Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
So, suddenly the starting pitching is collapsing, right? Or is it?
"In 16 of their 35 games this season, Dodgers starters haven't pitched past the fifth inning," Ken Gurnick writes at MLB.com. That's ugly and true, but things were actually looking better until this week began. Here's the ledger for the top four starting pitchers since the woebegone Atlanta series:
The first thing to notice is that until four days ago, the front four were holding their own as far as innings, reaching five innings in 11 consecutive games. I also might argue that a five-inning start in Colorado is at least the equivalent of a six-inning start elsewhere. If you're willing to grant that, the front four made it to six innings or more in nine of 11 games. Now, six innings isn't seven and seven isn't eight, but when you're carrying a seven-man bullpen and have off days, the endurance of the starting pitching really isn't as much of a crisis as you might initially think.
In addition, Joe Torre is as responsible as anyone for the fact that Dodger starters haven't pitched as deeply in games as people would like. Four times, Torre brought the hook when the pitcher was holding down the opposition and hadn't reached 100 pitches yet. I'm not saying he was wrong to do so each time - this includes Torre pinch-hitting for Penny in the top of the sixth at Colorado on May 2 during the seven-run rally from a 3-0 deficit, for example - but it's a factor in evaluating how long the starters have pitched.
Now, I've left the No. 5 starter out of the conversation to this point. It's not that he doesn't matter, but I just don't know how you judge Esteban Loaiza and Hong-Chih Kuo on innings pitched when neither has been given the opportunity to build up innings. Kuo has had six outings of three innings or more, three as a starter, three as a reliever. Add up those appearances, and you get 21 2/3 innings, 17 hits, eight walks and 28 strikeouts. Torre has a bonafide starting pitching candidate here, and he has chosen to keep him in the bullpen. Maybe he's right to do it, but when you make that kind of choice, your starting pitching misses an opportunity to be effective.
Look, Lowe and Kuroda have been in slumps, and Penny just had one of the worst outings of his career and has a declining strikeout rate that recalls Odalis Perez, and some people are always uptight about Billingsley. As far as the Dodger starting pitching is concerned, this isn't 1965. But every member of the rotation is capable of doing better, and that's even before you look into the minors at Clayton Kershaw (33 1/3 innings, 1.09 ERA, 37 strikeouts). I'm not convinced there's a major concern here. Either Torre needs to learn to let his starters run longer when they're pitching efficiently, or he needs to learn to stop worrying and love his middle relief.
Gasol, a novice in these deeper waters, proved he also can sink.
Handed its first real test of June-worthiness, that great basketball brain flunked.
Faced with its first playoff adversity, that gentle smile became a whine.
Jarred for the first time with playoff desperation, those beautiful passes were junked.
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I swear it's like mad libs.
Penny does have one of if not the best W-L records in the league over the last couple years, so something is working--except for very recent outings. IIRC, his usual second-half decline wasn't as bad last year.
Question: a recent story said Penny "let" Maddux call one of his 2006 starts by looking into the dugout and getting pitch calls by Maddux's looking at different parts of the park. The results were good.
Exactly how would this have worked? IIRC, the catcher calls the game...maybe Martin was the one looking in at Maddux. Or maybe Penny's not above blowing a bit of smoke?
"This simply isn't the same team without Furcal -- a fact Frank McCourt and Ned Colletti might want to keep in mind heading into the winter, when the shortstop will be a free agent."
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying, but I'm not completely sure this is all just a slump and things will simply just get better.
I think more correctly, we are hoping these are just slumps. No?
Plaschke got national sportswriter of the year from the AP, IIRC. Sad.
In the case of Lowe, his ERA+ the last 3 years is 118, 124, 114. Unless he's hurt, he's probably going to be somewhere around there again.
Also, looking at his Fielding Independent Pitching (from Hardball Times, the expected ERA given his peripherals):
2005: 4.10
2006: 3.72
2007: 3.97
2008: 3.71
He'll be fine (even though his LD% is a little higher this year) once those baseballs start finding gloves.
Peavy 52
Volquez 52
Hamels 48
Harang 47
Santana 47
Lincecum 45
Billingsley 44
Santana, Lincecum, and Billingsley all pitch today. Let's see how far Chad can climb the list.
I guess what I should have asked is, if it is just a slump now, when would it stop being a slump? For instance, if he gives up 5 in 5 innings on Wednesday against Milwaukee, is it still a slump? How many poor performances in a row before it stops being a slump?
I just find it far too convenient to blame poor performance as being merely a slump. Again, players do decline.
