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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Out of the Sinkhole
2008-05-14 20:14
by Jon Weisman

I really was prepared to be morose tonight. Oh well! Nice comeback for the Dodgers ...

In celebration, I feel compelled to offer this trivial trivia:

Derek Lowe tonight had two intentional walks in an inning for the third time in his career. The previous occurrences:

April 5, 2001: Bottom of the 9th, Orioles Batting, Tied 1-1, Derek Lowe facing 1-2-3
B Anderson Double to LF
M Bordick Groundout: SS-1B; Anderson to 3B
D DeShields Intentional Walk
D Segui Intentional Walk; DeShields to 2B
J Conine Groundout: 3B-C/Forceout at Hm; DeShields to 3B; Segui to 2B
M Mora Walk; DeShields Scores; Segui to 3B; Conine to 2B

May 13, 2001: Top of the 11th, Athletics Batting, Tied 4-4, Derek Lowe facing 2-3-4
F Menechino Double to LF
J Giambi Intentional Walk
O Saenz Ground Ball Double Play: SS-2B-1B; Menechino to 3B
T Long Intentional Walk
M Tejada Groundout: 2B-1B

Comments (66)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-05-14 20:23:40
1.   Eric Stephen
Lots of old and future friends involved in those games.
2008-05-14 20:27:47
2.   Disabled List
That April 5, 2001 game was the day after Hideo Nomo's 2nd no-hitter.
2008-05-14 20:29:09
3.   Bob Timmermann
Did anyone catch what Maza's number was? On it's "-"
2008-05-14 20:32:39
4.   underdog
3 I caught a glimpse of it. I believe it's "∞"
2008-05-14 20:33:42
5.   underdog
Btw, great piece on Kershaw -- one of the longest, most detailed that I've read in awhile -- which shamrok posted in the previous thread:
2008-05-14 20:42:43
6.   Eric Stephen
Tex Winter looks like Doc Brown tonight.
2008-05-14 20:43:39
7.   22 Gallons
I dunno who needed this win more - me or the Dodgers. Funny what a "W" will do for the spirit.

It's a good night - Dodgers get a comeback win, the kid is in bed before 9pm, I finished paying the bills and still have some reserves in my checkbook, and I'm steadily working towards those 22 gallons.

2008-05-14 20:50:51
8.   Dodgers49
231 Did anyone here see Jackie Robinson play?

I never saw Jackie play in person in a Major League game but I watched him play many times on television (unfortunately, it was in black and white :-) ). Primarily during the '49 World Series, the '51 playoffs and the '52, '53, '55 and '56 World Series. Also, unless my mind is playing tricks on me, there was a "Game of the Week" on Saturdays during the '50s. I remember Dizzy Dean explaining how a player had just "slud" into 3rd base. :-) But I didn't attend my first Major League game until 1962 when Dodgers Stadium opened.

2008-05-14 20:52:44
9.   CanuckDodger
The Passan piece about Kershaw was a great read. The only part that bothered me were some words from Colletti about people who follow prospects. He thinks we just don't realize how hard it is to play in the big leagues. Well, Ned, it seems to be harder for some of your big money free agents than most of our prospects who have come up.
2008-05-14 20:55:12
10.   Dodgers49
3 Did anyone catch what Maza's number was? On it's "-"

I caught a glimpse of it when they were high fiving at the end of the game and it appeared to me he was wearing #57.

