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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Horton Hears a Boo
2007-07-28 15:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

I offered my own take at SI.com on what will happen if Barry Bonds breaks the all-time homer record in Los Angeles next week.

"The Boos Heard 'Round the World" could come as soon as Tuesday in Los Angeles.

Barry Bonds would get booed wearing street clothes at an exhibition game by many Dodgers fans. His stroll to the on-deck circle in a garden-variety regular season contest is met with cascades of catcalls. Every on-field action draws an unequal and over-the-top reaction.

But if Bonds steps into the Dodger Stadium batter's box with the all-time home run record on the line, if Bonds hits the blast that breaks it, the explosion of emotion might transcend anything to precede it.

Whether or not you think the boos are unjustified or just desserts, if Bonds breaks the record in Los Angeles -- or somewhere else outside his San Francisco cocoon -- it's going to be a big memory for baseball and its fans to live with. We'll be stuck with it until Alex Rodriguez or Albert Pujols or some other plucky slugger surpasses Bonds' ultimate career total.

So as much as fans might want to send a message to Bonds, they should be careful not to go too far. They should remember that they'll be part of history, too. ...

You might be surprised by how the column ends. Maybe not - you tell me.

I know the Silent Treatment movement is gaining support, but I still expect the decibels to be off the charts at Dodger Stadium next week.

* * *

Ten days ago, I noted the debut in the Times of "Behind the Lines," a daily gambling column. In a commentary today, former Times sports editor Bill Dwyre had the same reaction I did.

Harken back to those arguments of the majority. I still giggle.

  • People want it.

    Many also want topless women on Page 3, as is done by some London newspapers. When exactly did newspapers stop deciding what people needed, what is good for them, as well as what they want?

  • Everybody gambles.

    Except in Nevada, sports gambling is illegal. If you are the Las Vegas Review-Journal, you run lots of sports gambling news and information. Everywhere else, you are contributing to the misunderstanding and sugarcoating of a possible crime.

  • It is useful information.

    The Pacers by 11 over the Cavaliers in February is useful for no other purpose than to bet. ...

    Thursday morning, we learned about how to bet $100 to make $210 on which NBA player would become rookie of the year next May. We also learned there was a website called Skytowercasino.com, where we can go to learn more.

    Harvey has taken the modernist view that all this gambling stuff is out there, and our responsibility is to address it, not ignore it. That is a persuasive argument.

    Those who drool on themselves, of course, have no modernist views. We can only hope that, while newspapers chase web hits as their current path to survival, they also ponder whether high-minded coverage of stories such as that of (NBA referee Tim) Donaghy, while warranted, also comes off looking slightly hypocritical.

    I guess you can make a case that people who don't bet might still want to know who the favorite in a game is. And I understand that ultimately it's up to the reader to be responsible with the information - that newspapers aren't always the best gatekeepers. In general, however, I just don't see an editorial argument to publish a gambling column in a Los Angeles newspaper. It strikes me as tacit support for an illegal activity. I'm not up in arms about it, but it still surprises me each day that the column's there.

    * * *

    On The Griddle, Bob Timmermann describes a 1971 game in which the Dodgers won on a walk-off catcher's interference call. For me, the most amazing part of it is that the final play began with Manny Mota attempting a straight steal of home with the bases loaded two out and the score tied in the bottom of the 11th.

    "I talked to (third base coach) Danny Ozark," Mota told the Times after the game (according to the game story Timmermann sent me). "He told me to watch the first pitch to see how he was throwing. Then I got the OK from Danny."

    "As slow as (Joe) Gibbon was throwing," Ozark said, "I thought it might be worth a try. Manny did it several times last year. Gibbon was pitching very deliberately, taking two pumps and that gives a runner a pretty good advantage."

    Reds catcher Johnny Bench jumped out in front of the plate to catch the pitch, denying batter Willie Crawford a chance to swing the bat and precipitating the catcher's interference call.

    * * *

    Scattered thunderstorms are in the forecast for Denver tonight, according to Weather.com.

    Update: Mike Lieberthal will get another chance to start in place of Russell Martin tonight, according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News. Also, Derek Lowe is feeling better.

    * * *

    Tonight's 5:05 p.m. game:

    Gameday

    Retro Gameday

  • Comments (346)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-07-28 15:12:34
    1.   still bevens
    I have tickets for both the 1st and the 2nd. Work might sideline me from one of the two, but I'm going to try to make it to both if I can mostly to see what Barry does. I might cheer or boo, depending on my mood, but I think it would be lame of me to not go to the game when I had an opportunity.
    2007-07-28 15:14:29
    2.   Megaballs
    Trade deadline thoughts

    Is it possible that Ned thinks D Young can be a 4th OF in LA making Ethier expendable?

    Ned has 2b options beyond Kent in 2009 of Betemit, Abreu, Dewitt, Denker....making someone available in a trade. Any insight into how Ned and Logan feel about those four...especially Betemit or Abreu as longer-term solutions at 2b?

    2007-07-28 15:18:25
    3.   underdog
    I'd support the silent treatment over active booing of Bonds, certainly. I'm not sure how I'd react if I was there, but I am pretty sure I wouldn't boo. Whatever you think of Bonds - and while I don't like him personally, I think, with or without steroids, he's one of the greatest hitters I've ever seen - breaking the record deserves more respect than disrespect. Or at the very least, protest it by being silent, but to be negative is to disgrace, to sully, yourself as much as Bonds. Rise above it, I say. Anyway, if I'm there, I'd probably politely cheer. If I caught the ball, I sure wouldn't throw it back, either - but that's partially for selfish reasons. ;-)
    2007-07-28 15:23:46
    4.   Michael Green
    I would agree with Underdog that whatever I think of Bonds, he deserves respect for a magnificent accomplishment, tainted though it may be. I also think that just because Dodger fans think someone--i.e., Bonds--has no class, that doesn't mean Dodger fans should have no class. Remember the old saying, that at Ebbets Field, the fans were merciless toward the opposition, but they respected great plays and great players.

    By the way, I also think Jon's article was great. I do offer a minor beef: Piazza was traded against his will, yes, but I seem to recall him declining a very nice contract offer earlier in the season that would have kept him a Dodger and in clover for a long time. That doesn't mean he should have been booed, but he also wasn't an entirely heroic figure in the whole mess with Fox and that trade.

    2007-07-28 15:27:18
    5.   Jon Weisman
    4 - "That doesn't mean he should have been booed, but he also wasn't an entirely heroic figure in the whole mess with Fox and that trade."

    I agree with that. I mean, I don't begrudge him for turning down the contract extension offer, nor was I happy that he turned it down. But booing him is just bizarre.

    2007-07-28 15:27:30
    6.   Curtis Lowe
    I will boo. I will not feel guilty for booing. Bonds represents a time in baseball that made me stop playing baseball. He represents why most kids at my high school felt they had to do steroids to compete.

    Bonds is a giant. Bonds will be boo'd accordingly.

    2007-07-28 15:37:10
    7.   trainwreck
    I think Bonds will revel in being booed. Bonds seems to have that me against the world attitude and I think in his mind booing only proves him right and proves his greatness.

    I frankly do not know what I would do if I were at the game. The only time I can remember booing is when I was sitting behind the Tucson Sidewinders (D-Backs AAA) dugout and I booed Albert Callaspo everytime he came to bat, because he assaulted his girlfriend.

    I guess I would probably just be watching intently to see if anyone does anything stupid.

    2007-07-28 15:41:19
    8.   sanchez101
    Can anyone explain how Green or Piazza gets booed, but Derek Fisher (who signed for a large offer from a loosing team as a free agent, as opposed to being traded) gets a standing ovation upon returning in another teams colors? Like Jon said, people still treated Fernando well? Why?

    My only explanation is that Valenzuela, like Fisher, won a championship and makes people remember a better era. Piazza and Green, on the other hand, make people remember the Fox/Malone years and that comes with a lot of negative conotations(sp?). My guess is that when they're booing Piazza or Green, they are really booing an era in Dodger history rather than the individual.

    Does that make any sense?

    2007-07-28 15:43:14
    9.   TheDictator
    I had a recent conversation with a my college roomate about why he no longer watches baseball. He stopped watching after the last strike.

    In my attempts to explain to him why baseball players need a union (esp. in light of the history of this great pastime) for protection against shady owners etc., I realized why I, if I had the opportunity, would boo Barry if he broke the record at Dodger Stadium.

    I began watching baseball as kid. I had my heroes (Kirk Gibson, Orel Hershiser, Fernando Valenzuela etc) and I also had my hated list (Jack Clark, Kevin Mitchell, Barry Bonds, etc). I think it is this heroes and hated mentality that makes us as fans love baseball.

    Baseball is a catharsis. We need our heroes and hated. It is this cathartic love of the game that drove me to read books like Bill James, Moneyball, the Baseball Economist etc. It is this love that will drive me to boo Barry.

    I think the silent treatment should not be followed. It is denying the fundamental reality that brings catharsis. Let Barry Bonds be the hated (I do advocate disliking him as a player within the bounds of the law)

    Anyway, I am now rambling . . .

    2007-07-28 15:43:24
    10.   sanchez101
    7. Bonds loves the booing at Dodger stadium. I just wonder if he wants his career's defining moment (remember he didn't win a ring, haha) coming amind the Dodger fan's boos. It'd be nice if he just sat out the whole series to avoid hitting the homerun here.
    2007-07-28 15:43:41
    11.   Bluebleeder87
    I'm with Jon on this. But i have to be really honest if i were in a different stange in my life i'd probably boo my little heart out witch i guess means i'll understand the booing.
    2007-07-28 15:44:16
    12.   trainwreck
    8
    The Lakers won championships with Derek Fisher.

    The crowd at Laker games is a lot different than the crowd at Dodger games.

    2007-07-28 15:46:15
    13.   Curtis Lowe
    12 - Umm it's pretty much the same crowd.
    2007-07-28 15:46:26
    14.   Jon Weisman
    8 - That's a compelling theory.
    2007-07-28 15:46:30
    15.   underdog
    With thunderstorms in the forecast in Denver today, I can only hope - given the Dodgers' recent bad luck with pitchers, that, like, Takashi Saito doesn't get struck by lightning or something. {knock on wood}
    2007-07-28 15:46:38
    16.   NorCalDodger
    8 Plus, remember that there were a lot of bigger villians when he left. Shaq, Kobe, Buss...

    I'm either going to boo my mind out, or just stand up and go to the bathroom or the concession stands.

    2007-07-28 15:47:31
    17.   sanchez101
    12. that's true about laker games.

    I went to several dodger game every year as a kid, but didn't go to a laker game for the first time 'till recently, and it is a different environment, it didn't compare to a game against the Giants in DS. Then again, I was there for a Buck's game.

    2007-07-28 15:48:21
    18.   trainwreck
    No way. The price of the tickets alone changes the demographics of who attends, plus Laker games are much more a "scene" if you will. People just go because it is the cool thing to do.
    2007-07-28 15:48:54
    19.   Jon Weisman
    13 - I think it's a different crowd. Maybe it's changing, but I think because of the ticket prices at Staples, it tends to be a more upscale crowd.

