Answering Cap DC from the last thread, I am back but was sadly asleep and missed the Wilson Bridge go boom. Hadn't know it was too happen until this am, and am bummed to have missed since (i) I used to drive over that bridge every day for about 9 months, and (ii) I love to watch things get blown up. (And I am struggling to avoid a rule 5 violation comparing the bridge implosion noise to the goings on between the mayoral candidate whose name sounds farm products and the mayoral candidate whose name sounds like fancy luggage.)

I am glad in my absence to see that the Code has become a source of bonding and mirth.

On move love of seeing things blown up, we stayed part of our trip on lovely Lac La Belle in Oconomowoc, WI. On our last day, my wife went running and came back reporting there were 8 fire trucks at the house two over. Turns it it was a real old house that the owner wanted to tear down and rebuild, so he donated it to the local fire department. Apparently, they used it for training all summer (filled it with smoke and ran around in their masks, searched for stuffed animals hidden in burnin crawlspaces, climbed about on the roof) and on this day the burned the entire thing to the ground. So we spent about an hour watching the show. Good way to meet the neighbors.

If you were wondering, they do indeed pump lake water up to feed their hoses.

Sam-
At peril of rule five... You didn't miss much last week. More loudness. More accusations. More killing of trees to produce massive amounts of campaign fliers and posters. I've seen some Ward 3 lightposts with eight or more posters on them. There must be crews of volunteers walking around with ladders to put them up in the dead of night.

I'm just a little bit annoyed that I put up with a year-long campaign season only to move to VA just before the election. At least I have a congressman now.

I heard that they were going to do it yesterday, while I was driving across the new bridge.

I must admit that I did a slight double-take.

THANK YOU for taking on this important issue. I often hear the McCourts talk about how they are going to improve things at the stadium, usually saying they are "studying" the problem, but nothing gets done. We all need to raise our voices a bit and let them know these things matter. It might sound silly to get worked up about the food lines, but as you say, we are all missing big portions of the game as a result. And while we're at it, how about mentioning that the food at Dodger Stadium is among the worst stadium food in the country, and how about the fact that they still think it's okay to only serve grilled dodger dogs at a few of the concession stands and not most of the others? Along with trading Piazza, taking away the grilled dogs symbolizes the abuse and disrespect of the Fox ownership. Bringing back grilled dogs, along with upgrading the food and improving the problems with the long lines, would show me the McCourts really care.

They stopped grilling Dodger Dogs again? Did nobody learn from that the first time around?

I was able to get a grilled Dodger Dog at the first base side Top Deck concession stand but not the first base side.

Other than beer, I refuse to eat/drink anything that is not available by the roving vendors. So, it's pretty much an opportunity to eat peanuts for me.

5 I don't think I've ever had a problem finding grilled Dodger Dogs, so I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about.

9 I think he's just mad that they're not available at every stand.

The grilled dog fiasco started long before the team was sold to News Corp. It started when the concessions at Dodger Stadium were outsourced to Marriott. Marriott decided to steam all of the hot dogs (most likely to save money). Immediately, there was a swell of outrage over the steamed dogs. I remember one letter in the newspaper that railed against the steamed dogs and finished by saying, "if you grill them I will come".

Due to the outrage Marriott came up with a compromise. They continued to steam all of the dogs, but would finish (basically char the outside a bit) at locations that specified "grilled" Dodger Dogs. The upshot is that very few of the concession stands have sold "grilled" Dodger Dogs for a very long time (I don't remember exactly when the controversy started, but I think it has been nearly 20 years!).

Last time I was at the stadium my friend and I were marvelling at the "system" as we stood in a very short yet still slow line. The solution you proposed - cashiers and food runners having separate jobs - is painfully obvious and has been for years. It isn't just a matter of making the lines faster for the fans. How much more money in concessions do you think they could make with faster lines? 20% more? 30%? How many times have you given up and left a long line, or not even bothered if you saw the lines were long? I do that at least half the time. It's an embarassingly amateur operation.

If you think it's a problem in Los Angeles, you should visit Yankee Stadium. If the woman behind the counter isn't otherwise engaged in conversation with her colleagues when it's your turn to order, she still moves slower than Greg Luzinski in a snowstorm once she finally condescends to take your order.

11 - It was definitely before I left the Daily News in 1992.

What are you doing Daddy?

I'm typing, honey.

Ooooeeeeeoooooayyy
Za za za za

(I need to get my daughter her own sign-on.)

Having generally never been able to afford MLB ballpark food -- and being unwilling to eat most of it even if the price was right -- all this hand-wringing about concessions is slightly amusing to me. Personally, the state of a ballpark's concessions means zero to me in the grand scheme of things. The only thing I buy at ballparks is a bottle of water when I'm really thirsty.

19 - It's definitely a Dodger issue, nonetheless.

20 Oh, I certainly believe that it is. It's just something that never would have occurred to me if I hadn't read your posts on it.

15-18 was realy cute by the way.

