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You know those hallowed days of stability for the Dodgers in the 1970s? They only came after a whole lot of testing, sifting, shifting and most of all, waiting.
The Dodgers went six seasons, from 1967 to 1972, without winning 90 games or any kind of pennant. In 1973, the Dodgers sped up to 95 victories, only to meet a bitter end. They led the National League West for most of the summer before exploding their tires at the finish:
Team 9/1 After Final Dodgers 83-53 12-13 95-66 Reds 81-55 18-8 99-63Key moments: No one ever talks about 1973, but this was one of the most miserable collapses in Dodger history. From August 31 through September 12, the Dodgers dropped nine consecutive games and 11 of 12 - needing only two weeks to turn a four-game lead into a five-game deficit. On September 16, the Reds' lead grew to 6 1/2 games. The Dodgers trimmed the margin back to 4 1/2 games in time for a three-game series with the Reds beginning September 21, but lost the first two, including an 11-9 defeat in which Sutton was KOed in a seven-run first inning. Cincinnati clinched September 24 - game 157.
But after that blip of Wrong Way - Severe Tire Damage, the team recovered in 1974 to win 102 games and the NL championship.
There was little wasted effort in the 1973-74 offseason. Only two key members were acquired from outside the organization - though both pickups (Jimmy Wynn and Mike Marshall) were huge. Three starting pitchers (Al Downing, Tommy John and Andy Messersmith) had been acquired earlier in the 1970s.
Beyond that, heading into 1974, the Dodgers recognized the value of their younger players on the rise and continued placing their faith in them, despite the disappointment of the previous year and question marks about their ability.
Of the eight regulars in the lineup, seven were homegrown and under the age of 30. Six were under the age of 28. Four were 25 or under. But none were rookies in 1974. They were the product of much earlier drafts; they were all given time to develop - even stumble - in previous years. Bill Buckner batted .275 with eight home runs and 17 walks in a full season as a first baseman/outfielder in 1973, but got a new shot at the starting lineup at age 24 the following year. In the middle of 1973, Steve Garvey was little more than a man without a position.
In fact, even in '74, not all of the young Dodgers were all that extraordinary. But together, they formed something grand - a pennant-winner for 1974 and the basis for NL titlists in 1977 and 1978 and finally, a World Series winner in 1981.
The 1974 roster was a model of prudence, a product of measured faith. The 1973 lineup had one player above the age of 30 - beloved, productive homegrown star named Willie Davis - and he was replaced. The trade of a veteran pitcher heading for the downside of his career, Claude Osteen, enabled that replacement, while opening the door for a relatively unproven pitcher, Doug Rau, to take his spot.
Even the bench was populated with kids: Tom Paciorek, Von Joshua, Lee Lacy, Rick Auerbach - all 27 and under. Manny Mota, at age 36 the team's oldest hitter, had 293 at-bats in 1973 but 57 the following year. In 1974, players who were at least 30 years old accounted for only 829 of the team's 5,557 at-bats: 15 percent. They pitched 34 percent of the team's innings.
The big moves were few but paid off huge; the rest of the team's composition was the result of a multiyear effort to find the best way to take advantage of some fortuitous drafting and stockpiling.
Los Angeles had to live without a pennant for what must have seemed like an eternity at the time. No one argues today that it wasn't worth it.
Here's how it breaks down, position-by-position:
Catcher: Joe Ferguson (born 9/19/46) was the No. 1 catcher in 1973, playing 122 games there, with Steve Yeager (11/24/48) backing him up, but in the Dodgers' NL championship year of '74 the two really shared the position, with Yeager catching in 93 games and Ferguson 82.
Always known for his defense, Yeager arrived in 1972 and showed a more promising bat than you probably remember (124 OPS+, with 100 being the league average, in 35 games), then played 54 games in '73 (91 OPS+). Ferguson had made his Dodger debut back in 1970, but mostly as a bit part until '73, when he hit 25 homers and walked 87 times on his way to a 135 OPS+ season. Ferguson's bat also started getting him playing time in the outfield.
In 1974, at age 25, Yeager had a .283 EQA (.260 being average) while Ferguson (27) was at .304. By comparison, Russell Martin was at .293 last season.
First base: Called up as a third baseman in 1970, Steve Garvey (12/22/48) moved across the diamond for good in 1973. His bat had been developing steadily, but it wasn't necessarily an obvious move. Here's how Steve Delsohn describes it in his oral history of the team, True Blue:
In 1972, when Garvey made a whopping 28 errors in only 85 games, a majority of them came on wild throws. Garvey believes he knows why, even though throwing problems are always a little strange and mysterious.
"I had always had a strong arm," Garvey said. "And them my freshman year at Michigan State, I separated my shoulder playing football. It was enough of a separation that I never threw quite the same again after that.
"But it may have been partly psychological, too. Because if I had to make a quick throw, if it was a quick play, boy, it would be on the money. Give me time and who knows where it would be going."
So in the fateful summer of 1973, how did he make the transition from a scatter-armed third baseman to a budding superstar playing first base?
