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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Homer Sapiens
2008-01-14 14:22
by Jon Weisman

Pitchers are human too - which means, sometimes they can even show us some power at the plate. This chart lists every homer hit by a Los Angeles Dodger pitcher, according to Some of these ring a bell you could hear from here to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, but others muster not even a wee little ting.

Some quick notes:

  • The two Dodger pitcher home runs last year came from their injury-plagued starters, Jason Schmidt and Hong-Chih Kuo.

  • Five Dodger pitchers homered in 2002, including Odalis Perez in a 1-0 victory.

  • Guillermo Mota was the last Dodger reliever to homer.

  • Ramon Martinez II ended up outhomering Ramon Martinez I as Dodgers, 2-1.

  • Bob Welch also homered in a 1-0 victory, over the Reds and Mario Soto. It was the only extra-base hit of the game.

  • Rick Sutcliffe's 1979 homer was one of seven the Dodgers hit that night.

  • Rick Rhoden was the first power-hitting Dodger pitcher of my days as an active fan. He hit three in 1977. But of course, that was just a precursor to Fernando. This link will show you the career Dodger homer leaders since 1958.

  • Comments (225)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-01-14 14:30:50
    1.   cargill06
    i think they were playing the cubs, but darren driefort has to hit the furthest HR by a dodger pitcher
    2008-01-14 14:39:56
    2.   SG6
    Could Dreifort have been our Rick Ankeil*
    2008-01-14 14:41:52
    3.   Humma Kavula
    8/14/62 -- Johnny Podres becomes the ultimate bad-luck pitcher?

    8 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs (both earned), one walk, four Ks. Oh, and hits a home run. And loses, 2-1.

    2008-01-14 14:43:37
    4.   silverwidow
    RHP Eduardo Sierra was signed to a minor league deal (no spring training invite). (D. Leung)
    2008-01-14 14:45:43
    5.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    I guess my recollection of Orel being a good hitter doesn't mean he hit any homers...

    Hideo Nomo was the prototypical home-run hitting pitcher: every time he swings and misses, it looked like he was a fourth grader at the plate. But then he connects, still looking a little off, but he hits it a long way...

    2008-01-14 14:46:12
    6.   Humma Kavula
    Even worse -- July 6, '77:

    Rick Rhoden pitches 10 innings, 7 hits, 1 run (earned), one walk, 6 Ks, one HR allowed, one HR hit.

    The Dodgers lose, 2-1, on a 14th inning HR by Jose Cruz the Elder.

    2008-01-14 14:46:31
    7.   paranoidandroid
    Having come from Chicago, Sutcliffe was the most powerful hitting pitcher I saw. He hit a homer in a playoff game that left the stadium, a 13-0 complete game victory in 1984.

    Kerry Wood hit one in 2003 in game 7. Not that it mattered in the outcome.

    Maddux was always dangerous with the bat too, but not much power. Zambrano can hit them out.

    2008-01-14 14:46:40
    8.   D4P
    I guess my recollection of Orel being a good hitter doesn't mean he hit any homers

    Hard to hit homers on swinging bunt choppers over third base.

    2008-01-14 14:47:00
    9.   Jon Weisman
    Ken Gurnick reads Baseball Prospectus:

    Also, Gurnick writes, "The likely replacement for Valdez as the insurance policy (for Abreu and Hu) is non-roster invitee Angel Chavez, who was originally signed by the Giants and then was in the Yankees' farm system, giving him ties to both general manager Ned Colletti and new manager Joe Torre.

    Chavez is 26. Here are his numbers.

    2008-01-14 14:50:14
    10.   paranoidandroid
    Orel hit a few. He was a good hitter. For a pitcher that is.

    Penny's breakout year last year with the bat took me by surprise. I simply don't remember that being part of his game.

    Broxton should be the next relief pitcher to hit a homer for the Dodgers, should he ever get to bat.

    2008-01-14 14:50:27
    11.   Eric Enders
    I remember Dreifort's 2 HR game very well. They were absolutely crushed, especially the second one. Other memorable ones for me are Kuo's, and Guillermo Mota's because I was in attendance at that game at Coors Field.
    2008-01-14 14:51:25
    12.   Eric Enders
    Mota's was during a day game at Coors and the Dodgers were already winning in a blowout.
    2008-01-14 14:52:04
    13.   Jon Weisman
    9 - Oops - left the last line off:

    2008-01-14 14:53:17
    14.   Marty
    I always thought Dreifort could've been a great hitter. I remember watching him in the college world series just crushing the ball.
    2008-01-14 14:55:35
    15.   summer55
    I am new to the blog, Dodger fan since about 1954 or so. I think they forgot the best hitter/pitcher of all time for the Dodgers. Don Newcombe hit around 15 and life time in the .270s. He was used many times as a pinch hitter, I think.
    2008-01-14 14:57:07
    16.   Humma Kavula
    Has Rich Donnelly landed anywhere?
    -- Charles V., Las Vegas

    Donnelly, the Dodgers' third-base coach the last two years, has been hired by the Pittsburgh Pirates to serve as a Minor League supervisor.

    As if the Pirates didn't have enough trouble scoring runs.

    2008-01-14 14:58:19
    17.   Eric Enders
    The problem with Dreifort was that he was the Dave Kingman of pitchers. Tons of strikeouts, no walks, and the occasional homer. He was sort of the polar opposite of 2007 Brad Penny.
    2008-01-14 15:00:09
    18.   Jon Weisman
    15 - My list just has homers hit in Los Angeles.
    2008-01-14 15:01:56
    19.   kinbote
    9 I can't say I have any baseball recollection of Angel Chavez. Maybe he'll help us keep the Panamanian pipeline going now that Saenz is elsewhere.
    2008-01-14 15:03:25
    20.   Eric Enders
    Newcombe isn't on the list because he never homered for the Los Angeles Dodgers. He was, however, a heck of a hitter. He appeared as either a pinch hitter or pinch runner a total of 108 times. He wasn't the world's greatest pinch hitter, however, going only .226/.388/.264 with no homers in 67 PAs. (Those stats only cover the latter part of his career, however.)
    2008-01-14 15:03:56
    21.   cargill06
    wish i could remember odalis' HR becuase i always wanted to puke when he would give up a long ball and throw his hands up in the air after contact. wonder what his reaction was to being on the other side of the gopher ball
    2008-01-14 15:05:39
    22.   Eric Stephen
    10 Orel hit a few

    Hershiser had zero lifetime HR.

    The list linked above is for LA Dodgers only. But, wow, I looked up Newcombe, and he had an amazing 67 PA as a PH in just the last 5 years of his career (1956 is the first season of full game by game data).

    2008-01-14 15:06:12
    23.   Eric Stephen
    I'm really slow.
    2008-01-14 15:06:17
    24.   regfairfield
    Don Drysdale held the record for fastest L.A. Dodger to five home runs until Kemp and Marlon Anderson passed him in 2006.
    2008-01-14 15:07:06
    25.   El Lay Dave
    20 Newcombe career: .271 / .338 / .367 / 85 OPS+. 15 HRs, 11 of those as a Brooklyn Dodger.
    2008-01-14 15:10:33
    26.   Jason in Canada
    I saw Hideo hit his on 4-28-98. It was the only time I went to a dodger game by myself.

    He pitched a heck of a game to if I remember right.

    I think he came out for a curtain call after the homer.

