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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Imagine Finding These Under Your Tree
2007-12-25 04:58
by Jon Weisman

Santa brought some Dodger prospects (here rated by John Sickels at Minor League Ball).

A continued happy holidays, everyone.

Comments (238)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-25 07:37:34
1.   Dave60
Good list, with lots of reasons to look forward to the 2008 season and beyond. My only question is which starting pitchers will be moved to give McDonald and Kershaw their opportunity.

As a regular lurker and only occasional poster, allow me to wish everyone here a very Merry Christmas. My following of the Dodgers, now almost fify years strong, has been enhanced by your comments and community.

2007-12-25 07:40:15
2.   Vishal
eric enders said something in the last thread about sickels "not drinking the baseball america kool-aid" with regards to mcdonald... what exactly did BA say about him?
2007-12-25 07:44:39
3.   Dave60
I don't know about this year, but in the 2007 Prospects Handbook, McDonald didn't even make the top 30.
2007-12-25 08:08:12
4.   Vishal
3 top 30 for the dodgers or in baseball?

if it's the dodgers, then surely that must've just been an oversight rather than an intentional slight. surely....

2007-12-25 08:14:17
5.   Dave60
It was top 30 for the Dodgers, and it wasn't an oversight. McDonald shows up on the minor league depth chart, but behind such notables as Javy Guerra and Jesus Castillo.

McDonald made tremendous strides during the '07 season, but it's hard to believe that BA thought so little of him before the season.

2007-12-25 08:17:40
6.   PalmdaleSteve1
Anyone know if Schmitt has found under his Christmas tree a healed up arm, ready for February 15th?

Oh..Merry Christmas...!

2007-12-25 08:52:24
7.   Gr-ool
Merry Christmas, all... Thanks for posting this prospect link today, Jon. It's great to think about in spare moments, between time spent with family.

I love seeing some of our best commentators over there too, giving some fine insights on our guys, and Logan White's drafts... Peace.

2007-12-25 09:16:22
8.   overkill94
Definitely a difference in opinion between BA and Sickels about a few players (McDonald, Dewitt, and Elbert specifically). While I'm pleased that Sickels gave McDonald a B+, it does seem a half-grade too high for a guy with such a short track record.
2007-12-25 09:40:06
9.   Gr-ool
In the spirit of today, here's a link to some high school and middle school choirs singing holiday (mostly Christmas) music:

I've been very fortunate to have two kids, who both enjoy singing, so I've heard lots of these sorts of renditions live over the years. My daughter happens to be in one of the choirs represented here, too. Enjoy.

2007-12-25 10:13:24
10.   Suffering Bruin
Now why would Jon feel the need to remind Sickels to tell us to be civil? :)

Seriously, great list. I can't think of a better Xmas present than the secure knowledge that the Dodgers are hip-deep in prospects.

Okay, I can think of a few but I'm just sayin'...

2007-12-25 10:22:50
11.   eekrock
Merry Christmas everybody!

Hopefully this time next year the Doyars have an '08 NLCS trophy on the mantle next to the Tree!

2007-12-25 10:23:55
12.   Bob Timmermann
I can't imagine why people would be uncivil when it comes to discussing the rankings of minor leaguers.

That's not something I figure would spark a jihad in the average person.

2007-12-25 10:30:10
13.   Linkmeister
Mele Kalikimaka, everyone!
2007-12-25 10:39:44
14.   berkowit28
12 It's the perceived unfairness or inequity when comparing prospects from rival teams that does it. There's nothing like feelings of unfairness, particularly but not exclusively when felt by children and people used to behaving like children, that inflames "debate".

It was the arrival of many Yankee fans of the loutish variety (such as inhabit the many message boards, you know the type) to Sickels' blog when his Yankee list appeared immediately following his Red Sox list that went over the top in incivility and seem to have precipitated a mini nervous breakdown on Sickels' part. I'm pleased to note that, so far, Dodger fans have behaved themselves nicely, although there was one post from some other team's supporters that slipped.

2007-12-25 10:41:30
15.   Bob Timmermann
I find that beyond weird. But at least I understand what was going on.
2007-12-25 10:53:33
16.   Zach the Ripper
That was hilarious, "spark a jihad". I am now the "crazy guy" at work for laughing out loud at my pc.
Merry Christmas everyone, especially to my fellow peons who have the misfortune of working today.
My best present of the day, you ask? Well a 10 game mini plan for 2008. See ya'll on opening day!
2007-12-25 10:54:14
17.   Daniel Zappala
9 You can use the streaming player to hear a couple of my kids singing on KBYU in about 5 minutes. No, my kids don't make up the entire choir! :-)

Merry Christmas everyone.

2007-12-25 11:34:07
18.   Kevin Lewis
Merry Christmas, everyone. My wife and I are in St. Louis, still waiting for Northwest Air to locate our luggage from Sunday night. I will never fly with NWA again, and I will definitely not connect through Minneapolis.

Live and learn.

2007-12-25 11:37:07
19.   fanerman
Merry Christmas everybody!
2007-12-25 11:37:24
20.   fanerman
Hey Kevin Lewis, do you still play COD4? I finally got it.
2007-12-25 11:42:51
21.   Bob Timmermann
St. Louis, that's God's Country! Say hi to my brother!
2007-12-25 11:44:51
22.   fanerman
18 Oh, and good luck getting your luggage =/.
2007-12-25 11:51:04
23.   Bumsrap
21 - If St. Louis is God's Country, is LA God's Rock 'N' Roll?
2007-12-25 11:58:08
24.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I play COD4 on 360. GamerTag: theweakspot

Merry Xmas everyone!

2007-12-25 12:07:59
25.   MyTummyHurts
& if you want to see Lucifer live & in person just drive down to Vegas.
2007-12-25 12:16:43
26.   Bluebleeder87
looks like the Yanks & BoSox were the only teams hit with the luxury tax this year. From FoxSports.Com >>>The Yankees were hit with a tax bill of $23.88 million by Major League Baseball in a notice sent to teams late Friday, pushing them over the $100 million mark since the penalty for profligate spending was introduced in 2003.

The only other club that must pay the competitive-balance tax, as it is formally known, is the World Series champion Boston Red Sox, who owe $6.06 million.

2007-12-25 12:29:35
27.   fanerman
24 Cool. My gamertag is "WETPETS", though I won't be able to play until after New Year's.
2007-12-25 13:18:21
28.   Bluebleeder87
"7 ages of Rock" is re-playing right now. The 60's is on as I type this. I think Time Life's Documentary of the evolution of rock was the best rock 'n rock documentary I've ever seen.
2007-12-25 14:10:06
29.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Wish I had caught it, Bluebleeder.

As for me, I'm debating making it out to see "Control," the new Ian Curtis/ Joy Division documentary or staying at home to enjoy the Lakers play the Suns.

I really can't decide.

2007-12-25 14:28:45
30.   immouch
pretty sure it's sickels' wife who is warning the world to be civil, whatever that means.
agreed. anybody unrelated to the named parties who feels genuine emotion over the "rating" of a player needs to assess what is or isn't important in their lives... or knock it off. either way, it's whack.
merry christmas to all.
2007-12-25 14:57:09
31.   natepurcell
Levitate Ariza!!
2007-12-25 15:27:01
32.   Kevin Lewis
20 24

Yes, I do...far too much. I will be back on after the new year. User name is "Lyle Hutz"

COD4 is probably the best multi player game I have ever played on Xbox live.

2007-12-25 15:29:04
33.   Kevin Lewis
Oh, and still no word on the luggage. At this point we get reimbursed $50 a day for clothing and necessities. My wife and I will hit up the sales tomorrow on Northwest's dime. They probably won't accept a $50 gift card for best buy as a "necessary item"
2007-12-25 15:50:10
34.   Bluebleeder87

if you don't catch it on t.v. you can also see it on there website.

