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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

WHAP Is Not a Baseball Stat
2008-02-22 10:12
by Jon Weisman

Friend of Toaster Bryan Smith, who seems to be writing everywhere these days about baseball, is also keen on entertainment like I am. He recently co-launched a site, Wet, Hot American Produce, that has become a daily read for me. With Oscar Sunday approaching, this is a perfect time to introduce yourself to it.

* * *

Jim Baker of Baseball Prospectus has some positive vibes about the Dodger rotation.

* * *

As part of the team's ongoing 50th-anniversary-in-Los Angeles celebration, the Dodgers are looking for registered L.A. Marathon runners to trot together under the figurative Dodger banner during the March 2 event. Those participating will something Dodger-related to boost their running ensemble, as well as two tickets for a 2008 Dodger game.

If you're interested, send an e-mail to the team.

Comments (223)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-02-22 10:25:33
1.   regfairfield
From the last thread re Howard v. Cabrera.

Cabrera plays in a pitchers park, Howard plays in the most hitter freindly park in baseball. Cabrera is also three years younger Howard's 2006 was better than any of Miguel's years, but Cabrera's three best years are much better than Howard's second best, plus Miguel Cabrera plays a harder position (poorly, but Howard is terrible at first base).

2008-02-22 10:28:23
2.   LogikReader
I am about to ask a really dumb question.

Does anyone happen to have 4 tickets to tomorrow's UCLA game burning a hole in their pocket? You may consider Logikreader a potential buyer, so I would be interested in taking them off your hands.


Jon, I like the name of the new site a lot! I am also impressed at their comprehensive analysis.

2008-02-22 10:31:22
3.   cargill06
1 but should the arbitrator be factoring in what year of arbitration you're in? shouldn't it be you get paid for what you're worth on the field not based on how much service time you have to be fair to both the player and the orginazation?
2008-02-22 10:31:57
4.   Eric Stephen
Continuing Howard arb chat from before, it's a service time thing.

Miguel Cabrera made $7.4m in 2007 in his first arb year. I would argue that Pujols looms larger with his $7m figure in his first arb year of 2004 (the $7m would have been a losing amount, but was part of a 7/$100m contract). These are the "records" for 1st year arb earners.

But, the key is they had 3 full years of service time, which is one year ahead of Howard. For Howard to make $10m now puts him at least $13m in his 4th year (the same spot Pujols & Cabrera were in with their records of $7m & $7.4m).

Essentially, Howard will have ended up doubling the record, which is absurd and doesn't bode well for clubs with a lot of arb eligible players in the pipeline -- like the Dodgers.

2008-02-22 10:35:52
5.   regfairfield
3 Yes, it's how it always worked. You get more with more service time.
2008-02-22 10:35:59
6.   Eric Stephen
I would argue service time is fair to both the player and organization. It's part of the collective bargaining agreement between the players and owners. The players go through six years before they can become free agents. Those are the only 6 years that clubs have the hammer in negotiations. After that, it's all players.

In arbitration, service time is as large a factor -- or larger -- than performance.

2008-02-22 10:36:51
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - In theory that'd be nice, but you're throwing out the entire labor agreement between players and owners in the process. It's just not realistic.
2008-02-22 10:38:50
8.   Eric Stephen
The Sizemore and Tulowitzki deals look more and more brilliant with the Howard arbitration decision.
2008-02-22 10:39:45
9.   cargill06
the CBA must've forgot to ask the pitchers what they think, it could be very tough for a pitcher to sustain their level of performance throughout their 6 yrs, they could lose millions for not sustaining their level of performance in yrs 2 and 3 til year 5 and 6 thus costing them millions that they deserve but don't get because they haven't pitched long enough.
2008-02-22 10:42:16
10.   Eric Stephen
Pitchers are part of the players union, which overwhelmingly ratified the CBA -- which included the arbitration process.
2008-02-22 10:43:35
11.   Eric Stephen
Plus, I don't get your point. Why would the hypothetical pitcher you describe "deserve" millions if he's not good enough to sustain his performance?
2008-02-22 10:43:43
12.   bhsportsguy
9 Yeah, but you could argue that the mandatory 6 years of service time before you become a free agent (not counting the current 4 or 5 years of minor league time before having to put on a MLB 40-man roster and then 3 option years before having to be put on a 25-man roster, where you actually begin to accrue service time) is unfair to all players.
2008-02-22 10:43:57
13.   regfairfield
9 You have to be really, really bad to lose money in arbitration. Even if you do, the worst you can get is a 20 percent pay cut.
2008-02-22 10:47:40
14.   cargill06
11 pitchers are way more likely to have an injury that will never have them return to their previous level of performance than position players.
2008-02-22 10:48:24
15.   MC Safety
So, I'd like to get your guys opinions on this topic.

Why hasn't Jason Schmidt received the same heat Carl Pavano got/gets? Is it a coastal thing? Are we that laid back?

2008-02-22 10:48:33
16.   bhsportsguy
12 As an example, Delwyn Young was drafted in 2002, played rookie ball in 2002. Now since he was signed after he turned 19, he only had 3 years until the Dodgers had to put him on the 40-man roster (which they did in November 2004.)
So then he served all 3 option years (2005-2007) in the minors and now he waits to see if he will make the 25-man roster, 6 years after he was initially signed.

If Young can accrue his 6 years of MLB service time, he will be able to put himself on the market 11 years after signed his first professional contract.

2008-02-22 10:49:28
17.   regfairfield
15 Jason Schmidt's only been injured once and actually looks like he wants to pitch. I don't see how you can blame him.
2008-02-22 10:50:21
18.   Jon Weisman
Eric Gagne is the perfect example of what Cargill is talking about. Gagne peaked during his arbitration years and is struggling with health and performance in his free agent years. One could argue that Gagne was underpaid for one of the greatest relief seasons ever. Yet, I don't think anyone looks back at Gagne and thinks he's gotten cheated. The arbitration system really is plenty lucrative for players. You basically have to flame out before you get to arbitration to end up losing out.
2008-02-22 10:51:34
19.   cargill06
15 if jason schmidt lives out the life of his contract with little sucsess than it maybe compatable, also everything is magnified for the yanks aka east coast bias. and if it makes you feel better jason schmidt won the award on as most overpaid pitcher.
2008-02-22 10:53:13
20.   Eric Stephen
So, what do Martin's arb years look like now?

Is $6/$8.5/$11/$13 out of the question? Heading into next years' arb hearing, Martin is likely to have 2 all-star appearances, 1-2 silver sluggers, and would be considered the best catcher in the NL if not the game.