22 I left out the extra L because I heard the Padres needed it. Just so you know.

I think I've brought this up in all of the previous threads on this topic so I may as well reiterate it here, but with a little different emphasis.

The basic problem with concessions is that space is at a premium and its used very inefficiently. All the good ideas that people bring up, including having runners, require more space. If they had an extra person assigned to each register in the current configuration, those people would just be running into each other trying to retrieve food. You could call them "runners-into."

My solution - get rid of the prime wasted-space culprits - the fast food franchise places, which very few people like, and sell grosser and over-priced-er food than the regular ballpark stuff. My recollection is that before the Carlses and Pizza Yucks came in, all the dog stands were cafeteria style, and everything was fine and dandy.

8. Beer isn't available from roving vendors at Dodger Stadium? Wow, it's been a while.

I was at my third game of the year last night and I decided to wait until after the first inning to buy my food. It worked. I got my food in less than 10 minutes.

Of course only one person was in line before me. The woman taking my order was definitely uninspired. I had to repeat my order after every item. And she still messed it up twice. Language was definitely a problem. I was also frustrated that I had to walk the length of a football field to get two straws.

But I do want to add that Brad Penny was far more frustrating than anything to do with the food.

When I'm really on my game, I stop at El Siete Mares on Sunset in Silver Lake on my way to the game and pick up a shrimp burrito. That definitely makes the concession issue moot.

I do believe comment 17 violates rule 8.

One "za" was enough to make the point.

25 Sadly, its state law. I went to a bunch of astros games this year and got to marvel at the concept of the beer man. If you eat before and have a bladder of iron you dont even have to get up during the game!

Didn't we just have somebody posing as Jon yesterday on another site? Now this? When will this madness end?!?

The Dodgers didn't allow beer sales at the Coliseum and then decided to have stands when Dodger Stadium opened in 1962.

When Anaheim Stadium opened, there was a debate about having roving beer vendors, but community opposition stopped it.

By the time San Diego Stadium, there were articles in the San Diego papers stating that there would not be roving beer vendors there because of State law and a belief that it would be easier to keep minors from buying beers if people had to walk to get the beers.

I believe the last major league stadium in California that had roving beer vendors was the year the Angels played at Wrigley Field in 1961.

There could have been beer sales in San Franicsco though.

They stopped grilling the dogs 20 years ago?! Wow, that puts things in perspective. Aside from smacking me in the face with the awareness of how old I am, it makes me soul search a bit. I mean, maybe 20 years is too long to keep a chip on my shoulder. I'm probably the only person in America who goes to sleep frustrated that they don't grill all the dogs. It is time for a change!

As of today, I am getting over my issues, and embracing the boiled dogs. Who needs that char on the side! It's just a hot dog. No more, no less. If I happen to be near the "grilled" sign, fine, but no more wandering the stadium in search of them. I will not curse under my breath or complain to my wife about it one more time! I refuse to be the old man up in the stands muttering to himself about the grilled hot dogs!

Now if only I could embrace the gridlock leaving the parking lot.

You would think that if they had stopped grilling the Dodger Dogs 20 years ago that they would be cold by now.

20 years = 140 in hot dog years

On today's anniversary of Katrina's landfall, the Institute for Southern Studies' blog Facing South has reprinted its real time posts from that week. They are quite something to read, and really drew me back to feelings I had at the time.

There are no permalinks, so you need to scroll down a bit to the post titled Katrina Flashback. http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/

Sam,
For all those traumatized by your comment over on the Griddle thread... please expand. My head is about to blow up.

I'm not sure the fast food analogy is a particularly good one. In general, my experience of most chains is that one orders, pays, gets ones own soda and returns to wait about 30 seconds to a minute for a total time of about 2-3 minutes, assuming no unusual orders. Also, you generally don't have more than 1-2 people in front of you at McDonalds.

I don't think that Dodger lines are much slower, it's just that there are often 10-person lines, and at 2+ minutes per, that's an inning.

At busy games, that can easily be longer, and if some customers order lots of things, or less common items, that just adds to the time. Moreover, it's a lot more frustrating at a Dodger game, since you're missing what you came for, whereas waiting at McDonalds just means you're getting back to work a few minutes later.

Not to say I wouldn't like things faster--or that roving vendors with hot dogs in the upper deck wouldn't be great.

36 follow up ongoing over The Griddle.

Can anyone post the B-Pro chances of the Dodgers making the post-season?

31 I'm pretty sure I remember roaming beer vendors in Oakland when I was younger. Not sure when they stopped, though. When they start with the 7th-inning cutoff thing?

33 Bob, thanks for the good laugh.

39 Dodgers are 80% to make the playoffs. 69% to win the West. The NL WC is predicted to require 84.5 wins.

Side note- does anyone have an ESPN insider p/w? I already paid for my magazine renewal but I can't access the site until my first issue comes, argh. bigcpa@gmail.com

From ongoing washpost chat w/excellent national baseball writer Dave Sheinin; reprinted because food and Oakland related:

Nashville, Tenn.: Dave

I know you like to eat a little jambalaya and boudin ... Wade Boggs loved his chicken ... Tell me some more about baseball and food. Which restaurants do you look forward to on the road? What are your favorite stadium concession stand specialties? Any current players with strange eating habits?

