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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Farewell, Vero Beach
2008-03-17 09:16
by Jon Weisman

In our dreams, we'll meet at the corner of Don Drysdale Drive and Vin Scully Way ...

Astros vs. Dodgers, 10:05 a.m.

Comments (196)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-03-17 09:57:07
1.   Kevin Lewis

It is quite something to try to get over to the 3rd St exit on the 110 South. People merging from the 101 make that a fun maneuver.

2008-03-17 10:05:15
2.   bhsportsguy
Well Bob and I were able to survive a Pac-10 tournament (much better than ASU did). Also, Staples needs a better coffee service.
2008-03-17 10:06:06
3.   underdog
The game is also broadcast on MLBTV, too, btw - literally by the crew. Don't know why LA TV isn't covering it (or is the radio - at least the only audio I see on is the Houston broadcast). But anyway it is on MLBTV if anyone has a sub and wants to watch. They had a nice if treacly Dodgertown history doc before the game.
2008-03-17 10:08:54
4.   JJ42
2 quick observations from Vero Beach yesterday:

- Nomar playing shortstop in infield drills on Practice Field 2 before the game. His wrist looks fine and has likely been taking his veteran status to sit out the games.

- Andre Ethier remarking to fans that he'd be happy to play for whatever team would start him. He specifically mentioned Texas a couple of times. I think he knows he's the better outfielder and the whole situation frustrates him. I personally think he feels unappreciated by the Dodgers.

2008-03-17 10:10:29
5.   underdog
Dodgers wearing green caps today, for St. Patty's. The bases are green, too. And lots of green in the crowd. No Shawn Green to be found, however.
2008-03-17 10:10:59
6.   Jon Weisman
4 - Is that the kind of thing that sours some people on Ethier - that he doesn't just give you the quote about putting the team first?
2008-03-17 10:12:23
7.   ToyCannon
Bob needs to pimp his March Madness Griddle contest more.

Is it really March Madness now that it will extend into April since they changed everything by a week. My brother was ticked off since he planned a vacation around the 1st week of the tournament only to find out it was a week later then normal. The good news is that he works for CNN so when the Tornado hit he was home in his basement instead of watching glass shards fly around his building.

2008-03-17 10:13:01
8.   underdog
Billingsley K's Tejada on a beauty offspeed pitch, gets a 1-2-3 inning in the first.

And now I have to go to work, alas.

2008-03-17 10:15:13
9.   Jon Weisman
Three outs on five pitches (no balls) for Billingsley in the first, according to Gameday.
2008-03-17 10:15:20
10.   underdog
Pierre's attempt for a bunt hit goes for nought. What a shock. "One of the best bunters in baseball," says the announcer. Yes, but not when bunting for a hit.
2008-03-17 10:16:18
11.   Ken Noe
6 JP's this great team guy supposedly, yet he suggested earlier that he'd waive his no-trade clause to be a starter elsewhere. It's a frustrating situation for both of them I'm sure, and we'll hear that frustration until Torre chooses a starter.
2008-03-17 10:16:18
12.   underdog
9 Not accurate. He got two ground balls but went 3-2 to Pence I believe. And was 2-2 to Tejada when Tejada struck out. But it was still a pretty efficient inning.
2008-03-17 10:17:12
13.   bhsportsguy
Another hit for Andre.
2008-03-17 10:17:31
14.   underdog
And Ethier lines a single up the middle for a solid hit. {Ahem} {cough}
2008-03-17 10:19:08
15.   bhsportsguy
NPR story on the last day at Dodgertown.

2008-03-17 10:20:23
16.   silverwidow
4 Hey, at least we don't have to worry about a long-term deal for Andre -- he's going to arbitration EVERY YEAR.
2008-03-17 10:21:22
17.   Doctor
It always seemed to me that Andre was one of the more level leaded and positive voices on the team (normally a very good "company man").
2008-03-17 10:21:28
18.   Reddog
If everyone here could take 10 minutes and write a brief letter addressed to Joe Torre, Dodger Stadium and express the thought that Ethier and Kemp should start ahead of Pierre, it might really make a difference. Getting a letter in the mail DOES have an impact, believe me. The rule of thumb in business is that one letter represents the thoughts of ten thousand people.

Torre really can choose to play the best players - he's at the start of a 3 year deal and has the authority.

Easy to enumerate the reasons why Ethier should start ahead of Pierre. The other big thing that could happen is that this could lead to a serious effort to trade Pierre.

2008-03-17 10:22:50
19.   Bob Timmermann
But I am promoting BOTH the contest and my talk at the Central Library.

There's only so much I can shamelessly self-promote!

2008-03-17 10:23:47
20.   DXMachina
It's kind of a shame that the game isn't being broadcast by any Dodger broadcasters.
2008-03-17 10:24:07
21.   Kevin Lewis
What should be the general outline of the letter? I know...I am lazy.
2008-03-17 10:25:31
22.   fanerman
18 21 Yeah. Posting a mailing address, person to address it to, etc., would be very helpful.
2008-03-17 10:27:06
23.   JJ42
[4, 6, 17] Andre is one of my favorite players on the Dodgers. He's very fan friendly - I think of all the players, he has been available to the fans each day and has signed the most autographs of anyone on the team. I think I just heard some of his frustration coming through - each game he has performed and has done extra work in the cages after each game. He's been very open with the fans at Vero and I think many appreciate his honesty. His performance is being noticed by everyone and the crowd has been a buzz every time he gets up to bat.
2008-03-17 10:27:11
24.   eusmus
18 I think it might be a better idea to send those letters to McCourt and Colletti, because I seriously doubt Joe Torre takes fan input into consideration when putting together a lineup.
2008-03-17 10:28:28
25.   Kevin Lewis

Seriously, I am ready to write the letter. I will stop whining and actually do something proactive as a fan.

