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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Dodgers Sign Andruw Jones
2007-12-05 22:47
by Jon Weisman

Two years, $36 million. A good move that can be made better if the right outfielder is displaced. More in the morning.

Update: Okay, I couldn't resist getting this in before midnight.

This move improves the Dodgers, but they can shortcircuit it by overvaluing or undervaluing the wrong players.

Signing Jones (at the cost of a $12 million signing bonus, a $9 million salary in 2008 and $15 million in 2009, according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News - the fifth-highest average annual salary in baseball history, Dylan Hernandez of the Times notes) should not leave the Dodgers satisfied to play Juan Pierre in left field, nor need it push the team into trading Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier. An Ethier-Jones-Kemp outfield is practically a dream for this franchise.

Signing Jones should also not discourage the Dodgers from trying out Andy LaRoche at third base. LaRoche, many people believe, has as much power upside as any Dodger, including Kemp or James Loney. (LaRoche's career minor-league slugging percentage and OPS is higher than the others; I don't know how many Dodger fans realize this.) There are better third basemen out there, but there are also plenty worse, and giving up a good player for marginal improvement (let alone decline) would me a mistake.

Don't get me wrong: There are still good trades the Dodgers could potentially make, but the thinking here is solid - add talent without disrupting the core.

Jones, of course, made his major-league debut at 19, hitting two homers in the World Series that year, and has had an above-average OPS+ for eight of the past 10 seasons. Jones won't knock you out with his on-base percentage: career-high of .366, and only once above .350 in the past five years. His offensive value depends on his power, and what happened is that he went from 51 homers in 2005 to 26 in 2007.

That he fell on his face this past season, aside from putting a lie to the idea that imminent free agency guarantees a great year, reminds us that there are no guarantees from former All-Stars once they turn 30. Dodger fans need look no further than Nomar Garciaparra's 2007 to know that. At the same time, hopes are high that injuries were at fault and that the injuries have been solved. The Dodgers wouldn't be the Dodgers if they weren't taking a health risk, but I'm having trouble being pessimistic.

At least defensively, Jones will help. A winner of 10 consecutive Gold Gloves, no matter how quirky that vote can get, figures to be an improvement over Pierre in center.

The signing also fulfills my dream of pushing Jeff Kent down the batting order from cleanup, where he just doesn't belong. The Dodgers will be pretty righty heavy, however. Here's what we could see in April:

Rafael Furcal, SS
Russell Martin, C
James Loney, 1B
Andruw Jones, CF
Jeff Kent, 2B
Matt Kemp, RF
Nomar Garciaparra/Andy LaRoche, 3B
Juan Pierre/Andre Ethier, LF

That ain't bad, folks. With Tony Abreu or Chin-Lung Hu subbing defensively for Kent in the late innings, I'm ready to battle with that lineup. And Kent should probably be able to ease even further down that batting order road as the kids heat up.

As for the Ethier-Pierre resolution, though Pierre figures to have the advantage because of his contract status and phantom value in the eyes of some, just remember that Colletti has every reason to boost Ethier, as he represents one of his most popular trades. And once you move Pierre out of center field, you render one of his few assets, his defensive speed, much less important. And remember, Colletti has cut bait on acquisitions that didn't work out the way he planned each of the past two seasons.

Certainly, though, the leading speculation is that Kemp or Ethier will go in a package for a starting pitcher. If that happens, he'd better be a gem, because a Pierre-Jones-Ethier outfield isn't nearly as compelling.

Comments (300)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-05 22:52:20
1.   caseybarker
Definitely waiting for the other shoe to drop...
2007-12-05 22:53:17
2.   KG16
LAT'ed from the last post:

If it's cool with everyone else, I'm going to wait on the gloom/doom or joy decision until we see what happens our fourth outfielder situation.
If Pierre is playing somewhere else next year, than this is a great move. If Pierre is in left for the Dodgers next year, it's a lateral move.

Still, hope springs eternal.

2007-12-05 22:53:25
3.   DadofMondy
Wow. Well, that happened.
2007-12-05 22:56:50
4.   Sagehen
Bringing this up from the bottom of the previous thread (forgive the repetition):

Let me join in the invocation: please oh please, let it be Pierre who is traded.

Reasons to keep Kemp and Ethier:
(1) They're better than Pierre (might as well begin with the obvious)
(2) Jones has a short term contract, and the Dodgers do not have much outfield depth in the system. All the more reason to keep some young outfielders.
(3) As a left-handed hitter, Ethier provides some balance to the heart of the lineup -- otherwise, only Loney hits left. Yeah, Pierre is a lefty as well, but that's less important batting after Furcal or in the 8 slot.
(4) Kemp could hit 40. Keep him. Keep him. He stings the ball like no one I've seen play for the Dodgers since, well, Piazza.

2007-12-05 22:59:30
5.   bigcpa
With every 3B short of Mike Schmidt rumored for our GAPING HOLE, I think the yin to this yang will be LaRoche playing elsewhere in 2008. Maybe LaRoche/Ethier can bring back an ace and keep Kemp around.
2007-12-05 22:59:50
6.   LAT
This cannot be true. Just yesterday Scott Boras specifically said Anduw Jones was not interested in a two year deal. Are you suggesting Mr. Boras lied?
2007-12-05 23:02:11
7.   Vishal
wow. i almost went to bed without checking DT again...

trade pierre not kemp, trade pierre not kemp...

2007-12-05 23:02:36
8.   LAT
4. Bringing this up from the bottom of the previous thread (forgive the repetition):

You know there is a word for that. (Well not really a word.) Geez, you go away for a few days and your forgotten.

2007-12-05 23:03:06
9.   Uncle Miltie
Juan Pierre for Richie Sexson. Richie Sexson becomes the most expensive pinch hitter in baseball history. :)
2007-12-05 23:03:40
10.   Vishal
you know what, play pierre at 3rd for all i care (yes, i know he's left-handed). i want a kemp-jones-ethier outfield.
2007-12-05 23:06:12
11.   trainwreck
I beat you to it in last thread. Although, my proposal was I would rather have Pierre at third than Feliz.
2007-12-05 23:06:33
12.   Ladderkite
Two year deal. Love it.

Banish Juan to Baltimore now please. Thanks.

Keep Ethier and Kemp!

2007-12-05 23:06:38
13.   Vishal
you know, pierre in left field might just mean that the extra base runners will take on his arm will be home, as they tag up and score from third.
2007-12-05 23:07:06
14.   GMac In The 909
i want a kemp-jones-ethier outfield.

An outfield like that makes me wanna buy season tickets.

2007-12-05 23:07:16
15.   Vishal
11 hah, i didn't see it. great minds, as they say :)
2007-12-05 23:07:30
16.   Paul Scott
Even if the wrong outfielder is replaced, this is a plus move (unless that wrong outfielder ends up being Kemp).

I think we should have, however, signed him to a longer deal. In the very likely event that he rebounds, we will have missed out on a bargain.

2007-12-05 23:07:35
17.   bigcpa
Similar batters through Age 30:

1) Frank Robinson
2) Eddie Matthews
3) Johnny Bench

2007-12-05 23:07:57
18.   Bob Timmermann
Vin will now have more chances to say "Papamiento."
2007-12-05 23:09:45
19.   Sagehen
8 Forgive me. I started lurking after the term was formed and never quite understood it. I think I understand the origin now. And so ...

I was LATed.

Is that an appropriate use of the term?

(Us relative newbies -- we're just so uninformed)

2007-12-05 23:10:06
20.   Bob Timmermann
Isn't it a principle of negotiation to establish a position you want to start out with and say it's firm and then compromise as events transpire?

Not that I can negotiate anything. I get taken to the cleaners by dry cleaners.

2007-12-05 23:10:26
21.   DadofMondy
The Kid from Curacao is ours. TRADE PIERRE!
2007-12-05 23:10:58
22.   overkill94
I love the deal. How often can you lock up this sort of talent for only two years at a reasonable rate?

I will be positively ecstatic if they dump Pierre instead of Ethier or Kemp, but remember that we should still get a quality return if we do trade one of the youngsters.

My ideal scenario: trade Pierre for whatever, let LaRoche play 3B
Worst-case scenario: Kemp is traded at less than full value for a suboptimal choice (i.e. someone like Rolen)
My bold prediction: Kemp, Hu, and Meloan to the Orioles for Bedard and Tejada

2007-12-05 23:11:31
23.   bigcpa
16 Well you could argue $18m/yr is the market rate. I don't know if 3/54 or 4/72 is still a bargain.
2007-12-05 23:12:20
24.   silverwidow
Rosenthal is saying it's 2 yrs/$32 million. But I'll trust the L.A. Times over him, of course.
2007-12-05 23:12:22
25.   LA Native
Lets hope this isn't one more of Colleti's fading star signings. The scouting reports I have seen say Jones is really in danger of fading more. $18M a year is a lot for a 220 hitter, but I am happier about this than trading for a 3B. I really can't see Pierre in left for 162 games (it is one thing to put him in center, but I may have to boycott much of the season if he is in left). He has to be traded.

Let LaRoche and Nomar battle it out at 3rd. I still think LaRoche is an undervalued prospect. Another pitcher would be nice in lieu of the Schmidt disaster, but a Schmidt, Penny, Lowe, Bills, Loazia/Kuo rotation is at least okay on paper.

