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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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Bennett To Back Up Martin
2007-12-17 13:19
by Jon Weisman

Backup catcher Gary Bennett has signed a one-year deal with the Dodgers, the team announced today. You may have seen his name in the news recently, but my memory of him will always be this: "Jordan knocks Bennett into Chinatown."

Comments (159)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-17 13:24:12
1.   natepurcell
Our team is tainted again!
2007-12-17 13:26:22
2.   Humma Kavula
What's the over/under on Gary Bennett starts? 20?
2007-12-17 13:26:32
3.   Eric Stephen
That was the hardest I've ever seen a catcher hit, surpassing J.Clark/Scioscia and Erstad/Estrada.
2007-12-17 13:26:36
4.   hernari
Is this guy a glutton for punishment or what?

2007-12-17 13:27:47
5.   D4P
Bennett's career 64 OPS+ was HGH-aided.
2007-12-17 13:27:56
6.   Eric Enders
Ugh. Gary Bennett has always been one of those players I just can't stand and I can't explain why. He's just always seemed like a jerk, although if I have actual concrete reasons for thinking that they've faded into oblivion.

Well, I guess the Dodgers will still be able to claim they had nobody named in the Mitchell report at the time the report actually came out.

2007-12-17 13:29:06
7.   Humma Kavula
5 At the risk of violating rule 8...

It doesn't really matter what Bennett used to get whatever his terrible OPS+ is. He'll never play.

2007-12-17 13:29:17
8.   Eric Stephen
Keith Law on Kuroda: fringy stuff guy, should benefit from being in the NL and Dodger Stadium (a slight pitchers park), and a slight upgrade over Esteban Loaiza as the 5th starter.

I don't think the ESPNews host knew his subject as he asked Law, "Kuroda's not the Dodgers' #1, is he?" Why can't Brian Kenny be on ESPNews 24/7?

2007-12-17 13:30:34
9.   Eric Enders
If this was the alternative, then why the heck didn't we exercise the Lieberthal option? Who really cares if we would have been overpaying him? What's another $600,000?

Ned's first misstep of the offseason. It may not seem like much, but he's probably sentenced Martin to another year of overwork.

2007-12-17 13:32:09
10.   Eric Stephen
2 20 is a good number (non-Russ got 19 starts in 2007). I might go just a tad higher (25?) thinking Russ might get an occasional extra day off.
2007-12-17 13:32:13
11.   trainwreck
Makes no sense when McCourt keeps bragging about how no current Dodgers were in the Mitchell Report.

It just goes to show how useless that report was for actual baseball. A completely media driven story.

2007-12-17 13:34:19
12.   natepurcell

Maybe Keith Law can find Kuroda's groundball rates.

2007-12-17 13:35:28
13.   Eric Stephen
Nice to see we were complaining about the Dodger 3rd base coach as far back as 2003. Some things never change.

Let's hope Larry Bowa doesn't uphold this tradition.

2007-12-17 13:35:34
14.   Jon Weisman
3 - Parker-Yeager. No. 1.
2007-12-17 13:35:49
15.   Wilbert Robinson
8 it does actually seem like a valid question considering when you look at this:

*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$12,300,000 Hiroki Kuroda
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt

2007-12-17 13:37:02
16.   D4P
Shouldn't a story like this at least mention "Shawshenk Redemption"...?

2007-12-17 13:37:45
17.   natepurcell

If you include his bonus, Schmidt makes more.

2007-12-17 13:38:46
18.   wronghanded
14 That was a great one but I think Pete Rose and Brian Jordan (a couple of times) might argue otherwise.
2007-12-17 13:39:51
19.   Penarol1916
My daughter just called me at work with some of the oddest homework questions. Does anyone know of any synonyms or antonyms for "Snowman"? I did snow person for synonym, but that sounds like the stupidest assignment I've ever heard.
2007-12-17 13:40:54
20.   Eric Stephen
Antonym for Snowman: Falcon?
2007-12-17 13:41:22
21.   wronghanded
19 antonym- waterwoman?
2007-12-17 13:42:07
22.   Bob Timmermann
I'm on the case of finding out Kuroda's GO/FO ratio, but I may not have an answer for a few days.

It's likely that NPB keeps the stats, but they don't publish them online and/or in English.

2007-12-17 13:43:25
23.   Jon Weisman
19 - Heatmeiser.
2007-12-17 13:43:53
24.   Eric Stephen
This makes two straight years the Dodgers have signed a backup catcher who was drafted by the Phillies in 1990.
2007-12-17 13:44:08
25.   bhsportsguy
40-man roster is now full.

