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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Smiles, Everyone, Smiles
2008-04-15 21:59
by Jon Weisman

Gosh, twice in the past four games, the Dodgers have romp romp romped. What to think, what to think.

In games tonight and last Saturday, the Dodgers have outscored their opponents, 22-3. The rest of the season, they've been outscored, 48-40.

Tonight's game could hardly have started much worse for the Dodgers, with Hong-Chih Kuo allowing a single and two outs later throwing 10 consecutive balls, on the way to walking three batters and forcing home a run. But Kuo turned it around, striking out the next five batters and allowing only one more baserunner before reaching his current pitch-count limit of 75 after four innings.

Deposed starter Esteban Loaiza came in, and did exactly what you would hope for, saving the bullpen by going the rest of the way in relief - becoming part of an interesting piece of Dodger trivia along the way. Tonight marked the first time since July 31, 1991 that a Dodger reliever pitched at least five innings in relief, finished the game and got the victory. Kevin Gross was the last to be on a list that also includes:

  • John Wetteland's six-inning outing to close 1989's 22-inning, 1-0 victory at Montreal.

  • Roger Craig's 11 innings of three-hit shutout ball to seal a 13-inning victory over the Milwaukee Braves in 1959.

  • and 22-year-old Sandy Koufax's seven innings in a 1958 Coliseum victory.

    The Dodger offense made it easy for Kuo and Loaiza, with six batters reaching base at least two times and six getting an extra-base hit, including Russell Martin's first homer of the year. Another slumping hitter, Andruw Jones, had a single, a double, a walk and a deep fly out to left field.

    The one sour mash tonight: Tony Abreu has been sidelined again from his rehab in Vero Beach, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise, "due to the lingering aftereffects of offseason surgery to repair a torn abdominal muscle."

  • Comments (380)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-04-15 22:28:29
    1.   Bob Timmermann
    The 1959 Dodgers, if I recall correctly from BP's book on pennant races that came out last year, led the NL in pitcher starts that were shorter than 5 innings.

    And yet they still won the pennant and the World Series. The Dodgers had awesome long relief that season.

    2008-04-15 22:30:05
    2.   Xeifrank
    Charlie Steiner was asking if Chaka Khan, who sang the Natl Anthem was related to Genghis Khan. vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 22:30:18
    3.   Louis in SF
    Great game especially after last night's antacid special coupled with working on my taxes. While it was great to see Kemp showing off just about all his tools and Vin lauding him every chance he got.

    However, Kuo for me was a joy to watch. Has a lefty starter he seems to offer tremendous promise, does anyone know how long it will take him to be able to have a pitch count of 100. Is it arm strength or will he always be limited to low pitch counts because of the injuries?

    2008-04-15 22:32:54
    4.   LAbits
    2 Of course she is related!

    Well, they took a series from the Pirates. Yay!

    Dodgers seeing a LOT of pitches. How different is that?

    2008-04-15 22:36:39
    5.   Xeifrank
    3. My guess it's a little bit of both for the pitch counts. Guo has thrown 100 or more pitches twice in his career. Once in 2006 against Arizona and once in 2007 against the Padres. I think he will eventually get the green light to make 100 pitches in a game, but it will probably take atleast three more starts. With Guo, you have to take it one start at a time, so we will have to wait n see. I hope he stays healthy and keep his wildness down, because he is an amazingly talented left handed pitcher. vr, Xei
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 22:42:27
    6.   68elcamino427
    Torre is in the process of teaching the Dodgers how to be champions.
    First he needs to teach them how to think like champions.
    Next he needs to teach them how to act and play like champions.
    When they are champions, then they will know what it feels like.
    Torre already knows.

    I'm interested to see how long it will take until Loaiza whines to a reporter again.

    It looks like Matt Kemp is beginning to understand the message of Mr. Torre.

    This is going to be a fun season.
    If everything works out, I'll get a fleece blanket tomorrow night at the game.

    2008-04-15 22:47:12
    7.   Reddog
    I had an interesting experience today at the Post Office. I got to my small neighborhood Post Office Annex, located at the back of a Hallmark store around 4:15 - they're open till 5:00. I was there to mail in my tax return, like everyone else.

    I watched the guy manning the annex stamp my returns to make sure they were postmarked the 15th - and lo and behold, they were both postmarked April 16! I pointed this out to him, and he said I was the first person to notice this. All day long he had been postmarking everyone's return April 16.

    I got him to stamp mine April 15 in another spot on the envelopes, but he said he couldn't cross out or white-out the April 16 postmark.

    A lot of people today got their tax returns postmarked April 16 from this annex.

    Maybe this is no big deal, I don't know.

    2008-04-15 22:51:09
    8.   Bob Timmermann
    The IRS really won't care much one way or the other for one day. I would think the amount of money to collect for one day of interest and penalties would cost too much to process.

    It's also hard to believe that there are people at the processing center in Fresno who go through several million envelopes and examine each postmark with such precision.

    2008-04-15 22:55:18
    9.   JJ42
    Was at the game and some highlights:

    1) cool to see all the kids wearing the giveaway "42" shirts.

    2) met Chaka Khan, who was nice enough to take a pic with my girlfriend. she left soon after singing, but not before waiting to bring home 2 dodger dogs

    3) Andruw Jones theme music in his first 2 at bats was Bob Marley's "Three Little Birds" with the line "every little thing gonna be alright." After that, a lot of people seemed to jump back to his side.

    4) Furcal, Kemp, and Ethier at the top of the lineup is scary.

    2008-04-15 22:55:19
    10.   Marty
    Just got back from the game. Went with BHSportsguy, thank you again. Got to meet Daniel Zappala, his wife, father and three kids at Phillipes. What a nice family. A great game all around. Furcal still on fire, Loney extends his streak, Kuo settles down and has 6 or 7 Ks, The Bison roars around the bases, Kent and Martin Homers, Jones gets untracked, Loaiza pitches solidly. I don't think you can ask for much more.
    2008-04-15 22:55:45
    11.   Lexinthedena
    Just got home from the game. Kemp is really amazing. He is Winfield-Dawson-Hanley-esque.
    2008-04-15 23:05:17
    12.   bhsportsguy
    10 Sorry I missed meeting the Zappala family but thanks for the lamb sandwich!

    The Dodgers have now outscored their opponents 16-3 in the three games I attended at the Stadium, unfortunately, they are only 2-1 in those games.

    I'm not sure if they showed this on TV, on Ethier's double that gave the Dodgers the lead they would never lose, Kemp was almost at third before the left fielder even came within a few feet of the ball. Furcal was jogging in and Kemp was roaring right behind him.

    I thought I would get to witness a rare sight, a Bison walk but instead got a less rare sight, a Bison triple.

    2008-04-15 23:23:11
    13.   Dodgers49
    2 Lat'd.
    Charlie Steiner was asking if Chaka Khan, who sang the Natl Anthem was related to Genghis Khan. vr, Xei

    And that's not even her real name. Since I wasn't listening I have no idea if he was joking.

    2008-04-15 23:26:01
    14.   Xeifrank
    13. He was joking, but it was probably a bit culturally insensitive to be considered a joke. I kind of cringed when he said it.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:28:12
    15.   El Lay Dave
    10 I am happy that the Dodgers put on such a good performance while the Zappala family was in attendance. But where were the other thirteen children hiding?? ;)
    2008-04-15 23:29:29
    16.   Reddog
    For those who remember Dave Winfield, I'm just wondering how Kemp compares, as far as his tools. Could Kemp possibly exceed Winfield, or would that likely be his ceiling?
    2008-04-15 23:31:21
    17.   Andrew Shimmin
    14- I don't get it. How is it culturally insensitive?

    It's not funny, so it's offensive to comedy. But it had to be joke.

    2008-04-15 23:33:08
    18.   Xeifrank
    16. (From memory) Tools wise, probably pretty similar but they had different bodies. Winfield was very tall and looked a little lanky, but he was very very strong. As strong as Kemp appears to be, I think Winfield was stronger and could sure hit some amazingly hard line drives. vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:37:42
    19.   scareduck
    16 - since Winfield didn't play a single game in the minors, the comparison seems hard to make.
    2008-04-15 23:38:38
    20.   AlleyAlBee
    Why are folks calling Kuo "Guo"?
    2008-04-15 23:38:40
    21.   Dodgers49
    It's possible DeWitt may hang around until LaRoche returns:

    Garciaparra to be activated Friday

    >> As for roster moves, the Dodgers are still weighing their options.

    "There is a possibility that that we can go to 11 pitchers," Torre said.

    With Esteban Loaiza and Chan Ho Park, the Dodgers have a couple of long-relief pitchers, which gives them some flexibility.

    According to Torre, "It's something for the long haul we're not going to do, but there is a possibility that we can do it." <<

    2008-04-15 23:40:11
    22.   Xeifrank
    17. Poking fun at someone's name is a little juvenile. Poking fun at the names of other ethnicities, well... that's a slippery slope.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:42:45
    23.   El Lay Dave
    18 Agreed. Winfield was listed at 6' 6", which is four inches taller than Kemp. Winfield is pretty frequently mentioned as a comparison point. Winfield was also brought to the majors quickly (straight from U Minn, where he also played basketball) and played more CF than I first remembered, 222 games. Kemp is a little faster I think.

    Winfield hit maybe the hardest hit ball I've ever witnessed in Dodger Stadium. He smoked a rising line drive that split the flagpoles in dead center field like it was shot out of a gun. I could not believe how fast it got there.

    2008-04-15 23:43:35
    24.   Daniel Zappala
    That was a great game. As Marty noted above, we got to meet him at Philippe's, my first time there, and we had a nice time chatting with him. Didn't get to meet the ever elusive bhsportsguy, despite the sacrificial lamb sandwich, so we'll have to try again some other time this summer.

    The kids had a blast. They haven't previously paid much attention to the Dodgers, because they mostly see the Bees or whatever players on in their old video games (they know Barry Bonds and Mike Piazza). Tonight they may have become Dodger fans. They each wore their free Jackie Robinson shirt, and yelled and screamed at all the right moments. They were much more into this game than any other we've attended. It was pretty great seeing my 8-year-old daughter jumping and shouting every time the Dodgers walloped themselves another run.

    The stadium was beautiful. It's been ten years since I last was able to see it, and it looks fabulous. Every bit like the slice of heaven I remember. Dodger Stadium is such a magical place. Having been to some classic stadiums like Fenway Park and Wrigley Field since I was last was there, I can now see how Dodger Stadium sits right beside them as one of the truly great stadiums in the country.

    I couldn't have picked a better night, both the young and older players contributing, and so many great highlights. My favorite part of the night was getting to see the Kemp triple. I'd been hemming and hawing about what shirt to buy all week, and that clinched it -- I got myself a Kemp t-shirt on the way out of the park.

    Thank you Dodgers!

    2008-04-15 23:45:18
    25.   scareduck
    20 - differences in the transliteration from the Chinese.
    2008-04-15 23:45:29
    26.   Andrew Shimmin
    He wasn't making fun of the name (which Dodgers49 is right about; it's an assumed name), he was making fun of the coincidence that it's the same as a famous twelfth century Mongolian. Chaka Khan is black.
    2008-04-15 23:45:50
    27.   Xeifrank
    20. That's how 1.3 billion chinese would spell his name with english letters, as opposed to the 25 million or so that would use the K spelling. It's pronounced "Gwo". Dodger announcers butcher all three syllables of his name.

    First syllable: Hong, is pronounced with a long o sound, not like Hung or Hawng.

    Second syllable: Chih or Zhi, is pronounced "jer", you can light on the "r" final constant if you are not a speaker of standard Beijing mandarin.

    Third syllable: Kuo/Guo, is pronounced "Gwo", not "Ko" or "Kwo".

    Spelling it with a "K" leads people to keep mispronouncing it. It's not a hard name to pronounce, if you take the time to learn it. Many english, spanish and japanese names are harder to pronounce. Why not pronounce it the right way? Or atleast try and or be aware of it?

    vr, Xei

    2008-04-15 23:48:07
    28.   scareduck
    27 - I think the problem is the definition of "right".
    2008-04-15 23:49:10
    29.   El Lay Dave
    19 But aren't Winfield's NCAA baseball experience and Kemp's minors experience similar enough? At the same age, 23, as Kemp was to start the season, Winfield had 221 more PAs in the majors, with 6 more HRs, but slightly lower OBP and Slg%.
    2008-04-15 23:49:50
    30.   Xeifrank
    28. ???
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:50:03
    31.   Andrew Shimmin
    It's also important to note that Kuo was born on the island the 25 million who would use the K live on. And that, if he wanted to, he could have the K changed to a G. He doesn't seem to want to.
    2008-04-15 23:53:28
    32.   Xeifrank
    31. Nobody is saying he should change the spelling. If people pronounced it correctly, I'd have no beef. I'm sure Guo doesn't care if he has a G, K or X in his name, as long as he is playing in the big leagues. It is a sign of respect to make an attempt (especially for the broadcasters) to pronounce his name correctly. It's not that hard to pronounce. Atleast come close.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:54:25
    33.   Andrew Shimmin
    Quick, somebody different say something wrong, so that I can stop arguing with Xei.
    2008-04-15 23:54:26
    34.   Xeifrank
    31. The name is also pronounced "Gwo" in Taiwan. vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:57:03
    35.   regfairfield
    Chan Ho Park would be a much better starter than Kuo.
    2008-04-15 23:57:03
    36.   Andrew Shimmin
    32- Well, I have no problem with any of that. Hooray!
    2008-04-15 23:58:32
    37.   Andrew Shimmin
    35- Too late.
    2008-04-15 23:58:33
    38.   Xeifrank
    36. Ok, good. My job is done. :)
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-15 23:58:48
    39.   ryu
    32 So should all people with the last name Wong change their last names to Huang, since it's the more "correct" Chinese?
    2008-04-16 00:00:41
    40.   El Lay Dave
    27 I respectfully beg to differ on the ease of difficulty of pronounce said pitchers' name. I believe there are many sounds in common use in Mandarin that are quite uncommon in English, if they occur at all. It takes quite a bit of training for native English speakers to understand how to pronounce Mandarin correctly and even then it is the rare westerner that doesn't a very noticeable "accent". I don't speak any Chinese dialect, but I've heard enough Mandarin to know when it is spoken, and to notice when it sounds "off". My grandfather had a bit of a "country" accent; he was from Taiyuan (sp?) province, while my grandmother was from Beijing.

