Nakamuracide. I like it.

Am I ignoring defense? Not that much. Only at third base is there any kind of defensive dropoff between the lineup listed here and the lineup Jim Tracy is making.

I was trying to make that point in the last discussion.

That's an excellent and comprehensive summary of the season.

scouting vs stats. I/We all talk the scouting from what we see, and Jon comes in with his typical brilliant breakdown of what is. I think it's time for me to go clank a few coins in his PayPal account.

as long as Tracy is there, they won't do better

Laughed aloud at the Phillips "anyone can do better" reference. Nice turn of the phrase.

I'm going to state the obvious in a different way for discussion's sake: How bad must APerez be as a third baseman that a manager so desperate for someone, anyone to play that position with a reasonable level of competency no longer considers him a candidate for that position on the field? For the love of God, even Choi makes an occasional appearance at first base.

I wish APerez was playing every day, but if Shelby says he's not ready for the outfield, and he's not a third baseman, and Kent won't move to first, what does one do? We need an outfielder, we have two second basemen - even a minor trade might help win a pennant. (Assuming Tracy never brings in a reliever, of course.)

---sometime later today...

"Yeah, sorry I'm late guys. I was busy making an online transaction with my source Shifty J."

why not try APerez at first....

re: Navarro

if he doesn't learn quickly to throw a fast ball instead of a curve to second base, we may see Martin next...

4 - Howard, i seem to remember that you were pro-Tracy earlier in the season (I could be totally wrong about this, I realize, so I apologize if I am mischaracterizing your perspective).

Unless I'm totally wrong about that, what prompted the change in perspective?

Yesterday, someone raised a point about Riggleman that is intriguing. While he was the bench coach, none of us seemed to have too much issue with Tracy. Now that he's gone, we're totally confused by his lack of internal consistency with decision making. It could be a fallacy to assume that Riggleman's departure is what is causing this season's madness, but it DOES make me wonder...

maybe not a curve...more like a screwball

9 - me? pro Tracy? you got the wrong guy...

I gotta take a break from the choi / tracy stuff though. Next year's proposed lineup:

Perez 3B
Drew RF
Dunn LF
Bradley CF
Kent 2B
Choi 1B
Navarro / Martin / Phillips C
Izturis/Robles SS
P

bench:

Saenz
Ledee
LaRoche
C
Repko
SS
not Jim Tracy

No evidence here whatsoever..

I think Tracy was making headscratchers before this season, but the team was doing well enough that they weren't as noticeable.

All this Choi/Tracy talk makes me want to pull a Carlos Perez on the coffee maker.

12 - where is Guzman? how did we get Dunn?

remember, Tracy was the one who had Beltre penciled in 7th in the lineup, oh seer of seers...

I don't really expect to see Guzman or LaRoche next year (and not really Dunn) either.

Pitchers seem to skip AAA, but it doesn't seem as common for hitters. I would think that Young and Aybar will be more likely to get called up sometime next year.

12 If that's next year's lineup and bench, even I will stop watching the Dodgers on TV after 30-some years, Vin Scully and all. Alert the advertisers.

18 - Huh? I think that's a pretty good lineup, especially if the bullpen and staff is strong. I assume you are not a fan of Dunn?

9 Interesting statement about Riggleman. To take it further, was Lett really the best choice? When Lett has been forced to manage this season, he seems very similar to Tracy. It's very likely that he and Tracy see eye to eye, at least moreso than Tracy and Riggleman, so Tracy gets to use his old school techniques, which are meaningless because this team wasn't built for it

my preferred:

Perez
Drew
Bradley
Kent
Dunn (LF of choice, I guess. Giles, etc.)
Choi
C
Izturis

just how did we come to have Dunn on the team?

I think seeing a Giles rental is more realstic than getting Dunn.

I had Kent at the four spot originally too db, but then I realized the age factor might kick in so #5 seemed safer.

19 Clarifying: It's a good lineup of guys we still have (plus Dunn - I like him) who could play .500 baseball. But it also means we didn't spend enough to improve the team ...... that's what worries me.

Dunn would be cheaper next year though, and that might please McCourt. Also, don't we need to start trading some of the prospects to get value for them? Seems like we might have too many to serve a need with all of them.

And I worry more - and I've posted this before (and got hammered for it!) - that we are going to collectively accept this as fans. We should not accept this.

27 - and our recourse is???

For some reason, I thought that Cincinnati still had Dunn next season, albeit at a higher salary. Or is he arbitration-eligible?

I also don't think we have a chance of getting Giles... apparently he's quite happy with the Padres and is also an SD native.

25 There's really no need to go out and spend a lot of money for a new lineup. A healthy(ier) Drew and Giles/Dunn. And the money could go to pitching. The FA market this year is pretty bad, only relief pitching is any good.

29 He's arbitration eligible, but due to make a lot of money.

I suspect if DePo thought Dunn was the answer, in exchange for some prospects, he would have done it...

Stop lining McCourt's pockets? I know ... I know ... if we don't buy tickets then someone else will. Look at the attendance this year - incredible.

The Reds' asking price might drop a little in the off-season with only one year of service left from him as opposed to this trade deadline. But who knows.

Jon, the pitching will have to be awfully good for that line-up to win.

Stan from Tacoma

32- Word has it that Cincinnati was asking for the moon, though. It may be that Depo feels he's worth signing (at $9-10 mil per) but not worth giving up a significant number of our best prospects for.

33 - tell you what...I have moved my seats to better locations twice this year...I am now behind the plate on the loge level...if people are giving up their seats because of the team's performance this year, great...

35
It's a little depressing that that is the best line-up we can put out right now.

i would like a better third baseman than perez, whom i don't fully believe in yet, and it would be nice to see some of our young arms in the bullpen at least, and an upgrade in the rotation. but other than that, the lineup in [12] looks decent to me.

i mean, even without dunn, we haven't actually had that lineup since may or something, right? bradley was gone, now drew is gone, choi doesn't play, perez doesn't either, izturis was hurt, phillips was catching 90% of the time... anyway i don't think that's a .500 lineup at ALL. and with an addition like dunn, if the players maintain any kind of good health for most of the season, on paper that's a division winner and a contender in the NL playoffs.

so the Braves have a team of youngsters and keep winning, the A's always find young players who produce quickly, etc etc...

why can't the Dodgers ever be that team that brings up young players from their system who produce at least modestly, but consistently? why can't we ever be that team?

40
Soon.

39
Yeah Perez has been a bit lucky. He's not gonna hit .330 forever. Our line-up could certainly use a new LF and 3B.

41 - what? Valentin isn't your first choice in left? Robles doesn't light your fire at third?

Jon, the pitching will have to be awfully good for that line-up to win.

Stan from Tacoma

back to Tracy, again...forever...

Repko is finally starting to hit, going the other way, raising his batting average, getting on base...all the while being the best defensive outfielder on the team...

so Tracy decides he needs a rest...

move over, Hee Seop

35 & 43 - hey popup, what did you say? I didn't get that...say again??

40. The Dodgers can. Now. Malone pillaged the farm system and drafted poorly. Evans and DePo have brought it back to life. But at this point (2005) the kids are still kids. This is precisely why DePo was unwilling to trade for a big bat (at inflated prices) last month, so THAT the Dodgers can be the team to bring up its own prospects. The diff. between LA and those other teams is that our studs are still in AA.

Put Drew in Ledee's place, and that lineup will work just fine. I've even gotten to the point where I would accept a Ledee/Repko platoon for the third OF spot. But Jon still hasn't covered the Dawn of the Dead-type gore-fest that is our pitching staff.

#46: I agree. Still, I don't expect the significant impacts from the farm to come until 2007 (Billingsley, Orenduff, LaRoche, Martin, etc.).

46 - uh huh....

it has always been curious to me that while other teams find these studs and they make the majors in 2 years...we always need to develop them over a period of 3 or 4 or more

The problem with 3B is getting someone who will be good for a few years a la Kent so we don't block our prospects (our 3B prospects are probably our best set after SP and 2B, and possibly RP). The FA market is thin, after Bill Mueller, it's guy like Randa and Helms. Our best choice could be Lowell, who doesn't have a lot longer on his contract, it's just expensive. Plus Florida wants to get rid of him

35 - It will have to be - and it isn't.

49 A lot of these studs you speak of were college players. That's the problem with White, he drafts guys that may be better, but it will take longer to get here. Orenduff could easily be here by next year at some point, which was 2 years out of college

#49: Howard, the reason it's curious is that it's not true. So far I've looked at the Angels, Braves, and Dodgers 40-man rosters and the quickest teen signees to make an impact in the major leagues still spent 4 years developing (Furcal, Hampton, Smoltz, Jones, Thomson, Guerrero). Thus, 2006 would be the first year to expect any impact from Logan White's 2002 high school draftees and likely beyond that based on the more conservative 6 - 7 years that most players took.

