The following is a repost from two posts ago that is actually more relevant here:

There is so much unsupported ramble in this article its maddening. Let me go ahead and try to support that claim:

That doesn't even count the four players on the disabled list J.D. Drew, Jose Valentin, Paul Bako and Kelly Wunsch whom DePodesta signed as free agents from other clubs.

Jose Valentin is currently on the DL?

That jumps to six if you count Adrian Beltre and Steve Finley, who have been disappointments for Seattle and the Angels, respectively.

...is followed by...

Finley was allowed to walk after the season.

...and...

The Dodgers this season have been about what they would have been last year without Beltre in the middle of the order.

So DePo should've manufactured a Beltre V 2004? I can see that...

Hee-Seop Choi, whom DePodesta acquired from Florida to be the Dodgers' power-hitting first baseman of the future, is maddeningly inconsistent and has been largely relegated to a pinch-hitting role.

A little brainstorming might lead to the possibility that his inconsistency stems from his role... hmmm!

Derek Lowe, despite a 3.95 ERA, has shown a tendency to crumble in difficult situations, a big reason why he is 8-11.

Ahh but earlier he said...

...Penny has a sub-.500 record, due mostly to a lack of run support.

Well according to ESPN, Lowe actually does have more run support... by 0.01 run per game. Penny 5.08, Lowe 5.09

The biggest bust of all, though, has been Drew, who has missed the past month with a broken left wrist.

Wonder if the Daily News would call Jackson a bust if he got hit on the wrist by a ball and couldn't write his columns?

Even before that, he was far too passive at the plate for a No. 3 hitter.

He had/has the highest OPS on the team.

It is worth noting Boras never could have wrangled such a generous contract for Drew anywhere else, and he couldn't have gotten it from the Dodgers had Beltre, also a Boras client, re-signed with the club.

Is that anything more than speculation?

The Daily News must've needed a quick filler or something, because this article was absurd.

Yeah, that was one of the worst articles I've read written about the Dodgers/DePodesta. I believe it was a serious attempt to analyze Depo's performance, not a tongue and cheek "google boy" article we might see from Plaschke or Simers at the Times. Atleast those two don't even make attempts at logic, but Jackson's article was a hack job to say the least. If you are going to write about Depo's track record you should atleast do a "little" bit of research first. There are a few things he can be dinged for, but definitely not something like the Drew signing. What really raised a red flag for me is when Jason Phillips name was mentioned in the same breath as Kent's as the team MVP, due to Phillips high RBI total for a catcher.
?????? vr, Xei

Random Dodger game callback

August 9. 1968

In the Year of the Pitcher, a little used player named Ricardo Joseph homered and singled and drove in all three runs as the Phillies defeated the Dodgers, 3-2, before a crowd of about 15,000 at Dodger Stadium. The Dodgers fell to 51-64 on the season and were in ninth place, 24 games behind the first place Cardinals.

The Dodgers scored their only runs in the first inning when first baseman Ken Boyer hit a 2-run homer off of Phillies starter Chris Short. The Dodgers got three hits in the fourth, but couldn't score as a caught stealing and a double play spoiled the inning.

In the fifth, Joseph, filling in for Bill White at first base, hit his second home run of the year to make it 2-1. Joseph hit just 13 in his career.

In the seventh, the Phillies started their meager rally. Shortstop Roberto Pena led off with a single. Richie (using 1968 parlance) Allen then hit what looked to be a double play ball to Dodger shortstop Zoilo Versalles, but Versalles booted it for an error. Claude Osteen then walked Don Lock to load the bases. Manager Walter Alston took out Osteen in favor of Jim Brewer.

Brewer faced Joseph, and the young Dominican singled to left to score Pena and Allen to make it 3-2. Brewer got out of the inning without any further damage.

Short and reliever Gary Wagner were able to shut out the Dodgers for the final three innings to end the game.

The Dodgers and Phillies would both finish the 1968 season with 76-86 records and tied for eighth place, 21 games behind the Cardinals. The Dodgers finished with a National League worst 470 runs for the year. In a season where the average NL team scored 3.43 runs a game, the Dodgers averaged just 2.90. The league batting average was .243 and the Dodgers batted .230 as a team.

There were several players on the 1968 Dodgers who were famous at one point, but certainly weren't good anymore. Boyer won the NL MVP in 1964, but by 1968, he was 37 years old and would play in just 83 games. Versalles won the AL MVP in 1965, but his one season with the Dodgers saw him hit .196. Former Cleveland slugger Rocky Colavito played in 40 games and hit .204. Len Gabrielson led the Dodgers with 10 home runs. And Tom Haller led the team in RBI with 53.

The Dodgers, as expected, had outstanding pitching and the staff had a 2.69 ERA. Don Drysdale was 14-12 with a 2.15 ERA, helped in no small part by his then record 58-inning shutout streak. Bill Singer went 13-17 with a 2.88 ERA. Claude Osteen was 12-18 with a 3.09 ERA and Don Sutton was 11-15 with a 2.60 ERA. Brewer saved 14 games.

Some other players who stopped by in 1968 were Mudcat Grant, who pitched in 37 games; Jack Billingham, who pitched in 50 games in his rookie season, but was not protected in the expansion draft and was taken by Montreal; and Vicente Romo, who pitched in one game for the Dodgers and then would return to pitch again for the team in 1982.

The Dodgers were a truly awful team in 1968, but during the amateur drafts (there were two held each year for the first 20 odd years of the draft) that year they chose Davey Lopes, Bobby Valentine, Bill Buckner, Tom Paciorek, Joe Ferguson, Doyle Alexander, Steve Garvey, and Ron Cey among others.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

There already has been some discussion about the Jackson article in the Scully thread and there is a long thread on it at Baseball Primer.

Regarding Edwin Jackson:

I believe the belief he was 'brought up too fast' is misguided. EJ's hasnt sucked the last 2 years because of confidence. Its because he doesnt throw as hard. EJ only throws in the low 90's now, from all reports I read. When he was brought up 2 years ago, he threw 96-98. Thats the difference. I dont think EJ will ever as good as then. He'll have to learn and master some other pitches.

Sir Edwin was throwing hard yesterday.

What has his velocity been? I think the main reason he was getting bombed the last 2 years is because hitters can usually hit a 92MPH mistake. Most cant hit 98MPH mistakes.

I'll reserve judgement on EJ until I know his velocity.

Check out post 156 on the "Crossing My Tease, Dotting My Eyes" Post.

According to natepurcell,
"jackson just struck out the side. he look amazing. his slider is filthy, his fast reached 95 on the gun, which equals to 98-99 mph."

The Dodgers had a shortstop named Zolio Versalles. That is a great name. And they guy was a former league (other league) MVP? Who knew.

9 - Zolio was kind of a bigtime player in the A.L. Part of the Frank Robinson parade of castoffs to the Dodgers. Bob, I'm sure, could elaborate.

4 - I saw the discussion here; I just couldn't participate. As for Primer, I'm gonna be honest with you all - I've been disappointed (on my way to acceptance) at how Primer treats blogs. For a site that is supposed to be progressive, Primer only seems interested in discussing mainstream articles of any level of merit and not at all interested in the kind of discussion we have here.

I had the debate on Primer once before but gave up. They like to keep tabs on what the mainstream press is writing, which is fine. But they seem remarkably uninterested in highlighting some great blogwork - and I'm not at all just talking about DT.

Speaking of misguided criticism - I read a poster over at Athletics Nation who claimed that had the Dodgers had the team this year that they did before DePo arrived, they would be running away with the NL West this year.

I'd enumerate all the ways in which this is wrong, but frankly don't have the energy. Except to say that Alex Cora may be the most overrated utility player ever.

Back when I was still posting articles at Primer fairly regularly, I used to make it a point to post Dodger Thoughts entries. Looks like maybe I need to again...

I think most of Primer's problem is the readership is more interested in criticizing bad articles than reading good ones.

9 Zoilo's considered one of the least deserving MVPs. He had a .273/.319/.462 line, easily the best of his career, along with 19 homers, 77 RBIs, 27 SBs, and 122 Ks.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/versazo01.shtml

The '65 voting:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1965.shtml#ALmvp

I agree that this Daily News article is absurd. One of my favorite lines not covered above is where Tony Jackson writes, "Phillips' inability to throw out runners allowed opposing clubs to run wild until DePodesta finally called up catching prospect Dioner Navarro on July 29 so manager Jim Tracy could move Phillips to first base."

It's that "so" and the causality assumed in it that's really laughable. Did DePo want Phillips at first base? Quite a claim.

Re: RISP, I'm all for never acknowledging the statistic again. First, there's little or no proof any ability to hit in that situation even exists. And second, you simply can't put any stock in it because it's always going to have a small sample size. But then again, people like certain writers at the times or Jim Tracy are going to pick who they want to play and find some way to back it up. If Choi was hitting with RISP and Phillips wouldn't, I'm sure we wouldn't hear anything about it.

I was excited about getting Zoilo Versailles. He was on the Twins 1965 world series team. And to an eleven year old kid, it seemed like a dream pickup. What a disappointment!

12 - Yep, Eric was a patron. And again, I'm not just talking about DT. If your second paragraph is true, that's kind of a shame. Pointing out other people's errors is fine, but actually learning something new is a little better, isn't it?

Ah, Bobby Valentine!

I was living in Stamford, Connecticut in the late 1960s, and Bobby Valentine was the biggest name in sports in town. He was the star running back at Rippowam High, the best hitter on the baseball team, and he might've even lettered in basketball too. But I saw him play football, and it was unbelievable. He reminded me of OJ Simpson, who was a USC star at the time. No one could stop him; he ripped one long run after another, speed and power combined. I've never seen such a mismatch as Bobby Valentine vs. the offensive line of the other team, whoever they were.

I was thrilled when he got drafted by the Dodgers right before my family moved to California. I remember all the hype about him, and I remember that injury clearly. A potentially great player was cut down. Plus I would never be able to tell people that I saw a future Hall of Famer play halfback in Stamford, Connecticut.

What I don't recall is, why did the Dodgers let him go to Anaheim? For some reason, I thought he was injured before the trade, but this story has it that he was with Anaheim when the big injury happened. Were there two injuries? It's such a footnote to a footnote, I don't expect anyone to know, but in case anyone does...

11
Except to say that Alex Cora may be the most overrated utility player ever.

But what about Cora's baseball savvy?

I read a poster over at Athletics Nation who claimed that had the Dodgers had the team this year that they did before DePo arrived, they would be running away with the NL West this year.

Even if that's true, that's not saying much.

20 Is that a shot at Athletics Nation or the NL West? Either way, I'll agree.

The scariest part is this Tony Jackson column got this intro from Mike Emeigh at Primer:

"Jackson's article is IMO the most balanced and fair review of the DePo era in LA to date that I've seen."

The subsequent discussion has focused almost entirely on the "Drew as passive hitter" concept and whether he would be more productive swinging at marginal pitches. Very few object to the column in general or step up to defend DePo.

22
I was shocked to read the intro as well. Though after discussing the column itself on end here at Dodger Thoughts, I didn't really bother with it at Primer. Seems like they're not really familiar with the Dodger situation.

Looks like the conversation over there has shifted to fluke years in general...

Re: 15

Re: RISP, I'm all for never acknowledging the statistic again. First, there's little or no proof any ability to hit in that situation even exists. And second, you simply can't put any stock in it because it's always going to have a small sample size. But then again, people like certain writers at the times or Jim Tracy are going to pick who they want to play and find some way to back it up. If Choi was hitting with RISP and Phillips wouldn't, I'm sure we wouldn't hear anything about it.

Fair enough, but I do think that certain players are "clutch." The problem is that with sample sizes, it's impossible to prove this statistically, but our inability to quantify something does not automatically mean that it doesn't exist. Numbers are the best tool for making baseball judgments, but there are limits to what we can know from counting. It doesn't mean that we need to indulge in vague nonsense about baseball savvy, but even Tom Meagher argued that Valentin's RISP numbers meant something.

However, none of this affects the substantive point of Jon's postt--using RISP figures for one season of ABs, or in Choi's less, much less than one season is especially scandalous.