That depends on who you ask. Garvey says (Walter) Alston simply decided to move him to first. Garvey's ex-wife, Cyndy, has said that she gave Alston the idea. Bill Buckner, the incumbent first baseman, says the suggestion to Alston came from him.
Bobby Valentine has yet another interpretation. He says fate intervened on Garvey's behalf.
"In 1973 Bill Buckner was playing first base for the Dodgers. That was rightfully so, because Buckner batted .300 wherever he went.
"Garvey was on the bench, because they finally decided he couldn't play third base. Then in June of '73 the trade deadline was approaching and the Dodgers were getting ready to trade Garvey. But Von Joshua, the left fielder, got injured. Manny Mota, the fourth outfielder, pulled a hamstring.
"So the next logical candidate was Garvey, because he had played some left field (10 games in the outfield in 1973, according to Baseball-Reference.com). But instead of putting Garvey in the outfield, Alston moved Buckner to left and put Garvey at first."
In '74, Garvey had 200 hits (including 21 homers) in 156 games. That was enough to win him the NL Most Valuable Player award, even though in reality he wasn't the most valuable player on the team. His OPS+ of 130 and EQA of .297 were both surpassed by someone who was also a more valuable defender, center fielder Wynn.
As far as Wins Above Replacement Player, a Baseball Prospectus statistic that measures "the number of wins this player contributed, above what a replacement level hitter, fielder, and pitcher would have done," Garvey was sixth on the Dodgers, behind Wynn, Ron Cey, Mike Marshall, Andy Messersmith and Davey Lopes. I point this out not to diminish anyone's fond memories of Garvey, but rather to underscore what the others contributed.
At any rate, the Dodgers found themselves in 1974 with a 25-year-old first baseman who was a genuine asset with the bat. (James Loney, however, has better statistics at a comparable age.)
Second base: Lopes (5/3/45) was a late bloomer. He made his major-league debut in 1972 at age 27, but became the full-time starter at second base the following season (.273 EQA, 36 stolen bases in 52 attempts). In many ways, Lopes would never stop improving despite the late start. He hit a career-high 28 homers at age 34, and remarkably at age 40, he stole 47 out of 51 bases.
In 1974, Lopes was only a second-year regular, but he was the second-oldest man in the regular lineup behind Wynn. Lopes posted an EQA of .288, stealing 59 bases in 77 tries. His on-base percentage was .350, and he hit 10 home runs.
Shortstop: Though only 25 himself when the '74 season began, Bill Russell (10/21/48) had been in the majors since 1969, playing no fewer than 81 games. In 1972, he became the first-string shortstop and had a .269 EQA, though he slumped to .242 in 1973. But in those days, batting averages of .272 and .265 surely seemed adequate. In fact, Russell got selected to the 1973 midseason All-Star team for the NL and even received a 10th-place vote for MVP.
Sure enough, Russell kept in his range with a .269 batting average in '74, and played in more games than even Garvey, while actually boosting his EQA to .262 (the highest it would be until 1982).
Third base: Cey (2/15/48) had 47 plate appearances combined in 1971-72 before playing in 152 games in 1973 (.275 EQA) and pushing Garvey to first base.
Cey had 15 homers and 80 RBI in 1973, then improved to 18 and 97 as a 26-year-old in '74. He really didn't explode as an offensive player until 1975, when he raised his EQA to .308.
Left field: Buckner (12/14/49) was 19 when he made his major-league debut in 1969. He started playing semi-regularly in 1971 and 1972, mostly in the outfield, before beginning 1973 as the regular first baseman.
But he slumped badly that year, falling from a .292 EQA in 1972 to .248 - in more conventional terms, from a .319 batting average to the aforementioned .275. When Garvey moved to first base that June, Buckner began fighting Mota for playing time in left. (Mota, who started 71 games in left in 1973, batted .314 in '73.)
Nevertheless, the Dodgers kept their faith in Buckner, and at age 24, he batted .314 (.287 EQA) while playing 137 games in left field, starting 128.
In two seasons with the Dodgers, Andre Ethier (4/10/82) has had EQAs of .282 and .267.
Center field: The 3-Dog, Davis, batted .285 with 16 homers, 17 steals, 29 doubles and nine triples in 1973, usually batting third in the order. And still, the Dodgers traded him.
Not only that, it was the only move outside the organization the Dodgers made to improve their lineup heading into the 1974 season - and yet, the 2008 team will have to be thrilled if it does as well with Andrew Jones. Acquired in a trade for 34-year-old Osteen (3.31 ERA/105 ERA+) and minor leaguer Dave Culpepper (who never made the bigs), Wynn (3/12/42) whacked 32 home runs, posting a .320 EQA.
The Toy Cannon was fifth in the NL with a 151 OPS+, trailing only Willie Stargell, Joe Morgan, Mike Schmidt and Reggie Smith. Wynn finished fifth in the MVP voting that year.
Right field: At age 27, Willie Crawford (9/7/46) had already worn a Dodger uniform in 10 different seasons. The Fremont High grad got his first at-bat nine days after his 18th birthday, in September 1964.