53 - fine, whatever

#53: I should have been explicit in saying that it's not true for teenage signees. I have seen many cases of 20 or over signees making an impact 2 - 3 years after being signed (Weaver, Erickson, Erstad, Drew, Hudon, Prinz, Lackey, Jordan).

some of the hitters like laroche, delwyn young, loney and aybar could make impacts by mid season of next year.

laroche and loney will be 22, and that is around the age when good players staret to "get it" and it clicks. I expect big things out of them next year in vegas.

With all the Jax Suns talk we have on this board, I decided to take a look at some of the offensive stats of their team. Tydus Meadows seems to be the best offensive player on the team, yet others like Guzman, Young, Miller and LaRoche seem to have more of a buzz surrounding their name. Any thoughts on Meadows and his chance for promotion from the experts?
vr, Xei

5

Joe you wrote:

i'm going to state the obvious in a different way for discussion's sake: How bad must APerez be as a third baseman that a manager so desperate for someone, anyone to play that position with a reasonable level of competency no longer considers him a candidate for that position on the field

But what if you had written the following:

I'm going to state the obvious in a different way for discussion's sake: How bad must Tracy be as a manager that a team so desperate for someone, anyone to play that position with a reasonable level of competency no longer considers him a candidate for that position on the field

Playing Perz a few times and declaring him unfit to play Third is the mistake. There is nothing in Perez's minor league or major league history that says he cannot play an adequate thrid and contribute well to the offense. You're blaming the victim. This is what is obvious to me. I realize you brought it up for discussion but I also think you believe it through reading your previous posts.

tydus meadows is 27 yrs old. he is just a minor league filler, although i do think he should be promoted to AAA.

51 But, um, wait, that would mean . . .

59 - meadows is a minor league filler...what is edwards? and he got a chance...

#56: Nate, I am excited about our prospects, but I have low expectations for their contributions next season. Aybar will be the closest to contributing since he'll have a full season of AAA under his belt. Unfortunately, the only position Aybar has a chance to be better than average at (combining offense and defense) is second base and we already have at least 2 second baseman for 2006 (Kent, Perez, and possibly Robles).

The MLB.com/MiLB.com lovefest for Ogden players has ended, so they have decided to do a player that hasn't even signed yet

http://tinyurl.com/832zj

Also, BA has recognized Russell Mitchell as a legitimate prospect

Delwyn Young is now 8-21 (small sample size, I know) with 4 doubles and 2 walks. Vegas isn't going anywhere, he has no glove at 2nd, and is on the 40 man. Should we risk playing him in the OF for a September (or earlier) callup? He can't do much worse than Valentin (who I admit I am not very fond of)

53 - Howard, for some reason that made me laugh out loud. It was like you were being told that eventually, your kids will behave. Perfect balance of the open-minded and the cynical.

the problem you are having fearing blue is that you are lumping every prospect together into one catagorey.

all prospects cant just be defined by one set of rules. you have to take each differently, especially ones that have been higher touted that others.

scouts love laroche and loney, saying that when developed, they have the tools needed to be very good major league players. Usually now (ages 21-23) is when these type of herald prospects start turning the corner and their learing curve is excelerated.

i just expect big years out of these two next year in vegas, with laroche being called up mid year but loney not because of being blocked by choi.

dewlyn youngs glove isnt as bad and everyone is making it out to be.

Lowell is owed $18M for 2006 and 2007, his 32 and 33 yr old seasons. BP still rates his glove as above avg. He'd definitely clear waivers. He had a nice July .322/.365/.494 but he's slumping again lately. Would be great if they'd split the balance with us. Then you're paying him just over Valentin.

A game from the past

On Thursday June 4, 1964 the Los Angeles Dodgers played the first place Philadelphia Phillies at Connie Mack Stadium in the concluding game of a three game series. It was a school night for me so I listened to the game called by Phillies broadcasters By Saam, Bill Campbell and Ritchie Ashburn on the radio.

On the mound for the Dodgers was Sandy Koufax. With the Phillies in first place and the best pitcher in baseball to oppose them, 29,709 people who evidently did not have to go to school the next day were on hand to see the contest.

Chris Short, a fine lefthander who had won 20 games the previous season, was on the mound for Philadelphia. Koufax and Short were both magnificient. Koufax retired the side in order through the first three innings. With two out in the Philadelphia fourth, Koufax walked Dick Allen. Allen was caught stealing by catcher Doug Camilli to end the inning.

The Dodgers did little to threaten Short until the seventh inning. Jim Gilliam opened the Dodger seventh with a single to center. Tommy Davis moved Gilliam to third with a single to right. Frank Howard followed with a homerun to give Sandy all the offense he would need.

When the Dodgers broke through with the three runs, all attention shifted to Koufax. Except for the fourth inning walk to Allen, Sandy was perfect through the first six innings.

With a no-hitter on the line, Walt Alston shifted his line-up to put his best defensive team on the field. Frank Howard was replaced by rookie Wes Parker in right and Ron Fairly replaced Ken McMullen at first. Koufax breezed through the seventh, eighth and ninth innings en route to the third no-hitter in his career.

Sandy struck out 12 on the night and the fourth inning walk to Allen was the only baserunner he allowed. The time of game was one hour and fifty-five minutes, so I would have had plenty of time to get home from Philadelphia, get to bed, and attend school next day. Alas, it was not to be. I am thankful I got to listen to the game and though I did not see him that night, I feel privileged I saw him pitch in person many times during his remarkable career.

Thanks to retrosheet, Bob Timmermann and Jon

Stan from Tacoma

Isn't Delwyn Young another Perez with more power? If Perez can't get any time would Young get any also?

I was never a Shawn Green fan, especially over the last two seasons. It was painful watching him and I was a little happy trading him to Arizona. But, a week of watching Navarro has not colored me impressed.

I know he's young and hasn't had any time in the big leagues yet, but especially with Martin doing what he is in the minors, I now wish that we hadn't traded Green. He'd be useful (I'm hoping) to the Dodgers this year, and Navarro may not end up being our catcher for the future. And all this while ignoring the obvious... we are paying most of Green's salary this year. Anyone else have second thoughts on that trade??

64 - I agree

fortunately, I look at this blog and sports in general as being all in fun...

I find it extremely difficult to take serious someone playing a game, getting paid ungodly amounts of money, and having issues...

just like I can't take seriously strong opinions from casual fans like myself who profess to have insights by whatever method they use...

the truth is, some of the best memories of the Dodgers over the years have been with teams that weren't supposed to win, and that made it all the sweeter

now I'll go to my room and sit in the corner and think about it, and I won't come out until I can explain myself...

#61: Baseball Prospectus really liked Meadows coming into the season. They projected him as an average defensive left fielder with a .260/.342/.457 major league batting line and a .267 EQA. So far this season with Jacksonville, Meadows has put together a .293/.434/.537 batting line with almost as many walks (72) as strikeouts (86). Meadows will be turning 28 September 5th, which is why he's not considered a prospect, though he could be a sleeper as a high-quality 4th outfielder type. Twenty-seven year old outfielder Jon Weber is also doing well with Jacksonville, putting together a .314/.377/.502 batting line.

66 Even if it's not terrible, we have 3 other prospects plus 2 guys in the majors whose glove is no worse. We need his offense, it's just too bad he doesn't play on the left side of the infield.

Isn't Delwyn Young another Perez with more power? If Perez can't get any time would Young get any also?

now this is where the "FJT" part comes in handy.

67-contd.

If LaRoche takes over at 3B before 2007, Lowell could become the new Saenz, albeit expensive. Even this year he's killed lefties.

Would just like to point out that Robles was hitting 350 not to long ago. Given plenty of ab's his average is what you'd expect. Pretty sure that if A Perez had been given the same numbers of at bats that Robles has squandered that you would see him coming back to earth just as quickly. Their is nothing in A Perez's history to suggest that he is a Major League 300 hitter. I've said this before he is hitting 70 points over his head and the only reason he is still above that level is because he has not gotten the proper number of at bats to sink to his eventual level. That is not to say I wouldn't give him the at bats, just that I am not optimistic that he would do much with them. However only playing time will give us an answer. I think Depo has failed us at 3b as all the options (Valentin,Perez,Robles,Edwards) are below replacement level. Tracy has failed us at 1st base as he has failed to use the proper people. Injuries have failed us in the outfield and in the bullpen though I think the outfield injuries were predictable given the number of games our starting threesome has missed during their brief careers.
The following players would make a kickass bench (Valentin, Perez, Robles, Saenz, Edwards, Philips, Ledee, Rekpo) if we had a decent starting team. We don't and thus our team blows chunks.

Which will occur first?

Navarro throw out a runner or get his first RBI.