2008-05-14 20:57:12
11.   Indiana Jon
I can vouch for the part about Kershaw being very polite and humble. No matter how big his stardom becomes, I will never forget him taking the time to have a conversation with me in Huntsville last month. I've met cockier kids on the local high school golf team. It just makes me root for him that much more.
2008-05-14 21:00:37
12.   Dodgers49
Matt Kemp had a great 12-game hitting streak in which he drove in about 16 runs. Then an article appeared in the Los Angeles Times explaining how he was doing it. His streak ended immediately and he hasn't done much of anything since. Apparently, folks on other teams read the L.A. Times. :-)
2008-05-14 21:06:21
13.   LoneStar7
6 funny you say, my dad commented on how he really is the mad scientist after they showed him. But this whole playoff series it seems as though hes rolled out of bed before every game..
2008-05-14 21:07:10
14.   Bob Timmermann
If it's #57, I would think Luis should not unpack.
2008-05-14 21:09:23
15.   Eric Stephen
Thanks for submitting an entry today Bob. I was happy to cancel my Fatwa against you.
2008-05-14 21:19:25
16.   Bob Timmermann
My pleasure. But there was scant support for Don Sutton among the Teeming Hundreds of Dodger Thoughts.
2008-05-14 21:24:37
17.   Dodgers49
8 One correction now that I've given it more thought. I listened to the '49 World Series on the radio. No one in my neighborhood had a TV set then. I watched the other events on TV starting with the '51 playoff (which remains the most heart breaking sports event of my lifetime).
2008-05-14 21:36:15
18.   Benjamin Miracord
An unnamed mythical creature is pictured on Yahoo's main baseball page.

2008-05-14 21:36:22
19.   Greg Brock
The resurgence of the station wagon proves that everything comes back into style.
2008-05-14 21:39:20
20.   Benjamin Miracord
5 Sorry, underdog. I thought I read 'em all.
2008-05-14 21:39:26
21.   Greg Brock
Maybe the station wagon and SUV merged at some point and I missed it.
2008-05-14 21:51:57
22.   Dodgers49
From Diamond Leung:

Lo Duca further explains his Dodgers past

2008-05-14 21:55:04
23.   Greg Brock
Luke Walton needs to stop trying to be a factor. Calm down.

No matter what, don't forget that you are Luke Walton.

2008-05-14 21:57:28
24.   Eric Stephen
You're right. As long as the checks still clear, Walton should just sit back and enjoy the ride.

That said, if my life came down to choosing Walton or Radmanovic at SF, I'm going with Luke.

2008-05-14 22:03:53
25.   Greg Brock
Call by Revlon.
2008-05-14 22:13:09
26.   Greg Brock
This is the longest fourth quarter in the history of basketball.
2008-05-14 22:14:18
27.   fanerman
18 That's funny. All I see is a blurred out picture of a wall.
2008-05-14 22:21:04
28.   scareduck
5 - interesting read, thanks. Also of note there are the disparaging words, "Fractured psyches or arm troubles or control issues or burnout – all of them, up as teenagers, bombed hard." Has Passan seen Jackson's ERA this season? Did he know about the 1-1, 3.00 ERA he has against the Yankees?


2008-05-14 22:21:57
29.   Eric Stephen
In Game 5 of the 1988 2nd round at home against Utah, Michael Cooper hit the only game winning shot of his career to gave the Lakers a 3-2 series lead.

Who will be tonight's Michael Cooper?

2008-05-14 22:30:01
30.   Greg Brock
29 I'll guess Jordan Farmar.

Show me Jordan Farmar!


2008-05-14 22:31:31
31.   Eric Stephen
After opening the playoffs 6-0 against the spread, the Lakers have lost the last 3 games against the spread.
2008-05-14 22:36:05
32.   underdog
Whew. Lakers survived that one.

That was one terrible flop attempt by Okur, when Pau then had an easy dunk attempt. Not the greatest effort there, Mr. O.

Next game is gonna be a war. Whoo boy.

2008-05-14 22:52:21
33.   ToyCannon
Mr. Brock are you enjoying the defense of Mr. DeWitt yet?
2008-05-14 22:59:40
34.   Greg Brock
33 Of all the things I've missed, not being able to hang out as much around here, I've wanted to give you a chance to rub a little DeWitt in my grill.

Still not a fan...But bully for him! In your face, me!

2008-05-14 23:03:14
35.   LoneStar7
that was really frustrating to watch, but we got the W, so back to utah then.
2008-05-14 23:04:43
36.   LAT
22. My favorite part of the LoDuca article.

On being named in the Mitchell Report: "a lot of people don't realize I got into a bad collision and got run over at home plate one year, in '95 in Double-A. And I got it prescribed to me by a doctor. A lot of guys did it. There's a lot of guys in front of me that did it. Like I said, I'm not making excuses."

That word "excuse," I don't think it means what you think it means.