WWSH

It looks like dealing with RISP is akin to playing with fire. It can be a useful tool, but if you don't know what you're doing, you'll do more harm than good.

I remember before the trading deadline when the media (not here) was criticizing Dunn for his "dismal" BA with RISP. Then it was something like .219, now it is .276 - also his OPS remains higher with RISP than without.

It illustrates how volatile the statistic is because of the small sample size.

I thought the Jackson article was ridiculous as well. I fell into the Christina category of not having the energy. Kudos to FirstMohican for breaking it down into the train wreck that it is.

On the other subject:
Maybe my memory is off, but my recollection is that the ground-level shot is one of the worst angles you can go to. We'll see if they can offer something to fix my mind.

Yes, but the from-behind-homeplate angle is a close second in my opinion. I don't mind it so much if I'm at the actual game, but I find it very awkward on TV.

The angle I like best was during the Nats-Dodgers series in Wash. It was from behind the pitchers mound, but somewhat more elevated and with a less severe angle from the left side of the infield.

A "passive" hitter? This sounds like something Steve Lyons would say, e.g., "That was one of the most passive home runs I've ever seen. If Drew really wants to help the ballclub, he needs to take a more aggressive approach to his home runs."

Maybe if he squinched his face together more.

Maybe he just needs to listen to better music.

29 Maybe "passive" is code for "not enough heart and soul" or "not enough fire in his belly".

Well, scrappy players do tend to be agressive right?

Come to think of it, I do remember a poster complaining (shortly before Drew went on the DL) because after a home run, Drew showed no emotion as he walked back to the dugout.

That darn Drew, if he'd just whooped a little, the ump would've tacked on another run to the score.

Drew reminds me of the character Christopher Guest plays in "Best in Show." The one who came from Tennessee with his hunting dog, and ended up as a ventriloquist. It's a southern type; not passive, just not in a hurry.

I bet Tony Jackson has not read Moneyball yet. That is the only way to understand a genious like Paul DePodesta or Billy Beane. THey do not always win the world series their first year, unlike the highly overrated Theo Epstein (I could have one the world series with the team he came in with). DePo transformed our farm system, made a great move in trading LoDuca, and has only had two drafts. In a couple years his drafts will start to pop up and become stars. We had a shadow over us this year with the injuries and now we should look to next year, where we will definetely make the postseason.

Drew is just deeply religious and I kind of like that he does not fling his bat after a homer like Manny. Drew actually walks to first base in case the ball hits the wall instead of going over.

Don't forget about Logan White.

35

Aw crap, here we go again.

DT Over/Under Challenge Update:

Championship Game:
Series tied 0-0, Best 2 out of 3
Colorado Blue Xeifrank
Penny 6 6-1/3

p.s. - anyone know the Dodger starting pitchers on wednesday and thursday? vr, Xei

39 - Lowe, then Perez

38 - you said it

maybe now Lowe will do better since he doesn't have to lie awake at night worrying about his skulking around...

Howard Fox,
I think most of the discussion about the article has already happened. I'm too tired to talk about it. Though I can't vouch for anybody else.

43 - what?

Derek Lowe just altered his mechanics and has done OK lately. One bad start against the Cards, but can you blame him? It happens to everybody who faces the Cardinals.

From Gammons' Insider article:

"The steroid rumor mill has been spinning out of control. More than 50 players tested positive, one megastar. Clubhouse talk. Maybe it's only a dozen, but there's a bigger name than Rafael Palmeiro. That's what's going around.

At this point, this is all nothing but idle speculation, seemingly exaggerated, since the executive council hasn't been notified, and those members had known for a long time about Palmeiro, Ryan Franklin and another player whose name will soon leak out."

I've heard the exact number is 56, although I wouldn't trust it. I'm more inclined to believe it's 56 Heath Tottens if that number is correct

Nevermind. Has there been any new news on Lowe's, uh, situation since his last start?

If anyone's in the mood for some piss 'n' vinegar, Tommy Nacarotto (sorry to butcher the spelling) has a long, angry, impassioned post at the end of the Scully thread that you might've missed. I'm not in agreement with all of it, but I'd hate for his hard work and good writing go unnoticed. Plus there's a priceless Scully quote at the end.

46 - Yeah I've heard something about a bigger news this week. I'm pretty curious as to who, if anybody, there is.

Anybody read Rob Neyers article on our lineup. It is an ESPN Insider article and basically says that we suck. He says Cesar should not lead off. He would hit 2nd if Antonio Perez could wake up Tracy.

Regarding "Suns Thoughts," looks like we have a rain delay.

46 So possibly 56 players are stupid enough to not be taking HGH, which isn't being tested for, instead of the steroids MLB is testing for?

I guess money really can't buy brains.

Hi - you know how much I value your input, so I encourage you all to express any thoughts you have on Ken's post here:

https://fairpole.baseballtoaster.com/archives/227175.html

As you'll see, we're really going to try to find a way to make our desire to earn a few dollars as unobrusive as possible - so we'd welcome any constructive thoughts.

53 - problem with ads, is if they aren't noticed, the advertiser won't want to pay for them, and if they are noticed, this becomes too commercial for some tastes...

unless you learn, like I have to ignor the ads, in which case the advertisers again won't be happy...

48 - I agree, Tommy's post at the end of the Vin's Burden thread really should be read.

I will say that I don't get any sense at all that McCourt wants to usher Vin out before he's ready - that was reiterated in the HBO interview. And I'm not quite as digusted as Tommy is - I spent most of my disgust in the winter of 2003-04. But I appreciate where Tommy is coming from. I have optimism about the team on the field, but not about the stadium experience.

or we could all change our sign-on names here to, e.g., Jon Weisman - Bar Mitzvah Speeches - call xxx-xxxx

then your comment is below...

53- To make a good add it does not matter if it looks good where it is or not. The add just needs to relate to people. You also need to put it somewhere where people see it. Pro Sports Daily puts it's adds between the articles, and you could put adds between messages.

54 - Certainly, it's problematic - which is why we want to be delicate about it.

57 - good idea...between posts it could say:

the preceding message was brought to you by Kellogg's Corn Flakes

But let's put the ad comments in the underneath the Fairpole posting.

58 - mind you, I am not against it, it is just a difficult thing to do without imposing on users...

the other way to raise money would be to have a nominal annual fee to access this site

The radio station I work for has considerable success with a simple banner ad at the top of the website. Lots of click-throughs - which is what the advertisers care about. (It's set up so that the ad can change with each refresh of the page.)

55 Jon, I agree. I don't think recognizing that Vin will be retiring eventually is the same as rushing him out the door.

61 - dont give anybody any ideas like paying, man

61. You could have a fee, but that all depends on the philosophy of the blog owner(s). I think you'd be better off selling T-Shirts to the blog users than charging them for access. I think if you charged a fee, you'd lose quite a few people and have trouble bringing in noobs. The ads are ok, as long as they don't slow down the site from reloading after submitting a post etc... vr, Xei

Why do some folks say the pitcher market will be very sparce this off season if Oswalt and Burnett are on the shelf?

65 Supply vs. demand - I think a lot more than two teams want to add good starting pitching.

64 - I would wear anything supporting the Dodgers... make merchandise like: 'DePo for President' or 'Giants Suck' or 'Los Angeles Dodgers of Los Angeles' shirts. I would buy some of em.

What does everybody think that DePo will do with Weaver. Does he resign, let go, or move by waiver?

other teams are bastards.

Again - let's put the ad commentary in one place, at Fairpole:

https://fairpole.baseballtoaster.com/archives/227175.html

I will add that the Dodger Thoughts T-shirt is not dead, just delayed.

Who do you think we trade by waivers? Who do we get?

hey guys..when is the waiver deadline? Aug 31?

homedepo- are you feeb from the espn dodger board?

I think weaver will weave his own fate in the next two months. 14 wins he stays anything less and he gets the boot. Odalis is the one that should be hung or be forced into grow up classes.

Was Weaver being cute by giving up a bucket load of home runs to opposing pitchers?

73 - nope i have never posted on the ESPN dodger board. i looked once and there are like 5 people there

73 - nope i have never posted on the ESPN dodger board. i looked once and there are like 5 people there

right....

75 maybe Weaver wants back into the American League, where he won't have to face pitchers.

natepurcell - i checked in the preseason... just checked again and they dont like this feebs guy so much.. or me either

Nice piece on Steve Schmoll.

http://tinyurl.com/9s6kj

It could be matter of time before he becomes our closer.

Marlins took a 1-0 lead over the DBacks in the 2nd

Random question. From AP/CNN:

"Byrnes, 52, a Vietnam veteran who entered the Army in 1969 as a second lieutenant ..."

That age has to be wrong, right?

The ESPN people hate the dodgers so much.

The ESPN people hate the dodgers so much.

wow we just got jose cruz jr....

82 Has to be 62, no? A 16-year-old 2nd Lt?

82 - To enter the Army as a second looie, wouldn't you have to have a couple of years of college ROTC? He would have had to graduate HS at 13.

85 - what's your source, Nate?

We picked up Cruz Jr.? Interesting.....

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?leaguenum=&sport=MLB&id=5786

Knowing Tracy, he doesn't have a chance at playing over scrappy, so Ledee just got reduced ABs. For a PTBNL, Cruz ain't too bad. As long as that PTBNL is Richard Bartlett or someone like that

Does anybody here watch baseball tonight? they are all overweight asswholes who only like the Red Sucks and the Yankass.

As long as that PTBNL is Richard Bartlett or someone like that

i hope we gave away chad billingsley.

92 - Penalty box.

See, I don't like that. Rotoworld prints this but they don't name a source. I'm not saying they're wrong, but it should better reported.

Re: Tommy Naccarato:
I too am a lifelong Dodger fan (1947 WS hooked me). I couldn't agree more with his sentiments about the "Dodger experience." I got season tickets in the wake of the 1988 WS victory, then found I wasn't using them enough. I went less and less, and hadn't gone for a couple of years. My first game back was Hee Sop's 3 HR game. I was appalled at all the hucksterism, non baseball related junk I had to sit through. Some people who go to the game actually want to watch the game! A great game, a lousy "experience."

hmmmmmm... lets hope we give up Jason Grabowski

88

ESPN has it on their transaction list as well:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions

A $4MM career .789 OPS outfielder? Maybe Jim Tracy will play him at 1B over HSC.

92 - you need to use cleaner language than that on this site, please. Thanks.

sorry jon, it wont happen again... caught up in the heat of the moment, you know (maybe not)

Valentin
.184/.348/.310

Repko
.233/.300/.386

Cruz
.215/.345/.430

Not a huge upgrade, but he's not terrible. It'll be interesting to see what the corresponding roster move will be

Has our PTBNL in the Thurston deal been named yet?

As long as Cruz is taking at-bats from Repko and Valentin and not Ledee, Choi, Perez, etc.

95 According to the MLB.com stats page, he's a Dodger

100 - Thanks.

Cruz seems like an underachiever. he was drafted 3rd overall in 1995 and has done a little bit of progress. one good year with Jays and a good year with the Giants... he has OK plate discipline. we just need to trust Tim Wallach......

for what it is worth, Cruz is a good fielder

101 Yeah, but look at the salary. Double-you tee eff is Depo thinking this time (except maybe "ditch him at the end of the season")? Cruz is 31, has never batted over .275, and got DFA'd by the Snakes and the Red Sox.

Can someone explain why we aquired Jose Cruz Jr.? We have an abundance of decent players, howabout a good one?

Alright everyone, lets start speculating... who did the BoSox get for Cruz Jr.

Could this mean that Carrara might be DFA since we are carrying 12 pitchers right now?

I think his problem has been pitch recognition. Or inability to hit a breaking ball or something.

now wait a minute... maybe this is part of a 3 way deal...if not we just need to pray DePo knows what he is doing

109 That alone would make the acquisition worth it.

Hey at least he gets on base, which is more than you can about half the hitters on the team.

108 - Maybe we're giving up the PTBNL we got from the yankees.

109 - make that Wilson Alvarez AND Gio and we have a deal!

113 - good point... we need that (maybe hit him 2nd in the order so that Kent can drive him in?)

