I have tickets for both the 1st and the 2nd. Work might sideline me from one of the two, but I'm going to try to make it to both if I can mostly to see what Barry does. I might cheer or boo, depending on my mood, but I think it would be lame of me to not go to the game when I had an opportunity.

Trade deadline thoughts

Is it possible that Ned thinks D Young can be a 4th OF in LA making Ethier expendable?

Ned has 2b options beyond Kent in 2009 of Betemit, Abreu, Dewitt, Denker....making someone available in a trade. Any insight into how Ned and Logan feel about those four...especially Betemit or Abreu as longer-term solutions at 2b?

I'd support the silent treatment over active booing of Bonds, certainly. I'm not sure how I'd react if I was there, but I am pretty sure I wouldn't boo. Whatever you think of Bonds - and while I don't like him personally, I think, with or without steroids, he's one of the greatest hitters I've ever seen - breaking the record deserves more respect than disrespect. Or at the very least, protest it by being silent, but to be negative is to disgrace, to sully, yourself as much as Bonds. Rise above it, I say. Anyway, if I'm there, I'd probably politely cheer. If I caught the ball, I sure wouldn't throw it back, either - but that's partially for selfish reasons. ;-)

I would agree with Underdog that whatever I think of Bonds, he deserves respect for a magnificent accomplishment, tainted though it may be. I also think that just because Dodger fans think someone--i.e., Bonds--has no class, that doesn't mean Dodger fans should have no class. Remember the old saying, that at Ebbets Field, the fans were merciless toward the opposition, but they respected great plays and great players.

By the way, I also think Jon's article was great. I do offer a minor beef: Piazza was traded against his will, yes, but I seem to recall him declining a very nice contract offer earlier in the season that would have kept him a Dodger and in clover for a long time. That doesn't mean he should have been booed, but he also wasn't an entirely heroic figure in the whole mess with Fox and that trade.

4 - "That doesn't mean he should have been booed, but he also wasn't an entirely heroic figure in the whole mess with Fox and that trade."

I agree with that. I mean, I don't begrudge him for turning down the contract extension offer, nor was I happy that he turned it down. But booing him is just bizarre.

I will boo. I will not feel guilty for booing. Bonds represents a time in baseball that made me stop playing baseball. He represents why most kids at my high school felt they had to do steroids to compete.

Bonds is a giant. Bonds will be boo'd accordingly.

I think Bonds will revel in being booed. Bonds seems to have that me against the world attitude and I think in his mind booing only proves him right and proves his greatness.

I frankly do not know what I would do if I were at the game. The only time I can remember booing is when I was sitting behind the Tucson Sidewinders (D-Backs AAA) dugout and I booed Albert Callaspo everytime he came to bat, because he assaulted his girlfriend.

I guess I would probably just be watching intently to see if anyone does anything stupid.

Can anyone explain how Green or Piazza gets booed, but Derek Fisher (who signed for a large offer from a loosing team as a free agent, as opposed to being traded) gets a standing ovation upon returning in another teams colors? Like Jon said, people still treated Fernando well? Why?

My only explanation is that Valenzuela, like Fisher, won a championship and makes people remember a better era. Piazza and Green, on the other hand, make people remember the Fox/Malone years and that comes with a lot of negative conotations(sp?). My guess is that when they're booing Piazza or Green, they are really booing an era in Dodger history rather than the individual.

Does that make any sense?

I had a recent conversation with a my college roomate about why he no longer watches baseball. He stopped watching after the last strike.

In my attempts to explain to him why baseball players need a union (esp. in light of the history of this great pastime) for protection against shady owners etc., I realized why I, if I had the opportunity, would boo Barry if he broke the record at Dodger Stadium.

I began watching baseball as kid. I had my heroes (Kirk Gibson, Orel Hershiser, Fernando Valenzuela etc) and I also had my hated list (Jack Clark, Kevin Mitchell, Barry Bonds, etc). I think it is this heroes and hated mentality that makes us as fans love baseball.

Baseball is a catharsis. We need our heroes and hated. It is this cathartic love of the game that drove me to read books like Bill James, Moneyball, the Baseball Economist etc. It is this love that will drive me to boo Barry.

I think the silent treatment should not be followed. It is denying the fundamental reality that brings catharsis. Let Barry Bonds be the hated (I do advocate disliking him as a player within the bounds of the law)

Anyway, I am now rambling . . .

7. Bonds loves the booing at Dodger stadium. I just wonder if he wants his career's defining moment (remember he didn't win a ring, haha) coming amind the Dodger fan's boos. It'd be nice if he just sat out the whole series to avoid hitting the homerun here.

