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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Newhan on Dodgertown
2008-02-09 19:58
by Jon Weisman

I don't think I properly appreciated Ross Newhan when he was with the Times, which is saying something since I believe the (semi? mostly?) retired baseball columnist's tenure there began before I was born. But I sure enjoy reading him now.

Newhan has two new articles up at the Times relating to Dodgertown, and they may forestall your need to read any others about the team's final Spring Training there. Newhan embraces the Vero Beach nostalgia but doesn't wallow in it; he also embraces the physical, fiscal and psychic discomfort of the place. And the racism.

Newhan, I sense, has only gotten better with age. Hope we keep seeing his byline from time to time.

Comments (275)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-02-09 20:30:38
1.   Eric Stephen
I have to hand it to Plaschke, who also has a Vero article up, for this line:

"The Dodgers had 51 wonderful years in Dodgertown. The problem is, they've been there 61 years."

That's pretty funny.

2008-02-09 20:47:27
2.   fordprefect
Always enjoyed reading Newhan and felt he was underestimated.
2008-02-09 21:02:45
3.   Marty
Well, now that I own the place, I'll see what I can do about that.
2008-02-09 21:56:37
4.   Sagehen
Newhan looks so good now because the current L.A. Times columnists are so bad.

I don't mean to take anything away from Newhan with that remark because I truly look forward to his columns. But I also long for the days when the writing in the L.A. Times sports section was such that we took good writing for granted.

2008-02-09 22:16:20
5.   underdog
Those Newhan pieces were superb, and, as Sage points out, probably look even more so given the Times' typical columnists these days. Nice to be reminded what real writing in the Times looks like.
2008-02-09 22:16:50
6.   CanuckDodger
I first read Newhan during the Evans era, and I was distinctly NOT a fan, because he was preaching the "Prospects are Just Prospects, So Trade Them and WIN NOW!" ideology.
2008-02-09 22:19:53
7.   Jon Weisman
I just used to think he was dull. I wonder if he changed or I did.
2008-02-09 22:40:50
8.   underdog
Hmm. I don't remember that side of Newhan. I probably didn't actually read him all that much. I think the writing quality of these new pieces vs. having too much dreck in the paper lately makes me more misty eyed than I'd normally be.
2008-02-09 22:41:18
9.   GoBears
7. That's what I was thinking too. On the other hand, much of what we remember from 20-30 years ago (those of us who can) we might remember fondly because we didn't know any better at the time. We were kids without the internet, and were just happy to be able to read about sports every day. Would Jim Murray columns hold up to today's much more knowledgeable and sophisticated fan? I imagine they would, because good writing is always better than poor writing, but I also wouldn't be surprised if FJM would have beaten him up a little too.

But Jon and others here are more students of this sort of thing. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

2008-02-09 22:56:57
10.   CanuckDodger
9 -- A fine piece of writing from yesteryear may "hold up" as a fine piece of writing, but it might be a poor piece of analysis. I can appreciate good form even when it is married to bad substance, but bad substance ought not to be over-looked just because it is charming to the ear or the eye.
2008-02-09 23:22:57
11.   gvette
Having visited Dodgertown around 20 years ago, even then you had to balance the thrill of seeing Koufax working with young pitchers and future (alleged) cocaine kingpin Pedro Guerrero hitting nasty line drives agaainst the basic difficulty of even getting to Vero, being overcharged to park on the golf course there, and baking in the sun in Holman Stadium. Can't wait for Arizona.

As for Newhan, he always seemed the most insightful and informed covering the Angels (which he did from their birth), not the Dodgers. It was nice when his son got some major league playing time.

While some of the old time columnists were great (Jim Murray, Red Smith), some of the rest were hacks, and homers (Dick Young) Old time Dodger beat writers like Bob Hunter were horrible, and seemed fearful of offending O'Malley. Today a night on the town by a Mickey Mantle or Don Drysdale would be on video on a dozen different web sites the next morning.

2008-02-09 23:27:05
12.   Bob Timmermann
I've just looked up a bunch of Newhan columns from 2003. He didn't call for the Dodgers to trade away their prospects, but mostly bemoaned how the scouting and drafting had fallen off and there were no prospects. This left Dan Evans with little to bargain with in attempt to get players to improve the 2003 offense.

The Dodgers were trying whatever they could to get Aaron Boone. Aaron Boone! And the Reds weren't interested in anyone the Dodgers were offering. The Yankees settled for Bubba Crosby and Scott Proctor for Robin Ventura.

Newhan didn't like the Fox ownership and thought that the Brown contract was an albatross.

And here's what Newhan wrote on 12/20/2005:
All this nonsense about the Dodgers becoming a team of ex-Red Sox and ex-Giants is exasperating.

Yes, ex marks the spot at Chavez Ravine, but there is more to it than former Red Sox and Giants.

The Dodgers are a team of transients, period.

Now, Nomar and the Nomads.

Have equipment bag, will travel.

For the second consecutive year, the projected opening-day lineup will not include one position player produced in the Dodger system.

With the signings of Nomar Garciaparra, Bill Mueller and Rafael Furcal completing the infield makeover, with Kenny Lofton ticketed for center field and Reggie Sanders or a player to be named expected to occupy left field, the Dodger opening-day lineup is likely to include seven position players acquired through free agency and one, catcher Dioner Navarro, via trade. In addition, at this point, the only sure bets as rotation starters -- Derek Lowe, Brad Penny and Odalis Perez -- were raised elsewhere, and it's possible to project a bullpen in which Eric Gagne would be the only reliever to come out of the Dodger system.


That's a foot-tapping song from "Fiddler on the Roof."

Tradition as it once applied to an assembly-line Dodger farm system deteriorated -- in many respects -- over decades.

The absence of that pipeline depth has handcuffed a succession of general managers and has been illustrated by the club's market activity of recent years -- often at a misguided price.

It is illustrated as well by the current determination to protect a nucleus of touted prospects and the possibility that the roster and payroll could finally begin to undergo a wholesale refurbishing in 2007.

No one is foolishly predicting that Chad Billingsley, Russell Martin, Joel Guzman, Andy LaRoche, Matt Kemp and others represent a truckload second coming on the order of the Steve Garvey, Bill Buckner, Ron Cey, Davey Lopes, Bill Russell breakthrough in the early 1970s.

However, there is a promise now that has been recently missing and that has provided the backdrop to an off-season in which new General Manager Ned Colletti has aggressively and impressively taken the first steps in rebuilding from the 91 losses of last season without mortgaging that future.

"I'm not patient enough to let '06 go by the boards," Colletti was saying at the Garciaparra news conference, "but I'm not impatient enough to rush these kids or trade them before I know more about them. I want to win this year, but I'm not going to sacrifice '07, '08 and '09 in the process. I mean, you can always trade one or two prospects, but you better make sure you trade the right ones."

Prospects, of course, are only that until they're not.

2008-02-09 23:36:20
13.   Bob Timmermann
I've gone back through Newhan's columns back to 2001 and I still don't find one where he thinks that the Dodgers should trade prospects to improve in the short term.
2008-02-09 23:45:17
14.   Eric Stephen
I justed watched the first 3 episodes of Mad Men for the first time, and it's very captivating. I find myself rooting for Peggy quite a bit.

There really is a lot of smoking on the show! My goodness.

2008-02-09 23:48:43
15.   Bob Timmermann
So how many packs of Lucky Strikes did you go out and buy?
2008-02-10 00:17:02
16.   CanuckDodger
13 -- You read every Newhan column from 2002 and 2003? Every single one? The late 2005 column you reproduced in part is fine, and it even rings familiar, but I remember Newhan singing a different tune during the Evans years. During that time, I used to get into huge arguments on another board with somebody who used to constantly bring up a Newhan column blasting Evans for not doing everything to "Win Now" whenever I said that what few prospects we had should be protected and not traded away. I am sure I am not misremembering this.
2008-02-10 00:26:26
17.   CanuckDodger
16 -- Well, the Newhan column from 2005 isn't COMPLETELY fine. Where he talks about it being foolish to predict that the new Dodger wave of prospects "represent a second coming on the order of" Garvey, Lopes, etc.? Actually, I and many others WERE predicting exactly that, which I suppose made us foolish in Newhan's eyes.
2008-02-10 00:35:37
18.   Eric Stephen
I went back the last few years to see how much of the Dodgers were "homegrown". I defined homegrown as anyone:

a) drafted or signed as an amateur by the Dodgers
b) acquired by the Dodgers before playing in the majors (i.e. Ethier)
c) signed with experience in a foreign country (i.e. Saito, Ishii)

Here are the percentages of PA and IP by "homegrown" Dodgers the last few years:

Year: PA / IP
2002: 27.0% / 16.2%
2003: 33.6% / 13.8%
2004: 29.0% / 24.9%
2005: 14.9% / 25.0%
2006: 25.1% / 23.7%
2007: 30.4% / 27.0%

2008 figures to feature the highest percentage of homegrown usage of the last few years.