Here's hoping the PTBNL is Mr. Lisa.

Alright everyone, lets start speculating... who did the BoSox get for Cruz Jr.

okay ill start first... andy laroche.

Alvarez has guaranteed contract through next year. I'm not sure about Carrara.

109 My guess is that Broxton goes back to the minors.

natepurcell - hahaha...

Eric, didn't you want to get JCJr. about two years ago?

Or maybe we're sending them Henri Stanley back.

It's gotta be someone on the 40-man, right? Either that or someone is about to be DFAed.

I think Gio "I'm the most Italian looking Venezuelan dude in the WORLD" Carrara is actually going to play tonight. I'll predict that one of these two scenarios will happen: 1) Carrara comes in for some garbage time with the Dodgers down by 5 runs. He quickly retires the side, striking out two. OR 2) Carrara comes in with the Dodgers up by two runs. He then walks a batter, and gives up a ground rule double. He is then pulled for Sanchez who's fix-it work is perfect aside from the hit that drove in Carrara's mess.

Eric, didn't you want to get JCJr. about two years ago?
------

Good memory, Jon. Yes, I was an advocate of signing Cruz the off-season he ended up signing with the Jints.

He was a better player then than now.

120 - the whole reason we brought Broxton up was to put him in the game with somebody fast on 1st... he throws fast so nobody can steal on him

118 Is that because he was out of the lineup yesterday?

Why didn't we wait and try to pick him up through the waivers? I'm sure he wasn't that much in demand. I hope the PTBNL is our second tier prospect.

If our manager weren't Jim Tracy, I'd be happy about this. He's a superior option to anyone we currently have. Sadly, Tracy is going to see his low average and sit him for Repko.

I really hate how Tracy effects my thinking about this team.

Cruz has an .830 OPS vs. righties this year, .790 from 2002-04.

129 - Isn't that one reason he was DFA'd in the first place?

With Werth able to come back soon, I'm guessing this means any number of things:

1. Drew had a setback and is gone for the season
2. Carrara is gone
3. Another trade is about to go down involving Valentin, Repko, Robles, Edwards, etc., hopefully for a middle reliever
4. Edwards was demoted (although that brings up another problem when Werth comes back)

UPDATE:
Marlins now up 2-0, no outs, men on 2nd and 3rd
Braves up over the Giants 4-0

123 PTBNL can't be in the same league, we're giving up a minor leaguer

Anyone know the status of Cruz's chronic back problems? Speculation on Primer yesterday was that was why the Red Sox DFAed him.

Jon, I know I wanted Cruz Jr. at one time. I thought he was going to be a very good player when he first came up with the Mariners.

RISP OPS in 2005: .649! That's gonna infuriate some people!

133- Many minor leaguers are on the 40-man roster.

look for san diego to lose to pedro tonight

javier vazquez is in trouble now

...but how scrappy, er, I mean, savvy is he?

In my mind, the biggest Dodger killer at the plate before Jim Eisenreich was Jose Cruz, Sr. It would almost be like the Dodgers to have acquired him this season.

141 - but Sr. was a great player with other teams... we did not have DePo when we picked up Sr.

anybody play fantasy baseball?

Giants have DFA'd Alex Sanchez. I don't mind Cruz, but if DePo picks him up, I won't be so happy, although the odds on it happening are pretty bad...

Senior was always one of my favorite players, so maybe that's why I've always tended to have a soft spot for Cruz Jr.

Milton Bradley has been quoted as saying that one of his prized possessions is a vintage Jose Cruz jersey -- you know, the rainbow brite design.

80. My TinyUrl doesn't work (firewall?), so could you give us a synopsis of how they have him becoming our closer ahead of others like Broxton, Brazoban and Kuo? Thanks. vr, Xei

I'm excited about the JCJr trade. He can field the ball well, throw well, draw a walk, and hit homers.

How many other outfielders on our active 25-man roster can do ALL 4 of these things as well or better?

JCJr is not the savior, but our anemic lineup needs a player like him. Hopefully this move will also put Valentin back at 3rd base and Robles on the bench.

Is Valentin experiment in LF over now.

146 -- The article doesn't discuss that at all. The part about Schmoll becoming closer was merely speculation on ddger's part.

148 - i thought he was OK (nice catch against Nats) but Cruz is a much better fielder

146. http://www.gazette.net/200532/sports/updates/288558-1.html

92/99. That's what happens unfortunately when DT gets such widespread exposure. vr, Xei

Since Jose Cruz is basically Choi (low BA, good walk rate) without the experience it will be curious if he gets to play. He said that when he was released by Arizona that he finally felt healthy for the 1st time all year and that he had been in quite a bit of pain all year. He should be an upgrade on Repko who all the sudden is playing the worse defense I've seen since Grabowski and it no longer is rare when he misplays a ball hit in his general direction. Curious though that Boston would release him after just a few games considering they moved two borderline prospects for him.

18
He was traded with Frank Robinson for Andy Messersmith. That was back in the day when the GM's weren't afraid to trade with each other. He was a favorite of mine and I was dissapointed that I never got to see him play upto his capabilities because of that injury. I remember him when he came up to the Dodgers because he was the 1st player born in 1950 to make it to the Dodgers. I felt very young then. Won't be long now before a player born in 1990 makes it. Hopefully I still be alive when it happens.

No JCJr news on the Dodgers' site, as of yet.
But here's another source: http://tinyurl.com/c8ow6

141 Jose Cruz Sr. was a bigger Dodger killer than Paul O'Niell? :)

I think Valentin's looked pretty good in LF, considering.

Outfield defense has not been our problem. Now we have 6 outfielders who are above average defensively, plus Valentin if you want to count him.

Drew
Ledee
Bradley
Werth
Repko
Cruz

141Bob Watson used to destroy us. I'll have to check retrosheet to see if that is just a memory soaked in nostalgia or the gospel.

So, who was the 1970s version of Brian Lawrence and Adam Eaton?

The BTF thread has turned into a debate whether re-signing Beltre might've been a good move - even if you knew he'd hit he is now and not like the '04 version.
I'm a big fan of Matt Welch but I have no idea where he's coming from on that.

Cruz appears to be a better hitter than Valentin, which would be the only criterion since the PTBNL is likely Carrara. :)

Preston Wilson without Coors and a contract that defines him by ESPN as a good player.

Maybe CruzJr will be our gift from Boston like Dave Roberts was last year. vr, Xei

Xei, try this link.

http://www.gazette.net/200532/sports/updates/288558-1.html

149 Yep, it's speculation but one more bad outing by Braz like last one might change Tracy's mind and use Schmoll as closer.

Dessert Rate, :)

No worries about the butchering of the name. Even I can't get it right most of the time!

I know I have nothing but a bunch of hair-brained ideas regarding the Dodgers, and Jon, I've spent the last two days coming in on Real Sports after the Vin interview.

Makes me realize how much I need Tivo.

Now, I need to ramble a bit more...

The Vin quote is a classic one, and if I remember right, we all commented positively that night it was said. It shudders me to think of how good the concrete parking structures are going to look in that statement when its all done and completed. Better add in there a Gordon Birsch, Chili's and a TGIF just behind the left field pavillion--that is until they go belly up because no one will be spending the money there like they thought. Proof of this can be seen at Anaheim Of LA Stadium and The Pond where Gordon Birsch went belly-up from lack of business, and that was even with a full time 30 theater movie megaplex and other stores to go with it. People go home after these events because they have to get up and go to work in the morning and on the weekends, the game will be more then their wallets will be able to handle. Walter O'Malley knew this--that's why he made the Dodgers the best deal in town--to keep them coming in and coming back. And this was back in the days when they went by butts in the seat, not tickets sold to break 3 Million year after year.

Could it be that McCourt is building these places in hopes of getting the people to stay while the traffic dies down? My Dodger Thoughts are that we'll see the revitalization of coming in 3rd leaving in the 8th when its all finished.

Getting back to it all, Jon, I think Vin in fact sees this train wreck waiting to happen. I think its why he looks so sad or sounds so sad now the majority of the time--the only thing missing is the brutal honesty/tough love of Chick Hearn to describe just how bad the entire National League West is this year, if not the entire health of Major League Baseball as a whole.

Digusted?

Yes, very much so. This attitude of modern baseball sucks right down the chain of command from the owners to the staff, to the management, to the players and finally, to the fans who will put up with such nonsense. This isn't what I signed on for when I was a little kid--pledging my love and devotion for a team dressed in blue. I signed on for the experience of seeing true heroes play the Game with passion and purpose in an environment that made me want to forget my daily woes, even if I didn't have any.

Dodger Stadium is THAT magical of a place...
Or maybe it's just me...

Agree with 159 -- Matt is usually a sensible, convincing fellow, but today he's spouting crazy talk.

I kinda doubt Cruz will be anything but exasperating, but it's the kind of pickup that a team at 50-62 but only six games out can make.

do you think cruz is last years steve finley or do you think we will use cruz to GET last years steve finley?

Suns game is on =)

Orenduff on the mound

164 - Eric, glad you're here because I wanted to ask somethign: I believe you once posted a link to Drysdale's call of Gibson's homer. Still have that link?

Jon,

Another Dodger killer was Cliff Floyd. Probably not anymore, but he always played them tough when he was with Pittsburgh.

Or am I hallucinating?

153 The Sox might've needed the roster room, since they just got Remlinger from the Cubs. He will be their loogy, it appears.

Also, maybe you all know this, but I just saw that Kenny Rogers' suspension has been cut short by an arbitrator. Too late for Texas, I think.

Is Cruz a free agent after this year?

Gold Star -- it used to be on the Dodger website a long time ago, back before MLB Advanced Media took over all the team websites and crappified them. Now, AFAIK, it's no longer on the web.

166 -- Neither. Cruz is the 21st Century's Roberto Kelly. There to help us get through the season. If he's playing an OF position full-time in 2006, God help us all.

Crud.

169,
Yes.

Tommy,
Cliff Floyd has never played for the Pirates.

hmmm, should we offer cruz arby? we could get draft picks... ill fantasize what logan white can turn the two weaver draft picks + cruz draft picks into.

Radio calls?

http://www.dodgers2001.com/multimedia/audio_gallery/index.html

???

167 Thanks for the notification. I got tired of "Rain Delay Theatre"

170 Mike Myers is their LOOGY. Remlinger is hit hard by lefties but very effective against righties. He's one of those bizarre lefties. Tracy, however, would only use him against lefties

And he's never been in my kitchen, either. ;)

Coming into this year, Cliff Floyd had a career batting average of .269 against the Dodgers.

So I'm trying to think who it might be?

177 You're kidding, right? Arbitration for a $4MM/year OF who hits like Todd Hundley?

177 Weaver is good enough that he'll get a btter deal from someone so we can offer him arbitration. I don't think Cruz will find another offer more than the $4+ million he'd get in arbitration, so we'd probably end up with him rather than 2 draft picks. Plus, would anyone give up their draft picks for Cruz? Considering he's lowered his stock to nil this season (save for a resurgance with the Dodgers, which I'm fully in support for)

177 You're kidding, right? Arbitration for a $4MM/year OF who hits like Todd Hundley?

now that i have been informed he is making 4 mil this year, i retract my idea of offering arby.

nate went all Kevin Malone on us there for a minute. :)

now that i have been informed he is making 4 mil this year, i retract my idea of offering arby.
-------

I suggest offering him a beef and cheddar, and if that doesn't work, sweeten the pot with some curly fries.

178 - The page is there and the links "work," but no joy, as they say in NASA.

P.S. I missed the class on how to hyperlink to someone else's comment.

nate went all Kevin Malone on us there for a minute.

im a sadist, i know.

If Choi's in the lineup, I'm heading out to Dodger stadium... if not, I'm not going

I have my Hee Seop t-shirt ready to go to start the chant, but I'm not going to wait for a pinch-hit appearance in the 9th inning when we're down 2-4....

I think there's a 84.6% chance I'll be on the 5 North in about 20 minutes...

I might offer Cruz an Arby's Roast Beef sandwich if he loses his temper in the dugout and accidentally puts Phillips back in the hospital.

