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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

How Jackie Robinson Got Tommy Davis From the Yankees
2008-02-01 09:48
by Jon Weisman

Dylan Hernandez of the Times passes along this story from Thursday's Jackie Robinson Legacy Day:

So influential was Jackie Robinson that a single phone call from him to Tommy Davis changed the course of Davis' life. ...

Davis recounted how as a high school senior in Brooklyn, he was days away from signing with the New York Yankees when he received a call from Robinson.

Davis recalled turning to his mother with the phone still pressed to his ear and saying, "Jackie Robinson's on the phone! Jackie Robinson's on the phone! Jackie Robinson's on the phone!"

Said Davis: "He was trying to tell me of the advantages of playing for the Dodgers. I didn't hear and I didn't care."

Two days later, he signed with the Dodgers.

Hernandez goes on to describe Thursday's event, which was organized by the Dodgers' chief marketing officer, Charles Steinberg. Steinberg created a similar event in (of all places, as Bob Timmermann points out) Fenway Park. Thursday would have been Robinson's 89th birthday.

* * *

An update on ticket prices comes from Bill Shaikin of the Times.

For the first time, $10 will not be enough to admit an adult into Dodger Stadium or Angel Stadium on the day of a game. The Dodgers have increased the game-day price of tickets in the left field pavilion to $13 and in the top deck to $11. The Angels have raised the price in the right field pavilion and on the upper view level to $12, although children can sit in right field for $5.

Tickets for the March 29 Coliseum exhibition officially go on sale Saturday.

* * *

More prospect lists: Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus presents his Dodger Top 11, along with his top 10 Dodgers under the age of 25. Here's the latter:

1. Chad Billingsley, RHP
2. Clayton Kershaw, LHP
3. Matt Kemp, OF
4. James Loney, 1B
5. Andy LaRoche, 3B
6. Jonathan Broxton, RHP
7. Chin-Lung Hu, SS
8. Scott Elbert, LHP
9. James McDonald, RHP
10. Josh Bell, 3B

There's some talent for you. Clayton Kershaw is the best left-handed pitching prospect in the game, yet he's third on this list. He might have a bit more upside than Billingsley, but the latter is already there, and if you are looking for 2008 breakout candidates from a pitching perspective, don't be surprised if Billingsley finishes in the top five of next year's NL Cy Young Award voting. While Kemp's .342 average last year for the Dodgers is a bit of a fluke, he's still an immensely talented outfielder with star potential, and the same could be said for Loney, who the Dodgers luckily seem to be done screwing around with. Broxton showed closer potential in his first year as a set-up man, and he has the attitude to pitch the ninth as well.

Despite a significant and highly successful graduation rate, the Dodgers have continued their track record of outstanding scouting and player development to refurbish a system that remains well above average despite multiple big league-bound departures. No team in the history of the game has a better track record of identifying and developing top-level talent, and that tradition continues.

My favorite comment in Goldstein's article comes from a scout, who describes Hu's defensive instincts as "bordering on psychic."

Comments (214)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-02-01 10:01:44
1.   LAT
452. You win. The Maroons takes it. Of course, anyone unlucky enugh to attend to UC Santa Cruz, UC Irvine and the University of Chicago would own the holy trifecta of bad mascots. Its like having the lock low in poker.
2008-02-01 10:02:19
2.   Raf
I would like to know more details about the Coliseum game; will they be available over the web? How many tickets are they planning to sell?
2008-02-01 10:03:24
3.   Jon Weisman
2 - Go to I think they're gonna pursue the 90,000 neighborhood.
2008-02-01 10:03:31
4.   bhsportsguy
I think Kevin kind of let the Dodgers slide for about 15 years or so but it was a nice thing to say.

As I noted before I was LATed, that list will be basically the same next year because of those 10 players, only LaRoche and Hu will turn 25 by the 2009 Opening Day.

2008-02-01 10:07:32
5.   Rob M
Judging from Goldstein's commentary, I wonder if he meant to put Kemp ahead of Kershaw.
2008-02-01 10:07:44
6.   cargill06
wow kershaw ahead of kemp? kemp has proven what he can do at the big league level. kershaw has only pitched a few AA innings, i think their "ceilings" are pretty similar too
2008-02-01 10:09:25
7.   old dodger fan
Russell Martin turns 25 on February 15th. I guess they used Opening Day 2008 as the cut off.
2008-02-01 10:09:40
8.   Rob M
OMG, I just realized my fantasy draft (year 24!) is going to be in Laguna over the weekend of the Coliseum game. I can't believe I'm going to miss that.
2008-02-01 10:10:20
9.   Jon Weisman
James Adkins has my birthday.
2008-02-01 10:10:51
10.   Penarol1916
1. For me it is Kewpies that has always been the most shameful one. Although in college the actual name of my high school (Hickman) was made fun of more than the mascot, since it confirmed to those guys that Missouri was full of hicks.
2008-02-01 10:11:06
11.   bhsportsguy
9 Loney has mine. :)
2008-02-01 10:12:10
12.   Jon Weisman
Kershaw's ceiling is Cy Young award-winner. Matt Kemp will never win a Cy Young award.
2008-02-01 10:13:11
13.   Jon Weisman
1 - Mine are Saracens, Cardinal, Hoyas. A little strange.
2008-02-01 10:15:06
14.   Rob M
Mine are Artist and Cardinal.
2008-02-01 10:15:28
15.   Rob M
Artists plural I should say.
2008-02-01 10:18:15
16.   bhsportsguy
13 I have a daredevil, a sweathog and the person who paired up Stu Nahan with Sean Penn.
2008-02-01 10:19:14
17.   ToyCannon
We've said this before but if Elbert hadn't gotten hurt I feel confident that Miggy would be on that list today. Headed into last year he was even with Andrew Miller and Miller did nothing to improve his lot with his performance in 2007.
2008-02-01 10:21:38
18.   bhsportsguy
12 Also, unless Kershaw comes up to LA and pitches over 50 IP, he most likely will be the No. 1 prospect in the game before he is 21.

This is no slight to Kemp who would be a top 10 prospect if qualified and certainly I think among the top 20 players in the majors 25 or younger. (I would have to check that though, 25 is a big gap, I would say 23 (which is age) but that is a much smaller group.)

2008-02-01 10:22:03
19.   ToyCannon
Tornadoes and Golden Eagles. Golden Eagles are cool not that we saw to many of them in East Los Angeles or Tornadoes in Glendale.
2008-02-01 10:23:02
20.   ToyCannon
Those of you with 3 mascots are an impressive lot.
2008-02-01 10:23:31
21.   bhsportsguy
17 Yes, we have had that discussion, the injuries to Elbert and Morris really hurt the potential trades this off-season.

