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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Pac-10 Men's Hoops Opening Day (Wilson Valdez on Sale)
2008-01-03 08:52
by Jon Weisman

It should be a fierce year of basketball in the Pacific 10 Conference. It should be, anyway.

Kicking off the conference schedule tonight:

UCLA at Stanford
USC at California
Oregon State at Arizona
Oregon at Arizona State

Undefeated Washington State seems destined to start the season tied for fifth place.

Also, I am willing to entertain non-partisan comments and updates on the Iowa caucusi today. Too much is being made of them, but on the other hand, we can't really talk about Wilson Valdez being sold to a Korean team all day (as reported in the Times), can we?

On the other other hand, there's nothing like a Jose Lima update to heat up the winter months. (Imagine: Valdez, Lima, Jae Seo and Hee Seop Choi, all on the same squad!)

Comments (424)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-01-03 08:59:57
1.   Bob Timmermann
I think Washington State will start the season in fifth all by itself if you go by games behind.
2008-01-03 09:01:19
2.   Jon Weisman
What about Washington?
2008-01-03 09:02:24
3.   Bob Timmermann
2008-01-03 09:02:58
4.   Sam DC
Based on someone's comment a couple of days ago, I thought the UCLA/Stanford game would be on tv out this way. But I'm not seeing it.

Discussionwise, I assume we can get a couple of hours out of "caucusi".

I'm pro.

But then, I also think that the correct plural of "Bigfoot" is "Bigfeet."

2008-01-03 09:05:41
5.   Humma Kavula
(Imagine: Valdez, Lima, Jae Seo and Hee Seop Choi, all on the same squad!)

Paul DePodesta leans back in his chair and arches his figers, Montgomery Burns-style, and says, "Excellent."

Yes, I know that Seo did not play on the DePodesta Dodgers. But he could have!

2008-01-03 09:06:23
6.   D4P
I'm the kind of person who thinks the past tense of "sneeze" should be "snoze" (a la freeze-froze), the past tense of "fit" should be "fat" (a la sit-sat), and so on.
2008-01-03 09:08:35
7.   regfairfield
I wonder how often someone on the 40 man roster gets sold to a foreign league.

This does bring up the question of how takes over the role of useless utility guy, since I don't think having Abreu or Hu on the 25 man to start the year would help their development.

2008-01-03 09:09:39
8.   Humma Kavula
6 Does that work for homonyms? Would "seize" become "soze?"
2008-01-03 09:11:19
9.   regfairfield
Royce Clayton actually seems like a good fit for the Dodgers.
2008-01-03 09:12:31
10.   D4P
Knock yourself out.
2008-01-03 09:13:20
11.   Terry A
8 - My loquacious three-year-old has coined the word "brooke" (pronounced "brewk") as a past tense of the (already past tense) verb "broke."

As in, "I didn't break that, my brother brooke it."

Pretty clever, I thought.

2008-01-03 09:14:55
12.   Penarol1916
Is it non-partisan to point out how stupid a caucus is and the stupidity of allowing Iowa and New Hampshire such consistently outsized influences on our presidential candiates?

Also, I spent some time yesterday reading some blogs from the political reporters at the Washington post and Wall Street Journal and the comment sections reveal that every candidate has some incredibly stupid/criminally insane followers.

2008-01-03 09:15:25
13.   KevinP78
"Valdez could also be a power threat to protect Choi..."

Ummmm... Anyone? Anyone?

2008-01-03 09:17:28
14.   Jon Weisman
13 - Maybe they thought they were getting Wilson Betemit?

Wilson Cruz might be a bigger power threat than Wilson Valdez.

2008-01-03 09:17:43
15.   old dodger fan
Do any Korean teams need a CFer?
2008-01-03 09:22:19
16.   Daniel Zappala
13 Gwangju Stadium is really small. Check out these dimensions:

Left Field - 97 m
Center Field - 113 m
Right Field - 97 m

2008-01-03 09:22:44
17.   old dodger fan
From the WSJ today:

"Beyond message, the results in Iowa tonight will hinge heavily on the organizations that the campaigns have built. That's because a caucus is a more complicated process than a primary. Participants can't just show up anytime during the day to cast a secret ballot. They have to appear at a specified time tonight at one of nearly 3,500 sites in school auditoriums, church halls and fire stations, and commit to spending up to several hours there in open discussion. If turnout estimates are accurate, just over 10% of Iowa's voting-age population will participate."

2008-01-03 09:22:49
18.   Sushirabbit
I'm curious to see if Memphis, Vanderbilt and Tennessee (Mens) can win out till Jan 17th. Because then they could possibly all be in the top 10. And I don't think that has ever happened before.
2008-01-03 09:33:44
19.   Andrew Shimmin
consistently outsized influences

It only works if we let it. Vive l'indifference! It does so much and requires so little.

2008-01-03 09:39:10
20.   Jon Weisman
Danica McKellar is 33 today. And I found this out reading TMZ. So who can say that site does no public service?
2008-01-03 09:44:41
21.   KevinP78
16 - Well, I have no shame in admiting I saw the "m" in those dimensions and thought, "so how far is a meter in our system of measurement??" Thanks to Google, I learned that a meter is equal to 3.2808399 feet! That means the park Mr. Powerhouse Valdez is expected to provide protection in is 318 down the line and 371 to center... Good luck, Wilson!
2008-01-03 09:48:02
22.   Xeifrank
I uploaded three of my pictures from the Dodgers Rose Parade float. I was sitting on the side of the street facing Karros, Guo and three other guys that I couldn't recognize. Karros looked pretty bored and probably worried about his hair. I yelled at Karros and Guo and got a look from them. Atleast Guo kind of smiled. One of the old-time players was busy chatting on his cellphone. Click on the pictures to see an enlarged view.

vr, Xei

2008-01-03 09:51:28
23.   Sam DC
20 My Dad would have been 77 today.
2008-01-03 09:55:30
24.   Daniel Zappala
You learn something new every day. Via Wikipedia's entry on Dodger Stadium:

The stadium was originally designed to be expandable to 85,000 seats, simply by enclosing the outfield pavilion. However, the Dodgers have never even considered such a project.

Aside from the parking, I'd have to think it would be great to have more seats -- especially if they were cheap.

2008-01-03 09:57:13
25.   Charenton
Sold to a Korean team ? , ?
What are the legal/contractual obligations for Wilson Valdez in such a transaction? Is this like being sold/traded to the Atlanta Braves or any other MLB team? Usually when one hears of such change in scenery (playing in Japan or Mexico for example) it's the players decision to go play there. I certainly hope that it was WValdez (or his agent) who initiated this. (I can't imagine the Player's Union accepting anything but…)
2008-01-03 09:58:41
26.   Gen3Blue
I'm beginning to think I would like both Hu and Abreu with the team this year. With Kent, Furcal and Nomar out there, I'm afraid there might be plenty of playing time. Of course, ideally, LaRoche prevails at third and has a great year, And Furc and Kent have good healthy years. That kind of thing doesn't seem to happen for the D's lately. For that matter I woudn't mind Hu and Abreu as keystone combo in a few years, provided our power players progress well. We would certainly be in a good financial position then, and could target a real difference maker of a free agent bat.
I vote for left field!

Nice fantasy, anyway.

2008-01-03 09:59:18
27.   mankatododger
We have the caucus system here in Minnesota too. Still don't understand it. All I know is that we are not allowed to hold night classes on any election nights. It's an interesting assumption that all the students will spend their evening at a local high school doing caucus stuff.
2008-01-03 09:59:37
28.   underdog
Nice pics, Xei! Though, no mention of Loney in your captions? Don't know who that guy is sitting next to him. For a second I thought it was The Windmill but it couldn't be. Anyway, cool.
2008-01-03 09:59:48
29.   ishXdavid

Winnie Cooper is 33?!?!? So that makes me... yikes, I'm getting old.

2008-01-03 10:00:15
30.   ImprobableImpossible
Loney's awesomeness can be tough for some of us mere mortals to distinguish. (especially when hidden under a knit cap)
2008-01-03 10:09:31
31.   underdog
30 Yah. Or maybe he's like the Cheshire Firstbaseman.
2008-01-03 10:11:34
32.   Gen3Blue
Thanks for the pics, Xei.
2008-01-03 10:13:53
33.   Penarol1916
26. I think that the reason people don't want Abreu up with the team as a utility guy is because it would be better for him in the long term if he got to play every day and work on his pitch recognition and plate discipline, so playing in AAA would be best.
2008-01-03 10:19:39
34.   Bob Timmermann
O'Malley wouldn't have wanted that many seats in Dodger Stadium. If there are a lot of seats available, then people won't buy season tickets because everybody can get a ticket if they need one.
2008-01-03 10:19:48
35.   silverwidow
33 Abreu isn't going back to Triple-A. He might get "injured."
2008-01-03 10:20:35
36.   regfairfield
33 Exactly, it's looking more and more like we'll have the AbreHu middle infield next year, so I'd like them to get all the time they need to fix the glaring flaws in their game.
2008-01-03 10:21:33
37.   bigcpa
My season ticket group has seats available in 5 or 10 game blocks if anyone is interested. 2 seats on the aisle, Loge 138, row K, just past 1b. $40/face + preferred parking.
2008-01-03 10:24:29
38.   Gen3Blue
33 That's definitely a consideration with Hu, and Abreu too. I'm thinking the things they would gain from ML experience, coaching, etc., would be as important at this point. They are old enough and I've heard, mature enough. I think they would be playing now on most Nat. League West teams.
2008-01-03 10:25:48
39.   regfairfield
38 On that note, wouldn't in make more sense to have your best coaches around AA?
2008-01-03 10:25:55
40.   Joe Pierre
Isn't Wilson Valdez still a Dodger? How can the Kia Tigers sign him? He is not listed as a free agent.
2008-01-03 10:28:45
41.   silverwidow
40 His contract was sold. That's how the Kia Tigers own him.
2008-01-03 10:29:25
42.   silverwidow
Oscar Robles was sold to Mexico the same way last year.
2008-01-03 10:29:46
43.   dzzrtRatt
17 Only fanatics and hacks are willing to do what it takes to participate in an Iowa caucus. But those fanatics and hacks will have a powerful influence on who each party nominates. At least one of Clinton/Obama/Edwards probably will emerge from tonight's caucus with a near-fatal wound, with the coup de grace potentially to be delivered in NH. And the rest of us won't have a chance to effect that decision. Except by complaining on Dodger Thoughts.
2008-01-03 10:33:24
44.   silverwidow
Valdez gone = new reliever for the 40-man

That's my guess.

2008-01-03 10:38:04
45.   Penarol1916
36. Are Hu's flaws really as glaring as Abreu's? I see Hu as being much more close to ready than Abreu, at least in terms of how good he'll be. He's shown some plate discipline in the past.
2008-01-03 10:39:12
46.   Daniel Zappala
43 Couldn't a candidate who does poorly in Iowa and NH still win Florida, and enough other big states, to take the nomination? If I remember correctly, that's Giuliani's strategy this year.
2008-01-03 10:40:45
47.   Marty
I think Wes Parker may have been the guy on the far right.
2008-01-03 10:43:15
48.   Jim Hitchcock
Choi Hee Seop just doesn't have the same ring to it.
2008-01-03 10:43:58
49.   Humma Kavula
I agree that it's ridiculous that Iowa and New Hampshire get to set the pace for campaigns. I think that used to be a good idea, but that time has passed.

It used to be that candidates from outside the power structure of the party could get the nomination by winning those primaries. I believe that that system is how you get a McGovern or a Carter as your candidate. I think that's a good ideal, so I used to think it was a bad idea to have a national primary on a single day. Such a scheme would reward candidates with the infrastructure to handle a nationwide election from the beginning, rather than building momentum.

But now, I'm convinced that we're already there. Who are our front-runners? The candidates with the big fund-raising machines behind them.

If we've already abandoned that ideal, let's just have everybody vote on the same day. Eliminate the caucuses; every state has a primary and we do it on the first Tuesday in May, six months exactly before the general election.

There is an easy way to make this happen: the parties make new rules saying that a state's delegates would not be seated at the convention unless their delegates were elected in a certain manner. The state legislatures, of course, want their delegates seated, so they will overhaul their systems. That's what happened after '68; it would happen again.

2008-01-03 10:48:14
50.   D4P
Who are our front-runners? The candidates with the big fund-raising machines behind them

Which raises a question: how does accepting campaign donations (with the explicit or implicit agreement that a winning candidate will repay the donations through favorable legislation, no-bid contracts, cushy job appointments, etc. for the donors) not violate whatever principle is violated by bribery?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-01-03 10:52:50
51.   Daniel Zappala
49 Throw in instant runoff voting while you're at it.