2008-03-17 10:29:00
26.   still bevens
Anyone have any issues with gameday audio and firewalls? The only reason I have gameday is because I work in a horrible inner office with no radio reception and now I cant get the games at all.
2008-03-17 10:31:25
27.   GMac In The 909
25 I'll write one as well. Maybe I will start it with: "On behalf of 10,000 other loyal Dodgers fans ... "
2008-03-17 10:34:02
28.   Eric Stephen
It would be nice if the Pac-10 got seven teams in the NCAA tourney, but do I feel guilty about the over the back call Thursday? Nope! :)

Here's hoping USC can send home the Big 12 Player of the Year in consecutive years!

Putting my Trojan bias aside, I'm picking UCLA to win the whole shebang. Also, to ensure I don't win The Griddle pool, I have the Pac-10 winning all six first round games.

2008-03-17 10:36:31
29.   Bob Timmermann
You just don't want the Oregon State t-shirt do you?
2008-03-17 10:40:54
30.   Ken Noe
It's not just those internets people now. Lasorda's pushing for Ethier and Tony Jackson is reversing himself. How long before Plaschke jumps on the bandwagon besides Tommy? We've read rumors that the team itself wasn't keen on JP by season's end, and this spring can't help. NedCo and McCourt know full well who the fans want, and Torre wants to win to tick off the Steinbrenner boys. Ethier--who after all was also a NedCo pick-up--will be the starter at some point.
2008-03-17 10:46:22
31.   ToyCannon
I find it bizarre that Tony has watched Ethier for two years and Juan Pierre for one year and yet until two days ago still felt JP was the best option in left field. Now your telling me that a guy who is a baseball beat writer is changing his tune based on spring training numbers?
2008-03-17 10:51:13
32.   Eric Stephen
I don't think Jackson changed his tune. He merely said that appears there are 3 OF fighting for two spots. I'm sure he still feels JP is the better choice. In Jackson's blog post the other day, he even said "I'll save admitting I was wrong for sometime during the regular season."
2008-03-17 10:51:55
33.   regfairfield
30 Judging by the sample size of "guys sitting around me at Spring Training" lots and lots of people are style excited about having two rabbits at the top of the lineup.
2008-03-17 10:51:55
34.   Eric Stephen
Jon's not going to like who I picked to lose in Round 2.
2008-03-17 10:52:41
35.   Disabled List
Dear Mr. Torre,

I don't mean to be presumptuous, given that you are a 4-time World Series winning manager, but I thought I'd offer you a little advice on your current outfield dilemma. Although you might think I'm just some crank like the callers on sports talk radio, I assure you I'm far more intelligent than that horde. For one thing, your receipt of this letter proves I can read and write. Also, I frequent "blogs" on the internet, so I know things like what "OPS" stands for. I also do very well in fantasy baseball.

You have four outfielders for three positions. This is a problem that us fantasy baseball players know a lot about. After lengthy debate and discussion, it has become clear to everyone in baseball - aside from your general manager and certain local sportswriters - who the best three are. Your starting outfield should be Mr. Jones, Mr. Kemp and Mr. Ethier. Starting these three players regularly will go a long way towards earning you a 5th World Series (not that you need me to tell you how to do that, since you've already won four, of course).

I've never met the man, but everyone tells me that Juan Pierre is such a wonderful guy, and it would pain you greatly to put him on the bench. It would also pain your GM, who gave Mr. Pierre a lot of money to NOT sit on the bench. This will require you to exercise the exceptional people-handling skills that allowed you to win four World Series titles. You will have to explain to Mr. Colletti that you would like to play the best players on your team, and you will have to explain to Mr. Pierre that he is not one of the best players on the team. It's a tough job, but that's why you get paid what you do. As well as I do at fantasy baseball, I don't have any people skills whatsoever. So I get paid squat.

Good luck, Mr. Torre.



2008-03-17 10:53:33
36.   underdog
Just tuned back in for a bit and saw the Astros got two runners on even though Billingsley pitched them well - one bloop hit on a nice pitch and then a drag bunt infield hit. Then a double play got runner home. So Bills was doing fine. Then two home runs, I only saw one of them, pitch was left up. So just like that he sort of fell apart, before recovering to strike out last batter. Basically two mistakes and he's down 3-1. But I'm not all that worried.
2008-03-17 10:53:42
37.   MC Safety
6 Why would he do that when he knows he can start with a bunch of other teams. I like his confidence. He shouldn't have to fake his happiness while his prime years are being squandered on the bench as a pinch hitter. Juan hasn't put the team first, so why should Ethier. Juan has said you respect his game or you don't, and he would be happy to go somewhere where they respected his game. Those aren't words that put the team first.
2008-03-17 10:55:57
38.   Jon Weisman
Tidbits from Diamond:

2008-03-17 10:56:00
39.   bhsportsguy
36 Furcal hit a HR, Ethier followed with a wind/high sky opposite field triple and now a walk.
2008-03-17 10:56:26
40.   Ken Noe
31 In Tony's partial defense, NedCo created the parameters of this spring "competition" and JP is buckling under its weight, hitting a weak .208 as opposed to his .293 last year. He's not even the JP he was in '07. But I wonder if there's a second factor as well--Jackson did include a vague reference to people in the organization coming around.
2008-03-17 10:57:12
41.   underdog
Yeah, to be fair, that Ethier triple was a bit of a gift. It was hit pretty far, but the wind caused havoc with it, and the glare too, Abercrombie completely lost it. Ethier showed some hustle to make that a triple, though.
2008-03-17 10:58:23
42.   bhsportsguy
Tommy, doing his thing with a hit and run call with Dewitt.
2008-03-17 10:59:37
43.   underdog
38 I really wish I hadn't read that. But don't want to violate rule 5 so I'll repress all memory of it. Plus, he's the Minotaur! And he's young. And he's from Texas. I forgive you, Minotaur.

Young singles in a run.

And underdog needs to get some actual work done. Ciao.

2008-03-17 10:59:37
44.   bhsportsguy
Repko might be the best ST player the Dodgers have had in a 10 years.

But remember, its Spring Training.

Oh, game tied 3-3.

2008-03-17 11:00:54
45.   JJ42
41 Hustle, Hard-worker, Nice guy = Andre Ethier. Someone needs to write a story about him to end Pierre's monopoly on those adjectives.
2008-03-17 11:01:00
46.   bhsportsguy
43 Hey, he would not be a the top of my list but he is the President and if I ever got an invite, I would go.

I liked his comment about John Wooden though. Nice comeback kid.

2008-03-17 11:01:17
47.   Bluebleeder87
Looks like I picked the wrong year to stop sniffing WD-40...
2008-03-17 11:01:34
48.   Ken Noe
44 I'm perfectly happy if Repko is the fourth outfielder, as long as Ethier is the third one.
2008-03-17 11:01:46
49.   bhsportsguy

Gary Bennett is no RJ.

2008-03-17 11:02:29
50.   Jon Weisman
37 - Because part of the reason Pierre starts is his perceived niceness, however true or not.

Confidence and publically putting the team first aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not saying what Ethier should do, but in the context, I'm not sure it does him any good to talk about where he'd rather play.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-03-17 11:04:28
51.   Bob Timmermann
Remember that for a 19-year old, George Bush has been president for much of the time that a person has been aware of politics.

Richard Nixon filled that role for me.

That could explain a lot.

2008-03-17 11:06:39
52.   bhsportsguy
51 First person I voted for the President was not Ronald Reagan.
2008-03-17 11:07:34
53.   Sushirabbit
"it has become clear to everyone in baseball - aside from your general manager and certain local sportswriters - who the best three are."

...Kemp, Ethier, and Repko

2008-03-17 11:09:45
54.   Sushirabbit
53 Should've added the Tongue-in-cheek emoticon.

There's really no doubt in my mind that Repko would be better than Pierre, though.

2008-03-17 11:13:55
55.   underdog
54 Yah, that's what I've been saying. Jones, Kemp, Ethier - then Repko and Young. That's a great 3 + 2 outfield rotation. Pierre to the Tigers, make it happen Ned.

51 Very true. (I was born under Nixon, and then saw Ford, Carter and Reagan...) It's just that when I was 19, the president was the first GB, and I definitely don't recall wanting to have dinner with him. But whatevah. He's the Minotaur.

2008-03-17 11:15:14
56.   Sushirabbit
Catching up abit, I wonder what people's thoughts on whether or not strength of schedule matters for the tournament. If you look at Tennessee's RPI, Pomeroy, just the number of opponents in the tournament, I can see their argument for being a #1 seed. (I don't really care, they should have one the SEC tournament if they wanted to be #1, and I personally think it's better this way). What's interesting is that AD Mike Hamilton is hinting that he will change TN's scheduling because of this. That may just be hot air, but if they can't get seeded #1 this year, when would they?
2008-03-17 11:21:42
57.   Improbable88
RBI Ethier! 3 for 3.
2008-03-17 11:22:25
58.   Improbable88
SB Ethier! 1 for 1
2008-03-17 11:22:58
59.   bhsportsguy
Pierre 3-2 pitch, grounded out.
Furcal-lined a triple down the RF line
Ethier-hard ground ball through a drawn in infield for the RBI single, Ethier steals second but a good throw could have made it close.
2008-03-17 11:23:49
60.   Ken Noe
Meanwhile, Bills is not having a Pitbull day.
2008-03-17 11:24:34
61.   madmac
For you Lost fans
2008-03-17 11:25:25
62.   Marty
I seem to have Memphis beating Kansas in the final. Duke knocks UCLA out of the final four.

But what do I know about basketball?

2008-03-17 11:29:16
63.   MC Safety
50 I think he starts because Ned truly loves speed. He actually thinks Juan is valuable, the niceness is an added bonus for Ned's love of character guys (I don't know how Furcal, Loaiza, Proctor, and Bennett fit into that, but that's for another day.)

I don't see how it does him any harm though. The guy is good and he knows it. He also knows he has an uphill battle to beat out JP. Ned has said it multiple times, Juan did what he was supposed to do. Where does that leave Kemp and Ethier? Those guys are ready to start, are they supposed to just remain quiet for the sake of Ned?