2008-02-10 00:35:47
19.   Bob Timmermann
It sounds like your holding Newhan to an impossible standard. If he's not 100% in agreement with you on EVERY thing, then he's deficient in his thinking.

From your viewpoint, EVERY column by Newhan would be in contradiction to your point of view.

I don't see any evidence that Newhan advocated that the Dodgers and Evans had to do whatever it took to win now. Newhan would often point out how difficult it was for the Dodgers to improve at the time because they had no prospects to deal.

2008-02-10 00:49:03
20.   CanuckDodger
19 -- No, I am not saying or implying that Newhan, or anybody else, has to agree with me about everything. I have a certain recollection of what Newhan advocated when Evans was GM, and it appears to be different than what you are finding evidence for, and for that I have no explanation. Did Newhan write a column about Evans failing to trade for Richie Sexson because Evans was not willing to part with the prospects the Brewers wanted? I am remembering something in that context now. And the very last sentence in your comment does not exactly make Newhan look like he wanted to protect the farm, as it implies that if we HAD prospects they should be traded, to "improve." And it would be a factual error to say we didn't have prospects in 2003. That was the year of the original "Canuck 5": Jackson, Miller, Gutierrez, Loney, and Hanrahan.
2008-02-10 00:52:58
21.   Bob Timmermann
There are numerous columns where Newhan states that the Dodgers were unable to acquire certain players because Evans did not want to give up prospects or because other teams did not want them as undeveloped as they were.

But I don't see Newhan ever stating that the Dodgers "had" to make a trade. He just states what he thinks the options were and why the deals didn't happen.

Both of us are going to read the columns with our own viewpoint, so I don't think there is an answer because we're arguing over one man's opinion while projecting our own opinion about what that opinion is. It's subjectivity squared.

2008-02-10 01:51:38
22.   Eric Enders
Actually, I think it would have been foolish to predict in 2005 that those guys represented a second coming on the order of Garvey, Lopes, Cey, etc. That sort of maturation of a bunch of prospects into stars all at the same time has only happened a handful of times in baseball history. The Jacksonville Five and company were great prospects, but still guys who each had maybe a 40 percent chance of stardom at best. It would have been foolish to predict them turning into another Garvey-Cey group. Not foolish to hope for it, mind you, but foolish to predict it.
2008-02-10 04:35:41
23.   CanuckDodger
22 -- Well, that's what I, as well as OTHERS, predicted, and I guess I can live with people thinking I was foolish for doing so. Buckner, Garvey, Cey, Lopes, and Russell were not exactly superstars. Nothing they achieved INDIVIDUALLY was so impressive that it would be a long shot to be duplicated by new players. What was special about that group was a bunch of guys making good at about the same time after coming up TOGETHER through one farm system, and around 2003, it was apparent to me that the same thing was close to happening again in the Dodger system, decades after the 1970's group. 2003, so I was singing this tune before the term "Jacksonville 5" got widespread play in 2005. Sure, not every Dodger prospect I expected to do well went on to do good things, or at least not yet, but what was clear to me between 2003 and 2005 was that we had a whole BUNCH of high-ceiling prospects and that even with attrition, at least five or six of them were bound to turn out superbly, hence the coining of the term -- by other people, on another board, in 2003 -- "Canuck 5."
2008-02-10 05:13:59
24.   Sagehen
18 Nice data, ES. I like seeing those numbers get larger. 2005 just looks like a weird blip. One wonders what those numbers for last year would look like without Nomar and Gonzo taking PAs they didn't deserve (notice that I did not mention he-who-must-not-be-named).
2008-02-10 05:18:40
25.   Sagehen
22 "That sort of maturation of a bunch of prospects into stars all at the same time has only happened a handful of times in baseball history."

Is that because the players don't pan out or because GMs don't give them a chance to pan out for the same team? How often does a team have such a group in AA? How often do a larger percentage of those players make it? How often do they make it for the same team? Ned has really had to resist the temptation to trade these guys, and I'm willing to bet that many a GM has caved in the past. It would be interesting to track down the great AA teams and see how many were traded to other systems before maturing.

2008-02-10 05:53:23
26.   Suffering Bruin
I vividly remember Newhan dissing Bill James in one of his columns. I e-mailed Ross and he denied writing it and now I'm questioning my own memory. I think I'm going to visit Bob's place of business to find out.

I always thought Newhan was more like a thinking man's Plaschke when it came to analyzing baseball. His choices for MVP over the years and his reasoning behind them reaked of old school journamilism where chemistry and character counted above all. I guess that's why ARod never got an MVP vote from Newhan.

Since he's taken a step back from the Times, his writing and his analysis have both been better. I don't know the reason but I'm glad to see it.

2008-02-10 07:29:43
27.   D4P
Penn professors critique Clemens's claims:

2008-02-10 08:28:24
28.   silverwidow
Oakland's asking price for pitcher Joe Blanton is steep. From the Dodgers, the A's want Andre Ethier, Andy LaRoche and a prospect.

2008-02-10 08:35:45
29.   bhsportsguy
28 I don't get why these things keep getting any mention at all.
2008-02-10 08:36:39
30.   D4P
I would actually be somewhat surprised if Ned wouldn't be willing to trade Ethier, LaRoche, and a prospect for Blanton, depending on the prospect, of course.

I wouldn't trade LaRoche for Blanton straight up, but then, I'm not Ned.

2008-02-10 08:41:21
31.   gpellamjr
30 But that trade would kill two birds with one stone. First, we would solve our lack of pitching depth. Second, it would relieve the logjam at 3B. Make it happen, Ned!
2008-02-10 08:42:17
32.   Eric Stephen
Troy Renck's credibility was further damaged with this line:

Don't rule out the Dodgers making a play for Livan Hernandez, either

Even Ned doesn't like that much depth. Despite the advice, I'm going to go ahead and rule out Livan.

2008-02-10 08:42:52
33.   D4P
Not only that, but it would open LF up for Pierre full time.
2008-02-10 08:44:09
34.   silverwidow
31 I hate that proposed trade. Nomar is not an everyday third baseman, so LaRoche can't go anywhere. And who wants to see Pierre 162 times in LF? I sure don't.
2008-02-10 08:47:03
35.   gpellamjr
34 You don't seem to understand. It does two things: 1) improves depth, and 2) relieves logjam. How many trades solve two problems?
2008-02-10 08:47:27
36.   D4P
Nomar is not an everyday third baseman

Ned pleads to disagree.

And who wants to see Pierre 162 times in LF?


2008-02-10 08:49:36
37.   Eric Stephen
Enemy beat write Nick Piecoro, who covers the D-Backs, seems to "get" the Dodger situation:

As usual, the Dodgers also appear to have a very solid rotation and bullpen, and their lineup could be vastly more productive if their young players get the opportunity to play.

A full year of James Loney at first base and more at-bats for outfielders Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier would seem to make the Dodgers a stronger offensive unit.

2008-02-10 08:51:24
38.   silverwidow
35 This "logjam" that you refer to is really a broken down player who isn't able to play a good defensive 3rd base vs our best hitting prospect and a top notch defender. The end result is pretty obvious.
2008-02-10 09:01:32
39.   Jon Weisman
So, you guys aren't deliberately trying to ruin my Sunday morning, right?
2008-02-10 09:06:38
40.   D4P
Whom would you rather have play left field for the Dodgers:

1. Juan Pierre
2. Alyssa Milano
3. Hervé Villechaize

2008-02-10 09:19:46
41.   Michael Green
40, I believe only one of the people on that list is alive.

I do enjoy Newhan more now, though I think part of it is that he can write what he feels like writing about. And when you consider that the comparison would be Plaschke, who doesn't like Vero now that that has become the popular viewpoint. If the Dodgers defended Vero as tradition, he'd want to be back.

2008-02-10 09:35:51
42.   Bob Timmermann
Why don't you just look online? There's a database you can get through the LAPL website for free.
2008-02-10 09:36:20
43.   Ken Arneson
39 If it makes you feel any better, Jon, I think this rumor is nonsense. I don't believe for a second that the A's are asking for Ethier. They have future outfielders, and if they wanted one for the present, they'd just sign Bonds. And LaRoche doesn't make much sense either, unless they got rid of Chavez.
2008-02-10 09:40:57
44.   Icaros

Ha! Inside jokes are funny.