2007-12-05 23:13:16
26.   overkill94
16 You also run a much higher risk of him continuing to lose his skills and be a true burden. Even if last year was the beginning of the end (doubtful), we're only on the hook for two years. Long-term contracts should be reserved for elite players with excellent health portfolios.
2007-12-05 23:13:50
27.   Vishal
22 reasonable rate well, we are paying $18 million per, even after he had a really down year. how many players make $20 million per? even a-rod makes what, $27 mill now?

on the other hand, i guess the angels paid hunter close to that much over 5 years, which is even worse.

2007-12-05 23:14:30
28.   NoHoDodger
If Ned acknowledges his mistake and trades Pierre (eating some salary), here is a pretty solid opening day lineup:

Furcal SS
Martin C
Loney 1st
Kent 2b
Jones CF
Kemp RF
Eithier LF
LaRoche 3b
Penny P

2007-12-05 23:15:48
29.   Vishal
24 jackson broke it down into $9 mill in '08, $15 mill in '09, and a $12 mill signing bonus. that adds up nicely to $36 mill.
2007-12-05 23:16:02
30.   silverwidow
Andruw gets a no-trade clause

2007-12-05 23:16:08
31.   Brendan

doom and gloom is not an option. kemp and either are not leaving. if anyone leaves it will be pierre. I don't know how it happened but the dodgers are making all the prudent moves. fear not these are golden days

2007-12-05 23:16:31
32.   berkowit28
A good move that can be made better if the right outfielder is displaced.

Well, not our right outfielder - that's Kemp.

If it requires Ethier to get Bedard, well, OK. Otherwise, I sure hope not.

I suspect that, short of something like that (and how many "somethings" are there like Bedard?) they won't trade any outfielder. Ethier will start the year as 4th outfielder, but will have to be given chances in both left and right field, like last year. This year that will displace Pierre much more often than Kemp. Before the trading deadline, if Ethier is the good Ethier, Pierre will be on the verge of being 4th outfielder, and will instead get traded by the deadline, Dodgers eating much of the salary, for whichever part of the pitching staff needs bolstering (or, god forbid, some other position ruined by injury).

Well, we can hope,

2007-12-05 23:17:04
33.   KG16
I'm rather curious who ESPN will have as the Dodgers projected starters once Jones has his physical.
2007-12-05 23:17:19
34.   overkill94
25 On paper that rotation looks better than what we threw out there last year...when we had the 6th best pitching staff in the NL. Having McDonald, Elbert, and maybe even Kershaw available this year don't hurt either.
2007-12-05 23:17:30
35.   Uncle Miltie
$36 .2 million. Absolutely ridiculous!
2007-12-05 23:17:33
36.   Eric Enders
Maybe now Vin will learn to pronounce Curaçao the American way.

According to Webster's it's "KERR-uh-sau," unless you're from Britain, or you're Vinny, then it's "KERR-uh-so."

And don't get me started on Jones' first name. Why on earth has a random letter "U" caused so many people to butcher the first name as "ON-drew"? It's not even part of the same syllable, people! Rick Monday, I hope you're listening. Just pretend you're saying "Andrew."

2007-12-05 23:17:34
37.   LA Native

I can certainly live with that lineup. Nice balance too. Also, great defense as all are above average defensively except Kent at 2nd (Abreu will be a late inning defensive/pinch runner replacement often).

2007-12-05 23:19:27
38.   Eric Stephen
Since The Godfather was brought up last thread (way back in the days before the Dodgers had Andruw Jones!), I can't stop thinking about casting The Dodger Godfather. Here are some choices I have come up with so far. Feel free to add more:

Pierre - Fredo (hat tip to Brock)
Logan White - Tom Hagen
Scott Boras - Hyman Roth
Jeff Kent - Sonny
J.D. Drew - Tessio
Bob Daly - Jack Woltz
Grady Little - Moe Greene
Larry Beinfest - Virgil Sollozzo
Tom Lasorda - Frank Pantangeli
Ned Colletti - Senator Pat Geary
Paul DePodesta - Apollonia

2007-12-05 23:20:08
39.   Daniel Zappala
Just got back from a great night at a concert, now I find the Dodgers have signed Andruw Jones. Very nice. I should go out on the town more often.
2007-12-05 23:20:14
40.   overkill94
27 In today's market, it's the reasonable rate for a very good outfielder (Soriano, C. Lee, Hunter, etc.)
2007-12-05 23:21:06
41.   Lexinthedena
18- No doubt a phrase or two will be uttered during a home run trot.....Vin will also get to the bottom of Andruw's biker-esque elbow tat....
2007-12-05 23:22:11
42.   LA Native

I agree. There is some more support for the rotation in case of injury this year. I wouldn't count on Kershaw yet though. I think he is a 2009/2010 arrival unless he gets his control under control from the get go in 08.

2007-12-05 23:22:50
43.   Eric Stephen
From the ESPN article, slightly different salary information:

Jones will receive a $12.2 million signing bonus, of which $5.1 million is payable next year, $2.1 million in 2009 and $5 million in 2010. He well get salaries of $9 million next year and $15 million in 2009, and also will receive a no-trade clause

2007-12-05 23:22:50
44.   Sagehen
16 I'm not sure I would call this a bargain except in terms of the overall dollars. That is, it is only a bargain because of the number of years.
2007-12-05 23:22:53
45.   dsfan
This is the first move I wanted. Dodgers just improved their power, their defense at a premium position and in turn their pitching staff. They did it without burning a draft pick or gumming up the payroll long-term. They attacked a buy-low opportunity for a potential Hall of Famer who is 30. The friendship with Furcal is a nice touch, too.

Now the Dodgers need to give Jones a bit more rest than Cox allowed. And Jones probably needs to get in better shape.

Doubt Jones ever gets back into peak form. He has too big of a swing, chases too many sliders. But a 115 OPS-plus, 30 HRs and good defense are realistic.

2007-12-05 23:23:15
46.   Eric Enders
38 Man, that DePodesta was quite a looker.
2007-12-05 23:23:26
47.   trainwreck
We got some pop at every position with that lineup. Furcal has hit 15 twice and everyone else can hit 20 potentially, plus more for some.
2007-12-05 23:23:47
48.   bigcpa
If Kemp is dealt, let us hope it's for Johan or Bedard and not Blanton or Tejada. I do like Dan Haren a lot. Does he have 3 yrs to FA or 2?
2007-12-05 23:24:16
49.   Lexinthedena
38- Mo Green would have sat Pierre....
2007-12-05 23:24:25
50.   KG16
What teams would be interested in Pierre? And for each of them, how much salary would the Dodgers have to eat? Finally, what would the Dodgers get in return?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-05 23:25:26
51.   FirstMohican
At least Druw got on base "an aweful lot" last year, right?
2007-12-05 23:26:08
52.   Eric Enders
50 I have no idea if they're actually interested in him, but Pierre seems to be a fit for Texas, Milwaukee, White Sox, or Houston (Pence is no center fielder).
2007-12-05 23:26:10
53.   GMac In The 909
47 But who will be among the league leaders in stolen bases and hits?

/end sarcasm

2007-12-05 23:26:47
54.   LA Native
Another reason to move Pierre rather than Eithier is Delwyn Young. If Pierre is in left, he pretty much has to play 162 according to tradition leaving no time for a potential masher like Young, who I think should get a look at least as a 4th outfielder/DH in American league games.
2007-12-05 23:27:10
55.   Eric Stephen
Haren is signed through 2010 (if option is exercised):

2008: $4m
2009: $5.5m
2010: $6.75m option ($250k buyout); arb eligible if option bought out

Source: Cots Baseball Contracts

2007-12-05 23:27:33
56.   still bevens
Well hopefully Jones stays healthy and uses these two years as contract years since he blew this one so badly. Maybe we just bought two contract years for the price of one? Wishfull thinking and all that. heh.
2007-12-05 23:28:36
57.   still bevens
52 Houston has Michael Bourn, who is very Pierre-esque. Maybe more power.
2007-12-05 23:30:57
58.   Frank Wright
Not only does he have the 10 Gold Gloves, but he hasnt played less than 153 games in any of the last 10 seasons. Thats a very important and fortunate insurance to the team.
2007-12-05 23:31:24
59.   Eric Stephen
Factoring in the Andruw contract, I have the 2008 Dodger payroll estimated at roughly $104m for 22 players (I guestimated the contracts for 0-3 locks, Saito, and arb numbers for Beimel & Proctor).

Whether they sign Kuroda or trade for Bedard or his ilk, I expect the final payroll will be in the $115-$120m range, barring some other blockbuster or unexpected major move.

2007-12-05 23:31:55
60.   Eric Enders
57 Oh, I forgot they got Bourn this off-season. I guess they don't need a CF then. Bourn is certainly better than Pierre. And faster.
2007-12-05 23:32:49
61.   Vishal
57 even eckstein has "more power" than pierre.
2007-12-05 23:33:06
62.   Jon Weisman
Suckered out of bed and into the discussion. Update to this post up top.
2007-12-05 23:34:09
63.   Gagne55
Pierre's contract basically makes him untradeable. $9 million is a lot for a reserve outfielder, but they got to pay the money regardless and he's a good guy to have as a reserve outfielder. Heck, the Angels have four outfielders with higher salaries than Pierre.

Anyway, I expect a big season out of Jones. Often times when a guy has an uncharacteristically bad year he follows it up with a big one. Think Mike Lowell 2006 or Paul Konerko 2004.