That's 8.5/11/13 for his 4-6 years.

Mauer got 3.75/6.25/10.5 for his 4-6 years.

McCann got 3.5/5.5/6.5 for his 4-6 years.

Thanks a lot, unnamed arbitrator!

2008-02-22 10:55:56
21.   silverwidow
Uh oh...

Delwyn Young to start working out at 3B

2008-02-22 10:55:58
22.   cargill06
20 so, if we had the option of signing lowe for let's say 3-40 or cc for 7-130 don't you think lowe would be the better option so we can lock up our studs?

also, depending on how schmidt progresses and how kershaw progresses signing lowe or cc may not be necisarry.

2008-02-22 10:58:57
23.   Eric Stephen
Since CC is better & younger than Lowe and would only cost $6m more per year in your scenario, then yes I would rather sign CC.
2008-02-22 10:59:37
24.   regfairfield
22 No, because we have room in our budget to do both. 120 million dollars is a lot of coin.

The Dodgers are in a position where they should always go after the best player available. The combation of player development and budget we have should make us near unstoppable. It should at least mean that we can stomp the teams in our division with half our payroll. If you start going after budget guys, you lose the advantages that money brings.

2008-02-22 11:00:04
25.   MC Safety
17 How do you determine if Jason Schmidt actually wants to pitch and Carl Pavano doesn't?
2008-02-22 11:01:16
26.   regfairfield
25 Schmidt hasn't acted like a weasel yet.
2008-02-22 11:02:08
27.   bhsportsguy
22 I think the Dodgers will be in a very good position re starters at the end of this season, they have 3 top-mid rotation guys in AA or higher (Kershaw, McDonald, and Elbert), 3 other interesting prospects, (Meloan, Orenduff and Adkins), plus the younger guys that are moving up in the system.

They will still have Billingsly, Penny(team option), and Kuroda, if Schmidt is healthy, he will be on board for 2009. And you still have Kuo.

Whether or not they go for C.C. or similar type free agent will depend greatly on the progress of the young pitchers.

2008-02-22 11:02:25
28.   Eric Stephen
If anything, that bodes well for Delwyn making the team. The more willing they are to use him as the supersub IF/OF guy, the more value he has.
2008-02-22 11:03:30
29.   cargill06
i agree with regfairfeild, it's obvious he has been working out in his indoor gym and hasn't left the house much... look at than tan.

2008-02-22 11:04:34
30.   cargill06
27 i completely agree. if there is enough devolpment i think it would be wise to stay away from CC
2008-02-22 11:05:02
31.   cargill06
wait!!!! and sheets too, and pedro let me cover all the bases
2008-02-22 11:05:04
32.   fanerman
29 My eyes! The goggles! Zhey do nothing!
2008-02-22 11:05:05
33.   kinbote
20 Any way you slice it, the Howard ruling is bad news for us. It's too much to assume that the ruling will impact our decisions on players like Abreu & Meloan; but, it certainly means that any chance we had of getting a team-friendly deal for Martin is out the window. That's exactly why Gurnick's statement along the lines of "There's no reason to sign our young players long-term when they're cheap now" is hogwash.
2008-02-22 11:09:54
34.   MC Safety
30 But you would trade Kemp and prospects for two years of Bedard?
2008-02-22 11:11:46
35.   bhsportsguy
33 I will be very happy if Kemp, Loney or LaRoche post numbers that will draw comparisons to Ryan Howard in their first arbitration-eligible season.

Broxton, Martin and Ethier will be the first ones down this road, no real worries with Broxton and Ethier (unless Andre has a monster year) but Martin being a catcher puts him in a different category as long as he has another year like last year. But even Russ isn't going to burst the bank like Howard.

2008-02-22 11:12:48
36.   cargill06
34 no i'd have done kemp for bedard not prospects, bedard is as cheap as penny and a better pitcher and we all agree how valuable prenny at his price.
2008-02-22 11:13:27
37.   Eric Enders
The arbitration system and, really, the collective bargaining agreement as a whole, is specifically designed to favor veterans over younger players, regardless of skill level. I think this is done at the behest of the players' union, not the owners. For whatever reasons, older players have always had a lot more power within the union than younger players have.

8 "The Sizemore and Tulowitzki deals look more and more brilliant with the Howard arbitration decision."

And so does the Russell Martin deal.

Oh, wait.

2008-02-22 11:15:33
38.   Marty
I think if the owner's had their druthers, they'd junk arbitration asap. Even though they were the one's that thought it up.
2008-02-22 11:17:41
39.   Eric Enders
A lot of people seem to think we're going to be able to sign more free agents in the next couple of years because Lowe, Penny, Furcal, Jones, Kent, and Nomar are coming off the books. But won't most of that have to be pumped right back into the arbitration salaries of the Jacksonville Five and friends? It's going to be a huge financial burden on the team trying to keep all of those guys when they become eligible for free agency around the same time. We're almost certainly going to lose some of them.
2008-02-22 11:23:46
40.   bhsportsguy
38 I've said it before, go find a copy of "The Lords of the Realm," and see how Marvin Miller's initial thought was to have every player just be a free agent at the end of every year.

And to me, the whole Martin extension non-talk story probably falls somewhere in the middle, obviously Martin and agent want the Dodgers to make an offer first and it sounds like the Dodgers wanted to feel out what Martin and agent are looking for.

It does not sound like an impossibility to fix and the Dodgers have not announced that they have just renewed Martin's contract which is their right. Let's see how the next few weeks go.

2008-02-22 11:24:25
41.   Eric Stephen
The other day I posted the likely payroll in 2009, and we're already at $95m without making any significant moves. So yeah, we don't necessarily get to shop the 1980s Wheel of Fortune prize area.
2008-02-22 11:26:49
42.   Humma Kavula
40 The amount I don't know about this could fill warehouses, but...

Wasn't it Charlie O. Finley that wanted to make every player a free agent every year? And wasn't Miller secretly scared that the other owners would sign on?

After all, if the baseball market is flooded with hundreds of players every year, won't that increase in supply depress salaries?

Like I say, I could be so, so wrong about this. If I am, please explain.