2008-02-10 09:44:17
45.   LAT
40. Tough call. None of them can hit for power. None of them has an arm to speak of. All three run around the outfield without a clue but only one would do it yelling "da ball Boss, da ball" and that's worth something. Villechaize and Milano probably draw a lot of walks. Villechaize because of his size and Milano because, well you know why. Of course, neither Villechaize or Milano could steal 60 bases but only one of the three looks really good in a tee shirt that's way too small for them. Tough call. I really want to go with Villechaize but I'm not sure he can get his fingers around the ball so its between Milano and Pierre. Being Milano will play for less money and can likely motivate Brad Penny, I'll go with her.
2008-02-10 09:44:26
46.   overkill94
35 I'm hoping your statements are being made tongue-in-cheek
2008-02-10 09:49:57
47.   Jon Weisman
43 - I think it's nonsense too.
2008-02-10 09:50:45
48.   Humma Kavula
This thread, through post #26, was interesting, informative, and well-argued. Different points of view were presented in a thoughtful manner. I enjoyed it and thought I was reading the thread of the year so far.

Then I got to post #28. I think I'll go shopping now.

2008-02-10 09:51:53
49.   D4P
I think I'll go shopping now

The terrorists win.

2008-02-10 10:03:56
50.   gpellamjr
I blame D4P for all the discontent.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-02-10 10:04:14
51.   Gen3Blue
Solves two problems? Unfortunately the problems solved are where to play our most embarrassing contracts, and how to relieve some of the congestion at the top of the NL west.
2008-02-10 10:12:03
52.   ToyCannon
Just wanted to thank everyone for the kind words on my story. I promise my next one to be upbeat, as I indulge in a love story for Valentines Day as we await the reporting of our 2008 Championship team.
2008-02-10 10:12:58
53.   Icaros
What's Valentine's Day? Never heard of it.
2008-02-10 10:13:17
54.   Bob Timmermann
When did we turn into Sons of Sam Horn?
2008-02-10 10:14:27
55.   bhsportsguy
52 Your love for the original Toy Cannon right.
2008-02-10 10:15:16
56.   D4P
I think Valentine's Day is that holiday you celebrate with your significant other when you've only been together for a relatively short time, and are still actually "in love".

There. I said it.

2008-02-10 10:18:16
57.   overkill94
How sad is it that guys like Corey Patterson and Kenny Lofton still don't have a job and will probably settle for very modest 1-year contracts and we're still locked into Slappy for 4 more years?
2008-02-10 10:23:19
58.   D4P
Or a guy like Jose Cruz. Jr., who puts up Pierre-like numbers* for $1 million a year.

*Except that Jose can mash righties, while Pierre can only mash potatoes.

2008-02-10 10:28:01
59.   D4P
Check that: Cruz mashes lefties. In related news, ESPN's photo of Cruz still shows him with a Dodger hat on.
2008-02-10 10:30:06
60.   LAT
56. D4P, I'm going to let you take the lead on this idea.
2008-02-10 10:38:32
61.   paranoidandroid
58 Yeah, but can a plate of mash potatoes lead the league in sacrifice bunts? You need the real deal for that.

For Blanton, I'm willing to trade David Newhan and Edwin Jackson and maybe Joel Guzman as the prospect mentioned in the Denver Post. This is all contigent on the A's taking Loaiza and his contract back. And Billy Beane has to get Tampa to apologize for Baez and Carter before I approve any such trade.

2008-02-10 10:49:13
62.   paranoidandroid
56 This Valentine's Day, the wife and I are going for a romantic gathing at the tax advisor's office. Then we'll change up some poopy diapers, get the kids into bed, and then feast on a late meal of Gardenburgers and tots.

You might have a point D4P...

2008-02-10 10:56:31
63.   Bob Timmermann
So had Egypt in the African Cup of Nations pool?
2008-02-10 10:56:57
64.   Bob Timmermann
That needs a "who." Put in wherever you think it fits best.
2008-02-10 10:57:03
65.   D4P
WHEN I was one-and-twenty
I heard a wise man say,
'Give crowns and pounds and guineas
But not your heart away;

Give pearls away and rubies
But keep your fancy free.'
But I was one-and-twenty,
No use to talk to me.

When I was one-and-twenty
I heard him say again,
'The heart out of the bosom
Was never given in vain;
'Tis paid with sighs a plenty
And sold for endless rue.'
And I am two-and-twenty,
And oh, 'tis true, 'tis true.

This was always a favorite poem of mine. Before I got married (which also means, "before my first and only adult relationship"), I used to believe in an idealized fairy-tale conception of marriage involving happily ever after endings.

But I have come to learn over the past 7+ years that life gets in the way of love, and that the deck is stacked against fairy tale love stories.

2008-02-10 11:01:33
66.   Eric Stephen
This is similar to the Russell Martin situation with the Dodgers: Hanley Ramirez will likely not sign a long-term contract with the Marlins just yet. He has 2 years service time, and will hit arbitration for the first time in 2009. With the ink still wet on the Tulowitzki contract, Ramirez had this telling quote:

"If they would have offered me $20 million after my first year I would have taken it, but we're not there any more," Ramirez said.

Think of how much money the Marlins could have saved if they signed Hanley after last season. Now he will likely approach arbitration salary records. Then again, if the Marlins did sign Hanley, they wouldn't be the Marlins, would they?

2008-02-10 11:05:15
67.   underdog
I liked this line from Jeff Passan's piece on Peter Angelos on Yahoo Sports:
"In the past, Angelos has thought autonomy means the study of cars. "

Pretty accurate article on what appears to be a change on the part of the stubborn Angelos.


Wow, I'm back to hating the Celtics again, like the old days - I'm actually rooting for San Antonio.

2008-02-10 11:05:19
68.   Eric Stephen
Tony Clark is almost officially a Padre, for about $900k.

The D-Backs were close to signing Clark to a 2yr/$3m contract earlier in the offseason but for some reason negotiations went south. Clark went to high school in SD.

2008-02-10 11:06:47
69.   Eric Stephen
I'm rooting for the Celtics, because I don't want the Spurs to have a winning record on their 9 game road trip (they need to lose the final 3), because I want the Lakers' winning trip to have the sole spotlight! :)
2008-02-10 11:07:46
70.   underdog
Oh, link to the article cited in 67:

In other news, my soccer team played with no subs this morning vs a team made up mostly of Brazilians (I swear) and with what seemed like 20 subs, and still only lost 2-1. Our defense is only giving up on avg of 2 goals a game, which in our league is really good, but our forward keep missing games or showing up hung over. At least the weather's beautiful this weekend.

2008-02-10 11:08:16
71.   underdog
69 Stop being logical! ;-)
2008-02-10 11:11:14
72.   ToyCannon
If you can't be optimistic in Feb when can you be? If things break right for the Dodgers I see no reason why they can't be champions. I made sure not to specify what kind of champions they might be. Champions of the heart, Champions of the West, Champions of Los Angeles. It is all good in February.
2008-02-10 11:15:07
73.   D4P
Intercontinental Champions, TV Champions, Champions of Fire,
2008-02-10 11:22:15
74.   Eric Stephen
I would love nothing more than for the Lakers to beat the Celtics in the finals, but a more likely scenario (if the Lakers can get that far, of course) is the 1988 playoff run:


This can happen if the Lakers stay at the 6 seed, beating the 3 seed Spurs in round 1. Then they face the 2 seed Jazz (it could happen!) in the 2nd round, followed by the 4 seed Mavs in the conference finals (after Dallas beat the #1 seed Suns).

2008-02-10 11:41:18
75.   Icaros
Can someone explain why Popovich's complaints are getting press? He would veto the trade if he was on a trade committee? Duh.

For a team in rebuild mode like Memphis, the deal makes perfect sense, and it's going to look a lot less one-sided as Crittenton develops into the very good player he seems destined to become.

And, by the way, if any trade should be complained about it's McHale giving Garnett to his old team for nothing, especially since he turned down a much better deal from the Lakers (Bynum and Odom) in doing so.

2008-02-10 11:42:25
76.   underdog
Dunno if this was posted here before but seemed new - piece syndicated from USA Today on players who should make an impact on the '08 season, starting with Kuroda:

(Excerpt:)>>> "What those dimensions did for Kuroda was push him to refine a forkball that has become his most effective pitch. He also has a fastball in the low 90s and a slider he likes to throw at several levels, although getting it up in the strike zone is a concern. He allowed 20 homers in 179⅔ innings last season, the most he has given up in a season since 2000.

"We've been thinking about this for well over a year," Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti said after signing Kuroda. "Our expectation is he's going to be a real solid pitcher for us, make a lot of starts, pitch a lot of innings."

Kuroda's durability is crucial and considered a strength by new Royals manager Trey Hillman, who managed against Kuroda in Japan the past five seasons.