For someone who had been on the roster that long, it's almost surprising to think that the Dodgers didn't tire of him sooner. He didn't play more than 130 games until 1973, when he had a splendid .312 EQA in 145 games, starting 118 in right field.
Crawford had a similar if slightly less effective season in 1974. He had the same batting average both years - .295 - but his EQA dropped to a still-useful .298.
Starting pitchers: Don Sutton (4/2/45), who made 40 starts, had been with the team since 1966. It was a disappointing year for Sutton, whose ERA went from 2.42 (144 ERA+) in 1973 to 3.23 (106).
Sutton was eclipsed that year by two pitchers - one acquired after the 1971 season and one after the '72 campaign - each posting 2.59 ERAs (132 ERA+) in '74.
Messersmith (8/6/45) came from the California Angels with Ken McMullen in time for the 1973 season in a trade for Frank Robinson, Bill Singer, Mike Strahler, Billy Grabarkewitz and Valentine. Hitting his prime just at the right time for Los Angeles, Messersmith threw 249 2/3 innings in 1973 and 292 1/3 in '74.
A year before the Messersmith trade, John (5/22/43) came from the Chicago White Sox with Steve Huntz (who never played with Los Angeles) for Dick Allen, who had one and only one season with the Dodgers - a powerful one (151 OPS+ at age 29). A steady pitcher in '72 and '73, John pitched his final game for the Dodgers in '74 on July 17, before undergoing an operation you may have heard about.
Picking up the ball for John was Geoff Zahn (12/19/45). Zahn, like Lopes, was a better-late-than-never player. He had debuted in September 1973 shortly before his 28th birthday. In 1974, he joined the team in the bullpen in May. As a starting pitcher, from July on, he averaged 6 1/3 innings per start with a 1.85 ERA. You can't say much was expected of him, but boy, did he deliver.
Beginning the season in the rotation ahead of Zahn was Doug Rau (12/15/48). Rau entered 1974 with six career starts and 96 1/3 career innings, but he made 35 starts in '74, ERAing 3.72 (92 ERA+).
Finally, the Dodgers used Downing (6/28/41) for 16 starts. Downing won 20 games with a 2.68 ERA in 1971 for Los Angeles, but he threw only 98 1/3 innings for the team in 1974 (3.66 ERA/93 ERA+) Still, you could have done a lot worse at the back of your rotation than the young Rau and the older Downing.
Bullpen: If Wynn was the X factor for the 1974 Dodgers, Marshall (1/15/43) was the Y and Z. Acquired the previous December for longtime favorite Davis (one day before the Wynn trade), Marshall had a season for the ages, pitching 208 1/3 innings in relief with a 2.42 ERA. He won the NL Cy Young and finished third in the MVP voting.
Homegrown Charlie Hough (1/5/48) and Jim Brewer (11/17/37), who started his career with the Cubs but had been a Dodger since 1964, backed up Marshall in the bullpen. That year, of the 1,465 innings thrown by the Dodgers, nine pitchers combined for 1,441 of them. What a difference a few decades make.
* * *
I suppose it's worth reflecting that all that work generated no World Series titles until 1981. That's the way it goes, sometimes. But it's hard to imagine the Dodgers doing much better in building a team than they did during this period. The Dodgers don't have to win a World Series in 2008 to prove that an emphasis on talent, whatever the age, is the right path.
He didn't fare well.
Downing won 20 games with a 2.68 ERA in 1971 for Los Angeles, but he threw only 98 1/3 innings for the team in 1974
Plus he gave up one very famous home run that year.
That may be the most incredible stat line of all time. That's some closers careers these days.
By the way, I think it was in The Lords of Baseball that Harold Parrott said Walter O'Malley almost fired Alston in 1974 because the Dodgers had gone into a slump, and that he had Leo Durocher in mind to replace him. But the Dodgers turned it around. There was a story that the time was on the road and stayed up too late, playing cards or something, and Alston blistered them, and that straightened them out. I don't know, but it sounds plausible with a group of kids.
On August 19, the Cubs jumped out to a 7-2 lead after 3 1/2 innings. Then the Dodgers got five straight hits for three runs in the fifth as the Cubs went through four pitchers: Rick Reuschel, Burt Hooton, Dave LaRoche, and Jim Todd.
Garvey hit a 2-run homer in the 7th to tie the game at 7-7 and it went to extra innings.
In the 12th, Mike Marshall (who would pitch six innings in relief) led off with a single. Steve Yeager sacrificed him over to second. Then Rick Auerbach hit a squibber in front of the plate that catcher Steve Swisher ran out to field. He got Auerbach at first, but both Swisher and pitcher Oscar Zamora failed to get back to cover home and Marshall came around to score.
Marshall gave up two hits in the bottom of the 12th, but hung on. The Dodgers would sweep the series winning the next two games 18-8 (three home runs by Lopes) and 7-5 (a three-run homer by Crawford and a bunch of misplays by the Cubs helped) and the slump was gone.
My fondest memories of the Dodger are from when I was young. Maury was stealing bases and Sandy was a joy to watch pitch. The 70's Dodgers were favorites too though. Thanks for bringing them back to me, though I am sure you were too young to have made much of an impression on you. Really splendid writing, though I think all of us have come to expect that when we visit this site.
