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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Andre Ethier Is a Veteran
2008-02-18 20:20
by Jon Weisman

Andre Ethier ...

  • has 948 plate appearances in the major leagues.

  • has been in the major leagues as long as the team's backbone, Russell Martin.

  • has been through two pennant races and one playoff series.

  • has shown that he can improve as a season progresses by OPSing .826 in the second half of 2007.

  • has seen first-hand what losing can do to a clubhouse.

  • will be a mature 26 years old on April 10.

    If Joe Torre wants a veteran in the outfield next to Andruw Jones and Matt Kemp, then Andre Ethier is ready for duty. He's not a rookie; he's not a kid. This is his prime time.

    I'm concerned with the straw men set up in defense of Juan Pierre. No one that I know of has blamed Pierre singlehandedly for the Dodgers' disappointing finish in 2007 - too much went on with the team for that to be the case. Everyone agrees that he's a nice guy.

    All the criticism of Pierre since he signed with the Dodgers basically boils down to one simple, nothing-personal fact: He's not one of the team's best three outfielders. It's not that he's the devil, or that he isn't a better ballplayer than more than 99 percent of the people in the world, or that he doesn't have skills.

    But Andre Ethier is a nice guy, too. Andre Ethier has skills. And at this time in their careers, Ethier, a rising player with a .279 equivalent average over the past two seasons (that's park-adjusted offensive value, including stolen bases or the lack thereof) and better defense, deserves to start over Pierre, who is over 30 with an EQA below .260 for the past two seasons.

    There shouldn't even be a controversy over this, and the existence of one revolves around one factor - Pierre's contract - in the face of countless others. Between Ethier and Pierre, if you want a stolen base or maybe a bunt, Pierre's your guy. If you want anything else in the game of baseball, Ethier is.

    Is Pierre "a strong asset" and "a championship-type player," as Ned Colletti asserts? Sure, why not. So is Ethier. So what's the point?

    The Pierre debate isn't about Pierre in a vaccum. The Pierre debate is only about whether he deserves to play ahead of the other guy. You can value Pierre's game and still not think he's the team's best left fielder.

    If respect is something to value in baseball, then it's time for Ethier to get his. Ethier has paid his dues; he's been a professional since 2003. He has never done anything to embarrass the Dodgers. He has had his struggles, which makes him pretty much like everyone else. He has pushed through those struggles to become the team's No. 1 option in left. Give Pierre's playing time to Ethier, and he will contribute the championship-type production that people like Colletti trot out in Pierre's defense. He'll do more.

    It's not a philosophical debate; it's not a battle between scouts and statisticians. It's something there for everyone to see: Andre Ethier is a proven veteran, an asset and a readier contributor than Juan Pierre. If that's what the Dodgers want in left field, then they needn't look any further. We don't need the upcoming Spring Training to tell us that. We already know.

  • Comments (188)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-02-18 20:26:27
    1.   Sam DC
    I'm ready to march and I'll get some chowder on to simmer right quick.
    2008-02-18 20:27:15
    2.   Sam DC
    In other news, I was flipping channels just now and as I was cruising past some or other poker I heard a voice that made me stop.

    It seems to be Mr. Kotter doing play by play.

    No visual confirmation yet.

    2008-02-18 20:27:46
    3.   Bob Timmermann
    Manhattan or New England?
    2008-02-18 20:28:26
    4.   Bob Timmermann
    If you lived on the West Coast, you could watch the St. Mary's-Pepperdine game. The Gaels lead by 30 at halftime.
    2008-02-18 20:31:16
    5.   Jon Weisman
    The bottom of the hour brings a make-or-break episode of "Welcome to the Captain."
    2008-02-18 20:32:28
    6.   Jim57
    Super commentary Jon. That pretty much sums it up.
    2008-02-18 20:32:39
    7.   Jon Weisman
    I mean, the girl kissed Bill Haverchuck, so you have to give it a chance.
    2008-02-18 20:33:36
    8.   Bob Timmermann
    I didn't even know there was a show with that name.

    St. Mary's has 82 points with 7 minutes left and is still ahead by 30.

    2008-02-18 20:38:22
    9.   Jon Weisman
    8 -

    2008-02-18 20:40:59
    10.   wireroom
    That is a good summation of the situation. The one thing I will say about Pierre though, is that I would rather see him play for the Dodgers, than ever see a guy like Gary Sheffield play again for the Dodgers. I would rather root and cheer for a Juan Pierre who isn't the best player because he represents what the Dodgers and baseball have always represented to me; hard work, honesty and humility. That is more important than winning to me. Winning comes second.
    2008-02-18 20:44:42
    11.   Eric Stephen
    Did Bill Russell have a good defensive reputation as a SS? I always heard he was average at best, but I was probably lumping him and Davey Lopes together.

    Over on Tom Tango's (aka Tangotiger on BTF) blog, he talks about SS defense, and mentions Russell as one of the top 9 defensive SS since 1957.

    I guess the name Bill Russell is synonymous with great defense.

    2008-02-18 20:45:22
    12.   Bob Timmermann
    I would take Sheffield over Pierre seven days a week and twice on Sundays.
    2008-02-18 20:45:58
    13.   Jon Weisman
    10 - Again, even if that's true, it's really beside the point. Gary Sheffield-type personalities are a distinct minority in the major leagues. It's not an issue in the Dodger outfield.

    I realize you were clearly going off on a tangent, but since a large point of my post is to point out that Pierre's personality positives are not unique, I don't want your comment to distract.

    2008-02-18 20:47:46
    14.   Bob Timmermann
    I don't think any Dodgers fan of the 1970s thought that Bill Russell was a good fielder. He was playing in an era when Dave Concepcion and Larry Bowa were considered the gold standard for good fielding shortstops in the NL.

    Fans didn't think Russell dived for enough balls. In fact, he rarely dived. It could have just been that Russell was always positioned well.

    2008-02-18 20:47:56
    15.   Eric Stephen
    Forgot the link:
    2008-02-18 20:52:34
    16.   Disabled List
    2 Gabe Kaplan's been hosting poker on TV for years. By all accounts, he's a heck of a player, too.
    2008-02-18 20:54:32
    17.   trainwreck
    I have a hard time saying this guy is a good guy and this guy is a jerk, because we only know these guys through a public appearance.
    2008-02-18 20:56:37
    18.   trainwreck
    But, that still does not stop me from calling Jeff Kent a jerk.
    2008-02-18 20:58:49
    19.   overkill94
    Can't Ned save face by saying something to the effect of "We needed a center fielder last year, Juan did just fine, but we realized we needed more power in the line-up and we couldn't pass up Andruw Jones. While we still consider Juan a valuable part of this time, we feel he is best suited as our 4th outfielder considering the outfield talent we have. Frankly, I believe it to be a great problem that we can afford to have such a great player waiting in the wings should anyone go down."

