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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Pinch Me, I'm Dreaming
2008-01-31 09:03
by Jon Weisman

Most pinch-hitting appearances in Los Angeles Dodger history: Dave Hansen tops the list with 539. Scroll down enough, though, and you'll see Fernando Valenzuela with 15!

And for good measure ... most times reaching base as a pinch-hitter in Los Angeles Dodger history.

Update: Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus will host a chat about the site's newly released Top 100 Prospects list at 10 a.m.

On the list from the Dodgers:

5) Clayton Kershaw
14) Andy LaRoche
32) Chin-Lung Hu
66) Scott Elbert

That's it.

Update 2: Keith Law of also came out with a Top 100 list today. From the Dodgers:

6) Clayton Kershaw
25) Andy LaRoche
50) Chin-Lung Hu
52) James McDonald
86) Chris Withrow

Comments (464)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-01-31 09:12:55
1.   CajunDodger
From last post:

ToyCannon, I tried to post this on TrueBlue, but my computer stinks. I am interested in three tix. Email?

Where is the best place to get BABIP #s?

2008-01-31 09:15:40
2.   old dodger fan
Drysdale had 25.
2008-01-31 09:18:12
3.   old dodger fan
1 Maybe it's time to scrap the TRS-80.
2008-01-31 09:20:07
4.   CajunDodger
Ahhh, if it were only that easy. It's a new work computer that absolutely hates me. It's like an ex-girlfriend imaged it for me...
2008-01-31 09:23:53
5.   Jon Weisman
3 - You're confusing him with CanuckDodger, I think.
2008-01-31 09:24:44
6.   ToyCannon
Speaking of Canuck.
BP put out their top 100 prospects today. Dodgers who made the cut:
Chin-Lung Hu(32)
McDonald does not make the list. He is really flying under the radar.
No Meloan is the biggest surprise.
2008-01-31 09:25:28
7.   kngoworld
Just read on mlb trade rumors that Gonzo signed with the Marlins. They claim that leaves us with a "sandwich pick" in the draft for his type B status. Not bad for losing something we did not want.
2008-01-31 09:26:14
8.   berkowit28
There are links for each player to their BR page, but the individual BR pages do not list pinch hits. Where does that come from?

Marlon Anderson is listed as having only 8 times reached base as a pinch hitter. (Follow Jon's second link above.) Does that sound right to you? In 2006 alone, he hit 7 home runs. Do home runs not count as "reaching base"? (Pretty silly, if true.) Did he really hit most of those home runs, and much else, as a starting position player? Doesn't sound right to me.

2008-01-31 09:27:23
9.   Humma Kavula
7 Did the Dodgers offer Gonzalez arbitration?
2008-01-31 09:27:32
10.   ToyCannon
Contact me at

Put Dodger/Boston in the subject line. Until I have the tickets in hand I won't require payment.

2008-01-31 09:28:29
11.   CajunDodger
Cajuns and Canucks can often be confused in a pack of otherwise different Dodger commenters. Cajuns just originated in Nova Scotia, while Canucks come from a place a couple hundred miles westward.
2008-01-31 09:28:31
12.   Humma Kavula
8 Sounds right to me. Anderson got a lot of starts in LF as Ethier started to fade down the stretch.
2008-01-31 09:28:54
13.   silverwidow
Did the Dodgers offer Gonzalez arbitration?


2008-01-31 09:29:04
14.   ToyCannon
Yes, he started most of the games in Sept instead of Ethier. He was traded for to be a pinch hitter but we all know he became so much more. If only Mark Sweeney had the same magic.
2008-01-31 09:29:32
15.   Humma Kavula
13 I didn't think so. No arbitration, no draft picks -- is that right? Or am I confused?
2008-01-31 09:29:37
16.   Jacob L
8 I think that's right. Merlin pretty much took over right field from a badly slumping Ethier down the stretch in 06.

10 Toy did I miss something? Are you offering to get tix for the 3/29 game for folks? If so, I want in.

2008-01-31 09:29:55
17.   old dodger fan
7 I thought you only got a pick if you offer the player arbitration and he turn you down. Am I wrong again?
2008-01-31 09:30:50
18.   kngoworld
15 17 Thats the impression I was under, but I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
2008-01-31 09:31:01
19.   silverwidow
No arb, no picks.
2008-01-31 09:31:54
20.   ToyCannon
Names I didn't expect to see in the top 10 of your list.
Duke Snider
Chris Gywnn - he got on base?
2008-01-31 09:32:01
21.   CajunDodger
Will do...
2008-01-31 09:36:15
22.   ToyCannon
2008-01-31 09:37:04
23.   kngoworld
This article from USA Today claims the Dodgers declined to offer Gonzo arb.

Darn MLB Trade Rumors for bringing me some false joy in relation to Luis Gonzalez.

Sorry community for posting something without double fact checking.

2008-01-31 09:38:27
24.   fanerman
23 Getting rid of Gonzo for good is victory enough.
2008-01-31 09:39:47
25.   natepurcell
Did Goldstein come out with his Dodgers top 11 yet?
2008-01-31 09:45:52
26.   ToyCannon
No, it was due yesterday but I guess the Twin trade shot it down, now he's doing the top 100 chat in about 12 minutes. I was hoping he'd have us done before the chat.
You surprised that Meloan was not on the list?
2008-01-31 09:47:45
27.   natepurcell

Not really. I'm more surprised McDonald wasn't though.

I think Neftali Feliz at 30 is ridiculous and Gerrado Parra at 64 isn't so hot either.

2008-01-31 09:48:42
28.   old dodger fan
The list puts Carlos Gomes at #65 and Deolis Guerra at #79. It lists them both as Twins.
2008-01-31 09:48:51
29.   cargill06
has laroche always been ahead of headley? i always remember hearing more about chase
2008-01-31 09:49:55
30.   Andrew Shimmin
1- I use:

for BABIP numbers.

2008-01-31 09:50:36
31.   natepurcell

Chase broke out this year. Laroche has performed for numerous years.

2008-01-31 09:55:05
32.   ToyCannon

Chase can only dream about Andy's power.

2008-01-31 09:55:56
33.   ToyCannon
Or to put it another way:
Mr. Headley can only chase the dream that is Andy's power.
2008-01-31 09:59:41
34.   old dodger fan
How have the "BP Top 100" fared in the past? Can I access the 2003 or 2004 list without subscribing?
2008-01-31 10:01:39
35.   silverwidow
Jacob McGee at 40 is too low. He's not that far away from Kershaw in terms of top LHP in the minors.
2008-01-31 10:03:51
36.   Andrew Shimmin
Here's last year's. Can't tell if it's free, or not. Looks like it was the first one.

2008-01-31 10:05:42
37.   underdog
33 That's "Hedy!" No, wait, Headley.

I'd always thought Lenny Harris was higher on the Dodgers' PH appearance and on base list than he actually is. Dave Hansen was the closest to "money" of any Dodger PH I've ever seen.

2008-01-31 10:06:32
38.   ToyCannon
I've seen varied reports on McGee being able to handle being a starter. As of now he just rears back and throws ala Zumaya. The McGee/Davis debate is great. I'm going with Davis and it will be curious to see why he put McGee 40th. I do agree that it is to low.

Keith Law loves Truinfel but no one else seems to. I'm betting that Law is right and that he will prove it this year.

2008-01-31 10:08:01
39.   Andrew Shimmin
Ah. Reading the first sentence (just the first seven words suffice), it's clear that 2007 was the first list. At least it was Goldstein's first list.
2008-01-31 10:10:32
40.   bhsportsguy
36 The list is free, any analysis is subscribser only.

34 You can do a search on the site, it will come up with articles, some free, some not, the 2001-2003 list are there as is some articles about 2004, Kevin Goldstein joined BP in 2006/2007, that is when they expanded the list to 100.

Ahh, 2003, its arguable that when under Honorable Mention you have David Wright, Prince Fielder and James Loney, you realize its a lot of speculation. An old friend was the No. 7 prospect according to BP that year.

2008-01-31 10:11:15
41.   bhsportsguy
39 Goldstein was previously at Baseball America prior to moving to BP.
2008-01-31 10:17:31
42.   Jon Weisman
I'm a little torn about "Lost" chat tonight. I'd like to drive people over to Season Pass at Variety, to try to build the community over there, but I realize not everyone wants to go there. For those who will want to talk "Lost" tonight, what are your thoughts?
2008-01-31 10:18:41
43.   fanerman
42 Are you talking about post-game or in-game?
2008-01-31 10:19:55
44.   Jon Weisman
Coincidence that Keith Law came out with his Top 100 list today also?

2008-01-31 10:21:42
45.   Jon Weisman
43 - Good question. I was thinking of having in-game at Screen Jam, then postgame at Season Pass. But wouldn't that be too awkward?

Maybe the answer is to have an open chat thread at Season Pass, then a postgame chat thread at Season Pass as well.

I'm sure I'm over thinking this - the simplest thing would be to keep everything at Screen Jam - but it behooves me to get people over to the other site.

2008-01-31 10:22:54
46.   Xeifrank
42. What's Lost chat?
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 10:24:28
47.   Ken Noe
Yet another reason to question Rosenthal's competency: "Gonzalez, 40, is expected to fill a combination of roles, including left field and first base, and serve as a mentor for the Marlins' younger players." Pity the guppies.
2008-01-31 10:24:48
48.   CajunDodger

It sure would have been nice to have a sandwich pick for LuGo. That way we could have had an outfielder in the top 40 or so picks. I love Logan, but it sure would be nice to see our first pick be a position player, especially an outfielder with a high ceiling.

2008-01-31 10:28:34
49.   bhsportsguy
44 For those without subscriptions:
6. Clayton Kershaw
25. Andy LaRoche
50. Chin-Lung Hu
52. James McDonald
84. Chris Withrow

Reading between and not so between the lines, Law thinks the Dodgers should take it slower with Kershaw (pitch a full season at AA and watch his IP), give Andy the job on day 1 of ST, if Hu hits at all, he could become an All-Star caliber SS because he can really pick it, McDonald could be a real surprise especially if he can get a tighter rotation on his curve ball, and Withrow could be a Logan White legacy because of his success with Chad and Clayton (I think Elbert fits here too but Law thinks the Dodgers rushed Scott, especially in 2006)

2008-01-31 10:31:42
50.   bhsportsguy
48 One thing you have to remember, even more rare than a number one starter in the draft is to find a projectionable outfielder because the combination of speed, power and the figuring out if he can hit advanced pitching is just really hard.

I do think that is why White has tended to pick pitchers in the first round (outside of Loney, that is what he has done, Chad, Scott Elbert, Clayton Kershaw and Chris Withrow) And he has been really successful in doing that.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-01-31 10:32:51
51.   underdog
Hey, speaking of which, I will be co-hosting an Oscar night chat, with guest film bloggers contributing snarky comments and lots of other fun folks. Plus polls, trivia, some funny pictures. I will alert y'all again when it gets closer. (Assuming there IS an Oscars this year.)

But I was thinking of doing a trial chat soon to try and test the software out. It's really easy and fun "live blogging" interface. Anyone have interest in jumping into a Super Bowl chat on Sunday? Might keep the BT servers from overloading. ;-) I'd suggest it for "Lost" tonight instead but don't want to steal people away from Variety and/or SJ.

2008-01-31 10:33:02
52.   fanerman
46 Lost is a fictional TV show about the survivors of a plane crash who are stranded on a mysterious tropical island where weird things happen.
2008-01-31 10:34:13
53.   D4P
Do they make radios out of coconuts?
2008-01-31 10:35:49
54.   fanerman
50 It seems like a good idea to stick with what he's good at. Also, if I had to choose between finding pitching or hitting through free agency, it seems like hitting is safer and/or easier, given the injury risk of pitchersg.
2008-01-31 10:36:46
55.   fanerman
53 Their main source of radios is from suspicious parachutists who also crash land on the island and may or may not be trying to rescue them.
2008-01-31 10:37:08
56.   ToyCannon

Paolo (Tempe, AZ): Keith, what do you make of the Dodgers moving Meloan back to starting pitching? How do you think he'll pan out?

Keith Law: (1:34 PM ET ) I haven't heard that they are doing that, and if so, they might as well as him to stick his arm in the wood-chipper. The injury risk is the same either way.