2007-12-05 23:34:28
64.   LA Native
For $15 a car, I have no problem with that. It is pretty funny that both the Dodgers and Angels signed huge contracts to both Pierre and Matthews for 5 years each and then the very next year went out and got an even more expensive center fielder. I don't see either of them in left field next year one way or another, but I have been surprised before.
2007-12-05 23:34:44
65.   Vishal
i hope having a that "big bat" we've been looking for in andruw jones will mean colletti will be more comfortable letting laroche try to win the 3rd base job.
2007-12-05 23:34:46
66.   KG16
52 - so, who needs to be packaged with Pierre to get Weeks?
2007-12-05 23:35:03
67.   LA Native
Actually way more.
2007-12-05 23:36:06
68.   Eric Stephen
Jon, in regards to the Dodgers being right heavy, they should just have Matt Kemp hit left-handed, which would make it more fair for opposing hurlers. :)
2007-12-05 23:36:11
69.   LA Native
I agree. If there are anymore deals to be done, lets do it for pitching, although I am rooting for no more deals other than getting rid of Pierre.
2007-12-05 23:36:29
70.   Eric Enders
62 Jon, the lineup you listed above features four right-handed power hitters in a row. I'm laying odds that Loney hits 4th or 5th to break up that group.
2007-12-05 23:36:36
71.   Gagne55
Also I gotta say Jones > Hunter and cheaper too. I like Colletti right now. (Assuming Kemp doesn't get traded of course, which I don't think he will)
2007-12-05 23:38:06
72.   DougS
33 45 If there is a sense that Jones need more rest, then I expect that we will go into spring training with a 4-headed beast, rather like last year. I don't expect Ned to acknowledge that Pierre was a mistake quite so quickly or easily that he will trade him during the off-season. The best that we can hope for is that Pierre will be the most overpaid utility outfielder in the bigs.
2007-12-05 23:39:34
73.   Vishal
70 agreed.


2007-12-05 23:39:37
74.   Eric Enders
Has anyone considered that Colletti's plan might be to trade nobody, move Pierre to left, and just continue the Ethier/Kemp platoon from 2007?
2007-12-05 23:40:25
75.   bigcpa
If the most likely Kemp trade is for pitching, then we should be rooting for a Kuroda signing.
2007-12-05 23:40:32
76.   fanerman
Alright. Now just get demote Juan Pierre and we got ourselves the 2008 NL West champs.
2007-12-05 23:41:36
77.   LA Native
Put Ethier above LaRoche/Nomar. Ethier is valuable because he can play right as well, which Pierre can't in case of an injury to Kemp.
2007-12-05 23:41:46
78.   dsfan

May be wishful thinking on my part, but I think this does improve the chances of LaRoche getting a meaningful opportunity to win the job. Rolen's bat becomes less appealing, I suspect -- and maybe the Rolen stuff was a ruse relating to negotiations with Andruw.

2007-12-05 23:42:50
79.   bhsportsguy
62 Nice addition. Until we hear from Ned, Joe and the rest, we don't know what else they have in store outside of that A. Jones is going to be playing CF for the Dodgers.

If Kent comes back, you now have Martin, Loney, Kent, Furcal, Ethier/Kemp/Pierre/Jones and 3B. You can play LaRoche in that situation and Ned is now saying that the job will be up for grabs this spring.

My fear was that if Kent didn't come back and they did not add someone like Andruw Jones, the Dodgers would be more inclined to go after someone to play 3B.

Like I said earlier, we will have a better idea tomorrow when I am sure there will be a press conference or conference call but for now, hey I think we are back doing good moves now lets see if we can make a great move.

2007-12-05 23:43:15
80.   DougS
I agree with Jon's update assessment; this is a solid move, and the very worst that you can say about it is there are no obvious flaws or insane risks. We won't be looking back on it and complaining about Ned's intelligence or sanity. This is not a Kevin Malone-type signing.

But wasn't Ethier one of dePodesta's acquisitions, or am I misreading that last graf?

2007-12-05 23:43:45
81.   dsfan
I really do think the Dodgers need to get Andruw a bit more rest than he got with the Braves. His workload has been phenomenal and he is past his peak years. Nothing wrong with giving him 15-20 starts off. I recall hearing that he is icing his knees more these days. Cox never sat him and those Atlanta summers are brutal.
2007-12-05 23:43:45
82.   Eric Stephen
The update Times article mentioned Chan Ho is back in the fold for a NRI to spring training, to be announced after the Rule 5 draft.

Pitching need solved! :)

2007-12-05 23:43:51
83.   LA Native
Rolen wouldn't make sense at this point.
2007-12-05 23:43:58
84.   KG16
74 - Honestly, I think Pierre in left lasts no more than two losses due to runners tagging up from third on balls hit to Pierre, as Vishal said in 13 . I have no doubt that guys will try and score from third on fly balls to left if Pierre is there, and the moment it starts costing the Dodgers wins certain columnists will be howling.
2007-12-05 23:44:56
85.   LA Native
Ethier was traded for Bradley, which was one of Ned's first deals.
2007-12-05 23:45:05
86.   Ladderkite
74 I tried not to consider it, but yes. Not pretty for Delwyn.
2007-12-05 23:45:30
87.   KG16
I've got another thought, and then I'm going to do some late night reading... if Kent retires, what are the odds that Nomar is our opening day second baseman?
2007-12-05 23:45:36
88.   silverwidow
But wasn't Ethier one of dePodesta's acquisitions

Haha, no! Ethier for Bradley/A. Perez ring a bell?

2007-12-05 23:47:24
89.   bhsportsguy
BTW, I was talking to ToyCannon about this and I wonder if someone else differs on this point but I think Jeff Kent's deadline is March 1st because that is the last day to report to Spring Training under the CBA.

Kent has a contract in theory, he is on the 40 man roster, he does not get paid until Opening Day so really, the Dodgers cannot really force his hand until he is contractually bound to perform.

He cannot go to another team, demand a trade or anything. He could retire but I believe the Dodgers would still retain his rights if he tried to quit and then resign with someone else.

My hunch is that the Jones deal is enough for Kent to sign on, if they were to deal for a pitcher, that would clinch it.

2007-12-05 23:47:33
90.   Gagne55
80 Ethier was not a DePodesta aquisition. Colletti aquired him from the A's in exchange for Milton Bradley.
2007-12-05 23:47:38
91.   overkill94
It feels really really weird to say this, but I actually feel confident that Ned and friends will do the right thing and trade Pierre (or at the least, not trade Kemp). This offseason has been nothing but pleasant surprises so far and I honestly believe that this regime has learned its lesson.

That, or they started reading Dodger Thoughts since they keep stealing our ideas :)

2007-12-05 23:47:53
92.   Eric Stephen
I don't think Nomar will ever play anything other than 3B or 1B ever again.
2007-12-05 23:47:53
93.   Eric Enders
83 Ned wants character guys, right? Rolen has started feuds with every manager he's ever had in the majors, including our current 3B coach. I'd say the chances of getting Rolen are slim to none.
2007-12-05 23:48:35
94.   bigcpa
Re: Pierre targets
I read Texas likes Corey Patterson. Gotta figure Rowand goes to Chicago. Cameron is a wildcard. I think Minnesota can use Pierre if they hold on to Santana. And Dusty Baker would love to have him back.
2007-12-05 23:49:53
95.   Jon Weisman
Further edits made to the post above.

There's no real guessing the batting order, and no reason to assume it would be the same from game to game anyway. Your points about Loney are valid, but even in your order there are three righties in a row.

I have Ethier batting eighth on the assumption that Nomar will be the opening day third baseman, and that he wouldn't bat eighth.

2007-12-05 23:50:43
96.   Gagne55
87 If Kent retires this offseason, then Grady Little will be our opening day second baseman. (Note that this is one of those if then statements that is true as a whole because the independent statement is always false)
2007-12-05 23:50:53
97.   Vishal
80 colletti traded milton bradley to oakland for andre ethier.
2007-12-05 23:51:42
98.   Vishal
97 i should've realized that 30 other people would beat me to that one.
2007-12-05 23:53:27
99.   Jon Weisman
He may be oversensitive and prickly, but Kent does not strike me as the kind of guy who would string a team along and then bail.
2007-12-05 23:54:06
100.   Retire 55
You're right on the merits, Jon. But I think it's much more likely that we'll be waving goodbye to Matt Kemp in the near future.

With Nomar and Pierre in the opening day lineup in place of Kemp and LaRoche, we'll still have a deeply flawed offense. Kemp will bring a boost to the rotation, but overall you'll be looking at a team that's a lot more expensive and potentially only a little bit better.

I hope I'm wrong!

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-05 23:55:16
101.   Retire 55
Er, I meant "Trading Kemp will bring a boost..."
2007-12-05 23:57:14
102.   Jon Weisman
100 - Well, I don't want to see Kemp traded, but I would like to think that whatever trade the Dodgers might make with their young players would at least bring equal or greater value for 2008, even if it hurts the team in the long run.
2007-12-05 23:57:51
103.   ucladodger
As someone said last topic, i think the fact that the contract is for 2 years is a good sign that Kemp is staying. It would be absolutely hideous if we trade Kemp for Bedard, and in two years, both Bedard and Jones leave.
2007-12-05 23:58:08
104.   jasonungar07
Has anyone mentioned the times article where it says (not Ned, Dylan H.) that Jones wanted to play here because of Furcal and Fredo?
2007-12-05 23:58:44
105.   Jon Weisman
But of course, it's not as if adding Andruw Jones ensures the Dodgers of anything. I just like that they added talent without giving anyone up.
2007-12-05 23:59:22
106.   bigcpa
The surplus of outfielders could make either Kemp or Ethier expendable.

Does Dylan Hernandez come up with this himself? Is he implying that Pierre is not expendable or is he conceding that he has no trade value?

