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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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'Bang Against Me Any Time,' Said the Wall to the Head
2005-08-03 08:53
by Jon Weisman

Update: This will be the game chat thread.

Today's Game

* * *

Until Tuesday, Hee Seop Choi had not homered since June 14. This relative slump led to his benching - he hasn't started since July 24.

Statistics since June 15:

Choi: .333 on-base percentage, .353 slugging percentage
Jason Phillips: .247 on-base percentage, .333 slugging percentage.

The starting first baseman has been slumping worse than the slumping first baseman.

Now, from Steve Henson in the Times, we find the latest rationale from Dodger manager Jim Tracy for benching Choi: Phillips is better with runners in scoring position. Here are the stats:

Choi: .321 OBP, .323 slugging
Phillips: .363 OBP, .562 slugging

Well, whether or not you believe in clutch hitting, certainly up to now Phillips has delivered with runners on second and/or third.

But wait a minute. What if you expand beyond runners in scoring position, and just include any situation with runners on base?

Choi: .336 OBP, .394 slugging
Phillips: .310 OBP, .416 slugging

It's just about a wash with runners on. And in the more frequent situation of no runners on base - when you need a baserunner to kick things off?

Choi: .325 OBP, .507 slugging
Phillips: .270 OBP, .344 slugging

And of course, don't forget their stats against right-handed pitchers:

Choi: .365 OBP, .462 slugging
Phillips: .284 OBP, .362 slugging

Non-news flash. Tracy seeks out statistics to support his desire not to start Choi, conveniently ignoring the counter-arguments.

One possibility that hasn't been discussed is that Phillips will improve as a hitter without the burdens of catching.

Phillips as 1B (2002-04): .359 OBP, .409 slugging
Phillips as C (2002-04): .321 OBP, .381 slugging

But neither matches up to the career average of Choi - the same Choi who "who spent years emitting a few scents of his own at the plate," according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News.

Choi career: .349 OBP, .442 slugging

Phillips is a major league hitter, which means he's going to have some good games, and I couldn't be happier about that.

Choi is more of a hitter, and he will have his good games if people just let him. Like he already has. Tuesday's home run by Choi was only the fourth of his 14 that did not tie the game or give the Dodgers the lead - and yet it still provided the ultimate margin of victory.

Bottom line - there are alternatives to Choi at first base, but Phillips is still not one of them.

* * *

It has been reported that Jeff Kent became the first second baseman to reach the 20-homer mark in nine consecutive seasons in the majors. However, because one of Kent's home runs this season came as a first baseman, people need to hold off on awarding that record.

* * *

Dodger outfielder Jayson Werth has dropped the lawsuit he filed against Ryan Root that accused the former high school teammate of writing letters smearing Werth's reputation, according to the Chicago Sun-Times - but only because Root has succeeded in disappearing himself. (Thanks to 6-4-2 for the pointer.) Werth's attorneys say they might re-file if the letters resumed.

* * *

Marquis Grissom, who hit 42 home runs in his first two seasons after leaving the Dodgers but struggled to a .533 OPS this season, has been designated for assignment by the Giants.

From Ray Ratto of the San Francisco Chronicle:

"You look at what the team went through this year," he said. "I'm 38 and I've been hurt with injuries. I understand what this team has been through. There are no hard feelings. No excuses. I didn't get the job done whether I was hurt or not. People are paying you, and they want you to produce."

What? No bitching? No complaining? No "I have no idea how I tested positive for that .212 average?"

Nope. A simple, clear-headed assessment of the facts, without blame delegation or alibi weaving. Simple, pure Grissom.

Instead, he took his leave of the clubhouse while joking with teammates in his street clothes.

"Why be sad?" Grissom said. "I'm not sad about anything. I'll be fine."

Grissom has 2,251 career hits, 227 homers and 429 stolen bases.

Comments (714)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-03 09:47:51
1.   dzzrtRatt
It did occur to me that Phillips might be a better hitter without the burden of catching, but he'll never be a star. Choi might become one, but not for the Dodgers, not unless Tracy is fired at the end of the season. Wouldn't you say that odds in favor of that happening have grown exponentially the past two months, largely because of the mysterious and self-defeating way Tracy's handled Choi?
2005-08-03 10:03:45
2.   Vishal
even assuming that clutch hitting exists, if phillips only hits well in crucial situations with runners on base, or the game is on the line or something... gosh, that sounds like an ideal PINCH HITTER, doesn't it? shouldn't he be the one coming off the bench in a tough spot?
2005-08-03 10:03:46
3.   Howard Fox
I think this might point up the issue that sometimes a little too much is made of all these stats.

The bottom line is Tracy does not like playing Choi. Don't ask me for a reason. He just doesn't.

Take it from me, you can make numbers do whatever you want them to do to support your cause.

2005-08-03 10:05:06
4.   fanerman
But some numbers are more significant than others.
2005-08-03 10:05:30
5.   Howard Fox
2 - and just exactly when is that clutch moment? the strikeout that kills a potential game turning atbat in the 3rd inning? or with a runner on second in the 8th?
2005-08-03 10:06:24
6.   Howard Fox
4 - that, of course, depends on your point of view when making your argument
2005-08-03 10:06:41
7.   Jon Weisman
3 - Hence, the headline to this post.
2005-08-03 10:09:06
8.   Steve
But what you can't do is make the numbers look like Jason Phillips should start at first base.
2005-08-03 10:09:36
9.   fanerman
6 - I mean statistically significant, but whatever. It doesn't matter anyway.
2005-08-03 10:10:51
10.   Howard Fox
8 - hate to say it, but what are the choices? Kent at 1B and APerez at 2B? Tracy appears to have decided that no matter how good a hitter Antonio is, he won't put him in the field.
2005-08-03 10:11:42
11.   Vishal
i dunno, whenever it is. but the point is tracy's rationale is anything but, because it's backwards. if phillips sucks most of the time but is good in the clutch, and vice versa for choi, then why not play choi most of the time and phillips only in crucial situations?

i don't really buy into clutch hitting though anyway, i was just saying the reasoning is retarded. frankly, as i was saying on rob's blog, i think whatever performance variations there are in such a small number of at-bats w/RISP are pretty meaningless.

2005-08-03 10:13:13
12.   Denezin
Great things about yesterday's game:

(1) Seeing Hee Sop Choi's homer in the eighth, and starting the subsequent Heep-Sop-Choi chant.

(2) Wearing my 'Ghame Over' shirt to the amusement of many Dodger fans sitting around my section. Actually being 'Ghame Over' helped as well.

(3) Watching Broxton throw some gas. How old is he? 21?

(4) Seeing the Dodgers hit four HRs, equaling the total homers I've seen hit in my previous dozen games at RFK.


(1) Being dumbfounded as I see Phillips starting at first. WTH? I think my fellow Dodger fan but not so sabr-inclined friend enjoyed pointing it out, notwithstanding my subsequent rant.

(2) Unbelievable humidity and 85+ degree temperatures. I don't recall ever sitting at Dodger Stadium for a night game and sweating so profusely. Despite similar ages, RFK can't hold a candle to DS.

(3) Kent missing tagging Vidro at 2nd base in the ninth, nearly inducing cardiac arrest.

(4) Seeing local boy and Univ of MD grad Schmoll struggle and get pulled.

I splurged yesterday for great seats in the orange down low on the left field line last night, but tonight I'll be back up in purple upper desk seats (sec 452) wearing 'Ghame Over' and a Gagne-esque beat up LA cap.

Other DT readers attending tonight's game?

2005-08-03 10:13:38
13.   Steve
10 -- The choices are:

1) Choi
2) Saenz
3) Kent
4) Perez
5) Repko
6) Beetle Bailey
7) Larry "Bud" Melman
8) Regis Philbin
9) George H. W. Bush
10) Jason Phillips

2005-08-03 10:13:43
14.   Jonny6
I hope this isn't a Choi only thread, because I'm looking for some thoughts on our future outfield situation.

I waver on a daily basis from "acceptance" that this season is over, to "denial" that we still have a chance to win the NL West. I realize that we're only 4 games out, but even with the sorry state of the division I can't imagine that the winner finishes the season under 500. And when I look at the current state of the team, I just can't envision a realistic scenario where we start winning games at a clip that puts us above the 500 mark. So I am spending more time in the "acceptance" camp these days.

With that in mind, I am curious about our outfield situation for 2006. Is Ledee under contract for next year? I seem to remember him signing a one-year deal only. How about Werth? I don't have any grand illusion that Repko is going to blossom into a dominant major league outfielder, but he does seem much more versatile than Werth. His defense is excellent, he can run, bunt, and should be able to become a capable hitter. I know a lot of people on this site mock the "scrappy" aspect but let's face it, you can't have a team full of prima donna stars. You've got to fill in the spots with some low priced, hard working youngsters. In a nutshell, Repko seems like a perfect 4th outfielder - that defensive subsitution, every fourth day type of player. In my estimation, Werth has been the most disappointing Dodger of this 2005 campaign.

So my questions for you more in tune with this stuff: Can we get anything for Werth? Who is available in the free agent market this offseason that we can plug into left field along with Bradley and Drew. It seems like we've got a surplus of capable (not phenomenal but capable) infielders already in the Dodger system, and it seems like that left fielder slot is going to the big hole to fill during the off-season. I won't be too confident in our chances in 2006 if Werth is our solution.

2005-08-03 10:17:11
15.   bokonon42
I've been re-living Olmedo's big Sunday choke since it happened, and using the Jim Tracy method of statistical analysis, I've determined the proper course of action. Since Olmedo's 28ABs with two outs and runners on second and third have produced: .357/.419/.893 (1.312 OPS!) obviously a triple steal was the way to go. Even if the lead runner can't take home, Olmedo is finally in a position to succeed. It wasn't that Olmedo choked, it was that the situation was insufficiently clutch-worthy.
2005-08-03 10:17:42
16.   Denezin
Is there still talk of moving Guzman to RF at some point? I recall him being compared to Juan Gonzalez at times. Though I suppose it makes more sense to leave him at SS if he can field the position and put up big offensive numbers.
2005-08-03 10:18:39
17.   fanerman
16 - JtD is staying at SS.... FOREVER!!!
2005-08-03 10:22:04
18.   fanerman
I mean until he shows that he can't field SS. Then (we're guessing) that's when they'll move him to an easier position. But his bat is THAT much more valuable at SS than say, RF.
2005-08-03 10:23:02
19.   Marty
Too bad about the Grissom DFA. I always liked him, even on the Giants. I'll bet someone picks him up.
2005-08-03 10:23:14
20.   oldbear
The Dodgers cant win games with Robles, Izturis, Phillips in the infield, and AP/Choi on the bench.

Tracy is really messing up this team. Certainly we can still play up to .500 baseball and win the NL West, but its not going to happen as long as AP/Choi remain on bench, and the 3 others start everygame.

It aint gonna happen. The only hope now is that JP, Robles, or Izturis get hurt.

2005-08-03 10:24:06
21.   Denezin

Hmm... looking at, there is an OF in AAA hitting .390 with .495 OBP and .622 SLG. His name is Jason Grabowski. Has DePo thought about giving him a shot? Those are great numbers!

2005-08-03 10:24:41
22.   Xeifrank
The thing I don't like about Phillips starting at catcher is that Tracy can't take him out of the game, otherwise there would be no backup catcher. Let's see we have three first basemen a weak hitting shortstop playing 3B, a 3B with some pop but a low batting average playing LF and a manager who will come up with any excuse in the book not to start Choi. If there is a RHP pitcher facing the Dodgers, Choi should start, then perhaps later in the game when a LHP comes in put Phillips or Old Main at first. What a shame!
vr, Xei
2005-08-03 10:25:58
23.   coachbean
[14] As far as getting anything for Werth... I don't think so... there just isn't much of a market for a tall, lanky, mediorcre defensive fielding OF who breaks down all the time. Also I think this is his 3rd major league season which makes him elligible for arbitration (i.e. pay increase)... It may be next year since I don't know the service time rules... He was great as a bargain OF last season, but to me appears done.
2005-08-03 10:26:55
24.   Denezin
Ok, Ok, I hope no heads exploded there. Been away from DT for a bit. Seeing Dodgers take the Nats last night has rekindled my interest once again.

I love the JtD name btw. Took me a bit to research and figure that one out.

2005-08-03 10:27:12
25.   bigcpa
Phillips leads the team in AB's with RISP. So that makes me think Tracy is impressed by the RBI column more than anything.
2005-08-03 10:28:41
26.   Steve
JtD(TM). Please make royalties payable to the Fire Jim Tracy Fund c/o Tim Brown, Los Angeles Times.
2005-08-03 10:30:07
27.   Xeifrank
14. Brian Giles is probably the best OF free agent next year. Correct me if I'm wrong.
vr, Xei
2005-08-03 10:30:40
28.   Steve
And I am coming to terms with the fact that he will be playing somewhere other than shortstop, and that we will be stuck with Cristian Izturis for the next twenty-seven years. So speculate freely. We only deserve what we get.
2005-08-03 10:39:34
29.   Eric L

I really doubt that Cesar (or Cristian) will be playing shortstop for the Dodgers much beyond the end of his contract.

2005-08-03 10:40:58
30.   Vishal
not to beat a dead horse, but could we get adam dunn in the offseason?
2005-08-03 10:41:18
31.   Sam DC
Posted this earlier in last night's game thread, but it's probably lost there.

. . . there's no Nationals blog anything like Dodger Thoughts. There are some OK blogs with decent writers and good information, but no Jon Weismans and no real community. There are some pretty noxious "chat" zones (one of which attacked Rob earlier in the year . . .). But there's one guy out there who is a very smart and excellent writer, who does seem pretty brilliant "game stories". His story about last night's game gives you an idea of the flavor, though it's not his best stuff. I pass it on in futherance of my DC-tourguide duties.

(I remembered this because it echoes 25 above in describing the Nationals' acquisitions of Wilson and Castilla.)


Den -- I'll be there tonight, though tonight is my splurge night (sec. 113). Apparently, these seats are within chatting distance of the Dodgers' on deck circle. If you could say anything to a Dodger who will actually play tonight (thus, sorry Suffering Bruin, but I can't get you Choi's number), what would it be?

2005-08-03 10:42:16
32.   oldbear
Is Choi the only pinch hitter in the majors now with at least 14 HR's?

Likewise, is AP the only player batting .335 that is also a bench player?

Last nite our bench was loaded. Choi, Saenz, AP, Ledee...

2005-08-03 10:43:40
33.   regfairfield
The Dodgers have the best bench in baseball. I don't think anyone can dispute that.
2005-08-03 10:46:58
34.   Steve
Remember back when Preston Wilson hit that homerun in his first game for the Nats?

Good times. Good times.

Favorite stat that doesn't mean anything but I'll use it like a cudgel anyway: The Nats are 4-13 since trading for my favorite outfielder.

2005-08-03 10:47:35
35.   fanerman
[31] - Who do you (or the team) think is the better first baseman? Choi or Phillips?

Why doesn't Choi start?


2005-08-03 10:48:20
36.   Eric L

Just make sure that Milton doesn't ackowledge you. I was sitting behind the visitor's dugout in Arizona with my bro and a friend the day that he got hurt. He saw us in our Dodger gear when he was on deck and actually acknowledged us

During his at bat, he got hurt. We blame ourselves.

2005-08-03 10:49:54
37.   King of the Hobos

Ledee has a 2 year contract I believe. The Outfield figurs to have Bradley, Drew, and Ledee. Repko as a 5th OF isn't so bad because of his defense. Werth figures to be trade bait, but if we can't sign someone like Giles, he might stay. My guess is that LF will be the hole that DePo tries to fill this winter, as our best OF prospect (Kemp) is still a few years away. We could take an interesting path and put Delwyn out there (his defense at 2nd isn't very good, we have other 2B prospects to replace Kent, and he has played the OF in the minors)

2005-08-03 10:52:40
38.   kent
14 & 16-- I think our 2006 OF should be drew, bradley & repko w/ledee at #4. Repko is hitting better than 300 since July 1st and impresses me as an everyday,
"five-tool" player. Keep in mind that he is a rookie & will only improve.

I see, albeit less clearly, guzman ending up at first?

2005-08-03 10:53:07
39.   Denezin
Hmm... how 'bout asking something like "Hey, is that shiny thing in Jim Tracy's back really a fork?"

Either that or "Welcome to the swamp. This weather's a refreshing change from the ocean breezes in Dodger Stadium, huh?"

2005-08-03 10:59:30
40.   fanerman
I doubt we'll settle for Repko as a starter unless we absolutely have to. He makes a better back-up.

I'd guess that Guzman would end up in the outfield if not at SS, since 3rd will most likely be taken by LaRoche and 1st by Loney and/or Choi.

2005-08-03 10:59:34
41.   stubbs
Why not take a flier on Grissom? He might be a productive PH. Plus there is the Giant revenge factor.

Still dont get why people here arent more up in arms about Perez not playing. Just do not get the Choi fixation. Perez would be incredible leading off.

2005-08-03 10:59:57
42.   Sam DC
36 yikes -- thanks for the tip.
2005-08-03 11:00:34
43.   GoBears
And haven't the Nats lost something like 11 1-run games in a row? After starting the season by winning almost all close games? Last night, they turned a 3-run loss into a 1-run loss, just to continue the string and point up the meaninglessness of the stat.

The only news less surprising than that Bonds will sit out the season:

1. Nats freefall from first place.
2. Brian Roberts turns back into, well, Brian Roberts.

2005-08-03 11:01:31
44.   Steve
"Still dont get why people here arent more up in arms about Perez not playing. Just do not get the Choi fixation. Perez would be incredible leading off."

You don't get it because there isn't one.

2005-08-03 11:04:39
45.   Steve
3. The A's are contending for the playoffs.
4. Jim Tracy is an idiot.
2005-08-03 11:04:56
46.   oldbear
41. AP would be incredible leading off. I agree. Choi would be even more incredible batting 2nd.
2005-08-03 11:04:57
47.   oldbear
41. AP would be incredible leading off. I agree. Choi would be even more incredible batting 2nd.
2005-08-03 11:06:14
48.   Jon Weisman
41 - Yes, I want to see Perez play. Tell you what - I'll do a post about that soon.
2005-08-03 11:07:10
49.   kent
40- Repko, as a rookie, is a better defensive OF than Bradley or Drew and is well on his way to becoming a 300 hitter. He has some HR power and those numbers should improve. What is it about him that you would see as "settling"?
2005-08-03 11:07:52
50.   Steelyeri

Yes, Jim Tracy really is an idiot.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-03 11:08:35
51.   Marty
I'm sorry about Grissom's situation, but I don't want him.
2005-08-03 11:08:39
52.   fanerman
We've also pined for Perez to play 3B more, but, I guess some reasons for the Choi fixation are:

-Jason Phillips! Choi's replacements are less adequate (Robles at least has a glove).
-While jim tracy has an actual reason for benching Perez (defense - may not be the best reason but at least it's a reason), he's given no indication as to why Choi does not play at all.
-Jason Phillips!
-Choi hits for more power.
-Jason Phillips!
-Perez is due to regress a little most likely. Choi has produced at this level before.

Not that we don't want Perez to play. Many, many, many of us would rather Perez start at 3B over Robles, but I guess we see the Choi situation as the bigger injustice. Of course the best line-up we can field has both of them in their respective corners of the diamond. Did I mention Jason Phillips?

2005-08-03 11:09:01
53.   Jon Weisman
31 - Love the Right Stuff references at ball-wonk.

"They were called test pilots, but no one knew their names ..."

2005-08-03 11:10:14
54.   stubbs
48-thank you.

lets say tracy is going to be back next year. now that season is pretty much done (being realistic), why wouldnt Tracy throw Perez and Choi out there every day just so he can prove his feelings about them are accurate (if they are) and start without the constant questions next year?

2005-08-03 11:11:52
55.   fanerman
See [45] - 4.
2005-08-03 11:11:55
56.   Steve
"well on his way to becoming a 300 hitter"

What would lead you to that conclusion? Repko has sort of turned my head by doing non-scrappy things like actually hitting the ball and getting on base, but why would he be "well on his way to becoming a 300 hitter." He's a strikeout machine. That was his first homerun since April. What I don't understand is why these would be indications of someone who is "well on his way to being a 300 hitter," but they are indications of failure in hitters like Hee Seop Choi or Jayson Werth.

2005-08-03 11:11:56
57.   Jim Hitchcock
Echoing what Marty said in 19, I always liked Marquis...he always played hard, never made excuses. Just a fundamentally solid player. Sorry to see him go.

But, he's got a huge ranch in Georgia, so it worked out okay for him.