25-man roster as of 12/17/2007 1:30 p.m. PST

Pitchers (9)
Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Kuroda, Loiaza, Proctor, Beimel, Broxton, and Saito
Catchers (2)
Martin, Bennett
Infield (5)
Loney, Kent, Furcal, Garciaparra, LaRoche
Outfield (4)
Kemp, Ethier, Jones, and Pierre

Pitchers (2-3 from this group):
Schmidt, Meloan, Kuo, Brazoban, Hull, Houlton, Stults, or NRI
Infield (1-2):
Abreu, Hu, Valdez, Sweeney, or NRI
Outfield (1):
Young, Repko

2007-12-17 13:45:07
26.   wronghanded
I got it... Sun Goddess
2007-12-17 13:46:53
27.   bhsportsguy
23 Off the top of my head.

"I'm Mister Heatmiser, I'm Mister Sun;
I'm Mister Heatmiser, I'm Mister hundred and one;
They call me Heatmiser, whatever touch, simplys turns into mush, he's too much."

2007-12-17 13:47:16
28.   Ken Noe
Man, Camille leaves and McCourt's PR goes to pot.

19 "Yeti" works if the snowman is, well, abominable.

2007-12-17 13:49:12
29.   Eric Enders
24 Next year we'll have Marvin Benard.
2007-12-17 13:49:55
30.   Bob Timmermann
Messrs. Rankin and Bass have made Christmastime truly a nightmare of bad programming for those of us in the tail end of the Baby Boom or vanguard of Generation X.

I'm still shopping for a generation.

2007-12-17 13:50:34
31.   Eric Stephen
Wasn't he also in the Mitchell Report?
2007-12-17 13:50:57
32.   Ken Noe
Tony Jackson says that Bennett will cost $325,000 less than Liberthal. Diamond Leung says that McCourt's okay with HGH users as long as they've owned up, as Bennett has.
2007-12-17 13:51:11
33.   Bob Timmermann
Yep, and this guy from the New Republic is way too fascinated with Marvin Benard.

2007-12-17 13:52:02
34.   Bob Timmermann
My St. Louis connection says that Gary Bennett will not be missed there.
2007-12-17 13:52:34
35.   Eric Enders
I'm fine with HGH users, too. I'm not fine with catchers who stink, though. Lieberthal would have been worth $325K more than Bennett.
2007-12-17 13:52:45
36.   Humma Kavula
20 is the winner. The quickest answer and the best so far.
2007-12-17 13:52:57
37.   GobiasIndustries
How bout Pete Rose and Ray Fosse in the 1970 All-Star game. That was a gooooooood one.
2007-12-17 13:56:18
38.   Wilbert Robinson
I remember reading somewhere that GORO was Japanese for groundball. It was coined by Issei in WRA camps. It comes from "goro goro" in Japanese which means thunder or the sound of something rolling.
2007-12-17 13:58:24
39.   Eric Enders
In case you were wondering, Bennett in his career has thrown out 71 of 326 basestealers (21.8 percent). His catcher's ERA is 4.64.
2007-12-17 13:59:53
40.   underdog
Yeah, I agree with Eric, I don't understand why we didn't resign Lieberthal, who clearly wanted to be in LA, is a good guy, and already knows most of the pitching staff. I guess they felt like the extra money was too much to justify for someone only getting 20 starts, but still...

Oh well, at least he's not Chad Kreuter, still my least favorite all-time Dodger backup catcher.

2007-12-17 14:00:48
41.   trainwreck
I miss Chad Moeller.
2007-12-17 14:01:52
42.   Eric Stephen
Great. Can't hit. Doesn't throw out runners.

Perfect for a backup C. Lieberthal must have reacted Kemp-like (trash can) when Gonzo and the gang gave him flowers and balloons when he started late last year. :)

2007-12-17 14:02:58
43.   Eric Stephen
Is the lack of Kreuter love because of the Wrigley incident? I kind of liked Chad.
2007-12-17 14:03:29
44.   Bob Timmermann
Chad Kreuter was the first Dodger DH to hit a home run!
2007-12-17 14:03:37
45.   Disabled List
What a worthless signing. What good is Gary Bennett going to do? He's completely washed up, can't hit major-league pitching, and his very presence will stain the Dodgers because of his past impropriety. Also, I always thought Gary Bennett was completely heartless for those nasty things he said about the female kicker at Colorado that he kicked off the team. The Buffaloes were like Animal House when he was in charge of that program. I can't understand why the Dodgers would sign a jerk like him, especially because he's a former football coach, not a catch-- ohhhh wait, that's Gary Barnett.