2008-01-03 10:53:56
52.   Eric Enders
50 It is bribery, plain and simple. But it's legal bribery. Blame the founding fathers, I guess.
2008-01-03 10:54:13
53.   Humma Kavula
50 The answer to your question, as you likely know, is: the Supreme Court has decided that spending money is free speech, which is protected by the Constitution.

My personal feeling is that money is property. If money is speech, then some people have more speech than others. If you have a billion dollars, you can drown out my voice, because I am poor. That seems un-American to me, but I am not a Constitutional Law scholar.

2008-01-03 10:55:07
54.   regfairfield
45 Not really, his career best is .051 in his half season at AA this year. In his last 227 PA this year, he walked six times. He's got issues, and until he solves them his upside is a .330 on base. Not going to fly in our offense.
2008-01-03 10:57:08
55.   Penarol1916
50. Because there is very little explicit or implicit agreement that the winning candidate will repay the donations with these things. Do you think that if Planned Parenthood gave Sam Brownback $10MM he would push for federally funded abortions or the if the NRA suddently did the same with Kennedy he would suddenly be opposed to all gun control legislation? You're not buying the candidate's acquiesence, you are basically buying access to the politician.
2008-01-03 10:57:47
56.   Bob Timmermann
Somewhere in Washington DC, a congressional staffer reads the comments here and curses the fates that keep him from saying anything.
2008-01-03 10:58:36
57.   Eric Enders
Two questions for people who know more than I do:

A) A Constitutional amendment specifically barring this type of bribery would, of course, supersede the specious SCOTUS ruling that money constitutes speech. Is there even a remote possibility that such an amendment could be passed in our lifetimes, or is the money machine already too powerful for that?

B) If (A) doesn't happen, what are the chances that SCOTUS actually reverses itself on this issue within our lifetimes?

2008-01-03 10:59:53
58.   Eric Enders
"You're not buying the candidate's acquiesence, you are basically buying access to the politician"

Of course, this is legally true. But is there anybody who believes it's ACTUALLY true?

2008-01-03 11:00:10
59.   Marty
I have a friend who says her mother was one of the driving forces behind setting up the Iowa caucasi. This friend is also obsessed with Disneyland, so maybe that is where some of the rules came from.
2008-01-03 11:00:32
60.   Disabled List
The Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary make a travishamockery out of our electoral system. There is no reform to the federal election system more desperately needed than a standardized national primary. Not even the electoral college is as bogus as IA and NH's selp-appointed status as selectors of our presidential candidates.

OK, rant over. For now.

2008-01-03 11:01:03
61.   Bob Timmermann
A) Such an amendment would never pass.
B) None.
2008-01-03 11:01:34
62.   Humma Kavula
Of course, you should consider the fact that I might be wrong.

Huckabee did not begin this campaign with a national infrastructure, but he could very well take Iowa today and even New Hampshire.

To a lesser extent, same with Edwards. He was the vice-presidential nominee in '04, so it's not quite the same thing, but he is far behind Clinton and Obama in fundraising. He needs to win in Iowa, and probably in New Hampshire as well, if he is going to stand a chance. He could do that.

Of course, neither of them has the nomination yet, and even sewing up both Iowa and NH wouldn't necessarily put it in the bag like it did for Kerry. If this race ends up being Edwards-Huckabee, then perhaps the system is not in the dire straights that I suggested in 49 . If, on the other hand, we have Clinton-Giuliani, then I think a national primary with the instant runoff that Zappala suggests would be a better way to go.

2008-01-03 11:02:01
63.   Bob Timmermann
I think this is a time we should all go visit the official home page of the Electoral College.

2008-01-03 11:05:27
64.   Penarol1916
58. Do you honestly believe that could buy Sam Brownback's vote? Do you believe that Focus on the Family could buy Barney Frank's?
2008-01-03 11:08:03
65.   Disabled List
If, on the other hand, we have Clinton-Giuliani, then I think a national primary with the instant runoff that Zappala suggests would be a better way to go.

A national primary this year would likely give us a Clinton-Giuliani race, as both of them are the national front-runners. (Although I think Huckabee has just overtaken Rudy nationally.) With all the primaries front-loaded like they are this year, the system is essentially turning into a national primary. I'm not sure how much momentum a surprise winner like Edwards will be able to take away from a win in IA or NH.

2008-01-03 11:10:44
66.   KevinP78
55 Absolutely spot on.
58 Yes. The point that Penarol1916 makes is the proof. If you gave a conservative like Brownback $10mm he's not going to become a pro-choice, anti-gun candidate. Likewise, if you gave a liberal like Ted Kennedy $10mm he's not going to become a hawkish neocon who opposes abortion.
57 Thus, in my opinion, no need for any Constitutional ammendment.
2008-01-03 11:12:20
67.   Humma Kavula
64 Those examples are not good examples, for a number of reasons. For starters, abortion is a hot-button issue that many politicians use to define themselves, and changing their vote for a campaign contribution is unthinkable. (Yes, I'm aware of Mitt Romney.)

A better example: International Widget, Inc. wants to ease trade restrictions on widgets that are produced in China and sold to Americans. They give Representative John Q. Shill an enormous campaign contribution and meet with him. They explain to him all the benefits working Americans will receive is trade restrictions on widgets are eased. Rep. Shill introduces the bill, it is passed, and the president signs it into law.

Let's say that Rep. Shill actually believes this is a good law -- he is convinced by the company's argument and finds the counter-argument uncompelling.

That is the kind of system that D4P and Enders are talking about. Even if it's legal and even if the representative believes he's acting in the best interests of his constituents, it still doesn't pass the sniff test.

2008-01-03 11:12:50
68.   D4P
If you gave a conservative like Brownback $10mm he's not going to become a pro-choice, anti-gun candidate. Likewise, if you gave a liberal like Ted Kennedy $10mm he's not going to become a hawkish neocon who opposes abortion

That may be true, but there are some issues on which candidates are relatively indifferent, where their influence can probably be bought.

2008-01-03 11:18:52
69.   Disabled List
66 Strongly-help personal beliefs are one thing. But other issues are more elastic. I'm sure there were plenty of members of Congress who might not have had a strong opinion on, say, thresholds for discharging credit card debt in personal bankruptcy. Then a bill comes to the floor, and MBNA and Chase and Bank of America come along and start suggesting opinions to these members of Congress along with some very fat campaign contributions.
2008-01-03 11:18:58
70.   Xeifrank
I'm surprised by Jon's venture into Rule #5 territory today. I am waiting for his allowance of venturing into Rule #11 territory.
vr, Xei
2008-01-03 11:21:18
71.   Humma Kavula
65 I don't disagree, except:

(1) The national primary will give more voices to the system, not fewer. If it ends up being Clinton-Giuliani anyway, I like the idea that the entire party, as a country, chose those candidates -- if that's who the parties want, so be it. The way we have it, if Clinton wins Iowa and NH, she will have the appearance of being unstoppable, whether that's actually true or not. Given the same outcome, I like the former system better than the latter.

(2) I do agree that the instant runoff would have to be a part of it. If Clinton is the first choice of a plurality but the second choice of nobody, she should not be the nominee.

(3) I did acknowledge what you're saying, in my post in 62 .

2008-01-03 11:21:27
72.   Eric Enders
The fact that votes are for sale only to certain interests, and not to all interests, does not change that they are for sale.
2008-01-03 11:23:20
73.   Penarol1916
68. Again, on those issues, you are more likely buying additional time to make your case, which is not necessarily any more ethically feasible, but hardly merits an accusation of bribery.

If you look at campaign spending you'll find most of the money goes to candidates who already strongly support the position that the giver espouses, not to candidates that the giver is trying to influence. The real problem is not bribery, but of the big money people selling candidates who already agree with them in these elections.

2008-01-03 11:24:00
74.   Disabled List
70 I'm holding out hope for Rule 13 Violation Day. That should be a fun one.
2008-01-03 11:24:43
75.   Bob Timmermann
Smoke-filled rooms and deadlocked conventions served this nation well for over 100 years! I say it's time to go back to them!
2008-01-03 11:24:58
76.   Eric Enders
Is anybody pitching a no-hitter anywhere right now? Venezuela? Mexican Winter League?
2008-01-03 11:26:04
77.   Greg Brock
75 You may be joking, but you're right.

Also, I had forgotten how good C-Span's coverage of campaigns can be. Meat and potatoes, man. Good stuff.

2008-01-03 11:26:24
78.   Penarol1916
I don't see this discussion as a violation of the spirit of Rule 5. It is not really a discussion of political issues, but of the political process.
2008-01-03 11:27:32
79.   Eric Enders
"Meat and potatoes, man. Good stuff."

Brock is clearly only attempting to run strong in Texas and Idaho.


2008-01-03 11:27:45
80.   fanerman
78 This has been very educational for me.
2008-01-03 11:28:17
81.   Humma Kavula
75 Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger, Rennie Davis, Tom Hayden, John Froines, and Lee Weiner respectfully disagree.

Bobby Seale not only disagrees, but holds you in contempt.

2008-01-03 11:31:49
82.   Greg Brock
79 We Whighs do not shill. We run on a strict platform of nuclear power and a right to drink non-pasteurized milk.

You're with us on those issues or you can vote the other guy.

2008-01-03 11:31:59
83.   Bob Timmermann
Even better, I say we have congressional caucuses nominate candidates. Or just have candidates demurely make their interest known and have third parties do the campaigning for him.

Then the candidates can retire to their estates to wait out the election.

2008-01-03 11:32:36
84.   KevinP78
68 67 69 72 I agree that politicians can be swayed on certain issues. I don't think anyone is in disagreement on that point. I'm saying that it doesn't necessitate money for a candidate to change their vote.
2008-01-03 11:35:50
85.   ROC
"Pinata? I don't even know what a pinata is!"

I'm just curious to see over the next week or so is the size of the gap between "New Media", Big Media & reality. It gives me a vibe like the SABR vs. Scouts discussions when Moneyball hit.


2008-01-03 11:36:25
86.   Humma Kavula
84 This is the key:

Even if everything is above-board, it still gives the appearance of wrongdoing.

John McCain used to talk about that. He was one of the Keating Five. He steadfastly maintains that he did nothing wrong, but the experience made him realize why money had to be divorced from politics. The appearance of bribery tainted the process.

2008-01-03 11:37:29
87.   Linkmeister
I'd love to have seen California and NY decide (collusively!) to hold their primaries on the Saturday before Iowa's caucuses (I always want to say "crocuses;" wishful thinking in action). That way the two biggest states in population would actually have some say in the nominations.
2008-01-03 11:39:13
88.   Disabled List
As far as reforming the ridiculous primary system, this idea is one of the best I've seen: Have four groups of five states from different regions of the country hold primaries at 3-week intervals, beginning in March and concluding in June, when the remaining 30 states hold a "Super Tuesday" primary. The states that go in the early round of primaries would rotate to the Super Tuesday pack in the following election. Some sort of lottery process could be used to determine the order in which the primaries are held.

This would allow a nice compromise of placating the political parties' establishment (who usually like the early frontrunners) and the rank-and-file (who usually like the outsiders/dark horses). It also is far more fair to voters in the 48 states not named Iowa or New Hampshire.

2008-01-03 11:39:18
89.   rjc41276
From Rotoworld:

"White Sox acquired OF Nick Swisher from the Athletics in exchange for LHP Gio Gonzalez, RHP Fautino De Los Santos and OF Ryan Sweeney."

2008-01-03 11:39:30
90.   D4P
As trade Swisher to White Sox.
2008-01-03 11:40:02
91.   Greg Brock
85 Most people still have cable and the big three. Most people read their local paper.

John Q. Public is taking his kids to school and working on his home remodeling. He ain't reading Kos or Free Republic.

I'll believe the impact of "New Media" when I see it.

2008-01-03 11:40:36
92.   Humma Kavula
87 Now THAT would never happen. If CA and NY, on their own, changed their primary dates to the Saturday before Iowa's caucus, one of two things would occur:

(1) Iowa and New Hampshire would move their dates before CA/NY; or
(2) The parties would refuse to seat CA's and NY's delegates at the convention. Under party rules, Iowa must be the first caucus, followed by NH, the first primary. If a state operates differently, the party can refuse to seat the delegates. This happened in, I think, 1972, with, I think, Louisiana. I could be wrong about the date and the state.

