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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

They're Droppin' Like Flies
2008-01-24 09:06
by Jon Weisman

Dave Collins, the manager of the Dodgers' Inland Empire A-ball team, has resigned, reports Ken Gurnick of

Update: From Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise: "John Valentin will manage the team after being named the team's hitting coach earlier this month. Rookie-level Ogden hitting coach Henry Cruz will take over Valentin's duties."

Which one of those two once played for the Dodgers? Careful - it was Cruz. There is an ex-Dodger of Valentinesque appellation, but it's Jose.

Cruz had 16 hits for the Dodgers in 1976, but seven of them were for extra-bases.

* * *

Dodger Thoughts commenter LAT went to a luncheon Wednesday at the stadium at which general manager Ned Colletti spoke. He filed this report.

Comments (163)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-01-24 09:30:39
1.   Brian Y
I wonder what the major deal Ned was talking about. A 10% possibility isn't much but I would love to know what he was thinking.

I hope he doesn't think like Sabean

But if Cain is up for grabs I would give up LaRoche, Kuo, and Loaiza for him.

2008-01-24 09:39:05
2.   dkminnick
I'd going to re-post the following comment from the previous thread, because I have the same questions and it got LAT'ed. Is Ft. Pierce a good lodging option for Dodgertown?

152. Disabled List
125 Thanks for the info. We're going cheap-o on the lodging accomodations, so it looks like we're gonna be staying in a motel. How's Fort Pierce? It seems to have a lot of inexpensive motels, and it's right in between Vero Beach and Port St. Lucie.
I am really pumped for this trip! I should've done this a long time ago.

2008-01-24 09:55:10
3.   Bob Timmermann
From what I can tell, being a minor league manager isn't all that great of a job unless you're a baseball lifer.

Collins has been around baseball a long time and has been a major league coach. I would think riding buses around the Cal League to exciting places like Adelanto, Lancaster, and Lake Elsinore probably gets old really fast.

2008-01-24 09:58:57
4.   kinbote
1 If I were a Giants fan, I would be looking for the nearest bridge. Not only is Cain supposedly being shopped, but P. Feliz was offered a two-deal--and he declined! P. Feliz's agent has brass ones, as they say.
2008-01-24 10:07:22
5.   Brian Y
2. I'm going to Vero Beach for a couple games early March. It should be fun. I can't wait to experience Dodgertown for the first and last time in my 27 years of existence.

4. If they are really shopping Matt Cain (which , by all intense purposes it looks as if they are doing, then I would be all over it. We already have a better 3B than Crede that I would give up in a heartbeat to give up for Cain and I love LaRoche.

2008-01-24 10:13:08
6.   regfairfield
5 They have to mean Lowry, Sanchez or Hennessey when they say a pitcher for Crede. I can't believe that even Sabean would consider that trade. Especially to a team that has absolutely no prospects to give in return.
2008-01-24 10:18:04
7.   GoBears
5. by all intense purposes

Good stuff.

2008-01-24 10:20:29
8.   GoBears
I too am appreciative of LAT's service to the community yesterday. That was interesting (in its filtered form - I can't imagine how tedious it must have been to actually be there).

My guess is that the "10% chance of a big deal" is akin to saying "I'm still working hard - not taking 2 months off." It's probably nothing.

2008-01-24 10:20:59
9.   berkowit28
5, 7. No feeble purposes here, no sirree.
2008-01-24 10:27:51
10.   Eric Stephen
Continuing yesterday's contract talk, here is the breakdown of James Shields' contract:

2008 - $1m
2009 - $1.5m
2010 - $2.5m (1st arb yr)
2011 - $4.25m (2nd arb yr)
2012 - $7m option; $2m buyout (3rd arb yr)
2013 - $9m option; $1.5m buyout (1st FA yr)
2014 - $12m option; $1m buyout (2nd FA yr)
Total - 4 yrs / $11.25m guaranteed

There are also escalators of up to $6.25m in 2012-14 based on IP, GS, and CYA voting, which could bring the total package to as much as 7/$43.5m.

I believe Shields' 2008 salary of $1m is the highest ever for someone with under two years service time, tied with Takashi Saito's $1m base salary last year. I haven't confirmed this, however. I was only going off an story on Ryan Howard that reported his $900k last season was the highest contract for such a player (when in fact Saito -- admittedly a special case -- made more).

2008-01-24 10:30:44
11.   regfairfield
10 If you let Saito in, then you have to consider people like Kaz Matsui making eight million in their second year.
2008-01-24 10:45:44
12.   silverwidow
Trading Cain/Lincecum (or both) could make them pretty good in a few years depending on the return. There's no way that happens, though.
2008-01-24 10:48:34
13.   Jon Weisman
Still out there:

2008-01-24 10:50:38
14.   Eric Stephen
You're right. I'm just shocked that James Shields of all people has the highest salary of a true under-2 service time player. Right place, right time, I guess.
2008-01-24 11:03:11
15.   Bob Timmermann
Is it finally the time that front offices realize that guys like Livan Hernandez really aren't all that good for the price they demand?
2008-01-24 11:09:58
16.   Dodgers49
13 In recent years, more clubs have decided to save money and give prospects a chance rather than overpay for mediocre veterans.


