Re 258 in the last thread, Karros was traded and left the Dodgers after he figured his status as a Beloved Fan Favorite should have saved him. He was petulant about his exit, and in the first year he was broadcasting, he wasn't shy about letting people know.

I really enjoy watching DeWitt at the plate.

It's TRON TRON TIME! This guy is now one of my favorites.

3 - ???

4 Translation: Troncoso is gonna pitch and I think he rocks.

"General manager Ned Colletti said he received a call from Pierre's agent asking for clarification of his role..."

The next call will come from his sweet, grey-haired mother who doesn't want anyone to be mean to her son.

1

I remember some bitterness by Karros but like the eagles song says "Anger is love disappointed" I don't hold anything against him for saying some of the stuff he said.

Best script for the 9th? Pee Wee gets the big hit despite Martin lining off his head this morning.

TRON....I love it....

Tronsformer just came to me...I like that too.....

He's gonna be great this year.

6 Do you have a link for that?

I think we need to come up with a cool Troncoso nick...

10 It's in Jon's post.

11. Good idea! Any suggestions? Mine is: Ramontron

5 - I was thinking maybe we were about to see Jeff Bridges ride a lightcycle onto the field or something.

9 RoboTron...Minotaur...Bison...Golden God...

10 -- it's in Jon's text above.

3+1!

Huh: a leadoff hitter who takes pitches.

17 - I think the Dodgers will need Trevor Hoffman's help for that.

Why send Peavy back out there? I don't get it.

Not how the script said it was supposed to go!

Man, Martin has been awful.

:(

!

Oh well, tomorrow is another day, this is Jake Peavy after all...

Shew!

22 - I shudder to think what would happen if Pierre was a catcher.

If Pierre's agent is contacting Ned after a mere 5 games, it's hard to envision this kind of platoon being sustainable. Team Player Pierre doesn't appear to be content to sit on the bench, and it's looking as if he'll ask to be traded if he's "only" starting 40% of the games.

That game was oddly un-painful. Peavy is like a no nonsense doctor who knows how to stick you quick and painless.

28 - Did we forget to say "thank you"?

Isnt a slumping Kemp still better than Juan Pierre?

And, how many games does one have to play to reason that Kemp is slumping?

29 ... sir, may I have another?

You might give some thought to adopting the "Where you can watch it" feature like Forum Blue & Gold does for game days, seeing as how the game might be on one of what, four or five different channels?

Jon Meloan starts for Vegas tonight.

30 - Is he? The question is mooted since Pierre is playing down to his usual, miserable standards. But what we would consider a "good day" from Pierre (say, 3 for 4 with a walk and two steals, with no chances in the field to donate extra bases) is probably better than Kemp going 0 for 5. Absent a crystal ball, I'd rather see Kemp every day of the week than Pierre, but today of all days and this early into the season, I can't get worked up about it.

That Penny having to find a fan to warm up with is really strange in the context that he emerged unable to make an effective start.

35 - JP should have been there. Perhaps we need to clarify his role?

Jon,
You are getting soft. And I think your memory is too short as well.

There is no way to know that Kemp is "slumping" after 4 games. Kemp will always likely have a lot of strikeouts. Unless he turns into Bonds or Pujols, that's just the way heavy sluggers and walkers work. Torre sighting Kemp's 6 Ks in 15 ABs as indicating that something is wrong reminds me of the hated one's assumptions about Choi after he started with something like 10 K's in his first 11 ABs in 2005. I also remember talk about Choi needing to sit because certain pitchers were "not a good match for him." So instead we got Grabowski or The Bad Catcher playing first instead.

Just like Choi was always a lot better than the alternatives, Kemp is a lot better than Pierre - even if he is "slumping." There is no good reason to start Pierre unless Jones, Ethier or Kemp need a rest - a situation that, frankly, should be very rare.

Choi had the slowest bat I can remember seeing. No amount of stats can hide a slow bat.

That would be Ch-i.

33

It will be interesting to see how he does in the MPH department thrue out the entire season, I hope I'm proven wrong & he turns out to be even better or a good enough starter, I'm rooting for him.

