Yes.

Absolutely. I was getting excited last night about Andruw Jones, and my wife groaned at me and said "oh no, it's starting in December this year? I thought we had a rule that you couldn't start obsessing until after January 1..."

It would be really nice.

Any of you guys have Tivo? can you store old games for a long time for your viewing pleasure in a later time (like today?) if that's the way Tivo works I want one...

I feel like I want a few things resolved in the line-up and outfield situation before the game, but I probably won't even get that by April, so YES!

I've got my DVD of 9/18/2006 (the 4+1game)to deal with such needs…

A toaster pick-up league?

How's the weather in LA, today? It's been raining non stop for 4 days in Paris.

Soon Noah's ark will be arriving to take some passengers. (hopefully?) I'll try and save a spot for Juan Pierre.

It sure would!

I've saved the Dodgers game hosting the Giants from September 28 on Tivo. Not the same, however it's great to see the faces like Hu and LaRoche in with our other youngsters from this year.

7

Juan Pierre ... is everywhere.

Let's play 2.

The weather in L.A. is nice right now. It rained all day yesterday. Chilly for here, about 45 degrees where I am.

How about a mock spring training game?

Starting lineup:

SS-Hu
2B-Abreu
1B-Loney
CF-Kemp
C-Martin
3B-LaRoche
RF-Ethier
LF-D. Young
SP-Bills

Play ball!

11

I guess it depends on what part you live in because were I'm at it only rained midnight friday & that's it. I hope it doesn't rain anymore cause I've got a game tomorrow.

another thing is that HOPEFULLY the field ain't to damaged from the rain or else we could kiss this sundays game good bye, sigh.

I'm going to "out" myself here and not make too many friends, but ... I'm a bigger football fan than baseball. I do love my Dodgers though.

The Hot Stove rumors ... plus football and college basketball ... can hold me over until ST.

There's a ballgame at 2:00 (Eastern) if you have ESPN Deportes. Top two teams in the Dominican Winter League facing off.

From the previous thread, Kngoworld wrote: "Jon, I know it is said over and over again how great of a site Dodger Thoughts is and how wonderful of a job you do in keeping it up, but it cannot be said enough, this community truly is a priceless gift."

Well said. Dodger Thoughts is a great site, Jon, thank you. I've been a Dodger fan all my years, since about when the team moved west... Only here on DT for the last year or so. Thanks.

Kinbote, sure you can call me "Gr-ool." I know it's a bit funky. It was inspired by another DT user name or two I found amusing.

A game today? Ok, you got one.
via my simulator with 2008 projection stats.

Diamondbacks vs Dodgers
SS-Furcal 0-4
C-Martin 1-4, walk, single
RF-Kemp 0-2, 2 walks
CF-Jones 2-4, 2 singles, 1 run
1B-Loney 1-4, double, rbi, run
2B-Kent 1-4, single, rbi, run
LF-Ethier 1-4, single
3B-LaRoche 2-3, single, HR, 2 rbi, run
P - Billingsley 1-3, single

Billingsley - 9IP, 5 hits, 1 HR, 8Ks, 3BBs

Webb - 4IP, 7 hits, 1HR, 4K, 2BB

HR - La Roche, Snyder.

Dodgers win 4-1
0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0
0-0-0-4-0-0-0-0-X

vr, Xei

15
I guess you love your lower division college football because that's the only game in town.

The Final Eight in the NCAA women's volleyabll play off today.

BYU at Penn State
Nebraska vs Cal at Madison, WI
USC vs Texas at Gainesville, FL
UCLA at Stanford

Stanford features Pac-10 player of the year Foluke Akinradewo, who has a really cool name to say. I doubt UCLA will win a game from Stanford tonight.

12 I like it. That's kind of close to the team the Dodgers fielded on September 28. And Vin just intoned, after a fine play by LaRoche at 3rd, "Another gem defensively turned in by Andy LaRoche. Boy he can pick it over there, in the hot corner."

OK gang, we all love this site and all the work Jon has done to keep it the best area on the tubes to talk Dodger baseball and just about any other subject. And it's that time of the year where some of us get into the giving spirit.

One way to show your appreciation is to click on the little PayPal button on the side bar and make a donation to the site. I will match anyone's contribution up to $200 total for the next two weeks. I want no one to feel any pressure to contribute. We all have different priorities and situations, so if you don't want to, that is perfectly fine.

But for those who do contribute, send me an email at mleadman@charter.net telling me how much you donated. At the end of the two weeks, I'll match whatever total we have up to the aforementioned $200.

Thanks in advance!

I was looking for Jon's Dodger rotation breakdown in the last thread... Did I somehow just miss it? Maybe Jon's planning to do that one later? :-)

www.whatifsports.com/hbd

I am not responsible for broken marriages.

Jon:

I am back in the game. Is there any more room on the DT roster for next season? What numbers are available?

Trading Ethier would be a mistake, BTW, though not a fatal one. Trading Ethier instead of Pierre, however, means Plaschke wins.

On NPR's "Weekend Edition Saturday" Scott Simon had a piece on O'Malley's election to the HOF. It's pretty fair about the Brooklyn departure.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17044227

The sun is out in the soggy Pacific Northwest, though it is too cold for baseball. One winter I went to Arizona in November to see the Arizona Fall League. It seemed really strange to be sitting in the stands watching baseball that time of year. I remember seeing Nomar and Michael Jordan play. The only guy who was in the Dodger organization at the time who I remember seeing play was Ron Coomer.

Stan from Tacoma

20
I'm rooting for BYU.

18 who'd billingsley give up the homer to?

20 half the teams are from the pac-10, wow. needless to say, go bears. :)

24 how exactly does that work?

30 , ah, the page loaded funny, so i didn't see the tabs at the top of the screen.

I will certainly donate to this here establishment as soon as I have a pot to...Well, you know.

Around December 28th. Straight PayPal, Homey.

Radiohead's show in Amsterdam is now sold out. I didn't pull the trigger on the tickets either. There's always eBay. It is a GA show, those tickets usually are a bit less expensive on the secondary market since you aren't guaranteed a seat.

There are three or four that say there are serious about going. Anybody else? Show is July 1st.

24
WhatIf actually got me into fantasy sports five years ago. We held a mini-season of basketball, then I moved on to baseball with an all-Reds team vs. my brother's all-Cubs team.

I have been a fantasy geek ever since.

Congratulations to the new coach of the Navy football team: Ken Niumatalolo.

So the first Pacific Islander football head coach in Division I. Will there be an Asian head coach?

"Mr. Chow, Mr. Guerrero on line two...."

No cares about my free agent news if it's not in rebus form I guess

35 I knew he was going to be the interim coach for the bowl game, but did the Academy pull the trigger and remove the adjective?

37 Never mind. Yes, it did, if the Seattle P-I is to be believed.

http://tinyurl.com/yrkcg9

apparently Gagne is going to the Brewers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-gagnebrewers120807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

28 , it's on then!

Pretty sure I saw this posted in one of the last few threads but if anyone is looking for more Dodger-centric content today...try The Dugout:

http://tinyurl.com/2rknol

39 40
I was prophetic in 35 , but what do you expect from someone who attends the unnamed school in the Pac-10 with the basketball coach taking a year off at AGE 73 to get a divorce.

I would prefer to trade JP, Abreu and Orenduff to Baltimore for Brian Roberts. JP could replace Corey Patterson and Abreu replaces Roberts. Orenduff strengthens a weak staff.

Roberts is younger than Tejada and a better all around hitter (a better #2 than JP).

Kent and $3M to Texas for Blalock. If Kent retires give them Blalock back and let them keep the money. Otherwise, trade Blalock to Milw/Phil/FM/LAAAA/Stl etc. for prospects.

The offense may take a slight hit with Roberts over Kent, however, the defense would improve 1000%.

SS Furcal S
2B Roberts S
C Martin R
1B Loney L
CF Jones R
RF Kemp R
LF Ethier L
3B LaRoche R

Could flip Loney & Jones and LaRoch & Ethier.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but Jon, you got a shout out in Rob Neyer's blog yesterday. He referred to your round up of the Jones signing as 'great'. I love the idea of shipping Pierre & $9 mil to the Pale Hose for Contreras. A salary dump that could end up helping both clubs. Let's just hope the Rangers sign Rowland.

Seems to me that a team with LaRoche and Nomar has no need for Blalock.

Or Nomar.

43 Pretty sure Baltimore isn't going to want to trade away their best player for a salary dump a B and a C- prospect.

46 That should be second best hitter.

It would be even nicer if there were a baseball game today.

Subjunctive police hit and run ...

Yes, I am ready for the pitchers and catchers to report today.

45
LOL

My Astros research is posted in the previous thread, if anyone is interested. Im not sure how some of those bottom guys rank prospect wise, but they all had at least three starts in the bigs last year.

In my mock spring training game today as we visit the Detriot team, Kershaw, Elbert, Wade, Troncoso, Orenduff, Miller, Meloan, Mcdonald, and Brazoban each throw an inning to the Tigers projected opening day line up and combine for a no hit shutout.

48
Jon doesn't believe in hypotheticals, so he eschews the subjunctive.

53
But what if Jon did believe in hypotheticals...?

43- Angelos loves Roberts. I think it's safe to say it ain't happening.

Is eschewing improved if there's a generous portion of A-1 sauce added to it?

Hey, Linkmeister, how's the Warrior's basketball team? My 49ers are on the islands this weekend for a game...

I voted yesterday.
I was able to vote again today.

If we all wrote in Latin here we would be arguing "gerund or gerundive".

57 which warrior's team? the ultimate warrior? he has a basketball team?

(hey, if there can be a subjunctive police, there can be a pluralizing-with-an-apostrophe police, right?) :)

Plaschke makes a bit of sense for keeping Pierre, but he should give weight to retaining Pierre as a 4th outfielder. Setting aside the salary, Pierre would be a pretty good extra outfielder. Tony Jackson makes a good case today for why Andruw could use 15-20 starts off. He's carried an extreme workload, not to mention a few extra pounds. Pierre could pick up 3-4 starts in CF per month, which should benefit Andruw. Also think he could spell Furcal now and then atop the lineup -- keeping Furcal fresher. As a PH, he should be decent. As a PR, he'd be about as good as there is. Have Pierre pick up another 15-20 starts in left. In the end, he gets 160-180 at-bats and gives you a fallback if Andruw gets hurt.

If another club loses its CF to injury, season, maybe you find a taker for Pierre. If Pierre is the high-character guy we hear him to be, he probably will accept a fourth OF assignment without allowing his frustration to hurt the team.