2005-08-03 11:14:02
58.   Xeifrank
54. That won't happen because it actually makes sense. It's the "Buntermaker Principle". If something makes sense, make up some crap excuse and do the opposite.

vr, Xei

2005-08-03 11:14:16
59.   Steelyeri
49 How do you know Repko is on his way to becoming a .300 hitter? That seems very optimistic to me. He is on a hot streak right now but he will probably settle down soon enough. Repko is very scrappy and that can be deceiving. He is fun to watch, but he hasn't proven anything. 2004 Werth looked more promising than 2005 Repko and look what happened. We can't depend on him being a starter next season only for him to dissapoint (Which i'm not saying he will). I think depo should acquire a proven starter for LF (or maybe start ledee), keep repko as a backup and see if he continues to improve.
2005-08-03 11:14:18
60.   regfairfield
49- If Repko is on his way to hitting .300, then so is Choi.
2005-08-03 11:15:19
61.   Nick Iyengar
Has any reporter ever simply asked JT why Phillips is starting over Choi, given the numbers each has put up? It seems like a totally obvious question to ask.

I've never seen a comment from Tracy explaining this situation, and I just don't know how Tracy would be able to justify his decision-making in a way that would satisfy knowledgable fans.

2005-08-03 11:15:36
62.   Xeifrank
Does LeDee have some physical ailment that keeps him from starting more games than he does? Thanks. vr, Xei
2005-08-03 11:16:19
63.   Steve
Nick, see the Times today, where Jim Tracy pees on Steve Henson's leg and tells him it's raining.
2005-08-03 11:16:22
64.   regfairfield
61 - Today in the LA Times it was basically "Phillips hits better with RISP".
2005-08-03 11:17:15
65.   Xeifrank
61. From the LA Times article referenced to in Jon's post.

"His decision to start Phillips at first base and continue to use Choi as a pinch-hitter proved astute. Dodger front-office executives have scratched their heads recently, wondering why Choi rarely plays despite carrying an on-base-plus-slugging percentage of .800.

Although the overall batting numbers of Phillips and Choi are about equal, Tracy said the determining factor is that Phillips is batting .315 with runners in scoring position, and Choi is at .177."

2005-08-03 11:20:49
66.   kent
56- Since July 1st, Repko is hitting 317 and that number has been steadily climbing. Unlike a veteran (ie Finley) who goes through streaks, Repko's improvement reflects the growth of a talented rookie who is starting to "get it". His adjustments are working. That's what I mean by well on his way.
2005-08-03 11:20:55
67.   Steve
Perez should be playing? That's brilliant. Why didn't we think of it?
2005-08-03 11:21:41
68.   bigcpa
Tracy also told reporters he prefers to split kings at the blackjack table.
2005-08-03 11:21:43
69.   Jon Weisman
61 - Every now and then, I start to wonder whether people skip my posts and go straight to the comments. Not just you, by any stretch. It would seem that it's the case, however.
2005-08-03 11:22:39
70.   bigcpa
Sickels wrote up Justin Orenduff today over at

... his Double-A transition has been successful thus far, and I am optimistic about his chances to be a useful pitcher.

2005-08-03 11:23:21
71.   Nick Iyengar

Thanks, I hadn't seen the actual quote.

2005-08-03 11:24:11
72.   Steve
Werth hit .310 and OPSed .954 last July. Again, I'm a little more hopeful than I was about Repko's ability to be a fourth/fifth outfielder type, but one month of +.300 doesn't convince me.
2005-08-03 11:24:29
73.   Xeifrank
69. I read your posts but sometimes don't click on all the links. I pick and choose the links I click on. Great posts of late, seems like you are really getting back into the swing of things. vr, Xei
2005-08-03 11:25:46
74.   kent
60- Choi has been in the majors for 5 years with a BA of 238. How can you compare that to the potential of a rookie on the rise? Remember that you heard it hear first, Repko is the real deal.
2005-08-03 11:26:10
75.   Jonny6
49, 56, 59, etc.
As much as I've enjoyed watching Repko play this year, it doesn't make sense to assume he can be a legitimate hitter in the big leagues. Obviously, he's young so he could become a better hitter, and if so would make an excellent all around outfielder. But with such a limited history, and only mixed success during that time, it would be a lot better to bring him along slowly and occasionally as opposed to throwing him out there on opening day and tell him "you're our everyday leftfielder now go out there and hit .300."

If Tracy is back next year, than DePodesta is officially spineless. You can't make a radical overhaul of the roster subscribing to one philosophy, and then allow the team to be managed by someone with a completely different philosophy. I am not a fan of DePo and I am definitely not convinced that he will be successful in the long run, but I am even less enamored with Tracy. If his sour mug is still infiltrating my television set in 2006, than DePo will have some serious explaining to do.

2005-08-03 11:26:29
76.   Nick Iyengar
69: Jon, I always read the posts! I'd been reading DT for months before I got around to starting to read, let alone make, comments. I simply didn't read the article you referenced before wanting to make my previous comment. Don't worry...I just ask stupid questions sometimes.
2005-08-03 11:27:18
77.   regfairfield
66 - Repko has progressed to the point where I'm willing to not be infuriated when he touches the bat. Saying he'll hit .300 based on 79 at bats is taking it a wee bit too far.
2005-08-03 11:27:35
78.   stubbs
I was just commenting on all the Choi talk, wheras Perez flys a bit more under the radar despite having more success than Choi.

What if Choi had actually been above average the last 6 weeks, the site might have changed its URL to

2005-08-03 11:27:38
79.   bigcpa
Busted Nick! Did any of you ever take the exam in school where the instructions say to read the whole test thoroughly before beginning the test? On the last page it says simply sign your name and turn the test in blank to receive an A. I spent 45 minutes working on the damn thing.
2005-08-03 11:27:53
80.   Steve
2005-08-03 11:28:55
81.   Telemachos
54- Great question. I wonder that myself, every day.
2005-08-03 11:30:23
82.   Tim B
69 Some people go to Dodger Stadium for the atmosphere, some go for the game, and some go for both.
2005-08-03 11:31:27
83.   kent
77- You're right, make that "well on his way to being a 280 hitter" (although I suspect the potential is there for more).
2005-08-03 11:32:37
84.   regfairfield
74 - Choi has been in the majors a little more than three years.

He has been better since July 1st than Repko (.277/.382/.426 for Choi vs. .304/.345/.430, this doesn't count last nights game) If Repko is progressing to be a good hitter, then you have to apply the same argument to Choi.

2005-08-03 11:32:55
85.   Jon Weisman
79 - We had that test in third grade on a smaller scale. I remember staring at the relative juvenile delinquent of our class, wondering why he was sitting there doing nothing with a smile on his face while everyone else in the class worked.
2005-08-03 11:33:57
86.   Steve
I'm just afraid of what "real deal" means. Does it mean 20+ HR power, gap potential, and +.800 OPSes? Or does it mean wasted bunts, stealing 15 meaningless bases, and Izturisian empty batting averages?
2005-08-03 11:34:51
87.   fanerman
86 - Probably the latter.
2005-08-03 11:38:08
88.   Sam DC
82 elegantly put, and you've even got the new comment-thingie-do figured out, which even our host has not yet mastered!
2005-08-03 11:39:11
89.   Odysseus
66 Repko's minor league numbers don't really lead me to the belief that he will be a good hitter, certainly not a .300 hitter

2005-08-03 11:41:18
90.   Sam DC
By the way, am I right that Jon now has both Odysseus and Telemachos commenting on Dodger Thoughts? That's impressive.
2005-08-03 11:42:49
91.   Jon Weisman
90 Don't forget Icaros.
2005-08-03 11:44:01
92.   fanerman
"Perez flys a bit more under the radar despite having more success than Choi."

It's true that Perez has produced more, but Choi has been decidedly unlucky with his at-bats, while Perez has been pretty lucky with his.


2005-08-03 11:46:11
93.   db1022
The comment-link-thingy doesn't work when referencing hidden comments, right?

I'm not crazy?

2005-08-03 11:46:20
94.   fanerman
I don't mean to say that Choi should play and Perez shouldn't. Clearly, both should be playing a LOT more than they are. Just saying that while Choi hasn't been as successful, a lot of it is bad luck and he has been having good at-bats. The potential is there and easy to see.
2005-08-03 11:46:33
95.   bigcpa
Here are the Chokiest Chokers this year:

1 Taveras Willy -.109
2 Alou Moises -.088
3 Jones Andruw -.063
4 Jeter Derek -.063
5 Blake Casey -.063
6 Mench Kevin -.061
7 Rodriguez Ivan -.061
8 Lane Jason -.061
9 Pierre Juan -.056
10 Hall Bill -.055

and the Clutchiest:

1 Kent Jeff .101
2 Vizquel Omar .092
3 Sheffield Gary .091
4 Encarnacion Juan.084
5 Ramirez Manny .083
6 Mueller Bill .079
7 Kotsay Mark .079
8 Phillips Jason .075
9 Ortiz David .065
10 Edmonds Jim .063

Choi (at -.077) would rank as the 3rd biggest Choker had he qualified. So he and Phillips are quite the case study.

2005-08-03 11:46:56
96.   fanerman
Yeah. Or at least I'm crazy, too.
2005-08-03 11:47:54
97.   Steve
The stats in 80 by the way, are Jason Grabowski's May 2004.
2005-08-03 11:48:20
98.   db1022
92 - And at least there's a case to be made against Perez - he's a bad defender (apparently). Tracy has made his choice, offense vs. defense. He's the manager - its his call.

There is no justification for Phillips over Choi, esp. against RHP. The RISP is the only thing, and that's a stupid stat.

2005-08-03 11:48:30
99.   Nick Iyengar
95- What does Jeff Kent's .101 mean? Is that another one of the more obscure stats?
2005-08-03 11:49:21
100.   Steve
Any list that Juan Encarnacion is on is de facto useless.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-08-03 11:50:05
101.   Sam DC
Well, the Dodgers made somewhat of an impression last night. From a Wash Post online chat today:

To College Park, Md. [who had earlier commented that it is impossible to tell if a long fly is an out or a home run from the seats in dead center]: One easy way to tell whether something is a home run from anywhere in the park: If the batter is a Dodger, it's a home run.

. . .

2005-08-03 11:50:25
102.   Steve
Phillips for Ortiz, straight up? Anyone?
2005-08-03 11:50:49
103.   fanerman
Wow. The one John Kruk calls "The Michael Jordan of Baseball" is the 4th biggest choker of the year.
2005-08-03 11:53:31
104.   Penarol1916
91. But Icaros isn't related to Odysseus and Telemachos, it would better if there was alsoa Daedalus posting as well.
2005-08-03 11:55:49
105.   King of the Hobos
The 3B FA market just got worse (which is hard, as the 3B market this year is absolutely terrible). Indians picked up the option on Aaron Boone.
2005-08-03 11:57:58
106.   Jon Weisman
104 What about Hobos (105) - does he qualify?
2005-08-03 12:02:44
107.   bigcpa
Re: 95
Sorry- that's the difference in BA between RISP and overall.
2005-08-03 12:03:01
108.   Bob Timmermann
The Nats radio announcers said that Phillips was playing first because of the Dodgers numerous injuries.

They don't study up much apparently.

2005-08-03 12:03:33
109.   Penarol1916
106. Now that's clever. I knew I liked this blog for a reason.
2005-08-03 12:04:46
110.   GoBears
86 and even in your optimistic scenario, that ain't as good as choi is NOW, despite getting jerked around.

stubbs, I think fanerman pretty much covered it in 52, but I would emphasize two things to answer your question.

First, we understand why Tracy isn't playing Perez, even if we disagree with it. It's because of his supposedly poor defense. Dumb reason, but we get it. For Choi, there is no reason, good or otherwise, beyond either (a) Tracy is a jerk and hates Choi, or (b) Tracy is dumb and doesn't understand that he's benching the better player.

Second, I like Perez and want to see him play instead of Cesar or Robles, at least half the time, but he's really just a better version of those guys offensively. Which is to say, all batting average, little power, few walks. He's better than they are, but not by as much as Choi could be.

So those two reasons explain why the anti-Tracy crowd here isn't talking as much about Perez. most of us want to see AP in the lineup much more often; indeed, as often as we want to see Choi. But we whine about AP less because at least there's no mystery as to why JT isn't playing him.

2005-08-03 12:07:08
111.   regfairfield
110 - Perez does have as many home runs as Izturis and Robles combined (not that hard). His minor league numbers do show he should have 10-15 home run power. (Which is about what he would be on pace for if he played the whole year.)
2005-08-03 12:12:13
112.   bigcpa
What's really amazing is the Choi was the 5th unluckiest batter in the 1st half according to the Hardball Times. That says nothing about the RISP splits. His 77 pt slide with RISP makes him unlucky in a totally different way. Not too mention being the walking embodiment of the LoDuca trade. If there was ever a guy that needed 500 ab's to reveal his true value, here's your guy.
2005-08-03 12:15:27
113.   molokai
Great article on BP about how great the trio of Clemens/Oswalt/Pettite have been this year.
For those who can't read the article since the freebie ended yesterday, basically the above trio is having the greatest season in baseball history not just modern baseball. Of course this is based on Runs Prevented. Shocked to not see a trio like Koufax/Drysdale/Osteen not crack the top ten but I guess that is what happens when you dominate in a pitching era in a pitching park.
2005-08-03 12:22:24
114.   ryu
From today's N.Y. Times,

"The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved the potent anabolic steroid stanozolol.... Palmeiro said Monday that he had never intentionally taken steroids, but stanozolol does not come in dietary supplements and is among the most popular steroids on the market."

2005-08-03 12:27:36
115.   Nick Iyengar

Yesterday, in another thread, I had said that Palmeiro could have run afoul of the test by taking the wrong medicine (or supplement, etc.) ... can't say I feel the same way today.

The way I see it, this is pretty damning evidence. If it's 100% true that he took the stanozolol stuff, it's got to hurt his Hall chances. I guess part of my reluctance to buy this story was just that I'm just way more surprised than I would have been if Bonds or McGwire had been the subject of the story instead of Palmeiro.

2005-08-03 12:28:00
116.   coachbean
This is my dream lineup of those Dodgers that are actaully active... if Tracy put this lineup out there for 10 consecutive games I gaurantee 7 of them are victories and the team finally starts to develop momentum.
1) Robles SS
2) Choi 1st
3) Valentin LF
4) Kent 2nd
5) Bradley CF
6) Perez 3rd
7) Navarro C
8) Repko RF
9) Pithcer/ PH Saenz(R) Ledee (L)

There may be a few too many righties at the bottom of the lineup but the top would be awesome. And before anyone can criticize Valentine hitting 3rd, I stacked 1,2,3 with players that are patient and take a lot of pitches... They may not have averages but Valentine and Choi walk a lot and I figure that by the time a pitcher got to Kent & Bradley the # of pitches thrown would result in them seeing more "mistake pitches".

2005-08-03 12:28:18
117.   Eric Enders
My question is: Why is it only this year that Tracy has developed his infamous doghouse, with a sign above it saying "abandon hope all ye who enter here."

If memory serves, in past seasons his decisions regarding playing time have always been based on a player's quality of play on the field. This is no longer true, and I'm wondering why.

So, which of the following is true?

1. This year, for whatever reason, Tracy has developed a newfound ability to hold grudges against certain players, and bench them even when their performance dictates otherwise.

2. He is ignorant enough to genuinely believe that Phillips is better than Choi and Edwards/Robles is better than A Perez.


3. This is all in my imagination and Tracy has always held inexplicable grudges against certain players.

2005-08-03 12:31:01
118.   dzzrtRatt
Palmeiro re: steroids = Clinton re: 'that woman' They both read from the book that says, if you're going to lie, lie brazenly and unequivocally, and be sure to point your finger while you're lying.
2005-08-03 12:33:44
119.   regfairfield
117 I think this is the first year he actually has had options. Before, he would have to do something like start Hiram Bocachica to screw up the lineup.
2005-08-03 12:38:00
120.   Colorado Blue
[116] - I like your lineup. I think Izzy would make a wonderful utility infielder.
2005-08-03 12:38:45
121.   fanerman
Re: Palmeiro,
I thought they didn't disclose the kind of drug they test positive for. How'd it get out?
2005-08-03 12:40:31
122.   Eric Enders
Somebody may have already mentioned this, but BA is doing their "best tools" lists for various minor leagues. Here are the Dodger prospects who have been mentioned:

Best Hitting Prospect - Andy LaRoche, Vero Beach
Best Power Prospect - Andy LaRoche, Vero Beach
Best Reliever - Mark Alexander, Vero Beach


Best Strike Zone Judgment - Russell Martin, Jacksonville
Best Baserunner - Todd Donovan, Jacksonville
Best Pitching Prospect - Chad Billingsley, Jacksonville
Best Breaking Pitch - Chad Billinsgley, Jacksonville
Best Defensive Catcher - Russell Martin, Jacksonville

The Triple-A lists don't get released until tomorrow, but nobody on LV really has a chance of making it. Maybe Navarro as best defensive C and that's about it.

2005-08-03 12:41:33
123.   JJoeScott
116 - I can see sacrificing defense to play Pedro Guerrero at 3b. But not A. Perez.
2005-08-03 12:43:00
124.   regfairfield
123 Where do you propose we put the third best hitter on the Dodgers then?
2005-08-03 12:44:49
125.   fanerman
A. Perez isn't THAT bad at 3B (or at least hasn't been thus far). I don't mind him starting under most conditions. Maybe take him out for defensive reasons or when Lowe pitches, but otherwise I think his bat outdoes his lack of glove.
2005-08-03 12:44:57
126.   GoBears
116 No lineup can be guaranteed to win 7 out of 10. But I like your thinking.

117 Well, Tracy did the same thing to Choi last year. Played him for a little while after the trade, then relegated him to the end of the bench. So he plain old doesn't like Choi. Probably because he isn't enlightened as to player evaluation (few managers are).

I thought he got the maximum out of the Cora/Hernandez platoon, but maybe he made the right decisions there for the wrong reasons too (i.e., perception of defensive ability). Who knows?

2005-08-03 12:45:30
127.   Nick Iyengar
119: Don't forget Chad Hermansen (when was the last time he was mentioned at DT?)
2005-08-03 12:45:51
128.   fanerman
Re: [125]
By defensive reasons I mean maybe when it's close and late or something.
2005-08-03 12:47:06
129.   coachbean
Among qualified 1st basemen Choi's OPS of .808 would put him at 14th of 23(if qualified) ahead of: Dimitri Young, Justin Morneau and Kevin Millar

Choi's SLG of .476 has him at 13th of 23 (if qualified) ahead of: Palmero, Helton

Choi's 14HR has him at 15th, in the top 21 only 1 has fewer than Choi's 246 AB (Doug Mientkiewicz 239AB)

Bottom line is that Choi is at worst a league average 1st baseman, and as best something better... Tracy is at best an idiot at worst an idiot who is managing the Dodgers.

Phillips, by the way, would be last in OPS and 2nd to last in slugging...

2005-08-03 12:47:35
130.   bokonon42
117 I think it's because this is his first losing year. He doesn't know why they're losing, so he's grasping at straws. It's the problem with gut-instincts, or hunches, or any other nice descriptions of superstition. If you don't understand why something works, when it doesn't work any more, you won't know what to do about it.
2005-08-03 12:47:42
131.   bigcpa
I had to wait for the 8pm replay last night but what an amazing save Navarro made in the 8th! That was reminiscent of Jack Lazorko, the former hockey goalie turned pitcher. I was at the game when he made 3 or 4 jaw-dropping kick saves on balls up the middle.
2005-08-03 12:47:49
132.   King of the Hobos
Who beat Denker for strike zone judgement? He may have some strikeouts, but so does Martin
2005-08-03 12:48:15
133.   Eric Enders
One thing I wonder is, when did A Perez become such an awful defender? That seems like something that was invented in March 2005 so that Tracy could have an excuse not to play him. Is he really that bad at third base? Or do Perez's defensive "shortcomings" fall in the same category as placing Choi in "a position to succeed" -- i.e., nothing more than a BS excuse?

Now even his defense at second base is being maligned by Tracy and some media members. Until this year, as far as I can tell, he'd always been considered a pretty good defensive 2B.

2005-08-03 12:49:01
134.   Steve
McKay Christensen hit .327 here in 2001.

Of course you play Perez when you're throwing Izturis and Phillips out there. You don't have any other choice. Except of course, to whine in the paper that your offense doesn't score any runs.

2005-08-03 12:51:53
135.   regfairfield
133 - I have no problem with it on the whole, but at times he seems to just let balls get by him for no reason.
2005-08-03 12:53:20
136.   fanerman
McKay Christensen hit .327 here in 2001.

Those were the days. I remember thinking "no way he can keep this up", but I wondered why Tracy didn't ride him until he fell back to earth.

2005-08-03 12:54:31
137.   Eric Enders
132- Ben Zobrist of Lexington was named the best strike zone judgment in the Sally League.

(I'd post his batting stats, but they don't exist in Baseball America's DB thanks to the morons at MLB "Advanced" Media, which took over the minor league stat contract this year. And you thought Elias was bad...)

2005-08-03 12:56:23
138.   bokonon42
117 Also, if Hee is in the Dante's doghouse you describe, doesn't that mean Easter is just around the corner?
2005-08-03 12:57:42
139.   Eric L
Correct me if I'm wrong..

re 117

I'm seem to recall that Karros and Grudz were traded because Tracy didn't want them (bad clubhouse guys, whatever). Granted, Karros wasn't worth much anymore, but he was better than McGriff in 2003. Grudz was certainly better than Cora that year as well.