2008-01-24 11:23:33
17.   Disabled List just ranked every player on the Patriots and Giants from 1 to 106. This comes one day after they ranked every Super Bowl quarterback from 1 to 82.

We still have 10 days left until kickoff. Ugh.

2008-01-24 11:25:03
18.   Jim Hitchcock
Nice job, LAT.

And remember, if you buy the season tickets, we will come :)

2008-01-24 11:25:08
19.   regfairfield
16 He seems to be doing that this year.
2008-01-24 11:26:08
20.   fanerman
17 Most of the time I just pretend doesn't exist.
2008-01-24 11:33:26
21.   paranoidandroid
My guess on a major trade that would be on the back-burner but would be made if the price was right: Johann or Bedard.

We'd like to have a lefty in the rotation, and we'd like a front line stud too. For the right price, we'd take them for one year, but all of baseball is scared of a long term deal for either of these guys right now. We wouldn't/couldn't trade the farm for them. They'd have to take one major leaguer and a few second tier prospects, not likely the right price for the sellers.

End result: 10% chance of a big trade.

2008-01-24 11:38:23
22.   Dodgers49
>> However, the Chicago Tribune's Sam Smith suggested a new deal the other day in his NBA column, with the Lakers acquiring power forward Ben Wallace in exchange for center Kwame Brown and backup forward Vladimir Radmanovic.

Smith's reasoning was sound, although he acknowledged it was not based on anything he has heard from the Bulls, Lakers or any other league sources. <<

I suspect this is how many of our baseball trade rumors are hatched.

2008-01-24 11:40:45
23.   paranoidandroid
13 What could be holding up a Mark Sweeney deal? He can't be asking for more than 900K and I don't think he's looking for more than a one-year contract.

With spring training around the corner, I hope he knows how many months are in a calendar. I'm quite sure he learned last year that there are three outs in the bottom of the ninth, he could figure out a complicated item like a calendar by now, couldn't he?

2008-01-24 11:53:21
24.   old dodger fan
Don't we usually go with 12 pitchers starting sometime in May?

If we have 12 pitchers and 2 catchers plus Loney, Kent, Furcal, Nomar, LaRoche, Abreu, Either, Jones, Kemp, Pierre and Young (who I think is out of options) we have 25.

Who do you cut to add Sweeney?

2008-01-24 11:56:24
25.   regfairfield
24 I'd guess LaRoche is sitting in Vegas while Nomar plays third if we do get Sweeney.
2008-01-24 12:11:23
26.   paranoidandroid
I am the absolute biggest Delwyn fan on this site. Please realize that before someone makes an insensitive comment/post in response to this.

We are already counting on a lot of youngsters in major roles. We also have four outfielders, two who hit from the left side. We'll also have (according to Ned) LaRoche or Nomar on the bench, both hit from the right side.

I simply don't see Ned or even Torre going with Delwyn as a fifth outfielder who will be used primarily as a pinch hitter in pressure situations. I am quite convinced that Ned et. al would like that PVL on the bench hitting from the left side. If they believed Delwyn could be that guy, they wouldn't have sent him down last year to bring up Shea, and they wouldn't have traded for Sweeney right after releasing (and paying) Marlon Anderson.

LaRoche in AAA could change the Delwyn scenario, but right now, I think Delwyn looks like the odd man out because of his youth.

I don't think keeping or not keeping Delwyn is what is keeping the Sweeney deal from happening. It has to do with contract talks, or it's been implied that is the issue.

In this case, I hope I'm dead wrong. I want Delwyn to stay and get his shot here in LA. I just don't have any confidence it will actually happen.

2008-01-24 12:11:42
27.   Jim57
Abreu still has options. He could start the year at AAA if we sign Sweeney. If LaRoche takes care of business and wins the 3B job, we have Nomar to sub around the infield.
Sure wish we could unload Pierre. It would make things easier and improve the club.
2008-01-24 12:11:52
28.   Dodgers49
24 If LaRoche wins the 3rd base job the odd man out could be Abreu. I know many here don't think much on Nomar's defense but Torre remembers the Nomar he saw play for Boston and considers him a supersub possibility. We may see Nomar get in a few innings at 2nd base this spring.
2008-01-24 12:12:30
29.   D4P
Somehow, "Quantum of Solace" just doesn't have the same ring as a "Goldfinger" or "Octopussy".
2008-01-24 12:14:43
30.   regfairfield
28 I do not want to think about Nomar being a super utility guy. How is it that two years ago our bench consisted of nothing but shortstops, and now we don't have any.
2008-01-24 12:15:45
31.   silverwidow
Huge longshot: Ethier to Vegas. He would hate it, for sure, but it would save Delwyn.
2008-01-24 12:17:32
32.   D4P
How is it that two years ago our bench consisted of nothing but shortstops, and now we don't have any

Now we have three centerfielders (Jones, Kemp, and Repko).