"He has got a body that should adapt and adjust to pitching every five days," Hillman said. "That should be one of the No. 1 things on a scout's list for bringing a Japanese pitcher over here."<<<

(I sometimes think the dimensions of Dodger Stadium are overplayed but thought that was a good piece on him overall.)

2008-02-10 11:44:12
77.   D4P
It's as if we're supposed to believe that Popovich would have altruistically turned down the offer if he were the Lakers's GM.
2008-02-10 11:45:09
78.   D4P
Plus, he's a warrior with runners on base.
2008-02-10 11:45:21
79.   underdog
Oh, and from same article, on Andy LR:

>>>"32. Andy LaRoche, 3B, Dodgers

LaRoche, 24, a right-handed batter, is projected to have enough power and RBI potential to bat in the middle of the order. The Dodgers want him to work on contact and not be concerned with power. He's a good defensive player, and several teams have tried to acquire him in a trade. He'll compete with Nomar Garciaparra for the job this spring."<<<

2008-02-10 11:47:16
80.   underdog
"You don't want to be around a fed-up Gregg Popovich" -- ABC announcer
2008-02-10 11:48:04
81.   Icaros

I hope they don't want him to work on contact in the Juan Pierre sense.

2008-02-10 11:49:36
82.   fanerman
75 I think the Memphis GM got a lot of flak for the deal from anonymous sources. So he came out and asked for his critics to say who they are or some nonsense.
2008-02-10 11:49:45
83.   D4P
I'm not sure there's any sense in which working on contact is a good thing. I mean, if the guy can't make good enough contact with the ball, he wouldn't have made it thus far in the first place.

LaRoche needs to work on keeping his back healthy. That's it.

2008-02-10 11:52:13
84.   underdog
83 True 'nuf. I think they want him to swing more, basically; we know he'll take some walks (unlike Juan Pierre), and indeed I'm sure his back had something to do with that. In short, I ain't worried.
2008-02-10 11:54:12
85.   Icaros

I could see them wanting him to work on making solid contact, as opposed to swinging for the fence, but I'm definitely not for the "swing at everything you see because striking out is the worst thing you can possibly do" approach that JP follows.

2008-02-10 11:56:52
86.   D4P
I'm really concerned that Management will mess LaRoche up by changing his approach. In fact, I think it's inevitable. They won't appreciate his patience (and walks), and will make him swing at bad pitches.

In some ways, I think we should trade him, to a team that will appreciate his appRoche, er. approach.

2008-02-10 11:58:13
87.   underdog
85 But... but... JP's swings for the fences are among some of the greatest moments in baseball. Especially when the ball leaves the infield.
2008-02-10 11:58:52
88.   Icaros

Jeez, you're negative even for you this morning.

2008-02-10 12:00:39
89.   Icaros

I think the deepest balls I've seen Pierre hit are those bunt doubles he popped over 3B a couple times.

2008-02-10 12:00:49
90.   D4P
It's true. Things aren't going so well right now.
2008-02-10 12:01:26
91.   D4P
Pierre hits plenty of balls over the fence, just not in fair territory.
2008-02-10 12:03:41
92.   Icaros

You can e-mail me if you need to vent, but these people here are just looking to have a good time, and you're scaring them.

2008-02-10 12:07:26
93.   D4P
Didn't Management potentially mess up Choi's approach? Granted, Tracy's gone, but it's not as if there's no precedent. It's also not as if the current Management is obviously opposed to Tracy's line of thinking.

But I don't mean to scare anyone. I'm really pretty non-threatening, once you get to know me.

2008-02-10 12:07:52
94.   bhsportsguy
I've spent this morning watching "The Maltese Falcon," it is one of my favorites.
2008-02-10 12:10:17
95.   regfairfield
Isn't LaRoche already really good at making contact?
2008-02-10 12:15:59
96.   bhsportsguy
And, Mike Easler, who coached Andy LaRoche at Jacksonville and Las Vegas is the hitting coach in LA this season, so I don't see why they would change his approach here if they didn't work on it in the minors.
2008-02-10 12:19:38
97.   natepurcell
D4P: Real Life

Mel Gibson: Conspiracy Theory

2008-02-10 12:20:29
98.   D4P
I think Management is no doubt unhappy with LaRoche's performance in the majors last season, and I suspect/fear that they will believe #1 instead of #2:

1. LaRoche's major league performance is an accurate indication of his ability, and that his minor league numbers are not.

2. LaRoche's major league performance was affected by his injuries, and is thus not an accurate indication of his ability. His minor league numbers indicate his true ability.

2008-02-10 12:22:31
99.   Bob Timmermann
The cheapest air fare now from Burbank to Cleveland involves a flight that goes from Burbank to Salt Lake City, then SLC to Las Vegas, and finally Las Vegas to Cleveland.

It would take 9 1/2 hours and run overnight.

I don't think I'll pick that flight.

2008-02-10 12:22:36
100.   Bob Timmermann
The cheapest air fare now from Burbank to Cleveland involves a flight that goes from Burbank to Salt Lake City, then SLC to Las Vegas, and finally Las Vegas to Cleveland.

It would take 9 1/2 hours and run overnight.

I don't think I'll pick that flight.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-02-10 12:23:13
101.   Bob Timmermann
Hmm... that was odd. Must not know my own strength with the new trackpad.
2008-02-10 12:27:29
102.   D4P
The cheapest flights from San Francisco to Redding involve flying first to Los Angeles. Other, more expensive options include flying first to Portland, or flying first to Los Angeles and then to Arcata, before heading for Redding.
2008-02-10 12:27:42
103.   Eric Stephen
Bob, for the SABR convention?
2008-02-10 12:28:51
104.   MC Safety
Post # 78 was pretty funny.
2008-02-10 12:30:53
105.   Ken Noe
93 Dissertations become mistresses. Not knowing where you'll be in a year, or if there is a job at all, is tough on both partners in a relationship. I don't know any details, and sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I do know that this stage is a tough time. It's just one of those things that no one ever prepares you for.
2008-02-10 12:33:19
106.   paranoidandroid
94 Have you seen Breach? New century version of "Falcon and the Snowman".

I don't know why whenver someone mentions Maltese Falcon I think of Timothy Hutton.

2008-02-10 12:36:44
107.   D4P
Your bark is aimed at the correct tree. Among other things, I found out today that my dissertation defense (scheduled for this Wednesday) will need to be postponed for a month because one of my committee members (a senior scholar and veritable who's who in the field) is not willing to sign off on my dissertation as it currently exists. I think the other 4 members would sign off, which is all I technically need, but I want to make the dissenter happy.

The hard thing is that most of his concerns are things I predicted he would bring up, and have been worried about all along. But I can't do anything about most of them either, so I feel stuck.

Mrs. D4P doesn't even know this yet, and things are already rough as it is. This isn't going to make her any happier.

On the somewhat bright side, I have been contacted for at least one job interview, so there's that to feel good about.

2008-02-10 12:37:33
108.   D4P
Dissertations become mistresses

But without the hot, forbidden eroticism.

2008-02-10 12:38:13
109.   MC Safety
Im looking for a nice, competitive roto league. Any pointers?
2008-02-10 12:43:00
110.   Bob Timmermann
I was going to go to Cleveland for the waters.
2008-02-10 12:49:08
111.   Bob Timmermann
The unnamed school led ASU by 16 in the first half and is now down by 8 with 11:48 to go in the game.

Watching the unnamed school suffer makes me happy.

2008-02-10 12:50:16
112.   Eric Stephen
So the Celtics are 16-0 against the West now after beating the Spurs today. However, 11 of those 16 games were at home. They still have to play the following tough games:

2 vs. Phoenix
at Dallas
2 vs. New Orleans
at San Antonio
at Denver
at Golden State
at Houston
at Portland

I'd like to see where they stand after these games.

2008-02-10 12:51:24
113.   Eric Stephen
The bigger question is, if the unnamed school somehow comes back to win, do their fans storm the court?
2008-02-10 12:52:58
114.   Bob Timmermann
Right now the fans of the unnamed school are booing their own team, so if they storm the court it may be for a different purpose.

I get the impression that the basketball fans of the unnamed school don't drink as much as the football fans.

2008-02-10 12:53:22
115.   Bob Timmermann
Chase Budinger is 0 for 9 from the field.
2008-02-10 12:55:47
116.   Eric Stephen
Apparently Dorell Wright is a HOFer.
2008-02-10 12:55:48
117.   D4P
I hope that, someday, we'll start using "court" instead of "field" in this context.

When you think about it, "field goals" and "free throws" are pretty unsatisfactory terms.

