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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Snow Day
2005-07-01 09:58
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

Hope to update with more later, but still recovering from the snowstorm. In the meantime, open chat away ...

Update: Someone in the media is defending Paul DePodesta: Keven Chavez of the San Gabriel Valley Tribune ...

But one might ask, what about that great team chemistry DePodesta tinkered with?

Well, when I think chemistry, I think of the 2002 world champion Angels. They probably had less talent than the teams they beat in the playoffs, but they won.

Then in 2003, Angels general manager Bill Stoneman left the team almost entirely intact, and the defending champions finished below .500.

So where was the chemistry? Did it disappear?

Did Stoneman turn into Stupidman? Of course not.

And has DePodesta turned into Stupidesta? Absolutely not.

Comments (475)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-07-01 10:22:03
1.   jasonungar05
interesting..from the LA times today

Game Over?

For Yhency Brazoban, it's more like Ghame On.

2005-07-01 10:23:00
2.   dan reines
i saw that too -- score another one for lively boy bob timmermann...
2005-07-01 10:31:27
3.   jasonungar05
So what/who is acceptable to give up for Adam Dunn?
2005-07-01 10:37:58
4.   fanerman91
What did Bob Timmerman do?
2005-07-01 10:38:17
5.   the OZ
Regarding chemistry:

"...There's also a chemistry problem, says outfielder Moises Alou. ``Every team I have been with has been close, real close,'' Alou said this week. ``You don't see that here and I can't even picture it happening; this is how bad it is.'' Moises Alou told Sports Weekly last week that he was ``sad'' that he has yet to have dinner with any of his teammates and that he doesn't see other players socializing, either...``You don't see guys going out. You can't take it to the hotel every night -- especially when you lose." - SJ Mercury News

Wasn't some of the rationale for adding Mike Matheny that he was a great Clubhouse Guy™ who'd bring great chemistry to the team? Was Vizquel also purported to be one of these good chemistry guys? If Alou is taken at his word, neither of those guys is having much of an impact. Again assuming Alou's description is accurate, it might mean one or more of the following:

(1) no one likes to hang out with Moises, but they all ditch him and go out together behind his back
(2) one or two Clubhouse Guys™ can't have a team-wide impact on great chemistry; the group is too large
(3) Matheny, and other reputed chemistry guys have been misdiagnosed as ways of justifying their value amid their lack of hitting ability
(4) losing ruins chemistry, regardless of who's in the clubhouse

Any thoughts? I found Alou's quote interesting in view of recent discussions of the 'human element' in this space.

2005-07-01 10:41:56
6.   Peanuts in My Shoes
5. Bring him to L.A.
2005-07-01 10:42:20
7.   deburns
#3: Not Guzman, LaRoche, Young or our catchers. As far as I am concerned, in light of TINSTAAPP, who knows which of the pitchers will turn out. Let the Reds guess. First basemen are the easiest to find, so if they want to wait for Loney to show some power, fine by me. They have a log jam at 1B anyway.
2005-07-01 10:42:29
8.   dan reines
#4-he's the guy came up with the "ghame over" idea.
2005-07-01 10:46:23
9.   Vic
5 -- Perhaps his teammates are afraid that he still practices his, uh, creative skin-care technique?
2005-07-01 10:46:38
10.   fanerman91
OHH. That was the title of the LA Times piece. Didn't put 2 and 2 together there.
2005-07-01 10:47:36
11.   Fearing Blue
#5: Perhaps they're just afraid to shake hands with Mr. Alou.
2005-07-01 10:49:15
12.   Fearing Blue
#11: It seems I was too slow with the obvious Moises Alou reference. Hats off to Vic for getting it in before me :)
2005-07-01 10:52:47
13.   Xeifrank
LA Times = Ghame On!

How close to plagirism can you come?

Ghame On vs Ghame Over

vr, Xei

2005-07-01 10:55:20
14.   Xeifrank
5. Why should Moises care. Going out to dinner with each other doesn't win ball games. It's not like if Alou, Schmidt and Snow go see the the Batman movie together, then all of a sudden their bullpen is going to start pitching better. I just don't see the connection... Chemistry off the field doesn't effect playing on the field, as long as someone isn't try their hardest.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 10:59:45
15.   alex 7
Jackson, Loney, and Tiffany/Navarro/Werth for Dunn? I'm not sure how many other teams can put together 3 top prospects like that. If the Reds want immediate help, Werth can step in. With the amount of injury time to our outfield, and the lack of OF prospects in our system, would be nice to give up a prospect and keep Werth as a 4th OF.

As for Navarro, some of you seem to feel Martin is just as good. The Yankees also seem to know which prospects to trade, being that few of them ever reach their hype status.

2005-07-01 11:04:01
16.   rageon
#7 - you wouldn't give up Young for Dunn, seriously?

I don't see why LaRoche is untouchable. The last guy prior to Guzman and LaRoche people said that about was Jackson, and how'd that work out? If we would have traded him for Dunn when we could have, we would have had a 40 HR guy the last two seasons, rather than a crappy AAA pitcher.

Bottom line, LaRoche's value is as high as it's going to be. He's got to be one of the more desired prospects in the game. He was no where to go but down, so I would trade him for Dunn in a second. And I can't imagine why anyone else wouldn't. Dunn is a legit 40+ homerun hitter, and you can't say that about many guys in the game, and certainly not any of our prospects. If it was me, and it would take this much, I'd be willing to part with letting the Reds pick one pitcher and one hitter, regardless of who they choose.

2005-07-01 11:04:07
17.   fanerman91
I think the strongest "effect" chemistry has is just trust in the team and the teammates. Even that is less important in baseball than say, basketball, because as some Seattle coach-type guy once said, "What are you gonna do in baseball? Not throw the ball to 1st base because you don't like the guy?"

Magic Johnson (I think), once talking about Kobe and Shaq, said that they didn't have to be best friends. They just needed to be on the same page during the game and trust each other that they would each be able to do their jobs, much like him and Kareem. I think that's the extent of chemistry on success, though I suppose a team with better chemistry would be funner than a team with worse chemistry.

As to alou, I think it's just human nature to explain things in such a manner. Instead of saying, "our bullpen sucks and our hitting sucks without bonds," they'd rather it be related to heart and "intangibles." Sort of like Plaschke.

2005-07-01 11:20:07
18.   dagwich
Speaking of Moises Alou....

Just listening to "A Dying Cubs' Fan Last Request" on a webstream. What a great song. I HATE that for the most part you could substitute Dodger-appropriate references in it and the song would be dead on accurate.

I'm sure Bob T could wordsmith it as he did with the Danny Kaye Dodger song.

2005-07-01 11:48:07
19.   Yakface
okay Xei, outside of the game relationships among players dont have any affect on the ingame reults? What about Kobe and Shaq? Seriously thats such a naive statement I think Ill eat my hat.
2005-07-01 12:01:17
20.   Xeifrank
19. I am talking baseball, you are talking basketball. TomAto/Tomato, PotAto/Potato...
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 12:07:59
21.   deburns
Sure, if it were Young/Dunn even up, no problem. I assume we are talking multiple prospects, possibly with Werth too. My point was principally that we have a lot of pitching prospects, and as you point out, Jackson hasn't turned out to be what was thought when he beat Randy on his 20th birthday. Pitchers get hurt (cf Greg Miller) a lot easier than position players, and are less projectible anyway. Let's hope we have an opportunity to discuss what would be a fair exchange if one happens.
2005-07-01 12:25:20
22.   bigcpa
Re: 16
The Reds #1 or #2 prospect is a 3B.

And re: LaRoche... imagine if 4 years ago the Cardinals dealt Pujols because Rick Ankiel didn't pan out. You may be right, but the success/failure of past Dodger prospects shouldn't factor heavily into the decision.

2005-07-01 12:26:00
23.   ddger
Is Joe Randa (Cinn) available. He only makes 2M and is hitting .297 with 12 HR and 42 RBI. Depo should have signed him instead of Valentin. I think he would be great for us until LaRoche is ready in few years.
2005-07-01 12:32:43
24.   Yakface
Xei, no matter how you say patato its still a patato. A game is a game player interactions affect how they play together its not rocket science.
2005-07-01 12:41:26
25.   Xeifrank
24. Tell me how player chemistry off the field affects how a team plays on the field. I am all ears, just like the almighty, given proof that it really exists I will gladly hop on the bandwagon. What I believe is that team chemistry or how players get along might make for some fun times but I don't see how it helps you hit a 95mph fastball or field a ground ball etc... If you can prove otherwise, I'm all ears.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 12:42:45
26.   Xeifrank
A good post up on "The Juice" about psycho girlfriends. Talk about ironic!
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 12:51:55
27.   regfairfield
23- Randa is the very definition of a mediocre third baseman. At 35, he has nowhere to go but down, and, considering his career high in home runs is 16, I don't expect him to hit much more.

I agree with the Valentin signing, simply because he represented by far the best home run to dollar value on the market.

2005-07-01 13:01:39
28.   Yakface
Xei, do you work? Have you ever done anything as a team to accomplish a certain goal? If you have, then you know that when the team gels production goes up, and when they dont gel production goes down. Its called morale(chemistry), it is a fact that morale plays a critical part in any teams efforts, be it baseball, basketball, military squad etc. I think you believe baseball players are automatons without emotion and being robots they have no need for emotional bonds with teamates, that is not true. High morale among the team creates a symbiotic relationship that in turn produces better results than low morale.
2005-07-01 13:03:26
29.   Howard Fox

DePo didn't want Randa in the offseason, why would he give up anything to get him now?

2005-07-01 13:08:21
30.   Xeifrank
28. I'd love to believe that but it would be nice to show some kind of statistical proof. Chemistry for some tasks are important. I agree with your work related example, I do not feel I need proof for this, I will accept it as is until proven otherwise. But I do not believe that chemistry (which nobody has defined for me) has an affect on winning baseball games or improving player performance. If Jeff Kent hates HeeSeop Choi with a passion, is he going to purposely throw the ball in the dirt to him every time? I am of the belief that winning breeds this so-called "chemistry" that you speak of, not the other way around. People win games, they seem to be in better moods and seem to have more fun.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 13:14:23
31.   Howard Fox
30-agree with you
28-sorry, disagree with you

the Yankees of the Billy Martin era fought with each other, the A's of the Reggie Jackson era fought with each other, I don't believe I saw lack of effort afield for either

2005-07-01 13:19:19
32.   Howard Fox
when things are going well, its good chemistry

when things go poorly, its bad chemistry

chemistry is a perception we have of the results on the field, and nothing more

2005-07-01 13:26:50
33.   Dello
since Werth would have to be in the Dunn trade, are we sure that it would be werth it? Dunn's #s are clearly better, but you will have to pay him big $. So you won't get a bargain here. Plus, between his HRs he seems to basically watch the pitcher throw - huge # of walks and Ks. Boring if you ask me. Also, how long can a guy his size play the OF? He would likely head to 1B at some point. Finally, didn't I read here a few days back a lot of you making a case for Werth over Garrett Anderson????
2005-07-01 13:27:50
34.   gcrl
well, we know that if gary sheffield is unhappy, he will throw balls away on purpose and do other things to ruin good team chemistry. his point in doing so is to make sure that no team wants to trade for him. he knows that gms don't want to upset team chemistry, for the most part, because they realize that players (and workers in general) are more productive when they are happy. remember the "happy haitian" theory about tightly wound baseballs?

i seem to recall that the dodger players were quite happy with the trade of pedro guerrero in 88 because of his negative impact to the chemistry of the team. i think they did quite well without him.

of course, there are exceptions to this general rule, such as reggie jackson in the bronx, but i know from experience in my field that losing key and popular members of a team has a direct effect on the performance of those left behind, at least in the short term. i think that the chemistry problems that the yankees had with reggie and the dodgers had in the late 70s with garvey and sutton and some others are no different than what we see on many teams today, but i believe that the players today react to their unhappiness in a different, often more negative, way.

while i agree that everyone should be enough of a professional to do their job to the best of their ability, regardless of how they get along with the people they work with. the reality is that this is not possible all of the time.

2005-07-01 13:30:45
35.   natepurcell
some 3 player combos i would trade for dunn:

jayson werth(mlb), navarro(AAA), carlos alverez (AA)

edwin jackson(AA), delwyn young(AAA), joel hanrahan (AA)

jayson werth (mlb), chuck tiffany (A+), cory dunlap(A+)

james loney (AA), justin orenduff (AA), tony abreu (A+)

billingsley, broxton, laroche, martin and guzman are off limits.

2005-07-01 13:42:17
36.   Xeifrank
33. Who cares if Dunn is boring (walks alot). Are those 20+ homeruns boring too? Jason Werth is no Adam Dunn, Dunn is a .900+ OPS guy and Werth is a upper .700 OPS guy. Sure Dunn is paid a higher salary, but supposedly the Dodgers have $12 million to work with. Of course, you then have to figure out a fair trade and all. I'm not saying he is our solution to winning, but he would definitely be an upgrade over Werth, but that's without taking "chemistry" into consideration. :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 13:44:14
37.   Xeifrank
Kevin Chavez? San Gabriel Valley Tribune? Never heard of either one. But he sounds like he would make a great Dodger manager. Watch out JT. :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 13:44:52
38.   db1022
I think the Reds are trying to rid themselves of OFers, not take on more.

