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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

On the Chin
2008-05-17 09:03
by Jon Weisman

Part of the reason we keep seeing players like Gary Bennett and Luis Maza in the Dodger starting lineup and Russell Martin at third base has been Joe Torre's loss of faith in Chin-Lung Hu.

From Kevin Pearson of the Press Enterprise:

Torre said that infielder Chin-Lung Hu, who was hitting .200 and in a 2-for-17 slump heading into Friday's game, was clearly fighting himself mechanically and that it appeared the game was speeding up for the rookie. Torre said that Hu needed to be playing every day and that moving him back to the minors was something the club may be forced to look at in the coming weeks.

Hu might be heading to Las Vegas soon, but at least for today, he is getting a start in place of Jeff Kent.

Juan Pierre, LF
Andre Ethier, RF
Russell Martin, C
James Loney, 1B
Mark Sweeney, DH
Andruw Jones, CF
Blake DeWitt, 3B
Luis Maza, 2B
Chin-Lung Hu, SS

Dodgers at Angels, 12:55 p.m.

Comments (418)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-05-17 12:45:05
1.   overkill94
If I were to use one word to describe today's line-up, it would be...punchless
2008-05-17 12:45:15
2.   regfairfield

Hu needs to play every day. Hu gets opportunity to play every day. Hu gets benched for Luis Maza.

2008-05-17 12:51:21
3.   Bluebleeder87
Santana is due for a loss.
2008-05-17 12:55:23
4.   Andrew Shimmin
The kid read that well. But he wasn't funny, and he had a silly name.
2008-05-17 12:56:24
5.   Reddog
Starting with Sweeney, you then have A. Jones, DeWitt, Maza, Hu and Pierre.

That is some Murderer's Row.

2008-05-17 12:56:52
6.   Bluebleeder87
watching the #'s Jon posted on the last thread I'm really getting PO'ed at upper management's shenanigans, but I'm hoping things change, I really do.
2008-05-17 12:58:23
7.   LogikReader
Honestly, when is somebody on that staff going to have a "loss of faith" in Juan Pierre?
2008-05-17 12:58:47
8.   dsfan
Not doubting Joey P's point, but that's scary if the Dodgers traded Navarro because they didn't want to have two young catchers on the same team. Has the press revisited that trade with Ned?
2008-05-17 12:58:48
9.   MMSMikey
way to set the tone, juan.
2008-05-17 12:59:17
10.   Bluebleeder87
it's a HOT day & Park pitching! I hope Park keeps the ball away from the hitters.
2008-05-17 13:01:17
11.   dsfan
Whicker writes a good column. Today he gives Ned the open mike and Ned complains about Billingsley's pitch inefficiency and invokes Maddux as guy to emulate in that area. Not to pick on Ned, but if it's that important to him, why not keep Maddux for 2 x $10 million instead of giving all that money to Jason Schmidt. So much of Ned's wisdom comes after the fact.
2008-05-17 13:03:44
12.   Andrew Shimmin
The kid was funnier than Speier.
2008-05-17 13:04:07
13.   Greg Brock
Gotta keep Sweeney fresh. Wouldn't want him to pull a muscle getting doubled off a foul out.
2008-05-17 13:05:21
14.   Icaros
I can't believe it's 2008 and I'm watching Chan Ho Park start a game for the Dodgers.
2008-05-17 13:06:04
15.   Reddog
I want to be an optimist, but I have some dark thoughts regarding our chances in this one.
2008-05-17 13:07:28
16.   roncey10
It looks like a spring training lineup...

I have to agree that foul pop that Sweeney got doubled up on last year to end a game was one of the most agitating plays of all time...

2008-05-17 13:07:40
17.   Andrew Shimmin
11- Looks like that was printed on Thursday, the day Billingsley went seven.

2008-05-17 13:08:58
18.   Andrew Shimmin
Somebody get Maza some shades.
2008-05-17 13:09:09
19.   Bluebleeder87
I wonder who the broadcaster is doing the game with Eric Karros, he kind of reminds me of Eintein for some reason, did you guys see 'em?
2008-05-17 13:09:09
20.   Bob Timmermann
In 2006, we saw Jose Lima start games for the Dodgers.

And yet we survived.

We saw Brett Tomko and Mark Hendrickson start games last year.

2008-05-17 13:09:25
21.   LogikReader
EK breakin' out the "J-Lo" reference!
2008-05-17 13:09:30
22.   dsfan
Furcal's back injury has really hurt this team but maybe it also gave this front office a better feel for how to assign value to him going forward. Back issues, seemingly, tend to recur, particularly, you would think, if one is require to bend over and field dozens of groundballs every day -- something to think about before giving him guarantee for a gazillion dollars.

Three years ago I said Furcal would end up in CF in the last year of his contract. Obviously I was wrong, but I still believe that it could be a good place for him. Not that CF is easy on the body or that we know he could read a flyball or would be excited about moving off SS. But I think it will only get harder for him to keep his back healthy as he moves into his 30s at SS. Again, he is not a fundamentally great SS, far from it. He relies so much on extraordinary athleticism. That's harder on the body and can show up big time as age erodes some of that athleticism.

Andruw also was that way as a hitter -- definitely not a guy with great technique or a great approach, relied very heavily on great athleticism.

2008-05-17 13:09:41
23.   Bluebleeder87
nice encouraging inning from Park...
2008-05-17 13:09:48
24.   Bob Timmermann
Dick Stockton is compared to Max Planck more often than Einstein.
2008-05-17 13:09:50
25.   Andrew Shimmin
Very pretty double play.
2008-05-17 13:09:51
26.   Marty
Wow, Vlad barely got down the line. Is he banged up?
2008-05-17 13:09:56
27.   Reddog

I was at that game. Kemp was on deck. It took awhile to sink in that the game was over - no one could believe what had happened.

2008-05-17 13:12:57
28.   waterboy100
20 I remember jose. he wasnt that bad was he? although to be honest, all i remember of him is he pitched a 5 hitter (i think) in the playoffs that year for us..
2008-05-17 13:14:39
29.   MC Safety
Where is The Bison?

This lineup is laughable.

2008-05-17 13:15:31
30.   oshea2002
Is there anything wrong with Kemp? Is this lineup a joke?
2008-05-17 13:17:40
31.   Ken Noe
I have the Red Sox on my local Fox station, but still blacks me out. Great.

Am I only the only person already thinking about 2009? No Kent or Nomar to placate with PT, no Sweeney or Bennett? And maybe, maybe, no Colletti?

2008-05-17 13:19:30
32.   Bluebleeder87
DUDE!! (DeWitt)
2008-05-17 13:19:51
33.   skybluestoday
Oh my!
2008-05-17 13:21:19
34.   Reddog
DeWitt! How long has it been since we've had a Rookie of the Year?
2008-05-17 13:21:22
35.   lab rat
Loved that he pulled that.

I really didn't think he had the stroke, strength or hands to do that back in April.


2008-05-17 13:21:58
36.   lab rat
36 -- he clearly had it. I just wasn't seeing it.
2008-05-17 13:21:59
37.   Marty
I guess his back feels good.
2008-05-17 13:22:04
38.   Ken Noe
And maybe DeWitt and La Roche in the lineup? ;-)
2008-05-17 13:22:05
39.   CanuckDodger
DeWitt, the best hitter on the team.
2008-05-17 13:22:44
40.   waterboy100
game days shows it as an indside the parker? really?
2008-05-17 13:23:06
41.   LogikReader
The Solution™ got some help from a Dodger Fan on that one... leaning over and attempting to catch a ball that otherwise would have hit the wall.

Nice way to come back into the lineup though, Solution!

2008-05-17 13:23:14
42.   LoneStar7
operation learn 2b has got to be put in place, we cant send this kid back. Woohoo!
2008-05-17 13:23:21
43.   Ken Noe
34 Hollandsworth in '96.
2008-05-17 13:23:23
44.   Bluebleeder87
Upper management (Ned) is self defeating him self.

I wanted to use THIS TEAM IS SELF DEFEATING, but we have a 2 run lead so...

2008-05-17 13:23:28
45.   waterboy100
i mean gamecast
2008-05-17 13:23:31
46.   ucladodger
Thats what i was talking about with Kemp when i said sitting on a pitch and pulling the ball. Thats how you hit with power.
2008-05-17 13:25:02
47.   Bluebleeder87
we need a DeWitt-LaRoche one 2 punch.
2008-05-17 13:25:38
48.   MMSMikey
sick of garret anderson.
2008-05-17 13:26:35
49.   Bob Hendley
34 - We all know what those are worth. I am afraid that his very success is used as an excuse not to do something to improve the team. Stick the Gumption Kid at 2nd and get LaRoche up here, send Hu down when Rafi gets back and hold your nose every time Torre thinks of playing Maza at SS.
2008-05-17 13:26:51
50.   68elcamino427
#33, first swing in five days.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-05-17 13:27:24
51.   Bob Timmermann
I like Garret Anderson, but that's a minority opinion.
2008-05-17 13:30:15
52.   Andrew Shimmin
Maza is now wearing sunglasses.
2008-05-17 13:30:23
53.   Ken Noe
49 Plus DFA Sweeney when Nomar gets back. DFA Bennett and bring up May. Trade Pierre while he's actually hitting and has some value. Play Kemp and Ethier every day. Get Kershaw and McDonald up here.
2008-05-17 13:30:28
54.   the2pin
This is such a joke. Past 130 reg.-season games, Kemp's line: .338, 13 HR, 19 SB
2008-05-17 13:30:55
55.   trainwreck
2008-05-17 13:32:47
56.   68elcamino427
Yes on all points.
2008-05-17 13:32:56
57.   regfairfield
Bringing up May now and having him sit on the bench is a very bad idea, he's still far from ready. If Bennett does get DFAed, his replacement will almost certainly be Ardoin.
2008-05-17 13:33:09
58.   Louis in SF
Given the current Dodger state of affairs, Blake DeWitt AB's are ones I look most forward to...I can't say it any other way, but Dodger line-up based on what Torre claims he wants to do and what he puts out on the field makes little sense.