2007-12-05 23:59:22
107.   grandcosmo
Long term, how confident can you be in a GM who needs to spend $36 million one year to make up for the $40 million that he threw down a rat hole the year before when he "addressed" the team's CF needs?
2007-12-06 00:02:11
108.   Vishal
101 do we really need a boost to the rotation? if schmidt is healthy (yeah, a pretty big if, to be sure), we've got a LOT of pitchers who can possibly contribute. bills, penny, and lowe are solid. if we figure that schmidt and loaiza combined can be cobbled together tomake 4th starter, we should have NO trouble making a 5th starter from the likes of kuo, hull, stults, probably kershaw or elbert later in the season, and maybe even a spot start or two from any of hendrickparkmillermacdonalduff.
2007-12-06 00:02:34
109.   LogikReader
Would you believe that even with Andruw Jones having one of the worst years of his career, he still hit MORE home runs than anyone on the Dodgers? He hit 26. Nobody else on our current roster hit more than 20.


107 It's not as if people cannot learn from their mistakes.

2007-12-06 00:03:42
110.   silverwidow
Jones is believed to like the idea of hitting behind fleet-footed Rafael Furcal and Juan Pierre, which could allow him to drive in more runs.

From LA Times. Looks like Pierre might be staying (yikes...).

2007-12-06 00:04:28
111.   Vishal
107 i hope it means he's learning. but i'm still no exactly confident.
2007-12-06 00:04:46
112.   Vishal
*not exactly
2007-12-06 00:05:07
113.   Eric Stephen
Once the Andruw signing is official, the Dodgers will have 39 players on the 40-man roster. 27 of the 39 (69%) are "homegrown", in that they were either drafted or signed as an amateur by the club or have played in the majors exclusively with LA (like Ethier & Houlton).

For comparison purposes, the Twins have 23 of 38 homegrown players, 60.5%.

2007-12-06 00:05:08
114.   LogikReader

I thought of this being a Luis Gonzalez repeat scenario, but there are two key differences.

1. Andruw is only 30
2. Gonzo could not even DREAM of having the kind of defense A Jones brings every night. He makes it look so easy too.

2007-12-06 00:05:54
115.   LogikReader

I meant to say, "originally, I thought of this..."

2007-12-06 00:06:18
116.   Greg Brock
Great signing. Now ditch the stiff and play Ethier and Kemp.

Night all.

2007-12-06 00:06:39
117.   dan310
The Pierre to left story reminds me of the Izturis to third plan a couple years back. It makes a nice story, and it may protect some veteran egos, but pretty soon everyone should realize that when you shift an already sub-par hitter to the right in the defensive spectrum, bad things happen. So look for the Dodgers to trade Pierre for Maddux in a couple months.
2007-12-06 00:08:14
118.   LogikReader
It's hard to go back to sleep now, but I'll try. nite all!
2007-12-06 00:10:05
119.   Jon Weisman
106 - "could"

I mean, is there any argument that the Dodgers wouldn't consider trading Kemp or Ethier at this point? I'd lose Pierre, but I think it's axiomatic that Kemp or Ethier could go.

I think expendable can be a pejorative word, though, which is why the sentence comes across poorly.

2007-12-06 00:11:14
120.   Jon Weisman
117 - I'll agree with you, but just to change it up, we'll sub Glavine for Maddux.
2007-12-06 00:11:17
121.   bhsportsguy
84 Last season, the average number of sacrifice flys for a National League team was 47, the league leaders tied at 58. So that is under 1 every 3 games so unless you can forecast an increase in those oppurtunities, I don't think there will be an onslaught of sacrifice flys that will raise concerns about Pierre's arm in LF.
2007-12-06 00:13:28
122.   ryu
I feel Pierre is less likely than Kemp to be traded. Rightfully or not.

There are just too many excuses for him to stay (e.g. speed, perceived ability to get on base) and for Kemp to leave (perceived attitude problems in the clubhouse and lack of base running skills).

2007-12-06 00:17:02
123.   Uncle Miltie
I'm in the library trying to study for my economics final...

Couldn't Ned have waited until Friday to sign Andruw Jones?

2007-12-06 00:18:49
124.   dzzrtRatt
Main Entry:

: that may be expended: as a: normally used up or consumed in service b: more easily or economically replaced than rescued, salvaged, or protected.

They Were Expendable (1945): Shortly after Pearl Harbor, a squadron of PT-boat crews in the Philippines must battle the Navy brass between skirmishes with the Japanese. The title says it all about the Navy's attitude towards the PT-boats and their crews.

2007-12-06 00:18:57
125.   jasonungar07
109 and rbi
2007-12-06 00:23:26
126.   dzzrtRatt
122 Kemp's "lack of baserunning skills?" That's a huge misnomer. His running led to a lot of infield hits. Loney's the slow one. Kemp is a total athlete. He's just picky about being near garbage, that's all. Like Jerry Seinfeld.

There is no reason on earth to trade Kemp unless it brings a huge return. I understand the O's have already rejected Kemp and Kershaw for Bedard. We shouldn't have to go that much higher.

With Jones and Kemp both in the lineup, we can afford to be a little less solid in the pitching rotation.

11 teams want Bedard; I don't think we're getting him, and if we don't get him, I don't see Kemp going anywhere. Pierre and even Ethier might move in trades for smaller pieces, but Kemp is bait only for the biggest fish.

2007-12-06 00:23:58
127.   Jon Weisman
122 - Kemp would be traded to get a star.

Pierre would be traded to get a middle reliever.

It's not as if the two guys are really competing with each other. If the Dodgers can't get suitable return on a deal with Kemp as a centerpiece, and knew they were going into Spring Training with four starting outfielders, they might well eat Pierre's contract in a trade. Or just let Ethier be 3.5 again.

But the reason Kemp is more likely to be traded is because at his salary, he is valued more highly by MLB. It's that simple.

2007-12-06 00:24:43
128.   Jon Weisman
126 - I think he meant that as "perceived ... lack of baserunning skills."
2007-12-06 00:26:50
129.   bigcpa
126 Where did you hear we offered Kemp/Kershaw?
2007-12-06 00:29:10
130.   milkshakeballa
Hey guys, long time lurker, had to get in the action 2nite.

I highly doubt, like 99.9999% doubt that the Orioles would have refused a Kemp/Kershaw for Bedard trade. That was never on the table!

2007-12-06 00:29:43
131.   jasonungar07
Of course it's just a "dodger source" and it's in the Seattle paper

The Dodgers, who have seemingly had one foot in and one foot out of just about every deal here, are probably not a contender for Bedard. The package that was supposedly offered was setup man Jonathan Broxton and outfielder Matt Kemp, but Dodgers GM Ned Colletti told an L.A. reporter he had no interest in trading Broxton, and a Dodgers source said they wouldn't trade Kemp unless they had already closed a deal with free agent Andruw Jones to replace him, which they did Wednesday.

2007-12-06 00:31:56
132.   Jon Weisman
129 - I think he meant Kemp/Broxton, which of course turned out to be false anyway.
2007-12-06 00:31:57
133.   bhsportsguy
126 The Braves had the Jones boys and Texeira and they could not get passed some shaky pitching.

With Kent and a healthy Furcal, the Dodgers are in position to have a team with the potential for double digit home runs at every spot. I think that is something that Ned and the rest of the front office has to consider before making their next deal.

2007-12-06 00:33:39
134.   dzzrtRatt
129 Somewhere buried in the annals of I think. Caveat emptor. It might've been Colleti rejecting it. And it was probably hot stove reporting at its finest. Know what? I'll withdraw it. Didn't happen.

One thing I did read was the Times saying Colletti said the price for Bedard was "too high." If it was too high Monday, it's still too high today, even if we have someone who's "expendable."

2007-12-06 01:03:23
135.   Bleed Dodger Blue
Awesome ... now if the Dodgers sign Kuroda, Blue will have done everything I wanted this offseason.

Either way, a good signing. I hope we hang on to Kemp, but if we move him for a Haren or Bedard, I won't be too broken up, either.

Things are looking up ...

2007-12-06 01:34:36
136.   Robert Daeley
Steve Henson:

"A Dodgers source said that if the season began today, Pierre would compete with Andre Ethier for playing time in left field. Matt Kemp and Ethier would be penciled into right field.

"Another option is to trade an outfielder, but a source said that Kemp is not expected to be dealt despite the widespread interest in him. However, Colletti now has flexibility to come up with a package that might fetch a premier pitcher such as Erik Bedard of the Baltimore Orioles or Dan Haren of the Oakland A's. First, though, the Dodgers are trying to sign Japanese starter Hiroku Kuroda, who wants a four-year, $40 million deal and also is being pursued by the Seattle Mariners and Arizona Diamondbacks."

2007-12-06 01:46:57
137.   dodgers1988
great job getting jones
If they trade kemp only for johan santana
or keep him
2007-12-06 01:55:31
138.   Ladderkite
Could we get Kazmir for less? Or more?
2007-12-06 02:01:11
139.   Michael D
By itself I love this move. I have a hard time believing Jones will put up another year like this year again in the next two. I don't think we have to worry about somebody leading the team with 20 home runs again.

Of course we now have to see who the odd man out is in the outfield. Keeping Pierre would suck. If we got rid of Pierre, we'd go from 2/3rds of a terrible outfield last year to one of the best outfield defenses in the game with great arms in all three places. Signing another centerfielder a year after giving one $45 million means Ned as admitted his mistake. Jones isn't taking his 10 gold gloves and hall of fame bound resume out of center field. Hopefully Ned will realize that Pierre is a sunk cost and will Russ Ortiz him if necessary. I still think that with his 60+ steals last year, someone would be interested in having him at say half the price.