SI has a great article re: Torre and the Dodgers on page 40.
I saw this at the barber shop today. One of the rare occasions that I venture out from the basement. It took be awhile to find the my way out, as I had to move several large piles of empty soda bottles, beer cans, corn chip bags, along with other sundry items.
Why did I even bother getting a haircut?

27 - We have to remember, Pierre is on the bench in the first place because of Spring Training. The Ethier-Jones-Kemp outfield was not the result of a triumph of reason, but more like a broken clock having the right time.

You're right ,Jon, there's no reason to get worked up about an occasional start by Pierre. Peavy is not a good matchup for a struggling Kemp.

I was thinking Torre might start Pierre again tomorrow to utilize his speed against Young, with Ethier sitting until I checked Young's splits and noticed that Andre has an .846 slg. pct. vs. Young. Then I checked Jones: 1.20 slg. pct. vs. Young. Then I checked Kemp: 4 k's in 5 ab's. If Pierre does start tomorrow, it's likely to be Kemp sitting again.

It's kinda funny how our perceptions can taint our thinking. When I saw Young face the Dodgers 2 years ago he stifled us on 2 hits - both by Jeff Kent, but apparently those are the only 2 hits Kent has ever had against him in 18 ab's. Could be a good time to start Hu?

It's just too much tinkering. Take your best 8 players and send them out there for days, weeks, maybe even months before you start making changes... otherwise, the trends can't play themselves out. That's my one gripe with Torre so far. We still have not see the same batting order twice, who knows what Billingsly's arm is ready for at this point, etc... Can't say for sure, but if Kemp hits in the 7 spot and plays 5 full games at this point I'd bet he wouldn't be searching for his swing/ rhythm. Is Pierre better suited to face Peavy? Maybe. But its also with developing players you think can be good or great without masterminding matchups the first week of the season.

To Bluebleeder87
In the last thread you mentioned that every pitcher should know how to pitch to Jones.

Do you mean that the pitchers should show him fastballs outside, off the plate? That they shoud mix in breaking pitches for strikes only on the outside of the plate?

Is it true that if a right handed batter tries to pull outside curveballs that the result is usually a grouder to short or third?

Jones did go to the opposite field to drive in a run last night.
For the most part, when Jones does hit the ball, he is hitting alot of grounders to short and third.

37 - I said in the first line I'd rather see Kemp play. You don't need to make the case to me.

44

... its also WORTH developing...

38 - Ugh, please, let's not go down that road.

38 a slow bat just means you gotta swing early :)

Peavy cheated:

http://tinyurl.com/46x8b3

http://tinyurl.com/4zrb3y

Re: Kemp

It sounds as though Kemp knows what he needs to do to correct. Last year he was sent down and when he came back up, he had learned how to hit the ouside pitch to the opposite field--and with power--.

I am one of Kemp's biggest fans, but until he can show that he can make consistent contact, he should have his playing time limited. Baseball is a skill game.
If there is one thing that Pierre has shown over his career, it is that he will make consisent contact.

51 - and that the ball will go 60 feet or so when he does.

Strikeouts do not mean Kemp can't be productive.

52
Yeah, I know. The Bison will get himself squared away. He just needs to recapture the feeling, so that he knows what it feels like to--stay within himself--.
As he is quoted above, it sounds like he recognizes that.

51 , 52

i'm with jon. consistent contact is meaningless. to use an extreme example to make my point, i'd rather have a home run and 3 strikeouts than 4 weak grounders.

I had a nickname for what Kenny Rogers did in the 06 World Series when his fingers looked like that. It looks like Peavy was also throwing said rule 1 violation.

Ugh, as I feared, today was a sucky sports day. I had a feeling - and this doesn't exactly make me Nostradamus - that the Dodgers would not defeat Peavy, and UCLA would have a hard time with an amazingly talented Memphis team. Alas, it all came true.

The Dodger game really doesn't bum me out that much because, forget it Chinatown, it's Jake.