2008-02-22 11:27:22
43.   Eric Enders
41 Right, and 2009 is just the tip of the iceberg, too. It gets worse after that.
2008-02-22 11:28:21
44.   cargill06
43 after '09 i 16 from schmidt comes off the book and 18 from andruw.
2008-02-22 11:28:59
45.   kinbote
41 I forgot to say thank you for that. I really enjoyed the breakdown.
2008-02-22 11:29:24
46.   Jon Weisman
Too much gloom and doom! You guys are forgetting about all the World Series ticket revenue that will help pay these salaries!
2008-02-22 11:30:06
47.   Disabled List
39 Soo enough, the Jacksonville Five and Friends (love that name) are going to be taking up the huge chunk of payroll currently occupied by Schmidt, Loaiza, Pierre, Lowe, etc. Which means that the Dodger farm system will need to keep chugging along, providing low-cost production as an offset.

Of course, some will be leaving. The story of building a long-lasting homegrown team of stars like in the 70s is nice, but it's a little fanciful in this era. If I had to guess, I'd bet Broxton will be the first one out of town, just by virtue of being a reliever.

2008-02-22 11:30:10
48.   Marty
Bob, Deadspin wants you to vote your approval/disapproval of Billy Packer.
2008-02-22 11:30:55
49.   Eric Stephen
But Loney, Kemp, Martin, Billingsley, Broxton, Ethier will all get raises through arbitration as well.
2008-02-22 11:32:44
50.   Eric Stephen
Not to mention all the revenue from product sales of "LA Roche" products, with the LA logo prominently featured much like the "ValenzueLA" t-shirts of yesteryear!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-02-22 11:34:38
51.   kinbote
One lesson from this whole situation is to ride the team-controlled guys as long as you can before they get expensive. We're likely to see situations soon--for example--where a productive, but now arb-eligible, Andre Ethier might be moved to make room for a productive, but dirt cheap, Delwyn Young.

Clearly, the ruling in the Howard case didn't give much weight to the [crucial] issue of service time. It set a precedent that teams will now have to deal with when attempting to sign their young players.

2008-02-22 11:39:35
52.   Jon Weisman
By the way, there's a Jon that writes for WHAP, but that's not me.
2008-02-22 11:40:39
53.   bhsportsguy
50 Just a note, all revenue from concessions, jerseys and the like gets put into a big pot and shared with all teams.

So it is teams like the Royals and Rays who make money from all those Yankee and Red Sox hats and jerseys sold throughout the country.

51 Certainly Howard's arbitration ruling set a new ceiling but really, it is a pretty high bar, HR leader, MVP seasons. Not too many 3rd year players have those type of credentials.

2008-02-22 11:42:43
54.   Eric Stephen
I meant the ones sold just outside the Dodger Stadium parking lot, by all the stealth employees of the club. :)
2008-02-22 11:43:27
55.   Eric Enders
I liked WHAP-Jon's turn of phrase on "unless the Academy goes vote-for-Crash crazy..."
2008-02-22 11:45:47
56.   old dodger fan
What constitutes a "year" towards a players 6 years of service before free agency and 3 years towards arbitration?

For example in 2005 Broxton appeared in 14 games. I don't know how many days he was on the 25 man roster. I don't think 2005 counted.

Could 2 partial years count as 1 year?

2008-02-22 11:47:49
57.   kinbote
53 Good point. I'll take a step backwards on the plank. Just don't win the MVP this year, Martin! ;)
2008-02-22 11:49:28
58.   MC Safety
That thing the dodgers are doing with the marathon is pretty cool. Jon just got me a free Dodger ticket if my friend decides to run!
2008-02-22 11:54:11
59.   silverwidow
56 172 days counts as one year.

Broxton spent most of 2006 on the roster, so that brief run in 2005 made it a cumulative year.

2008-02-22 11:55:04
60.   Marty
55 If Daniel Day Lewis doesn't win, there will be blood in my neighborhood.
2008-02-22 11:56:21
61.   bhsportsguy
56 Broxton's first 2 seasons came to 1 year of service time exactly (which is kind of amazing in itself) so he now has 2 years of service time.

Service time is days spent on the 25-man roster or MLB DL, which is why Scott Boras was fighting for Tony Abreu to be on the DL rather than optioned down to AAA. 172 days equals one year of service time.

Both Martin and Ethier will fall into the Super Two category for arbitration, assuming they spend all year on the 25 man roster, they will have 2 years and 150+ days of service time. That will put them in the group eligible for arbitration time. Chad Billingsly will fall a 20 or so days short of possibly being in that group.

2008-02-22 11:56:38
62.   Eric Stephen
Let's further make an ass out of you and me, and guess the 2010 payroll to see where the Dodgers stand (continuing from the other day):

C - Martin - $8m (4th year; 2nd year arb)
1B - Loney - $3.5m (1st year arb)
2B - Abreu - $500k (3rd year)
SS - Hu - $400k (2nd year)
3B - LaRoche - $500k (3rd year)
LF - Ethier - $4m (4th year; 2nd year arb)
CF - Pierre - $10m
RF - Kemp - $3.5m (1st year arb)
Total Starters - $30.4m

OF - Delwyn Young - $500k (3rd year -- I think I left him off 2009)
OF - Repko - $2m (3rd year arb)
C - John Q. Backstop - $1m
1B - Mark Sweeney Type - $1m
IF - Lucille II Type - $1m
Total Bench - $5.5m

Starting Pitching
Billingsley - $4m (1st year arb)
Kuroda - $13m
Kershaw - $400k (1st full year)
Kuo - $1m (1st year arb)
Withrow/Elbert - $400k
Total Starting Pitching - $18.8m

Broxton - $4m (2nd year arb)
Proctor - $3m (3rd year arb)
Brazoban - $2.5m (3rd year arb)
Meloan - $500k (3rd year)
Seanez Type - $1m
Seanez Type - $1m
McDonald Type - $500k
Total Bullpen - $12.5m

Nomar - $1.25m (part of deferred signing bonus)
Total Detritus - $1.25m

Total 2010 Payroll (estimated) - $68.45m

OK, now we have some money to spend! I'm guessing one starting pitcher and one OF (Andruw redux?).

2008-02-22 12:01:50
63.   Eric Stephen
I assumed Saito retired before 2010 (rather than come back to try for a Three-Peat). If he is still around, he would probably make $8 or $9m (2nd year arb).
2008-02-22 12:02:46
64.   cargill06
what about football's semi-arbitration process, why would NE not franchise Moss? the only way they sign him to a long term deal is if he takes well below market value, Jax has a bunch of inexpensive contracts and lots of cap room i heard they will give moss what he wants if he hits free agency.
2008-02-22 12:03:59
65.   cargill06
63 I assumed Saito retired before 2010 (rather than come back to try for a Three-Peat).

i love it, did you ask riles if you could use that term?