2007-12-06 02:11:38
140.   imperabo
Bold prediction: Pierre will start every game in left field for the Dodgers for at least 2 more seasons. I don't blame everyone for fantasizing about a Fredo-free world, but I think you're just setting yourselves up for torment. I don't think Colleti has the guts to trade Kemp, but I think Ethier is gone. I don't think Andrew is better overall than Ethier at this point, so I'm not terribly excited about all this. Ethier won't fetch much on his own either.
2007-12-06 02:19:22
141.   thinkblue0
Jon hits the nail on the head.

This is a great move. I'm salivating at the thought of a Kemp/Jones/Eithier outfield and the addition of Jones gives our lineup the much needed pop we're looking for.

If Ned can find ANYONE to take Pierre this will be a massively successful offseason.

2007-12-06 02:27:53
142.   dodgers1988
pierre to padres pleassssssssssssseeeeeee
2007-12-06 02:43:35
143.   natepurcell
If we sign Kuroda, who would we realistically trade for?
2007-12-06 02:53:28
144.   Xeifrank
I think AJON will get a boost to his .249 BABIP from last year. His LD% was down slightly and his FB% was up slightly but not enough for the .249 BABIP. Alot of his 92 homeruns from 2005-2006 became warning track fly balls in 2007, hopefully for our sake the cause of this was from his injury. At the very least AJON should get a decent boost to his overall numbers just from moving out of the pitchers park in Atlanta into the more neutral park of Dodger Stadium. I would expect to see a 35-40 point boost to his OPS based on moving to a more hitter friendly park alone. My over/under for AJON would be about an .850 OPS.
vr, Xei
2007-12-06 02:54:44
145.   natepurcell

Its righty heavy but it'll suffice.


Again, right handed heavy but it works.

2007-12-06 02:55:38
146.   natepurcell
265/350/510 32hrs

That would be gravvyyyyy.

2007-12-06 03:06:51
147.   Bleed Dodger Blue
141 Hell, I'll do one better.

If Colletti can sign Kuroda AND trade Pierre for ANYthing, I'll take back EVERY mean thing I've said about him.

... except anything involving his mustache.

2007-12-06 03:11:39
148.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 136

IMO, the most likely scenario is that we enter ST with both Pierre and Ethier. What happens after that may depend on a lot on Torre. Then we would just pray that Ethier gets hot in ST and at the start of the season, while Pierre slumps. My impression is that once Torre decides to make a roster change, he tends to stick with it; hopefully he starts Ethier in LF, and Pierre becomes the 4th OF who's eventually traded.


2007-12-06 03:13:06
149.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 145

Yep, it works. We'd be real contenders for the pennant, especially with the pitching depth in the minors we have.


2007-12-06 03:14:53
150.   natepurcell
I hope the Dodgers pick up Chris Lubanski in the rule 5 draft.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-06 03:49:29
151.   Sagehen
123 Tell me about it. I'm at home grading papers before the last day of classes.

But at least I now have happy thoughts to put me to sleep ... when I get there.

Ethier, Jones, Kemp ... an outfield to dream about.

2007-12-06 04:43:30
152.   weatherman
All this talk about trades and signings made me completely forget that Joe Torre is our manager. Joe Torre. I am excited about the Dodgers.
2007-12-06 04:54:06
153.   D4P
There is much I could say about this signing, but I will limit my comments to this:

1. There is no way (no way!) Andruw Jones deserves to be the fifth-highest paid player in 2008, much less the fifth-highest paid player in baseball history. Even at his best, he's nowhere near that good. What a farce.

2. Can we void his contract if his name shows up in the Mitchell Report?

2007-12-06 05:01:52
154.   Felton
Ken Rosenthal suggested that Kemp could start the year in the minors. I am just stunned that this guy gets paid to make comments like that.
2007-12-06 05:08:52
155.   Sub4Era
Yes! This is a good thing to wake up to... now this team could win 10 more games next year with Jones and the removal of Pierre. Addition and addition by subtraction. Another arm in the rotation and we should be set.
2007-12-06 05:10:51
156.   D4P
now this team could win 10 more games next year with Jones and the removal of Pierre



2007-12-06 05:12:21
157.   D4P
2007 EQA:

Pierre: .257

Jones: .259

2007-12-06 05:21:21
158.   Sub4Era
156 You are taking numbers from his worst season, which allowed us to cinch a contract like this. Are you really comparing Pierre to Andrew Jones? ...seriously?
2007-12-06 05:25:18
159.   Suffering Bruin
157 158 "One of these things is not like the other... one of these things just doesn't belong..."
2007-12-06 05:29:15
160.   D4P
You are taking numbers from his worst season

Which was also his most recent.

2007-12-06 05:31:43
161.   D4P
Career OBP:

Pierre .348
Jones .342

2007 OBP:

Pierre .331
Jones .311


2007-12-06 05:37:12
162.   Suffering Bruin
Can we look at career slugging percentage now? Aw, what the hey, here goes nothing...

Pierre .374

Jones .497

2007-12-06 05:38:40
163.   Suffering Bruin
How about OBP for the last three seasons?

Pierre .326 .330 .331

Jones .347 .363 .311

2007-12-06 05:40:13
164.   Suffering Bruin
Career OPS+

Pierre 84
Jones 113

2007-12-06 05:40:41
165.   Suffering Bruin
Uh, let me try that again...

Pierre 84
Jones 113

2007-12-06 05:41:47
166.   Suffering Bruin
Don't make me do the black ink test. This is as much research as I can stand at this hour.
2007-12-06 05:42:11
167.   Suffering Bruin
And I'm off to work. This was fun, talking to myself.
2007-12-06 05:46:59
168.   Sub4Era
161 We didn't sign Jones to be an OB guy, that isn't his strength. We signed him to be everything in center that Pierre is NOT, and also aid us in this little lingering stat

Career HR's

Jones 368 at age 30
Pierre 12 at age 30

There is no way this signing can be viewed as negative unless Kemp is the piece removed.

2007-12-06 05:53:07
169.   weatherman
Let us also keep in mind that Jones is one of the best defensive center fielders (as opposed to offensive?) that the game has ever seen.
2007-12-06 05:53:26
170.   D4P
There is no way this signing can be viewed as negative

Ways in which this signing can be viewed as negative:

1. The very real possibility that we'll be paying someone the 5th highest salary ever to repeat his dismal 2007 season

2007-12-06 05:57:36
171.   Sub4Era
171 And how does that hurt the team? Him in his worst season is still better than Pierre. Not like our payroll is too bloated and cant handle it. Thats one of the advantages to being a large market team, we can take risks like this without killing ourselves. Salary is no object with a 2 year deal and the contracts we have coming off the books next season.
2007-12-06 05:58:07
172.   StolenMonkey86
Career BABIP:
JP: .318
AJ: .279

2007 BABIP:
JP: .310
AJ: .242 (!)

PrOPS had him at .266/.351/.471 this past year based on batted ball types. I think he bounces back with a bit higher slugging.

2007-12-06 05:59:00
173.   Sub4Era
171 I don't know why I keep quoting myself...
2007-12-06 06:01:59
174.   D4P
My interpretation of Jones's drop in BABIP over the past few years is that he is not hitting the ball as hard as he used to. This would also help explain his drop in HRs.
2007-12-06 06:06:24
175.   Sam DC
4: LOL

Ratt last thread: When someone is urged to "walk into the light," doesn't that conventionally mean that they're, you know, dying . . .

Buck Martinez on XM five minutes: "Well, now Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier are expendable." Sigh. When LaRoche proudly wears his nickname "The Hole," maybe those guys can team up as "The Expendables."

2007-12-06 06:07:13
176.   Sam DC
Ahh oops -- that "4 : LOL" was actually an "8 : LOL"
2007-12-06 06:09:13
177.   StolenMonkey86
174 - His HR/FB went down only this year, and had actually been much higher in 2005 and 2006 His BABIP has been below average the last three years, he just didn't hit as many balls out of play this year. I don't see how you can argue that a two year spike followed by a drop in HR/FB can evidence an overall decline in power.
2007-12-06 06:09:44
178.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Whew Weee. 12 million signing bonus, 9 mill first year, 15 mill last. Jonesy better have a bounce back year. I think he has a few good years left, hopefully. He's not exactly a young man anymore, and he hasn't taken the best care of himself physically.

I'm glad colets and company keep this deal to 2 years

Its a start, we need power in our lineup, let me repeat, we need power in our lineup!

The sweaty one is back, ladies.

How's it goin Jon? I need to order some more DT shirts, as Christmas Presents.

2007-12-06 06:13:14
179.   Ken Noe
The money for Jones is indeed ridiculous, and his health is questionable, but the plus side is that it is only a two-year contract, which I never thought Boras would give up. Two years also, I think, make it less likely that NedCo trades the future in Kemp or to a lesser extent Either, unless he can add Bedard. The real incentive for Colletti is to move Pierre and part of that salary--part because we'd have to subsidize JP wherever he goes. Given past deals, I've seen no indication that NedCo will hesitate to move JP if he can make a trade.

By the way, I think this makes it more likely that LaRoche and not some stiff like Rolen is the third baseman. NedCo thinks he's added the power he needs.

I've lived in suburban Atlanta for seventeen years, and watched the Braves play a lot. Jones has never been a favorite, but he's an amazing defensive player, and if his elbow and mechanics get healthy, Jon's dream of yesterday may well come true.