1.) Needs power and wants to give Kent a rest. Makes logical sense so why is JP there and not Kemp, if it is a matter that Kemp has had a few bad days and you want to rest him against a tough pitcher wait till tomorrow.

2.) If that is still so important that you have to sit both Kent and Kemp, something on this club I think should never happen, than how about a start for Young at 2nd base-you give a player just like Sweney some extra AB's and you can still play Hu at short or Mazza, if you want to give Hu more chances, which actually makes some sense fine, but on a team which has little power on its best days and scores runs only through multiple hits, making these flawed line-up decisions hurts everyone, and doesn't even accomplish your stated goals.

2008-05-17 13:35:07
59.   LoneStar7
oh man I almost totally forgot about Chan Ho's famous scissor kick until that little flashback, thats awesome..
2008-05-17 13:35:45
60.   68elcamino427
May you could do now. If Bennett refuses assignment, then May goes back down and whoever can be added?
2008-05-17 13:36:47
61.   Bluebleeder87
traditionally when it's nice & hot it works wonders for the arm, I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not surprised Park is throwing 95mph heaters.
2008-05-17 13:37:32
62.   regfairfield
60 You put Ardoin on the 40 man.
2008-05-17 13:37:50
63.   Ken Noe
58 Hopefully, when Furcal gets back, Torre's need for "speed" at the top will be satiated and we'll see a reasonable outfield again. Hopefully.

57 Gee what a choice, the Alley-ooper or the Ground to Third Baseman Missile.

Hmmm, Hu got on base.

2008-05-17 13:38:09
64.   LoneStar7
why isnt juan bunting?
2008-05-17 13:38:24
65.   68elcamino427
Did anyone else hear Stockton say that Penny will miss his next start due to stiffness in his right arm?
2008-05-17 13:39:02
66.   LoneStar7
well thats a blessing, I mean i obviously hope hes ok and never want to see a guy get hit, but i was feeling that was a dp waiting to happen..
2008-05-17 13:40:35
67.   Alice S
Who the heck do we have playing shortstop?
Chin-Ling Hu? Chin-Lung Hyu?
2008-05-17 13:41:33
68.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know guys, but I'm lovin' this 2-0 lead, I'm sick of the Halos winning all the time...
2008-05-17 13:41:50
69.   regfairfield
It's funny because he's foreign.
2008-05-17 13:42:05
70.   LoneStar7
yipee, great AB andre
2008-05-17 13:42:27
71.   Bob Hendley
53 - Yep, thats what you gotta do if you want to improve this team. Anything else if just monkeying around.
2008-05-17 13:44:47
72.   LoneStar7
thats huge, big time speed russ..this is a great inning, very fortunate
2008-05-17 13:44:47
73.   skybluestoday
Cool! Infield hit for the Golden God with an RBI! Awesome!
2008-05-17 13:45:09
74.   68elcamino427
Martin with the high chopper!
2008-05-17 13:45:32
75.   Bluebleeder87
I don't know about you guys but those swings are indicative OF A TIRED BALL PLAYER.

or maybe he's just swinging at bad balls?

2008-05-17 13:48:17
76.   Bluebleeder87
I would have Inked Kemp instead of Sweeney as the DH.
2008-05-17 13:48:43
77.   regfairfield
Am I the only one who really likes Sweeney's glasses?
2008-05-17 13:49:12
78.   LoneStar7
75 On Russell's part?
2008-05-17 13:49:59
79.   Reddog
I wish DeWitt were batting 5th and not Sweeney.
2008-05-17 13:50:52
80.   Bluebleeder87


2008-05-17 13:51:18
81.   oshea2002
I like this strategy by Joe, throw out the worst lineup we can to lull Ervin into a false sense of security - then quickly strike!
2008-05-17 13:51:59
82.   68elcamino427
How about Young or Kemp?
2008-05-17 13:52:57
83.   gpellamjr
81 Oh man. And I thought Joe just wasn't trying to win! Very smart, Joe. Very smart.
2008-05-17 13:52:57
84.   MMSMikey
how does jones not even make contact right there.
2008-05-17 13:53:15
85.   LoneStar7
oh man thats terrible both this pitches were very very hittable especially that 3-1 pitch man
2008-05-17 13:53:25
86.   Bluebleeder87
I'm just speculating but maybe he really is just swinging at bad pitches which in turn makes him look like he's tired or something, plus somebody else mentioned that Russell has played ALL games the Dodgers have played so maybe it's a subconscious type thing on my part.
2008-05-17 13:53:28
87.   Reddog
Andruw Jones is a washed-up waste of a hitter. Colletti really knows how to pick 'em.
2008-05-17 13:53:38
88.   Ken Noe
"And the Andruw Jones nightmare continues."
2008-05-17 13:53:47
89.   68elcamino427
Jones misses on 2-0 and 3-1 fastballs , then strikes out and didn't touch the ball. I've seen enough.
2008-05-17 13:55:26
90.   MMSMikey
hes had a ton of awful at bats this year but that one has to take the cake.
2008-05-17 13:56:26
91.   oshea2002
They almost need to only play him against soft tossers. Good fastballs are virtually impossible for him to hit at this point.
2008-05-17 13:57:22
92.   oshea2002
Who is starting tomorrow? Kuo?
2008-05-17 13:57:25
93.   Bluebleeder87
I still believe in Andruw Jones! (you can do it Andruw!!)
2008-05-17 13:58:28
94.   bluekang
Can we start a write-in campaign for Blake DeWitt on the all-star ballot?
2008-05-17 13:59:07
95.   Bluebleeder87

I don't know but I hope so.

2008-05-17 13:59:07
96.   Samuel


2008-05-17 13:59:47
97.   Bob Hendley
93 - OK, but do you also believe that the way to get him untracked/on track is to wheel him out there day after day?
2008-05-17 14:00:40
98.   Bluebleeder87
Maza looks like he has a little noodle arm, even worse then Pierre.
2008-05-17 14:01:18
99.   Louis in SF
Karros comments about Jones are telling. In Karros eyes Jones improvements are minimal because he is missing pitches he should and used to hit in hitters counts. I actually think the walks are encouraging, but him continuing to miss pitches badly is not good. Even looking at the Kent slump as a comparison, at least Kent hits the ball hard occasionally, he is still projected for 17 HR and 87 RBI's. At his age and on this team I would take that in a heart beat.
2008-05-17 14:01:44
100.   oshea2002
Lowe makes sense, he always claims he's better on short rest.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-05-17 14:03:17
101.   Bluebleeder87
Ethier (LF)
A.Jones (CF)
Kemp (RF)

That's my outfield Dodger all-stars.

2008-05-17 14:05:14
102.   Bob Hendley
100 - Also gives him a chance to show his stuff against one of those laid back Southern California teams.
2008-05-17 14:05:57
103.   MyTummyHurts
is Mariano Duncan our 1st base coach?
2008-05-17 14:06:00
104.   Icaros
If Torre really is big on working counts, then I'm not surprised he wants to send Hu down.
2008-05-17 14:06:06
105.   68elcamino427
Your loyalty to Jones is very nice, but wouldn't it be fun to give Young 100 at bats?
2008-05-17 14:06:19
106.   Marty
Penny is missing tomorrow's start?
2008-05-17 14:06:37
107.   Ken Noe
We're a dozen games away from beginning the second third of the season, the traditional time for re-evaluating and shuffling players. We're also 18-20 games away from Jones' 200th AB, that magic point when Bowa said they'd know about Jones. That's the first weekend in June, against the Cubs in DS, FWIW.
2008-05-17 14:08:22
108.   Bluebleeder87

I wouldn't be appose to that.

2008-05-17 14:08:45
109.   68elcamino427
Maza, having the time of his life!
2008-05-17 14:09:00
110.   Reddog
I say we package Pierre, LaRoche and either Penny or Lowe for Matt Holliday. Then we have a nice everyday outfield of Kemp, Ethier and Holliday.
2008-05-17 14:10:33
111.   Icaros

How would you feel about receiving that package if you were a Rockies fan?

2008-05-17 14:10:52
112.   regfairfield
110 I don't think the Rockies would agree to that.
2008-05-17 14:11:57
113.   JoeyP
Maybe Park really is the most valuable pitcher on the Dodgers...

And Dewitt is taking the Hanley Ramirez path to the majors.

Do nothing in the minors, then all the sudden put it all together in the majors.

2008-05-17 14:12:39
114.   Bob Hendley
107 - It would be good for them to get Pew Wee out there a bit more during that period, before they start making moves that they later regret.
2008-05-17 14:12:47
115.   LoneStar7
11 I would feel good thats way too much to give away in my opinion
2008-05-17 14:13:22
116.   Bluebleeder87
outside corner!
2008-05-17 14:13:41
117.   Bluebleeder87
Park has him thinking inside, go outside
2008-05-17 14:14:11
118.   Bluebleeder87
fastball up, come on Park...
2008-05-17 14:14:19
119.   Icaros

You'd want Pierre and Lowe?

2008-05-17 14:14:25
120.   regfairfield
115 What would you give up for Holliday?
2008-05-17 14:14:42
121.   Bluebleeder87
he did it! I'm thinking like Russell is, woo hoo!!
2008-05-17 14:15:31
122.   Ken Noe
110 Moving a Pierre-Lowe package would require a reckless trading partner desperate to compete. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the New York Yankees.
2008-05-17 14:16:10
123.   MMSMikey
2008-05-17 14:16:22
124.   ucladodger
Again, why Loney is not an elite fielding first baseman yet. Lapse of concentration on fairly east plays.
2008-05-17 14:16:32
125.   Reddog
We never seem to be at our best against the Angels.
2008-05-17 14:16:37
126.   Bluebleeder87
Bennett has infiltrated his bad play on the Rooks.
2008-05-17 14:16:44
127.   68elcamino427
#7, say it ain't so.
2008-05-17 14:17:13
128.   JoeyP
Loney is not a good 1st basemen.
2008-05-17 14:17:14
129.   LoneStar7
Nooo, Lonestar rushed that throw dang it
2008-05-17 14:17:34
130.   LoneStar7
128 ..........
2008-05-17 14:18:19
131.   dodgerkramer1
Loney is a bad fielder, period.