    It probably wouldn't play too well with Pierre, but at least it wouldn't make him look as stupid in the media's eyes.

    2008-02-18 20:58:49
    20.   trainwreck
    Okay, it is pretty easy for me to call them jerks.
    2008-02-18 21:00:05
    21.   Bob Timmermann
    Can't Colletti just ask Tony Reagins for suggestions on what to say to an expensive, displaced center fielder?
    2008-02-18 21:01:26
    22.   bcg60
    I completely agree with everything you said, Jon. It seems like Ethier has to keep proving himself over and over again. He has more than earned the starting position as far as I'm concerned. Nothing against Pierre personally, it's just not acceptable for a starting outfielder to have no homers like he did last season and a little league throwing arm. His skills are more suited to an infielder. No question Ethier is a superior outfielder.
    2008-02-18 21:03:57
    23.   Jon Weisman
    19 - Yes, he can. It's no different than what he's done in the starting rotation with Tomko, Hendrickson and eventually, Loaiza.

    That's why I'm hoping the terms of the discussion change from whether the Dodgers should have signed Pierre - which is ancient history - to whether he simply belongs in the rotation.

    2008-02-18 21:09:11
    24.   Jon Weisman
    Did everyone see the Cambodia baseball article today? It's a good one.

    2008-02-18 21:10:42
    25.   underdog
    " Give Pierre's playing time to Ethier, and he will contribute the championship-type production that people like Colletti trot out in Pierre's defense."

    Was that a subliminal message, a way of sneaking in "Trot"?


    No, but seriously, hear hear!

    And speaking of TV, I just watched the latest episode of The Wire. Man, this season's crazy - probably the most darkly funny of all the show's seasons.

    2008-02-18 21:10:45
    26.   Jon Weisman
    24 - Here's a link to the official site.
    2008-02-18 21:11:57
    27.   Jim57
    I wish Pierre could opt out.
    2008-02-18 21:12:19
    28.   bigcpa
    We don't need the upcoming Spring Training to tell us that.

    Agreed. Although it's quite possible Torre hasn't seen an inning of Andre Ethier. Let's hope he can put on a show before the charter leaves for Beijing.

    2008-02-18 21:13:48
    29.   Eric Stephen
    I would like to subtitle this post "Left Field Not An 'Ethier Or' Situation".
    2008-02-18 21:14:19
    30.   Jon Weisman
    25 - I really liked last night's Wire.
    2008-02-18 21:14:25
    31.   LogikReader
    I'm resigned to the fact that Pierre will at least play for three out of every six games at LF. The good news is that Matt Kemp is locked down at right.

    I figure to stress out much less if I simply accept that JP is part of the team.

    2008-02-18 21:14:53
    32.   underdog
    29 Just wait 'til Kyle Orr makes it to the big club, Hopefully Andre will still be around for all the punderful times that will bring us.

    I commented in previous thread, too, btw, in case anyone's still hanging around there.

    2008-02-18 21:14:54
    33.   ChicagoDodger
    25 And speaking of TV, I just watched the latest episode of The Wire. Man, this season's crazy - probably the most darkly funny of all the show's seasons.

    And only 2 episodes left

    2008-02-18 21:15:44
    34.   underdog
    30 Damn, it was great, so great. I think Bunk is still my favorite character.
    2008-02-18 21:18:30
    35.   Bumsrap
    14 - Bill Russell has said many times that he doesn't dive for balls because he too often hurts himself when he does dive. Bill was a strong armed speedy center fielder that was converted ojt style at the MLB level to a shortstop.

    Pierre sounds more and more like his charactor will be tested on the bench. Wthier is better than Pierre and Ethier isn't that great.

    2008-02-18 21:20:32
    36.   Jim57
    Ethier is actually pretty good. Solid, fundamentally sound player.
    2008-02-18 21:21:33
    37.   Bumsrap
    36 - Agreed
    2008-02-18 21:22:49
    38.   wireroom
    13 Well the point of my post is that I have often read posts that ridicule JP. I am clearly able to see facts/stats and read them and understand the point of the better player being in there. Ethier should be the player in there over Pierre, but I do feel the need to posit my feelings when it comes down to it. Sorry if that seems distracting to your post. And maybe I take baseball as too fanciful and should not care when a guy like Sheffield plays on my team, but paying my money and time over the years makes me have no patience with that kind of person.
    2008-02-18 21:23:54
    39.   Bob Timmermann
    After this Sunday's episode, there are three left. You can watch episode 8 on HBO On Demand.

    There's a lot of stuff happening in that one. Without spoiling anything, I can say that the episode has an araber in it!

    2008-02-18 21:26:19
    40.   Bumsrap
    39 - Was the araber in LF?
    2008-02-18 21:27:21
    41.   Eric Enders
    Just out of curiosity, when you guys talk about "last night's" episode of The Wire, are you talking about the one that actually aired on HBO last night, or the one that became available via HBO on Demand last night? (All the episodes are available On Demand a week before they air.)
    2008-02-18 21:28:33
    42.   Jim57
    Bill Russell didn't make the spectacular plays, but did make all the routine plays. Sure handed, well positioned, and pretty good on the DP. If he got to it, you were out. Much like Cal Ripken without the pop in his bat.
    2008-02-18 21:28:35
    43.   Robert Fiore
    The theory wasn't that Russell was supposed to be a good fielder for a shortstop but that he was supposed to be a good hitter for a shortstop.
    2008-02-18 21:29:19
    44.   jasonungar07
    Great post Jon. Amen. Couldn't agree more. Heck you can argue, based on last season that Ethier deserves to play ahead of Jones.
    2008-02-18 21:30:04
    45.   underdog
    41 I'm talking about the one that aired anew on HBO proper last night. I Tivo'd it (although it was also rerun tonight).

    I loved Richard Belzer's quick cameo, a Homicide callback. "I used to own a bar."

