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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Jeff Kent Day
2008-02-20 07:29
by Jon Weisman

Perhaps you've noticed by now that, based on when Dodgers give their first Spring Training interviews of the year to the press, there are days, days in which every beat writer's daily report focuses on the same person. There was Joe Torre Day, and Jason Schmidt Day, and Juan Pierre Day, and so on.

Today will be Jeff Kent Day. He has arrived at Dodgertown, and here's the first sampling of what he had to say, from Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise:

"I've just been reading everything on the Internet and the magazines, and you can't believe half of everything you read. A lot of good talk.

"Gentlemen, my frustrations don't lie with anybody. They lie with wins and losses. ..."

The rest continues at Leung's blog. Updates from the other beat writers sure to come, though perhaps there isn't much more to add. In fact, if everyone (including me) agreed to put last year's controversy to rest, that would be a good sign for 2008. Tony Jackson of the Daily News might be going that route, leading his morning blog post with Kent but focusing less on him than Joe Beimel's hair and Internet groupie Troy from West Virginia, as well as Jason Repko's impending fatherhood. (I feel bad for Repko that he has to focus on fighting for a job during those first few weeks of parenting.)

* * *

In three of six months last season, the Dodgers had an on-base percentage of below .300 in the leadoff spot. (May and July were much better.) Just one of the many things you can find out from the new batting-order outcomes tool at

Comments (115)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-02-20 07:48:08
1.   Disabled List
Excerpt from BPro's spring training preview, courtesy of

Job battle to track: There are four outfielders for three spots, and it's excruciatingly clear to anyone familiar with baseball who ranks fourth among them. However, the likelihood that the Dodgers relegate Juan Pierre to a bench role is nil. Every PA he takes from Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier is a mistake.

One move to make: Trading Pierre for whatever he'll bring back, even if it means eating $10-15 million. Pierre would actually be a decent extra outfielder; it's just not likely that the Dodgers would do that, or that he would be all that happy in the role. Having Pierre around just increases the chance that he'll take time away from better players. There are people who don't like it when we say players aren't good, and saying this about a known nice guy like Pierre tends to fire up the opponents of performance analysis. Playing him regularly on a corner is just baseball malpractice, however, and the Dodgers have to avoid that temptation.

Ned Colletti has squandered a fair amount of scouting director Logan White's work in his time as the Dodgers' GM, but he avoided doing so this winter. Thanks to that, he heads into the spring with his best team, and with the best chance of having that team play. There remains the need to push Pierre and Nomar Garciaparra into supporting roles, the latter so that OBP machine Andy LaRoche can take over at third base. The "right" Dodger lineup can win 94 games and the division. How Joe Torre apportions playing time in a situation not dissimilar to the 1996 Yankees will determine whether the Dodgers fulfill their potential.

2008-02-20 08:07:34
2.   Ken Noe
Would someone remind me what the '96 Yankees reference means?
2008-02-20 08:12:03
3.   Aug C
Related to Kent in a way, according to Dylan Hernandez, Furcal wants to work out an extension, preferably ironed out before the season starts. It seems to me that being willing to negotiate after a pretty bad year is a sign of good faith.

But do people want the Dodgers to extend Furcal at this juncture? I personally wouldn't mind, as I am not confident that both Hu and Abreu will turn out to be better than average middle infielders, although I'm pretty sure at least one of them will be.

2008-02-20 08:46:06
4.   Jim57
I hope Furcal realizes that he is not going to get a contract extension for 14M a year.
2008-02-20 08:47:32
5.   paranoidandroid
3 With a young team emerging, I think keeping a veteran who leads by example makes sense. I'd be very happy to lock up Raffy for another three years as long as we aren't totally overpaying him.

That makes Hu a bench player if Abreu takes over second in 09. It also puts a fire under both Abreu and Hu to work hard to win the job. Hu has been sought after by other clubs and could be a value part of a necessary future trade. Signing Furcal makes sense to me, 3 years for 39 mil again?