He might be good someday, but right now he's a bad fielder.

2008-05-17 14:18:32
132.   MMSMikey
lets just keep giving them runs.
2008-05-17 14:19:10
133.   oshea2002
Loney just almost got Hu killed there.
2008-05-17 14:19:26
134.   ucladodger
People are easily swayed by the great plays he makes seem easy. But he makes so many mistakes compared to any above average 1B man
2008-05-17 14:20:07
135.   dodgerkramer1
134: Amen
2008-05-17 14:20:14
136.   Bluebleeder87
in all fairness to Loney, I've seen him practice that play FLAWLESSLY during practice.
2008-05-17 14:20:16
137.   LoneStar7
131 Loney makes mistakes, and loses his concentration, but I think hes very far from a bad fielder..
2008-05-17 14:21:04
138.   Chiron Brown
Ladies and gentlemen, your Los Angeles Odgers.
2008-05-17 14:21:45
139.   dodgerkramer1
and park is a 3-inning pitcher.
2008-05-17 14:22:15
140.   68elcamino427
Park is doing a good job.
2008-05-17 14:22:17
141.   oshea2002
Loney has made some bad plays, but he's part of the solution, not the problems on this time.

This inning sort of sums up the season as to why we're a middling team.

2008-05-17 14:22:28
142.   ucladodger

So? Why we talkin bout practice? This is a game. Making any play in practice is easy, especially for a major leaguer.

2008-05-17 14:22:44
143.   Bluebleeder87

we need to practice patients right now.

2008-05-17 14:23:36
144.   Alice S
140 Not every day you basically get five outs in an inning :/
2008-05-17 14:23:49
145.   LoneStar7
139 Park has pitched great today, "our horrible first baseman" is responsible for these runs i thought..
2008-05-17 14:24:33
146.   Bluebleeder87
Park has nothing to be ashamed of he's pitched an awesome team, his defense out to be ashamed though.
2008-05-17 14:25:05
147.   dodgerkramer1
{145} did you forget the HBP?
2008-05-17 14:25:22
148.   68elcamino427
Park's like he's throwing two innings here, one more out, lets go.
2008-05-17 14:25:32
149.   Bluebleeder87
take notes boys, that's why you DON'T WANNA give outs away.
2008-05-17 14:26:48
150.   LoneStar7
147 yea but hes pitched a great game, he made one mistake but would of been out of the inning with a good throw from loney
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-05-17 14:28:30
151.   Bluebleeder87
FASTBALL??? that was an off-speed pitch no guys? Stockton said it was a fastball.
2008-05-17 14:29:16
152.   LoneStar7
151 haha yea i heard that too
2008-05-17 14:29:32
153.   Bluebleeder87
It's like the Dodgers wanna lose [here Halos have the game, we don't wanna win]
2008-05-17 14:29:54
154.   sporky
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
2008-05-17 14:30:32
155.   dodgerkramer1
now bring in kuo for 3 innings
2008-05-17 14:30:38
156.   Reddog
Nice play by Maza. Kent probably would've flubbed it.
2008-05-17 14:30:54
157.   68elcamino427
Maza and Hu pick up Loney. Great job by Park, hope he can keep going for a win.
2008-05-17 14:31:12
158.   regfairfield
Yeah, he is pretty old.
2008-05-17 14:31:25
159.   Gen3Blue
Is it Kuo time yet. I can't tell with gameday sort of hung. Yes its another FOX Tm Dodgerless Saturday.
2008-05-17 14:32:02
160.   Louis in SF
That was a great inning by Park, considering the plays by Loney and the broken bat single. He really batteled, in the early part of his career with the Dodgers, I recall it was Karros who said he didn't have heart as a pitcher. He showed it in that inning.
2008-05-17 14:32:07
161.   JoeyP
82 pitches for Park in 4ip.
Dodgers are playing with fire if they trot him out for one more to face the top of the Halos lineup.
2008-05-17 14:32:18
162.   LoneStar7
Well add loney to that package for holliday, throw him in there too and we're good to go. He'll be a great replacement for Helton..
2008-05-17 14:33:56
163.   JoeyP
I agree.
It's Kuo time.

Kuo for the 5th, 6th, 7th, then Brox/Saito.

2008-05-17 14:35:36
164.   Bluebleeder87
o.k. we've got things cooking, yes!
2008-05-17 14:35:56
165.   68elcamino427
Russell Martin-Campanella-Berra.
2008-05-17 14:37:12
166.   Bluebleeder87

sprinkle in those ingredients & WA-LA!, we've got victory!!

2008-05-17 14:38:13
167.   Greg Brock
Santana really has to bear down right here. Let's see if he can get MARK SWEENEY out.


2008-05-17 14:38:24
168.   Andrew Shimmin
Helton is signed through 2011. Like Juan Pierre.
2008-05-17 14:38:25
169.   JoeyP
Santana looks like 2007 Santana this afternoon.
2008-05-17 14:38:48
170.   MMSMikey
where is the pop in loneys bat?
2008-05-17 14:39:00
171.   oshea2002
I thought DH meant you have someone better then a pitcher hitting?
2008-05-17 14:39:17
172.   Greg Brock
Amazing job gettin MARK SWEENEY with men on.

Good work, Santana. And good work, Dodger organization.

2008-05-17 14:39:53
173.   LoneStar7
168 i was being sarcastic, but yea i didnt actually know helton was signed through that long
2008-05-17 14:40:08
174.   dodgerkramer1
we're in trouble.
2008-05-17 14:41:17
175.   Reddog
I think it makes sense to play Delwyn Young rather than Sweeney.
2008-05-17 14:41:57
176.   Bluebleeder87
I'm gonna love watching the Kuo versus Guerrero match up, it's gonna be interesting.
2008-05-17 14:42:48
177.   MMSMikey
here we go...
2008-05-17 14:43:13
178.   oshea2002
175 - I get why Young is on the roster. But if they think so little of him that they won't use him over Sweeney, then just trade him or cut him.
2008-05-17 14:43:39
179.   MMSMikey
kuo should have no problem gassing up matthews.
2008-05-17 14:43:41
180.   JoeyP
Good move by Torre to get Park out of there. I was worried he'd do the "get the PVL 5 innings so he can qualify for a win" garbage.
2008-05-17 14:44:13
181.   Bluebleeder87
If Kuo can some how make Guerrero swing & miss some outside pitches & THEN COME HIGH & TIGHT he'll K him.


2008-05-17 14:44:40
182.   Ken Noe
Before today Loney was seventh among NL 1b in fielding percentage with 2 E's--not great but hardly horrible either.
2008-05-17 14:46:03
183.   Bluebleeder87
Take a seat Mr. Matthews.
2008-05-17 14:46:43
184.   dodgerkramer1
182 that doesn't take into account all the throws he should have scooped.
2008-05-17 14:48:43
185.   Reddog
Park and Kuo make a pretty good one-two punch. Way better than Tomko and Hendrickson. Who signed Tomko and Hendrickson, by the way?
2008-05-17 14:49:11
186.   Bluebleeder87
Park pitched a great game, he's a fill in right (5th slot, fill in)
2008-05-17 14:50:20
187.   JoeyP
In Kuo's last 11 innings:

15 Ks
2 runs.

2008-05-17 14:50:33
188.   Ken Noe
185 But that could be said for many first basemen--I say that as a former first baseman.
2008-05-17 14:50:33
189.   Bluebleeder87
it kind of looked like Kuo wanted to bonce the baseball like a basketball...
2008-05-17 14:50:53
190.   dodgerkramer1
worst dodger defense since ... 1986?
2008-05-17 14:52:06
191.   regfairfield
Fielding percentage has almost nothing to do with being a good defender.

Loney ranks really badly in most defensive stats right now, but those numbers don't mean anything in a small sample size.

2008-05-17 14:52:55
192.   regfairfield
190 You really don't think we improved our defense from last year?
2008-05-17 14:53:34
193.   MMSMikey
watching this game has been like a trip to the dentist.
2008-05-17 14:53:54
194.   Bluebleeder87
nicely done Kuo, now let's keep it up for a few more innings.
2008-05-17 14:55:10
195.   dodgerkramer1
192 i suppose. that comment was a moment of frustration for me. sorry.
2008-05-17 14:56:16
196.   Reddog
This will be a good win if we can hold on. I think its up to our relievers now.
2008-05-17 14:56:40
197.   JoeyP
Team defensive efficiency ratings would say no.
2008-05-17 14:58:02
198.   regfairfield
197 Sample size. Loney isn't going to have an RZR 200 points below average all year.
2008-05-17 14:59:08
199.   68elcamino427
Karros did a good job of showing what is slowing down Jones' bat.
2008-05-17 15:03:21
200.   Greg Brock
199 I missed it. Did Karros show a Moons over My Hammy from Denny's? Perhaps a Triple Whopper with cheese?
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-05-17 15:03:32
201.   Louis in SF

Totally agree, so how do you cure it? Or can it be cured

2008-05-17 15:06:35
202.   Gen3Blue
199 How did he do that ? For us with no video.
2008-05-17 15:08:00
203.   ucladodger
Kuo is such a baller
2008-05-17 15:09:06
204.   dodgerkramer1
right now i have more faith in kuo than brox
2008-05-17 15:09:19
205.   Louis in SF
If you can and he has an easy 7th I say you try and allow him to go into the 8th, Kuo gets better each inning as he gains his control
2008-05-17 15:10:57
206.   dodgerkramer1
205 wishful thinking. Kuo, like Park, is a 3-inning pitcher.
2008-05-17 15:11:28
207.   JoeyP
18-1 Ks to bbs over his last 13 innings.

Kuo's been lights out.