69 Young can and has played the outfield. he played a few games for Jacksonville in right

40 In response to Howard's comment on the Braves (I hesitate to even go here, since Fearing's on the prowl and does this all much better than I can):

I totally sympathize with what you said about the Braves, but it's kind of interesting to actually look at their team composition:

1b Laroche (26)
2b Giles (29)
ss Furcal (27)
3b Chipper (33)
lf Johnson (23)
cf Andrum (28)
rf Langerhans (25)
4of Francoeur (21)

Now, Francoeur is going nuts right now, but he's clearly overperforming (I think he could be good, but he's obviously not going to OPS over 1200; so far in 64 PAs he's struck out 13 times and drawn nary a walk). Johnson and Langerhans (OPS of 698,724, respectively) are not setting the world on fire. When you look at the rest of the guys (the Jones brothers, Furcal, Giles, Estrada) you see a good, young team, yes, but not exactly a bunch of "kids" as is so often advertised. Obviously, the Braves have done a remarkable job of bringin guys up, and some of them have had good success at a young age, but even Andruw Jones, the next Griffey/Mantle/Mays didn't OPS over 900 until he was 23, in his fifth year facing big league pitching, and had only done it once before this year. It seems like what Fearing has been saying all along is that, nine times out of ten (or more) a 22 year old, even a hyped one, is not going to be able to make sustained and substantial contributions to the big league team.

So, we're going to have to be patient and watch our farm talent develop. A good franchise, like the Braves, has a farm system that is steadily producing major league talent, which is ready to step in when big leaguers become too expensive or too old or both. The Dodgers, as we all know, have gone through a long patch where they were not, from top to bottom, a good franchise. Hopefully things have turned around, and there are indicators that they have. But only time will tell for certain.

72 - so if we stink, and don't like who we have on the major league roster, and don't want to bring up our budding raw talent, why not bring up all these mid 20s players...

they can't do worse than what we have now, and maybe we have greater flexibility for trades

stupid idea, I know...I'll go back to my room now

I'm not impressed with Navarro either but don't judge a kid on 30 at bats. Do it the Atlanta way and really give them a chance. As a catcher his 1st concern is working with the pitching staff and watching him just as a catcher I was impressed. As a hitter much less so but his pedigree doesn't suggest much as a hitter so this should come as no surprise. If he can continue to walk he will have some value as he is not a base clogger like Philips.

#65: So, Loney being blocked by Choi means you're assuming Tracy is no longer the manager, correct? Otherwise, as long as Loney can hit a buck-eighty and play some defense he should be golden :). I'm not lumping everyone together, I'm just pointing out that, from what I've seen, there is a range of development time for teenage signees which typically goes from 4 years to 9 years. I do believe our top prospects will end up on the lower end of that curve, but that's why I've been aiming for 2007 (5 years). LaRoche may play third base in the majors next year, but my suggestion is to be patient as we shouldn't expect much (e.g. Glaus' first year in the majors).

hey, Cabrera of the Marlins overperformed at 20 years old too, and look where it got him...I stand corrected

76 - Perez certainly isn't a .330 hitter, but a .275 hitter with 10-15 home runs, and decent on base isn't sub replacement.

Does anyone still think that we can finish .500 or better?

Cabrera and Pujols really shouldn't enter into the conversation (same goes for Delmon Young). Some guys are just crazy like that, but there's not many.

76

"However only playing time will give us an answer"

Agreed. that's the truth.

66-D Young is going to bang but I doubt he ever does it as a 2nd baseman for the LA Dodgers. He is however now werth a trip to Vegas to check him out. I don't think you can judge his defense by watching on the 4 inch window that the Sun's provide. Enough scouts have said he has iron hands and is missing the 1st step that I will have to see with my own eyes. I remember watching Scott Hairston of Arizona who was much like D Young in that he banged his way up the ladder but everyone said his defense was suspect. When he finally made it last year he was the worse defensive 2nd baseman I've ever seen in the Major Leagues. So I will give the scouts the benefit of the doubt until I see him play with my own eyes.

#80: I've been in favor of bringing up Meadows for a while now, or at the very least promoting him to AAA to see what he could do with advanced pitching. I certainly don't understand what he has left to prove his sixth year in AA.

84-but what if he is playing 3b and he hits 240 with 10 dingers and plays really bad defense which is what I've seen complete season projections for him based on his minor league numbers.

85 - yes we can...will we? no...

86 - that's funny...and if Young is in that class, why isn't he in the majors yet?

#79: Well put, Paul. Thanks for the breakdown. Francoeur has, so far, been the most impressive of the bunch, but like you, I expect him to fall back down to earth since he only had a .809 OPS in 335 AA at-bats.

68 - Ah, the gold old days when we had a catcher that could actually thorw out base stealers. Forgot what that looked like.

85 - ABSOLUTELY!! [not]

80 they can't do worse than what we have now, and maybe we have greater flexibility for trades

Well, I think Jason Grabowski is Exhibit A for the difference between minor league ability and major league ability. Grabs tears up AAA, but stinks in the Show. Not that everyone will have that big a dropoff. But to assume that our minor leaguers "can't do worse than what we have now" is, well, to assume something not in evidence. They actually COULD do a lot worse.

The frustrating thing, for me, is not waiting for the kids to develop. We knew we'd have to wait. It's watching while Tracy benches better options than he plays. With the injuries, esp. to Drew and Gagne, this team is not very good, but it could be better than it is with just a few different managerial decisions. That the difference might be enough to win the division rather than finish 3rd doesn't really matter to me, because I think any NL West winner will exit the playoffs quickly.

90

I'd like to see the "really bad defense" projections. can you point me in the right direction?

#84: I agree. Of that group, Edwards is the only one who might be sub-replacement level. On the other hand, they are all below average for third base and on a contending team that may be the more important issue.

91 About Young, it's the D-rays. They need to play Damon Hollins on a regular basis. Plus there's the whole arbitration thing. He's only 19, and he's easily the best hitting prospect in the minors.

At what point does Tracy throw his hands in the air (and we just throw up) and start playing people that he hasn't wanted to play? In other words, when does he give up on the season? 8 games out? 10 games? 12 games?

98 Whenever the guys he plays now (Phillips) misplace their photos of him...

#91: We don't have that Young (Delmon), we have Delwyn the slower, infielder version. Alex Rodriguez is another exception to include in that group. Unfortunately, none of our prospects are projected to be as good as Pujols, Rodriguez, Cabrera, or Young.

On another subject, why do most of Billy Beane's pitching prospects succeed while just about all of Seattle's fall to injury? I would be scared to death if I was King Felix's agent as that team is the poster child of prospect hell for pitching prospects. The latest guy threw just one inning in his 1st Major League start and now he's down with TJ surgery. Which is why I couldn't care less if Depo was to move our pitching prospects for solid value. I'd tear up if he moves Guzman/LaRoche but wouldn't bat an eye if he trades the pitching.

It's funny how Tracy's mind works.

Wasn't he complementing A Perez early in the season and then after several bad games, Tracy just completely changed his mind.

Tracy show very little patience for certain players (Perez, Choi) while he gives too long a leash to players like (Izturis, Robles, Werth, Phillips).

Tracy definitely prefers SCRAPPY players so even player like Dunn would not have fit in here.

It seems too obvious that he shows too much favoritism and not enough objectivity.

We need a manager who can be objective and not let his personal feelings make the decisions.

98 & 99 - when a few more go onto the DL

#101: I'm hopeful that DePodesta brought some of the Oakland methodologies regarding pitcher development with him to the Dodgers. The Dodgers are certainly taking a slower and more conservative approach with their prospects this season. I believe the primary issue is that a pitcher's arm is typically not ready to throw 200+ innings until he's older. Organizations like Seattle and previously the Dodgers didn't seem to recognize that.

102 - yes, but what is wrong with Tracy as manager?

104 - its the manager...

look at Dusty Baker, for example...he never met a starter who he didn't leave in for at least 9 innings

further, I don't know that any pitcher should pitch that many innings, as a rule...its unnatural arm movement

For all the talk of Tracy's favoritism, I still can't understand Phillips at first base. He's not that scrappy, he doesn't look like a ballplayer, and he's not very good. Tracy must put a whole lot more stock into BA w/ RISP than we imagine. Perhaps Tracy's list of valued baseball qualities is something like this.

1) Abilities in the Clutch (RISP)
2) Perceived Defensive Ability (# errors)
3) Scrap Factor (diving for balls out of reach)
4) Situational Hitting (bunting)
5) Professional Hitting (does this mean anything?)

108 - be careful when you talk about how he looks...in the last thread I was taken to task for saying things like that

Could Tracy prefer overachievers than actual talent?

"Professional Hitter" = veteran/old

Just as a quick gut check that Terry Collins is being cautious, I looked at the top starters in the Southern League. Of all the pitchers in the Southern league with at least 20 games started, Chad Billingsley has thrown the least number of innings (106.1). The two highest are Jae-kuk Ryu (133.1) and Ricky Nolasco (124.1), both on the Cubs AA team. I guess destroying pitchers is an organizational strategy for the Cubbies.

Professional hitters hit as their profession. I still have no idea how Phillips is one and Choi isn't

That list looks accurate

Tracy must be having hangover from last year's team when we had the best infield defense. He can't get past the fact that this team is totally different and he just does not use the players wisely.

