:

288. Since LA doesn't have an NFL team, I defaulted to the Pittsburgh Steelers, my only exception.

I did the same thing. And the New England Patriots should be afraid. They should be very afraid. :-)

2007-12-05 19:19:15
61.   dzzrtRatt
Rolen's trade value undermined by LaRussa comments:

A sample:

As for Rolen's desire to be traded, La Russa said, "The whole idea isn't to please Scott. It's to take care of the St. Louis Cardinals. I don't understand why he can be down on the Cardinals. I don't understand why he can be down on me, to be honest.

"The idea is to accommodate the St. Louis Cardinals, our team, our responsibility to our players and to the competition. So, no, I don't want to accomodate Scott.

GMs should approach the Cardinals with a, "If we help you with your Rolen problem, what can you do for us?"

2007-12-05 19:19:47
62.   rockmrete
To me Koruda is this years' Pierre. Alot of money, and time for a somewhat known mediocracy. Better to not spend that money just yet, wait for a pitcher, or pos. player that would really make a differance.
2007-12-05 19:22:57
63.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 58

It's my impression that by sabermetric measures, Dunn's OF defense is so awful it really does kill much of his offensive value. And it's not as if we have room for him at 1B.


2007-12-05 19:23:23
64.   trainwreck
"How can someone not like me. I'm Tony La Russa, damnit!!!"
2007-12-05 19:23:41
65.   regfairfield
61 Who would actually want to help them? A Pierre for Rolen swap seems pretty reasonable to me.
2007-12-05 19:25:34
66.   trainwreck
Saying Pierre was somewhat known mediocrity is giving him too much credit.
2007-12-05 19:27:57
67.   D4P
Would you rather have:

1. Rolen at 3rd for Dodgers, Pierre with Cardinals, LaRoche with DRays, crappy DRays reliever with Dodgers

2. Pierre with Dodgers, LaRoche at 3rd for Dodgers

2007-12-05 19:29:48
68.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 66

And the difficulty of translating Japanese performance to the majors is another wildcard. I mean, did anyone expect Saito to be as good as he's been? Unfortunately, on the flip side, see what happened to Igawa.


2007-12-05 19:34:52
69.   still bevens
Doesn't LaRoche still have options? Could we theoretically dump Pierre on StL and take Rolen, let Rolen bounce back and put up decent numbers and then trade him away at the deadline and ultimately bring up LaRoche?
2007-12-05 19:35:07
70.   CanuckDodger
67 -- Of course I'll take Pierre in CF and LaRoche at 3B, rather than Rolen at 3B and NOBODY in CF. It's fine to hate Pierre, but lets not permit it to drive us to insanity.
2007-12-05 19:36:00
71.   Kingmans Performance
Does Kobe Bryant have separated shoulder?

What did I miss?

2007-12-05 19:36:14
72.   El Lay Dave
58 48.93% of Dunn's career PAs have resulted in one of the three true outcomes.
2007-12-05 19:37:59
73.   Joe Pierre
Meloan will start in 2008, either in LA or Los Vegas. I think it all depends how he does and how much the Dodgers need him. I wish the kid luck, but I hope the Dodgers will not really need him, that bad.
2007-12-05 19:42:17
74.   Bluebleeder87

if the Dodgers were an AL team I wouldn't mind having him around BUT he plays in the NL & last I seen he plays very VERY poor defense.

2007-12-05 19:42:51
75.   El Lay Dave
5 Diamond wrote that Meloan hasn't started "full-time" since college, which is true. His highest start/appearances ratio in the minors in a season is 37.5%.
2007-12-05 19:43:11
76.   ToyCannon
This guy reads Dodger Thoughts.
2007-12-05 19:43:12
77.   underdog
71 Sounds like a deep bruise. He landed on it hard, sat out for awhile, then came back in. Says he'll be fine, just very sore.
2007-12-05 19:44:37
78.   Peanuts in My Shoes
Speaking of La Russa, his sobriety test is great. Nails the alphabet.

2007-12-05 19:44:43
79.   underdog
76 Bless you, Paul Oberjuerge.
2007-12-05 19:47:06
80.   Bluebleeder87

I imagined Dunn with 2 left feet/legs reading your piece.

2007-12-05 19:47:36
81.   Kingmans Performance
71 See 54 -a.


2007-12-05 19:52:30
82.   jasonungar07

Rays vice president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman told reporters Wednesday that he had "productive conversation" with several teams and there is a "50-50" chance he will make a trade before leaving town.

"We've had talks that are mature enough to make me think that we could do something before we left," Friedman said.

Luis Gonzalez told that he's spoken with the Rays. The Tampa native has expressed interest in the past about playing for the Rays.

The Rays have also been linked in trade rumors with Andre Ethier of the Dodgers and Laynce Nix of the Brewers.

2007-12-05 19:54:07
83.   paranoidandroid
14 Toy Cannon:

Meloan: I didn't and wouldn't judge Meloan on one game. His first shot in the bigs he got the side out and then walked the bases full and got out of it. He lost his confidence after that and gave up a bumch of hits and runs if I recall. I think he gave up at least one run in every appearance after that and we never used him in a pressure situation after that one game.

If you recall, a lot of us, myself included, wanted him to get called up when we were still in it. I think he showed he wasn't quite ready for the jump from AA just yet.