Stan from Tacoma
Like Jean Shepard says in his cameo in "A Christmas Story"
"Hey kid, the line ends here. It starts way back there."
That was Jean Shepard...?
I did not know that.
139 HR is 2007 would have placed them 12th of 16 teams in the NL.
They also had the fewest intentional walks issued in a season since the record was kept.
9
New center fielder coming off a down year.
Young 1st baseman who became a starter the year before.
Young 3rd baseman
Young LF
Kemp, Kent, and Furcal don't have any comp's to the 74 team and Mike Marshall was unique in history.
I also need to apologize to Mia and Nomar. Last year when it was suggested the Twins were wearing him out, I skoffed at the notion that people as wealthy and busy as Nomar and Mia would not have a flurry of people taking care of their twins for them. Based on a story I just read, I was wrong. They are actually trying to raise the twins by themselves and Mia said it is the hardest thing she's ever done.
They must not have been feared.
Some nights, that could be literally true!
Sorry, wrong subject of the sentence there.
The Dodger pitchers issued the fewest intentional walks. Just 9.
The Dodger hitters received the most intentional walks, 95, with Bill Russell leading the league with 25.
So the #6 and #7 guys must have gotten on base a lot.
Leo Cardenas led the NL in IBB in 1965 and 1966 and he was primarily an eighth place hitter.
In 1974, the Dodgers cleanup hitters had an OBP of .337. But #5 was .368, #6 was .358. Those were a mixture of Ferguson, Cey, and Crawford.
Russell had 28 unintentional walks and 25 IBBs.
But one big lesson emerges from this: Rebuilding is not pretty; it requires more patience than one expects and it takes unexpected turns. Seems like in the 70s, the Dodgers raised a lot of offensive prospects who didn't have obvious positions. The '74 and '77 lineups might not have been exactly what Campanis envisioned in '70. The point is not to get too attached to current impressions of our prospects.
Here's a little note from today's L.A. Times that shows us that it is not 1974 anymore.
"So when Hiroki Kuroda signed with the Dodgers two weeks later, he made sure to one-up his countryman, asking for eight first-class tickets, an interpreter for his family as well as English lessons for himself, a personal trainer who doubles as a masseuse and a moving allowance of $30,000."
http://tinyurl.com/3c9p6c
Until Andy Messersmith had an idea.
Makes sense. I always thought of Russel as the number two hitter where he got the majority of his at bats but I guess in 74 he batted 8th.
In 1974, the Dodgers 1-2-3 hitters were Lopes, Buckner, and Wynn.
Unsuprisingly, they led the league in runs scored.
Time to look at Al Campanis, lots of nice deals between 74 - 81.
Andy should have stayed a Dodger. He only had one more good year and was done at age 32. Does anyone remember him pitching for us in 1979? I sure don't.
If we continue to hold onto the youthful core of this team, there is every reason to believe that wew will be serious World Series contenders almost every year for the next decade. You younger fans who have never experienced Dodgers success will have more fun than you dreamed possible.
Here's a link to the cover of my all-time favorite issue of Sports Illustrated:
http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1974/0527.html
It features Jimmy Wynn on the cover. I believe the words spoken in that issue by Don Sutton of that '74 team will soon be applicable to this '08 team: "This is the culmination of something that's been coming for a long time."
Dr. Frank Jobe is probably the most influential doctor in the history of baseball.
But boy was losing Tommy John in mid-'74 a blow. He was 13-3 with a 2.59 ERA when he went down in July.
Although the Dodger pitching was outstanding in the 1974 Series, Tommy John starting in place of Al Downing might have been enough to make the difference.
P.S. My name is John and one of my good friends in the early '70s was named Tom, so together we were Tommy John.
Just in case Eric isn't busy or anything.
I was just too young to have awareness of the '74 Dodgers, but a few years later a friend of our family's gave me a Dodgers pennant from that year which had autographs printed onto it of all that team's players. I used to stare at it trying to memorize the names of the players ("Vic Dav..davali..lillo?") - some of whom I knew, some I knew nothing about until I looked them up in a sports almanac. The '78 Dodgers were the first team I really knew, and as said above, sported a few players from 74 that would go on to make names for themselves. But maybe because of that pennant, or because of what really did happen, I do look at that year, 1974, as the one that started the Dodgers road to respectability and stability for years to come. May it happen again.
I hope Vic Davalillo didn't have his name on a 1974 Dodgers pennant.
Stan from Tacoma
Lopes a jerk? I don't pretend to know the guy, but I did meet him once. He came to my high school in the late 70s as part of a one-day baseball camp. He took a few of us to the infield and offered tips about base stealing. He was funny and smart and didn't talk down to us. I don't recall thinking much about it one way or another, to be honest, but he seemed like a very decent guy. Obviously, it was a bit of a PR deal and maybe he was on some kind of good behavior. But, beyond that, I can't recall any incident involving Lopes that would warrant "jerk." Maybe I missed something... I dunno. He was always a pretty solid player.
On my part.
Tom Paciorek. Vic Davalillo, very easily confused. Ahem.