2008-02-22 12:05:03
66.   Eric Stephen
Just guessing, but maybe NE wanted to lower their cap figure for 2008 and by franchise tagging Moss his 2008 figure would be higher. Moss seems to want to play there, and especially now still has something to prove since they didn't win it all.
2008-02-22 12:05:04
67.   silverwidow
I predict K-Rod and Orlando Cabrera will be our closer and SS in 2010, respectively. Just a gut feeling.
2008-02-22 12:09:02
68.   Eric Stephen
If K-Rod is our closer in 2010, he'll be our closer in 2009 since we would have to sign him next year.
2008-02-22 12:10:29
69.   cargill06
66 well it doesn't make sense espically since they didn't pick up stallworths option, i'm not sure what moss would make if you franchise him, but his cap number last year was 3.1 and stallworths cap number last year was 3.75, so if you franchise moss and it comes to 6.85 or less, your cap # will go up.

i'm assuming T.O. is the highest paid WR but i don't know the other behind him

2008-02-22 12:14:44
70.   ibleedbloo
62 The most disturbing thing about the list is there are two "Seanez Type" in the bullpen. The 6th inning will never be safe again.
2008-02-22 12:16:01
71.   cargill06
a wr franchise tag is 7.85 million
2008-02-22 12:18:37
72.   ibleedbloo
67 Orlando Cabrera? Hu is probebly as good as OC is right now, let alone Hu's year at 25 compared to OC's at 35.

And Johnny Brox will be our closer in '10

2008-02-22 12:20:25
73.   silverwidow
72 Believe me, I want Hu and Broxton in those spots, but I'm thinking like Ned for a moment...
2008-02-22 12:21:32
74.   MC Safety
70 CC, Kershaw, Bills and company will have the 6th inning covered.
2008-02-22 12:25:05
75.   cargill06
74 that's a naive statement considering billingsley averages 5.5 innings per start and kershaw appears to be of the same mold.
2008-02-22 12:26:44
76.   ibleedbloo
73 Thinking like oxymoron?
2008-02-22 12:28:09
77.   Dodgers49
23 Good to see this statement from Torre:

>> Torre says it will create more versatility for a guy who is out of minor-league options and a virtual lock to make the club as a fifth outfielder. <<

2008-02-22 12:29:10
78.   fanerman
73 That may be irrelevant the way the McCourts chug through GM's. I kid. I'm willing to give Ned the benefit of the doubt. He did okay this off-season.

75 I don't think he meant for anyone to take that comment that seriously.

2008-02-22 12:29:16
79.   Eric Stephen
Right, and pitchers never develop before age 25.
2008-02-22 12:31:08
80.   cargill06
79 well that's a lot of devolping to ask for in a year.
2008-02-22 12:31:28
81.   Eric Enders
75 Kershaw... so because a guy isn't going deep into games when he's a 19-year-old kid, he'll never be able to?

And you're calling other people naive?

Ever heard of pitch counts for minor leaguers?

2008-02-22 12:31:34
82.   Eric Stephen
2010 is two years away.
2008-02-22 12:31:36
83.   bhsportsguy
75 Again, be careful make early assumptions based on small samples, for instance last year, when you take out his first two starts (where he was on a strict pitch count and his last start where he got taken out in the 2nd inning to get some other guys some work) he started 17 games and pitched 103 innings or slightly more than 6 innings a start.

Kershaw is also on a strict pitch count and not many low-A guys throw huge innings per game.

2008-02-22 12:31:48
84.   cargill06
oh i'm sorry you're talking about 2010
2008-02-22 12:32:30
85.   fanerman
You all realize you're talking about who's pitching in the 6th inning in... 2010, right?
2008-02-22 12:33:36
86.   bhsportsguy
83 I was referring to Chad if you are just picking up the thread now.
2008-02-22 12:33:45
87.   cargill06
85 i'm pretty sure it isn't a rule 8 violation
2008-02-22 12:34:56
88.   fanerman
87 Oh I know. Just making sure everybody's on the same page. And it's 2010, so, a lot can happen between now and then.
2008-02-22 12:35:02
89.   cargill06
81 yes, and yes

guys with high walk rates and high K rates usually don't go as long as most pitchers.

2008-02-22 12:35:50
90.   cargill06
89 i answered questions #2 and #3 not #1 and #2
2008-02-22 12:35:59
91.   Eric Stephen
It's fair to assume Chad was also taken out of his final because he was awful and couldn't throw strikes. However, even with that start (and removing the first two as they were "stretch your arm out from the bullpen" starts), he was at 104.1 IP for 18 starts, or right at 6 IP per start anyway.
2008-02-22 12:36:42
92.   MC Safety
75 That's pretty hilarious.
2008-02-22 12:38:28
93.   Eric Enders
89 That's true. But there's not much reason to believe the Minotaur will have a high walk rate. In his two minor league seasons, he's had one with absolutely superb control and another with slightly worse than average control.

But the key thing to keep in mind is he's 19. That really can't be said enough. Nineteen-year-old pitchers improve. Especially in the control department.

2008-02-22 12:40:31
94.   Dodgers49
61 Service time is days spent on the 25-man roster or MLB DL, which is why Scott Boras was fighting for Tony Abreu to be on the DL rather than optioned down to AAA.

Does anyone know the final resolution to this disagreement? I remember reading that Boras was protesting Ned's decision not to place Abreu on the Major League Disable List. Also that Abreu had an operation during the off season for a sports hernia. But I've not seen anything in writing whereby Abreu was retroactively placed on the Major League DL for service time purposes. What happened?

2008-02-22 12:40:42
95.   MC Safety
88 I was trying to follow Jon and Eric with the optimistic prediction thingy.
2008-02-22 12:41:36
96.   Eric Stephen
guys with high walk rates and high K rates usually don't go as long as most pitchers

C.C. Sabathia averaged 4.48 BB/9 in the minors through age 19. He led the majors in IP last year at age 26, and has averaged 6.42 IP/start in his career.

Kershaw has averaged 4.08 BB/9 in the minors through age 19.

Pitchers, especially really good ones, have a tendency to improve when they're 19.

2008-02-22 12:48:55
97.   Eric Enders
Okay, let's look at C.C. Sabathia, since he's a topic of conversation lately. Sabathia, being a hard-throwing left-hander who split his age 19 season between Class A and AA, seems a good comparison for Kershaw.

Sabathia walked 4.44 batters per nine innings. Kershaw was at 4.94. Sabathia's better, but it's fairly close. Of course, Sabathia is now probably the best control pitcher in all of baseball. And with 241 innings pitched this year, it's fair to say he goes pretty deep into games.