Dave Sheinin: Wow... who is this? You obviously know me a little. I do like me a little cajun food now and then. Hoo-wee! As for my favorite restaurants around the leagues, Wild Ginger in Seattle and Boulevard in San Francisco come immediately to mind. I'm not well-versed on concession stand foods, since we pay for meals in the press box. But I have wandered the concourses on occasion, and I know there's a great barbecue joint down the left-field line at the Colisseum in Oakland.

Talking about things moving and shaking, we had an earthquake centered in the channel between Oahu and Molokai last night around 8:10pm. It was about a 3.2, apparently. I was sitting here catching up on the game thread when I felt it. Looked down to see if the dog had kicked the chair, since that was the immediate explanation which came to mind, but no! She was two feet away and showed no evidence of feeling the thing at all.

The TV stations were inundated with telephone calls, they claimed. Why, one wonders? "Save me, KGMB?"

People are weird.

At the Pacific Theaters at the Grove they have concession kiosks where you place your own order with a credit card then go to the counter for pickup. That takes the "human element" out of the equation which might be giving the stadium clerks a bit too much credit anyway.

Oh and Sheinin picks the Dodgers and the Twins in the World Series with the Twins earning the rings.

46. Is he piggybacking off Neyer, or vice-versa?

36 - When I saw your comment, I thought you meant this:

http://tinyurl.com/fqed7

Meanwhile, BTF checks in with the shocking news that Jim Tracy is undermining his GM with subtle comments in the press.

http://tinyurl.com/pkz75

Ok, apparently Rob McMillin doesn't like the dodgers anymore, considering he hasn't blogged about a dodger game in a while, and pretty much only reports when they lose, so he can go back to his baby whining about Frank McCourt. I wonder why?

48 I was going to post something about that yesterday but decided that rule 5 would not allow me to do so.

All I will say is, note the political affiliations of all parties involved and it becomes obvious how and why the "rumor" got started. This is not the first, or second, or third time this particular newspaper (and I use that word loosely) has tried to tear down the Boss.

44 - That's very, very weird. I woke up at 1:10 AM when I heard a loud rattle. I thought it was the Wilson Brige going down, but that had happened 25 minutes prior... Maybe it's a sign.

Or is Hawaii six hours behind in the summer? Damn those states that ignore daylight savings (as well as those that don't).

I think it's obvious that Bruce Springsteen and Sandy Koufax are having an affair.

Or four hours... Whatever...

"political affiliations of all parties involved" isn't discussing politics?

Since when is Bruce Springsteen supposed to be treated differently than any other public figure in the pages of the New York papers?

What time is it in Hawai'i?

Let these guys do the math!

http://www.timezoneconverter.com/

56 Like I said, all I have to say about it was said in 51.

On the concessions thread: I'm not sure how to do say this, so I'll be a little vauge, but it's very safe to say that Levy corp. has serious frustrations with the union for the concession stand workers. Without getting into a labor/union debate, the friction there has slowed the process of making changes to how things are done.

OK, so "political affiliations of all parties involved" isn't discussing politics. I see a lot of these kinds of posts alluding to politics. If there is a difference between discusing politics and alluding to politics, I'll just ignore the posts.

Politics, politics, politics...

Darn... Off by an hour. It was probably just a bird flying into my window.

37 - My wife and I try to get to the game at least a 1/2 hour early and we get our food pretty quickly as the lines haven't become the death march to Manila yet. Shea Stadium has roving hot dog and beer vendors when we visited last summer. One factor to help alleviate the long lines is to reduce the minimum age requirement from 76 to 55. :) I mean does Dodger Stadium employ the Sunnyvale rest home for the concession stands? I don't like to be mean but God sakes alive, get a couple college kids that don't have arthritic knees to man some of the food lines.

I would be for getting rid of Panda Express, Carl's Jr. etc, and replacing them with Dodger Dog concessions. That might shorten the lines a bit. You can pretty much walk in and out of that Carl's in less than a minute any time you want. I don't think it needs to be there.

I wonder if part of the reasons the lines are so slow is because they allow you to use credit cards now. If they had a few more ATM's they wouldn't have to do that.

I have noticed a slowing of food vendors over the years as well. I love the same old ladies I see every day. But they have reached their speed "peak" and still seem to squint at the register and hesitate when you order, even after all these years. Food runners would be good. They were doing it at the pizza line last night, it was working really well.

If the lines are short, you can usually count on missing one inning. If the lines are long I've missed up to 3 innings of the game. The best thing to do is get their a bit early, order your food from the vendors up top, and snack on foods from the walking vendors the rest of the game. Get your beer from the Beers of the World vendors, as that's all they serve, and those lines tend to go a bit faster.