    2008-02-18 21:30:47
    46.   ChicagoDodger
    39 I have already watched the latest episode on HBO on demand. That is where I learned only 2 episodes were left. I knew it was coming, but had hoped there were a few more then 2 left.

    You are correct, "a lot of stuff happening", but then, there are only 2 episodes left to tie up some of the current loose ends. That is, if in fact they intend to do so.

    2008-02-18 21:32:02
    47.   jasonungar07
    Funny Eric, I am a Wire Junkie and proud to say I have never missed an episode and I have on Demand, but I can't get myself to watch it in think there is a brand new episode downstairs for me to watch..but not in HD though is what I tell myself
    2008-02-18 21:32:18
    48.   underdog
    Okay, well then, no spoilers please! For those of us who still have 3 left to go.

    And then I'll learn what the heck an araber is.

    2008-02-18 21:32:33
    49.   Eric Enders
    45 Except if both shows really inhabit the same world, shouldn't he have said, "I used to co-own my bar with that guy sitting over there, Meldrick Lewis"?
    2008-02-18 21:33:33
    50.   MyTummyHurts
    Man crush in full effect after reading Jon's latest...
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-02-18 21:34:29
    51.   Bob Timmermann
    I too am at the 4/5 point of the season for "The Wire." And I'm at the 4/9 part of the season for "In Treatment."

    Although, I don't know if the latter is admirable.

    2008-02-18 21:35:57
    52.   Bob Timmermann
    Except you probably won't know what an araber is from watching Episode 8 of "The Wire." You had to have watched "Homicide: Life on the Street."
    2008-02-18 21:36:23
    53.   Jon Weisman
    38 - I just felt that bringing Sheffield into this particular conversation at this point and time was, if you'll forgive me, out of left field. That's all.
    2008-02-18 21:36:42
    54.   trainwreck
    I really like "In Treatment." But I have resisted watching it early.
    2008-02-18 21:37:07
    55.   ChicagoDodger
    47 I have on Demand, but I can't get myself to watch it in think there is a brand new episode downstairs for me to watch..but not in HD though is what I tell myself

    That's funny. I started watching it ON demand this year, and now never watch on Sunday's.

    48 Okay, well then, no spoilers please! For those of us who still have 3 left to go. And then I'll learn what the heck an araber is.

    Wouldn't dream of spoiling it for you. And, I too do not know what an araber is, and I watched the show. lol

    2008-02-18 21:37:09
    56.   Eric Stephen
    The Dodgers got 2,222 PA from their outfield in 2007. Here's how the bulk of those PA were distributed:

    Pierre - 729 (32.8%)
    Gonzo - 509 (22.9%)
    Ethier - 495 (22.3%)
    Kemp - 301 (13.5%)

    How will the PA be split in 2008? My best guess, barring injury of course, is:

    Andruw - 30%
    Kemp - 25%
    Pierre - 25%
    Ethier - 20%

    2008-02-18 21:37:41
    57.   Jon Weisman
    DirecTV: On Demand :: Bob Timmermann: Arizona
    2008-02-18 21:37:59
    58.   Eric Enders
    48 It won't be a spoiler to tell you what an araber is. It's a guy who sells fruit (or other items) on the street from a cart. I'm not sure whether it's a term specific to Baltimore but it is very familiar to those who've seen Homicide or read David Simon's books.
    2008-02-18 21:38:46
    59.   Bob Timmermann
    Sorry, it's spelled "arabber"

    For those who are curious:

    If you don't want to know, don't click on the link.

    2008-02-18 21:39:35
    60.   Jon Weisman
    Adena Watson. The name still brings chills.
    2008-02-18 21:40:57
    61.   jasonungar07

    In a cast replete with phenomenal characters, Michael K. Williams' portrayal of Omar Little is arguably the most unforgettable on HBO's critically lauded series The Wire.

    During a conversation at the Czar Entertainment offices in Manhattan, Williams explores Omar's psyche, analyzes his own approach to playing the part, and tells the stories behind some of the series' most remarkable moments. Clearly a fan himself, the rising actor also offers valuable insight into The Wire's depiction of the streets of Baltimore, and the importance of exposing other criminal worlds that have an impact on the inner city drug trade.

    2008-02-18 21:43:54
    62.   Eric Enders
    How many Homicide regulars have now appeared on The Wire? Off the top of my head there's...

    Clark Johnson
    Peter Gerety
    Callie Thorne
    Erik Todd Dellums
    Toni Lewis
    Clayton LeBouef
    Richard Belzer

    2008-02-18 21:44:21
    63.   wireroom
    53 I think maybe left field resonates with me and I brought up Sheff because he played there. No worries, I actually appreciated the post because it states the facts in evidence.
    2008-02-18 21:44:45
    64.   underdog
    Well, I watched Homicide religiously, including all of season four on DVD recently, and still have no idea what an arabber is (or don't recall) and won't click on any spoiling link that tells me either. Anyway, I'd rather talk about The Wire than Juan Pierre, personally, though I'll try to come up with something Dodger related to pop in here soon.
    2008-02-18 21:46:37
    65.   Eric Enders
    56 I am very much hoping Delwyn Young will get at least 1%.
    2008-02-18 21:47:40
    66.   ChicagoDodger
    The Wire is one of the best series on television ever. Of course, in my own humble opinion. I like the stories and the acting much better then say the Sopranos, and I liked the Sopranos...alot.

    I realize this is supposed to be a thread about Etheir/Pierre, but I believe Jon has written what many of us have all agreed to at some point or another the past few months, and that is simply Ethier is one of the Dodgers top 3 outfielders, and Pierre is not.

    2008-02-18 21:48:10
    67.   underdog
    62 I think that about covers it but man, I wish someone would find Kyle Secor some work! The guy's such a great actor.
    2008-02-18 21:48:29
    68.   Jon Weisman
    62 - I usually find myself counting "Oz" actors on the Wire too.
    2008-02-18 21:49:06
    69.   Bob Timmermann
    I don't know how you could say you watched "Homicide" religiously and didn't know what an arabber was.

    That is akin to saying you follow the Dodgers religiously and don't know who Takashi Saito is.