2008-03-17 11:29:40
64.   GMac In The 909
61 Thank you. Now that song will be stuck in my head all day.
2008-03-17 11:29:59
65.   Bill Crain
That letter should be signed "Lazlo Toth"
2008-03-17 11:34:52
66.   Jon Weisman
63 - "Those guys are ready to start, are they supposed to just remain quiet for the sake of Ned?"

Some would call that being a good employee and say that that counts for something. Especially given what happened last fall, I wouldn't dismiss the importance of that out of hand.

2008-03-17 11:37:56
67.   bhsportsguy
Chad's goes 5, probably will stop here, then pitch over the weekend in AZ and perhaps in Dodger Stadium on Friday March 28th, that would line him up to pitch Game 3 in Dodger Stadium.

Though I wonder, do you save Chad to pitch the first game at Petco and let Kuroda make his first appearance against the Giants after Penny and Lowe pitch.

2008-03-17 11:39:06
68.   bhsportsguy
67 I was wrong, I guess Chad will go one more.
2008-03-17 11:41:51
69.   ToyCannon
I think Andre would like to be traded at this point and couldn't care less what Ned thinks. He is in his peak earning years and sitting behind JP will only deflate his earning potential. He knows he's a starting outfielder and that he's better then the guy earning 9 Million. He also knows he won't get that payday by being labeled a 4th outfielder. If I was him I'd be speaking out every day until Ned had to trade just to keep peace in the clubhouse. He owes the Dodgers nothing, if they hadn't traded for him he'd be the starting LF in Oakland will on his way to a big payday.
2008-03-17 11:43:14
70.   berkowit28
Beimel in, though Billingsley batted. (?)
2008-03-17 11:46:01
71.   ToyCannon
That information ruined my day. I'm pathetic that way. Clayton now gets in line behind Eckstein.
2008-03-17 11:46:09
72.   regfairfield
70 Pitchers need to get some swings in too during Spring.
2008-03-17 11:47:04
73.   bhsportsguy
71 wait until Greg Brock reads that.
2008-03-17 11:47:07
74.   Neal Pollack
This situation seem to be reaching urgent crisis level, as far as these matters go. We need to stage an effective and intelligent "bench Pierre" campaign. The blindness of management continues to confound me.
2008-03-17 11:49:11
75.   bhsportsguy
I think the Astros have sent up all right handed batters (or at least 4 out of 6) so far.
2008-03-17 11:49:28
76.   Dodgers49
From the previous thread:

228 I haven't been following the spring training games too closely of late. When does Kershaw pitch again? Thanks.

Kershaw is slotted behind Kuroda so we should see both tomorrow.

2008-03-17 11:49:50
77.   Bob Timmermann
According to this nifty map:

it appears that Cornell has the longest trip of any team in the NCAA basketball tournament to play its opening round game.

It's 2302 miles as the crow flies from Ithaca to Anaheim. Gonzaga has to travel over 2100 miles from Spokane to Raleigh and USD has a slightly shorter distance from San Diego to Tampa.

2008-03-17 11:52:21
78.   CodyS
Go back to the 99 Yankees. They had Chad Curtis and Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee to play LF in addition to Paul O'Neill and Bernie Williams who were going to play every day. Joe is probably thinking along those lines. Those three split time more or less 1/3 each and the team won the world series. Despite Shane Spencer being thoroughly bad.
It seems like the wrong way to manage, but whatever. You could break out the W-L of the team by LF starter to find out if it actually hurt them.
2008-03-17 11:53:59
79.   ToyCannon
My Brother's wife is a graduate of Cornell. He is a graduate of George Mason. I think it is safe to say this is the 1st time that both schools have been in the same tournament. They were quite excited until they saw that Cornell got Stanford. GM can take out the Irish.
2008-03-17 11:55:46
80.   Jon Weisman
69 - Well, yeah - if he wants to get traded, then that's a different story.
2008-03-17 11:57:56
81.   MC Safety
66 Andre can't aspire to be a starter (through the fans who are essentially all he has) and be a company man at the same time?
2008-03-17 11:58:01
82.   Improbable88
2008-03-17 11:59:59
83.   berkowit28
Pierre now 0 for 4. Again.
2008-03-17 12:00:28
84.   Kevin Lewis

But what will I do with my Ethier jersey?

2008-03-17 12:02:12
85.   still bevens
76 Does that mean we get to see Loaiza in AZ on Thursday? Not too excited about that.
2008-03-17 12:02:13
86.   Sushirabbit
82 Someone needs to make that T-shirt.
2008-03-17 12:02:14
87.   Kevin Lewis
I knew I should have purchased a Martin one...rookie mistake :)
2008-03-17 12:03:19
88.   dzzrtRatt
38 I could be wrong, but I suspect there aren't many liberals among baseball players.

My guess is the politics of ballplayers works out like this:

75 percent -- completely apolitical
20 percent -- conservative
5 percent -- liberal

2008-03-17 12:03:19
89.   Kevin Lewis
Oh man, the lost theme song is in my head big time
2008-03-17 12:04:32
90.   MC Safety
88 What would you label Carl Everett?
2008-03-17 12:05:57
91.   underdog
Ouch. Sierra comes in and gives up a grand slam to JR House. Now 10-6.
2008-03-17 12:05:59
92.   Bob Timmermann
I did not know that Cornell's president at the time recommended David Starr Jordan to be the first president of Stanford. And that half the original faculty of Stanford came from Cornell.

The Cornell profs likely wondered what happened to all the gorges. Cornell's campus looks a lot like Springfield.