2008-02-10 12:58:02
118.   Bob Timmermann
If the good Dr. Naismith thought that "field goal" and "free throw" were proper, far be it from me to disagree.
2008-02-10 13:02:38
119.   Eric Stephen
I for one would like to know the league leaders in basket shot conversion and unguarded stationary shot percentage.
2008-02-10 13:04:18
120.   Bob Timmermann
This is not the same ASU team that I saw play at USC last weekend. These guys can shoot, score, and play defense.

Pendergraph is a beast inside and Glasser has turned into Fat Lever.

2008-02-10 13:07:13
121.   FiftyYearDodgerFan
I used to take my son to Vero every Spring for many years during his two week Spring break until he left for college. We stayed in Vero, but attended games pretty much all over. I think this may have contributed to him later working in the front office of an MLB team. We have a lot of great memories of Dodgertown.

Having said all of that, I can't wait for the team to move to Arizona next year. I have been to Spring trianing in Vero Beach for about ten years. I got tired of how tourists were hustled by the locals. While Dodgertown once once a state of the art facility, it is now badly run down and in need of total renovation.

Perhaps the worst of the Spring experience for me was having to drive for hours to attend "road" games. The Mets complext was the closest and it was about 45 min. to an hour away. In Phoenix, most of the other complexes are within a one hour drive of Glendale, at worst.

Dodgertown was nice, but its time has passed. Finally, the Dodgers are cutting the last east coast ties and bringing the Spring training experience within the reach of most of their fans. It's about time.

2008-02-10 13:07:43
122.   Ken Noe
107 Ah yes, one of those moments when I realize that I should be calling myself something like "Davey Lopes" on here. I could tell stories...but I can say that if were you in my office tomorrow, I'd remind you that a March defense has no effect on getting a position, and that you can never, ever, please an entire committee anyway. We'd then complain about Pierre. You will get through this.
2008-02-10 13:08:57
123.   FiftyYearDodgerFan
Sorry, I didn't proof that before editing. I intended to write "I haven't been to Spring training in Vero Beach for about ten years."
2008-02-10 13:16:43
124.   silverwidow
Dodgers close to signing Mark Sweeney

2008-02-10 13:27:29
125.   Bob Timmermann
Real Pac-10 standings
UCLA 9-1, 21-2
Stanford 9-2, 20-3
WSU 6-5, 18-5
USC 6-5, 15-8
ASU 5-5, 15-7
(unnamed school) 5-5, 15-8
Oregon 5-6, 14-9
Cal 5-6, 14-8
UW 3-7, 12-11
OSU 0-11, 6-17

UCLA at UW next
The tied schools are listed in order by who would win the tiebreaker.

2008-02-10 13:27:50
126.   D4P
I can't wait to move on to a different project. I'm sick of this one, and I've known all along that it has problems. Working on your advisor's pre-existing project and deriving your dissertation from it has a lot of advantages, but the primary drawback is that you don't get to design the project specifically to answer the questions you want to answer in your dissertation.

I'm not too worried (at this point) about postponing the defense per se, because I should still be able to graduate this semester. But I am worried about whether or not I can really address the problems.

There's at least two forces at war within me. One force is the practical, just let me graduate and get outta here force that doesn't care about how good my dissertation is as long as it gets approved. But the other force is concerned that faculty will view my dissertation as indicative of my current and potential quality as a researcher, which makes me sad because I am well aware of the flaws in my project and would have done things differently if it had been completely up to me.

2008-02-10 13:30:27
127.   overkill94
120 Pendegraph is mediocre, it's just that Arizona can't defend the post to save their life. Plus, it seems that they really suffer when any of their top five players are out since they have absolutely no depth (i.e. when Bayless was out in January and now with Wise out). Hopefully they can finish .500 in league which should be good enough for a tourney bid.
2008-02-10 13:35:47
128.   Bob Timmermann
The unnameds don't exactly have a favorable schedule down the stretch. They have both Northwest trips still to go. And I would think that the unnameds don't match up well with Stanford.
2008-02-10 13:48:42
129.   overkill94
Well, here's my confidence level of them winning the following games:

@ Oregon - 40%
@ OSU - 85%
@ WSU - 50%
@ Washington - 60%
vs. USC - 60%
vs. UCLA - 10%
vs. Stanford - 30%
vs. Cal - 65%

2008-02-10 13:52:31
130.   Eric Stephen
Updated +/- standings (you knew this was coming):

UCLA: +4 (9-1; Pomeroy rank 3)
Stanford: +3 (9-2; 10)
USC: +2 (6-5; 27)
Wash St: 0 (6-5; 9)
ASU: 0 (5-5; 50)
Arizona: 0 (5-5; 20)
Oregon: 0 (5-6; 46)
Cal: -2 (5-6; 47)
Washington: -3 (3-7; 75)
Oregon St: -4 (0-11; 172)

Pomeroy ratings are through yesterday.

2008-02-10 14:01:20
131.   Bob Timmermann
Nikola Dragovic is shooting like me today.
2008-02-10 14:04:00
132.   Eric Stephen
Were you subject to the inevitable questions of "do you play basketball" because of your height?
2008-02-10 14:06:39
133.   Bob Timmermann
I still am.
2008-02-10 14:16:00
134.   trainwreck
2008-02-10 14:17:55
135.   ToyCannon
We just added a 21 year old 6'7 large body kid who dislikes all sports. He gets very cranky when he's walking the floor and gets peppered with basketball questions. He could tell them everything they would ever need to know about World of Warcraft but has no clue who Kobe Bryant is.
2008-02-10 14:20:08
136.   ToyCannon
Sounds like a tough position to be in. Not knowing anything about dissertations I can only say good luck.
2008-02-10 14:23:02
137.   trainwreck
UCLA needs to calm down. Set up the offense.
2008-02-10 14:23:10
138.   ToyCannon
Al Jefferson will end up better then all four of the players that Memphis got combined. McHale did just fine for once.
2008-02-10 14:25:34
139.   trainwreck
The ball hit Dentmon!!! How is that not UCLA's ball?
2008-02-10 14:26:28
140.   Bob Timmermann
It didn't matter much at the end.
2008-02-10 14:34:07
141.   trainwreck
This isn't 'Nam. There are rules.
2008-02-10 14:35:41
142.   Bob Timmermann
But the refs got the call right.

The weird call was Pondexter getting credit for a basket and at the same time getting called for a foul after the shot. So the basket counted. The call made almost, but not quite, entirely no sense.

2008-02-10 14:40:05
143.   trainwreck
What is a Pac-10 sporting event without horrible officiating?
2008-02-10 14:43:02
144.   Bob Timmermann
You need to watch more West Coast Conference games.
2008-02-10 14:45:29
145.   trainwreck
Way too much Dragovic in this game.
2008-02-10 14:51:04
146.   Bob Timmermann
I guess Kevin Love has turned into Andrew Bogut.
2008-02-10 14:56:06
147.   trainwreck
Durant was a UCLA fan growing up, but we never bothered to recruit him.
2008-02-10 14:58:01
148.   Eric Stephen
Lawler's Law has been enacted in Miami.
2008-02-10 15:03:17
149.   Bob Timmermann
Lawler's Law made more sense back in the early 1980s when teams scored more.
2008-02-10 15:05:59
150.   Icaros

But that wasn't my comparison. I'd rather take Bynum for Garnett than Jefferson.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-02-10 15:29:10
151.   Joe Pierre
It's a sad sad tail very sad told by Newcombe about Vero Beach. Racism is an unbelievable thing and hard to understand. After reading Bill Plaschke & Ross Newhan's articles it's safe to say that there are some people who are glad to get out of there. I feel very bad for the simple fact that I never made an effort to go there in my 60 years as a Dodger fan. I regret I let my chance go by. I understand many of the Brooklyn Dodgers will not make the trip to Arizona. That makes it even sadder.
2008-02-10 15:30:03
152.   ToyCannon
Missed your point, I thought you were comparing the Memphis and Timberwolve deals.

So for those watching the UCLA game, that clip of the Bucks singing contained Junior Bridgeman. Without looking it up why was Junior integral to the Lakers Championships in the 80's?

2008-02-10 15:31:43
153.   Bob Timmermann
Wasn't Bridgeman traded for a high draft pick by the Lakers?
2008-02-10 15:31:43
154.   ToyCannon
I'm bummed the Brooklyn guys won't make the trip but I expect to hit the new site next year and for every year after that. I think many LA Dodger fans feel the same way.
2008-02-10 15:32:44
155.   ToyCannon
No, he never played for the Lakers.
2008-02-10 15:34:36
156.   Bob Timmermann
Bridgeman was part of the deal for Kareem wasn't he? Elmore Smith, Dave Myers, and Junior Bridgeman. The latter two were draft picks.
2008-02-10 15:35:03
157.   Eric Stephen
That was a pretty classic clip. Junior Bridgeman sounds familiar, but I can't remember why.
2008-02-10 15:39:51
158.   Andrew Shimmin
Does a timeout reset the shot clock?
2008-02-10 15:40:28
159.   Bob Timmermann
2008-02-10 15:40:57
160.   Bob Timmermann
Timeouts do reset the 10-second count in the backcourt.