Werth is a good 4th OFer. With our injuries, we obviously need competent reserves. I'd hang onto him, unless he can be spun off for a quality bullpen arm somewhere.

2005-07-01 13:45:44
39.   heato
How about Derek Thompson? He seems to be able to handle pitching in the majors, and the Reds can use all the decent pitching they can get. He might be even more valuable to the Reds than some others because they will not have to wait for two years before he gets to the majors.
2005-07-01 13:47:13
40.   rageon
#22 - I see your point, but that's not really what I've been saying. What I mean is that prospects are just that, prospects, and there is rarely a guarantee of stardom for any young player. There aren't many guys who I would bet money on being great players in the majors based solely on minor league numbers. Sure, some guys are more likely than others, but to be 90% confident they will work out, there aren't many I'd say that about. Drew, Texeira, and Prior are a few. Neitehr LaRoche nor Guzman is in their league.

Now, Adam Dunn on the other hand has proven that he is an all-star caliber hitter. A potential MVP candidate. Those guys are at a premium, and don't exactly grow on trees. We'll have a new hot prospects next year, but probably not a chance to get a guy of Dunn's ability.

My point is that I take the sure thing, every time. And besides, even if Guzman and LaRoche work out, neither will ever be the player that Dunn is. Ever. Ever. Ever.

2005-07-01 13:47:41
41.   db1022
#39 - If they're looking for a ML-ready arm, Thompson would be a great choice for us to include.


something like that.

2005-07-01 13:49:17
42.   natepurcell
we might be able to trick obrien into thinking thompson is our hot new lefty pitching prospect who has succeeded in the majors.

actually, thompson would be a good fit there because he doesnt give up homeruns at all.

anyways, if we get dunn, dunn is staying here long term. with the influx of 300k prospects coming on the team in the next couple of years and the big money coming off in driefort and green and other players, depo will be able to extend dunn long term. so that part is not something i am too worried about.

2005-07-01 13:52:05
43.   natepurcell
*My point is that I take the sure thing, every time. And besides, even if Guzman and LaRoche work out, neither will ever be the player that Dunn is. Ever. Ever. Ever.(

yes you right, because they are different players.

laroche and guzman play more premium positions where thier bats make them MORE valuable.

if guzman can stick it at short, he becomes on tejada level because you dont see that many shortstops slugging 30-40 homeruns and driving in 100+ runs.

rotoworld just did a thing on laroche and they compared him to troy glaus. i think laroche will hit for higher averages but his power potential IS glaus like.

2005-07-01 13:56:31
44.   the OZ
43 - I admit this is picky of me, but I doubt that LaRoche's power potential matches that of Glaus, just because Glaus is enormous and LaRoche is 6' or shorter.

LaRoche should be a superior defender and will probably hit for better average, but he won't match Glaus' raw power. Still, if LaRoche pans out he'll be a very productive member of the team for years.

2005-07-01 14:01:30
45.   natepurcell
size doesnt have everything to do with it. bat speed and hitting mechanics can generate just as much power.

look at it this way, laroche is on pace for 40+ homeruns as a 21 year old in AA. glaus between AA and AAA hit 36 homeruns as a 21 yr old.

2005-07-01 14:03:14
46.   heato
44 -- I realize that last year may have been a fluke for Beltre, but he still showed tremendous power (even if it never happens again). Height gives a player a longer reach, but does it necessarily translate into more power? I would think that power is more dependent upon strength and bat speed than height.
2005-07-01 14:03:54
47.   heato
46 -- I meant to add that Beltre is alst shorter than Glaus.
2005-07-01 14:20:14
48.   Steve
Do they still play the Blues in Chicago, when baseball season comes around?

When the snow melts away, do the Cubbies still play, in their ivy-covered burial ground?

2005-07-01 14:26:43
49.   GoBears
I'm a little late to this, but my $0.02 on the "chemistry" question. I think two things are being confounded that Xei is correctly trying to untangle. One is whether players like each other, and enjoy each other as teammates. So if the other Dodgers were happy to see Pedro Guerrero go, maybe it was because he was annoying for interpersonal reasons. But the reason that this says nothing about his on-field abilities, and why the other players wouldn't necessarily care if they lost his on-field production if it make the clubhouse more pleasant is because there is no teamwork in baseball.

Baseball is a team sport, but with no joint production. Oh sure, occasionally a player will sacrifice his own BA to hit behind a runner, but basically this is a completely individualized sport. Everything that a player does that is "selfish" is good for his team too. So even if 25 guys are all looking out for themselves and trying to build their own stats, that pursuit can only help the team (unless they're trying to do things they can't do, in which case it helps neither individual nor team).

In basketball and football and hockey and soccer, there really is teamwork. The whole can be much more than the sum of its parts. If Shaq and Kobe don't play nice with each other, it hurts the team. Selfish stat accumulation can make the team worse off ON THE FIELD OF PLAY. In baseball, the whole is precisely the sum of its parts.

So unless someone can show that bad chemistry (a bad metaphor given the absence of joint production) makes players' individual performances suffer (I'm mad at Kent, so I lose focus and make errors or hit badly), I'm with Xeifrank on this - chemistry may affect how much players enjoy the experience, but it doesn't affect productivity. The burden of proof is certainly on those who would argue that chemistry affects team production.

2005-07-01 14:28:04
50.   GoBears
" the land of the free,
the home of the brave,
and the doormat
of the National League..."
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-07-01 14:32:17
51.   natepurcell
the suns go today at home. game starts at 405 PT and can be seen here:

so if you are bored before the dodger game, watch some suns baseball! billingsley is on the mound.

2005-07-01 14:37:07
52.   Dello
Let's not get too carried away with Dunn. He's a few HRs better than Hee Sop, yet will cost a lot more. what's the value of incremental HR above Hee Sop?
2005-07-01 14:39:12
53.   natepurcell
Let's not get too carried away with Dunn. He's a few HRs better than Hee Sop, yet will cost a lot more. what's the value of incremental HR above Hee Sop?

a few homers better? dunn belted 46 homeruns last year and is on pace for the same amount basically.

2005-07-01 14:42:01
54.   fanerman91
And his on-base percentage is so dreamy...
2005-07-01 14:43:29
55.   Dello
that's right. and our man Hee Sop is on pace for about 30. Since I expect Dunn will get about $8m next year in arbitration and Choi makes about the minimum this year, is an extra 15 HRs worth $7-8 mil.?
2005-07-01 14:43:44
56.   Dello
that's right. and our man Hee Sop is on pace for about 30. Since I expect Dunn will get about $8m next year in arbitration and Choi makes about the minimum this year, is an extra 15 HRs worth $7-8 mil.?
2005-07-01 14:45:41
57.   Howard Fox
55-on pace for 30 HRs? you are assuming somewhere along the line he will have another 7 homer in 4 day spurt...
2005-07-01 14:47:00
58.   Dello
57 - yes, I bleed Dodger blue
2005-07-01 14:47:26
59.   GoBears
Uh yeah, Adam Dunn is one of the top 10 hitters in the NL, sometimes top 5, and has been for a few years now. And he's only, what, 25? I love Hee-Seop, and wish he would be allowed to be a full-time player, but his dream is to have one year as good as Dunn's average year.

I said this before - other than Pujols (and I should probably add Texiera and maybe Blalock) there's not a single hitter I'd rather add for the long run than Adam Dunn. Not A-Rod (because he's already 30, believe it or not); not Beltran; not Soriano). OK, maybe Miguel Cabrera.

2005-07-01 14:48:24
60.   natepurcell
dunn is like a basic guarentee of 40 homeruns a year. its like, the sky is blue, the sun rises on the east, cows dont fly, bill gates is rich, dunn hits 40 homers annually.
2005-07-01 14:50:11
61.   jasonungar05

has a nice ring to it.

2005-07-01 14:50:27
62.   Benaiah
55- I like Choi and I am happy we have him but Dunn is hitting way better accross the board (Choi:237/317/470 vs Dunn 242/389/556). Plus, it isn't like we would have to cut Choi to get Dunn. Dunn, in my mind, isthe best power hitter in the league right now. There are better hitters, but no one crushes the ball like Adam.
2005-07-01 14:51:14
63.   Dello
ok, I will give you that. Dunn will hit 40 HRs and bill gates is rich. But does gates strike out 200 times per year?
2005-07-01 14:51:35
64.   Benaiah
61 - Dunn wouldn't bat 5th. He is a natural born #4.
2005-07-01 14:52:37
65.   Howard Fox
63-at least a strike out isn't a double play
2005-07-01 14:55:03
66.   Benaiah
63 - Dunn does K alot, but he makes up for that with everything else. He walks nearly as much as he Ks (55 vs 83 this year). Lets invent a TTO stat BB+HR/K. Dunn's .904 is even better if you consider how many K's he has.
2005-07-01 14:55:09
67.   jasonungar05
i hear ya, but Kent is a natrual 4. He hits em when they count.

After all Dunn IS hitting .189 with RISP this year.

2005-07-01 14:55:24
68.   natepurcell
i honestly dont really care about the strikes out. its just another way to make an out.

at least, you cant make two outs like a GIDP- which dunn hardly ever does.

2005-07-01 14:58:09
69.   the OZ

You are all correct and I agree. My point was, all else being equal the bigger guy has more power; it's just physics.

Even with a mechanically correct, powerful swing, I doubt LaRoche has Glaus-level power in the big leagues just because Glaus also has a good, powerful swing and is 6 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier.

That said, he doesn't need to equal Glaus's power to be as productive a player - a .275/.345/.545 line would be great from LaRoche with good defense at 3B.

2005-07-01 14:59:47
70.   Dello
I think that the line-up should feature Drew, Choi and Dunn back-to-back so I can regularly yell at the tv for someone to just swing the bat. At least Kent comes up once every nine times
2005-07-01 15:01:18
71.   GoBears
64/67; 4th or 5th doesn't matter. Batting order doesn't matter much at all, but especially the difference of once spot (they'll get basically the same number of PAs). To me getting a L-R-L-R alternation going is probably marginally more important, to take advantage of matchup-obsessed managers (Tracy, LaRussa, Alou) and deplete their bullpens faster.
2005-07-01 15:06:35
72.   Steve
mmmmmmmm...Adam Dunn.
2005-07-01 15:12:02
73.   GoBears
From CBS Sportsline's Rumor Mill, though their source is the LA Times:

The Dodgers want a power hitter and have set their sights on several reasonably priced players who might be available in the next few weeks, says the Los Angeles Times They are: Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Tampa Bay's Aubrey Huff and Carl Everett of the White Sox.

Dunn I would love. Huff would help. But Carl Everett?! Oh man! Even if he were any good, (1) he's basically a DH now, which is why the ChiSox are willing to dump him, since Big Hurt is back for that job, and (2) he's OLD, so he'd only be a stop-gap for this year, and I wouldn't want to waste prospects on him. And that's ignoring that he's a serial malcontent who makes Sheffield seem cuddly, and a troglodyte quote-machine, who will distract the media from ever noticing Tracy's travails.

2005-07-01 15:14:27
74.   fanerman91
Regarding Steve Henson (is that his name?) and his claim that the Angels were a better franchise than the Dodgers because of the lack of a site...

If you change the name of your website to, do you think Henson would say that the OC Register, Whittier Daily News, et al, are all better newspapers because there's no

2005-07-01 15:14:58
75.   Dello
how about Hee Sop and Jackson or Thompson for Dunn? then we use Dunn at 1B. Milton comes back to the OF and we are good to go.
2005-07-01 15:16:46
76.   stubbs
missed most of todays chat but:

no one is untouchable for Adam 40 HR power. none of our prospects are can't miss, so why not get a proven stud? Plus the Rule 5 aspect makes it even more appealing. Dunn's position flexiblity is huge given that our OF is injury prone and Mr. Choi is streak prone.

The positive Depo article was decent, but it was just stats, stats, stats. Nothing about his plan or the fact we are 4 games under in the worst division in recent baseball history.

2005-07-01 15:19:24
77.   bokonon42
Re: Chemistry

I believe in clubhouse cancer, but the term has been watered down to the point that Drew failing to hump Kent's leg after a routine fly, is now an accepted example. I'm sure his fellow Texans would like to kick Kenny Rogers in the nuts, but that's at the extreme. It can't be worth two wins a year.

But I don't think the opposite is true. No matter how much teammates love each other, they're not going to be any better than they are.

And it seems like most of what is called chemistry is really luck. It's a superstitious explanation of chance. But maybe I'm just naive. . .

2005-07-01 15:20:22
78.   heato
I would put Huff in a group of players that include Jim Thome and Mike Lowell. They are all sluggers who home runs have mysteriously disappeared this year. I hope that the Huff reference in the article was only the writer's speculation. Antonio Perez is not much of a downgrade from Huff.
2005-07-01 15:21:03
79.   the OZ
74 - I think you are confusing Steve Henson (the Times' Dodger beat writer) with the Times' Tim Brown. I think it was Brown that wrote the website comment, not Henson.
2005-07-01 15:21:19
80.   Benaiah
75 - If the Reds are willing to take Jackson, Choi and Thompson for Dunn I am sure Depo would be willing. However, I am guessing it might take more than that. Choi is solid but not spectacular (especially in the eyes of traditional baseball), Thompson isn't really a prospect and Jackson's star has fallen. I think it would be a fair trade, but mid season trades usually require paying 1.50 to the dollar.
2005-07-01 15:22:02
81.   fanerman91
Entirely possible and probably likely. My bad.
2005-07-01 15:23:58
82.   Dello
not sure what Depo will do here. He seems to be a man with a long term plan. shouldn't go to the supermarket when you are hungry though.
2005-07-01 15:29:46
83.   Steve
It's Brown. You can tell the difference between the two because Brown writes long Shakespearean soliloquies about Arte Moreno. Moreno, Moreno, wherefore art thou, Arte Moreno? And so on...