He reminds me of Bills when he got his first taste. Might be intimidated, might have butterflies, maybe gives the hitters too much credit, who knows. Young guys sometimes take some time to get comfortable at the major league level.

My only point is he isn't ready to be counted on for sure in 08, he needs some more seasoning. That doesn't follow that I'm judging him or giving up on him. Neither is true, I just think he is more of a work in progress than an arm for 08 just yet.

Hull: If he gets outs, he can stick around. We haven't been convinced of him enough to pencil him in anywhere for 08 yet as far as I can tell. That can change in the spring, or into the season. I don't think we are counting him as a blue chip.

2007-12-05 19:56:45
84.   trainwreck
Why are the names Reyes and Wheeler popping into my head?
2007-12-05 20:02:52
85.   paranoidandroid
I'd take Carl Crawford straight up for Andre E
2007-12-05 20:03:14
86.   jasonungar07
Not Kazmir? No, not thinking that? Ok.
2007-12-05 20:03:58
87.   oshea2002
This would take the cake - and I predicted this to a friend today too. Per espn blog.

10:49 p.m., from Enrique Rojas
• The Dodgers have interest in third baseman Pedro Feliz, who are still trying to find a power hitter. Feliz, 32, has hit at least 20 home runs in each of the last four seasons. Just one Dodgers hitter (Jeff Kent) belted 20 home runs in 2007.

2007-12-05 20:04:25
88.   El Lay Dave
82 The Griddle links to a Yahoo! Sports reports of a Brewers signing that also includes this line:

To make room on the 40-man roster, the Brewers designated outfielder Laynce Nix for assignment.

Doesn't sound like the Rays would have to send much.

2007-12-05 20:05:41
89.   bigcpa
87 Do not post such evil things.
2007-12-05 20:06:26
90.   trainwreck
That's not even funny to see in print as a rumor.
2007-12-05 20:07:04
91.   CanuckDodger
83 -- But we didn't send Billingsley back to Triple A despite his "jitter,s" or whatever it was that he had in 2006 that he seemed to overcome in 2007. I am not sure Meloan needs more "seasoning" in the minors, but neither am I saying pencil him into the MLB rotation or the bullpen right now. Let him compete for a job (with the other young guys) in the spring and we'll see what happens, and let's "stretch him out" innings-wise, just in case he really has what it takes to start.
2007-12-05 20:10:28
92.   bigcpa
It is unthinkable that a RH corner hitter can put up a sub .300 OBP vs LHP's and make millions doing it. Even a 37 yr old Vinny Castilla could beat up on lefties.
2007-12-05 20:10:52
93.   Xeifrank
Bill James has Dunn hitting 43 home runs in 566 at bats for 2008. In a neutral park that gets his total down to 37 and adjust that down to 35 in San Diego.
vr, Xei
2007-12-05 20:13:23
94.   oshea2002
I only posted it because I was telling my Cardinals friend today that the only move worse then getting Rolen and either dealing/blocking LaRoche would be if we went out and signed Pedro Feliz - it sounds like a Ned move to me.
2007-12-05 20:14:29
95.   ToyCannon
I still think these are writers making up matches for teams they feel have weaknesses. Until Ned proves me wrong, which could be anyday, I can't see him bringing in Rolen(expensive and health issues), Felix(expensive), Glaus(expensive and health issues) with Laroche and Nomar on the payroll. The media may not get it but I expect Andy LaRoche is coveted in baseball. If Andy Marte was worth Edgar Renteria and then worth a Coco Crisp coming off a solid offensive season, Andy LaRoche has alot of value in todays market and it ain't no secondary relief pitcher. Then again I never expected Ned to trade Betemit for a secondary relief pitcher so he could easily prove me wrong.
2007-12-05 20:16:15
96.   Jon Weisman
83 - "My only point is he isn't ready to be counted on for sure in 08, he needs some more seasoning. "

The first part of that seems open-ended; the second part of it seems definitive. That's what's confusing. You seem to have decided he's not ready, which is no more valid than people deciding that he is.

Six months after his first major-league appearance, I personally think the jitters are likely to diminish greatly.

2007-12-05 20:16:30
97.   oshea2002
Would you guys do three years for Jones?
2007-12-05 20:17:26
98.   paranoidandroid
I unfortunately totally agree that Ned could sign Felix. Another Giant reject comes to town? Could really happen. We need a right handed pinch hitter if we don't bench Nomar. We seem to favor Abreu's left side.
2007-12-05 20:18:12
99.   bigcpa
I'm sorry, but even kicking the tires on Feliz is an act of total ignorance. Late inning defensive specialists aside- how can any winning team employ a .288 career OBP hitter, EVER?
2007-12-05 20:24:49
100.   MJW101
Ned does not believe in OBP.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-05 20:26:36
101.   El Lay Dave
99 You mean like the 2002 Giants? ;)
2007-12-05 20:27:37
102.   Bluebleeder87
MLB Trade Rumors has this [ ] Lo duca to the Jays.
2007-12-05 20:29:07
103.   ToyCannon
Just in case here is the injury report on Rolen:

How Rolen managed to post almost 400 at-bats this season is a testament to his mental toughness to play through injuries. It turns out that he has a frozen left shoulder that needs surgery, and it was the main reason why he failed to get the double-digit home run totals for the second time in three years. This is the second significant surgery involving Rolen's shoulder in the past three years, and one has to wonder what that means for his future offensively

I will stay away from Dodger Thoughts for a week if Ned signs Feliz to be our starting 3rd baseman. I don't want to hear the sound of popping brain cells.