    2008-01-14 15:10:37
    27.   Eric Enders
    Odalis' HR was very memorable because it made him one of a very small number of pitchers (maybe 5?) who have ever homered, pitched a shutout, and won the game 1-0.

    (As I now realize Jon noted above.)

    2008-01-14 15:12:38
    28.   ToyCannon
    That is almost as amazing as his 1965 offensive season. Not having been around during that season I remember the 1st time I did a VORP check at BP and found that the Big D had the 3rd highest VORP on the team in only 138 plate appearances. Mind boggling.
    2008-01-14 15:13:29
    29.   Eric Enders
    I believe Drysdale and Newcombe still hold the NL single-season record for homers by a pitcher (7), although thin-air Mike Hampton tied them. Which is weird because Hampton, although always a tremendous hitting pitcher, was more of a hitter for average. He didn't hit for power except that one year.
    2008-01-14 15:15:39
    30.   D4P
    Again with the bearing down.

    Dodgers scouts report that Kuroda has the kind of competitiveness that's comparable to current closer Takashi Saito -- that they both bear down in tough situations.

    2008-01-14 15:17:14
    31.   Eric Enders
    Also, and I guess people maybe know this already, but the best batting average on the 1955 world championship team belonged to Newcombe, and the best average on the 1965 world championship team belonged to Drysdale. In fact, Drysdale was the best offensive player on that team by a significant margin.

    If you ever find yourself playing Strat-O-Matic with the 1965 Dodgers, make sure that when Drysdale isn't pitching, you bat him cleanup and play him at first base. Trust me, it works.

    2008-01-14 15:19:01
    32.   Eric Stephen
    I knew the game wasn't 1-0, but I immediately thought of Rick Wise. He had the greatest individual day in MLB history on 6/23/71:

    -Hit 2 HR
    -Drove in 3 runs (Roger Freed selfishly had another RBI!)
    -Oh yeah, pitched a no-hitter

    2008-01-14 15:19:18
    33.   El Lay Dave
    Orel is the LA Dodger career leader among pitchers for doubles, 26, besting Drysdale by one. His .240 OBP is second to Sutcliffe (.246), if PAs are restricted to 100 or more.
    2008-01-14 15:22:33
    34.   ToyCannon
    Not often you can have the greatest day in MLB history and also be the bad player in one of the worse trades in ML history.
    2008-01-14 15:23:34
    35.   El Lay Dave
    31 When did Strat-O-Matic start customizing the pitcher's hitting cards? When I played in the 80s, it was still a generic pitcher's batting card, I think.
    2008-01-14 15:24:41
    36.   Eric Enders
    FTOG's brief Dodger career consisted of a .333/.385/.417 line, but no homers.
    2008-01-14 15:25:14
    37.   Gen3Blue
    I was thinking Drieffort maybe should have been a hitter, but then I realized it wasn't just his arm that fell off--it was every thing.

    I remember watching Drysdale hit. It is strange to think, but he may have been wasted as a pitcher. Of course, good pitchers are hard to find.

    2008-01-14 15:27:48
    38.   Jacob L
    Well, I was in the park for Schmidt's homer on Opening Day last year, and for Odalis' in 2002. I also, FWIW (nothing), have Rick Sutcliffe's last autograph as a Dodger. Rick Rhoden is a heck of a golfer, though I'm not sure if he relies on the long ball.
    2008-01-14 15:28:56
    39.   Eric Enders
    35 It's a generic card, but it's a #8, which is the best generic card there is. Those #8 pitchers are like genuine middle-of-the-order hitters. (Especially when contrasted with the rest of the 1965 Dodgers lineup. I mean, a starting third baseman with a 38 OPS+? Really?)
    2008-01-14 15:29:46
    40.   ToyCannon
    From Jon's list I sure hope that Kuo and Schmidt have a chance to add to their current total of 1.
    2008-01-14 15:30:24
    41.   scareduck
    21 -

    I was there for that one. One of my favorite games I personally attended at Dodger Stadium.

    2008-01-14 15:32:57
    42.   Eric Enders
    40 I suppose it's a bad sign that when you combine "Kuo" and "Schmidt" you get "quit."
    2008-01-14 15:33:00
    43.   cargill06
    40- shh don't jinx it
    2008-01-14 15:43:59
    44.   Jon Weisman

    Dodgers cleared in stadium assault.

    2008-01-14 15:44:08
    45.   Humma Kavula
    43 C'mon, it's not like he said that Kuo or Schmidt was having an interesting game.
    2008-01-14 15:49:39
    46.   Humma Kavula
    44 Not saying that the Dodgers could have done anything about that mess, but...

    ...I thought it was weird that the Dodgers held the assailant for a short time after the game, and yet, the assailant found the victim in the parking lot. I've looked for people in the Stadium parking lot and only succeeded through the miracle of cell phones.

    So what's going on here? Did the victim wait for the assailant, hoping for a confrontation? Did the Dodgers fail to hold the assailant long enough to prevent a confrontation?

    Just questions. Not implying anything except that something weird happened that day.

    2008-01-14 15:51:46
    47.   Eric Stephen
    Better than combining Rafael Furcal and John Kruk, I guess. :)
    2008-01-14 15:53:25
    48.   El Lay Dave
    39 Ah, I'd forgotten that one of the generic pitcher's cards could be that good. John Kennedy, though, was not the starting 3B; B-R gamelog show that he was a very frequent defensive replacement. '65 was the famous all switch-hitting infield of Parker, Lefebvre, Gilliam (77 starts at 3B led the team), and Wills. Good thing the team ERA+ was 117. (Koufax, Drysdale and Osteen pitched 63% of the innings!)
    2008-01-14 15:57:36
    49.   CanuckDodger
    Reading Gurnick's mailbag, it looks like he's confident that the Dodgers want Abreu to be the team's utility infielder in 2008. I don't like that for two reasons: (1) I think it would be better for Abreu's development to have him playing everyday in Vegas prior to taking over for Kent in 2009, and (2) it is wasting pre-agency service time to have a player viewed as a career regular spend a year as a bench player. What are other people's thoughts on this issue?
    2008-01-14 15:59:43
    50.   Spotted Owl
    Subject Change - Off topic but I value alot of the baseball knowledge of people on this forum . This is a stratomatic keeper league question. I have Josh Beckett and am looking to trade him . Two competing offers, which would you accept?

    #1 -Matt Kemp, Adam Wainright, Andy Laroche, and a draft pick which may become Kelly Johnson

    #2 - Howie Kendrick or Ricky Weeks, Cameryn Maybin or Jay Bruce, John Garland, and Zack Grienke.

    If this is not an appropriate place for this question than just let me know and I will ony comment when appropriate. Thanks

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-01-14 16:01:27
    51.   silverwidow
    I think the A's have done a real nice job this offseason. Should be a solid team once they get the new stadium.


    RHP Dan Haren
    OF Nick Swisher
    OF Mark Kotsay


    OF Carlos Gonzalez
    OF Aaron Cunningham
    1B Chris Carter
    LHP Brett Anderson
    LHP Dana Eveland
    LHP Greg Smith
    LHP Gio Gonzalez
    RHP Fautino De Los Santos
    OF Ryan Sweeney
    LHP Joey Devine

    2008-01-14 16:03:51
    52.   Jon Weisman
    49 - If Abreu helps the Dodgers win this year, and if his development isn't completely stunted - i.e., I feel there are some benefits to watching as a major-leaguer even if you're not playing every day - I want him on the team.