2008-01-31 10:39:33
57.   underdog
56 - Why does he say that about Meloan and not any of the other pitchers going back to starting? Is Meloan particularly brittle?
2008-01-31 10:41:50
58.   ToyCannon
He doesn't post to the public and then send me a private email explaining why he said it.
2008-01-31 10:43:20
59.   ToyCannon
Wow that came across snarky. My apologies.
2008-01-31 10:44:26
60.   fanerman
58 Really? Someone's getting shafted. Sigh, I'll have my assistant speed dial him and find out what he really meant.
2008-01-31 10:47:08
61.   kngoworld
Im on the west coast and many others here are on the west coast, but there are people in other time zones. How does that affect the in-game chat thread?
2008-01-31 10:47:47
62.   bhsportsguy
58 Are you saying that you got a private e-mail from Keith Law explaining his response about Meloan?
2008-01-31 10:48:09
63.   Jon Weisman
61 - All my TV chat is based on West Coast airing times. So you can't talk about something that hasn't aired on the West Coast.
2008-01-31 10:49:28
64.   Xeifrank
52. Ok, thanks! Is someone getting voted off the island tonight? vr, Xei
2008-01-31 10:50:45
65.   ToyCannon
You're kidding right?
2008-01-31 10:52:13
66.   kngoworld
63 That is what I figured. I have no problem with moving around a little from site to site to chat about the episode. Just as long as you let us know where to be and at what time. I will bring the salsa, freshly made with ripe tomatoes.
2008-01-31 10:52:17
67.   underdog
58 I was just wondering aloud anyway. Or being slightly facetious. It just seemed like an odd comment for Law to make. But maybe there's something about Meloan I don't know.
2008-01-31 10:54:28
68.   bhsportsguy
65 Okay, now I get it. Although I have had some private email responses from BP guys in the past so its no beyond the realm of possibility.
2008-01-31 10:54:50
69.   ToyCannon
Law is a jerk when he makes negative comments about Dodger prospects that I like. He's awesome when he makes optimistic comments about Dodger prospects that I like. I'm still very shallow.
2008-01-31 10:56:00
70.   bhsportsguy
I will say this too, similar to what happened to Sickels when he did his Red Sox rankings, Red Sox nation gets after those who dare to not see their guys in the same light they do.
2008-01-31 10:57:48
71.   ToyCannon
Teaser on Withrow from Law:
"Keep an eye on this one. Withrow pitched all spring with an average fastball (88-91 mph) and a fringe-average curve with good depth but an early break, but his velocity rose after his move to pro ball. He has some projection left and has a great delivery with a quick, explosive move toward the plate. And after the success of Chad Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw to date, the Dodgers get a little extra credit on first-round arms."
2008-01-31 11:02:38
72.   CajunDodger
I have seen videos of him, and his delivery seems like a guy that could pitch 200 innings plus for a really long time. I see him being for the Dodgers what Rich Hill has become for the Cubs.

Solid #2-3 that seems like he could pitch three times per week.

2008-01-31 11:04:48
73.   ToyCannon
Plus the fact that Luke Hochevar did not make Law's list also puts a smile on my face. At this point the great mistake as I called it, is turning out better and better.
2008-01-31 11:08:46
74.   fanerman
64 Tonight is the 4th season premiere. It's not a reality TV show, so people don't get "voted off" (like in the TV show "Survivor"). However, many main characters have died throughout the show's run.

The basic plot is supposedly planned out for the show's entire run, so the show plays like a big mini-series/movie. The story generally moves forward as the characters get closer to leaving the island and discovering all of the island's secrets, but the show also has the habit of bringing up more questions than it answers. Viewers either get more intrigued to keep watching and more annoyed by the never-ending mystery.

2008-01-31 11:13:54
75.   cargill06
56 have you seen his delievery? my arm hurts to watch it.
2008-01-31 11:14:11
76.   Jon Weisman
From ITD: "And finally, two more non-roster invites are on board and both are from our minor league system. A.J. Ellis will be back in big league camp this spring, as will fellow catcher Gabriel Gutierrez."
2008-01-31 11:15:17
77.   bhsportsguy
76 Makes sense since Russell can't catch every pitcher in camp.
2008-01-31 11:17:16
78.   Jon Weisman
greg (toronto): If you look into your crystalball, who do you think will be your top prospect for next year?

Kevin Goldstein: Clayton Kershaw.

2008-01-31 11:19:01
79.   Jon Weisman
James McDonald (LA): What is it about my skills that kept me off your list?

Kevin Goldstein: You're on the spreadsheet, if that's any consolation. I think the velo is what kept you off.

2008-01-31 11:19:31
80.   CajunDodger
I have been in and out, so I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but why are the Dodgers converting him. I know that it would be easy to just stick him back in the pen if Saito retired and promote him as Brox's set-up guy, but why take the risk that 120-150 IP will bring for a guy with a funky delivery?
2008-01-31 11:19:48
81.   overkill94
75 I'm with cargill on this one, I just don't see how Meloan could repeat that delivery for 6 IP+ without tearing up his elbow pretty quickly. I realize he was able to do it in college (and before that I'm sure), but I think that's the reason he got injured in college and dropped in the draft.

It's a different case than Broxton, who does have a smooth enough delivery to be a starter, but doesn't quite have the pitch repertoire or stamina to pull it off successfully.

2008-01-31 11:21:25
82.   overkill94
Just in case anyone was privately scowling that we didn't offer LuGo arbitration (and thus an extra draft pick), remember that a player can only get something like a 40% pay cut so if he had accepted the offer we'd be on the hook for at least $4M.
2008-01-31 11:23:27
83.   cargill06
80 i haven't heard anything about him being converted. someone let me know of a link or a source to confirm this
2008-01-31 11:23:52
84.   Jon Weisman
81 - Wouldn't the Dodgers be able to see the same problem you see?
2008-01-31 11:23:58
85.   Humma Kavula
82 I don't think anyone's scowling about that. Just clearing up the point: there is no draft pick to be had from losing Gonzalez.

There is much else to be gained from losing him, though.

2008-01-31 11:24:47
86.   underdog
80 I have been wondering that, too, even before hearing about his potential arm issues. Especially with Kershaw and McDonald coming up, and Withrow after them. I mean, I guess you can never have too much starting pitching depth, and maybe there's something about Meloan's make-up, but he seems like he'd be a great reliever with some seasoning.
2008-01-31 11:25:08
87.   Jon Weisman
83 -
2008-01-31 11:26:28
88.   Bob Timmermann
This is a corollary to my Joakim Noah Theory.
2008-01-31 11:27:57
89.   CajunDodger
The Dodgers are kind of unpredictable on this. They rushed Elbert just a bit, but were very careful with Bills (I still think his initial move to the pen last year was about limiting innings and hoping that Tomko/Hendrickson/Kuo could work for half a season).

I just hope they're right in what they are doing.

2008-01-31 11:28:39
90.   Jon Weisman
If you think someone can start, that's inherently more valuable than a reliever. Relievers are always easier to find. The only reason not to have Meloan start would be if he couldn't do the job - which is what seems to have been determined about Broxton, though I never was too sure.

That being said, I was surprised the Dodgers are converting Meloan. They clearly see big potential in him ... or maybe it's just an experiment ... or maybe it's just a hedge against a swath of injuries in March/April.

2008-01-31 11:31:03
91.   delias man
Law basically said in a chat about 3 weeks ago that he is down on Hochevar. Law projected him as a #4 starter. I was not surprised he is not on Law's list.
2008-01-31 11:32:14
92.   cargill06
i like how gurnick sites jason schmidt not returning his calls as that means his arm recovery is not going well.

could it just be that schmidt knows he is going to answer thousands of questions about it next month and just wants to relax in his last few weeks of the off season?

2008-01-31 11:37:13
93.   regfairfield
82 20%, Gonzalez would have to be delusional to not take an arbitration offer.

Andy Marte was BP's number one prospect a few years ago, but since Goldstein's come on they've been much better. Baseball America rarely flubbs the top prospect, the only real duds they've had are Ben Grieve and Todd Van Poppel. They couldn't have known Brein Taylor would get injured in a bar fight.

2008-01-31 11:38:58
94.   bhsportsguy
Law was asked where Kemp would be on his list, he said very very high.

{92] Since we have heard from both Ned and Stan Conte that Jason Schmidt is on track, I don't think what Ken Gurnick says in an article should be viewed with any concern.

That said, obviously Schmidt's recovery along with Andy v. Nomar will be something to watch in this tri-Spring Training (Vero, China, Phoenix)

2008-01-31 11:42:01
95.   underdog
92 I think that's a fair point. But, as BH says, don't take Gurnick too seriously, either. I see no reason to think the worst about Schmidt, and also see no reason to expect the best immediately either. This sure will be an interesting Spring.
2008-01-31 11:43:09
96.   regfairfield
In 2001 BP would have had Sean Burroughs as the top prospect if Ichiro wasn't in the league, and the next guy was someone named Ryan Anderson.
2008-01-31 11:45:21
97.   Eric Stephen
Ryan Anderson, the Little Unit (or Space Needle or whatever his nickname was).

Regarding Law's Meloan quote, I'm not sure I follow. If the injury risk is the same between starting and relieving, why would making Meloan a starter be throwing his arm in a wood chipper?

2008-01-31 11:47:02
98.   overkill94
84 I hope they're careful with him and don't just see him as an expendable part that can be tossed away if they ruin him. I'm just saying that my amateur eye does not see him as being able to handle 180 IP with his delivery.
2008-01-31 11:48:14
99.   Xeifrank
96. I have a stack of Ryan Anderson rookie baseball cards that are bicycle spoke material now. :)
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 11:49:53
100.   regfairfield
Wow, this looks particulary bad in retrospect.

It's hard to not find fault with Baseball America, who somehow deemed 63 other minor leaguers to be more valuable than Jeremy Giambi. That's like calling Ted Williams the 64th-best player of all time. Yes, Giambi is slow and has no defensive value. But to suggest that one of the two or three best hitting prospects in the minor leagues is only the 64th-best overall prospect is to suggest that offense represents an absurdly small fraction of a position player's overall contribution.

Yes, they actually compared Jeremy Giambi to Ted Williams.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-01-31 11:50:21
101.   bhsportsguy
93 But they did rank Marte very high when he was eligible, just not No. 1.

Baseball America's No. 1 Prospects since 1995

1995 - Alex Rodriquez
1996 - Andruw Jones
1997 - Andruw Jones
1998 - Ben Grieve
1999 - J.D. Drew
2000 - Rick Ankiel
2001 - Josh Hamilton
2002 - Josh Beckett
2003 - Mark Teixeira
2004 - Joe Mauer
2005 - Joe Mauer
2006 - Delmon Young
2007 - Daisuke Matsuzaka (Alex Gordon was No. 2)
2008 - My hunch is Jay Bruce.

I chose 1995 since it was A-Rod and its a good starting point.

2008-01-31 11:51:35
102.   regfairfield
101 Oh, I agree, everyone thought he'd be great it's just that Andy Marte is pretty responsible for ruining my fantasy team, and I'm bitter about it.
2008-01-31 11:55:24
103.   fanerman
100 Who said that?
2008-01-31 12:00:50
104.   bhsportsguy
On a side note, there is another interesting outfield situation in Boston where they have two guys for one spot, CF.

On the one hand, you have Coco Crisp, 28 years old, who is a good outfielder but his OPS has fallen to the just above .700 in the last two years.

On the rise is Jacoby Ellsbury, 24 years old, who is not quite as good an outfielder but a legitimate CF, who had a .903 OPS in limited appearances but eventually found his way into the lineup during the playoffs.

When listening to Terry Francona today on the radio (XM), you could tell that he is going to have a talk with Coco about this situation and my hunch is that there will be a platoon between them but its likely that they will both play in later stages in the game if they have the lead for defense.

2008-01-31 12:02:01
105.   bhsportsguy
Goldstein said he was posting the Dodger list tomorrow.
2008-01-31 12:06:49
106.   paranoidandroid
Regarding Jon's post:

I'm not a big records guy so I really don't care who has the most pinch hits. However, Dave Hansen's numbers are very misleading. He was Lardsoda's pet for a few years. Tommy would "start" Ramon Martinez (#1, the pitcher) at third base and then Hansen would "pinch hit" for him in the first inning and play the whole game.

He did this often one year (maybe 92?) in order to let Hansen break Mota's record. Mota must have been fine with it because he never said a peep and I think he was a roving coach at that point.

Just Tommy doing what he wanted to do again. Hansen was a decent bench player, but not the best pinch hitter in Dodger history. That was before Tony Danza put on a uniform and sat in the dugout during a game.

Will Tommy please go away? Please?

2008-01-31 12:07:53
107.   regfairfield
103 Rany Jazayerli for BP's 1999 top prospects.

Though Giambi did actually retire with a career OPS+ of 111 and had a 147 in his second to last year.

2008-01-31 12:12:46
108.   cargill06
ryan anderson, wasn't his career ruined by a torn labrum?
2008-01-31 12:15:17
109.   Jon Weisman
106 - Hansen pinch-hitting in the first inning didn't happen nearly as much as your comment seems to suggest. It only happened toward the end of the season that Hansen was making a run for a pinch-hitting record.

His numbers aren't really misleading - I don't suspect Hansen was much more a pet for Lasorda than Mota was during his playing days.

2008-01-31 12:15:42
110.   madmac
97 what he is saying is the resulting damage to his arm from starting would be the same if he put his arm in a wood chipper. Those two are the same, not relieving and starting.
2008-01-31 12:16:09
111.   Eric Enders
106 Your memory has made that fish grow much larger than it actually was. It only happened once or twice.
2008-01-31 12:16:30
112.   Eric Enders
Or, what Jon said.
2008-01-31 12:19:18
113.   Jon Weisman
Hansen pinch-hit in the first inning 12 times in his Dodger career, according to his game logs - six times in 2002. Some of the times he pinch-hit in the first inning were because of blowouts.