If you want change, you first need the parties to overhaul their rules.

2008-01-03 11:40:48
93.   wronghanded
84 It doesn't necessitate but it certainly has to be considered a factor. Deep-pocket corporations have an agenda and definately dump tons of money towards a candidate that will back their play, whether or not this influenced the politician or not is really irrelevant in my mind. It still basically gives an advantage over the opposition and the deep-pocket corp. gets their guy some serious air-time etc.
2008-01-03 11:41:02
94.   Kevin Lewis

I highly doubt that would meet the fire code standards for exits and total capacity. Didn't the stadium lose some seating the Corner reserves after McCourt put in the extra infield seats?

2008-01-03 11:41:46
95.   rjc41276
Word is that the White Sox will play Swisher in center. I guess they'd have no interest in Juan Pierre now.
2008-01-03 11:41:49
96.   Humma Kavula
88 I can get behind that.
2008-01-03 11:41:59
97.   TheBigGrabowski
89/90 I suppose that means the ChiSox are not looking to trade for anymore outfielders.
2008-01-03 11:44:31
98.   Linkmeister
92 Oh, I know. But it would be a lot more representative than the system in place; two white-bread states having such an inordinate effect on party nominations.

ABC News told me last night that Iowa's caucuses weren't a big deal at all until 1976 when Carter came from nowhere and won; that showed the pols how a quintessential outsider could get into the game, rather than the previous system of semi-official anointment.

2008-01-03 11:45:05
99.   Eric Enders
Since my preferred candidate is polling only 6 percent in Iowa, it's highly unlikely he will even be on the ballot by the time I get to vote in a primary (which is in March).
2008-01-03 11:45:53
100.   Disabled List
92 The parties would refuse to seat CA's and NY's delegates at the convention. Under party rules, Iowa must be the first caucus, followed by NH, the first primary. If a state operates differently, the party can refuse to seat the delegates. This happened in, I think, 1972, with, I think, Louisiana. I could be wrong about the date and the state.

The Democrats are doing that to Michigan this year, as "punishment" for moving their primary to Jan. 15.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-01-03 11:47:26
101.   Daniel Zappala
My concern is that people no longer feel any connection to a candidate, nor any reason to believe that a candidate will represent his or her interests. How many of us ever get to listen to a candidate in person any more? How many think they'd like to give $100, but worry that their contribution will be drowned out by the much larger donations given elsewhere?
2008-01-03 11:47:46
102.   Greg Brock
99 I've never voted for a primary candidate that won an election. Granted, this is will only be the fourth presidential election I've participated in, but I feel your pain.

I'm the Ted McGinley of primary voters.

2008-01-03 11:48:11
103.   Pedro Astacio
wow, White Sox are SCREWED. Where's their pitching depth?
2008-01-03 11:50:50
104.   Bob Timmermann
My father was the Clay Bellinger of presidential voters. He always voted for the winner.

Or so he said.

2008-01-03 11:50:53
105.   Humma Kavula
101 It depends what you mean by candidate.

I think my representative in Congress and even my senators would listen to my concerns. I can write them letters and if I visit Washington, I would bet they would come shake my hand and listen to what I had to say.

I do not think that I could ever get the ear of a presidential candidate.

2008-01-03 11:51:40
106.   KevinP78
86 Funny you mention the Keating 5. Eekrock and I were members of the Seattle 7. (sorry... couldn't resist an opportunity to quote Lebowski).

On a more serious note, I agree that the appearance of bribery is not a good thing. But what then should be done to limit the "appearance of bribery"? Eliminate all money contributions? Terrible idea, not to mention unconstitutional. I also think it's highly unfortunate that an "appearance of bribery" (or the "appearance" of anything, for that matter) is what many candidates use to attack an opponent. "Appearances" go a long way in this day of soundbites and smears. However, this in not a flaw in our system, it's a flaw in us as voters. We need to do our homework and not allow shallow arguments based upon appearances of bribery (or anyting else) make our decisions for us.

2008-01-03 11:52:36
107.   fanerman
95 97 That was my first thought, too. =(
2008-01-03 11:52:50
108.   D4P
I'm the A.C. Green of presidential voters.
2008-01-03 11:53:22
109.   Penarol1916
102. Neither have I, and I vote in my Democratic primary every two year for the express purpose of voting against the incumbent, entirely because his father rigged his election for him and nobody even remotely cared. God I hate Chicago politics.
2008-01-03 11:54:29
110.   Marty
The first person I ever voted for was Jerry Brown!
2008-01-03 11:54:37
111.   Humma Kavula
99 Since my preferred candidate is polling only 6 percent in Iowa, it's highly unlikely he will even be on the ballot by the time I get to vote in a primary (which is in March).

(reads poll data)

Oh, I think Giuliani will still be on the ballot in March.

2008-01-03 11:55:17
112.   Eric Enders
My father likes to brag that he has never voted for the candidate who won the general election. He has voted for:

1968 - Humphrey
1972 - McGovern
1976 - Eugene McCarthy
1980 - Carter
1984 - Mondale
1988 - Dukakis
1992 - Perot
1996 - Nader
2000 - Gore
2004 - Kerry

2008-01-03 11:56:31
113.   Bob Timmermann
I've just realized that California will just have a Presidential primary in February. Then there will be another one in June.


2008-01-03 11:57:28
114.   D4P
Is Giuliani EE's preferred candidate overall, or just for the Republican nominee?
2008-01-03 11:59:07
115.   wronghanded
101 I totally agree. I think that the government should own a news station that basically gives equal share time to both political parties. I'm sick and tired of watching skewed political coverage on TV. I say we should put limitations on campaign contributions and have a much more extensive and detailed election process for each party. Hell make it like American Idol and have candidates get voted off each week and may the best man/woman win. They could tour the country and have a public panel fire them questions. We need to find a way to captivate our country and get them more interested in politics in general.
2008-01-03 11:59:25
116.   Bob Timmermann
My mother told me that her doctor let her out of the hospital to go down to the L.A. County Recorder's office in Downtown to vote back in 1960 only because she said she was going to vote for Kennedy. She had given birth to one of my brothers on Halloween.

However, Election Day was November 8, so I wonder what she was still doing in the hospital as I believe there were no complications in the delivery.

2008-01-03 11:59:43
117.   Eric Enders
105 "I do not think that I could ever get the ear of a presidential candidate."

I just finished reading Manhunt, the book about the Lincoln assassination, and one thing I found surprising is that the author contends that in 1865, it was possible for any ordinary citizen to just walk into the White House, request a meeting with the President, and be given a few minutes of Lincoln's time later that same day.

If I tried that today, I'd end up at Guantanamo.

2008-01-03 12:00:14
118.   Eric Enders
111 Wrong tree.
2008-01-03 12:01:04
119.   Greg Brock
[15 Or better yet, the government owned television network can personally vet each candidate, and pre-select the most viable candidate from each party.
2008-01-03 12:02:31
120.   Humma Kavula
118 I figured. I was making a joke. Sorry for being unclear.
2008-01-03 12:02:33
121.   Linkmeister
112 Dear me. I'm about the same age as your father, since the first Presidential election I voted in was also 1968.
2008-01-03 12:03:26
122.   Marty
113 For professional reasons I'm very happy about that. The state is changing their data feed to my paper and this gives me more time to make all the changes I need to make. The Feb. primary is just President and a few props so it will be easy to process.
2008-01-03 12:04:40
123.   KevinP78
118 I heard your guy is hoping to be the VP on the ticket, anyway. He'd serve that well, I'm sure.
2008-01-03 12:05:21
124.   Humma Kavula
115 I think that the government should own a news station that basically gives equal share time to both political parties. I'm sick and tired of watching skewed political coverage on TV.

I do not understand how the second sentence follows from the first. If you give broadcast time directly to the parties, won't you be watching "skewed political coverage" by definition?

Also, I can't imagine what societal ill would be fixed by state-run television.

2008-01-03 12:07:34
125.   Greg Brock
Chris Dodd is very unhappy that campaigns are lobbying for second-choice votes from supporters of candidates that are beneath the 15% threshold.

You new at this, Senator?

2008-01-03 12:09:24
126.   Eric Enders
I've watched state-run television in Cuba and it's pretty entertaining. You get a two-hour speech by Castro followed by bootlegged, badly-dubbed episodes of "Friends" and "The Family Guy." And no commercials, of course.

Beats the pants off CBS.

2008-01-03 12:10:44
127.   wronghanded
124 I guess what I was trying to say is it would take special-interests from private entities out of campaign coverage. Yes the coverage would be skewed but it would provide each party an equal soap-box to sound off on. Kind of like a glorified C-SPAN.
2008-01-03 12:11:06
128.   KevinP78
Question: So, how do you guys think they're going to place in Iowa today, anyway?

1) Obama, Edwards, Clinton
2) Romney, Huckabee, McCain

I think that's my best guess. Like anything else in life, I'd love to see some upsets/surprises.

2008-01-03 12:11:40
129.   wronghanded
127 Government unfiltered
2008-01-03 12:17:20
130.   Jon Weisman
If you've been waiting to buy The Weather Channel, now's the time.

2008-01-03 12:18:24
131.   Humma Kavula
126 Joey and Phoebe are in Central Perk.
Joey has a cup of coffee. There's a hot girl next to Joey.

Phoebe (pointing at hot girl): You see that girl? She reminds me that I do not like my new boyfriend. He is not committed to the advancement of the proletariat!

Laughs on the laugh track.

Joey (turns to hot girl, lips move to the phrase "how YOU doin'?"): Viva la Revolucion! (drinks coffee)

Laughs on the laugh track.

2008-01-03 12:18:42
132.   Penarol1916
126. I would find a network featuring me repeatedly getting kicked in the crotch better than CBS. If it were not for the NCAA tournament, I don't think I would ever watch that channel.
2008-01-03 12:22:17
133.   Humma Kavula

Penarol getting kicked in the crotch

Penarol getting kicked in the crotch

Penarol getting kicked in the crotch

2008-01-03 12:22:49
134.   bagg4
The caucus system isn't perfect, the biggest problem being that if you can't get to the caucus at the appointed time, you have no voice. That said, I had the opportunity in my little hamlet of 8500 people (Decorah, IA)to speak with Huckabee,McCain,Clinton(Hillary and Bill), Dodd, Biden, Obama,Edwards,Richardson, and Kucinich on a face to face basis without the media filters. The problem isn't that IA and NH have early events which determine the outcome. The outcome isn't official until the pundits say so. They are falling over themselves to predict tonight's outcome. I still haven't made up my mind. I'm leaning towards Richardson and then it's a toss-up between Edwards and Obama. I'm a former Californian and a recovering Republican. The Mitt and Mike show is sad.
2008-01-03 12:24:40
135.   D4P
CBS broadcasts A Tradition Like No Other.
2008-01-03 12:24:45
136.   Disabled List
128 That's more or less how I'm calling it, except I think Huck is gonna finish ahead of Romney.

Three weeks ago, I would've wagered money on a Giuliani/Huckabee ticket for the GOP. Now I'm not so sure. Huck seems like a perfect VP candidate for the Republicans, but it actually looks like he might pull off the top slot.

For the Democrats, I still think Hillary is a mortal lock. Her VP will probably be a left-field choice, like Wesley Clark.

2008-01-03 12:25:37
137.   Hythloday
132 Would you be watching this channel or just starring on it? Would you get kicked in the crotch repeatedly or just play yourself getting kicked in the crotch once on an endless loop? I need to know whether to track down some venture capital.
2008-01-03 12:26:45
138.   Greg Brock
127 I think that if you looked at money funneled into elections today, and adjusted for inflation, you'd be very surprised at how it compares to 19th and 20th century politics.

It's just not that big a disparity.

2008-01-03 12:29:14
139.   Humma Kavula
137 Other possible programs:

America's Funniest Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch

Law & Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch

Everybody Loves Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch

2008-01-03 12:29:25
140.   Andrew Shimmin
It would almost be worth it for Enders's candidate to end up at the bottom of the ticket I suspect will win the general. The White House would be like a teenage sex romp, with the President cast as the crusty Dean. Somebody get Dick Morris on the phone, there's gotta be a job for him somewhere. Blumenthal's going to need flash cards to remember which epithet attaches to which accuser.
2008-01-03 12:30:17
141.   wronghanded
139 Malcolm Kicking Penarol in the Middle
2008-01-03 12:30:53
142.   fanerman
139 Just mix in the occasional Dodgers game and Wonder Years episode and we'll have the perfect Dodger thoughts channel.
2008-01-03 12:33:25
143.   wronghanded
138 Good point, I didn't factor in inflation, I just hate to think that big-money, special-interests factor into our policy making in the U.S.
2008-01-03 12:33:32
144.   Daniel Zappala
117 Manhunt is a great book.
2008-01-03 12:34:32
145.   Humma Kavula
142 It would probably also have to air the very X-rated series, "Tell Me You Love Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch."
2008-01-03 12:35:46
146.   Greg Brock
143 Special interests have just as much right to participate in the electoral process as Amos Q. Farmer, Iowa voter. Special interests are made up of people too.