2008-03-17 12:06:05
93.   GobiasIndustries
2008-03-17 12:06:44
94.   Dodgers49
Dodgers: Who's on third?

2008-03-17 12:06:46
95.   Bob Timmermann
I would place the completely apolitical figure among baseball players at a much higher percentage.
2008-03-17 12:07:01
96.   fanerman
I think Andre is just understandably upset about everything and I wouldn't really make a big deal about it unless he really makes a big deal about it.

Hearing The Minotaur's political preferences has added a human element to the otherwise mythological figure. He's 19, so, I wouldn't hold his current political views as anything permanent.

2008-03-17 12:09:25
97.   Jon Weisman
From a Dodger press release:

Dodger Owner Frank McCourt said today that the "Dodgers will not leave Dodgertown; we will take Dodgertown with us to Los Angeles."

McCourt made the revelation (my emphasis) on the day of the club's final Florida home date in 2008. The club celebrated its 60th anniversary in Vero Beach, FL, this spring. ...

"As our family prepares to move from this neighborhood, it strikes us that we can incorporate so many elements of this place in our home in Los Angeles. After all, Dodger Stadium is Dodgertown, and for that matter, LA is Dodgertown."

Some elements may well move to the club's new Spring Training site in Arizona.

"Some elements may transfer well there, but, that said, Arizona has its own style, its own feel," McCourt said. "The copper and cactus and Camelback culture has a western feel all its own. We'll start a new history there, one that comfortably welcomes families who can make a five-hour drive or catch a one-hour flight.

"But the stories and the legends live in Dodgertown's lounge, dining room, photos, street signs, and even in the light posts with those baseballs on top. It would be wonderful to capture the friendliness, the spirit, and the love of the game that is inherent here and bring it home with us.

"It's a real estate opportunity, which I of course love. We can create a plan to make this happen before too long."

2008-03-17 12:10:39
98.   Dodgers49
85 76 Does that mean we get to see Loaiza in AZ on Thursday? Not too excited about that.

'fraid so. :-)

2008-03-17 12:17:10
99.   bhsportsguy
Here's a tool (from a familiar source) to aid during the tournament.

Bob, does this have your seal of approval?

2008-03-17 12:20:11
100.   ToyCannon
When my wife saw the Dodgertown street signs she wandered why they couldn't bring some of that to Dodger Stadium. Looks like it might happen in some form.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-03-17 12:22:33
101.   Andrew Shimmin
Frank McCourt is spending a fortune at the International Star Registry, declaring whole galaxies Dodgertown.
2008-03-17 12:23:29
102.   ToyCannon
Andrew will appreciate House hitting a grand slam.
2008-03-17 12:23:30
103.   Kevin Lewis
They need to be careful playing the Wii games. That could cause an injury.


2008-03-17 12:24:18
104.   Bob Timmermann
When O'Malley was offered to have a stadium built for him in Queens, he refused, in part, because he said his team was the BROOKLYN Dodgers and that Brooklyn was the identifier.

Then almost as soon as he moved out to L.A., he told everyone that the team would still be known as the Dodgers.

2008-03-17 12:24:51
105.   Sushirabbit
Yeah, everyone buys their own mythologies.
2008-03-17 12:25:59
106.   GMac In The 909
101 Plant Frank was already taken, so he went with Frankland. It has a nice ring to it.
2008-03-17 12:26:06
107.   underdog
Very nice inning for Proctor at least.
2008-03-17 12:27:44
108.   Bob Timmermann
That's it. I'm burning all my Joseph Campbell books.
2008-03-17 12:28:54
109.   berkowit28
80 I'm with ToyCannon here. Ethier doesn't want to be traded, he wants to play baseball. If the Dodgers are too stupid to play him even when he is clearly the far superior player, then of course he'd want to be traded in preference to sitting. So would I.

I'm afraid there's probably a businessman's rationale at work. If Pierre is demoted, his trading value goes down, and the Dodgers end up paying most of Pierre's salary for the duration of his contract, plus Ethier's when he moves into arbitration and is up for free agency (or they lose him then).

If they can just keep up the pretence for a while longer, they hope to get something in return when some other team is desperate for an outfielder. In the meantime, I still think that Ethier has made such a huge impression that he can't simply be banished, like Loney was, or just sit on the bench. He will be given a smaller proportion of starts than Pierre, but enough to make it totally obvious before June that he needs to be the main LF starter. It will happen.

2008-03-17 12:29:49
110.   Eric Enders
88 I'd probably estimate something more along the lines of 80/19/1.
2008-03-17 12:32:24
111.   dzzrtRatt
94 Are there editors in the Treasure Coast?

"Los Angeles Dodgers third baseman Nomar Garciaparra has played hislast game in Florida."

Uh, until April 29th, when the Dodgers open a series against the Marlins.

2008-03-17 12:33:05
112.   berkowit28
Pierre now 0 for 5. New record for ST this year?
2008-03-17 12:33:23
113.   underdog
Pierre goes 0-fer.

And who was that who hit a home run for the Dodgers right before him? I was watching with the sound off and couldn't tell - #96, who I thought was, uh, Kershaw? Was that DeWitt?

2008-03-17 12:34:31
114.   Dodgers49
Dodgertown blues: Time to say farewell

>> "This," Scully said before bidding an early farewell to Dodgertown on his way to China, "is where I stood in place and it seems like half the world came by -- players, coaches, managers, writers, broadcasters." <<

I wasn't aware that Vinny made the trip. It just didn't occur to me that he would take an 18-hour flight anywhere at this point in his life.