Hansen pinch-hit in the second inning 11 times in his career.

Mota pinch-hit in the first inning 22 times in his Dodger career.

2008-01-31 12:19:35
114.   paranoidandroid
109 Is there a way to find out how often it happened?

I'm not intending to misrepresent the situation, it was unethical in my opinion to do what Lasorda did regardless how often he did it. If I were Hansen, I would have declined. Knowing Tommy, I don't think it was Hansen's doing.

I've never seen a manager do that before Larsorda nor since.

2008-01-31 12:20:03
115.   Eric Enders
Just keepin' it real: Dave Hansen pinch hit in the first inning twice in his career, on September 15 and 20, 1993.
2008-01-31 12:21:57
116.   Eric Enders
113 Hmm... I got mine from PI. Where'd you get yours?
2008-01-31 12:22:08
117.   Jon Weisman
115 - Oops - I made a mistake when I was coming through the list. Disregard 113.
2008-01-31 12:23:30
118.   Eric Stephen
Thanks. I misread the quote.
2008-01-31 12:24:03
119.   paranoidandroid
113 Thanks for finding that info. I wasn't aware that Mota did that at all. I've never seen that happen since Hansen and I'm not old enough to have seen too many Mota games as I was in Chicago.

I mean no disrespect to Hansen nor the posters here.

I do indeed lack respect for Lasorda. Do Lenny Harris and Mark Sweeney have first inning pinch hits?

2008-01-31 12:27:47
120.   paranoidandroid
115 This is why eye witness testimony shouldn't be given as much credit as it is in a trial.

I can swear that I saw Hansen do that far more often than twice. I'm frankly amazed if it only happened twice. I would have lost the mortgage on that kind of wager.

I wonder how I can find out how many times Ramon Martinez "started" as an infielder. I was sure that Tommy did this and used Ramon more than twice. I really thought it was a daily thing for a stretch of time.

2008-01-31 12:30:06
121.   Eric Enders
Neither Lenny Harris nor Mark Sweeney ever pinch hit in the first inning. Both did it as early as the third, but that's it.

Hansen was 1-for-2 with an RBI single in his first-inning PH appearances. So I guess if you wanted to be a stickler you could subtract one from his career pinch hit total.

2008-01-31 12:30:50
122.   Jon Weisman
120 - Out of curiosity, do you think it was only Ramon involved? And if so, why?
2008-01-31 12:31:48
123.   Eric Stephen
Orel and Pedro were the starters at 3B on the days Eric mentioned in 115 .
2008-01-31 12:32:56
124.   paranoidandroid
121 I am amazed if that is accurate. Simply stunned. Is this a sign of aging or just a manifestation of my dislike of Tommy? I need to go ponder my existence and channel my positive energy into something constructive.
2008-01-31 12:34:07
125.   Eric Enders
Ramon Martinez started as an infielder 692 times in his career.

But if you mean the other one, he never started a game at any position other than pitcher. For the two Hansen games in 1993, Orel Hershiser started at 3B on September 15 and Pedro Martinez on September 20.

2008-01-31 12:34:36
126.   fanerman
124 I think you're paranoid, but, not an android.
2008-01-31 12:35:20
127.   ToyCannon
It used to bug me that Hansen wasn't ever given a chance to be at least the LH side of a platoon at 3rd. Was his defense that bad?
2008-01-31 12:35:50
128.   paranoidandroid
122 I simply remember seeing it happen unless it is a false memory. Vin announced the line-ups and Ramon was at third base and he explained why. Then I think it happened for a stretch while we were out of it.

I thought it was the year we had the worst record in baseball, '92. I didn't even get that right. It just must have been my loathing of Tommy that made this mushroom in my memory or something. I truly believed it happened quite a bit. Seems I was wrong.

2008-01-31 12:36:09
129.   bhsportsguy
Tony (Brooklyn, NY): What do you think when you read Peter Gammons say "This is what those statheads sitting in their garages don't understand [insert point about character, chemistry, etc.]"? Thanks!

Kevin Goldstein: I think he's right.

I think the good news is that THOSE kind of statheads don't sit in their garage and work for BP, and many of THOSE kind of statheads have changed their way of thinking and now see that there are parts of the game beyond the spreadsheet that are extremely important, and that THOSE kind of statheads are, thankfully, a dying breed.

When I was a teenager, I was one of THOSE kind of statheads. I learned my lesson.

2008-01-31 12:37:16
130.   paranoidandroid
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Are you all Tommy bots? Are you figments of my imagination?

Pinch me. I'm having a nightmare.

2008-01-31 12:39:18
131.   Eric Enders
In case you wanted a better reason to dislike Lasorda, here's a list of the Dodger pitchers who threw the most pitches in one game between 1977 and 1996. My shoulder hurts just looking at this. Poor Ramon.

2008-01-31 12:42:31
132.   CanuckDodger
About Meloan, BA said he was better suited to relief because he has "recoil" in his delivery, which is hard on the arm. But when I saw Meloan pitch for the Dodgers last year, I can't say that I saw a delivery that should confine Meloan to the bullpen. I didn't see any recoil. In fact, Meloan seems to "finish" his delivery better than Billingsley does, as he doesn't fall toward first base nearly as badly. The arm action is a bit long, but Kelvim Escobar has long arm action and he starts. I suppose the body is a bit herky-jerky going back, but the arm is smooth and quick going forward. I don't think the "bouncy" thing he does with his knees looks great, but Mike Mussina and Chan-Ho Park do the same thing.

As for why the Dodgers are converting Meloan back to starting, it could be as simple as Meloan wants to do it. We know that Meloan has asked to start because that has been reported. He may have been actively complaining about relieving, or at least not being given a chance to prove himself as a pro starter when he was successful at it in college. I always thought that one of the things that people who complained about Broxton relieving instead of starting weren't considering was that Broxton LOVES relieving. Gagne was the same way.

2008-01-31 12:43:37
133.   ToyCannon
Tony (Brooklyn, NY): Are you going to read "Nerds: Who they are and why we need more of them", wait for the Geek version, or neither?

Kevin Goldstein: I actually take some affront to being called nerd. Nerd implies a certain lack of style and social graces, as well as a certain kind of shyness and nervousness about new and different things. I'm a geek when it comes to baseball and video games, but I'm not a nerd.

I think this is why I was put off by Chaz's comment yesterday. A Geek inner circle is one thing but a Nerd inner circle is another animal entirely. I am certainly a Dodger, Prospect, Roto, and SciFi Geek. But a nerd. that cut to the bone.

2008-01-31 12:44:37
134.   Eric Enders
90 "If you think someone can start, that's inherently more valuable than a reliever. Relievers are always easier to find. The only reason not to have Meloan start would be if he couldn't do the job - which is what seems to have been determined about Broxton, though I never was too sure."

Okay, going back to this, I wanted to ask -- is that really universally true? Or does the way the guy's stuff translates to the bullpen have something to do with it? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that Gagne would have been better off as a #4 starter than a Cy Young-winning reliever.

2008-01-31 12:45:32
135.   cargill06
so since keith law has ellsbury ranked #24 is it pretty safe to say he likes kemp better?
2008-01-31 12:49:11
136.   cargill06
Wilson (DC): Gomez ceiling = Juan Pierre. OH BOY.

Keith Law: No, I said Gomez would be good.

poor juan can't keep his name from being dragged around in internet blogs... well i gues he's laughing all the way to the bank

2008-01-31 12:49:14
137.   ToyCannon
Keith Law has stated that he likes Kemp better as much as Bruce.

Or this quote from Byran Smith who is a bright bulb himself.

dtimmeny (NYC): Where would you rank the peak of Matt Kemp relative to the aforementioned outfielders?(Bruce, Upton, Jones, Maybin, Rasmus)
Bryan Smith: Pretty highly, probably right behind Bruce and in front of Adam Jones. You could make a case for Bruce and Kemp on the same level. With Nate already mentioning Pecota loving Kemp, you readers might just see a BP-Kemp lovefest for the next decade. Be prepared.

2008-01-31 12:49:51
138.   regfairfield
134 I'm siding with you here. Truly effective relievers are few and far between, much more rare than the mediocre starters that Gagne or Papelbon would be.

If a guys stuff becomes shutdown good out of the pen, it's probably better to have him there than in the back of the rotation. If they have the stuff to be a front line starter, then you have them make the switch to starting.

135 You have to be a completely blind Boston homer to like Ellsbury better than Kemp.

2008-01-31 12:51:10
139.   Eric Stephen
I don't think Baseball Reference has any pitch data from 1977 to 1987.

I found that out by accident when looking up a ridiculously low pitch count (74) in an Aaron Cook complete game last year.

2008-01-31 12:52:32
140.   ToyCannon
One other note on Kemp. At the last DT game, Matt Kemp hit the game winning home run and sent the inner nerd circle of 40 people into a frenzy. He gets lots of love here because he is our guy. Our guy, not Bedard, not Johan, not Haren. Our guy. Did I mention he is our guy?
2008-01-31 12:53:54
141.   Eric Stephen
My hand still hurts from Suffering Bruin making the rounds and high-fiving me!
2008-01-31 12:54:05
142.   cargill06
138 well unfortunatley that's what i'm dealing with.
2008-01-31 12:56:00
143.   Jon Weisman
138 - I feel like Gagne is an exception that doesn't necessarily disprove a rule.

I take Canuck's point - Gagne may just not have wanted to start, period - and I'm hardly going to downplay Gagne's value as a reliever, but we never really got to see what his potential as a starter was.

"If they have the stuff to be a front line starter, then you have them make the switch to starting." Has it been decided that Meloan doesn't have the stuff?

2008-01-31 12:56:02
144.   regfairfield
142 To argue for Ellsbury, you have to assume that both Kemp will never get better, and Ellsbury's defense is god-like. What would you rather have, a guy who can get you 200 hits and show some good hustle, or a guy who has the potential to be the MVP?
2008-01-31 12:56:30
145.   cargill06
i'm just afraid of kemps walk rate, if he hits in the .270's his obp will be struggling to get into the .330's
2008-01-31 12:56:39
146.   Jon Weisman
140 - The last thing I want to see is for "inner nerd circle" to become part of the DT vernacular. So let's put that to rest.
2008-01-31 12:56:42
147.   regfairfield
143 I wasn't referring to Meloan there. I have no idea if he does or doesn't.
2008-01-31 12:57:23
148.   cargill06
i don't think gagne was 'roiding when he was a starter.
2008-01-31 12:57:35
149.   Eric Enders
139 Thanks. I was wondering why Fernando wasn't on there more.
2008-01-31 13:00:41
150.   Eric Stephen
I might just be because NASA has yet to finish computing Fernando's pitches! I heard they would start computing that right after they figured out Barney's bar tab.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-01-31 13:01:16
151.   Eric Enders
145 That's a legitimate fear, but keep in mind that Kemp with an OBP in the .330s would still be a very valuable player due to his power.
2008-01-31 13:02:45
152.   ToyCannon
Your friends probably think Ellsbury is going to OPS 900 the rest of his career. That power kind of came out of nowhere. If he even becomes an 850 OPS player he will be extremely valuable but his minor league numbers say that is unlikely. On the other hand the 1st 300 at bats of Loney's season also indicated that his explosion in Sept was very unlikely.

146 Done, just couldn't resist one last time. I'm still irked.

2008-01-31 13:03:40
153.   cargill06
ya probably comparable to a younger torii hunter, hopefully his defense will get there or close to hit
2008-01-31 13:04:46
154.   silverwidow
145 Kemp is much better than a .270 hitter. I wouldn't be surprised if his floor is right around .300 considering his incredible speed allows him to beat out several infield grounders.
2008-01-31 13:08:26
155.   Jon Weisman
I think an .800 OPS season from Kemp (.330/.470) is entirely possible - but that's a worst-case scenario for me other than him getting hurt, knock on wood.
2008-01-31 13:09:55
156.   cargill06
154 ya i know his minor league stats prove he's not. but just that horrible stretch he went through in '06 scares me, he seems to have many holes in his swing
2008-01-31 13:11:07
157.   ToyCannon
I could easily see Martin, Loney, Kent, Furcal, LaRoche, Jones, and Kemp all putting up an OPS over 800 but not greater then 850. Furcal would have the hardest time getting to 800 but this year is going to be his biggest power year ever.
2008-01-31 13:11:39
158.   cargill06
155 agreed
2008-01-31 13:12:58
159.   silverwidow
but just that horrible stretch he went through in '06 scares me, he seems to have many holes in his swing

Oh, so you're basing Kemp's future on his first 100+ ABs straight out of Double-A. Okay.

2008-01-31 13:13:19
160.   ToyCannon
He was 21. Mike Schmidt was awful at 23. Did you forget how great he was before the bad stretch when he hit bomb after bomb?
2008-01-31 13:13:45
161.   Eric Enders
155 "that's a worst-case scenario for me other than him getting hurt, knock on wood."

Or, more likely, knock on Plexiglas.

2008-01-31 13:14:24
162.   cargill06
any chance juan pierre is training to go through a career transition like willie in major league 2?

if pierre avg. 8-12 HR a year what would our thoughts of him be?