Popular position to have, I know.

2008-01-03 12:35:48
147.   Andrew Shimmin
Speaking of Law and Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch, did anybody think that what L&O really needed was a dreamier, Inspector Gadgety version of Jack McCoy? I'm not thrilled with pretend Vincent Donofrio either.
2008-01-03 12:37:23
148.   bigcpa
The White Sox may have found their CF. They got Swisher for Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney and Fautino De Los Santos.
2008-01-03 12:41:01
149.   Penarol1916
137. It would follow along the lines of what Humma Kavula would come up with, me getting kicked in the crotch in various traditional TV situations:

Who Wants to Kick Penarol in the Crotch?

Friday Night Kicks to Penarol's Crotch

and so on. The key would be that I would not go more than 5 minutes without getting kicked in the crotch with no reruns. And I would still enjoy it more than CBS, especially coverage of the Masters, my least favorite annual sporting event.

2008-01-03 12:41:06
150.   Andrew Shimmin
Instead of passing a law about how much money I should be allowed to give to a politician, wouldn't it be better all the way around if the law were against politicians being on television? That way, they wouldn't be on television. See how much better that is? CSPAN could go wall-to-wall BookTV!
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-01-03 12:41:47
151.   MC Safety
The slightest mention of someone getting kicked in the crotch brings a smile to my face every time for some reason.
2008-01-03 12:43:07
152.   wronghanded
146 But does Amos Q. Farmer have as much voting influence as the CEO of a mega-corp? Granted Amos might really only be interested in keeping the gun-rack strapped onto his 1985 Chevy S-10 but the CEO might only be looking to hire half of India as his technical-support team (and where Amos's wife currently works).
2008-01-03 12:44:20
153.   trainwreck
I miss Swisher.
2008-01-03 12:45:01
154.   regfairfield
148 Well, I guess that's one way to solve the fact they have nothing but outfielders and first basemen. Still Swisher for Gonzalez, someone who hasn't done a thing, and a guy that doesn't exist as far as I can tell doesn't seem like a great deal.
2008-01-03 12:45:18
155.   D4P
The slightest mention of someone getting kicked in the crotch brings a smile to my face every time for some reason

Bob Saget thanks people like you for his millions of dollars.

2008-01-03 12:45:30
156.   MC Safety
149 T G I K P I T C.

Thank God it's kick Penarol1916 In The Crotch night would be watchable.

2008-01-03 12:46:19
157.   Greg Brock
152 So the problem isn't that interests are allowed in politics; the problem is that the "wrong" interests have disproportionate influence.

Amos Q. Farmer has less influence because he does. Most people aren't farmers anymore.

2008-01-03 12:46:30
158.   fanerman
153 Me, too. But only because of the possibility of trading JP to the White Sox.
2008-01-03 12:46:56
159.   Humma Kavula
When Billy Beane rebuilds, he doesn't fool around.

I wonder what it would take to get Blanton?

And if Beane does trade Blanton, I wonder if the A's would win more than 45 games?

2008-01-03 12:47:24
160.   regfairfield
Ah, De Los Santos appears to actually be good. At least he actually got a decent talent haul for Swisher.
2008-01-03 12:48:34
161.   Penarol1916
146. In my opinion, Amos Q. Farmer is among the most harmful special interests there is, but in the end, we are all a member of some special interest group or other.
2008-01-03 12:48:52
162.   Benaiah
I think it is going to go:

Obama, Edwards, Clinton

Huckabee, Romney, McCain

This will settle nothing and the spotlight will move on to NH.

2008-01-03 12:49:21
163.   Eric Enders
Which movie will win Best Picture?

We Own Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch
The Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch Ultimatum
Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch at World's End
There Will Be Blood When Penarol Gets Kicked in the Crotch
Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch by the Coward Robert Ford
No Country For Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch
3:10 to Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch

and then a classic...
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Penarol Getting Kicked in the Crotch

2008-01-03 12:50:39
164.   wronghanded
157 Bingo! I agree, I just think that the current system is flawed and that it has been exploited (now more than ever IMO).
2008-01-03 12:51:13
165.   Penarol1916
152. Amos Q. Farmer has a huge amount of power, have you not seen our farm bill?
2008-01-03 12:51:32
166.   regfairfield
Why would the White Sox do this move is a better question. It's not like it puts them anywhere near contention and knocks out the last remnants of their farm system.
2008-01-03 12:51:47
167.   Humma Kavula
162 While it would settle nothing, it would sure hurt Romney to finish second in Iowa. He would have to finish first in NH to remain a viable candidate, IMO.
2008-01-03 12:53:46
168.   Greg Brock
164 19th century political machinery would probably make your head explode.

Vote Tammany!

2008-01-03 12:53:58
169.   MC Safety
Walk Hard: The Penarol1916 Getting Kicked In The Crotch Story.
2008-01-03 12:54:04
170.   Eric Enders
It should be noted that everyone also thought Kenny Williams wasn't near contention the year he ended up winning the World Series.
2008-01-03 12:54:56
171.   Greg Brock
165 See, I don't bring up farm subsidies, and you pick up the slack.

I try not to anger the farmers.

2008-01-03 12:55:15
172.   Jon Weisman
147 - Law & Order post at Season Pass. Comments encouraged.

2008-01-03 12:56:36
173.   Eric Enders
For those who think farmers carry no clout, stop and think about why almost every American-manufactured item you consume contains corn syrup instead of real sugar.
2008-01-03 12:58:56
174.   Disabled List
165 Amos Q. Farmer has a huge amount of power, have you not seen our farm bill?

You have Amos Q. Agroindustrial Corporation to thank for that one.

2008-01-03 13:00:27
175.   KevinP78
167 I agree. If Romney doesn't get a headstart, McCain or Giulliani pass him easily once the delegate rich states have their say.
2008-01-03 13:01:07
176.   regfairfield
170 I suppose praying for all your pitchers to beat their 90% projections again is a valid strategy.

The team might have a decent offense, but they have very little pitching and no defense other than the left side of the infield. Plus they have to contend with Cleveland and Detroit this year. I could appreciate the move if it meant the Sox would contend in 2-3 years with Swisher being a big part of the offense, but they only have two B prospects left and no one good but Buerhle and maybe Danks and Fields locked up to 2010. It just seems like suicide for the White Sox

2008-01-03 13:02:26
177.   Andrew Shimmin
165- Their day is coming; the forces marshaled to fight the war against obesity are going to figure out how high-fructose corn syrup works and it'll be on. It's like the war against science people and animal rights activists. Red on red politics--catch the fever!
2008-01-03 13:02:44
178.   Humma Kavula
175 That's funny, I was just about to take back my post in 167 by saying that Romney remains a viable candidate for as long as he's willing to pour millions of his own money into his campaign. His other sources of money might dry up but that guy is rich, rich, rich, and if he's willing to spend it, he can get people to vote for him.
2008-01-03 13:03:50
179.   Hythloday
151 It works on so many levels
2008-01-03 13:05:05
180.   Penarol1916
171. For more information about my anger at farmers, look at my comment in The Juice's most recent post.
2008-01-03 13:05:48
181.   Daniel Zappala
High fructose corn syrup is evil. I'm grateful my parents never let me drink soda.
2008-01-03 13:08:36
182.   Hythloday
161 I don't know, Mearsheimer and Walt told me last year that my peeps were most damaging special interest group in the country. Well that, and that we dine on the blood of Christian children. But you know, whatever.
2008-01-03 13:08:49
183.   Penarol1916
174. It isn't just the agroindustrial corporations that are behind the farm bill. I worked for a while in Washington for an ag research group that did a lot of work for farmers and rural development groups and the amount of junk that goes to just farmers of the 5 big crops is astounding. The farmers by themselves have a hefty lobbying group.
2008-01-03 13:09:51
184.   D4P
If I understand correctly, high fructose corn syrup turns directly into fat when ingested.
2008-01-03 13:10:11
185.   Sushirabbit
So, is the war on smoking working? (I won't get into what was done with all the money won in lawsuits).

Is anyone here an actuarial? I know I should ask the ones in my building, but I was recounting a story to my 6-yo, and it occurred to me that if smoking has decreased in a significant way, would not house fires have decreased by a close amount? My crazy mind wants to know.

2008-01-03 13:13:55
186.   Jon Weisman
181 - I had a Zappala-approved lunch today, with the possible exception of the PB&J sandwich.
2008-01-03 13:14:22
187.   Bob Timmermann
I think the people who work in actuarial science are called actuaries.

That profession always ranks very high in job satisfaction.

2008-01-03 13:15:03
188.   dzzrtRatt
I avoid high fructose corn syrup as much as I can, but it's hard to do. It's in most breads (one exception: Orowheat Wheatberry). I noticed this holiday season that it's in egg nog. Corn in egg nog, who knew?

High Fructose Corn Syrup is literally poison. Societies that have never known widespread obesity are experiencing it now because high-fructose corn syrup is being added to so many packaged goods they eat.

It's also why Coca-Cola doesn't taste as good as we of a certain age remember it tasting.

117 one thing I found surprising is that the author contends that in 1865, it was possible for any ordinary citizen to just walk into the White House, request a meeting with the President, and be given a few minutes of Lincoln's time later that same day.

When Lincoln took office, there were lines outside the WH of people wanting federal jobs. People would stand in line all day and all night. They expected Lincoln himself to consider their requests and humble ol' Abe thought it was his duty to give them his time. The Civil War was brewing, and here was Lincoln, talking to some guy about why his brother should be named head of the Kankakee post office.

Lincoln was a great president, but he did some dumb things.

2008-01-03 13:15:28
189.   fanerman
181 I've recently found coke bottled in Mexico that uses real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup. They sell it at Costco sometimes.
2008-01-03 13:16:38
190.   D4P
Whole Foods seems to do a relatively good job of avoiding high fructose corn syrup products.
2008-01-03 13:17:48
191.   fanerman
187 I think if I didn't become an engineer I would have done that... it sounds interesting.
2008-01-03 13:18:16
192.   Penarol1916
189. In a lot of countries they still do, and the soda is much better. In Mexico, most of the large sugar companies are actually owned by the Coke and Pepsi bottlers in the country.
2008-01-03 13:19:42
193.   Eric Enders
185 I don't know about smoking cigarettes, but I do know that studies have found that the PSAs against smoking marijuana are so condescending and transparently non-factual that they actually make those who view them MORE likely to try it.

2008-01-03 13:19:58
194.   fanerman
192 Yeah. I think it tastes better than US coke, as dzzrtRatt alluded. It also comes in a glass bottle that requires a bottle opener to open. It's more expensive, but I don't drink soda often, and the Mexican coke satisfies my occasional cravings.
2008-01-03 13:21:51
195.   Greg Brock
193 Shhhhh...
2008-01-03 13:22:44
196.   Eric Enders
"Mexican coke satisfies my occasional cravings."

I think we have found a new fanerman quote to replace the one on the sidebar.

2008-01-03 13:24:07
197.   fanerman
196 Quotes are how I contribute to the Dodger Thoughts community.
2008-01-03 13:24:57
198.   Disabled List
I've always wondered why Mexico uses real sugar in its Coke. Is it just because cane sugar is much cheaper there? Coke uses corn syrup in the US, because we have lots of corn here. But they have corn in Mexico too, right?
2008-01-03 13:26:10
199.   D4P
"Mexican coke, like TiVo, is one of those things you can completely do without until you start using it."
2008-01-03 13:28:00
200.   fanerman
196 199 Speaking of which, I was going to bring some Mexican coke to work today, to have with lunch. But I forgot. I wonder if that will help or hinder my productivity.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-01-03 13:29:01
201.   berkowit28
76 "I'm surprised by Jon's venture into Rule #5 territory today. I am waiting for his allowance of venturing into Rule #11 territory."