Yeah, it made me angry, because at the time, my site was very pro-DePodesta (this was before the Erickson-induced change in editorial direction), and it served as a cheap shot.

Also, had I been born 30 miles farther south, Mike Scioscia would have, truly, an arch-enemy. I don't think it's fair for Scioscia to get off scot free just because of an accident of birth.

2005-07-01 15:30:28
84.   heato
I wonder how much the Reds would want for Dunn if we were willing to take Milton off their hands.

Just to be clear, I DO NOT WANT ERIC MILTON.

I was just wondering how much the Reds do not want Eric Milton.

2005-07-01 15:30:31
85.   Benaiah
I love this, especially the meltdown/injury affected player listed at the bottom. Valentine's numbers look like a horror movie though.

(from the LA Times)Paul's players

The Dodgers have struggled to a 37-41 record. Here is how some of the players that General Manager Paul DePodesta has acquired have fared this season:
Player Avg. HR RBIs
• Kent .302 15 58
• Bradley .298 10 26
• Drew .280 12 32
• Choi .237 13 31
• Valentin .194 2 12
Pitcher IP W-L ERA
• Lowe 111 5-8 3.66
• Penny 82 3-5 3.83
• Erickson 46 1-4 6.60

2005-07-01 15:31:51
86.   GoBears
There've been rumors about Choi in the Home Run Derby. Sportsline reports a new format this year which makes this much more likely:

Instead of having four players from each league, the commissioner's office said Friday it will have eight players represent their native countries at the July 11 event.

So who else besides Choi would represent Korea? Choi seems the easy "choi"ce. Sorry.

Japan - Matsui (Hideki, not Kaz)

Mexico - Vinny Castilla? Durazo?

Venezuela - Mora?

Dominican - too many good choices. Sosa, Manny, Vlad, Ortiz, Guillen, Tejada, Aramis, Pujols, and a cast of thousands.

Puerto Rico - not a country, but: JuanGon, Javy, Posada, Pudge, Lowell, Beltran,

Canada - uh, Larry Walker still ambulatory?
Justin Morneau?

Cuba - Raffy Palmeiro?

Colombia - yuck, Renteria?

Curacao - Andruw Jones

Panama - Carlos Lee, OLMEDO!

2005-07-01 15:32:11
87.   Steve
By the way, put it in the bank. Dunn is not coming here unless we give them Billingsley or Tiffany. Period. They have nothing to play for for the next 30 years and a whole lot of time to sit around and wait until Dunn becomes a free agent. Even given that Choi is Almighty Deity, the package is Billingsley plus Werth plus ?. It is nothing short of that, and it may be more. As you were.
2005-07-01 15:33:12
88.   Steve
84 - That is an interesting idea, but what would we do with him? A seven million dollar LOOGy? Can he even do that?
2005-07-01 15:36:42
89.   Benaiah
87 - I would give them Tiffany in a package without blinking. Tiffany, Werth and Young see ya! I would miss them, but the long long balls off of Dunn's bat would comfort me.
2005-07-01 15:38:30
90.   Benaiah
87 - In my mind the question is whether it is possible to trade more good prospects rather than having to trade the best ones. The Reds would probably ask for one of the big three, but is it possible to give them Loney and Young instead of Guzman for example?
2005-07-01 15:40:34
91.   Xeifrank
87. Billingsley and Tiffany are the two prospects that I would hate to give up the most (pitchers), the other two being Guzman and LaRoche. Logic tells me that the Reds would probably want two of the four in a trade for Dunn. Depo's job is to only give up one and make them think that Thompson, Jackson, Nokamura, Perez or Werth are worthwhile players to trade for.

If you traded for Dunn who plays both 1B/OF, would you then be more likely to trade Choi or Werth? Werth would give us depth in the outfield, but Depo has put so much stock in Choi that he might be hard to move. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall during this trade negotiation if it is indeed happening or will happen.
vr, Xei

2005-07-01 15:41:57
92.   fanerman91
Is this even being talked about by the Dodgers front office? I've been out of the loop in regard to sports media news coverage. Does this have life or is it all just speculation?
2005-07-01 15:42:14
93.   Xeifrank
49. That was basically my point, but thanks for saying it better. In my younger days I use to think team chemistry was very important for a major league baseball team, now I know better. I am learning many things, and am still keeping an open mind to both sides of all arguments.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 15:44:00
94.   bokonon42
88- He can hold a roster spot so as not to run up the clock on a minor leaguer, the same way Erickson has been doing for the last month. Plus, it's practically performance art, Milton replacing Erickson. What's Frank Viola up to these days? Eddie Guardado?
2005-07-01 15:44:38
95.   Xeifrank
85. of those stats you listed HRs are really the only important stat. Please post OPS for all hitters, and for pitchers either DIPS, K/9 and or K/BB.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 15:46:19
96.   GoBears
Aubrey Huff is 28, and came up in 2000. His career stats are .290/.345/.477. He's been playing RF this year, so he must not be much at 3B (in fact, his defensive stats are pretty bad). This year, he has fallen off the cliff (.252/.319/.477).

Heato is right - it's his power that has disappeared. 23, 34, and 29 HRs the last 3 years, but only 5 in 74 games played this season. Sounds like Green's shoulder or Karros's back. I'd be wary.

2005-07-01 15:47:45
97.   bokonon42
95- It wasn't his list. It was in the times today, as is.
2005-07-01 15:48:35
98.   heato
88 -- As bad a Milton has been this year, he has not been terrible against lefties. Of the 24 homeruns he has allowed, only 3 have been to left-handed batters. Granted, he probably has faced quite a few more righties than lefties. Lefties are "only" hitting .275 off of him. He has struck out 15 lefties and walked 4.

Still, the Reds would almost have to give Dunn away for Depo to take that contract.

2005-07-01 15:49:17
99.   stubbs
if we keep weaver, we only have 1 rotation spot open till 2008 anyway, so with guys like miller, tiffany, jackson, hochevar, billinglsey all waiting in the wings trading 2 of those guys is no big deal.

however, will there be bigger fish to trade for in the off-season???

2005-07-01 15:49:50
100.   Xeifrank
97. I know it wasn't HIS list. But to be fair to the players listed it should atleast be pointed out that the metrics shown are not very good ones. No harm meant at the person who posted the list, just pointing something out. :)
vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-07-01 15:50:21
101.   Benaiah
95 - That is the LA Times, not me.
2005-07-01 15:52:23
102.   Xeifrank
Over/Under just came in for Brad Penny in tonights game against the D-Backs.

6 2/3 IPs

vr, Xei

2005-07-01 15:52:41
103.   Steve
Do the Reds have anybody a little more realistic that fits into the crappy contract category? Somebody we can take off their hands in an Encarnacion-like manner to, shall we say, take the edge off a Dunn trade? So they might not ask for Billingsley AND Tiffany?

And if anybody cares, if the result is Adam Dunn, I'd throw in a pitcher with the initials YB without the slightest of hesitations.

2005-07-01 15:53:45
104.   Benaiah
100 - Word up. All of the hitters looked like they were doing well, except for Valentin who actually managed to have a 360 OBP despite his 194 BA. That is a ridiculously high BB/AB. I bet no one in the majors is that high right now.
2005-07-01 15:55:16
105.   Benaiah
103 - I would throw in YB before CB, CT or JB probably. Well CB for sure anyway.
2005-07-01 15:56:07
106.   Xeifrank
103. I would only trade YB if we were sellers. It is my belief that closers or tough setup men have high market values during the playoff push (near the end of the trade deadline). I just think YB's trade value would be highest if we were sellers. There is always a team in the playoff hunt that could use bullpen help. I don't mind trading YB, but am for maximizing what we can get in return for him.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 15:56:58
107.   Steve
So would I, but it's a YB+(CB OR CT) proposition. What about CT+YB+JW=2005 AD?
2005-07-01 15:57:09
108.   Vic
After reading the earlier discussion regarding whether Dunn was more suited to bat fourth or fifth, I figured I'd check today's Reds lineup to see where they have him slotted.

Adam Dunn, possessed of a .944 OPS, is batting seventh today. Sean Casey, at .773, is batting third.

2005-07-01 15:57:57
109.   Steve
And if we ask nice, I bet they'll throw in Jason Romano.
2005-07-01 15:59:11
110.   Steve
108 -- Hey, since Jim Tracy has taken over the Reds, would someone be nice enough to send me the memo? Not like this hasn't been my life's work or anything.
2005-07-01 16:00:17
111.   stubbs
106-agree, if we are selling, that is only way we trade Yhency...Steve who closes under your scenario, Giovanni?
2005-07-01 16:01:04
112.   Xeifrank
108. Nice research. Pettite is pitching thus the Reds manager is playing the lefty/lefty card. Dunn historically does well against lefties, a high .800 OPS and a low .900 OPS vs righties. Not enough of a drop in production to move him to the #7 hole. And we thought JT needed to be fired. :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 16:01:31
113.   Benaiah
107 - that one would be tough to swallow, but it is the kind of trade that gets done at midseason. If we could take on a bad contract (not kicked out of the Garden of Eden bad) and save a prospect I would be all for it. The one bad thing about dealing YB is that it is dealing from a position of weakness rather than strength. We have alot of good prospects, but we are running on E in the bullpen. So even though CT>YB,Unless Depo is dealing for Dunn but still conceding the year, I don't know if that trade makes sense.
2005-07-01 16:04:51
114.   ddger
This is my top 5 of our prospects:

Guzman, LaRoche, Billingsley, Broxton, Tiffany.

Any other opinions out there?

I would give up 1 or the top 5 for Dunn along with other players.

2005-07-01 16:05:35
115.   the OZ
I'm just waiting to see the headline in the LAT, next to a big picture of a big OF/1B, that says, "Dunn Deal".

And beneath it, a Plachke column about how stupid it was to trade for a player that struck out 190 times last season.

2005-07-01 16:07:32
116.   Benaiah
114 - Arguably Loney, Jackson or Martin are in the top 5, but that is about right. If we trade one of those 5 I wouldn't trade any of the other 7. Delwyn Young, Navarro, Werth, Orenduff, et al instead.
2005-07-01 16:07:34
117.   stubbs
sad thing about dunn is if we are talking about it, no chance it happens. Carl Everett protolling LF is scary. Everett, Bradley and Drew would be the funniest collection of personalities to ever play OF together.
2005-07-01 16:10:55
118.   Steve
First, getting Adam Dunn is not selling under any circumstances, no matter who you give up for him. It's giving up like for like. By giving up YB, you give up a 22 year old one pitch, one inning relief pitcher, to a team that just went through the Danny Graves Era. They're going to think he's Bob Gibson.

Second, Broxton. It's not ideal, of course, but if we sit around and wait until Broxton is "ready" (whatever that means -- better he pitch here than in three months of Las Vegas Hell), Adam Dunn is wearing a goofy-looking bird on his shirt.

2005-07-01 16:12:03
119.   Howard Fox
102-over/under of 6 2/3??

I'll take the over, Penny goes 8

2005-07-01 16:12:13
120.   Steve
Carl Everett = Jeromy Burnitz II. That sounds like a desperate McCourt idea to me. If it's DePo's, then I'm glad I wouldn't have to defend him anymore.
2005-07-01 16:15:22
121.   Xeifrank
118. I don't think anybody said that getting Adam Dunn is selling. You made your post (103) sound like you were "throwing in" YB. If some how you could manage a 1:1 trade with Dunn:YB then yeah don't let the door hit Ghame On on the way out. But if you are going to "throw him in" a trade, I might not be too eager to do that considering how over inflated most closers trade value is for a contending team near the end of the trade deadline. You see a couple of trades like this every year (it seems like).
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 16:18:26
122.   Xeifrank
120. I hope we don't trade for Carl Everett, especially if we had to give up any of our good prospects to get him. He's a decent player but really wouldn't be much of an improvement over Werth, and just imagine what it would do to our chemistry! :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 16:20:24
123.   ruz
If the Dodgers are going to be buyers, do you think they'd consider trading for Ryan Howard?
2005-07-01 16:21:08
124.   Steve
Everett -- blah.

I'm looking at "throwing in" Brazoban trying to reach the minimum which will net us Dunn. I'm not sure, but I think I believe that minimum is significantly higher than most of you.

2005-07-01 16:22:27
125.   bokonon42
Maybe the Dodgers could make a play for Jon Lieber. He's got eight wins (more than any current Dodger) for the Phillies, and with only one HBP and one wild pitch, he must have excellent control. The only thing that worries me about him is that 72% of runners successfully steal against him.
2005-07-01 16:23:33
126.   Steve
125 -- and that superlow K/9 rate, no?
2005-07-01 16:24:18
127.   GoBears
122: Carl Everett WAS a decent player. Now he's garbage. .269/.313/.475 (so OPS of .788) in the best HR park in the AL, and at 34 yrs old. He can't play OF any more. He MIGHT be an adequate platoon partner with Werth, basically a marginal improvement over Grabowski, but not obviously better than Ledee, should he return. I don't see any point.
2005-07-01 16:25:38
128.   GoBears
124. I agree with Steve. I can't believe Dunn won't cost a LOT. And if he doesn't, but we don't get him, then DePo loses lots of points in my book.
2005-07-01 16:26:46
129.   Suffering Bruin
On break at work...

