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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

October 7, 1977
2008-10-06 21:11
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Maybe Dodger manager Tom Lasorda is right. Maybe there really is a Big Dodger in the Sky.

What else can account for what went on in the nut house they call Veterans Stadium in South Philly Friday afternoon?

The Dodgers were dead. They were losing to the Phillies, 5-3, with two out in the ninth inning of the National League's World Series preliminary. Eight straight batters had grounded out off relief pitcher Gene Garber, who was making it look easy. A crowd of 63,719 was screaming for the Phillies and jeering the Dodgers.

That was the scene, as described by Times sports editor Bill Shirley, 31 years ago Tuesday.

In the third game of a five-game NL Championship Series that was split 1-1, the Dodgers had scored two runs in the second inning (losing a potential third run when Steve Yeager was thrown out trying to score on pitcher Burt Hooton's double). The Phillies came back to take a 3-2 lead in the bottom of the inning during one of the most famous meltdowns ever by a Dodger pitcher.

Wrote Shirley:

Hooton walked (Ted) Sizemore to fill the bases. Hooton thought he had the next bater, pitcher Larry Christenson, struck out on a 1-2 pitch, but umpire Harry Wendlestedt did not agree. He called it a ball, and Hooton stormed around the mound in disgust. Then he lost his cool and his rhythm. While the notorious Philadelphia fans screamed and taunted him, Hooton walked Christenson, Bake McBride and (Larry) Bowa in succession to force in three runs. The fans loved every minute of it.

Hooton was yanked in favor of Rick Rhoden after walking four straight batters on 21 pitches. With the bases still loaded, Rhoden got (Mike) Schmidt to foul out to catcher Steve Yeager - on one pitch.

Lasorda said he did not think the crowd affected Hooton. The pitcher did not stick around to explain but some of his teammates said they thought it was probably a combination of the crowd and and the call on the pitch to Christenson. It was not a professional performance for a major league pitcher.

The Dodgers weren't down for long, tying the game in the fourth on hits by Ron Cey and Dusty Baker (each of whom hit grand slams - the Dodgers' last in the playoffs for 31 years - in the previous two games). Once again, however, the Dodgers lost a chance for more. With the bases loaded and one out, Rhoden (who had three homers in 1977) hit a fly ball to right field, and McBride threw Baker out at the plate - rather easily, according to Shirley, despite Baker's attempt to jar the ball loose from catcher Bob Boone.

Rhoden pitched 4 1/3 shutout innings in relief, and the game remained tied until the eighth inning, when the deuces went wild for the Philles, who combined two hits with two Dodger errors to score two runs. Poised to win the game was Garber, who nearly six years later, would be the on the mound facing R.J. Reynolds in the next decade's most memorable regular season Dodger game.

Garber got the first two outs. Facing defeat, Lasorda sent up 41-year-old Vic Davalillo, who had been out of the major leagues for nearly three seasons before the Dodgers signed him out of the Mexican League as a free agent in July, to bat for Yeager. The oldest player in the majors, Davalillo was batting .313 with no homers and no walks, so the Phillies knew he wasn't a power threat.

What they didn't know is that he would bunt - a perfect bunt that he beat out for a single.

Davalillo was followed to the plate by Manny Mota, just a few months shy of 40 himself. "Between the two of them, Vic Davalillo and Manny Mota are old enough to be dead," wrote Charles Maher in the Times. Yet in 49 games, Mota was 15 for 38 with a homer, 10 walks and no strikeouts. (His OPS was 1.021.)

Mota hit a long flyball to left field. Deep - but not deep enough. Catchable - but not catchable enough for Greg Luzinski, who got turned around and bungled the ball against the left-field fence. Mota got a double, and when Sizemore let Luzinski's throw into the infield get away, Davalillo scored to cut the Dodgers' deficit to one. Mota landed at third.

Davey Lopes came up. Shirley:

Lopes smashed a ground ball at third baseman Mike Schmidt, who already had made several marvelous plays. But this time, it appeared the ball hit a seam in the artificial turf and bounced off his glove to shortstop Larry Bowa.

Bowa fired the ball to first, almost catching the speedy Lopes, but umpire Bruce Froemming called him safe. On instant replay, it appeared Lopes got at least a tie. Anyway, Mota had scored the tying run and the Phillies were screaming at Froemming.

It was a day for everyone to get flustered. With Bill Russell now at the plate, Garber threw the ball away trying to pick off Lopes, allowing the speedy leadoff man to reach second base. Russell, who would win the 1978 NL pennant for the Dodgers over Philadelphia with a series-ending single up the middle, presaged his feat by knocking a Garner pitch to center field to drive Lopes in with the go-ahead run.

In the bottom of the ninth, the Phillies would get their own two-out chance when reliever Mike Garman hit Lusinski with a pitch. But Richie Hebner grounded out to Steve Garvey at first base, and the Dodgers had come away with an absolutely stunning victory.

After the game, Times writer Don Merry's focus was on Phillies manager Danny Ozark.

While Dodger manager Tom Lasorda was center stage, attempting to explain the weird events of the ninth, Ozark leaned limply against a wall, periodically putting a hand to his face. Then he would stare at the ceiling as if he were asking the man above why him? ... why his team?

While Lasorda discussed his rapport with the heavens, Ozark was feeling like a man exiled to hell. ...

"I certainly won't forget about this one for a while," the manager admitted. "This is a time I think I can bite a six-penny nail in half."

The Dodgers wrapped up the NL pennant the next day, with Tommy John, who had won 20 games with a 2.78 ERA (138 ERA+) in his second season following the surgery that would bear his name, throwing a complete-game seven-hitter. But Game 3 remained the one etched most firmly in the memory of those who lived through that series.

Jim Murray of the Times deserves the final word.

The things that happened to the Phillies should only happen to Idi Amin. Manny Mota, who hit his first home run in (five) years the other day, thought he detected a trend. Normally, in this situation, Manny perceives his job to poke one through the hole into right field and keep the rally going. This one he wound up on as though it were the head of a guy trying to creep in his bedroom window.

I wish I could tell you what happened to that ball. I think Greg Luzinski tried to eat it. It hit the wall, hit his stomach. It ended up some place between first and second base with several Phillies running after it and Manny Mota creaking into third.

Right there God got fed up with the Philies. I mean, He and the Dodgers had done all they could for the home nine. I mean, when you part the waters and they just stand there - well, there's a limit. ...

L.A. had done its level best to gift-wrap the National League pennant and put it under the tree for the Phillies – "To Philadelphia With Love, from Burt, Billy and the Guys."

Never have more generous gestures been made than the Dodgers made for the Phillies. It was heart-warming, an act of selflessness and concern for your fellow man that allowed the Dodgers to walk in several runs, error in a few more. They were the most considerate guests you ever saw. They tried to come home from second standing up on shallow flies and short hits, they messed up double-play balls, they threw the ball in the dugout. You couldn't ask for nicer guys to come visit. They never thought of themselves once. They threw runs at the Phillies like bridal bouquets. The way they were going, you figured they wanted to be able to take this game off their income tax as a charitable deduction. Deducted: one National League pennant, worth, perhaps, $500,000 to a inning team.

The Phils, the ingrates, would not take it. The mink didn't fit right. The new Rolls was the wrong color. Nobody was going to make charity cases out of them, by God. They spurned the Dodgers' best efforts to make them rich. ...