    Not that the Laker crowd doesn't boo when the team is down.

    2007-07-28 15:52:43
    20.   sanchez101
    Do celebrities boo? I can see some booing, but others, I don't know. Is it a fashion thing, like sometimes booing is 'in' and sometimes it's out of style?
    2007-07-28 15:53:00
    21.   Curtis Lowe
    From what I've seen is that pretty much every Dodger fan I know is also a Laker fan and that's quite a few people.

    Maybe people just look friendlier in Yellow & Purple than they do in Blue and White.

    2007-07-28 15:53:44
    22.   still bevens
    Ty Wiggington and the Dodgers will no longer be linked in trade rumors as he is now an Astro. Godspeed.
    2007-07-28 15:55:15
    23.   trainwreck
    21
    It is true that many people are fans of both teams, but they may not necessarily attend the games.
    2007-07-28 15:55:26
    24.   TheDictator
    21
    Amazingly, growing up in Southwest Ohio has made me into a Dodger and Laker fan. So, I guess your hypothesis is confirmed.
    2007-07-28 15:55:52
    25.   Jon Weisman
    21 - Many Dodger fans are Laker fans, but that doesn't mean the same crowd goes to see both in person. With Staples holding 40 percent of the Dodger Stadium capacity and playing half as many games, while charging more for games, it's almost as if the most likely Staples attendee is just the Field and Loge Level people - not the reserved or outfield pavilion people.
    2007-07-28 15:56:13
    26.   Bluebleeder87
    20

    I've seen Spike Lee do some bizzare (sp)things on ESPN highlights. Jack Nichols isn't a slouch either from what i've seen. I could be wrong.

    2007-07-28 15:56:18
    27.   Jon Weisman
    Trainwreck is just too quick for me today!
    2007-07-28 15:56:22
    28.   mankatododger
    One radio fool from flyover country explained this morning that the "laid back West Coast fans" of LA and San Diego would be the best places after SF for Barry to break it. He is sure they will all stand up cheering for Bonds.
    2007-07-28 15:57:01
    29.   TheDictator
    BTW,

    Is a trade for Texiera (sp) in the works for the Dodgers? It seems that Colletti would have to be crazy to ship Loney and . . . to Texas for this guy.

    2007-07-28 15:57:03
    30.   underdog
    Besides Jon's fine piece on the subject, you should check out this other piece on how to react to Bonds' breaking the record:
    http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/07/how-to-grieve-n.html

    And one thing to do is consider Sadaharu Oh's record of 868 the real record. And thus it's safe.
    (So says Mark Joseph:
    http://tinyurl.com/2f8r2g)

    2007-07-28 15:57:18
    31.   trainwreck
    I like how the deals so far today involve bad teams getting players.
    2007-07-28 15:58:05
    32.   sanchez101
    One thing to possibly think about, in regards to booing in baseball as opposed to other sports, is that in baseball the players are just standing there for 15-20 minutes at a time or more. Im not sure there is an equivalent in other sports to standing a controversial figure under a couple hundred drunk left field pavilion fans for 15-20 minutes at a time.

    It's a great experience, btw, to be in the pavilion when Bonds plays. It's difficult not to boo him - I mean, he's standing right there.

    2007-07-28 15:58:13
    33.   underdog
    29 As has been discussed here at great length this past week, in a word: No. Even Evan Grant and some of the other rumor-mongers have basically started to admit the Dodgers are not in the Teixera-sweepstakes.
    2007-07-28 15:59:13
    34.   still bevens
    Phil Garner must hate Chris Burke. They have Biggio and now Wiggington blocking him at 2B.
    2007-07-28 15:59:31
    35.   Mark Linsey
    A friend and I both agreed that if we caught a Bonds home run ball, even if it were 755 or 756, we would throw it back.
    2007-07-28 15:59:59
    36.   Curtis Lowe
    Hmmm I seem to remember these same high class Laker fans having multiple riots.
    Those must have been the games they let the poor people attend.
    2007-07-28 16:00:39
    37.   trainwreck
    32
    In addition, it is much harder to be heard individually at football and basketball games.
    2007-07-28 16:02:02
    38.   TheDictator
    9
    An addendum:

    Booing Barry Bonds if he hits the homer at Dodger Stadium would give Bud Selig exactly what he wants. The record tainted with replay after replay after replay with loud overbearing boos.

    Such a replay would capture the Zeitgeist of this baseball era.

    2007-07-28 16:03:31
    39.   sanchez101
    31. What is going on? The sports world is making less and less sense lately ...

    29. All the buzz I've heard is that the Dodger's would rather commit to Loney as their 1B going forward. The only rumor that the Dodgers seemed really connected to was for Dotel. Hopefully he'll end up in a Red's uni, or resigning with the Royals.

    2007-07-28 16:03:34
    40.   TheDictator
    33

    Thank you.

    I don't have the time to read every thread or post on this site. I appreciate the insight and patience.

    2007-07-28 16:03:53
    41.   trainwreck
    36
    I thought that was just people coming to the stadium parking lot and celebrating.
    2007-07-28 16:04:21
    42.   Jon Weisman
    36 - If you think that's what I'm implying, it's not.

    We can disagree on this - I just have felt a different vibe at every Laker game I've attended. It does feel more like a scene.

    2007-07-28 16:04:22
    43.   trainwreck
    celebrating aka rioting
    2007-07-28 16:04:24
    44.   NorCalDodger
    35 I don't know. I'd burn it. And then throw it back at Bonds when he's in the outfield.
    2007-07-28 16:05:03
    45.   Branch Rickey
    I hope everyone here will tune into Ripken's speech tomorrow. If anyone ever doubted the nice things I said about a certain former hitting coach, Ripken's words are guaranteed to be a stronger endorsement than I could muster. Plus, he's.... ya know... Cal Ripken.
    2007-07-28 16:06:50
    46.   Jon Weisman
    Tony Jackson's latest:

    "Russell Martin is NOT starting tonight. ``Lieberthal was ready to go,'' Grady said. ``I think two days for Russ and another one on Monday might get him right back to where he needs to be (with his stiff lower back). I see a different look on his face today (after not playing Friday).'' ... Also, D-Lowe's bullpen session was pushed back a day because the off-day made it less urgent that he start as scheduled on Tuesday, even though Grady hasn't officially ruled him out of that game. Lowe did throw in a pitching motion off flat ground and said he felt ``100 times better than yesterday.'' ... Still no news on Randy Wolf, but you can take it to the bank he'll do at least one more rehab start."

    2007-07-28 16:08:35
    47.   Branch Rickey
    I like the idea of the silent treatment of Bonds but it will never happen (see prisoner's dilemma). You can't even keep a stadium completely quiet for a moment of silence when someone dies. Cooperation among 40,000 people couldn't happen even if it was pre-decided. In this case, the silence of some would only accentuate the reaction of the others.
    I'd clap politely but not vigorously.
    2007-07-28 16:10:23
    48.   trainwreck
    I just hope he hits it this weekend, so this can all be moot.
    2007-07-28 16:11:49
    49.   sanchez101
    47. I want to see Bonds booed vigerously(sp?) just to break the stereotype that west coast fans are too laid back to care. People will keep on saying that of course, but at least we could have a great, obvious, and well known counter point.
    2007-07-28 16:13:03
    50.   sanchez101
    What about if every pitcher just walked him from here on out and he never hit another homerun? The players and coach's seem to respect him too much to 'blackball' him like that, though.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-07-28 16:14:12
    51.   Robert Daeley
    I LOL'd (L'dOL?) at the idea (I can't recall where I read it now, perhaps here) of drawing an asterisk on the ball with a Dodger Blue Sharpie, then throwing it back.
    2007-07-28 16:15:35
    52.   Branch Rickey
    49. I'd rather be called laid back than obnoxious and petty. Guess that's why I live in Los Angeles. And you're right, he is respected by players and coach's. And I think his ability should be by the fans as well.
    2007-07-28 16:17:27
    53.   oswald
    4 "he deserves respect for a magnificent accomplishment, tainted though it may be."

    i'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense to me. that's like saying that you should take your kid out for ice cream after she gets an "a" on a math test even though she cheated. after all, she did get an "a". sure, she would have gotten a b+ if she hadn't cheated, but she wouldn't have gotten the "a" if she hadn't cheated.

    as for me, i think the only appropirate responses range from neutral to negative. he doesn't deserve anything positive for this.

    2007-07-28 16:17:34
    54.   Curtis Lowe
    I guess the only way my stance can be proven is if Bonds is Boo'd at a Laker game.

    one day.

    One day...

    2007-07-28 16:20:02
    55.   Jon Weisman
    50 - I don't think that a good way to comment on Bonds' effect on the integrity of the sport is to trash the integrity of the sport by walking him even when the situation doesn't call for it.
    2007-07-28 16:20:32
    56.   Sam DC
    Good luck Joel Hanrahan, in what I believe is his major league debut right now at Shea.

    His first major league batter faced -- Jose Reyes K'd swinging.

    2007-07-28 16:20:37
    57.   still bevens
    For the love of Pete why is Saenz batting 3rd?
    2007-07-28 16:26:03
    58.   Branch Rickey
    53. But what if you're daughter is the greatest student who ever lived but also may have copied a couple of answers on some exams as well (At a time many other students were doing the same). Should everything she ever accomplished be discounted as meaningless? Should she be banned from all schools and ostracized from society?
    2007-07-28 16:26:05
    59.   we are infinite
    6 and 9 I think I'm on the same page as you. I respect Barry's ability (at least what part of it is natural), but I have zero respect for the man behind the bionic arm brace. Regardless of what types of PEDs he has used or not used, for me he is the worst of the baseball figures who represent the specter of steroids and pass on that bad influence to younger people playing the game. Above all it's his hubris through it all that I find appalling.

    I booed Bonds at an A's-Giants game when he was catching up to Ruth's career mark, and I would boo him just the same at these games.

    And I love the idea of the Dodger-blue asterisk on #756. I'd gladly throw either the tying or record-breaking ball back on the field (of course, what would happen after that is a head-scratcher. Carried off by Dodger fans like a stage-diving rockstar or trampled?).

    The silent treatment would be a nifty trick, but nigh impossible to pull off en masse. "Boo" it shall be for me.

    2007-07-28 16:29:21
    60.   MMSMikey
    my friend (who is a dodger fan, but respects bonds) wants to make a sign for the giant series that says "lay off lamar, the rocket juiced too"
    2007-07-28 16:29:49
    61.   Bluebleeder87
    well it's nice to see both Ethier & Kemp in there tonight, i'd bat Ethier up higher then Kemp at this point but i ain't no manager.
    2007-07-28 16:30:22
    62.   NorCalDodger
    I think the bigger question should be whether DS PA system itself gives the silent treatment or acknowledges the achievement.
    2007-07-28 16:35:12
    63.   Bluebleeder87
    62

    The PA system will definitely acknowledge Bonds accomplishment it just wouldn't be prudent if they didn't.