    For amusement - if you are old enough - imagine Curt Gowdy trying to pronounce these names on the Game of the Week!

    2008-04-16 00:02:19
    41.   El Lay Dave
    ... ease or difficulty of pronouncing ...
    2008-04-16 00:02:51
    42.   Daniel Zappala
    In the previous thread, Bob said:

    Genealogists are the most determined bunch of library patrons around.

    Thank you for the compliment!

    2008-04-16 00:06:10
    43.   Xeifrank
    39. Wong = Wang. The "ang" part is pronounced like the "oung" in the common english last name Young.

    40. Guo's name is easy to pronounce or atleast get very close to the correct pronounciation. I am not asking them to get the tones correct. That part you are correct about. The tones are difficult for an english speaker to grasp.

    vr, Xei

    2008-04-16 00:06:25
    44.   sporky
    Great win tonight!

    While we're on Pronunciation Thoughts, it's amazing how people can butcher 'Yoo.' The majority of people get it right, but I've had an alarming number of people pronounce it 'yo' (like Joe) or, even worse, 'woo.' I have no idea how it happens.

    2008-04-16 00:06:32
    45.   Louis in SF
    Since it looks like the Dodgers are going to keep De Witt on the roster for a little while until they have a read on Nomar's ability and a better idea when they will have La Roche back, they will probably send down a pitcher my guess is Troncosso. They can't send down Hu, because then they don't have a back-up short stop, I don't think Nomar counts anymore....One thing that I am starting to see from Torre that we didn't see from Grady, his announcements on personnel decisions. He said upfront today that JP would play tomorrow and also according to the LAT saying that De Witt would probably stay on the roster for a while as Nomar gets going.

    In fairness Grady may not have been allowed to say some of these things.

    2008-04-16 00:07:45
    46.   trainwreck
    This reminds me of when my Taiwanese friends told me their Chinese names.
    2008-04-16 00:08:46
    47.   Xeifrank
    45. Pierre starts tomorrow? Thanks for the heads up. I need to rerun my sim.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:09:03
    48.   Andrew Shimmin
    Every time we do Pronunciation Thoughts, I spend the next week being hyper-paranoid about pronouncing any name I don't know.

    I go out of my way not to meet people. Well, I do that anyway, but for a week I get to blame it on you people.

    2008-04-16 00:10:03
    49.   Xeifrank
    45. Oh, did Torre say which OFer sits? It takes some guts to sit any of the three starting OFers from tonight, after the outburst they had.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:10:09
    50.   El Lay Dave
    32 Agreed. When I am introduced to someone with a name that I find difficult to pronounce, I usually say, "pleasure to meet you, [name], how did you pronounce that again?" so I can hear it again and try to pronounce it correctly.

    Of course we live in a land where several of our presidents can't pronounce a simple word like "nuclear" correctly; no wonder some many stumble on Hong-Chih K/Guo.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-04-16 00:10:51
    51.   The Trolley Dodger
    49 Ethier is getting rested tomorrow.
    2008-04-16 00:11:30
    52.   Xeifrank
    48. Sorry. I swear I didn't start it. :)
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:12:01
    53.   Xeifrank
    51. Thanks TTD.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:13:37
    54.   trainwreck
    It's cool, we like to be educated. Or as educated as we can get through the tubes.
    2008-04-16 00:14:30
    55.   Daniel Zappala
    Quote of the day from my son:

    Son: Why do they have beach balls here?
    Me: Some people bring them and like to toss them around.
    Son: Is it illegal?
    Me: Well, the Dodgers don't like them to do it, and the ushers will try to catch the beach balls and pop them.
    Son: With, like, a dagger?

    So let the record show that my son believes beach balls at Dodger Stadium should be popped with a dagger. Beware.

    2008-04-16 00:16:13
    56.   Andrew Shimmin
    52- Just for the record, when I said, "you people," I meant DTers, not Chinese people. My pronunciation paranoia is not culturally specific.
    2008-04-16 00:16:47
    57.   The Trolley Dodger
    53 No problem -- it was in the LA Times story here:

    I wonder if it had anything to do with that HBP he took off his elbow.

    2008-04-16 00:18:30
    58.   The Trolley Dodger
    55 A dagger with an "LA" logo would be spiffy. Or maybe a dirk for wearing with a Dodger-Blue-plaid kilt. ;)
    2008-04-16 00:18:50
    59.   sporky
    56 I guess I qualify, too. Sorry!
    2008-04-16 00:19:07
    60.   El Lay Dave
    43 Wong = Wang. The "ang" part is pronounced like the "oung" in the common english last name Young.

    Really? I've never heard it pronounced with a strong schwa sound like "Young" - rhyme Wang with with lung or swung?

    2008-04-16 00:19:49
    61.   Xeifrank
    57. I wonder who hits in the #2 and #3 holes then? vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:20:36
    62.   sporky
    Oh geez... this is horrible.

    Mets fan reportedly dies after falling off railing at Shea

    >>Antonio Narainasami, 36, of Brooklyn was sliding down the railing when he lost his balance and fell two stories to the concrete on the loge level, sources told the Post. His two daughters were with him at the time of the accident.<<

    2008-04-16 00:21:17
    63.   El Lay Dave
    56 Where does the accent go on "Shimmin"? Are both "i"s short?
    2008-04-16 00:22:20
    64.   The Trolley Dodger

    Going against a lefty (Maholm). Maybe:


    2008-04-16 00:23:29
    65.   The Trolley Dodger
    64 BTW, that's not the lineup I would want, rather what I expect might happen. :)
    2008-04-16 00:24:44
    66.   Xeifrank
    60. This site will pronounce the name for you.
    Click on Wang2.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:26:59
    67.   Xeifrank
    64/65. I'd hope Pierre wouldn't be promoted to the #2 hole against a LHP. I'd rather see Martin or Loney moved up. vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:29:59
    68.   Andrew Shimmin
    63- First syllable. Both "I"s are short. I've heard that it's a very common name on the Isle of Man. Googling it, I remember only seeing a couple other distinct Andrew Shimmins, one a doctor in Australia, and one who went to Oxford. Which makes me the least successful Andrew Shimmin on earth.

    Also for the record, I sent regfairfield an email the he never responded to, too. I just figured he was sensitive about his typos.

    2008-04-16 00:30:00
    69.   The Trolley Dodger
    67 Yeah, I was just looking back through the schedule, and Pierre hasn't started a game against a lefty so far this season. Maybe Loney #2 or #3? Probably depends on whether Torre wants to go for the double rabbit action.
    2008-04-16 00:30:07
    70.   El Lay Dave
    66 Nice site. My western ear does not hear that as a rhyme for young. That sounded like wahng (phonetically) to me, whereas "young" is yuhng.
    2008-04-16 00:34:03
    71.   Bob Timmermann
    My brother popped beach balls with a pen when he was an usher.

    Last year, I popped a beach ball with my pen and then people grabbed the deflated ball and threw it at me.

    2008-04-16 00:36:41
    72.   Xeifrank
    70. I'll ask my teacher to make sure. :)
    71. Party pooper! But I think you did a brave and noble deed. We had two kids standing up for a large chunk of the Coliseum (dodgers) game following the plight of beach balls. They were right in the line of site to home plate for half the people in our row. Eventually, they got an ear full.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 00:40:29
    73.   El Lay Dave
    57 I wonder if it had anything to do with that HBP he took off his elbow.

    I hope not, but I can't see why Ethier needs a day off against a nothing lefty. If DeWitt can start every game at 3B, Ethier can't possibly need rest at OF.

    2008-04-16 00:45:37
    74.   Andrew Shimmin
    I just finished reading the morning thread, and I see that bhsportsguy was infected by D4P's misuse of "begs the question." I hope D4P is proud of himself.
    2008-04-16 00:47:18
    75.   El Lay Dave
    74 One of my pet peeves too. "Begging the question" is such a useful term that seeing it being eroded into a synonym for "raising the question" is disheartening.
    2008-04-16 00:56:18
    76.   Neal Pollack
    That was a great performance tonight, though keep in mind that we shattered the ancient Matt Morris and a couple of mop-up guys. Still, Kemp looks like twice the player Pierre is, and anyone who doesn't see that is blind. Jones' swing started looking better last night. He's just missed his first Dodger HR twice now.

    Last night was a fluke, and some of the other losses were just a result of running up against good pitching. The sweep at the hands of the D'Backs worried me, though. That is some team.

    2008-04-16 00:57:02
    77.   overkill94
    I hate to rekindle the recent flames, but I actually get really annoyed when Xeifrank brings up the G/Kuo thing.

    I'm of Hispanic descent and announcers never get close to pronouncing Latin players with the correct pronunciation. Why? Because everyone listening would get super-confused. Why? Because the english language has its own set of pronunciations for the letters presented before it. If Hong Chi really wanted his name pronounced differently, I'm sure he would either change the spelling or put in a special request to the announcers.

    Sorry if I sound insensitive, but it seems pointless to get all bent out of shape over something that the player himself doesn't seem to care about and then chastise people who disagree.

    2008-04-16 00:58:20
    78.   El Lay Dave
    0 I forgot to write this earlier. Some really fine things come from sour mash.
    2008-04-16 01:01:13
    79.   Xeifrank
    77. Nobody seems bent out of shape except for maybe you. Nobody was chastised. Someone politely asked why there were two spellings, then a conversation took place explaining why. And I never brought up the G/Kuo thing in this thread. Perhaps you don't mind your name being butchered but that doesn't mean other people don't mind.
    2008-04-16 01:01:15
    80.   scareduck
    30 -

    "Q. I attach a list of queries raised by F. who is reading the proofs. He finds these very clean, but full of inconsistentcies in the spelling of proper names, a point which reviewers often take up. Will you annotate it in the margin, so that I can get the proofs straightened?

    A. Annotated: not very helpfully, perhaps. Arabic names won't go into English, exactly, for their consonants are not the same as ours, and their vowels, like ours, vary from district to district. There are some "scientific systems" of transliteration, helpful to people who know enough Arabic not to need helping, but a wash-out for the world. I spell my names anyhow, to show what rot the systems are."

    -- T.E. Lawrence, Preface, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom

    2008-04-16 01:02:20
    81.   Jon Weisman
    78 - Yeah, I really shouldn't have used that.
    2008-04-16 01:08:22
    82.   Andrew Shimmin
    Ethics in America is on KOCE, for any night owl sick of infomercials.

    Every subsequent Surgeon General should have been required to look like C. Everett Coop.

    2008-04-16 01:08:34
    83.   overkill94
    79 The fact that you mention it every time Kuo's name is mentioned gets to be a little much. I don't mean to start a fight, I just had to get it off my chest.

    As for the last statement, it still hasn't been documented one time that Kuo cares about the pronunciation. If it was your name and I was mispronouncing it and you corrected me then that's perfectly fine. When you start getting mad that Vin Scully is mispronouncing a name (which I remember you doing) of a player who apparently doesn't care, then that's another matter entirely.

    2008-04-16 01:09:04
    84.   Andrew Shimmin
    Koop! Oops.
    2008-04-16 01:10:24
    85.   Jon Weisman
    79 - Well, you chastise the announcers pretty regularly. I would argue that it is the player's responsibility to correct the pronounciation/spelling of his name. Now, I don't know if he's too polite to do so, or just doesn't think it's worth the trouble, or just is completely oblivious. But I could do without the criticism of the announcers for not knowing better, every time this issue comes up, regardless of who brings it up.

    Based on what I know about broadcasters, at least some of them take it upon themselves to verify pronunciations with the players themselves (or have assistants do that verification). Someone with first-hand contact with Kuo can tell me differently, but I find it quite possible that he has been given the opportunity to change the spelling/pronunciation of his name and has done nothing. I don't see how that's the announcers' fault.