That's how it ended. Dodgers 6, Phillies 5. Thursday, here they go again.

* * *

Back to the present: A commenter has hooked us up with Vin Scully's call of the ninth inning of Dodgers' National League Division Series-clinching victory Saturday, including "the one sweet, beautiful, marvelous" final out.

Meanwhile, Tony Jackson of the Daily News passes this along:

It does appear that the Dodgers' Game 4 starter will depend largely on whether Hong-Chih Kuo is healthy enough to be on the roster for this series. If he is, he'll be the second lefty in the pen and Clayton Kershaw probably will be the fourth starter. If Kuo isn't a go, Kershaw will likely have to be the second lefty in the pen, so Greg Maddux would get the nod in Game 4. Lefty relievers are vital in this series because the Phillies have so many dangerous lefties in their lineup, beginning and ending with N.L. MVP candidate Ryan Howard, who had a monster September.

Presumably, however, Derek Lowe remains a candidate to start Game 4 on three days' rest, which make sense, because thanks to off days, the Dodgers could follow with Chad Billingsley, Hiroki Kuroda and Lowe on regular rest if the final three games are needed.

Ken Gurnick of MLB.com, has more on Kuo.

With Kuo and that left elbow of his, the Dodgers never know for sure. In fact, the departure time for Tuesday's team flight was pushed back an hour so the club can first put Kuo through a morning simulated game as a final test before a roster is submitted Thursday.

Kuo, who has had four operations on his elbow, has pitched once in the past four weeks because of discomfort in his triceps area just above the elbow. He has said the area doesn't bother him throwing but tightens the following day. So even with the simulated game, club officials really won't know about Kuo until Wednesday's workout at Citizens Bank Park.

Nonetheless, Kuo and the club were relieved on Monday that the elbow felt fine after being put through his first bullpen session in three weeks on Sunday. Kuo said he threw hard off the mound and felt fine Monday.

"I'm ready," said Kuo.

* * *

Jackson reported that every NLCS game except Game 2 will start at 5 p.m. Pacific time.

Comments (170)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-06 21:22:54
1.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Done deal. I'm taking off of work on Friday to watch the game. Such an early start, sheesh.
2008-10-06 21:26:09
2.   John Hale
I had no idea of what it was like from the Philly perspective. I feel a little guilty of how much that series meant to me.
It was called "black friday"?

The Fall of the 1977 Phillies: How a Baseball Team's Collapse Sank a City's Spirit (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Fall-1977-Phillies-Baseball-Collapse/dp/0786432179

2008-10-06 21:33:39
3.   Bob Timmermann
At least Jerry Martin finally got into the game a pinch runner.
2008-10-06 21:37:50
4.   bhsportsguy
I was in my first year in high school though we were called sophomores. And it was a day game in Philly so the crucial moments came during lunch.

I listened to that game at school. I had to imagine the bunt, the fly ball that "The Bull" gored and then Russell's winning hit.

I didn't see the clincher either because I was out but I listened. It might have been the worst weather a game of that importance had been played in.

2008-10-06 21:39:30
5.   Gagne55
"Bruce Froemming"

Wow. He's been around a long time.

2008-10-06 21:44:02
6.   Bob Timmermann
Froemming retired after last season.

I listened to Game 3 during lunch at De La Salle Elementary School. I got home in time to see the 9th inning. Although I missed Russell's hit because I had to go to the bathroom.

2008-10-06 21:44:44
7.   waterboy100
1 sounds like a good idea
2008-10-06 21:45:18
8.   Robert Fiore
God, I can still see Greg Luzinski in my mind's eye, waving at that ball with his glove as it went over his head. My biggest thrill as a Dodger fan -- Manny was my favorite Dodger back then. And to think we used to be able to read Jim Murray the day after the game rather than Bill Plaschke. Enough to make you sick.

A couple of years ago Mota was with a trade group from the Dominican Republic that was visiting my office, and my boss didn't tell me about it until after they left. I could have killed him . . .

2008-10-06 21:46:24
9.   LAT
Jim Murray would be rolling over if he could see what has become of the LA Times Sports section. He was the best. I wish I was old enough to really appreciate the holy trilogy of Murray, Scully and Hern.
2008-10-06 21:51:41
10.   Gagne55
6 He did? I didn't realize that.
2008-10-06 21:51:57
11.   MollyKnight
Listening to Scully's call was a real treat. Thanks to Jon and the other patriots who made that happen.
2008-10-06 21:53:42
12.   bobsbrother
Ozark should have made a defensive replacement for Luzinski. The guy had no business being in the game at that point.

And did the Times spell his name with an "s", or was that an error in conversion?

2008-10-06 21:58:17
13.   DBrim
11 - Seconded.

I have a midterm on Friday morning. It'll be done in time to watch the game, but Thursday night might not be the most conducive environment for studying.

2008-10-06 22:00:10
14.   Jacob Burch
6 Was it a Trough?
2008-10-06 22:10:50
15.   Jimmyv11
11. I was not able to hear the recording for some reason it would only play 13 seconds of the beginning anyone help me out here?
2008-10-06 22:11:13
16.   Bob Timmermann
14
My parents used toilets at home.
2008-10-06 22:13:11
17.   Jacob Burch
16 I made this joke only half noting the poster was Bob. That is far too much dead-horse joke beating at Bob's expense. I apologize.

I have been in a house with a back-less toilet that resembled a personal trough of some kind. It was in the middle of nowhere, Indiana.

2008-10-06 22:15:04
18.   LAT
Isn't a back-less toilet in the middle of nowhere, Indiana really just a hole in the backyard?
2008-10-06 22:15:41
19.   LAT
Isn't a back-less toilet in the middle of nowhere, Indiana really just a hole in the backyard?
2008-10-06 22:15:42
20.   Bob Timmermann
12
Error in transcription.

It was a race against Ross Newhan!

2008-10-06 22:16:45
21.   LAT
Oops. It wasn't funny enough for one post never mind two.
2008-10-06 22:17:20
22.   Jacob Burch
18 There was metal or porcelain involved.

I was little and at a local barn concert. Journey was covered.

2008-10-06 22:18:15
23.   Jacob Burch
I like the name of "A Race Against Ross Newhan" for a book.
2008-10-06 22:21:08
24.   Tripon
http://rapidshare.com/files/151633741/Cubs_lose_to_Dodgers2008.mp3.html

I uploaded the file to a free hosting service to help the guy's bandwidth out.

2008-10-06 22:24:50
25.   LAT
Metal or porcelain involved.
A local barn concert.
Journey was covered.

Sounds a lot like Dodger Stadium last Sat. night. Ok, maybe not a barn concert but Journey was covered.

2008-10-06 22:33:19
26.   Jimmyv11
24. thank you very much, i was thinking at the end of this game i wonder what Vin is saying.
2008-10-06 22:41:31
27.   Tripon
Blue Jays claimed Dick Hayhurst from the Padres.
2008-10-06 22:52:26
28.   Eric Stephen
Two more days without baseball? I'm going to end up like one of the "Wake Up and Smile!" anchors after their teleprompter malfunctioned.
2008-10-06 23:03:11
29.   Tripon
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-furcal100608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Tim Brown writes a Furcal story.