2008-01-24 12:17:55
33.   regfairfield
26 I can't believe that we would just waive Delwyn. It's a bad move for so many different reasons. Even if Ned hated the guy, his love of depth would keep him from just having six outfielders on the 40 man.
2008-01-24 12:18:25
34.   regfairfield
32 How soon we forget Pierre.
2008-01-24 12:21:19
35.   fanerman
29 Ooh. Filming now and due by the holidays.
2008-01-24 12:21:39
36.   Jim57
We would not be having this discussion if Ned had not screwed up royaly by signing Pierre. And, I also do not consider him a legitimate center fielder. Or left fielder. He is the fly in the ointment.
2008-01-24 12:24:51
37.   fanerman
32 If "De" and "Fault" are the two greatest words in the English language, "Nial" must be the third.
2008-01-24 12:26:38
38.   CajunDodger
I could see Ned trying to solve this through a minor deal (the same way he brought in Brady Clark at the last minute with a surplus of middle relief to trade). I could see a Delwyn for (fill in left-handed PVL bullpen guy here).
2008-01-24 12:28:17
39.   Jon Weisman
If the team goes with 11 pitchers, starts LaRoche and and signs Sweeney, then the six-man bench on Opening Day would figure to be Sweeney, Young, Ethier, Garciaparra, Bennett and Abreu, wouldn't it? Am I missing someone? Repko and Hu in the minors.

If it's 12 pitchers, Abreu goes down if Nomar is on the bench. If Nomar starts, then perhaps LaRoche (or Abreu) goes down for a very short time.

I really think that barring a trade or just a noxious Spring Training, Young is a lock to make the team March 31, with or without Sweeney.

2008-01-24 12:30:55
40.   regfairfield
38 That wouldn't solve the we have to call up Xavier Paul when Repko gets hurt problem.
2008-01-24 12:32:57
41.   silverwidow
Pitching locks:



Two BP spots up for grabs.

2008-01-24 12:33:52
42.   regfairfield
41 I'd say Kuo is a lock since he's out of options. Yhency is probably the next guy in line.
2008-01-24 12:36:44
43.   JL25and3
21 Santana or Bedard for one ML player and a couple of B prospects? For only one year? Nothing close to a 10% chance of that happening.
2008-01-24 12:37:21
44.   silverwidow
42 If Kuo is on the team, he's the 5th starter. Loaiza to the pen.
2008-01-24 12:45:53
45.   Sam DC
I guess I'm the only person on the face of the interwebs that thinks "Quantum of Solace" is a pretty compelling title.
2008-01-24 12:48:56
46.   fanerman
45 I think it's pretty cool, too.
2008-01-24 12:53:41
47.   old dodger fan
41 You assume Schmidt is not ready. What if he is?



That's 11. If Brazoban is ready he's 12. That leaves Houlton, Hull, Stultz and everyone else in Vegas.

2008-01-24 13:01:04
48.   paranoidandroid
39 I really, really, really hope you are correct Jon.

I think we can go with 11 pitchers out of the gate. I just think that Abreu might get the nod over Delwyn if it came down to it.

I hope we learned from Cody Ross and Jayson Werth. I think I'm too invested in Delwyn to see this all clearly. I was convinced he'd never get a shot to stick with the Dodgers big club.

2008-01-24 13:03:27
49.   paranoidandroid
43 Agreed. I think we'd only make a deal if we came out of it smelling like roses. Not likely to happen. But if the price falls enough, we might take a bite.
2008-01-24 13:05:14
50.   Xeifrank
47. That would be a very good pitching staff from top to bottom. Hope it works out like that. Hope Guo and Schmidt are healthy. I think Guo is more likely to be healthy at the start of the season than Schmidt, but middway through the season, it's a tossup.
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-01-24 13:05:29
51.   Humma Kavula
From 13 : "Clark is so revered in the clubhouse, Derek Jeter calls him 'Mr. Clark.'"

We have reached the point that I am no longer surprised when Derek Jeter calls a teammate, manager, front-office executive, reporter, or anyone in baseball, "Mister." What I want to know is: who are the people Derek Jeter denies the honorific?

2008-01-24 13:05:49
52.   bhsportsguy
Baseball America's Top 30 Dodger Prospects
1. LHP Clayton Kershaw (20, AA)
2. 3B Andy LaRoche (24, MLB)
3. SS Chin-Lung Hu (24, AAA)
4. LHP Scott Elbert (22, AA)
5. 3B Blake DeWitt (22, AA)
6. RHP Chris Withrow (19, Rookie/Low A)
7. RHP James McDonald (23, AA)
8. RHP Jonathan Meloan (23, AAA)
9. OF Delwyn Young (25, MLB)
10. 3B Pedro Baez (19, Low A)
11. 3B Josh Bell (21, High A)
12. RHP Bryan Morris (21, Low A)
13. SS Ivan DeJesus Jr. (20, AA)
14. OF/1B Andrew Lambo (19, Rookie/Low A)
15. RHP Josh Wall (21, High A)
16. RHP Ramon Troncoso (25, AAA)
17. C Lucas May (23, AA)
18. LHP Greg Miller (23, AAA)
19. LHP James Adkins (22, High A/AA)
20. RHP Javy Guerra (22, AA)
21. RHP Mario Alvarez (23, AA)
22. RHP Justin Mller ((20, Low A)
23. OF Xavier Paul (23, AAA)
24. RHP Tim Sexton (20, High A)
25. C Carlos Santana (21, High A)
26. RHP Cory Wade (24, AA)
27. RHP Justin Orenduff (24, AAA)
28. 2B/SS/OF Preston Mattingly (20, Low A)
29. OF Alfredo Silverio (20, Low A)
30. LHP Geison Aguasviva (20, Low A)

Their age is listed as of 2008 Opening Day, location is where that player will most likely start in 2008.