2007-12-17 14:04:17
46.   Humma Kavula
OK, now I'm really going to violate Rule 8, but this signing does kind of beg us to do it. It's like the Andruw Jones signing and talking about Juan Pierre...

Do the Dodgers have any long-term plan to preserve Martin? Surely they realize that he is the very best asset that the team has, because he can hit and he plays catcher. Catchers have a short shelf-life, career-wise.

I realize that arguing about a team's backup catcher is a little pedantic, but how long can the team keep running Martin out there every day before our Golden God will be tarnished?

2007-12-17 14:08:53
47.   regfairfield
I'd really like to see the Dodgers go after J.R. House and make him the backup plan in case he gets hurt. Guy put up an OPS over .800 in the biggest pitchers park in baseball, he deserves a shot.
2007-12-17 14:09:48
48.   underdog
43 He was a hothead. And a former coworker of mine went to school with him and said he used to get in fights all the time. But maybe I missed the nicer side of him. Gary Bennett could well take his spot though.
2007-12-17 14:11:00
49.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume Kreuter has mellowed out or else USC wouldn't have hired him.
2007-12-17 14:21:47
50.   berkowit28
35 Lieberthal would have been worth $325K more than Bennett.

In which ways?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-17 14:22:54
51.   TheBigGrabowski
Well, this destroys my dream of having Piazza back up Martin.
2007-12-17 14:22:58
52.   madmac
Just curious. What could Ned do to make everyone here happy? It's the backup catcher who won't see many innings. If it doesn't work out it won't be too hard to find another one.

I'm not convinced that had he kept Leiberthal around there wouldn't be the same complaints. Heck Ned has pretty much done everything the majority here hoped he would do. So without anything really to complain about it's Kuroda isn't very good and he's overpaid (granted that's the minority). Others refuse to give Ned credit and insist he's being forced to hold onto the kids.

I guess we're lucky if we have to try and find things to complain about.

2007-12-17 14:23:09
53.   Sagehen
I keep wondering about Lieberthal because resigning him was such an obvious move. Was there something we don't know about? Was he one of the complaining vets? (although who could blame him) Was he the focus of the complaints coming from Gonzo and Kent about vets not getting respect (and hence caught in the middle while remaining a good guy himself)? Did he ask to go elsewhere so that he could play? Did the pitching staff complain about his game calling? (Hence explaining some of Martin's overuse). I just have to wonder if there's something else going on here because if not, this really truly appears to be a birdbrained move.
2007-12-17 14:24:39
54.   Sagehen
Yes, it's the backup catcher, so perhaps we shouldn't be complaining. But there is little to no depth at catcher in the organization. If, heaven forbid, Martin goes down briefly, there is no satisfactory backup. At least with Lieberthal, we knew that he could play for two weeks if necessary.
2007-12-17 14:24:48
55.   Eric Enders
50 Well, the injury insurance aspect, for one. If Martin gets hurt, Lieberthal is a guy who could conceivably fill in on a temporary basis. With Bennett as your backup, if Martin pulls a hamstring and goes on the DL for three weeks, you're still going to have to go trade something of value to get a real catcher.
2007-12-17 14:25:02
56.   dzzrtRatt
20 Antonym: Sludgeman?

How many times did Lieberthal pinch hit last season? My recollection is he was used a few times in that role. Bennett is just a space plug on the 25-man roster. Irritating signing.

2007-12-17 14:26:29
57.   Sagehen
Please tell me that Bennett has a split contract so that he will start the year in AAA and serve as the third string catcher? Please, oh please. This can't be it.
2007-12-17 14:26:58
58.   Eric Enders
How about snowwoman?
2007-12-17 14:27:40
59.   Sagehen
58 Sunwoman.
2007-12-17 14:28:17
60.   Eric Stephen
Gary Bennett wore number 28 the last two seasons with St. Louis. Shea Hillenbrand wore that number with LA last year.
2007-12-17 14:28:46
61.   Eric Enders
Is the opposite of snow "sun," or "water"?


2007-12-17 14:29:08
62.   FirstMohican
52 - When the Dodgers signed Kuroda/Jones nobody here (as far as I know) took anything away from those singings because of Ned's past bad moves.

To answer your question, I think this offseason overall has made a number of skeptical people reasonably happy, including me.