The Dodgers also got the pleasure of paying Todd Hundley for spending most of the time of the DL that year.

If it is true that Tracy didn't like Grudz or Karros, he certainly wasn't finding excuses not to play them anymore.

2005-08-03 12:59:22
140.   rageon
Where did all this Repko love come from? Career minor leaguer Jason Repko?

The guy wasn't a .300 hitter in the minors, I highly doubt he's going to do it in Dodger Stadium.

However, if we're going to play him, shouldn't he be in CF? Or does he only play the corners? I would think that letting Bradley run a little less would be a good thing, given his leg problems in the past.

My opinion is that Repko is a handly 5th outfielder to have around to play good defense, pinch run, maybe come in to pinch hit occassionly; but certainly not to start. Werth, even at 75%, is a better player. Depo is high on Werth; if he wasn't, Randy Johnson would have been pitching the last half of the season with LA last year. I think that Repko is just another of Tracy's pet players due to hustle or some other BS. And I really don't expect him to be on the roster next season, unless it's as a 5th guy.

Add Repko to the list of guys with inflated trade value due to scrappiness.

2005-08-03 13:01:16
141.   King of the Hobos
Zobrist actually walks more often than Denker. Problem is he has 100 fewer PAs in the Sally league. He also Ks less

Zobrist walks 16.0% of the time, Denker only 15.8% (only considering Sally stats)

2005-08-03 13:02:47
142.   rageon
122 It's great to see that Martin is as good defensively as he is offensively, which is something I really wasn't aware of. Definetly makes having in the system a little more exciting.
2005-08-03 13:03:12
143.   Steve
We got a thing that's called...Repko love
We got a thing that's called...Repko love
2005-08-03 13:04:29
144.   King of the Hobos
Also, about Denker and Zobrist, Denker is 4 years younger.
2005-08-03 13:06:43
145.   coachbean
Zobrirst 17 2B and 2 HR in 247 AB
Denker 23 2B and 21 HR in 358 AB

Zobrist 24 year old playing Lo A
Denker 19 year old (soon to be 20) playing Lo A

2005-08-03 13:07:53
146.   Steve
I am angry at DePodesta because the job of fifth outfielder whipping boy has traditionally gone to a Mormon (Hermansen, Christensen), and now he comes in and gives it to Repko and Grabowski.
2005-08-03 13:08:01
147.   Johnson
[90] Not only that, but I use Telemachus (PowerBook G4) to post on Dodger Thoughts. I sold Odysseus (PowerBook G3) and Aeneas (removable hard drive) in a package deal. Achilles (iMac) lies dormant in case of need, while Penelope (external hard drive) is a stay-at-home replacement for Aeneas.

Yes, I have issues, but they can be fun to deal with sometimes!

(Odds of getting mocked rise greatly if I post this.)

2005-08-03 13:11:00
148.   Xeifrank
RHP Armas pitching today. I guess that means Choi sits since it's a lefty or a righty pitching. Any reports from Tracy on Armas' arm angle? FJT, Xei
2005-08-03 13:13:27
149.   Sam DC
109 Um, google is trying to convinceme that your handle refers to past Uruguayan soccer glories. Is that right?

And is anyone else concerned that the word googol won't be as cool to our children as it was to us (and they won't know how it's really spelled either!)?

2005-08-03 13:17:05
150.   Eric Enders
*Zobrist 24 year old playing Lo A
Denker 19 year old (soon to be 20) playing Lo A*

You probably already know this, but they've both been promoted to Hi A... that's why BA didn't have Zobrist's Low A stats. (Or Denker's either for that matter.)

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-08-03 13:19:47
151.   coachbean
Yeah I know they were both promoted, but the ABs at Hi A are still fairly small (under 60 for Zobrist, and only 11 for Denker)
2005-08-03 13:22:49
152.   Eric Enders
141 -- I used to have a gaggle of computers named Ophelia, Desdemona, Iago, etc.

There was also a CPU named Norman Bates, which we had to keep on a different network because, like his real-life (fiction-life?)counterpart, he didn't "play well with others."

2005-08-03 13:24:13
153.   Penarol1916
149. The number is just something random I assign myself. Penarol's glories are not consigned to the past, just because their players decide quit to playing in the middle of the season and run off to France and sign with a team illegally doesn't mean that there isn't more glory ahead for los manyas.

147. Ain't nothin' wrong with the fetishization of the Illiad, Odyssey, and Aeneid.

2005-08-03 13:25:50
154.   bokonon42
My computer is Mister Señor Love Daddy.
2005-08-03 13:28:11
155.   Nick Iyengar
Any DT posters going to the game tonight?
2005-08-03 13:28:30
156.   Johnson
[152], [153] Nice to know I'm not alone!
2005-08-03 13:29:52
157.   Johnson
Re: me at 156
Huh, thought it was supposed to be two brackets.
2005-08-03 13:31:40
158.   Jon Weisman
Is it not true that MLB did not officially ban these substances until recently, meaning that almost all of Palmeiro's career, even if you assume that he's been using, he was within the rules?
2005-08-03 13:37:18
159.   Denezin

Nick - Yes. I'll be up in 452, row 4 or so. Sam DC shelled out the big bucks and will be in 113.

I'll be at the Pour House before (4th and Penn Ave SE) and perhaps Trusty's afterwards (new bar opened up at 14th and Penn Ave SE).

I'll definitely be at Trusty's after the game tomorrow night (flying back to LA Friday morning :) )

2005-08-03 13:39:10
160.   Telemachos
[158] I've always been confused at how steroids are considered illegal under federal law but somehow baseball never officially banned them. Wouldn't the federal ban supercede baseball? Or do I have my facts hopelessly muddled?

[147]Pro-Hellene that I am, I'm delighted that Odysseus and Telemachos are computer names, whereas Aeneas was merely a hard drive. :)

2005-08-03 13:42:20
161.   Sam DC
159 I'll stop by Trusty's after the game tonight. Mush, Capdodger, anyone else local free? I have a relatively complete hall pass tonight; might as well make the most of it. I'll be wearing, um, blue.
2005-08-03 13:42:59
162.   Nick Iyengar

Cool, I'll be up in's the upper deck, about parallel with 3rd base, but they're actually pretty good seats.

I was thinking about stopping by Cap Lounge or the Hawk 'n' Dove (also on Penn). Depends when I get get out of the office.

Lot of Dodger fans last night, hope to see a bunch more at RFK today.

2005-08-03 13:47:49
163.   kent
I'm surprised so many of you would actually bench a gold glove shortstop. Is it because defensive brilliance is harder to quantify?
2005-08-03 13:49:42
164.   Sam DC
162 Those upper deck seats really are pretty good at RFK. Although (or because) the steps are amazingly steep. Being up there with little kids is a series workout, both for the legs and the heart.

So none of you guys was the one wearing the Steve Sax jersey, huh?

2005-08-03 13:51:28
165.   Nick Iyengar

I'm not the Sax jersey guy, but I saw him too. Also saw a guy with a Repko jersey...didn't know they actually made those.

2005-08-03 13:51:45
166.   kent
158- Does a sport really need a rule that says it isn't ok to commit a felony?
2005-08-03 13:53:48
167.   Borchard504
"disappearing himself" - great verb - in the same tone of like "efforting" to get something accomplished. i luv it.
2005-08-03 13:54:32
168.   Steve
163 -- There are different levels of Izturis hate. There is the Hate Izturis All The Time Club. Then there is the Hate Izturis Because Tracy Insists On Leading Him Off Club. I suspect that the second club is much bigger than the first, and if Izturis was hitting eighth where he belonged, he would be more popular around here.

Myself, I would just as soon see Perez play shortstop.

2005-08-03 13:54:48
169.   Jon Weisman
166 - No, but I'm not holding my breath that Palmeiro will be charged with one.
2005-08-03 13:56:26
170.   fanerman
What's the last level?
2005-08-03 13:57:09
171.   fanerman
Nevermind. I thought the "there" was a "three." I'm seeing things again.
2005-08-03 13:57:59
172.   Denezin
I wasn't wearing Steve Sax jersey, but he was my favorite player growing up. Had a good time last night rehashing origin of Steve Sax disease with my neighbor at the game yesterday.

I saw one interesting jersey that had Nationals written across the front, Nationals patch on the left shoulder, Dodgers patch on the right shoulder, and Gagne written across the back. Jersey was black/blue/white in color.

I thought about wearing my Nationals shirt with my LA cap, but I'm going all Dodgers gear tonight.

2005-08-03 13:58:43
173.   Eric Enders
166-- Is possession of steroids really a felony, or was that exaggeration for effect?
2005-08-03 14:00:16
174.   Nagman
Okay, I give up, somebody please enlighten me as to what 'JtD' stands for... (I tried)
2005-08-03 14:01:26
175.   Ben P
I'll be at the game tonight in section 129 along the LF foul line, sweating like Patrick Ewing in double-overtime. I'll wear my Dodger hat with no fear. By definition pretty much every Nats fan is also a fan of some other team (Either the Orioles or wherever they lived before DC) so people here don't freak out so much at seeing the opposing team's hat.
2005-08-03 14:16:30
176.   db1022
158 - I asked that question in the original Palmeiro thread, but no one seemed to know (or care). I thought I heard that it was 1991 that steroids were officially banned, but they didn't test so that was pretty meaningless as a policy.

Can anyone confirm?

2005-08-03 14:17:51
177.   db1022
173 - It's probably the "possession with intent to sell" that's a felony (just like pot, which is a misdemeanor possesion charge, unless you have intent to sell). Not that I know or anything...
2005-08-03 14:21:22
178.   db1022
Yep, 1991 according to Gammons.

"And once steroids were made illegal in 1991 and in the next two years the subject was widely discussed -- like at the 1993 World Series -- where was Bud Selig to investigate?"

2005-08-03 14:22:24
179.   db1022
Going for the cycle, maybe that was "...made illegal [by the government] in 1991..."

Brackets/bolding mine.

2005-08-03 14:23:59
180.   Midwest Blue
174 - Joel the Destroyer (for Guzman). I think it's a Steve-thing (isn't it always?)
2005-08-03 14:24:56
181.   db1022
180 - Phew, Midwest. I thought I was all by myself for a second.
2005-08-03 14:25:11
182.   kent
173- In most jurisdictions, possession of steroids without a prescription is a felony. (I'm a Deputy DA.)
2005-08-03 14:26:46
183.   Steve
178 -- Is Gammons referring to being made illegal in baseball, or when steroids were added to the Controlled Substances Act? They were added about that time.

Possession of them without a prescription is a federal offense; they are in the same category as Vicodin and other generally prescribed drugs. Punishment for possession is up to one year, which would make it a misdemeanor. An intent to distribute makes it a five-year sentence and a felony.

Each state would have different rules -- I suspect some would make it a felony and others a misdemeanor.

2005-08-03 14:31:23
184.   dzzrtRatt
[152] I once had a cat I named Orestes. His pledge was to avenge my death, should it occur before his.
2005-08-03 14:32:11
185.   Sam DC
175 Ben P -- see 159 and 161
2005-08-03 14:44:43
186.   gcrl
184 et al
not sure where this thread started (just logged in, and am too lazy to read back through everything), but i recall the dog's name on thirtysomething was grendel (different mythology, i know).

i toyed with naming my dog (since i didn't have a horse) bucephalus, but settled on good ol' buck, based on jack london's call of the wild. now that was a dog.

2005-08-03 14:44:45
187.   molokai
Good to see all these Dodger fans living in DC or probably Virginia. Spent a year in Alexandria in 69 while my Dad worked at the Pentagon and saw my 1st game at RFK. Hondo was the bomb back then.

My wife asked me about Rafy last night. If she asked me today my whole story would change. Beside a blanket apology to Congress, he needs to make one to Canseco. How sad it that. Perjury just doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent anymore.

I always liked Grissom as a Dodger as he was a lefty killer. Really liked him when he was in his prime for the Expo's. Saw him at a charity softball game in Palm Springs and he was awesome.

2005-08-03 14:45:18
188.   molokai
Izzy will have a solid end of the year and the memory of his pukish June/July will dissapate but the Tracy haters will continue to multiply as he's lost the reason he used to be a good manager. Have his bench coaches changed since 2003/2004? I think they have and maybe we can look there for the reason he's not so smart anymore.
2005-08-03 14:47:28
189.   Brendan

I believe you saw a replica of a Gagne All star jersey. the National being a reference to the National League and not the Nationals.

2005-08-03 14:47:55
190.   Paul B
To beat the deadest of horses:

Like many, I'm somewhat dubious of any RISP numbers from a small sample. Just a quick look at the last three years (not counting 2005) shows that our would-be and our ersatz first basemen perform thusly with men in scoring position:

Choi 138/383/428/811
Phillips 198/376/354/730

Their career averages present as so:

Choi 841/349/442/791
Phillips 1108/324/386/710

Conclusion: Choi is the better hitter. Unsurprisingly, over a large enough sample, Choi will outperform Phillips in most, if not all, contexts. (Oh and, the "ability" to hit with RISP, to the extent it exists, is possessed equally by both players)

Tracy's willingness to use the small sample from 2005 appears to indicate either (1) that he's not too bright (or at least has a very tenuous grasp of statistics) or (2) that he's being disingenuous and really has it out for Choi. It's possible, however, (and I think ultimately the case) that Tracy is doing what most people do: starting with a conclusion that he arrived at by some inscrutable and unassailable process informed by observation and intuition, then buttressing that belief with a hodgepodge of whatever data conveniently support the conclusion.

But whatever the explanation, man it's sure annoying!

2005-08-03 14:52:36
191.   molokai
On another note, two players who many considered done have won the AL Player of the month awards. Giambi/Zito
So not only did Beane trade the right pitchers, he kept the right one. I guess after this latest Oakland revival that we can safely say that Depo was not the power behind the throne, and that Mr. Beane is one kick ass GM. Hate to be the Rangers/Mariners because the West is going to be a 2 team race for next few years much like the Yankee/Red Sox races in the East for the last 10 years. JMO
2005-08-03 14:53:52
192.   Paul B
177 Not that you'd need the advice, but watch out--in some places, like Alabama, simple possession of pot (or whatever controlled substance) can indeed be, and often is, a felony.
2005-08-03 15:04:50
193.   JJoeScott
124 I think like Tracy does that A. Perez is a man without a position right now. But I've been surprised by how good Kent plays 2B - no doubt that's part of why he's still there and A. Perez sits.

I know that there's a percentage of posters here who don't think "chemistry" is significant to winning, but Tracy certainly does and there's something "chemistry"-related about his decisions to not play Choi and A. Perez. We're not in the dugout or clubhouse, so we don't what it is ... but there's something there.

163 I'm with you on this. For those of us privileged to see Bill Russell play SS ... well, it's nice to have Izzy.

2005-08-03 15:06:26
194.   King of the Hobos
Save for pitchers, and Bennett over Schneider, both teams have the exact same line up as yesterday.
2005-08-03 15:12:18
195.   regfairfield
193 Thankfully there are two players other than Kent that could make room for Perez.

If Tracy isn't starting them because of chemistry, well, then that's an even worse reason than what he's given.

2005-08-03 15:13:19
196.   micktissue
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseam but is there any evidence, though interview or divining Tracy's brain, as to why Choi is not starting tonight?

Surely the Dodger staff have the same information Jon posted here and, knowing that Choi is a streaky hitter (aren't they all?), you'd think they would have taken notice of his tater yesterday as the possible start of a new streak. Is it dumb or is it a agenda item, i.e., no at bats for Choi until his OPS is 2.000.

ARRRRGHHH! Tracy drives me nutty!

2005-08-03 15:13:49
197.   King of the Hobos
Also, Gameday says Alvarez is still on the roster. I don't like being a man down, Tracy has a reason to use Carrara.
2005-08-03 15:15:07
198.   regfairfield
196 Emperical evidence shows us that Choi is the fourth string first baseman. This is why he doesn't start.
2005-08-03 15:15:42
199.   Jon Weisman
FYI - this will be the game chat thread for tonight. No separate thread.
2005-08-03 15:17:28
200.   Steve
The only chemistry problem here is that between Jim Tracy and a bottle of gin.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-08-03 15:17:41
201.   db1022
This Phillips-over-Choi is the most maddening development since...well since keeping Erickson on the roster.

I could accept Saenz over Choi, or Perez over Choi, or even Robles over Choi.

But Phillips makes no sense. If you want a RH hitter, go Saenz. If you want a good defender, Choi? Phillips brings nothing besides "clutchness".

2005-08-03 15:18:44
202.   micktissue
198 - Yes, I know, empirically - and because I look at the box scores, listen to the games and all - that others start ahead of him on a regular basis. But what evidence does Tracy give for the decision? Anyone?
2005-08-03 15:20:41
203.   regfairfield
201 I think try to think this through logically isn't pointless now.

Besides Phillips hit a home run as a starter, and Choi hit one as a pinch hitter. They must be made for those roles, right?

2005-08-03 15:21:07
204.   King of the Hobos
The good news is that Phillips will have to catch at some point. I can't believe that's good news...
2005-08-03 15:22:56
205.   db1022
204 - Why, so Kent can play 1st and Perez can get in the lineup?

Or maybe Navarro would play 3rd?

2005-08-03 15:24:46
206.   bokonon42
200- Anybody handy with photoshop? Leak a few picks of Tracy hitting the bottle in the company of some reporter-babe (man or woman) to Ron Fineman. Tracy's got a moral terpitude clause in his contract, hasn't he?
2005-08-03 15:26:14
207.   db1022
205 - Sorry, that sounded snotty. I meant that it's going to take more than just Phillips getting behind the plate to get Choi a start.
2005-08-03 15:27:40
208.   bokonon42
206 Or pics. I'm okay with either.
2005-08-03 15:30:15
209.   Steve
Isn't throwing games moral turpitude? So isn't Phillips at first enough on its own to trigger an m.t. clause?
2005-08-03 15:36:20
210.   Benaiah
What I really don't understand is how Tracy can justify the risk of playing our backup catcher everyday. It is risky enough only having one catcher (a third is a luxury), but by playing Phillips everyday he reduces us to 1.5 catchers on the roster. If Phillips gets ejected or injured or anything, than we would be performing with no safety net. Even our double secret backup catchers (Werth and Grabbowski) aren't with us right now. I thought Tracy was an old school manager, isn't there something against this sort of foolhardy risk taking in "the book"?
2005-08-03 15:37:27
211.   dzzrtRatt
Today, the LA Times' editorial integrity was handed over to Jim Tracy to allow him to indirectly defend his benching of Choi.

What should happen is the top dog Times reporter or editor should publish an interview with Tracy in which the manager is forced to answer a series of direct questions about the Choi situation, i.e.

What is it about a guy with power, a high OBP, a good eye and a good glove that you don't like?

Why did you move a guy into a new position (after he'd failed in his old one) in the middle of a pennant race, while leaving a proven starter on the bench?

What would Choi have to show you to get, say, four starts in a row?

Is there something about Choi you don't like, and if so, what is it?

Many fans think Choi should be starting, and they show their support every time he comes to bat in Dodger Stadium. What do you know that they don't?

If DePodesta ordered you to play Choi, would you resign?

2005-08-03 15:37:33
212.   Robert Fiore
The Choi situation reminds me of something Bill James wrote about how many managers will not trust a knuckleball pitcher as a reliever in a critical situation regardless of what the pitcher's record is or how superior it might be to an alternative conventional pitcher. It's just a basic principle in managers' minds that the knuckleball is a trick pitch that cannot be relied upon.

I think there's something similar going on in Tracy's mind about Choi. He's seen on numerous occasions how Choi can become a hole in the lineup for an extended period of time, and his perception seems to be that regardless of how superior Choi's overall stats are, Phillips is less likely on any given day to be a hole in the lineup. This isn't a belief I endorse, it's just one I suspect Tracy has.

2005-08-03 15:41:09
213.   Steve
Today, the LA Times' editorial integrity was handed over to Jim Tracy to allow him to indirectly defend his benching of Choi.

Well said.

2005-08-03 15:42:51
214.   db1022
210 - Good point that I don't think has been made yet.

Phillips is more than a crappy hitter - he's the back up catcher!

2005-08-03 15:46:28
215.   Jon Weisman
211, 213 - I think that statement about the editorial integrity is a little strong. I think Henson should be praised for questioning the choice, when other reporters have seemingly bought into it completely. I would have like to have seen follow-up along the lines of my post this morning, instead of implicitly allowing for Tracy's reasoning to seem valid, but to say that this was an issue of integrity is hyperbolic. Of course, perhaps that was your intention.

212 - makes sense to me.

2005-08-03 15:46:42
216.   Eric L

Tracy's bench coat for '03 and '04 was Jim Riggleman. Riggleman left to become the minor league field coordinator for the Cards in the offseason.

Jim Lett is the bench coach now.

2005-08-03 15:47:12
217.   Eric L
Oops.. I should have said bench coach. Maybe Riggleman was his bench coat too, but I doubt it.
2005-08-03 15:48:13
218.   Eric Enders
210 -- I've never understood the whole thing about treating your backup catcher like he's the Bubble Boy from Seinfeld.

