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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Hoche Mama!
2005-08-16 09:02
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Tonight's Game

* * *

Glomming on to what others have written ...

  • What happened? Just a month ago, the Dodgers were in "no hurry" to sign 2005 top draft choice and college pitcher of the year Luke Hochevar. Now, all of a sudden, someone realized that the Dodgers lose the rights to Hochevar in eight days if he enrolls for his senior year at Tennessee.

    From Steve Henson in the Times:

    Sources on both sides say Hochevar is seeking $4 million, a deal similar to what Boston gave St. John's pitcher Craig Hansen, the 26th pick. The Dodgers have offered a little more than $2 million, which would make him the highest-paid draft pick in team history.

    "There is a certain number we will go to today, tomorrow or several weeks from now," said Dodger scouting director Logan White, who is handling the negotiations. "We really like Luke and his family and want him to be a Dodger. I think we are being tremendously fair."

    Another sticking point is that the Dodgers are reluctant to offer Hochevar a major league contract, which would require them to put him on the 40-man roster immediately. The Dodgers have several highly regarded minor leaguers to protect on the roster this fall to keep them from being taken in the Rule 5 draft.

  • Dioner Navarro has been certified with the hallowed off-day feature, both in the Times and the Register.

  • Former Dodger pitcher Carlos Perez was hit with a $15 million civil sexual assault judgment against him in his absence - assuming authorities can track him down in the Dominican Republic and enforce it.

    "Perez, whose lawyers withdrew from the case after he stopped communicating with them, now has 30 days to appeal," wrote Vincent Bonsignore in the Daily News. "If he doesn't, (plaintiff Amy) McQuillin and her lawyer will then try to collect on the $15 million, although their only recourse is to go after Perez's United States assets."

    "We're in the process of determining exactly what his U.S. assets are," said Steven Savolla, McQuillin's lawyer in the article.

    A related Dodger Thoughts piece from December 20 can be found here.

  • In the Calendar section of the Times, Lynell George has a feature on Wrecking Crew by John Albert, "a frank first-person account of a group of local ex-punks, addicts, graying rockers, party boys, nihilists and not-so-garden-variety ne'er-do-wells who get saved — by baseball."

    "As a kid, I was a member of the Dodger-Pepsi Fan Club," he admits, not sheepishly, over a lunch plate of crepes and over-easy eggs at a new, sort of Frenchified, shabby chic Silver Lake bistro. "You'd turn in your Pepsi bottles and you'd get a shirt and a ticket to a game. I'd go with my dad. It was part of growing up in Los Angeles, and I liked it," he says. "But then I became a 15-year-old punk rocker."

  • Having known success long enough to shame even musical theater performers in cat costumes, the Atlanta Braves rightfully earn this paean* from Rich Hammond of the Daily News - a story in some contrast to the quarter-hearted analysis of Paul DePodesta by Tony Jackson in the Daily News pages last week. "Schuerholz is not afraid to make bold moves and has the latitude to do so," Hammond writes.

    Note that as long as it is viewed from afar, change can be good. Of the 25 players on Atlanta's current active roster, 14 were not with the team in 2004. If you factor in that two catchers from 2004 are in the 2005 disabled list, that still leaves 12 new players on the division-leading team. Similar numbers in Los Angeles have provoked charges of civic treason.

    I'm not trying to oversimply things here. It all depends on who you bring in, and in the end, results matter. But there are those who have assaulted the Dodger front office for making changes without even considering the positives behind those changes - whatever the standings may tell you today.

    "They make very few mistakes in terms of evaluating players," Cincinnati assistant GM Dean Taylor told Hammond. "There have been very few players whose production has improved once they left the Braves."

    The same could actually be said about the decisions made by DePodesta's team.

  • If you have any comments on the changes to appearance of this website, please feel free to note them at Fairpole.

    *denotes first time I have ever used this word

  • Comments (649)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2005-08-16 09:58:45
    1.   Howard Fox
    stubhub has signed on as a sponsor for you? well done...
    2005-08-16 09:59:59
    2.   fanerman
    I'm not too worried about Hochevar getting signed... yet. I strongly doubt White and DePo will let him slip away. Of course if it's Friday and he's still not signed, then I'll be a little worried.

    Is it for sure Hochevar will go back to school if he doesn't get signed? If he wasn't going back, then we would have more time.

    2005-08-16 10:02:18
    3.   Howard Fox
    its Scott Boras we are dealing with, I can see DePo letting him go
    2005-08-16 10:02:41
    4.   Yakface
    Hmmmm, sign Hochever who wont be ready for coupla years for 4 million Geee i wonder what depo' is going to do, I think that kid sits for a long time waiting to be signed for 4 mil and MLB contract.
    2005-08-16 10:09:53
    5.   the OZ
    It's an intersting situation. In theory, we have enough highly-rated pitchers in AA and A+ ball that we don't NEED to pay a lot of money for Hochevar, and Luke is a talented and 'polished' enough pitcher with a year of collegiate eligibility left that he doesn't NEED to sign with us for less than, say, $4M and a MLB contract.

    I wouldn't be shocked if nothing got done.

    2005-08-16 10:13:16
    6.   FirstMohican
    Re Carlos Perez

    Another Ex-Dodger attempting to cement his status as a first-ballot Hall of Shame inductee... you guessed it... Todd Hundley.

    http://tinyurl.com/dhrg9

    2005-08-16 10:16:23
    7.   fanerman
    They knew when they drafted him that Boras was his agent and they'd end up in a situation like this (or should have foreseen it). It'd be a waste of a pick if they didn't sign him, since they should have seen this coming.
    2005-08-16 10:17:19
    8.   Mark
    SERENITY NOW!!!!

    Oh, and how has the appearance of the site changed? Looks the same in Safari.

    2005-08-16 10:24:31
    9.   Marty
    The site looked different on my home machine this morning, but at work, it's the same.
    2005-08-16 10:25:58
    10.   FirstMohican
    Does anyone care to explain or link to a page that explains what the rules are for minor league and major league contracts for draftees?
    2005-08-16 10:29:49
    11.   Xeifrank
    If the page comes up with a different font and color scheme, just hit the 'Refresh' button on your browser and it will go back to normal. vr, Xei
    2005-08-16 10:31:18
    12.   Marty
    6 Thanks for the link to the Hundley story. A friend's daughter used to be friends with Hundley's now 15 year old daughter when he was on the Dodgers. I remember he used to wait on my friend's driveway smoking when he would pick his daughter up. His wife was pretty wild according to my friend.
    2005-08-16 10:31:36
    13.   Xeifrank
    I think the Dodgers should offer Hochever similiar money as to the pitchers drafted ahead of him. Take the top three paid pitchers from the draft, average the $ and offer that to Hochevar. I don't think you should add him to the 40 man roster as part of the signing. If you aren't willing to offer him market value, then why draft him knowing who his agent was. vr, Xei
    2005-08-16 10:32:42
    14.   Eric Enders
    Navarro actually got the off-day puff piece thrice over, with Dodgers.com completing the triumvirate. Henson's and Gurnick's stories contain sections that directly contradict each other, mostly because Gurnick was unable to contain the hyperbole.

    Gurnick: "And, according to just about everyone who's ever seen him play, from reporters to scouts to ballplayers, catching prospects don't come any better than Navarro." [No sources cited for this assertion.]

    Henson: "Even in the Dodger farm system, another catcher is held in higher esteem by most scouts. Russell Martin, who is batting .315 with a .433 on-base percentage at double-A Jacksonville, has more athleticism, arm strength and power than Navarro.

    'Martin would take the job right now if the Dodgers called him up,' said a scout from another organization who spoke on the condition of anonymity. 'Navarro can be a solid major leaguer, but Martin is a franchise catcher. He'll be an all-star.'"

    -------------------------------------

    So, we've offered Hochevar the highest bonus in franchise history and he still wants twice as much? I say we call the bluff. Boras caved completely with little brothers Drew and Weaver, and will do so again if he's smart. Players returning for their senior year of college almost always get a lesser bonus by doing so. Literally the only reason to return to school is to spite the team that drafted you.

    -------------------------------------

    Re Carlos Perez, some folks at BTF were wondering whether his MLB pension can be garnished if he continues to hide out in the Dominican. It's a good question...

    2005-08-16 10:33:02
    15.   fanerman
    13 - I agree. I don't mind giving him market value. I'm more reluctant about the 40-man roster.
    2005-08-16 10:34:10
    16.   Jon Weisman
    8, 9 - the ads, the search function in the sidebar, and the login moved to the upper-right corner. For more details or to leave comments, go to fairpole.baseballtoaster.com ...
    2005-08-16 10:34:50
    17.   Howard Fox
    How is it determined which players must be on the 40 man roster and which do not need to be so as to avoid losing them in the Rule 5 draft?
    2005-08-16 10:35:48
    18.   Jon Weisman
    14 - "Literally the only reason to return to school is to spite the team that drafted you."

    Or, complete that degree in American Studies and embark upon an unlucrative writing career...

    2005-08-16 10:36:47
    19.   Eric Enders
    18 - Not that I would know anything about useless degrees and unlucrative writing careers. ;)
    2005-08-16 10:42:19
    20.   Yakface
    After the contracts Boras got for Lowe and Drew you would think any honest man would cut a fair deal when it comes to a Draftee.(no matter how good he did 1 year)
    2005-08-16 11:00:25
    21.   FirstMohican
    20 - I wouldn't want you representing me =)
    2005-08-16 11:12:41
    22.   bigcpa
    I for one hope we cave on Hochevar. I read he originally asked $5M from Colorado who considered him with the 7th pick. So we're already getting a 20% discount. The guy is the same age as Edwin Jackson- he could be in the 2007 rotation- get it done.
    2005-08-16 11:21:05
    23.   Yakface
    Speaking of Sir Edwin when does he pitch again?
    2005-08-16 11:21:28
    24.   bigcpa
    Anyone watch King Felix pitch last night? Talk about knee buckling, bat handle shattering, Bugs Bunny stuff. Made me wish Gagne could start next year.
    2005-08-16 11:25:21
    25.   jasonungar05
    off topic..but look at this quote from Schilling.

    ``You can't cost your team games trying to learn a job,'' Schilling said. ``You can't do that. There's no excuse for what happened.''

    unless of course you make one for yourself

    2005-08-16 11:40:15
    26.   Marty
    25. He was blaming himself for losing the game. Talking about how he is learning to be a closer
    2005-08-16 11:47:14
    27.   gcrl
    26 - or was he using the fact that he is learning on the job as an excuse, even though he says there is no excuse? if there is no excuse, why bring up the fact that you are "trying to learn a job"?
    2005-08-16 11:49:00
    28.   Yakface
    I just checked the 51's website EEEk. They are pretty bad.
    2005-08-16 11:52:35
    29.   Marty
    The full quote was:

    ''You can't cost your team games while learning to do the job," said Schilling, who has been closing for a month now. ''There's no excuse for that. This is a results-oriented business. Tonight was a horrible night for me."

    I just don't think that was him trying to excuse himself out of it.

    2005-08-16 11:53:49
    30.   Bob Timmermann
    Regarding the Dodger Pespi Fan Club, you didn't have to turn in Pepsi bottles, you had to turn in Pepsi bottle cap liners.

    It was fairly easy for us to get the necessary six because my father owned a store and would just save the caps from people who wanted their Pepsi bottles opened. When I visited my dad's store, I got very angry at people who bought Cokes instead of Pepsi when I needed my bottle cap liners!

    2005-08-16 11:58:45
    31.   jasonungar05
    thank u gcrl. thats my point too. like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth as usual. Of course Johnny Damon back him up

    ``He's not the Curt Schilling that finished last season,'' teammate Johnny Damon said. ``He needs some work, he knows it. He'll find it. Hopefully, he'll get another opportunity (Tuesday) and he'll close it out for us.''

    2005-08-16 12:05:54
    32.   Jon Weisman
    I think Marty's right. Schilling is unmistakeably shouldering the blame. He's preempting others for using the "learn on the job" excuse.
    2005-08-16 12:05:57
    33.   Eric Enders
    On the list of dumb quotes by Curt Schilling, that one's pretty far downt the list, IMO.

    (My seventh-grade grammar teacher would probably murder me for that last sentence, BTW.)

    2005-08-16 12:06:23
    34.   Jon Weisman
    32 - "from using," not "for using"
    2005-08-16 12:08:54
    35.   fanerman
    33 - I agree. (And I've seen worse sentences.)
    2005-08-16 12:12:37
    36.   gcrl
    32 - the last line of his quote does show that he blames his performance, not the situation he was in. i shoulda looked for the whole quote, not just the snippet.
    2005-08-16 12:16:08
    37.   Jim Hitchcock
    I got very angry at people who bought Cokes instead of Pepsi when I needed my bottle cap liners!

    That was you?!?

    2005-08-16 12:18:06
    38.   Jon Weisman
    I had never known anyone to choose Pepsi over Coke until I met my future father-in-law.
    2005-08-16 12:20:25
    39.   fanerman
    I like both, but I like Pepsi better.
    2005-08-16 12:21:48
    40.   Penarol1916
    I never understood how anyone really had a preference, but I'm one of those guys who just buys whichever one is on sale that week. And yes, my options do include the store brand and RC.
    2005-08-16 12:22:20
    41.   Bob Timmermann
    I wasn't allowed to drink soda and/or pop as a kid, so I only cared about the Dodger Pepsi fan club and the chance to sit in the Top Deck to watch a midweek Dodgers-Astros game.
    2005-08-16 12:22:53
    42.   Bob Timmermann
    The Great Western Forum used to serve RC exclusively.
    2005-08-16 12:28:28
    43.   gcrl
    my name is jim, and i am a diet coke-aholic. diet pepsi tastes like soap.
    2005-08-16 12:30:43
    44.   fanerman
    hi jim
    2005-08-16 12:32:05
    45.   Eric L
    My name is Eric and I'm a diet Pepsi-aholic, though I don't mind diet coke.

    When I decided to switch to diet, I started drinking diet pepsi cause that's all we have in the machine at work.

    2005-08-16 12:37:48
    46.   LAT
    Grew up on Coke and Dr. Pepper. Hated Pepsi. As an adult with a refined sophisticated pallet I developed a taste for Pepsi and now actually prefer it. Hate Dr. Pepper now (carbonated prune juice, ya know:) ). Still waiting for the day they introduce Diet Hawaiian Punch or Diet Cactus Cooler.

    I say let Hochevar go if he won't come down in price. Part of my reaction is the product of the T.O. Rosenhause debacle. (Which as an aside I don't understand why ESPN and everyone else treat as a national debate topic:
    Should we be in Iraq?
    Should Israel be giving back Gaza?
    Why did the Greek Airliner lose cabin pressure? and
    What should the world do about the T.O. Eagle dispute?)
    Who cares about T.O.
    The guy signed an extension last year. Honor the contract. I would like to see Philly pay and release him and the other owners agree to not pick him up. I have no problem with his on field antics but he is hurting his team and his agent is giving him bad advice. You signed a contract T.O. be a man, honor it.

    Luke, Boras is not your father, ignore him

    I'm done on this topic, sorry for the rant.

    2005-08-16 12:39:12
    47.   Jeromy
    My name is Jeromy and I'm addicted to Pepsi One.
    2005-08-16 12:41:09
    48.   Penarol1916
    My sad admission is that I combine diet colas with Orange juice
    2005-08-16 12:41:10
    49.   Penarol1916
    My sad admission is that I combine diet colas with Orange juice
    2005-08-16 12:43:40
    50.   Eric L
    46

    Though not Dodger related (or baseball for that matter), with NFL contracts not being guaranteed (except for the signing bonuses) I can understand the players frustration.

    That said, TO is acting a fool right now.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2005-08-16 12:45:01
    51.   Jim Hitchcock
    Showing my age, as a kid it was RC...16 oz. bottles as opposed to 12 oz. for every other choice. Sort of presaged the Beta/VHS marketing debacle.

    Later on, as my sophistication(?) grew, I chose Wink or Squirt.

    But, have to say it, now I really really love Arizona Green Tea...