    I think Abreu would get his at-bats. He could give Kent more rest, especially now that Kent needn't be relied upon to be the cleanup hitter. To me, this is what the early-70s Dodgers would do.

    2008-01-14 16:04:51
    53.   scareduck
    49 - you say that as though Jeff Kent won't spend extended periods of time on the DL.

    Even if he didn't, plenty of careers got their start despite having one guy or another on the 25-man playing ahead of them.

    2008-01-14 16:09:30
    54.   Eric Stephen
    I'd put the over/under on Tony Abreu 2008 major league PA at 200. And I'd take the over.

    I'm OK with Abreu being with the big club all season.

    2008-01-14 16:11:17
    55.   regfairfield
    49 I agree.

    51 I really don't like the Haren trade. I think if you trade a certain grade of player, you need to get at least that level of prospect in return. I put Haren at an A- player, and I don't consider anyone the A's got in that deal any better than a B prospect.

    2008-01-14 16:20:44
    56.   Eric Enders
    49 I strongly disagree.

    I think Abreu could easily get 250 PA -- which is only 150 or 200 fewer than he'd get in Las Vegas. If we're talking about him developing as a hitter, I would think 250 major league PA can help you develop at least as well as 450 PA in AAA at altitude.

    Not only that, but think of the tremendous upgrade, both offensively and defensively, that Abreu represents over whatever utlity guy would take his place. He gives you plus defense at three infield positions and much better offense than can normally be expected of a utility guy. Not to mention the valuable late-innings-close-game defensive subbing for Kent. In the short term he makes the 2008 Dodgers a much better team, and in the long term he will probably learn at least as much as he would in the minors.

    I like the move a lot; the only downside I see is the service time issue, but for a team with the financial resources of the Dodgers that's probably a pretty minor issue. If we want to keep him six years from now, we will be able to regardless.

    2008-01-14 16:20:46
    57.   CanuckDodger
    53 -- If Kent goes on the DL, you just call Abreu up. And yes, plenty of MLB regulars started out on the bench, but I wonder how many guys who started out on the bench transitioned to being MLB regulars? The Dodgers envision Abreu as Kent's replacement NOW, but if Abreu proves to be one of those talented players who just can't hit coming off the bench, might invalid inferences be drawn about his ability to hit as a regular? And maybe I wouldn't be quite so concerned if Abreu had already spent a full year in Vegas, or if I considered Abreu a finished product with nothing to work on in the minors (we all know he could stand to be more selective at the plate, though it is unknown if that is something Abreu is amenable to changing).
    2008-01-14 16:33:00
    58.   Eric Stephen
    The front of right now has a press conference picture of Johnny Podres with Sandy Koufax. Man, Sandy still looks good, even at 70-ish.
    2008-01-14 17:30:57
    59.   underdog
    I agree with Eric and Jon on this one. I mean, Loney had nothing left to prove in Vegas and yet the Dodgers sent him down to start the year, which took him a little while to get out of psychologically. Yes, it's different because the Dodgers essentially had an opening at first (or should have, right then, had they figured out sooner that Nomar needed to move to third or to the bench), while Kent is the guy for one more year, but as noted above, he's going to need rest, more than usually, presuming he doesn't get hurt, and Abreu can also start at third to fill in for whoever wins that job. I don't picture him sitting a lot, and don't see what he gains sitting in Vegas. The major league service argument is a fair one, but I don't think it overrides the rest.
    2008-01-14 17:32:42
    60.   scareduck
    57 - Pedro Martinez started his career in relief. I don't see this as an issue.
    2008-01-14 17:34:02
    61.   underdog
    being in Vegas, that is, not sitting. Whatever sits in Vegas stays in Vegas.

    I also don't want Angel Chavez coming in even in emergencies.

    2008-01-14 17:36:56
    62.   underdog
    Sigh, the Juice is just one big running rule 5 violation isn't it? Heh.
    2008-01-14 18:00:18
    63.   Eric Enders
    57 "I wonder how many guys who started out on the bench transitioned to being MLB regulars?"

    Very, very many.

    Among them Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Harmon Killebrew, Mel Ott, Albert Belle, Brian Giles, Lance Berkman, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Carlos Delgado, Jorge Posada, and Jermaine Dye.

    2008-01-14 18:01:37
    64.   Bluebleeder87
    I don't remember when Gagné hit his homer, but from everything I remember of him hitting wasn't exactly his fourtay (sp?)
    2008-01-14 18:05:03
    65.   Bluebleeder87
    Ideally you'd want Etanislao playing everyday down in Vegas but he does have a great glove, bat & he plays multiple positions so I think the Dodgers would be nuts not using him as utility/fill in player for now.
    2008-01-14 18:15:19
    66.   Bluebleeder87
    I haven't heard anything about Hu so I'm guessing he'll start in Las Vegas.
    2008-01-14 18:34:48
    67.   Gen3Blue
    49 Canuck;
    I think I have already mentioned this, but I am one who would like to see both Abreu and Hu in LA all this year. I know both sides of the argument but I think they would benefit from a ML environment and supply two fine utility men. To think Hu couldn't play any position but catcher with his arm is ridiculous. Also, I think Hu is a year older than Abreu, and in most organizations would be playing. To worry about 6 months of service time in an organization that has paid Schmidt, Pierre, Driefort, Perez and Nomar seems crass.
    2008-01-14 19:02:33
    68.   Eric Stephen
    I agree with you about the service time issue regarding Abreu, but only because that cost is outweighed by his ability to help the Dodgers in 2008. He's likely to get 200 or more PA in MLB, so there's value there.

    With Hu, I just don't think there's enough playing time for him to justify a spot on the roster, unless of course Furcal and Kent get hurt for an extended period. For Hu, the 450 PA in AAA is more valuable than the 50-100 PA he's likely to get in MLB given the current roster.

    Right now the bench appears to be:
    1) Ethier/Pierre (OF)
    2) LaRoche/Nomar (3B/1B)
    3) Abreu (2B/SS/3B)
    4) Bennett (C)
    5) Young (LF/RF/2B) or Repko (OF)

    I think a case can be made for having both Young and Repko on the roster, especially given Young's value as a PH and perhaps not needing 12 pitchers in April. I would prefer only using 11 pitcher roster spots all season, but I know that's unlikely.

    2008-01-14 19:10:39
    69.   Brent Knapp
    Has a team ever had two different pitchers homer in the same game? If so, when is the last time?
    2008-01-14 19:24:19
    70.   Sam DC
    Jon -- anyone turn you on to Posnanski's latest?
    2008-01-14 19:36:01
    71.   Eric Stephen
    I found one game:

    8/20/61 - Jack Kralick & Al Schroll each homered for the Twins against the expansion Angels in a 9-7 win.

    2008-01-14 19:41:01
    72.   Andrew Shimmin
    Darren Holmes and Carlos Perez each had home runs in the 4/13/1997 MON at COL game, but they weren't on the same team. Marvin Freeman and Kevin Foster did the same thing 5/23/1995 in CHI at COL. Fernando and Kevin Gross each hit home runs 5/14/1990 at Dodger Stadium, but that was before Gross became a Dodger.

    Refreshing, I see Eric Stephen is too fast for me.