Other notes, Dodger system ranked 6th (same as 2007 after 3 seasons being ranked No. 2) Kershaw appears on the cover of the book.

2008-01-24 13:07:21
53.   CanuckDodger
I think it is clear that the "major deal" that has a 10% chance of happening is Juan Pierre being traded.

And Young is guaranteed a roster spot. We're not getting Sweeney. Ned just doesn't like saying any young player is guaranteed anything, and makes a show of trying to sign vets so he doesn't appear to the media to be sitting on his hands doing nothing ("Hey, I'm working hard trying to bring in guys like Sweeney and Seanez, but their agents aren't playing ball.")

2008-01-24 13:08:36
54.   Ken Noe
51 "Hey you! Yeah, you at third base!"
2008-01-24 13:08:42
55.   standuptriple
I got Dave Collins' autograph at the first game I ever attended (he was an A). Still have it too.
2008-01-24 13:09:36
56.   Xeifrank
2) How can that be if this person you are alluding to doesn't even exist. Is the cover all black?
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 13:14:43
57.   silverwidow
52 Justin Orenduff has REALLY nosedived.
2008-01-24 13:16:34
58.   old dodger fan
55 I have a grand total of one MLB player autograph but it is a good one. Koufax. He is my all time favorite ball player.
2008-01-24 13:16:45
59.   Eric Stephen
Did you get the book already, or did you see the list online?
2008-01-24 13:19:46
60.   paranoidandroid
53 I hope you're correct also. An interesting perspective. I want to be wrong. Very wrong.

BTW, I don't think Jeter uses "Mr. Rodriguez" too often.

2008-01-24 13:21:11
61.   CanuckDodger
52 -- Aguasviva's making BA's Top 30 is the first time ever that a Dodger Dominican Summer League player who has yet to play in America has made it into the Prospect Handbook. I can't see him pencilled in for low A though, there are just too may pitchers competed for too few rotation slots.
2008-01-24 13:23:22
62.   bhsportsguy
59 Yes, I just got the book so I figured I was free to at least post the list.
2008-01-24 13:23:26
63.   JL25and3
48 I'd be very, very surprised if Torre decides to go with 11 pitchers. Generally, he's not sure if 12 is really enough.
2008-01-24 13:23:51
64.   CanuckDodger
For any Spanish speakers, am I correct in thinking that "Aguasviva" means "Water of life?"
2008-01-24 13:23:59
65.   Xeifrank
Any chance of the Dodgers still signing Rudy Seanez or has that ship already sailed?
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 13:25:08
66.   old dodger fan
With the difficulty we have of who to keep on the 25 man roster what is the strategy of inviting 17 NRI's, 10 of whom are pitchers, to camp?
2008-01-24 13:26:50
67.   Xeifrank
66. With half the team in China they may need some extra bodies for spring games??
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 13:29:01
68.   CanuckDodger
66 -- We have no obligation to put any NRI's in the majors, and they can sit in Triple A as insurance.
2008-01-24 13:30:19
69.   paranoidandroid
66 You might find the next Wilson Alvarez, Rudy Seanez, or someone like that I suppose.

There are a few guys that will take a AAA assignment and then we'll have a few veteran arms lingering around. Sturze, Faulkenbourg, guys like that can come up in September if we don't need them before.

We generally wouldn't block them if they could get a major league spot, but we have "depth". Or at least that has to be the incentive for us to bring them all in.

2008-01-24 13:30:23
70.   D4P
We have no obligation to put any NRI's in the majors, and they can sit in Triple A as insurance

NRI = Not Really Insurance

2008-01-24 13:34:33
71.   El Lay Dave
64 I think that is plural: waters of life. And that is a fantastic name; I am officially pulling for him.
2008-01-24 13:36:18
72.   CanuckDodger
70 -- Saito, Beimel, and Seanez all came to the Dodgers as NRI's.
2008-01-24 13:39:01
73.   old dodger fan
72 Panning for gold.
2008-01-24 13:44:02
74.   CanuckDodger
73 -- "Panning for gold" is a smart way to build a bullpen. That's how the Padres do it, and it is a lot better than trading young players for the likes of Baez and Carter, or giving out ridiculously over-priced contracts to "proven relievers."
2008-01-24 13:50:13
75.   bhsportsguy
52 13 players are new to this year's list, only 2 players (Loney & Abreu) "graduated" from the list (by getting enough AB to remove them from 2008 "Rookie" status. 10 players, who are still in Dodger system, were dropped beneath the top 30 and 1 (Wesley Wright) was drafted from the Dodgers in the last Rule V Draft.