I'm with Jon on this. But i have to be really honest if i were in a different stange in my life i'd probably boo my little heart out witch i guess means i'll understand the booing.

8
The Lakers won championships with Derek Fisher.

The crowd at Laker games is a lot different than the crowd at Dodger games.

12 - Umm it's pretty much the same crowd.

8 - That's a compelling theory.

With thunderstorms in the forecast in Denver today, I can only hope - given the Dodgers' recent bad luck with pitchers, that, like, Takashi Saito doesn't get struck by lightning or something. {knock on wood}

8 Plus, remember that there were a lot of bigger villians when he left. Shaq, Kobe, Buss...

I'm either going to boo my mind out, or just stand up and go to the bathroom or the concession stands.

12. that's true about laker games.

I went to several dodger game every year as a kid, but didn't go to a laker game for the first time 'till recently, and it is a different environment, it didn't compare to a game against the Giants in DS. Then again, I was there for a Buck's game.

No way. The price of the tickets alone changes the demographics of who attends, plus Laker games are much more a "scene" if you will. People just go because it is the cool thing to do.

13 - I think it's a different crowd. Maybe it's changing, but I think because of the ticket prices at Staples, it tends to be a more upscale crowd.

Not that the Laker crowd doesn't boo when the team is down.

Do celebrities boo? I can see some booing, but others, I don't know. Is it a fashion thing, like sometimes booing is 'in' and sometimes it's out of style?

From what I've seen is that pretty much every Dodger fan I know is also a Laker fan and that's quite a few people.

Maybe people just look friendlier in Yellow & Purple than they do in Blue and White.

Ty Wiggington and the Dodgers will no longer be linked in trade rumors as he is now an Astro. Godspeed.

21
It is true that many people are fans of both teams, but they may not necessarily attend the games.

21
Amazingly, growing up in Southwest Ohio has made me into a Dodger and Laker fan. So, I guess your hypothesis is confirmed.

21 - Many Dodger fans are Laker fans, but that doesn't mean the same crowd goes to see both in person. With Staples holding 40 percent of the Dodger Stadium capacity and playing half as many games, while charging more for games, it's almost as if the most likely Staples attendee is just the Field and Loge Level people - not the reserved or outfield pavilion people.

20

I've seen Spike Lee do some bizzare (sp)things on ESPN highlights. Jack Nichols isn't a slouch either from what i've seen. I could be wrong.

Trainwreck is just too quick for me today!

One radio fool from flyover country explained this morning that the "laid back West Coast fans" of LA and San Diego would be the best places after SF for Barry to break it. He is sure they will all stand up cheering for Bonds.

BTW,

Is a trade for Texiera (sp) in the works for the Dodgers? It seems that Colletti would have to be crazy to ship Loney and . . . to Texas for this guy.

Besides Jon's fine piece on the subject, you should check out this other piece on how to react to Bonds' breaking the record:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/07/how-to-grieve-n.html

And one thing to do is consider Sadaharu Oh's record of 868 the real record. And thus it's safe.
(So says Mark Joseph:
http://tinyurl.com/2f8r2g)

I like how the deals so far today involve bad teams getting players.

One thing to possibly think about, in regards to booing in baseball as opposed to other sports, is that in baseball the players are just standing there for 15-20 minutes at a time or more. Im not sure there is an equivalent in other sports to standing a controversial figure under a couple hundred drunk left field pavilion fans for 15-20 minutes at a time.

It's a great experience, btw, to be in the pavilion when Bonds plays. It's difficult not to boo him - I mean, he's standing right there.

29 As has been discussed here at great length this past week, in a word: No. Even Evan Grant and some of the other rumor-mongers have basically started to admit the Dodgers are not in the Teixera-sweepstakes.

Phil Garner must hate Chris Burke. They have Biggio and now Wiggington blocking him at 2B.

A friend and I both agreed that if we caught a Bonds home run ball, even if it were 755 or 756, we would throw it back.

Hmmm I seem to remember these same high class Laker fans having multiple riots.
Those must have been the games they let the poor people attend.

32
In addition, it is much harder to be heard individually at football and basketball games.

9
An addendum:

Booing Barry Bonds if he hits the homer at Dodger Stadium would give Bud Selig exactly what he wants. The record tainted with replay after replay after replay with loud overbearing boos.

Such a replay would capture the Zeitgeist of this baseball era.

31. What is going on? The sports world is making less and less sense lately ...

29. All the buzz I've heard is that the Dodger's would rather commit to Loney as their 1B going forward. The only rumor that the Dodgers seemed really connected to was for Dotel. Hopefully he'll end up in a Red's uni, or resigning with the Royals.

33

Thank you.