2008-02-22 12:50:41
98.   Eric Enders
Once again, I'm not even the first guy named Eric to make the same obscure point. Sheesh.
2008-02-22 12:50:44
99.   Jon Weisman
94 - I asked about it during the minicamp in January and the impression I got was that Boras was no longer pressing it, but perhaps Boras was just preoccupied with other issues. The Dodgers seemed like they had forgotten about it.

I think at some point we might hear about a resolution to this, but it might be that people on both sides are ready just to put it behind them.

2008-02-22 12:55:33
100.   natepurcell
Randy, come back to Minnesota!!!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-02-22 12:56:54
101.   Jon Weisman
For fans of unscientific polls about Dodger third basemen:

2008-02-22 12:57:35
102.   El Lay Dave
What will happen in 2010? Something wonderful.
2008-02-22 12:57:47
103.   Dodgers49
99 Thanks. Boras isn't the type to forget so I suspect we haven't heard to last of it. :-)
2008-02-22 12:59:12
104.   El Lay Dave
Pitchers, especially really good ones, have a tendency to improve when they're 19.

From a mound in a tucked-away corner of Vero Beach, Greg Miller nods at you. (Yes, yes, injury, I know.)

2008-02-22 12:59:14
105.   fanerman
101 Time to Dodger-Thoughts-affect that poll...
2008-02-22 12:59:52
106.   Jim Hitchcock
Has anybody read `No Country for Old Men? I'm wondering if I should read it before seeing the movie, or the other way around.
2008-02-22 13:00:23
107.   Eric Enders
102 I don't think we'll be trading for Adam Dunn, since 2010 is The Year We Make Contact.
2008-02-22 13:01:11
108.   Jon Weisman
Congrats to Lindsay Vonn (nee Kildow):,1,4466621.story

2008-02-22 13:01:33
109.   Eric Stephen
I meant to write "really good fictional ones"! :)
2008-02-22 13:01:43
110.   Jon Weisman
106 - Alex Belth of Bronx Banter read it and wrote a piece about the movie and film a couple months back.
2008-02-22 13:03:40
111.   cargill06
96 i hope he does progress like CC, but i would have to believe that type of scenerio is pretty rare.
2008-02-22 13:03:51
112.   madmac
I tend to think that Bills will improve his IP/start. A lot of things factor into a young guys IP/start than just BB. Having the trust of your manager for one. I thought by the end of the year Bills was our most reliable starter.
2008-02-22 13:06:51
113.   bhsportsguy
Wow, there is another way to handle the generational gap.

2008-02-22 13:06:54
114.   El Lay Dave
Regarding Ryan Howard, is the arbitrator entirely to blame? He only gets to pick from Howard's number and the Phillies. Is some blame to be laid at the feet of the Philadelphia front office for coming in with $7 million as their offer? Was that high enough? Do they have an open-and-shut case if they offer Cabrera's number, the aforementioned $7.4 M?

Or has the arbitrator determined that Howard's value is > $8.5 M and, therefore, Howard's number is closer? (In which case, the arbitrator has probably overvalued Howard.) I still wonder if the Phils had to go much higher to be closer to the arbitrator's perception of Howard's true value.

2008-02-22 13:07:55
115.   cargill06
112 that's a good point, but i believe he was on a pretty typical pitch count as most ML pitcers and as someone stated if you take away his first 2 starts he was over 6.0 IP/start
2008-02-22 13:09:19
116.   Jim Hitchcock
110 Thanks, Jon...I'll hunt it down.
2008-02-22 13:10:20
117.   El Lay Dave
107 But does that then mean Juan Pierre is still around? He makes an awful lot of contact.
2008-02-22 13:11:36
118.   Eric Stephen
You're right. The Phillies may have won if they offered $8m instead of $7m.
2008-02-22 13:13:05
119.   Eric Enders
113 I think Dylan Hernandez does a good job, but you have to love the delicious irony in this sentence.

"Kemp, the 25-year-old right fielder with a reputation for being cocky and a knack for making mistakes..."

2008-02-22 13:14:35
120.   El Lay Dave
113 Dylan H. is trying to bridge that gap artifically. Or does he know something we don't about Matt Kemp's birth certificate?
2008-02-22 13:15:23
121.   old dodger fan
112 From July 1 thru the end of the year Bills made 18 starts. He averaged 5.80 IP per start and his ERA was 3.02.
He went 7 or more innings 6 times; 6 innings 3 times and 5 to 5 2/3 innings 7 times. His other 2 starts were 4 1/3 and 1 1/3.
2008-02-22 13:15:58
122.   El Lay Dave
Somehow, I knew someone named Eric would beat me to the punch on that, and with more power behind it.
2008-02-22 13:18:51
123.   Eric Enders
Another interesting thing about 113 is that they used a picture of Jones next to LaRoche. It was the wrong LaRoche, but still.
2008-02-22 13:21:54
124.   madmac
115 there are pitch counts and also a manager's belief that a pitcher can get himself out of an ugly situation. seemed like it took Bills a couple innings to get in sync in a lot of early starts. late in the season he seemed much more comfortable. learn to trust his stuff as well as his catcher. I think it's pretty safe to expect 6 innings out of Bills. Penny is the one who scares me.
2008-02-22 13:29:30
125.   madmac
121 right about 6 IP/start. drop his worst and best start and he's 6+.
2008-02-22 13:30:37
126.   regfairfield
118 Even so, proving Ryan Howard is worse than Miguel Cabrera shouldn't be that hard.
2008-02-22 13:32:10
127.   Eric Enders
The only regular season game I've seen Billingsley pitch in person, he pitched a complete game. Maybe I just need to go to more games.
2008-02-22 13:35:12
128.   old dodger fan
127 You were in Houston?
2008-02-22 13:36:23
129.   Eric Enders
128 I was in Houston.

The other two games in that series were a lot worse.

