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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Sele vs. Perez
2006-05-08 07:01
by Jon Weisman

The pitcher dazzled his Dodger teammates by allowing only one run in 5 1/3 innings. He followed that game by holding the Giants to one run over seven innings, and then smothered another division rival by allowing only one run over six innings.

The pitcher was Odalis Perez, and the succession of superb starts is the reason I'm not sold on Aaron Sele as a starting pitcher nor on abandoning Perez completely.

Sele pitched very well in Dodger Stadium on Sunday, allowing one run in 6 2/3 innings. He had a shaky first two innings, but could have emerged unscored upon if he had been able to field a hard comebacker by opposing pitcher Dave Bush. With the bases empty, Sele works as quickly as any Dodger pitcher I can remember. Perez, meanwhile, has given up seven runs in each of his past two starts.

Look, I'm always looking for a trade that will improve the team, so if the Dodgers can get one, super. But I'm skeptical. So, operating under the premise that Sele and Perez will be organization-mates for a little while, I would just hesitate before crowning Sele the superior pitcher. While it could be that Sele is getting a third or fourth wind - and how great would that be - it's also still possible that Sunday was the highpoint of a last, Ericksonian hurrah.

Meanwhile, Perez's recent streak could be the result of distraction over his mother's possibly terminal illness. Perez could be in a simple slump, like Jeff Kent, Rafael Furcal or whoever. Dodger manager Grady Little is most assuredly partly responsible, demonstrably leaving Perez in games past the point of effectiveness. Perez also might need a wakeup call, a real challenge to his standing on the team.

I don't dismiss the possibility that Perez's best days are behind him. He may have lost his ability, he may have lost his desire. The pitcher has been almost maddeningly inconsistent, and there does come a Kaz Ishii-like time when you just want to retreat from the mystery. But there are several open-ended questions about the situation, and I would just caution people from overreacting to the fact that Sele has been better than Perez for 10 days.

Of course, in the end, I'm hoping Chad Billingsley is an answer.

* * *

Dodger legend Fernando Valenzuela has been elected to the Shrine of the Eternals of the Baseball Reliquary, along with Josh Gibson and Japanese baseball pioneer Kenichi Zenimura. The Shrine is a Hall of Fame for people "who have altered the baseball world in ways that supersede statistics." I believe this is a wonderful and deserved honor for Valenzuela.

Comments (384)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-05-08 07:26:43
1.   Suffering Bruin
How many phenoms or mania's have we had in Los Angeles? Fernandomania, certainly, and Nomomania. I think Tiger Woods when he first came on the scene could qualify as something similar, though perhaps more on a national level though he was Southern California based.

I'm sure given enough time I would be able to think of more but Fernando was my favorite mania. I still wonder what would've happened had he started for us in 1980 against Houston instead of Dave Goltz.

2006-05-08 07:28:41
2.   Bob Timmermann
Fernando Valenzuela had pitched two innings on Friday and two innings on Sunday. The playoff was Monday. Valenzuela would not have been a viable option to start.
2006-05-08 07:30:09
3.   Bob Timmermann
That said, SELEMANIA!
2006-05-08 07:32:30
4.   Vishal
i'll move (and paraphrase) my comment from the other thread:

if we could get an aaron heilman or a xavier nady from the mets for odalis, i wouldn't mind it. i don't know if that's possible though.

2006-05-08 07:36:49
5.   Bob Timmermann
If the Mets were desperate enough for Odalis Perez to give up either Heilman or Nady, I believe we should all have a parade in L.A. to celebrate the fleecing of Omar Minaya.
2006-05-08 07:46:02
6.   DXMachina
I'd be happy with Heilman, but I don't think the Mets will be trading away any pitchers (well, maybe Lima) in the near future. I'm just not sure what the Mets have (and would be willing to part with) that the Dodgers would want.
2006-05-08 07:48:06
7.   Bob Timmermann
Lasorda's options for the 1980 playoff game:
Hooton had started on Sunday
Reuss has started on Saturday
Sutton started on Friday and relieved on Sunday
Valenzuela relieved on Friday and Sunday
Welch wasn't healthy and had missed his last start, which Goltz took

The only other healthy starter was Rick Sutcliffe and he was worse than Goltz in 1980.

Lasorda was going to war without his full complement of troops.

Jay Johnstone had to start in right, Mickey Hatcher at third, and Derrel Thomas at shortstop.

The Dodger pinch hitters in the game were Vic Davalillo, Jack Perconte, and Gary Thomasson.

That Dodgers team would have been an easy target for the Phillies in the NLCS.

2006-05-08 07:58:06
8.   Blu2
Since it's only money, and not even my own, I'd be more than happy to pay half of Perez's salary for the next two years if the Mets would give us Sanchez back. Sanchez might have potential as a starter, too. Good advice not to throw all your luggage on the Sel Bandwagon. He might pitch better than, about the same, or not as good as Perez. Like I said before, I don't trust or expect much out of any pitcher. To put that in proper context, we're really happy with any batter that is sucessful 30% to 35% of the time. Yet a pitcher that pitches well "only" 50% to 70% of the time gets roasted by us. Not very realistic and I'm as bad as the rest of you in that respect. Personally, if I were building a team, I'd put all the money in players with lots of on base percentage and players who can hit a lot of home runs, I'd use other teams rejects for pitchers. A team that averages 8 to 10 runs per game is going to win a lot of games. What's wrong with 10 to 8 or 8 to 6 wins? They count as much as cute little 1 to 0 jobs.
2006-05-08 07:58:28
9.   Sam DC
The Post is blessed to have Andrew Beyer write about horseracing. He is the one who invented the speed ratings that show up in modern racing forms (e.g. "92-10"). Smart guy, great writer, lover of the sport.

Today, writing about Barbaro's win in the Derby, he predicts that "barring some unlucky development, he is going to win the Triple Crown." Interesting read if you go in for that sort of thing.

2006-05-08 08:08:01
10.   Vishal
[8] but if you think about it, a pitcher that pitches well only 50-70% of the time is allowing the batters he's facing to be successful around 30-50% of the time, which means the other team's fans are pretty happy. and both sides can't be happy.
2006-05-08 08:08:15
11.   LAT
Given his salary, there is no good reason to deal OP. First, with that contract no one is going to take him on for free, even the Mets. Second, we are not going to get anything in return. Third, he is famous for these bad spells and they are as expected as his good ones. Fourth, if Sele is for real, we need a long relief arm in the bull pen (someone to come in when OP, Tomko or Sao blow up in the third inning). Fifth, while Op's inconsistancy is maddening, when he is on he is as good as any pitcher out there. Finally, even if we dump the contract, I do not believe Frank will committed that money elsewhere, so what have we gained. One more thing, its only the second month of the season.

Frankly, I am more concerned about OP's injury pronness (a made up word, I think) than his ablity.

2006-05-08 08:11:55
12.   Vishal
also: the star-studded, 9-figure-salary yankee lineup is producing 6.3 runs a game (183 runs in 29 games, i believe). if you want 8-10 runs a game, how are you going to afford that kind of talent, even with your pitching staff all making the league minimum?
2006-05-08 08:12:49
13.   Vishal
[11] (proneness)
2006-05-08 08:15:50
14.   Vishal
by the way, inconsistency is probably underrated. i think i'd rather have gems (which we are very likely to win) and some blowouts (which we would most likely lose) than a lot of mediocre outings which could go either way.
2006-05-08 08:16:26
15.   LAT
13. Of course. "Pronness" duh, what was I thinking?
2006-05-08 08:31:30
16.   underdog
I'm hoping Billingsley is an answer, too. In the meantime, I think the Dodgers really should start Perez against the Giants this weekend, given his success against them in the recent past. If he gets hammered, then you have to consider dropping him, but I'd take it one week at a time at this point. If he and Sele both pitch well, over the next few weeks, well, that's not a bad "problem" to have. If neither, do, then, Billingsley. My other worry with getting rid of Perez would be that he's a lefty in a division with at least one lefty-heavy lineup - Arizona. Except Perez got bombed by Az, 7 runs in 4 innings, so I don't know if that's a good enough reason.

And yet another issue with him, besides his injury history, is that he is a head case at times. It seemed like he was more jazzed up for this season than he was last year, but he does tend to check out sometimes, etc. So, basically I have mixed feelings about him, and about keeping him vs. getting rid of him - but the latter does depend on how desperate a team (the Mets) is to get him.

Lastings Milledge anyone? (Right.)

2006-05-08 08:39:14
17.   Marty
I've never been a fan of OP and would love to get rid of him. I hate it when he blames his teammates when things don't go his way, but never seems to credit them when he wins.

That said, I need to see about 5 good outings from Sele before I drink THAT kool-aid. My attitude now is anything he gives us is Lima-style gravy.

So, I guess I don't want to do anything.

2006-05-08 08:47:52
18.   Vishal
[16] hah! they were talking milledge for barry zito, and perez is no zito. not that zito has been all that consistent lately either.
2006-05-08 08:48:17
19.   Marty
Jim Tracy is trying to convert a catcher to a first baseman even though he has a better one already. Seems vaguely familiar:

2006-05-08 08:48:36
20.   CharlieBrown
To be honest, I think the whole "dump Odalis" movement in the organization is a little bizarre. To me, this guy is a league average starter, along the lines of Derek Lowe or Brad Penny (just compare their work the past few years). Maybe he's more 'inconsistent' but as one of the earlier comments points out, why is 'consistency' so much better? I think Bill James did a study on that.

Apparently, Odalis is considered something of a prickly, difficult personality (like Milton Bradley, but in a different way). None of us probably knows enough to comment on that, but it's hard to imagine Aaron Sele is a better option than Odalis. That the Dodgers would release him if not for his contract (as reported in LA Times) seems absurd. Unless he has totally lost his desire to pitch or something like that--which apparently would have happened sometime between his 3-0 start and now.

2006-05-08 08:56:36
21.   Nagman
Does anybody know the terms of Sele's renegotiated contract? Was it just a decrease in base salary? What is the length?
2006-05-08 09:08:26
22.   Marty
I think it was just a decease of salary, from 900k to 500k. I also think it's a one-year contract.
2006-05-08 09:27:15
23.   blue22
Overpriced bust for overpriced bust:

Cliff Floyd for Odalis Perez?

Floyd is off the books this year, and could satisfy LA's need for left handed power (if he starts hitting, that is).

2006-05-08 09:44:37
24.   ToyCannon
Seems much more likely that the Dodgers will move Sele to a team desperate for starting pitching for average middle relief help while reserving Billingsly to replace OP if he doesn't recover. Moving Sele for Heath Bell would make sense for both teams. Sele couldn't possibly command more then that and Bell would be an upgrade over Saito/Osaria.

Sele is not the answer to replacing OP but we should be happy that Ned had him stashed away in AAA. He pitched great last night against a solid offensive team and gave the team a huge boost.

2006-05-08 10:04:14
25.   Bob Timmermann
Floyd is off the books this year

Are the Mets paying him under the table? Did they sign him to a contract or did they just pick him up waiting around a Baseball Depot store looking for work? :-)

2006-05-08 10:07:00
26.   underdog
20 While it's true that Lowe and Penny are prone to inconsistency (and heck, 95% of the starting pitchers probably are), I dunno, from what I've observed over the past year, I think Lowe and Penny are a lot more solid at this point than Perez. Perez can be good, but when he's bad, he's very, very bad indeed, and while he's had a few mediocre games, I haven't seen Penny be truly horrible - and most of the time he's pretty solid, will reliably get you fairly deep into a game. Ditto Lowe. After his awful first game this season, he's been pretty darned good. I trust them a lot more than I trust Perez from game to game and I just don't see how can you lump them together. Just imho...

It probably is true, though, that the Dodgers will shop Sele instead, or too... depending on who's interested.

2006-05-08 10:10:16
27.   blue22
25 - November 2006 is still technically "this year", calendar-wise.

He's due to make $6.5M "this season".

2006-05-08 10:18:13
28.   DodgerJoe
I am always inclined to give management the benefit of the doubt. And I felt the same way with OP, even up to this year. But not any more. His pitching, which is sometimes brilliant, has lacked. He can't blow a 5 run and 6 run lead in the same month.

And he seems to be a clubhouse problem although I am not there, so I can't be certain. There's always someone or something else to blame for his performance.

I hope that Ned finds a trade partner for him. Sele and/or Billingsly would do just fine. And there's Houlton. You can't tell me any one of these options would be that much worse than Odalis.

2006-05-08 10:20:16
29.   dzzrtRatt
Under the theory of buy low/sell high, the guy we should be dangling before the Mets is Sele. Relative to what the Dodgers would be giving up, we'd get more value back given his 2006 performance so far, including Spring Training. Perez should be traded after he goes through one of his spells when he is pitcher-of-the-month good.
2006-05-08 10:30:16
30.   blue22
29 - Two things there:

1. I can't believe that a team would think that Sele is "back", and thus offer anything meaningful for him. Sele hasn't had an ERA under 5 since 2002 (w/ Anaheim, 4.89).