I'd also tell Pierre that if he intends to win more playing time, he needs to devote all of his spring training ABs to taking as many pitches as possible -- literally go to two strikes in every spring-training AB, unless the pither is incapable of throwing two strikes. He's got to become more comfortable with allowing the count to reach two strikes. The prospect of being a bench player should add teeth to the suggestion.

I will try to vote again tomorrow.

I don't buy the idea, advanced by Plaschke and Rosenthal, that the Dodgers need to go for it in 2008, even if means sacrificing Kemp, who appears to be Plaschke's favorite trade chip. Keep reading that because Torre is the manager, the Dodgers should be more inclined to "go for it" now. Torre is under contract for three years. Think he would want Kemp on his team in 2009 and 2010? Kemp might be a very good hitter at that stage. Given that basketball was his primary sport just 4-5 years ago -- he didn't even participate in showcase baseball events -- Kemp, in baseball terms, is even younger than his age. He's pretty far ahead of the curve.

And who's to say Kershaw won't be as good as Bedard in two years?

If the Dodgers believe Kuroda would be a solid No. 3 and can get him for three years, the Dodgers have a pretty good blend and very good depth on the rotation. And you'd take some development pressure off the advanced pitching prospects. McDonald gets to go Triple-A. Elbert gets time to bounce back from the shoulder operation. And there's less pressure to bring up Kershaw, who needs to throw more strikes.

If anyone else is interested, we can make up a game right now. How about Opening Day 2008? I'll start it, feel free to jump in or ignore it. I need to take my kids to Chuck E. Cheese, so I won't be around for a few hours. Maybe this will be fun, maybe it will be dumb.

BTW, I'd trade Slappy straight up for whoever is in the mouse suit today. No physicals required.

Here goes:

Vin : "Good afternoon everybody, wherever you may be. And welcome to Dodger Stadium for the opening day match-up between the San Francisco Giants sans Barry Bonds, and your Los Angeles Dodgers. Taking the mound for the Dodgers today is...."

Next?

61
Pierre is a good player.
Pierre has alot of great qualities.
Pierre wants to start every game.
He deserves the opportunity to do that, somewhere else.

63
Is it unreasonable to assume that you are going for it all with this team?

Furcal
Martin
Jones
Kemp
Loney
Kent
Ethier
LaRoche

Penny
Lowe
Billingsley
Kuroda
Schmidt/Loaiza/Kershaw

57 So far, they're not so good, but I suspect they'll get better as the season goes along. One of their starters missed the first four games, and I think they're now 2-4 on the season. They've got six straight home games coming up, which ought to help.

60
I can't imagine how crazy the Ultimate Warrior's basketball team would be.

http://tinyurl.com/3bnuoq

68 Thanks for just wasting the last 20 minutes of my life. I watched that clip and ended up watching Iron Sheik clips. Can someone tell me why Iron Sheik doesn't have his own reality show yet?

-63

Going for it all? Probably not, but that team definitely should contend for first place and could give Ned a lot of trade leverage in July. In the view of the Plaschkes and Rosenthals, I don't think it would be construed as going for it all. And that's one of my points. They seem to forget that Torre will be here in 2009 and 2010, too.

It's a pretty good looking lineup, by the way. A bigger view of the organizational depth, if you plug in Kuroda and I get my wish of Pierre as a No. 4 outfielder:

Starting pitchers above Single-A with solid or better upside:

McDonald (No. 3), Elbert (No. 3), Kershaw (No. 1/2) -- and time for each of them to get a little more needed development.

Behind LaRoche you have Nomar.
Behind Furcal you have Hu and DeJesus.
Behind Kent you have Abreu.
Behind Loney you have Nomar.
Behind Ethier you have Pierre.
Behind Jones you have Pierre.
Behind Kemp you have Ethier with Pierre and D. Young moving to LF.
Behind Saito you have Broxton.
Behind Broxton you have Meloan.

Need a little more upside among relief prospects, which may be where Morris comes in. Would shop for more middle relievers, cheap ones. Get a decent No. 2 catcher whose left-handed bat is at least a threat. Work on finding a CF prospect, a C prospect to plug into the pipeline.

Organizationally, the Dodgers would be in better shape than quite some time. Disappointing, though, to read that Ethier may be swapped for middle relief.

67 - hmmm, might be a good game then. The Beach only had one guy back from last year and it's been a rough start for them, they've shown flashes, but it's going to be a rough year.

Grammarians: Is it proper to have a single subsection inside a section of a paper? I have always assumed that if you make one subsection, you have to have at least two.

Jayson Stark on ESPN Insider:
http://tinyurl.com/2wd4s6

"Los Angeles Dodgers
The Dodgers could start the year with the roster they have, and if they're willing to be patient with Andy LaRoche at third base, they'd have a strong club.

They could use an upgrade in the rotation over Esteban Loaiza and/or some Jason Schmidt insurance, and it would help if they moved Juan Pierre off the roster to ensure that he doesn't steal playing time from Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier, but they don't have any positions that are open without acceptable in-house options."

Agreed.

That's funny about Gagne. I don't know why on earth they got Torres and I'm not sure who I'd rather have least: Mota, Turnbow, or Torres.

My kid is definitely on the mend already, though it was hard to hear him struggling to breath.

Stan, I saw Jordan play with the Barons in Knoxville at the old Bill Meyer stadium. That was amusing. I had a lot of good times there. We used to see Bob Kesling (now Radio voice of the Tennessee Vols football) there everynight sometimes already in make up so he could go straight to the studio.

73 was by Keith Law, not Stark...apologies.

stop trading with the devil rays

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Rays-could-offer-Dodgers-pitching-for-Ethier;_ylt=AllEgHm5tsAJTzSBcC03yqU5nYcB?urn=mlb,56803

76 Please use tinyurl. See www.tinyurl.com.

plus that link doesnt even work 76

75 psh, if it's keith law, then whatever. he doesn't even have a BBWAA certification; what does he know? :)

69
Because it would be the most offensive thing on television.

59 If we all wrote in Latin, I would hope that we would know the difference between a gerund and a gerundive. I can't perceive of the grounds on which such an argument would exist. But I would be freaking out if someone tried to make a nominative gerund.

72 It just seems kind of silly. Why not just re-name the section to whatever the sub-section was?

79 I had that joke all queued up before I refreshed.

25 - Sure, just find the roster thread with positions and add yourself in.

48 - You're right.

81 Well, I often see students do this:

1. Introduction

- some text describing the problem they want to solve -

1.1 Subsection

- detail on a particular aspect of the introduction.

I also see this with other sections of the paper. I always tell them that if they have two ideas, then have an introductory paragraph and two subsections. It strikes me as poor organization to have one idea referenced by the section title and a second idea referenced by a subsection title.

UCLA is getting whooped. Not getting the ball inside and Davidson is just on fire.

83 - I always remember that when outlining a paper before you write it, if you had an a) or a 1), you had better have a b) or a 2)

BYU lost to Michigan State, after being up by 10 at halftime. Bleah.

85 That's what I was taught, too.

I'm supposed to be putting an alternator back in my car, but I just can't muster up the motivation. Vin on Tivo makes it seem sunny even when it isn't. The whole memory thing. We got our tree from the Boy Scouts today and the smell of hay made me think of cleaning stalls. I love how smells can bring such powerful memories back.

does somebody wanna show me a comparison between Joba and Billz?

i get lost tryin to sort my way through those stat sites.

thanks!

84 This game has a Tournament feel doesn't it?

Nice way the Bruins closed out the final 5 minutes of the half.

The Iron Sheik videos are crazy. I came across them a couple of months ago. Sounds like he's lived a very, very, VERY colorful life.

I just got out of the hospital after a one-week bout of pneumococcal pneumonia (I think that is what it is; sounds pleonastic), and looking at the title of the thread I wondered "what is Bob T going to do about the missing subjunctive?" Sure enough, proper diction overcame holiday charity. My fault for moving from Beverly Hills to Berkeleyl
I agree with the plurality DT view and, I guess, Keith Law: Andruw is a good move; now, if we can move Pierre to the Pale Hose for something North of a bag of balls, give Laroche a real shot at 3B, and sign Kuroda, we keep all the kids and have a decent shot at the division.

I know I'm grinding the axe, but the D's have more than enough middle relief in their system, one just shouldn't trade anything for middle relievers except middle relievers. I admit I was pleased with Procter, but any time he could turn into a Baez or Hamulack.

Chad Billingsley (23)

2007: 147/64/141/138
2006: 90/58/59/118
AAA: 71/32/78/3.93 ERA
2005: 146/50/162/3.51 ERA

Joba Chamberlain (22)

2007: 24/6/39/192
Between A and AAA: 88.1/27/135/2.45

Joba started at Nebraska and had some injury concerns heading into the draft, on the other hand you have Billingsley who has almost no injury history. Overall Joba is more of a power pitcher than Bills, who imo has a much deeper arsenal with the differant fastballs he posseses. Finesse doesnt come in to the conversation thats for sure.

76 If the D-Rays are interested in trading with us again...make this a good one...Ethier, JP, T. Abreu, MacDonald or Elbert, and give them Hendy back also for Scott Kazmir and Rocco Baldelli

I forgot to add Bills 05 was AA Jacksonville.

94
lol i guess i should have clarified...
when i said i get lost...all those numbers are what lose me...i dont know what they are....
thanks for tryin to help though, i appreciate it.

And also forgot to mention Bills was drafted out of high school. Done.

If the Dodgers, ie, Colletti-ot, give up Ethier for some chump middle innings guy, I vow to never watch this team again until he's gone.
Try to follow this, Ned- you screwed up with Pierre, now come to grips with it and move on. If you get rid of a very serviceable kid with a decent upside for the simple purpose of forcing Torre to have your 45 million dollar albatross in the line-up every day, you are an irresponsible gm that has no place being employed. The idea is to put your BEST team on the field, Ned- sorry for you, but that doesn't include Pierre.

The Mighty Golden Silverhawks* of Davidson are a heck of a team. I'd hate to see them come tourney time.

*May not be actual name.

Ok, thats innings pitched, walks, strikeouts, ERA+ for the majors, and regular old ERA for the minors. Id have to say if Bills pitched for NY or Boston we would be hearing his name quite a bit. Just imagine, and Kershaw would be invincible to trade rumors for the best pitcher in the game just like Buchholz!

100
Wildcats.

Just like the unnamed school in Tucson.

102 didn't you just name them right there?

102 Wildcats also name of that fictitious High School in Albuquerque. Only if you are forced to watch Disney Channel.

103
I didn't say the name of the school.

The real names are never as good as the made up names.