I do remember Von Joshua, for some reason, partially because his name seemed really odd to me as a kid. Poor guy was a part of the 1974 team, then left to return for the mediocre 1979 season.
Ps by the way TC has some great reads over on True Blue I especially liked the Winn/Morgan post, really nice.
What arrogance. The game has given Clemens unprecidentand millions while he demanded special Bonds like treatment.
Memo to Roger: Respect is earned not given.
"If I was tkinging this s tuff I should have a eye in the middle of my foreheadand pull tractors with my teeth." Anyone see any of the other users pull a truck.
But ToyCannon and Underdog are two of my favorite posters at this site who seem to sift data beyond my capacity, and it shows what a great forum this can be.
Ambigious about whether he will take a lie detector test.
Btw, The Simpsons rocked tonight - the Springfield primary, Ralph Wiggum wins as a write-in candidate. Spot on and timely, glad they saved that new one for the midst of both strike and primary season.
i just want to confess that i popped skittles like... skittles... it didn't help.
While I have no firsthand info about Lopes, I do think after his stint in Milwaukee as manager, he never got a fair shake to manage again. I also seem to recall that he wanted to come back to the Dodgers after his playing days and there was nothing for him.
I remember that thread. I think Canuck gave me a thrashing for suggesting such a terrible trade. We had Navarro and I felt the AA Martin was superflous.
The problem with actually posting opinions is that the written word never goes away. I've learned alot from DT folk in a brief amount of time.
In 2005, I made it a point to not watch or pay attention to the Jacksonville team. I wanted to be outside the mainstream.
A couple of other notes from the yearbook. The next page listed the Dodger Scouting Directory, headed by Al Campanis. There are 85 names, addresses and phone numbers. The 1969 ticket prices were on the following page - box $3.50, reserved $2.50, general $1.50, children g.a. $0.75. The U.S. minimum wage in 1969 was $1.60.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/best-outfield-arms-of-2007/
>>Andre Ethier, right there in the middle of the northwest quadrant, is a curious case as he is very good at throwing out batters, but they still run wild on him. Runners should know better, since he was also very good, albeit in left field, in 2006. Perhaps this past season they figured they could run on a mere "left fielder." I expect his hold rate to rise next year (assuming he gets playing time, either in LA or elsewhere).
Ethier's opposite number is Andruw Jones, who sits alone out in the middle of the southeast quadrant. Andruw's Hold+ of 126 is among the very best in 2007, while he only killed about half of the expected number. Hmmm, is Andruw coasting on his reputation? Jones was the top throwing center fielder in 2005, but slipped to about average in 2006, with a poor Kill+ and average Hold+.<<
The first one I will review is options.
Here is Rob Neyer's explanation of options from ESPN.com
"Options"
"When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons."
"When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers."
Here is the "option" status for the most likely bubble players on the Dodgers 40-man roster.
Out of options (3)
LHP Hong-Chih Kuo
IF Wilson Valdez
OF Delwyn Young
One option left (5)
RHP Yhency Brazoban
RHP D.J. Houlton
LHP Greg Miller
LHP Eric Stults
3B Andy LaRoche
Two options left (3)
RHP Eric Hull
IF Tony Abreu
OF Jason Repko
Three options left (9)
RHP Mario Alvarez
RHP James McDonald
RHP Jonathan Meloan
RHP Justin Orenduff
RHP Ramon Troncoso
RHP Cory Wade
C Lucas May
IF Chin-Lung Hu
OF Xavier Paul
Both Meloan and Hu made their MLB debuts in September but since they spent their time on active roster after they were added to the 40-man roster, they did not use their first option last season.
The other thing that stands out to me is that I didn't think Soriano would/could do well with the switch. Boy was I wrong.
2. Can someone explain to me how a player is "sold" to a Korean team? I assume the player has to consent. Does he agree to a contract with Kia first? When the contract is complete is he free to return to the US as a free agent? Has this happened before?
Thanks for the update on the option info.
Players have had contracts sold to teams outside the U.S., usually Japan or Mexico, but on occasions Taiwan or Korea.
The player does have to give consent. Kevin Millar, most famously, refused to go to Japan before the 2003 season. He said at the time that it would be more prudent to stay in the U.S. given the troubled international situation.
Actually, he just ended up signing with the Red Sox.
Does anyone think he might have filed the suit to avoid testifying before Congress using the, "I can't talk about pending litigation" defense?
You even lobbed in a Juan Pierre bomb and it apparently failed to detonate.
I think everyone has Pierre Fatigue. It's an actual condition listed in the DSM-IV-R
83 What time is this chat? How do you ask questions? I wonder how Ned would respond to someone (or someones) asking about benching Juan Pierre instead of playing LF. I doubt Ned would answer the question, but maybe he'd get all defensive about it.
84 What does DSM-IV-R stand for?
Actually, it's going by DSM-IV-TR now
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/43483668
82 after watching Clemens last night...
if that isn't the response of a guilty person, I don't know what is...
Dwyre in the Times and Dan Patrick on the radio put the whole matter in perspective...great jobs on their parts...