One thing for sure, if Hu hits like he did last year in Vegas, his value is going to be sky high as this season goes on.

2008-02-01 10:24:48
22.   Andrew Shimmin
If a pitch is plus-plus, where does that put it on the scouting scale? 70? 60? Where does plain old plus put it?
2008-02-01 10:25:25
23.   bhsportsguy
1 My high school mascot got PCed from a "Warrior Chief" to I believe some type of dinosaur.

Darn that LAUSD and their sensitivity.

(In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with the Indian mascots being changed but why a dinosaur)

2008-02-01 10:25:48
24.   fanerman
I only have 3 mascots if you count elementary school and high school.
2008-02-01 10:27:24
25.   natepurcell

scale is 20-80 with 50 being major league average.

plus would be like 55-60.

2008-02-01 10:29:22
26.   bhsportsguy
25 Your take on Goldstein's lists?

Nice win last night at USC, I'll be at Pauley on Saturday to see the game.

2008-02-01 10:30:36
27.   fanerman
23 My elementary school was "the Aztecs" (a distinction I share with one Nomar Garciaparra and siblings). I am quite certain they are still called the Aztecs.
2008-02-01 10:31:26
28.   old dodger fan
20 If you are a military brat its easy. I attended 4 middle schools though we called them Junior High Schools back then.
2008-02-01 10:32:00
29.   Andrew Shimmin
Is plus-plus a real thing? Goldstein pegs Kershaw, Elbert, and Meloan as having plus-plus pitches.
2008-02-01 10:34:45
30.   cargill06
if you had to bet right now who would you bet has a better major league career kershaw or kemp??
2008-02-01 10:35:03
31.   natepurcell

It sounds mythical, but its real.

2008-02-01 10:36:36
32.   LAT
Aztec is the name of one of my top three favorite books of all time (Gary Jennings).
2008-02-01 10:37:21
33.   ToyCannon
Sure, but I would expect people to only use HS, College, More College, not middle or elem schools.
2008-02-01 10:37:38
34.   fanerman
30 Kershaw.
2008-02-01 10:37:40
35.   natepurcell

I'm surprised Lambo isn't mentioned anywhere. But the list looks pretty good. When Laroche graduates, Elbert, McDonald, Withrow and Lambo all have the potential to take his spot as a 5 star prospect.

Although McDonald has a good chance to graduate too.

2008-02-01 10:38:58
36.   D4P
Is plus-plus a real thing?

There Is No Such Thing As A Plus Plus

2008-02-01 10:48:40
37.   Marty
I was a Wildcat and an Owl
2008-02-01 10:49:26
38.   ToyCannon
Back to Jon's post. Tommy Davis was signed Jan 1st 1956. So if the story is true, Jackie made the phone call sometime after the Dodger 1955 World Series. Jackie was traded on Dec 1956 to the Giants and refused to report and retired. I wonder if he would have made the same phone call a year later on behalf of the Dodgers or if Tommy Davis would have been so excited about being a Dodger after seeing how they ended his hero's career?
2008-02-01 10:49:58
39.   Steve in Rochester
"don't be surprised if Billingsley finishes in the top five of next year's NL Cy Young Award voting."

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit ambitious for Billingsley? I love Bills being our #3 guy, but if he finished in the top-5 in CYA voting, wouldn't that be a huge surprise to the positive?

2008-02-01 10:50:28
40.   PalmdaleSteve1
Gone Gonzo

Looks like Gonzo found a new home with the Fish, at least for year. Good luck with the kids there. If you need help figuring out the role of club house enforcer, Jeff's number is 1-800-Grumpy Old Man.

2008-02-01 10:51:45
41.   fanerman
40 You missed the party yesterday. There was farm fresh tilapia and a "The Cure" cover band.
2008-02-01 10:52:12
42.   underdog
Interesting that Goldstein has Michael Watt in the "just missed" section. That's pretty cool. I haven't seen him ranked quite that highly before, have you?


My alma maters had: Gators (even though we were nowhere near a swamp, SFSU); and a grad school with no sports programs or nickname (if they did, it'd be like the "Fightin' Easels" or something). I almost went to USF for grad school, in which case I'd have gone to two schools (including HS) with "Dons" as a nickname.

2008-02-01 10:53:26
43.   Steve in Rochester
I am a Falcon & Crusader.

(as an aside, my college Valparaiso has strongly considered dumping the Crusaders because of some negative connotations the Crusades carry, especially with Middle Eastern & Arabic groups)

2008-02-01 10:54:39
44.   Penarol1916
39. I certainly wouldn't expect him to be in the top 5 in Cy Young voting this year, but it wouldn't be a shock given his performance overall last year.
2008-02-01 10:55:14
45.   bigcpa
The elephant in the room here is Hu getting the 5-star treatment by BP. Keith Law has him at #50... Sickels gave him a flat B. Goldstein goes as far as to say he'll match Furcal's production in 2009. Given that he'll turn 25 in Feb '09, Hu has to be starting for somebody. Maybe he beats out Abreu as Kent's successor, and Furcal gets extended.
2008-02-01 10:55:57
46.   underdog
43 Wow, some people just can't let go of a grudge, even if it's a thousand years ago.
2008-02-01 10:57:14
47.   underdog
45 I wouldn't mind that. And can Furcal play 2nd? I love Hu but I also have a feeling that Furcal is going to have a great year (for several reasons, not the least is that it's his walk year and he's much healthier).
2008-02-01 11:01:24
48.   cargill06
39 if you told me that he finish top 5 in cy young this year, yes i'd be plesentley surprised. but he is no #3 starter

34 really? seems like there are too many variables to give a definative 1 word answer. injury is always a possibilty and he has yet to pitch any signifigant amount of time at AA let alone touch AAA, look at Phil Hughes i think he was ranked higher than kershaw last year and so far not too well in the majors, although he has plenty of time to prove he should've been ranked that high

2008-02-01 11:01:46
49.   Andrew Shimmin
Billingsley finished fifth in RA+ for NL starters, last year. It'd be surprising (especially with Haren and Santana coming to the NL), but if Oswalt and Penny fall off a little bit, and Hammels and Cain don't leap frog him, it could happen. It could happen that he'd be the fifth most valuable pitcher, I mean--I think it's very unlikely he'll get the fifth most votes.
2008-02-01 11:03:23
50.   cargill06
48 there are just still some unknowns about kershaw i know he's only 19, but what if his control never improves?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-02-01 11:06:02
51.   ToyCannon
Yeah that abbreviated No-Hitter he threw in his 2nd start just stunk up the joint. Then he didn't pitch due to the injury for 3 months. The healthy Hughes will show up in 2008 and your Red Sox friends had better hope their phenom can match him.
2008-02-01 11:08:10
52.   cargill06
51 his hendrickson like ERA after that did.
2008-02-01 11:09:58
53.   bhsportsguy
51 And he is not even a Dodger prospect, no raise the ire of TC.