2007-12-25 15:58:20
35.   Vishal
this is the most fun i've had watching the lakers in several years.
2007-12-25 15:58:45
36.   Vishal
34 where website?
2007-12-25 16:18:08
37.   natepurcell
This Laker game has had some awesome dunks.
2007-12-25 16:18:54
38.   natepurcell
I really like watching a lineup that has bynum, kobe, ariza, and farmar in it. I hope they re-sign Ariza after this year.
2007-12-25 16:36:11
39.   Bluebleeder87

I think it's VH1 OR VH1Classic (not sure) hey Vishal how did you get your nick? (pretty cool, always liked it)

2007-12-25 16:46:44
40.   Bluebleeder87
Just finished reading "Sickels" comment section. I envy Nate, it's not his talent evaluation skills (I have that, or think I do..) but his writing skills are very good, wish I'd stayed in school.
2007-12-25 16:49:48
41.   natepurcell
but his writing skills are very good, wish I'd stayed in school.

It's a shame I don't show them here.

2007-12-25 16:59:20
42.   Vishal
39 haha, thanks man. my parents gave it to me. :)
2007-12-25 17:17:38
43.   Bluebleeder87
with such joy'ish comments about the Lakers, I'm sure they won...
2007-12-25 17:32:33
44.   natepurcell
re: Sickels' list

two top drafted players missing

Josh Wall (2nd rounder)- Don't write him off yet. He made strides last year and still has a ton of projection left in him.

Preston Mattingly (Supp 1st)- I realize his last season was absolutely horrible, but players as raw as Mattingly need more than one year before any judgment can be made. He still has the tools to succeed and shoot himself up prospect lists.

2007-12-25 17:58:06
45.   Bluebleeder87
James McDonald is such a random name, I tride youtubeing him & I got a variety of people including a pastor!
2007-12-25 18:36:16
46.   Sam DC
Deal or No Deal can be quite the emotional roller coaster.
2007-12-25 19:08:26
47.   ET90210
I think the Yanks credit card bill might be worse than our holiday one... ouch.

2007-12-25 21:08:42
48.   Greg Brock
I hope everybody had a nice Christmas. Though Santa gave me a sinus infection for Christmas, the day could not have been nicer.
2007-12-25 22:11:13
49.   Daniel Zappala
We had a great Christmas. Seeing the kids' faces when they opened up presents was great. We kept really good secrets this year.
2007-12-25 22:21:28
50.   Jason in Canada
Merry Christmas everyone. It's amazing Greg, but I too got a sinus infection from St. Nick. My 5 year old soon really scored though with an infected molar.

Have a great Boxing day everyone!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-25 22:22:21
51.   Greg Brock
49 I can only assume that they each received a musical instrument.

The Zappala Family Orchestra, now appearing at the Hollywood Bowl.

2007-12-25 22:31:30
52.   Eric Enders
2 Baseball America didn't say anything bad about McDonald, necessarily; they just rank him on their lists far, far below where a pitcher of his age, performance, and repertoire would ordinarily rate. I'm sure they have their reasons.
2007-12-25 22:36:37
53.   Bob Timmermann
I get to go to work tomorrow. I will spend much of the week not knowing what day it is.

This will be repeated next week. Except I won't be working on January 2.

I'm going to go out tomorrow and perhaps see if there are hungry peasants and bring them flesh and wine and pine logs. Then we'll dine together.

Everybody will be happy and sing about it years later.

2007-12-25 22:49:17
54.   Greg Brock
I will be spending the remainder of my vacation scanning graphic organizers, concept maps, and unit exercises, which I then have to put on disks for the rest of the Social Science department. I will also be playing copious amounts of NCAA '08 on the PS3 and sleeping past ten o'clock.

And PPT presentations. Lots and lots of them.

2007-12-25 22:56:27
55.   trainwreck
Merry Christmas to all DT posters and their families.

I am a temp, so I have no idea when I work again, but I will be spending this weekend drinking copious amounts of alcohol.

2007-12-25 23:18:05
56.   bhsportsguy
53 ; 54 ; 55

Yeah, like you won't wondering what is Dan Guerrero doing and who will be wearing various types of "Adidas" hats next season at the Rose Bowl?

2007-12-25 23:19:27
57.   trainwreck
I am like Roger Clemens.

I have become numb to UCLA football coaching search.

2007-12-25 23:20:05
58.   Bob Timmermann
Didn't you read about my dream involving Al Golden and Dan Guerrero asking me to bring some ice cream to a reception for him?
2007-12-25 23:22:25
59.   Bob Timmermann
I will accept whomever Greg Brock favors. It's easier that way.
2007-12-25 23:26:43
60.   Greg Brock
59 Don't worry, Bob. My days of bitterness are over. I can go back to being the positive and excited UCLA fan I was for 27/30 of my life.

No matter the coach, it's a new day. And with it comes hope.

Though I think we can all assume Rick Neuheisel is the next coach.

2007-12-26 00:05:04
61.   dzzrtRatt
Hope you all had a great Christmas. We sure did. Best one in a long time. One possible reason: Not having to think about going to prison in the near future. (If you're curious, reflections on that here:
2007-12-26 00:13:06
62.   trainwreck
I am happy I did not have to go to my aunt and uncle's house that is across the street from the SF Zoo.

Being tiger food is not a good way to spend Christmas.

2007-12-26 00:46:01
63.   bhsportsguy
62 I always go back to my former life working in law firms when I see stories like this one, let's see I'll start by suing the City, and add on from there. Short of, those guys climbing over the fence, I don't see how the City doesn't get hit by a big lawsuit.
2007-12-26 00:54:20
64.   overkill94
61 I don't mean to get too personal (and obviously you can decline to answer if you want), but what sort of legal action are you up against? It's just always weird to think that anyone as respectable as yourself could wind up in hot water.
2007-12-26 02:09:11
65.   mattSD
40 41
The only reason Nate writes so well is that Santa Margarita education.

You probably got Lutrell and Rhodes, right?

I only remember because a Jared Hughes discussion a few years ago on another board and under a different name somehow prompted a very short SM-email, as I recall.

2007-12-26 03:28:10
66.   bhsportsguy
Just to aid in the discussion, here are Sickel's ratings from last year. They are listed by grade but the order is alphabetical.

Clayton Kershaw A-
Andy LaRoche A-
Scott Elbert B+
James Loney B+
Chin-Lung Hu B
Jonathan Meloan B
Blake DeWitt B
Preston Mattingly B-
Tony Abreu C+
Josh Bell C+
Ivan DeJesus C+
Cory Dunlap C+
Kyle Orr C+
Delwyn Young C+
Brian Akin C
Mark Alexander C
Matt Berezay C
Justin Fuller C
Zach Hammes C
Casy Hoorelbeke C
Eric Hull C
Bridger Hunt C
Stephen Johnson C
B.J.Lamura C
Brent Leach C
Andrew Locke C
James McDonald C
Greg Miller C
Bryan Morris C
Justin Orenduff C
Xavier Paul C
Anthony Raglani C
Ryan Rogowski C
Eric Stults C

2007-12-26 07:06:56
67.   Bob Timmermann
I don't mean to get too personal (and obviously you can decline to answer if you want), but what sort of legal action are you up against?

I believe his wife went all through town collecting money to make up the deficit in the building and loan. Mr. Martini busted open his jukebox and Mr. Gower collected on all his charge accounts too.

2007-12-26 07:30:06
68.   D4P
And he just received the following telegram:


2007-12-26 07:44:46
69.   Bob Timmermann
Well, this guy is single and he's never married and he's off to go OPEN the library.
2007-12-26 07:51:32
70.   Daniel Zappala
If it helps you feel better, I'm going to work today too.
2007-12-26 07:53:28
71.   D4P
If if helps you feel better, I'm working at home today. Kinda like every day.
2007-12-26 08:00:28
72.   Terry A
67 and 68 should win some sort of award. Nice work, gents.
2007-12-26 08:45:40
73.   MC Safety
20 I just got that game Fanerman, I should be on Live by Thursday. Ill shoot you my gamertag when I set it up.
2007-12-26 09:17:47
74.   dkminnick
61 64 - Ratt, I'm glad this was a good Christmas for you, but your story has left me with a pit in my stomach. It's more than weird, it's downright scary.

Best of luck. I'll send good thoughts and prayers.