    2008-04-16 01:11:36
    86.   Xeifrank
    83. Ok, glad you got that off your chest. Hope you can sleep now.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 01:15:50
    87.   El Lay Dave
    81 To claify, I am hoping for Abreu that similarly something good will come from what is simply a sour mash now, not niggling at your usage choice.
    2008-04-16 01:17:34
    88.   Xeifrank
    85. Am I chastizing people who disagree with me? I really don't care if people disagree with me and think it should be pronounced incorrectly for whatever reasons. Would you care if people pronounced YOUR name incorrectly, over and over? Perhaps if the Dodgers called up hot prospect Paul Weisman and the Dodger announcers kept butchering the name over and over. Perhaps it wouldn't bother you, perhaps you wouldn't try to educate people or point out what the correct pronounciation was. Perhaps you would spell it more phonetically pleasing to help out a little bit. Maybe it doesn't bother you since it's not YOUR name. I don't know. I don't really make a big deal out of it. It is a badge of honor towards a name that means something to me. G'Night.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 01:18:21
    89.   El Lay Dave
    80 Lawrence says it so much more eloquently than my poor attempt at a similar message in 40 . Thanks for the quote.
    2008-04-16 01:28:21
    90.   overkill94
    88 The Japanese clients I work with pronounce my name "Nicka" instead of Nick, not to mention how far off they are on my last name. Obviously they mean no disrespect, it's just the way their native tongue pronounces my name. It would seem that forcing them to attempt a pronunciation they are entirely uncomfortable with would be disrespectful on my part.
    2008-04-16 01:29:42
    91.   Jon Weisman
    88 - How can you say you don't make a big deal out of it? You clearly care a lot about this issue. And no one's saying you shouldn't. But that doesn't mean it doesn't occasionally get annoying, especially when you assign blame to announcers without proof that they've done anything wrong.

    Meanwhile, you're not chastising people who disagree with you, but you are reacting rather strongly to comments that have gone out of their way to try to be polite.

    People get my name wrong all the time. They spell both parts wrong, they pronounce the last part wrong. Often, I correct them. Sometimes, I let it go. But I certainly don't get upset that they get it wrong or expect them to get it right without checking with me first. That's the point we're trying to make with Kuo. It's not our name, but it is Kuo's name, and you seem unwilling to consider the possibility that he's even partly responsible for this dilemma.

    2008-04-16 01:30:50
    92.   Andrew Shimmin
    Midge Decter was hard core, back then, too.
    2008-04-16 01:33:37
    93.   GoBears
    86 I'm with overkill on this one. It is too much, probably the most common violation of Rule 8 in the comments. I also think it's misguided.

    The real culprits here are the folks who came up with the romanization systems for Chinese. Vowels will always be a problem for English speakers, because our own are so inconsistent. But our consonants are consistent, and purposefully romanizing Chinese in such a way as to force English-speakers to read consonants differently (from now own, "k" sounds like a hard "g"!) was a ridiculous decision.

    Still, that's what they did. Seems to me that, eventually, Xeifrank's idea of re-romanizing to match English consonant sounds is the right way to eliminate this problem (Guo). That way, we'll get closer to the correct pronunciation.

    However, when we write, we don't speak. If the "official" transliteration of the pitcher's name is spelled K-u-o, so be it. If an American sportscaster, untrained for his work in the niceties of Wade-Giles or pinyin thinks that a "k" should be pronounced like a "k," then, unless someone asks, it's probably best just to let it slide.

    Nearly every Spanish name is mispronounced (including "Los Angeles"). Japanese names and Korean names are usually butchered. Not too many other languages are represented in MLB, but those that are, are almost certainly mispronounced.

    And it's not just because we're all ignorant Americans. Speakers of other languages generally mispronounce English names. So what?

    Xeifrank, I get that this is a pet peeve for you (we all get it), but you bring so much good stuff to the comments (your disdain for TV is, by contrast, quite enjoyable, and your simulation stuff is terrific) why not just let the name thing go? When we type Kuo, just read it the way you want to read it, and when announcers mispronounce it, please just shake your head knowingly and move on.

    2008-04-16 01:34:56
    94.   Xeifrank
    91. it's more than just "his" name... to me.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 01:37:53
    95.   Xeifrank
    93. I always move on if someone writes Kuo. I just spell it my way, and many of you spell it yours. Once in a while, I may mention that the announcers are butchering his name but this lengthy off topic conversation was not brought up by me. But as long as you keep it going, I will be glad to reply. vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 01:39:37
    96.   Andrew Shimmin
    Ooh! Here comes the "vestigial Marxism" part. I love the vestigial Marxism part.
    2008-04-16 01:39:37
    97.   GoBears
    88. My (actual) surname is of German origin, with an "ie" to confuse English speakers, and a Th to confuse German speakers (because my family uses the Americanized pronunciation of the "Th"). It gets mispronouced much more frequently than it gets pronounced correctly. I couldn't care less. If someone I'm likely to have a long relationship with gets it wrong, I'll correct them once, but if someone I'll only see occasionally, or likely never again gets it wrong, I don't even blink. As long as I know they're referring to me, good enough.

    Life's too short.

    2008-04-16 01:45:05
    98.   overkill94
    My last comment before finally going to sleep...

    It's somewhat of a tangent to the current conversation, but it's actually more annoying when an announcer attempts to pronounce a Hispanic name and totally butchers it. It's not Odalis Pair-ez (is it Jon Miller who does this?), the accent is on the second syllable. Going with the normal Purr-ez pronunciation is not only phonetically correct in english, but way better than a misguided attempt at foreign pronunciation.

    2008-04-16 01:46:56
    99.   GoBears
    I'm sorry to have piled on. I just didn't want overkill94 to think he was alone. I think it qualifies as irony that my contributions probably qualify as overkill.

    G'night all.

    2008-04-16 01:47:00
    100.   Neal Pollack
    I think from here on in, we can all just spell every name beginning with a G. They all look pretty cool. Gjuan. Gjames. Gnomar.



    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2008-04-16 01:48:45
    101.   Xeifrank
    100. No, only the Royals are allowed to do that. vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 01:59:27
    102.   trainwreck
    Most people can't say my last name, so I use that as a tool to hang up on telemarketers.
    2008-04-16 02:09:04
    103.   The Trolley Dodger
    98 Actually, in Odalis's case I believe he has an accent on the first syllable: Pérez.

    I think I remember hearing somewhere that Jon Miller prides himself on getting pronunciations correct, so despite his seeming over-pronunciation at times, it's actually correct.

    2008-04-16 02:09:38
    104.   The Trolley Dodger
    And you would be amazed how many different ways there are to spell Daeley. :)
    2008-04-16 02:15:51
    105.   was it tims mitt i saw
    Chan Ho Park's name would then be Chon Ho Bak. Of course in Korea, the "Bak" would go first. (Never understood why the first Korean Park added the "R" when spelling his name in English)

    I remember watching a World Baseball Classic game with the Korean team and the announcers were commenting on how so many Korean players had the same first name Lee. Now, that, I believe, is announcer ignorance.

    2008-04-16 02:50:04
    106.   Eric Enders
    Being of Latino heritage also, it bugs me to no end when announcers pronounce the names wrong. Being familiar only with English and Spanish, I often wonder whether the guys on SportsCenter or wherever are butchering the French-Canadian and Russian hockey names as badly as they are the Latino baseball names, and I just don't know enough about those languages to know the difference.

    That said, I'm pretty much with overkill regarding Xei's, well, overkill. I think it actually serves the message better to point it out only every once in a while, rather than at every opportunity.

    Anyway on to Jon Miller, I think he gets a really raw deal over the Spanish names and it's due mostly to ignorance. People get annoyed with him because they've become comfortable in their own mispronunciations, and hearing a name pronounced in a way they're not used to is a little jarring. But Miller deserves credit for being one of the few announcers who actually makes an effort to pronounce things correctly, and he gets the names right almost every time, albeit with a little more flourish to it than some would like.

    I disagree with Jon's (Weisman's, that is) notion that the player bears part of the responsibility for his name being mispronounced. A baseball broadcaster's job is knowing how to pronounce things. A baseball player's job is to play baseball. I don't think it's the player's responsibility to be pro-active in doing the broadcaster's job for him. And besides, how would Kuo even know that a given broadcaster is pronouncing his name wrong? Does he go home and watch Vin Scully on TiVo every night? And is it his responsibility to individually correct each of the fifty or sixty announcers who will call games in which he pitches this year? One of the basic functions of a broadcaster's job is knowing how to pronounce the names he says, and if you don't already know how, ask the person. Anybody who can't take the time to do this is not fulfilling even the bare minimum requirements of their job. Usually, if it's a player on the other team, almost all broadcasters will just get the pronunciation from an announcer for that team. Unfortunately, those guys are apt to have bad information too, so the wrong pronunciations end up getting passed around the league like syphilis.

    Another thing that we (and Xei in particular) need to consider is that the player himself may actually want his name pronounced the way the announcer in pronouncing it, even if it seems incorrect to outsiders like ourselves. For example, Jaime Navarro was always insistent that his name should be pronounced not like the Spanish name Jaime, but like the English name Jamie. Eric Chavez pronounces his name "Shuh-VEZZ." It makes me cringe every time I hear it. If that were my name, I'd never pronounce it that way in a million years. But it's his name and his pronunciation and we should remember that.

    None of the variations of Odalis' surname proffered so far have been exactly correct. It's a tricky name to pronounce and actually physically impossible for many anglos, because the tongue roll takes lots of practice. But the accent is on the first syllable. The closest thing I can come up with is that it sounds almost exactly like Gary Pettis' surname, except that the last syllable is an "ess" sound instead of "iss."

    2008-04-16 03:13:23
    107.   unlazy4sports
    IMO, the general public will never be able to pronounce ANY foreign names correctly, not just chinese names, unless they can speak the language or have a lot of practice pronouncing the names. Because of this, I've always looked at how people pronounce my last name, Chen, as the english way of pronouncing it. What's the big deal if it's not pronounced the way it should in mandarin? We're not speaking mandarin. For example, if I mention Kuo to my mom, I talk to her in mandarin and say Guo. If I mention him to my friends in english (even those that knows mandarin), I'll say Kuo.
    2008-04-16 03:31:18
    108.   unlazy4sports

    Kuo is from the island of 25 million people or so, which is why he spells his name Kuo, even if it is pronounced "Gwo" in mandarin. You talk about how disrectful it is to pronounce a person's name incorrectly, how respectful is it to spell a person's name incorrectly?

    2008-04-16 04:05:33
    109.   Terry A
    I have no problem with Xeifrank's subtle crusade. In fact, I kind of enjoy it. And to be sure, I don't want him to get the idea that he's merely being "tolerated" around here. (Nobody used that word specifically.) The absolute best part of his DT presence is the faithful "vr" that appears at the end of each comment. We should all sign off with such class and dignity; it might keep us from running afoul of the rules so often. vr, Terry G.
    2008-04-16 05:24:42
    110.   Ken Noe
    I'm from Virginia/West Virginia, so we don't pronounce the 'e." It's "no." Now in East Tennessee, it would be "no-e." Elsewhere it's "no-ay." Somehow I thought this would be fascinating today ;-) Hokie Hi.
    2008-04-16 06:04:52
    111.   CanuckDodger
    Really, Eric, Xeifrank, you must be familiar with the concept of "Anglicization?" I don't think English-speaking people are "mispronouncing" Chinese names or Spanish names. They are simply not pronouncing them the way Chinese and Spanish-speaking people pronounce them, but are following English pronunciation.

    When I was in university, I took a course on Latin American history. I don't know if the professor was Canadian or American, but he was certainly an "Anglo." He made a point of always pronouncing the names of Latin American counties the way the people who live there pronounce them. So it wasn't "Mexico," it was "Me-hee-co." It wasn't "Cuba," it was "Coo-ba." It wasn't "Brazil," it was "Bra-sil." And so on and on. Frankly, this made the professor sound ridiculous to me, and I couldn't quite put my finger on why I felt that way. Soon, something interesting was said in another history class I was taking, a course on Middle Eastern history taught by an American professor (Anglo) who had grown up speaking Arabic because his parents were missionaries in the Middle East. One day he told the story of an American English-speaking woman who was asked if she spoke "Persian," the language of Iran. The woman answered "No, I speak Farsi." Farsi is what Iranians call their own language, but "Persian" is the accepted English word for "Farsi." The professor then refered to the woman as a "pretentious twit," calling what she did tantamount to being asked if she spoke French and replying "No, I speak Francais." And that answered for me my own question of why the Latin American profesor sounded ridiculous to me. He was an English-speaking man in an English-speaking part of Canada speaking to English-speaking people, but essentially affecting a Spanish accent or Portuguese accent when he used Spanish or Portuguese names. "Yeah, that is pretentious," I said to myself, as I thought about that other history professor. If he were teaching a course in German history and kept calling Germany "Deutschland," I bet students would have outright laughed in his face.