    2007-07-28 16:35:25
    64.   oswald
    58

    bonds wasn't the greatest hitter who ever lived until he started using performance enhancing drugs. he was a great player who was hall-of-fame bound. but remember, fans didn't even vote him onto the all-century team.

    yes, other players used performance enhancing drugs, and i support banning them from the hall of fame (i think many fans assume that it's a player's right to go into the hall should read its charter - the player's integrity is supposed to be a factor). i think bonds should get the same treatment as palmeiro, sosa and mcgwire.

    saying that bonds breaking aaron's record should be rejected is not the same as rejecting everything he's done. i think he should get full credit as the first 500-500 man. that alone would have gotten him into the hall. by using steroids to break baseball's most important record, he placed himself above the game and shouldn't be honored by the game.

    i don't support banning bonds from society, but i would note that some schools expel students for cheating.

    2007-07-28 16:36:03
    65.   Jon Weisman
    62 - Unless you know about some of Bonds' home runs being stricken from the record over the next few days, how could the Dodgers not note the achievement? Though for Dodger Stadium, that stuff tends to be done on the scoreboard, not by the PA.
    2007-07-28 16:36:28
    66.   NorCalDodger
    Ok, let me rephrase. Do they make a simple acknowledgement, or do they do something a bit more over the top?
    2007-07-28 16:37:32
    67.   Jon Weisman
    66 - No, I don't think there will be confetti or Celine Dion.
    2007-07-28 16:38:09
    68.   Robert Daeley
    58 Well, she certainly shouldn't be taken out for ice cream.

    Just for the record, I don't support taking Barry Bonds out for ice cream either.

    2007-07-28 16:38:18
    69.   jasonungar07
    That arm/elbow padding of his pisses me off more than the roids. If I was there I would be silent. I am not a booer.
    2007-07-28 16:40:10
    70.   goofus
    Just "moon" him...
    2007-07-28 16:40:58
    71.   NorCalDodger
    I'm personally just fine with all 56K Dodger fans booing him so hard that you can't even hear Bud Selig congradulating him on TV.
    2007-07-28 16:42:30
    72.   Bluebleeder87
    66

    You know what though once the PA guy does the simple acknowledgment it's gonna rouse up the crowd even more! it's gonna be interesting what happens that's for sure.

    ps if it happens at Dodger Stadium.

    2007-07-28 16:42:53
    73.   Branch Rickey
    64. I buy most of that. I politely applaud his career but I guess I agree that specifically breaking the record is likely due to streroids so perhaps I'd support silence for that. I would vote him into the Hall because although character is taken into consideration, the whole package screams HOF.
    2007-07-28 16:43:58
    74.   Bluebleeder87
    by the way Joel Hanrahan (sp) is pitching pretty darn good & just got a triple!
    2007-07-28 16:44:49
    75.   trainwreck
    64
    So would you ban every player from here on out because they could possibly be doing steroids? Because Sammy Sosa has never been tested positive for anything and there is a lot less info regarding him.

    Also, would you go back and ban players who used greenies and other version of speed, because even Willie Mays did that. Would you take out players that doctored the balls?

    2007-07-28 16:44:53
    76.   NorCalDodger
    73 If they couldn't vote Cal Ripken in with a unanimous vote, I don't see Bonds getting in on the first ballot, nor should he, especially since some writers refused to vote for Ripken because he played in the era that Bonds will forever represent.
    2007-07-28 16:46:01
    77.   Branch Rickey
    I wouldn't take Bonds out for ice cream or ice clear. Just too much trouble for everybody.
    2007-07-28 16:48:47
    79.   Branch Rickey
    76. What sports writers do has very little to do with what they should do or what I would do (no offense Jon). I wasn't predicting their actions, I was just saying what I would do.
    2007-07-28 16:50:36
    80.   Curtis Lowe
    75 - The answer to all those questions is yes.

    Sosa got caught using a corked bat which should automatically prohibit hall consideration.

    Whether a low life street rat,busy bodied 50's house wife or professional ball player using meth should be shunned.

    I guess it's blind fanboyism that keeps this kind of behavior going.

    2007-07-28 16:51:32
    81.   Bluebleeder87
    Just "moon" him...

    That's SO beneath me.

    2007-07-28 16:52:17
    82.   Megaballs
    Jon
    I love the site and read it religiously.

    I must say, though, that I'm surprised that we voluntarily picked this subject.
    Boo him when he bats, boo him when he hits it, and never talk about the record.
    Forget about him.

    Let's see what Ned does because I guarantee he's cooking something up...the clock is ticking.

    2007-07-28 16:53:48
    83.   trainwreck
    80
    I am fine with that. As long as there is consistency.
    2007-07-28 16:53:50
    84.   Megaballs
    Distraction from the obvious maybe...?
    2007-07-28 16:54:40
    85.   Branch Rickey
    Hmmm... Apparently the first stone casters are in the house.
    2007-07-28 16:55:47
    86.   oswald
    75 yes, if a player achieved career numbers that make him eligible for the hall of fame (i.e. 500 homers, 3000 hits), those numbers should be discounted and he shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

    i also don't think you need a positive test or proof beyond a reasonable doubt to ban a player from the hall of fame. this isn't a criminal trial and nobody's going to jail. again, no one has a right receive baseball's highest honor (see pete rose). i think if it's clear from the circumstances, eye witness accounts, and the player's conduct that he used steroids, that is sufficient to ban him from the hall of fame.

    i've never seen any evidence that greenies and speed have a substantial impact on a player's numbers. they also had no effect on the natural decline that players experience over time. they certainly did not have the effect that steroids do.

    2007-07-28 16:59:58
    87.   Bluebleeder87
    Joel Hanrahan kind of has a slimmer Zambrano type body, He throws Bee Bee's also 93-96 from what i've seen so far.
    2007-07-28 17:00:16
    88.   we are infinite
    82 As underdog mentioned in the last thread, I wonder if the Dodgers are looking at Cordero from the Nationals.. Sounds like the Nats would definitely consider trading him (or Rauch, for that matter). Wonder if the asking price would be something we could afford. Lord knows the Nats have a lot of gaps to fill.
    2007-07-28 17:08:50
    89.   silverwidow
    Vin said Jeff Francis was 22 and came up to the Rockies three years ago.

    He's 26.

    2007-07-28 17:11:44
    90.   Bluebleeder87
    Furcals is basically just playing good D for us cause he ain't hitting much these days.
    2007-07-28 17:12:34
    91.   CanuckDodger
    87 -- Bluebleeder, thanks for the updates on Hanrahan. Please keep them coming. He was of course one of what certain people called the "Canuck 5," so I am really hoping luck starts going his way.
    2007-07-28 17:16:27
    92.   Bluebleeder87
    91

    if you don't mind me asking who did we trade for him?

    2007-07-28 17:17:10
    93.   Vishal
    that was all on pierre's noodle arm.
    2007-07-28 17:17:20
    94.   Vishal
    nevermind.
    2007-07-28 17:17:32
    95.   max power
    ugh.
    2007-07-28 17:17:39
    96.   SoSG Orel
    Why isn't Loney in the lineup, especially after an off-day? I'm worried about a trade.
    2007-07-28 17:18:03
    97.   Bluebleeder87
    it was right down the middle also.
    2007-07-28 17:18:13
    98.   MMSMikey
    seems like a lot of hollidays homeruns hit the top of the fence in RF
    2007-07-28 17:19:38
    99.   oswald
    96 i didn't even think of that. omg, please, no! i don't even like texeira.
    2007-07-28 17:20:20
    100.   Vishal
    [96] probably just trying to get olmedo some at-bats, and we're facing a lefty.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-07-28 17:21:34
    101.   SoSG Orel
    100 I hope so.
    2007-07-28 17:21:55
    102.   Gen3Blue
    I'd say we are conceding, resting Martin and Loney on the same day. It might make sense to concede once a rotation
    2007-07-28 17:22:45
    103.   MMSMikey
    jesus nomar.
    2007-07-28 17:22:50
    104.   Eric Enders
    The Google Ad on Jeff Francis' BB-Ref page asks: "How many runs will Barry score when he hits his 154th HR? Vote now!"

    Huh?

    2007-07-28 17:23:00
    105.   Megaballs
    Loney vs O Saenz

    LHP Francis

    2007

    vs LH .222 BA and 1.0 WHIP
    vs RH .303 BA and 1.5 WHIP

    Not necessarily a trade.

    2007-07-28 17:23:21
    106.   SoSG Orel
    102 I wonder what Tomko thinks about that.
    2007-07-28 17:23:43
    107.   MMSMikey
    this umpire has a big zone
    2007-07-28 17:24:18
    108.   SoSG Orel
    105 Thanks. Let's hear it for overreacting!
    2007-07-28 17:24:39
    109.   Gen3Blue
    96 I'll never breathe a deeper sigh of relief than wednesday if we make no trades.
    These announcers are giving me hope. They could easily blow this game with their chatter.
    2007-07-28 17:25:06
    111.   SoSG Orel
    Although Loney does like Coors Field....
    2007-07-28 17:27:47
    114.   CanuckDodger
    92 -- We didn't trade Hanrahan. He left as a minor league free agent. After six years of minor league service, any player who is not on his team's 40-man roster becomes a free agent. Some of these players re-sign with the clubs that already have them. In Hanrahan's case, the Nationals offered to put him on their 40-man roster if he would sign with them instead of re-signing with the Dodgers, and since the Dodgers were not willing to commit a spot on the 40-man roster for him, Hanrahan wisely chose to go to the Nationals.
    2007-07-28 17:28:06
    115.   Dodgers49
    70. 50,000 fans mooning Barry Bonds. I just can't see it. :-)
    2007-07-28 17:28:28
    116.   NorCalDodger
    107 I'm sure Tomko would disagree that the ump has a large strike zone.
    2007-07-28 17:29:06
    118.   Bluebleeder87
    if Tomko keeps leaving those floeters up there it's gonna be a long night, THERE IT GOES!
    2007-07-28 17:29:09
    119.   max power
    boooooooooo.
    2007-07-28 17:29:35
    120.   we are infinite
    Hanrahan after 5: 0 ER, 1 H, 1 BB, 4 K
    2007-07-28 17:29:35
    121.   Vishal
    bombko strikes again.
    2007-07-28 17:30:15
    123.   Gen3Blue
    Could Tomko ever throw a ball below the belt? He might be suprised how well it worked.
    2007-07-28 17:30:30
    124.   Michael D
    89

    Considering he still looks 14, that's a slip up I can forgive.