2007-12-26 09:20:13
75.   Marty
My Christmas was very nice. I got new red and white wine goblets, 12 each. Also, a springform pan, two 9 inch round and nine inch square baking pans and a bundt pan. Now all I need is BHSportsguy to teach me how to bake!
2007-12-26 09:20:53
76.   Bob Timmermann
Come on by the library, Marty. I've got leftover apple/blackberry pie.
2007-12-26 09:24:22
77.   D4P
Weird. Some friends of ours brought over a pie this weekend, and it was.....wait for
2007-12-26 09:26:11
78.   Marty
I'm not going near work today. I'm thinking of going to the Arclight to see There Will be Blood.
2007-12-26 09:26:16
79.   Bob Timmermann
Blackberries leave red stains behind.

I demand an investigation.

2007-12-26 09:26:53
80.   Bob Timmermann
Drive down Flower very slowly and I'll throw a slice in your open car window.
2007-12-26 09:48:42
81.   berkowit28
61 74
Where did you find dzzrtRatt's actual story, dkminnick? I have to say that his comment and link got me very intrigued, too. I don't know why others think that it's a suitable topic for mockery (67, 68 - though I see that Ratt's own blog back on 12/22/2006 was about the Capra film, so it could be that long-time friends in the know here are making an in-joke), and I'm sorry if that's going to make him less inclined to tell us more. I couldn't find any links back to more about whatever was happening to him then. Refusal to divulge a source, or something completely different?
2007-12-26 10:00:57
82.   Bob Timmermann
It's a complicated story and I think D4P and I were just in the holiday mood.

Neither he nor I know details.

2007-12-26 10:13:34
83.   bhsportsguy
75 Are the red wine glasses wider to get more air down into glass?

I am working this week too so I will leave it to Greg Brock to tell us who is going to win the NCAA basketball championship via PSIII.

2007-12-26 10:26:18
84.   dkminnick
81 - I don't know the details. I'd like to, but that's up to dzzrtRatt. It's just terrifying to me that a good man such as he could be facing jail time.
2007-12-26 10:32:43
85.   dkminnick
81 - I don't know the details. I'd like to, but that's up to dzzrtRatt. It's just terrifying to me that a good man such as he could be facing jail time.
2007-12-26 10:32:44
86.   GoBears
Not sure if this is old news 'round here, but Prior just signed with the Padres. Story on ESPN. If he can come back, that's a scary rotation.
2007-12-26 10:36:25
87.   Daniel Zappala
85 , 81 , etc. Anyone who wants to can pretty easily find out what dzzrtRatt is up against. Ratt, for what it's worth, I hope your lawyers are able to sort this out and I hope you have many more happy Christmases with your family. May your son continue to surprise you with his great accomplishments.
2007-12-26 10:46:37
88.   Marty
83 Yes, they are nice wide ones, but still easy to swirl.
2007-12-26 10:49:40
89.   Bob Timmermann
dzzrtRatt provided a link to his blog. You can look up articles in the newspaper under his real name.

It's not a real mystery, although the later machinations of legal appeals is.

2007-12-26 10:56:31
90.   berkowit28
87 OK, got it.
2007-12-26 11:06:37
91.   ET90210
Prior signs with the Padres! Nice little rotation they got going there...

2007-12-26 11:12:35
92.   GoBears
91. And here I thought I was late to the party in 86 .
2007-12-26 11:16:06
93.   Terry A
Prior's got to have some serious ugliness in that shoulder to have scared off so many teams. But if he makes it back, yes, the Padres could be loaded.
2007-12-26 11:25:14
94.   Dark Horse
The Padres rotation looks exactly as loaded as ours was last year. A healthy Prior and Wolf sound terrific. Then again, so do a healthy Schmidt and Kuo.
2007-12-26 11:33:59
95.   bhsportsguy
Mark Prior has visited the disabled list every year since 2003, last year he pitched 10+ innings in Spring Training before having season ending shoulder injury.

The Padres are still more likely to dip down into their 6th, 7th and beyond starters through the 2008 season than the Dodgers.

2007-12-26 11:36:02
96.   dzzrtRatt
85 Good morning...sorry to roil the waters.

In 2004, a company I worked for came under the scrutiny of the LA Times, the city controller and eventually the U.S. Attorneys' office. The investigation started as "pay for play," and then evolved into my company's billing practices with respect to city of LA clients, of which we had a few. It was a combination of things that created the circumstance, especially the upcoming mayoral election, but there were also a number of personalities involved. My office, and the company's relationship with that office were "toxic." From the moment I started working there the dysfunction was apparent, but I persevered, foolishly.

To make a long story short, the US Attorneys needed a "win," and my company needed scapegoats to avoid going the Arthur Anderson route, i.e. indictment leading to immediate dissolution of the company. So, rather than fighting what were ridiculous charges -- which was their first plan, and for which there was ample evidence to work with -- the company decided to concede everything the government was saying, so long as all the alleged misdeeds could be blamed on a small handful of people all in Los Angeles. I was one of those people. And then, basically, "I fought the law and law won." I did not agree to plead guilty to a felony in return for lenient treatment because I wasn't guilty, and I wasn't willing to say I was. Not that it would have changed my decision, but I went into the trial naively believing the government had to "prove" its case. In reality, the prosecutors' job is to sway the jury using whatever works. I was convicted in May 2006.
This slow process had reached a point in late 2006 where sentencing was imminent shortly after the holidays.

Now, fast-forward a year, and my case and my sentence are on appeal, with the appellate court having ruled in June that I would not have to serve my sentence pending appeal. Under federal law, the vast majority of federal convicts must wait out the appeal process in prison, even non-violent and "white-collar" cases, so it was a massive relief plus a good legal augury for the ultimate outcome that the appellate judges decided to keep me out.

So, besides the egg-nog, what motivated me to post that probably too-personal comment was realizing how nice it was to spend Christmas with members of my extended family, and not feel like I was weeks away from a year away from home. My wife, my son, my parents and my siblings were able to enjoy the holiday without that anxiety, and I realized what a difference that made. Freedom is wonderful.

2007-12-26 11:43:54
97.   D4P
In reality, the prosecutors' job is to sway the jury using whatever works

I think that's generally true for defense attorneys as well. Neither side is interested in "the truth" or "justice" per se, but rather with "winning".

2007-12-26 11:44:29
98.   bhsportsguy
96 Having work on many a trial (albeit only in Civil cases), it is quite true that the goal is not justice as proclaimed but it is winning by using any and all methods (certainly in the cases that I was involved in, above board and legal, but that is not always the case.)

The thing is that cases often turn on the credibility of the witnesses and the believability of each side's version of what happened. Unless you have that rare "open and shut" case, you are never going to know what exactly happened and unlike TV/Movies, you don't get to see the crime take place so you know that right person is being convicted.

Good luck to you dzzzRatt and I hope that you will always be able to breathe the air of freedom.

2007-12-26 11:48:14
99.   Summer Saint
Who are the 6 and 7 guys for the Padres at this point? Justin Germano and Clay Hensley? If that's the case, then if (when?) Wolf and Prior go down the Padres are going to have to turn to a guy with a career-high 91 ERA+ and shoddy peripherals, and a 28 year old who pitched 50 innings last year while bouncing back and forth between the DL, AAA and the bigs. Granted, they're still the Padres so they'll still find a way to leave the Dodgers shaking their heads, but that rotation is really looking shaky to me.

And this is kind of off-topic, but what is it about Petco that makes it such a pitcher's park? Is it just the huge outfield dimensions? I'm still coming up to speed on some of the sabermetric-y stuff, and I've yet to see (from a reliable source, such as you people) what types of dimensions actually contribute to different park factors.

2007-12-26 12:03:42
100.   bhsportsguy
99 I think dimensions and climate each play a role, Petco was the most difficult place to score a run in baseball last year. And while the Padre pitchers certainly enjoy the park factors, the Padre hitters don't do much better than their opponents, finishing 30th (last) in OPS a home in 2007. Padre opponents scored 278 runs against them (less than 3.5 per game) at home but the Padres themselves scored only 323 runs (just under 4 runs per game).