    Now bringing this back to the subject of baseball player names, I think if the player himself states a preference that he be refered to a certain way, it is polite to honor his request. For instance, back when Wilson Betemit was a Brave, Jon Miller said on ESPN that he asked Betemit how his name should be pronounced and Betemit said "Bete-meet." Okay, no problem, if that is what the guy wants. After that, I always thought "Bete-meet" when thinking of Wilson. But in the absense of the player making his wishes known like that? In Kuo's specific case, I believe I read somewhere that he specifically said he doesn't care how his name is Romanized or pronounced by Americans. So that should settle that. It seems to me that Xeifrank has every right to take exception to people spelling his name or pronouncing it in a way he doesn't like, but he is not Kuo's delegated representative, entitled to speak on Kuo's behalf, just because of shared ethnic heritage. And Xeifrank, if I may make a TV reference, from watching the old 1970's TV series Kung Fu, I remember that David Carradine's character always said "gung fu," but in the English-speaking world, it is called "kung fu." That's our convention. We have our way of saying things, doing things, and I think we should continue with our ways unless someone objects to his OWN name being pronounced differently or spelled differently than he likes it, as in that instance rules of etiquette trump convention.

    2008-04-16 06:19:47
    112.   tethier
    Sorry in advance for the long post.

    It was nice to wake up on the East Coast and see that the Dodgers thrashed the Pirates last night. Hopefully Jones and Martin are starting to come around and we have reason to be encouraged. One thing you can say about the offense is there are a lot of weapons. While it's true there is no Arod, Big Papi or Manny, there really isn't a weak spot top to bottom (except maybe DeWitt for now) when Kemp is in there.

    Not to overemphasize one game, but tonight's game should be telling. This is a game that we should win going away - these are the kinds of games that the Yankees and Red Sox nearly always seem to win. Your ace is going against a team that is clearly inferior and while a win is a win, it should be done in convincing fashion.

    I'll weigh in on the name debate only because my last name is frequently mispronounced and misspelled and it is the same as the Dodger's current RBI leader.

    I notice that Vin pronounces it the same way I do but I remember seeing an early video highlight when Andre first came up when he mispronounced it. Someone must have told Vin (perhaps Andre himself) how to pronounce it. It certainly would have bugged me if it continued to be mispronounced. Now of course the pronunciation that Andre and I and the handful of other Americans with the same name use is an Americanized pronunciation, significantly removed from the original French pronunciation. If Vin had used the French pronunciation I would be just as happy.

    When my name is mispronounced, which is often, I usually take the approach that someone mentioned above. If it is someone who I am not likely to have a long relationship with, like an anonymous customer service person on the other end of the phone – I let it go. Someone I'll actually have a relationship with, I'll correct.

    Perhaps more common is the amount of times that the name is misspelled - including a fair number of times on this blog. Though I will say, often it is just a typo and it seems to happen less frequently than say a year ago.

    2008-04-16 06:20:36
    113.   gpellamjr
    I'm with Xei on this one. I fly into a rage any time I hear someone say "Sin-Sin-Att-us". The guy's name is pronounced "Kin-Kin-Nat-oos". "Thee-see-uhs"? Um, no. It's "Teh-sews". And if I hear just one more person say "vee-nee vee-dee vee-chee", I may just have to take Bob off of my facebook friends.
    2008-04-16 06:31:07
    114.   Penarol1916
    111. How do you know for a fact that your professor was Anglo and affecting a Spanish and Portuguese accent, did he have a Southern accent when he said every other word? I look extremely Anglo and have a last name of Cook, but I pronounce Mexico, Meh-ji-co, because I'm from South America and that's how I grew up pronouncing these countries, it's just what I'm used to and it feels very forced and like I'm being condescending when I try to pronounce these countries in the English way.

    Frankly, I have no problem with Xeifrank spelling Kuo as Guo and telling people why when they ask. The only issue would really be the harping on the announcers.

    2008-04-16 06:32:20
    115.   Penarol1916
    113. How do you pronounce Perseus? He was always my favorite.
    2008-04-16 06:59:58
    116.   MollyKnight
    Seeing Martin hit that home run was therapeutic. I'm less concerned about W's at this point, and more interested in having all of our guys get going. If last night was the night that Druw and Russ turned it around, it's much more valuable than a win (though I'll take that, too).

    Lots to smile about this morning. I love the production from our top four hitters. That's the ways it's supposed to be, right? Matt Kemp sets the table, and he also clears it off.

    2008-04-16 07:04:09
    117.   Bob Timmermann
    My name is always pronounced correctly and frequently misspelled. I try to fight the good fight to get all 10 letters spelled, but people like to give up. I still don't understand why Keith Olbermann doesn't have the same problem.

    A few years back I was going through the line at the market with a friend who is Japanese-American. She used her market's club card and that displays your name to the checker so s/he can thank you by name. So when the name "Kawakami" came up, the checker either didn't read it right or was trying to figure out why the two of us were together and assumed that we were married. So on the way out it was,
    "Thanks Mr. and Mrs. Kowalski."

    Little did I know but under California law, supermarket checkers do have the right to perform weddings in line. Although most markets won't do it in the express line.

    2008-04-16 07:05:45
    118.   Marty
    My last name is Leadman. Looks pretty simple. But for people who don't know me, it gets mispronounced 50 percent of the time. I had many teachers who never pronounced it correctly.
    One of the first things I learned is to answer to both versions. I only correct someone who asks, or someone I want to get to know better. There are so many things to get upset about that a simple name mispronunciation seems very low on the list.
    2008-04-16 07:07:05
    119.   Marty
    116 Matt Kemp drinks your milkshake.
    2008-04-16 07:12:24
    120.   StolenMonkey86
    I appreciate the crusade for the pronounciation Guo. I just like to think that there's a K there instead because he strikes people out like crazy.
    2008-04-16 07:13:38
    121.   StolenMonkey86
    My last name frequently suffers from truncation error, but I don't suppose that says much given my secret identity.
    2008-04-16 07:22:36
    122.   CodyS
    I didn't see early Winfield, so I don't remember him being that fast. When he stood in the batter's box though, he had a NOTICEABLY different body from all the other players.
    Kemp runs just unbelievably fast around the bases. It looks like he is cornering, almost the entire time, because he covers the straightaway in like 2 seconds.
    2008-04-16 07:30:05
    123.   Gen3Blue
    Apparently Genghis Khan took advantage of his empire to father an incredible amount of children. By the interesting affects of population genetics most of the world's people, including those called "blacks", "whites", and "asians"
    probably include him as an ancestor.
    2008-04-16 07:31:54
    124.   Dark Horse
    100- Gmatt, Gandre, Grafael. We could beat the Royals at their own game.
    2008-04-16 07:33:36
    125.   Ken Arneson
    OK, I studied a lot of linguistics in college, so I'm going to have to write a definitive blog entry on this so people can refer back to it every time it comes up. Maybe I can do it later today.

    To cut a long story short, the issue in K/Guo is about the difference between phonetics and phonemics.

    2008-04-16 07:35:30
    126.   Sushirabbit
    Speaking of Winfield, was there any mention of a call to Kent when he passed him in all time doubles? I'd be very surprised if Winfield didn't call.

    Also, the Dodger's only win against a quality Pitcher was probably Chris Young. Morris, as someoneelse pointed out, is pretty bad. Still, I'm happy. I only wish that last night's lineup should answer the outfield questions once and for all.

    2008-04-16 07:43:47
    127.   KingKopitar
    My first name is Zac. Try having that name in a Spanish class.
    2008-04-16 07:50:21
    128.   Gen3Blue
    Speaking of names--from "Car Talk" recently.

    Gourmet advisor--Howard M. Burghers
    Eyeglasses by ---C. F. Eyecare

    2008-04-16 07:53:34
    129.   Daniel Zappala
    Xei is always firm in his opinions on this issue, but polite. You have to give him points for that, and he was only responding to comments made by other people, he wasn't the one who brought it up this time.

    Sometimes, an old discussion can get repetitive for those of us who have been around for a long time, but newcomers often don't have any idea what is going on. The original query on K/Guo was clearly by someone who didn't know the history of this blog, and there isn't a nice FAQ we can point someone to.

    I like Canuck's take on this, but, as with so many issues, there are lots of great opinions on this blog. I've never met Xei, but when Kuo had a rough first inning last night, I immediately thought of him and felt bad for him. Thankfully, he turned it around, and I hope he gets another start.

    2008-04-16 07:56:51
    130.   Jon Weisman
    129 - I basically agree, but I think 86 and 88 were responses in a tone that was disproportionate to what preceded. But that's just my opinion.
    2008-04-16 07:57:51
    131.   Daniel Zappala
    I liked the tribute to Jackie Robinson last night, and thought it was cool everyone wore a jersey with "42" on it, from both teams. I think it makes the tribute more meaningful when everyone wears the same number, and I hope they do it every year.
    2008-04-16 07:59:23
    132.   Ricardo
    It´s very strange to me the way that Matt Diaz´s surname is pronounced, ESPN Brasil´s broadcasters always talk about it when the Braves are playing. And Peñarol are you from Uruguay?
    2008-04-16 08:08:34
    133.   Daniel Zappala
    Wow, great picture of Kuo in the Times online today. If you subtract the 31/32 pitches he threw in the 1st inning, that was 43 pitches in 3 innings, which isn't bad.
    2008-04-16 08:13:30
    134.   Disabled List
    Honestly, this was a very interesting thread to read through this morning. I agree with Canuck's post in 111 . You may not agree the custom of Anglicizing foreign words, but I'm sure there's a reason for it. I remember getting annoyed at NBC for referring to the site of the last Winter Olympics as "Torino". It's Turin!

    I can't talk though. My name is very simple to pronounce. Even foreign speakers usually get it right on the first try.

    2008-04-16 08:14:03
    135.   Daniel Zappala
    Impact of DT on last night's game: meeting Marty, eating at Philippe's, mentally thinking "K/Guo" when Kuo pitched, counseling my kids to ignore the beach balls and not to boo when Kuo walked in a run, yelling "Bison" when Kemp got his triple, praising the Golden God when he got his home run, cringing when Loaiza came in, thinking Jones wasn't that fat when he caught a long drive at the wall.

    Jon, I can't imagine watching a game in the same way ever again.

    2008-04-16 08:17:05
    136.   berkowit28
    Well, I thought that 117 was funny, and it's been ignored. I don't want Bob to feel unappreciated for a funny story. So - Ha!
    2008-04-16 08:17:33
    137.   Daniel Zappala
    134 Italian names are so easy to pronounce, it's amazing any cities have Anglicizations.
    2008-04-16 08:21:35
    138.   Jon Weisman
    Fernando's wild ride to start '85. I remember it well.

    2008-04-16 08:21:51
    139.   Disabled List
    131 I have the opposite opinion. I don't want to see the "42" gimmick done every year. Instead of being a special, unique tribute, it becomes rote practice: Every April 15, out come the #42 jerseys. I actually think it has more meaning if the practice is done more sparingly, such as the on the round-number anniversaries. I'm sure people will disagree with this.

    This is similar to how I feel about the way the Yankees still play "God Bless America" at the 7th inning stretch. For the rest of the 2001 season following 9/11, it had a lot of meaning. Now, it's become trite, and that's sad.

    2008-04-16 08:22:36
    140.   regfairfield
    I'm suddenly very thankful there's only one way you can pronounce my name.
    2008-04-16 08:24:33
    141.   Daniel Zappala
    139 I actually agree on the Yankees thing, but for me the difference between trite and meaningful is every game versus once per year.
    2008-04-16 08:30:15
    142.   kinbote
    Great win for the Dodgers. I wish today were a day game so we could get right back out there. BTW, my guess for a roster move is Troncoso down to AAA.
    2008-04-16 08:33:38
    143.   kinbote
    Did anyone mention Feliz's line for Inland Empire last night?: 3 perfect innings in relief with 8 strikeouts.

    Should I know this guy?

    2008-04-16 08:41:06
    145.   Jon Weisman
    140 - Not after I'm through with you.
    2008-04-16 08:42:30
    146.   goofus
    Think maybe the players are smart enough to just not care how anybody pronounces or spells his name as long as those large paychecks clear the bank? I'm starting to have more respect for the players than I do for the fans.
    2008-04-16 08:43:46
    147.   Jon Weisman
    144 - You made some good points, but basically points that had been made already, and I felt the tone was harsh in light of how we're trying to calm things down. Hope you can understand.
    2008-04-16 08:44:07
    148.   scareduck
    139 - absolutely agree.

    2008-04-16 08:46:13
    149.   GobiasIndustries

    No problem at all. I thought after I re-read it that it may have come off that way. My apologies. :)

    2008-04-16 08:46:40
    150.   gpellamjr
    115 "PEHR-sews".
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2008-04-16 08:47:25
    151.   Andrew Shimmin
    Whenever I introduce myself, I always say my name is Wilson Pickett. Easy to pronounce. Also, I like to think that, when the police are (inevitably) called, they get a kick out of being told they're looking for Wilson Pickett. It's a two-fer.
    2008-04-16 08:58:14
    152.   FirstMohican
    I used to cringe every time I hear Jon Miller say "pear-ez". Initially I didn't like how he pronounced half of it correctly, and then Anglicanized (Thanks 111 , my first time using that word) the second half. I'd either say "pur-ez" or "peh-des". Now I actually find it funny and sort of charming.

    FWIW, I had a teacher who asked that we pronounce his name "Gao", but my coworker pronounces it as he spells it "Kao". My last name is butchered daily, but I still couldn't really care less.

    2008-04-16 08:59:08
    153.   Kevin Lewis
    My parents picked some pretty generic names for me and my siblings (Jennifer, Bryan, Karin, Kevin).

