Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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Fog is often considered an ill omen, but there was something strangely soothing about finding Dodger Stadium this morning in deep cloud cover and 50-degree temperatures. After all, January is a little early for things to be heating up, literally or figuratively.
The Dodgers opened their rookie minicamp to the media today, and tantalized by the prospect of a winter's visit to the ballpark, I carved out the opportunity (at the expense of having to make up my work at some pretty odd hours this week) to grab an early taste of 2008.
Several young Dodgers - some candidates for the team coming out of Spring Training, others further down the line - worked out in relative anonymity. Not all their faces are familiar (to me, at least), and none wore names or numbers on their workout gear. For example, though I'm sure their mothers could tell them apart, there was much talk about how Andy LaRoche and (I think) Blake DeWitt looked like each other. So if you're looking for a scouting report on how everyone's swing looked, look elsewhere.
But general manager Ned Colletti, assistant general manager of player development De Jon Watson, head trainer Stan Conte and some of the prospects gave interviews today, and those of us in attendance came away with something of a status report.
"Andy and Nomar give us two good options at third base," Colletti said. "We're gonna let them figure it out. I think (Andy) is on the verge of being where (James) Loney and (Matt) Kemp were a year ago, where (Andre) Ethier and (Russell) Martin were two years ago. It's time to give him an opportunity to stick with the club and play as much as he earns."
"I think it's unfair to either player to have any preconceived notions of how it's gonna turn out. There'll be ample opportunity for both. Nomar's got the versatility to play some first base as well. James is gonna need a day off here or there.
"It's probably the first Spring Training where (Andy) has had more than a legitimate chance to make this club. Most of the time a player has to make the club. He's almost gonna have to not make the club. It's a pretty good spot to be in."
Further, LaRoche could very well remain on the team even if he's not in the lineup every day.
"You have to really look at the composition of your roster," Colletti said. "You're gonna need availability as well. I think in LaRoche's case, if he can be productive even part-time, I'd be willing to give him an opportunity to stay. Abreu, due to his versatility in the infield, perhaps the same. … I think both players may have an opportunity to be here less than full-time.
"You try to manage the needs of the club with the player's place and time, too. We need somebody with Abreu's versatility. We need somebody with (Chin-Lung) Hu's versatility – at least one or the other, if not both (though later Colletti downplayed the idea of Abreu and Hu both starting the season in Los Angeles). If Andy can produce power, even if it's once in a while, or if Nomar takes the job, that's okay too."
"That said, if the roster shakes out and he has a great spring and we start the season and he doesn't make the club out of the camp, but he's had a great spring, that doesn't mean he's down in Las Vegas the entire year. As we say every year during the Freeway Series, our roster locked in for a day."
"I struggled pretty bigtime up here at the plate," he said. "We looked back at my swing and it was a completely different swing than what I had in the minor leagues. I think I was trying to prove too much, too quickly. Instead of just staying relaxed, I think I was trying to hit too many home runs, and I was pulling off the ball, and a lot of things like that, instead of just staying relaxed, taking the same approach, just trying to get a line-drive base hit. You know, the home runs will come,"
He added that he has already begun working with new Dodger hitting coach Don Mattingly – a process accelerated by the January minicamp – to get his swing back the way it should be.
Neither Colletti nor LaRoche currently view his back as a concern.
"He seems to be doing fine," Colletti said, "and it's our understanding if he stays in proper condition and works out, it ceases to be any detriment whatsoever."
LaRoche said his back feels "great," and that he needs to do exercises a few times a week, 10 to 15 minutes a day.
"The last time I got hurt during the season, the last time I missed any games because of my back, that's the last time it's hurt me at all," he said. "Coming in, I wasn't sure how taking all these grounders was going to feel last week, but it's been fine."
"It's a Joe Torre question, but it's not out of the realm of possibility," Colletti said.
"I'm fine with the outfield as it is. I like the versatility of it. I like the depth of it. I like the competition of it. Nothing wrong with competition. When you have competition, you have a chance to be a better club. Just like at third base. Let the players decide who's gonna play and how often they're gonna play."
"We'll see how everybody pitches," Colletti said. "If he continues to progress, there's a great chance he'll be ready to go. But there's still a long way to go, and a lot of different tests that he has to pass, so to speak. But we've had nothing to discourage us. He's been throwing a while now. He's throwing off a mound. As of about two weeks ago, he was throwing every other day, on flat ground, about 100 throws a day, and now he's off the mound. Again, not 100 percent throwing, not everything-he's-got throwing, but … continuing to (build) his arm strength."
Conte will visit Schmidt later this month, aiming to smooth his transition to Spring Training.
"We've been really concerned in developing a lot of strength and flexibility at each phase of this," Conte said, "and making sure we don't have any setbacks. We're going to continue to do the same thing — not based on the calendar. As far as where he's going to be in Spring Training, I'll tell you guys the same thing I tell Ned Colletti when he asks me: 'We won't really know what he's going to do the first day of Spring Training until about a week before, depending on how he does the next three or four weeks.' "
Of course, this depends in part on Schmidt being forthcoming about any problems.