2007-12-17 14:29:35
63.   regfairfield
52 My concerns about Kuroda are completely valid. I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining.
2007-12-17 14:30:40
64.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Lieberthal was 3 for 9 as a pinch hitter in 2007.
2007-12-17 14:31:20
65.   Sagehen
61 Aquawoman
2007-12-17 14:32:06
66.   Eric Stephen
Lieberthal pinch hit 9 times last season(3 for 9), and stayed in 3 of those games as catcher.
2007-12-17 14:32:30
67.   Sagehen
60 Ah, so that explains it! Bennett was signed because the Dodgers MUST have someone who can neither hit nor field to wear #28.
2007-12-17 14:32:52
68.   Eric Enders
Bennett has 41 career pinch hitting appearances in which he is batting .175/.195/.200.
2007-12-17 14:34:23
69.   regfairfield
To be fair, it's going to be really hard for Bennett to be worse than Lieberthal was last year.
2007-12-17 14:37:29
70.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
To me, the opposite of snow would be fire.

I actually like the Bennett signing. If the Dodgers can make the playoffs, I'd say Bennett is the perfect candidate for "unlikely postseason hero."

2007-12-17 14:38:29
71.   madmac
62 I think the attitude has gotten better, but then just the other day there is a post how maybe it's best the dodgers don't make the post-season so Ned will lose his job. Why such hate?
2007-12-17 14:38:33
72.   regfairfield
70 Quite unlikely, since there's no way he'd ever touch a bat in the post season.
2007-12-17 14:39:24
73.   Eric Stephen
True. Only 21 men post-integration have had more plate appearances with one or less RBI than Lieberthal in 2007.

2007-12-17 14:39:42
74.   StolenMonkey86
Is Joe Torre less likely to run Martin into the ground?
2007-12-17 14:39:59
75.   Humma Kavula
I wouldn't necessarily advocate re-signing Liberthal, but considering that for most of last year, Martin's overuse (or potential overuse) was a big topic of conversation, I think many of us thought that it was an area that could be addressed by getting a backup catcher that the team could rely upon. To see the potential problem addressed this way shows that the Dodgers don't see it as a problem. And maybe it isn't... but it's not a bet that I'd make.
2007-12-17 14:40:38
76.   Eric Enders
I guess I prefer the likely postseason heroes. But it's an interesting thought, compiling a roster of guys who everybody expects to suck.

Do we still have Tomas Perez?

2007-12-17 14:41:53
77.   kinbote
After a day of catching up on the weekend's posts, I have a few general reactions, mostly about the Kuroda signing.

1. I really disagee with this notion of Kuroda's having "no upside." True, it's unlikely he'll win 20 games or finish in the top five of the Cy Young vote, but it's possible he could achieve a great level of success here. It's entirely possible he could be our 3rd best pitcher this year, and on a contending team, that's not small potatoes.

2. While the amount of money spent is a bit alarming, I think the true test of fiscal prudence [i.e., saving for the future--whether it's Martin, Kemp, or Santana] will come next offseason. I count about $47m coming off the books next offseason: that's when we need to decide what direction we're heading. I hate to sound like Colletti, but we're still smack in the middle of that transition/bridge period where we're just adding veterans to supplement the youngsters.

3. I have no opinion of Bennet. All I ask is that he's better with the bat than Bako.

2007-12-17 14:43:30
78.   regfairfield
74 Posada has caught at least 131 games since 2000.
2007-12-17 14:44:00
79.   D4P
Is Bennett better than all of our minor league catchers...?

Heck, is he better than any?

2007-12-17 14:46:05
80.   trainwreck
How about a firebird.

So you could either say a phoenix or a car.

2007-12-17 14:46:22
81.   Humma Kavula
74 Jorge Posada, games caught:

2007 - 138
2006 - 134
2005 - 133
2004 - 134
2003 - 137
2002 - 138

Last year, the Yankees' backup was Jose Molina. In 2006, Kelly Stinett. In 2003, 2004, and 2005, John Flaherty.