Petco's park factors will probably in the near future deter a player like Andruw Jones signing with them for a short term deal because of its affect on offense but then again, Petco is perfect for ptichers like Wolf and Prior who are looking for one-year turnarounds.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-26 12:09:13
101.   JoeyP
The Mark Prior deal is excellent for the Padres:

Its only for 1yr/1mil.

This is the type of deal that only has upside with the Padres. If he sucks, its only 1yr 1mil down the drain. Plus, he's easy to bench. If he's good, all the better.

Prior was a much much better deal than Kuroda IMO. Lower risk, greater upside.


Any takers that Prior will have a lower ERA+ than Kuroda this year?

2007-12-26 12:11:34
102.   Daniel Zappala
The thing is that cases often turn on the credibility of the witnesses and the believability of each side's version of what happened. Unless you have that rare "open and shut" case, you are never going to know what exactly happened and unlike TV/Movies, you don't get to see the crime take place so you know that right person is being convicted.

Why does justice have to be so unjust? If there is doubt about a person's guilt, then they shouldn't be in jail. Maybe we need an awful lot more jury instruction? Or maybe we just need to let selected professors run the world.

2007-12-26 12:12:01
103.   JoeyP
This Prior deal, I forgot to add---really reminds me of the Padres signing of Mike Piazza for pennies a couple years ago. A ton of upside, very little downside.
2007-12-26 12:12:49
104.   bhsportsguy
101 I'll take that bet with the qualification that Prior has to pitch at least the same number of innings.
2007-12-26 12:15:16
105.   madmac
104 was just going to say the same thing. At least 150 innings or so to qualify. Guarantee Prior won't make it thru the season.
2007-12-26 12:16:07
106.   bhsportsguy
102 I didn't say justice is unjust, I like the fact that the government has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt because they have all the advantages, only in those rare "celebrity cases" do defendants have equal oppurtunity to put on a defense to match.

I am just saying that rarely is there evidence beyond the testimony of witnesses and that is certainly not something that is a sure thing for any side.

2007-12-26 12:16:10
107.   still bevens
96 I work on alot of Enr0n matters at my office and I have seen the truly ugly side of the DOJ. My heart goes out to you. Its truly a lop sided battle when it comes down to prosecutors trying to get their scalps.
2007-12-26 12:19:05
108.   JoeyP
104--It'd have to be on some sort of sliding scale.

You cant judge players based on quantity over quality.

Bc Prior pitching, say 120 innings of 115 ERA+ is more valuable than Kuroda pitching 180 innings of 90 ERA+.

2007-12-26 12:28:14
109.   bhsportsguy
108 What about the other guy picking up for Prior's spot the rest of the way.

I will say this right now, if Kuroda pitches 180+ IP for the Dodgers next year, I would consider that a success almost regardless of what his record and ERA turns out to be.

2007-12-26 12:35:41
110.   bhsportsguy
Bob, unfortunately Disneyland will not be able to grant your dreams, according to a Temple fansite, Al Golden has pulled his name out of consideration for the UCLA job.

So now, guys with lesser records than Karl Dorrell are pulling out of the UCLA coaching search.

2007-12-26 12:39:47
111.   trainwreck
That would be interesting to see UCLA play the 3-4 defense.
2007-12-26 12:45:19
112.   bhsportsguy
111 So Walker has had his second interview today, is it possible that a decision will be made this week?
2007-12-26 12:48:18
113.   3upn3down
I was reading the commentary piece done by Fred Claire that was published in the LAT this week, and got to thinking about him a bit.

He left the Dodgers back when I didn't have nearly the online resources I have today to get the scoop on why he never surfaced as another GM or GM Candidate around the league.

Why did he never get another GM job? Did he choose to take his career a different direction, or was he flawed in some way I never understood?

2007-12-26 12:49:16
114.   CanuckDodger
Are the Dodgers more likely to get a good season out of Kuroda than the Padres are to get out of Prior? Absolutely, and by a huge margin. Prior won't be ready to start the season anywhere but the DL and the chances are high that his arm is shot, which is why he could only get the deal he got. The Prior/Padres deal is like the Chin-Hui Tsao deal for us last year. There is so little to lose that of course a Padres fan has to like it, but it is stupid to compare such a "shot in the dark" to the signing of a player that multiple teams were falling over each other to throw tens of millions of dollars at.
2007-12-26 12:51:33
115.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I am not Edgar Cayce.
2007-12-26 12:52:08
116.   madmac
114 preach it brother
2007-12-26 12:53:32
117.   Hythloday
102 Because there is so much justice in the hiring and tenure processes for professors?
2007-12-26 12:54:59
118.   bhsportsguy
114 But that is the appeal of Prior (at least in JoeyP's eyes), he doesn't cost them that much, if he fails like a Tomko, you don't have to keep pitching him because he makes a lot.

I think the comparison to Kuroda was used because, one, Kuroda has not shown that he can pitch in MLB yet, he is making 12 times per year that two, Prior is guaranteed and he is signed for 3 years thus potentially blocking cheaper alternatives in the Dodger system.

Also, they both will likely fill out the bottom of the rotation so there is that comparison too.

2007-12-26 12:56:11
119.   trainwreck
I hope so.

I am already trying to think of who our starters should be next year. I am having my most trouble with the offensive line. Think the younger Tevaga will be a starter next year?

2007-12-26 12:56:41
120.   regfairfield
108 I'm thinking more like 30 innings. I could see taking a chance on the guy if you expect absolutely nothing out of him, but the odds of him being productive are close to nil. Unless this latest procedure actually managed to fix him, he just looked finished in Spring Training this year.

Yeah, they have nothing to lose since it's not like one million is going to break them, but I'd say there's at least a 90 percent chance the Padres get nothing for their investment.

2007-12-26 12:57:33
121.   bhsportsguy
118 I am not saying that its not worth it for the Padres (heck for the Dodgers it would not have been a horrible deal to sign him, let him rehab and see where he is at by mid-season) but right now he is certainly iffy and Kuroda may or may not adjust but I believe he will be pitching in Vero in February but will Prior be able to throw off the mound in ST, we will find out then.
2007-12-26 12:59:36
122.   bhsportsguy
119 On the one hand, could it be worse but on the other, its possible for some of these guys to have their 4th coach in 4 years, which I think is a huge problem.

I do think Sonny could start, but a lot depends on who is the coach and what offense they run.

2007-12-26 13:02:28
123.   scareduck
107 - spinning a story that Enron wasn't a bunch of pathological liars is a tough job.
2007-12-26 13:03:01
124.   Vishal
108 how about pitching VORP? doesn't that take into account both quality and quantity?
2007-12-26 13:14:02
125.   bhsportsguy
Just noticed, Rafael Furcal had played 8 straight games in the Dominican Winter League (12/16-12/23), in 38 plate appearances, he had this line .361/.385/.500, and in his last 3 games, he is 8 for 15 with 2 doubles, a HR, 2 walks, a strikeout and 2/2 stolen bases.

I think the league might have taken a few days off for Christmas, also he is hitting .333 from the left side so it appears that his ankle must be feeling better.

2007-12-26 13:31:33
126.   silverwidow
125 It will be so great if Furcal stays healthy all year and produces something like .300/.350/.425
2007-12-26 13:43:08
127.   BiggO
101-Any takers that Prior will have a lower ERA+ than Kuroda this year?

yeah If you want to bet that Kuroda has more innings pitched than Prior and Wolf combined.I'll take Kuroda Prior was on the juice I played with guys from SC at that time most of them were juiced.

2007-12-26 13:49:41
128.   dzzrtRatt
123 But a lot of people got convicted and sentenced to multiple-year sentences (that they are serving while appealing them) who were not pathological liars, or even employees of Enron. Some of them might fairly be called people who were the victims of those pathological liars. The reality is, the DOJ wasn't sure it could convict Lay and Skilling, so it went after other people against whom they could concoct a plausible case, with the jury pre-sold that anything Enron was bad.

Enron was too high-profile to let Lay and Skilling get away, but in a less high-profile case, they would have been considered too difficult to prosecute; too much risk of the government losing. Instead, DOJ would have made deals with them to help assure convictions against lower-down officers. It's all about what they can "win," and usually they don't even try unless the game is as rigged as possible in their favor. That's why someone who pleads guilty to a crime gets probation, while someone who pursues their right to a trial will get a long sentence -- for the same crime. The message being sent (in case you're missing it) is: Do what your government tells you to do, or else.