Who's going to the game tomorrow? I'll be there, the first game I'll have seen either live or on television in over a month!

I'm there early for some retail function. Staples is giving away some freebies in the parking lot and after that, it's ballpark time. Stop by and say hello if your there... you'll get a free pen!

2005-07-01 16:29:18
130.   Benaiah
124 - I agree that we are going to pay out the nose for him. However, unless Broxton is ready to step in trading YB would open a big hole. If that is what the Reds really want than by all means, it has been fun Yhency, enjoy the eastern most part of the Midwest. However, talent today is worth more than talent in the future and so it might be better to keep YB than Tiffany, even if Tiffany has a higher ceiling.
2005-07-01 16:30:37
131.   bokonon42
126- Don't quote any of your moneyball witchcraft at me. Wins are the only numbers that count. Lieber's got him, ergo, he's a stud.

P.S. The superlow K/9 means he'll be cheaper. It's win/win!

2005-07-01 16:32:43
132.   Xeifrank
124. I have no doubt that Dunn will cost us dearly. But if you "throw in" Brazoban just out of curiousity who is going to setup and close for us? Usually teams that ARE NOT sellers don't "throw in" their chloser in a thrade.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 16:35:07
133.   Xeifrank
131. Ok, I am confused. Is that a joke or sarcasm.
vr, Xei
2005-07-01 16:35:37
134.   GoBears
130: I'd say Cincy is the northernmost part of the South more than anything else. And if you've ever spent time in Pittsburgh (a great city by the way), you'd know that the Midwest ends east of Cincy.
2005-07-01 16:38:34
135.   Benaiah
I'd say Louisville on the other side of the river is the northernmost part of the south. No place in Ohio can be the South. The Midwest goes all the way to Pittsburg? I just thought it ended with Ohio.
2005-07-01 16:43:18
136.   Benaiah
134 - I am not attempting to be argumentative, the only Midwest state I have spent any length of time in is Illinois and I certainly couldn't tell you were it ends on the Western side.
2005-07-01 16:43:21
137.   Marty
Pittsburgh is the easternmost in quality. Cincy is western most in flavor...
2005-07-01 16:47:06
138.   GoBears
135: By Civil War accounting, and plain geography, you'd be right. But spend some time in Cincinnati. It's the south. So is southern Illinois and a lot of Indiana. These days, the Mason-Dixon line would be north of where it was 150 yrs ago.

And, yes, Pittsburgh, especially with teh decline of the steel industry, seems very midwestern. More like Ohio (which is right next door) than, say, West Virginia. Philly is an Eastern city, but not Pitt. The food, the accents, and the culture of the place are more like Chicago and Cleveland and Detroit than they are like Philly and New York.

2005-07-01 16:48:11
139.   ddger
As soon as Broxton is ready, maybe we should bring him up. He must be better than Carrerra or Osoria. This assuming that Erickson will be gone way before then.
2005-07-01 16:49:35
140.   bokonon42
133- I was being catty. I think anybody here should be allowed to post whatever stats he chooses to. Even if they're stupid, or irrelevant. And I think the L.A. Times's inplicit swipe at Jose Valentin (and if ever there was a player with heart. . .) can be rebutted with more statistics, not by refusing to acknowledge the ones they post.
2005-07-01 16:52:27
141.   natepurcell
the stupid weather is keeping me from seeing kuo pitch today.

stupid rain delays.

2005-07-01 16:53:41
142.   LAT
Just joining the discussion.

On the subject of chemistry I have to agree that it does not make a team materially better, but a team with good chemistry is more fun to watch. When the players get excited its contagious. I also wonder whether it has an impact on players not on the team. Assuming Dunn had a no trade clause (which he doesn't) would he rather go to a team where the players enjoy each others company and are having fun? Or does it make little difference? Before everyone tells me players go where the money is, I know that, but is chemistry a secondary factor and how big a role, if any does it play? Obviously this questions can't be answered because it is different for each player. Ask AJ Pierzynski. For him the chemistry on the White Sox makes all the difference in the world to him compared to the chemistry articulated by Alou today. Moreover, it s moot because you can't artificially create chemistry, like mold it is a naturally occurring phoneme..

This is not unlike the issue of Depo calling players he is unloading to let them know. I know they are adults and this is a business. But if Adam Dunn is debating about the Dodgers and another team and all things being equal does the respect the players are shown by management play a role in his decision making process. Do certain teams develop a player friendly reputation which make them more desirable. Maybe it doesn't matter because there are so many middle-men between the player and the GM.

The issue is one of organization culture. I don't know the answer.

PS As Nancy Reagan says "Just say no to Carl Everett!"

2005-07-01 16:54:31
143.   ddger
Our relievers ERA's.

Carrara (4.29)
Wunsch (4.30)
Brazoban (4.36)
Sanchez (4.40)
Erickson (6.60)
Osoria (6.75)

Is there any other team whose reliever's all have ERA above 4. At least our relievers are consistent.

This shows that we need to score lot of runs because our relievers will give up late inning runs.

Also, Tracy can't go for 1 run leads and hope that our relievers will hold that lead, since Gagne is no longer around.

2005-07-01 16:55:42
144.   bokonon42
Just to be clear, I'm not accusing Steve of trying to censor me. And, in the future, whenever I use the word witch, or any of its derivatives, I'm kidding.
2005-07-01 16:56:56
145.   LAT
BTW, what the hell would Cinci do with Yhancy. They rarly need a closer. Better they should take a pitching prospect who might get them to the point where they need a closer. Cart before the horse stuff.
2005-07-01 16:58:26
146.   Bob Timmermann
So the LA Times waited until I left the country to impinge on my intellectual property rights. I feel so used.

Rained nearly all day in Sendai last night and the Rakuten Eagles were rained out. I figured that getting to the stadium and seeing the lights not on and visibility being about 100 feet being a cue.

It's a nice today, so let's play two! Except they don't do that here. They will just make up the game later even after the season is over and even if the playoff spots are set. They play EVERY game here in Japan whether anybody cares or not.

2005-07-01 16:58:56
147.   LAT
Anyone else going to the game tonight? I'm also going Sunday. Green in town = Daughter making me go twice.
2005-07-01 16:59:06
148.   ddger
I think we need to pick up a relief pitcher before deadline. Our relief pitching is hit or miss these days. Carrera and Sanchez are very erratic. We should try Broxton as our setup man if Carrera/Sanchez can't do it.
2005-07-01 16:59:20
149.   Benaiah
139 - Osoria isn't that bad. His entire ERA can be explained by that one big swing of the bat (3 run homer by Macpherson). He might not be Gagne v2.0 but he has only pitched 5.1 innings. Give him a chance before you lump him in with Gio.
2005-07-01 16:59:24
150.   Marty
I'll take the over on Penny. I think he will get us to the 8th.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-07-01 17:00:46
151.   Benaiah
I am taking the over too. Tracy has been leaving everyone until the 7th lately.
2005-07-01 17:01:57
152.   bokonon42
146- There've got to be a dozen lawyers hanging around here who'd be happy to sue the Times for you. You should get at least as much money out of the Times as the Texan camerman is going to get out of the Rangers.
2005-07-01 17:04:58
153.   Bob Timmermann
The English language paper here in Japan informed that yesterday was Patent Attorney Day in Japan. Maybe I should have asked for some help. Those guys all know IP law. Of course, I never registered anything and all I can get back would be my actual damages, which I believe come out to zero dollars.
2005-07-01 17:05:01
154.   LAT
#146. Bob, your rain check is an excuse to go back.

Those bastards at the Times. They have eyes everywhere. Waiting for you to leave the country--that's bush league. If its any consolation, while I was eating my oatmeal and reading the paper this morning I thought hey they ripped Bob off! I know it and all DT knows it. Letter to the Editor time.

2005-07-01 17:07:11
155.   Marty
LAT. Enjoy the games. Will there be fire works the whole weekend?
2005-07-01 17:09:51
156.   Bob Timmermann
Fortunately, I didn't buy a ticket ahead of time last night. Rain checks are kind of weird here I've found out. You only have a week or so to turn them in. Despite the fact that few games ever sell out.

To be honest, I don't think the LA Times is guilty of any plagiarism since Tim Brown had already mentioned "Ghame Over" in one of his columns, so I look at it as being a generally accepted term. It's part of the everyday parlance of sports now.

2005-07-01 17:13:51
157.   GoBears
156: You're probably right Bob. Unfortunately, Mark Twain will probably get credit for it within a few years. He gets credit for everything.
2005-07-01 17:14:34
158.   Bob Timmermann
A friend and I joke that we attribute all remarks to either Twain, Jefferson or Stalin.
2005-07-01 17:17:10
159.   bokonon42
159- I read somewhere that you can convince anybody of whatever scheme you like if you say Ben Franklin thought of it first. Might have been Mark Twain who wrote it.
2005-07-01 17:17:15
160.   Bob Timmermann
I was just looking at the preview of this game on

The headline is "Dodgers host Diamondbacks to start third series this year"
Hmm, this is the fourth series.

Then there is "The Dodgers try to win consecutive games for the first time in three weeks."

Except for that time last week when the Dodgers won consecutive games.

2005-07-01 17:22:27
161.   Jim Hitchcock
157 - I'm sure you greatly exxagerate...

Taking the over. Now that I've nailed it twice in a row, I'm pretty sure I've got Steve on the ropes.

2005-07-01 17:22:55
162.   Marty
158. And Mencken
2005-07-01 17:23:55
163.   Jim Hitchcock
160 - So I guess yesterday was the last time ESPN will referance Bob...
2005-07-01 17:24:51
164.   LAT
Thanks Marty. Fireworks are only Sunday but you get to go down on the field to watch them. I sat in center field last year and was awed by how big Dodger Stadium is. Very diffrent perspective from down there. Simliarly, you don't realize just how big the outfield is until your standing in it. I found new respect for Bradly--that's a lot of ground to cover.
2005-07-01 17:26:13
165.   heato
In Ryne Sandberg's description of the series this weekend (which he predicts the D-Backs will win two games to one), he says that Brad Penny is "not hot" right now because he has lost three decisions in a row. I guess that it doesn't matter that he has gone at least six innings in all three games and has given up a total of seven runs. Why can't they get writers who do at least 30 seconds of research before they write something?
2005-07-01 17:27:36
166.   Bob Timmermann
The guy who writes that column on used to write it for Slate. He's a SABR member and posted his question there.

Does anyone remember back when the Pirates helmets had fuzz on them? I distinctly remember some of the 1971 Pirates having helmets with some sort of material on them.

I also have an old World Series photo, from 1953 and Jim Gilliam's helmet is falling off as he is sliding into second and his helmet has some sort of fuzz on it.

2005-07-01 17:28:38
167.   Marty
164. Yeah, it is pretty amazing looking back at the stands from the field.
2005-07-01 17:29:23
168.   Marty
Didn't the "We are Family" team have fuzz on the helmets? I think 1979?
2005-07-01 17:35:29
169.   Jim Hitchcock
166 - Looking in Ender's new book at a shot of Billy Martin being tagged at the plate to end Game 4, it looks like Martin was wearing a normal cap, not a helmet.
2005-07-01 17:41:16
170.   Bob Timmermann
Until the mid 1970s, nearly every player would run the bases in a cap, not a helmet. Sometimes guys would have the cap on under the helmet.

Juan Pierre sometimes has a cap under his helmet, but he has a really tiny head.

2005-07-01 17:45:36
171.   Bob Timmermann
I would add that the guys who ran the bases in a helmet tended to be the guys who stole a lot of bases. Since they ran the chance of getting hit in the head by a throw from the catcher. I think Lou Brock always ran with his helmet on.

I think it's mandatory now.

2005-07-01 17:46:31
172.   natepurcell
so the suns game today was postponed.

double header tomorrow, double header on sunday.

2005-07-01 17:49:07
173.   Jim Hitchcock
So, Bob, had a chance to cruise Akihabara?
2005-07-01 17:51:00
174.   Bob Timmermann
Since I haven't been to Tokyo yet, the answer would be no.
2005-07-01 17:57:11
175.   Steve
132 -- I think you are unduly stuck on the words "throw in." That is a term of art. The cost of doing business with the Reds is not going to be cheap. Brazoban has an Izturis factor going for him right now -- he is cheap, young, has one pitch, and can only do one thing -- pitch three outs. Tiffany is not much younger or more advanced, say, than Braz -- Braz has an MLB season under his belt, but relief pitchers are generally less valuable than starters. So the idea is to give them Brazoban instead of having to give them a second starting candidate -- Broxton, Billingsley, etc. If we trade Braz, we are in the same position we were in last year, with the exception that Gagne is injured, which is an independent variable that we just have to live with. The fact is, we don't really have a "closer," and we certainly can't replace the one we had anyway.

So, you include Braz in the Dunn deal, and call up Broxton to close. Again, Broxton may not be "ready"(TM), but if, say, Brazoban is the price of doing business, and we wait, Dunn will be wearing red, or green or orange or brown.

If Dunn goes, I think the odds are very, very high that the price will be higher than I have suggested, and certainly not very much lower.