2007-12-17 14:46:28
82.   madmac
63 I'm not singling anyone out or saying your concerns aren't valid. My point is he is doing basically what the majority here wanted. It's not his fault the free agent market is what it is. It's not his fault teams won't accept trades with us that don't involve our ML players. What should he have done on the pitching front? I haven't seen anyone offer up another solution. I think I'd rather have Kuroda right now than go with our in house options. Sure Kuroda is a gamble, but one that I think is in our favor and puts the Dodgers in a better position than they were 4 days ago.
2007-12-17 14:47:12
83.   Lexinthedena
Lieberthal seemed lost behind the plate last year..and the Dodger's didn't win when he pitched.....I have not seen Bennet play in a long time....but people should keep their eyes open with Rene Rivera.....Not sure if he can hit in the Majors...but I watched him play against Leones De Caracas during the Caribbean WS and he was excellent behind the plate.....I hope he is given the chance to win the job over Bennet...
2007-12-17 14:47:50
84.   regfairfield
82 Hold the fort, our pitching is fine. We are a better team in 2008, but I'm concered about what it means in the future.

79 I'd say he's better than all of them. They're really, really bad.

2007-12-17 14:48:43
85.   Eric Enders
Probably our three most promising minor league catchers (May, Santana, Jansen) all played at various steps of Class A last year, so I don't think we can count on any help from the system in 2008 (or perhaps over the next 4-5 years, as those guys aren't realy great prospects anyway).

Logan White needs to draft a few catchers. Perhaps in 2009, when we'll have as many as seven first round picks (our own, plus compensation picks for Lowe, Penny, Furcal, possibly even Kent).

2007-12-17 14:49:16
86.   regfairfield
83 He's only 24, but he hit .214/.275/.310 in AA last year. He's part of the really, really bad that I mentioned.
2007-12-17 14:50:12
87.   regfairfield
85 Penny isn't going anywhere next year, there's no reason to not pick up a 9.5 million dollar option.
2007-12-17 14:50:27
88.   berkowit28
55 I must have missed where someone has posted comparison stats on Bennett vs. Lieberthal fielding and batting. The only stats I've seen were in the report:

"[Bennett] hit .252 with two homers and 17 RBIs in 155 at-bats in 2007....Bennett replaces Mike Lieberthal, who hit .234 with no homers and one RBI in only 77 at-bats as Martin's backup."

FWIW, those don't seem actually worse. So there must be other stats to make many people so contemptuous of him. Yes?

Also FWIW, I liked Lieberthal: he seemed a nice guy. He was used throughout the season more as a package with Wolf, who's gone.

Let's say it was time to start resting Martin twice as much as last year. Wouldn't we need someone better and younger than either Lieberthal or Bennett? And more expensive? Might it not make sense to wait until sometime mid-season to look for one of those, when they'll be both more plentiful and cheaper? Then Bennett will become the 3rd-string catcher. I can't see how getting Lieberthal helps in this scenario. Use the money towards the more expensive guy mid-season.

2007-12-17 14:51:50
89.   Eric Enders
87 Oh, I didn't even realize we had a Penny option. I thought he was FA after this year.

Still the worst trade in franchise history, though.

2007-12-17 14:52:19
90.   Eric Stephen
Dodgers hold a relatively cheap $9.25m 2009 option on Penny, so I hope they don't lose him after 2008.

Lieberthal started 17 games for the Dodgers last season, and the team was 3-14 in those games. Ouch.

2007-12-17 14:52:30
91.   Eric Enders
88 Two words: Sample Size.
2007-12-17 14:52:38
92.   bhsportsguy
85 He drafts them but usually only for filler on the Rookie clubs. He's looking for the next Russell Martin (conversion project, see Lucas May and Carlos Santana)

I don't think he would ever use a top ten round pick on a catcher (Mike Nixon anyone).

I say that will checking the records so I will be proven wrong, I know it.

2007-12-17 14:53:41
93.   D4P
Still the worst trade in franchise history, though

Actually, we're allowed to revisit the trade iff Depo traded Lo Duca for steroid reasons.

2007-12-17 14:54:04
94.   Daniel Zappala
My antonym for snowman: puddle.
2007-12-17 14:55:12
95.   Humma Kavula
Not knowing much about John Flaherty, I decided to look him up. After all, the Yankees had been pretty happy with him, re-signing him twice. How did he lose his job?

Answer: he turned 37. Or he got unlucky. Either way, after following up campaigns of .267/.297/.457 and .252/.286/.465, his hits didn't fall and he lost his power and batted a positively anemic .165/.206/.252 in 2005. That is an OPS+ of 23. Joe Torre gave him 127 at-bats to do that.