2008-02-20 08:51:27
6.   Hythloday
2 - Integrating PVLs with marginal talent and young guys with boatloads (of talent).
2008-02-20 08:53:22
7.   PHilldodger
2 Not sure, but my guess is that he's referring to the fact that Torre made Jeter the shortstop and used Mariano Rivera for 100+ innings as a super set-up man/reliever. Pettite also passed 200 innings for the first time in his career in 1996.
I don't know what Torre's other options were in lieu of Jeter, Rivera and Pettite.
2008-02-20 08:56:58
8.   kinbote
3 An emphatic NO to extending Furcal. Hu is the future, and he will be more than ready by opening day 2009.
2008-02-20 09:02:48
9.   old dodger fan
7 '96 Yankees won the AL East and were 11-4 in the post-season beating the Braves in 6 in the WS. How much credit Torre should get is debatable but you can't complain about the results.
2008-02-20 09:02:58
10.   ToyCannon
If we had originally signed Rafy to a 6 year deal for 80 million we'd have thought Ned was nuts so why would extending Furcal for 3 years after the original contract is up be a good idea? He had one great 2nd half in 2006. An injury plagued 1st half in 2006 and a lost season in 2007 to injury. Does that get you a 3 year extension when you might have the best fielding SS in baseball ready to play for peanuts over the next 3 years who can approximate Rafy's offense other then his stolen base totals? That money can be better spent elsewhere unless Hu can bring back something elite in a deal.
2008-02-20 09:06:29
11.   Jim57
I have to agree with you ToyCannon.
2008-02-20 09:07:40
12.   GobiasIndustries
I'm all for locking up Furcal for another 3-4 years provided the terms of the contract aren't ridiculous. He is a proven commodity and everybody knows what to expect from him when healthy. While I too like the potential of both Hu and Abreu, I just think having a known entity like Furcal around always makes a club better......when healthy of course. My only stipulation would be that they put some kind of "lying about health status" clause in his contract....would never happen but would be pretty cool.
2008-02-20 09:10:08
13.   Aug C
I think that when we consider Furcal's future with the team, we need to think of the second base question as well. I am pretty sure I read that Hu had been playing or practicing some second base (not that i'm saying Hu would have to be the one to move). That's why having only one of Hu or Abreu succeed could be a reason to keep Furcal.
2008-02-20 09:12:40
14.   ToyCannon
I thought the success of the 96 Yankee's was directly related to the clean shaven, no hair below the collar look. The Yankee's have taught us that only people who shave daily and cut their hair on a regular basis can play winning baseball. At least in the 90's they did. It may come as a shock to many who think Joe Torre is the messiah but in the 21st century, the combination of a genius manager, a 200 million budget, and those daily grooming guidlines have won squat when World Championships are the goal. Thank You Luis Gonzalez for that.
2008-02-20 09:15:24
15.   bagg4
Congratulations to the Repkos. Thankfully a close encounter with Raffy is not likely while he's tending to his new baby.
2008-02-20 09:16:37
16.   kinbote
In the past, one argument in favor of re-signing Furcal has been: "What else are we going to spend our money on?"

I think it should be clear by now that we need to be building a war chest for Martin, Bills, Broxton, Kemp, Loney, et al. They are going to be commanding real money before we know it, and we don't want any unnecessary contracts getting in the way.

2008-02-20 09:20:59
17.   GobiasIndustries
Agreed. So what about a front loaded instead of back loaded contract extension for Furcal?
2008-02-20 09:22:31
18.   Disabled List
16 That's definitely been a gnawing thought at the back of my mind. Soon enough, these guys are gonna be commanding 8-figure salaries.
2008-02-20 09:24:20
19.   old dodger fan
Speaking of Furcal-From the Sporting News today:
"Shortstop Rafael Furcal was able to make a statement upon reporting to spring training that he couldn't make at any time last season: He's completely healthy.

"I'm feeling good, I'm feeling 100 percent," Furcal said Tuesday before participating in his first workout with the Los Angeles Dodgers. "If I'm healthy, I can do anything."

3 more years of the 2003 - 2006 Furcal-Sign me up.
3 more years of the 2007 Furcal-Let's try someone else.

2008-02-20 09:26:45
20.   ToyCannon
Rafy is a solid SS and I was happy when we signed him for his 28-30 year old seasons. I would not be as happy giving him the same money for his 31-33 year old seasons since his legs are a big part of his offense and they have been a big reason for his lack of production 9 out of the 12 months he's played for us. If we didn't have options it would change the equation but we do.
2008-02-20 09:28:37
21.   Bob Timmermann
I thought the baby was just due, but not actually out and about yet.
2008-02-20 09:30:41
22.   LogikReader

TC, those are good points about the 21st Century Yankees.