2008-03-17 12:34:53
115.   Eric Enders
Kershaw was given an actual big league number when he officially became part of big league camp.
2008-03-17 12:36:21
116.   Improbable88
2008-03-17 12:36:25
117.   gpellamjr
Andre Ethier: the master of the wind-aided HR.
2008-03-17 12:37:04
118.   Ken Noe
112 113 Back below the Mendoza line. Ethier meanwhile is now at .340.
2008-03-17 12:37:23
119.   bhsportsguy
114 He did not go, the story got it wrong. (I am guessing this but since only Charley and Rick were on the radio, why would Vinny go?)
2008-03-17 12:37:23
120.   berkowit28
Fircal gets his second triple of the game. And 3 for 5. This could make a big difference this year.

Now Ethier hits a HR, with 2 out (one of those Pierre, of curse) and puts the game 10-9 Marlins. Getting good.

2008-03-17 12:37:38
121.   underdog
Ethier just hit a two-run homer. {AHEM} {COUGH}

It was a bit wind-blown, didn't look like he got all of it but out it went.

Sure, it's spring training and all, but if today isn't Exhibit A I don't know what is.

2008-03-17 12:37:44
122.   Andrew Shimmin
The Dodgers' director of International Operations,Joseph Reaves, makes Baseball Prospectus's (free) quotes of the week feature.

2008-03-17 12:38:56
123.   gpellamjr
110 I think it really depends on whether we count Venezuelans. Liberal isn't the word, but I bet a very large proportion is extremely sympathetic to Chavez.
2008-03-17 12:39:29
124.   berkowit28
119 But Vinny was there. There was a presentation made to him last week, he spoke out there in the field, and he called a game.
2008-03-17 12:40:24
125.   underdog
124 In China? I don't recall that.
2008-03-17 12:41:48
126.   bhsportsguy
Ethier has made this a very public debate now. Prior to ST, it was certainly talked about here but now with Kemp and Ethier producing both with the bat and the glove and Pierre having a poor spring, it becomes harder to dismiss the idea of the 3 for 2 spots. (Andruw get saved because he makes more than JP plus he has power and CF cred).
2008-03-17 12:43:02
127.   bhsportsguy
124 I know Vin was in Vero and he and Jaime got presented something but I don't think he was in China.
2008-03-17 12:43:43
128.   kinbote
Coupla things:

1. Ethier's our starting LF. Torre can't be blind.

2. UofO Ducks got lucky to make the tourney. In my mind, they weren't deserving.


2008-03-17 12:45:41
129.   Disabled List
I couldn't care less about Kershaw's politics. He's not running for Congress.
2008-03-17 12:46:13
130.   berkowit28
124 Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, Vero. I didn't see anything about his being in China.
2008-03-17 12:46:51
131.   Ken Noe
118 Excuse me, JP .196, Ethier .354.

126 128 I agree, at this point he cannot be ignored, nor can Torre just give left field to a guy who is hitting below .200.

2008-03-17 12:48:24
132.   underdog
129 I think the Constitution strictly forbids mythical creatures running for office. Unless they weren't born mythical, but I think he was.

Not a great day for the Dodger pitching staff, other than Proctor. Crazy winds probably didn't help.

2008-03-17 12:48:30
133.   Sushirabbit
108 Prepare to be excommunicated by Moyers.
2008-03-17 12:48:33
134.   still bevens
Box score says the mystery home run hitter was Preston Mattingly. Hope his dad was there to see it.
2008-03-17 12:50:37
135.   Bob Timmermann
Clayton Kershaw is too young to run for Congress!
2008-03-17 12:52:02
136.   CodyS
I don't buy into the argument that sitting Pierre will hurt his trade value. The other 29 teams know who Pierre is. Their opinion won't change based on what the Dodgers think of him. So they will still offer whatever they would have offered. The Dodgers in a negotiation could say "if you want our starting left fielder, you have to give us x,y,z," but honestly nobody is going to fall for that. Pierre's value to another team is what it is, regardless of his playing time on the Dodgers.
2008-03-17 12:53:42
137.   bigcpa
136 I get that argument all the time in fantasy leagues. You want to trade me Sheffield??? But he's on your bench!!!
2008-03-17 12:54:22
138.   Bob Timmermann
Texas is also one of the few states that has an age requirement for state offices.

21 for the lower house of the legislature.
26 for the upper house.
30 for governor.

In California, you can run for governor when you're 18.

The youngest governor in any U.S. state or territory was Michigan's last territorial governor. He started on the job when he was 19. His name was Stevens J. Mason. He also died when he was 32.

So ends today's boring historical anecdote.

2008-03-17 12:55:03
139.   Dodgers49
115 Kershaw was given an actual big league number when he officially became part of big league camp.

Right. The last time I saw him I believe he was wearing #54. But I'm not absolutely certain if that is the correct number or not. I have short-term memory problems in my old age. :-)

2008-03-17 12:55:42
140.   Gen3Blue
Yeah must have been Mattingly!

and just to punctuate the discussion here, Ethier indeed.