It's Rule #9 breaking I'm waiting for. It's the only rule that is not rational. It's just superstition/tradition, an unlikely taboo for a blog that values statistics and rational discussion. Since we're a couple months away from even an exhibition no-hitter and there's nothing at stake, it might be a good day to discuss the "no-hitter no-mention process" as opposed to an actual unmentioned no-hitter...

2008-01-03 13:29:03
202.   Penarol1916
198. Cane sugar is much cheaper everywhere but the US because of two reasons:

Sugar farmers in Florida and Louisiana have worked with the US corn farmers to put hard quotas on the amount of sugar that can be imported to the US at a reasonable price, thus sugar is so much more expensive in the US than anywhere else in the world it is shocking.

The amount of subsidies we give our corn farmers makes the price of HFC very cheap compared to the rest of the world.

2008-01-03 13:29:07
203.   fanerman
"Mexican coke, like TiVo, is one of those things you can completely do without until you start using it."

Well, I think I could get by without Mexican coke. I don't really get addicted to that kind of stuff.

2008-01-03 13:29:43
204.   KevinP78
Thankfully, I work in Santa Ana. There is a truck outside of the office that serves up some of the finest asada burritos and tacos and of course, their Coke comes in a bottle. :)
2008-01-03 13:32:06
205.   Penarol1916
202. Should say cane sugar is much cheaper than corn syrup everywhere else in the world.

It should also be noted that the questions shouldn't be why Mexico and many other countries use sugar in Coke, but why Coke in the US uses corn syrup since soda in the US originally used sugar rather than corn syrup and it was entirely because of the low price of corn syrup compared to sugar in the US that the switch was made.

2008-01-03 13:33:51
206.   Andrew Shimmin
It's also why ethanol works in Brazil, but not in the US.
2008-01-03 13:35:38
207.   Branch Rickey
I've been interested in why Diet Coke came out with a Splenda sweetened version. I've actually found that I do prefer it but it seems like an odd product differentiation. According to Wikipedia, Wal-Mart pressured Coke to come out with this because they thought there was consumer demand. But.... really? That doesn't sound right. Anyone know any more about this?
2008-01-03 13:37:29
208.   Jon Weisman
201 - Rule 9 is rational for me!

200 - Fanerman's main contribution is that every time I see his name, he makes me think happily of the Ferryman's Funeral Home episode of WKRP.

"Hey, you're young and swingin'
No time to think about tomorrow.
But there ain't no way to deny it,
Someday you're gonna buy it.
Don't hesitate and call Ferryman,
Ferryman, Ferryman, he's the man with the plot,
the man with the plan.
Ferryman, Ferryman he's the mortician man who loves you,
a lot!
Bye, Bye
Bye, Bye"

2008-01-03 13:37:34
209.   Humma Kavula
When Jon publishes DodgerThoughts: The Magazine, fanerman can be the centerfold.

Turn-ons: Tivo, Mexican Coke, that one episode of The Wonder Years

2008-01-03 13:38:09
210.   Branch Rickey
205. Been a while since I read my Coca-Cola history books but wasn't that switch made when sugar was rationed during WWII? And then I think after that it was some embargo on imported sugar as was mentioned above.
2008-01-03 13:38:16
211.   JoeyP
This does bring up the question of how takes over the role of useless utility guy

I dont think any position on the 25 man roster is useless. There's varying degrees of usage..unless a player never plays.

Ideally, the Dodgers would be so stacked with talent that even the 25th man on the roster would be an uber prospect. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you have 100Abs to hand out, you dont want Royce Clayton taking them. You want Tony Abreu.

2008-01-03 13:39:11
212.   Andrew Shimmin
207- Diet books. For whatever reason, the fitness industrial complex took against saccharine (I mean, I know the reason I'm against it--it tastes bad--but I don't know why they are).
2008-01-03 13:41:07
213.   Eric Enders
They seem to be gradually taking all the good stuff out of Coca-Cola. Cocaine, sugar... what's next, no water?
2008-01-03 13:43:26
214.   dzzrtRatt
To bring things full circle, I think McCain (or was it Fred Thompson?) actually had the Rule Ones to campaign in Iowa against corn subsidies.

I'm surprised he wasn't shot.

193 During my PR days, I got to know the advertising guy at Asher/Gould who came up with the social marketing concepts that produced California's effective anti-smoking ads. The basic idea was, young would-be smokers disapprove of authority. If their government is telling them "don't smoke," it's counterproductive. Young people hate the government, especially when it plays nanny.

So the advertisers came up with the idea of casting the tobacco industry as the authority figures -- authority figures who are trying to trick you into smoking. Don't let tobacco industry tell you what to do! I'm not sure words like "cancer" or "emphysema" were mentioned. The ads were about "stickin' it to the man" by not smoking.

The campaign seemingly worked. It moved the needle.

2008-01-03 13:44:26
215.   Greg Brock
I'm going to add sugar-based soft drinks to the party platform.

Nulear power, non-pasteurized milk, sugar-based cola.

2008-01-03 13:46:39
216.   Andrew Shimmin
214- Both did; McCain was louder and clearer about it.
2008-01-03 13:47:04
217.   JoeyP
The Swisher trade works well for the White Sox if they play him in CF.

The White Sox are getting an entering their prime CF's, with a career .825 OPS, already signed to a reasonable contract.

I'm not sure what the A's are getting, but it better be something good because there arent many CF'ers that can produce like Swisher that have reasonable contracts.

I dont see how it hurts the White Sox giving up a couple prospects bc you can reload your farm system every single year with having good drafts/international signings. Its not like what they gave up was that close to the big leagues.

Beane's lost alot of his mojo since DePo left IMO. Maybe he should fire his number crunchers and get some new ones.

2008-01-03 13:47:04
218.   JoeyP
The Swisher trade works well for the White Sox if they play him in CF.

The White Sox are getting an entering their prime CF's, with a career .825 OPS, already signed to a reasonable contract.

I'm not sure what the A's are getting, but it better be something good because there arent many CF'ers that can produce like Swisher that have reasonable contracts.

I dont see how it hurts the White Sox giving up a couple prospects bc you can reload your farm system every single year with having good drafts/international signings. Its not like what they gave up was that close to the big leagues.

Beane's lost alot of his mojo since DePo left IMO. Maybe he should fire his number crunchers and get some new ones.

2008-01-03 13:47:12
219.   Branch Rickey
212. But I don't believe that regular Diet Coke has saccharine in it. I believe it's sweetened with Aspartame which BTW breaks down rather quickly which is why old Diet Coke tastes like fish tank water.
2008-01-03 13:49:53
220.   CanuckDodger
211 -- Abreu would probably be a better utility infielder for the Dodgers in 2008 than any alternative, but if the plan is for Abreu to take over for Kent as our regular 2B in 2009, then it makes no sense to use Abreu as a bench guy in 2008 rather than having him play everyday in Vegas. It eats up a year of Abreu's service time AND hinders his development.
2008-01-03 13:50:16
221.   Eric Enders
212 Health-concerned folks are against saccharin (the pink packet, for those keeping score) because it causes cancer in rats. That, and the fact that Splenda tastes about 100 times better, should make it a no-brainer. The question should not be why there is Diet Coke made with Splenda, but why there is Diet Coke made without it.

The other low-cal sweetener, aspartame (the blue packet) is also suspected of causing brain cancer and lymphoma.

The worst thing about Sucralose (the yellow packet), so far as I know, is that it may or may not cause weird genetic mutations in lab animals.

2008-01-03 13:51:09
222.   JimBilly4
After having read about 1000 different pieces on the Iowa Caucus and the obvious perversity of having two states have such a dramatic impact on the Primary process, I think I now know why nothing will change:

Everyone has an idea for fixing the system and every idea is different and often diametrically opposed.

1) A National Single Day Primary
2) 5-6 Regional Primaries at 3 week intervals
3) Keep a random selection of small states first before a big 30 state primary.
4) Assigning primary state order on the basis of their election day turnout.

With no clear idea what to do to fix the situation, it is virtually impossible to get up the political will to fix it.

But the temptation to come up with your own is inescapable:
My personal favorite is to split the country into 5 regions (10 states each) and randomly select one from each for the first primary day, then do it 3-4 more times before the final super tuesday. It addresses almost all the problems: Most states are smallish so there should always be a good collection of small states where a candidate could press flesh and make himself known, so it wouldn't always mean most money wins. No one region decides the President. Big states don't get screwed out of the process.

2008-01-03 13:51:16
223.   Bob Timmermann
I don't believe any diet drink in the U.S. is made with Saccharin any more. It's either aspratame or Splenda.
2008-01-03 13:51:18
224.   Humma Kavula
215 Before I vote for you, I gotta ask: why are you for raw milk?
2008-01-03 13:52:17
225.   Jon Weisman
2008 Bloggie Awards

2008-01-03 13:52:27
226.   Eric Enders
220 One might make the argument that 250 major league at-bats would help Abreu's development more than 500 Las Vegas at-bats. And it would certainly help the team more in the short run, as Abreu would likely be the best utility infielder in baseball.
2008-01-03 13:52:33
227.   KevinP78
215 I love it. That is one hell of a platform!

Regarding cigarettes and the anti-smoking laws in the books and those pending (in California they're working on signatures to get a bill on the ballot that will raise the price per pack by an additional $1.75 tax. With said $1.75 tax we will all then be given universal health care! Hurray!), I find them rather ironic. On one hand, we hope the extra $1.75 will discourage smoking and increase health. On the other, we're hoping not a single smoker quits because it's up to them to pick up the health care tab. Ahhhh, Government! Awesome!

2008-01-03 13:53:47
228.   Andrew Shimmin
I didn't know saccharine was different from aspartame. One more thing that tastes bad. I still think I'm right about that the diet books are doing the legwork for the Sucralose people. I don't understand diet soda on any level. Bubbles are a necessary but not sufficient reason for drinking soda. If you want something with caffeine, but no sugar, have coffee. It's terrific!
2008-01-03 13:54:18
229.   Greg Brock
224 I'm for the right to drink raw milk if one so desires.

As for the substance itself, I ain't fer it or agin it.

2008-01-03 13:54:45
230.   Sushirabbit
215 I'm in. Wait, is, um, Lisa Nowak the candidate?
2008-01-03 13:54:52
231.   Bob Timmermann
Greg Brock runs on a pro-salmonella poisoning platform.

It's very edgy.

2008-01-03 13:57:44
232.   Humma Kavula

"Yes, the children need milk that will make them healthy, not sick. But what of the bacteria? Won't anyone think of the bacteria?"

2008-01-03 13:59:01
233.   KevinP78
231 I don't think he's so much pro-salmonella as he is anti-discriminatory toward it.

Still edgy. Still frowned upon.

2008-01-03 13:59:21
234.   CanuckDodger
217 -- The idea that Swisher is a CF is ridiculous, but hey, if you don't care about defense at all, you can really play anybody anywhere.

A good trade for Oakland, but making Kenny Williams look foolish isn't rocket science, or even go-cart repair.

2008-01-03 14:00:00
235.   Greg Brock
232 The children can drink whichever milk their parents purchase for them. Pasteurized or no.

Why do you hate the average American raw milk enthusiast? Slave to the special interests, huh?

2008-01-03 14:00:17
236.   Eric Enders
228 Coffee is great. I am the world's biggest proponent of coffee. But sometimes when it's 105 degrees out, I want something cold, and I don't want to pay Starbucks three bucks for some frou-frou cold coffee drink.

Also, sometimes I want something with caffeine, but less caffeine than coffee.

2008-01-03 14:00:25
237.   Andrew Shimmin
231- He could have a weight loss by salmonella book tie in!
2008-01-03 14:03:24
238.   Greg Brock
The New Whigs are also in favor of competing currencies backed by metal. Just to turn off the few of you that might actually be interested.

You people joke about Schrutebucks and Stanley Nickels. I want to make them a reality.

2008-01-03 14:05:23
239.   fanerman
208 Anything to help the team! I've never heard of WKRP before. I'll have to look that up.
2008-01-03 14:06:57
240.   CanuckDodger
Canada also has real sugar in pop, and it tastes a heck of a lot better than American pop.

I drink Diet 7-UP, and what I don't understand is why Canadian Diet 7-Up tastes so much better than the American version. They both use aspertame. Though looking at a Canadian bottle, I see the Canadian version also has something called acesulfame-potassium, and I don't know if the US kind has that.

2008-01-03 14:07:16
241.   Humma Kavula
235 I typed a big long answer to that, but it violates Rule Five. Jon has been good to let us discuss politics today and I don't want to push my luck.
2008-01-03 14:09:19
242.   fanerman
209 That's a really really bad idea. I bet a centerfold of Penarol being kicked in the crotch would be much more popular.