The Yankees did win a Championship in 2000. Does that count?

2008-02-20 09:30:49
23.   Daniel Zappala
I might sign Furcal for two years and move him to second in favor of Hu at short. Depends on whether Hu can hit in the major leagues.
2008-02-20 09:31:42
24.   paranoidandroid
I can see both sides of the sign/don't sign Furcal arguments. I was responding to the idea of signing him to an extension BEFORE the season starts.

My thought process includes that he's not going to command as much now as he will after a solid season. It stablizes an infield that should have Loney, Abreu/Hu, and LaRoche in '09 with one proven leader.

I like Hu's potential, he is a blue chip prospect. I agree that we need Abreu or Hu to take over second base in 09, we shouldn't extend Kent, he is near retirement and not worth what it would cost to pay him in addition to blocking the younger guys. Counting on a very young infield can pay off entirely by passing on Furcal, especially in terms of payroll. I just think we would be hedging a bit in a smart way, especially if we need free agent pitching in '09.

Furcal provides the type of leadoff bat we need. He has post season experience, he was our MVP in '06. Letting him walk because Hu is in the wings isn't the no brainer some around here think.

I would be very pleased to see Furcal stick around. I love the post game interviews with him. You can always count on him beginning an answer with "Yeah. Well, you know ..."

I'll never forget his first game in Dodger blue, he got on base five times.

2008-02-20 09:34:01
25.   kinbote
17 If we extend Furcal, we are essentially turning Hu into a trade chip. I don't think we could expect to get fair value for him in that situation. I'm fully comfortable going into 2009 with Hu the full-time SS. He has made huge strides offensively, his defense has never been questioned, and moving him to 2b would be a mistake.

I just asked John Sickels who his breakout Dodger prospect for this year would be, and he said Ivan DeJesus. That means we have two top-notch defensive-minded SS prospects coming through the system.

I guess it all boils down to how much we all like Furcal. I'd much rather extend Penny or even Jones [when the time comes] than devote our resources to a player who may or may not even be needed next year. How about this?: We offer him arbitration, and if he accepts it, we ride him for one more year. If not, we get draft pick compensation. I like Furcal, but I'm truly excited about Hu's arrival.

2008-02-20 09:36:06
26.   scareduck
Jeff Kent Day: like Training Day, only without the Oscar.
2008-02-20 09:36:40
27.   Daniel Zappala
We had perfectly clear skies last night, and now today lots of clouds in advance of the lunar eclipse. Bummer.
2008-02-20 09:37:06
28.   Jim57
With Lowe, Furcal, Nomar, Kent, and Loaiza off the payroll after next year we dump around 50M. Put Hu at short and Abreau at 2nd and use the money for a top drawer pitcher and to extend the young guys.
2008-02-20 09:38:16
29.   Jim57
And to pay part of Pierre's contract so we can dump him.
2008-02-20 09:39:28
30.   Gen3Blue
I don't know how hard Furcal is pushing to get this done before the season but it seems to me a great idea to wait a while.
I like Furc, but a half season could show where he really is at, and a bit more of what we have in Hu. If I thought he would really give us a better price to do this now, after a bad year, I would consider it.
But that's a joke!
2008-02-20 09:40:30
31.   cargill06
i was in the camp that signing furcal after this year was a good idea, however, after thinking it over the only way you'd want to re-sign him is he has a good year. if he has a good year he'll want more than he is making now and that money will be better served spent elsewhere. if the dodgers have a good run and furcal truely does love playing here maybe he'll give us a hometown discount, but i think the #1 priority would be re-signing lowe at somewhat below or at his market value.
2008-02-20 09:41:01
32.   ToyCannon
Were those the only times he got on base in April of 06?
2008-02-20 09:41:35
33.   kinbote
24 You make a very good point regarding the leadoff issue. I've always thought we signed Furcal to be our leadoff hitter--his position just happened to be shortstop.

If we do go with Hu next year, who bats leadoff? Ethier, Pierre, Abreu? Does it even matter?

2008-02-20 09:41:40
34.   underdog
24 I feel basically the same way; that is, I kind of waver back and forth. I picture Furcal having a great year this year, too, which, as you said, means he'll command more later. I also don't like the idea of blocking Hu and Abreu, but on the other hand, as much as I like them I'm not convinced starting next season with both of them will give us the offense we need (the defense would be great, that's for certain). Losing Kent is one thing. I guess I'm just nervous that replacing Kent and Furcal would actually mean the Dodgers management would hand the keys over to both Hu and Abreu together for next season. In other words, I'd much rather have Furcal plus Hu/Abreu for the other spot, than (insert unknown veteran infielder here) and Hu/Abreu.