BTW - after some brief correspondence with Kevin G., he made a slight alteration to his summary to his top 10 under 25 list. Note, he did not change the order.

2008-02-01 11:10:11
54.   cargill06
all im saying is a guy who put up a 125 OPS+ at the age of 22 seems to be a safer bet than a PITCHER who is walking 4 9/IP at A and AA levels
2008-02-01 11:11:17
55.   Jon Weisman
I would be surprised if Billingsley wasn't our best starter this season.
2008-02-01 11:13:47
56.   Gen3Blue
There can't be many systems where Abreu wouldn't break the under 25 talent list.
Also prospect list( is Abreu still eligible as a prospect BA style?)
2008-02-01 11:14:03
57.   berkowit28
5 Right. I can't otherwise why he would say "Clayton Kershaw is the best left-handed pitching prospect in the game, yet he's third on this list" when, in fact, he's second on the list. Or is there some invisible player at the top?
2008-02-01 11:14:44
58.   silverwidow
I can definitely say that Kershaw will have a better career than Kemp (and I love Kemp).

I don't care that he only has a few innings of Double-A experience (that fact is, he reached that level sooner than expected). And people need to quit thinking pitching in Triple-A means anything -- the high ceiling talent at that level is few and far between. It's merely a pitstop for most top prospects.

2008-02-01 11:14:44
59.   cargill06
55 agreed, or loaiza
2008-02-01 11:16:23
60.   Summer Saint
54 Ah, yes, but that pitcher is only 19. You are right though, Cargill: he's a safer bet. Keep in mind though that in many of our eyes his ceiling is significantly higher than Kemp's, which more than makes up for the increase in risk.
2008-02-01 11:16:25
61.   ToyCannon
I actually agree with the premise. I would rather have Matt Kemp then the best pitching prospect of this generation only because of the uncertainty.
Still when you compare him to the Hughes, Chamberlains, Boston rif raf, your not taking into account he is only 19 while those other guys have had several years to learn their craft. By the time Clayton is the same age as them, he might have already have gone Doc Gooden on the league.

Plus who cares. They are both Dodgers. Let us keep it that way.

2008-02-01 11:19:47
62.   ToyCannon
He was ineligible for the prospect list but was eligible for the under 25 list (11/13/1984).

I cringe everytime I read these birthdates. I can still remember being in awe when I saw the 1950 birthdate of Bobby Valentine and he was in the major leagues.

2008-02-01 11:20:21
63.   bhsportsguy
54 I am going to step in where I probably shouldn't but, this is becoming an argument where there should not be one.

The key word here is prospect. There is no question that right now, for 2008, Matt Kemp is a much more valuable piece to the team's success. Does he have somethings to improve on sure but he has all the tools necessary to be not just a good player but maybe the best offensive player the Dodgers have produced since Piazza and Mondesi.

That said, Clayton Kershaw has had every scout, analysts, whomever who covers the minor leagues and prospects say that he is truly an outstanding prospect and he has been ranked accordingly since then.

Before he threw his first pitch for Great Lakes, he was already among the best prosepcts in the game regardless of age.

With all the nice things said about him, there are those here who refuse to call him by name because they think he is too good to be true.

If the projection holds, Clayton Kershaw could be Johan Santana, Jake Peavy, type of pitcher. And that makes him a better prospect than Kemp or anyone else on the Dodgers.

But we won't know that today, tomorrow or even next season. But that doesn't diminish that possilbility.

Your points are good ones, just try not to think that you have to defensive about them.

2008-02-01 11:23:31
64.   fanerman
54 I think Matt Kemp is a safer bet to be a good baseball player because he already is. I think Kershaw is a safer bet to be a super duper elite player for a very long time. The special-ness of Kershaw is... mythological.
2008-02-01 11:24:44
65.   underdog
No deal yet for Santana but they're closer. John Heyman reports: "Johan Santana and the Mets continue to make progress on a record-setting contract that is expected to make the two-time Cy Young winner a $150-million man, has learned. People with knowledge of the talks say they expect a deal to be completed by the 5 p.m. EST deadline.

Santana and the Mets are discussing a contract extension for six years that is expected to pay Santana close to $22 million a year, according to sources familiar with the talks. In addition, it is believed the Mets may add about $7 million to Santana's $13.25 million salary for 2008."

2008-02-01 11:24:44
66.   Gen3Blue
62 thanks TC.
2008-02-01 11:26:28
67.   Jon Weisman
It's rather unsafe for work, but the Sarah Silverman-Matt Damon video linked on Defamer is pretty hilarious.
2008-02-01 11:38:55
68.   ImprobableImpossible
Should we come up with a similar song about the Minotaur?
2008-02-01 11:39:23
69.   Jon Weisman
38 - That's interesting - very intriguing timing. Although Eric Enders (I think it was him) left me thinking that Robinson had decided to retire before the Giants trade, but couldn't announce it yet.
2008-02-01 11:49:10
70.   ToyCannon
That would differ from what I remember when I read his bio. I think Rachel said he was very hurt when he was traded to the Giants but I read it many years ago. Eric would certainly know better then anyone.
2008-02-01 11:50:01
71.   Jon Weisman
70 - It might have been a case of "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
2008-02-01 11:52:04
72.   bhsportsguy
Joe P. Sheehan of Baseball Analysts has some nice analysis of how effective Takeshi Saito's fastball is to RH hitters.

I would link but Jon has one right over there >>>>>>>>>>>

2008-02-01 11:53:21
73.   Bob Timmermann
Robinson bios that I've read said that he gave an exclusive interview to Look announcing his retirement, but he kept it quiet until the issue came out. In the interim, the Dodgers traded him. Which was not really out of the blue as Robinson's production had dropped and O'Malley and Bavasi weren't getting along with him.

I don't think Robinson would have wanted to come out to L.A. in 1958. He didn't miss his hometown all that much.