2007-12-26 13:50:22
129.   scareduck
113 - sometimes you get to sit in the chair until it spins you out.

Honestly, Claire always seemed to me like the one guy who was all earnestness but had no idea how to fix the Dodgers. He was of a piece with the late O'Malley Dodgers — at sea with respect to both free agency and building the farm — and that kind of record isn't going to get you a second chance.

2007-12-26 13:56:25
130.   Summer Saint
124 Quick disclaimer: I don't necessarily think that comparing Prior to Kuroda is a good thing. I agree with Canuck that trying to compare the two is somewhat flawed to begin with, because both of the signings were done with very different circumstances and expectations. On the one hand, Prior's name immediately elicits memories of his exceptional 2003 season stats and subsequent overuse, as well as "yeah, but what if..." lines of reasoning. Kuroda, on the other hand, is viewed as a solid investment without any huge question marks, but with limited upside. I'm pretty sure no one has any reasonable expectations for Kuroda to recreate Saito's success (but really, if he di-- wait, nevermind).

All that said, I don't go back to school for another two weeks and all my friends back here at home are at work, so making comparisons between the two certainly has some entertainment value. I like the idea of using VORP to compare Prior and Kuroda, but only as a starting point. Should Prior, as expected, go down with injury early in the season then his innings and slot in the rotation will probably be taken over by Justin Germano, assuming Germano isn't already taking over for an injured Wolf (or even Tall Chris Young), in which case Clay Hensley would probably step into Prior's role... unless Hensley is injured again. Given this uncertainty, let's just call Prior's replacement pitcher Germensley for now. Anyway, if we then combine Prior's VORP with that of Germensley for the innings that are being taken over for Prior, and compare it to Kuroda's VORP over the season, and assuming the inning counts are similar because we are not expecting Kuroda to be get injured, I think that would get us closer to measuring which signing was better.

Other things that might want to be taken into account is the fact that Prior/Germensley will take up two spots on the 25 and 40 man rosters whereas Kuroda will only take one, and the opportunity cost of the money spent on Kuroda compared to what was spent on Prior/Germensley. There are probably more, but those are the only ones that come to mind at the moment.

2007-12-26 14:10:23
131.   bhsportsguy
Pats and Giants will be available on "free" tv this week.

And to think I got DirectTV just for this reason, well not really but read the spin on this announcement.

"We have taken this extraordinary step because it is in the best interest of our fans," commissioner Roger Goodell said.

"What we have seen for the past year is a ery strong consumer demand for NFL Network. We appreciate CBS and NBC delivering the NFL Network telecast on Saturday night to the broad audience that deserves to see this potentially historic game. Our commitment to the NFL Network is stronger than ever."

2007-12-26 14:13:23
132.   Bob Timmermann
I would just like to state that nothing has made me happier than the fact that I have gotten people to refer to the Padres pitcher as "Tall Chris Young."

It warms my heart on a difficult day at work.

"Short Chris Young" is 6'3"!

2007-12-26 14:15:46
133.   D4P
It warms my heart on a difficult day at work

Everyone goes to the library on the day after Christmas.

2007-12-26 14:16:18
134.   bhsportsguy
132 The alternatives would at least be questionable or more likely spark a debate that we need not get into.
2007-12-26 14:21:47
135.   Bob Timmermann
You'd be surprised.
2007-12-26 14:23:07
136.   dzzrtRatt
Like Colletti, Claire was a PR man who stuck around stubbornly until he got a chance to work in baseball operations. Wouldn't you? But while Colletti's PR instincts have caused him to shift to a more sustainable long-term strategy, Claire was always about big names and getting media approval. He got very lucky with Piazza, Mondesi, Astacio and Ramon Martinez, filled in the blanks with trades and FA signings, some good like Brett Butler, Eddie Murray, and Hideo Nomo, some not so good like Daryl Strawberry and of course, D4P, and a lot of so-so types like Tim Wallach, Kevin Gross and Tom Candiotti. There was no theme to his pudding. Was the team built around power? Speed? Pitching? Veterans? Prospects? in any given year, the answer was "yes." I was jealous of other teams' management.
2007-12-26 14:41:32
137.   D4P
Check out two books at the regular price, check out a third for free...?
2007-12-26 14:46:30
138.   scareduck
136 - Like Colletti, Claire was a PR man who stuck around stubbornly until he got a chance to work in baseball operations.

Waiting for the GM to put his foot in his mouth (at the level of fireable offense) doesn't strike me as a career option for most people.

2007-12-26 14:47:37
139.   Ken Noe
136 Nicely said. The decline of the LADs began IMO under Claire, not Malone. He had a lot of money, and just threw it at the biggest, over-the-hill names available on the market, year after year. Meanwhile, the farm withered.

Best of luck with your case, by the way. I sympathize. I once spent an anxious three years dealing with lawyers and courts because my eighty year old grandfather cursed a local constable one day who had come to cite him for some old cars parked in his backyard.

2007-12-26 14:53:33
140.   Blaine
Ken, was your grandfather a wizard? That would make for an anxious three years. Haha.
2007-12-26 14:53:50
141.   D4P
some old cars parked in his backyard

Ah, The South.

2007-12-26 15:10:13
142.   D4P
An article on history's most hated teams. Tough to decide between 49ers, Cowboys, Yankees, Red Sox, Patriots, and Notre Dame.

I hated the Bad Boy Pistons at the time, but now I look back on them with appreciation.

1970s Broad Street Bullies
1970s Raiders
1980s 49ers
Bad Boy Pistons
late '80s-early '90s Miami Hurricanes
early '90s UNLV basketball
mid-'90s Cowboys
'98-'07 Yankees
Shaq-Kobe Lakers
'04-'07 Red Sox
'07 Patriots
Notre Dame football - forever
Duke basketball - last 20 years

2007-12-26 15:19:54
143.   trainwreck
I tend to hate teams forever, not just for eras.

Yankees and Red Sox are tied (I mostly hate the Red Sox because of their fans)
Notre Dame

I love Lakers and Raiders and do not hate those other teams.

2007-12-26 15:20:57
144.   trainwreck
Actually, I think I would lower Duke past Yankees and Red Sox. My hate for them is not what it used to be.
2007-12-26 15:21:33
145.   dzzrtRatt
Why limit the Yankees to '98-'07?

Shaq & Kobe weren't hateful til their last season together, in which they became so hateful it spoiled any appreciation for what they had done previously.

What's to hate about the 49ers? They were a wonderful team; entertaining, stylish, interesting, tough. What's hateful is what the Yorks have done to them. It's possible to hate a bad team, isn't it?

I voted for the 'Canes. There's just something illegitimate about Florida college football, and the Hurricanes embodied it.

2007-12-26 15:24:24
146.   bhsportsguy
142 That always gets me about the complaint that the 2002 playoff series against the Kings was handed to the Lakers because of Game 6.

First, no one brings up Game 5 where Webber got a call at the end of the game that Kings won at the end of the game and that the Kings lost Game 7 at home in overtime. Somehow the calls in Game 6 were so bad, it convinced everyone that the Lakers were pre-destined to win the series.

That all being said, I can understand why the Lakers are one of those teams that you love to hate. But its always better to be one of those teams (as long as you are winning) than not.

The Raiders however are just hated but the reasons are in the past like Al Davis's offensive schemes.

2007-12-26 15:24:41
147.   D4P
What's to hate about the 49ers?

I'm not sure the internets are big enough for my response.

2007-12-26 15:24:49
148.   trainwreck
If you were born in the 80's and you were a Rams/Raiders fan living in the Bay Area, then that is a very good reason to loathe the 49ers.
2007-12-26 15:26:16
149.   D4P
Why limit the Yankees to '98-'07?

No need to limit the Patriots to '07 either.