# 90
Perez,Antonio 25 64 aaa LA 476 64 114 19 3 16 61 42 62 15 16 239 301 393 694 8% 87% 0.68 93 98 3.75 32

The defense they could not have projected for him as a 3b because he'd never played there. Baseball Prospectus had him as -9 as a SS in 2004 and since 2002 he has not posted a positive defensive number at any position.
The important number above are the 239 average, 301 OBA, 393 slug %.

Even still A Perez has impressed me and I wish he'd get the at bats to see if he can produce at 270/325/410 which would be adequate for a 3b but nothing to get excited about as Mike Edwards could probably do that. None of that is going to help this team win if we have the huge offensive holes at catcher, 1st, RF, LF that we are currently carrying.

no, old is "thouroughly professional hitter"

112 So they develop them, trade them for goods before they fall apart, then they acquire Giants prospects when they need pitching. Brilliant strategy...

#109: That was partially why I referenced it. I thought that if I couldn't figure out the answer statistically, I should try thinking about the mumbo jumbo Howard throws out there :).

Steve, what is "situational hitter".

I should not have used the term replacement level but I still think they all suck as starters for a team trying to win. JMO

Antonio Perez is a terrible fielder. It can be debated how much it matters, and I think he should play every day, but I don't see much debate on this issue.

Do Robles, Repko, and Navarro qualify as our "situational fielders"

116 -- the older, the more adverbs, if I understand my "Tracy Lexicon" correctly.

119 -- FB provided a very good summary of the translation chart in 108. Situational hitting is bunting, indeed. I had thought at one point it was hit and run ability, but he used it at one point to describe Repko, who, with 134 strikeouts, is basically the last person to hit and run with (along with Choi and Valentin).

It may also mean "Player Tracy Likes."

Situational fielder probably means Tracy remembers at least one play where he was impressed. Navarro caught Schmoll's "pitch," Repko has made some nice throws, Robles has some impressive plays, and Valentin made that catch yesterday, so he probably qualifies as well

Didn't Tracy try to hit and run with Phillips on the bases the other day? There's a bad idea if I've ever known one

In the previous thread, 'kent' said Wallach was talking about Choi's swing making it unlikely he'll ever be a consistent hitter in the bigs. What's the source of that comment? It would be another example, one of many, of the front office and the on-field management not being on the same page. That is the Dodgers' biggest problem. Tracy & co. ain't buying what DePo & co. are selling. So the ship is adrift...

118 - "I'm laughing at your superior intellect..."

who said this...quick...

126
So you're saying the problem is our front office and on-field chemistry?

124 Same rational for "situational pitcher" like Carrara, Sanchez, Alvarez, Brazoban.

Too bad we can't erase Tracy's memory each day so that he has to start from new.

Remlinger DFA'd. Not that we should care, but he was nonetheless.
4.91 ERA, 33 IP, 30 Ks, 12 BBs, 5 HRs

129 - that is the problem...he forgets one day to the next who is hitting well

129
Mr. Burns: "Quick, Smithers. Get the amnesia ray!"
Smithers: "You mean the revolver?"
Mr. Burns: "Precisely."

It appears my order was wrong since Perez has a .371 BA w/ RISP. Defense and potentially scrap factor must be more importance than clutch abilities.

1) Perceived Defensive Ability (# errors)
2) Scrap Factor (diving for balls out of reach)
3) Abilities in the Clutch (RISP)
4) Situational Hitting (bunting)
5) Professional Hitting (veteran/old)

And of course, Choi meets none of the key Tracy criteria, which is why he gets to watch the game from the bench.

131 or he remembers too much from the past

133 - you? wrong? impossible...must have been a computer glitch

133
But how scrappy is Phillips?

crappy?

133 Tracy will just say that "Perez only has 35 AB with 16 RBI" is not enough sample size to qualify as clutch.

What is a professional hitter? Depends who you ask. This article: http://tinyurl.com/dxlwg
extolls the professional hitter qualities demonstrated by a certain St. Louis first baseman. Hey, maybe we do need one of those!

Then again, there's this: http://tinyurl.com/e44j9
explaining the professionalism of Joe Randa.

Or this: http://tinyurl.com/crod6
pegging Rondell White as a practitioner of the art of professional hitting. (Extra credit for this article, which discusses how the Tigers, who thought Bip Roberts would fill their professional hitter void, soon learned he was nothing but a "professional pain in the neck")

Final answer: the beautiful thing about a professional hitter is you can find one just about anywhere you look, if you look hard enough (and use your imagination).

136 Scrappier than Choi apparently. Only a scrappy player can be timed running to first in 20 seconds while running full speed

#135: Interesting... I wonder if DePodesta could use the same excuse? It would certainly fit with the LA Times story line.

IMDb shows your quote from Captain Kirk to Khan.

Getting back to the original post. As bad as this team is can you imagine what it would be if Depo had done what the media and some here (maybe me) advocated this winter. Even with this crappy team we have he looks very smart(hate to use the genius tag) by not signing
Beltre-maybe the worse FA signing in history if he doesn't turn it around. I will state right here that I wanted Beltre signed but probably not at the price that Seattle was suckered into.
Finley- is there any doubt he is done-never wanted him as I saw him play CF last year and thought he was way overrated as a fielder and I like my centerfielders to be able to chase down the balls..
Lima-hee hee- I wanted him at a cheap price
Cora-never liked him much, most overrated utility player in Dodger media history.
Jose Hernandez-he we could use but not at the price that Cleveland gave him.

All in all some very astute non moves.

Robles, Repko, and Phillips remind Tracy of his playing days and how he felt unappreciated for his "scrappy situational hitting".

141 - that quote was probably too easy for you

Wonder if Tracy was good bunter in his playing days? He must have been asked a lot to bunt.

Does anyone know how to search previous archives on this site?

146 Other than clicking on a certain month and praying you remember which thread it was, no.

#144: Surprisingly, I was never much of a Trekky. Nonetheless, as you correctly inferred, I had my fair share of geek vices growing up.

136

Goggles = scrappy?
Maybe JT is in Gagne withdrawl.

146 I once asked and The Mighty Ken told me to (i) go to google and (ii) format the search like this: "site:dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com (search term)". It seems to work.

Behind the Great Wall Neyer just slammed the Dodger lineup. Some blurbs:

"not the lineup of a contender... Robles and Repko belong in the Pacific Coast League...
Phillips was playing first base, apparently because Jim Tracy just can't bear watching Hee Seop Choi strike out anymore... I know everybody can't have lineups like those of the Red Sox and Yankees. But we're talking about the Dodgers here. Big market, big crowds, big TV audience."

149 - -or withdrawal

You can try googling it.

In google, type:
-insert subject- site:dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com

Late by a minute and a half. D'oh.

151 - and to his opinion, I say "big deal"

150 Thanks a lot, that works.

I think Choi needs to grow some facial hair to crack the starting lineup. I mean look at the pattern: Repko-goatee, Phillips-goatee, Kent-'stache, Werth-goatee, Drew-goatee. The only mystery is the clean-shaven Izturis.

Interesting that most of the players brought in by sabermetric teams are in the "white guy with goatee/five o' clock shadow" mold. Almost every A's player looks exactly the same. They'd be the most uniform looking team in baseball if it wasn't for Colorado's white guy/shades team.

Someone should look into this.

#157: Don't forget the King of the 'Stache in left field.

157 Can't forget the Valentin 'stache. I guess Ledee's whatever that is on his upper lip doesn't count

Anyone want to try the LINEUP MATCH GAME today?

The 108-game pitching update is up. This will almost be the game chat thread.

157-I thought Valentin had a 'stache, but I could have sworn he was clean shaven in his last outing.

BTW, how you create links to previous posts?

Why not?

Izturis
Robles
Bradley
Kent
Valentin
Ledee
Perez
Navarro

From the 'Take It For What It's Worth' file...

Apparently a 'source' close to the front office has said that management is not happy with Tracy and alternatives are being looked at. Grady Little was the only name mentioned.

This was said to have been on WFAN in NY, but I did not hear it first hand so ...

Didn't have time to read the paper today, so I missed some DC tourguiding of actually Dodger-relevant material. First, there's a DePodesta interview piece in today's paper, written by Les Carpenter (not the guy I was praising yesterday).

http://tinyurl.com/bjxpr

Teaser: "'I warmed up in that bullpen out there in right field,' Dodgers General Manager Paul DePodesta said, waving his hands across [RFK] field."

And if you haven't had enough of bemoaning the Fate of Choi, the same guy also has a roundup piece in the post that addresses the question: "Are the Dodgers through with Hee-Seop Choi?"

http://tinyurl.com/bfr4f

I'll just say, I pass these along only because of their great relevance to issues aired on this site; neither has particularly impressive information or analysis.

161

Fogg is getting destroyed by lefties this year, so...

Izzy
Robles
Bradley
Kent
Sanez
Valetin
Navarro
Repko
Lowe

Repko and Saenz are meant as sarcasm from the initial comment, just so you know

12. I gotta take a break from the choi / tracy stuff though.

Can I get an amen, brother!!!