Of the 13 new players, 6 were either drafted or signed in 2007 and 7 were in the system but not listed last year.

2008-01-24 13:51:05
76.   Eric Stephen
The dilemma: pay $30 to get the book now from Baseball America, or wait a week or two to pay $20 when its available on Amazon.
2008-01-24 13:52:32
77.   silverwidow
76 Mine should be arriving from Amazon in February.
2008-01-24 13:53:33
78.   Eric Stephen
I wonder where Kyle Blair and Alex White would rank on the list if they were signed.
2008-01-24 13:57:37
79.   underdog
73 Or, as in the case of the Scott Erickson and Tanyon Sturzes of the world, sifting through kitty litter.
2008-01-24 13:58:49
80.   paranoidandroid
What are the odds of Wright sticking with the Astros the whole year? Any chance we get him back?

I don't know what their bullpen looks like. We kept Houlton all year because we needed arms and we weren't going anywhere. If Houston is in it, can they afford to be patient with a very raw rookie all year?

Anyone think it is payback for taking DJ?

2008-01-24 13:59:30
81.   ToyCannon
Woo Hoo, hail in Sylmar.
2008-01-24 13:59:47
82.   paranoidandroid
79 Have no fear, Joe Mays is here!
2008-01-24 14:02:52
83.   Eric Stephen
I don't think Houston will be in contention all year, but then again maybe they will hover within 10 games or so of the division lead most of the year so maybe that is contention. My guess is Wesley Wright sticks with Houston.

And if they're worried about payback for losing Houlton, that franchise is in worse shape than I ever would have thought. :)

2008-01-24 14:04:28
84.   LAT
Whoo hoo. I made the front page.

13. From the Crasnick article: "Look at Shawn Green,'' one American League assistant GM said. "He's made $100 million in his career. Does he really want to take $850,000 and a minor league invite to go to camp and try to win a job?''

I know someone who is going to be very disappointed if he retires.

53. That wasn't the impression I got yesterday. I'm not sure Ned is as anxious to get rid of JP as we are. I think the major move is something he has in his mind that he would agree to but expects the other side won't go for it.

65. According to Ned he has lost interest. In discussing Rudy Seanez, Ned said when negations go on too long you ask yourself "what am I doing here" and you can "talk yourself out of a deal." That is what happened with Seanez's agent. Of course it may just be a negotiating ploy on Ned's part and he is still interested.

2008-01-24 14:07:57
85.   paranoidandroid
84 Count me as a Shawn Green fan. The Hebrew Hammer brought me lots of fun and pride. Of course, it was 2002 at the time.

I hope he goes out gracefully. I don't think he fits the plans of too many teams out there. Neither does LuGo. They have had similar seasons for the last few years.

2008-01-24 14:10:24
86.   kinbote
44 I honestly had not considered that. Kuo as 5th starter; Loaiza to the pen [or traded]; Schmidt on the DL. That would give us a lefty in the rotation. I'm officially on board. Where do I sign?
2008-01-24 14:11:17
87.   LAT
Two other things I forgot to mention:

Ned was asked about re-signing Lowe. He said he would wait and see and it depended how much Lowe wanted to stay with the Dodgers. He acknowledged that Lowe was going to be asking for a huge contract. My take: Lowe is not the type of guy Ned is going to hand a long term, big money contract to. There would have to be a discount to stay in LA for Ned to bite.

Ned's comments on Yhancy. Paraphrasing: "I don't know. For the last two years he has been injured and he has had "occasional" [sarcastic] problems staying in shape." I didn't get the impression Yhancy was someone Ned had a lot of faith in.

2008-01-24 14:12:41
88.   Daniel Zappala
52 Two hours after you posted that, Dodger Thoughts is now the #4 Google hit for "Geison Aguasviva".
2008-01-24 14:14:12
89.   LAT
85. The Hebrew Hammer

I love that. That's great. From this point forward, let it be written. Let it be done.

2008-01-24 14:16:52
90.   Daniel Zappala
Count me amazed if Yhency Brazoban makes the team.
2008-01-24 14:17:52
91.   Eric Enders
After the legendary pennant race of 2012, fans thirty years from now will still be singing "The Bison-Geison Hallelujah Twist."
2008-01-24 14:19:11
92.   berkowit28
75 So Kemp wasn't on last year's list? Why was that?
2008-01-24 14:19:17
93.   Jon Weisman
Diamond Leung says John Valentin is replacing Dave Collins. Henry Cruz will move up from Ogden to be hitting coach.

True or false: Henry Cruz is an Old Friend.