2008-02-01 11:57:04
74.   cargill06
63 i was thinking the same thing too, that the word prospect should be taken to acount if you're taking kershaw. but i offered the question of who is a safer bet to have a better big league career not who the better prospect is. if we're talking safer bet for a better big league career it has to be kemp IMO

61 hughes walk rate at 19 was 2 9/ip, and bucholz and joba have had better walk rates albeit at an older age. that will be the #1 number i keep track of when tracking kershaw this season as he had many outing where he failed to get to the 5th inning

2008-02-01 11:59:26
75.   Andrew Shimmin
The 2008 PECOTA spreadsheet is up. It's not on the front page, yet, but if you hit the Fantasy tab, it's available.
2008-02-01 12:03:51
76.   bhsportsguy
74 Okay, but I guess I question the question. If Kershaw is healthy and in the majors with same projections next year, then he would be a safer bet to have a better career than Kemp.

I think a fairer question since they have about the same amout of time in the big leagues would be who would have a more successful career, Chad Billingsley or Matt Kemp.

Now there's one to argue about.

2008-02-01 12:04:50
77.   fanerman
The Lakers appear to have just made a big trade.
2008-02-01 12:05:40
78.   cargill06
76 if you were to tell me C billz is going to be relatively healthy i take C billz no doubt. he's nasty
2008-02-01 12:07:20
79.   cargill06
77 please inform
2008-02-01 12:07:44
80.   Jon Weisman
"The injury-riddled Los Angeles Lakers have made a move to bolster their front court, reportedly acquiring center Pau Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies for center Kwame Brown, rookie guard Javaris Crittenton and first round draft picks in 2008 and 2010, according to the Memphis Commercial-Appeal."
2008-02-01 12:08:26
81.   fanerman

Pau Gasol for Kwame, Crittenton, 2008 #1, 2010 #1. Still needs confirmation from a major news site. Memphis newspapers seem to be reporting it as done.

2008-02-01 12:09:53
82.   fanerman
CNNSI is reporting it:

They're citing the Memphis newspaper Commercial Appeal (same source as before).

2008-02-01 12:11:37
83.   Brian Y
They sure did give up a lot for Pau Gasol. Does this move Odom to SF when Bynum comes back?
2008-02-01 12:12:29
84.   Jon Weisman
By the way, I meant to tell everyone to expect some Hiroki Kuroda stories in the next 24 hours. He's having a workout/press conference at Dodger Stadium this morning.
2008-02-01 12:12:42
85.   regfairfield
Kemp's comparables are still pretty unispiring sadly. His top four are Derek Bell, Todd Hollandsworth, Pedro Munoz and Corey Hart.

Hu's first comparable is Angel Berroa.

Russ has the only really nice ones: Thurman Munson, Craig Biggio, Ray Fosse and Todd Zeile.

2008-02-01 12:13:29
86.   Kevin Lewis

My optimistic side tells me if Chad is not our best pitcher this year, than our pitching staff really stepped it up and we had a great year

2008-02-01 12:14:58
87.   fanerman
83 Not that much. Just Crittenton really. Draft picks would probably be in the 20's both years. Maybe they're thinking this will convince Kobe to stay. So Critt isn't really that crucial, since they have Farmar. Kwame isn't very good. Bynum is the future. Pau can play some center.
2008-02-01 12:15:49
88.   Jason in Canada
83 Gave up a lot? Not hardly. Sorry, I think getting rid of Kwame Brown alone for more than some scotch tape is worth it. Unless the Laker's tank and those pick gain in value...
2008-02-01 12:16:15
89.   Jon Weisman
85 - If Matt Kemp is Todd Hollandsworth, then I'm Todd Hollandsworth's brother-in-law.
2008-02-01 12:16:28
90.   regfairfield
PECOTA's ranking of our starters:

Kuroda, Bills, Penny, Lowe, Schmidt, E-Lo, and none of these are good projections except Kuroda's. PECOTA hated our staff last year too though.

2008-02-01 12:17:19
91.   trainwreck
Obviously, getting rid of Kwame for Gasol is huge, but I am going to really miss Crittenton.
2008-02-01 12:18:40
92.   fanerman
85 I like the comparables you (or ToyCannon?) came up with with your under 22 OPS+ as high as his.
2008-02-01 12:19:06
93.   regfairfield
89 I'm not sure how PECOTA does it, but it does project Kemp to have a better year than any of those guys except Hart ever had.
2008-02-01 12:19:07
94.   ToyCannon
I thought they didn't give up squat. An expiring contract, a promising point guard, and two number picks that will be in the 20's both years. This is an incredible trade for the Lakers. What a frontline they are going to have and they held onto Farmer.
Mitch you are the man.
2008-02-01 12:19:23
95.   bhsportsguy
90 Generally, I like the writing on BP, their annual prospectus, etc. I tend to find PECOTA as a necessary evil of their business but I don't tend to be overly concerned with it.
2008-02-01 12:19:42
96.   Bob Timmermann
Has anyone ever seen Jon and Matt Herges together in the same place?
2008-02-01 12:19:57
97.   D4P
The (obvious?) problem with Kemp's OPS+ is the large extent to which it's BA dependent.
2008-02-01 12:20:51
98.   underdog
That was an awesome trade, if it goes through. Kwame Brown is like the Juan Pierre of the Lakers, if you can get rid of him (even tho this seems an odd time to do it, given the lack of depth in the frontcourt right now), you do it, even if you give up a lot. As noted above, the Lakers draft positions will likely not be very high, Crittenton I do like, and obviously the Grizzlies do, too, but willing to give him up to net Gasol, and subtract Brown.
2008-02-01 12:21:12
99.   bhsportsguy
91 But Fisher is here for 2 more years and Jordan is now probably locked in to be the next point guard, so that is not that bad of loss.
2008-02-01 12:21:29
100.   trainwreck
Odom, Gasol, & Bynum is a very tall front line.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-02-01 12:23:34
101.   trainwreck
Yeah, the Lakers probably did not have much interest in adding more first round picks.

According to Ric Bucher, we are adding Marc Gasol and Aaron Mckie in this trade. Gasol for Gasol.

2008-02-01 12:23:47
102.   fanerman
94 Yeah. Javaris is mostly position-less because this trade probably tells Kobe that he's not going to opt out. Farmar is the PG of the future. Vujacic is a reasonable back-up for Kobe.

Mitch managed to get Gasol without giving up Odom or Bynum. And he got rid of B-Cook and got Ariza earlier this year. Cool.

2008-02-01 12:24:19
103.   PalmdaleSteve1
About Schmidt

Any good news about his rehab is going? Guess we'll know in a couple of weeks when pitchers and catchers show up in Vero.

