Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with
In defense of my prediction that Andruw Jones would be benched when Juan Pierre returned, I didn't know that Pierre would be back a week before the end of July. So the trial period for Jones that I described isn't over yet. The benching of Jones could still happen by the time I suggested it would.
In the meantime, I'll say this. Yes, Jones could still improve this season. But what are the chances that he'll improve to the level that already being offered by Andre Ethier, who is benched for tonight (against a left-hander, for what it's worth)?
Tonight is one game, and we'll see what happens after that. But what Dodger manager Joe Torre is doing isn't right, for team performance or for fairness. Ethier has worked too hard (that's what they want, right?) and been too effective to be cast aside. Jones isn't going to hit a homer every three games this year. He is not the player they thought they were getting. He has a long way to go just to match Ethier's performance when other people said Ethier was slumping. Let Jones work his way off the bench like the other Dodger outfielders did.
It's one thing not to make lane changes willy-nilly, but Jones is a SigAlert in the fast lane, an overturned big rig in rush hour. It's time to go around him until AAA doesn't need to tow him.
* * *
Nationals at Dodgers, 7:40 p.m.
* * *
There will be non-permanent layout experiments at Baseball Toaster this weekend. We invite you to roll with it.
Update: Testy Torre (via Ken Gurnick at MLB.com).
Juan Pierre was back in the Dodgers' lineup Friday night, but so was Andruw Jones, which got the media asking pointed questions about Andre Ethier being the odd man out, which got manager Joe Torre a little testy.
"Because that's the way I wrote it down," Torre said, when questioned why Jones and his .166 batting average were in the lineup for the opener of a 10-game homestand and Ethier, batting .277, was not.
When it was suggested that Jones, who volunteered to return early from knee surgery, could return to a Minor League rehab assignment, Torre said: "When you get your team you can run it your way. For now, we'll do it our way."
Torre's brief annoyance with the line of questioning quickly shifted to a reasoned explanation focusing on the fact that Washington was pitching left-handers John Lannan on Friday night and former Dodger Odalis Perez Saturday night. Jones is batting .186 against lefties, Ethier .205. ...
Torre said he met with Ethier and asked for patience. At least for the first two games of this series, Ethier lost his job to a player (Pierre) returning from injury that he originally beat out in spring competition for the Opening Day job, while Jones remains in the lineup despite being a season-long disappointment. Matt Kemp, hitting .290, has pretty much been a starter since Spring Training.
"I told [Ethier] to just bear with me," Torre said. "I also told him how proud I am for how far he's come and just bear with me while I get a feel for how long it's going to take. It can't take a month. We have to make up our minds in smaller increments.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117989527.html
So you decided to tell the one other viewer of that show?
How about if I get you "Mr. Peepers" on DVD and we call it a day?
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That really sucks. My wife and I have been so looking forward to season two, and I've been looking for updates every few days or so (to no avail). That's a major bummer, though I must say, I always thought they might struggle to figure out where to go from where they left off, so I'm not surprised when I hear
Series creator/exec producer Cynthia Mort said in statement issued Friday afternoon that she and others were "unable to find the direction of the show for the second season,".
When it comes to TV shows, only the good die young.
I've done something to anger HBO.
It was so real, man. So real...
I watch the show for the articles.
http://tinyurl.com/58svv3
Kwame Brown may be next.
http://tinyurl.com/583odl
Optimism is great.
Its just too bad there is none around the Dodgers currently.
Not sure how I feel about the Sasha deal. Offer seems pretty high, and he didnt receive much interest around the league. But I'd rather have him than a Smush Parker type that could have been the replacement.
106-61.
138 The Czechs had a penchant for tossing people out windows that they didn't like.
What didn't they like about the windows? Was it the [lack of a] view? ;)
And yet extraordinarily uninteresting and not salacious.
I came out against the brawl on BTF and ticked off people because I violated Rules 2, 3, 6, and 7 in just two comments.
42 - i maintain that the dodgers will rue the day they let Ethier go.
That Nationals are starting Paul Loduca, he of the .607 season OPS, at 1st base.