The LL team I coached that year won their pennant too! As much as I love the Dodgers I have to admit that I cherish the LL pennant more along with the baseball all my kids signed.
http://weblogs.variety.com/season_pass/
• Mike Marshall's Game 2 save where, after allowing the inherited runners to score to cut the lead to one, he picked off the "designated runner" Herb Washington and struck out two to end it.
• Joe Ferguson stepping in front of elbow injury plagued Jimmy Wynn in RCF to field Reggie Jackson's fly ball and fire a strike to Steve Yeager to gun down Sal Bando at the plate. (Can't believe this wasn't mentioned yet.)
• Billy Buckner thrown out at 3rd leading off the 8th inning of Game 5, down one run (and three games to one), trying to stretch a double (or was it a single and an error?). At was at this moment that I realized that the Dodgers could well not come back in this game or in this series.
Born after 1974, it was good to read this nice history lesson. I like how Jon pointed out the parallels between '74 and today.
I hope all of you had a great Christmas and New Years, and any other holidays you were a part of. Good to be back on DT.
Boy, I don't know about you, but this offseason is going by really quickly.
To avoid writing ancillary posts, I had two things to comment on re: 2008 in general.
1) I hope the WGA and the Production Companies reach a settlement very soon. I miss first-run network TV so much.
2) Housing prices have really fallen since 2005. I still rent, but would now be a time to purchase a home?
As you should.
(1) don't bet on it settling any time soon unless the writers cave
(2)economic surveys (here in the So Cal area) indicate the housing market should bottom out in spring 2009...make of that what you will...
it may not drop alot over the next year to year and a half...and no one knows how fast it will rise thereafter...
In the interest of generating more posts, I need to point out that two lingering questions are remaining from the above posts. (1) What is the evidence that Lopes is a jerk? I've heard he was firey, but a jerk? (2) Who of the fabled infield was rude to the fantasy campers? Or is gossip a rules violation? OK. I guess that's more than two questions. Who said I could count?
and it doesn't depend on the whim of stockholders or CEOs, and doesn't lose value because the buying public finds something else...
But my main advice would be to calculate all the ancillary costs of owning a house - maintenance, property taxes and such - and then double them. It's always more than you think. The sticker shock of buying was one thing, but it's the maintenance costs that just are the backbreakers.
If you're buying a condo, that's easier to get used to.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/amwX
2. If the Dodgers had traded Garvey in 1973 like the story suggests almost happened, would the team have been just as succesfull with an infield of Buckner/Lopes/Russel/Cey and an outfield of Crawford/Wynn/Ferguson/Paciorek?
3. Does anyone remember all the diving catches that Buckner made in 74 or is my memory playing games?
Joe Ferguson was a player I never fully appreciated until I read the Bill James Almanac. My memory tells me that Paciorek was considered one of the best of the prospects but upon reveiwing his stats and age I'm not sure that was the case.
When everyone is selling, buy. When everyone is buying, buy more.
Howard's right. If you're in it for the long or relatively long haul, its always a good time to buy.
If you're not, though, I'm going to beg to differ with you, Jon. This could be a fairly crummy time to buy a house if the idea of owing more than the house is worth in the next couple of years is any sort of concern. I just don't think the full weight of the mortgage crisis on home values has hit yet. By a long shot.
Also, on the condo thing, the constant escalation of HOA dues was one of the reasons I sold my (vacation) condo.
Thank you all very much for your advice. Indeed, my rent has gone up (on a month to month lease) in each of the last two years. Investing in a new home, I guess right now a condo, will eventually pay dividends.
There's no way I can afford to buy a home in Santa Barbara area right now, so I'd either settle for Carpinteria or Ventura.
Then I can realize my dream of having the ultimate game room.
Lawyer, but don't practice.
The tenants paid my law school tuition.
I tend to think the people who are in foreclosure would disagree with you but hey it was only their money and their lives.
You can't make bad decisions; it's never that easy.
If A-Rod were available would you wait a year to see if the price drops?
When would be a good time to invest in Juan Pierre?
and if you say they were given a loan they could not afford, the borrower does have some culpability wehen applying for and/or accepting a loan...
I just wanted to satisfy my curiosity, more than anything.
Head on down to the next UCLA/Anderson School forecast. But the next one won't be until April.
TSP:You're driving the '10 Rays World Series Bandwagon; can you give me an early prediction on the Rays opponent and the World Series MVP?
JC:When I first made that prediction last spring, I had them beating the Dodgers. Let's go with B.J. Upton as World Series MVP.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2nc2za
I wouldn't worry about it. You'll find good stuff whenever you're ready. It's impossible to time the market, so why bother to try? It's not the time that matters; it's the deal.
Is there a bad time for Billy Beane to choose a player? Is there a good time for Ned?
As it turns out: now we have a kid and I am glad we are settled and living in a house. Will we be upside-down this time next year? Possibly, and that's not great news, but if it happens it happens and it will fix itself over the next five years -- we'll just stay in the house and raise our family.
And if there's a run on the bank or the S&L, George and Mary Bailey will offer up their wedding trousseau to help you out through the bad times.