    2007-07-28 17:32:21
    125.   Gen3Blue
    Wow, that was high too. Another bomb coming!
    2007-07-28 17:32:39
    126.   autumnlanding
    i hate bret bombko

    i hate him i hate him i hate him

    but i LOVE "mad men"

    2007-07-28 17:32:57
    127.   max power
    Can we get some rain please?
    2007-07-28 17:32:58
    128.   MMSMikey
    story of your life, brett, story of your life.
    2007-07-28 17:34:08
    129.   JoeyP
    Tomko should not be in the rotation.
    2007-07-28 17:34:14
    130.   autumnlanding
    bombko sucks sooo bad
    2007-07-28 17:34:32
    131.   MMSMikey
    at least give your team a chance, you are terrible.
    2007-07-28 17:34:51
    132.   ToyCannon
    There is nothing remotely close to a Dodger crowd and a Laker crowd, other then the fact that they both live in Los Angeles.

    I've been to hundreds of basketball games and never witnessed a fight and I'll see a fight every time I go to Dodger stadium. There are no police in every aisle at Staples, just simple ushers who have no problem keeping the crowd in order. When you only have the capacity for 20,000, fan control is a piece of cake compared to what they have to do at Dodger stadium. I could wear a Celtic jersey and get booed and taunted but I would never get anything thrown at me. If I wore a Giant jersey the least that would happen to me is to have something thrown at me. Dodger fans who go to DS are ignorant of their history, Laker fans can still recite the starting lineup of the 1st Los Angeles Laker championship team. I could go on and on but I'll stop.

    2007-07-28 17:35:56
    134.   Gen3Blue
    I can see how Colletti could trade the next five years for a pitcher. But I hope he just chills out.
    2007-07-28 17:36:41
    135.   max power
    well the good news is that hendrickson should be available for relief...
    2007-07-28 17:37:19
    136.   Curtis Lowe
    132 - Yeh, Riots.

    Stay classy.

    2007-07-28 17:38:04
    137.   Gen3Blue
    I hope the D's flog the ball. I don't care about the game anymore, just this annoying announcer.
    2007-07-28 17:38:28
    139.   NorCalDodger
    this wouldn't be as bad if the hitters weren't content with just merely grounding out.
    2007-07-28 17:39:51
    140.   Bluebleeder87
    It seems like the Dodgers last 5 minutes batting while the Rox are up there 30 minutes it seems.
    2007-07-28 17:40:02
    141.   Dodgers49
    All is not lost. This is Coors, after all. I seem to remember us coming from behind here in the past.
    2007-07-28 17:41:44
    142.   Bluebleeder87
    TC is Jack Nicholson well behaved at games or was i way off on my statement?
    2007-07-28 17:42:01
    143.   ToyCannon
    Johan is dealing in Cleveland.
    2007-07-28 17:44:00
    145.   D4P
    Francis is dealing in Denver.
    2007-07-28 17:44:28
    147.   Bluebleeder87
    143

    Joel Hanrahan is also dealing in NY, he's got the Metropolitans shut down so far.

    2007-07-28 17:46:09
    148.   Curtis Lowe
    144,146 - As he should. As he should...
    2007-07-28 17:46:34
    149.   NorCalDodger
    You know, I want to be patient. But the point when I start wanting to screw the future and make some trades is getting very, very close.
    2007-07-28 17:47:33
    150.   CanuckDodger
    132 -- How much do tickets cost for Laker games compared to tickets for Dodger games? A lot more, I'm sure. It's all about economic "class." There is a reason why the bad behavior at baseball games happens in the cheap seats. That is where the riff-raff sit. Riff-raff can't afford Laker games.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2007-07-28 17:48:09
    151.   MMSMikey
    how bad is this umps zone?
    2007-07-28 17:51:49
    152.   Curtis Lowe
    150 - So the poor are riff raff? I've seen fights at Laker games and I've seen fights at Dodger games. The fans are the same. It's only more evident at Dodger games because there are more fans in attendance thus making it much more likely for a fight to break out.
    2007-07-28 17:51:56
    153.   Bluebleeder87
    151

    I love it it's HUGE! but it looks like not even this up can help Tomko

    2007-07-28 17:53:13
    154.   Bluebleeder87
    150,152

    human behavior is human behavior, stop it with that.

    2007-07-28 17:53:18
    155.   NorCal-Dodger
    Unfortunately with all of our injuries to our SP's, looks like Bombko and Hendy are here to stay, at least for this year. Unless, Ned unloads our kids for a decent SP.

    As far as Bonds goes, hope the freak show is over with by Sunday. Rather not see him become the new *HR King* at our yard. Really would wonder how Vin would describe the call, as he has stated in the past he would prefer to have nothing to do with this. Hopefully it will not come to this.

    2007-07-28 17:53:31
    156.   imperabo
    Thank God Pierre didn't get that or the runner would have gone to third.
    2007-07-28 17:54:17
    157.   Bluebleeder87
    153

    that should be this "Ump can't help Tomko"

    2007-07-28 17:56:09
    158.   MMSMikey
    seriously, if we want to get back in this game the offence needs to wake up this inning and get s couple runs back.
    2007-07-28 17:56:10
    159.   underdog
    Rain, rain, rain, rain (sung to the tune of the "Spam" song from Monty Python).

    Can we trade Tomko for Hanrahan, two hours ago?

    Btw, 40 No worries, Dictator, I figured you hadn't been around much last couple of days. I'm just personally weary of Teixera trade talk and look forward to the deadline passing next week like I would a gallstone, once it's over.

    And yeah, I'm still curious about Cordero. Of course, right now it still looks like the Dodgers could use more starting pitching depth if anything.

    2007-07-28 17:57:19
    160.   imperabo
    Can you imagine the comedy of an ump who was beholden to the mob to make Tomko win to settle a gambling debt. I think there's a movie deal there.
    2007-07-28 17:57:39
    161.   NorCalDodger
    You know what I realized, though? Being a Dodger fan, right now, is still better than being an Angels fan. I would shoot myself and tell people to desecrate my body if I were an Angels fan.
    2007-07-28 17:58:49
    162.   D4P
    Furcal breaks up the no-no with a bunt single, also breaking an unspoken rule in the process.
    2007-07-28 17:59:51
    164.   D4P
    If Pierre gets on base an awful lot, why does he have to sacrifice bunt so much...?
    2007-07-28 18:00:15
    166.   we are infinite
    159 True about Hanrahan, although unfortunately he gave up 3 earned runs in the bottom of the sixth and the game is tied up, but we shall see what happens next!
    2007-07-28 18:00:23
    167.   underdog
    162 I feel like if it's the 7th or 8th inning it breaks the unspoken rule, if it's the 3rd inning it's the no-hitter that should be unspoken. Don't see it as much of a problem.

    So I missed the first 2 innings (and will miss most of the rest of it) - has Tomko not pitched as badly as the score would indicate?

    2007-07-28 18:00:27
    168.   MMSMikey
    oh the tomato, what happened to him.
    2007-07-28 18:00:51
    169.   underdog
    Saenz looked truly awful in that at bat. I'm hoping he's just a rusty tomato can.
    2007-07-28 18:04:17
    175.   NorCalDodger
    Hey Nomar, just so you know, you're actually playing at Dodger Stadium. Think it, believe it.
    2007-07-28 18:05:05
    176.   CanuckDodger
    152 -- The poor who start fights and throw things at other fans (and players) ARE riff-raff. The poor who don't do those things aren't. And again, where are the fights and other forms of disorderly behavior in the sections with expensive seats?
    2007-07-28 18:06:01
    177.   max power
    tomko's pitching like tomko, saenz is hitting like saenz, and the general feel is pretty much the same as it always is when martin sits...
    2007-07-28 18:07:11
    178.   Bluebleeder87
    {167}

    He's leaving his off speed pitches, curveball (i don't know what it is) up & he's leaving the fastballs right down the middle but seems to have settled down some in the last inning.

    2007-07-28 18:09:35
    181.   underdog
    Those of you who were worried that the Dodgers might try to acquire Ty Wiggington can exhale - he was traded tonight to the Astros for reliever Chad Wheeler.

    And with that, I bid you good night. Hope the Dodgers come back.

    2007-07-28 18:10:26
    182.   MMSMikey
    ok boys lets get 2 back this inning
    2007-07-28 18:11:44
    183.   Bluebleeder87
    176

    I've seen Mark Cuban wanna start fights also.

    2007-07-28 18:13:53
    184.   Bluebleeder87
    something tells me Joeyp is up to no good today.
    2007-07-28 18:15:02
    186.   blue22
    181 - Dan Wheeler (not Chad Qualls), but yeah what a weird trade. How often do two "sellers" exchange trade pieces for one another?
    2007-07-28 18:15:12
    187.   MMSMikey
    OMG that 1st pitch to ethier 6 inches outside
    2007-07-28 18:15:16
    188.   Bluebleeder87
    ouch, if it's close you gotta swing Kemp come one.
    2007-07-28 18:17:40
    189.   MMSMikey
    ugh, that sucked.
    2007-07-28 18:18:08
    190.   Bluebleeder87
    we can thank the humidor for that ball going out not.
    2007-07-28 18:19:47
    191.   MMSMikey
    how did that ball not even make it to the warning track?
    2007-07-28 18:22:44
    192.   Bluebleeder87
    you know what though if Tomko keeps them to 5 runs it's not all that bad, I feel like we can muster up a few more runs.
    2007-07-28 18:26:25
    194.   NorCalDodger
    only four more innings to do that, time's running out...
    2007-07-28 18:31:56
    196.   Bluebleeder87
    pleasant surprises can be cool.
    2007-07-28 18:33:04
    197.   Linkmeister
    Bonds Ks first time up against Willis. Four fastballs, two called strikes, one swinging third strike.
    2007-07-28 18:33:17
    198.   Bluebleeder87
    if I were Grady I'd bring in Hull, we've pressed our luck with Tomko already, it's only 5-1 come on Grady.
    2007-07-28 18:36:32
    200.   MMSMikey
    ok, im seriusly sick of watching juan pierre thrown out by a milimeter of an inch 3 times a game
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2007-07-28 18:37:02
    202.   natepurcell
    it seems like Pierre gets called out alot when he is actually safe.
    2007-07-28 18:38:06
    203.   kegtron
    150 - I've seen plenty of fights in the loge level. Loge ticket prices range from $20 to $65. About half of all Laker tickets cost less than $40. I think some of you guys have a misconception of Laker fans, not all of them sit courtside. Most sit up top, where you've probably never set foot before. Laker games are not exclusive.
    2007-07-28 18:38:26
    205.   NorCalDodger
    Has Tomato even taken a pitch for a ball this season?
    2007-07-28 18:38:35
    206.   Bluebleeder87
    200,201,202

    I guess it's happened Juan to many times this year [drum beat]

    2007-07-28 18:38:48
    207.   trainwreck
    MLBTV just cut out on me. Anyone else having this issue?
    2007-07-28 18:39:36
    208.   trainwreck
    Nevermind, it is back.
    2007-07-28 18:41:48
    210.   CanuckDodger
    202 -- Nate, has there been any more info from Rosenthal or anybody else about trade stff? And what exactly did Rosenthal say about the Dodgers being "out" of the running for Teixeira? I question whether the Dodgers were ever really in it.
    2007-07-28 18:41:56
    211.   ToyCannon
    176
    I sit in the outer Loge for Dodger games which would be considered the riff raff area. The fights at Dodger stadium usually occur in the other loge, outer field box, outer reserve, or pavillion. However ignorant fans sit everywhere. Poor behavior occurs everywhere but it certainly is worse in the outer areas.
    My Laker seats are in the lower section but I've sat all over Staples from the highest seat to the lowest seat and I still contend the fan behavior is quite different. It is not just Lakers because I see many more Clipper games then Laker games and the fans still behave better. I take kids to my Dodger seats with great trepidation. My wife refuses to accompany me to any Dodger/Giant because of how ugly it gets. I've never even thought twice about taking a child to a basketball game at Staples and my wife has never not felt safe at Staples.