But I'm excited and hopeful about them both, too.

Either way, even if this is his last year with LA, I expect a real comeback from Furcal.

2008-02-20 09:42:33
35.   Jim57
No on Lowe.
2008-02-20 09:42:58
36.   underdog
25 DeJesus? Really? Wow. Hrm. Well, that would certainly be nice to have another top shortstop, but I'm a little more skeptical.
2008-02-20 09:43:04
37.   Jim57
There will be better options than Lowe for the money he will want.
2008-02-20 09:43:33
38.   GrilledOnly
Due to a light rain this morning and a hole in the plastic wrap, my L.A. Times was sopping wet this morning. Does anyone besides me still get their news fix the old fashion way? Anyways, it's a good thing I can get my daily dose of Dodger news here on Dodger Thoughts. Keep up the good work.
2008-02-20 09:44:13
39.   cargill06
we've had this discussion before, i just can't believe the people who think it's not a good idea to sign lowe. he has been healthy his whole career, he's not a power pitcher so his numbers are less likely to decline and you can pencil him in for 200 innings and 3.50-3.75 era that is an extremely valuable pitcher.
2008-02-20 09:45:02
40.   kinbote
34 I've heard mention [by a poster] of targeting Mark Ellis next offseason to be our 2b. I personally think Hu is more likely to be our SS next year than Abreu is to be our 2b. Abreu has versatility going for him, which often perpetuates itself into a career as a bench player.
2008-02-20 09:45:29
41.   Jim57
C Martin
1st Loney
2nd Abreu
3rd LaRoche
LF Ethier
CF Jones
RF Kemp
I'd like to see this lineup in 2009.
Very good defense and lots of pop.
2008-02-20 09:45:46
42.   old dodger fan
37 Who?
2008-02-20 09:45:47
43.   cargill06
i guess how jason schmidt preforms has a big impact on the front office's decision on lowe
2008-02-20 09:46:40
44.   natepurcell
This is my thought process concerning the middle infield.

After this season, we basically have two spots opening up through probable retirement and free agency.

I wouldn't outright dismiss a contract extension for Furcal at this very moment because the two young players who have been groomed to become the Dodgers two middle infield fixtures both have that plate discipline issue that needs to be worked out.

I like Raffy a lot. I love the way he plays offensively and defensively. I'm not ready to kick him out to the pasture just yet but I also would not be willing to negotiate an extension before the season. We need to see how Hu and Abreu both play this season and if they both show signs of actually "getting it" when it comes to plate discipline.

2008-02-20 09:47:11
45.   natepurcell
But I also look forward to the 4 picks we are going to get from Lowe and Raffy.
2008-02-20 09:47:47
46.   kinbote
39 2009 Rotation:

1. Penny [perhaps newly extended]
2. Bills
3. Kuroda
4. Schmidt
5. Kershaw

Honorable Mention: Kuo, McDonald, Meloan, ?

2008-02-20 09:48:10
47.   Jim57
Lowe is heading into his late 30's and that is when pitchers start to decline rapidly without steroids. Lowe's hip is not going to get any better as he ages and I fear that the injury bug is going to catch up with him in the next two years.
2008-02-20 09:48:36
48.   madmac
AMGEN, The Tour of California is about to start stage 3 outside my office at the courthouse. Pretty cool. Lots of free swag to be had.
2008-02-20 09:49:46
49.   MC Safety
Toycannon pointed out that Furcal might only have a speed advantage over Hu. I think that is right on the money. Why sign Furcal to an extension when he played on a bum ankle the whole year? His speed is going to be in sharp decline pretty soon here, Hu is the better option 2009 forward. That doesnt mean Ned thinks that, we know how much he loves PVL's. It's hard to imagine Ned fielding a LaRoche, Hu, Abreu, Loney infield.
2008-02-20 09:50:16
50.   GoBears
I don't really understand that logic that the Dodgers should only re-sign Furcal if he has a good year this year. The only thing a good year this year would tell us that we don't know for sure right now is that last year's injury is behind him, and he's healthy. A new contract would be for the years AFTER this year. They should re-sign him only if they think that during THOSE years he would out-perform Hu AND the value of whatever player(s) Furcal-like money could afford. That he has a good 2008 would be very nice, but it shouldn't affect the net present value calculation for the next contract. 2008 is already paid for.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-02-20 09:50:18
51.   Jim57
Old Dodger Fan,
Extend Penny.
2008-02-20 09:50:58
52.   natepurcell Lowe and Raffy at their current rates or show CC Sabathia the scrilla?
2008-02-20 09:51:16
53.   cargill06
47 hip is a valid point, but look at pitchers that are sinker-ball pitchers very rarely do they have arm trouble, he is extremely reliable.