Look no further than the Mets very own Jose Lima for a prescedent on how a pitcher can briefly put it all together, only to revert back to their old self given enough time.

2. Sele makes next to nothing. Odalis makes $20M this year and next. If the Mets would take on that salary, I wouldn't much care what came back in return, as I doubt it would be more than what Sele would fetch.

2006-05-08 10:47:23
31.   dzzrtRatt
In gross terms, Perez' market value is higher than Sele's. What I believe is that the Dodgers are more likely to net out ahead in a Sele deal than a Perez deal. If traded today, Perez is perceived as damaged goods, and thus his value discounted in terms of the expected return. If Sele was traded today, I'd argue his value is inflated, and so relative to his real value, we'd get more back. Yes, of course, we'd get more back in gross terms by trading Perez, but the trade wouldn't net out in the Dodgers' favor.

Perez's salary isn't much of a factor in my mind right now. It's budgeted, it's not standing in the way of any other move we might want to make, and we can always shed it later. I tend to think Perez is going to end up being a worthwhile pitcher to have on our roster, despite the emotional toll of his ups and downs. His trade value isn't going to drop much further than it has already, barring a debilitating injury, and we know there's a market for him. The question is when is the optimal time to put him on the market, and I'd say "not now."

2006-05-08 10:53:29
32.   blue22
31 - Don't discount the "Minaya factor". He's the Isiaih Thomas of MLB. He also seems to have an affinity for Latin-based players.

Odalis' salary this year isn't a burden, but I'll take an extra $10M for next year's budget.

2006-05-08 10:58:31
33.   Midwest Blue
26 I hear Chris Isaak: "Baby did a bad, bad thing..."
2006-05-08 11:00:48
34.   LAT
30. Regarding #2, the only reason to get rid of OP's salary is if you think the money saved will be redeployed. Of course none of us but Frank know for sure, but I don't see that happening.

Also, I am not interested in making any moves right now. With an exception or two, the starting pitching is solid. The offense has awakened. And this while Kent and Furcal are stinking up the place which is not going to continue indefinitely. The defense is fine, especially with Martin behind the plate. Let's face it, the place where we are awful is the bullpen. Baez is not going to continue this way. He didn't save 42 games with this kind of problem, it will get worked out. Gagne will be back shortly. Sele can help in long relief. Beimel looks good as does Broxton.

As for the big picture, let's face it Colorado is not this good. They should wake up any minute now and remember who they are. Az is better than Co but not much. Green and the rest of them are not going to continue to put up 8-9-10 runs a game and their bullpen is worse than ours. The Giants are bad and getting worse. Of course, Barry will get better than he is hitting now, but the rest of that offense in anemic, especially with Alou out. Let's face it, when Randy Winn is a force in your line-up that should be your first sign the iceberg is approaching. In addition their entire staff, starters and bullpen alike are horrible. The Padres should be better than they are and I expect they will get better.

In short, The Dodgers with a lousy Furcal, Kent and Baez are playing below their potential. CO and AZ are playing over their heads. The Giants will not get materially better. The Pods should get better but not as good as the Dodgers. I am willing to play this hand as dealt.

2006-05-08 11:05:46
35.   Blu2
Well, we all have our opinions and who knows which is correct? (Notice how neatly I sidestepped that who/whom thing?) As usual our opinions count for nothing, only the Dodger Staff has an opinion that matters and we can only speculate on it by what they say and don't say. How is this for a possibility? They want to bring up Billingsly to start, therefore they need to 'lose' a starter in some manner; maybe they would rather drop Perez than Tomko or Seo, money might influence that decision. They would surely rather have Sele in relief rather than Perez, money AND other reasons. So they would rather trade him, getting anybody for him would be a bonus; addition by subtraction. If Floyd is available, his power certainly wouldn't hurt us, and I'd be willing to pay part of Perez's salary to make that happen. He could replace Ledee as left-handed pinch hitter and part time player, I'd be willing to throw Ledee in on that deal...
2006-05-08 11:05:52
36.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies road trip to St. Louis and Houston should give us an indication of how good the Rockies are. I don't think they're that bad.

The Rockies have three in St. Louis, a day off, three in Houston, then home to play the Dodgers for three, a day off and then three at home with traditional interleague rival Toronto!

2006-05-08 11:11:14
37.   Blu2
(34) In short, The Dodgers with a lousy Furcal, Kent and Baez are playing below their potential. CO and AZ are playing over their heads. The Giants will not get materially better. The Pods should get better but not as good as the Dodgers

Lat, you missed a chance for a good line: "The Giants have no potential..."

2006-05-08 11:17:24
38.   Underbruin
34 - "With an exception or two, the starting pitching is solid."

An exception or two? Umm... that's 40% of your rotation. And if Perez is indeed starting to slide down a very steep and slippery slope, it could be argued that should be "an exception or three," though I guess it would no longer be the exception.

What worries me is how much has to go "right" for the Dodgers to confidently move ahead in the division. The Rocks have to start playing much worse (claims that they're bad notwithstanding...), as to the DBacks. Meanwhile, the LADs have to start playing better. Meanwhile, you're banking on the improvement of a 38-year-old 2nd baseman, as well as the continued excellent play of several suspect members of the team, headlined by our good friend Mr. Repko (as much as I like seeing improvement in young guys, if he OPSs over .900 for the season I'll eat my hat.

The team is better than they've played. And some of their competition is probably worse. But unless the team is a lot better, or the competition is a lot worse, that still might well end up meaning the Dodgers lose a still-weak NL West.

2006-05-08 11:18:17
39.   underdog
The Padres are already getting better - haven't they won 8 in a row? I also then expect them to get worse again. The Rockies are better than anyone expected - that their pitching hasn't sucked has particularly surprised me - and I don't expect them to fall apart, but I also don't expect them to continue to roll as they have. When the Dodgers play them that would be a good time to snap them out of it, rather than vice versa. All told, the NL West as a whole is full of streaky teams this year; it's better from top to bottom than last year but all the teams will be way up and way down a lot.
2006-05-08 11:27:55
40.   MartinBillingsley31
Just get perez contract off the books.
Offer him to the mets for nothing, just make them eat his salary.
We have billingsley ready, and if the dodgers want billingsley to get a couple more months in the minors just use sele till then.
We are not going to win the world series this year, so its a win win to dump perez salary.
2006-05-08 11:33:46
41.   Uncle Miltie
While I don't expect Ned to make any creative deals, how about this one?

Odalis Perez and Jose Cruz
Cliff Floyd, Jorge Julio, and Xavier Nady (I don't think there's any chance that we can get Heilman)

2006-05-08 11:37:46
42.   underdog
I really don't see the Mets trading Nady right now, because he's been real hot and very helpful to them. But I particularly don't see them giving up that much for Perez and Cruz. Maybe one for one would be more realistic... Guess we'll see what transpires though.
2006-05-08 11:38:34
43.   Eric Enders
It looks like Matt Kemp may be suspended for a few games. From BA:

"The Birmingham Barons ended up leaving the field during the eighth inning of their Saturday game against the Jacksonville Suns when manager Chris Cron decided that to continue playing would likely lead to further fighting.

The Barons were trailing 11-5 at the time, which became the official score after the Barons' decision to not take the field.
Problems within the game started in the sixth inning, when Jacksonville righthander Spike Lundberg threw a pitch close to Barons' infielder Corey Smith. Smith gestured with his bat toward Lundberg and after a brief exchange, both benches emptied.

Order was restored, but at the end of the inning, Lundberg and Smith went at it again, and the benches again emptied. At one point, an opposing player hit Cron in the face.

According to the paper, Cron and both radio announcers identified Matt Kemp as the player who took a swing at the manager, but Suns manager John Shoemaker said he did not see Kemp punch anyone.

'I'll say that Matt Kemp is a very talented player,' Cron said. 'He can run, hit for average, hit for power and play center field. I told [White Sox farm director]David Wilder I thought he was the real deal and that if he had the chance, he was a guy we'd like to have.

'All I'll say about what happened is I'm retracting that statement right now. Some things are more important than what you can do on the field.'"

2006-05-08 11:39:42
44.   blue22
41 - Floyd and Julio for OP and Cruz would be interesting.

Nady would probably be asking too much, and they still need him in the OF. I think we have too many RH-bats as it is.

Has NY soured on Julio so quickly?

2006-05-08 11:43:23
45.   Bob Timmermann
Only in the Dodgers current bullpen would Jorge Julio be considered an upgrade.
2006-05-08 11:48:54
46.   bluegold
Sele is merely a bandaid for a pitching staff that requires surgery. A bandaid lasts, what, a few days at best?
2006-05-08 11:49:22
47.   Inside Baseball
Odalis Perez and Rick Monday for Cliff Floyd and Keith Hernandez. Done.
2006-05-08 11:52:20
48.   Bob Timmermann
I would rather have Ron Darling than Keith Hernandez from the Mets broadcast team.

Hernandez is full of himself.

2006-05-08 11:53:37
49.   blue22
46 - A bandaid lasts, what, a few days at best?

Hopefully, just until the All-Star break, which is about 2 months. That's the timetable for Chad Billingsley.

That equates to about 8 starts or so needed from Sele.

2006-05-08 11:53:44
50.   Marty
I doubt Kim Ng would agree to any deal involving Keith Hernandez. Bill Singer is probably his agent.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-05-08 11:54:14
51.   blue22
48 - But he's Keith Hernandez.
2006-05-08 11:54:50
52.   Inside Baseball
You're right. Odalis Perez and Rick Monday for Cliff Floyd and Ron Darling. Done.
2006-05-08 11:59:34
53.   Inside Baseball
Ooh, and maybe if we throw in Steve Lyons they'd give us Mr. Met. He could be in charge of cheering up Kent.
2006-05-08 12:02:46
54.   Blu2
53. Inside Baseball
Ooh, and maybe if we throw in Steve Lyons they'd give us Mr. Met. He could be in charge of cheering up Kent.

But don't we already have someone to light a fire under him????

2006-05-08 12:06:00
55.   Marty
Good piece up the page from Mike's Baseball Rants. It mostly deals with old friend and butter-and-egg-on-his-face man LoDuca.
2006-05-08 12:12:01
56.   Uncle Miltie
Throw in Charley Steiner and Dave O'Brien and it's a deal!
2006-05-08 12:21:00
57.   Vishal
say what you will about rick monday, as inane and worthless as he is when he announces, he doesn't seem like a jerk.
2006-05-08 12:39:35
58.   Fallout
...I would just hesitate before crowning Sele the superior pitcher.

I would say that they both are marginal pitchers with a similarity that they both have extreme ups and downs. Inconsistent if you will...

2006-05-08 12:42:14
59.   underdog
Yeah, as much as I criticize Rick Monday when he's doing play by play (he's marginally better as a commentator), he seems relatively innocuous next to Keith Hernandez. No thanks.
2006-05-08 12:42:50
60.   ToyCannon
57Faint praise

Clippers are off to the land of the Sun in their 1st ever 2nd round playoff as the Clippers. Hoping for a split and at least a 6 game series. Not really expecting a series victory but it would be so sweet if it could happen. The keys will be Caveman, Corey, and Livingston. If Caveman controls the paint he will offset Thomas and his outside shooting. Brand will offset Marion and Ross will make Nash work plenty hard. Livingston must continue to be aggressive when he's in the game. Corey is the only Clipper that can match Barboso's speed and if he leads the Clips in scoring like he did against Denver we have a chance because alot of those points will be from the line so we can put the Suns in foul trouble.

Colorado will be in last place by the end of the year. The pitching will fold during July/Aug/Sept. Arizona is another manner and I still expect them to be our competition. They still have the ability to move Clark, Green, Quentin, Counsel, or C Jackson for pitching while upgrading at SS with Drew and CF with Chris Young later this summer.

2006-05-08 12:43:47
61.   Fallout
Also, I look for Sele to slide after the All Star break.
2006-05-08 12:48:53
62.   Jon Weisman
Aaron's middle name is Helmer.
2006-05-08 13:03:28
63.   regfairfield
61 Sele has had Lance Carter esque perhiprial stats since about 2002. He doesn't strike anyone out (less than five per nine), walks a decent amount of people and isn't all that good at keeping the ball in the park.

Every successful start he makes should be seen as divine intervention.

2006-05-08 13:11:30
64.   dsfan
I don't see anybody proclaiming that Sele is any kind of long-term answer, or even that he's better than Perez, long term. For $500,000 pro-rated, he has a chance to be a nice value. He's off to a decent start. But most people seem to know what he is.

One of Depo's failings last year was he didn't have the 4A-plus starters you need in Triple-A to plug into a rotation.

The Padres did, one reason they won the NL West. If Sele can give the LAD a decent run for a month or two, he's been worth the money. He's also buying time for Billingsley, no small thing.

2006-05-08 13:15:45
65.   dsfan
Here's how a smart club would handle the O. Perez situation:

Support him as strongly as possibly. This improves the chance he gets on a little roll -- then you trade him.