In any event, congratulations to the Fighting Unicorns of Davidson on a game well played.

99 No kidding.

The thing with young ball players is you never quite know their upside. Like a Jeff Bagwell for eg. Ethier could develop into a reliable .300/.375/.500 LH bat for years.

Anybody know how much it costs to have a water heater replaced?

85 I often see unneeded subsections when the writer is too lazy to come up with a decent transition.

I think Jon answers the question quite well.

Anyone else going to watch the Hatton/Mayweather fight?

110 (Raises hand)

You guys think Ricky has a chance?

110
Yes, he has a chance. Mayweather is definitely going to want to keep him at a distance and use his reach and try to win a decision. Hatton is going to push the pace and have to punish Mayweather with some shots. Who knows what happens if Mayweather eats some good shots.

I think this fight is either a decision win for Mayweather or a knockout for Hatton.

111 If it's in the script.

Andre Ethier for AL Reyes?.....no GM would ever do that....talk about a stupid rumor....these writers really are something...

Really it doesn't matter. There is plenty of baseball(talk)) going around. The only thing that bothers me is all that football & basketball on ESPN and other sports shows.

MC Safety

thanks...i just saw that Joba was ESPN's NEXT athlete and was wondering how Billz compared.

thanks again

114 It's a better trade than Konerko for Shaw.

Marty, it costs too much. I highly recommend looking into the newer electric on demand water heaters.

118 I have a good plumber who doesn't charge an arm and a leg. They just came out an replaced some calcified valve for $170. It was worth it.

I discovered it because I noticed that I had condensation on all my windows inside the house and even the walls were wet. My heater is underneath the house. I went down and hot water was coming out at a good rate and gathering in a pool. I basically was on top of a sauna. I think its been going on for a couple days. I'm very observant obviously.

But I do want to look into the new electric ones. I have friends with them and they love it.

110 111

I think he has an outside chance if he lance a good shot but Mayweather is just bloody genius & super quick, it should be a good boxing match though.

I was supposed to go to Vegas this weekend to watch the fight on closed circuit at the MGM Grand. The whole trip basically fell apart because everyone involved had work, school or no money so thats unfortunate. It would have been amazing to witness thousands of drunken british folk cheer on their hero. It might also have gotten a bit dicey if he loses. Should be interesting to see what happens.

It's pretty frustrating watching the undercards when such a great fight is waiting in the wings.

88 I love how smells can bring such powerful memories back.

Wait'll you try madeleines.

Make sure you have a lot of paper to write everything down.

I have gradually come to notice that by being surrounded by Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw, Ethier has been seriously undervalued. On top of his talent, he is a top shelf character guy, and a solid starting outfielder. He also seems to have a good arm and outstanding defensive insticts. While not having the upside of Kemp, he may have an equal or better career.
He would be the true tradgedy to give up for less than value, and this would show the front office to be truly incompetant.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ethier hits a solid 20+ dingers & 90+ RBI with a good OB% & a nice BA. Of course he has to play everyday to do that though.

ps I really really hope NedCo dumps Pierre somewhere in Chicago.

Ethier right now is very average offensively (.284/.350/.452 versus .277/.347/.453 for the average left fielder), and his defense makes him an above average player. However, the Dodgers are stocked with good players, and since Ethier has the lowest ceiling, he's the most likely to go to make room for a better player. Our offense is very, very scary next year, and replacing Ethier seems like the best thing to do for the long term health of the team.

Next year will probably be the time for that though.

If Kuroda agrees to the Dodgers offer, will lessen the need of Ned to look and trade for a SP. That'll leave us with Penny, Lowe, Bills, Kuroda, Schmidt/Loazia. No LH SP?

Ryan Zimmerman says "nyah, nyah, nyah" to Jeff Kent and Luis Gonzales, er I mean, comments on the Nationals recent moves:

"The truth is, we got younger, and if you look at the game and the teams that are winning, they're letting kids play," Ryan Zimmerman, the 23-year-old incumbent third baseman, said by phone Friday. "They might make a few mistakes here and there, but they're obviously a lot more talented than some of the guys that have been in the game 10 or 15 years. I guess you could say we're kind of taking a chance, but at the same time, it might be a chance that's worth it."

128 I could see the issue with no lefty in the pen(though I don't see it as much of a problem when it occurs). But no lefty in the rotation? It's not like starters are used for matchups with certain hitters. They pitch to everyone. Managers don't even alter rotaions based on whether a team is lefty heavy or righty heavy.

127 I just don't see a situation where his being moved this year would be making room for a better player. Perhaps he could be traded for a pitcher who would somehow be more valuable to the team overall, but his outfield spot would be taken by Pierre.

128 How many years had the Dodgers gone without a LH starter before Dennis Reyes started for them?

128 lefty starters on the 40-man roster: kuo, stults, miller, hendrickson.

also there's elbert and kershaw knocking on the door, both left-handed. we're not that hard up.

Our offense is very, very scary next year, and replacing Ethier seems like the best thing to do for the long term health of the team

what? he's not even close to being a problem. when he hits arb, maybe we can find someone better, but for now, an outfield of him, kemp, and jones is great. change would likely cost more than it's worth.

133 I agree that he isn't the problem, but I don't have faith that the actual problems are going anywhere. Swapping Ethier for a stud player in left would be a huge boon to the lineup.

As I said though, that probably won't happen this year.

However, the Dodgers are stocked with good players, and since Ethier has the lowest ceiling, he's the most likely to go to make room for a better player.

Our outfield depth is virtually non-existent.

If Laroche holds 3b next year and Bell breaks out, then we can look to moving Ethier and shift Bell to left field.

Some Oriole "insider" at Orioles hangout said its down to the Mariners and Dodgers for Bedard.

Whatever.

Does anyone strongly believe the Front Office is capable of swapping Ethier for a real stud. If true it might be OK but I'm really pessimistic.

137 Ethier shouldn't fetch one.

135 I meant a better left fielder.

Re: 135

Nate (or Canuck, if he's around), do you have any insights on why the farm is so scarce of OFs? Is it because White takes the best talent available, and the way things have turned out, we just haven't drafted OFs? Or is he philosophically inclined to take pitchers and IFs, for whatever reason.

WWSH

I think the Dodgers like to take players that are high above the defensive spectrum (minus catchers).

Middle infielders and pitchers just seem to be their philosophy on drafted and if they can't stay at middle infield, they move them to a lesser demanding position if their bat warrants it.

For example, Josh Bell isn't really going to be a 3b. He is most likely a left fielder so depending if he hits well, there is an outfield prospect right there.

Swapping Ethier for a stud player in left

that just sounds so much easier said than done. and unnecessary this year.

which stud left fielders are available, anyway? and for what price?

if, next year, we have a bunch of contracts coming off the books (nomar, kent, penny, furcal, lowe, etc...), and say, our rotation consists of say, bills, schmidt, kershaw, elbert, and macdonald (or maybe we get a FA pitcher too) then sure, we could throw a bunch of money at an outfield upgrade. but who would we get? vlad, finally, at age 33? adam dunn? carl crawford? crawford's not a huge upgrade over ethier, frankly, and he's gonna be ridiculously expensive. maybe we can throw prospects at someone for a matt holliday, hunter pence, or nick markakis-type.

Re: 141

Thanks, Nate. That actually sounds like a pretty good philosophy. IIRC, Repko was converted to the OF from SS, and if Guzman had stayed in our system, he probably would have been a RF.

WWSH

142 Yeah, those all sound good. Someone that can anchor this lineup. (Though we'll know a lot more about it next year. Right now the only two guys I feel like we can expect a certain performance from are Martin and Pierre.)

Marty, had similar thing happen with leak in front yard. Got like a $300 waterbill (10x normal). They prorated it though once I faxed a repair bill. A good plumber is nice to have.

Voltage regulator replaced, alternator back in and the SAAB is running. Whee. Now back to useless obsessing about the Dodgers.

142

I think Penny has an option & if he pitches well again this year I'm sure the Dodgers will exercise it. Yeah, I was gonna say, who would we replace Ethier with if we ended up trading him but you all beat me to the punch...

144 yeah, but for this upcoming (2008) season, i think we need ethier. we can look for someone better in 2009, but i think he needs to stay for now.

sorry to change the topic but man those other fights today (undercards as they call 'em) were really boring, finally the fight is just moments away & I'm feeling the adrenaline rush, YES!!!

142 Out of the five (Nomar, Kent, Penny, Furcal, Lowe...) I would try to resign Penny, and possibly Furcal.

147 Then we're in agreement.

149

Penny has a club option for 2009, so I'm not too worried about him yet.

Nomar, Kent and Lowe can go bye bye.

Furcal is a tougher choice.

140 -- I recall White saying a couple of years ago that "high school outfielders can fool you." In six drafts, White has NEVER drafted a high school outfielder in the first three rounds, and the single college outfielder we've taken in the first three rounds over the last six years, Sergio Pedroza, has the scent of Paul DePodesta's influence all over him. I think White distrusts his scouting instincts when it comes to amateur outfielders. He used to be a pitcher himself and it is clear that he is most comfortable scouting pitchers, but why he should shy away from outfielders more than infielders, I don't know. He did have a scouting career, with other clubs, before he became our scouting DIRECTOR, so maybe he misjudged a few too many outfielders in his day and is now gun-shy when it comes to them.

If Jones bounces back, and Kemp and LaRoche play as expected, that's a pretty potent 3/4/5 right there for 2009. Add in a strong hitting catcher in Martin, a solid line-drive and high OBP hitter in Loney (and who knows, maybe he'll flash more power), possibly above average production (for a SS) from Hu, and average production from Aybar at 2B, and I don't really see a need for an upgrade in LF. I'd rather save the funds for Jones' eventual replacement in CF (I'm not persuaded Kemp will ever be able to play that position).

WWSH

153 My problem is that everyone except Martin and Pierre has an if attached to them. I know some of them won't pan out, but if Kemp drops a .280/.325/.470 in the middle of the lineup, we might have a problem. If Jones doesn't bounce back, we might have a problem, if Kent plays like he's 40, we might have a problem.

We can have an amazing offense this year, or it can be completely horrific.

153 Aybar at 2B

abreu? aybar's a brave.

Re: 152

Thanks, Canuck. I wonder if Reggie Abercrombie's case has always played into not wanting to draft amateur OFs.

Re: 151

Why hold onto Furcal, when Hu's waiting in the wings? I think the jury's still out as to whether or not he'll be an offensive stud at SS , but I think it seems clear he'll at least be average for his position with the bat. Add in the defense, and he's already an above-average player we'll have for the league minimum. Furcal will want a long term deal, and he's only going to get older.