2007-12-05 20:29:29
104.   El Lay Dave
8:55 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
• Phillies GM Pat Gillick conceded the obvious and told local reporters that the team's chances of re-signing center fielder Aaron Rowand are a "long shot." The Phillies love Rowand's grit and presence in the clubhouse, but some people in the organization think he might have to move from center field to left in a year or two, and 25 homers and 80 RBIs wouldn't be anything special for a corner man. And where Gillick is concerned, the shorter the contract, the better. It remains to be seen if Rowand and his agent, Craig Landis, can get five years from another club.

25 and 80? Rowand's done it exactly once, last year. How many of those has he got in him?

2007-12-05 20:29:41
105.   Bumsrap
I think White has always believed Meloan was a starter and a very good one at that.
2007-12-05 20:31:18
106.   paranoidandroid
96 I think it is more than jitters that we are concerned about. It is building confidence and putting a guy into a situation where he can succeed and then build on that success. Not many seem to take the ball at a young age and get guys out consistently in late inning pressure situations. Perhaps he has the ability to start and that would lead to more success. It was the opposite for Bills, the time in the pen helped him settle down as a starter at this level.

I might have been defensive as Phil asked if I was judging him on one game. While I can shoot from the hip to try to get a chuckle, I'm not that short sighted as a fan of the game to think one performance a player makes.

Defensive or not, I do not think we are counting on him in 08 at this point, either in the pen or starting. He'd be a very pleasant surprise if he proved ready to go in April. We'd also need a spot for him.

As always, I can be wrong. I don't mind being wrong. In this case, if he's a go-to guy in 08, I'll happily be wrong and buy a round after home game one of the NLCS.

2007-12-05 20:32:01
107.   jasonungar07
I do wish someone would pass Ned the all time OPS list and point out that among the top 10 the only ones not in the HOF are Manny, Puljos and Bonds. So it just might be meaningful and not all that complicated. It seems like other than Miggy anyone Ned looks at at least via rumors and guys he has already brought in have low OPS.
2007-12-05 20:33:25
108.   El Lay Dave
Meloan pitched 74 innings last season, majors and minors combined. What's the rule of thumb for stretching out young pitchers, 30% increase max? That would 96+ innings. So how many starts can he realistically make next season?
2007-12-05 20:33:41
109.   dzzrtRatt
100 Ned does not believe in OBP.

That's right. He prefers players who get on base a lot, like Pierre.

2007-12-05 20:34:00
110.   paranoidandroid
97 Depends on the price and if we are sticking with Pierre and Ethier for the long haul.

If it means moving Kemp, I say no. If it means moving Pierre or Ethier, I think so.

Rumors are we offered three and they want five. He might get four somewhere. I'm not sure we'd go four.

His power was around last year when he didn't strike out.

2007-12-05 20:39:20
111.   paranoidandroid
And I thought the Clippers looked lost last night.

Ugly half.

2007-12-05 20:42:25
112.   El Lay Dave
97 Three years are his age 31-33 seasons. Only if it means sitting/getting rid of Pierre. Not if it means moving Pierre to LF and trading Ethier or Kemp.
2007-12-05 20:47:14
113.   El Lay Dave
New Gurnick:

"Not really," Colletti said. "I don't want to get into [specifics]. We [the Dodgers and Andruw Jones] haven't got a deal, if we're inching or running toward each other." Yet the negotiations have continued throughout the Winter Meetings, with indications that Jones is warming to the idea of a two- or three-year contract that would allow him to rehabilitate his stats in time for another bite at the free-agent apple while still in his prime.

Colletti indicated that no third-base acquisition appeared imminent, even with the apparent availability of Detroit's Brandon Inge after the Miguel Cabrera trade. Free agent Tadahito Iguchi is willing to move from second base to third if the Dodgers want him.

Colletti also said that he will not spend significant salary on veteran relievers, because the Dodgers have as many as a half-dozen young pitchers who could pitch in the Major Leagues next year -- Clayton Kershaw, John Meloan, James McDonald, Scott Elbert, Ramon Troncoso and Greg Miller.

Colletti said that the club would exercise some caution with Kershaw.... But he was not worried about rushing him. "Because of his blend of ability and makeup, his birthdate is not as much of a concern," he said.

2007-12-05 20:48:59
114.   StolenMonkey86
113 - I have to say, it looks like not a lot is going on at the Winter Meetings and Gurnick had to make it sound like there was
2007-12-05 20:56:45
115.   Sam DC
So, Brock, did you surf today?

Did anyone surf today?

2007-12-05 20:57:52
116.   StolenMonkey86
Sam, did you go sledding today?
2007-12-05 21:00:53
117.   dzzrtRatt
Boy, did someone sell Ned on the Dodger farm system! Suddenly, they can do everything. Pitch. Play third base. Get hits. Who knows what else they can do?

It's like he just bought a Mac.

2007-12-05 21:02:01
118.   Sam DC
116 :)
2007-12-05 21:07:41
119.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 114

Didn't Jackson say in his blog that the meetings were really, really boring?