but like i said if schmidt shows he's not finished that will have a big influence on what to do with lowe, also kershaw needs to show improvement with his control this year in the minors or i don't know if he'll be ready for '09

2008-02-20 09:51:32
54.   Jim57
Furcal is not going to want to take a pay cut. He is not a 14M year player.
2008-02-20 09:51:44
55.   GobiasIndustries
I agree about the money. No way we pay him the same premium in any new deal. I think a big part of why he received the deal he did at the time was to not only entice him to come to LA, but for Colleti to make a bit of a splash and show other "premier" (I hate that term) free agents that LA is not the place for proven (I hate that term too) guys to come and die anymore, ala Brian Jordan, Robin Ventura, Fred McGriff and so on.
We also have to take into account injuries. Freak injuries are known to happen all the time, just look at the current state of Hunter Pence for an instant example, so I like the idea of having depth by extending Furcal. Maybe Abreu becomes the next great utility guy and Hu is the stud, or vice versa, or maybe neither of the two can hit for an extended period of time in the majors. Maybe they both just absolutely kill it and we have a plethora of talented middle infielders. There are too many what if's to even contemplate. For fear of the unknown, and Furcal's track record, extending him 2-3 years isn't a bad idea I don't think in the long run. And if doesn't pan out, we can always trade him.
2008-02-20 09:52:42
56.   ImprobableImpossible
What's playing out right now is the very reason the Dodgers and Furcal agreed to a 3-year deal.

Furcal knew he'd be close enough to his prime to demand another long-term deal. The Dodgers knew they'd have a capable replacement waiting the wings and be in a strong position to bargain.

If Raffy wants another year, go for it. But that won't cut it. To lock him up, you probably need a 4-year deal. That's what he'll get in free agency.

I don't see how the Dodgers can do that right now, unless they simply don't think Hu has the goods.

2008-02-20 09:54:10
57.   ToyCannon
Nothing against Lowe who has been very consistent as a Dodger but if I'm going to spend money on pitching, I'd rather spend it on CC then Lowe.
2008-02-20 09:55:06
58.   regfairfield
49 Conversely, I think that the best case scenario for Hu right now is a decent Furcal year like .280/.345/.405, albeit with less isolated patience.
2008-02-20 09:58:08
59.   cargill06
57 CC is going to want a a multi year deal for at least 18 million a year. he is overweight and yet to have arm trouble, seeing how we've been burned in the past with long term pitching deals, don't you think it'd be safer and maybe a better option to sign lowe to a 2 year deal for less anually?
2008-02-20 09:59:17
60.   ToyCannon

James Loney has lobbied that the Dodgers do not turn Furcal into a 2nd baseman. He can't find a sponge strong enough to protect his fingers from the howitzer throws of Rafy from that short distance.

2008-02-20 09:59:52
61.   GobiasIndustries
That seems to be right on the money. I hadn't considered all that but I think you are indeed correct.
2008-02-20 09:59:54
62.   MC Safety
No thanks on Lowe. We have Kershaw ready next year, and I'm betting Sabathia finishes his career as a Dodger. Can you imagine going from no leftys in the rotation to those leftys?


2008-02-20 10:00:39
63.   Jim57
I like Natepurcell's idea. Go after CC with the Furcal/Lowe money.
2008-02-20 10:02:25
64.   ToyCannon
Maybe, but Lowe has said repeatedly how he misses East Coast baseball. I'll be surprised if he doesn't take his sportscaster and head back East.

Are you holding it against CC that he hasn't had arm trouble yet? Talk to Mickey Lolich and David Wells about LH pitchers with weight problems.