He threw 165 pitches.
Martin plays all the time
Loney plays all the time
Kemp plays all the time over the past month+
*Special added bonus - LaRoche is starting
This represents the majortiy of the Hot Stove League wish list.
Grady Little and Jim Tracy would have done the same thing.
I don't have any questions I could pass on without violating the rules of Dodger Thoughts, unfortunately.
There is one price for the Dodgers, and a much lower price for everybody else. Maybe other teams wouldn't find us "difficult" to deal with if they weren't always trying to screw us nine ways from Sunday.
Huzzah!
The trade was for Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsly for Jack Wilson, according to Jason Stark.
With that statement and the one a few days ago concerning having to face Brandon Webb that went something like, "that's why we play the game" I like your attitude.
Torre is banking on Jones playing poorly to solve his problem for him. But maybe he won't. Slumps do end, sometimes.
Let's say pigs fly.
Thanks Fallout - Maybe someday we'll get everything that we want.
got to love Vinny
My, that was fun. Let's do it another 300 times before the season is over, shall we?
http://www.segway.com/
We've all moved on.
Thank God.
Ian Snell has been maybe the worst starter in baseball this year. Craazy difference from last year.
Thats an out with Raffy.
If you submit and get into it - you may be doing it 36 million times.
Get 'em on
Get 'em over
Get 'em in
We can do that at least once!
He didnt really do anything real notable in the minors, but he's been pretty good in the majors so far.
I would think that "Mr. Basketball" in California every year would be a one and done or an NBA/Euro prospect.
At first, I wondered how you would smoke saliva.
Oh, Bob, how could you?
Nats 103
Dodgers 98
You see, this is why people who have to actually be around ball players like Juan Pierre. What he does doesn't look pretty in a boxscore, but he's not insane either.
I'm going to use that theory tomorrow and start speaking nonsensically to my staff. I'm the manager after all!
--
Yikes. You had to point out that Manny story right after I finished dinner.
Did that character show up in "The Wire" in Season Five?
Go buy some Honey Nut Cheerios now.
Jon might have to suspend Rule 8 for the remainder of the 2008 season. (And I didn't even mention Pierre & Jones.)
Fastball down the middle.
I'm really becoming caustic.
Ethier wont get off the bench now.
Where do you stand on bear baiting?
If they were using 'promising ab's' as a reason to keep him in there, imagine now that they can point to an actual extra-base hit. DARN YOU Willie Harris!
"In Andruw's case, I want to see more of what I've seen some of. Keep in mind, if you go back to the start, Andruw was a huge part because of what he brings to the table and I'm not about to ignore that. We signed the guy for a reason. His experience, being on championship clubs. But he's struggling. That's where the dilemma is for who gets most of the action. If I saw no progress it would be an easier decision to make."
213 Yeah, I meant Andre. That or he's traded for a 3rd baseman/SS. Now that's Nady's off the market, Teams might think they can get a guy like Andre on the cheap.
sorry, sublime reference
Okay, no double play here this time, Mr. Russell Coltrane Martin.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/
Yeah? Well, I could be their starting CF and still not root for them.
After reading the article in the Register today about Ben Hines and his son, considering all of the other former Dodgers involved team management and coaching, looking ar the standings, considering how focused and balanced the team owner is, and knowing that I'm only 10-20 minutes from Angel Stadium, I was entertaining similar thoughts today. I love the Dodgers and like the Angels.
It is irrational though.
If Vin were announcing for the Angles, that would change things for sure.
But I don't understand a lot of things.
Torre looks like the Body Snatchers got him 20 years ago. I think he also starred in George Romero's first film.
Did you announce your announcement yet?
Famous last words.
All Pod people follow the plan. They must.
Now 2nd and 3rd with 1 out for the Giants!
...still down 10-1.
Torre listened to me!
I just downloaded two of his other albums today and they seem to be pretty good
Rumor meets reality.
Send him back out for the next inning too.
Lance Carter.
363 - Right. (Monday, you mean.) I blocked out most of the pitching in that series.
Milledge is one example of toolsy scouty projections coming up lame.