165 Confirmation would be really nice, as so many people here would start dancing. Whoever predicted yesterday that Tracy would be gone by Monday may be on to something

164 Editing my inital idea since Ledee played yesterday.

Izturis
Robles
Bradley
Kent
Valentin
Perez
Navarro
Repko
Lowe

Izzy
Robles
Bradley
Kent
Ledee
Valentin
Choi
Navarro
Lowe

The left-handed thing. And a little optimism.

Interesting game today. Wonder how Lowe will pitch with all this stuff going on.

163 you put the previous comment number in square brackets -- like this "[163]"

No one else is going to react to the idea of putting Grady Little and Jeff Weaver together on the same team?

171-LOL. No Phillips? I heard the swelling went down.

Even if Tracy is gone, we will not win the division.

Also, we won't have as many topics to discuss on this site.

175
Phillips is back? Noooooooo.

177-How do you make a link to a previous post? Do I have learn html?

[166]

the disturbing thing was the quote from tracy at the end of the choi discussion. did someone directly ask him about choi, and the answer was "you do what's best for your team"???

man, i hate jim tracy so much.

San Diego is batting Eric Young in the 3 spot. Even Tracy is smarter than that (or is he?)

Lefties kill Fogg, so let's play Saenz. I'm surprised Ledee got the start though

SS Izzy
3B Robles
CF Bradley
2B Kent
RF Ledee
1B Saenz
LF Valentin
C Navarro
P Lowe

An unnamed source from WFAN commenting on the Dodger manager situation? That sounds reliable.

In 162, substitute "also" for "almost."

That's the actual line up in 180. Pirates are:

CF Redman
3B Sanchez
LF Bay
RF Mackowiak
1B Eldred
2B Castillo
C Doumit
SS Wilson
P Fogg

177
Check 173.
Just put brackets outside of the number.
Like this: [ 173 ]
Excepw with no spaces.

You know what - this may be silly of me to say, but I'm not sure that the lineup contest doesn't amount as clutter. It really adds to the scrolling, and it's hard to make comparisons anyway. Rob's longstanding cry for threaded comments would certainly apply here.

According to WKRP Tracy is being offered a two year extension.

180, 183 - Oh, good. Never mind 185 then.

Duh. For the last few days I'm wondering why everyone is so excited that they can underlinie post numbers. I didn't realize it was a link, I though people were just tired of bold. I say again, Duh. Nice touch. Makes things alot eaiser.

184 Thanks.

180
So Tracy refuses to start Choi against a pitcher that gets killed by lefties? How exactly did Choi go from "platoon with Saenz" to "plays against soft-tossing righties with no weird arm angles" to "last player off the bench?"

Well, my moment of optimism is gone.

I think we are just going to have to accept the fact that as long as JT is managing, Choi will never start. Acceptance must begin.

190 He's still ahead of Edwards. However, if it were a lefty pitcher, Jeff Weaver is probably ahead of him

186 Tracy just got a two year extension last year.

Yeah... I think that's what today is.

193- Les Nessman is never wrong.

Why can't I fight this desire to watch the game. I know they suck. I know the lineup will be more depressing then 2 more years of Pres Bush. I know I will be wasting 3 valuable hours. I know at around 07:00 PM my wife will ask me how we lost tonight. I know I can't resist.

188

196 - Because baseball is a great game.

175 - at least that's what Carolyn Hughes said

196- TiVO the game and fast forward through the ads, that way you're only wasting 2 hours of your life!

196 Just to make it worse for you, it's three more years of President Bush.

(I know, I know...)

196- LOL, I've been going through the same thing everyday for a few months now. It kinda sucks but it's kinda cool. You know?

Choi is in an inescapable hole. If he struggles as a pinch hitter, tracy says, "see, he can't hit." If he succeeds, tracy says, "see, he's great in his new role." Barring another catastrophic injury of all 1B eligible players combined with a drastic fall out of the division race, Choi will never start. Going into acceptance...
...
...
now.

196 You're like me, man. I tell myself not to watch, but at game time, there I am on the couch, with my arms crossed, sour look on my face, and temples pulsing.

Bring on Grady Little. Dodger Stadium will resemble Jonestown, if it doesn't already.

205 - why, are the Dodgers selling KoolAid now?

instead of Cool-a-coos

196
well, there's always the first-place Los Angeles Angels as they struggle to cool off the hottest team in baseball, Tampa Ray's own Debbil Rays.

And yet, I'll be on the sofa too in about half an hour, watching two sub-.500 teams battle it out in front of about 6,000 half-dead fans.

[203]

YES. HAMMER--->NAIL. POW.

i mean, that's something i sort of intuitively grasped and knew, but you articulating it really strikes it home. it's almost diabolical.

203 Choi should really work on making his swing look pretty. That seems to impress managers and batting coaches. That would be the one thing he could learn from Raffy.

No interest in the pitching staff at all? (re: update to post above). I really think the pitchers are an underdiscussed element of the team.

Given that the nature of things tend to drastically change in opposition to my wants when I slide off the fence and take a stand (The Morris Principle), before the Supreme Being and this company, I am officially giving up on the 2005 Dodgers.

Hopefully the maxim will have immediate results starting tonight with a decent game by Lowe, a huge night for Choi, and a Tracy move that is not idiotic.

211 Why discuss pitching when you can discuss Choi? :)

In all seriousness (and admittedly without checking the stats carefully), I submit that our pitching problems can be traced to one item: giving up an abnormal amount of home runs, particularly to hitters that have no business hitting them.

211 - I, for one, am worn out worrying and fretting over the pitchers...your analysis is pretty right on, and there really isn't a lot of room on this...at least with the hitters, there is flexibility, but with the pitchers, we are kind of boxed into a corner

my reaction, no matter who comes into pitch lately, is "throw strikes, dammit!"...but they don't, and when they do, they groove it

I have always believed that pitching wins games and series...we don't have it

ah, i didn't notice the pitcher update.

broxton's not that wild, from what i saw. i felt he was close and maybe getting squeezed by the umps.

I gave up the day Drew went down, and then they closed to within four.

213 Yeah, especially to banjo hitter...

Off topic, where the hell does the term banjo hitter come from??

further, last year, great credit was given to shrewd managerial handling of team and clutch hitting and late inning rallies...but it was our pitching that kept us in the position for the heroics...and it was our pitching that failed us against the Cardinals in the division series...

217 - Deliverance

actually it may have something to do with Maury Wills...didn't he used to play one?

220 Just check wikipedia:

banjo hitter
A batter who lacks power. A banjo hitter usually hits bloop singles, often just past the infield dirt, and would have a low slugging percentage. The name has said to come from the twanging sound of the batter's swing like that of a banjo.

216 It's worth asking: how many games out do we have to be for each of us to reach "Acceptance"?

For me, it's pretty damn soon. Even a five-game deficit looks steep right now. I think this series will tell if we're remotely still in the hunt or not. If we can take 2 of 3, I'll hang on to a sliver of hope.

This is just an impression (pretty much everything I say is just an impression), but I sense that Colborn jumped the shark this year, and has lost control of all the issues on this pitching staff. I give Colborn a lot of credit for the revival of Nomo, Alvarez and Quantrill, and the development of Gagne and Mota, all of which made the '03 staff one of the toughest in baseball history.

But now he seems passive and befuddled as he tries to plug way too many leaks in the dike. He's got to figure out veterans like Lowe and Alvarez, while giving attention to newbies like Broxton, Schmoll, while turning Yhency into a reliable closer and Sanchez into a setup man. It's too much for the old coot. Too many challenges.

222 - yes, but if we lose 2 of 3, and the padres get swept so we pick up a game, do you stop believing then?

223 - and he walks funny

224. does arizona get swept too?

If Tracy is let go, should any of his coaches be retained?

226 - yes

225 LOL. Colborn has the funniest jog out to the mound in the bidness.

227 - that should be up to the new manager

Maybe Glenn "Dutch Boy" Hoffman?

If you believe Choi has improved, you have to keep Wallace.

223 Agree, Colburn definitely seems confused and very frustrated with the pitchers.

229 - his jog is like Werth's run...

Werth runs the way Horry did after hitting that big shot in the playoffs against Sacramento...only Werth does it all the time

211

I agree but what can you do with the pitchers? we don't have two extra starting pitchers sitting on the bench. I think we have two of the better hitters sitting on the bench everyday.

Lefties hit Fogg for .355 this season and Tracy still doesn't start Choi. The LA Times said they would expect Choi in the lineup tonight because of that stat. I hope they follow up with a question for Tracy.

234- It's faster than Phillip's "run".

Perez has been pretty good since he's come back from the arm injury. His numbers would be even better had Jimbo not left him in a couple games too long.
Since the all star break
26 2/3 24 H 2 HR 7 BB 16 K 3.38 ERA 1.16 WHIP

Jeff Weaver's numbers have been hurt more than any other starting pitcher on the Dodgers by Jimbo's managing. Weaver stays in the game until he gets hammered.