2008-10-06 23:09:27
30.   Linkmeister
I was on Kwajalein for that NLCS. I got back the following March, so I saw the 1978 games.
2008-10-06 23:12:55
31.   Tripon
ESPN says the game won't start until 5:22, so there's going to be a lot of chatter before then.
2008-10-06 23:14:44
32.   Tripon
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/manny-looking-f.html

Scott Boras wants 5 years and 85 million for Manny.

2008-10-06 23:15:10
33.   LogikReader
One small note about the Vin clip linked above:

I noticed Vin didn't allow for some silence after Broxton's last out like he usually does. I think a big part of this is Vin doesn't think the Dodgers are done yet. It's one step to a larger goal. That's a good thing.

Imagine Daron Sutton trying to call a similar moment for the D'backs. He'd be all over the place... for winning an LDS. As great as it is, it's still just step one in the long playoff journey.

2008-10-06 23:16:37
34.   Linkmeister
Thanks to whomever found that clip, and to Jon for linking it, and to Tripon for uploading to a free service.
2008-10-07 00:01:59
35.   The Dude Abides
If that's what Boras wants, why not offer 3 yrs/$66m plus a player option for the fourth year at $19m? If Manny decides he wants to go somewhere else after three years for more money, then Lambo moves into our outfield.
2008-10-07 00:28:58
36.   ryu
13 Worse situation here. Game 1 on Thursday I will (or should) be studying for my midterm on Friday. Game 2 I'll be taking the midterm.

Sucks.

2008-10-07 00:50:12
37.   waterboy100
32 ive seen worse deals handed out...furcal and jones spring to mind
2008-10-07 00:50:23
38.   waterboy100
whoops. i mean pierre and jones
2008-10-07 01:19:07
39.   DBrim
38 - Furcal hasn't exactly been a shining star of a deal, either. Had he remained healthy, it would have been a different story, though, since he is certainly capable of living up to the money that was given to him (unlike the other two).
2008-10-07 03:27:57
40.   Benjamin Miracord
Please forgive me is this has been previously posted.

Terry Cashman ("Talkin' Baseball") has a new song about Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers: "Manny Being the Man."

Among other things, the New-York native sings, "Now you got all the kids believing it too." And I think we all know whom he's talking about.

http://tinyurl.com/46e2kb

From the New York Daily News.

2008-10-07 06:10:44
41.   ChicagoDodger
That was such a great memory. I started reliving that memory on Sunday after the Phillies had won, even reading up on it on Sunday. That game kept in my mind for many years to come the thought that "it's never over". If they could come back from that, they could come back from anything.

Dodgers beat the Phillies 3-1 the next year as well, so this really is like 70's all over again. Familiar foe. Familiar outcome? Let's hope!

5 years $85 million for Manny seems a bargain. I figured it would be at least $100 million for 4 years. But those are just rumors.

2008-10-07 06:38:44
42.   Ken Noe
32 41 And let the negotiations begin: Word, however, is that the Dodgers realize he doesn't fit their long-term needs. A defensive liability in a ballpark that puts an emphasis on defense doesn't compute over the long-term, and Ramirez is looking for a five-year deal.
2008-10-07 06:56:49
43.   JoeyP
In the AL, its two new-school Sabermetric teams in the ALCS: Boston & Tampa.
Epstein vs Friedman.

In the NL, its two old-school traditional teams in the NLCS: LA & Philly.
Colletti vs Gillick.

2008-10-07 06:59:43
44.   seesdifferent
imho it would be a big mistake to start Kershaw v. the Phillies, who lit him up previously. The kid is 20 years old, fcs.
2008-10-07 07:06:40
45.   regfairfield
43 I don't know if the Phillies count since their loaded with TTO hitters and play some quality defense.
2008-10-07 07:11:41
46.   seesdifferent
The Dodgers are paying Jones, Schmidt, Loiza, Garciaparra, Penny and Pierre way more than, for example, the entire Oakland A's roster. I'm sure they will make a smart decision on Manny.

I know, rule 7 violation.

2008-10-07 07:25:24
47.   Jon Weisman
Yeager sues:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sports/story.html?id=6ea93988-517f-4efe-bf7b-5e072ba4c5d3

2008-10-07 07:31:22
48.   JoeyP
45- I was more talking about just GMs.
Gillick has been around forever.

Their offense does look really OPS'y.
Howard, Utley, Burrell, Werth can all bash the ball.

Victorino & Rollins arent bad either for their positions. And Rollins was MVP last season.
Dobbs/Feliz is a decent platoon at 3b.

From the pitching side though, I doubt many GMs would have traded for Joe Blanton to pitch in the Phillies park.

2008-10-07 07:59:23
49.   cargill06
The 1:35 start on Friday makes no sense. They are neglecting one side of the country. If you start the Bos @ TB at 2 PM PST/ 5 EST that a large majority of that market can see the game, than you start the LA @ Phi game at 515 PST/ 815 EST and most of both markets can see both games. It is a Friday night so a late finish on the east coast shouldn't be a problem.

I'm sure baseball has marketing guys that are much smarter than I, what could their reasoning be for not doing that?

2008-10-07 08:05:12
50.   Bob Hendley
30 - I actually know where that is. Never been there, but have been to Johnston Is. and to the Marshalls.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-07 08:06:12
51.   Bob Timmermann
There are two different networks showing the LCS. They didn't want to have a conflict this year because, presumably, the past times when there were conflicts ended up hurting both networks.

The Rays-Sox game pretty much has to be in prime time since it's going to be the more popular series.

2008-10-07 08:08:26
52.   Bob Timmermann
The ALCS has two day games. Game 3 would be Monday at 1:37 pm PT so it doesn't conflict with Monday Night Football. Game 6 would start at the same time, although it would move to a night start if the NLCS doesn't go to a Game 7.
2008-10-07 08:17:00
53.   cargill06
Watching Jon Lester last night, all I could do was think about Kershaw and drool. Lester walked more people per 9 last year at 23 than Kershaw did this year at 20. Kershaw also misses more bats than Lester does, if Clayton can refine his control much like Lester did this year... :-)
2008-10-07 08:45:59
54.   Johnny Nucleo
Now that the Dodgers have advanced and the Angels have been eliminated, I'm a little confused.

Is the Angel Way still the Dodgers Way, or is the Dodgers Way now the Angel Way? Or are the Dodgers back to playing baseball the Dodger Way?

Could someome please explain?

2008-10-07 08:48:10
55.   Marty
I remember the Tommy John rain-storm game more than the Davalillo game for some reason. That game was when I learned they will do anything to get a post-season game in.
2008-10-07 08:49:37
56.   capdodger
54 Bill Plaschke will be stopping by your house shortly to explain everything to you.
2008-10-07 08:55:01
57.   Bumsrap
54 - If it isn't obvious, maybe, maybe, it is a combination of both
2008-10-07 08:58:07
58.   underdog
On ESPN's First Take, Skip Bayless just revealed himself to seriously loathe the Dodgers and Manny. When asked who they want to seein the World Series, he said he wants Dodgers-Red Sox, so the Red Sox can sweep LA and humiliate them and Manny goes 0 for 16. Then he said he doesn't even think they'll beat the Phillies anyway. The other two guys predicted Dodgers-Red Sox, too, but aren't rooting against the Dodgers if that were the case.

If anyone cares. Not sure why anyone would care what Skip Bayless says.