2008-02-22 13:36:36
130.   bhsportsguy
127 He's a lot closer to Houston than a lot of us.
2008-02-22 13:36:51
131.   Bluebleeder87
I remember that game, didn't he almost have a complete game shut out.
2008-02-22 13:38:24
132.   madmac
127 maybe Bills can have it written into his contract that the dodgers cover all of your expenses and tickets for you to be at each of his starts
2008-02-22 13:38:25
133.   Eric Enders
131 Lost it with two outs in the ninth.
2008-02-22 13:41:39
134.   old dodger fan
127 My daughter has seen 4 Dodger games in 4 different stadiums. Dodgers are 4-0. I think they should pay her to go to all the games. Of course I'd have to go along to escort her.
This year she will see her 5th game in her 5th stadium.
2008-02-22 13:42:38
135.   bhsportsguy
Speaking about Scott Boras, he might be busy with Theo this year since Manny Ramirez just hired him as his agent.
2008-02-22 13:43:25
136.   El Lay Dave
126 Maybe the Phils presented their case poorly to boot.
2008-02-22 13:45:37
137.   old dodger fan
136 It must be difficult from a team standpoint to argue that one of your best players isn't really that good.
2008-02-22 13:45:45
138.   MC Safety
I was at the game Bills threw 8 shutout innings against Arizona only to lose 1-0 on a Chris Snyder dinger. Stupid Doug Davis.
2008-02-22 13:47:10
139.   cargill06
134 where has she been and where is she going this year? i've been to petco, edison, chevez and going to coors this year so i'll tie her.
2008-02-22 13:51:24
140.   old dodger fan
139 She has been to Dodger Stadium, Atlanta, Baltimore (inter league); and RFK in DC. This year we will go to the new stadium in DC for 1 or 2 of the Dodger games in August. If she goes 5-0 or 6-0 I think that's a big enough sample size to lobby for free tix. What do you think?
2008-02-22 13:53:09
141.   Eric Enders
Which of the following would be the best value bet?

Odds of winning NL MVP Award, 2008

Russell Martin 40:1
Matt Kemp 60:1
Andruw Jones 75:1
Brad Penny 75:1
Chad Billingsley 100:1
Jeff Kent 100:1
James Loney 100:1
Takashi Saito 100:1
Rafael Furcal 125:1
Hiroki Kuroda 150:1
Derek Lowe 200:1
Nomar Garciaparra 350:1
Andy LaRoche 350:1
Juan Pierre 400:1
Andre Ethier 500:1
Jason Schmidt 500:1
Jonathan Broxton 750:1
Clayton Kershaw 750:1
Delwyn Young 750:1
Tony Abreu 1,000:1
Chin-Lung Hu 5,000:1
Hong-Chih Kuo 5,000:1
Mark Sweeney 7,500:1
Scott Proctor 10,000:1
Gary Bennett 50,000:1
Yhency Brazoban 50,000:1
Ramon Martinez 50,000:1
Jason Repko 50,000:1
Rudy Seanez 50,000:1

2008-02-22 13:53:32
142.   El Lay Dave
137 But the argument is more like he's really good, but not quite Miguel Cabrera good. Or he's really good, about Cabrera's equal, so Cabrera-like money is appropriate.
2008-02-22 13:54:55
143.   Marty
141 I think Loney
2008-02-22 13:55:32
144.   El Lay Dave
141 Loney.
2008-02-22 13:56:11
145.   El Lay Dave
143 vs. 144: I am going to be punch-drunk by the end of the day.
2008-02-22 13:56:40
146.   cargill06
141 i'd have to go with kemp, the raw ability is there he is the type of guy that if he gets on enough of a roll could get close to 40HR and 25 SB's aren't out of the qeustion, maybe sneak a 300+ BA too.

where did you get those #'s from?

2008-02-22 13:56:44
147.   old dodger fan
141 Furcal followed by Andruw but I hope it is Schmidt.
2008-02-22 13:58:57
148.   regfairfield
If someone gives you 10,000 to one on anything you take it.

I'd say Furcal.

2008-02-22 13:59:31
149.   Eric Enders
146 From my disturbed imagination.
2008-02-22 13:59:42
150.   cargill06
148 you would put $10 on scott proctor to win NL MVP????????????????????????????????????????//
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-02-22 14:00:38
151.   regfairfield
I'll be a very rich man if John Cougar Mellencamp wins an Oscar.
2008-02-22 14:00:56
152.   cargill06
149 oh the only vegas line i can find so far for player regular season props so far is most regular season HR's the only dodger listed is andruw jones at 60-1
2008-02-22 14:02:45
153.   Jon Weisman
Tyler Jason Repko was born at 4:54 p.m. yesterday.
2008-02-22 14:04:26
154.   underdog
I'm sure you'll be interested to know that Dave Roberts would be unhappy to be part of a platoon.

Rajai Davis + Dave Roberts = makes me appreciate Ether + even Pierre that much more.

2008-02-22 14:05:18
155.   Dodgers49
Fantasy Baseball starting pitcher flops:

Brad Penny, Los Angeles Dodgers

>> Although Penny's second-half drop in production wasn't as bad as many owners feared, the fact that he walked 39 hitters against 53 strikeouts while allowing a composite .281 BAA leaves me a little uneasy. <<

Jason Schmidt, Los Angeles Dodgers

## I'm reticent to join the parade until we get deeper into the spring. First, the surgery undergone by Schmidt last season was by no means minor. Will it necessarily translate into an immediate return of the velocity that had dropped off so precipitously? Additionally, Schmidt was already two years removed from his dominant 2004 season when the Dodgers opened up their wallet and had seen a drop in his strikeout rate with an increased walk rate in his final year in San Francisco. ##

2008-02-22 14:05:46
156.   Eric Enders
Orel Hershiser to play poker in TV event
2008-02-22 14:06:47
157.   natepurcell
If someone gives you 10,000 to one on anything you take it.


2008-02-22 14:08:12
158.   Eric Stephen
This may sound forward and wholly inappropriate, but I'd like to take your daughter to Petco Park with me this season so I can break my 9 game Dodger losing streak to the Padres.

Dodgers are 6-19 in San Diego with yours truly in attendance.

2008-02-22 14:11:23
159.   Eric Enders
I always thought the Kevin joke would have been better with somebody other than John Mellencamp. The odds for Mellencamp are probably a lot better than 10,000:1. He's still writing lots of songs, and Dylan and Springsteen have won Oscars, so you never know.
2008-02-22 14:13:55
160.   regfairfield
159 I assumed he meant for best actor.
2008-02-22 14:14:00
161.   El Lay Dave
Eric Stephen - for some reason, although I post at True Blue, I can't comment on your diary. You have my batters' guesses from earlier, here are the pitchers:

Penny 3.65 1.31
Billingsley 3.60 1.32
Lowe 3.75 1.27
Kuroda 3.95 1.34
Schmidt 4.20 1.40
Loaiza 4.85 1.50
Kuo 5.50 1.60
Saito 2.25 0.95
Broxton 3.00 1.15
Beimel 4.10 1.32
Proctor 3.60 1.29
Seanez 4.25 1.42

2008-02-22 14:17:26
162.   kinbote
141 I'm trying to think of a scenario in which Rudy Seanez wins the NL MVP, but they all involve catastrophic natural disasters (perhaps multiple ones).
2008-02-22 14:17:54
163.   Eric Stephen
Should I email you the prediction results, or just post them in my True Blue Diary?
2008-02-22 14:18:48
164.   regfairfield
163 Start a new one so I can move it to the front.
2008-02-22 14:26:21
165.   Dodgers49
146 141 i'd have to go with kemp, the raw ability is there he is the type of guy that if he gets on enough of a roll could get close to 40HR and 25 SB's aren't out of the qeustion, maybe sneak a 300+ BA too.