2008-05-17 15:15:02
208.   68elcamino427
Easy fix, just have Bowa stand next to Jones in the batting cage and yell full force on each swing that Jones takes, "QUIT STICKING YOUR BUTT OUT BEFORE YOU MOVE YOUR HANDS!"
2008-05-17 15:17:29
209.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm having trouble concentrating because of that large bellied topless man sitting right behind the DirectTV ad.
2008-05-17 15:18:10
210.   Jon Weisman
This is one of those days where the comments seem excessively bitter. There's being too rah-rah, and then there's the opposite.
2008-05-17 15:19:01
211.   Andrew Shimmin
Fox should digitally obscure him.
2008-05-17 15:20:25
212.   sporky
209 I'm glad I don't have HDTV.
2008-05-17 15:20:38
213.   Bob Timmermann
I'm listening in my office with Terry Smith and Rex Hudler. Hudler is a lot easier to deal with on the radio. He's less hyper.
2008-05-17 15:23:04
214.   Greg Brock
210 Angels stink!
2008-05-17 15:24:50
215.   JoeyP
Halos looked like the bad news bears on that double steal of home.
2008-05-17 15:25:26
216.   oshea2002
I think everyone's still on edge after the heart attack the Lakers almost gave us yesterday.
2008-05-17 15:25:34
217.   MollyKnight
210- I was just about to say that. I came in here and read the comments before I checked the score, and I was sure we were losing 20-1.
2008-05-17 15:26:47
218.   Bob Timmermann
For those not scoring at home, and we all know it's too hot for that, that was actually a CS for Martin and Pierre scored on a FC.
2008-05-17 15:27:18
219.   CanuckDodger
210 -- Yeah, when people pile on Loney over some little boo-boo, they're cruising for a bruisin', and I'm the cruise director.
2008-05-17 15:28:22
220.   regfairfield
Is there anyway to change Canuck's name to Captain Brusin'?
2008-05-17 15:28:53
221.   Andrew Shimmin
219- Do you think DeWitt could handle 1B? Maybe we could get a new backup catcher for Loney. . .
2008-05-17 15:29:18
222.   JoeyP
219--Loney's a nice stop gap at 1st until the Dodgers sign Texiera ;)...
2008-05-17 15:30:19
223.   Andrew Shimmin
220- Canuck already has the rockingest name of all: Repent or Burn.
2008-05-17 15:31:28
224.   Alice S
Whaaaa, when did we get a pitcher named "Chad Lowe"? Shake yourself, Stockton!
2008-05-17 15:31:42
225.   Greg Brock
219 Will there be dancing on the lanai?
2008-05-17 15:32:34
226.   sporky
221 But he of the poor fielding percentage couldn't even fetch a poor man's Molina!
2008-05-17 15:32:49
227.   Icaros

Hopefully an ice sculpture or two.

2008-05-17 15:34:17
228.   Greg Brock
The good thing about having a cruise directed by a Calvinist is that the whole thing is planned ahead of time.
2008-05-17 15:34:40
229.   Andrew Shimmin
Topless guy put his shirt back on. I wonder how much the producer had to pay him.
2008-05-17 15:35:28
230.   Louis in SF
Jon I think you are correct there is more bitterness perhaps than at other times and other years. I think at many times the Dodgers actually had less options with their talent pool this year it is different and some of the decisions in my mind don't make sense despite the public statements.

One other note, Karros whatever his flaws are as an announcer, his analysis of Jones problems have been excellent, especially seeing him open up at the plate. I have to think it is frustrating for everyone to see this and know he isn't going to have his PT rationed because of his contract. Many people on this site thought that with the way Torre handled JP in the spring and set up the outfield everyone wanted, with only 40 games in the season-the whole outfield situation has blown up-that makes me bitter

2008-05-17 15:39:10
231.   ucladodger
2008-05-17 15:39:44
232.   Andrew Shimmin
Good throw gets DeWitt, there. But the throw wasn't any good.
2008-05-17 15:40:03
233.   Marty
Stockton and Karros make me want to jam chopsticks into my ears.
2008-05-17 15:42:01
234.   Greg Brock
233 That's not very positive, Marty.
2008-05-17 15:42:33
235.   Louis in SF
It had to be a perfect throw and with 2 outs and Hu coming up it was the right play to send DeWitt
2008-05-17 15:43:03
236.   ToyCannon
Maza is good at 2nd, lousy at SS but he looks like an improvement over Lucille II to me.
At the moment it would seem that Hu could use full time at bats in AAA when Furcal comes back and Maza takes over the role as Kents caddy.
The Maza man is making more in per diem money then he ever made in the minors.
2008-05-17 15:43:24
237.   Marty
It is for me. Ah, sweet silence. Hearing is over-rated.
2008-05-17 15:43:50
238.   sporky
With all these advertisements for Casual Male XL, Flomax, Viagra, men's hair dye and the like, Fox doesn't seem to want my money.
2008-05-17 15:44:30
239.   Alex41592
I too would let Kuo pitch the eighth with a four run lead
2008-05-17 15:45:26
240.   sporky
Or viewership, at least.
2008-05-17 15:46:04
241.   ToyCannon
Kuo remains my favorite Dodger pitcher. At least someone I had faith in, is rewarding me.

DeWitt again

2008-05-17 15:46:43
242.   regfairfield
238 As a fat, balding, impotent man, I'm encouraged to watch more sports.
2008-05-17 15:47:29
243.   ToyCannon
And isn't it amazing how screwed up Fox thinks the older male species is.
2008-05-17 15:48:25
244.   ToyCannon
Maza time
2008-05-17 15:49:10
245.   Bob Timmermann
How do you know that it wasn't the companies that approached Fox for the commercials rather than the other way around?
2008-05-17 15:49:25
246.   Andrew Shimmin
It's like watching the news, except they haven't updated me on Dancing With The Stars, yet.
2008-05-17 15:49:36
247.   oshea2002
241 - my fiancee asked me who my favorite current dodger was - I hadn't thought of it, but his name popped into my head first.
2008-05-17 15:49:51
248.   Marty
It's going to be Maize time pretty soon. I'm grilling corn later this afternoon.
2008-05-17 15:49:52
249.   MollyKnight
I still don't understand why Kuo isn't our fifth starter. But, whatever. As long as he gets in there and kicks butt, I'm happy.
2008-05-17 15:51:41
250.   Reddog
I think this game should go a long way towards accepting DeWitt as our 3rd baseman. Right now I think he's our best hitter. Of course, when Nomar comes back it will be interesting to see what Torre does with him.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-05-17 15:51:46
251.   ToyCannon
I can go away and leave you with the cranky group if you want.
2008-05-17 15:51:48
252.   nick
if Park and Kuo were each half a #5 starter how good could they be? assuming they rarely got knocked out and pitched 4 each, 30 starts, that's a 120 inning load max--more like 110 each; you could also use them on their throw day once in a while....
2008-05-17 15:52:03
253.   Marty
With Stockton and Karros around, Pierre will never need viagra.
2008-05-17 15:52:20
254.   LAT
219/220 How about we call him Julie McCoy? Was there ever a more famous cruise director?
2008-05-17 15:53:24
255.   Ken Noe
There's some expensive marketing survey out there that says Fox baseball fans have gray hair, healthy appetites, pesky prostates, and the urge to sit outside in bathtubs. That's why I favor the internet, along with America's virile youth.
2008-05-17 15:53:42
256.   ToyCannon
I think in the future a tag team of Kershaw/Kuo will be killer perfect if it wasn't for the fact they are both lefthanded.
2008-05-17 15:53:55
257.   Greg Brock
The question isn't if the Rays can keep it up for a full year. The Question is "Is Karros a terrible announcer?"

And the answer is yes. Yes, he is. A terrible announcer.

2008-05-17 15:54:21
258.   ToyCannon
Ah, good ole Bob Starr.
2008-05-17 15:54:39
259.   sporky
253 I wholeheartedly prefer the topless man over that mental image.
2008-05-17 15:55:25
260.   ToyCannon
As long as the Rays take their viagra they should have no problem.
2008-05-17 15:55:46
261.   Greg Brock
256 They could never be an effective tag team. Bigger teams like Demolition and the Rock N Roll Express would kill them.

They don't even have a finishing move.

2008-05-17 15:56:51
262.   Marty
No Mr. Karros, Martin didn't start taking walks when he was slumping. He always has.
2008-05-17 15:57:05
263.   ToyCannon
Nice when we win a game with our 5th starter beating one of the hottest AL pitchers.

Sit down Casey

2008-05-17 15:58:08
264.   oshea2002
261 - I liked it when they brought in the 3rd member, made for great cheating possibilities.
2008-05-17 15:58:16
265.   Gen3Blue
210 Jon, I've found that the only way I can keep from being excessively bitter in regards to management's player decisions is to just shut up. Which I have been doing. I just hope the restraint of many DT commenters has not been interpreted as acceptance. I got a feeling in ST that the fuss that informed fans were raising ( such as the poll for what outfield to play) actually may have had a bit of influence.
2008-05-17 16:00:49
266.   Greg Brock
Broxton and Andruw, however, would be a killer tag team.

They could call them Hot and Cold. Or Fast and Slow.

Or Good and Not Very Good At All.

2008-05-17 16:01:22
267.   ToyCannon
Looks like we will win a game with Hu, Maza, Pierre and Chan Ho Park starting a game.

I guess Chicken Little will need another day to do his little song and dance.

2008-05-17 16:01:37
268.   regfairfield
This has to be the first game ever that was pitched by three Asian pitchers from three different countries.
2008-05-17 16:01:57
269.   Jon Weisman
265 - I wouldn't worry about DT being over-restrained.
2008-05-17 16:02:19
270.   ToyCannon
Kuroda is not impressed with how good Broxton is.
2008-05-17 16:04:15
271.   LAT
Speaking of ads, I can't believe One-A-Day paid a licensing fee to MLB. Will anyone buy a bottle of vitamans because they are MLB endorsed.
2008-05-17 16:04:27
272.   Lexinthedena
266 Or Phat & Fat.
2008-05-17 16:04:50
273.   Greg Brock
Adam Dunn continues to be the type of player we have no interest in.
2008-05-17 16:05:00
274.   Marty
I'd buy Vitagex if I could find it.
2008-05-17 16:05:33
275.   Gen3Blue
Speaking of Chicken Little "don't count----
2008-05-17 16:05:34
276.   ToyCannon
I only buy vitamans that are endorsed by Marvel characters.