Of course, most people don't realize you can bring in whatever food you want into the stadium. I've even brough in my own drinks, and got free ice from vendors (bring your own cup)

And I was very upset with Little last night, letting Dessens hit with only a 4 run lead. Bases were loaded, 2 outs... we almost lost the game because of it. Bad choice. He wanted Dessens to come in and pitch the next inning, and ended up pulling him after Dessings allowed his first two runners to get on base anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post

If you're interested in the political affiliations of certain parties. The Early years paragraph.

63 But if you get rid of Panda Express I'll never again get to hear Rick Monday talk about the enticing sounds that will lure me up to their counter.

Actually, I suppose that's a good thing.

Anyway, it appears Bob Dylan and Xeifrank share some opinions on the current state of music. From yesterday's USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2006-08-28-bob-dylan_x.htm

Dylan waxes ecstatic about his current sidemen, yet he's a defiant solo artist who dismisses the concept of bands as little gangs.

"The performers who changed my life were individuals," he says. "They didn't conform to any sense of reality but their own. The last performer who stood up to be counted as an original is Bruce Springsteen, I think. Individuals move me, not mobs. People with originality, whether it's Hector, Achilles, Ted Turner or Jerry Lee Lewis or Hank Williams."

It's 0854HST as I type. Three hours from the West Coast, six from the East. When y'all go off DST it mucks up the TV skeds for all those CNN blathering shows like Larry King and the one Aaron Brown used to anchor.

Aaron Brown? Why that's so 2004.

68 I will be out in your neck of the woods the first week of October as part of my master plan to visit all 50 states by the time I turn 30.

Then hopefully I can make it to Dodgertown for the early part of spring training next year. The day is March 4 and Florida will be the last state yet unconquered.

Yeah, I know. We've been wondering what he's doing these days, beyond living off the contract buyout he got when he was summarily dismissed in favor of the "newer, younger, more hip" Anderson Cooper. Funny how that happened right after Cooper went all ballistic during the Katrina aftermath.

God, if I smell one more person eating steamed broccoli and meat over rice I will barf all over my new stadium seat.

70 Send me an e-mail at linkmeister@gmail.com and we can meet for a sarsparilla somewhere!

67. Yes Bob and I see eye to eye on this, but I must admit I am not a Springsteen fan at all. In fact I can't stand him/his style/his music (not sure which of the three).

44. People are weird? People Are Strange. Now that's a real band. :)

*. Dodger magic number was reduced from 31 to 29 last night. Tonight we can only chip one game off the number.

vr, Xei

74. Check that, we can still chip two. Speaking of chips, it's lunch time!
vr, Xei

Mmmmmm, chiiiips.

Hey Eric -- Maury Brown's site is back up with the blurb I referenced over at The Griddle.

http://www.maurybrown.com/

Salt and vinegar.

People with originality, whether it's Hector, Achilles, Ted Turner or Jerry Lee Lewis or Hank Williams.

One of the funniest sentences I've read in a while.

Sorry to bring this back to baseball, any thoughts on the Dodgers in the hunt for David Wells?

67. Achilles is an individual that moved Dylan? How much help from the gods did Achilles have to kill Hector? Invulnerable hide from his mother, new impregnable armor for this fight specifically made by Hephaestus, and Athena tricking Hector and denying him a second weapon. I can't see why anyone when actually reading the Illiad would actually think of Achilles as a great individual, his glory was a team effort. My respect for Dylan has gone down substantially based on that quote.

80
Wells would bring too much savvy. Way too much savvy.

Most likely, the Padres fans would treat him like a traitor because he is not playing for his hometown team. Not that they would get a chance to see him pitch for the Dodgers.

Maybe the Giants will pick him up. He's the right age.

82
There's not enough room on one team for the respective savvy of Maddux and Wells.

I don't think Dylan is saying Achilles is great, just individual. In the Illiad he defies the high king, rampages through Trojans and kills the hero Hector. Not great, but very unique.

81 Achilles is in your alleyway
He don't want me here he does brag
He's pointing to the sky
And he's hungry like a man in drag
How come you get someone like him
to be your guard ?
You know I want to love you
Honey, but you're so hard.

80 "Sorry to bring this back to baseball, any thoughts on the Dodgers in the hunt for David Wells?"

We're trying to solve the food line crisis, not make it worse.

84. But he's not individual. He defies Agamemnon because his mother convinces Zues to punish the Greeks until Achilles gets what he wants. He rampages through the Trojans and kills Hector with the help of the Gods. Achilles was totally a team creation and helped a lot by the man.

86 Even though Todd Hollansworth got some hits and some walks, there was no reason for Adam Dunn to only get one plate appearance last night.

87 - I don't think that a little help from your friends robs your individuality. Achilles not towing the party line like Odysseus or Hector is what makes him stand out. He was a brat and a demi-god, but he was interesting. Plus Brad Pitt played him in a movie so that means he must have been historically significant (sarcasm).

He was a brat and a demi-god

He was also a bit of a heel

83.

better not trade for Wells. No point in that at all.

88.

there was also no reason to bat Todd in front of Brandon Phillips. But I'm sure we'll take it.