That does not apply to the NBA 8-second count however.

2008-02-10 15:42:13
161.   ToyCannon
Right, the key was Myers and Winters. Junior ended being a solid 6th man. I think Myers was wracked with injuries.
2008-02-10 15:42:19
162.   Eric Stephen
I wouldn't mind seeing a biography of Marques Johnson. He seems like an underrated player from the late 70s and 80s.
2008-02-10 15:42:26
163.   LAT
How is the second worst team in div. beating the best. I love Howland but I hate the way he wastes his TOs to slow down the game.
2008-02-10 15:45:51
164.   Andrew Shimmin
Chucking it off the guy's face, like that, isn't a foul? Huh.
2008-02-10 15:46:22
165.   ToyCannon
Don't think I've ever seen someone throw the ball that hard at someone's face like that before. He must be wearing dimples.
2008-02-10 15:46:39
166.   Bob Timmermann
It happens in college basketball. Washington isn't all that bad, but they really benefited from a ragged game and Darren Collison going AWOL for this game.
2008-02-10 15:47:18
167.   Eric Stephen
It seems much of the Lakers history is built upon fleece-type trades.

Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Worthy, and Kobe were all acquired in what proved to be lopsided deals.

2008-02-10 15:48:00
168.   Bob Timmermann
It's all in the intent. If Morris was trying to hurt Aboya, he would have been T'd up.

If Washington plays UCLA in the Pac-10 tournament, I wouldn't like their chances in the rubber game.

2008-02-10 15:48:40
169.   Andrew Shimmin
165- I have. But it was understood as an invitation to fight, not a tactical maneuver. It hurt like hell, too, I don't mind telling you.
2008-02-10 15:48:41
170.   ToyCannon
My memory of Marques before he got hurt is that he was one of the best. I think he was the best Bruin I saw play besides Walton.

I'm really ticked the Bruins got beat by the Huskies. If they were going to lose in Washington I would rather see them lose to the Cougars and kick the Huskies butt then the other way around.

2008-02-10 15:50:52
171.   LAT
How is intentionally slaming the ball off the face of another player not a technical.
2008-02-10 15:51:10
172.   Bob Timmermann

Don't tell Gregg Popovich that.

The Celtics were built on lopsided trades also. Unless you think Ed Macaulay was as good as Bill Russell.

Bob Cousy went to the Celtics when the team he was first on went out of business and the Celtics won a drawing for the rights to sign him.

2008-02-10 15:53:26
173.   Bob Timmermann
Because no technical foul was called is the easy answer.

If Aboya had been hurt, then there might have been a technical foul called. Or if it was from longer distance.

2008-02-10 15:54:27
174.   ToyCannon
That is true and it took 3 fleece trades to make that 80's team. When you can turn Elmore Smith, Winters, Myers, Bridgeman, Don Ford, an old Gail Goodrich into Kareem, Worthy, and Magic you were doing something right and the genius of Jerry West was nowhere in site at that time.
I still remember the arguements over who they should take, Sidney Moncrief or Magic Johnson. As if.
2008-02-10 15:55:35
175.   Bob Timmermann
So only the ACC is deemed worthy of HD today by FSN? For shame.
2008-02-10 16:09:12
176.   LAT
173. Seemed to me that he could have achived the same result off Aboya's chest or leg. Throwing it in his grill is just gratuitous.
2008-02-10 16:10:29
177.   Bob Timmermann
Real Pac-10 standings
UCLA 9-2, 21-3
Stanford 9-2, 20-3
WSU 6-5, 18-5
USC 6-5, 15-8
ASU 5-5, 15-7
(unnamed school) 5-5, 15-8
Oregon 5-6, 14-9
Cal 5-6, 14-8
UW 4-7, 13-11
OSU 0-11, 6-17
2008-02-10 17:01:40
178.   Bluebleeder87
For those of you who've never soon "Office Space" it's on Comedy Central right now. It's a delightfully stupid/funny movie.
2008-02-10 17:03:48
179.   underdog
The Sporting News ranks all the NL infields:

Dodgers are 8th, one behind the Padres. Hrm. Fraley's write-up for the Dodgers sure is quick and lazy, too. Still, if you like lists, these are fun to scroll through.

Dodgers rank #1 in the league in catching though, for obvious reasons.

2008-02-10 17:05:21
180.   underdog
178 It's hard to imagine such a person exists. I actually got my mom and stepdad to watch it - twice!

I was thinking of doing a blog entry about how the same ten movies are basically shown in rotation on basic cable channels, ad infinitum. Another one is Mrs. Doubtfire.

2008-02-10 17:38:07
181.   Marty
I've never seen Office Space.
2008-02-10 17:38:25
182.   Bob Timmermann
Apparently Roy Williams can get a timeout called by just claiming that he wanted to call one.
2008-02-10 17:39:43
183.   Bob Timmermann
I will also add that Tim Brando is an idiot.
2008-02-10 17:46:54
184.   MC Safety
I just watched Office Space for the first time recently. Has anyone here seen the Garbage Pail Kids movie?
2008-02-10 17:54:05
185.   overkill94
167 For those of us too young to have experienced said fleecings, what were the actual trades?
2008-02-10 17:59:01
186.   D4P
The highlights of the Laker game show Kobe attempting a running left-handed jump hook from inside the key. It's the kinda shot you pretty much never see anyone take, and there's really no reason to take.

But he made it.

2008-02-10 18:00:25
187.   trainwreck
Wait till you see Jrue Holiday next year.
2008-02-10 18:01:44
188.   trainwreck
Clemson needs to stop trying the terrible lobs.
2008-02-10 18:09:31
189.   Bob Timmermann
Kids today

"In 1975, the Lakers acquired Abdul-Jabbar and reserve center Walt Wesley from the Bucks for center Elmore Smith, guard Brian Winters, and rookie "blue chippers" Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman."

"Lakers — Sent 1977 second round pick (#44-Essie Hollis), 1978 first round pick (#16-Jack Givens) to Jazz and received 1977 first round pick (#6-Kenny Carr), 1978 first round pick (#8-Freeman Williams), 1979 first round pick (#1-Earvin `Magic` Johnson), 1980 second round pick (#26-Sam Worthen) from Jazz on 8/5/76 as compensation for Lakers 7/19/76 signing of free agent Gail Goodrich"

"Lakers — Traded Don Ford, 1980 first round pick (#22-Chad Kinch) to Cavaliers for Butch Lee, 1982 first round pick (#1-James Worthy) on 2/15/80"

Were you alive in 1996?

2008-02-10 18:10:21
190.   trainwreck
The Basketball Gods clearly had it out for me today.
2008-02-10 18:10:43
191.   Eric Stephen
1) Lakers traded Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark, and Darrell Imhoff for Wilt Chamberlain in 1968. They made the finals 4 of the next 5 years.

2) Lakers traded Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, and new draft picks Junior Bridgeman and Dave Meyers for Kareem in 1975

3) An aging Gail Goodrich signed with the Jazz after 1976, and under league rules at the time the Lakers had rights to compensation. The Jazz traded a 1st and 2nd pick in 1978, plus their 1st rounder in 1979. The last pick ended up as Magic

4) In 1980, the Lakers traded Don Ford to the Cavs for a future 1st round pick, which turned out to be overall 1982 #1 Worthy.

5) In 1996, the Hornets drafted Kobe #13, and the Lakers traded Vlade Divac for his rights.

2008-02-10 18:11:05
192.   Bob Timmermann
Timmermann's law of overtimes in effect in North Carolina: First to team to get ahead by two scores wins.
2008-02-10 18:16:15
193.   trainwreck
I hate North Carolina.
2008-02-10 18:17:45
194.   D4P
Sometimes I wish I had never moved to North Carolina.
2008-02-10 18:17:55
195.   Bob Timmermann
It wouldn't be as bad if Tim Brando didn't blame everything on a curse.
2008-02-10 18:21:21
196.   Bob Timmermann
No sporting event has ever been decided by a curse.
2008-02-10 18:21:27
197.   Icaros

Sometimes I wish I had never been born.

2008-02-10 18:22:42
198.   Bob Timmermann
Can I have my stuff back?
2008-02-10 18:23:26
199.   trainwreck
UNC was spitting fire in the second half?

If Clemson was not so stupid they would have beaten UNC twice this year.