2008-01-24 14:19:46
94.   silverwidow
92 Too many major league ABs in 2006.
2008-01-24 14:20:32
95.   swood
I don't think this was the right year to go to China. We have a new manager, new coaches and alot of new personell. The week you lose from the spring from this can only hurt. I hope Torre can get a good fell for the players in 3 weeks(instead of 4).
2008-01-24 14:21:57
96.   bhsportsguy
92 Kemp had reached the at bat limit that Baseball America (and other analysts and publications use) as their cutoff for these type of lists.
2008-01-24 14:23:02
97.   Disabled List
Shawn Green was a fine Dodger who played through pain, gave the team some of the best seasons in franchise history, had the greatest single-game offensive performance in baseball history, and was an island of class during the classless Fox years. Hearing him booed at Dodger Stadium was almost (but not quite) as bad as hearing Mike Piazza being booed.

Both events contributed greatly to my current disdain for the unwashed masses that have been inhabiting the Stadium of late.

2008-01-24 14:25:45
98.   regfairfield
89 I guess Joltin' Jew is falling out of favor.
2008-01-24 14:25:48
99.   Jim Hitchcock
PBS used a picture of Shawn Green in `The Jewish Americans' last night. Thought that was kind of neat.

LAT, your daughter's still not over Green? :)

2008-01-24 14:26:27
100.   bhsportsguy
92 130 career at bats (not plate appearances) for position players and 50 career innings pitched for pitchers are the cut-offs for these types of list.

This is why Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus also adds to his list a "24 and younger" summary regardless of MLB/minor league experience.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-01-24 14:27:56
101.   ToyCannon
If he is the Henry Cruz I remember I saw him hit two home runs in the same game. I'm sure that was the highlight of his career.

John Valentin was the Boston SS when Nomar came up and he threw a hissy fit when told he was going to be the 3rd baseman and Nomar the SS.

2008-01-24 14:28:46
102.   kinbote
I've ordered the B.A. Prospect Handbook, but could someone provide a brief description of #19 James Adkins? I admit he's little more than a name to me.
2008-01-24 14:30:44
103.   ToyCannon
I've also heard plenty of boo's coming from the washed masses.
2008-01-24 14:32:20
104.   underdog
98 That's my nickname. :-)

102 Adkins is one of my personal favorite prospects for no logical reason other than that I saw him pitch (on TV) a couple of college games - he was a great reliever at the University of Tennessee.

2008-01-24 14:32:36
105.   Jon Weisman
101 - They'll reunite by July, when Valentin becomes the Dodgers' major league hitting coach.
2008-01-24 14:32:43
106.   Eric Enders
97 While I largely agree with you, Green did kill the team by stupidly playing hurt for the better part of a season. It's not as if there was no reason to be frustrated with him.
2008-01-24 14:32:49
107.   Jim Hitchcock
103 Booing is for wussy boys.
2008-01-24 14:33:15
108.   ToyCannon
College Lefty that we acquired with the Lugo pick. Is currently a starter but many expect him to become a bullpen pitcher. Is supposed to move fast coming out of college.

Withrow at 6 just bugs me considering how little he's pitched.

2008-01-24 14:33:21
109.   CanuckDodger
Baseball America has an article on "sources" of talent for minor league systems, breaking down where the players came from who are in the new Prospect Handbook by organization. They have categories like High School, College, Junior College, Foreign Signings, Draft-and-Follow, and Trades. This is how the Dodgers Top 30 breaks down:

HS -- 13
C -- 4
JC -- 5
FS -- 7
D/F -- 1
T -- 0

We tied with the Royals for second most HS draftees, behind the Angels, who have 14.

We have the second fewest college draftees, trailing the Angels and Braves, who tied with 3. Meloan is our only college player in our top 18. Oakland had the most college players, at 18.

We led all teams in junior college draftes.

2008-01-24 14:35:37
110.   ToyCannon
Pedroza gets no love. Not even a top 30 but my man Carlos Santana is still showing signs of life. It would appear that Andrew was indeed the last person on the Bridger Hunt train.
2008-01-24 14:36:12
111.   regfairfield
109 Out of curiosity, where did the nine prospects they just acquire come from?
2008-01-24 14:36:15
112.   LAT
99. Nope and I hope she never is. Our first sports icon is always our favorite, no matter the age. I hope the Hebrew Hammer does'nt retire just so I can get her to more games this year.
2008-01-24 14:37:50
113.   ToyCannon
I count 6 international signings. Who did I miss?
Hu, Baez, Troncoso, Santana, Silverio, Aguasviva
2008-01-24 14:39:50
114.   Eric Enders
Valentin, in fact, went AWOL from Red Sox camp for two days in 1997 when he found out he lost his job to Nomar. He was fined $500.
2008-01-24 14:39:54
115.   CanuckDodger
113 -- Mario Alvarez.
2008-01-24 14:40:55
116.   regfairfield
110 I think it was just me and Nate before.
2008-01-24 14:42:06
117.   ToyCannon
Yup, not exactly a team player. Until that little incident I always liked him as a player.

Thanks, I still have a hard time picturing him as a viable prospect.

2008-01-24 14:44:36
118.   bhsportsguy
110 He was mentioned as a sleeper pick, also Austin Gallagher wasn't on the list, maybe they thought 4 thirdbasemen were enough.

Canuck, do you think Mattingly deserved to be in the top 30 again?