IMO, an ideal backup catcher would also play another position or two, and hit well enough to not totally embarrass himself at the plate. In other words, Jason Phillips.

If you treat the backup catcher like fine crystal, you're essentially limiting yourself to a 24-man roster. Why would you want to do that?

The chances of both your existing catcher AND your backup catcher leaving the game due to injury are pretty darn remote. And if it happens, so what? Bring Repko and his shotgun arm in to catch, and deal with it.

Even if such an unlikely scenario were to occur, you'd still only have to use your emergency catcher for half of one game, AT MOST.

I'm all for maximizing the use of the backup catcher and, therefore, maximizing the use of the 25-man roster.

2005-08-03 15:49:02
219.   Nagman
Not to mention he is slower than Saenz, which means if he becomes a crucial baserunner, he's coming out of the game... or is he? As mentioned before by somebody, he has to stay in the game or we are left without a backup catcher.

Are we begging for this situation to arise just to see what happens?

2005-08-03 15:49:25
220.   the OZ
Joe Sheehan write something interesting about the Nationals and one-run games today at BP. In the broader context, he listed two sets of division standings: the first, the standings according to one-run contests. The second, the standings according to all other games.

SDG 19-10 --
ARI 21-15 1.5
LOS 14-13 4.0
SFO 14-14 4.5

ARI 31-41 --
LOS 34-45 0.5
SDG 33-44 0.5
SFO 31-46 2.5

Essentially, the difference in the NL West standings can be almost entirely explained by one-run games.

2005-08-03 15:49:54
221.   micktissue
If the team is designed by the GM, and the GM is SABR brain, and the fact that the obvious SABR choice to play 1B never plays says to me there may likely be tension between Tracy and Depo.

I certainly hope that's the case anyway because I'd really be depressed if Depo blesses this arrangement.

2005-08-03 15:50:00
222.   jasonungar05
Dodger OPS. I guess the ability to hit for power and get on base is no big deal to Trace.

J.D. Drew .931
Jeff Kent .926
Olmedo Sáenz .864
Antonio Pérez .843
Hee-Seop Choi .808
Milton Bradley .803
Ricky Ledee .775
Jayson Werth .730
Oscar Robles .730
Jason Repko .706
José Valentín .693
Jason Phillips .668
Izzy .642

2005-08-03 15:51:55
223.   kent
I guess I'm the only one who thinks Choi is too streaky, that he'll give you a great week followed by four miserable weeks. Admittedly this is just my "gut feeling" but with the game on the line in the eight or ninth, I'd rather see Phillips at the plate than Choi. I do think a case can be made that Choi hits best when the pressure is off (ie leading off an inning) & Phillips does his best work when it counts the most. As Jeff Kent says, it's not about average, its about producing runs.
2005-08-03 15:55:16
224.   still bevens

There was an interview with either Tracy or Depo before the trade deadline about the 1 run stat. They were saying that most teams 1 run game winning percentage is 50% and that SD and AZs were abnormally high and due to come down. Thus the Dodgers have a decent shot at winning the west when you look at this stat along with LAs record against both teams..

2005-08-03 15:55:43
225.   Eric L
The only edge that Phillips has over Choi in "producing runs" is RBIs.

Phillips has scored fewer runs and doesn't get on base as often as Choi.

2005-08-03 15:57:18
226.   Steve
Henson didn't question the choice. He raved about the choice, then gave Tracy a free quote without reservation.

I thought that when Erickson was gone, I could relax. But no. Now it's Phillips. Every day is a new crusade. Remind me why I ever liked DePodesta?

2005-08-03 15:57:59
227.   Vishal
kent- in that case, shouldn't phillips be the one hitting in the pinch?
2005-08-03 15:58:17
228.   Jon Weisman
218 - I agree.

223 - You act like the great week doesn't count. If he can carry the team for a week, I'd like to give him the opportunity to do it more.

And again, let me remind - 10 of his 14 homers tied the game or gave the Dodger the lead.

And again, credit for a run doesn't just go to the RBI man. I think the person who gets on base and scores the run should get partial credit, too.

2005-08-03 15:58:57
229.   Langhorne

Which is why the backup catcher is usually the last player off the bench. Now we take a risk pinch hitting for Navarro or Phillips. I think this might be another (surreal thinking) reason Tracy is starting Phillips at first. If Phillips is on the bench, conventional thinking is, that you can't use him to pinch hit because he is the backup catcher. If Phillips can't catch and can't be used as a pinch hitter then he has to start.

It hurts my brain trying to think like Tracy.

2005-08-03 15:59:46
230.   kent
225- RBIs are the key to the game. A two out walk with no one on raises your obp &ops but doesn't win games. Driving in runs wins.
2005-08-03 16:03:13
231.   kent
227- pinch hitting only allows for one pressure at bat per game. Hitting with risp can come up several times a game.
2005-08-03 16:03:33
232.   dzzrtRatt
Jon, re: 215

This sentence from Henson's story was the one that set me off: "His decision to start Phillips at first base and continue to use Choi as a pinch-hitter proved astute." Following that, there were no direct Tracy quotes, just the runners-in-scoring-position stats that read to me like Henson was helping Tracy craft his defense. It certainly didn't read like Henson was challenging Tracy's logic.

I'll give Henson points for mentioning the issue, and for reporting that "the front office" is bemused by Tracy's decision. But, in a way, wasn't he just covering his butt? This whole thing is likely to blow up later, possibly with an open feud between DePo and Tracy, and Tracy's eventual firing. Failing to tell this story now would've made the Times look even worse later.

2005-08-03 16:04:23
233.   Eric Enders
228 -- Are you implying that the 10 of 14 has predictive value for the future? And therefore also implying that Choi, to some degree, chooses when to hit home runs and when not to?

I agree that Choi's streakiness is pretty near irrelevant -- as long as the hits come, who cares what the pattern is? But I don't think he can be counted on to continue to hit mostly game-tying and go-ahead homers.

2005-08-03 16:04:25
234.   coachbean
Every day that Choi doesn't start against a righty I lose respect for DePo either because he can't compell Tracy to comply or because he is too stupid and agrees with Tracy. But I also lose respect for Brad Penny who is supposedly Choi's friend. Maybe its not in Choi's personality or culture to complain to the manager about PT but big Brad should speak up.
2005-08-03 16:06:32
235.   fanerman
I would think that if Choi got more regular playing time he wouldn't be as streaky.
2005-08-03 16:07:07
236.   jasonungar05
I think the point that many of us feel is simply that the talk that Choi is too streaky or choi is this or choi is that is hard to say when not given a legit opportunity to play consistently without looking over his shoulder.

I feel you play a guy who hits 7HR in 4 days cause not that many people can.

2005-08-03 16:07:33
237.   Jon Weisman
232 - fair enough.

228 - no, I'm not implying that it's predictive. I just hate when people dismiss Choi's "great weeks" as if they were irrelevant.

2005-08-03 16:09:04
238.   Langhorne

I agree. Which is why I would keep Phillips on the bench and not have any reservations about using him to pinch hit at a crucial point in the game.

2005-08-03 16:09:27
239.   King of the Hobos
Bradley finally gets a hit, good to see
2005-08-03 16:09:50
240.   Eric Enders
I agree with Jon's post 215. However, dzzrtRat has a good point in 232 with the sentence in bold. That specific sentence really doesn't belong in a news story. It's clearly opinion, and a not very supportable one at that.

I think Henson normally does a fine job, but that one specific sentence is certainly an example of bending over backward to put things in a pro-Tracy light. (Henson is, IIRC from his earlier interview with Jon, a huge Tracy supporter.)

2005-08-03 16:10:25
241.   kent
Streakiness does matter, otherwise you win two games by 6 runs and lose 5 games by 1. A consistent steady hitter, like Lo Duca or Sheffield, trumps a streak hitter who ends up with a similar ops.
2005-08-03 16:10:41
242.   db1022
218 - I guess I consider catching to be a unique skill, that most players simply do not have the ability to do (kinda like Antonio Perez and bunting).

If that's the case, I reserve my backup catcher for necessary times only.

2005-08-03 16:11:31
243.   SiGeg
Stubbs commented earlier 41 on the Choi fixation here compared to the more passive attitude regarding the lack of playing time for A Perez. People have made good points regarding why Choi should play, but I think this remains unsaid:

Choi has been unfairly maligned (e.g., in the papers, on TV, certainly on talk radio, less often and less viciously by people here on DT) in a way that A Perez simply hasn't been. Choi is often regarded as a pathetic, awful, talentless baseball player. I've heard that he "can't hit" many times (sometimes the idea is that his bat speed is too slow to hit good fastballs, sometimes it's that he can't hit curveballs), and I've heard him mocked and ridiculed. He's treated like a joke. It's sad that a player who is actually pretty decent and could become very good is derided as pathetic. When Tracy appears to buy into this perception of Choi, it just makes it all the more frustrating.

Perez does deserve to play more often, but he has never been ridiculed the way Choi has, so there's less of a instinct – on my part at least – to defend him.

2005-08-03 16:11:53
244.   bokonon42
234- Disagree. That's the whole thing about the sinister 'veterans have complained about Choi's defense" that I don't get. What kind of a manager has his players telling him what to do? Tommy Lasorda would've have ripped Orel Hershiser's jugular vein out using only his teeth if Orel had come and told him what to do. Brad Penny has to worry about his game. DePo needs to deal with Tracy.
2005-08-03 16:12:05
245.   db1022
241 - Uh oh, now you've done it.

Cue the 1st half/2nd half splits for LoDuca, and see if you think that is "steady".

2005-08-03 16:13:17
246.   Steve
230 -- Two mistakes you are making, but there are probably more:

1) RBIs are a team stat. Choi batted second for much of the year, giving him fewer opportunities to drive in runs. Phillips hit behind Drew, Kent, Bradley for some of the year, giving him more opportunities.

2) Hitting with RISP has no predictive value over the short term. There is a huge debate going on right now whether one can predict ability to hit with RISP in a 10 or 15 year career. But there is no evidence, outside of simple sophistry, that the ability to hit with RISP over 80 at-bats is predictive of the next 80 or 800.

This becomes evident over the course of Phillips' own career. Last year, Our New Eternal Savior hit .205 with RISP. The year before .319.

Phillips has also been very bad over a fairly significant sample size against RHP. If Phillips happened to have a Korean surname and stand 6'5", Steve Henson would be writing about how Phillips can't hit righthanders. But Phillips (and Izturis, and Repko) had the good fortune of not being a tall Korean, and therefore gets very many free passes Choi does not.

2005-08-03 16:13:25
247.   fanerman
Well each half is steady when taken separately, right?
2005-08-03 16:14:38
248.   Eric Enders
241 -- Paul ".230 Career 2nd Half Average" LoDuca is a "consistent steady hitter"?

Your larger point, that streakiness is bad because it makes for inefficient distribution of resources, is a legitimate point. However, it is far more relevant to the team as a whole than to specific individuals. You really only waste runs when the whole team gets hot and cold together.

2005-08-03 16:14:45
249.   King of the Hobos
Some pitchers request a personal catcher, maybe Penny could request a personal first baseman. He needs to be comfortable throwing pick off pitches
2005-08-03 16:14:46
250.   Steve
A consistent steady hitter, like Lo Duca

Nothing like adding a little levity to the proceedings

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-08-03 16:15:13
251.   db1022
244 - And I would assume that it isn't Odalis complaining about Choi's defense, given his earlier criticism about the team's offense.

Apparently our pitching staff wants a team full of Scott Rolens - superior offensive and defensive players. Seems simple enough.

2005-08-03 16:16:36
252.   King of the Hobos
First inning Houlton is shining bright
2005-08-03 16:17:11
253.   fanerman
Yeah, part of his new revolutionary idea of actually caring about opposing base-stealers.
2005-08-03 16:17:50
254.   dzzrtRatt
re: 241 Paul LoDuca's ears must be burning to hear himself compared to Sheffield.

For the record, if we still had Gary Sheffield, and he played first base, I would defend any manager who played Sheffield over Choi. But it's a long, dizzying drop from Sheff to LoDuca, and another vertiginous plunge from Dukie to Phillips.

2005-08-03 16:18:31
255.   kent
Its early, but so far Lo Duca is hitting 367 since this year's all star break. (90 ABs)
2005-08-03 16:20:33
256.   db1022
255 - So does that support your theory of LoDuca's consistency, or contradict it?
2005-08-03 16:21:07
257.   King of the Hobos
Navarro really hasn't done so good throwing out runners
2005-08-03 16:21:14
258.   Steve
LoDuca 2004 in OPS

Apr -- 993
May -- .745
June -- 633
July -- 880
Aug -- 846
Sep -- 527

LoDuca 2003 in OPS

Apr -- 720
May -- 959
June -- 836
July -- 659
Aug -- 586
Sep -- 537

LoDuca 2002 in OPS

Apr -- 779
May -- 791
June -- 876
July -- 743
Aug -- 440
Sep -- 771

Mystery Guest's 2005 in OPS

Apr -- .818
May -- .774
June -- .773
July -- .807

Now, who's consistent again? Because I think I must have had bananas in my ears and didn't read that correctly.

2005-08-03 16:21:14
259.   coachbean
[244] If Brad Penny is afraid of Jim Tracy then he has no bussiness pitching at the major league level. To be a pitcher you need a mental toughness, fearlessness, and a high level of determination. If 6-4 230lb Penny can't stand up to Tacy then I will have to start calling him Brad Puny. If he is afraid of Tracy mismangaing his games then there is already a problem with that player-manager relationship.
2005-08-03 16:21:18
260.   Marty
Bring up Martin! :)
2005-08-03 16:23:50
261.   Telemachos
Meanwhile, over in Pittsburg, our friend Chan Ho has promptly given up 2 runs in the first, runner on second and no one out.

Pirates 2, Pads 1.

2005-08-03 16:24:11
262.   King of the Hobos
Houlton didn't allow a run. That's the first time in a long time...
2005-08-03 16:24:42
263.   bokonon42
258- Month to Month stats could still conceal a great deal of streakiness. Not that I'm conceding that streakiness matters much. I don't think it does.
2005-08-03 16:25:07
264.   Odysseus
259 it sounds like Penny could use an heart and soul transplant
2005-08-03 16:26:41
265.   Nagman
Would you rather have a guy who hit .150 for a month then .350 for a month or a guy who hit a solid .250 over two months?

After watching Finley last season, Drew this season, it made me wonder.

2005-08-03 16:27:19
266.   Steve
263 -- Ah, but it's better than no evidence at all.
2005-08-03 16:27:49
267.   dzzrtRatt
re: 261 Every time I think of Chan Ho Park in a Padre uniform, I can't help but smile. That news made my summer.

The Dodgers might not be good enough to benefit from that blunder in 2005, but somebody will.

2005-08-03 16:27:49
268.   bokonon42
259- I'm not saying Penny should cower in fear of the Mighty Tracy. I'm saying there has to be a chain of command. And no matter how fearless, every player has to have some degree of deference toward the manager, or the whole team goes to pot (cf. 04/05 Lakers).
2005-08-03 16:27:54
269.   Benaiah
Come on Valentin, don't swing at the 3-0 pitch! He was clearly going to walk you.
2005-08-03 16:28:16
270.   Jacob L
OMG did we really just let Jose Valentin, fresh off 3 months on the DL, swing 3-0?
2005-08-03 16:28:30
271.   scareduck
CHP gave up a third run in his first inning of work as a Padre. Pirates 3, Padres 1.
2005-08-03 16:28:32
272.   King of the Hobos
Pirates up 3-1
2005-08-03 16:29:09
273.   Jon Weisman
I think the six-homer weekend is misleading people about Choi's streakiness. Aside from the homers, Choi was producing for several weeks at a time. He of course goes through slumps - as does every single other hitter on the Dodger roster. Anyone remember Jeff Kent in May?
2005-08-03 16:29:32
274.   FirstMohican
3-0 count Valentin pops out. I'm going to have a heart attack.
2005-08-03 16:29:58
275.   jasonungar05
3-1 Pirates
2005-08-03 16:30:14
276.   bokonon42
263 Better than nothing? Is that your new standard? I demand that you spend the next hour breaking down weekly stats, and then if you don't find enough streakiness, then I want day-by-days! Better than nothing... pff. 8^)
2005-08-03 16:30:59
277.   FirstMohican
Looks like the Padre aquisitions are really paying off. Park - 3 runs, 1 ER - because of... Randa.
2005-08-03 16:31:05
278.   dzzrtRatt
A clubhouse revolt over Choi's playing time? I don't think multi-millionaires generally behave that way. Over his own playing time, I could see Penny getting hot, but not over another guy's. To them, it's just business. We're the victims.
2005-08-03 16:31:20
279.   Jon Weisman
This is an interesting way to score a run:

Top 1ST B:4 S:1 O:1
Damian Jackson walks.

Top 1ST B:3 S:2 O:2
Joe Randa grounds out, second baseman Jose Castillo to first baseman Brad Eldred. Damian Jackson to 3rd.

Top 1ST B:2 S:2 O:2
With Brian Giles batting, wild pitch by Dave Williams, Damian Jackson scores.

Williams has an error in the game - perhaps that figures in somehow.

2005-08-03 16:31:37
280.   JJoeScott
223 Kent - You are not alone. Phillips might not be my 1B choice, however, but you are not alone.
2005-08-03 16:32:04
281.   Benaiah
269 Navarro knows how to take a 3-0 pitch.
2005-08-03 16:32:17
282.   coachbean
Lyons: "how bout former Dodger Chan ho Park goin' for the Padres?"

Steiner: "And he gave up 3 in the 1st"

Comedy, sweet comedy!!!

Steiner doesn't do it enough, but from time to time he'll just call the idiot he's working with on their crap. When he does this to Downing it is priceless.

2005-08-03 16:32:42
283.   King of the Hobos
They were running Phillips? Did they want a DP?
2005-08-03 16:32:51
284.   bigcpa
Nice AB for Faviau.
2005-08-03 16:32:57
285.   db1022
279 - Here's Yahoo's description:

- E. Young flied out to deep center
- D. Jackson walked
- D. Jackson to second on D. Williams' throwing error
- J. Randa grounded out to second, D. Jackson to third
- D. Jackson scored on wild pitch
- B. Giles flied out to deep center

2005-08-03 16:35:17
286.   Steve
"streaky" is just another way of saying "I hate X" like "heart and soul" and "clutch"
2005-08-03 16:36:10
287.   db1022
280 - I'm not Choi's biggest fan either, but Phillips is ridiculous. Another (maybe a better) argument would be why Phillips over Saenz? They're both right-handed.
2005-08-03 16:37:46
288.   jtshoe
Doesn't this situation call for a bunt in the Tracy manuel?
2005-08-03 16:37:49
289.   FirstMohican
287 - Saenz is only good against pitchers with abnormal arm angles.
2005-08-03 16:38:22
290.   Steve
Repko, the unclutchiest, streakiest chemistry problem the Dodgers have ever had.
2005-08-03 16:38:33
291.   Brendan
Steiner cracks me up

On Repko's half swing

"Did he take?" (Of course everyone else in the world says did he swing?)

"Yes" as camera fails to cut to the umpire before he says "Yes" everyone watching thinks he meant the umpire rung him up. The camera then shows the umpire indicate no swing. Charlie, Charlie

2005-08-03 16:38:57
292.   coachbean
[268] I agree that things work better when there is a chain of command, but a manager who doesn't care what his players think is not a very good manager. Brad Penny doesn't have to give Tracy a beat down, but a few words on his behalf may get Tracy thinking. I think Tracy would respect the opinions of Penny with regard to PT more than he would respect DePo's opinions on the same matter.
2005-08-03 16:39:14
293.   King of the Hobos
Could Bennett set up any further outside on the first ball to Houlton? He barely had his left foot inside the chalk, and there was a full view of the umpire
2005-08-03 16:40:26
294.   Benaiah
287 - That is what I really don't understand, Tracy just hates Choi, but Saenz hits well with RISP, is right handed, has done better than Phillips in every conceivable offensive stat this year, and is seemingly on Tracy's good side. How can Tracy justify starting Phillips over Saenz?
2005-08-03 16:41:25
295.   King of the Hobos
Steiner and Downing really do have a good point with that guy on the wall
2005-08-03 16:42:05
296.   Odysseus
Someone tell Lyons that if you fell to your death from the top of RFK, it would likely not be agonizing at all. It would be instantaneous and instant.
2005-08-03 16:42:25
297.   King of the Hobos
Is anyone else spooked that that guy is nowhere to be seen? He runs fast, that whole area was empty
2005-08-03 16:42:44
298.   Odysseus
And I would be both repetitive and redundant
2005-08-03 16:43:01
299.   Brendan

"That's just wrong" Lyons

"Which Part?" Steiner

2005-08-03 16:43:37
300.   King of the Hobos
296 "It would be instantaneous and instant"

Um, that was repetitive and redundant

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-08-03 16:44:08
301.   scareduck
Waiting for Robinson to check Houlton's glove for pine tar...
2005-08-03 16:44:46
302.   jasonungar05
count me in as a Steiner fan. My mom still misses Ross Porter though.