WWSH

Re: 155

Ooops--brain cramp.

WWSH

134
Ethier IS a stud player in left.
he put together a great first half and bad second half in year one and a bad first half and good second half this year.
i think he may put together a complete season this time around.
and thats offensively.
he is very good in the feild.

156 Hu needs to show me he can walk a little more before I think of him as something other than 2004 Izturis with maybe a bit more power.

151 Another good year by Penny, would definitely pick up the option and work on an extension. Penny might even take a bit less with an extension, than awaiting to go out on the FA market. Since all of his love interests are in Hollywood.

Re: 154

But that's a different question than '09, though? At the end of 08, I think we'll have a better sense of whether or not Kemp and LaRoche will be what we hope them to be. Then we can reassess.

BTW, in 156 , replace "always" with "also."

WWSH

Anyone see Diamond Leung's latest post, recapping Nashville?

"Riding up to the elevator to meet with Ned Colletti in his suite, a group of Dodger beat writers waited while a familiar face got on at an earlier floor. That person was Paul DePodesta. Talk about awkward."

He also asked Mike Scioscia about that hilariously awful 80s Dodger Boogie video.

156

Well for one, if Hu can be one of the centerpieces for a major part in a trade, then you have to evaluate it to see if keeping Furcal at 13 mil is worth it to acquire that other piece.

Also, Abreu can play SS too and if that puts a hole at 2b, thats okay; there are always tons of second basemen on the market every year.

158 I think you have to hit for more than the league average to qualify as a stud. Otherwise, well, there's a lot of them floating around.

LF is a soft position all over. Top dozen LFers by VORP: Holliday isn't going anywhere. Bonds is going to prison. Dunn's FA after this year, but I wouldn't be too gung-ho about paying for his next however many years. Lee and Soriano are locked down, long term. Carl Crawford is interesting, but not thrilling (except for TC). Manny, Burrell, Alou, Matsui, and Ibanez are old.

It'd be nice to upgrade LF, but it's no cinch. Are there a bunch of LF prospects coming up?

Also:
"Former third base coach Rich Donnelly turned down a job offer to coach the Class AA Marlins and might be out of a uniform for the first time in 40 years this season, but he does have an interview lined up to be an analyst on Baseball Tonight. {!}"

!

Re: 159

How is that not adequate at the SS position at the league minimum? Hu's a MI, not a corner OF; it's going to be a rare SS who gives us the kind of plus offense Furcal is capable of. But that's precisely why Furcal will probably demand a long-term and extremely expensive contract that includes his decline years; why not go with Hu, who will be adequate with the bat, and even has some upside, and give the big contract to someone who fills a hole that the farm can't cover adequately?

WWSH

158 i don't know if i'd go so far as to say "stud"... i think his hot start was aided somewhat by luck, but i will say that i think his critics have not really taken into account that he was playing injured for large chunks of time, so his talent level might not fully be captured by the average-ish numbers he's put up so far in his two year major league career.

Ethier is a great player to have as long as he isn't the centerpiece of the offense....he would be a fine hitter the 2,6,7,8 spots in the lineup....I hope Ethier stays a Dodger...he is a Mike Greenwell type who will have a few great years mixed in with the solid ones IMO.

159 -- We just paid Furcal $13 million for a year of performance that is probably below any reasonable expectations for Hu, who is going to be pretty cheap for six years. If Furcal's 2008 isn't REALLY great, he's gone for sure. And if his 2008 is merely decent, I can't see giving him another expensive contract when we can have Hu at a dirt cheap salary.

164
how many rookie and second year players even hit for league average, let alone above it?
for 2 half he did hit above lg average.
he just needs to put together a complete season doing so.

Re: 163

What's your assessment of Hu's offensive abilities, Nate? It seems that a lot of scouts, at least, seem to be persuaded that 2007 is closer to his real ability than 2006. But things are obviously a bit uncertain regarding his bat.

WWSH

165- Embarrassingly late on that. I hadn't refreshed since 140. Must have took longer than I thought it would to check the VORPs and make that terrific joke about Bonds going to prison.

and, lets worry about upgrading from Pierre to Ethier before we start trying to upgrade from Ethier.

172

He is never going to walk as much as Furcal but I think his power is around what Furcal could do.

I just don't want an Abreu/Hu middle infield in 2009 due to the fact that they can easily combine for a .310 on base. Furcal is the only other option out there outside of a trade, so I think he almost has to come back.

Granted, if he drops another year like this one, my opinion will shift dramatically.

anyone want to compare delwyn young with ethier?

there still getting a feel for each other but I have to admit Hatton looks sharp in the early going.

177- Do you have Delwyn's minor league stats?...I personally think Young, if given the chance will out-hit most of his LF counterparts...

Re: 175

Well, that sounds like an excellent SS to me, especially considering how people rave about his defense.

I also have a soft spot for Hu; it pains me, somewhat, to see how everyone in Taiwan is a Yankee fan, due to Wang. But if SS makes the bigs as the first everyday Taiwanese position player, the Dodgers will essentially become the island's NL team.

WWSH

177 Very different hitters, but my dislike of Delwyn is too well documented for me to be considered an objective start.

178- Keep 'em coming, I am stuck at the baby momma's house out in the desert with no where to watch the fight....

176 -- I really want to see a Hu/Abreu Dodger middle infield in 2009. That might be the best middle infield defensively in baseball. I believe they are both going to be better hitters than you think, especially in two years, at ages 25 and 24, with more room for progress.

Re: 176

But Furcal will ask for five years or more in his next contract, assuming he bounces back next year, which I think he will do. That was why he took only three years from us in the first place; he wanted to have another crack at free agency in 09, and then snag the big contract that covers his decline years. If Ned gives him a long-term deal, it obviates the whole point of the short term, but higher value/yr deal he gave him for 06/07/08.

IMO, best case is that Furcal has a strong 08, and then leaves for a big contract from someone else, somewhat like what JD Drew did when he opted out.

WWSH

slowly but surely (it's the end of the 3rd round) Mayweather is looking better & better. But it looks like he respects Hatton a lot in the early going.

184- If Furcal has a big year he will probably wind up in the NL Central in '09....

Does anyone know about Hu's baserunning?

181 sure he's 25 and not the most patient hitter in the world, but he impressed me in his limited MLB appearances this past season. i value walking as much as the next guy, but it's not the only thing.

185- Thanks...I appreciate...bummed about missing this fight...

While I'm hoping and praying that we trade Pierre (I'll take a six pack of beer, a bag of baseballs, or preferably a double A bullpen arm), trading Ethier is an infinitely better option than trading Kemp even though Kemp could net us a better SP.

While Ethier is and will continue to be a solid corner outfielder with good makeup, his offensive and defensive upside is considerably replaceable in comparison to Kemp's. With so much consideration in todays game relating to a player's value over a replacement player, you have to consider Ethier and Kemp's upside in comparison to a replacement free agent. It will be much easier and cheaper to replace Ethier's upside with future free agents or prospects than it could be to replace Kemp's. Remember, Kemp has only been playing baseball full time for 4 years, he just happens to be a freak athlete!

Does anybody here truly think we need to add another Bedard or Haren? I mean, I am 100% confident in going into a playoff series with Penny/Bills/Lowe. Granted, I think our biggest downfall last year were our #4 and #5 pitchers combining to win us about what...5 games???

But Schmidt/Loaiza is on paper, 100x better than a Tomko/Hendrickson back end of the rotation. And, if one of those guys can;t come through, you have Elbert/Kershaw/McDonald/Meloan/+ as other in house options knocking on the door, or you can analyze what you have on the team and can make a trade if need be w/out trading a vital part of your offense.

I believe right now our pitching staff and lineup (Ethier starting over Pierre) combined with our bullpen will get us into the playoffs. And I'm willing to ride into the sunset with Penny/Bills/Lowe as our playoff rotation. I think they could do some damage.

So why not hang on to our studs, trade Pierre for relief help if you can, and re-visit this situation in May or June?

Agree/Disagree?

190- Agree....Bills may be one of the top 5 starting pitchers in the NL by seasons end...

Well the analyst said Hatton won the 5th round but Mayweather looks a lot sharper now then he did in the previous rounds it's still a close fight.

I just read Sarah's latest Take. Usual sucking up thing, great getting Jones... But she slams Kemp pretty bad. She's off my read list. I tried to give her a break because of her handicap but she is completely in the dark here. I can't believe that someone actually pays some of these writers.

Agree, but I think the concern with our pitching is getting through a rugged NL West and the impending free agency for Lowe after this season and Penny the following year. Signing Kuroda and trading Pierre for a power arm to add to the bullpen would be ideal

Hatton one the 6th also he looks pretty good a lot better then I thought. Mayweather is such a good schooled boxer I think he'll pull it off.

Re: 186

15 SB/8 CS in 2007
11 SB/5 CS in 2006
23 SB/6 CS in 2005
20 SB/8 CS in 2004

Obviously, nothing to write home about.

WWSH

193 "According to some media reports, Kemp is the least coachable of any young Dodgers player."

sarah has obviously been reading plaschke.

194- Like someone else mentioned, out of Kershaw, McDonald, and maybe Elbert, the pitching situation on '09 could be lovely...

wow, the 8th round was ALL Mayweather with punishing shots, wowzers!!

190 -- With the exception of Pierre, I am content to go into the 2008 season with the 40-man roster we have now, and I think we will win the NL West -- unless Torre makes a lot of bad decisions about who to play (Nomar better be a bench player).

I am really bothered by Ned's paranoia about the pitching staff. I don't WANT Kuroda and we don't NEED him, but we very much NEED TO GET him just to keep Ned from doing something incredibly stupid trade-wise to ease his fears about our pitching.

197-The media's irresponsibility in picking up, and running with Kemp's "Malcontent" label has underscored what I've seen from the media in general over the past few years...

198

Yup... can't wait.

never gonna happen, but imagine an entirely homegrown starting rotation. how awesome would that be. maybe if kuo can ever manage to stay healthy or miller ever figures out his control, they could be tacked onto a bills/kershaw/elbert/macdonald foursome.

hey, a man can dream, can't he?

It's all over GENIOUS BOY FLOYD wins by KO.

Re: 200

I agree with you for the most part, but I do think we could do better on SP depth. We have a lot of above-average injury risk there (Schmidt/Loaiza), and our best options on the farm all have question marks (Kershaw's youth/Elbert coming off of an injury/McDonald's unproven status). Furthermore, Penny, Lowe, or, gawd forbid, Bills could also go down. Now, it's true that every MLB rotation has these sorts of concerns, but assuming Torre manages his personnel correctly, a Kuroda could be a welcome addition.