2008-05-14 23:25:30
37.   jasonungar07
"Right now, we just need to break this losing streak, I don't care if it was Darryl Strawberry driving in Juan Samuel. "

-Ken Noe, post 324 of last thread.

That's so funny. Great way to tie in the previous thread. I always look for the top post of the game day thread. Could be long, could be one liner..I never know. That's my nominee...

2008-05-14 23:26:45
38.   Reddog
Great win tonight. Hopefully Billingsley can pitch a good one tomorrow and we can start a winning streak.

DeWitt is a possible rookie of the year candidate. I hope Nomar is used as a pinch hitter and spot starter only when he comes back. And boy does Kent look old out there.

2008-05-14 23:26:52
39.   Greg Brock
36 Give him credit. His mother passed away from cancer, and he could have used that. But he didn't.

He did not.

Good for Paul LoDuca and his fourteen year old girlfriend. Bravery.

2008-05-14 23:35:32
40.   Dark Horse
34-DeWitt's winning me over. Just not as a superior option to LaRoche, who really needs to be our third-basemen for the rest of the season and the next several years. It's been said before, why not DeWitt at second? Etanislau seems to have fallen off the edge of the world, and I won't be too busted up if Colletti punts on him, but so help me God if Neddy decides that DeWitt is the new Martin and hence deals LaRoche to Kansas City for a sack of magic beans it will end my fandom forever. Or for a while, at least.
2008-05-14 23:37:20
41.   Greg Brock
Why not DeWitt at second?

He has stone hands.


2008-05-14 23:49:00
42.   Eric Enders
The Brewers announcers are so bad. They used to have Daron Sutton, who's pretty decent. Now they have some schmuck along with Bill Schroeder, who used to be half of the Brewers catching tandem along with Ned Yost and obviously got most of his brains knocked out of him.

Among the gems they've offered during this series:

- Ethier has grabbed a hold of the left field job and not let go.

- It's nearly impossible to hit home runs at Dodger Stadium.

- Juan Pierre is "a prototypical defensive center fielder."

- Most egregiously, they spent most of the second inning tonight discussing the new six-year contract that Russell Martin signed. They even went into some detail about it, noting how the Dodgers were quick to lock Martin up once the price on good young catchers had been established by Brian McCann's contract, etc. etc. I mean, it was really surreal. How do you get something like that so wrong?

2008-05-14 23:52:51
43.   LoneStar7
42 thats did so many get the brewers commentators? are a lot of DT posters in Wisconsin area, or could you only get the Milwaukee crew on

I heard a few people mentioning they were listening to the brewer announcers, and i was just wondering why

2008-05-14 23:54:36
44.   Eric Enders
The Extra Innings package always has the home team's announcers unless the home team isn't carrying the game.
2008-05-14 23:56:08
45.   Eric Enders
I should say, that applies to the Extra Innings package on cable. The people with DirecTV get to choose which announcers they want.
2008-05-15 00:00:18
46.   underdog
Ditto for us MLBTV suckers, I mean, subscribers. Home broadcasts for the most part. Otherwise I'd have nothing to do with the Brewers Mooers.
2008-05-15 00:12:44
47.   LoneStar7
Ah i was also kind of wondering because I'll be living in an apartment in dallas next year and I was trying to decide what the best way to get games cable package, directv, sling box, mlbtv, etc...

any suggestions?

2008-05-15 00:17:56
48.   Eric Enders
I've never had direcTV, but having tried the cable package and, I'd recommend you go with DirecTV. I'd avoid at all costs.
2008-05-15 00:27:15
49.   LoneStar7
will do, not sure if we'll have cable or satellite yet though, but I dunno if anyone has tried the sling box but i've heard thats pretty cool.

Then I could get bruins, dodgers, lakers, even kings all for the price of one

2008-05-15 00:31:12
50.   Louis in SF

Everything I have read indicates that DeWitt at second is not a great option, but what about LaRoche in Left Field??

He played one game there last year and could learn it, and his power bat will be needed especially later this year and next year. What I would do for the moment keep DeWitt has the prime 3rd baseman until he falls off the cliff, he might not, tell Nomar he is the super utility guy off the bench, if he doesn't like it then get the best prospect we can for him, by the time he is ready to play he will be down to half of his contract, even if the Dodgers have to eat it.