Strong support also reduces the media connecting so many dots that reduce his trade value -- such as reports that the LAD are gleeful he left the club and would be tempted to release him if his contract were small.

Of course, a smart club wouldn't have guaranteed him so much money, after being around him and all of his problems the last few years.

2006-05-08 13:20:19
66.   dsfan
I'd offer Perez and Guzman to the Mets for Milledge and a pretty good pitching prospect.

Let's say you could save $15 million on the deal.

2006-05-08 13:24:04
67.   Blu2
60 Perez for Green! LOL
2006-05-08 13:25:27
68.   Blu2
66 No, Cruz or Ledee instead of Guzman.
2006-05-08 13:25:59
69.   natepurcell
i wouldnt mind getting victor diaz back. That guy can hit and has power.

too bad he is like manny in the outfield.

2006-05-08 13:26:21
70.   Fallout
Aaron's middle name is Helmer.

Is Timmermann using Weisman's computer?

2006-05-08 13:26:30
71.   natepurcell
Odalis, Kent, Cruz for milledge and victor diaz.

do it!

2006-05-08 13:30:28
72.   Marty
Not even close to on topic, but I found a great web site for cajun music if you are into that, which I am. Some from back in the 20s:

2006-05-08 13:33:31
73.   dodgerprofiles
Just finished another player profile on

This one is of Luis Alcaraz who played briefly and poorly for the Dodgers in 1966 and 1967.

Check out Alcaraz' profile plus many more (Mike Marshall, Stan "Big Daddy" Williams and Steve Howe) since Jon wrote about my site in his blog the other day

2006-05-08 13:37:23
74.   Jon Weisman
64 - Given that Erickson started the season in the rotation, then Houlton, Dessens, Jackson, Alvarez and Thompson were among the backups DePodesta had to replace him. Those names are plenty competitive with Sele.
2006-05-08 13:50:26
75.   jasonungar05
Maybe Ned can intice the Mets with All Star Lance Carter?
2006-05-08 13:56:02
76.   natepurcell
some hochevar news:

here were nine major league scouts on hand Wednesday night in Kilgore to watch Hochevar strike out three in two exhibition innings. Another dozen or more are likely to show up Monday (6 p.m. first pitch) in excess of 20 for his regular-season debut Saturday.

2006-05-08 13:56:42
77.   natepurcell
Also if you trade odalis, it would be nice to sign hochevar with the savings.
2006-05-08 13:56:49
78.   DodgerJoe
74 - When is Derek Thompson expected back? I thought he did a real nice job in the minimal appearances he had.
2006-05-08 13:59:27
79.   Jon Weisman
78 - I think he'll start throwing again this summer. Might be on the radar again in 2007.
2006-05-08 13:59:44
80.   Uncle Miltie
nate- Hochevar will never be a Dodger as long as Logan White is here.
2006-05-08 14:01:25
81.   natepurcell
I wouldnt say never. Lets just see how things play out. Last minute deals happen all the time.
2006-05-08 14:07:29
82.   Ladderkite
Outfield continues to be a pressing need for the dodger future, and with fewer free agent possibilities on the horizon than usual, and mediocritie$ like Torii and S. Stewart on the trade block, why not make a major push for Milledge? Honestly. OP isn't Zito, granted, so we should overpay (trade) to get such a rare talent as Milledge. An outfield of Drew, Milledge, and Guzman/Ethier for the next decade doesn't sound that bad to me.
2006-05-08 14:15:11
83.   blue22
82 - The Mets don't seem to be the type to do prospect-for-prospect trades, and LA doesn't have any MLers that the Mets would want (OP doesn't count).

Now if Depo had offered Kent last year...

Also, if it's an OFer you want, how about Miguel Cabrera as a target? That's more up LA's alley.

2006-05-08 14:16:46
84.   dagwich
72 Marty, that's a very cool site. I spent a bit of the weekend streaming WWOZ's live coverage of the NO Jazz Festival. This would have been quite the year to go -- Springsteen, Dylan, as well as the usual outstanding lineup.

At work I sometimes listen to KVRS (Lafayette), lots of great Cajun and cajuny-rock music.

Thanks for the tip.

2006-05-08 14:18:29
85.   dsfan


Houlton wouldn't count as a Triple-A backup -- he was a Rule 5 pick who had to stay on the 25-man roster.

Depo's Triple-A insurance policies were Edwin Jackson and Pat Maholmes. Didn't D. Thompson start out in Double-A? Entering 2005, there were concerns about his max-effort delivery and elbow history -- concerns that were realized when he blew out. DT was of some help. Not sure he had one outing as good as Sele's.

Jackson did more harm than good. They didn't trust Maholmes, for good reason.

2006-05-08 14:19:47
86.   Ladderkite
I know that the Milledge proposal is slightly tinged with fantasy dust, but the Cabrera deal is even too much for me. I don't want to give away our farm system, and that's what it's going to take to get anything out of florida. I, for one, actually believe that the fish are keeping their two superstars. Why not Kent now? Are we that entrenched in the Kent camp that we will deny that he is old and maybe declining?
2006-05-08 14:21:31
87.   dsfan
You'll have to give up something of significant perceived value to get Milledge.

That's why I mentioned Guzman. His Dominican roots can't hurt -- Omar reputedly is keen on Latin players.

2006-05-08 14:23:12
88.   Bob Timmermann

I thought the same thing. Then again Jon and I could be the same person. "Bob Timmermann" could be Jon's sock puppet name.

2006-05-08 14:23:42
89.   blue22
86 - I think if LA goes Guzman/catcher (Dioner or Russell)/pitcher (not CBills), it gets Cabrera.

Since last July's deadline, Kent was extended another year at $10M, and is off to a lovely Mendoza start. His trade value is off the cliff bad right now.

2006-05-08 14:24:59
90.   Ladderkite
87 - We have waited too long for Guzman. I think it would be a shame to trade him now, and besides what would we tell Dan Evans?
2006-05-08 14:25:20
91.   underdog
87 But why trade a top outfield prospect for another top OF prospect? Does it make sense for either team? How about Navarro and OP?
2006-05-08 14:25:28
92.   Vishal
i would love to trade kent for a pitcher or an outfielder, and stick willy aybar at 2nd.
2006-05-08 14:27:41
93.   Ladderkite
92 - Izzy is a nice option at 2b don't forget.
2006-05-08 14:36:48
94.   dsfan

You trade Guzman for Milledge if you think Milledge is better, or a better fit for your franchise. I believe Milledge is simply better than Guzman. Guzman's ability to play 1B adds to his value but I think he'll strike out once for every two-and-half major-league ABs for at least 1-2 years. For me, he's a poor man's D. Lee with less defensive skill -- the growing pains at the plate could be pretty acute, even with the enticing power.

2006-05-08 14:37:25
95.   Vishal
[93] oh yeah, i forgot we had him!

he's also a nice option for additional trade bait :)

2006-05-08 14:43:01
96.   Steve
I think Jon's sock puppet name is "Steve"
2006-05-08 14:45:25
97.   Bob Timmermann
I thought it was "goat".
2006-05-08 14:48:22
98.   Jon Weisman
85 - Are you going to be a stickler for where the starting rotation backups were? You're saying that if DePodesta stashed his backups on the major league roster or in AA, they don't count? That makes the comparison pretty pointless.

I think it's a bit much to say Colletti out-planned DePodesta based on one Aaron Sele start.

2006-05-08 14:50:49
99.   blue22
95 - I'm assuming the Izturis to Washington rumors were floated in earlier threads when Guzman went down?
2006-05-08 14:53:40
100.   Fallout
91 underdog
How about Navarro and OP?

Navarro and LoDuca on the same team would be too ironic.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-05-08 15:00:40
101.   oldbear
One of Depo's failings last year was he didn't have the 4A-plus starters you need in Triple-A to plug into a rotation

Bad pitching is bad pitching. These 4A-plus starters are bad pitchers. This is the first argument I've heard suggesting that DePo failed bc he didnt have a washed up veteran pitcher at AAA. Whats the point of that? If you bring up one of them to the major leagues, they will likely get bombed. Sele will likely get bombed. Most pitchers arent horrible for 3+ years and then all the sudden become good (at Sele's age).

There's at least something to be gained from calling up Derek Thompson or Edwin Jackson, or letting Houlton pitch. They could all improve and they havent been proven to be awful since they are still young. With Sele or Erickson, there's nothing to be gained. Anyways, I'd argue that DePo did have that veteran scrap heap washed up pitcher at AAA. He was Scott Erickson, and he lasted 8 miserable starts with the Dodgers. Hopefully Sele doesnt last that long bc I think results will be the exact same.

2006-05-08 15:01:42
102.   Eric Enders
He had Pat Mahomes too.
2006-05-08 15:09:28
103.   King of the Hobos
Doesn't Navarro have to go to Florida before he goes to the Mets? Or can he skip that because the Dodgers aren't his first team?
2006-05-08 15:09:46
104.   dsfan

Going into a season, you want a couple of decent starters who can come up from the minors and plug the rotation. In that area, e LAD were ill-prepared last year, more so when you consider that Penny's health concerns preceded the 2004-05 offseason.
Sele's one start doesn't mean the LAD are better prepared this year in that area. That's wrong of me to leave that impression. His performance caused me to revisit a subject I posted on this winter.

2006-05-08 15:10:11
105.   Underbruin
101 - As he said, though, Erickson was on the major league roster as one of LA's five starters at the beginning of the season. You could switch the claim, then, that DePodesta lacked a true 5th starter, and had to plug in his AAAA guy (that Erickson even merits that distinction is a dubious claim) before the season began instead of as a stopgap when one guy became unusable for any number of reasons.
2006-05-08 15:13:42
106.   bhsportsguy
This is a recent response from Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus to me regarding Luke Hochevar and Willie Aybar:

"They're not touching Hochevar -- no way, no how. There's been some buzz, really in that Aybar is doing what people thought he would last year. Las Vegas is a paradise for hitters, and Aybar just doesn't really fit at any retreat."

From I have read in the past, Goldstein's opinions are based on conversations with scouts or organizational people, I believe he has a good relationship with Logan White, not sure what he meant by the word "retreat" but I believe what he is saying is that Aybar's stock hasn't change from last year.

2006-05-08 15:17:55
107.   thinkblue0
I'm really shocked when people say they wouldn't give up Guzman for Cabrera. I'm all about keeping prospects, but Cabrera is 22 and a top ten hitter in baseball that can only get better. Can you imagine our lineup if we slipped him in there? In a couple years have an OF of Drew, Kemp, Cabrera...I'd take that in a heartbeat.

Now, if we were talking about someone like Edmonds then I'd agree we shouldn't trade our guys for someone who is on his last legs. But Cabrera is a once in a lifetime type player. Look at his numbers...there aren't many better than him...he's almost Pujols and Arod level.

I'd be more than wlling to ship Guzman and maybe a couple other prospects not named Billingsley for Cabrera. Not to mention, the protection in the lineup would only give Kent better pitches to hit.

2006-05-08 15:20:21
108.   Underbruin
104 - With my last post having been said... A couple of "decent starters who can come up" depends greatly on your definition of decent. It's not like pitchers grow on trees - would I like to have 2 guys in the minors who can just drop in and post a sub-5.00 ERA? Sure. I'd also like a million dollars. And lunch. Can't forget lunch.

The point is that what the Dodgers did have is a couple of prospects who weren't ready to pitch at a major league level, and a couple of older players (Alvarez and Dessens, and I really do think that Houlton's location on the 25-man doesn't discount him either) who were on the decline of their careers. That's pretty much what AAAA pitchers are - and its not as if we didn't get what we expected.

Dessens had 7 spot starts and pitched reasonably well all season (3.56 ERA with a majority of his innings coming in relief, admittedly). Houlton pitched just over that 5.00-ERA mark I mentioned, and Alvarez a bit worse (closer to 6 than 5), but that's about what one would expect from AAAA guys.

2006-05-08 15:22:00
109.   Xeifrank
Getting caught up on a weekend of missed sporting events. Couple of comments.
1. On paper the Clippers are going to be a whole lot tougher for the Suns than the Laker team that had them by the jugular at 3-1.
2. Interesting that Kobe only took something like 3 shots in the 2nd half. Makes you wonder. hmmm!
3. Glad to see our top pitching prospect Aaron Sele finally called up. :)
4. Way to go Ducks. Would love to see a SoCal vs NoCal conference finals matchup.
5. Farmar and Afflalo going pro? I could see Farmar going late in the first round, but Afflalo will never see anything other than the pine in the NBA. Wish them the best of luck, niether will probably be missed given what is backing them up.
vr, Xei
2006-05-08 15:30:33
110.   oldbear
I wouldnt carry any scrap heap AAAA starters because there's no upside. They most likely arent good enough to help you in the current year, and arent anything to build on for the future either.

Dsfan brings up the Padres and I bet he's specifically thinking of Pedro Astacio.