2007-12-17 14:55:58
96.   Bob Timmermann
The puddle was Frosty's fate when he went someplace warm.
2007-12-17 14:56:13
97.   Eric Enders
Humanoid figure built on top of the snow = snowman
Humanoid figure depressed into the snow = snow angel
2007-12-17 14:57:31
98.   Humma Kavula
88 Also, see my post in 75 . Lieberthal was clearly a problem last year, considering how much we complained about Martin's lack of rest. I disagree with Enders -- I thought he had to be replaced. Bennett does not do that adequately.
2007-12-17 14:57:33
99.   madmac
84 I really think this solution bodes better for our future than the other options. We needed to try and improve our pitching this year. We did what we had to do. Three years isn't bad. Trading away our future (and present) would have been worse. I really don't see this signing as holding up our young pitchers, but it probably buys them some needed time.
2007-12-17 14:59:14
100.   D4P
Gurnick is predicting (just his opinion) that Pierre will bat 8th.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-17 14:59:53
101.   Eric Enders
98 I'm OK with the notion that Lieberthal should have been improved upon. It's just that we don't know whether there were any genuine options for doing that.

What we do know for a fact is that Ned was able to choose between Lieberthal and Bennett, and chose Bennett despite Lieberthal being the obviously better pick.

2007-12-17 15:01:57
102.   D4P
At $825,000, I think it's say to conclude that Bennett will be overpaid. Does he really deserve more than twice the major league minimum?
2007-12-17 15:03:44
103.   Bob Timmermann
You think mendicant orders of monks are overpaid.
2007-12-17 15:06:00
104.   regfairfield
102 I don't think it matters.
2007-12-17 15:06:34
105.   Humma Kavula
I know he really isn't all that good, but I miss Dioner Navarro.

Or, as he was once called by the LA Dogtrainer, "De Owner of De Area behind De Plate."

2007-12-17 15:06:40
106.   D4P
Paying someone $825,000 to stop the ball from hitting the umpire/going to the backstop 20 games a year is an awful lot.

I hope some reporter makes Ned say something good about Bennett. He can't say he's good on offense, can't say he's good on defense, and can't brag about his character.

What's left?

2007-12-17 15:08:09
107.   MC Safety
100 And he even penciled in LaRoche at 3b on top of putting the Rolen rumor to rest! I am convinced someone said something.
2007-12-17 15:09:58
108.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
Well, for starters, Bennett has been a part of some very good ballclubs. Also, he has spent his entire career in the NL, which is a clear bonus.

At least, that's what I imagine him saying.

2007-12-17 15:10:05
109.   Humma Kavula
103 Stupid monks. And here I am, paying my mortgage, like a sucker.
2007-12-17 15:11:28
110.   trainwreck
He will say he has been there before, is a veteran, and he will say he is a good defensive catcher or good at calling the game.

After his comment about Pierre getting on base a lot, he may say anything.

2007-12-17 15:11:41
111.   MC Safety
103 Hilarious.
2007-12-17 15:11:47
112.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
108 was meant for 106.
2007-12-17 15:13:10
113.   D4P
He will say he has been there before

Where: the bench?

2007-12-17 15:13:53
114.   Reiichi
19 Synonyms: Frosty? Iceman? Dihydrogen monoxide anthropoid?

Antonyms: Human Torch? Tommy Trojan circa USC/UCLA football game? Pele? Kary?

I like 28 the most.

2007-12-17 15:14:59
115.   uclasway
May could be a decent hitter, but only recently switched to catching. Santana is supposedly very good defensively and may be a good enough 2009 backup C unless we think he'll be better off working on his swing in AAA.
As for Colletti, I'm still waiting for someone to depitct what he's done that you're so impressed with. I like Jones and Kuroda, Ethier for Bradley, Saito (diamond in the rough, thank you international scouting dept.), Betemit for Proctor, and Gonzo, but hated Pierre, Nomar's deal, and trading for Lugo. Other deals to debate are overpaying for Furcal, 16 mil a year if he knew Schmidt had arm problems, and Loaiza.
I think Colletti's been fortunate to have good contracts for Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Kent, and Martin in place and years of talent built up by Evans, Depodesta and Logan White most importantly.

At the end of the day, I'd like to have a young, intelligent front office guy running the Dodgers using a more readily apparent combination of stats and scouts, but that's me.

2007-12-17 15:15:19
116.   natepurcell
Dear D4P,

Count the ringzzz baby!


Gary Bennett

2007-12-17 15:17:53
117.   Humma Kavula
115 Ned takes a pretty good beating around these parts.

What people like about this offseason is that he hasn't done anything patently stupid, like, say, signing Aaron Rowand or trading four major leaguers under 25 for Santana or Cabrera. Since nothing inherently dumb was done, most are cheering.

Perhaps the bar is set too low. Perhaps not.