2008-01-24 14:45:24
119.   ToyCannon
I'll drive the Pedroza train but I'm sure it is headed for damaged trestle that I can't see from the caboose.
Here's to hoping everyone is wrong.
2008-01-24 14:46:41
120.   ToyCannon
Which one? Hunt, Pedroza, Santana or should I just wait to read my book?
2008-01-24 14:48:32
121.   CanuckDodger
111 -- The Oakland trades happened after the Prospect Handbook was finished so those players aren't counted in Oakland's total, where they would have been counted under "trades" anyway.
2008-01-24 14:50:13
122.   kinbote
104 108 Thanks. Was Adkins the one Canuck was so steamed about on draft day? :)

Oh, and thank goodness Juan Rivera was finally dropped.

2008-01-24 14:53:05
123.   underdog
Ah, cool. Guess what's coming out in March? Just in time for our 20th anniversary celebration.

Hopefully we can celebrate a 20th anniversary in 2028, too.

2008-01-24 14:54:53
124.   CanuckDodger
118 -- Mattingly ranks #28 on the latest version of my own list and that's where BA ranks him. If one were just ranking 2007 performance, Mattingly wouldn't make a Top 75 list, but his tools and pedigree are enough to keep him on a Top 30 list -- this time. If Mattingly doesn't make big progress in 2008, he's not making next year's list -- not mine, and probably not BA's either.
2008-01-24 14:56:28
125.   CanuckDodger
122 -- Yeah, the Adkins pick really bugged me. Still does, but not as much.
2008-01-24 15:01:26
126.   bhsportsguy
120 Santana is still on the list, he dropped 2 spots from last year.

Pedroza was noted as a sleeper, Hunt is fourth on the LF depth chart, behind Lambo, Mattingly, Raglani and ahead of Van Slyke and Locke.

2008-01-24 15:01:38
127.   Eric Enders
Wasting a sandwich on a LOOGY bugs me too. (Eww, that sounds gross.) But at least Adkins looks like he'll be a pretty good LOOGY.
2008-01-24 15:03:47
128.   silverwidow
Any ideas why Orenduff is so low? He had a decent year.
2008-01-24 15:05:12
129.   CajunDodger
When we drafted him I wondered about him taking this route rather than going to college/juco. $1 million is hard to turn down I guess.

Have they even figured out where he will end up defensively? He seems to have no home from the scouting reports that I have seen.

2008-01-24 15:06:59
130.   underdog
Maybe Donnie Baseball can spend most of his consulting time working with his son. Can't hurt!
2008-01-24 15:09:08
131.   berkowit28
100 I really didn't recall Kemp having so many more AB (154) than Loney (102) in 2006. In fact he played in only 4 more games (52 vs. 48), so must have started more or come in earlier. 29 Kemp appearances in CF (those were the days, pre-Pierre; Lofton would sit sometimes). While Nomar was still in his near-prime so Loney did not get in so often.
2008-01-24 15:12:54
132.   bhsportsguy
52 4 of the writers/editors of the handbook put out their Top 50 prospect lists in the beginning of the book.

Kershaw was named from 5th to 9th in those 4 lists. However, opinions were mixed on Andy LaRoche, he was ranked 13th, 24th, 41st and 48th in those writers' respective lists. Mixed maybe too strong a word because he did make the top 50 in each list but I am just reporting what I see. Hu was named on two lists, no other Dodger made those lists.

2008-01-24 15:13:26
133.   CanuckDodger
128 -- I think it has been reported that Orenduff's slider isn't as good as it used to be, and that was his bread-and-butter pitch, since his fastball has never been better than average. Orenduff is also getting on in years. He turns 25 in May, and who knows when he'll sniff the majors.
2008-01-24 15:16:09
134.   bhsportsguy
128 Also, 2007 was a pretty good year in terms of adding depth to the system (almost 1/4 of the list comes from last year's signings).
2008-01-24 15:18:38
135.   CanuckDodger
129 -- Yeah, Mattingly doesn't have a defensive home. He'll probably end up a weak-armed left-fielder, and you have to hit an awful lot to make it in the majors as that, unless your name is "Juan Pierre."
2008-01-24 15:20:10
136.   CajunDodger
I wonder what Logan will give us with our 15 pick this year. Another HS pitcher I would assume.
2008-01-24 15:21:31
137.   CajunDodger
I really hope that I am wrong, but unless something drastic happens this year, I can't see him going too far. Maybe he will be the new manager when Torre retires...
2008-01-24 15:25:10
138.   Eric Enders
136 He really needs to start drafting outfielders (and real ones, not move-to-1B Lambo types). That's been a system weakness for a while now, and appears to only continue to get weaker.
2008-01-24 15:36:19
139.   underdog
138 I agree. Isaac Galloway or Aaron Hicks sure would be nice, but drafting at #15 I'm assuming they'll both be gone by then. Who else would be good OF pick at 15?
2008-01-24 15:39:27
140.   CajunDodger
I wonder what Mr. White's philosophy on prospects is. We tend to draft:

1. Guys who are signable to deals that are at slot value (Hocheaver excluded)

2. Almost exclusively HS pitchers

3. Positional prospects tend to be toolsy guys who are underrated based on their draft position.

4. Always draft pitchers in the first round.

2008-01-24 15:41:24
141.   silverwidow
140 Guys with power pitcher frames (Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw)
2008-01-24 15:43:25
142.   CanuckDodger
138 -- Galloway and Hicks could still be available at #15, but Hicks might be drafted as a pitcher. White obviously shies away from drafting OF's early, and there's no reason to suppose that will change. I think White will draft HS LHP Jarret Martin at #15 this year. He just screams Logan White first rounder.
2008-01-24 15:44:15
143.   El Lay Dave
Henry Cruz is one of the ten MLB players to have been born in the Virgin Islands. Three played for the Dodgers, the others being Jose Morales and Al McBean. (His birthplace is what jumped out at me when I followed Jon's link to his B-R page.)