2005-07-01 17:58:07
176.   Jim Hitchcock
The last words of Deep Impact, the spacecraft
scheduled to collide with comet Temple I this weekend?


2005-07-01 18:01:34
177.   Steve
Randy Johnson, RIP
2005-07-01 18:09:41
178.   Bob Timmermann
The Japanese TV sports people will highlight just one thing in today's rout of the Yankees by the Tigers:

The fact that Hideki Matsui hit a home run.

2005-07-01 18:11:38
179.   Bob Timmermann
Hope everyone enjoys the game tonight. I hope I have an interesting one, although seeing a 20-54 team probably isn't going to be a treat.
2005-07-01 19:17:08
180.   Suffering Bruin
Kent at 1b, Perez at 2b, Edwards at 3b and Choi? Pining away.
2005-07-01 19:24:55
181.   bokonon42
Robles SS
Repko RF
Drew CF
Kent 1B
Werth LF
Perez 2B
Edwards 3B
Philips C

Nothing wrong with that.

2005-07-01 19:25:03
182.   Jon Weisman
Izturis had an MRI and cortisone shot for his hamstring, according to Dodger Dugout. Results were good but he may sit out the series.

That being said, this is a strange starting lineup.

2005-07-01 19:37:06
183.   Marty
If I found a magic lantern and a genie gave me one wish, it would be that I never see Robles in a starting lineup again.
2005-07-01 19:40:15
184.   bokonon42
Edwards earned his spot.
2005-07-01 19:45:29
185.   bokonon42
Robles doesn't.
2005-07-01 19:48:59
186.   Marty
That's the Shawn Green we know and love.
2005-07-01 19:52:29
187.   Marty
How Tracy can put Robles' bat in there and take out Choi's is beyond me. It's not like Robles gives you great defense, as he demonstrated in the first. Put Perez there and Kent at second with Choi at first. Seems a no-brainer unless Choi is hurt.
2005-07-01 19:55:46
188.   patsweetpat
Oh dear. How in the world is this lineup supposed to score even a single run tonight?

And why in the world is Robles leading off?

2005-07-01 19:55:56
189.   Marty
Be nice if Kent can get us on the board here.
2005-07-01 19:56:58
190.   Marty
188. It's Tracy's way of saying "I can beat you with one hand tied behind my back". Unfortunately, he's wrong.
2005-07-01 19:57:43
191.   Mark likes our odds for psychotic bunting tonight. Robles with the leadoff bunt for base hit, only to pop it up directly to the pitcher?
2005-07-01 19:59:03
192.   Marty
Repeat #189. But insert Werth for Kent
2005-07-01 20:00:32
193.   patsweetpat
Seriously, is Robles the leadoff hitter simply because he has a 6 for a position number on the lineup card?

It's not that, right? Please tell me it's not that.

2005-07-01 20:02:09
194.   Marty
I really have no idea why he's in there, or why he's on the team. He doesn't give them a bat or a glove. Maybe he's a good cook.
2005-07-01 20:04:17
195.   patsweetpat
Maybe Robles is Tracy's connection for collectible racist postage stamps.

(Just trying to be topical, here).

2005-07-01 20:06:03
196.   bokonon42
195- Tracy is cool with black people. It's the Koreans he hates.
2005-07-01 20:07:28
197.   heato
Tracy is probably not too fond of Ericksonians.
2005-07-01 20:08:28
198.   Marty
I heard about those stamps. Incredible.
2005-07-01 20:24:01
199.   jpeace
191 - haha~ a real site
2005-07-01 20:25:48
200.   Steve
Good Choi Almighty
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-07-01 20:25:54
201.   bokonon42
It doesn't seem bright to pick a fight with a guy who throws a mid-nineties fastball.

I won't mind a brawl, tonight. Maybe Edwards or Robles can make themselves usefull and charge the mound.

2005-07-01 20:26:24
202.   Jim Hitchcock
You really have to see 'em to believe 'em, Marty:

2005-07-01 20:28:13
203.   bokonon42
The extra L in useful is for extra usefullness.

The extra L in usefullness is a typo.

2005-07-01 20:29:44
204.   Steve
I think that as bad as Robles is leading off, and that is immeasurably bad, Repko batting second is abysmally worse.
2005-07-01 20:29:57
205.   bokonon42
I completely forgot Scrapko was playing tonight. He's the mound charger; look at that goutee. Just need Vazquez to hit him. You know, instead of striking him out.
2005-07-01 20:32:14
206.   Marty
Wow Jim. I'm speechless.
2005-07-01 20:32:21
207.   Steve
So JD Drew is your leadoff man.
2005-07-01 20:36:11
208.   Rob M
Perez (at SS) would be my leadoff man, with Choi second, Repko 8th and Robles in Mexico City.
2005-07-01 20:36:51
209.   Jim Hitchcock
I know, Marty...even posting that felt wrong.
2005-07-01 20:40:13
210.   Steve
They do realize that Speedy Gonzalez is a mouse, right?

Royce Clayton. What a waste of a shortstop...hey, I have an ideaaaa...

2005-07-01 20:41:10
211.   Marty
The thing is, as Pat said, they will become collectible. I'm an antique collector and there is a huge market for anything from the first half of the 20th century that has Aunt Jemima, Stepin Fetchit etc.
2005-07-01 20:41:47
212.   bokonon42
Honest to Choi, I love J.D. Drew.
2005-07-01 20:42:49
213.   patsweetpat

Now let's see if Penny, Gio, Wunsch, and Yhancy can make it stand up.

2005-07-01 20:42:51
214.   Marty
J.D. that Nancy-boy
2005-07-01 20:43:23
215.   Steve
Our leadoff hitter has some pop. But the only pitcher I would ever bat 7th is Weaver -- Penny can't hit.
2005-07-01 20:44:00
216.   Marty
I'd put Weaver out at short instead of Robles.
2005-07-01 20:44:35
217.   patsweetpat
I can understand some hard feelings over Speedy Gonzales. Thing is, that image is (was?) being promulgated by Warner Brothers, not by the United States Postal Service.
2005-07-01 20:44:41
218.   Steve
Weaver at short, Manny Mota in right.
2005-07-01 20:45:46
219.   Steve
217 -- That's not the USPS -- that's the Mexican PS, if I read the article correctly.
2005-07-01 20:46:16
220.   Steve
219 -- never mind, I see what you're saying.
2005-07-01 20:46:37
221.   Marty
It's the Mexican postal service that has to take credit for those stamps.
2005-07-01 20:47:54
222.   Suffering Bruin
I assume we're talking about the new Mexican stamps? I just saw 'em. Holy crap. No one thought they'd raise eyebrows?

By the by, I've never heard the name Nap Lajoie pronounced the way Scully did.

2005-07-01 20:48:01
223.   bokonon42
215- You talking to me? Who's batting Weaver 7th?
2005-07-01 20:48:29
224.   Jim Hitchcock
I actually saw a story yesterday on a food product in India called Handi Ghandi...picture and all. Weird.
2005-07-01 20:49:05
225.   Marty
Lah-jsho-way. I think that's correct.
2005-07-01 20:49:37
226.   bokonon42
German ice-cream: More racist than Mexican postage.

2005-07-01 20:50:14
227.   Steve
We are. This is the batting order, right?

Drew, Kent, Werth, Perez, Edwards, Phillips, Penny.

There's nobody else in the lineup. Right? Right? Please tell me I'm right. Those faint tremors you're feeling are starting 600 miles to your East along the Haskins Fault.

2005-07-01 20:51:12
228.   patsweetpat
216/218: Weaver is handy with that bat (my wife, daughter and I were at Wednesday's game).

Any baseball historians handy who can say if there's a modern-era precedent for an active starter playing a position every 4 games out of 5, while still regularly taking his spot in the starting rotation the other 1 game of 5?

This'd be the sort of thing Bob would know.

2005-07-01 20:51:34
229.   Marty
227. That's it, and I'm worried about Edwards. We have five hitters in a nine-man lineup
2005-07-01 20:52:23
230.   bokonon42
223- I'm scandalized. The first sentance was inside a "De Niro tone" fake html tag. Does anything in greater than, less than signs get axed?
2005-07-01 20:54:18
231.   Steve
Hey, didn't you used to be Craig Counsell?
2005-07-01 20:55:18
232.   Marty
Can you imagine trotting this lineup out against St. Louis, or Florida/Atlanta?
I refuse to acknowledge Washington. They are winning despite the worst manager in baseball.
2005-07-01 20:55:38
233.   patsweetpat
I, personally, have never been worried about Edwards.
2005-07-01 20:55:44
234.   Jim Hitchcock
Give it to Mikey. He can hit anything :)
2005-07-01 20:55:51
235.   Marty
Wow, Edwards has gotten a reprieve from me temporarily.
2005-07-01 20:56:34
236.   Steve
The Royals batted out of order to start their game today, which ends Buddy Bell's honeymoon.
2005-07-01 20:57:45
237.   Steve
I don't think we can afford to be worried about Edwards with Repko, Grabowski, and Ross as the other outfield choices.
2005-07-01 20:57:46
238.   Suffering Bruin
First ball swinging! Wallach is beaming in the dugout.
2005-07-01 20:59:05
239.   Steve
I approve of a bunt here. This is a one-time pass.
2005-07-01 20:59:35
240.   Jim Hitchcock
Ya know, it's kinda cool having SB back.
2005-07-01 21:00:13
241.   Steve
Actually, Penny may have been our best shot there.
2005-07-01 21:00:20
242.   Marty
Squeeze for Robles?
2005-07-01 21:00:44
243.   Jim Hitchcock
239 - Alright, what've you done with the real Steve?
2005-07-01 21:01:11
244.   Jim Hitchcock
2005-07-01 21:01:25
245.   bokonon42
Looks like the best way to indicate fake html is to give it its own line, and reverse the saenz

>like this<

otherwise it disappears. Not very convenient.

In other news, Steve's damnation continues unabated.

2005-07-01 21:01:40
246.   Marty
Funny. I think that's the ONLY way Robles could get a run home. Thank Choi it worked.
2005-07-01 21:01:59
247.   Suffering Bruin
240 - Many thanks... what with the move, ISP Hades and DirecTV people telling me that a trip to Mars is easier than putting the dish on my new apartment, it's been rough without baseball and DT.
2005-07-01 21:02:13
248.   brendan glynn
phillips would have been out. wow, is he slow. good old tracy. I bet he decided to squeeze after the pitch out was called. amazing.
2005-07-01 21:02:31
249.   Langhorne
A successful squeeze play with Phillips; now I've seen everything.
2005-07-01 21:03:09
250.   Suffering Bruin
242 - !!!!!!!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-07-01 21:03:44
251.   Suffering Bruin
Tracy yelled at Robles to swing away but Robles didn't hear him.
2005-07-01 21:03:50
252.   Marty
Robles can't hit, can't field, can't run. He brings a lot to the table...
2005-07-01 21:03:50
253.   Jim Hitchcock
Baserunning 101...when the ball is hit in front of you...
2005-07-01 21:03:52
254.   Steve
Arizona's mistake. That was a two-pitchout situation if I've ever seen one.
2005-07-01 21:04:42
255.   Steve
252 -- But he is a fantastic situational hitter.
2005-07-01 21:05:29
256.   Suffering Bruin
255 - LOL
2005-07-01 21:06:10
257.   jasonungar05
seriously, the LA Dodgers can't have someone better than robles on the roster?
2005-07-01 21:06:52
258.   Suffering Bruin
2005-07-01 21:06:54
259.   Jim Hitchcock
2005-07-01 21:07:12
260.   patsweetpat
I love Steiner. I just do.

Did you hear him make that call?

I know lotsa people hate Steiner, but I love Steiner.

2005-07-01 21:07:13
261.   Langhorne
2005-07-01 21:08:14
262.   bokonon42
I thought I saw Clubhouse Cancer Drew smiling and joking with Scrapko. Must've been taunting him.
2005-07-01 21:08:15
263.   Suffering Bruin
260 - I've got the tv on. What was the call? And by the by, I really like Steiner though I haven't heard him in awhile.
2005-07-01 21:08:28
265.   Steve
2005-07-01 21:08:35
266.   brendan glynn
misplays the ball into the lead on sportscenter. nice
2005-07-01 21:08:49
267.   Marty
Props to Repko. Very scrappy.
2005-07-01 21:08:59
268.   Jim Hitchcock
260 - No doubt, Steiner had it a HR as soon as it left the bat.
2005-07-01 21:09:33
269.   Steve
OK, got it.
2005-07-01 21:09:45
270.   brendan glynn
repko was late breaking on a ball over his head and made a leaping catch right into the wall. hit it really hard.
2005-07-01 21:10:36
271.   Suffering Bruin
Thank heavens for TiVo. Seeing that at regular speed is really something. Heckuva play by Repko.
2005-07-01 21:11:08
272.   Marty
6 Ks in the sixth for Penny. That's encouraging.
2005-07-01 21:11:19
273.   brendan glynn
late reacting is better than late breaking.
2005-07-01 21:11:25
274.   patsweetpat
Suffering Bruin,

Steiner: "Did he make the catch? Did he make the catch?! DID HE MAKE THE CATCH!?!?" (very long pause) "HE MADE THE CATCH!!!"

It kind of eludes text translation. Sorry. But in the moment, it was awesome.