57 - Not a bad day for me, though. The sun was shining, I got out of work close to on time, and I had Peavy starting in my head to head league.

And I didn't have a problem with the Dodgers sitting Kemp today. He may not officially be "slumping" but as one who's watched all of their first 5 games on TV it'd be hard to deny that he's at least pressing a lot. I just don't see how batting against Peavy is good medicine for that, especially after playing last night. But as long as he gets the next few starts then I'm okay with it. If they keep sitting him, then I'd begin to wonder and grit my teeth more.

50 - The half Ozzie Guillen theory says we should bean Jim Edmonds soon so we can offer them Pierre.

The other half of Ozzie wants Pierre so he can play smartball.

Btw, catching up on comments in previous thread after watching game on Tivo (and fastforwarding through a lot of it)... Joe Beimel's intro comments on the lineup were hysterically funny.

Okay, let's get 'em tomorrow! Chins up!

Happy evening.

55
Ok, let me clarify.
Loney and Either and Kemp have power swings.
By that I mean that they are short and quick from their release point with their hands and body to the ball. They are then extending and long out in front of the plate. They are looking to drive the ball, creating tremendous bat speed. Loney and Ethier strike out. They also hit the ball.
When they are missing the ball on their swings, they don't appear to be missing it--wildly--. The bat is usually, not always, but usually within a couple of bat barrels of the ball. They are--seeing-- the ball, recogizing the the pitch. This is one reason that "Crazy Eyes" is a good nickname for Loney. His vision is extra-extraordinary.
Kemp has shown that he can do these things too. He's just not doing them right now. He will though. He has some of the best coaches on the planet by his side to help him.

Was that a caped dog?

This is what I get for living on the East Coast though - I only read the Brad Penny line. What else did Beimel say in the lineup?

36 A good point.

I've said Loney and Kemp were due for a slump. I'm glad I've been wrong about Loney, and 5 games is not enough to define anything. They also have a right to work through it, and I'm totally confident they will both rake at some point this year.

this kansas-unc game is amazing

Ned Colletti said he received a call from Pierre's agent...

Just wondering if Pierre might be willing to re-structure his contract if that meant he could be traded to a team where he would start?

68

union wont allow him.

68

Exactly what Nate said, this isn't the NFL. Our only real chance of unloading him at the moment is to swap him for an equally bad contract, eat most of the contract in a trade, or include some young talent or attractive players so that the other team has an easier time swallowing his contract.

On a side note: Nate, do you still post over on the scout.com site?

Jones did go to the opposite field to drive in a run last night.

I wish he'd do that more often, I don't have a chart of were most of his hits go but judging by his swing I'm guessing he gets most of his hits to leftfield or leftcenter.

71 Jones reminds me of Adrian Beltre (sans the anomaly year) when all of his body seems to be sliding toward third when the pitch is on the outer half of the plate.

70

I like the prospect and draft threads.

71- Now you do

http://tinyurl.com/4emldm

64 I wish I could remember more of them offhand. Besides Brad "I don't know if I want to be a redneck or a Hollywood starlet" Penny, there was:

Blake "Third Baseman by Default (though he's been doing a great job)" DeWitt.

Juan "Hat size 6 3/4" Pierre.

Rafael Furcal was "The Latino......" er, I can't remember that one.

James "Bug Eyes" Loney? Something akin to "Crazy Eyes" but different.

Anyone remember the others? I would've saved my Tivo of the game but wanted to erase all memory of it.

My unscientific eyeballing of the spray chart yields this:

Jones's groundouts are always to the left side. His flyouts are random, his homers and singles are largely pulled, and his doubles are random.

Meloan starting in Vegas tonight.

70
That is a great observation.
However, baseball players do occasionally re-stucture there contracts, usually in the form of deferring large sums of money for payment at a latter date.

Arrangements like this might make moving Pierre more attractive to other teams.

In previous discussions, someone noted that one of the only reasons that Pierre or his agent would approach Colletti would be to request a trade--when a reporter asked Colletti if he had sought out Pierre regarding his benching--.