2007-12-26 15:29:09
150.   bhsportsguy
148 I can why people dislike the Patriots, you have QB having babies with model/actresses, a coach who wears sweatshirts, is as glib as my computer monitor and is not above cheating, and they win. If Bellichek was more like Joe Torre, Pete Carroll or even Phil Jackson, the hate would not be as much.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-26 15:29:15
151.   Lexinthedena
I hated the Jordan era Bulls, but only because I was a gradeschool kid and rooted for the Knicks (Ewing was my favorate player) and the Lakers (L.A blood)...looking back I feel lucky to have watched Jordan in his prime....Raider Nation and Red Sox nation are both totally annoying...there should be more to one's identity than the team they root for...I never hated the Yankees in part because of Torre's percieved class, but I felt about the them they way I feel about San Antonio...booooring....

I guess I'll have to with the Ken Caminity would get ugly at Dodger Stadium when they came to town, and they beat us a lot....I hated that team.....

2007-12-26 15:30:00
152.   bhsportsguy
148 I can recall the 49ers being very bad until Bill Walsh and Joe Montanna arrived.
2007-12-26 15:30:14
153.   Lexinthedena
150- A lot of people find Jackson smug, and arrogant (he is)....I dig him because he reads....
2007-12-26 15:34:00
154.   Bob Timmermann
To me the 49ers are Dick Nolan coaching John Brodie and Ken Willard.

They were mostly harmless.

Now, the Fran Tarkenton era Vikings are another matter. They don't exist on the "Dead to Me" list as they have transcended that. They are all condemned to the lowest circles of hell.

Even Fred Cox.

2007-12-26 15:35:43
155.   D4P
How can you hate San Francisco but not the 49ers? Come on! Let the hate spill over!
2007-12-26 15:37:44
156.   dzzrtRatt

The Rams lost me after they moved to Anaheim. I was casting about for a new team when the Niners came along with "The Catch" which defeated my most hated team of that era, the Cowboys.

I latched onto the Raiders when they moved to LA and enjoyed their Super Bowl season. But with the move back to Oakland, the scales fell from my eyes. Al Davis was a treacherous skunk, a creepy thug. I despise the Raiders with the heat of 10,000 suns, and will do so until Davis is in in the ground. That man should experience no further joy in life. My feelings on that actually started during the Marcus Allen benching period. It was bad enough that a great runner like that was being subjected to a career blackout. It was worse that Davis corrupted his coaches into going along with it, even though it meant the team was significantly weaker, including lying to the press on a daily basis about why they weren't playing him. When else has something like that happened? It goes beyond the parameters of sports fandom. It was creepy and disgusting.

This is a rhetorical question only and not meant to insult the Raiders' many fans here; but how can anyone be a Raider fan given that history? Knowing that Davis will fire a coach or bench a pro-bowl level player for reasons that are so irrational, personal and vindictive?

2007-12-26 15:40:58
157.   bhsportsguy
I think the reason I didn't really hate teams is that the teams that were competing with my teams were always pretty good. (Maybe the Minnesota Vikings and Cowboys who kept my Rams out of the Super Bowl in '70s)

Teams I could hate but don't.

Big Red Machine (1974-1979 Reds)
Reggie's Yankees (1977-1981)
Dr. J's Sixers (1977-1983)
Bird's Celtics (1979-1987)
Recent Padre Teams (2004-Present)
The Giants (on general principles)

The Padres certainly don't come close to what those top 4 rivals accomplished, I feel that those 4 teams were worthy rivals and that to lose to them was not the end all (Both local teams did win against them though)

The Padres and Giants are weird because the hate was always more towards my team than the other way around, though the Padres games at Dodger Stadium are getting more intense each time I go. The Giants will not be the same if Barry is no longer playing for them.

Cross-town hates
USC (okay the recent version has brought them up to an annoyance level)
Angels (I can't due to childhood memories)(the announcers, that's another story)
Clippers (nope, first team I ever bought season tickets)

2007-12-26 15:43:02
158.   bhsportsguy
154 I was composing 157 so I did not see your response.

Poor Tom Mack.

2007-12-26 15:49:16
159.   trainwreck
I am a Raider fan and I do not like Al Davis. There are things to like about Al, but I was not alive during the Raiders heyday so I do not have the attachment to him that other Raider fans do.

I want him to go away, so we can be run like a normal franchise.

2007-12-26 15:50:06
160.   overkill94
Comparing Prior and Kuroda from the Dodgers' standpoint is a flawed argument. The Dodgers needed at least one more reliable starter for this year, so they got Kuroda. Even if they had signed Prior, they still would've had to sign one more pitcher.

Prior is a perfect signing for a team that already has five usable starters, preferably with a #5 who can easily be replaced. Prior's only value for 2008 is for the second half of the year, so all he can be is an injury/ineffectiveness replacement or trade bait. A smarter signing would have been to include a team option that kicks in at 120 IP or something.

2007-12-26 15:52:04
161.   Lexinthedena
I want to hate the Giants, and can't when they are bad which is why I root for them to be competitive...the D-Backs are blah to me....although they will be fun to watch this year...
2007-12-26 15:54:08
162.   Hythloday
156 My first real football memory was Marcus Allen running 75 yards for a touchdown in the Superbowl. But my parents weren't into sports so I didn't really become I sports fan until later in life. By that time a lot of that had transpired without me knowing or understanding. In fact, though I am Raiders fan the players that brought me back to football were Barry Sanders and Warren Moon. I fall in line with trainwreck as far as hoping that the Raiders will approach normalcy sometime soon (sans Al Davis).
2007-12-26 15:57:52
163.   dzzrtRatt
159 With apologies to Louis XIV, "Les Raiders, ils sont Al Davis."
2007-12-26 15:59:21
164.   Lexinthedena
162- It will take more than Al Davis croaking for the Raiders to be normal...Most card carrying residents of the Raider Nation relish in the fact that their team is not normal...
2007-12-26 16:01:17
165.   bhsportsguy
Al Davis = Mr. Montgomery Burns, he has lackeys whose sole job is to make sure that he remains one step ahead of death.

"And when he tried to steal our sunlight, he crossed that line between everyday villainy and cartoonish super-villainy."

2007-12-26 16:05:40
166.   dzzrtRatt
Raider Nation is more about a particular fan approach.

"How was the game, honey?"

"Not bad. The Raiders lost, but I beat up a guy and put him in the hospital."

"I'd say that's a pretty good day, dear."

"Yeah, but last week, I killed a guy."

"Oh well, there's always next Sunday, hon'. Your dinner's warming in the oven."

"Great, I'm hungry. What're we having?"

"I strangled a goat."

"Did you save the blood?"

2007-12-26 16:13:17
167.   trainwreck
Not like Dodger fans are exactly saints anymore.
2007-12-26 16:14:14
168.   Hythloday
164 - I enjoy the fact that Raiders fans aren't normal. It ain't my bag, but I get a kick out of it. By normal I merely mean managed by less of an antiquated martinet. He has his occasional flashes these days, but more often than not he is out-dated and out of it. Modern NFL management isn't rocket science, but it sure seems that way to Raiders management.
2007-12-26 16:20:10
169.   D4P
Not like Dodger fans are exactly saints anymore

See: 99 , 130

2007-12-26 16:20:57
170.   fanerman
I hate the Raiders and Rams fundamentally because they left LA. I also hate Raider Nation.
2007-12-26 16:29:38
171.   PDH5204
154 Pro Bowl party at a nightclub here in Honolulu in the early 90s. The one fellow extends his arm. I extend mine and say, Hi, I'm Paul. He says, I'm Matt. I say, I know who you are, Mr. Blair, you ruined my adolescence. He laughs. I then say, I'll see ya later [though I was hoping I wouldn't]. And that was that.
2007-12-26 16:35:43
172.   Bluebleeder87
Jon usually tells us when he is going on hiatus, this time he just kind of sneaked out.
2007-12-26 16:37:41
173.   trainwreck
I must say that I am amazed Bob liked Dreamgirls.

This movie is terrible in so many ways.

2007-12-26 16:42:53
174.   Bob Timmermann
That statement ranks close to the top of "Most Out of Blue" comment here.
2007-12-26 16:46:13
175.   trainwreck
It is on HBO right now lol.

I just tend to agree with you on a lot of movies and television shows and I remembered you said you really liked this movie.