2007-12-05 21:10:06
120.   Jon Weisman
119 - I'm guessing he thinks that most years.
2007-12-05 21:12:04
121.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 120

I for one appreciate the honesty, as opposed to the way ESPN has to hype everything. They made the Santana deal sound like it was all but done, but now it's just dribbled away...


2007-12-05 21:17:18
122.   underdog
UCSB's basketball team is now 8-1 after beating Pepperdine tonight.
2007-12-05 21:24:09
123.   Bluebleeder87
If Meloan becomes a starter he's gonna suffer greatly because 1) he's gonna give up a tone of home runs (fastball will only peak at 90,91 & be steady at 88-90) his lazer straight fastball needs to sit at 93-94 for it to be affective, in my opinion he simply expands WAY to much energy to be an affective starter. my grammar ain't good & my spelling really is bad but one thing I do trust is my baseball instincts, so that's my 2 cents & I'm sticking with it.

ps we only saw him a few times but I just feel he'd best serve the Dodgers as a reliever, I'm with NatePurcel on this one (plus he saw him pitch live at Arizona)

2007-12-05 21:28:39
124.   Bluebleeder87
I think NedCo watching a lot of young teams make it to the playoffs makes him feel comfortable sticking with the kids cause last year he didn't seem all that sold on them. I have to admit I'm liking Ned a lot more reading that stuff.
2007-12-05 21:30:08
125.   paranoidandroid
Not that it would excite too many of you, but Radiohead tix for the Amsterdam show in July just went on sale. They'll be gone in minutes.

The London shows already sold out. They'll be in the US in May. No dates or venues announced yet.

I love Europe. Anybody else in for a trip to Holland?

2007-12-05 21:32:44
126.   Bluebleeder87

I here there a great live band but I'm not really a fan of theres, wow your going all the way to Holland.

2007-12-05 21:36:24
127.   MC Safety
125 I was just there in August, and am seriously thinking of going back with a friend in April.
2007-12-05 21:38:57
128.   Vishal
125 i could make my very own
2007-12-05 21:41:51
129.   sincitydodger
Dodgers agree to 2 year deal with Andruw Jones on the LA Times Site
2007-12-05 21:44:17
130.   silverwidow
2007-12-05 21:44:33
131.   Bluebleeder87

I'm traying to play it cool [can't hold it much longer) WHOO HOO!!!!!

2007-12-05 21:46:04
132.   Lexinthedena
2 year deal...nice....NOW DON"T TRADE KEMP!!!!
2007-12-05 21:46:11
133.   silverwidow
This is so incredible!!! 2 years/$36 million, what a steal.
2007-12-05 21:46:16
134.   Bluebleeder87
For anybody living under a rock, here are A.Jones #'s [ ]
2007-12-05 21:46:22
135.   paranoidandroid
Wow, it's true. We got Andruw. I think I like it for two years. Better than five years of Slappy.
2007-12-05 21:46:27
136.   Eric Stephen
Love it. Colletti's patented short contract gets it done again.
2007-12-05 21:47:01
137.   Bluebleeder87
So what happens to Pierre & what happens to Kemp as well, it just opens up more questions!?
2007-12-05 21:47:08
138.   paranoidandroid
Yes, do not trade KEMP! Now Ethier, he's okay to shop around. Pierre even better.
2007-12-05 21:47:49
139.   Jason in Canada
Andruw is a Dodger. Wow.
2007-12-05 21:49:01
140.   Bluebleeder87

if anything, he's got plenty to prove so I'm hoping for a nice bounce back year from him.

2007-12-05 21:49:08
141.   Eric Stephen
Shoot first. Ask questions later.

I prefer to stay blissfully ignorant of the other shoe that could drop any day now.

2007-12-05 21:50:01
142.   Lexinthedena
Trade Pierre for some pine tar and you've got an outfield of Ethier/Jones/Kemp...potenitally the best OF in the NL....
2007-12-05 21:52:19
143.   Eric Stephen
Odalis. Furcal. Betemit. Schmidt (via two other teams). Now Andruw.

The Braves are becoming the Kansas City Athletics to our 1950s Yankees! :)

2007-12-05 21:52:43
144.   Jason in Canada
I am waiting for a new picture puzzle on the griddle. This time I think I might be able to figure it out.
2007-12-05 21:53:23
145.   Lexinthedena
2 years 36 mil. according to Gary Miller...
2007-12-05 21:55:41
146.   El Lay Dave
145 Tony Jackson also reporting it.

2007-12-05 21:55:49
147.   paranoidandroid
143 There were a few ex-Dodgers on that Boston team this year, eh?
2007-12-05 21:56:46
148.   underdog
141 I'm with Eric. I will not worry about (please trade Pierre) the things I have no control (please trade Pierre) over but am glad about this piece of news.

Tomorrow's news: Jeff Kent announces his return for '08.

2007-12-05 21:57:16
149.   trainwreck
I am happy, but now very paranoid.
2007-12-05 21:57:27
150.   Bluebleeder87
I'm looking else were & the Times is the only one going with this, could some one at the Times be pulling our chain...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-05 21:58:03
151.   El Lay Dave
150 See 146
2007-12-05 21:58:59
152.   Lexinthedena
Wow.....can't imagine Andruw in Dodger Blue....this could be really fun...
2007-12-05 21:59:15
153.   paranoidandroid
As long as it isn't Kemp.

Uh.. I'm paranoid too senior trainwreck. Just let us keep Kemp.