2008-01-31 13:15:09
163.   ToyCannon
The 1st 100 at bats were awesome. It was the last 50 at bats that were his undoing.
2008-01-31 13:15:48
164.   cargill06
159 no sir, just saying it scares me.

i've said a couple of times in my eyes he compares a lot to torii hunter to me.

2008-01-31 13:16:10
165.   Brian Y
162. I'd still think he has a noodle arm.
2008-01-31 13:16:21
166.   ToyCannon
Cory Patterson
2008-01-31 13:17:37
167.   fanerman
159 163 Was this in 2006?
2008-01-31 13:17:47
168.   Eric Enders
"if pierre avg. 8-12 HR a year what would our thoughts of him be?"

That he ingested the world's entire known supply of HGH?

2008-01-31 13:18:00
169.   cargill06
166 would be having the juan pierre must sit conversations still?

i think if kemp has a career like hunter we'd all be happy with that right? or for the most part is everyone expecting more?

2008-01-31 13:22:20
170.   Eric Enders
If Kemp's batting ended up like Torii Hunter's career, I'd be fairly disappointed. But frankly, I don't see that comparison at all. Kemp has nowhere near the defensive instincts of Hunter, and probably never will. Although he may become an outstanding defensive right fielder, he probably never would be more than adequate in center, not that he'll ever get the chance. His body type is vastly different from Hunter's; they're both fast, but Kemp's big and strong while Hunter's long and lean. Kemp is likely to lose his speed a lot quicker than Hunter did. But I think he'll be better than Hunter both in hitting for average and hitting for power.
2008-01-31 13:23:23
171.   fanerman
169 I think that would be his floor. I expect more.

If Pierre turned 10 of his singles in 2007 into home runs, his slugging percentage would increase from .353 to .407. His OPS would still be .730. That's still really low. Especially considering his .330 OBP.

2008-01-31 13:24:59
172.   silverwidow
no sir, just saying it scares me.

If you were a Rockies fan and saw Troy Tulowitzki put up .240/.318/.292 in his first ~100 ABs, would it scare you?

2008-01-31 13:25:23
173.   Eric Enders
If I wanted to compare Kemp to somebody, it would be more like a poor man's Dave Winfield, or maybe Dave Parker.
2008-01-31 13:31:02
174.   cargill06
170 i hope you're right, i agree he will probably hit for a better avg. i know he still will devolp some more power but his hr/ab (in the majors and minors) aren't impressive for a guy you think will have more power than hunter
2008-01-31 13:32:37
175.   cargill06
172 yes it would, but his last 500 ab's would put those fears to rest.

so i guess kemps 350 abs last year should put my fears to rest... like i said i could still see him hitting in the .270's that's all

2008-01-31 13:32:42
176.   ToyCannon
Yeah, Dave is who I think of. And I do think he will lose his speed very quickly. I have a hard time remembering big men like that who still had the speed in their late 20's but that is so far off who cares.
2008-01-31 13:32:47
177.   bhsportsguy
170 Remember, he dropped 25 lbs this winter.
2008-01-31 13:33:46
178.   ToyCannon
I mean Parker not Winfield.
2008-01-31 13:34:51
179.   fanerman
177 So that'd put him at 6'2" 205 lbs? (using baseball reference for that)
2008-01-31 13:37:39
180.   delias man
146 - My GF is a big Dodger fan, knows I read the site, and every day she asks me "what were the nerds saying today?" It is meant out of respect in this case.

It is amazing how everyone has the time to come back with these stats and great tidbits with references so quickly.

2008-01-31 13:42:01
181.   Eric Enders
Here's an interesting list: Most career steals by players at least 6-foot-2 and 220 pounds. Messrs. Winfield and Parker appear prominently.

2008-01-31 13:43:43
182.   bhsportsguy
180 It helps when we talk about the same things over and over again.

Also having Baseball, and helps a lot too.

2008-01-31 13:48:30
183.   fanerman
By the way, Juan Pierre has 12 home runs in his career, so doubling that in one season seems rather unlikely. It surprises me to see that only 1 of those home runs was of the inside-the-park variety. Not because I think he's fast enough to hit more. I'm surprised he managed to hit 11 fence clearing home runs in his career.
2008-01-31 13:48:46
184.   old dodger fan
180 I grew up (1960's) with box scores in the newspaper and player stats in the Sunday paper. Back then we evaluated hitters on BA, HR and RBI's. If there was anything else I don't know what it was.
2008-01-31 13:55:23
185.   ToyCannon
Poor retrosheet and baseball cube, how quickly the pioneers are forgotten.
2008-01-31 13:55:36
186.   cargill06
juan pierre is listed at 6-0 180 (ya f'n right) has 12 HR in 4000 AB

eric if you want to create a list let's come up with least amount of HR for guys at least 6-0 180 with 3000+ AB's

2008-01-31 13:56:32
187.   cargill06
186 just if you want to kill time.
2008-01-31 13:56:34
188.   silverwidow
So that'd put him at 6'2" 205 lbs?

Not accurate. He said he only lost 15 lbs (audio interview), down from 240 from the end of last season. Also, he is a legit 6'4"

2008-01-31 13:58:22
189.   ToyCannon
I could easily see Matt Kemp getting into the top 5 of that list.
2008-01-31 14:02:29
190.   old dodger fan
Parker stole 154 and was caught 113 times! Awful.
2008-01-31 14:02:30
191.   Eric Stephen
In most Sunday papers during the MLB season, those stats are still listed. And today, for some strange reason, the team batting stats are sorted by batting avg instead of runs scored.

I know Rob Neyer has railed on this in the past (I want to say in "Baseball Dynasties" -- a great book, btw), but it's amazing to me that the team stats aren't sorted by runs scored.

2008-01-31 14:02:39
192.   ToyCannon
BR weight numbers are useless because they don't get updated and these are growing kids. I also don't put any weight on what a player says he's lost during the offseason. What are they going to say, "Yeah, I sat on my ass all winter eating anything I want". They will always spin it so they sound good. That is the cynic in me coming out.
2008-01-31 14:11:40
193.   Eric Enders
I think they if they sat around getting fat, they'd usually just say "I put on 15 pounds of muscle." But these days admitting to growing muscles will get you a subpoena from Congress.
2008-01-31 14:16:02
194.   bhsportsguy
185 I couldn't list everything. :)
2008-01-31 14:17:21
195.   CanuckDodger
Kemp looks more like 6'2" than 6'4". Shawn Green was 6'4" and Kemp looks a couple inches shorter.
2008-01-31 14:28:21
196.   Andrew Shimmin
188 is right. 25 lbs was a misprint. I meant to note it at the time, but the conversation had moved on.
2008-01-31 14:33:06
197.   ToyCannon
No, you were right. Better websites have passed them by. I only use Cube now for older players minor league numbers and I never use retrosheet anymore. Baseball-Reference has just blown them out of the water.
If Baseball Prospectus would ever put together a sortable table based database for EQA and Vorp then I'd really get excited. It is amazing how far behind they are in the web world when they must have a gazillion interns doing all their stuff for free. Sortable databases isn't rocket science.
2008-01-31 14:37:32
198.   natepurcell
my stab at Goldstein's dodgers top 11

5 star

4 star
Chin Lung Hu
Scott Elbert

3 star
Chris Withrow
James McDonald
Jon Meloan
Blake Dewitt
Josh Bell
Delwyn Young
Andrew Lambo

2008-01-31 14:38:00
199.   Eric Enders
The Retrosheet website is still useful for certain things. It'll give you league leaders in defensive stats, for one thing, which BB-Reference will not. And anyway, their database is literally the backbone upon which BB-Reference was built, so they deserve credit for that.
2008-01-31 14:41:08
200.   Bob Timmermann
Retrosheet pioneered keeping track of catcher's interference on both the offensive and defensive end.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-01-31 14:41:46
201.   Eric Enders
198 My wild guess is that he'll list Baez instead of Delwyn.
2008-01-31 14:42:12
202.   Jon Weisman
197 - I tried to get Kirk Gibson's 1988 EQA ranking from BPro for my post earlier this week, and it didn't work. They had everyone's EQA at .000 in the sortable tables, even though they had the real EQAs on the player cards.
2008-01-31 14:44:09
203.   natepurcell

I forgot about Baez. I agree with that.

2008-01-31 14:53:39
204.   Humma Kavula
Question for Eric Enders, this board's biggest Neil Young fan:

Have you heard Magnolia Electric Co.? You may like his stuff.

Don't get me wrong: Neil Young is a legend and blows this guy out of the water, but it's easy for me to hear Young's influence in Magnolia's music and the guy acquits himself well enough, I think. Just curious about your opinion.

2008-01-31 14:59:43
205.   Eric Enders
204 I've never heard it, no. But I've just added the latest album to my eMusic list for future downloading. Thanks.

I saw "Away From Her" the other night, and I thought Polley used Neil Young's music to nice effect in that. Particularly given that the film is set in "a town in North Ontario."

2008-01-31 15:03:04
206.   ToyCannon
My wife and I have had near divorce arguements over her lack of respect for Mr. Young.
2008-01-31 15:06:35
207.   Humma Kavula
205 Very interested to hear what you think. I'm digging it, but if somebody said they hated it, I would not be surprised. Emusic downloads are inexpensive enough that you can use a few to try it out before getting the entire album.
2008-01-31 15:10:40
208.   jasonungar07
A Little At A Time, from Magnolia Electric Co. sounds excatly like Mr Young. So does Farewell Transmission. I am on youtube now checking it out. I am a huge fan of Neil's as well so sharing this is awesome. If I hadn't known it wasn't Neil I would think it is. Thanks
2008-01-31 15:12:26
209.   D4P
a town in North Ontario

Which reminds me: I saw the video for Dream Academy's "Life in an Northern Town" on VH1 Classic this morning.

That channel has me pumped up. It's as if Hanz and Franz made a personal visit.

2008-01-31 15:22:36
210.   underdog
So will Luis Gonzalez be okay being the fourth outfielder, with three much younger players ahead of him? Does it depend on whether the team is competitive or not? All this and more... as the season unfolds.
2008-01-31 15:23:17
211.   underdog
205 Just thinking about that movie makes me teary eyed, though not really in a bad way. And I agree, the use of Young music was spot-on.
2008-01-31 15:26:18
212.   CanuckDodger
198 -- From Goldstein's chat, it sounded like he considers his Top 50 to be 5 Star prospects, so that means Hu will be up with Kershaw and LaRoche.
2008-01-31 15:32:46
213.   cargill06
if jd drew doesn't opt out last year is juan pierre still a dodger?

imagine if out OF situation this year was Kemp Drew and Jones with Ethier as our 4th (but at least he's the 4th for the right reasons)

2008-01-31 15:34:57
214.   underdog
213 No, most likely not a Dodger if Drew had stayed.
2008-01-31 15:35:42
215.   cargill06
who plays CF in '07?
2008-01-31 15:37:14
216.   regfairfield
215 Some combination of Repko, Werth, and random non roster invities (I was on the Jose Cruz Jr. band wagon), or Drew.
2008-01-31 15:38:49
217.   Eric Enders
216 Repko or Werth would play center over Kemp?
2008-01-31 15:39:36
218.   regfairfield
217 At the beginning of the year, probably.
2008-01-31 15:39:40
219.   swood
Good riddens Gonzo... I don't know if I've ever been frustrated by a player more than I was by Gonzo this year.
Torre's Opening Day Lineup:
Furcal SS
Ethier LF
Kemp RF
Jones CF
Kent 2B
Loney 1B
Martin C
Nomar/LaRoche 3B
Penny P

I can't wait until the ST games begin, or until Pitchers and Catchers report. TWO WEEKS BABY!!! GO DODGERS!!!

2008-01-31 15:39:41
220.   fanerman
Drew wanted to play CF in 06. Maybe he'd continue to play in 07.
2008-01-31 15:40:14
221.   swood
Gonzo signed with the Fish 2day.
2008-01-31 15:40:40
222.   fanerman
219 No Pierre. I like.
2008-01-31 15:41:08
223.   Andrew Shimmin
Goldstein said he wanted his top 50 to be five star prospects, but that it didn't work out, because the minor league talent pool was weak, this year. But it seems unlikely it'd be off by half.
2008-01-31 15:41:55
224.   D4P
Pierre's likely presence in LF tempers a big chunk of the LuGo being gone excitement.
2008-01-31 15:42:29
225.   swood
222. Hopefully Torre will see(in 3 weeks instead of 4 cuz of the China trip) that Ethier is the obvious better player... atleast thats what I'm hoping.
2008-01-31 15:42:30
226.   Humma Kavula
219 Juan Pierre will almost certainly be in the opening day lineup.

Here's my stab on what Torre has in mind for Day 1:

Furcal SS
Pierre LF
Jones CF
Kent 2B
Kemp RF
Loney 1B
Martin C
Garciaparra* 3B
Penny P

*That's a guess. If LaRoche hits in ST, and Nomar doesn't, LaRoche will get the gig.