WWSH

Agreed 198.

194...We have a lot of very GOOD and promising in house options knocking on the door.

What is McDonald's ceiling? Is it around a #3 starter or #4/#5?

Re: 203

Has anyone seen a scouting report on Miller during the Fall league? I saw some of his stats from the BA prospect report from the AFL, and they looked pretty grim. I really do hope he can turn it around, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

WWSH

204- Wow...I figured Floyd was gonna win on points...There will be a lot of Drunken Brits throwing fisticuffs in Vegas tonight....

206 i just looked at mcdonald's 2007 jacksonville stats. good lord.

209- I read a scouting report that said McDonald has excellent command of 3 pitches and is projected as a good #3...

McDonald is really tall and skinny (6'5 200lbs).

He has deception to his delivery and pitches at an over the top angle (similar to Chris Young).

Presently, his ceiling is probably a solid #3. Although I would not be surprised one bit if he comes into spring training with 10lbs of muscle and 3-4mphs on his fb.

197 - Her muse. So true.

So, is coachability the ability to follow instruction and improve, or just to act like you're paying attention? Because if it's the former, I don't see a lot of coachability in, oh, just about the entire Dodger roster - certainly those above the age of 25.

Is Juan Pierre coachable? I mean, he has basically resigned himself to what his game is. He's not changing. Is Nomar coachable? Is Kent coachable?

And then there's Kemp, who's so uncoachable, he could be stuck hitting .290 or better with power and speed for years. What a nightmare. Not even going to want to speak to him after he wins the game with a big hit.

Really, this is all about who has the best and worst manners. And we all know how important manners are to winning baseball.

Wow I just looked at his 07 stats too. My goodness. Selected in the 11 round. I don't ever remember hearing too much about him coming up except last year. 4-1 SO/BB. Hitters hit .218 off him. 1 HR per about 10 innings.
Will they start him in Vegas or keep him in Jacksonville to start off the year?

208

That's what I thought too but it was a freshly squeezed KO. You know what, it was pretty cool hearing the brits corner strategies (sp) you always here american english or spanish it was a nice change to hear Brits in the corner.

212 the irony of all of this is that it's old man kent who has the worst manners on the team.

p.s. i enjoy Slightly Sarcastic Jon. he should be allowed to show his face somewhat more often :)

216 - I even dialed that one back.

I mean, coachability is nothing more than a someone younger pissed off someone older. Even if it's true, it's so ridiculous.

If any of these guys could really be coached ... then, you know, coaches might actually matter.

I think Hu's power may surprise. The problem is that he is ready for an appearance, as is Abreu. Somehow the earlier class has all the attention while these guys have less than they deserve. Maybe they should be played, and the earlier class traded, as they now are at peak value. At any rate last years Furcal had less power and less OPS than either of these guys at their worst. So if Furc doesn't recover, we have two replacements, and I heae Ivan II is looking good.

I don't think Young and Ethier compare very well. Ethier has a little more pop and quite a bit more discipline at the plate. The rate at which they strike out is one of their more similar traits. Delwyn's walk and K rate are very similar to Matt Kemps at this point in their careers.
vr, Xei

The problem with Floyd Mayweather is that he's such an insufferable jerk, such a thoroughly unlikeable human being, I can never sit back and enjoy what a remarkably gifted fighter he is. I just watch every fight in the hopes that he'll get knocked on his can. He's the anti-Roy Jones Jr., who I watched, while in awe, for a decade.

From Sarah's take on dodgers.com:
Many people criticized Juan Pierre's throwing arm last season. Although most knew he had a weak arm going in, we had no idea how weak it was. When Pierre had more errors than assists, his defensive ability angered many fans.

Having Jones and Pierre in the outfield daily will help the defense.
•Doesn't the latter contradict the former?

Jones' influence will help Ethier and/or Kemp's defense
•Not if one of them is benched in favor of Pierre.

I lost most of my interest in boxing when the Ray Leonard-Roberto Duran-Hit Man Hears era ended. It perked a little bit during Mike Tysons run, just because he was a freak of nature. Nowadays, boxing is right up there with the Wonder Years and reality tv for me. vr, Xei

216 you know, i may have brought this up before, but i can't remember and really the search function isn't all that handy, i've found, so i'll possibly repeat myself...

i find it interesting that baseball culture is kind of at odds with american culture this way. baseball teams are all about respecting elders and traditions, whereas it seems like american culture more broadly is so much more youth and ability-oriented. once you're perceived as past it, you're yesterday's news. how is it that over-the-hill vets are so important in this sport? granted, kent is a hall-of-famer, so respect is due to some degree, but what about gonzo's griping? why does he need to be handled with kid gloves?

222 That's a real shame, because the Welterweight division is just as strong as it was in the 80's, the Middleweights are far more talented than twenty years ago, and the the Lightweights are really exciting.

The problem is closed-circuit TV. No more "Friday Night Fights is on the air!" The personalities aren't mainstream, because the sport is almost entirely pay-per-view.

Anybody who remotely enjoys boxing and isn't paying attention nowadays is really missing out. It's a great era.

219. "Ethier has a little more pop"

While Ethier has better plate discipline and plays better defense, Delwyn Young has hit for at least as much power at every level, and even Slugged .571 in a full year of AAA last year (Ethier's minor league high was an even .500 in 86 games in Vegas) and Young also slugged .647 in 19 MLB games. Young has increased his doubles total in 3 straight seasons, 37 in AA/AAA, 42 in AAA, and 54 last year. Ethier in comparison has never hit more than 32 doubles in a season at any level

Ethier and Young are very similar in that they have been given the "3.5" tag -- with BA practically saying just that about Young by saying he is a 4th outfielder for the Dodgers but a starter for a "second division club." If Young got a chance to play everyday in the majors, I think his numbers would be very similar to Ethier's, with Young's superior bat speed making up for some holes in his swing that Ethier doesn't have.

Canuck, what does your crystal ball hold in store for DeWitt? Are you still as bullish on the lad as you once were?

225. Well, I made my comparison based on "now", as opposed to what each did at the same age. At this point in time, it is my belief that Ethier would hit more home runs per at bat than Delwyn Young at the major league level. vr, Xei

228 i'm not sure i agree.

228 Ethier might hit more homers, but Young, over a full season, would slug an absolute ton of doubles. It's a real shame Young can't play second, because the kid could probably hit 40 doubles and 15 homers over the course of a full season. He's just a man without a position.

230. Young may have an advantage in his doubles rate over Ethier, but that .300 OBP and less HR pop more than makes up for it. I hope Young proves me wrong and improves his poor plate discipline and tendancy to strike out quite a bit. Ethier should easily out OBP and SLG Young in 2008 given a fair sample size for both players.
vr, Xei

The ball really jumps off of Young's bat.
http://tinyurl.com/ywfs36

The first multimedia link of his two run shot against the Giants demonstrates the awesome lethality of DY.

Ethier really drives the ball but there's just something special about DY's bat. It's a gut feeling of mine. He has makeup and grit.

/oldcrustyscout off

231 what .300 OBP??

young's career minor league ISOp is .056. not fantastic, sure, but he would have to hit under .250 to have a .300 OBP at that rate.

233. http://tinyurl.com/2gbywn
(SFW)
vr, Xei

From T.J. Simers column:

Dodgers try to sell a fan on acquisition of Jones

>> "I tried to be aggressive, and sometimes was too aggressive," admitted Colletti. "I wanted to help get the Dodgers back to where they were as quickly as possibly, but I haven't made all the greatest decisions." <<

## Colletti's future with the team probably rests on the play of the youngsters he continues to horde.

"Yes, that's probably the way it is," he said. "I understand we're in L.A. and people have waited a long time for a championship, but rather than go for one in '08 and have a lesser chance in '09 and '10, I'd rather do something to have a chance to win every year." ##

%% Two months to go before pitchers and catchers report, and Colletti said he'll try to add a starting pitcher or reliever before doing anything at third base %%

http://tinyurl.com/yt78fp

234 yeah, i don't buy that.

236. Then tell us what your 2008 projections are for Ethier and Young.
vr, Xei

237 well, i don't think ethier's projection is too far off. i think he'll probably hit around .300/.365/.455, and young would probably hit something like .285/.335/.485 in a full season

238 that's my admittedly very un-scientific feeling about it.

239. :)
vr, Xei

[237-238]
Young has played alot of 2nd base.
How does he compare to Kent on defense?

238. a .485 SLG% for Young would give him a good shot at having the top SLG% for the whole team, and I would expect Plaschke to be calling for him to be traded in a package to Baltimore for Erik Bedard.
vr, Xei

227 -- Greg, I remain convinced that DeWitt has a very good chance to be a starting major league 3B, but assuming LaRoche is given a fair shot at entrenching himself at the position for the Dodgers, DeWitt will probably be some other team's 3B. I can see DeWitt having a lot of typical Adrian Beltre seasons offensively, with a bit less power. He will probably never be a good OBA guy. Assuming LaRoche blocks DeWitt, I would hold DeWitt for a couple more seasons and then trade him when he is Triple A proven and MLB ready, so he will be at the height of his trade value.

243 I always enjoy your defense of DeWitt. I have no earthly idea why you like him so much, but you do. He is an absolute butcher with the glove, he can't hit homers, and he repeated a league. What's to like?

And yet Canuck likes him. It's quite the dichotomy.

242 okay, maybe not that high. but i dunno, i doubt he'll get a full season's worth of at bats anyway, so the point is moot. i think he's got power though.

I just saw the interview of Mayweather after his victory; first time I've seen him interviewed. I don't know whether I should be appalled or amused by his seeming... how should I put it?... arrogance? affect?

WWSH

After canceling my LA Time subscription, I finally took a peek at the LATimes.com Sports page. Most of the fans want an Ethier/Jones/Kemp outfield. I think around 67 percent of the morons voted for it. Which gives me hope.

If 67 percent of LA Times readers understand which outfield is the best, Colletti has to understand it as well. Right?

RIGHT????

Re: 244

DeWitt was no. 5 on the BA list, and he's always been well thought-of by scouts. The BA scouting report explicitly compares him to Loney, whose minor league career numbers also disappointed many.