With the emphasis on unusual decision making recently, I'm prepared for the alternate closer/closer by committee/who's hot at the moment Park/Kuo/Beimel approach to be implemented at any time.
Hopefully that wont matter.
i'm gonna bet the house on tommorrow's game.
can we win sunday to get to .500????????????????
Glad the Dodgers escaped with this one.
And now the Giants will begin their furious 8 run rally in the bottom of the ninth!
But I'm going to bed.
BTW, Cole St. Clair made his Ogden debut and recorded his first save.
Er, no, Billy Buckner, scratch that.
But he walks the first batter!
If the learning curve progresses at this rate - how good will he be when he's 26?
You said you were going to bed.
That said, I doubt the Giants come back.
And made an out.
Cycle alert canceled.
Stand down.
Logan White ... paging Mr. White ... please report to Mr. McCourt's office for an important meeting.
"100 [MPH] is 100, but you still gotta hit your spots."
According to Yahoo news.
Joe Torre doesn't think we're going to trade anybody because trading for rentals is going to cause us holes next year.
Nice!
Tonight is the first MLB game Broxton has ever saved for Billingsley.
I'm pretty sure the last time Broxton saved a game for Chad was April 28, 2006, when Billingsley took a no-hitter into the 8th before surrendering a hit. Broxton would be called up to the big club for good 4 days later.
http://tinyurl.com/z2j2y
Of course, the most famous Bills-Broxton win/save combo was the combined no-hitter in Game 1 of the 2005 Southern League playoffs.
http://tinyurl.com/6pjhdq
Gagne lost his first arbitration case, after perhaps the greatest relief season in history. His first go around with arbitration is this offseason; he won't have enough saves to garner much of an extra boost. The largest determinant in pre-FA arbitration hearings is service time anyway.
Broxton was most likely going to close in 2009 so I don't think his arb numbers will skyrocket.
Also, regarding the Yankee, Pirate trade, How do the Yankees get away with giving away so little when the Dodgers are expected to give our current young front line starting pitcher and a young stud 5 tool potential hitter for a weak hitting SS? Does Hank S. call their GM using a voice scrambler and say "Take this offer or expect a dead horse in your bed in the morning! We have ways in NY to make you see things our way, Mr. Huntington, you Capish?"
The Dodgers, however, are perceived as being a team that traditionally has a very strong farm system, and if they're making a move, it's because they want to win now, so they have to give up potential future talent.
"He battles you," Torre said of Pierre. "He got the base hit that got us going, which is important. Again, he's a threat on the bases. When he gets on, especially leading off an inning he distracts the pitcher enough where Matt [Kemp] gets a base hit and all of a sudden he hits Russell [Martin], and we're basically off to the races, but I thought he was fine. He's in such great shape."
Kemp's base hit a result of Pierre distracting the pitcher?
It was the first time I saw either of them and they both lived up to the hype. So, for that matter, did Joel Guzman, who hit a MONSTER homerun, a good 50 feet higher than the elevated Vegas fence as it soared out of the stadium and into the desert night.
That one may take the cake.
When I got home, I took the wolf out into the backyard and spent four hours trying to throw a lamb chop past him.
I couldn't do it.
But he sounds sincere to me.
By the way, Jon's prediction may come true perhaps sooner than August...the Jones train may run out Sunday unless he gets some more doubles.
Extra innings will have a new look in the Olympics.
Each team's at bat in the 11th inning and beyond will begin with runners on 1st and 2nd. Teams can start the 11th at any point in their batting order.
New rule was adopted to save time.
Maybe they saw the AS game.
I am depressed.
Comets On Fire side project Howlin' Rain is playing Spaceland tonight with my friends the Crystal Antlers. Extreme sports enthusiasts may recognize Howlin' Rain from their Fuel TV commercial. And for Mars Volta fans, Ikey Owens produced Crystal Antlers latest EP. Should be a great show.
I think, as crazy as this sounds, that Torre in his mind sees Jones as going thru what ARod went thru a couple of years ago, and that if he rides it out, he will see the same result....never mind that Jones is not ARod, I think that is how he sees it...