    2005-08-16 12:45:13
    52.   LAT
    49 Is that a colmosa instead of a mimosa
    2005-08-16 12:46:27
    53.   Jim Hitchcock
    48/49 deserves a special YUCK award.
    2005-08-16 12:48:47
    54.   LAT
    50 Eric. Good point about the guaranteed contract. I also forgot to add that its hard to have too much sympathy for the Eagles. This should not be a total suprise to them.

    When you lay down with dogs. . .

    2005-08-16 12:49:15
    55.   Icaros
    How about drinking orange juice immediately after brushing your teeth?
    2005-08-16 12:49:36
    56.   fanerman
    Penarol1916, congratulations! The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem.
    2005-08-16 12:51:09
    57.   Penarol1916
    50. Completely agree about NFL players with unguaranteed contracts. I also don't think that the TO comparisan with Hochevar is applicable since it appears that he was asking for a very high price fromt he get-go, so it's really the Dodger's fault if they don't get him signed.
    And yeah 53. that combination may seem disgusting, but it is surprisingly refreshing.
    2005-08-16 12:51:44
    58.   Jim Hitchcock
    Should we be in Iraq? No
    Should Israel be giving back Gaza? Have to see how it plays out. Something has to bw done
    Why did the Greek Airliner lose cabin pressure?* A hole in the plane.
    What should the world do about the T.O. Eagle dispute?) Yawn
    Who cares about T.O. I'd rather people payed more attention to B.O.
    2005-08-16 12:52:10
    59.   Penarol1916
    54. You sound like Skip Bayless.

    55. Now that is disgusting.

    2005-08-16 12:56:14
    60.   Icaros
    If Jon's title for today's post is a glimpse into the kind of headline puns the local papers have in store for Hochevar, maybe it'd be best to just let him go.

    I don't know if I could stomach those along with the Penny and Lowe-isms.

    2005-08-16 13:00:10
    61.   Telemachos
    If it was Skip, he'd be blathering on about the awesomeness of Diet Mountain Dew ("The Drink of Kings!") and reminding folks about his (not one! not two! but) THREE bestsellers.
    2005-08-16 13:01:44
    62.   LAT
    54. Don't really follow Skip Bayless. Don't really follow NFL. But I just don't get why in the middle of Baseball season, with the playoff race just starting (or maybe ending for some of us) TO is the lead sports story every night this week. Just when I thought the obsesive reporting peaked with the Yankee/Red Sox. Anyway, I said I'd drop it so I will.

    Back to baseball, does anyone know what "the personal reason" was that Odalis left the team.

    2005-08-16 13:02:11
    63.   Eric Enders
    Speaking of strange headlines, did anyone else notice that yesterday's quoted headline (Ped-Woe) seemed to inadvertently accuse Pedro of using steroids?
    2005-08-16 13:03:03
    64.   LAT
    60 At least we don't have to deal with the Dunn punns.
    2005-08-16 13:04:33
    65.   Icaros
    At least we don't have to deal with the Dunn punns.

    Those would have been worth it.

    2005-08-16 13:05:00
    66.   fanerman
    60, 64 - Add Dunn and Hochevar to a team with Saenz, Werth, Lowe, Penny, even Choi, and the possibilities are endless!
    2005-08-16 13:06:01
    67.   Bob Timmermann
    Referring to Jon's use of the word "paean".
    This is from an L.A. Times article that ran May 5, 1990 about Lloyd Bucher who commanded the U.S.S. Pueblo. He and his crew were captured by North Koreans in 1968.

    "Bucher's favorite was a confession he wrote, trusting that the North Koreans would find in their English-language dictionaries that an obscure noun he was using as a verb meant nothing more than a song of praise--and that Americans back home would read the word phonetically: "We not only want to paean the North Korean government," Bucher wrote in blissful rhapsody, "but to paean the North Korean people as well."

    2005-08-16 13:06:40
    68.   db1022
    Coke Zero!
    2005-08-16 13:09:39
    69.   Icaros
    Coke Zero!

    The Coke soldiers were handing out free samples of that stuff at CSULB a month ago.

    Tasted like something that would clean my kitchen floor very well.

    2005-08-16 13:11:12
    70.   db1022
    I think it tastes a lot more like diet "Coke".

    Diet Coke tastes like "Diet Coke"

    2005-08-16 13:11:42
    71.   jasonungar05
    A guy I work with will only drink Pepsi and he hates Coke. That is, unless it's DIET where he drinks Diet Pepsi and hates Diet Coke.

    now thats crazy.

    2005-08-16 13:13:20
    72.   jasonungar05
    oops, I meant he drinks diet coke and hates diet pepsi. never mind. LOL
    2005-08-16 13:15:26
    73.   Jim Hitchcock
    If only I was lucky enough to have lime and avocado trees in my backyard, all my needs would be met :)
    2005-08-16 13:15:46
    74.   Monterey Chris
    Bob--

    Was your dad's store in Granada Hills? I grew up there and bought many soft drinks from small stores when I was growing up. I am now worried that I offended you with my drink selection and should be avoiding you for the rest of my life.

    2005-08-16 13:15:48
    75.   Icaros
    How about a warm Diet 7-up on a hot summer day?
    2005-08-16 13:15:54
    76.   FirstMohican
    69 I thought the Coke Army was only in Columbia - were the CSULB Coke bottlers slacking off?
    2005-08-16 13:18:02
    77.   Jim Hitchcock
    How about a warm Diet 7-up on a hot summer day?

    What, you think foam coming out of your nose is funny?

    2005-08-16 13:19:16
    78.   Icaros
    76 - I think this was just an ROTC unit.
    2005-08-16 13:20:23
    79.   Icaros
    What, you think foam coming out of your nose is funny?

    Funnier than foam coming out of a pitbull's mouth.

    2005-08-16 13:23:20
    80.   Bob Timmermann
    74
    My father's store was in North Hollywood at the intersection of Laurel Canyon and Roscoe. More like Sun Valley, but it had a North Hollywood ZIP code.

    If it were in Granada Hills, we likely wouldn't have been robbed quite as often.

    The store was demolished in the early 1990s after a truck hit it. A well-insured truck I may add.

    2005-08-16 13:25:54
    81.   Icaros
    Bob,

    Did it ever rain bullfrogs at your father's store?

    2005-08-16 13:25:56
    82.   Monterey Chris
    80

    Did you grow up in Granada Hills? My happiest days were spent on the fields of Granada Hills American Little League.

    2005-08-16 13:27:15
    83.   Monterey Chris
    Bob,

    Did you grow up in Granada Hills? My happiest days were spent on the fields of Granada Hills American Little League.

    2005-08-16 13:27:48
    84.   Jim Hitchcock
    Did it ever rain bullfrogs at your father's store?

    I think that phenomena was limited to Magnolia Blvd.

    2005-08-16 13:30:06
    85.   bokonon42
    84- And maybe Egypt.
    2005-08-16 13:30:34
    86.   Bob Timmermann
    81
    It did not rain bullfrogs there, but the neighborhoods P.T. Anderson use are very familiar to me.

    8283
    I was raised in Granada Hills, but did not play Little League baseball. My happiest days were spent at Alemany High playing CYO basketball for my elementary school. Actually, I rarely played. The coach had me keep stats. It was best for all parties involved.

    2005-08-16 13:36:08
    87.   Bob Timmermann
    ESPN.com's MLB page makes you think that the Giants and Yankees are discussing a Barry Bonds deal.

    But really it's just Buster Olney musing about how he thinks Bonds should become a DH.

    2005-08-16 13:39:36
    88.   Icaros
    But really it's just Buster Olney musing about how he thinks Bonds should become a DH.

    Wow, what a revelation. Next he's going to say the same thing about Mike Piazza.

    2005-08-16 13:40:33
    89.   Howard Fox
    did anyone have an answer to my question in 17 above?
    2005-08-16 13:40:38
    90.   fanerman
    Have you all noted that spelling Loney incorrectly may result in Olney?
    2005-08-16 13:41:55
    91.   fanerman
    noted = noticed
    2005-08-16 13:44:01
    92.   db1022
    87 - I said earlier in the year (before Bonds' medical problems looked to finish his year before it started) that the Angels should make a serious play for Bonds. Stoneman should do anything in his power to convince Sabean to take Ervin Santana and Casey Kotchman for Bonds.
    2005-08-16 13:44:59
    93.   Dave
    Regarding the Coke/Pepsi/RC discussion, if you have any problem with kidney stones and don't know it, cola of any kind is very high in calcium oxalates, the primary cause of stones. Now THAT's disgusting and painful.
    2005-08-16 13:48:04
    94.   LAT
    92 I don't think it could ever happen before Bonds breaks the record and that is likly two years away now. IIRC, the Gnats have and option for 2007. Can't see them letting him go so the Angels can cash in on the revenue generated by the Ruth and Aaron chase. Although Bonds has said he would consider the Angels. He wants to be in LA. His family is here and he lives here. And, of course, the Angels are now in LA.
    2005-08-16 13:48:29
    95.   Bob Timmermann
    89
    I don't understand the question. Teams just put players on the 40-man roster so they can't be taken in the Rule 5 draft. So, if they want to keep the player around, he goes on the 40-man roster.
    2005-08-16 13:48:29
    96.   Xeifrank
    Jim Tracy is probably an RC drinker. Doesn't taste as good but has lots more fizz, and a good Cola is all about the fizz. Jason Phillips must have alot more fizz than Choi. vr, Xei
    2005-08-16 13:48:53
    97.   gcrl
    17 - A player not on a team's Major League 40-man roster is eligible for the Rule 5 draft if: the player was 18 or younger when he first signed a pro contract and this is the fourth Rule 5 draft since he signed, OR if he was 19 or older when he first signed a pro contract and this is the third Rule 5 draft since he signed.
    i suppose anyone who falls in either of those categories that you want to keep need to be added to your 40 man roster (at the expense of someone else)

    thanks to google and espn.com

    2005-08-16 13:48:57
    98.   Jon Weisman
    "How is it determined which players must be on the 40 man roster and which do not need to be so as to avoid losing them in the Rule 5 draft?"

    A player is eligible for the offseason Rule 5 draft if he is not on the 40-man Major League Roster if he was 18 or younger when he first signed a pro contract and this is the fourth Rule 5 draft since he signed or if he was 19 or older when he first signed a pro contract and this is the third Rule 5 draft since he signed.
    A player drafted in the Rule 5 draft must remain in the majors, be it on the 25-man roster or the disabled list, for all of the following season, or the club that drafted him must return him to his original club. Since a player to is returned must first be place on waivers, a third club can claim the player. The claiming club would then be responsible to the same rules placed upon the team that drafted him in the Rule 5 draft.

    According to http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewDraftFaq.do

    2005-08-16 13:49:44
    99.   Jon Weisman
    Ooh, nosed out by :04
    2005-08-16 13:50:33
    100.   Bob Timmermann
    99
    Yes, but you have administrative privileges and you can delete other comments.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2005-08-16 13:52:06
    101.   Bob Timmermann
    In the game preview for tonight's Dodgers game on ESPN.com, there is an injury report.

    Both Choi and Kent are listed as missing Sunday's game with "rest" and their status is "questionable"

    That helps a lot too.

    2005-08-16 13:52:26
    102.   Howard Fox
    then, may I ask, why would Hochevar need to be on the 40 man roster immediately since he would be exempt from the draft...

    is it just because he has an inflated ego? if so, we don't need another Kevin Brown on our team, expecially an immature Kevin Brown...

    2005-08-16 13:53:13
    103.   db1022
    94 - I don't see Bonds being able to field his position well enough to break the record. I'm thinking that he's a fulltime DH on an NL team right now.

    If he were to go to an AL team, he might hit until he's 50.

    And, if the Angels and Moreno want to really stick it to the Dodgers, what better person to go get than Bonds?

    2005-08-16 13:54:18
    104.   Jon Weisman
    Who lives in Columbus, GA? Wednesday is Edwin Jackson bobblehead night, honoring the native son, for the first 500 fans.
    2005-08-16 13:54:24
    105.   Yakface
    HA Phillips has more fizz.... Classic.
    2005-08-16 13:55:11
    106.   Marty
    Coke zero's slogan should be "Because ours goes to zero"
    2005-08-16 13:55:11
    107.   Howard Fox
    103 - if they trade two or three of their top young players for Bonds, they are following in the footsteps of the Yankees, down the path of an older overpriced roster
    2005-08-16 13:56:35
    108.   gcrl
    it could very well be ego. being on the 40 man roster starts the option clock ticking (three option years before waivers are required), but i don't think the service clock starts just by being on the 40 man roster.
    2005-08-16 13:56:36
    109.   db1022
    107 - If you got 2 or 3 "Bondsian" years, that's not worth it? Not to mention the PR from the chase for Hank.

    That puts seats in the seats.

    2005-08-16 13:57:18
    110.   Icaros
    And, if the Angels and Moreno want to really stick it to the Dodgers, what better person to go get than Bonds?

    I wouldn't call it sticking it to the Dodgers if the Angels remove the best hitter ever from LA's #1 division rival.

    2005-08-16 13:57:22
    111.   Jon Weisman
    102 - I think it would purely be a Hochevar/Boras desire to accelerate his timetable toward wearing a major league uniform (and earning service time toward arbitration, free agency, etc.)
    2005-08-16 13:57:30
    112.   fanerman
    Can he continue his torrid pace? By next season, he'll be 2 years older than last year. If he's off the 'roids (a big if I suppose), isn't he due to well, regress?
    2005-08-16 13:58:31
    113.   fanerman
    In 112 - "he" = bonds
    2005-08-16 13:58:39
    114.   Howard Fox
    109 - they don't have trouble putting fans in their seata
    2005-08-16 14:00:58
    115.   Icaros
    Is "seata" Latin for "seats"?
    2005-08-16 14:01:00
    116.   Howard Fox
    111 - knowing Boras, that makes sense
    2005-08-16 14:01:10
    117.   db1022
    112 - Regressing to what? His bat speed has not slipped at all, its his knees that will end up causing him to hang it up.

    I've learned to not doubt Barry Bonds.

    2005-08-16 14:01:18
    118.   Howard Fox
    115 - no, hebrew
    2005-08-16 14:02:20
    119.   Howard Fox
    well, actually, yiddish
    2005-08-16 14:02:32
    120.   Eric Enders
    FWIW, I wouldn't give Hochevar (or any other draftee) a major league contract under any circumstances. If I were DePo, I'd be a lot more flexible on the money than I would be on that point.

    Howard, it's not necessarily about the player's ego... trying to bargain for a major league contract is something that almost all draftees of Hochevar's stature do. Almost all of them fail in that effort, as I hope he does.