2007-12-06 06:14:26
180.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Lets just say i'm more excited of the Jonesy signing than I was of J.D.Drew
2007-12-06 06:16:40
181.   D4P
I'm not a big fan of low-OBP/high-SLG guys.

For one thing, isn't OBP supposedly 2-3 times more important than SLG...?

2007-12-06 06:18:20
182.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Andruw Jones and Miquel Cabrera need to go on a Jenny Craig Diet, that nutrisystem ESPN thing isn't working, someone in that clubhouses job should be to escort these guys away from the buffet table
2007-12-06 06:18:35
183.   Bumsrap
Blalock could be the left side bat that could balance the offense.


2007-12-06 06:19:29
184.   StolenMonkey86
But in any event, can we trade Juan Pierre for Jay Payton and call it an offseason?
2007-12-06 06:22:33
185.   Gen3Blue
Wow, what a story to wake up to. To land that big bat without giving up players or a long contract is too good to be true. I know a trade could follow, but things have gone so well I can almost believe the D's could hold at leat Kemp as Jones and Pierre will leave in a couple of years and there isn't much down the system. I also echo someone who earlier said if we give up much for a pitcher, he better be a beaut.

Bedard seems a good one, but I don't know if he is really available. Did that crazy Oak-Twin-Mets trade go through?, guess I'll go check. I can only hope Pierre is in the trade, but someone who really deserves a chance to play is Young, though I doubt his hitting ability is appreciated enough to give him good trade value.

2007-12-06 06:24:55
186.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
I'm excited, fellas. I'm ready for spring to get here.
2007-12-06 06:28:09
188.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Jose(Ticking Time Bomb)Guillen
2007-12-06 06:30:40
189.   uke
Anyone else worried by the fact that he's probably coming down off the juice and his numbers will never be what they were two years ago? What about the fact he needs to lose 30 lbs? I sure hope they gave him a better physical than they gave Schmidt...
2007-12-06 06:32:05
190.   D4P
A certain agent on Carlos Pena, who's looking for a multi-year deal after a single good season:

"Getting a long-term deal for those types of seasons are difficult," said Boras, "because you have a scaling that the club argues it happens only once and our opinion is it'll probably repeat itself."*

Gee. I wonder if his opinion is that Andruw Jones's 2007 will repeat itself.

2007-12-06 06:32:08
191.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
182. and the Dodger clubhouse puts out a "mean" buffet line, its juicy, was tagging along with a local media outlet and saw it for first time this year
2007-12-06 06:34:21
192.   Sam DC
Welcome back SSSJ -- remember, no swearing or substitutes/short forms/acronoyms, etc. Rules at the bottom right.

And not to be a downer on a fun post-deal morning, but I find your digs at Jose Guillen kind of grating. I mean, I get there's plenty 'o room to criticize the man, but your tone is pretty harsh.

2007-12-06 06:34:51
193.   Daniel Zappala
D4P is being inhabited by the cynical spirit of Steve. Your dissertation going OK?
2007-12-06 06:35:57
194.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
I believe a clause in Jonesy's contract says he must have his colon cleansed after every away series. Dodger medical staff believes this will help free up the log jam in Andruws colon and intestines, thus helping him maintain a playable weight
2007-12-06 06:37:33
195.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
thats whats different about me, i like to push the envelope a little, good talking to you Sammy
2007-12-06 06:37:44
196.   D4P
Your dissertation going OK?

I guess so. My advisor wants me to do a pretty significant revision of chapters 5 and 6, which is what I'm working on as we speak. In general, he thinks they're too complicated and he wants me to cut out a bunch of stuff. My final document will probably be around 200 pages, with an additional 200 pages of stuff I had to cut out.

I don't really care too much about what happens, as long as I'm able to defend it in time to submit it at the April 11 deadline.

2007-12-06 06:38:32
197.   Sub4Era
What do you think the odds are of us trading for another arm vs having 5 OF's who could possibly start on other teams. (I know Young is a stretch) Hate to beat a dead horse but I really like Snell :)
2007-12-06 06:39:26
198.   al bundy
A chuckle courtesy of the LA Times: "Jones is believed to like the idea of hitting behind fleet-footed Rafael Furcal and Juan Pierre, which could allow him to drive in more runs."

Just a chuckle. Followed by the dry heaves. No wonder Ned wanted to throw a ton of money at Andruw. The boss never wants to hire someone smarter than him.

This isn't good news. Overpaying a veteran past his prime is business as usual for Ned. Kemp's days as a Dodger are very short, I fear.

2007-12-06 06:42:35
199.   D4P
That brings up a good question.

Is Andruw Jones currently better than Matt Kemp?

2007-12-06 06:43:34
200.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Kempy will stay. Ned Nederlander is committed to Matty. In reality I believe Either is the person gone in this equation. Face it were stuck with J.P.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-06 06:46:59
201.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Let's bring Gagne back for a cheap, heavily incentive laden deal, now is the time to pounce on bringing "game over" back to chavez ravine, he was horrible with the Sox, we can pick him up cheap, i hear he wants to come back to us. We do need to add bull pen depth
2007-12-06 06:47:54
202.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
For everyone who's critical of this deal, I'd like to know what their alternative is? Aaron Rowand? Who supposedly wants five years. Fukudome? Who also wants a long-term deal, and is unproven in MLB? Ethier, and perhaps even Kemp, may be traded later this off-season, but that's all speculation--the fact remains that the only move Ned's made is to give a contract to Jones, which in this market looks quite reasonable. And free agent value is determined not by what we think is reasonable, but what the market will bear. And because we have no OF alternatives on the farm, free agency was the only place where we could upgrade without sacrificing prospects in the process.


2007-12-06 06:48:48
203.   Daniel Zappala
196 Any time you're almost done -- that's good news! I'm assuming a job hunt is in the offing? I hope that goes well for you.
2007-12-06 06:49:10
204.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 201

Ned loves depth, and right now, we have pretty much none when it comes to OFs (I don't think Repko really counts, and Young's too unproven). For that reason, I think we'll probably open the season with Pierre and Ethier both on the roster.


2007-12-06 06:51:38
205.   D4P
I'm assuming a job hunt is in the offing? I hope that goes well for you

You assume correctly, and thanks for the well wishes. I have been encouraged by certain things thus far, but it is still very early in the process I'm a long way from actually getting a job, not to mention one that makes everyone in the household happy.

2007-12-06 06:52:42
206.   old dodger fan
Another nice deal= Pierre (and money) + Broxton + a genuine prospect such as Joshua Bell for the best starting pitcher it will bring.

If it doesn't bring enough keep what we have. Jones takes 15 days off; Ethier takes off 10 as does Kemp and Pierre starts 35 and is our designated bunter and pinch runner the other 127 games.

2007-12-06 06:53:34
207.   Bluebleeder87
really nice write up Jon, I just can't get to exited with an outfield of Pierre, Jones, & Ethier (worst case scenerio) I really hope Ned moves Pierre to the white sox or something. Now, & out field of Ethier (lf) Jones (cf) & Kemp (rf) is pretty dreamy if you ask me.
2007-12-06 06:54:25
208.   Ken Noe
196 I had to get mine ready by x date, or go to my new job as an instructor rather than assistant professor, with a significant difference in salary. It's funny how much you can get done with incentive clauses ;-)
2007-12-06 06:54:34
209.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
I heard Jason Repko is playing winter ball in Mexico right now. Is this true?
2007-12-06 06:55:42
210.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I thought Repko was still rehabbing. Not sure though.


2007-12-06 06:56:03
211.   D4P
vs. RH in 2007:

Jones: .221/.297/.397/.694
Pierre: .301/.338/.372/.710

Maybe a platoon is in order...

2007-12-06 06:56:44
212.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Kempy, Jonesy, and Ethier is making me pretty sweaty right now
2007-12-06 06:57:10
213.   D4P
Didn't know you were in academe.
2007-12-06 06:58:47
214.   uke
211 The most expensive platoon in the history of baseball!
2007-12-06 07:01:21
215.   Ken Noe
213 Like my pal Wayne Hsieh above, I'm an American Civil War historian.
2007-12-06 07:01:46
216.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
"Jason Repko (hamstring surgery, ankle stress fracture) is resting the ankle, but the hamstring is healed."


Man, Repko must have had the worst ankle sprain ever.


2007-12-06 07:02:02
217.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
Face it Neddy, if you want what best for the Dodgers you need to make J.P. the clubhouse go-fer boy and towel boy. He would be fantastic. He would still be wearing the uniform and have a job that will positively impact the clubhouse, thus earning his pay check.
2007-12-06 07:04:25
218.   Daniel Zappala
215 I read a book about the Lincoln assassination for fun this summer. Does that mean you learn how to program in Python in your spare time?
2007-12-06 07:04:58
219.   D4P
I had just ascertained that via The Google.

BTW: Of the 9 positions for which I've applied, UIUC is the best program for what I do. It looks like a cold place to live, and Mrs. D4P is not excited about moving to another relatively small town, but it would be a very good place for me.

2007-12-06 07:05:49
220.   sweepstakes
What's the biggest contract a team has eaten? Basically a guy who's been set free in a multi-year deal due to ineffectiveness, (not relegated to the bench because of injury) Is it Russ Ortiz? I'm wondering because I can't see someone taking Pierre in a trade. And I can't see the Dodgers cutting their losses with 35 mill owed?
2007-12-06 07:05:51
221.   D4P
I read a book about the Lincoln assassination for fun this summer

Do you pull wings off of bats and tear puppies apart too?