    2008-01-14 19:44:27
    73.   Jon Weisman
    70 - His blog? I read it.
    2008-01-14 19:50:02
    74.   Sam DC
    Yeah -- Gutt/Hanks. Seemed right in your wheelhouse.
    2008-01-14 19:56:47
    75.   Gen3Blue
    68 Eric--I hear your point, but I don't think most teams get by with only one utility infielder. Young and Repko could possibly serve, but what the heck, why not Hu. If he gets no AB's, OK back to Vegas.
    I want to hear Hu's on first!
    2008-01-14 19:57:27
    76.   Jon Weisman
    My typical reaction to Joe's writing is simply jealousy.
    2008-01-14 20:08:09
    77.   CanuckDodger
    75 -- Surely Scully said "Hu's on first!" at some point during Hu's call up last season? I just wish that Hu, instead of having the first name that he has, had the same first name as that pitcher in Japan we heard about recently, Yu Darvish.
    2008-01-14 20:10:26
    78.   Gen3Blue
    Yoo-hoo Pure bliss
    2008-01-14 20:11:14
    79.   Gen3Blue
    Good night all. East coast you know.
    2008-01-14 20:12:45
    80.   Brent Knapp
    69 Thanks, I assumed it must be pretty rare.
    2008-01-14 20:43:41
    81.   ToyCannon
    When I read Joe's blog I see a guy who must have felt constrained all those years as a newspaper writer and is just hog wild happy to be a blogger where he can write about anything he damn well pleases and we get to benefit.

    I'd much rather have Abreu on the big team. Sure he could use work on plate discipline but this team will need him now.

    2008-01-14 20:47:48
    82.   Sam DC
    76 My usual reaction is, gee, this guy writes a lot like Jon Weisman.
    2008-01-14 20:51:36
    83.   Sam DC
    At times, I further think something along the lines of "after a glass or two of champagne".
    2008-01-14 21:09:15
    84.   Greg Brock
    Posnanski's blog is an absolute must read. I hope everybody around these parts reads it.
    2008-01-14 21:48:30
    85.   Xeifrank
    Nice OT win. I had to turn the TV off after the end of regulation, as I had to pull out all the stops in regards to jinxing the Lakers to win.
    vr, Xei
    2008-01-14 21:51:05
    86.   Xeifrank
    ... and better yet, the Lakers, Suns and Spurs all now in a virtual tie for the #1 seed in the Western Conference. The upcoming game against the team from the Arizona area could be an interesting affair.
    vr, Xei
    2008-01-14 21:59:21
    87.   bhsportsguy
    76 I don't even get paid to write and I'm jealous of him.

    I hope he never leaves the written pages for pot of gold on TV.

    2008-01-14 23:13:32
    88.   fanerman
    Kobe should not be jacking up 44 shots. Then again, Odom took 15 and only made 3. There's no excuse for giving up 115 points in regulation.

    But, I guess it takes time to learn how to play without the 2nd best guy on the team. Hopefully they can figure things out soon. The still ought to be better than last year's Lakers (given Fish, Farmar, Ariza, no B-Cook), even without Bynum.

    2008-01-15 00:42:40
    89.   Bob Timmermann
    Why is everybody going to bed? It's early. And my train doesn't get to Prague for another five hours.

    I really should have brought food with me. I do have an apple somewhere.

    2008-01-15 00:46:40
    90.   Andrew Shimmin
    I'm here for you, Bob. Did you hear about Joakim Noah (or whatever his name is)? I thought of you when I read the story.
    2008-01-15 02:03:48
    91.   Bob Timmermann
    Poor Joakim.... He's just misunderstood.

    A long stop allowed me the chance to get a Coke. I don't know if German coke is made with corn syrup.

    I do see sugar as an ingredient.

    But what about Sauerungsmittel Phosphorsaure?

    2008-01-15 05:37:20
    92.   D4P
    Amazing that the Lakers are tied for the best record in the West. Course, that won't last with Bynum going down. But still.
    2008-01-15 08:16:15
    93.   Gen3Blue
    Guten Tag Herr BT. You must be in Prague now.
    2008-01-15 08:20:54
    94.   Sagehen
    Somehow, I'm not nearly so worried about Abreu accumulating service time on the bench as I was with Kemp and Loney. Abreu, I don't think, has the same upside as the other two. Six years from now, he will be much easier to replace (and we will need to replace him since Boras clients almost always hit the market) than Kemp or Loney. That's my prediction anyway. With future all-stars, you worry about service time. With future major league regulars, you don't necessarily.
    2008-01-15 08:30:21
    95.   kinbote
    Anyone want Chris Shelton as a RH bat off the bench?
    2008-01-15 08:34:50
    96.   regfairfield
    95 I like him as a player, but I don't think he fits with the team when Nomar is here. We only have one arguably open spot on the bench, and it needs to go to someone who can play shortstop.
    2008-01-15 08:40:32
    97.   kinbote
    96 I agree, but I also don't think Colletti is done [is he ever?]. Shelton would fit as a legit power threat off the bench--of course, adding him would result in a rethinking of our current bench.
    2008-01-15 08:42:37
    98.   D4P
    it needs to go to someone who can play shortstop

    i.e. Royce Clayton or journeyman with generic Latino name.

    2008-01-15 08:44:53
    99.   cargill06
    97. don't know much about Lindsay, but it sounds like we already have Chris Shelton with John Lindsay, a career minor leaguer with some pop
    2008-01-15 08:48:06
    100.   regfairfield
    98 Pretty much.

    I just looked at Shelton's numbers last year and he was pretty much Jack Cust without any power. (.269/.381/.420, 83 BB, 141 K). He's worth a minor league contract at best right now.

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2008-01-15 09:04:28
    101.   ToyCannon
    Gotta love a guy who can post an OPS of 1.187 in April of 2006 in over 100 at bats and then can't come within 400 points of it the rest of his career. At one time I thought he might a have a Mike Sweeney career in him but that has come and gone.
    2008-01-15 09:05:31
    102.   Ken Noe
    D Young's AAA numbers were better than Shelton's, and should place him on the roster. Shelton only makes sense at Las Vegas in 2008; he might be viable off the bench in '09 with Nomar and Kent gone. I had forgotten that he's only 27.
    2008-01-15 09:09:59
    103.   ToyCannon
    Not to beat a dead horse but a Wilson Betemit would sure make a nice utility guy right now for us if Nomar wasn't on the roster. Torre wasn't afraid to use him at SS/2b last year and if he can do that a guy who can play every spot on the infield and give you good pop from the left side would sure fill out a bench.

    I'm already looking forward to 2009 when were 20 million lighter with Nomar/Kent gone.

    2008-01-15 09:11:39
    104.   D4P
    I'm already looking forward to 2009 when were 20 million lighter with Nomar/Kent gone

    Seems like that kind of thinking never really pans out, because the expected savings typically goes to other deadweight.

    2008-01-15 09:14:22
    105.   cargill06
    103. what about 2010 when you're 15 million lighter wtich schmidt gone.... mmmm tasty
    2008-01-15 09:16:18
    106.   Ken Noe
    103 Speaking of Betemit, I hear that Scott Proctor is now living in Nebraska as "Bob Johnson."
    2008-01-15 09:25:25
    107.   Sushirabbit
    49, etc, Maybe Abreu has been asking Kent how he plays the position and how he hits a curve. :-)
    2008-01-15 09:31:13
    108.   ToyCannon
    I always look forward to your optimistic take on everything.
    2008-01-15 09:38:58
    109.   fanerman
    108 That made me LOL.
    2008-01-15 09:47:54
    110.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    Anyone watching the House Oversight Committee hearing?