2007-12-05 22:00:40
154.   the2pin
I like it. Is Pierre really moving to left? Assuming Pierre is going to be in left, what do we do with Ethier/Kemp now?
2007-12-05 22:00:51
155.   Eric Stephen
Speaking of pleasant surprises, the Lakers won tonight over Denver 111-107, despite Iverson's 51 points (only 2 in the 4th). More importantly they broke Lawler's Law, as Denver was the first to 100 points.
2007-12-05 22:00:53
156.   CajunDodger
150 is also reporting the signing, so we are probably safe...

Been working 14 hour days, so I am behind on the chatter, but HALLELEUJAH!!! WOO HOO

If Slappy has to be in the outfield, here's hoping that Ethier/Young can bring in a solid starter.

2007-12-05 22:00:53
157.   Bluebleeder87
Man, I can't wait to watch him rome CF for us us.
2007-12-05 22:01:00
158.   Brian Y is reporting it also.
2007-12-05 22:01:13
159.   El Lay Dave
The Dodgers do not have OF depth. Would Ned be ok with his OFs being Pierre, Jones, Ethier, Repko, and Young?
2007-12-05 22:01:40
160.   paranoidandroid
If no other big moves, I suspect we might see:


I'd prefer to see:


2007-12-05 22:02:23
161.   Lexinthedena
I hope someone else gets Bedard...Baltimore is selling high....
2007-12-05 22:02:32
162.   Kingmans Performance
Can someone please post the probable Dodger Batting order for '08 now?


2007-12-05 22:03:19
163.   Kingmans Performance
160 very good!
2007-12-05 22:04:26
164.   paranoidandroid
159 I hope he sees what you see, we really want to keep Kemp.

Keep Kemp and shop Pierre if possible, Ethier if not. Dang, I've posted that a few times. I'll lay off it now.

Would trading Pierre for Rolen be considered by the Cards? I hope so.

2007-12-05 22:06:08
165.   dzzrtRatt
I just don't know where Ned's head is at on Pierre. It might be up to Torre. I fear he trades Kemp. I pray he trades Juan. I think he'll either split the difference and trade Ethier or just sort it out in Spring Training (when you can still make trades.)

I'm good so long as Kemp doesn't leave for anything less than Santana or Bedard.

2007-12-05 22:06:24
166.   paranoidandroid
Speaking of selling high, it might be a good time to see what Penny would bring us in return. He's never been better and he has two years left on his contract (with the option). He'll want an extension, he'll cost a lot to keep around. He might have peaked last year.
2007-12-05 22:06:28
167.   MMSMikey
so this means ethier or kemp is guaranteed to get traded, right?
2007-12-05 22:06:44
168.   JRSarno
4 true OF starters. Either let Torre inherit the dilemma, or "try" to shop Pierre for pitching. Touch Kemp at this point, and I think we'd all be really pissed....
2007-12-05 22:07:03
169.   Jason in Canada
I'm shocked that Eli didn't catch wind of this over at MLB Rumors. After all he is so close with Todd Verducci.
2007-12-05 22:07:04
170.   El Lay Dave
160 Would you not prefer to see Ethier instead of Pierre?
2007-12-05 22:07:56
171.   JRSarno
Kudos 170. Please don't touch Ethier or Kemp.
2007-12-05 22:08:42
172.   paranoidandroid
Is Pierre really tradeable? Unless you get a baggage salary in return, we'd eat a huge part of his contract.

I fear he's ours for four more years. At least he can do less damage in left field. Maybe if we play softball rules and add a fourth outfielder he'd make a bit more sense.

Enough on him. I think you're right about Ethier going before Pierre.

2007-12-05 22:09:47
173.   El Lay Dave
167 There are no guarantees.
2007-12-05 22:09:54
174.   Bluebleeder87
guys guys, Ned Colletti hired a special assistant to help Kemp on his running skills, I really doubt the Dodgers will trade Kemp, I really do.
2007-12-05 22:10:05
175.   Scanman33
How does Jones's signing fit into the Quest for Character credo thrown down after the Bradley situation/Depo firing?
2007-12-05 22:10:24
176.   Eric Stephen
What will Esteban Loaiza receive in exchange for giving up #25 to Andruw?
2007-12-05 22:10:57
177.   paranoidandroid
170 Oh yes! I would prefer to see Ethier over Pierre. I'd prefer to see Eeyore over Pierre. However, Slappy started 161 games and played in 162. Do we really think that Pierre will sit or get moved?

I accept the reality and Pierre in left or batting 8th is progress. Slow and painful, but progress.

2007-12-05 22:11:01
178.   Lexinthedena
We're in for more anxiety...hopefully it doesn't take too long....
2007-12-05 22:11:08
179.   bigcpa
3 straight days of refreshing my browser every 5 minutes just paid off! I've been pinned to the couch on crutches and seeing this was better than 3 vicadins. I'm feeling greedy and wishing we got 3 yrs. Please trade Pierre. Please please!
2007-12-05 22:12:20
180.   JRSarno
I think you have to give Colletti credit on this one. We didn't succumb to the Boras 5 year black hole deal. 18M/season is sickeningly high for a .222 hitter last season, however, the short contract period will incentivize him to mash. We haven't traded our youth, and now we silence the critics that we "still don't have a big bat."
2007-12-05 22:12:34
181.   Eric Stephen
I think it's funny that both the Dodgers and Angels (over)paid big money over 5 years for a CF last offseason, and now both players no longer have their position.
2007-12-05 22:12:53
182.   El Lay Dave
172 At least he can do less damage in left field.