Secondly it gets complicated but with 5 outfielders, I now count Delwyn as a pinch hitter and back-up second base, I shop JP for the best power prospect or second base candidate I can find, accept that the Dodgers will have to eat a portion of the JP contract, but if this happens the outfield becomes: Jones in CF, but his playing time is subject to performance, Kemp is in right and is the CF sub, Ethier plays pretty much every day and LaRoche becomes the 4th outfielder and can also sub at 3rd. It is not perfect, but it makes the team far better this year and clears part of the long jam for next year. But next year is Jones last year, and conceivably could be flipped at the break next year. Giving us the outfield that is best for the team: Kemp in CF, Ethier RF and LaRoche LF.

This is not perfect and highly unlikely to happen, but I only watched part of the game before I went out to play tennis and Charlie Steiner bless his heart made sure he let everyone know each time he came to bat what a slump JP was in. It sucks what they are doing to Ethier and now because Furcal is out, we have to have JP always start. I am glad he got the double tonight and he is an adequet 4th outfielder, but in so many ways having LaRoche has a 4th outfielder would be far better and actually give Torre more roster flexibility. I can only hope!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-05-15 00:32:27
51.   Andrew Shimmin will work, some day. Probably.
2008-05-15 00:39:14
52.   Eric Enders
Even on the rare occasions it works, the quality still sucks, even on "premium." If Netflix can figure out a way to stream their movies and make them look really good, why can't MLB?

Oh, right. It's MLB.

Oh, and after crowing the other day that I'd never experienced the trouble with the archives that everyone else seemed to have? You got it. Archives. Toast.

2008-05-15 00:59:56
53.   Eric Enders
50 I would not oppose your plan to move LaRoche to LF, but even your caveat that it's highly unlikely is, I think, an understatement.

Trading Pierre and Nomar for pennies on the dollar would constitute a major admission of error on Ned's part, and he has so far shown himself unwilling to make such admissions. Not to mention which, I think a good portion of your average fans still view Nomar and Pierre as good baseball players. And view LaRoche as a rookie who's a .220 hitter and who would be playing out of position to boot.

Hanging on to Nomar and Pierre is the safest move for Colletti to make as far as his job security is concerned. That way, you can just say you signed famous star players and they didn't work out as expected. Get rid of them, and (1) you get criticized for wasting money and then having to eat it, (2) you get criticized for jettisoning scrappy veterans who know how to win, and (3) you stake your job on a rookie third baseman's ability to play left field and hit lots of home runs.

I tend to think the Dodgers should just wait out DeWitt's hot streak. If he keeps hitting like gangbusters all year, then great, we've got a new young star on our hands. If he fades as expected, then put LaRoche in as soon as that happens. Either way, you come out ahead.

Of course, this being the Dodgers, they will almost certainly go with one of the two options that make less sense, namely: (1) Letting DeWitt flail away even if he hits .190 for two months, or (2) Giving the job back to Nomar.

2008-05-15 01:08:10
54.   Eric Enders
Oh, and one more classic from Milwaukee's Moron Twins: They praised Prince Fielder for hitting fewer homers and more sacrifice flies this year.
2008-05-15 01:20:53
55.   Eric Enders
I realize I'm talking to myself at this hour, but can we just take a moment to reflect on how full of himself Cowboy Joe West is?

From the Milwaukee J-S:

Bad things began to happen to Mota before he threw his first pitch. After he threw five warm-up pitches, third base umpire Joe West asked for the baseball and threw it to second base, as if he were a catcher throwing down before the start of an inning.

West, renown for finding his way into interesting situations, drew the ire of Yost for that antic. The Brewers' skipper came out, yelled "What's the problem?" and proceeded to give "Cowboy Joe" a piece of his mind.

Yost brushed off the incident afterward, leaving Mota to explain what happened.

"Joe West asked me for the ball and threw it to second base," said Mota. "I only threw five pitches. I said, 'I get eight.' He said I threw extra pitches in the bullpen."