"We've told him that if he doesn't tell us, we're gonna beat him with a stick to a pulp," Conte said. "Jason knows exactly what's at stake here. … There's no reason for him to lie to me yet."
Conte has hopes Schmidt will be 100 percent for the season, but it wasn't any kind of guarantee. Conte also didn't want to be pigeonholed as to what "100 percent" meant, other than health – as opposed to quality of performance.
"Hopefully, Kuo's healthy," Colletti said. "We had the same hope a year ago, after how he pitched at the end of the '06 season. He's another one that feels fine right now, but we'll have to wait and see. We could use him. We don't have many left-handed pitchers. Greg Miller's another one, another lefthander that's got a chance to make this club. We're not at appoint yet where we know if we're going to go with 11 or 12 pitchers, but you do the math, we don't have or 11 or 12 that we can lock in today."
Watson also commented positively about Miller, who will be competing for a bullpen job.
"He was healthy all of 2007," Watson said. "We worked on the command. He was in Arizona Fall League, and he's healthy. The velocity was back last year – he was anywhere from 92 to 97 (mph) the entire year. The command was the thing we were really trying to harness through the course of the year."
Watson said the Dodgers do plan to convert 2007 minor-league relief ace Jonathan Meloan to a starting pitching role, and that's how he'll begin the season (one would think in Las Vegas).
"He's not somebody that we're going to delay his arrival," Colletti said. "He'll be here when he's ready. He may be here before he's completely ready, depending on injuries. But there's still some refinement for him, still some of the finer points of the art of pitching that he's still learning. He's not 20 years old yet. But he's got tremendous ability."
Watson seemed open-minded about the idea of promoting young players, be they Kershaw, James McDonald or someone else. One of the purposes of the current minicamp is to prepare for that, by letting the Dodgers become more acquainted with the prospect and by letting the prospect become more acquainted with Los Angeles.
"I think you really need to look at the player," Watson said. "The player's character and makeup, how he handles situations, the amount of innings he's had through the minor leagues to get himself prepared to come and perform at the major league level. His overall tool set and how does it fit and how it will play against some of the better players at the major-league level – against any player at the major league level. There's no league higher than the big leagues.
"As they're progressing through the minor-league system, they start separating themselves. They're showing you their attributes, and what they can or can't do, and our job on the player development side is to close that gap on the things they can't do, so that they are a well-rounded major-league player, whether it be a pitcher or a position player. Getting them comfortable in the environment so that they can have that sense of "I've been here, I've done this before.'
"Can you rush a kid? Sure, some kids can get rushed. But for us, we want to make sure that we've done everything possible to prepare that player for coming to the major leagues, and we wouldn't recommend him to be ready if we didn't think he was ready to come here and handle it – the entire aspects on the field, off the field."
And that includes keeping tabs on the player after his debut, to guide him through the on-field setbacks.
"I try not to (think about it)," said the lefty, who turns 20 on March 19, "but I kind of figure if I have a good start every time I go out, and if I pitch well, then I've got the opportunity to maybe get up here later in the year and help them out. If that happens, that'll be a dream come true for me, and if it doesn't, I'll have next year too. So I'm really not worried about it."
Kershaw had a productive offseason, but didn't work too hard. He said he felt well-rested, noting that he took a month off at the end of the season, then pitched lightly in instructional league. He is eager to improve.
"Next season I'm really going to start working on my changeup, really start trying to perfect that, making it a pitch that I can throw in any count. And really overall just more strikes – I know that's pretty much what every pitcher tries to do, but at the same time, it's really going to help me if I can just attack the zone a little bit more and cut down on my walks."
Kershaw said his control wasn't a mental thing … although the more he talked about it, the more it seemed like a mental thing.
"It's a lot of things pitching-wise, as far as really being aggressive, really not lapsing in any concentration things. You've got to focus on every hitter, and I learned that when I got up to Double-A."
Kershaw said he has benefited from this month's minicamp.
"Marty Reed is the pitching coordinator, and he always works with me. He's always a real big help for me. And it's really good whenever I get to work with him. And (pitching coach) Rick Honeycutt was out here for my first bullpen (session), and that was a great experience for me, just to see what he expects from his pitchers."
Colletti said it was too soon to discuss whether Kershaw could come up in a bullpen role. Kershaw said he had never pitched out of the bullpen, but added that "as long as you can condition your arm to get ready a little faster … I think I could do it."
"Our bench right now on a given day would be a young bench," Colletti said. "We can improve that with a veteran. There's not a team in baseball that wouldn't add another pitcher, so if that opportunity presents itself, we'll follow that as well.
The Dodgers have been talking to free agents Mark Sweeney and Rudy Seanez from the 2007 team, but nothing concrete has developed, and they might move forward without one or both.
Colletti said that Delwyn Young is definitely in consideration to be a key pinch-hitter off the bench, despite his youth. And even though Hu is a longer shot to make the team in April, Colletti had high praise for him.
"Obviously, he played up here last September and did pretty well," Colletti said. "I think he's on the verge of being a big-league player. He may be somebody that is where Andy LaRoche was a year ago, where maybe barring an injury, it may be tougher for him to make the big-league club out of camp. Doesn't mean he won't. He may come in and he may end up beating out Abreu. Tough to say.