2007-12-06 07:06:16
222.   Ken Noe
218 No, I do this in my spare time.
2007-12-06 07:06:41
223.   Marty
Where in the world is UIUC?
2007-12-06 07:07:26
224.   Bob Timmermann
Historian as in "writing long books with footnotes?"
2007-12-06 07:08:18
225.   D4P
Where in the world is UIUC?


2007-12-06 07:08:50
226.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 213

Good luck with the job search D4P. I know how stressful it is.

Re: 215

Ken, if you're bored, here's the webpage of my Vintage baseball team--closest I come to re-enacting. The irony, as I tell my teammates, is I really know next to nothing about baseball history in the 1860s in any academic sense of the term:


2007-12-06 07:09:35
227.   Ken Noe
219 I adored my time in U-C. It's a classic college town. After the first winter, the weather was no problem to me, but then I grew up with snow. Not that much snow, though.
2007-12-06 07:10:29
228.   D4P
Thanks, Wayne. On a related note, my stepdad used to be really into Civil War reenactments, with the uniforms and fake battles and everything.
2007-12-06 07:11:24
229.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 224

Ken's published real books; I, OTOH, am currently trying to get my dissertation into publishable form.


2007-12-06 07:12:32
230.   Marty
Geez, I didn't know UIUC was Illinois.
2007-12-06 07:13:02
231.   Bob Timmermann
Son of a gun...
2007-12-06 07:15:08
232.   D4P
Most people don't refer to it as "UIUC". People I know do so as a way of distinguishing it from UI-Chicago, which also has a somewhat prominent program in my field.
2007-12-06 07:16:57
233.   Ken Noe
224 According to my librarian/wife, footnotes that are much too long.
2007-12-06 07:17:06
234.   Daniel Zappala
Can someone explain why Alfredo Silverio is up for the rule 5 draft? I know we got him out of the Dominican a while ago, but he's had only one season in the GCL as far as I can tell, and did very well. Probably not a good chance we'll lose him?
2007-12-06 07:18:37
235.   Jon Weisman
I do agree with D4P in that the OBP is a concern, because if the power goes the way of Shawn Green or Nomar's, you've lost the key element of his game. I'm counting on a bounceback in health, and with the Dodgers, that's always a little scary.
2007-12-06 07:19:50
236.   Bob Timmermann
I'll check out Ken's books from the library so he can get royalties on them.

You mean it doesn't work that way?

2007-12-06 07:19:51
237.   Hythloday
206 - This is along the lines of what I was thinking, but a bit more limited.

Pierre + $10 million + Blake DeWitt for Noah Lowry. (the NedCo connection is there, it fills a need, and they get a guy they wanted in the first place at a discount.)

And since it's not my money sign Kuroda for 3 and $33.

2007-12-06 07:20:30
238.   Ken Noe
232 The university itself uses UIUC. They're sensitive about annoying Chicago. Locals use U-C or C-U.
2007-12-06 07:22:12
239.   Bob Timmermann
My parents, who grew up in that neck of the woods, especially my father who grew up in Illinois always said "Champaign-Urbana" but the reverse seems to be the favored style.
2007-12-06 07:23:05
240.   Daniel Zappala
231 Excellent. Ken, your book is available at the BYU library. It should be delivered to my office in a couple days, in time for my holiday reading.
2007-12-06 07:28:20
241.   JoeyP
What exactly was Andruw Jones injury last year?

I think this move has alot of upside. Hopefully it works out better than the Jason Schmidt move--which was somewhat similar.

Jones may be only 30 years old, but he could be an "old 30". He's been in the league for a long time.

2007-12-06 07:28:21
242.   Ken Noe
240 You won't find it festive ;-)
2007-12-06 07:28:24
243.   Daniel Zappala
221 I send Urban planners to Utah, land of sprawl and lack of foresight. This is where we build homes for 20,000 people on the other side of a lake, over the course of 10 years, then realize -- whoops -- we forgot to build roads out there!

2007-12-06 07:29:38
244.   Daniel Zappala
242 That's OK. I actually read footnotes and find them interesting.
2007-12-06 07:30:22
245.   JoeyP

Go here D4P to get a look at some of the campus.

2007-12-06 07:30:28
246.   Bob Timmermann
Daniel reads the Chicago Manual of Style to his kids as bedtime stories.
2007-12-06 07:31:16
247.   D4P
My department is looking to hire a senior faculty member. The most recent candidate began his job talk by showing a photo of some young girls holding signs. One said something about zoning being Satanic and the other said "God hates planners".
2007-12-06 07:33:30
248.   CajunDodger
I shouldn't even dignify Rosenthal's uninformed ramblings with a visit to his articles, but here is a nugget for ya:

The next step for the Dodgers, if they are smart, would be to trade Kemp and other young talent for one of the top available starting pitchers — Orioles lefty Erik Bedard or A's righty Dan Haren.

I love that "if they are smart" part. Does he even watch baseball?

2007-12-06 07:34:37
249.   D4P
Thanks, JP. (Hey: that's like Juan Pierre!)

I was actually looking for a UIUC webcam the other day but couldn't find a functional one.

2007-12-06 07:35:27
250.   Bob Timmermann
He watched the Cubs-Rockies playoff series last year.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-12-06 07:35:28
251.   LAbits
196 Of course, you're saving what advisor told you to cut out for when you are told at the last minute that chapters 5,6 need to be beefed up. It's happened more than once, not to me, just people I've met. Have fun with that thing!

208 Assistant Professor salary is part of why I didn't stay in science. I hope its gone up relatively since then!

On the Dodger front, the ESPN Baseball today podcast for 12/5 mentioned that Texas has an interest in Pierre. Not saying that means anything imminent, just a data point. Not sure if Pascarelli or Gammons was the source.

2007-12-06 07:41:21
252.   Jon Weisman
I'm reading all the footnotes in The Story of Modern Skiing!
2007-12-06 07:41:36
253.   Sam DC
Did the Dodgers take or lose anyone in the R5?
2007-12-06 07:42:05
254.   Sam DC
Where's Canuck's liveblog?
2007-12-06 07:43:51
255.   Daniel Zappala
In the AAA phase: "the Reds take Juan Apodaca from the Dodgers system" ... from Baseball America.
2007-12-06 07:43:58
256.   uke
251 Pierre to Texas? Perfect!
2007-12-06 07:44:29
257.   Sam DC

Dodgers did not take anyone.
They lost Wright, as Canuck predicted.

No one took Nate's guy, Lubanski, or Eric Duncan.

Wasn't Duncan once almost our replacement for Adrian Beltre?

2007-12-06 07:44:56
258.   CanuckDodger
And as I expected, the Dodgers lose LHP Wesley Wright in the Rule 5 draft. The Astros grabbed him. We didn't lose anybody else in the MLB portion of the draft. The minor league portion is going on now.
2007-12-06 07:46:30
259.   JoeyP
Wasnt Apodaca like the only catching depth the Dodgers had in the minors?
2007-12-06 07:47:43
260.   uke
What's up with Torre's knee surgery?
2007-12-06 07:47:47
261.   jones2929
Anyone listening to live coverage of the Rule 5 draft on XM channel 175? Stuff like this makes XM fantastic.
2007-12-06 07:50:35
262.   JoeyP
257--No, Duncan was only in Single A when the Dodgers were thinking about him. He's a former 1st rounder, had success at Single A, and Double A, but has completely flopped at AAA.

I'm surprised the Yankees left him unprotected. But I guess it didnt matter.

2007-12-06 07:51:57
263.   CanuckDodger
259 -- No, we've got Lucas May and Carlos Santana at catcher, though they aren't great prospects (but neither was Apodaca). May is actually using up a 40-man roster spot that could have been used to protect Wesley Wright.
2007-12-06 07:52:00
264.   adamclyde
as always, I'm late to the discussion. I'd blame it on being on the East Coast, but that should mean I'm first to them...

Anyhow, here's my question (and this has probably been discussed ad nauseum). How much trade value does Pierre really have? Like everyone here, I hope (that's not a strong enough word) they keep Kemp. But it seems that this past season has exposed Pierre's one dimensional skills more than in the past.

I realize his stats aren't all that much of a deviation from the norm, but - and maybe just because he's now with the dodgers and I pay a lot more attention - it seems that he's fairly widely viewed for what he is... Decent average, but low OBP. No power, below average defense. Is there left in MLB a 2006 Coletti who would be willing to take on his contract or trade anything meaningful?

2007-12-06 07:55:30
265.   Terry A
264 - Doubtful. But "meaningful" at this point just means we find someone to take him for the next four years.

The depressing part of the Jones deal is that two years from now we could have no Jones, no Kemp, and two more years of Pierre.

Like many others here, I applaud the Jones move, but my opinions of Colletti hinge greatly on what happens next.

2007-12-06 08:02:00
266.   still bevens
258 Its our comeuppance for stealing Houlton from them.
2007-12-06 08:03:24
267.   Penarol1916
239. Everyone in Chicago still calls it Champaign-Urbana, in fact if most people feel the need to specify beyond just saying U of I, they will call it Illinois- Champaign. Even the professors I knew there never referred to it as UIUC unless it was in an academic setting. I really don't understand how hard it would have been to type out an understandable name rather than UIUC and then when someone asked not just saying what it was instead of putting a web address.
2007-12-06 08:19:11
268.   D4P
Rule 14: From now on, abbreviations are not allowed. UCLA will be written out as The University of California at Los Angeles. OPS will be written out as On-base Percentage Plus Slugging. ERA will be written out as Earned Run Average. VORP will be written out as Value Over Replacement Player. EQA will be written out as Equivalent Average. AAA will be written out as A A A. D4P will be written out as The Trade In Which The Dodgers Aquired Delino DeShields In Exchange For Pedro Martinez. Etcetera.
2007-12-06 08:20:04
269.   LogikReader
Mornin' all

Wow, people on ESPN Radio right now are not high on the Andruw Jones signing. Figures. The guy on right now is like what would happen if Plaschke had his own radio show.