I've actually never seen an episode of The Wonder Years in its entirety. I was a bit too young to enjoy it when it was on. I suppose I thought Danica was pretty (and still is), though. I'm not really as much into her as other people here, though I do think it's awesome that she's into math.

2008-01-03 14:09:21
243.   Greg Brock
241 I understand completely. Nothing galvanizes the average citizen today than the milk issue.

It's the fourth rail of American politics.

2008-01-03 14:13:52
244.   Marty
If you find yourself in Highland Park, stop by Galco's on York blvd. You can get Mexican coke there as well as any other soft drink made anywhere in the country.
2008-01-03 14:14:18
245.   Disabled List
Human beings were not meant to ingest the mammary gland secretions of cows. Just MHO.
2008-01-03 14:16:50
246.   Bob Timmermann
My father was a dairy farmer and he didn't drink pasteurized milk until he got married. My mom, who grew up in the city and also worked as a medical lab tech, was not going for any of that raw milk stuff.

She bought a home pasteurizing machine.

2008-01-03 14:17:22
247.   Humma Kavula
246 That is why I drink nothing but Bride of Kavula's pure, grade-A breastmilk.

Sure, my baby is starving. My child needs her mother's milk. But what of me? Won't anyone think of me?

2008-01-03 14:17:38
248.   D4P
Human beings were not meant to ingest the mammary gland secretions of cows

Isn't it strange that so many adult humans think it's normal to drink cow's milk, but bizarre to drink human's milk?

2008-01-03 14:18:06
249.   Eric Enders
There is nothing more disgusting than ingesting the fertilized embryo of flightless bird.
2008-01-03 14:18:11
250.   Humma Kavula
247 is in response to 245 .
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-01-03 14:20:09
251.   Marty
This is turning into my all-time favorite thread.
2008-01-03 14:21:28
252.   fanerman
247 Yeah, but is it pasteurized?
2008-01-03 14:23:52
253.   Jon Weisman
251 - It's got a certain zest, doesn't it?
2008-01-03 14:23:56
254.   underdog
Fanerman's never heard of WKRP, and 2 days after my birthday I only now officially feel old. OLD. That's the sound of turkeys you hear dropping from the sky.

Wow, the Swisher trade surprised the heck out of me. Getting Gio Gonzalez and de los Santos is a nice score, I guess. They sure will have a strong AAA team this year, at the least. I look forward to Ken Arneson's assessment.

2008-01-03 14:24:47
255.   underdog
Is there anyone left we can trade Pierre to? Can we sell him to Korea with Valdez?
2008-01-03 14:24:54
256.   Jon Weisman
Diamond Leung says the Valdez deal is imminent but not done.
2008-01-03 14:24:59
257.   Greg Brock
246 And look what universal pasteurization has done to the home-pasteurization machine industry. Devastated.

Think about the man selling pasteurization machines door to door, now jobless.

Who weeps for him?

2008-01-03 14:26:36
258.   D4P
Diamond Leung says the Valdez deal is imminent but not done

Yeah. Will Exxon ever pay?

2008-01-03 14:26:48
259.   Marty
I'd like to contribute to the Penarol part:

If you haven't seen Penarol get kicked in the crotch, then it's new to you.

2008-01-03 14:27:03
260.   Eric Enders
So is the Seoul Times going to go with the obvious headline, "Valdez is Coming"?
2008-01-03 14:28:28
261.   underdog
And who is paying the Soy and Rice Milk Pasteurizers of America? Huh? That's what I want to know. They provide me with a balanced breakfast every morning.
2008-01-03 14:29:01
262.   Eric Enders
As far as the Oakland fire sale goes, I wonder if Ned wouldn't rather have Huston Street than Joe Blanton at this point.
2008-01-03 14:30:52
263.   KevinP78
257 I've always subscribed to the school of thought that puts the interests of the individual door-to-door-milk-pasteurization-machine-selling man over and above those sellouts down at the big, greedy, subsidized, corporate farms!
2008-01-03 14:31:19
264.   Penarol1916
If we were to require raw milk then we could completely cut out the fat cat milk processors entirely and buy our milk directly from the farmer. Of course, it would devestate the California Dairy farmers, who provide the bulk of our Ultra-High Temperature milk.

I resent 251. because I think Marty only likes this thread because of personal animus towards me and enjoys the thought of me getting kicked repeatedly in the crotch.

2008-01-03 14:32:58
265.   CanuckDodger
262 -- I presume Ned doesn't want either of them; they are certainly not needed.
2008-01-03 14:33:13
266.   Strike4
Chalk up another benefit of a visit to Hawaii. The older better formula 7-Up still seems to be used there, at least at the Maui Costco. Wife said it's just that things taste better on vacation. That may be true about the BLT at the Hyatt, but there is a definite recipe difference to the 7-Up. Maybe corn syrup hasn't made its way there yet.
2008-01-03 14:33:29
267.   Humma Kavula
264 Just think -- this thread would have been even better if you had originally referred to your crotch as your "Rule One," and thus THAT was the phrase that was repeated over and over.
2008-01-03 14:33:44
268.   fanerman
254 Turkeys dropping from the sky? Is that another old person's expression?

I don't like the Swisher trade because it kills whatever vague hope there was for a Pierre-to-White-Sox trade.

2008-01-03 14:34:29
269.   Ken Noe
Just saw the Swisher deal: I can't decide if it's is a sad coda to Moneyball or the brilliant sequel. Either way I may have to go out and manically lift weights.
2008-01-03 14:34:58
270.   Jon Weisman
Fanerman is now making me sad. Very sad.
2008-01-03 14:35:21
271.   Marty
If we were to require raw milk then we could completely cut out the fat cat milk processors entirely and buy our milk directly from the farmer. Of course, it would devestate the California Dairy farmers, who provide the bulk of our Ultra-High Temperature milk.

Harold Steuve would kiss you if he were alive.

2008-01-03 14:38:06
272.   Penarol1916
Who is Harold Steuve? Is he against the huge dairy farms in California? Or just against Ultra High Temperature Milk?
2008-01-03 14:38:15
273.   KevinP78
Fanerman's next blunder: Who's this Whinnie Cooper girl that had a birthday today?
2008-01-03 14:39:10
274.   fanerman
273 Hey hey. I can at least spell Winnie Cooper's name right.
2008-01-03 14:40:13
275.   fanerman
270 Oh no! If this actually was baseball, I'd voluntarily bench myself and let a better commenter post in my stead. But I don't think I'm taking up a better commenter's posting time, am I?
2008-01-03 14:40:36
276.   KevinP78
2008-01-03 14:41:01
277.   Marty
Steuve founded Alta Dena dairy in Southern California with his brother. They were always getting fined for selling raw milk.
2008-01-03 14:41:20
278.   Penarol1916
My wife just found out that her achilles tendon seperated from her heel. That's bad if you're a waitress by night and chase after 3 toddlers by day, right?
2008-01-03 14:44:03
279.   KevinP78
278 Oh no! That's terrible news Penarol! Sorry to hear that.
2008-01-03 14:44:43
280.   Jon Weisman
Fanerman wouldn't know Jan Smithers if she walked up behind those glasses and kissed him. What more can be said?
2008-01-03 14:45:25
281.   oklahomadodger
278 from the tone of this thread, you could just get her some mexican coke and some raw milk and she'll be back on her feet in no time. hope she has a quick recovery.
2008-01-03 14:47:20
282.   underdog

Turkey drop, explained. Not an old person's expression, though I guess it could become a 39 yr old's expression very soon.

2008-01-03 14:48:25
283.   underdog
Oops, that link doesn't work any more (for rights issues, I'm sure.) Try this explanation:
2008-01-03 14:49:07
284.   Kevin Lewis
Is there a place on youtube where I can see Penarol being kicked in the crotch?

Once I saw Kevin Arnold turn down Madeline in his French class, I knew he had horrible taste. I mean come on, Winnie for Madeline, that's like pasteurized blue non-fat milk in place of the pure whole milk.

2008-01-03 14:50:07
285.   Jon Weisman
278 - Really sorry to hear that.
2008-01-03 14:50:23
286.   fanerman
280 You're right. Though I did just read a short bio of her on Wikipedia.

283 Ah. A WKRP reference. I will have to check if NetFlix has this. Though maybe I should put The Wonder Years on first (if that's available).

2008-01-03 14:50:32
287.   Penarol1916
279. She should be okay after a couple of days, hopefully this will actually get her off of her feet, which she refused to do yesterday.

280. Who is Jan Smithers?

2008-01-03 14:53:56
288.   fanerman
287 She's an actress who was on WKRP in Cincinatti, a sitcom about a radio station which aired in the late 70's and early 80's (involving a character named Ferryman and turkeys falling from the sky). She has a scar on her chin from a car accident she was in as a teenager. There were rumors that Barbara Streisand stole her boyfriend, but she quashed them a few years ago.
2008-01-03 14:54:29
289.   delias man
I feel good. Keith Law thinks Hochevar's ceiling is #4 starter. I hope he is right.
2008-01-03 14:54:44
290.   Sushirabbit
Wow, I never heard that about Yellville. I can find out for sure if that happened there.
2008-01-03 14:55:12
291.   Eric Enders
278 That's really bad news. On the other hand, it's one less person who can kick you in the crotch.
2008-01-03 14:55:49
292.   Humma Kavula
278 That's horrible. Tell her to rest up and get better soon.
2008-01-03 14:58:00
293.   Penarol1916
Thanks for the good wishes for my wife everybody, I worry more about my children kicking me than my wife. And with that, I'm home to watch the Orange Bowl and the Iowa Caucus results.
2008-01-03 14:59:40
294.   Bob Timmermann
Don't forget to participate in the exciting Orange Bowl chat over on the Griddle tonight.

Over/under on comments - 10.

2008-01-03 15:00:28
295.   Humma Kavula
294 What kind of odds are you giving on that?
2008-01-03 15:00:57
296.   Bob Timmermann
If they only had projects like this during the heyday of the WPA:

2008-01-03 15:01:49
297.   Bob Timmermann
The odds are for entertainment purposes only.

But the over/under line is -350.

2008-01-03 15:03:09
298.   underdog
Sorry to hear that Pen. Hope she recovers and you survive it!

In less less - but still somewhat - distressing news, my soccer team's keeper broke a bone in his foot this week so I have to find another keeper for our upcoming season. Did he break it playing soccer, you ask? No, you'd assume that, but no, he hurt it - I kid you not - while hanging laundry to dry and turned his foot wrong. That's like a plot out of WKRP. Sigh.

2008-01-03 15:05:18
299.   Humma Kavula
298 Also out of WKRP: Bob's link in 296 , which mentions halfway through the story that the mayor of New Delhi died in an attack by wild monkeys.
2008-01-03 15:07:16
300.   Kevin Lewis

I pitched for my baseball team in High School and played goalie for the soccer team. Goalie was a lot more fun and exciting.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-01-03 15:11:41
301.   Jon Weisman
288 - I suppose that's one way to sum her up.
2008-01-03 15:13:59
302.   underdog
301 My own personal wikipedia entry just says she was incredibly cute and one of my first TV crushes. Much more succinct.
2008-01-03 15:16:02
303.   Jon Weisman
It started with Newsweek:

Straight outta Taft High School:

2008-01-03 15:19:36
304.   Lexinthedena
Baltimore is now the only place I can see Pierre going....and what are the odds of that?


2008-01-03 15:23:07
305.   Humma Kavula
Baltimore! Like being hit in the head with a crowbar once a day.
2008-01-03 15:23:33
306.   Jon Weisman
Great Jan Smithers episodes:

Bailey's Show
For Love or Money
Bailey's Big Break
I Am Woman (Save the Flimm!)
Dear Liar

2008-01-03 15:24:37
307.   Humma Kavula
306 You had your chance to call that...

Excellent Smithers episodes

2008-01-03 15:33:42
308.   D4P
I'm not sure a coach who is fined $500,000 for cheating should be eligible to win his league's "Coach of the Year" award.
2008-01-03 15:36:01
309.   Jon Weisman
307 - True!

But instead, I've got a whole new post at Screen Jam dedicated to them.

2008-01-03 15:45:30
310.   Sam DC
Yikes Penarol, quick recovery to your wife.
2008-01-03 15:47:50
311.   Jason in Canada
I clicked onto DT to see 309 comments and thought "Wow, that's alot for a fairly new post, maybe JP got traded!"