2008-10-07 09:01:06
59.   Branch Rickey
47 Maybe they ran out of money paying for all of the words in that title.
2008-10-07 09:02:30
60.   FirstMohican
Woah weird: last night I re-watched The Last King of Scotland.
2008-10-07 09:04:32
61.   LogikReader
58

I won't completely dis' Skip Bayless. He's wrong about almost everything. By the way, that is a really ridiculous reason to "loathe the Dodgers."

Anyway, Skip Bayless, as I recall, predicted LAKER DOMINATION going into the Finals this summer. We all know how that turned out.

2008-10-07 09:06:18
62.   Disabled List
Unfortunately, it looks like I won't be able to attend the games down in Philly this week. The Dodgers will be playing playoff games 90 minutes away from me, and I'll be watching them on TV, as usual.

Stupid work.

2008-10-07 09:09:58
63.   Tripon
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/

BP has the latest WS odds.

Red Sox: 32.8%
Rays: 27.9%
Dodgers: 20.2%
Phillies: 19.1%

2008-10-07 09:11:14
64.   Tripon
Isn't Skip Bayless from Chicago? He might still be hurt that his two teams are now out of the playoffs.
2008-10-07 09:11:44
65.   Jim Hitchcock
What a difference a week makes.

I put $20.00 down for the Cubs series, and got back $58.00.

Put that $58.00 down for the Phillies series, and got even money.

2008-10-07 09:12:03
66.   underdog
61 Indeed, so I'm certainly not worried about it. He definitely jinxed the Lakers. Even I knew he was wrong when he was predicting Lakers domination. I sometimes wonder about some of the panelists ESPN gets on their shows. How does Woody Paige get to be an "expert"?
2008-10-07 09:18:53
67.   oshea2002
61 - Skip picked them to lose to Denver. He also picked them to lose to SA. I'm not sure on Utah. Skip hates the Dodgers, Lakers, and USC, and conversely, I hate him. The only team of mine he doesn't hate is Al and the Raiders, which is even more ridiculous. He still regards Al as the smartest man in the NFL.
2008-10-07 09:29:38
68.   Ken Noe
The ultimate symbol of how far ESPN has fallen is:
(a) Skip Bayless
(b) Jay Mariotti
(c) Kenny Mayne
(d) Stuart Scott
2008-10-07 09:34:18
69.   Ken Noe
Engaged? Don't invite Brandon Backe to your wedding.
http://tinyurl.com/4hzcnr
2008-10-07 09:36:25
70.   Kuo-fax
44 - Seems to me that Kershaw learns more with every start. I'd like to see how he adjusts to Philly this time. How bad was he last time?

Besides, I think we are that much better as a team with Kuo in the pen, Kershaw as the 4th starter, with Maddux and Park, safely on the bench, there to come in if he is too wild.

Just my 2 cents.

2008-10-07 09:54:13
71.   Kevin Lewis
32

I was expecting 4 yr/100 million. So, do you sign him for 5 expecting a good 3 years and then a platoon for the last 2?

The total isn't bad, but the time is what worries me.

2008-10-07 10:11:49
72.   Daniel Zappala
Humbug points to Zack Hample -- pretty amazing story:

http://snaggingbaseballs.mlblogs.com/

2008-10-07 10:12:29
73.   Kevin Lewis
Are there any other FA pitchers we will be looking at next season?
2008-10-07 10:19:10
74.   wronghanded
Scott Miller at CBS Sportsline has a fair assessment of the NLCS matchup:

Nobody is playing better than the Dodgers right now. If Philadelphia is to win this series, the Phillies must get the 'A' game out of starters Brett Myers, whose temperament is unpredictable, and Jamie Moyer, whose breaking pitches can be unpredictable. Moyer and lefty Cole Hamels both will be big in attempting to neutralize Dodgers lefties Andre Ethier and James Loney, who have matured more as hitters in the past six weeks than they had in the previous six months. Part of that is the presence of Manny Ramirez in the No. 3 hole -- he's changed this lineup more than any single hitter has with any other team. Both teams will be well rested to start, which should make for an entertaining series. Derek Lowe in Game 1 could set the tone for L.A. because his sinker, which results in ground balls, is tailor made for a home run haven like Citizens Bank Park. Chad Billingsley is the best pitcher nobody knows about. Hiroki Kuroda is coming off of a lights-out outing against the Cubs. That's why Philadelphia's staff must step up: The Dodgers led the NL in ERA this summer (Philadelphia was fourth). Los Angeles ranked 13th in the NL in runs scored, home runs and slugging percentage (the Phillies were second, first and second), but so much of that was compiled before Ramirez and Casey Blake joined the team. Dodgers reliever Jonathan Broxton will be key in this series as well, because manager Joe Torre still appears to distrust Takashi Saito, who was the closer before getting hurt. Ryan Howard vs. Ramirez is a heavyweight battle of the titans. Rock 'em, sock 'em. It's a throwback series -- these two clubs dueled in the NLCS in both 1977 and 1978 (the Dodgers won both in four games, back when the LCS was a best-of-5 format).

2008-10-07 10:21:37
75.   Eric Stephen
The Wrong Stuff

I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't know Steve Yeager was the nephew of Chuck Yeager.

If the former Dodger catcher had an autobiography, I would like to read it:

1) nephew of Chuck Yeager
2) inventor of neck guard
3) 3B coach in Major League

2008-10-07 10:25:37
76.   Fish
Anyone just catch this one by Olney?

"Josh (AZ): Hey Buster! Earlier you said you would take Joe Mauer if you were starting a team. I am intersted to know which pitcher you would take for your pitching staff?

Buster Olney: (1:18 PM ET ) Josh: Depends on what you were looking for -- a team that could win now, or a team that you were building. If it were a team that would win now, I'd go with Halladay or Sabathia or Santana. For a team that would win long-term, I might go Jon Lester, who just keeps getting better and better and better, or Chad Billingsley."

2008-10-07 10:28:15
77.   Branch Rickey
A defensive liability in a ballpark that puts an emphasis on defense doesn't compute over the long-term
So much about this article is ridiculous. First, how is it that Manny does so much to make this team a winner over two months but that won't play out over the "long term"?
Also, Manny isn't getting five years. The fact that Boras gave that number to a writer in October has as little to do with what will actually happen as our speculation. The fact that he said $85M (if he in fact said any of this) and not $120M is encouraging. I'm sure Borirez would rather take less years, money being equal because, who wouldn't? So if 5/85 is his opening shot... 3 to 4 at 75 is realistic and that's what I'd guess we could/should pay him.
2008-10-07 10:29:01
78.   Jacob L
75 I don't want to spend any more time gushing about Yeager. Check the "Cardboard Gods" archive for a pretty fun discussion.
2008-10-07 10:35:05
79.   Alex41592
Eric Neel story on Furcal is on the homepage of ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=neel_eric&id=3630320

2008-10-07 10:36:31
80.   Humma Kavula
Interesting question upthread: does Manny Ramirez fit the long-term needs of the Dodgers? The reasons he might not are cited: he's in his late thirties and his defense is very, very suspect.

But are those reasons unique to the Dodgers? I don't want to get into a fight about whether Manny's defense will outweigh his offensive production -- though I realize that this is probably the biggest question to answer. No, my question is, assuming that it makes sense for ANY team to sign Manny to an $85/5 deal, is there any reason that the Dodgers, in specific, should avoid him?