2008-05-15 02:23:39
56.   Louis in SF

No Eric there is actually someone else out here, or I may now be the lonely voice, so I appreciate your feedback. You are correct that my phrase of "highly unlikely" is an understatement.

But given Nomar's willingness to take ground balls at short, and given the objective facts that even if we started LaRoche Dodger homers this year will still be very low: Kent is declining, Furcal may have an increase over last year, but based on a seasonal average of 12, he hit 6 last year and is at 5 now but is injured. Even if he hits 6 more the total is not huge, with Ethier losing time to JP and Jones, his power numbers might actually go down and he didn't even hit 20 last year. If Kent and Martin maintain and Loney increase by 10, and Kemp increases by 15, the net gain over last years pathetic home run total will probably be very small. And besides we didn't have much power to begin with.

I guess I just think that using your farm system and finding out what LaRoche could do and using JP has a good trading chip to a team that wants and needs speed, would in the long run help the ball club and help the bottom line...I just wonder if anyone ever brings this up when management gets together. Power at the major league level will be hard and expensive to get this year, finding a minor leaguer for 2 years down the road would make a lot more sense, how you convince Coletti, I am not sure.

2008-05-15 03:53:29
57.   Michael D
I think the solution for LaRoche is move him to left field and trade Ethier. I know a lot of people won't like hearing that but Ethier is a nice player but never going to be great. We're going to have to trade him eventually. That still leaves the problem of having to do something with either Pierre or Jones, and I don't think that gets resolved until the off season, if at all.
2008-05-15 05:36:10
58.   old dodger fan
I may be talking to myself at this hour as well but it is 8:30 on the EC.

Being on the EC I have not seen a Dodger game in person since '06 (will see 1 or 2 in August this year) so I have not seen Pierre play. I was watching some highlights on ESPN recently and was appalled by some weak looking throws from LF.

Is there a relevant stat to measure an outfielders arm? Perhaps "What % of runners score from 2B on singles to left" or "What % of runners score from 3B on fly outs to LF"? Can that be translated into a run differential (and win differential) of having JP vs Ethier in LF?

2008-05-15 05:38:22
59.   MollyKnight
Maza wore #57 last night, but the TV graphic said #77. Confusing!
2008-05-15 06:21:51
60.   old dodger fan
55 Joe West was home plate umpire at the LCS game that Jay Howell was ejected from.

I was getting ready to say, "He is really old" and then realized we are the same age. Bummer.

2008-05-15 06:24:33
61.   Bob Hendley
News of JP's hit to beat Guillermo Mota last night has reached the shores of Guillermo's own Dominican Republic. The headline this morning's local newspaper, El Listen Diario, reads "Juan Tonna Mota".
2008-05-15 06:28:17
62.   Jon Weisman
I can't believe people are suggesting moving LaRoche to left field. You've got a good-fielding left fielder on the bench with an OPS of 114 and a poor-fielding starting second baseman with an OPS of 72. If you're going to suggest something unlikely, if you're going to make a wish, why would you want that wish to further jam up a crowded outfield?

Ned, by the way, has admitted so-called mistakes. He got rid of Baez, Carter, Betemit, Tomko, etc. Pierre has a bigger contract so it's a harder pill to swallow, but Ned's pride in and of itself is not the issue. And certainly, if Ned found a good deal on Pierre, he wouldn't have too much pride to turn it down.
My post this morning is going to be on Kent, so I may be scooping myself, but I just felt the LF idea should be nipped in the bud :)

2008-05-15 06:33:44
63.   D4P
You've got a good-fielding left fielder on the bench with an OPS of 114

I thought Jones was a center fielder...

2008-05-15 06:48:11
64.   Daniel Zappala
DeWitt is a great example of what happens when the Dodgers are forced to play a young player and see what happens. Sometimes you find something unexpected. Other times you get a line like Hu (though he hasn't had nearly as many PAs). Other teams do this all the time, but it's unusual for the Dodgers.

They need to find some way to do this with LaRoche, and they they also should to do the same with a young pitcher in the 5 spot.

2008-05-15 07:02:33
65.   Jon Weisman
63 - Ha. OPS+ in 62 , please :)
2008-05-15 07:18:24
66.   Jon Weisman

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