    The last time I had dinner at my favorite Mexican restaurant in Pasadena, Chaquita Bonita, the guy laughed at my credit card and told me, "this is the most white boy name I have ever seen." I wasn't offended; I completely agreed with him. For crying out loud I have the same amount of syllables and an "e" and an "i" in the same place for both names. Boring!

    2008-04-16 08:59:24
    154.   blue22
    I was at the Mariners game yesterday and saw what was most likely Hideo Nomo's final appearance in the big leagues. He really didn't have much, though he did get hosed on a couple of calls on tag plays. I was glad that I was able to see him one last time.

    It was quite the Japanese theme yesterday, with Ichiro going up against Nomo one last time (struck him out on a vintage Nomo forkball), Johjima getting 3 hits, Yasuhiko Yabuta pitching an inning for KC, and Trey Hillman making several tortured trips to the mound.

    2008-04-16 09:00:06
    155.   Penarol1916
    150. That's great, that's how I've always pronounced it, now I can keep Greek Mythology geek cred.
    2008-04-16 09:01:21
    156.   CodyS
    The Spanish language is incredibly easy to pronounce. Every letter has one and only one sound. (And that sound is always one of the sounds the letter has in English.)
    And the accent is always on the penultimate syllable unless there is an accent.

    A baseball (a sport with what, 30% Spanish language names?) announcer that doesn't learn these basic rules is just incredibly incompetent. And frankly, it seems racist to be that lazy. It seems like a purposeful effort to make the players with Spanish language names seem like outsiders (and by extension, anybody with a spanish language name unwelcome in the announcer's America).

    Chinese is a different matter, as there are a lot more rules to learn, and the English-language letters and spellings don't match up well to the sounds. It is honestly a matter of some study to learn how to pronounce Chinese written in the English alphabet (indeed because the way it is commonly written in the English alphabet is basically useless. AND there has been more than one system common in our lifetimes).

    2008-04-16 09:01:56
    157.   kinbote
    154 You gotta have [Seattle,] WA.
    2008-04-16 09:10:00
    158.   CanuckDodger
    152 -- Actually, I said "anglicization." I wouldn't correct your "anglicanization" were it not for my suspicion that your word means being turned into a member of the Church of England.
    2008-04-16 09:12:53
    159.   wronghanded
    Not to beat a dead horse, but if I played baseball professionally in China, I wouldn't expect the Chimese culture (media, fans, teamates) to pronounce my name phonetically correct. Often times ESL Chinese-Americans have problems annunciating (sp?) a language they know, so how could I expect someone that doesn't speak English to be correct in pronouncing my name? I kind of think that this is how Hong-Chih feels.
    2008-04-16 09:13:10
    160.   Marty
    I've always pronounced it purr-see-us. You learn something every day.
    2008-04-16 09:14:42
    161.   fanerman
    Maybe we could just convince Diamond or someone with access to the Dodgers to just ask Guo how he likes his name pronounced/spelled and how much he cares about it.
    2008-04-16 09:16:35
    162.   deburns
    Re 111 et al. I had a professor once who was a very bright man and very accomplished linguist, particularly fluent in French, who pronounced foreign place names as if they were English, no matter how familiar to English speakers' ears as pronounced in the foreign language. E.G., Rouen= ruin. Marseilles =marsales. And he insisted on our following suit.
    2008-04-16 09:17:21
    163.   cargill06
    i was at the game the last 2 nights, has anyone noticed if jones has closed his stance a bit recently? i can't really tell from where i sit but it kinda looks like it? it would make sense, it would help him keep that front shoulder in and not pull off the ball so much
    2008-04-16 09:21:04
    164.   wronghanded
    163 I think it's more a case of him not flying open with his front side and staying squared up to the pitcher right up until contact.
    2008-04-16 09:21:33
    165.   Jim Hitchcock
    [117} Count your blessings, least you didn't have to suffer the "any relation to...?"
    nonsense growing up ;)
    2008-04-16 09:22:00
    166.   CodyS
    160 Assuming the point of speaking is communication, you might as well keep saying per-see-us, as that is the only way anybody else will know what you are talking about.
    2008-04-16 09:22:58
    167.   Bob Timmermann
    My mom's maiden name was Hitchcock, so instead her sons just pestered her.
    2008-04-16 09:23:48
    168.   Physics DR
    As a professor in a science field that has a great deal of foreign students I consider it my job to pronounce their names correctly. I work at it.

    The word I use is "courtesy".

    However, as soon as we start talking about the math surrounding a black hole they need to know my language.

    2008-04-16 09:24:50
    169.   kinbote
    Bob--That nugget about Hanrahan is a doozy.
    2008-04-16 09:25:44
    170.   CanuckDodger
    156 -- I have already said that if a player asks that his name be pronounced a certain way, fine, do that, but in the absence of that, what's wrong with standard anglicization? It has nothing to do with how "easy" learning the Spanish pronunciation would be. English-speakers have a language with its own pronunciation conventions, and a long and honored tradition of leaving its mark on foreign words and names, often in the course of assimilating them. Nobody in Los Angeles whose first language isn't Spanish pronounces "Los Angeles," a Spanish name, the way Spanish-speakers would say is the RIGHT way, so why should people who have already anglicized "Los Angeles" (i.e., pretty much the entire population of America) be thought linguistically "lazy" if they anglicize Spanish personal names?
    2008-04-16 09:27:10
    171.   CodyS
    You know who reminds me more of Dave Winfield than Matt Kemp? Jayson Werth.
    If we are just comparing Matt Kemp to random black right fielders, that is a different matter.

    P.S. How nice would a Ethier, Kemp, Werth outfield be, with an extra $90M to spend on whatever. Maybe the Phillies would take Jones and Pierre for Werth. (Werth has a 200 OPS+ this season, btw, so he is worth two average players. ha-ha.)

    2008-04-16 09:27:56
    172.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    Considering how much fun people here have had with Hu being on our team, I think it would be great of Shea Hillenbrand played some professional ball in Taiwan.
    2008-04-16 09:28:56
    173.   wronghanded
    172 "Thanks" Hillenbrand?
    2008-04-16 09:30:05
    174.   fanerman
    To be honest, I'm not sure if I pronounce my name correctly. My name pronounced with a Filipino accent isn't how my parents pronounce it or how they have English-speaking people pronounce it. I think it's just an anglicized thing. It's not really a huge deal to me.
    2008-04-16 09:30:05
    175.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    173 "Who" Hillenbrand
    2008-04-16 09:33:29
    176.   Jon Weisman
    161 - I started rolling that ball about an hour ago with a few people.

    Diamond's a great one to ask because he has talked about how most people think he's a woman based on his name.

    2008-04-16 09:35:24
    177.   Eric Stephen
    I get my name pronounced as "Steffen" every once in a while (it's "Steven"), but at least I don't get as many mispronunciations as this guy:

    2008-04-16 09:35:55
    178.   CodyS
    Is there any merit to the idea that the starting rotation "needs" a left-hander? I could see a diversity of pitching styles and handedness being an asset in a series. On the other hand, being simply a better pitcher is an asset too.
    You would have to do a study somehow teasing out the two effects. How much better do pitchers do when their rotation-mates are similar vs. diverse?
    2008-04-16 09:37:04
    179.   Jon Weisman
    177 - Without even looking at the link:

    "He's in the white pages!"

    2008-04-16 09:37:56
    180.   Jon Weisman
    178 - I have never seen anyone prove that having a lefty matters.
    2008-04-16 09:41:05
    181.   okdodge
    Oklahoma State hires Travis Ford as their new Bball head coach. Anybody know anything about him?
    2008-04-16 09:41:51
    182.   CodyS
    170 Standard anglicizations are typically fine, but aggressive mispronunciation is hostile and sends a message.
    2008-04-16 09:42:41
    183.   Frip
    A fellow named Brock used to come here. Does anyone know why he doesn't anymore?
    2008-04-16 09:43:16
    184.   wronghanded
    178 I think having a lefty in the pen is more important than one in the rotation.
    2008-04-16 09:43:38
    185.   Kevin Lewis

    That brings back memories of staying home sick from school to watch CHiPS

    2008-04-16 09:44:15
    186.   Bob Timmermann
    Travis Ford did a pretty good of getting UMass out of the pits in the A-10 after the mess that Calipari left. The Minutemen came close to making the NCAAs. Ford prefers an uptempo style.

    Brother of guy who covered the A-10 a lot and left this scouting report with me for the UCLA-Xavier game.
    "I haven't seen UCLA play all year, but there is no way Xavier will beat them. They don't have the offense."

    This same brother finished just above the person who turned in a blank bracket for the Griddle contest.

    2008-04-16 09:45:20
    187.   Eric Stephen
    Ding ding ding! I'm way too transparent and predictable. :)
    2008-04-16 09:46:07
    188.   fanerman
    185 My childhood sick days were populated with commercials of Jack Stephan and Eastwood Insurance.
    2008-04-16 09:46:11
    189.   underdog
    My g/f always makes fun of my mispronunciations, which are less commonly names and more often odd words. I don't do it that often, but it's one of her favorite pastimes, so now I do it on purpose. The other night we were watching that British show about the monk played by Derek Jacobi (and I pronounce his name right but does she give me credit, nooooooo), on PBS, and I said, "Oh, good, 'Ca-da-fiel'." Then she said, "Sigh, no, it's 'Cad-fa-el'" and I smiled quietly to myself.

    Then later I looked it up and realized we were both wrong, it's "CAD-vile" and made her buy me coffee.

    I need to get out more.

    2008-04-16 09:46:44
    190.   GoBears
    156. The Spanish language is incredibly easy to pronounce. Every letter has one and only one sound.

    And yet there are regional accents. Argentine Spanish is different than Mexican Spanish. And don't even use the term "Spanish" in parts of Spain unless you want to start a rumble.

    Even Japanese, which is only spoken in one country (other than by expats), which has only national TV media (which tends to homogenize a language) and which is an unaccented language with very standardized pronunciation of both "vowels" and "consonants" has regional variations that are extremely subtle for non-native speakers, but consistent and easy to identify by native speakers.

    2008-04-16 09:46:52
    191.   JoeyP
    186--You mean Bruiser Flynt? Calipari's been gone from UMass a long time. Flynt was the one that took UMass into the crapper.
    2008-04-16 09:47:35
    192.   Jon Weisman
    183 - He's busy at work, I believe. Look for him during summer vacation, maybe?
    2008-04-16 09:48:08
    193.   JoeyP
    181--He was in the movie "The Sixth Man" which starred Marlon Wayans.
    2008-04-16 09:48:29
    194.   underdog
    I'm sorry if this is too political but I was just thinking that someone should tell Matt Kemp that his namesake animal needs some help:

    (It's about Yellowstone-area Bison; don't click if you're not feeling supportive or if it's a rule 5 violation.) But I bet Matt can help!

    2008-04-16 09:50:13
    195.   fanerman
    194 I think I've suggested before that Matt Kemp should start a charity for his namesake.
    2008-04-16 09:53:58
    196.   GoBears
    I have a question for the Latin speakers, esp. gpellamjr: IS Latin pronunciation standardized? I thought I remembered hearing that because it was a dead language for a while (perhaps outside the Catholic Church, which itself was so international that regional variations were inevitable), modern pronunciation of Latin is basically a guess. I ask this question sincerely and out of ignorance, so please correct me if that's wrong.

    I've also heard that there is disagreement about conventions for pluralization in Latin, perhaps because plural vs. singular is expected to be understood by context. So, for example, is the plural of equilibrium "equilibria" or "equilibriums?" Obviously, the problem occurs because Latin words pop up most frequently as singletons in English discourse, requiring a decision about which language's grammatical conventions take precedence.

    And while we're at it, how should one pronounce "bona fide?"

    This has become a very interesting thread. Thanks to Xeifrank for stimulating it.

    2008-04-16 09:55:50
    197.   jasonungar07
    Ungar, like Felix Unger?

    No Ungar like Ungar.

    Happens almost everytime.

    2008-04-16 09:57:35
    198.   Bob Timmermann
    Calipari left UMass with NCAA sanctions and Flint had to deal with that. So I'm giving demerits where demerits are due.
    2008-04-16 09:58:58
    199.   Xeifrank
    If your job is an announcer, you'd think you'd make the effort to learn the correct pronounciation of the names of the players on the team you broadcast for. I can see some players names being too difficult. That is not the case with Guo (Pronounced: "Gwo"). It's one syllable and easy to say. If questioned, I doubt Guo would say it bothers him at all. Chinese people are very humble and often very shy/don't like bringing attention to themselves. I would just like the Dodger announcers to be aware of the correct pronounciation. If I was the one holding a media pass and had contacts within the organization, and did interviews with the announcers themselves, I'd mention it. If they still didn't bother to make an attempt to pronounce it correctly, I probably wouldn't beat a dead horse with them any more. I really don't bring this up too often, only when asked for the most part. I will continue to spell it with a G and not a K and of course others can do as they wish. I have not chastized anyone on this msg board concerning this topic. Yes, perhaps it gets talked about too much, I try not to unless asked (comment #20). That's all I have to say on this... unless asked. :)
    vr, Xeifrank
    2008-04-16 10:03:39
    200.   Jacob Burch
    197 - "...oh, Birch like the tree/Simon?"