    I like Donald Fehr a lot more than I did before.

    2008-01-15 09:48:56
    111.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    Hah... 3 Senators in a row couldn't say Bud's name right.
    2008-01-15 09:50:28
    112.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    Jeff Kent just got quoted by Diane Watson.... Although she called the offseason the "post session."
    2008-01-15 09:50:58
    113.   regfairfield
    103 Sadly, it won't help that much. Going through the free agent list for next year the only guys out there that could really help us are Santana, Sabathia, Sheets, Lidge and Nathan. Depending on what you think of Abreu, Ellis or Hudson could help, or maybe you can go after Vlad or Teixiera and sort the defense out later.

    With as much young talent as we have, payroll flexibility isn't all that important.

    2008-01-15 09:53:54
    114.   cargill06
    113. if santana gets traded before the start of the season he will not be a free agent, and i can't imagine CC not getting an extension before the FA season next year.
    2008-01-15 09:56:04
    115.   regfairfield
    114 Exactly. That payroll flexibility is going to turn into "well, I guess we could throw 40 million at Joe Nathan."
    2008-01-15 09:57:51
    116.   ToyCannon
    Free Agents are not the only reason to have payroll flexibility. Think Bobby Abreu.
    2008-01-15 09:57:54
    117.   silverwidow
    113 Angels have a 2009 option on Vlad.
    2008-01-15 10:00:08
    118.   ToyCannon
    I hope Sheets can stay healthy for a whole season. The addition of Cameron which allows them to move Braun to LF, Hart to RF, and Hall back to 3b may be the biggest move in the NL even though it seems insignificant.
    A Sheets/Gallardo tandem would go a long ways toward establishing them as the team to beat in the NL Central instead of the Cubs.
    2008-01-15 10:01:05
    119.   silverwidow
    118 Doesn't Bill Hall have a poor fielding % at 3rd?
    2008-01-15 10:01:39
    120.   ToyCannon
    Anyway I wasn't so much concerned with payroll flexibility as I was with not having Kent and Nomar on the team.
    2008-01-15 10:03:16
    121.   ToyCannon
    He was an inadequate SS, but he should be just fine at 3rd but his bat may not play there if 2006 was an aberration.
    2008-01-15 10:47:41
    122.   cargill06
    how accurate of an interpratation do you think ERA+ is? I mean Penny had a better ERA+ last year than Beckett, but Beckett pitched in a much tougher hitting divison? Should there be much stock put into that stat?
    2008-01-15 10:56:00
    123.   Who Is Karim Garcia
    MacBook air is so unnecessary its sexy.
    2008-01-15 10:59:57
    124.   regfairfield
    122 No, ERA is inherenently a bad stat, so adjusting a bad stat shouldn't be all that important. Perhiperals are much more telling.
    2008-01-15 11:02:13
    125.   cargill06
    124. what about ops+, that seems like a very accurate and important stat to consider
    2008-01-15 11:11:14
    126.   LAT
    As I was getting out of the car this morning, Jim Rome said that last night on Rome is Burning, he asked Ben Howland how long he expected Kevin Love to stay at UCLA. Then Rome said we will play the answer for you in the next hour. (Thanks for the teaser Jim).

    Has anyone heard the response?

    2008-01-15 11:12:33
    127.   berkowit28
    123 Looks fantastic. Not as your one and only computer, but if you have a desktop and need a laptop just for traveling, etc. I wonder how much the Superdrive weighs - you can leave it in your room, I guess.
    2008-01-15 11:13:50
    128.   cargill06
    126. you listen to jim rome... i'm sorry. well, cowherd is an idiot too.
    2008-01-15 11:18:21
    129.   fanerman
    128 You seem to call lots of people idiots, or maybe it's just the last couple days.
    2008-01-15 11:20:25
    130.   regfairfield
    125 It's a better stat because OPS is a better number to begin with.
    2008-01-15 11:22:53
    131.   cargill06
    128, no i called a comment "stupid", not the person i'm sure the person who made that comment probably has a higher IQ than me.
    2008-01-15 11:33:16
    132.   LAT
    128. I vacillate between Rome and Cowherd. Soon as I get sick of one (which doesn't take very long) I move to the other. I usally tire of Cowherd and his arguing with himself by creating strawmen before Rome and the clones and their made up language.
    2008-01-15 11:37:49
    133.   regfairfield
    132 If Rome is just talking, he's pretty funny, not necassarilly right, but entertaining. Cowherd is mainly just annoying and doesn't care about anything but football.
    2008-01-15 11:39:33
    134.   delias man
    126 simply put, he does not expect him to stay 4 years. quite a bomb Rome dropped.
    2008-01-15 11:43:09
    135.   cargill06
    132. very funny
    2008-01-15 11:43:28
    136.   Marty
    I like the first 20 minutes of Rome. Then as soon as he goes to the phones or to an interview, I switch to news.

    I cannot listen to people calling into sports talk shows.

    2008-01-15 11:44:58
    137.   delias man
    Does anyone know if CS Bakersfield is coming into the Big West? They are playing a lot of Big West games this year, like Davis has done the last couple years.
    2008-01-15 11:54:56
    138.   silverwidow
    Tennessee fired Norm Chow.
    2008-01-15 12:06:27
    139.   Disabled List
    SOSG's latest post is pretty amusing.
    2008-01-15 12:11:49
    140.   Jim Hitchcock
    I still remember the Welch HR off Soto as one of my most exciting radio moments ever...nearly equal to the Monday HR in Montreal.

    132 Cowherd. Arrrghh!

    2008-01-15 12:12:14
    141.   Jim Hitchcock
    Actually, change that to Grrrr!
    2008-01-15 12:13:05
    142.   Brent Knapp
    More than anything I would love to see Eric Gagne's triple.
    2008-01-15 12:14:15
    143.   fanerman
    Smurfette had plastic smurfery done on her. Performed by Grandpa Smurf.

    That sounds a bit fishy to me.

    2008-01-15 12:17:29
    144.   bhsportsguy
    126 I believe he said he thinks Love will leave after this year if he is a lottery pick.
    2008-01-15 12:17:53
    145.   bhsportsguy
    140 I was at that game.
    2008-01-15 12:18:59
    146.   Brent Knapp
    Does anyone know when tickets for the game at the Coliseum go on sale?
    2008-01-15 12:20:20
    147.   cargill06
    146- i looked at those tickets on some online ticket brokers, not cheap at all. hoepfully the legitamite tickets are a lot cheaper
    2008-01-15 12:27:12
    148.   Xeifrank
    146. Hasn't been announced yet. You can get automatic updates by signing up at Dodgers.Com, but they want personal info. I hope to go to that game. From looking at the old pictures of games being played there, it looks like down the first base line gets you close to the action. The 3rd baseline is pretty far away, unless they somehow redo the dugouts. It would be interesting to sit out in left field, but I prefer not looking through a screen/net the whole game.
    vr, Xei
    vr, Xei
    2008-01-15 12:28:19
    149.   bhsportsguy
    Here's another note of appreciation for Johnny Podres.