    Curtis and I differ on this but that is my opinion.

    2007-07-28 18:42:06
    212.   trainwreck
    So can we not afford to use our bullpen? I am not getting why Tomko is still in this game.
    2007-07-28 18:42:59
    213.   NorCalDodger
    10 pitch inning, gj tom
    2007-07-28 18:43:12
    214.   Bluebleeder87
    Nice catch by Kent hopefully this will be our inning.
    2007-07-28 18:43:46
    215.   Vishal
    hahah nice play from kent.
    2007-07-28 18:44:04
    216.   natepurcell
    210

    it an ingame interview during the Angels game all he said was that the "Dodgers are now out" and its between the Angels and Braves for Tex. He didn't get into specifics.

    2007-07-28 18:44:17
    217.   NorCalDodger
    Wow gameday has Kent all the way in the deep outfield catching that fly. If this is true, where was all this range before?
    2007-07-28 18:44:58
    219.   Vishal
    [212] well... 1) bombko appears to have settled down a bit

    2) we're already pretty far behind and francis has been pitching very well

    3) the bullpen could use the rest

    2007-07-28 18:44:59
    220.   ToyCannon
    203
    The walk up price ranges from 20-45 but the season ticket price is 1/2 that. The outer loge seats come out to 10.00 a seat when you do the buy 2 get 2 free.
    2007-07-28 18:47:40
    224.   trainwreck
    219
    4 runs does not seem like a huge difference to me and we had a rest yesterday and have one on Monday, so it seems to odd to say forget this game.
    2007-07-28 18:48:12
    225.   ToyCannon
    We can still come back and take this game. The Rockie bullpen is nothing to write home about. Corpus has been okay but he's vulnerable.
    2007-07-28 18:48:19
    226.   NorCal-Dodger
    RAlly time!!....
    2007-07-28 18:48:57
    227.   MMSMikey
    c'mon matt stop taking strikes
    2007-07-28 18:49:20
    228.   Vishal
    rockies announcer: "nomar, veteran guy, good power..."

    i know it's hard to continuously keep filling the space with words, but put some thought into it, people.

    2007-07-28 18:49:23
    229.   MMSMikey
    AWFUL at bat
    2007-07-28 18:49:41
    230.   Bluebleeder87
    young Matt Kemp was set up really good in that at bat.
    2007-07-28 18:50:26
    231.   Vishal
    TERRIBLE at-bat from kemp. tsk, tsk.
    2007-07-28 18:51:23
    232.   NorCalDodger
    ethier rules, if only for now
    2007-07-28 18:52:01
    233.   oswald
    have to pinch for lieberthal, right?
    2007-07-28 18:52:10
    234.   we are infinite
    Is there a longer delay than usual on MLB.tv tonight? I didn't see Kemp's strikeout until like a full minute after MMSMikey's comment.

    Or was that a preemptive "awful at bat?" =)

    2007-07-28 18:52:32
    235.   oswald
    guess not
    2007-07-28 18:52:55
    236.   kegtron
    220 - I dont think season ticket holders cause many problems. It's usually the person who goes to a handful of games a year that tend to have one drink too many. That said, if you can afford to go to 4 Dodger games a year, you can afford to go to a couple of Laker games and free parking is easier to find at Staples.
    2007-07-28 18:53:06
    237.   NorCalDodger
    good time for your first homer, mike.
    2007-07-28 18:55:24
    238.   Bluebleeder87
    Russell Martin coming up? who's our ER catcher? this is Colorado Grady, I don't get it.
    2007-07-28 18:55:30
    239.   MMSMikey
    234

    no, that was after he took 2 strikes and swung and missed at a pitch over his head.

    2007-07-28 18:56:45
    240.   MMSMikey
    ugh, have a rally going, a strikeout and 2 weenie popups.
    2007-07-28 18:57:25
    241.   trainwreck
    We really need Martin to find his swing.
    2007-07-28 18:59:29
    242.   ucladodger
    Long time reader, first post here. As for the game, Eddings might have the biggest strike zone in baseball. I dont think Francis has actually thrown a ball in the strike zone to Matt Kemp, but Eddings is giving him the black and then about 6 inches on the outside.
    2007-07-28 19:01:25
    243.   Bluebleeder87
    If it were me I would have rested Martin the whole game, I'm sure it was a hard decision for Grady specially knowing how Martin fairs with runners on.
    2007-07-28 19:01:37
    244.   MMSMikey
    how is bull durahm only 12% on that list?
    2007-07-28 19:07:11
    245.   max power
    Rudy has been looking really bad.
    2007-07-28 19:07:25
    246.   ucladodger
    that pitch was the same hanger Biggio crushed a few days ago
    2007-07-28 19:07:26
    247.   trainwreck
    I think Seanez's season has gone past its due date.
    2007-07-28 19:07:27
    248.   JoeyP
    Seanez has now given up like 6 homers in the last 5 innings.

    He's done.

    DFA him now.

    2007-07-28 19:07:38
    249.   Bluebleeder87
    Seanez missed pretty bad right there that was a shot.
    2007-07-28 19:08:02
    250.   Linkmeister
    Now wait. He struck out the previous two guys, and it took about ten pitches to Helton to do it. I don't call that bad.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2007-07-28 19:09:33
    251.   NorCal-Dodger
    250 Giving up 6HR's in 5 innings of work is very BAD
    2007-07-28 19:10:41
    252.   MMSMikey
    seems like rudy just cant not step in it everytime he goes out there now
    2007-07-28 19:20:43
    253.   Bluebleeder87
    Jeff Francis pitched o.k. he should thank his lucky stars that ump was calling the game today.
    2007-07-28 19:22:56
    254.   NorCal-Dodger
    Unless we pull a miracle in the 9th..the streaking Snakes will be in a mathematical tie with us...Pods and Rox still in the mix.
    2007-07-28 19:24:02
    255.   Icaros
    Whoa.
    2007-07-28 19:25:27
    256.   Bluebleeder87
    254

    the Snakes are giving it the good 'ol college try but they won't be in it in the end. Why is Roberto Hernandez even wearing a Dodger Uni!!?? i'm sorry guys just letting out some steam.

    2007-07-28 19:25:41
    257.   NorCalDodger
    roberto is in, grady definitely has money on the game
    2007-07-28 19:25:51
    258.   NorCal-Dodger
    Harnandez is up...looks like Grady has put up the white flag
    2007-07-28 19:26:17
    259.   Vishal
    nice arm, nomar
    2007-07-28 19:27:58
    260.   Bluebleeder87
    Even with Johnson healthy i never thought the D-Backs had a chance THIS YEAR, but they should be great for years to come right along with us.

    ps Pending any dumb moves from upper management of course.

    2007-07-28 19:32:14
    261.   KAYVMON
    I dont know if you guys have seen this or talked about it, but some guy at a party I was at today gave me a BOYCOTT BARRY.com night mask. Its the type of thing you'd use if you were trying to sleep on a plane.

    I still think everyone should bring a newspaper and pull it out to read everytime his name is mentioned. Because this whole drama is boring.

    2007-07-28 19:33:37
    262.   natepurcell
    this ump is insane with his strike zone.
    2007-07-28 19:34:44
    263.   MMSMikey
    anyone know the record for called strikes in a 9 inning game?
    2007-07-28 19:38:36
    264.   Bluebleeder87
    In my opinion the D-Backs are peaking right now with those 8 wins in a row, but you gotta think the Johnson season ending surgery is gonna hurt the plenty for the long haul.
    2007-07-28 19:43:30
    265.   NorCal-Dodger
    264 Snakes are hot, and they have had Johnson pitch for them, as much as we had Schmidt pitch for us
    2007-07-28 19:44:39
    266.   JoeyP
    The Dbax will probably be in the race until the end bc the Dodgers arent going to run away (they've played .500 ball over the last 55 games or so), and the Padres wont either with the injury to Chris Young.
    2007-07-28 19:45:45
    267.   Jon Weisman
    Yes, Padres put Chris Young on the DL.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2952903

    2007-07-28 19:47:14
    268.   Bluebleeder87
    264

    I guess i'm a little naive but i didn't give them much hope this year i'm sure there gonna be great in the future but for me the Padres are a bigger concern this year.

    2007-07-28 19:48:32
    269.   Jon Weisman
    263 - I'll go with under 162.
    2007-07-28 19:51:23
    270.   Bluebleeder87
    it kind of seems NL West pitchers agreed to get hurt at the same time.
    2007-07-28 19:57:39
    271.   das411
    Just to add my $.02 to the whole Bonds debate, I wonder if any of that polling data exists that shows how opinions split by age. I would venture to guess that there are more than a few fans like me, maybe even here, who have grown up only watching baseball in this so-called "Enhancement Era", and Bonds is without question the greatest home-run hitter, on-base machine, and just overall player I have ever seen.

    We never saw Mr. Aaron play, all of the racial tensions and Aaron passing Ruth mess are just history to us, and whether you consider there to be proof of any "cheating" or not, the fact remains that Barry Bonds will have hit more home runs than any other player in Major League Baseball's history. As far as I'm concerned, I've never seen anybody break the all-time (or single-season) home run records, I've never seen a 43 year old outfielder hit 20+ HRs coming off of two injury-filled seasons, and I don't care if you (looking at you, Mr. Costas) have.

    Everybody will have their own opinions of Bonds, and any other player in this "Enhancement Era". I for one would stand up and cheer...but then again I happen to be a phan of a different team than most of you fine folks too ;)

    2007-07-28 20:05:41
    272.   bojangles
    Underlying: entirely too much reverence for a "game" that should be played more than watched, at any level. "Respect" for the history carelessly written by little boys who should be busy at other things? "Intimidation" by a businessman who sells surrogate lives rather than help build new ones? "Gratitude" because a former Very Good Little Boy, in his twilight, acts as civilly as any other human would be expected to?
    Bonds natural gifts, and his overweening greed and arrogance in their enlargement make him smaller and smaller as all this unfolds. He is a man of no seasons...
    We do not live in court. Thank God, we are not all lawyers.
    The whole notion that 755 is an important number to anyone leaves me befogged. In that sense, many of the folks who don't like Barry have helped him write this unbelievably callow script. I cancelled my MLB video when they insisted on promoting every tedious moment of it...
    Another "moving forward" citing. Please, kill it now...