2007-12-26 16:47:21
176.   Bob Timmermann
I stand by my previous statement.
2007-12-26 16:49:48
177.   trainwreck
I should have tied it into the 49ers.
2007-12-26 16:51:42
178.   Marty
I hate the Tarkenton Vikings so much I blot them out of my memory. Then Bob dredges them back up again and the hatred is renewed.
2007-12-26 16:55:57
179.   Bluebleeder87

just catching up with the thread, wow DzzrtRatt I really hope things work out for you.

2007-12-26 16:58:36
180.   trainwreck
Apparently, DeWayne Walker's interview went very well today.

Somewhere, Greg Brock is crying curled into the fetal position.

2007-12-26 17:11:58
181.   Bob Timmermann
Bob Field is going to make a defensive coordinator head coach of UCLA or die trying.
2007-12-26 17:17:08
182.   bhsportsguy
180 No, he will be fine, I think he is happy that they are changing coaches.
2007-12-26 17:17:13
183.   trainwreck
I never understood why the associate athletic director seemed to have more power in the hiring process than the actual athletic director.
2007-12-26 17:21:08
184.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, I think the new football coach will be Valerie Kondos Field in a Hillary Clinton-like accession to power.
2007-12-26 17:23:06
185.   trainwreck
Does she run the WCO?
2007-12-26 17:23:53
186.   Bob Timmermann
I'm very disappointed in the level of participation in the Motor City Bowl chat on The Griddle.

Very disappointed.

Where are all the Central Michigan grads?

2007-12-26 17:26:01
187.   Bob Timmermann
I hear that the choreography she does for Sea World involves a series of crisply executed, short dance moves.
2007-12-26 17:26:48
188.   trainwreck
Their love for sports died when Chris Kaman cut his hair.
2007-12-26 17:30:21
189.   Dodgers49
RIP: Stu Nahan

2007-12-26 17:47:22
190.   bhsportsguy
189 You gotta love YouTube

2007-12-26 17:50:54
191.   LAT
189. Is it me or is that obit a little unkind? Makes it sound like Stu was fired, fired and fired again.
2007-12-26 17:57:49
192.   trunkybeat

Going back to the discussion on how Baseball America ranks James McDonald, BA has a 2008 preview of LA's top 10 prospects available here:

McDonald is ranked 7th this year. Although they don't talk about him specifically in this article, they have given him the title of "Best Curveball" and "Best Control" in the Dodgers' system in the "Tools" section of the article.

As an aside, this is my first post on here. I was directed to this site a few days ago (from where, I can't recall), and am enjoying it. I even posted about dodgerthoughts on my blog after reading the Spring Training article last week. I am not a Dodgers fan, but my Dad is, and our entire family loves following minor-league baseball in general, especially in the Southern League and Florida State League. We live in Jacksonville and thus get to see a lot of Suns games--well, actually, we just started a year or two ago. We're autograph hounds too, and our collection has gotten pretty big after only a little time.

Nice talking baseball with y'all. Happy Christmas and Happy Holidays.

2007-12-26 18:13:18
193.   fanerman
D4P and I have made some "pity posts" at The Griddle.
2007-12-26 18:17:30
194.   D4P
Where would The Griddle be without 'em...?
2007-12-26 18:19:24
195.   dzzrtRatt
179 Thanks. Right at the moment, things have worked out fine. The future will take care of itself. Getting to stick around while my son does all these amazing things in his last year of high school is the happy ending to my unresolved story if that makes any sense.

"Dreamgirls" is a fine movie if you like fictionalized history and good acting. The music was lousy to wretched except for the showstopper "I'm Telling You I'm Not Going." And that was the big problem with the movie, really. There was nowhere to go from there but down. However, Eddie Murphy was great and should have won the bla bla bla awards.

2007-12-26 18:22:27
196.   bhsportsguy
192 Welcome and be forewarned, if you saw the Jacksonville teams in 2005-2006, plus now actually seeing McDonald and Kershaw pitch, you have the envy of a certain Mr. Purcell and CanuckDodger.
2007-12-26 18:53:49
197.   scareduck
176 etc. -- Joe Esterhas, Paul Verhoeven, and a lot more were getting Elizabeth Berkley and more every night according to the scuttlebutt I heard. That's the only plausible explanation I can think of for why Showgirls got made.
2007-12-26 19:11:17
198.   trunkybeat

That's awesome. I am writing about this in my blog right now. I recorded bits of some games last year, but lost most of it when my computer crashed last year. In fact, the only bit that I may have saved could be this Home Run from young Blake Dewitt:

We were very excited the week that Kershaw got called up, but there wasn't that same enthusiasm for McDonald. We didn't have any of his Baseball cards, and there wasn't any mention of him in the "Green Bible" (BA Prospect Handbook, as talked about in previous post and post #3). Check out my recent post on McDonald and dodgerthoughts here:

Thank you for your time and space--not trying to advertise--just fascinated by the prospect discussions.

2007-12-26 19:20:55
199.   Dodgers49
A site I just stumbled across while searching for something else:

Los Angeles Dodgers

The following directory includes some of the best young players (25 and under) in the Los Angeles Dodgers organization. Some new players may be excluded because they lack a performance record to inform the categories and skill projections.
The directory is in development, and we are actively working to improve accuracy and completeness. For information on other organizations, please click the team's link in the right sidebar of this page.

2007-12-26 19:21:32
200.   Gen3Blue
Welcome Trunkybeat.

How many days till pitchers and catchers? Anyone? Is it getting near 60?

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-26 19:23:12
201.   Gen3Blue
First Inning has some interesting stuff---and some puzzling!
2007-12-26 19:30:50
202.   68elcamino427
Pitchers and catchers report February 14.
2007-12-26 19:37:33
203.   neuroboy002
Just saw The Kite Runner. Read the book before hand and it was neat to see some of my mental imagery come to life. My friend who saw it with me knew nothing of the plot or had any kind of background information and still thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope others here give it a chance.
2007-12-26 19:53:33
204.   natepurcell

Please stay during the season. Minor league baseball talk is very bountiful once the season starts and it would be awesome to have someone here who sees some of the prospects on a weekly basis.

2007-12-26 20:03:33
205.   dzzrtRatt
197 "Showgirls" no es "Dreamgirls."
2007-12-26 20:08:20
206.   Dodgers49
201 The site is in development but I find this concept interesting as it pertains to minor leaguers:

Report for

When you register and login, you can visit this page and view daily updates for all your favorite major league and minor league players

2007-12-26 20:16:24
207.   Gen3Blue
202 Thanx. That looks like it must be less than 60 days-I'll retire to figure this awesome problem out.
2007-12-26 20:20:13
208.   overkill94
198 Cool little blog you've got going on there. Be warned that if you stick around during the year, you'll be "politely prodded" to give as many detailed prospect reports as possible by a few of the prospect hounds around here.
2007-12-26 20:36:29
209.   gvette
189 Farewell to Stu Nahan; the man who called all of Rocky Balboa's title fights, AND interviewed surfing great Jeff Spicoli.

154 There is a circle of hell where;
1) all LA Ram fans must spend eternity watching Chuck Knox go for a field goal on the goal line only to have it blocked;

2)where they must watch Pat Haden's tiny hands unable to clench a football in the pouring rain, and

3)where they will be forced to repeatedly watch Tom Mack never move an inch, yet be called for offsides.

In that circle of hell, you must also watch all of Georgia Frontiere's wedding videos.