2008-02-01 12:24:21
104.   underdog
Yikes. Judging by Fanerman's Gmail status message, I'm guessing he really likes this trade, too.
2008-02-01 12:25:13
105.   Brian Y
I was just thinking that giving up the Mid-Level Exception with Brown's expiring contract, Crittenden, and 2 1st Rd Picks (even in their 20's) was a lot for a guy who really hinders them cap wise. And I think they really need a deeper bench to win a championship. But maybe they aren't done.
2008-02-01 12:25:48
106.   fanerman
104 Hey I'm quoting somebody else!
2008-02-01 12:28:43
107.   ToyCannon
Pecota loves them some Jeff Kent. I feel like I'm paddling upriver.
2008-02-01 12:29:15
108.   bhsportsguy
105 Basically, if everyone is healthy, their bench would be Turiaf, Sasha, Jordan, Vlad, Luke, Ariza, and Mihm.

Oh, and they have Kolby Karl or Colby Karl.

That's a pretty good bench.

Dr. Buss is going to paying some luxury tax this year though.

2008-02-01 12:29:44
109.   bhsportsguy
107 That is why I don't bow to Pecota.
2008-02-01 12:30:07
110.   fanerman
105 There's no way they could get anybody of Gasol's caliber with the MLE. Expiring contracts are what trades like this are for. Their bench is still exceptionally deep. Javaris wasn't even getting playing time. Gasol can play center. They can sign Mbenga for the rest of the year.

The cap is a fair issue. I wonder how they'll deal with that. Odom is overpaid. He has one more season on his contract after this year. Perhaps we can just re-sign him for the MLE. Bynum will need a raise before the 2010/2011 season. Gasol's contract runs until the end of the 2010/2011 season. Kobe's also runs until the end of the 2010/2011 season.

2008-02-01 12:33:16
111.   fanerman
107 do you predict a massive decline or a noticeable-but-he'll-hit-enough-to-play-2B decline?
2008-02-01 12:34:23
112.   underdog
106 Mmm-hmmm, sure, uh-huh, somebody else, gotcha. Hey, I'm excited too.
2008-02-01 12:34:32
113.   Jon Weisman
109 - I'm with you. Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I get nothing out of any of these projection systems.
2008-02-01 12:34:39
114.   Sushirabbit
72 I liked the Yellow Hammer piece, too, especially when BB added his comment.
2008-02-01 12:35:08
115.   natepurcell
whoaaaa, Pau and Bynum front court is sexy!!
2008-02-01 12:35:10
116.   Brian Y
Speaking of overpaid...Vlad is very overrated for a guy who should be able to play PF but can't rebound to save a life. I didn't realize Odom's contract runs out after next year. He should be pretty sought after (after the season) with his expiring contract. I love Ariza, Turiaf, and Farmar but I don't have a whole lot of faith in Mihm, Luke, or Vlad. I'm so so on Sasha
2008-02-01 12:35:28
117.   fanerman
112 It says "Bryan" in front! Though I am quite excited.
2008-02-01 12:35:37
118.   natepurcell
Id rather trade Odom though. He just doesn't fit.
2008-02-01 12:36:13
119.   D4P
I don't see any particular reason to expect a (huge) offensive decline from Kent in 2008. His 2007 OPS of .875 was actually higher than 2003 or 2006, so it's not as if he's already on the way down.

Defense is another story.

2008-02-01 12:36:39
120.   natepurcell
actually odom as an expiring next year works too.
2008-02-01 12:37:47
121.   trainwreck
Well Kobe's deal has an opt out and I have no idea why he would not opt out.
2008-02-01 12:38:26
122.   Jon Weisman
You guys missed the big news - Jason Collins was traded!

Collins had 52 points in 656 minutes for the Nets this season.

2008-02-01 12:38:36
123.   cargill06
don't have pecota, anyone care to share the projections of kemp, a. jones, and our rotation?
2008-02-01 12:40:07
124.   natepurcell

Kobes not opting out. Kobe, Gasol and Bynum is better than anything he could get himself into.

2008-02-01 12:40:09
125.   underdog
116 All the more reason to acquire a Gasol.

And they likely wouldn't get a top caliber forward picking in the 20s in the draft. Of course, if they lose Kobe and Odom both then they're gonna need to reload big time.

2008-02-01 12:41:07
126.   trainwreck
Yeah, but he gets more money by opting out. Even if he wanted to stay with the Lakers.
2008-02-01 12:42:59
127.   JoeyP
I dont what the Lakers get back.

The good news is that Kwame Brown is gone. YES!

On my all-time Laker hate list--Kwame Brown was a strong #2, and was closing in on the #1--Smush Parker.

With both of them gone, its a good day in Laker-land.

The only downside to this deal is giving up Crittendon. The Lakers probably are still 7-8 seed territory, but at least getting Gasol will make the team fun again. They'll be soft defensively, but the points should come quite easily.


Thats a team that can score.
Plus, Odom is much better suited to be a #3 guy and this allows him to do that.

Good job Mitch!--never thought i'd say that.

2008-02-01 12:43:53
128.   Brian Y
I will say that Gasol is a great fit for the Lakers. They are a really good defensive team when healthy. Let Kobe shoot and Pau and Andrew can rebound. Sure beats Kwame not rebounding or doing much of anything.
2008-02-01 12:44:25
129.   cargill06
127 with a healthy bynum they're better than a 7 seed
2008-02-01 12:44:27
130.   Eric Enders
Bob had the Robinson retirement story right. On December 10, 1956, Robinson accepted a position as Vice President of the Chock Full of Nuts company. He also sold the rights to his retirement story (to be published under his byline, but ghostwritten) to Look Magazine. They paid him $50,000 for the story, a significant amount for a ballplayer in those days, but under the condition that he keep quiet about his retirement until the magazine came out. Then on December 12, the Dodgers traded him.
2008-02-01 12:45:09
131.   natepurcell
I honestly think Odom is best at the 4 spot. His main strength is is rebounding and being o the wing at the 3 negates that value.
2008-02-01 12:45:18
132.   Lexinthedena
Get Mitch a urine test!...This is a great move!
2008-02-01 12:45:42
133.   Eric Enders
130 Robinson refusing to go to the Giants is one of those stories that one wishes were true, but aren't. Like Rickey Henderson and John Olerud. Or Cal Ripken and Kevin Costner.
2008-02-01 12:45:50
134.   natepurcell
They were a top 3 team in the west with just Bynum and Kobe. Now add a legit PF, they are one of the top teams in the west.
2008-02-01 12:46:25
135.   JoeyP
Farmar is the PG of the future.

Are you a big UCLA fan?

Because Crittendon has a ton more upside than Farmar. Farmar will never be a starting caliber guard for the Lakers. If he is, then they are in trouble. Farmar's fine coming off the bench, with screen/roles and shooting 3's. But he cant defend if he plays starter-level minutes.