Instead there is just a bunch of political talk.

After moving to Canada 6 six years ago, I have taken a sabbatical from thinking about U.S. politics...

Have fun with the elections everyone! Better you than me...

Where's CanuckDodger anyway, we can chat about the Bastardo prospect or something... ;)

2008-01-03 15:49:44
312.   Jim Hitchcock
Jon: Do you remember where you found the link showing Smithers on the back of the motorcycle, on the cover of Life?
2008-01-03 15:50:42
313.   eekrock
you know, you leave for a business meeting and the year's best thread shows up...

anyways, I believe I can say I'm on board for the New Whig party. I'm currently registered under Nation of Ulysses, which certainly rules me out of future Public Service.

I'm surprised nobody jumped on KevinP's Lebowski reference. Lebowski references are the lifeblood of conversation 'round my parts.

286 Wonder Years is not yet available on DVD to my best recollection. I did sign an online petition some time ago, but haven't heard anything since. Hopefully, the petitino I signed for the movie Rad comes through any day now. Seems I had luck with the MTV show the State.

lastly, sorry to hear about the wyf, Pen.

Sorry for the long post everyone.

2008-01-03 15:52:50
314.   Jim Hitchcock
Oops, nevermind...just saw your Newsweek link,
2008-01-03 15:54:27
315.   El Lay Dave
22 I agree with Marty's ID of Wes Parker 47 . The gent with the cellphone (#17) is Carl Erskine, who started the first Los Angeles Dodger home game by throwing the first pitch:

I think Erskine is speaking with Jeff Kent, who called to tell everyone to tuck in their jerseys.

2008-01-03 15:54:35
316.   CanuckDodger
311 -- I'm curious, Jason, why did you move to Canada? What part of Canada are you living in, and what part of the US did you used to live in?
2008-01-03 15:55:09
317.   El Lay Dave
311 Don't underestimate the entertainment value of Penarol kicked in the crotch.
2008-01-03 15:57:25
318.   silverwidow
Diamond Leung says the Valdez deal is imminent but not done.

The blog entry is dated January 2, so perhaps it was completed last night.

2008-01-03 16:02:51
319.   El Lay Dave
Penarol, best to your wife - but a couple days doesn't sound long enough for a separated achilles tendon to heal. And even if it is, she should (raw) milk it, and you, for more.
2008-01-03 16:08:36
320.   underdog
I may have missed someone posting this earlier, but article on ESPN on Gonzo appeared today. Worth a read, though probably not worth much debate.

Choice parts:

>>Gonzalez seems stung by the perception in some quarters that he was a divisive influence in Los Angeles last season. One Southern California columnist wrote that he and Nomar Garciaparra "sniped" quietly behind the scenes about their lack of at-bats.

"I read the stuff about how I was upset over losing playing time," Gonzalez told "But I'd be shocked if any of the young guys said anything negative about me. I was the guy taking them to lunch and always telling them, 'Hey, I'm here for you guys if you need me.'

"I'm a 40-year-old veteran. I've been around. I'm not blind when I see a 23- or 24-year-old kid who comes up and has all the potential in the world. I understand I'm not the same player that I was when I was hitting 30-plus homers and driving in 100 runs in Arizona. But I still feel like I've got a lot left in the tank to prove something to people.">"The kids came up with some arrogance," said a person with knowledge of the Dodgers' situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "They've been told how great they are for so long, they think they're accomplished when they're not. But when things start to falter, you look for the veteran guys to steady it. When [Gonzalez's] playing time decreased, he started to become a little less of a team guy."<<

2008-01-03 16:09:06
321.   Jason in Canada
Hey Canuck,

I live in the lower mainland area near Vancouver.

I moved here because I married a great Canadian girl and Canada was much more welcoming to me coming here than the States were to her going there.

It actually worked out really good as I got a great job soon after I came that allowed me to work here until I received my residency last year.

I grew up in the San Fernando and Antelope Valley's in California, as well as 4 years in Virginia while in the U.S. Coast Guard.

That is my story!

How about you? Which part of Canada are you from? And how did you become a Dodger fan?

2008-01-03 16:12:15
322.   Kevin Lewis
I wish I lived in Canada
2008-01-03 16:13:40
323.   old dodger fan
321 Coast Guard in VA- Yorktown?
2008-01-03 16:15:53
324.   D4P
I wish I lived in Canada

Heck: I'd settle for dying in Canada.

Just kidding. I'm proud to be an Amurrican.

2008-01-03 16:19:50
325.   Jason in Canada
I was stationed in Portsmouth, Va.

There is a large Coast Guard base there with 6 Coast Guard Cutters, (I was on the C.G.C Tampa), a small boat station and a bunch of other units, buoy tenders, tug boats, smaller patrol boats.

2008-01-03 16:21:21
326.   old dodger fan
Iowa Caucus Trivia

Dems-In 1992 Tom Harkin won while Clinton got 2.8% of the votes.
In '88 Gephardt won. In '76 & '72 the winner was "Uncommitted". Muskie was 2nd in '72.

GOP-Dole won in '96 & '88 (he was 8th in '80). Bush beat Reagan in '80.

2008-01-03 16:22:33
327.   CanuckDodger
321 -- I was born and raised in New Westminster, attended Simon Fraser University, and now live in Coquitlam.

The Dodgers/Yankees 1977 World Series was the first baseball I ever saw on TV. I played baseball before, as a young kid, but for some reason I just never saw MLB baseball on TV before that. I don't know why, but I just fell in love with the Dodgers, and I instantly hated the Yankees.

2008-01-03 16:23:05
328.   Disabled List
If I had to live anywhere in Canada, it would definitely be Vancouver. What a city.

Montreal was great too, but too much snow.

2008-01-03 16:25:29
329.   old dodger fan
If I spoke French I think I would move to Montreal or Quebec City. They are both beautiful cities.
2008-01-03 16:26:45
330.   Jason in Canada

I work over off the Maryhill bypass now in Poco. How is that for a small world?

We could have a mini DT day if the bums ever come to Safeco...

2008-01-03 16:28:50
331.   El Lay Dave
327 I don't know why, but I just fell in love with the Dodgers, and I instantly hated the Yankees.

Because you inherently understand the natural and proper order of things.

2008-01-03 16:30:38
332.   CanuckDodger
328 -- Years ago Tommy Lasorda was in Vancouver (for some reason) and I remember him going on and on about how clean Vancouver is. Still generally true, but when I think of certain parts of Vancouver, like the East End, I really have to laugh at that.
2008-01-03 16:31:40
333.   El Lay Dave
320 It is this kind of writing that gets to me: When Jeff Kent chastised the youngsters in September for their inability to "get it," James Loney and Kemp fired back in the papers.

And where did Jeff Kent do his chastising? Oh yeah, to the press also.

2008-01-03 16:34:52
334.   Jason in Canada
Yeah Vancouver is a great city, but the headline of today's local paper talks about how the city is starting a program to give away crack pipes.

I'm sure the open drug use of the east end and Pigeon Park would shock just about anyone regardless of where they come from.

2008-01-03 16:38:35
335.   D4P
UBC is one of the 9 schools to which I applied for faculty positions. My main concern is that Vancouver looks like a very expensive place to live.
2008-01-03 16:38:48
336.   Gen3Blue
If we are going to talk about both nutrition and politics here, I have to mention my favorite conference----------------The Diet of Worms.
2008-01-03 16:40:17
337.   bhsportsguy
The main reason and probably only reason that "The Wonder Years" remains unavailable on DVD is securing the clearances or renegotiation of music rights. Generally, music rights are only negotiated for the "broadcast" viewings (over-the-air) of specific television episodes. Now, they could replace the music with generic music (which was done with the WKRP in Cincinati DVDs) but music is such central part of the show, I don't think it would work.
2008-01-03 16:41:01
338.   Humma Kavula
333 Up next on Penarol 24-7... we tie Penarol and Luis Gonzalez and Jeff Kent to poles. Separated by exactly the length of their legs, they will kick each other in the crotch for one solid hour. Who will succumb first? Will Kent and Gonzalez team up on Penarol, or will Gonzalez's and Kent's equal and opposite obnoxiousness cause them to take each other down? It's a very special episode of "Major League Baseball Kicks Penarol in the Crotch."
2008-01-03 16:43:47
339.   Jason in Canada
A 500 square foot condo in Vancouver starts at just below 400 grand. A small home in Vancouver is in the 700's. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous.

But there is the east end that Canuck and I mentioned before!

2008-01-03 16:44:49
340.   D4P
But there is the east end that Canuck and I mentioned before!

How far is that from the school? Isn't the school on the west end...?

2008-01-03 16:47:45
341.   Jason in Canada
Actually that show has already been done.

Possibly the funniest video of all time.

2008-01-03 16:47:58
342.   KevinP78
If we were all in Canada we could play a pick up game of "kick a free crack pipe and hit Penarol in the Crotch." You know how much fun that old pastime can be.
2008-01-03 16:52:05
343.   Jason in Canada
UBC is way over on the west side.

Far, far away.

2008-01-03 16:58:58
344.   Humma Kavula
341 We have much to learn from the Japanese.
2008-01-03 16:59:16
345.   CanuckDodger
340 -- UBC is located in VERY expensive territory, too pricey for academics just starting their paying careers, that's for sure. You would probably have to get housing in the Vancouver suburbs and have a long commute to work everyday.
2008-01-03 17:01:08
346.   KevinP78
341 Thank you. That was hillarious!!
2008-01-03 17:02:37
347.   ToyCannon
I remember Vancouver not being very car friendly but once we ditched the car and used public transportation it instantly became enjoyable.
Vancouver Island is where I wanted to retire but it is probably to pricey now. Maybe I'll buy a floating house in Bamfield.
2008-01-03 17:05:28
348.   Jason in Canada
346 No kidding...! That's what I was thinking. They know how to make people laugh.
2008-01-03 17:06:41
349.   D4P
You would probably have to get housing in the Vancouver suburbs and have a long commute to work everyday

That's what I'm afraid of. I like short commutes.

2008-01-03 17:11:58
350.   MJW101

Was DaVinci's Inquest actually filmed in Vancouver or some other Canadian city?

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-01-03 17:12:07
351.   ToyCannon
2008-01-03 17:16:36
352.   trainwreck
Ernesto Hoost is a champion kickboxer to anyone who does not know.
2008-01-03 17:20:30
353.   D4P
Did you watch Fedor's bout with Choi?
2008-01-03 17:20:46
354.   trainwreck
2008-01-03 17:22:14
355.   CanuckDodger
341 -- Vancouver, and frequently in the scuzzy East End I mentioned.
2008-01-03 17:23:13
356.   Eric Enders
Anybody whose name is an anagram for "Fredo" is pretty much destined to lose, I would think.
2008-01-03 17:24:49
357.   trainwreck
Well, I just watched it now. Pretty much what I expected.
2008-01-03 17:24:49
358.   Jason in Canada
There wasn't much to it I hear.

You know, a 7'2" Korean kick boxer... And the funny thing is people are angry Fedor is being fed a can. That is a one big can.

The video is all over the internet though if your interested in watching it.

2008-01-03 17:26:30
359.   D4P
It was kinda fun. As you may know, Fedor won by armbar, but had a previous armbar sunk pretty deep before Choi escaped. Fedor's face was badly bruised at the end.

All mixed martial artists lose, which is partly what makes this one (i.e. Fedor Emelianenko) so impressive. He's 27-1, with the lone loss coming from an illegal elbow strike that should have had the bout ruled a "No contest".

2008-01-03 17:27:27
360.   D4P
I don't think Choi should be deemed a "can" yet. He's too big and hasn't really shown whether he's good or bad.
2008-01-03 17:29:54
361.   Jason in Canada
Emelianenko Fedor is no man. He is a super bionic robot that pretends to be a man. He is easily cut and bruised though. The next version 2.0 will fix that though.
2008-01-03 17:33:20
362.   El Lay Dave
341 Hilarious, though I suspect my wife would term it "guy humor".
2008-01-03 17:33:21
363.   D4P
I always dread him getting cut and losing to a lesser mortal.

The great think about Fedor is that he seems like such a nice guy. Always polite and friendly and respectful.

2008-01-03 17:33:39
364.   Sam DC
I thought I'd read all of Ludlum's books, but apparently I missed The Bastardo Prospect.
2008-01-03 17:35:01
365.   Jason in Canada
The Japanese love their "Silent library" and "small fighter vs. huge giant" fights.
2008-01-03 17:38:49
366.   Sam DC
They are showing the caucusi on CSPAN and CSPAN2.