2007-12-26 20:40:49
210.   GoBears
209. I met Georgia Frontiere after the Rams-Bucs NFC Championship game in St. Louis (got to hang out with the players' families through a connection with Vermeil and Mike White). Shook her hand. Whenever I remember it, I still shudder. Ghoulish is the best word to describe it. Brrrrrrrrrrr.
2007-12-26 21:09:57
211.   gvette
210 Does that make Georgia the first NFL owner to win a Super Bowl trophy while under the influence of botox?
2007-12-26 21:14:18
212.   immouch
RAMS problem:
My relationship with the team is like a horrific country song, where the dog has driven off in the pickup and it still burns when I whizz or whatever... Bottom line: I hate 'em bad because of Georgia and John Shaw and St. Stinking Louis (which uses bagoodles of tax money to pay off Frontiere and the Wal Mart clown who co-owns the team)... yet I cannot prevent myself from looking at the tiny type part of the sports page every Monday to find out how many yards Isaac Bruce or whoever got in yesterday's loss... I once sat in the Coliseum in a 3-hour-long borderline tropical downpour to watch George Foreman plow up the grass YET AGAIN and keep the Rams out of the Super Bowl YET AGAIN even though the Rams, that year, had finally won enough games to secure home field advanage and, as such, the better weather. Wore a garbage liner instead of a jacket during all that because my dad, brain surgeon that he is, convinced my mom we didn't need coats. Pretty fun, now that I think about it.
2007-12-26 21:16:55
213.   immouch
on another note:
how many doubles does d. young have to hit to get a B-plus from Prof. Sickels? i predict delwyn becomes a borderline all star, somewhere between jacques jones and, say, merle haggard.
2007-12-26 22:05:55
214.   Kingmans Performance
I'll give 'Silver Tip' Stu (Nahan) his
moment of silence.

for those who remember:

2007-12-26 22:18:20
215.   Kingmans Performance
214 Jim Healy regularly mentioned S.T. Stu
during his radio show. They were really good friends.

Healy would mention times Nahan was seen
eating whatever buffet the local teams were
serving during press conferences, While sounds of pigs rushing to a trough could be heard in the background, Jim Healy would read off a list of all the entrees and desserts that were being served. The sports press freeloaders Healy called them or the "loaders" for short. Nahan would be singled out among all of them.

Then he would play the belch sound followed by a toilet flushing. Just classic.

For those who remember fondly.

2007-12-26 22:27:51
216.   Jason in Canada
I can't believe you mentioned the ex-COUGH!-Las Vegas "Showgirl"... Geor...Georgi... Can't do it... that just ruined my day.

I still have nightmares of her thanking the city of St. Louis after the Superbowl for their support...

Please, let's never bring her up again.

2007-12-27 01:59:03
217.   bhsportsguy
Sickels' Grades 2006-2008

Clayton Kershaw LHP N/A A- A
Andy LaRoche 3B B+ A- A-
James McDonald RHP -- C B+
Chin-Lung Hu SS B B B
Jonathan Meloan RHP C+ B B
Delwyn Young OF B- C+ B-
Chris Withrow RHP N/A N/A B-
Scott Elbert LHP B+ B+ C+
Blake DeWitt 3B B+ B- C+
Andrew Lambo 1B N/A N/A C+
Pedro Baez 3B N/A N/A C+
Josh Bell 3B C C+ C+
Ivan DeJesus SS C+ C+ C+
James Adkins LHP N/A N/A C+
Xavier Paul OF -- C C+
Justin Orenduff RHP B C C+
Austin Gallagher 3B N/A N/A C
Jamie Hoffman OF -- -- C
Jamie Pedroza SS N/A N/A C
Ramon Troncoso RHP -- -- C

2007-12-27 05:48:12
218.   trunkybeat
I like I use them to look up stats a lot. I am into a lot of sabremetrics, but I don't understand ALL the ones they use. They are especially useful to see how a player has been doing recently, as they list the line for the player's last ten games.

The other cool thing is that fans can submit video of prospects and upload them to the site. That is where I got the idea for the Blake Dewitt vid--although the one I uploaded to is not nearly as good as the original on youtube.

2007-12-27 08:58:25
219.   Andrew Shimmin
RIP Benazir Bhutto.
2007-12-27 09:17:41
220.   gibsonhobbs88
209, 212 - First my condolences to the Nahan family, he will be missed here in the LA area, RIP Stu.

My most hated team in the 70's was the Vikings because their victories over my beloved LA Rams always had "questionable calls" that went the Vikings way in eveery game.
1970 - A piling on penalty against the Rams was called even though the running back of the Vikings was still moving for extra yards in the snow, the penalty extended a drive that led to the eventual winning points in a 23-20 Viking Victory.

1974 - The infamous Tom Mack "off sides" call when he never moved but either Page or Eller that did jump prematurely, convinced the refs that Mack moved, Rams were forced back into trying to pass into the end zone, it was intercepted and Rams lost 14-10.

1976 - Again in the frigid Viking weather - pre-best record when they just rotated who got home field. Before settling for the ill-fated field goal attempt that was blocked and run for a touchdown, Ron Jessie on an end-around clearly had half his body over the end zone line for an apparant touchdown but the refs "holding the bribe money in their fat wallets" called him down at the half foot line. The ten to 14 point swing early in the game was the difference. Vikings 24- Rams 13. Then of course the downpour in LA the next year that we lost in the Coliseum mudbog 14-7. At least when the Rams lost to the Cowboys in the 70's playoffs, it was convincing. No excuses, they just kicked our butts. So yeah, I hated Tarkenton and the Vikings.

2007-12-27 09:46:51
221.   silverwidow
Apparently, Jim Callis leaked the BA Top 10 in a chat:

1. Jay Bruce, of, Reds
2. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Red Sox
3. Joba Chamberlain, rhp, Yankees
4. Evan Longoria, 3b, Rays
5. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers
6. Mike Moustakas, ss, Royals
7. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals
8. Cameron Maybin, of, Marlins
9. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays
10. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds

2007-12-27 10:03:08
222.   eekrock
Certainly John deserves a well earned break. Especially since it's both the off-season and the holiday (and because everyone deserves a break now and then regardless of time or place)...

but man, sure makes the morning at work seem like mooooe-lasses...

2007-12-27 10:03:43
223.   delias man
221 that was just HIS top 10
2007-12-27 10:03:55
224.   CanuckDodger
221 -- That is Callis's PERSONAL Top 10, not BA's Top 10. BA won't release their official Top 100 till around the end of February or beginning of March, and they don't decide that list till shortly before that time.
2007-12-27 10:52:45
225.   regfairfield
221 Does that make Callis the only person who doesn't have Longoria at number two?
2007-12-27 11:18:17
226.   Vishal
is joba really that good?
2007-12-27 11:39:09
227.   Lexinthedena
226- I think so....I saw nothing that would indicate him being overrated....
2007-12-27 12:21:28
228.   Greg Brock
Defamer has already cast the Bhutto MotW.
2007-12-27 12:35:02
229.   trunkybeat
Joba is AMAZING. I don't think the Yankees would trade him straight up for Santana. He had a 0.38 ERA after his call-up in 19 games to help the Yankees get into the playoffs last year. Does a 0.75 WHIP do anything for you? How about 34:6 K:BB in 24.0 innings pitched in those 19 games? I love this guy!

2007-12-27 12:46:14
230.   ibleedbloo
I don't think Jaba will be anything more than average as a starter. he is/was great as a setup guy, but we all saw him fall apart in crunch time in the playoffs.

I also think that Maybin is to high on that list.

2007-12-27 13:00:08
231.   Lexinthedena
230- I agree about Maybin...I actually think Adam Jones, who is similar, will be the better player....
2007-12-27 13:02:31
232.   regfairfield
230 Why, the guy decimated AA this year, albeit in limited action.
2007-12-27 13:14:38
233.   natepurcell
I think Joba is excellent. The only thing that could derail him are injuries since he has had a history of them.
2007-12-27 13:30:41
234.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I just hope Longoria doesnt party himself out before the bigs. Take it from me... He can beer bong like a hall of famer.
2007-12-27 13:32:26
235.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Oh, I think Maybin is a stud, though I know nothing of his drinking prowess.
2007-12-27 13:47:33
236.   Daniel Zappala
I have a thing for QBs. Therefore, I couldn't hate Fran Tarkenton and the Vikings, nor could I hate Montana/Young and the 49ers. When I watched Plunket and Stabler, I liked the Raiders.
2007-12-27 14:06:58
237.   Jon Weisman
222 - Something to sweeten your afternoon. New post up top.
2007-12-27 14:10:08
238.   Bob Timmermann
A sign of the New Year: University of Illinois fans spotted wandering around Downtown Los Angeles.

The Rose Bowl draws nigh.

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