Patrick Meighan
UCLA Class of '95

2005-07-01 21:11:32
275.   Steve
Blacked out for me on EI, so I miss the scrappiness firsthand.

Better than Werth's catch at Coors?

2005-07-01 21:12:20
276.   brendan glynn
he jumped, caught the ball, bounced off the wall and then bounced off the ground.
2005-07-01 21:12:44
277.   Jim Hitchcock
270 - Forgot to mention he hurt his elbow and bruised his goatee.
2005-07-01 21:13:21
278.   brendan glynn

No. but not bad at all. it was the double bounce that made it look cool.

2005-07-01 21:13:42
279.   Steve
Hey, didn't you used to be Troy Glaus?
2005-07-01 21:14:23
280.   Suffering Bruin
274 - thanks for that

275 - tough call. IIRC, Werth saved a homerun in a very big situation. What made this catch something was that Werth had to know he was going to get really, really crunched and he didn't slow down. He was running like he didn't have a second thought. I think I would've at least paused to consider the damage...

2005-07-01 21:15:58
281.   brendan glynn
repko leaped at the ball over his head like someone truying to make a lay up. he was arched out, fully extended. caught the ball mid air and then caught the wall right after that.
2005-07-01 21:16:05
282.   Benaiah
JD Drew since returning from injury: 10 AB, 5 H, 5BB, 1HR. 900 SLG, 667 OBP, 1.567 OPS. Considering how we fared without him, Bradley and for the most part, Choi, it is nice to have him back with a bang.
2005-07-01 21:16:36
283.   jasonungar05
so over on HBO I have my choice of two Stallion classics

Over the Top-which is an endearing story of a Truck Driver-Arm Wrestler and his son and their relationship.

Tango and Cash-Two rival cops (sly and kurt Russell) work together to catch a drug dealer who I think framed them

what freaking year am I in? And where on m TV can I find Cobra?

2005-07-01 21:17:03
284.   Suffering Bruin
283 - Just think what Drew could do if he had heart. Signed, Bill Plaschke.
2005-07-01 21:17:38
285.   Brad Bogner
If Green were still there, he probably would've pondered the damage.
2005-07-01 21:18:11
286.   Suffering Bruin
Tango and Cash?? Thank heavens for Teri Hatcher!
2005-07-01 21:19:56
287.   Jim Hitchcock
283 - Hey, Stallone peaked in `Bananas'. It was all downhill after that.
2005-07-01 21:20:15
288.   brendan glynn

Tango & Cash. Not even close choice.

I think you are watching HBO 1987. switch to HBO West.
Or maybe the Z Channel.

2005-07-01 21:22:14
289.   Steve
285 -- HA! Good thing LAT doesn't seem to be around.

Maybe this lineup is a Tracy cry for help. Something along the lines of "Look what I could do if I had Adam Dunn hitting seventh."

2005-07-01 21:22:18
290.   brendan glynn
anyone remember when some dodger home games were broadcast at ON TV? I was just a little kid but I remember it being a big deal because home games weren't broadcast on t.v. unless it was the game of the week.
2005-07-01 21:22:50
291.   bokonon42
I thought Tango and Cash was the one with the dog. Which one was that?
2005-07-01 21:23:05
292.   Langhorne
I'd like to point out that any injury to Repko on that catch is McCourt's fault for putting those scoreboards on the wall there. A year ago it would have been all padding with pictures of Dodger players on it. Repko might have bounced off Lasorda.
2005-07-01 21:24:03
293.   Steve
Turner and Mountjoy!
2005-07-01 21:24:41
294.   brendan glynn

turner and hooch (I hate myself)

2005-07-01 21:25:22
295.   Suffering Bruin
290 - Ah, memories. I remember folks debating that with the games on TV, it would hurt attendance.
2005-07-01 21:26:31
296.   Brad Bogner
Well, we can all take satisfaction in knowing that half the people at Dodger Stadium can't even see the scores on the board Repko plowed through.
2005-07-01 21:27:17
297.   patsweetpat
283: Best thing about "Over the Top": not only is Stallone a semi-professional arm-wrestler, he's an arm-wrestler with a secret move. An intricate maneuver that only he knows. 'Cause, of course, there's lots of room for innovation and strategy in arm-wrestling.

Second best thing about "Over the Top": theme song sung by Kenny Loggins.

2005-07-01 21:27:38
298.   Suffering Bruin
HBOS has "10".
2005-07-01 21:28:06
299.   brendan glynn

exatly. baseball on t.v was a luxury. Monday Night Baseball was huge. I recall Freddie Patek hitting three hr one night on MNB.

2005-07-01 21:28:44
300.   Jim Hitchcock
Funny, Z channel reminded me of when I had SelecTV. Still remember my first pay movie (Gallipoli), still have the antenna mounted on my roof!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-07-01 21:28:59
301.   Suffering Bruin
297 - would you hate me if I told you that I paid to see "Over the Top"? I hate myself...

I'll never forget the audience literally rolling with laughter about that secret move bit.

2005-07-01 21:29:07
302.   Langhorne
283 Some of 'Over the Top' was filmed in Tracy's adopted home town. The Claremont Colleges are used a lot in the summer, especially if they need old, Eastern, institutional looking buildings.
2005-07-01 21:30:18
303.   bokonon42
Oh yeah. Man I love dog movies. Has there ever been a bad dog movie?
2005-07-01 21:30:30
304.   brendan glynn

Oh the Humanity

2005-07-01 21:31:38
305.   Jim Hitchcock
302 - And unicycles.
2005-07-01 21:31:46
306.   Suffering Bruin
303 - I can't watch Sounder without a very large crying towel.
2005-07-01 21:32:18
307.   Steve
Last time we saw Claremont was on Gilmore Girls, pretending to be Yale.
2005-07-01 21:32:43
308.   bokonon42
301- It had to have been a good date movie, right? Thanks to Stalone movies and wine coolers, no man ever needs to be lonely.
2005-07-01 21:33:43
309.   Steve
305 -- Tons of unicycles. Unicycles everywhere. We used to have to jump out of the way whenever we ran across the Muddster Unicycle Gang of Death.
2005-07-01 21:33:52
310.   patsweetpat
303: "Has there ever been a bad dog movie?"

Yes. "Muriel's Wedding."

(rim shot)

But you know, folks...

2005-07-01 21:34:14
311.   Suffering Bruin
2005-07-01 21:34:40
312.   Jim Hitchcock
Steve might've wanted to sit this one out...
2005-07-01 21:34:54
313.   bokonon42
Did the Grabowski principle just get a new namesake?
2005-07-01 21:35:13
314.   Landonkk
292 - I'm pretty sure those were there before McCourt came along. I know that they aren't new this year.

Go Robles!

2005-07-01 21:35:40
315.   Marty
Just got back from a break. A fireworks show erupted in my neighborhood.

Robles double????

2005-07-01 21:35:59
316.   Steve
He didn't bunt!
2005-07-01 21:36:20
317.   Jim Hitchcock
309 - Plus building walls designed for parking them!
2005-07-01 21:36:50
318.   Benaiah
Wow our stellar combo of Phillips, Edwards and Robles combining for 3 runs. Nice job boys! I still think that Robles should be sent back to Mexico for the cash.
2005-07-01 21:36:55
319.   bokonon42
This is the best game since the first of the 1988 World Series.
2005-07-01 21:36:57
320.   Suffering Bruin

Everybody who can make an out is hitting for extra bases.

2005-07-01 21:36:58
321.   Jim Hitchcock
Repeat 312.
2005-07-01 21:37:19
322.   Marty
OK, this is officially a Bizarro game. Robles and Repko doubles? Sheesh. It should be great for the chemistry tohugh.
2005-07-01 21:37:27
323.   Steve

Why is Vazquez still pitching?

2005-07-01 21:37:32
324.   ddger
Do we have any complete games from our starting pitching this year. Maybe, we'll get out 1st from Penny. I guess the weird lineup is paying off for Tracy. I guess he got lucky tonight.
2005-07-01 21:38:01
325.   Langhorne
Tracy is brilliant! I didn't think Robles would have two RBI for the season let alone one game. Then he's driven in by Repko. I need to lay down.
2005-07-01 21:38:01
326.   alex 7
guess we can go ahead and trade Guzman after all.
2005-07-01 21:38:25
327.   Steve
A two-out double to Robles is clearly GP material.
2005-07-01 21:38:31
328.   Jim Hitchcock
315 - We have those in my neighborhood also. There usually accompanied by helicopters.
2005-07-01 21:39:15
329.   Benaiah
318 make that 4 runs counting Repko. So basically, all of the banjos got hot on the same night. This is a fluke Tracy, please don't read into this!
2005-07-01 21:39:26
330.   Steve
If I'm not mistaken, the stats look something like this

Izturis June RBI: 0
Robles July RBI: 2

2005-07-01 21:39:54
331.   Marty
You can't hope to control Tracy. You only hope to contain him...
2005-07-01 21:41:21
332.   Nagman
I felt the season turn around with Repko's scrappy catch.
2005-07-01 21:41:37
333.   Suffering Bruin
Good ole LOOGY's.
2005-07-01 21:41:53
334.   Landonkk
SD loses to SF.

Don't look now boys, but we're about to be 4.5 out.

2005-07-01 21:41:55
335.   patsweetpat
Steiner just used the word "zaftig."

I say again, I love Steiner.

2005-07-01 21:42:24
336.   bokonon42
Giants beat the Padres.
2005-07-01 21:42:40
337.   Marty
Gnats beat SD? That's the bestnews tonight.
2005-07-01 21:43:41
338.   Suffering Bruin
It's over in SD. Giants beat 'em, 3-2.
2005-07-01 21:43:46
339.   Nagman
Not seen on Gameday was JT Snow making a great play robbing Blum of a leadoff hit in the bottom of the ninth.
2005-07-01 21:43:58
340.   ddger
Tracy should be thankful that Izzy is hurt so that he didn't have to bat him leadoff. We are finally getting some production after a whole month of non production.
2005-07-01 21:44:15
341.   brendan glynn

I bet tracy says that tonight.

2005-07-01 21:44:25
342.   Benaiah
Edwards has a BABIP of 333 which is high, but if you put it down to 300 it would only bring him down to 290. I am not saying he is great. But a IF/OF utility player who can hit 290-320 isn't an Erickson on the roster.
2005-07-01 21:44:33
343.   Suffering Bruin
Okay, so I was fourth with that news?
2005-07-01 21:44:49
344.   bokonon42
If the dodgers win tonight, they take sole posession of second place, right?
2005-07-01 21:45:07
345.   Langhorne

They are new this season.

2005-07-01 21:48:16
346.   alex 7
have an at bat Kent.
2005-07-01 21:48:19
347.   Jim Hitchcock
O.K. That's it. This is an official scrappy game.
2005-07-01 21:48:45
348.   Benaiah
342 - Meanwhile if Perez had a BABIP like Edwards he would be hitting 256. If he hit 300 on balls in play he would be hitting 230. Perez has a freakish LD% and he is fast, but he is due for some serious regression.
2005-07-01 21:48:57
349.   Marty
wow. We are really catching this team on the downside. Let's take 3!
2005-07-01 21:49:19
350.   Suffering Bruin
All with two out, right?
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-07-01 21:49:19
351.   Steve
347 -- Just as well that we're going to win it then.
2005-07-01 21:49:32
352.   ddger
We should start saving some of our runs for tomorrow.
2005-07-01 21:50:28
353.   Benaiah
352 - I don't think that this plan comes with rollover runs.
2005-07-01 21:50:47
354.   Steve
Hey, didn't you used to be the Arizona bullpen?


OK. My mistake.

2005-07-01 21:50:54
355.   Mark Linsey
344-No, we were one back going into tonight, a win would put us even with the Snakes.
2005-07-01 21:52:16
356.   Jim Hitchcock
For those of you not viewing the game, J.D. Drew just patted another player on the butt.

Even J.D. can feel it.

2005-07-01 21:52:18
357.   ddger
353. Too bad. That's the only reason why I'm still with Cingular.
2005-07-01 21:53:33
358.   Suffering Bruin
OTL Nightly on ESPN: "George Steinbrenner's Health"

Because if it's not Yankees, it's just not news.

2005-07-01 21:53:59
359.   bokonon42
355- Thanks; I looked it up right after I wrote it. I was hoping no one would notice.
2005-07-01 21:54:06
360.   Benaiah
357 - All I need are nights and weekends.
2005-07-01 21:55:03
361.   Langhorne
The Dodgers haven't scored this many runs since June 5th.
2005-07-01 21:56:19
362.   Suffering Bruin
I was there for Brad's last shutout, by the by. A sign in leftfield said "Fire DePodesta".
2005-07-01 21:57:02
363.   Suffering Bruin
361 - Does that include all games played since June 5th?


Thanks, I'm here all week.