(she was at Koufax's perfect game)

2005-08-03 16:45:40
303.   scareduck
296 -- it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden deceleration at the end.
2005-08-03 16:46:04
304.   bokonon42
Where's WWSH? He'd back me up on the necessity of a chain of command.
2005-08-03 16:46:21
305.   scareduck
302 one word: Encarnacion.
2005-08-03 16:46:22
306.   Odysseus
300 in other news, Padres now down 2-3, Pirates ahead 3-2
2005-08-03 16:47:59
307.   Steve
305 -- so many things wrong with that word
2005-08-03 16:48:16
308.   Brendan

He is growing on me. I do get the sense he doesn't do a ton of research though. Seems like he arrives in the booth a few minutes before first pitch.

2005-08-03 16:49:02
309.   Odysseus
If Guzman played for the Dodgers, would Tracy start him, but also bat him leadoff?
2005-08-03 16:50:37
310.   Steve
Lyons says that Guzman is in a "funk." So it's not that he's unclutch or streaky, like Choi. He's just a victim of innocent circumstance.
2005-08-03 16:50:38
311.   King of the Hobos
Houlton has a nice pickoff at second
2005-08-03 16:51:05
312.   db1022
Off Topic - Anyone follow hockey? I'm seeing all of these players suddenly becoming free agents. I did a little checking, and apparently part of the new CBA granted free agency for every player 25 and over??? Can that be right?
2005-08-03 16:51:35
313.   Odysseus
wow, that was unusual...did Wilson intentionally not slide all the way back?
2005-08-03 16:51:49
314.   scareduck
309 Izturis played all of June and July. Draw from that what conclusions you will.
2005-08-03 16:52:24
315.   coachbean
[303] well put scareduck... I always tell people... I'm not afraid of heights, I'm afraid of falling from them.

Steiner can't replace Ross (I'll always miss his country accent), but he's not afraid of or intimidated by whichever stupid jock is sitting next to him.

2005-08-03 16:53:25
316.   db1022
4-2 Buccos after Bay homers off of Chan Ho.
2005-08-03 16:53:27
317.   regfairfield
I don't think we can make fun of Guzman until our shortstop starts outperforming him.
2005-08-03 16:53:30
318.   Telemachos
4-2 Pirates on a Jason Bay homer.

Viva los Jasons!

2005-08-03 16:53:38
319.   King of the Hobos
Jackson walked 2 and hit a batter in the first for Jacksonville, but a CS and some AOs got him out of the inning unscathed
2005-08-03 16:53:55
320.   King of the Hobos
Pirates up 4-2 now
2005-08-03 16:56:03
321.   Benaiah
309 - No he would have moved him to second a la Robles and Izturis before him. When a hitter with no power and no ability to get on base besides average stops hitting for average, they should be moved from leadoff to the 2 hole. That is the best "position for them to succeed" I think.
2005-08-03 16:56:22
322.   jtshoe
Phil Nevin was the heart and soul of San Diego
2005-08-03 16:56:36
323.   scareduck
318 along with removing the names from the uniform backs, to maximize the interchangeability of the players, MLB will demand that all players must have the first name Jason starting in 2010. The Dodgers will be the first team to comply.
2005-08-03 16:56:40
324.   Telemachos
5-2 Pirates now. :)
2005-08-03 16:57:09
325.   db1022
321 - I like the 8-hole for those guys.
2005-08-03 16:57:10
326.   scareduck
Pirates 5 Padres 2
2005-08-03 16:57:19
327.   Telemachos
5-2 Pirates now.
2005-08-03 16:57:33
328.   Steve
321 is right. Guzman can still bunt, so that puts him in the "good situational hitter" category.

There's the hit and run, and Robles swings at a pitch over his head.

2005-08-03 16:57:35
329.   King of the Hobos
If no hit & run, Robles has a ball...
2005-08-03 16:57:46
330.   Telemachos
Christ that was weird. Oh well.
2005-08-03 16:57:52
331.   dzzrtRatt
What's the score of the Pirates/Padres game?
2005-08-03 16:58:35
332.   bigcpa
Hopefully we'll be seeing "Guzman, SS" in many Dodger box scores to come- just not this one.
2005-08-03 16:59:22
333.   King of the Hobos
332 I prefer "Guzman, J, SS"
2005-08-03 17:00:26
334.   King of the Hobos
F* Izturis
2005-08-03 17:00:31
335.   coachbean
Izturis trying to take the worlds crappiest SS title from Guzman today
2005-08-03 17:00:44
336.   scareduck
Somebody tell that #$&@ Izturis that he can't steal bases.
2005-08-03 17:00:53
337.   Odysseus
and that's why attempting to steal bases can be a bad idea. Yes I'm talking to you Joe Morgan
2005-08-03 17:00:56
338.   Steve
Tracy is so incompetent. Arguments to the contrary are ridiculous.
2005-08-03 17:01:15
339.   bigcpa
Aaack... did Izzy run on his own??
2005-08-03 17:01:21
340.   Benaiah
Milton Bradley demonstrates that he didn't become the Izturis of the outfield after his injury!
2005-08-03 17:01:28
341.   Jacob L
2005-08-03 17:01:29
342.   Eric L
Memo to Jim Tracy & Cesar Izturis:

Just because someone is fast, it doesn't make them a good base stealer.


A Dodger Fan.

2005-08-03 17:02:09
343.   Benaiah
Of course we would have scored two if Tracy would have learned to never, ever have Cesar attempt to steal a base.
2005-08-03 17:02:13
344.   regfairfield
Well, I've never been more pissed off about a home run.
2005-08-03 17:02:22
345.   fanerman
How do you know when a runner goes off on his own versus a manager's call?
2005-08-03 17:02:53
346.   Telemachos
If that was Izturis on his own, it's moronic.

If Trace gave the order, it's just another idiotic move.

(note: I have no problems with stealing a base, provided you're actually good at it, say 80%+ success rate.)

2005-08-03 17:03:13
347.   Jacob L
345, When he gets thrown out, it was the players' idea.
2005-08-03 17:03:27
348.   King of the Hobos
Despite Abreu's best attempt to get out of the inning, Jackson just drove in Jacksonville's first run (Abreu GIDP'd with the bases loaded)
2005-08-03 17:03:36
349.   Odysseus
and Milton would have had two RBIs, which obviously demonstrates the pointlessness of that stat if Jim Tracy and Cesar Izturis's stupidity makes the difference for Milton's RBIs
2005-08-03 17:03:49
350.   jasonungar05
- C. Izturis caught stealing, pitcher to shortstop
- M. Bradley homered to deep right

Breath people. Deep Breaths. LOL

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-08-03 17:03:57
351.   Eric L

I think I would be hard to tell. A better solution would be for Tracy to tell Cesar he isn't allowed to steal anymore.

2005-08-03 17:04:20
352.   fanerman
I think that's a given to any of the regular DT readers. It's the people that aren't familiar that may take our anti-Izzy-basestealing to mean anti-all-basestealing.
2005-08-03 17:04:38
353.   Nagman
That, to go along with Valentin's green light on 3-0. Ugly.
2005-08-03 17:04:45
354.   Odysseus
in addition to not meaning you are a good basestealer, being fast also is neither necessary nor sufficient to make someone a good leadoff hitter
2005-08-03 17:06:15
355.   Eric L

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. The Milton Bradley prior to this season (the one that walked a bit more) would make a decent leadoff hitter.

2005-08-03 17:06:59
356.   Odysseus
brad wilkerson, however, IS a good leadoff hitter
2005-08-03 17:07:15
357.   bigcpa
Brian Schneider

2003 53% CS
2004 50% CS
2005 39% CS

2005-08-03 17:07:29
358.   Uncle Miltie
I'm sure that play was setup by Tracy. First he tried to hit and run, forcing Robles to swing at a ball, then he steals an RBI from Bradley!
2005-08-03 17:07:42
359.   Jacob L
One of the "This is LA Baseball" ads from earlier in the year featured Cesar stealing a base. In the ad, he was successful 100% of the time. Maybe that's why they stopped showing them.
2005-08-03 17:07:53
360.   fanerman
Speaking of Bradley's walking (or not as much thereof...), do you think he'll start walking more again? He's a young hitter and he may still be "figuring it out."
2005-08-03 17:07:53
361.   Benaiah
346 It is all a matter of perspective, a 40% success rate at getting a hit would be momentous.
2005-08-03 17:08:07
362.   dzzrtRatt
351 Maybe Penny should talk to Izzy about his baserunning.
2005-08-03 17:08:22
363.   King of the Hobos
Phillips learned his lesson about pop ups
2005-08-03 17:09:29
364.   King of the Hobos
357 Bennett is catching, no Schneider
2005-08-03 17:10:13
365.   scareduck
359 - the state attorney general would have had to stop them under the "false advertising" sections of the California Penal Code.

Nice inning by Houlton, finishing on 44 pitches so far.

2005-08-03 17:10:32
366.   King of the Hobos
Denker has hit his first high-A homer
2005-08-03 17:10:46
367.   Eric L
Something funny..

Karros and Izturis have the same career SB%.

2005-08-03 17:10:50
368.   Paul B
287 I don't think it's so surprising that Tracy elects Phillips over Saenz against righties. Tracy has not shown a need for internal consistency, and he apparently does look at some stats. From 2002, the splits on Saenz are truly ridiculous:

vs RHP (AB.OBP/SLG/OPS): 128/397/602/999
vs LHP: 139/313/374/687

In any case, whatever the reason, it's possible that we actually are better off with Phillips when a north paw is on the mound.

(The irony of this whole thing, of course, is that the Saenz v. Phillips argument is exactly the revese of the Choi v. Phillips argument. The three years splits support choosing Phillips over Saenz, while this year's stats indicate no such thing. Conversely, the three year splits clearly show Choi superior to Phillips, while this year's stats at least appear to give Phillips the edge in RISP situations. Perhaps Tracy is just a greater intellect than we give him credit for. After all, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...)

2005-08-03 17:11:31
369.   Telemachos
Maybe Valentin can swing 3-0 again. :)
2005-08-03 17:11:37
370.   King of the Hobos
Much better Jose. See why we don't swing 3-0?
2005-08-03 17:12:42
371.   King of the Hobos
Saenz may be our 1B in the near future...
2005-08-03 17:12:50
372.   scareduck
360 - he's posted close to a unity K/BB ratio before, so yes there's reason to think he could improve.
2005-08-03 17:13:20
373.   Jacob L
The new ad campaign is, "Dodger Stadium: there's no better place to screw up the hit and run, get caught stealing, invent ways to keep your first baseman on the bench, and have your #3 hitter lay down a bunt so that your clean up hitter has the bat taken out of his hands."
2005-08-03 17:14:14
374.   Odysseus
and that's exactly why you don't bunt lyons!
2005-08-03 17:14:30
375.   ROC
I feel horrible. I've been actually wishing Phillips get hurt.

I posted here instead of making a post card (thanks Rob...good site).

2005-08-03 17:16:26
376.   King of the Hobos
"And now you have only one out and there's still a runner in scoring position"-Lyons

Someone is figuring it out

2005-08-03 17:17:17
377.   joekings
Al Downing on the radio just said that that play by Guzman is why he's still in the starting lineup despite his average.
2005-08-03 17:17:35
378.   Odysseus
375 if phillips got hurt, it would just give tracy an opportunity to come up with creative new ways to ruin the lineup. better to hope for something to happen to tracy
2005-08-03 17:18:18
379.   King of the Hobos
Padres tied the game 5-5
2005-08-03 17:18:19
380.   Marty
Why do we think Penny is mad at Choi? Wasn't Penny one of his friends from Florida?
2005-08-03 17:18:36
381.   Benaiah
Armas is getting lucky. This is the second time tonight that the pitcher has come up with RISP and two outs. DJ rose to the challenge both times (2 Ks).
2005-08-03 17:20:03
382.   King of the Hobos
btw, Denker's homer was off Carl Pavano

Jackson gave up 2 runs in the second, and he has yet to record a strike out

2005-08-03 17:20:16
383.   Paul B
381 Luck has nothing to do with it. Inducing a weak-hitting pitcher to the plate in clutch situations is a skill!
2005-08-03 17:20:40
384.   regfairfield
Two more people get hurt and it's time for Choi.
2005-08-03 17:21:19
385.   King of the Hobos
If Phillips was hurt, Rose or Edwards would probably take over at first
2005-08-03 17:21:48
386.   Marty
Choi is officially third-string
2005-08-03 17:22:45
387.   King of the Hobos
Did Steiner just say Kent replaced Phillips at 2nd?
2005-08-03 17:22:49
388.   dzzrtRatt
380. The theory that's been offered is that Penny should be sticking up for Choi with Tracy, because they are friends from their Florida days. I've been thinking about this proposal and I think it would make more sense if Penny just strangled Tracy. If not him, maybe Carolyn Hughes would do it.
2005-08-03 17:23:08
389.   Benaiah
379 The best thing was that Bochy let Park bat with a runner on first after giving up 5 runs and Park managed to get on (through an error) and then score on Young's homerun. Nothing like questionable management moves paying divdends.
2005-08-03 17:23:59
390.   Marty
388. Thanks. I was, as usual, confused.
2005-08-03 17:24:28
391.   fanerman
Eh? Did something happen to Phillips?
2005-08-03 17:25:30
392.   Jacob L
I know that Chan Ho Park provides added amusement, but I don't see much reason to get into scoreboard watching. If anybody feels like winning this division, they will.
2005-08-03 17:26:03
393.   Steve
I am deliriously happy right now. I haven't been this happy since Morro Bay last Oct. 2.
2005-08-03 17:26:16
394.   scareduck
384 - thinking about hiring Tanya Harding?
2005-08-03 17:27:00
395.   scareduck
392 - Oh, why not.
2005-08-03 17:27:19
396.   Benaiah
218 - Now that Phillips is hurt we don't have a backup catcher. Probably it won't matter, but it is still dangerous. Considering that there were and are better options at first I don't understand why Tracy would take the risk.
2005-08-03 17:28:18
397.   King of the Hobos
Was Houlton trying to compensate for the first inning? I don't mind the homer, it was a mistake. However, Guzman's fly ball is unexcusable
2005-08-03 17:28:51
398.   Benaiah
We would be tied right now...
2005-08-03 17:29:46
399.   Telemachos
Time to sack it up and hit three more solo homers...
2005-08-03 17:30:30
400.   Jacob L
395 - Rob, I'm just saying that if any one team, the Dodgers for instance, goes absolutely nuts the rest of the way, and wins, say 6 out of every 10, that the other division "contenders" will do plenty enough losing to put that team over the top.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-08-03 17:30:43
401.   scareduck
7-5 Pirates
2005-08-03 17:31:41
402.   ROC
Did an player injury just make our team better?

"That sounded like it hit the bat, but it didn't...and that's not good" - ESPN announcers

BTW, I swear I'm a good person, but please DL Phillips ASAP. And what the heck, bring up Grabs.

2005-08-03 17:32:05
403.   Mark knows why Choi doesn't play. Isn't it obvious?
2005-08-03 17:33:17
404.   Steve
A contusion? That doesn't sound like it will buy us very many days. Blah.
2005-08-03 17:33:28
405.   micktissue
How prescient the comment about our lack of a back up catcher. Who was it in this thread who first brought that up? Well done.
2005-08-03 17:34:34
406.   scareduck
CHP's knocked out of the Pittsburgh game.
2005-08-03 17:34:37
407.   Mark
By the way, the "Pay Off Tony Armas to plunk Phillips" fund worked out beautifully.

We're still taking donations to the "Pay off John Patterson to LaLoosh it into the Dodgers dugout" fund to take care of JT.

2005-08-03 17:35:31
408.   Steve
Mark, would you make sure I get the memo?
2005-08-03 17:35:36
409.   Bob Timmermann
Just back from dinner here in Toronto. It's freakin' hot!

Sign that the SABR convention is in town: You see Bill James with his family walking around town.

Bill is about my height and, a bit wider around. A big bit.

2005-08-03 17:36:57
410.   Marty
Steiner thinks a fly ball that doesn't even get to the warning track is "giving it a good ride"
2005-08-03 17:38:33
411.   Benaiah
405 I don't like to toot my own horn but cough me cough.
2005-08-03 17:39:31
412.   Marty
409. But it's a wet heat Bob :)
2005-08-03 17:39:32
413.   dzzrtRatt
403 f-ing hilarious.

Choi also doesn't try to steal. And he homers when what we really need is guys on base. About the only thing Choi does well is avoid hitting triples.

2005-08-03 17:39:52
414.   King of the Hobos
He uses Ayala and it works. Now Tracy will do it with Carrara...
2005-08-03 17:40:00
415.   capdodger
In RFK, that is giving it a good ride.
2005-08-03 17:41:06
416.   Marty
Not when there's been 5 homeruns in 1 1/2 games :)
2005-08-03 17:41:23
417.   Bob Timmermann
There's a humidex alert here. Not sure how that differs from the heat index.

I saw the Expos French announcer today, but I didn't get a chance to talk to him. I loved it when the Dodgers would go to Montreal just because Vin loved all the French and he would get the French feed for us in L.A. for a while.

2005-08-03 17:41:33
418.   micktissue
And even with Phillips out Choi rides the pine. What are they going to do when Stanton or Eishen comes in?

I don't get it.

2005-08-03 17:41:57
419.   db1022
414 - what just happened? did robinson send a pitcher to hit for the pitcher?
2005-08-03 17:43:44
420.   King of the Hobos
418 It's a good bench, we still have Perez
2005-08-03 17:44:17
421.   King of the Hobos
419 Yep
2005-08-03 17:44:37
422.   Bob Timmermann
7-7 in Pittsburgh.
2005-08-03 17:44:42
423.   db1022
421 - any explanations? does he have a short bench?
2005-08-03 17:44:50
424.   Telemachos
419 Washington Nationals pitcher Tony Armas left the game due to an injured neck/shoulder.

According to MLB Gameday.

2005-08-03 17:45:21
425.   Mark
And playing the performance of Dave Hansen this evening, H.S. Choi...
2005-08-03 17:45:33
426.   micktissue
420 - Yeah, and Weaver ;-)
2005-08-03 17:45:59
427.   db1022
424 - ah, so ayala stays in but gets all the time he wants to warm up. that explains it.
2005-08-03 17:46:16
428.   Marty
Nice use of the Dodgers logo in the buntjimtracy url. The Dodgers may object.
2005-08-03 17:46:40
429.   King of the Hobos
423 Don't think so. As far as I know, Church. Cepickey, Carroll, Schneider, and Baerga are all available
2005-08-03 17:47:29
430.   Bob Timmermann
Nobody in Toronto recognized my Yhency Brazoban Ghame Over shirt.

I'm sad.

2005-08-03 17:48:08
431.   db1022
Adam Dunn is 2 for 3, with a homer, bases-loaded double, and 5 rbi's tonight against the braves.
2005-08-03 17:48:22
432.   Mark
428 That only looks like the Dodgers logo. If you zoom in really close, it says "Depodesta Blows" in a really tiny font.
2005-08-03 17:49:16
433.   Bob Timmermann
8-7 Padres now
2005-08-03 17:49:37
434.   bokonon42
Bob has just given me the most brilliant idea of all time. The Dodgers need a manager who only speaks French. He couldn't get to know the players, he couldn't snipe at the front office to the press, and all his interviews would have to be conducted with Vin! I defy any of you lot to show even one flaw in my thinking.
2005-08-03 17:52:26
435.   scareduck
Lowe will miss his turn tomorrow because of the wife/mistress identification problem.

2005-08-03 17:52:43
436.   King of the Hobos
434 He could get to know Gagne. Martin may know French as well
2005-08-03 17:56:14
437.   scareduck
Doesn't Colburn speak en peu Francais?
2005-08-03 17:57:55
438.   Marty
Is tomorrow a day game? Will Tracy have to break the "don't start the catcher in a day game after a night game" rule?
2005-08-03 17:58:09
439.   bokonon42
436 Yeah, but pretty much any Gagne related hunch is going to be a good one, so that wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker. What about a German coach, though?
2005-08-03 17:58:49
440.   Marty
435. Hughes has missed all her turns since it broke :)
2005-08-03 17:59:56
441.   capdodger
438 I believe tomorrow is a night game.
2005-08-03 18:01:16
442.   Bob Timmermann
Only day game on this road trip is Sunday at PNC.
2005-08-03 18:02:04
443.   King of the Hobos
This has been Houlton's best game in a long time. I'm willing to bet Choi comes up in the 7th, let's see how "clutch" he is
2005-08-03 18:02:05
444.   capdodger
C'mon you Bums. Get DJ some runs.
2005-08-03 18:02:15
445.   scareduck
8-7 Pads
2005-08-03 18:02:38
446.   Mark

"Lowe and Hughes are now rumored to be shopping for a home in Manhattan Beach, while Trinka and the children have moved back to Fort Myers, Florida."

Awesome! My guess is that they'll either get a place on the Strand, or a place in the tree section. Anyone care to design a banner to hang in front of their windows? I'm thinking "DEMAND A TRADE".