    2008-01-15 12:30:11
    150.   cargill06
    what does vr mean?
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2008-01-15 12:33:43
    151.   bhsportsguy
    150 very respectfully, I do believe.
    2008-01-15 12:39:12
    152.   Jim Hitchcock
    140 Lucky you! IIRC, it was in the 8th inning.
    2008-01-15 12:44:59
    153.   Johnson
    126 134 To be specific, Howland said that can't imagine Love staying for a second year if he's predicted to go top ten in the draft, and he feels that with his continuing improvement that's very possible. He did not say, but seemed to imply, that he thinks Love is a two-year player max. (And yes, this isn't particularly surprising.)
    2008-01-15 12:56:53
    154.   cargill06
    is it just me or did it seems like stl. took tor. to the cleaners on that deal?
    2008-01-15 13:02:17
    155.   regfairfield
    154 In terms of one for one, yes, but Toronto is trying to build a great defensive team, and Glaus goes way against that. When McDonald is in instead of Eckstein everyone except maybe Wells is a very good defender.
    2008-01-15 13:02:33
    156.   Jacob L
    146 , 148 I just want to be "in the building" for that. It'll be neat to see, from wherever the angle. I imagine with almost 90k capacity, that getting in the door won't be all that hard.

    I also mentioned on a post last week that I've now got tix to 3 games in Vero the second week of March. I want to see some jealousy, people!

    2008-01-15 13:06:32
    157.   Bob Timmermann
    Finishing a long day of travel. Doing nothing can be tiring!

    By the time I got to Prague and settled in it was too late for sightseeing so I opted to go see some Czech hockey. Slavia Praha beat Plzen 5-2.

    There are a lot of American college students here, no doubt enjoying the easy access to good beer at a cheap price. Or so I've been told.

    2008-01-15 13:11:22
    158.   Eric Enders
    Joe Sheehan has a new article up at BP in which he claims that Jayson Werth, after going .298/.404/.459 last year, is "a strong candidate to improve his performance dramatically in 2008."
    2008-01-15 13:11:46
    159.   Jacob L
    157 The beer's only cheap since the American college students in question are no doubt externalizing the travel costs.

    Glad your having a good time. We'll try to leave you alone so you can enjoy your vacation.

    2008-01-15 13:12:19
    160.   Bob Timmermann
    When the Dodgers played at the Coliseum, some seats behind home were 720 feet from the field.
    2008-01-15 13:13:32
    161.   D4P
    I could see his SLG going up...Or at least, his IsoP. But the OBP pretty much has nowhere to go but down.
    2008-01-15 13:16:50
    162.   Eric Enders
    Oh, I've been to Prague.

    Well, I haven't been to Prague been to Prague, but I know that thing. That stop-shaving-your-armpits, read-The-Unbearable-Lightness-of-Being, date-a-sculptor, now-I-know-how-bad-American-beer-is thing.

    2008-01-15 13:17:55
    163.   cargill06
    161 what about his BA, he is at best a .275 hitter next year if he get 400 ab's
    2008-01-15 13:24:19
    164.   regfairfield
    163 I assume that's what he meant. Werth still struck out a ton last year, and always has, so I can't pencil him in for any more than a .260/.360/? line.

    I also don't think Rich Hill has much more room to break out.

    2008-01-15 13:28:28
    165.   Eric Enders
    Has anyone ever heard of a fan chant resulting in a technical foul? From the Las Cruces Sun-News:

    "The Western Athletic Conference has issued a warning to all WAC members that any pre-meditated chants that contain vulgar or offensive language will result in a technical foul called against the home team.
    At New Mexico State University, this specifically includes the chant, "Nice shot, -------," after free throws made by the opposing team. The vulgar word in this chant begins with an a and ends with an e.

    Spanish replacement words also will be met with technical fouls."

    2008-01-15 13:35:06
    166.   D4P
    Would be funny if fans of the visiting team could successfully get technical fouls called on the home team via vulgar chants.

    The Ducks used to get technicals called on them for fans jumping up and down too much, which used to actually make the baskets shake.

    2008-01-15 13:36:10
    167.   Xeifrank
    165. I think it should get a Technical foul just based on the fact that it isn't a very creative chant. vr, Xei
    2008-01-15 13:42:07
    168.   underdog
    I just mis-read this headline on the sports section of a major newspaper as "Tony Soprano remains front-runner for Dolphins' coaching vacancy" -- it actually says "Sparano" but just for a second I thought the Dolphins had finally found a way to make themselves interesting again. Ah well.
    2008-01-15 13:47:27
    169.   Eric Enders
    Stupid animal classification. Keeping us from saying "Tony Sparano sleeps with the fishes."
    2008-01-15 13:49:42
    170.   ToyCannon
    Does he address the fact that Jayson is a lefty killer and the more he faces RHP the more his numbers will get dragged down? Career wise he's about 100 points better in OPS facing LHP but last year it was over 300 points as he hit LHP at a much higher historical clip then ever before.

    He's had enough at bats where I don't see see his OPS against RHP ever heading north of the 800 line.

    2008-01-15 13:51:54
    171.   Jon Weisman
    More interesting from the Sheehan article is this:

    "Navarro was one of the worst players in baseball in the first half of 2007, batting .177/.238/.254, with a 36/13 K/BB in 229 plate appearances. To the Rays' credit, they didn't bury him, allowing him to remain the regular catcher throughout the season. They were rewarded with a significant improvement in the second half: .285/.340/.475, with a better K/BB (31/17 in 209 PA) and the best power of his career."

    2008-01-15 13:56:16
    172.   berkowit28
    165 I note that the foul is called only for "pre-meditated" chants. Spontaneous chants are OK. Might make for an interesting court case. ;-)
    2008-01-15 14:18:28
    173.   Joe Pierre
    Too bad Juan Pierre isn't a pitcher, if he were, he could try to get on this list.
    2008-01-15 14:52:12
    174.   Marty
    I suspect I'm late to the party, but the Tom Cruise Scientology promo video up on Defamer is pure gold.
    2008-01-15 14:53:01
    175.   Humma Kavula
    I root for Navarro, and I hope he has a long career and makes the Dodgers pay for getting rid of him for.... nothing.

    But I'm not getting too excited just yet. I know Sheehan used PAs, but I only have quick access to ABs on the Worldwide Leader's site...

    Mixed into that second-half performance is a July where he hit .203/.269/.322. (BB:K was 6:14)

    He hit better in August, when in 64 AB, he hit .281/.314/.484 (BB:K of 4:11). That slugging is pretty great, but .314 OBP isn't wonderful... still, that would be enough for him to keep his job.

    Then in September he really lit things up. In 72 AB, he hit .306/.370/.500 (BB:K of 8:11). That's great by anyone's standards.

    But again, we're talking about two months' performance. I will wait and see on him.

    Like I said, I root for him, and regardless of what he does, it was foolish for the Dodgers to let him go. The team needs a backup catcher; Navarro had already shown that he could perform well in limited situations; we got nothing for him (yeah, I know, Chris Withrow, if I'm remembering his name correctly). Still, the improvement Sheehan is talking about basically amounts to the month of September. That might be real, or it might be a fluke month. I'm rooting for him, but we'll see.

    2008-01-15 14:56:14
    176.   regfairfield
    175 No, we got Hendrickson and Hall for him, we got no draft picks.
    2008-01-15 14:57:01
    177.   silverwidow
    175 We got Chris Withrow as compensation for Lugo (via Joel Guzman).

    Navarro was in the Hendrickson trade.

    2008-01-15 14:57:25
    178.   Humma Kavula
    176 Oh, that's right -- it was Guzman that was traded for Lugo who left and...

    ...Hendrickson and Hall. For Pete's sake.