186 Damn you, Eric. Damn you to (Arby's) hell.

Don Gullett was 14-5 with a 2.71 ERA against the Dodgers.

I would think that any candidate for being a tough pitcher against the Dodgers in the 1970s would be somebody on the Reds.

In 1974 the Dodgers won 16 of 18 against the Padres, losing twice to Dan Spillner.

Marlins up 5-0 over the DBacks
Braves up 7-1 over the Giants
The odds that Chan Ho beats Pedro are terrible
Colorado is hot, no reason they couldn't beat Pittsbugh

Looks like the Rockies will be our biggest problem if we lose. Or we could just make this easy and win tonight

187 - Like this: [x]. You owe me an apple, but I prefer pears.

Maybe the Cruz trade is a subtle message to Tracy given that his numbers are very Choi-like....

Will the lineup be posted at 6:10 PM?

Speaking of Dodger radio calls, with a road trip to Wrigley coming up, I wonder if Vin will sign off his August 28 broadcast with "we go to Chicago!"

Re: 163

>>This attitude of modern baseball sucks right down the chain of command from the owners to the staff, to the management, to the players and finally, to the fans who will put up with such nonsense.<<

Count me in as one of those fans. I adore the game for a whole host of reasons, but if owners and players want to make a buck like they've done since the beginning of the game, shrug. O'Malley it is said broke Brooklyn's heart to make our team the LA Dodgers--a decision Vin seemed to be okay with--so I'll give McCourt the benefit of the doubt for now.

WWSH

194 - No apples or pears, but GF and I do have some peaches and bananas.

I think Wilson Alvarez has been great for the Dodgers, but his heart isn't in the game anymore. He nearly quit the team a week or so ago, so why couldn't DePo grant him his wish and release him while picking up Remlinger? We don't have any low-A or Rookie ball players to trade???

192 - J.R. Richard. Period.

Great, now I'm going to have that annoying song in my head all night... "Yes, we have no bananas"

Bob,
I'm hallucinating.

Maybe he wasn't on Pittsburgh, but wasn't there a Floyd that played 2nd base that used to kill the Dodgers? He may not have had a great average against them, but he always seemed to hit at the inopportune times.

I'm losing it.

Am I the biggest pro-Choi(cer) on DT?

197 ,
Go to Walter O'Malley.com and read the entire website and then tell me that O'Malley wasn't justified.

Blame Robert F. Moses.

200OMG he used to just dominate us but then for a few years he was just about the best pitcher in baseball. What a sad end to what should have been a glorious career.

I've got a brilliant idea... how about Rick Monday as the PTBNL?

190 -- Phillips is better? That's not what the Times said yesterday. Please tell me that was the one thing this year the Times got right.

Off-topic... but why is Al Reyes getting the start for the Cards today? He's on my fantasy team...

And since we're on the subject of PTBNLs, I hereby present... Harry Chiti

http://www.historicbaseball.com/players/c/chiti_harry.html

omg jtd drew a walk! he also has a slight change in his batting stance. maybe now he wont swing at everything.

208 To give the rotation a day off. Everyone in the rotation is just being pushed back a day

209 - Jimmy Breslin, on Chiti: "There is no other reason for his fame."

210 - Huh?

jtd = Jermaine Dye?

Man... when's the lineup coming out????

I've been hitting refresh for about 10 minutes now!

You can stay home. Saenz is starting at 1st.

215 Our roster move must be taking awhile. They don't want to name 26 players. Maybe something is going down...or maybe David Bell had a sore toe so they needed to change the line up last minute

JtD = Joel the Destroyer = Joel Guzman

stay at home park.

1.Iz (ss)
2.Robles(3b)
3.Bradley(cf)
4.Kent(2b)
5.Saenz(1b)
6.valentin(lf)
7.Navarro(c)
8.Repko(rf)
9.Penny

FREAKIN! I HATE JIM TRACY!!!!!

Repko is starting in RF. Will he allow a ball between his legs, bounce off his glove, misjudge a ball off the wall, throw home while Rollins jogs into 2nd base or in a "rare" occurance play an error and mental free RF?

218 Of course, just as I posted that...

Gameday doesn't have anything about Cruz (not on our bench). Unless he's in the bullpen now, there's something not right

ROBLES??? ROBLES??? ROBLES???? REPKO??? RETARDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for my rant.... but c'mon!!!! When you go 2 for 4 with 2 Ribs... you deserve another start.

Tracy must go.

I can't complain about Saenz. As long as it isn't Philips I can go to the game.

i consider myself pretty pro-choi(ce). i want to see him start full time with saenz doing spot starts at 1st and 3rd and being the first bat off the bench.

Henson article backlash... Tracy seems to be daring DePodesta to fire him....

Man, I have 2 tickets to today's game I'm burning in protest of Tracy's inane lineup maneuvers...

Wow!

203 - There are plenty of Choi fans here (me included). Too bad, but I doubt Choi will start again for awhile...

on the other hand, i don't get worked up into fits of rage anymore when choi doesn't play. because then i'd be getting mad all the time, and who needs that? it's more of a quiet disappointment for me.

225 - to me saenz is almost as good as choi agains righties but better against lefties... no biggie even though i like the choi chant

Henson's article probably did more harm than good for Choi. Now Tracy will use Choi even less just to let everyone know who is the boss.

woah tejeda is a RIGHTIE! I thought that Choi was a better rightie hitter... saenz looks off-balance on a lot of his swings which makes me mad. choi is patient and has a big chant

According to the pregame talk, Cruz doesn't arrive until Weds. I think he needs to pass his physical.

cant believe cesar is leading off. put perez in there instead of robles and lead perez off

Seriously... with a lefty, I understand Saenz being in the lineup and Choi being benched - I don't agree with it but I accept it - but if you must have Saenz play, then put him at 3B and have Robles in as a defensive replacement in the late innings...

Perhaps it's because Choi is 0 for 1 against Tejeda and Tracy doesn't want to shatter Choi's confidence...

Repko's 1 for 1 with a 3B off this guy, so obviously he gets the start

I'm surprised Edwards isn't starting... he's 1 for 1, with an OPS of 2.00!!!

Seriously, Tracy needs to take an econometrics class one day and understand the concept of limited sample size....

oh i forgot about pregame.. gotta go!

222 Think we're about due for one off the forehead...

229 - Same here.

Tracy is Machiavellian to his core. Everyone is so grateful to see someone other than Phillips that ruining the lineup just doesn't seem so bad anymore. I wonder how much he pays Carville.

233 Any word who on who he replaces on the roster?

Just can't get excited enough to leave the comfort of my home and go to this game, especially with the tasty Oakland/Los Angeles game coming on. Think I'll get some dinner together and get my remote finger ready for some baseball.

For LA Times or other sports reporters only:

Machiavellian - characterized by subtle or unscrupulous cunning, deception, expediency, or dishonesty

Why is Repko playing ahead of Ricky Ledee?

DePo has to get rid of Repko, Robles, Izturis.

239 - Steve, that's bull#*&!. Just let it go!

Whoops, left off the :)

239 - I think you're right.

239 Too much credit to Tracy... he doesn't have the political savvy to hire the Ragin' Cajun'...

Being a Korean Dodger fan, I can't but get enraged when big #5 is not in the lineup... he's what the Dodgers need now that Gagne is done for the year... I know he doesn't have the same value as Mr. Game Over, but that chant at Dodger Stadium is priceless and adds excitement to Dodger baseball...

Jim Tracy ga kysoke illugye "lineup" isanghageh hahmyun, Dodgers playoff ul mot galkuyah. DePodesta gah ppallee muh heh yah deh!!!!

It is official: http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story.asp?ID=132946

I feel bad for Player To Be Named Later, he's always shuffled around, can never really acclimate himself... but I guess we got Jose Cruz Jr for Thurston in that sense. Er... I'm afraid to see who they drop and hope it's Carrara, too.

After this series, I'm rooting for the Phillies to kick some major West-Coast butt in the next 3.5 weeks! Beyond the Dodgers actually winning a series or two, the Phillies are significant players in shaping the Western Division standings for the next few weeks. After the L.A. series, the Phillies will play the lukewarm Padres, the somewhat surging Giants (two of three from Houston), and the floating turds that are the Diamondbacks. But what's most interesting, and why I'll be cheering the Phillies come Friday, is Philadelphia's dominance of the West—except for their lackluster performance against the Dodgers. The Dodgers should have swept Philly in July (Yhency blew game 1 in the 10th), but, luckily, the Phillies were able to come back and sweep San Diego and take three of four from the Rockies; Philadelphia also followed up a May/June sweep of the Giants by swiping three of four from Arizona. The Phillies are 14-5 against the West. As an atheist: Thank God for the Philadelphia Phillies.

Dodgers sweep Philadelphia and take two of three from the Mets. If the Dodgers make the playoffs, I'm flying to L.A.!

I'm flying out the East Coast tomorrow for a mini-baseball road trip....

I'm planning on going to the Friday ChiSox vs. Red Sox game but I don't have a ticket... does anyone know if single seat tickets are available at Fenway or are all the games sold out?

Also, any cheap places to stay in Boston for the night?

Try a hostel:)

The DBacks have lost 5-0
The Giants will need a 6 run 9th to tie the game...

250 That will be a boring game. I promise you that the Sox will win :)

252- Woohoo! CG shutout! (I've got A.J. Burnett on my fantasy team).

Games at Fenway are all sold out, but for some games they still have obstructed view/single seats/standing room only tickets available. Try redsox.com.

They also release like 500 day of game tickets, you have to stand in line to get them. I've read that you have to get in line by like 1 pm to have a shot.

There's also a ton of scalpers, but be prepared to have to sell a kidney or something to afford it.

Cheap places to stay? No, unless you have a car and don't mind staying outside the city. Otherwise expect at least $100/night.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to ride a bus/train from Baltimore to Boston and do what I can to get to Fenway. An East Coast baseball tour without hitting Fenway is simply not acceptable....

Just don't try the Fenway Franks. Dodger Dogs they are not.

hey... you guys don't think that perhaps the PTBNL could possibly be choi himself, do you?? don't the red sox need a first baseman?

Choi: Pinch-hit, game-winning walk-off homerun in the 9th inning...

Dodgers win: 3-2

I'll post again today if and only if this occurs....

that would be total capitulation on depodesta's part, though.

Mole Cam!

258 Nope, it can't be. PTBNLs cannot be playing in the same league as the acquired player. The PTBNL must be a minor leaguer

The Giants had the bases loaded and only 1 out in the 9th, but lost anyways, 7-1 to the Braves.

249 great stuff.

JR Richard was the most dominant guy I ever saw live. It almost made me quit playing cause I was afraid. I was 8 I think. I pressed on until seeing real curveballs aimed at my own face.

My optimism is saying, hey who liked the Jay Payton pick up at the time. Maybe we catch lightning for a few weeks. Wasn't Jr. a 30/30 guy a few years back?

But then reality is reality, so we will see.

27 pitches in a hitless inning is brutal. Penny has got to settle down, but at least he made it through the rough stuff unscathed.

Miracle! a walk by Izturis!

Steal!

Don't bunt Milton

ESPN reporting that the Red Sox have traded Jose Cruz Jr to LA. Not sure if someone mentioned this already...

Never mind, quickly scrolled through to see if someone had posted it...now I see it.

Valentin is worthless

What a disappointing inning. At least we gave Penny some rest after his 26 pitch first

Ugh despite all of that Tejada gets out of the inning with less pitches thrown than Penny and no worse for the wear. Having 3 hitters under the Mendoza line, plus Repko as your 6-9 is rather hard to watch. At least Milton and Kent got to swing at the ball.

3 LOB to start the game. Blech.

Is it just me or is Tejada getting the high inside strike calls on lefties and Penny isn't? Not that it really matters, but it seems Penny is throwing strikes but is getting inlucky with the calls

Vlady hung a grand slam on Harden. One of the best pitchers in the AL is already down 7 runs in the 2nd.

Valentin is Werthless

Chan Ho is beating Pedro 3-0. The Mets better be embarassed for themselves

A's losing 7-0, Dodgers offense looks pathetic

Izturis just cancelled out the walk by swinging at the first pitch!