"But (Hu) can play both sides of the bag, he's become a stronger player, and he's probably made us think about twice more than anybody lately, and he's also advanced from two years ago to last year probably more than anybody."
"The one thing you can't duplicate at the minor-league level is the pace of the game and the flow of the game," Watson said. "The quality of pitching that they're going to see up here or the players on the other side of the baseball on the defensive end. These guys are all – Abreu, DY, Chin-Lung Hu – they're seem to be ready to play here."
"Delwyn … he's shown that he can hit, and the ability to make adjustments off the bench. Well, the pitchers that he's going to face here, I can't get those guys to perform or play or match up against us every time in Vegas. So for him, he's ready to see (the best). When he came here last year, we looked at his performance at Vegas as well as what he did at the major-league level. He's ready."
"Spring Training for me, instead of a movie, it's almost slide by slide," he said. "Whenever I see a hitter's at-bat, I see how they handle whoever's pitching pitch-to-pitch. Spring Training to me is a lot of chapters, a lot of individual chapters to where a player's at.
"How a young player handles himself in Spring Training really sets the tone for the thought process for a season, because there'll be some players every spring, probably three or four, that have great springs. They're not quite ready to play in the big leagues, or you've got somebody that's more established already playing, but teams go through so many players in the course of a year, the impression a player leaves in Spring Training lasts a long time. … Invariably, the ones who had the solid spring are the ones who come to mind, even if there's somebody in the minor leagues that's perhaps got more experience than they do.
"It gives us all an indication to a lot of things, including their work ethic, including their ability to adjust to a different situation."
We talked a little about players like Wilson Valdez, players whose springs seem to belie their true ability. Colletti acknowledged that in those cases, he's trying to ride the crest of what might be a soon-to-collapse wave.
"You're hoping he's made a leap," Colletti said. "When any player that's in his late 20s and been around a little bit, you have a pretty good idea of who he is, and you think that perhaps he's made a leap. And even if he hasn't made the full complete leap – at this point in the season, at this point in time, he's pretty good and deserves a chance to make a big league club."
By the time the session was ending, the fog was long gone, and I could feel the warm sun on my face full-stop. You can hide, but you can't run. The 2008 season is coming, faster than you know.
Start selling the tees again, Jon. Put me down for three.
1) The spring trip to China
2) The move to Arizona
3) The game at the Colliseum
vr, Xei
Nice job Jon but you really shouldn't use up all that space on some fictional 19 year-old who might pitch for the Dodgers this year.
One line i liked......against any player at the major league level. There's no league higher in the big leagues.
Uh, okay.
Sometimes Ned doesn't let go of his old ways of thinking:
"Our bench right now on a given day would be a young bench," Colletti said. "We can improve that with a veteran...."
Well, yeah, if he's a good veteran who's better than the young player....
I think you have to throw that in to the equation, just being better than younger player is not the end all of deciding who makes the 25-man roster or not.
Bring on 2008! I'm getting excited.
Despite what CHONE's projection says! ;-)
- from a dedicated reader, infrequent poster.
Does anyone else see Jason running around the vast Las Vegas outfield in his future?
That whole paragraph made me cringe a little. But plenty of positives overall. Liked a lot of what Kershaw had to say. And not convinced by anything said about Schmidt.
Excellent write up Jon. Thank you for your hard work.
It's not so hard to believe that he's healthy enough to do soft tossing. The problem is that's only the tip of the iceberg.
Anyway, I'm just happy to hear what they think about thirdbase. That it sounds like we can be done with any talk of bringing in a veteran 3b to compete, that he has a good chance of beating out Nomar, and that Nomar (whom I do still like, as a spot starter) will still get a fair shair of playing time. I also like that they're at least considering DY as a bench player/PH role. If they don't sign Sweeney he'll have an even better chance I'd think.
I don't think Andy LaRoche and Blake DeWitt particularly look alike. Hmm.
Anyway, this quote...
"How a young player handles himself in Spring Training really sets the tone for the thought process for a season... the impression a player leaves in Spring Training lasts a long time."
...makes me think of a ST game I attended in Vero last spring. LaRoche, playing left field, caught the last out of an inning and as he jogged back to the dugout, he feinted as if he was going to throw the ball into the stands several times. Then, when he reached the bench, he kept the ball. Didn't give it to anybody. This got him a rousing round of boos from the fans. I thought he was just goofing around, but some people seemed to think there was actual malice involved. Anyway, I sometimes wonder if LaRoche's propensity for things like this is one reason that he seemed to be treated worse by the Dodgers last year than his performance dictated he should be.
Weisman 1, Gurnick 0.
On a related note, I drove by the Stadium this past weekend to ask if the rookie workouts were open to the public. The guy at the security booth said they are not, but you if you just tell them you're going to the gift shop, you can actually watch from the top deck. That might be worthwhile, assuming today wasn't the last day.
On the other hand, you could say that my interest in watching minor leaguers work out from the top deck of Dodger Stadium is a sign that something is very wrong with me. I'll blame January.
This is probably the most anticipated Dodger season in a long time. I just want spring training to start.