    2008-02-18 21:51:03
    70.   RELX
    While the JP situation is of concern this year, he is signed for three more years past this season, so this is not a one-year problem, ala Luis Gonzalez. At some point, the Dodgers have to either commit to Pierre as a starter for the duration of his contract, or else deal him. No way is he going to spend three years as a bench player with his salary.
    2008-02-18 21:51:10
    71.   Eric Stephen
    I agree with you. For some reason I didn't leave room for the other OFers. In 2007 for instance, there were 188 PA (8.5%) that went to the others
    2008-02-18 21:51:12
    72.   ChicagoDodger

    I vote:

    Andruw - 33%
    Kemp - 25%
    Ethier - 25%
    Young- 12%
    Pierre- 5%

    2008-02-18 21:51:48
    73.   jasonungar07
    One time, in band

    But about 10 years ago I went to sales training in Baltimore for two weeks. Got to see The Sox play the O's (Mo Vaghhn hit two rockets over my head and into the building behind the stadium- I was standing an inch away from the right field foul pole)and had alot of fun with a big group of young people from across the country who were my age.

    We went out the warf area to drink and have fun, on the way home we got lost and 5 minuets away from a nice decent place was Hell. I swear what they show on the Wire regarding the streets of Baltimore is true. I was really scarred. Seriously. I am sure it's no different that LA, or East Oakland and many other places I have been..but you sorta have to go there. This was so close to places that you would bring grandma and the kids to. I was shocked.

    2008-02-18 21:51:57
    74.   Disabled List
    62 I had the pleasure of meeting Erik Todd Dellums when he was a guest on a talk show I used to work on. Couldn't have been a nicer guy. I told him how much I loved Homicide, and we spent an hour talking about the show. I was so impressed with how nice he was, that it was actually jarring to go back and see those old Homicide episodes where he played such a chilling bad guy.
    2008-02-18 21:52:58
    75.   Eric Enders
    Well, the main arabber episode in Homicide was during the little-seen Season One, the fifth episode out of 122. So I could see how somebody could have missed it.

    Of course, it was also arguably the best episode out of the 122, thanks to Moses Gunn. It was probably either that one or the one where Vincent D'Onofrio gets hit by a subway train.

    2008-02-18 21:57:56
    76.   Jon Weisman
    75 - I like that D'Onofrio episode, but I doubt it's in the Homicide top five. Moses Gunn is supreme.

    But you and Bob are both right. Few people saw the greatest episode of Homicide, but can you be a religious viewer of the show and not have "arabber" at least ring a bell?

    2008-02-18 21:59:48
    77.   Bob Timmermann
    The arabber - Obscure, yet memorable "Homicide" character.
    2008-02-18 22:02:17
    78.   Marty
    Baltimore does have some of the worst slums I've ever seen. And yes, the neighborhood changes dramatically by the block. But I like the city for some reason. I was very close to taking a job there 10 years ago. I'll also be there for a week this May.
    2008-02-18 22:02:45
    79.   Bob Timmermann
    Moses Gunn's final credit in IMDB before he passed away was his turn as the arabber, Risley Tucker.

    Moses Gunn was born exactly six days before my mom was in the same city, St. Louis, and he passed away a little over four months after my mom passed away too.

    2008-02-18 22:03:17
    80.   Jon Weisman
    77 - !
    2008-02-18 22:08:07
    81.   jasonungar07
    I liked it alot as well, which is what added to my shock I guess. Being a group of drunk white kids in a rental mini van didn't reduce the tension..
    2008-02-18 22:14:14
    82.   underdog
    Ah, crap, now I remember what arabber is. Cripes, I hope that doesn't spoil the next episode!

    And I bet Bubbles ends up sandwiched in between a subway train, too! Darn you, darn you all to heck!

    2008-02-18 22:14:50
    83.   Joe Pierre
    All I can say is (Good Bye Ethier)lol. Man you just gave one of the best scouting reports. Why don't you just sent it out to Colletti & Co. All kidding aside. This is quite a delimiter. How will ths unfold? This could be the most interesting episode in sports. As long as "my name sake" is in LF, Ethier will be in limbo. How much will he take? How long can he take it?
    2008-02-18 22:15:52
    84.   Bob Timmermann
    The presence of an arabber won't make much of a difference. It's mainly just a shout out to "Homicide."
    2008-02-18 22:17:11
    85.   underdog
    Kyle Secor's apparently been in "Women's Murder Club," which, surprisingly, I haven't yet watched, and I'd forgotten he was in a Veronica Mars episode I did see (and a few others I'd missed), plus a CSI here, a Without a Trace there, not to mention "Commander in Chief". But gosh, he needs to be in something really good again.
    2008-02-18 22:17:49
    86.   underdog
    84 Ah hah! Richard Belzer's the homeless serial killer, isn't he? I knew it.
    2008-02-18 22:19:35
    87.   underdog
    Poor Adena Watson.
    2008-02-18 22:21:27
    88.   Bob Timmermann
    "Women's Murder Club" was really, really, really bad when I saw it.

    Kyle Secor did have a pretty sizeable role in "Veronica Mars." He seems to get a lot of work.

    2008-02-18 22:21:51
    89.   Jon Weisman
    Kyle Secor was pretty critical to Veronica Mars season one.
    2008-02-18 22:25:19
    90.   underdog
    I've only seen two episodes of Veronica Mars ever, but maybe I'll go back and rent season one just to see Secor in action. Anyone ever see him in an underrated little neo noir called "Delusion"? He was great in that, if a bit hammy.
    2008-02-18 22:27:46
    91.   Frip
    Jon: "It's not a philosophical debate; it's not a battle between scouts and statisticians. It's something there for everyone to see: Andre Ethier is a proven veteran, an asset and a readier contributor than Juan Pierre. If that's what the Dodgers want in left field, then they needn't look any further. We don't need the upcoming Spring Training to tell us that. We already know."

    No nonsense. Succinct. Direct. And right.

    2008-02-18 22:30:01
    92.   natepurcell
    Hey, where was that link to the Dodgers' international signings. thanks.
    2008-02-18 22:42:13
    93.   Eric Enders
    92 Scroll down to the very end. Not much info there though.
    2008-02-18 22:42:33
    94.   Eric Enders
    Would help if I'd included this:
    2008-02-18 22:46:35
    95.   natepurcell
    thanks eric.
    2008-02-18 22:51:21
    96.   natepurcell
    interesting that Freddy Quintero got 250k from the dodgers considering he is already 20 years old.
    2008-02-18 23:06:11
    97.   berkowit28
    77 That sounds a bit like a recent hilarious NPR "This American Life" episode, spotting "perverse, but often baffling"... (Act 4)

    2008-02-18 23:09:06
    98.   Eric Stephen
    I would like to repeat my plea for Dodger Thoughts and True Blue L.A. readers to send me their 2008 projections for individual Dodgers.