2005-07-01 21:59:45
364.   Steve
362 -- If you're talking about last August, he only pitched 8 - Gagne came in and gave up two in the ninth. I should know. I was in aisle 13 having kittens.
2005-07-01 22:01:32
365.   Suffering Bruin
364 - Yeah, I just looked it up because I thought I did not recollect correctly. My best friend and were in the left field pavillion, the only people cheering for Penny. Ross was seriously booed that night.
2005-07-01 22:03:30
366.   Suffering Bruin
Did I hear that right? Saturday day game followed by a Sunday night game?
2005-07-01 22:05:07
367.   Steve
Easily one of my top 10 Dodger games. Probably as excited as I'd been in 6/7 years Dodger-wise. It may have just been the feeling that when it came to trading Mota, it was better late than never.
2005-07-01 22:05:44
368.   ddger
It's nice to be winning big. It seems like in the last month every win is precarious at the end but tonight it looks like that we can coast and enjoy the chatting
2005-07-01 22:06:13
369.   Jim Hitchcock
366 - Yeah, because of the holiday.
2005-07-01 22:07:08
370.   Suffering Bruin
Every time Grabo comes up, Scully says the best thing you can say about him: "It's a tough job being a pinch-hitter."
2005-07-01 22:07:19
371.   ddger
366. Yup, that's right. I wonder what the scheduler was thinking. It must be for TV.
2005-07-01 22:08:37
372.   Suffering Bruin
369 - I thought that, too but with the holiday on Monday... I don't know, I just found it curious.
2005-07-01 22:08:59
373.   Langhorne

Tomorrow is a Fox game of the week. Sunday they're having fireworks after the game which wouldn't be nearly as viewable if it were a 1 o'clock start.

2005-07-01 22:09:05
374.   Jim Hitchcock
Robles continues tonight's refutation of DT posters.
2005-07-01 22:09:45
375.   Steve
Brandon Medders on Gameday looks like Jeff Weaver's Harvey Mudd roommate, complete with unicycles.
2005-07-01 22:09:49
376.   Suffering Bruin
Robles is having a season tonight.
2005-07-01 22:10:41
377.   ddger
This is one our better games this season. Great pitching, good defense, small and smart ball, timely hitting with RIPS and 2 outs. Why can't we play like this all the time?
2005-07-01 22:11:10
378.   Suffering Bruin
373 - Ah. I thought they would have the fireworks thang on Monday but I gotta admit I don't even know if they're playing or at home on Monday.
2005-07-01 22:11:21
379.   bokonon42
Horrible call; strike three was ankle high.
2005-07-01 22:13:35
380.   Langhorne
The Dodgers have scored 7 or more runs;

8 times in April
6 times in May
1 time in June

I hope tonight is a good omen for July.

2005-07-01 22:13:54
381.   ddger
I would like to have seen Penny get a complete game shutout, which is so rare these days.
2005-07-01 22:14:37
382.   Benaiah
Well Penny goes a stellar 8, destroying the Over/Under. Did anyone go under?
2005-07-01 22:14:54
383.   ddger
Last dodger pitcher with complete game shutout was Weaver on 4/17.
2005-07-01 22:15:18
384.   Suffering Bruin
Night all.

Again, anybody at the ballpark tomorrow, stop by the Staples booth before the game, wherever that's going to be. Otherwise, let's keep it going!

2005-07-01 22:17:21
385.   brendan glynn
I'm in favor of the unbalanced schedule. Viva Nl West.
2005-07-01 22:17:26
386.   ddger
Vinny's again talking about scheduling and flights but everybody does it and you can't use that as excuse.
2005-07-01 22:18:13
387.   Benaiah
I was just poking around on the HardballTimes stat page and discovered this interesting fact: Weaver has an 8 to 1 FB/GB ratio. In 34 AB weird things happen, but considering his miniscule SLG and decent AVG I find that surprising.
2005-07-01 22:18:57
388.   Benaiah
387 - Um that is a GB/FB ratio. sorry. 8 makes perfect sense.
2005-07-01 22:24:23
389.   Jim Hitchcock
The kids done good tonight.
2005-07-01 22:26:30
390.   Steve
2005-07-01 22:37:48
391.   bokonon42
Be glad you're not watching the SCSR, Steve. Under the naration, "How serious are the Dodgers about trading for a big bat?" was video of Preston Wilson.
2005-07-01 22:43:13
392.   Jim Hitchcock
391 - Adam Dunn seems to be the choice.
2005-07-01 22:47:16
393.   Langhorne
On SportsCenter they showed Repko's catch but called him Mike Repko. If there is any name on the Dodgers that's easy to remember it's Jason.
2005-07-01 22:47:16
394.   LAT
Life is cruel: ESPN showed the Repko catch twice, commented on what a great play it was and then twice referred to him as "Mike Repoko." Brutal. You finally make the big time and they get your name wrong. Can you imagine what his teammates will do with that?
2005-07-01 22:48:28
395.   bokonon42
Yeah; and it sounds like all it would take is Derek Thompson and Edwin Jackson. My faith in the SCSR folks knowing anything is pretty weak.
2005-07-01 22:50:09
396.   bokonon42
395 was in response to 392.
2005-07-01 22:55:35
397.   brendan glynn
7-0 shutout of AZ , Penny looking great, Frisco beats Peavy and SD 3-2.

With D. Lowe going tomorrow. Not a bad start to the weekend at all.

2005-07-01 22:58:34
398.   brendan glynn

Kennedy made me cringe when he suggested thompson and edwin for Dunn. I'm hoping he just blanked on the rest of the names.

Would you add Odalis to a trade for Dunn to save some of the studs in AA. It's a risk but I think Tiffany and Company project higher than Odlais. I don't think it would be sacrificing this season either.

2005-07-01 23:02:35
399.   brendan glynn
I'm torn. I have nothing else to say but only 1 comment away from 400. Plus 1 comment would give me the cycle.
2005-07-01 23:02:58
400.   brendan glynn
Had to be done.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-07-01 23:04:10
401.   Fearing Blue
Great game tonight. Though I'm still bitter about Choi sitting (arm angles?), it's nice to see the little guys step up. I had to watch on tape delay, so I missed out on the game chat.

When it comes to what prospects we should include for Dunn, I defer to Nate, whose proposals I have generally agreed with. He has a great understanding of our system, and like me, is willing to part with significant pieces, but not studs. If the Reds won't send us Dunn without guys we don't want to trade then we shouldn't make the trade. After this season, Dunn's not going to be cheap, and his defense in LF is such that it significantly hurts his overall value. His defense at first isn't that great either. I firmly believe that we're on the cusp of 90's Yankees type dominance, assuming we don't waste it pushing a injury-depleted team into a first round playoff loss.

Nice game in Las Vegas tonight. Check out the pitching lines in the boxscore. Both Stults and Schmoll pitched well and could be bullpen contributors this year. Between Stults, Thompson, and Houlton, next year we may be able to fill two starting rotation slots internally better than what is available on the free agent market.

2005-07-01 23:21:21
402.   bokonon42
398- I wondered about trading Odalis yesterday, or the day before. Nobody called me crazy, but nobody took up the banner, either. Houlton and Dessens in the five man rotation? I think I threw-up in my mouth a little. But the Reds already have Eric Milton in the highly-paid-underperforming-lefty-starter role. How many of those can they be looking for?
2005-07-01 23:25:49
403.   natepurcell
i saw the SCSR where kennedy mentioned thompson and jackson.

i laughed. I mean, if the reds reallly reallllly want blue chipper thompson, i guess we can let him go for adam dunn.

i wonder, since thompson has shown he can pitch in the majors, is he really that big of a commodity to other teams? if so a thompson, jackson and navarro package for dunn is a very very tanalizing package for the reds.

they get thompson, who is the polar opposite of milton and wont give up the long ball and be an immediate impact. they get thier blue chip catcher of the future to replace the aging and sucking larue. and they get thier top pitching prospect who although has regressed this year, still has the great arm and stuff.

i think it might work because obrien is that stupid.

2005-07-01 23:30:14
404.   natepurcell
i mean, anyone who gives eric milton that terrible contract given the context that he gives up an abnormal amount of homeruns and whos home park is a homerun park, does not have any human intelligence whatsoever.

i could do a better job at GM than obrien.

2005-07-01 23:31:52
405.   LAT
Was at the game tonight. Fun game especially the squeeze. I love to watch Jayson Phillips run. Makes me feel like Michael Johnson.

I have a serious question. Many of you know I am a Shawn Green sympathizer. I recognize he was grossly overpaid, did not live up to expectation the last two years and last year in particular was un-clutch. But the guy did have 42 and 49 HR seasons and was a fan favorite for many years. So why is the guy suddenly booed so roundly. Its not just when he comes to the plate its even when he catches a fly ball in the outfield. Its second only to Barry. Except for 2004 the guy was loved when he was here. Even if he wasn't loved he wasn't hated. So why the reaction now? I just don't get the strong negative reaction. My daughter asks me why and I don't have an answer. Without the hyperbole could someone explain it to me.

2005-07-01 23:56:01
406.   Anteater
Us paying 10 million of Green's salary is why I booed him tonite at the game in addition to all the double plays and weak ground outs to second base he used to hit and his lack of hustle in the outfield- all while being paid as much as Barry Bonds
2005-07-01 23:56:18
407.   bigcpa
405- It's because the vocal majority of Dodger fans are often ignoramuses. I was at Green's first game here and I applauded him. I didn't get the boos at all. Recall 2001 when Sheffield called out everyone and their mom in the papers, demanded a trade and still got a standing O on opening day.
2005-07-01 23:57:16
408.   Jim Hitchcock
Don't look to me for an explanation, LAT. I don't boo anyway (nor will I toss beachballs or do the freakin wave), but one the of the things that truly aggravates me is when so called fans boo a player who has returned in a different uniform. I think some of these people just think it is fun (???), and for the rest it's just the herd instinct :)

For some reason I'll always remember Todd Worrell getting booed as the players were being introduced on opening day of his last season. I remember the look on his face. Yeah, I know it comes with the territory, but there's really no reason to treat players like that.

2005-07-01 23:58:46
409.   Jim Hitchcock
Also what Bigcpa said.
2005-07-02 00:04:33
410.   bokonon42
I think 408 is especially right about the herd mentality. There are guys and women like 406 who actually dislike the guy, and then there are twenty-thousand people who are there for the beachballs and dodger dogs. It's a bad mix. But, it means that three-million plus people show up every year, so it's good for the team, overall.

It's why the stereotypical L.A. fan theory isn't exactly wrong, just incomplete. There really may be more people coming late and leaving early, but it's mostly because there are just more people.

2005-07-02 00:14:12
411.   Dodgerkid
I was at the game too. Speaking of boos, McCourt was shown on the screen and roundly booed.

As to trading Thompson and Jackson for Dunn I would do it in a heartbeat. Thompson is a young Darren Dreifort, with a rapidly approaching knee surgery, Jackson is a failed prospect. I don't think we should give up on this season yet, and we need a bat to replace Milton who I have a feeling will be out for the year. Sometimes the future needs to be dropped for the now.

2005-07-02 00:18:32
412.   natepurcell
Thompson is a young Darren Dreifort, with a rapidly approaching knee surgery, Jackson is a failed prospect

well i disagree with some of that, but i get your point. i still have hope for jackson.

2005-07-02 00:18:46
413.   bokonon42
I don't hate McCourt, but I can see the fun in booing him. Also, anytime a politician is at a game, he or she should be booed. American Idol contestants should be booed. More as I think of them. . .
2005-07-02 00:24:17
414.   Jim Hitchcock
...Tommy Lasorda should be booed (as hubris always should be). Jay Johnstone impersonating Tommy Lasorda SHould be cheered...
2005-07-02 00:26:44
415.   LAT
406-410. Thanks Anteater, Big, Jim and Bokonon. Anteater even if your explination is difficult to hear I understand it. I think you are all correct, especially about the herd mentality. My questions above was getting too long so I omitted this: Tonight, trying to get an understanding of the reaction, I turned to the guy behind me and asked why he was booing he said he really didn't know, just cause everyone else was.

So Anteater as best I can tell you started it and everyone else followed your lead. :)
Seriouly though, its not his fault that we are paying $10M of his salary. That was Depo's call. The weak ground outs were only after the shoulder injury. In any event it was a huge contract, too big for anyone's good. I just don't think booing him is a fair response but I get it.

2005-07-02 00:30:19
416.   LAT
411 Kid, did you see where Frank caught a foul ball and then heaved it into the stands. Ball didn't go too far. Talk about getting booed. The guy is just a weenie and the fans seem to know it.
2005-07-02 00:33:07
417.   Jim Hitchcock
416 - He caught another one? The same thing happened on the last homestand.
2005-07-02 00:34:22
418.   bokonon42
415- The needless-to-say aspect of the whole thing is: booing is fun! It doesn't take that much to get people to boo. Booing is a hoot and a half.
2005-07-02 00:36:23
419.   Jim Hitchcock
418 - That pretty much sums up why wrestling is where it is in our culture :)
2005-07-02 00:39:13
420.   LAT
Holly crap!!! HBO is running Tango and Cash again. HBOSW is showing "10." So late 70s early 80s. A little better than I remembered.
2005-07-02 00:41:05
421.   bokonon42
"Every new generation constitutes a wave of savages who must be civilized by their families, schools and churches."

-Mark Twain, if I recall

2005-07-02 00:44:04
422.   LAT
Yeah, I get it. But, I'm just not someone to boo unless its a specific play or someone is arguing a call. I need a specific reason to boo, as opposed to a general one.

Jim, did Frank throw it like a girl that time too?

One nice thing about the game tonight, traffic was better than I have ever seen it. Right in and right out.