WWSH

247. Many of those so-called morons were from DT and TBLA. There was a get out the vote drive at both sites. vr, Xei

244 -- I don't recall hearing anything about DeWitt being a "butcher with the glove," although he is no prize defensively. Who cares if he repeats a league as long as he is still very young for the league he repeats? DeWitt hit at Double A. Had he gone to college instead of turning pro out of high school he would have just been drafted last June, so most of his "classmates" have yet to play at low single A. Can't hit home runs? He hit 14 this year, which is three more than Loney hit at the same age (and Loney was healthy all that year too). DeWitt hit .292 this year with 59 extra base hits out of 151 total hits. Ideally you want a hitting prospect to make 30% of his hits of the extra base variety, and anything more is gravy.

250 Oh come on. DeWitt has been lambasted for his glove work. He's a terrible fielder. If he had any range or ability with the leather, he'd be ranked way higher in prospect rankings. He's been a sub-par fielder throughout his minor league career.

He doesn't have enough power to play third base, and he can't field well enough to play second base.

The sad thing with the Ethier Young and Pierre debate in my mind is the simple fact of 2b's, and what the Dodgers ultimately need out of the LF spot-more power. Pierre's highest doubles number was 32 with 699 AB's IN 2006, and 28 in 2003 with 668 AB's. Ethier in 2007 with 447 AB's had 32 and in 2006 had 20 with 396.

I am not clear where Young will end up in this department, but the need for power even doubles power is so great having JP take up so many AB's is just ridiculous.

251 -- Like another person already pointed out, Greg, DeWitt is ranked #5 now by BA, ahead of James McDonald, who gets no shortage of love here and elsewhere. And I think there is a pretty big range between plus defender and "butcher with the glove." His defense was really only criticized when he was playing 2B, and obviously that experiment is in the past. DeWitt will have "average" power, according to BP's Kevin Goldstein, and there is nothing wrong with that unless every prospect is supposed be better than the guys who play in the majors. And Goldstein, like the BA writer, goes on about how scouts love DeWitt's swing, which is what we heard for years about Loney. Of course, I got used to people laughing at me for YEARS for supporting Loney, so you might as well carry on the tradition with DeWitt substituted for Loney -- although let me state right now that I'm not as big on DeWitt as I was on Loney.

What does Baseball America say re Blake DeWitt?

2007 - #5 Prospect, "adequate defender with plus arm" as a 3B.
2006 - #8 Prospect, "lacks the actions and range to stick in the middle infield and he's not a fluid fielder" as a 2B/3B. He does have "solid-average arm and a quick release."
2005 - #7 Prospect, "adequate defensive third basemen" "slightly above average arm" as a 3B.
2004 - #8 Prospect, "range just fringe average, and his hands are just adequate"

Dewitt has made the top ten list every year he has been in the organization and along with Andy LaRoche, is the only Dodger to appear on the last 4 straight top ten prospects.

I never, ever laughed at anybody with respect to Loney. You may have suffered the slings an arrows of criticism when it came to James Loney, but I was not one of the crowd. I've been a fan of the kid since day one.

We've talked about DeWitt before. He's a Missouri kid, which is hardly a hotbed of great baseball. He was a line drive kid in high school, has shown zero power development in the minor leagues, and cannot field a middle infield position. He can't hit enough bombs to be a third baseman, and he can't field enough to play second base.

Where, exactly, do you think he can play, Canuck? Where is he valuable at the major league level? Is he above LaRoche? No. Is he a better hitter than Delwyn Young? NO. Is he better trade bait than Hu? No.

Exactly what is he worth?

255 -- I hope you didn't think I was accusing YOU of laughing at me for supporting Loney; others were doing that, in particular a Mets fan who goes by the name "RSVandy" on the old Scout.com boards.

About DeWitt's power development, he hit 14 this year. That's two more than Loney ever hit before 2007, Loney's age 23 season. Just how many home runs do you think a third baseman needs to hit annually? And if a third baseman hits .300, would you accept less power? I think DeWitt will hit .285 to .315 (depending on his development and progress from here), with not a great OBA, and about 17-20 HR's annually, with a lot of doubles for good measure, all while being defensively "adequate" at 3B. That package, especially in a young, cost-controlled player, has value in the majors.

To answer your specific questions about DeWitt, even if you intended them to be rhetorical, I already said I think he can play 3B, though I admitted he will probably be blocked in L.A. by LaRoche, so will require a trade at some point. I spelled out above how "valuable" I think DeWitt will be at the major league level, and I say again that he will be valuable to a team that really wants a decent 3B who is young and cheap. No, he's not better than LaRoche, but so what? LaRoche out-classes a lot of prospects, and that doesn't diminish those prospects or make them non-prospects. DeWitt is four years younger than Delwyn Young, and he likely WILL be a better hitter for average than Young in the long-run, with a superior swing that is perfect for maintaining a high contact rate (and he plays a more defensively-premium position than Young). DeWitt is also not better trade bait than Hu, but for the following reasons: (1) he is two years younger than Hu; (2) he plays a less-premium defensive position than Hu and doesn't play it as well; (3) he has never played in Triple A; and (4) he won't be Triple A-ready at the start of the 2008 season -- all of which is why I said we should hold on to DeWitt at least till his trade value increases, as it surely will in the next couple years.

247 - Well, I don't see Colletti blasting the poll for being unscientific

257 That's really funny.

It seems an excellent debate on DeWitt happened here last night. It may have been a round too long, but it was the kind of respectful argument with stat. support that you just can't find many places outside of DT.

PS when do you sleep, Canuck?

260 -- When I'm tired.:)

256 -- And in the first line of the second paragraph of my comment, that should have been DeWitt "hit 14 HR's this year."

Milton Bradley just signed with Texas.

One less place to ship off Pierre.

Great work Canuck.

I remember when we left the old scout boards.

Enuff said.

263 I've been listening to SD radio recently. Last coupla days they thought Milton as in the bag for $4mil.

Too much talk? Too cheap or bad blood w/ Bud?

I have long been a DeWitt and Loney supporter. With LaRoche's slow starts and back worries, Nomar's fragilness, DeWitt may have an opportunity to play third for the Dodgers sooner than expected.

Now that AROD and Cabrerra are out of my head I can once again root for DeWitt to become the next long-term Dodger third baseman.

The talk of the Lincicum for Rios trade reminded me that I would like to see Rios play for the Dodgers. Maybe a three team trade involving Pierre, Ethier, and MacDoanad could bring Rios to the Dodgers. An outfield of Rios, Jones, Kemp would be good for me.

267 The Blue Jays have no need for another average outfielder, let alone Pierre.

Its hard see where Rios stats are going to look much different from Ethier, who I believe is younger and cheaper. I don't think Rios hit more than twenty home runs till his 26-27 age year.

I see that the Yanks are releasing Carl Pavano. He had one lousy season after signing a FA contract followed by a season ended by elbow surgery. But before that he was the toast of MLB. He is big and not yet 32 years old. Sounds like someone we should sign to a minor league contract.

267 Check that Brap, I guess you are right that Rios has a bit more pop than Ethier.

270
Or a guaranteed $8 million MLB contract.

See, for example, Wolf, Randy.

269 It is true, but Rios always had the tools for power, I don't think it was ever projected for Ethier. Plus, his defense is amazing.

270 He accepted the assignment, he's still a Yankee.

Beautiful morning to everyone, wow breathtaking view from my porch this morning, anyways, did you guys read "Sarah's take" this morning? check this out >>Jones is graceful and can make the routine play look effortless. Routine plays are always pretty effortless no? it's the HARD plays he makes look effortless, just a little something I noticed. One more thing Milton Bradley has agreed to terms with with the Rangers so says FoxSports.com [ http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7543548 ]

Re: 275

Being able to DH in the AL may help keep Bradley on the field. Hopefully he'll avoid another outburst.

WWSH

I was looking at the Marlins depth chart, and read that they are thinking of moving Uggla to third....Uggla strikes out too much, but has a lot of power and the Marlins have a lot of good middle relievers....I would not be against moving LaRoche for Uggla....or Abreu for one of their relief pitchers...or Both Abreu and LaRoche for Uggla and Matt Lindstrom, who impresses me...That way Pierre can be moved for the "Bag of baseballs" because that's all Ned is gonna get for him...

BTW, Milton Bradley isn't really a centerfielder anymore....I would be suprised if the Rangers put him there....

277 - I would rather have Laroche than Uggla. Uggla can't hit for average, and his OBP will never be more than average. Laroche is the real deal, his back is the only thing that worries me. I think Laroche will be a much better hitter than Uggla as soon as next year, not to mention what he will do in his prime.

278- Do you see LaRoche as a 30 hr guy?

Injury issues aside, I think LaRoche is quite possibly the best hitter in the Dodger organization right now.

277 Why do you say he can't play center? He's at worst average.

281- He has gotten a lot bigger...plus he can't stay healthy which leads me to believe that they won't place him in such a physically demanding position....he hasn't played center for a couple of years now...

Talk is that DH would allow Milton to get up to speed easier and on the field earlier.

I think they still need a CFer...

282 He was the A's center fielder when he was healthy last year.

283- I don't see the Rangers making a play for Pierre...I still think it's Chicago or bust, and I'll bet that the only thing holding up the deal is Kenny Williams wanting Ned to take on Contreras and his contract...

RE: 279

I think LaRoche is definitely a 30 HR guy, if he can stay healthy. He also has none of the concerns regarding plate discipline that exist with Kemp.

WWSH

dewitt, loney:
canuck: I'm with you on the loney support, even from way back. he was always young for his league and showed peripheral stats - high obp, mainly - that hinted at greater development. but dewitt seems more like loney in their shared negatives. i hope my (poorly researched) hunch is wrong, of course. and i do think "avg. ml 3rd baseman" is a positive description, not a negative. so... who knows, i guess. but if they could get something strong for dewitt in trade, i'd be happy.

279 - He certainly could be, he hit 18 home runs in 265 at bats in Vegas last year and 21 in 250 at bats in Vero beach. Those are hitter's parks, but Laroche is still young enough to develop more. Besides, Uggla has 30 home runs and an OPS barely over .800. There is more to power than home runs, Laroche can hit for average and take a walk.

279:
i'm not sure which has bugged me more - talk of trading kemp or talk of "needing" a 3rd baseman. yes, I know, it's all rumor - none of us on this board "know" what's going on in ned's tiny, unfurnished brain. but if the media drumbeat about laroche has any credibility, i'm not optimistic about our future. not giving a prospect of his history a legitimate chance would be a very grim sign.

279 I love the guy, but I'm not convinced, he's just not that great at lofting balls. Most of his power just comes from him hitting line drives out of the park. I don't think he'll ever be more than a 20-25 home run guy with a lot of doubles.