    2005-08-16 14:03:14
    121.   db1022
    120 - Did Mark Prior get a ML contract?
    2005-08-16 14:03:20
    122.   Howard Fox
    112 - 2 years older than last year? thank g-d that doesn't apply to me
    2005-08-16 14:06:47
    123.   fanerman
    122 - Well, you're not a 40-something year-old playing baseball at an unprecedented level. I don't know. I suppose I'm playing devil's advocate for the giants or whichever team bonds ends up with. I'm not sure what to expect from him next season. Of course he can keep right on rolling, but it seems like a gamble, putting all your eggs in one basket.
    2005-08-16 14:06:52
    124.   Eric Enders
    Speaking of Edwin Jackson, if you're rich and enjoy hanging hideously ugly objects in your living room, I've found something for you:

    http://tinyurl.com/9exgb

    2005-08-16 14:09:00
    125.   Eric Enders
    121 - Yes, he did.
    2005-08-16 14:09:14
    126.   db1022
    123 - But what a gamble. Can you imagine Bonds at DH in the #3 slot, with Vladi hitting cleanup? Almost makes up for the fact that Figgins and Erstad would hit 1 and 2.
    2005-08-16 14:09:58
    127.   db1022
    125 - Is that common, or is it reserved for the "once in a lifetime" pitchers, that seem to come around every 5-10 years?
    2005-08-16 14:12:16
    128.   Howard Fox
    127 - unless you ask Boras, then they only come around when they sign up with him
    2005-08-16 14:12:21
    129.   Yakface
    Did anyone else know that Shawn Green Carried the Dodgers to the playoffs last year?
    2005-08-16 14:13:06
    130.   Jim Hitchcock
    So, Howard, can you translate the song title `I'm A Cranky Old Yank In A Clanky Old Tank On The Streets Of Yokohama With
    My Honolulu Mama Doin' Those Beato Beato Flat On My Seato Hirohito Blues' to Yiddish?
    2005-08-16 14:13:32
    131.   kent
    119- but is filling the seata worth all the meshugass
    2005-08-16 14:13:36
    132.   Howard Fox
    130 - can't everybody do that?
    2005-08-16 14:14:28
    133.   Howard Fox
    131 - yes, as long as you get the gelt to go with it
    2005-08-16 14:15:03
    134.   fanerman
    129 - What are you referring to? (I'm guessing a comment somebody made)
    2005-08-16 14:16:03
    135.   kent
    I'm just in it for the naches
    2005-08-16 14:16:35
    136.   Howard Fox
    as long as you stay away from the Dodger nachos
    2005-08-16 14:17:31
    137.   Marty
    Jim, is that a Hoagy Carmichael special?
    2005-08-16 14:18:06
    138.   Yakface
    134- It was a comment made by Jeff Moorad on MLB.com.
    2005-08-16 14:18:28
    139.   Eric Enders
    125 - I think it's best reserved for more of your once-in-a-lifetime pitchers. Also, some pitchers' careers have been derailed by the fact that they signed major league contracts and were therefore forced into MLB before they were ready. So I think teams are more reluctant to hand them out nowadays than in the past.

    One could argue that Boras is not acting in his clients' best interest by asking for major league contracts. It's the classic situation of choosing the short-end risky payoff over the chances of having a better long-term career.

    2005-08-16 14:18:53
    140.   Yakface
    Whats a good excuse to leave work an hour early?
    2005-08-16 14:20:27
    141.   kent
    136- a sof! a sof!
    2005-08-16 14:23:07
    142.   kent
    140- I'm civil service so a good excuse for leaving early today is that my schedule doesn't permit me to leave early tomorrow.
    2005-08-16 14:25:13
    143.   Yakface
    142-...
    2005-08-16 14:25:26
    144.   Marty
    140 Try "Today's my wedding day". It's always worked for me.
    2005-08-16 14:26:41
    145.   Marty
    If you need a real reason, just tell your boss you need to leave early. That should be good enough.
    2005-08-16 14:26:45
    146.   Eric Enders
    And unlike dead grandmothers, someone can get married an infinite number of times.
    2005-08-16 14:32:28
    147.   Icaros
    Why is there a limit on how many times a dead grandmother can get married?
    2005-08-16 14:36:51
    148.   kent
    140- Tell them you're having "eye trouble" (You just can't see sticking around).
    2005-08-16 14:39:18
    149.   Jim Hitchcock
    137 - That's the one, Marty. I remember it from a listing in the Guinness Book many years ago.

    One site I just checked had the author listed as Woody Guthrie. I don't think so.

    But the site also listed my favorite Pink Floyd title, `A Small Species of Furry Animals Gathered in a Cave Groovin' on a Pict'. To those who have never heard it, I recommend it. Strange stuff. Think the Chipmunks and their entire brood whoopin' it up on acid.

    Years ago, my cousins and I parked next to the walk in campsite at Yosemite called Yellow Pine, where all the dopers hung out. Put the (home) stereo speakers on top of the car, played the song at about 140 db., and...you never heard such dead silence as we did from the campers after the song had played.

    Cheap fun :)

    2005-08-16 14:40:47
    150.   Jacob L
    Yak, you have my permission to leave early.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2005-08-16 14:44:07
    151.   Yakface
    150- Sweet thanks.
    2005-08-16 14:46:14
    152.   db1022
    151 - Are you female? If so, it's easy.
    2005-08-16 14:47:28
    153.   Yakface
    Thanks for the suggestions, But I've decided that I'll just leave and tell my boss I was too stoned to work.
    2005-08-16 14:49:39
    154.   kent
    Yeah, thats just what people go to Yosemite for, to listen to someone else's stereo at 140db.
    2005-08-16 14:51:29
    155.   Jim Hitchcock
    154 - It was thirty years ago, we were young, and it was clearly a case of special circumstances.
    2005-08-16 14:52:25
    156.   Bob Timmermann
    155

    Jim,
    I think it's time you gave back Gram Parson's body too.

    2005-08-16 14:55:40
    157.   Jim Hitchcock
    156 - no can do, due to overexuberant use of petrochemicals.
    2005-08-16 15:01:28
    158.   Terry A
    Wow... finally able to comment.

    Sorry to re-hijack this thread and head back to its original topic, but was anybody else bothered by Henson's lead in today's piece on Navarro? "...dee owner of "dee territory..." or something like that.

    Way, way below Henson's (but not the Times') standards. I typically enjoy Henson's work.

    2005-08-16 15:01:44
    159.   Jon Weisman
    This will be the game chat thread.
    2005-08-16 15:02:27
    160.   Fearing Blue
    #98: Baseball America has it listed as number of minor league seasons instead of number of Rule 5 drafts before eligibility. The language might make a difference for someone like Greg Miller who missed a whole season due to injury. I haven't been able to determine how those types of injuries are dealt with.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/columnists/askbarule5.html

    2005-08-16 15:04:59
    161.   Jon Weisman
    158 - Welcome back!
    2005-08-16 15:06:39
    162.   overkill94
    Wow, almost a scrap-free line-up tonight

    Izturis
    Robles
    Bradley
    Kent
    Valentin
    Werth
    Choi
    Navarro
    Lowe

    Ledee instead of Valentin would be nice, but no Phillips is always a plus.

    2005-08-16 15:07:29
    163.   Bob Timmermann
    Random Dodger game callback

    August 16, 1969

    The Prodigal Shortstop, Maury Wills, hit his first career grand slam, as the Dodgers routed the expansion Montreal Expos, 9-3, before a crowd of 24,949 at Parc Jarry. The Dodgers were now 64-53 and just 1 ½ games behind the Cincinnati Reds in the brand new National League West Division.

    Traded to Pittsburgh after the 1966 season after refusing to join the Dodgers on a trip to Japan, Wills was picked by the Expos in the expansion draft. On June 11, the Dodgers traded Ron Fairly and Paul Popovich to Montreal to reacquire Wills along with outfielder Manny Mota. Wills was booed every time he came to bat in Montreal, whose fans were quick to develop grudges.

    The Dodgers were facing their old nemesis, Larry Jaster, in the game. Jaster threw five shutouts against the Dodgers for the Cardinals in 1966. But on this day, Jaster didn't have much. With one out in the first, Mota tripled to center and scored on a sacrifice fly by Willie Davis. Andy Kosco doubled to center and Wes Parker followed with a walk. Third baseman (in title only) Bill Sudakis then hit his 11th home run of the season to make it 4-0 Dodgers. Sudakis extended his hitting streak to 16 games. (It would reach 18.)

    Dodgers starter Claude Osteen started to give the lead back in the second. He gave up a double to Gary Sutherland and an RBI single to Bobby Wine. And in the third, the Expos rallied for two more runs when Bob Bailey walked and scored on a double by Coco Laboy. Rusty Staub singled home Laboy.

    But the Dodgers broke the game open in the fifth. Parker singled to lead off and stole second. Sudakis struck out and Ted Sizemore flied out. Jeff Torborg drew an intentional walk, but Jaster followed up with an unintentional walk to Osteen to load the bases. Then Wills took a Jaster offering over the fence in left to make it 8-3 Dodgers and temporarily silence the booing. Wills hit just 20 home runs in his 14-year major league career.

    The Dodgers added their final run in the 8th on an RBI single by Parker. Osteen went the distance despite giving up 11 hits to pick up his 16th win.

    After a couple of dismal seasons, 1969 was a pleasant surprise for Dodger fans. But it wasn't satisfying as the team finished 85-77 and 8 games behind the first place Braves and in fourth place. The NL West had a pretty wild pennant race with five of the six teams in the division in contention through much of September. Only the expansion Padres finished below .500.

    The Dodgers were an unlikely contender in 1969. They didn't have much power, hitting just 97 home runs with Kosco leading with 19. Sizemore was an unlikely, and mostly forgotten, Rookie of the Year, batting .271. Sizemore would be traded to St. Louis for Richie Allen in 1971.
    Sudakis was a much-heralded prospect, but he never did much for the Dodgers. He batted just .234 in 1969 with 14 home runs. The Dodgers also tried him at catcher in 1971, but he did not seem to be adept anywhere on the field.

    Wills batted .297 in his return for the Dodgers, but his best years were behind him. However, the player who came with him, Mota, was quite a find. He would go on to be one of baseball's greatest pinch hitters and even put together some good years when he was still fast enough to play in the field.

    The Dodgers had a pair of 20-game winners. Osteen was 20-15 with a 2.66 ERA and Bill Singer went 20-12 with a 2.34 ERA. Don Sutton was 17-18 with a 3.47 ERA.

    But after those three, the Dodger pitchers were suspect. Don Drysdale's arm gave out after 12 games and he had to retire. Alan Foster started 15 games and was 3-9. Jim Bunning was picked up from Pittsburgh in a waiver deal on August 15 and went 3-1.

    Jim Brewer led the team with 20 saves in the first year the statistic was officially kept. However, it was Singer who recorded the first official save in baseball history. On Opening Day in Cincinnati, Singer pitched the last 3 innings in relief of Drysdale as the Dodgers beat the Reds 3-2.

    The Dodgers season was pretty much ruined with an early September trip to San Diego. The Dodgers came in to San Diego on September 3, one game behind first place San Francisco (pretty much everybody was in first place that year). Four days later, the Dodgers had dropped four games to the last place Padres and they had dropped to fourth place. And then a seven-game losing streak from September 19 through September 26 made the Dodgers hopes of a return to the postseason disappear. The Dodgers went 11-19 in September, including a 2-13 road record.

    Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

    2005-08-16 15:08:38
    164.   Yakface
    Hmm I see that AP's double check to home cost him his spot in the line up.
    2005-08-16 15:11:54
    165.   fanerman
    Choi in the starting line-up? I'm in disbelief.

    Maybe Tracy applies the "one-of-Robles-Izturis" logic to Perez and Choi. Only one of the 2 are allowed to play at any given time. Though preferably neither.

    Has Cruz fallen harder and faster than Choi did to the bottom of the bench?

    2005-08-16 15:12:38
    166.   ddger
    Why is Valentin batting 5th? Does he hit Smoltz well?
    2005-08-16 15:13:37
    167.   ddger
    Tracy is on AM 1540. He's just rambling on how we only need to make up 1 game a week.
    2005-08-16 15:14:21
    168.   fanerman
    Tracy is using his small sample size logic, I bet. Choi is 2 for 3 versus Smoltz in the past. Phillips is 0 for something.
    2005-08-16 15:15:41
    169.   ddger
    We need AP and his hitting in the lineup against Smoltz unless Tracy thinks that we will win a low scoring game with Lowe.
    2005-08-16 15:17:34
    170.   ddger
    Tracy is still expecting that Valentin will make a big contribution.
    2005-08-16 15:21:10
    171.   King of the Hobos
    166 2-5 with a homer. Choi is 2-3, Kent is 11-48 with 3 doubles and 2 homers, Bradley is 1-5, Izzy and Cruz are 0-2, Phillips is 0-8, and Ledee is 0-9. Active Dodgers players have 20 Ks in 82 ABs against him, with 2 walks (both Kent)
    2005-08-16 15:21:12
    172.   Marty
    Vin used to love saying Staub's nickname "Le Grand Orange"
    2005-08-16 15:23:13
    173.   Eric Enders
    "He's just rambling on how we only need to make up 1 game a week."
    ---------

    Not trying to pick on anyone, but this is a good example of the knee-jerk anti-Tracy sentiment around here. If DePo or one of the players made that statement, nobody would give it a second thought. The statement makes some sense, actually. But since it's Tracy who said it, the statement is continually mocked and held up for ridicule.

    2005-08-16 15:26:00
    174.   bigcpa
    Further proof that Tracy loves teeny tiny sample sizes...

    Phillips 0-8 vs. Smoltz
    Choi 2-3 vs. Smoltz

    2005-08-16 15:26:49
    175.   Bob Timmermann
    Managers always make statements like that. But from my checking of past pennant races, it's rare that a team makes a slow, steady climb up the standings. Usually a team just goes on a long winning streak and would do something like make up 5 games in 10 days.

    If you look at any of the year's the Dodgers have won a pennant or division, you can always find one big winning streak.

    2005-08-16 15:32:27
    176.   ddger
    Since our 12-2 start, we haven't won 4 games in a row. I don't know if we can win 4 in a row this season.

    Valentin is 13 for 89 against RHP and 3 for 32 in August. I guess the one good game 2 for 5 against Smoltz is good enough sample for Tracy.

    2005-08-16 15:32:53
    177.   Jacob L
    Well, the Dodgers already had there one big streak - in April.

    You ask yourself, "can the Dodgers win this thing by making up one game a week?" Yes, they can.

    Or rather - You start to look at the Dodgers. 11 games under .500, the record. 5 games back, the defecit. You make up one game a week, and that pitch is taken for a strike. The count now 2-1.

    2005-08-16 15:33:45
    178.   King of the Hobos
    We're up against:

    SS Furcal
    2B Giles
    3B Jones
    CF Jones
    1B Laroche
    RF Francouer
    LF Langerhans
    C McCann
    P Smoltz

    2005-08-16 15:33:46
    179.   GoBears
    173 I think you're half-right, Eric. The other half is the sophisticated fan's disdain for all cliche-laden interview responses, no matter who the source. Not that we should expect anything different. Really, other than an answer to a factual question (e.g., was that a fastball that Pedro threw to Perez?), do we really expect to learn anything from interviews with managers or GMs, or anyone involved in the competition?

    So I read ddger's "rambling on" comment as at least half in the spirit of "no news here - just another sports interview."

    2005-08-16 15:39:13
    180.   Bob Timmermann
    The 1996 Dodgers made the playoffs with no winning streak longer than 5 games. That's the lowest mark for any Dodgers team that made the postseason.

    The high this year is 8. Last year's high was also 8.

    2005-08-16 15:39:15
    181.   Yakface
    You know wahts great about having a liberal boss? You dont have to lie about anything, I just told her that the Dodgers are on the road and the games start early this week, and she said just come in an hourly this week, gotta love hippies.
    2005-08-16 15:40:37
    182.   ddger
    179. It was just another boring interview. Alan Massingale never asked any controversial questions. It was almost like it was scripted.
    2005-08-16 15:42:37
    183.   Yakface
    Why does'nt anyone hound him about AP? In any other market the reporters are all over the coaches whats the deal here?
    2005-08-16 15:44:10
    184.   Jacob L
    150, 181 - I think I resent that comment.

    When I saw that the Braves had Mondesi and Jordan starting on Opening Day, I said that's it, the reign of terror is over. I shall never right off the Braves again. Of course, plan b, with Langerhans and Francouer, was much better than plan a, but is that something the Braves should have known?

    2005-08-16 15:45:28
    185.   Jacob L
    Of course I mean "write off," not "right off." When did I become such an idiot?
    2005-08-16 15:48:02
    186.   Bob Timmermann
    What about the ex-Dodger factor in tonight's Marlins-Padres game?

    The Marlins are starting two former Dodgers in Lo Duca and Encarnacion. The Padres have just one in the lineup today in Eric Young.

    Eric Young is batting THIRD for the Padres today.

    2005-08-16 15:49:08
    187.   FirstMohican
    I think by needing Jordan & Mondesi, the Braves were sort of admitting to themselves that they weren't all that great. You might not have been the only one writing them off.
    2005-08-16 15:51:00
    188.   Bob Timmermann
    But will Derek Lowe be the first pitcher to walk Jeff Francouer?
    He doesn't seem likely to do so.
    2005-08-16 15:52:03
    189.   natepurcell
    plan a was in place until the players in plan b were ready.

    seriously though, i wouldnt throw a pitch in the strike zone to francouer until he shows he can take a walk.