Will the team be holding camp on Friday? I think I just might be feeling a cold coming on (cough, cough).
Regarding said PVL at 3rd, I'm in the camp where if he's swinging hard come April, let Andy pry the job from his "cold" dead fingers. Put their lockers right next door to eachother during the season, and give them both a real clear goal to shoot for every at bat.
Of course I'm also assuming Andy still makes the roster if he's not a starter, and picks up some ab's at third, second and left.
Again, thanks for what you do for us here.
-AMAZING post/article/write-up Jon. Time and time again, you outdo yourself to make this the best, most close knit online community I have ever been apart of.
-I don't know if it's just me but I am really impressed with De Jon Watson. His statements are logical and provide good amount of information; especially on the topics that interest me the most :). I can definitely see him becoming a GM candidate down the road. Colletti has really surrounded himself with quality assistants.
Jon...can you come up with someone to compare Clay Kershaw with? Is he an Erik Bedard/Cole Hamels type guy?
Well right now, as you read in Jon's post, he still really needs to work on his change up. It is plus at times, but he wants it to be plus...all the time!
I think Kershaw's ability is a cross between CC Sabathia and Erik Bedard. He has the excellent moving fastball, hoss like innings eating ability, and tilted cap action of CC combined with that rare plus plus slow bender of a curveball of a Bedard.
Whoever said this is one of the most anticipated seasons in a while, I fully agree. I can't wait!
Kershaw, Mcdonald, Elbert, Morris, Withrow, Meloan, Adkins, Sexton....OH MY!!!
(although I seriously would've spread this out into like a week's worth of individual stories if any of the interviews I get to do now were this rich in material...geez!)
One minor Q though, does the outfield "as it is" include Ethier and Kemp OR one of those two and Pierre in LF?
I understand why folks found this so encouraging, and I did in a lot of ways too, but I wonder if it just speaks of something wrong in me that my first two reactions were:
1. Of course, I'm glad he's praising the young players and saying he'd go to Opening Day with La Roche and Nomar, but he'd say that stuff (or at least he should) even if he hated this roster and was just steaming that he missed out on Scott Rolen. In other words, when I don't like the news from team officials, I remind myself that they have a lot of audiences and motivations behind what they say, and that should hold too if I like what they say.
2. In talking about the players, both Colletti and Watson talk so much about makeup, and handling the situation, and tone and so much totally subjective stuff. I understand they are talking about stuff that is hard to describe, and I realize this sort of media event just naturally calls for that kind of talk, but I find it offputting after a point. I mean, at some point, actual performance of these players over there minor league careers could be referenced too, no?
I am buying into the idea that Torre WILL play the better player (Ethier versus Pierre) I don't know if it's wishful thinking from my part but I do hope he plays Ethier a lot more than Pierre.
(1) This is amazing work, Jon. This is the perfect thing to get excited for the season. Maybe I'll wear my Matt Kemp 27 shirt to work tomorrow.
(2) There is no bad news here. I used to get a little skeptical when somebody would tell me exactly what I want to hear, but now, I think I'll take it at face value.
(3) CHONE be damned. Bring on the D-Backs!
No, it's not just you. I react similarly when I see statements of his quoted.
58 But in this day and age we all have access to the numbers. What the Dodger officials can provide like no other is the subjective stuff. The fact that these kids are the cream of the minor-league crop - Mario Alvarez notwithstanding - means, I think, that their actual performance is already understood to be of sufficient quality.
iTunes now offers WKRP in Cincy episodes for download (minus some of the songs, alas), including the one I just purchased: Turkey Drop!
Awesome read Jon.
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/all-time-teams-the-all-juiced-team/
I will echo all the other posters here when I say excellent article Jon, I dont post here much but I check on DT religiously/multiple times everyday. Thanks for great site.
first... jon, wow... spectacular report. asked a lot of questions i wish i had the brains to ask. much, much appreciated.
second... does ned come with a translator? i got lost in the whole "chapters" thing...
i happened to look at another site and learned that travis denker is now a property of the... i hate to even write this, but it's tough to avoid... the giants. he's kinda below the radar, but if you look at stats, he's looks about the same as blake dewitt, a guy who seems to get a lot of buzz... what did we get in return for denker? if we gave him away, why? he turns 23 this season...
In Baseball, Fear Bats at the Top of the Order
>> I remember learning on my first trip to Dodger Stadium that "no one wants to strike out here because it is a long walk to the dugout." <<
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/opinion/16glanville.html
The Dodgers received 2 months of Mark Sweeney for Travis Denker.
>> I do not mean to make light of the condition, certainly not for the people who genuinely have it. But considering the newly discovered prevelance of A.D.D. in baseball, I am highly skeptical of the claims.
Players now claim they have it so they can receive therapeutic-use exemptions from the ban on the use of stimulants. Amphetamines, for half a century or more the stimulant of choice in baseball, are banned, so players have turned to other stimulants, although they are banned as well without a prescription.