My mothers parents lived in a house just one block from Glendale High. He paid rent for about 40 years and could have bought the house easily in the early 60's but my grandmother was as afraid of a mortgage as you were. It was not a good decision.
Eventually this did work itself out; we only paid the minimum on that mortgage and were able to put together enough to buy another house in 1998, when the market was starting to recover into this now-ending boom, but just starting.
The killer for new home buyers is the property tax, with the price you paid as the basis. Ouch every December and April.
111 Every year, when I fill out Schedule A, I became less and less fearful about the mortgage. (Plus, with a traditional fixed-rate loan, the minimum mortgage payment never rises, unlike the rent.)
My brothers and I pay a total of $960 per year in property tax on my late father's home!
Viva Proposition 13!
I can't think of Proposition 13 without violating Rule 13.
When Prop 13 passed I got laid off my county job. I'm still unemployed.
Hey, after 30 years, I think you'll find something.
Are there no workhouses?
I'm busy every day praying for the soul of Howard Jarvis.
Was it the impetus for you to leverage your way to the good life? Losing ones job has been quite beneficial to a few of my friends. Freedom to soar or sink, sounds like you soared.
Bah, humbug!
Prop 13 is a strange, terrible and wonderful thing, all at once.
The job I lost was working for the county assessor, raising everyone's taxes by four or five hundred percent. In that time and place it was fairly easy to see what was happening, so I'd already started on the leveraging.
Actually they offered me a demotion which I refused. Morally, it was the only thing to do.
Sorry, but this is the Getting Hit On The Head Lessons Universe. Microsoft Was Founded When Bill Gates Was In Junior High is in Universe 12.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't get to live in the house with the low property tax and I can't sell it either. And my brothers and I really wanted to sell it two years ago.
Now by the time we get to sell it, it will likely be dilapidated and occupied by hobos.
Estate issue.
I'm here for an engineering conference. I know less than nothing about engineering.
But I am staying at a Holiday Inn tonight.
And not just any Holiday Inn, but a Holiday Inn Select...
Have at it people:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/700hoboes/pool/
My first game at Dodger Stadium was "Fan Appreciation Day" at the end of the 1972 season. The Dodgers were within 2 to 3 games of the Giants in the last series of the regular season but they were unable to pull it off.
I remember Steve Garvey being the WORST player on the Dodgers at that time and just shuddering everytime a ball was ever hit to him at Third base.
Later when he was moved to first base and he eventually got a reputation as a solid defensive First baseman, I gained a prejudice against First basemen that I've held to this day: as an adolescent I thought that if someone as clumsy as Steve Garvey could win a Gold Glove at First Base, then anyone can play Firstbase…
Vagabond Kelly is just not a good TV show title.
Indeed, some things need clearing up in my head:
The 4 players with 30HRs team was 1977 or 1978 ?
And the 4 were: Cey, Baker, Garvey and Reggie (??)
In those years between WS appearances, there was alot of stability but there were also lots of important trades - there was a complete turnover in the OF(Dusty, Reggie) and the important addition of Burt Hooten…
(or Hurt Booten as he was known in my family… for no logical reason…)
(and didn't he pitch a no hitter, if my memory serves me right ?)
Was it the same rotation in both 77 and 78?:
Sutton
Hooten
Tommy John
Doug Rau
R Rhoden
Doug Rau was quite a pitcher and great things were expected from him but his career ended early - what was his injury?
Also I get mixed up between the 1981 WS team and the 1977/78 teams. Rick Rhoden was in the 77/78 rotation, but not the 81 rotation if I remember correctly (?) When was he traded to Pittsburgh?
Was Rick Monday only on the 81 team , but not the 77/78 teams…
(I believe this was covered here at some point during the last year - )
And lots of other questions…
It would take a long time to explain. You can read the Wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)
The whole thing is so contentious 30 years after the fact that it's just as authoritative as anything else you would encounter.
http://tinyurl.com/2ff7uu
Besides being unpleasant to listen to, the language is NSFW.
I'm guessing sort of a "zzzzooop" with towel-muted screams of pain in the background?
Getting into the housing market was the best thing I've ever done. I bought a condo in 1993 when I thought the market had bottomed from the 1989 crash. I was underwater for 6-7 years, but I was getting a good tax adjustment and was paying only a little more than what I was paying rent on earlier. Then in 2001 prices started going up a bit and I was able to make a profit on the condo and put it into a house.
I love my house. I love having a front and back yard. I love having a fireplace (first one I've ever had). I love having a dining room rather than a dining area. My mortgage is at least a third less than current rental prices.
I will admit I got incredibly lucky by buying at pretty much the bottom of the market just before it exploded. But I'm not looking to try to move up to a bigger one. This may be the house I die in.
Marty: $5,000 is a lot of money.
Howard: Yeah, here on this blog it seems like a lot. But I tell you, if you was to make a real strike, you couldn't be dragged away. Not even the threat of miserable death would keep you from trying to add 10,000 more. Ten, you'd want to get twenty-five; twenty-five you'd want to get fifty; fifty, a hundred. Like roulette. One more turn, you know. Always one more.