    Said before All-Star (another aspect I could happily live without - just give the guys a rest - we know who's doing well) break that contris of Penny/Lowe/Saito/Gonzales/Martin would have to be seriously augmented second half by others, since they couldn't be expected to play at so high a level all the way.
    Lowe groined, Penny cramped, Saito wounded,
    Russell befuddled, and Gonzales?
    Looks possible we could have another NL West "champ" in high 80s.
    Opposing announcers talk about the "terrible" year Jason Bay is having for the offensively-challenged Pirates. I note he has RBIs in the mid-60s, while the cleanup hitter for the Ds, in a year when I've seen him described as part of the solution, not the problem, mid-50s. Xavier Nady, another laborer in poor Pitts' town, high-50s. Jeff has been swinging a very nice bat since just before the break, and I wish him well, and still hope he doesn't get/want his 500 at-bats.

    2007-07-28 20:15:21
    273.   Gen3Blue
    260 that probably applies to both teams. I am praying till wednesday.
    2007-07-28 20:15:40
    274.   Bluebleeder87
    Bonds is a great hitter with or with out "Riods" I just hate it that it's him doing it, It's just not fun for me watching HIM break a records i totally respect.
    2007-07-28 20:16:43
    275.   Branch Rickey
    272. I like to imagine bongos playing as I read this post.
    2007-07-28 20:21:33
    276.   Bluebleeder87
    I love the fist pump by Dontrelle when he made Bonds pop up
    2007-07-28 20:22:01
    277.   Gen3Blue
    The most important concept for me is this. As a very long term D's fan it is not important that they do anything this year! They have great potential, don't change it. Shouldn't leading the division for most of the year satisfy a fan base?
    2007-07-28 20:28:40
    278.   Dodgers49
    261. A silent salute to Barry at Dodger Stadium

    >>> Tuesday, as the official BoycottBarry.com Website spells out, the protest moves back to Dodger Stadium, where in the past, ballpark security weren't shy about ejecting any fans wearing the Boycott Barry T-shirts or the Bonds red blindfolds. <<<

    http://tinyurl.com/38g6bq

    2007-07-28 20:29:30
    279.   we are infinite
    Looks like Tony Jackson has another reason to be concerned about stadium elevators:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20016002/

    2007-07-28 20:33:13
    280.   scooplew
    I am late to the discussion today, having just returned from watching the game at a friend's house. I won't express my opinion on Tomko; I've posted that several times previously. . . . As today's game is not worth dwelling on, I have a question for which I don't have an answer. In the inning in which he made two errors, had two putouts and one assist, Garciaparra had a total of five chances. Is that a record for a fielder for one inning? I don't see how it could ever be topped.
    2007-07-28 20:37:06
    281.   Gen3Blue
    280 BT?

    I'm also afraid I saw Tomato unable to catchup with a fastball today.

    2007-07-28 20:48:19
    282.   Bob Timmermann
    Bonds will only bat in the 9th if the Giants have the bases loaded and two outs I believe in a tie game.
    2007-07-28 20:51:14
    283.   trainwreck
    281
    That has happened a lot this year.
    2007-07-28 21:00:56
    284.   we are infinite
    Andy La Roche just hit his 14th homer for Vegas, raising his average to .313.
    2007-07-28 21:02:28
    285.   Bob Timmermann
    Actually Bonds would bat with the bases loaded in a tie game with one out.

    Or two on and two outs.

    2007-07-28 21:03:48
    286.   das411
    282 - I think that was actually OR in a tie game, Bob, consider us even for your catching Jamie Moyer's non-shutout (although he did give up 0 ER) yesterday!
    2007-07-28 21:05:16
    287.   we are infinite
    Whoops, Giants win, haha.
    2007-07-28 21:07:04
    288.   goofus
    Like I said two months ago, Olmedo Saenz is done, stick a fork in him.... DFA him and call up LaRoche.
    2007-07-28 21:23:27
    289.   berkowit28
    Yes, he's done. Occupying space. Maybe he can be added as a fillip to some trade for pitching, or just DFA'd to make room.
    2007-07-28 21:43:45
    290.   CanuckDodger
    LaRoche has hit his 14th home run of the season in a game in Vegas that is still in progress. I think that is his 11th HR in July.

    On the InsideTheDodgers board someone said that somebody named A Martinez reported that the Royals want LaRoche for Dotel, and apparently Martinez said that he would make that trade in a heartbeat.

    2007-07-28 21:46:58
    291.   trainwreck
    Thankfully, Martinez's opinion does not matter.
    2007-07-28 21:49:43
    292.   Gen3Blue
    282,283,284 As I keep checking in with intermitant insomnia from the east coast, we have so much fodder for trades in this tense period, that if we actually trade someone in our plans I will probably explode. We could trade Betemit, Young, Sienz and Martinez for example. Ohhh, help me sleep before wednesday!
    2007-07-28 21:58:13
    293.   natepurcell
    290

    Laroche for Dotel would be a great trade...for the Royals.

    2007-07-28 22:02:29
    294.   trainwreck
    Where would the Royals put LaRoche? 2nd? Anyways, it better not happen!
    2007-07-28 22:16:17
    295.   Hallux Valgus
    294 I'm guessing they'd move Gordon to first. For some reason, all the best hitters get moved to first. Watch- Miggy Cabrera will be a first baseman within three years.

    Still, that trade will never happen. But if it does, I'm slashing Ned's tires.

    2007-07-28 22:28:09
    296.   King of the Hobos
    Denker was back in the lineup today, so he must have been hurt when he was removed yesterday.
    2007-07-28 22:33:36
    297.   Hallux Valgus
    Jon Heyman is reporting that the Yanks are gunning for Gagne and the Dodgers might be hot for Farnsworth.

    I hate trade deadline time.

    2007-07-28 22:37:13
    298.   natepurcell
    i wouldnt mind farnsworth if they gave him to the Dodgers for free.
    2007-07-28 22:37:57
    299.   Xeifrank
    Missed the game today, had family stuff I was busy with. I see that Martin and Loney sat and Tomko didn't get his start skipped with the rainout yesterday. As far as the gambling column in the LA Times, I don't see any problem with it and compared to most of the stuff you see on TV, I don't see what the complaint is. I would read it for entertainment purposes only, or perhaps with something to keep in mind for a trip to Vegas (but I don't gamble or go to Vegas very often). If you think a gambling column on page three sports page of a newspaper is tacit support of an illegal activity then what are rap song lyrics and half the plots of Hollywood TV shows and movies?
    vr, Xei
    2007-07-28 22:39:14
    300.   natepurcell
    why is his K rate so down this year?
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2007-07-28 22:49:54
    301.   heato
    Apologies if this was already posted, but Emil Brown was a little careless in the Royals locker room.

    http://tinyurl.com/37ddao

    2007-07-28 22:53:58
    302.   natepurcell
    Austin Gallagher has been impressive in Odgen. I thought he would struggle but he's now at .341 avg with a .549 SLG and 10bb/14k ratio in 82ABs.

    Maybe he's actually good!

    2007-07-28 23:08:36
    303.   Jon Weisman
    299 - "If you think a gambling column on page three sports page of a newspaper is tacit support of an illegal activity then what are rap song lyrics and half the plots of Hollywood TV shows and movies?"

    Your analogy doesn't track with anything that involves fiction. If we're talking about a novel or short story that printed gambling information, the circumstances are entirely different.

    With regards to nonfiction lyrics and documentaries, if they encourage illegal activity, I guess I'd tend to be against those too. Which is not to say that nonfiction lyrics, documentaries and gambling columns that encourage illegal activity are themselves illegal.

    So I'm not getting your point. I'm not saying the newspaper column is illegal. I'm just saying I don't see a principled reason for it.

    2007-07-28 23:33:19
    304.   Xeifrank
    303. I'm not saying that you are saying that the newspaper column is illegal. I am just saying that I don't see a problem with it compared to alot of the other stuff that is out there in the printed media, music industry and movie/tv industry. This comment isn't pointed at anyone in particuliar, but I just don't see how anybody could condem this column or the printing of gambling information in a newspaper in general without also being against other media outlets that are printing/showing/glamorizing stuff that is a much greater ill to our society.
    vr, Xei
    2007-07-28 23:46:52
    305.   Dodgers49
    Pitchers' injuries might be more serious

    >> The injuries to Derek Lowe and Brad Penny could be more serious than they have been letting on. <<

    ## Because Little doesn't know if Lowe or Penny can pitch Tuesday, he said he hadn't decided on a starter for that day against the San Francisco Giants. ##

    http://tinyurl.com/3xa2z5

    2007-07-29 00:10:08
    306.   xaphor
    I would not call printing gambling odds and spreads as glamorizing gambling. It's factual information presented with full knowledge that it is against the law to use such information in the state the paper is primarily distributed.

    That strikes me as odd. Then again the LA Times is a large paper distributed internationally and its geographical proximity to Nevada and Indian Reservations (is sport betting legal there?) gives it an opportunity to provide these areas with much sought after information.

    On the plus side the more newspapers disregard their integrity in chase of the almighty dollar, the easier it is for the non-traditional press to gain credibility.

    On DT Day I waited in the small park off Stadium Way for the gates to open and I overheard a group of guys discussing odds and calling in bets to their bookies. "I think Penny is going to get lit up, he's a fastball pitcher and the Mets are fastball hitters."

    Just another day at the office.

    2007-07-29 00:56:17
    307.   Eric Enders
    My own take is that:

    a) It is not a newspaper's job to function as an arm of law enforcement.

    b) The fact that something is a law does not automatically mean that law makes sense, or that anyone has a moral obligation to urge others to follow it.

    c) The specific law in question is one that is repudiated by the majority of the American public, but which has been kept in place to appease a small minority based on religious grounds.

    d) The law in question is also the mother of all double standards, given that gambling of some form is legal in almost all 50 states, and is usually organized and run by state governments (i.e. lotteries).

    2007-07-29 01:31:03
    308.   Xeifrank
    307. Thou Shall Not Gamble?
    vr, Xei
    2007-07-29 04:03:08
    309.   gpellamjr
    I'm watching Sportscenter this morning (don't ask me why, I'm up early with nothing to do). Lina Cohn, calling Mike Cameron's nice catch in yesterday's game, says: "Mike Cameron, former Met, still good." Now that I think of it, it is rather amazing that he is good even though he is no longer playing on the east coast. I don't know if that's ever happened before.

    I was particularly pleased by the disappointment in the ESPN announcers' voices after a great finish in SF last night.

    2007-07-29 04:13:14
    310.   gpellamjr
    Why does Billz always pitch on Sundays, when I have to go to my softball game?

    By the way, in case you've missed my weekly updates, I haven't been making them because I haven't been hitting well. I have, however, been throwing strikes. We won a game a couple weeks back 29-0, and were one inning away from a second consecutive shut out. My teammates don't like that I'm taking all the credit, but I know how good I am.