Heck Penny generally manages to be bad for the entire second half, then comes back fine next year. If Lowe is still getting bombed at the end of June I might worry. Heck, even if he is, what are you going to do about it? You can't replace everyone in the rotation with Kershaw.
great point.
slump is an odd idea. am i in a slump by working 12 hours and not, technically, making more money? (kinda but it's a life-long thing) is kemp in a slump by being a super young dude who has gone 0 for 8? (nope) is lowe in a slump by stinking it up for a few starts at age 35? ... i'm with you; the answer is "maybe." the guy has always been more sneaky good than overwhelming. now the sneak might be gone. if it is, we're not sunk, just troubled. i'd argue we bring up old/young mcdonald before kershaw, if only because the stakes are lower and the goal - to replace the no. 3 pitcher - isn't so high.... now, is a. jones in a "slump" or is he cooked? that's a bigger question. and while i'm well aware of the calendar, jones' problems look bigger than "slump" to me. he looks scary horrific.... atlanta isn't a stupid organization, and they rarely let folk go who should be kept. (i know, guys like j.d. drew and even odalis, for a bit, sort of put the lie to that, but generally speaking...)... my point is, slump wise, the bigger question is in CF, not the mound.
I'll take myself off the ledge now. ;-)
Anyway, what reg said.
Lowe has definitely been eminently hittable his last few outings, but he does go through stretches like that. I bet he corrects it; at least he will when his agent reminds him of his "walk year." Maybe Penny will be reversing his usual trend; bad first half great second half. But I can't imagine him being worse than the last outing.
Hopefully Bills can continue his upward trend tonight, he's been our best starter the past 2 weeks.
8 If Furcal is back, I predict a Ethier-Jones-Kemp outfield.
One thing I didn't put in the main post is that Lowe sure could have used some better infield defense behind him last night.
I can't predict the future any more than anyone else. All I'm saying is not enough has happened up to now to freak out over the starting pitching.
What am I going to do about it? I? I can't do anything! Obviously!
But, I won't keep believing it's just a slump.
Simply put, he is pitching poorly. The fact he does this every year is more a statement of his overall ability as a pitcher rather then a signal that things will soon miraculously change.
I agree with you Jon. Though, I am not all that enamored with Penny & Lowe anyway, so I guess I am not completely surprised by their struggles. Again, the fact they both seem to do it every year is more a statement of their overall abilities as pitchers.
It's truly remarkable that Jones only has 4 RBIs thus far. I mean, Kemp had 5 RBIs in one inning, for Ch-i's sake.
The free version only lets me see 1 name, to wit: Andruw Jones.
(And to find that gambling has been going on here.)
COME ON!
Speaking of which, time to give kitty her pill again.
"Don't forget to bring a towel!"
-Towelie
You should get some "pill pockets" from your vet or some place like PetSmart. They work great.
29 - Hmm, never heard of that. Sounds good, though the hiding it in wet food trick works just fine. She'll eat anything from a can.
Yeah, it's pretty much the same idea.
Not to mention:
w/runners on: .080/.193/.080/.273
w/RISP: .038/.219/.038/.257
Every single day you get beaten upside the head by life. It's an unending series of disappointments. After a week, you'll be like most of us and just curled up in the fetal position hiding under your bed and subsisting on Cheetos and Red Bull.
Cold and pointless.
Well, there's this bike messenger named "Puck" who likes to cause a lot of trouble...
Plus he's so much bigger now than he used to be - which brings to mind how Bonds' appearance altered over time.
Anyhow, I firmly believe if Schmidt or Kershaw is able to fill a hole in the rotation in July, Lowe should be traded. I do not think he has been great in his Dodger career, but he has been steady/durable.
37 Get used to the phrase "I can't, I have work tomorrow".
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/tNCs
I don't know. I'm still in academia.
42 I don't think steroids has much to do with it. He's pressing at the plate and his bat speed is slower. Don't see how steroids affects that.
43 I wouldn't trade Lowe unless the Dodgers are out of the race by then, which is quite unlikely. He's been steady for sure, much steadier than almost any other pitcher in baseball over the past 4 seasons. If he continues to look awful, then maybe some decisions have to be made but I don't see it happening.
I saw him saying that last night, but he seemed to be referring to the idea that his mechanics were the cause. The one home run he hit this year was a bomb. I really don't think a decline in strength is the problem.
Discussing PEDS these days seems to be somewhat out af favor, but I agree with your assesment. Players could use that stuff to bulk up and get really big and strong, enhancing "explosive" strength, as in getting the hands/bat to the pitched ball.
Another way that players have used that stuff was to maintain there bodies and enhance recovery time. Pitchers could take lower doses and speed up their bodies ability to mend between starts.