And I'll end my post with the customary slogan, Fire Jimbo!

Just logged on and saw the lineup. haha @ Choi not starting with a RHP that gets killed by lefties. I guess Choi is just too valuable as a left handed pinch hitter coming off the bench to ever start him. vr, Xei

Jon thanks for the update on the pitchers. Good to see Penny performing but I was surprised to see that he's been this good. The rest of the staff is sad. Weaver has been hot but since he's headed for free agency that means we head into next year with one above average pitcher.
Face it, right now were a crappy team from top to bottom. Thank goodness Depo traded for Penny but I sure wish he'd closed the purse strings when pursuing Lowe and OP. 1000's of words were spent by Depo supporters trying to come up with some reason why he spent so much money on one of the worse starters in the AL last year. In this case it looks like he struck out and if Lowe is lousy in his 1st year, think how it will look in year 4 when were paying him 11 million to be a setup man. Bowden has done a better job of piecing together a bullpen then Depo has. All in all a very disapointing year for me at every level. I had hoped that E Jackson would have forced his way into the rotation and that by now Joel Guzman would be ready to play 3b. Instead our ML team has crapped out and while our prospects continue to flourish none have proven ready to step up and help the big club and Depo for good or bad refused to trade for help.

224 For me, it's less about what happens with the Padres and/or D-Backs and more about what the Dodgers are able to do.

I've accepted that a .500 (or slightly under) team can win the West. But the Dodgers still have to play better than .500 to reach that point -- and over the last couple of months (with a few brief exceptions) we haven't been able to do so.

So, with your posited scenario, I'd take the bitter road of thinking we should be 3 out instead of 4. :)

Of course, let's make this insanely easy for Fogg

Who has been the most disappointing this year?

Starting Pitcher: Lowe (7-11)?
Relief Pitcher: Brazoban (2-6), Alvarez (1-4)?

Combined (10-21).

If we only won about half of these (16-15) we would be in 1st place?

Scott Van Slyke, son of Andy, went 3-4 with 2 homers,a double, and 8 RBIs for the GCL Dodgers. I liked him when we drafted him, but he was heavily committed to some school. A small steal in round 15 or whenever we took him

At least the Pirates were as nice to Lowe as the Dodgers were to Fogg

Is any player on either team gonna take a pitch at some point?

I'm not as big on Choi as some of you, but even I can't believe Choi didn't get the start over Olmedo given Fogg's record against lefties.

At least we won't be shut out today.

245- Guess you missed Robles.

Thank you, Mr. Kent, Mr. Professional Hitter.

Kent needs to stop the leadoff homers in the second. Or better yet, Izzy, Robles, and Bradley should get on base

Padres up 1-0 on a Sweeney single

Dang, Ledee just missed that

atleast no Dodger struck out in the first inning. That's an improvement over last nights fiasco. vr, Xei

God bless ye Jeff Kent

Remember earlier this season there was a stretch of games where all runs scored were the result of HR's (I think they were all solo HR's).

I think we're in a similar "rut" now...

245- My tongue was firmly in cheek. ;)

So now Kent has hit 20 straight homers in what, 9 straight seasons as a second baseman?

Saenz was the far better choice, Jim

229 - hahah he totally does. like he's perpetually constipated or something.

226 - in that case i'll think about it :)

re: 253 it's not so much a rut as our manager not placing better hitters in the 1, 2, and 6 spot.

funny, left handed hitters are the panaceia against Fogg, and they are 0 for 6 so far...its the righty who hits the homer...

At least Lowe gave it up to the guy who's suppose to hit them, first major league homer or not

259 0-5. Saenz struck out

259. yeah, but even izturis and robles were able to hit really long fly balls, and ledee JUST missed a homer.

Derek Lowe apparently believes chicks dig the longball...

Lowe has lost the strike zone. Castillo was just nice

Any MLB Extra Innings viewers out there? This is the first FSN2 game that I know of that is not on their schedule. I wonder if it is because of the matchup...

259

that should have been a comment in the 7th inning. do you have the time to stick around?

265 I am, but I'm local so they're all blacked out

Padres: I don't want the NL West, you take it.
D'Backs: No, I insist, you take it.

lather, rinse, repeat.

So why don't we just send Choi down to triple A. At least he will play.

Padres walked Guzman with Wilson on, then Hernandez singled them both in (there was an error), 2-1 Nats

269 - Choi is the anti-beloved, in a Kafkaesque hell. He cannot be sent down to AAA because he is not allowed to play. If he plays in AAA, he might get better. If he gets better, he might have to play. Therefore, he cannot be allowed to play.

I have tried to apply for his job.

Robles + Izturis = 7 steals in 20 attempts. Wow.

And yet they keep trying.

Fogg's getting away with a lot of pitches up in the zone thus far. I think we'll score 4 by the 7th inning.

Jayson Stark devotes his Useless Information Column to the NL West:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2125778

Mark Sweeney is getting really pesky, just drove in his second run to tie it

Now I can't complain about Choi.

274 Try by this inning

screw Choi. Yeah Tracy (I'm easily swayed)

That was impressive. The Dodgers and Pirates are only 2.5 games apart, functionally about the same team.

Robles is not your typical fast utility player. He barely looks average to me so why is he ever attempting to steal. Izzy is just a crappy basestealer. Now Antonio Perez is another steals. He's got 8 in limited at bats.

Now tell me why we didn't trade Saenz to an AL team?

Makes you wish we were an AL team huh Brendan? =) Gameday is stuck for me, was that a 3-run HR?

282 That it was. A no-doubt-about-it to left

so much for Fogg being bad against left handers

282 - with a DH, the Dodgers could keep Saenz and/or A. Perez in the lineup.

What kind of crazy offseason will the Dodgers have, I wonder. So much to do.

283 - Though you couldn't tell by the reaction in this room.

Sheesh, tough crowd. Just b/c we want Choi to play doesn't mean we should take it out on Saenz.

284 Lefties tend to hit him harder, but Fogg is not very good period.

This just continues to illustrate how overloaded we are at first base.

Nice. 3-run homer by Saenz. Just because I want Choi to play doesn't mean I wish ill will on Saenz. Or at least, I'm trying...

giles next yr will be what kent is this year.

therefore, if you combine giles and kent, you will have a better team next year.

trust me i did all the math..

Khalil Greene just popped up a pitch with the bases loaded and 2 outs.

288 - banish the hitting pitcher! Demand the DH in the NL!

Aside from the HR, Lowe seems to be holding his own tonight.. We obviously have some ways to go, but regardless..

look at this sweet find:
http://www.mobilebaybears.com/webcam.asp

baybears webcame.

billingsley vs carillo, should start soon.

Finally Navarro gets a hit. Hopefully it will give him so more confidence

292
As a mercy rule to us NL Westers, MLB should give all NL West teams use of the DH, to balance things out. Or preferably, just to the Dodgers.

Memo to Tracy: pitchers can and should bunt. It's the other guys we don't like bunting

Jimbo does it again!

abreu with a leadoff triple!!

this cam angle is neato.

yet another head scratcher.

Lowe tried to bunt.. he just got to two strikes too quickly.

2 games at the same time. Can Dodger Thoughts handle it?

Is Guzman hurt badly? He hasn't played in awhile. On the DL maybe?

they need to go back to the behind the backstop cam. that cam angle was nice.

bunt with two strikes. Still better odds that it'll work than Lowe actually getting a hit.

OMG they made laroche bunt....

WTF is up with the dodger org?!?!?

297**Memo to Tracy: pitchers can and should bunt.

Apparently they can't and should bunt. If the guy can't bunt and the guy can't hit, not much Tracy or anyone can do except tell him not to lift the bat off his shoulder.

306 - It's like Scientology. Once you're in, you're in for life. Call it the indoctrination ceremony.

laroche, the cleanup hitter for the suns, just bunted in the first inning with runners on first and second with no outs...

The only difference is if Loney walks, Meadows is up. That line up is just crammed full of scary hitters. Only Garcia really wouldn't scare me as a pitcher (maybe Ruggiano)

309 New mandate to rest of Dodger organization:

Make sure ALL your players learn how to bunt before they come up to majors.

Kent had no business throwing that

Dave Roberts just hit it out at RFK. That's one heck of pitching park, eh Guillen? 3-2 Padres

312 Yes bit Old Maid needs to save the throw and give up the base hit. One of the problems of have no 1 basemen while having too many at the same time.

Kent might set new career high (21) for errors this year.

Is there a feed for the Suns game? If so, can someone tell me what it is, Thanks.

Ledee got that one. Now a third of our line up has hit em

That means we have 11 runs in the last 4 games, all off 8 different homers

What's with the HRs? Since we can't put base hits together, is everyone trying to hit HRs?

The most frequently used word in the Pirate dugout tonight?

Aarrgh.

Phillips hand was awfully swolen, I don't think he's coming back too soon. It'll be interesting to see who catches on Sunday

Krazy Glue's come off Lowe's thumb.