2008-02-01 12:47:37
136.   ToyCannon
Could you explain, because that is contrary to what I thought.
2008-02-01 12:47:54
137.   Lexinthedena
Bynum is a defensive threat, which takes the pressure off Gasol, and lets him be the nice low-post scoring, no defense playing stud that he is...
2008-02-01 12:49:16
138.   JoeyP
134---I'm a Lakers fan but this team isnt better than Dallas, San Antonio, or Phoenix.

I'm not really sure yet what to think of New Orleans.

Even when Bynum comes back, I think the Lakers will be around 6-8. The Gasol trade should at least ensure them making the playoffs.

2008-02-01 12:49:26
139.   Lexinthedena
135- Javaris is one of the most athletic guards in the league, but how can you say that about Farmer...he is a second year sophmore-age player, who as progessed a ton in just one season. That is an unfair assesment.
2008-02-01 12:50:03
140.   ToyCannon
Did they part on good terms? Would Jackie in Dec 1956 had made the same phone call to Tommy Davis that he made in Dec 1955?
2008-02-01 12:50:05
141.   Eric Enders
C'mon, people! The Dodger BP prospect list is out! We're not going to spend the whole day talking about guys who run around in funny purple and yellow shorts, are we?
2008-02-01 12:50:23
142.   natepurcell

Lakers rocked Phoenix with Bynum. It is very debatable that the Lakers at full strength are better than the suns.

2008-02-01 12:51:29
143.   fanerman
126 136 It's unclear what Kobe values more, the max contract or winning. But it's clear Kobe values winning very highly. I think trainwreck expects Kobe to go where the money is.

135 I was just saying that Farmar seems to be groomed into that role. I think he can be a Derek Fisher type player as he matures. Crittenton has a higher ceiling and will certainly be the better player. But Farmar looks like he'll fit the Triangle and the Lakers. If the Lakers can hang onto Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum, they don't need Farmar to be "super."

2008-02-01 12:52:16
144.   bhsportsguy
141 I think we are prospected out.
2008-02-01 12:53:04
145.   ToyCannon
Having followed basketball for a long time the emergence of New Orleans and Portland this year has blown me away. NO looks like a legitimate contender. Paul and company seem to be able to play with anyone.
2008-02-01 12:53:11
146.   cargill06
141 we can talk about how big of a red-neck peavy is.
2008-02-01 12:53:13
147.   Eric Enders
140 No, they did not. Bavasi was really ticked off at Robinson. And of course, O'Malley and Robinson hated each other from the beginning, and the retirement snafu only made things worse. He was very upset at having to send $30,000 back to the Giants.

This is why the relationship between Robinson and the Dodgers was always, shall we say, cool, between his retirement and his death in '72.

2008-02-01 12:54:00
148.   Lexinthedena
I'm excited about an infield of LaRoche, Hu, Abreu, and Loney...Very Dodger-riffic...
2008-02-01 12:54:01
149.   bhsportsguy
143 The problem for Kobe is that there will be very few teams that can pay him what he wants, the Lakers can pay him more plus the Lakers' roster might be more talented than the teams that are able to bid for his services.
2008-02-01 12:54:08
150.   fanerman
138 The Lakers with Bynum were playing had one of the best records in the West and their point differential suggested they were legit, this with the highest strength of schedule in the league for a large part of the season. Hollinger rankings had them as the #2 team in the league at one point I think.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-02-01 12:54:50
151.   JoeyP
Has anyone wondered how this deal helps Memphis though?

It seems to me the best part for Memphis is getting Crittendon, but then again they already have thier PG in Mike Conley.

The 1st round picks likely wont be that high.

So in the end you deal one very good player (with a bloated contract) for one horrible player (with an even worse contract).

How does this help Memphis?

2008-02-01 12:55:46
152.   Jon Weisman
130 - That's what I thought. Did the Dodger brass know about the Look deal when they traded him?

141 - Who is the baseball equivalent of Pau Gasol?

2008-02-01 12:56:23
153.   bhsportsguy
151 Only in the pocketbook since Gasol is signed through 2011 and Kwame is a free agent at the end of the year. So they save $9M a year.
2008-02-01 12:56:39
154.   Jon Weisman
151 - They're starting from scratch, aren't they? Getting cap room and draft picks?
2008-02-01 12:57:04
155.   JoeyP
145--Thats true. I havent seen them play enough (Although I think Portland might be a dynasty level if Greg Oden comes back healthy)..They have loads of talent and probably their most difference making player (Oden) isnt even playing.

New Orleans and Phoenix really prove how important it is to have a great PG.

Nash/Paul just completely make their teams go. Paul is a lock for MVP at this point.

2008-02-01 12:57:05
156.   Eric Enders
152 No, they didn't. It was off the record, on the QT, and very hush-hush.
2008-02-01 12:57:44
157.   Brian Y
Alright I'll talk a little about the prospect I'm most leery about in Goldstein's Top 10 under 25....Josh Bell. I would've picked Josh Wall or Ivan DeJesus Jr. ahead of him and I think DeWitt, Austin Gallagher, and Baez are better prospects at the position. Bell has scary power but his approach hasn't really gotten any better over the years.
2008-02-01 12:59:24
158.   Lexinthedena
152- Carlos Lee maybe?....
2008-02-01 13:00:01
159.   fanerman
151 Kwame is an expiring deal so they get cap relief next year to make a run for... Kobe? or some other free agent.

Crittenton is more of a scorer than a point guard, right now anyway.

I don't think any team as good as the Lakers are will be able to pay Kobe a max-type contract again. His best chance of winning seems to be here, unless he signs with the Spurs for the MLE or something. I think Kobe will have to choose with playing for a contender or making lots of money.

155 Have you not heard of one Lebron James?

The Bulls and the Lakers have won with point guards like Ron Harper and Derek Fisher. Duncan and Shaq have still won 8 out of the last 9 NBA championships.

2008-02-01 13:00:30
160.   bhsportsguy
I'm not sure cap room is all that it is cracked up to be.

Perhaps its because the NBA is so dependent upon getting that one really outstanding player (Duncan, Dirk, Nash, Paul, Baron Davis, Kobe, Yao, KG, Lebron, Wade) and those guys really don't move around that often. And because of the cap and luxury tax, it is not a case where the highest bidder is going to get the guy anyway.

You are better off taking oppurtunities to make deals like this one, but you have to make really smart draft picks and look for bargains in the second round.

2008-02-01 13:00:31
161.   Summer Saint
129 I would say that with a healthy Bynum you're definitely correct if we limit our scope to talent. Right now, though, they don't have Bynum for another 5-6 weeks, which means that by the time the playoffs do come around they're probably looking at a 7/8 seed based on their W/L record.