78 Jalepeno Crunch Taters.

But what about Gregor Samsa? He was a bug for goodness sakes

90 - and a Weak heel at that. :)

From Rob Neyer's ESPN.com chat:

Sam (Syracuse, NY): Do you think Ty Wigginton will come back and produce the good numbers he has like he did before he got injured? and do you think he will play daily?

Rob Neyer: A Ty Wigginton question? On August 29? This might be a first, not only for me but for the Internets in general. I'm so stunned I can't even begin to formulate a reasonable answer...

You're not a real chatter until you start mocking the questions people submit.

I just timed my credit card transaction. Eight seconds. I don't think that is (or should be) the problem.

96
And using the word "Internets"

82 - Hey. You are using my favorite word, "savvy". I got chided and teased for using that word a few weeks back while referring to the mature beyond his years Russell Martin. I like the way they handled the Reds attempted steal of home last night, well executed, Furcal, Martin & Company!!

99 Martin did wait too long to throw the ball back to third base and was lucky they still managed to tag the runner out.

In general, though, I do agree with you. Martin is easily the most polished rookie I've ever seen as far as baseball smarts go.

98 And it's "tubes" now.

I am very ashamed to admit that I am a Levy employee at Dodger Stadium. Although, I am an aisle vendor, so I hold no responsibility for the long lines at the stands. I have witnessed a lot at Dodger Stadium and the reasons that come to mind for the long lines are the way Levy manages. They have taken the "Wal-Mart" approach of scheduling full time workers less then 40 hours a week as to avoid paying overtime. This means the average stand worker will get a day or two off during a home stand. There is nothing wrong with this except that Levy doesn't employ enough stand workers on a given day. So they are giving too many days off to employees who should be working every game and would prefer to work every game. Due to the shortage of workers there are not enough food runners. Every stand is supposed to have a couple of food runners but there is usual just one and maybe two. These food runners are so overworked due to the volume of customers they become overly confused and end up causing more problems then helping.

Being an Aisle Vendor I would recommend buying what you can from us. The prices are the same as at the stands. I understand you can not buy every item from us but we can keep the number of trips you make to the stands at a minimum. We work on commission and most of us (does not include the old timers who should have retired seasons ago) work very fast and hustle.

The stand workers do not work on commission and do not really care how fast they get you your food. There is obviously a lack of motivation on their behalf.

89. I think it does when the point Dylan is trying to make is that he doesn't respect groups, only individual performers and Achilles is one of them. Achilles is an individual performer in the same way Britney Spears is, purely the product of those with more power and greater brains, plus, I always found Odysseus and Hector more interesting. Hector is truly conflicted about fighting the war and torn between his family and his city. Odysseus is doesn't just toe the party line, he played crazy to try to get out of the war, he cheated Ajax out of Achilles' armor and made him commit suicide, and basically his entire goal during the war was to leave and go home.

101 To be fair... They have a lot of tubes in Alaska. And they obviously think about them alot...

Here are my ideas (involving an express line)
1. The line can be used by anyone making a purchase of at least $25
2. A line for people with a Dodgers Rewards card (not sure if they have it). It can be like the device that Mobile uses where you place it under a scanner. There would be a person behind the counter only handling these customers getting them their food. The customer would ring themselves up and it would be a quick transaction.

The other thing the Dodgers can do is show the after taxed price. Every item could be priced in increments of $.25. This way, the cashiers wouldn't be wasting a lot of time passing out/collecting small amounts of change.

102 - I love to use you guys when I can.

...the cashiers wouldn't be wasting a lot of time passing out/collecting small amounts of change.

Or they could have one of those Safeway-style automatic change dispensers.

Wasn't it the NY Post that tried "outing" Piazza? Just asking, 'cause "political affiliations" and all that...

103 - On the other hand, Odydeus made sure no one else could leave unless he did. Plus, he convinced Agamemnon to sacrfice his daughter when he was waivering on the subject. He also was the one who finally ended the war with the horse, thus indirectly leading to the slaughter of thousands. Achilles was more than just a product of the talents and skills of others, he was the single best warrior in the battle and whether or not that was due to his mother's machinations, it was still him fighting out there.

Who was it that sent out a fleet of toy boats in an attempt to get out of the suitors oath?

62 "The Dodger Concession Stands: God's waiting room since 1955"

86 Bwaahahahahahaha

108 A cynic might say that it was an act of retribution by a former employer towards a former employee who left under unfavorable circumstances.

Taking a break from the food discussion (you guys are making me hungry!), I noticed Catfish Stew's most recent post at the time of this writing, "OK, Take A Guess" (http://tinyurl.com/k4487). Ken asks readers to guess who is the current leader of the A's in Win Shares. Curious, I checked the current leader for the Dodgers...

OK, take a guess. :)

One other note of interest out of several, Sandy Alomar Jr. had 3 WS to Navarro's 1, including a higher fielding WS (though Ken and Eric Enders make the point that fielding metrics for catchers are none-too-precise, to say the least).