Is your AC working today?

2008-05-17 16:05:55
277.   ucladodger
Hu must have really small hands. He has a ton of trouble getting the ball out of his glove in a hurry.
2008-05-17 16:06:19
278.   MollyKnight
Question for the stat heads: has this now become a save situation for Saito?
2008-05-17 16:06:58
279.   Ken Noe
277 Steiner suggests his glove is too big.
2008-05-17 16:07:36
280.   Jon Weisman
278 - No, you can't create your own save situation.
2008-05-17 16:08:38
281.   Andrew Shimmin
271- They would if the ad implied that the vitamins were full of steroids. I think phase two of the ad campaign is going to be handled by the Enzyte people. Once they get out of jail.
2008-05-17 16:09:22
282.   ucladodger

No, you cant pitch yourself into a save situation

2008-05-17 16:09:53
283.   LAT
No and can't get anyone out to look at it. Bought a fan which is working ok long as I stay in front of it. Karma helped. A few months ago I found some guys Blackberry in the street, figured out his number and returned it to him. He sent me a $100 gift card for Brookstone which I forgot I had until today which I used to buy the fan.
2008-05-17 16:10:11
284.   ToyCannon
Now you have been type cast.

Amazing how Hu's little hands could make the transition from glove to ball for the final out.

2008-05-17 16:10:22
285.   sporky
We win!
2008-05-17 16:12:18
286.   MollyKnight
2008-05-17 16:12:39
287.   LAT
281. What Enzyte Bob is in jail? I bet he wishes he didn't have that enhanced package now. I'm also guessing he isn't grinning so much.
2008-05-17 16:13:23
288.   Marty
Another game tomorrow in the hot sun. This is one way to get Jones down to fighting weight.
2008-05-17 16:14:54
289.   LeeLacy
I'll take it. A win against the Angels is always worth savoring.
2008-05-17 16:15:23
290.   Bluebleeder87
It's about time win take one from the Halos.
2008-05-17 16:19:25
291.   CanuckDodger
281 -- Seriously, the Enzyte people went to jail? I liked their ads.
2008-05-17 16:21:19
292.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't think they put the actor in jail, just the huckster (and, thanks to the infallible depository of all human knowledge I now know, his mother) behind it. Looks like he hasn't been sentenced yet, but faces up to twenty years in prison.
2008-05-17 16:21:56
293.   Gen3Blue
Enzyte Bob. what a thought. You guys just made me laugh and lose all the bitterness I was about to vent about our treatment of young players.

I always love a subtle ad campaign.

2008-05-17 16:25:58
294.   rockmrete
I was just thinking that, when the talk of Holiday came up. This team still needs more power, and I think Loney can be a big trade chip if packaged properly. Assuming Ned is not involved in the discussions we could make room for Tex next year while moving Kent to First this year.




2008-05-17 16:33:20
295.   Bluebleeder87
the Park-Kuo thing worked out well for us.
2008-05-17 16:36:38
296.   68elcamino427
Great win for the Dodgers.
#33, DeWitt is announced as the player of the game.
Martin had a great game.
Maza had a great game.
Park had a great game.
Kuo had a great game.
Ethier had a good game :)
2008-05-17 16:40:02
297.   Bluebleeder87
Santana suffers his first loss of the year against there archtown rivals...
2008-05-17 16:40:46
298.   Greg Brock
ToyCannon had a great game commenting. Good job, Toy!

High five!

2008-05-17 16:43:18
299.   bigcpa
If Hu is sent down I really want to see DeWitt get some looks at 2B. It helps that he's a natural platoon partner with Kent. And that would open the door for LaRoche to come up after Sweeney gets cut.
2008-05-17 16:44:40
300.   Dodgers49
51s fail to cash in on errors in one-run loss to Portland

>> LaRoche, Xavier Paul and Danny Ardoin each had two of the 51s' seven hits. <<

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-05-17 16:48:03
301.   Bob Timmermann
My sarcasm detector's needle has redlined.
2008-05-17 16:54:08
302.   twerp
Bob, how is DJ Houlton doing in Japan? Thx.
2008-05-17 16:56:19
303.   Gen3Blue
Note for those dreaming of trades for power.
They rarely happen within your division, and you don't want to give up much for a thirty year old. There risky--look at Jones.
You could try and develop your own, instead of putting them on the bench or the minors.(Kemp,LaRoche)
2008-05-17 16:59:27
304.   Dodgers49
Penny scratched from Sunday start

>> Brad Penny has been scratched due to stiffness in his right arm, and Derek Lowe will move up a spot in the Dodgers' rotation and take his place for Sunday's series finale against the Angels. <<

2008-05-17 16:59:37
305.   Gen3Blue
294 My mistake, I took that seriously without seeing your affiliation.
2008-05-17 17:06:27
306.   Andrew Shimmin
Houlton has a 2.13 ERA over 12 2/3 IP. Five saves, it looks like. K/9 of about 12. He's like Saito in reverse!

2008-05-17 17:10:31
307.   underdog
So I watched this one on a bit of delay via Tivo, just finished. Allow me to join the chorus of "Woo hoos!" Anytime we beat the Angels, particularly in a game that didn't sound promising on paper (plus the Dodgers often struggle on Fox Sat games) -- but games aren't won on paper!

Feel bad Park didn't get a chance for a win, given how well he pitched. Some bad defense behind him sped his pitch count up and that was that but at least he battled out of it and unlike yesterday they didn't lose because of an error two. (Loney with the Sweeney throw there.)

But some nice clutch hitting and baserunning, and solid pitching, and victory is ours -- for at least today.

Btw, I didn't read all the comments -- only skimmed the earlier ones -- but didn't it seem like DeWitt's homer was legit? Karros kept saying the Dodgers got a break and it looked like Scioscia had reason to complain and so on, but it sure looked like it went over the wall, and a fan dropped it. Isn't that the rule?

Thru the magic of Tivo I watched it a few times even after the replay.

Anyway, great to get the win. Hope Lowe can be effective tomorrow.

2008-05-17 17:12:17
308.   underdog
Btw, as much as I love Hu's defense, and think his bat will come around, I don't think sending him down when Furcal comes back is the worst thing in the world. But I agree with those above who think that would be an opportunity to then call up LaRoche. Give him some time at 2nd, spot starts at 3rd. I think Hu will be fine but I do think he could use some tweaking in his hitting approach at the moment.

See y'all manana!

2008-05-17 17:16:12
309.   larry slimfast
don't know if this has been posted yet but...


"Dodgers manager Joe Torre thinks Ethier is the most emotional player in the dugout during games. "He's my Paul O'Neill," Torre said, alluding to the former Yankees outfielder. "When I first took over the Yankees, I heard how selfish Paul O'Neill was. Then I realized that people's idea of selfish was that he wants to get a hit every time up. That's how I see Andre Ethier. He takes his [frustration] out on equipment, as did O'Neill. One time I told O'Neill, 'Do what you want -- but if you get hurt to the point where you can't play, I'm gonna kill you.'""

2008-05-17 17:19:58
310.   MJW101
Why is Brazoban on the 25 man staff? He has only pitched 1 inn since his callup.

Torre apparently needs a 12 man pitching staff so he can handle the bullpen poorly.

Who is going to start in Cinn on Monday? Will he start Bills with short rest? Loiza should come off the DL on Sunday.

With Penny and Lowe not 100% what is Ned going to do?

So many questions, so few answers.

2008-05-17 17:20:26
311.   Greg Brock
Paul O'Neill also had to sit the bench in favor of garbage players in his youth.

Ethier really is Paul O'Neill!

2008-05-17 17:47:31
312.   Eric Enders
We may not have needed Brazoban this past week, but with 26 games in 27 days it seems likely we'll need him (or some other 12th pitcher) going forward.
2008-05-17 17:58:25
313.   MJW101
312 Brazoban has been on the 25 man for 8 games but has only pitched in one. During this period Saito was unavailable for 4 of the games resulting in a 6 man bullpen, yet Brazoban still do not pitch. I would assume that pitching in relief once every 9 or so games is not conducive to good control.
2008-05-17 18:21:32
314.   still bevens
Looks like Kershaw had some command issues today - 5.2 IP, 4H, 4BB, 5K, 3ER.
2008-05-17 18:25:03
315.   the2pin
Adam Dunn is the player this team needs. I realize that he doesn't hit for average, but he's an OBP machine and he's athletic enough to score runs. Of course, he's also a strong bet to hit 40 HR each year and Cinn is looking to move someone in order to get Jay Bruce more playing time.

I dont know what it would take to land Dunn, but I this Dodger team still needs a bat.

Actually playing Kemp -- the best healthy position player on the team -- and something like a .320/15/19 player in his last 130 games, might also help.

2008-05-17 18:38:04
316.   Bumsrap
What the Dodgers is something that others have been unable to find as well and that is an exit plan. They need to set a date to pull Kent and Jones out of the lineup.

I would like to set June 1, 2008 as the exit date for Jones and Kent giving the Dodgers two weeks to find a second baseman and allowing Kent and Jones two more weeks to prove they will make a big enough contribution to justify not giving more experience to Kemp, Ethier, and LaRoche.

Same should go for Lowe and Penny.

2008-05-17 18:43:00
317.   Gen3Blue
316 This whole situation is incredible. But we need to remember it is not as much our problem as it is C. and T's funeral. And that might be good for the team. It seems to always be a shake of the dice.
2008-05-17 18:50:35
318.   underdog
315 I don't mean any offense, but there were literally the same calls for Adam Dunn last year -- which is not to discount it, but I get a feeling of deja vu after awhile. I do agree that it would not surprise me to see either Dunn or Griffey traded before the deadline this year. But I don't see how he helps the Dodgers, unless they can unload Pierre in the process, and even then all it does is create a new logjam in the outfield. Also as I've written here before, Dunn's defense is very subpar and he strikes out a lot. What the Dodgers need, imho, is the players they have to perform more consistently and for Torre to really settle on the best lineup possible. I feel like Dunn would just add to the team's schizophrenic nature.