2008-03-17 12:56:46
141.   Bob Timmermann
Actually Stevens J. Mason was just named Territorial Secretary at age 19. He didn't become governor until he was 22.
2008-03-17 12:56:59
142.   Eric Enders
136 I agree with that. Conversely, I think sitting Ethier would definitely impact his trade value, since we're expecting a team to trade for a guy who's never been more than a most-of-the-time platoon player. Every AB Ethier has goes further toward showing what type of player he really is, whereas Pierre's a known, established commodity who doesn't need to be shown off.
2008-03-17 12:57:52
143.   Eric Enders
Mattingly just upped his career home run total by 25%.
2008-03-17 13:00:49
144.   ToyCannon
Know it all
2008-03-17 13:01:12
145.   underdog
Cool beans, re: young Mattingly. I assume his dad is indeed gone from camp now? That's too bad, would've been nice for him to see it.

Btw, I'm sure all these individual pieces re: Pierre have been posted, but in case you missed 'em, here's MLBTraderumors on what people have been writing the past day:

2008-03-17 13:01:49
146.   ToyCannon
Does that mean that Preston's first spring training at bat resulted in a home run? How cool is that?
2008-03-17 13:02:05
147.   berkowit28
Russell Martin pinch hitting. 2 on.
2008-03-17 13:03:01
148.   berkowit28
Russ strikes out.
2008-03-17 13:03:58
149.   regfairfield
102 I don't have Jack Cust to get behind anymore, so House will have to do. I can't believe he can't find a job anywhere, even as a first baseman or pinch hitter.
2008-03-17 13:05:07
150.   underdog
Preston's up again with two on.

Man, he really does look like his dad.

Except, you know, a lot younger.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-03-17 13:06:23
151.   underdog
RBI single up the middle!

A dribbling seeing eye single, but a single nonetheless.

2008-03-17 13:08:34
152.   underdog
Bases loaded! Whoever #90 is - and he looks to be about 12 years old - drew a walk with a patient at bat. Furcal up.
2008-03-17 13:08:52
153.   berkowit28
D. Young, 1-2, 2 out, gets a hit, bats in a run. 12-10 Marlins.

Guess who's batting now? Chance to save the day... Pierre (I think it's Pierre, the announcers aren't saying) finally walks! Furcal up, bases loaded.

2008-03-17 13:10:03
154.   berkowit28
OK, Lasorda wants to win, pinch hit batter unknown for Pierre. Good for him.

But the Astors win (sorry about that "Marlins").

2008-03-17 13:10:30
155.   bhsportsguy
153 It wasn't JP, not sure who it was.

Furcal grounds out, Dodgers lose their "final" game at Vero 12-10.

2008-03-17 13:11:56
156.   underdog
154 "But the Astors win (sorry about that "Marlins")."

Formerly known as the Brigid O'Shaughnessys. ;-)

2008-03-17 13:12:30
157.   ToyCannon
Sounded like a fun game right up to the last pitch. Would have liked to have seen Preston's home run. He may never get a major league one.
2008-03-17 13:12:34
158.   Dodgers49
146 Does that mean that Preston's first spring training at bat resulted in a home run?

Yeah, I believe he is 1 for 1 so it would be his first official AB. I don't think it's his first plate appearance though. I seem to remember a box score where he pinch hit before and walked. But again, it could just be my imagination. :-)

2008-03-17 13:13:20
159.   Ken Noe
145 There are talks with the Jays and Tigers involving Pierre? That was news to me.
2008-03-17 13:13:42
160.   Retire 55
Too bad Ethier didn't get a chance to crush another one.

So long Vero, howdy Glendale!

2008-03-17 13:15:50
161.   regfairfield
159 Since both those teams have centerfielders, they probably didn't get very far.
2008-03-17 13:17:11
162.   Bluebleeder87
the dodger brass is literalry hurting the team & most importantly loyal fans with this nonsense that Pierre is the better option than Ethier, its beyond comprehension that Im lyterally thinking of changing my handle to SPEED KILLS in protest. #'s don't lie seeing the facts its just frustrating...
2008-03-17 13:23:24
163.   Humma Kavula
145 Why do people think that Juan Pierre, as a player, would not be suited well for the bench, even if you don't consider his paycheck? I, for one, think he's especially well-suited for the bench.
2008-03-17 13:24:00
164.   underdog
159 161 Some of the comments below that MLBTR thread were intelligent enough to read through, some interesting proposals, some ludicrous ones... of course it's all just fan conjecture. Would it be worth it to trade Pierre if it involved having to take back a Crede or Inge in return? Tough call.
2008-03-17 13:24:14
165.   Dodgers49
Coppin State seeks to add to historic run to NCAA tournament

According to my crystal ball Coppin State will crush Mount St. Mary's and then run the Tar Heels off the court in Raleigh. :-)

2008-03-17 13:30:19
166.   bhsportsguy
162 Calm down Blue. Opening Day is still 2 weeks away.

Again, the great thing is that Andre added some power (Vero Beach aided or not) to his game this spring and further demonstrated the difference between the two players.

Also, since I have not kept up with Boston, I wonder what is going on with Coco and Jacoby?

2008-03-17 13:32:45
167.   regfairfield
166 The Vero Beach aided thing is huge since it's the easiest park in baseball to hit home runs at. Combine this with less than ideal competition and you can see how almost anyone can start teeing off.
2008-03-17 13:33:58
168.   ToyCannon
Coco has been hurt all spring so he hasn't put up much of a defense.
2008-03-17 13:42:25
169.   Eric Enders
Great column by Joe Sheehan on how the Selection Committee, either intentionally or unintentionally, screws over the teams from non-BCS conferences.