2005-07-02 00:47:24
423.   LAT
Didn't Steve say in an earlier post that everything was written by Twain, maybe it was you Bokonon.
2005-07-02 00:49:14
424.   Jim Hitchcock
Didn't see the throw, LAT. Was read DT and looked up when Vinny mentioned it.
2005-07-02 00:53:10
425.   bokonon42
It was Bob, live from Japan. I was hiding behind that since I didn't want to admit to knowing that little gem from Robert Bork's Slouching Towards Gomorrah, by heart.
2005-07-02 00:54:30
426.   bokonon42
Steve Henson finds a sinner, in today's LA Times:

"Some close to the Dodgers believe the team would be well-served by moving Kent from second to first permanently."

2005-07-02 00:57:59
427.   regfairfield
While I may have booed Shawn Green when I was at the game, I also booed him when he was on the Dodgers, so I feel justified.
2005-07-02 00:58:00
428.   Jim Hitchcock
Ah, yes, Robert Bork. The guy who wouldn't allow his kids to play rock & roll at home because it was `subversive'.
2005-07-02 00:59:16
429.   Jim Hitchcock
427 - Guess that would make you an equal opportunistic booer, eh?
2005-07-02 01:03:26
430.   bokonon42
428- Would rock & roll be any fun if it weren't? Really, would you rather listen to the Stones, or Herman's Hermits?
2005-07-02 01:07:29
431.   bokonon42
I really don't want to proselytize; but I dig Robert Bork. I wouldn't vote for him for any office, and I don't think I'd want him for a father, but his books are great fun.
2005-07-02 01:09:07
432.   bokonon42
And he's only on my mind today because Sandra Day retired. If Karl Rove is really in charge of the world, he'll have Bork appointed to fill the seat. Because, after he's defeated, anyone put up for a seat will look moderate by comparison.
2005-07-02 01:13:22
433.   LAT
Sorry bokonon can't let you get a shot at the cycle at 1 am. I went to see Brok speak about a year after the confirmation hearings, he was actually very funny and a lot more self aware than I expected. But Karl Rove or otherwise, Bork's day is over even as a shill.
2005-07-02 01:14:05
434.   Jim Hitchcock
English band? Well, maybe the Kinks (Arthur is a particular favorite. American band? Allman Bros.

And I do know what you mean, Bokonon...watching the Brian Lamb interviews of Bork on C-Span when reviewing his books is a lot of fun.

2005-07-02 01:24:39
435.   bokonon42
I don't think it would ever occur to me to ask for any athlete's autograph. But if I ever meet either Bork or Brian Lamb I definitely will.
2005-07-02 01:28:05
436.   natepurcell
heh, turner and hooch is on one of the movie channels on direct tv.. if anyone is up.

i realy like that movie.....

2005-07-02 01:30:15
437.   Jim Hitchcock
Lamb is certainly a national treasure, in my mind (though he comes off as a pretty humble guy). Certainly the only interviewer who actually reads all those books.
2005-07-02 01:30:43
438.   LAT
At the other end of the spectum Over the Top is on HBOFW. Is this bad Sly Stalone movie night. I guess that would require more than just a night, maybe a week.
2005-07-02 01:33:36
439.   Jim Hitchcock
Don't see it, Nate. Anyway, I'm watching `The Rat Pack'.
2005-07-02 01:37:24
440.   natepurcell
channel 530. its just starting to get good where hooch moves in with tom hanks
2005-07-02 01:38:12
441.   Jim Hitchcock
Really, really bad would have to include Oscar and Stop! Or I'll Shoot You, LAT.

On the other hand, Copland was a terrific movie, so it's not like the guy doesn't have some chops.

2005-07-02 01:40:10
442.   Jim Hitchcock
Okay, I don't get 530. Part of the Starz package?
2005-07-02 01:41:27
443.   natepurcell
maybe. its the "mystery" channel.

im watching while fantasizing of ways of ripping off obrien for dunn.

2005-07-02 03:23:06
444.   Bob Timmermann
Will I be allowed back in the country if the Dodgers continue to win?
2005-07-02 03:56:35
445.   Improbable88
444-No. The way I see it, you can still post from Japan and we won't see you at the games anyways, combatting beach balls and profanity. So, if you wanna tell one of us where you live and which rock the key is under, we'll take care of the cats and tape the playoffs for ya! See you in November!
2005-07-02 07:28:31
446.   Steve
Thompson and Jackson for Dunn is crazy talk. Add two more names at least out of Navarro, Werth, Perez, Martin.
2005-07-02 07:31:58
447.   Steve
The Padres traded Darrell May and Tim Redding for Paul Quantrill. Two crappy pitchers for one crappy pitcher = addition by subtraction
2005-07-02 08:06:39
448.   Fearing Blue
Kevin Pearson of the Press Enterprise with today's cut-and-paste "Leadership" article posing as journalism:

2005-07-02 08:08:29
449.   Fearing Blue
#447: Exactly. The Padres could have traded Darrell May and Tim Redding for a roast beef sandwich and they would have made out like bandits. I wonder who the Padres are going to use to fill their gaping chasm of a 5th starter while Eaton is on the DL.
2005-07-02 08:11:31
450.   Fearing Blue
Last night Ogden won 13 - 0, behind a strong starting performance from Brent Leach. Sergio Pedroza broke his streak of getting on base to start professional career. On the night, he went 3 for 4 with a walk. He's now 9 for 10 with 2 HRs and 2 walks since joining Ogden.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-07-02 08:13:17
451.   Fearing Blue
#451: Make that 3 walks. He's one in each of his three games.
2005-07-02 08:15:54
452.   Steve
448 -- Wow. That was really stupid garbage. Kevin Pearson's Los Angeles Times Job Application.

My favorite part is when he bemoans that Jason Repko can't be the leader.

2005-07-02 08:38:05
453.   Suffering Bruin
448 - Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Thing is, as much as we critique the press about this leadership crap, I think they're just echoing what they hear in the clubhouse. Protection, clutch-hitting, chemistry... it's not just the press that talks about this. I think the players do, too. I think the guys in uniform truly believe that Darin Erstad is invaluable.

2005-07-02 08:47:16
455.   Fearing Blue
#453: Except for Jeff Kent, who is quickly becoming my favorite Dodger for telling it like it is:

"I don't put a whole lot of value in leadership," second baseman Jeff Kent said. "It doesn't swing a bat, throw pitches or catch the ball. Leadership doesn't mean ...."

2005-07-02 09:06:16
456.   Marty
#454, MIA
2005-07-02 10:35:55
457.   Howard Fox
446 and re: trade talk for Dunn -

you heard it here first, in my humble opinion, of course, if there is a trade for a player such as Dunn, the centerpiece from the Dodgers will be Izturis, and not what they consider to be their prized minor leaguers...

I could envision Izturis and Choi for Dunn, with a couple of throw ins perhaps

2005-07-02 10:45:50
458.   heato
457 -- Would the Dodgers put Perez at SS and put Edwards (and Valentin when he returns) at 3B?
2005-07-02 10:58:49
459.   jpeace
A.Perez doesn't look too good at SS. Assuming Izturis can get on base once in a while, Cesar is the best SS in the NL. There is not way the Dodgers would trade him and eat up Dunn's contract instead.
2005-07-02 10:59:21
460.   Fearing Blue
#457: I absolutely agree with you Howard. If I had to put together a deal for anyone substantial, I would use Izturis as the centerpiece. Izturis and Choi plus a B-level pitching prospect prospect for Dunn seems like it would be pretty fair for both parties. If the Dodgers go for Dunn, it would probably be as a first baseman, which would make Choi expendable.
2005-07-02 11:01:32
461.   Benaiah
457 - I don't think you are right about that. One thing that is always mentioned is making room on the 40 man roster (though someone posted here that we might be fine this year anyway) and that trade would only open up one spot. Plus, Cinci has Lopez who is tearing it up at SS so they have no need for sub 700 OPS players. Unless O'brien is crazier than Paradise's Lost's contract I think he is asking for big prospects (Billingsley, Guzman or Laroche) not mediocre or flawed mlb players.
2005-07-02 11:04:03
462.   Benaiah
460 - The Dodgers are stacked with corner infield prospects, but very thin in the OF. I think that if Dunn comes to LA he won't be playing 1B, at least not for long. Also, I don't think that we are going to get Dunn for anything like a fair price. We are going to have to overpay big time (though I remember the Astros acquiring Beltran for peanuts).
2005-07-02 11:04:54
463.   Fearing Blue
#458: If Valentin comes back with nearly full mobility, I would play him at SS. His range numbers last year were very good. Otherwise, we can probably play some combination of Robles and Perez at SS. A lineup with Robles and Dunn is going to be stronger than a lineup with Izturis and Choi.

#459: That kind of belief (i.e. "best SS in the NL") is why the Dodgers would trade him. He's going to be a perennial .675 - .715 OPS hitter and he's only better than average defensively. Longterm, he's just a bit above average, but his value is tremendous. Sell high, right?

2005-07-02 11:07:43
464.   Fearing Blue
#462: Adam Dunn is a butcher in LF. He's one of the big reasons the Reds have the second lowest DER in the NL. Felipe Lopez is another, which is why O'Brien should / would consider getting a good defensive SS. Lopez can move over to 2B and Ryan Freel can move back into his more appropriate Utility role.
2005-07-02 11:09:15
465.   Fearing Blue
#464: Additionally, the Dodgers don't have strong 1B prospects at this point. Loney and Dunlap are both struggling in their respective leagues. Choi is the likeliest answer, but we'd actually have to play him regularly to find out.
2005-07-02 11:20:29
466.   Benaiah
465 - Good points. I still don't know if Dunn will stay at first, as we will need to bolster our OF in the future. Maybe we can lock up Bradley for a bargain due to his anger and injuries. I would love to see Milton in Blue for a long time to come.
2005-07-02 11:37:11
467.   KAYVMON
466 - Well have a lot of home field advantage in being able to sign Bradley long term, but I dont think hell come cheap. Just look at the Yankee blogs for an example of other teams that would spend the money to acquire a young switch hitting athletic center fielder.
2005-07-02 11:48:02
468.   Benaiah
467 - He will be in demand, though the difference between the Yankees blogs and the Yankees front office is stark. The Yankees are the anti moneyball crowd. They basically just pay whoever had a good year last year without consideration of the future. The examples of this are so common (Wright, Pavano, Womack, Sheffield instead of Vlad, Giambi et al) that I think that they might overlook someone like Bradley. I think Milton might sign something like 5 years 35 (I might be lowballing) which would lock him up for alot of his most productive years.
2005-07-02 12:02:17
469.   Fearing Blue
#468: My guess is that you're low. I would expect $6.5 - $7.5 million next year for his last arbitration year and then $9 million / year after that. Considering he's young and a defensive asset in CF, he may get something like a 5-year $45 million contract.
2005-07-02 12:13:05
470.   LAT
While i believe this would be the time to move Ceasar, I can't believe that Strick & Co. would let Frank take the PR hit for trading away our gold glove and (maybe) all-star SS. The Times and the "average" fan would go on a tirade of LaDuca/Mota proportions. May be a good move but can't see it happenning for PR reasons. The public barley knows who these minor leaguers are, thus they can move as many as they need to without the fallout (except here of course).
2005-07-02 12:24:39
471.   Benaiah
469 - My first guess was 9 million a year. However, between injuries and meltdowns he could make slightly less. He only got 2.5 million in arbitration this year, but no doubt he would have gotten more without issues. I bet that he will only get 6 or so in arbitration this year and take a contract similar to Johnny Damon (I can't find the entire thing, but he is making around 8 a year).
2005-07-02 12:29:35
472.   LAT
This is unlike Jon not to open game thread 1/2 hour before game time. I hope everything on his end is okay.
2005-07-02 12:37:39
473.   brendan glynn
Cincy cannot and will not accept only minor league talent for Dunn, no matter how much those minor leaguers are celebrated(cincy isn't bold enough and they would lose their jobs before the players are ready to play). Cincy needs talent that is ready to play every day and our prospects are not quite there yet. Conversely we do not want to give away three or four of our best prospects. Izzy (and I think odalis) might our most tradeable parts from the dodger perspective. Izzy is a known name he is wildly over valued.

No one is saying trade Izzy or any other dodger just to trade him. If you can get a top player like Dunn or a front line pitcher that is when you explore trading Izzy or others. Of course it will leave a hole but replacing Izzy's numbers and defense is not as tough when you have a dunn and a guzman and a La roche etc.

2005-07-02 12:39:17
474.   alex 7
I'm guessing something came up and he won't be around for the game, so we'll have a possible 800 post thread here.

How much do you think Frank cares about PR? It seems that people will continue to show up for Dodgers games regardless of the team, and the unpopular trades that Depo has made have made the team better. So why wouldn't Frank do it again? He's getting booed regardless.

2005-07-02 12:44:49
475.   LAT
Because from some of the things printed recently, he seems to be smarting from the fact that LA has not embraced him. I think he cares about PR alot otherwise he wouldn't have hired Strick & Co. I'm not saying moving Ceasar is not the right move. It is. I just think Frank will catch a lot of heat, something he's tired of.
2005-07-02 12:45:29
476.   Jon Weisman
472 - thanks for the concern, but I'm okay. Sorry I'm late, folks. Bad accident on the Santa Monica Freeway delayed my arrival home from morning jaunts. Today's game thread is open.
2005-07-02 12:46:49
477.   Borchard504
The Reds want and need desperately, starting pitching. All conspiracy angles must come from that direction. They do not need a first baseman, as matter of fact they are shopping Dunn and Casey, because they want to put Willy Mo Pena at first. No need for Choi. None.

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