    2008-01-15 14:57:28
    179.   D4P
    I root for Navarro, and I hope he has a long career and makes the Dodgers pay for getting rid of him for.... nothing

    See: Werth and Ross

    2008-01-15 14:59:20
    180.   Eric Enders
    Which Ross? We got rid of both of them for nothing and they're both serviceable players.
    2008-01-15 15:00:50
    181.   D4P
    Hey: we got like $50,000 for Dave.
    2008-01-15 15:03:07
    182.   cargill06
    179 werth and ross are nice players, but if they never got rid of them the progress of Kemp, Either, and D. Young would be held back for much longer than it has been. So I'm glad they got rid of Werth and Ross for nothing.
    2008-01-15 15:03:22
    183.   regfairfield
    180 David Ross was pretty terrible this year.
    2008-01-15 15:04:10
    184.   Eric Enders
    Actually, now that I think of it, we've gotten rid of three Rosses for no good reason, but only two of them were players.*

    (*Actually, my hazy memory is reminding me that there was a fairly good reason for getting rid of Cody Ross. Someone good was coming off the DL and he was the only expendable player on the 25-man roster. Except he was also out of options.)

    2008-01-15 15:05:05
    185.   SG6
    Speaking of Werth, what ever happened to Werthless? (Grabowski)
    2008-01-15 15:05:16
    186.   Eric Enders
    183 He was better than our backup catcher. And in 2006 he was one of the best players in baseball.
    2008-01-15 15:06:41
    187.   regfairfield
    182 Would we have been a better team with Werth or Ross instead of Brady Clark last year?

    Would we be a better team with them instead of Repko this year.

    Heck if we would have kept those guys, we might not have bothered with Juan Pierre.

    2008-01-15 15:08:18
    188.   regfairfield
    184 I can trace a lot of our problems in the last two years to refusing to send down Repko.

    185 Last I checked he was failing in the Japanese minor leagues.

    2008-01-15 15:08:59
    189.   Humma Kavula
    182 I don't know that I agree that getting rid of them for nothing was a good idea -- even a C+ prospect would have been good to get -- but your larger point stands. Where does Werth fit in on the 2008 Dodgers, for example? Would having him around have eliminated the perceived need for Juan Pierre?

    I want Navarro back, because both Hendrickson and Hall are useless, and Navarro might be a useful backup.

    I want JtD back, because even if he never amounts to anything, you can't give up on a prospect like that.

    2008-01-15 15:09:37
    190.   cargill06
    187 if cody ross and jayson werth are on the roster 15 months ago Ned still goes out and get's pierre, getting rid of Werth and Ross has worked out for us in the long run. Trading LoDuca did mean a painful '05 with jason phillips at catcher but it did help our team out in the long run... hell russ would probably still either be stuck in AAA or backing up LoDuca this year
    2008-01-15 15:12:18
    191.   Eric Enders
    If the Lo Duca trade hadn't been made, Russ Martin would be a Devil Ray or an A right now.
    2008-01-15 15:12:54
    192.   regfairfield
    190 Why? It might be painful to get rid of Delwyn but those guys are at least as good as he is, and good even be better than Ethier.

    186 We did give him every chance in the world at least. I remember when we got Phillips it was near the end of Spring Training and Ross was 0 for whatever. Considering Ross barely hit in 2005, it was probably for the best.

    2008-01-15 15:13:42
    193.   regfairfield
    191 Eh, I don't think he would be. I don't think DePo extends LoDuca after 2005.
    2008-01-15 15:13:42
    194.   bhsportsguy
    175 Here's my problem, given how Grady used Martin, Dionner Navarro would have mainly sat once he was healthy in the summer of 2006. And I just don't think you can have a young player sit 85% of the time and expect him to grow as a player.

    That is why, generally, you don't see two young catchers at one time on a team because they just don't get enough playing time.

    Now, should or could they have gotten more for him, I'll say yes but if we had him today, its likely he would be a 24 year old catcher with perhaps even less value because he has not played much.

    The reason he continued to play in Tampa Bay was that their choices were Josh Paul and Raul Casanova, they don't have any other prospects to play plus, let's face it, they were not going anywhere anyways.

    I know he had some family issues so hopefully those are resolved now and like all Dodgers, past and present, I hope he does well.

    2008-01-15 15:13:43
    195.   Humma Kavula
    Yeah, I gotta say, I see cargill's point on this one. If Colletti is going out and getting Juan Pierre, it's not likely that he's going to let Jayson Werth stand in his way.

    If Juan Pierre is the answer, you're not asking the right question.

    2008-01-15 15:19:37
    196.   bhsportsguy
    189 Uhh, you can never give up on a prospect like that.

    Baseball history is filled with players who got passed around until he "got it." It is also filled with players with lots of promise who never got it.

    The Braves traded their number one prospect, Andy Marte to the Red Sox for Edgar Renteria, who in turn, dealt him (along with others) to Cleveland for Coco Crisp. Marte, now 2-3 years after his top prospect status, remains in flux in Cleveland's system, now being one of those AAAA players who you wonder will he ever make the jump to MLB.

    Joel Guzman had one great season as very young player in High A ball. He had a solid year at AA and he hit homers in AAA but his contact rate is still poor and he cannot find a position to play (I saw a note that TB is going to try him in the OF during ST).

    Right now, he is not among the top 100 prospects in the game and he is probably toward the back end of Tampa Bay's top 30.

    2008-01-15 15:19:49
    197.   regfairfield
    195 I just don't see how the Dodgers having one or two more semi valuable players doesn't make us any better. At the very least, someone gets traded, and we get better from that.
    2008-01-15 15:24:04
    198.   Eric Enders
    What outfielder should be dropped from the team at any cost?
    2008-01-15 15:25:05
    199.   cargill06
    189 who are you referring to in JtD
    2008-01-15 15:26:20
    200.   Eric Enders
    194 "Dionner Navarro would have mainly sat once he was healthy in the summer of 2006. And I just don't think you can have a young player sit 85% of the time and expect him to grow as a player."

    But we didn't need him to grow as a player. We just needed him to stay as good as he already was and be a very good backup catcher.

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2008-01-15 15:27:30
    201.   silverwidow
    199 JtD is short for Joel the Destroyer
    2008-01-15 15:30:25
    202.   fanerman
    199 201 Referring to former-Dodger prospect now Devil Ray prospect Joel Guzman.
    2008-01-15 15:31:01
    203.   cargill06
    Colleti has made his share of bad moves, but for the most part he's done a great job in his 2 year reign in LA. Furcal signing turned out to be a very good signing, and Nomar was a great signing for the '06 season. The Milton Bradley and Antonio Perez for Andre Either we can all agree he made a great move there. Trading for Greg Maddux and only giving up Izturis was a big peice of the '06 play-off puzzle. While, the Pierre signing is by far the worst move he's made, he has still held on to the young talent that appears to be the best big league talents and has seen right throught the Guzman and Jackson's of the farm system. He added a power bat and a #4 starter without losing any players via trade. While hindsight is 20/20 with Schmidt, fact is in '06 he threw over 220 innings and if you look at the highlights of his '06 season he was still consistantly in the 93-98 range with his fastball. It's hard to but a lot criticism on Ned other than the Pierre signing.
    2008-01-15 15:37:39
    204.   Humma Kavula
    197 Would it make the 2008 Dodgers better to have 'em around? Sure, it would make the Dodgers better. Those two are marginally valuable players, and the Dodgers got nothing in return, so yes, the Dodgers would be better.