Sheehan also ended up correctly predicting all 65 teams to make the tournament.

2008-03-17 13:48:03
170.   Daniel Zappala
165 It's a great story, but their schedule was night-and-day different in the 2nd half. Their early schedule they lost to Kansas State, Xavier, Ohio State, and Arizona State, along with a bunch of other teams. If they win the play-in game, they're toast against NC.
2008-03-17 13:55:46
171.   Axim
Has anyone heard anthing on the status of Elbert and Morris? It sure would help our pitching depth if those two came back into form.
2008-03-17 13:56:05
172.   Bob Timmermann
But Coppin State's coach is named Fang!


That's a name!

2008-03-17 13:57:26
173.   Daniel Zappala
172 That may be his name, but he'll soon be an historical anecdote.
2008-03-17 13:58:59
174.   Dodgers49
Lasorda helps fans, players say goodbye to Dodgertown

>> "Five guys in a room," Lasorda says. "The line for breakfast was out the door. I wrote home and told my parents I had dinner with Pee Wee Reese, Gil Hodges and Duke Snider. Well, I did. But they never talked to me." <<

2008-03-17 14:00:18
175.   Bob Timmermann
Fang and Coppin State have already won an NCAA tournament game as a 15 seed.

If I had a son, I'd name him Fang. Or at least use it as a middle name.

2008-03-17 14:04:28
176.   Dodgers49
Spring notes: Reggie Jackson benched

>> Jackson, a special adviser who also serves as a spring training instructor, was fined $250 by MLB for jogging onto the field in an attempt to play peacemaker during a brawl with the Rays in a Grapefruit League game Thursday. <<

2008-03-17 14:08:49
177.   wronghanded
Hello everybody!

I started a starting OF petition over on ItD in hopes that Ned will address what the fans want to see. If you all could keep a running tally of your votes it would be awesome and hopefully we'll get Ned back around to addressing this issue.

Starting OF petition update:

Jones, Kemp, Ethier: 18
Jones, Kemp, Pierre: 0
Jones, Ethier, Pierre: 0
Pierre, Ethier, Kemp: 0
Other: 0

This is as far as we've gotton over there, but there is definitely power in numbers so your participation is appreciated.

2008-03-17 14:09:39
178.   Daniel Zappala
175 See, you've got yourself an historical anecdote right there already! :-)
2008-03-17 14:10:36
179.   Daniel Zappala
175 And if you ever do have a son and name him Fang, I'll come to the baptism, christening, or tribal naming ceremony.
2008-03-17 14:11:10
180.   Bob Timmermann
And a boring one too! I think Jon should name the new kid Fang.

If we take up a collection, could we buy the naming rights?

2008-03-17 14:11:29
181.   regfairfield
177 Noble as the cause may be, I would hope any GM that did something because the fans said so would be immediately fired.
2008-03-17 14:14:09
182.   MC Safety
I can't wait for the next Tony Jackson post.
2008-03-17 14:14:11
183.   ToyCannon
Your losing your fangs.
2008-03-17 14:15:12
184.   ToyCannon
I think anyone with an email that has "shifty" in it can be bought for the right price.
2008-03-17 14:15:20
185.   wronghanded
181 I absolutely agree with that but if we get a large portion to participate, it can at least be a decent representation of the "involved" Dodgers fan and something to let Ned know that he's not fooling most of us.
2008-03-17 14:23:42
186.   underdog
And I definitely would worry about a manager who would make decisions based on what fans are clamoring for. Hopefully, Torre will make the right decision based on logic. :-)

But if you want to see a video of what I'll look like if the Dodgers do manage a Pierre trade, here it is:


2008-03-17 14:29:41
187.   Eric Enders
181 GMs do stuff because fans demand it all the time. For example, it's why Ned re-signed Nomar.
2008-03-17 14:31:09
188.   still bevens
187 We can also assign a fair amount of blame to JD Drew for that one, too. Nomar was coming off a 20 HR season and we 'needed' his power. JD Drew is the gift that keeps on giving.
2008-03-17 14:32:56
189.   Terry A
J.D. Drew is a witch. Burn him!
2008-03-17 14:33:36
190.   regfairfield
187 I think there's a difference between keeping a fan favorite around and doing something because the Internet said so, but I see your point.
2008-03-17 14:35:53
191.   Bob Timmermann
How do you know he's a witch?
2008-03-17 14:36:21
192.   still bevens
189 I think we can leave that responsibility in the capable hands of the people of Boston.
2008-03-17 14:37:31
193.   underdog
Well, we did do the nose.
2008-03-17 14:42:45
194.   Gen3Blue
186 That's just right.

191 He obviously weighs more than his volume in feathers and less than his volume in stone.

2008-03-17 14:46:06
195.   alex 7
Really, most of you don't believe that all this "Pierre may start" talk serves the purpose of keeping his trade value higher? At least in the minds of Ned and Torre?

For whatever reason (logic), I simply don't buy the idea that Torre will play Pierre over Ethier.

Torre's comments have been nebulous at best, and I think it's because he doesn't want to just come out and say that Ethier will start. Keeps them competitive, and keeps Pierre's price a bit higher.

I read the part about Pierre being what he is to other teams, regardless of whether he starts or not. However, I think an offer to a backup will be slightly lower than if that guy was starting. At least it should start lower, on the premise that the player isn't as valuable to the team.

2008-03-17 14:47:52
196.   Jon Weisman

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