So I was just wondering.

Meloan
2 IP
1 H
0 ER
1 K
0 BB

74

I just scoped out the chart & the dude has always been a pull hitter (I guess that's why he's never been a good average guy) based on that I'll be happy if he gives us 25+ dingers & a good amount of runs batted in plus good D & I'll be happy I guess. I did a little B-R research (don't know what's considered good) & found these RC (runs created) stats for Jones the last 4 years: 89,113,113 & 74.

Meloan is now getting Brad Pennied in the 2nd inning. Four straight singles.

Here are the NL West Centerfielders RC stats the last few years:

Chris Young (very young, only been in the league 3 years)

2006 - 9
2007 - 82

Jim Edmonds

2004 - 144
2005 - 101
2006 - 59
2007 - 47

Willy Taveras

2005 - 69
2006 - 65
2007 - 57

Aaron Rowand

2004 - 97
2005 - 76
2006 - 53
2007 - 116

Las Vegas is a notorious hitter friendly park.

68
Ned: John Tyler? Ned Colletti here. I want to talk about Juan Pierre. He's been dividing his time between us and you. I cannot have that.

John Tyler: Well I don't know who he is but if you want him that bad I'm not giving him up that easily.

Ned: Oh is that so. Playing a little hardball huh Jonnyboy?

John Tyler: How about this. You give me Pierre, I convert your concessions to all chicken no charge. Instead of hot dogs, chicken dogs. Instead of pretzels, chicken twists. Instead of beer, alcoholic chicken.
Ned: How do you make that alcoholic chicken?

John Tyler: Let if ferment, just like everything else.

Ned: That stuff sounds great. All right. I'll have Pierre on the next bus.

The 51's just tide it up, let's hope Meloan pitches a little better now.

So...we've only hit one homerun so far this season eh?

86 Yeah, but wait 'til tomorrow!

Greg Miller in for Meloan now.

Miller two K's and a ground out to the pitcher. Control looked good.

64

"The latino godfather" Rafael Furcal
"My next door neighbor and carpool partner" Russell Martin
James "Popeye" Loney
Jeff "I should be collecting social security any day now" Kent
"Troy from West Virginia's biggest fan" Andre Ethier
"Man with the best cleats in the game" Andruw Jones
"...coming in with a hat size at a whopping 6 5/8" Juan Pierre
Blake "3rd baseman by default" DeWitt ("but he's doing a great job for us")
Brad "I don't know if I want to be a red neck or a Hollywood starlet" Penny

Upon second viewing, it actually sounds like Hollywood star, not starlet :(

That does make it considerably less funny.

Penny playing catch with a fan was pretty cool. I'm still waiting for Josh Bard's "single" in the 1st to be changed to a Blake DeWitt error. There's still time!

Penny really settled down after the 1st. I choose to look at the game as one the Dodgers won 1-0 over the final 8 innings. :)

I figured Pierre would start 1 of the 2 games this weekend, so I was mentally ready for today. If Kemp sits again tomorrow, I'm going to prepare my karosene for the angry mob meeting.

90 Popeye is a great nickname for Loney.

94 ... especially when he is in full uniform:

http://tinyurl.com/yqvsnh

Miller has given up 2 runs in 2 innings, but his control hasn't been bad. 4 Ks and only 1 BB.

Thats the worst Popeye costume I have ever seen.

I think Bayless is crazy going pro. Was not that impressed with what I saw of him. He should stay in school.

R.I.P., Charlton Heston.

If I didn't know any better I would have thunk he was getting ready to go to a mid-90's rave or something.

Wes Helms signs with the Marlins, in case anyone was worried the Dodgers were going to sign him.

I wasn't expecting much from today's game (Peavy and all)... but I am really impressed with Furcal. He is going to be huge for us this year, assuming he stays healthy.

If I were a SD fan, I would be worried about Edmonds covering the ground in PetCo.

101 - well, that's one bullet dodged, now if we can get the other Giles to go somewhere else, we can all breathe a sigh of relief.