But if you're depending on an Astacio, Sele, Erickson, Mahomes to get you into the playoffs, chances are your team doesnt have much of a shot in the first place.

Going into a season, you want a couple of decent starters

I dont think anyone would classify Erickson, Sele, Pedro Astacio, Jose Lima, Rick Helling or Mahomes as 'decent' starters based on their past histories and stage of their careers.

2006-05-08 15:33:52
111.   thinkblue0

I disagree to the extent that you might be able to get a couple quality starts out of them when you need it. Surprisingly, we got one out of Sele yesterday. Obviously, that isn't indicative of his usual performace but I'll take it.

If Sele can be even remotely stable to bridge the gap until Bills is ready then I consider it a success. A couple of decent starts here and there and I'll consider his contract money well spent. But, you're right, if you're counting on guys like Sele for the long haul then your team is in trouble...

2006-05-08 15:42:20
112.   Eric L
111 I think getting a couple of good starts out of scrap heap guys is more a function of luck than anything.
2006-05-08 15:44:33
113.   Xeifrank
if scrap heap AAAA starters are your only option then you have to carry one or have one waiting in the wings at AAA. I would think that almost every team has one or has one or more at AAA to be used as nothing more than insurance IABCS. When it comes to atheletes even the best plans of putting together a pitching staff (including AAA pitchers) can fall to pieces given an unfavorable set of injuries. Last years injuries got to the point to where it was almost comical. Nothing wrong with carrying a AAAA starter or two in the minors just as insurance. Now if you are starting one because you weren't able to sign any decent pitchers or your minor league system is bare, then your GM planning over the past 1-2 years has been poor. vr, Xei
2006-05-08 15:45:36
114.   thinkblue0

True, I completely agree. It's like catching lightning in a bottle. Yesterday we got lucky, hopefully when Sele starts again we just happen to get lucky.

Right now, I kinda hope Odalis is on the outs and Bills is brought up in the near future. I'm just sick of the drama with Odalis all the time. If we could ditch him for Duaner Sanchez I'd be ecstatic (although I know that won't happen).

2006-05-08 15:52:07
115.   Jon Weisman
I'm amused by the "wouldn't it be great if we could get Duaner Sanchez (although I know that won't happen)" remarks, because I think about 10 different people have made them in the past week. It's sort of like, "wouldn't it be nice if I found a truckload of free money (though I know that won't happen."

In two years, though, Duaner Sanchez will probably follow the Guillermo Mota path to relative irrelevancy - and then your wishes may well come true.

2006-05-08 15:58:15
116.   King of the Hobos
The Royals DFA'd Joe Mays, which surprises me considering how they handled Lima. Let's just hope Flanders is satisfied with Sele.
2006-05-08 15:59:35
117.   Ladderkite
107 - Again, I stick by the company line coming out of florida, that they won't trade Dontrelle or Cabrera. However, since we're playing bizzarro trade games, I'll indulge. If Cabrera came available, it's reasonably safe to assume the dodgers wouldn't be the only ones in the hunt. Furthermore, Florida is a team that wants nothing to do with salaries with two commas. So that leaves us with the inevitability of trading our good, cheap prospects. I believe that the cost might be too high and competition too strong for Cabrera.

Milledge however is on a team with deep pockets and position needs that we could fill. I contend that they can make a better trade partner because of their ability to absorb salaries that florida cannot. Salaries such as Kent, Izturis, Odalis, Ledee, etc. And it's not outside the realm of possibility that Milledge is a 300-30-100 kind of player. So Let's keep Joel and push for Milledge.

2006-05-08 16:00:04
118.   thinkblue0

I think the reason we're getting thsoe comments is because Duaner is dominating, our pen is trash, and almost everyone is sick of Odalis. It fills the neeeds...we upgrade our pen, ditch our biggest headcase AND save money in the process. Sure it's a pipe dream, but I guess it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

You're right, Duaner will probably fall off the map a bit which is why I don't like trading for relievers. But in the cases of Perez and Izzy I'd be more than willing to trade them for relievers to upgrade our pen and to save money that can be used at the trade deadline.

2006-05-08 16:00:08
119.   MartinBillingsley31
I just don't see anything in return for perez, maybe a low level prospect but that will cost us some money for perez salary, so why bother.
Perez is nothing to brag about, to me sele is a slight downgrade to perez, and he will only be buying time for billingsley.
Bottom line is the mets are expected to challenge for the world series, they won't give up anything that they need this season to us.
Our options to me are:
1)Perez and some money to pay for his salary for a low level prospect.
2)Perez straight up with no return and the mets eat all of his salary.
3)Ned gets creative and adds others and money to perez for a top prospect.

My opinion is ned should just get rid of perez and all of his salary.

2006-05-08 16:00:56
120.   Eric L
117 I can't see any trade that involves Cabrera and the Dodgers that doesn't start with Bills as the starting point.
2006-05-08 16:03:41
121.   Jon Weisman
118 - How is getting Sanchez right now not completely out of the realm of possibility?
2006-05-08 16:04:16
122.   Eric L
120 I should add to my own post that it wasn't in response to your's per se. It was more off an addition to the post (more or less).
2006-05-08 16:04:30
123.   thinkblue0

yeah im not against trying to acquire milledge, just prefer Cabrera for obvious reasons. The thing is, I actually don't think it's a fantasy for us to nab Cabrera. The Dodgers are one of the few teams that have the chips to be able to really go out and get him.

This whole thing is just a tough situation. Because we know Odalis can be a good pitcher but he's such a headcase and so inconsistent that he needs to go. Yet, his salary makes it hard to deal. If someone would take on his contract I'd be willing to take a low level prospect back just so we can use the savings on someone else. But, I don't know if that can or will happen. At this point, I just don't see us having a chance on Milledge because if they deal him they're going to get zito in return...and everyone will take Zito over Perez.

2006-05-08 16:04:49
124.   regfairfield
119 Look at their perhiprials. Sele isn't anywhere near Odalis.
2006-05-08 16:06:10
125.   thinkblue0

how is it out of the realm of possiblity. I'm saying it probably won't happen...but that doesn't mean that it COULD happen. Of course anything COULD happen, but the idea of Sanchez coming back isn't THAT least it's not in my view.

2006-05-08 16:06:44
126.   thinkblue0
ugh...i meant COULDN'T happen.
2006-05-08 16:08:55
127.   Ladderkite
120 - Exactly

123 - "the chips" you are referring to are the prospects we have been ardently protecting for years. And I don't want to trade Pedro away again. Of course Zito over Odalis, but Zito versus Odalis AND Navrro AND Kent (or whomever) is a proposal worth working on.

2006-05-08 16:09:38
128.   dsfan
Old Bear,

Just because most scrap-heap guys stink doesn't mean that you can't glean value from some of the them. Some of it's luck. But some of it's evaluation and smart timing.

Nor do I buy that it's OK -- when you're a franchise with these resources competing in a bad division -- to stink just because a player is a prospect and you're "finding out" about him. Only bad came from the EJ experiment last year.

Smart clubs create optimal opportunities for their young players. You try to bring him up when he's ready, perhaps against a more malleable opponent.

That's what's appealing about what they're trying to do with Billingsley. Yes, he could have come up last year. Probably would've been a mistake. Can I prove that? No, but his fastball accuracy was so-so and he didn't trust his changeup.

Maybe if the LAD had better 4A-plus veterans to summon in 2003, EJ wouldn't have been mishandled so badly.

2006-05-08 16:10:42
129.   thinkblue0

again, I don't want to trade prospects either...but how could you not in a case like Cabrera? We're not talking about Delino Deshields here...we're talking about someone who is already one of the best hitters in the game and will continue to be. What are the chances someone like Guzman produces like Cabrera? About one in a million. I like Guzman and don't want to deal him either, but if it means getting a top 5 or 10 guy that is also extremely young then you have to pull the trigger.

2006-05-08 16:11:55
130.   MartinBillingsley31

What i meant, was right now for a short term.
Right now perez has got his head up his @$$(sorry jon, i couldn't explain it without using that), meanwhile sele is out to prove something.
So for a short term thing until billingsley is called up, i see a slight downgrade with sele vs perez.

2006-05-08 16:14:30
131.   Jon Weisman
125/126 - I think you know what I mean. Yes, we could trade give away the farm for Sanchez - but is that something you want to dream about?
2006-05-08 16:15:12
132.   blue22
127 - Of course Zito over Odalis, but Zito versus Odalis AND Navrro AND Kent (or whomever) is a proposal worth working on.

I'm not sure I understand what this means, but I don't think Beane is interested in Odalis, probably not in Kent, and definitely neither for Zito.

Zito is going to require a top prospect, not expensive and declining veterans.

129 - What are the chances someone like Guzman produces like Cabrera? About one in a million.

I would think the odds are better than that, right? Maybe 1 in 20. They are fairly close to being similar talents. Cabrera has just fulfilled his potential.

2006-05-08 16:18:41
133.   natepurcell
it seems the jax suns video webcame is working.
2006-05-08 16:18:43
134.   thinkblue0

no, not at all. But if the opportunity of Odalis for Sanchez every were to arise I'd jump on it for a few reasons. #1 our bullpen is atrocious #2 we could save a lot of money that could be helpful elsewhere and #3 I'm sick of Perez and his antics.

I'm not about giving the farm system up, and I hope I don't come off that way. I'm just as adamant about not dealing them as anyone else. All I'm saying is that if you have the chance to get someone like a Miguel Cabrera for a couple of prospects then it's really, really tough not to pull the trigger.

If a top tier, young player like that isn't in the cards, then I'm more than happy to keep our stocked system. Having an OF in a few years of Drew, Kemp, and Guzman isn't a bad thing.

2006-05-08 16:19:41
135.   natepurcell
just kidding its not.
2006-05-08 16:20:44
136.   Eric L
128 Just looking at the Baseball Cube, the 2003 Vegas squad was full of 4A type of pitchers (the guys were relatively old for AAA guys).

Jackson was probably called up because the org thought that he was the best option at the time. It was probably because of a lack of true talent and not roster fillers (as most AAAA guys are).

2006-05-08 16:20:45
137.   DeucesAreWild
Imagine if your salary was guaranteed for the next two years. If you happened to become distracted, or maybe lose the motivation to do your job well, the downside is obviously mitigated. Would you stay motivated? Part of the answer must be related to whether you are a competitive person by nature.

On the one hand you have Aaron Sele, who has made over $50 million in his career, looking to extend the magic another year for $500K. Clearly he is not (as) motivated by money, and has something to prove. On the other hand you have Odalis with 2 more years left at $8m plus per. The sad thing is that Odalis could essentially take this year off, post a 5+ ERA, and be a desirable free agent prospect again with a focused, solid performance in 2007. And the cycle can be repeated.

I'm of the opinion that some players have it and some don't. By "it" I mean the competive nature needed to convert talent into consistent, dominant performance. Witness Odalis' recent issues, his problems in past years, and his playoff record.

That said, we need to extract the most out of him possible while we are signing his checks. And the only answer, I'm afraid, seems to be coddling him. Sticking him in the pen and instructing him to earn back a starting job isn't the answer. Dodger management needs to tell Odalis that he's still the man, and that we'll do everything possible to get his game back in order. I know he has skill buried there somewhere, and I for one would like to see an effective lefty in the middle of our rotation. Just wish I knew how that talent could be accessed.

2006-05-08 16:23:26
138.   thinkblue0

I would think the odds are better than that, right? Maybe 1 in 20. They are fairly close to being similar talents. Cabrera has just fulfilled his potential.

1-20? No chance. I like Guzman just as much as the next guy, but the chances of him putting up .323 avg, .385 obp., 33HR and 116 RBI are slim. Those are last year's stats for Cabrera by the way. Sure, Guzman has the POTENTIAL to do that, but Cabrera has already done that, and is about the same age.

Of course, if Guzman is up next year and completely dominates I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong. He's got unbelievable power, but I'm a little nervous about a guy who K's as much as he does AND doesn't draw a walk. Right now he's basically Adam Dunn without the OBP.

2006-05-08 16:23:59
139.   dsfan

You are better than I at translating Goldstein's remarks about Willy Aybar.

It seems he's saying Aybar's success is mostly irrelevant because he's doing it in the PCL and that's what was expected of him last year. And Goldstein seems to be attributing this to Dodgers sources.

I'll buy that the LAD aren't keen on Aybar and I'll buy that one should knock 10-15 percent off his current numbers, just because he's in the PCL.

But he's not an old man. He turned 23 two months ago. The breadth of his skill set is impressive. So is his durability. So is his power improvement this year, even when accounting for the PCL.

I've heard he's got some bow-wow in him -- but look at how many games he's played every year -- just an incredible amount for a young minor leaguer, especially if you factor in he plays winter ball. There's definitely some toughness there.

In a smart organization that excels at developing players -- say Atlanta or Oakland -- I think Aybar would be viewed as a solid third-base prospect, not a utility guy.