    So far I have 15 full offensive projections (only got Russell Martin from Bluebleeder), and I'd like to get as many as possible. My goal is to see if -- as a community -- we can project our team just as well as some of the modeling systems out there (Zips, CHONE, PECOTA, etc).

    I would like predictions of BA/OBP/SLG for the 10 "regulars" on offense, and ERA/WHIP for as many pitchers as you deem necessary (ideally the 5-7 starters and 4-5 top relievers).

    Please post any entries here in the comments, or over at True Blue LA -- -- and I will take any and all entries posted by midnight Friday night (Feb 22).


    2008-02-18 23:14:38
    99.   KennKid
    agree, Ethier is a solid player and ought to get about the same number of PA's as last year...If Furcal's ankle is healed (unintended pun) fully, then perhaps Pierre's speed will not be needed as much at the top of the lineup...maybe some of Pierre's PA's can go to Kemp/Either

    but still, having two rabbits at the top of the lineup is appealing, and ought to result in more fastballs for the 3, 4, 5 hitters in the lineup...i guess it depends upon how well Jones, Martin, Kent will handle breaking pitches this year--i thought last year Jones looked pretty bad against curves

    2008-02-18 23:18:01
    100.   Dodgers49
    This is off topic but there are so many fans of the Los Angeles Times on this site I thought I'd post it anyway:

    For Publisher in Los Angeles, Cuts and Worse

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2008-02-18 23:25:57
    101.   Eric Stephen
    but still, having two rabbits at the top of the lineup is appealing, and ought to result in more fastballs for the 3, 4, 5 hitters in the lineup

    Last year on John Dewan's "stat of the week" on Acta Sports, there was a study of this, and it was found that while more fastballs are thrown with a SB threat on 1st, the difference is kind of small.

    Also, just anecdotally, I would think some of the gain from getting more fastballs to hit would be offset by getting distracted by the moving runner.

    2008-02-18 23:52:28
    102.   Bob Timmermann
    Job opening in Cuba. Fidel Castro has announced his retirement.
    2008-02-19 00:14:20
    103.   Xeifrank
    What are we looking at in terms of win totals between making Ethier or Pierre a starter? and LaRoche vs Nomar? I'd say about 3 wins. Enough to make a big difference in the standings. So, when people ask if managers do make a difference, in the Dodgers case this year it will. Chances are, barring injuries or trades, Torre will split the difference.

    vr, Xei

    2008-02-19 05:59:50
    104.   Ken Noe
    Let's not forget that Ethier too was a NedCo acquisition. Honestly, the more I read from JP in the morning papers, the more I'm convinced that it's Ethier's job if he can go out and win it. I don't know how else to view JP's essential theme that he's experienced a personal affront to his PVLness. And clearly JP's going to demand a trade if he's unhappy, a trade perhaps that involves renegotiation downward if he's unhappy enough.
    2008-02-19 06:32:17
    105.   ET90210
    Pierre would waive his no-trade clause if Ethier wins the starting job, it seems. Even with the Dodgers eating say 35% of the contract (more?), what could they expect in return?

    2008-02-19 07:14:28
    106.   Ken Noe
    105 They could get very little right now, I suspect, but perhaps closer to the trading deadline a contender would be interested. Pray that the White Sox are in it in late July.
    2008-02-19 08:06:08
    107.   hotblackdesiato
    MLBTR suggests the Reds as a destination for Pierre. Does Dusty love speedy character guys? He's rumored to be after Lofton -- wouldn't he rather have someone 10 years younger and signed long-term?

    Surely the Dodgers can afford to eat 1/3-1/2 of his contract. This is a situation that has to be rectified. Andruw Jones is here for two years and is already talking about wanting an extension. Kemp and Ethier are still league minimum guys. Pierre is here for four years. This isn't a situation that goes away after next season. I don't see any solution that doesn't involve trading one of the heads on the Piethier monster.

    2008-02-19 08:23:24
    108.   regfairfield
    107 They already have Ryan Freel. Maybe next year they'd think about it since Jay Bruce is their only outfield prospect and they lose Dunn and Griffey, but there's no reason to get Pierre, especially when they're going to call Bruce up this year.
    2008-02-19 08:23:36
    109.   cargill06
    my question is if after a few months it's a 60% etheir 40% pierre split do you think he is the type of guy that would demand a trade? i believe so, he's been a starter his whole career and is still only 30 and his numbers have stayed virtually the same. in his eyes he is a starter and his skills haven't diminished, i believe there is a good chance this could work itself out
    2008-02-19 08:29:23
    110.   cargill06
    105 pierre doesn't have a no trade clause. what he has is he gives coletti a list of 5 teams and it blocks him being traded to those 5 teams.
    2008-02-19 08:32:40
    111.   Kevin Lewis

    This is an amazing post, and it addresses the situation perfectly. I will show it to anyone who comes in my office today!

    2008-02-19 08:36:18
    112.   Gen3Blue
    I was expecting Bob to pop up with a response to Jasons 73 that went something like "Does it show or do your clothes hide it?".
    This shows Bob has tasteful restrain.
    Hmmm, what does it say about me--
    2008-02-19 08:39:30
    113.   regfairfield
    Heck forget Ryan Freel, the Reds have Norris Hopper (who somehow has a career .332/.379/.396 line), why would they need Juan Pierre?
    2008-02-19 08:41:44
    114.   kinbote
    Did somebody say Juan Pierre trade rumor? [returns to cave]
    2008-02-19 08:52:28
    115.   JoeyP
    I'm resigned to the fact that Pierre will at least play for three out of every six games at LF. The good news is that Matt Kemp is locked down at right

    I'm not as bullish on Matt Kemp's job security. I think he'll be 1 slump away (at least this year) from getting platooned with Ethier. I hope its not the case, but I really doubt Torre will be any different than other managers.

    2008-02-19 08:53:37
    116.   screwballin
    ...if you want a stolen base or maybe a bunt, Pierre's your guy.

    I'm probably reading too much into the "maybe" above, but to me this is one of my main beefs with JP: For a player who's supposed to excel at the "little things," too often he doesn't. He seemed to miss way too many bunt attempts, for one. He doesn't excel at base-stealing either, considering how often he gets caught.