Are you sure? The only things that makes Pierre acceptable in CF is his speed, which gives him range and allows him to make up for his average skills at jumps and reads. With the foul line and the stands to one side, his speed asset is devalued. The noodle arm doesn't change, although he is closer to third base. Ethier is a better fielder, more power and a higher OBP - just no SBs.

2007-12-05 22:13:18
183.   paranoidandroid
176 Loazia should take whatever used uni is thrown his way. In return for giving up #25, he should be given a shot at being the fifth starter on a good club. His last annual contract with a crooked number is this year, enjoy the paychecks Esteban.

Maybe Andruw will wear #36.

2007-12-05 22:13:36
184.   Jason in Canada
179 I agree. The hot stove has burned an ulcer in my stomach as well. Glad to see some of the angst has paid off.
2007-12-05 22:14:17
185.   El Lay Dave
181 I thought/think that too.
2007-12-05 22:14:19
186.   dzzrtRatt
172 paranoidandroid, you know you surprise me. If anything in this life is certain - if history has taught us anything - it's that you can trade anybody.
2007-12-05 22:14:27
187.   Scanman33
176-I'll be pleased if Jones is wearing #9 come opening day.
2007-12-05 22:15:29
188.   Marty
OK, it's Jones. My gut says, it's not Kemp who's odd man out, It's Ethier. Assuming Pierre is going to left. I can live with that. I don't like it, but I can stomach it. I can't live with Jones coming to the Dodgers and Kemp leaving.
2007-12-05 22:16:26
189.   El Lay Dave
187 LOL! One less CF on the market and the White Sox still need one. JP is actually an upgrade for them and Ozzie Guillen would love him. It's the holiday season and I'm wishin' and hopin' !
2007-12-05 22:16:30
190.   paranoidandroid
182 The Dodgers recognize Pierre's limitations. That is a start. Moving him to 8th in the line-up would be great. Playing him over Ethier is just a reality I think.

His arm in left rather than center is less of a problem for runners taking an extra base.

Maybe we Kemp/Ethier both play right? I don't really think so, but it is possible. We learned last year that this was foolish, never knowing who was going to play from day to day.

I think Ethier is the odd man out. Either the fourth outfielder and you don't sign Sweeney, or he's trade bait.

2007-12-05 22:16:50
191.   Marty
186 Thank you Don Corleone
2007-12-05 22:17:25
192.   sweepstakes
Jones is the new Nomar, just way more expensive. Thanks, Ned.
2007-12-05 22:17:50
193.   paranoidandroid
189 Ozzie Guillen stocking stuffers: Juan Pierre and Doug Flutie.
2007-12-05 22:18:50
194.   El Lay Dave
188 See 159 . Can't imagine Ned going that way.
2007-12-05 22:19:00
195.   Marty
I like Jones. He's going to be good for us.
2007-12-05 22:20:07
196.   Lexinthedena
189- Pierre+Ozzieball=record for bunt singles?.....let's do it!
2007-12-05 22:20:28
197.   dzzrtRatt
Ned, if Kemp replicates August-September for you, and if Jones replicates any year prior to 2007, with everyone else we've got, we could go all the way. There is no way Pierre's speed can replace Kemp's offense plus speed.

Great leaders admit their mistakes, Ned. You're going through an important transformation. Walk into the light, Ned. Walk into the light.

2007-12-05 22:20:29
198.   El Lay Dave
192 No, because Jones is still a legitimate CF - Nomar was miscast as a 1B, then as a 3B.
2007-12-05 22:20:32
199.   Jason in Canada
192 C'mon, let's think positive and dream for at least a couple of minutes before we play that card!
2007-12-05 22:21:04
200.   jystakes
Wow. THought I'd check in to see if anything may have gotten done in the last three hours since I checked, and I have to say I am very happy about this signing. Gives us aLOT more options than we had a few days ago, and with very limited risk. I think I'd prefer now to keep Kemp and sign Kuroda, but if we end up dealing Kemp for Bedard, at least we have replaced his production. Great signing. Torre and Jones so far, good job Ned. Just don't crush all this praise by signing Pedro Feliz.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-05 22:21:10
201.   paranoidandroid
Anybody can get traded? I hope you're right. Pierre was traded to the Cubs for three guys the Marlins had in the bigs last year. But he was in his contract year, and it wasn't 9 mil per for four more of those wonderful Slappy years.
2007-12-05 22:21:53
202.   Bluebleeder87
Scott Boros has had a very bad year no? I'm glad.
2007-12-05 22:22:35
203.   jystakes
192 The only reason Jones is taking this 2-year deal is to prove that he can still mash. He wants his final contract to be a big one, so we have a very, VERY motivated Andruw Jones.
2007-12-05 22:22:54
204.   jasonungar07
Bravo Ned. Great move...
2007-12-05 22:24:00
205.   paranoidandroid
Zito killed the Boras momentum. Gagne's September didn't help matters. Oh, and that whole ARod thing.

No wait! Boras got him the BIGGEST CONTRACT EVER SIGNED.

I'd like to have a few of those bad years.