    But the problem is not that they were jettisoned -- the Dodgers had better options waiting in the wings, as we now see. The problem is that they were jettisoned for nothing. If they were still around, someone would have to be traded.

    If the Dodgers had received something of value for them at the time, we would not be having this conversation.

    2008-01-15 15:38:37
    205.   Bluebleeder87

    I'm thinking there would have been some animosity if Navarro would have stayed, but that's just me.

    2008-01-15 15:47:53
    206.   Kevin Lewis
    I remember the first time I heard fan chants with cussing. It was the 1995 season for UCLA, and my dad still had season tickets. We went to every home game that year, oh it was great. But, at the USC game (which was my favorite to see), one of the USC players made a foul comment to the student section at the beginning of the game. For the next 35 minutes of playing time, every time he touched the ball the stadium would chant the same word from above (starts with the a ends with the e). It was hilarious because it lasted the whole game, and it would start the second he touched the ball and stop right when it left his hands. Oh, college fans.
    2008-01-15 15:51:38
    207.   Humma Kavula
    196 Fair enough, I guess. But:

    (1) When the Dodgers gave up on him, he was six months removed from being regarded as one of the best prospects in baseball.

    (2) They traded him for Julio Lugo. Julio. Lugo.

    So I still don't think that was a good trade, even if Withrow pans out and Guzman doesn't and it all works out for the Dodgers.

    I might be crazy when I say that I want him back. He certainly must be considered a busted prospect at this point until he puts it together -- and that day may never come. Still, I wonder if the Dodgers couldn't find room for a player who once showed such promise.

    2008-01-15 16:02:03
    208.   Lexinthedena
    Lugo was having a very good season...I didn't understand the point of aquiring him, but he wasn't known for being horrible until after he came here....

    Giving up Edwin Jackson still upsets me...the Dodgers gave up on him way too early....I still think he is going to be a good pitcher....

    2008-01-15 16:03:35
    209.   jasonungar07
    203 sorry man, a great job is not a wild card 3 and out exit in the playoffs and then a 4th place finish the next year because he made his manager play the wrong players.
    2008-01-15 16:03:35
    210.   regfairfield
    280 He got hurt the week before we got him. Coincidently, that's when he stopped being good.
    2008-01-15 16:10:05
    211.   bhsportsguy
    209 The evidence is not there regarding Ned making Grady play anyone. In fact, I would say that their relationship was probably as good a relationship a GM/Manager has had in a while almost to Campanis/Lasorda.
    2008-01-15 16:14:31
    212.   bhsportsguy
    208 Unfortunately, we are going to get more situations like these as the Dodgers have to add more and more players that the Dodgers have signed/drafted since 2002.

    Currently there are 20 out of 39 players on the 40-man roster that were either drafted or signed as an international or non-drafted free agent. It is inconceivable that all of those players will remain Dodgers. And this is not including Scott Elbert, Blake Dewitt, Clayton Kershaw, Josh Bell, etc.

    Now there is time, up to 3 years for some, and while I do expect the makeup of the club to become more and more homegrown, to expect a 25 man roster with 20 homegrown players is something I don't think will happen.

    2008-01-15 16:18:52
    213.   JimBilly4
    I don't have a problem with any of the prospect trades in the sense that I think we gave away Dodger future players. But several of them were a bit odd.

    Julio Lugo? Whether he is awful or whether he is good didn't matter. He was most certainly NOT great and we had something like 400 shortstops at the time. He didn't fit in, we didn't need him, and it was a total mess the way he was jammed into the line up.

    And Navarro... Obviously Martin is a golden god, but to ditch such a young and talented catcher for what, Hendrickson? With Navarro's pop we could have let him get healthy in AAA and then had a much more valuable trading piece. For goodness sakes, he still hasn't turned 24 yet (Feb 9).

    I think what was most disturbing about those trades was not what Colletti traded away, young players who were just never going to regular Dodgers, but what he acquired: two Devil Rays who were clearly playing well above their heads and would most predictably stop at any moment. Better to trade for nothing than to give ourselves that kind of trouble...

    On the whole Ned seems to have done ok with the kids, but his love for mediocre veterans with recent, unreliable upswings makes many of us nervous.

    2008-01-15 16:38:23
    214.   Ken Noe
    As for another Colletti acquisition: Congress grilled Selig today on whether he will punish Sabean for ignoring Stan Conte's steroid warnings.
    2008-01-15 17:04:52
    215.   Bluebleeder87
    any of you part of the .500 club? a baseball buddy of mine bought season tickets for 800 bucks & he says the seats are top notch.
    2008-01-15 17:05:13
    216.   jasonungar07
    lol..the evidence is there, your right, Grady decided to play the players he wanted to and the guys who were promised playing time went ape do do all over the place.
    2008-01-15 17:10:36
    217.   Andrew Shimmin
    Doesn't the way it ended make for some doubt about how great the Grittle/Flanders relationship was?
    2008-01-15 17:11:10
    218.   Bluebleeder87
    Nevermind I just did the research & it's apparently called 500 hitter (41 games) from what I remember he said he got infield reserve & that's 943$ close enough I guess.
    2008-01-15 17:15:20
    219.   Bluebleeder87

    I'm thinking it got bad pretty quick but Grady Little is such a passive guy he just let it boil over, I doubt that will happen with Torre as the skipper.

    2008-01-15 17:39:00
    220.   bhsportsguy
    218 Its a pretty good plan, you get the same benefits of a full season ticketholder (Opening day and all playoff games in your seats), Free media guide/yearbook per seat, etc.

    The cost difference between a full season ticket holder per ticket and the 41 game plan is $3 per ticket (Infield Reserve is $23 under the .500 plan, $20.00 for a full season).

    2008-01-15 17:55:21
    221.   das411
    Has it ever been proven anywhere that the two prospects-for-Devil-Rays deals were worse than any other offers?

    That is, even though DTers by then had grown to know and love guys like Jackson, Dioner, and "JtD", isn't it possible that the 28 GMs besides Tampa Bay all thought the value of those semi-prospects lower than of the established players the Dodgers got back in return?

    And then couldn't it follow that Colletti made the best deal he could without clogging up the roster long-term, by picking up stopgap players like Hall and Lugo that could safely be jettisoned after one season, without any LoDuca-trade-esque uproar?

    In related news, I finally ordered my copy of "Best of Dodger Thoughts" today!! I can't wait til it gets here and I can look up exactly how long DTers had been pining after those guys...

    2008-01-15 18:01:35
    222.   trainwreck
    RIP Brad Renfro
    2008-01-15 18:13:03
    223.   Andrew Shimmin
    I see the point of wondering whether there was any better offer for him, but I think it misses the mark, here, since the Dodgers would have been better off releasing Navarro outright than trading him for Hendrickson. And now, like suckers, we get to look at Gary Bennett's trackmarked carcass once a week.

    This is where the talk about how Colletti hasn't traded any of the really, super, extra-good prospects can grate on me. What's the point of trading the marginal ones for garbage? Is there anybody alive who'd rather have spent nearly 200 innings of the last two years watching Hendrickson, than Jackson? Hendrickson has been a little bit better during that time (probably not enough to matter), but still, any takers? I don't get preferring that the bad players every roster ends up sporting be be old and overpaid.

    2008-01-15 18:28:53
    224.   Andrew Shimmin
    I shouldn't say we. I'm uncommitted.
    2008-01-15 18:47:30
    225.   Jon Weisman

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