I don't have the time to read every thread or post on this site. I appreciate the insight and patience.

36
I thought that was just people coming to the stadium parking lot and celebrating.

36 - If you think that's what I'm implying, it's not.

We can disagree on this - I just have felt a different vibe at every Laker game I've attended. It does feel more like a scene.

celebrating aka rioting

35 I don't know. I'd burn it. And then throw it back at Bonds when he's in the outfield.

I hope everyone here will tune into Ripken's speech tomorrow. If anyone ever doubted the nice things I said about a certain former hitting coach, Ripken's words are guaranteed to be a stronger endorsement than I could muster. Plus, he's.... ya know... Cal Ripken.

Tony Jackson's latest:

"Russell Martin is NOT starting tonight. ``Lieberthal was ready to go,'' Grady said. ``I think two days for Russ and another one on Monday might get him right back to where he needs to be (with his stiff lower back). I see a different look on his face today (after not playing Friday).'' ... Also, D-Lowe's bullpen session was pushed back a day because the off-day made it less urgent that he start as scheduled on Tuesday, even though Grady hasn't officially ruled him out of that game. Lowe did throw in a pitching motion off flat ground and said he felt ``100 times better than yesterday.'' ... Still no news on Randy Wolf, but you can take it to the bank he'll do at least one more rehab start."

I like the idea of the silent treatment of Bonds but it will never happen (see prisoner's dilemma). You can't even keep a stadium completely quiet for a moment of silence when someone dies. Cooperation among 40,000 people couldn't happen even if it was pre-decided. In this case, the silence of some would only accentuate the reaction of the others.
I'd clap politely but not vigorously.

I just hope he hits it this weekend, so this can all be moot.

47. I want to see Bonds booed vigerously(sp?) just to break the stereotype that west coast fans are too laid back to care. People will keep on saying that of course, but at least we could have a great, obvious, and well known counter point.

What about if every pitcher just walked him from here on out and he never hit another homerun? The players and coach's seem to respect him too much to 'blackball' him like that, though.

I LOL'd (L'dOL?) at the idea (I can't recall where I read it now, perhaps here) of drawing an asterisk on the ball with a Dodger Blue Sharpie, then throwing it back.

49. I'd rather be called laid back than obnoxious and petty. Guess that's why I live in Los Angeles. And you're right, he is respected by players and coach's. And I think his ability should be by the fans as well.

4 "he deserves respect for a magnificent accomplishment, tainted though it may be."

i'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense to me. that's like saying that you should take your kid out for ice cream after she gets an "a" on a math test even though she cheated. after all, she did get an "a". sure, she would have gotten a b+ if she hadn't cheated, but she wouldn't have gotten the "a" if she hadn't cheated.

as for me, i think the only appropirate responses range from neutral to negative. he doesn't deserve anything positive for this.

I guess the only way my stance can be proven is if Bonds is Boo'd at a Laker game.

one day.

One day...

50 - I don't think that a good way to comment on Bonds' effect on the integrity of the sport is to trash the integrity of the sport by walking him even when the situation doesn't call for it.

Good luck Joel Hanrahan, in what I believe is his major league debut right now at Shea.

His first major league batter faced -- Jose Reyes K'd swinging.

For the love of Pete why is Saenz batting 3rd?

53. But what if you're daughter is the greatest student who ever lived but also may have copied a couple of answers on some exams as well (At a time many other students were doing the same). Should everything she ever accomplished be discounted as meaningless? Should she be banned from all schools and ostracized from society?

6 and 9 I think I'm on the same page as you. I respect Barry's ability (at least what part of it is natural), but I have zero respect for the man behind the bionic arm brace. Regardless of what types of PEDs he has used or not used, for me he is the worst of the baseball figures who represent the specter of steroids and pass on that bad influence to younger people playing the game. Above all it's his hubris through it all that I find appalling.

I booed Bonds at an A's-Giants game when he was catching up to Ruth's career mark, and I would boo him just the same at these games.

And I love the idea of the Dodger-blue asterisk on #756. I'd gladly throw either the tying or record-breaking ball back on the field (of course, what would happen after that is a head-scratcher. Carried off by Dodger fans like a stage-diving rockstar or trampled?).

The silent treatment would be a nifty trick, but nigh impossible to pull off en masse. "Boo" it shall be for me.

my friend (who is a dodger fan, but respects bonds) wants to make a sign for the giant series that says "lay off lamar, the rocket juiced too"

well it's nice to see both Ethier & Kemp in there tonight, i'd bat Ethier up higher then Kemp at this point but i ain't no manager.

I think the bigger question should be whether DS PA system itself gives the silent treatment or acknowledges the achievement.