2007-12-05 22:24:22
206.   Eric Stephen
Heavily front-loaded contract! Per Tony Jackson's blog:

The contract will pay Jones a $12 million signing bonus, a $9 million salary in 2008 and $15 million in 2009

2007-12-05 22:24:50
207.   Lexinthedena
200- I'm ok with Signing Feliz if LaRoche is the trade piece and not Kemp....Feliz plays great D and would bat way down in the order....but I still say sign Kuroda and avoid any big trades...
2007-12-05 22:25:05
208.   paranoidandroid
203 Wasn't he properly motivated last year with the big payday coming this year?
2007-12-05 22:26:06
209.   bigcpa
Question- after Jones hits 40 dongs (maybe twice) and I believe he will, do we negotiate a massive extension? McCourt would get blasted for letting him skip town.
2007-12-05 22:26:36
210.   Eric Stephen
Motivated enough to play through an injury most of the season.
2007-12-05 22:26:39
211.   JRSarno
Jeff Kent just cracked open a brewski.
2007-12-05 22:27:23
212.   dzzrtRatt
201 Ned is not the only GM with undue respect for JP's speed. He might be the only one who would pay him that much, but eating even half his contract is addition by subtraction. Ned can make the White Sox an offer they can't refuse. Take Pierre off our hands. We'll cover $18 million of his remaining salary nut, and we won't be very demanding of prospects in return. Some emergency depth at catcher or OF would be good enough for me.
2007-12-05 22:28:45
213.   Eric Stephen
Who's being naive now, Blubleeder?

Sorry, I got the Godfather bug from dzzrtRatt. :)

2007-12-05 22:29:24
214.   paranoidandroid
212 I just don't see it happening this year. I hope you're right, I just don't agree it is possible. I'd give it a 3% chance of happening. I think Juan is our left fielder for 08.
2007-12-05 22:30:23
215.   CanuckDodger
Okay, people, hold the excitement. This move is neither good nor bad in itself. It is either one or the other depending on what comes next. If we just signed Jones to move Pierre over to left and we now trade EITHER Kemp or Ethier, it's bad. I'm sure some people will think otherwise, but no, it's bad. Pierre is THE problem and he doesn't become less of a problem because he moves from center to left; if anything, he becomes all the more galling, because his speed patrolling center is one of his few assets.

One less centerfielder is on the market now, and I hope that once Rowand and Cameron sign too there will be at least one team left that wants a "proven" centerfielder and leadoff-man. I think the White Sox could be that team but we'll see. Now everybody knows that while we have been openly seeking a new centerfielder the media has been talking about the plan being to move Pierre to left, and I'm sure that the front office has said that, and that is okay, because it would have been stupid to undermine what little trade value Pierre has (if our intention was to trade him all along) by making it sound like the Dodgers think Pierre is garbage. No, the front office played it correctly if they PRETENDED to still want Pierre but really intended to dump him on any sucker they can find as soon as a CF replacement was brought in. Now lets pray that that has been the game plan. I don't want to see Kemp or Ethier traded, and if either guy is traded, I'll say we should have stuck with the status quo instead of signing Jones.

2007-12-05 22:30:51
216.   paranoidandroid
Gotta get some Z's gents. I will have images of Andruw's first homers flying out of Dodger Stadium.

I hope he and Kemp both hit 40 next year.

2007-12-05 22:31:14
217.   jasonungar07
The Rays like Andre Ethier, but the Dodgers would want too much....

(from another article then i posted before)

Stay after Kazmir Ned. You are my hero.

2007-12-05 22:32:08
218.   Eric Enders
207 - Here is how I would finish that sentence:

I'm ok with Signing Feliz if... a meteor crashes into planet earth, instantly killing Andy LaRoche and all other major and minor league third basemen.

2007-12-05 22:32:31
219.   Lexinthedena
Move Pierre for anything.....Ethier, Jones, Kemp, and Young is an amazingly productive outfield rotation...
2007-12-05 22:33:27
220.   gvette
Good job by Ned; the short deal benefits everybody in this deal.

As for Boras, even when he's made the scapegoat in the ARod fiasco, his take was still $14 mil. from that deal.

2007-12-05 22:33:35
221.   paranoidandroid
Before I go, I'm starting a collection to buy Pierre a lifetime supply of HGH. Anyone want to contribute?

He'll either develope some strength, or he'll get caught and get suspended without pay.

We can spike his Gatorade? Any takers?

2007-12-05 22:33:45
222.   Eric Enders
Ned wouldn't have the balls to just release Pierre, would he?
2007-12-05 22:33:50
223.   JRSarno
215 I agree. Trading Ethier or Kemp would only be a "work around," a terrible concession that they made a horrible fiscal decision with Pierre and now don't want to own up to the consequences. The problem truly is Pierre, and I hate to think that his presence is going to inhibit Ethier if they're both on the roster come Spring. Ethier deserves to start.
2007-12-05 22:34:38
224.   jystakes
208 Good point, but truthfully? The kid's got so much raw talent that I think he could have gotten cocky. Or maybe he was injured. Who knows. The point is that the first time in a long time, he knows he's not as coveted as he once was, needs to prove himself again, and he'll do anything to fix that. He must think he can raise his market value or else he would have held out for a longer deal.
2007-12-05 22:35:03
225.   Eric Stephen
I thought for sure Pierre would play CF for 810 Dodger games. So anything's possible I guess.
2007-12-05 22:35:08
226.   jasonungar07
I kid but I totally agree Canuck. The dodgers would be better of financially if we just dump Pierre as oppossed to trading Ethier (god forbid Kemp) and then have to watch Pierre in LF and then brass will decide we have to go replace him. Because that will happen.
2007-12-05 22:35:42
227.   trainwreck
I would rather have Pierre play third than see Feliz at third.
2007-12-05 22:35:50
228.   jystakes
217 My source at the Rays tells me they will not trade Kazmir under any circumstances.
2007-12-05 22:37:00
229.   dzzrtRatt
215 A shorter fence in CF is another prerequisite for Pierre. Those baby throws.