320 - that's the most frequently used word in the Pirates dugout every night.

Guess Krazy Glue is not illegal substance?

322 - Too late for an emergency micturation?

AARR, these lubber Dodgers be keelhauling us.

323 Our dugout too.

Haven't seen Bradley quiet the crowd in awhile

Aarr, we almost got one there mates.

Tracy should replace Lowe for 7th.

There's just got to be something wrong with Steiner's depth perception.

Padres scored another run, 4-2 Pads

I recommend Schmoll or Broxton for 7th.

Aarr, me thinks that Steiner there's been hittin the grog too much.

Can't expect Padres to keep losing. It's matter of time before they start winning half of their games.

333 Broxton in the pen

Hope we don't see Sanchez tonight.

Or Carrara or Alvarez...

Choi may be used as a decoy

Big decision time. BUNT?

that was one of the scrappiest bunts ever.

The Jason Repko Bunting Academy is now open for business.

And somewhere in Utah, Steve is imploding.

We could be very close to scoring a run without the aid of a homer

I love those kinds of bunts. Pinch hit for Robles with Perez!

Repko is probably our best bunter. He should try bunting for hits at least once a game.

Let's blow this game open now to give our relievers some extra slack.

Why do people say we are overloaded at first base? At the begining of the season we had 2 first basemen, Hee Sop Choi and Olmedo Saenz. One can't play every day beacause he is too old and is mediocre agaisnt right handed pitching. The other is young, and had a percieved weakness against left handed pitching. Unforntunately Jim Tracy doesn't like the hand he is dealt and decided to turn 3 other players on the opening day roster into first basemen. Jason Grabowski, Jeff Kent, and Jason Philips. All of these options are ridiculuos because they play better elswhere (and would prefer to)... Kent at 2nd, Philips behind the plate, and Gabowski in Vegas. just because or stupid manager says we are overloaded at first doesn't make it true.

Also regarding Choi Someone in the last thread mentioned that Wallach doubted whether Choi would ever be an effective Maajor league hitter. Considering how Choi has an 800+ OPS I thought this was a joke. Wallach for the record had an 800+ OPS THREE times in 17 seasons.

Finally I would like to propose a Dodger Thoughts Contest to the poster who can correctly guess the next start for HEE Sop Choi.

Like stealing, nothing wrong with bunting as long as you're very good at it.

Did that just happen?

Woody Williams just walked in a run just as Izzy hit that single. 4-3 Pads, but Nats have the bases loaded with only 1 out

Would Tracy have bunted if it was Bradley instead of Repko?

Izzy is clutch

Let's keep it going Robles.

Castilla popped out on the first pitch, but then Bennett singled in 2 runs, 5-4 Nats

Every Dodger position in the lineup has a hit, let's keep some of this for tomorrow against Duke

bradley just swung and missed on the exact same pitch three straight times, swinging for the fences each time. tsk, tsk.

Billingsley sure doesn't look good in the boxscore, any better in action to those watching?

What is this thing called "hitting"?

[348] april 4, 2006

Now that we have big enough lead, Tracy can even use Carrara.

360 - Tracy can even use Erickson.

Broxton up.

Geez every starter strikes out last night and every starter tonigh gets a hit and scores a run. Can we find the middle. Or can we paly the Buc's every night?

[359] Vishal has April 4, 2006... a fine choice... I'll keep track of subsequent guesses.

My guess August 25 2005.

98 mph is nice, but let's keep it near the strike zone

Broxton has as big an ass as Steiner. That one big boy.

Broxton v. Ward. Talk about big asses.

Broxton needs some control. There sure haven't been many strikes

Plunk Ward just because, please

Last inning, I started feeling sorry for the Bucs. This game has gotten out of hand.

Does Broxton have a history of control problems in the minors?

Good thing we got lot of runs to work with.

I hate hate hate that guy

LAT knows how to hold a grudge. I like that.

I like Broxton, but he needs something resembling control if he wants to succeed

100 yd dash between Old Maid, Jason Phillips and Daryl Ward. I still say Phillips loses. (Maybe not if the other two can't run 100 yards.)

This game better not turn into a save situation.

You don't really get a sense of how big Broxton is until you see the ball in his hand, looking like a tic-tac.

That "throwing error by Bradley" is completely Saenz' fault, btw.

Still waiting for those great young players to show up... ha-ha-only-serious...

Come on Bull, strike out the side!!!

374 Yes I do. But when he gets a POS hit like that and then we give him second, I am reminded just how much I dislike him.

On the radio side they said the pressbox is 10 stories high. On TV, 12 stories. Somebody's on the pipe...

381 - ah, the Krispy Kreme brothers - Ward and Coomer.

If only Broxton could get into this mode quicker.

382. Jim are you listening to Charlie, Steve, Rick and Al at the same time? Cause that can lead to a embolism.

Frank Robinson sure hates pinch hitters, Joey Eischen just led off the bottom of the 6th

Broxton maintains 9.00 ERA and 2K per inning.

Lyons says this inning has been 45 minutes. At least we are on the winning side of the inning

When Broxton can find his control at the beginning of each inning, he's going to mow down hitters like there's no tomorrow

387 Nope. He got Schmoll out of the 8th in Washington, so his ERA is 8.10. Although his K rate is still Gagne-esque. As soon as he does something about the walks--wow

387 - I think this is DePodesta sneering at me: see, I told you they weren't ready...

What are the Pirates doing stealing bases down by 7. We need to plunk Wilson next time he comes up.

391 Trial by fire. What have we got to lose?

That was a cheap SB. Broxton wasn't holding him on, and Navarro had no plans to throw him out

Is Carrara warming up?

well billingsley does have 8 ks.

guzman replaces laroche. laroche fouled a ball off his ankle and left the game.

Let's use Carrara so we won't have to see him for a week.

390 - isn't that what Verne Ruhle says in Cincinnati about every last pitcher on their staff?

I still prefer Broxton to Carrara or Alvarez.

Pods have 13 hits and 4 runs.
Nats have 4 hits and 5 runs.

Whoever said baseball was fair?

Scareduck, keep it up. You keep me laughing so hard that I have hard time concentrating on this game. Really enjoy your site too. :)

How is it that Dessens has become our clean up guy?

401 - thanks.

Rob, you should replace Lyons. Your humor is much more witty and intelligent.

carrara should be in now, not dessens

Dessens probably needs the work. If he keeps this up, Carrara will come in.

Tracy tries to justify using Dessens last night in a situation that made no sense:

"That's why we used Dessens last night, even though it was for a third of an inning. After the damage had taken place in Sanchez's case, you bring Dessens out. If by some chance you miraculously end up scoring seven runs off a guy who was looking like you might not get any, which ended up being the case -- you have a pitcher back there that can still pitch. That's why we could use Dessens there."

Who wants to explain that to me?

We are dangerously approaching save situation (Braz).

We really don't need a save situation

Cue "Merry Go Round Broke Down".

repko has a hole in his glove. and its bigger than the hole in his swing.

For those of us not watching, what did Repko do?

407 - easy. Tracy has a brain tumor.

What's going on with Repko? That's his 6th error and he's supposed to be our best defensive outfielder.

Dessens must be trying to set up a save situation as his new role (setup) dictates now.

412 - blew a routine popup in shallow left. Fell right off his glove.

Repko needs to get an eye exam.

Schmoll did exactly was he was suppose to. Too bad Duffy has that speed

No, Scareduck, your position has not been that the Dodgers' minor league talent "isn't ready," but that it is not very talented at all, otherwise the players would be in the majors. It is people like myself who have been telling YOU that we have a lot of talent in the minors but lack of MLB readiness is the issue. Broxton is only 21, and he was skipped past Triple A in part because people like yourself are impatient. In 19 innings pitched in relief in Double A, Broxton struck out 28 and walked only 4, so he does not have "control problems," but a whole three innings into his big league career, he is clearly having problems with nerves performing on the big stage, and seems to need time to settle down every time he comes in. That will change with experience.

We sure like to make it entertaining. No lead is too safe this year.

I'm very glad this Pirates team doesn't have Stargell, Parker, Madlock and Sanguillen on it, or we'd be in a heap of trouble with this number of baserunners.

Are we going to see Braz in the 9th? Is it a save situation yet.

Sure don't want to mess up Braz chances for ROY as Tracy indicated.

loney is heating up.

2-3 with a 2b tonight. hes BA is probably above .290 now

383

But Coomer is an All-Star.

421- It was when Schmoll came in, but won't be for Braz, if he does.

If Loney turns out anything close to John Olerud, I'll be very happy.

422 Should be .291

Eric Young flaired a blooper to right, and Damien Jackson scored from second, 5-5 tie. Stanton for Giles. Quantrill and Otsuka in the Pads pen, I'm hoping for the former rather than the latter

418 - See 391 and lose the attitude. I have never said the Dodgers system is talent-free, I've said they're badly overrated and until some guys come up and start producing, claims of the Dodgers system being "loaded" are pure speculation. In any case, getting Andy LaRoche to bunt with RISP scares me that they're ruining the kids in the minors anyway, i.e., Tracy's garbage maneuvering is gospel at the layers below.