    2005-08-16 15:55:23
    190.   jasonungar05
    {153]

    Darn it. I tried this and he said, hey lets go out to the car.

    And I thought there wouldnt even be any one there to call my bluff.

    2005-08-16 15:55:44
    191.   Jim Hitchcock
    Since gametime is 4:35 PDT, and it's not Friday, does that mean Atlanta is on Central Time and a half?
    2005-08-16 15:56:35
    192.   King of the Hobos
    189 When I watched him in a DBacks game, he doesn't do too bad with the balls either. The homerun I saw was easily a ball. He may not be nearly as good, but he's just like Vlad. It will take a IBB to walk him
    2005-08-16 16:23:07
    193.   natepurcell
    kemp just walked. 4th walk in 3 games. if he develops discipline, hes going to be a monster.
    2005-08-16 16:24:33
    194.   fanerman
    193 - Beautiful.

    I really hope Choi makes the most out of this opportunity...

    2005-08-16 16:33:37
    195.   underdog
    Why aren't any of these games on TBS, btw? Is Friends killing in the ratings?
    (I live out of LA)

    And I do think there's a weird Tracy math regarding AP and Choi, "If AP, then Choi {null} " ... and "If Choi then AP {null} + Robles + Izturis - Phillips ="... We'll see.

    2005-08-16 16:33:57
    196.   Jacob L
    189 Perhaps the plan was for Francoeur to learn command of the strike zone from Raul.
    2005-08-16 16:35:00
    197.   fanerman
    195 - I suggested that in 165. I don't know about the TV though.
    2005-08-16 16:36:03
    198.   fanerman
    The optimist in me hopes that Tracy really is willing to give Perez a shot at 3B, but not when Derek Lowe is on the mound.
    2005-08-16 16:39:58
    199.   overkill94
    How did I know Bradley would choke in a "runner on third with less than two outs" situation again?
    2005-08-16 16:40:18
    200.   Yakface
    cesar on third 1 out cant bring him home!

    argh.

    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2005-08-16 16:41:06
    201.   King of the Hobos
    With a man on third, Bradley did not look that good. He needs to stop swinging at those pitches...
    2005-08-16 16:41:21
    202.   jasonungar05
    the Rick Monday impressions never get old.

    I want to learn to talk like that..

    Tom Petty the concert. The wife and another couple as the guest. Free falling. Out into nothing.

    2005-08-16 16:43:56
    203.   Icaros
    Well, the Dodgers don't score in the first, but Jim Tracy was made really happy by Robles's "productive" groundout, so all is not lost.
    2005-08-16 16:44:16
    204.   Jim Tracy
    Relax everyone... we only need to make up one game a week for the rest of the season and we will be in the playoffs.

    Also, planning ahead, we only need to gain one game on the 2nd placed NL West team from April thru September, and we should make the playoffs.

    And once the playoffs begin, anything can happen.

    2005-08-16 16:47:05
    205.   King of the Hobos
    Lowe can't lose out in HRs to Weaver, although that didn't look like a homer at first
    2005-08-16 16:48:07
    206.   Rob M
    When did Lowe become such a homer machine?
    2005-08-16 16:48:31
    207.   oldbear
    I thought Lowe was a GB pitcher... Thats a lot of HR's he's allowed this year.
    2005-08-16 16:48:33
    208.   oldbear
    I thought Lowe was a GB pitcher... Thats a lot of HR's he's allowed this year.
    2005-08-16 16:49:00
    209.   Im So Blue
    205
    The score is now:
    Weaver 24
    Lowe 23
    2005-08-16 16:50:28
    210.   Jim Hitchcock
    What was that!
    2005-08-16 16:50:32
    211.   King of the Hobos
    Izzy's defense fails yet again
    2005-08-16 16:50:32
    212.   Icaros
    Scrappy error for Tracy's favorite player.
    2005-08-16 16:50:42
    213.   Jim Tracy
    If we go 1-5 this week, but San Diego goes 0-6, and as long as AZ does not tear it up, this wil have been a great week. Seriously, this season feels like such a let down, especially after how we started. Concievably, we play the same teams in Sept that we played in Apr, and if Drew is back healthy, we should still be capable of a 10-4 run sometime in Sept which will bring us very close to SD and AZ.
    2005-08-16 16:51:05
    214.   overkill94
    That could have been the laziest defense all-around I've seen all year.
    2005-08-16 16:51:36
    215.   Im So Blue
    Since July 1, Weaver's given up 8 HRs, Lowe's given up 14.
    2005-08-16 16:51:54
    216.   joekings
    We got hosed on that play at third, he was out.
    2005-08-16 16:52:01
    217.   Icaros
    At least he's still one of the best situational hitting shortstops in the NL West.
    2005-08-16 16:52:02
    218.   oldbear
    Nice play by our Gold Glove SS.. Where's Steve to comment on this?
    2005-08-16 16:53:48
    219.   ddger
    we should just call NL West as NL Worst from now on until end of season
    2005-08-16 16:53:50
    220.   oldbear
    Francoeur is gonna get exposed pretty quickly if he keeps swinging at junk.
    2005-08-16 16:54:15
    221.   Jacob L
    217 And he can steal the occassional base. (That ought to bring Steve out of hiding).
    2005-08-16 16:54:39
    222.   LAT
    Does anyone know the staus of Drew's recovery? Is he on schedule? Is there a timetable to start rehab?
    2005-08-16 16:55:59
    223.   Gen3Blue
    I haven't seen the best angle yet-but Andrew looked awfully out. re 216. But unfortunately it may not matter the way we are with good pitchers. Does Smoltz tire easily!
    2005-08-16 16:56:19
    224.   Jim Hitchcock
    Steve is occupied scouting Grabs for a return to Oakland.
    2005-08-16 16:57:52
    225.   Jim Hitchcock
    222 Think Jon mentioned somewhere he's going to start swinging a bat next week. Might, might, be back in early September.
    2005-08-16 16:57:55
    226.   fanerman
    222 - I'm not sure, but I think he's on schedule and will start swinging a bat next week. I don't think we can hope for much from him, though. I guess we'll see.
    2005-08-16 16:58:02
    227.   Jacob L
    We're great against good pitchers, so long as they take a no-hitter into the 8th inning. Allows the stress to build up. Unfortunately Izzy already ruined that tactic.
    2005-08-16 16:58:37
    228.   FirstMohican
    GameDay doesn't want me to enjoy the game in realtime.
    2005-08-16 16:58:42
    229.   LAT
    Thanks Yakface. I took your suggestion and decided to leave the office. Wasn't getting anything done anyway. Now at home watching the game on the couch. Good call.
    2005-08-16 16:59:22
    230.   Jacob L
    Time for Dioner to earn his fluff piece.
    2005-08-16 17:00:33
    231.   FirstMohican
    I think batting 8th has helped Dee Owner's Ohh Bee Pee...
    2005-08-16 17:00:56
    232.   King of the Hobos
    Maybe he didn't earn his "fluff" but he got the RBI, which is good enough right now
    2005-08-16 17:01:05
    233.   Icaros
    I hope Tracy noticed that Choi helped break up that DP.
    2005-08-16 17:01:07
    234.   overkill94
    Yay, someone else's crappy defense finally gave us a run.
    2005-08-16 17:01:52
    235.   LAT
    If they had called that an E, would Dioner get a RBI?
    2005-08-16 17:03:12
    236.   King of the Hobos
    If it wasn't already said, the Marlins over the Pads 1-0 in the 3rd
    2005-08-16 17:03:51
    237.   Steelyeri
    If that was Phillips instead of navarro running, Smoltz would have enough time to go get the ball and run back in time to make the tag at first.
    2005-08-16 17:04:32
    238.   alex 7
    Depo must have not received ANY remotely good offer for Saenz. He's gotta like what he sees in Choi.
    2005-08-16 17:06:54
    239.   LAT
    By the end of this game Lowe should be well ahead of Weaver.
    2005-08-16 17:06:55
    240.   King of the Hobos
    And he's tied with Weaver. These seem to be carrying, although Lowe made a mistake right there
    2005-08-16 17:07:33
    241.   Telemachos
    The curse of the #8 hitter yet again.
    2005-08-16 17:08:19
    242.   FirstMohican
    Did McCann hit a groundball over the fence?
    2005-08-16 17:08:25
    243.   Gen3Blue
    At least most of Lowe's HR's are solo--he doesn't give them time to get men on base
    2005-08-16 17:08:41
    244.   King of the Hobos
    Weaver will get a chance to retake the lead on Thursday, and the way these balls are flying, that shouldn't be too hard

    This has to stop Lowe. The outs are GBs, the hits...

    2005-08-16 17:09:19
    245.   alex 7
    LAT, I think you still get an RBI on a DP-attempt error because you can't assume the DP would have been turned.
    2005-08-16 17:09:34
    246.   LAT
    236 Not only 1-0 but RBI from old friend Encanacion
    2005-08-16 17:09:38
    247.   Icaros
    I don't think Don Sutton should call Lowe's pitch a sinker when it does everything but sink.
    2005-08-16 17:09:46
    248.   oldbear
    Get someone up. Thats 3 home runs already. Lowe's got nothing tonite. He aint fooling anyone.
    2005-08-16 17:10:05
    249.   overkill94
    3 runs on 3 hits, now that's what I call efficient.
    2005-08-16 17:10:06
    250.   Gen3Blue
    At least most of Lowe's HR's are solo--he doesn't give them time to get men on base
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2005-08-16 17:10:40
    251.   LAT
    Thanks Alex
    2005-08-16 17:10:58
    252.   King of the Hobos
    Lowe's GO-AO ratio is 3-1 today. And there's another GO if Izzy doesn't let the ball roll through
    2005-08-16 17:11:06
    253.   Jim Hitchcock
    Not. Cool.
    2005-08-16 17:11:07
    254.   JSN
    Everytime Lowe gives up another homerun years get knocked off of my life. I don't expect to see my next birthday. And I'm sure you all griped about it but Bradley's AB was just abysmal.
    2005-08-16 17:11:08
    255.   fanerman
    Was Giles' flyout deep, too?
    2005-08-16 17:11:12
    256.   Dave
    Man, extreme ground balls are killing Lowe this year. When you guys were talking last winter about him being an extreme ground ball pitcher, I just didn't realize how EXTREME his ground balls are. Hard to defend!
    2005-08-16 17:11:55
    257.   Fern
    Just when we get clear of Dreifort, we're weighed down with Lowe for three more years. Sigh.
    2005-08-16 17:12:35
    258.   Uncle Miltie
    Derek Lowe's sinker starts at the head and ends up waist high and in the middle of the strike zone. Furcal HR was probably the only one that would have been hit in Dodger stadium. Chipper looked like he got jammed and McCann looked like he hit a line drive double.
    2005-08-16 17:12:44
    259.   Gen3Blue
    Damn, cause Smoltz doesn't look like he's got much either!
    2005-08-16 17:12:57
    260.   King of the Hobos
    255 Not really

    And Izzy drives a double to the gap. The balls are carrying if Izzy can do that

    2005-08-16 17:13:32
    261.   Icaros
    Robles just gave Tracy another orgasm.
    2005-08-16 17:13:36
    262.   Fern
    deja vu
    2005-08-16 17:13:44
    263.   Im So Blue
    And that's 2 Olneys for Oscar. Can Bradley hit a flyball this time?
    2005-08-16 17:14:03
    264.   db1022
    Nice Olney.
    2005-08-16 17:14:34
    265.   alex 7
    I didn't think Furcal could hit a ball 410 feet. This McCann looks like the real deal. How did he and Russell compare as prospects? I think I remember someone with that info.

    olney.

    2005-08-16 17:14:47
    266.   overkill94
    Bradley better not choke again...
    2005-08-16 17:15:24
    267.   Im So Blue
    deja vu all over again
    2005-08-16 17:15:29
    268.   Fern
    groudhog day. Come on Kent...make the magic happen.
    2005-08-16 17:15:31
    269.   overkill94
    That is one reason I don't like Bradley - in a situation like his 1st two at-bats you need to make a concerted effort to make contact yet both times he's just flailing away like there's no one on base.
    2005-08-16 17:15:36
    270.   natepurcell
    bradley is NOT seeing the ball well off of smoltz. i think bradley is a victim of smoltz arm angles :(
    2005-08-16 17:15:48
    271.   King of the Hobos
    Nice swing by Bradley...Soltz is destroying him. That same location, over and over and over...
    2005-08-16 17:16:19
    272.   db1022
    265 - I've heard that McCann is supposed to be the best catching prospect around, now that Mauer has "graduated".

    I would expect that means Martin is a close 2nd, or that he has just come on so recently that he is just now being noticed.

    Go Miltie.

    2005-08-16 17:16:24
    273.   FirstMohican
    Awesome Milton...
    2005-08-16 17:16:54
    274.   LAT
    thank goodness for Kent, again
    2005-08-16 17:16:58
    275.   King of the Hobos
    The Dodgers aren't making this an easy loss. Nor is the Braves defense
    2005-08-16 17:17:04
    276.   alex 7
    mvp boy.
    2005-08-16 17:17:08
    277.   Gen3Blue
    Praise be!
    2005-08-16 17:17:14
    278.   FirstMohican
    270 Tracy: "I should've started Phillips..."
    2005-08-16 17:17:25
    279.   Icaros
    i think bradley is a victim of smoltz arm angles :(

    If Choi got a hit, Bradley has no excuse.

    2005-08-16 17:17:32
    280.   natepurcell
    This McCann looks like the real deal. How did he and Russell compare as prospects? I think I remember someone with that info.

    mcCann will hit for more power than martin but martin is superior in every other aspect.

    because McCann will hit for more power, McCann is rated #1, and martin #2 in catching prospects in baseball.

    2005-08-16 17:17:41
    281.   overkill94
    Valentin in the 5 spot was definitely the right decision. Unfortunately we should have put Risp in the 3 hole.
    2005-08-16 17:17:58
    282.   fanerman
    Valentin better show off that significant sample size.
    2005-08-16 17:18:00
    283.   LAT
    This game is looking like the Dodgers vs. the Dodgers: Errors, no defense, bad pitching, solo HRs
    2005-08-16 17:18:00
    284.   db1022
    "In play, run-scoring play"

    Is there a bigger tease, especially 2 outs and a runner on 1st?

    2005-08-16 17:19:09
    285.   FirstMohican
    GameDay is definitely having an offgame...
    2005-08-16 17:19:12
    286.   Gen3Blue
    And the Braves also look like clowns. Might as well enjoy it, it usually doen't last. I wonder how many cam fit in a MIni-Cooper?
    2005-08-16 17:19:55
    287.   King of the Hobos
    How many solo homers to the Jones boys and Laroche this inning?
    2005-08-16 17:20:03
    288.   Fern
    Damn it!!! I've got both Lowe and Smoltz in my fantasy rotation. I'm getting the double whammy.
    2005-08-16 17:20:25
    289.   fanerman
    Somehow we're in a position to still win this thing...
    2005-08-16 17:20:47
    290.   fanerman
    287 - What's the over/under?
    2005-08-16 17:21:22
    291.   db1022
    288 - Suffer. I survived the Ben Sheets classic last night (10 ER).
    2005-08-16 17:22:40
    292.   King of the Hobos
    Chipper didn't miss by much on that foul
    2005-08-16 17:22:45
    293.   Icaros
    The Braves prospects are always ready when the big team needs them. Remember when Jordan and Mondesi were the starting corner outfielders this season?
    2005-08-16 17:23:31
    294.   Fern
    I wonder if Lowe is doing especially poorly cause he disguised himself in Sheets' uni last night and has dead arm?
    2005-08-16 17:23:39
    295.   Uncle Miltie
    Izzy is doing his job as a leadoff hitter
    2005-08-16 17:23:55
    296.   Icaros
    Now Lowe wants to try giving up some HRs with men on base.
    2005-08-16 17:24:38
    297.   Fern
    Is Langerhans really ready though? Notice my silence on Francouer
    2005-08-16 17:25:02
    298.   Icaros
    Izzy is doing his job as a leadoff hitter

    Yes, one game out of every 15 he'll do just that.