2008-01-31 15:42:32
227.   cargill06
219 martin 7th??? let's have martin and ethier switch spots than you got a line-up
2008-01-31 15:44:32
228.   Eric Enders
227 He's guessing Torre's lineup, not making his own. And Joe Torre has not yet been exposed to the glorious golden god that is Russell Martin.
2008-01-31 15:44:46
229.   swood
226 Why will Pierre almost certainly be in the opening day lineup? Remember Grady is not our manager anymore...
2008-01-31 15:44:58
230.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh, Hu was at thirty-two. Still, going from fifty five-star players to thirty seems like it would draw a more emphatic mention. That's pretty exciting. Has Goldstein been historically more bullish on the Dodger system than Law? Beside those two and Sickels, are there other big time list makers?
2008-01-31 15:45:16
231.   swood
228 exactly
2008-01-31 15:46:18
232.   silverwidow
Spring training is going to matter TOO MUCH this year, which I hate.
2008-01-31 15:47:22
233.   Eric Enders
230 Judging by their lists, Goldstein likes the very top dodger prospects (Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu) better than Law does, but law likes the next tier of guys (McDonald, Withrow, etc) better than Goldstein does.
2008-01-31 15:48:51
234.   regfairfield
229 Because he makes a lot of money, and Torre certainly isn't anti scrap.
2008-01-31 15:48:54
235.   Eric Enders
Man, following Withrow is going to be fun this year. I really do think he's the next in the Billingsley-Kershaw line.
2008-01-31 15:48:56
236.   Humma Kavula
229 You're right. "Almost certainly" is too strong.

Allow me to rephrase.

Considering that the Dodger management thought well enough of Juan Pierre to give him an enormous contract just one year ago, I will be highly and pleasantly surprised if Juan Pierre is not in the opening day lineup.

2008-01-31 15:49:03
237.   swood
How come Brandon Wood of the Angels has fallen so far? A couple of years ago he was top 10. Now he's barely top 40.
2008-01-31 15:49:26
238.   bhsportsguy
230 Goldstein has been pretty positive on the Dodger system since I have been reading his stuff back when he wrote at Baseball America. Keith Law wasn't doing this until he came to after he worked for the Blue Jays front office.

I tend to think Law is more critical of how the Dodgers handle their players more than the players themselves and sometimes comes out in his analysis while KG just writes about the players and not so much about if they should be playing or not.

But Goldstein, Law, Sickels, that guy at Baseball HQ, I think all of them have been really positive about the Dodger system over the past few years.

2008-01-31 15:49:27
239.   cargill06
232 why not? march baseball is very interesting, that delays the wait
2008-01-31 15:50:40
240.   cargill06
232 why not? very meaningful march baseball delays the wait.
2008-01-31 15:50:54
241.   bhsportsguy
236 Again, regardless of whether or not he is on the Opening Day lineup, I don't think that will be a predictor of what his role will be this year.
2008-01-31 15:51:01
242.   regfairfield
237 Because his power numbers got a lot worse, and he still has no concept of how to make contact. At this point, I'm really doubting if he'll be a major leaguer.
2008-01-31 15:51:08
243.   jasonungar07
My prediction is that the big news coming out of Spring won't be that Nomar is now a utility guy or that Ethier has won left field. My guess is, this year Pierre will hit leadoff and Furcal will hit in the two hole. That will be the big change. Yawn.
2008-01-31 15:51:11
245.   Daniel Zappala
D4P: I still have my Dream Academy LPs. And lots of other goodness from the 80s. You may not have them.
2008-01-31 15:51:28
246.   CanuckDodger
230 -- This is only the second year that Goldstein has been doing a Top 100, so it is not like there is a long track record for comparison. I don't know why Hu's ranking is surprising anybody, other than that there hasn't been much enthusiasm around here for him given that he doesn't walk much and won't be a power hitter. But Goldstein has consistently conveyed, over time, that the scouts he talks to ADORE Hu.
2008-01-31 15:51:42
247.   swood
2008-01-31 15:52:49
248.   silverwidow
239 Why not? Flukish spring performance might give certain guys an edge when they are inferior to someone else. Let's say Ethier has a poor spring; does that damage his stock in Torre's mind? We all know he's a good hitter, but Torre isn't familiar with these guys.
2008-01-31 15:52:53
249.   regfairfield
244 The day you learn that most managers are pretty much the same will be a sad one indeed.
2008-01-31 15:53:46
250.   bhsportsguy
233 Law think LaRoche should start so I think thats a good enough recommedation, I have seen ranked in the top 20 and the 40s in some rankings while Kershaw has been in every top 10 list I have seen this year.

Hu usually makes the top 50 or so, after that I have seen Elbert, McDonald, Meloan, and Withrow on various lists.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-01-31 15:54:29
251.   swood
249 We'll find out soon enough. I think you may be pleasently surprised by the differences between Torre and Grittle.
2008-01-31 15:55:16
252.   Eric Enders
244 I wish I had your optimism. Having seen Torre give copious amounts of playing time to the likes of Enrique Wilson, Andy Phillips, and Luis Sojo, among others, I don't.

Grady Little doesn't have a trademark on foolish lineups.

2008-01-31 15:55:43
253.   swood
I'm a little surprised Melonan wasn't on either list. I thought he was a better prospect than Withrow...
2008-01-31 15:55:50
254.   Andrew Shimmin
245- Don't encourage him. If we just ignore this, it'll all go away, and we won't have to deal with knowing how many people here are nostalgic for the worst era music has ever experienced.
2008-01-31 15:56:44
255.   CanuckDodger
235 -- Alan Matthews at BA seemed to think that Withrow would be distinctly UN-like Billingsley and Kershaw, at least in the respect that he was more raw at the time he was drafted and would have to move more slowly. Matthews didn't even think Withrow would start next year in low A, while Billingsley skipped low A altogether and started in high A, the season after he was drafted.
2008-01-31 15:56:55
256.   regfairfield
If there was no 80's, there would be no Safety Dance.
2008-01-31 15:57:01
257.   D4P
I used to have some LPs and 45s from the 80s, but I don't know what happened to them. I had a lot more 45s than LPs. I also had some cassettes.

The few LPs included:

Crowded House
(Geez, that might be it)

2008-01-31 15:57:27
258.   swood
252 Very good point. All I can really say to you guys is we'll see.
2008-01-31 15:57:35
259.   D4P
If we just ignore this, it'll all go away

Never! I've (finally) been given an inch!

2008-01-31 15:57:52
260.   Eric Enders
At first, I actually expected Kershaw would be the top-rated pitcher on all these lists, and maybe even the #1 player overall. One wonders if the prospexperts are putting too much stock in the small sample size MLB performance of Chamberlain and Buchholz, who have pitched less than 25 innings apiece.
2008-01-31 15:58:53
261.   Andrew Shimmin
246- I'm even surprised that you're not surprised. I knew you were high on him, but I didn't take from what you've said that you were that high on him. Which is remarkable, given how excitable you are. Why haven't you been running around like your hair was on fire?

You have failed me. Hang your head in shame.

2008-01-31 15:59:36
262.   bhsportsguy
My predition on the outfield playing time (4 weeks before the first ST game).

Jones will play everyday with an occasional day off.
Kemp will get the second most playing time but he will get more days off than Jones.
Ethier and Pierre will get about equal time, not a platoon since they both bat lefty.

Jones 155 games
Kemp 146 games
Pierre 125 games
Ethier 120 games

I have no idea if mathmetically that works out but that is my prediction.

2008-01-31 16:02:38
263.   Andrew Shimmin
262- You're 60 games over. I know where I expect to see those sixty games to come from.
2008-01-31 16:02:47
264.   bhsportsguy
260 Buchholz's numbers are really really good and he is MLB ready right now so I can see why he is rated above. Chamberlain, one question, is he better than K-Rod when Frankie was making batters look silly his first go around.

Let's see how the Chamberlain starting gig looks in ST, if he is in the bullpen in April, than Kershaw moves up in my opinion.

2008-01-31 16:02:51
265.   Eric Enders
262 Mathematically, that probably means Pierre pinch ran a lot. As many as 90 times. Which would be great.
2008-01-31 16:03:56
266.   regfairfield
260 I personally put Buchholz and Chamberlain as number one and two because their numbers were just absurd (13.76 K/9, 5 K/BB for Joba, 12.3 K/9, 4.88 K/BB for Buchholz) and they did it at a higher level than Kershaw. (Joba takes a back seat to Buccholz because he only pitched 41 innnings in AA and AAA.

Kershaw's numbers were worse (12.03 K/9, 2.43 K/BB) and he was at a lower level, so I have to give the nod to the first two. There's just more of a guarantee that they'll be productive big leaguers.

2008-01-31 16:04:51
267.   Xeifrank
262. it works if you are taking into account late inning defensive replacements. I'm sure that's why you went 60 over, right?
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 16:05:23
268.   Eric Enders
264 Chamberlain has serious concerns about injuries and body type which caused him to fall way down in the draft just 18 months ago. He's done incredibly well, but he hasn't exactly answered those questions yet, so I can't see rating him quite that highly.
2008-01-31 16:06:19
269.   bhsportsguy
266 Do you agree that if Chamberlain stays in the pen, as a prospect, Kershaw is ranked higher?
2008-01-31 16:06:31
270.   CanuckDodger
261 -- How have I not been REALLY excited about Hu? I just about body-check anybody who suggests extending Furcal, and before Regfairfield came around (a bit) I practically challenged him to pistols at dawn. I think Jon even told me to let up on poor Reg.
2008-01-31 16:06:33
271.   Eric Enders
265 Boy, my math sucks.
2008-01-31 16:08:20
272.   Xeifrank
Chamberlain is two years older than Kershaw and Buchholz is three years older. What kind of numbers were those two guys putting up when they were Kershaw's age last season? They are closer to major league ready, but they are also older.
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 16:08:45
273.   bhsportsguy
267 Yeah, something like that.

I mean its hard to see Pierre not playing at all but I also don't see any way that if healthy, Torre keeps Kemp off the field that much so you are down to that one spot.

2008-01-31 16:10:36
274.   bhsportsguy
270 I think we can all agree that there is no poster here that is more excited about anyone in the Dodger system more than Canuck.
2008-01-31 16:10:44
275.   Eric Enders
I've been a Hu supporter from way back, but I can't say I see him as a future star... yet. He's had one really outstanding year with the bat, so it's still an open question whether he will hit. We have to recognize the (perhaps small) possibility that he could still end up as the next Cesar Izturis.

Then again, he could end up as the next Omar Vizquel or Davey Concepcion, which would be fine with me.

2008-01-31 16:11:43
276.   jasonungar07
My opinion is the plan, no matter what is said is that we are trying to accomodate Pierre by trading him to a team that will start him in CF. If that can't happen, he will be our starting LF. We will then play the 4OF thing all they way to the trading deadline to see if we can trade Pierre again, if not, then Ethier or Kemp for help needed elsewhere due to injury or deficent play. Ned has basically said without saying it that Jones, Kemp and Ethier are our 3 best OFers but he is also loyal and appreciative of Pierre's strengths (hard worker, teamplayer, good in the room, plays hard daily)and he won't do Pierre the way us coldblodded bloggers would!
2008-01-31 16:11:52
277.   regfairfield
272 I agree. I put them up there because they have a better chance of being good major leaguers, but Kershaw probably has a higher ceiling. I guess it depends which one you value more when you rank prospects.

270 All I wanted was the guy to have some success without a .400 BABIP. Is that too much to ask?

2008-01-31 16:13:55
278.   fanerman
276 I really believe the Dodgers are trying to trade Pierre, too. Maybe I'm in denial.
2008-01-31 16:14:42
279.   Eric Enders
276 So what you're saying is, we're rooting for calamitous injuries to befall center fielders on contending teams.
2008-01-31 16:15:15
280.   fanerman
270 I'd paid to watch you and regfairfield have at it with pistols at dawn.
2008-01-31 16:15:24
281.   fanerman
2008-01-31 16:17:29
282.   Andrew Shimmin
270- Reg is a splitter. I've noticed it, too. Pistols may not be the answer, but there's got to be some way of getting him back in line.
2008-01-31 16:17:52
283.   CanuckDodger
272 -- When they were the age that Kershaw was in 2007 (19), Buchholz was a pitcher for Angelina Junior College in Texas, and not one good enough to get drafted in the top 40 the following year, while Chamberlain had a 5.23 ERA at a Division II college.

Buchholz and Chamberlain both improved a lot after they were drafted, and their stuff PLUS upper minors and MLB performance makes it fair for them to rank ahead of Kershaw. But that ranking does not preclude Kershaw from being even better than them down the line. Bonus points for being a lefty too.

2008-01-31 16:18:55
284.   Jon Weisman
244 - with Rule 1 violation edited out:

244. swood
236 I have faith that Torre will choose the openind day lineup based on who he thinks best helps the team. Not how much money a player makes. I understand your point though, and I can see why you made it considering we've been suffering under Grady's lineups for the past couple of years.

2008-01-31 16:19:01
285.   jasonungar07
279 yes. sad but true, but would never wish injury on anyone, yadayada.... I just don't think that the effects of benching Pierre is worth starting Ethier in Torre's mind. At least right now. That may take some time... I think everyone knows, even Torre without spring training what Pierre brings to the table versus Ethier.