Besides the amazing performance by DDL, the soundtrack was intense. It had me at the edge of my chair throughout the whole movie.
>> Dodger Stadium is the only current MLB park (excluding the most recently-built parks) that has never changed its capacity. It has always held 56,000 fans, due to a conditional-use permit limiting its capacity. Every time the Dodgers add seats, they always remove an equal number of seats in the upper deck or in the pavilion to keep the capacity the same. <<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodger_Stadium
The Dodgers have a conditional use permit from the City of L.A. for Dodger Stadium that caps the seating at 56,000 per game in order to limit the number of cars that come in to the stadium.
Actually, for some entirely inexplicable reason, the now-quite-obvious reference in 149 completely escaped me. Apparently I need more waah; can I try it again?
I hope I'm wrong, but despite what has happened since the end of the season I still suspect the 3rd base job is Nomar's to lose. Combine LaRoche's remaining option with the fact that he is notorious for being a slow starter and I foresee him starting the season at Las Vegas while Nomar is giving every chance to fail.
1). What chance do you see for Clayton Kershaw to crack the rotation before the end of the season?
2). What are your thoughts on Jason Schmidt staying healthy enough to make an impact in 2008?
3). Tommy John's love for the game and his willingness to allow Dr. Frank Jobe to experiment with elbow surgery impacted the careers of countless ballplayers. No question about it, T.J. belongs in the Hall of Fame.
4). What are the chances of the Dodgers signing Rafael Furcal to a contract extension sometime during this year?
5).Can you please fill us in on Xavier Paul?
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=la
That honor goes to Rickey Henderson.
>> "I'm preparing myself for whatever. I want to be flexible and agile if I'm asked to play other positions besides third base. I always prepare myself to do whatever's asked of me. Right now it's third base. But I've talked to Torre and he loves the fact, being in the National League, that I can play other positions. I don't think that's a sign that I won't be playing third base. We've just seen before how things change and I want to be flexible." <<
http://tinyurl.com/25f3xa
Joe McGinnity didn't need any fancy arm surgery.
Actually, there's a few other schools I'd like to see that provision extended to. But let's just keep it at OSU this time, and maybe next year we'll actually have an interesting title game.
So we may be in the minority but we are an army of two.
Just because Ricky gave us some at bats doesn't mean he should be part of the discussion. What player, played for both teams and actually contributed to both teams success. Tommy John meets the criteria for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Rickey or Brown do not.
Of course Boom Boom Betemit will make all this a moot point as soon as Arod goes down with a season ending injury in May.
And note, by the way, that John's earliest opportunity to become a free agent was in 1978. He was 35 years old and had been a major leaguer for 15 years. He gave the Dodgers about 700 innings after the surgery. Did he really not earn the right by that time to choose where he should play?
Look at how the Dodgers treated Fernando and so many other pitchers. Burned out their arms and then cut them. Loyalty can go both ways, and it's best not to think too hard about it when neither side keeps up their end.
Bill Skowron
Jay Johnstone
Is anyone else absolutely disgusted by what was said and heard and that tape?
Roger Clemens should be ashamed of himself as a human being. It was PATHETIC.
The Clemens tape is the main topic of discussion on Bronx Banter.
True words, but it still gave me great pleasure to see us beat him in 81.
Takeshi Saito, Joe Beimel, Rudy Seanez, Aaron Sele, Olmedo Saenz, Jose Lima and Wilson Alvarez are all examples of recent non-roster invitees to spring training who became members of the team.
There are two types of non-roster invitees, one group are minor leaguers that are not on the 40-man roster but the team wants to see them against better competition and also allow the major league coaching staff an oppurtunity to see and instruct them. As of today, there is no announcement of any minor leaguers being invited to spring training, possibly because there are so many on the 40-man roster that the team already wants to see. However, you could still see a player like Blake Dewitt or even Clayton Kershaw make an appearance or two before being reassigned to minor league camp.
The second group is where the aforementioned list of players came from, those being veteran minor league free agents and major league free agents who could not get a MLB contract. They are usually signed to a "split" contract, that pays them a higher salary for anytime they spend on the active 25-man roster and a lower amount if they are playing in the minors. Sometimes these split contracts have time restrictions that allows the player to leave, sometimes even during spring training, if they are not in the team's plans for the season.
Currently the Dodgers have 14 players that fall into this group, the majority being pitchers. Odds are that one of those players will make the team at some point this season.
"Earlier today, James Loney visited Mattel Children's Hospital and spent some time with the young patients there. He was in town for the Rose Parade and asked if he could go back to the hospital again, having visited it earlier this year, so it's great to see our young players getting involved in the community on their own."
I like him better every day.
208
Of course your right, I just wanted to write Boom Boom Betemit one more time.
That's what I was going for when I originally nominated Tommy John.
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/primaries08/
If I remember correctly, TJohn left the Dodgers in 1979 and after his stunning performance in the 78 Wseries, Bob Welch was ready for the rotation so the LAD saw less need to resign TJ.
(Do i have my chronology right ???)
New post up top.
Let me add another name that should be obvious: Al Downing. Gentleman Al was a star with the Yankees and then a star with the Dodgers.
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