    2005-08-16 17:26:02
    299.   King of the Hobos
    So much for no homers, Andruw wipes the bases on a DP so Laroche can hit it out
    2005-08-16 17:26:28
    300.   Icaros
    Is Langerhans really ready though?

    He's ready enough to be better than those two ex-Dodgers bums.

    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2005-08-16 17:26:48
    301.   fanerman
    Maybe Izzy can go hit 330 for a month and a half again right now. It'd sure help.
    2005-08-16 17:26:50
    302.   Fern
    Chip Caray just said..."Lowe has the turbo sinker working tonight. Only one fly ball out so far"

    Yeah

    2005-08-16 17:27:36
    303.   Marty
    I sure hope with the Laroches, that we finally got the good brother (I'm looking at you Wilton Guerrero).
    2005-08-16 17:27:40
    304.   fanerman
    DP and a strikeout. Impressive.
    2005-08-16 17:28:21
    305.   Marty
    302. He should have said only one fly ball in
    2005-08-16 17:28:36
    306.   Telemachos
    302 Proof that intelligence is genetic.
    2005-08-16 17:28:40
    307.   King of the Hobos
    We're all forgetting Kelly Johnson, who has 9 homers this year but with a low average. He's been in LF when Langerhans isn't
    2005-08-16 17:28:43
    308.   Mark Linsey
    302 - Oh there have been plenty of fly balls "out" today.
    2005-08-16 17:30:40
    309.   Icaros
    Give that bat back you fat cow.
    2005-08-16 17:31:09
    310.   fanerman
    309 - err, what?
    2005-08-16 17:32:21
    311.   oldbear
    Way too much 1st pitch swinging tonite.
    2005-08-16 17:32:53
    312.   Icaros
    310 - I have the Braves broadcast, and the beast who caught Choi's bat was refusing to give it back.
    2005-08-16 17:33:51
    313.   Marty
    Cardinals up 2-0 on Arizona.
    2005-08-16 17:34:13
    314.   Jacob L
    288 You didn't sign him for four years, did you?

    Side topic, if I might, anyone care to defend the Giants NOT trading Jason Schmidt last month? Poor season for the team. Skills in decline, but still in demand. Nice hot streak just before the deadline to drive up his value. Really the only chance S.F. had, short of trading Bonds, to get some young talent into their system.

    He's getting knocked around pretty good by Cincy to night - "matching" Eric Milton.

    2005-08-16 17:35:05
    315.   Bob Timmermann
    The Reds had to take out Sean Casey because of a shoulder injury. So Dunn has moved to first and Pena is in left.

    Why does this seem like the Reds came out ahead in this?

    2005-08-16 17:35:40
    316.   LAT
    309 Icaros, Lyons just said "Charlie, for some reason that's not a woman I want mad at me."
    2005-08-16 17:36:21
    317.   Jim Hitchcock
    309 - That's somebody's mother, Icaros.
    2005-08-16 17:37:13
    318.   Bob Timmermann
    Izturis stole a base? How?
    2005-08-16 17:37:36
    319.   Steve
    Dan Kolb's mother.
    2005-08-16 17:37:51
    320.   LAT
    They gave the lady a bat but, according to Lyons, won't get it until after the game becasue she looks like someone who will statr hitting people with it. Then says the husband is glad she doesn't have the bat. Charlie won't bite. He knows better.
    2005-08-16 17:38:13
    321.   King of the Hobos
    Francouer didn't walk, but he increased his OBP. No homers this inning, they can only be solo homers
    2005-08-16 17:38:22
    322.   Icaros
    315 - Unfortunately, the Reds will now start playing very listlessly without Casey's vigor and people skills.

    It's similar to how the Dodgers suffer when Repko is out of the lineup. He can't hit or field, but he's full of energy.

    2005-08-16 17:39:00
    323.   Fern
    314 Luckily, I can dump him right NOW!!! Uhm, Jeff Weaver anyone.

    The only way to stop Francouer. I am determined to spell his name differently every time.

    2005-08-16 17:39:03
    324.   Mark Linsey
    318 - We traded Phillips to the Braves before the game - that's also why he's not starting at first over Choi.
    2005-08-16 17:39:20
    325.   bokonon42
    318 Busted hit-and-run that Robles interfered with just enough.
    2005-08-16 17:39:31
    326.   King of the Hobos
    318 Bad throw on a hit&run
    2005-08-16 17:39:36
    327.   oldbear
    Whats the difference between Navarro and Phillips? ehh....
    2005-08-16 17:40:29
    328.   Icaros
    That's somebody's mother, Icaros.

    Lucky him/her. That's obviously a very well-fed family.

    2005-08-16 17:41:00
    329.   King of the Hobos
    324 Don't joke like that
    2005-08-16 17:41:25
    330.   bigcpa
    How savvy was that Choi dig-out?
    2005-08-16 17:41:26
    331.   Bob Timmermann
    No Olney for Pancreas Man!
    2005-08-16 17:41:39
    332.   bokonon42
    I've been waiting for a brawl all season and tonight might be the night. Not only did Lowe hit Francoer (or whatever) but the Dodgers are throwing bats at Danny Kolb's mother? If Smoltz doesn't retaliate, he's a little girl.
    2005-08-16 17:41:43
    333.   Fern
    Izturis has decided that he will only play for the highlight reel.
    2005-08-16 17:42:30
    334.   Steve
    She's not the only Kolb who's been hit this year.
    2005-08-16 17:43:02
    335.   Icaros
    Actually, that may have been Dan Kolb himself.
    2005-08-16 17:43:31
    336.   Steve
    Rich Aurilia homers (13) on a fly ball to left field. Eric Milton scores.

    Ye Gods.

    2005-08-16 17:43:59
    337.   King of the Hobos
    Lowe needs to walk the first batter of every inning. That seems to be the secret to success, have runners on base so there's no homers
    2005-08-16 17:45:07
    338.   LAT
    Fish have 1 and 3 with no outs. . .
    now 1 out
    2005-08-16 17:45:46
    339.   Icaros
    I don't usually poke fun at the lazy overeaters of the world. I grew out of that in high school.

    But the way that woman looked all mad like she had some right to the bat really irritated me.

    2005-08-16 17:46:18
    340.   Eric Enders
    Braves announcers just called Robles "a free swinger." Does he still lead the NL in pitches seen per plate appearance?
    2005-08-16 17:46:55
    341.   LAT
    They just showed stat, Encarnicion is secon in NL batting avg. with RISP. First == our own Jeff Kent.

    Of course, after posting that stat he pops out with runners on 1 and 3B.

    Paulie up. . .

    2005-08-16 17:48:22
    342.   King of the Hobos
    340 And Francouer was some amazing plate discipline, I'm sure
    2005-08-16 17:48:35
    343.   LAT
    LoDuca ground out. 1 and 3 with no outs and Fish come up empty.
    2005-08-16 17:50:35
    344.   Icaros
    So when is Bradley supposed to come off the DL?
    2005-08-16 17:50:50
    345.   Telemachos
    I didn't realize it until just now, but hasn't Izturis now officially passed his error total from last year?
    2005-08-16 17:53:07
    346.   King of the Hobos
    Robles goes for the highlight reel as well
    2005-08-16 17:53:16
    347.   Jim Hitchcock
    339 - I was just having fun with you, Icaros.

    Nice play.

    2005-08-16 17:53:27
    348.   LAT
    Prince Albert makes it 3-0 StL
    2005-08-16 17:53:36
    349.   LAT
    Prince Albert makes it 3-0 StL
    2005-08-16 17:54:19
    350.   Bob Timmermann
    Coming into tonight's game Robles had seen an average of 4.07 pitches per PA.

    Francouer came in at 3.26

    Show/Hide Comments 351-400
    2005-08-16 17:54:23
    351.   King of the Hobos
    And another bad play for Izzy, this time a bagger.
    2005-08-16 17:54:31
    352.   LAT
    345 You were saying?
    2005-08-16 17:54:31
    353.   Icaros
    That was some throw by Robles.

    Izturis is so awesome.

    2005-08-16 17:54:33
    354.   bokonon42
    Izzy's got to get an error for that, right?
    2005-08-16 17:55:39
    355.   Steve
    Gameday says...

    Marcus Giles doubles (35) on a ground ball to third baseman Oscar Robles

    2005-08-16 17:56:36
    356.   Icaros
    I don't see how Giles gets a double for that garbage. Shouldn't it be a single and error?

    Izturis has to at least knock it down.

    2005-08-16 17:57:13
    357.   Bob Timmermann
    7-7 in Cincinnati after a 3-run homer from Deivi Cruz.
    2005-08-16 17:57:32
    358.   King of the Hobos
    Good job by Lowe. He's been golden with runners on
    2005-08-16 17:57:48
    359.   bokonon42
    So, walking Chipper to get to Andruw really was the way to go. Why doesn't everybody do that?
    2005-08-16 17:58:05
    360.   Bob Timmermann
    Andruw,

    Alstublieft!

    2005-08-16 17:58:11
    361.   Steve
    The first pitch hack is like gold.
    2005-08-16 17:58:19
    362.   Icaros
    I was just having fun with you, Icaros.

    I know. I just didn't want to come off too snotty in front of such a nice group of people.

    2005-08-16 17:58:25
    363.   King of the Hobos
    Pads up 2-1 with a man on 3rd. They got yet another triple by their catcher, this time Olivo
    2005-08-16 17:58:38
    364.   natepurcell
    because andruw leads the league in homeruns?
    2005-08-16 17:58:50
    365.   LAT
    That they called that a 2B is absurd. I tivo it 3 times. Izzy misjudged the ball. He expected it to bounce higher when it hit the dirt but in didn't hit the dirt it took a hop on the grass and died.
    2005-08-16 18:00:07
    366.   Jim Hitchcock
    Nice play by Lowe.
    2005-08-16 18:01:33
    367.   Icaros
    The Braves announcers are saying Kent will be a close call to make the HOF.

    I can't think of any argument against him getting in.

    2005-08-16 18:01:43
    368.   LAT
    Is it me or are the wheels about to come off the Blue wagon.
    2005-08-16 18:03:22
    369.   LAT
    Gonzo 2HR. 3-2 StL
    2005-08-16 18:05:22
    370.   Dodgersrock24
    Alright Choi, bring in Werth
    2005-08-16 18:06:24
    371.   King of the Hobos
    Nice play by Giles, we got really close to the lead right there. Choi sure thought he was safe
    2005-08-16 18:06:25
    372.   Dodgersrock24
    He was safe!
    2005-08-16 18:06:30
    373.   Jim Hitchcock
    Bad call.
    2005-08-16 18:06:34
    374.   Icaros
    Looked safe to me.
    2005-08-16 18:06:57
    375.   Dodgersrock24
    He was safe!
    2005-08-16 18:07:20
    376.   natepurcell
    loney 2 run homerun.
    2005-08-16 18:07:47
    377.   LAT
    Tivo says very very close but safe. Tie to the runner.
    2005-08-16 18:07:54
    378.   Yakface
    I have tivo and He was safe by a foot.
    2005-08-16 18:08:38
    379.   natepurcell
    conspiracy against choi!!! he was safe. tracy payed off the ump.
    2005-08-16 18:09:05
    380.   gcrl
    looked safe to me too.

    don sutton was commenting on how well choi hits in the 2 slot, and how poorly everywhere else. he claimed that the reason they don't keep him in the 2 slot is that the dodgers (tracy) are (is) concerned about clogging up the basepaths.

    as opposed to keeping people off of the basepaths.

    2005-08-16 18:09:42
    381.   Icaros
    Replay shows Choi was definitely safe.

    Another bad call puts Choi deeper in Tracy's doghouse.

    2005-08-16 18:09:44
    382.   Jim Hitchcock
    I'm watching this game in protest!
    2005-08-16 18:10:19
    383.   Mark Linsey
    Did Tracy come out to argue the call?
    2005-08-16 18:10:23
    384.   Bob Timmermann
    The Padres are now ahead of the Marlins in ex-Dodgers on the field. They now have three: Young, Roberts, and Quantrill while the Marlins just have two: Lo Duca and Encarnacion.
    2005-08-16 18:10:32
    385.   Fern
    Sutton just conceded he was safe!! Bring on the replay in baseball
    2005-08-16 18:11:01
    386.   Jacob L
    For those of us wathcing at work, did anyone (Tracy, for instance) argue the call?
    2005-08-16 18:12:02
    387.   LAT
    Like the Jason's do, Werth made that look harder than it was.
    2005-08-16 18:12:05
    388.   Fern
    Are the Suns at home? And if so, can i watch them on my screen right now?
    2005-08-16 18:12:06
    389.   gcrl
    sutton said tracy came out to "discuss" the call with larry poncino. he said he did not argue.
    2005-08-16 18:12:10
    390.   Icaros
    380 - I heard that too. Choi isn't nearly slow enough to "clog the basepaths."

    Sutton also talked about how Choi was hot earlier then cooled off. More like hot earlier, then unfairly benched.

    2005-08-16 18:12:33
    391.   King of the Hobos
    386 Other than Choi's little outburst (he jumped and threw his arms up), I don't believe so
    2005-08-16 18:13:25
    392.   Dave
    381 the bad call didn't put him deeper in the doghouse, a hit would have. Give a guy like Choi a hit in that situation and the next thing you know he wants to play in another game.
    2005-08-16 18:13:26
    393.   bokonon42
    383, 386- Nope. Choi did a little dance, but didn't press the point.
    2005-08-16 18:13:41
    394.   jpeace
    What's all the commotion about?

    gameday: "Hee-Seop Choi grounds out sharply, first baseman Adam LaRoche to second baseman Marcus Giles to pitcher John Smoltz. "

    2005-08-16 18:14:55
    395.   bokonon42
    I guess I'm wrong; I didn't see anybody come out, and Steiner didn't mention.
    2005-08-16 18:15:27
    396.   Jim Hitchcock
    Tracy was sidelined with a case of omphaloskepsis.
    2005-08-16 18:15:29
    397.   King of the Hobos
    394 Line shot off Laroche, Giles got to it and threw to Smoltz covering. The concensus was Choi was safe
    2005-08-16 18:15:57
    398.   Icaros
    Lowe turned those three solo HRs into a Quality Start.
    2005-08-16 18:16:15
    399.   Fern
    Is the Braves pen just fodder like the Dodgers'?
    2005-08-16 18:16:26
    400.   alex 7
    and all of a sudden Lowe has a quality start(TM).
    Show/Hide Comments 401-450
    2005-08-16 18:17:11
    401.   bokonon42
    396 I always wondered what the proper medical term was for the state of having one's head up his own. . .
    2005-08-16 18:17:33
    402.   Icaros
    The concensus was Choi was safe.

    It really wasn't even close.

    2005-08-16 18:17:41
    403.   King of the Hobos
    399 Not like the Dodgers, but not great. Reitsman can be hittable (didn't he give up a slam to Eckstein?) but their pen can pitch some scoreless innings
    2005-08-16 18:17:52
    404.   Bob Timmermann
    The Marlins have caught up to the Padres in terms of ex-Dodgers.

    Ismael Valdez now into relieve.

    It's 3-3 in terms of Ex-Dodgers.

    2005-08-16 18:19:02
    405.   Icaros
    Tracy is taking a big risk sending Lowe out for the 7th. If he gives up a run he loses that QS.
    2005-08-16 18:19:35
    406.   ddger
    383,386,389 Tracy rarely argues with the umpires. I wish he would defend his players more against bad calls. Maybe, he thinks that if he is nice to the umpires then he could get favorable calls later.
    2005-08-16 18:21:05
    407.   Icaros
    406 - He probably feels like the team will really suffer without his grit and savvy in the dugout.
    2005-08-16 18:21:28
    408.   bokonon42
    404 Shouldn't Loduca count as more than one? My preliminary scoring of former Dodgers in that game has Florida leading 12-3.
    2005-08-16 18:22:13
    409.   gcrl
    nice guys finish under .500 (this year, anyway)
    2005-08-16 18:22:41
    410.   Dave
    406 It has been a while since I've seen a manager win one of those arguments.
    2005-08-16 18:23:20
    411.   oldbear
    I'm just going on record as disagreeing with the Jim Tracy decision to leave Derek Lowe in.