What they also need is for more consistent starting pitching, which they've started to get the past few games, and better defense. Not sure how Dunn helps either.

2008-05-17 18:53:31
319.   Bob Hendley
I don't necessarily feel that Kent and Druw won't come around, at least somewhat. But I am not willing to bet that they come around enough to save the season, as Colletti and perhaps Torre do.
2008-05-17 18:53:42
320.   underdog
Btw, as Tony Jackson pointed out today, this seems like the first time --but I haven't been able to confirm for sure (Bob?) that a team won a game by using all Asian pitchers (excluding complete games pitched by Asian starters, of course). Chan Ho Park (Korea), Hong-Chih Kuo (Taiwan), Takashi Saito (Japan).
2008-05-17 18:54:19
321.   Bumsrap
"The good thing about having a cruise directed by a Calvinist is that the whole thing is planned ahead of time."

Well done Greg

2008-05-17 18:55:14
322.   Jon Weisman
316 - There's a greater chance of me getting fired from Dodger Thoughts than Joe Torre getting fired from the Dodgers this year.
2008-05-17 18:55:28
323.   Jon Weisman
Sorry - that was for 317.
2008-05-17 18:57:54
324.   Jon Weisman
Assuming you figured before this season that DeWitt was capable of this kind of performance at some point in his career, what year would you have predicted it would happen.?
2008-05-17 19:02:24
325.   Jon Weisman
How long has Kent had a lower OBP than Jones?
2008-05-17 19:03:29
326.   Jon Weisman
What do you think about when you turn out the light?
2008-05-17 19:04:49
327.   Jon Weisman
Have you never been mellow?
2008-05-17 19:05:39
328.   Bumsrap
324 - I thought DeWitt would have been in Vegas last year and Abreu and Nomar would play third most of the first half of 2008 at third. That didn't happen. I thought DeWitt would have more of a chance of playing with the Dodgers in 2008 had Nomar been able to hold down third the first half of this year. DeWitt has been at least a half a year ahead of when I thought he might play for the Dodgers and a year behind when I thought he would be playing third for Vegas.
2008-05-17 19:16:03
329.   Marty
For a while I thought this had turned into an onanist blog.
2008-05-17 19:22:46
330.   CanuckDodger
329 -- As in Masaoka? A blog devoted to Dodger reliever-for-five-seconds Onan Masaoka.
2008-05-17 19:23:12
331.   dzzrtRatt
You can thank me for today's win. I avoided the game except a little bit on the radio (during which I got so ticked at Charlie/Rick's refusal to give the score, or when they did failing to identify which team had what score, I turned on my iPod). I was sure they'd lose. And they won! I did hear DeWitt's homer.

We need to just embrace Kent and Jones as slumping players who will come around. They're not "done." Torre can send Hu to the minors after Furcal is activated - that's probably wise. But in return we should get LaRoche. It is so so so time. DeWitt and LaRoche can platoon. I suspect Nomar will be injured for awhile, so his status shouldn't even be entered into the calculations. I'd rather see DeWitt or LaRoche flail a bit at second or short than any other scenario, including Adam Dunn (who would play where?)

2008-05-17 19:25:30
332.   dzzrtRatt
311 Tell Torre your Ethier is Paul O'Neill theory. Torre loved O'Neill and O'Neill played well for him.

When O'Neill was on the Reds, he was the guy I never wanted to see come to the plate with runners on. He always, unfailingly, scorched the Dodgers

2008-05-17 19:35:10
333.   regfairfield
316 So if our two best starters don't turn it around in two weeks, you would boot them out of the rotation?
2008-05-17 20:01:23
334.   Bluebleeder87
Remembering some bloopers didn't o'neall kick a ball back to the infield once (when he was still with the Reds)
2008-05-17 20:06:40
335.   natepurcell
So....who wins the month and a half into the season Rookie of the Year Award in the NL?
2008-05-17 20:07:08
336.   Bob Hendley
331 - I don't think that you need to consider them "done", but I wouldn't count of them doing all that much more than they are doing now,and we need to adjust to that. So I would be happy to embrace them as slumping as opposed to done, if that means that we can sit them and have them work there way out of there slumps, instead of keeping others on the bench or in the minors(Ethier/LaRoche).
2008-05-17 20:07:44
337.   LAT
I feel like Dunn would just add to the team's schizophrenic nature.


2008-05-17 20:08:58
338.   LAT
[322-327] JW with the rare 6-pack post.
2008-05-17 20:09:06
339.   LAT
[322-327] JW with the rare 6-pack post.
2008-05-17 20:12:43
340.   LAT
Apprently I am inadvertantly trying to break his record. I'll take my finger off the "submit" key now.
2008-05-17 20:19:59
341.   Bob Hendley
I need to stop you before you break Jon's record. Sorry
2008-05-17 20:20:32
342.   Bob Timmermann
6-pack alert canceled.

Stand dowon

2008-05-17 20:22:18
343.   Bob Hendley
335 - We need to celebrate the Solution, but we also need to get LaRoche back into the bigs before he receives the PCL Player of the Month Award.
2008-05-17 20:29:35
344.   natepurcell
Did anyone listen to Kershaw's start today? The reason his state line didn't look that pretty in his last start because he was emphasizing his change up a lot more trying to get that down.

Anyone know if it was the same situation for today? Those walks are very uncharacteristic of him for this year.

2008-05-17 20:30:37
345.   preacherroe
Jeez, some of the comments in mid game are depressing. It reminds me of the old ESPN Dodger board (probably its still that way) .Loney who has been very consistent,on a pace for 100 rbi makes an error and all the sudden he's persona non grata. With two veteran starters either hurt or struggling, lets trade McDonald and Meloan, two of the better young arms.I'm as frustrated as any with Ned signing useless vets and Torre playing them, but the cure is not to start dumping the kids and signing another stiff like Dunn.
2008-05-17 20:39:59
346.   Sammy Maudlin
John Lindsay has 3 home runs and 7 rbi in just 5 innings for Las Vegas tonight.
2008-05-17 20:49:42
347.   skybluestoday
Heck, I thought it was a good game today -- I'm just so thrilled that the Dodgers won. The only thing I felt at all bad about was that Park was pitching quite well and a couple of defensive miscues protracted that 4th inning and got him pulled from the game.

But that stuff happens...

Nice to beat the Angels on national (or at least regional-national) TV to boot!

2008-05-17 20:51:15
348.   kinbote
346 And he still can't get his name spelled right! :)
2008-05-17 21:08:50
349.   Sam DC
335 Is the Reds' Volquez a rookie?
2008-05-17 21:12:04
350.   berkowit28
Hey! Arizona lost! To Detroit, no less, 3-2.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-05-17 21:13:01
351.   Bob Timmermann
I believe would still be considered a rookie even though this is his fourth season in the majors. Nearly all of his previous innings have been in September.
2008-05-17 21:13:37
352.   Bob Timmermann
Barry Zito lost tonight and is now 0-8.
2008-05-17 21:14:03
353.   Andrew Shimmin
No. He threw eighty innings in Texas over the last three years.
2008-05-17 21:16:40
354.   Andrew Shimmin
It's 45 days of 25 man roster time (outside of September) OR a 50 IP maximum right? Wikipedia says so!
2008-05-17 21:17:58
355.   Bob Timmermann
We need a Venn diagram to solve the problem for us.
2008-05-17 21:25:33
356.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume that since MLB didn't even list Volquez as a nominee for Rookie of the Month in April, that no Venn diagram is needed.
2008-05-17 21:29:48
357.   Sam DC
Rats. I'm a sucker for a good Venn diagram.
2008-05-17 21:50:11
358.   Bob Hendley
How about a Venn diagram of Zito's decisions and losses?
2008-05-17 22:04:06
359.   underdog
345 Yep. Kinda why I skipped reading through all the comments earlier; got a hint that there was more flipping out than I needed to see, since I wanted to just enjoy the win.

358 Inego Montoya: "I do not think it means what you think it means." No but seriously, I think that would be a sad, empty little diagram.

2008-05-17 22:06:13
360.   Daniel Zappala
I would have been around to help out with more positive comments today, except I was painting most of the time. After all, I'm the guy who predicted 97 wins this season, and I'm still holding out hope for a Freeway Series.
2008-05-17 22:08:10
361.   Bluebleeder87
man, 0 & 8 wowzers.

You know what though, I really hope Penny just needs a little extra rest, I'm sure he'll get back on track.

2008-05-17 22:12:25
362.   Bob Hendley
Little, it would not be.
2008-05-17 22:20:29
363.   Bluebleeder87
time & time again Seaben (sp?) makes either bad trades or signs somebody washed up & STILL the owners keep him around, He really must have a good working relationship with them or something.
2008-05-17 22:25:18
364.   scareduck
318 - last year?

2008-05-17 22:36:08
365.   underdog
364 Hah. And I almost added, "And I think the year before." No wonder I had deja-vu-itis. Man, time flies when you're following baseball, fruitlessly.
2008-05-17 22:47:26
366.   bigcpa
364 I think this year calls for a Free Andy LaRoche outing. Vegas baby!
2008-05-17 22:54:07
367.   gpellamjr
364 just makes me sadder for never having met any of you in person. And then I comfort myself with the realization that nobody likes me, so I am better off left with the fantasy.
2008-05-17 22:57:38
368.   LoneStar7
good win, I had to step away from the board for a while when many started to jump all over loney, call him a terrible fielder and first baseman, and say we should trade him..

On a lighter note, the solution was huge, Chan Ho and Kuo gave us solid innings, and there is reason to be hopeful considering we just beat ervin santana!

good day, good game, lets hope Lowe is on track tomorrow

2008-05-17 23:02:10
369.   Xeifrank
Missed the game from the 5th inning on. Glad Guo was able to pitch well and was able to pitch some high leverage innings, especially the 5th inning. My feelings (Guo Mania) about his current role are a mixed bag. Atleast the team won, and he has picked up a few wins in relief. The Dodgers magic number is now only 125. :)
vr, Xei
2008-05-17 23:04:14
370.   underdog
Catcher's Interference alert!

