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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

December 13, 1956
2007-12-13 07:25
by Jon Weisman

On the 51st anniversary of the day the Dodgers announced they were trading Jackie Robinson to the Giants, John Klima writes about the legendary ballplayer for

Comments (71)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-13 07:30:30
1.   madmac
1st, really?
2007-12-13 07:37:25
2.   Bob Timmermann
Lally could have at least given Buzzie Bavasi a call to get his side of the story.
2007-12-13 07:39:41
3.   ToyCannon
His biography was probably the 1st baseball bio I ever read. At the age of 8 I was already well on my way to hating the Giants. If Jackie hated them so much that he wouldn't even play for them, they must indeed be evil. Of course what that says about a team that would trade him to a team they trained him to hate is another story for another day.
2007-12-13 07:40:53
4.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Robinson would have retired no matter who he was traded to. He was through.
2007-12-13 07:42:54
5.   LAT
Source says information on Clemens will be in Mitchell's report

Hopefully this will spare us the 2008 version of "I'm Roger Clemens and I am retired. . . I think. Maybe not. I'll let you know in a little while. Gotta go New York and Huston are calling."

Without Roger, what will ESPN do for its lead baseball story for the next three months?

2007-12-13 07:43:21
6.   ToyCannon
From the Jay Jaffe Chat:
RollingWave (Taiwan): Hi Jay, if you would name 5 active guys that you think might have a stronger hall case (or will have) than precieved, who would they be?

Jay Jaffe: It's very tough to analyze active players from a JAWS standpoint, at least until they pass their peaks, but the aforementioned trio of pitchers (Moose, Smoltz, and Schilling) come to mind, as do Andruw Jones (100.1/70.5/85.3 at a position where the benchmark is 113.4/66.9/90.1). Two years even as "bad" as last year (6.4) would put him over.

2007-12-13 07:46:25
7.   ToyCannon
I thought Clemens was going to join old friend Joe here in LA come August. He's never played on the right coast and wants to give it a shot.
2007-12-13 07:48:49
8.   JoeyP
5.---I dont think it would surprise many people. How many 44 yr olds can throw 95+ mph for an extended period of time without some sort of help?

The thing I'm wondering about is if Nomar is on the list, and if his inclusion on the list would make it easier for the Dodgers to dump him and go with LaRoche...

Nomar's been the center of most of the marketing for the Dodgers the last 2 years. I doubt that will continue if he's on the steroid list.

2007-12-13 07:54:06
9.   Ken Noe
I remember DePo making a rather odd, vague comment in the Times a few years ago that led me to wonder if he was purging the team of the juiced. It will be interesting to see if any former Dodgers are on that list. Current ones too, of course.
2007-12-13 08:00:48
10.   LAT
I don't think it (Sheffield) appropriate that we engage in (NOMAR) rank speculation about (GAGNE) which Dodgers (MOTA) may be on the Mitchell report.
2007-12-13 08:07:28
11.   LAT
7. Please no. We don't need that circus or waste of payroll.

8. Nomar will be lucky to have a starting job. I don't think he will be the focus of any marketing efforts. I expect the new face of the Dodgers will be A. Jones.

2007-12-13 08:09:17
12.   JL25and3
Please don't remind me that 1956 was 51 years ago.
2007-12-13 08:10:46
13.   Ken Noe
12 Me either. I was born in '57.
2007-12-13 08:26:57
14.   Eric Stephen
The A-Rod contract has been finalized. The details:

2008: $29m ($27m salary + $2m bonus)
2009: $33m ($32m salary + $1m bonus)
2010: $33m ($32m salary + $1m bonus)
2011: $32m ($31m salary + $1m bonus)
2012: $30m ($29m salary + $1m bonus)
2013: $29m ($28m salary + $1m bonus)
2014: $28m ($25m salary + $3m bonus)
2015: $21m
2016: $20m
2017: $20m

Total: 10 yrs, $275m

Plus bonuses of $6m for each of HR 660, 714, 755, Bonds (currently 762), Bonds + 1 (763).

2007-12-13 08:29:19
15.   D4P
Ah ha! I knew Clemens was a juicer. I love it.

Piazza gets his revenge! (Unless, of course, he's in the report too...)

2007-12-13 08:29:55
16.   D4P
I remember DePo making a rather odd, vague comment in the Times a few years ago that led me to wonder if he was purging the team of the juiced

I remember thinking that when Beltre left and Drew arrived.

2007-12-13 08:37:43
17.   old dodger fan
Well the good news is about 2 1/2 hours from now there won't be any more Pierre talk for awhile.
2007-12-13 08:41:20
18.   GMac In The 909
17 Unless of course Pierre is on the list.
2007-12-13 08:46:01
19.   old dodger fan
18 LOL. Now that would discredit the entire report.
2007-12-13 08:47:29
20.   Eric Stephen
Pierre has got to be the absolute least likely guy to be included on The List©, right? That would be hilarious.

Then again, who would have thought Alex Sanchez and/or Neifi! would have been suspended for steroids?