    Lowe should have been pinch hit for in the top of the 7th.

    Lowe is at 104 pitches and the Braves top of the order is coming up.

    Bad decision by Jim Tracy. We'll see if it works.

    2005-08-16 18:24:07
    412.   alex 7
    Lowe's at 104 pitches, though Smoltz is the leadoff hitter this inning. If he doesn't go 1-2-3, he needs to come out. Better have Sanchez or Schmoll ready. Preferably Sanches with the middle of the lineup due up if Lowe gets in trouble.
    2005-08-16 18:24:34
    413.   Icaros
    I actually really like the South, but these Turner "Your South" commercials are causing me to change my mind.
    2005-08-16 18:24:50
    414.   bokonon42
    406- I think the main reason to hope Tracy would argue more is that it would increase the chances of his being thrown out of the game. And, thereby, decrease the chances of Mike Edwards's PHing for Choi, or whatever other goofy hunch we can expect Tracy to hatch.
    2005-08-16 18:25:16
    415.   King of the Hobos
    Now we're at the other end of the call. If he is out in the replay...
    2005-08-16 18:25:27
    416.   Jacob L
    411 - Not that I disagree with you, but which one of our bullpen aces do you want to hand it over to? I think Penny's outing on Sunday was indication of how Tracy wants to handle late innings now.
    2005-08-16 18:25:42
    417.   gcrl
    he'll argue for kent, but not for choi.
    2005-08-16 18:26:48
    418.   alex 7
    re: 407 so much for that theory.
    2005-08-16 18:27:00
    419.   Bob Timmermann
    The Tracy-Choi conspiracy theories are pretty funny.
    2005-08-16 18:27:01
    420.   gcrl
    meanwhile, pedro feliz needs a hr for the cycle. gnats going for back to back cyclical performances.
    2005-08-16 18:28:02
    421.   King of the Hobos
    Dang, this can't be good. I can see our "game a week" from lastweek already gone
    2005-08-16 18:28:11
    422.   Bob Timmermann
    Remember the Marlins have:
    Heart and Soul (Lo Duca)

    But the Padres:
    The Spark Plug (Roberts)

    They both also feature:
    The relievers who kept Eric Gagne from getting hurt
    (Quantrill and Mota)

    2005-08-16 18:28:23
    423.   alex 7
    A run on his 110th pitch? soooo shocked.
    2005-08-16 18:28:44
    424.   natepurcell
    is that run unearned? if its earned, no QS for lowe@!
    2005-08-16 18:29:15
    425.   Bob Timmermann
    Mariano Rivera blew a save against Tampa Bay.
    2005-08-16 18:29:16
    426.   Fern
    But the important thing is that Lowe still has a quality start going.
    2005-08-16 18:29:16
    427.   Icaros
    Navarro could have blocked the plate there and gotten the out.
    2005-08-16 18:29:35
    428.   Dave
    It's more likely that JT can't stand to watch Choi bat and was looking away and missed the play. Hard to argue what you don't see.
    2005-08-16 18:29:59
    429.   Bob Timmermann
    If Chipper Jones hits a home run or drives in Giles, Lowe will get an earned run.
    2005-08-16 18:30:00
    430.   King of the Hobos
    Why is Lowe still in there? Navarro had little chance on that, Lowe did nothing to help.
    2005-08-16 18:30:10
    431.   alex 7
    circus
    2005-08-16 18:30:22
    432.   gcrl
    eduardo perez (yes, that eduardo perez) takes mo rivera deep in bottom 9 - drays tie it up.

    i hate the yankees.

    2005-08-16 18:31:40
    433.   Yakface
    How are the dodgers supposed to get ahead with a neanderthal ump like that at first?
    2005-08-16 18:32:08
    434.   Icaros
    So far, Navarro's defense hasn't impressed me. His throws are rarely on the money, and his inability to block the plate there was terrible.

    He also can't hit.

    2005-08-16 18:32:12
    435.   oldbear
    Lowe should not have even started the inning.
    2005-08-16 18:32:19
    436.   natepurcell
    darn, billingsley almost belted a homerun, double off the walk.
    2005-08-16 18:32:36
    437.   gcrl
    anyone feeling inspired to purchase "finazzle grout remover"?
    2005-08-16 18:33:14
    438.   natepurcell
    whos nite has been worse? milton bradleys or andruw jones?
    2005-08-16 18:33:16
    439.   Fern
    I could go the rest of my life without hearing that infernal "ohhhhhhhhhhhhh-oh-ohohhhhhhh-oh-ohhhhhhh-ohhhhhh" chant.

    (oh yeah, you try spelling it)

    2005-08-16 18:33:42
    440.   oldbear
    Isnt everyone glad that Tracy was able to squeeze that one last inning out of Derek Lowe..

    What did it cost us?

    Only the game.

    2005-08-16 18:33:56
    441.   King of the Hobos
    434 The throw seemed too far off the plate to really block it. I need another replay to tell for sure though
    2005-08-16 18:35:05
    442.   Dave
    440 Why do you think it was "one last inning?"
    2005-08-16 18:36:17
    443.   scareduck
    440 - aaaand the difference between him and the pen would be what, exactly?

    Farnsworth? Oh, happy day...

    http://6-4-2.blogspot.com/2004/08/kyle-farnsworth-i-love-you-dodgers-8.html

    2005-08-16 18:36:46
    444.   Icaros
    441 - The throw looked right there to me. Navarro set up in the wrong spot, leaving half the plate exposed to the runner.
    2005-08-16 18:37:03
    445.   alex 7
    he is, you know, a young rookie and all.
    2005-08-16 18:37:08
    446.   Bob Timmermann
    Heart and Soul hits into a DP to end the bottom of the 8th.
    2005-08-16 18:37:32
    447.   King of the Hobos
    Nice start for the Dodgers. Now Bradley needs to put the ball into play, a productive out at least
    2005-08-16 18:37:46
    448.   bokonon42
    441 I agree with you. If Navarro were a couple of feet taller, he could have blocked the plate and taken the throw. Barring that, he had to pick one. He picked right.
    2005-08-16 18:37:55
    449.   Icaros
    Bradley might even be able to hit Farnsworth.
    2005-08-16 18:38:16
    450.   Icaros
    Nope.
    Show/Hide Comments 451-500
    2005-08-16 18:39:05
    451.   alex 7
    our pen might not be great, but it doesn't allow a run per inning as most pitchers after 100 pitches seem to do.
    2005-08-16 18:39:25
    452.   Fern
    why no tag??? Fundamentals!!! it was deep enough.
    2005-08-16 18:40:33
    453.   Yakface
    HA you know how mad I am that bad calls cost us the game? Really mad.
    2005-08-16 18:41:06
    454.   Fern
    what's the probability of scoring a run when you get a lead-off double?
    2005-08-16 18:41:08
    455.   gcrl
    the left fielder made a strong throw that was on line. looked like the right play to hold up. the failure in fundamentals was bradley's inability to pull the ball.
    2005-08-16 18:41:22
    456.   Icaros
    448 - I didn't see him reaching back too far to catch the ball.

    If he would have set up in the right spot, Werth's target would have been in a place where the out could have been recorded.

    2005-08-16 18:41:35
    457.   scareduck
    449 - somewhere, there's a bag of balls. With Bradley's arm, I bet he could hit him from the dugout...
    2005-08-16 18:43:05
    458.   Fern
    Again Caray "And now a real dangerous hitter in Valentin"
    2005-08-16 18:43:32
    459.   Icaros
    he is, you know, a young rookie and all.

    So what? I'm talking about basic catching. High school players know how to block the damn plate.

    2005-08-16 18:44:24
    460.   Bob Timmermann
    459
    Actually, most high school catchers don't.
    2005-08-16 18:47:18
    461.   alex 7
    I think there's a reason why guys like Mike Scioscia stood out. I just figure the 22-year old can improve on some things. He blocked it well enough the other night.
    2005-08-16 18:47:21
    462.   Fern
    this is why every pitcher should be able to throw something off-speed.
    2005-08-16 18:48:11
    463.   Icaros
    460 - Okay, well that's when they're taught how to do it anyway, at least at my crappy little high school.

    But yeah, Navarro's 21, so he shouldn't be expected to know how to field his position like he's in the Major Leagues.

    2005-08-16 18:48:14
    464.   alex 7
    I wish I could believe Velentine is just fouling off great pitches by Farnsworth, but I'm gonna guess he just can't hit a ball squarely very well anymore.
    2005-08-16 18:48:31
    465.   King of the Hobos
    I figured that wouldn't end too pretty. Werth-Choi-Navarro up next inning vs Reitsma. I'm not sure what to expect after stranding Robles at 2nd
    2005-08-16 18:49:07
    466.   Icaros
    ...or he's 22. I don't remember.
    2005-08-16 18:49:30
    467.   Yakface
    And the umpire who is obviously an avid user of this site(hates Tracy) blows the game. Either that or not using AP.
    2005-08-16 18:49:52
    468.   Fern
    Bring in the Bull. If we're gonna lose, let's lose like we mean it.
    2005-08-16 18:50:24
    469.   King of the Hobos
    We had Schmoll in the bullpen. Is this a Lett move? If it is, I'm not voting him to manager anytime soon
    2005-08-16 18:51:44
    470.   Icaros
    I thought this was a one-run game. What gives with the Carrara business?
    2005-08-16 18:51:54
    471.   Bob Timmermann
    463
    I based my statement on my belief that there are a paucity of close plays at the plate in high school baseball.
    2005-08-16 18:52:14
    472.   alex 7
    with a 4.75 ERA, it's a coin flip as to whether he gives up a run or not right?
    2005-08-16 18:52:19
    473.   scareduck
    Anybody visited the islands the Langerhans family owns?
    2005-08-16 18:52:41
    474.   Ryan Jerz
    456 My guess is that the throw does more to the catcher than the catcher's position does to the thrower. Outfielders barely see the catcher when throwing home. They know where they are on the field, and they let it rip. The throw, even from the tough camera angle, was to Navarro's right and high. Both of those things make it tough, if not impossible to block the plate with the left foot. Take another look at the replay, if you can, and you'll see his left leg extended as far as it could go.
    2005-08-16 18:53:21
    475.   Bob Timmermann
    473
    I did when I was part of the road show of "The Fantastic Voyage".
    2005-08-16 18:54:48
    476.   King of the Hobos
    Apparently that move was genius. Werth could come up big again...
    2005-08-16 18:56:50
    477.   Icaros
    I guess I was spoiled by watching Scioscia block the runner off the plate around the time the ball left the fielder's hand.

    I'm still not too excited about Navarro's future.

    2005-08-16 18:57:29
    478.   Bob Timmermann
    477
    So you're a Henson and not a Gurnick?
    2005-08-16 18:58:26
    479.   Icaros
    I'm a Jim Henson.
    2005-08-16 18:59:11
    480.   Ryan Jerz
    Who is that guy and what did he do to Charlie "every fly ball is an exciting fly ball" Steiner
    2005-08-16 18:59:18
    481.   alex 7
    this inning feels better than the last one. Or for you sabrmetricians, the odds of stranding a lead off runner at 2nd decreases with every opportunity.
    2005-08-16 19:00:39
    482.   bokonon42
    I've developed a (proprietary) metric for the measure of ex-Dodgers playing for other teams. I call it XDodger+ and the standard score is 100. By my adjusted count, the Marlins are at 134, clearly ahead of the Padre's 116. The Pirates started out the year at 111, but trading David Ross took a big chunk out of their XDodger+, leaving them at 92. Sad year all around for the Pirates.
    2005-08-16 19:00:42
    483.   Icaros
    This is why a man at second shouldn't always be considered a RISP.
    2005-08-16 19:00:54
    484.   Bob Timmermann
    4-1 Padres going to the bottom of the 9th.
    2005-08-16 19:00:56
    485.   alex 7
    Weird, why not save Ledee for the pitcher spot?
    2005-08-16 19:01:46
    486.   Icaros
    I hope Ledee's hammy can handle this pinch hit appearance.
    2005-08-16 19:02:58
    487.   scareduck
    Reitsma's picture looks like a happier version of Ray Liotta -- a slightly psychotic used car salesman.
    2005-08-16 19:03:48
    488.   Icaros
    Don Sutton just called Saenz a "professional hitter."
    2005-08-16 19:04:08
    489.   alex 7
    tell me Tracy wouldn't have pinch hit the BARISP master here.
    2005-08-16 19:05:19
    490.   alex 7
    there are no outs, is it really necessary to pinch run for an average speed runner? Better hope this doesn't go to extra innings.
    2005-08-16 19:05:19
    491.   King of the Hobos
    As Steiner said it: "The Killer Tomato strikes again." Lett looks like a genius right now
    2005-08-16 19:05:58
    492.   Icaros
    Is Gagne warming up?
    2005-08-16 19:06:31
    493.   Bob Timmermann
    4-2 Padres. 1 out, 2 on for the Marlins.
    2005-08-16 19:06:38
    494.   scareduck
    The Dodger bullpen still has to survive another inning.
    2005-08-16 19:06:42
    495.   King of the Hobos
    489 Tracy is long gone. Lett is calling the shots, and looking really good doing it
    2005-08-16 19:07:18
    496.   scareduck
    491 - Hire Jim Lett!
    2005-08-16 19:07:24
    497.   Icaros
    Choi got a clutch hit with a RISP, but it will sadly be overlooked.
    2005-08-16 19:07:44
    498.   Bob Timmermann
    4-2 Padres final
    2005-08-16 19:07:54
    499.   Steelyeri
    Good thing Tracy got ejected. He wasn't around to make Choi bunt after Werth's double.
    2005-08-16 19:09:10
    500.   fanerman
    Let's pad the score so we don't have to worry too much about the pen.
    Show/Hide Comments 501-550
    2005-08-16 19:09:16
    501.   Icaros
    499 - You may be joking, but I think you are exactly right.
    2005-08-16 19:09:31
    502.   Fern
    499---so true
    2005-08-16 19:09:34
    503.   King of the Hobos
    That just made Sanchez's job a little easier. Still no outs in the inning
    2005-08-16 19:10:04
    504.   fanerman
    Is there a pitching change?
    2005-08-16 19:10:19
    505.   scareduck
    Foster freezes.
    2005-08-16 19:10:33
    506.   Fern
    Sanchez or Schmoll? What should Schmoll's bullpen song be?
    2005-08-16 19:10:37
    507.   Icaros
    Too bad for the Braves that Smoltz wasn't available to close.
    2005-08-16 19:10:54
    508.   Dave
    Was it really a high percentage move to pinch run for HSP? Think if I ws going to use a runner it would be for Saenz.
    2005-08-16 19:11:05
    509.   Bob Timmermann
    10-8 Giants in the 9th.
    2005-08-16 19:12:16
    510.   Bob Timmermann
    Since Saenz was already in, the Dodgers had a first baseman in the game. And Choi was the go-ahead run.
    2005-08-16 19:12:26
    511.   King of the Hobos
    Kolb in to end the damage
    2005-08-16 19:12:48
    512.   Bob Timmermann
    Giants win 10-8.

    The NL West is 2-0 tonight!