It seems to me that the biggest reason not to go after Manny is if there is someone in the system who can provide a large fraction of his production (offense + defense) at a tiny fraction of the cost.

Right now, there's no one who's ready to step up and do that, I think -- others will correct me if I'm wrong. If the Dodgers don't sign Ramirez (or anyone else), his replacement will be Young or Pierre.

Of course, the Dodgers do have a top OF prospect in the system. Lambo. But he's years away, isn't he? Do the other OF propects in the system (Paul) have a chance of approaching Manny's production?

Looking at it this way, it would seem to me that Manny at $85/5 would be quite all right. Just as his production starts to fade, Lambo is there to fill in the gaps. The transition won't be smooth or easy, it's true, but we can live with it, can't we?

I feel like I'm missing something. I'm sure someone will point it out to me.

2008-10-07 10:38:57
81.   Jim Hitchcock
75 It would have to be better than Chuck Yeager's autobiography.
2008-10-07 10:41:07
82.   Daniel Zappala
Another date for Andrew:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3630879

2008-10-07 10:45:12
83.   Bumsrap
I can see Manny as an Angel and CC as a Dodger because Manny is so DH and CC is so, well, clean up hitter like. Besides, I don't want to block Lambo.
2008-10-07 10:47:40
84.   Humma Kavula
83 Well, that's my question. Does signing Manny block Lambo? What is a reasonable projection for his arrival in L.A.?

And what are the Dodgers going to do until then? Somebody has to play left field. I don't want Pierre doing that every day -- I've had enough, and I think the Dodgers agree. I doubt that the Dodgers see Young as the answer, whether or not he could handle the duties. That means somebody off the free agent market. Who?

2008-10-07 10:48:01
85.   herchyzer
Off the top of my head I think 5 years, $85 million is not such a bad deal for Manny. Shoot, I was willing to offer 3 years, $75 million.
2008-10-07 10:49:08
86.   Eric Stephen
82
One of the greater quotes ever, from Luke Walton:

"She was in my driveway. But when we were interacting, I could tell by the stuff she was saying that she's not all there in the head -- which makes me feel bad for her. At the same time, most people who go on killing sprees are people who aren't all there in the head."

2008-10-07 10:54:47
87.   njr
Bob-- Do you have a brother in Cherry Hill NJ? I'm about to buy Phillies tix from a Timmerman on ebay.
2008-10-07 10:54:53
88.   Humma Kavula
84 Actually, I forgot about somebody.

Whither Andruw Jones?

2008-10-07 11:00:06
89.   Daniel Zappala
Andruw Jones makes life really difficult for the Dodgers. Who knows if he can ever regain his previous form? (That can intentionally be taken two ways.) If they could count on him, they could play Ethier-Jones-Kemp and allocate the Manny money differently. I suspect the Dodgers will sign Manny and count Jones as a lost cause.
2008-10-07 11:02:06
90.   Jim Hitchcock
I think you mean wither Andruw Jones :)
2008-10-07 11:03:25
91.   Jim Hitchcock
87 Bob spells his name Timmerman*n*.
2008-10-07 11:06:12
92.   bonnie
If anyone hasn't gotten tickets to the NLCS, ticketmaster has just released some more on the Dodger website.
2008-10-07 11:07:21
93.   Dodger Tony
It appears that NLCS game one begins at 4:00PM EST Thursday. Has anyone decided what to do about Yom Kippur? Jon? It starts Wednesday at 6:27PM pst and does not end, technically, until 7:04pm pst Thursday (or as Ross Porter would say "Se'm O Four"). I guess I could DVR/Tivo the game, but I have a "no Tivo" rule for the playoffs.

Would it be acceptable to begin the fast at 6:27PM EASTERN time Wednesday (3:27PM pst), and end it at 7:04 EST (4:04PM pst) Thursday? Of course sundown would not have officially come yet.

Is there a Rabbi in the house?

2008-10-07 11:09:15
94.   Ken Noe
Since Jones and Manny are both Boras clients, I suspect that the team will be very kind to Jones. I also expect McCourt to sign Manny, perhaps with a backload and perhaps with a Drew clause. Jones and Schmidt remain his albatrosses for only one more year. If that pans out, though, don't expect to see Lowe or Furcal back.
2008-10-07 11:09:53
95.   Eric Stephen
93
First pitch for game 1 is scheduled for 8:22pm EST Thursday.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/ps.jsp

2008-10-07 11:10:07
96.   Ken Noe
93 WW32D?
2008-10-07 11:10:23
97.   Jon Weisman
75 - I've been told that technically, Yeager isn't really his nephew - more like a cousin once removed or something like that. But if you don't want to sweat the details, I won't mind.
2008-10-07 11:12:41
98.   ishXdavid
"Between the two of them, Vic Davalillo and Manny Mota are old enough to be dead,"

HILARIOUS

2008-10-07 11:14:42
99.   twerp
Don't know if this has been mentioned. From dodgers.com a while back===

"The Dodgers sold out all three games last weekend against the Giants. They've averaged 49,060 fans since the Ramirez trade, after drawing 44,735 in 56 contests before he arrived."

That's an average of 4325 more fans per game. Don't know what the average DS ticket price is, but project it times 4325 times 81 or more games (playoffs, maybe) times three years or so. Then add in however many bobbleheads and jerseys and other Manny stuff the Dodgers would sell. The value of the franchise would increase, and TV probably would televise the Dodgers more just because of Manny, whatever tangible or intangible benefits that might bring.

See Frank drool. See Frank get out the checkbook. See Frank agree to pay almost any price for Manny.

Somehow I don't think any defensive liabilities are going to matter. Did they in Boston?

Beyond tons of enhanced revenue by re-signing Manny even at some staggering price, in a city where star power rules, Manny pretty much has become the face of the revitalized Dodgers. And I get the impression the Dodgers are now the hot baseball item instead of the Angels, tho that judgment is from 2000 miles away. This matters greatly to Frank.

Many, many Dodger fans just won't understand if Manny isn't re-signed, whatever the cost. How he might play at the backend of his next contract wouldn't even be on the radar screen of most fans with their win-now focus.

They'd say things like you paid $18 mil per year for Andruw Jones but got basically nothing, more millions for Schmidt and also got basically nothing. Yet now the Dodgers can't pop to re-sign one of the very best players in the game?

IMO, the Dodgers have a PR nightmare on their hands if they don't re-sign him.

Manny at the end of his next contract will be an interesting case. You'd think there'd be considerable falloff. For mere mortal players, there almost certainly would be. With this guy, who knows?

2008-10-07 11:14:45
100.   Eric Stephen
93
If there is a conflict, I think you just have to suck it up and temporarily suspend your "no Tivo" rule. That's the easiest solution, provided you are not surrounded by potential score saboteurs.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-10-07 11:17:27
101.   Ken Noe
Farewell Corey Patterson. Walt, Ned. Dusty, Juan.
http://tinyurl.com/4c9of5
2008-10-07 11:19:44
102.   underdog
I agree with Eric. I'd break the "no-Tivo" rule for this one, that way you can see it that evening at least without breaking Rabbinical rules.

Of course, I'm a very lapsed Jew so what do I know? (I do know a Rabbi though if you want a more expert opinion.)