By receiving an exemption, a player can use stimulants like Ritalin and Adderall, which are prescribed for people who really have the disorder. <<
http://tinyurl.com/2hsccc
I think I was trying to prove too much, too quickly. Instead of just staying relaxed, I think I was trying to hit too many home runs, and I was pulling off the ball, and a lot of things like that, instead of just staying relaxed, taking the same approach, just trying to get a line-drive base hit. You know, the home runs will come
Just put the ball in play, that's all I ask. Given that the Lakers are currently sitting with the best record in the west, it's hard for me to get too interested in the Dodgers, but I have a feeling that might change come March...
This is an unscientific sample.
Plzen is a little bleak, but it's the home of Pilsner Urquell, and the bottled (even tap) version of that beer that we get here in the states is a pale pale shadow of the stuff at the source. Karlovy Vary, Ceske Budejovice, Cesky Krumlov, Brno... Mmm, I'm getting thirsty.
I too liked much of what I read from Colletti. I really do think he's learned something on the job. Or at least he's been convinced by others of the right path, even if he doesn't understand why it's right. I thought last October that the best thing that could happen to the Dodgers was the Rockies and DBax advancing to the NLCS. I wonder if that woke him up to the notion that young players can get it done.
I actually don't mind the blather about makeup and character -- I just think those are shortcuts for subjective evaluations of whether a player WILL be able to produce in the big leagues. This goofy stuff about chapters and slide-by-slide views during Spring Training, however, shows that Colletti still doesn't have any clue about sample size, and about the danger of drawing inferences from anecdotes. "Well, I saw that LaRoche had a little trouble with a good slider that pitcher X threw." Does that mean he can't handle good sliders in general, or just that one pitch fooled him? That's the whole point of statistics - to let us see the forest for the trees.
Whatever. Frankly, I've given up caring whether or not Colletti "gets it." He can make correct decisions for the wrong reasons all year long, as long as he makes correct decisions. If Watson and White and Ng are making the calls and Colletti is just the media-friendly talking toupee, that's fine too. Just keep the likes of Ramon II, Hillebrand, Pierre, Hendrickson, and Tomko far away from the field, and I don't care how you justify it to yourself and your Plaschke.
Go Blue!
I did see Plzen play hockey though.
67 Re: LaRoche's back exercises. Perhaps LaRoche and Lowe should get together and stretch together. Someone has to make sure Lowe keeps doing his hip exercises!
72 As I recall, the excuse for trading Denker at the time was that with DeWitt in the system, there was plenty of depth at his position. He was blocked, so he was expendable. Or so the story goes. Personally, I'd rather keep the depth until a really good trade comes up ...
With Abreu and Hu ahead of him, Dewitt, DeJesus, Mattingly, Pedroza, among others in the mix behind him, I don't think Travis was in the plans. And even if it was just 2 months, I think it was a fair trade at that time.
If memory serves, Joe Torre and John Wooden have a relationship that maybe dates to Joe's years as an Angel broadcaster.
Also, the video notes that youngsters worked out with current Dodgers, Andruw Jones, Matt Kemp and James Loney.
Kemp and Loney = PVL...?
A couple of years ago I was rooting for Loney and Abreu and that carried over to last year. This year it is going to be Hu, Miller, and Meloan. Kershaw is too much a given.
I felt Meloan was a starter and we will soon find out if I felt correctly. I didn't need statistics to back up or make my case for what I felt about Martin needing more rest going into the second half last year. And, I think Dewitt will have a better career than LaRoche.
Awesome.
In any case, now I'm fired up for baseball season to start! Less than a month to go until pitchers and catchers report!
The thing that shines thru for me is how committed Coletti is to building thru youth. Like many dodger fans I worry about Ned doing something really stupid. After looking at his body of work as a dodger we see that:
1. he really is committed to building thru youth (which I like).
2. For the most part he has avoided making monumental blunders (a la dreifort for example)*
* obviously pierre was a blunder, but I wouldn't call it monumental. The guy he's blocking is ethier, who is basically league average. It's not like he's blocking the next Ken Griffey Jr. that being said, it seems as the the pierre situation will be decided by Torre. Let's hope juan pierre doesn't become our bernie williams (at the end)
Dreifort was a decent pitcher signed to a bloated contract.
Pierre was a very poor hitter signed to a bloated contract.
The problem with Dreifort is that he got hurt: the problem with Pierre is that he hasn't.
Thanks for the write up Jon, nice to see that things are humming along just fine. Colletti must have found Jesus this offseason because I am having trouble reconciling the Dodgerthoughts approved offseason with the guy who signed Schmidt and Pierre, extended Nomar and Kent and sent James Loney down to start 2007. Oh well, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
1. Player's potential
2. Likelihood of reaching that potential
With respect to #1, Dreifort has a clear advantage over Pierre. Dreifort had "upside", whereas Pierre did not.
with respect to #2, Pierre has a clear advantage over Dreifort. Pierre never gets hurt, whereas Dreifort could reasonably have been expected to miss time due to injury.
Neither "signing injury-prone player with upside to big contract" nor "signing healthy player who sucks to big contract" seem like good ideas to me, but there's pretty much no way the latter will work out in your favor.
Dreifort at least had some chance at living up to his contract, but I think it hurt us more than Pierre's.
I agree, though Dreifort's contract hurt more in hindsight while Pierre's was guaranteed to hurt.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2162645323/
I think it's worth perusing.