    If he had mastered "small ball," he would be easier to stomach. But the "small ball" approach is dubious enough when it works perfectly; when it results in a missed bunt or a caught stealing, it's pretty disastrous.

    So, if you need a ground ball to advance the runner, JP can give you that. No one is better at hitting a ground ball. Other than that ....

    2008-02-19 09:01:43
    117.   cargill06
    He doesn't excel at base-stealing either, considering how often he gets caught.

    he's had some previous bad seasons, but 81% last year was awesome considering how everyone knows that he is stealing.

    2008-02-19 09:02:30
    118.   natepurcell

    Yea, that's called a partial no trade clause.

    2008-02-19 09:04:04
    119.   OhioBlues12
    113 - Both Freel and Hopper are stretched a bit as starters. Freel remains much better suited as a super-utility type, especially since he plays with such abandon that he gets more banged up than normal during the season. Not saying it is a possibility, but I could see where the Reds would be interested. They will probably lose Griffey and Dunn at season's end; Dunn maybe even before that if they can find a taker.
    2008-02-19 09:04:43
    120.   cargill06
    118 ya true, but when someone says, "he has a no-trade clause." most people assume that means he his final say.
    2008-02-19 09:06:58
    121.   cargill06
    117 ok i made that comment without looking up the numbers, i guess 81% is about average for guys that steal a lot of bases.
    2008-02-19 09:07:27
    122.   regfairfield
    Juan Pierre actually lead the league in total baserunning last year, almost 11 runs to his total value. He was also by far the worst bunter in the league, getting a hit only 27% of the time that he bunted.
    2008-02-19 09:07:46
    123.   StolenMonkey86
    102 - That's a rule 5 violation waiting to happen. Must resist . . .
    2008-02-19 09:09:50
    124.   regfairfield
    121 No, 81% is really good, the stolen bases actually mean something then. Usually he's around 70-75 percent which makes it all pretty much worthless.
    2008-02-19 09:14:21
    125.   cargill06
    124 last year the 8 guys with 40+ steals, reyes 79%, pierre 81%, h. rameriez 78%, byrnes 88%, roberts 88%, crawford 83%, rollins 87%, figgins 77%.
    2008-02-19 09:14:56
    126.   screwballin
    98 I figure Eric needs a few blind guesses to balance out the field, so here goes:

    Furcal .290/.345/.405
    Martin .305/.370/.468
    Loney .315/.355/.492
    Kemp .310/.360/.535
    Kent .289/.365/.478
    Jones .263/.340/.510
    LaRoche .260/.355/.488
    Pierre .277/.308/.322
    Ethier .299/.370/.466
    Nomar .289/.325/.412

    Bills 3.25/1.25
    Penny 3.45/1.30
    Lowe 3.90/1.27
    Kuroda 4.55/1.40
    Schmidt 4.70/1.45

    Saito 2.75/1.05
    Broxton 2.25/1.10
    Proctor 4.15/1.35
    Beimel 3.20/1.28

    2008-02-19 09:15:18
    127.   regfairfield
    124 Doesn't matter if it's average for guys that steal a lot, it means he's helping the cause.
    2008-02-19 09:18:13
    128.   screwballin
    He was also by far the worst bunter in the league, getting a hit only 27% of the time that he bunted.

    Of course, sometimes he bunts so badly it ends up a double. So that counts for something.

    2008-02-19 09:29:31
    129.   natepurcell
    my lineup guesses

    Furcal .292/.360/.415
    Martin .295/.370/.462
    Loney .308/.362/.479
    Kemp .292/.343/.499
    Kent .275/.362/465
    Jones .265/.339/.515
    LaRoche .267/.345/.459
    Pierre .290/.329/.333
    Ethier .303/.368/.476
    Nomar .276/.328/.425

    2008-02-19 09:32:11
    130.   OhioBlues12
    The frustrating part for me regarding Pierre is that he doesn't seem to use his skills optimally. I seem to remember Brett Butler being great at showing bunt to draw in the 3B and then either dump a pitch over his head or ground it hard between 3B and SS. Pierre would be much more dangerous if he tried that approach more often.
    2008-02-19 09:33:10
    131.   screwballin
    127 Yeah, I was basing that on his 3-year average of 71%. Can't complain about 81%, if he can keep it up.
    2008-02-19 09:41:24
    132.   bhsportsguy
    Maybe they should give lie detector tests to these guys.

    "It was bad when I played last year like that," the switch-hitting Furcal said.

    "Hitting right-handed, I felt better. But left-handed, I couldn't stand on my ankle. But I didn't say anything because I wanted to keep playing."

    "After the season, I got a lot of treatment before I started playing (in the Dominican Winter League), and that made me feel so good."

    2008-02-19 09:53:33
    133.   LAT
    First, let me say I lean toward Ethier as the prefered LF. With that out of the way, I am not against a little competition to earn the spot. If Ethier has a terrible spring and JP has improved his power or arm then let's go with JP. Of course, the fear is that Ethier out-springs JP and Joe gives the job to JP anyway. (If that happens its Joe's fault not JP's)

    Also, as Ned has said, when was the last time a team didn't need a fourth OF over the course of a 162 games. Granted, Young or even Repko may be a better alternitive but at some point we will need a fourth OF and there are worse alternatives than JP.

    But Jon's post was not really about JP. JP is what he is. Its about Joe and Ned playing the better player-not the bigger contract. But if that player turns out to be someone other than Ethier (which I doubt) we should be prepared to live with it.

    2008-02-19 09:57:21
    134.   Kevin Lewis
    I would be a little worried if I was a Cardinals fan this year. Wouldn't you want Pujols to have the surgery, take some time, and come back strong? I mean, they are going to stink this year anyway...might as well let the guy rest up.
    2008-02-19 09:58:24
    135.   JoeyP
    Here are mine:

    Furcal .275/.340/.415
    Martin .290/.375/.440
    Loney .280/.340/.440
    Kemp .260/.330/.490
    Kent .260/.350/450
    Jones .250/.320/.480
    LaRoche .265/.365/.415
    Pierre .290/.330/.340
    Ethier .275/.335/.435
    Nomar .275/.330/.415

    2008-02-19 10:00:22
    136.   Axim
    132 When he says that hitting right handed he felt better, but when hitting lefthanded he couldn't stand on his ankle, why not just bat right handed all the time then?