I do feel 3b is a truly up for grabs though.

2008-01-31 16:19:57
286.   Xeifrank
283. Thanks for doing the research. :)
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 16:20:31
287.   Jon Weisman
261 - Canuck has been huge on Hu. His debates with Regfairfield have been interesting.
2008-01-31 16:21:00
288.   Bob Timmermann
For comparison purposes, the Dodgers had 228 games played in LF, 171 in CF, and 205 in RF in the 2007 season.
2008-01-31 16:21:53
289.   Jon Weisman
287 - Ah, I now see Canuck addressed this in 270.
2008-01-31 16:22:15
290.   Jon Weisman
274 - Except when it came to Buddy Carlyle.
2008-01-31 16:24:14
291.   Andrew Shimmin
290- He's soft on Alberto Bastardo, too.
2008-01-31 16:26:56
292.   bhsportsguy
278 Denial, yes I think so, not that you can believe everything you hear and read but there has been nothing said this off-season that leads me to believe that the Dodgers were actively seeking a trade for Pierre. Lots of stuff written by bloggers and rumormongers but otherwise, nothing.
2008-01-31 16:31:08
293.   bhsportsguy
There is a joke here somewhere. Story about Super Bowl ads in today's LA Times has this sentence about

(The rejected ad featured [Danica] Patrick and a beaver, according to Advertising Age, which provided no more details.)

2008-01-31 16:38:51
294.   madmac
257 and for others fond of the 80's, can listen to some streaming 80's radio from KROQ 106.7
2008-01-31 16:41:03
295.   Jon Weisman
So no one noticed my Crystal and Danica McKellar references at Season Pass?
2008-01-31 16:47:20
296.   Jim Hitchcock
254 I don't know, loathing for disco is still a key ingredient of my emotional state.
2008-01-31 16:48:26
297.   D4P
Looks fun.

VH1 Classic is showing "Sixteen Candles" in less than 15 minutes. Love that movie.

"I know this, much is true-ue..."

2008-01-31 16:50:06
298.   D4P
Did you know that both Crystal McKellar and Josh Saviano went on to Ivy League educations and now work as attorneys?
2008-01-31 16:50:35
299.   Bob Timmermann
I did, but I wasn't sure how to acknowledge it.

I'm looking forward to tonight's "In Treatment." I'm a big Embeth Davidtz fan.

2008-01-31 16:51:18
300.   Jon Weisman
298 - I knew that vaugely, though I never connected the two.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-01-31 16:51:27
301.   Jon Weisman
2008-01-31 16:53:29
302.   Jim Hitchcock
299 Just saw her in Gingerbread Man. Played evil well.
2008-01-31 16:54:52
303.   ToyCannon
I'm having a hard time getting a handle on this version of D4P. Did you start some new medicine?

Prospect talk is my favorite. If they only stayed young forever and didn't become JtD's and dissapoint their parents.

2008-01-31 16:55:58
304.   bhsportsguy
298 I can confirm that Crystal McKellar is working at a NY law firm after getting her undergraduate degree from Yale and her law degree from Harvard.

Not sure how much fun she is having doing litigation work there but its a living.

2008-01-31 16:57:17
305.   fanerman
303 It's clear someone has highjacked D4P's computer.
2008-01-31 16:57:25
306.   bhsportsguy
303 The scary thing is that JtD right now is the exception and outside of injuries, still waiting for that first disappointment from the Logan White era.
2008-01-31 16:57:42
307.   D4P
I like some stuff.
2008-01-31 16:58:15
308.   Daniel Zappala
259 I still have a whole bunch of LPs from the 80s. Someday I will catalog them and record them to CD. They range from Depeche Mode to Suzanne Vega to Billy Joel to REM to Stephen Duffy.
2008-01-31 16:59:28
309.   ToyCannon
I wonder if his wife put him down after learning something in Dexter or Breaking Bad and we have an imposter on our hands.
2008-01-31 17:00:13
310.   Daniel Zappala
Personally, I think D4P just had his dissertation approved.
2008-01-31 17:00:57
311.   D4P
They range from Depeche Mode to Suzanne Vega to Billy Joel to REM to Stephen Duffy

Never heard of Stephen Duffy, but the rest sounds good. I actually won the Suzanne Vega tape with "Luka" on it from the radio station, but I had no way to get to the station to pick it up so I never got to claim my "major award".

2008-01-31 17:01:44
312.   ToyCannon
I have lots of LPs from the 80's but they range from the Cramps to X. I think I've downloaded just about every song on my LP's so I'm not sure if it would be worth ripping them anymore.
2008-01-31 17:01:49
313.   bhsportsguy
Let me ask this, I have probably seen all of 10 minutes of Lost since the beginning, since I still have a few months before Opening Day, is it worth it to get the DVDs and watch this show.
2008-01-31 17:01:55
314.   underdog
80s New Wave and College Alt Rock = great stuff
80s top 40 music and AOR = gack

I'm just glad to see D4P happy, whether or not it's because of Molly Ringwald.

2008-01-31 17:03:13
315.   D4P
I think D4P just had his dissertation approved

Funny you should mention that. My advisor approved my last 2 chapters the other day, and I now have a defense date set up. Plus, I found out earlier today that my first article submission was accepted for publication, only needing minor revisions.

However, one of the reviewers identified an issue that I've been worried about and hoping no one would ever notice. Not sure what's gonna happen with that.

2008-01-31 17:04:25
316.   underdog
You can watch the hour-long "catch you up" special before the season premiere tonight bh and see if that helps, either catch you up or sway you to rent it.

imho, season 1 is fantastic, season 2 less so, season 3 half okay and half (the second half, after the writers responded to some of the frequent fan complaints and speed things up a little) pretty great, too.

2008-01-31 17:05:07
317.   fanerman
313 If you're not sure you could just netflix them. If you don't have netflix you could do a trial thing.
2008-01-31 17:07:00
318.   D4P
Kinda funny to think that John Cusack went on to be the biggest star from 16 Candles.
2008-01-31 17:10:07
319.   Bob Timmermann
Doesn't that tend to happen a lot if you're the most talented actor in the bunch?
2008-01-31 17:10:18
320.   Jon Weisman
316 - Lost is all good, bhsportsguy. Don't listen to those crybaby fans who have no patience :)
2008-01-31 17:10:39
321.   Jon Weisman
319 - That was my reaction.
2008-01-31 17:10:49
322.   Daniel Zappala
311 Stephen Duffy was otherwise known as "Tin Tin" and later sang under his own name and also Lilac Time.

Whoever posted the link to KROQ, thank you! That's what I grew up listening to.

2008-01-31 17:11:43
323.   D4P
You mean like how Britney Spears became the most successful Mickey Mouse Club girl?
2008-01-31 17:12:07
324.   Daniel Zappala
318 I used to think it was Molly Ringwald, but then I saw her in a Broadway Across America tour of Sweet Charity and she was awful. The rest of the cast was fantastic.

I was really bummed, because like every other teen of the time, I was in love with her and Ally Sheedy.

2008-01-31 17:12:38
325.   Daniel Zappala
315 Congrats!
2008-01-31 17:15:40
326.   Jon Weisman
323 - Actually, like Keri Russell did (with apologies to Christina Aguilera fans).
2008-01-31 17:17:37
327.   Eric Enders
Nobody ever owes Christina Aguilera fans an apology. For anything.
2008-01-31 17:18:33
328.   fanerman
313 I'd recommend not watching the recap or any of season 4 (and not looking up any information on the internet about the TV show, even biographies about the actors) until you catch up. If you decide to watch it. Season 1 is consistently excellent, as underdog said. You'll know if you want to keep watching after the first couple episodes. Maybe even after the pilot.
2008-01-31 17:19:01
329.   underdog
Eh, I have patience and didn't mind most of the slower parts (though the flashbacks became more wearying to me in season 2 and early season 3) but I still think 1 and 3 are better than 2. So there!

317 You can also GreenCine it. :-P Email me for a free trial.

Oh man... now I'm gonna be thinking about Keri Russell while at the gym. Damn you, Jon, damn you something fierce! Wait, maybe it's good I'm going to the gym.

2008-01-31 17:19:09
330.   D4P
Thanks, D. It will all seem very anti-climactic if I don't get a job.

The bigger point is that talent is neither necessary nor sufficient for success.

2008-01-31 17:19:27
331.   Eric Enders
Kinda funny how Joan Cusack eventually became the second-biggest star from Sixteen Candles.
2008-01-31 17:19:46
332.   trainwreck
Isn't Justin Timberlake the most talented Mickey Mouse Club alum?
2008-01-31 17:20:31
333.   ToyCannon
Big fan of Cusack and his sister. Not sure if I've seen a movie of his I didn't like but I thought the best actor was the guy who is doing 3 1/2 men:)

I look at Ally Sheedy in those movies and I wonder why I liked her.

Wasn't a fan of Keri Russel until I saw the Waitress.

2008-01-31 17:20:49
334.   Jon Weisman
324 - Sorry to say, Daniel, that I never had much affection for Molly. Didn't dislike her, but she was just not my cup of tea.

My affection for Ally peaked with War Games and her guest appearance as a Catholic schoolgirl who tries to seduce J.D. on Hill Street Blues. That evoked the classic line from Taurean Blacque.

"Just three words, babe. Statu. Tory. Rape."

2008-01-31 17:21:31
335.   Jon Weisman
332 - "girl" was the criterion mentioned in 323.

I'll take Ryan Gosling over Timberlake, though.

2008-01-31 17:23:35
336.   Eric Enders
The poster of 319 will now be required to explain why Emilio Estevez became the biggest star from The Breakfast Club.
2008-01-31 17:23:56
337.   bhsportsguy
334 With a toothpick in his mouth no less.

Bob Newhart Show fans will recognize Tauren from his appearances during the latter part of the series as one of the "Cons" Bob counsels.

2008-01-31 17:24:50
338.   ToyCannon
Having never watched the MMC I'm just astounded at the names you guys are saying were alumni. Ryan Gosling? Keri Russel? I guess being embarrassed during those years is worthwhile if it is that big a springboard.
2008-01-31 17:25:49
339.   ToyCannon
Because no one really had talent in that movie?
2008-01-31 17:28:31
340.   trainwreck
What about Lisa Whelchel, who played Blair on "The Facts of Life?"


2008-01-31 17:28:55
341.   ToyCannon
The family of Xeifrank is wondering why a a tormented lament is coming from his office. Prospect talk interrupted by MMC talk. Yikes
2008-01-31 17:29:41
342.   bhsportsguy
338 During the 1990's the latest version came out.

During the 6th and 7th seasons, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake, JC Chasez, Keri Russell, and Ryan Gosling were all cast members and Jessica Simpson and Countess Vaughn were finalists but did not make it onto the show.

2008-01-31 17:31:06
343.   trainwreck
I would still take Jennifer Love Hewitt from Kids Incorporated any day.

Forget talent.

2008-01-31 17:31:35
344.   Daniel Zappala
339 Fans of the 80s ask you to please wash out your mouth.
2008-01-31 17:31:36
345.   trainwreck
Matt Damon was a finalist too.
2008-01-31 17:31:47
346.   bhsportsguy
340 You are not old enough to be recapping Facts of Life.

However it is relevant since former cast member George Clooney is now doing his thing for the United Nations.

George, one thing, do not allow anyone there to see those episodes, your credibility as a spokesman for world peace will be ruined.

2008-01-31 17:32:44
347.   trainwreck
I watched Facts of Life re-runs as a child.
2008-01-31 17:34:09
348.   Bob Timmermann
The Breakfast Club makes me want to forget about you.
2008-01-31 17:34:40
349.   bhsportsguy
343 I hope you were no older than 12 when you got your first crush on JLH since she was 10-12 years old during her time on the show.
2008-01-31 17:35:22
350.   Daniel Zappala
341 We could talk food instead. Working on breaded catfish filets and rice pilaf for dinner.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-01-31 17:35:44
351.   ToyCannon
I watched it in the 80's and was unimpressed with the angst of being a teenager. Now Valley Girl, that was a movie.
2008-01-31 17:36:09
352.   bhsportsguy
350 Ever make risotto, its quite easy and more tasty than rice pilaf.
2008-01-31 17:37:40
353.   ToyCannon
Keith Law feels that Chilean Sea Bass from Whole Food Market is the cats meow when it comes to fish.
2008-01-31 17:40:00
354.   D4P
Chilean Sea Bass from Whole Food Market

I like either the Alaskan wild caught salmon or the tilapia.

Wait: you're trying to distract me!