Tell tale signs of use - torn tendons, muscles tearing away from tendons. How long has it been since we've heard of a case of patellar tendonitis?
Sudden drop-offs in performance over the past 24 months, especially in players over 30 years old might indicate in some cases that there is something they they have used in the past that they can't use now.
Oh my! I'm not suggesting that anyone is doing it now! Neither am I suggesting that every player that has had a drop off in their performance was a user in the past. There is a pattern to be observed though.
I am looking for years of service for players to go decline, on average, as compared to say, the past ten years.
If you're leaving your college town and moving to a totally different place where you wont know anyone--yeah that could take awhile to get adjusted. But I definitely thinking making money at a job>>>>>>>broke college student.
Of course you have to be QB of the Arizona Cardinals to have that type of life.
Now you are a pretty young dude so don't hung up on finding your career the day after graduation, its more than likely what you think your job will be right now won't be what you'll be doing 5 years from now.
Tigger's been on antibiotics for a month and that's what works for her.
Well I already have this job offer that I am planning on accepting soon in Scottsdale. There is a comfort level there because 2 people I know pretty well are also going on board with them as a new college grad like me.
I don't plan to start until August though. I plan to make this summer awesome.
I just read the chapter on age and decline in "Baseball Between the Numbers". Now I am really sad about the Pierre, Nomar, and Jones signings. Although, at least Jones was for only two years.
I echo the overall sentiment to do something you love, and to try to make a contribution to the world, or a difference in someone's life. Failing that, at least bring in enough money that you can relax at night and enjoy the weekends.
...at which time, the fun stops.
Well I want a horde of little minions to battle your horde. So I would probably have to start soon.
68 Have at it. If you wait too long, your minions will have to also deal with my grand-minions.
http://tinyurl.com/5lq3hx
And lots of people fall in love and then wait a very long time before exchanging vows for a variety of practical reasons, not the least of which includes learning more about yourself each year of your 20's than you ever thought possible.
Travel a lot. Stay out late. And love love love love love. Even if it blows up in your face.
43 55 I advocated trading Lowe last August. But at this point, I'd take the draft pick.
Come and get me, jerks!
Though, it's much easier to hired in the first place...
I would go one step further. You can finance yourself pretty well by the occasional liquor store holdup along with a few well-timed white collar crimes.
I'm nearing the completion of the draft for the 4th different paper from my dissertation. There was a point at which I worried whether I'd even be able to write 2, but I've learned a lot about how to "slice the salami", as the saying goes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_hour_work_week
I'm not claiming the book is good. Or even that I've read it. A friend recently told me about it.
You can come back to let me know if it changes your life. :)
Yellow alert.
I thought that was Juan Pierre's sobriquet? They both can't be the hardest working. Something has to give.
What if there are others who are working even harder, but we don't hear much about because they are on small market teams?
Doesn't this call for an investigation of some kind?
Or we don't hear much about because they are good enough that we can compliment them regarding things that actually matter?
A. RING.
Like Frodo?
Stand down.
Didn't he have some trouble with his right hip in the second half last season? Hey, he'll only be 35 on June 1.
Don't compromise your values; treat everyone with respect; work hard, enjoy your life and don't EVER become a Yankee fan.
But if you do steal, make sure you steal a LOT of money.
I guess my advice would be to do what you love, but try to love fewer than four different things. And have some backbone. Otherwise, you might find it hard to have the salary you want/need when you want/need it.
Or, don't be as spoiled as I am.
Oops, gotta go! My mom is calling me and it's a long ways up that dark staircase. :-)
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ten-things-i-didnt-know-last-week47/
"...the other LA third baseman, DeWitt, is third including 1.4 fielding Win Shares. DeWitt has an above-average Revised Zone Rating at third, plus he has racked up 62 assists in just 211 innings at the position, the highest pace of any NL hot-sacker."
At ten I learned a trade.
And Jon's oldest is a girl and she is being taught to mend and fix and preparing to marry whomever Papa picks.
http://tinyurl.com/5ch2zz
http://tinyurl.com/5wk933
I'd say, "You do the math," except I sincerely suspect foul play.
Pierre, LF
DeWitt, 3B
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Jones, CF
Hu, SS
Billingsley, P
Pierre, LF
DeWitt, 3B
Kemp, RF
Kent, 2B
Martin, C
Loney, 1B
Jones, CF
Hu, SS
Billingsley, P
Current Dodger roster is 7 for 29, 0 BB vs. Chris Sampson.
Kent (3 for 3)
Furcal (2 for 3)
Nomar (1 for 3)
Juan for 5.
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