    2007-07-29 04:59:55
    311.   overkill94
    So uhhh, I kinda missed my flight this morning and will be spending one more day in Italia. Whoops.

    Totally off-topic, but I had to express how much I love the Arrested Development chicken dances. I would have to rate them:

    1. George (so random, I love it)
    2. Lindsay (the Elaine-like kicks are priceless)
    3. Gob ("You dance like a homosexual")
    4. Lucille (pretty uninspired)

    Those and the Charlie Brown sulks are my favorite moments from the show.

    2007-07-29 05:39:34
    312.   Andrew Shimmin
    Twenty minutes after Bonds hits 755 (and 756) is anybody going to care what the crowd did? As an ordained minister, I grant absolution to anybody who wants to boo, cheer, or moon him. If you run out on the field and try to injure him, you're on your own. But I'm not sure any of the rest even rises to the level of an interesting moral question.
    2007-07-29 05:51:31
    313.   Andrew Shimmin
    That said, I really like Jon's idea about bringing down Celine Dion to sing during the ceremony. And they should have Ryan Seacrest, on the occasion of Bonds' breaking one of the most hollowed records in sports, present to Barry, on behalf of the Los Angeles Dodgers, the keys to a 1997 Toyota Tercel, with modest body damage. And a Boost! Mobile pre-paid cell phone, with a thirty dollar credit.
    2007-07-29 06:21:46
    314.   D4P
    Celine Dion to sing during the ceremony

    Might I suggest a duet with Clay Aiken...?

    2007-07-29 06:25:35
    315.   Andrew Shimmin
    314- With Kenny G. accompanying.
    2007-07-29 06:39:03
    316.   gpellamjr
    314, 315 I don't get it.
    2007-07-29 06:42:36
    317.   Bluebleeder87
    We won a game a couple weeks back 29-0

    it sounds like a softball game score, you won't get that on my sunday leauge baseball league the most runs we've ever scored were like 17 & the ump wanted to call the game off to my surprise the other team wanted to keep on playing witch i found odd knowing how badly there were playing, we won 17-1.

    2007-07-29 06:47:10
    318.   Bluebleeder87
    Twenty minutes after Bonds hits 755 (and 756) is anybody going to care what the crowd did?

    there gonna re-play that baby till the next guy comes along & breaks the record, god only knows how many times they've played Henry Aaron hitting 715.

    2007-07-29 06:55:27
    319.   Bob Timmermann
    I find the LA Times gambling column appalling. Even if gambling laws are not enforced widely, that does not make this right

    One of the ironclad laws of gambling is that the house always wins.

    Is it the role of the LA Times to encourage people to find new ways to illegally waste their money?

    Then again, I'm finishing up a long bio of Hal Chase. And I'm also no fun.

    2007-07-29 06:55:51
    320.   Andrew Shimmin
    316- Just imagining as gaudy and awful a ceremony as possible.

    318- And by the second time anybody's seen it, he'll be inured for life to what the forty whatever thousand people who happened to be in the stands thought of it. Additionally, you've got to figure most of the incarnations of the replay will have the theme from The Natural, or whatever, dubbed over the crowd. With Chris Berman narrating.

    2007-07-29 06:57:35
    321.   Andrew Shimmin
    319- They print lottery results and horoscopes, too. There's no saving people from the superstitious nonsense they demand.
    2007-07-29 06:59:38
    322.   Bluebleeder87
    320

    Good point Andrew, well i'm off to my game we're in the first round of playoffs this week so gotta get there really early & stretch out properly. Late.

    2007-07-29 06:59:42
    323.   Bob Timmermann
    As for Bonds hitting home run 756, I would do the same as I do at any baseball game. I'd sit in my seat and fill in my scorebook indicating the number of the run, the direction of the home run, and the number of RBI.

    Then again, I'm no fun.

    2007-07-29 07:05:58
    324.   Bob Timmermann
    Horoscopes and lotteries are not illegal and stupid. They are just stupid. That's a big difference.

    Miezerski's column serves no compelling interest for the LA Times reading public. If the paper feels it has to make appeals to compulsive gamblers, then I will just use the paper even less.

    Then again, I'm no fun.

    2007-07-29 07:17:20
    325.   gpellamjr
    320 Oh? I thought you were planning the greatest assortment of musical talent ever mustered into one stadium! I was going to suggest adding Garth Brooks as that other guy he pretended to be for a while.
    2007-07-29 07:29:27
    326.   Andrew Shimmin
    I wonder if people who are old enough to properly appreciate Freaks and Geeks have a different idea of what newspapers are supposed to be than we unfortunates who were born too late. As long as the Times correctly transcribes the odds, I don't care about their printing them. I don't read the column because I don't care (also because I mostly don't read the L.A. Times) but I don't find it offensive that they pander to the market of people who do care.

    If they printed the street price of illegal drugs in the Commodities section, I wouldn't be offended by that, either. In fact, I'd probably go out of my way to read that.

    2007-07-29 07:29:55
    327.   Marty
    I don't have a problem with the odds column, other than the work I had to do to make it happen. But then again, I used to date a bookie.
    2007-07-29 07:33:50
    328.   Andrew Shimmin
    327- Is the bookmaker getting paid for your use of the odds? Also, will you pass along my idea of printing the street price of smack?
    2007-07-29 07:37:50
    329.   overkill94
    Considering there are many legal internet gambling sites that you can access from anywhere, can gambling really be argued as illegal?

    My local paper growing up always had the betting lines and I always looked at it as a curiosity to see who was favored in what game and by how much. I knew the intent of the line, but I didn't see it as a gambling-only tool.

    2007-07-29 07:38:51
    330.   Marty
    328 She's long out of the game.

    Our business section could use a little vitality, so I'll pass along the idea. I like it. Perhaps they could do a little map of LA with different colors representing different drugs, so you don't have to get lost when trying to purchase them.

    2007-07-29 07:44:13
    331.   Disabled List
    324 Miezerski's column serves no compelling interest for the LA Times reading public.

    Neither do horoscopes. But people like reading them, so the Times gives it to them. A not-insignificant percentage of sports fans have an interest in the betting aspect of sports, even some non-gamblers. As for the illegality of sports gambling, I'll refer to Eric's point in 307.

    It's tough for me to defend the Mieszerski column, because I agree with everything that Bill Dwyre wrote. But in the end, I'm ok with it. It's not the Times' job to participate in the nanny state's mission to save me from myself.

    2007-07-29 07:44:40
    332.   Andrew Shimmin
    329- There used to be many legal, by virtue of the law's being silent on them, internet gambling sites. Congress made it illegal for Americans to use them last year (I'm pretty sure it was last year). They still exist because, astoundingly, lots of people who know how to use the internet, know that their Congressman doesn't.

    330- I didn't mean your ex. I meant the casino that sets the line that gets printed. Or are gambling odds not generated by each individual casion? Are they in the public domain?

    2007-07-29 07:46:43
    333.   Andrew Shimmin
    Also, I think it's funny that Bob's opposed to it, given that he's the one who taught me how to read odds.
    2007-07-29 07:53:23
    334.   overkill94
    332 Well, some of them still exist. I'm pretty sure sportsbook.com is still alive and kicking and some of the poker sites still work, but Party Poker wasn't so lucky. I have no idea how some get away with it and others don't, but there are definitely still plenty of them out there.
    2007-07-29 07:53:50
    335.   Marty
    The odds info comes over the wire, so I have no idea where it originates. Most casinos post very similar odds, but there are differences.
    2007-07-29 07:54:40
    336.   Marty
    I'm an internet poker player and I vote.
    2007-07-29 08:02:10
    337.   overkill94
    336 I used to play, but when Party Poker got shut down I was too lazy to switch to another site. I still enjoy watching it on TV once in a while and love playing with friends, but I don't have quite the same zeal for it anymore.
    2007-07-29 08:21:07
    338.   Xeifrank
    Does the LA Times print point spreads of NFL games? Don't almost all papers? I wouldn't know, I haven't read all of them. I'm sure a few don't, like the Wall Street Journal etc... vr, Xei
    2007-07-29 08:46:31
    339.   screwballin
    324 There's just no way you're no fun, Bob. Sorry, I'm not buying that.
    2007-07-29 10:01:32
    340.   overkill94
    Wake up you lazy bums! I'm bored as hell over here. All I have to keep me company are YouTube videos and Simpsons episodes loading at painfully-slow speeds.
    2007-07-29 10:03:21
    341.   Andrew Shimmin
    Questions for soccer fans: is Iraq's beating Saudi Arabia at the Asian Cup a big upset? Is the Asian Cup a preliminary round of the World Cup?
    2007-07-29 10:16:55
    342.   ToyCannon
    The revolution takes another turn. The Daily News in an article on baseball trades reprints an article from Baseball Prospectus that uses WARP to determine the 20 most lopsided trades in baseball history.
    2007-07-29 10:17:10
    343.   Branch Rickey
    Derek Lowe is hosting a charity bowling tournament tomorrow. Wonder if he'll be relegated to the rooting section.
    2007-07-29 10:17:28
    344.   screwballin
    341 Check the odds printed in the Times. ;)
    2007-07-29 10:21:38
    345.   Dodgers49
    Former manager Dick Williams fed up with today's game

    >> Williams missed election by a small margin in 1999, but a 2000 arrest for indecent exposure probably has ruined his chances. <<

    http://www.lvrj.com/sports/8795287.html

    2007-07-29 10:31:41
    346.   overkill94
    342 Do you have a link?

    Same ole lineup for the Dodgers today against the rook, Ubaldo Jimenez.

    2007-07-29 10:34:44
    347.   Andrew Shimmin
    More fun with Will Carroll: Dontrelle Willis for Felix Pie, Jacque Jones, and Donald Veal. I remember when Carroll used to refuse to answer questions about prospects in his Q&As because he didn't know enough about them, and didn't want to embarrass himself.
    2007-07-29 10:41:45
    348.   Dodgers49
    K.C. closer Dotel atop L.A. wish list

    >> One Dodgers prospect in whom the Royals are believed to have interest is Triple-A Las Vegas shortstop Chin-lung Hu, the Most Valuable Player in this year's All-Star Futures Game and a player who started out on fire when he was promoted to Las Vegas from Double-A Jacksonville earlier this month before cooling off in recent days.