2008-01-31 17:40:04
355.   trainwreck
She is older than me, so I have always been in the clear.
2008-01-31 17:40:59
356.   bhsportsguy
353 I'm surprised no one challenged him that there is no such fish called Chilean Sea Bass. I think they moved on to another species because the first one was being overfished.
2008-01-31 17:42:44
357.   bhsportsguy
355 On another topic, isn't it amazing that with all the concern about recruiting, UCLA could end up losing only 2 of its original verbal commits (and both of those are probably ones they would have lost anyway) plus get some additional ones that no one talked about until they committed.
2008-01-31 17:43:34
358.   D4P
Since we're talking The 80s, we could always rekindle our "leg warmers" discussion.
2008-01-31 17:43:58
359.   bhsportsguy
354 You could not pick 2 more distinct fishes, one out on the wild rivers and Pacific Ocean in Alaska, the other on some fish farm eating supplements.
2008-01-31 17:45:20
360.   ToyCannon
If that is what they call it in Whole Foods then he's in the clear. He did make it clear that it was purchased from a reputable fish farm and was not caught in the wild.
2008-01-31 17:45:25
361.   trainwreck
Rick can sell that is for sure. Quite the amazing turn around indeed. Of course, games still need to played.
2008-01-31 17:47:27
362.   Daniel Zappala
Actually, my kids are having tilapia, since they prefer that.

I do need to brush up on my risotto skills.

2008-01-31 17:47:28
363.   ToyCannon
Scary but I'm with D4P. Those are my two favorite fish.

The Salton Sea used to have Tilapia because they were one of the few fish that could live in that environment. Unless I'm wrong, which is possible.

2008-01-31 17:50:16
364.   fanerman
362 How many do you have to buy for one course of dinner?
2008-01-31 17:53:46
365.   D4P
No kidding. Tilapia's gonna be on the Endangered Species List.
2008-01-31 17:57:12
366.   Daniel Zappala
I miss Midnight Oil.
2008-01-31 17:58:52
367.   Daniel Zappala
364 , 365 You guys are kidding, right? You don't think I buy them, do you? We have to own our own fish farm, dairy, and greenhouse to feed these guys. We barter for meat and poultry with the neighbors.
2008-01-31 18:01:29
368.   fanerman
367 So does that mean you live in a neighborhood/county/small country of families as big as yours? Are these families of your siblings?
2008-01-31 18:03:22
369.   Daniel Zappala
Sometimes I forget why I used to like the Cure and then I hear "Love Cats" and I remember.
2008-01-31 18:04:27
370.   Daniel Zappala
368 I live in the land of Utah, a land like no other.
2008-01-31 18:04:57
371.   Daniel Zappala
Oingo Boingo, how could I forget them?! I have one of their LPs too.
2008-01-31 18:08:43
372.   trainwreck
I was waiting for someone to mention Oingo Boingo, plus you already mentioned Depeche Mode, so Daniel rules.
2008-01-31 18:09:11
373.   D4P
Cure songs that I both know and like (I don't know very many):

Just Like Heaven
Love Song
Friday I'm in Love (not as good as the first two, but still fun)

2008-01-31 18:11:01
374.   Andrew Shimmin
Catfish is a delivery mechanism for hushpuppies. Any other side dish is wrong.
2008-01-31 18:11:02
375.   paranoidandroid
373 The Love Cats?
2008-01-31 18:12:21
376.   Bluebleeder87
My ex-girlfriend from high school loved the cure specially the song close to me, I really like them but it's a love hate thing I guess, I don't know how to explain it.
2008-01-31 18:13:41
377.   D4P
I don't know "The Love Cats".
2008-01-31 18:14:19
378.   CanuckDodger
Oingo Boingo -- love them. Long thought that that their "No One Lives Forever" would make perfect entrance music for a closer.
2008-01-31 18:16:03
379.   fanerman
376 Does the love-hate have to do with your ex-girlfriend?
2008-01-31 18:17:22
380.   Bluebleeder87
The Cure songs I love hate:

The Cure-Just Like Heaven
The Cure - Lovesong
The Cure - letter to elise (really brings back memories)
The Cure - Boys don't cry.

2008-01-31 18:34:50
381.   Daniel Zappala
371 I have had a few people over to listen to my Depeche Mode LP collection, which is heavy on their early years. Most are (a) amazed I have that many Depeche mode records they've never seen or heard before, (b) rapturous to hear them.
2008-01-31 18:35:52
382.   Bluebleeder87
I'm looking forward to the True Blue/DT (Coliseum) gathering, that should be plenty fun.
2008-01-31 18:37:54
383.   Daniel Zappala
Heaven: five feet of new snow in the mountains, and a day without school for my kids tomorrow so I can take them skiing in the greatest powder on earth.
2008-01-31 18:39:57
384.   Andrew Shimmin
383- This is why I don't worry much about being damned.
2008-01-31 18:43:24
385.   Marty
Thank you TC for bringing up the Cramps. So many great songs.

Most of the 80s music deserves to be on the ash heap of history. The 80s ruined KROQ

2008-01-31 18:45:08
386.   Eric Enders
Wait. I thought I learned last month that the greatest powder on earth is Mexican Coke.
2008-01-31 18:57:55
387.   Eric Enders
385 "Most of the 80s music deserves to be on the ash heap of history."

The '80s gave us Nebraska, London Calling, Document, and Joshua Tree. Whatever the decade's other sins, they will be forgiven.

2008-01-31 19:17:28
388.   Charenton
I played around with the BP top 100 prospect list, and using nothing but the ratings given, tried to rank the total prospects of each of the 30 MLB teams - trying to find an equilibrium between quality and quantity..

The Dodgers, with 2 players in the top 15, should be considered to have the 4th (or at worst 5th) best group of prospects. The number after each team name is
the corresponding number of top 25/top 26-50/top 51-100 on each team… of course, the number in front of each prospect's name is his original ranking in the BP top 100 list.

With 6 of the top 25 prospects, when should we be expecting Tampa Bay to be playing better than .500 ball for the first time? It should be soon , no?

3. Evan Longoria, 3b, Rays
6. David Price, lhp, Rays
15. Wade Davis, rhp, Rays
18. Desmond Jennings, of, Rays
25. Reid Brignac, ss, Rays
40. Jacob McGee, lhp, Rays

2. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Red Sox
16. Jacoby Ellsbury, of, Red Sox
53. Justin Masterson, rhp, Red Sox
57. Jed Lowrie, ss, Red Sox
60. Ryan Kalish, of, Red Sox
95. Michael Bowden, rhp, Red Sox
100. Lars Anderson, 1b, Red Sox

1. Jay Bruce, of, Reds
9. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds
21. Joey Votto, 1b, Reds
41. Johnny Cueto, rhp, Reds

5. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers
14. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers
32. Chin-Lung Hu, ss, Dodgers
66. Scott Elbert, lhp, Dodgers

4. Joba Chamberlain, rhp, Yankees
34. Ian Kennedy, rhp, Yankees
47. Austin Jackson, of, Yankees
48. Jose Tabata, of, Yankees
67. Alan Horne, rhp, Yankees

17. Jordan Schafer, of, Braves
36. Jason Heyward, of, Braves
63. Brent Lillibridge, ss, Braves
70. Brandon Jones, of, Braves
83. Gorkys Hernandez, of, Braves
86. Jair Jurrjens, rhp, Braves

22. Daric Barton, 1b, Athletics
26. Carlos Gonzalez, of, Athletics
46. Fautino de los Santos, rhp, Athletics
50. Brett Anderson, lhp, Athletics
56. Gio Gonzalez, lhp, Athletics
98. Trevor Cahill, rhp, Athletics
99. Chris Carter, 1b, Athletics

30. Neftali Feliz, rhp, Rangers
49. Eric Hurley, rhp, Rangers
58. Elvis Andrus, ss, Rangers
77. Taylor Teagarden, c, Rangers
74. Chris Davis, 3b, Rangers
62. Engel Beltre, of, Rangers
73. Michael Main, rhp, Rangers

13. Franklin Morales, lhp, Rockies
80. Chris Nelson, ss, Rockies
82. Greg Reynolds, rhp, Rockies
91. Casey Weathers, rhp, Rockies
92. Dexter Fowler, of, Rockies

27. Nick Adenhart, rhp, Angels
38. Brandon Wood, 3b/ss, Angels
59. Jordan Walden, rhp, Angels
89. Hank Conger, c, Angels

33. Jeff Clement, c, Mariners
44. Chris Tillman, rhp, Mariners
55. Carlos Triunfel, ss, Mariners
93. Wladimir Balentien, of, Mariners

8. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals
69. Chris Perez, rhp, Cardinals
71. Bryan Anderson, c, Cardinals

23. Chase Headley, 3b, Padres
39. Matt Antonelli, 2b, Padres
61. Matt Latos, rhp, Padres

12. Matt Wieters, c, Orioles
75. Chorye Spoone, rhp, Orioles
85. Radhames Liz, rhp, Orioles

24. Andrew McCutchen, of, Pirates
43. Steven Pearce, 1b, Pirates
94. Neil Walker, 3b, Pirates

28. Chris Marrero, of/1b, Nationals
35. Ross Detwiler, lhp, Nationals
81. Michael Burgess, of, Nationals

20. Jarrod Parker, rhp, Diamondbacks
64. Gerardo Parra, of, Diamondbacks
90. Max Scherzer, rhp, Diamondbacks

9. Mike Moustakas, ss, Royals
72. Luke Hochevar, rhp, Royals

10. Cameron Maybin, of, Marlins
88. Chris Volstad, rhp, Marlins

31. Matt LaPorta, of, Brewers
42. Manny Parra, lhp, Brewers
76. Jeremy Jeffress, rhp, Brewers

37. Geovany Soto, c, Cubs
45. Josh Vitters, 3b, Cubs

7. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays

11. Rick Porcello, rhp, Tigers

29. Angel Villalona, 3b, Giants
84. Henry Sosa, rhp, Giants

65. Carlos Gomez, of, Twins
79. Deolis Guerra, rhp, Twins
97. Ben Revere, of, Twins

52. Adam Miller, rhp, Indians
78. Wes Hodges, 3b, Indians

68. Carlos Carrasco, rhp, Phillies
96. Joe Savery, lhp, Phillies

51. Fernando Martinez, of, Mets

54. J.R. Towles, c, Astros

87. Aaron Poreda, lhp, White Sox

2008-01-31 19:36:20
389.   Bob Timmermann
Fox Prime Ticket is using a play-by-play guy, two analysts, and two sideline reporters for one college basketball game.

The Arizona-based guy, Tom Kuiper, specializes in shouting.

2008-01-31 19:52:10
390.   Jon Weisman
Wow, UCLA got off to a good start.
2008-01-31 19:52:56
391.   ToyCannon
All that deserves some type of Kudo's. How about the Tampa pitching plus the best infield prospect. Can't wait to see how it unfolds.

Oingo Boingo had so many members in the early years. Not My Slave one of my favorite songs in the later years. Who knew Elfman was going to become the most prolific film composer of my generation.

Hated the Cure. Couldn't get past the voice. I tried but was unable to connect.

2008-01-31 19:59:36
392.   Bob Timmermann
It also helped that ASU couldn't figure out what to do on offense.

But what's the deal with the floor level camera angle with the camera shooting up? I want to watch a basketball game, not see a recreation of "The Third Man."

2008-01-31 19:59:47
393.   Rob M
Anybody want to take a shot at guessing Goldstein's top Dodgers under 25 list, including those in the bigs? I'm curious who is #1 between Martin, Kemp and Kershaw. Also wondering where Loney and Bills fit in among the top prospects. I'm pretty confident that this list will be more impressive than any other than the Rays.
2008-01-31 20:02:59
394.   trainwreck
Nice, I thought Lost was 2 hour premiere. Now I can watch UCLA game in peace.
2008-01-31 20:09:35
395.   Bluebleeder87
I just saw that Beimels arbitration hearing is set for feb '2, I really think Beimel & his agent are playing it wrong (there gonna lose) they should just take the 1.7 mill & call it a win.
2008-01-31 20:10:09
396.   ToyCannon
We did it a few days ago. Martin will not qualify as he's to old for Goldsteins list according to Canuck. Still an impressive list and will be even more impressive next season.

Lotta Love going on in this game. Kind of a catch-22 for UCLA fans. The better Love plays the more likely he'll be a Clipper next season:)

2008-01-31 20:11:33
397.   ToyCannon
Glad your going. You'll be the only person I know other then my niece.
2008-01-31 20:17:14
399.   trainwreck
Kevin Love's family decided that he was going pro after his freshman year, while he was in high school.
2008-01-31 20:18:57
400.   madmac
I saw Oingo Boingo at the Hult Center in Eugene. Ring a bell D4P? Hey D4P, I know you are a couple years younger than me, but do you recall the Crazy 8's.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-01-31 20:36:31
401.   Gen3Blue
Perhaps being idealistic, but I'm beginning to hope we can use a Hu-Abreu DP combination as they seemed to thrill our minor league venues. I guess it would take our young power to develop, and perhaps a premium acqusition. I guess Abreu has too many AB's for these prospect discussions.
Both these guys seem to still be improving offensively, despite Abreu's MiL lagging in power and Hu's lagging in OBP. I guess I can hope.
2008-01-31 20:42:43
402.   trainwreck
Probably a good chance you will get to see that DP combination. The better our young guys perform, the more likely it is that Ned will start to trust all of them.
2008-01-31 20:49:30
403.   Gen3Blue
Lets hope for a good year for Hu and Abreu. I've been hoping their bot in LA but it might be better if they both played every day. I just hope Lucille II doesn't mess them up.
2008-01-31 20:49:47
404.   trainwreck
This game is murder.
2008-01-31 20:50:56
405.   Bob Timmermann
Wazzu loses at home to Cal. So with Stanford headed for a win, the Cardinal will have second to themselves, one game behind UCLA.