Vin Scully continues to pimp up Cruz Jr.

Kent is not exactly tearing it up with RISP today.

At least Tejada is finally ahead of Penny in the pitch count. It was absurd before (not that Penny is dominating but Tejada looks awful).

Redemption time for Valentin!!!

I'm starting to really dislike Abreu. I'd love him as a Dodger, but he's made Penny work far harder than the Dodgers needed

Tony Abreu just had a walkoff RBI single and the Suns won yet again

Pedro has allowed 5 runs to the Pads. Now he's going to pitch a shutout against the Dodgers on Sunday

I know this game doesn't have a lot happening, but did we all go to the game?

Eric Davis' godson Brandon Watson of Inglewood CA has been called up and now starts in centerfield for the Nationals. He went 2-5 with an RBI and 2 runs scored tonight.

meanwhile, in the much ballyhooed pitching matchup in san diego, pedro has allowed 5 runs and chan ho park has a shutout going. what a weird night.

Penny is rolling through them now, he pitched 27 in the first inning and then less than 50 through the next 4 (including 6 pitches in the last inning).

Indians went into the bottom of the 9th against the Royals down 7-2. They then scored 11 runs (!) in the inning and won 13-7

Penny's pitching great but we need to score some runs for him soon. Why do we struggle so much to score runs for him?

Izzy with a 2 walk game. That has to be the first time he's done that in quite some time

When was the last time Izzy has two walks?

That was an impressive single for Robles. Hit the ground before the bat...

Robles has to get a hit on the bounce because we insist on playing hit and run.

I really hate this manager.

Literally, the ball hit the ground and then he hit it? That isn't a dead ball? Why did he swing?

Bradley has the right idea. Now let's score a few more, and hope Kent doesn't strike out

295 It hit the ground, I guess it wasn't dead. Pretty impressive

285 Didn't go to the game, but I did get back late, and I never feel right posting before I've read the whole thread.

295 It was a hit and run. If Robles doesn't swing, Cesar is hung out to dry.

Wow the K hat trick. I guess that Tejada has Kent's number.

Kent was swinging at terrible pitches. Only the final pitch was a strike. Kent chose a terrible time to go into a slump

If this is Kent's way of sticking up for his buddy JD then I am not impressed.

Did someone already say that?

Boy, 3K's, 6 LOB from our best RISP hitter.

300- It really would be, but maybe this isn't the beginning of a slump. Everybody has bad nights here and there.

RISP stat seems to get less and less important.

The ball isn't dead if it bounces. If it were, there would never be any wild pitches.

303 I think he's hitting something like .143 in the last 6 games. Has a homer or two, so it's not really a power slump

Has FSN2 used the ground level cameras tonight? My attention has been divided, but I haven't seen any worm's eye view shots.

I was expecting Repko's daily defensive problem on the Rollins ball. If he drops that or doesn't get to it, that's a triple for Rollins

I think Izzy might have one 3 walk game in his career. He walked twice in a games a few times last year.

307 We got to see Ryan Howard's butt from the "Diamond Cam" while he was holding a runner on

309
You are correct. Izzie walked three times against Colorado at Dodger Stadium on September 28, 2004.

That was the game Bradley had his bottle incident in right field.

The Dodgers scored five times in the ninth to win the game 5-4. One of Izzie's walks was in the ninth against Shawn Chacon.

310 Man! I've gotta stop reading DT and start giving my undivided attention to the tube. I missed Ryan Howard's butt.

Is Repko's defensive problems coming from overagressiveness or is it a defensive slump. He seems to make great plays at times but then messes up the easy ones. Maybe just rookie inconsistencies.

311- God, I have a great memory when it comes to numbers
pats self on the back

Navarro didn't miss that by much. He keeps hitting deep fly balls just foul or to the warning track. I could see him bulking up and making some of those homers

Navarro is not stealing any bases anytime soon. On two straight pitches he dove back to the bag

314
The Dodgers scored five runs that game on five hits. The Rockies walked 10. Chacon faced five batters. He struck out one (Saenz) and then walked the next four: Cora, Ventura, Hernandez, and Izturis. Werth doubled in two and Finley singled in two to win it off of the greatest Finnish-American pitcher ever: Tim Harikkala.

6-3 Padres in the seventh. Mets have two on and one out.

i do not know if jon is here but I would like him to tell me the new dodger lineup Tracy should use factoring in Cruz Jr. If you are here, jon, that would be great.

Izzy got his third walk of the night. Very impressive

So now we know! The Dodgers are 1-0 in games in which Izturis walks three times!

Vin just pointed out how weird both Izzy and Kent's performances have been. It's like the Twilight Zone game.

Our leaving men on base again, however, is not so unusual.

Bob - if the dodgers lose i am blaming you for jinxing them

This is a historic game. Hopefully this trend continues. Depo has to be pleased with Izturis performance.

everybody has to be pleased with izzy, but i bet depo is running victory laps in the parking lot

Nice job of pulling the string - 82 mph - on that strikeout pitch.

schmolly is warming up in the pen... braz should be setup and schmoll should close!

I've been wondering what the foul-ball sound clip is for at least two years, the one that sounds like a slo-mo replay of a pinball game. Anybody know? It's a Dodger Stadium thing, not a Fox one.

328 - what do u mean???

Good news! From Dodgers.com

Phillips, out with a bruised hand since the Washington series, said he's ready to play, but was not in Tuesday's lineup. Tracy said Phillips would return to the lineup at first base Wednesday and would catch later in the week.

330 - Good news for people who like bad news, to quote Modest Mouse.

When a foul ball is hit in to the stands, there's a sound clip that gets played. It happened last inning. My description may be inadequate. It's sort of a video-gamey sound. Boink-boi-boi-boink-boink. No?

Kent has a problem. He's swinging at absolutely terrible pitches. That's a walk if he doesn't swing at the last one

bob... the catching part is good news but not the first base part. i thought it was a consensus that choi should play 1st

Kent wears the sombrero.

That's fantastic. I guess I won't go to the game tomorrow after all. :(

332- oh ya now i remember it... its one of the things for the kids at the park. they giggle and it sells seats to people who do not like baseball

330 Lovely. Can't wait for tomorrow's epic performance.

time for schmoll to enter the gates... unless tracy desides to keep in quarter (penny)

Looking up Jose Cruz the Elder's splits on Retrosheet, it appears that he just as well against the Dodgers as he did for his career.

He batted .286 and slugged .347 in his career against the Dodgers. His career numbers were .284 and .354.

He had a couple of really good years against the Dodgers in 1977 and 1979.

Maybe Jose Cruz was just more clutch.

I think Bradley went 1-5 with a HR and 4 strikeouts in a game in Florida last summer. I think Beltre also stole a base in that game. Check the records Bob :)

341
That was the RDGC for 2004. May 6.

I love it when Vin starts stealing signs. Doesn't happen often, which is for the best since it's better that the other team not know he's doing it.

343 - I also love it when Vinny starts to read lips. he is never right but it is so cool!

SEE! Vinny just read Bobby Abreaus lips and said that he said "Oh My GOSH!" which is completely incorrect. he cursed instead.

Schmoll fools the umpire

"Montague saw it at the knees. . ."

Low strikes there for Schmoll. Not that I'm complaining.

But not Pat Burrell

I CANNOT BELIEVE IT! lskdahfgaf;l'kagl/kahsdg;'akls

Pat Burrell strikes out too much, but occasionally hits 3 run home runs.

Oh krep.

I guess the Gazette is going to have to do a retraction of the Schmoll closer article.
vr, Xei

So much for Schmoll for closer

Meanwhile, the Pads go up 8-3.

That was a truly bad pitch.

351 -- Pat Burrell for Cesar Izturis straight up?

But it's Valentin, Navarro and Repko due up in the 8th!

Does Ryan Howard strike out too much too?

Now that he's been unofficially anointed the new closer by Dodger Thoughts, Schmoll can no longer pitch anytime other than 9th inning save situations.

351 We've got a guy like that, but we prefer to keep him on the bench.

you knew it

Schmoll... Oy vey.

So the Schmoll for Closer campaign is officially over now isn't it?

That was also a bad pitch.

Schmoll is done. Acceptance, acceptance, acceptance... Padres up 8-3. Urbina and Wagner will be hard to score 3 runs off

Why is he still pitching? I like Schmoll, I don't fault Tracy, but why is he still pitching now? Nonsense.

wow, ryan howard absolutely CRUSHED it. it hit the blue seats in the pavilion.

Can I take back my suggestion of Schmoll replacing Braz as closer?

Braz must have put a hex on Schmoll so that he can't take his job.

Because a 2-3 run lead is clearly insumountable.

If Navarro's arms were three feet longer, this inning would be over.

cause bell will pop up

No, no you guys have it backwards. That was a save situation. So clearly, after one inning, it is conclusive that Steve Schmoll does not have the mental ability to pitch in save situations, while Yhency Brazoban only has the mental ability to pitch in save situations. QED, Schmoll will now pitch in only six run games.

Padres sure chose the right time to get hot

Maybe now Choi can pinch hit and get a grand slam to win.

373 -- If he walks David Bell, he may need armed guards to take him out of the stadium.

Chan Ho Park outdueling Pedro Martinez?? One more toe out the "Acceptance" door.
vr, Xei

Thank Choi Jason Phillips is coming back. That will do it.

Schmoll is on pitch 35. So he has a bad game tonight, and Tracy ruins him for a week. Moron.

Can we just rewind the game back to the beginning of the inning! That was ugly. As soon as I get home power up the PC and turn the game on, the fit hits the shan. My bad! vr, Xei

Good- I never liked novelty pitchers for closers. Just put in left handers and its all over. But maybe we can begin next year with this idea suppressed for good. We still don't have many of our good prospects up learning to be losers and we should keep it that way. I hope they send Broxton down-he shouldn't see this

368 Good point. Tracy likes to leave his pitchers in until they get a sound beating (sure doesn't help their confidence) before he takes them out.

He'll say that he doesn't want to burn out his bullpen.

And this is how we burn out Duaner Sanchez.

Hello all, just popping in for a moment, trying to reconcile the thought process in Depo's head.

Carrara sucks, Sanchez sucks, Brazoban sucks, Schmoll is mediocre at best... let's get an outfielder?

That was a hell of an at bat by David Bell.

371 Valentin-Navarro-Repko vs Urbina

Ledee-Izzy-Robles vs Wagner (he's a lefty so no chance for Choi)

I'm saying it's insumountable, but it won't be easy. It sure would be nice to have a consistent reliever

And Sanchez helps. It's over

I hate being a dodger fan

Are the Dodger relief pitchers using Unleaded or Diesel gas to put out this fire?
vr, Xei

384 - Edwards sucks, Valentin sucks, Repko sucks...

Your point?

Who is the Jose Cruz of relief pitchers though? That's almost too frightening to think about.

Hey wait a minute, didn't PhilliesNation promise us a Bell pop-out? I'm watching the rest of this game under protest.

Man. Who let the damn dogs out.

It sure would be nice to get a big comeback win. We haven't had one for a while.

they pitched around him

Note to Jim Tracy:

Carrara pitches the ninth.

Bob, when was the last time we came back from 3 down in the 8th?

blame bob timmerman... earlier i said i would blame him because he jinxed us. jk... kind of.

395 make that 5 down in the 9th if Carrara pitches

We're probably 7 games back and winning every other game while the Padres are hot. Unless we win just about every game in September, this isn't looking good. So what's more important? A better draft pick or beating the Giants?

Looks like the Dodgers alltime record in games where Izturis walks three times will fall to 1-1.

To keep the record perfect, I think it is more likely that Izturis will walk a fourth time.

396 - At the very least, the beginning of this year.

And up next, the Murderer's Row of Valentin, Navarro, and Repko. I imagine the exits must be getting a little crowded right about now.

I kept warning against leaving acceptance, but nobody listened.

Duaner Sanchez sucks. But at least correctly bieng used in a mop up role now.

Duaner Sanchez sucks. But at least correctly bieng used in a mop up role now.

So much for monogrammed shorts in the Urbina household...