2008-10-07 11:20:33
103.   ToyCannon
We have all winter to worry about Manny. Right now the big question is Kuo and if he can be effective. If Kuo can pitch like he did until he got hurt I think his presence tilts the advantage the Dodgers way. At some point we will need to get Utley and Howard out in the late innings and Kuo has shown that LHH are helpless against him.
Without Kuo I think the Phillies have the advantage. Kershaw could be that guy, he certainly has the stuff, will he have the command?
2008-10-07 11:20:51
104.   underdog
101 Oh man, that'd be almost too perfect. As soon as the post-season is over, Colletti needs to get on the hotline to Cincy.
2008-10-07 11:22:18
105.   Eric Stephen
99
The Dodgers were also in a pennant race, so that may have had something to do with the attendance too.
2008-10-07 11:27:46
106.   Ken Noe
93 102 My great-grandfather was a rabbi. He didn't approve of his son marrying a Baptist, so he might not support TiVo either. But better that than the alternatives.
2008-10-07 11:33:18
107.   MC Safety
Has Elbert been completely ruled out of the NLCS?
2008-10-07 11:33:53
108.   Jacob L
My father was a rabbi, and an equally devout Cub fan. We'd get little sympathy from him. In fact, he'd probably recall that after a hard day of fasting and preaching in 1984, he settled down with corned beef sandwich at the break-the-fast only to watch Steve Garvey (of all people) homer off of Lee Smith. To that point in my life, I'd never seen him so deflated.

More to the point, my suggestion would be to ask your rabbi to rush the closing prayers. My interpretation has always been that Yom Kippur ends when the service is over, rather than strictly at sun-down. I'm sure the rabbi where I'll be (in San Pedro) has already been approached on this subject. He's a Red Sox fan.

2008-10-07 11:34:26
109.   Harold M Johnson
103 Agreed. So far, our luck has been incredible with Furcal coming back. If Kuo can pitch, that would be major Baseball Gods smiling on the Dodgers. Is it too much to wish for?
2008-10-07 11:37:34
110.   Eric Stephen
103
I agree with this sentiment as well. I am guilty of looking to the future as much as anyone, but right now the only thing to be concerned about regarding Manny's pay is how large his playoff share will be.
2008-10-07 11:37:48
111.   cargill06
103 Kuo's split's
vs. LHH- .202/.216/.340- .556
vs. RHH- .205/.284/.285- .569

Let's just be honest, all hitters are helpless against him.

2008-10-07 11:41:46
112.   cargill06
111 Follow up;

Right handed hitters K 23.1% of their PA's against Kuo.

Left handed hitters K 44.9% of their PA's against Kuo.

2008-10-07 11:43:58
113.   Eric Stephen
111
Wow, I didn't realize his numbers were also so good against RHB.

However, the dominance against LHB is shown with this:

vs. RHB: 225 PA, 19 BB, 52 K, .272 BABIP
vs. LHB: 98 PA, 2 BB, 44 K, .333 BABIP

2008-10-07 11:43:58
114.   Jon Weisman
NSFDT, but the latest Yankee Stadium memory at Bronx Banter is quite funny:

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1153825.html

2008-10-07 11:53:17
115.   dkminnick
83 85 - I am perfectly happy with Manny blocking Lambo. I'm okay with him blocking anybody at all. Especially at this (sort of) reasonable price. It's such an unBoras-like demand, though, that I have my doubts it's actually true.
2008-10-07 11:54:29
116.   Lexinthedena
How many years away is Lambo?
2008-10-07 12:00:44
117.   ToyCannon
113
For a guy who previously showed precious little command that 44/2 has been eye popping this season.
2008-10-07 12:00:56
118.   Daniel Zappala
93 This may border on heresy, but you could always miss the Dodger game. Be devout, follow your religion, and then read DT and the box score later.
2008-10-07 12:00:58
119.   Branch Rickey
Despite my post, I agree that it's time to look at now and not the offseason moves. But there's so little chatter, it's just fun to talk anything Dodgers right now.
2008-10-07 12:01:29
120.   Eric Stephen
Highest Game Scores of Division Series Round
1) Hamels 1 86
2) Lester 4 71
3) Lester 1 69
4t) Billingsley 2 66
4t) Myers 2 66
6) Blanton 4 65
7) Kuroda 3 63
8) Lackey 1 60
9) Sonnanstine 4 58
10) Bush 3 57
11) Lowe 1 55
12) Lackey 4 55
13) Shields 1 52
14) Danks 3 52

Heck of a round for Lester. But, I see a lot of Dodgers and Phillies too.

2008-10-07 12:04:24
121.   DBrim
120 - Lowe was one fluke away from being much higher on the list.
2008-10-07 12:06:15
122.   Kevin Lewis
118

I was rewarded with a sweep by skipping the game on Saturday for the wife's reunion

2008-10-07 12:12:07
123.   RL BURNSIDE
Just listened to Vin's call... Throughout all the excitement/nervousness of Saturdays final inning, I forgot how dominating Brox was, and remembering that while watching the game, you could see it in Broxton's eyes, his focus and intensity was amazing, if I was Torre I'd have a hard time not calling on Broxton for the next save situation. This might have been discussed but is Joe sticking with Takashi for the 9th?
2008-10-07 12:14:18
124.   Eric Stephen
I'm sure a lot of you have seen this, but I loved the picture in today's Times of The Infield™, which was in the article about past Dodgers/Phillies playoff matchups.

http://tinyurl.com/4n9lok

2008-10-07 12:16:13
125.   Eric Stephen
123
I think Saturday was an issue of sticking with the hot hand, especially since Broxton only threw 6 pitches in the 8th.
2008-10-07 12:17:41
126.   bhsportsguy
Right now, the best location for Sunday's game available for two seats together on Ticketmaster in Reserved Level, Section 48, Row T.
2008-10-07 12:20:05
127.   bhsportsguy
118 Sundown in Los Angeles on Thursday is at 6:26 p.m. PDT.
2008-10-07 12:21:59
128.   Lexinthedena
Broxton's slider in game 3 was the best I have ever seen it.
2008-10-07 12:31:05
129.   Eric Stephen
Gurnick's fluff piece on Colletti starts with this line:

The deeper the Dodgers go into this postseason, the greater the angst for the critics of Ned Colletti.

Outside of misery lovers (you know who you are), who could possibly have angst as the Dodgers advance in the postseason? I just think that's too contentious a way to begin an article.

2008-10-07 12:35:14
130.   Lexinthedena
129 Then it must be directed at the misery eaters.
2008-10-07 12:38:34
131.   Daniel Zappala
I just measured my angst and it came in at exactly 1 ångström.
2008-10-07 12:39:47
132.   RL BURNSIDE
Another note on the bullpen, I think its likely that we see a situation such as Saturday nights in this series, with all the lefthanded bats for the Phillies, a combination of Beimel/Broxton could be used in the 8th, with the possibility of Broxton closing the 8th with few pitches and a hot hand. guess we'll see.
2008-10-07 12:41:04
133.   bhsportsguy
129 Well, there is that Steve Lavin theory that I am reminded of, everytime he made the Sweet Sixteen, it made the argument for firing him more difficult.

Questions for regfairfield:

1. The Angels had 16 more third-order wins than their stats projected, so should their demise be that much of a surprise.