Re: 290

Power's the last tool to develop, and Dodger Stadium is neutral when it comes to HRs. He's also got the batting eye to wait for his pitch. LaRoche doesn't have the monstrous power potential Kemp has, which could make the latter a superstar if he can learn the strike zone better, but I don't think 30 HR is out of reach for LaRoche.

WWSH

280 - If Laroche had no injury concerns then I would rather trade Kemp than lose him. He plays a tougher position (I doubt Kemp will ever be a regular CF, even though I think he could be), he has hit for more power at every stop and he can get on base apart from his very decent batting average. Kemp has phenomenal physical gifts, but I see plenty of red flags that he will need to address if he is to become a star. Meanwhile, Laroche's back problem scares the crap out of me.

as long as we're talking prospects, i'm a fan of hu. not because he's gonna hit in the majors like he did this year in the minors, but because he's adapted in the exact ways he needed to adapt - getting strong, maintaining his flexibility, etc. he still is a plus fielder (by reputation, anyway) and he's a developing hitter. so here's my question: how long, if ever, before we want Hu as our shortstop?

289 not giving a prospect of his history a legitimate chance

re LaRoche

Summarizes what so many of us have felt regarding Loney, Kemp and especially LaRcohe right now.

In this era of crazy free agent contracts, to not give prospects of such history an opportunity, firm opportunity without considering upgrading 3b and such. He's old enough, completed all the hurdles...other orgs would kill for this kind of homegrown prospect.

I know Depo had 2-3 year plans...he would have planned for ...

nevermind.

293 He's going to need to walk more than once every 32 plate appearances for me to really want him, but the lack of any useful shortstops on the market next year will probably force our hand.

293 - If the Dodgers hitting improves to the point where they can hide him at the bottom of the lineup and spend 13 million on something else, then I think he could be a utility guy this year and start next year. However, I am not sold at all on his bat. He needs to be more than just an above average SS defensively to be a worthwhile starter.

294, 296:
yeah, the walk rate blows. but it's cool that's he's improved on something specific each year. weirdly, he (hu) reminds me of r. martin. a guy who works on the game in an intelligent way and who might be of equal value (if he develops) offensive/defensive player. plus it'll be fun to write "he (hu)" a lot....

ok, saying "he (hu)" a lot would be lame. i'll stop.

It would be a great snowball effect to be able to play LaRoche in 2008, then his success will lead to the higher likelihood of future kids breaking into the lineup.

In 2009, the Dodgers can say, "Well, it worked with LaRoche, and now our offense is pretty good. We can protect Hu by batting him at the bottom of the order."

297 - Martin had amazing OBPs in the minors though, power develops but plenty of hitters never learn plate discipline. I am not trying to be argumentative, because I really like Hu. He reminds me of Ethier, someone who could have value as a cheap, average player but also has some potential for more.

299

I thought 2007 was suppose to have already done that :(

301
Me too!

I think 2006 started with a few snowflakes, and became a tiny, barely throwable snowball in 2007. Hopefully, it will develop into a giant, city conquering behemoth by 2009. :)

299- How'd that work out for Martin and Loney? The fight is the fight; one side says he's good at baseball, as demonstrated by having been good in the minors, and good enough for Logan White (Peace be upon him) to draft and bother signing, and good enough for half the other teams in baseball to offer shiny middle relievers for. Then the other side says: well, yeah, but what about Billy Ashley?

300:
good point about martin and plate discipline. but i looked it up just now and saw something of interest about Hu... in his AA years, ages 22 to 23, his obp jumped from 324 to 360-something. that's not huge; and he didn't control the strike zone (in fact, his walk rate slipped; his obp grew because he got a buttload more hits), but the direction is positive.... i guess the reason i'm asking so much about Hu is because i don't know what to make of the guy. a long time ago he looked too little to be a big league regular. but he looks a lot bigger now than his baseball card numbers (his weight is listed as 155 lbs., i think, which looks about 20 lbs lighter than reality) and he sure lit up the minors last year for a SS... whatever. it'll be interesting to see what he becomes...

So, ESPN has bowling on, but the the trick is it looks a lot like they're bowling in Miller Park.

Not quite a baseball game, but that ballpark atmosphere can't be beat.

What's that, you've got some other sport you watch on wintry Sundays?

285 - I have no problem taking on Contreras's contract. We could use the insurance for Loaiza/Schmidt/Kuo. And really, this trade is probably better for the team than keeping Pierre and signing Kodura.

Also, I'm looking at BTF's ZIP projections for the Dodgers next year, while the average lines are probably about right, I think the HR, R, and RBI numbers are a bit low. Don't have anything scientific to base that on.

303 - The counter point is, the proven vets that you want to trade the kids for were once prospects themselves. Everyone has something to prove until they prove it. Trading young players because sometimes they don't work out when every big market team has tens of millions of dollars wrapped up in free agents that don't even play is hypocritical. There are no guarantees, but if you keep on drafting and signing good players then eventually some, and in the Dodgers case a lot, of them become the vets you want at a price that allows you to make those mistakes on the market.

304 the offensive strides that hu has made in the past couple of years makes me want to at least give him a chance to hold down a major league starting job in 2009.

299 - future kids? If things work out in the next couple of years, we really shouldn't even have to talk about kids for 6-7 years (and a couple of WS championships).

I just mean, what future kids? We've got kids everywhere but SS, CF, and 2B. Maybe you're talking about the rotation?

295 - I'm not worried about walk rate. If a guy is not perceived to be a power threat, pitchers will likely challenge him more, meaning more hittable pitches. Also, if a guy is selective enough, pitchers will pick up on that in the scouting report and throw more stuff that is hittable. I don't want guys going up there looking to get walked, if they do because the pitcher isn't throwing strikes, that's fine.

A very dangerous thing, pronouncing teen agers as too slight to be any good. just two years ago BA prospect book said that Hu was 155 lbs, and his slight frame left no room for much improvement. Now he is a big strong man, although apparently plenty flexable. I also remember a guy who was traded for Delino Deshields.

where does everyone have the payroll at right now? around 100 mil?

309 Couldn't you use that argument for Juan Pierre?

I don't see how that really works either. If you know that the guy can't take a pitch, you're just going to keep going further and further off the plate to see what he'll bite at. If Hu can't be bothered to take pitches, I doubt he'll ever get anything to hit.

311 I have it at 114 right now with Torre and estimating our arbitration awards.

311- Still room to extend Martin and Billingsley!

313

Are you adding Furcal's 2009 bonus as part of 2008 payroll?

315 No, I have the full breakdown on the right sidebar of True Blue LA.

we're still paying Odalis!?!?! Blah.

309 - That theory of patiencedoesn't hold water. I don't want hitters up there looking for walks, but then I don't want them up there looking for anything. The situation and the pitch dictates what the hitter does. Plenty of pitches in the strike zone should be fouled off until you either gets balls or a truly hittable pitch. It isn't like pitchers are challenging Matt Kemp, but pitching out of the zone all the time to Andy Laroche.

318 - I need to edit. Perhaps I should use that preview function.

$31,000,000 of the 2008 payroll will go to two players who OPSed .724 and .688 in 2007.

320 and yet things look rather rosy.

311 - it was 108 last year, I can't imagine it has dropped.

312 - of course, the free swingers are going to see more pitches out of the zone, it's the converse of what I was talking about in 309.

318 - I don't necessarily disagree with you, of course the situation is going to dictate what the hitter does, it is also going to dictate what the pitcher does. And the key to what I said was, "if a guy is selective enough..." That means he's able to take pitches. It is a game of adjustments, pitcher sees hitter doesn't swing at bad pitches so he throws more strikes. Remember, the pitcher is trying to get the hitter out.

Meanwhile, the Charger-Titan game is going deep into the depth charts because of injuries.

Since the Padres missed Bradley, this is their lineup right now.

RF Brian Giles
CF Scott Hairston
1B Adrian Gonzalez
3B Kevin Kouzmanoff
C Michael Barrett
SS Khalil Greene
LF Jason Lane
2B Chase Headley

Substitute Lane for Morgan Ensberg and move Kouzmanoff to left if that's your thing.

That lineup shouldn't give anyone nightmares.

Can Headley really play 2B?

326 I'm pretty sure that's the plan, since it looks like plan B right now is Callix Crabbe or Oscar Robles.

268 - Rios add much more speed and stolen bases compared to Ethier. The Jays might not want Pierre as you said in response to my post but then again, maybe that is why I suggested a three team trade.

Callix Crabbe is a great name though.

He had a .401 BABIP at San Antonio, this year, but, still, .323/.431/.576 over 434 ABs is nothing to sneeze at. PECOTA had him at -10 runs, defensively, for 3B, coming in to this year.

328 I love Alex Rios and would be overjoyed if the Dodgers could find a way to get him here without shooting themselves in the foot.

325 Even better is what's kept the Padres afloat the last few years is their defense, letting them get good performances out of guys like Germano. If Headley can barely handle second, the only plus defenders they have are Greene, Gonzalez and Giles.

They're in a position where they have to sign Fukudome now, and that makes me very happy.

San Antonio seems to suppress HRs, and to only really help 2Bs. Most of Headley's doubles were hit on the road. Is the Texas League hitter-friendly, in general?

Can Headley really play 2B?

Matt Antonelli can play 2b, I really doubt Headley can.

Depending on who is the better defensive 3b, that player would play 3b with the other playing LF out of Kouz and Headley.

334 Bloody hell, I mixed those two up. Antonelli isn't even on the 40 man right now so I blanked him out.

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/2007/12/even_more_stuff.html

Item: A Hong Chih Kuo bobble head doll

Price: $14.99

Where: eBay.com (item number 170175719990)

The rundown: The Dodgers pitcher, who actually did play some last season but may never been seen or heard of again, is memoralized in a hand painted, very limited edition piece of bobbleheaded sculpture.

What we'd tell the customer service rep upon returning it: "It's a cool thing, but actually, this bobblehead shows him, I believe -- correct me if I'm wrong -- throwing right handed. Maybe I didn't get a good look at him this past season -- I do remember him hitting a home run into the right-field pavilion and flipping his bat in the air -- but he was also batting left-handed. And didn't he start in one of the playoff games against the Mets in '06 because ... he was left-hander?

335 I'll be very happy if Headley somehow loses that battle.

I personally like Antonelli more than Headley but thats because he is more athletic.

Both should give solid production for a middle market club like the Padres.

I guess the Padres are pledging allegiance to Headley.

"pledge allegiance..."
Headley: ...to Chase Hedley...
Men: ...to Chase Hedy...
Headley: That's Headley!
Men: That's Headley.