2006-05-08 16:26:20
140.   Ladderkite
132 - Obviously I wasn't talking about trading odalis and co. to oakland. The Mets....The Mets. Zito VERSUS Odalis and co. in the Mets view (OK?).
2006-05-08 16:27:17
141.   thinkblue0

As he should be. Sure the league he plays in inflates his numbers but he's proven over and over again that he can be at least a solid mlb option. It always amazes me how guys like this slip through the cracks yet guys who have done a lot less get tons of praise.

Everyone is caught up with potential of players rather than what they do. Sometimes it's warranted, but after years if a guy hasn't reached his potential then there's a good chance he probably won't.

2006-05-08 16:28:18
142.   bhsportsguy
Just some facts re bringing up Chad:
King Felix 1-4 2.5K/BB 5.40 ERA .297BA against
Matt Cain 1-4 2K/BB 6.74 ERA .274 BA against
Justin Verlander 3-3 2K/BB 3.68 ERA .234 BA against

Interestingly, while both Felix and Matt have had reversals the second time through, Verlander has improved (though a 2 game sample is pretty small to companre to what Felix and Matt did in 2005).

Also, Detroit (and I can't believe I am typing this) has played better than Seattle and San Francisco thus far.

My point is there are reasons why you want to see how a player during their development will handle some rough times, my hunch is that the Dodgers would like to see Chad deal with them in Vegas than up in LA.

I do think that the opposite is true in position players, in reading some comments Mike Scisocia made about Casey Kotchman's struggles, once a player makes the bigs, you have to see how they progress in building a career. We all know that slumps are a part of a ballplayers lot, but that is when he can show management how he works through it, while not affecting other parts of his game.

But one slumping player does not usually hurt a ball club but an every fifth day starter that gets shelled will stifle that team's chance to make the post season.

2006-05-08 16:31:19
143.   bhsportsguy
139 - I'm not totally shutting the door on Aybar but if he continues to hit like that, it would not surprise me to see him as a throw-in some type of mid-season deal.

Again being out of options and the Dodgers do have add more minor leaguers to the 40 man roster after this season makes him a prime candidate.

2006-05-08 16:31:24
144.   natepurcell
Right now he's basically Adam Dunn without the OBP.

so willy mo pena?

anyways, the columbus team is absolutely raking. That team is just pounding everyone offensively.

The player i am most intrigued by is our second round pick from the 05 draft, SS Ivan De Jesus out of PR. It looks like he can hit.

current line:
86AB 4doubles 1triple 1hr 12bb 13k

pretty intriging for a 19 yr old.

2006-05-08 16:32:22
145.   Jon Weisman
134 - "if the opportunity of Odalis for Sanchez every were to arise "

My point is that it won't arise - it just won't - unless there is a pretty major reversal of fortunes. The Mets could conceivably trade a reliever for Odalis, but it won't be the reliever with the 0.00 ERA, and it certainly won't be without the Dodgers paying most of Perez's salary.

As for Miguel Cabrera, that has nothing to do with what you and I have been talking about - so I don't understand why that's coming into your debate with me as an "all I'm saying."

Here's all I'm saying: Sanchez is not on the Mets' trading block unless a team makes a ridiculously generous offer. Anything involving Odalis Perez and his $21 million or so that he is owed does not qualify.

2006-05-08 16:35:38
146.   blue22
140 - I gotcha now. Wasn't sure at the time. :-)
2006-05-08 16:35:40
147.   tennessee pete
2006-05-08 16:36:46
148.   thinkblue0

That's fine. It's a pipe dream, but it doesn't mean I can't at least hope. Also, we don't know what Minaya is and isn't willing to do. Most GM's would laugh the offer off....but Minaya has already been a little shady in some of his moves. Heck, weirder things have happened, the Mets dealt Kazmir for Zambrano. I know that wasn't Minaya, but still.

As far as Cabrera not being part of our asked if I sit around and dream about dealing prospects for Duaner Sanchez. To clarify, I said no. The reason I brought up Cabrera is to say that I don't dream about ruining the farm and the only way I'd deal top notch prospects is for a guy like Cabrera.

2006-05-08 16:39:06
149.   Gen3Blue
We don't need any trade that involves Billingsley. From what I can see the organization's pitching is pretty thin beyond him. At least no ones arm has heated up yet this year. We don't need to trade for position players--that would be idiotic at this point.
2006-05-08 16:40:18
150.   thinkblue0

Even for a LF? that's the one position I wouldn't mind an upgrade.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-05-08 16:43:15
151.   Ladderkite
150 - NO!
2006-05-08 16:51:36
152.   thinkblue0
For those stat heads out there, check this out:

I'm in a keeper fantasy league. Up until about last week the same guy was leading the league in HR and RBI. He had 51 HR and 204 RBI with a team AVG of .290. Meanwhile I had 48 HR, an avg of .311 yet had FORTY less RBI. Weird anomaly. I guess I can thank Adam Dunn and his solo HR's!

2006-05-08 16:51:58
153.   ToyCannon
Not to mention that Aybar has already shown success at the major league level. I don't think the Dodgers have given up on him. If so they wouldn't be gettting him full time at bats in Vegas he would have been brought up already to languish on the bench. He's younger then Ethier, plays the infield and was outhitting him at AAA this year.

Sanchez is to important to the Mets for them to trade right now because of Wagners balky elbow but they have other middle relief pitchers that would fill the bill for this team. Sele should command very little but since Heath Bell is just wasting his talent at AAA I think a Sele for Bell trade would work for both teams. Sele did great in his emergency start but he only got it because Billingsly wouldn't have been pitching on his schedule.

I think if you look at Sele's career you will see a pitcher who's April numbers are probably better then any other month. That is just from memory and I could be wrong but I've followed his career since he came up and that is what is stuck in my memory banks.

2006-05-08 16:54:10
154.   Jon Weisman
Birthday present for Steve?

2006-05-08 16:54:57
155.   blue22
144 - nate, c'mon...Guzman is better than Wily Mo. He might not be Dunn, but he's better than Pena.
2006-05-08 16:55:12
156.   Fallout
Sometimes a bust with a big contract gets traded for another bust with a big contract.
Think more like Chan Ho Park.
2006-05-08 16:56:17
157.   blue22
156 - Odalis + $ for Cliff Floyd.

Odalis for Cliff Floyd and Jorge Julio.

Busts all around!

2006-05-08 16:57:15
158.   oldbear
Lofton, Mueller, and Tomko sustaining season ending injuries would be addition by subtraction.

Repko/Ethier would play more.
Aybar would be playing 3rd.
Billingsley would be up.

Of course, the fact that 13 mils was spent on Lofton, Mueller, and Tomko is another issue altogether.

2006-05-08 17:00:40
159.   oldbear
I'm not endorsing those injuries because I'm sure if they occurred, management would blame those injuries to non impact players for a poor season. Nothing would be learned and there's no guarantee Aybar, Ethier, or Billz would be playing.
2006-05-08 17:04:34
160.   Steve
Nothing to see in the Toronto/Angels game. Again. Nothing whatever.
2006-05-08 17:08:27
161.   Steve
Weaver's found his groove.
2006-05-08 17:10:32
162.   Xeifrank
160. Yeah, I see Weaver's pitching a 2-hitter. :) vr, Xei
2006-05-08 17:11:33
163.   blue22
160 - Is there a ban on jinxing "those special types of games" in here?
2006-05-08 17:12:25
164.   bhsportsguy
Classic Weaver, great for 5 innings, blows up in one.
2006-05-08 17:13:21
165.   bhsportsguy
But to be fair, the Angels might be worst offensive team 100MM can buy (at least in the AL)
2006-05-08 17:13:57
166.   Steve
Weaver is more transparent than saran wrap. And here comes the slack-jaw about Weaver's "mental toughness." Nothing likely about his 83 mph fastball.
2006-05-08 17:14:21
167.   Jon Weisman
163 - Emphatically.
2006-05-08 17:16:30
168.   thinkblue0
Rios has two more HR than Arod this year. Bizarre.
2006-05-08 17:16:48
169.   blue22
167 - Noted. Thanks.
2006-05-08 17:17:42
170.   Steve
Sorry for jinxing Jeff Weaver's no-hit opportunity. Please charge those five runs to my ERA.
2006-05-08 17:18:12
171.   Xeifrank
Only 155 more HRs for Bonds to tie the record. vr, Xei
2006-05-08 17:18:36
172.   bhsportsguy
You mean there is something special about Weaver giving up 5 runs and 2 bombs in one inning? :)
2006-05-08 17:19:09
173.   bhsportsguy
Now about the other guy pitching in that game....
2006-05-08 17:19:18
174.   Xeifrank
170. No biggie. Usually Weaver loses his no-hit bid about half way through his bullpen warmup session. vr, Xei
2006-05-08 17:20:09
175.   Xeifrank
What are the pitching matchups for the Houston series? vr, Xei
2006-05-08 17:20:23
176.   Humma Kavula
2006-05-08 17:20:59
177.   blue22
173 - Steve jinx'd get the credit/blame for Halladay.
2006-05-08 17:22:45
178.   Jon Weisman
170 - You were within the bounds of acceptibility.
2006-05-08 17:23:03
179.   natepurcell
2 draft picks for weaver makes me smile.
2006-05-08 17:24:53
180.   Humma Kavula
Jason Marquis is having a "special kind of game," too -- as long as by "special kind of game" you mean the kind where a pitcher's control completely fails him as he hits two batters and allows two runs in the top of the first.
2006-05-08 17:25:10
181.   Fallout
You were within the bounds of acceptibility

You must grade on the curve.

2006-05-08 17:27:52
182.   Jon Weisman
It's pretty simple. Unless you are one of that game's radio or TV announcers, you aren't allowed to say the word "no-hitter" to describe a no-hitter in progress, as in "Joe Beimel has a no-hitter going." That's all.
2006-05-08 17:28:05
183.   ToyCannon
It is May 8th, nothing bizarre about it. If it was Aug 8th then it would be bizarre.

Jon have you discussed why we can't talk about no hitters here? Can you link me to your archive where you discussed it. It just seems so strange that you'd put a ban on talking about something we have no physical relationship with that I'd like to see your reasoning behind it.

2006-05-08 17:30:38
184.   Andrew Shimmin
182- On my honor as a gentleman, I swear I will never say, write, or think the words, "Joe Beimel has a no-hitter going." Starting now.
2006-05-08 17:32:26
185.   Humma Kavula
182 What about variations on the phrase, like "The Angels are still looking for their first hit in the top of the 7th," or "Joe Beimel has yet to allow a Giant baserunner today."

Just want to stay within the bounds of propriety.

2006-05-08 17:33:50
186.   Sam DC
I'm happy for a policy moment too -- comments that may lead folks to check into a special game are OK, so long as they don't make any direct jinxworthy references. Over?
2006-05-08 17:34:20
187.   Jon Weisman
183 -

If my "ban on talking about something we have no physical relationship with" isn't self-explanatory, then I probably can't explain it.

2006-05-08 17:34:29
188.   Sam DC
As I see things, 185 clearly goes too far. Over?
2006-05-08 17:34:38
189.   Andrew Shimmin
It's tough to believe that all the Sele love here is genuine. Really? He threw one game and now we're promoting him to third starter? OP may not be much, but if he's not better than Sele, everything I know about the world is a lie. I'm going to have to join one of them doomsday cults. And grow a beard, probably.

Do you have a few minutes? I'd like to tell you about The Leader, and his plan for you. . .

2006-05-08 17:35:27
190.   Jon Weisman
One thing with the Angels is that if a no-hitter is going, it's got a real good chance of being a perfect game.
2006-05-08 17:37:07
191.   oldbear
Come on Andrew.
You arent impressed with Sele's 2K's in 6.2 ip?
2006-05-08 17:37:08
192.   Vishal
if there's a no-hitter/perfect game going, i'd think someone should be able to point it out discreetly without it being considered a "jinx". i mean, if you say "hey, so-and-so has a perfect game after 7!!!", then that's a total jinx. but "that angels/blue jays game is rather interesting" is not a jinx.
2006-05-08 17:37:48
193.   Jon Weisman
I think 185 violates the spirit of the rule, maybe not the letter. In any case, I think it's preferable to dance around the relevant words.
2006-05-08 17:38:08
194.   Jon Weisman
192 - Right.
2006-05-08 17:38:58
195.   Jon Weisman
187 The comments in that thread are pretty funny to re-read.
2006-05-08 17:39:05
196.   Fallout
You cannot be serious.
2006-05-08 17:41:44
197.   ToyCannon
I haven't seen anyone promoting Sele to 3rd stater. Seems like everyone was happy with the start and don't expect continued success. If he was to replace OP I think he would become the 5th starter and everyone else moves up a slot, don't you.

Thanks for taking the time to post the archive. I'll take a gander.