Back on topic:
Both Pierre and Driefort were bad signings. The former because the risks were simply too high (both injury and production absent injury), the later because the risks were nothing but the player you knew you were getting was bad and the Dodgers had internal options that were clearly no worse.
Overall, if one is forced to rank the two, I have to put the Pierre as the worse of the two simply because with Dreifort there was significant upside and the most significant risk was mitigated with insurance - which in fact did mitigate our risk and made the contract considerably cheaper.
There is, of course, an upside to Pierre too, that mitigates our risk. He can provide something in trade and he can be one of the best 4th OFs in baseball. As things stand, however, he is hurting the Dodgers. At least with Dreifort all we lost was money (he was on the 60-day so much that he didn't even really cost us the roster spot).
Pierre is a much bigger blunder than Dreifort.
Dreifort was a decent pitcher signed to a bloated contract.
Pierre was a very poor hitter signed to a bloated contract.
The problem with Dreifort is that he got hurt: the problem with Pierre is that he hasn't.
LMAO, well said D4P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>Colletti will be among the participants in a charity soccer game that Nomar Garciaparra and his wife, Mia Hamm, will play host to at the Home Depot Center on Jan. 26. Colletti said he was a left-sided midfielder for Triton College in Illinois and later for a semi-pro team in Chicago {!!}, but hasn't played in a competitive game in about 25 years {ah}.
"I just got some new shoes and I know that there's either two goals in those shoes or a torn ACL," said Colletti, who will share the field with present and former soccer stars such as Landon Donovan and Eric Wynalda.<<
Ned might want to invest:
http://tinyurl.com/2jajs5
It seems impossible that as recently as two months ago trades were rumored in which the D's would give up Kemp, LaRoche, Kershaw and another player for one player. And the fear around here seemed real, probably for good reason. Things seem to have really improved, but I won't take anything for granted until the season starts.
84 Shame on you :o)
Heh heh heh.
I haven't been to DT in a while. Has anyone made the Grady Little to Wade Phillips comparison. To me they have a lot of similarities, but most of all, they were both very "nice, easygoing" coaches who eventually lost control of the team.
They kinda look similar, but my buddy told me Phillips looks like Chris Matthews. Hardball!!!
109 is it more dangerous playing on a rug or under one?
http://tinyurl.com/2rq82z
There'd have to be a special memo sent to Terry Francona telling him that a tuxedo t-shirt was not an acceptable alternative.
1. Ethier and JP share left field out of spring training.
2. Ethier emerges as Torre's regular by May.
3. JP gets moved at the deadline for a middle reliever.
4. NedCo joins the LA Galaxy as a striker.
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2007/04/11/Yr8emfIv.jpg
So my day-late-and-dollar-short Hendrickson post is all Jon's fault. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Dewitt is one of those guys that may not ever be more than a role player and I don't root for him like I have for others. But I think he has an ability to contribute even if his contribution will end up like Von Joshua's. I am very pleased that most DTers believe in LaRoche more than I do because he could be an exciting player to watch.
Dewitt might grade out to be a B and LaRoche might grade out to be an A. I just feel that history will show Dewitt made grade B and LaRoche will not have gotten that high. I might need nothing more than a hot start from LaRoche to humbly jump on his bandwagon.
I believe the correct term is "sports bro".
Or "sports mansiere", if you prefer.
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Yah, speaking of 125 - I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my new soccer shoes made specifically for playing on sport turf, which will hopefully cut down on my plantar fasciatis and heel problems. If I can't play on Sunday, I'll give Ned a call.
I am predicting shin splints or a pulled groin. Either way he will wake up very sore the next day, unless he "Pierre's" himself and sits on the bench for a better player
Ethier/Pierre
LaRoche/Nomar
Bennett
Young
Repko
Abreu
This bench would give us speed, power, versatility and keep us from giving away Delwyn or Repko. Abreu will get at least one start a week at second base, and he'd be a defensive replacement for Kent in late innings. I think this switch hitter with some pop in his bat will stick with the team regardless of what veterans or Angel Chavezes are brought in to compete. I believe Hu should be starting everyday at short in AAA to give us a good idea about what to do about Furcal for 09 and beyond.
This proposed bench is too young for the Nedster though. I think he'll bring back Sweeney which makes Repko and/or Young the odd man out. Sweeney can play a little first base and perhaps left field in a pinch, but he isn't an interchangeable piece like Delwyn, who is also a switch hitter.
The player who still intrigues me is Piazza. If we moved Nomar to another team, Piazza could get a few starts at first, be our third string catcher, and let us spell Martin during late innings of a lopsided game. He'd give us power off the bench.
I also think we could see Ethier or Pierre moved if the right deal comes along.
131 , 132 i'm pretty uneducated on player options and rule 5 and other roster moves. If anyone could give me some info on how everything works it would be greatly appreciated
Repko is either destined to Las Vegas as the first callup if something happens to one of the other outfielders or he will be dealt for a minor league mid-prospect or yet another middle reliever.
I think all the love that Young is getting both from his being on the USA team last fall and from Watson during this minicamp plus his option status gives him the advantage over Repko for the 25-man roster.