Now I remember why I was initially reluctant to an Andruw Jones signing: I assumed that management would revive the Kemp/Ethier platoon. Provided that either Ethier or Kemp can play full time, I can put that worry to rest.

2007-12-06 08:21:08
270.   Disabled List
Here's a Dodger-related blurb from John Donovan's latest dispatch. The piece is about is about how "untouchable" prospects from many teams have suddenly become available in some hypothetical deals. He mentions six teams as examples, then holds the Dodgers out as exceptions:

If there's one team that has stuck to its young guns this winter, it's the Dodgers. General manager Ned Colletti has had plenty of interest in a core of fantastic young players. Matt Kemp, Jonathan Broxton, Chad Billingsley, Clayton Kershaw, James Loney and Andy LaRoche all have been mentioned, at one time or another, in different trade scenarios.

So far, Colletti has resisted the urge to break up the family. The price, in his mind, has been way too high. And it's hard to argue with his logic.

"You fill a one-year need with a tremendous player," he told L.A.-area reporters on Tuesday night, "and look around and have three more needs to fill. I'm not sure how you gain ..."

2007-12-06 08:22:27
271.   ImprobableImpossible
Love the signing, but I don't think we should all insist on Pierre getting traded. Why not go into the season with more than three potential starting outfielders? It's the same reason any team realistically needs more than five starting pitchers when you get into the season.

The problem is this insistence that Pierre plays every day. If Torre can use him wisely -- part-time starting, 300-400 ABs, some pinch-running and pinch-bunting -- then he's valuable. Grossly overpaid, but valuable.

2007-12-06 08:26:06
272.   Terry A
270 - Maybe we hold out hope that Logan White does indeed have McCourt's ear regarding the young talent, and Colletti won't be allowed to deal any of them.

Or maybe, just maybe, Colletti has learned something from his numerous poor decisions.

2007-12-06 08:28:01
273.   fiddlestick
Ned Coletti does not make out the lineup card. He hired supermanager Joe Torre to do that. If Joe Torre wants to win, he'll play the best players on the roster, regardless of their contractual status.
It's been noted that Torre had odd fetished for guys like Tony Womack and Enrique Wilson, but when you are fielding the type of lineup and pitching staff that Torre had when he was playing those guys, you can afford to do things like that.
Torre's margin for error is far smaller with this team and if he's as bright and respected as he's billed, he'll figure out pretty quickly who he needs to play and who he needs to bench.

If Jim Tracy can play Jason Phillips at 1B despite what his boss prefers, Joe Torre can play anyone but Pierre.

2007-12-06 08:28:39
274.   Vishal
okay, i'll say it.

D4P is gloomy gus.

2007-12-06 08:31:28
275.   ryu
126 , 128 is right.
2007-12-06 08:31:28
276.   Bob Timmermann
There's no "at" in UCLA's full name.

It's the University of California, Los Angeles.

All of the UCs have that format. Berkeley finally adopted the comma after several years of insisting on "at." I went to the "University of California at Berkeley."

That was after not wanting to use Berkeley in the name for a long time.

2007-12-06 08:33:32
277.   Bob Timmermann
Don't say his real name. The magic will be gone.
2007-12-06 08:34:36
278.   D4P
I really don't understand how hard it would have been to type out The Trade In Which The Dodgers Aquired Delino DeShields In Exchange For Pedro Martinez is gloomy gus.
2007-12-06 08:36:11
279.   Gen3Blue
268 I'm not sure I ever knew what D4P stood for but its a terrific tag, albeit a horrible point in Dodger history.
2007-12-06 08:36:43
280.   Vishal
247 wait, you study planning?
2007-12-06 08:37:16
281.   D4P
It's the University of California, Los Angeles

But that requires fewer characters. It's too easy to type...!

2007-12-06 08:38:42
282.   D4P
You speak the truty.
2007-12-06 08:39:27
283.   Vishal
282 i find myself working in planning. well, airport planning. i didn't study it, though.
2007-12-06 08:39:30
284.   ryu
276 Berkeley was not happy when the Southern Branch campus of the Univ. of California decided to call itself U.C.L.A.
2007-12-06 08:41:37
285.   Jon Weisman
Two new posts up top.
2007-12-06 08:41:38
286.   Bob Timmermann
Berkeley is not happy about a lot of things regarding its bigger, younger, better looking brother down south.
2007-12-06 08:42:43
287.   Gen3Blue
Someone was wondering about our tolerance for cutting are losses ealier. O. Perez would have to be high on the list. I guess Driefforts contract wouldn't count, being mostly due to injury.
2007-12-06 08:42:48
288.   D4P
airport planning

For future or existing airports?

2007-12-06 08:43:13
289.   Gen3Blue
sorry are=our.
2007-12-06 08:43:57
290.   Vishal
286 better looking

the campus and surrounding area? no.

the student body? well, sure.

2007-12-06 08:44:16
291.   Vishal
288 an existing one.
2007-12-06 08:44:25
292.   StolenMonkey86
278 - it's like how they didn't like writing out Mientkiewicz at Bronx Banter. But since you typed it yourself, I can copy and paste to give you:

The Trade In Which The Dodgers Aquired Delino DeShields In Exchange For Pedro Martinez is gloomy gus.

Or would it be more accurate to say

The Guy Who Uses the Handle The Trade In Which The Dodgers Aquired Delino DeShields In Exchange For Pedro Martinez is gloomy gus.

2007-12-06 08:46:46
293.   D4P
What kind of planning needs to be done? Acquiring more land for expansion?
2007-12-06 08:49:35
294.   autumnlanding
sometimes its really frustrating reading this blog. why would ned ever trade kemp loney or ethier? he couldnt trade kemp because hes the obvious rising star of the dodgers, to shed him now for ANYONE left on the block is ridiculous. I mean, even for Haren or Santana, its a horrible deal. Ethier is good trade bait, but he's ned's BEST acquisition and to shed him over pierre just doesnt make any sense. Loney is Coletti's pet project, he loves sending him bats, bases, and snoopy valentines. they aren't going anywhere.

we should trade pierre to a team with a couple solid middle relief pitchers, because i along with others suspect broxton and his lack of an effective third pitch isnt going to be the stud we thought he would be. we should eat as much as his salary as it takes to keep the lineups we've all suggested above. we have a core, its awesome, its exciting, its hopeful. some people are just complete wacko's on this site who fantasize about idiotic trades to Tampa Bay that make no sense.

2007-12-06 08:56:44
295.   Daniel Zappala
My heartfelt sympathies to anyone involved in planning for the expansion of LAX.
2007-12-06 09:04:26
296.   Vishal
293 hah! that's not gonna happen. this airport is extremely land-constricted, and i'm pretty sure it would take massive delays before the public approves of the measures needed (more runways) to accommodate growing demand. what we do for the most part is plan facility changes within the existing footprint of the airport property. take into account demand forecasts and program requirements, and see how those needs can be addressed. right now our biggest project is a 10-12 year long terminal redevelopment. we're also looking at redesigning some of our cargo facilities, enhancing runway safety areas, things like that.
2007-12-06 09:27:41
297.   SG6
From what I've read and calculated, OBP and SLG are very close in terms of correlation with run production, bested by OPS. The reason OBP gets more "limelight" is because it was undervalued as Moneyball revealed. SLG was really never undervalued, power was always valued.

For the 2007 NL season, OBP and SLG had a .9 correlation, with OPS at .95 (1 being perfect). BA came in less than .7.

My friend (Braves fan) thinks Andruw's contract year really hurt his performance in terms of BA - he really tried too hard at the plate, overswinging and not being selective.

2007-12-06 10:04:30
298.   MJW101
59 I have the current 2008 Dodgers salary at about $108.321M plus $3.15M in non-roster salary owed for a total of @$111.471M which is about $8.7M less than the final 2007 salary total.

The $8.7M margin is not enough to sign a quality FA pitcher such as Kuroda so I would assume a high salaried player would have to be traded.

Kemp, Ethier or LaRoche would not make much of a dent in the salary picture. Pierre $8M/Loaiza $7M, on the other hand, would free a nice chunk of change to help finance a quality FA pitcher, plus some fancy backup PVL.

Of course, this is based upon the assumption that Frank does not open his wallet a little wider.

2007-12-06 11:27:41
299.   sweepstakes
Let's say it's trade Ethier or trade Kemp. I'd rather keep Kemp, not that I don't want Ethier around, I do . . . but with Druw's arrival I'm preparing myself for the departure of a youngster; believe it's more likely one of them over Pierre. Does Ethier have enough value to be the centerpiece of a trade that garners high-end talent? He's certainly worth more than a middle reliever. Thoughts . . .
2007-12-06 11:33:17
300.   sweepstakes
It's nuts how people are saying last year really hurt Druw's contract this year. A salary in the top ten can harldy be called painful. Then again, if he had posted similar numbers to '05 and '06 during this past season, Boras would have been pushing for Arod money. This market . . . crazy, weird, wild wacky, nutty, zany, kooky.
2007-12-06 11:48:08
301.   Brent T
Wanna-Be Editor's Correction:

Doesn't the expression "cut bait" simply mean idling? I think you were looking to say "cut ties", but maybe that seemed trite.

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