    Although Hu has long been considered the Dodgers' shortstop of the future, he will be blocked by Rafael Furcal at least through next season, when Furcal's contract expires. And the presence of Ivan DeJesus Jr., who is hitting .285 for the Dodgers' advanced Single-A Inland Empire affiliate, might have a higher up side than Hu and thus could render Hu expendable. <<

    http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_6491316

    2007-07-29 10:42:00
    349.   overkill94
    How the mighty have fallen - Morgan Ensberg was DFAed by the Astros today.
    2007-07-29 10:47:24
    350.   Hallux Valgus
    341 Iraq beating Saudi Arabia is not a particularly big upset. However, the fact that they both made the final is. I don't think it would be a story at all if Iraq wasn't, you know, IRAQ. I don't believe that the Asian Cup is a preliminary round in the sense that the winner gets an automatic bid to the World Cup final, but I might be wrong.
    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2007-07-29 10:53:04
    351.   Hallux Valgus
    349 I was surprised with that until I read that he was 31.
    2007-07-29 11:02:50
    352.   gpellamjr
    348 Okay, so I'm getting the feeling that this is really going to happen, and that Hu is going to have to go be awesome for years to come for some other team. So, those of you who know about such things, how good is Dotel?
    2007-07-29 11:03:06
    353.   Bob Timmermann
    I taught Andrew how to read odds for entertainment purposes only.
    2007-07-29 11:08:00
    354.   Andrew Shimmin
    352- He's thrown 23 IP this year (which is about what he threw in 2006 and 2005 put together). His WARP, this year, is the same as Chin-hui Tsao's.
    2007-07-29 11:12:19
    355.   silverwidow
    Happy Birthday, Chad!!! Make us proud today...
    2007-07-29 11:15:23
    356.   bojangles
    As Emperor-In-Chief-For-A-Thousand-Lifetimes of the Neo-Nanny Empire, let me assure you, Disabled, that we are not trying to save you from yourself. We are trying to save our loved ones, and, coincidentally, yours, from the kind of corrosive spillage that almost always attends addiction.
    So we like the notion of advertising drug sale locations - even the Chavez Ravine Sorta-Kinda-Methadone-Clinic - where you can get cheerfully lost in various foggy and ephemeral churches and synagogues which worship baseball numbers (754 ooooooh!!!
    755 aaaahhhhhhhhh!!!! 756 ooooohhhh-aaaaahhhhh-yeeeee-iiiieeeeee-oooooooaaaagggggaaaahhhh...........I need a smoke, now) and the Big Little Boys who generate them.
    As for more traditional chemical escapes, we like the idea of enhancing the thrill for those who actually choose it - so, if you wanna drink and drive and risk the lives of innocents (especially kids), and we have a chance to transfigure you before you inevitably do that unto us, we don't give you a trivial fine, or license points, or yawning driver's re-ed, or community service; nope, we put you in an arena parallel to the one in which you put us - the Ultimate
    Drunken Crash-a-Thon. We assign you a stock vehicle, uneven dirt track, a hundred other cars programmed to run at fifty miles per, just like yours, each drunken driver, just like you, with a full tank of booze aiding and abetting his or her accident-avoidance skills, and, to celebrate your lack of social vision and connection, blindfolds. The accidents that follow are
    Full-Consequence - which is to say, no medical treatment is allowed. Broken limbs? Enjoy them - part of The Thrill. Drinkin' buddy in the next car howling in ways you thought not possible from human chords? You get to listen for the duration.
    Steering column up the gut? You get to slowly bleed out, like so many valuable citizens, Moms and Dads, forgotten on so many lost, dark highways the last hundred years. And we won't even speak of the kind of paralysis so often flowing from these deeds, laughin', smilin' planetary delights, kinder in the garten, who get the next sixty years in an electric chair for the awful crime of bein' there - that would be too cruel, yes? (Google Antonia Verni, who is relentlessly cheerful, afraid her parents might abandon fatefully damaged precious goods if she is not).
    For mood-alterers, we have enclosed compounds, where you can feast on any chemical combo you can conceive, and, just like in the so-called Real World, purity not guaranteed. Same principles as above. No medical intervention, and you get to enjoy the performances of meth-and-coke-and-dust devotees. And, verisimilitude forever, weapons are readily available to anyone in such an ethically "diminished" state. So the people who get hurt are the thrill-seekers themselves, and not the children of Rodrigo Lara-Bonilla, or Enrique Camarena).
    As for gamblers, who do their damage more tangentially, we offer a difficult path, involving arduous (and, when completed, heroic and redemptive) reconstruction of the soul, OR, the chance to wager that organ away in crisp and certain rituals, though, again, in splendid isolation, so not a hair on any innocent's head is damaged, not a meal missed, a home forfeited, the fragilest hearts torn when the risk-takers get the predictable rewards...

    From the happy precincts of Neo-Nanny, we bid you a dieu...

    I want to now claim that I am more fun than Bob.

    2007-07-29 11:18:18
    357.   Andrew Shimmin
    354 continued- In WXRL (Win Expectation above Replacement), Dotel ranks 118th, having added very nearly half a win above what a no-name AAAA relief pitcher would have. Mark Hendrickson ranks 112th.
    2007-07-29 11:24:33
    358.   gpellamjr
    357 But I want to know how good he is. What's his W-L record? How many saves? How many holds?
    2007-07-29 11:26:46
    359.   gpellamjr
    Remember when Jason Jennings made his ML debut? He pitched an awesome game and hit a homerun at Shea. Those were the days.
    2007-07-29 11:27:36
    360.   gpellamjr
    356 Admit it, you're my dad. Aren't you? Didn't you just say all that in an email?

    I read Latin faster than I read your posts.

    2007-07-29 11:29:10
    361.   D4P
    11-0 Padres.

    In the first inning.

    2007-07-29 11:29:51
    362.   Andrew Shimmin
    A feather for Grittle's cap, Saito has the third highest Leverage rating for any relief pitcher. Grits is using his best relief pitcher more advantageously than anybody but the Padres. Unless J.D. Durbin really is the Phillies' best relief pitcher, but that might not be a discussion appropriate for mixed company.
    2007-07-29 11:30:47
    363.   overkill94
    358 All you need to know is that he looks like a major leaguer and plays the game the right way.
    2007-07-29 11:33:12
    364.   gpellamjr
    363 Sign him up! He and Juan Pierre will really inspire this team to greatness!

    What is Dotel's consecutive games streak?

    2007-07-29 11:33:19
    365.   Dodgers49
    Trading places

    >> Baseball is littered with stories like these. How would you like to be the guy who traded Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson? Or Pedro Martinez for Delino DeShields? Or Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz? <<

    ## "It's not a job for the meek," Colletti joked. "They say the meek shall inherit the Earth. Yeah, but the meek might not win too many championships." ##

    %% In 10 years of professional sports - four in the NBA and six in MLB - Hendrickson had never played for a team that had a chance to win a title. %%

    http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/articles/8794452.html

    2007-07-29 11:39:45
    366.   Disabled List
    356 As Emperor-In-Chief-For-A-Thousand-Lifetimes of the Neo-Nanny Empire, let me assure you, Disabled, that we are not trying to save you from yourself. We are trying to save our loved ones, and, coincidentally, yours, from the kind of corrosive spillage that almost always attends addiction.

    Gee thanks, I appreciate it. But do you really think the best way to deal with addiction is to criminalize it? Not that myself or any of the other casual gamblers I know are addicted to anything, but I would've thought that Prohibition and the Drug War would've taught us all something by now.

    That's all I can address at the moment. The rest of your post reads like an excerpt from one of Kevin Spacey's notebooks in "Seven".

    2007-07-29 11:47:14
    367.   Charenton
    It's interesting to read today's threads. Not necessarily as enjoyable as usual when the discussion sticks to the game of baseball, but interesting none the less.

    Subconscious rule 5 violations are all over the place. Of course nothing could ever be proved in a court of law (and neither could Bond's alleged steroid violations) as Nixonian denials of crookedness would be legion.

    Be it the continual references to the "riff raff" at Dodger Stadium or the Socratic mob OKed hatred of Barry Bonds - one's visceral positions on social issues are rendered obvious by the virulentness with which one's opinions are expressed on such issues.

    A certain loud minority seem to even less concerned with the issue of steroids in baseball than with the need to publically express a gut level hatred of Mr Bonds. We're all Americans and if we've even done a cursory study of American history - we all know why - no need to get into that. If these people are over 4O, we all know that these are the same people that have been whining about issues like the Bakke decision for the last 30 years every time that they finish a second beer- or any other socially accepted option for sublimating their deepest darkest feelings.

    Mr Bonds isn't necessarily someone that is high on my list of those I'd like to dine with, as I'm sure that alot of his problems with the public and the media are related to the fact that he's probably not a good conversationalist, but I do know where his 'tude comes from: from the stories that his father and his godfather told him about co-existing with the people that I referred to in the previous paragraph.

    Also, while we're on the subject of Barry Bonds godfather, we all know why he isn't widely used as a spokesman for MLB: he's got a 'tude just like his godson. And very justifiably…based on nothing more than his experiences.

    It's often said that I'm no fun.
    But sometimes you've got to "call a spade a spade…"

    2007-07-29 11:50:46
    368.   Bluebleeder87
    i'm just glad i've never been a gambler never liked it one bit, as compolsive as i can be i'm glad for that. I know one guy who was in the whole 18 grand because of it.
    2007-07-29 11:53:20
    369.   Andrew Shimmin
    I had never, before this day, wondered what Ward Connerly thought of Barry Bonds, but now I'm curious.
    2007-07-29 11:55:04
    370.   Dodgers49
    An update on former Dodger Paul Shuey in the LA Times:

    DOWN THE LINE

    >> "If it's excruciating and you can throw 96 mph, that's one thing," Shuey said. "When the pain is that bad and you're throwing 87-90 mph and you're ineffective, you're not going to get away with much." <<

    http://tinyurl.com/2weyc9

    2007-07-29 11:59:00
    371.   Bluebleeder87
    by the way i'm sure everybody knows Cal Ripken Jr. is doing his speach at the moment, Tony Gwynn had a very nice speach.
    2007-07-29 12:03:00
    372.   Robert Daeley
    367

    Again, if what you're insinuating were true, everybody would still be grumbling about Hank Aaron, second beers or no.

    Bonds is a jerk. Smug, self-congratulatory jerks are hard to like in general, much less cheer for when they are breaking a hallowed sports record. Never mind what drugs he did or didn't do.

    Trying to evoke the real struggles Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, or Jackie Robinson went through, trying to cloak Bonds in a crocodile-tears-soaked mantle, is at best misleading and at worst heinous.

    2007-07-29 12:06:17
    373.   Marty
    Channeling Jon: New Post Up Top
    2007-07-29 12:08:10
    374.   Hallux Valgus
    367 I don't understand. Are you saying that we're politically opposed to Barry Bonds because he's a jerk? Because that's just not true. He is a jerk, but there are a plethora of reasons to hate Barry Bonds. Being a jerk is around 3rd on the list.
    2007-07-29 12:14:19
    375.   Bluebleeder87
    ItD hasn't had the line up for 2 days already?
    2007-07-29 12:20:43
    376.   Dodgers49
    When folks on this site claim were they to catch Bonds' home run ball they would throw it back I assume they're joking:

    Value could shift on No. 756 ball

    >> Though it's uncertain whether No. 756 would be sold at auction, sit in Bonds' personal collection or be displayed at the baseball Hall of Fame, sports memorabilia experts say the immediate value of baseball's newest treasure would be between $400,000 and $500,000. <<

    http://tinyurl.com/2amez4

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