    You could always attempt "No, like Stuey" as a mnemonic for about half a percent of the population, but he (nor Felix, I suppose) is exactly a connotation you'd want to live up to.

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2008-04-16 10:03:51
    201.   fanerman
    200 So, I suppose now's as good a time as any to ask how one is supposed to pronounce "Xeifrank." How is it pronounced?
    2008-04-16 10:04:16
    202.   fanerman
    201 should be for 199 .
    2008-04-16 10:04:37
    203.   GoBears
    Yeah, but by (mis)spelling it with a "G" every single time, you're inviting newcomers to ask, and reminding old-timers of the "correct" pronunciation every single time. Why not just use the Chinese character?
    2008-04-16 10:04:40
    204.   GMac In The 909
    Old Yeller™ is going to be on Jim Rome in a few minutes ... if anyone cares.
    2008-04-16 10:11:58
    205.   jasonungar07
    200 lol...totally..Me, I don't care, i just find it funny..
    2008-04-16 10:16:56
    206.   regfairfield
    Fun fact of the day: The Giants head of marketing is named Bryan Srabian.
    2008-04-16 10:17:19
    207.   bhsportsguy
    Bowa hearts Dewitt.
    2008-04-16 10:19:09
    208.   Eric Stephen
    I had to look that up to be sure (I'm not a trusting person), but that's awesome.
    2008-04-16 10:21:07
    209.   bhsportsguy
    Apparently Bowa got fined a large sum of money too.
    2008-04-16 10:21:27
    210.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    After reading the comments here, I just realized that I "mispronounce" (in my head) the name "Xeifrank." I think of it as "Xiefrank," as in "xiexie." I'm pretty sure xei is not a sound in Chinese (is it?), so now I'm curious as to how it's pronounced. Is it pronounced like shea?
    2008-04-16 10:22:09
    211.   Xeifrank
    201. If I make the Dodgers, I will let Charlie know. :)

    The only benefits I could see from having a left handed pitcher in the starting rotation is that you could nuetralize a team with a good left handed hitting lineup. Not sure which team that would be. But like previously opined, just being a good pitcher regardless of which hand you throw with is more important.
    vr, Xei

    2008-04-16 10:22:35
    212.   KG16
    178 - going from a lefty to a righty is a huge change when it comes to arm angles. Also, consider how many 3-4-5 hitters are left handed. Of course the L-R-L-R batting order helps with this.

    And no, I don't have any evidence to back this up whatsoever. Just some baseball conventional wisdom.

    2008-04-16 10:24:18
    213.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    2008-04-16 10:24:39
    214.   MollyKnight
    Can someone remind me why Edwin Jackson was traded? What happened to him that made the brass think he'd lost his luster?
    2008-04-16 10:24:54
    215.   Eric Stephen
    From Buster Olney's blog, he notes:

    Nomar Garciaparra has rejoined the Dodgers, but if he doesn't play regularly -- and he says within [Dylan Hernandez' LA Times] piece that he wants to play every single day -- you wonder how long this situation will last. Blake DeWitt has done a nice job at third base, and you wonder if it would be best all for all involved for the Dodgers to cut ties with Garciaparra and move on

    Interesting that Olney didn't even mention Andy LaRoche, yet still thinks the Dodgers should cut ties with him.

    2008-04-16 10:26:24
    216.   regfairfield
    214 We needed a proven closer with Gagne being unreliable, Jackson wasn't impressing and he was down to two options. I'm guessing Ned figured if he didn't figure it out that year, he'd be near valueless so he traded him when he still had value. This would have been a good idea had he not gotten Danys Baez.
    2008-04-16 10:32:43
    217.   underdog
    Who's got which day in the Nomar Goes Back on the DL Pool? I have him going back on the DL on May 12th, the day I predict Andy LaRoche comes off it.
    2008-04-16 10:33:34
    218.   GMac In The 909
    207 That was a great interview. I heart the passion Bowa brings to the game.
    2008-04-16 10:36:46
    219.   Bob Timmermann
    Do you want to go for a parlay with Mike Hampton and the DL as well?
    2008-04-16 10:37:51
    220.   D4P
    This would have been a good idea had he not gotten Danys Baez

    You mean, Jackson and Tiffany for Lance Carter would have been a good idea...?

    2008-04-16 10:38:30
    221.   Eric Stephen
    Also, consider how many 3-4-5 hitters are left handed

    I did a quick count of last night's MLB starting lineups, and the 3-4-5 hitters broke down as follows:

    Bats R: 51 (56.7%)
    Bats L: 31 (34.4%)
    Bats S: 8 (8.9%)

    I have no idea how that compares to the general batting population as a whole.

    2008-04-16 10:39:01
    222.   Kevin Lewis

    That is our due date! I would be extremely happy to have my son enter the world that day as Nomar goes on the DL.

    I am a sick individual. I have considered putting together a highlight reel of Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Martin and Bills to have playing during delivery. That way he will know who to root for when he enters the world.

    2008-04-16 10:39:23
    223.   Eric Stephen
    I think he meant getting a good reliever instead of Baez.
    2008-04-16 10:43:15
    224.   regfairfield
    That should have said one option, by the way.
    2008-04-16 10:43:35
    225.   Sushirabbit
    222, it might not work that way. My son is already a Diamondbacks fan. I'd hoped the uniform change would bring him back to the fold but it didn't. I have faith in only the dulcet-voiced one to convert him.
    2008-04-16 10:44:50
    226.   underdog
    219 Parlay. I invoke the right of parlay!
    2008-04-16 10:53:26
    227.   scareduck
    190 - And of courth in Analuthia they thpeak with a lithp. (IIRC "z" gets the "th" treatment.) I learned this from a friend who grew up a Navy brat and spent his high school years in Spain.
    2008-04-16 10:54:57
    228.   scareduck
    213 - since I don't have the Chinese font set installed on my computer, that looks like a rectangular block with hexadecimal inside.
    2008-04-16 10:56:43
    229.   scareduck
    194 - but bison is so tasty! (To our dogs.)
    2008-04-16 11:11:48
    230.   KingKopitar
    178 Just my opinion, but I doubt having a left hander in the line-up helps the right handers in any way. These guys have faced so much right-handed pitching so many times that it's basically become routine where the ball is going to come from. You have to adjust to the left-hander, but you don't have to adjust back to the right-hander because you've seen it so many times.

    And a rotation could have 5 left-handers in it and I don't think they'd really help or hurt each other, since the teams wouldn't face them enough to get used to it.

    2008-04-16 11:15:31
    231.   Eric Stephen
    I doubt having a left hander in the line-up helps the right handers in any way

    In 2007, MLB right-handed hitters fared thusly:

    vs. RHP: .261/.320/.407
    vs. LHP: .281/.351/.447

    2008-04-16 11:17:13
    232.   KingKopitar
    Sorry, I meant the other right-handers in the rotation.
    2008-04-16 11:17:57
    233.   CodyS
    215 Nomar is a great character, team-first leader. Otherwise Colletti would not have signed him. Play every day, every once in a while, as long as the team wins, he doesn't care. He already showed his great team spirit by pointing out how often the team won games when he was in the starting lineup and hitting .260 with no power. Didn't matter to him how he was hitting as long as the team won. I'm sure it also doesn't matter to him if he plays, as long as the team wins. To imply otherwise, would suggest that he is an individualist or a mercenary or something, and that can't possibly be true because Colletti signed him.
    2008-04-16 11:20:31
    234.   Eric Stephen
    Jeff Kent's HR last night was the 368th of his HOF career, tying him for 64th on the all-time MLB HR list, with...

    Andruw Jones.

    2008-04-16 11:22:43
    235.   Bob Timmermann
    That statement is just begging for the incorrect use of "ironic."
    2008-04-16 11:24:14
    236.   Dark Horse
    233-Look, for all the sarcasm dripping off this post, all Garciaparra said was that he would like to play every day. Most players would, and if one is to believe Andy LaRoche, Nomar actually showed his stripes by treating LaRoche generously in spring training. (What were LaRoche's exact words? "A class act?") I greatly prefer DeWitt, and I prefer LaRoche to either, but Nomar's saying he "would like to" play every day isn't unto itself a problem. It might be, if he doesn't hit and yet plays anyway, but it seems a little early to get worked up about that.
    2008-04-16 11:26:03
    237.   El Lay Dave
    235 LOL - Ken Levine (of all people) did exactly that to kick off Dodger Talk on the radio last night. I would not have expected Ken Levine to be an abuser of that word.
    2008-04-16 11:27:53
    238.   Kevin Lewis

    Excellent response

    2008-04-16 11:31:31
    239.   KingKopitar
    233 Yeah, if I didn't know you were kidding I would have agreed with everything you wrote except for the last part of the last sentence. Has there ever been any indication that Nomar isn't awesome as a person?
    2008-04-16 11:32:15
    240.   madmac
    236 right. I'd have a problem if he said he didn't care whether or not he played. If he said that then how many people would pile on that he's only there for the money and not about helping the team. I happen to think Nomar has something to offer the team if he is healthy. I don't think that he is holding anyone back at this point.
    2008-04-16 11:40:55
    241.   gibsonhobbs88
    I'm just hoping the Dodgers tonight don't repeat what they did the day after they scored 11 runs the last time :(! I have tickets for tonight's game. I'm sure Penny was thinking the same thing, "oh great 11 runs and then nothing for me, tomorrow". Tonight, they face Maholm, then that struck out Billy Crystal in his only at bat this spring in a Yankee uniform after Billy got one good hard foul swing off of him. Since he's a lefty, we should see Kemp instead of Pierre again, I would hope and pray!! I'll settle for a 5-2 win tonight and seven strong from Penny and no bullpen blowups tonight.
    2008-04-16 11:42:50
    242.   gibsonhobbs88
    241 - oops I meant to say "the man that struck out" - hnads working faster than the brain again!!
    2008-04-16 11:43:33
    243.   CodyS
    It is obviously unrealistic for Nomar to play every single day for this team. So saying he wants to serves no team goal.
    2008-04-16 11:44:03
    244.   madmac
    242 I have the same problem with my hands :)
    2008-04-16 11:44:17
    245.   underdog
    I for one am always happy to have Nomar on the team. I just am less happy with the idea of depending on him as a starter. I think the Dodgers are smarter about that now. Maybe he is, too. If LaRoche comes back healthy and clicks, maybe Nomar will be cut, as Olney implies, but I still see them holding on to him as a backup, and I don't picture him griping about that. He has to know - I hope he does anyway - that his body just can't stand up to playing every day. We'll see how it all plays out. But I don't have a problem with Nomar and certainly don't mind him as someone off the bench. But to start every day will not be a good idea; certainly won't last very long.
    2008-04-16 11:47:52
    246.   Eric Stephen
    I just had one of the greatest things ever delivered - the 1988 Dodgers World Series Collector's Edition DVD (image here:

    There are 7 total DVDs -- one for each game of the World Series, plus Games 4 (the Scioscia HR) and 7 (ho hum, Hershiser shutout) of the NLCS, plus bonus footage as well.

    On the back of each DVD case is the boxscore of that game. I just noticed that the umpires for the 1988 NLCS were a pretty stellar, or at least famous crew:

    Dutch Rennert, Balkin' Bob Davidson, Paul Runge, Harry Wendelstedt, John McSherry, and Joe West (fresh off his award-winning performance in Naked Gun)

    2008-04-16 11:48:59
    247.   madmac
    and it's not as if Nomar is making threats. I've got such bad knees now that I can't do nearly what I used to. That hasn't stopped me from saying I'd like to ....
    2008-04-16 11:49:08
    248.   El Lay Dave
    241 Torre was on the record last night saying the Ethier would have the day off and Pierre would start.
    2008-04-16 11:50:07
    249.   Jon Weisman
    Sons of Steve Garvey got linked by Rob Neyer today. Congrats, boys.
    2008-04-16 11:50:21
    250.   Eric Stephen
    What player doesn't want to play everyday? It's one thing to say you want to play everyday, and another to complain if you are not. I don't think Nomar is at the complaining stage yet, so it's unreasonable to take him to task for something he hasn't yet done.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2008-04-16 11:50:50
    251.   jasonungar07
    What's wrong with just saying, I am not 100 percent but want to help the team in any way possible. Nomar cares most about his next contract.
    2008-04-16 11:51:15
    252.   Bluebleeder87
    IF La Roche comes back healthy & stays healthy I think I would have a problem with Nomar but We shall see what unfolds in the 3rd base saga
    2008-04-16 11:52:40
    253.   KingKopitar
    When Nomar and Laroche come back, why wouldn't we cut Mark Sweeney? I see no reason why Delwyn can't do his job.
    2008-04-16 11:53:48
    254.   Eric Stephen
    I don't think any team in baseball will sign Nomar to anything more than a one-year deal in 2009, most likely with a low base salary (under $4m) with incentives.
    2008-04-16 11:54:38
    255.   GoBears
    I've always liked Nomar, despite his infuriating approach at the plate. He was my favorite non-Dodger when he was in Boston. There was some talk about his being a negative influence in the clubhouse the year he was ultimately traded to Chicago (followed by the BoSox WS win). But my main problem with him now has nothing to do with him as a person - it's that his veteranness (like Pierre's) is too proven to leave on the bench. Maybe, as underdog says, Torre can better resist that temptation than Little could.
    2008-04-16 11:54:42
    256.   Kevin Lewis

    Extreme jealousy on my end.