Hearing Torre say that Kemp will play most of the time gives me great comfort. They also said on today's telecast that Ethier reminds Torre of Paul O'Neill - which occurred to me as well.

I do think Pierre will go to Colletti and ask if he can work out a trade. I don't think Pierre will be a Dodger next season.

99 I guess they can finally pry that gun.

He was great in "Touch of Evil."

102 Watching Edmonds try to play center field this year is going to be one of the great comic displays of our baseball-watching lives, I think. And to think Karros and Vasgersian were actually discussing in all seriousness today whether he'd be up to the task.

Pierre is somewhat of a lightning rod.
I was pondering this:

If Pierre were not in the picture--a big if, this is just a hypothetical--and Kemp or Ethier were struggling, would it be so objectionable if Young got a few starts in their place(s) while they regrouped?

105 -- Wow, that was in extremely poor taste. I know a lot of people disliked Heston because of his association with the NRA, but he wasn't EVIL.

105 ,108
Poor taste, yes. But also funny.

107 - I think Kemp, Ethier and Jones should be the starting outfield, but I don't ever expect the starting outfield to play 162 games a year. I wouldn't feel any need to sit either of them today, but if Young had started today, I would have not found it a big deal - which is why, I guess, I didn't get overwrought about Pierre. You have to give your bench some at-bats.

I realize that this was Pierre's second start this week, which is partly why so many people are in an uproar about it - and again, I understand it. I'm just having a lot of trouble getting worked up about it.

104

nothing against you RedDog but I don't like hearing Joe Torre talking like that, it's kind of like your high school girlfriend talking about her ex, who needs that.

108 It's a line he said frequently, so it may be a bit tasteless, but not that bad. Plus, Eric's right, he was great in Touch of Evil (not quite believable as Mexican, perhaps, but great in it nonetheless.) And of course Planet of the Apes, The Omega Man, El Cid, Sam Peckinpah's Major Dundee. I liked Heston's work in films. I didn't agree with him politically, but as with John Wayne that didn't affect my admiration for his work on screen. And I felt sorry for him at the end of "Bowling for Columbine," as M. Moore badgered him. (Not to get too political here.) Anyway...

112 Torre's just flattering him, comparing him to a great player that he was very familiar with. I don't think it's a negative thing at all.

111
Thanks Jon. I really feel like that too.
I just wish Kemp would go with the outside pitches when he swings at them or lay off of them, because today he was mostly just missing them.

112
After reading the SI article in the barber shop today, I got the feeling that the announcers were quoting from the same article.
It all looks better to me in context:)

113
I'm no apologist for Heston or anything he supposedly represented, but Moore didn't just badger him in that film, he sucker-punched him.

Heston and Joseph Cotton were part of Orson Wells Troupe. They made some great films in the 40's.
The first thing that I thought of when I saw the RIP was chariot races.

Soylent Green is People!!!

I think the only association Heston ever had with Welles was with Touch of Evil. He certainly wasn't in the Welles troupe.

117 -- I think Ben Hur was Heston's best film. I really love that movie.

Correct, Touch of Evil was the only Welles film Heston was in. Cotten was part of that troupe for sure, though. 116 I agree. 'twas unfortunate.

And how could I forget Soylent Green.

Makes me want to crack open a can of Soylent Cola in salute.

I thought that my Cinema professor at USC told me otherwise, but that was a long time ago, so I'll take your word for it and will stand as corrected:)

Ben Hur is indeed great, too, the best of all historical/religious epics.

"Almost at the moment He died, I heard Him say, 'Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.'"

115 missing them in his last couple of starts, he didn't play today.

My two favorite Heston roles are The Omega Man and his part as the First Player in Branagh's Hamlet.

113 "he was great in Touch of Evil (not quite believable as Mexican, perhaps, but great in it nonetheless.)"

I thought he was completely not believable as a Mexican, which was great for that particular film because the bizarre casting actually reinforced the comic undertones of the film. I tend to think Welles did that on purpose. But maybe not.