Okay, it was in AAA, Las Vegas, but it was the Dodgers' own AJ Ellis. Three cheers for AJ "I can do that, Bennett" Ellis.

2008-05-17 23:07:03
371.   dzzrtRatt
363 Aha!

All of Bluebleeder's previous misspellings were deliberate, Joycean puns! The man is a genius!

We know this because in comment #363, Bluebleeder knew enough to do this: "...time & time again Seaben (sp?)..."

When has Bluebleeder ever used "(sp)" before?

Even "Seaben" is sort of funny, given his stadium's proximity to the Bay.

2008-05-17 23:09:27
372.   berkowit28
371 I'll remember "Hale Marry" for quite some time, that's for sure.
2008-05-17 23:14:00
373.   dzzrtRatt
This is a day for revelations. Juan Pierre has finally admitted something long suspected. From the story on today's game:

"That is one of those things that is just instinct. Russell did a good job staying in the rundown," Pierre said. "Scoring a run without getting a hit, that is what I like to do. I like to make things happen."

Pierre's not a bad hitter; he's an out-of-the-box thinker!

A perfect season for Pierre? Hit .000 and lead the league in runs scored. It's just crazy enough...

2008-05-17 23:24:02
374.   gpellamjr
371/373 Is it just today's game that's got you in such a jovial mood, or has something else wonderful happened that you could share with us?
2008-05-17 23:35:24
375.   berkowit28
I have to confess that I still feel there's something unsatisfactory about today's win. Don't worry, I'll take it! And there were a lot of good things, plus I guess we were due for a bit of luck. But it still feels wrong that Torre is not playing the best players, and that we'll be punished for it, just not today.

It's also frustrating that the mainstream journalists who have direct access to Torre and Colletti never seem to ask them the obvious questions, and the commentators on TV hardly ever discuss them either. If it's so obvious to us, why isn't it obvious to them? Either they or we are stupid and wrong, or else there's some sort of unwritten pact that reporters are never supposed to ask obvious questions that might show up the management. Is that what it is? Are all the reporters that get to ask them questions employees of the team, and told to lay off? ALL of them?

Why don't they play Kemp and Ethier every day since they're the two best OF hitters, especially with Furcal down? Why did Kemp sit today? Why was Sweeney DH rather than Kemp, or Young? Why keep playing the dead bats, day after day? Why isn't any reporter asking these questions and putting them on the spot?

Can we hope that the vets are being given every chance to make good, and that the day will come sometime in June when Torre says "Enough"? I guess we'll find out. We musn't forget that the ballplayers are human beings, and the manager will have a feel for when it can help the team in the long run to let formerly good players have a bit of slack. but sooner or later, there has to come a point when enough is enough. I don't understand why no one is forcing them to answer these questions.

2008-05-17 23:36:23
376.   LAT
363. I assume Magowan signed off or even engineered the Zito signing, (otherwise known as the worst deal in baseball history). Magowan thought he could catch lightning in a bottle twice. It was so easy the first time. Look at the bright side Pete, at least your legacy will no longer be the poster boy for steroids.
2008-05-18 00:39:16
377.   bhsportsguy
375 Maybe because they already know the answers and you just can't keep asking the same questions day after day?

Sweeney was DH today because Torre wanted to give him some at-bats since he will rarely start ahead of Loney. I'd guess Torre will say that he needs Pierre to bat first right now with Furcal out and that he still needs to get Jones at bats which means Ethier or Kemp would sit and Kemp has been down recently and has not hit well against RHs this year.

2008-05-18 01:33:10
378.   jasonungar07
Needs a .229 obp out of leadoff in 11 games. With 4 runs scored. I have heard it all.
2008-05-18 02:07:27
379.   Benjamin Miracord
I miss Eric Enders talking to himself at this hour.
2008-05-18 02:41:48
380.   Marty
You've just got me, reading to myself
2008-05-18 03:48:41
381.   Dodger Jack
Well, DeWitt won yet another game for us yesterday, hitting a dinger and double. Are there still posters out there who want to send him down to the minors and replace him with LaRoche? The latter does not even have at Las Vegas the numbers DeWitt has achieved with the big club.

I am having a hard time understanding why these posters allow LaRoche's potential to outweigh DeWitt's proven performance.

But let's talk potential. True, this year's Baseball America Prospect Handbook did rank LaRoche second and DeWitt fifth. But read what it said about each. It describes LaRoche as a "slightly below average defender with a solid-average arm." It rates DeWitt as "an adequate defender with a solid-average arm." It describes LaRoche as "a below average runner with unexceptional range defensively." It rates DeWitt as a 35 on a 20-80 scale for foot speed. Both are rated as good hitters. It says that DeWitt "has a smooth, repeatable lefthanded swing that creates consistent hard contact and enables him to keep his hands inside the ball. He can let balls travel deep and get enough extension to drive them out of the park. His pitch selection and plate discipline also contribute to his above-average feel for hitting."

Some scouts worried that DeWitt would lack sufficient power to play third base in the bigs. They said the same thing about Loney. Results refute that concern for both players.

The idea of sending the Dodger's current best hitter to Las Vegas and bringing up LaRoche is absurd.

But it does make sense to start playing LaRoche at second base. Kent is currently two for 33. Let's give LaRoche a shot there, once he establishes his game at Las Vegas.

Why put LaRoche at second rather than DeWitt? The team tried DeWitt at second in the minors and it didn't work out. DeWitt has won the third base job. LaRoche didn't hit with the big team last year, though he did have a nice OBP, and never hit in spring training. He also seems to be injury prone.

Some posters seem to believe that because LaRoche has a brother in the bigs and his father was a good MLB pitcher that he should be our third baseman. Is this some kind of ancestral divine right? I don't get it.

Keep The Solution at third. Start playing LaRoche at second in Las Vegas, then bring him up when his bat starts to heat up, and put him in Kent's spot.

2008-05-18 04:43:39
382.   PHilldodger
381 I don't think anyone has advocated playing Andy LaRoche because his brother Adam is in the big leagues.

And just to clarify, DeWitt currently has an OPS of .933. LaRoche's OPS at Las Vegas is 1.110, with an OBP of .515. Is that considered heating up?

2008-05-18 05:12:33
383.   Marty
Well, I still would prefer LaRoche over Dewitt, but it's certainly hard to argue with Blake's play so far. The real problem I think is we are soon going to be complaining about Nomar playing over both of them.
2008-05-18 05:46:15
384.   Indiana Jon
381 The idea of sending the Dodger's current best hitter to Las Vegas and bringing up LaRoche is absurd.

Two things:

1) The idea is not absurd at all. Laroche is the better player. This is the opposite of absurd.

2) No reason to send Dewitt to Las Vegas right now. There is room for them both on the roster today. Matter of fact, this three game series with a DH would have been the perfect time to have them both in the game.

2008-05-18 07:02:02
385.   Dodger Jack
PhillDodger, I have seen at least one poster cite LaRoche's bloodlines as a factor in his favor. I don't grasp the logic of that.

Indian Jon, you say LaRoche is the better player. Based on what? The only important factor is performance in the big leagues.

Finally, unless we are willing platoon DeWitt and LaRoche at third, or send DeWitt to Las Vegas, or play LaRoche at second or left field, there is no need for LaRoche on the roster at this time. We simply do not play enough interleague games to justify bringing him up just to play DH.

Again, what is wrong with working him at second base?

Finally, PhillDodger, I have a hard time getting excited by somebody's OBP, especially when it is achieved at AAA. LaRoche hit .226 for the Dodgers last year but that poor showing is supposed to be overshadowed by a good OBP?

And, Marty, you're probably right. The Dodgers will probably put DeWitt on the bench when Nomar returns. That would be nearly as absurd as sending this .324 hitter to Las Vegas.

2008-05-18 07:30:41
386.   Indiana Jon
385 I base it on the fact that he has been the better player through every step in professional baseball. If you want to base judgement on a small sample size in the big leagues (111 PA Dewitt, 113 PA Laroche) then fine, but leave me out on that one. Based on that amount of PA, Dewitt is a better hitter than both Mike Schmidt and Alex Rodriguez. I can guarantee neither of those is true either. Laroche is better than those two also. Finally, I agree we shouldn't bring up Laroche just to be a limited DH. We should bring him up to play 3rd. There was no need to bring Maza up as a backup SS. We brought him up for insurance for Hu, who is perfectly healthy. At the same time, we had no backup 3B on the roster and we needed one. It was the wrong call. Dewitt might be a fine player someday, but right now he is just having the hot streak of his career and it's still questionable if he is hitting better than Laroche. At worst, Laroche should be called up to play 3rd against left handers and pinch hit. He would be our best bat off the bench and he has nothing left to benefit from in the minors.
2008-05-18 07:37:37
387.   Indiana Jon
386 Make that 119 PA for Dewitt.
2008-05-18 07:50:57
388.   Indiana Jon
Since I'm a little bored at work, I decided to look up minor league performance on these two.

Dewitt 2029 PA, .279/.333/.444, 115 doubles, 10 triples, 57 HR, 146 BB, 11 SB, 12 CS

Laroche 1981 PA, .295/.365/.525, 106 doubles, 3 triples, 94 HR, 36 SB, 19 CS

2008-05-18 08:04:35
389.   CodyS
Just thought it was interesting. Top two batting averages in the AL: Mark Grudzielanek and Milton Bradley.
2008-05-18 08:23:08
390.   berkowit28
388 LaRoche's BB?
2008-05-18 08:26:35
391.   Howard Fox
381 I am with you. Most people here have this infatuation with LaRoche, and his entitlement to be the third baseman. They quote statistics to prove he is "the man".

He hasn't hit when up here, he is no better defensively, and is injured more than he is healthy. Now some are pointing out that his AAA numbers are better than DeWitt's major league numbers.

More importantly, as you say, DeWitt has won the third base job at the major league level. He is playing solid third base, hitting clutch, and for average, and occasional power.

What has he done to lose his position and have it taken away?

2008-05-18 08:45:12
392.   Greg Brock
DeWitt's done a great job through 100 PA's. If he keeps it up, it will be a great story.