2008-02-10 18:25:06
200.   D4P
I know what you mean. Life is hard.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-02-10 18:25:57
201.   Icaros

I already donated it all to FEMA.

2008-02-10 18:28:51
202.   Bob Timmermann
To end these streaks, all you need is a bad coach in one place and a good one in another.

Navy had beaten Notre Dame in football for 40 years and then Charlie Weis happened.

Washington State had never beaten UCLA in basketball in Los Angeles until Dick Bennett came around and Howland was coaching his first year and just had Lavin's leftovers.

2008-02-10 18:53:58
203.   Eric Stephen
According to Diamond Leung, Mike Sweeney's contract is not guaranteed.

Sweeney would have to make the team out of spring training to have his contract guaranteed

2008-02-10 18:56:54
204.   Bluebleeder87
That's cool (I was just checking the Dodger spring training schedule) & on Feb '29 the Dodger game will be on ESPN against Atlanta @ 10:05am, I also didn't realize only 1 game will be played at the Los Angeles memorial Coliseum, for some reason I thought all 3 spring training games against the BoSox were gonna be played there.
2008-02-10 19:01:07
205.   Jon Weisman
203 - We need to get that Mike/Mark thing squared away by Opening Day. That's what Spring Training is for :)
2008-02-10 19:10:22
206.   Eric Stephen
Damn! I want to say I can't believe I did that, but of course I can.

Spring training is also for Adam LaRoche to win the 3B job. If he doesn't win, I bet Bob will go nucular at the liberry! :)

2008-02-10 19:20:21
207.   Sagehen
194 Since I don't keep up on all the Dodger Thoughts posts, I came to today's posts without knowing all the background. When D4P mentioned having 5 people on the dissertation committee, I thought to myself, "You mean there are schools other than North Carolina who require that many people (which is overkill)?" So now I find the answer is apparently not. Have no fear, D4P -- the people on your committee, the ones who really know you, will not view that one document as the be all and end all of your research. I was shocked to find that my committee viewed the dissertation as "an exercise." It's not the dissertation that they measure you by. Ultimately, it's what you do after you complete the "exercise" and are relaxed enough to do your real research. Dare I ask what program you're in?
2008-02-10 19:33:47
208.   das411
...not on topic at all, but major thanks to whoever suggested those old Dodger World Series videos. I bought the new 2-dvd set that has the films from 1959, 63, 65, 81, and 88 on it, and watched them all this weekend. What a way to get ready for pitchers and catchers!

(although it was kind of odd that the video quality was better for 1965 than '81...hmm...but "Vince Scully" sounds exactly the same even 50 years ago!)

2008-02-10 19:41:27
209.   MJW101
The bench now looks more like 2007 (except for a downgrade at C):

C Bennett
1b/PH Sweeney
2b/ss Martinez/Abreu
3b/PH Nomar
OF/PH Ethier
OF/PH Young/Repko

2008-02-10 19:42:27
210.   Eric Stephen
I'm watching the 1963 video right now!
2008-02-10 19:44:04
211.   regfairfield
Someone is going to need to get the axe when we go to a 12 man pitching staff. Wonder who that will be?
2008-02-10 19:47:21
212.   Sagehen
211. Abreu and LaRoche still have options, as does Repko. It won't hurt Abreu to get some regular playing time in AAA on and off through the season. Nomar and Young can backup second and short (in a pinch) on those occasions.
2008-02-10 19:49:35
213.   Eric Stephen
I will bet a sizable amount of money that neither Nomar or Young see any time at SS in 2008. Either Abreu, Hu, or Lucille II will be on the roster at all times as the backup this year.
2008-02-10 19:50:31
214.   regfairfield
211 I figure this guarantees Repko won't be on the 25 man now, and we can't not have a backup middle infielder (Nomar and Delwyn don't count). Nomar is the sensible one to DFA since Sweeney makes him pretty redundant, but I doubt that happens.
2008-02-10 19:53:38
215.   Sagehen
213 Then LaRoche goes down when we go to 12 pitchers (or Nomar goes on the DL).
2008-02-10 19:57:18
216.   Eric Stephen
If we go with a 12-man staff, this leaves the following options:

1) LaRoche gets sent down -- this is unlikely but possible
2) Ethier (or you know who) is traded -- highly unlikely
3) Young and Sweeney battle for a roster spot, with a large bias toward Sweeney.

2008-02-10 20:01:43
217.   Sagehen
216 I don't see Young getting dumped, though. Ned likes depth. Lots of depth. There's little to no outfield depth in AAA. Young and Repko are 5 and 6 on the depth chart, but that's it.

Or perhaps I'm just trying to be optimistic because I would absolutely hate to see Young given away.

I still think Abreu could be sent down in short term bursts in order to get regular playing time in AAA.

2008-02-10 20:04:42
218.   Eric Stephen
Maybe by the time we go to a 12th pitcher, Sweeney himself will be the odd man out.
2008-02-10 20:05:29
219.   Sagehen
Assuming there are no injuries (highly unlikely), who from the 12 man pitching staff could be sent down? I don't think any of these guys have options left (at least not of the replaceable ones): Penny, Lowe, Billingsley, Kuroda, Loaiza, Schmidt, Kuo, Proctor, Seanez, Beimel, Broxon, Saito. That's 12. Barring injury, Ned didn't create a whole lot of roster flexibility by signing Seanez and Sweeney.
2008-02-10 20:07:32
220.   Sagehen
As I think about it, signing Sweeney only makes sense if Ethier is the starting leftfielder. Otherwise, Ethier is the main left-handed pinchhitter, and Sweeney is not needed.
2008-02-10 20:08:14
221.   CanuckDodger
The key thing is that Sweeney's contract is not guaranteed. I think he is just more spring training insurance, because there is no way he fits on the team. Nomar already backs up 1st base, and Pierre/Ethier bats left, and Young and Abreu switch hit. Sweeney serves no purpose. We are not punting Young.
2008-02-10 20:09:46
222.   Eric Stephen
I would guess one or both of Schmidt and Kuo will be on the DL to start the year.

Or if Ethier is traded.

2008-02-10 20:26:39
223.   GoBears
207 I had to have 5 members on my disseration committee, and 2 had to be from outside my department. All 5 had to sign off. In my current department, students need only 2 inside and 1 outside member to sign off.

The dissertation exists for one reason - to get you a job. Or, more accurately, to get you interviews - actually landing the job is up to how you perform once you're there.

I try to drill this into our students, too many of whom see their dissertations as their life's work, that the dissertation should end up being the worst thing you produce in your career, and that the PhD, and heck, even a job, are only means to an end. That goal, of course, is tenure in a place you want to stay, so that you never have to dress nicely again.

Some people are more ambitious than that, and seeks fame, and, believe it or not, even fortune. But none of that can happen unless you first get tenure.

Don't know if that was reassuring or terrifying, D4P, but just keep plugging away, and you'll get there. Sounds like you have the right attitude (about academia, not baseball - your attitude about baseball is horrifying).

Oh, and I forgive you for what your Ducks did to my Bears.

2008-02-10 20:27:35
224.   68elcamino427
222 I agree with you. Everyone is pulling for Schmidt to make a full recovery, but I will be surprised if he isn't on the DL to start the season.
2008-02-10 20:27:48
225.   Bob Timmermann
Someone needs a bigger boat.

RIP Roy Scheider.

2008-02-10 20:28:35
226.   GoBears
um, I meant "dissertation." What the heck is a disseration?!

I even previewed! Ack.

2008-02-10 20:29:56
227.   Eric Stephen
I was watching the 1963 World Series video, and noticed it was a Lew Fonseca production. That name sounded familiar, so I looked it up, and he was an ex-player that essentially created a Sabol-esque MLB production company that lasted over 35 years.

2008-02-10 20:30:32
228.   Sagehen
226 I take it you didn't get "all the ts crossed" on yours. Tee hee.
2008-02-10 20:31:53
229.   Sagehen
223 D4P, listen to GoBears. He speaks the truth.
2008-02-10 20:34:05
230.   Eric Stephen
Very nice. I might have went with "Seaquest DOA", but yours is better.
2008-02-10 20:36:16
231.   Eric Stephen
Watching the Grammy Awards, I'm inspired by crappy award shows. If DT every gave out awards, I nominate this line for Best Compliment:

Sounds like you have the right attitude (about academia, not baseball - your attitude about baseball is horrifying)

2008-02-10 20:39:09
232.   Bob Timmermann
I'm watching a DVD of the first sound picture to win an Oscar for Best Picture "Broadway Melody."

Films have improved significantly since 1929. One of the leads in the film is still alive.