Torre loves Pierre's speed, and I think he also love Kemp (thank g-d), but that leaves Ethier the odd man out, and right now he probably has high trade value...
as far as third base goes, I think Torre has given up on both LaRoche and DeWitt, and doesn't care who we get or for how long, just so long as he doesn't have to play either one of them...
you can almost hear Torre saying "see? patience...he's coming around..."
Torre either loves a player, or the player is in his doghouse...he loves Pierre-and he came back early from rehab!!!...he loves Jones-and he came back early from rehab!!! Torre values this "devotion" and "dedication"...old school values, and Torre is an old school guy
444 . We all pray that you're wrong about nearly everything, but we don't have a lot of confidence. (Although Ethier for Bay, somehow... Hey! They want one of our good players. Oh, yeah. They want 2 or 3 of our good players... for Wilson. Oh, well.)
>>MLBlogs writer Ken Gurnick followed up with Dodgers' sources on the rumor that they're on the verge of trading Andy LaRoche (possibly +1) for A's reliever Huston Street, to which they scoffed.<<
(All from MLBTR post on the subject.)
Btw, re: Blake, he can play the outfield, too, right? I have to say, I don't know if I want him as a full time starter, especially if he's expensive, but I wouldn't mind having him in the mix as a 3B-OF backup because he strengthens a pretty weak bench. Who would you guys give up for him?
I can offer an even greater Ned-Torre trade deadline nightmare. They trade Ethier & LaRoche for some PVL 3B like Melvin Mora and then activate Sweeney becasue they've opened a roster spot.
Now we're losing one of our very few minor leaguers with real power, and Meloan.
Sorry, still early and I've had coffee too.
ESPN front page is usually pretty reliable.
The ESPN front page is usually reliable unless Les Miles is involved.
http://tinyurl.com/5ooq5m
Andy Marte must be feeling mighty happy now.
455 Yes, he's a FA, short-term rental. Most teams were looking at him as right fielder.
1) The deal probably shuts down any other deals short of dealing Derek Lowe or perhaps something involving getting Maddux back.
2) As a "rental," he does not block LaRoche or DeWitt from the position in 2009.
3) Right now, Blake is considered a Type "B" free agent, but if he continues on this pace, he could be a Type "A." However, given his salary, its doubtful the Dodgers would offer arbitration but if he is a Type "B" FA, where the team that signs him does not lose pick, that signing could take place before the Dodgers actually have to offer arbitration so they could still get a compensation pick.
4) My hunch is that if this deal does go through, it will be DeWitt that goes down for a month, only to get regular playing time but he would come back in September.
5) None of the players on the MLB roster are involved.
The negatives:
1) This is not a deal that will dramatically alter the lineup but will probably have an effect like Nomar had replacing the dark hole at SS.
2) Both prospects are probable MLB players though Santana could be one of the first Dodger prospects to benefit from the move to the Cal League.
3) Takes one of the cooler names away from the system.
4) Though it is doubtful to fall into the Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson column, it is a risk.
But I agree with the theme of the last 24 hours that Torre is actually the bigger problem now. Colletti seems to understand that he shouldn't jettison any of the MLB-level kids (though frittering away AA players is easy because the fans don't notice).
But Torre clearly has no idea who his best players are. That's a gift that keeps on giving.
Then I'll come back and say "Stop your whining." And then people will tell me they have the right to whine.
And the whole cycle will start up again.
I don't like this move at all.
Oh wait, he's going to start at third. Oh well.
so why are we making a trade again?
Er, not that I ever watch that show. I've heard. Some kid told me.
As I said before, I think Blake would help our bench immensely, but don't see what he brings to the table at 3rd other than PVL. Still, at least he won't block LaRoche next year. I think.
The possibility exists that Santana could move to another position. I believe he's a converted catcher, anyway.
I'll go on record as saying I don't mind trading Meloan.