2005-08-03 18:06:02
447.   bigcpa
There's the initial out.
2005-08-03 18:06:07
448.   King of the Hobos
Why Perez? So we can use Edwards against Eischen/Stanton?
2005-08-03 18:06:38
449.   Bob Timmermann
445 see 433

Get with the program!

Isn't Lowe's problem still more with the blister on his thumb rather than anything having to do with his personal life?

2005-08-03 18:07:37
450.   Bob Timmermann
And it's 8-8 in Pittsburgh now.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-08-03 18:10:32
451.   bokonon42
Lowe's personal problems are sad. When the mistress sues him for palimony, then it'll be funny.
2005-08-03 18:11:53
452.   Bob Timmermann
Miguel Olivo is 3 for 3 tonight for the Padres with a home run.

That should about cover all his hits for the season.

The Washington announcers pronounced his name "ohl eh vo"

2005-08-03 18:12:57
453.   micktissue
uh oh, it's Gio the Human Gas Can!
2005-08-03 18:13:19
454.   scareduck
449 - word is Lowe's PUI (Pitching Under the Influence) again.
2005-08-03 18:14:16
455.   Bob Timmermann
You can't stop Cristian Guzman, you can only hope to contain him.
2005-08-03 18:14:39
456.   scareduck
449 - Bob, did I suggest it was? I think you meant 446 anyway.
2005-08-03 18:16:29
457.   Bob Timmermann
I was referring to 435, I think. I've sort of lost track.
2005-08-03 18:17:01
458.   alex 7
hope I'm wrong, but a run just seems inevitable here.
2005-08-03 18:17:04
459.   Bob Timmermann
Order has been restored in the universe. Miguel Olivo just went GIDP in Pittsburgh.
2005-08-03 18:18:30
460.   bigcpa
Al Downing explains that Wilkerson is not a prototypical leadoff hitter because his only way of getting on is swinging the bat... i.e. he doesn't lay down bunts. Oh and those 106 BB last year.
2005-08-03 18:18:34
461.   scareduck
Strike that: Lowe will make his next start:

2005-08-03 18:19:26
462.   jasonungar05
who is more suprised that guzman and his .188 avg got a hit of Gio? Guzman, Tracy or Carrara.

when Gio comes in, I immediatly throw on the gagne game over tee. it must be used for something.

2005-08-03 18:19:53
463.   Bob Timmermann
The Gameday Audio for the Dodgers feed wouldn't work.

After reading 460, I consider myself lucky.

2005-08-03 18:20:18
464.   bokonon42
There's never been a clutcher middle relief pitcher than Gio.
2005-08-03 18:20:52
465.   King of the Hobos
Tracy's getiing his LOOGY back. Joy
2005-08-03 18:21:06
466.   scareduck
461 - bad news: Erickson has accepted an assignment to Las Vegas.
2005-08-03 18:22:24
467.   bigcpa
"And for Giovanni Carrara, he gets out of it."

This Rick Monday grammar lesson has been brought to you by Jiffy Lube.

2005-08-03 18:23:17
468.   Telemachos
I haven't had a chance to watch Broxton pitch yet.

Hopefully, he can pitch the eighth.

2005-08-03 18:24:36
469.   Odysseus
please don't steal or bunt
2005-08-03 18:25:11
470.   bokonon42
465- I didn't know Alvarez was coming back. That's got to be one of the shortest retirements of all times.
2005-08-03 18:25:24
471.   Bob Timmermann
Leadoff man Sweeney singles to start off the 9th for the Padres. Jose Mesa in for Pittsburgh.
2005-08-03 18:25:44
472.   LAT
Just got home, haven't read the thread yet, but read the link at 461.

Does Aleverez remind anyone else of Levon Hernandez?

They say Lowe's regular start is Fri. wasn't it supposed to be tomorrow.

2005-08-03 18:25:57
473.   bigcpa
ohmygod kill me now
2005-08-03 18:25:58
474.   King of the Hobos
Why Tracy why? He hadn't made an out yet this game
2005-08-03 18:26:10
475.   Odysseus

No Lyons the bad thing about that was that Tracy called the bunt in the first place

2005-08-03 18:26:25
476.   bokonon42
This is the first time when Jon's no swearing rule really is cramping my style.
2005-08-03 18:26:42
477.   LAT
Those who forget not to bunt in the past are condemed to repeat it.
2005-08-03 18:27:23
478.   regfairfield
What's there left to say anymore?
2005-08-03 18:27:23
479.   bigcpa
Great tracy, squeak out a run here with your 3/4/5 and hope for extra frames.
2005-08-03 18:27:27
480.   alex 7
DEPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. It's on you to make this stop. Forget waiting for the off-season, we're losing games right now.

Actually, I think McCourt would not allow Tracy to be fired due to the PR hit. Depo could care less about PR in my opinion, but McCourt is a totally different matter.

2005-08-03 18:27:44
481.   Uncle Miltie
2005-08-03 18:28:00
482.   Paul B
2005-08-03 18:28:04
483.   regfairfield
Of course, now Tracy has an out. If we lose, it's because Bradley couldn't get the bunt down.
2005-08-03 18:28:23
484.   overkill94
If Tracy called that bunt then he should be fired immediately. Bradley's got 2 of our 4 hits and he's bunting? Ridiculous.
2005-08-03 18:28:37
485.   alex 7
Quick question: Did tracy think ahead 1 MOVE and realize Kent would be walked again? Or does he again want to take the bat out of his #3 and 4 hitters?
2005-08-03 18:29:19
486.   scareduck
I'd really like to see who else, besides DePodesta, is naked in those photos Tracy has. My guess is Jamie McCourt.
2005-08-03 18:30:26
487.   Landonkk
OMG.. 2-2, 2 solid hits, 1 a HR...
'gee, lets bunt him'

What is the quickest way to start a negative buzz on tracy?

A DT night at the ballpark where we all start a "FIRE JIM" chant..?

2005-08-03 18:30:42
488.   LAT
That amay have well been the game. Bottom of the line up in the 9th.

I have liked JT and have tried to defend him here. But that was completly indefensible.

2005-08-03 18:31:14
489.   scareduck
485 - good point.
2005-08-03 18:31:23
490.   Bob Timmermann
Mesa works out of trouble and it's 8-8 going to the bottom of the 9th in Pittsburgh.
2005-08-03 18:31:52
491.   Odysseus
485 if the bunt is successfully executed, the bat is out of the 3 and 4 hitters. Unsuccessful only the 3 hitter. If Milton swings away could be a DP (unlikely), could be a hit, or an out.

Either way, as I see it if Milton gets the bunt down, that is actually the worst possible outcome, because Kent would have been walked.

2005-08-03 18:32:59
492.   bokonon42
488 Choi's still on the bench. If he doesn't hit a homerun to tie it, he's the unclutchest bum in the history of the game.
2005-08-03 18:33:28
493.   scareduck
485 - perhaps it's a cry for help from Bradley, in the only way he knows how: bunting with a man on base. Give generously to the Society for Hit Intervention Training, so the scourge of bunting the number three hitter may be erased from the earth.
2005-08-03 18:33:33
494.   LAT
bunting consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
2005-08-03 18:33:37
495.   Odysseus
what I'm trying to say is that if Milton intentionally tried to pop out that bunt (unlikely) that would actually be a smart play. Better yet would be to say "screw you Tracy, I'm swinging away," but then he would probably permanently take a seat next to Choi (and Perez!) and the know-nothing media would likely support it
2005-08-03 18:34:54
496.   LAT
Nice swing on ball 4 there
2005-08-03 18:35:24
497.   jasonungar05
High water risin' - risin' night and day
All the gold and silver are being stolen away
Nothing standing there
High water everywhere

High water risin', the shacks are slidin' down
Folks lose their possessions - folks are leaving town
Bertha Mason shook it - broke it
Then she hung it on a wall
Says, "You're dancin' with whom they tell you to
Or you don't dance at all."
It's tough out there
High water everywhere

Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
"You can't open your mind, boys
To every conceivable point of view."
They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway Five
Judge says to the High Sheriff,
"I want him dead or alive
Either one, I don't care."
High Water everywhere


2005-08-03 18:35:42
498.   King of the Hobos
Why must we swing at ball 4? Saenz-Navarro-Repko(Ledee)-Choi against Cordero. That'll be fun
2005-08-03 18:35:50
499.   bigcpa
I posed the Bradley sac bunt sabotage theory on Sunday. He may have scripted that one.
2005-08-03 18:36:27
500.   Bob Timmermann
Leadoff walk for the Pirates in the 9th. Jason Bay up.

Let's see if he bunts.

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2005-08-03 18:37:14
501.   Telemachos
Unless someone gets on in the ninth, there's no chance in hell Hee Seop's pinch-hitting for Saenz, Navarro, or Repko.
2005-08-03 18:37:34
502.   Marty
A 2nd helping of Gio can't be good for us.
2005-08-03 18:38:15
503.   bigcpa
Cool- there's the initial out.
2005-08-03 18:38:18
504.   King of the Hobos
Izzy's CS looks like it will have a profound effect on this game.
2005-08-03 18:39:03
505.   regfairfield
Of course, Cordero wouldn't be coming in next inning if Izturis wouldn't have been caught stealing.
2005-08-03 18:39:28
506.   fanerman
If we lose because Izturis can't steal a base to save his life...
2005-08-03 18:39:49
507.   Odysseus
Is it just me, or does Tracy cost us a run every game? His VORM has got to be something like -150
2005-08-03 18:39:55
508.   regfairfield
Never mind. Is there anyone who didn't see that coming?
2005-08-03 18:40:07
509.   King of the Hobos
Tracy and Izzy have done a good job giving this one away
2005-08-03 18:40:16
510.   scareduck
502 - just proven right.
2005-08-03 18:40:45
511.   Benaiah
Wow Carrera is worthless. Nice job using him in the 8th with a one run lead Tracy. I thought we learned about this is St Louis.
2005-08-03 18:40:47
512.   Bob Timmermann
So the Nats won't break their streak of consecutive losses in 1-run games. They are at 11.

The record, such as it is, is 20.

2005-08-03 18:40:59
513.   micktissue
oh Gio ... If they lose, this is a Tracy loss all the way ...
2005-08-03 18:41:09
514.   Telemachos
Thanks Gio.
2005-08-03 18:41:22
515.   bokonon42
As I've said before, Gio is the chokingest choker who ever choked.
2005-08-03 18:41:32
516.   LAT
500 Bay swinging away--fly out to center
2005-08-03 18:41:37
517.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Bay didn't bunt. He flied out to center.
2005-08-03 18:41:45
518.   Uncle Miltie
Jimbo had Izzy bunt so it's Jimbo's fault. Jimbo brings in Geo in a run game for 2 INNINGS and he blows the game. Somebody start a petition to fire Jimbo. Jimbo is the worst manager in the majors.
2005-08-03 18:41:45
519.   Odysseus
Gio forget his gas can last inning. But he brought it for the eighth!
2005-08-03 18:42:05
520.   Adam
Why would you push your luck? One scoreless inning from Gio is a blessing...asking for two is just a slap in the face of the baseball gods...
2005-08-03 18:42:25
521.   King of the Hobos
Eric Young just caught a ball at the wall. The wall in left is so short, that might have easily been a homer if he had tripped. Pirates still have an out in the 9th
2005-08-03 18:42:48
522.   LAT
Eric Young makes great warning track catch against the wall to keep effing Pods in the game
2005-08-03 18:43:02
523.   ddger
If Tracy says the reason why Phillips is starting is because of his RISP average, then how do you explain A. Perez not starting when he is batting .371 with RISP.

Tracy is contradicting himself by using certain sample sizes and statistics to justify his illogical decisions.

I wonder if he realizes how silly his answers are.

2005-08-03 18:43:22
524.   King of the Hobos
Pirates win on a Eldred gapper
2005-08-03 18:43:55
525.   micktissue
Downing: "We have to be real careful with this guy."


2005-08-03 18:44:05
526.   scareduck
Brad Eldred bangs a double for the game in the 9th. Pirates 9, Padres 8
2005-08-03 18:44:09
527.   LAT
Pirates walk off double in the 9th
2005-08-03 18:44:17
528.   King of the Hobos
If it's any consolation, we'll stay 4 games behind at worst
2005-08-03 18:44:39
529.   Bob Timmermann
Eldred went 4 for 4 with 3 doubles and a HBP and drove in 3 runs.

I think he'll be the guest on the postgame show in Pittsburgh.

2005-08-03 18:45:36
530.   alex 7
I'm usually not into this type of thing, but if there's something I can sign, or money I can send somewhere, or deed I can do that will help get rid of Tracy, I'm in. =P

g'night all.

I'll dream of a Navarro walk and a Choi PH HR.
At the very minimum, I hope more Hensons question Tracy tonight.

2005-08-03 18:46:58
531.   King of the Hobos
C'mon Saenz, work the walk. Same to you Navarro
2005-08-03 18:48:44
532.   King of the Hobos
I guess Edwards is our emergency catcher
2005-08-03 18:49:21
533.   King of the Hobos
Dang that was close. One more foot
2005-08-03 18:49:23
534.   regfairfield
2005-08-03 18:49:58
535.   Marty
Phew. That nearly killed the rally
2005-08-03 18:50:17
536.   coachjpark
Ledee walks. Choi hits game-tying homerun. Choi remains key lefty off of bench.
2005-08-03 18:50:19
537.   scareduck
532 - I expect a callup of Mike Rose.
2005-08-03 18:51:38
538.   Odysseus
2005-08-03 18:51:43
539.   coachjpark
HEE SEOP CHOI~~~~ come on
2005-08-03 18:51:43
540.   bigcpa
Al Downing recommends that Ledee follow in the footsteps of Lenny Harris.
2005-08-03 18:52:02
541.   scareduck
536 - Here comes Choi. I predict a bouncer to short.
2005-08-03 18:52:03
542.   coachjpark
2005-08-03 18:52:26
543.   coachjpark
2 run bomb! come on!


2005-08-03 18:52:31
544.   regfairfield
I don't want Choi to be aggressive, but there is no way in hell Izturis and Robles will win the game.

I'm torn.

2005-08-03 18:52:40
545.   bokonon42
That was a ball.
2005-08-03 18:52:52
546.   regfairfield
Two strikes off the plate.
2005-08-03 18:52:52
547.   LAT
This is so unfair to Choi
2005-08-03 18:52:59
548.   coachjpark
Jim Tracy nun michin seki! Jashik! Babo! Mung chung!
2005-08-03 18:53:25
549.   scareduck
2005-08-03 18:53:27
550.   Odysseus
I have no doubt that no matter what happens, Choi will stay on the bench. If he gets a hit, then he's succeeding in his role as a PH. If he doesn't, then he proves that he can't succeed as a full time player

I hate you Jim Tracy

Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2005-08-03 18:53:34
551.   King of the Hobos
What a finish...dang. Check swing of all things
2005-08-03 18:53:41
552.   bokonon42
Hee Seop Choi: the unclutchest bum in the history of the game.
2005-08-03 18:53:56
553.   Landonkk
Tracy's bonehead moves, Izzy the slowest leadoff hitter in the NL, Gio giving a run away...

and all we'll hear about is Hee Seop couldn't come through.

2005-08-03 18:54:25
554.   jpeace
This game has been mismanaged to death.

Has anyone been keeping track of the success rate of Jimbo-ball the past few weeks? From what i've seen it doesn't seem to be successful at all. Bradley should've had a 2 run homer.

When is Depo going to wake JT up from this nonsense to realize that Izturis is not the leadoff hitter of his dreams.

2005-08-03 18:54:26
555.   capdodger
Depo needs to hold an intervention for Jimbo. I'd love to see a transcript for that.
2005-08-03 18:54:58
556.   LAT
I meant it was unfair to put Choi in that position after not playing him. In the end, that 3 called strike was unfair, as well
2005-08-03 18:55:07
557.   Marty
548. I'm guessing there's a profanity in there somewhere.
2005-08-03 18:55:15
558.   Uncle Miltie
CB Bucknor screws Choi of an AB.
2005-08-03 18:57:38
559.   King of the Hobos
Jackson 6 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 2 K, WP, HBP

2 of the walks and the HBP came in the first inning, so he settled fairly nicely. Both runs (and hits) came in the second

2005-08-03 18:58:16
560.   ddger
548 Tracy is "stupid crazy fool"
2005-08-03 18:59:06
561.   Adam
554 - What do you mean, keeping track of success rate? We're way under .500, and we're 4 games out of first in the most pathetic division ever. What more do you need? This team is bad, but not this bad.
2005-08-03 18:59:31
562.   oldbear
Dodgers are going to have a tough time winning if AP/Choi continue to ride the pine, and the hitters we do have in there are asked to bunt...

Jim Tracy easily the worst manager in the game. I'm shocked he hasnt been reprimanded by our GM.

Only positive from tonite's game is if Jason Phillips is done for a month or 2.

2005-08-03 18:59:52
563.   micktissue
523 and others - Mind if I collect this thread and send it to the sports editor of the LA Times? I think he needs to see it.
2005-08-03 19:00:09
564.   capdodger
When is Tracy going to stop bunting with the #3 hitter and tell Izzy to stay the fudge on first?

None of this will be covered by the MSM, though.

2005-08-03 19:00:40
565.   Bob Timmermann
Was there more news about Phillips injury? Did he suffer a broken wrist or was it just a bruise?
2005-08-03 19:00:55
566.   ddger
If Tracy is old school, aren't you supposed to try to win on the road and bunt to tie at home.

His inconsistent contradicting logic is driving me crazy this year.

2005-08-03 19:01:24
567.   LAT
Kevin Kennedy on SCSR says bunt was MB's call and JT absolutly did not call that bunt.

Not sure how he knows that.

2005-08-03 19:02:27
568.   jpeace
MSM headline: "Unclutch Choi thwarts 9th inning rally (Tracy still a baseball genius)"
2005-08-03 19:02:41
569.   ddger
If Tracy is old school, aren't you supposed to try to win on the road and bunt to tie at home.

His inconsistent contradicting logic is driving me crazy this year.

2005-08-03 19:03:50
570.   regfairfield
567 - The missed execution of the bunt was key.
2005-08-03 19:04:26
571.   King of the Hobos
567 This wouldn't completely surprise me, Bradley may have been trying to fool the fielders. He's done it before, and needs to be told not to do in close situations with men on
2005-08-03 19:04:26
572.   ddger
567 We now have players trying to defend Tracy.
2005-08-03 19:05:25
573.   micktissue
A Martinez post-game interview with Bradley - please ask him abou that bunt!
2005-08-03 19:05:29
574.   ddger
From now on no one bunts forever!!!!!!!!!

Maybe Repko and Izzy once in a while.

2005-08-03 19:06:50
575.   capdodger
562 - A month or two? Was it that bad of a bruise? Could someone enlighten those of us who are watching on gameday (because or Peter Angelos's foobard influenced on Nats TV coverage).
2005-08-03 19:07:14
576.   micktissue
Sorry it's with Hoffy not Bradley (I hope he still asks the question)
2005-08-03 19:08:12
577.   jpeace
[574] Please minimize the base-stealing also. Maybe Repko once in a while.
2005-08-03 19:08:13
578.   ddger
563 You have my permission for sure.
2005-08-03 19:10:06
579.   coachjpark
Tomorrow a lefty is starting.... using JT's logic, Choi will start the game, go 0-4 and then not get another start for 4 games.

BTW, I miss Ross Porter right about now... he would say... "Hee Seop Choi's batting .344 against righties on grass with runners in scoring positioin and he's sitting the bench.... uhhh huhhhh...."

A Martinez is somewhat tolerable, but he's not a true "baseball" guy. I called after a game at Dodger Stadium once and wondered why Tracy pinch-hit with Chen Chin-feng in the 8th inning and not Olmedo Saenz with the Dodgers down by one and A made the claim that you had to save Saenz for the 9th inning in a clutch situation... earth to A: you're not supposed to bat in the 9th inning if you're the home team.... maybe that's the kind of logic that JT is using....

2005-08-03 19:10:59
580.   ddger
Why did Tracy use Carrara for 2 innings? He should have realized that he got lucky for 1 inning and not press his luck. Are all our relievers that tired or did Tracy just give up on this game.
2005-08-03 19:11:16
581.   oldbear
575- I'm just HOPING Phillips is done for the year. Judging by the Blue's luck, he'll be in the lineup tomorrow.
2005-08-03 19:12:21
582.   coachjpark
Dodger Talk
2005-08-03 19:14:22
583.   coachjpark
Again, if Phillips is done for the year, that just means a platoon of Saenz and Kent at first base, which is certainly an improvement, but Choi will still ride the pine....
2005-08-03 19:18:50
584.   capdodger
583 - But that will get Perez into the lineup on Kent's days at first, right? Right? Or would that mean Ledee and Scrappy in the same outfield with Val at third and Robles at second. I think that's what JfT would do.
2005-08-03 19:26:22
585.   coachjpark
I suppose that's better than Phillips at first, but what's wrong with:


That's a pretty decent infield, don't you think?

2005-08-03 19:29:07
586.   ddger
Tracy postgame interview:

" Isturis decided to run on his own.

Bradley decided to bunt on his own.

Carrara wanted to pitch extra inning.

I know nothing else.