Jose, you can go ahead and let that hit you.

399 - it would actually be smart to be worse thn the giants if we give up on this year... then we will get a better waiver deal!

This could be Valentin's last start in LF. :(

The good ole Win Expectancy Calculator gives us a 3% chance of winning this game.
vr, Xei

404- Hate to break it to you, but Sanchez has been our most effective reliever this year.

409 Hell, I hope it's Valentin's last start period. A .176 batting average?!? And he's batting sixth?!?

Did we really expect to win 2-1? How often has that happened?

does the WEC account for Wagner?

o my god dioner got a hit

I too was wondering about how long this Jose Valentin experiment was going to go on... then I realized how many "experiments" have gone on this season. We definitely lead the league in experiments.

CHANT THE CHANT! he is here

Why was Abreau playing Navarro so far back? Does Dioner have a power rep.?

412 - Small sample size. If you take Valentin, you've got to accept that some point in the season he'll be hitting .175. I'd take 30 home run power in exchange for that.

Feel bad for Penny. He deserves better.

413 Not very often but I'm willing to bet we'd have a better chance if we kept Penny out there. 150 pitches won't hurt anybody...

Not to get our hopes up, but it's up to 4% now after the single. Let's see if Choi can hit a grand slam with one man on base!
vr, Xei

414. Nope. vr, Xei

420 - atleast he is not on your fantasy team... the bullpen is killing me in two ways!

I have this see-saw relationship with Duaner Sanchez. I still think he is useful.

I hate Valentin. If he could slug, I could do the low BA. But he's OPSing Repko/Izturis/Phillips type numbers. Useless.

411. In close and late situations, Sanchez OPS against is well over .955. Thats covering 126 plate appearances against.

If thats our best reliever, we are in trouble.

426 - Yeah, pretty much. I'm not happy about it, but he is.

He doesn't have 30 HR power. He has 10 HR power.

414- Nope, it also doesn't account for the scrappy batters he's going to mow down. It's derived (I take it) from historical data: how often in the history of the MLB has a team down four in the bottom of the 8th come back to win.

419 91 AB this season is a small sample size? And I'm glad you'd take 30 home run power. He has 2 in 91 AB. Extrapolate Valentin's numbers out to 300AB and he still sucks. Quit appreciating mediocrity.

Tough luck on the BABIP for Choi.
vr, Xei

Repko flies out with far more baseball savvy than Choi just did. What is Tracy thinking?

whats our percentage now?

Ledee has an extremely tender hamstring...does that mean Edwards in RF in the 9th? Or do we put Ledee out there so he can hurt himself?

Steve, in the last three years, Valentin has averaged 28 home runs.

Choi just bought himself another week of bench time.

now whats our win percentage?

revenge is a bitch

That makes keeping Schmoll in after the Burrell homer really stupid

Nice. Too bad Choi didn't get on.
vr, Xei

What in the world is with Ricky Ledee?

last chance

So much for a 4th Izzy walk. Robles-Bradley-Kent-Saenz must get 2 runs against Wagner

WEC is up to 6.6% headed into the 9th inning. The Schmollacking we took last inning sure killed us. vr, Xei

430 - Yes, 91 at bats is a small sample size. Do you remember what Eric Chavez, Vernon Wells, Victor Martinez, and others were hitting with 91 at bats this year?

Valentin isn't my first choice, by any means, but, if he put up his career numbers, he'd be well worth it.

i am chanting the hee-seop chant for every dodger hitter... desperate measures for desperate times

The Dodgers season has officially ended tonight. Play the rookies and Choi, wait til next year

But at least we got 3 at bats from our late-inning defensive-replacement worst-hitting outfielder. What kind of a manager has a better team on the bench than on the field?

Come on BULL, no runs.

IS IT POSSIBLE? WE'RE ONLY 2 DOWN.

Was Tracy fallen asleep in the 8th. Like Steve said, using Schmoll for 35 pitches is unforgivable when he was getting bombed tonight.

He's slugging .300! If you're going to hit .170 (at least Choi is around the .250 mark), it's not like you have a lot of leeway to make yourself useful.

Tracy, you idiot. I knew Broxton was coming in.

broxton is throwing gas

Stats vs Wagner

Robles: never faced Wagner
Bradley: 0-1, K
Kent: 1-6, 3 BBs, 3 Ks
Saenz: 0-1

Drew: 5-12, 2B

Our only hitter who can come anywhere close to hitting Wagner is hurt (Edwards is 1-1 with a double, but we need 7 men before him, which would guaruntee a tied game)

342- RDGC? What does that mean? Where do you get these statistics?

Very true, 2005 Jose Valentin is very bad. I don't think he would drop off this much from his career numbers however.

It's too late to play a waiting game, but, had Jose Valentin played the whole year, I'm confident he'd reamin a useful player.

447 - u r right.;.. next year we go all the way, because DePo signs great FAs!

452 Actually, Robles is 0-1 with a K

Broxton was 0-2...

can navarro throw out rollins?

Chavez, Wells, and Martinez are all under 30 and rising stars (well, maybe not Wells, but he's younger). Valentin is 36. I'm not arguing whether he was a good signing in March. What I'm saying now is that he is not coming back next year, he is not the future, there is no reason to play him, and when he does play, there is no reason to overrate him.

We now have Cruz to replace Valentin.

navarro had no chance at rollins... lofton gave a favor by swinging

447 That wouldn't be productive. We need to play Phillips and Valentin (at 3rd). We must, there's no other choice. But Repko will continue to play as much as possible

459 - Very true.

theres your answer. stupid lofton.

Navarro finally has a good throw and Broxton did nothing to hold Rollins on 2nd

460 -- and I hope he does. What I fear is that Cruz will play OF and Tracy will move Valentin to third, thereby displacing Robles or, better, Perez.

Valentin is not the answer. He never was the answer and he never will be the answer. Plain and simple this was a bad signing in March and it is a worse signing now.

Should be a passed ball, but won't be

445 His career OBP is .322!!! That's below the Dodgers team average for this year! In what world does that not spell out SUCKS in 50-foot-high flaming letters?

454- Valentin has himself a .348 OBP. He's not totally useless, he just hasn't had as much power this year, and he's been hurt. His BA was supposed to improve since he was going to sit against lefties, but it hasn't. He's probably not worth $3.5 Million per, but if only he were the worst problem on the roster. Or, like, in the top three.

they said passed ball

they said passed ball

468 Spoke too soon, it's a PB

Navarro's defensive reputation is way overrated.

I retract. Passed ball.

Damn that was ugly. Broxton needs some control. And I'm not sure what Navarro was thinking out there?

Stolen bases- fine maybe they come off the pitcher.

But you cant have a pass ball to let the run come in.

I HATE BEING AN OBSESSED DODGER FAN!

I'll accept Phillips coming back if he only catches.

Its a bloodbath. Is there an ML mercy rule?

Carrara in the pen. 3 runs just isn't enough

SO MUCH!

Is Carrara warming up? I guess it's really over now.

The passed ball was academic since Utley doubled.

I'm feeling that I was oversold on Broxton by the Jacksonville Suns Marching and Chowder Society.

BREAKING NEWS: Carrara injects small portions of human growth hormones in his hot dogs in the bullpen. That means Gio does A LOT of steroids. Same with Wilson Alvarez.

Didn't you guys read the paper this morning. Gio is really a good pitcher. Its just a mechanical problem with his delivery. The Times said so it must be true.

Broxton has the Houlton disease...he gives up some runs early before dominating. If only he cured that little problem...

Our most disappointing performances this year must be our relief pitching.

That's why SD will win the division.

Broxton continues his ownership of NL All-Stars, but walks alleged All-Star Jimmy Rollins. Yeesh.

Is there an ML mercy rule?

No, but we can always hope for an earthquake.

The only good thing about Gio is we dont pay him jack.

wow! Just noticed that King Felix pitched 8 shutout innings for the Ms tonight. Sure wish we had some pitching prospects. vr, Xei

LOL, broxton owns the opposing team's MVP.

in his 3 innings of work, he's struck out pujols twice and now abreu once.

too bad he hasn't been as effective against the other guys.

LAT - r u kidding or not... i cannot tell because the times is pretty dumb

A typical DT commenter, watching this game:

http://www.jwz.org/images/love_your_job.gif

Nice effort.

y didnt valentin dive?

Valentin was all over that blooper. Was it his first six steps that were back before he came in?

Dive? Why didn't Valentin run?

489. Jim, don't say that. Remember Frank stopped the retro-fit project at DS. Maybe a rouge tornado or hurricane can end this thing.

494 -- that's because they keep coming out of acceptance

494 That was great!!!! But likely true.

Antonio Perez could've caught that one. Speaking of which...

493 - i cannot tell because the times is pretty dumb

Take it back, or you will be Plascke'd.

So what are the odds we score 4 runs off Wagner? The Indians scored 11 runs in an inning today, so it's not impossible. Although the difference between MacDougal/Gobble and Wagner is pretty big

WEC giving us a 1.7% chance of winning this game. And No, the WEC does not take into account Billy Wagner, Jim Tracy or a possible Jason Phillips pinch hit role into consideration. :) vr, Xei

I just didn't think Valentin had a good read on the ball. It wasn't hit hard and looked funny coming off the bat. And Valentin isn't an outfielder by trade.

493 - I AM SORRY I DID NOT MEAN TO UPSET BILL PLASDJKHDKE!

At least our relief pitchers leave no doubts about any comebacks.

499 - There's not enough red clay in our soil to make for a rouge tornado, methinks :)

502 -- Exactly. That's what all this frustration stems from. Like Perez couldn't misplay a blooper into a run-scoring single, but at least he might actually put the ball in play every once in awhile. Same with all the other bizarre and generally fake excuses Tracy gives for doing stupid things.

And the difference between the Indians and the Dodgers is...

493 Yes I was kidding. We got lucky last year in that Gio pitched way above his head. we should have cashed in our chips and left the table.

I bet Brad Penny sure didn't think it would take 9 runs to win the game when he left. Or maybe he did. vr, Xei

506 - dont make an excuse for jose, he is just old

Perez buys another week on the bench. Striking out against Billy Wagner is so unclutch. Not scrappy. What else can I think of? Doesn't say much about his defense either.

AP would have had a walk had he laid off that last pitch.

LAT - good, good. i got scared for half of a second

Let's see if Kent can atleast get a BABIP.
vr, Xei

Now we need Kent, Saenz, and Valentin to walk so Navarro can knock it out

When I went to a CFL game last week, the guy in the stands in Toronto asking a trivia question asked a fan "How many points for a rogue?"

Now, I'm an American and watch real football with four downs and stuff and I know that in Canada you get a rouge, not a rogue.

Our relief pitching is officially in Backdraft mode.

I think I'd have an easier time buying in to acceptance if Tracy's hot daughter (while scrubbing my back) were selling it, instead of Steve. I know Mr. Baseball wasn't a great movie, but it's a guilty pleasure of mine.

Can Jeff Kent make contact tonite? We shall see.

You know what's most infuriating? A guy who the Snakes toss aside like so much gutter trash is an upgrade, both offensively and defensively, in left field for us.

Please, lord, let the purges come early this year...

Will one of our relievers pitch another perfect inning this year? My money is on Repko after the pen has given up 10 runs in a game

now that the season is over, lets start the countdown to next year...

I was just in Claremont last week...

499 Jim, by now you should know I can't type my own name correctly:) Rogue Rogue Rogue!

Strawberry K'd five times in Montreal against Chris Nabholz, Scott Ruskin, and Steve Frey.

Bill Russell did it in Philadelphia against Ken Reynolds and Woody Fryman.

Send Broxton down-he looks like he has potential, but he must survive two tests. One is premiture ejapromotion, and the other the mighty cheeseburg. As I have often said at this time of year(but not recently) Hockey season's coming soon!!

Phillips up for Valentin. I hope we can tie this so Phillips/Weaver plays LF

524 - ofcourse he is a defensive upgrade... he has a gold glove

Jason Phillips swinging a bat in the on deck circle. How fitting. vr, Xei

Acceptance. Mmmm... tastes like chicken.