Santana is a catching prospect in an organization that has Russell Martin and probably will have Martin for another 10 years. I would have let Santana stay a Dodger for another two years and see what the situation is with Martin when Santana is in Triple A and has more trade value than a Single A player, but I was basically resigned to him being traded at SOME point.
By getting a rental player like Blake, the Dodgers are getting a guy like Lugo a couple years back: he can be let go and net us two draft picks next year. With those picks we might get two guys who DO become Dodgers eventually. Thus the Dodgers can rationalize what they are doing by saying that in addition to getting Blake's services for the pennant drive, they will get two potential future Dodgers for two prospects for whom they saw no big league future (at least in a Dodger uniform) because they are blocked.
Blake, who can be a free agent after this season, was batting .289 for the Indians, with 11 homers, 58 RBIs and a .398 AVERAGE WITH RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION.
His offensive numbers for the season are very similar to Ethier's. Blake has a higher OPS at 119.
Is this the best that can be had for Santana?
Just reminds me a little of Jackson and Navarro.
Is this the move that's going to take the Dodgers into the WS this year? Get real!
Cripes - Just let LaRoche play now instead!
Santana will probably end up with the Mets and that's when our suffering will begin.
The deal, if it happens, is just ok. We should have held out for more if Santana was a part of the deal. Think of it from the standpoint of Martin never being removed from the catcher's position. I would have preferred more value than JUST Casey Blake but Santana was always trade bait. Then again the deal isn't final so maybe there is more to it. We'll see.
Middle relievers are found in lots of places and the Dodgers already have been successful with Cory Wade's promotion and Ramon Troncoso seems to be doing better during his second go around.
For every prospect with a potential of Carlos Santana, there are the Andy Martes, Joel Guzmans, and Jose Tabatas, players whose stocks drop like a rock.
Will that happen to Carlos, well my question is do you think that this year is a breakout for him (career .764 OPS prior to this season) or are the Dodgers selling him high?
I just prefer having Martin for the next ten years over Santana. Er, that is if the Dodgers don't trade him in his walk year to Florida who then ship him to the Mets a couple of weeks after like they did with LoDuca and Mike Piazza. That's not going to happen right? Right?
That doesn't justify dropping the catcher you don't want for two months of next to nothing.
Instead, if he is a Type B free agent, where the team does not lose any picks but the team that loses him gets a compensation pick, than that could happen.
But, he is at least a player who will get a compensation pick.
"He is having an OUTSTANDING season at Single-A Inland Empire, but with Russell Martin a fixture in the majors and Lucas May a year ahead of Santana, Santana became expendable.
Blake will become the Dodgers' everyday 3B. Not sure what this means for Andy LaRoche and Blake DeWitt, other than one of them is probably headed to Las Vegas."
Carlos Santana has been a favorite of mine for several years and I had him ranked higher then anyone else this winter when we ranked the prospects but the fact is he entered this season as not even a top 20 prospect. He's having a great season in the CAL league but that followed a miserable showing in the Midwest league. His ascension into the major leagues is not written in stone and he will have plenty of hurdles. I had no more use for Meloan and expected him to get dealt for something.
Casey Blake is a very underrated player who has plenty of value. Is he any better then LaRoche if they gave LaRoche playing time? I don't know but I have no problem with Casey Blake being the starting 3rd baseman for the rest of year.
Curious to see if they now deal LaRoche for something else.
LaRoche: bats right-handed
DeWitt: bats left-handed
Not too tough to figure out which one is headed to AAA.
Blake: 1.7 runs above average
Dewitt: 2.1 runs below average
Blake's glove torpedos most of the offensive advantage he gains over our non hitting third basemen. If either of them start to hit even little, they're better players than Casey Blake.
Or to Oakland.
I actually prefer Andy being the one to go down in this scenario. He can get his value back up playing everyday and hopefully destroying Vegas.
In LA, when he doesn't start, I have to read idiots pointing to his one pinch-hit appearance a night say, "LaRoche doesn't do anything when he gets the chance."
No, it doesn't.
The Indians and Dodgers have completed a trade that will send third baseman/outfielder Casey Blake and cash to the Dodgers for two minor leaguers, according to a source with knowledge of the deal.