I'll bet my Kevin Maas rookie card that he won't.

2008-05-18 08:51:25
393.   Bob Hendley
We should be happy to have such a "problem" and we do need LaRoche on the roster. I don't think that it is useful to keep comparing the two. What I don't see is any movement by the organization to help make that happen. Neither is getting any playing time at 2nd base, which would be an obvious option. I, for one, wouldn't discount the Solution at 2nd. 3rd base should not be automatically his based on his hitting or the fact that they tried once him at 2nd base and "it didn't work". This kid has Gumption and would do whatever it takes to stay in the big, and may be more adaptable than LaRoche to make the move. That said, the one in a better position to more work at 2nd is LaRoche, as I would be opposed to sending the Solution down to get in work at 2nd base in AAA. Come on Ned, do something!
2008-05-18 08:53:14
394.   Howard Fox

But until then, he should be our third baseman, right?

And at what point does everyone believe he is for real? after 3 months? a year? 2? 5?

Is everyone here going to say "I told you so" when he has a couple of 0 fers? He has done that and come back better each time.

LaRoche stunk up the joint last September and he is entitled. Now someone is going to point out the OBP for him. But in the old days, that was called don't let the 8 hole batter beat you with the pitcher on deck.

2008-05-18 08:58:10
395.   Greg Brock
394 He's certainly earned the job.

And when his average dips to .280, send him down. Which should be after the NL has scouted him and pitched around.

In about a week.

2008-05-18 09:01:38
396.   Greg Brock
I just can't believe how many people hate Andy LaRoche.
2008-05-18 09:01:51
397.   Howard Fox that is funny...

as if we have a roster and farm system of guys hitting over .300

so by that standard, we need replacements ready for everyone except Martin and Furcal...

thanks, that was a good way to start off my day with a laugh...

2008-05-18 09:03:46
398.   Howard Fox

no one hates him at all, he has potential...but hundreds of guys have had potential over the years...thousands even...

we have someone doing it now...everyone wants to toss away what we have now for potential...

2008-05-18 09:07:46
399.   Greg Brock
397 Yup, wait until his average dips to .226, and he's gone 3 for 43. Keep playing him.

That's not funny, that's the Dodger way.

2008-05-18 09:09:40
400.   Howard Fox
399 won't happen, this kid is for real...

the Dodger way will be to trade him away to make room for LaRoche, and DeWitt to outperform him for someone else...

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-05-18 09:11:07
401.   Bob Hendley
399 - Actually, Marty in 383 reminds us all of the real Dodger way.
2008-05-18 09:11:59
402.   Howard Fox
what irritates everyone here most of all is that DeWitt is performing well despite all statistical calculations that indicate otherwise...

but as we used to say, that is why they play the game...

2008-05-18 09:11:59
403.   Greg Brock
400 I think the best thing to do is to wait. We'll talk about it after another couple hundred at bats. We're not going to agree anyway.

And then I'm going to rub it in your face until the end of time. As I expect you to do to me.

2008-05-18 09:14:42
404.   Howard Fox
you won't get any I told you so's from me...I just want the best playing, period...

LaRoche should be working out at 2B, Jones should be benched, Kershaw and McDonald should be given a shot up here...

there are a lot of problems with this team, moving out one of the 2 or 3 steady players is not what what should be doing...

2008-05-18 09:15:04
405.   Bob Hendley
403 - And I said that comparing the two wasn't very productive... This should be fun. Perhaps Bob can set up some sort of alert system. Let the face rubbing begin!
2008-05-18 09:16:48
406.   Jon Weisman
402 - I don't think there's a single person here who is irritated "that DeWitt is performing well despite all statistical calculations that indicate otherwise." I think people are happy to be proven wrong if it means the Dodgers do well. It's simply that some people still think that over the long haul, if DeWitt can do this well, then LaRoche, with the better overall track record, will do better. It's debatable - there are arguments for either side, but I don't think it's fair to suggest that people have a kind of petty desire to see DeWitt fail.

New post up top.

2008-05-18 09:18:09
407.   Disabled List
You guys are all wrong. The "Dodger Way" would be to trade LaRoche for a middle reliever or two.
2008-05-18 09:19:08
408.   Pedro Astacio
Would it be absurd to suggest that DeWitt has suddenly found it all? He does have lots of talent.
2008-05-18 09:20:58
409.   Pedro Astacio
All I know is that we would be well under .500 without DeWitt.
2008-05-18 09:21:52
410.   Howard Fox
406 I think many do wish to see DeWitt fail. Otherwise, they can't make sense out of what the "numbers" dictate should happen.
2008-05-18 09:23:35
411.   Howard Fox
As a rule, the statistical indications will bear themselves out. But sometimes they don't, and people have to flexible enough to accept that. Many here are not.
2008-05-18 09:26:30
412.   Jon Weisman
410 - I see no proof of that. We're all Dodger fans at heart, and we know that there are always surprises.

Ask Greg Brock if he wants to see DeWitt fail, or if he just expects him to? Big difference.

And like I said in 406, new post on top.

2008-05-18 09:53:48
413.   Dodger Jack
Yep, new post on top, Jon, but this discussion, with all due respect, is more compelling.

IndianaJon stated that LaRoche was better than A-Rod and Mike Schmidt and no poster said a word in retort! I think that demonstrates just how much LaRoche has been hyped.

It is just interesting to me, as it must also be to Howard Fox, the extent to which posters here elevate prospect ratings and minor league records. The only thing that counts, guys, in MLB performance. Lindsey and Tiffee are hitting like phenoms at Las Vegas. Yet I don't see anyone touting their stats -- for good reason.

I am a DeWitt partisan but I do not believe any of the posters wishes to see him fail. They just want to see their guy, LaRoche, at third. But the bottom line is that DeWitt has played and is delivering big; LaRoche couldn't deliver last year or during the last two spring training periods. That makes DeWitt the incumbent. LaRoche DOES have something to prove -- that he can remain injury free, hit dingers at Las Vegas, and smack the ball at least as well as the likes of Lindsey and Tiffee.

We all have our opinions, but it would be interesting to hear a learned assessment of each's potential ability to play second base.

One thing I am sure we can all agree on: It would be far better to have DeWitt and LaRoche BOTH in the lineup as opposed to Nomar and Kent.

2008-05-18 10:28:23
414.   Ranma
I'm in total agreement with Dodger Jack and Howard Fox on the DeWitt-LaRoche debate. I've never understood why Andy LaRoche has overwhelmingly been thought of as one of the Dodgers' top prospects, that is to say, in the same class as James Loney, Matt Kemp, and Andre Ethier. Clayton Kershaw's potential is on an entirely different level.

I'm not much of a sabermetrics fellow and usually defer my opinion over to the more knowledgeable experts who patron this wonderful site, but in the case of LaRoche, I've been trying to see the same thing as most of you are seeing in him and have yet to be infatuated with his potential. Granted there has not been many opportunities to view his performance for an extended period of time but it is disturbing to me how everyone is automatically anointing LaRoche as the heir-apparent at 3B when, to me at least, the respective performances of Blake and Andy haven't warranted such bestowment of title. This is especially disconcerting when the consensus critique of Dodgers management is playing the likes of Andruw Jones, Nomar Garciaparra, Juan Pierre, and Jeff Kent over the more well-deserving younger options the organization has.

I don't necessarily think that DeWitt has won the third base job yet because I'm still under the impression that he will eventually need to be sent down to the minors for further seasoning once major league pitchers figure him out and exploit his weakness(es)--the kid really does need to employ going the other way more often--but I would think that he should be more widely considered to be further along as a 3B prospect than LaRoche at this point, which for whatever reason is not reflected in the comments around these parts when discussing the performances of the two.

This sense of entitlement to third base was even cited as Andy LaRoche's downfall two Spring Training sessions ago when management felt that he didn't work hard enough to win the job. DeWitt has shown himself to be more than capable of handling the defensive rigors of the hot corner and...oh yeah, he just so happens to be leading all rookies in batting average and is tied for second on the team in homers.

During the last two televised broadcasts of the Freeway series, I've heard the announcing crew reference Hanley Ramirez and Don Mattingly when mentioning Blake DeWitt as examples of players who exceeded their minor league performance at the major league level. Now if the play-by-play teams for the Fox national broadcast and even the Angels can give DeWitt the benefit of the doubt, why can't the more devoted Dodger fans follow suit?

Eric Karros often recites the phrase that "a major leaguer is a minor leaguer with an opportunity" when he references Blake DeWitt and I feel that is an apt description of his success thus far. So I find it quite strange how most value LaRoche's potential over DeWitt's performance when Blake has made the most out of his opportunity (singular) while Andy has not with his opportunities (plural).

2008-05-18 10:35:34
415.   Dodger Jack
Hey, Jon, would you consider this hotly-debated issue (DeWitt vs. LaRoche) for examination in your next blog/post? Thanks.
2008-05-18 12:22:16
416.   Andrew Shimmin
I wish everybody I disagree with on the internet was a cartoon villain.
2008-05-18 13:28:14
417.   dzzrtRatt
374 Maybe my good mood was due to not feeling compelled to choose between DeWitt and LaRoche at this point in time.

DeWitt has earned the job. LaRoche is still a prime prospect, overdue for more time on the Dodgers. These are two thoughts one can retain in the same head.

Those who predict DeWitt will fade might be proven right in the fullness of time. But let's wait for that to happen before we yank DeWitt out of the lineup.

The fear I have expressed is this: Colletti might conclude, based on small sample size and a lot of press hype, that it is safe to trade LaRoche now to fill some short-term to decide the competition is over. That's not outside the realm of Colletti possibility, unfortunately.

But in the end, we should be perfectly open to the idea that either one of them will end up with the third base job long-term. We should also be perfectly open to the idea that they could both be in the lineup, but in different positions. That's how the "great infield of the 1970s" was built: Two third basemen, an outfielder and a second baseman.

2008-05-18 15:50:16
418.   Dodger Jack
Good post and great reminder: Garvey, Lopes, Cey, and Russell. I'd love to squeeze LaRoche and DeWitt into the same infield!

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