I could never get into a lot of Heston's technicolor epics, like Ben-Hur, the Ten Commandments, or The Greatest Show on Earth. They simply haven't aged that well. They were notable at the time mostly for the spectacle, and we've seen so many bigger and better spectacles since then that the impact of the DeMille-type stuff is muted now.

My next favorite after Touch of Evil would have to be the damned dirty apes, I suppose.

Touch of Evil was one of the better films released the same year the Dodgers began play in Los Angeles. But to me, Heston will always be Moses.

And I felt sorry for him at the end of "Bowling for Columbine," as M. Moore badgered him

That's how I'll remember Charlton Heston. On one hand, you couldn't help but feel sorry for him because he was an old man. On the other hand, he brought the badgering upon himself, and looked pathetic for not being willing to talk about his decision to promote guns in communities that had just experienced gun-related tragedies.

He did not come across well, and missed an opportunity to defend the guns he loved so much.

124 - I thought you were just being ironic.

Erik Bedard scratched already (hip inflammation).

This guy is breaking down fast. No wonder Baltimore wanted to cash in...

I love Hollywood guys, who aren't Hollywood at all. Heston was a one of a kind treasure. Limited actor at times, maybe but who isn't? Pathetic, never. Referencing Michael Moore on anything, other than cookie recipes, is probably dangerous. Next time through we might switch the matchups and pitch Kuroda against Peavy.

Our 2007 1st round supp. pick debuted last night for Inland Empire and had a great game:

James Adkins - 4 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 Ks

He has a legit shot at making the 2009 pen.

Pathetic: causing or evoking pity, sympathetic sadness, sorrow, etc.; pitiful; pitiable.

- Dictionary.com

Heston was pathetic in this sense at the end of "Bowling for Columbine." Yet, like I said before, he willingly drew attention to himself, so it was hard to really think of him as an innocent victim.

48 hours ago I was standing in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Today, Charlton Heston dies. Coincidence? I think so.

At the risk of a Rule 5 violation, I can't agree Heston brought the badgering upon himself. Under false pretense, Michael Moore took advantage on an old man in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's. If Moore was looking for a meaningful dialouge about gun control he should have sought Heaston out five years earlier or the current head of the NRA. I have long been in faovr of gun control (although after two weeks in Israel I must confess I'm open to reconsideration) but Moore's tactics are scummy at best.

As for baseball, I have not seen one inning of Dodger baseball yet this season. I am really looking forward to watching today's game. (My lone post from Israel that the Dodger game was on ESPN was wrong. Schedule said it would be on. Instead the 2007 Strong Man Competition was on. ESPN loves the Strong Man stuff.)

134 - Just in time, my friend. New post up top.

134
First of all, I don't think "Heston brought the badgering upon himself" and "Moore's tactics were scummy at best" are mutually exclusive.

Second, Heston wasn't a bed-ridden invalid who sought above all else to avoid the limelight. He conducted voluntary, intentional, political acts that thrust himself into the public spotlight by (presumably accepting large sums of money...?) to speak at NRA rallies in towns that had just had a bunch of people killed by guns.

I don't think it was reasonable for him to then expect to retreat to his ritzy neighborhood and be left alone. He brought the attention on himself.

It's kinda like celebrities in general who expect to make millions of dollars from the public off the attention they draw to their movies, songs, shows, etc., but then expect to be left alone by that same public when said celebrities want to live a "normal" life. It doesn't work that way.

How do you feel about Pierre starting over Kemp two days in a row, Jon?

garciapierra.blogspot.com

So this is what a Dodger Thoughts political board would look like. Not so nice.

Four statues of Gwynn at Petco. Kinda silly.

Rock y Roll we win!

So, like, anyone like the Dodgers here?

Oh I see, new post up top. I'm pretty stupid.

Maybe Jon can start highlighting those announcements in yellow or something.

can someone tell me why matt kemp is not playing!!!!!!!! this is unreal. i cant believe. i am so frustrated i could throw my tv out the window. man, i love torre, but what is going on here?? they dont trade they guys because he is a superstar talent, and now he sits on the bench?? this is just stupid, plain and simple!