Dodgers ranked by Win Shares: http://tinyurl.com/heuyd

110 Grrr...1962.

113

Some of those lines formed in 1955.

Here in Milwaukee, the Brewers have a novel(at least I have never seen it elsewhere) approach to concession stands. Instead of some food contractor paying less motivated people $6 per hour to bore themselves half-to-death, they let volunteer groups (churches, Little League teams, boy/girl scouts, etc.) man the food stands. In exchange for 10% of the gross sales, they work for "free". Honestly service is much better and you can at least superficially feel like you are doing a good deed in buying your 8th beer.

109. That doesn't sound like an interesting individual and not just a yes-man who toes the line to you?
As for Achilles, yeah, he was a great warrior, but almost everything he did was controlled by the gods.
For a true individual effort look at Ajax who fought Hector to a draw even though he was being protected by the gods until Achilles could slay him. Now that is someone who stand up to the man.
I don't remember the story of someone sending toy boats to avoid the war.

I think arguing about whether Achilles was an individual or not is rendered moot by the fact that the Greek legends were governed by predestination, and that nobody actually had any free will.

Frankly, any Greek character held up as an example of an individual is not a good example.

112 Well its good to know that we're sorta getting our money's worth with Furcal. Its also nice to see Ethier and Martin representing on the list.

115. A woman I work with does the same thing for her Little League at Soldier Field

116. stood up to the man, not stand up to the man.

115 - Quite frankly, by the time some people are on their 8th beer, they might be thinking that just about anything they do shy of urinating in public (and sometimes even that) is a good deed. =P

118 I guess I won't have to guess now. But that's who I would've guessed anyway simply because he's been our only everyday player.

I'd like to see the 0.6 of a win that Lofton has gotten us defensively, though.

102 I try to buy my water or soft drinks from you guys. I wonder why you guys can sell pizzas but not hot dogs?

122 Saturday night, I think, maybe it was Friday so it actually wasn't a win.

116 - The story is that all of the Greek Kings attempted to woo Helen, fearful that the competition would turn to violence, Odysseus (who was a suitor himself), at the behest of Helen's father, devised an oath that if anyone attempted to take Helen by force all of the other suitors were obligated to send an army to return her. The oath was forgotten until Helen eloped with Paris, which triggered the oath and demanded that all of the suitors send armies to fetch her. Odysseus feigned madness (he was wildly plowing a field and sowing salt) but was discovered (one of his children was placed in front of the plow). Another suitor sent a fleet of toy boats in an attempt to dodge the oath by following the letter rather than the spirit of the oath. I think Agamemnon later had him killed but since I can't even remember his name, perhaps I am mistaken.

I always thought that people would ask for too much when buying hot dogs:

"I want ketchup!"
"I want mustard!"
"I don't want any onions, but I want some relish!"
"I want relish and mustard!"

Too many condiment-oriented disputes.

The three leading causes of war in the world:
1) religion
2) money
3) condiments

Odysseus got his own sequel though!!

Re: the food lines, when I caught a game at the Twindome a couple yrs ago, they had all HS/college kids working the food stands. Not only was the service hella-fast, but it was also kind of weird to be buying food from people the same age as I was...

102 - As a non-LA native, about how many Aisle Vendors are there in relation to the number of food stands?

By the way, I may be late in noticing this, but last night was the first time I heard a delay, reportedly 10-seconds, of the radio broadcast. I have heard this when listening to the game on XM or the computer but never on "live" radio broadcasts.

Apparently this is due to KFWB's HD radio, personally it is really annoying, maybe they can try to get a special signal for around Dodger Stadium so we can get rid of the delay.

Volunteer groups staff at least some of the stands at the Metrodome as well. And the wait is never that long especially if you wait until they have figured out how to do things. There are also a lot more aisle vendors (including hot dog guys but you don't ever want to watch them actually serve the hot dogs, it is an epidemic waiting to happen).

126 Many lives could have been saved had people just been willing to share their dijon mustard like those old Grey Poupon commercials.

112 And second in the league for SS.
Not bad for a "mediocre" SS.

122,124 Yeah, maybe's it the intangibles.

123 - We sold hot dogs one year, about 4 years ago. I was successful at selling them. Although, the stands could not make them fast enough for the vendors and themselves. Also, the ones we sold were not grilled and handing out ketchup/mustard/relish packets was a bundle of fun.

127 - Depending on the size of the crowd there are about 50 to 75 vendors per game. Usually 2 or 3 vendors per level per product. With peanuts being the exception, on games with large crowds there are usually 4 to 6 peanut vendors per level. I can not tell you the number of concession stands but there are easily 5 times as many concession stand workers as aisle vendors.

100 Exactly so!

125. I know the story, I'd just never heard the toy boats part of the story. Also apparently, Odysseus already knew he was out of the running as he agreed to the oath only if Helen's father would help him convince Penelope's father to allow Odysseus to marry her.

126 What about Women?

135
Condiments passed up women for the #3 spot after the Mayonnaise War between Canada and the U.S. that was fought during the 1920s.