The Dodgers acquisition of Jones made Repko's defense much less valuable and made having a strong bat a more valuable ingredient to the team.
http://tinyurl.com/buqrv
-The good: He really helped Telly get over a mental block in catching a ball. I found that very encouraging viz a viz his coaching abilities.
-The less good: He apparently felt that Telly's problem was important enough to leave the Stadium during the 9th inning of a tight ballgame. Tough to imagine that this sort of thing won't be an issue in celebrity-obsessed L.A. Priorities, Joe.
I said I was intrigued by my proposed bench, I wouldn't expect to see it.
(Rizzuto, who was a longtime Yankee broadcaster, would leave the games before they were over in his later years)
What makes this bench possible is if we moved Ethier or Pierre.
vr, Xei
Any word in your inner circles on Piazza? He doesn't seem to have a DH job in the works, and if he doesn't retire, we'd be a logical fit for him to play one more year.
I sure liked Gary Carter's final years.
Secured Roster Spots As Of January 17th (20)
1. Pitchers (9): Brad Penny, Chad Billingsley, Derek Lowe, Hiroki Kurada, Estaban Loiaza, Joe Beimel, Scott Proctor, Jonathan Broxton, Takeshi Saito.
2. Catchers (2): Russell Martin, Gary Bennett
3. IF (5): James Loney, Jeff Kent, Rafael Furcal, Nomar Garciaparra, Andy LaRoche
4. OF (4): Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier
If Healthy, Will Be On The Roster
Jason Schmidt
Battling for Spots
Greg Miller, NRIs, Delwyn Young (I think he has one but not sure enough to move on the first list), Jason Repko, Tony Abreu, Chin-Lung Hu, Hong Chi Kuo
147 i think the focus right now is more on the Seanez' and Dotel's of the world. Once a middle reliever is signed than if he feels the need for anohter utility player than he'll explore that option. Personally, I don't see a need for Piazza espicially since he'll be asking for some decent coin
Related to the bench talk, I've been assuming all along we'll carry 12 pitchers, but maybe we won't even be able to find 12 pitchers worth carrying!
Piazza turned 39 in September, he did not catch a single game last year though he did catch in 99 games for the Padres in 2006. The other thing is that Mike, being a starter for his entire career, does not have a good track record of pinch hitting, in 2006 he only had 18 plate appearances as a PH, he got 3 hits, one a home run and walked 4 times.
If Mike plays in 2008, the AL with the DH would be a more likely spot as it was he only appeared in 83 games last year.
Canadians and their Hulls...
145 Interestingly, the 4 for 3 outfield spots will be watched by many folks outside of DT as a indication of how Joe will manage this team. It seems unlike the LaRoche/Nomar battle that will be won more or less on the field, I don't believe how good or bad Ethier, Kemp or Pierre play in ST is going to influence what happens when the season starts on March 31st.
I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. I do believe Nomar and LaRoche will battle for the 3rd base job in the spring. Also, from all indications, Pierre will have to win the left field spot and not just be handed it because he has a big contract. I can understand where you are coming from, and it sounds like you believe that Nomar and Pierre will get these positions because they are veterans and overpaid on bad contracts that were stupid to begin with. Please clarify.
Roger (Pasadena): any thoughts on how Joe Torre handles the dodgers OF situation? Is he the kind of man who will let some stupid conseq. games streak stand in the way of doing what's right?
Christina Kahrl: I'm going to be really, really interested to see how this works out, because Torre has had the advantage of so much seeming stability with the Yankees in years past that I'm not sure he'll be able to adapt to a fluid situation where he'll have elective choices over who to play.
I hope to God that Torre and Dodger management will carry thru with what they have implied. I can see where you don't really believe it.
The difference here is that Loney, Kemp et al. are better that were blocking them, the same isn't true with Hull.
Both played last year for about 1 mil. If they are given that type of contract again, they'd sign. We might have offered Seanez a minor league contract and might be stringing Sweeney along for a reduced amount. I could be wrong, but I think this resolves the two small areas we might want to upgrade with the aforementioned PVLers that seem desirable to a young team.
I don't expect Young to start nor do I expect him to play a lot. Just being in the bigs from April on will thrill me, it would be the shot I'm hoping for. If we sign Sweeney, I think that makes it harder for Young to make the team. He is still trade bait I'm afraid. We don't want to put him on waivers, but we aren't behind him enough to keep him in our long term plans.
http://tinyurl.com/ywjwn8
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3201442
WHY?!?!
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Man, I'm rooting hard for Greg Miller, too, but his control's going to have to have improved radically over what I saw last year - and maybe it has, if reports about him this winter are an indication. But boy, I'm not putting too many chips on that square.
That sounds like the contact originated from Mike Powers, Sanders' agent. I would imagine the call fell on something close to deaf ears.
He comes running back to my car, and screams "I am NOT HAPPY!
Okay, I say...so which one are you?
That's when the fight started...
167 Its not that I don't believe them, really its the contrary, for the first time in a few years, it seems likely that LaRoche and Young have a real shot to be on the team and be contributors right off the bat. I was just saying that how the outfield situation plays out will be closely watched by observers over at Baseball Prospectus and other baseball sites.