2008-02-10 20:39:53
233.   Bob Timmermann
I should have gone with
"Charon, you're gonna a need bigger raft."
2008-02-10 20:43:51
234.   Eric Stephen
Fitting that Anita Page's last film to date was "Bob' Night Out."
2008-02-10 20:50:12
235.   Eric Stephen
Why is Jason Bateman at the Grammy's, when he could be filming the Arrested Development movie?
2008-02-10 20:50:19
236.   trainwreck
2008-02-10 20:58:57
237.   silverwidow
Again, LaRoche is going nowhere (not AAA, not traded). He's the only real 3rd baseman on the roster.
2008-02-10 21:00:42
238.   Eric Stephen
I and many others agree with you, but he was also the only real 3rd baseman on the roster after Betemit was traded last year, and look where that got him.
2008-02-10 21:08:10
239.   Gen3Blue
A team gets its offense wherever it can. Ranking infields by offense, and w/o catchers at that, seems about as valuable as ranking pitchers by their pick-off moves: It has some merit--but how much?
Just a wierd way of divying things up.
2008-02-10 21:32:53
240.   Sagehen
238 LaRoche is a notoriously slow starter. My prediction: after a weak spring training, the Dodger send him to AAA until his bat starts to heat up. He'll be up by May 1st, though, after Nomar blows out his oblique (his oblique what, I don't know).
2008-02-10 21:37:55
241.   silverwidow
240 As far as I know, this is the first healthy spring for Andy in a long time. That's why things should be different.
2008-02-10 21:58:25
242.   CanuckDodger
241 -- Actually, Logan White said last year, when LaRoche was looking bad in spring training, that LaRoche has ALWAYS had bad spring trainings, right back to 2004, his first with the organization, and that was before any health issues arose. LaRoche is just one of those guys who looks really rusty in spring training. But he is going to have to change that if he hopes to make a good impression on Torre.
2008-02-10 22:01:55
243.   overkill94
Is anybody else ecstatic that Slayer won a Grammy?
2008-02-10 22:33:01
244.   Sagehen
243 Who is Slayer?
2008-02-10 22:35:08
245.   Icaros

Would have been ecstatic had it happened 15 years ago.

2008-02-11 00:10:57
246.   overkill94
245 Eh, their 90's output was pretty mediocre by their standards. Their latest album is actually pretty good although nothing groundbreaking. What would really make me wet my pants would be some sort of retroactive Grammy giving them best everything for 1986's Reign in Blood.
2008-02-11 05:03:26
247.   Ken Noe
Had only three on my dissertation committee. My current employer requires a fourth member from out of the department.

The Sweeney signing makes sense unless it costs the team Young or signals an attempt to move Ethier. I will hate--hate--moving Ethier to make room for Ned's Folly.

2008-02-11 07:24:09
248.   Terry A
I agree with 221 . And trading Ethier doesn't really solve anything unless he's traded for minor leaguers, which doesn't really make any sense. Why deal a young, somewhat-proven young outfielder for a handful of maybe?

Sweeney feeds the Crown Prince's fetish for depth overkill. And, of course, he's a former Giant. And a PVL. So, as Michael Scott would say, "win/win/win."

2008-02-11 08:22:45
249.   regfairfield
248 Because he has a low ceiling and has nowhere to play on this team. Whatever we get for him would probably be more valuable than the 200 at bats he'll give us this year.
2008-02-11 08:27:01
250.   JoeyP
But that wasn't my comparison. I'd rather take Bynum for Garnett than Jefferson.

I dont know about that:
Al Jefferson has had some monster games this year. Granted, he's playing on a bad team and lots of minutes, so inevitablty he'll put up big numbers. But McHale didnt do that bad in the deal.

The Shaq for Marion deal just illustrates how bad Mitch got taken to the cleaners when he traded Shaq. How is that Miami can get a better player (Marion), than what the Lakers got back...and not have to take back any bad contracts (Brian Grant) like the Lakers had to take back?

I'll lay off Mitch though bc the Gasol and Ariza deals, plus not trading Kobe---have made him alot more acceptable this year. Plus, who knew that Fisher still had this much left in him? Good job Mitch.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-02-11 09:09:51
251.   Andrew Shimmin
226 - Along with hateration and holleration, it's what we don't need in this dance-arie.
2008-02-11 09:16:48
252.   Jon Weisman
At Baseball Prospectus, are WX, WXL, WXR and WXRL rate stats or cumulative stats? I take it Fair RA is a rate stat, right? What's the best rate stat for measuring a reliever?
2008-02-11 09:23:04
253.   Eric Stephen
Jon, just looking at their glossary, it looks like those stats are cumulative rather than rate stats, except for Fair RA (rate stat).
2008-02-11 09:24:07
254.   regfairfield
252 Divide WXRL by innings pitched?
2008-02-11 09:27:19
255.   Jon Weisman
Remember that little Andre Ethier controversy in Wrigley Field last year?

Some group of people just voted Ethier a Fan Friendly award.

One doesn't have much to do with the other, but I thought I'd pass it along.

2008-02-11 09:28:18
256.   Andrew Shimmin
1) The WXes are cumulative stats.
2) Fair RA is a rate state.
3) Saves.
2008-02-11 09:31:22
257.   Jon Weisman
254 - You'd find that a respectable rate stat? If so, I'll go with that.
2008-02-11 09:32:14
258.   regfairfield
257 It was just off the top of my head, and I can't think of anything wrong with it.
2008-02-11 09:40:29
259.   Jon Weisman
This is what I get for WXRL/IP*9 for Dodger relievers in 2007

Takashi Saito 0.81
Jonathan Broxton 0.31
Joe Beimel 0.29
Chin-Hui Tsao 0.22
Scott Proctor 0.21
Rudy Seanez 0.09
D.J. Houlton 0.07
Eric Hull 0.00
Jonathan Meloan -0.10
Roberto Hernandez -0.35
Yhency Brazoban -1.99

2008-02-11 09:44:19
260.   regfairfield
259 Yeah, that matches what I have.
2008-02-11 09:49:32
261.   old dodger fan
How bad is a "replacement level" pitcher? What might his ERA+ be?
2008-02-11 09:56:28
262.   regfairfield
261 Andy Sonnasstine came the closest to replacement level last year with a 77 ERA+.
2008-02-11 10:00:54
263.   Andrew Shimmin
Aren't the WXes weighted by leverage? Unless you're positing a closer's mentality, it seems like you're giving extra credit to pitchers who happened to have the managers confidence. Or pitchers who played for teams where the manager didn't know any better than to do what he did.
2008-02-11 10:01:48
264.   Gen3Blue
Well,well. This could be a case of how little it can take to get nasty rumors going.
2008-02-11 10:11:57
265.   MC Safety
262 Without looking, didnt he put up some decent K/bb numbers?
2008-02-11 10:26:09
266.   Eric Stephen
First time arbitration eligible Garrett Atkins signed a one year deal with the Rockies, for $4,387,500.

Incentive clauses are:
$17,500 for each of 600, 625, 650 PA
$20,000 for each of 675 & 700 PA

2008-02-11 10:27:26
267.   Gen3Blue
259 This could be a good approach, but there is something uncomfortable about Saito's no. .81 that seems to be in units something like wins above a replacement player per game. Maybe someone who has investigated stats far more recently than I can shed some light on this.
2008-02-11 10:34:28
268.   Jon Weisman
267 - What's the discomfort?
2008-02-11 10:40:08
269.   Eric Stephen
Even with their loss, UCLA remained at #4 in the Ken Pomeroy ratings. Here are the Pomeroy ranks for the Pac-10:

UCLA - 4
WSU - 9
Stanford - 10
unnamed school - 23
USC - 27
Oregon - 46
ASU - 48
Cal - 49
Washington - 61
OSU - 169

2008-02-11 10:40:17
270.   Andrew Shimmin
267- Wins above replacement player per nine innings--since Saito usually only pitches one inning, it would mean that he'd be worth about one extra win (compared to a bad player used in the same way) per 11, one inning appearances.
2008-02-11 10:45:02
271.   Andrew Shimmin
RIP Tom Lantos.

2008-02-11 10:54:21
272.   silverwidow
OT: What is a recommended brand for LCD monitors? I'm looking for a non-widescreen 19" model. Thanks for any help.
2008-02-11 10:56:28
273.   Eric Stephen
I know it's hard as Dodger fans that we've gone 19 years without a championship, but at least we get to celebrate our 50th anniversary with something to show for it, unlike Giants' fans!

Side note: think of the tragedy that could occur next season: there is a chance that USC seniors will leave the school without a single championship! :)

2008-02-11 11:03:15
274.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2008-02-11 11:03:53
275.   Bob Timmermann
Thank you for the support, but you should call the unnamed school by its name. This is my battle. And I want to fight it alone.

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