2007-12-17 15:19:42
118.   MC Safety
117 The bar that is Juan Pierre.
2007-12-17 15:20:48
119.   ibleedbloo
I was at that game. The hardest hit I have ever seen in person. Hardest hit by far.

2007-12-17 15:21:42
120.   Humma Kavula
118 Ya know, I can get behind "The Bar" as a nickname for Pierre.

It's what's set very low.
It's where you go when you watch Pierre bat.

2007-12-17 15:24:54
121.   silverwidow
Where would Kuroda rank in our Top 10 prospects? For me, probably right behind Kershaw & LaRoche.
2007-12-17 15:25:12
122.   Eric Stephen
Gurnick also mentioned a rumor of Wilson Valdez possibly being sold to a team in Japan or Korea.
2007-12-17 15:29:02
123.   jasonungar07
Let's trade Toby Hall, Mark Hendrickson, and cash for Navarro...
2007-12-17 15:31:21
124.   dkminnick
What a ridiculous move this is. Your back-up catcher should ideally serve two purposes: occasional starts and, more importantly, injury insurance.

Anybody can start 25 games, no big deal, but if Russell goes down, I want Lieberthal. Good god, Ned.

And for the record, I'm a fan of the Kuroda signing. I'm not a blanket Ned-basher.

2007-12-17 15:32:31
125.   regfairfield
121 In terms of potential, or immediate performance?
2007-12-17 15:34:31
126.   D4P
As has been noted, if Martin gets hurt, Bennett won't be used as the backup. Ned'll have to get someone else.

BTW: Where does Bennett rank in terms of the worst players in the league?

2007-12-17 15:34:43
127.   Bob Timmermann
Is Hidoki Kuroda the new DT litmus test?
2007-12-17 15:36:15
128.   regfairfield
126 Still plenty of room on the J.R. House love train.
2007-12-17 15:38:02
129.   Humma Kavula
127 Bob's pH is 7.0.
2007-12-17 15:38:20
130.   Jon Weisman
127 - No, he actually criss-crosses party lines, I think.
2007-12-17 15:42:11
131.   uclasway
Besides Logan White's willingness bold stance on Kuroda (, the best part about the Kuroda signing is it prevents Colletti from signing Carlos Silva or Kyle Lohshe (both may get 4-5 years at 11-14 million, which in 2 months will make Kuroda look like a steal) or trading major prospects for Bedard or Blanton.
2007-12-17 15:42:33
132.   El Lay Dave
88 Mike Lieberthal, at one time, was a legitimate starting catcher. His career numbers (.274 .337 .446 101) are for 4695 PAs, with 4 seasons over 100 OPS+ and 4 over 90 OPS+. Gary Bennett is a never-was who is almost always around his career numbers (.242 .303 .327 64, 1853 PAs); from 2001-present his OPS+ has ranged from 55 to 66.

Maybe Lieberthal is done, but Bennett is the same age.

2007-12-17 15:47:01
133.   jasonungar07
Maybe Lieberthal wants to actually play a little??

Here is what Gurnick thinks our line up will be. I am so shocked he has LaRoche there over Nomar.

1. Rafael Furcal, SS
2. Russell Martin, C
3. Matt Kemp, RF
4. Andruw Jones, CF
5. Jeff Kent, 2B
6. James Loney, 1B
7. Andy LaRoche, 3B
8. Juan Pierre, LF

2007-12-17 15:47:57
134.   madmac
115 really not sure who you are directing this to. It also wasn't very clear what you liked or disliked. Certainly no GM will make moves that everyone agrees with. What does seem clear to me is that you will only be happy with success is if it is done the way you want it done. Whether Ned is intelligent or not is only an opinion. Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them or you stupid.
2007-12-17 15:50:41
135.   El Lay Dave
from the ESPN article on Kuroda Nate linked in the previous topic:

"When [Carp manager Marty] Brown arrived to take over his former club in 2006, he began putting his 6-foot-1, 190-pound ace on a pitch count, while shifting him as much as possible to four days' rest instead of six."

One hopes this helped greatly in the preparation for the workload Kuroda will be expected to carry for the Dodgers.

2007-12-17 15:54:09
136.   regfairfield
135 When you combine this with the fact that he sort of collapsed in the second half, it gets a bit concerning.
2007-12-17 15:56:43
137.   trainwreck
I think he collapsed, because he was injured. I am surprised more people have not raised that as an issue.
2007-12-17 15:58:27
138.   Humma Kavula
137 What was the injury?
2007-12-17 15:59:11
139.   El Lay Dave
136 Well, it worked for him in '06, though. (Unless that was what precipitated the Nov. 2006 elbow surgery.) The manager blames the weak second-half on distractions:

Brown believes his righty was looking away from the small-market Carp, who had finished in the bottom of the Central League for 10 straight seasons.