And by us.
Now, how about the one where Mickey goes to see a therapist - though that ends in a rule 1 violation.
Year OPS+
1994 110
1995 154
1996 113
1997 120
1998 099
1999 134
2000 076
2001 117
2002 107
2003 131
2004 103
2005 127
2006 086
2007 135
Not once did his OPS+ number trend in the same direction 2 years in a row. He's the walking embodiment of reversion to the mean. Some pretty huge swings in there too.
Posada, games started at C (MLB rank)
2000: 136 (3rd)
2001: 126 (T-5th)
2002: 131 (2nd)
2003: 131 (T-5th)
2004: 126 (2nd)
2005: 123 (7th)
2006: 121 (T-7th)
2007: 126 (4th)
It might be different for Torre without the benefit of the DH to rest Martin. Posada has DH'd 27 times in the last 8 years (~3.5 games/yr).
The key for Martin rest might be late game rest. Martin led MLB in 2007 with 145 games caught (adnd 143 starts). Martin caught 1,254 innings last year, which was 108 more innings than anyone else in the game (Kendall).
You know what though, I'll be the first NOT to care about his tummy if he performs well on the field.
I'd settle for Pierre being allowed to start only on days that Martin does not. :)
Oh, well, I guess they figured they covered the desert trekking in `Dead Man's Walk'.
The movie from start to finish was not compelling. If not for my great admiration for the books, and the dearth of other good t.v. this week, I wouldn't have watched nearly as much as I did.
I like the idea Colletti proposes of Nomar as a possible pinch hitter. That is veteran-presence to the extreme. Super-ultimate-veteran pinch-hitter. Super-duper.
www.baseballauthority.wordpress.com
I think, we as Dodger fans, are all a little wary after years of Lo Duca breaking down after the month of June, but I'm not worried about Martin--kids a beast.
www.baseballauthority.wordpress.com
More fuel for the Nomar as PH fire: even with his putrid offensive season in total last season, his RISP numbers were still very good (.373/.443/.436).
What better time to have Nomar up than as a pinch hitter where Torre can pick and choose when to deploy his weapon.
And then a shot of Newt staring up at the window of the room he shared with his Mom, trying to be brave.
Val Kilmer, though, was excellent as Scull.
The guy is a singles machine.
He said if Pierre is in the lineup, he would probably bat first or second because he wants speed players at the top to distract the opposing pitcher
That all being said, it looks like all we have to look forward to is a few more weeks of just waiting for rehab updates and settling before arbitration stories until pitchers and catchers report.
http://tinyurl.com/2aavka
I liked what he said about Kershaw possibly being promoted.
Chin-Lung Hu 5.000
Andre Ethier 1.683
W. Betemit (37 NYY) 1.245
James Loney 1
Delwyn Young 0.917
Tony Abreu 0.9
Olmedo Saenz 0.679
Luis Gonzalez 0.667
M. Lieberthal 0.667
Mark Sweeney (76 SF) 0.655
N. Garciaparra 0.586
M. Anderson (43 NYM) 0.544
Jeff Kent 0.5
Andy LaRoche 0.333
Matt Kemp 0.311
R. Martinez 0.222
Brady Clark (21 SD) 0.2
Certainly not "compelling" evidence that PVLs outhit youngsters off the bench.
The A's will be playing in Fremont before Bud Selig steps down!
I think that is why you generally find that your best bench players are not aging players who have started most of their career nor young players who you project to be starters, rather there is a pool of guys who have made it a career to spot start and pinch hit and have made adjustments to their preparation to be ready when needed.
As for the mini camp video on the home page, it got me pumped for the season and for LaRoche's big opportunity. But did anyone else notice the stock music on the piece? Those funks tunes made me think Fred McGriff was going to show up at the end, endorsing the mini camp.
http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=95
219 Those funks tunes made me think Fred McGriff was going to show up at the end, endorsing the mini camp.
Wanna make me laugh? Tom Emanski/Fred McGriff reference works every time.
Or else he could have addressed Ned this way, "Ned, Jon Weisman of CNNSI.com, Daily Variety and [pause] Dodgerthoughts.com..."
From Josh R.'s Dodgers.com post:
Ned said he'd leave the lineups up to Torre, but when Jon Weisman from CNNSI.com/Daily Variety/Dodger Thoughts asked if it is possible that on Opening Day, the outfield could be Jones, Kemp and Ethier, Ned said that it wouldn't be out of the question.
New post up top, LAT - you beat the clock.
I hope and suspect he has some opinions he will confirm in sping training and eventually act upon. He may actually have the nerve to act in the D's best interest, which of course will also be his own. Bringing him in as a "celebrity" almost forces him to play the best team, and he is in no way yet part of a team story that must be preserved. So I pray. Every day.
>> Kemp has spent most of the off-season working out in Arizona and said he has lost 25 pounds since the end of the last season. <<
## Pierre has played in 434 consecutive games, the longest active streak in the major leagues. Whether that will be a consideration when drawing up the lineup, Torre said, will depend on a combination of what's best for the team and how much the streak means to Pierre. ##
http://tinyurl.com/25rpj2
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