    2008-04-16 11:58:05
    257.   Eric Enders
    Instead of J.P., why can't we have an Ethier-sits, Delwyn-Young-starts game? I'd like to see Young start at least one non-garbage-time game in his Dodger career before he goes on to finish, let's say, third on the Devil Rays lifetime home run list.
    2008-04-16 11:59:31
    258.   elandcohen
    totally off topic. Does anyone know why the Dodgers released Ron Kittle one year after signing him? He won rookie of the year in 83 for the White Sox. The whole giving up on Edwin Jackson WAY too soon got me thinking about this.
    2008-04-16 12:01:43
    259.   underdog
    257 Yah, I suggested that a few days ago. Of course, the Dodgers don't really care what I have to say, but from an offense standpoint I sure wouldn't mind a Kemp-Jones-Young lineup for once. Give the guy a start now and then.

    Er, but I don't quite see your prediction at the end there happening...

    2008-04-16 12:06:49
    260.   Bob Timmermann
    The Dodgers didn't have a place to play for Kittle in the outfield. The Dodgers had Baker for left, Landreaux and Monday in center, and Reggie Smith in right. Kittle would not have been an improvement And Kittle was a really bad outfielder. He only played in the outfield for the White Sox because they had Greg Luzinski at the time.

    When Kittle won ROY in 1983 he struck out 150 times and walked 39.

    The 1983 White Sox won the AL West with an outfield that often consisted of Kittle in left, Rudy Law in center, and Baines in right.

    Law was an early version of Juan Pierre. Kittle was a young Luzinski. And Baines became a fulltime DH in 1987.

    2008-04-16 12:07:51
    261.   Neal Pollack
    Can someone remind me for whom we traded Paul Konerko? We had to suffer through a lot of mediocre Karros years...
    2008-04-16 12:08:06
    262.   Bob Timmermann
    Jeff Shaw!
    2008-04-16 12:08:32
    263.   Eric Stephen
    Jeff Shaw.
    2008-04-16 12:09:00
    264.   Eric Stephen
    Why do I even try? :)
    2008-04-16 12:12:49
    265.   Kevin Lewis
    It's like a gun draw, and Bob will always win
    2008-04-16 12:13:34
    266.   Kevin Lewis

    Of course that wouldn't happen, since it would be for "the Rays".

    2008-04-16 12:15:24
    267.   TopCat
    201 , 210 Perhaps "Xeifrank" is not meant to be spoken nor uttered verbally at all. Quite possibly it is meant to be a rather distinctive visual cue only, to be processed within the individual brain at the whim of personal reference. The "vr," while having a classy edge to it, has aroused my interest as well. I assume it mean something like "cheers," or "regards."
    2008-04-16 12:21:11
    269.   underdog
    Those TV nerds among you (cover your eyes Xei) will be excited to know that on May 20, Square Pegs The Complete Series will arrive on DVD. Sarah Jessica Parker as a geeky, gawky teen!

    Less exciting on that day: Charles in Charge season 3.

    Now back to baseball chat.

    2008-04-16 12:24:48
    270.   Jon Weisman
    264 - You can't leave Tiger Woods out there by himself...
    2008-04-16 12:25:13
    271.   Bob Timmermann
    That's because I've got the big iron on my hip.

    Big iron on his hip....

    2008-04-16 12:25:38
    272.   Jon Weisman
    269 - It's going to be a thin DVD, so to speak.
    2008-04-16 12:26:00
    273.   Eric Stephen
    I believe Jeff Shaw was the first player in MLB history to first wear his team's uniform for the first time in an All-Star game. Shaw was traded on July 4, 1998, for Konerko and "Future Fernando" Dennys Reyes.

    The All-Star game was in Coors Field on July 7, and Shaw pitched the 8th inning in a Dodger uniform. He would not pitch for the Dodgers until July 10.

    2008-04-16 12:26:10
    274.   Telemachos
    Speaking of pronunciation, hopefully Dodger fans will need to learn how to say "Yu Darvish". :)

    I studied classics in college (as might be obvious from my DT nickname) and it always was amusing how different the "correct" ancient pronunciation was from how the names are typically pronounced. Cicero, to add another example, should be pronounced "kih-kih-roh", although aside from a few over-enthusiastic students, everyone (including the professors) used the more typical pronunciation.

    2008-04-16 12:28:04
    275.   El Lay Dave
    260 Kittle was also in the Dodger organization for only one year after being signed as an undrafted player. He was release mid-season at age 20 1/2, so I'd guess he must have been pretty raw at the time.
    2008-04-16 12:29:20
    276.   Eric Stephen
    Before today I was unaware Ron Kittle was ever in the Dodger organization. Hooray Dodger Thoughts!
    2008-04-16 12:31:59
    277.   bhsportsguy
    Was Kuo a one-pitch pitcher last night? From where I sat at the Stadium, he could not throw anything but a 88-91 fastball to get anyone out.
    2008-04-16 12:33:19
    278.   underdog
    272 True, though not as thin as I expected. 3 discs, twenty episodes. A new featurette and interviews, too. Take that, Charles in Charge!
    2008-04-16 12:34:29
    279.   Dark Horse
    274-Perhaps we'd even bat him in the 8th slot. Hu could hit behind him.
    2008-04-16 12:35:16
    280.   Bob Timmermann
    Rob Neyer violates Rule 13 in his blog.
    2008-04-16 12:36:00
    281.   Jon Weisman
    274 - When I was a kid, my cousin once tried to convince me to say "Boston Celtics" with a hard C.
    2008-04-16 12:36:52
    282.   DGutierrez32
    Can somebody answer a random (albeit Dodger related) question for me? I'm wondering why Duaner Sanchez was traded away, and I'm also wondering what the reactions were around DT.
    2008-04-16 12:37:18
    283.   scareduck
    249 - where?
    2008-04-16 12:37:19
    284.   Jon Weisman
    280 - not for the first time. But reports of rule 13 violations are rule 13 violations. It's the never-ending admonition.
    2008-04-16 12:38:19
    285.   Jon Weisman
    282 -
    2008-04-16 12:39:01
    286.   Bob Timmermann
    Rule 13 is the violation that dare not speak its name.
    2008-04-16 12:39:14
    287.   Jon Weisman
    283 -
    2008-04-16 12:39:29
    288.   underdog
    282 I don't remember a lot of dispute or feelings strongly one way or the other on that one, but at the time I liked the idea of Jae Seo, and it seemed like the Dodgers needed another potential starter. Sanchez seemed like he was on the downswing, too. I'd hoped Steve Schmoll would be useful, but since he wasn't, was hard to miss him either. Hamulack was useless, too. Then Seo turned out to be a disappointment, too. So much for that one.
    2008-04-16 12:39:41
    289.   StolenMonkey86
    Honestly, I expect Nomar to get hurt again before LaRoche gets off the DL. After all, he's no Juan Pierre.
    2008-04-16 12:39:47
    290.   Disabled List
    273 I remember that well. It's always a little weird at first to see a new player in a Dodger uniform after a trade, but that was even weirder than usual.
    2008-04-16 12:41:28
    291.   underdog
    285 Hah hah. funny to read my comments now on that one, which were about what I'd expecting them to be, but still...

    "I think your write-up is dead-on, Jon, and although I like Sanchez, I agree that the opportunity to get another quality starter is too good to pass up, and that as a reliever Sanchez is more disposable. (Now I do wish we still had Mota, though, obviously...) But the Dodgers have kids in the minors who could replace him in the bullpen - Broxton, Kuo, etc."

    Oh well, so much for quality starter...

    2008-04-16 12:42:19
    292.   underdog
    But I mentioned Broxton and Kuo at least!
    2008-04-16 12:46:49
    293.   blue22
    Interesting transaction for the Red Sox just occurred: Alex Cora to the DL, Jumpin' Joe Thurston recalled from AAA.
    2008-04-16 12:48:07
    294.   scareduck
    282 - Duaner Sanchez was traded because the Dodgers needed a starting pitcher. The Mets had a starter to burn, Jae Seo, who turned out to be absolutely horrible; you could see some upside to the deal (he had a 2.59 ERA the previous year with New York) but there was the risk he was turning into a pumpkin. Eventually the Dodgers unloaded him for Toby Hall and Mark Hendrickson.

    I was okay with it at the time, considering that getting a starting pitcher with some upside should, in theory, always be better than a short reliever, said relievers by nature being ephemeral in their effectiveness (see Guillermo Mota and Eric Gagne, among others in recent Dodger history). Unfortunately, Seo never pitched like his 2005 indicated he might, and he got exiled to the land of final acts, i.e. Tampa. Having looked on as a similar move also backfired for the Mariners (see Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez), I'm quite a bit more chary of such trades these days.

    2008-04-16 12:48:10
    295.   regfairfield
    The Seo trade made me very weary of any pitcher who only brought control to the table.
    2008-04-16 12:51:27
    296.   D4P
    The Seo trade made me very weary of any pitcher who only brought control to the table

    I suspect you mean either "wary" or "leary" instead of "weary".

    If I had a dollar for every time I've seen/heard that, the number of dollars I would have would be equal to X, where X is equal to the number of times I've seen/heard that.

    2008-04-16 12:51:51
    297.   Xeifrank
    277. Guo's pitches from his last inning of work.

    vs Nady
    73 mph curve
    93 fb
    93 fb
    91 fb (single)
    vs Paulino
    92 fb
    91 fb
    91 fb (strike out)
    vs J.Bautista
    91 fb
    90 fb
    92 fb
    vs C.Gomez
    92 fb
    91 fb
    in the first inning Guo was wild and 12 of his balls were on fastballs, 3 on sliders and 2 on curve balls. It's possible he was overthrowing early in the game. His velocity did come down from 95mph in the first inning to 90-93 by the 4th inning.
    vr, Xei

    2008-04-16 12:52:28
    298.   elandcohen
    Thank you sir
    2008-04-16 12:54:25
    299.   Jon Weisman
    293 - Hey, Joe!
    2008-04-16 12:55:42
    300.   OhioBlues12
    296 - Wierd, I had a very similar exchange with a co-worker about two hours ago using those three exact words.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2008-04-16 12:56:52
    301.   blue22
    297 - I also thought he was getting squeezed on a few close ones. It looked like he was throwing well, just not getting any love from the ump.
    2008-04-16 12:57:16
    302.   D4P
    I'm tellin' ya': it happens a lot.
    2008-04-16 12:57:59
    303.   Jon Weisman
    294 - My conclusion at the time:

    "You could even argue that if Sanchez is the better pitcher, then work should begin immediately to convert him into a starter. It may not have been intentional, but in some ways Sanchez has had all the right preparation for the conversion - he has pitched and become adept in every other role: long man, set-up man and closer. He knows every kind of game situation except facing the first batter of the game. And he wasn't burned out in his early 20s.

    Yes, a Sanchez-to-starter experiment could be a failure - maybe he was a born reliever, if there is such a thing - but the experiment is not exactly a risk one should be afraid to take. There isn't too much to lose.

    Given their current roster makeup, it's a fine idea for the Dodgers to explore getting a starting pitcher in exchange for Sanchez - whether it is Seo or Sanchez himself."

    I wonder what would have happened if we tried to convert Sanchez.

    2008-04-16 13:00:24
    304.   scareduck
    303 - he would have been involved in a taxicab accident and buggered up his shoulder, the same as in New York. :-)
    2008-04-16 13:00:55
    305.   D4P
    I wonder what would have happened if we tried to convert Sanchez

    Who knows. It could have set off a chain of unforeseen events that would ultimately result in one or more of us dying in the past 3 years.


    2008-04-16 13:03:09
    306.   cargill06
    where did you see 95? the stadium gun had him topped out at 92
    2008-04-16 13:05:41
    307.   Eric Enders
    I think you mean "leery" and not "leary." (Unless the control pitcher in question also happens to be a really good hitter.)
    2008-04-16 13:06:08
    308.   silverwidow
    306 It's been mentioned numerous times that the Dodger Stadium radar gun is slow.

    Gameday/Pitch FX is more accurate.

    2008-04-16 13:08:45
    309.   D4P
    I'm tellin' ya': it's confusing.
    2008-04-16 13:09:06
    310.   underdog
    296 Can't you try a little tenderness?
    2008-04-16 13:10:25
    311.   Eric Stephen

    I love Tim Leary:
    1) 17 wins in 1988
    2) The game above
    3) Quality relief in Game 1 of the '88 WS
    4) He got us Kal Daniels
    5) Shared a name with a psychedelic doctor

    2008-04-16 13:12:39
    312.   D4P
    Good idea. We all need a little tenderness. Without it, love is not likely to survive, particularly given the gracelessness of this age.
    2008-04-16 13:15:20
    313.   Marty
    Whenever I hear Try a Little Tenderness I think of how Barbara Walters would sing it.
    2008-04-16 13:17:08
    314.   Bluebleeder87
    the scary thing is that he [Bob] is probably even better at history trivia
    2008-04-16 13:17:18
    315.   natepurcell
    I know its early but Kershaw's walk rates are down a good amount from last year.
    2008-04-16 13:18:30
    316.   D4P
    I know its early but Kershaw's walk rates are down a good amount from last year

    I know it's late,
    I know you're weary,

    2008-04-16 13:19:41
    317.   underdog
    Nook: Oh she may get wooly, women do get wooly, because of all the stress...