It has already failed to me. Why should the same old garbage be anything new? Nothing has changed.
http://tinyurl.com/5tonn2
A nice return for the Indians. Meloan has been a starter in Triple-A this year, but he projects as a setup man or maybe a closer, and Santana has turned into a very intriguing prospect since becoming a catcher. Blake has had a nice season, but he's a below average defensive third baseman with a history of fading down the stretch and struggling in big situations. The Dodgers may not be helping themselves at all by playing him over Andy LaRoche and Blake DeWitt at third base. They may now choose to move LaRoche in a separate deal. The Indians figure to turn to Andy Marte at third base for the rest of the season
"Casey Blake is a gamer," General Manager Ned Colletti said in a statement.
http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/mlb/dodgers/
Casey Blake is tied for 7th in 3B VORP at 19.9 with Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Guillen.
Blake DeWitt's current VORP is 0.3 and certainly you cannot hold LaRoche's VORP of -0.7 against him, I think it is safe to say that any production close to what Casey Blake has been doing will be an improvement at 3B.
I don't mind the deal, but good golly.
As I see it, if you buy a plane ticket to New York, you can easily get to Boston or Tampa Bay if you have to. Or else you can just hang around New York.
The tickets will cost a lot though.
I am confident that with as much regular playing time as Blake has gotten, LaRoche would be putting up at least the same numbers. Blake is not going to make much difference going forward. He has been playing over his head thus far this season.
545
It doesn't matter what happens. When you push aside your top 3B prospect since Beltre without giving him a chance for a career mediocrity like Blake, you have already lost.
Just like when Mike Sweeney gets activated.
http://dumpcaseyblake.blogspot.com/2008/05/nothing-better-than-casey-rip-session.html
Reading that sight is like reading this sight, only with "Casey Blake" substituted for "Juan Pierre."
Again, this is a scaled-down version of the eight-player deal the clubs never consummated earlier this month. That one was CC Sabathia, Casey Blake and Jamey Carroll for (I believe) Santana, Matt Kemp, James McDonald, Cory Wade and Andy LaRoche.
INSANE!!!
Blake's a pretty good player and already has as many homers as anyone on the Dodgers. I can almost guarantee the Dodgers will offer him arbitration because you would have to assume someone will give him a multi-year deal and he'll decline our offer. Let's just hope he keeps up his solid playing and gets us two picks instead of one.
I remember some very loud Cleveland fans cheering on Blake this way.
"Casey, we love you!"
"Yes, Casey, we love you! You're #1!"
"We mean that literally!"
That is all.
Plus, he's not as much of a 1st half player as some of you are letting on. His pre/post-AS break OPS is .801/.757 for his career which is hardly a LoDuca-like breakdown.
I classify 48 points over career OPS as over his head. I just want LaRoche to play and think this is a waste of time and prospects.
At least now they have a better lineup for this season, to keep things interesting for us fans.
Next year is LaRoche's year at 3B, you'll see. I'm really glad they didn't trade him.
Of course, don't be surprised if Blake turns out not to be just a rental. Nomar, Sweeney, Ramon Martinez...not all were acquired in mid-season trades, but all were re-signed after they'd proved their worthlessness, and after it was clear that there were better options in the minors. Blake is a "gamer." I think Torre has even more of a PVL fetish than Colletti has.
Still and all, let's say Blake puts up the same numbers as LaRoche would have, or even a little better. That doesn't change the outfield situation. If Pierre and Jones continue to start all or most games, it doesn't matter who plays 3b.
One way that this COULD improve the team would be if Blake would replace Pierre in LF, and play alongside Ethier and Kemp. LaRoche could then man 3b.
And monkeys would fly out of you know where.
Our IF defense is going to be horrible. Kent, Nomar, and Blake? Yikes. They're taking money out of Derek Lowe's wallet - his ERA could jump by a run per game. All those late-inning defensive replacements don't help the starting pitchers.
Blake, Ethier, and Kemp in the OF is actually great. Then we can afford LaRoche at 3B.
Bigger question for next year, who's the 2b?
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