2008-02-20 10:02:28
65.   regfairfield
59 If you have the budget for it, you should always sign the best player available. Derek Lowe's age 35 and 36 years are probably a pretty replaceable commodity. C.C. Sabathia's prime isn't.

Yes, we'd all love it if everyone took two year deals, but the only way you can get premium talent from outside the organization is by paying out the nose. You can't have a good team without good players, otherwise you end up like the Blue Jays, or the more recent renditions of the Dodgers. (Yes, I realize that we made the playoffs twice recently, but that's largely because of a terrible division). Hopefully the emergence of our prospects stops the trend.

2008-02-20 10:03:18
66.   regfairfield
63 There's going to be like 45 million dollars free next year. Why not do both?
2008-02-20 10:03:28
67.   old dodger fan
If we pass on Lowe in hopes of signing CC we could easily wind up with neither of them. If Schmidt is healthy that's not so bad. If he is not healthy we better hope Penny pitches well or we could be headed for 4th place again.
2008-02-20 10:06:53
68.   ToyCannon
That would mean Ned was thinking 3 years into the future and they felt Hu was the guy back when he just a single A player. Ned has proven that he just hates long term deals. Which makes the whole JP thing even harder to understand. He held the line on Furcal, Schmidt, A Jones, Nomar, and Kuroda but couldn't hold the line on JP?
2008-02-20 10:07:55
69.   underdog
49 "That doesnt mean Ned thinks that, we know how much he loves PVL's. It's hard to imagine Ned fielding a LaRoche, Hu, Abreu, Loney infield." - Yah, that's sort of what I was trying to get at in 34 . I'd rather have Furcal than another veteran - although I do like Mark Ellis, as mentioned above. He's one of the more underrated players in baseball. But I just don't fully picture Colletti handing over the keys to both Abreu and Hu. Ah well, we shall see. I am still rooting for Furcal to have a good year, because I think that will be a huge key to the Dodgers' season.

As far as Lowe goes, he's been one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball over recent years, but locking him up to another long term deal would make no sense. He's just going to get more and more injury prone, riskier to keep around. You thank him for his time, take the draft pick and move on. There's also the little matter of the Kershaws and McDonalds of the system knocking on the door.

2008-02-20 10:08:41
70.   MC Safety
58 If Hu does that adios Raffy. From what I saw in September, Hu is almost ready. If he can be a tad more patient, he can be an elite SS. Do you think Hu is capable of hitting 10-15 jacks in the bigs right now Reg?
2008-02-20 10:12:25
71.   MC Safety
68 That is precisely why Ned is a horrible GM.

Derek Lowe is a Tiger next year. Give me CC or give me death.

2008-02-20 10:13:00
72.   cargill06
if you sign CC Kershaw won't be in the rotation until 2010 (unless schmidt is finished, or they don't pick up penny's option) which actually maybe best for him anyway.
2008-02-20 10:14:05
73.   Ken Noe
68 He's essentially admitted that he panicked when he lost Drew, and I take him at his implied word. I like to hope that he's learned from that, and given the Jones deal I think he did. As for the larger subject, Hu will be cheaper, I'd like to see if he can be as good.
2008-02-20 10:16:19
74.   GobiasIndustries
Didn't Ned think there was some competition for Pierre? I thought it was the Giants? So he beefed up his offer to make it more attractive to Pierre and not get "burned" (I find that so funny to type when we're talking about Pierre) by SF. You are right though, it seems to be the only FA contract he has awarded of late that bucks his current trend.
2008-02-20 10:17:02
75.   Hythloday
66 If you're the McCourts and you know that money is coming off the books and you know you have young talent you need to resign soon, don't you just bank the savings rather than spending for the sake of maintaining a certain salary level? It isn't clear to me from a business perspective that those savings have to be spent to remain competitive.
2008-02-20 10:17:33
76.   Ken Noe
74 It was the Giants, and I personally think it was Sabean's version of rookie hazing, and it just went too far.
2008-02-20 10:18:39
77.   cargill06
75 good point, you shouldn't spend money just to spend it. obviously the rotation is better with CC in it, but is it the best way to spend $125?
2008-02-20 10:20:16
78.   ToyCannon
Nada, there is not a door made that can hold the minotaur back from being in the rotation in 2009 unless it was built by Tommy John.
2008-02-20 10:20:25
79.   regfairfield
70 No, I'm not sold on his power yet, it spiked when he went to Vegas, so right now I think the power is more of the product of the park. Fortunately, we have a full season to find out if it's real. If he keeps hitting for power in Vegas, get rid of Furcal, otherwise I'd keep him. This year means a lot.