History books have covered it up. But it was horrible and there are parts of Manitoba where tuna is not consumed to this day.

135. I think that's tied into Money, since the only reason you want money is for the women.

134 - As I hear it he got Penolope as a reward for devising the oath, and he felt that he shouldn't have had to go to war since he wasn't really a suitor.

In this country, you got to get the relish first, then you get the power, then you get the women.

The whole story of the Odyssey could have been avoided if Ulysses had just passed the ketchup to Poseidon.

140 This message brought to you by the Ketchup Advisory Board.

The Ketchup Advisory Board is a splinter group from the Catsup Council.

I think it was cocktail sauce actually Bob. The king of the seas knows better than to use ketchup on his mutton.

The onion-cilantro relish is catching on. And not far behind is the jalepeno relish.

And they banned BlueTahoe!!!!!

145 - ... Who did? The Toaster? Or is this a different site?

I think Jon banned him a few days ago.

146
The Ketchup Advisory Board

I missed it. Why did BlueTahoe get banned?

149
General tone-deafness

And #3

149https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/486067.html#comments

comment #'s 3 and 44 tell part of the story.

Again, second to Bob.

148 - I heard he spelled the condiment Cetchup. Unconscionable.

For the uneducated masses: http://tinyurl.com/s5oc6

I haven't seen a thread disintegrate this rapidly since the Lo Duca trade.

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier:
Chales Dasni of the Dodger rookie-level Ogden Raptors, suspended for 50 games after testing positive for a performance-enhancing substance. Thats nice.

Lineup posted at Inside the Dodgers:

Furcal, SS
Lugo, 3B
Nomar, 1B
Drew, RF
Kent, 2B
Ethier, LF
Hall, C
Repko, CF
Hendrickson, P

Has Lugo played in every game since the story came out about him wanting to be traded...?

Was that the Ketchup Council, or the Peoples Front of Ketchup? Or the Ketchupian Peoples Front?

i just planted my flag! woo!

i can't find my flag, i guess it takes 24 hrs or something.

158-

I like that lineup except for Hendrickson...just makes me shudder.

Any more news on Kuo possibly getting a start? Don't see what we have to lose in that scenario...

155 - I'm assuming you're very diligent with the recylcing?

158

Repko in CF is great plus he had a pretty good game yesterday.

163

i'd love to see that, let's hope Grady makes the right choice & calls him up.

159 It mostly has to do with the fact that Betemit cant hit right handed and the Reds are trotting out a series of lefties on the mound.

i'm guessing this will be a slug fest but you never know.

167 That...

And the fact that Lugo recently came into possesion of several compromising photographs of Grady Little intentionally soliciting strategy advice from Jim Tracy.

Going way back to the original post about food lines, I think the slowest moving food lines in the world are at Disneyland.

They put Dodger Stadium to shame.

On the food - basically I don't care. I'm vegan and there is nothing there for me anyway, but even if I were not I would recognize that the food provided sucks. Even if it were free and I got it instantly, I would not eat it. Bring your own food if you really can't manage not to eat for a 4 hour stretch.

On the linked article - by far the most disturbing thing in it was one line that had nothing to do with consessions.

The Dodgers have stepped up efforts to trade for a veteran pinch-hitter and an experienced relief pitcher by Sept. 1.

Any idea which highly regarded prospects Flanders intends to trade to acquire "proven vets" in the two least important catagories of MLB players?

I guess nobody liked my ideas :(

171
Veganism looks appealing to me after the Wolfgang Puck Express near the library took 27 minutes to serve me my hamburger.

And I was the only person there at the time.

What were they doing? Talking to the steer and trying to comfort it as it was gently put to sleep before it was slaughtered?

You've never seen me angry until I'm denied food!

And the burger cost me just $10.

I called the manager later with self-righteous indignation. He said he was sorry.

171 There was some blurb in another article about how the Dodgers were after Jeff Conine in exchange for a 'midlevel' prospect. In the end Ned didnt want to do the deal because Conine had too many performance incentives in his contract and it would have cost too much. MLB.com says we might be after Greg Norton, a Devil Ray.

170

Magic Mountain gives them a run for there money as well.

171 - Do the DRays even have any more proven vets? Haven't we siphoned them all off, yet? =P

175

Magic Mountain's food lines will be greatly shortened once it becomes a housing development.

Other Tampa Bay "proven vets" available:

Kevin Witt
Josh Paul
Travis Lee
Shawn Camp
Brian Meadows
Dan Miceli

Tell me when to stop

i also heard David Wells could become a Dodger.

178 - Keep on with the force! Don't stop 'till you get enough.

177

that's a whole other topic, I can't believe our beloved Magic Mountain will be no more.

I've managed to avoid Magic Mountain completely. I hate rollercoasters.

178

Ned Colletti & his Devil Ray fetish continues.

182

hate is a strong word Marty. dislike?