2. The Dodgers and Phillies are much closer (the Dodgers have a better third-order record) but my only question is that the bulk of the Dodger success is based on their ability to limit runs scored vs. the Phillies record of scoring runs. So really, does this series come down to Dodger pitching and Philly hitting and which one has the better series?

2008-10-07 12:41:23
134.   Eric Stephen
Since the divisional round began in 1995, this is the third year the teams with the best record in each league have both lost in round 1:

2008: Angels (100-62) & Cubs (97-64)
2002: Athletics (103-59) & Braves (101-59)
2000: White Sox (95-67) & Giants (97-65)

2008-10-07 12:46:20
135.   Eric Stephen
133
I think the Philly pitching is a big factor as well. This isn't the end-all, be-all stat, but the Phillies' ERA+ was pretty good too:

MLB ERA+
1) Blue Jays 124
2) Dodgers 120
3) Cubs 117
4) Philly 115

I'm very concerned about that side of the matchup (Philly pitching v. Dodger hitting).

2008-10-07 12:49:34
136.   bhsportsguy
135 The hard part for me is that this lineup has only played 3 games together so far.
2008-10-07 12:50:35
137.   Eric Stephen
136
I like to think of it as The Undefeated Lineup. :)
2008-10-07 12:55:01
138.   Bumsrap
Speaking from ignorance, can't one ask a neighbor to come over and program one's Tivo or does everything have to be unplugged, turned off, and draped with with a sheet?
2008-10-07 12:57:35
139.   Eric Stephen
I found this via Awful Announcing:

"And, baseball fans, all the Frank [Caliendo] fun continues during the World Series on FOX, when he joins five other celebs - along with the animated Stewie from "Family Guy" - as part of the MLB's "There's Only One October" campaign."

Whither, Spanish?

2008-10-07 12:58:30
140.   Jacob L
Also apropos of our (seemingly annual) discussion on Yom Kippur, I wonder if Kevin Youkilis had any extra motivation to avoid a game 5?
2008-10-07 12:58:59
141.   Bob Timmermann
138
A lot of this varies depending upon how devout someone is.

I was reminded of this when I was driving by LACMA on a Saturday afternoon and many local Jews were headed to their temples and some were crossing at streets with a traffic signal, but some would only cross at a crosswalk without a signal because they didn't want to do anything construed as work.

2008-10-07 12:59:55
142.   bhsportsguy
138 I really think that misses the point of the whole thing. But I am a bystander in this discussion.
2008-10-07 13:02:31
143.   trainwreck
139
This is all a sinister plot to make me miss Scooter.
2008-10-07 13:06:13
144.   Jacob L
Under any definition of devoutness, I think you could program the dvr in advance of Yom Kippur. I've never been orthodox, but I don't see a problem there. I have to admit, though, that I like the idea of a Tivo Goy.

Thought I'd also pass along that I went to high holiday services up north during the Bay Area series in 89 (might have been the playoffs, but regardless, both local teams were involved). Many members of the congregation were spotted "getting something from the car" at irregular intervals.

2008-10-07 13:11:31
145.   regfairfield
There's a lot of reasons. Boston was a better secret sauce team since they have more power pitching, and way better defense, the Angels did over play their third order by a ton, and even the most seemingly lopsided series is still just like a 60/40 chance.

Anything can happen in five games.

2008-10-07 13:12:26
146.   das411
43 , since when is having the third highest payroll in baseball "New-school sabermetric"?

74 , can you explain something?

"The Dodgers led the NL in ERA this summer (Philadelphia was fourth). Los Angeles ranked 13th in the NL in runs scored, home runs and slugging percentage (the Phillies were second, first and second)" ... so if the Phillies have the league's best offense and fourth best ERA, and the Dodgers have the league's best ERA and thirteenth best offense, why is it that the Phillies pitchers are the ones who will have to step up? They're going up against the weaker offense, even since it has been Manny-powered, no?

2008-10-07 13:29:28
147.   Jon Weisman
Kuo throws painless simulated inning

http://tinyurl.com/4bbbn9

2008-10-07 13:34:14
148.   Eric Stephen
146
Since August 1, the Dodgers ranked among the NL:

2nd in BA (StL)
1st in OBP
2nd in SLG (StL)
2nd in OPS (StL)
7th in runs/game

2008-10-07 13:36:42
149.   Bob Timmermann
147
So he was simulating not having pain? ;-)
2008-10-07 13:38:10
150.   underdog
146 Yeah I think 148 points to what they mean, it's who the Dodgers are NOW as opposed to earlier this season. However, it should definitely be pointed out if it wasn't there that the Dodgers' pitchers also clearly have their work cut out for them as well, given the Phillies line-up. So that's true.

And speaking of which... good news about Kuo. I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-10-07 13:39:25
151.   trainwreck
Now Notre Dame steals Shaq Evans from USC.

From UCLA lean to USC commit then to ND commmit.

I guess Evans wants to be on my obelisk.

2008-10-07 13:39:34
152.   ToyCannon
146
Because Myers is Myers and Moyer is Moyer. The M&M boys need to step up if the the Phillies are going to extend their season. Myers was a hit away from getting routed in the 1st inning against the Brewers. Luckily for him Cory Hart handed him an escape route. Given his two performances before that appearance he is still a wildcard. Moyer's stuff doesn't usually play well in the playoffs.
You follow both teams who do you think has more to prove (Lowe, Chad, Kuroda) or (Hamels,Myers, Moyer)?
2008-10-07 13:39:59
153.   trainwreck
We need Kuo, mostly so there is no chance Maddux starts.
2008-10-07 13:41:46
154.   bhsportsguy
146 1/3 of a season is a small sample but its only one that is somewhat useful in measuring the lineup that the Dodgers will have in the NLCS.

With Manny, Blake, et. al, the Dodgers in their last 54 games went .281/.358/.443 and averaged 4.6 runs, almost a half a run higher than what they did for the first 2/3 of the season.

The Phillies had a horrible August and then picked it back up in September, they scored 3 runs more than the Dodgers in those two months but their average runs for the season was 4.9.

If you have not watched the Dodgers for the whole year, its hard to understand how bad their offense was after Furcal went out.

2008-10-07 13:43:19
155.   bhsportsguy
154 And if you have watched them all year, its still hard to fathom how they got here.
2008-10-07 13:44:16
156.   bhsportsguy
153 I still think that unless the Dodgers are up 3-0, Lowe will pitch game 4 only because I think Torre will feel more comfortable with the season on the line if Lowe starts game 7.
2008-10-07 13:49:02
157.   Eric Stephen
This offense can be broken into segments:

MVP Furcal: Mar 31 - May 5
Dead Zone: May 6 - July 31
MVP Manny: Aug 1 - Sep 28

During the "dead zone", the Dodger offense hit .244/.303/.359, and averaged 3.66 runs/game over 76 games (36-40 record).

During the "functioning offense" periods, the Dodgers hit .282/.358/.433, and averaged 4.91 runs/game over 86 games (48-38 record).

2008-10-07 13:49:14
158.   oshea2002
151 - that's far from a done deal. I think distance will still be a factor at some point.
2008-10-07 13:49:55
159.   trainwreck
156
Probably, but just in case.
2008-10-07 13:54:11
160.   Bumsrap
Martin is going to be one well rested dude and ready to be first-half-like for the remaining games. I think Loney will be benefiting from the days off the Dodgers have had since the end of the regular season as well.
2008-10-07 13:56:15
161.   trainwreck
158
Done deal for UCLA.