Is someone going to actually read aloud the list, maybe from a Santa's naughty or nice list type scroll?

2007-12-13 08:47:33
21.   D4P
I've seen "leaked" lists that include Offerman and Neifi!, among others.
2007-12-13 08:52:07
22.   JoeyP
THe leaked list I seen posted this morning included Pujols, Nomar, and Milton Bradley.
2007-12-13 08:52:38
23.   old dodger fan
What do we mean by a "list"? Will these be people that there is "proof" that they used PED's or will this be poeple that someone speculated that they did because their shirt size changed too much and they had acne on their backs. I really don't know what to make of this. Hopefully it will be clear this afternoon.
2007-12-13 08:56:12
24.   Ken Noe
23 Based on reports I've read today, it will be a mix of some real evidence and McCarthyite speculation about why player x needed a bigger cap.
2007-12-13 08:56:36
25.   JoeyP
Most of the evidence is coming from trainers and strength people===guys that either supplied or directly trained the athletes in question.

It'll be interesting Selig's reaction to it. If he takes a hardline, I expect lengthy suspensions for all the names on the list.

But I doubt he does. He'll probably just state that its all in the past, that the current testing program is working, and that there will not be any suspensions.

2007-12-13 08:57:03
26.   old dodger fan
Memo to Jon.
Press Enterprise blog has moved. The link on the right takes you to the old site and gives the link to the new site.
2007-12-13 08:57:04
27.   jones2929
Wow, Nomar and Gagne are on the list.

2007-12-13 08:58:13
28.   Benaiah
23 - I don't think a U.S. Senator who spent tens of millions of dollars would publish a list tarnishing the reputations (not to mention, possibly costing those named hundreds of millions of dollars) based on hearsay and circumstantial evidence. I think it was an open secret for years who was juicing and the evidence now will be damning. I am the opposite of giddy about this. This will be a huge blow for the game, the only question is how huge?
2007-12-13 08:58:43
29.   Marty
I was born in 1956. I know exactly how long ago that was :)
2007-12-13 08:58:54
30.   D4P
I don't know what the researchers actually expected, but I don't see how they could have reasonably expected to get "real evidence" that any given player used roids. At best, they might find paperwork suggesting that a player purchased stuff, but even then the player could just say they never used it. Or their doctor told them to use it. Or they bought it for a friend. Or they were part of an undercover sting operation.
2007-12-13 08:59:44
31.   D4P
I took flack around here for suggesting Pujols might be a user.
2007-12-13 08:59:49
32.   jones2929
And Mondesi, Offerman, Milton Bradley, Sheffield
2007-12-13 09:00:32
33.   D4P
And it looks like Sosa and Belle hit the daily double after all.

Hilarious. I guess cheaters sometimes win after all.

2007-12-13 09:01:03
34.   Marty
Wally Joiner!
2007-12-13 09:01:04
35.   Benaiah
Nomar is the only current Dodger on the list.
2007-12-13 09:02:00
36.   Ken Noe
Hmmm, two names I expected to see but didn't. Good.
2007-12-13 09:02:30
37.   Eric Stephen
That link should be discredited for the following quote:

"The list includes several heralded pitcuers, including Cy Young award winner Roger Clemen."

2007-12-13 09:02:41
38.   Ken Noe
34 Adds a whole new meaning to Wally "Absorbine" Joyner.
2007-12-13 09:03:43
39.   GMac In The 909
30 Or their dog ate it.
2007-12-13 09:03:49
40.   jones2929
Ismael Valdez!?!
2007-12-13 09:04:39
41.   Sushirabbit
I just hope Selig's name is prominent in the report. I doubt it. In fact, I'm sure he will be absolved. Count me among the skeptical.

I sure do get a lot of laughs here. Thanks everyone.

BTO, made me laugh. As well as the Logan's Run references. The Rankins would be on my All-Canada list as well as Barenaked Ladies (or did I miss them). I might even put Gordon or Maroon on my list.