2006-05-08 17:45:31
198.   Curtis Lowe
Just thought I'd chime in to vent a little about ESPN not showing any love for Martin's first homerun last night on sportscenter. They mention Nomar, Olmedo and Furcal but don't make any mention of Martin. Also why the heck weren't any of Nomars first base acrobatics in the top 10? Bond's homerun made the number 1, he's already hit 712 why does 1 more make it to the number 1 of the top 10? ESPN should go the way of the dodo.
2006-05-08 17:47:21
199.   thinkblue0
can the dodgers go the entire season only making left turns on the basepaths?
2006-05-08 17:51:06
200.   Andrew Shimmin
197- It doesn't make a lot of difference where he specifically gets put in the rotation, giving him OP's spot is objectively giving him OP's spot. I'm happy he threw one good game, too. If the point is a tear down, reconstruction for next year, then fine, ditch OP for Sele. But if that's not the point (which it certainly isn't the stated one, in any of the above) then what is?

It's a crummy month the Dodgers had, no getting around that. But we can't just throw our hats in every time Plan A doesn't go as well as was hoped. This is not an awful team, the bullpen isn't that bad. And playing Hot Hand theory with the rotation is not a recipe for success.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-05-08 17:53:35
201.   natepurcell
kemp hits a grand slam off anibal sanchez. niceee.
2006-05-08 17:54:08
202.   natepurcell
and it looks like Orenduff is hurt, he left the game after an inning.
2006-05-08 17:54:14
203.   thinkblue0
I just had a thought: a broadcast with mccarver, morgan, and hudler....oh man, that might literally kill me.
2006-05-08 17:55:28
204.   Andrew Shimmin
200- Actually, I'm also going to back off my sweeping generalization in 189. There are isolated incidents of Sele overestimation, but it's not wide spread, and I shouldn't have permitted the inference that I thought otherwise.
2006-05-08 17:59:58
205.   Andrew Shimmin
The cult thing, though, I'm totally serious about. Anybody have cult leads? I'd prefer one without the whole child abuse thing, or weird clothes, but the latter isn't a deal breaker.
2006-05-08 18:00:59
206.   natepurcell
a "soaring homerun" for ruggiano. Sanchez is getting knocked around.

and Heather Jones wins free burritos for a year from cordova mexican grill courtesy of ruggiano.

2006-05-08 18:03:48
207.   trainwreck
"Jinxing" no hitters and all that is beyond absurd to me.

I really hope we can trade Odalis Perez. I think his contract is going to become a burden to us... even more so.

2006-05-08 18:04:43
208.   oldbear
Hopefully Heather Jones is a mother with a large family.
2006-05-08 18:14:32
210.   Vishal
wow. check out the batting averages of colorado hitters 1-6:


2006-05-08 18:17:45
211.   trainwreck
I think the A's should trade Zito to the Mets if they can get Milledge and Heilman. They know they can get Milledge, but getting Heilman is the key, so they have someone to replace Zito.

I know Minaya loves Baez. Odalis, Baez and Guzman for Milledge!

2006-05-08 18:20:58
212.   Vishal
[211] i don't think the mets would give them BOTH up for zito.
2006-05-08 18:23:38
213.   trainwreck
I can't put anything paste Minaya. Remember what he gave up for Bartolo Colon, when he was the GM of the Expos?
2006-05-08 18:23:51
214.   trainwreck
2006-05-08 18:27:57
215.   Andrew Shimmin
209- That's got to be the third of fourth time a link to that photo posted here. I still don't get what it proves.
2006-05-08 18:28:36
216.   Vishal
if beane asked for heilman and milledge and minaya was okay with that, the deal would've been done already.
2006-05-08 18:29:02
217.   natepurcell
aybar is again not playing in the 51s game today.

but the 51s score 4 in the first.
young singles, guzman and loney both walked.

2006-05-08 18:29:07
218.   Andrew Shimmin
215- that photo has been posted. . .

Are we supposed to be surprised that he really isn't a bear?

2006-05-08 18:30:22
219.   thinkblue0

from all reports, beane hasn't asked for anything yet. It's all just speculation...although I do think Beane will somehow fleece the mets here like he did the Cards.

2006-05-08 18:32:51
220.   trainwreck
I do not think Beane wants to trade Zito yet, because he wants to contend for sure this year. Closer to the deadline and Minaya starts proposing his own deals, things could change. The Mets only have a couple players they can even trade, so they are not goin to go after some mediocre player offering Milledge.
2006-05-08 18:33:50
221.   Sam DC
Rockies 5-0 over St. Louis. What's wrong with the world?
2006-05-08 18:35:37
222.   still bevens
198 You saw Dodger's highlights on ESPN? For real? I have bad cable at the hotel Im currently living in and Im forced to watch ESPN. You'd be hard pressed to see some Dodger's highlights anytime.
2006-05-08 18:36:32
223.   ToyCannon
The A's are going to be playing for the World Series, does anyone really think they will trade Zito during the season? Has Beane ever moved one of his key players who was going to be a FA during the season(Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Mulder)? The answer is no. Unless the A's drop out of the pennant race which is highly improbable, Zito will be staying put.
2006-05-08 18:39:00
224.   trainwreck
He would only do it if it is too good to pass up and it helps them in the now and later, which Milledge and Heilman would do.
2006-05-08 18:41:03
225.   Curtis Lowe
Steve Martin's movie Shopgirl is the Lance Carter of Steve Martin movies.
2006-05-08 18:41:33
226.   natepurcell
when can we promote kemp to AAA?
2006-05-08 18:42:23
227.   trainwreck
Have not seen it, but I heard it was good and he does a good job. But come on, Steve Martin has made some bad movies. Heck, just look at his most recent films.
2006-05-08 18:43:14
228.   natepurcell
runners at the corners, 1 out, big bopper kemp up at the plate.
2006-05-08 18:44:59
229.   Fallout
209 bhb

No wonder he doesn't know what he talking about. 158 He looks like DePodesta without glasses. (if that is really him)

2006-05-08 18:46:07
230.   natepurcell
infield single, line drive gb off the glove of the 3b.

3-4 in the game lol.

2006-05-08 18:46:40
231.   Jon Weisman
225 - No way.

Cheaper by the Dozen(s).

2006-05-08 18:46:56
232.   trainwreck
This is not the dodgers board, please quit all the oldbear bs. People left that board to get away from that garbage.
2006-05-08 18:49:57
233.   trainwreck
The Out-Of-Towners, Looney Toons:Back In Action, Pink Panther, the aforementioned Cheaper by the Dozen movies.
2006-05-08 18:50:51
234.   caseybarker
Steve Martin is the Lance Carter of comedians.
2006-05-08 18:53:01
235.   trainwreck
Who is the worst pitcher in baseball? I need someone to compare to Carlos Mencia.
2006-05-08 18:55:30
236.   caseybarker
Carlos Mencia is the Pedro Martinez of comedy... not afraid to throw high and inside.
2006-05-08 18:57:04
237.   Uncle Miltie
235- Terry Mulholland, but is there a worse comedian than Robin Williams? I've actually heard Mencia say something funny before.

And don't forget Owen Wilson

2006-05-08 18:57:07
238.   trainwreck
Carlos Mencia is the Larry the Cable Guy of comedy.
2006-05-08 19:00:10
239.   natepurcell
vero beach is getting pounded, 19-7 in the bottom of the 8th.
2006-05-08 19:00:26
240.   caseybarker
Mulholland's had a no-hitter.
2006-05-08 19:04:01
241.   natepurcell
ruggiano goes yard again. nice.
2006-05-08 19:04:10
242.   Jon Weisman
234 - What is going on here? That is so wrong.
2006-05-08 19:04:52
243.   natepurcell
its funny, we went from having no outfield prospect depth to now having an overflow:
2006-05-08 19:11:35
244.   caseybarker
Is Werth ever coming back? It would be worthwhile for next year to see if he could play like he did in 2004.
2006-05-08 19:12:09
245.   natepurcell
from goldstein at BP:

Meanwhile in front of a ton of heat--including Tampa Bay's Andrew Friedman, Pittsburgh's Dave Littlefield and the Dodgers' Logan White--Stanford's Greg Reynolds outdeuled California's Brandon Morrow. Reynolds went the distance in the 3-2 win, but he also threw 140 pitches.

logan white looking at college prospects!?!?! hell is freezing over.

2006-05-08 19:16:55
246.   trainwreck
Didn't we draft more college players last year?
2006-05-08 19:18:10
247.   natepurcell
well morrow and reynolds are first round type prospects. And white usually goes prep with his first picks.
2006-05-08 19:20:43
248.   caseybarker
Tim Lincecum looked pretty darn good on Friday. I think he struck out 16 against Oregon State. Will he go to high for the Dodgers?
2006-05-08 19:21:19
249.   natepurcell
vero beach is fighting back with a 5 spot in the 8th. 19-12 now.
2006-05-08 19:22:28
250.   natepurcell

linecum is a top 3 pick, most likely #1 to the royals if they go for signability over Andrew Miller. Linecum's being tabbed the most ready prospect in the draft. Meaning, some teams envision him being up in the bigs by september.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-05-08 19:24:54
251.   caseybarker
It seems that he came out of nowhere since the beginning of last year.
2006-05-08 19:26:20
252.   ToyCannon
Agreed, when you make a bunch of movies some are going to be bad but for the most part you can't go wrong with a Steve Martin movie, but it is a matter of taste.
2006-05-08 19:26:25
253.   natepurcell
darn, kemp just missed another homer. drove a shot to right field but caught at the wall.
2006-05-08 19:29:48
254.   oldbear
Jon, why do you allow comments like 209 and 229 to remain on the blog with an IP banning? It really tears down the credibility of your site to keep letting the riff-raff on it.
2006-05-08 19:32:36
255.   Curtis Lowe
Steve Martin was funny.
Chevy Chase was more funny.

Shopgirl was not funny or interesting.

If Chevy Chase directs a movie it will be funny and interesting.

Fletch lives...

2006-05-08 19:37:21
256.   oldbear
bhb is the same troll that two nites ago cursed about Brad Penny. Probably the same person that posts under goat, marvin, etc...Where is the IP ban for that?

Nobody wants it here. Yet, you've done nothing about it.

2006-05-08 19:39:14
257.   Andrew Shimmin
255- That's crazy talk. Extrapolating from that, I can say you must look like Paul DePodesta (with or without glasses).

254- Don't make it hard to defend you.

2006-05-08 19:45:55
258.   Curtis Lowe
257- I agree and I resent that.


I think Ken is the one to talk to about IP banning and IP banning wont really stop a troll . Dynamic IP's are easy to create and changing your IP is simple. I understand the harassment is getting out of hand but there really isn't too much that can be done.

2006-05-08 19:46:18
259.   trainwreck
Anyone here a Louis CK fan?
2006-05-08 19:48:10
260.   Curtis Lowe
257- Did you like Shopgirl? The last Steve Martin movie I thought was entertaining was Novacaine. I thank the comedy gods everyday that Bill Murry and Chevy Chase have not resorted to the lows of Steve.
2006-05-08 19:48:24
261.   Bob Timmermann
The Rockies are now winning at a .606 clip.
2006-05-08 19:49:49
262.   trainwreck
Chevy Chase? Where have u been the last 15 years?
2006-05-08 19:50:29
263.   Bob Timmermann
The Royals announcers are eagerly awaiting the return of Mike MacDougal.

I can't imagine that's going to make a big difference.

2006-05-08 19:51:30
264.   Nick Iyengar
I advocate a mixed approach with regards to OP. For starters, I believe that simply being rid of the headache that is Odalis would be worth $20 million. Thus, if someone would take Odalis, and eat his salary, I think the Dodgers would be gaining something even without getting a single player in return.

However, he has only had six starts, and his mother's health may have been distracting him recently. He claims that it did against STL during the playoffs in 2004, when he put up two abysmal performances. So, like others have said earlier, I think the organization should give him a pat on the back, tell him he's still the man, and send him back out there. I'm not usually one to appease headcases, but in this situation it seems like the best thing to do for the immediate future.

If he continues to post a 6+ ERA into June, you run the risk of making Odalis virtually untradable. However, I think the more likely scenario is that he will pull his ERA down into the high-4 range, especially if Grady Little prevents big innings by having an earlier hook.

If that does turn out to be the case, he could well have more trade value than Kyle Lohse, Scott Elarton, and other names that have been floated as possible SP trade-bait. Then, if the Mets decide that they want OP, I would give him away, as long as the Mets eat the salary.

2006-05-08 19:52:51
265.   trainwreck
It is better to trade a player early then it is to trade them late.
2006-05-08 19:54:27
266.   Curtis Lowe
265- It is also better to not get hit by a car than too get hit by a car.
2006-05-08 19:55:24
267.   trainwreck
I will have to take your word for it.
2006-05-08 19:56:18
268.   Blu2
OldBear, easiest thing to do might be to just change your login name to something else, not even close to 'OldBear'. Don't let anyone you don't personally trust know it's you under a different name. As far as the troll knows, he drove you away cause you don't post here anymore. Maybe he'll leave then...
2006-05-08 19:56:30
269.   Bob Timmermann

Hey, who gave Branch Rickey an account here?