"There were some promises made to him [Kuroda], about what the team would do to keep him, and most of those did not materialize," Brown said. "We were going to be more competitive, and then there was all the focus on [Tomonori] Maeda."

2007-12-17 16:01:28
140.   trainwreck
Elbow issue, I believe he had bone chips.
2007-12-17 16:05:26
141.   El Lay Dave
138 Wikipedia merely states this, uncited:

"During the 2006 off-season, he traveled to the United States to receive cleaning surgery in his right elbow at the suggestion of manager Marty Brown."

2007-12-17 16:10:03
142.   Humma Kavula
136 I'm confused. Did Kuroda's second-half collapse come in 2006 or 2007 or both?

And why would a 2007 collapse be caused by surgery during the previous off-season?

2007-12-17 16:10:56
143.   Humma Kavula
142 should be addressed to 136 et al.
2007-12-17 16:13:45
144.   trainwreck
From what I gather, he had surgery in 06, but some issues might have flared up in 07. Keith Law said something about him having some issues with elbow, even though he was supposedly given a clean bill of health.
2007-12-17 16:16:12
145.   trainwreck
Might have been a case where they did not want to suggest any injury issues, because it was a given that he was going to try to play in America.
2007-12-17 16:18:59
146.   Humma Kavula
144 How often does a player fail his physical? I know there's been a case or two, but not very often. Yet all the time, a player is acquired, then shows signs of injury, a la Schmidt last year.

My baseless opinion: the teams receive informed opinions from doctors, then choose to ignore them.

2007-12-17 16:26:39
147.   Bob Timmermann
Kuroda's GO/FO numbers may take a little while longer to discover.

I'm beginning to think the Japanese don't care about such matters.

2007-12-17 16:30:35
148.   Bob Timmermann
The most notable case of a player flunking a physical was Greg Vaughn when the Yankees tried to acquire him.

Vaughn went on to play several more years. With the wear and tear most pro athletes have on their bodies, they could conceivably fail a physical just about anytime.

Declaring a player to have "failed" a physical is a good way to back out of a bad trade or just cause trouble. See the case of Bowden v. Krivsy in re Majewski.

2007-12-17 16:30:54
149.   LogikReader
Oh, snap! just invited me to "Vote for My Favorite Dodger Third Baseman"

To the Polls, Gentlemen!

2007-12-17 16:31:51
150.   LogikReader

I thought it was just for the "current" one. They're throwing in Cey and Beltre in there.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-17 16:33:14
151.   jasonungar07
Given the talent in the farm before Logan White and the talent now, if he signs off on Kuroda then it's good enough for me.
2007-12-17 16:33:27
152.   trainwreck
I sure hope I can vote for Cesar Izturis.
2007-12-17 16:35:11
153.   Jacob L
I'm hoping my fellow members of the Mike Blowers Marching and Chowder Society make a good showing.
2007-12-17 16:38:18
154.   Wilbert Robinson
147 in addition to "goro" being groundball i discovered that "furai" is flyball. Where as "goro" means the sound of something rolling, "furai" means the sound of wind.
2007-12-17 16:38:48
155.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
After reading the recent post on FJM, I entered my name and the word "scrappy" into a google search. It came up with 24,000 possibilities, in only .3 seconds.

For reference, Pierre's name and "scrappy" produced only 4,280 possibilities, and took .45 seconds.

2007-12-17 16:41:06
156.   Wilbert Robinson
154 furai also means to deep fry something
2007-12-17 16:42:56
157.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-12-17 18:48:39
158.   GoBears
"furai" means the sound of wind

Uh, no. It's just a Japanization of the English word "fly." The character (kanji) for wind (kaze) is also read "fuu," and one of several characters that can be pronounced "rai" means "to come," so one COULD note that fuurai (although note the extra "u" sound) could be written "to come on the wind," but I would call that an unintentional pun, not an intentional onomatopoeia.

That said, puns ARE the highest form of humor in Japan, so who's to say?

And Bob was correct - there's no indication of GB/FP ratios on the website he linked to. I wish I knew where to look.

2007-12-17 20:12:59
159.   Joe Pierre
This signing shows the Dodgers are not predjudice against guys in the Mitchell Report

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