2007-12-13 09:09:39
42.   old dodger fan
John Rocker, Raul Mondesi
2007-12-13 09:09:40
43.   MC Safety
Is there really any doubt that Big Papi used? I have no doubts he used something. Every time a microphone gets put in front of his face his guilty conscience starts talking. I find it hard to believe he is "organic" and got that big from drinking "Dominican milk shakes". Yet, I am not surprised.
2007-12-13 09:11:40
44.   regfairfield
43 He's never failed a test, never been named here, didn't suddenly become comically huge, so yeah, there's doubt.
2007-12-13 09:13:38
45.   Benaiah
43 - He isn't on the list, and it is important to note that being big or being small doesn't guarantee anything. David Ortiz is an enormous man, too big for his knees. He reminds me of Babe Ruth actually. Idle speculation about why anyone is a user irks me. Innocent until proven guilty, not guilty because he is a really big dude and you can't believe otherwise.
2007-12-13 09:14:48
46.   Ken Noe
37 Pitcuers, it's a NASCAR term, ie, "Hey come pit!"
2007-12-13 09:15:12
47.   Sam NYC
If Pujols is on the list, does that start to cast a negative light on LaRussa, whose best players were all cheating?
2007-12-13 09:18:27
48.   MC Safety
Huh? Did you see how big he was in Minnesota? Please dont use the he's never failed a test defense. Barry Bonds never failed a test, that defense has more holes than a wiffle ball.
2007-12-13 09:19:19
49.   ToyCannon
Beltre flexes his guns and says "fluke" this.
2007-12-13 09:21:56
50.   regfairfield
48 Barry Bonds also straight up admitted he used steroids.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-13 09:21:57
51.   JoeyP
If Beltre wasnt on the juice for 2004, then I guess his season was indeed the fluke of all flukes, since there's no rhyme or reason how he performed that well.
2007-12-13 09:25:50
52.   MC Safety
45 He actually reminds me of Maurice Vaughn.
2007-12-13 09:25:54
53.   ssjames
51 Beltre's 2004 season I will always believe was based entirely upon his ankle problem that year which kept him from chasing balls low and away and looking instead for his pitch to hit. Of course that doesn't imply he was or was not using, but I think if he used he did before, and that was only a secondary cause to his success that season. He has more raw talent than almost any player the Dodgers have had in the last 15 years, he just never conquered pitch recognition.
2007-12-13 09:26:31
54.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't care about steroids, so I'm spending the morning watching Ike and Tina clips on YouTube. Some really great stuff, including the dirtiest version of I've Been Loving You Too Long, I've ever seen (it's fantastic).
2007-12-13 09:29:10
55.   Benaiah
Here are pictures of David Ortiz as a Twin, wow he was tiny, er not really.

If anything it looks like he has been eating a lot since his time with the Twins.

2007-12-13 09:29:33
56.   MC Safety
50 Exactly. Why does Big Papi get so defensive though if he is in fact all natural and organic? Im not buying it, especially with George Mitchell at the helm. If Papi is on any team other than the Sox he gets outed.
2007-12-13 09:29:43
57.   jasonungar07
Plus just because your not on this particular list doesn't mean you didn't use.
2007-12-13 09:31:20
58.   MC Safety
Look at that first picture! My goodness! Nuff said.
2007-12-13 09:31:31
59.   tsundstrom
I hope we don't see Mike Piazza on that list...even if he goes to the Hall of Fame as a Met I just want to believe that he's not one of these guys.


2007-12-13 09:31:40
60.   ToyCannon
When BP did a study on fluke seasons I don't think he was that high. Probably because of his age 21 year old season which was one of the top ten season ever for a 21 year old 3rd baseman. I'll try to find the study.
2007-12-13 09:36:13
61.   Eric Stephen
I know this is anecdotal, but I always thought Beltre's left ankle injury helped him in 2004 because it made him keep his weight back in the batter's box.

I would never wish injury upon anyone (that's a lie) but a little Kathy Bates "hobbling" might do Beltre some good! :)

2007-12-13 09:37:28
62.   Eric Stephen
I swear I started typing my post before yours, but I had to walk away from my desk for a moment! :)
2007-12-13 09:40:34
63.   Benaiah
58 - He is a huge, huge guy in that picture. The same round face, big forearms and tree trunk legs that he has now, only he obviously hung another hundred pounds on that frame. Barry Bonds was a speed guy who bulked up, David Ortiz was always a huge guy who morphed from a very good 1B to a DH.

Not being in the report certainly doesn't prove someone didn't juice, but you have zero proof, you just think he must have done steroids. I hope he didn't and until I see any evidence I am going to assume he is innocent.

2007-12-13 09:41:34
64.   paranoidandroid
27 That link doesn't show me a list. Anyone else have a link?

Did anyone see the Hebrew Hammer (Shawn Green) on the list?

I know he's not really a relevant player right now, but he gave me a lot of good memories and gave some of us tribe members something a bit more to cheer for.

2007-12-13 09:42:24
65.   ucladodger

Well, hes not on the leaked list. Basically everyone on the list is someone i assumed was involved, and there arent really any surprises.

2007-12-13 09:43:59
66.   ucladodger
This is the leaked list. i'm not sure if its 100% correct, but I'd imagine it is close.

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi
Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, IJason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

2007-12-13 09:46:01
67.   overkill94
20 The only reason guys like Alex Sanchez and Neifi Perez took steroids was because their scrappiness had been lacking and they needed a boost. We all know Pierre's got more scrappy than he knows what to do with.
2007-12-13 09:47:25
68.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-12-13 09:49:56
69.   kinbote
66 Say it ain't so, John Rocker. His legacy will be forever tarnished!
2007-12-13 10:09:22
70.   Gilberto Reyes
It's good to find out that Beltre and Gonzo are not on the list. I was expecting to see Piazza!
2007-12-14 17:35:49
71.   Joe Pierre
I'll never forget the day Robby was traded. It was a shock that he was traded, his career went along, in such a way that it was impossible to think of him in another uniform. He just belonged to this team. The biggest part of the shock was that he was traded to our behated Giants. It was wonderful news when he said, "Hell no, I won't go".

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