Like I said, those numbers are Hu's best case scenario right now. We can expect that from Furcal if he's healthy.

72 Someone will get hurt. I don't expect Kershaw to be fully entrenched in the rotation until mid 2009.

2008-02-20 10:20:52
80.   regfairfield
77 What would you spend it on?
2008-02-20 10:21:46
81.   cargill06
78 if managment won't bench pierre (who is awful) based on his contract, which high priced pitcher who is at least decent will they send to the bull-pen
2008-02-20 10:22:03
82.   regfairfield
75 We're a better team with Sabathia and arguably Furcal or Lowe, so the money is worth spending.
2008-02-20 10:22:20
83.   madmac
71 He's terrible because? He hates long term deals or because he signed Pierre?
2008-02-20 10:22:34
84.   Eric Stephen
if you sign CC Kershaw won't be in the rotation until 2010

That's not necessarily a bad thing, is it? Kershaw will be 22 in 2010. It might be good to trade his age 21 season for his age 27 season.

I would not re-sign Lowe, and I'd wait and see about Furcal (mostly to see how Hu & Abreu develop). I would offer both arbitration and be thrilled if they accept, but more thrilled if the Dodgers finally decide to go over slot with those 4 picks.

2008-02-20 10:22:48
85.   GobiasIndustries
Interesting hypothesis. If it's true, I despise the Giants even more now.
2008-02-20 10:24:22
86.   cargill06
77 if the team is good this year, i don't see a need to spend money. i would just re-sign lowe (if needed) for a shorter term less expensive deal and like 75 said spend that money wisely in locking up our young guys before they become really really expensive, or maybe work an extension with jones (if he proves last year was fluke).
2008-02-20 10:25:52
87.   cargill06
84 i agree with you in the aspect if kershaw has to wait til '10 to join the rotation that maybe best for him, i said that in the same post.
2008-02-20 10:26:35
88.   regfairfield
Here's basically how to determine if a contract is good in my opinion.

Does it make your team better for the duration of the contract? If it doesn't, does it make your team so much better in the good years that it's worth the downside?

Sabathia qualifies for at least one of those. We have the money to have Sabathia and our young guys, so I don't think it's an issue.

2008-02-20 10:27:25
89.   Eric Stephen
I don't think it's possible to sign Lowe to a short term deal. He will be heading into his age 36 season (2009) looking for most likely his last big contract. He will get 3 or 4 years at at least $10m annually, and I'm not willing to give him that.
2008-02-20 10:27:49
90.   El Lay Dave
From the last thread:

247. Bob Timmermann 2008-02-19 22:32:53
245 The boxscore in the LA Times shows Jim Cleamons with ZERO points in that game.

Ah, why memories shouldn't be trusted. Perhaps it was that we were cheering for Cleamons to get into the game and score as he was the only player who hadn't? Did get a shot and miss?

2008-02-20 10:28:42
91.   madmac
86 if Jones proves last year was a fluke it will be very difficult to sign and probably not worth what it would take.
2008-02-20 10:28:47
92.   cargill06
89 do you think a team will give $40 for a 36 year old pitcher for 4 years? who was the last pitcher to sign a 4 year deal at the age of 36?
2008-02-20 10:29:11
93.   ImprobableImpossible
75 ,86 If the McCourts see the need to raise the prices of tickets, parking, T-shirts, bobbleheads, Dodger Dogs, peanuts and beer, then I see the need for the team to spend whatever they have budgeted on the best players available.
2008-02-20 10:30:45
94.   Bob Timmermann
Cleamons was 0 for 3 from the floor I believe.
2008-02-20 10:33:11
95.   Eric Stephen
Glavine signed for 3/$35 (which became 4/$45) for his age 37-40 seasons.
2008-02-20 10:35:02
96.   cargill06
if we fast forward 11 months from today and CC is on our roster i'd be thrilled. however if i had to option of a 2 yr, 20-22 million for lowe or 7 yr , 130 million for CC. i think the better bet maybe lowe, obviously CC makes your team better but lowe is no stiff he is a very good pitcher and you're going to get 2 years out of him and $100 more in cash over the next 5 years. russ martin kemp bills brox are all going to want to get paid.
2008-02-20 10:36:29
97.   cargill06
95 oh ya. it's tough to forecast which decisions will be made with pitchers for next year, espicially with the question marks the dodges have for this year
2008-02-20 10:39:18
98.   Jon Weisman
There is no way Lowe signs for two years.
2008-02-20 10:40:08
99.   Jon Weisman
... unless he has a terrible 2008. The market for a pitcher of his background commands more than a two-year contract.
2008-02-20 10:43:18
101.   Bob Timmermann
This is going to be incendiary I can see.
Show/Hide Comments 102-150
2008-02-20 10:43:46
102.   Eric Stephen
Also, since Santana extended with the Mets, the 2009 FA class got that much weaker. Sabthia's the big prize, obviously, but here are the other top FA pitchers next year:

Lowe (age 36 in 2009)
Sheets (30, with an injury history)
Pedro (37 with an injury history)
Glavine (43, probably will retire)
Pettitte (37, will he retire?)
Wolf (32, with an injury history)

Lowe is looking pretty good in that market, and could be as high as the 2nd best pitcher on the market depending on the health of some of those guys.

2008-02-20 10:43:54
103.   OhioBlues12
At first I thought re-signing Furcal would be a good idea, however the prospect of picking up CC is too tempting. Letting Lowe leave (he will easily command at least 3 years) and allowing Hu and Abreu take over would give us the cash to do it. It would not be a bad idea to hold Kershaw back if we don't have a spot open or maybe even work him into the bullpen if he is totally dominant.



2008-02-20 10:45:20
104.   cargill06
100 please read my first sentance of 96
2008-02-20 10:46:47
105.   cargill06
100 and my whole logic with trading kemp for bedard is you get a inexpensive pitcher for 2 years and at the end of this year you throw the kitchen sink at dunn
2008-02-20 10:47:00
106.   Jon Weisman
Comment 100 was a violation of at least one of the site rules. Maybe rule 7, maybe rules 2 or 3. But it was definitely problematic.
2008-02-20 10:48:33
107.   GoBears
Best thing that could happen for the long term would be for Furcal to get hurt again, and have Hu come up and rake all season. And he'd have to have a fast start, to keep Colletti from trading for Shawon Dunston.

That seems to be the only way that even Colletti sees that Hu is good enough to let Furcal go.

2008-02-20 10:51:35
108.   Eric Stephen
Penny is only under contract through 2009.
2008-02-20 10:55:15
109.   OhioBlues12
108 - That's right, we hold an option on him for next season which will likely be picked up. I guess maybe he doesn't get re-signed if McDonald or Elbert proves themselves.
2008-02-20 10:56:06
110.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2008-02-20 10:56:21
111.   madmac
107 yeah that's not a rule 7 violation
2008-02-20 10:57:24
112.   MC Safety
106 Wow, sorry you feel that way Jon. Just a few observations.
2008-02-20 10:59:05
113.   Eric Stephen
I could see the Angels making a run at Sabathia, especially with Garland's contract expiring after 2008.

...which means I left Garland off the FA list for next year. He'll be 29 in 2009, and his 2008 will go a long way in determining his rank on the FA market.

Last 3 years:
Lowe: 639.1 IP, 118 ERA+
Garland: 640.2 IP, 114 ERA+

Given that Garland is 7 years younger than Lowe, he is more likely to be coveted than Lowe. Still, my point stands that Lowe will garner a lot of attention next offseason.

2008-02-20 10:59:30
114.   GobiasIndustries
Shawon Dunston! Comedy. And yet he would be exactly the type player, if not THE player Ned would seek. Not comedy.
2008-02-20 11:35:32
115.   CodyS
Furcal is capable of being one of the best players in the league. Do you remember the second half of 2006? He went .339/.399/.564 with 16/21 steals. Also played great defense.

First half of 2006, he was adjusting. 2007, he foolishly played through the ankle injury. But when there were no excuses for three months, he was incredible.

Hu and Abreu are just never going to do that, ever.

2008-02-20 12:50:33
116.   Joe Pierre
I am happy that Jeff Kent & Rafael Furcal, who may be with us for the last time are with us now regardless of what the future holds. As I said on ITD these guys at short & 2nd, hardworking middle infielders who also have the power of smashing that ball over the wall are the best counter-action you can have for a not to powerful hitting outfielder by the name of Juan Pierre.

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