I find it surprising that you think Kemp capable of hitting a many as 40 home runs and stealing 25 bases in 2008 and yet you were willing to include him in a trade for two years of Eric Bedard.

Full Disclosure: Matt Kemp is my favorite player. :-)

2008-02-22 14:27:30
166.   fanerman
165 I think it's a Matt Kemp fact somewhere that Matt Kemp is everybody's favorite player.
2008-02-22 14:29:44
167.   cargill06
165 he's capable but if i had to guess, i'd say .280/.325/.500 he was asking best value, and kemp is the only guy on that list capable of filling up the stat sheet.
2008-02-22 14:31:23
168.   cargill06
165 just like if you a pick a semi-long shot to win a title, you're not saying you think it's going to happen you're saying you think there is good value
2008-02-22 14:31:38
169.   regfairfield
Probably not the most impartial place to ask this, but who has the better year, Eric Byrnes or Matt Kemp? If Byrnes patience spike doesn't last, they seem pretty similar, except Byrnes as better defense and Kemp has a far higher ceiling.
2008-02-22 14:34:12
170.   Marty
153 Did he run over anyone?
2008-02-22 14:37:27
171.   cargill06
my die hard indian friend and i are going to bet on who has a better year this year between fausto and bills, i suggested era+ as the determining factor, he declinded. he than suggested best of 3 in wins, era, and whip, i declined because of the luck factor involved in wins. any suggestions on what we could determine the winner of our bet with?
2008-02-22 14:37:34
172.   trainwreck
I know for sure Eric Byrnes will have more flips this season.
2008-02-22 14:38:26
173.   Eric Enders
172 Kemp could have more flipoffs though.
2008-02-22 14:38:51
174.   trainwreck
If you go by strikeouts you should win for sure. Maybe k/bb ratio along with WHIP.
2008-02-22 14:39:46
175.   regfairfield
Actually, now that I think about it, that was a stupid question. Never mind.
2008-02-22 14:39:48
176.   Eric Enders
171 Strikeouts. I'd say Billingsley's extremely likely to have more strikeouts than Carmona.
2008-02-22 14:40:13
177.   Eric Stephen
I'll go with Byrnes, because I think most of baseball will get tired of his act simultaneously and his OBP will be buoyed by his Kinkadian spike in HBP!
2008-02-22 14:43:22
178.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm going to be so sad, watching Eric Byrnes be awesome, all year, while you lot get to see Pierre in LF 162 times. So sad. Try not to rub it in too much, I beg of you.
2008-02-22 14:53:07
179.   underdog
178 You mean, the same level of sadness as you will experience when Pierre is benched and Byrnes crashes into a wall and is lost for the season, and then the DBacks trade for Pierre?

Hey, all of that could happen, except for the last part.

2008-02-22 14:58:25
180.   Andrew Shimmin
You think walls can contain Eric Byrnes? Ask the East German bureaucrat who approved his visa on August 22nd, 1989 what Eric Byrnes thinks of walls. Eric Byrnes has written permission from Josiah Willard Gibbs to violate the laws of thermodynamics.
2008-02-22 14:58:32
181.   old dodger fan
158 Since she's 13 I'd need to come along. Being as we live on the East Coast it might be a pretty expensive way to break your streak.
2008-02-22 14:58:34
182.   cargill06
we're just basing it on era, he asked me to spot him .50 runs, he doesn't think that it's fair that if last year billingsley had a 3.02 era he would have a higher era+ than fausto... .5 runs crazy.
2008-02-22 14:58:58
183.   Sushirabbit
Jon, did you ever get the iMac working? 20 or 24? I'm with Andrew on the possibilities of heat issues, when the previous rendition of iMac came out, the first one's had some overheating issues but intel architecture should help that (those were still PowerPC) and I haven't heard anything about overheating in the new ones.
2008-02-22 15:01:56
184.   regfairfield
182 Seems fair, that's the standard translation from the NL to AL, but if you're going to do that you might as well use ERA+.
2008-02-22 15:02:28
185.   Andrew Shimmin
Should have looked that up. Hungary opened up August 23rd, but November 9th is when the wall officially came down. But since Byrnes was only a teenager, I think he should get some slack on taking the three months. I'm sure he'd get it done sooner, now.
2008-02-22 15:03:17
186.   cargill06
that's all im willing to spot him is era+, and fausto had a 3.06 era last year which was a 151 ERA+ is billingsley had a 3.02 ERA last year he would've had a 152 ERA+
2008-02-22 15:04:19
187.   cargill06
186 correction bills era would've had to be 3.01
2008-02-22 15:10:30
188.   bhsportsguy
Tiger Woods saves golf for the weekend with a 1-up win on the 20th hole.
2008-02-22 15:15:46
189.   Jon Weisman
183 - The new computer has been working from the start - the issue was transferring files from the old.
2008-02-22 15:29:22
190.   ToyCannon
I think Russel Martin is actually a good bet. Since the Dodgers are going to win the NL pennant, the MVP should come from our team. Russel Martin was being touted by the media guys last summer as an MVP candidate before the Dodgers went South. Since they will be in it until the end and we don't have any one player who will have a stand out season I think the best catcher in the NL stands a good chance of winning something the best hitting catcher in history never could.
2008-02-22 15:30:49
191.   Jon Weisman
189 - and figuring out how to get my e-mail going. I'm sure other stuff will come up, but I'm psyched about the huge 24-inch screen.
2008-02-22 15:33:40
192.   Sushirabbit
189, using the migration thingy? via network, or firewire?
2008-02-22 15:34:13
193.   cargill06
so accoarding to the adjusted era the difference between pitching in the al central and nl west is 0.04 era, detailed studies suggest that's true, but wouldn't you have to question that a little bit?
2008-02-22 15:35:51
194.   cargill06
193 i could see it's use in comparing era's (not E.R.A.'s) but not as an accurate comparison between leagues
2008-02-22 15:41:26
195.   Jon Weisman
192 - Yes, via firewire. It seemed like big files were crashing my old computer.
2008-02-22 15:43:59
196.   Dodgers49
Los Angeles Dodgers fantasy team preview

>> What is likely to decide this team's season are the strides made by young players Matt Kemp, James Loney and Chad Billingsley. <<

## Ethier's certainly trade bait, and more in demand than Pierre due to his age, but if there's one L.A. outfielder you don't look to draft, it's Ethier. ##

2008-02-22 15:49:53
197.   Andrew Shimmin
Could be haunted.
2008-02-22 15:57:55
198.   cargill06
i like it!!