The USC-Unnamed School winner will be tied with Wazzu for third.

2008-01-31 20:56:42
406.   Gen3Blue
Regarding 403, I'm sorry for the spelling, but not the sentiment.
2008-01-31 20:59:58
407.   trainwreck
I guess I won't have to worry about UCLA game, while watching Lost.
2008-01-31 21:36:08
408.   Rob M
396 Can anybody point me to that discussion? What thread is it in?
2008-01-31 21:50:02
409.   Xeifrank
Anybody else think OJ Mayo might be a little bit overrated? Caught bits and pieces of the game and his defense looked awful. He was half heartidly gaurding his man, who could blow by him to the basket at will. Perhaps he's just out of shape, I don't know. His jump shot didn't impress me and he didn't seem able to create his own shot, SC was always running him off of a pick to get an open look.
vr, Xei
2008-01-31 21:58:59
410.   Samhain
Re: 333,334

Never liked Ally Sheedy at all until I saw her in the indy feature "High Art", for which she was nominated for an indy Best Actress Spirit award. She was sensational in that.
Haven't seen her in anything since that I liked her in, though.

But "High Art" did prove she could act very effectively indeed. Pretty good "art house" film, as such films used to be called...

Did you see it, Jon?

2008-01-31 22:03:33
411.   Jon Weisman
Okay, Lost chat is open at Season Pass - head on over!

2008-01-31 22:14:57
412.   Jon Weisman
410 - I saw a little of it on cable once. Not the whole thing.
2008-01-31 22:20:19
413.   LAT
Let's not forget Squeeze and Coffeein Bed.
Did anyone else own the Split Endz LP with the laser etching in the album.
2008-01-31 22:23:32
414.   LAT

Red Mango on Pico is open.

(LAT's take: Red Mango better than Pinkberry. Big Chill better than Red mango.)

2008-01-31 22:29:20
415.   Jon Weisman
Alex Cora had a DUI. Who knew?

2008-01-31 22:30:05
416.   Andrew Shimmin
Where do we go to gripe about television shows perpetuating the vaccines cause autism myth?
2008-01-31 22:31:20
417.   bhsportsguy
414 Now I have somewhere to go after the UCLA/AZ game on Saturday,

413 "Tempted" is on my Ipod most played list.

But then I also have Go West and Tears For Fears (ok, just Everybody Gots To Rule The World), maybe I should add the boys from down under next.

2008-01-31 22:42:43
418.   LAT
Go West. I forgot all about them. They actually had a lot of big songs. Tell the truth any Go Gos on that Ipod.
2008-01-31 22:47:49
419.   bhsportsguy
418 Not yet.
2008-01-31 22:52:15
420.   jasonungar07
I recall seeing the video In a Big Country, by Big Country when they were cruising Scotland on ATV's and saying, yeah I like them a little more than those dudes from Ireland who were singing about Bloody Sundays. Shows what I knew. Plus, those dreams stayed with me. Like a lover's voice, fires the mountainside..
2008-01-31 22:53:42
421.   jasonungar07
I went on to buy, what 7 U2 albums?? and I never even bought the "in a big country" 45, let alone the whole record.
2008-01-31 23:06:13
422.   underdog
The Official Underdog's 15 Favorite 80s Bands (That Got Him Through Junior High and High School) Even Though No One Asked List:

Echo and the Bunnymen
The Smiths
Split Enz
Big Country
Midnight Oil
The Waterboys
Talking Heads
The Cure
The Clash
English Beat
The Specials
Elvis Costello
Oh, yeah, and U2, too.


Where (and when) I went to h.s., pretty boy types with long bangs were called "Spandaus."

2008-01-31 23:08:20
423.   underdog
Amazing to see Kevin Everett on the news today, walking and talking, wow, what a story.
2008-02-01 00:12:54
424.   Bob Timmermann
RIP (apparently) my laptop.

I'm using a backup computer.

2008-02-01 00:45:07
425.   bhsportsguy
424 How long did it last, mine is going on 2+ years and I'm beginning to worry about it.
2008-02-01 04:18:35
426.   D4P
I saw Oingo Boingo at the Hult Center in Eugene. Ring a bell D4P? Hey D4P, I know you are a couple years younger than me, but do you recall the Crazy 8's.

Oingo Boingo at the Hult Center doesn't ring a bell, but the Hult Center itself certainly. I actually performed in plays at the Hult Center in elementary school.

Don't recall the Crazy 8's.

2008-02-01 04:33:29
427.   D4P
Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer". I always preferred "Big Time".

The videos for Toto's "Hold the Line" and Survivor's "Eye of the Tiger" were hilarious.

2008-02-01 05:59:58
428.   Bob Timmermann
The computer is a little over three years old I think.

I froze up trying to load a webpage and I couldn't use any Mac shortcut to stop it. So I eventually tried turning it off. Off works.

Going back on has proved troublesome. The computer won't boot up and the sound the hard disk is making is not promising.

2008-02-01 06:40:25
429.   D4P
"Heart and Soul" by T'Pau.

Haven't thought of that one in a while.

2008-02-01 06:48:51
430.   old dodger fan
7 hours till the Santana deadline.
Is this a self imposed deadline or does it come from MLB? If they are close but don't have a deal is there anything to keep them from extending it if they both agree?
2008-02-01 07:12:57
431.   ToyCannon
Couldn't find the exact comment area. DT search engine isn't exactly robust. It will get you the thread link but then you have to surf all the comments to find the subject you were looking for. It is great if you just want to find something in one of Jon's posts but kinda of useless if your looking for something in the comments unless you have a lot of time on your hands since Jon's posts seem to have several 100 comments everyday. It is possible I'm not using the search engine correctly.
2008-02-01 07:57:12
432.   Xeifrank
Microsoft makes bid for Yahoo! Yahoo! up 45% today. vr, Xei
2008-02-01 08:11:36
433.   cargill06
predictions for sundays game
2008-02-01 08:15:12
434.   Penarol1916
416. I don't know, but that is the entire reason I did not watch that show and plan to never start. I am a pretty big fan of Berlanti too.
2008-02-01 08:31:46
435.   D4P
Was browsing upcoming album releases, and ran across the following (submitted without comment):

20 May Tuesday
Scarlett Johansson Anywhere I Lay My Head

2008-02-01 08:33:08
436.   Bob Timmermann
For those scoring at home, DJ Houlton will be pitching for the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks next year.
2008-02-01 08:36:12
437.   D4P
Those Japanese sure do like their "Fuk" sounds.
2008-02-01 08:41:15
438.   madmac
I actually performed in plays at the Hult Center in elementary school

It's been a long time, but do recall crossing paths with a guy named DJ Graham?

2008-02-01 08:42:23
439.   D4P
How old is he? I remember a DJ Bragg, but not Graham.
2008-02-01 08:44:46
440.   madmac
439 he'd be about 37 now. I know he was in Peter Pan which I believe was done at the Hult Center. I believe he did a couple other plays as well.
2008-02-01 08:47:16
441.   D4P
I don't think my school did Peter Pan, at least not while I was there. The two I really remember are "The Saga of Dead Dog Gulch" and "A Summer's Midnight Dream", which was loosely based on "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
2008-02-01 08:47:48
442.   Bob Timmermann
Actually they like "fu" sounds and they really like "ka" sounds.
2008-02-01 08:51:22
443.   Rob M
431 Sometimes I wish DT was set up like a message board rather than comment threads after posts. I've been coming here for about 3 years now, but I'm not here all the time and I'm usually lost in terms of knowing what's already been posted. Perusing thread topics in a message board makes it a lot easier to keep discussions going over days on particular topics and makes it easier for people to converse without having to be here in real time.
2008-02-01 08:52:08
444.   madmac
441 ah, Dead Dog Gulch. Think I played a miner or something like that at my school. Good ole Page Elementary.

The Peter Pan production was non-school event.

2008-02-01 08:54:14
445.   D4P
I think I was a miner too. I think my name was "Coffee Cup". I think there was square-dancing involved, which was actually convenient because I got to dance with the girl I had a crush on at the time.

Where is Page Elementary? I don't remember that...

2008-02-01 08:58:06
446.   madmac
445 Page is located in Springfield on Hayden Bridge Rd. Went to Guy Lee for one year though. Was a Logger in Middle School and a Miller in High School.
2008-02-01 09:01:00
447.   D4P
Ah, Springfield. That explains it. Loggers and Millers. Nice. My favorite mascot is the Billies, from Pleasant Hill.

I was an Armadillo, followed by (I think?) a Pioneer (or some such thing) and then an Irish.

2008-02-01 09:08:40
448.   LAT
Nobody has had a worse run of school mascots than I have.

High School: The Quakers
College: The Catamounts (still not exactly sure what that is)
Law School: The Waves or Willie the Wave.

Not a redeaming mascot in the bunch. (hangs head in shame)

2008-02-01 09:08:42
449.   madmac
447 Didn't Sheldon have a radio station? I seem to recall knowing someone who worked/volunteered there.
2008-02-01 09:10:44
450.   D4P
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we did. I never listened to it.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-02-01 09:12:50
451.   LAT
Go West's "We Close Our Eyes" keeps bouncing around my head this morning.
2008-02-01 09:17:14
452.   Penarol1916
448. I've got you beat by a lot.

High School: Kewpies (as in kewpie doll and even more embarassing it was adopted because our basketball team kept smiling like a bunch of kewpie dolls while getting killed in a game).

College: Hoyas

Masters: Maroons

2008-02-01 09:17:37
453.   old dodger fan
448 It is a type of wildcat, like a bobcat. I think Western Carolina and Vermont are the only 2 schools that use that name. Correct?
2008-02-01 09:19:01
454.   cargill06
443 agreed
2008-02-01 09:21:09
455.   D4P
Guy On The Internet's take on the worst names in college sports (entitled, "Is Maroons the Worst Name in College Sports?")

8. Akron Zips
7. Syracuse Orangement
6. UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs
5. All of the Wildcats (because there are so many)
4. Tulane Green Wave
3. UC Irvine Anteaters
2. Oregon State Beavers
1. Stanford Cardinal

2008-02-01 09:23:10
456.   Samhain

Or you sure about catamount?
I was certain it was another of the many words for "mountain lion" (e.g puma, cougar to name just a couple more..

2008-02-01 09:27:57
457.   bhsportsguy
Today's exciting debate via chat is which Joe will do better this year, Joe G. in NYC or Joe T. in LA.
2008-02-01 09:29:40
458.   old dodger fan
456 From the Western Carolina University website:
"Webster's Dictionary defines "catamount" as "any of various wild cats such as a cougar or lynx." Cats of the catamount variety, including the bobcat, have roamed the southern Appalachian Mountains, where Western Carolina University is located, for years."
2008-02-01 09:39:37
459.   Rob M
The Dodger list is up at BP. Looking at the top 10 under 25, Lu, who is a 5 star prospect, is at #7. That gives the Dodgers 7 five star youngsters. The Rays only had 8, so we're pretty close.
2008-02-01 09:48:24
460.   bhsportsguy
459 James Adkins squeezed in at No. 11 on the list, otherwise it was pretty much with you expected.

Also, if (and there are always ifs, if Elbert is healthy, they do have another 5 star guy.

The list, Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu, Elbert, McDonald, Bell, Withrow, Meloan, DeJesus, Dewitt and Adkins.

If you are scoring at home, that is 1 each from the 2002 and 2003 draft, 2 from the 2004 draft, 3 from the 2005 draft, 1 from the 2006 draft and 2 from the 2007 draft with Hu being an international free agent.

The top 10 at 24 and under list was pretty much what everyone expected, with Billingsley, Kemp, Loney and Broxton joining the top 6 from this years list.

2008-02-01 09:49:28
461.   Penarol1916
James Adkins as a 3-star prospect and Michael Watt just missing the list are two that surprise me a little bit.
2008-02-01 09:53:33
462.   bhsportsguy
460 One more thing, only Hu and LaRoche will be ineligible for the Top 10 at 24 or younger list next season.
2008-02-01 09:57:41
463.   bhsportsguy
Really a remarkable showing by Logan White and staff if you look at the drafts.

2002 - Loney, Broxton, McDonald and Martin
2003 - Billingsley, Kemp, and LaRoche
2004 - Elbert and Dewitt
2005 - DeJesus, Meloan and Bell
2006 - Kershaw
2007 - Withrow, Adkins, Lambo and Watt

And that is not including Greg Miller, Bryan Morris, and the last round of international signees including Pedro Baez.

2008-02-01 10:00:15
464.   Jon Weisman
2008-02-01 10:00:32
465.   LAT
452. You win. The Maroons takes it. Of course, anyone unlucky enugh to attend to UC Santa Cruz, UC Irvine and the University of Chicago would own the holy trifecta of bad mascots. Its like having the lock low in poker.
2008-02-01 10:00:50
466.   LAT

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