Unless, of course, you think they're going to go on a prodigious tear or something.

Just as an aside, Cargill, I know I'm kind of late to the fray on this issue but I like having you here. You've brought a lot of life to the comments section in this offseason with your constant questions. I just want to request one thing, though: could you please take a little more time on each of your posts and add a bit more clarity to them? For example, the post I'm responding to here is kind of vague, as I'm unsure of whether or not you're talking about the Lakers' seed based on record or talent. This is by no means a demand, since I hardly have the authority to demand anything of any of the posters here. It's more of a suggestion than anything else.

2008-02-01 13:00:58
162.   trainwreck
Well, Kobe has an opt-out clause in his contract after next season. I would be amazed if Kobe did not want to get a new deal and get more money.

I am not saying he is going to leave the Lakers, just that he is going to want a new long-term deal. That would change the Lakers cap situation.

2008-02-01 13:01:18
163.   Lexinthedena
157- What's the deal with DeWitt's glove?....has he shown that he can hack it at 3rd?
2008-02-01 13:02:52
164.   underdog
141 Well I tried! I mentioned Mike Watt earlier and no one cared. Maybe they thought I was still talking about 80s music (the Minutemen).
2008-02-01 13:04:02
165.   trainwreck
Crittenton can play the shooting guard position. They are going to have a high pick and probably use it on a PF. Michael Beasley if they are lucky with the lottery.

Conley, Crittenton, Gay + Rookie PF is a good nucleus.

2008-02-01 13:04:24
166.   Brian Y
He has the hand, range, and arm for 3B but he botches pretty routine plays. I would say he's only a bit below average. He really needs to play a MI spot if his bat doesn't progress this year.
2008-02-01 13:05:04
167.   Eric Enders
163 I think DeWitt's glove can hack it at third, but not at second. And his bat can probably hack it at second but not at third. And therein lies the problem.
2008-02-01 13:05:40
168.   Brian Y
164. I like Michael Watt alot. I hope he doesn't start off in SS ball this year after his stint in the GCL last year. I would rush him to low-A and if he can't hack it send him to Ogden.
2008-02-01 13:05:44
169.   Sagehen
The comments on #11, James Adkins, are strange to me. He's a college left-hander who should move through the system quickly. But Goldestein projects him as a back end of the rotation starter and says "Adkins is pretty much a finished project with little projection and no true plus offering, and he'll need to improve his secondary offerings to avoid being a one-pitch type." This does not sound like a top prospect. Is the Dodger system weak after the top 10? Goldstein says otherwise. The comments just don't seem to match the projection here.
2008-02-01 13:05:45
170.   ToyCannon
When you say his approach hasn't improved over the years you do realize you are talking about someone who was drafted in 2006 out of HS and has had only one full professional season and ended up in A+?
2008-02-01 13:07:10
171.   Brian Y
167. Agreed. I think this is his make or break year as far as status within the Dodger system.
2008-02-01 13:07:57
172.   fanerman
DeWitt can't even be Jeff Kent with the glove?
2008-02-01 13:08:37
173.   JoeyP
159--I havent forgotten about Lebron. I just dont think he's in the MVP discussion right now since his team's record isnt that good. If the Hornets start losing games, then Paul will probably also lose votes as MVP.
2008-02-01 13:08:42
174.   ToyCannon
I meant 2005.
2008-02-01 13:08:48
175.   bhsportsguy
169 I think it depends on what you are looking for, not every player is a high ceiling prospect. I think that was the criticism about Adkins, I don't think there was a concern that he couldn't do what he is doing, it was more like, is that all he can do.

But because he is older and does not need as much refinement, he could be a contender for MLB job by the end of the year, that is why he is on the list.

2008-02-01 13:09:43
176.   ToyCannon
Plus they can trade Mike Miller for something worthwhile.
2008-02-01 13:10:28
177.   Eric Enders
169 I think they rate their prospects on some combination of (1) a guy's ceiling, and (2) his likelihood of reaching it. Adkins seems to grade out middle-of-the-road on the former, but pretty high on the latter. Sort of like Delwyn Young (who, oddly, went completely unmentioned in the article).
2008-02-01 13:10:42
178.   bhsportsguy
170 Actually, he was drafted in 2005 but played Rookie ball in Ogden in 2006 and played in both A leagues last year.

Who is up for some Cal League games this season?

2008-02-01 13:11:24
179.   Sagehen
Is anyone else surprised that Goldstein ranks Hu as a 5 star prospect? I'd like to see him prove last year wasn't a fluke with the bat before I rank him up there with Kershaw and LaRoche. He's a 4 star from me.

Oh, let it be true, though ... I was dreaming today ... dreaming of the Dodgers offering Furcal and Lowe arbitration next year but nothing longer ... dreaming of Furcal and Lowe turning it down to take longer contracts elsewhere ... dreaming of the FOUR top draft picks that will result ... dreaming of Hu and Kershaw taking their places in the lineup and in the rotation.

2008-02-01 13:11:32
180.   Brian Y
170. He was drafted in 2005 out of HS. He is error and K proned. He won't hack it at 3B but has legitimate power. He's going to be in High A ball at 21yrs old so he's a prospect but he needs to make a step up in his plate discipline in the next few years to be more projectable. He also probably needs to move off 3B in the next year.
2008-02-01 13:11:33
181.   bhsportsguy
Eric, if you look at the pictures from the Jackie Robinson event at Dodger Stadium, you will see some youngsters reading a familiar booklet.
2008-02-01 13:12:07
182.   old dodger fan
Mets have 45 minutes to ink Santana.
2008-02-01 13:12:43
183.   cargill06
161 ya, a lot of the time i don't clarify well what i'm trying to say. when i responded to 127 i assumed that since he had bynum listed on that starting line-up and said they-re a 7-8 seed i thought he was referring that team is a 7 or 8 seed.

however, i believe the question i posed this morning was quite clear and simple. as of right now who is a safer bet to have a better big league career kemp or kershaw? other commenter took it to another twist bringing the prospect argument to it (which is entirley fair)

if you ask me to improve my spelling, punctuation, and using the shift key i will not waiver on that. for one, even if i tried i'd make many spelling and grammer errors so i figure why try.

2008-02-01 13:12:47
184.   bhsportsguy
173 I think Lebron will always be in the MVP discussion regardless of his team's record.
2008-02-01 13:14:06
185.   trainwreck
I would give it to Paul. LeBron's team is doing worse this season, in the lesser conference.

Hornets could be the best team in the league right now. And how many people can honestly say they thought that had any chance of happening?