I'll reserve comment.

Still reserving . . .

2008-01-03 17:42:28
367.   Bob Timmermann
You know if you wanted to Latinize caucus for its plural it would have to be cauci.

Except caucus isn't a Latin word.

OED etymology:
Arose in New England: origin obscure.
Alleged to have been used in Boston U.S. before 1724; quotations go back to 1763. Already in 1774 Gordon (Hist. Amer. Rev.) could obtain no 'satisfactory account of the origin of the name'. Mr. Pickering, in 1816, as a mere guess, thought it 'not improbable that caucus might be a corruption of caulkers', the word "meetings" being understood'. For this, and the more detailed statement quoted in Webster, there is absolutely no evidence beyond the similarity of sound; and the word was actually in use before the date (1770) of the event mentioned in Webster. Dr. J. H. Trumbull (Proc. Amer. Philol. Assoc. 1872) has suggested possible derivation from an Algonkin word cau´-cau-as´u, which occurs in Capt. Smith's Virginia 23, as Caw-cawaassough 'one who advises, urges, encourages', from a vb. meaning primarily 'to talk to', hence 'to give counsel, advise, encourage', and 'to urge, promote, incite to action'. For such a derivation there is claimed the general suitability of the form and sense, and it is stated that Indian names were commonly taken by clubs and secret associations in New England; but there appears to be no direct evidence.]

2008-01-03 17:43:05
368.   Greg Brock
366 I'm actually enjoying it a lot, just listening to the various reasons for each candidate, and watching the candidates get winnowed down.

It's wonderfully anachronistic.

2008-01-03 17:45:21
369.   Kingmans Performance
Sam, I see children all over those rooms,
are they gonna be allowed to Caw-cawaassough too?
2008-01-03 17:46:22
370.   Eric Enders
367 reminds me that we really don't have enough people named "Pickering" in the world these days. O, that the 350-pound first baseman from Baltimore had actually made it.
2008-01-03 17:46:56
371.   Icaros
I've yet to see Fedor fight, but I think Anderson Silva makes an art form out of breaking another man's nose (a Martial Art form, I guess). Just beautiful.

He also seems very nice, which makes me like him even more.

2008-01-03 17:47:54
372.   Humma Kavula
370 we really don't have enough people named "Pickering" in the world

Just you wait, 'eric 'enders, just you wait...

2008-01-03 17:48:15
373.   wronghanded
I'm just waiting for a Fedor vs. Brock Lesner match-up. Once Lesner learns the MMA craft, that fight will be a true clash of the Titans.
2008-01-03 17:48:30
374.   Eric Enders
And one of these days I'm going to talk Bob into actually using the Dictionary of Record instead of the OED.

The Chicago Style Manual uses Webster's Third New International.
The National Spelling Bee uses Webster's Third New International.
Really, any self-respecting person should.

2008-01-03 17:48:42
375.   Jason in Canada
364 It's the one where Jason Bourne battles a left-handed Dodgers farmhand all over the inland empire for information on the location of the evil operative from the Basque region of Spain, Col. Juan Pierre.
2008-01-03 17:51:15
376.   wronghanded
I have to say though that the majority of Pride superstars that come into the UFC get handled. With the exception of Rampage, I have been disappointed with ex-Pride guys. Cro-Cop and Wanderlei used to be 2 of my favorites and are a combined 0-3 in UFC. Apparently the cage and world-class fighters do make a difference.
2008-01-03 17:57:14
377.   D4P
I don't consider "UFC vet vs. Pride vet fighting in octagon under UFC rules" to be a legitimate "UFC vs. Pride" comparison. It's too much of a "homefield advantage" for the UFC guys.

I will always think Pride was better.

2008-01-03 17:57:45
378.   Jason in Canada
376 I think there are many factors involved. There are so many rule differences between the two. I was shocked by Griffin V. Rua.

A lot of the Pride guys made their reputation on destroying the ex-UFC champs like Randleman, Kerr and Coleman.

I don't think Fedor doesn't experience the same fate though if he came over here.

2008-01-03 17:58:37
379.   popup
I want to let folks know that 50 bucks will be going to the American Red Cross as a result of sales of the 9/3/69 cd of Vin's great radio broadcast of the Met/Dodger game. Thanks go to John Miley who added that game to his catalog at my request, Andy Holden at Baseball Direct for being willing to forego some of his profits from the sale of the cd to benefit the Red Cross, to Jon for having such a great site, writing such a fine article about the broadcast on, and for having the blogad run past its pull date, and finally to all those who ordered the cd through Baseball Direct. Two more people to thank: Jerry Doggett and Vin, the best baseball broadcaster ever.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-01-03 18:07:07
380.   Jon Weisman
367 - But you know all my psuedo-Latin usage is all in fun, right?
2008-01-03 18:07:44
381.   Jon Weisman
379 - Thanks again, Stan.
2008-01-03 18:07:50
382.   wronghanded
378 I agree Fedor would make a Rampage-esque splash if he came over.

377 Why doesn't the UFC just start allowing knees to a downed opponent? It is certainly a factor in the world of MMA. If this rule were to be instated, I can promise that those boring 3 round wrestle-fests would end more quickly.

2008-01-03 18:08:36
383.   CanuckDodger
374 -- You're against the Oxford English Dictionary? The scholarship that goes into that dictionary is unparalled.
2008-01-03 18:09:53
384.   Humma Kavula
374 Webster's Third New International is a good dictionary, no doubt.

Allow me to make a plug for my New Oxford American Dictionary, which is a good single-volume dictionary and about one-third the price of the Webster's Third New International.

Also: if you are a person who enjoys Rule One violations... no dictionary shelf is complete without J.E. Lighter's Historical Dictionary of American Slang, or what you can get of it.

2008-01-03 18:10:06
385.   D4P
Why doesn't the UFC just start allowing knees to a downed opponent?

It isn't up to them. In order to be "legitimate", they allow themselves to be regulated and subject to a set of rules determined by some kind of athletic commission body.

2008-01-03 18:29:03
386.   Bluebleeder87
ESPN Article on Luis Gonzalez Gonzalez has a long-standing reputation as one of baseball's most congenial players and solid citizens. He's a charity and autograph machine who's media-friendly, generous to the clubhouse attendants and committed to running out every ground ball as if it mattered.

media friendly yes, but there is more than meets the eye. Full article on ESPN.Com []

2008-01-03 18:45:43
387.   overkill94
a thread dedicated to Pac-10 hoops and everyone's talking about...mixed martial arts and word origins?
2008-01-03 18:48:26
388.   trainwreck
I am watching Oregon State leading Arizona.
2008-01-03 18:51:45
389.   Bluebleeder87
just heard some Ross Porter "Real Sports Heroes" his voice is just Dodgers to me, I don't know if that makes any sense.
2008-01-03 18:55:25
390.   tjshere
This thread is hysterical! I've actually had tears running down my face. Humma, you are on a roll tonight, my man.
2008-01-03 18:57:51
391.   overkill94
388 Arizona has very little depth, so missing their leading scorer makes it really hard to compete. I was surprised they ended up only losing by 13 against Memphis. Luckily they only play ASU and Houston next week, so hopefully he can be fully healthy for the bay area swing.
2008-01-03 19:05:47
392.   popup
{381} Jon, you are certainly welcome. I would be interested in any comments from anyone who bought the cd. I have heard that game serveral times and I marvel at each listening just how good a broadcaster Vin is. He descibes what is happening on the field with precision, weaves the story of the Willie Davis hitting streak thoughout the broadcast with just the right touch, and then puts everything in proper perspective after letting the cheers of the crowd reach the radio audience when Willie extends the hitting streak and brings the Dodgers the victory in the bottom of the ninth.

I wish I knew the person who taped Vin's broadcasts from KTAR in Phoenix. I have a few Vin broadcasts in my collection and they are from KTAR or Armed Forces Radio. There must be some old reel to reel tapes in some attics in LA from Dodger fans who taped Vin's broadcasts. I hope they are discovered for all the world to hear.

Stan from Tacoma

2008-01-03 19:15:49
393.   Jason in Canada
Your right.

I say we hijack this thread back and start talking about the premier of "Celebrity Apprentice" which is starting tonight.

2008-01-03 19:26:33
394.   overkill94
393 Ugh, you guys are hopeless ;)
2008-01-03 19:29:24
395.   das411
370 - Walter Young?
2008-01-03 19:34:13
396.   tjshere
393 Will the celebrity apprentice be kicking Penarol in the crotch?
2008-01-03 19:40:37
397.   Andrew Shimmin
Somebody might wanna box out that midget.
2008-01-03 19:50:40
398.   trainwreck
Did Alfred Aboya just nail a three?
2008-01-03 19:51:03
399.   Bob Timmermann
Off the glass!
2008-01-03 19:52:41
400.   Bob Timmermann
Aboya was 0 for 1 in 3s on the year
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-01-03 19:56:01
401.   Andrew Shimmin
Moving screen guy is so reminiscent of a young Andrew Bogut.
2008-01-03 19:57:39
402.   Bob Timmermann
Moving screen guy was James Keefe, not Kevin Love.
2008-01-03 20:00:20
403.   Andrew Shimmin
Huh. UCLA has two big white guys who'll never play on Sundays. Or whatever day NBA games are on. Mbah A Moute should be playing every minute of every game.
2008-01-03 20:02:58
404.   Andrew Shimmin
If I were the coach, I'd make them play the triangle. I'm not sure what that means, but I know Mbah A Moute would be all three points.
2008-01-03 20:04:42
405.   trainwreck
Mbah a Moute needs to play in the post more and quit running around the perimeter.
2008-01-03 20:07:14
406.   Bob Timmermann
The catch phrase you are looking for is "play in the Association."
2008-01-03 20:11:05
407.   Andrew Shimmin
Mata's good, too. UCLA should go back to refusing to let freshmen play on the big team. If it was good enough for Lew Alcinder, then, um. I lost my train of thought.
2008-01-03 20:13:37
408.   Bob Timmermann
It's Mata-Real. Please respect the compound name.
2008-01-03 20:14:14
409.   Jon Weisman
Entertaining half.
2008-01-03 20:21:11
410.   Andrew Shimmin
That was an amusing shot. Mbah a Moute would have hit it.
2008-01-03 20:42:50
411.   Eric Enders
Stupid on-screen programming guide, telling me the Stanford-UCLA game would be shown here when it isn't.
2008-01-03 20:43:57
412.   Eric Enders
I will now be at least a week out of date on Lopez Twin hairstyles and Kevin Love five o'clock shadow length.
2008-01-03 20:44:41
413.   Andrew Shimmin
Bouncy-hair Lopez is having a tough night.
2008-01-03 21:00:43
414.   Andrew Shimmin
Stupid Pac 10 officials. . .
2008-01-03 21:01:37
415.   trainwreck
Russell Westbrook is good.
2008-01-03 21:01:53
416.   Andrew Shimmin
Stupid Pac-10 floor moppers. . .
2008-01-03 21:15:27
417.   Bob Timmermann
Time for me to throw out my "Biden/Dodd in '08" buttons.
2008-01-03 21:30:59
418.   Bob Timmermann
A good day for the University of California system against the private schools.
2008-01-03 21:34:57
419.   Dave G
Stanford's legit--great win for the Bruins. I have to ask--is there any Bruin fan who doesn't absolutely love watching this team's toughness and intensity? Even when they lose (rarely) they put in 100% effort. Meanwhile I have no doubt Stanford will be a dangerous tournament team in March.
2008-01-03 22:42:45
420.   Daniel Zappala
418 Elitism can be fun. Join our fight against pluralism.
2008-01-04 00:52:19
421.   unlazy4sports
373. For a preview of a Lesnar/Fedor matchup, look up Fedor/Randleman.
2008-01-04 05:45:20
422.   D4P
Yep. Fedor by armbar/kimura.
2008-01-04 07:08:23
423.   godvls
Did I miss all the comments on ASU actually winning a Pac 10 game? It didn't hurt that Oregon was 2-17 from 3 point range. James Harden is for real. He's the best ASU freshman since.....well, probably ever. Ike was great, but didn't have the overall game/impact that Harden has. Byron Scott could have been as good Harden had he needed to be. Scott was on such a talented team that he didn't need to be "the man".
2008-01-04 07:12:58
424.   D4P
It didn't hurt that Oregon was 2-17 from 3 point range

It hurt Oregon more than it hurt ASU. Oregon is no good this year.

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