Also, tonight is the type of game where IF we had a big bat (Depo?) we could have scored more and IF we had reliever we could have held them in check.

But we're still only 4 back with 2 months left."

Tracy has answers for everything and
I guess the players are now running the show.

2005-08-03 19:29:48
587.   King of the Hobos
Kuo pitched an inning but no Ks today. Beltran Perez continues to do very well in Jacksonville as well.
2005-08-03 19:30:02
588.   capdodger
585 Sure is. But the only place you'll find an infield like that is on an XBox so long as JfT is in charge.
2005-08-03 19:30:30
589.   Uncle Miltie
Why would we want Robles' bad bat and average defense at SS when we can get good defense from Izturis with an equally bad bat. Defense is important, just ask Billy Beane.
2005-08-03 19:31:23
590.   regfairfield
589 - Becuase Robles isn't that much worse than Izturis and can actually take a pitch.
2005-08-03 19:32:42
591.   jasonungar05
line of the night:

Charlie to Psycho..who was the number 1 draft choice from CSFullerton besides Cordero to be taken by Montreal.

Psycho: Jim Tracy?
Charlie: Nope.
Psycho: yeah that was a terrible guess, not even close
Charlie: No your close, he is sitting right next to him

(waiting for psycho to say, Jim Colburn, but he didn't)

Psycho: Oh yeah, Tim Wallach

Worst line of the night:

Charlie: (in talking about Navarro)

There is a new sherrif in town....behind the plate

I had malone flashbacks thinking, it can be worse.

2005-08-03 19:34:06
592.   regfairfield
Also, tonight is the type of game where IF we had a big bat (Depo?) we could have scored more and IF we had reliever we could have held them in check.

Did Tracy actually say this?

2005-08-03 19:34:41
593.   micktissue
591 - Who is psycho? (no TV here in Petaluma)
2005-08-03 19:35:00
594.   Uncle Miltie
1 Perez 3B
2 Choi 1B
3 Bradley CF
4 Kent 2B
5 Ledee LF
6 Navarro C
7 Izturis SS
8 Repko RF
1 Perez 3B
2 Choi 1B
3 Bradley CF
4 Kent 2B
5 Ledee RF
6 Valentin LF
7 Navarro C
8 Izturis SS
2005-08-03 19:35:08
595.   coachjpark
That's why you start Izturis but strategically platoon Robles and pinch-hit Izturis in key situations...
2005-08-03 19:35:18
596.   regfairfield
Steve Lyons
2005-08-03 19:35:30
597.   capdodger
586 - Which begs the question:

Jim Tracy is in charge, right? If someone under him does something and he doesn't reprimand it, is he accepting and condoning it? If he doesn't tell Bradley to swing away or Izturis to not steal, is that as bad as Tracy telling players to make those same plays?

2005-08-03 19:35:32
598.   King of the Hobos
Russ Mitchell has hit his 12th homer, good for a tie for tops in the Pioneer league. He's old for the league, but's he's just now rediscovering his swing, so he should move up quickly. Right now he's probably our 4th best 3b prospect, behind Laroche, Dewitt, and Bell
2005-08-03 19:36:19
599.   oldbear
586. Tracy has no right to complain about missing a 'big bat', when he keeps the good bats he has on the bench, and decides to take the opportunities away from his other good hitters by sacrificing...

If Tracy really said that, he should be gone ASAP.

If DePo had gotten Dunn, Tracy would platoon him or something since Dunn cant hit with RISP either...

I've had enough with Buntermaker. I'm just shocked DePo hasnt.

2005-08-03 19:37:11
600.   micktissue
596 - Thanks, and it figures ...
Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2005-08-03 19:37:38
601.   King of the Hobos
Astros have the bases loaded, no outs in the top of the 2nd
2005-08-03 19:37:59
602.   King of the Hobos
Russ Mitchell has hit his 12th homer, good for a tie for tops in the Pioneer league. He's old for the league, but's he's just now rediscovering his swing, so he should move up quickly. Right now he's probably our 4th best 3b prospect, behind Laroche, Dewitt, and Bell
2005-08-03 19:38:35
603.   King of the Hobos
602 Sorry about that, possibly the most bizarre double post ever
2005-08-03 19:40:02
604.   coachjpark
A Martinez is defending Tracy's bunting with Bradley on Sunday.

He's a moron.

2005-08-03 19:44:58
605.   ddger
592 No, but I'm sure that's what he would like to say.
2005-08-03 19:45:57
606.   coachjpark
The Choi question!!! on Dodger Talk...
2005-08-03 19:47:39
607.   regfairfield
Oooh, ooh, what's the answer?
2005-08-03 19:47:44
608.   King of the Hobos
Colorado 2-1 over the Gnats
Astros 1-0 over the Dbacks

If Colorado is the only NL West team to win, then our loss will be a lot easier to handle

2005-08-03 19:50:52
609.   coachjpark
A said, "They might have to start thinking about giving him a start here and there despite his inconsistencies in order to get some power in the lineup."
2005-08-03 19:51:49
610.   regfairfield
609 It's better than nothing, I guess.
2005-08-03 19:52:20
611.   ddger
If Tracy can't manage anymore this season, who would take over? Hoffman? Lett? Monday?

There has to be a better option.

2005-08-03 19:56:20
612.   coachjpark
Anyone on Dodger Thoughts would be a better option, but maybe that's a consideration that DePodesta is making before making any public comments about his dislike of Tracy....
2005-08-03 19:56:48
613.   db1022
Did you guys see that Alvarez is coming back after all? Apparently that whole "retirement" thing was just a tease?

And after all the nice things we said about him last night...

2005-08-03 19:57:52
614.   coachjpark
How bout a Jon Weisman for Dodgers manager campaign? Seriously... he'd do a far superior job than Tracy, and I don't even know the guy all that well.
2005-08-03 19:59:11
615.   ddger
613 His family threatened him if he quit and gave up 2M.
2005-08-03 19:59:52
616.   ddger
614 Then who would run this site.
2005-08-03 20:10:29
617.   RMAPasad
The team is playing the best that it can, and San Diego is doing the best it can to let us into this race. But something, or more appropriately someone, is preventing that from happening.
The Dodgers have a stone in their shoe, and we've all watched enough movies to know what usually happens when the bosses have stones in their shoes.
Except this stone isn't going away and probably won't be anytime soon. The bosses are probably worried about all the bad publicity that might come if they pull off a hit right now. It's not that the guy doesn't deserve it - he's screwing
up left and right, doesn't know what the hell he's doing, is completely out of control. But the guy has friends in the media and it's going to look really bad.

So the stone will remain, crippling the climb up what really is a small hill, but with a bum foot likely becomes an insurmountable mountain. For example, take tonight's fiasco.

A third grader picking names out of a hat at random could have assembled a more intelligent lineup. The 5 worst non-injured players were starting while 3 of the top 5 available hitters were on the bench. Worse still, the opposing RHed pitcher had a 836 OPS v. LHed hitters, 708 v. RHers, and 2 of the 3 guys sitting on the bench bat LHed (Choi, Ledee) and were sat out for RHers (Repko, Phillips).

Then you have your # 3 hitter, who is 2-3 with a HR, try to bunt, yes BUNT a runner over in the 8th, trailing by 1 run. Then you haul out an overworked reliever with a 4.72 ERA for a second inning of work when his BAA after throwing 15 pitches (or 1 inning) balloons to .350, and he promptly gives the opponents and insurance HR.

This team is going nowhere with a stone in its shoe.

2005-08-03 20:11:11
618.   coachjpark
616 Jim Tracy

Is that a good trade-off? Well managed Dodger games yet incoherent posts on this site?

2005-08-03 20:15:30
619.   Xeifrank
as fate would have it, I didn't watch the game tonight but did turn it on long enough just to see one at bat. Yep 8th inning nobody out and Bradley up. haha! FJT, Xei
2005-08-03 20:16:05
620.   ddger
617 very good post. stone feels more like boulder these days.
2005-08-03 20:17:37
621.   ddger
Since Tracy was so supportive of Milton last year after what he went through, I think Milton wanted to prove that the bunt works so that he can support Tracy.
2005-08-03 20:27:12
622.   Steve
488 -- Nothing like a convert
2005-08-03 20:33:19
623.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I try to think of it this way. Even if Trace doesn't pull all those bonehead moves and we catch the Snakes and Padres, all that gives us is a rather pointless playoff berth. If Drew comes back strong, maybe we have a chance, but our pitching, especially the bullpen minus Gagne, is just too inconsistent to hope to catch lightning in a bottle for a meaningful playoff run.

Furthermore, there may be the perverse side-benefit that in not playing Choi, his salary in arbitration, even if he isn't eligible until 2007 (I can't remember right now the exact timing), will be artificially lowered. I wouldn't put it past DePo to have thought of this factor. It's certainly unfair to Hee Seop, but from the organization's standpoint, that may be a useful thing.

Cutting Tracy loose now would also cause a medioa firestorm. If we wait until the winter, it may be easier to buy out his contract, or better yet, Trace may leave of his own accord and become the Reds manager.

I wonder if DePo has basically decided that since this season is already a loss, there's no point in incurring the PR damage from firing Tracy mid-season, and he'll just let Tracy sink or swim on his own. If DePo has enough confidence that Choi will be a quality starting 1B, and that we didn't really need this season to find that out, then this perspective might actually make some sense, no matter how painful it makes the games to watch.


2005-08-03 20:38:25
624.   Louis in SF
If I had a nickle for every post which critiscizes Tracy I would be rich by now. But rather than lamenting the economics of my plight. I have a simple question. It is clear that the Dodgers lack power and clear based on John's stats that the difference between Choi and Phillips is not great, but certainily as a project Choi is the more valuable commodity. If all great baseball minds agree why doesn't Dep just say I want Choi to get some regular starts. If you want to play Phillips against the lefty's fine. But whatever you do, if Choi is Depo's man than he needs to force Tracy to play Choi on some sort of regular basis.

So if Tracy isn't playing him than perhaps DePo doesn;t really mind.

2005-08-03 20:39:37
625.   Bob Timmermann
Miguel Olivo's homer for the Padres today ended a streak of 320 ABs without a homer for the Padres. Prior to Olivo's homer, the last Padre to homer isn't even a Padre anymore, Geoff Blum.
2005-08-03 20:45:45
626.   King of the Hobos
608 An hour later, the same scores. Dbacks are in the bottom of the 5th, Giants going to the top of the 7th
2005-08-03 20:49:33
627.   Bob Timmermann
If the DBacks win, they will go back ahead of the Padres at .4862. San Diego is at .4859
2005-08-03 20:54:24
628.   oldbear
Pondering how Jim Tracy's job assessment will go at the end of the season...

A. Playing Phillips ahead of Choi, Saenz, Kent.
B. Batting Izturis leadoff.
C. Playing Robles ahead of Antonio Perez
D. Sac bunting with Choi, Drew, and Bradley.
E. Pitching Gio Carrara in close games.
F. Leaving Jeff Weaver in for too long.
G. Batting Repko #2.

Does anyone think DePo keeps a list, or has he already phoned in this year?

2005-08-03 20:58:44
629.   King of the Hobos
Ensberg homered, 2-0 Astros. Astros have a man on second, 1 out
2005-08-03 20:59:05
630.   bokonon42
624- It is not at all clear to me that the difference between Phillips's and Choi's numbers is any less than great. .139 OPS points is a lot. Phillips is not good. He's passable as a catcher because most catchers aren't good. Choi's numbers are good not great. Saenz's numbers are better than those of either, which is why I, and almost every other Choi booster, came to accept his starting over Choi even against RH pitchers. There is no good reason for Phillips's starting at first, even if DePo thinks there is, which I can't believe he does.
2005-08-03 21:03:43
631.   oldbear
The master plan is to have Ledee, Saenz, Choi, Perez, and Drew well rested for September, when the Dodgers go 24-5 to win the NL West.

I read a funny Choi quote in the paper. He said something like, "i not play much in September. At least I well rested. I dont get as tired"...

Maybe its good that Choi isnt playing in the hot humid weather of DC. We cant have him running out of gas :)

2005-08-03 21:03:51
632.   King of the Hobos
Tucker tripled, and Alfonso singled him to tie that game 2-2
2005-08-03 21:05:27
633.   bokonon42
The OPS difference between Choi and Phillips, as it happens, is greater than the one between Choi and Kent. Choi is more better than Phillips than Kent is better than Hee, in other words.
2005-08-03 21:05:58
634.   Bob Timmermann
The wire service story on the game says that Bradley took the rap for the bunt:

Bradley, who also singled and walked, made a key mental error during the eighth inning, when he batted with no outs after Oscar Robles had reached on a single. Bradley attempted to bunt against Stanton, but he popped the ball up, and catcher Gary Bennett caught it in foul territory. Majewski entered the game and retired both hitters he faced to end the Dodgers' rally.

``I just overanalyzed the situation,'' Bradley said. ``I thought I'd try to be a smart guy and try and trick them and lay a bunt down, move the runner up, possibly get a hit. But the last thing I expected to do was pop up,"

2005-08-03 21:08:43
635.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 634

This is believable. Milton does like to pull the surprise bunt. I don't think it's ever actually worked. Does anyone remember any of them actually working? Sigh....


2005-08-03 21:10:22
636.   bokonon42
The closest second baseman to being 139 OPS points south of Kent is Tadahito Iguchi. Playing Phillips over Choi is like if DePo had traded Kent for Iguchi, straight up.
2005-08-03 21:12:54
637.   patsweetpat
"If all great baseball minds agree why doesn't Dep just say I want Choi to get some regular starts. If you want to play Phillips against the lefty's fine. But whatever you do, if Choi is Depo's man than he needs to force Tracy to play Choi on some sort of regular basis."

I have a theory on this, and it's based on no info whatsoever, and it's coming right out of my butt, but here goes:

I read a quote of Tracy's once, stating that DePo has never interceded in Tracy's on-field choices, and that Tracy admires DePo for that. If it's indeed true that DePo has been so very hands-off, the question is: why? Perhaps it's this: DePo's never worn a big-league uniform. Tracy knows that fact. DePo knows that Tracy knows that fact. And if DePo were to start fiddling with Tracy's line-up card, DePo knows that Tracy will start reminding the players of that fact, in subtle ways (an eye-roll here, a "Harvard" comment there, the occaisional quip about laptops thrown in for flavor). From that point on, every on-field snafu becomes the Harvard egghead's on-field snafu, with Tracy an innocent puppet, being yanked by whichever strings the ivy league dilletente's computer says to pull.

Like I said, it's just a guess. But I really think DePo's lack of on-field experience has him stuck in a bit of an intrapersonal/political bind, leaving him with only a few imperfect options, here. And the option he appears to have chosen: keep his hands well-clear of the on-field operation, allowing the team to rise or fall based on whether Tracy rises or falls.

Sadly for us, Tracy's not rising.

2005-08-03 21:13:10
638.   King of the Hobos
Arizona is imploding, 5-0 Astros. jackson just threw on away for 2 runs. This team is not very pretty defensively. Not as bad as last year, but easily worse than the Dodgers

Kim got Yamid Haad to finish the inning. You thought our catchers were bad last year? Look at the Giants, they have the super impressive tandem of Yamid Haad and Justin Knoedler. Between them, they are 0-8 in the majors. Matheny is on the bereavement list

2005-08-03 21:18:52
639.   Uncle Miltie
635- yes, I have seen him bunt many times for a hit batting left handed. Tracy probably told Bradley to cover his rear if he wanted to play tomorrow.
2005-08-03 21:20:42
640.   LAT
D'Back announcers (espicially Grace) singing the praises of Steven Drew. First game in AA last night in 5 plate apperences, 3 hits, 2BB and SB. They say he will be in the bigs faster than people expected. Nothing like making him the next Gonzo after one game.
2005-08-03 21:21:08
641.   Ben P
Just got back from the game. A few quick notes:

1) I've known this for all eight years I've lived here, but tonight was a reminder: The humidity in DC is stifling. I was so sweaty just sitting in my seat that I can't imagine actually running or pitching a major league game in these conditions.

2) Absolutely no one seemed to care that I was wearing an LA hat, aside from a couple of fellow Dodger fans who approved.

3) If Wilkerson, Guzman and Vidro were performing roughly as well as they did last year the Nats' offense would be servicable and they would still be in first place.

4) The Choi thing remains baffling. I had just finished a long explanation of the Choi-Phillips situation to my friend (an O's fan) when Choi came up and struck out on three pitches. He can't win, and he'll never improve as a hitter under these conditions.

2005-08-03 21:21:41
642.   Bob Timmermann
I think you have take Bradley's statement at face value. I would really doubt that he would tell an outright lie like that.
2005-08-03 21:23:38
643.   bokonon42
In order to lose ~139 OPS points in CF, DePo would have to trade Bradley for Nook Logan.
2005-08-03 21:25:04
644.   bokonon42
Am I harping?
2005-08-03 21:26:41
645.   coachbean
Was tracy at his all-time worst tonight? A grand total of FOUR boneheaded moves that no Dodger Thoughts reader would have made.

1) Starting Phillips at 1st (this one really blew up tonight)
2)Sending Cesar (ditto on the blow up)
3) Milton Bunting (because it worked out so well last time)
4) Sending Gio out for a 2nd innng.

You can disagree with other minor moves Tracy made but these 4 are indisputably bad. Don't make any 2 of those 4 and the Dodgers possibly a win. 3 of 4 and its probably a win, 4 of 4 well...

Also, I had a friend who was at the came who said he saw Milton point (in a negative manner) toward the dugout, possibly at Tracy, after the failed bunt attempt. Can anyone who was there confirm or deny this?

Last I was wondering if Billy Beane calls up DePo after games like this and just starts laughing... I know that Beane and DePo are still friends, but there has to be some "I told you so" on Beane's part.

2005-08-03 21:33:27
646.   Steve
Contusion has become one of my least favorite words
2005-08-03 21:35:58
647.   dzzrtRatt
re:645 Yeah, Beane and DePo probably have a whole Art Howe/Jim Tracy "separated at birth" thing going.
2005-08-03 21:38:08
648.   bokonon42
Just one more, because it is irresistable. To start a catcher ~139 OPS points worse than Phillips, the closest match in the MLB this year (with his 38 ABs; nobody with 200+ is nearly bad enough) is: Mike Rose. Starting Phillips over Choi is at least as stupid as starting Rose over Phillips would have been.
2005-08-03 21:39:06
649.   King of the Hobos
640 Last night he was very good. Now ask him how he likes Edwin Jacson and the good part of the bullpen (Yesterday was the cleanup crew after Hanrahan let it get away). 0-4 with a K

Closser singled in a run against Walker, still not out of the inning. 3-2 Rockies

Dbacks still down 5-0

2005-08-03 21:41:00
650.   bokonon42
Beltre has now hit as many HRs this year as Choi has.
Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2005-08-03 21:42:40
651.   Steve
648 -- Excellent.

Beltre hit another homerun! Here comes the inevitable surge that makes everyone think he'll be worth $13 year. Yeah, that's the ticket.

2005-08-03 21:42:50
652.   dzzrtRatt
637 Seems to me there are many GMs who never played ball for that theory to be valid. DePo actually was a college player, and the Dodgers are the third team he's worked for, so it's not like he's a newbie. I'm sure "Harvard" is a bit of a liability, but it can also be an intimidation factor. Did Dan Evans play in the bigs or even the minors? Al Campanis? Kevin Malone? I know Claire didn't play anywhere. Did Brian Sabean play ball, or Brian Cashman? John Schuerholz? Sandy Alderson? Theo Epstein? I sincerely don't know, but my guess for all of them is nope.
2005-08-03 21:44:24
653.   dzzrtRatt
652 should've started,

Seems there are too many GMs who...

2005-08-03 21:44:59
654.   coachbean
[647] I didn't follow the A's during the Howe days, but he could not have been as bad as Tracy... there is no way... I think Beane laughs at DePo like and older brother does when he sees his youger brother trip and fall... you feel bad but its still funny. Also Beane is probably constantly telling DePo to take charge and do something, while DePo is probably making excuses, going over what he has done, how tracy doesn't listen, and how Frank won't let him do anything... meanwhile Beane is haking his head chuckling.
2005-08-03 21:45:19
655.   Jon Weisman
Thanks to everyone for keeping their relative cool during a frustrating game.

I'm now digesting a 1st birthday dinner meal of Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles and reading the comments. Just read 467 - LOL. Then I read it again - LOL again.

2005-08-03 21:47:06
656.   King of the Hobos
San Francisco lost. Arizona still has 2 innings, but they're against Wheeler and Lidge and they're down by 5. Houston is threatening in the 8th right now
2005-08-03 21:50:34
657.   coachjpark
OPS of .806 against righties
OPS of .825 against lefties

Anyone know who I'm referring to?

2005-08-03 21:54:44
658.   coachbean
[657] Choi of course
2005-08-03 21:57:15
659.   bokonon42
658- Then I can dig it.
2005-08-03 21:59:11
660.   oldbear
While the OPS difference between Phillips and Choi is hard to justify, its even worse with:

Izturis and Antonio Perez.

There's almost a 200 point gap in OPS there. And in reality, its Izturis playing instead of AP.