As to his walks, I could care less what you want to call it; Broxton has walked as one fewer than he has struck out so far. Sure, small sample size, but he needs to settle down. One earned run per inning isn't gonna cut it in the show.

the second best pitching prospect in baseball had a good outing today

6IP 5H 2ER 1bb 11K 1hr

he just made one mistake in the first inning.

Why let Schmoll hit when you could give Choi or Perez an AB? Even one AB can help them keep their focus, timing, etc.

time for a deep breath. In a sense, all prospect evaluations could be dismissed as "pure speculation" until they perform at the big league level. However, scouts and statistics do tend to show which prospects are likely to succeed in the show. I think most scouts and stats show more likely-to-succeed players in the Dodgers organization than any other, thus the proper use of a loaded system.

As for Broxton, he's 3 years removed from high school. We agree he needs to settle down, but I agree it's due to nerves and not an overall inability to throw strikes consistently.

428 who's the best?

429 Tracy didn't want Perez or Choi to hit HR to show him up for not starting them.

re: 429 Tracy has even less confidence in his bullpen than we do.

who's the best?

well according to BA, felix hernandez of the mariners is the best, billz is the second.

personally, i would put billz behind felix and probably liriano.

I've said they're badly overrated and until some guys come up and start producing, claims of the Dodgers system being "loaded" are pure speculation.

speculation by whom? by biased fans? not really. unbiased publications like baseball america and prospect analysts like john sickels all rave about the prospects in the system. SO i dont understand your point on "speculation". With that logica, every prospect in baseball is "speculation" then.

429 Tracy wanted to give Schmoll the save, simple as that

Cordero hasn't done much. Padres have taken the lead, and the only out was Wilkerson fooling Loretta

kuo gives up his first career AA homerun.

436 And now we have a second reliever with ERA under 4.

Is Schmoll our new closer?

I wouldn't mind trying Schmoll as our closer since Braz has been so inconsistent.

Hoffman in to pitch. Wilkerson-Vidro-Guillen-Johnson due up, Nats down 6-5

young seems to like the PCL. hes 2-3 with a bb and 2b tonight. batting .417 so far.

Padres win, Vidro managed a single, but nothing else. Guillen had no business playing, he looked hurt. If Church plays, it could easily be a different game

Hope we didn't use up all our runs for this week today.

Tomorrow's opposing pitcher Zach Duke looks real tough (4-0 0.92 ERA).

O Perez needs to step up and give us one his near no-hitters.

If he wants an offense to no hit, the Pirates is it. If you remember back to '03, Willis was infallible until the Dodgers came to town, let's hope it works this time as well

Zach Duke is pitching way over his head and it would be nice if the "scrubbers" can humble him a little tomorrow.

Broxton has pitched 3 innings and he's getting comments on his control. You guys are goofy. I don't mind bringing the farm boy up early but I sure wouldn't use him in high leverage innings until he's got his feet wet. Today was a perfect day to send out him out there. As his confidence builds then give him tougher chances. JMO

There's something I didn't realize, Perez was pitching when we clobbered Willis to bring him down to earth. Izzy had a good game that day, as did everyone but Jason Romano. That was back when we had Rickey, at least he could walk...

Prospect watch-far off on the horizon variety.Andy Van Slyke's son,Scott in rookie Gulf Coast League hit two homers,drove in eight runs and threw out a runner at home.
Delwyn Young hitting .417 at AAA.
I have been sounding Loney's horn for months.He is a solid ballplayer,the answer longterm at first base.Take it to the bank.

i wonder what it could cost to trade for joey gathright in the offseason.

tampas OF
crawford
gomes
huff
baldelli
delmon young
elijah dukes
joey gathright

i assume huff will be traded. gathright would probably be traded too since him and crawford are basically the same type of player.

gathright would be a very exciting player and could solve our lead off problems because he could actually get on base.

another Bizarro world Dodger, Aubrey Huff, just whacked a home run vs. the Halos. Like the rest of the Rays, he's been hitting a ton since the AllStar break. He's someone I hope DePo looks at in August-though I doubt he'd survive waivers-or the end of the year when he might be arb-eligible.

449 was happy that we signed him. He could be like LaRoche, a gamble on draft day that pays off after everyone was scared off that he would go to college.

If Lamarr was easy to trade with the Dodgers should already have Huff as he would have been a perfect fit for this team. Gathright has the kind of speed that changes games but he learned how to play outfield like Roger Cedeno and could have the same kind of career. Maybe with time he'll learn how to play the outfield unlike Cedeno but I doubt it. Tampa has an exciting core of young players with very high upside. I would not be adverse to trading our pitching prospects for their hitting prospects as long as it is not Elijah Dukes. Don't need the headache.

Not suprised that D Young is liking Vegas. He's a banger whose bat is the most ready to help the big team.

dzzrtRatt was that you saying something nice about the Devilrays?

I generally say nice things about the Devil Rays. I have a soft spot for unsuccessful expansion franchises. My first baseball crush was on the Mets (I lived in the NY area), beginning in 1964. But also, I've noticed they are stockpiling a bunch of good prospects and young players, and keep waiting to see if they'll ever break out. It would be cool to see the Yankees finish behind them some day. It might happen next year. Their ownership, front office and stadium are all major albatrosses, however.

DBacks-Rockies were tied going into the 7th 1-1. Rockies put themselves up, but a Tracy homer and Clayton double put the DBacks up 4-2. In the 8th, Matt Holliday just homered off Aquino to tie it 4-4. Good game, and now that they're in the bullpens, it's anyones game. Holliday's homer was a broken bat homer...

DT Over/Under Challenge Playoff Update:

Best two out of three...(Semi Finals)
8/5, Lowe vs Pirates (6-IPs)
8/6, Perez vs Pirates
8/7, Weaver vs Pirates
.........................
Colorado Blue leads 1-0
Colorado Blue: 5 (W) 6
Joekings: NA
.........................
Xeifrank leads 1-0
Xeifrank: 6-2/3 (W) 6
Howard: 7 6-1/3
.........................
Consolation Game: Louis leads 1-0
Louis in SF: 5-1/3 (W)
CT Bum: 6-2/3
.........................
Standings...
1-Joekings 8-4-1
2-Howard 8-7-2
3-Xeifrank 8-7-2
4-Colorado Blue 8-9-0
5x-Louis in SF 5-6-2
6x-CT Bum 6-8-3
x = eliminated.

Great hitting and pitching summaries by Jon today. What a great post and obviously alot of hard work was put into it. Thanks!
vr, Xei

Cormier threw away a bunted ball allowing a run to score, 5-4 Rockies, and there's no outs

Not doing all the math to prove it, but I think it is quite possible for the NL West champ to have fewer than 81 wins.

The key is that the Rockies have the most intradivision games left. They have 37 as I type (36 games when it's over).

So they can actually play pretty well against the rest of the division and put the other four teams under .500 in intradivision games.

The Giants have 26 intradivision games to play, Arizona has 27 (soon to be 26), the Dodgers have 28 and the Padres have 29.

However, whoever is in first with a week left will need to be already under .500 most likely because Colorado finishes up the season playing out of the division. They finish up at Atlanta and New York.

Rockies finished off the DBacks 6-4. The only team we gained a game on was the DBacks, everyone else won

OT, but big Amtrak vs Dump Truck train crash just down the road from where I live. Channel 9 and 11 helicopters making lots of noise and bright lights in the area, sirens going off non stop. Doesn't look good for the dump truck. vr, Xei

452- Roger Cedeno bad? I really doubt it though I haven't seen him play much. I doubt Depo would be interested considering that we already have a good center fielder. Also Depo doesn't seem to like speedsters with no power.

Dump truck vs. train is comparable to Sonny Bono vs. tree.

459

wow, that's good and horrifying to know.

364 - Wow, 8-25-2005 will be exactly TEN YEARS since my favorite Dodger game of all time. First time I tried to keep a scorecard at a game, I made it 'til about the third inning. Maybe we can get a Callback on that one sometime? :-D

btw, Broxton has nothing on Jeff Juden until he hits a grand slam...and/or I get Broxton's autograph!

Ishii has been optioned to AAA

466 - Wow... That Phillips trade just keeps getting better and better, eh?

>Ducks rotten fruit<

I still endorse the Ishii-Phillips trade 100 percent.

I still endorse the Ishii-Phillips trade, too. It's not Phillips' fault Tracy starts him at 1B so his feelings don't get hurt.

Concur with 468 & 469. We needed a catcher desperately and Phillips makes for an adequate bridge till our young `uns are ready. Once they are ready, Phillips will be an excellent back-up. And all of this at a reasonable price.

Besides, I would have been happy even if we'd given Ishii away for free. A man's nerves can only take so much.

Quietest...dodgerthoughts....day....everrr...