337 Forget the bobblehead; for only $10 you can sponsor his page at BR (and they know he is a lefty).

337
Kuo is 100% southpaw.

342 - I think Kuo eats with his right hand.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned this but it's kind of weird coming to Jon's thread & no start of topic from him, just a blank thread.

Regarding the Dodgers 4th and 5th pitchers in their rotation, shouldn't they be able to piece together 60 decent starts out of Loaiza, Schmidt, Kuo, Elbert, Houlton, MacDonald, Meloan, Park, Kershaw? That would be quite a committee but phased in properly, could be better now and in the long run than the big trade.

290

I agree with RefFairField in that La Roche is a 20 to 25 home run guy (from everything I've heard he's almost exclusively a pull hitter) I'm sure he'll hit 30 home runs at least once in his career but he'll be 22-27 dinger guy in my opinion, I wouldn't mind having that kind of pop in our 3rd base bag plus we know he'll take a walk & hit for a nice average, I'll take that any day.

344 - And some people actually work when the boss is out of the office as well.

347
But what if you are the boss?

316 We will also be paying Bill Mueller $750,000 in 2008.

In 2008 we will pay $3,150,000 to players no longer on the LAD roster.

In 2007 it was a total of $15,075,500.

In 2009, as of now, it will be $6,875,000.

In 2008 we will pay $3,150,000 to players no longer on the LAD roster.

Is that actually bad? wondering out loud here, I wonder how much the yanks, bosox, cubbies etc. pay for players they no longer have, just a little curious.

With:

Saito
Broxton
Proctor
Beimel
possibly Hendrickson & Seanez

and Houton, Stults, Meloan, Tronosco & Hull in AAA why would the LAD need any additional bullpen help?

350 The higher the $$ amounts paid to players no longer playing for a team might indicate poor roster management.

However, monies paid as out year bonuses or deferred payments should do not reflect negatively as it might actually be good money management.

352

So dumping Pierre (for the greater good of the Dodgers) is good or bad in your eyes? I say it's good OVERALL business no?

Of course we go back into the little circle in that we should have never gotten him in the first place...

350 I wonder if the Yanks and Bosox really give alot of consideration to these types of expenses. Both of these teams enjoy a source of revenue that other teams do not, in the form of their TV networks.

354 I just voted for the fourth time.

351- Because Joe Torre needed pitching help on the Yankees, so he figures that's what the Dodgers need too.

353 - Depends. If he was going to play left field every day, then cutting ties is quite valuable. If Torre was going to bench him or if he would get traded somewhere, then maybe not.

349 In 2009, as of now, it will be $6,875,000.

Are you counting Nomar's $2.5m signing bonus as all 2009? I have it at $1.25m in each of 2009 & 2010, putting the 2009 old money payouts at:

Furcal - $4m (deferred signing bonus)
Nomar - $1.25m (deferred signing bonus)
Loaiza - $375k (buyout of option)
Total - $5.625m (I'm assuming the Dodgers pick up Penny's $9.25m option rather than pay him a $2m buyout)

In 2010, it looks like this:

Nomar - $1.25m (deferred signing bonus)
Schmidt - $2.5m (with another $1m in 2011)
Andruw - $5m (deferred signing bonus)
Total - $8.75m

Note: I've never seen definitive word on Schmidt's contract payout. Piecing together info from Cots Contracts and mlb4u.com, it looks like the breakdown of Schmidt's deal, including salary, bonus, and deferred money, is:

2007 - $15.5m
2008 - $13m
2009 - $15m
2010 - $2.5m
2011 - $1m
Total - $47m

I am looking forward to Hu-Abreu up the middle in 2009 (if Ned let's it happen -- that's a lot of kids in the lineup). We can debate the offense, but with that combo+Jones and Martin, will there be another team stronger up the middle defensively? Hu to Abreu to Loney sounds like a nice chant. Yeah, we might need more offense from the middle infield, but I'd like to see what happens with that defensive combo.

I was not aware of Hu's second homer until right now. 7-29 with 2 homers and a triple is pretty encouraging, plus his 14 homers in the minors. I like what Hu is becoming, hopefully he can cut down on the k's.

348 - If you are the boss, then you can BS w/DT.

I wonder if the end of the Cleveland-New York game is as weird in real life as it seems online.

360 Your projection of 2009 up the middle really puts things in perspective for me. The up the middle analysis has proven to me to be extremely important. And that one for the D's is off the charts defensively. Offensively it might prove to be adequate also. I must admit I weight defense more importantly than most people I know. ( and in the majority of these cases it is valid). A surprisingly positive feeling about the result of taking the easy and cheap route.This would also leave plenty of money for starters or corner-men. Heck, if the D's used mostly home developed corner men(both inf. and outf.) they would be pretty good offensively. In 2009 they could spend 3/4 of their money an starting pitchers if they so chose. How hard is this.
I think I could even succeed as GM at this point. Only a fool could blow this. And I think I mean this sincerely.

359 I agree with you on the Nomar bonus situation. I put down $2.5 for 2009 when he signed his contract. Since that time apparently more refined information was released.

For Schmidt I have:

2007 $12.5M
2008 $12M + $3M bonus
2009 $12M + $4M bonus
2010 $2.5M bonus
2011 $1M bonus

The $10.5M bonus was spread over 2008-2011 I split the 2008 and 2009 $3M/$4M, but it could also be $3.5M/$3.5M. I have never seen anything definitive on the 2008-9 bonus split.

360 That should be "lets it happen" -- calling the apostrophe police on myself

361 Looking over his numbers and reports about him, Hu looks like a guy who should have middling power, a decent average and few walks. I think he should project to be B.J Surhoff offensively with above averagedefense at short.

Surhoff:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/surhob.01.shtml

364 "In 2009 they could spend 3/4 of their money an starting pitchers if they so chose."

All on short term contracts, I hope. I feel giddy when I look at the projected starting rotation for Jacksonville next year. If we believe the Baseball America projections, Kershaw, McDonald, and Elbert will anchor the rotation to start the season.

So, today was my fantasy football championship game. It was not looking good heading into today. I was basically playing the Cowboys, with Tony Romo, Marion Barber, TO PLUS LT, Adrian Peterson and the soldier Kellen Winslow. I am proud to announce the Long Beach Eagles, my rag tag bunch lead by Tom Brady, Greg Jennings, Ryan Grant, Brandon Marshall, Jamal Lewis, and Joseph Addai (yet to play) is leading 151-96 and poised to raise the trophy. Not that it matters now, but I am especially excited my last minute benching of Andre Johnson (for Marshall) paid off. Add that to my hatred of everything Cowboys, and it was an entertaining day. Very scintillating.

While I am ignorant of defensive metrics, and I won't even try to figure out how to weigh defense vs. offense, I do know that I generally prefer to watch beautiful defensive plays than homeruns. Not so much that I long for the days of Alex Cora at second, but I found myself incredibly frustrated when watching the Dodgers this year -- the noodle arms, Kent and Gonzo's inability to move. Hence, I am quite happy to note that this team will be improved defensively next year and could be spectacular in 2009.

367 I love the BJ Surhoff comparison. Hopefully he tears Vegas to pieces this year.

369 I might add that is the Vikings Adrian Peterson, not the Bears version.

Add that to my hatred of everything Cowboys

Umm... The Cowboys won today.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271209008

What position did BJ Surhoff play. Or plays--for some reason he sounds like a figure from the past. When defense flows, it always seems that life gets easier. I know it wasn't a great team, but I felt good when Cora, Izturus, and Beltre made a great DP.

yup, that defense was goose bump certified & times...

374 I gave a link so you could see for yourself. He played left field mostly. He played catcher for his first few years, but was pretty poor at the plate in those years. He retired after the 2005 season.

373 I know they won in real life, but the team I played was mostly comprised of Cowboys and they lost.

376- Do you think Hu will ever put up power numbers like B.J?....I think he will be much more similar to Orlando Cabrera...

http://tinyurl.com/2btfjy

New article up on Yahoo! Sports.

a little excerpt I liked.

and determining if Andruw Jones can throw Juan Pierre farther than Juan Pierre can throw a baseball

376 Thanks 55. sorry I didn't pick up on your link right away. I'm still somewhat bewildered about what led you to this comparison, although it is not unflattering.
BJ Surhoff---what an unusual path through the defensive positions--downright wierd. What connected the two for you. The strength that got me interested in Hu was that he seems to be a natural SS. No second baseman here, although some scouts are eager to jump that way. I remember reading reports from scouts, fans, and even a friend about the team of Abreu at second and Hu at SS, that all compared it to the circus coming to town(must have been A ball or possibly AA at one point). They seemed like acrobats at that point.

I've read & heard about there acrobats like connection but wasn't Hu & SS & Atenislao at 2nd base? they should be a nice duo but I kind of doubt they'll stay together it's just the nature of the business.

Yes Hu was at SS, and I think Etanislao( one of my favorite names of all time) was at second. They probably won't be together, because there is a wonderful logic in that happening, and it would free a team economically to be great. OH well.

Duke Snider, why? Why not!

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/snidedu01.php

In a 15 year stretch, which two teammates combined for the fourth most homeruns in the history of MLB?

im confused about all this power talk about Hu.
i have heard nothing other than he is strictly a singles hitter.

not that i have looked into it myself..

Defense is over rated. Important up the middle, to be sure, but defense (like speed) pales in comparison to OBP and slugging % as measures of a player.

regarding Hu defensively, he may not be anything special at the plate, but the kid is an exceptional fielder. He covers alot of ground and plays the position effortlessly. I saw him over a couple of years in the minors and the second year (last year at Jacksonville) he had improved dramatically at bat, The first year he seemed overmatched a lot. Abreu at AA didn't really stand out . He seemed like a utility man at best.Time will tell.
I saw Callix Crabbe about 7 or 8 games in AA. If he hits .220 in the majors I'll be surprised. He's fast and lacks any other tools.

New post up top.

380 How did I make the comparison? Well, I went to baseball-reference to look up Hu's minor league numbers. I then tried to look for guys compareable figuring that his numbers would be a little worse do to the higher quality of the major leagues though not much worse since he is still young and improving (albeit his 2007 may be an outlier- time will tell). I thought of Omar Vizquel and Dave Conception though neither had a slugging percentage near Hu's .424 in his minor league career. On Vizquel's most similar list however was B.J. Surhoff so I looked at his page and got exactly what I was looking for- a solid batting average, some power, and not many walks.

Actually, I just looked through some more shortstops and perhaps Alvin Dark might be a good comparison.