He swung at ball 4. We had a chance...

527- And did you stop by to scrub my back? No, you didn't. Tease.

WHY AM I A DODGER FAN? What did I ever do to God, huh?

Steve: Enjoying acceptance since June 2, 2005 (I looked it up.)

You are, as always, a good sport, LAT!

This is one of those times that I wish I liked basketball/hockey/football more.

Our bullpen is a rouge's galley:)They are rouge cause they should be embarrassed

How was Sean Gren tonight?

Cheer up gang. Tomorrow's has finally come for Tracy to employ his dream lineup, chuck full of scrappy goodness.

SS- Izzy
3rd- Robles
CF- Bradley
2b- Kent
1b- Phillips
LF- Valentin
RF- Repko
C- Navarro
Pitcher

Saenz, Choi, AP, Ledee, Cruz Jr all will be on the bench, lol.

Going to the game tomorrow. Don't really want to go right now.

What are the odds we win if we keep Penny out? What are the odds Penny gets hurt? Because if the first is greater than latter by a nice margin....

LAs NFL team is better than the Dodgers. I know we do not have an NFL team, and that is my point.

Funny when I agree with Jim Tracy and Kevin Kennedy disagrees. Let Penny blow out his arm so we can finish third. Thanks guys.

This is one season where 162 games is 62 games too long.

543 It's obvious Kent needs a game off. I'm guessing this is more accurate:

SS Izzy
2B Robles
CF Bradley
1B Phillips
3B Valentin
LF Edwards
C Navarro
RF Repko
P Lowe

This is actually a really good example of what passes for baseball analysis on Fox right now. Amazing that when something didn't work out, all of them would have done the opposite, regardless of what they might have said about the same thing the day before when the same strategy worked.

This is also known as the "Joe Morgan Syndrome"

Per the Pythagorean Theorem, we have won one more game than we should have. We're on track for a 71-91 record, if you can believe we're actually going to win 21 more games.

Our starters will have to start throwing CG to win.

538 - July 4, 2005

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/205764.html

reinforced July 14, 2005

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/210886.html

542, Steve, Green: 2 AB, 1 hit, 1 BB.
The only interest the Dodgers hold for me right now is as a SD spoiler. If Blue doesn't win I'm pulling for D'Backs. Not just cause of SG but I like the worst to first story.

SCSR "For those fans who were upset the Dodgers didn't make a big move at the trade deadline, there is good news. Today the Dodgers acquired Jose Cruz Jr."

Did I miss the part of the stroy where he was DFAed by Backs and then by Red Sox 2 weeks later. You folks looking for the big move. You must be feeling better now.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care about getting Cruz one way or the other, its just the lame way the SCSR reports it.

I think removing Penny was the right move. Why risk injury? Schmoll/Broxton/Braz need to learn right now, since were already 7 games out.

Plus, its no sure thing Penny would have gotten through the 8th. He only K'ed 4 tonite, gave up a lot of fly outs. He wasnt exactly dominating the Phils.

Schmoll came within 1 out of getting the job done. Struck out Abreu. Just didnt have enough.

Does anybody else feel that they are recieving anger management problems from Dodger games?

Goodnight. It is a cruel, cruel word when the thought of Kevin Malone even enters the fringes of my brain as a somewhat good idea.

I only hope that the Dodgers finish ahead of the Giants.

That will be one gruesome race to watch.

Jon: where does Cruz fit into our lineup?

Mike Megrew is set to pitch for the GCL Dodgers on Friday. He had Tommy John surgery at the end of last season.

555 -- Can't stop Shawn Green, you can only hope to contain him. And apparently Juan Encarnacion. Must be a...you guessed it...smells...like...a...contract year!

Good news! WEC gives us a 51.6% chance of winning tomorrow's game. Three cheers for useless statistics and relief pitchers.
vr, Xei

562 How do we have the better chance? We may be able to take Thrusday's game, but tomorrow's will need to be a CG Lowe shut out. Remember, Phillips will be in the lineup

guess what? we get to here the wisdom of Jim Tracy! Next on the SCSR

560 Great news. Now Ketchner needs to pitch at some point...

559 - Tracy said in the pregame that Ledee's hamstring is really bothering him again, so that's the ostensible reason for the pickup. I'm sure you'll see Cruz start in the outfield most games until/unless he proves himself incapable in Tracy's eyes.

Unless Valentin is moved to third base, I would expect to see Cruz bat sixth when Saenz plays, maybe even fifth when he doesn't.

But that's just off the top of my head.

This thread got big fast. I guess gas can relievers really make people talkative

DePo will sign somebody this offyear who walks and plays good fundamentals (Brian Giles?). we cannot give up on him after only one full offseason.

566. Check out these Jim Tracy quotes from Dodgers.com

On Jose Cruz JR:

Manager Jim Tracy said Cruz will OCCASIONALLY start, along with providing options off the bench.

"He's not a stranger to the Major League level," said Tracy, who has been using a lot of strangers to the Major League level this season. "I've seen him play a dynamic center field. There was a time where his tools were absolutely electric. He was a very highly touted, talked-about player."

Cruz has 187 career home runs, is one of three players in history to hit 30 homers and steal 30 bases in the same season, and was a Gold Glove outfielder in 2003. Initially a center fielder, Dodgers general manager Paul DePodesta said scouting reports suggest he is now better suited for the corner outfield positions.

So Tracy says Cruz will occasionally start... Despite: " DePodesta said Cruz's recent play compares favorably with his earlier years. His .783 on-base plus slugging percentage is higher than that of Dodgers starters Cesar Izturis, Jason Phillips, Jason Repko, Oscar Robles, Jose Valentin and Werth."

Only the Dodgers can field a bench- (Choi, Perez, Ledee, Saenz) that is a gazillion times better than the regulars.

567. In the "juiced post era" a few weeks ago we were hitting over 700 posts in one thread. This thread may not have reached that goal, but it was a scrappy and sometimes even savvy thread nonetheless. vr, Xei

Why not bat Cruz leadoff (despite Izturis' amazing performance tonight)? Cruz can get on base and has good XBH power. He also works the count well.

569 - DePo should be the manager and GM. Tracy is an idiot who thinks tools and not statistics. The only reason DePo does not fire him is because he wants to keep Wallach and Colborn, who are very loyal to Tracy.

570 - XF, we missed you on The Night Of 750 Comments. Durned vacations.

Anyone know why Andy LaRoche hasn't played the last two games?

574 Hit in the wrist by a pitch. X-rays were negative, but he'll be out with swelling for a few days a la Phillips

Just got home from the ravine.

To: The fan who sat behind me ("directly behind home plate", last two top rows in the top deck) with a radio, allowing me to enjoy Scully's dulcet tones for innings 1-3... thank you.

To: The evil woman who wouldn't let me and my two friends go down to the loge level in the 9th inning... screw you.

To: The jerk who left nachos on his seat, allowing accident-prone me to stick my right foot in them while trying to get comfortable... clean up after yourself.

To: Jeff Kent... HIT THE BALL!

To: The DodgerThoughts readers... Hey, fellas - got any room there on the 'acceptance' bench?

Just imagine if JD Drew had been in the lineup the last six weeks. We would have been even worse.

572

I have a theory on DePo not forcing Tracy's hand. I'm not sure that I believe it myself as it is wild-eyed speculation.

DePo isn't forcing Tracy's hand (Choi, Phillips, Perez, etc) because he respects the "I acquire players, you figure out how to use them" manager-GM relationship. If Tracy doesn't figure out how to use the players that DePo acquires, hopefully he can find someone who can.

Also, I think that DePo isn't getting in Tracy's way with how he uses the players because it sets a bad precedent with future managers.

Maybe DePo has his eye on a manager(s) that he really wants but knows that if he gets in the manager's way this season, it may turn off his "guy".

Besides, with the injuries, Tracy kind of has the upperhand in the relationship right now. As other DT readers have commented, if Tracy gets fired someone (looking at you Mr. Plaschke) is going to write or comment that Tracy was dealt a bad hand this season and DePo is at fault.

The way things have gone right now, this season is pretty much a lost cause. Why alienate future employees by forcing your will on a guy that sort of has the advantage?

In a way, this is similar to standing pat at the trade deadline. There is no reason to push a bad lie at this point in time.

ps... If Tracy is back next year and making the same questionable moves, I'll retract the above statements and question DePo while I'm at it.

Bring out the pooper scooper.....

This team stinks.

I just read about the Jose Cruz Jr pick-up and just don't get this team at the moment nor do I understand the management decisions. The Dodgers are probably if not already elimintated from post-season this year. With all of the Tracy and DePo bashing that goes on it is probably alot more honest to just accept that injuries and a weaker bullpen than we thought have in my mind put the nail in the coffin. So with 51 games left down by 7, take on the brightest kids, let the world know that..instead of platoning Saenez and Phillips at first, platoon Choi and call-up Looney, give him a sample larger than 20 AB's in September-I think sadly most of the minor league pitching is not ready, but be creative with emphasis on the kids playing. Picking up Jose Cruz Jr. is not an answer for anything...Bob is right at this point we must beat the Giants.

Hi all. Went to the game tonight. Sorry. I'm now 0-6 or 0-7 this season. All my fault.

I went with a friend who is a Phillies fan. After Kent's 2nd strikeout, he said, "whaddya wanna bet Kent is one of the guys Gammons was talking about, about to be suspended for steroids? Head...not...in...game...." Kent sure did look horrible. I have no reason to think that this is true, but wouldn't Bonds enjoy that? For Kent to be suspended while he (Bonds) never is?

Ah well. I'm staying away from the Stadium the rest of the way. Might as well give the boys in blue a chance.

Nice bench tonight, huh? Feh.

581
Wow, you're worse than me! I'm 2-6, but both wins were come from behind wins in the ninth against the Giants.

Well, I will tip a cap to DePo for finally acquiring a 4th outfielder type. A bad one, but one nonetheless.

Maybe now Valentin can move back to 3B? Or Repko to the bench?

We already has a 4th outfielder type in Ricky Ledee.

If you think of Cruz as a 4th outfielder, then he is a very good one. Average defense, combined with an .800 OPS is solid (and better than the Angel's second outfielder.)

For awhile now I have been clinging to denial, but now that I finally let go I realize just how wonderful acceptance is. Now I can think about the future and hope that the youngsters will get a chance to learn some stuff. D Young, Slick fielding Willy and Kou might all get shots in September and now I won't have to worry about the silly ole division race. The young guns in the pen can blow a game or five and I can chalk it up to experience, even Yhency's utter regression seems ok since at least he will know he has to work on it over the off-season. Next year we will be good and the year after we might be great. This year we were ok-turned-awful with injuries, but after last night I can accept that, finally.

Funny, strange, this works on so many levels:

From the Daily News.

Not happy: Jason Phillips said his severely bruised left hand had completely healed and was mystified as to why he wasn't in the lineup Tuesday.

"If you find out, let me know," Phillips said.

Tracy said he wanted to give Phillips an extra day to rest the hand and that he would be in the starting lineup tonight at first base.

586 For some reason, Jason Phillips is slowly becoming a media darling. He seems to get interviewed a lot after games, on SCSR. It must be due to his quotable comments. Can't possibly be due to his good looks. ;-)

Choi needs to work on his English!!

I'm attending this Friday's and Sunday's games (first time back to Dodger Stadium in almost 25 years). I'll have to see how "lucky" I am for the team.

I refuse to jump into ACCEPTANCE until after this weekend.

587 For some reason most of the media is treating Phillips like this is a breakout performance. The man has a few homeruns and a couple of RBI's but he doesn't look like a good hitter or catcher by any unbiased standard.

I'm actually 5-3 this year, which is amazing considering what a black cloud I was for the previous three years. My best year ever attending games was 1994 in the Bay Area. I went to 7 or 8 Giants games, and they lost them all.

There's been some discussion here about kickstarting the youth movement. There should be no doubt, at this point, that the younger guys on the current team should play (um, Choi, for example). What I'm wondering, though, is what's the collective wisdom on having some of the AA studs follow Broxton to the show. If guys play six weeks at the end of this season, do they start the service clock toward arbitration? Are some of our guys close enough to their prime years that we'd be willing to start them anyway? I know we're pointing toward having guys like JtD, LaRoche, Young, etc, in place as starters by 07. What should be the plan for bringing them along in 05 and 06?