62

The PA system will definitely acknowledge Bonds accomplishment it just wouldn't be prudent if they didn't.

58

bonds wasn't the greatest hitter who ever lived until he started using performance enhancing drugs. he was a great player who was hall-of-fame bound. but remember, fans didn't even vote him onto the all-century team.

yes, other players used performance enhancing drugs, and i support banning them from the hall of fame (i think many fans assume that it's a player's right to go into the hall should read its charter - the player's integrity is supposed to be a factor). i think bonds should get the same treatment as palmeiro, sosa and mcgwire.

saying that bonds breaking aaron's record should be rejected is not the same as rejecting everything he's done. i think he should get full credit as the first 500-500 man. that alone would have gotten him into the hall. by using steroids to break baseball's most important record, he placed himself above the game and shouldn't be honored by the game.

i don't support banning bonds from society, but i would note that some schools expel students for cheating.

62 - Unless you know about some of Bonds' home runs being stricken from the record over the next few days, how could the Dodgers not note the achievement? Though for Dodger Stadium, that stuff tends to be done on the scoreboard, not by the PA.

Ok, let me rephrase. Do they make a simple acknowledgement, or do they do something a bit more over the top?

66 - No, I don't think there will be confetti or Celine Dion.

58 Well, she certainly shouldn't be taken out for ice cream.

Just for the record, I don't support taking Barry Bonds out for ice cream either.

That arm/elbow padding of his pisses me off more than the roids. If I was there I would be silent. I am not a booer.

Just "moon" him...

I'm personally just fine with all 56K Dodger fans booing him so hard that you can't even hear Bud Selig congradulating him on TV.

66

You know what though once the PA guy does the simple acknowledgment it's gonna rouse up the crowd even more! it's gonna be interesting what happens that's for sure.

ps if it happens at Dodger Stadium.

64. I buy most of that. I politely applaud his career but I guess I agree that specifically breaking the record is likely due to streroids so perhaps I'd support silence for that. I would vote him into the Hall because although character is taken into consideration, the whole package screams HOF.

by the way Joel Hanrahan (sp) is pitching pretty darn good & just got a triple!

64
So would you ban every player from here on out because they could possibly be doing steroids? Because Sammy Sosa has never been tested positive for anything and there is a lot less info regarding him.

Also, would you go back and ban players who used greenies and other version of speed, because even Willie Mays did that. Would you take out players that doctored the balls?

73 If they couldn't vote Cal Ripken in with a unanimous vote, I don't see Bonds getting in on the first ballot, nor should he, especially since some writers refused to vote for Ripken because he played in the era that Bonds will forever represent.

I wouldn't take Bonds out for ice cream or ice clear. Just too much trouble for everybody.

76. What sports writers do has very little to do with what they should do or what I would do (no offense Jon). I wasn't predicting their actions, I was just saying what I would do.

75 - The answer to all those questions is yes.

Sosa got caught using a corked bat which should automatically prohibit hall consideration.

Whether a low life street rat,busy bodied 50's house wife or professional ball player using meth should be shunned.

I guess it's blind fanboyism that keeps this kind of behavior going.

Just "moon" him...

That's SO beneath me.

Jon
I love the site and read it religiously.

I must say, though, that I'm surprised that we voluntarily picked this subject.
Boo him when he bats, boo him when he hits it, and never talk about the record.
Forget about him.

Let's see what Ned does because I guarantee he's cooking something up...the clock is ticking.

80
I am fine with that. As long as there is consistency.

Distraction from the obvious maybe...?

Hmmm... Apparently the first stone casters are in the house.

75 yes, if a player achieved career numbers that make him eligible for the hall of fame (i.e. 500 homers, 3000 hits), those numbers should be discounted and he shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

i also don't think you need a positive test or proof beyond a reasonable doubt to ban a player from the hall of fame. this isn't a criminal trial and nobody's going to jail. again, no one has a right receive baseball's highest honor (see pete rose). i think if it's clear from the circumstances, eye witness accounts, and the player's conduct that he used steroids, that is sufficient to ban him from the hall of fame.

i've never seen any evidence that greenies and speed have a substantial impact on a player's numbers. they also had no effect on the natural decline that players experience over time. they certainly did not have the effect that steroids do.

Joel Hanrahan kind of has a slimmer Zambrano type body, He throws Bee Bee's also 93-96 from what i've seen so far.

82 As underdog mentioned in the last thread, I wonder if the Dodgers are looking at Cordero from the Nationals.. Sounds like the Nats would definitely consider trading him (or Rauch, for that matter). Wonder if the asking price would be something we could afford. Lord knows the Nats have a lot of gaps to fill.