I remember Al McBean's 1970 baseball card stating that he was called "Gay Blade" because of his fashion sense.

2008-01-24 15:49:24
144.   underdog
142 - Probably true. Given White's usual modus operandi, the best we could hope for is a good OF-er in the 2nd round, perhaps.
2008-01-24 15:50:59
145.   Eric Enders
Incidentally, I find it amusing that although White is no longer the scouting director, we're having this discussion assuming that it's still him and him alone who's making the picks.
2008-01-24 15:53:14
146.   CajunDodger
After having no real LHP prospects in the early 2000s, we really have stocked up with some quality guys, haven't we?

Kuo, Elbert, Kershaw, Miller, Adkins, and maybe another this year.

2008-01-24 15:53:44
147.   underdog
True. This will be a good test case to see. If an OFer is picked in the first round, that will prove it's not only his call anymore. I'll believe it when I see it, though.
2008-01-24 15:53:57
148.   CajunDodger
Would DeJon Watson have his hand in the draft?
2008-01-24 15:57:07
149.   silverwidow
148 No, Tim Hallgren (official scouting director).
2008-01-24 16:02:55
150.   CanuckDodger
145 -- When White was promoted and Hallgren was given the Scouting Director title Colletti was quoted as saying that White would remain "in charge of the draft." While White no doubt confers with his colleagues, I am sure White still has final say, and I suspect he would be most involved right at the top of the draft, when players are taken would White has personally seen.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-01-24 16:05:45
151.   CanuckDodger
148 -- No, the player development people stay on their side of the fence. Bringing in the talent is the scouting department's job, and player development works with what the scouting department gives them. Neither department likes anybody from the other stepping on their toes.
2008-01-24 16:07:17
152.   CanuckDodger
150 -- That's "...whom White has personally seen."
2008-01-24 16:17:05
153.   Eric Enders
151 While that is all true, one would think that mature adults would welcome knowledgeable opinions, and Watson did used to be a scouting director himself.
2008-01-24 16:20:49
154.   CajunDodger
One would think....
I probably should not be so cynical since Logan has done such a good job since he has been here.
2008-01-24 16:33:50
155.   CanuckDodger
153 -- Oh, I'm sure there are conversations, but let's put it this way: If DeJon Watson tried telling Logan White who to draft (not that he would), I'm sure White would take that as meddling. And if White tried telling Watson where prospects should be assigned, and when they should be promoted to the next level, I'm sure Watson would take that as meddling. Nobody wants anybody else telling them how to do their job, especially when the other person is in a different department of the same company.
2008-01-24 16:38:07
156.   Gagne55
140 High school pitchers? Toolsy position players? Beane laughs at us. lol
2008-01-24 16:47:55
157.   El Lay Dave
156 The Dodgers have the revenue streams to afford to take the chances that Billy Beane cannot. If none of the high school pitchers pan out, sign pricey free agents to fill the gaps; the pitchers that do could be big-time studs. Beane needs a more guaranteed return.

It will be interesting to see what Beane does if/when the new stadium creates highly increased revenue streams that he can leverage to his advantage. The new location is clearly an attempt to generate more revenue from the South Bay, for example.

2008-01-24 16:51:02
158.   CanuckDodger
156 -- I know you are being facetious, but seriously, I don't think Beane was laughing when he had to trade his best big league pitcher and his best big league position player to replenish an A's farm system that went to seed thanks to bad A's drafts. And even after those trades, the A's system still isn't as good as ours. BA ranked us #6, and Jim Callis says that after the trades the A's have made they would rank #10, up from the #27 they ranked in the Prospect Handbook.
2008-01-24 16:51:10
159.   El Lay Dave
155 That is definitely how it works in the real world. One does seek out the advice of recognized experts, but on specific items or questions; rarely does one welcome constant input from someone outside one's own domain.
2008-01-24 16:52:24
160.   Jon Weisman
2008-01-24 16:57:41
161.   underdog
158 Thanks, you said it better than I could in response. I think White just as easily could be laughing at Beane.
2008-01-24 17:00:52
162.   Bluebleeder87
So I had a vasectomy today, the procedure feels like your getting punched in the family jewels, aside from that it was great.
2008-01-24 23:39:29
163.   Jim57
Greene gave us one good year on his 5 year deal. We were lucky to unload him. If we could get so lucky with Pierre, it would be a miracle.

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