A lineup with a lot of power already and not much speed, plus a smaller outfield...the Phillies? If they don't sign Rowand, they've got to get someone else too.

2007-12-05 22:37:22
230.   Eric Stephen
Maybe Pierre had a similar meeting with Colletti as Grady Little. During the meeting, Colletti explained to Pierre that they (perhaps the players collectively) shared the blame for a poor 2007, and coupled with the suggested move to LF, Pierre "did not react well."

Don't cross The Stache™

2007-12-05 22:37:28
231.   jasonungar07
regardless of the moving of others it warms my heart to know the dodgers(Ned) felt the play in CF on D was unacceptable last year.
2007-12-05 22:38:10
232.   CajunDodger
As much as I think we would be better off without him, releasing him is not necessary. Even if we have to eat $20 mil of the contract, we could get something for him. Not much, but something.
2007-12-05 22:40:37
233.   Eric Stephen
229 The Phillies were one of the best base-stealing teams in history last season. 138 steals (2nd in the NL) in only 157, a phenomenal 87.9% success rate.

Pierre (64/79, 81%) would be a perfect fit!

2007-12-05 22:41:37
234.   GMac In The 909
218 ,230 Pure comedy.

What's the over/under on the times per game Vinny wonders aloud why Andruw doesn't use two hands to catch flyballs?

2007-12-05 22:42:29
235.   CanuckDodger
229 -- I think Victorino will play CF for the Phillies, and that is a good choice. Victorino was out of position playing right field.
2007-12-05 22:42:32
236.   Uncle Miltie
Excellent move Ned. At the very least, Andruw should put up .260/.350/.500 line and play excellent (yet a bit overrated) defense in center. Hopefully Ned is now able to unload Pierre. Juan Pierre in left field is a disaster, though at least this improves the outfield defense. Will Matt Kemp now be moved for Erik Bedard? Will LaRoche be given an opportunity to win the 3B job in spring training now that the Dodgers have acquired a veteran slugger? I would definitely take Andruw Jones over Torii Hunter. Having Furcal here probably didn't hurt...

Where is the nearest Gold Club to Dodger Stadium? Andruw demands to know...

2007-12-05 22:45:32
237.   Lexinthedena
236- Jones is not an overrated centerfielder....he gets unbelievable jumps out's amazing how many gap hits he takes away...
2007-12-05 22:48:36
238.   bigcpa
1 year ago a 30 yr old OF with this career line .282/.327/.517 (and subpar D) was worth a $136M deal. To think we got Jones' .263/.342/.497 career line and stellar D for $36M is a ridiculous bargain. He is going to bust tail next year to disprove the doubters. This is a deal- dare I say- that DePo would have pulled off.
2007-12-05 22:49:57
239.   Jon Weisman
Sorry, folks - I got caught in the switches. There's a new post up top, but I won't be in on the conversation until tomorrow.
2007-12-05 22:50:08
240.   KG16
If it's cool with everyone else, I'm going to wait on the gloom/doom or joy decision until we see what happens our fourth outfielder situation.

If Pierre is playing somewhere else next year, than this is a great move. If Pierre is in left for the Dodgers next year, it's a lateral move.

Still, hope springs eternal.

2007-12-05 22:53:01
241.   Jon Weisman
It's funny - I started watching a movie right after comment 128 on this thread.
2007-12-05 22:55:33
242.   Sagehen
Let me join in the invocation: please oh please, let it be Pierre who is traded.

Reasons to keep Kemp and Ethier:
(1) They're better than Pierre (might as well begin with the obvious)
(2) Jones has a short term contract, and the Dodgers do not have much outfield depth in the system. All the more reason to keep some young outfielders.
(3) As a left-handed hitter, Ethier provides some balance to the heart of the lineup -- otherwise, only Loney hits left. Yeah, Pierre is a lefty as well, but that's less important batting after Furcal or in the 8 slot.
(4) Kemp could hit 40. Keep him. Keep him. He stings the ball like no one I've seen play for the Dodgers since, well, Piazza.

2007-12-05 22:59:10
243.   Louis in SF
The perfect trade now if you could pull it off would be to find a team that wants Pierre and yes have the Dodgers be willing to eat a significant portion of his salary and get some prospects back.

Is their anybody worthwhile on the Texas Rangers?

2007-12-05 23:31:18
244.   txdodger73
Does anyone think this short 2 year deal is Ned saying "Kemp will not be traded"? Jones is still young enough to rebound from his poor 2007 season, just 2 seasons removed from a 41 HR power surge. I just don't see Ned dealing Kemp knowing Jones could be gone in 2 seasons, the point where Kemp should be breaking out. While starting pitching is a need I don't think the Dodgers need it bad enough to deal Kemp.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.