589 Phillips had a very good year in 2003. Then collapsed in 2004. Baseball Prospectus attributes the collapse due to the fact that 2003 performance was based mostly on BA. Phillips played about 70% 1B and the rest catcher, in 2003. So, maybe Tracy is hoping for a repeat of that performance.

The media is not on Choi's side. Phillips is not on Choi's side (over 1st base, I mean). "The enemy of my enemy is my blah blah" (not saying they're all enemies, just to get the saying down).

Cruz looks like one of those "make it look like we're trying to do something so we don't piss anybody off even more even though we our chances of winning are pretty low."

If Tracy said he would make an effort to start the bench players over the "starters" (Choi/Saenz, Perez, Ledee, now Cruz over Phillips, Robles, Repko, Valentin), it'd make it a lot easier to stay in denial.

will...what game are you playing? If you're playing with some Stats employees (Dan Ford by any chance?) are you playing one of their games, like ME? If so, would love to get you involved in a league in the better game...CE. rgds, will

3 cheers for Aaron (so far). Would it kill either of our 1 or 2 hitters to attempt to work out a walk? How many quick innings have Jeter/Cano engineered?

I actually like the Cruz Jr. deal, as long as we don't give up any prize prospects for him. He's a better player than he's been this year, and he's a damn sight better than a lot of the drek we have out there now. If Ledee really can't run, that leaves us with 1 legitimate OFer - Bradley. Cruz can't help but help. Well, unless he joins Choi, Saenz, Perez, and Ledee on The Best Damn Bench Show, Period.

Last night, Tracy benched 3 of his 5 best hitters. Saenz and Kent played, if you can call what they did "playing." Moreover, 2 of those guys, Choi and Ledee, were lefties, sitting against a wild and none-too-intimidating southpaw. Feh. And double Feh.

I like the Cruz deal, too... but I don't know how much it will help, especially of Tracy will only "occasionally" start him.

I read a while back that Gibby would be available as a pick up for managing next year, And they have been doing an awful lot of Gibson home run advertising lately, Does anyone know the validity of my claims?

Hey, did Fox use any of those promised goofy camera angles last night? I used binoculars at the game to search for the 'mound cam,' but was unsuccessful.

One observation from the game that might not have come thru as well on TV. When Broxton was pitching to the Philly rookie 1bman Howard, well, that was a battle of behemoths. Those guys are both so big, it looked like they were only 50 feet apart. Sheesh. One of them needs to sit on Scrapko. And Tracy.

The chimera angles were neat.

597. I dunno, but the idea doesn't excite me. I have a feeling that Gibson, with his "football mentality" will just be another "effort is everything, regardless of achievement" kind of "old-school" guy.

I can't believe Repko is still starting DESPITE his recent defensive tomfoolery. Misplayed 2 in LF in Pittsburgh, then another in RF. Last night, his speed allowed him to run down a couple balls to which he took terrible, zig-zag routes. He clearly tries hard, but going full speed, darn the consequences, is NOT always the best approach. If his one virtue was OF defense, I think he's shown now that he's really not very good at that either. Send him down to learn something.

Getting Cruz was a half-ass move if there ever was one. Maybe the guy has a little pop, but at this point in his career is a mediocre bench player that will have little, if any impact on the Blue's fast-fading playoff hopes.

Best thing to do is roll the dice with what we have- put Choi back at first, put Saenz and Ledee in the lineup, hope our SP's continue to be solid, and the rookies develop.

Warning -- about to reveal ignorance

So, what is a Player To Be Named Later? Is it that the teams have agreed, but there are reasons (contract issues, CBA issues) not to make the deal complete until a particular point in time? Is it just a media/press/message control thing? Is it that the teams actually haven't agreed on a player (but how can they make a deal if one side doesn't know what it's getting)? Is it that they've identified a group of players, and who the other side gets depends on some or other factor (like, they have a list of three players and the team gets the one that hits the best, or worst, or it just gets to wait a while and then pick whichever one it wants)?

??

600: If Repko is sent down then who plays? Brazoban? The kid made a few mistakes so what? The whole team is making mistakes dont take it out on the defenseless rookie(no pun intended). And Gibby would add a spark this team needs, maybe hire someone who's cool headed to comliment his passion.

jrslim: I really can't agree. And I'm, by the way, firmly in "acceptance." I think the point of the Cruz, Jr. move is that Ledee can't play the OF, because of his hammy. And Drew may not return this year. So we have one MLB-quality OFer. Tracy will not play Choi or Perez. Period. So, the question is, would you rather see Repko and Robles all the time, or at least add a legit OFer, albeit not a start, into the mix?

Thus, I don't think the point is a last-ditch effort to make the playoffs. I think it's to get the AAA guys LESS time, without having to start the clocks on any of the kids. And we don't really have any OF prospects anyway.

Cruz isn't great, but think of him as away of weaning JT off the crack-pipe that is Jason Repko. I think that'd be Steve's take on things, anyway.

My guess on Valentin, by the way, is that OF is much easier on his mending knee than 3rd base would be. I know I felt that way in softball after I messed up my knee. Much easier to run forward than to jump sideways.

595 - I actually like the Cruz Jr. deal, as long as we don't give up any prize prospects for him.

That's the crux. He's 31 years old and he's a free agent at the end of the season as well. Does this mean DePo wants to sign him or actually thinks we still have a chance at the division (a la Finley)?

DENIAL: That Cruz signing could be the kick start the Dodgers need.

ACCEPTANCE: What the hell is DePo signing Cruz for unless he got him for Henri Stanley?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/

good article on greg miller. nice big picture of him too.

604 - So, the question is, would you rather see Repko and Robles all the time, or at least add a legit OFer, albeit not a start, into the mix?

The answer to that from an ACCEPTANCE point of view is yes, I rather have Repko and Robles continue to get playing time. Like my previous post stated, if DePo really thinks this season is over, why trade for a 31 year old guy who is a free agent at the end of the year? Ergo, DePo is in DENIAL.

I think with a little luck, Jose Cruz Jr. could become the next Wayne Kirby.

Look at it this way Cruz owns Dodger stadium and we have more home games than away between now and the END sooo in all likely hood he should shine on like a crazy little diamond.

miller is warming up in the bullpen, should be coming in in the top of the 8th.

billingsley just pitched 7 innings of shutout ball. only one hit left the infield.

The "Player to be named later" is used when the teams want to make a deal right away, but can't agree exactly on what the other end of the deal is. The Red Sox had a short window to trade Cruz because he was designated for assignment. The Red Sox will likely be given a list of prospects by the Dodgers at the end of the year that they can choose from. How good those players will depend upon how well Cruz plays.

The answer to that from an ACCEPTANCE point of view is yes, I rather have Repko and Robles continue to get playing time. Like my previous post stated, if DePo really thinks this season is over, why trade for a 31 year old guy who is a free agent at the end of the year? Ergo, DePo is in DENIAL.

There is NO circumstance under which I'd rather see Robles and Repko get more playing time. Unless Robles does it in place of Izturis. Assuming Cruz is cheap (that we didn't trade anyone we'll regret losing), I see this as a signal to the fans to keep showing up for the last 6-7 weeks. Cruz makes the team marginally better, if he plays, and therefore marginally more likely to win some games. Not that that means we'll win the division, but it's still more fun to watch a team win, or at least have a chance.

And if, by some miracle, the Dodgers DO win this race to nowhere, I'd sure as heck rather have Cruz on the playoff roster than Repko. But really, I see this as a very cheap way to get a little better, playoff delusions or no, especially if Ledee can't play.

Finally, since we have no OF prospects, and Werth has regressed, and we know we'll need 4 legit OFers next year, maybe this IS an audition for Cruz to get one of those spots. Or, as someone suggested yesterday, a trading piece for the off-season.

miller is in. miller time baby!

I'm inclined to agree with GoBears.

I'd rather see Cruz than Repko out there. We could add payroll, so might as well, at least so the quality on the field isn't atrociously bad.

It'd be nice if we gave up Henri Stanley to get him. Sort of a "payback" from last year where DePo gave up an extra part for chump change. Maybe Theo is returning the favor.

611 Thanks -- So, if the Dodgers hand over a list that includes unreasonable prospects, what recourse do the Red Sox have? Can they go the Commissioner, or is it just a question of what comes around goes around? Or do the parties agree on guidelines that govern the level of prospect depending on what Cruz does? Needless to say, feel free to ignore if I've crossed the line from reasonable inquiry to dipsy rant.

Agree completely with 612. I highly doubt the price for Cruz is going to be anyone of consequence. What does playing time for Repko and Robles accomplish? They're not prospects now and aren't going to be in the future. So the Dodgers might as well attempt to do something marginally useful at little to no cost.

Of course, it doesn't matter, because the Daily News has anointed Cruz "maddeningly inconsistent" (like Choi!) and says that he'll platoon with Ledee and come off the bench. What a shock. Tracy SHOULD be starting an OF of Ledee (unless he's really hurt), Bradley, and Cruz every day, with Cruz leading off, but it won't happen.

Repko bradley Cruz = RBC or as i like to say Roaring Ball Crushers.

I've been told (by a fairly unreliable source) that DePo told someone the PTBNL is on the 40 man roster. If that's the case, then it will be Jackson, Rose, Ross, Hanrahan, Martin, Aybar, or Young, None of you have to believe me, I don't even believe me...

As for the Suns game, Billingsley looked good. Had 6 Ks and 2 BBs, but the hits I saw were hardly hit hard (I missed the one tha left the infield). Miller gave up some deep fly balls, but the first single was just a bad play by Guzman. Guzman and Ruggiano both have had a homer in the game

616 - I don't want to believe you.

I mean 618...

Hull in to pitch, so Miller only got one inning. The Suns starters have been ridiculously good in the last few games, giving up something like 2 runs in 42 IP

well if we gave up jackson, young, martin, aybar or even hanrahan for cruz i will go bananas.

guzman showing patience, drawing the bases loaded walk to the score the run.

Suns win their 6th straight, moving to within a game of Birmingham (they won the first half so they're going to the playoffs, I just want them to win both halves)

618 the "fairly unreliable source" was the LATimes.

Wow, over 600 posts, but I'll respond to #35. How did DePodesta "transform" the farm system when he's only had two drafts, as you point out in that same sentence? He's continuing the work of Dan Evans, he of the pink shirt affinity. Give credit where it belongs.

Wow, over 600 posts, but I'll respond to #35. How did DePodesta "transform" the farm system when he's only had two drafts, as you point out in that same sentence? He's continuing the work of Dan Evans, he of the pink shirt affinity. Give credit where it belongs. DePodesta does not deserve all of it.

625 Oh, I don't read the Times, but I don't exactly consider them reliable

from the times, depo told them the PTBNL could be on the 40 man roster. he didnt really say anything specific. i dont think its anyone worth caring about.

628 Neither do I.

#125: I also wanted them to acquire Cruz that year. I recall one particularly stunning catch he made on a LoDuca drive to quell a Dodger rally at (then) Pac Bell Park in 2003. His defense always impressed me.

Clearly he's declined, at least offensively, but he makes a decent back-up OF at this point. Ledee sounds like he might end up on the DL again very easily.

626-7: I think most of us around here give Evans lots of credit for the rejuvenation of the farm system. But DePo didn't JUST have those 2 drafts - he also picked up prospects in trading away salary, esp. Green.

But sure - Evans did good work on the farm.

Regarding players to be named later: I've always assumed that the GMs have narrowed the list down to a few finalists, but that they can't quite agree on which one by the time the deal needs to be complete.

If one GM screwed over the other by retracting the lists, I also assume they'd either be blackballed or that something's been recorded on paper beforehand.

the last 3 games, jackson, orenduff, billingsley have combined for:

21IP 5singles 0ER 4BB 18K

we need that kind of starting pitching to stay in this race if it's not too late

634 it looks like miller is going to be in the rotation soon, what a stud rotation that will be