    I have never understood why some switch hitters will continue to switch hit, when it is obvious they are better from one side then the other.

    2008-02-19 10:03:45
    137.   Bob Timmermann
    The usual response given by switch hitters is that they have done it so long that they don't think they can hit breaking pitches at all when they are batting on the "wrong" side.

    The difference could very well be mental, rather than physical.

    There have been switch hitters who have given up on the idea, such as JT Snow.

    2008-02-19 10:06:53
    138.   silverwidow
    From Diamond Leung:

    Torre on Pierre

    He grinds out at-bats and can steal bases.

    Certainly you'd like everyone to have a .400 on-base percentage, but that's not always the case.

    He's a nuisance.

    We want quality at-bats.

    2008-02-19 10:08:02
    139.   jasonungar07
    33 It seems as if JP feels he should play the majority of the time or he wants to be traded. Ethier is happy to be here and can play 3 of spots. Seems like an easy choice for me....
    2008-02-19 10:09:26
    140.   jasonungar07
    138 Shouldn't Torre wait for spring training to know that stuff? lol
    2008-02-19 10:11:45
    141.   old dodger fan
    When I read the comments about Furcal I looked up his splits from last year and sure enough his OPS was .078 better batting RH. That seems significant.
    Then I noticed his OPS was .157 better at home vs the road (.765 vs .608). That really surprised me. Any ideas on why?
    2008-02-19 10:12:46
    142.   screwballin
    136 And batting lefty gets you to 1b a little quicker, so I can see not wanting to give that up.

    It's the guys who consistently hit poorly from the right side who mystify me.

    2008-02-19 10:13:50
    143.   regfairfield
    134 They're going to stink for the next few years, so they can take comfort in that.
    2008-02-19 10:24:06
    144.   cargill06
    i'm quite surprised how everyone thinks laroche's obp% is going to be .100 points higher than his BA i'd love it, but considering he's never done it in the minors i think it may be asking a little much for his 1st year in the majors to do that. there's no doubt if he establishes himself as a feared hitter at some point in his career it is almost a given he will be right around that every year.
    2008-02-19 10:24:50
    145.   Kevin Lewis

    My brother is out in St. Louis, so he has prepared himself for a few really bad years. I think it can be a great position to be in...just bring up your young talent and let them get some great experience without a ton of pressure, and who knows, they might do well.

    Oh, and it looks like the Joe Beimel fan might go to Vero!

    2008-02-19 10:25:16
    146.   cargill06
    144 let me rephase how everyone thinks laroche's obp% is going to be .100 points higher than his BA

    it should say the few projections i've looked at today.

    2008-02-19 10:27:39
    147.   regfairfield
    145 Problem is that their young talent consists of two guys and one of them got blocked by Yadier Molina. They really need to start grabbing all the guys who run out of options.
    2008-02-19 10:36:02
    148.   Kevin Lewis

    Good point. I imagine it will be easy to find some cheap seats on ebay this year.

    2008-02-19 10:39:52
    149.   kinbote
    Here's perhaps a fruitful exercise: Can anyone find the existing contracts that most closely match the $36.5m we owe Pierre. Frighteningly, the first name that comes to mind is Igawa. I can't see any way we dump Pierre unless it's a straight salary swap.
    2008-02-19 10:41:07
    150.   natepurcell
    i'm quite surprised how everyone thinks laroche's obp% is going to be .100 points higher than his BA i'd love it, but considering he's never done it in the minors i think it may be asking a little much for his 1st year in the majors to do that.

    career minor league ISOd- 81

    2007- 90
    2006 AA- 110
    2006 AAA- 78
    2005 AA- 94

    He's been right around there.

    My guess for 2008 is an ISOd of 78 or so.

    Looking back, that is probably a tad high but in his prime, Laroche should be between 80-100 annually.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2008-02-19 10:45:15
    151.   regfairfield
    149 Igawa is only on the hook for 16 million. I honestly thought Scott Rolen for Pierre and something insignifigant was totally fair, but apparently the Blue Jays disagreed. I also liked Nate's suggesstion of Jose Contrares.

    Maybe Jason Giambi, but that's only 26 million.

    2008-02-19 10:45:19
    152.   El Lay Dave
    144 "... considering he's never done it in the minors ..."

    The last two years in the minors, LaRoche's OBP has been .090 ('07) and .095 ('06) higher than his BA. That's pretty close to .100, though.

    2008-02-19 10:46:19
    153.   El Lay Dave
    149 The Dodgers have sent cash with bad contracts before; they'd do it again if they thought it was what was needed to be done.
    2008-02-19 10:47:17
    154.   bhsportsguy
    Now sliding glass doors are a safety hazard.

    FREAK INJURY FOR PENCE (10:52 a.m. ET)
    Right fielder Hunter Pence crashed through a sliding glass door in the bathroom of his spring training home, leaving him with multiple cuts that will sideline him for a week.

    Pence spent the night in an emergency room after the incident Monday evening. He arrived at camp Tuesday with a gash on his right index finger and a brace on his left knee.

    "It's pretty silly that this kind of a freak accident happened," Pence said.

    Pence said he was in a hot tub at the home where he's staying and got out to use the bathroom. He had left the door open, but didn't noticed that a friend had just closed it. He hit it with his shoulder, leg and head and it shattered.

    "Having seen him run and hit two days ago, I don't anticipate that missing a week in February is going to affect him at all come March 31st in San Diego," general manager Ed Wade told

    2008-02-19 10:48:26
    155.   Jon Weisman
    There's no reason to dump Pierre to make him happy. If he's half the good citizen everyone claims he is, he should accept his role as the fourth outfielder. He would get some playing time as a reserve and help this team.

    Why should the Dodgers have to worry about coddling him? I thought that's what you did with difficult players.

    2008-02-19 10:53:07
    156.   old dodger fan
    144 My projection (guess) for LaRoche which was posted last week was 280/340/500. Nomar's was 290/350/450
    2008-02-19 10:55:48
    157.   old dodger fan
    155 Frankly I like Young as a 4th OFer better than JP.
    I like JP for the 10 or so games a year Jones rests and for pinch running assignment now and then. He is a great 4th OF if one of the first 4 goes on the DL.
    2008-02-19 11:02:57
    158.   silverwidow
    156 Too low on the OBP, too high on the SLG for Andy.
    2008-02-19 11:08:18
    159.   Disabled List
    155 There's no reason to dump Pierre to make him happy. If he's half the good citizen everyone claims he is, he should accept his role as the fourth outfielder.