Hey all, back from AZ where I can tell you that A) they have roving beer vendors B) they have volunteers (as was suggested) and short lines. C) I asked the ushers (On Jon's behalf) for the policy on letting people down the aisles. It's any break in the action including new hitter, trip to the mound, etc.
The ballpark continues to be one of my favorites. They had just installed a new sound system at the start of the homestand and they now have that same wrap around board that you see at Dodger Stadium. I think of myself as a traditionalist (sort of) but I think that really adds to the experience and I know it ads to ad revenue.
A really great fan experience for hardcore fans as well as those just out for a fun night.

loath maybe? I've never seen the point in going so fast you get sick.

Braves up 4-2 on the Giants in the 4th. We still care about the Giants, right?

174 - So can I start my completely unsubstantiated Billingsley-for-Norton rumor here too?

185

Roving beer vendors will most likely NEVER be seen at any outdoor sporting event in California. The laws and regulations governing the sales of alcoholic beverages are very hard to change.

Make that 7-2 Braves on a Chipper Jones HR.
And it adds to ad revenue.

189 If you're in the dugout boxes, they waiters will sell you beer. Wonder how they get around that.

187 - No, we no longer care about them. We will stay together, though, for the sake of the kids.

191
The waiters aren't roving vendors and they always make sure to hand the beer directly to the purchaser.

If you're in a big aisle, the beer would have to be passed down the aisle where little Johnny Baseball Fan could sneak in several gulps before it goes to Dad Baseball Fan.

If you look on the order forms, they mention that if you are buying beer that if the waiter can't make it to your seat, you have to get up to meet the server.

Or at least that's what it says at Staples and Angels Stadium.

186

to me it's all about the thrill, i get your point though.

The Cardinals leadoff man tonight is Preston Wilson. He hit a home run.

But Florida is winning 5-1 as Mark Mulder's slide into the abyss continues.

182 I enjoy roller coasters, and I still try to avoid Magic Mountain at all costs. Plus, I live 10 minutes from it and I'm a teenager, and yet I haven't been there in years. That land is probably better off as housing, and it's better than tearing down all the hills around here, which they're currently doing (and will continue to do, even if Magic Mountain closes).

189 a really good friend of mine recently moved out there, i'm gonna have to ask him

Why does it seem that the Padre games are never on DirectTV Extra Innings?

196

i'm gonna have to go before they close it down, i havent been there in about 7 years.

From Die Hard: With a Vengeance (on right now): "What is 21 out of 42?"

Bob?

198 They generally play on a local channel, rather than a regional sports network, which EI requires.

173, 193

Bob, both of those posts consisted almost entirely of one-sentence paragraphs. I think you have accidentally internalized Bill Plaschke.

Put down the LA Times, and back away slowly from the sports page. There's still hope.

200 As I recall, they don't solve that water jug question correctly, but the bomb diffuses anyway. That nagged at me when I was in the theater, but then I forgot about it.

200
Chester Arthur out of Bill Clinton?

199 I don't think they have actually announced that they are closing. The newspapers just need something to talk about now that the school district has opened its new school on land inhabited by endangered toads. Not many interesting things happen out here...

200 I'm looking out my window right now at the building that blows up in Die Hard. But that's a different movie and therefore not pertinent. Sorry.

Bob Melvin is not starting his Chris Young to face Bruce Bochy's Chris Young.

i haven't been able to read DT (or any other blogs) thoroughly or regularly of late, but did anyone take note of the michael ventre article a couple of weeks ago, where he says that although the dodgers have no power, it's okay because they can somehow magically time their home runs to come at critical moments? they're unable to hit them in normal game situations, but maybe they pop a can of spinach when it's close and late. he also calls julio lugo a "trouper", haha.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14362678/

208
At least he used the right spelling for "trouper."

205

i hope not, it's a California staple if you ask me, i hope the town of Valencia works something out with the Magic Mountain "people"

BOOM! Ryan Howard blasts one over the CF wall in RFK to give the Phils a 9-3 lead over Sam DC's Nats.

Things will get very interesting if he hits another, oh, 14 or so this year...

[209] or his editor did.

Bonds just hit his 2nd meaningless home run of the game.

210
The Magic Mountain property is owned by a company headed by Washington NFL owner Daniel Snyder. He wants to make money. Lots and lots of money.

208

the '87 Cardinals didn't have many either.

211 Wife and son are there.

If the Red Sox have to field their current lineup much more, they can kiss their post season chances good bye. Rather than Ortiz and Manny batting 3-4, they have Loretta and Youkilis. They're even playing Ortiz's and Manny's respective positions.

203 I noticed that too -- the jugs aren't evenly ful when they start pouring them around. Alas.

Phils have loaded the bases w/no outs in DC -- turning into a real drubbing.

And I'll hear a 15 minute half-real half-fantasized description of it all when family gets home.

And the Phils' amazing non-clutchitude gets them out of the jam with no runs. Sweet.

Sam, make sure you ask them which number President won the race tonight!

208 My goodness that's a terrible article.

214

do you think there's an outside shot, Magic Mountain can servive Daniel Snyder?

any Ramon Martinez sightings? i haven't seen him play in about 2 to 3 weeks.