    2005-08-16 19:13:25
    513.   Icaros
    At least Dan Kolb's mother gets to see her son pitch tonight to go along with her souvenir.
    2005-08-16 19:13:28
    514.   Ryan Jerz
    508 But Choi was the go-ahead and they didn't run for him until he hit second. That way they could make sure he scored on a single.
    2005-08-16 19:13:32
    515.   alex 7
    I disagreed with the move Dave. I doubt Saenz spot will come up again. Choi's would come up next inning if the game was tied.
    2005-08-16 19:13:41
    516.   Gen3Blue
    Wow! I was dicouraged and bored behind 4-3 and didn't look up for a while. Its amazing-these announcers don't raise there voice a decibel unless something happens they like. After about 10 minutes of very quite time I look up to see we are ahead and still going.We are so lucky to have Vin. Whoever asked is their bullpen a bunch of pap like ours had the idea.
    2005-08-16 19:13:45
    517.   fanerman
    Maybe even Bradley can get a hit now.
    2005-08-16 19:14:13
    518.   werthgagne31
    when the braves intentionally walked izturis i thought to myself they are doing the dodgers a favor, i was so glad to see that happen.
    also who ever chose ledee to bat for navarro and seanz for the pitcher did exactly what i was hoping for.
    2005-08-16 19:14:54
    519.   bigcpa
    On Atlanta radio Skip Caray just said: "One good thing here is that Carrara's out of the game... he looked great."
    2005-08-16 19:14:54
    520.   Humma Kavula
    One more vote for hiring Jim Lett. I like these moves...
    2005-08-16 19:15:04
    521.   Dave
    510 Okay. That makes sense since Repko is much faster than probably anyone else on the team. I'd still rather have Choi than Saenz at first in the bottom of the 9th.
    2005-08-16 19:15:06
    522.   Mark Joseph
    454 481 Man on 2nd, no outs. Expectation is 1.13 runs; the probability of scoring one or more is 0.633. We're closer to the right-hand side of the curve in the ninth than we were in the eighth :-)

    If it makes anyone feel better, the probability of blowing both opportunities was only .135

    Who's pitching the ninth?

    2005-08-16 19:15:12
    523.   Uncle Miltie
    What the ....! What a terrible job by Bradley and Kent. Awful game by Bradley!
    2005-08-16 19:15:25
    524.   Bob Timmermann
    Well, that was unexpected.
    2005-08-16 19:15:34
    525.   King of the Hobos
    Kolb actually did a good job

    McCann, PH, and Furcal. Shouldn't be too difficult, at least we have a 2 run lead now

    2005-08-16 19:15:37
    526.   fanerman
    What happened?
    2005-08-16 19:16:18
    527.   Bob Timmermann
    Bradley hit into a forceout at the plate and Kent went GIDP.
    2005-08-16 19:18:10
    528.   Humma Kavula
    C'mon, Duaner!
    2005-08-16 19:18:36
    529.   regfairfield
    If I here Steiner and Lyons use the term "Killer Tomato" again, I'm going to wretch.

    I can almost accept cute nicknames if they are used sparingly. (See the Rex Hudler collolary)

    2005-08-16 19:18:40
    530.   alex 7
    with no outs though, Ryan, I don't think the Dodgers would have sent Choi or Repko on anything that would have resulted in a close play at home. And Choi isn't slow.
    2005-08-16 19:19:44
    531.   gcrl
    sanchez and phillips - "the goggle connection" as described by the monotone braves announcer
    2005-08-16 19:19:47
    532.   scareduck
    Can someone manage to slip some phenobarbitol in Tracy's morning coffee? I'm beginning to like this Jim Lett thing.
    2005-08-16 19:20:33
    533.   Bob Timmermann
    532
    I have a prescription for that drug!
    2005-08-16 19:22:01
    534.   alex 7
    Julio was playing pro ball when Sanchez was born.
    2005-08-16 19:22:48
    535.   regfairfield
    Doesn't the manager just manage from the clubhouse when he gets thrown out of the game? Or am I just confused.
    2005-08-16 19:23:32
    536.   Fern
    Mark Grudziellandouerlkjd is hitting clean up for the redbirds tonight.
    2005-08-16 19:23:32
    537.   Bob Timmermann
    535
    Most likely Tracy just stood in a hallway out of sight of the umpire and told Lett what to do.
    2005-08-16 19:23:49
    538.   werthgagne31
    amazing, a carrara, sanchez tight game win, someone call geuines book of world records, this is a first.
    2005-08-16 19:23:52
    539.   gcrl
    is that "guame over"?
    2005-08-16 19:23:58
    540.   Steve
    What happened to Tracy? I haven't been watching, but I just checked in and that 9th inning was incredibly competent. No bunting. Hit for Navarro. No Phillips.
    2005-08-16 19:24:05
    541.   Bob Timmermann
    GUAMER OVER!
    2005-08-16 19:24:15
    542.   natepurcell
    great news- greg miller retires the side in the 7th on 10 pitches- 2 Ks and one gb, he was hitting 95 on his fastball. he threw one ball out of the 10 pitches.
    2005-08-16 19:24:38
    543.   King of the Hobos
    Duaner doesn't look that bad in his new role. Better than Brazoban's recent control problems. And whatever Werth has done, I've heard a few things, it's working. If one of our corner OFs hits, we actually have a chance. Too bad the Pads insisted on winning
    2005-08-16 19:24:40
    544.   Steelyeri
    Saenz is the player of the game? I would give it to Jayson Werth.
    2005-08-16 19:25:29
    545.   regfairfield
    540 He was kicked out. Whether or not he was managing was debatable, but I'd certainly believe that he wasn't.
    2005-08-16 19:25:39
    546.   Bob Timmermann
    539 541

    We'll let the people decide!

    The NL West is 3-0 today!

    2005-08-16 19:26:41
    547.   Mark Linsey
    Sweet!

    OK, if we manage to string together a three game win streak against Pedro, Smoltz, and Hudson, I'm going firmly back to denial until at least September, no matter what the Padres do.

    2005-08-16 19:26:43
    548.   Steve
    545 -- If he's managing, Choi is bunting, or Repko is batting for Choi and bunting. That is a lock bunt situation.
    2005-08-16 19:27:37
    549.   gcrl
    546 - i forgot the caps and the exclamation point.
    2005-08-16 19:28:11
    550.   Icaros
    The NL West is 3-0 today!

    Cards up on D-Backs 5-2 in the bottom of the 7th.

    Show/Hide Comments 551-600
    2005-08-16 19:28:39
    551.   Bob Timmermann
    550

    You're such a buzzkill, man.

    2005-08-16 19:29:23
    552.   Gen3Blue
    Of Course' I couldn't watch the end but Greig or Strav. just got more possible,eh Bob.
    2005-08-16 19:29:47
    553.   Icaros
    Sorry, but I thought we always wanted the NL West to lose, except for one team.

    Now 6-2 St. Louis.

    2005-08-16 19:30:50
    554.   Dave
    How about:

    NL WEST RULES!!

    2005-08-16 19:30:50
    555.   Icaros
    I know you were joking, Bob, just to make that official.

    8-2 Cards.

    2005-08-16 19:31:05
    556.   Dave
    Okay, maybe not.
    2005-08-16 19:31:19
    557.   Eric L
    And Gio vultures another win...
    2005-08-16 19:32:16
    558.   Dave
    557 - thanks. That made me lol!
    2005-08-16 19:34:20
    559.   Bob Timmermann
    Gio hadn't had a vulture for a while.

    Actually I do want all the other teams in the division to lose, but at the SABR convention, there were people talking about how the NL West should be stripped of its playoff berth if the champ isn't over .500.

    These people all were Mets and Phillies fans.

    I took umbrage.

    The umbrage doesn't react well with the phenobarbitol.

    2005-08-16 19:36:50
    560.   Icaros
    Mets and Phillies fans will say anything to feel like their teams are good.
    2005-08-16 19:38:52
    561.   natepurcell
    good win. still cant believe we won.
    2005-08-16 19:39:35
    562.   Icaros
    Royce Clayton's hair is getting really ridiculous.
    2005-08-16 19:41:02
    563.   oldbear
    No bunting, no phillips, letting Choi hit in the 9th. Me like all those things.

    Any chance that Choi gets a start tomorrow against Hudson? Or is it back to Robles/Izturis at the top, Valentin/Phillips middle, and Pitcher??

    Choi, AP, Ledee, Saenz need to play a WHOLE lot more.

    Even get Jose Cruz some at bats.

    2005-08-16 19:41:22
    564.   Dodgersrock24
    2 comeback wins in a row. Maybe the comeback magic from last year is starting to get in the Dodgers feel. Good win boys.
    2005-08-16 19:47:20
    565.   werthgagne31
    perez,werth,choi,seanz,ledee,bradley,kent,navarro all need to play, no izturis,robles,phillips,valentin,repko,cruz.
    valentin and cruz the main pinch hitters, robles pinch hitting when we just need someone to get on base.
    izturis, phillips, repko just flat out need to ride the pine in a big way.
    2005-08-16 19:48:06
    566.   Bob Timmermann
    Choi is 1 for 1 against Tim Hudson

    Jose Cruz is 3 for 30! But he hit a HR!

    Izturis is 2 for 3
    Kent is 5 for 16
    Ledee is 3 for 13
    Robles is 0 for 4
    Valentin is 4 for 17

    I think Jose Cruz will be hiding tomorrow so Tracy won't try to put him in against Hudson.

    2005-08-16 19:48:30
    567.   Nagman
    D Lowe's ERA now below 4.

    Still haven't won 4 in a row in a while, but that's 4 of 5, I bet its been a while since that's happened.

    Last 3 wins have been of the come-from-behind variety.

    2005-08-16 19:49:23
    568.   Steve
    What did Tracy do to get thrown out? Not the Choi ground"out." I saw that and he didn't even come out to argue, even though Choi was halfway to rightfield before the ball got there.
    2005-08-16 19:50:30
    569.   Bob Timmermann
    The next half inning, Johnson reached first on a play that was ruled an error on Kent although it looked like he was out.

    It was a cumulative thing.

    2005-08-16 19:52:51
    570.   Steve
    Was he out? (Johnson?)
    2005-08-16 19:53:10
    571.   natepurcell
    suns pitchers cant find the plate. 4 walks in the 8th. now 6-4 suns. come on kuo!
    2005-08-16 19:54:29
    572.   natepurcell
    i think johnson was safe. so ump got that call right. but choi was definately safe, and ump got that wrong.

    tracy got kicked out on the wrong play.

    2005-08-16 19:56:03
    573.   Steve
    Well, the important thing is that he got kicked out.

    Meanwhile, the A's can't hit the broad side of a barn. The Curse is likely to continue.

    2005-08-16 19:56:53
    574.   Jim Hitchcock
    And I...napped through the ninth...why?
    2005-08-16 19:57:07
    575.   natepurcell
    kuo strikes out the batter to end the threat only after walking in a run already.

    suns still winning 6-4 heading to the top of the 9th.

    2005-08-16 19:59:56
    576.   Steve
    574 -- Bob hasn't been sending you prescriptions, has he?
    2005-08-16 20:09:42
    577.   Fearing Blue
    Steve, could you please start rooting for the Padres? Thanks.
    2005-08-16 20:09:45
    578.   Jim Hitchcock
    No, but he might have put something in the eel :)
    2005-08-16 20:11:16
    579.   Mark Linsey
    Steve, all your posts here doesn't mean your thinking of coming back, is it? I ask because the A's just loaded the bases as I've seen your last couple posts and we need you to stay away if we're going to beat Hudson tomorrow.

    But as I typed this, the A's didn't score on a Payton fly ball that should have been deep enough. So I'll interpret that to mean you're still an A's fan.

    Come to think of it, why don't you just become a Padres fan?

    2005-08-16 20:12:24
    580.   Steve
    I think, in a sense, you could say that I am rooting for the Padres.
    2005-08-16 20:14:20
    581.   natepurcell
    suns win! 11 in a row! the suns win!
    2005-08-16 20:18:47
    582.   Steve
    579 -- It's worse! With first and third and one out and Dan Johnson up, Eric Chavez stole second! He took the bat out of Dan Johnson's cold, dead, hands, and left it up to Jay Payton and Scott Hatteberg. So dumb. The only difference between us and them is that Chavez kills the inning by making it, and Robles or Izturis kills the inning by getting thrown out.
    2005-08-16 20:34:03
    583.   fanerman
    Wouln't it be nice if Tracy were ejected from every game? Or perhaps before every game?

    Seriously, any chance Tracy learns a thing or two from today? ie, forgetting the olneys except in special circumstances, forgetting that evil RISP stat, playing Choi more often, etc.

    Though 120 pitches, even for Lowe, is quite a bit.

    2005-08-16 20:36:34
    584.   ddger
    I'm happy that Carrara did the job tonight but does anyone know why Carrara was used in a close game instead of Schmoll?
    2005-08-16 20:38:31
    585.   Steve
    The long shots paid off. The Dodgers and Devil Rays both won.
    2005-08-16 20:52:50
    586.   db1022
    if Tracy were ejected from every game? Or perhaps before every game?

    That may be too late. We need to get him before he sets the lineup.

    2005-08-16 20:52:59
    587.   Bob Timmermann
    From the end of the wire service story about the game tonight:

    "The Dodgers are 5-55 when trailing after the eighth inning."

    That's actually a decent record in that situation. I can't imagine many other teams have that many more come from behind wins that late.

    However, three teams came from behind in the ninth to win tonight: Boston, Tampa Bay, and the Dodgers. The first two needed extra innings.

    2005-08-16 21:08:10
    588.   GoBears
    587 Extra innings?! We don' need no steenkeen extra innings!
    2005-08-16 21:09:23
    589.   bill cox
    Jon,Thanks for the "Wrecking Crew" piece.I definitely want to read that.I have a theory that baseball is one of the great constants in American life and you can always get back from the ragged edge or climb back in the window from the ledge when you hear "Play ball!"Its got me out of a few psychological scrapes in my life.
    I'm riding over the Redneck Alps in Alabama to catch the game on thursday in Atlanta.
    2005-08-16 21:17:04
    590.   Eric Enders
    I seriously doubt Lett was making any managerial decisions here, BTW. Ejected managers pretty much always continue managing the game from the clubhouse. I see no good reason to think this game would be any different.
    2005-08-16 21:18:05
    591.   Bob Timmermann
    The way Reitsma was pitching, I think it was hard for anyone to screw up.
    2005-08-16 21:23:28
    592.   Eric Enders
    Except, of course, Reitsma.
    2005-08-16 21:27:12
    593.   Jim Hitchcock
    I'm riding over the Redneck Alps in Alabama to catch the game on thursday in Atlanta.

    Yes, but is your blue tick hound named `Beethoven'?

    2005-08-16 21:28:52
    594.   Steve
    Untested Hypothesis: The 2005 Braves are evidence that closers are not necessary to have a successful team.

    In other words, are they the exception or the rule?

    Discuss.

    2005-08-16 21:34:37
    595.   Bob Timmermann
    594
    What about Boston? Foulke was terrible and hurt and Schilling has been inconsistent.

    The White Sox closer is Dustin Hermanson!

    Frankie Rodriguez coughed up a lead in Anaheim so we could have FOUR teams winning after trailing after eight tonight.

    And the Jays closer is Miguel Batista.

    Which closer has the best save percentage this year? Is it Chad Cordero?

    2005-08-16 21:39:31
    596.   Steve
    With Rodriguez, it's not just the blown saves, but every inning lately seems to be two runners on, three runners on. The DL must be imminent, because that guy's stuff is just too good to be doing that.

    Florida is still using Todd Jones, right?

    2005-08-16 21:40:31
    597.   Steve
    Speaking of the White Sox, they're still playing.
    2005-08-16 21:45:06
    598.   Bob Timmermann
    With at least 20 saves, the best save percentage is 93.75% by Dustin Hermanson. He's 30 of 32 with the second blown save coming in tonight's game.

    In the NL, Billy Wagner is at 93.1% (27-29).

    2005-08-16 21:49:12
    599.   Bob Timmermann
    If the Twins win tonight, they would be the fifth team to win this day after trailing at the end of eight innings.
    2005-08-16 21:49:52
    600.   King of the Hobos
    A's are threatening in the 9th, Angels lost.
    Show/Hide Comments 601-650
    2005-08-16 21:50:53
    601.   Steve
    The A's just loaded the bases against the O's and BJ Ryan, but Jason Kendall is coming up.
    2005-08-16 21:52:39
    602.   Eric Enders
    Of course a good closer isn't necessary to have a good team.