    Crash: Gimme that. (takes guitar) I hate people who get the words wrong. It ain't "woolly" it's "weary" and it nobody's got stress, they're wearing a dress.

    2008-04-16 13:19:47
    318.   Eric Enders
    Young lefties, they do get weary.
    2008-04-16 13:20:23
    319.   underdog
    (minus the "it" there)
    2008-04-16 13:21:18
    320.   natepurcell
    For those in the know, I saw Pelican play last night.

    Prettyyyy awesome.

    2008-04-16 13:22:00
    321.   Jon Weisman
    313 - Like this? SFW

    2008-04-16 13:22:33
    322.   Marty
    320 Was anything stolen out of your car?
    2008-04-16 13:23:40
    323.   natepurcell

    No but I did let a homeless man wash my windshield with his spray bottle and some newspapers.

    He did such a good job I gave him 3 bucks!

    2008-04-16 13:25:19
    324.   DGutierrez32
    Thank you all for your responses in reference to Duaner. I always liked the guy and continue to root for him, as well as Edwin Jackson.
    2008-04-16 13:28:07
    325.   El Lay Dave
    285 Old threads are great. The perfectly prescient post:

    76. Marty 2006-01-04 13:46:05
    OT: Old friend Fred Savage has a new sitcom on ABC called Crumbs with Jane Curtain and Willam Devane(!). It's about a dsyfunctional family, where the Curtain charactor has just been released from a psychiatric hospital. Hilarity is supposed to ensue, but I have my doubts.

    Canceled after five episodes aired.

    2008-04-16 13:28:42
    326.   silverwidow
    315 He was blade sharp in spring, so it's no surprise that he's doing well.
    2008-04-16 13:29:46
    327.   Xeifrank
    306. As 308 pointed out, from Gameday Pitch f/x.
    vr, Xei
    2008-04-16 13:33:35
    328.   ToyCannon
    One of my favorite's players, not the least which was his name. I grew up listening to the psychedelic Moody Blues and the Timothy Leary tune is embedded deep. I expect when I'm an incoherent old man, the tune will embarrass me, but I won't be aware of it. Maybe some acid will get me through those days.
    2008-04-16 13:34:41
    329.   D4P
    Maybe some acid will get me through those days

    "Guess I better heroin up this orange juice"

    2008-04-16 13:36:13
    330.   underdog
    325 Not sure how close to Nostradamus Marty is for his doubts there, but we'll give him credit anyway.
    2008-04-16 13:42:32
    331.   MC Safety
    I love how Fred Savage is considered an old friend.
    2008-04-16 13:46:25
    332.   DGutierrez32
    Anyone catch Peavy's interview with Jim Rome? Rome said something about Peavy getting guys out with his fastball or his "dirty slider". I thought it was a funny choice of words...
    2008-04-16 13:46:38
    333.   Linkmeister
    177 Eric Stephen, I feel your pain. My first name is pronounced and spelled the same way as your last name, and it's often mispronounced "Steffen." I correct people. Always. It's reflexive.

    And the "any relation to?" bit doesn't happen as much as it used to, but my last name is the same as a certain male singer who was involved in the Janet Jackson Super Bowl incident a few years back. For a while there...

    2008-04-16 13:46:53
    334.   madmac
    Not sure if this has been mentioned or posted, but just in case. Pretty good deal on Dodger tickets.

    2008-04-16 13:47:07
    335.   CodyS
    For Nomar to say he wants to play "every single day" means he wants LaRoche to never ever play. There's no real two ways around it.
    2008-04-16 13:50:04
    336.   silverwidow
    The package Florida received from Detroit looks like complete garbage so far aside from Cameron Maybin.
    2008-04-16 13:52:30
    337.   regfairfield
    336 To start with, it looked like garbage outside of Miller and Maybin so it's not much of a shock. I'm not a huge fan of Miller either.
    2008-04-16 13:53:33
    338.   Eric Enders
    335 Perhaps he envisions a role for Andy as left fielder-pinch hitter-defensive replacement.
    2008-04-16 13:57:25
    339.   Kevin Lewis
    Who was the last person to hit a home run completely out of Dodger Stadium?
    2008-04-16 13:58:24
    340.   fanerman
    355 Really? Nomar is so selfless in his selfishness? "If I don't play everyday, that means LaRoche will play, and I certainly can't have that." It doesn't seem more likely to you that Nomar wants to play everyday because he likes to play everyday? That he was thinking at the time that he just wants to play and not about what that might mean for the team's other third basemen?

    Sorry, I don't understand what's so offensive about that comment. I'd think Nomar (and any other athlete) to be insane if he didn't want to play everyday.

    2008-04-16 13:59:19
    341.   regfairfield
    339 McGwire.
    2008-04-16 13:59:37
    342.   fanerman
    That first 5 should be a 3.
    2008-04-16 14:00:22
    343.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
    268 I thought the vr stood for "vociferously reminding-us-of-pronunciation-crusades"?
    2008-04-16 14:05:57
    344.   madmac
    340 there wasn't anything wrong with Nomar's comment.

    335 that seems like quite a leap to make. I don't agree.

    2008-04-16 14:06:48
    345.   Andrew Shimmin
    335- The other way to look at it is as a throw away line that means nothing, but sounds like what a player in his position is supposed to say.
    2008-04-16 14:06:50
    346.   Eric Enders
    Wanting to play everyday and demanding to play everyday are two very different things, and it appears that Nomar only did the former, although I suppose he could have been subtly doing the latter.
    2008-04-16 14:06:58
    347.   Jon Weisman
    I've corrected every person who has ever called me "Jonathan" except Bob Costas.
    2008-04-16 14:07:59
    348.   GobiasIndustries
    Sorry if this is a repost but Jose Lima was cut by Kia Tigers in Korea.

    This paragraph made me laugh out loud:

    Korean baseball teams are known for giving foreign players short leashes, but Lima's still comes as a bit of a surprise. Expectations of the Tigers were high going into 2008, in large part because the team had four players with major league experience –Choi Hee-seop, Seo Jae-weong, Wilson Valdez and Lima.

    2008-04-16 14:09:33
    349.   madmac
    347 name dropper ;)
    2008-04-16 14:10:12
    350.   D4P
    One thing that stands out so far about the DBacks is that they score a lot of runs but don't give up many.

    They must have a good manager.

    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2008-04-16 14:10:23
    351.   Bob Timmermann
    Old friend news:
    2008-04-16 14:11:20
    352.   JoeyP
    336--Its a bit too early to completely write off Miller.

    But with the Dodgers loaded farm system, it was absolutely mind blowing they werent a player for Miguel Cabrera.

    I guess Bhsportsguy will tell me he never was interested in coming to LA...

    2008-04-16 14:11:37
    353.   Bob Timmermann
    Frank Del Olmo called Jon "the other gentleman."
    2008-04-16 14:13:15
    354.   ToyCannon
    If Kershaw pans out, we should be eternally gratefull to the Tigers for taking A Miller (the sure bet) over the high school gamble.
    Also don't forget to thank KC for taking Hochevar.
    What's that rule again about how college pitchers are safer then High School pitchers?
    2008-04-16 14:13:47
    355.   Eric Enders
    "Its a bit too early to completely write off Miller."

    I think a general rule of baseball is that if you have a really tall, left-handed, hard-throwing former first round pick named Miller who happens to be struggling, it's pretty much always too early to write him off.

    2008-04-16 14:13:50
    356.   Marty
    353 And look what that got him.
    2008-04-16 14:13:50
    357.   Jon Weisman
    349 - So true.
    2008-04-16 14:17:42
    358.   CodyS
    Nomar is not an idiot; he knows the situation. It is clear he is saying he wants to play to the exclusion of others.

    Let's look at a parallel situation. Mia Hamm has an affair with LaRoche, and it becomes public knowledge. LaRoche says in the media that he would like to sleep with Mia every night. How do you interpret what LaRoche is saying without thinking he means that Nomar & Mia should not sleep together any night ever? (Assuming no menage a trois).

    2008-04-16 14:17:44
    359.   natepurcell

    The Tigers are probably saying the same thing right now.

    2008-04-16 14:18:38
    360.   natepurcell

    LoL, interesting example...

    2008-04-16 14:19:51
    361.   Bob Timmermann
    I live in a Euclidean geometry based world and I don't see the parallel.
    2008-04-16 14:23:41
    362.   JoeyP
    Also don't forget to thank KC for taking Hochevar.

    That didnt matter in the Dodgers taking Kershaw. Its not like they would have taken Hochevar again if he had dropped down.

    2008-04-16 14:23:47
    363.   Eric Enders
    358 Well, carrying that unfortunate metaphor to its lamentable conclusion, menages a trois happen often in baseball, and Joe Torre has shown an affinity for them in the past. (And also in the present, given the time-sharing arrangement between Kemp and Pierre.)

    Again, every player wants to play. It's human nature. If a guy says he doesn't feel like playing all the time, that's probably a guy I don't want on my team, unless he's a long-established pinch hitter like Saenz or Sweeney.

    That's why we have managers -- to decide things like, despite the fact that Jason Repko and Angel Chavez would like to play every day, they simply aren't good enough. If Nomar's good enough to play every day, he will; if he's not, he probably won't.

    2008-04-16 14:24:23
    364.   D4P
    My guess on tonight's lineup:


    2008-04-16 14:24:55
    365.   Eric Enders
    I think at this point we should think of the third base position as more of an open marriage.
    2008-04-16 14:24:59
    366.   natepurcell

    But Detroit would have taken Kershaw if Miller had not been available.

    2008-04-16 14:25:23
    367.   regfairfield
    362 If they wouldn't have done that, they would have taken Miller and the Tigers would have got Kershaw.
    2008-04-16 14:25:38
    368.   Kevin Lewis

    I am baffled by that example. No one is saying Nomar is an idiot, but what do you expect him to say to the paper? No matter what he is aware of the high possibility that he will be a bench player in the future. If he is healthy enough to give it a go and be productive, than more power to him. I really don't get what you are trying to prove.

    2008-04-16 14:25:57
    369.   Eric Stephen
    It is clear he is saying he wants to play to the exclusion of others

    But, is this a bad thing? Everyone should want to play everyday. But, if they don't get to, and complain about it, then we can give them grief about it. Nomar has done nothing to date from this standpoint to warrant any ill will toward him.

    2008-04-16 14:26:25
    370.   Bob Timmermann
    I think the Dodgers should use nine batters.
    2008-04-16 14:26:57
    371.   Eric Enders
    370 Yeah, but they already announced that Pierre is playing.
    2008-04-16 14:26:58
    372.   JoeyP
    What's that rule again about how college pitchers are safer then High School pitchers?

    Lincecum and Joba look rather safe at this point.

    2008-04-16 14:28:26
    373.   JoeyP
    367--Are you sure the Tigers wouldnt have taken Hochevar? If any team could have met his contract demands, its the Tigers.
    2008-04-16 14:29:13
    374.   Sushirabbit
    RIP, Tommy Holmes
    2008-04-16 14:29:54
    375.   natepurcell

    Sure ...what's happened to Greg Reynolds, Brad Lincoln, etc, etc.

    All pitchers are risks. Studies have shown that the difference in risk between HS pitchers and college pitchers as a whole, are minimal.

    It still depends on the people picking them.

    2008-04-16 14:30:27
    376.   Eric Enders
    373 Yes, it's been documented that the Tigers would have taken Kershaw. It's been discussed ad nauseam here before.
    2008-04-16 14:32:52
    377.   natepurcell
    I personally don't have a huge bias between prep pitchers or college pitchers...I just would want the best pitcher. Pertaining to the Dodgers though, at their draft positions over the White era, the best pitchers available often happen to come from the prep ranks due to all the older arms being snatched up in the higher picks.
    2008-04-16 14:34:06
    378.   Marty
    The last paragraph of Posnanski's latest post is like a kick to the stomach.

    2008-04-16 14:36:27
    379.   Eric Enders
    The main reason college pitchers are safer is because they're already past the injury nexus to a certain degree. Let's say Kershaw blows out his arm right now, at age 20. If he had gone to college, he'd be pitching for Baylor right now and nobody would waste a really high pick on him with an arm injury.

    Let's say a pitcher's going to reach the majors at 23. If you pick him out of high school, you have to pray he avoids injury for five more years. If you pick him out of college, you only have to pray he avoids injury for two years before getting called up.

    2008-04-16 14:37:54
    380.   Eric Enders
    Actually, I think Kershaw was a Texas A&M commitment. It was Loney who was going to Baylor.

    Which makes me doubly glad that both were signed to pro contracts.

    2008-04-16 14:39:30
    381.   natepurcell

    If we aren't allowed to talk about no hitters, no mention of this hypothetical situation should take place.

    Needs to be deleted.

    2008-04-16 14:40:07
    382.   Jon Weisman
    Two new posts up top.

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