: (

2008-10-07 13:56:52
162.   wronghanded
146 I think Miller summed it up best with this sentance:

Part of that (success) is the presence of Manny Ramirez in the No. 3 hole -- he's changed this lineup more than any single hitter has with any other team.

2008-10-07 14:00:46
163.   Bumsrap
138, 142, 144
From Wikipedia,

A Shabbat goy, Shabbos goy or Shabbes goy (Yiddish: שבת גוי, Modern Hebrew: גוי של שבת goy shel shabat) is an individual who regularly assists a Jewish individual or organization by performing certain acts for them on the Jewish Sabbath which are forbidden to Jews within Jewish law. The phrase is a combination of the word "Shabbos" (שבת), referring to the Jewish Sabbath, and "goy" (גוי), meaning "foreigner" or "non-Jew."

Orthodox Judaism prohibits certain types of work on the Jewish Sabbath. Within certain guidelines (as dictated by the Shulchan Aruch, the most authoritative Jewish code of law), a non-Jewish individual can perform certain acts which are beneficial for Jews but would be forbidden for them to perform. In certain households and synagogues a particular non-Jewish person (invariably not a member of the home/synagogue) may be designated as the Shabbos goy for that place. This individual is usually one who would be present regardless of this role, such as a babysitter or a synagogue maintenance crew member, and is typically paid for the work. Before the 20th century Shabbos goys most commonly lit (or re-lit) stoves in Jewish homes in the winter. In the 20th century Colin Powell and Mario Cuomo both assisted their Jewish neighbors in this way.1 2 The artists Martin Scorsese3 and the adolescent Elvis Presley4 similarly helped neighbors.

2008-10-07 14:07:33
164.   LogikReader
158

How much is Weiss paying for this kid?

Uh oh did I say "paid?"

2008-10-07 14:08:50
165.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-10-07 14:09:13
166.   Cannonball
I keep reading/hearing "now Manny has to be resigned", but it's never that black & white. I think the Dodgers must make an attempt. I'd be interested in hearing where folks think the line is. There is a point where you walk away. 4Y/$72M sounds good to me, 5Y/$85M is prolly too far.

BTW, I think a team can have a $200M payroll and be quite "sabermetric". If the market has been exploited well, you could have $300M+ in talent. And in this crazy game, you may still lose in 5 to a .500 team.

2008-10-07 14:18:30
167.   Hollywood Joe
I was 10 years old on October the 7th 1977, my Mother surprised me that day so long ago and made it a day I will never forget.

School was something I did in between playing ball and I was at the age when baseball becomes less something my father watched and more something I understood in my own way, 10 years old was about the time that baseball became my game and it has been that way ever since.

With the day game approaching and me beginning to understand the magnitude of what the post-season meant and how special your few chances at October are, I was prepared to stay close at hand with my beloved Dodgers no matter what the circumstances (or consequences). With a small AM transistor radio stuck deep in my pocket and with an ear piece hidden inside my shirt, I would stealthily choose my spots for quick updates which I would scribble down on a sheet of paper close enough for my best friend to see the score. It was not the first time I used that strategy, day games seemed to be more frequent back then and I never got too far from the sound of Scully even at that age.

The school yard was buzzing with excitement that October morning, fall in the Valley was warm and windy and full of possibility. I don't remember all that we spoke about as we waited for the morning bell to ring but I do recall hatching a plan to lobby our 5th grade teacher to use the AV equipment to watch the game. We knew the TV in the back of the room worked because she often had us set it up to play "The Electric Company" on channel 28 when she wanted to sit in the back of the room drinking coffee and reading her Ladies Home Journal. As with most of our plans that involved adults during that time of our lives the request fell upon deaf ears, looking back our powers of charm and persuasion were not quite developed and our overwhelming excitement and pleading could not have been seen as a good thing in her elderly eyes. There would be no baseball and no talk of baseball while class was in session, she quickly made that clear.

Resigned to my fate and yet comforted by the radio hidden my pocket pressed against my leg, I was prepared to listen as I could and catch the highlights on the TV news later that night. The clock moved slowly. I was unable to think of anything but baseball as I fidgeted at my desk and sketched small flip books of crushing swings and balls flying over fence in the corners of my notebooks. Recess came and went with a blur and still the day dragged on like an old dog on a hot day.

Sometime in that void between the joy of recess and the promise of lunch a student monitor came into our class room, these were the days when messages were still largely hand delivered by the best students of the 6th grade. We stirred in our seats and thought nothing of the note handed to our teacher, things like this were common enough then. As my teacher opened the folded white paper and read it silently, I saw her look in my direction, look down and read again, and look up again at me. My mind raced, "what could I have possibly gotten caught for?" I thought to myself, everything and anything that I could be guilty of within recent memory flashed in front of me – I was truly panicked for there were more than enough things that I was guilty of to warrant some serious consequences should they hit the light of day. Everything from spit wads, to the radio, to pitching quarters in the boys bathroom at lunch, and that's just the stuff I feel comfortable telling you about now.

"Please don't let it be me, please don't, please, please, please" was the sound of my mind reaching out for mercy somewhere above. My teacher calmly folded the note and handed back to the monitor, without an ounce of emotion in her voice she said aloud my name. Oh god, it was me.

She told me to collect my belongings, that my Mother was here and taking me out of school for the rest of the day. Glory hallelujah! I am saved, I am delivered. I knew in an instant that this was no punishment this was salvation. My mother, swayed by my love of the Dodgers, was here to bring me home to watch the game. I tried not to gloat and did what I could to maintain my behavior (and smile) as I quick grabbed my things and floated towards the door.

In the years that have passed so many days that I spent in school, at work, doing the right thing…so many of these days have faded into the black void of memories lost, but that day, when my Mother allowed me to play hooky, that day remains with me always. I remember…
My Mothers smile as I broke into a run when I saw her at the office, burying my face into her stomach and wrapping my arms around her so tight.
My Mom making me a hot waffle sandwich filled with ice cream, possibly the most delicious memory of my youth and letting me eat in front of the television (something she frowns upon to this day).
The Dodgers losing late and my chest being tight, the pain and anxiety which I have come to know as "dread" in my adult life
The improbable joy of Vic Davalillo, a name that I hold dear to this very day and a reference that I drop to people of my age and when they recognize the name I realize I may have found a friend.
The heroics of Manny Mota, on a team full of stars someone who I loved then for reasons I still don't know why
The clutchness of Bill Russell. I have come to not believe in clutch as a concept, but Bill Russell will always be clutch for me
The magic of victory snatched from defeat (the pain of defeat snatched from victory was a lesson soon to me taught to me by the hated Yankees but for this day I was yet unspoiled)

Many days have been lost to the ravages of time, but that day is always my day…an everlasting gift from the love of my mother to the love of this game.

I just called and told her this story.

2008-10-07 14:27:46
168.   Marty
Do any of you roll on Shabbos?
2008-10-07 14:29:59
169.   njr
167

Wonderful wonderful post. A pleasure to read. Thanks for sharing that story.

2008-10-07 14:58:09
170.   ToyCannon
167
I hope you don't mind but since you got LAT'd I felt this post needed to be seen. I've posted it in quotes on True Blue. If that bothers you I'll take it down but truly this was a post for the ages and is what makes DT such a great place to visit.

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