    Same goes for every other role/position in baseball. You can win with a weakness at any position, so long as you make up for it elsewhere. This stuff about it being necessary to have a good closer, or a good shortstop, or a good catcher, is all a bunch of hooey. You can win without any of those if you're strong in other areas.

    You can even win without a good manager. (Yes, '01 DBacks, I'm looking at you...)

    2005-08-16 21:52:51
    603.   King of the Hobos
    The Chisox, on their last pitcher, have given up the lead. The Twins still have Nathan in the pen (and old frield Mulholland)
    2005-08-16 21:54:01
    604.   King of the Hobos
    Kendall hit it hard at Tejada, he couldn't handle it, everyone safe, 4-3 Orioles
    2005-08-16 21:55:07
    605.   Steve
    Every time I think of Bob Brenly, I think of taking Damian Miller over Paul LoDuca for the All-Star Game, and I get angry.
    2005-08-16 21:55:24
    606.   King of the Hobos
    Kotsay hit a shallow fly, Kielty decided to stay at 3rd. 1 out left
    2005-08-16 21:55:45
    607.   Bob Timmermann
    The 2003 Marlins had Ugueth Urbina as their closer.
    The 2001 DBacks has Byung-Hyun Kim, who wasn't all that bad except in the World Series.
    2005-08-16 21:57:07
    608.   King of the Hobos
    Crosby strikes out looking, and the curse of Steve continues
    2005-08-16 21:57:30
    609.   Bob Timmermann
    Well, there won't be more than five teans winning tonight after trailing after eight innings.
    2005-08-16 21:57:36
    610.   Steve
    This is the Curse that never ends, it just goes on and on and on...

    The moral of the story (as usual): just because you CAN steal a base, doesn't mean that you SHOULD steal a base

    2005-08-16 22:02:01
    611.   Bob Timmermann
    Steve,
    The Royals are coming to Oakland Friday.

    Somebody will have to win.

    2005-08-16 22:07:04
    612.   Steve
    But I thought that when the Dodgers played the Royals, and look what that got me...

    One thing about the A's, you can tell they put their best players on the field, because their bench tonight (without Swisher) was Adam Melhuse, Marco Scutaro, Keith Ginter, and Matt "the Next Jason Grabowski" Watson.

    2005-08-16 22:10:37
    613.   Bob Timmermann
    Since it's the 16th inning in Chicago and the Twins are up 9-4, no one is talking about Joe Nathan not being able to pitch in nonsave situations.
    2005-08-16 22:21:11
    614.   rageon
    Steve - I leave for a couple days to interview for a clerkship, and I come back to find that you've become an A's fan?!??

    I think my official turn to the A's happened in 2003, though it had been slowly building since about 1997. However, I was still a born and raised Dodger fan, so I wasn't able to completely shake them from the system. So when Depo took over, I gave them another chance, and have been about 50-50 for both teams since he was hired. This year has slowly pushed me back to the A's. And the comments in the Times about Tracy keep his job were just disturbing. I'm pretty much at the point where I'm just not caring about the Dodgers until Tracy is gone, or he comes to his senses.

    The whole idea of giving LA another try was that Depo was going to make sure stupid shit like Choi and Perez sitting wasn't going to happen. I noticed myself simply not caring about games that Choi wasn't playing in, because it was hard to cheer for a team that wasn't even trying to play its best players.

    Long story short, welcome to the world of Dodger Fans Turned A's Fans Who Would Like To Cheer For LA If Only They Weren't Run So F'n Poorly.

    2005-08-16 22:25:12
    615.   Xeifrank
    Nice win tonight. Happy to see Choi starting and getting two hits. Happy to see Buntermaker getting kicked out of the game. Noticed that the Dodgers are now tied in the loss column with the D-Backs.
    vr, Xei
    2005-08-16 22:29:31
    616.   GoBears
    Actually, CHoi got 3 hits. Only got credit for 2, tho. #$(*@#&$ing ump!
    2005-08-17 06:22:16
    617.   Colorado Blue
    My wife was surprised I got so upset about this game. You know, the whole ACCEPTANCE thing. But what upset me was not the one, but two blown calls at 1st base. I ACCEPT the Dodgers losing by under performing or bad strategy, but I HATE it when the umps get the wrong call on an important play. Then to exacerbate the situation he gets the call wrong again. Of course, both calls went in favor of Atlanta.

    Fortunately, strategy blunders were averted when Jimbo got the boot, so I guess the 1st blown call was a positive in some weird respect.

    And in spite of everything our boys rally in the 9th... turned out to be a good night after all.

    2005-08-17 07:32:15
    618.   Jon Weisman
    Rageon - no profanity on the site, please. If everyone else can avoid the temptation, you can. Thanks.
    2005-08-17 08:47:01
    619.   Howard Fox
    for me Acceptance occurs when we are mathematically eliminated...its the diehard in me...

    after last night and actually the past 5 days, I'm ready to buy my playoff tickets when they go on sale...

    2005-08-17 08:52:17
    620.   fanerman
    619 - I'm teetering back into denial, too. Though I'm still one hot streak and 2 players (Choi and Perez) away from going back full-fledged.

    Who was managing when Tracy got the boot?

    2005-08-17 08:52:50
    621.   db1022
    Does anyone have any insight on waiver logic this time of year?

    Gammons most recent article gives a lot of information on who was/was not put on waivers, who made it through, who was claimed and subsequently pulled back.

    Relevant Dodgers:

    On waivers, claimed, pulled back:
    Brazoban
    Saenz

    On waivers, cleared:
    Duaner
    Odalis
    Lowe

    Not put on waivers:
    Weaver

    2005-08-17 08:53:01
    622.   Vishal
    618 hehe, i don't think it was conscious. he probably didn't even notice he did it.

    anyway, just checking in from my friend's apartment in kansas city, mo! to whomever (i believe it was jim hitchcock) told me to take the million dollar highway through the ouray valley in colorado, THANK YOU. it was one of the most stunningly gorgeous places i've ever seen, right up there with yosemite. kansas sucked though, and it was interminable. including a lunch break, it took me 15 hours to get to KC from eastern CO yesterday.

    and what's this? the dodgers are back to five games out? and oscar robles has a highlight reel play on the mlb site? and it seems choi has been playing recently? what's up with that? and steve is an A's fan? hehehe

    2005-08-17 09:03:17
    623.   fanerman
    622 - Before yesterday, Choi was lifetime 2 for 3 against Smoltz. Tracy thought that sample size was significant, so Choi played.
    2005-08-17 09:07:14
    624.   jasonungar05
    I need us within 3 back to start being fanatical again. As of now I just watch or listen to every pitch of every game, spend all day on dodgerthoughts in between the work I am supposed to do. I also spend only part of my work day looking at other websites in order to find information on the dodgers.

    2 more games is all I ask so I can be a real fan again.

    2005-08-17 09:08:38
    625.   Jim Hitchcock
    Hey, Vishal, glad you enjoyed the Ouray! It really is gorgeous.

    I drove the other way (from KC to Colorado) one time. Not much there. Storm clouds were ahead of me the whole time...I was hoping for anything, a thunderstorm, tornado, anything...to break up the monotony. Never caught it. Didn't help that my 8-Trk had broken in Florida, and would only play track one. Nothing on the radio but two stations broadcasting...seriously...cow reports.

    Enjoy the trip.

    2005-08-17 09:15:36
    626.   Jon Weisman
    620 - Once again - accept that the Dodgers are mediocre, accept that the division is mediocre, and all your troubles go away. You won't need to think twice.
    2005-08-17 09:21:08
    627.   fanerman
    626 - But it's so hard to resist! Actually, I think I've come to terms with the Dodgers probably not winning the West. While it'd be great if they did and I still hope they do, I'm not totally disillusioned.

    But, I've gone back into denial on the chance that Choi and Perez will start getting regular playing time after their good performances in the last 2 games, though that may be sillier than being in denial about the Dodgers winning the West.

    2005-08-17 09:26:24
    628.   fanerman
    I'm not high enough into denial about Choi and Perez to plummet to my Dodger death if they go back to not playing again. I don't think my brain would allow that after what's gone in this season. But I'm back to hoping...
    2005-08-17 09:44:14
    629.   db1022
    To paraphrase - "A game a week, that's all we ask."

    Which would put us at 3 games out going into Sept, and beginning divisional play. (Except what's with the random Pittsburgh series at the end of September?)

    Until someone takes charge of the division, hope (and thus denial) still springs eternal.

    2005-08-17 09:51:26
    630.   Howard Fox
    I know on a good day, we are mediocre. But the truth is there is no team in the NL that top to bottom is great.

    I won't delude myself that we are going to the World Series. A game a week to win the west will be a huge task for us.

    But once we make the playoffs (the rabid fan in me speaking) anything is possible. Lately we have played the Phillies, Mets, Braves even, we even beat the Cardinals a game. If we can be good enough to take 2 of 3 in each series in September against our division foes, who knows what can happen in short playoff series.

    Remember, the playoffs is where Penny and Lowe have shined...two hot pitchers...

    I can dream, can't I?

    2005-08-17 09:52:14
    631.   fanerman
    I think there is a difference between Jon's acceptance and other people's acceptance. I think I'm in Jon's acceptance.

    The Choi/Perez matter is another issue. Though depending on the line-up today, I'll probably gracefully fall back into quiet acceptance.

    2005-08-17 09:52:43
    632.   Jon Weisman
    627 - "It's so hard to resist"

    Resist what?

    Resist thinking the Dodgers are great? They're not.

    Resist thinking the Dodgers can't win the division? They can.

    I'm going to work at you all to convince you, because you all are overthinking.

    If the Dodgers were a great team in a great division, you wouldn't be going through all these absolutes about whether they have a chance or not, or whether they were any good or not.

    You'd just know there was some chance they would win.

    This is no different. Don't wait for signs that they're going to become great or that Tracy is going to radically change his style. Just watch to see if this flawed team can win a flawed division.

    2005-08-17 09:56:15
    633.   Monterey Chris
    626

    Jon,

    I enjoy the site and I do think that you regularly influence the discussion here. However, sometimes terms become so widely entrenched in people's minds that influence becomes difficult. As you see people using the terms "denial" and "acceptance" both before and after your post (626), you can see that the terms are still not being defined your way (mediocre team in mediocre division) but are being defined the popular way (are the Dodgers out of it or not).

    I'm with you...keep trying! :)

    2005-08-17 10:02:33
    634.   fanerman
    633 - I was just kidding about the resisting part. And judging from 630, you still have convincing to do.

    But Choi and Perez are still my foolish hope and maybe just maybe they have a better chance of actually playing now than they did a week ago, though after second thought, I've stopped holding my breath.

    2005-08-17 10:02:56
    635.   fanerman
    I mean 632 not 633.
    2005-08-17 10:08:06
    636.   Howard Fox
    634 - I don't need convincing...

    I have been a Dodger fan since 1959. There have been more bad years than good years, but I have always remained true blue.

    Doesn't mean I don't criticize, question, argue, but I never lose faith.

    Do I see things for what they are? Yes I do.

    But if you are losing faith or questioning your conviction as a Dodger fan, that is up to you. I'll never lose that, even when we are eliminated (it'll never happen).

    2005-08-17 10:17:12
    637.   Jon Weisman
    633 - I get that the terms are entrenched. This isn't the first time I've taken a view that isn't the conventional view here. Mainstream conventions are not always right, whether they're in the media or on Dodger Thoughts.

    So don't worry about me. Just because "influence becomes difficult" doesn't mean it won't succeed.

    Howard, for example, seems to get it. He sees the flaws for what they are, both with the Dodgers and with the division. So he just roots for better things to come while he can, if I'm not mistaken.

    2005-08-17 10:18:53
    638.   Howard Fox
    637 - you are correct, right on the money
    2005-08-17 10:22:00
    639.   Kayaker7
    634 I don't quite understand the enthusiasm for A. Perez, based solely on his 2005 performance. I don't see anything in his minor nor brief major league appearances to suggest that we have an offensive juggernaut. Unless he has made a permanent improvement, it doesn't appear that he is likely to continue his current level of hitting. I do understand the frustration in seeing him out of the lineup in favor of poorer options, however. Thus, he may just be a poster child for the resentment at Tracy's cryptic lineup choices.

    Choi, on the other had, has been touted as a top prospect for a long time. Based on his minor league and major league appearances, 2005 is a bit of a disappointment, though not bad enough to warrant benching. I would hang my hope more on him turning out to be something for the Dodgers in the long run.

    2005-08-17 10:25:39
    640.   Jon Weisman
    639 - "offensive juggernaut" is a stronger term than I think anyone has used. But Perez has a long history of drawing walks at every level, he is very fast, and he has some extra-base power, so it does seem there's every reason to think he would be a valuable infielder if he could find a position.

    Your point about the frustration is more on target. In other words, unlike Izturis and Robles, Perez's talent is not dependent on getting a mess of singles.

    Does Choi have more potential than Perez in terms of OPS? Certainly.

    2005-08-17 10:29:13
    641.   fanerman
    I think we're all a lot closer in our mindsets than our comments may indicate. It has been much easier to watch the Dodgers after coming to terms with their limitations and accepting their situation.

    I just get caught up in the moment (which isn't until the morning after, because of being busy) and bask in a victory's glory or sulk in a humbling defeat.

    Howard, my loyalty is unwavering, though I've been a Dodger fan for much shorter than you have.

    639 - With Perez, it's more of a "see how long he can go" idea, while Choi's talents are more firmly cemented in my head. Perez is appears to be better than the alternatives, and deserves at least the chance to show his true colors.

    2005-08-17 10:32:39
    642.   Kayaker7
    640 Good point about the walks. Plus, he does the Joe Morgan chicken wing flap with the lead elbow, when he bats. This bodes well for a HOF career. Or, maybe he has future as an annoying sportscaster. ;-)
    2005-08-17 10:33:04
    643.   Bob Timmermann
    I say "Detached bemusement" is always best. Better than denial or acceptance.
    2005-08-17 10:33:42
    644.   Howard Fox
    639 - the frustration comes from what we perceive to be lesser offensive players playing over greater offensive players

    the frustration with Tracy, at least for me, is his decisions to rest certain players just as it appears they are hitting their stride and getting into a groove

    he rests Choi immediately after his 7 homer weekend and Choi never regains that stroke due to the subsequent inactivity...

    AP has hit consistently all season...will he continue to hit at that pace? probably not, but who knows?

    even Repko plays every day, he starts getting a couple hits a day during a stretch, and just as it appears he is starting to get it offensively, Tracy benches him...

    as far as Choi being a top prospect, how many more teams need to take a flier on him as this "top prospect" before that tag changes to "stiff"

    2005-08-17 10:35:35
    645.   Howard Fox
    642 - I love that arm flap too...
    2005-08-17 10:47:45
    646.   fanerman
    646 - Florida gave him a good chance and he did very well. He needs one more. Hopefully it's from us.

    I've never seen AP do an armflap. Being in enemy territory without cable sucks =(.

    2005-08-17 10:48:21
    647.   Jon Weisman
    I know better than to try to dissuade Howard of his opinion of Choi, but using the fact that Choi was traded twice against him, as many due, is just so unfair.

    Choi has been traded for:

    a) a current triple-crown candidate
    b) at worst, the third-best Dodger catcher of the past 30-50 years.

    How this counts against Choi continues to escape me.

    2005-08-17 10:49:04
    648.   Jon Weisman
    647 - "as many do" - not "as many due"
    2005-08-17 13:08:43
    649.   Colorado Blue
    620 - Who was managing when Tracy got the boot?

    I believe Colburn took the reins...

    My definition of ACCEPTANCE has solely to do with the fact that the Dodgers are a mediocre team and not as good relative to last year. Do I think they can win the division? Absolutely. Do I support DePo's long-term strategy and realize that the Dodger's woes are 80% injury related and 20% poor field management? Yes I do. Do I think a healthy Dodger team this year is better than last year's on paper? You bet!

    I use ACCEPTANCE as a state-of-mind where I can manage my emotions while the Dodgers continue to be mediocre. I also believe all the playing time the replacements are getting will pay off huge next year; I actually think 2006 will be even better than originally thought because 2005 has been so bad.

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