    Couldn't agree more. This is ultimately going to fall to Torre's feet. He has a reputation as a player's manager. We'll see how he handles it; if he sits Pierre for a game or two at the outset, or if he jumps through all kinds of hoops to keep the consecutive games played streak alive.

    2008-02-19 11:08:38
    160.   cargill06
    150 you just posted the same exact thing as i posted in 144
    2008-02-19 11:09:21
    161.   Eric Stephen
    Thanks to everyone who has sent in projections today. The more the merrier!

    For some reason, I'm immediately skeptical of the Hunter Pence story in 154 . It screams to me of "I was washing my truck" or "I hurt my hand when I dropped a glass in my hotel room". I don't have any reason not to take Pence at his word though, and I feel bad for my immediate mental dismissal of his story.

    2008-02-19 11:11:43
    162.   LogikReader
    In other baseball news:

    Dave Niehaus (Mariners Broadcaster) elected to the Hall of Fame

    2008-02-19 11:12:06
    163.   alex 7
    Hunter was running to the bathroom and hit it? Possible I guess. But yeah, you have to be running pretty fast (on wet feet?) to run into a sliding glass door and have it shatter.
    2008-02-19 11:13:37
    164.   LogikReader

    That is a very cool story. I enjoyed his work on M's games last year (Extra Innings). I did not know that he had some minor stints with the Dodgers and UCLA. In addition he was Dick Enberg's partner for Angels broadcasts for a good seven years.

    2008-02-19 11:16:11
    165.   regfairfield
    161 If it wasn't true, I'd love to know what he was doing that made him look like he got jacked by a sliding glass door.

    Also, my prediction of .280/.360/.460 is clearly the best and most accurate one :).

    2008-02-19 11:16:26
    166.   Eric Stephen
    I like Niehaus too. I kind of like his "Get out the rye bread and the mustard grandma! It's Grand Salami time!!!" call, even if it is a bit hokey.
    2008-02-19 11:16:59
    167.   Jon Weisman
    In seventh grade, Alex Olmedo (son of the former tennis champ) was running to (or maybe it was from) assembly and put his hand through a glass window pane in a door. It was a mess.
    2008-02-19 11:18:15
    168.   kngoworld
    I believe some people here will enjoy watching video #6 on this page:

    I thought it was cool.

    2008-02-19 11:18:42
    169.   Eric Stephen
    Too bad the injury to Hunter Pence didn't affect his contract, or else we could have seen the awesome headline:

    "Sick Pence None The Richer"

    2008-02-19 11:21:30
    170.   cargill06
    168 it appears that he is out, that made me sad.
    2008-02-19 11:24:24
    171.   Bob Timmermann
    Dave Niehaus was not elected to the Hall of Fame. He received the Ford C. Frick Award.

    It's an entirely different thing all together.

    2008-02-19 11:27:31
    172.   silverwidow
    168 The Show looks so FANTASTIC. Too bad I'm stuck with an Xbox 360 and can't get that game...
    2008-02-19 11:29:04
    173.   Eric Stephen
    Video Furcal got a horrible jump on that pitch!
    2008-02-19 11:30:13
    174.   regfairfield
    I know the answer to this will be no, but can you actually walk in that game?
    2008-02-19 11:30:33
    175.   cargill06
    i know there is probably nothing new to report, but has anyone heard anything about schmidt's bullpen session today? i know he was supposed to throw today, just not sure when.
    2008-02-19 11:34:21
    176.   kngoworld
    172 I love the new features of the career mode, The Show, where you have to learn to read signs and position yourself in the field for big plays. Video #4 explains in more details. Thanks to this game I am really considering buying the PS3. This game and the announcement that Toshiba is waiving the white flag and ending production of the HD DVD line. Everyone can feel safe about getting their Blu-Ray players now.
    2008-02-19 11:37:16
    177.   bhsportsguy
    171 Vin Scully is a Hall of Famer!

    At least that is how he is introduced in every story about him.

    2008-02-19 11:41:14
    178.   Jon Weisman
    168 - Dramatic ... but is the actual video game that slow?
    2008-02-19 11:47:50
    179.   MC Safety
    132 Those are fighting words if my name is Chin Lung Hu or Tony Abreu.
    2008-02-19 11:48:05
    180.   LogikReader

    Oooooooooooooops. Sorry guys. Bob is right.

    2008-02-19 11:49:07
    181.   Eric Stephen
    Bob is right

    There should be a built-in macro for that on Baseball Toaster.

    2008-02-19 11:49:37
    182.   Bob Timmermann
    If you're a SABR member and you say a broadcaster or writer is a member of the Hall of Fame, a strike team is dispatched to your home to remind you not to say that.

    Some people think the organization could spend its money more wisely, but that's what the dues pay for.

    2008-02-19 11:52:05
    183.   bhsportsguy
    182 Oh oh, I see a black van rolling down the block.

    Do we (SABR) debate on whether or not guys named by the Veteran's Committee are members of the Hall of Fame too?

    2008-02-19 11:56:56
    184.   LogikReader

    That's an awesome video clip. In fact that whole page is very good. It makes me want to go buy the game.

    The guy who narrates the video must be Matt Vasgersian. It also notes that the "broadcast team" for the game will be Matt, Rex Hudler, and Dave Campbell.

    Fortunately, you can turn the announcers "off".

    2008-02-19 12:05:43
    185.   Bob Timmermann
    Do we (SABR) debate on whether or not guys named by the Veteran's Committee are members of the Hall of Fame too?

    Only on days that end in "y".

    2008-02-19 12:14:48
    186.   Kevin Lewis
    New to my hate list:


    2008-02-19 12:24:05
    187.   Eric Enders
    169 was awesome.

    Kevin, welcome to the DHL-hating club, which is getting big enough that we probably need membership cards soon. What did they do? Miss a pickup? Hide the package in some random place in your yard where you'd never find it? Deliver it to the right number except on the wrong street? Leave it with your grumpy neighbor when you weren't home and not tell you about it? Or simply forget to deliver it at all? All of the above and more have happened to me. Unfortunately, they are the "Official Express Delivery and Logistics Provider" of my main client, so I end up having to use them a lot.

    2008-02-19 12:31:56
    188.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top.

    Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.