2006-05-08 19:57:49
270.   Andrew Shimmin
260- Haven't seen it, but I liked the book. Chevy Chase has been in three movies that weren't bad (Caddy Shack, Fletch, and Orange County; all good enough, but none great), and too many that were. Roxanne alone puts Steve Martin ahead, but he's also got My Blue Heaven (which is terrific) and Leap of Faith and others that weren't too bad. Oh, Three Amigos was pretty good, but they were both in it, so it cancels out.
2006-05-08 20:02:04
271.   trainwreck
Maybe Billy Beane is Branch Rickey re-incarnated because thats who I stole that line from.
2006-05-08 20:20:02
272.   Curtis Lowe
270- Good point. Although you forgot to mention Dirty Work as one of Chases better smaller roles. Dr. Farthing.


2006-05-08 20:23:02
273.   Jon Weisman
254 - It is hard for me to respond to a comment like that without sarcasm or anger, because I can't begin to tell you how offended I am by it. But I will do my best.

I've been very clear about my policy regarding profanity and personal attacks.

Unfortunately, some people come on the site and do these things under different names. I guarantee you this hurts me more than it hurts you. I have done nothing to these people, and they tear down my site.

I have become more aggressive in banning them, but they sign on different names with different IPs and e-mails. Ken Arneson has been working on the problem, but we are trying to solve it without taking drastic measures that will inconvenience the thousands of people who enjoy the site on the site's terms.

It is a problem. I think I have been earnest and forthright in trying to solve it. I would appreciate it if the people who are attacking me, you or anyone would realize that they are hurting me with their attacks, even though I did nothing to them. The best solution is for everyone to be cool.

2006-05-08 20:27:33
274.   Bob Timmermann
Padres seem to be on their way to consecutive win #9. They're up 6-1 on the Cubs.
2006-05-08 20:33:51
275.   Underbruin
270 - No mention of The Jerk?
2006-05-08 20:36:21
276.   Andrew Shimmin
272- Never saw it.

275- I'm the guy (the only one I know) who didn't like The Jerk. I didn't hate it, but it really never spoke to me.

2006-05-08 20:38:22
277.   das411
Meanwhile Chris Walken is on standby and Alec Baldwin and John Goodman are circling the building...

Hey Bob, any other long winning streaks these days? Or should I ask Mike C?

2006-05-08 20:43:27
278.   King of the Hobos
Carlos Alvarez had a really nice game today. If he can pitch 6 innings and strike out 8 players, then shouldn't the Dodgers allow him to start? His 22/3 K/BB ratio in 21 IP is incredibly good, although the 4 homers aren't nearly as impressive. Still, he'd be far more valuable as a lefty starter
2006-05-08 20:45:08
279.   Uncle Miltie
The Suns can't stop Elton Brand.
2006-05-08 20:45:46
280.   trainwreck
The Clippers can't stop the Suns.
2006-05-08 20:51:38
281.   trainwreck
The Suns can stop the Suns.
2006-05-08 20:52:51
282.   King of the Hobos
Jimmy Rohan pitched an inning today, which I believe makes him the second Dodger organization position player to pitch a game this year. AJ Ellis got in some work in the Jacksonville 14 inning game (2.1 innings of 1 run ball, for the loss)

Also, why are Pedroza, Leach, Bastardo, and Mitchell still at Columbus? All of them are too old for the level, as can be seen by their domination of it. Only Mitchell really has someone blocking him at Vero, so that's not much of an excuse. I suppose it is early, but I want to see them against players that are closer to their age

2006-05-08 20:53:39
283.   Bob Timmermann

San Diego's winning streak gets mentioned because it is going to be the longest ongoing streak...

2006-05-08 20:56:52
284.   Marty
I have to say, the only thing I can think of that I disagree with Jon on is this jinxing no-hitters thing. I've never bought into that and have no problem talking about no-nos while it's in progress.

That said, I will honor his rules.

2006-05-08 20:58:43
285.   underdog
276 I'd worry about you if The Jerk spoke to you...

I was thinking more that Jon Lovitz is the Lance Carter of comedy - a few good moments, followed by much that we'd all rather forget, with a little bit of potential for something decent in the future. Or maybe Jimmy Fallon. Naw, that's really low. Forget I said that.

Meanwhile the Giants just hammered Roy Oswalt in one inning. Sigh. Nothing's going well for the Dodgers tonight. Now we get to play an angry Houston squad.

And the Cubs continue their feckless ways against the Pads.

2006-05-08 21:04:00
286.   caseybarker
I hated the jerk. And Jon Lovitz is the Mike Trombley of comedy. No delivery, no stuff, hard to watch.
2006-05-08 21:05:38
287.   Fallout
oldbear-why are you including me in your proposed ban? 158 you said:
Lofton, Mueller, and Tomko sustaining season ending injuries would be addition by subtraction.

I stongly disagree and so stated while I took a (cheap) shot at DePodesta.

2006-05-08 21:18:49
288.   Steve
And Jon Lovitz is the Mike Trombley of comedy. No delivery, no stuff, hard to watch.

Blasphemy. Plus, everyone knows that D4P is Jon Lovitz, and you're going to hurt his feelings.

2006-05-08 21:18:53
289.   oldbear
What do Lofton, Mueller, and Tomko have to do with DePodesta? He had nothing to do with those players.

If you like those players, why not just defend them? How is attacking someone totally irrelevant/foreign to the discussion help in your defense of Mueller, Lofton, and Tomko? I stated why I think the team would be better off without those players.

This trolling doesnt bother me personally. People come here to discuss topics, not posters. And if Jon or Ken feel like they can live it, so be it. But just in terms of the quality of the site and the people that post, its going to turn some people off to posting if they see a game thread totally cluttered with profane attacks and obsessive posts about certain posters. I think people come here to get away from other messageboards. If you allow certain things, it becomes just like anything else.

The other nite when (marvin, goat, bhb, etc..) started spamming the board, everyone just left. Who wants to put up with that on a consistent basis?

2006-05-08 21:20:30
290.   Blu2
287 Lofton, Mueller, and Tomko have all made contributions to the team already this year and so far have earned their money. Compare their stats with two of the prospects brought up from Las Vegas, Ethier and Loney, throw in Robles, too. So far they have performed better; in the long run, of course, all the advantages go to the kids.
2006-05-08 21:24:22
291.   Blu2
(289) So what about changing your login name? Or do you enjoy the attention? Are you maybe attacking yourself for some perverse pleasure? Just change your name, fer Chris' sakes.
2006-05-08 21:24:56
292.   natepurcell
guzman and tony abreu both working 2 walks each tonight should be headline news for Jon's next post.
2006-05-08 21:26:27
293.   natepurcell
even if he changes his name, the trolls are still going to figure out who he is. And thats because oldbear does have really unique opinions on dodger baseball and the trolls can probably spot that out if they tried.
2006-05-08 21:26:54
294.   trainwreck
Maybe it's the principle of him having to change his name because of others issues.

To borrow a line from Office Space
"Why do I have to change my name, when he's the one that sucks."

2006-05-08 21:29:02
295.   trainwreck
Actually this is the line:

Why should I change? He's the one who sucks.

2006-05-08 21:32:48
296.   Blu2
Then we should just ignore his laments and those who play with him. In my book he doesn't want to end it....
2006-05-08 21:35:33
297.   Andrew Shimmin
287- You took a cheap shot at oldbear. You indicated that his picture was proof he didn't know what he was talking about; instead of taking issue with what he said, you made a crack about his looks. You went on to say that oldbear looks like DePo, which is only a shot at DePo if there's something wrong with the way oldbear looks. Right?

289- Nobody likes the trolls. That's a given. You've made yourself unwelcome at (at least) three Dodger web boards. The Marquis of Queensbury rules are in effect here, but to suddenly don skin so thin that you have to flail at Jon seems, um, out of character.

Change your name or don't, everybody is still going to hate the trolls. But don't cop a 'tude toward our host. It's not his fault that people don't like you, and he's doing as much as is reasonable to protect you from them.

2006-05-08 21:35:51
298.   oldbear
Or do you enjoy the attention?

Actually its an embarrassment.
I'm not the only one included either. Our good friend marvin or goat included Steve in his last attack.

2006-05-08 21:38:17
299.   Sospiro0
Has nobody mentioned "Trains, Planes, and Automobiles"? I'll defend that movie to the death.

"I want a &^%ing car, right &*&%ing now."

2006-05-08 21:42:06
300.   Jon Weisman
Good god, Oldbear, what is the matter with you? Ken and I are two people. We have families, jobs and lives. Do you honestly expect us to monitor the site 24/7? Do you honestly think we don't care about the profanity and attacks? Did you read what I wrote above? As soon as we see the profanity, Ken and I get rid of it.

Yes, I saw someone posted the picture of you and just out of fatigue, I let it go. So shoot me. I've worked my butt off on a 99 percent volunteer basis for over three years to make this site something of a refuge. And this is the thanks I get.

For the future, if you have any problems with how I am handling the site, please e-mail me. In the meantime, it might be nice if you one time showed the slightest bit of appreciation for my efforts.

Your detractors will certainly revel in this exchange between us. I hope you're happy.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-05-08 21:44:07
301.   confucius
I think of all three of those aforementioned players have been good contributers I understand wanting to see a young guy over Lofton, But Mueller and Tomko have been adequate so far. The last thing I want is for Billingsly to become Edwin Jackson.
2006-05-08 21:46:56
302.   Fallout
297 Andrew Shimmin

If you read my post I referred to oldbear's post #158. So, I was of course speeking about what he wrote.
>>>You indicated that his picture was proof he didn't know what he was talking about;<<<

That doesn't even make sense. Not a very good deduction.

2006-05-08 21:47:01
303.   confucius
300. I've never seen any swearing or abuse towards another person on here. So if you've had to delete some bad posts you've done a great job because I never see them.
2006-05-08 21:49:23
304.   Jon Weisman
302 - I read your post the same way as Andrew did. If we're wrong, can you explain to me who is the "he" you are referring to in your sentence, "No wonder he doesn't know what he talking about."
2006-05-08 21:49:46
305.   kegtron
Fasten your seatbelts folks!

Next team to score puts Lawlers Law into effect.

2006-05-08 21:51:37
306.   Sam DC
What I think is important here, and what I've stayed up until 1 in the morning to tell you all, is that L.A. Story was a very good movie.

And Cruel Shoes is brilliance. Lance Carter?

2006-05-08 21:53:01
307.   caseybarker
There are no such things as trolls, there are no such things as trolls, there are no such things as trolls...

John Candy was pretty darn funny, too. I loved Canadian Bacon or whatever that movie was called.

2006-05-08 21:53:54
308.   kegtron
What are the odds Nash misses both FT's? The Clips are doomed.
2006-05-08 21:54:34
309.   Sospiro0
Steve Martin also did a fine job at the Oscars. Problem was nobody in the audience laughed.
2006-05-08 21:55:00
310.   caseybarker
Lance Carter was an all-star once, too.
2006-05-08 21:55:16
311.   natepurcell
hahaha the TNT boys were talking about Lawler's Law.

haha, it has gone national folks!

2006-05-08 21:56:54
312.   Fallout
It meant that he (oldbear) and DePodesta are the same people. Since it is no secrete that I disagreed with the things DePodesta did I also disagreed with oldbear to lose the 3 mentioned players.
2006-05-08 21:57:17
313.   Sam DC
Oh, and the reason I logged on the first place. I get a "word of the day" email which, admittedly, I rarely bother to read. Today's word is "Plashy" which means "Marshy; watery; full of puddles." So, if you ever read, say, a sports opinion column, and it's watery or full of puddles, might be a Plashy.
2006-05-08 21:59:50
314.   Fallout
303 s/b: was speaking
2006-05-08 22:01:20
315.   Andrew Shimmin
312- Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. See, uh, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony's not really a, a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was getting tired of being stared at.
2006-05-08 22:03:46
316.   Andrew Shimmin
Darn. Wrong reference. I meant 313. I can accept 312, and retract my accusation. If what you wrote isn't what you meant, then alright.
2006-05-08 22:05:31
317.   Jon Weisman
312 - It was a gratuitous, personal shot to say "he doesn't know what he's talking about." Criticize the comment, not the commenter.
2006-05-08 22:08:38
318.   Fallout
316 Andrew Shimmin

Wow. You had me wondering what was going on. I wanted to accuse you of something. :)

It's no secret that I cannot type or spell. #312

2006-05-08 22:09:24
319.   Telemachos
So I've skimmed through a lot of the discussion today... has Steve Henson's article (mentioning the Mets as a specific suitor for Odalis) been hashed through?

2006-05-08 22:10:19
320.   Bob Timmermann

That was mostly hashed out from 1-150.