2008-02-22 15:58:01
199.   Dodgers49
Dodgers open Minor League camp

>> In the eyes of some observers, the Dodgers were guilty of trying to rush promising young pitchers Edwin Jackson and Greg Miller.

It doesn't look like they'll be accused of that with Kershaw or Scott Elbert. <<

2008-02-22 15:59:42
200.   Kevin Lewis

Was your old computer even crashing in target disk mode?

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-02-22 16:13:47
201.   Gen3Blue
190 Cannon, I like your attitude.
2008-02-22 16:21:04
202.   Jon Weisman
200 - What does that mean? It was crashing when it was on the blue screen with the big Firewire symbol displayed.
2008-02-22 16:21:23
203.   Jim Hitchcock
156 Wow. I definetly want to see Hershiser vs. Helmuth.
2008-02-22 16:25:45
204.   Andrew Shimmin
Target Disk Mode:

Doing a little googling, it looks like the (old) computer should be able to tell you why it's shutting down. The "system.log" file (in the /var/log directory) should tell you if it's a heat problem. Unless I'm right about its being haunted, then there's no telling what it'll say.

2008-02-22 16:28:16
205.   Jon Weisman
204 - Okay, thanks - I'll try to look into that tonight. How do you get into the "/var/log directory"?
2008-02-22 16:36:19
206.   Kevin Lewis
yea, you were in target disk mode. Basically it was acting like an external hard drive. Weird that it would crash like that. My guess would be heat too.
2008-02-22 16:40:02
207.   Jon Weisman
So if heat is the problem, is there anything to be done about it?
2008-02-22 16:41:35
208.   Kevin Lewis
Sorry, I missed the early part of the conversation. What kind of computer is the old one?
2008-02-22 16:42:08
209.   Andrew Shimmin
Looks like the Mac version of file explorer is called Finder (which looks like it can be opened by clicking on the cubist-faces on your dock), so, it should be accessible through that. I'd think. Where's Zappala, anyway? Or scareduck or Bob. Mac people just don't care about each other the way PC types do, I guess.
2008-02-22 16:43:22
210.   Bluebleeder87

man, that's HUGE.
2008-02-22 16:44:52
211.   Kevin Lewis
I must be going insane. I am considering a visit to Best Buy tonight.
2008-02-22 16:46:10
212.   Andrew Shimmin
207- Opening the box and dusting it out with compressed air is good. Leaving the case open (just while you're doing the file transfers) could help air flow, too. I don't know how to do it with a Mac, but there should be some way of throttling back the CPU. Turning off hardware video acceleration can keep the heat down, even on non-video intensive applications.
2008-02-22 16:46:17
213.   Bluebleeder87

From what I remember (of the comments) it was a really old one.

2008-02-22 16:51:15
214.   Kevin Lewis

Hey, I am here. What are we trying to locate?

I was shocked to see that after 90 days of support with Microsoft, I would have to pay 55.95 for customer service/support through the Microsoft website. What is up with that?

If you look in your Applications | Utilities folder, you will find something called "Console". If you open that, it presents your "log files" to you in a viewer.

2008-02-22 16:56:57
215.   Kevin Lewis
Yea, I imagine the processor is heating up with the big file transfers. It depends on what type of Mac, but you could just open up the case whenever you do something like this to avoid the heat issue. Not the most convenient thing, but it works
2008-02-22 17:14:01
216.   Joe Pierre
2008-02-22 17:19:41
217.   underdog
You have to like this quote from Nomar, in article "Garciaparra prepares to wear any glove handed to him" via AP

>>"It's like being a kid," Garciaparra said. "I played everywhere. My favorite baseball player was Bugs Bunny. He played all nine positions in one game."<<

Nomar could've been our backup catcher over Gary Bennett! I'd be down with that.

2008-02-22 17:25:27
218.   Jim Hitchcock
Wow. Go to the WHAP site and search Mawhinney. Dude is trying to auction off his record/CD collection. 3,000,000 records and 300,000 CD's.

How much d'ya think UPS would charge to ship that to Nevada?

2008-02-22 17:44:36
219.   Sushirabbit
Yeah, what's the old Mac, I Silver G3 iMac? :-) Those are such a pain to get into. Why I say that is a lot of times on older PCs, meaning personal computers, I just yank out the drive and hook it up to a USB adapter. Hook that up and Bob T's your uncle. However, all the suggestions made should be tried. Did the drive act like it was having trouble before? Ie, grinding noises, slow to boot or anything?

On another tack it might be the firewire, which I think you could get around by hooking it up to a hub/router. And seeing if Network connection would work, I'm pretty sure you can do that. What was the old OS?

I have to go put the 6 yo to bed and most likely I will crash as well, if you want you can email me. Although it sounds like there might be more Mac tech savvy people around.

2008-02-22 17:51:35
220.   Jon Weisman
219 - It's an iMac from 2002.

New post up top.

2008-02-22 18:01:21
221.   Sushirabbit
I've been reprieved for a few.

That record collection got me remembering that I wanted to try and remember and write down every concert/music show I've been to. I was trying to think what was really the first and I'm sure it was something weird in say 7-9th grade. I saw Yvonne Elliman when I was 11 I think. After that the first thing I really remember was Eric Clapton's Slowhand tour. But not because of Clapton, Muddy Waters opened for him! I'd never heard of him then and he blew me away. Only thing close was John Lee Hooker much later. That really upped my opinion of Clapton that he would follow Muddy. I know Winter and Russell did simlar things, but that was so cool. I saw both those guys, too. (and Edgar, too).

2008-02-22 19:03:30
222.   oregon dodger
two of those whap guys put juno as the #1 movie of the year? indefensible. not even the best accidental pregnancy movie made last year. in fact, not even the second best. where's the love for: once, 3:10 to Yuma, The Lives of Others, or Lars and the Real Girl (which is in the same super-hopeful vein, but in my opinion, better all around)?
2008-02-23 16:54:56
223.   Joe Pierre
I still don't know anything about these Ithings.

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