2008-02-01 13:14:37
186.   Sagehen
175, 177 Thanks guys. Good explanation of Adkins' ranking. Makes sense to me anyway. I think I have just gotten so used to hearing about the high projections for Dodger prospects that when they have a solid college guy coming through, the evaluation doesn't sound as glowing, even if the liklihood of reaching the prediction is higher.
2008-02-01 13:15:13
187.   Jon Weisman
182 - I think the assumption is the deadline will get extended.
2008-02-01 13:16:06
188.   Eric Enders
181 Sweet. Thanks!
2008-02-01 13:17:03
189.   Sagehen
183 ... because if you don't try, you will never improve ... (sorry -- English teacher here)
2008-02-01 13:17:49
190.   ToyCannon
Yes, I messed up the year but the point stills stands. Drafted in 2005 he played some rookie ball. Then in 2006 he stayed behind in extended spring training and then joined the rookie league. 2007 was his 1st complete professional season and did very well in a pitcher league and ballpark. He did not do well in the offensive Cal League. I just don't see enough at bats to hear someone say he hasn't made enough improvement over the years.
2008-02-01 13:18:47
191.   Sagehen
189 ... who can't spell "likelihood" ... argghh.
2008-02-01 13:18:56
192.   underdog
I think the projection on Adkins seemed strange to me, too, based on my assumptions that he rates out as a good LH relief pitcher. As a starter, he would be a back of the rotation guy, yeah, but I thought he was destined to be a reliever. Huh.
2008-02-01 13:19:31
193.   ToyCannon
I think we are at the 1/2 way mark so any talk of MVP is much to premature. Paul has been the MVP of the 1st half but we have lots of basketball left and I doubt he will be in the discussion by the end of the year this time.
2008-02-01 13:20:42
194.   cargill06
187 as i asked on tuesday when the trade was announced, "if a contract extension isn't agreed to in the next 72 hours what happens." i was told common sense should help me figure that out. so ask those commenters if they think a deadline will be extended.
2008-02-01 13:22:41
195.   Jon Weisman
194 - Common sense would dictate that with so much riding on this deal and both parties essentially wanting it to happen, that there would be an extension.
2008-02-01 13:23:33
196.   cargill06
oh, my common sense would've said the deal is off but i asked just to be sure and that is what the implied to me when i asked
2008-02-01 13:25:26
197.   cargill06
196 *the should be they
2008-02-01 13:27:07
198.   Jon Weisman
Beimel has signed. New post to come.
2008-02-01 13:27:26
199.   ToyCannon
Does Cory Dunlap break out this year:)
2008-02-01 13:30:50
200.   Eric Enders
Vote: How Much Life is Left in Juan Pierre?

A Tangotiger Poll
How many plate appearances does Juan Pierre have left in MLB?
Less than 500
At least 3000
View results

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-02-01 13:32:19
201.   wronghanded
Wow some exciting times in LA...Gasol could be huge for the Lake Show especially if Bynum comes back at 100%. I really don't care what seed they qualify for, no team in basketball is going to want to see Kobe in the playoffs if he's surrounded by a healthy Bynum, Gasol and to a lesser extent Odom.
2008-02-01 13:33:45
202.   fanerman
200 aka "Juan Pierre and the Quest for 3000 Hits."
2008-02-01 13:34:04
203.   cargill06
200 man if pierre can have a 2004 season, how great would that be 107 OPS+ and 50-60 SB. and probably score 100 runs depending on where he hits
2008-02-01 13:36:38
204.   CanuckDodger
Both Goldstein's ranking of Adkins and his comments on Adkins are strange, and no, they don't add up. Adkins' has a curve and slider that are BOTH plus pitches, according to BA, and BA ranks Adkins #19 among Dodger prospects and says he can be a #3 or 4 starter. Goldstein does not acknowledge that Adkins has two breaking balls rather than one and calls his breaking ball average, also says Adkins is a back of the rotation starter, meaning a #4 or 5, and yet he ranks Adkins at #11. Who do we believe? I admit, I was amazed and disappointed that Logan White would draft the guy with a first supplemental round pick, considering Adkins' fastball is only in the 80's, but knowing how much White likes a plus breaking pitch, I suppose I can see what induced White to use such a high pick on the guy BA describes. However, I CAN'T see White using a high pick on the guy Goldstein describes.
2008-02-01 13:41:14
205.   CanuckDodger
199 -- The only thing Cory Dunlap breaks this year is the dugout bench in Jacksonville, as it collapses under his prodigious weight.

Seriously, where is Dunlap supposed to play everyday? He didn't do well enough in 2007 to get promoted to Vegas, and Russell Mitchell hit well enough as a first baseman in high A to play the position everyday in Jacksonville, even if he didn't hit well enough to be considered a real prospect.

2008-02-01 13:45:23
206.   Humma Kavula
203 107 OPS+ would still be below-average for a LF, wouldn't it? Or am I wrong about that?
2008-02-01 13:48:47
207.   Sagehen
204 So Goldstein ranked Adkins at #11 based upon Logan White drafting him with a first supplemental round pick, rather than upon his own evaluation of Adkins' talent. That would explain why the ranking and the comments don't mesh as well as they should.
2008-02-01 13:49:43
208.   cargill06
206 i'm sure it would, but it's higher than ethiers last year. than you throw in his speed and if he gets on base that much he would score 100 runs probably in the 1-teens
2008-02-01 13:51:54
209.   CanuckDodger
Somebody asked quite a while back what "plus-plus" translates to on the 20-80 scouting scale. 50 is average, 60 is above-average, 70 is plus, and 80 is plus-plus.
2008-02-01 13:54:06
210.   cargill06
could it be possible that with all the bashing new GM Ryan is taking that if this contract isn't reached in the next few minutes he takes this deal off the table in hopes for a better deal or like someone else said hold onto him for a pitching hungry team at the deadline or at worst let him walk for 2 picks
2008-02-01 13:54:58
211.   Jon Weisman
2008-02-01 13:55:17
212.   Humma Kavula
208 Of course, it doesn't really matter. Pierre's not going to put up a 107 OPS+ next year. Just like my grandmother isn't going to rise from the dead to play LF for the Dodgers.

I would bet that in 2008 Juan Pierre will outhit my dead grandmother, but not Ethier.

2008-02-01 13:56:20
213.   Jon Weisman
210 - Sure, it's possible. Except that he might still be dealing from a defensive posture. The tougher Santana is to negotiate with, the more likely teams might balk at offering more for him.
2008-02-01 14:05:35
214.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
1 So late to the conversation, but my mascots were:

Saracens, Lions and Bears.

Had I managed to squeeze in some small MA at Princeton, right after undergrad, it would have been Saracens, Lions, Tigers and Bears (Oh, my!).

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