Robles should be at SS with AP at 3rd.

Phillips/Izturis in the lineup is costing us about .360 points of OPS per nite. Staggering.

2005-08-03 21:59:25
661.   Jon Weisman
Steve Henson's game story is up. Phillips will not play tomorrow. Mike Edwards is the backup catcher.
2005-08-03 22:00:47
662.   Steve
They say this cat Choi is a bad mother
I'm talkin' 'bout Choi.
2005-08-03 22:02:47
663.   King of the Hobos
I'm going to guess Edwards gets the start because Saenz is too fragile, Choi apparently is our PH, and who knows about AP/Kent. Plus Tracy likes using backup catchers as 1Bs. I wouldn't be surprised to see Weaver get the start over Choi because "Choi's bat is too valuable to the bench"
2005-08-03 22:03:30
664.   Steve
I'm stunned that Jim Tracy took no responsibility for that bunt. Really, I'm just dazed by that.

Haven't we been here before? How many times do we have to keep hearing this nonsense?

2005-08-03 22:03:58
665.   LAT
639 Tracy probably told Bradley to cover his rear if he wanted to play tomorrow.

Its one thing to ascribe incompetence to Tracy. I can accept that. However, to suggest JT would blackmail his center fielder with playing time if Bradley didn't lie and tell the media he bunted on his own is going too far, at least for me.

While I disagree with many of his moves, I fully believe Tracy wants to win as much as anyone and believes his decisions are in the best interest of the team. He is not sabotaging games in a effort to disprove moneyball. What's more, many of his moves are not that unconventional. The problem is he comes from the old school of baseball and manages accordingly. Many here embrace a new philosophy and assume Depo adopts the same exclusively, that makes it all the more difficult when that old school philosophy keeps us from our best chance to win. I share this frustration, but I refuse to believe Tracy would jeopardize his personal and professional integrity to make Depo look bad or prove Depo's trades wrong. In sum, everyone who has ever dealt with JT (with the possible exceptions of Grudz and Karros) say he is a stand up guy. He has his faults but, his character is not one of them.

2005-08-03 22:06:56
666.   LAT
but maybe that's a consideration that DePodesta is making before making any public comments about his dislike of Tracy....

How do you know Depo dislikes Tracy? Was there something in the news I missed.

2005-08-03 22:13:31
667.   Steve
The problem is he comes from the old school of baseball and manages accordingly.

I have brought this up before, but having Bradley bunt with two on and no out is NOT old school baseball. Again, Joe Morgan, the anti-Moneyball guru of all time, I have heard time and time say again when set up by Jon Miller "I don't think [#3 or #4 hitter] should bunt because you pay that hitter to drive in runs." Ryne Sandberg, who just went on and on in his HoF speech about bunting, had something like 30 in 15 years.

I think you are taking Post #639 too literally. There is a frustration with the nonsense that is going on and people just want it to stop. But it's not "old school." It is part of an anti-Moneyball backlash which has taken bunting to ridiculous extremes in order to show that "bunting works." It is, in itself, "new," not old.

In the interest of full disclosure, I think he is tubing Choi because of the trade, and have thought so since last year, when Grabowski hit .025 in September while Choi sat on the bench. I do not think that Tracy is blackmailing Bradley. I do believe that Tracy has created a mentality in the clubhouse that is commensurate with Tracy's essentially ideological belief in the bunt.

2005-08-03 22:13:40
668.   bokonon42
I agree with LAT whole heartedly. I don't think Tracy is throwing games. I just think he's bad at his job. Lots of people are bad at their jobs. I've been bad at lots of jobs. I was only intentionally bad at a couple of them. . .
2005-08-03 22:16:38
669.   bokonon42
I should say: I agree with THE BEAST whole heartedly.
2005-08-03 22:23:21
670.   King of the Hobos
Dbacks officially lost 7-0. Only Colorado gained a game on anyone today
2005-08-03 22:25:00
671.   LAT
Steve, I just cannot ascribe malace to JT's decisions, lame as they may be. I have no doubt he was pissed about losing LoDuca--heck, he still wears #16. But I don't think he holds Choi out to prove that point. I'm guessing he, like Torre and LaRussa, have his 5 or 6 guys, and Choi is not one of them. If Frank or Depo thought JT was tubing Choi I would expect them to step in but for some unexplained reason they have not. I can only conclude that they do not strongly disagree with JT's lineups.

I know #639 wasn't meant literally but it bugs me that people just assume Tracy is a "bad" guy and Depo and Frank really hate him, when none of us know the truth.

2005-08-03 22:25:30
672.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 667

From Gurnick's story:

Manager Jim Tracy tried to be diplomatic when asked if that was what he wanted Bradley to do.

"I don't think so," he said. "He represents the go-ahead run, that's definitely not the situation to consider bunting. I think he saw something with the depth of [third baseman Vinny] Castilla and Kent on deck. In that situation, you've got a shot with him and Kent and [Jose] Valentin and you hope with [Olmedo] Saenz."

Bradley's bunt off left-hander Mike Stanton popped up and into the glove of catcher Gary Bennett. Kent was called out on strikes and Valentin grounded out.

"I just overanalyzed the situation," said Bradley. "The way I was feeling tonight, I definitely should have swung the bat. I tried to be a smart guy, tried to be a genius and it turned out to be the dumbest thing I could have done. I tried to trick them [and] it totally backfired."


I blame Tracy for many things, but I don't blame him for Bradley being too clever by half in this situation.


2005-08-03 22:26:31
673.   rageon
There's just only so many days I can go and go saying the same things. Tracy is an idiot. Choi needs to play. Etc, etc, etc...

Still no word on Phillips I assume?

I feel really bad that I was slightly happy when I saw he left the game. It's a shame that I hate the way our team is run so much that I start hoping for players to get hurt. The thing is, even with Phillips out, Choi isn't the next option to go in the lineup, Saenz and Perez are.

At least I've got the A's to watch. If they were still playing like they were in May, I'm not sure what I'd do.

2005-08-03 22:32:33
674.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 671

I can only conclude that they do not strongly disagree with JT's lineups.

I don't think that's the only possible conclusion. DePo may despise Tracy's recent lineups but for all sorts of reasons is willing to tolerate them at this point in time. I think he was fine with playing Olmedo more often, but Henson's recent piece indicates that there has been some murmurings as of late about Choi's riding the pine in the front office. I think that that may only increase. Furthermore, McCourt may feel the need to keep Tracy on, either out of loyalty to the man or fear of a PR backlash.

My guess is that DePo and Tracy get along fine personally, but like one of the reporters Jon had for his three-way chat (was it Henson), my guess is that Tracy will be leaving this winter. The divorce may be amicable, but I think that things like the handling of Choi will eventually lead to it. I think DePo has a strong philosophical aversion to not interfering with on-field management, a policy which has its merits, but he'll eventually want a manager closer to his own outlook.

And don't use DePo's public persona to judge how he really thinks of Tracy. He's a man who's very glib and keeps his emotions in check--I remember him handling himself on Simers' radio show quite well. What DePo thinks in private may be totally different from what he says in public.


2005-08-03 22:32:34
675.   LAT
On a diffrent subject, what exactly is Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles? I know there are a few of them around town and I see the long lines. People rave about it. Is it just southern cooking? I said something about going to the wife and she made it clear I should plan on going with a buddy instead of her.
2005-08-03 22:36:55
676.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Another point I remembered. I have a Red Sox fan friend of mine who said that in Grady Little's last season, the front office under Epstein would always bend over backwards and claim that Grady had free reign on the field and that the detailed stats they sent him were only advisory. Grady ignored it all and may very well have been fired even without the Pedro fiasco of Game 7 in the 03 ALCS.

I myself would have preferred that DePo be more vigorous with Tracy, but I don't think we should under-rate the importance of baseball custom with regards to how much a front office can dicate on-field moves. Beane's methods by definition cut against the grain, and there may be good reasons that DePo or McCourt doesn't feel he has the same liberty in this hostile media market. It may just be easier to wait until the winter.


2005-08-03 22:42:08
677.   Xeifrank
I ass-u-me that with Phillips not playing tomorrow that Choi still won't start. My guess is that he moves Kent over to 1B and gives AP a start at 2B. Only other option would be to start Saenz at 1B. This seems like the perfect opportunity to give either Choi or AP a rare start. Not starting either one will most definitely start another FJT rant, which are becoming a nightly thing (with good reason).
vr, Xei
2005-08-03 22:48:04
678.   LAT
674 Wayne, I agree that Depo keeps himself in check. He always plays his cards close to the vest and I respect that. I am often surprised that other GMs talk publicly about who they want or their personnel issues.

It raises an issue I have often wondered about. Why did Beane agree to participate in the writing of Moneyball? He laid his philisophy out before God and Country thereby increasing compititon and making it far more difficult to navigate personnel waters. Even those that don't practice moneyball now know they hold a commodity that someone else deems valuable. That automatically raises the price. maybe he didn't expect to be with the A's much longer.

2005-08-03 22:50:39
679.   natepurcell
good news:

james loney with 2-4 with a 2b and a bb tonight.

his BA is up to .288 now and he might very well end the season around .300 which would surely show that last season was more due to his lingering finger injury and infection.

2005-08-03 22:54:20
680.   LAT
676 The problem with firing JT in the winter is, unlike Grady, JT can play the injury card. Plaschke will not doubt say then what he will say now: JT was fired unfairly becasue the Dodgers losing was the product of personnel moves and injuries. Regardless of whether anyone agrees with this he can say then as easily as now.
2005-08-03 22:54:44
681.   Steve
Let's put it this way. If Tracy and DePodesta actually do get along, that would just be yet another reason to fire DePodesta.
2005-08-03 22:58:23
682.   LAT
Is no one out there going to explain Roscoe's to me. Marty, where are you?
2005-08-03 22:58:28
683.   Steve
JT is not going to be fired. JT is going to exercise his opt out and be hired by another team with a significantly better contract then he has now -- if not Cincinnati then someone else. Plaschke will ramble about how they let this great baseball genius get away, and then some crickets will chirp, and then Plaschke will write about how the now retired Alex Cora should get the job, and then more crickets will chirp, and then we'll move on with the business at hand.
2005-08-03 22:58:40
684.   sanchez101
678. In the soft cover copy of moneyball; lewis explains that beane and the A's front office was suprised to learn that the book was so much about them. I dont think that lewis meant for the book to be largely about billy beane at first. If you get a chance, read it, its pretty funny and he actually writes about why baseball felt so threatened by beane despite the fact that all his "trade secrets" were revealed.
2005-08-03 22:59:10
685.   LAT
681. Steve, I can buy that.
2005-08-03 23:02:42
686.   LAT
684 I read it a while ago. Now i remember that. Thanks. But still a mistake for Beane to discuss the recipe for the secret sauce.

Was moneyball a term that was in existence before the book? Or did the book orginate the term?

2005-08-03 23:07:21
687.   sanchez101
676. Thats the best explanation ive heard. Ive heard/read a couple of depodesta's interviews. He always plays it real safe, and never really says anything all that meaningful, i woulndt take anything he says publicly with much weight. That said, how dumb is it that the organization is wise to keep from doing what it thinks is best because of the media reaction. At what point is the media doing more harm than good?
2005-08-03 23:12:17
688.   sanchez101
686. I agree, but then again, there were other GM's doing similar things. JP Ricciardi, Mark Shapiro, and Theo Epstein was hired before the book was published. Ultimatly success breeds imitation. Really the best justification for the "moneyball" approach, is the fact that its spread. Ive heard other GM's, scouts, media types, and managers critisize moneyball, but i cant recall any major league owner critisize the book or the general philosophy.
2005-08-03 23:14:42
689.   SiGeg
676, 687
I agree. And I don't think Depo would reallly be doing his job by letting us know right now what he thinks of Tracy's decisions. Eventually, however, I hope he has/will let Tracy know.

Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles is...well, chicken and waffles. If you like dinners that weigh as much as you do (or at least feel like it once you consume them), you'll love it.

2005-08-03 23:21:49
690.   Brendan

Yes Southern type cooking Wings, Greens, Corn bread, red beans and rice along with the chicken, potatoes etc..

2005-08-03 23:23:04
691.   LAT
689. Do people order them together? You don't get a plate of chicken with a side of waffles do you?
2005-08-03 23:36:42
692.   Uncle Miltie
On the Robles/Izturis debate (from BP 2003)
"Don't screw around with poor defenders at premium defensive positions. Certainly, everyone will take an A-Rod or a Jeff Kent if they can get him. But the number of such players is limited, and it may well make more sense to play someone like Izturis than, say, Julio Lugo or Terrence Long, who doesn't do anything particularly well. Investing in middle infield defense especially makes sense if you have a groundball-heavy pitching staff, which the Dodgers do."
I think Izturis will return to his defensive greatness. He looks like he may have bulked up a little bit this year, so I'm going to make the assumption that next year he will go return his usual self. Robles is not enough of an offensive upgrade to warrant starting over Izturis at SS. He is an average defender.
2005-08-03 23:45:21
693.   Brendan

Yes, they order together. syrup, butter etc. chicken and waffles, same order

2005-08-03 23:49:58
694.   Brendan

Fine. just bat him eighth. He can swing at every pitch then, who cares then.

He doesn't walk, doesn't see pitches, swings 2-0 counts in late innings down my multiple runs, he can't steal a base, low power. He would be an overachieving number 8.

2005-08-03 23:53:33
695.   LAT
Thanks Brendan SiGeg. That's great. I have to try that at least once.
2005-08-03 23:54:13
696.   Eric L
677, 684...

I'm gonna sound like a saber apologist on this one. Either that, or I am just being hypothetical...

Perhaps at the time that Beane allowed Lewis to follow him around in order to write Moneyball, Billy sensed a shift in the marketplace. At the time, maybe OBP and slow white guys (just to stereotype a bit) were undervalued, but other teams were catching on.

If you look at the A's now, they are certainly a different team than the Giambi/Tejeda A's of a few years ago.

2005-08-04 00:02:26
697.   LAT
696. I think you are right, Eric. Beane is a market contrarian. When everyone jumps on the slow white guy train, Beane is getting off and moving on to something else. By 2002 he had probably dumped his high-tech stocks.

I don't recall Moneyball discussing pitching too much. Yet the A's are a pitching machine this year. I wonder if he was intent not to disclose his pitching strategy to Lweis. (or maybe he did and I just forgot it).

2005-08-04 00:09:15
698.   Brendan

I do recall the hight strike out, low walk rate as the most important aspect of the Moneyball view of pitching. pitcher didn't have to throw 95 or be 6'5 if he could strike out people or not walk people. Of course if he threw 95 and did the other two things that was better.

2005-08-04 00:09:17
699.   Brendan

I do recall the hight strike out, low walk rate as the most important aspect of the Moneyball view of pitching. pitcher didn't have to throw 95 or be 6'5 if he could strike out people or not walk people. Of course if he threw 95 and did the other two things that was better.

2005-08-04 00:49:33
700.   bokonon42
Toward the end of Moneyball (I've been re-reading, now that so much of that year's draft class has become ripe) Lewis brings up Voros McCracken's (sp?) theory about BABIP; that was the only macrocosmic-pitching topic he spent much time with. The pitcher whose story he told (Bradford) was traded to the Red Sox this year for Jay Payton.

Lewis focused on offensive stats since that was where the greatest market inefficiency was. Beane's still using young (Rookie-young) pitchers for cheap. Even though they aren't flashy, their OPS Allowed is second only to Houston's. The A's are the fourth best team in the AL in OBP. The A's are still dead last in SB (though Boston has half as many CS). They're third from last in Sac hits (the Dodgers are tied with the Mets for eleventh; Washington is tops). Huh; not only does Washington lead the league in SH, it's also at the botom in SB%. Way to manufacture runs, Mr. Robinson.

Show/Hide Comments 701-750
2005-08-04 05:53:17
701.   DXMachina
652- I don't know about the others, but Campanis certainly played, and even had a cup of coffee with Brooklyn in '43.

LAT, Even this New England boy has been to Roscoes. More than once. Great food.

2005-08-04 07:01:13
702.   LAT
DXMachina, I really have to get to Roscoes. I have been to Haven Brothers more times than I can count-probably a few hundred. Same for the Coast Guard House. . .but not for food, just drink. It sounds like Roscoe's is a hole in my food repartee that needs to be filled in.
2005-08-04 07:12:06
703.   Colorado Blue
I will take Bradley's and Tracy's comments on face value. My initial reaction was that Tracy was playing true to form. I did take a moment to actually think that Bradley bunted on his own: given the situation I couldn't believe Tracy was that dumb.

1) I am relieved that the decision to bunt was not Tracy's.

2) I am impressed with Bradley for not only taking responsibility for the bunt, but to be retrospective enough to realize it was not wise in that situation.

2005-08-04 07:12:09
704.   DXMachina
I haven't been to the Coast Guard House in ages, but we used to drink there a lot when I was in grad school. Never been to Haven Brothers, but I'm rarely up that way.
2005-08-04 07:26:20
705.   Colorado Blue
703 Addendum: I still hope that Tracy is gone after this season.

My biggest reason for dismissing Tracy has to do with his fanatical change of lineups. I believe that at minimum 6 positions should be consistent (i.e. 5 - 6 games a week). With the exception of Kent, Izturis, and Bradley JT changes the lineup constantly. I don't think any of the other 5 guys are comfortable at all and have to be wondering were they fit in. I know injuries have taken a toll on being able to field a consistent lineup. With Valentin back and assuming Drew is out for the season I would like to see the following lineup sink-or-swim:

Robles (3B)
Izturis (SS)
Bradley (CF)
Kent (2B)
Valentin (LF)
Repko (RF)
Navarro (C)

Since we know Choi would never start regularly I am willing to give the job to Phillips. I am torn about Perez. His offensive upside is hard to bench, but where does he play? How about 1B? He can't be any worse than Phillips and I would accept Choi on the bench with Perez's bat in the lineup.

2005-08-04 07:36:05
706.   LAT
Haven Brothers ain't what it used to be but still fun for old times sake. Back in the day, '79 or so, there was a place in North Kingston called Custy's, an all you could eat buffet, that included all the lobster, steak and clams you could knock back for about $15. It was supposedly owned by the wise guys and they ran book out of it. Eventually, I think it burned down (what a suprise). In high School, my buddies and I used to really got our money's worth.
2005-08-04 07:53:35
707.   DXMachina
Custy's is still a vacant lot (I live in NK). It closed around '85, but it was great while it lasted.
2005-08-04 07:53:57
708.   Sam DC
Apologies to any DC folks who made it to Trusty's last night and asked a confused bunch strangers if they posted on Dodger Thoughts. I had to give my buddy a ride back to his car after the game (nothing like having a couple of beers than driving around the pentagon parking lot at 11 pm).

Anyhow, Houlton looked good. Everyone else was pretty flat.

Random observations. Both Cesar and Valentin took the time during the game to collect stray foul balls and hand them to little kids, which was nice.

Hee Seop Choi has a lot of fans. A few people around me were calling for him to come in throughout the game, and when he was on deck in the ninth, a little "Hee. Seop. Choi." chant started in our section where he could clearly hear it.

Kind of nice, in a way, to get such a stark reminder not to rush to judgment/jump to conclusions as the Bradley pop bunt. During the game, I rejected out of hand the idea that he was bunting on his own, and said some pretty harsh things about the move to my friend (who himself believed it must have been an effort to sneak one in, as it was).

2005-08-04 07:57:05
709.   Marty
LAT, the best Roscoe's is supposed to be the one on Pico, close to Koreatown. I go to the one in Pasadena and it's great. I always get the "big mama's special". Scrambled eggs and chreese with about a pound of butter and smother potatos. It should be called the defibrillator special.

The chicken and waffles are also good.

2005-08-04 08:07:18
710.   FirstMohican
I occasionally hit the Roscoe's on Pico. I got a chicken omlette the first time I went and realized that they put fried chicken in them. I suggest getting anything other than the eggs. Don't, under any circumstance, get the eggs.
2005-08-04 08:21:55
711.   coachbean
[705] I agree whole-heartedly... my hatred for Tracy definitely has something to do with his bunting and bullpen usage, but the real real root of his evil stems from his insistence on "carving lineups out of driftwood"... Edwards, Grabowski and others may be driftwood, but a guy like Choi is a fine peice of Italian marble and should be treated accordingly. The little league hijinks need to go.

I have been thoroughly frustrated with the Dodgers inability to get any "momentum" going this season (when was the last 4 game winning streak?) and I am now convinced that Tracy's lineup jockeying is the reason.

2005-08-04 09:00:46
712.   Brendan
I want to thank all posters from 700-711

I double posted on 698 and 699 and I couldn't apologize and have it be on post # 700. You can't have a double posting apology on post #700, you just can't

So thanks.

I know it is one game but this is a small test to see if Penny is really our stopper, our ace. Dodgers need this win. good chance SD could lose again tonight with the expected pitching match-ups.

2005-08-04 09:43:18
713.   gvette
Is Alvarez ending his "retirement" supposed to be a GOOD thing?
2005-08-04 09:58:08
714.   Sam DC
4-0 Padres in the second.

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