2006-05-08 22:12:46
321.   confucius
Guys, guys, how can you you sit and quarrel on a night when David Blaine has done something so special for the greater good of mankind?
2006-05-08 22:14:21
322.   Bob Timmermann
I remember when NBA games always had scores like this one and they didn't even have a 3-point shot! And we liked it!
2006-05-08 22:16:41
323.   Andrew Shimmin
321- Did he pull it off? Well, there you go. Chris Rock, the Tom Glavine of comedy, warned us about trickless magicians, but we did not heed. . .
2006-05-08 22:18:15
324.   confucius
323. No he didn't do it!! He totally wussed out!
2006-05-08 22:18:47
325.   confucius
322. we loved it!
2006-05-08 22:23:04
326.   Andrew Shimmin
David Blaine's Buble Burst. So saith E!, so saith we all.

2006-05-08 22:23:12
327.   Bob Timmermann
Why is it when Elton Brand sets a Clipper playoff record it doesn't seem like a big deal?
2006-05-08 22:26:26
328.   Telemachos
[320} LOL. Serves me right for getting to the party late.
2006-05-08 22:28:49
329.   Uncle Miltie
Bob, 18-22 shooting is Bill Walton like. I don't know how you can try to minimize his performance.
2006-05-08 22:29:07
330.   Eric L
326 I have no reason whatsoever, but something about David Blaine really bugs me. One of my really good friends enjoys watching his specials, so I hold my tongue, but I sort of think he is a hack.

I have no evidence of his (Blaine's) hackiness. He just bugs me.

2006-05-08 22:30:16
331.   confucius
329. I can minimize it. The suns can't play defense. My grandma shoots 18 of 22 against them.
2006-05-08 22:32:07
332.   confucius
330. He's a total hack. Nothing about him is legitimate.
2006-05-08 22:35:49
333.   natepurcell

explain please. I am not really educated on David Blaine.

2006-05-08 22:38:19
334.   Eric L
329 It isn't minimizing his performance. From the numbers, it looks like he played spectacular.

He might hold the Clippers single game playoff scoring record. You have to admit that the opportunities for past Clippers to set the mark is a rather small sample.

Just to put it in perspective, Jerry West averaged 46.5 points in a 6 game series against Baltimore in 1965. You start talking about setting Clippers playoff records like that, you are in business.

2006-05-08 22:38:19
335.   confucius
He is a run of the mill sidewalk magician who uses trick photography and slight of hand gags.
2006-05-08 22:38:23
336.   Andrew Shimmin
332- Not true! Those are his real teeth. I'll have your retraction, now, if you would.
2006-05-08 22:40:08
337.   confucius
336. :) Prove it!
2006-05-08 22:40:36
338.   capdodger
331 If she can play defense and hit the open three-pointer then maybe the Lakers could use her.
2006-05-08 22:40:41
339.   Eric L
335 I've decided that I'm going to call David Blaine a daredevil that happens to do magic tricks on the side.
2006-05-08 22:41:36
340.   natepurcell
uh oh, from

Orenduff pitched the first inning and walked the first two batters of the second inning before leaving with a sore pitching elbow.

another bites the dust (probably).

2006-05-08 22:42:20
341.   Andrew Shimmin
335- He also sat in a box, suspended by a crane over the Thames, for days on end. He single-handedly (thanks for nothing NEA) made homelessness a performance art.
2006-05-08 22:42:50
342.   confucius
338. If they can afford her.
2006-05-08 22:43:47
343.   King of the Hobos
All this talk about David Blaine and no mention of South Park? That has to be one of my favorite episodes for some reason, and it's probably the only previous time that I've heard of him.
2006-05-08 22:44:05
344.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, Jack Bauer just helped land a jumbo jet on the 118 Freeway. Right by where I grew up.

What can't he do?

2006-05-08 22:44:45
345.   confucius
341. He's so stupid. That's not magic. Staying in the same place for that long is just being a hobo.
2006-05-08 22:46:42
346.   Bob Timmermann

I didn't mean to slight Brand. I meant to slight Clippers playoff records. It's not unlike hitting the most home runs in Devil Rays history. (Aubrey Huff)

2006-05-08 22:47:01
347.   Andrew Shimmin
343- Nobody wanted to tempt Jon's wrath. He doesn't dig South Park Thoughts.
2006-05-08 22:50:39
348.   King of the Hobos
340 What are your thoughts on allowing Carlos Alvarez to replace him? It looked like he could start based on today's performance. That has to be a superior option to starting Steven Johnson in AA already
2006-05-08 22:50:41
349.   Jon Weisman
347 - At this point, it would be a relief. Go for it.
2006-05-08 22:55:24
350.   Uncle Miltie
I can minimize it. The suns can't play defense. My grandma shoots 18 of 22 against them.
Sure. I'd love to see how many guys have shot 80+ % from the field taking a minimum of 20 shots (in NBA playoffs history), especially recently when players started playing defense. I don't think Brand had any dunks or layups in the game. Those were all jumpshots which makes it even more impressive. Still the Clippers lost, so Brand's great performance doesn't mean quite as much.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-05-08 22:57:45
351.   caseybarker
South Park is the most relevant social commentary out there.
2006-05-08 22:58:14
352.   confucius
Where is Kaz Ishii this year? Is he in the mets minor league system somewhere?
2006-05-08 22:59:11
353.   confucius
351. Family Guy is a close second.
2006-05-08 22:59:55
354.   natepurcell
I would like to see carlos alverez try his thing at starting pitching. his stuff isnt really meant for the bullpen. meaning, he doesnt have the blazing fb that teams look for in short inning relievers.

I also wouldnt mind seeing what steven johnson could do in his start. Johnson can replace hanrahan and alverez can replace orenduff. Too bad Elbert is struggling with his control at vero or else i would be tempted to move him up.

king, have you been following up a bit on the draft this year?

2006-05-08 23:00:11
355.   regfairfield
Back with Yakalut I believe.
2006-05-08 23:00:19
356.   natepurcell

ishii is back home pitching in japan.

2006-05-08 23:01:06
357.   confucius
350. You're right, 18 of 22 is an accomplishment regardless of the opponent. It just would have been more impressive had he done it against san antonio or detriot.
2006-05-08 23:01:19
358.   trainwreck
Penn and Tellers show is up there too. Penn and Trey Parker are real good friends. Penn and Tellers show was unable to do a show on scientology because Showtime did not want to be sued, so Trey Parker did it for him and the rest is history.
2006-05-08 23:01:48
359.   confucius
The dodgers shouldn't have to pay him then.
2006-05-08 23:02:29
360.   Andrew Shimmin
IT'S A TRAP! We all know what a hot-head Jon is, how he bans people at the drop of a hat, and shouts and shouts. . . He's flushing you out in to the open--to the field of slaughter!
2006-05-08 23:02:44
361.   underdog
David Blaine, hah - The Colbert Report (both "t's" silent) covered that tonight. Quite amusing. I guess Blaine said he has "a catheter in case I have to go #1, and that's all I plan on having to do while I'm in here" or something like that. Not much commentary needed to be added, except Colbert ended his with how this will prove beyond any doubt that human beings can and will... watch anything on TV.
2006-05-08 23:03:22
362.   confucius
358. I've heard good things, but i don't have showtime.
2006-05-08 23:03:45
363.   Andrew Shimmin
I'll stop helping, now.
2006-05-08 23:04:29
364.   caseybarker
Ahh, the insightful Dugong.
2006-05-08 23:04:36
365.   underdog
354 Did you mean Blake Johnson? I assumed so...
2006-05-08 23:04:53
366.   Bob Timmermann
Kaz Ishii is now 1-3 with a 3.19 ERA for the Tokyo Yakult Swallows, 26 Ks and 8 BBs in 31 IP.

Yakult is 11-18 and 9 1/2 games out of first and in fifth.

Yokohama, no doubt devastated by the loss of Takashi Saito, is in last at 8-20. Yokohama has a team ERA of over 6.

2006-05-08 23:04:59
367.   confucius
361. Saw that. Hilarious!
2006-05-08 23:07:11
368.   natepurcell
seriously though, how do you hold your breath under water for 7 minutes? thats still insane.
2006-05-08 23:08:12
369.   natepurcell
Did you mean Blake Johnson? I assumed so...

no, steven johnson. the 18 yr old 2005 draftee.

2006-05-08 23:08:17
370.   confucius
some guy in germany did it for 8:58.
2006-05-08 23:10:25
371.   trainwreck
Did he really do it, or was it a trick? I think it was a trick and he purposely failed so people would think he really tried to do it. That is my totally un-substantiated theory.
2006-05-08 23:11:23
372.   the OZ
349 Since it's been a weird day around here, Jon, I'll say this before getting back to my reading:

I had started building my own Dodgers site in early 2004. Bought a cool domain, I wrote a few things, worked hard on layouts and content; coded it all myself. I was sort of proud.

Then I found Dodger Thoughts.

I gave up trying to make my own site immediately. I took everything down, because I was so amazed by the quality of this site and (1) could not ever hope to match it (2) would rather devote my time to reading and posting at DT than trying to build something that would only be a faint shadow of what you've done here.

Sort of like when you go to play pickup basketball at UCLA's Wooden Center and are matched up against Alfred Aboya. Then you find another court to play on, while admiring the huge Cameroonian guy's game from a safe distance where you aren't getting dunked on.

2006-05-08 23:43:21
373.   ToyCannon
CLipper/Sun was great even if we were on the short end. EB was as good as you can be and even though the Clippers playoff records are nothing to speak of right now, in 5 years after they have been in them every year they will mean something. We don't have the Laker legacy but we will build one. We may not get out of the 2nd round but the future is very bright and I'd rather be rooting for the classiest player in the NBA then the best. If Kobe had shot 18/22 it would be front page blah blah for two weeks but since he's never come close to that kind of playoff game it is a moot point.
2006-05-09 00:01:38
374.   ToyCannon
I see my man, D Young is starting to heat up. I've told everyone that he would be the best hitter in Vegas by July and I hope he proves me true.

That was a good pitcher the Suns knocked around today. Everyone is hitting but Laroche. Could be time to move Aybar to 2nd and Guzman to 3b at Vegas.

2006-05-09 00:13:31
375.   jasonungar05
In the words of Jack Bauer....

I am handing over the controls of the plane to you. Land it now. Land it now.

(should be in all caps for YELLING)

2006-05-09 08:36:50
376.   underdog
Hey speaking of UCLA basketball, did anyone see that UCSB had signed Mbah a Moute's twin brother to play for them next season? He's supposedly a similar mix of a little raw but talented with lots of potential. I think there's another UCSB fan on the site here somewhere... thought this was pretty cool.
2006-05-09 08:47:53
377.   underdog
369 Ahhh. Thanks. Had forgotten all about him.
2006-05-09 08:56:05
378.   blue22
376 - UCSB class of '97 here. I'm not sure I count as a "fan" per se (haven't followed them wholeheartedly since I left), but I did see them knock Long Beach around last year at the Pyramid. Me and my buddy were outnumbered by LBSU fans about 2000 to 2.
2006-05-09 09:05:49
379.   blue22
376 - Anyway, cool news about Mbah a Moute. Hopefully he ends up being more successful than Gary Payton's brother.
2006-05-09 09:33:13
380.   Blu2
I sent an email to Ken Gurnick and he surprised me with an answer. My suggestion was for Little to get more offense in the lineup when he rests Kent by having Mueller play second and Saenz play third. That way we can get Saenz in the game 3 days a week. Ken's response was that Mueller wasn't capable of playing second at this stage of his career. Bullhockey!!! Mueller can probably play it better than Kent and possibly better than Robles or Martinez. We're talking one day a week here. Are there any baseball writers who are capable of thinking for themselves? Everuyone I know is a 'houseman', just like most of the broadcasters. They must use "1984" as a training manual...
2006-05-09 09:51:40
381.   Xeifrank
376,378: I was a Gaucho during the Conner Henry and Brian Shaw years. We knocked off UNLV twice in one season and they may have only had 2 or 3 losses heading into the NCAA tourney that year. We were the original Thunderdome crazies. Gaucho fans were great at taunting Tarkanian. vr, Xei
2006-05-09 09:53:22
382.   Vishal
[380] there are baseball writers who are capable of thinking, but ken gurnick is not one of them. interesting that he wrote you back; i've written him a couple times and he didn't bother with a response. i've given up on him though; his analyses leave much to be desired.
2006-05-09 09:54:50
383.   regfairfield
Bill Mueller is an atrocious second baseman with a carrer 83 rate2 (albeit in only 47 games). By comparision, Soriano has a 93.

There's also the fact that Saenz isn't great at third(95 rate2), he probably can't handle playing three times a week, and he can't really hit righties.

2006-05-09 10:04:43
384.   blue22
383 - Saenz also dropped his OPS by 100 points post-AS break (presumably) due to Tracy force-feeding him into the lineup.
2006-05-09 10:37:04
385.   ToyCannon
That would be a BUGLY defense for a whole game. I could see it in an emergency but that would be about it. Wouldn't count on any DP from that group.

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